Looky Likey wrote: Just seems like another cash grab to me, because you can already play as your legion using the default legion rules, what really makes a legion standout is the fluffy units like a Primarch and if these aren't there then what is the point? Are there really that many people who haven't started DA, WS, and BA who would if given an incomplete set of rules for their army? Models and upgrade kits I get, but rules?
I'm one, and a friend of mine is another. It's the Legion rules that define how the army plays, Primarchs and special units just help build on the Legion's character. I was waiting to see the UM rules before deciding if I wanted to take the plunge in another HH army, and my friend is waiting on the BA rules to decide between BA or IF.
Looky Likey wrote: Just seems like another cash grab to me, because you can already play as your legion using the default legion rules, what really makes a legion standout is the fluffy units like a Primarch and if these aren't there then what is the point? Are there really that many people who haven't started DA, WS, and BA who would if given an incomplete set of rules for their army? Models and upgrade kits I get, but rules?
I'm one, and a friend of mine is another. It's the Legion rules that define how the army plays, Primarchs and special units just help build on the Legion's character. I was waiting to see the UM rules before deciding if I wanted to take the plunge in another HH army, and my friend is waiting on the BA rules to decide between BA or IF.
I just struggle with that because the combination of one of the two named characters for UM and the Damocles Rhino transform how the army can be used, it makes the alpha strike from DS godly. I'm sure it isn't the only combo that only works because of the named characters. You are only going to get half of the story, and a playable 30k army is at least 2k if not 3k, a sizable investment.
-Shrike- wrote: Aw, yeah. Hopefully they bring back some of the other cool things they used to make, like that Abaddon model.
Or Tyranid terrain. Although I will admit dakka has some nice tutorials on making your own.
I have capillary towers, but not the spore chimney. I wanted one, but they went out of stock before I even knew that FW was discontinuing their terrain.
Looky Likey wrote: Just seems like another cash grab to me, because you can already play as your legion using the default legion rules, what really makes a legion standout is the fluffy units like a Primarch and if these aren't there then what is the point? Are there really that many people who haven't started DA, WS, and BA who would if given an incomplete set of rules for their army? Models and upgrade kits I get, but rules?
I'm one, and a friend of mine is another. It's the Legion rules that define how the army plays, Primarchs and special units just help build on the Legion's character. I was waiting to see the UM rules before deciding if I wanted to take the plunge in another HH army, and my friend is waiting on the BA rules to decide between BA or IF.
Yeah, I think the legion-specific rites of war in particular add a ton of character. The Berzerker rite of war is what makes WE look and play like WE, much moreso than a unit of Red Butchers dropped into a standard legion.
And a "cash grab"? God forbid a for-profit company wants to sell stuff, but regardless, in this case I think it's a *great* thing that they're throwing some bones to people interested in those other legions that aren't getting their full treatment for a while.
FW has been making some real efforts to allow more people to play 30K. The militia/warp cult list is an excellent example. Plenty of 40KIG/AM players can cobble something together for 30K using that army list. That's awesome.
Anyway, it's good to see that the Chaos Knight bits are available separately. I'm kicking around the idea of using elements of my nascent 30K WE in a 40K Daemonkin army down the road. A Chaos Knight of Khorne might be a really good fit.
The Legion rules and rite of wars is more were the flavor comes from. Iron warriors and imperial fists are all about their unquie rite of war. Not really the named chars.
I've been waiting for the dark angel rules myself.
Lockark wrote: The Legion rules and rite of wars is more were the flavor comes from. Iron warriors and imperial fists are all about their unquie rite of war. Not really the named chars.
Totally agree, and for the most part...FW has really nailed it.
Yeah, the special Characters are nice, and the Legion specific units, but for the most part, the Legion units are an honour guard type unit, and some unit that fits into their Rite of War, and don't drastically change the way the army plays (the Damocles is technically a Legion list addition- Ultras just get more access to them than other Legions).
The Legion rules however really define the flavour of the force for most Legions- I would be pretty annoyed if I had made an Iron Hands HH era biker force only to find that is illegal under their Legion rules.
I am building a small IF force, and the Legion rules have definitely shaped it- there would be much more volkite present if the IF rules didn't favour bolt-weapons. As it is, I decided twin-linked, BS5 combi-bolters would be better for the points on my Terminators.
I'm assuming the Legion Rules will include Legion specific wargear upgrades, seeing as they usually do not have models anyway, unless they are represented easily using the existing FW and GW range.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Meh. Looks decent and nurgly, but the FWGUO is a classic. And we can use the lottkin model for a large plastic option now too. I'd rather they skipped this and gave Slaanesh and/or Tzeentch some attention. When will they get their Daemon Prince + Herald kit like Khorne and Nurlge have had forever now?
Pretty much my reaction. It's a lovely model, and if I had a nurgle army I might get it at some point, but that's now the 17th Nurgle product made by FW versus one each for Tzeentch and Slaanesh.
Ehh, in terms of the knight I was more interested in the rules rather than the model itself. Hell, why would I pass such a delicious modelling opportunity!
Panic wrote: Yeah,
Hoping for chaos knight upgrade kits.
I have a few unbuilt Paladins.
Panic...
Now that we have official rules for Chaos Knights, you could always convert your own! That's the route I and many others went down, and it ends up giving a unique, yet good-looking final product!
Chaos-Knight.pdf wrote:some of these hideously twisted machines are host not to scion pilots, but to Daemon-things, the flesh of the man or woman within consumed or overcome with the raw power of the Warp
They do, which is why they can be consistently awesome despite being attached to GW. They're essentially a GW design team with their own store and product lines.
The Forge World Open Day is always a great chance to get a look at the latest work from the Forge World Studio, including what the designers, artists and writers are working on right now. This year the team were on hand to chat to everyone about how they work and the stages of design they go through. If you didn’t make it this year make sure you keep an eye out for tickets for our next event!
Mharaid and Rachel from the Forge World art team were working on their latest projects.
Blake walked hobbyists through the huge new tank he’s working on.
Alan Bligh talked about upcoming Forge World books that’ll soon be rolling off the presses.
Bronzefists42 wrote: People bring up "fw is run by GeeDubs as well!" But it's very obvious they have a LOT of personal autonomy.
from FW site
THE FORGE WORLD COMPANY
Q1. IS FORGE WORLD PART OF GAMES WORKSHOP.
A1. Yes, but we operate as a small (but perfectly formed) separate division from the company that makes and sells the main Games Workshop range of products. We are not connected with the US company that used the same name many years back for production of resin Warhammer 40,000 vehicles under licence.
In terms of the Chaos Knight, I do think it's a shame how we only have rules for the original two knights. I have a feeling we'll see rules/models for the other three later on though.
Disciple of Fate wrote: The Chaos Knight rules are disappointing, Tzeentch being a joke, rerolls to hit on blast weapons (stubber aside), Soul Blaze, really?
Yeah, that sounds like a oversight. Could make sense if they release rules for a Chaos Knight Warden/Crusader though. Also keep in mind these are experimental rules and will probably change when implemented in whatever IA book they end up in.
Disciple of Fate wrote: The Chaos Knight rules are disappointing, Tzeentch being a joke, rerolls to hit on blast weapons (stubber aside), Soul Blaze, really?
Yeah, that sounds like a oversight. Could make sense if they release rules for a Chaos Knight Warden/Crusader though. Also keep in mind these are experimental rules and will probably change when implemented in whatever IA book they end up in.
I hope they do their own variants rather than just slap spiky bits on the current ones.
In any regards, remember that with Blast weapons if you choose to reroll--you have to reroll everything. So getting a single "1" with a Scatter could allow you to reroll and potentially get a Hit instead...or if you had Hit something but wanted it to Scatter you can try again.
Just my own opinion there, considering that things like the Warp Spiders and their rule for being targeted do exist.
Disciple of Fate wrote: The Chaos Knight rules are disappointing, Tzeentch being a joke, rerolls to hit on blast weapons (stubber aside), Soul Blaze, really?
Yeah, that sounds like a oversight. Could make sense if they release rules for a Chaos Knight Warden/Crusader though. Also keep in mind these are experimental rules and will probably change when implemented in whatever IA book they end up in.
I hope they do their own variants rather than just slap spiky bits on the current ones.
In any regards, remember that with Blast weapons if you choose to reroll--you have to reroll everything. So getting a single "1" with a Scatter could allow you to reroll and potentially get a Hit instead...or if you had Hit something but wanted it to Scatter you can try again.
Just my own opinion there, considering that things like the Warp Spiders and their rule for being targeted do exist.
Still, for the amount of points (65) you would expect something better than that and soul blaze, why not just a +1-2 on the scatter roll? With a knight going into CC other marks are much better, bit expensive piece of shooting equipment with the mediocre mark of Tzeentch. Hope they will get more variants, like a shooty one for the mark of Tzeentch.
Well, wouldn't the "Daemon of" rule apply like it does int he codices? Such as Nurgle also giving Shrouded and S&P, and Tzeentch being able to reroll saving throws of 1?
Kepora wrote: Well, wouldn't the "Daemon of" rule apply like it does int he codices? Such as Nurgle also giving Shrouded and S&P, and Tzeentch being able to reroll saving throws of 1?
That was also my assumption, hence the counts as a daemon blurb.
I assumed no, because you count as "Daemon aligned with Nurgle" not a Daemon of Nurgle. Basically you gain some benefit from the warpstorm table in regards to the go you're aligned with but never says you're a Daemon of (Insert God)
Disciple of Fate wrote: The Chaos Knight rules are disappointing, Tzeentch being a joke, rerolls to hit on blast weapons (stubber aside), Soul Blaze, really?
Yeah, that sounds like a oversight. Could make sense if they release rules for a Chaos Knight Warden/Crusader though. Also keep in mind these are experimental rules and will probably change when implemented in whatever IA book they end up in.
The Tzeentch rule is essentially the exact same as the ones that the Chaos Reaver and Warhound get in IA 13: Savior of CSM, don't expect much in the way of change there.
No change for the Lord of Change? Surely you jest, sir!
Also, the Nurgle thingy isn't as good as some other Nurgle thingies, but it is certainly Nurgle!
The Chaos Knight is OK. Not thrilled with it, but HURRAY! for those that wanted a Chaos Knight! Now put your money where you're bitching was and buy 1 or 5!
Melcavuk wrote: I assumed no, because you count as "Daemon aligned with Nurgle" not a Daemon of Nurgle. Basically you gain some benefit from the warpstorm table in regards to the go you're aligned with but never says you're a Daemon of (Insert God)
This is correct. There are several daemon engines that work this way. I personally emailed them WRT the Decimator, and was told the above, and I know I'm not the only one to ask and be given the same response.
What's weird is that they've obviously been asked to clarify this on several occasions (including myself and I've encountered two other posters who have done so on Dakka) yet haven't changed the wording at all.
Come to think, when are we getting a FAQ on the fifth Horus Heresy book? The Militia army list is a bit of a mess, especially with the Rogue Psyker entry not having a point cost listed.
BrookM wrote: Come to think, when are we getting a FAQ on the fifth Horus Heresy book? The Militia army list is a bit of a mess, especially with the Rogue Psyker entry not having a point cost listed.
I have no idea who can actually justify buying this.
People with plenty of disposable income, or those who saved specifically for it.
to each his own I spose
Not sure what your point is? If someone wants a very nice display piece for their army, a Warlord fills that niche perfectly. Some people have a well-paying job that can afford to drop a couple grand on their hobby, and others save over time for the model.
The war lord is more of a modleing/display project then something you buy for gameing. People who use to play epic bassicly gushing over building/painting such a large scale modle of a unit from that game.
It totally makes sence why some people would want it so bad. Personally I don't feel a need or want to tackle something like that just for it to become a glorified dust collector. But to each their own.
angelofvengeance wrote: Yeah I think he is, but that's because he gets Ferrus Manus' Forgebreaker as a gift from Horus later on, so it seems right that they should model him with it.
He got the hammer from Fulgrim after he won the duel with Ferrus Manus, the forger of the hammer, Ferrus made Fulgrims sword.
Just noticed that the full print of the cover for the new HH novel has Skitarii, one of which is armed with an arc maul, being the combatants facing the loyalist Marines. They look identical to their 40k counterparts. Personally, although BL covers are not the best source of fluff, I think this bodes well for the inclusion of Skitarii plastics into the HH ruleset.
I recall someone emailed forge world asking if the dune crawler and some other ad mec gear was around during the heresy and if we will be seeing rules for them.
He got back a kinda vague email saying yes they were and sujested to use the current 40k rules for now if you wish to make a home brew list to represent them.
The ad mec red book might have something when it comes out?
The ad mec red book might have something when it comes out?
No Skitarii in Mechanicum Red Book, the only completely new additions to that from what people saw at the open day were the Ordinatus & new Mechanicum LR entry. I think we'll wait until Mars to see Skitarii get full coverage
MacMuckles wrote:So what is the distinction between skitarii and tech-thralls?
Skitarri are a more elite soldier the template of which originates from mars and were adopted by other Forgeworld. Tech-thralls are a less advance soldier and closer to servitors in terms of their construction.
Skitarri are to Tech-thralls what Storm Troopers are to Imperial Guard... In both cases you have a more advance elite troop that are utilized by an overarching authority as opposed to a more mundane form of disposable troop.
The ad mec red book might have something when it comes out?
No Skitarii in Mechanicum Red Book, the only completely new additions to that from what people saw at the open day were the Ordinatus & new Mechanicum LR entry. I think we'll wait until Mars to see Skitarii get full coverage
What sort of changes have been made to the Mechanicum's LR entry?
angelofvengeance wrote: Yeah I think he is, but that's because he gets Ferrus Manus' Forgebreaker as a gift from Horus later on, so it seems right that they should model him with it.
He got the hammer from Fulgrim after he won the duel with Ferrus Manus, the forger of the hammer, Ferrus made Fulgrims sword.
No, Fulgrim gave it to Horus when he gave him Ferrus' head, and Horus then gave it to Perturabo.
ImAGeek wrote: I want everything, but £60 is ridiculously expensive for 5 marines.
They seem to have been priced proporationally more than normal FW marines with the full upgrade kit of heads, torsos, pauldrons and weapons as they work out at about £90 for 10. At least they come with nearly all the options, except the hardest one to buy seperately, the banner that is needed if you take them as Honor Guard. Not happy that they have fixed torsos, but I've still gone in for two sets as I want that Honor Guard for Gulliman. I'm hoping we see the UM Terminators soon, I want to get my company finished.
Haighus wrote: Just noticed that the full print of the cover for the new HH novel has Skitarii, one of which is armed with an arc maul, being the combatants facing the loyalist Marines. They look identical to their 40k counterparts. Personally, although BL covers are not the best source of fluff, I think this bodes well for the inclusion of Skitarii plastics into the HH ruleset.
Which is a real shame, frankly, as FW previously mentioned that 30K Skitarii would come with the Mars book and would be "nothing like" 40K Skitarii - I was very much hoping we'd get models of the more elite "cyber-barbarian" style of Skitarii from the 30K range. People could already use the models as Adsecularis.
Hopefully the BL novel is just another example of GW-main's present obsession with only allowing art of models that actually exist(ie they're terrified of basing cover art on any FW Skitarii concepts that might exist in case a third party makes models of them first), rather than an indication the models will be shoehorned into 30K.
EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.
The Word Bearers though....woah. Not sure what's going on with the character's left arm, but hot-damn those minis make me wish FW had decided to go truescale with the whole HH range.
EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.
Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.
The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.
While I love nearly everything in the FW Character Series and generic line infantry (ie Armour Mark sets), I don't think many of the Legion specific units have really hit the 'Yay' buttons for me, and IMHO come off no better in quality than some of the 3rd party bits out there.
As an Ultra player I can't say I'm a fan of any of the legion upgrades we have received excluding the shield bits on these new guys - not the bolter component though - that magazine makes me shudder.
Looking back through the whole Legion range, the last Legion specific unit I liked was the Ghal Vorbak, and before that some of the original World Eaters stuff. It all went a bit down hill in what I was looking for from FW when they started rushing out the torso and helmet upgrades, and then pretty much everything from the Iron Hands onwards.
Just my view and 2 cents on the whole range as it stands.
EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.
Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.
The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.
You're not sure what I'm on about, then you describe exactly what I'm on about?
Putting the hand further back on the shield and "securing" it to the wrist(look at the parts breakdown pic) creates a weak point, because if an enemy strikes the opposite outer edge of the shield the force of their blow on the wrist is going to be magnified by mechanical advantage. The Combat Shield is locked directly to the forearm and the pistol is gripped in the hand, while in this case the bolter is part of the shield and the whole assemblage is secured to the arm using some kind of brace. I feel like I'm not explaining this well, so I did a crappy MSPaint job to show what I mean(problem areas marked in red);
I know it's nitpickery, but wee detail issues like that are a personal bugbear. EDIT: And further, even if a blow to the outside edge doesn't cause the arm brace to shear off and break the wrist, it's still going to act as a lever on the bearer's elbow joint, making it much easier to force the shield into their body and restrict use of the CCW arm.
EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.
Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.
The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.
You're not sure what I'm on about, then you describe exactly what I'm on about?
Putting the hand further back on the shield and "securing" it to the wrist(look at the parts breakdown pic) creates a weak point, because if an enemy strikes the opposite outer edge of the shield the force of their blow on the wrist is going to be magnified by mechanical advantage. The Combat Shield is locked directly to the forearm and the pistol is gripped in the hand, while in this case the bolter is part of the shield and the whole assemblage is secured to the arm using some kind of brace. I feel like I'm not explaining this well, so I did a crappy MSPaint job to show what I mean(problem areas marked in red);
I know it's nitpickery, but wee detail issues like that are a personal bugbear. EDIT: And further, even if a blow to the outside edge doesn't cause the arm brace to shear off and break the wrist, it's still going to act as a lever on the bearer's elbow joint, making it much easier to force the shield into their body and restrict use of the CCW arm.
I think this is why I'm not sure what you're on about, I think you're mistaken about a few things.
First the combat shield and this shield look identical (from what we can see) in that the shield is attached to both the gun and the forearm. The pistol for the combat shield is fully integrated with the shield and it's all braced to the forearm:
You can see where the brace leading to the forearm is built into the back of the gun, and the magazine (and less clearly in this picture, the gun itself) are attached to the shield. I just painted one of these like a month ago, so I'm pretty confident on this. We don't have a good angle on these new shields, but they seem the same. The bolter is definitely attached to the back of the shield and the shield appears strapped around the forearm as well. Nothing is supported solely by their wrist.
Second, your diagram shows the exact opposite of what you're trying to say. In your version of the combat shield (which is incorrect anyway) hitting the muzzle of the pistol would put a load on their wrist. In the lower part of the diagram, hitting the muzzle or the shield wouldn't put a load on the wrist. The shield is much stiffer and stronger than the wrist joint, so it's going to transfer pretty much the entire load to their forearm. The wrist shouldn't be under load regardless of where you hit the shield, so long as the shield is still firmly attached to the forearm (and if we're talking a load great enough to completely break the shield's connection to their forearm, I think you have much bigger problems).
You're right that the larger moment arm from the shield/gun combination sticking out so far is going to put more torque on their elbow joint, and the whole thing is going to be slightly awkward to use due to its size, but that's neither here nor there as far as the wrist stuff goes.
Damn, I really would go out and start a UM army right now if they were a tad cheaper, Really liking the new character as well, was hoping those blade slaves would look awesome and they do not disappoint.
I think they will manage ok with those shields seeing as they have massive over sized ceramite reinforced super human wrists !
Rayvon wrote: Damn, I really would go out and start a UM army right now if they were a tad cheaper, Really liking the new character as well, was hoping those blade slaves would look awesome and they do not disappoint.
I think they will manage ok with those shields seeing as they have massive over sized ceramite reinforced super human wrists !
Man those Ultramarines are some of the best looking I've ever seen. Why oh why aren't they Imperial Fist so I can make an Crimson Fist honour guard unit out of em? /cry
EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.
Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.
The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.
You're not sure what I'm on about, then you describe exactly what I'm on about?
Putting the hand further back on the shield and "securing" it to the wrist(look at the parts breakdown pic) creates a weak point, because if an enemy strikes the opposite outer edge of the shield the force of their blow on the wrist is going to be magnified by mechanical advantage. The Combat Shield is locked directly to the forearm and the pistol is gripped in the hand, while in this case the bolter is part of the shield and the whole assemblage is secured to the arm using some kind of brace. I feel like I'm not explaining this well, so I did a crappy MSPaint job to show what I mean(problem areas marked in red);
I know it's nitpickery, but wee detail issues like that are a personal bugbear. EDIT: And further, even if a blow to the outside edge doesn't cause the arm brace to shear off and break the wrist, it's still going to act as a lever on the bearer's elbow joint, making it much easier to force the shield into their body and restrict use of the CCW arm.
If you look at it you can see their forearms are strapped to the shield so they would not be supporting it just by a wrist.
Zaph wrote: Man those Ultramarines are some of the best looking I've ever seen. Why oh why aren't they Imperial Fist so I can make an Crimson Fist honour guard unit out of em? /cry
You can. We have TWO of our own units from FW. The Phalanx Warder Squad.
Hmmm, the plasma pistols the Blade Slaves are carrying look like customised versions of the plastic plasma pistols in 40k kits, rather than the resin ones FW usually models onto HH models (the actual names for the plasma pistol marks escapes me). I suspected that GW style plasma pistols would be around in the HH, as plasma tech is ancient, but this confirms it for me.
The bolt pistols in the Suzerain shields are a nice touch IMO, although they would have to break the shield wall to fire.
Ok, so now waiting for a Godwyn pattern boltgun to appear in any form more official than a single Death Guard marine in the background pictures to Book 1 now... A Character series model or one of the art work pictures of Marines showing their equipment with a short blurb of information would be enough confirmation.
You call the great Zardu Layak a mere 'standard bearer'?
How dare thee!
I don't play WB, but he seems like a great one-stop-shop in HQ -- gives you your diabolist, bonus on dark channelling rolls, level 2 psyker, access to daemon allies, *malefic daemonlogy*, and buffs from the banner. Seems PDG to me.
Not sure about the Blade-Slaves. Great profile, but there are only 2 of them, and do you want to get Zardu stuck in CC?
Those Invictari are crazy expensive like. Why are they nearly twice the cost of Palatine blades and somehow more expensive than the terminators by £15? .
They also look really ugly and cartoony. Plus the mark 2 plate doesn't suit the Ultra (whose upgrade kits are all for Mark 4 marines) and it doesn't suit an ornate unit; crusade armor is basically something Tony Stark made in the desert. Its not fine if you're supposed to be the chosen of Gulliman.
It is MkIII yeah, which suits an honour guard type unit, being the most heavily armoured. MkIII armour isn't 'basically something Tony Stark made in the desert' (nor is MkII) and it can be as ornate as MkIV.
Goatmoerser wrote: Also MK III is (as already mentioned) the most heavily armoured pattern thus a good choice for breacher siege squads with ablative shields.
The most heavy FRONTAL armor. Thinned down the rear, though.
Goatmoerser wrote: Also MK III is (as already mentioned) the most heavily armoured pattern thus a good choice for breacher siege squads with ablative shields.
The most heavy FRONTAL armor. Thinned down the rear, though.
No thinner than MkII, seeing as it's basically just MkII with extra armour on the front. When you look at the back of the MkIII model legs, you can see the MkII armour underneath.
Goatmoerser wrote: Also MK III is (as already mentioned) the most heavily armoured pattern thus a good choice for breacher siege squads with ablative shields.
The most heavy FRONTAL armor. Thinned down the rear, though.
No thinner than MkII, seeing as it's basically just MkII with extra armour on the front. When you look at the back of the MkIII model legs, you can see the MkII armour underneath.
While the most recent descriptions I'm aware of (the cards in the limited SM codex recently released) could read that way, the original descriptions in my old WH40K Compilation seem pretty clear that rear armor IS thinner than on Mk II.
"Mark 3 therefore placed considerable emphasis on frontal protection, while the rear armoured plates were lightened to compensate"
I'd actually be happier with a retcon to the Mk III being equal on the back to MK II and uparmored on the front, given how many Mk III suits came in my Invasion Force. I'm similarly happy that the aforementioned cards included a retcon to the Mk II and III to state that the helmets had limited mobility, rather than the old descriptions of fixed forward facing helmets.
Ashiraya wrote: The wh40k compilation is ancient and most likely it was just retconned.
The wording of the most recent armor description for Mk III could be read either way. "The MkIII suit featured a significant increase to the durability of its frontal armour, with the inclusion of ablative plates and a thicker subsurface layer of anti-ballistic cladding than that seen in any other mark of power armour. This resilience came at the expense of rear armour, the backplates of the MkIII suit being made thinner and more lightweight to offset the burden of its frontal plating."
Could be saying that the backplates were made thinner than the front, or that the backplates were made thinner than previous suits, could go either way, although to me it reads as thinner than previous marks of armor.
Ashiraya wrote: The wh40k compilation is ancient and most likely it was just retconned.
The wording of the most recent armor description for Mk III could be read either way. "The MkIII suit featured a significant increase to the durability of its frontal armour, with the inclusion of ablative plates and a thicker subsurface layer of anti-ballistic cladding than that seen in any other mark of power armour. This resilience came at the expense of rear armour, the backplates of the MkIII suit being made thinner and more lightweight to offset the burden of its frontal plating."
Could be saying that the backplates were made thinner than the front, or that the backplates were made thinner than previous suits, could go either way, although to me it reads as thinner than previous marks of armor.
It’s not that hard to find something to get excited about when you’re in the Forge World Studio. I make some effort to keep my outbursts of “That’s awesome!” internal, but I fail on a pretty regular basis. Last week saw me disturbing the peace of the Forge World design team again when I came across what looks like a new addition for Mechanicum armies, and if you’ve seen the latest Horus Heresy book from Black Library, Cybernetica, you’ll know the Mechanicum could do with all the support they can get!
There are a lot of servo-arms on display here
Not only that but it looks like Space Marine vehicles are getting some new upgrades soon...
A heavy flamer and twin-linked bolter, perfect for dealing with those xenos hordes
One of the more recent Bulletins included a photo of the huge Titan game played at this year’s Forge World Open Day. As so many of you have asked, here’s another look at all the Titans that took part, all lovingly painted by the Forge World Studio team.
If your army ever faces this... call for reinforcements, lots of them!
That’s all from me for now. Make sure you check back soon for more from the Forge World Studio.
Interesting they have the Missile pods painted up on the Warlord, but they aren't available yet. Wonder if they are waiting on other guns and head options to do a wave two style release.
Ah, yes Kronk. Sorry. In HH the Rhino and other tanks can take a heavy weapon as a pintlemount if you dont want the more discreet twl. bolter or combi-bolter and have 15pts to spare.
I havn't played a game of regular 40k in.. 4 years.. gosh, so I sometimes forget that some people are not intimately familiar with the Legion Armylist and it's options.
But seriously, regular 40K? why would you? who does that? there is the lovely Horus Heresy you can play instead. or Inquisimunda.
Ah, yes Kronk. Sorry. In HH the Rhino and other tanks can take a heavy weapon as a pintlemount if you dont want the more discreet twl. bolter or combi-bolter and have 15pts to spare.
I havn't played a game of regular 40k in.. 4 years.. gosh, so I sometimes forget that some people are not intimately familiar with the Legion Armylist and it's options.
But seriously, regular 40K? why would you? who does that? there is the lovely Horus Heresy you can play instead. or Inquisimunda.
I think Kronk is asking which book it's in. He's got a HH era Imp Fist army already(or at least in infancy), IIRC.
If i recall rhinos get acess to everything but the mutimelta. the mutimelta is on everything eals like vindi's, preds, land raiders, ect. If you could take them on rhinos they would be a no brainer compared to the other pintle mounts.
Lockark wrote: If i recall rhinos get acess to everything but the mutimelta. the mutimelta is on everything eals like vindi's, preds, land raiders, ect. If you could take them on rhinos they would be a no brainer compared to the other pintle mounts.
Eh not so much in 30k because there's quite a lot of Armoured Ceramite.
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Ah, yes Kronk. Sorry. In HH the Rhino and other tanks can take a heavy weapon as a pintlemount if you dont want the more discreet twl. bolter or combi-bolter and have 15pts to spare.
I havn't played a game of regular 40k in.. 4 years.. gosh, so I sometimes forget that some people are not intimately familiar with the Legion Armylist and it's options.
But seriously, regular 40K? why would you? who does that? there is the lovely Horus Heresy you can play instead. or Inquisimunda.
Because not all of us want to play Space Marines? I mean I like iron Warriors, but Tau Empire's what got me into the game.
Alpharius wrote: I hope FW eventually give us a "Great Crusade" book with all sorts of lovely Xenos options so that all of that player base can also join in...
Alpharius wrote: I hope FW eventually give us a "Great Crusade" book with all sorts of lovely Xenos options so that all of that player base can also join in...
I'm sure they'll get on it right after they finish (milking) the HH storyline in 2099.
Alpharius wrote: I hope FW eventually give us a "Great Crusade" book with all sorts of lovely Xenos options so that all of that player base can also join in...
There still won't be Tau though
With the warp, anything is possible. Perhaps there is some conservation of timespacemass and for each of the Dark Angel Fallen that got thrown into the future, some tau had to come back.
I think I mentioned this before but the militia list has so many options that it could easily be used to represent some human/xeno/both empire that the Great Crusade stumbles upon.
Alpharius wrote: I hope FW eventually give us a "Great Crusade" book with all sorts of lovely Xenos options so that all of that player base can also join in...
I'm sure they'll get on it right after they finish (milking) the HH storyline in 2099.
Alpharius wrote: I hope FW eventually give us a "Great Crusade" book with all sorts of lovely Xenos options so that all of that player base can also join in...
There still won't be Tau though
With the warp, anything is possible. Perhaps there is some conservation of timespacemass and for each of the Dark Angel Fallen that got thrown into the future, some tau had to come back.
There's nothing stopping people from using the Tau, Necron, Tyranid, etc. Codexes to represent any number of different races encountered during the Great Crusade. Orks and Eldar existed during that time, too.
The militia and cults list also allows for a lot of possibilities.
Lockark wrote: If i recall rhinos get acess to everything but the mutimelta. the mutimelta is on everything eals like vindi's, preds, land raiders, ect. If you could take them on rhinos they would be a no brainer compared to the other pintle mounts.
Eh not so much in 30k because there's quite a lot of Armoured Ceramite.
More for popping off a wound on termies, jet bikes, high toughness mechanicum constructs, etc
People also don't bother with ceramite on a lot of the lower av stuff, and even if they did the s8 of the multi melta is enough to threaten it with out the melta rule.
Other rhinos, land speeders, drop pods, etc.
The reason why you don't see much melta in 30k armies is because for the same cost plasma dose all of this better. Melta is only a good option if plasma is not on the list.
Solar Auxilia on the other hand doesn't have all that much access to melta weaponry to begin with. However, in my own local meta, the ability to give a Baneblade, Dracosan or Leman Russ Executioner armoured ceramite is good thing, because melta is everywhere yo!
The helmets are truly awersome ... sadly white is a pain to paint. Until some special WS units and characters are released, I will prioritize on other stuff ...
More top notch upgrade kits, those helmets in particular look awesome, cannot make my mind up which Legion to do now, I was waiting for the Wolves but always been a big white scars fan too, decisions decisions
Well, in other news, I think the retro/modified/whatever white scars logo looks pretty badass.
Do we have evidence on the Space Wolves? 'Cause I really like their original more stylized logo over the current one- has that one officially left the building, or is there hope the HH wolves have it?
Darth Bob wrote: I will not start White Scars. I will not start White Scars. I will not start White Scars....
I tried telling myself that about Alpha Legion for a while, but the forthcoming GW plastic HH Mk IV armor will undo my previous determination. If nothing else, the three HH armies I have in work, or plan to do, are all going to play VERY differently (Salamanders, Thousand Sons, and Alpha Legion).
Looky Likey wrote: I'm hoping the rules for adding random squads from other legions is in the next book as having one squad from each would scratch that inch for me.
Shattered Legions may be tackled in the next book, which may just offer this.
Is it possible that the Alpharius' rules suck so badly and he looses to every other Primarch because FW is planning to make Omegon miniature too? So two of them combined, making one "full" Primarch, would kick at least some arse?
I am still under the weather after apparently choosing the worst when it comes to combat (according to BL and now FW) legion. I need some hope.
Alpharius's rules don't "suck". He may not be the best choice for hot Primarch on Primarch action, but he still brings a lot to the table for his Legion.
Tannhauser42 wrote: He may not be the best choice for hot Primarch on Primarch action, but he still brings a lot to the table for his Legion.
Which is much more flavorful for Alpharius, anyways. It makes more sense for him to be focused around making his Legion more powerful rather than being a singularly powerful Primarch like Vulkan or Angron.
Indeed! All Characters so far for the Legion has a strong army/squad support element and are not just beatsticks.
Dynat gives you the boosts of a master of signals consul, good offensive speed in close quarters and is a very flexible close-combat fighter.
Exodus is the coolest character in the game so far, gives good squadboosts to your head-hunters / recon squad and will mow down enemy sergeants, Vexillia-bearers and Independent characters at a frightening pace.
Alpharius, well.. he brings possibly the best army boost of all the Primarchs and also, his rules are the funniest of them all.
Use them well and defeat your foe with synergetic bonuses and interlocking tactics rather than with brute force.
Indeed! All Characters so far for the Legion has a strong army/squad support element and are not just beatsticks.
Dynat gives you the boosts of a master of signals consul, good offensive speed in close quarters and is a very flexible close-combat fighter.
Exodus is the coolest character in the game so far, gives good squadboosts to your head-hunters / recon squad and will mow down enemy sergeants, Vexillia-bearers and Independent characters at a frightening pace.
Alpharius, well.. he brings possibly the best army boost of all the Primarchs and also, his rules are the funniest of them all.
Use them well and defeat your foe with synergetic bonuses and interlocking tactics rather than with brute force.
one piece at the time...
Yep, every time I look at the rules for Alpha Legion and for the characters they've given us, I get a giggle at the trollishness of what you can do.
Alpha Legion have extremely well designed rules that allow for a lot of creativity and flexibility. Taking enemy-specific units and picking from unique special rules allows for quite impressive combos, and together with various other abilities they possess (such as Alpharius, le master troll) they look like an amusingly entertaining army to play.
Forge World is well known for its big tanks and even bigger walkers, and if you’ve seen the Mars pattern Warlord Titan you’ll know exactly what I mean! This week I found something suitably huge nearing completion in the Forge World Studio, and this one certainly isn’t going to be fighting on behalf of the Imperium of Mankind. It looks much more concerned with bringing its enormous weapons to bear in the name of a completely different empire...
Annihilate your enemies for the Greater Good.
Speaking of towering war machines, Keith Robertson from the Forge World Studio has finished work on the latest addition to his Mechanicum army, a fantastic Questoris Knight Styrix. Its metallic red paint scheme looks awesome and really makes it stand out, Keith achieved this stunning colour using the Forge World Airbrush paint range.
Resplendent in the colours of the Mechanicum...
That’s all from me for now. Make sure you check back soon for more from the Forge World Studio.
That Mechanicum knight is very impressive. I guess they've probably painted it in a similar way to the Brass Scorpion of old, which did actually have a guide in one of their books (although I can't for the life of me remember which one... ).
The knight is literally a colour gradiant (black to grey or metallic black to metallic grey) with the new FW clear red applied over the top. Works a treat.
-Shrike- wrote: That Mechanicum knight is very impressive. I guess they've probably painted it in a similar way to the Brass Scorpion of old, which did actually have a guide in one of their books (although I can't for the life of me remember which one... ).
Tamiya clear colours (and I've had similar results with Minitaire ghost tints) airbrushed over a silver base. If you want some depth and texture, then spray blacks, Browns,golds or anything you like over the silver before applying the clear colour.
Mr Morden wrote: That Tau thing looks terrible :( Cool painted Knight
I agree it looks way ugly.
nothing elegant or futuristic about strapping more guns onto random spots. i would of liked it if like say the missile pods and burst cannons was actually integrated into the armor instead of tacked on.
The Ion cannons look like stock parts off a hh kit.
Mr Morden wrote: That Tau thing looks terrible :( Cool painted Knight
I agree it looks way ugly.
nothing elegant or futuristic about strapping more guns onto random spots. i would of liked it if like say the missile pods and burst cannons was actually integrated into the armor instead of tacked on.
The Burst Cannons, for all intents and purposes, are just tacked on. The little blurb that someone got from the sculptor a few months back specifically stated that the Burst Cannons are there for "close-in defense"--and that they would get to Overwatch, despite the suit being a Superheavy Walker.
bladeiai wrote: Has there been any word on how big the new Tau walker is exactly? I thought it was knight sized but the new picture makes it look huge to me...
bladeiai wrote: Has there been any word on how big the new Tau walker is exactly? I thought it was knight sized but the new picture makes it look huge to me...
Mr Morden wrote: That Tau thing looks terrible :( Cool painted Knight
I agree it looks way ugly.
nothing elegant or futuristic about strapping more guns onto random spots. i would of liked it if like say the missile pods and burst cannons was actually integrated into the armor instead of tacked on.
The Ion cannons look like stock parts off a hh kit.
The new Rail cannon design i like though.
Except that's how Tau weapons are on most craft and battlesuits - interchangeable weaponry and such on a universal coupling system. You know, quick refitting options between battles to better face their foes.
And FYI, that's how almost every single Ion weapon is designed - it's all the same tech, after all!
I like the big tau robot. It has a more mobile weapons platform look than the big and stompy look of the imperium and orks, or the giant anime fighting robot look of the eldar.
I see it is the broadside to the riptide's crisis suit. Also appreciate the smaller round heads by the shouldres and little view slits for the three tau pilots in the chest.
Makes it easier to believe there are pilots inside of the thing.
Mr Morden wrote: That Tau thing looks terrible :( Cool painted Knight
I agree it looks way ugly.
nothing elegant or futuristic about strapping more guns onto random spots. i would of liked it if like say the missile pods and burst cannons was actually integrated into the armor instead of tacked on.
The Ion cannons look like stock parts off a hh kit.
The new Rail cannon design i like though.
Except that's how Tau weapons are on most craft and battlesuits - interchangeable weaponry and such on a universal coupling system. You know, quick refitting options between battles to better face their foes.
And FYI, that's how almost every single Ion weapon is designed - it's all the same tech, after all!
I mean sculpting wise. it just looks like they tacked it on instead of it being a integral part of it. also really hate the 3 barrel look they are going for lately.
as well, while its true the crisis suit models look like they have a bunch of interchangeable equipment tacked on, i prefer the FW fist weapons far more, and the new Broadside weapons as they seem to be better integrated into the suit.
The old suits are ugly
which is why i think this one looks ugly from the chest down.
I think everything else looks steller though especially the big Rails.
bladeiai wrote: Has there been any word on how big the new Tau walker is exactly? I thought it was knight sized but the new picture makes it look huge to me...
In the open day thread, I posted this composite image where I took the base it is mounted on and tried to find the same base (from the onager) in a pic with a knight at roughly the same picture angle. I just kept resizing the titan till the base sizes matched up (see the half cut and paste on the base). Hope it helps.
Mr Morden wrote: That Tau thing looks terrible :( Cool painted Knight
I agree it looks way ugly.
I disagree so much that I could roll you both in glitter! That tau titan is glorious! I do agree though that the undernipple weapon mounts could use some work in becoming a bit more integrated into the body.
I saw it at the FW Open day, it really is massive as it is much broader across the shoulders than a Cerastus. It'll be a real center piece model for any Tau army that is heavy on suits.
OMG. That Tau monster titan thing is everything I ever wanted from a Robotech/Battletech mech.
That shoulder mounted weapon would make the SDF-1 jealous. And the chest weapons are awesome. The thing on the left arm looks like it could blow up an Imperial Knight from across the battlefield
<3
I... must... resist...
@warboss... ty for resizing that image to match bases. Very cool of you.
That titan is going to be a monster. And probably like $800.
Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
Because certain Tau players have filled in the gaps with their own made up fluff and are offended that GW isn't following it. There are three different things that are being argued unfortunately simultaneously about this titan (purely visual aesthetics aside) as if they were one thing. There is a difference between "tau don't use titans", "tau can't use titans", and "tau won't use titans". The first up until this product was unveiled was absolutely true; tau simply didn't use titans (or big robots before the riptide) simply because they weren't mentioned and we didn't have any products to buy. There was of course no real mention of WHY and some players decided to make up their own. "Tau can't use titans" and earlier "big robots" ironically only BECAME true with the riptide's fluff simply so the riptide could be the first exception to that just created fluff. They made up the tech reasons why PREVIOUSLY the tau didn't use bigger robots only when they came out with bigger robots. Then we come to "tau won't use titans" which is complete fanspank. Just because I take a sedan to work doesn't mean that I won't ever take a pickup truck and yet somehow tau currently using superheavy fliers became that they have some moral or tactical abhorence against using titans. It really is stupid but the three DIFFERENT issues have become one in the eyes of some veteran players.
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.
For anyone who likes anime mecha'esq stuff, the Tau mech is everything it should be (and since anime is inspiration to the tau, it is very fitting). you can just imagine that thing letting rip with all of it's weapons at once, decimating a whole battle line with one salvo.
I agree 100% with the comparison of it to a heavy weapons platform, as opposed to big & stompy like the Imperium and melee "robot" like Eldar. It looks like it's made to march in, plant it's feet, and blow away anyone dumb enough to stand against it.
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.
You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either
I hope this thing comes out in like 2 months. I'll have my Warlord paid off by then (and hopefully finished built and started painting) so I can grab this thing.
It's 1/3 Riptide, 1/3 Destroid Monster, and 1/3 GDI Juggernaut from Tiberian Sun: Firestorm.
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.
You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
I don't give a gak about it being a pseudo-titan, I just think it looks ridiculous and not at all fitting in with the Tau aesthetic/design philosophy, just like the Riptide and its variants.
It's also kind of lazy. We already have Tau in powered suits, then they made Tau in bigger powered suits (Riptide), then made two variants of that bigger powered suit, and now they're making an even bigger powered suit. It's like Centurions; "Space Marines are really popular, how can we capitalize on that? I know, let's put Space Marines inside of a bigger Space Marine!"
More power to the people who are feelin it, but I'd prefer like a giant Kroot Dragon or a Vespid Broodmother or something instead.
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
I don't give a gak about it being a pseudo-titan, I just think it looks ridiculous and not at all fitting in with the Tau aesthetic/design philosophy, just like the Riptide and its variants.
It's also kind of lazy. We already have Tau in powered suits, then they made Tau in bigger powered suits (Riptide), then made two variants of that bigger powered suit, and now they're making an even bigger powered suit. It's like Centurions; "Space Marines are really popular, how can we capitalize on that? I know, let's put Space Marines inside of a bigger Space Marine!"
More power to the people who are feelin it, but I'd prefer like a giant Kroot Dragon or a Vespid Broodmother or something instead.
Not liking the aesthetics is perfectly reasonable as that is an opinion and a personal judgement call and not spouting off fanmade "facts" as though they're official. Every FW kit has its proponents and detractors... heck, I even heard there are some loonies that don't like the new stormhammer?!? I mean, that's almost criminal... everyone should like that sexy monoturretted gun hedgehog of a superheavy tank but in the spirit of Rule #1 we accept even those folks in this inclusive thread.
Also, the tau supremacy suit is not as bad as the centurion. That would be if when the tau titan is destroyed, you get a full squad of three stealth suits to deploy out of the chest within 2" for the crew. *shudder*
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
Because certain Tau players have filled in the gaps with their own made up fluff and are offended that GW isn't following it. There are three different things that are being argued unfortunately simultaneously about this titan (purely visual aesthetics aside) as if they were one thing. There is a difference between "tau don't use titans", "tau can't use titans", and "tau won't use titans". The first up until this product was unveiled was absolutely true; tau simply didn't use titans (or big robots before the riptide) simply because they weren't mentioned and we didn't have any products to buy. There was of course no real mention of WHY and some players decided to make up their own. "Tau can't use titans" and earlier "big robots" ironically only BECAME true with the riptide's fluff simply so the riptide could be the first exception to that just created fluff. They made up the tech reasons why PREVIOUSLY the tau didn't use bigger robots only when they came out with bigger robots. Then we come to "tau won't use titans" which is complete fanspank. Just because I take a sedan to work doesn't mean that I won't ever take a pickup truck and yet somehow tau currently using superheavy fliers became that they have some moral or tactical abhorence against using titans. It really is stupid but the three DIFFERENT issues have become one in the eyes of some veteran players.
Err, Tau not using titans was an established element of the fluff, it was stated explicitly in the 3rd ed book, as well as in taros campaign.
20 years? Its pretty short, considering that you have to change ideology, develop a frame, develop compatible weapons, build said frame and weapons, and then there's no guarantee that the protorype will work.
As a VERY long time tau player (yes, even in fifth edition, when others abandoned the tau - I played them competitively) I love the idea of a big suit.
The tau are supposed to be dynamic - if the railgun tigershark is a response to the imperial titans (and eldar....) then to me this is another evolution of that.
(of course, the fact that the tigershark is also terrible in its effectivity for the points category, if it were real, I would fire the air caste...).
I just don't care for the aestheic.
Tau already have some of the best looking suits in the game - the FW XV9 Suits
They are just plain awesome. I would pay mountains of cash for a reventant (or warhound, or maybe even reaver size) version of an xv9.
This thing looks too bulky - yeah, sure, it looks like a giant crisis suit - something that many have already complained about for years (which the fw suits, and the riptide don't really match, at least in my opinion).
Will I get the suit? Don't know. Depends on the quality of the rules. I already have a tigershark and orca - thats my donation to the "cool models with terrible rules" for the tau collection.
Not sure if I want another.
Err, Tau not using titans was an established element of the fluff, it was stated explicitly in the 3rd ed book, as well as in taros campaign.
I'd appreciate the page numbers to see the actual text. And, yes, the tau "not" using titans certainly was true because the titan models didn't exist either as rules or as a physical product. The question is whether your fluff say they can't or choose not to. There is a difference between those three.
the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.
You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either
They are just plain awesome. I would pay mountains of cash for a reventant (or warhound, or maybe even reaver size) version of an xv9.
This thing looks too bulky - yeah, sure, it looks like a giant crisis suit - something that many have already complained about for years (which the fw suits, and the riptide don't really match, at least in my opinion).
Will I get the suit? Don't know. Depends on the quality of the rules. I already have a tigershark and orca - thats my donation to the "cool models with terrible rules" for the tau collection.
Not sure if I want another.
Meanwhile I strongly dislike the XV9 suits. Too many random bulges and compound curves. I do love this heavy walker.
chaos0xomega wrote: the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.
Did not doesn't equal "can't" or "won't". I have the 3rd edition codex and read it multiple times and don't recall ever seeing that they can't or choose not to. It is IIRC simply stated that they use other things like mantas versus titans (see my driving example above). I could obviously have missed it but that is unlikely. What is more likely though is that you're conflating the three into one single statement. Nothing about the tau titan breaks the fluff as it currently is or to my recollection ever was officially in the codex books (although I don't have 2nd ed taros so can't say for sure there).
chaos0xomega wrote: the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.
Did not doesn't equal "can't" or "won't". I have the 3rd edition codex and read it multiple times and don't recall ever seeing that they can't or choose not to. It is IIRC simply stated that they use other things like mantas versus titans (see my driving example above). I could obviously have missed it but that is unlikely. What is more likely though is that you're conflating the three into one single statement. Nothing about the tau titan breaks the fluff as it currently is or to my recollection ever was officially in the codex books (although I don't have 2nd ed taros so can't say for sure there).
In regards to the Manta bit it actually says that Mantas are the Taus closest analogue to Imperial Titans and Ork Gargants. Regardless, the point is that it isn't an issue of the fanbase creating headcanon that GW chose not to follow, its an issue of GW establishing fluff which they then chose to change, and the Tau fanbase not being very responsive to that. Its GWs fluff to do with as they please, once upon a time Necrons were slaves to the C'Tan and not the other way around (as it is now) for example, but saying that its an element of fluff that didn't exist when it very much did is a bit of a stretch.
chaos0xomega wrote: the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.
I don't recall anything specific in the fluff saying that, but I do recall Forgeworld saying so in response to questions about Tau titans early on. Their standard response was always that Tau didn't use titans, as flyers like the Manta fill that battlefield role instead.
That being said, it's an evolving game. Once upon a time, Marines used camo, Astro Imperialguardium used rhinos and Harlequins used land raiders...
Bobthehero wrote: 20 years? Its pretty short, considering that you have to change ideology, develop a frame, develop compatible weapons, build said frame and weapons, and then there's no guarantee that the protorype will work.
20 years is a long time in the middle of a war. How long did it take Japan to start converting battleships into aircraft carriers when they realised where the future of sea warfare was going to lay?
Given that they already have functional battlesuits, and presumably other similar mecha that they use for non-warlike activities, it's not at all unreasonable to think that they might have come up with something functional in 20 years.
They are just plain awesome. I would pay mountains of cash for a reventant (or warhound, or maybe even reaver size) version of an xv9.
This thing looks too bulky - yeah, sure, it looks like a giant crisis suit - something that many have already complained about for years (which the fw suits, and the riptide don't really match, at least in my opinion).
Will I get the suit? Don't know. Depends on the quality of the rules. I already have a tigershark and orca - thats my donation to the "cool models with terrible rules" for the tau collection.
Not sure if I want another.
Meanwhile I strongly dislike the XV9 suits. Too many random bulges and compound curves. I do love this heavy walker.
I like the XV9s as a supplemental special use unit, but I wouldn't want them to be the bulk of my suits.
Now, the XV89s, on the other hand...I would happily swap out all of my XV8s for XV89 models, they just look that much better.
You know, there are also differencesd in the tactical requirements depending on where and what you fight. Tau may have an "evade instead of holding ground" mentality when it comes to some new colony-backwater-fought-over-planet, but imagine a full scale invasion of a sept world that for some reason can not be evacuated. Cities need to be defended, production facilities must be kept safe... Sure, light mobile groups can dynamically counter enemy attacks as long as it's small scale. What will two dozen firewarriors do against a Knight lance or a proper titan? Right, get torched, that's what. So you need a big, ugly, weapons-toting tower that can deal with stuff of that size. All the better if the tower has actually feet and can move around. Those rail-cannons or whatever it is look menacing enough even for titans, so it fits well with the tau glass cannon stereotype of using guns one category higher than the chassis they are mounted on (compared to imperial counterparts).
I said it when the first images appeared and I'll repeat it again. The choice to give the Tau a 'titan' is probably as much a decision for gameplay practicality as it is to advance their tech/fluff and give them something new.
A Manta really isn't practical to move and manoeuvre around a game table, especially of the smaller size, the foot print of it is massive, you'd most likely need a specially adapted case just for it. It's just plain bulky and cumbersome. Amazing for large apocalypse level games, but just plain annoying and hardly worth the effort on smaller tables. On those smaller tables, small to mid range titans are becoming more and more common, whether you like it or not. Titan whilst tall have a much smaller footprint, even over super heavy tanks depending on size. It's perfect for the tau practicality and gameplay wise if you take size into account.
I don't know about any of you, but I'd be in a constant state of nerves bordering on a wreck if I had a manta and it was mounted on a flying base as well. One cat, small child running around or me pulling off a far too usual clumsy knock into the table away from disaster.
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Ashiraya wrote: Actually, if that tower does not have feet and cannot move around, you can fit much more guns and armor on it.
In which case you just avoid the firing range of that tower without breaking a sweat.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I said it when the first images appeared and I'll repeat it again. The choice to give the Tau a 'titan' is probably as much a decision for gameplay practicality as it is to advance their tech/fluff and give them something new.
A Manta really isn't practical to move and manoeuvre around a game table, especially of the smaller size, the foot print of it is massive, you'd most likely need a specially adapted case just for it. It's just plain bulky and cumbersome. Amazing for large apocalypse level games, but just plain annoying and hardly worth the effort on smaller tables. On those smaller tables, small to mid range titans are becoming more and more common, whether you like it or not. Titan whilst tall have a much smaller footprint, even over super heavy tanks depending on size. It's perfect for the tau practicality and gameplay wise if you take size into account.
I don't know about any of you, but I'd be in a constant state of nerves bordering on a wreck if I had a manta and it was mounted on a flying base as well. One cat, small child running around or me pulling off a far too usual clumsy knock into the table away from disaster.
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Ashiraya wrote: Actually, if that tower does not have feet and cannot move around, you can fit much more guns and armor on it.
In which case you just avoid the firing range of that tower without breaking a sweat.
I agree completely, my Thunderhalk has seen battle once in 4 years. I sometimes wish I had got a Reaver titan as I am sure it would have seen many more games.
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.
You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either
Formosa wrote: Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?
I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.
You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either
Be sure to keep us posted on that!
Bated breath. Really.
Move over Ambien...a new sleep aid's in town.
Yes, because finding your gang in literally every single thread where the fluff gets brought up peddling the same "lulz it's fantasy bruv innit, who needs sense & logic yeah" line is in no way tiresome
created : about 4 hours ago
Forgeworld via GW Homepage soon?
Forgeworldlogoxrunwqj3p6
let's see what a friendly raven whispered today tongue emoticon
"new forge world website launched at 4am uk time 14th August.
Wont allow fw shopping in GW stores.
Is simply to bring it in line with the new GW site.
Will be some "surprise" goodies for the new launch wink emoticon
The reason there isn't more Forge World stock in regular stores is because they simply cannot produce enough stock of it to put it on the shelves. For now anyway."
as usual, take it with a *tiny* bit of salt, but ravens are usually pretty reliable :>
Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices! Please get rid of the stupid postage prices!
Slinky wrote: Twould be good for us in the UK - But I worry that they may bring in "regional" pricing that will bone some overseas folks.
We're already boned, what with the pound so strong right now (seriously, 2.06 Cad right now) I'm just looking forward to a non-fluctating standard price
I'm not massive on the new Tau walker because it feels like it should be blown away backwards with recoil whenever it tries to fire the giant triple back cannons. If they stripped those off, I'd be fine with it.
That said, a revised Greater Knarloc (or Greatest?) would have been more fun I feel.
I know I should be joyous but I'm rather disappointed they've put RT veteran sergeant rank markings on the Iron Warrior sheet.. but none of the other associated rank markings.
With the numbers of torsos and heads that I'll have left over, due to the legion specific upgrade bits, those pintles are a pretty outstanding value. A quick bits raid and boom, there's five pintle-mounted weapons ready to go.
Sorely tempted to pick up a few quad mortars, too, to cover any and all Thunderfire Cannon that I might wish to build at some point. These look much, much better.
Hanskrampf wrote: Can't wait for the size comparisons for the Quad Mortar and Thunderfire Cannon.
Comparing it to the marines in the pictures and personally knowing the size of Rapiers, I'd say it's a bit on the small side for a Thunderfire.
On the other hand it looks better, is cheaper (£ and points) and comes in a manageable number of components in proper resin rather than accursed finecast.
Hanskrampf wrote: Can't wait for the size comparisons for the Quad Mortar and Thunderfire Cannon.
Comparing it to the marines in the pictures and personally knowing the size of Rapiers, I'd say it's a bit on the small side for a Thunderfire.
On the other hand it looks better, is cheaper (£ and points) and comes in a manageable number of components in proper resin rather than accursed finecast.
Let's not forget that it was intended from the start to be in resin, not ported over to finecast resin from metal.
Has there been any more word on when the GW and FW stores will be combining?
As for the Rapier being a little small to be a TFC, that is definitely true, but it gets the job done. Using the regular forecast Techmarine with servo-harness may cost more in the end though.
You only get 1 set of twin bolters? Kinda kills the value since you have to convert like 4 of them to use all the pintle weapons. Might as well just convert everything in the 1st place. Lol
(My personal feelings. No one who likes them are wrong to!)
Lockark wrote: You only get 1 set of twin bolters? Kinda kills the value since you have to convert like 4 of them to use all the pintle weapons. Might as well just convert everything in the 1st place. Lol
(My personal feelings. No one who likes them are wrong to!)
I suppose it depends on how and where you want to use them. They're useable on Land Speeders and many of the other tanks available to the Legions besides Rhinos. Also, they give me the option to swap pintle-mounted gun selection on many tanks, so long as I leave the hatch not glued in place.
RedFox wrote: yeah I feel like the multi-melta upgrade was made for the javelin speeder
I will likely make widespread use of the heavy flamers and the multi-meltas for my Salamanders, and hold most of the heavy bolters on the side until I get through with the Sallies and am ready to tackle Alpha Legion.
I'll be looking at my long constructed and never painted all-resin Stormblade later, to see how well it'd take the pintle-mount hatch ring. I'd always intended it for Death Korps, but the temptation is VERY strong to repurpose it, give it an Astartes crew, and paint it up for Legion use.
Ketara wrote: I'm not massive on the new Tau walker because it feels like it should be blown away backwards with recoil whenever it tries to fire the giant triple back cannons. If they stripped those off, I'd be fine with it.
That said, a revised Greater Knarloc (or Greatest?) would have been more fun I feel.
Rail weapons have little to no recoil. They propel their munitions with rows of magnets which increase the projectiles speed without significant use of combustion.
My apologies, I was referencing an older study that was later proven wrong. However we are talking about a race that mounts a railcannon to a vehicle that isn't as long as the gun itself.
My guess is antigrav technology being utilized by every walker the tau use to enable them not to fall over...
SickSix wrote: Every time I see an argument about scale or realism...
LEMAN RUSS BATTLE TANK!
It's 40k folks.
The Leman Russ Battle Tank is also a tractor with a gun strapped to it.
I think its terrible design is perfectly realistic
I think he's more referring to there being NO room in the turret for both the breech of the gun and the tank commander who waves his sword out of the hatch, much less for a loader and/or gunner. And we won't even get into the ammo supply, and shells that would be sized to go down that huge bore.
Kanluwen wrote: The Leman Russ is also a model kit older than some people playing the game today.
I thought the latest standard leman russ was about 8 years old or less. I seem to remember being married when they released the most recent tank kits and that hasn't been 8 years yet.
Kanluwen wrote: The Leman Russ is also a model kit older than some people playing the game today.
I thought the latest standard leman russ was about 8 years old or less. I seem to remember being married when they released the most recent tank kits and that hasn't been 8 years yet.
Yeah but they didn't change the design at all, just added more options for the guns and changed the track assembly.
The Russ is based of the French BDR G1B, one of a series of similar interwar proposed designed for a new standard infantry tank for the French army, which would reach its conclusion with the ARL 44, designed in secret under Nazi occupation as a rapid-build tank using existing hardware reserves and a new gun to re-arm the French army post-liberation as quickly as possible, but was never followed past the prototype stage.
They were objectively bad tanks, which is why they were never adopted, but even so were better designed than the russ, with the proper barrel/turret ratio, and actual space for suspension and movement of roadwheels under the side armour, which is the Russ's biggest failing; it'd get stuck on the slightest of rough terrain.
MajorStoffer wrote: The Russ is based of the French BDR G1B, one of a series of similar interwar proposed designed for a new standard infantry tank for the French army, which would reach its conclusion with the ARL 44, designed in secret under Nazi occupation as a rapid-build tank using existing hardware reserves and a new gun to re-arm the French army post-liberation as quickly as possible, but was never followed past the prototype stage.
They were objectively bad tanks, which is why they were never adopted, but even so were better designed than the russ, with the proper barrel/turret ratio, and actual space for suspension and movement of roadwheels under the side armour, which is the Russ's biggest failing; it'd get stuck on the slightest of rough terrain.
It amazes me how many people constantly go digging for the most obscure tank they can find then claim it as the inspiration for the Leman Russ (or Baneblade) even though any resemblance is always cursory and there's always a salient design feature missing. Though I must say the side-on view of the ARL44 did make me think of the Macharius.
There is only one 'real world' tank design I've ever seen which matches the general shape and layout of the Leman Russ complete with both WW1 style sponsons AND a turret, and that's the made-up tank from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, which opened in cinemas less than 12 months before the Leman Russ first appeared in EPIC.
Please don't attach non wargaming pictures to Dakka. Thanks.
Reds8n
Lorgars been out since the end of 2013 I think not sure about the contmeptor might have been about 6 months latery. But you're right great models especially Lorgar one of my favourite primarchs so far.
A few weeks ago, the White Scars came roaring out of the Forge World Studio with a batch of fantastic new upgrades, all the heads, torsos and shoulder pads you could want to start your Legion. This week I caught sight of even more upgrades soon to be released. It looks like Blood Angels and Dark Angels players won’t have long to wait for some awesome new kits of their own!
When these are released, sixteen Legions will have been kitted out for the Horus Heresy!
On August 1st, Warhammer World held its first Golden Demon competition, and this event was all about tanks. There were plenty of Forge World vehicles entered into the competition. Two of my favourites were Rich Marlow’s Mechanicum Triaros Armoured Conveyor that won Silver in the Single Tank category, and Kristian Simonsen’s Macharius Heavy Tank that came away with Bronze in the Unbound category for dioramas.
Just two of the fantastic tanks that won trophies on the day.
You can check out more of the winning tanks, and get tickets for the next Golden Demon event, at the Warhammer World webpage.
That’s all from me for now. Make sure you check back soon for more from the Forge World Studio.
That brass is fantastic. I love the border script, too, you know people will be using that as well.
The helmets look awesome 
