Finished Vaults of Terra today and... well. The characters and atmosphere were definitely more of point of recommendation than the plot, but that ending...
Shakalooloo wrote: Finished Vaults of Terra today and... well. The characters and atmosphere were definitely more of point of recommendation than the plot, but that ending...
Spoiler:
There's some proper grimdark EVERYONE DIES!!!
For me it was little better than the second but still much weaker than the first novel. An yeah, the ending was proper 40k. As to characters, there was ever only one worth mentioning anyway - Gorgias the servo skull
He does get some character development, and the book does have several passages devoted to the process involved in the creation of servo-skulls, and how they can pick up quirks.
alone made it out of the webway ''alive'', leaving the gate on some saurian/dino world, heavily damaged, unable to move, but probably having all the records of what happened intact.
Wrapped up the latest Vaults of Terra novel and well yeah, as mentioned before, you come for the characters, I think the plot would've worked better for me probably if I re-read the first two novels again.
But, some interesting stuff in there for sure and yes, Gorgias is still the best character around.
BrookM wrote: Wrapped up the latest Vaults of Terra novel and well yeah, as mentioned before, you come for the characters, I think the plot would've worked better for me probably if I re-read the first two novels again.
But, some interesting stuff in there for sure and yes, Gorgias is still the best character around.
I did re-read the first two the week before the new one, and still the plot is a little odd. I wonder how much the need to have the events of 8th edition - the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum et al - interfered. Like, was it always the intention for the main investigation to be de-railed by them in the second book? Or was the story altered to accommodate them?
BrookM wrote: Wrapped up the latest Vaults of Terra novel and well yeah, as mentioned before, you come for the characters, I think the plot would've worked better for me probably if I re-read the first two novels again.
But, some interesting stuff in there for sure and yes, Gorgias is still the best character around.
I did re-read the first two the week before the new one, and still the plot is a little odd. I wonder how much the need to have the events of 8th edition - the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum et al - interfered. Like, was it always the intention for the main investigation to be de-railed by them in the second book? Or was the story altered to accommodate them?
I think it was planned, seeing as this story does run alongside the Watchers of the Throne series. It still felt like a jumbling mess, but everything was ultimately somehow tied together over the course of the trilogy in a typical grim dark, nihilistic resolution.
Also..
Spoiler:
I really enjoyed that the Drukhari Haemonculus not just knew Bach, but also got enjoyment out of it.
Is this the first "New" (as in not just a near straight re-print) WHFB thing in years?
I hate to break it to you but this is for AoS. Witch Hunters are if anything a more important part of AoS than WHFB. They have a whole faction called The Order of Azyr.
No it isn't. it even says so in the article.
>Written by Darius Hinks, The Witch Hunter’s Handbook sets out the requirements governing those Witch Hunters sworn to do Sigmar’s work in the Old World.
And there's that it's a re-release of a book written in 2006.
The Witch Hunter’s Handbook
Written by Darius Hinks, The Witch Hunter’s Handbook sets out the requirements governing those Witch Hunters sworn to do Sigmar’s work in the Old World. The Six Holy Principles make up the original founding tenets of The Ancient Initiatic and Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar – as recorded in Hieronymus Black’s Rules and Statutes
Managed to snag a copy of Outgunned before it inevitably sold out. Kicking myself over getting the Wraithbone Phoenix elsewhere, not having that one in hand until September is a pain, as I really want more Baggit and Clodde.
Also wrapped up the Twice-dead King Ruin yesterday, was a fun read indeed.
Also wrapped up the Twice-dead King Ruin yesterday, was a fun read indeed.
Ruin is the first one right? I’m glad you enjoyed it, I really liked them, much more than I expected.
Now impatiently awaiting the paperback release of the second one and yes! The novel went places I did not expect it to go, so that was a pleasant surprise.
Also..
Spoiler:
Having the Imperium of Man as a scary immovable object again after so many novels where they struggle to do anything but be on the defence, that was a nice change of pace. Orks migrating because of an incoming Crusade was just plain awesome.
Edit.
I think unless it's a big title, GW doesn't really bother with the hardbacks any more these days, which is a shame, as not everybody has a credit card, device or desire to read every novel in digital format.
What a load of bobbins. They know these things sell quickly so I'm (not) surprised that they didn't queue the website like they do with other non-book preorders.
Edit: and OF COURSE Ebay is already full of flippers selling it for 4x the price.
There's more than a few ebay stores willing to list things they don't have to get early buy slots and then either refund/cancel if they don't get enough stock.
Overread wrote: There's more than a few ebay stores willing to list things they don't have to get early buy slots and then either refund/cancel if they don't get enough stock.
This happened me. I bought a book I had missed out on only to discover the ‘seller’ didnt even have the book. Unbelievably when I left him a bad review he complained that his ‘supplier’ which would be Black Library had let him down. Lesson learned now if I dont get it off GW I just don’t get it. Dealing with one seller who obviously can’t stand the fans is bad enough without going hunting through eBay for another one.
It actually went up for sale early. I had one and alli had to do was click complete order but noticed I had an expired card selected. Spent 10 seconds to change it and it was gone. This was all *before* the official release time
This is actually pretty unacceptable for them to have this happen.
I really like the Black Library limited editions. I’ve got a nice little row of them on my shelf and they look beautiful. The speed with which they sell out and the scalping is just terrible though.
I’m fairly convinced that most people who buy them, like me, buy them to look good on a shelf. It always feels like the artificial scarcity is limited by how many copies they can reasonably ask the author to sign. I’d be just as happy to buy them if they weren’t signed. They could probably then print ten times the numbers, still sell them and they’ve have ten times as many satisfied customers.
Quasistellar wrote: It actually went up for sale early. I had one and alli had to do was click complete order but noticed I had an expired card selected. Spent 10 seconds to change it and it was gone. This was all *before* the official release time
This is actually pretty unacceptable for them to have this happen.
I never saw it on the site until after the site crashed, then it came back and it was sold out. Normally it indeed goes on a few minutes before the hour, but for me it never showed up (and yes I was force refreshing). Very frustrating as I already have every other book in the series..
I should be jumping on when all these limited editions come out.
I don’t want them myself but an extra chance for someone to get a copy instead of a scalper is well worth the time trying.
Side question regarding The Lost And The Damned.
Spoiler:
So near the start. Malcador says one of the Primarchs knew about the warp all along, the only one who was able to know and not be corrupted by it.
Who are we talking about here? He won’t tell Khan, Sanguinius and Dorn the name.
Side note. When he says we all have our parts to play. I’ll do mine, and I know you’ll all do yours, looking at Sanguinius, who looks solemn. Nice moment. As both know what’s coming for them.
Danny76 wrote: I should be jumping on when all these limited editions come out.
I don’t want them myself but an extra chance for someone to get a copy instead of a scalper is well worth the time trying.
Side question regarding The Lost And The Damned.
Spoiler:
So near the start. Malcador says one of the Primarchs knew about the warp all along, the only one who was able to know and not be corrupted by it.
Who are we talking about here? He won’t tell Khan, Sanguinius and Dorn the name.
Side note. When he says we all have our parts to play. I’ll do mine, and I know you’ll all do yours, looking at Sanguinius, who looks solemn. Nice moment. As both know what’s coming for them.
I think that was intended to just be bait for fan speculation tbh. If I had to guess I'd say the Lion. He was the first made and seems to reject chaos out of hand. The gods just don't have anything he wants.
BrookM wrote: Surprised that the regular hardbacks of Echoes of Eternity have not sold out yet, those also tend to go fast whenever they go up for preorder.
.
Maybe on the GW store but they stay widely available for a while. Warhawk hardback is still available on Amazon for retail price.
Is that artwork the canonical size of the Emperor? He's the size of a small Titan?
Isn't his whole public appearance a glamour of some kind? Sure there was a recent book where a silent sister or similar character was able to see the 'real' emperor and he was just a normal dude.
I mean, Abnett has definitely said before that his personal cannon is that it's probably just an entire room of radioactive gubbins and any suggestion there's a throne at all is probably all psychic projection, so I'm not surprised they think he looks any size he wants.
And there have been multiple suggestions from the books that the Emperor is much smaller than usually depicted and it's all just a psychic bluff.
Anyway, it had been rumoured for a while that the last book had to be split, and I was kind of surprised that it wasn't announced that way at the time. They're going to want to do at least a one or two big twists to what we know, so a single volume to wrap everything up always felt like a stretch at this point.
Interesting that they used the word 'Volume' though rather than 'Part', normally you'd use Volume if there's a decent number of books rather than just two. Then again BL may have chosen that word just because it sounds cool.
Londinium wrote: The End and the Death? Who is naming these books?
Interesting that they used the word 'Volume' though rather than 'Part', normally you'd use Volume if there's a decent number of books rather than just two. Then again BL may have chosen that word just because it sounds cool.
The End and the Death is a pretty cool name.
Not happy about this though. So much for ‘limited 8 book series’. Another stressful morning of trying to get a copy without paying a scalper £200.
Is that artwork the canonical size of the Emperor? He's the size of a small Titan?
I think canonically, the Emperor can appear however he wants.
The problem with that is he's sitting on an object of fixed size, though.
That’s just what he wants you to see.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Phazer wrote: I mean, Abnett has definitely said before that his personal cannon is that it's probably just an entire room of radioactive gubbins and any suggestion there's a throne at all is probably all psychic projection, so I'm not surprised they think he looks any size he wants.
And there have been multiple suggestions from the books that the Emperor is much smaller than usually depicted and it's all just a psychic bluff.
.
John Blanche has also said this. All artistic representations of the Emperor sitting on a literal golden throne are just allegorical. The actual Golden Throne is a vast machine.
alphaecho wrote: That's because it was never going to be the final book.
It's the final story...in 50 volumes...with sideways quest novellas...and minor quest pamphlets...
And that will lead into the Vengeful Spirit Series, which is 10-part series (plus side-stories, audio-dramas and a few short-story collections) giving us everything that happened aboard Horus' flagship leading up to the final fight between Horus and the Emperor.
This of course brings us to the Father & Son Trilogy, a trio of novels (with several W+ only short-stories released over the 24 months it will take to release the trilogy) that covers the final battle between the Emperor and Horus.
And, then, the Aftermath Series, a 6-part series (plus two audio-dramas and a W+ animated series of shorts) which deals with the Emperor's internment upon the Golden Throne and the immediate fallout from the Siege of Terra.
The Phazer wrote: I mean, Abnett has definitely said before that his personal cannon is that it's probably just an entire room of radioactive gubbins and any suggestion there's a throne at all is probably all psychic projection, so I'm not surprised they think he looks any size he wants.
And there have been multiple suggestions from the books that the Emperor is much smaller than usually depicted and it's all just a psychic bluff.
.
John Blanche has also said this. All artistic representations of the Emperor sitting on a literal golden throne are just allegorical. The actual Golden Throne is a vast machine.
Chris Wraight has also gone this route, the Emperor is pretty much built in and buried underneath all that machinery that's been added on over time, with barely anything visible of Him.
alphaecho wrote: That's because it was never going to be the final book.
It's the final story...in 50 volumes...with sideways quest novellas...and minor quest pamphlets...
And that will lead into the Vengeful Spirit Series, which is 10-part series (plus side-stories, audio-dramas and a few short-story collections) giving us everything that happened aboard Horus' flagship leading up to the final fight between Horus and the Emperor.
This of course brings us to the Father & Son Trilogy, a trio of novels (with several W+ only short-stories released over the 24 months it will take to release the trilogy) that covers the final battle between the Emperor and Horus.
And, then, the Aftermath Series, a 6-part series (plus two audio-dramas and a W+ animated series of shorts) which deals with the Emperor's internment upon the Golden Throne and the immediate fallout from the Siege of Terra.
Isn't that the original Horus and Emperor story that appeared in the ROC book.? Did they really milk to to 8 pages?
So I guess another year at least until we finally get the end of the books.....I guess they have to have time to write the internment story and the start of the scouring, bobby G pushing his new book, the high lords sleezing their way into power, breaking up the legions all that jazz. I mean its not like they are going to wrap up all the loose ends when they can keep flogging them in another series of books. They will never let this cash cow finish.
Londinium wrote: The End and the Death? Who is naming these books?
Interesting that they used the word 'Volume' though rather than 'Part', normally you'd use Volume if there's a decent number of books rather than just two. Then again BL may have chosen that word just because it sounds cool.
Or thev want to one up wheel of time whose last book got split in 3
Heh, looks like scalpers didn't get that many of the LE books either. There aren't that many auctions on ebay and I've already had 2 auctions cancelled because they had actually put up the auction before they managed to scalp a book. Good news for actual fans, but less so for me because now I probably can't get this book to complete my series :(.
The most worrying part for me in that joke were not the 8 pages, but that it would be written by King. Don't get me wrong, I like his writing, but I just finished the Macharian Crusade Omnibus and let me tell you. If you thought Steven King or Dan Abnett could not write their way out of a wet paperbag by writing a proper ending, you haven't read that book yet. You couldn't write a functioning ending that is worse, even if you'd try to. If King would write that story, it would go like: "And when Horus was almost about to triumph, the Emperor saw his darkness. Doctor's hate what he did next."
Token senseless rant: I recently sold all my HH and 40K books because I needed space and have switched to ebooks. I just realized that the HH books are only available in French. And while that would tempt me to learn that language, I am rather inclined to wish the person that made the decision not to offer them in english, that they forever find their shoes filled with their dogs leftovers. The frustration!
Anyhow, in case you didn't know yet: News from about 4-6months ago: Gaunt's Ghosts - The Victory Part 2 will be released in December. I hope that means that the new story line kicks of shortly after that.
Anyhow, in case you didn't know yet: News from about 4-6months ago: Gaunt's Ghosts - The Victory Part 2 will be released in December. I hope that means that the new story line kicks of shortly after that.
Abnett will first have to finish the Siege finale, and he has the third Bequin book due as well. Let him finish what he started before he kicks off a new arc!
Horus Rising might be a more apt title for this comparison though, it has received several reprints and whenever there is a Humble Bundle, they include either the ebook or audio book as the default option.
BrookM wrote: Horus Rising might be a more apt title for this comparison though, it has received several reprints and whenever there is a Humble Bundle, they include either the ebook or audio book as the default option.
Although there are a lot of repetitions, I've never been disappointed with the new stuff I pick up in a Humble Bundle.
I think I can break even as long as there are at least three books I don't have already.
laam999 wrote: I'll be getting the new crime anthology, looks like we're getting more of the characters from bloodlines and flesh and steel which will be ace.
I'm only 1/4 through the wraithbone phoenix atm like so won't it finished before this is out (slow reader and busy with life stuff atm)
Ooh yeah I’d like more from them. Noctis was cool.
So the Eisenhorn omnibus contains four novels and four short stories. There's the original triology, plus the Magos, which contained a novel and TWELVE short stories. So which shorts make the cut for this book? 'Missing in Action' and 'Backcloth for a Crown Additional' seem a shoe-in since they were in the last omnibus they printed, but that leaves ten others fighting for two slots.
I started listening to a Ciaphas Cane book this week. Amazingly it isn't pronounced like Typhus (or Typhas I suppose in this case), as I thought when I read the first one many years ago, it's Sigh App Hass. I was surprised.
Candace comes from a title, like “queen”. The kandake of Ethiopia is mentioned in the New Testament. Same with Ciaphas. The C should be pronounced hard (like a Tolkien elf’s name…and Caesar).
Automatically Appended Next Post: And again, in the books Amberley Vail uses the nickname “Kai” with him. You saying the inquisitor is wrong?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Candace comes from a title, like “queen”. The kandake of Ethiopia is mentioned in the New Testament. Same with Ciaphas. The C should be pronounced hard (like a Tolkien elf’s name…and Caesar).
Automatically Appended Next Post: And again, in the books Amberley Vail uses the nickname “Kai” with him. You saying the inquisitor is wrong?
I’ve always pronounced it that way, hard C.
Just saying that the audio they don’t normally just look and say what they think, but discussions take place etc.
Particularly with their two main audio readers.
I’ve not listened to it yet, though this and Gaunts Ghosts are on my lists to redo the series’ but in audio form.
Shakalooloo wrote: That 'Kai' could be pronounced 'Kay', and be a diminution of his surname, not forename: Kai as short (not by much, but still!) for Cain.
If you ignore how the real name Ciaphas is pronounced, how the real name Kai is pronounced, and how transliteration works in (modern) English.
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only pronunciation drift!
The character is named after two biblical bad guys.
After actually looking it up, Ciaphas Cain is missing the extra 'a' at the start of biblical Caiaphas' name. Should he not be pronounced KEE-aphas? Still doesn't line-up with the nickname, mind. Wonder why they changed the spelling?
I love the books, so I will re do them, and audio will be the way.
But I’m not gonna lie, knowing it’s not gonna be said how I always pronounced it as a kid, will jar with me
The character is named after two biblical bad guys.
After actually looking it up, Ciaphas Cain is missing the extra 'a' at the start of biblical Caiaphas' name. Should he not be pronounced KEE-aphas? Still doesn't line-up with the nickname, mind. Wonder why they changed the spelling?
Yes, if we didn’t have the author giving us the nickname “Kai”, you might have a point.
The spelling change might be as simple as differentiating the character from the historical person so searches for the character won’t get swallowed up with results for biblical sites. Or maybe it just fits more with 40k’s naming conventions, where names are changed slightly from their referents, like Lion El’Johnson or Kurze or M’koll.
Luthor is getting a French addition according to the BLFB page, in paperback. Does that tend to mean an actual paperback or the hardback-ish versions the Primarch novels normally have? Given Amazon can't seem to make up their mind about if those are hardback and paperback I'm not sure if that's a sign that some of the Primarch books might get reissued finally or not.
New Black Library novel for AoS. I think it sounds interesting, though I find it disappointing that the only options humanity get for gods are Sigmar and Chaos.
New Black Library novel for AoS. I think it sounds interesting, though I find it disappointing that the only options humanity get for gods are Sigmar and Chaos.
Human wise don't forget that Chaos in the Mortal Realms isn't like it is in the Old World.
You see this really well with the Warcry Warbands who each have their own god that they pray too. Now reality is that there are only 4 Chaos Gods or Sigmar to pick up on the human belief for the most part (however as noted other gods can tap in, but gods like Morathi and such don't seem to care/want/use human belief and don't seem to stress over having or losing it). So what happens if you have tribes, to cities, to whole nations worshipping their own god who, in reality, could be a greater demon from any of the four Chaos Gods. Indeed the same faction will have multiple greater demons posing as the god to different groups.
As such whilst there's only a few gods, the variety in belief systems is quite considerable. It also muddies the water and shows how nations and peoples can be worshipping forces that wish for the destruction of the world, without realising it. With Sigmar also being less than nice at times - he's very Old Testament style fire and brimestone and smite you down - and often very focused on his Stormcast and the greater picture; its easy to see how Greater Demons can use disguises and local folk lore to twist people to worshipping them.
New Black Library novel for AoS. I think it sounds interesting, though I find it disappointing that the only options humanity get for gods are Sigmar and Chaos.
Human wise don't forget that Chaos in the Mortal Realms isn't like it is in the Old World.
You see this really well with the Warcry Warbands who each have their own god that they pray too. Now reality is that there are only 4 Chaos Gods or Sigmar to pick up on the human belief for the most part (however as noted other gods can tap in, but gods like Morathi and such don't seem to care/want/use human belief and don't seem to stress over having or losing it). So what happens if you have tribes, to cities, to whole nations worshipping their own god who, in reality, could be a greater demon from any of the four Chaos Gods. Indeed the same faction will have multiple greater demons posing as the god to different groups.
As such whilst there's only a few gods, the variety in belief systems is quite considerable. It also muddies the water and shows how nations and peoples can be worshipping forces that wish for the destruction of the world, without realising it. With Sigmar also being less than nice at times - he's very Old Testament style fire and brimestone and smite you down - and often very focused on his Stormcast and the greater picture; its easy to see how Greater Demons can use disguises and local folk lore to twist people to worshipping them.
That's literally the same as it was in the World That Was. And my point was that previously there were human deities like Morr and Ulric and Shallya that humans worshipped. They weren't all just Sigmar and Chaos.
New Black Library novel for AoS. I think it sounds interesting, though I find it disappointing that the only options humanity get for gods are Sigmar and Chaos.
Human wise don't forget that Chaos in the Mortal Realms isn't like it is in the Old World.
You see this really well with the Warcry Warbands who each have their own god that they pray too. Now reality is that there are only 4 Chaos Gods or Sigmar to pick up on the human belief for the most part (however as noted other gods can tap in, but gods like Morathi and such don't seem to care/want/use human belief and don't seem to stress over having or losing it). So what happens if you have tribes, to cities, to whole nations worshipping their own god who, in reality, could be a greater demon from any of the four Chaos Gods. Indeed the same faction will have multiple greater demons posing as the god to different groups.
As such whilst there's only a few gods, the variety in belief systems is quite considerable. It also muddies the water and shows how nations and peoples can be worshipping forces that wish for the destruction of the world, without realising it. With Sigmar also being less than nice at times - he's very Old Testament style fire and brimestone and smite you down - and often very focused on his Stormcast and the greater picture; its easy to see how Greater Demons can use disguises and local folk lore to twist people to worshipping them.
That's literally the same as it was in the World That Was. And my point was that previously there were human deities like Morr and Ulric and Shallya that humans worshipped. They weren't all just Sigmar and Chaos.
The are members of the Ironweld arsenal who worship Grungi. There humans from the realm of life who worship Alarielle and humans from the realm of Death who worship Nagash. There's even a novel centered around a group of humans who worship Kurnoth.
Thankfully not just Space Marine stories! Do wish they'd return to the previous Inferno! format and just run a gamut of fantasy and sci-fi short stories, I want my mixed anthology books damn it.
New Black Library novel for AoS. I think it sounds interesting, though I find it disappointing that the only options humanity get for gods are Sigmar and Chaos.
Human wise don't forget that Chaos in the Mortal Realms isn't like it is in the Old World.
You see this really well with the Warcry Warbands who each have their own god that they pray too. Now reality is that there are only 4 Chaos Gods or Sigmar to pick up on the human belief for the most part (however as noted other gods can tap in, but gods like Morathi and such don't seem to care/want/use human belief and don't seem to stress over having or losing it). So what happens if you have tribes, to cities, to whole nations worshipping their own god who, in reality, could be a greater demon from any of the four Chaos Gods. Indeed the same faction will have multiple greater demons posing as the god to different groups.
As such whilst there's only a few gods, the variety in belief systems is quite considerable. It also muddies the water and shows how nations and peoples can be worshipping forces that wish for the destruction of the world, without realising it. With Sigmar also being less than nice at times - he's very Old Testament style fire and brimestone and smite you down - and often very focused on his Stormcast and the greater picture; its easy to see how Greater Demons can use disguises and local folk lore to twist people to worshipping them.
That's literally the same as it was in the World That Was. And my point was that previously there were human deities like Morr and Ulric and Shallya that humans worshipped. They weren't all just Sigmar and Chaos.
It's not just that either. Humans are known to worship Alarielle, Nagash and a number of other gods that weren't within the pantheon.
So to get print versions of five HH short stories I've got to buy a massive omnibus with three books in it I already own? Don't love that BL. There's enough ebook exclusive 30k shorts that are unpublished to fill another volume.
New Gobbo novel has also a different author from the previous one. He wrote the Outgunned that was a really good BL novel so I am definitely going to read that one too.
Shadow Walker wrote: New Gobbo novel has also a different author from the previous one. He wrote the Outgunned that was a really good BL novel so I am definitely going to read that one too.
Outgunned was Denny.
Very enjoyable.
I shall check out that too then.
Shakalooloo wrote: So the Eisenhorn omnibus contains four novels and four short stories. There's the original triology, plus the Magos, which contained a novel and TWELVE short stories. So which shorts make the cut for this book? 'Missing in Action' and 'Backcloth for a Crown Additional' seem a shoe-in since they were in the last omnibus they printed, but that leaves ten others fighting for two slots.
Regia Occulta
Missing in Action
Backcloth for a Crown Additional
The Keeler Image
I enjoyed Guymer's Lion novel (both written and audio) and I listened to a couple more by him that weren't bad so I'm cautiously optimistic about this.
JWBS wrote: I enjoyed Guymer's Lion novel (both written and audio) and I listened to a couple more by him that weren't bad so I'm cautiously optimistic about this.
Yeah, Lion is one of the better Primarchs' novellas so at least the author sounds promising.
I just love his name. Angron, because he gets so angry, get it? It's the most inspired Primarch name in the canon.
Whenever I'm telling a sci-fi fan who's never experienced 40K about the books, I always bring up Angron first, because they're immediately hooked by his name and story. They're all like, "There's a big red demon guy who's really, really angry named Angron, and he worships a god named Corn, because angry people love Corn? Awesome!"
At a glance before I was thinking this was just another book in the Primarch series, then I thought no we’ve had his, and secondly it’s Daemon Angron.
Should be an interesting read.
Gobbo's Demise - not bad but the first gobbo's novel (by a different author BTW) was better. Also in the future I would like to read a gretchin story that does not involve a Red Gobbo, just "normal'' life of grots.
Shadow Walker wrote: Gobbo's Demise - not bad but the first gobbo's novel (by a different author BTW) was better. Also in the future I would like to read a gretchin story that does not involve a Red Gobbo, just "normal'' life of grots.
Shadow Walker wrote: Gobbo's Demise - not bad but the first gobbo's novel (by a different author BTW) was better. Also in the future I would like to read a gretchin story that does not involve a Red Gobbo, just "normal'' life of grots.
An anthology of Makaris would be cool
As with Red Gobbo I am not keen for another read of him/them. I prefer my gretchin more grounded in reality (for greenskins of course ). That is why I liked Brutal Kunnin' so much (full Orkiness but without that mystical crap from Thraka's book).
Preview coming up! I REALLY hope it has some AoS stuff. I've noticed a lot of BL big events tend to be so heavily bloated with Horus Heresy and 40K and then maybe half a book on AoS. So I really hope BL can pull out the stops and have a great time for AoS fans as well.
Lord Damocles wrote: It's been a while since they released the Eldar Sketchbook in an impossibly impractical format.
Oh I'd love for them to re-release stuff like that.
Just not around Christmas please - I want to actually have a chance to buy them before the 2 week window to order vanishes (that assumes its not a 1 day limited print run)
I've been reading Chris Wraight's Vaults of Terra books (Inquisitor and his wise-cracking servo skull (who wise cracks in Latin!) doing Inquisitor stuff on Terra itself) and finishing the 2nd book.
Something REALLY MAJOR happens out of left field and seems to be missing an explanation.
Spoiler:
Daemon incursion in the f'ing Astronomicon itself! Obviously leading up to the Great Rift and all that. But basically the Inquisitor shows up and all the watch towers and fortresses are deserted and there's explanation of how this happened without the rest of Terra knowing.
I wonder am I supposed to also be reading Wraight's Watchers of the Throne (Custodeus dudes doing Custodeus stuff) books to know what is going on.
I'm quite surprised and nothing about the Leagues of Votann was announced, I expected they'd be getting at least some sort of involvement in a novel shortly after their release.
Also a bit disappointed there's no Black Library art print Calendar this year.
I hope (I know) that the second volume of the 8th novel of the Siege of Terra is the last one. That aside, Cypher and Bad Moon are must read for me. Do not care about the rest.
I'm sad that the blurb and image for the new Gotrek book make it sound like GW might really have killed off Gotrek's Witch Aelf companion - replacing her with a Stormcast it seems.
Granted he seems to get through them pretty fast in terms of companions, but darn it they could have been wild and given him a Vampire or something to really torment and test his patience.
Nice to see AoS getting a look-in. Goblin book, Gotrek book, Vampire book!
Shadow Walker wrote: I hope (I know) that the second volume of the 8th novel of the Siege of Terra is the last one.
Considering all the heavy implying going on, calling it ''almost a sequel to the heresy'' and all the avoiding to flat out say that it will be exactly two volumes, a volume three is almost a given at this time, and i personally think that we can call ourselves lucky if it stops there and does not escalate to volume four or even more. I guess they just can't let go of the opportunity to have a ''twist'' with a ''secret'' third volume, coming ''totally out of the left field'' and containing ''huge revelations''™. Also, to be cynic for a moment, that approach offers another round of opportunities for mega-deluxe trilogy special editions in a commemoratory box, and to milk the whole affair for half of another year and perhaps an additional christmas.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just to list some circumstancial evidence for TEatD not being limited to two books:
- They never outright say it is two books -. they use expressions like 'more than one volume' or 'several books'. They also quite deliberately avoid natural expressions like ''the first half'' and the like, instead again opting for 'the first volume' and such.
- The release schedule is aligned so that they can release Vol. 1 at the black library celebration, have it end with 'To be continued in Vol. 2' instead of 'To be concluded in Vol. 2', thus generating more buzz for the 'secret' 3rd Volume, then present Vol. 3 at Warhammer Fest 2023, for a christmas release, coincidentially at around the time when wholesaler preorders and amazon listings would need to happen
- From an artistic standpoint, there is no way, and i mean no possible way, that the cover of the last ever book in the Horus Heresy is not the image that defines the 'modern' setting of Warhammer 40k, i.e. the carrion emperor on the golden throne.
"It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.''
It's literally the first thing you see in every single book and novel you open, the one thing every last reader or person even passingly familiar with the setting has seen multiple times.
No way this is not the cover image for the actual last volume in the series.
Tsagualsa wrote: No way this is not the cover image for the actual last volume in the series.
I dunno, for someone that had been following the series with no outside knowledge of the setting, it might be a bit of a spoiler! I think it more likely to be another re-interpretation of Adrian Smith's Horus vs. Emperor duel. In an ideal world, it would be Smith re-imagining it himself, but they're kinda committed to Neil Roberts now...
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm quite surprised and nothing about the Leagues of Votann was announced, I expected they'd be getting at least some sort of involvement in a novel shortly after their release.
Yeah me too, I would even take a short story at this stage- its a great book but they are really light on lore.
All but forgot about this happening today and quite disappointed with the previews, nothing of interest for me here, saves me the hassle of taking a day off then to preorder books like previous years.
Oh well.
Not a fan of the author, but for completion's sake, might as well pick it up then.
Why did Messinius get a model? He’s only been in one of the Dawn of Fire book and he’s not particularly important. Just looking over Dawn of Fire you passed up models that would be a lot more interesting; some of which have more appearances.
- An Inquisitor
- A Custodian
- A Space Wolf Primaris
- The Argent Shroud Canoness
- The Mordian General from book 2
Not got to book 4 yet but that Sister of Silence character might be important as well.
I just don’t see how this model would easily fit into other armies. A White Consuls Captain isn’t something you could just throw in like the female Commisar or famous like Gaunt to be a collector piece.
Never mind other book series. They passed up:
- Honsou
- Forrix
- Kroegar
- Cain
- Augusta from the Bloody Rose series
- Meridya and Verity from the James Swallow book series
- Bequin
- Ravenor
- Saint Sabbat
You get the idea. There’s a lot of other characters they could have went with.
Probably because the character is a UM successor chapter captain and Primaris? I dunno, GW has tunnel vision when it comes to creating more one-shot captains and lieutenants most of the time.
Grimskul wrote: Probably because the character is a UM successor chapter captain and Primaris? I dunno, GW has tunnel vision when it comes to creating more one-shot captains and lieutenants most of the time.
Yep, it's a marine with a pretty standard loadout and no really extravagant, faction-specific details. It's almost guaranteed to sell.
Would be fun if they branched out a bit. Librarians, chaplins, tech marines or apothecaries. Even if the character isn't crash hot it gives conversion fuel for other projects.
- Honsou
- Forrix
- Kroegar
- Cain
- Augusta from the Bloody Rose series
- Meridya and Verity from the James Swallow book series
- Bequin
- Ravenor
- Saint Sabbat
You get the idea. There’s a lot of other characters they could have went with.
GW never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Their brand cross-promotion is dire, even from inter-company studios.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I just don’t see how this model would easily fit into other armies. A White Consuls Captain isn’t something you could just throw in like the female Commisar or famous like Gaunt to be a collector piece.
Uh, what? He is pad swap plus knee icon filing away (and even that is not needed, seeing Raptor Imperialis SM honour badge looks pretty much like this) from fitting into any chapter you want. And the model itself is useful, too, not only it's Primaris Captain with PF/PP combo (which, aside of conversion, is only available as limited store opening model or from scalpers) or one storm bolter bit glued on from being Pedro Kantor (which is not on sale currently and looks really similar to Messinius). Yes, I'd prefer Saint Sabbat but as far as character models go, I bet he will easily outsell last 10+ gak choices for character release slot...
GW wrote:SERIES: SUBSERIES: SUB-SUBSERIES PART 2 OF WHO KNOWS HOW MANY
Can someone please finally put this dumpster fire of a series out of its misery? The heresy novels should have been 1-2 books max and I have no idea why anyone keeps buying full-price novels at an exponentially increasing rate of page count to in-universe time. What's next, an entire 500 page novel dedicated to Horus swinging his sword once? It's such shameless milking of the cash cow with no literary merits.
GW wrote:SERIES: SUBSERIES: SUB-SUBSERIES PART 2 OF WHO KNOWS HOW MANY
Can someone please finally put this dumpster fire of a series out of its misery? The heresy novels should have been 1-2 books max and I have no idea why anyone keeps buying full-price novels at an exponentially increasing rate of page count to in-universe time. What's next, an entire 500 page novel dedicated to Horus swinging his sword once? It's such shameless milking of the cash cow with no literary merits.
No one expects the HH novels to be literary nirvana.
The series has gone on too long but I'm not privy to the individual sold book numbers. Fans will read/buy what they want.
Maybe Book 5 of the end will bring us back to the beginning and an important character who glimpses the Emperor having a quick smoke round the back of his laboratory before things go to hell.
What does a book need to sell to be successful? Not many '000's. 1 to show and 1 to go to indies and bookstores world wide? Amazon fulfilment? Its another hit and justification for another book or two.
The clamour for pre and post heresy info is rising and GW are aware of that. The Beast series had what? 7 books? I'd expect another massive series along with the current timeline rift shenanigans.
GW wrote:SERIES: SUBSERIES: SUB-SUBSERIES PART 2 OF WHO KNOWS HOW MANY
Can someone please finally put this dumpster fire of a series out of its misery? The heresy novels should have been 1-2 books max and I have no idea why anyone keeps buying full-price novels at an exponentially increasing rate of page count to in-universe time. What's next, an entire 500 page novel dedicated to Horus swinging his sword once? It's such shameless milking of the cash cow with no literary merits.
Nah, they won't stop anytime soon - the series is a huge cashcow, and before the shift in publication model that muddled the water quite regularly managed to place titles on several bestseller lists, which is a huge achievement for fiction set in a niche hobby universe. Just like space marines are the mainstay of the whole miniature side of the operation, the heresy is at least a very important core column of their buisness model, if not the most important one outright. You can pretty much expect several additional years of special editions, abridged series, editions with authors commentary and annotations, artbooks, audiobooks and chaff like that to follow, as well as a multi-year series of ''aftermath'' stuff, retconned filler, spinoff subseries and so on. Their whole buisness model will need a huge re-orientation after the heresy is officially ''finished'', and since that is inherently risky, they will try to stave that off for as long as possible. I fully expect them to weasel out of their current stance of the scouring not being part of the heresy series at the earliest opportunity, possibly by using titles like ''Horus Heresy - The Scouring Book 1: Legacy of the Legaciator'' or something like that. Ought to get at least half a decade out of it, with story beats like the traitors flight from terra, the reclamation of mars -there's a trilogy in that alone for sure-, setting up the codex astartes and all that, a disappearance novel each per loyalist primarch, and perhaps a novel or even multiple per traitor primarch/legion that deals with their journey to the eye, setting up their demon worlds and realms and stuff like that.
As a wise man once wrote: They'll never cancel the simpsons.
Phew! After a glance at this thread, it's good to see other people are unimpressed with the new mini and the new books coming out. The only one I have a little interest in is the Cypher one...until I read the synopsis, and I was like...meh.
I wish GW would make minis for the millions of great legacy characters rather than these new ones that I don't care about.
Still no Ciaphas Cain or Amberley Vail; it's dumb.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I just don’t see how this model would easily fit into other armies. A White Consuls Captain isn’t something you could just throw in like the female Commisar or famous like Gaunt to be a collector piece.
Uh, what? He is pad swap plus knee icon filing away (and even that is not needed, seeing Raptor Imperialis SM honour badge looks pretty much like this) from fitting into any chapter you want. And the model itself is useful, too, not only it's Primaris Captain with PF/PP combo (which, aside of conversion, is only available as limited store opening model or from scalpers) or one storm bolter bit glued on from being Pedro Kantor (which is not on sale currently and looks really similar to Messinius). Yes, I'd prefer Saint Sabbat but as far as character models go, I bet he will easily outsell last 10+ gak choices for character release slot...
Plus, never underestimate those who go "Now I have a White Consils Captain I need to start a new Primaris army".
Still no Ciaphas Cain or Amberley Vail; it's dumb.
Yeah, those would be cool to have.
There are cool proxy ones by W Artel, but GW really is frigging up badly here.
The amount of third party Cains is why I'm surprised we've not seen an official one yet.
I don't really know why we don't have ''prominent'' killteams like Cain and his Valhallans or Cain and his schola cadets. They would be ideal for a small box of characterful sculpts.
Mr. Burning wrote: The clamour for pre and post heresy info is rising and GW are aware of that. The Beast series had what? 7 books? I'd expect another massive series along with the current timeline rift shenanigans.
There’s 12 books in the Beast series. The last one deals with reorganizing the Imperium.
I don’t think it’s a question of if there will be a Scouring series, but how many books are going to be in it. Probably 2 dozen or more books, several major battles, each Primarch meeting their end, and the legions breaking up into chapters and war bands. Was it ever officially stated that the Dawn of Fire series is set to follow the edition of the game like a running chronology?
The Siege of Terra series is one of the most exciting narrative events in Warhammer history, telling the story of the climax of the Horus Heresy in incredible detail. Echoes of Eternity is the last novel before the massive multi-part finale, and finds Sanguinius leading a final defence of the Imperial Palace. With his brothers scattered, wounded, or isolated, the primarch must rally the last defenders for a fateful showdown with the traitors’ own Red Angel, Angron.
Poor wording or a hint that The End and The Death may not be a two parter?
The Siege of Terra series is one of the most exciting narrative events in Warhammer history, telling the story of the climax of the Horus Heresy in incredible detail. Echoes of Eternity is the last novel before the massive multi-part finale, and finds Sanguinius leading a final defence of the Imperial Palace. With his brothers scattered, wounded, or isolated, the primarch must rally the last defenders for a fateful showdown with the traitors’ own Red Angel, Angron.
Poor wording or a hint that The End and The Death may not be a two parter?
The End and The Death (of a character we have just introduced).
The Siege of Terra series is one of the most exciting narrative events in Warhammer history, telling the story of the climax of the Horus Heresy in incredible detail. Echoes of Eternity is the last novel before the massive multi-part finale, and finds Sanguinius leading a final defence of the Imperial Palace. With his brothers scattered, wounded, or isolated, the primarch must rally the last defenders for a fateful showdown with the traitors’ own Red Angel, Angron.
Poor wording or a hint that The End and The Death may not be a two parter?
As I said before: count yourself lucky if it ends after Part 3. At worst it will be another endless drag in the vein of Warhammer 40K - The Horus Heresy: The Siege of Terra: The End and the Death Part 4 - Samus' left bollock.
The Siege of Terra series is one of the most exciting narrative events in Warhammer history, telling the story of the climax of the Horus Heresy in incredible detail. Echoes of Eternity is the last novel before the massive multi-part finale, and finds Sanguinius leading a final defence of the Imperial Palace. With his brothers scattered, wounded, or isolated, the primarch must rally the last defenders for a fateful showdown with the traitors’ own Red Angel, Angron.
Poor wording or a hint that The End and The Death may not be a two parter?
Pretty sure it was confirmed that it's a two-parter, but each book is absolutely massive. There's also the Garro novella in between, so I guess you could say it's 3 books.
The Siege of Terra series is one of the most exciting narrative events in Warhammer history, telling the story of the climax of the Horus Heresy in incredible detail. Echoes of Eternity is the last novel before the massive multi-part finale, and finds Sanguinius leading a final defence of the Imperial Palace. With his brothers scattered, wounded, or isolated, the primarch must rally the last defenders for a fateful showdown with the traitors’ own Red Angel, Angron.
Poor wording or a hint that The End and The Death may not be a two parter?
Pretty sure it was confirmed that it's a two-parter, but each book is absolutely massive.
Nah, they avoid actually saying ''This book has two halves'' like the plague, it's always multi-volume this and more than one part that. They also do not call Part 1 ''the first half'' as you would naturally sooner or later. Imho, they plan to announce part 3 as a 'surprise' on Warhammer Fest 2023, probably for a christmas release. Speculation on my part: they'll do a cover release as well, with a cover deliberately chosen to maximize speculation about some of the whackier fan theories and so on.
The Siege of Terra series is one of the most exciting narrative events in Warhammer history, telling the story of the climax of the Horus Heresy in incredible detail. Echoes of Eternity is the last novel before the massive multi-part finale, and finds Sanguinius leading a final defence of the Imperial Palace. With his brothers scattered, wounded, or isolated, the primarch must rally the last defenders for a fateful showdown with the traitors’ own Red Angel, Angron.
Poor wording or a hint that The End and The Death may not be a two parter?
Pretty sure it was confirmed that it's a two-parter, but each book is absolutely massive.
Nah, they avoid actually saying ''This book has two halves'' like the plague, it's always multi-volume this and more than one part that. They also do not call Part 1 ''the first half'' as you would naturally sooner or later. Imho, they plan to announce part 3 as a 'surprise' on Warhammer Fest 2023, probably for a christmas release. Speculation on my part: they'll do a cover release as well, with a cover deliberately chosen to maximize speculation about some of the whackier fan theories and so on.
How big can it actually be unless they are tying up every arc in two tomes?
The Siege of Terra series is one of the most exciting narrative events in Warhammer history, telling the story of the climax of the Horus Heresy in incredible detail. Echoes of Eternity is the last novel before the massive multi-part finale, and finds Sanguinius leading a final defence of the Imperial Palace. With his brothers scattered, wounded, or isolated, the primarch must rally the last defenders for a fateful showdown with the traitors’ own Red Angel, Angron.
Poor wording or a hint that The End and The Death may not be a two parter?
Pretty sure it was confirmed that it's a two-parter, but each book is absolutely massive.
Nah, they avoid actually saying ''This book has two halves'' like the plague, it's always multi-volume this and more than one part that. They also do not call Part 1 ''the first half'' as you would naturally sooner or later. Imho, they plan to announce part 3 as a 'surprise' on Warhammer Fest 2023, probably for a christmas release. Speculation on my part: they'll do a cover release as well, with a cover deliberately chosen to maximize speculation about some of the whackier fan theories and so on.
How big can it actually be unless they are tying up every arc in two tomes?
In the recent video Dan Abnett himself said something about the whole of it being well above 1000 pages iirc., and the first volume has 480 pages according to the internet. So 3 volumes is certainly not out of the question. Also, trilogies just sell better than two-volume or four-volume sets, without a real reason, and make for good 'deluxe edition' boxed sets and so on, so from a marketing perspective you'd certainly rather go for another trilogy than for a two-parter.
This just sounds like it could end up padded or a mish mash of 'endings'.
BUT prefer that tp another interminable run of novels stretching out for another 24 months....
It's all the same author. It's just a big book so they've split it into three. For a series this long, 1000 pages isn't excessive. Some of the Wheel of Time books approach that, most of the Stormlight books are that long (and also split into two in the UK).
deano2099 wrote: It's all the same author. It's just a big book so they've split it into three. For a series this long, 1000 pages isn't excessive. Some of the Wheel of Time books approach that, most of the Stormlight books are that long (and also split into two in the UK).
I don't really care about multi-volume books, split series and whatever, they can do that if they want to or if it makes sense from a business perspective. That being said, the Heresy has dragged on for long enough and a lot of the recent books fell like blatant padding. And their stupid teasing and dragging a quasi-finished book out for another year adds insult to injury. I get why they do it, it's probably gonna make them a lot of extra money and drive fan engagement, but it's nonetheless detestable.
Finished the Harrowmaster. It was a good read, and I enjoyed it much more than the Huron's one. Yet I think that author's talents are best suited to orks fiction, and cannot wait to read another novel about the Ufthak Blackhawk.
There's a new teaser article up for Black Library Celebration. As far as i can see there's nothing we did not know about, but you can enter a prize draw to win a piece of cover artwork from the Siege of Terra series by signing up to the newsletter:
Win a Signed Siege of Terra Art Print
Our week of festivities begins with something special – a competition in which 10 lucky people will win a signed Siege of Terra art print from the cover of the latest book in the series! This competition runs from the 13th of February to the 5th of March. All you have to do to enter is sign up for the Black Library newsletter, and stay subscribed until the winners are chosen randomly.*
To add to my paranoia , they still avoid calling TEatD Part I the first half of the final book, which fuels my suspicion that there'll be a third part that will be revealed with much ado later in the year.
The next phase of the Siege of Terra series also lands. The End and the Death Volume I is the first part of Dan Abnett’s riveting finale to an epic series. With madness and Chaos closing in all around, only a sliver of hope remains for Terra. Rest assured, this book will also arrive in French and German – and there will be a fantastic special edition too.
Honestly if it's May next year by the time the last book comes out that's still five years to publish a ten-book series. Which while I can see people thinking it's dragging it out, it's a positively lightening fast schedule in the world of publishing.
deano2099 wrote: Honestly if it's May next year by the time the last book comes out that's still five years to publish a ten-book series. Which while I can see people thinking it's dragging it out, it's a positively lightening fast schedule in the world of publishing.
Oh, i'm not complaining, say what you will about the Heresy series, at least it keeps the lights on for more niche stuff they do alongside of it. I fully expect them to do at least a dozen books for a hypothetical 'Scouring' series afterwards, they need a bread-and-butter Space Marine based cash cow anyhow.
Well the Garro Siege of Terra novella clocks in at 130 pages, so a 100 pages shorter than the Magnus one, so not all the authors are over-writing it at least!
Lord Damocles wrote: At his point, anybody still trying to buy the limited editions is a mug.
You can have it for 150-200€ from eBay, there's about a dozen auctions up... disgusting.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The End and the Death Volume 1 is slated for release on February 28, which means pre-orders will go up on February 18 if they stick to the usual timing:
Website already pretty non-responsive at 10:50, managed to get it into my cart but the entire websites crashed around 11:00, came back at 11:20 but it's already sold out, gg. Guess it's time to sell my other SoT books, done with this.
At this point i think they'd need to consider some sort of serious intervention to stop this scalping bulls**t. Allow a week of registration and then draw randomly from all people that registered, or something like that. The 'first past the post' system simply isn't fair and causes ill will and bad feelings all around.
Tsagualsa wrote: At this point i think they'd need to consider some sort of serious intervention to stop this scalping bulls**t. Allow a week of registration and then draw randomly from all people that registered, or something like that. The 'first past the post' system simply isn't fair and causes ill will and bad feelings all around.
Sadly its a problem a lot of retailers are suffering from and its very hard to avoid online. Every time a company comes up with a new method, the scalpers find new ways around it. Heck at least it isn't as bad as major football and music event tickets where they can sell out in seconds to scalpers.
I managed to order the Dawn of Fire special edition at 11:35 here in the Netherlands after more than half an hour of an unresponsive website and a dozen error screens, and when i checked out five minutes later it had sold out. I also manged to get the hardback SoT book, I wasn't going to bother with the limited edition and that seemingly was a good choice. Finally I got two Cadian upgrade sprues and interestingly, they were limited to a maximum of three per order.
Tsagualsa wrote: At this point i think they'd need to consider some sort of serious intervention to stop this scalping bulls**t. Allow a week of registration and then draw randomly from all people that registered, or something like that. The 'first past the post' system simply isn't fair and causes ill will and bad feelings all around.
Sadly its a problem a lot of retailers are suffering from and its very hard to avoid online. Every time a company comes up with a new method, the scalpers find new ways around it. Heck at least it isn't as bad as major football and music event tickets where they can sell out in seconds to scalpers.
Yeah i know. The fundamental problem is that any version of restricted access online is about as likely to keep out legit customers, and it is conversely trivially easy to make/have an arbitrary number of fake accounts and sockpuppets. Still, their current method of 'do nothing and don't talk about it' is not satisfactory.
ImAGeek wrote: I missed this one too. Surprisingly I don’t think I even care anymore. I’m just done with their limited editions now.
Apparently the first one went up on ebay at 10:12, for a slender 400 pound...
At this point i think GW needs to manually track that stuff and cancel these orders. It would not solve the scalper problem, but it would send a signal.
ImAGeek wrote: I missed this one too. Surprisingly I don’t think I even care anymore. I’m just done with their limited editions now.
Apparently the first one went up on ebay at 10:12, for a slender 400 pound...
At this point i think GW needs to manually track that stuff and cancel these orders. It would not solve the scalper problem, but it would send a signal.
How will they even know who bought it? Even if only 1 person ordered the book in the same registered town/area as listed on the ebay account it doesn't mean its the same person. The ebay account could be registered by a friend/family member in one region whilst the person making the purchase could be in another. Or the shipment address for one of their many scalper stores is dotted around the country so, again, the book might go to region A whilst the store might be registered in region B.
Heck I've regularly had mail sent to the family home instead of uni digs/rentals/away from home etc....
Managed to get an order for the End and the Death limited edition.
Took 5+ minutes just to get through the pages and the site crashed right after I placed the order, but it worked.
Utterly absurd seeing them listed on Ebay for £300 - 400 just minutes after being made available on the GW site, but even more absurd that people are buying them at those price already. Several dozen listed and sold On Ebay UK already, before anyone even has the book to sell.
How will they even know who bought it? Even if only 1 person ordered the book in the same registered town/area as listed on the ebay account it doesn't mean its the same person. The ebay account could be registered by a friend/family member in one region whilst the person making the purchase could be in another. Or the shipment address for one of their many scalper stores is dotted around the country so, again, the book might go to region A whilst the store might be registered in region B.
Heck I've regularly had mail sent to the family home instead of uni digs/rentals/away from home etc....
Sure, you might have had that stuff done--but they can always track specific storefronts on eBay. They can purchase the items from them and get shipper details that way.
How will they even know who bought it? Even if only 1 person ordered the book in the same registered town/area as listed on the ebay account it doesn't mean its the same person. The ebay account could be registered by a friend/family member in one region whilst the person making the purchase could be in another. Or the shipment address for one of their many scalper stores is dotted around the country so, again, the book might go to region A whilst the store might be registered in region B.
Heck I've regularly had mail sent to the family home instead of uni digs/rentals/away from home etc....
Sure, you might have had that stuff done--but they can always track specific storefronts on eBay. They can purchase the items from them and get shipper details that way.
Etc etc etc
Aren't the collector's editions all furnished with a certificate and a serial number? You could absolutely track these, and e.g. lifetime-ban scalpers. Of course that can be avoided too, but as i said, it's as much about sending a message as it is about any actual effect.
How will they even know who bought it? Even if only 1 person ordered the book in the same registered town/area as listed on the ebay account it doesn't mean its the same person. The ebay account could be registered by a friend/family member in one region whilst the person making the purchase could be in another. Or the shipment address for one of their many scalper stores is dotted around the country so, again, the book might go to region A whilst the store might be registered in region B.
Heck I've regularly had mail sent to the family home instead of uni digs/rentals/away from home etc....
Sure, you might have had that stuff done--but they can always track specific storefronts on eBay. They can purchase the items from them and get shipper details that way.
Etc etc etc
Aren't the collector's editions all furnished with a certificate and a serial number? You could absolutely track these, and e.g. lifetime-ban scalpers. Of course that can be avoided too, but as i said, it's as much about sending a message as it is about any actual effect.
I mean, are you seriously going to spend man-power and hours trawling ebay, facebook and god knows what else to find these? And even then, how do you know it's not someone who perhaps bought it for themselves but then decided to sell it later? I don't care for scalping, but that seems unreasonable.
Overread wrote: Honestly rather they spent the money just making more copies!
Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong sort of thing elsewhere but 1500+ copies already seems like quite a substantial number for a limited edition signed book.
I mean, are you seriously going to spend man-power and hours trawling ebay, facebook and god knows what else to find these?
They already have people doing this kind of stuff. It just mostly is more for IP enforcement.
And even then, how do you know it's not someone who perhaps bought it for themselves but then decided to sell it later? I don't care for scalping, but that seems unreasonable.
You get that the scalpers are the ones selling it right off the bat, day of preorders yeah, and usually multiple copies of said item?
Timing is an important context to this. Right now the GW-US page is running fairly slow because of this nonsense.
There should be a separate stock for the Americas.
Personally, I got my standard hardback edition of Siege of Terra through my local discounter (along with the other new Guard stuff), but did wind up ordering the three MTO Ghost novels from GW, but at the end of the day, after work, so when the rush finally died down.
I mean, are you seriously going to spend man-power and hours trawling ebay, facebook and god knows what else to find these?
They already have people doing this kind of stuff. It just mostly is more for IP enforcement.
And even then, how do you know it's not someone who perhaps bought it for themselves but then decided to sell it later? I don't care for scalping, but that seems unreasonable.
You get that the scalpers are the ones selling it right off the bat, day of preorders yeah, and usually multiple copies of said item?
Timing is an important context to this. Right now the GW-US page is running fairly slow because of this nonsense.
Yeah, it's kind of what a substantial part of any brand's legal team usually does: scouring the various platforms for people that overstep what is allowed in advertising, as well as hunting for counterfeiters or in this case recasters. Depending on the specific terms&conditions of purchases and the legal situation in the relevant country, going after scalpers is part of their mission scope, although that is usually more of a thing with event tickets and the like.
Of course they could try to 'solve' the issue by printing 10.000s of 'limited' copies, but that is kind of contrary to the point of a limited edition.
I'm not saying that hunting scalpers would be a wise investment, but the current situation is on a trajectory that is actually damaging to the brand. If limited editions become practically un-obtainable through the official channels and you have to rely on scalpers that demand a premium of several 100% that's bound to piss a lot of people off permanently.
I mean, are you seriously going to spend man-power and hours trawling ebay, facebook and god knows what else to find these?
They already have people doing this kind of stuff. It just mostly is more for IP enforcement.
And even then, how do you know it's not someone who perhaps bought it for themselves but then decided to sell it later? I don't care for scalping, but that seems unreasonable.
You get that the scalpers are the ones selling it right off the bat, day of preorders yeah, and usually multiple copies of said item?
Timing is an important context to this. Right now the GW-US page is running fairly slow because of this nonsense.
Yeah, it's kind of what a substantial part of any brand's legal team usually does: scouring the various platforms for people that overstep what is allowed in advertising, as well as hunting for counterfeiters or in this case recasters. Depending on the specific terms&conditions of purchases and the legal situation in the relevant country, going after scalpers is part of their mission scope, although that is usually more of a thing with event tickets and the like.
Of course they could try to 'solve' the issue by printing 10.000s of 'limited' copies, but that is kind of contrary to the point of a limited edition.
I'm not saying that hunting scalpers would be a wise investment, but the current situation is on a trajectory that is actually damaging to the brand. If limited editions become practically un-obtainable through the official channels and you have to rely on scalpers that demand a premium of several 100% that's bound to piss a lot of people off permanently.
Takes 30 seconds to view Ebay complete listings. A staffer can then inform the GW board how much price gouging they gave away to predatory scalpers.
I’m a bit relieved. I spent 20 minutes waiting at the cart screen to checkout…which never came. Eventually my screen reloaded with “item out of stock.” So I’ve spent meaningful time in my life pursuing the previous LEs of the books and novellas (some while I was on vacation). I was going to also get the First Founding. Now it’s a no. They don’t respect my time or interest, and I’ve spent far too much time chasing nonsense LEs. I’ll list the previous SoT LEs on eBay over the next week, and make lemonade out of lemons. And never, ever worry about a GWLE again. And possibly BL as a whole. I’ve been a fan of this particular lore since the original RoC: Lost and the Damned hardcover in the early 90s. Bill King will continue to suffice.
dienekes96 wrote: I’m a bit relieved. I spent 20 minutes waiting at the cart screen to checkout…which never came. Eventually my screen reloaded with “item out of stock.” So I’ve spent meaningful time in my life pursuing the previous LEs of the books and novellas (some while I was on vacation). I was going to also get the First Founding. Now it’s a no. They don’t respect my time or interest, and I’ve spent far too much time chasing nonsense LEs. I’ll list the previous SoT LEs on eBay over the next week, and make lemonade out of lemons. And never, ever worry about a GWLE again. And possibly BL as a whole. I’ve been a fan of this particular lore since the original RoC: Lost and the Damned hardcover in the early 90s. Bill King will continue to suffice.
It's not GW greedily buying all the stock in order to sell it at much higher prices. So just how is it them not respecting your time and interest rather than the people doing it being the problem?
dienekes96 wrote: I’m a bit relieved. I spent 20 minutes waiting at the cart screen to checkout…which never came. Eventually my screen reloaded with “item out of stock.” So I’ve spent meaningful time in my life pursuing the previous LEs of the books and novellas (some while I was on vacation). I was going to also get the First Founding. Now it’s a no. They don’t respect my time or interest, and I’ve spent far too much time chasing nonsense LEs. I’ll list the previous SoT LEs on eBay over the next week, and make lemonade out of lemons. And never, ever worry about a GWLE again. And possibly BL as a whole. I’ve been a fan of this particular lore since the original RoC: Lost and the Damned hardcover in the early 90s. Bill King will continue to suffice.
Yeah I might ebay mine as well. If this is what it's going to be like indefinitely, I may as well make well over a grand (closer to two!) on what I've got.
I'm curious - GW has/had a queue system that they use (or have used) on certain releases to a, help keep the site stable; and b, partially deal with the scalper issue.
Can anyone remember when they last used it? Seems like SoT LE releases would be a good time to deploy it if it is still around.
And, for that matter, did people think it helped when it was used?
It very much helps over the site simply crashing or not processing orders or otherwise being totally unworkable and leaving you unknowing if your order really has been processed or ending up processing more than one etc..
That said for a product with only 1.5K copies I think it would cause a lot of irate people who would complain that they couldn't make an order because the site locked them out formally; as opposed to the informal "its just being buggy" approach that you get without the waiting system
Personally I don't see the hype over those limited edition siege books. I appreciate a nice aesthetic, but paying mental money for some pleather bound books? Not for me. Don't enable them, gw or the resellers.
dienekes96 wrote: I’m a bit relieved. I spent 20 minutes waiting at the cart screen to checkout…which never came. Eventually my screen reloaded with “item out of stock.” So I’ve spent meaningful time in my life pursuing the previous LEs of the books and novellas (some while I was on vacation). I was going to also get the First Founding. Now it’s a no. They don’t respect my time or interest, and I’ve spent far too much time chasing nonsense LEs. I’ll list the previous SoT LEs on eBay over the next week, and make lemonade out of lemons. And never, ever worry about a GWLE again. And possibly BL as a whole. I’ve been a fan of this particular lore since the original RoC: Lost and the Damned hardcover in the early 90s. Bill King will continue to suffice.
It's not GW greedily buying all the stock in order to sell it at much higher prices. So just how is it them not respecting your time and interest rather than the people doing it being the problem?
This entire LE edition is due to GW’s greed. Back when BL started the Horus Heresy, and while the HH books were hitting the bestseller list, there were no LE products. (The closest you had were the different printings having different foil colors.). Everyone who wanted a book could get one at the same time. People could discuss the books while they were fresh. Then GW started the LE nonsense, and killed the discussion, fell off the bestseller list, and made following their series a burden. There would be no scalpers if GW had not become greedy and started trying to milk the fanbase extra hard.
The hardbacks come out the same day as the LE so it's not that. I think it's more that the whole "Siege of Terra" story is it's own ordered, single story, which is in part dependant on the other 50+ books from the HH series.
People aren't caught up, but it's not the same as the main series where it's like "well you can follow the Dark Angels story by just reading these 6 books"
It's harder to dip into - it does feel designed for people who have read the whole series.
"This entire LE edition is due to GW’s greed. Back when BL started the Horus Heresy, and while the HH books were hitting the bestseller list, there were no LE products."
There weren't even any hardback editions. You had MMPB and that was it.
I have plenty of limited edition sourcebooks from before / around that time but they're produced by GW. Still it's not like LE runs were an unknown concept to them. Everyone who's said they're giving up on chasing these things is making the right choice imo, it's not even close. I made this choice many years ago, not only will you not lose any happiness, you'll actually feel better.
farmersboy wrote: "This entire LE edition is due to GW’s greed. Back when BL started the Horus Heresy, and while the HH books were hitting the bestseller list, there were no LE products."
There weren't even any hardback editions. You had MMPB and that was it.
And they didn't sell out day one, either! Lots of these harbacks seem to go quick, and then it's a long wait to the paperback printing, meaning there's a divide between people able to read the book and those who want to but are unable to.
BL has done horrible things well before HH was a thing. Remember when the books of certain authors were first sold as overly expensive hardbacks before they got the paperback treatment? Some of the Ghost novels were given special treatment as well, making fans wait forever for a normal edition to drop.
Thankfully most limited editions are released alongside normal editions these days, when they kicked off the Siege of Terra with limited editions first, then months later the regular hardback edition, that was a scummy move which they thankfully stopped around Warhawk.
And yes, biggest annoyance nowadays is how small some of the printing runs are, if I really want a book, I need to make sure I get it day one, lest it sells out in no time at all.
BrookM wrote: BL has done horrible things well before HH was a thing. Remember when the books of certain authors were first sold as overly expensive hardbacks before they got the paperback treatment?
I remember. I got Aurelian novella as silver edition because the original = gold was out in no time, and they realised that the demand was there hence silver edition. That was the last special edition hardback I got from them.
edit: I misread it. It was supposed to be before HH. My mistake
BrookM wrote: BL has done horrible things well before HH was a thing. Remember when the books of certain authors were first sold as overly expensive hardbacks before they got the paperback treatment? Some of the Ghost novels were given special treatment as well, making fans wait forever for a normal edition to drop.
Thankfully most limited editions are released alongside normal editions these days, when they kicked off the Siege of Terra with limited editions first, then months later the regular hardback edition, that was a scummy move which they thankfully stopped around Warhawk.
And yes, biggest annoyance nowadays is how small some of the printing runs are, if I really want a book, I need to make sure I get it day one, lest it sells out in no time at all.
You'd be surprised at the figures in the book industry in general. People just don't buy printed books anymore, if you reach mid-4-digits in a week that can already get you on some bestseller lists, and if you manage to break 10.000 units sold in a week you're pretty much guaranteed to appear on one. The majority of large publisher books that could be classified as entertainment average total lifetime sales in the mid-thousands, if you're breaking 10k you're already uncommonly succesful. Compared to these numbers, even GW's 'Limited Editions' are huge.
BrookM wrote: BL has done horrible things well before HH was a thing. Remember when the books of certain authors were first sold as overly expensive hardbacks before they got the paperback treatment?
I remember. I got Aurelian novella as silver edition because the original = gold was out in no time, and they realised that the demand was there hence silver edition. That was the last special edition hardback I got from them.
Hehe, that I do remember! Oh man, I stopped trying after.. I think it was Aurelian as well, those novellas were a real crime on the series, not just because of how limited they were, but also that some, not all of them, but some, added NOTHING to the series as a whole, just more padding, but in a limited and expensive format. I am just glad that they reprinted those stories in collected series later.
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Tsagualsa wrote: You'd be surprised at the figures in the book industry in general. People just don't buy printed books anymore, if you reach mid-4-digits in a week that can already get you on some bestseller lists, and if you manage to break 10.000 units sold in a week you're pretty much guaranteed to appear on one. The majority of large publisher books that could be classified as entertainment average total lifetime sales in the mid-thousands, if you're breaking 10k you're already uncommonly succesful. Compared to these numbers, even GW's 'Limited Editions' are huge.
JWBS wrote: Does it work if I skip one of the stories?
The vorbis conspiracy? Yeah, but almost all of the stories are characters from either novels or short stories so you definitely get more from it if you've read the rest. Which I recommend you do, the crime stuff is the best stuff BL do IMO.
Still working my way through Vorbis, two stories in so far, but I agree that some of the crime stories are some of the best stuff by BL in a long time now. Would love for another Zido novel, or more Baggit and Clodde.
BrookM wrote: Still working my way through Vorbis, two stories in so far, but I agree that some of the crime stories are some of the best stuff by BL in a long time now. Would love for another Zido novel, or more Baggit and Clodde.
This.
I like most BL. But I have really been enjoying the crime stuff.
JWBS wrote: Does it work if I skip one of the stories?
The vorbis conspiracy? Yeah, but almost all of the stories are characters from either novels or short stories so you definitely get more from it if you've read the rest. Which I recommend you do, the crime stuff is the best stuff BL do IMO.
The Crime and Horror imprints are definitely the hidden gems of the BL offerings.
Just to list some circumstancial evidence for TEatD not being limited to two books:
- They never outright say it is two books -. they use expressions like 'more than one volume' or 'several books'. They also quite deliberately avoid natural expressions like ''the first half'' and the like, instead again opting for 'the first volume' and such.
- The release schedule is aligned so that they can release Vol. 1 at the black library celebration, have it end with 'To be continued in Vol. 2' instead of 'To be concluded in Vol. 2', thus generating more buzz for the 'secret' 3rd Volume, then present Vol. 3 at Warhammer Fest 2023, for a christmas release, coincidentially at around the time when wholesaler preorders and amazon listings would need to happen
Lol, called it, apparently that specific discrepancy in the text pops up between the hardback and the E-book of TEatD part one:
At the end of the eBook it says:
"TO BE CONTINUED IN THE END AND THE DEATH: VOLUME II"
However the hardback version apparently says the book will CONCLUDE with book 2. Not CONTINUE. I don't own the hardback so it would be good to get this confirmed by somebody who does.
Obviously an eBook can be edited much later in the publishing process than a hardback can. It wouldn't surprise me if this all but confirms we will be getting a three-book finale. I think they originally planned for two, and then changed the plan and it became three.
ImAGeek wrote: I’m starting to be quite glad I missed this one tbh, to save me the stress of trying to get a copy potentially twice more.
The people that bought their collector's editions from scalpers can now rage around like rumplestilzkin because they can prepare to doing it again for the ultra-collectors trilogy box in faux-leather case and gold lettering that is inevitably coming.
I'm not sure why people rage at scalpers. Gw created the problem and the consumers create the demand. Scalpers are just a middle man adjusting the product's sale price to the consumers' demand relative to the artificial scarcity GW created.
Consumers want something limited and special just for themselves but don't want to pay for that specialness.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: I'm not sure why people rage at scalpers. Gw created the problem and the consumers create the demand. Scalpers are just a middle man adjusting the product's sale price to the consumers' demand relative to the artificial scarcity GW created.
The amount of a signed limited book they release is not some small number in the first place. 1500+ books is already a fairly decent amount for something like this and its not as if they could reasonably make thousands upon thousands of them.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: I'm not sure why people rage at scalpers. Gw created the problem and the consumers create the demand. Scalpers are just a middle man adjusting the product's sale price to the consumers' demand relative to the artificial scarcity GW created.
Consumers want something limited and special just for themselves but don't want to pay for that specialness.
It's all very naive.
Scalpers aren't a middleman - a middleman in regular retail are things like shops who buy in stock and distributor firms who buy stock from manufacturers and distribute it to stores to sell to customers.
Scalpers intercept the regular retail chain of trade and increased scarcity of a product in order to inflate its value way beyond market normal. That's why during the pandemic governments were seriously looking at ways to make it illegal because scalpers were buying up large stocks of things and then commanding a premium because the whole retail chain was broken. Graphics cards, cleaning products, toilet roll etc....
Scalpers are also not raising prices to what the market will take but raising them to the extremes.
Furthermore all their profits and income are purely leached out of the retail chain - they aren't helping stores/distributor/shipping/manufacturer firms to produce more and serve the customer and profit; they are purely leaching money from that.
Scalpers intercept the regular retail chain of trade and increased scarcity of a product in order to inflate its value way beyond market normal. That's why during the pandemic governments were seriously looking at ways to make it illegal because scalpers were buying up large stocks of things and then commanding a premium because the whole retail chain was broken. Graphics cards, cleaning products, toilet roll etc....
Scalpers are also not raising prices to what the market will take but raising them to the extremes.
You're confusing things here. They are exploiting scarce goods and extreme demand to deliver great profit to themselves. The government stepped in during covid when this was over necessities. No one cares that people do this with luxury goods be cause no one needs a limited edition fiction novel or graphics cards like they do food and medical supplies. Comparing those two pools of goods is specious.
Furthermore all their profits and income are purely leached out of the retail chain - they aren't helping stores/distributor/shipping/manufacturer firms to produce more and serve the customer and profit; they are purely leaching money from that.
All of which is irrelevant because customers were served, the people who bought the goods to be resold. Why does someone deserve these books just because they want them on their shelf? What's even more laughable is that the people who desire them do so because of their limited nature and scarcity--they want the value of that, but then they're incensed that someone else also saw that value and got to it first and then attributed a dollar value to their limited nature. Lastly, and this is complete conjecture on my part, but do you think that were those people with sand in their knickers over not being able to easily complete their collection to sell the rest of their collections to someone else, that they would sell them for what they paid for? Of course not, they'd also sell them for an inflated price, thereby demonstrating the inate hypocrisy of all of this.
Scalpers intercept the regular retail chain of trade and increased scarcity of a product in order to inflate its value way beyond market normal. That's why during the pandemic governments were seriously looking at ways to make it illegal because scalpers were buying up large stocks of things and then commanding a premium because the whole retail chain was broken. Graphics cards, cleaning products, toilet roll etc....
Scalpers are also not raising prices to what the market will take but raising them to the extremes.
You're confusing things here. They are exploiting scarce goods and extreme demand to deliver great profit to themselves. The government stepped in during covid when this was over necessities. No one cares that people do this with luxury goods be cause no one needs a limited edition fiction novel or graphics cards like they do food and medical supplies. Comparing those two pools of goods is specious.
Furthermore all their profits and income are purely leached out of the retail chain - they aren't helping stores/distributor/shipping/manufacturer firms to produce more and serve the customer and profit; they are purely leaching money from that.
All of which is irrelevant because customers were served, the people who bought the goods to be resold. Why does someone deserve these books just because they want them on their shelf? What's even more laughable is that the people who desire them do so because of their limited nature and scarcity--they want the value of that, but then they're incensed that someone else also saw that value and got to it first and then attributed a dollar value to their limited nature. Lastly, and this is complete conjecture on my part, but do you think that were those people with sand in their knickers over not being able to easily complete their collection to sell the rest of their collections to someone else, that they would sell them for what they paid for? Of course not, they'd also sell them for an inflated price, thereby demonstrating the inate hypocrisy of all of this.
I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot if scalpers decided to move in on GW product to the extent that they already do for sports tickets and big event tickets.
It's easy to back seat argue that its just consumerism and perfectly fine, until it hits your own wallet when someone, who isn't part of the chain of delivery of a product, simply buys out all the stock of a limited product (or buys out at a rate equal to the manufacturers output, thereby controlling the majority of stock) and raises the prices purely for profit.
Again scalping isn't part of the general consumer cycle, that's why it has its own terminology and why people identify it as something different to regular retail. And yes governments were looking at all scalping during the Pandemic, not just medical and essential supplies (which some governments already had laws on and used them - profiteering in the USA was used on several people who bought out all supplies of cleaning and sanitary goods).
Also consider this, scalping also hurts the regular chain of production as well.
If a person has £100 to spend on hobby purchases and a book costs £10. That person can purchase 10 books which means 10 rounds of income for the chain of supply from store to manufacture to author.
However if a scalper moves in and buys out all of the stock of 1 of those books and raises the price to £100 then the customer might only be able to purchase that 1 book. The store and the whole chain of manufacture to author gets 1 sale; the customer gets 1 product.
So its not just hurting the customer, its also hurting the industry as well. Because £90 or that £100 the customer spent is purely going to the scalper.
I do think when we're talking about one book in three volumes, it's *really* bad to have demand exceed supply that badly. At least if you do that, sell it as a bundle of all three that get sent out as they become available. No fun "winning" the scramble for book one then failing for book two.
(This arguably applies to the entire Siege of Terra run as a whole, but it's even more acute here)
I was going to actually try and get the Limited Edition of the final book - I figure if you get one, that's the one to get. But not now it's "Book 10, Part 3".
I got my hardback of The End and the Death and it does indeed say "to be concluded" in part 2.
It's also 650 pages- the only way I can see it being three parts if they've literally just taken the second book and cut it in half, so the remaining parts will be 300-400 pages.
While they can change the text at the end, they can't change where the book ends, and if it was planned to be two parts, I can't imagine the second book being planned as more than 800 pages. You want to find a good break in the story but you also want to keep the sizes similar.
Bobthehero wrote: Yes, but consider the following: GW finally has a Guards(wo)man character wielding a full size rifle. I wish she had a helmeted version, that said.
Given that she has head options, it preseumably shouldn't be too difficult to swap in one from the regular guard sprues.
Face is really messed up, looks very different to the character from the cover art. They've reworked faces between announcement and release on these before though so fingers crossed
GaroRobe wrote: The skull on the base confuses him. How exactly is it merged into stone?
Either
1) The skull is behind the stone in front and thus the whole skull and helmet are sitting in a small recess.
2) The original owner of the skull had the misfortune to fight, and die, against something that was wielding a super sharp cutting edge that sliced a clean edged chunk off their skill and helmet. With all the power, edge, psy and bladed weapons around I'm sure there's more than a few that can make a neat clean cut through bone and standard Guard Issue Armour
GaroRobe wrote: The skull on the base confuses him. How exactly is it merged into stone?
Either
1) The skull is behind the stone in front and thus the whole skull and helmet are sitting in a small recess.
2) The original owner of the skull had the misfortune to fight, and die, against something that was wielding a super sharp cutting edge that sliced a clean edged chunk off their skill and helmet. With all the power, edge, psy and bladed weapons around I'm sure there's more than a few that can make a neat clean cut through bone and standard Guard Issue Armour
I think the base is supposed to represent not a single chunk of stone, but a pile of loose rubble that this skull is partially covered by, and is just not painted with that in mind.
Bobthehero wrote: I am surprised Cain and Jurgen didn't get a release.
I have vague memories of them having metal models through Black Library, back in t'day - am I imagining that?
There was a not-so-good model of Cain with a metal regimental standard way back when, i don't think it included Jurgen. It was a free-ish adaptation of the Artwork on the cover of one of the earliest books iirc.
I wasn't aware of that model, huh. But given that Gaunt and Raine got some models, I remain shocked Cain didn't get a release. Maybe with his next book.
Bobthehero wrote: I wasn't aware of that model, huh. But given that Gaunt and Raine got some models, I remain shocked Cain does not have a permanent release.
I still hope for a Cain+Jurgen+his Valhallans Kill Team, it's the obvious place for them to be, half of the novels are basically Kill Team missions.
Bobthehero wrote: Cain, Jurgen, Karsteen, Brocklaw, Vail, who else? Feels like it's kind of a top heavy kill team, just a bunch of officers out for a stroll.
Cain, Jurgen, trooper Magot, 'Jinxie' Penlan, that girl with the augmetic lungs, Lustig, one of either Brocklaw, Kasteen or Vail. There are a bunch of recurring lower-level people that regularly go on these missions with Cain and fit the 'dirty dozen' archetypes quite well.
The smart thing would of course be making it two kits, one for Killteam with Cain, Jurgen, one or two named side-characters from the books and some randos, and the other for 40k proper with 'generic' greatcoat troops/ Valhallans with build options for Kasteen and the other named characters like Sulla or Broklaw, with the kits of course being compatible.
Chances are we'll see more Ghosts before we see Cain. We're due at least one more Ghost novella, perfect time to release another set including Milo and maybe some of the Verghast reinforcements, would be nice.
). That is why I liked Brutal Kunnin' so much (full Orkiness but without that mystical crap from Thraka's book).
