John Prins wrote: Very true. It's a great way to piss off your loyal customer base. Start a KS, get you loyal customers to chip in, then release at GenCon before your loyal customers get their KS rewards!
I agree that it's poor form even when they leave themselves the wiggle room to do so IMO. It's just plain scummy when they go back on their explicit promise to not do so ala Palladium's Robotech.
OTOH, CMoN no longer makes that promise for their KS; in fact, they specifically say not to back if you can't accept that CMoN might start retail distribution prior to KS delivery.
It doesn't look like they've found the fix yet for the stiff poses that plagued the 1st kickstarter's models. It's been a while since I looked at my old metal LeClerc blitz era models but have the arms always been so big? My most recent work with the RAFM stuff may have skewed my perceptions admittedly.
On the arms, you're right, or at least that's how they did it with their first KS.
The legs, though... back in their first KS, they decided that the best place to make the cuts was under the skirts, so they look pretty weird, and poseability is not really there. A lot of us said as much, but... wel, Robert is not the best listener.
I do believe they changed that for their following KSs though. Funny how that works.
Apparently the devs are fired according to discord and, from the official post by the president of the company, they don't consider themselves game developers any more. I can't confirm the former but the president of the company definitely said the latter despite what the (fired) devs replied in thread.
Well then, it was (not very) good while it lasted. Hopefully if someone else gets the license for computer games (fat chance), they will go and do something people actually want.
Hopefully the next developer will put in some effort into figuring out what kind of game potential customers actually want.
Recently my local store had a swap meet and someone brought a couple of RAFM Hg minis. There was a Kodiak in the bunch and I couldn't resist. It looks mostly complete and looks to be missing just the head antenna unlike the others. I think there rest are a hunter, a jaguar, and two cheetahs.I
Thanks to both of you. The original Kodiak was my favorite in the collection during the initial run and I'm glad to have one again even if a part is missing and the gun is droopy (both are relatively easy to fix). I prefer the look of the Destroyer variant (as John Hwang said... the bazooka barrel is big enough to fire other bazookas) now 25 years later but it's good to have both. I'll probably end up selling the other models though after I make sure I'm not missing those variants.
If anyone wants me to stop mentioning the (now) defunct Heavy Gear Assault here in the thread, just let me know (although from this latest update I think they can finally stick a fork into it if true). From the Steam forum links above, one of the more ardent and long time supporters posted this in one of the threads:
RaptorRage [has Heavy Gear Assault] Aug 26 @ 3:01pm The very basic version is that Stompy Bot moved under the banner of BlocPlay Entertainment, and during E3 while Vam who was the CTO of the company and other members were promoting the launch of a new distribution platform called TokenPlay under which HGA was going to be one of the launch titles, the board of directors or insiders in the company decided to mess around with the stock of the company and severely undervalue it along with not providing any marketing support for the platform or the game. They subsequently cut off development funding for the game, completely threw out all the software work that was put into the development for the distribution platform and had some other separate development team repurpose it to something else, and ended the contracts of the HGA team along with Vam being fired under dubious reasoning as apparently the first act of a newly appointed interim CEO.
So the login and game servers along with the HGA main site apparently have been shut down and the devs seemingly are unable to do anything about the HGA listing on Steam at this point because it looks like nobody has any access anymore to even post a news update. And nobody seems to know exactly who at BlocPlay is in charge of the assets for HGA or the running of the Steam page and other social media sites, let alone the status of the Heavy Gear computer game IP as it relates to the rights that were provided by Dreampod 9. The only potential news for the mess may come in late September with a shareholder meeting of some sort where they might be able to do something about the offending parties in the company that apparently decided to kill the game right when it was about to generate real revenue, not to mention the planned tournaments and other promotions and development.
VAM is IIRC the guy who came here to set us all straight years ago about the game without mentioning that he was actually working on it.
Yeah, it was very troubled since literally day one so many years ago. Their 30(45?) day countdown to the big announcement of the game ended with a day of nothing on the zero count ticker because they weren't ready yet didn't bother to delay the count either. It's been half assed from the very beginning and I feel sorry for the folks that put serious money into the higher tier packages back when it was a f2p/p2w MP only title.
Seeing as he's moved to other, greener pastures a couple years ago already, not a chance.
I'll add that it's not nice to wish for someone to work at DP9...
HudsonD wrote:Seeing as he's moved to other, greener pastures a couple years ago already, not a chance.
I'll add that it's not nice to wish for someone to work at DP9...
A career in the food service industry with his JD might be greener pastures than the baren landscape of the Heavy Gear IP badlands right now.
Firebreak wrote:Oh! I didn't know that... or I had forgotten. Well, good for him.
But hey with ilClan finally coming, anything's possible in the world of mecha mini games.
So Prime Knights KS when? XD
I'll google it but just in case my google fu is weak... ilClan?
Firebreak wrote:Oh! I didn't know that... or I had forgotten. Well, good for him.
But hey with ilClan finally coming, anything's possible in the world of mecha mini games.
So Prime Knights KS when? XD
I'll google it but just in case my google fu is weak... ilClan?
ilClan is a Battletech concept. There is a group of advanced "nations" called the Clans who left the Inner Sphere around Earth several centuries before and decided to return and invade the Inner Sphere. Each one of the Clans are very competitive. When they need to conduct join operations as a whole, they select a Clan leader (called 'khan'), to become the ilClan. During the initial invasion (which was stopped a couple years after it started, due to some brilliant political and strategic maneuvering), it was understood that which ever of the invading Clans (initially 4, but later 6 with a seventh in reserve) that reached Terra first would demonstrate their dominance over the rest and become ilClan.
One of the announced 'period' books for Battletech is supposed to be called "ilClan", which indicates one of them will be rising to the top, some how. There's a lot of politics involved in things. Some of the Invading Clans have merged with the Inner Sphere worlds they have conquered, while the Homeworld Clans supposedly considered all the Invaders corrupted by the interaction and resolved to reject them. We could be looking at one of the Invading Clans getting the title or a fresh new invasion from the Clan Homeworlds.
Hard to say, the Inner Sphere hasn't been idle, and has run their own territories in to one mess or another, but are still quite imaginative and started developing a mix of advanced Clan gear and Inner Sphere ingenuity (partly because the most mercantile Clans also moved in to the Inner Sphere, partly because of reverse engineering).
And the actual sourcebook has been in - Hollywood would call it "development hell" - for ten or fifteen years. They're now working up to it for real, and it's supposed to come out early 2019.
I, for one, can't wait for Terra to be liberated from the freebirths.
Firebreak wrote: And the actual sourcebook has been in - Hollywood would call it "development hell" - for ten or fifteen years. They're now working up to it for real, and it's supposed to come out early 2019.
I, for one, can't wait for Terra to be liberated from the freebirths.
Indeed. From the nearest I can tell from Sarna's information, there has been little information on the Home Clans for about 55 years. That's about 11 full Warrior generations to develop with, (though the Scientist caste was severely hammered).
Sometimes I wonder if Heavy Gear inspired the ProtoMechs... The standard Gear is roughly the same size, while the Gear Striders were about on par with the lighter Mech classes. The standard Gear is MUCH easier to pilot since it doesn't require electronics tattooed in to your skin or for you to have all your limbs removed!
Charistoph wrote: Sometimes I wonder if Heavy Gear inspired the ProtoMechs... The standard Gear is roughly the same size, while the Gear Striders were about on par with the lighter Mech classes. The standard Gear is MUCH easier to pilot since it doesn't require electronics tattooed in to your skin or for you to have all your limbs removed!
Wonder no more, then! The timing for the release of the ProtoMechs (back in '97 in TRO3060) makes it pretty clear where the inspiration came from ^^.
ilClan is a Battletech concept. There is a group of advanced "nations" called the Clans who left the Inner Sphere around Earth several centuries before and decided to return and invade the Inner Sphere. Each one of the Clans are very competitive. When they need to conduct join operations as a whole, they select a Clan leader (called 'khan'), to become the ilClan. During the initial invasion (which was stopped a couple years after it started, due to some brilliant political and strategic maneuvering), it was understood that which ever of the invading Clans (initially 4, but later 6 with a seventh in reserve) that reached Terra first would demonstrate their dominance over the rest and become ilClan.
One of the announced 'period' books for Battletech is supposed to be called "ilClan", which indicates one of them will be rising to the top, some how.
Thanks. I figured it was battletech related but hadn't heard that specific term before.
Regarding Heavy Gear, is this game/IP now, uh, over?
Over? Nah, but it's like the KFC colonel says in the matrix movie... "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept". I have zero insider knowledge of their finances but, from a long time fan's perspective, the switch to plastics and a ground up new rules system doesn't seem to have energized the player base. The company lost one of its two public face employees (and specifically the one who was in charge of making the miniatures AND the rules), they didn't go to gencon this year (they've only missed previously one or two years since 1994), there are almost as many people posting in this thread as there are on the entire official forums, and the few players trying to start local scenes still report that they can't get stores to stock their product because they have to order direct. They seem to have switched to crowdfunding all releases since the initial kickstarter (have they come out with any traditional casted/released minis since that original one fulfilled?) and the funding for subsequent kickstarters is less than that of the original. I think they're making the final steps from a smaller mid tier company in the niche industry to a large garage one instead. YMMV.
Charistoph wrote: Sometimes I wonder if Heavy Gear inspired the ProtoMechs... The standard Gear is roughly the same size, while the Gear Striders were about on par with the lighter Mech classes. The standard Gear is MUCH easier to pilot since it doesn't require electronics tattooed in to your skin or for you to have all your limbs removed!
Wonder no more, then! The timing for the release of the ProtoMechs (back in '97 in TRO3060) makes it pretty clear where the inspiration came from ^^.
A 3 year difference can indicate an inspiration, but that's no absolute guarantee. The Protomech concept may have already been considered back in the days when battle-armored Elementals were first proposed in to the game, and Mechs below 20 tons have always been hinted at (though rarely effective). Heavy Gear may have just been a trigger for finalization of the concept and to organize the release for all we know.
I was mostly trying to keep the thread on the Heavy Gear track so it didn't get derailed in to Battletech.
Charistoph wrote: Sometimes I wonder if Heavy Gear inspired the ProtoMechs... The standard Gear is roughly the same size, while the Gear Striders were about on par with the lighter Mech classes. The standard Gear is MUCH easier to pilot since it doesn't require electronics tattooed in to your skin or for you to have all your limbs removed!
Wonder no more, then! The timing for the release of the ProtoMechs (back in '97 in TRO3060) makes it pretty clear where the inspiration came from ^^.
A 3 year difference can indicate an inspiration, but that's no absolute guarantee. The Protomech concept may have already been considered back in the days when battle-armored Elementals were first proposed in to the game, and Mechs below 20 tons have always been hinted at (though rarely effective). Heavy Gear may have just been a trigger for finalization of the concept and to organize the release for all we know.
I was mostly trying to keep the thread on the Heavy Gear track so it didn't get derailed in to Battletech.
They were released right after HG got its 2nd edition, which was kind of HG's golden era in terms of sales. It was selling like gangbusters and Activision stopped making Mechwarrior games to start doing HG ones.
It was also the very same year Activision went all out with HG, and started going to conventions with this:
A full-sized, completely accurately worked and painted Hunter Gear.
They repainted and rearmed it afterwards for HG2, and I have a pic with a person for scale ^^:
So no, it's absolute no guarantee, but still the fact is that HG was completely stealing Battletech's limelight at the time.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The problem with blowing up a 10mm model up to 15 feet tall is the weapons being totally cartoony. Pity Activision didn't address that.
Fixed that for you :p. I do think it looks mighty cool, though.
*pushing my imaginary thick glasses further up my nose while speaking with an overly nasal nerd voice* Aaactually... Heavy Gear is 1/144 scale which equates more closely to 12mm. ☺
JohnHwangDD wrote: The problem with blowing up a 28mm model up to 15 feet tall is the weapons being totally cartoony. Pity Activision didn't address that.
Fixed that for you :p. I do think it looks mighty cool, though.
No, you didn't. The miniature stands 28mm tall, and the full size model stands 15 feet tall, so the comparisons are direct: 28mm vs 15 feet.
If you wanted to "correct" it, you would have said "10mm" scale.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The problem with blowing up a 28mm model up to 15 feet tall is the weapons being totally cartoony. Pity Activision didn't address that.
Fixed that for you :p. I do think it looks mighty cool, though.
No, you didn't. The miniature stands 28mm tall, and the full size model stands 15 feet tall, so the comparisons are direct: 28mm vs 15 feet.
If you wanted to "correct" it, you would have said "10mm" scale.
If we're being that pedantic, Heavy Gears NEVER have been 28mm tall. Not the RAFM ones, not the 2nd ed tactical ones (from where this one was made), not the Blitz! metals, not the current plastics.
Because, you know, when people say "28mm", they're referring to a scale, not the actual height of a miniature. Because it never is.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
warboss wrote: *pushing my imaginary thick glasses further up my nose while speaking with an overly nasal nerd voice* Aaactually... Heavy Gear is 1/144 scale which equates more closely to 12mm. ☺
I guess to clarify my question, DP9's website seems to be abandoned. Who, if anyone, is currently publishing the game and how would one go about buying new product?
Manchu wrote: I guess to clarify my question, DP9's website seems to be abandoned. Who, if anyone, is currently publishing the game and how would one go about buying new product?
As far as I know, DP9 has abandoned their webpage for the KS updates and Facebook. Webstore is still functional, I think, and AFAIK is basically the only way to buy from them.
It's just that they haven't had an actual release in ages.
Manchu wrote: I guess to clarify my question, DP9's website seems to be abandoned. Who, if anyone, is currently publishing the game and how would one go about buying new product?
Oooo... I wasn't aware of that. Visiting DP9.com gets you a redirect to a long and sketchy URL that just set off my virus protection to block whatever it was trying to do. Same thing with the store.dp9 website. I haven't visited either in a while as I only check out the forums every week or two but that definitely wasn't the case the last time I did visit the main sites (don't recall when that exactly was though).
Balance wrote: Website should be working, last I checked. I need to do some SSL config so it's all SSL-friendly. There shouldn't be any weird redirects.
I haven't rechecked it for obvious reasons but here is the list of errors and redirects that my Avast antivirus found. I closed the dp9 store window as soon as the first error popped up again so the malware warning that comes second didn't get a chance. The malware infected prize url is what both sites tried to redirect to (and that small url was followed by a ton of URL gibberish that filled up the entire location bar).
That's weird. I'm checking on my side and don't see anything. There was an issue several months ago but it's been quiet since then.
Any chance the malware you mention is an issue with your local device? I’ll see if Avast has a way to resubmit, too. I’m checking via Google’s webmaster tools.
Balance wrote: That's weird. I'm checking on my side and don't see anything. There was an issue several months ago but it's been quiet since then.
Any chance the malware you mention is an issue with your local device?
I ran a full virus check just in case both with Avast and Malwarebytes after getting the message and nothing on my end locally came up. I went to both DP9 sites afterwards just now and they both seem to work. I doubt it was just on my end given that two different people got some sort of error going to the sites (Manchu and myself); in my case, I didn't get the sketchy ad Manchu got likely because it got blocked before completing. Whatever it was, it's gone now though. I have no idea if malware programs are smart enough to recognize they've been blocked and deactivate itself in response or if it was a timed error/outage at the sites.
Looks clean at the moment. Wondering if that was from the issues a few months back. I'm still working on a larger update because it makes me happy and to switch to a more stable and higher-performing platform.
Looks clean at the moment. Wondering if that was from the issues a few months back. I'm still working on a larger update because it makes me happy and to switch to a more stable and higher-performing platform.
Thanks for the resource! I've added that as a bookmark just in case. Like I said, it resolved itself but it was definitely doing something fishy for a while there. I wouldn't have known myself except that Manchu clarified his earlier post to mean about the websites rather than the overall health of the IP.
Albertorius wrote: It's also the fact that it's kinda big... but have not much detail to speak of. Kinda like the old Armorcast titans back in the 90s and the like.
Spoiler:
I was thinking the same thing. Is the resin stressed around the video game controller d-pads or is that some left over mould release? I'm really not a fan of the shallow detail on the tracks especially the road wheels. I don't know if its the soft curves and details but it's giving me a child's toy impression rather than a tabletop miniatures centerpiece model. I hope I'm wrong about some of that and also that it looks significantly better painted.
Albertorius wrote: It's also the fact that it's kinda big... but have not much detail to speak of. Kinda like the old Armorcast titans back in the 90s and the like.
Smooth surfaces was basically the deal with Utopian units. The lack of greebling becomes more obvious when you go to bigger units.
Albertorius wrote: It's also the fact that it's kinda big... but have not much detail to speak of. Kinda like the old Armorcast titans back in the 90s and the like.
Smooth surfaces was basically the deal with Utopian units. The lack of greebling becomes more obvious when you go to bigger units.
I feel that they definitely could have done more. The Tau Devilfish is a 15 year old kit and it has more detail and feels complete despite the same issue of large areas of smooth surfaces on roughly the same size. FW kits go even bigger for Tau and didn't suffer from that either. YMMV.
Albertorius wrote: It's also the fact that it's kinda big... but have not much detail to speak of. Kinda like the old Armorcast titans back in the 90s and the like.
Smooth surfaces was basically the deal with Utopian units. The lack of greebling becomes more obvious when you go to bigger units.
Smooth is not undetailed, though, and it certainly does not redeem the shallowness of the interior of the tracks (it simply looks like they designed it as a solid and added the inner wheels with no thought about how it looks or how it should work).
I mean... this is smooth, too. And probably quite a bit smaller:
Or hell, you could go bigger! I hope you'd agree with me that these guys look smooth but not in the least bit undetailed:
Some very good examples. I posted something similar (albeit without pics as I figured John didn't need them as a fellow tau player) last page about the devilfish. Looking at more examples in your post, Albertorius, I think the key to pulling it off is occasionally punctuating those large flat spaces with smaller areas festooned with gribbly bits. Other than maybe the tracks (which barely count since the level/depth of detail on them is so low), I don't see any detailed areas breaking up the smooth lines.
Albertorius wrote: It's also the fact that it's kinda big... but have not much detail to speak of. Kinda like the old Armorcast titans back in the 90s and the like.
Smooth surfaces was basically the deal with Utopian units. The lack of greebling becomes more obvious when you go to bigger units.
Smooth is not undetailed, though,
Fair enough, and I've personally never liked the Utopian aesthetic, but it seems reasonably consistent with the aesthetic. And it seems to have more texture detail than the KS render, plus it's lacking full assembly of turrets and whatnot. I'll reserve judgement until we see it fully assembled and painted, but again, I'm not a fan of Utopian designs.
i remember when the game first came out and when a lgs by my college put them in the clearance bin I bought 2 minis and a bazooka pack cause I loved the designs of the suits. Too bad it was too expensive to play back then, what sucks even more is that hasn't changed plus the whole rules thing doesn't work quite well. Which is funny cause I still got one of the mechs and bazooka pack in pkg and one mech open, go figure.
Dax415 wrote: i remember when the game first came out and when a lgs by my college put them in the clearance bin I bought 2 minis and a bazooka pack cause I loved the designs of the suits. Too bad it was too expensive to play back then, what sucks even more is that hasn't changed plus the whole rules thing doesn't work quite well. Which is funny cause I still got one of the mechs and bazooka pack in pkg and one mech open, go figure.
$4-7 USD iirc per miniature in a game that typcially only had 4-6 minis per side was too expensive? For the amount of metal you got, it was actually quite a deal. The books on the other hand were alot more expensive for their relatively small page count (core book obviously excluded) compared with other games at the time with softcover b&w art. Were you referring to that? I was on a limited budget at the time as well being a high school student then college freshman working only two shifts a week part time at minimum wage but the buying a mini every week or two was well within my grasp. The monthly or more frequent book releases though were difficult to keep up with due to the prices.
Over here price per mini for Gears was more in the line of 10-12€, with Striders going for about 30€ and tanks anywhere between 40 and 50, so...
buying directly from the Pod was cheaper... as long as you bought enough stuff to qualify for max shipping cost AND as long as customs officials didn'd decide to stop the pavkage. If they did, ir turned out more expensive.
OTOH, the spanish edition of the books were quite competitively priced, so that was good
Albertorius wrote: Over here price per mini for Gears was more in the line of 10-12€, with Striders going for about 30€ and tanks anywhere between 40 and 50, so...
buying directly from the Pod was cheaper... as long as you bought enough stuff to qualify for max shipping cost AND as long as customs officials didn'd decide to stop the pavkage. If they did, ir turned out more expensive.
OTOH, the spanish edition of the books were quite competitively priced, so that was good
Was that during 2nd edition? I don't think the Euro existed as a currency when HG was created but I could be wrong.
warboss wrote: Was that during 2nd edition? I don't think the Euro existed as a currency when HG was created but I could be wrong.
We started using the euro after december 31st of 1998, and the spanish edition was published from 1999 onwards. I got aquainted with the game due to the spanish edition, so... ^_^
When you compare it to the outlay required for a GW game, Heavy Gear was never an expensive game to play. I think more people got turned off by the majority of models being metal than had issues with the price. Most folks prefer dealing with plastic.
warboss wrote: Was that during 2nd edition? I don't think the Euro existed as a currency when HG was created but I could be wrong.
We started using the euro after december 31st of 1998, and the spanish edition was published from 1999 onwards. I got aquainted with the game due to the spanish edition, so... ^_^
I didn't consider the delayed translation and release. The English release happened in 1994 so the five years inbetween plus internation distribution costs could lead to that increased price on the minis for you compared with initially here in North America. I'm a bit surprised that you were able to get a collection of the Rafm minis as by the time the Spanish edition was published in 1999 they were discontinued. With how multifaceted international distribution is, I'm surprised that they were able to stock them two years after the switch to Tactical 1/144 scale; did the minis arrive prior to the release of the rpg?
warboss wrote: Was that during 2nd edition? I don't think the Euro existed as a currency when HG was created but I could be wrong.
We started using the euro after december 31st of 1998, and the spanish edition was published from 1999 onwards. I got aquainted with the game due to the spanish edition, so... ^_^
I didn't consider the delayed translation and release. The English release happened in 1994 so the five years inbetween plus internation distribution costs could lead to that increased price on the minis for you compared with initially here in North America. I'm a bit surprised that you were able to get a collection of the Rafm minis as by the time the Spanish edition was published in 1999 they were discontinued. With how multifaceted international distribution is, I'm surprised that they were able to stock them two years after the switch to Tactical 1/144 scale; did the minis arrive prior to the release of the rpg?
The RAFM minis never "arrived", per se. I just scoured ebay and similar outlets to get minis ^^. The ones that edge ent released over here were the tactical scale ones. I got "some" of those too .
John Prins wrote: When you compare it to the outlay required for a GW game, Heavy Gear was never an expensive game to play. I think more people got turned off by the majority of models being metal than had issues with the price. Most folks prefer dealing with plastic.
The cost per model absolutely was a factor inhibiting its popularity local to me. I mean, the argument is probably sound that the total cost for a force is less than that for a 2,000-point 40k army, but when a metal CEF hovertank (back when they first came out) was well over a tenner, then I'm putting it back on the shelf and picking up something cheaper instead. The DP9 models seemed to be more expensive without actually seeming to be worth it.
The material was irrelevant (in fact, the DP9 models seemed to be made from a softer alloy than GW used, as were Rackham's, so cleaning mould lines was a bit easier). Everyone was selling metal models, so there was no stigma against them.
The funding goal looks reasonable given the overall interest in the property. I dabbled a bit in Jovian Chronicles years ago in the late 90s but I haven't followed it since. Did Dave change the rules?
I think it got it's own Alpha/Beta rule set, at least for the fleet scale that this KS is for. I'm really not that interested in FS games at the moment though, so I really haven't been paying attention.
I picked up the Exos and Fighters to use for the old Lightning Strike system despite owning dozens of the larger ones. Assembly on the larger ones SUCKS and most are still in blister, but the fleet scale is all single piece or 2-piece. Still need to finish the ships and actually get a game w/ them, but I love the smaller scale Exos, may pick up some of these when they hit retail since a lot of these designs were never actually made in the old scale
Thanks for the clarification. I've still got the old rulebooks for both JC and LS (iirc both editions) somewhere in the basement but the figs are long gone in my case. I'm not the target audience for that kickstarter but I wish them luck in the crowdfunding.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I'm thinking about getting a RAFM Cobra - it'd be 2.5" tall vs 1.5" tall?
None of mine are assembled but still in the blister. I saw that a ton of RAFM stuff popped up on ebay for reasonable buy it now prices. I was tempted but my pile of shame is already too high. I'll check my Grizzlies if you want although I'm not sure how that'll translate over.
I measured last night but forgot to post it. My grizzlies are about 52-54mm to the top of the missle pods which is usually the highest point. The kodiak comes in a bit taller at around 58mm to the top of the AGM launcher on the back. I don't have my models mounted on bases so that's the heights of the models themselves and it obviously varies a bit depending on how you pose them.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Thanks! Somehow, I thought the RAFM models would be bigger, like a SM dreadnought
The striders were pretty big with the mammoth iirc being bigger/heavier/deadlier in a sock than an old metal 2nd edition SM dread. The gears were a big under old Tau crisis suit size.
The Cobra looks great, even on the undersized base. I'm estimating that a 1/144 scale Tactical Gear comes roughly to the waist of the RAFM version, so they will be hugely imposing by comparison.
Taking it to the next level, I kind of want a RAFM Mammoth... I should probably hold off for maybe later.
That's one of the few pics I found back when I was doing my own searches for Rafm minis and also found it helpful. For a time, I actually considered doing a Tau crisis suit army with RAFM HG minis but decided against it eventually.
FWIW, I finally put up a PDF version of my old comic book format Tales from Terra Nova Issue #1 battle report from years ago. God, that was the last full game that I played with a voluntary, willing opponent and it was around 4-5 years (?) ago back during the "alpha" phase iirc of what would become the current ruleset (although I used the old blitz L&L format plus maybe some of my house rules). I have no idea why the link doesn't want to work here in the post while centered but I've tried to edit it a bunch of times.
Thanks... it's just a conversion to the PDF but otherwise unchanged. It was a bit depressing to realize that the report years ago was of my last real HG game against a willing opponent. :( By willing I mean someone who, when offered a game, simply said yes and didn't need to be bargained with or cajoled. (like "I'm here for x-wing... If you'll play that with me first, I'll maybe try HG") All of us here (except JohnHwang) were still posting on and/or not banned from the official forum and there was some excitement at the idea of upcoming plastics even if the reveal of the new rules was a complete shitshow.
warboss wrote: All of us here (except JohnHwang) were still posting on and/or not banned from the official forum and there was some excitement at the idea of upcoming plastics even if the reveal of the new rules was a complete shitshow.
I didn't even bother with the official forum, because I knew where it'd end up.
Yeah, a few years both for posting and playing in my case. The number of long time posters I recognize and have interacted with that are still posting you can fit on one hand... and the new blood can fit on the other. I know some of the conversation has switched over to facebook or maybe even discord (not sure about that last one though).
Mmmpi wrote: I'd play you guys. It's a bit of an expensive trip.
I'll cover a drink and a snack at the FLGS counter if it helps to sweeten the pot.
I might take you up on it in, though you'll have to wait until my contract expires. What part of the US?
Thanks and I might take you up on the offer. I don't want to doxx myself but I'm in the southeast so let me know when you're back and we'll see if it works.
It's one of the last waves that came out so it's a bit rarer. I don't believe it's supported in the current rules (and I don't recall if it was over in the older blitz rules as it was strictly a RAFM thing that never got downsized to tactical scale). It's basically a heavy (guided?) mortar on the back of a cobra that has the stabilizer trait (the triple prongs you see on towed artillery). Ashley actually as to my knowledge the only pic of the contents on the internet.
warboss wrote: It's one of the last waves that came out so it's a bit rarer. I don't believe it's supported in the current rules (and I don't recall if it was over in the older blitz rules as it was strictly a RAFM thing that never got downsized to tactical scale). It's basically a heavy (guided?) mortar on the back of a cobra that has the stabilizer trait (the triple prongs you see on towed artillery). Ashley actually as to my knowledge the only pic of the contents on the internet.
Cheers for the mention and link. I've been a bit unwell the last six months and haven't done much model-making. Must get back in the saddle, I'm so behind on everything.
Mmmpi wrote:The current rules have it, but it doesn't currently have a model. It has a MFM and a CBS.
Thanks for the update as I don't really follow the current rules. I'm a bit surprised and impressed that it made it as I don't recall it having a model during the blitz era. Did I get that part wrong too?
Paint it Pink wrote:
Cheers for the mention and link. I've been a bit unwell the last six months and haven't done much model-making. Must get back in the saddle, I'm so behind on everything.
Thanks for putting it up! There is a bit of a dearth of RAFM pics out there especially "naked" straight from the blister.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Thanks for the link, appreciate it!
Having though about it, I want a Blitz-scale Support Cobra for conversion work, so I need to keep an eye out for that.
I too understand the need to scratch that itch.
They were painted long ago but that's the only close up of the regular cobras I have in my old gallery.
To close out the year, I'm going to be building Heavy Gear minis.
As they look ridiculous on the 25mm hex bases, I plan to upgrade them to larger rounds where the feet don't overlap quite so comically.
From initial measurement, almost all Gears will be well-sized on a 32mm round base, except for the large Fire Support Gears, which go on a 40mm base.
As I only had 40mm round bases available, I started assembly lining my trio of CEF F2-19s. I've got their legs on the bases, along with their torsos. The 40mm rounds are just perfectly-sized.
I like how different they are compared to the Southern Black Mambas and Jaegers I've already built.
I need to order at last 35x 32mm round bases for the other minis, but I can still work on the big stuff!
While I was assembling my plastics from the KS I decided to skip the hexes too. Instead I got an absolute ton of packets of round bases from the pre-painted Confrontation game that went under.
I believe they're also 32mm and 40mm, just with a different slant bevel on the edge. They're thicker plastic too so pins to the base are more stable.
JohnHwangDD wrote: To close out the year, I'm going to be building Heavy Gear minis.
As they look ridiculous on the 25mm hex bases, I plan to upgrade them to larger rounds where the feet don't overlap quite so comically.
From initial measurement, almost all Gears will be well-sized on a 32mm round base, except for the large Fire Support Gears, which go on a 40mm base.
As I only had 40mm round bases available, I started assembly lining my trio of CEF F2-19s. I've got their legs on the bases, along with their torsos. The 40mm rounds are just perfectly-sized.
I like how different they are compared to the Southern Black Mambas and Jaegers I've already built.
I need to order at last 35x 32mm round bases for the other minis, but I can still work on the big stuff!
I agree and did the same thing a while back with my first HG after coming back into Blitz during the L&L era. I think I used 30mm (or 32mm?) for the regular gears and 40mm for the firesupport ones.
Right now, I'm choosing weapons for the CEF BF2-19s.
The base model has MLC, MRP, LATM, MCW, but I'm thinking I want:
1x Anti-Tank (-MLC, +MPA; -LATM +MATM) for the extra Anti-Armor firepower
2x Support (-MRP +MGM) for Indirect 3" AoE attack options
Also, everybody gets Jump Jets, because they look cool!
Is that reasonable? Do I actually want any base / Assault / Recon builds? They're Fire Support, so notionally, they're all about long range heavy firepower, right?
I won't be able to help with those unfortunately. I haven't looked at the rules in years and even when I was looking at them I had very little actual play experience. I agree with certainty though that jump jets look cool!
Out of curiosity, why the sudden uptick in official HG rules interest btw? I remember you working on your own streamlined ruleset a while back.
Oh, I just want to make the models to be officially playable under either ruleset. So the configuration should be "correct", but still look cool, and not terrible if I play them under official rules
Right now, I'm choosing weapons for the CEF BF2-19s.
The base model has MLC, MRP, LATM, MCW, but I'm thinking I want:
1x Anti-Tank (-MLC, +MPA; -LATM +MATM) for the extra Anti-Armor firepower
2x Support (-MRP +MGM) for Indirect 3" AoE attack options
Also, everybody gets Jump Jets, because they look cool!
Is that reasonable? Do I actually want any base / Assault / Recon builds? They're Fire Support, so notionally, they're all about long range heavy firepower, right?
My thoughts (Grain of salt, I haven't played much):
It would depend on Unit size and if you're planning on including a support unit or not.
If no support, I'd include a recon at four frames, in part to TD for your missiles and morters, and EW support.
You could probably skip the assault variant if you have sources of accurate direct fire. If not, maybe add an assault as a 5th or 6th man. It can also function as a decent point man with smoke launchers and it's shield.
If you are using a support unit, feel free to focus on heavy weapons.
Also, everybody gets Jump Jets, because they look cool!
OMFG. The idiot who sculpted the Jump Jets made them so that you can't run a long pin from one side, through the middle piece, into the other side. WTF? Why is the model engineering so bad? JFC
It's the Pod in a nutshell:
* cool concept, looks great
* idiot implementation, total PITA to use
Heavy Gear got me started in this whole hobby (specifically, HG2 on the PC.) I still have a small pile of minis (and a not-so-small pile of books!) that I absolutely refuse to let go of, no matter how many times I purge.
Same here (although in my case it was the art in the ads for the upcoming premiere of HGRPG at Gencon 1994 or 1995). After they discontinued/replaced both all my rulebooks and my minis in around two years, I found a way to let it go. Of course, I was sucked back around a decade later with the premiere of Blitz; that edition was also invalidated by L&L two years later but at least the minis were still good so that's improvement, right?!?! While I joke about it (and admittedly bring it up every chance I get), I paradoxically don't hold any grudge towards DP9 at all. I'm ambivalent towards the current rules largely because I've been unable to find anyone to try them out against in a regular fashion despite offering to use all of my own armies and accessories requiring no barrier of entry for potential opponents; I'm not a fan of the plastics myself (except for Caprice) but the fact that they didn't invalidate my metal minis means that I don't really mind their introduction either as I can just ignore them. I occasionally slip up and buy HG stuff (like my large haul two years ago of nostalgic RAFM minis and just a few months ago of a few more) but I've pretty much resigned myself to be that guy... the old grognard who talks about gaming/editions/IPs in years gone by.
GW and 40k, despite the improvements in 8th edition, has pretty much left me in the rear view mirror as I'm not a fan of that "combined arm$" style of game with superheavies fighting in every skirmish. Other financial choices I've made (Robotech Tactics and Halo Fleet Battles, I'm looking at you!) have ended badly as well. No one seems interested in the RPGs I'd like to play/run locally either (Shadowrun, Star Trek, 40k). It's a bit sad but dakka and my increasingly infrequent blog entries are my only forays into gaming as of late.
BTW, is your gamer pic from the Shadowrun pc/mobile games from a few years back like Returns and Hong Kong? I enjoyed that trio of games as well if that's the case.
To hope for anything from DP9 is setting yourself up for a letdown.
I went and checked their boards, the last post about HG Blitz version whatever is dated from july. The last one on the "beta rules" section is from one month ago.
I've moved to X-Wing and FoW a few years ago, and I've been a happy puppy since.
You're forgetting the mini of the year (as in the only new miniature produced in 2018 and not say a contest for best of)... the 2018 chibi. Take that, you yellow vested pessimist!
HudsonD wrote: I've moved to X-Wing and FoW a few years ago, and I've been a happy puppy since.
Unfortunately, neither really scratch that heavy battle armor/mecha itch. I have a bigger Battletech presence in my local market than Heavy Gear. Otherwise, the only other options are Space Marines, Tau, or Khador. I am bored of Space Marines, I can't stand Khador., and I don't have the money to get in to a 40K army right now.
Charistoph wrote: I have a bigger Battletech presence in my local market than Heavy Gear.
I don't know if that's depressing or not.
The answer is, yes. There are actually quite a few people who still have their old Battletech stuff, and a couple that have gotten the newer stuff. But I've only seen one or two with Heavy Gear, and the only place that sold Heavy Gear was a card shop at the edge of the metropolis.
JohnHwangDD wrote: That sounds about right. I have never seen HG played in the wild, nor carried in volume at any shop.
It's a bit more common in Canada, especially as you get closer to Montreal, where DP9 is located. Still not common, however.
I can't tell if you're talking about Heavy Gear or poutine... or both! Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate! And just in time for the holidays, some corporate skulduggery courtesy of Stompy Bot/whatever they're calling themselves now.
Apparently the HG Assault game that has been inaccessible on steam for half this year was put on sort of sketchy platform for sale though dubious means according to the update. Lawsuits, like snowflakes, are flying every which way this holiday season! In the meantime, no one can access what they bought.
I once saw a game of HG played in my flgs. The store doesn’t carry any of it and the players were hoping to generate interest.
There’s a guy that plays BT locally. It’s pretty much the only game he’s played since the 80’s and he is the least friendly person around, so it is rare to see it actually getting played. When it is, nobody at that table is having any fun.
n815e wrote: I once saw a game of HG played in my flgs. The store doesn’t carry any of it and the players were hoping to generate interest.
There’s a guy that plays BT locally. It’s pretty much the only game he’s played since the 80’s and he is the least friendly person around, so it is rare to see it actually getting played. When it is, nobody at that table is having any fun.
You know, it wouldn't take much to fluff a crossover game. Nobody understands Battletech's hyperspace, not really. A mis-jump creates a gate connected to the Caprician network, and poof! Robotech vs VOTOMS. Er, I mean...
Gears are more the scale of Protomechs, though. One-on-one a mech's gonna win, but then gears are meant for actual warfare, not semi-ritualized, semi-knightly, semi-combat. So, do we have the Black Talons pop out in 3025 and fight some mercs? Or pop out in the Clan homeworlds, and have a hilarious misunderstanding, thinking it's a lost colony? Could be a fun game, one day.
I feel like the Wobbies would be BIG fans of FLAILs.
The Inner Sphere would probably LOVE Gears, as they provide some of the advantages of Protomechs, but without the issues of the psychotic breakdowns or being forever a quadriplegic. The AI would also be superior, which leads to other interesting implications for all of humanity.
Terra Nova could probably learn a lot of battlemech engineering which would vastly increase the potency of Gear Striders, to say nothing of what Aerospace Fighters could do to change that landscape.
Does <300 followers count as big though in the land that birthed the robot combat genre and more specifically VOTOMS? Don't get me wrong... I'm glad that folks are having fun with it regardless of where they are but I don't see that count as much more significant than facebook likes on a page personally. I'll admit though that I'm not particularly social media savvy so maybe I'm wrong.
I'm a bit surprised that no one seems to comment on the internet that lawsuits are flying back and forth between the new stompy bot and the old names associated with stompy bot with regards to the HGA pc game.
warboss wrote: Does <300 followers count as big though in the land that birthed the robot combat genre and more specifically VOTOMS? Don't get me wrong... I'm glad that folks are having fun with it regardless of where they are but I don't see that count as much more significant than facebook likes on a page personally. I'll admit though that I'm not particularly social media savvy so maybe I'm wrong.
I'm a bit surprised that no one seems to comment on the internet that lawsuits are flying back and forth between the new stompy bot and the old names associated with stompy bot with regards to the HGA pc game.
What's left to say about Stompy Bot?
Remember the time they called us all jerks for their kickstarter failing? Good times, good times.
Remember the time they called us all jerks for their kickstarter failing? Good times, good times.
Yup, but that was the old Stompy Bot... the guys who, according to the new Blocplay, signed away the rights to publish HGA on an alternate platform that they just created for that purpose when they supposedly had no authorization to do so. The new Blocplay is totally different in that they want nothing to do with HGA or the people who paid money for it.
So MekTek made a great reputation for themselves in the modding community, became StompyBot and destroyed their reputation with HGA. Now a whole other company has bought the StompyBot name? Is the MekTek group still doing anything related to HG, and is the new StompyBot/Blocplay doing anything?
Firebreak wrote: So MekTek made a great reputation for themselves in the modding community, became StompyBot and destroyed their reputation with HGA. Now a whole other company has bought the StompyBot name? Is the MekTek group still doing anything related to HG, and is the new StompyBot/Blocplay doing anything?
Not so much. MekTek was always seen as a stubborn group of modders, forcing people to use there awful MekTek Launcher. They've always had an air of "We know best, you don't" Even when they clearly didn't know what the heck they were doing.
ferrous wrote: Not so much. MekTek was always seen as a stubborn group of modders, forcing people to use there awful MekTek Launcher. They've always had an air of "We know best, you don't" Even when they clearly didn't know what the heck they were doing.
Did not know that! I thought they were very well-liked, and that was what got them the job, so to speak.
Is Blocplay actually different people, or just a name change?
According to the Canadian stock exchange site I linked, they seemed to have been trying to raise capital and kept selling off shares. Eventually they joined up with another company that specialized in that blocplay cryptomining distribution system combo (or whatever it is) and a bunch of people were forced out including John Nguyen who used to work at DP9 and the guy who came here years ago to school us on how great HGA was actually doing according to him without telling us that he worked for the company initially (as the chief technical officer?). After they were out, the name change to blocplay happened and apparently the developers were all let go (according to the comments on Steam for the game from someone who has defended the game for years despite the lack of progress). Somehow access to steam was lost on the developer side and 6 months of silence followed until the surprise announcement on facebook of this new company/platform hosting HGA. When I saw that, I went to the stock website and saw the post about lawsuits going back and forth. Take the above with a grain of salt though as it's just off the top of my head gathered from skimming the posts at the stock website every month or so.
From my outsider's perspective looking in, it seems like it's a choice between the people that took all the money and have strung everyone along for years without making a fully functioning product as promised versus new guys who want nothing to do with the old project and promises. I'm not sure if I have a preference between keeping the project shambling along like a Walking Dead zombie or just putting a bullet in HGA's head and burying it. I didn't back the crowdfunding though so I have the luxury of no money on the line regardless.
I think if you were to go to a PC game forum, you'd find the HGA commentary. Not here or other TTWG forums.
Doesn't cover all of Japan, but a store "near" me apparently makes a large (his words) yearly order. It seems he mostly sells to painters, though GW would be in the same boat if it wasn't for the US military and expats.
Doesn't cover all of Japan, but a store "near" me apparently makes a large (his words) yearly order. It seems he mostly sells to painters, though GW would be in the same boat if it wasn't for the US military and expats.
Sure, but then Dakka isn't comprehensive, either. I just think that 300 is a tiny number in the grand scheme of things, although it could be a good-sized number for something as niche as HG.
The HG minis *are* nice, that's for sure. Or rather, were. I wonder what his customers think of the new plastics.
Mmmpi wrote: I guess he's sold most of his last order of starters, and is looking forward to the new ones.
I don't disagree with the low numbers though. 300 isn't much.
Also, the guy I spoke with is making consistent sales of HG stuff, not brisk sales.
But he is willing to put in special orders, and doesn't charge shipping, so I may have found a local source.
At least the owner is supporting the game and the interested customers which is a plus for both. Over the years, I've seen plenty of complaints on the internet about no one stocking the game outside of North America once Wayland cleared out their EU distributor stockpile. Heck, most of us in the home region of North America don't have local stores that stock it by default and at best have to special order. It's been years since I looked at internet retailers so I don't even know if they started stocking the plastic kits since the release; years ago, most of them cleared out their metal/resin stock and I took advantage of some of those deals.
Just curious: has anyone actually ever *played* a game of Heavy Gear Arena?
I wanted to try running a campaign, but the rules are kinda incomprehensible. So I looked up to see if anyone had made a video or an easy tutorial to explain the basic flow of the game, and 100% of the content I've found are either reviews of the starter set (that only address the quality of the minis) and unboxing videos of the starter set. I'm starting to think that Robert DuBois and I are the only two people who have ever tried to play a game (and lord knows, he doesn't respond to email...).
I really like the idea of super tight-quarters Gear skirmishes, and a WWE-style campaign, but it feels like I'm going to be the only person on Earth playing this game, and it'd be nice to have an "expert" to bounce ideas/questions off of.
I tried playing both versions of Blitz before giving up and writing KOG light; I never attempted Arena, even though I own the Arena Spitting Cobra. I am curious as well.
semifraki wrote: Just curious: has anyone actually ever *played* a game of Heavy Gear Arena?
I wanted to try running a campaign, but the rules are kinda incomprehensible. So I looked up to see if anyone had made a video or an easy tutorial to explain the basic flow of the game, and 100% of the content I've found are either reviews of the starter set (that only address the quality of the minis) and unboxing videos of the starter set. I'm starting to think that Robert DuBois and I are the only two people who have ever tried to play a game (and lord knows, he doesn't respond to email...).
I really like the idea of super tight-quarters Gear skirmishes, and a WWE-style campaign, but it feels like I'm going to be the only person on Earth playing this game, and it'd be nice to have an "expert" to bounce ideas/questions off of.
Fairly certain no one ever played a game of Arena, especially Robert.
semifraki wrote: Just curious: has anyone actually ever *played* a game of Heavy Gear Arena?
I wanted to try running a campaign, but the rules are kinda incomprehensible. So I looked up to see if anyone had made a video or an easy tutorial to explain the basic flow of the game, and 100% of the content I've found are either reviews of the starter set (that only address the quality of the minis) and unboxing videos of the starter set. I'm starting to think that Robert DuBois and I are the only two people who have ever tried to play a game (and lord knows, he doesn't respond to email...).
I really like the idea of super tight-quarters Gear skirmishes, and a WWE-style campaign, but it feels like I'm going to be the only person on Earth playing this game, and it'd be nice to have an "expert" to bounce ideas/questions off of.
Not me. I was active on the DP9 forums when it was announced (and for years afterwards) and the few conversations I saw about it typically made it sound like a fan written mess of a ruleset that was both unbalanced and contradictory/incomplete on top of the poor editing you normally found in DP9 products of that era. You'd probably have more luck combing through that subforum there if it still exists.
I was about to post that it's understandable given that it's a discontinued game but it is still available apparently on DP9's store! At $40 for a 112pg color rulebook....
Yea, DP9's website is... ... ... suspect at best.
Man, it's so frustrating seeing such a cool brand like Heavy Gear languish like this. You just want to shake them and say "DO THE BARE MINIMUM YOU NEED TO DO TO SUCCEED!" Hire a competent web designer. Get a copywriter to look over the books. Play test...like...at all. If this were any other industry, a competitor would have staged a hostile takeover by now.
In theory, moving from metal to plastic, and streamlining the rules with community review *was* the bare minimum required to succeed, and yet, here we are.
semifraki wrote: Yea, DP9's website is... ... ... suspect at best.
Man, it's so frustrating seeing such a cool brand like Heavy Gear languish like this. You just want to shake them and say "DO THE BARE MINIMUM YOU NEED TO DO TO SUCCEED!" Hire a competent web designer. Get a copywriter to look over the books. Play test...like...at all. If this were any other industry, a competitor would have staged a hostile takeover by now.
They do have a competent web designer and he actually posts here on occasion. The bigger question would be how many hours they're paying him for on an ongoing basis to maintain, secure, and update the website. It's an ongoing process and therefore expense.
semifraki wrote:So I'm trying to write this campaign, and it revolves around a CEF capital ship crash landing in the Cajun Plains near Baton Rouge.
Do any of the sourcebooks cover large CEF ships and/or the Northern Acadians?
Not sure. I know some of the Blitz era books had landships on the cover like this so I'd guess your best bet would be to look in the War for Terra Nova series for big stuff like that. Being Blitz era books, though, they're not likely to have much backstory since they're campaign focused.
Maybe some of the older 1st/2nd edition RPG books have some info but I don't have any definitive knowledge on that personally.
Mmmpi wrote:So, a while back I posted a pair of lists. I finally got around to getting a start, and will be working on Lt. Reha's Souped up Hunter (Hunter XMG).
Sounds cool. I always wanted to use the HGA hunter as an XMG as it was the only 3D model that I liked in that game (at least from the ones revealed that I saw). Got pics of your model?
semifraki wrote: So I'm trying to write this campaign, and it revolves around a CEF capital ship crash landing in the Cajun Plains near Baton Rouge.
Do any of the sourcebooks cover large CEF ships and/or the Northern Acadians?
Black Talon - Return to Cats Eye has plans of a CEF drop-pod carrier and individual drop pods. It's a big space ship but mainly cockpit, engines and a million hardpoints for drop pods. Two pages of schematics, nothing else.
Shattered Peace - The war for Terra Nova book #1 has an Assault Lander which is a dropship that can fit nine hovertanks, twelve Frames and a platoon or two of GRELs. Two pages of schematics with a paragraph of fluff.
Not exactly Capital ships, but it's something I guess? Shattered peace also has one of the Blitz missions take place on top of a CEF space ship, in space, but we only see a piece of terrain and no further info about the ship itself.
Terra Nova Gambit - The war for Terra Nova book #2 has one page of schematics and one paragraph of text for an Utopia capital ship.
I don't know if any pre-blitz books have the info you need.
semifraki wrote: So I'm trying to write this campaign, and it revolves around a CEF capital ship crash landing in the Cajun Plains near Baton Rouge.
Do any of the sourcebooks cover large CEF ships and/or the Northern Acadians?
Black Talon - Return to Cats Eye has plans of a CEF drop-pod carrier and individual drop pods. It's a big space ship but mainly cockpit, engines and a million hardpoints for drop pods. Two pages of schematics, nothing else.
Shattered Peace - The war for Terra Nova book #1 has an Assault Lander which is a dropship that can fit nine hovertanks, twelve Frames and a platoon or two of GRELs. Two pages of schematics with a paragraph of fluff.
Not exactly Capital ships, but it's something I guess? Shattered peace also has one of the Blitz missions take place on top of a CEF space ship, in space, but we only see a piece of terrain and no further info about the ship itself.
Terra Nova Gambit - The war for Terra Nova book #2 has one page of schematics and one paragraph of text for an Utopia capital ship.
I don't know if any pre-blitz books have the info you need.
Awesome! I think I'll check out Terra Nova Gambit and see what I find - I'm basically trying to write this campaign as a dungeon crawl, which is why I was so interested in Arena rules (I figured it would have better options for close quarters). I figure a capital ship wreckage would make for a cool setting - I just need to work the fluff out.
semifraki wrote: Just curious: has anyone actually ever *played* a game of Heavy Gear Arena?
I wanted to try running a campaign, but the rules are kinda incomprehensible. So I looked up to see if anyone had made a video or an easy tutorial to explain the basic flow of the game, and 100% of the content I've found are either reviews of the starter set (that only address the quality of the minis) and unboxing videos of the starter set. I'm starting to think that Robert DuBois and I are the only two people who have ever tried to play a game (and lord knows, he doesn't respond to email...).
I really like the idea of super tight-quarters Gear skirmishes, and a WWE-style campaign, but it feels like I'm going to be the only person on Earth playing this game, and it'd be nice to have an "expert" to bounce ideas/questions off of.
Friendly tip: Any non-sycophant I've ever talked to with direct knowledge have all said Robert has never been able to play any of the DP9 games they tried with him according to the rules. But if he's already taking a while to respond to you, something you did or said somehow insulted him and you're probably never going to be able to get on his good side.
It seems like a few owners on BGG did manage to somewhat play Arena, and supposedly it was playtested, but well; also note that Arena was given a 4/5 complexity rating by users!
semifraki wrote: Yea, DP9's website is... ... ... suspect at best. Man, it's so frustrating seeing such a cool brand like Heavy Gear languish like this.
You just want to shake them and say "DO THE BARE MINIMUM YOU NEED TO DO TO SUCCEED!"
Get a copywriter to look over the books. Play test...like...at all. If this were any other industry, a competitor would have staged a hostile takeover by now.
Having participated in three (or so?) DP9 "play tests processes", which apparently aren't designed to uncover flaws, as others here can relate;
Telling most of the folks "running" those playtests that you found a way to break something, how maybe the rules for [X] were unclear/faulty, or why a poorly thought-out pet idea/easter egg inclusion didn't work, was akin to prejudged heretics & apostates telling a holy inquisition about why they felt there is no God as the wood is being piled. ... then things got really nasty.
semifraki wrote: I'm basically trying to write this campaign as a dungeon crawl, which is why I was so interested in Arena rules (I figured it would have better options for close quarters).
Just how much rules complexity do you think that you need for your game? The DP9 rules are exceedingly complex, and not at all player-friendly. If you don't need high complexity rules, you can go with the current Blitz rules. Or, you can use my KOGlight rules.
Arena was a very good idea very poorly executed, to the point of it being basically unplayable RAW. Kinda like the computer game, only you can try to play without their servers.
In hindsight, one takes a look at things like Aristeia and sees what HGA could have been. It is a damn shame.
As to Robert not answering your mails... well, it could be worse
semifraki wrote: Just curious: has anyone actually ever *played* a game of Heavy Gear Arena?
I wanted to try running a campaign, but the rules are kinda incomprehensible. So I looked up to see if anyone had made a video or an easy tutorial to explain the basic flow of the game, and 100% of the content I've found are either reviews of the starter set (that only address the quality of the minis) and unboxing videos of the starter set. I'm starting to think that Robert DuBois and I are the only two people who have ever tried to play a game (and lord knows, he doesn't respond to email...).
I really like the idea of super tight-quarters Gear skirmishes, and a WWE-style campaign, but it feels like I'm going to be the only person on Earth playing this game, and it'd be nice to have an "expert" to bounce ideas/questions off of.
I played it a couple of times.
Back when it first came out, I loved the idea behind it. I got the deluxe edition of the game (or whatever it was called) with the four minis, painted them up, started work on some scenery (DP9 wrote up a good article on putting together arena terrain), and went down to my local FLGS to try it out.
My vague recollection is that the combat rules are decent and mostly okay. There's an oddity or two in there. For instance, iirc if your gear pilot wants to try and perform a jump off of a ramp but fails his skill check, then he doesn't screw up the jump. Instead, he just stops short of the jump. This had us scratching our heads.
But aside from the odd moment like that, the combat rules worked. And that shouldn't be all that big of a surprise, since they were based off of the regular HG rules.
The big problems were in the campaign system. In particular, the salary cap stuff was just flat out not functional. I decided to put together a test team, so the first thing that I did was pick the type of team. No problem here. Then I checked the salary cap, and went to go purchase some gears. Basically, even using nothing but modified construction gears (i.e. the cheapest things available), it was impossible to put together a team that was under the salary cap. I noted this on the official forums. We didn't get any input from DP9. But the concensus from other players at the time was that the cap rules were essentially a confusing mess, the way that the cap rules seemed designed to work essentially didn't work, and some suggested "rules interpretations" were made which more or less worked, though they seemed to defeat the implied purpose of even having the caps.
If this new rules writer, the Rooster, is a long time fan, was he/she just not active on the forums? It the most likely answers and it looks like it's a completely new account with the first post in the thread. I suppose it could be a more well known account from back in the day but, in that case, why not use the original account? Regardless, I wish Rooster luck in trying to right the ship.
warboss wrote: If this new rules writer, the Rooster, is a long time fan, was he/she just not active on the forums? It the most likely answers and it looks like it's a completely new account with the first post in the thread. I suppose it could be a more well known account from back in the day but, in that case, why not use the original account? Regardless, I wish Rooster luck in trying to right the ship.
Maybe he was a controversial figure, and maybe they're looking to give him/her a fresh start?
Or maybe this is Robert's Chris Gaines moment...
The controversial posters like smilodon and albertorius are mostly banned already and the majority of the top 10 posters in terms of post count and/or upvotes don't bother posting regardless of whether they're supportive or not. I don't see any reason for someone who is vocally supportive to worry about their past posting history. It's probably a long time customer previously inactive but willing to work for free or next to nothing.
The real news is that rules for banished Gears are coming back, and DP9 is finally going to make some of the models that never saw the light of day. Headhunters? Hell yes. Will my (two!) HAC SD Jagers be legal again? Who knows?
Good to hear. I haven't kept up with what is or isn't allowed in the past couple of rules revisions going back a few years at this point but it was a big sticking point for me back when the alpha/beta rules came out initially.
I have to admit I am almost completely out of touch with the current ruleset, so I don't think I could evaluate any of the proposed/upcoming changes... has anyone fluent with the current rules taken a look at them? Any thoughts?
Albertorius wrote: I have to admit I am almost completely out of touch with the current ruleset, so I don't think I could evaluate any of the proposed/upcoming changes... has anyone fluent with the current rules taken a look at them? Any thoughts?
While much of the discussion has been on revising UA's, the forum player base seems to want the focus to be on revising and cleaning up the rules. Maybe not less complex ones (complexity isn't inherently bad), but clearer ones.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Hi, Ashley! Have you looked at KOG light? It's the ultralight beginner-friendly version of HG. If you have questions, I'm happy to help.
I have, very slick, but it has two problems for me. The first is that it's a niche variant of an already niche genre, where BattleTech is the 800lbs gorilla. Second,the I-go U-go won't float the boat of my fellow BattleTech grognards as it will feel like a step backwards.
Realistically, I have to pitch HGB to BattleTech players as an alternative to playing classic or Alpha Strike. And any HG game has to compete with other games like SW X-wing or Infinity, both of which feel more modern from their play sequences.
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warboss wrote: Definitely chime in on the official forums. You're the type of new blood that they're hoping for.
Gosh, the game is in real trouble if I'm the new blood they're hoping for. ;-)
JohnHwangDD wrote: Hi, Ashley! Have you looked at KOG light? It's the ultralight beginner-friendly version of HG. If you have questions, I'm happy to help.
I have, very slick, but it has two problems for me. The first is that it's a niche variant of an already niche genre, where BattleTech is the 800lbs gorilla. Second,the I-go U-go won't float the boat of my fellow BattleTech grognards as it will feel like a step backwards.
Realistically, I have to pitch HGB to BattleTech players as an alternative to playing classic or Alpha Strike. And any HG game has to compete with other games like SW X-wing or Infinity, both of which feel more modern from their play sequences.
OK, no worries. If it won't work for your group, that's OK - it's more for newbies to the genre, along with people who can't/won't get into the full complexity of something like HG or CBT. Thanks for giving it a look.
warboss wrote: Definitely chime in on the official forums. You're the type of new blood that they're hoping for.
Gosh, the game is in real trouble if I'm the new blood they're hoping for. ;-)
Obviously I know you're joking but, in all seriousness, don't sell yourself short. You've demonstrated proven interest in HG by pledging for the kickstarter yet don't have enough figs from that purchase to flesh out any one faction with options so you're likely to get additional purchases if hooked (even though you have some metals already). Additionally, you're not saddled with old forum drama and/or a history of being screwed over by DP9.
Having just had a quick skim through the rules there's a lot to like.
But, for me, I found the size of the text, its leading (space between lines), and use of sans-serif font for the body text, too hard to read. Pages are too tightly composed with not enough white space in the right places.
Rant mode on:
Units, models and other terms that appear to be equivalents or used to mean similar things. IMNSHO terms need to be used consistently and clearly.
I would do away with units and call groups of models, squads (cadres for faction flavour). Models are models, not units. A players army is made up of squads; squads have four to six models depending on function (for example).
Do away with abbreviations GP, AS, FS etc., etc. At best it's flavour, at worst it's an impenetrable wall of jargon.
A squads function emerges from the selection of models assembled in said squad. YMMV.
Albertorius wrote: I had an idle thought earlier... How long has it been since DP9 started having a beta ruleset instead of a ruleset?
It feels like it's been a long while since last they had a regular rulebook, digital or otherwise.
Didn't they have a final version that came out after the plastic North vs. South vs CEF plastic starter? I'm out of date by a few years but I thought I downloaded at some point a rulebook that didn't have a greek numeric disclaimer but I could be mistaken as I didn't actually read through it let alone play with it.
Albertorius wrote: I had an idle thought earlier... How long has it been since DP9 started having a beta ruleset instead of a ruleset?
It feels like it's been a long while since last they had a regular rulebook, digital or otherwise.
Didn't they have a final version that came out after the plastic North vs. South vs CEF plastic starter? I'm out of date by a few years but I thought I downloaded at some point a rulebook that didn't have a greek numeric disclaimer but I could be mistaken as I didn't actually read through it let alone play with it.
I honestly have no idea. AFAIK, they just sent the latest beta printed.
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Mmmpi wrote: Well, they're back to an Alpha at the moment.
I honestly have no idea. AFAIK, they just sent the latest beta printed.
I did end up finding out that my version of the PDF was from 2016 (luckily it's in the name of the download file) so I'm definitely out of date.
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Mmmpi wrote: So, it looks like they're working on the store issue. Where people would be redirected to spam sites.
I've been getting that problem on and off for years when I go to the dp9.com domain (but not to the forum). I haven't been there for a while though so can't comment on any recent changes.
Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure how I feel about that TBH. I've been a vocal critic of Dp9's rinse and repeat almost biennial edition cycle but the "living" ruleset was supposed to fix that with free updates instead of the previous full price for minimal changes strategy. I'd have expected it to have been update at a minimum yearly and I'm a bit surprised/disappointed that it wasn't touched for years but on the other hand (for better or worse) customers had a stable ruleset for almost three years. I'd put it more on life support rather than call it "living" with over two years without a change but I suppose losing the half of the company (Dave) that focused on that part would put a wrench in the works.
Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure how I feel about that TBH. I've been a vocal critic of Dp9's rinse and repeat almost biennial edition cycle but the "living" ruleset was supposed to fix that with free updates instead of the previous full price for minimal changes strategy. I'd have expected it to have been update at a minimum yearly and I'm a bit surprised/disappointed that it wasn't touched for years but on the other hand (for better or worse) customers had a stable ruleset for almost three years. I'd put it more on life support rather than call it "living" with over two years without a change but I suppose losing the half of the company (Dave) that focused on that part would put a wrench in the works.
It had been updated, but the changes they made were poorly thought out, so the 2018 change got rolled back to the 2016 version. The current alpha is geared at bringing back older variants, clarifying the overly complicated rules, and making the Sub-lists both relevant and balanced.
They did bring in a person to work on coordinating play testing, rewrites, and suggestions, so while I'm assuming Rob has been behind the scenes, he hasn't done much up front.
Not trying to say everything is light, sugar, and happiness, but it does look like positive progress over the 2016 set. As for future updates, and how often, who know?
I'd agree with the two player starter even if I'm not a fan of most of the minis (the gears namely) that come in it as I strongly prefer the older metals' stylings myself. One thing that I'd tell them to avoid are the mostly resin models due to the price point especially in armies like caprice. If they want to start that army, I'd definitely steer them to the Caprice plastic kit as those did actually turn out pretty well. I'm not familiar enough with the current rules (whether the 2016 system or the current in progress test version) to comment on that specifically.
godswildcard wrote: So, you’ve got two people who’ve always been intrigued by heavy gear and are looking for something to fill the ‘complex game’ itch.
Let’s talk about how they start. That two-player starter box looks good. Any reason you wouldn’t recommend that? If not, how else would you start?
Agreed with Mmmpi and warboss, the two players starter set is a decent choice if you don't mind the minis. Personally, I found the new plastics (or, rather, the new northern and southern plastics) supremely disappointing, to the point of souring me on the whole line.
I'm not sure if you could get some of the "old" metals on the cheap, but if you do, that and the rules would also be a perfectly good starting point.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Got forwarded this, like, right now:
I mean... the writing was on the wall for years, now (and even more when suddenly their forum died), but it would have been nice to get this, to my mail, from Arkrite, instead of needing someone to forward it to me from DP9F.
Agreed with Mmmpi and warboss, the two players starter set is a decent choice if you don't mind the minis. Personally, I found the new plastics (or, rather, the new northern and southern plastics) supremely disappointing, to the point of souring me on the whole line.
I'm not sure if you could get some of the "old" metals on the cheap, but if you do, that and the rules would also be a perfectly good starting point.
I'd be curious to hear what newer players think of the plastics who didn't "grow up" with the metals over the decades and more specifically the LeClerc blitz era ones that reignited my interest in the game/universe after souring on it in the post-Rafm days. It might be that they don't see much of a difference or have a strong preference given the value in $$ that the plastic starters offer compared with full priced metals. Regardless, I'd still only recommend the Caprice plastics without reservation myself. That would be the only set that I'd consider collecting/building/playing if by some miracle a Heavy Gear scene sprouted up near me like magic.
I mean... the writing was on the wall for years, now (and even more when suddenly their forum died), but it would have been nice to get this, to my mail, from Arkrite, instead of needing someone to forward it to me from DP9F.
I'm sorry to hear about that for the backers who gave them money and just got some expensive patches in return (was there an alpha pdf release ever?). Now they just need to put a fork in the Heavy Gear Assault game since the company supposedly making it don't consider themselves game developers anymore and some players haven't been able to log in and actually play the tiny fraction of the gameplay they did release since a hurricane in late 2017.
Agreed with Mmmpi and warboss, the two players starter set is a decent choice if you don't mind the minis. Personally, I found the new plastics (or, rather, the new northern and southern plastics) supremely disappointing, to the point of souring me on the whole line.
I'm not sure if you could get some of the "old" metals on the cheap, but if you do, that and the rules would also be a perfectly good starting point.
I'd be curious to hear what newer players think of the plastics who didn't "grow up" with the metals over the decades and more specifically the LeClerc blitz era ones that reignited my interest in the game/universe after souring on it in the post-Rafm days. It might be that they don't see much of a difference or have a strong preference given the value in $$ that the plastic starters offer compared with full priced metals. Regardless, I'd still only recommend the Caprice plastics without reservation myself. That would be the only set that I'd consider collecting/building/playing if by some miracle a Heavy Gear scene sprouted up near me like magic.
My biggest issue with the plastics is that they don't look enough like the metals. The plastic hunters look like they should be a different gear entirely, or at the best a variant.
warboss wrote: I'd be curious to hear what newer players think of the plastics who didn't "grow up" with the metals
If you had never seen the metals, you might compare them with GW Terminator models (or other space soldiers). I don't think the resulting model is as good as what GW produces, looking more of a 1st gen toy robot than something modern.
Or, if we look at other Kickstarter product, compare with the Robotech models - those look better, even if the KS turned into a disaster due to greed, incompetence and mismanagement by Palladium.
What really gets me, though... is that they could have make it big, had they tried.
There's a lot of people that's actually interested in a good mecha action RPG, and HG had the worldbuilding to make it work, and make it big... but here we are.
And no, a "system agnostic" setting book, like some people are asking for, wouldn't cut it, IMO.
Because:
1) we already have that, it's called 2nd edition (seriously, you have setting stuff in spades, there, and the new "developments" can go feth themselves, thank you very much) and
2) System. fething. Matters.
As an example that there's actually an audience there for a good mecha action RPG system, I give you LANCER:
$280k and counting, 18 days to go, a year of free, open beta (you can download the full game right now if you want, too, and it will always be available), for a completely new setting and system (heavily inspired by SotDL and BitD) that's designed to add to the feeling of the game, not in the least to be a "systems agnostic" game (because, again, system matters).
And neither DP9 nor Arkrite could do even a fraction of this, with a setting that's arguably still one of the very best RPG scifi settings of all time and a system that is serviceable enough to be moddable to work (even if yes, very 90s).
I like how Lancer went with super clean resolution and tons of flavor options, even if balancing was kinda dumped on the GM. I'm not surprised that it does well on KS.
Pity that it doesn't have minis, but I get not doing minis when the real goal is rules. Perhaps they can go to Reaper down the line.
Was the Water Viper that boxy (re: Northern) in the old art? It looks more appropriate for NuCoal than the South. Still cool to see something new, in any case.
Hey, what's up! Yeah, this has basically been the secret rebel base for alot of old posters from the official forum.. some banned and others like myself who voluntarily stopped posting. I'm the grump formerly known as CrounchingGrizzly HiddenCheetah and I started this thread years ago in order to collect honest feedback about the game that couldn't just be deleted if inconvienent by Rob or Dave. It's effectively turned into the catch all general HG thread here. I don't recall if it was mentioned here before but I'm surprised/impressed that they did such a niche model like the water viper. Maybe we'll eventually get some mountaineering ones for the polar forces as well or other unique variants.
It seems they are releasing more new models and parts this year, like the Longbow Jager, but the stats may not be according to old fluff, instead they are meant to fill a niche in the current states of the armies, I think that is better for the game even if it makes no sense in the traditional fluff.
The Rooster guy is doing a good job at handling the new rules and what few players still post in the official forums.
I still miss some of the old rules like detection but the new rules is what is getting company support and new players like that, most people don't like playing dead rules with no support or new material, and they are better in some ways I think, so, I still be in the official for a while... and local players are getting an interest the game again.
Mmmpi wrote:They did release the lion and leopard for the north. Unless there are other mountaineering gears that don't have models yet.
I was referring to the classics like the mountain jaguar variant since they're making something as O G as the water viper. I'm not personally as familiar with the newest stuff myself.
HudsonD wrote:
warboss wrote: I'm surprised/impressed that they did such a niche model like the water viper.
Well, they had to release something this year
Now that's the sarcastic HudsonD I recognize and not some imposter offering his services to Robert yet again.
I can see the cheatah influence on this but I can't help but prefer the original single image we got in the oldBlitz blood debt book as I don't feel like this captures that well. I'll admit though that I feel that way regarding most of the plastic gears though. edit: spoilered the image... didn't realize how big it was natively.
Has anyone successfully extracted the hunter 3d model btw from the Heavy Gear Assault game? That's probably the only design in that source that I liked.
In related news, I'm a bit late to the party but it appears there was a new model (3d in this case) previewed over on the official forums earlier this week. I was quite surprised as I thought for the first time that they were finally making a plastic gear that visually appealed to me but this is actually a traditional pewter release. Regardless, it might be the first in print mini I buy in 4-5(?) years as I was a fan of the Nemesis Jaguar back in 1st edition.
Hm, that Nemesis looks nice... but seeing as Phil is still apparently painting their minis, I can't help but wonder why have they gone for 3d sculpting in this instance.
I do hope they pose it a bit for the actual miniature, though.
I think they are making everything 3d first, it is faster and easier.
It also seems to me they are giving free reigns to the sculptors as to what to produce, because the nemesis jaguar is such a fringe model compared to other variants it makes little sense to produce. But I like more new models so I got no problem with that.
Pointman wrote: I think they are making everything 3d first, it is faster and easier.
It also seems to me they are giving free reigns to the sculptors as to what to produce, because the nemesis jaguar is such a fringe model compared to other variants it makes little sense to produce. But I like more new models so I got no problem with that.
I'd say it's no more niche than the Fer de Lance and we got that around 5(?) years ago. It fills a specific role (commander/duelist specific gear) for one of the two big TN factions and looks cool too.
Pointman wrote: I think they are making everything 3d first, it is faster and easier.
It also seems to me they are giving free reigns to the sculptors as to what to produce, because the nemesis jaguar is such a fringe model compared to other variants it makes little sense to produce. But I like more new models so I got no problem with that.
I'd say it's no more niche than the Fer de Lance and we got that around 5(?) years ago. It fills a specific role (commander/duelist specific gear) for one of the two big TN factions and looks cool too.
Good point!
Compared to artwork everything looks ham-fisted these ones are going to be metal, though, so I expert them will be as good as previous blitz metals.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Man, the new models are so ham-fisted compared to artwork and metals.
Your peculiar love of the tactical era minis has clouded your judgement! Yeah, they're ham fisted admittedly but I think that works well at the scale and is preferable to tiny, tiny hands and weapons personally. I don't think though (outside of the chibi subset of minis) that the style works in larger scales and I prefer more realistic (as far as you can use that word in relation to the IP) scaling in the minis ala the original RAFM ones. YMMV.
Pointman wrote:Good point!
Compared to artwork everything looks ham-fisted these ones are going to be metal, though, so I expert them will be as good as previous blitz metals.
Thanks and agreed. I think they'll fit in well with my existing collection and occupy a place of honor next to my unpainted Kodiaks in my Northern to-do ziploc bag of gears. The futility of that won't stop me though and I'll likely pick one up once they hit ebay resellers. My local store has no interest in stocking them (and I can't blame them as their only customer for it) and I'm not going to pay full price plus shipping direct from DP9. I figure it'll be at least a few months before one the ebay folks (assuming any are left... haven't checked in a few years) sell them at a discount including shipping.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Man, the new models are so ham-fisted compared to artwork and metals.
Your peculiar love of the tactical era minis has clouded your judgement! Yeah, they're ham fisted admittedly but I think that works well at the scale and is preferable to tiny, tiny hands and weapons personally. I don't think though (outside of the chibi subset of minis) that the style works in larger scales and I prefer more realistic (as far as you can use that word in relation to the IP) scaling in the minis ala the original RAFM ones. YMMV.
Not just the hands, but the general klunkiness of the things. The proportions and shape are also way off - none of the gentle curves or subtle shaping.
They will never be like in the tactical (large scale) era.
It will probably will use the current jaguar and add the weapons, just like the longbow jager.
I have to agree that the old models I have seeing in pictures are somewhat better in look and more faithful to the drawings (specially like the command jager German helmet head), but they would be prohibitively expensive today.
This forum is like a "just talk thrash of dp9 forum", it's sad, I came here to see what the old boys where playing and what new things are they doing with the old material. Not much it seems.
Pointman wrote: They will never be like in the tactical (large scale) era.
It will probably will use the current jaguar and add the weapons, just like the longbow jager.
I have to agree that the old models I have seeing in pictures are somewhat better in look and more faithful to the drawings (specially like the command jager German helmet head), but they would be prohibitively expensive today.
This forum is like a "just talk thrash of dp9 forum", it's sad, I came here to see what the old boys where playing and what new things are they doing with the old material. Not much it seems.
I'm sorry that you feel that way but I don't know why you'd think that this would be an overall positive thread TBH. We have a bunch of folks who post here specifically because they can honestly discuss the game/company/IP.. something that they can't do either on the official forums nor on Brandon's facebook group (since Robert is in control effectively of both). The original purpose of this thread was to give constructive criticism as to why folks aren't playing the game in conjunction with the release of the then "pre-alpha" nuBlitz rules years ago. I started this thread because my constructive posts were disappearing from the official forum announcement thread (and, no, they weren't insulting or unnecessarily negative but rather a frank discussion of the problems at the time). Others who post here do so because they were banned from the official forum like Albertorius who committed the thoughtcrime of posting that he only backed the kickstarter for $1 iirc. I stopped posting on the official forums specifically because of angry trash talk from flash in the pan new posters who would insult long time players who had seen the same cycles several times before and were told to just shut up and "believe"/"hope" as if Heavy Gear fandom was some sort of religious cult in response to both problems with the rules like missing models/loadouts as well as actions of the company like initially refusing to replace miscasts on the first kickstarter. Just like always, those same die hard new fans stopped posting like clockwork after 6-12 months and us "trash talkers" are still here expressing interest in the IP. YMMV.
That said, I don't believe it's just trash talk here. When DP9 does something right, people who post here say so as well (see my comment about the Nemesis Jaguar)... it's just that DP9 doing something right isn't as frequent as doing something wrong. Regardless, you're obviously welcome to post positive things here as well and I'm curious to see the response.
I don't expect an "overall positive thread", just a little surprised it is as if not a single day have passed.
Maybe I was expecting the old player base to be playing something Heavy Gear related and only seeing the same snarky comments was kind of a downer. It have being what, 4 years already?
It's fine if you want to vent at every misstep of DP9 but is not what I was expecting, just a personal opinion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: About posting something positive, it is hard to say what may be considered positive, many in this forum don't like the direction the game is taking, so most of what may be considering positive will not be.
for example, I see more people playing the game and into demos than a few years ago (during the great exodus) and the way the Rooster guy is handling the new rules are very good. yes, many things are not 2ed equivalent but the current game play very well (I still miss the detection rules, though.).
Nurglitch wrote: Replicating those curves would have increased the time spent on the model by a couple of orders of magnitude, I would suspect.
Yeah, that would have taken, you know, actual efforts ?
"Meh, why bother ?" has been DP9's MO for years.
I've been informed that time is money where artists have been concerned. Mainly by the artists that have quoted and billed me. At some point you have to look at how much value that time adds to the product, how much you can afford, and it's never enough. As I understand it DP9 is back to being a one man show relying on contractors, which makes scheduling difficult as well, and there's a cost to that on top of what you pay the artists. I don't think they have the market, and hence the cash-flow, to do better. I mean, how much would you spend to get the 3D model looking like the artwork?
Pointman wrote: What you think of the new version of the rules?
IMO, despite being somewhat less 80s than they were, they're still way too 80s. Post-2010, games should be a lot faster and smoother, with rapid resolution and less memorization required. The Pod has only taken baby steps to whittle down a few rough corners, where I took a hatchet to the thing.
Nurglitch wrote: Replicating those curves would have increased the time spent on the model by a couple of orders of magnitude, I would suspect.
The model looks really cheap and rough, so maybe because the work they're showing was really quick and lazy?
Possibly. There's a lot of non-rounded corners on the mini, where the original art had the corners rounded off. The engine cowling should be broader and shorter and at a less acute angle.
There were the same problems in getting the first KS plastics looking right, it took several passes of feedback from the community (and still wasn't ideal), despite the 3D artists having access to a wealth of art and several generations worth of miniatures. But at the same time RAFM minis looked different from TAC minis which looked different from Blitz minis, so some NuBlitz minis looking different is just par for the course.
Each generation of miniatures has had its own issues. The RAFM era rocket pods were garbage, for example, while TAC guns were realistically small but they ended up looking puny as a result after the RAFM era's chunkier guns. But TAC era rockets brought in the rocket pod nubs, which were great. Phil's Blitz minis were probably the best generation overall, but Black Mambas lost some their endearing chubbyness.
The newer plastic NuCoal and Peace River looks much better than South and North plastics, specially the south, the south really got the short stick in the past kickstarter, but Caprice is much better now thanks to it.
Pointman wrote: I don't expect an "overall positive thread", just a little surprised it is as if not a single day have passed.
Maybe I was expecting the old player base to be playing something Heavy Gear related and only seeing the same snarky comments was kind of a downer. It have being what, 4 years already?
It's fine if you want to vent at every misstep of DP9 but is not what I was expecting, just a personal opinion.
In your opinion, what subjectively positive things have occurred in the last few years that we should be happy about? The rpg whose creators just threw up their hands and gave up after years of no real progress leaving backers with only expensive patches to show for their pledges? Or the HGA pc game in a genre that no one asked for that most customers haven't been able to play since late 2017 and whose creators have publicly stated that they're NOT game developers anymore but instead cryptocurrency/blockchain farmers? The plastics kickstarter that had by most counts mediocre results and whose rules have failed to ignite widespread interest in the game? The loss of effectively half the company and DP9 retreating from any real presence at the largest convention they go to for multiple years and the foreseeable future? The firesales from prominent independent retailers who used to sell DP9 prices both in NA and the EU combined with the ever present lack of retailers stocking the products locally leaving one full priced option for purchasing the full lineup? Those are the developments that I've noticed over the last couple of years. Am I missing a veritable fountain of positive news somewhere?
About posting something positive, it is hard to say what may be considered positive, many in this forum don't like the direction the game is taking, so most of what may be considering positive will not be.
for example, I see more people playing the game and into demos than a few years ago (during the great exodus) and the way the Rooster guy is handling the new rules are very good. yes, many things are not 2ed equivalent but the current game play very well (I still miss the detection rules, though.).
What you think of the new version of the rules?
I don't think any of us excluding Ashley have actually read the current trial rules of even the prior reversed iteration. I don't have any opinion as the last ones I read through were the 2016 version and even that was a cursory skimming without playing iirc.
If there eventually is positive practical news regarding HG, I expect that there will be rejoicing in the thread (admittedly not unanimous though). What won't cut the mustard (to use an old idiom) is wishful thinking and hopeful plans for the future. I can't speak for anyone else but I doubt that I'm the only one who is looking for positive practical results and not just the vague potential of them.
Now if you excuse me, I have to go shoo away some damn teenagers off my lawn...
Nurglitch wrote: Replicating those curves would have increased the time spent on the model by a couple of orders of magnitude, I would suspect.
The model looks really cheap and rough, so maybe because the work they're showing was really quick and lazy?
Possibly. There's a lot of non-rounded corners on the mini, where the original art had the corners rounded off. The engine cowling should be broader and shorter and at a less acute angle.
There were the same problems in getting the first KS plastics looking right, it took several passes of feedback from the community (and still wasn't ideal), despite the 3D artists having access to a wealth of art and several generations worth of miniatures. But at the same time RAFM minis looked different from TAC minis which looked different from Blitz minis, so some NuBlitz minis looking different is just par for the course.
While there were obvious design cues simply missed or dismissed as unimportant by both the sculptors and dp9, I suspect there were a fair amount of things that might not be possible with the relatively simple iirc single injection port two piece small molds they could afford. I suspect the results with larger more complex moulds would be different given what we see GW accomplish on a monthly basis.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If you look at the 2nd Edition "push-fit" Space Marines, curves aren't impossible, even for a basic mold.
Even the first kickstarter gears IMO are much more complex than those although not much more varied in pose/stiffness unfortunately. I'd rather have awesome looking monopose gears ala the recent 40k character minis that you have to convert yourself but at least look great out of the box than the awkwardly stiff minimal 2d plane pose variety on only a handful of joints in the first plastic gears. Did any plastic gears come out since that initial batch? I haven't followed the subsequent crowd funding campaigns much since the first. I know better posing was supposedly a priority but I don't if that was successes with regard to gears.
The new NuCoal look a lot better in the 3d models at least.
Still a little stiff the legs but with more and better joints so, maybe more varied possible poses.
You'll get a mix of WTF, and their ok. Which should be surprising because several of the people here wrote them.
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Pointman wrote: The new NuCoal look a lot better in the 3d models at least.
Still a little stiff the legs but with more and better joints so, maybe more varied possible poses.
While they look better than the N/S plastics, they also still look much worse then the existing metals.
I can understand some loss of detail, but the torsos are the wrong shapes, and the heads are elongated. Though I do think the Jerboas are better.
Pointman wrote: The new NuCoal look a lot better in the 3d models at least.
While they look better than the N/S plastics, they also still look much worse then the existing metals.
IMO, the metal Chasseur is a vastly superior sculpt compared to the proposed 3-D render: The weight of the curved surfaces and proportions are way off.
Mmmpi wrote: They did release the lion and leopard for the north. Unless there are other mountaineering gears that don't have models yet.
For the Northern models, as best I can recall after 4/5 years, the only "existing" statted variants were found in the Army List softcover for 1e/2e/3e but never officially made it into Blitz-era Heavy Gear.
I believe folks could somewhat create the Mountain Grizzly though with various Locked & Loaded swap/option lines in one of the combat groups, as it's pretty much just a Rabid without the reinforced armor and SMS carrying a heavier "grenade" launcher.
Not a clue on what made it into the various incarnations of NuBlitz or subsequent because revamp is fun rulesets thereafter.
After the NuCoal mountain variants it seemed like this was something that every force list afterward had to include (regardless of rules utility), so basically myself & others were left to create "appropriate" variants for multiple models with little previous canon to work off.
Directives from on high were superficial to say the least, other than the rather less than useful "No, that's still not quite what or how I think that model should be." alongside 'Yes, the claws on the Gear-Strider I didn't tell anyone about are climbing gear. Kick ass, right?"
Basically, just like all the fun of changing the Rally Mammoth stats every other day over something like a week or two times however many models ended up with mountain variants in the Lion's Wrath PDF.
Or loadouts for the unnecessary Grizzly variants that AL13N absolutely hated as if the rest of us had a choice but to keep trying to come up with something TPTB liked well enough to let us move on to something that actually needed attention.
Nurglitch wrote: Replicating those curves would have increased the time spent on the model by a couple of orders of magnitude, I would suspect.
I do agree, mind, but... well, it's not exactly like they're producing stuff at a breackneck pace anyways, so...
I'd be seriously surprised if the original 3D artist for the very first KS, who made the "We can't actually produce in plastic those okay looking models we touted as being what backers will receive." wasn't merely the first in a succession of one-off per project treated as if they were freelancer contractors.
Which actually might explain a good bit of why the models looked so rushed, not just because of time=$$$$ constraints, but also due to a fresh artist having to start from scratch over & over while simultaneously working with/modding files they didn't create.
Prophet wept, such a heresy as that which spouts out of your rathole has never before been heard!
May you be taken away to swelter & burn upon the cleansing sands I say.
Pointman wrote: I don't expect an "overall positive thread", just a little surprised it is as if not a single day have passed.
Maybe I was expecting the old player base to be playing something Heavy Gear related and only seeing the same snarky comments was kind of a downer. It have being what, 4 years already?
It's fine if you want to vent at every misstep of DP9 but is not what I was expecting, just a personal opinion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: About posting something positive, it is hard to say what may be considered positive, many in this forum don't like the direction the game is taking, so most of what may be considering positive will not be.
for example, I see more people playing the game and into demos than a few years ago (during the great exodus) and the way the Rooster guy is handling the new rules are very good. yes, many things are not 2ed equivalent but the current game play very well (I still miss the detection rules, though.).
What you think of the new version of the rules?
Well, let's just say that TPTB at DP9 did not exactly spare any expenses souring us (or at least, me) on the IP, so any fondness I have for the game (and more importantly, the setting) comes more from nostalgia than anywhere else. I have not played anything DP9 related except for the HGRPG in years, and the only real point of contact I still have with it is this very thread.
As to The Rooster and the new ruleset, I have no opinion whatsoever. I don't know the guy, and by now I don't have any prospects of playing the HG wargame, so I don't plan on reading it until after its release. But I am not on the market for a new HG wargame anyways, so it doesn't really matter what I might think about it.
What I was interested in was a possible new edition of the RPG, and I was part of Arkrite's crowdfunding effort. That is dead and buried now, and it was mostly a waste of hope, effort and money. Now the rights have gone back to DP9, and I don't expect Robert have the expertise to make it fly, and what little he has said doesn't exactly fill me with hope.
So I've mostly moved on. Greener pastures and all that.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If you look at the 2nd Edition "push-fit" Space Marines, curves aren't impossible, even for a basic mold.
I suspect those were traditionally sculpted rather than done in 3D. It's kind of funny how the former lends itself to curves while the former makes straight lines easier.
To support DP9 I got 2 KS sets for the original plastics, despite already having a massive Pewter collection of NG/SR/PR gears.
I honestly was expecting the new plastics only to be like those cheap crappy starter battletech mechs you used to get in starter sets and even then I felt let down :(
It was like going from Jess Goodwin's 3rd Ed metal SM Scouts to the Derp-ass no-neck plastic scouts all over again.
I'm a huge Northern fan so of the recent Northern minis I bought up the Lynx and Leopard . I totally skipped the lion, however, because it looked like junk when put up next to a grizzly, kodiak or bear/den mother. The reason was obvious. The Lynx and Leopard were hand-sculpted by Phil while the Lion was a rapid prototype.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If you look at the 2nd Edition "push-fit" Space Marines, curves aren't impossible, even for a basic mold.
I suspect those were traditionally sculpted rather than done in 3D. It's kind of funny how the former lends itself to curves while the former makes straight lines easier.
I think it's a function of experience - if you work with curves, have a concept of curves, then you sculpt curves.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If you look at the 2nd Edition "push-fit" Space Marines, curves aren't impossible, even for a basic mold.
I suspect those were traditionally sculpted rather than done in 3D. It's kind of funny how the former lends itself to curves while the former makes straight lines easier.
I think it's a function of experience - if you work with curves, have a concept of curves, then you sculpt curves.
Maybe. From the meshes of my Titanomachina models curves are pretty complex. The hexagonal plugs on the arms, by contrast to the rest of the models, are very simple. I got the impressive that editing curved areas was pretty labour intensive on most 3D-sculpting programs.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If you look at the 2nd Edition "push-fit" Space Marines, curves aren't impossible, even for a basic mold.
I suspect those were traditionally sculpted rather than done in 3D. It's kind of funny how the former lends itself to curves while the former makes straight lines easier.
I think it's a function of experience - if you work with curves, have a concept of curves, then you sculpt curves.
Maybe. From the meshes of my Titanomachina models curves are pretty complex. The hexagonal plugs on the arms, by contrast to the rest of the models, are very simple. I got the impressive that editing curved areas was pretty labour intensive on most 3D-sculpting programs.
Or you use the right tool, like ZBrush, which is one of the most used 3d modelling programs for miniatures AFAIK. Sometimes, what you're doing things with is important.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If you look at the 2nd Edition "push-fit" Space Marines, curves aren't impossible, even for a basic mold.
I suspect those were traditionally sculpted rather than done in 3D. It's kind of funny how the former lends itself to curves while the former makes straight lines easier.
I think it's a function of experience - if you work with curves, have a concept of curves, then you sculpt curves.
Maybe. From the meshes of my Titanomachina models curves are pretty complex. The hexagonal plugs on the arms, by contrast to the rest of the models, are very simple. I got the impressive that editing curved areas was pretty labour intensive on most 3D-sculpting programs.
Or you use the right tool, like ZBrush, which is one of the most used 3d modelling programs for miniatures AFAIK. Sometimes, what you're doing things with is important.
It is important. Particularly if you're a freelancer and budgeting for a constant flow of work, as well as having time to learn the ins and outs of a piece of software. I'm neither an artist, nor have a funnel of prospective clients that might incentivize a bi-annual license to learn and deploy ZBrush. Blender seems like something I might be able to learn to use, if not utilise, because it is free and open-source. I suspect using Blender is what put my artist into the affordability zone for me.
Nurglitch wrote:
I've been informed that time is money where artists have been concerned. Mainly by the artists that have quoted and billed me. At some point you have to look at how much value that time adds to the product,(...)
So what you're telling us is that DP9 can't (or doesn't want to) afford putting in the time, effort and money into getting decent sculpts ? Well, yeah.
Albertorius wrote:
Well, let's just say that TPTB at DP9 did not exactly spare any expenses souring us (or at least, me) on the IP, so any fondness I have for the game (and more importantly, the setting) comes more from nostalgia than anywhere else. I have not played anything DP9 related except for the HGRPG in years, and the only real point of contact I still have with it is this very thread.(...)
A rare example of DP9 putting efforts into something
With the main exception of Caprice Mounts that have ended up reasonnably decent, the plastic Gears have been... Pretty lame. They'd have been OK 20 years ago, I guess.
The plastic Jerboas look cool (subjective I know), but so far the rest are ok at best.
The real pain were the mis-moulds.
Not from DP9 it self. They sent replacements out pretty quickly. But some of the people on the official forum (most of whom I haven't seen there since) seem to feel that returning a defective product was a betryal of 1980's mini buying. After all, how DARE we insist on unbroken merchandise! A "REAL MAN (tm)" would correct that .5 inch gap with green stuff, a miter saw, a jack hammer and TESTOSTERONE!
We always knew NuCoal and Peace River were going to look better. The fair reason would be that they had the benefit of experience, the snarky reason would be that they are the favourite factions of the company.
But, whatever version of a mini you don't like: RAFM, Tac, Phil, NuBlitz? Just call it a Timmins-produced knock-off!
Mmmpi wrote: The plastic Jerboas look cool (subjective I know), but so far the rest are ok at best.
The real pain were the mis-moulds.
Not from DP9 it self. They sent replacements out pretty quickly. But some of the people on the official forum (most of whom I haven't seen there since) seem to feel that returning a defective product was a betryal of 1980's mini buying. After all, how DARE we insist on unbroken merchandise! A "REAL MAN (tm)" would correct that .5 inch gap with green stuff, a miter saw, a jack hammer and TESTOSTERONE!
Got old a bit fast.
Yup. I mentioned before that it was the final straw for me there and I stopped posting not long after. Robert at least corrected his initial statement relatively quickly to his credit but the Faith Militant though continued their defense of the initial stance.
Firebreak wrote: We always knew NuCoal and Peace River were going to look better. The fair reason would be that they had the benefit of experience, the snarky reason would be that they are the favourite factions of the company.
But, whatever version of a mini you don't like: RAFM, Tac, Phil, NuBlitz? Just call it a Timmins-produced knock-off!
I had to google that. Is that town where they produce the plastic minis now?
Firebreak wrote: We always knew NuCoal and Peace River were going to look better. The fair reason would be that they had the benefit of experience, the snarky reason would be that they are the favourite factions of the company.
But, whatever version of a mini you don't like: RAFM, Tac, Phil, NuBlitz? Just call it a Timmins-produced knock-off!
I had to google that. Is that town where they produce the plastic minis now?
As with most locations on Terra-Nova, it's also an actual place on today's earth, though Terra Nova's Timmins is mostly known for being "that place where they make real shoddy knock-offs"
Did you insert that yourself into the lore back when you worked for them?
In an unrelated question, what is the most complete (in terms of the the number of perks/flaws in a single source) sourcebook for vehicle/gear creation in the HGRPG? Obviously the core book had most of the perks/flaws but (at least in 1st edition) the technical manual and various faction specific splat books had more. Was there ever a single complete repository for gear creation in any edition of the RPG?
warboss wrote: Did you insert that yourself into the lore back when you worked for them?
In an unrelated question, what is the most complete (in terms of the the number of perks/flaws in a single source) sourcebook for vehicle/gear creation in the HGRPG? Obviously the core book had most of the perks/flaws but (at least in 1st edition) the technical manual and various faction specific splat books had more. Was there ever a single complete repository for gear creation in any edition of the RPG?
Retroactively, yeah ! The actual Réunion island is heavily mountainous, and used to be well-known for coffee production, so... Yeah. The original writer was long gone when I got there, but the consensus was that it was most likely the actual inspiration. Much amusement was had... (I actually play Norlights)
The rulebook and tech manual probably have it together.
As with most locations on Terra-Nova, it's also an actual place on today's earth, though Terra Nova's Timmins is mostly known for being "that place where they make real shoddy knock-offs"
I know there was certainly some Canadian humour inserted into some of the nations and even cities, but I've never been clear on just how tongue-in-cheek some of the name choices are. For example, I'm from the actual Perth, and TN Perth being in the stuck-up, cult-like Humanist Alliance.... kinda fits, actually.
Mmmpi wrote: The plastic Jerboas look cool (subjective I know), but so far the rest are ok at best.
The real pain were the mis-moulds.
Not from DP9 it self. They sent replacements out pretty quickly. But some of the people on the official forum (most of whom I haven't seen there since) seem to feel that returning a defective product was a betryal of 1980's mini buying. After all, how DARE we insist on unbroken merchandise! A "REAL MAN (tm)" would correct that .5 inch gap with green stuff, a miter saw, a jack hammer and TESTOSTERONE!
Got old a bit fast.
Yup. I mentioned before that it was the final straw for me there and I stopped posting not long after. Robert at least corrected his initial statement relatively quickly to his credit but the Faith Militant though continued their defense of the initial stance.
Well if it makes you feel better, they disappeared right after that. 7Bullets for example I don't think has posted since.
--
For the current topic, I was wondering how many of those names were tongue in cheek and how many were 'we named our new city after our old one'.
Well if it makes you feel better, they disappeared right after that. 7Bullets for example I don't think has posted since.
While I didn't know the exact timing, I did notice the absence of many of the most zealous (including him) in my periodic checks of the forum just like the flame that burns twice as bright saying would predict. That said.. I don't really have anything to contribute over there. I don't have any inention to test any of the new rules they're working on unless I suddenly organically meet another local HG player (I'm done trying to recruit after years of trying with nothing to show for it) and I haven't been an active customer of the company for 5+ years (I don't count 2nd hand RAFM purchases). I wish them luck and hope that I may eventually at some point be able to reap the benefits of whatever comes out the development pipeline. YMMV. My fellow dakkites over here in this hive of scum and villainy are stuck with me for the time being.
Firebreak wrote: We always knew NuCoal and Peace River were going to look better. The fair reason would be that they had the benefit of experience, the snarky reason would be that they are the favourite factions of the company.
But, whatever version of a mini you don't like: RAFM, Tac, Phil, NuBlitz? Just call it a Timmins-produced knock-off!
I had to google that. Is that town where they produce the plastic minis now?
HudsonD wrote:There's actually a place called "Reunion" in the SRA
...is it weird that I still can place both on TN's map without looking? >_>
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warboss wrote: Did you insert that yourself into the lore back when you worked for them?
In an unrelated question, what is the most complete (in terms of the the number of perks/flaws in a single source) sourcebook for vehicle/gear creation in the HGRPG? Obviously the core book had most of the perks/flaws but (at least in 1st edition) the technical manual and various faction specific splat books had more. Was there ever a single complete repository for gear creation in any edition of the RPG?
The Tech manual has the complete VCS rules for HG.
In an unrelated question, what is the most complete (in terms of the the number of perks/flaws in a single source) sourcebook for vehicle/gear creation in the HGRPG? Obviously the core book had most of the perks/flaws but (at least in 1st edition) the technical manual and various faction specific splat books had more. Was there ever a single complete repository for gear creation in any edition of the RPG?
The Tech manual has the complete VCS rules for HG.
Thanks. Which edition? Does it reprint the rules from the core book and include them? Or did they remove them from later core rulebooks. My only experience is with 1st ed RPG.
Firebreak wrote:We'd think it weird if you COULDN'T.
Ahahahaha
warboss wrote:Thanks. Which edition? Does it reprint the rules from the core book and include them? Or did they remove them from later core rulebooks. My only experience is with 1st ed RPG.
2nd Edition. It has everything from the main book (save the completed designs), plus the full rules and a lenghty dissertation about terranovan tech levels, materials, vehicles and everything in between. An invaluable resource to grok what's possible and what's not in setting.
IIRC, 2nd edition's core rulebook was quite limited in regards to the VCS.
Yes, the 2ed removed the VCS entirely, but it is complete in the Tech Manual, great book with lots of good info, a good read if you like technical stuff.
Thanks to you both. I don't know why but I had the sudden urge to write up a gear. Did the Chasseur (either Mk I or II) ever appear in the rpg? Or was it a purely blitz creation?
warboss wrote: Thanks to you both. I don't know why but I had the sudden urge to write up a gear. Did the Chasseur (either Mk I or II) ever appear in the rpg? Or was it a purely blitz creation?
Yes and no. Before the NuCoal book, the Chasseur had only appeared twice, plus a non-published third:
- First appearance in the book Heavy Gear Design Works, a couple of pics of the design and a small blurb.
- Life on Terra Nova 2nd edition: In the Erech and Nineveh section they state that TA sold the design to the twin city states and that they produced it locally in very limited quantities. It was a Jäger variant with a hover SMS and a VERY limited deployment range, but no info other than that.
- The design was actually created for the unpublished scenario "Monday Blues", which was supposed to include the stats.
Indeed! I nominate Albertorius for the position of official Dakkadakka HG mentat. We'll need to set up a gofundme for some eyebrow extensions if he accepts.
Indeed! I nominate Albertorius for the position of official Dakkadakka HG mentat. We'll need to set up a gofundme for some eyebrow extensions if he accepts.
*donates 1lb spice, 1 British pound, 1 yen, and 1 dollar (Spanish)
But can he convert each of those denominations into their equivalents in marks and dinars??? (It took me a shamefully Canadian amount of time to remember that Southern currency was not donair.)
Considering the state of it's political meltdown, the Donar (kabab) might be the most valuable local currency in the ESE.
The GBP, and Y might have some historical value, the Spanish Dollar was last made in gold (to the best of my knowledge), so it's material value might exceed it's historical, and it depends on what kind of spice it is. Saffron is worth 100x it's weight in gears for instance.
Firebreak wrote:Albertorious, I think you ARE the HG wiki.
warboss wrote:Indeed! I nominate Albertorius for the position of official Dakkadakka HG mentat. We'll need to set up a gofundme for some eyebrow extensions if he accepts.
^_^. Well, I have the proper documentation I guess xDD
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Mmmpi wrote: Considering the state of it's political meltdown, the Donar (kabab) might be the most valuable local currency in the ESE.
The GBP, and Y might have some historical value, the Spanish Dollar was last made in gold (to the best of my knowledge), so it's material value might exceed it's historical, and it depends on what kind of spice it is. Saffron is worth 100x it's weight in gears for instance.
We usually call the spanish dollar "real de a ocho" (it actually took me a moment to parse it, tbh xD), and there was actually silver and gold ones (1 golden was worth 16 silver ones). Fun fact, the name "real" was due to it being stamped by the king. It was a "real de a ocho" because it was actually an 8 reales coin, and the one used (and coined) most of the time was the silver one, which was the basisi for... well, most of the silver coinage out there, including the first chinese currency in 1899 and the silver dollar.
You might be thinking of doubloons there, not reales, I think. Those were gold coins with a value of 8 escudos (32 reales). There were... a plethora of coins back there xD (for example, even the name of the doubloon hints to that, as it was literally a coin that doubled the value of a venetian ducado... and probably also because it originally features the image of both catholic kings, of course).
As to the terranovan coinage, well, interestingly enough both polar stamps have the same value , with the PR dollar going for half that, IIRC.
What version of the rules are we currently on, and where can I get them? Last I looked into HG, DP9 was still doing beta rules. Been seeing the new plastic Peace River stuff and it's been catching my attention and getting me interested in the game again.
