...huh. Just for reference, a 40k Rhino is 115x75x50...so that thing is almost twice as long and about 25% wider and higher... for a 1/144 game. and $85, because their stuff is not crazy expensive as it is already.
Not that DP9 stuff isn't generally more expensive than their competitors, but in all fairness you are comparing a mass produced plastic model to a limited run resin model (not limited as in LE but limited in the number of people willing to buy it)
Right. That doesn't sound stupid at all. Something Rhino sized is already too fething big for that scale, so what the hell, let's more than double it.
The size of the vehicle does match the fluff, FWIW. Admittedly, it does seem stupid big for the scale of HG, but then I think a lot of the bigger Forge World Imperial Armour vehicles are stupid big for the scale of 40K. Some people just like ginormous tanks.
Hum, I was comparing the dimensions of the Rhino, not the prices. Were I to do that I would agree with you... with the caveat that GW doesn't price their stuff following that logic, but the "we're the Rolls Royce of miniatures gaming, so we charge as much as we fething want", so... well, let's just say that if you only look comparatively affordable when compared with GW, you're in trouble.
As to the other... don't get me started, or I will tell you, extensively and in detail, what I think about having knights, superheavies, titans and all the other melon-fething Epic stuff in 40k games where it does not belong >_>.
Albertorius wrote: Hum, I was comparing the dimensions of the Rhino, not the prices.
My mistake. You did mention both them both (dimensions & price) in the same statement, though, which is why I evidently misunderstood you.
to do that I would agree with you... with the caveat that GW doesn't price their stuff following that logic, but the "we're the Rolls Royce of miniatures gaming, so we charge as much as we fething want", so... well, let's just say that if you only look comparatively affordable when compared with GW, you're in trouble.
Not quite sure the point you are trying to make here? My only "logic" in the previous post was that big, resin models are more expensive than "similar" sized mass produced plastic models. That's true whether we are talking about the DP9 or GW/FW.
As to the other... don't get me started, or I will tell you, extensively and in detail, what I think about having knights, superheavies, titans and all the other melon-fething Epic stuff in 40k games where it does not belong >_>.
You're preaching to the choir on that issue, brother!
mdauben wrote: My mistake. You did mention both them both (dimensions & price) in the same statement, though, which is why I evidently misunderstood you.
Fair enough ^_^
Not quite sure the point you are trying to make here? My only "logic" in the previous post was that big, resin models are more expensive than "similar" sized mass produced plastic models. That's true whether we are talking about the DP9 or GW/FW.
That's actually not always true. With the exception of some of the Horus Heresy series minis, FW and GW characters are very similarly priced, even though FW ones are resin and GW ones are plastic (and the HH ones tend to have humongously huge resin bases to try ans justify their prices, which puts them on the same range that mega character plastic kits from GW).
My point is that big, resin models by DP9 and GW/FW tend to be comparatively more expensive than similar items from other companies, as a general thing. And that being "comparable or a bit cheaper" with GW/FW in similar stuff is not exactly something good, because the rest of the miniatures world use to be cheaper, with the clear exception of boutique minis, but the general quality of DP9's sculpts does not justify those prices (their resin was good the last time I bought it, though).
And then, of course, is the fact that you can only buy their stuff directly from them, which in my case, and I expect that in the case of anyone from this side of the ocean, puts them at a significant disadvantage, because it can as much as double the actual price to pay.
You're preaching to the choir on that issue, brother!
Swabby wrote: Heya guys, I'm just kind of jumping into this thread, but for the first time I'm going to be trying my hand at some Heavy Gear with a local group.
2nd edition was the last time I looked at any fluff and I didn't really actively play even back then.
Can anyone give me advice for starting out? I'm kind of having a hard time even figuring out which books are current in this line.
A lot really depends on which group you want to start with, honestly.
In regards to books, it has been a while, but they were working on a living manual for Blitz at one point available on DriveThruRPG. I haven't looked it up in a year, though.
Swabby wrote: Also, which faction is the most mad-max?
The Leagueless are the most dystopian group, I believe. A bit hard to build straight out, kind of like Mercenaries in Warmachine. The North and the South have sub-factions which tend to rely on cheaper numbers then elite units, such as the North's Western Frontier Protectorate, and the South's MILICIA or ESE (if I remember that right).
CEF, the North, and the South are all the big names in the conflict. The Black Talons are the anti-CEF black ops group, relying on elite units to do the job. Peace River and NuCoal are both "small" factions which have a lot of punch to them. So, in general those don't generally qualify, but you can always paint them up to look a bit more "Mad Max".
Swabby wrote: Heya guys, I'm just kind of jumping into this thread, but for the first time I'm going to be trying my hand at some Heavy Gear with a local group.
2nd edition was the last time I looked at any fluff and I didn't really actively play even back then.
Can anyone give me advice for starting out? I'm kind of having a hard time even figuring out which books are current in this line.
Also, which faction is the most mad-max?
IIRC this should be the current rulebook. It's supposed to be a living ruleset with yearly updates but I haven't kept track of the rules for a few years so I don't know when the next one is coming up.
There is also a quick start ruleset on drivethrurpg last I checked but I'm not sure what the difference is between the two. As for Mad Max, the faction that would best go with that theme would be leagueless... think desert gypsies who prowl the badlands with somewhat out of date but rugged equipment from most of the other factions. I don't know how well their army building translated over to the post kickstarter ruleset though.
Yeah, that's the current rulebook Warboss linked to, they recently updated it back in October so it should be safe to print out without needing to reprint it for a good while.
Best place to start out is either the 2-player starter or the plastic starter sets. None of them are particularly Mad-Max, but they'll all make 100 point armies and possibly stretch to 150 depending on the force (those are the 2 standard size games, 100 and 150). There's a lot of people that dislike the plastics, but having done a basic 100 point force for each i think they're great
Out of curiosity, how many people have active groups that play Heavy Gear? I've always liked the miniatures and the background, but it seems that no matter where I go I can't find anyone to play against.
Has anyone successfully started an HG group, and if so, how did you swing that?
godswildcard wrote: Out of curiosity, how many people have active groups that play Heavy Gear? I've always liked the miniatures and the background, but it seems that no matter where I go I can't find anyone to play against.
Has anyone successfully started an HG group, and if so, how did you swing that?
I have a fairly active group in my area. Ironically most of the people I found in my area where already interested in Heavy Gear but could never find others that played until I popped up. I literally demoed a lot during a few conventions last year and kept showing up to the game store the same day/time consistently. I've now run a short league for them and we're talking about running a campaign soon.
Also, funnily enough I know of a few people in your area that have Heavy Gear stuff. Send me a PM and I'll do my best to get you in touch with them.
My goal here was to show that there is work going behind the scenes, and that often in development we go to places where the rules will not fit into the regular paradigm. Baconradar is correct. This is an attempt to allow squad based play, a thing that is really difficult to do. In the current Heavy Gear there are a lot of barriers to entry for new players, the level of complication of the rules aside. One is the speed and complexity of the game. There is a lot going on and it is very hard to evaluate all the choices you can make.
This rule won't see beta in HGB because it adds more complexity rather than simplifying it.
It is clear that Heavy Gear Blitz is a skirmish game, and most of the players like it like that. Which is cool. Heavy Gear blitz will always be a well supported game for Dream Pod 9. However we profit by selling miniatures, and sometimes you just want to play a big game without it taking a day and a half to play.
It would be great if there was a rules set that allowed larger armies to play. It would be simpler rules set to appeal to a larger base of players but this is something Dream Pod 9 needs, more players. Heavy Gear Blitz is a good rules set but it is not an easy rules set.
-Dave
Dave posted some overly complex rules for "fast dice rolling" squad based activations that paradoxically would apparently slow the game down. Full disclosure, I didn't try testing it myself but, just going off of a read of the rules, I agree with the general thread consensus and Dave's own later admission bolded above that it adds complexity despite the thread title. Regardless, the main reason it spock'ed my eyebrow is the second part of the bolded section (my emphasis) about HGB being a skirmish game despite the desire to sell minis. Full disclosure... I prefer HG as a skirmish game and my own house rules that I started my blog linked in my sig specifically to publish dealt with turning the old HG FM Blitz rules into a better skirmish game. The key part though is that when I was brought on by Gerrit to playtest what ultimately morphed into the LRB rules that he told me the goal and indeed the original pitch for the rules was to make HG more mass battle.
The original 'goal' was 30 vs. 30 in 3-4 hours, with 20 v 20 in 2-3 hours a reasonable compromise. Initial testing showed that 15v15 in 2-3 hours was a better 'feel', not sacrificing too much grit but also allowing some simplifications. However, those were games intended to be run very 'objective light', so YMMV.
Despite a paradoxical noticeable decrease in lethality as well as simultaneous increase in complexity over the proof of concept work Ice Raptor did until the the alpha release, the goal was scaled down a bit but mostly still the same:
A game should take two hours with forces between 8 and 20 models (2-4 units). This of course should be modified by the skill level of the players.
By the final release (at least in the latest version July 2016 I downloaded of the LRB), it was down to:
Heavy Gear provides a rule set that enables two players, with a force of 100 points each (approximately 10 models), to play a
game in two hours or less. These rules are intended to allow a fast-paced, yet involved, play experience.
If the goal was to have larger model count games (along with the corresponding sales to facilitate them), then the rules shouldn't have been made more complex yet less lethal. YMMV. I did some initial theory crafting a few years back on simplifying the rules further including squad activation for a potential blog and Gear Up! article but my enthusiasm waned since. I still think it's possible as a supplement but it will require significantly more than just a cumbersome shooting rule to incorporate.
warboss wrote: I did some initial theory crafting a few years back on simplifying the rules further including squad activation for a potential blog and Gear Up! article but my enthusiasm waned since.
OTOH, I spent a HUGE amount of time radically simplifying the HGB rules to produce KOG light. I doubt the Pod would be interested in licensing my Kl engine, though...
On that we agree. Any simplification for mass battles would/should be based on the current rules for better or worse. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know which though personally. I can't even remember half of what I scribbled down by hand on some sheets of printer paper a couple years ago in my own attempt at a compatible system.
It's not really possible to be completely "compatible" and an order of magnitude simpler. What is possible is to have something that broadly captures the overall feel and general flow. It's just that HGB is so very clunky and rooted in early RPG Tactical that the expectation of detail makes it really difficult.
JohnHwangDD wrote: It's not really possible to be completely "compatible" and an order of magnitude simpler. What is possible is to have something that broadly captures the overall feel and general flow.
Agreed. What I was referring to was using most of the same mechanics and being able to "convert" existing blitz models within a few seconds to a simplified mass battle version. For instance, I still had armor/hull but there were half the number of boxes roughly for each model; the mechanism for determining MOS and damage was the same overall but with specific edge case rules like AP were changed. The nublitz flavor was still there and instantly recognizable but was overhauled to less time and be more lethal.
I might throw $10 on the pile as goodwill, but I really never had any interest in the Utopia faction. I always thought they were bad mecha designs with good drone designs. Utopia would have been far more interesting with gear-strider sized units controlling units of drones, it also could have explained how Terra Nova got gearstrider tech (reverse engineered from CEF Utopian auxiliaries or from Black Talon spy reports). But that's just me.
I don't own any Utopia minis so I'm in, but I'm guessing it won't fund. Which is a little sad, but it seems to be a matter of a lack of showmanship. The goods are there it just needs to be spun a little.
Neither the backstory nor the models (especially!) of Utopia appeal to me so I'm out. Besides, I have several thousand points (old blitz scale) of painted figs from three different factions already that I'm not using. I wish them luck and hopefully existing and potential Utopian players show up and pledge en masse (if they exist) because I suspect this truly is the last chance to expand their faction if it doesn't fund.
For the KS to fund at $30k, the Pod needs 430+ out of the 238 previous pledges.
I pulled out of the previous KS before it even closed, just because I was only interested in Utopia and it became clear the campaign would never break enough stretch goals to build a reasonable Utopia force. I think they put this one together betters, so hopefully it will get a better response. This new KS has the full Utopia force available in the basic pledges, so if they can just reach the basic level its good. The stretch goal this time are just duplicates of the sprues in the base campaign.
warboss wrote: Neither the backstory nor the models (especially!) of Utopia appeal to me so I'm out. Besides, I have several thousand points (old blitz scale) of painted figs from three different factions already that I'm not using. I wish them luck and hopefully existing and potential Utopian players show up and pledge en masse (if they exist) because I suspect this truly is the last chance to expand their faction if it doesn't fund.
Well, they could always pay themselves for it. It is something people do, I hear.
warboss wrote: Neither the backstory nor the models (especially!) of Utopia appeal to me so I'm out. Besides, I have several thousand points (old blitz scale) of painted figs from three different factions already that I'm not using. I wish them luck and hopefully existing and potential Utopian players show up and pledge en masse (if they exist) because I suspect this truly is the last chance to expand their faction if it doesn't fund.
Well, they could always pay themselves for it. It is something people do, I hear.
Luddite. That's so second millenium business think, Albertorius.
mdauben wrote:Huh. Guess I'm the odd one, I pledged the Commander Level ($175CAN) as this looks like and interesting and different faction.
For the KS to fund at $30k, the Pod needs 430+ out of the 238 previous pledges.
I pulled out of the previous KS before it even closed, just because I was only interested in Utopia and it became clear the campaign would never break enough stretch goals to build a reasonable Utopia force. I think they put this one together betters, so hopefully it will get a better response. This new KS has the full Utopia force available in the basic pledges, so if they can just reach the basic level its good. The stretch goal this time are just duplicates of the sprues in the base campaign.
Nothing odd about that. If you're interested in the faction, pledge for it. I wholeheartedly support you putting your money where your mouth is and this campaign is tailor made for customers like you (no sarcasm intended). I personally don't think that there are enough folks like yourself to make it financially viable though buit that's another story. I guess we'll see in a few days if that is the case since we all know the *real* funding period to determine cancellation is the first couple of days and not the actual listed one. I do think though that this will be the last hurrah for Utopia if it doesn't fund. YMMV.
Well, they could always pay themselves for it. It is something people do, I hear.
I know, right? Just put the minis up for sale instead of holding them hostage to a Kickstarter for the least popular faction. There's several Peace River minis being held up for the same reason. Dream Pod 9 has completely abandoned regular releases for Kickstarters, and I can't see the logic to it. Games live or die based on the release schedule, and if the KS fulfillment date is real, they won't release anything until early 2019. The last regular release for the game seems to have been Nov 2015 (Titan attack helicopter). The first KS released in Sept 2016, so it will be over 2 years between any releases and over 3 years from a regular release (and more than that since I made an order from DP9, because there's no new stuff to order).
For the KS to fund at $30k, the Pod needs 430+ out of the 238 previous pledges.
I pulled out of the previous KS before it even closed, just because I was only interested in Utopia
That's entirely reasonable, but I don't think that Utopia is as compelling for those who got in based on the original N/S designs, which is why this campaign is not going to fund. But keep your pledge in, as that's what *you* want.
warboss wrote:Luddite. That's so second millenium business think, Albertorius.
Guilty as charged. I keep looking at their KS and say to myself "you know... I'm gonna spend about that much on reforming the kitchen. I could totally pay for that, right now". IMHO, KS's original purpose has been completely perverted, by now.
John Prins wrote:I know, right? Just put the minis up for sale instead of holding them hostage to a Kickstarter for the least popular faction. There's several Peace River minis being held up for the same reason. Dream Pod 9 has completely abandoned regular releases for Kickstarters, and I can't see the logic to it. Games live or die based on the release schedule, and if the KS fulfillment date is real, they won't release anything until early 2019. The last regular release for the game seems to have been Nov 2015 (Titan attack helicopter). The first KS released in Sept 2016, so it will be over 2 years between any releases and over 3 years from a regular release (and more than that since I made an order from DP9, because there's no new stuff to order).
Wow. Really? I know I haven't been paying attention, but... that is utterly ridiculous. You mean to tell me that a company that nowadays basically rely on selling to the fans (more or less like Palladium, come to think about it) is not actually releasing new stuff so that the aforementioned fans could buy stuff? That's... something, alright.
For the KS to fund at $30k, the Pod needs 430+ out of the 238 previous pledges.
I pulled out of the previous KS before it even closed, just because I was only interested in Utopia
That's entirely reasonable, but I don't think that Utopia is as compelling for those who got in based on the original N/S designs, which is why this campaign is not going to fund. But keep your pledge in, as that's what *you* want.
Indeed; mdauben, in your case it makes absolutely perfect sense. It's just that I think you're a minority.
Well, they could always pay themselves for it. It is something people do, I hear.
I know, right? Just put the minis up for sale instead of holding them hostage to a Kickstarter for the least popular faction. There's several Peace River minis being held up for the same reason. Dream Pod 9 has completely abandoned regular releases for Kickstarters, and I can't see the logic to it. Games live or die based on the release schedule, and if the KS fulfillment date is real, they won't release anything until early 2019. The last regular release for the game seems to have been Nov 2015 (Titan attack helicopter). The first KS released in Sept 2016, so it will be over 2 years between any releases and over 3 years from a regular release (and more than that since I made an order from DP9, because there's no new stuff to order).
I suppose your point depends on whether those sales through normal retail channels (or more accurately direct from DP9's online store as I suspect that's where the bulk now is) pay for themselves (labor and materials) in a timely fashion. The first plastics kickstarter doesn't seemed to have kickstarted a renaissance in HG gaming like the original LeClerc blitz era redo did. When I posted above about the dp9 forums, I was surprised at how little interaction there is now. There was a moderator on the forum with only 100 posts (!) and only two of the top 10 forum posters by leaderboard thumbs up ranking still post (yourself and samuli). Churn is a normal part of every community but I didn't see the "new" zealots (that would shout down criticism 2-3 years ago from veterans) posting any more nor much in the way of new posters either to replace the old timers who voluntarily left or were kicked out for dubious reasons. I can't help but think that the player base and therefore sales have suffered similarly. Of course this is all outsider looking in conjecture but the reliance on prefunding at others' expense in order to create new product leans towards that as well (over and above the industry shift to crowdfunding overall that is).
warboss wrote: I suppose your point depends on whether those sales through normal retail channels (or more accurately direct from DP9's online store as I suspect that's where the bulk now is) pay for themselves (labor and materials) in a timely fashion. The first plastics kickstarter doesn't seemed to have kickstarted a renaissance in HG gaming like the original LeClerc blitz era redo did. When I posted above about the dp9 forums, I was surprised at how little interaction there is now. There was a moderator on the forum with only 100 posts (!) and only two of the top 10 forum posters by leaderboard thumbs up ranking still post (yourself and samuli). Churn is a normal part of every community but I didn't see the "new" zealots (that would shout down criticism 2-3 years ago from veterans) posting any more nor much in the way of new posters either to replace the old timers who voluntarily left or were kicked out for dubious reasons. I can't help but think that the player base and therefore sales have suffered similarly. Of course this is all outsider looking in conjecture but the reliance on prefunding at others' expense in order to create new product leans towards that as well (over and above the industry shift to crowdfunding overall that is).
It might have to do with Phil's minis being significantly better
As to the forum being dead... well that may happen when you drive the biggest fans out for not toeing the party line quite hard enough and replace them with hat they have now.
Albertorius wrote:It might have to do with Phil's minis being significantly better
As to the forum being dead... well that may happen when you drive the biggest fans out for not toeing the party line quite hard enough and replace them with hat they have now.
The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. For one or two of the folks that tried to shout down constructive criticism from fellow fans, it appears that calling them a candle might be too generous given the length of their interest and the "flash in the pan" comparison might be more apt. And, yes, Phil's minis coming on the heels of the much worse IMO tactical minis were a huge improvement. I can't say that about the 1st round kickstarters other than maybe Caprice (which was a massive improvement in terms of cost of ownership rather than quality which remained roughly the same)
HudsonD wrote:Man, I was in Montréal when the first Blitz was released, and Phil's resculpts started appearing...
Those alone got people buying it. I'd know, I did.
Same here... and I hated DP9 at the time for screwing me over twice during the 1st edition RPG days.
I suppose your point depends on whether those sales through normal retail channels (or more accurately direct from DP9's online store as I suspect that's where the bulk now is) pay for themselves (labor and materials) in a timely fashion.
Given they're pewter, the turnaround is pretty quick. Obviously I don't have access the DP9's books, but if they need KS money to make rubber spincast molds, how are they keeping the lights on and a staff of 5 paid?
The first plastics kickstarter doesn't seemed to have kickstarted a renaissance in HG gaming like the original LeClerc blitz era redo did. When I posted above about the dp9 forums, I was surprised at how little interaction there is now.
The quality of the plastics wasn't good enough. Getting into the game is more accessible with the price of plastics, but the standards for plastics miniatures has moved a lot higher. I give DP9 credit for trying - the NuCoal/PRDF plastics renders look better than KS1 renders, but if you compare plastics and metals side to side, the plastics end up looking poor in comparison. A good paint job can salvage it quite a bit, but the same level paint job on the metals will look a lot better too.
There was a moderator on the forum with only 100 posts (!) and only two of the top 10 forum posters by leaderboard thumbs up ranking still post (yourself and samuli).
And I think I've posted 3-4 comments in the last year or so. To be fair, I've put HG on the back burner 4-5 times for several years since the original release, so it's not unusual in and of itself, but yeah, the plastics didn't juice Heavy Gear nearly enough.
Maybe if they ever get off their rump and release a new version of the HGRPG to juice interest in the IP.
HudsonD wrote: A staff of 5 ? No way. DP9 is 2 people at this point.
2 full time, in office staff, yes. The KS lists a staff of 5, Rob (office), David (office), Alain (Fusion Models that does DP9's resins), Tony (3D modeling), Phillipe (sculptor), as well as some 3D modelers in Europe for the Kickstarter plastics.
Basically, Alain is necessary for sales of resins, and without Tony/Phillipe, no new sculpts get made. I'd count that as staff, even if they're not full time DP9 office critters.
warboss wrote: Nothing odd about that. If you're interested in the faction, pledge for it. I wholeheartedly support you putting your money where your mouth is and this campaign is tailor made for customers like you (no sarcasm intended). I personally don't think that there are enough folks like yourself to make it financially viable though buit that's another story. I guess we'll see in a few days if that is the case since we all know the *real* funding period to determine cancellation is the first couple of days and not the actual listed one. I do think though that this will be the last hurrah for Utopia if it doesn't fund. YMMV.
In all honestly, I would not be surprised if it does not fund. I hope I'm wrong as I really like the look of this faction and would really like to get them, but if it doesn't fund I've still got most of my Caprise and CEF miniatures to paint.
Let's not stop the chest compressions just yet. Is this kickstarter being discussed anywhere but here? I took a look at the dp9 forums and Brandon's facebook group and the announcement posts on both don't have a single comment yet.
As far as I know, Dakka is the place where this KS has been the most actively discussed, so... Yeah.
Edit : There literaly hasn't been a single reply in the official thread on the DP9 boards yet, and I counted 43 views when I checked a minute ago !
Edit² : ... 194 views in the Dakka news thread.
Huh, this thread got bumped. Yeah, that KS looks a bit sad. I can understand going with a KS for Utopia, as it's their least popular faction, so making a bunch of minis that won't sell seems like a bad idea. If they using it basically as a pre-ordering system to gauge user interest, that's fine.
It would help if they actually had cool designs, and this is where the KS could've really shined, by redesigning the models so they actually looked appealing. Instead, it looks like they doubled down on the ugly eggs factor, with even less detail. But oh hey, a giant tank...that is also ugly as sin, though at least it looks more inline with the rest of the units. Unlike that stupid giant CEF hovertank, that looked like it came from an entirely different tabletop game.
ferrous wrote: It would help if they actually had cool designs, and this is where the KS could've really shined, by redesigning the models so they actually looked appealing.
The aesthetics are always what killed Utopia for me. I've come to believe that Phil's artistic touch was really what make the Blitz line possible - he breathed a bunch of life into those models that simply haven't been replicated. The Utopia line - and the plastics - looks to have the quality I expect from independent mini houses featured in the back of Wargames Illustrated. It's just not enough to get me over the sticker shock and make me want to buy.
Yeah, well... turns out that repurposing stuff from the d20 Mecha Compendium designed for other settings that had nothing to do with HG didn't work as well as they hoped.
Wait, really? I never knew that about Utopia. We really need a retrospective "peek behind the curtain" type thread one of these days. I know a certain someone was going to talk about the original plan for the story on here, but then never came back. :(
Firebreak wrote: Wait, really? I never knew that about Utopia. We really need a retrospective "peek behind the curtain" type thread one of these days. I know a certain someone was going to talk about the original plan for the story on here, but then never came back. :(
Yep, really. IIRC the drones were done specifically for HG, but they were based them on the look of the mecha they did repurpose (the setting was called "Outworld Changelings" and the mecha were called "Neural Raiders" in setting, althoug they took a tank from the setting and put a Neural Raider's torso on top of it to do the third Utopian Gear).
It's pretty obvious on stuff like the rocket launchers, for example.
As to the Kickstarter, it appears it has been flatlining the last few days?
Yeah, they're really increasing the amount of minis for no additional funding. I know that popping out sprues once the molds are made is relatively inexpensive but that should also affect shipping which could bite backers (especially non-North American ones) later. Also, I hope they don't have to unilaterally decide to roll those stretch goals back a year later after the fact like they did when the first kickstarter hit some speed bumps. Caveat Emptor.
Also, I hope they don't have to unilaterally decide to roll those stretch goals back a year later after the fact like they did when the first kickstarter hit some speed bumps. Caveat Emptor.
Eh, maybe it's me but I don't see why people are so over the top upset about that. It was 2 minis from a stretch goal and they were upfront that once it came down to cutting the molds they were coming up short and removing them was the easiest solution.
I'd much rather they did that (despite my love of the Sidewinder) than drop things into development hell while they tried to scrounge more money. I've backed other kickstarters where that did happen and IMO it's much worse for backers and companies both.
Also, I hope they don't have to unilaterally decide to roll those stretch goals back a year later after the fact like they did when the first kickstarter hit some speed bumps. Caveat Emptor.
Eh, maybe it's me but I don't see why people are so over the top upset about that. It was 2 minis from a stretch goal and they were upfront that once it came down to cutting the molds they were coming up short and removing them was the easiest solution.
JohnHwangDD Rage Trigger ON [X] OFF[ ]
I personally agree that the scope of the changes wasn't significant but the thinking and willingness to unilaterally change the terms of the deal over a year after the fact was. It shows a willingness on the part of DP9 to make their customers directly pay for the company's mistakes. YMMV.
warboss wrote: I personally agree that the scope of the changes wasn't significant but the thinking and willingness to unilaterally change the terms of the deal over a year after the fact was. It shows a willingness on the part of DP9 to make their customers directly pay for the company's mistakes. YMMV.
That's pretty much it. The Pod failed to deposit any of the US-bound money in a US bank account, nor to perform a basic currency hedge. Total incompetence from a company that *knew* it would spend the largest chunk of the funds in the US, rather than Canada. Really, it's completely asinine why they don't have the entire project in USD out of a US shell in Delaware.
But then, the Pod can't manage it's way out of a wet paper bag, and as expected, the backers are the ones who get screwed.
The plus side, is that the first KS showed the Pod's true colors and ability, so I'm not even tossing the token buck at them.
ScarletRose wrote: Eh, maybe it's me but I don't see why people are so over the top upset about that. It was 2 minis from a stretch goal and they were upfront that once it came down to cutting the molds they were coming up short and removing them was the easiest solution.
Well, to put it simply, they changed the deal a year after the fact but did not offer any kind of refund option at the same time, so the only thing people could do at the time was to rage.
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Firebreak wrote: DP9 was overall behaving a lot shittier at the time, too, so it was just one more "LALALALA CANT HERE YOU YOU ALL SUCK" moment.
Yeah, well, I can't really say that they're acting less gakky now. I can only state exactly how gakky they were at the time.
I'm curious to see if DP9 will lower the funding goal last minute after doubling the model count just to get $22k in quick easy cash right away and let backers deal with/pay for any potential shortfall consequences a year from now.
warboss wrote: I'm curious to see if DP9 will lower the funding goal last minute after doubling the model count just to get $22k in quick easy cash right away and let backers deal with/pay for any potential shortfall consequences a year from now.
I'd like to believe they wouldn't, mainly because I like to believe that people can change.
Then again, I'm not willing to bet my money on it.
I don't believe KS allows a creator to change the goal mid-campaign. I think they'd have to cancel and launch a new one. But if they re-launch, their target would need to be more like $15k or $20k.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I don't believe KS allows a creator to change the goal mid-campaign. I think they'd have to cancel and launch a new one. But if they re-launch, their target would need to be more like $15k or $20k.
I didn't know that; I figured that as long as it didn't fund, you could change anything until it did. Over in the news thread, Albertorious noted a $6k bump yesterday and Mmmmpi brought up uncharacteristically large pledge amounts for the number of new pledges.
In the News thread someone commented that it was less new comers and more people upping their pledges.
I have no idea where they got their information though.
I still think there might have been a donation from Rob or Dave, a sort of "prime the pump" attempt at the last minute. Not saying it's a given, only that it's possible. It wouldn't be the first time it happened.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Pod threw $5k to get it over the hump. Sure, they lose 8% to fees, but that's paying a mere $400 to secure $25k in funding. They can get it back by tacking on an extra $2 in shipping charges.
Mmmpi wrote: In the News thread someone commented that it was less new comers and more people upping their pledges.
I have no idea where they got their information though.(...).
Note how the increase in pledges is closely corelated to the increase in backers, except on 02/02.
It appears that Stompy Bot, the makers of the Heavy Gear Assault video game which apparently hasn't been playable for most of the time since September due to server issues according to the steam forum complaint threads, has changed its name to Blocplay.
It seems to me like DP9 really, really thinks Heavy Gear is an IP that's bigger than it really is. While it may have been big in the past, right now it might as well be an entirely new game that needs to be slowly built back up from ground level.
While they can certainly draw more initial support from old fans, it's still nowhere near the
Not to mention the decade of mismanagement that caused most retailers to stop carrying it.
What ever happened to the fleet scale stuff for example?
If they really wanted to bring back HG, it requires a reboot. Updated higher quality art, updated designs and sculpts, more and better writing that treats it as a property no one knows.
Vertrucio wrote: If they really wanted to bring back HG, it requires a reboot. Updated higher quality art, updated designs and sculpts, more and better writing that treats it as a property no one knows.
I dunno. It feels to me at least like the first plastics kickstarter would have been the time for a full fluff and visual reboot IMO. I don't think it would succeed with DP9 still at the helm at this point.
I remember the KS falling quite flat and the fluff from the KS being shoehorned on the regular HG, which made little sense, but I don't think there's been any movement after the KS failed.
In an effort to provide constructive feedback similar to the original intent of this thread four years ago, what would it take for casual readers here to get back into HG? If the answer is something spiteful like the company going out of business or Robert and Dave running away together leaving a stranger in control, please don't bother responding. When I started this thread shortly before the knowledge of what ultimately became the LRB was announced, it was to point out why folks didn't pick up Heavy Gear (a topic that couldn't be openly discussed at the time on the official forums). Today, I'd like to focus the discussion in light of the recent kickstarter on what would bring you back.
For me, I suspect that it would take a bottom to top revamp of the game rules, background, and miniatures. I *love* the LeClerc era miniatures (and the RAFM classics) but I'm middle aged now and I don't think they'll ever get the same kind of interest from younger generations. The HGA designs show both the benefits and perils of updating the designs to modern mech asthetics. I'm just spitballing but I think the time for mass battle HG has passed with the relative meh reception of the plastics and LRB (from an outsider's perspective based on online player engagement as I don't have any sales data obviously). I think the last, best hope for HG would be a return to the anime roots ala a Relic Knights sort of visual/modelling revamp that embraced the cheesy anime asthetics for a skirmish game. And, for a certain someone, I'm not advocating SPM style business practices, just the visuals. If it were 10 years ago, I'd have been advocating prepainted randomized booster minis as I think HG would have been perfect but the DP9 of today likely doesn't have even a fraction of the resources necessary to put that into production.
If HG were to sell off to Hasbro or some other professional company, then I'd be looking for plastics that match the quality of the 1/144 Tactical-era metals and rules that are comparable in complexity to AoS (but with simpler unit definition). Not going to happen, tough.
DP9 needs a more aggressive release schedule. New releases keep people interested in the game. The problem is that they've essentially filled their catalog and are down to either creating new units we don't need, or re-sculpting old units. The plastics are sort of the second option, though they're trading quality for price point.
Scale change is a touchy subject for the long time HG fans, and I don't think DP9 could move Blitz away from 12mm to the more popular 15mm, or bring back RAFM scale, unless they did that strictly on a 'for painters and collectors' basis. They could do a 28mm line of gears for painters and build an entire, more complex game around 3-5 gears per side plus some infantry (Infinity, but with Gears), but juggling another game line would require more resources. I'd back a Kickstarter to make 28mm gears in plastic - probably sticking to Hunter/Jager chassis with tons of options - and you could stick the game in the early timeline when those gears predominated the battlefield. Pre-War of the Alliance or even earlier.
I do think an AoS style army building using keywords might work better than the current system. So many of the subfactions have crossover units (Eastern Sun Emirates can use 1 gear squad from North or Peace River, etc) that would really be simplified with "can use 1 unit with [keyword]" instead of writing out a bunch of restrictions.
I think the last, best hope for HG would be a return to the anime roots ala a Relic Knights sort of visual/modelling revamp that embraced the cheesy anime asthetics for a skirmish game. And, for a certain someone, I'm not advocating SPM style business practices, just the visuals.
I definitely think skirmish is the way to go, and while I wouldn't go too cartoony I think there definitely needs to be some new art.
Honestly, I think the KS and plastics should have been handled more as a full reboot. It should have been about re-announcing the game, making a big splash and trying to build a fanbase.
I'd back a Kickstarter to make 28mm gears in plastic - probably sticking to Hunter/Jager chassis with tons of options - and you could stick the game in the early timeline when those gears predominated the battlefield. Pre-War of the Alliance or even earlier.
I'd love it. 28mm scale would make the gears like... 54mm tall? I'm not sure I can really visualize the scale offhand.
ScarletRose wrote: Honestly, I think the KS and plastics should have been handled more as a full reboot. It should have been about re-announcing the game, making a big splash and trying to build a fanbase.
FWIW, I advocated for that both in public and private to no avail. I wanted the starter to skip Caprice (despite that being only faction in plastic I was interested in) and reset the game to the first Earth Invasion with the North/South vs the CEF. The other factions would have rules (some necessarily "counts as" style) but the focus in the books and fluff would firmly be on the above. Next, the badlands and earth allies would slowly get their turn in the rules just like they did in the original HGrpg as the story progressed.
A full reboot, a redo of the rules, more then AoS, but less then the current rules. Simplify squad building, or make the squad the basis of the game. Your army is the combat group, with a 'big' squad, and the rest of the army are support units. Don't sell it as an army game, sell it as a skirmish game ala: infinity (but nowhere near that complex!!!!)
Another possibility that would link in the old HG could be a mechromunda style game. Basically a campaign mode as the basic game where you can accumulate skills and such. It would remove the need for unit types, and DP9 could get back to their RPG roots.
I also forgot: BETTER MARKETING!!!!
I only learned about their first kickstarter because I stumbled on a "what's wrong with HG" thread. (This one in fact).
John Prins wrote: I'd back a Kickstarter to make 28mm gears in plastic - probably sticking to Hunter/Jager chassis with tons of options - and you could stick the game in the early timeline when those gears predominated the battlefield. Pre-War of the Alliance or even earlier.
All of my money, if for collecting and painting alone. I might even play an actual game of that, and I haven't even gamed in 15 years.
Guys, it's dead.
Yeah, we all have fond memories of the game and setting when they were good, 20 years ago. Or when it had potential as a mini game, mid-2000s, thanks to Phil's resculpts.
There have been many opportunities, and attempts, they all ended in failure, "because DP9™". Out of charity, I won't mention the RPG project by Arkrite, or the video game.
At this point, it's too far gone to be saved, the setting is a mess, the plastic minis are average at best, and the game itself is lacking, in no small part because DP9 won't or can't invest in it.
There's still a pulse, yeah, but otherwise, it's flatlined.
HudsonD wrote: Guys, it's dead.
Yeah, we all have fond memories of the game and setting when they were good, 20 years ago. Or when it had potential as a mini game, mid-2000s, thanks to Phil's resculpts.
There have been many opportunities, and attempts, they all ended in failure, "because DP9™". Out of charity, I won't mention the RPG project by Arkrite, or the video game.
At this point, it's too far gone to be saved, the setting is a mess, the plastic minis are average at best, and the game itself is lacking, in no small part because DP9 won't or can't invest in it.
There's still a pulse, yeah, but otherwise, it's flatlined.
So game over, man? Game over? I'll put you in the never again category.
warboss wrote: In an effort to provide constructive feedback similar to the original intent of this thread four years ago, what would it take for casual readers here to get back into HG? If the answer is something spiteful like the company going out of business or Robert and Dave running away together leaving a stranger in control, please don't bother responding. When I started this thread shortly before the knowledge of what ultimately became the LRB was announced, it was to point out why folks didn't pick up Heavy Gear (a topic that couldn't be openly discussed at the time on the official forums). Today, I'd like to focus the discussion in light of the recent kickstarter on what would bring you back.
For me, I suspect that it would take a bottom to top revamp of the game rules, background, and miniatures. I *love* the LeClerc era miniatures (and the RAFM classics) but I'm middle aged now and I don't think they'll ever get the same kind of interest from younger generations. The HGA designs show both the benefits and perils of updating the designs to modern mech asthetics. I'm just spitballing but I think the time for mass battle HG has passed with the relative meh reception of the plastics and LRB (from an outsider's perspective based on online player engagement as I don't have any sales data obviously). I think the last, best hope for HG would be a return to the anime roots ala a Relic Knights sort of visual/modelling revamp that embraced the cheesy anime asthetics for a skirmish game. And, for a certain someone, I'm not advocating SPM style business practices, just the visuals. If it were 10 years ago, I'd have been advocating prepainted randomized booster minis as I think HG would have been perfect but the DP9 of today likely doesn't have even a fraction of the resources necessary to put that into production.
I'm... honestly not sure. I had already drifted away from "contemporary" Heavy Gear long before the gak went down with the current administration, so my relation with the company/the onwers of the company wouldn't actually matter much.
See, I'm an RPG fluff nut first and a wargamer a somewhat distant second, particularly regarding Heavy Gear. And contmporary Heavy Gear have been crapping all over the setting for... a decade, now, or whereabouts. So, from that perspective, the game's mostly dead to me. I am content with the fact that I have everything I could possibly need to play the original one, though, so it's not much of a matter. And Arkrite... well, Arkrite's mostly dead in the water, but who knows. I can still hope. But even then, I would be getting a revamped, maybe slightly tweaked, version of what I already have. And that's not really what the game needs anymore.
But before writing here my opinion, I'll preamble with two facts. Lately, I've been introduced to two new and very cool modern mecha games: one of those is a wargame, named Mobile Suit Skirmish, and the other one is still in beta and is an RPG (made by the author of the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons), named Lancer.
Both have been very eye opening to me: MSSk has shown me what you can do when you want a fast but still detailed game that threads closely to the way a setting works in their media, whereas Lancer has taught me what you can do with a mecha RPG when you stop being stuck with 90s ideas of available tech (and WWII combat doctrines) and introduce a science fiction more informed by current technological developments.
So, with that said... In my opinion, to reboot the game and get me interested again on it, they should probably kill it, and start anew. The ideas of Heavy Gear , setting wise, are still very interesting (far in the future, colonized worlds, breakdown of the colonial power, etc...), but the actual implementation, particularly if you want to make it actually conductive for a modern tactical level wargame... needs to change. Like, a lot.
So make a new game out of it, from scratch, informed by what you liked about Heavy Gear, and by how do you want the game to play, and go from there. Keeping the setting in 90% stasis but at the same time trying to add sweeping retcons to it it's simply not working. So do it again, and now start by finding ways to put into it what you want in instead of shoehorning it where it doesn't belong.
Wargaming wise, I'd prefer they kept the game on a "1-2 Gear squads with maybe some support per side" level, and able to play that in under 1 to 1.5 hours. That or 28mm level on a scale similar to 2nd edition 40k (20-30 minis per side or whereabouts, with some vehicles per side if you want). I remember talking with Greg some time ago about doing some resin 28mm Gears, but that seems to be in the backburner too.
Setting/RPG wise, well... that's more complicated, but basically get unstuck from the 90s, for a start.
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ScarletRose wrote:I'd love it. 28mm scale would make the gears like... 54mm tall? I'm not sure I can really visualize the scale offhand.
Were we using the current "32mm is approximately 1.7-8m" scale of GW for their newer human stuff, a Hunter (4.3 meters high) would be about 80.9mm of height on the upper side, which is almost exactly the same height of the Easy to Build Redemptor Dreadnought, or 76,4mm on the lower. The rest would be correspondingly bigger or smaller.
Were we using the current "32mm is approximately 1.7-8m" scale of GW for their newer human stuff, a Hunter (4.3 meters high) would be about 80.9mm of height on the upper side, which is almost exactly the same height of the Easy to Build Redemptor Dreadnought, or 76,4mm on the lower. The rest would be correspondingly bigger or smaller.
A Ghostkeel would be another good proxy for size.
<Stares at unpainted Ghostkeel on table>
A truer to 28mm scale could take advantage of Infinity terrain, and a 5m gear would be 70mm tall. Maybe a touch bigger than current gearstriders? Leverage the market for better 28mm terrain rather than GW scale gothic stuff. It's big enough to consider extensive magnetization of the gear, or even straight up building with weapon swaps in mind like a japanese mecha kit.
Were we using the current "32mm is approximately 1.7-8m" scale of GW for their newer human stuff, a Hunter (4.3 meters high) would be about 80.9mm of height on the upper side, which is almost exactly the same height of the Easy to Build Redemptor Dreadnought, or 76,4mm on the lower. The rest would be correspondingly bigger or smaller.
A Ghostkeel would be another good proxy for size.
<Stares at unpainted Ghostkeel on table>
A truer to 28mm scale could take advantage of Infinity terrain, and a 5m gear would be 70mm tall. Maybe a touch bigger than current gearstriders? Leverage the market for better 28mm terrain rather than GW scale gothic stuff. It's big enough to consider extensive magnetization of the gear, or even straight up building with weapon swaps in mind like a japanese mecha kit.
Well, a Ghostkeel would be about the size of a Kodiak or a Spitting Cobra, at least height wise. They would probably be smaller in the other axis.
That said, that would not be a bad size for a 6'x4' table with up to 5 per side.
Albertorius wrote: But before writing here my opinion, I'll preamble with two facts. Lately, I've been introduced to two new and very cool modern mecha games: one of those is a wargame, named Mobile Suit Skirmish, and the other one is still in beta and is an RPG (made by the author of the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons), named Lancer.
How are those two for use with other settings in that genre (HG and Robotech being the two most pertinent for me)? I'm not particularly a Gundam show fan (although the models look cool). I tried getting into it but it just didn't click with me back in the 90's and early 00's.
Albertorius wrote: But before writing here my opinion, I'll preamble with two facts. Lately, I've been introduced to two new and very cool modern mecha games: one of those is a wargame, named Mobile Suit Skirmish, and the other one is still in beta and is an RPG (made by the author of the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons), named Lancer.
How are those two for use with other settings in that genre (HG and Robotech being the two most pertinent for me)? I'm not particularly a Gundam show fan (although the models look cool). I tried getting into it but it just didn't click with me back in the 90's and early 00's.
MSSk would probably work well enough especially for Robotech (and I plan to stat my minis for it), and I don't really foresee many problems using it for HG either, but the prestatted weapons and many of the traits are quite Gundam-centric.
Lancer, OTOH... is another matter. I certainly wouldn't see it working for Robotech, and for HG you'd be needing to prestat all the Gears (the default setting is quite a bit more advanced; the setting is a sprawling space society with thousand of colonized worlds, and the Gears are actually built onsite using high tech fabbers and the fabrication templates the character has access to). But other than that, it would probably work well enough, and the combat is much less map dependent than HG2nd.
(Tangent: What did you watch from Gundam? There's a lot of very bad series out there, but there are also some really good ones. Protip: IMHO, Wing is NOT one of the good ones )
Thanks for the rundown. I might take a look at MSSK then. I don't recall what shows I watched but the last was on the cartoon network in the US about 15 years ago. I just remember a couple of minutes long stretches of characters staring off into space waxing poetically about the meaning of life that was the final straw for me. Cool Gundams and uniforms though.
Well, G Gundam was fun for what it was, but it wasn't exactly realistic space warfare
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warboss wrote: Thanks for the rundown. I might take a look at MSSK then. I don't recall what shows I watched but the last was on the cartoon network in the US about 15 years ago. I just remember a couple of minutes long stretches of characters staring off into space waxing poetically about the meaning of life that was the final straw for me. Cool Gundams and uniforms though.
Yeah, sounds like Wing, I think, which is not exactly one of my favorites ^^. Out of the new stuff, you might want to take a look at Iron Blooded Orphans, as it's set in a completely alternate settings and you wouldn't need any prior knowledge.
Plus for what little bit of it that I've seen, it hasn't been doing that overly preachy "war is bad, so we need to kill people" shtick that's been a hallmark of the franchise.
Mmmpi wrote: Plus for what little bit of it that I've seen, it hasn't been doing that overly preachy "war is bad, so we need to kill people" shtick that's been a hallmark of the franchise.
OTOH, out of the "classic" theme and timeline, I wholeheartedly recommend MS Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket. Short, 6 episodes OVA series with a much smaller focus, but one of the best (if not the best, outright) out of the classic stuff.
Mmmpi wrote: Plus for what little bit of it that I've seen, it hasn't been doing that overly preachy "war is bad, so we need to kill people" shtick that's been a hallmark of the franchise.
OTOH, out of the "classic" theme and timeline, I wholeheartedly recommend MS Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket. Short, 6 episodes OVA series with a much smaller focus, but one of the best (if not the best, outright) out of the classic stuff.
And basically where some of Jovian Chronicle's best mecha designs were cribbed from.
Mmmpi wrote: Plus for what little bit of it that I've seen, it hasn't been doing that overly preachy "war is bad, so we need to kill people" shtick that's been a hallmark of the franchise.
OTOH, out of the "classic" theme and timeline, I wholeheartedly recommend MS Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket. Short, 6 episodes OVA series with a much smaller focus, but one of the best (if not the best, outright) out of the classic stuff.
And basically where some of Jovian Chronicle's best mecha designs were cribbed from.
I kinda think JC's Syreen was their best design. Which Zeon MA was it based on?
Mmmpi wrote: Plus for what little bit of it that I've seen, it hasn't been doing that overly preachy "war is bad, so we need to kill people" shtick that's been a hallmark of the franchise.
OTOH, out of the "classic" theme and timeline, I wholeheartedly recommend MS Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket. Short, 6 episodes OVA series with a much smaller focus, but one of the best (if not the best, outright) out of the classic stuff.
And basically where some of Jovian Chronicle's best mecha designs were cribbed from.
I kinda think JC's Syreen was their best design. Which Zeon MA was it based on?
I think part of it was from 0083's Dra-C. 0083 was another big source of obvious JC designs.
But before writing here my opinion, I'll preamble with two facts. Lately, I've been introduced to two new and very cool modern mecha games: one of those is a wargame, named Mobile Suit Skirmish, and the other one is still in beta and is an RPG (made by the author of the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons), named Lancer.
But before writing here my opinion, I'll preamble with two facts. Lately, I've been introduced to two new and very cool modern mecha games: one of those is a wargame, named Mobile Suit Skirmish, and the other one is still in beta and is an RPG (made by the author of the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons), named Lancer.
Apparently Dave has left/is leaving . I didn't see that coming. At the very end:
Dream Pod 9 News: Line Developer, Dave McLeod, is leaving DP9, we wish him well and thank him for all the hard work he has put in over the years on the Heavy Gear Blitz and Jovian Wars gamelines. In the short term Robert will be taking on his duties, working with the players on the new Rules Committees to improve the rules and will continue to do layout as before. We'll be looking for a few players that are knowledgeable about the rules to form the core of the Rules Committees and work with Robert on future updates for the games and to help answering online rules questions from players.
warboss wrote: Apparently Dave has left/is leaving . I didn't see that coming. At the very end:
Dream Pod 9 News: Line Developer, Dave McLeod, is leaving DP9, we wish him well and thank him for all the hard work he has put in over the years on the Heavy Gear Blitz and Jovian Wars gamelines. In the short term Robert will be taking on his duties, working with the players on the new Rules Committees to improve the rules and will continue to do layout as before. We'll be looking for a few players that are knowledgeable about the rules to form the core of the Rules Committees and work with Robert on future updates for the games and to help answering online rules questions from players.
So, Dave who was also doing the casting, is leaving, and not getting replaced. Meanwhile, Robert will be managing rules development ( ! ), and is looking for fan-friend unpaid labor. That looks real hopeful, yeah...
That explains why the next KS is getting pushed back to March.
I wasn't aware of that. Yeah, that would be a good reason (i.e. having half the company leave).
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HudsonD wrote: So, Dave who was also doing the casting, is leaving, and not getting replaced. Meanwhile, Robert will be managing rules development ( ! ), and is looking for fan-friend unpaid labor. That looks real hopeful, yeah...
I suppose if you wanted any hard to find resin/metal minis from the traditional Blitz line and were waiting for a super sale from a third party (which frankly are hard to find for years.. the 3rd parties, not sales), it might be good to order sooner rather than later in case there isn't anyone there for the forseeable future to cast. I don't know if Dave lined up a replacement or not before leaving...
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Mmmpi wrote: Well, looks like I shouldn't be expecting much out of DP9 for a while.
Were you prior to my post other than crowdfunding campaigns?
Mmmpi wrote: Well, looks like I shouldn't be expecting much out of DP9 for a while.
Were you prior to my post other than crowdfunding campaigns?
Ok, less then before. Which wasn't much after the rules update debacle.
I forgot about the rules thing. I wonder if that issue (since the rules were largely his responsibilty) was the straw that broke the camel's back (either his or Robert's regarding the poor reception to almost two years worth of rules playtesting/revision). I could definitely see that being a source of friction.
I forgot about the rules thing. I wonder if that issue (since the rules were largely his responsibilty) was the straw that broke the camel's back (either his or Robert's regarding the poor reception to almost two years worth of rules playtesting/revision). I could definitely see that being a source of friction.
FWIW, Dave still has his page on the DP9 forum. If he were fired, I'd expect that to vanish rather quickly.
Edit: Never mind, it seems Robert doesn't delete people's profiles from the forums
warboss wrote: I wonder if that issue (since the rules were largely his responsibilty) was the straw that broke the camel's back (either his or Robert's regarding the poor reception to almost two years worth of rules playtesting/revision). I could definitely see that being a source of friction.
I think it's more likely to be a money issue, with Robert unable to pay a full-timer. Knowing in advance when it'd run out would fit with rushing out the rules before he leaves.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I thought that Utopia was supposed to be a big money-maker for the Pod, right? According to their fans, it was an easy sell, right?
I don't really remember any of their fans saying that, honestly. Most said the contrary to that.
Anyways, interesting news, those, and even though Robert seems to be using the regal "we" there, it seems he's all fresh alone now manning DP9. It would be interesting to see what effect, if any, that has on metals/resin production.
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John Prins wrote: Edit: Never mind, it seems Robert doesn't delete people's profiles from the forums
Honestly, that's not a bad thing. He could, and he never has, AFAIK.
HudsonD wrote:I think it's more likely to be a money issue, with Robert unable to pay a full-timer. Knowing in advance when it'd run out would fit with rushing out the rules before he leaves.
Quite possible. I was under the impression that Dave was minority stake owner in the company by now but admittedly that was largely inferred from various comments he made over the years rather than a flat out statement.
Albertorius wrote: It would be interesting to see what effect, if any, that has on metals/resin production.
Or the upcoming plastic production. With Dave gone/going, that's more things for Robert to focus on instead of making sure the barely squeaked by Utopia kickstarter gets done right and on time.
Indeed, it was flat out mystifying as to why DP9 pushed Utopia before PRDF/NuCoal.
Get it over and done with I suppose. It is the one of the two weakest current lines and would have likely failed if not for people pledging in part or full to make a personal and financial statement about supporting the company rather than specifically because they want the rewards. If it were up to me, I'd have probably run it first as well just to see if the faction had enough of a fanbase to ever expand on in the future. That's not really a question with Nucoal and Paxton IMO. As always, YMMV.
Indeed, it was flat out mystifying as to why DP9 pushed Utopia before PRDF/NuCoal.
Get it over and done with I suppose. It is the one of the two weakest current lines and would have likely failed if not for people pledging in part or full to make a personal and financial statement about supporting the company rather than specifically because they want the rewards. If it were up to me, I'd have probably run it first as well just to see if the faction had enough of a fanbase to ever expand on in the future. That's not really a question with Nucoal and Paxton IMO. As always, YMMV.
It doesn't seem a great move to put your worst foot forward right after a cancelled KS, but as you say, maybe Robert views PRDF and NuCoal as slam dunks with the right stretch goal structures.
At the very least, the renders are mostly done, so that's one monkey off Robert's back. Obviously he wants to get all 3 KS done in rapid succession so he can have all of them done in parallel (save on shipping), but I wouldn't expect much in the way of rules changes for a good while.
Also, working alone is just bad from a safety standpoint, especially if you're working with hot metals and spinning equipment. I hope he can find some part time assistance with casting at a minimum.
Or maybe just not cast at all. Someone here (not sure if you) said they hadn't come out with any new non-crowdfunded products in over a year. If sales of the traditional line have slowed because of the lower amount of visibility and the almost complete lack of 3rd parties stocking them, he may have enough on hand of most of the line to keep going for a while. It all depends on sales figures and business plans that we have zero insider knowledge of.
warboss wrote: Or maybe just not cast at all. Someone here (not sure if you) said they hadn't come out with any new non-crowdfunded products in over a year. If sales of the traditional line have slowed because of the lower amount of visibility and the almost complete lack of 3rd parties stocking them, he may have enough on hand of most of the line to keep going for a while. It all depends on sales figures and business plans that we have zero insider knowledge of.
That was me. IIRC, the last new product was a resin helicopter (Fuzion does their resin casting, not in-house), not even spincast metal. As I said earlier, I'd be happy to help with their cash-flow problems by buying some of the stuff being held over for the PRDF Kickstarter. If they honestly can't afford to make the molds on those, then they should be stretch goals on the 2nd (cancelled) KS rather than add-ons.
Mostly I figured the molds for pewter stuff are good to go and Robert was holding it back to pad the KS numbers.
No, not me although it did ping on my saved search notification. Lots of good stuff there but too rich for my blood already considering I have yet to paint any of my assembled ones with days left to go. My guess is that the final price on each lot will end up somewhere around $10-15 per gear overall.
JohnHwangDD wrote: LOL, ok, just curious - it would have been a funny coincidence
Also, isn't $10/gear what the Pod charges for 1/144?? The big RAFM stuff is a steal at that price!
As long as you appreciate the slightly different styling and don't mind a scale for your collection that is visually incompatible with likely 95%+ of the collections in the world. In my case, I hadn't been able to drum up a single full heavy gear game in years with my multiple fully painted blitz scale armies and I was very nostalgic for them (they were the first ever minis I bought and painted as a faction).
Yeah, at those prices I really should prepare some of my stuff to sell. It's been years since last time I did anything with them but painting, and I have entirely too much of both scales >_>.
Not sure all of the updates consitute a new "edition" especially in a LRB that is supposedly meant to be incrementally updated. In any case (and in other news), the RAFM minis are almost up to $300 for all the lots combined. Wow, there sure is alot of interest in that scale!
warboss wrote: Not sure all of the updates consitute a new "edition" especially in a LRB that is supposedly meant to be incrementally updated. In any case (and in other news), the RAFM minis are almost up to $300 for all the lots combined. Wow, there sure is alot of interest in that scale!
$300 doesn't seem unreasonable considering how much of it there is. The RAFM stuff is generally more fun to paint, though their QC was crap and some of the designs are too crowded to even pose (Kodiak and King Cobra were really bad in this regard).
Makes me wonder what a RAFM scale redux with Blitz improvements with regard to clearances and missile pods would look like.
John Prins wrote: $300 doesn't seem unreasonable considering how much of it there is. The RAFM stuff is generally more fun to paint, though their QC was crap and some of the designs are too crowded to even pose (Kodiak and King Cobra were really bad in this regard).
Makes me wonder what a RAFM scale redux with Blitz improvements with regard to clearances and missile pods would look like.
I agree that it's a big lot and with it being almost entirely NIB instead of having to break some dumb noob's poor posing apart and clean off the glue while stripping the crappy paint job (an accurate description of my initial RAFM collection's condition when I sold it around 2001ish) is definitely more valuable compared with most similarly sized lots. I agree about the QA and roughly 1 in 3 blisters I got have a major uncorrectable mistake (like the a wrong head or missing backpack).
While my first instinct is to applaud a RAFM scale redux, the question is much more complex than initially it seems. Would they go with the original RAFM style sculpts? Or go with the supposedly exact to the RPG tactical scale? Or the exaggerated for 12mm LeClerc blitz era proportions? Then there is the veritable minefield of invalidating the plastics and existing collections yet again in the eyes of some players. Let's face it, DP9 is now apparently a one man operation and Robert is probably not capable or knowledgeable enough to wear all hats at once for a single marquee product line let alone an additional related spin off.
Honestly, a RAFM scale redux isn't happening - ever - and I'd personally rather push for a 28mm line, but it's interesting to think about.. The RAFM era stuff had its flaws - and I don't just mean in the casting and QC - but I honestly think HG would be more popular today if they had stuck with HO scale.
RAFM was hurting the line with their crap QC, but the scale change alienated a lot of the players. Invalidating someone's models will do that. Add in the poor reception to the Tac era minis, and it wasn't until the current Blitz lineup that we got more attractive proportions.
Yes I'm comparing a Warrior to a Hunter, I haven't painted LeClerc era Hunters.
I mean, look a the loss of 'bulk' in the Tac scales from the RAFM era, and then LeClerc bulked it back up again, which was a good decision. Now, the Tac scale rocket pods are pretty much iconic, and I'm halfway tempted to strip down and retrofit a RAFM era gear with them to see how it looks.
For a lot players, though, it was too late. The RPG was effectively dead because 3rd Edition and SilCore weren't well received, even if Blitz turned out all right (relatively speaking).
Unfortunate that DP9 couldn't get the RAFM molds/masters, but IIRC there was also the matter of USA lead laws that had to be addressed, making casting more expensive and prompting a move to a smaller scale for economic reasons alone. I wonder where we'd be if they had stuck with HO, though. Obviously gears would cost more, and we might have moved entirely to resins at this point, but the various scale and proportion changes were only bad for the community.
@Ashley - 1/35 *is* big for tabletop wargaming, but not too big if you were doing 1v1 or 2v2 duels on a 4'x6' tabletop.
But then consider that Mobile Suit Skirmish is 3-5 MS per side, typically standing 5" tall, like the 1/35 scale Gasarki kit above.
That's why I suggest 1/72, which gets the typical size down to a RT-era Dreadnought, allowing to fit multiple squads and combined arms with infantry that aren't too small, nor AFVs that aren't too big.
I wasn't actually referring to the scale in that original pic in case it's not obvious but rather the circle of life irony of bandai making votom inspired gears while also making historically making votoms as well..
Yeah, too big. I LOVE the Gasaraki designs, but those models are about the size of 1/144 Gundams
Spoiler:
There are 1/48 VOTOMS out there (and ironically enough, 1/144 as well). Closest scale shot I could find is next to a Tamiya paint bottle
I like VOTOMS as a show, but the designs have never really captured me, even the re-imagined recent versions still have that torso that's just a little too big compared to the arms and legs and the huge dome-top head for my taste in mechs. I'd love some 1/48 fully detailed Heavy Gear models, however. The RAFM ones are just a bit too small, but some 3" Gears would be great, especially if outscourced to that resin company DP9 uses. I really wish I'd picked up some of the 4" Pathfinder Exos for JC when they were available.
Albertorius wrote: Heh, I actually liked the fact that, for the most part, VOTOMS were fuction over form.
I did too. I also used to like the lesser extent version of that which HG had where the solution to everything wasn't just to make gears ever bigger and more powerful.
Albertorius wrote: Heh, I actually liked the fact that, for the most part, VOTOMS were fuction over form.
I did too. I also used to like the lesser extent version of that which HG had where the solution to everything wasn't just to make gears ever bigger and more powerful.
Oh, absolutely. That's one of the charms of the setting, and it made it be very believable. Particularly because it was extrapolated to everything, not only Gears and Gear-adjacent stuff.
Albertorius wrote: Heh, I actually liked the fact that, for the most part, VOTOMS were fuction over form.
I did too. I also used to like the lesser extent version of that which HG had where the solution to everything wasn't just to make gears ever bigger and more powerful.
I wonder when we'll get color-coded Gear Combiners, requries a set of 5 to make a Mega Gear!
Oh, absolutely. That's one of the charms of the setting, and it made it be very believable. Particularly because it was extrapolated to everything, not only Gears and Gear-adjacent stuff.
Agreed! I liked that there was a tool box you could refer to with Gears being the swiss army knife capable of performing many roles adequately but clearly not the optimal choice for much of it.
It's funny (in a sad clown way not the haha kind) that we're more excited about the appearance of DP9's first products on the second hand market than their current efforts.
Besides, my personal interest only lies with the super-rare 1st gen 1/144 scale pre-Blitz product with the hazard markings.
The new stuff is oversized, though I wouldn't be opposed to getting a RAFM Cobra to count as whatever the South's Gear Strider is.
I'm not an old HG grognard, but I do prefer the RAFM sculpts sizing decisions over the current make things larger or smaller to indicate their relative "power."
And, while I appreciate this is old territory to go over, choosing 10/12mm over a more popular wargame size like 15mm beggars belief.
Oh yes, I do know I've just done the whole wargame size not scale thing, so let me rephrase.
Choosing 1/87th was quite frankly a very bold decision that isolated the range from more common wargaming scales. Then going to 1/144th or 1/160th was made the original 1/87th scale look positively unimaginative.
BTW: I'm British, the above is British sense of humour.
At the time, was 15mm a more popular scale? I remember when Gear Krieg came out in 15mm it was considered surprising because everyone did WW2 in 20mm or 6mm (Battlefront at the time were a mostly unheard-of manufacturer with a small WW2 armour range). I can't remember if anyone was doing 15mm SF except GZG (or again, did that start later?)
Describing it in terms of a modelling scale rather than a wargaming size was the unusual bit. That's pretty new, though; it was only the miniatures released with the Blitz rules that were "stretched".
But yes, I wish they'd kept everything to scale rather than exaggerating the larger and smaller models.
The scales in Heavy Gear correspond to HO and N scale in the railroad miniatures hobby. I suspect they wanted to capitalize on the plethora of existing terrain in the days before 15mm modern to sci-fi terrain was widely available in the dark and primitive days of the previous millenium.
warboss wrote: The scales in Heavy Gear correspond to HO and N scale in the railroad miniatures hobby. I suspect they wanted to capitalize on the plethora of existing terrain in the days before 15mm modern to sci-fi terrain was widely available in the dark and primitive days of the previous millenium.
For "real world", railroad terrain is still the answer.
Yeah, I really have no issue with the move to 10/12mm scale stuff specifically because of all the N-scale rairoad terrain out there, it made sense. Same reasoning they must have used for the the old RAFM stuff being 1/87 instead of 25mm or 28mm, 1/87 is HO scale.
And especially now that there's so much awesome N-scale modern terrain coming out of Japan, I've been tempted to do a city board just because it'd be awesome. Tomytec has been around for a few years doing pre-painted terrain in N-scale, they have all kinds of awesome buildings, and there's a bunch of Outland Buildings as well if you want high-rises. All of them are super cheap, like $10 to $15 range, but you'd need quite a few to to do a full board
Kalamadea wrote: Tomytec has been around for a few years doing pre-painted terrain in N-scale, they have all kinds of awesome buildings, and there's a bunch of Outland Buildings as well if you want high-rises. All of them are super cheap, like $10 to $15 range, but you'd need quite a few to to do a full board
Paint it Pink wrote: I'd almost agree, but – and this may be because I'm from England – 15mm SF has been around since almost forever.
Let me define that.
From the 1980s.: Citadel nee GW Traveller, Laserburn, and GZG all go back that far.
Don't get me wrong, just saying for the record.
I know 15mm scifi existed back then but I don't believe that 15mm terrain was as widely available as now. Back in the late mid to late 90's in the US, the breath and quality of railroad scaled terrain in the average local railroad hobby store soundly beat out what I was seeing for sale at the much larger Gencon convention for modern or scifi games. That's obviously no longer the case now but I was more referring to the motives DP9 had (and the advice their staff directly gave me when I inquired about RAFM scale terrain during that era).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kalamadea wrote: Yeah, I really have no issue with the move to 10/12mm scale stuff specifically because of all the N-scale rairoad terrain out there, it made sense. Same reasoning they must have used for the the old RAFM stuff being 1/87 instead of 25mm or 28mm, 1/87 is HO scale.
And especially now that there's so much awesome N-scale modern terrain coming out of Japan, I've been tempted to do a city board just because it'd be awesome. Tomytec has been around for a few years doing pre-painted terrain in N-scale, they have all kinds of awesome buildings, and there's a bunch of Outland Buildings as well if you want high-rises. All of them are super cheap, like $10 to $15 range, but you'd need quite a few to to do a full board
Nice! Those are relativley affordable if purchased over time. They obviously need to be painted unlike some railroad terrain but at least you're not limiting yourself to only fighting in the midwest United States sometime in the 1960s+/-20 years.
Well, haven't posted in this thread in ages, and what a long, strange trip it's been for the Pod. I have to admit that I should probably eat a little crow for saying that I thought they were screwed after losing money by mishandling the exchange rate; I really expected them to be in deep trouble trying to deliver the moulds they'd promised with the money they had left. Kudos to Robert for managing to find his way through that mess, even if it was self-inflicted. A far better performance than Palladium. Still, I think they managed it by cutting a couple figures, AND delivering some remarkably poor plastics (everything about their "weird" proportions and posing is for ease and cost of moulding).
I saw Warboss also asked the question again about what would it take to bring one back to the Pod... in a way, I never left. I just recently bought some of their RPG PDFs, both on DTRPG and Bundle of Holding, as I've been thinking of running some Silhouette-based RPG sessions for the first time in about 10 years. No doubt I'll be mixing some minis-based mecha combat in there where appropriate. But, dear God! I wish Robert would have some competent scans made of their books. The official PDFs are worse than amateur hour, and I could produce (and have in the past) something vastly better if I was willing to destroy my books (which you can hilariously see the Pod did in some of their scans, and yet still the quality was atrocious!).
Beyond that? They'd have to lower their prices on most of their stuff to convince me to buy it anywhere other than second-hand. Which they won't do, and that's a shame, as I'd still happily spend money with them in spite of everything (I sold off my HG RAFM stuff (which included everything ever produced) a number of years ago, and then the bulk of my HGTac stuff a couple years ago). I'm now thinking of diving back in with the Leclerc stuff, and I was toying with purchasing a bunch of the JC minis, so it could still happen. But again, not at the current pricing.
As for the new rules? Who cares! Like Albertorius, I have everything I'll ever need from the Pod in that respect, and I have liked the newer rulesets less and less with each iteration (though there've been bright spots I've stolen). Beyond that, like HudsonD said, the Pod I knew and fell in love with has been gone for almost twenty years now. Anything else creative I might've wished they'd done will simply never happen (or it will happen, but it'll be done so badly that it'll make me throw up in my mouth a little). Ah, well... such is life.
I'm looking at putting together a WFPA, and I'm not sure what exactly goes in it. I know the whole older equipment thing, and I understand the current rules for making a WFPA list. What I'm interested in are the rough limits. I know Cheetahs, Jags, Kodiaks, and Grizzlies are SU only. But even then, how rare are they? What is an appropriate amount of the rare stuff to fit the fluff. If I make an army that has three support units, and in each one are 3 Jags for example, is that too much? Also basic formation stuff. What squad sizes do they prefer (4/5/6?) stuff like that. I recently picked up the League book, but I'm still working my way through it.
Do you have access to the older rules (whether the RPG or the more recent blitz rules)? Those have some additional restrictions IIRC. I wouldn't spread out so many relatively advanced/modern gears in an WFPA army if you're trying to go for the theme especially given the small size of actual played armies people use. Personally, I'd say limit the modern gen gears to a single unit (core and support) and make that the "elite" squad. Other than that, make sure to upgrade as many of the older equipped squads to veteran as possible to illustrate their "oldie but goodie" grizzled veteran style. Just my thoughts so YMMV.
p.s. I guess DP9 has stopped messaging the original kickstarter backers (I was in for a buck) about the newer campaigns. Wasn't the Nucoal one supposed to be up by now or something?
I think I remember Rob saying the Nucoal/PR one was being pushed back.
And He's apparently so busy running a company solo that he missed the last KS update. vf-xx on the DP9 forums apparently found a "Sorry I'm late" apology on FB. Still nothing as of me writing this on the KS page though.
Mmmpi wrote: And He's apparently so busy running a company solo that he missed the last KS update.
I kinda figured that was going to happen, very glad I immediately bought the last of the JC models I needed when it was first announced that DP9 had dropped to a 1-man operation. Figured if I waited even a bit he was gonna get too swamped to handle orders. Kinda wish i had also gotten some resin mount legs, but oh well
AndrewGPaul wrote: At the time, was 15mm a more popular scale? I remember when Gear Krieg came out in 15mm it was considered surprising because everyone did WW2 in 20mm or 6mm (Battlefront at the time were a mostly unheard-of manufacturer with a small WW2 armour range). I can't remember if anyone was doing 15mm SF except GZG (or again, did that start later?)
In SF, 15mm was definitely a thing. Multiple ranges, building etc, etc.
But you're right about the WW2 being either 20mm or 6mm.
Also, I suspect Gear Krieg wasn't quite the right name. Weird War Krieg more accurately describes the genre, except that Weird tends to imply super-science, and the Gear Krieg models don't quite nail it.
I'm looking at putting together a WFPA, and I'm not sure what exactly goes in it. I know the whole older equipment thing, and I understand the current rules for making a WFPA list. What I'm interested in are the rough limits. I know Cheetahs, Jags, Kodiaks, and Grizzlies are SU only. But even then, how rare are they? What is an appropriate amount of the rare stuff to fit the fluff. If I make an army that has three support units, and in each one are 3 Jags for example, is that too much? Also basic formation stuff. What squad sizes do they prefer (4/5/6?) stuff like that. I recently picked up the League book, but I'm still working my way through it.
Locked and Loaded is a good reference for this. Jaguars were mostly in Strike Squads, which the WFPA has listed as Elites, and Ranger Squads, which were Specialists. That puts Jaguars into the 'pretty darn rare' category.
As a suggestion, I'd attach Jaguars only to Veteran units - even though the SU won't be veteran per the WFPA rules, unless you're taking the Elite Army option, then go nuts. But if you're going non-elite, slap all the Jaguars in a SU attached to Veteran unit, don't spread them out.
Ditto with Cheetahs, though you're not being fluffy with WFPA unless you take Bobcats over Cheetahs.
WFPA should be 5 man squads. 6 man squads was a southern thing. WFPA is about older gears, Razorbacks, Bears, Bobcats, SD Hunters, Mad Dogs. Can't go wrong with baseline Hunters, either, as WFPA.
Paint it Pink wrote: I can't afford to commit myself to it without a really good reason.
Happy to give DP9 money, but only for things i want.
Pilum infantry in the style of the exoskeleton armor suits in Edge of Tomorrow, now that would see me making a commitment.
I'm in the same boat as long as the design of the plastics is better this time around. The Pilum models would be interesting although infantry scales with HG have always been a bit off. The more recent stuff is larger/more exaggerated which can annoy scale afficionados a bit.
PILUM Infantry got deleted, though who knows what the KS will bring.
Did they actually get deleted from existence or are they just not yet stat'ed up? That's news to me regardless. I don't recall what the issue was with them in old blitz exactly but something was up with their rules (they were as good or better than grel from less points maybe? aka the chief playtester only plays paxton effect).
Did they actually get deleted from existence or are they just not yet stat'ed up? That's news to me regardless. I don't recall what the issue was with them in old blitz exactly but something was up with their rules (they were as good or better than grel from less points maybe? aka the chief playtester only plays paxton effect).
PILUM only showed up in the L&L Paxton Leaguebook, which was valid for what, a couple months? There's been no trace of them since. Given that there has been no attempt to show a render for them, given all the renders previewed to date for Paxton, I'd assume they're toast. I'd like to be proven wrong, but there's been little sign of the new strider either. Given the current state of DP9, I'll be happy if they push out the stuff that has been rendered.
I'm looking at putting together a WFPA, and I'm not sure what exactly goes in it. I know the whole older equipment thing, and I understand the current rules for making a WFPA list. What I'm interested in are the rough limits. I know Cheetahs, Jags, Kodiaks, and Grizzlies are SU only. But even then, how rare are they? What is an appropriate amount of the rare stuff to fit the fluff. If I make an army that has three support units, and in each one are 3 Jags for example, is that too much? Also basic formation stuff. What squad sizes do they prefer (4/5/6?) stuff like that. I recently picked up the League book, but I'm still working my way through it.
Heh, I didn't see this. Sorry ^^.
Well... it really depends on what fluff you're talking about, as Blitz has regressed more and more, design-wise, with the passing years.
Originally, canonically almost all of the old designs (like, 95%+) were out of active duty in all the polar countries, and the only places you could see relics like the Mad Dog would be museums, the Badlands or some backward local militia. It would be more or less like seeing an M60 Patton in active duty nowadays. The "active duty" Gears list for all polar factions would be way smaller.
Hell, even the current "modern" designs have been in active duties for decades, now (For example, the first production run of the Cheetah dates from back in TN 1888, and the Jaguar dates from before TN 1905).
Time passed, though, and people who saw the designs in the Vehicle Compendiums wanted them, so the Pod decided to retcon that a bit, or a lot. Fast forward to now, were we have armies with Gears from about three different centuries.
So, it's complicated, I guess is what I'm saying ^^. But if you simply stick to the contemporary designs, nobody should tell you anything.
As to the PILUM, well... I can't exactly say I mourn much their passing. The Strider was that one they designed for the... North, I think, that was then changed to Paxton?
Well... it really depends on what fluff you're talking about, as Blitz has regressed more and more, design-wise, with the passing years.
Originally, canonically almost all of the old designs (like, 95%+) were out of active duty in all the polar countries, and the only places you could see relics like the Mad Dog would be museums, the Badlands or some backward local militia. It would be more or less like seeing an M60 Patton in active duty nowadays. The "active duty" Gears list for all polar factions would be way smaller.
Hell, even the current "modern" designs have been in active duties for decades, now (For example, the first production run of the Cheetah dates from back in TN 1888, and the Jaguar dates from before TN 1905).
Time passed, though, and people who saw the designs in the Vehicle Compendiums wanted them, so the Pod decided to retcon that a bit, or a lot. Fast forward to now, were we have armies with Gears from about three different centuries.
So, it's complicated, I guess is what I'm saying ^^. But if you simply stick to the contemporary designs, nobody should tell you anything.
So in theory I could have a cadre of hunters, a cadre of bears and hunters, and Su's with a cheetah and other RU, and a SU of Jag's and still be fairly inline with fluff?
Also, don't worry about missing it. Capt Caveman was forgotten before his time.
Mmmpi wrote: So in theory I could have a cadre of hunters, a cadre of bears and hunters, and Su's with a cheetah and other RU, and a SU of Jag's and still be fairly inline with fluff?
Absolutely! if anything, the Bears would make the unit somewhat outdated, probably coming from a militia or garrison unit; the design has been being phased out since the 1870s, when Northco developed the Grizzly with Shaian, and the only reason it is currently in somewhat wide circulation is because of the WotA. Currently, it is "Pressed back into front-line service during the war, the Bear is now a mainstay of second-line and local militia units". It's also a very popular design in the Badlands, but if it hadn't been mostly retconned, even in the WFP it would have been at best a second-liner (OTOH, the Den Mother was kept in active duty much, much longer). There is a reason why the Bearhunter exists, after all.
So yeah, I'd say your roster would be completely and absolutely fluffy, IMHO.
Also, don't worry about missing it. Capt Caveman was forgotten before his time.
Seriously though, if you need anything don't hesitate to PM me if I don't show signs of life ^^. I love to talk shop, so...
What would be a good thematic opponent for a WFPA unit?
Looking at the map they're across from the Mekong dominion, and right next to NuCoal. The SRA from what I understand, can operate from anywhere in the south, as can MILITIA forces. The CEF invaded that way once, but I'm not sure how their 2nd invasion went/is going so I don't know how Caprice and Utopia would be as enemies. Finally badlanders.
I don't really want to do a northern faction, as much of the equipment/models will be the same. In terms of rules, the badland lists are similar to the WFPA list and with the hodge-podge of equipment. MILITIA's hodge-podge is less of an issue because it's southern equipment.
Basically, I want something that I can use as a lender army, and something that fits as a good opponent in theme and style.
Mmmpi wrote: Basically, I want something that I can use as a lender army, and something that fits as a good opponent in theme and style.
Hm... I'd say go for South, yes, as it would be the most logical most of the time. Of those, you could use any of the following:
- A MILICIA army, maybe a probing one to test the WFPA's readiness (in which case it would probably be low quality rabble) or as part of a full on invasion (in which case it could also be low quality rabble, of course , but it could also be an armor regiment with support elements, or one of the elite MILICIA forces, or one of the formations lent by the other southern armies, or Légion Noire auxiliaries).
- SRA: That would be part of a full bore invasion, most of the time.
- SRA Paratroops: Same as above, but also could be used for wetworks and stuff other than full invasion.
- Légion Noire: Well, that's always a possibility, as they're black ops.
Other than that, you could also do CEF, of course, and PAK/NuCoal if you squint (they could try to shut NMW for good, maybe?)
They are the military section of the SRID, and they act as the special operation division for the southern territories (legion sized). It is widely acknowledged as the elite among commando and special forces units on Terra Nova, and they think of themselves in even more praising terms. They are basically a whole army-sized special ops unit, with their own dedicated support brigades, their own black ops division (well, black-er ops), air cavalry, armor, infantry... you name it, they got it. Plus, they maintain a number of auxiliary regiments in the MILICIA.
Basically, the Légion Noire is the big, bad wolf.
What is the NMW?
Neil Motor Works, in Fort Neil and engine behind the manufacturing might of the NuCoal. Started by WFP expats.
Thanks for the answers everyone. This will give me some stuff to mull over.
Edit: Additional question: Does the Legion Noire use mostly conventional gears and tanks (assuming vet and elite version of course, lots of mamba, kings, and fleur's), or mostly Spec Ops gears?
Mmmpi wrote: Does the Legion Noire use mostly conventional gears and tanks (assuming vet and elite version of course, lots of mamba, kings, and fleur's), or mostly Spec Ops gears?
Mmmpi wrote: Does the Legion Noire use mostly conventional gears and tanks (assuming vet and elite version of course, lots of mamba, kings, and fleur's), or mostly Spec Ops gears?
Yes.
The Legion uses whatever it wants or needs - including the MILICIA spec-ops, when they don't want to do actually dirty deeds themselves.
Mmmpi wrote: Thanks for the answers everyone. This will give me some stuff to mull over.
Edit:
Additional question: Does the Legion Noire use mostly conventional gears and tanks (assuming vet and elite version of course, lots of mamba, kings, and fleur's), or mostly Spec Ops gears?
Well they are legion sized, which is roughly equivalent to a division. Twenty thousand men, and the Légion Noire has its own structure: it is made up of an Air Brigade, a Cavalry Brigade and two "Légion Noir" Brigades (themselves made up of an Infantry Battalion, a Gear Regiment and two Combined Arms Regiments). They can be deployed full as a discrete unit, and they have been used that way ocassionally (IIRC, the last time was in the Battle of Baja, where the legion and the 2nd Western Armor Division took the second CEF beachhead and put an end to the War of the Alliance, but the legion has a complete combined arms approach: each of its legions, brigades and regiments are composed so that they would have all the necessary resources to deploy independently in a wide variety of situations.
Antalope (Sarge Christina "Comms" Diaz vechicle commander) --Smoke --Hunter Killer Defender Drone --a few smugglers in handcuffs
Antalope (Crp. Jaxton "Jaxton?" Jaxtonson VC) --Smoke --a few not quite so petty thieves, a rustler, and a guy who loved sheep a bit differently then most
SU (SK) Sniper Jaguar (Crp. Frieda "Bang" Diaz) --Vet --Precautions
Just a basic patrol, looking for trouble, and makin' some arrests. Hunter XMG is a stand in for a souped up hunter, Lt. Reha has been working on it in her spare time.
The patrol is moving between homesteads, small towns, and ranching stations on both sides of the border. They've snagged a few smugglers, and picked up a few local criminals to be brought in for judgement. But they're almost to the halfway point. A small township just "outside" the WFP that operates a small pirate radio station. Out of boredom the patrol has been listening to the civie broadcasts in shifts, as the rhymes are spit from the lips of the new group from the Emirates "Coup de Rhyme" through the radio. The last bit of transmission picks up static, despite the patrol getting closer. Is the weather acting up? Equipment problems at the station? Or something more sinister?
The Raiders
Spoiler:
Recon Cadre
Black Box Iguana (Major Vincent "Black Knife" Guer) --Vet --Electronic Warfare Specialist
Razorfang Black Mamba (Capt. Marrius "Singer" Slane --2iC --vet --precautions
Striking Iguana (Lt. Arunor "Squints" Parks) --vet
Hunting Iquana (Lt. Aurra "Don't" Tremaine) --Vet
SU (FS) Slashing Cobra (Armand "Nutcracker" Viscou) SU(SK) Brawler Black Mamba (Aurtoro "Sugar" Meshine)
Infantry Platoon
Jackrabbit (Lt. Merce "Rapier" Sevat) --CGL --LPZ
Jackrabbit (Srg. Gary "Shorty" Charbonhomme) --LPZ
The vets are the long time members, they fought along sides the WFPA against the CEF, but they're cold bastards, with the eye on the prize. The non-vet gears are "newbies" recently inducted into the Legion. This is their first trip this far north. "Don't" scares them. The Jackrabbits are a MILITIA company (Led by Lt. Sevat) who had the "luck" to be assigned to the raid. But it's getting rough. The locals on the way didn't like them all that much, most of them are from the Delta, they think (correctly) that Major Guer doesn't care if they live or die, and worst of all, the "special" rations have just about run out, so things are getting antsy.
I like the background you've written for both of them, and the Lynx is a cool little Gear (I like to think that those will sell very well in the civilian market for racing). The only "problem" I might see is that I think they're sold in packs of 2, so you'd have an extra with that configuration, if money is a factor (or do they sell singles now?... Hm, dunno, so that would go the same for some other singles ^^).
I've wanted to try them out for awhile. I plan on adding light tanks, and the lynx might be a good escort for them (in a separate UA of course).
Last I looked, they're still in 2 packs.
My primary concern is that both forces are balanced against each other, I don't want a paper/rock/scissors where one force is the rock to the other's scissor. I think it's fine overall, but the WFPA is rather reliant on LPZ in this list. Also, I'm hoping the increased durability of Hunters and Lynx compared to Iquanas and Jackrabbits makes up for the much more powerful EW I gave the SRA force.
I'll have to defer that one to someone with better knowledge of the current rules than me in this case, as I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough of nuBlitz's rules, I'm afraid ^^
Mmmpi wrote: Turns out I'll have an extra antelope too. They're a 3 pack. But I get paid in a few days, so then it'll be an order in, North first I think.
I posted the lists on the DP9 forum, but if they were dead before, they're extra dead now.
I am utterly surprised to learn that.
Not.
Well, I seem to recall people here were playing nuBlitz, so maybe someone would have anything to add?
Mmmpi wrote: About the antelope or the deadx2 forum?
Hehe. The forums. There have been no new releases in quite some time (at least that I know), and the Pod have been keen from time to time to chase out some of the biggest fans, so... yeah.
Yeah, John Pinz (sp?) was complaning about that awhile back. Apparently the POD has some stuff ready to start producing for PRDF, but it looks like they're holding it for the upcoming KS.
Unfortunately, I can't give any advice on nublitz complex tactics and army construction that is any more reliable than flipping a coin. About all I can do is look at two units and compare stats to see if one is broken or not.
As for holding model back, I don't know if it's a good idea now but it wasn't IMO a good idea for the past two years. What changed? Dave left and DP9 might be a one man operation in terms of full time employees. Before going through the time, money, and effort in casting moulding and running them as well as hiring someone to do it (or spending more time/money/effort in learning to do it himself), it's not a bad idea to see if it will be generate enough funds to make it worth it.
Also, with DP9 apparently moving to a crowdfunding only new release schedule (beyond a single chibi xmas mini assuming that won't stop with Dave's departure), the traditional resin minis that were rumored to have been made years ago might make or break the funding judging by how close the last one came. YMMV.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait.. isn't the new kickstarter supposed to start today? Your post reminded me about it and I looked at my own above for the date. Did it start or get pushed back again?
Ok, thanks. I took a look at KS and searched for Heavy Gear but no results. I thought campaigns usually started at noon but I think a while back they started letting creators choose iirc. Regardless, after the first delay, it won't be a good sign of things to come if Robert can't handle launching/running an already delayed campaign on time on his own let alone the real work of design/prodcution/shipping that comes later.
I wouldn't really be surprised to learn that Dave was the one doing the lion's share of the work regarding the KS either, TBH.
Taking it all into account, and given that he can't really advertise much, doing yet another Kickstarter where they barely reach their goal (or fail to do so) might even be detrimental for the company.
Well, I must say that those two renders look significantly better than the ones from the othe KSs, IMHO... although I have to wonder why all the Chevalier render's views are from above instead od from the side.
Granted I haven't been paying attention in recent years but I did notice after reading the above (and the update with the same that came out for the original kickstarter), I didn't see any mention of the Chasseur Mk II which I preferred (and own) ever. Did that get absorbed into the normal Chasseur or is it just a metal specialty model/possible unmentioned stretch goal?
warboss wrote: Granted I haven't been paying attention in recent years but I did notice after reading the above (and the update with the same that came out for the original kickstarter), I didn't see any mention of the Chasseur Mk II which I preferred (and own) ever. Did that get absorbed into the normal Chasseur or is it just a metal specialty model/possible unmentioned stretch goal?
Could be an upgrade pack too. A different set of arms and backpack maybe?
Automatically Appended Next Post: $JohnDD Yeah, one of the things I liked about the metal chevalier torso was that it reminded me of the nose of a fighter plane.
Could be an upgrade pack too. A different set of arms and backpack maybe?
Possibly if a stretch goal. The difference between the Mk 1 and 2 is actually more (chest, legs, and feet on top of the backpack) but that's me as a fan of the design nitpicking. I could see it reasonably being a leg and backpack bits upgrade to the standard Chasseur.
Mmmpi wrote: I'm not a fan of the Chevalier's feet. I like the way the ones on the metal one looked both sleek and big, rather then the blocky ones in the picture.
I actuall didn't notice but you're absolutely right: the feet of both the Chevalier and the Chasseur are... not very good. I want to say that the Chasseur's are worse because they look like two lego blocks, but...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote: The Chevalier looks good enough, although it looks more like a scaled down giant robot than a VOTOMS-class Gear.
That's a definite issue with most of the "post-CORE" DP9 designs, yes.
So, it looks like Wednesday is when he wants it to go. Don't know if he's advertised it or not. I haven't see any news posted anywhere but the DP9 forum, and that was in response to me asking.
Having said that, I think I like the Jerboa render better then the metal. While I've been less attached to the game line compared to many of you, much of the plastic line still was at the "good enough" level, rather then great. This one though I'm feeling.
It's been a while since I looked at the metal jerboa but I wasn't personally too big a fan of the buttwheel family overall myself so can't comment. The design does seem better than the ones you posted above though. A large part of that may be because it doesn't have puffy lego slippers though.
Thanks for the update. I went to the forum to take a look and found this image. It's admittedly nitpicking but it's really not hard to import a 3d file into a program and take a screen shot. Asthetically, the one gear in the back that wasn't screenshotted in Solidworks sticks out like Waldo hiding in a nudist beach group picture, lol.
Mmmpi wrote: ...He's now advertising his KS. Why didn't he do that earlier?
I see this a lot with Kickstarters, that companies don't advertise until they're a few days in - and by that I mean that news of the KS doesn't show up on the gaming news sites/forums. Not sure why this is, but I generally chalk it up to the creators being too busy getting the campaign ready to talk to those sites.
Is there a belief that more people will sign up for one if it's already hit it's base goal?
There's definitely a psychological element to it. You can cancel your pledge any time before the KS ends, but people shy away from backing one that hasn't hit its pledge goal. I think this has to do with the fact that KS that barely make their starting goal tend to be lower value than ones that have hit a bunch of stretch goals. For example, if the PR/NuC KS only gets 25K, you get 8 minis for $70 CAD, which is kinda crap. OTOH, if it hits 70K, 19 minis for $70 CAD. So people fear the most the KS that barely makes its funding, because it's the lowest possible value.
Note the Utopia KS cranked up the value late in the campaign just to meet the base funding, so it's a bit of a shell game in some respects - I'd wager most KS hold back part of the expected 'starter' to use as stretch goals and build hype.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, it turns out I missed his announcement here on the news forum.
Yeah, the Recent Threads forum moves pretty quickly, it's very easy for stuff to get lost. Even the News and Rumors forum can scroll down pretty quick if there's lots of postings, I wonder if new threads in that forum shouldn't be pinned to the top for a few days or something.
Mmmpi wrote: ...He's now advertising his KS. Why didn't he do that earlier?
Is there a belief that more people will sign up for one if it's already hit it's base goal?
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, it turns out I missed his announcement here on the news forum.
You might not have missed out on it as much as it would appear. The kickstarter thread was posted over in misc other games (not this subforum that has HG as the prototypical example but the other one) and I asked the mods to move it over to news and rumors when I noticed it.
Note the Utopia KS cranked up the value late in the campaign just to meet the base funding, so it's a bit of a shell game in some respects - I'd wager most KS hold back part of the expected 'starter' to use as stretch goals and build hype.
My guess is that we'll see a jump similar to that in the closing days to bump up the funding by a stretch goal or two. This is the money that likely will keep the lights on at DP9 for some portion of the next year or two after all.
On an unrelated note, it's good to see that other folks (even if they're either freelancers or subcontractors) and that it's not just a one man band.
Does Phil do anything anymore with DP9 other than chibis? I don't remember the last traditionally sculpted model in the line that I can recall. The big push during the final years of oldblitz was for the "big" models like aircraft, tanks, and (gear)striders which from what I remember of concept art were all digitally produced. Alan is listed as the resin minis maker but no mention of metals; I wonder if he also does metal models or if once the stock runs out that's it (and the plastics are the only choice).
Greg Perkins is also mentioned and I remember the name from the forums but can't connect it with a username/forum tag.
warboss wrote: Ah, ok, thanks. I knew the name sounded familiar! I remember him for his painted minis but didn't recall him doing graphic design as well.
IIRC Greg did much of the graphic design before, during and immediately after Drop Bears Dive!. My understanding is that he became much less involved when he and Jason Dickerson left to found Arkrite Press. I don't know who took over the graphic design work at that point.
warboss wrote: Ah, ok, thanks. I knew the name sounded familiar! I remember him for his painted minis but didn't recall him doing graphic design as well.
IIRC Greg did much of the graphic design before, during and immediately after Drop Bears Dive!. My understanding is that he became much less involved when he and Jason Dickerson left to found Arkrite Press. I don't know who took over the graphic design work at that point.
Well, going by the layouts (or lack thereof) after Greg's, probably Robert.
warboss wrote: Ah, ok, thanks. I knew the name sounded familiar! I remember him for his painted minis but didn't recall him doing graphic design as well.
IIRC Greg did much of the graphic design before, during and immediately after Drop Bears Dive!. My understanding is that he became much less involved when he and Jason Dickerson left to found Arkrite Press. I don't know who took over the graphic design work at that point.
I didn't realize either of those (that he left to form Arkite or that he did the layouts for a time). Thanks!
Well, going by the layouts (or lack thereof) after Greg's, probably Robert.
It sounds naive now but the old 1st edition RPGHG layouts were part of the reason I loved HG. The overall art and look/layout were quite refreshing in the mid 90's to a gamer whose experience was primarily Palladium products up until that point.
I hadn't checked Kicktraq in a while but, yeah, it went slightly negative for two days but the difference was only 1-2 backers per day dropping a pledge apparanently and they're positive by 1 backer today. I'm not worried (although I'm not a backer admittedly) as I'd expect a mid-campaign lull and even a dip here or there personally. YMMV.
warboss wrote: I wonder with it already being funded if there will be a unlocked stretch goal bonanza like with Utopia last minute to encourage more pledges.
Already happened - from Update #14:
We have updated Stretch Goal 09 to give Backers an amazing reward. At $50K CAD pledged we`ll be adding 3 Crusader IV (FS support unit) and 3 Skirmisher (RC support unit) plastic miniatures to the Peace River Army Commander, Badlands Commander and their Hero of version Reward Level packages. Plus we`ll be adding 3 Chevalier (FS support unit) and 3 Jerboa (RC support unit) plastic miniatures to the NuCoal Army Commander, Badlands Commander and their Hero of version Reward Level packages. With this a Peace River or NuCoal Army Commander reward level will each include 18 plastic miniatures for $70 CAD pledged ($3.89 per mini). And the Badlands Commander reward level will include 36 plastic miniatures for $100 CAD pledged ($2.78 per mini). Plus we have made available all 4 of plastic miniatures as Add-Ons for an Extra Pledge right now for Backers that want to pickup extras, and make full Fire Support or Recon squads (combat groups) instead of support units for the GP and Strike squads.
warboss wrote: I wonder with it already being funded if there will be a unlocked stretch goal bonanza like with Utopia last minute to encourage more pledges.
Already happened - from Update #14:
We have updated Stretch Goal 09 to give Backers an amazing reward. At $50K CAD pledged we`ll be adding 3 Crusader IV (FS support unit) and 3 Skirmisher (RC support unit) plastic miniatures to the Peace River Army Commander, Badlands Commander and their Hero of version Reward Level packages. Plus we`ll be adding 3 Chevalier (FS support unit) and 3 Jerboa (RC support unit) plastic miniatures to the NuCoal Army Commander, Badlands Commander and their Hero of version Reward Level packages. With this a Peace River or NuCoal Army Commander reward level will each include 18 plastic miniatures for $70 CAD pledged ($3.89 per mini). And the Badlands Commander reward level will include 36 plastic miniatures for $100 CAD pledged ($2.78 per mini). Plus we have made available all 4 of plastic miniatures as Add-Ons for an Extra Pledge right now for Backers that want to pickup extras, and make full Fire Support or Recon squads (combat groups) instead of support units for the GP and Strike squads.
Ah, that's what I get for not actually doing more research than simply checking my kicktraq daily chart bookmark. Thanks for the info!
On a tangent to the Kickstarter discussion... do any of you have suggestions for where to part with some of my Heavy Gear stock? I'm wanting to pare down my miniatures collection quite a bit, and I find myself with more HG stuff that I can to admit. I can certainly try EBay, but I was curious if there might be better targeted forum where they might do better. Bartertown would have been my go-to, but I'm not seeing HG stock there anymore. HG is basically unknown on Dakka, so I thought that forum might have get attention either. Any suggestions from the peanut gallery?
IceRaptor wrote: On a tangent to the Kickstarter discussion... do any of you have suggestions for where to part with some of my Heavy Gear stock? I'm wanting to pare down my miniatures collection quite a bit, and I find myself with more HG stuff that I can to admit. I can certainly try EBay, but I was curious if there might be better targeted forum where they might do better. Bartertown would have been my go-to, but I'm not seeing HG stock there anymore. HG is basically unknown on Dakka, so I thought that forum might have get attention either. Any suggestions from the peanut gallery?
When I sell things, I've traditionally copy/paste them to both here and bartertown. There is a slower moving subforum on bartertown so your post doesn't fly off the first page in a day like here. You might want to also try Brandon's Facebook group and others if you're on that platform too. What factions/models are you selling?
warboss wrote: When I sell things, I've traditionally copy/paste them to both here and bartertown. There is a slower moving subforum on bartertown so your post doesn't fly off the first page in a day like here. You might want to also try Brandon's Facebook group and others if you're on that platform too. What factions/models are you selling?
Thanks warboss, I didn't think of Brandon's page. I'm a FB luddite so I'll try BT and Dakka first, but put them there if they don't work.
I'm mostly pruning my Paxton stock and some of the miscellaneous models I received as compensation for work. I probably should drop some of my north models as well - I'm really not playing much at all - but I have a harder time with those. So they may wait for a bit.
Thanks warboss, I didn't think of Brandon's page. I'm a FB luddite so I'll try BT and Dakka first, but put them there if they don't work.
I'm mostly pruning my Paxton stock and some of the miscellaneous models I received as compensation for work. I probably should drop some of my north models as well - I'm really not playing much at all - but I have a harder time with those. So they may wait for a bit.
Cheers!
No worries, glad I could help. You might want to put up the paxton stuff sooner rather than later though as interest will be high now with the Kickstarter for the stuff. As for the rest, I'm in a similar boat (although if you're playing *AT ALL* you've probably got a leg up on most of us fellow grognards!) with three armies that I have painted but won't sell despite not playing for years.
Nonsense. It just means you can still enjoy the property when/if the company collapses.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, I just noticed something from the 5/20 update that I missed the first time.
The locked gears from the KS are apparently available as add-ons even though they aren't unlocked yet. Not sure quite how that's going to work if DP9 doesn't have the money to just make the molds w/out the KS. I guess we'll see.
Mmmpi wrote: Nonsense. It just means you can still enjoy the property when/if the company collapses.
No, I mean it. I have, like, 300 Gears, and that's entirely too many ^^
Have you thought about opening up the largest EUHG distribution hub? You have the stock. How much of that is painted and/or assembled versus still in the box/blister?
I'm sitting around 100 myself, with the bulk in the North. My South is woefully under-represented, and I sold off my NuCoal some while ago. I doubt I'll ever get rid of my Utopia though - that stuff just looks dumb. I'm hoping to keep a small enough sample that I could build 3-4 armies myself to use with my houserules, and drop the rest.
I have around 80 or so painted up non-infantry models (Gears, striders, vehicles) with another dozen blisters still unassembled in the current Blitz scale and another 20-25ish RAFM in various states from assembled to NIB. I'm not really sure how much of that is usable in the current rules (whether technically allowed or worth fielding).
Non-KS I think I have around 50 gears, mostly from E-bay purchases.
With KS, not including the two that haven't delivered yet/still ongoing, well, I got two sets of the four armies.
Of those I have a UMFA half painted, and a SRA and MILITIA half painted. But I left them in a storage container back in New England when I got my current job, so they're out of reach at the moment.
Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately, I've been out of practice with the HG ruleset since it was a beta with just reading the rules (and alpha when last actually playtested) so I frankly can't comment with any shred of authority on whether the changes are for the better or even needed.
Mmmpi wrote: Baconradar on the DP9 forums just posted his fan rules for blitz if anyone is interested.
It's interesting how they changed the skill roll. They exacerbated Shil's innate stasis by making skill contribute a simple +1D6. That's effectively useless once you're rolling 3D or more already. I wonder if they intentionally made the dice contribute less?
I doubt it as most people don't approach HG like you did. I think most folks go with "common wisdom" and don't actually crunch the numbers. Hell, I was one of them until I worked on my own house rules for oldblitz and manually calculated the odds of killing certain gears with certain weapons; the results were quite eye opening. Someone posted a brute force .exe calculator for nublitz years ago on the forum and I used it during the (alpha? beta?) stage to point out how certain weapons that were supposed to be doing a particular role (like anti-armor) were actually worse than those supposedly specializing in other things. I admit I haven't been following their blog too closely so can't say for certain though.
Mmmpi wrote: Are you referring to the part where when you roll, take the highest, and then add 1 for every die of the same number?
Because that seemed weird to me.
He is likely referring to this:
Probably the most obvious change to actual gameplay is to how Skill works: instead of
setting the target number on each dice, having better Skill than one’s opponent now gives a
bonus D6. There were various reasons behind this change, with the foremost being that we
wanted Skill to almost always be relevant in the outcome of an Attack. In the LRB the skill
rating of a model rarely made a significant difference, was completely irrelevant for the quite
common 1D6 rolls, and made the largest difference when the dice pool was large, which in
HGB indicates an ‘easy’ Attack or Defense; this seems counterintuitive to us. An additional
benefit is that it is quicker to ‘read’ a handful of dice you’ve just rolled and determine the
result, and also easier and more intuitive to predict how successful an Attack will be.
Yup, that's the one. There's some excellent criticisms there, but it doesn't seem clear that their change has the impact they want. By changing to the cinematic Sil roll (highest, +1 for additional sixes) extra dice don't do much for the outcome unless you only have 1D or 2D to begin with. If you already have 4D DEF for instance adding +1D for your skill is basically pointless; you're already extremely likely to roll a 6, and not likely to roll an additional 6. I'm happy to see someone doing houserules, and I hope it works for them, it just seems odd to me.
I was really surprised by their statement that 1D was a common roll. I'm wondering where that came into play, because 1D rolls should have been quite rare.
I've grown fond of the way rolls work in the RPG I'm currently working on, namely Tenra Bansho Zero.
It, as do most of the japanese RPGs, use exclusively d6s with a dice pool system. The way it works is like this:
- Difficulty of a roll is 1+
- You roll as many dice as the attribute related to the roll, which will depend on the situation
- On a roll, a die is a success if the value is equal to or lower than the skill you're rolling for (i.e., if you're rolling, say, Pilot, and your character has Pilot (3), every die with 3 or less is a success).
- On opposed rolls, the side with more successes wins.
Binomial distributions work quite well, although they tend to prioritize number of attempts over probability of success, but honestly, all a dice system does is randomly generate success or failure for an action.
When designing the game, the hard part is not to create a good dice system, it's to figure out what the probability of success should be. Yet many designers focus on the system, and, even worse, don't do the maths and just assume that whatever crazy hypothesis they have about how the parameters interact is true.
mrondeau wrote: When designing the game, the hard part is not to create a good dice system, it's to figure out what the probability of success should be. Yet many designers focus on the system, and, even worse, don't do the maths and just assume that whatever crazy hypothesis they have about how the parameters interact is true.
This is too true, the math is an important part, and does a lot to determine the "feel" of a game.
IceRaptor wrote: I love that black and red color scheme warboss - that looks really great!
Thanks! My original idea of blue, red, and white (not necessarily meant to be Team America; feth yeah! gungho patriotic) ended up looking too similar to the Ultramagnus Transformer, lol.
Albertorius wrote: I've grown fond of the way rolls work in the RPG I'm currently working on, namely Tenra Bansho Zero.
Humorously that's very similar to the house rules I'm working on. I futzed with various dice schemes for a few months, trying to make them fit the probability models I wanted. Finally I decided that I was making the game too much about the dice instead of the experience. So while the outcomes aren't exactly what I want, the simplicity of the system makes up for that. Funny so many folks end up with a binomial distribution....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
warboss wrote: Thanks! My original idea of blue, red, and white (not necessarily meant to be Team America; feth yeah! gungho patriotic) ended up looking too similar to the Ultramagnus Transformer, lol.
I can no longer unsee that model as Ultramagnus. Though to be fair, if you added an eagle, flag and some fireworks it would totally fit Team America!
hey folks, bought the blitz 2 player box the other day.
but seeing as i have 0 knowlage of this universe i dont know how to assemble the models as i dont know what wep is where on the sprues.
i want to make north and south forces in the 2p box as balanced as possible for the purpouse of learning the game, but idk how to.
FrozenDwarf wrote: hey folks, bought the blitz 2 player box the other day.
but seeing as i have 0 knowlage of this universe i dont know how to assemble the models as i dont know what wep is where on the sprues.
i want to make north and south forces in the 2p box as balanced as possible for the purpouse of learning the game, but idk how to.
Does a physical copy of this come with the starter? If not, you might find this free pdf helpful.
As for balance, I can't help too much there unfortunately as I'm a few book revisions out of date myself. I'd definitely recommend not building more than two of any variant of a model as IIRC that's the max you can have in each squad except for the base version (unless they've changed that since).
No, that guide is not included in the box, nor any hint of its existance.
I guess i got an early run box.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The 2-player box is supposed to be "balanced" for immediate play, so if you can make the models match the pictures, you should be fine.
Good question... a quick check of the mostly dead forums got me this thread about Robert being at a different convention last weekend. I guess DP9 didn't go? The only time I don't remember them going to gencon since 1994 when I first met them with HG's debut was the year or two when they went all hollywood and gave up tabletop gaming for tv show production (seriously, not joking). I can't blame Robert if he was looking at paying for the booth and working it solo for the whole weekend with Dave seeming gone after his announcement (last year?). Normally they'd have fans step up and help but most of those that would back in the day (along with most everyone else) don't seem to be posting in the official forums anymore indicating a general lack of interest in the hardcore fanbase. Maybe they all moved over to facebook instead?
Interesting... this year's Gen Con has been kinda weird, all told. I think that, apart from FFG, WotC and a couple others, it seems like the industry is moving on from Gen Con, at least releases wise.
It seems like KS is actually harming them in that regard.
Mmmpi wrote: Like Warboss said, they gave it a pass this year, but are going next year (maybe?) when they have both kickstarters finished.
@Charistoph
Not that they've said on their forums. I haven't visited their actual site for several months.
I heard that they are down to only a very few people, so that may be why they didn't show at GenCon. Of course, if you want to get backers, you have to go where the backers are, and those Cons are a great place to showcase your kickstarters, so...
Albertorius wrote: Interesting... this year's Gen Con has been kinda weird, all told. I think that, apart from FFG, WotC and a couple others, it seems like the industry is moving on from Gen Con, at least releases wise.
It seems like KS is actually harming them in that regard.
I've always viewed it as the Kickstarters are in a way a very advanced and public preorder system mixed in with almost free (5% KS fee) advertising. New stuff still gets promoted at gencon and, more importantly, gets sold there first before those gullible backers get their items shipped. In a way, it's a double dipping for the games manufacturers. Instead of first announcing and offering the game at the convention (the old way), they announce it and collect funds on KS and then sell it first (and keep 97-100% of the MSRP) at the con.
Albertorius wrote: Interesting... this year's Gen Con has been kinda weird, all told. I think that, apart from FFG, WotC and a couple others, it seems like the industry is moving on from Gen Con, at least releases wise.
It seems like KS is actually harming them in that regard.
Very true. It's a great way to piss off your loyal customer base. Start a KS, get you loyal customers to chip in, then release at GenCon before your loyal customers get their KS rewards!
