Would a Destroyer Lord joined to a unit of Wraiths even be able to do a Trust Move? After all, the Trust Move are talking about Jet Pack units, not models, and as he is joined to the Wraiths, is it not a Beasts unit?

 Redemption wrote:
Would a Destroyer Lord joined to a unit of Wraiths even be able to do a Trust Move? After all, the Trust Move are talking about Jet Pack units, not models, and as he is joined to the Wraiths, is it not a Beasts unit?

It's questions like these that makes me want GW to actually read the FAQs we send them.

Also keep in mind that joining a Destroyer Lord to a units of Wraiths makes them lose the benefits from Fleet, even further slowing them down.

Attath Destroyer lord to unit of deathmarks, give him Str7 AP2 flamer and use the Deathmark interception deepstrike rule.

BOOM You've got yourself a new Despairtek.

Even better, an intercepting Despairtek-squad!

can someone link to monolilth stats I missed that? Please say it was minorly buffed at least.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
can someone link to monolilth stats I missed that? Please say it was minorly buffed at least.

Flux arcs are heavy 3 s5 ap4 independent targeting. Which is cool - except the particle whip is still ordnance

 Redemption wrote:
Would a Destroyer Lord joined to a unit of Wraiths even be able to do a Trust Move? After all, the Trust Move are talking about Jet Pack units, not models, and as he is joined to the Wraiths, is it not a Beasts unit?

It's a mixed unit. The destroyer lord can make a thrust move in the assault phase provided he does not break coherency since he is a Jet Pack unit in a mixed unit of a single model Jet Pack unit and multiple model Jump Pack unit .

Just have him start in front before movement and trail at the back at the end of movement (trailing wraiths to keep him in coherency). Move them all together in shooting, Then during assault jet pack leapfrog him back to the front. On average he moves a little bit more combined than wraiths.

I've not seen much discussion on the flying Croissants, did they change much? Is it safe to say they will still be spammed?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
can someone link to monolilth stats I missed that? Please say it was minorly buffed at least.

Flux arcs are heavy 3 s5 ap4 independent targeting. Which is cool - except the particle whip is still ordnance

Thinking about it though, now that flayed ones are pretty amazing is there not a reasonable case to be made for either deep striking or moving it forward 6" disembark flayed ones 6" and a 7" average charge?

19" charge should allow for second turn hassle free charge, I can usually find a target within 25" if I started a Monolith at the front of the line.

I've never used one so I'm a little unfamiliar as to how that teleport trick works.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
can someone link to monolilth stats I missed that? Please say it was minorly buffed at least.

Flux arcs are heavy 3 s5 ap4 independent targeting. Which is cool - except the particle whip is still ordnance

Thinking about it though, now that flayed ones are pretty amazing is there not a reasonable case to be made for either deep striking or moving it forward 6" disembark flayed ones 6" and a 7" average charge?

19" charge should allow for second turn hassle free charge, I can usually find a target within 25" if I started a Monolith at the front of the line.

I've never used one so I'm a little unfamiliar as to how that teleport trick works.

You can get protected Deep Strike for up to 2 monoliths if you use the Obelisk formation. Serious invasion force. Monoliths get a buff if used in this formation.

DaPino wrote:
Attath Destroyer lord to unit of deathmarks, give him Str7 AP2 flamer and use the Deathmark interception deepstrike rule.

BOOM You've got yourself a new Despairtek.

Except, unlike Death and Despair in a Scythe, there's no way to keep them from scattering at all... Bleh.

Requizen wrote:

DaPino wrote:
Attath Destroyer lord to unit of deathmarks, give him Str7 AP2 flamer and use the Deathmark interception deepstrike rule.

BOOM You've got yourself a new Despairtek.

Except, unlike Death and Despair in a Scythe, there's no way to keep them from scattering at all... Bleh.

I've mishapped with Deathmarks a grand total of twice. Generally the worst thing that happens is a few dangerous terrain checks.

col_impact wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Would a Destroyer Lord joined to a unit of Wraiths even be able to do a Trust Move? After all, the Trust Move are talking about Jet Pack units, not models, and as he is joined to the Wraiths, is it not a Beasts unit?

It's a mixed unit. The destroyer lord can make a thrust move in the assault phase provided he does not break coherency since he is a Jet Pack unit in a mixed unit of a single model Jet Pack unit and multiple model Jump Pack unit .

Just have him start in front before movement and trail at the back at the end of movement (trailing wraiths to keep him in coherency). Move them all together in shooting, Then during assault jet pack leapfrog him back to the front. On average he moves a little bit more combined than wraiths.

It's a beast unit, not a jump unit.

Requizen wrote:

DaPino wrote:
Attath Destroyer lord to unit of deathmarks, give him Str7 AP2 flamer and use the Deathmark interception deepstrike rule.

BOOM You've got yourself a new Despairtek.

Except, unlike Death and Despair in a Scythe, there's no way to keep them from scattering at all... Bleh.

How about buying them a Scythe? Yeah it's gotten more expensive but nothing stopts you from doing it.

Destroyer Lords cannot enter a Night Scythe, which is stupid because the old one could even transport Tomb Blades fcs.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
can someone link to monolilth stats I missed that? Please say it was minorly buffed at least.

Flux arcs are heavy 3 s5 ap4 independent targeting. Which is cool - except the particle whip is still ordnance

Thinking about it though, now that flayed ones are pretty amazing is there not a reasonable case to be made for either deep striking or moving it forward 6" disembark flayed ones 6" and a 7" average charge?

19" charge should allow for second turn hassle free charge, I can usually find a target within 25" if I started a Monolith at the front of the line.

I've never used one so I'm a little unfamiliar as to how that teleport trick works.

It can now also regenerate lost hull points through the new Living Metal rule, as it is Heavy. I don't think they can charge when they use the Eternity Gate though, as it's not an assault vehicle and it counts like disembarking a Transport.

Can someone post the literal wording from the Formation for the Judicator the one with the Triarch Stalker and Praetoreans.

Getting mixed bonus abilities on it and what it does, one side says it's only shooting from models in that formation another says it's any shooting. Would like a clarification.

Is anyone else kind of annoyed that we don't get any plastic flayed ones, or even special dice? It makes me sad

Kangodo wrote:
Destroyer Lords cannot enter a Night Scythe, which is stupid because the old one could even transport Tomb Blades fcs.

Does it have a special rule against transporting very bulky?

It's that it doesn't have a rule that overrides that it can transport only Infantry, which all transports have by default.

DaPino wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Destroyer Lords cannot enter a Night Scythe, which is stupid because the old one could even transport Tomb Blades fcs.

Does it have a special rule against transporting very bulky?

I'm fairly certain that the BRB rules for transports disallow Jump and Jet infantry, so unless a specific clause is written to allow it, they cannot enter the Nightscythe.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Also. Bulky and Very Bulky on non infantry is for entering buildings.

DaPino wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Destroyer Lords cannot enter a Night Scythe, which is stupid because the old one could even transport Tomb Blades fcs.

Does it have a special rule against transporting very bulky?

in 7th a transport can only transport infantry unless otherwise stated.

Double Ninja'd

toonkirby wrote:
Is anyone else kind of annoyed that we don't get any plastic flayed ones, or even special dice? It makes me sad

There are still rumors of a new destroyer kit on the horizon. Perhaps we will get a plastic flayed ones box as well. Those both would be at least 3-6 months out, if not more.

Chessex will make custom dice for you. 36 of the larger 16mm dice with a custom engraving on one side would cost around $30 before shipping. That's probably cheaper than what GW would charge.

Flayed Ones are extremely easy to make on your own from Necron Warriors and a bit of GS. I got about 70 of 'em.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Flayed Ones are extremely easy to make on your own from Necron Warriors and a bit of GS. I got about 70 of 'em.

Post a couple pics for guidance and inspiration?

 Anpu-adom wrote:

toonkirby wrote:
Is anyone else kind of annoyed that we don't get any plastic flayed ones, or even special dice? It makes me sad

Chessex will make custom dice for you. 36 of the larger 16mm dice with a custom engraving on one side would cost around $30 before shipping. That's probably cheaper than what GW would charge.

I was so pumped about the Necron release I was willing to pay the ridiculous prices GW asks for their custom dice.

Checked on Chessex

http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm

Pricing:

10-25 dice: $1.00 per side
26-99 dice: $0.75 per side
100-199 dice: $0.60 per side
200-499 dice: $0.50 per side
500-999 dice: $0.42 per side
1000+: please ask for quotes

• These prices are for the 16mm six-sided dice and include the die itself.
• All orders must be accompanied with a credit card.
• Shipping costs are added to all orders with a $5.95 minimum.

Anyone have a decent Necron line art image that would look great on a 16mm die ?

 adamsouza wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

toonkirby wrote:
Is anyone else kind of annoyed that we don't get any plastic flayed ones, or even special dice? It makes me sad

Chessex will make custom dice for you. 36 of the larger 16mm dice with a custom engraving on one side would cost around $30 before shipping. That's probably cheaper than what GW would charge.

I was so pumped about the Necron release I was willing to pay the ridiculous prices GW asks for their custom dice.

Checked on Chessex

http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm

Pricing:

10-25 dice: $1.00 per side
26-99 dice: $0.75 per side
100-199 dice: $0.60 per side
200-499 dice: $0.50 per side
500-999 dice: $0.42 per side
1000+: please ask for quotes

• These prices are for the 16mm six-sided dice and include the die itself.
• All orders must be accompanied with a credit card.
• Shipping costs are added to all orders with a $5.95 minimum.

Anyone have a decent Necron line art image that would look great on a 16mm die ?

Why not just the Ankh of the Triarch?

I've seen screen shots of some example symbols from the new codex. I'd wait and see what that page brings. You could look at the old water transfer sheets as well... I have about a dozen that I don't use. It seems that each Lord and Overlord has their own ... well, cartouche.


NOTE: I just had a double post... possible side effect of this thread going past 100 pages, or some other shenanigans. I didn't comment on it and it was fixed in less than 30 seconds.

Hollismason wrote:
Can someone post the literal wording from the Formation for the Judicator the one with the Triarch Stalker and Praetoreans.

Getting mixed bonus abilities on it and what it does, one side says it's only shooting from models in that formation another says it's any shooting. Would like a clarification.

Hollis,

I don't have the book on me atm but it works like this:

The judicator battalion benefits are for the units in the formation only, but with no range or coherency restrictions between units. The only requirement is that the stalker is able to draw LOS to the target (it could not even be in range technically)

The praetorians do not have to be within any range of the stalker or the target (except within the range of their own weapons to benefit from actually shooting at the target!)

The benefits are re-rolls for to-hit, to wound, and armor pen, but only in the shooting phase

Hello Luke, I asked this some pages ago and you probably read over it.
Could you perhaps help us with the exact wording of the Relic-section?
It is probably on their own page before they are explained.

RAW it is quite important but nobody made pictures of that.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Flayed Ones are extremely easy to make on your own from Necron Warriors and a bit of GS. I got about 70 of 'em.

Post a couple pics for guidance and inspiration?

http://twin-linked-awesome.blogspot.de/2010/02/warrior-to-immortalflayed-ones.html

Pretty good in-depth tutorial.

changemod wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

toonkirby wrote:
Is anyone else kind of annoyed that we don't get any plastic flayed ones, or even special dice? It makes me sad

Chessex will make custom dice for you. 36 of the larger 16mm dice with a custom engraving on one side would cost around $30 before shipping. That's probably cheaper than what GW would charge.

I was so pumped about the Necron release I was willing to pay the ridiculous prices GW asks for their custom dice.

Checked on Chessex

http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm

Pricing:

10-25 dice: $1.00 per side
26-99 dice: $0.75 per side
100-199 dice: $0.60 per side
200-499 dice: $0.50 per side
500-999 dice: $0.42 per side
1000+: please ask for quotes

• These prices are for the 16mm six-sided dice and include the die itself.
• All orders must be accompanied with a credit card.
• Shipping costs are added to all orders with a $5.95 minimum.

Anyone have a decent Necron line art image that would look great on a 16mm die ?

Why not just the Ankh of the Triarch?

I had some custom Chaos dice made a few years ago, and some Tyranid ones for my son, but I heard that a cease and desist was sent to Chessex, and that custom dice using GW IP wasn't possible anymore. Is that true?

 undertow wrote:

changemod wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

toonkirby wrote:
Is anyone else kind of annoyed that we don't get any plastic flayed ones, or even special dice? It makes me sad

Chessex will make custom dice for you. 36 of the larger 16mm dice with a custom engraving on one side would cost around $30 before shipping. That's probably cheaper than what GW would charge.

I was so pumped about the Necron release I was willing to pay the ridiculous prices GW asks for their custom dice.

Checked on Chessex

http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm

Pricing:

10-25 dice: $1.00 per side
26-99 dice: $0.75 per side
100-199 dice: $0.60 per side
200-499 dice: $0.50 per side
500-999 dice: $0.42 per side
1000+: please ask for quotes

• These prices are for the 16mm six-sided dice and include the die itself.
• All orders must be accompanied with a credit card.
• Shipping costs are added to all orders with a $5.95 minimum.

Anyone have a decent Necron line art image that would look great on a 16mm die ?

Why not just the Ankh of the Triarch?

I had some custom Chaos dice made a few years ago, and some Tyranid ones for my son, but I heard that a cease and desist was sent to Chessex, and that custom dice using GW IP wasn't possible anymore. Is that true?

I once burnt a piece of toast that looked like Fateweaver and got a cease and desist, so probably

 Sigvatr wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Flayed Ones are extremely easy to make on your own from Necron Warriors and a bit of GS. I got about 70 of 'em.

Post a couple pics for guidance and inspiration?

http://twin-linked-awesome.blogspot.de/2010/02/warrior-to-immortalflayed-ones.html

Pretty good in-depth tutorial.

Here's a good video that was posted earlier in this thread, using things like Voidblades/bayonets/Sword bits instead of claws. I like how this one turns out (watch the linked painting tutorial too), so I might try this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7lsjuCIQNo

If chessex (or similar) KNOW that an image is from GW they won't make it

If they don't know where it's from (so don't tell them to make me some Necron dice, just give them an image file you;ve made up yourself) they may make it,

especially if it's only a small order (order several 1000 and you may well find they'll do more checking)

 Red Corsair wrote:

I once burnt a piece of toast that looked like Fateweaver and got a cease and desist, so probably

So full of win.

I emailed Chessex this morning, so I will let you all know how it turns out.

Requizen wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Flayed Ones are extremely easy to make on your own from Necron Warriors and a bit of GS. I got about 70 of 'em.

Post a couple pics for guidance and inspiration?

http://twin-linked-awesome.blogspot.de/2010/02/warrior-to-immortalflayed-ones.html

Pretty good in-depth tutorial.

Here's a good video that was posted earlier in this thread, using things like Voidblades/bayonets/Sword bits instead of claws. I like how this one turns out (watch the linked painting tutorial too), so I might try this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7lsjuCIQNo

Already working on this one: I managed to get eight together so far just from spare parts, so a warrior box will finish off the unit.

What I'm loving about this project is the individuality I can give them in terms of pose and equipment. I've even got a flayed overlord and his loyal bodyguard following him even in the throes of madness done.

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Flayed Ones are extremely easy to make on your own from Necron Warriors and a bit of GS. I got about 70 of 'em.

Post a couple pics for guidance and inspiration?

http://twin-linked-awesome.blogspot.de/2010/02/warrior-to-immortalflayed-ones.html

Pretty good in-depth tutorial.

Here's a good video that was posted earlier in this thread, using things like Voidblades/bayonets/Sword bits instead of claws. I like how this one turns out (watch the linked painting tutorial too), so I might try this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7lsjuCIQNo

Already working on this one: I managed to get eight together so far just from spare parts, so a warrior box will finish off the unit.

What I'm loving about this project is the individuality I can give them in terms of pose and equipment. I've even got a flayed overlord and his loyal bodyguard following him even in the throes of madness done.

If I didn't have like 6 Lords/Overlords already, I'd probably do the same. I guess I could always take one of the ones that's unpainted/unfinished and slice him up a bit, throw on some greenstuff, etc. I've never taken an existing model and chopped it apart for parts though.

Requizen wrote:

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Flayed Ones are extremely easy to make on your own from Necron Warriors and a bit of GS. I got about 70 of 'em.

Post a couple pics for guidance and inspiration?

http://twin-linked-awesome.blogspot.de/2010/02/warrior-to-immortalflayed-ones.html

Pretty good in-depth tutorial.

Here's a good video that was posted earlier in this thread, using things like Voidblades/bayonets/Sword bits instead of claws. I like how this one turns out (watch the linked painting tutorial too), so I might try this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7lsjuCIQNo

Already working on this one: I managed to get eight together so far just from spare parts, so a warrior box will finish off the unit.

What I'm loving about this project is the individuality I can give them in terms of pose and equipment. I've even got a flayed overlord and his loyal bodyguard following him even in the throes of madness done.

If I didn't have like 6 Lords/Overlords already, I'd probably do the same. I guess I could always take one of the ones that's unpainted/unfinished and slice him up a bit, throw on some greenstuff, etc. I've never taken an existing model and chopped it apart for parts though.

That's exactly what I did, actually. I'm getting the new Overlord, so I took one of my unpainted generic ones from a Barge kit, tore off his orb arm and replaced it with a whip coil, repositioned his body to lean further forwards, snapped his Warscythe and deliberately repaired it badly, then hacked up his cape to look frayed and finished off by distressing the model with a knife like the Youtube tutorial said to.

For anyone with the book, can I get some confirmation on the destroyer cult and if they must bring a minimum of 3 units of 3 destroyers? I had wanted to bring 3 individual units of upgraded heavy destroyers to meet the minimum requirements but some posts have said you need a minium of 9 regular destroyers first. Thanks!

 buddha wrote:
For anyone with the book, can I get some confirmation on the destroyer cult and if they must bring a minimum of 3 units of 3 destroyers? I had wanted to bring 3 individual units of upgraded heavy destroyers to meet the minimum requirements but some posts have said you need a minium of 9 regular destroyers first. Thanks!

Looking back, I think that each destroyer unit is 1 destroyer minimum. That destroyer could be upgraded to a heavy destroyer (only 1 heavy destroyer per destroyer unit). Heavy Destroyers can obviously have more destroyers. So a destroyer cult formation could look like this:

Destroyer Lord
2x Destroyer and 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer and 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer and 1x Heavy Destroyer
3x Heavy Destroyer

That's a 13 Bodies for something like 400 points for the Formation.

Did anyone else notice that the Destroyer Lord was WS/BS 4/4, when the Overlords are 5/5?

Edited to be correct with the rules in the book.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 buddha wrote:
For anyone with the book, can I get some confirmation on the destroyer cult and if they must bring a minimum of 3 units of 3 destroyers? I had wanted to bring 3 individual units of upgraded heavy destroyers to meet the minimum requirements but some posts have said you need a minium of 9 regular destroyers first. Thanks!

Looking back, I think that each destroyer unit is 1 destroyer minimum. That destroyer could be upgraded to a heavy destroyer (only 1 heavy destroyer per destroyer unit). Heavy Destroyers can obviously have more destroyers. So a destroyer cult formation could look like this:

Destroyer Lord
Heavy Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer
3x Heavy Destroyer

Did anyone else notice that the Destroyer Lord was WS/BS 4/4, when the Overlords are 5/5?

Yeah, we noticed. I think they didn't want WS/BS5 mixed with preferred enemy.

 Nilok wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Would a Destroyer Lord joined to a unit of Wraiths even be able to do a Trust Move? After all, the Trust Move are talking about Jet Pack units, not models, and as he is joined to the Wraiths, is it not a Beasts unit?

It's questions like these that makes me want GW to actually read the FAQs we send them.

well, it wasnt simple but it went as good as possible.

huge game Orks Vs Tau.

my big mek with SAG targets the riptide who was being chicken-$h!t jumping back and forth behind cover.

Rolled a double SIX, then proceeded to roll a direct hit.

Rip tide got sucked into the warp...


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Pricing:

10-25 dice: $1.00 per side
26-99 dice: $0.75 per side
100-199 dice: $0.60 per side
200-499 dice: $0.50 per side
500-999 dice: $0.42 per side
1000+: please ask for quotes

• These prices are for the 16mm six-sided dice and include the die itself.
• All orders must be accompanied with a credit card.
• Shipping costs are added to all orders with a $5.95 minimum

Whoa? $1 per side?

so I i pay for 10 Dice, I'm paying $6 per die and $60 for ten?

My understanding is that it is $1.00 per CUSTOM side. The others would be standard pips. Granted, it's not clear on the website.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
NOTE: I just had a double post... possible side effect of this thread going past 100 pages, or some other shenanigans. I didn't comment on it and it was fixed in less than 30 seconds.

It's just a display bug that happens sometimes when you post. There's no actual double post, and if you edit or delete it, you are just editing the single post you made. Just refresh the page and it's gone.

 buddha wrote:
For anyone with the book, can I get some confirmation on the destroyer cult and if they must bring a minimum of 3 units of 3 destroyers? I had wanted to bring 3 individual units of upgraded heavy destroyers to meet the minimum requirements but some posts have said you need a minium of 9 regular destroyers first. Thanks!

I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

How about Spyders in the Canoptek Harvest. How many can you take?

Exactly one.

Disappointing, but cheap. Thanks!

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Disappointing, but cheap. Thanks!

Spyders from a normal CAD can still be used to feed the Canoptek Formation scarabs.

Yeah, it says "Spyder" for whatever reason.

Requizen wrote:


I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

Decurion keeps getting worse and worse and worse...

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Requizen wrote:


I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

Decurion keeps getting worse and worse and worse...

Why is that worse? I can think of no situations that you would want to run solo Destroyers in the formation unless you wanted to run it just for the Heavies.

Requizen wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Requizen wrote:


I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

Decurion keeps getting worse and worse and worse...

Why is that worse? I can think of no situations that you would want to run solo Destroyers in the formation unless you wanted to run it just for the Heavies.

Bingo.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Requizen wrote:


I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

Decurion keeps getting worse and worse and worse...

That's how formations work. You get the bonuses if you buy the package. Keep in mind you always have normal CAD.

Requizen wrote:
Yeah, it says "Spyder" for whatever reason.

That's what I'm curious about. The actual "Formation Restrictions" box.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Requizen wrote:


I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

Decurion keeps getting worse and worse and worse...

Why is that worse? I can think of no situations that you would want to run solo Destroyers in the formation unless you wanted to run it just for the Heavies.

Bingo.

Well even then I don't find that too surprising. Formations are supposed to make you take some, as I like to call it, "fluff tax" to gain the benefit. Out of those 3 3-Destroyer units, you can turn 1 each into a Heavy. So you pay for 6 "extra" Destroyers, which I think is totally fine since in this situation they can just tank for the Heavy.

Everyone needs to understand: the Decurion is not made to find one power unit and spam it. It's designed to force you to make fluffy armies and giving you benefits if you stick to that design.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Yeah, it says "Spyder" for whatever reason.

That's what I'm curious about. The actual "Formation Restrictions" box.

I'm looking at it now, it says:

1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs

Makes it very clear that it's only a single Spyder.

Requizen wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Requizen wrote:


I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

Decurion keeps getting worse and worse and worse...

Why is that worse? I can think of no situations that you would want to run solo Destroyers in the formation unless you wanted to run it just for the Heavies.

Or you wanted it relatively cheap. Say you have a five Destroyer unit from last edition that's been gathering dust a long time, and now that they're pretty good you'd like to run 3-1-1 along with three heavies and a Destroyer Lord, which is your entire Destroyer collection.

But nope! GW says you need to shell out for four more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:

I'm looking at it now, it says:

1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs

Makes it very clear that it's only a single Spyder.

I know, however my actual question is what does the "Formation Restrictions" box say. Should be on the formation datasheet towards the bottom of the sidebar if the format is standard.

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Requizen wrote:


I have mine now, feel free to ask things!

Destroyers are min 1 per squad, but the Destroyer Cult specifically says that each Destroyer unit must have 3 Destroyers.

Decurion keeps getting worse and worse and worse...

Why is that worse? I can think of no situations that you would want to run solo Destroyers in the formation unless you wanted to run it just for the Heavies.

Or you wanted it relatively cheap. Say you have a five Destroyer unit from last edition that's been gathering dust a long time, and now that they're pretty good you'd like to run 3-1-1 along with three heavies and a Destroyer Lord, which is your entire Destroyer collection.

But nope! GW says you need to shell out for four more.


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Requizen wrote:

I'm looking at it now, it says:

1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs

Makes it very clear that it's only a single Spyder.

I know, however my actual question is what does the "Formation Restrictions" box say. Should be on the formation datasheet towards the bottom of the sidebar if the format is standard.

Here's the actual box:

-----------------------------------------
Formation:
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
----------------------------------------
Restrictions:
None.
----------------------------------------

Since it says "Unit of" for the other two, I don't think there's any argument for taking more than 1 Spyder.

The argument is that a Spyder can add up to 2 other Spyders.
'Canoptek Spyder' does not exist, we have no points for that.
The only legal entry is a 'unit of Canoptek Spyders'

changemod wrote:

Or you wanted it relatively cheap. Say you have a five Destroyer unit from last edition that's been gathering dust a long time, and now that they're pretty good you'd like to run 3-1-1 along with three heavies and a Destroyer Lord, which is your entire Destroyer collection.

But nope! GW says you need to shell out for four more.

You could just play standard CAD, nothing is forcing you to take the formations. Bear in mind that pretty much ALL of the published formations are set up this way, requiring you to buy more models than you would normally run in a game to gain a benefit of some sort. In a sense, that's how they try to balance out these formations (not that they are always successful).

Kangodo wrote:
The argument is that a Spyder can add up to 2 other Spyders.
'Canoptek Spyder' does not exist, we have no points for that.
The only legal entry is a 'unit of Canoptek Spyders'

Basically, yeah.

"Formation Restrictions: None" is the same thing that gives you permission to take Dedicated Transport units in other formations.

Also supplementary evidence: The picture of a Canoptek Harvest in the White Dwarf preview, showing the studio army, has a two Spyder unit.


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 ClassicCarraway wrote:

changemod wrote:

Or you wanted it relatively cheap. Say you have a five Destroyer unit from last edition that's been gathering dust a long time, and now that they're pretty good you'd like to run 3-1-1 along with three heavies and a Destroyer Lord, which is your entire Destroyer collection.

But nope! GW says you need to shell out for four more.

You could just play standard CAD, nothing is forcing you to take the formations. Bear in mind that pretty much ALL of the published formations are set up this way, requiring you to buy more models than you would normally run in a game to gain a benefit of some sort. In a sense, that's how they try to balance out these formations (not that they are always successful).

Yeah, I normally have no problem at all with it, and only have a minor problem with it now:

The Decurion has a marketing tool built in. Want to take Destroyers in your Decurion? You'll need at least ten and parts to convert one to a Lord.

Seems a little more manipulative than normal to do that with the toolkit FOC in the main codex. Little things like "You must buy at least one box of Tomb Blades to play a Decurion at all."

Is a Decurion mandatory? Nah. It's just a bit of a hard sell is all.

Does it actually break a formation if you include more than required?

Bullyboyz is 3 X 5 meganobs.

Does it break to add Trukks? No.

Canoptek formation is
1 unit of wraiths
1 unit of scarabs
1 spyder

Does it break to add a spyder to the unit? Probably not. Seems like you could do it.

The question is whether or not the formation benefits would extend to that extra spyder. Probably not.

Isn't the unit of Spyder issue the same as that one Formation for Haemonculus Covens? The one that says 1 Haemonculus, 1 Talos, and 1 Cronos? Should each one be units themselves then and put all together?

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
Isn't the unit of Spyder issue the same as that one Formation for Haemonculus Covens? The one that says 1 Haemonculus, 1 Talos, and 1 Cronos? Should each one be units themselves then and put all together?

Well minimally the formation says apply these benefits to these units. Even if you had a larger unit of spyder it seems clear that only 1 spyder can be part of the formation and get those benefits.

Kangodo wrote:
The argument is that a Spyder can add up to 2 other Spyders.
'Canoptek Spyder' does not exist, we have no points for that.
The only legal entry is a 'unit of Canoptek Spyders'

Instead of saying '1 unit of 1 Canoptek Spyder' they just used the shorthand of '1 Canoptek Spyder'.

The unit entry in the book is "Canoptek Spyders"
The model statline has the name "Canoptek Spyder" (no -s)
The Formation entry says "Canoptek Spyder" (no -s)

The Formation also says "Unit of Canoptek Wraiths"
The unit entry is "Canoptek Wraiths"
Granted the min size for that is 3 Wraiths now.


Just given that, I would assume that it's only a single Spyder. Here's what I think kills it, though. The Formation's special rule states:

"... The Canoptek Spyder from this formation, and all units from this formation within 12" of the Canoptek Spyder from this Formation..."

It's very clear in this wording that there's only supposed to be a single Spyder. A second or third wouldn't break it, but the intent is very unbending in this case.

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
Isn't the unit of Spyder issue the same as that one Formation for Haemonculus Covens? The one that says 1 Haemonculus, 1 Talos, and 1 Cronos? Should each one be units themselves then and put all together?

Well, that's a somewhat different case in that it forms a brand new unit of three completely different models stapled into a single unit.


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col_impact wrote:

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
Isn't the unit of Spyder issue the same as that one Formation for Haemonculus Covens? The one that says 1 Haemonculus, 1 Talos, and 1 Cronos? Should each one be units themselves then and put all together?

Well minimally the formation says apply these benefits to these units. Even if you had a larger unit of spyder it seems clear that only 1 spyder can be part of the formation and get those benefits.

Which is cool, I'll use an artillery dice from one of my cubes to mark the formation leader Spyder.

I really only care about this as a list building tool: To clear up Fast Attack slots mostly.

changemod wrote:

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
Isn't the unit of Spyder issue the same as that one Formation for Haemonculus Covens? The one that says 1 Haemonculus, 1 Talos, and 1 Cronos? Should each one be units themselves then and put all together?

Well, that's a somewhat different case in that it forms a brand new unit of three completely different models stapled into a single unit.

But the restrictions would be the same though wouldn't it? Basically:

5. Formation Composition: This section shows the number and type of units that make
up the Formation.

6. Formation Restrictions: This section details specific unit sizes, equipment, transport
options and any further restrictions that you may be required to adhere to in order to
include the Formation in your army.

So whenever it says 1 of x, it's 1 unit of x unless there's something else that's preventing it from being so. Like the Spyder vs. Spyders plural thing.

Anyone know what benefits each formations in the decurion give?

So far I've seen that canoptics give RP(or other special rules you won't use) to the units, the decurion give +1 to RP, the annihilation allows you to transfer the quantum shielding to a broken doomsday arc, and the flyer one gives negative leadership.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3870/626667.page#7549324

Only three pages back.

Kangodo wrote:
The argument is that a Spyder can add up to 2 other Spyders.
'Canoptek Spyder' does not exist, we have no points for that.
The only legal entry is a 'unit of Canoptek Spyders'

Have fun explaining that technicality to your opponent. It's clear in that the difference in word choice has intent, and that is to allow for only one spider amongst a unit of wraiths and unit of scarabs. You're stretching. I play Necrons and would never dream of bending the rules like that.

Kangodo wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3870/626667.page#7549324

Only three pages back.

Thank-you exactly what I was looking for must have missed it while I skimmed through the thread(133 pages this is getting beefy)

Haha. no need
It's always convenient to have stuff like that ready for people who want to claim that Edge of Eternity "technically" doesn't do anything special.

As I said, outside of the formation box, the Special Rules section makes it VERY clear that there should only be one Spyder.

The intent is extremely clear, and the formation says one Spyder. How on earth you could possibly twist one into one unit, then into several Spyders is beyond me. Whether or not it has a FoC organisation is irrelevant - it says one Spyder and there is a unit profile for one Spyder. If there was a formation giving you one immortal, you would get a single immortal, not 5 because that's the minimum unit size you could normally take. RAW it's clear and RAI it's clear - this will fly nowhere. You get one singular Spyder - that's why it's not a unit, it's just one Spyder. I really don't know how it could be clearer.

I'm also very happy that the Decurion is rewarding fluff too. It's how the game should always have been structured IMO - either let people take whatever, or let them play fluffy armies with huge buffs. I suspect the most competitive build will not use the Decurion, but the fact I can make a very good fluffy army is more than enough for me.

Is there a leak on the spyder entry yet?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there a leak on the spyder entry yet?

I have the codex, what do you want to know?

The exact wording on Relics and the permission to take them

Kangodo wrote:
The argument is that a Spyder can add up to 2 other Spyders.
'Canoptek Spyder' does not exist, we have no points for that.
The only legal entry is a 'unit of Canoptek Spyders'

Then I guess RAW you can have no Spyders since it specifies "Canoptek Spyder" and said unit does not exist.

Kangodo wrote:
The exact wording on Relics and the permission to take them

OH RIGHT I WANTED TO KNOW THAT TOO

book book book

"Artefacts of the Aeons are items of terrifying power, and each is older than many of the lesser races themselves. Only one of each of the following relics may be chosen per army."

Nothing here preventing Mephrit from taking them. Rejoice!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there a leak on the spyder entry yet?

Spider is the same stats and cost as before, but all of their upgrades are cheaper.
Claws are 5 points
Gloom Prism is 10 point ( I think) and gives Iron Will in a bubble that is twice as big. So that means denying on a 5+ now rather than a 4+, but still... pretty good.
Twin-linked Particle Beamer is now only 10 points, rather than 25. This is a huge buff, and I'll always be giving them a gun now.
All selections are still single options... no double particle Beamers... though that would be fun.

I don't think the Adamantium Will is necessarily worth it. Yeah, it's one of the few anti-Psyker things we have, but honestly Witchfires and Maledictions aren't as scary as Blessings or Summonings. I mean, if you have 10 points sitting around for it, but I don't see it as a must-buy.

Requizen wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
The exact wording on Relics and the permission to take them

OH RIGHT I WANTED TO KNOW THAT TOO

book book book

"Artefacts of the Aeons are items of terrifying power, and each is older than many of the lesser races themselves. Only one of each of the following relics may be chosen per army."

Nothing here preventing Mephrit from taking them. Rejoice!

That is nice, but it's sad that we can have only a single Relic.
So it's either the 2+ OR the Voidreaver, while you would want to give both to the same.
Same goes for the Flamer and Teleport.

Requizen wrote:
I don't think the Adamantium Will is necessarily worth it. Yeah, it's one of the few anti-Psyker things we have, but honestly Witchfires and Maledictions aren't as scary as Blessings or Summonings. I mean, if you have 10 points sitting around for it, but I don't see it as a must-buy.

Weight against probability of psychic shriek, I guess.

Kangodo wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
The exact wording on Relics and the permission to take them

OH RIGHT I WANTED TO KNOW THAT TOO

book book book

"Artefacts of the Aeons are items of terrifying power, and each is older than many of the lesser races themselves. Only one of each of the following relics may be chosen per army."

Nothing here preventing Mephrit from taking them. Rejoice!

That is nice, but it's sad that we can have only a single Relic.
So it's either the 2+ OR the Voidreaver, while you would want to give both to the same.
Same goes for the Flamer and Teleport.

Not how I read it. Says once per army, not one relic per character.

Eyjio wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
The exact wording on Relics and the permission to take them

OH RIGHT I WANTED TO KNOW THAT TOO

book book book

"Artefacts of the Aeons are items of terrifying power, and each is older than many of the lesser races themselves. Only one of each of the following relics may be chosen per army."

Nothing here preventing Mephrit from taking them. Rejoice!

That is nice, but it's sad that we can have only a single Relic.
So it's either the 2+ OR the Voidreaver, while you would want to give both to the same.
Same goes for the Flamer and Teleport.

Not how I read it. Says once per army, not one relic per character.

From the Wargear Selection List:

Artifacts of the Aeons
A Model may take one of the following:

Would you be willing to just verbatim type the entry because that would be awesome.

Hollismason wrote:
Would you be willing to just verbatim type the entry because that would be awesome.

Which entry?

The relic entry if you wouldn't mind, not that it makes to much of a difference getting me book tommorow.

Eh... the list has already been passed around and I'm pretty sure that while you can post unit costs, upgrade points is a bit of a no-no. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

No I meant the rule before it, not hte relics I know what the relics are.

What I posted on last page: "A model may take one of the following". In the Artefacts of the Aeons section, it says "Only one can be taken per army".

I like the replacement of illustrations and not just pics of painted models. Nice looking Dex and lay out.

Requizen wrote:
What I posted on last page: "A model may take one of the following". In the Artefacts of the Aeons section, it says "Only one can be taken per army".

Ahh, okay. I've ordered the iPad version, so it'll be interesting to see what's been programmed into the force requisition thing - it's usually pretty good for settling artefact and formation stuff.

Chad Warden wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
The argument is that a Spyder can add up to 2 other Spyders.
'Canoptek Spyder' does not exist, we have no points for that.
The only legal entry is a 'unit of Canoptek Spyders'

Then I guess RAW you can have no Spyders since it specifies "Canoptek Spyder" and said unit does not exist.

Exalted.

Stunning what people can attempt to rationalize.

Just catching up on this thread so sorry about a bit of subject necromancy...

Talking

On Kickstarter there were two custom dice campaigns in 2014. I backed one in November and they are making mine for a copyrighted game I own that is awesome in all ways except to keep the cost down they used sticker dice. I look forward to receiving the upgrade!

You can go to Kickstarter and type in custom dice. You will find the last two project creators and you can ask them if they plan another KS or if they regularly make custom dice outside the campaigns. Or just lurk for the next one...

Just ran some mathhammer. Assuming that they still have their shield, It would take an expected 2 units of 7 cover-ignoring, gauss tombblades shooting at rapid fire range to take down a wave serpent a turn.
They are still super durable, but I expect them to need to take the going to keep their shields at home rather than risk shooting them off.

Requizen wrote:
What I posted on last page: "A model may take one of the following". In the Artefacts of the Aeons section, it says "Only one can be taken per army".

One of EACH, not one total.

Big distinction that, as the way you just wrote it makes it sound as though you can only take a single artifact for your entire army...

davethepak wrote:

Chad Warden wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
The argument is that a Spyder can add up to 2 other Spyders.
'Canoptek Spyder' does not exist, we have no points for that.
The only legal entry is a 'unit of Canoptek Spyders'

Then I guess RAW you can have no Spyders since it specifies "Canoptek Spyder" and said unit does not exist.

Exalted.

Stunning what people can attempt to rationalize.

BRAVO!

Without wanting to get too far into the rules debate here, I'm not seeing what's so "rationalization"-ey about reading the english conjugation of a singular noun to mean, well, singular.

The book is out now - time to celebrate!

And time, sadly, to close up shop here!