PIUS_2 wrote: I'm pretty sure that Canoptek's don't have RP.
The Canoptek Formation gives them the option to have Reanimation Protocols as long as their within range 12" ( this may be 6 I cannot find the formation rules) of the Tomb Spyder.
Akumatsu wrote: The White Dwarf Issue #52 shows a picture on pg 19 of the Canoptek Harvest and it shows two Spyders, three Wriaths and six Scarabs.
And the one in the codex, which is the official one, says 1 Canoptek Spyder, 1 unit of Wraiths and 1 unit of scarabs. When was the last time a white dwarf overrode a codex?
If you've seen the formation restrictions rather than a decurion flow chart, feel free to present actual evidence.
Otherwise I'll go with the more conservative option until I see it for myself.
That's fair I suppose. No I haven't seen anything about formation restrictions but if you notice under Judicator Battalion it says 1 unit of Triarch Stalkers which start as one model as well, just like spyders. With the stalkers it is allowing a unit, but with the spyders only mentions one. Of course this could just be another GW editing flub, so I'll concede. I would love to be able to take a full group of spyders in the formation though, if that is in fact allowed.
I don't really see them turning down the ability to sell multiple Spyders to Decurion players, and formation restrictions tend to be on the lax side in general.
If it wasn't for the picture of a Canoptek Harvest having two and people who seem to have seen more than me suggesting multiples, I'd err on the side of that odd wording. As is, it's 3 bits of circumstantial evidence to 1 as of now.
BlaxicanX wrote: It takes ~60 shots from a Dakka flyrant to wipe out a single unit of wraiths. That doesn't strike me as very efficient at all, especially considering that you can get 3 units of them for less than 800 points, or take a formation and grant them a 4+ RP on top of that for the first couple of turns.
If only nids had a way to field 5 of them....Oh wait
Hollismason wrote: Other than the picture of the Decurion Detachment that says 1 Tomb Spyder
Which contradicts the multiple people who've seen the page claiming the oposite, and the White Dwarf picture showing two spyders in the formation.
Well their wrong the picture I saw was of the book and it says 1 Tomb Spyder.
If you've seen the formation restrictions rather than a decurion flow chart, feel free to present actual evidence.
Otherwise I'll go with the more conservative option until I see it for myself.
That's a fair point. I'll be going to my FLGS tomorrow (so roughly 20 hours from now for those interested) to get a sneak peak at the book so I will be able to confirm the details.
That being said, a quick google search seems to overwhelmingly favor just 1 Spyder. Like 10/10 on the first 10 results I found, all of which were working the last couple days. I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption at this point
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Hollismason wrote: I think the odds favour the unit of Wraiths with the T5 2W and 3++ , 4++.
Have to see actual odds.
5 Flyrants so that's what 60 ST6 Twin Linked Shots.
I think it'd be better to shoot at the Tomb Spyder. It's T7 and got the 3+ , 4+ and 3 wounds.
Totally is better to shoot at the Spyder. I think it's only T6 also. However, every shot you need to get past the 3+/4++ (so effectively a 2+ save, which means 24 wounds caused, or 48 hits, just to stop the wraiths from getting their RP. Not a bad first turn strategy, and it has a decent chance of getting first blood, which then allows you to average 2.2 wraith wounds/Flyrant, as opposed to the 1.1 you would be averaging with RP.
Dark Harvest list itself just became confusing, having stats for outdated versions of units with minor upgrades but with references to new codex rules. Probably best to either ignore completely, or ally in the unchanged Warriors or Immortals just to get access to Kutlakh and Toholk, who remain pretty neat special characters.
Acanthrites got a mild buff: They can now glance high AV more easily in combat with their Voidblades. Also good is that they're deep striking Melta models.
Tomb Stalkers and Tomb Sentinels are largely the same. Tomb Sentinel is now the only "Test or be removed from play" model avaliable.
Tesseract Ark took a nerf from wording of Quantum Shielding, but is still very solid. AV 12 all round vehicle with 4HP and an invulnerable after all. Oh, and it's heavy so gets the mini IWND effect.
Sentry Pylons: Focussed Death Ray is more unique now. Heat Ray still fires Melta blasts. Gauss Exterminator questionably useful against flyer and skimmer heavy lists, I guess? Skyfire on a two shot Lascanon for that price is still awful.
Night Shroud: A bit on the pricey side to be sure, but it's an AV 12 all round night scythe with S10 large blast pinning and blinding bombs, so it kinda deserves to be. Our Storm Raven with transport swapped out for more death.
Dark Harvest will have the same issues that the DKoK Assault Brigade from the same book has, FW hasn't seemed particularly eager to update anything yet since the AM book came out for that or the other IG units/list in IA1. I'd expect they'll be in an awkward situation for some time.
Dark Harvest list itself just became confusing, having stats for outdated versions of units with minor upgrades but with references to new codex rules. Probably best to either ignore completely, or ally in the unchanged Warriors or Immortals just to get access to Kutlakh and Toholk, who remain pretty neat special characters.
Acanthrites got a mild buff: They can now glance high AV more easily in combat with their Voidblades. Also good is that they're deep striking Melta models.
Tomb Stalkers and Tomb Sentinels are largely the same. Tomb Sentinel is now the only "Test or be removed from play" model avaliable.
Tesseract Ark took a nerf from wording of Quantum Shielding, but is still very solid. AV 12 all round vehicle with 4HP and an invulnerable after all. Oh, and it's heavy so gets the mini IWND effect.
Sentry Pylons: Focussed Death Ray is more unique now. Heat Ray still fires Melta blasts. Gauss Exterminator questionably useful against flyer and skimmer heavy lists, I guess? Skyfire on a two shot Lascanon for that price is still awful.
Night Shroud: A bit on the pricey side to be sure, but it's an AV 12 all round night scythe with S10 large blast pinning and blinding bombs, so it kinda deserves to be. Our Storm Raven with transport swapped out for more death.
In what way did Quantum Shielding change? As for the Tomb Sentinel, my friend and I discussed it and we're going to houserule it that the small blast it fires is S4 AP2 with the Exile Ray rule as per the beamer. That house rule is the only way it's worth taking.
Looking over Kutlakh, he's actually pretty massively buffed. Phaeron is explained in his profile, so he's still relentless. He has a 2+ in his profile, and he has a Phase Shifter and Phylactery.
In what way did Quantum Shielding change? As for the Tomb Sentinel, my friend and I discussed it and we're going to houserule it that the small blast it fires is S4 AP2 with the Exile Ray rule as per the beamer. That house rule is the only way it's worth taking.
Looking over Kutlakh, he's actually pretty massively buffed. Phaeron is explained in his profile, so he's still relentless. He has a 2+ in his profile, and he has a Phase Shifter and Phylactery.
In what way did Quantum Shielding change? As for the Tomb Sentinel, my friend and I discussed it and we're going to houserule it that the small blast it fires is S4 AP2 with the Exile Ray rule as per the beamer. That house rule is the only way it's worth taking.
As opposed to what?
SX AP- Exile Blast.
Small blast that causes a strength test or removal from play, and auto-pens vehicles.
Looking over Kutlakh, he's actually pretty massively buffed. Phaeron is explained in his profile, so he's still relentless. He has a 2+ in his profile, and he has a Phase Shifter and Phylactery.
Don't forget a weapon that can instakill.
Well, I was discussing buffs otherwise the list would be longer, but yep.
Fear and Fearless to unit, for example. And in a challenge reducing enemy WS if he wins a roll off.
jesus, just read the Obelisk rules, you can choose to deploy it powered up or powered down, up means it acts normally, down means it can't move or shoot but gets a 3+ invul save, and you can choose to power it up at the start of any of your movement phases.
Which means that, unless deep striking it, it's always going to be deployed powered down to get that 3+ invul save and powered up at the start of the first Necron movement phase, on an AV14-all-round 6 HP unit with twenty S7 tesla shots a turn for the price of two barebones Leman Russ tanks.
Super glad they made that a Lord of War and not a Heavy Support unit...
Honestly, you are going to see the Decurion in competitive lists most of the time anyway, and it's got it's own formation there "The Living Tomb".
In what way did Quantum Shielding change? As for the Tomb Sentinel, my friend and I discussed it and we're going to houserule it that the small blast it fires is S4 AP2 with the Exile Ray rule as per the beamer. That house rule is the only way it's worth taking.
As opposed to what?
SX AP- Exile Blast.
Small blast that causes a strength test or removal from play, and auto-pens vehicles.
Nyghoma wrote: Can dark Harvest get the new codex artifacts? And will tournaments still allow the old FDR?
Asking what Artifacts Dark Harvest can get is opening the same can of snakes as trying to use one of their outdated modified units such as Charnel Lychguard or Charnel Scarabs. I'd strongly advocate keeping it simple just taking a warrior or immortal squad to ally in one of the two unique characters, who are the only fully unique units from IA:12 you can't just take as "Counts as a choice from Codex:Necrons".
You can ape the flavour of a Dark Harvest army quite well with the new codex so long as you have one of their dynasty leaders present on the field anyhow.
Charnel Lychguard were only 5pts more expensive than 5th edition codex Lychguard. Knowing that it's easy to just add 5pts to the cost of 7th edition Lychguard. Apply the same rules to Charnel Scarabs vs 7th edition Scarabs and change their unit size and save or leave them alone as they're unique enough. Focussed Death Ray is unique enough to be left alone I think.
MoonlightSonata wrote: Charnel Lychguard were only 5pts more expensive than 5th edition codex Lychguard. Knowing that it's easy to just add 5pts to the cost of 7th edition Lychguard. Apply the same rules to Charnel Scarabs vs 7th edition Scarabs and change their unit size and save or leave them alone as they're unique enough.
Yep, very easy to house rule these things.
Charnel Scarabs are +5 points, +1 WS, replace Entropic Strike with Shred and Rend. Charnel Lychguard are +5 points, gain rage, gain option to but Flensing Scarabs wargear.
But that's explicitly house ruling rather than RAW, so not very useful for play outside of rings of friends willing to standardise tweaks to the rules.
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Hollismason wrote: What are the rules for Illuminor Szeras , did he get some nifty new rules at all, like I don't know maybe having a different movement type.
Szeras is roughly as before, with the change that he has an improved version of the standard Cryptek ability to buff Reanimation. Applies to all units within 6 inches.
Both Cryptek Special Characters are looking very good.
BlaxicanX wrote: It takes ~60 shots from a Dakka flyrant to wipe out a single unit of wraiths. That doesn't strike me as very efficient at all, especially considering that you can get 3 units of them for less than 800 points, or take a formation and grant them a 4+ RP on top of that for the first couple of turns.
If only nids had a way to field 5 of them....Oh wait
Thats no wraiths in 3 turns.
You want to spend three turns shooting over 1000 points of your army into 240 of mine, be my guest.
For the Canoptek Formation, when it says that the unit must be within 12 inches of the Spyder, does that mean the entire unit or could it apply to only the models within the bubble?
DeGarmo wrote: For the Canoptek Formation, when it says that the unit must be within 12 inches of the Spyder, does that mean the entire unit or could it apply to only the models within the bubble?
Keyword being Unit here. It would specify models, if it was only affecting models within 12'.
DeGarmo wrote: For the Canoptek Formation, when it says that the unit must be within 12 inches of the Spyder, does that mean the entire unit or could it apply to only the models within the bubble?
Keyword being Unit here. It would specify models, if it was only affecting models within 12'.
That's what I thought it would be. I'm still pretty new to the game and trying to figure it out. Thanks.
DeGarmo wrote: For the Canoptek Formation, when it says that the unit must be within 12 inches of the Spyder, does that mean the entire unit or could it apply to only the models within the bubble?
Keyword being Unit here. It would specify models, if it was only affecting models within 12'.
That's what I thought it would be. I'm still pretty new to the game and trying to figure it out. Thanks.
No problem. It's really easy to get Terminology mixed up, and the difference between "Unit" and "Models" in a lot of cases for bubbles is massive.
astro_nomicon wrote: Anyone have a link to pics of the special rules that Formations in the Decurion Detachment get?
Let me see if I can remember, Mind Palace gooooooooo
Firstly, all of them get Relentless and Move Through Cover
Destroyer Cult: Models in this formation re-roll failed to-wound and armour penetration rolls
Star God: Nothing extra
Flayed Ones: Nothing extra
Judicator Battalion: Pick an enemy unit within 12" of the Stalker, all units in the formation re-roll failed to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rolls against that enemy unit.
Canoptek Harvest: Every turn (start of the movement I believe) pick either Shred, Reanimation Protocols, or Fleet. The Spyder and units from this formation within 12" of the Spyder get the rule.
Deathmarks: Nothing extra
Annihilation Nexus: If the Doomsday Ark in this formation loses its Quantum Shielding, you can choose for one of the Barges in the formation to essentially give its Quantum Shielding to the Ark, losing the Shielding for itself.
Living Tomb: Obelisk automatically deep strikes on turn 2. Any monoliths in this formation that deep strike within 12" of the Obelisk do not scatter, and can immediately bring a unit of Infantry or Jump Infantry through the Eternity Gate
Deathbringer Flight: If a doom scythe in this formation fires its death ray, it gets +2 BS for each other doom scythe that fired at the enemy this turn. Also, all enemy units within 12" of at least 2 doom scythes in this formation have -1 Ld.
Remember a few days ago when it looked like this was going to be a balanced dex with a power level similar to that of BA, and when the Decurion Detachment looked fun but not really that good? Those were good days.
It's like Codex: Eldar all over again, except with next to no suck.
Hollismason wrote: Ugh the hardest choice in the world is picking which army to play there's to many choices
I'm seriously torn right now. I want to run out my Destroyer Cult, and I think they'll be first. But Wraithwing is strong (even stronger now? Canoptek formation is good). Footslog Silver Tide is so good now too, with so much variety of adding in things like Lychguard and Praetorians on top of the Warriors/Immortals.
AV13 vehicle spam is just as good as it was before. Barges are more expensive, but everything else is cheaper so if you were full vehicles it's about the same, except the Warrior tax for Ghost Arks. Every vehicle other than ABarges are better (except Monolith, which is the same).
I have a pretty biggish Necron collection, I'm going to be trying so many different lists in the forseeable future.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Remember a few days ago when it looked like this was going to be a balanced dex with a power level similar to that of BA, and when the Decurion Detachment looked fun but not really that good? Those were good days.
It's like Codex: Eldar all over again, except with next to no suck.
At least our gauss flayers don't rend. But that Wraith unit certain has an air of wave serpent to it.
shall we then thank GW for a balanced (internally at least) Codex?
or shall we complain for what seems to be a OP Codex?
I lean towards the first, as I think it will be difficult to cumulate too many formations and their own special bonuses in 1500-2000pts games
I also lean towards the first because the options are numerous: in terms of detachments/formations, in terms of units, equipments/relics ... so no 2 Necron armies will be the same, and that, from my point of view, is good for the game
what do you guys think?
EDIT: we should at least congratulate GW for finding a clever/good way to sell more Necron models ...
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Remember a few days ago when it looked like this was going to be a balanced dex with a power level similar to that of BA, and when the Decurion Detachment looked fun but not really that good? Those were good days.
It's like Codex: Eldar all over again, except with next to no suck.
Yes, yes I do.
I Don't want another codex all the power gamers are jumping on and everyone complains (legitimately) about.
I shelved my crons with the last dex for a months, as to not be "oh look, another necron player".
All the did was shift the OP around to sell models that did not sell the last time.
I might just run normal cad, and ignore all the formations, as its their bonus really that put it over the top.
That should still give me some diverse lists that are good - which I have to say, at least this codex has a LOT better internal balance unit wise.
Except against my buddy who still insists his grav-star and knight titan are not broken. he, he will get wraiths....lots and lots of wraiths.
The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
Requizen wrote: The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
Fair enough. Its basically +1 RP, relentless and move through cover to give up objective secured.
Some of the formations are a bit over the top (spyder) - but a smart player will shoot the spider.
Judicator Battalion: Pick an enemy unit within 12" of the Stalker, all units in the formation re-roll failed to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rolls against that enemy unit.
I could be wrong, but I thought this just had to be withing LOS of the Stalker?
astro_nomicon wrote: Anyone have a link to pics of the special rules that Formations in the Decurion Detachment get?
Let me see if I can remember, Mind Palace gooooooooo
Firstly, all of them get Relentless and Move Through Cover
Destroyer Cult: Models in this formation re-roll failed to-wound and armour penetration rolls
Star God: Nothing extra
Flayed Ones: Nothing extra
Judicator Battalion: Pick an enemy unit within 12" of the Stalker, all units in the formation re-roll failed to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rolls against that enemy unit.
Canoptek Harvest: Every turn (start of the movement I believe) pick either Shred, Reanimation Protocols, or Fleet. The Spyder and units from this formation within 12" of the Spyder get the rule.
Deathmarks: Nothing extra
Annihilation Nexus: If the Doomsday Ark in this formation loses its Quantum Shielding, you can choose for one of the Barges in the formation to essentially give its Quantum Shielding to the Ark, losing the Shielding for itself.
Living Tomb: Obelisk automatically deep strikes on turn 2. Any monoliths in this formation that deep strike within 12" of the Obelisk do not scatter, and can immediately bring a unit of Infantry or Jump Infantry through the Eternity Gate
Deathbringer Flight: If a doom scythe in this formation fires its death ray, it gets +2 BS for each other doom scythe that fired at the enemy this turn. Also, all enemy units within 12" of at least 2 doom scythes in this formation have -1 Ld.
There, I think that's right.
Thanks! Man, so many options for you Necron players now. I know everyone is freaking out about the Canoptek Harvest right now, but the Judicator battalion sounds sweet too.
And as for the Canoptek Harvest = New Wave Serpent comments, well its good but it also has a 368-388 pt price tag (depending if you want the Spyders to be useful or not). It just doesn't seem as spammable as most people are making it out to be. You can bring 3 max at 1850. While that is scary, the rest of the list is not all that flimsy, but not really killy either. I think two of those formations is the most you can bring in a list that retains anything resembling balance.
Requizen wrote: The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
From what I can tell they're only available through the Decurion, though. You can't just take the Judicator Battalion, for example, and add it to any army as a Formation. It needs to be part of the Decurion.
Requizen wrote: The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
Judicator Battalion: Pick an enemy unit within 12" of the Stalker, all units in the formation re-roll failed to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rolls against that enemy unit.
I could be wrong, but I thought this just had to be withing LOS of the Stalker?
So far I've only seen LOS as well. If it's only 12", that's very restrictive and would make the formation much less appealing.
Thud wrote:
Requizen wrote: The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
From what I can tell they're only available through the Decurion, though. You can't just take the Judicator Battalion, for example, and add it to any army as a Formation. It needs to be part of the Decurion.
"If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment."
Requizen wrote: The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
From what I can tell they're only available through the Decurion, though. You can't just take the Judicator Battalion, for example, and add it to any army as a Formation. It needs to be part of the Decurion.
"If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment."
Emphasis mine.
Cool. I missed that. Looks like my tournament Tau army is getting an Obelisk.
Good lord. I can't even wrap my brain around all of the shenanigans. Especially this part
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.
Does that mean that you basically unlock a CAD as soon as you begin a Decurion Detachment via the units required by a Reclamation Legion?
Much Detachment.
Many Formation.
So Combination.
Woooow.
Good lord. I can't even wrap my brain around all of the shenanigans. Especially this part
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.
Does that mean that you basically unlock a CAD as soon as you begin a Decurion Detachment via the units required by a Reclamation Legion?
Much Detachment.
Many Formation.
So Combination.
Woooow.
The Decurion is the Detachment, it isn't a CAD. It's just a Detachment that happens to be made up of Formations.
astro_nomicon wrote: Anyone have a link to pics of the special rules that Formations in the Decurion Detachment get?
Let me see if I can remember, Mind Palace gooooooooo
Firstly, all of them get Relentless and Move Through Cover
Destroyer Cult: Models in this formation re-roll failed to-wound and armour penetration rolls
Star God: Nothing extra
Flayed Ones: Nothing extra
Judicator Battalion: Pick an enemy unit within 12" of the Stalker, all units in the formation re-roll failed to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rolls against that enemy unit.
Canoptek Harvest: Every turn (start of the movement I believe) pick either Shred, Reanimation Protocols, or Fleet. The Spyder and units from this formation within 12" of the Spyder get the rule.
Deathmarks: Nothing extra
Annihilation Nexus: If the Doomsday Ark in this formation loses its Quantum Shielding, you can choose for one of the Barges in the formation to essentially give its Quantum Shielding to the Ark, losing the Shielding for itself.
Living Tomb: Obelisk automatically deep strikes on turn 2. Any monoliths in this formation that deep strike within 12" of the Obelisk do not scatter, and can immediately bring a unit of Infantry or Jump Infantry through the Eternity Gate
Deathbringer Flight: If a doom scythe in this formation fires its death ray, it gets +2 BS for each other doom scythe that fired at the enemy this turn. Also, all enemy units within 12" of at least 2 doom scythes in this formation have -1 Ld.
There, I think that's right.
Thx man.
Can you tell us what items are listed under the ranged weapons, the melee weapons and technoarcana with points?
We would like to know if an Overlord/lord/Destroyer lord can arm himself with a Dispersion Shield?
Does a Warscythe replace the models staff of light?
nflagey wrote: shall we then thank GW for a balanced (internally at least) Codex?
or shall we complain for what seems to be a OP Codex?
I lean towards the first, as I think it will be difficult to cumulate too many formations and their own special bonuses in 1500-2000pts games
I also lean towards the first because the options are numerous: in terms of detachments/formations, in terms of units, equipments/relics ... so no 2 Necron armies will be the same, and that, from my point of view, is good for the game
what do you guys think?
EDIT: we should at least congratulate GW for finding a clever/good way to sell more Necron models ...
I think people need to pay more attention to the "tax" for taking the "OP" combo's that they are currently having a look at. When you compare old wraith's + destroyer lord in points to the wraith's in the decurion formation (which gives them the 4/5+++) the points are similar (including the spyder and scarabs). At this stage I am not sure if that means the old set up is better or the new one. Consider scarabs went up in points and you can only take 1 x Spyder etc.. Id possibly prefer having old wraith's + destroyer lord.
The wraith's got better by themselves, but functionally (look at JY2's battle reports) not having that destroyer lord tanking with his 2+ is something to consider. Wraith's seem to struggle a bit with tougher armour as well, sure you have rending but sometimes those 6's just dont come up.
nflagey wrote: shall we then thank GW for a balanced (internally at least) Codex?
or shall we complain for what seems to be a OP Codex?
I lean towards the first, as I think it will be difficult to cumulate too many formations and their own special bonuses in 1500-2000pts games
I also lean towards the first because the options are numerous: in terms of detachments/formations, in terms of units, equipments/relics ... so no 2 Necron armies will be the same, and that, from my point of view, is good for the game
what do you guys think?
EDIT: we should at least congratulate GW for finding a clever/good way to sell more Necron models ...
I think people need to pay more attention to the "tax" for taking the "OP" combo's that they are currently having a look at. When you compare old wraith's + destroyer lord in points to the wraith's in the decurion formation (which gives them the 4/5+++) the points are similar (including the spyder and scarabs). At this stage I am not sure if that means the old set up is better or the new one. Consider scarabs went up in points and you can only take 1 x Spyder etc.. Id possibly prefer having old wraith's + destroyer lord.
The wraith's got better by themselves, but functionally (look at JY2's battle reports) not having that destroyer lord tanking with his 2+ is something to consider. Wraith's seem to struggle a bit with tougher armour as well, sure you have rending but sometimes those 6's just dont come up.
The T boost more than makes up for the loss of the Destroyer Lord's 2+ save. They are now a lot more resilient to Volume of fire, which was causing issues before. The Tax isn't really that bad either, considering the Spyder is still an excellent MC and while Scarabs kind of suck now, they can be used to tarpit, or glance a few vehicles.
Yeah, not having the Destroyer Lord in the Wraiths sucks, but mine is looking for forward to walking with the Lychguard.
Quick question, regarding Nemesor of course. His ability relies on picking Warlord Traits so does he have to be the Warlord in order to really use them? If not, that's like having two Warlords.
Sasori wrote: The T boost more than makes up for the loss of the Destroyer Lord's 2+ save. They are now a lot more resilient to Volume of fire, which was causing issues before. The Tax isn't really that bad either, considering the Spyder is still an excellent MC and while Scarabs kind of suck now, they can be used to tarpit, or glance a few vehicles.
Apologise if my maths is wrong!!
20 bolter shots with a tanking lord cause:
13.33 hits
6.66 wounds
1.11 un saved wounds
20 bolter shots with T5 wraiths:
13.33 hits
4.44 wounds
1.48 un saved wounds
No doubt it's good, I just don't think it's game breaking. Wraith wing also relied allot on the cheap crap ton of tesla fire from the AB and the NS, which just won't be there if you take a decurion.
Taking the wraith's without the decurion IMO would be better but you are still not going to see as much tesla fire now. You need 10 warriors for a NS now instead of 5, NS has increased in points and the AB's have increased in points.
The biggest problem with the formation is that you seem (at this stage) to be only allowed to take 1 x Spyder, which is of course never going to see turn 2 if your opponent has anything to say about it!
Sasori wrote: The T boost more than makes up for the loss of the Destroyer Lord's 2+ save. They are now a lot more resilient to Volume of fire, which was causing issues before. The Tax isn't really that bad either, considering the Spyder is still an excellent MC and while Scarabs kind of suck now, they can be used to tarpit, or glance a few vehicles.
Apologise if my maths is wrong!!
20 bolter shots with a tanking lord cause:
13.33 hits
6.66 wounds
1.11 un saved wounds
20 bolter shots with T5 wraiths:
13.33 hits
4.44 wounds
2.22 un saved wounds
No doubt it's good, I just don't think it's game breaking. Wraith wing also relied allot on the cheap crap ton of tesla fire from the AB and the NS, which just won't be there if you take a decurion.
Taking the wraith's without the decurion IMO would be better but you are still not going to see as much tesla fire now. You need 10 warriors for a NS now instead of 5, NS has increased in points and the AB's have increased in points.
The biggest problem with the formation is that you seem (at this stage) to be only allowed to take 1 x Spyder, which is of course never going to see turn 2 if your opponent has anything to say about it!
I'm getting 1.4 Unsaved wounds for the new Wraiths.. You know they Kept their 3+ Invul right?
So, the Dlord is slightly better against S4 shooting, however, it gets worse as things go up in strength for the 2+ Save Dlord, compared to the Wraiths.
Lychstar is going to be very interesting to see now... sadly a bit slow, but very durable and killy for their points. Either version of Lychguard are quite powerful at the moment. Scythe ones are a bit squishy, and Sword/Shield ones would struggle to kill tough things like vehicles/2+ units/Knights, but both have their uses.
I used to run a gimmick list where I would put Zahndrekh in a Ghost Ark with some Warriors, move forward 12", and then Ghostwalk Mantle Obyron 12" forward with whatever squad I wanted for fun violence. It's much harder to get Zahndrekh in an Ark now (he'll be alone in it...), but I think we could see similar things in this edition.
Sasori wrote: The T boost more than makes up for the loss of the Destroyer Lord's 2+ save. They are now a lot more resilient to Volume of fire, which was causing issues before. The Tax isn't really that bad either, considering the Spyder is still an excellent MC and while Scarabs kind of suck now, they can be used to tarpit, or glance a few vehicles.
Apologise if my maths is wrong!!
20 bolter shots with a tanking lord cause:
13.33 hits
6.66 wounds
1.11 un saved wounds
20 bolter shots with T5 wraiths:
13.33 hits
4.44 wounds
2.22 un saved wounds
No doubt it's good, I just don't think it's game breaking. Wraith wing also relied allot on the cheap crap ton of tesla fire from the AB and the NS, which just won't be there if you take a decurion.
Taking the wraith's without the decurion IMO would be better but you are still not going to see as much tesla fire now. You need 10 warriors for a NS now instead of 5, NS has increased in points and the AB's have increased in points.
The biggest problem with the formation is that you seem (at this stage) to be only allowed to take 1 x Spyder, which is of course never going to see turn 2 if your opponent has anything to say about it!
I'm getting 1.4 Unsaved wounds for the new Wraiths.. You know they Kept their 3+ Invul right?
So, the Dlord is slightly better against S4 shooting, however, it gets worse as things go up in strength for the 2+ Save Dlord, compared to the Wraiths.
I got 1.4 unsaved wounds too (RP not calced).
The sweet spot that the T4 lasted longer than the T5 (someone did a calc a while back) was S7, when they are both being wounded on 2's but you can rely on the D-Lords save to take more wounds (plasma aside). S8 obviously Insta-gibs the T4 Wraiths.
Judicator Battalion: Pick an enemy unit within 12" of the Stalker, all units in the formation re-roll failed to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rolls against that enemy unit.
I could be wrong, but I thought this just had to be withing LOS of the Stalker?
So far I've only seen LOS as well. If it's only 12", that's very restrictive and would make the formation much less appealing.
Thud wrote:
Requizen wrote: The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
From what I can tell they're only available through the Decurion, though. You can't just take the Judicator Battalion, for example, and add it to any army as a Formation. It needs to be part of the Decurion.
"If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment."
Emphasis mine.
So you realized you can have a destroyer only primary detachement (it says so specifically under the bonus of the destroyer cult?!)! And does this mean I then get +1 to RP too? I think so!
I even thought you will only get the destroyer cult bonus when taken as a primary detachement.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote: Lychstar is going to be very interesting to see now... sadly a bit slow, but very durable and killy for their points. Either version of Lychguard are quite powerful at the moment. Scythe ones are a bit squishy, and Sword/Shield ones would struggle to kill tough things like vehicles/2+ units/Knights, but both have their uses.
I used to run a gimmick list where I would put Zahndrekh in a Ghost Ark with some Warriors, move forward 12", and then Ghostwalk Mantle Obyron 12" forward with whatever squad I wanted for fun violence. It's much harder to get Zahndrekh in an Ark now (he'll be alone in it...), but I think we could see similar things in this edition.
sad thing, they die to flayed ones tried it out yesterday but their endurance against other threads is not factored in
Sasori wrote: I'm getting 1.4 Unsaved wounds for the new Wraiths.. You know they Kept their 3+ Invul right?
So, the Dlord is slightly better against S4 shooting, however, it gets worse as things go up in strength for the 2+ Save Dlord, compared to the Wraiths.
You are spot on! it's 1.48. My maths failed me.
I'm not going to try and mathhammer the 5+ strength's, one fail a day is enough for me! small arm's fire seemed to be usually what killed my wraith's so it's good to see they are more resilient against it. Specifically speaking about the formation though as I outlined before I don't think at first glance it's OP. I may be wrong.. Id just prefer a destroyer lord over 1 x Spyder (which would be pretty easy to kill to remove the bonus) and a couple of unit's of scarabs.
You also have to take 2 x warrior squads, 1 x unit of immortals and a unit of tomb blades which somewhat lowers your ability to spam (like old wraith wing basically was).
2 x NS with 10 man warriors = 520 (compared to 330 in old dex, as you would usually only take 5 man squads)
1 x NS with a unit of immortals = 215 (compared to 185 in old dex)
So straight up you are 220 points down compared to your old build. (old NS's were 100 points right?)
Judicator Battalion: Pick an enemy unit within 12" of the Stalker, all units in the formation re-roll failed to-hit, to-wound, and armour penetration rolls against that enemy unit.
I could be wrong, but I thought this just had to be withing LOS of the Stalker?
So far I've only seen LOS as well. If it's only 12", that's very restrictive and would make the formation much less appealing.
Thud wrote:
Requizen wrote: The Formations themselves are pretty normal. Restrictive as to the models they bring, with decent bonuses. It's only when they're part of the Decurion that they become insane.
From what I can tell they're only available through the Decurion, though. You can't just take the Judicator Battalion, for example, and add it to any army as a Formation. It needs to be part of the Decurion.
"If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment."
Emphasis mine.
So you realized you can have a destroyer only primary detachement (it says so specifically under the bonus of the destroyer cult?!)! And does this mean I then get +1 to RP too? I think so!
I even thought you will only get the destroyer cult bonus when taken as a primary detachement.
If you only take the Destroyer Formation, you don't get the +1 to RP. You only get that if you take the full Decurion, which includes the Reclamation Legion.
"If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment."
Speaking of the destroyer cult as primary detachment or even decurion in it's own right:
This sentence is a little strange! Why does it say that entire decurion detachement?
Shouldn't it say that entire formation is your primary detachement?
Or say that that formation now counts as your decurion (with all benefits then)?
PIUS_2 wrote: I'm pretty sure that Canoptek's don't have RP.
The Canoptek Formation gives them the option to have Reanimation Protocols as long as their within range 12" ( this may be 6 I cannot find the formation rules) of the Tomb Spyder.
PIUS_2 wrote: I'm pretty sure that Canoptek's don't have RP.
The Canoptek Formation gives them the option to have Reanimation Protocols as long as their within range 12" ( this may be 6 I cannot find the formation rules) of the Tomb Spyder.
Okay thank you.
here is the wording I guess it also says THE spyder:
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
I am a tad confused how someone uses the formations in a non-Decurion army.
My rule book says I can take two types of detachment, a Combined Arms Detachment or an Allied Detachment. These are the only battle-forged choices available.
Both CAD and Allied are made up of numbers of slots of HQ, Tr, FA, HS, El, LoW or Fortifications.
So at no point can I fit formations into the two choices.
Presumably in order to do so I need to add special detachments. So I could have a CAD, an allied, a Decurion or a special detachment. Each special detachment can be any one Codex:Necrons formation.
I rather face 24 wraiths than 18 with RP.
I guess it boils down to how fast your army can find and kill tomb spyders (pretty sure necron player will not leave them in the open)
Bear in mind Wilson's example is list is 1830 bare bones and doesn't include the canoptek formation.
People keep talking about all of this being horribly broken. I've been messing around with lists since most of this broke and you really can't fit all this broken stuff people are discussing into single lists.
Minimum points for a Reformation legion is 489 (assuming overlord is 90pts). That's with nothing on any unit. So you can then at best fit in 5 of the canoptek formations at their minimum (230). That would give you 15 Wraiths, 15 scarab swarms and 5 spiders and no ranged support for the list that made wraithwing so good in the previous codex and less wraiths.
Bottom line less chicken little. There are solid aspects to the codex we've seen but they cost when it comes to building a solid army.
Ffyllotek wrote: I am a tad confused how someone uses the formations in a non-Decurion army.
My rule book says I can take two types of detachment, a Combined Arms Detachment or an Allied Detachment. These are the only battle-forged choices available.
Both CAD and Allied are made up of numbers of slots of HQ, Tr, FA, HS, El, LoW or Fortifications.
So at no point can I fit formations into the two choices.
Presumably in order to do so I need to add special detachments. So I could have a CAD, an allied, a Decurion or a special detachment. Each special detachment can be any one Codex:Necrons formation.
Is this right?
You can take formations in a Battle forged army (though I don't know yet if the Decurion formations are exclusive to the decurion detachment or not). Formations are a type of detachment and a Battle-forged army is simply an army made up entirely of detachments. The Combined arms and Allied detachments are the only ones shown in the BRB and can be used by anyone, but they are not the only detachments allowed in a Battle-forged army.
It took me a few reads to wrap my head around that when I first got the rule book.
Ffyllotek wrote: I am a tad confused how someone uses the formations in a non-Decurion army.
My rule book says I can take two types of detachment, a Combined Arms Detachment or an Allied Detachment. These are the only battle-forged choices available.
Both CAD and Allied are made up of numbers of slots of HQ, Tr, FA, HS, El, LoW or Fortifications.
So at no point can I fit formations into the two choices.
Presumably in order to do so I need to add special detachments. So I could have a CAD, an allied, a Decurion or a special detachment. Each special detachment can be any one Codex:Necrons formation.
Is this right?
You can take formations in a Battle forged army (though I don't know yet if the Decurion formations are exclusive to the decurion detachment or not). Formations are a type of detachment and a Battle-forged army is simply an army made up entirely of detachments. The Combined arms and Allied detachments are the only ones shown in the BRB and can be used by anyone, but they are not the only detachments allowed in a Battle-forged army.
It took me a few reads to wrap my head around that when I first got the rule book.
I have a post on my blog about this subject with a few examples, if it helps.
Anpu-adom wrote: I see a lot of confusion as to how armies are built in the era of 7th edition.
Forget FOC Forget 'Source'
It is detachments... and formations fit within detachments.
Aren't formations separate entities that can be taken alongside detachments? Or do they count as both formations and detachments when they are taken standalone?
Kangodo wrote: Decurion is, so far, the only Detachment that contains Formations
Not true at all. Formations are Detachments, and there are Formations made up of Formations.
If you look at the Exterminatus book, there's the Guardians of Perdita Formation. It's made up of one Conclave of the Burning One, one Zarathusa's Royal Decurion, and one Anrakyr's Strategic Decurion. It's a Detachment made up of those 3 Formations.
The Necron Decurion is exactly the same, except you have freedom to decide which options to include.
Kangodo wrote: Decurion is, so far, the only Detachment that contains Formations
Not true at all. Formations are Detachments, and there are Formations made up of Formations.
If you look at the Exterminatus book, there's the Guardians of Perdita Formation. It's made up of one Conclave of the Burning One, one Zarathusa's Royal Decurion, and one Anrakyr's Strategic Decurion. It's a Detachment made up of those 3 Formations.
The Necron Decurion is exactly the same, except you have freedom to decide which options to include.
Yup. Pg 121 of the BRB: "Formations are a special type of detachment..."
Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....
Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....
If its confusing now, just wait til you're 4 beers into a sixer trying to remember which unit is part of which detachment and gets the benefit of what.
This isn't a criticism against the new codex rumors, just a criticism of the way the game is going in general. It used to be enough to unlock the cool rules with a certain charcter or piece of wargear. Now we are looking at 3 - 12 units to do so. If its possible to take more than 1 "Decurion", I can see this becoming a big accounting headache. But maybe I'm just a dummy.
So I can take the mephrit ctan fornation and put the god shackel in there? Because this formation counts as mephrit detachment and can choose relics from the mephrit dynastie. Now i cann add this detachment (formation) in my decurion army. Question is, can i take codex equipment on the cryptecs also, or only mephrit eq?
Ffyllotek wrote: So I could field a battle forged Necron army (with a big enough points limit as):
CAD1 Primary - Warlord (ObSec) Necron
Allied (ObSec) Tau
CAD2 (ObSec) Necron
Special 1: Anrakyr's Decurion
Special 2: Necron Decurion (Resurgence Legion, Destroyer Cult, Destroyer Cult, Destroyer Cult, Canotek formation)
Special 3: Destroyer Cult
Special 4: Mephrit Decurion
Special 5: Royal Decurion
Special 6: Necron Decurion (Resurgence Legion)
Special 7: Resurgence Legion
Ten detachments.
I think that covers about every combination...
As I read it, yes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
stormcraft wrote: So I can take the mephrit ctan fornation and put the god shackel in there? Because this formation counts as mephrit detachment and can choose relics from the mephrit dynastie. Now i cann add this detachment (formation) in my decurion army. Question is, can i take codex equipment on the cryptecs also, or only mephrit eq?
The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.
I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.
Kangodo wrote: Yes, we have Formations made up out of Formations.
But I was talking about pure Detachments.
That terminology is wrong. The "pure Detachment" you're talking about, I assume you mean like CAD or Mephrit Dynasty or the codex-specific ones, is a Force Organization Chart, or FOC.
A FOC is a type of Detachment.
A Formation is a type of Detachment.
Specific things like a Knight "Detachment" is a type of Detachment.
The Decurion is a Detachment (though further broken down into Formations that could be taken as their own Detachments if you so desired).
Being Battle Forged is just saying "every model on the table is part of a Detachment". If you have a model on the table that is not part of a Detachment, you're Unbound. Simple as that.
Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....
If its confusing now, just wait til you're 4 beers into a sixer trying to remember which unit is part of which detachment and gets the benefit of what.
This isn't a criticism against the new codex rumors, just a criticism of the way the game is going in general. It used to be enough to unlock the cool rules with a certain charcter or piece of wargear. Now we are looking at 3 - 12 units to do so. If its possible to take more than 1 "Decurion", I can see this becoming a big accounting headache. But maybe I'm just a dummy.
I mean sure, if you're playing Apocalypse I guess. But honestly at the 1000-2000 point range that most people play at you can't get more than a few detachments unless you're doing stupid things like Coteaz + Assassin + LotD + all the smallest formations you can think of. Most people's lists are one main detachment with an Allied and/or single Formation.
Yes, in the hypothetical, if you were playing 5000 points with your opponent and you brought 8 Detachments it might get confusing. But come on, be serious now.
I was being serious, but I do acknowledge in lower points game it won't be an issue.
In my gaming group, we sometimes play 2K, but its usually 2.5K or higher, which is where I can see this complication coming in to play. It already does to some degree in games I've played against new Orks and with Tyranids.
He can only move 6" in the movement phase now that he's Jet Pack Infantry, so he'll slow the Wraith down. Of course, if you don't mind that, there's nothing stopping you.
Requizen wrote: Also, keep in mind that Destroyer Lords with Wraiths isn't a thing anymore.
Why not?
He's there to soak up wounds.
He's Jet Pack Infantry now, which means he moves 6" instead of 12". He gets a thrust move in the movement phase, but overall he's going to have a tough time keeping up with Wraiths if they're moving 12" and Running. Even if he did, he wouldn't be out front, where he could conceivably do the soaking.
Hey, Has anyone else seen the obelisk/tesseract Vault entries? Tesla Spheres don't seem to have "independent targeting" , So they can effectively only fire one per turn.
harkequin wrote: Hey, Has anyone else seen the obelisk/tesseract Vault entries? Tesla Spheres don't seem to have "independent targeting" , So they can effectively only fire one per turn.
They're Superheavy Vehicles, which can target multiple units naturally.
Requizen wrote: Also, keep in mind that Destroyer Lords with Wraiths isn't a thing anymore.
Why not?
He's there to soak up wounds.
He's Jet Pack Infantry now, which means he moves 6" instead of 12". He gets a thrust move in the movement phase, but overall he's going to have a tough time keeping up with Wraiths if they're moving 12" and Running. Even if he did, he wouldn't be out front, where he could conceivably do the soaking.
Seems like you could detach him in the movement phase, let the Wraiths run ahead and then rejoin them in the Assault Phase with his 2d6 move. Barring really bad rolls, he could keep up. It's just riskier.
Requizen wrote: Also, keep in mind that Destroyer Lords with Wraiths isn't a thing anymore.
Why not?
He's there to soak up wounds.
He's Jet Pack Infantry now, which means he moves 6" instead of 12". He gets a thrust move in the movement phase, but overall he's going to have a tough time keeping up with Wraiths if they're moving 12" and Running. Even if he did, he wouldn't be out front, where he could conceivably do the soaking.
Seems like you could detach him in the movement phase, let the Wraiths run ahead and then rejoin them in the Assault Phase with his 2d6 move. Barring really bad rolls, he could keep up. It's just riskier.
On average he's actually going to go faster. His 2D6 thrust move should come out at 7 on average.
So wraiths closing enemy down will move 12 then run 1D6.
Destroyer Lord will move 6, run 1D (or shoot), then thrust 2D6.
This issue is he will die from no 2+ saves anymore, and doesn't seem to be able to take a 3++ so he won't be a particularly effective bullet catcher.
BarBoBot wrote: You can only join and leave units in the movement phase
Yup. Basically the lord WILL be able to keep up, though it will require a bit of leap-frogging. The wraiths move up 12", stringing back 1 or 2 models to maintain coherency with the Lord who only moves 6". They run D6" together, then in the assault phase the lord catches up with his 2d6" thrust move and maintains a frontal or mid-position in the unit.
edit - NInja'd!
Double edit - I don't have all the rules in front of me, but he has access to Technoarcana. That means there's a chance he can get a phase shifter for a 4++ save, followed by his RP roll of 5+ (or 4+ in a decurion).
Henker-Kind wrote:Yeah, encouraged by the new rules I just finished painting my 10 metal flayed ones - so beautiful ...
Question: infiltrate: only one model with that rule in a unit is enough to give it to everyone in the unit, so can I infiltrate obyron with them?
bye!
Infiltrate is a special case in that it doesn't work with Independent Characters. There's a specific section on it in the rulebook. Basically, if a Unit has Infiltrate and the IC does not, they can't Infiltrate. But he does have his Ghost Walk Mantle, so they can Deep Strike.
tetrisphreak wrote:
BarBoBot wrote: You can only join and leave units in the movement phase
Yup. Basically the lord WILL be able to keep up, though it will require a bit of leap-frogging. The wraiths move up 12", stringing back 1 or 2 models to maintain coherency with the Lord who only moves 6". They run D6" together, then in the assault phase the lord catches up with his 2d6" thrust move and maintains a frontal or mid-position in the unit.
edit - NInja'd!
Double edit - I don't have all the rules in front of me, but he has access to Technoarcana. That means there's a chance he can get a phase shifter for a 4++ save, followed by his RP roll of 5+ (or 4+ in a decurion).
Yeah, you can string along the line, but of course then you run into charge issues where only some of the models are able to fight. Which is good for tarpitting, but less good for killing.
I'm going to at least try out a d-lord with wraiths to see if its worth it. In previous games, I got more from the preferred enemy conferring to the unit than I did sticking him out in front to soak up shots.
BarBoBot wrote: I'm going to at least try out a d-lord with wraiths to see if its worth it. In previous games, I got more from the preferred enemy conferring to the unit than I did sticking him out in front to soak up shots.
This.
I'd even slow wraiths down in order to keep PE. With how the wraiths currently look, and if ran as a Canotek formation in a Decurion, they are awesome; PE is a cherry on top.
Henker-Kind wrote: Yeah, encouraged by the new rules I just finished painting my 10 metal flayed ones - so beautiful ...
Question: infiltrate: only one model with that rule in a unit is enough to give it to everyone in the unit, so can I infiltrate obyron with them?
bye!
But you can infiltrate with a Cryptek in the group since the Crypteks are Infantry (Character). Infiltrate into some ruins, 4+ cover, 4+ arm, 4+++ Reanimate. Hell take an orb on the cryptek for good measure to reroll the failed ranimates on all the shooting this squad is gonna have to endure.
Henker-Kind wrote: Yeah, encouraged by the new rules I just finished painting my 10 metal flayed ones - so beautiful ...
Question: infiltrate: only one model with that rule in a unit is enough to give it to everyone in the unit, so can I infiltrate obyron with them?
bye!
But you can infiltrate with a Cryptek in the group since the Crypteks are Infantry (Character). Infiltrate into some ruins, 4+ cover, 4+ arm, 4+++ Reanimate. Hell take an orb on the cryptek for good measure to reroll the failed ranimates on all the shooting this squad is gonna have to endure.
Crypteks and Lords are Independent Characters now. Forget the old Royal Court.
Infiltrate says it works so long as one model in the unit has it. Order of operations error aside, I can't think of any reason for that wording other than the expectation you can make combined units making use of the rule.
Henker-Kind wrote: Yeah, encouraged by the new rules I just finished painting my 10 metal flayed ones - so beautiful ...
Question: infiltrate: only one model with that rule in a unit is enough to give it to everyone in the unit, so can I infiltrate obyron with them?
bye!
But you can infiltrate with a Cryptek in the group since the Crypteks are Infantry (Character). Infiltrate into some ruins, 4+ cover, 4+ arm, 4+++ Reanimate. Hell take an orb on the cryptek for good measure to reroll the failed ranimates on all the shooting this squad is gonna have to endure.
Crypteks and Lords are Independent Characters now. Forget the old Royal Court.
nevermidn foudn it....wasnt looking at special rules...i suck.
Henker-Kind wrote: Yeah, encouraged by the new rules I just finished painting my 10 metal flayed ones - so beautiful ...
Question: infiltrate: only one model with that rule in a unit is enough to give it to everyone in the unit, so can I infiltrate obyron with them?
bye!
But you can infiltrate with a Cryptek in the group since the Crypteks are Infantry (Character). Infiltrate into some ruins, 4+ cover, 4+ arm, 4+++ Reanimate. Hell take an orb on the cryptek for good measure to reroll the failed ranimates on all the shooting this squad is gonna have to endure.
Crypteks and Lords are Independent Characters now. Forget the old Royal Court.
Im looking at a scan from the new book right now that says INfantry ( character)
Look under Special Rules. That's where Independent Character is listed. All Independent Characters are Type(Character), but not all (Character)s are ICs.
Tokhuah wrote: Was anything spoiled about whether Gauss weapons are still glancing on a 6 when firing a snap shot?
Confirmed: despite being in storage for awhile my two Stalker's front legs still move. It will be great to get them on the table again.
Well, you'd have to roll a six, followed by a six to glance, so it's pretty unlikely, but there is nothing in the rules prohibiting this.
Did I miss something in all the spoilage or are we missing antiaircraft tech?
You didn't miss anything. Pretty much relegated to Nightscythes as anit-aircraft.
Night scythes and Aegis Lines.
Good thing I used some half remembered high school carpentry lessons to stick together a Necron Defence line with the same physical dimensions as the imperial one not too long ago. Not painted yet, but should look pretty good in 2001 Monolith black.
I had the realization while looking at all the discussion about all the small formations. Technically the royal court listed in the decurion is also a formation just like the auxillaries so if you wanted a ton of characters (which would get expensive fast) you could take multiple royal court formations. Of course without the book, we don't know if this would be legal.
Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.
Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.
Warmonger2757 wrote: I had the realization while looking at all the discussion about all the small formations. Technically the royal court listed in the decurion is also a formation just like the auxillaries so if you wanted a ton of characters (which would get expensive fast) you could take multiple royal court formations. Of course without the book, we don't know if this would be legal.
As long as they are each their own detachment I think your right. 0-1 for decurion though.
Ffyllotek wrote: I am a tad confused how someone uses the formations in a non-Decurion army.
My rule book says I can take two types of detachment, a Combined Arms Detachment or an Allied Detachment. These are the only battle-forged choices available.
Both CAD and Allied are made up of numbers of slots of HQ, Tr, FA, HS, El, LoW or Fortifications.
So at no point can I fit formations into the two choices.
Presumably in order to do so I need to add special detachments. So I could have a CAD, an allied, a Decurion or a special detachment. Each special detachment can be any one Codex:Necrons formation.
Is this right?
Formations have rules too. They're basically detachments you add to an army like you do allies.
Requizen wrote: Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.
Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.
And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.
I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.
Anpu-adom wrote: The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.
I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.
The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.
Anpu-adom wrote: The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.
I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.
The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.
Which is honestly reasonable given how few they are. It's not a full artifact list, it's just a few toys.
Anpu-adom wrote: The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.
I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.
The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.
Which is honestly reasonable given how few they are. It's not a full artifact list, it's just a few toys.
Yup. And it's not like you can take them in a Decurion which is where they'd end up being broken.
And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.
I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.
Tomb Blades with the quad gun will also be good against wave serpent spam, or help out at the very least.
And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.
I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.
Tomb Blades with the quad gun will also be good against wave serpent spam, or help out at the very least.
If you really want to be mean, put a Triarch Stalker next to them, making the Quad Gun functionally BS10.
Tokhuah wrote: Did I miss something in all the spoilage or are we missing antiaircraft tech?
The Obelisk is anti-aircraft, but at 300 points it is quite pricey.
It's less so now, just an 18" bubble of Dangerous Terrain for Flyers, Skimmers, FMCs, and Jetbikes (even against things that normally pass automatically). It doesn't do an automatic hit in the bubble like before, so it's not really a great AA option, though it'll give nearby troops some cover from charging FMCs and Jetbikes.
changemod wrote:
Requizen wrote: Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.
Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.
And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.
I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.
Tomb Blades are kind of a cool idea, though you're trading BS5 for that Ignores Cover. I guess that might be an even tradeoff.
I don't know how Vengeance Batteries work, I know that if unoccupied they fire at BS2 at the closest target (Automated Fire), but can they be manned and fired manually? If so, one with an Overlord of one type or another (or Tomb Blade) would be quite good overall.
ClockworkZion wrote:
Anpu-adom wrote: The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.
I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.
The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.
Well, we haven't seen the full Artifacts page from the Codex. It might state that they can only be taken by Detachments from Codex: Necrons, which would limit Mephrit from taking them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, the Obelisk Rule is kinda dumb.
"...Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests."
Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Things with Mover Through Cover automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests. So... it does nothing against Swooping FMCs.
Requizen wrote: Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.
Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.
And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.
I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.
Tomb Blades are kind of a cool idea, though you're trading BS5 for that Ignores Cover. I guess that might be an even tradeoff.
I don't know how Vengeance Batteries work, I know that if unoccupied they fire at BS2 at the closest target (Automated Fire), but can they be manned and fired manually? If so, one with an Overlord of one type or another (or Tomb Blade) would be quite good overall.
They can't be manned, but they do have Interceptor. So basically, they kill flyers on arrival and spend the rest of the game passively holding objectives (I tripled checked, they are capable of holding) whilst plinking away 4 twin linked snap shot Lascannon shots at the nearest target.
And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.
I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.
Tomb Blades with the quad gun will also be good against wave serpent spam, or help out at the very least.
If you really want to be mean, put a Triarch Stalker next to them, making the Quad Gun functionally BS10.
True. Although if someone is using wave serpent spam, anything you do then is fair game, as far as I'm concerned.
Requizen wrote: Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.
Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.
And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.
I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.
Tomb Blades are kind of a cool idea, though you're trading BS5 for that Ignores Cover. I guess that might be an even tradeoff.
I don't know how Vengeance Batteries work, I know that if unoccupied they fire at BS2 at the closest target (Automated Fire), but can they be manned and fired manually? If so, one with an Overlord of one type or another (or Tomb Blade) would be quite good overall.
They can't be manned, but they do have Interceptor. So basically, they kill flyers on arrival and spend the rest of the game passively holding objectives (I tripled checked, they are capable of holding) whilst plinking away 4 twin linked snap shot Lascannon shots at the nearest target.
Eh... BS2 just turns me off to them. Sure, Twin Linked, but that's a good number of points to pay for Ork shooting.
changemod wrote: Infiltrate says it works so long as one model in the unit has it. Order of operations error aside, I can't think of any reason for that wording other than the expectation you can make combined units making use of the rule.
Theres a rule under IC that says they cant join a unit with infiltrate and "infiltrate" if they dont also have it.
But the if the IC has infiltrate (which grants it to everyone) but the group doesnt normally, is still debated because of order of deployment and IC joining a unit timing.
MechaBeast wrote: Theres a rule under IC that says they cant join a unit with infiltrate and "infiltrate" if they dont also have it.
Fair 'nuff.
You could probably join up a Destroyer Lord to a Flayed One group without too much difficulty... Mind you, Preferred Enemy is half wasted on a unit with Shred already.
Requizen wrote: Actually, the Obelisk Rule is kinda dumb.
"...Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests."
Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Things with Mover Through Cover automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests. So... it does nothing against Swooping FMCs.
Yes, it clearly does.
When you pass something automatically you do not have to roll.
But this rule says they DO have to take the test, which means they can fail.
What actually happens with FMC's and Flyers that take a DT-test?
I'm not really familiar with the rule since it hardly comes up in games.
Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....
No, what confuses people is that they keep using 6th edition terms and rules.
A Formation is not a pure Detachment, a Formation is a Detachment with additional rules.
pretre wrote: When they have to roll, they pass automatically.
Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.
pretre wrote: When they have to roll, they pass automatically.
Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.
It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically. I would give the Obelisk player the benefit of the doubt and roll for DT on my FMC's as I believe the intent was that the FMC's would test and potentially fail. But RAW - FMC's are forced to test and they pass automatically.
It states verbatim: "... and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests." There is a big difference between "not normally take dangerous terrain tests" and "even though they normally pass it".
pretre wrote: When they have to roll, they pass automatically.
Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.
Optional Skyfire. If I'm paying Lord of War prices I want to not snap fire at ground targets.
Besides, you can take a Pylon if you want to do that so much.
pretre wrote: When they have to roll, they pass automatically.
Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.
It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically. I would give the Obelisk player the benefit of the doubt and roll for DT on my FMC's as I believe the intent was that the FMC's would test and potentially fail. But RAW - FMC's are forced to test and they pass automatically.
It states verbatim: "... and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests." There is a big difference between "not normally take dangerous terrain tests" and "even though they normally pass it".
Vaguely technically yes, but do you genuinely expect to weasel out of that one on a technicality? This isn't a programming language where the compiler crashes if you get the syntax wrong.
pretre wrote: When they have to roll, they pass automatically.
Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.
Optional Skyfire. If I'm paying Lord of War prices I want to not snap fire at ground targets.
Besides, you can take a Pylon if you want to do that so much.
pretre wrote: When they have to roll, they pass automatically.
Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.
It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically. I would give the Obelisk player the benefit of the doubt and roll for DT on my FMC's as I believe the intent was that the FMC's would test and potentially fail. But RAW - FMC's are forced to test and they pass automatically.
It states verbatim: "... and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests." There is a big difference between "not normally take dangerous terrain tests" and "even though they normally pass it".
Vaguely technically yes, but do you genuinely expect to weasel out of that one on a technicality? This isn't a programming language where the compiler crashes if you get the syntax wrong.
No. That's why I said I would personally rule it based on the intent. But ambiguous wording like this starts arguments and is really unfortunate for the game as a whole.
First off, better enjoy your Shackled Conclave C'tans while you can, because once GW hits with 8th ed Formation and Detachment clarifications/rewrites (seriously this stuff is completely counter to their goal of a simplified & accessible rule set) you probably will be waving goodbye to your beloved usable C'tans. Back into the T7 & immobile trash bin they go, because you all know GW doesn't do FAQ!
Likewise, the relatively new FW book has been cripplingly invalidated. They'll need an update ASAP or pull the book. 7th ED is costing a good company money.
AS for this Decurion everyone is raving about...
The wording on the new Decurion is obfuscatory to anything but a 40k forum. To a newcomer, they'll read it as the mandatory way to play Necrons. And this no doubt was done intentionally to sell bigger packages; it's bait and switch robbery to people (read: kids) who don't know better.
"THIS is how you play 40k. But THIS is how you play Necrons*."
"*Fineprint: Not really"
To further push the point, and as was noted earlier in this thread, the rules are damn fine on these. Damn fine. To the point where you're shooting yourself in the foot by not playing them in the most cost-inefficient play style. Your liberty as a player has been subtly manipulated through huge incentives.
A lot of fun stuff has been added: Flayed Ones, powerful C'tan combos, effective BS10 Destroyers, and a cost effective Super Heavy that starts a DS chain. We're a step closer to playing as tactically as the old Tau.
PS. I wouldn't argue that the Mephrit Dynasty can take the codex relics, unless you want to lose friends.
changemod wrote: Vaguely technically yes, but do you genuinely expect to weasel out of that one on a technicality? This isn't a programming language where the compiler crashes if you get the syntax wrong.
I don't get that comment, why should we enjoy it while we can and what is "8th edition" going to change about it?
The current way that Detachments and Formations work is quite clear and easy to understand.
A newcomer isn't going to have any issues with it, it are the 'veterans' (people from 6th) that keep using rules and terms that are no longer relevant.
We cannot rule on the Relic-thing since we do not have the rules.
zeromaeus wrote: The wording is imprecise, but the intent is clear. Trying to make exact wording loopholes out of it seems kinda overly pedantic.
There are two things in play for Swooping FMCs regarding Dangerous Terrain tests:
1. All MCs have Move Through Cover, which results in an MC auto-passing and Dangerous Terrain test. By convention, this roll is not actually made.
2. From the FMC rules in the BRB: "a Flying Monstrous Creature that is Swooping does not take Dangerous Terrain tests”
So if the FMC is swooping, they don't even have to take a test, auto-pass or not. The obelisk requires them to actually take the test, but they'd still auto-pass it. For this to be otherwise, the obelisk rule would have to say something like: "...Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests. This test is not automatically passed."
That's how I see things anyway. Probably a better idea to take it to YMDC after the book is actually released though.
rollawaythestone wrote: No. That's why I said I would personally rule it based on the intent. But ambiguous wording like this starts arguments and is really unfortunate for the game as a whole.
Yeah, fair enough.
I got hit by the same thing earlier: Pointed out an exact wording problem that could cause arguments on the God Shackle, and got insulted for my troubles. We, meaning everyone in general, should probably make more of a habit of differentiating between making arguments and pointing out possible arguments upon hitting the table.
FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...
Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.
Galorian wrote: FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...
Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.
My GW said I couldn't have it before midnight, and that they were doing an apocalypse event that stretched to midnight.
Because obviously someone who lives ten miles away can get home by public transport at midnight on a Friday night carrying two large cases, right?
Galorian wrote: FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...
Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.
They can give it to you on Saturday. The 31st is the release date. You're only 2 hours ahead of the UK.
Ironically, in the states, they can't give it to you before it is released in the UK, but with the time difference, it's actually possible to get the stuff on friday afternoon. I went to a GW store here and asked if I could get the new White Dwarf on a Friday. The manager told me he couldn't sell it to me before 4pm which was annoying since it was noon at the time and I was on my way out of town.
Galorian wrote: FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...
Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.
My GW said I couldn't have it before midnight, and that they were doing an apocalypse event that stretched to midnight.
Because obviously someone who lives ten miles away can get home by public transport at midnight on a Friday night carrying two large cases, right?
The real irony is that the 31st is my birthday, and I can't get my own present!
angelofvengeance wrote:@changemod: Taxi?
How will he pay for it? He probably already sold a kidney just to afford his order!
Galorian wrote: FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...
Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.
They can give it to you on Saturday. The 31st is the release date. You're only 2 hours ahead of the UK.
Ironically, in the states, they can't give it to you before it is released in the UK, but with the time difference, it's actually possible to get the stuff on friday afternoon. I went to a GW store here and asked if I could get the new White Dwarf on a Friday. The manager told me he couldn't sell it to me before 4pm which was annoying since it was noon at the time and I was on my way out of town.
But they aren't open on Saturday, which is the problem...
Locally our stores are allowed to sell GW new releases after 12pm on Friday. Which works out because I'm headed out of town for the weekend and have 2 4-hour flights to take so I can pick it up before I head out which is pretty sweet.
Nice, someone on /tg/ just posted the Wargear-section. Though it is in German!
Confirmed: No Dispersion Shield for Lords. Judicar bonus only works for the Formation. All Auxiliary-stuff can be taken as Formations.
changemod wrote: So if people are enthusiastic about the Obelisk now that it's AV14, how are we feeling about the Tesseract Vault now that it has Tesla Spheres?
I have two feelings: 1. They should have had this before. 2. Still has random powers. I won't touch these things with a 10 foot pole as long as GW insists that Random weapons are awesome, especially AFTER you select a target.
Sad if the Judicar bonus only works on the Judicar formation. Makes it fairly pointless actually. It also make the decision toward using a normal CAD/Mephrit more likely. The ability to pick the formation that best fits my army outside of the decurion is tempting but so is 30 jetbikes that ignore cover with their guns and have a 4+ RP.
Lots of options with this book. I'm pretty excited!
changemod wrote: So if people are enthusiastic about the Obelisk now that it's AV14, how are we feeling about the Tesseract Vault now that it has Tesla Spheres?
Like I said before - Vault is 250 more points than an Obelisk. For those 250 points, you lose the Dangerous Terrain bubble, but gain random Apoc powers and 3 Hull Points. As strong as all the powers are, I still hate the Randomness.
So is 250pts worth that tradeoff? Up to you, but imo no. My kit is going into an Obelisk.
rollawaythestone wrote: It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically.
From 'Automatic Pass and Fail' in the main rulebook:
If a rule states that a characteristic test 'automatically passes' then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed.
Yes, the rule in the codex is poorly worded but it does point to the test no longer being 'automatically passed' since it requires you to actually take the test.
Dammit, leaked pages of wargear lists specifically say that buying Melee weapons and weapon Artifacts replaces your Staff of Light... no Overlords running around with Solar Staff and Warscythe, have to pick one or the other. Sad, I was really looking forward to having good shooting and a Warscythe to back it up.
I think the obelisk is not bad for some extra shooting, but thats a lot of points I might rather put into something that feels like it gives more tactical flxability. I will use one to try it out of course.
Its AA is laughable, and what I call "opportunistic"....kind of like smash on trygon to crack a land raider - sure you can try it, but you can't count on it as a tactic.
The vault, is low value in my opinion - random powers at 48" in apoc? for 550 points? MAYBE it will have value as a fire magnet.
I have 11 super heavies, and play a lot of apoc (playing in a 12k game satruday) and the ONLY problem I have with super heavies is perfectly demonstrated by these units;
Super heavies are WILDLY out of par on points.
note, I am not saying XYZ is worth ABC points, I am saying that many super heavis have DRAMATIC differences in value per point.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a power/minmaxer/douche bag on these things - (I bought an orca, look it up, that should explain it) I just love big models in games. Sadly some of them are just terrible on a relative scale.
These necron ones - I feel fall on the "low" end of the scale, performance wise. Will I field an obelisk in an apoc game?
Absolutely, I think it looks cool and I have thousands of points to use. I just don't have high expectations for it.
Anyway, the codex
Very excited at all the options - this is what I really wanted.
Sure, the ctan still suck (low survivability + random post target powers = lame) and monoliths are still dumb (ordnance still? Really?) but overall the book is good.
Hollismason wrote: Who was it that figured out the odds on the new FLayed Ones on the charge versus varies units. I thought it was in this thread.
No idea, but here is the text:
Spoiler:
VS Bloodthirster Let's say the Thirster gets the charge against 20 Flayed Ones (they cost only 10 pts more than a bare-bones Bloodthirster). Thirster gets 7 attacks, hits with 4.66, wounds with 3.88 and kills 2.06 Flayed Ones (that is counting his instant death on a 6 axe).
18 Flayed Ones attack back with 72 attacks, hit with 24, wound with 7.33 and inflict 2.44 wounds to the Thirster. Let's call that 2 wounds.
Thirster swings back and kills another 2 models (really 1.77). 16 Flayed Ones swing back and deal another 2 wounds (actually 2.17).
Thirster kills 2 (1.77) more and the last 14-15 Flayed Ones easily take his last wound. Bloodthirster loses while only killing 25% of the Flayed Ones.
VS Death Company 10 Death Company vs 15 Flayed Ones (they cost 5 points less than the Death Company). Again, let's give the Death Company the advantage and say they charged.
Death Company charge in with 50 attacks, hit with 25, wound with 16.66, and kill 4.166 Flayed Ones. 11 Flayed Ones swing back with 44 attacks, hit with 22, wound with 16.5, and kill 3.66 Death Company.
6 Death Company attack first with 18 attacks, hit with 9, wound with 4.5, and kill 1.125 Flayed Ones. 10 Flayed Ones attack back with 40 attacks, hit with 20, wound with 15, and kill 3.33 more Death Company.
3 Death Company attack first with 9 attacks, hit with 4.5, wound with 2.25, and kill 0.5625 Flayed Ones. 9 Flayed Ones attack back with 36 attacks, hit with 18, wound with 13.5 and kill the last 3 Death Company.
The Death Company lose, even when they get the charge, and only killed half the unit.
VS Thunderwolf Cavalry 6 TWC vs 18 Flayed Ones (the Flayed Ones are 6 points cheaper).
6 TWC charge and get 36 attacks, hit with 18, wound with 12, and kill 3 Flayed Ones. 15 Flayed Ones strike back with 60 attacks, hit with 30, wound with 16.66, and deal 5.55 wounds to the TWC (likely killing 3, but let's say they only deal 5 wounds).
4 TWC attack first with 20 attacks, hit with 10, wound with 6.66, and kill 1.66 Flayed Ones. 13 Flayed Ones strike back with 52 attacks, hit with 26, wound with 14.44, and deal 4.8 wounds to the TWC.
1 TWC attacks with 5 attacks, hits with 2.5, wounds with 1.66, and kills 0.41 Flayed Ones. 12-13 Flayed Ones kill the last TWC easily.
VS Meganobz 5 Meganobz vs 15 Flayed Ones (Flayed Ones are 5 pts cheaper).
Meganobz get the charge, but Flayed Ones still go before Power Klaws.
15 Flayed Ones strike first with 60 attacks, hit with 30, wound with 22.5, and deals 3.75 to the Meganobz (I'm going to round up here). 3 Meganobz swing back with 12 attacks, hit with 6, wound with 5, and kills 3.33 Flayed Ones.
12 Flayed Ones attack with 48 attacks, hit with 24, wound with 18, deal 3 more wounds to the Meganobz. 2 Meganobz attack back with 6 attacks, hit with 3, wound with 2.5 and kill 1.66 more Flayed Ones. **Let's assume the Meganobz don't run away on Ld 5-6.**
10 Flayed Ones attack with 40 attacks, hit with 20, wound with 15, and deal 2.5 more wounds to the Meganobz. 1 Meganob attacks back with 3 attacks, hits with 1.5, wounds with 1.25, and kills 0.83 more Flayed Ones. **Let's assume the Meganobz don't run away on Ld 5-6.**
9 Flayed Ones 2.25 more wounds to the Meganob, wiping the unit.
I want to spend some time putting together lists of stuff I already have before buying more... but I also really want to get some Warrior boxes to convert to Flayed Ones.
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I dunno why you would ever not take the Decurion Formation unless you're just completely unhappy with it. +1 RP is insanely good.
50% of all wounds are ignore, 33% of all Instand Wounds is ignored. For pretty much the almost entire army. That's crazy.
If you don't want the restrictions, that's one thing. If you are looking to build a theme list and it doesn't include some of the required models, then that's another.
But yeah, as far as competition, Decurion seems all sorts of amazing.
ClassicCarraway wrote: I've been trying to find it, but am coming up empty...where was it shown that the Decurian Formation gives +1 to RP?
+1 is cryptek
The Decurion detachment itself comes with a +1 RP to all units inside of it.
I keep seeing that on here, but the only thing I've seen in print is relentless and moves through cover, and many of the write ups only list those two USRs. Was it covered in the WD?
The Relentless and MtC is the bonus for the Reclamation-Formation.
The bonus for the Decurion Detachment is called Ever-living:
Models with RP get a +1 on their rolls.
Models with Living Metal ignore Shaken/Stunned.
ClassicCarraway wrote: I've been trying to find it, but am coming up empty...where was it shown that the Decurian Formation gives +1 to RP?
+1 is cryptek
The Decurion detachment itself comes with a +1 RP to all units inside of it.
I keep seeing that on here, but the only thing I've seen in print is relentless and moves through cover, and many of the write ups only list those two USRs. Was it covered in the WD?
If you downloaded the scans from that Dropbox link a while back, on the second page of the Decurion underneath the Formations. Ever-Living is the name of the bonus.
ClassicCarraway wrote: I've been trying to find it, but am coming up empty...where was it shown that the Decurian Formation gives +1 to RP?
+1 is cryptek
The Decurion detachment itself comes with a +1 RP to all units inside of it.
I keep seeing that on here, but the only thing I've seen in print is relentless and moves through cover, and many of the write ups only list those two USRs. Was it covered in the WD?
If you downloaded the scans from that Dropbox link a while back, on the second page of the Decurion underneath the Formations. Ever-Living is the name of the bonus.
...
The forge world special characters still have Ever Living listed in their profiles.
Which just makes the interaction with that list even weirder.
ClassicCarraway wrote: I've been trying to find it, but am coming up empty...where was it shown that the Decurian Formation gives +1 to RP?
+1 is cryptek
The Decurion detachment itself comes with a +1 RP to all units inside of it.
I keep seeing that on here, but the only thing I've seen in print is relentless and moves through cover, and many of the write ups only list those two USRs. Was it covered in the WD?
If you downloaded the scans from that Dropbox link a while back, on the second page of the Decurion underneath the Formations. Ever-Living is the name of the bonus.
...
The forge world special characters still have Ever Living listed in their profiles.
Which just makes the interaction with that list even weirder.
Yeah, for being "sister companies", GW tries to screw over FW at every possible chance...
ClassicCarraway wrote: I've been trying to find it, but am coming up empty...where was it shown that the Decurian Formation gives +1 to RP?
+1 is cryptek
The Decurion detachment itself comes with a +1 RP to all units inside of it.
I keep seeing that on here, but the only thing I've seen in print is relentless and moves through cover, and many of the write ups only list those two USRs. Was it covered in the WD?
If you downloaded the scans from that Dropbox link a while back, on the second page of the Decurion underneath the Formations. Ever-Living is the name of the bonus.
...
The forge world special characters still have Ever Living listed in their profiles.
Which just makes the interaction with that list even weirder.
Yeah, for being "sister companies", GW tries to screw over FW at every possible chance...
I'd really like to still be able to use Kutlakh and Toholk given that I went to the bother of converting models for them and I already have a huge pile of unusable Crypteks.
I'm cool with ignoring Charnel Scarabs since they were just a paint job variant and we now have so many good combat units. I'm cool with ignoring everything else because the other changed units were superficial and everything with a model can be used in an ordinary CAD or Mephrit list.
But as I said, I'd really like to be able to use the two characters.
I posted this over in the tactics section, but this is probably a more appropriate place for it anyhow:
I am on my way to go grab the Necron codex right now, so I'll be around in 2-3 hours (say 7 EST I'm hungry haha) to have a little AMA similar to what jackedup did on the Tyranid boards a few days ago. I'll make a separate thread and post the link here once it's created (which will be right around 7). Won't be posting pics but hopefully pretty much everything will be cleared up a little early for you guys (and me haha)
luke1705 wrote: I posted this over in the tactics section, but this is probably a more appropriate place for it anyhow:
I am on my way to go grab the Necron codex right now, so I'll be around in 2-3 hours (say 7 EST I'm hungry haha) to have a little AMA similar to what jackedup did on the Tyranid boards a few days ago. I'll make a separate thread and post the link here once it's created (which will be right around 7). Won't be posting pics but hopefully pretty much everything will be cleared up a little early for you guys (and me haha)
I'm going to my FLGS tonight. They said they'd have it tomorrow, but I'm just going to, you know, ask if they might have them early and I could get them just a smidge early.
Requizen wrote: I'm going to my FLGS tonight. They said they'd have it tomorrow, but I'm just going to, you know, ask if they might have them early and I could get them just a smidge early.
Do yourself a favor and call ahead and ask. I know my FLGS owner is terrified to release anything for sale even one minute before the day of official release.
Unless of course you havce other reasons for a visit. My closest flgs is a half hour away, so I don't go unless I verify that they have the goods I'm after.
Requizen wrote: I'm going to my FLGS tonight. They said they'd have it tomorrow, but I'm just going to, you know, ask if they might have them early and I could get them just a smidge early.
Do yourself a favor and call ahead and ask. I know my FLGS owner is terrified to release anything for sale even one minute before the day of official release.
Unless of course you havce other reasons for a visit. My closest flgs is a half hour away, so I don't go unless I verify that they have the goods I'm after.
Well tonight is game night. They said it's usually in the Friday of at noon, but I figure if I'm going to be there, never hurts to ask. Especially when you're friendly with the owners of a little store
Requizen wrote: I'm going to my FLGS tonight. They said they'd have it tomorrow, but I'm just going to, you know, ask if they might have them early and I could get them just a smidge early.
Do yourself a favor and call ahead and ask. I know my FLGS owner is terrified to release anything for sale even one minute before the day of official release.
Unless of course you havce other reasons for a visit. My closest flgs is a half hour away, so I don't go unless I verify that they have the goods I'm after.
That's how mine is but I always end up getting all my preorders and goodies such as dice and cards.
I dunno, I think it balances out in points. Phase Shifter is cheaper (though less effective), 2+ is more expensive but also gives Fear (not super useful, but hey), MSS is no longer a mandatory buy, and CCB Lord is cheaper. I think Overlords are cheaper baseline too (now with BS5/WS5 to boot!).
Not unexpected. It's better than an Archite Glaive (20 pts), but you're giving up the Staff of light, instead of a CC weapon. Seems about standard for a 7th edition codex.
But that wouldn't matter since Overlords are cheaper themselves. It also makes Voidreaper a lot better for its points ánd the Edge of Eternity becomes especially sexy.
Byte wrote: Certainly a lot of buzz over this release.
Hm, I noticed that too. Maybe it's just because I was following this one so closely, but I don't think any of the recent releases has been this hyped since Tyranids.
rollawaythestone wrote: It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically.
From 'Automatic Pass and Fail' in the main rulebook:
If a rule states that a characteristic test 'automatically passes' then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed.
Yes, the rule in the codex is poorly worded but it does point to the test no longer being 'automatically passed' since it requires you to actually take the test.
Seriously, If the rule is forcing you to take a test you normally can ignore, it is becuase you can fail said test. There would be NO point in forcing something to take a test that it could automatically pass.
Byte wrote: Certainly a lot of buzz over this release.
Hm, I noticed that too. Maybe it's just because I was following this one so closely, but I don't think any of the recent releases has been this hyped since Tyranids.
After a bunch of mostly tame releases suddenly comes one with massive shifts in internal balance, sweeping rule changes and practically a new form of detachment.
People got mighty interested real quick once it became clear this wasn't a simple copy-paste 7th ed fix codex.
Hollismason wrote: Well that and what people have seen has them excited because
1. Units that were good got better
2. Units that were garbage became really really good
3. We kept every single one of our Characters
4. The changes that were made were not unnecessary and were pretty much expected
It really is very cool that I'll be given reasons to play units that I bought and paid for in my newbie naivety that ended up being pretty lousy on the board. Especially Flayed Ones and Lychguard because they're among my favorite models (and flayed ones are so easy to convert).
I'm bracing for dissapointment in the Monolith. I was really hoping for good things there.
Hollismason wrote: Well that and what people have seen has them excited because
1. Units that were good got better
2. Units that were garbage became really really good
3. We kept every single one of our Characters
4. The changes that were made were not unnecessary and were pretty much expected
Agree with all of this.
The codex IMO is a version 2 of the previous one, they have taken all the things we never played and made them playable which removed the desire to ONLY play wraith's and cheap Tesla. Not to mention they have "fixed" our "cheese", made our in game mechanics simpler and re-balanced the under costed stuff like AB's and NS's.
mitch_rifle wrote: Saturday release is so fething stupid why not a thursday or something
question to yanks and brits what day is more or less the unnoficial shopping day
That would be Saturday, with most people having it off, and having been paid on Friday.
If he is of the Mephrite Dynasty, he get's to reroll failed saves as well. I think that's what that thing does. I think, I don't have the book with me right now.
So it may be a 2+ Reroll, 4+ Reroll, 5++, 5++. If he was a Mephrit Dynasty, it's still unclear if they can take the Decurion Detachment or not.
rollawaythestone wrote: It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically.
From 'Automatic Pass and Fail' in the main rulebook:
If a rule states that a characteristic test 'automatically passes' then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed.
Yes, the rule in the codex is poorly worded but it does point to the test no longer being 'automatically passed' since it requires you to actually take the test.
Seriously, If the rule is forcing you to take a test you normally can ignore, it is becuase you can fail said test. There would be NO point in forcing something to take a test that it could automatically pass.
So I promised I would post the link to the Necron Codex AMA when it went up.....well I decided to put it in this very subforum. So just hit back on your browser button haha
Incorrect! We lost five of our generic characters and most of their wargear.
It's just a stealth loss. Oh sure, we kept the generic staff of light Cryptek, but where are the Harbingers?
Nowhere. Games workshop doesn't make harbinger models you see.
In brighter news, I just finished my first Flayed One made from the spare parts box I had previously been using for making Crypteks, using the YouTube tutorial posted earlier.
I'll also be demoting one of my generic yet to be painted Lord characters to Flayed One status by hacking him up a little and adding distress marks and texture paint. After all, the Flayer virus can strike anyone, right?
Sorry guys! Looks like Insaniak decided that the AMA should continue over here if you have any more questions about the codex. I'm still reading over it trying to decide how to compose my army
Just wanted to answer something that Dominus had posted right before the thread closed:
Theres very few bits I'm missing (the rest can be found by links on natftka btw guys). Heres what I'd like to know:
1. what is the exact wording on melee/ranged weapon selection? (can ICs take multiple weapons including relics?)
2. cost and list of melee weapons and ranged weapons? Any restrictions by character?\
*****EDIT****
1. Great question. All of these sections are actually limited to 1/model. EXCEPT FOR THE TECNOARCHA SECTION!!! I didn't notice that. So you could take a gauntlet of fire, but not also a tachyon arrow. Basically, you can't take multiple res orbs, but you can take all of the upgrades to make a super unkillable bargelord.
You can still take the orb of eternity or the nightmare shroud, but not both.
*************EDIT**************
2. bit of a grey area there.....i'll do the best I can:
Gauntlet - two Termagants (haha puns)
Tachyon Arrow - one lychguard (stock)
Hyperphase Sword & Voidblade - the cost of my dignity
Warscythe - now costs 2 guardsmen more than last edition
MSS - who cares, but it's 2 guardsmen less than last edition
Phylactery - 3 guardsmen
Res Orb - one lychguard
Phase Shifter - one lychguard
Cryptek can't take res orb, orb of eternity, or the voidreaper
No. Interestingly they don't have the formation icon, but they clearly are listed as one in the decurion detachment "force org" chart. Unless you meant what can the models do. That I won't cover entirely but they can both infiltrate and deep strike, which is nifty
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jasper76 wrote: Also, are there any Apoc formations that mad it in like Infinite Phalanx?
Any new Lords of War, or things that were Lords of War that aren't anymore?
Yeah the tranny got downgraded to heavy support. Immotek is now a LOW, as is the Obelisk and Tesseract Vault. Of course, with the decurion you can still field as many Obelisks as your heart desires. (you know, up to 10 in a single decurion haha)
Does the Stalker's special ability in the Judicator Battalion work for all Necron units or only the models in that Formation?
Can the Royal Court be taken as its own formation?
Thanks!"
1. This will be an interesting one...I know that wasn't posted so it is....the same as a unit of 4 un-upgraded canoptek scarabs. Not too shabby.
2. It's just the formation. I mean, you get to re-roll basically EVERYTHING, but it's just the stalker and the Praetorians. The everything bonus only is for the stalker's own special rule, which has a range limitation.
3. Sure can! They all can. Ally with Tau to your hearts' content! Just know that I'll be judging you
jasper76 wrote: Are there multiple Decurion formations, or just the one that's been floating around?
Are there multiple Dynasty options (more than just Mephrit)?
Just the one. And no just Mephrit. Although I've been hearing rumors that there will be a second wave sometime later (like a couple months out) with new models and possibly a supplement, kind of like the treatment that Tyranids got last year. But that's no special knowledge/source. Just the rumor mill turning (ironically this is the perfect spot for that haha)
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Sasori wrote: You can put point costs man... just not full statlines
Oh ok thanks for that. Just wanted to err on the side of caution but that is helpful
Thanks for the answers. So a D lord is finally the beast he should be.
One last clarification on the ranged and melee weapons.. does it say something to the effect of "a model may replace his staff of light" or can you simply take one of?
Yeah you lose the staff for all of the melee weapons as well as the solar staff and voidreaper. No extra attacks
I'd also like to re-iterate that you can take all four of the technoarcha items (MSS, Res Orb, Phase Shifter, Phylactery) on a single model. I mis-read that. You just can't take more than one res orb. Because they eventually have to be able to die haha
BrotherGecko wrote: So is there any concensus on whether or not Mephrit detachments can take Necron faction wargear
As far as I can tell (from scans of the baal book because I don't own that) I believe that you can. They are faction necrons so I don't see why they couldn't take codex: necron wargear. They definitely do have to be part of a MDC detachment (or apparently a formation from that book, which I don't know all of) but for example the conclave of the burning one would be able to take solar thermastite and be used as the formation source for a Codex: Necrons Decurion detachment. Irony. Sadly I can't find a good workaround for a bargelord to get the re-rollable 2+ outside of a full Mephrit FOC, but again I don't own the book
Big request, but could you list the command benefits for each auxiliary detachment?
Second, easier question, can the destroyer lord take technoarana items such as the phase shifter?
Last bother, what the upgrade costs on the triarch stalker, specifically the heavy gauss cannon?
Again, thanks!
You mean like all of the formations? Ay papi here we go haha:
Reclamation Legion gives everyone in the formation relentless and MTC, plus allows re-rolling RP of 1 when withing 12" of overlord (including overlord himself). Just for having it on the overlord that's nice
Judicator Battalion also gives MTC (like why? are we all climbing hills?) and is able to nominate an enemy unit that the stalker can see, giving re-rolls for failed to hit, to wound, and armor pen rolls until the shooting phase is over. You can re-nominate or pick a different target the next turn.
Destroyer cult - you guessed it move through cover. You get the warlord re-roll if this is your primary detachment, and you always re-roll to wound and armor pen in the shooting phase
Deathbringer flight - no MTC! Shock! The doom scythes really needed it! So if one doom scythe shoots at something, the next one to shoot at that same target gets +2 BS. This stacks for each one up to 4 (the limit on the size of the formation). If an enemy unit is within 12" of 2 scythes, you get -1 LD
Living Tomb - all have to deep strike. Monoliths don't scatter when striking within 12" of obelisk. The monoliths each bring a unit with them that disembarks from the gate. Has to be from reserves though.
Annihilation Nexus lets you give quantum shielding from an AB to a DA at the cost of the AB losing its shield (presuming that the DA lost its shield and needs a new one)
Canoptek Harvest lets you have MTC! and relentless, and gives a choice of either : Fleet, RP, or Shred to each unit from the formation within 12" of the spyder. ***EDIT I derped. Ignore the epiphany if you saw it, because it was incorrect. If you're seeing this and wondering what the hell I'm talking about, no worries. Commas OP****
Royal Court is similar to the old one but without the restrictions on having 2 crypteks in a single squad. Also allows for named characters to take the place of certain vanilla versions (obyron can be a counts as lord, for example)
Yes, the lord can do so. If he could move like wraiths, he would be the new hotness. Preferred enemy is dope. He can take everything that the overlord can take, which is pretty much everything. No dispersion shield but that's not on the list anyhow. There's a separate techno list in the wargear section with only :
1) MSS 2) Phylactery
3) Res Orb
4) Phase Shifter
The stalker gets the particle shredder for 5 pts and the heavy gauss cannon for 10. Those are its only options
Sadly. But that brings up something that I've been wondering - say you have str 8 armorbane and haywire. Do you choose which profile to use? Can you cause a glance/pen with haywire and then also roll to pen on the table regularly, potentially causing 2 hull points of damage with a single swing? I feel like the answer is no
luke1705 wrote: Sadly. But that brings up something that I've been wondering - say you have str 8 armorbane and haywire. Do you choose which profile to use? Can you cause a glance/pen with haywire and then also roll to pen on the table regularly, potentially causing 2 hull points of damage with a single swing? I feel like the answer is no
I'm pretty sure that Haywire replaces the normal penetration roll.
Okay so building Flayed Ones from spare parts is ridiculously fun. I think I can get about eight from what I have, which is good because that's just enough that I'll only need one warrior box to make it into a full squad.
I assumed you could at least choose between the two (with haywire normally being the best option) but with high str armorbane like on the warsythe I don't know if haywire is even worth keeping
BrotherGecko wrote: I'd really like a 2+ rerollable barge lord that is Str 8 and has the haywire warlord trait. That would/should smash a knights face in.
Wouldn't do jack.
The Knight has better ini and has a Str D weapon, he'll just tear the barge itself to shreds in CC.
Hollismason wrote: Well that and what people have seen has them excited because
1. Units that were good got better
2. Units that were garbage became really really good
3. We kept every single one of our Characters
4. The changes that were made were not unnecessary and were pretty much expected
Too bad the Decurian detachment and formations are so laughably broken. The unnecessary buffs to Wraiths were bad, but those formations must have been a parting gift from Matt Ward.
Oddly enough, even though GW increased the prices on the previously undercosted units like night scythes and A-barges appropriately, they buffed several units so hard or cut costs so steep, now THOSE units are undercosted, so we start the cycle all over again. Praetorians, lychguard, tomb blades, and flayed ones are a bargain for their abilities/cost. Wraiths are even a better value than they were last version. At least the spam should be low, since there are so many great units there really is no need for it.
Tournament organizers are going to hate this codex.
Where are people getting S8 Warscythes from? Overlords are S5 and Warscythe is +2, right?
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toonkirby wrote: I have a question. Whip coils are now a melee weapon, so if I took them can I get an extra attack?
They are a weapon, but since Wraiths don't have a weapon baseline, they don't get 2 weapon bonus attack. Also, if you choose to use the Whip Coil for the +3I, you don't get Rending.
Requizen wrote: Where are people getting S8 Warscythes from? Overlords are S5 and Warscythe is +2, right?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
toonkirby wrote: I have a question. Whip coils are now a melee weapon, so if I took them can I get an extra attack?
They are a weapon, but since Wraiths don't have a weapon baseline, they don't get 2 weapon bonus attack. Also, if you choose to use the Whip Coil for the +3I, you don't get Rending.
You just said that the Wraiths don't have a weapon baseline, so I guess they have the rending rule on their profile, so they don't lose rending.
Requizen wrote: Where are people getting S8 Warscythes from? Overlords are S5 and Warscythe is +2, right?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
toonkirby wrote: I have a question. Whip coils are now a melee weapon, so if I took them can I get an extra attack?
They are a weapon, but since Wraiths don't have a weapon baseline, they don't get 2 weapon bonus attack. Also, if you choose to use the Whip Coil for the +3I, you don't get Rending.
You just said that the Wraiths don't have a weapon baseline, so I guess they have the rending rule on their profile, so they don't lose rending.
Ah, I thought Rending didn't extend to the weapon in use. My mistake.
Hollismason wrote: Well that and what people have seen has them excited because
1. Units that were good got better
2. Units that were garbage became really really good
3. We kept every single one of our Characters
4. The changes that were made were not unnecessary and were pretty much expected
Too bad the Decurian detachment and formations are so laughably broken. The unnecessary buffs to Wraiths were bad, but those formations must have been a parting gift from Matt Ward.
Oddly enough, even though GW increased the prices on the previously undercosted units like night scythes and A-barges appropriately, they buffed several units so hard or cut costs so steep, now THOSE units are undercosted, so we start the cycle all over again. Praetorians, lychguard, tomb blades, and flayed ones are a bargain for their abilities/cost. Wraiths are even a better value than they were last version. At least the spam should be low, since there are so many great units there really is no need for it.
Tournament organizers are going to hate this codex.
Not really when you consider that all of these close combat units : Praetorians, Lychguard , have a minimum point cost of 250 to 300 points , theey have no transport options other than the Night Scythe and the Monolith.
Otherwise they have to foot slog it.
It's internally well balanced. The formations are really good but like othere have pointed out kill the Spyder for wraiths, kite the others the ary doesn't have other than Wraiths super fast assault. Maybe scarabs.
1. All of the Necron units are heavy hitters poor ini
2. All of the Necron units excepting the Wriaths and Scarabs requires some sort of Transport and the minimum cost is 130
3. None of the Assault units have grenades
4. The minimum cost for the Decurion is 400+ points
What's the best way to use lychguard? I have 5 built that I've never really used. foot Overlord with 5 lychguard? And just use them to assault and take objectives?
Also, as for Wraith buffs, what changed for them? T5 is the only change right?
Hollismason wrote: Well that and what people have seen has them excited because
1. Units that were good got better
2. Units that were garbage became really really good
3. We kept every single one of our Characters
4. The changes that were made were not unnecessary and were pretty much expected
Too bad the Decurian detachment and formations are so laughably broken. The unnecessary buffs to Wraiths were bad, but those formations must have been a parting gift from Matt Ward.
Oddly enough, even though GW increased the prices on the previously undercosted units like night scythes and A-barges appropriately, they buffed several units so hard or cut costs so steep, now THOSE units are undercosted, so we start the cycle all over again. Praetorians, lychguard, tomb blades, and flayed ones are a bargain for their abilities/cost. Wraiths are even a better value than they were last version. At least the spam should be low, since there are so many great units there really is no need for it.
Tournament organizers are going to hate this codex.
Not really when you consider that all of these close combat units : Praetorians, Lychguard , have a minimum point cost of 250 to 300 points , theey have no transport options other than the Night Scythe and the Monolith.
Otherwise they have to foot slog it.
It's internally well balanced. The formations are really good but like othere have pointed out kill the Spyder for wraiths, kite the others the ary doesn't have other than Wraiths super fast assault. Maybe scarabs.
Killing a T6 3+svMC isn't always the easiest thing in the world here, especially with a super fast, super killy, super durable assault unit is screaming down at you.
This is to say nothing of the other formations and synergies within the codex and immense shooting power its going to be able to put out as well.
1. All of the Necron units are heavy hitters poor init
Which is of relatively little distinction when they're T5 3+ with 4+ RP or T5 W2 3++
2. All of the Necron units excepting the Wriaths and Scarabs requires some sort of Transport and the minimum cost is 130
So do most other units in most other armies, and Nightscythes are still damn good. Praetorians as T5 jump infantry can probably find ways to work without one as well.
3. None of the Assault units have grenades
Irrelevant, wouldn't matter if they did.
4. The minimum cost for the Decurion is 400+ points
Given that people typically play 1500-2000pts, I'd say this is fairly irrelevant.
Redemption wrote: He can only move " in the movement phase now that he's Jet Pack Infantry, so he'll slow the Wraith down. Of course, if you don't mind that, there's nothing stopping you.
Jet pack infantry is a strange option.
However, he will have an additional move afterwards so that he could keep up with the Wraiths.
Redemption wrote: He can only move " in the movement phase now that he's Jet Pack Infantry, so he'll slow the Wraith down. Of course, if you don't mind that, there's nothing stopping you.
Jet pack infantry is a strange option.
However, he will have an additional move afterwards so that he could keep up with the Wraiths.
Sure, if you want your destroyer lord standing by himself, since he can't rejoin a unit outside of the movement phase.
Wraiths jump 12 ahead, he moves 6, and is by himself. He jumps in the assault phase, but cannot join.
Unless you daisy chains the wraiths so he can stay in coherency, but then you are just asking for them to lose their front units to enemy fire. Delaying the assault longer, meaning you get shot more...
