NecronLord3 wrote: Nurglings are $5 a base, and scarabs go for less than that on the secondary market.
Isn't that only if you build them as per the instructions in the box? Isn't it far more economical to spread the bits out to make 6 bases (at least), in the same way you needn't put 5 Rippers or 4 Scarabs on a base?
Never seen or heard of anyone using 1,2, and 3 scarabs on a base for keeping track of wounds. I have enough scarabs lying around I could probably make a few.
The $5 Nurgling thing was me. I knew they were $25 a box, but I thought they were 5 bases included, and not 3. So they are are closer to $8.33 a base, and I in no way want to see scarabs go that route.
Anpu-adom wrote: I've looked at the pics of the warriors released with Exterminatus and I'm convinced that it's not a conversion. Things are just a bit too perfect. Being that the arms, guns (minus the front bit) and scarabs are on one sprue while the legs, chest front and back, and heads are on the other. They could release a box with half recut/new sprues (with a suitable price increase).
More likely, they'll recut the warrior sprues... take out some of the empty space on them. Then the'll be able to sell 5 warriors for the price of 12.
I know what you mean about them being pretty darn perfect... but keep in mind that these models are being converted and assembled by the in house GW studio. These are hobbyists who are GOOD at what they do. They get paid to do this 40+ hours a week. If they couldn't make the models look perfect, they shouldn't be working at GW.
I'm inclined to believe that these are conversions. The conversion method was actually in the White Dwarf, which lends a HUGE amount of believability. If it was an entirely new sprue, why not update the rest of the model and not just the little gun bit. It's important to remember that while the arms/guns appear to be on one sprue while the legs appear to be on another, the reality is that it's one big sprue that is "snapped" in half to fit in the box. If they update one bit, they'd be likely to update the rest. One possible option is that the models remain the way they are with the green rods being replaced with a "plastic rods sprue" and that's what we're seeing.
All of the " new" necron models seen in Exterminus are in fact conversions. I am familiar with all the parts. The warrior rifles are from the ghost/doomsday ark gauss flyer arrays. The Edge of Eternity's (wielded by Zarathusa the Ineffable) blade is cut from a vehicle control counsel. The other gem-like part of the staff between the blade and shaft, along with the identical piece on the belt buckle is a bit used on a good number of Necron vehicles. The tabard is just cut from an Overlord's cape. The head piece addition is another vehicle bit.
Btw, the c'tan that's fighting the Hierophant in the book is referred to as a shard, even though it's a Transcendent model. The model is without flying stem, having its feet touch the base.
Do you own the book? In the high def images of the printed book you can clearly see that the head and arms are brand new. Also, although possible to convert, the rods are not the same as those from the immortal kit.
I do indeed own the book, as well as extensive necron conversions. If they are new models (I hope), then they are partial recastings of existing molds.
FYI the new fluff portrays our near and dear necrons in a gilded light. A stark contrast from Damnos. Between the Magnavitrum and the raw power displayed by the C'tan, the necron edit has me very hopeful for the new codex if GW intends to reflect anything written in Exterminus.
Anpu-adom wrote: I've looked at the pics of the warriors released with Exterminatus and I'm convinced that it's not a conversion. Things are just a bit too perfect. Being that the arms, guns (minus the front bit) and scarabs are on one sprue while the legs, chest front and back, and heads are on the other. They could release a box with half recut/new sprues (with a suitable price increase).
More likely, they'll recut the warrior sprues... take out some of the empty space on them. Then the'll be able to sell 5 warriors for the price of 12.
I know what you mean about them being pretty darn perfect... but keep in mind that these models are being converted and assembled by the in house GW studio. These are hobbyists who are GOOD at what they do. They get paid to do this 40+ hours a week. If they couldn't make the models look perfect, they shouldn't be working at GW.
I'm inclined to believe that these are conversions. The conversion method was actually in the White Dwarf, which lends a HUGE amount of believability. If it was an entirely new sprue, why not update the rest of the model and not just the little gun bit. It's important to remember that while the arms/guns appear to be on one sprue while the legs appear to be on another, the reality is that it's one big sprue that is "snapped" in half to fit in the box. If they update one bit, they'd be likely to update the rest. One possible option is that the models remain the way they are with the green rods being replaced with a "plastic rods sprue" and that's what we're seeing.
All of the " new" necron models seen in Exterminus are in fact conversions. I am familiar with all the parts. The warrior rifles are from the ghost/doomsday ark gauss flyer arrays. The Edge of Eternity's (wielded by Zarathusa the Ineffable) blade is cut from a vehicle control counsel. The other gem-like part of the staff between the blade and shaft, along with the identical piece on the belt buckle is a bit used on a good number of Necron vehicles. The tabard is just cut from an Overlord's cape. The head piece addition is another vehicle bit.
Btw, the c'tan that's fighting the Hierophant in the book is referred to as a shard, even though it's a Transcendent model. The model is without flying stem, having its feet touch the base.
Do you own the book? In the high def images of the printed book you can clearly see that the head and arms are brand new. Also, although possible to convert, the rods are not the same as those from the immortal kit.
More likely than not these are all new models.
The White Dwarf article on the new campaign with BA and Necrons show's that they are kit bashed / conversions and the article with images have been posted before.
Couldn't find the english version but this looks like a german WD showing that the orange necrons in the new campaign books are conversions.
Nyghoma wrote: FYI the new fluff portrays our near and dear necrons in a gilded light. A stark contrast from Damnos.
I do hope they keep this "there are countless Tomb Worlds, and each has its own distinct personality" thing going.
There can be proud and arrogant Necrons.
And cold nihilistic Necrons.
And crazy Necrons.
And good Necrons.
And evil Necrons.
And Necrons who still worship C'tan.
And Necrons who are nothing but drones for their SkyNet Master Control Program.
I am okay with all of these possibilities.
In fact, having them this way makes them one of the most personality diverse armies in the game.
Anpu-adom wrote: I've looked at the pics of the warriors released with Exterminatus and I'm convinced that it's not a conversion. Things are just a bit too perfect. Being that the arms, guns (minus the front bit) and scarabs are on one sprue while the legs, chest front and back, and heads are on the other. They could release a box with half recut/new sprues (with a suitable price increase). More likely, they'll recut the warrior sprues... take out some of the empty space on them. Then the'll be able to sell 5 warriors for the price of 12.
I know what you mean about them being pretty darn perfect... but keep in mind that these models are being converted and assembled by the in house GW studio. These are hobbyists who are GOOD at what they do. They get paid to do this 40+ hours a week. If they couldn't make the models look perfect, they shouldn't be working at GW.
I'm inclined to believe that these are conversions. The conversion method was actually in the White Dwarf, which lends a HUGE amount of believability. If it was an entirely new sprue, why not update the rest of the model and not just the little gun bit. It's important to remember that while the arms/guns appear to be on one sprue while the legs appear to be on another, the reality is that it's one big sprue that is "snapped" in half to fit in the box. If they update one bit, they'd be likely to update the rest. One possible option is that the models remain the way they are with the green rods being replaced with a "plastic rods sprue" and that's what we're seeing.
All of the " new" necron models seen in Exterminus are in fact conversions. I am familiar with all the parts. The warrior rifles are from the ghost/doomsday ark gauss flyer arrays. The Edge of Eternity's (wielded by Zarathusa the Ineffable) blade is cut from a vehicle control counsel. The other gem-like part of the staff between the blade and shaft, along with the identical piece on the belt buckle is a bit used on a good number of Necron vehicles. The tabard is just cut from an Overlord's cape. The head piece addition is another vehicle bit.
Btw, the c'tan that's fighting the Hierophant in the book is referred to as a shard, even though it's a Transcendent model. The model is without flying stem, having its feet touch the base.
Do you own the book? In the high def images of the printed book you can clearly see that the head and arms are brand new. Also, although possible to convert, the rods are not the same as those from the immortal kit.
More likely than not these are all new models.
The White Dwarf article on the new campaign with BA and Necrons show's that they are kit bashed / conversions and the article with images have been posted before.
Couldn't find the english version but this looks like a german WD showing that the orange necrons in the new campaign books are conversions.
Yes... I've seen all of those pictures (I have the White Dwarf)... but I suspect subterfuge and a Dire Avenger-ing. Does anyone really expect Warriors to be the only basic troop box that make more than the minimum squad? I hope that doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised when it does.
5$ on GW being lazy as usual and reworking the Death Ray while not reworking the Focused Death Ray and it thus remaining the most overpowered unit in the Necron army.
It ain't that bad. Fragile platform for the amount of attention it draws to itself, so you need to play smart to even get it to fire to maximum effect once before someone retaliates. Firing right across the board it'll only hit a little, so that's more area denial than it's full potential. Deep striking it when it can't fire for a turn is a terrible idea.
And yes, there's that one Death Star brutal alpha strike trick... Which costs about 1000 points, so if you don't win the fight right there, you've lost and most tournament organisers/store owners rule that a unit needs to pick the same origin point and direction.
Hideously powerful weapon? Absolutely, but it takes effort to get the most out of.
NecronLord3 wrote: Nurglings are $5 a base, and scarabs go for less than that on the secondary market.
Isn't that only if you build them as per the instructions in the box? Isn't it far more economical to spread the bits out to make 6 bases (at least), in the same way you needn't put 5 Rippers or 4 Scarabs on a base?
You do realize that not only do they look really weird that way, but they have body parts that cross over between the two sections?
Sigvatr wrote: Yep, as I said. GW will be too lazy to fix it. Mark my words.
Because it's a FW-rule.
They don't bother with the rules from each other, just like Malakim from the BA can still take a Honour Guard ("A what?", says the Codex.)
Though it's quite lazy, the least they could do is have a single intern go over the new Codices and compare it with the FW-entries and make a FAQ.
Sigvatr wrote: Yep, as I said. GW will be too lazy to fix it. Mark my words.
Because it's a FW-rule.
They don't bother with the rules from each other, just like Malakim from the BA can still take a Honour Guard ("A what?", says the Codex.)
Though it's quite lazy, the least they could do is have a single intern go over the new Codices and compare it with the FW-entries and make a FAQ.
I think Sigvatr just wants the Focused death-ray in the standard codex.
Sigvatr wrote: Yep, as I said. GW will be too lazy to fix it. Mark my words.
Because it's a FW-rule.
They don't bother with the rules from each other, just like Malakim from the BA can still take a Honour Guard ("A what?", says the Codex.)
Though it's quite lazy, the least they could do is have a single intern go over the new Codices and compare it with the FW-entries and make a FAQ.
FWisGW. It's the same company. The lazy bunch has not even released a simple FAQ.
Anpu-adom wrote: I've looked at the pics of the warriors released with Exterminatus and I'm convinced that it's not a conversion. Things are just a bit too perfect. Being that the arms, guns (minus the front bit) and scarabs are on one sprue while the legs, chest front and back, and heads are on the other. They could release a box with half recut/new sprues (with a suitable price increase).
More likely, they'll recut the warrior sprues... take out some of the empty space on them. Then the'll be able to sell 5 warriors for the price of 12.
I know what you mean about them being pretty darn perfect... but keep in mind that these models are being converted and assembled by the in house GW studio. These are hobbyists who are GOOD at what they do. They get paid to do this 40+ hours a week. If they couldn't make the models look perfect, they shouldn't be working at GW.
I'm inclined to believe that these are conversions. The conversion method was actually in the White Dwarf, which lends a HUGE amount of believability. If it was an entirely new sprue, why not update the rest of the model and not just the little gun bit. It's important to remember that while the arms/guns appear to be on one sprue while the legs appear to be on another, the reality is that it's one big sprue that is "snapped" in half to fit in the box. If they update one bit, they'd be likely to update the rest. One possible option is that the models remain the way they are with the green rods being replaced with a "plastic rods sprue" and that's what we're seeing.
All of the " new" necron models seen in Exterminus are in fact conversions. I am familiar with all the parts. The warrior rifles are from the ghost/doomsday ark gauss flyer arrays. The Edge of Eternity's (wielded by Zarathusa the Ineffable) blade is cut from a vehicle control counsel. The other gem-like part of the staff between the blade and shaft, along with the identical piece on the belt buckle is a bit used on a good number of Necron vehicles. The tabard is just cut from an Overlord's cape. The head piece addition is another vehicle bit.
Btw, the c'tan that's fighting the Hierophant in the book is referred to as a shard, even though it's a Transcendent model. The model is without flying stem, having its feet touch the base.
Do you own the book? In the high def images of the printed book you can clearly see that the head and arms are brand new. Also, although possible to convert, the rods are not the same as those from the immortal kit.
More likely than not these are all new models.
The White Dwarf article on the new campaign with BA and Necrons show's that they are kit bashed / conversions and the article with images have been posted before.
Couldn't find the english version but this looks like a german WD showing that the orange necrons in the new campaign books are conversions.
Everyone who doesn't replace the weird new gun parts with green plastic rods should feel bad. I mean, Necrons without green plastic rods? Dayum!
On the new codex: I highly doubt that Destroyers get a much needed buff. GW knows that most players still have some of them lying around at home, same as Monoliths, and wouldn't make money if buffing those. I'd wager that FO get a buff along with Lychguard / TP, the IShouldNotBeAModelDesigner-Jetbikes and maybe the Ghost Ark and the IShouldNotWriteRules-day Ark.
Hey, that is offensive!
Over half my Necron Warriors have red rods in their guns, nothing wrong with that.
Praetorians and Destroyers are probably the least bought models, so I except a lot of Formations that are strong and require them.
It's what they did with BA-Vanguard Veterans.
Game Workshop hears the tears of players.
Marine players, that is.
Therefore Necron Destroyers will now cost 60 points and gauss cannons will be AP 4. Heavy Destroyers will be +40pts and heavy guass cannons will now have Get's Hot (can't have filthy Xenos with Lascannon equivalents that are as reliable!)
Also Wraiths will now be 50pts, have a 4+ armour save and no invulnerable save, be Str 4 and no longer have rending.
All other AP 1/2/3 weapons will be AP 4 and cost 10-30pts more.
Brilliant!
In all seriousness, though, I really hope the Necron codex isn't bland as hell (even though I know it will be) and I hope Tomb Blades/Destroyers/C'Tan/Stalkers/DoomArks are playable...
I'd love to make a necron army with a buff/debuff C'tan, Zhandrekh, Destroyers, 2 Stalkers and Tomb Blades and DoomArks and not be laughed off the table...
I'd be very unlikely to play against someone trying to do a sentry star, because it is an absurd combo.
I'm just saying: Even that is all or nothing. It's an attempt to win on turn one.
If it's legal, why would you refuse to play against it? It's very beatable all-eggs-in-one-basket combo.
Same reason I'd be hesitant to go against a Screamerstar or one of those Eldar power builds I keep hearing about.
Mind you, I probably wouldn't recognise the Eldar one if I saw it. Not a very Space Elfy meta round these parts for whatever reason. I've played against Dark Eldar exactly once and Craftworld never.
Sigvatr wrote: Everyone who doesn't replace the weird new gun parts with green plastic rods should feel bad. I mean, Necrons without green plastic rods? Dayum!
•Night Scythes will be nerfed and be reboxed. The reboxed Night Scythe will cost $80.
•Annihilation Barges will be nerfed and be reboxed. The reboxed Annihilation Barge will cost $50.
•Warriors will be 5 to a box with 1 scarab swarm. The price will remain the same.
•The Codex will be $50, an $50 supplement will be availible day one, and th Codex will contain unplayable units (Sun Shark)
While you're at it, you might as well just switch out the Tesla Destructors for Tesla Cannons (which will no longer grant an additional 2 hits on a 6) to make sure no one ever wants to take the thing again.
Happened with the DE Ravager. It lost its special rule letting you move 12 and fire all its guns, went up 5 points and costs a further 15 pts to equip it as it was before.
Just a rule change to Tesla making it not work on snap shots and a small points bump will be fine.
Since I have models for pretty much every unit there is, I'm actually looking forward to new codex nerfing some of them and making other stuff, like Doomsday Arks and Praetorians more useful. Sure, it'll be annoying to have four Night Scythes just collecting dust if they totally suck in the new book, but I've used them enough that it doesn't really matter.
MLKTH wrote: Since I have models for pretty much every unit there is, I'm actually looking forward to new codex nerfing some of them and making other stuff, like Doomsday Arks and Praetorians more useful. Sure, it'll be annoying to have four Night Scythes just collecting dust if they totally suck in the new book, but I've used them enough that it doesn't really matter.
Flyers will always be a strong thing, nerfing them might be the difference between 2 or 4 in your list.
I actually noticed I didn't own a single Triarch Praetorian, but nobody is selling them around here
Oberron wrote: Do you guys think that the AAbarge would be just fine if they remove the twin-link and bumped the points to 100-120?
Sounds ideal, actually.
Removing the twin linking and giving a ten point bump would make it still a solid and cheap vehicle option, whilst finally curing this obsession with constant two and three Annihilation Barge lists nearly every other Necron player I see on the Internet has.
Much more sensible than this idea of killing the utility of the entire weapon category by taking the rule away from snap shots. Charge discouragement and anti-flyer are the primary benefits of Tesla. Without them it's just a gimmick.
Happened with the DE Ravager. It lost its special rule letting you move 12 and fire all its guns, went up 5 points and costs a further 15 pts to equip it as it was before.
Just a rule change to Tesla making it not work on snap shots and a small points bump will be fine.
Yes, and everyone just loves the Ravager changes.
And the answer to the original question is that you hate Necrons and want them nerfed into the ground.
The answer to why a unit might get gimped and go up in points is because GW. Same as something might get better and go down, because GW. The gun won't lose TL because that's what is in the kit, Tesla rule might change to bring it in line with other more recent similar rules (e.g. SW Primaris Living Lightning). I don't really want to see Necrons nerfed as a whole, I think the current book has lots of flavour but poor internal balance. It would be nice to see more variety than the three barges everyone currently takes.
Oberron wrote: Do you guys think that the AAbarge would be just fine if they remove the twin-link and bumped the points to 100-120?
Removing the twin linking and giving a ten point bump would make it still a solid and cheap vehicle option, whilst finally curing this obsession with constant two and three Annihilation Barge lists nearly every other Necron player I see on the Internet has.
Much more sensible than this idea of killing the utility of the entire weapon category by taking the rule away from snap shots. Charge discouragement and anti-flyer are the primary benefits of Tesla. Without them it's just a gimmick.
Unless the points increase is extreme, I don't see them being culled from many lists simply because of viability. It's the best Anti-Air option and the only cost effective heavy support option the Necrons have. You could argue for Spyders but they aren't very survivable for what they do. Necessary for scarab farms but I don't see those lists being that successful. Doomsday Arc and Doomscythe are just too cost prohibitive.
Oberron wrote: Do you guys think that the AAbarge would be just fine if they remove the twin-link and bumped the points to 100-120?
Removing the twin linking and giving a ten point bump would make it still a solid and cheap vehicle option, whilst finally curing this obsession with constant two and three Annihilation Barge lists nearly every other Necron player I see on the Internet has.
Much more sensible than this idea of killing the utility of the entire weapon category by taking the rule away from snap shots. Charge discouragement and anti-flyer are the primary benefits of Tesla. Without them it's just a gimmick.
Unless the points increase is extreme, I don't see them being culled from many lists simply because of viability. It's the best Anti-Air option and the only cost effective heavy support option the Necrons have. You could argue for Spyders but they aren't very survivable for what they do. Necessary for scarab farms but I don't see those lists being that successful. Doomsday Arc and Doomscythe are just too cost prohibitive.
Well, that's depressing.
Honestly, I've been completely put off my barges lately by the general attitude towards them. I was a pretty minimal vehicle player as-is, mind you.
changemod wrote: Jump Spyders would be fun and fit their fluff, though the price bump would make shooty Spyders less practical. Not sure how I'd feel on that one.
What, Spyders can shoot ?
I have my Spyders follow around the scarab swarms, and then jump into the melee with the scarabs to mop up opponents. I don't ever bother with the gun upgrades becuase there will always be scarabs in melee with what ever they want to shoot at.
I know you said just the jet pack move but as far as unit types, Jet pack and Jump don't make sense because they give the Deep Strike rule. I think beasts are the better unit type for them. Possibly drop the Strength by 1 and give the Fabricator Claw the Servo-Arm stats. They're not going to change them of course. Would just imo make them more effective units.
Since we know that Destroyers are getting a re-box maybe there will be a Heavy option that includes Twin-linked Tesla Desructor at no additional cost to compensate for the Barge nerf.
Got Praetorians? Up Wounds to 2 and increase the range of the Rod to 24". Fixed!
Oh yea, and Wraith Coils should go up to 10 pts each but count as x2 one handed weapons to provide an additional attack. Then cost the model +5 but give them +1 toughness. @ 60 pts, Perfect Balance!
Why not? This thread has turned from rumors to wishes...
I wouldn't get hung up on literal terms. The unit types are just a way to categorize models. It's more about functionality than physical description. Deep strike has many incarnations fluff wise. Teleporting, opening a rift, being physicaly drooped from the sky, and maybe in the Spyders case, bursting out of the ground for an ambush. Remember, tomb stalkers/sentinels have phase tunneling. That is bundled with deepstrike too. To me, that can be characterized as either phase-porting in ( as they do in necron cannon) or phase shifting through the ground, beneath an enemy for a peekaboo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But I agree. I've suggested it in an older thread. Give Spyders a package similar to phase tunneling or make them a jumping MC. There's nothing worse than having 8 flat tires for legs when you're the acting response unit for an army. Having mobility to repair, shield, and drop a load would actually make this unit more alluring. Even if the tax goes up on it.
changemod wrote: Jump Spyders would be fun and fit their fluff, though the price bump would make shooty Spyders less practical. Not sure how I'd feel on that one.
What, Spyders can shoot ?
I have my Spyders follow around the scarab swarms, and then jump into the melee with the scarabs to mop up opponents. I don't ever bother with the gun upgrades becuase there will always be scarabs in melee with what ever they want to shoot at.
Scarabs are far faster, so generally I stagger the movement pattern to get two turns of generation, at which point I can charge the scarabs into a vehicle or a Devastator style unit.
Meanwhile the Spyders need something to do to get their points back. Oh sure, they've created an additional 90 points of Scarabs, (120 if Charnel) by this stage, but they'll take until the endgame to get into Melee. Guns make them deadly enough to pop backfield Terminator deep strikes, and three S6 twin linked blasts is nothing to sniff at for fire support.
Plus, gloom prisms are almost always useless and vehicle repair doesn't do much given how quickly vehicles die when you can actually threaten them.
adamsouza wrote: Why would you gimp the gun AND increase points?
GW overbalances stuff all the time. When the solution is either to increase the points or reduce the power, they often do both, rendering the unit useless.
I don't think there was anything in Space Wolves, Orks, Blood Angels, or Grey Knights that was nerfed as hard as hard as the cynics are predicting Necron Nerfs. I just don't see it happening.
Thank you! I like to complain about GW just as much as the next guy, but the last codices are quite good in internal and external balance.
This is a rumour-thread.
So wish-listing is already not-done, but it's even worse to just troll by thinking of ridiculous stuff.
adamsouza wrote: I don't think there was anything in Space Wolves, Orks, Blood Angels, or Grey Knights that was nerfed as hard as hard as the cynics are predicting Necron Nerfs. I just don't see it happening.
Grey Knights lost Inquisition, Assassins, Psybolts, Psyflame, Rad Grenades, and Psychotroke grenades.
Admittedly all reasonable changes, but it was a major hit.
I don't expect major nerfs for Necrons, just a blandification/streamlining and a few outriders-
Tesla will likely change to Shock (same thing, but does not work on snap shots) which will help balance A barges and the fliers.
MSS may disappear, or get turned into something less NPE- say LD test on 3d6 or WS1
Crypteks will likely be simplified into a couple of fixed variants.
Deathmarks will likely lose their counter-deepstrike rules and get Interceptor instead.
Res Protocols may stay the same, while Everliving may just turn into IWND + EW Hopefully Trans C-Tan gets toned down some, and obelisk beefed up some as LoW options.
Tokhuah wrote: Since we know that Destroyers are getting a re-box maybe there will be a Heavy option that includes Twin-linked Tesla Desructor at no additional cost to compensate for the Barge nerf.
Got Praetorians? Up Wounds to 2 and increase the range of the Rod to 24". Fixed!
Oh yea, and Wraith Coils should go up to 10 pts each but count as x2 one handed weapons to provide an additional attack. Then cost the model +5 but give them +1 toughness. @ 60 pts, Perfect Balance!
Why not? This thread has turned from rumors to wishes...
Haaaaaa
...
and then I remember that there are people who actually WANT these changes.
:/
adamsouza wrote: I don't think there was anything in Space Wolves, Orks, Blood Angels, or Grey Knights that was nerfed as hard as hard as the cynics are predicting Necron Nerfs. I just don't see it happening.
Grey Knights lost Inquisition, Assassins, Psybolts, Psyflame, Rad Grenades, and Psychotroke grenades.
Admittedly all reasonable changes, but it was a major hit.
I don't expect major nerfs for Necrons, just a blandification/streamlining and a few outriders-
Tesla will likely change to Shock (same thing, but does not work on snap shots) which will help balance A barges and the fliers.
MSS may disappear, or get turned into something less NPE- say LD test on 3d6 or WS1
Crypteks will likely be simplified into a couple of fixed variants.
Deathmarks will likely lose their counter-deepstrike rules and get Interceptor instead.
Res Protocols may stay the same, while Everliving may just turn into IWND + EW Hopefully Trans C-Tan gets toned down some, and obelisk beefed up some as LoW options.
I wouldn't mind the ever-living being changed to IWND+EW. Ever living just seems to over complicate character re animation protocols. the Crypteks will probably be like the Dark Eldar Haemonculi and just have the toys specific to that particular unit.
I don't expect major nerfs for Necrons, just a blandification/streamlining and a few outriders-
Tesla will likely change to Shock (same thing, but does not work on snap shots) which will help balance A barges and the fliers.
MSS may disappear, or get turned into something less NPE- say LD test on 3d6 or WS1
Crypteks will likely be simplified into a couple of fixed variants.
Deathmarks will likely lose their counter-deepstrike rules and get Interceptor instead.
Res Protocols may stay the same, while Everliving may just turn into IWND + EW Hopefully Trans C-Tan gets toned down some, and obelisk beefed up some as LoW options.
I have a feeling none of this may happen. Has any guess to BA, SW, AM/IG, DE, SM, Tyranids or what ever I missed, really happened from what people guessed except for the "no mini no rules now"?
All I can guess is, since Necrons have all their minis for characters they will not be loosing any. Will be surprised if it happens. As for rules being nerfed, don't see it happening. Funny I don't see the Necrons being all so powerful now like they use to be, so I could see them getting better not worse or sideways the least. I think there will be lots of complaints. Since a lot of people like to quote the tourney scene, I don't see Necrons winning anything as of late. They are not the top dog anymore so who knows, maybe the conspiracy side of me, will see Necrons get a buff so the people who need to win with plastic toy soldiers will flock to Necrons again just like they did in 5th edition.
Kangodo wrote: Different team, they are not going to FAQ it.
So no idea what this has to do with a rumour for a new Necron Codex.
It is rumored that the Death Ray gets a re-write in order to sort any understanding issue out. If GW knew how to do their job, they could simply write sth. like "The Death Ray (and all versions of it) [...]" or simply "The (Focused) Death Ray [...]". New codex gets released anyway, so adding this mere info would be extremely easy.
"and all versions of it", it seems the community is just as bad at making rules as GW is
No, adding that would not be easy. If they start with Forgeworld rules in the Codex, they would add everything.
But that goes entirely against the idea of having two teams: You keep EVERYTHING separate!
Kangodo wrote: Different team, they are not going to FAQ it.
So no idea what this has to do with a rumour for a new Necron Codex.
It is rumored that the Death Ray gets a re-write in order to sort any understanding issue out. If GW knew how to do their job, they could simply write sth. like "The Death Ray (and all versions of it) [...]" or simply "The (Focused) Death Ray [...]". New codex gets released anyway, so adding this mere info would be extremely easy.
Or maybe they can give Doomscythes a FDR upgrade option......
The GW Codex: Necrons can't modify the focused death ray rules given that those rules aren't in the Codex: Necrons to begin with. They'd have to add those rules wholesale to the codex, and that would require a unit/multiple units in the codex to use said rule.
Since pylons are ForgeWorld models and their rules are thusly in IA, what would you suggest should get FDR that is in the codex so that you can get this rule addition?
If Tesla changes to Shock, tesla carbines will become inferior to gauss blasters (sometimes inferior to gauss flayers) in almost all circumstances, other than being Assault. If they do change to that, I'm pretty sure they'll gain something else (Ignore Cover, maybe).
Since pylons are ForgeWorld models and their rules are thusly in IA, what would you suggest should get FDR that is in the codex so that you can get this rule addition?
Like I said Doomscythes. 25 pt upgrade. Exchange deathray for focused deathray. Done.
zeromaeus wrote: The GW Codex: Necrons can't modify the focused death ray rules given that those rules aren't in the Codex: Necrons to begin with. They'd have to add those rules wholesale to the codex, and that would require a unit/multiple units in the codex to use said rule.
GW and FW are not a different company. They cross-reference a lot. Just open any given IA. IA12 for example, that directly references Codex: Necrons. The "FW IS NOT GW" argument is a stillborn argument.
If GW was doing a good job and did as I suggested above, I would love to see people claiming "Nu-uh, this is Codex: Necrons thus everything that's written here has no bearing on FW rules!".
Alcibiades wrote: If Tesla changes to Shock, tesla carbines will become inferior to gauss blasters (sometimes inferior to gauss flayers) in almost all circumstances, other than being Assault. If they do change to that, I'm pretty sure they'll gain something else (Ignore Cover, maybe).
I still don't see the hubbub about tesla and snaps. It isn't any worse than some other special rules that some codex get (battle focus, SMS, etc..). Tesla shots still have AP-. As with most of the necron flavor rules it's all psychological shock and sleight. People have knee-jerks based on just one facet of a effect.
The one decision GW made on gauss affecting vehicles apposed to tesla bearing that torch instead, had me scratching my noggin. Tesla is more plausible to emp equipment hence anti vehicle.
zeromaeus wrote: The GW Codex: Necrons can't modify the focused death ray rules given that those rules aren't in the Codex: Necrons to begin with. They'd have to add those rules wholesale to the codex, and that would require a unit/multiple units in the codex to use said rule.
GW and FW are not a different company. They cross-reference a lot. Just open any given IA. IA12 for example, that directly references Codex: Necrons. The "FW IS NOT GW" argument is a stillborn argument.
If GW was doing a good job and did as I suggested above, I would love to see people claiming "Nu-uh, this is Codex: Necrons thus everything that's written here has no bearing on FW rules!".
Hopefully what will happen is that FW will update their FAQs with the release of the new Necron codex.
Alcibiades wrote: If Tesla changes to Shock, tesla carbines will become inferior to gauss blasters (sometimes inferior to gauss flayers) in almost all circumstances, other than being Assault. If they do change to that, I'm pretty sure they'll gain something else (Ignore Cover, maybe).
I still don't see the hubbub about tesla and snaps. It isn't any worse than some other special rules that some codex get (battle focus, SMS, etc..). Tesla shots still have AP-. As with most of the necron flavor rules it's all psychological shock and sleight. People have knee-jerks based on just one facet of a effect.
The one decision GW made on gauss affecting vehicles apposed to tesla bearing that torch instead, had me scratching my noggin. Tesla is more plausible to emp equipment hence anti vehicle.
Yeah, I don't want tesla to suffer partially for the reasons you've said, that it's not actually broken and would lose all the point in taking it.
The other reason I want it to stay the same is that I've heard so many assertions it's going to be nerfed, some of which were in person and absurdly smug, that I'd frankly improve it out of spite by now if I was the one writing the book.
Tesla doesn't need a nerf, we just need to do something to tone down the twin-linked tesla destructor platforms a touch so they stop being auto-include.
zeromaeus wrote: The GW Codex: Necrons can't modify the focused death ray rules given that those rules aren't in the Codex: Necrons to begin with. They'd have to add those rules wholesale to the codex, and that would require a unit/multiple units in the codex to use said rule.
GW and FW are not a different company. They cross-reference a lot. Just open any given IA. IA12 for example, that directly references Codex: Necrons. The "FW IS NOT GW" argument is a stillborn argument.
If GW was doing a good job and did as I suggested above, I would love to see people claiming "Nu-uh, this is Codex: Necrons thus everything that's written here has no bearing on FW rules!".
Hopefully what will happen is that FW will update their FAQs with the release of the new Necron codex.
Unlikely, but an update that clarifies the Pylon so the Skyfire/interceptor nerf doesn't render it almost worthless would be nice.
Alcibiades wrote: If Tesla changes to Shock, tesla carbines will become inferior to gauss blasters (sometimes inferior to gauss flayers) in almost all circumstances, other than being Assault. If they do change to that, I'm pretty sure they'll gain something else (Ignore Cover, maybe).
I still don't see the hubbub about tesla and snaps. It isn't any worse than some other special rules that some codex get (battle focus, SMS, etc..). Tesla shots still have AP-. As with most of the necron flavor rules it's all psychological shock and sleight. People have knee-jerks based on just one facet of a effect.
The one decision GW made on gauss affecting vehicles apposed to tesla bearing that torch instead, had me scratching my noggin. Tesla is more plausible to emp equipment hence anti vehicle.
Well I can see their point with respect to tesla destructors (since they can jink all day with only around a 50% drop in effectiveness). But as I said if they remove the snap shot effect, tesla carbines will become crap. They are statistically inferior to gauss blasters in I think every case within 12" and only slightly superior from 12"-24". The snap shot thing in overwatch (and being assault) is their only benefit.
I do understand the issue. AB's are lightly undercosted as a 'normal' gun, but they could stay like this. They are fine as AA. The problems come when you Jink and hardly lose any shots from doing so.
In my opinion the 'best' solution would be to change the way they work after Jink and leave the snap-shots alone. But such a rule would be quite messy and overly complicated, so the next best thing would be an upgrade which allows them to use Skyfire.
Though I expect some ridiculous point-increases when I look at the BA-Baal Predator.
Edit: Gauss actually eats the armour away, Tesla just puts lightning on it.. I would guess that most tanks survive some lightning?
Mephrit has already done the extra troops force organisation chart (kind of absurd, frankly, who maxes out troops in a Necron list and still wants more?)
So, what are we most likely to get in the Codex's unique chart?
zeromaeus wrote: The GW Codex: Necrons can't modify the focused death ray rules given that those rules aren't in the Codex: Necrons to begin with. They'd have to add those rules wholesale to the codex, and that would require a unit/multiple units in the codex to use said rule.
GW and FW are not a different company. They cross-reference a lot. Just open any given IA. IA12 for example, that directly references Codex: Necrons. The "FW IS NOT GW" argument is a stillborn argument.
If GW was doing a good job and did as I suggested above, I would love to see people claiming "Nu-uh, this is Codex: Necrons thus everything that's written here has no bearing on FW rules!".
Yeah that wide perception is comical. People would rather play rules lawyer, holding every word written bible, even against an organic and intuitive conceptual reflection of rule interpretations between FW and GW. Folks throw out the whole spirit of an idea in exchange for some insensible rubbish. Just because one DR is worded slightly different than its FW counterpart, doesn't mean that they have a totally separate set of rules.
For example. In IA 12, ground lash for the tesseract ark portrays similar rules to a beam and deathray. They're family. In my mind, you should apply a standard. Now, ground lash specifically says it doesn't affect zooming/ swooping. One page later is the FDR. It's data entry is intentionally written different than ground lash, suggesting FDR in fact can hit zooming/swooping. FDR and DR are the same exact effect just amplified by range and # of hits. Pre 7th edition, how can you even dispute contrast? The spirit of deathrays are supposed to be the same. Only when they call it GROUND lash and specify an important amendment, should this ever change. We fail to use common sense when GW proves ambiguous.
zeromaeus wrote: The GW Codex: Necrons can't modify the focused death ray rules given that those rules aren't in the Codex: Necrons to begin with. They'd have to add those rules wholesale to the codex, and that would require a unit/multiple units in the codex to use said rule.
GW and FW are not a different company. They cross-reference a lot. Just open any given IA. IA12 for example, that directly references Codex: Necrons. The "FW IS NOT GW" argument is a stillborn argument.
If GW was doing a good job and did as I suggested above, I would love to see people claiming "Nu-uh, this is Codex: Necrons thus everything that's written here has no bearing on FW rules!".
i
Other way around. Everything produced in ForgeWorld is supplemental (to an even greater extent than the actual supplements). It adds onto the base that GW provides. Nothing in standard games requires you to have anything related to ForgeWorld. ForgeWorld rules are extra rules and aren't considered part of the core product. Codex: Necrons is a part of the core system, therefore having supplementary materials refer to it is perfectly valid while the inverse (the core referring to supplemetary rules) is not. So yeah, you're right. Codex: Necrons has a huge impact on ForgeWorld rules. ForgeWorld material just has no impact on Codex: Necron rules.
What you clearly want is a FAQ, from the ForgeWorld team, clarifying your issues with the Focused Death Ray rules. Understandable. That isn't going to be a part of Codex: Necrons unless Codex: Necrons has that rule and it is sufficiently clarified in text as published. That, however, would require something in Codex: Necrons to use the Focused Death Ray ruleset.
In this digital age where mail ordered products are a mouse click away, it would make a lot of sense to reference and cross promote the Forge World lines in the main books, and provide cheap ebook versions of both codices and imperial armour books.
Sadly, "Marketing our products" and "Selling Ebooks at Ebook prices" aren't phrases in Games Workshop's vocabulary. I do think people are too hard on them online in a lot of ways, but their inability to promote themselves properly and the impact that has on their services is a very legitimate problem.
The Tesla Destructor has 5.33 hits (1.33 per shot)
After a Jink that becomes 3.67 hits (0.917 per shot)
So they are working at 68.75% efficiency.
A TL-Assault Cannon has 3.56 hits with 1.22 hits after a Jink.
That means it works at 34.38% efficiency.
A Snap Shotting Tesla Destructor has more hits than a regular TL-Assault Cannon, which I find completely okay against Flyers.
My issue, as a Necron player with 5 AB's, is that my penalty for receiving a 4+ Cover Save is something I would call insignificant.
But what I mentioned many times before is that a nerf to the Jink/Tesla synergy would hurt our AA-capabilities too much, so we should be compensated in that area unless GW wants us to keep spamming Flyers.
All that people remember is when the Tesla Destructor snap shots and get three 6's. They don't remember the drudgery of turn upon turn of rolling few to no 6's that is the relative norm.
Fafnir13 wrote: All that people remember is when the Tesla Destructor snap shots and get three 6's. They don't remember the drudgery of turn upon turn of rolling few to no 6's that is the relative norm.
Hardly. You only have a 23% chance to not roll any 6's with a Tesla Destructor when you snapfire. Only 16% if you include the Annihilation Barge's underslung Tesla cannon. And even one 6 can be enough to put the hurt on a lot of things, not to mention letting you roll for Arc. As Kangodo mentioned, it's mostly that the Tesla Destructor only loses 31% efficiency to basically double the vehicle's resilience on already durable and cheap platforms is what rubs people the wrong way.
But it's just an artefact of an old codex, I fully expect the extra 2 hits on 6's to be removed when you snapfire a la the Shock rule from the new Space Wolves codex.
Besides, why are we putting Necron weaponry on par with everyone else's? I always figured Necrons hit a little harder and were harder to kill as a result of the whole 'no psychic abilities whatsoever' thing. If you balance Necron stats to everything else on a base level, Necrons will kinda lose out.
Redemption wrote: But it's just an artefact of an old codex, I fully expect the extra 2 hits on 6's to be removed when you snapfire a la the Shock rule from the new Space Wolves codex.
But where does that leave us with anti-air?
Do you want Necrons to rely on only Flyers for that?
I want the new Codex to reduce the amount of lists with 4 Flyers, not increase it!
adamsouza wrote: I did screw up the twin linked on Snap shots. I only figured rerolls on 1-2, not 1-5
It's much too late to be doing the maths
It was too late, I was just lucky that I had all the math saved in an excel-file A week or two ago I had to calculate the difference between BS4 and BS3 on the Barge, to see the actual difference.
I see misconceptions on both sides:
Some people think Tesla Destructors gain more hits when Snapshotting.
But on the other side we have people thinking they suffer just as much.
Well it is an artifact of an old codex in the sense that Carbines before filled a totally different niche than they do now that Rapid Fire has changed.
adamsouza wrote: Why does it have to be an artifact of an old codex ?
It's an artefact because snapfiring and flyers didn't exist when the current Necron codex was released. And it has basically become a no-brainer choice, instead of a tactical decision on risk versus reward. When there's such a small penalty for jinking, but such a huge bonus to defence, you just almost always do it.
Maybe advanced Alien technology is suppossed to work better than the stuff the Imperium has , but barely understands.
That's just a fallacy if you want any kind of balance between armies. Beside the fact that the same case can be made for pretty much every codex (Necron/Eldar have super technology! Sistes have super faith! 'Nids are super-evolving! Space Marines are super-hardcore! etc), more powerful stuff should be represented by more expensive units. Not just by being plain better.
It's not like the Eldar have really good skimmers... Oh wait.
Balancing a codex based on another overpowered codex is another fallacy; that is what leads to power creep. When the next Eldar codex is released, they should fix those troubled units as well. And for the record, Eldar is one of my armies.
zeromaeus wrote: Besides, why are we putting Necron weaponry on par with everyone else's? I always figured Necrons hit a little harder and were harder to kill as a result of the whole 'no psychic abilities whatsoever' thing. If you balance Necron stats to everything else on a base level, Necrons will kinda lose out.
Necrons have Crypteks with their esoteric wargear instead of Psykers, which are far more reliable than psychic powers too. At least, they currently are, who knows what they'll do with them in the next codex, of course.
Kangodo wrote: But where does that leave us with anti-air?
Do you want Necrons to rely on only Flyers for that?
I want the new Codex to reduce the amount of lists with 4 Flyers, not increase it!
Same place as the other codexes, I guess? It's not like the other armies have loads of spamable AA options, barring a few exceptions.
Alcibiades wrote: If Tesla changes to Shock, tesla carbines will become inferior to gauss blasters (sometimes inferior to gauss flayers) in almost all circumstances, other than being Assault. If they do change to that, I'm pretty sure they'll gain something else (Ignore Cover, maybe).
Tesla should cause pinning. You ever see someone get tazed?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kangodo wrote: I do understand the issue.
AB's are lightly undercosted as a 'normal' gun, but they could stay like this.
They are fine as AA.
The problems come when you Jink and hardly lose any shots from doing so.
In my opinion the 'best' solution would be to change the way they work after Jink and leave the snap-shots alone.
But such a rule would be quite messy and overly complicated, so the next best thing would be an upgrade which allows them to use Skyfire.
Though I expect some ridiculous point-increases when I look at the BA-Baal Predator.
Edit: Gauss actually eats the armour away, Tesla just puts lightning on it.. I would guess that most tanks survive some lightning?
People need to stop pretending AB's are the only AA option. Night scythes carry the same weapon platform you know and GW knows it as well. So far GK, BA, SW, Eldar and DE all rely on fliers for AA (flack missiles don't count for )
Redemption wrote: But it's just an artefact of an old codex, I fully expect the extra 2 hits on 6's to be removed when you snapfire a la the Shock rule from the new Space Wolves codex.
But where does that leave us with anti-air?
Do you want Necrons to rely on only Flyers for that?.
You mean like Tyranids and Dark Eldar? I don't see a problem with it.
Sinful Hero wrote: You mean like Tyranids and Dark Eldar? I don't see a problem with it.
And ninja'ed by a couple others it seems.
So because your army doesn't have it, the other kids can't have their toys either and they should take it away?
Do you know how that sounds?
Red Corsair wrote: People need to stop pretending AB's are the only AA option. Night scythes carry the same weapon platform you know and GW knows it as well. So far GK, BA, SW, Eldar and DE all rely on fliers for AA (flack missiles don't count for )
So what you are saying is: "I want Necrons to spam more Flyers!"?
First time I ever heard that from a player.
Sinful Hero wrote: You mean like Tyranids and Dark Eldar? I don't see a problem with it.
And ninja'ed by a couple others it seems.
So because your army doesn't have it, the other kids can't have their toys either and they should take it away?
Do you know how that sounds?
Red Corsair wrote: People need to stop pretending AB's are the only AA option. Night scythes carry the same weapon platform you know and GW knows it as well. So far GK, BA, SW, Eldar and DE all rely on fliers for AA (flack missiles don't count for )
So what you are saying is: "I want Necrons to spam more Flyers!"?
First time I ever heard that from a player.
Or perhaps, "Bring it in line with the rest of the game.", but you're more than welcome to infer whatever you please from my posts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If armies have any non-flyer anti-air, it's usually a dedicated ground unit that specifically deals with flyers, not a unit that hits everything all the time.
Which is why, if you read my previous posts, I think they should remove the snapfires from Tesla and give it a Skyfire upgrade.
That way you can either have a AB or a AB as AA.
Kangodo wrote: Which is why, if you read my previous posts, I think they should remove the snapfires from Tesla and give it a Skyfire upgrade.
That way you can either have a AB or a AB as AA.
Redemption wrote: But it's just an artefact of an old codex, I fully expect the extra 2 hits on 6's to be removed when you snapfire a la the Shock rule from the new Space Wolves codex.
But where does that leave us with anti-air?
Do you want Necrons to rely on only Flyers for that?
I want the new Codex to reduce the amount of lists with 4 Flyers, not increase it!
It appears as if you were arguing that they needed to keep the snap fire. Although if they took that away and added a skyfire option it wouldn't be any different than Tau or a Flakk upgrade.
And nowhere did I mention they should keep it I've often explain my reasoning and it comes down to:
-Snapshot + Tesla in Overwatch: Good
-Snapshot + Tesla in AA: Good
-Snapshot + Tesla in Jink: Holy crap overpowered!
It's incredibly hard to find a neat way to fix the last, while keeping the first two intact.
The problem is that most people who come to complain about it totally forget the first two applications of the synergy.
adamsouza wrote: Why does it have to be an artifact of an old codex ?
It's an artefact because snapfiring and flyers didn't exist when the current Necron codex was released. And it has basically become a no-brainer choice, instead of a tactical decision on risk versus reward. When there's such a small penalty for jinking, but such a huge bonus to defence, you just almost always do it.
Yes, tesla has an advantage in this department, ok. Let's not pretend that this is an isolated case for an army have an advantage in some department. Everyone has their own proverbial "tesla". Distort ANYONE!?
Post-snapshot issues with tesla could have been easily faq'ed for years.......Coincidence?
Maybe advanced Alien technology is suppossed to work better than the stuff the Imperium has , but barely understands.
That's just a fallacy if you want any kind of balance between armies. Beside the fact that the same case can be made for pretty much every codex (Necron/Eldar anecdote super technology! Sistes have super faith! 'Nids are super-evolving! Space Marines are super-hardcore! etc), more powerful stuff should be represented by more expensive units. Not just by being plain better.
I think the real fallacy is what you wrote above: "different=better". Percentage wise tesla does a little better with snaps, but taking everything necron in account, not just a singular facet, I'd say it's just fine. Necron gave birth to unorthodox rules, as did the Tau during their inception. And even after all these years of exposure, some kids still can't wrap their heads around it resulting in base fear.
It's not like the Eldar have really good skimmers... Oh wait.
Balancing a codex based on another overpowered codex is another fallacy; that is what leads to power creep. When the next Eldar codex is released, they should fix those troubled units as well. And for the record, Eldar is one of my armies.
Balance is a game of whack-a-mole. Neverending, ever elusive.
zeromaeus wrote: Besides, why are we putting Necron weaponry on par with everyone else's? I always figured Necrons hit a little harder and were harder to kill as a result of the whole 'no psychic abilities whatsoever' thing. If you balance Necron stats to everything else on a base level, Necrons will kinda lose out.
Necrons have Crypteks with their esoteric wargear instead of Psykers, which are far more reliable than psychic powers too. At least, they currently are, who knows what they'll do with them in the next codex, of course.
Don't EVEN go there. You're comparing harbingers with psychics? Ok, I need a diaper change.
Kangodo wrote: But where does that leave us with anti-air?
Do you want Necrons to rely on only Flyers for that?
I want the new Codex to reduce the amount of lists with 4 Flyers, not increase it!
Same place as the other codexes, I guess? It's not like the other armies have loads of spamable AA options, barring a few exceptions.
Right, right an excellent point. Let's give the stand alone codex with zero battle brother options even less avenues to explore than it already has, in support of mass hysteria and homogenization!! A double negative is a positive, right?
Sorry but all your anecdotes are flatulent. I mean really, an Eldar player needs to reign in on what's too good for necrons? Now I've seen it all....
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Kangodo wrote: And nowhere did I mention they should keep it I've often explain my reasoning and it comes down to:
-Snapshot + Tesla in Overwatch: Good
-Snapshot + Tesla in AA: Good
-Snapshot + Tesla in Jink: Holy crap overpowered!
It's incredibly hard to find a neat way to fix the last, while keeping the first two intact.
The problem is that most people who come to complain about it totally forget the first two applications of the synergy.
Don't be a sell out by caving to non-sense on the Internet. TESLA IS FINE. Omg! There's a 16.5% chance I'm gonna get hit with a AP- weapon!!! Think of the children!!!!
Space Marines can do anything, other than snap shot, better than Necrons.
Psykers are better than Crypteks. The powers are better, they can have multiple wounds, and they can be good at close combat.
Eldar have Wave Serpents, universally heralded as the currently most broken good thing in the game.
Everyone, other than Astra Militarum, is better in assualt 90% of the time.
FNP is better than reanimation protocols.
Necrons are what maybe 4th in the top tier armies ? Behind Eldar, Tau, and Space Marines ?
Explain to me what impact Twin Linked Tesla Destructors are having on the overall power of Necrons Armies that they need to be nerfed ? Is 4th Tier just too good ?
It's simply a case of when you spend certain amount of points on a unit, you expect a certain amount of bang for your buck be that in the form of offense/durability/movement etc. The AB and NS are currently far too cheap for what they provide in these areas
Is an A13 (until first pen) 3HP vehicle which can jink and has four TL S7 shots and two S6 shots which all produce extra hits on 6s making it relatively effective even after jinking for 90 points a good deal? It's a bloody amazing deal.
By the same token other units such as the C'Tan and Monolith should have their rules improved/points cost reduced.
Those other codexes mentioned, SM, Eldar, Tau (and I'll throw Daemons in as well) were released when GW was on their power creep and have their own balance issues. Anyone who thinks the AB needs a nerf but the WS doesn't would be a hypocrite.
Isn't Daemons only in the case of certain power builds?
An assault oriented army with only a few units that are actually particularly amazing in assault, and low amounts of fire support. You need to get pretty specific to get a scary Daemons army.
Imperial knights are above Eldar, Tau, Daemons and Necrons.
Torrent of Fire has a breakdown by armies played and armies winning. Of note is although Eldar are played the most (almost double other armies!), they are NOT the most winning army. If all their stuff was really as broken as people rage they should be better than knights and at least have a higher range of wins in comparison to other armies, but instead it's a difference of a 3-4% to other armies and near 9% below knights...
Necrons aren't slouched either in that arena, high win ratio but played less than other armies. Ranked 5th in played and winning.
ryuken87 wrote: It's simply a case of when you spend certain amount of points on a unit, you expect a certain amount of bang for your buck be that in the form of offense/durability/movement etc. The AB and NS are currently far too cheap for what they provide in these areas
Only if you are looking at them in a vacuum, and not in context of how they affect the overall power of the army.
Necron players gleefully spam AB and NS and the army is still 5th tier.
z3n1st wrote: Imperial knights are above Eldar, Space Marines, Daemons and Necrons.
As others already stated, Necrons MUST be "better" than average in some regards as they are denied an entire part of the game, namely Psychics, putting them at a strong disadvantage. While this certainly does not mean that Necrons should never see any nerf, it also means that "just" average isn't enough for an army that just cannot be on par with all other armies in one entire part of the game.
Here's still hoping, though, that GW just changes Crypteks to be Count-as Psykers with individual "powers". Or maybe some WHFB Dwarf-ish solution that makes Necrons decent at "dispelling". Would make perfect sense fluff-wise, unlike the current iteration, where the "technologically most advanced race" seems to be unable to answer one of their two main weaknesses, namely Psychics / the Warp.
On the subject of Night Scythes, I think of them less as my dedicated anti-air and more as my long range artillery. Before I owned any of them, I was consistently having trouble reaching out to my opponents' back field. I tried harbingers of destruction and even a doomsday ark, but they lacked the effectiveness that I was seeing from other races long range guns.
Whatever happens to tesla, I'm hoping our other units see a boost so that I can play more varied lists.
Tesla is fine, but an AV13 vehicle with 'free' Jink for 90 points isn't.
Stuff like that has to come down so they can buff other, more fun, units.
Come on man. Spending 120 pts on DT with 12/ 12/ 10, twin linked str8 lance attacks, a serpent shield that ignores pens or blows up units with d6+1 Str 7 attacks, AND jink is fine?
I can list an example from 3/4 of the codexes that contain a bargain unit, similar to an AB. Why is this made out to be so "dirty" and lascivious?
Look, I play 5 different armies. All of them have their got-to units. You will never see me jump in someone's thread and lobby for nerfs. Why you ask? Because I know everyone has their skeletons, or on the flip side, their benefits. It would be disingenuous.
Here's an exercise for all to ingest. Instead of crying foul or nerfs to an army or one of its many appendages, appraise your army's weakness, and ask nicely for a buff instead. It's like a judo move, redirecting incoming force on to itself. In the end, the results are the same. It's a win-win, and you tend not to offend a share of the community.
The major thing I don't like about the army currently is the Cryptek + Deathmarks in a Night Scythe. That stupid Mark for Death/weird flamer thing that is AP1 or 2 from the Cryptek = 1 squad is pretty much always dead. Which may not seem like a lot but at 1k points it's brutal.
ryuken87 wrote: It's simply a case of when you spend certain amount of points on a unit, you expect a certain amount of bang for your buck be that in the form of offense/durability/movement etc. The AB and NS are currently far too cheap for what they provide in these areas
Only if you are looking at them in a vacuum, and not in context of how they affect the overall power of the army.
Necron players gleefully spam AB and NS and the army is still 5th tier.
Then maybe Necrons should have some buffs in the areas they struggle. Having strengths and weaknesses in different areas helps to give armies character, but the current Necron book is an example of poor internal balance such as some units are spammed and others completely ignored. Is looking across the board and seeing variety not a good thing?
May I genuinely ask what you would like in the new book (apologies if you have stated this previously but it's a long thread)? What would you buff/nerf that would bring Necrons in line with the other more recent releases?
Then maybe Necrons should have some buffs in the areas they struggle. Having strengths and weaknesses in different areas helps to give armies character, but the current Necron book is an example of poor internal balance such as some units are spammed and others completely ignored. Is looking across the board and seeing variety not a good thing?
That's been the case for each and every army in GW games ever.
changemod wrote: We need Pariahs back. No clue why they vanished in the first place, only unit that got dropped from 3rd.
...especially because they would be far better than Trashguard.
I wouldn't go so far as to call them that, we have worse units.
The problem with them is that they're modelled on Assault Terminators but with sucker options and thus only have one of the three traits a pricey assault unit needs.
-Power: Warscythes give plenty.
-Durability: Nowhere near enough for their cost. They can buy an Invulnerable save, but it costs them the only thing that made them useful and makes them even pricier.
-And most critically, a way to get there.
Ideal solution: Give them a 5++ invulnerable save and two swords by default, five point upgrade is to 3++ Shield and Scythe, let them deep strike or take a Ghost Ark as dedicated transport. Makes them the actual Assault Terminator equivalent they're meant to be.
More likely fix that doesn't need a new kit to be released: Cut price, lift the restriction on only Warriors being able to ride an Ark.
Tesla is fine, but an AV13 vehicle with 'free' Jink for 90 points isn't.
Stuff like that has to come down so they can buff other, more fun, units.
Come on man. Spending 120 pts on DT with 12/ 12/ 10, twin linked str8 lance attacks, a serpent shield that ignores pens or blows up units with d6+1 Str 7 attacks, AND jink is fine?
No, both are far too cheap for what they do. You forgot the Ignores Cover and Pinning. It's a dirty, dirty unit.
Sigvatr wrote: As others already stated, Necrons MUST be "better" than average in some regards as they are denied an entire part of the game, namely Psychics, putting them at a strong disadvantage. While this certainly does not mean that Necrons should never see any nerf, it also means that "just" average isn't enough for an army that just cannot be on par with all other armies in one entire part of the game.
Here's still hoping, though, that GW just changes Crypteks to be Count-as Psykers with individual "powers". Or maybe some WHFB Dwarf-ish solution that makes Necrons decent at "dispelling". Would make perfect sense fluff-wise, unlike the current iteration, where the "technologically most advanced race" seems to be unable to answer one of their two main weaknesses, namely Psychics / the Warp.
Necrons used to have Pariahs for antipsyker, now they got jack.
Necron Army Score card Ranged Combat ? Overall medium range, limited selection, mostly AP5 and AP-
Melee Combat ? I2 is a severe disadvantage. Wraiths with whips are good, not much else is. Other options are severly overcosted.
Psychic Phase ? Sit there and take a pounding.
Flyers ? Lots of them, that zoom and can't hover
Antiflyer ? Hope that your flyers made their reserve rolls, haven't flown off the board yet, and are pointing in the right direction.
Twin Linked Tesla Destructors are the one thing you have going in this department. If they get nerfed, you got nothing.
So what are Necrons better at than other races ?
Resilience - Reanimation protocols, CCB, and Scarab Hives let Necrons stay on the board longer than they would without them.
Twin Linked Tesla Destructors - Your first, second, and third choice, because you really don't have a choice. High rate of fire with AP-.
Better at taking down space marine vehicles than it is at taking down space marines. Useless against AV14.
Nyghoma wrote: Come on man. Spending 120 pts on DT with 12/ 12/ 10, twin linked str8 lance attacks, a serpent shield that ignores pens or blows up units with d6+1 Str 7 attacks, AND jink is fine?
I can list an example from 3/4 of the codexes that contain a bargain unit, similar to an AB. Why is this made out to be so "dirty" and lascivious?
Look, I play 5 different armies. All of them have their got-to units. You will never see me jump in someone's thread and lobby for nerfs. Why you ask? Because I know everyone has their skeletons, or on the flip side, their benefits. It would be disingenuous.
Here's an exercise for all to ingest. Instead of crying foul or nerfs to an army or one of its many appendages, appraise your army's weakness, and ask nicely for a buff instead. It's like a judo move, redirecting incoming force on to itself. In the end, the results are the same. It's a win-win, and you tend not to offend a share of the community.
"Kangodo thinks AB's are too strong, that must surely means he approves of Wave Serpents!"
I do not get the logic, or is that just me?
And uhm.. Necrons are my main army? I have around 16.000 points of which at least 5 Annihilation Barges.
Resilience - Reanimation protocols, CCB, and Scarab Hives let Necrons stay on the board longer than they would without them.
Twin Linked Tesla Destructors - Your first, second, and third choice, because you really don't have a choice. High rate of fire with AP-.
Better at taking down space marine vehicles than it is at taking down space marines. Useless against AV14.
Anti-vehicle spam. While not being that famous anymore, spammed Gauss still is a very viable AV mean. Especially with stuff like Tank Hunter.
Sigvatr wrote: As others already stated, Necrons MUST be "better" than average in some regards as they are denied an entire part of the game, namely Psychics, putting them at a strong disadvantage. While this certainly does not mean that Necrons should never see any nerf, it also means that "just" average isn't enough for an army that just cannot be on par with all other armies in one entire part of the game.
Here's still hoping, though, that GW just changes Crypteks to be Count-as Psykers with individual "powers". Or maybe some WHFB Dwarf-ish solution that makes Necrons decent at "dispelling". Would make perfect sense fluff-wise, unlike the current iteration, where the "technologically most advanced race" seems to be unable to answer one of their two main weaknesses, namely Psychics / the Warp.
I would like to reinforce this point and put things in perspective. The psychic phase is potentially the most lucrative phase for given player. Think about it. It's a skinny shooting phase, wrapped in stacking force multipliers. Powers that ignore cover, inv saves, do multiple wounds, stuff your head in a toilet bowl, etc...
Some of the most broken combos imaginable are due to psychic stacking. Invisendurforeboawhat!? Amirite?
Necrons miss their prom day in a bad way. Nerf ing anything in our current codex is blasphemous.
Sigvatr wrote: As others already stated, Necrons MUST be "better" than average in some regards as they are denied an entire part of the game, namely Psychics, putting them at a strong disadvantage. While this certainly does not mean that Necrons should never see any nerf, it also means that "just" average isn't enough for an army that just cannot be on par with all other armies in one entire part of the game.
Here's still hoping, though, that GW just changes Crypteks to be Count-as Psykers with individual "powers". Or maybe some WHFB Dwarf-ish solution that makes Necrons decent at "dispelling". Would make perfect sense fluff-wise, unlike the current iteration, where the "technologically most advanced race" seems to be unable to answer one of their two main weaknesses, namely Psychics / the Warp.
Necrons used to have Pariahs for antipsyker, now they got jack.
Necron Army Score card Ranged Combat ? Overall medium range, limited selection, mostly AP5 and AP- Melee Combat ? I2 is a severe disadvantage. Wraiths with whips are good, not much else is. Other options are severly overcosted. Psychic Phase ? Sit there and take a pounding. Flyers ? Lots of them, that zoom and can't hover Antiflyer ? Hope that your flyers made their reserve rolls, haven't flown off the board yet, and are pointing in the right direction. Twin Linked Tesla Destructors are the one thing you have going in this department. If they get nerfed, you got nothing.
So what are Necrons better at than other races ?
Resilience - Reanimation protocols, CCB, and Scarab Hives let Necrons stay on the board longer than they would without them. Twin Linked Tesla Destructors - Your first, second, and third choice, because you really don't have a choice. High rate of fire with AP-. Better at taking down space marine vehicles than it is at taking down space marines. Useless against AV14.
Our troop units unit can be adequate improvised anti-tank. Of course, we don't really have any good ranged anti-tank to begin with, but still.
Sigvatr wrote: As others already stated, Necrons MUST be "better" than average in some regards as they are denied an entire part of the game, namely Psychics, putting them at a strong disadvantage. While this certainly does not mean that Necrons should never see any nerf, it also means that "just" average isn't enough for an army that just cannot be on par with all other armies in one entire part of the game.
Here's still hoping, though, that GW just changes Crypteks to be Count-as Psykers with individual "powers". Or maybe some WHFB Dwarf-ish solution that makes Necrons decent at "dispelling". Would make perfect sense fluff-wise, unlike the current iteration, where the "technologically most advanced race" seems to be unable to answer one of their two main weaknesses, namely Psychics / the Warp.
I would like to reinforce this point and put things in perspective. The psychic phase is potentially the most lucrative phase for given player. Think about it. It's a skinny shooting phase, wrapped in stacking force multipliers. Powers that ignore cover, inv saves, do multiple wounds, stuff your head in a toilet bowl, etc...
Some of the most broken combos imaginable are due to psychic stacking. Invisendurforeboawhat!? Amirite? Necrons miss their prom day in a bad way. Nerf ing anything in our current codex is blasphemous.
Yeah, the psy-capabilities in the new dex is actually worse than in the old dex. Before we had Pariahs, which were overpriced, but did have a nice AoE anti-psyker field.
Now we have gloom prisms, which are too short ranged to be useful.
Considering how Necrons are supposed to be the experts when it comes to neutering psykers due to the War in Heaven, it's really sad.
I just want an artifact that I can activate once per game, that makes every psy test fail and causes perils. Because feth yo' magic, I'm a robot. I don't take kindly to your illogical shenanigans. Actually, no, that doesn't make sense as an item. Just perils would do
ryuken87 wrote: It's simply a case of when you spend certain amount of points on a unit, you expect a certain amount of bang for your buck be that in the form of offense/durability/movement etc. The AB and NS are currently far too cheap for what they provide in these areas
Only if you are looking at them in a vacuum, and not in context of how they affect the overall power of the army.
Necron players gleefully spam AB and NS and the army is still 5th tier.
z3n1st wrote: Imperial knights are above Eldar, Space Marines, Daemons and Necrons.
Wait, make that 6th tier...
Nope it makes them solidly 5th tier
Imperial Knights 1st (played less than the other top 5 armies and still pulling a Charley Sheen by almost 9% better win ratio over any other army)
Eldar 2nd (played almost TWICE as much as any other army including space monkeys, but only ahead by 2-3 %)
Tau 3rd
Daemons 4th
NECRONS 5th
Nyghoma wrote: Come on man. Spending 120 pts on DT with 12/ 12/ 10, twin linked str8 lance attacks, a serpent shield that ignores pens or blows up units with d6+1 Str 7 attacks, AND jink is fine?
I can list an example from 3/4 of the codexes that contain a bargain unit, similar to an AB. Why is this made out to be so "dirty" and lascivious?
Look, I play 5 different armies. All of them have their got-to units. You will never see me jump in someone's thread and lobby for nerfs. Why you ask? Because I know everyone has their skeletons, or on the flip side, their benefits. It would be disingenuous.
Here's an exercise for all to ingest. Instead of crying foul or nerfs to an army or one of its many appendages, appraise your army's weakness, and ask nicely for a buff instead. It's like a judo move, redirecting incoming force on to itself. In the end, the results are the same. It's a win-win, and you tend not to offend a share of the community.
"Kangodo thinks AB's are too strong, that must surely means he approves of Wave Serpents!"
I do not get the logic, or is that just me?
And uhm.. Necrons are my main army? I have around 16.000 points of which at least 5 Annihilation Barges.
Kangodo, I know you didn't say that, I know you're a deadhead(necronie). The point I was trying to make is DON'T FEEL GUILTY. No guilt for AB, NS, tesla, gauss, reanimate, MSS, WS, or a smashing, wafe physique. We're all in the pigpen. Take your pants off....
10 Warriros with Gauss hit on 3+ and then Glance on 6+.
10 rolls, 7 hit, 1 Glance. Not exactly reliable antitank, unless you are relying on it to glance a tank to death slowly over 2-3 rounds.
With my luck, I roll a ton of 6's to hit and none to glance.
The average Tactical Squad, with a special and heavy weapon, can do better, and they are not considered reliable anti tank.
I'd rather rely on sheer volume of Scarabs, or Tesla to deal with tanks.
adamsouza wrote: 10 Warriros with Gauss hit on 3+ and then Glance on 6+.
10 rolls, 7 hit, 1 Glance. Not exactly reliable antitank, unless you are relying on it to glance a tank to death slowly over 2-3 rounds.
With my luck, I roll a ton of 6's to hit and none to glance.
The average Tactical Squad, with a special and heavy weapon, can do better, and they are not considered reliable anti tank.
I'd rather rely on sheer volume of Scarabs, or Tesla to deal with tanks.
Compared to most infantry, who can't scratch a tank without upgrading, it is pretty impressive.
They are not as reliable as a proper anti-tank unit, that is true.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
z3n1st wrote: I think given the Necron 'unliving robot', admantium will wouldn't be a bad unit upgrade to represent their anti-psy
That's not a bad idea. Increase the range of the Gloom Prism, and you can get a nice anti-psy bubble going.
Nyghoma wrote: Kangodo, I know you didn't say that, I know you're a deadhead(necronie). The point I was trying to make is DON'T FEEL GUILTY. No guilt for AB, NS, tesla, gauss, reanimate, MSS, WS, or a smashing, wafe physique. We're all in the pigpen. Take your pants off....
I don't feel guilty I want the army to be more than "How many Barges can I put in this FOC?" My ideal new Codex keeps us at least as competitive as now, but with more choices of what I can take.
I would love to build a strong and competitive list with Doomsday Arks and Monoliths. That simply isn't going to happen when we have AV13 with Jink for those amount of points.
Tesla, Gauss, MSS, WS, etc, are all things I can throw mathhammer on to proof it's fine. But there are only three units in the Codex which are a bit undercosted.
The problem is that even free army-wide Adamantium will does nothing to slow psychic buffing, which is for the most part the real power in Psyker heavy armies.
Something along the lines of Pariahs, which actively mess with enemy Psykers, is a more sensible solution for an army that can't apply their own psychic phase buffs.
adamsouza wrote: 10 Warriros with Gauss hit on 3+ and then Glance on 6+. 10 rolls, 7 hit, 1 Glance. Not exactly reliable antitank, unless you are relying on it to glance a tank to death slowly over 2-3 rounds.
With my luck, I roll a ton of 6's to hit and none to glance.
The average Tactical Squad, with a special and heavy weapon, can do better, and they are not considered reliable anti tank.
I'd rather rely on sheer volume of Scarabs, or Tesla to deal with tanks.
It's an added bonus, they aren't an AT unit on their own. And a blob of 20 models with Tankhunter is a whole different story
changemod wrote: The problem is that even free army-wide Adamantium will does nothing to slow psychic buffing, which is for the most part the real power in Psyker heavy armies.
Something along the lines of Pariahs, which actively mess with enemy Psykers, is a more sensible solution for an army that can't apply their own psychic phase buffs.
True but giving the option of AW, followed with something like subtraction dice for certain units on the table (say Pariahs, or Warriors as an upgrade), you could shut down or tone down other armies in that way (suddenly you have a reason to have something other than flying bakery items on the table). It would certainly temper heavy psyker armies.
Idea is for each Pariah unit or warrior unit with upgrade, subtract 1 warp charge from the total amount of warp charges each player receives, something along those lines.
Nyghoma wrote: Kangodo, I know you didn't say that, I know you're a deadhead(necronie). The point I was trying to make is DON'T FEEL GUILTY. No guilt for AB, NS, tesla, gauss, reanimate, MSS, WS, or a smashing, wafe physique. We're all in the pigpen. Take your pants off....
I don't feel guilty I want the army to be more than "How many Barges can I put in this FOC?"
My ideal new Codex keeps us at least as competitive as now, but with more choices of what I can take.
I would love to build a strong and competitive list with Doomsday Arks and Monoliths.
That simply isn't going to happen when we have AV13 with Jink for those amount of points.
Tesla, Gauss, MSS, WS, etc, are all things I can throw mathhammer on to proof it's fine.
But there are only three units in the Codex which are a bit undercosted.
Well maybe that's the root of the problem. You personally feel guilty with your overuse of the AB. Honestly, I've never used more than 2 in a dedicated necron list, but typically 0-1, and I table opponents no later then round 2. Which results in lots of swearing and flailing. You can be competitive without the flying whalindas.
Kangodo wrote: No, not guilty with the overuse of AB's.
The guilt comes whenever I field a Monolith, knowing that it could have been two AB's who are a lot better
changemod wrote: The problem is that even free army-wide Adamantium will does nothing to slow psychic buffing, which is for the most part the real power in Psyker heavy armies.
Something along the lines of Pariahs, which actively mess with enemy Psykers, is a more sensible solution for an army that can't apply their own psychic phase buffs.
True but giving the option of AW, followed with something like subtraction dice for certain units on the table (say Pariahs, or Warriors as an upgrade), you could shut down or tone down other armies in that way (suddenly you have a reason to have something other than flying bakery items on the table). It would certainly temper heavy psyker armies.
Idea is for each Pariah unit or warrior unit with upgrade, subtract 1 warp charge from the total amount of warp charges each player receives, something along those lines.
Well that would just be horrible to people using restrained psychic armies. Say you take a single, two warp charge librarian... Facing a Necron list that chews through his warp charges would completely neuter him at any distance. Render him dead weight.
changemod wrote: The problem is that even free army-wide Adamantium will does nothing to slow psychic buffing, which is for the most part the real power in Psyker heavy armies.
Something along the lines of Pariahs, which actively mess with enemy Psykers, is a more sensible solution for an army that can't apply their own psychic phase buffs.
True but giving the option of AW, followed with something like subtraction dice for certain units on the table (say Pariahs, or Warriors as an upgrade), you could shut down or tone down other armies in that way (suddenly you have a reason to have something other than flying bakery items on the table). It would certainly temper heavy psyker armies.
Idea is for each Pariah unit or warrior unit with upgrade, subtract 1 warp charge from the total amount of warp charges each player receives, something along those lines.
Well that would just be horrible to people using restrained psychic armies. Say you take a single, two warp charge librarian... Facing a Necron list that chews through his warp charges would completely neuter him at any distance. Render him dead weight.
It already happens against psychic-heavy armies. I play a mono-Tzeentch flying circus daemon list. I hit 17 dice at 1850, I could do much more than that if I tried to optimize for WC. A single Librarian gets shut down by my army. I played a CSM list the other day and my opponent's two Mastery Level 3 Princes got one or two casts off the entire game.
So the 2 charge librarian has a hard time when faced with an Anti-psyker army? How is that a problem? The tzeentch army that loses something like 5 dice (assuming 5 units), isn't going to shut it down, but will certainly help, especially when coupled with AW. Not seeing the downside here.
How about instead of removing one warp charge per pariah it removes 10% of Warp Charges (rounded up) from the pool,that way normal psykers only lose a little bit of power while psyker heavy armies learn to fear the necrons. (as it should be,fluff wise)
So now you're suggesting that instead of a field-wide passive ability that screws over the enemy army at deployment instead of through tactical use of the unit, we have a field-wide passive ability that requires pausing the game to do a little bit of bookkeeping every time something with the ability dies or arrives from reserves and screws over the enemy army at deployment rather than through tactical use of the unit.
All the psy-hate brings me back to my Tau army. Sure, I have an army where no flier is safe but have no way to prevent psy-spam armies from just plunking down whole units every turn.
If Necrons get a way to shutdown the psychic phase, I want one for my Tau (and Dark Eldar) too!
Drakmord wrote: They would still need some tuning, imo. Would making Psykers run away really do anything for us as a psychic defense?
As someone who ebayed an old Pariah model to paint up and use as an allied Culexus: Absolutely.
Having someone who can shoot twelve high strength armour ignoring shots into a Grey Knight Terminator squad or stroll up to Typhus or a Great Unclean One and kick 'em in the nads so hard they explode is a wonderful counter... And whilst Pariahs would be a lot less extreme, you'd have a whole unit of them.
agnosto wrote: All the psy-hate brings me back to my Tau army. Sure, I have an army where no flier is safe but have no way to prevent psy-spam armies from just plunking down whole units every turn.
If Necrons get a way to shutdown the psychic phase, I want one for my Tau (and Dark Eldar) too!
Problem is that Tau have no anti-psyker tech. Necrons on the other hand have tons of anti-psyker devices.
Maybe the Tau could be granted some sort of special rule that would give their innate resistance to warp powers gameplay representation, such as giving any Tau unit (but not Kroot, drones or Etherials) an automatic dice for DtW rolls (to which you can add more DtW dice from your pool).
Don't know enough about DE to say what may work for them fluffwise.
agnosto wrote: All the psy-hate brings me back to my Tau army. Sure, I have an army where no flier is safe but have no way to prevent psy-spam armies from just plunking down whole units every turn.
If Necrons get a way to shutdown the psychic phase, I want one for my Tau (and Dark Eldar) too!
Problem is that Tau have no anti-psyker tech. Necrons on the other hand have tons of anti-psyker devices.
Maybe the Tau could be granted some sort of special rule that would give their innate resistance to warp powers gameplay representation, such as giving any Tau unit (but not Kroot, drones or Etherials) an automatic dice for DtW rolls (to which you can add more DtW dice from your pool).
Don't know enough about DE to say what may work for them fluffwise.
What tons of Anti-Psyker devices are you talking about? Necros have a gloom prism that goes on Spyders that only effects the unit they are in.
agnosto wrote: All the psy-hate brings me back to my Tau army. Sure, I have an army where no flier is safe but have no way to prevent psy-spam armies from just plunking down whole units every turn.
If Necrons get a way to shutdown the psychic phase, I want one for my Tau (and Dark Eldar) too!
Problem is that Tau have no anti-psyker tech. Necrons on the other hand have tons of anti-psyker devices.
Maybe the Tau could be granted some sort of special rule that would give their innate resistance to warp powers gameplay representation, such as giving any Tau unit (but not Kroot, drones or Etherials) an automatic dice for DtW rolls (to which you can add more DtW dice from your pool).
Don't know enough about DE to say what may work for them fluffwise.
What tons of Anti-Psyker devices are you talking about? Necros have a gloom prism that goes on Spyders that only effects the unit they are in.
He's talking about the numerous bits of necron technology, null field generators being one, that completely nullify psychic powers. To the point that it upsets the fabric of chaos demons beings and generates a void in the warp.
agnosto wrote: All the psy-hate brings me back to my Tau army. Sure, I have an army where no flier is safe but have no way to prevent psy-spam armies from just plunking down whole units every turn.
If Necrons get a way to shutdown the psychic phase, I want one for my Tau (and Dark Eldar) too!
Problem is that Tau have no anti-psyker tech. Necrons on the other hand have tons of anti-psyker devices.
Maybe the Tau could be granted some sort of special rule that would give their innate resistance to warp powers gameplay representation, such as giving any Tau unit (but not Kroot, drones or Etherials) an automatic dice for DtW rolls (to which you can add more DtW dice from your pool).
Don't know enough about DE to say what may work for them fluffwise.
What tons of Anti-Psyker devices are you talking about? Necros have a gloom prism that goes on Spyders that only effects the unit they are in.
In the fluff they do. It's not that well represented in the 5th ed book.
In fact, the 3rd ed codex did a better job of showing their anti-psy potential.
On the birght side, if they do another campaign box, like Stormclaw and Deathstorm, we'll probably get Praetoreans, Doom Blades, and a Triarch Stalker in the box.
adamsouza wrote: On the birght side, if they do another campaign box, like Stormclaw and Deathstorm, we'll probably get Praetoreans, Doom Blades, and a Triarch Stalker in the box.
Next campaign has been said to be around may and include chaos space marines and dark Angels.
But I really hope praetorians, immortals and tomb blades get buffed as they are some of my favorites from the necron line
Tokhuah wrote: Necrons may not roll dice or be targeted during the Psychic phase.
Fixed!
Better yet, any Necron inhibits psychic ability within 48 inches by only allowing success on a roll of a 6 and a perils roll that always has to be taken.
Drakmord wrote: They would still need some tuning, imo. Would making Psykers run away really do anything for us as a psychic defense?
As someone who ebayed an old Pariah model to paint up and use as an allied Culexus: Absolutely.
Having someone who can shoot twelve high strength armour ignoring shots into a Grey Knight Terminator squad or stroll up to Typhus or a Great Unclean One and kick 'em in the nads so hard they explode is a wonderful counter... And whilst Pariahs would be a lot less extreme, you'd have a whole unit of them.
I use my Pariahs currently as Cryptechs, since couldn't stomach paying for the Finecast version. Hopfully, they will supply us with plastics that have different options with the Necron update.
adamsouza wrote: On the birght side, if they do another campaign box, like Stormclaw and Deathstorm, we'll probably get Praetoreans, Doom Blades, and a Triarch Stalker in the box.
Next campaign has been said to be around may and include chaos space marines and dark Angels.
But I really hope praetorians, immortals and tomb blades get buffed as they are some of my favorites from the necron line
Considering CSM and DA are already in Dark Vengeance, and have DV expansion sets, and hard cover codexes, I haven't put much stock in that rumor.
Unless they just want to get rid of a warehouse full of DA and CSM old plastics
I doubt if there is a boxed set that it will not have a Space Marine force in it of some sort. Who knows what it will be. As for the "xenos" half, who really knows. I would have bet my life on the last boxed set being DE or Necrons, but it ended up being Tyranids. I hope they do a boxed set every six months, each time with two different factions. If they redo the Space Marines codex for 7th (highly unlikely anytime soon), they will probably include a few lower selling kits from them in a boxed set. Probably more Tactical Terminators.
The lack of Necrons rumors as of right now isn't that surprising to me. The rumors for Blood Angels really didn't start crystalizing until about two weeks before the codex hit. We should start seeing stuff in a week or so.
It's odd that the mods have left this thread open for so long now, though.
The OP hasn't updated the top post with any of the new info (that came ages ago) and the past however many pages have been nothing but wishlisting and "na-ah, THIS is the most overpowered thing that needs to be nerfed!" spank.
skoffs wrote: It's odd that the mods have left this thread open for so long now, though.
The OP hasn't updated the top post with any of the new info (that came ages ago) and the past however many pages have been nothing but wishlisting and "na-ah, THIS is the most overpowered thing that needs to be nerfed!" spank.
skoffs wrote: It's odd that the mods have left this thread open for so long now, though.
The OP hasn't updated the top post with any of the new info (that came ages ago) and the past however many pages have been nothing but wishlisting and "na-ah, THIS is the most overpowered thing that needs to be nerfed!" spank.
At this point in time a thread like this has to exist, so it might as well be this one.
Tokhuah wrote: Necrons may not roll dice or be targeted during the Psychic phase.
Fixed!
Better yet, any Necron inhibits psychic ability within 48 inches by only allowing success on a roll of a 6 and a perils roll that always has to be taken.
Drakmord wrote: They would still need some tuning, imo. Would making Psykers run away really do anything for us as a psychic defense?
As someone who ebayed an old Pariah model to paint up and use as an allied Culexus: Absolutely.
Having someone who can shoot twelve high strength armour ignoring shots into a Grey Knight Terminator squad or stroll up to Typhus or a Great Unclean One and kick 'em in the nads so hard they explode is a wonderful counter... And whilst Pariahs would be a lot less extreme, you'd have a whole unit of them.
I use my Pariahs currently as Cryptechs, since couldn't stomach paying for the Finecast version. Hopfully, they will supply us with plastics that have different options with the Necron update.
I took Crypteks as a conversion opportunity since they all have different wargear, and went a little overboard. I have 27 Crypteks now. Only one uses the official model, and even he has four arms.
skoffs wrote: It's odd that the mods have left this thread open for so long now, though.
The OP hasn't updated the top post with any of the new info (that came ages ago) and the past however many pages have been nothing but wishlisting and "na-ah, THIS is the most overpowered thing that needs to be nerfed!" spank.
I find it odd that we seem to know more about the alleged Harlequin codex than we do the Necron codex. Still, I would expect us to be seeing concrete stuff in a week or so.
skoffs wrote: It's odd that the mods have left this thread open for so long now, though.
The OP hasn't updated the top post with any of the new info (that came ages ago) and the past however many pages have been nothing but wishlisting and "na-ah, THIS is the most overpowered thing that needs to be nerfed!" spank.
Has there been any new info i missed?
All i've seen is wishlisting in here with nothing new, if there is info that needs to go in the OP let me know the page numbers and will add it.
skoffs wrote: It's odd that the mods have left this thread open for so long now, though.
The OP hasn't updated the top post with any of the new info (that came ages ago) and the past however many pages have been nothing but wishlisting and "na-ah, THIS is the most overpowered thing that needs to be nerfed!" spank.
Kinda reminds me of that first row student who complained about the back row being too loud
skoffs wrote: It's odd that the mods have left this thread open for so long now, though.
The OP hasn't updated the top post with any of the new info (that came ages ago) and the past however many pages have been nothing but wishlisting and "na-ah, THIS is the most overpowered thing that needs to be nerfed!" spank.
Kinda reminds me of that first row student who complained about the back row being too loud
I just wonder why people keep wanting the Rumor Threads shut down, especially this close to some real news.
I remember before the Rapid Codex Release Schedule when these things would hit 150-200+ Pages.
Methinks Necron players, myself included, the "last in line", are getting a bit anxious about the new codex, and when we see this thread bump to the top, we're hoping for news.
jasper76 wrote: Methinks Necron players, myself included, the "last in line", are getting a bit anxious about the new codex, and when we see this thread bump to the top, we're hoping for news.
Yep. Every time I see that there's a new post, I look in, half hoping for new rumors, but feeling that if there are, it's going to be an indicator if I sell off my models.
My advice if you are anxious... take a big swig of a stiff drink, and give the codex 6 months. Granted... we will seem to lose ground to the other top codecs but they will get it when it is their turn.
I find it ironic that the people complaining about the thread being bumped to the top with no news are posting in the thread, doing that exact thing to each other.
I got snowed in, otherwise I would have the upcoming WD on hand. That last page tends to have a little blurb that gives a hint on what is coming up. So far no one has leaked that yet.
Honestly, after how the codex have all become bland shadows of their former selves, how can you be excited to get your new codex.
Here is a rumor:
popular units and items like MSS and wraiths will be over nerfed heavy handidly. Other things will be buffed in such a way that the whole codex will be bland. I have it on good authority, that authority being all the past codex since 7th hit.
I disagree about this entire "blandification" theory. The armies have as much character as they always have. You don't need a bazillion personalized special rules for the army to have flavor.
I'm not worried about nerfs. I don't rely on MSS, Tesla snapshots, or CCBs to begin with.
I'm fact, everything I've seen from Shield of Baal looks so nasty, I'm expecting a buff. We'll see. Nerf, buff, or status quo, I just want the damned book to come out already!
via Danboy Jack in the Faeit 212 Comment sections
Necron rumors I heard are pretty dire, shop worker who is a close friend of mine got this info while he was up hq for some training purposes last week.
Gauss will now on a roll of a six be double strength against vehicles so rifles str8, the immortal ones str 10 instead of auto glancing.
the stand back up rule is gone now all necrons have a 5+ invuln save made better by a res orb by +1 on troops and +2 on characters because they have removed the 3+ invuln item res orbs 5pts dearer.
He also saw a change/notes for both flayed ones and scarabs but didn't have time to read them properly other than scarabs do two things on a 5 and a 6 now. I'm guessing an armour point gone on only a 5 now and maybe a glance on a 6? That's speculation on my part.
Please i'm just repeating what i was told today he's a bit of a joker my mate but he really was up there last week as some other guy was covering the shop.
This looks like utter bullwank,
Why does anyone bother listening to this guy anymore?
When was the last time he actually reported something true? (that hadn't already been reported by someone else first)
skoffs wrote: This looks like utter bull ,
Why does anyone bother listening to this guy anymore?
When was the last time he actually reported something true? (that hadn't already been reported by someone else first)
Does seem quite salty.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
docdoom77 wrote: I disagree about this entire "blandification" theory. The armies have as much character as they always have. You don't need a bazillion personalized special rules for the army to have flavor.
via Danboy Jack in the Faeit 212 Comment sections
Necron rumors I heard are pretty dire, shop worker who is a close friend of mine got this info while he was up hq for some training purposes last week.
Gauss will now on a roll of a six be double strength against vehicles so rifles str8, the immortal ones str 10 instead of auto glancing.
the stand back up rule is gone now all necrons have a 5+ invuln save made better by a res orb by +1 on troops and +2 on characters because they have removed the 3+ invuln item res orbs 5pts dearer.
He also saw a change/notes for both flayed ones and scarabs but didn't have time to read them properly other than scarabs do two things on a 5 and a 6 now. I'm guessing an armour point gone on only a 5 now and maybe a glance on a 6? That's speculation on my part.
Please i'm just repeating what i was told today he's a bit of a joker my mate but he really was up there last week as some other guy was covering the shop.
The gauss change sounds pretty powerful. It basically means that on a roll of a 6, the heavy gauss cannon can kill any vehicle.
So yeah, probably false.
Orock wrote: Honestly, after how the codex have all become bland shadows of their former selves, how can you be excited to get your new codex.
Space Wolves - Added Space Santa and Flying Cold Blasting Land Raider.
Orks - New Mek gunz, Stompa, Gorkanaught/morkanaught
Grey Knights - Moved non GK out of GK codex, took aways super bullets, DKs can 30" move, Rule the Psychic Phase
Dark Eldar - Nerfed Witches and axed personalities without models, everything else is pretty much better than it was.
Blood Angels - Moved Assault troops back to FA, point reductions making everything better, added Heavy Flamers, Grav Guns, +1S +1I on the charge
Umm yeah, I don't know what you are talking about.
Blandification was going from 2E to 3E
to be fair the new ork codex is a bit naff and many players are still relying on IA to supplement their army. imo they need a new supplement for maybe kult of speed or bad moons, just something to open p more options for them than what they have.
via Danboy Jack in the Faeit 212 Comment sections
Necron rumors I heard are pretty dire, shop worker who is a close friend of mine got this info while he was up hq for some training purposes last week.
Gauss will now on a roll of a six be double strength against vehicles so rifles str8, the immortal ones str 10 instead of auto glancing.
the stand back up rule is gone now all necrons have a 5+ invuln save made better by a res orb by +1 on troops and +2 on characters because they have removed the 3+ invuln item res orbs 5pts dearer.
He also saw a change/notes for both flayed ones and scarabs but didn't have time to read them properly other than scarabs do two things on a 5 and a 6 now. I'm guessing an armour point gone on only a 5 now and maybe a glance on a 6? That's speculation on my part.
Please i'm just repeating what i was told today he's a bit of a joker my mate but he really was up there last week as some other guy was covering the shop.
Added to OP but Natfka and BoLS do make me laugh with the rumours. Worth a read just for the Lolz.
Keep checking Lords of Wargaming for some concrete rumours but nothing so far.....
I wouldn't take it with salt.
If Naftka is the first source, that means it is probably not true.
That guy posts everything people mail him! His "Blood Angel Rumours" were stuff we made up in this forum.
-The Gauss-change seems really strong, allowing us to penetrate most vehicles in game with a simple Necron Warrior.
-Reanimation Protocol removed seems really stupid, especially when Exterminatus gave us a Detachment that allows re-rolls.
And really.. a 4++ on a blob of 20 Warriors? That is ridiculously overpowered.
So basically it's Naftka saying that this guy said his friend saw something during a training.
I give him a 2/10 for effort.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212 I just saw this latest post about Necrons and it’s not true at all. I don’t know where this guy came up with his stuff but I suspect the source is just making it up.
I should start by confirming that tesla is changing like everyone has been saying. Look to spacewolves to see how your 6’s don’t work on snap firing.
The first new thing is a new MC that the Necrons are getting called the Necromancer. Str 6 tough 7 like a bigger destroyer lord. It’s a jump character but does so through phasing in and out of reality(dimensional door is the rule, similar to how deathmarks work). The Str 6 is unmodified, so when you use it with a warscythe it gets bumped up to 8. I don’t know how many wounds it has but I hear it has a resurrection orb effect for everything within 12 inches of it kinda like the rules in death from the skies on the flyers.
The second unit I heard about is a new monolith, finally. The new one is like a mix of the super heavy obelisk and the regular monolith. It’s able to fire its ordnance weapon AND shoot its side weapons at full ballistic skill but ONLY at flyers, FMCs, skimmers, and jetbikes.
Other than that still the same, but one big rule shift is that melta doesn’t work against living metal anymore… again. So Necrons rejoice in your renewed durability.
one source says no Reanmation protocal....another says "better codex". Maybe this is all news that is meant to keep everyones hopes up until actual pictures/rumors appear.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
I just saw this latest post about Necrons and it’s not true at all. I don’t know where this guy came up with his stuff but I suspect the source is just making it up.
I should start by confirming that tesla is changing like everyone has been saying. Look
to spacewolves to see how your 6’s don’t work on snap firing.
The first new thing is a new MC that the Necrons are getting called the Necromancer. Str 6
tough 7 like a bigger destroyer lord. It’s a jump character but does so through phasing in and out of reality(dimensional door is the rule, similar to how deathmarks work). The Str 6 is unmodified, so when you use it with a warscythe it gets bumped up to 8. I don’t know how many wounds it has but I hear it has a resurrection orb effect for everything within 12 inches of it kinda like the rules in death from the skies on the flyers.
The second
unit I heard about is a new monolith, finally. The new one is like a mix of the
super heavy obelisk and the regular monolith. It’s able to fire its ordnance
weapon AND shoot its side weapons at full ballistic skill but ONLY at flyers,
FMCs, skimmers, and jetbikes.
Other than that still the same, but one big rule shift is that melta doesn’t work against living metal anymore… again. So Necrons rejoice in your renewed durability.
Salty salt salt.
I think there has been a "Necromancer" rumor for every Necron release for a while...
I would like those rumors to be true though. Living Metal rejecting Melta double pen? That would be awesome!
docdoom77 wrote: I disagree about this entire "blandification" theory. The armies have as much character as they always have. You don't need a bazillion personalized special rules for the army to have flavor.
I agree, I may be in the minority, but I find 7th much better than 6th and my favorite edition so far. I find that getting rid of the personalized rules does simplify the codex, but I think it makes it easier to play and play against and it still has individual wargear or relics to make unique characters. I think if all codexes go this way it will be a much more even playing field. Honestly if necrons get the same treatment as the last few codices I think it will be a fair and playable codex. CSM and DA are pretty much fine. Psychic adjustments have made daemons I think fair. If you fix Tau, Eldar and SM I think we would all be close as GW possible to equal footing. However I am guessing the next few codices after Necrons are not going to be fixes but additons like Harlequins and Adeptus Mechanicus. Cheers all.
I don't believe those Necron rumors. Changing Reanimation Protocols to an invulnerable save makes no sense, and would be a huge nerf that isn't needed. The Change to Gauss would actually be cool. It would give at reason for Immortals to field Gauss over Tesla.
to be fair the new ork codex is a bit naff and many players are still relying on IA to supplement their army.
I am going to have to disagree with you on both points.
While the new codex forced people to change what they were playing, they are stronger now. Back when the codex dropped, changes were all math hammered to prove it.
Nob Bikers Nerfed, but Warbikers more effective for the same amount of points.
Can't take Mega Armroed Nobz as a troops choice, but you can take a formation where you field nothing but nobz in mega armor in trukks.
Meg Gunz are cheap and effective, added anti air that they didn't previously have.
Tankbustas greatly improved.
The IA supplementation may be a local Meta thing. I haven't seen anything from IA used in Ork armies, even in online batreps and tournament discussions
imo they need a new supplement for maybe kult of speed or bad moons, just something to open p more options for them than what they have.
via Danboy Jack in the Faeit 212 Comment sections
Necron rumors I heard are pretty dire, shop worker who is a close friend of mine got this info while he was up hq for some training purposes last week.
Gauss will now on a roll of a six be double strength against vehicles so rifles str8, the immortal ones str 10 instead of auto glancing.
the stand back up rule is gone now all necrons have a 5+ invuln save made better by a res orb by +1 on troops and +2 on characters because they have removed the 3+ invuln item res orbs 5pts dearer.
He also saw a change/notes for both flayed ones and scarabs but didn't have time to read them properly other than scarabs do two things on a 5 and a 6 now. I'm guessing an armour point gone on only a 5 now and maybe a glance on a 6? That's speculation on my part.
Please i'm just repeating what i was told today he's a bit of a joker my mate but he really was up there last week as some other guy was covering the shop.
I find these fake rumors quite hilarious. I love how he's all like "dire news", especially when the tesla rule he's describing is an absurd buff that would be considered cheesy as all hell.
The inv save on Necrons would also be a massive buff. The potential for a massive T4 troop blob, with 4++, re-rolling 1's, armed with guns that (still) causes glances to Land Raiders and penetrates everything else and simply invalidate grav/plasma/melta weapons as well as huge blast weapons with AP1 - 4, that were otherwise perfectly suited to deal with Necron warriors, is quite simply insane.
"Dire news" indeed!
Those rumors sound like bunk. Poor rewrites. As bad as GW is at writing rules, they aren't that bad. What we need is a 1st turn deepstriker from reserves (/looks at Monolith).
Sigvatr wrote: I don't see why. The Vindicare Assasin, for example, the old one, was about the best anti-vehicle unit out there and just killed everything with a single shot. Yet it was a single infantry model. Should it have been a giant MC?
I don't see how model size is supposed to reflect a model's actual strength on the battlefield. By the same logic, a C'Tan shard should be the size of a regular infantry unit, Necron Destroyers should be the size of Tau Drones, Sentry Pylons should be the size of regular Pylons etc. etc.
"Size equals strength" is a dead end.
I'm pretty sure the reason why only the old vindicare has that rule but the rule one does not is because what everyone's complaining about.
If you can hide something that can kill large units behind most normal cover, that is an OP unit.
via Danboy Jack in the Faeit 212 Comment sections
Necron rumors I heard are pretty dire, shop worker who is a close friend of mine got this info while he was up hq for some training purposes last week.
Gauss will now on a roll of a six be double strength against vehicles so rifles str8, the immortal ones str 10 instead of auto glancing.
the stand back up rule is gone now all necrons have a 5+ invuln save made better by a res orb by +1 on troops and +2 on characters because they have removed the 3+ invuln item res orbs 5pts dearer.
He also saw a change/notes for both flayed ones and scarabs but didn't have time to read them properly other than scarabs do two things on a 5 and a 6 now. I'm guessing an armour point gone on only a 5 now and maybe a glance on a 6? That's speculation on my part.
Please i'm just repeating what i was told today he's a bit of a joker my mate but he really was up there last week as some other guy was covering the shop.
I find these fake rumors quite hilarious. I love how he's all like "dire news", especially when the tesla rule he's describing is an absurd buff that would be considered cheesy as all hell.
The inv save on Necrons would also be a massive buff. The potential for a massive T4 troop blob, with 4++, re-rolling 1's, armed with guns that (still) causes glances to Land Raiders and penetrates everything else and simply invalidate grav/plasma/melta weapons as well as huge blast weapons with AP1 - 4, that were otherwise perfectly suited to deal with Necron warriors, is quite simply insane.
"Dire news" indeed!
If you can still take 30 strong warrior blobs this is a buff! Who cares about the glancing rule, if this is true I'm expanding my small necron force.
NecronLord3 wrote: Yes that sounds awesome up until you lose a round of assault and the entire squad is swept with ain't. 2. Yippee!
Oh, yeah. I forgot how 6-7th edition is filled with CC armies, riddled with units that effortlessly kills T4, WS4, 4++, re-rolling 1's (with formation).
NecronLord3 wrote: Yes that sounds awesome up until you lose a round of assault and the entire squad is swept with ain't. 2. Yippee!
Oh, yeah. I forgot how 6-7th edition is filled with CC armies, riddled with units that effortlessly kills T4, WS4, 4++, re-rolling 1's (with formation).
I'm assuming the new Blood Angels formation is news to you? An unaugmented daemon prince would do this soundly, or a Hive Tyrant, of which your opponent could have 5 of each those.
I'm assuming the new Blood Angels formation is news to you?
Technically speaking, they're news to everyone. What formation are you referring to? The one that needs to pay a tax of 800+ points and need to position every unit that wish to DS within 12" of 2/3 of those flying shoeboxes? How many good CC units does that army have, after paying HQ+troops+formation tax? Yeah, sure sounds like a scary army to me.
An unaugmented daemon prince would do this soundly
He can effortlessly cleave through a squad that has a 4++ inv that re-rolls 1's? No he couldn't. I suggest you read my post again. My example was assuming if those fake rumors were true. Your mind seem to either be stuck on the current RP, that or you simply don't understand what an inv save means (hint: guess why smash no longer is effective when inv saves comes to play).
or a Hive Tyrant, of which your opponent could have 5 of each those.
And if he happens to have 5 of them, I'll bet you my right testicle that they all have wings and will be busy drowning you in shots, rather than ineffectively fighting you on the ground and if he decides to land them in order to fight you, you're either badly losing or badly winning.
The "Formation" Is the Mephrit Dynasty Cohort Detachment (CAD replacement) that must take 3 troops instead of 2 and loses Objective Secured to get re-roll 1s for Reanimation Protocol (with better RP why not take more troops anyways) and can re-roll Mephrit Dynasty Warlord Traits. There is no tax for the detachment, they just can't take Tesseract Vaults.
I'm assuming the new Blood Angels formation is news to you?
Technically speaking, they're news to everyone. What formation are you referring to? The one that needs to pay a tax of 800+ points and need to position every unit that wish to DS within 12" of 2/3 of those flying shoeboxes? How many good CC units does that army have, after paying HQ+troops+formation tax? Yeah, sure sounds like a scary army to me.
An unaugmented daemon prince would do this soundly
He can effortlessly cleave through a squad that has a 4++ inv that re-rolls 1's? No he couldn't. I suggest you read my post again. My example was assuming if those fake rumors were true. Your mind seem to either be stuck on the current RP, that or you simply don't understand what an inv save means (hint: guess why smash no longer is effective when inv saves comes to play).
or a Hive Tyrant, of which your opponent could have 5 of each those.
And if he happens to have 5 of them, I'll bet you my right testicle that they all have wings and will be busy drowning you in shots, rather than ineffectively fighting you on the ground and if he decides to land them in order to fight you, you're either badly losing or badly winning.
1. Terrible list.
2. Little to nowhere is 3 CAD ever allowed.
2. The actual lists that features 5 tyrants is 1 CAD with 2 flyrants + sky blight
The approx. 900 points of blood angels is nothing in an 1850 game when you have another 900 points of deep striking terminators, assault marines, sanguinary guard etc.
It only takes any one of those flying MCs(which don't even have to fly against Necrons) to win a combat buy 2-3 wounds to make it enough to win a combat and cause the unit to flee, from which you will be swept. 4++ rerolling ones is still a 50% failure on the second roll. I run daemons as well as Necrons and a Tzeentch loves to roll 2a when you have a 3++ save rerolling ones. Good luck if you think it's going to win you games, I know it won't.
Interesting lists... Assuming the Daemons and Tyrants all have assault weapons, per the assertion above, how prevelant and effective are these lists in the current meta?
Tokhuah wrote: Interesting lists... Assuming the Daemons and Tyrants all have assault weapons, per the assertion above, how prevelant and effective are these lists in the current meta?
I can only offer I you info regarding Tyranids-
All Tyranid weapons are assault weapons, so no issue there. As for how prevalent it is you need to check the Tournament discussions and battle reports subforums. The first page of the Tyranid Tactics thread in the Tactics subforum has a few battle reports using a Pentyrant list by jy2. The majority of players seem to agree that it's too cheesy to bring to a tournament- it's no fun facing that much firepower.
And a much simpler list is Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment(3 Tyrants) with a codex Tyranids CAD(2 Tyrants).
The next White Dwarf should leak soon right? Will it be the one to preview Necrons, or is that next week's?
Related, but not specific to Necrons - Anyone know why Lords of War Gaming have been all quiet since the new year? They've had such a solid track record and now silent..
Thokt wrote: Related, but not specific to Necrons - Anyone know why Lords of War Gaming have been all quiet since the new year? They've had such a solid track record and now silent..
What's with the Reanimation Protocols is going to be invulnerable saves or Feel No Pain Saves? Is this the 5th edition Necron codex rumours all over again? We had this last time and it never happenend. I am sure it will not happen this time either. That is one of the things that make Necrons unique.
Take RP away may as well take ATKNF from SM then. Won't happen.
I find it a tad silly that we're less than 3 weeks from the supposed release date and these are the only rumors we have. I'd expect some sort of substantial leak or something by this point, maybe everyone's still in holiday mode.
Tokhuah wrote: Interesting lists... Assuming the Daemons and Tyrants all have assault weapons, per the assertion above, how prevelant and effective are these lists in the current meta?
Daemons run almost no guns, period. You shoot in the Psychic phase only, and use the shooting phase to move again(unless you're nurgle)
Unless GW has a handle on who and where the 'real' leaks are coming from and they are managing the Necron information to avoid impacting their End Times sales.
Either that or there are almost no new models as most rumors suggest and just a book to write.
Fewer people with information to leak so fewer ways to get it out to us.
Could be that the 23rd WD will have already described most of the big changes before anyone gets their hands on the codex and leaks.
At least, I sincerely hope it does.
Actually, here's to hoping the Necrons are the focus of both the 23rd and the 6th WDs on the assumption that means there's more to discuss.
I was checking the status of the Necron rumors over on Spikey Bits this morning, and they still put Necrons at the end of January, but possibly even more intersting, they are also calling for a May release of Sisters.
This has been bugging me for a while, but isn't Natfka just an, for lack of a better word, aggregator? I mean, the site just displays news/rumours from various locations. It's not as they're generating the rumours themselves.
I mean, we don't question petre's reliability because he reports on rumour-mongers that have proven to be wrong.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This has been bugging me for a while, but isn't Natfka just an, for lack of a better word, aggregator? I mean, the site just displays news/rumours from various locations. It's not as they're generating the rumours themselves.
I mean, we don't question petre's reliability because he reports on rumour-mongers that have proven to be wrong.
No.
Natfka is both an aggregator and a rumor monger.
Aggregator: He collects rumors from various other sites of other rumor mongers (Darnok on Warseer, Harry, Steve the Warboss, BOLS, etc) and posts them on his blog.
Rumor Monger: He has anonymous sources which he posts first hand to his blog that no one else has. This is identical to when Darnok says he got information from 'little birdies' or Harry says 'sources' or BOLS 'says medium accuracy source'. We have no way to distinguish between Darnok and his birdies, Harry and his sources or Natfka and his 'anonymous source from faeit 212'.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This has been bugging me for a while, but isn't Natfka just an, for lack of a better word, aggregator? I mean, the site just displays news/rumours from various locations. It's not as they're generating the rumours themselves.
I mean, we don't question petre's reliability because he reports on rumour-mongers that have proven to be wrong.
No.
Natfka is both an aggregator and a rumor monger.
Aggregator: He collects rumors from various other sites of other rumor mongers (Darnok on Warseer, Harry, Steve the Warboss, BOLS, etc) and posts them on his blog.
Rumor Monger: He has anonymous sources which he posts first hand to his blog that no one else has. This is identical to when Darnok says he got information from 'little birdies' or Harry says 'sources' or BOLS 'says medium accuracy source'. We have no way to distinguish between Darnok and his birdies, Harry and his sources or Natfka and his 'anonymous source from faeit 212'.
Also, pretre. Not petre.
As many times as people get your name wrong you should just go ahead and change your avatar.
Somewhere, an internet troll is laughing hard enough to fall out his chair every time we get excited about the "rumors" he just made up and posted.
I'm calling it now, Codex Demiurg, Fall 2015. The codex is already done. They have a superheavy mining vehicle, 3 combi plastic kits that make 2 unit choices each, and jet bikes.
That is best thing about 40K. Humans, being human, think they are the heroes of the story. The logistics of running an empire so vast have lead to a bureaucracy incapable of empathy. Individual humans no longer mean anything in comparison. Mankind is often the greatest threat to itself in the 40K universe, and is incapable of understanding that situation.
Burn the witch.
Purge the mutant.
Kill the Alien.
Suffer not the traitor.
The Imperium of Man is a commentary on how bad things can get when people blindly follow.
1. Terrible list.
2. Little to nowhere is 3 CAD ever allowed.
2. The actual lists that features 5 tyrants is 1 CAD with 2 flyrants + sky blight
1. You wrote 2 twice.
2. Your third point is dead wrong which is funny considering how condescending you came off in that post. The actual list is Hive Fleet Leviathan from Shield of Baal (3 Hqs / 3 Troops) + a normal CAD (2 Hqs / 2 Troops). Skyblight adds 1 Flyrant when used...
3. How annoying is it when some one retorts in this format?
1. Terrible list.
2. Little to nowhere is 3 CAD ever allowed.
2. The actual lists that features 5 tyrants is 1 CAD with 2 flyrants + sky blight
1. You wrote 2 twice.
2. Your third point is dead wrong which is funny considering how condescending you came off in that post. The actual list is Hive Fleet Leviathan from Shield of Baal (3 Hqs / 3 Troops) + a normal CAD (2 Hqs / 2 Troops). Skyblight adds 1 Flyrant when used...
3. How annoying is it when some one retorts in this format?
1. This thread now has too many lists.
2. There's nothing wrong with writing 2 twice.
2. See?
DaKKaLAnce wrote: so is this old news? The necron rumours have been very quiet....
Well there is that single Ancient Evil line in white dwarf if you conveniently forget that could apply to about 50% of Games Workshop's armies and Necrons haven't been universally evil in years.
Decent odds it applies, but it's far from the only thing that line could refer to.
Yeah, it's only been the iBook edition on there for some time now.
Another small note is that Destroyers have been listed as Jetbikes for a few weeks now. I don't know if this was a long-existing error or if we'll see them moved to that type in the future.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, it's only been the iBook edition on there for some time now.
Another small note is that Destroyers have been listed as Jetbikes for a few weeks now. I don't know if this was a long-existing error or if we'll see them moved to that type in the future.
That'd be nice. Upped utility, Jink, and Jetbike Destroyer Lord would be a great HQ for 500 point skirmish games.
This would be great if a reasonably costed melee option were available with an overall point reduction to Destroyers and Heavy's. It would also be nice if the vehicle portion of the model did not look like the rear end of a 1968 VW Bug.
1. Necrons, necrons!
10. We don't need Tyranid-lists.
11. Why are we complaining about numbers?
100. C'mon, let's go binary on them.
101. We need more rumours that are not from Natfka.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, it's only been the iBook edition on there for some time now.
Another small note is that Destroyers have been listed as Jetbikes for a few weeks now. I don't know if this was a long-existing error or if we'll see them moved to that type in the future.
This isn't true. I have the iBook and it's updated and since 5th edition they have always been jump infantry.
Kangodo wrote: 1. Necrons, necrons!
10. We don't need Tyranid-lists.
11. Why are we complaining about numbers?
100. C'mon, let's go binary on them.
101. We need more rumours that are not from Natfka.
Requizen wrote: Yeah, it's only been the iBook edition on there for some time now.
Another small note is that Destroyers have been listed as Jetbikes for a few weeks now. I don't know if this was a long-existing error or if we'll see them moved to that type in the future.
This isn't true. I have the iBook and it's updated and since 5th edition they have always been jump infantry.
I meant that the Destroyer pack is listed as Jetbike on the Webstore. If you go to the GW store, go to Necrons, and then under "Miniature Type" choose "Bikes and Jetbikes", the options that show up are Tomb Blades and Destroyers.
As I said, this could be an error, or it could be a sign of things to come.
Tokhuah wrote: This would be great if a reasonably costed melee option were available with an overall point reduction to Destroyers and Heavy's. It would also be nice if the vehicle portion of the model did not look like the rear end of a 1968 VW Bug.
I like the look of Destroyers, one of the more iconic Necron models.
More customisable Destroyers absolutely would fit their body modification obsessed death cult fluff better though. Telsa Cannons! Particle Beamers! One of those Exile things! Warscythe Bayonets! A Shooty option for the Lord so he actually has reason to hang with his cult subordinates!
But yeah, I'd settle for them just being a quarter to a third cheaper.
Tokhuah wrote: This would be great if a reasonably costed melee option were available with an overall point reduction to Destroyers and Heavy's. It would also be nice if the vehicle portion of the model did not look like the rear end of a 1968 VW Bug.
I like the look of Destroyers, one of the more iconic Necron models.
More customisable Destroyers absolutely would fit their body modification obsessed death cult fluff better though. Telsa Cannons! Particle Beamers! One of those Exile things! Warscythe Bayonets! A Shooty option for the Lord so he actually has reason to hang with his cult subordinates!
But yeah, I'd settle for them just being a quarter to a third cheaper.
^ This. Murder machines need more toys to murder with.
Also, they need two wounds. I never understood how such a big model could only have 1 wound...
Yeah. Destroyers perfectly fit to the Necron fluff and the models are still good, but they were so overpriced since 5th, it's not even funny. Worse, they were one of the few AP2 weapons Necron had.
Kangodo wrote: 1. Necrons, necrons!
10. We don't need Tyranid-lists.
11. Why are we complaining about numbers?
100. C'mon, let's go binary on them.
101. We need more rumours that are not from Natfka.
1. Terrible list.
2. Little to nowhere is 3 CAD ever allowed.
2. The actual lists that features 5 tyrants is 1 CAD with 2 flyrants + sky blight
1. You wrote 2 twice.
2. Your third point is dead wrong which is funny considering how condescending you came off in that post. The actual list is Hive Fleet Leviathan from Shield of Baal (3 Hqs / 3 Troops) + a normal CAD (2 Hqs / 2 Troops). Skyblight adds 1 Flyrant when used...
3. How annoying is it when some one retorts in this format?
1. Oh noes! A minor mistake surely dismisses my entire point (it didn't).
2. Oh no, i was only 99% correct!
3. Not annoying for me, but I'm sure you have a point somewhere?
Considering that the Mephrit Dynasty Force Org Chart is a nice upgrade, what do you think they will do for the main codex ?
-Rumors of Resurrection Protocols being dropped for Feel No Pain are false.
-Considering that any reasonably sized Necron list I run meets the Mephrit Restrictions why would I not always use this for the Benefits? This makes me wonder what will be in the Codex to encourage alternate lists and playstyles.
-Rumors of Resurrection Protocols being dropped for Feel No .
For everyone who keeps saying this.
If we were getting FnP, wouldn't it be called FnP instead of Reanimation protocols as listed under the new Mephret Dynasty command benefit and the new Monolith formation? Deathstorm and that WD just came out. They wouldn't keep coining it Reanimation if they wanted to use a generic USR. It would be +1 to FnP rolls, just like it's named FnP in every other codex and supplement.
Is this flying over everybody's head but me? Or is this just a troll?
The Mephrit Dynasy looses Obj Secured while not gaining some equally powerful benefit.
Being able to re-roll 1s on RP isn't that powerful or beneficial and what you give up for it is.
Unless I am mistaken, it raises RP from 33% (5+) to 38.6%(.33 + .17*.33= 38.6%) or around a 5% boost to RP to give up Obj Sec.
I have to say that the Relics and the burning one formation appear great without question.
I suppose if you conjoin relics, command benefits, warlord traits and formations (specifically the conclave of the burning one formation with the God shackle), I agree on the whole that a Mephrit Dynasty has a lot going for it.
Just not the pro/cons of the command benefits that were lost/gained.
Gunther wrote: The Mephrit Dynasy looses Obj Secured while not gaining some equally powerful benefit.
Being able to re-roll 1s on RP isn't that powerful or beneficial and what you give up for it is.
Unless I am mistaken, it raises RP from 33% (5+) to 38.6%(.33 + .17*.33= 38.6%) or around a 5% boost to RP to give up Obj Sec.
I have to say that the Relics and the burning one formation appear great without question.
I suppose if you conjoin relics, command benefits, warlord traits and formations (specifically the conclave of the burning one formation with the God shackle), I agree on the whole that a Mephrit Dynasty has a lot going for it.
Just not the pro/cons of the command benefits that were lost/gained.
Nyghoma wrote: If we were getting FnP, wouldn't it be called FnP instead of Reanimation protocols as listed under the new Mephret Dynasty command benefit and the new Monolith formation? Deathstorm and that WD just came out. They wouldn't keep coining it Reanimation if they wanted to use a generic USR. It would be +1 to FnP rolls, just like it's named FnP in every other codex and supplement.
I don't think GW has any sort of track record to expect that they would anticipate that sort of change. Lots of things have come out only to be immediately changed or reprinted thereafter. On this one, I even think that's basically justified: With the books coming out almost a quarter year or more before the codex, that's too much lead time to incorporate that kind of change. It would be super awkward to address that in the formation rules and bridge between codex changes like that.
-Rumors of Resurrection Protocols being dropped for Feel No .
For everyone who keeps saying this.
If we were getting FnP, wouldn't it be called FnP instead of Reanimation protocols as listed under the new Mephret Dynasty command benefit and the new Monolith formation? Deathstorm and that WD just came out. They wouldn't keep coining it Reanimation if they wanted to use a generic USR. It would be +1 to FnP rolls, just like it's named FnP in every other codex and supplement.
Is this flying over everybody's head but me? Or is this just a troll?
If it does happen, it will likely be some altered form of FnP, such as "Reanimation Protocals grant models with this rule FnP as long as one other model of the same type remains in the unit". It wouldn't be the first time GW has taken a USR and added a stipulation and called it a new special rule.
-Rumors of Resurrection Protocols being dropped for Feel No .
For everyone who keeps saying this.
If we were getting FnP, wouldn't it be called FnP instead of Reanimation protocols as listed under the new Mephret Dynasty command benefit and the new Monolith formation? Deathstorm and that WD just came out. They wouldn't keep coining it Reanimation if they wanted to use a generic USR. It would be +1 to FnP rolls, just like it's named FnP in every other codex and supplement.
Is this flying over everybody's head but me? Or is this just a troll?
Since you edited my post to make it seem like I was saying the opposite of what I wrote are you trolling?
Back on topic, maybe we will have a reason to play with some of the name HQ's in the new Codex. To that end, can someone give Anykr a Res Orb please?!
DaKKaLAnce wrote: so is this old news? The necron rumours have been very quiet....
Well there is that single Ancient Evil line in white dwarf if you conveniently forget that could apply to about 50% of Games Workshop's armies and Necrons haven't been universally evil in years.
Decent odds it applies, but it's far from the only thing that line could refer to.
Consider the fact it would have been just as easy to scan and post the actual Necron article, if it existed, from that issue instead of a line that most likely applies to Warhammer undead.
Gunther wrote: The Mephrit Dynasy looses Obj Secured while not gaining some equally powerful benefit.
Being able to re-roll 1s on RP isn't that powerful or beneficial and what you give up for it is.
Unless I am mistaken, it raises RP from 33% (5+) to 38.6%(.33 + .17*.33= 38.6%) or around a 5% boost to RP to give up Obj Sec.
Add in a Res Orb +1 to make it 4+ (50%), reroll the 1's 58.5% (.5 + .17*.5=58.5%) for a 8.5% boost.
Obsec is more valuable when you play MSU.
Let my opponent try to clear my 20 Necron Warrior unit, who is bubble wrapping the objective, when 38.6-58.5% get back up at the end of the phase, just to get close enough to contest the objective with his Obsec unit.
There is also often overlooked value of the psychological aspect of reanimation protocol has demoralizing your opponent. It's quite annoying to line up a shot, roll to hit, roll to wound, watch you fail saves, and then a minute later you roll and undo whatever he accomplished. Now, to add further insult to injury, you go, oh wait, I get to reroll those 1's.
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