Sure, this new ork team looks like slower lizardmen, but the Black Orks actually are harder to neutralize by moving a lineman next to them. They also have skills from the start, on the opposite to saurus, and the troll can throw goblins to the opposite of lizardmen.
I think you can do some tricks with them, and I won't say they're worse right now.
Also, the goblins have thick skull.
Baxx wrote: I'm curious to know, did anyone want a new edition? And if yes, why?
We have 31 teams already, now GW is piling on 2 more. Who wants more teams? How many teams is enough?
There are never enough teams. What's the difference between a supported game and one that is left to fans is that the supported game is...supported. As long as GW puts new stuff, it just means the game keeps being supported.
As for who wants new rules...I'd say new players.
Grumpy veterans will always see change as a bad thing, after all. They are not the target of a new edition.
Sarouan wrote: Sure, this new ork team looks like slower lizardmen, but the Black Orks actually are harder to neutralize by moving a lineman next to them. They also have skills from the start, on the opposite to saurus, and the troll can throw goblins to the opposite of lizardmen.
I think you can do some tricks with them, and I won't say they're worse right now.
Also, the goblins have thick skull.
Baxx wrote: I'm curious to know, did anyone want a new edition? And if yes, why?
We have 31 teams already, now GW is piling on 2 more. Who wants more teams? How many teams is enough?
There are never enough teams. What's the difference between a supported game and one that is left to fans is that the supported game is...supported. As long as GW puts new stuff, it just means the game keeps being supported.
As for who wants new rules...I'd say new players.
Grumpy veterans will always see change as a bad thing, after all. They are not the target of a new edition.
Before quickly labeling dissenters as "grumpy veterans," perhaps those that are so eager to accept this new edition should consider that many of these "grumpy veterans" have been around the block a few times with GW's games and business model and have learned to be wary of the promises of a "better" "perfected" new ruleset. Change for the sake of change is questionable at best, but change primarily for the purpose of profiting is often worse.
I read in another post that one of the reasons GW's games will never achieve "classic" status is because GW continuously releases new editions of its rulesets to sell new versions and models instead of truly attempting to optimize/improve one ruleset for each game. I tend to agree with that, and IMO Blood Bowl was one of GW's games that really approached "classic" status, primarily due to GW abandoning it for many years and the community optimizing the rules and team rosters into a set that has been recognized worldwide as the standard and utilized successfully from home games to local clubs to grand tournaments. Call me a leary, skeptical, or grumpy veteran, but I've been around long enough to realize that this new edition could likely lead to a splintering of the BB fanbase and further disillusionment of GW's business practices by BB fans.
Bottom line: Look, I get it, GW is a company focused on making money and this is how their business model operates. That doesn't mean that I am willing to fork over my money to them for "improved" rulesets that often just tinker a few rules for the sake of change and increased sales. Personally, I was very happy with the state BB was in and looked forward to new models of teams that had not yet been released for BB2016 - I was happy with the ruleset and had no desire for an update. Unfortunately to some, including me, GW's reset of the game will cause me to think twice about purchasing products for this new version for fear they will be made obsolete in a few years time, as well as participating in any "official" "supported" tournaments in the future as I am skeptical of GW's ability to balance and truly improve their games.
There are never enough teams. What's the difference between a supported game and one that is left to fans is that the supported game is...supported. As long as GW puts new stuff, it just means the game keeps being supported.
As for who wants new rules...I'd say new players.
Grumpy veterans will always see change as a bad thing, after all. They are not the target of a new edition.
We got 33 teams. Maybe 10 more teams would be good? 20 more teams? 100 more teams? Same with special play cards. We got almost 200. Maybe 100 extra would make it better? 1000 cards? We got more than 100 star players. How many is enough? Would 200 star players be better?
Why would new players want BB2020 instead of BB2016? They got no reference point.
I like the look of the new orcs, more so than the last version (which I thought were ok). Goblins look unimpressive but I was never a big goblin user anyway, though I did really like the metal goblins from the BB2 era.
I wasn’t exactly banging on GW’s door demanding a new edition but having read through the leaks so far I’m liking what I see. More variety in Human teams (regular humans at that, with the addition of Halflings) and a very interesting variant in the Noble team which would seem to play more like a Rugby team than a Gridiron team which is appropriate given they’re nobles and attendant minor toffs.
Equally the Blorc team and its gobbos that can take a beating are going to make for an interesting challenge.
Mind you a lot of this could have been done without an edition change except for the fifth stat. But as I examine it more and see what they’re doing with it, the more I like it. I’m in.
If the rumors I have read are true, some of the previously-recognized teams will be cut and the book will not include Amazons as one example. If such is the case, and GW plans on adding these teams later as "supplements" (Almanacs, Death Zones, etc.), then they will definitely not get my support and money for this new edition. They need to go all-in with a complete rulebook this time and not attempt to drip-feed extra teams and rules as their sculpting department takes the needed time to create new models. Give us the complete teams and rules, even if there are no new official GW models yet.
Gnarlly wrote: If the rumors I have read are true, some of the previously-recognized teams will be cut and the book will not include Amazons as one example. If such is the case, and GW plans on adding these teams later as "supplements" (Almanacs, Death Zones, etc.), then they will definitely not get my support and money for this new edition. They need to go all-in with a complete rulebook this time and not attempt to drip-feed extra teams and rules as their sculpting department takes the needed time to create new models. Give us the complete teams and rules, even if there are no new official GW models yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if the new rulebook includes all the teams that have had Spikes/miniature releases and then maybe a page 'team of legends' for those teams that haven't gone through an update. It'd probably work for the page count available, or GW simply puts a pdf online for those teams. It's fairly certain some of those teams will be amongst the first releases for 2020, considering they don't have miniatures. I can't see them dropping High Elves for example.
So Brawler on the Black Orcs allows you to reroll ONE both down result on your block dice. That and grab on all of them makes them pretty nasty. You can pull a guy behind your lines and let the gobbos step on them.
Why would new players want BB2020 instead of BB2016? They got no reference point.
Exactly ! Which is why when the BB2020 will be available, they will have no reason to be grumpy about the previous editions, since the 2016 edition won't be the one being sold anymore.
That's what's great about being a new player. You take the rules as they are, not as you wished they would be in comparison to previous older rules that you got so used to it they became natural, be it good or bad.
I know Blood Bowl for quite a while as well, I know the rules by heart and indeed, a new edition means to me I will learn new rules. But I won't dismiss GW's choices before reading the full new rules in question. So far, what I have seen makes sense - and just so you know, by reading the leaks, zombies and mummies can actually still do Pass actions, they'll just fumble automatically, that's all. In previous editions, they never throwed the ball during games, anyway. Doesn't mean they can't still pick up the ball and make hands off if needed.
I'm willing to bet the new Black Orc team gets the cheaper bribes like Goblins, as we can see the Halfling Master Chef refers to the Halfling Thimble Cup special rule rather than 'Halfling Teams'.
Underworld might get the same.
I wonder if Star Players will be hired out via special rule attachments as well, Ie; Griff Oberwald can be hired by teams with the Old World Classic special rule, rather than listing teams.
The changes for the Humans are pretty crazy - throwing on a 2+, the ability to go for a OTTD,
Don’t misunderstand me; I like the look of both of these new teams (and human nobility will give me a way to use the Greebo Florentine Kinghts I bought a few years ago to use as Brettonians), but I still would have preferred that they released the remaining existing teams first and I absolutely disagree with the rule changes that will leave older teams in limbo (I.e. not all of the rule changes.)
Gnarlly wrote: If the rumors I have read are true, some of the previously-recognized teams will be cut and the book will not include Amazons as one example. If such is the case, and GW plans on adding these teams later as "supplements" (Almanacs, Death Zones, etc.), then they will definitely not get my support and money for this new edition. They need to go all-in with a complete rulebook this time and not attempt to drip-feed extra teams and rules as their sculpting department takes the needed time to create new models. Give us the complete teams and rules, even if there are no new official GW models yet.
When they keep piling on teams, it's easy to assume they will skip some also. They never cared much for Amazon in BB2016. It was mentioned for some of the (in)famous coaching staff (and a few 're-release' of existing star players), but that's about it. So they may condemn more teams to join Slann, being in a gray area, endorsed and accepted by the players, but completely ignored by GW. Blood Bowl should be fairly 'easy' to complete, but GW insists on adding new teams instead. Looks like we as players are going to add a lot of PA stats for those teams and star players GW can't bother to include.
Adding PA stat gives GW an excellent opportunity to restart the drip-feed they've done since 2016. Except back then, we already had all the teams and star players, so the only real content was the new bonus stuff (with the rare exceptions of some new positionals here and there, some minor skills and a few tweaks in points). This time, they can do their own schedule, and we would have to sit and wait to get the proper stats. I'm expecting a lot of the stuff we already got to be re-released in many books, like (in)famous coaching staff, star players etc.
Why would new players want BB2020 instead of BB2016? They got no reference point.
Exactly ! Which is why when the BB2020 will be available, they will have no reason to be grumpy about the previous editions, since the 2016 edition won't be the one being sold anymore.
That's what's great about being a new player. You take the rules as they are, not as you wished they would be in comparison to previous older rules that you got so used to it they became natural, be it good or bad.
I know Blood Bowl for quite a while as well, I know the rules by heart and indeed, a new edition means to me I will learn new rules. But I won't dismiss GW's choices before reading the full new rules in question. So far, what I have seen makes sense - and just so you know, by reading the leaks, zombies and mummies can actually still do Pass actions, they'll just fumble automatically, that's all. In previous editions, they never throwed the ball during games, anyway. Doesn't mean they can't still pick up the ball and make hands off if needed.
As many have said, the rules changes are not that bad. I played BB before 2016, and was mostly happy with all the new stuff the past 4 years. I liked the new skills, new positionals, even the skaven dagger didn't bother me! I jumped on board completely. But now? Much less enthusiasm, because most if not all the stuff I collected (rules and bonus content) are most likely garbage. I'd like a more stable game, not getting a new edition every 4 years!
I'd like a more stable game, not getting a new edition every 4 years!
But Blood Bowl is stable. The new rules aren't a complete overhaul. And if you think they're garbage without even reading them all, that just means your point of view is already done without getting the facts right.
I understand you're angry GW releases a new edition, but that's what it means to be supported by GW. If you want to go back to the silence before 2016, sure I guess. But the way to get new players is being supported by GW...and there is nothing wrong by putting new rules to change the game a bit. It's getting boring to always use the same tactics ad nauseam, in the end.
I hoped 'supported by GW' would be what we had 2016-2020. How are Grak & Crumbleberry supposed to work without PA stat? What's the PA of my Savage Orc or Amazon team? How will cards work granting a player Pass Block or any other skill that is removed? I guess these types of things can be tweaked, assumed and agreed upon. Curious to see if the spectacular amount of special play cards releases are reset too.
It will be fresh to change the core rules a little, I can agree with that. But we did have a ton of new bonus content, so no shortage in trying new stuff in BB2016. Although very bloaty, not affecting the core rules, there are more than enough to explore: 4 kick-off tables, 17 pitch/weather tables, 6 referees, 18 special balls, 39 different types of inducements (including 9 wizards & 10 infamous coaching staff), 6 sponsorship deals, 24 stadiums, 35 match events, 3 cups, 198 special play cards, 108 star players and 31 (soon to be 33) teams.
I'd like a more stable game, not getting a new edition every 4 years!
But Blood Bowl is stable. The new rules aren't a complete overhaul. And if you think they're garbage without even reading them all, that just means your point of view is already done without getting the facts right.
I understand you're angry GW releases a new edition, but that's what it means to be supported by GW. If you want to go back to the silence before 2016, sure I guess. But the way to get new players is being supported by GW...and there is nothing wrong by putting new rules to change the game a bit. It's getting boring to always use the same tactics ad nauseam, in the end.
It won’t be stable when we have to house rule new stats and core rules into existing teams that GW chose not to update, which then means that anytime you play with someone new there’ll be disagreements over what the rules should be (and a high likelihood that you won’t be able to play that favourite team you’ve had for two decades.)
If this isn't GW leaking these images in some way, then they need to hire whoever is the leaker for their marketing department. Rather than just dump a load of images, they've clearly got images of the whole book and are slowly leaking them out.
Holy crap! Those black orcs are amazing! I need Varag as a snakebite warboss in a BAD WAY! Hell, I would use the other black orc sculpts as either nobs or meganobs. The goblins could easily be gretchin or mek gun crew for my converted gunz.
Really liking these new figures. Wonder if the new edition will have any variant play modes? Used to enjoy the game but it takes so long to play a match.
ImAGeek wrote: The Black Orcs look excellent, and Varag makes the FW one look embarrassing, to be frank.
The FW one makes itself look embarrassing, no help needed!
I will add my name to those wanting multiples of this box or at least the Blorc team. Best arms on a GW model, ever? They make Orruks look amateurish in comparison. I still like the old Orc anatomy with wiry sinews sticking out, but those Hulk Blorcs are fantastic as well. I was expecting Savage Orcs, but instead of nekkid boyz my 40k Orks will get a few nobz mobs now. And the toughest Mek Gunz/Battlewagon crews EVER.
The Necrom team I don't like. The yflesh ygolem is tremendous and I'll probably get the team for that sculpt, but the werewolf is boring and the others too comical. Not in a good way. Can't like all the teams, I guess.
The necromantic team I must have, been waiting for that one this whole time. Would be nice if those came out in time for halloween but I unfortunately see them being Q1 next year after this new box is out.
Sabotage! wrote: Ah man, it would appear there will be no Wight on the Necro team (unless they somehow get a two page spread), still a fun looking team!
Or they are FW upgrades, like dark elf assassins and gobbo special positions.
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ratmkith wrote: Sorry if this was already answered...but would the Nobles and Black Orcs be the teams in the new box set?
This box is a huge upgrade from the previous. The previous had only 2 handicapped teams. This time, you get more fleshed out teams, including 1 big guy and 1 star player per team. The teams in the box is black orcs and imperial nobility yes. Both new teams.
Baxx wrote: This box is a huge upgrade from the previous.
Expect the price to be upgraded, too. ;P
I'm glad people here seem pretty positive the new Black Orks. Personally I'm not a fan and will be sticking with the Gouged Eye models. To me, they just look more dynamic and visually interesting.
Baxx wrote: This box is a huge upgrade from the previous.
Expect the price to be upgraded, too. ;P
I'm glad people here seem pretty positive the new Black Orks. Personally I'm not a fan and will be sticking with the Gouged Eye models. To me, they just look more dynamic and visually interesting.
But, yea, where's the wight for the Necro team?
Quite honestly, I'd probably buy both different undead teams in order to get the max selection of models if I were serious about a Necro team (and I am), because it also gives me a few different zombie and ghoul sculpts. It might be the case that they dropped the Wights from these sprues for that reason. Doesn't bother me particularly, but I know there will be whingers over it.
With 14 or more models a side, including Star players and the big ones, the pitch, and hardcover rulebook this should be more expensive than the AT starter. I think the new 40k starter set (105 GBP) is a good estimate. I hope for 95 though.
Sabotage! wrote: Ah man, it would appear there will be no Wight on the Necro team (unless they somehow get a two page spread), still a fun looking team!
Or they are FW upgrades, like dark elf assassins and gobbo special positions.
That is a possibility, I’m just hoping they didn’t remove the player from the roster. As long as they are there I’m happy (I even have a couple extra from the Undead team as I bought two to fill out a maximum possible 16 man roster- could just paint them in my Necro team scheme).
I always felt like the 2016 bloodbowl box was not a particularly good deal. Even with the recent price increases buying the box is like buying 2 teams and the rules with the other components thrown in. Usually gw box sets are cheaper than buying the plastic individually. It also lacked flair. It was just two decent looking teams, the rules and some standard extras.
The new edition looks much more interesting. The quality of the sculpts is better. You get two star players, two big guys, two coaches/mascots (One of them looks like a squig) and hardback rules. It feels like a better cross section of the full game.
The equivalent to the plastic/resin parts of this box cost about £135 individually. If they sell the box for about £90 or £95, I would be quite interested.
Apparently the guy who was given the Necromantic picture and posted it got some more info from his source on the Necromantic team (though they refused to send images) and they said that Wights are replaced by "Wraiths" that have similar stats but have the abilities: No hands, foul appearance, and sidestep instead of the Wights abilities.
Who knows? The information he has posted so far looks pretty legit though.
All of this is over in the Blood Bowl Reddit along with more stuff across various posts if anyone wants to check it out.
That actually sounds kind of cool, the necromantic seem to have more of a spooky vibe amount them and this fits better. I'd hope any kind of wraiths were in the kit but they might end up beind a resin booster like the dark elf assassins.
Thargrim wrote: That actually sounds kind of cool, the necromantic seem to have more of a spooky vibe amount them and this fits better. I'd hope any kind of wraiths were in the kit but they might end up beind a resin booster like the dark elf assassins.
Yeah, I think it would help differentiate the Necromantic Team from the Shambling Undead as well. I wouldn't be thrilled about them being a resin kit from FW though, so I definitely hope they are in the kit but not pictured......though it seems unlikely.
Thargrim wrote: That actually sounds kind of cool, the necromantic seem to have more of a spooky vibe amount them and this fits better. I'd hope any kind of wraiths were in the kit but they might end up beind a resin booster like the dark elf assassins.
Yeah, I think it would help differentiate the Necromantic Team from the Shambling Undead as well. I wouldn't be thrilled about them being a resin kit from FW though, so I definitely hope they are in the kit but not pictured......though it seems unlikely.
It’s called “a box of chainrasps” and it’s already available. And probably cheaper than the Forge World booster.
Just snip off the weapons.
Thargrim wrote: That actually sounds kind of cool, the necromantic seem to have more of a spooky vibe amount them and this fits better. I'd hope any kind of wraiths were in the kit but they might end up beind a resin booster like the dark elf assassins.
Yeah, I think it would help differentiate the Necromantic Team from the Shambling Undead as well. I wouldn't be thrilled about them being a resin kit from FW though, so I definitely hope they are in the kit but not pictured......though it seems unlikely.
It’s called “a box of chainrasps” and it’s already available. And probably cheaper than the Forge World booster.
Just snip off the weapons.
Maybe even the mymourn banshees, £10 for 4, dynamic poses.
Thargrim wrote: That actually sounds kind of cool, the necromantic seem to have more of a spooky vibe amount them and this fits better. I'd hope any kind of wraiths were in the kit but they might end up beind a resin booster like the dark elf assassins.
Yeah, I think it would help differentiate the Necromantic Team from the Shambling Undead as well. I wouldn't be thrilled about them being a resin kit from FW though, so I definitely hope they are in the kit but not pictured......though it seems unlikely.
It’s called “a box of chainrasps” and it’s already available. And probably cheaper than the Forge World booster.
Just snip off the weapons.
Maybe even the mymourn banshees, £10 for 4, dynamic poses.
Also a good option which I completely forgot existed. Not totally sold on the gravestone bits though, maybe swap for footballs?
The gravestone bits could end up matching an eventual necromantic pitch though. I was thinking about cutting or separating the spirit host models a couple of which have arms outspread with no daggers to remove. If these wraiths do have the no hands rule I might consider the banshee models and just remove their arms entirely.
Nice suggestions on the Chainrasps and Banshees, definitely some nice looking kits and would be a cheap alternative if Wraiths turn out to be a thing and are a FW kit.
From memory only 1 banshee in that set is moulded into a stone, which can be removed with a little work.
2 others have small parts of fencing on them which are easier to remove.
I believe one is completely separate of basing materials too.
So work wise, maybe 20 mins cutting and a small amount of GS clean up work to get 4 players for £8 on eBay.
Edit: on the note of wrasps, some do t even have weapons.
Also, due to how their hands/arms protrude from the sleeves, you can just swap out arms to get a model with both hands open.
Like most kits these don’t have a “weapon hand” as such and use both hands.
The hands from the zombies kit are also a close match.
Can also use spirit hosts as a bit of GS to cover joins will let you have 3 separate spirits.
Baxx wrote: This box is a huge upgrade from the previous.
Expect the price to be upgraded, too. ;P
Yeah but the price is pretty much irrelevant to me because Blood Bowl is one of my very few miniature games I play. If I want something, I can afford it (because I doesn't want a lot of other stuff). However, I'm gonna wait and see this time, more worried about the game as a whole than any particular new models.
That is a possibility, I’m just hoping they didn’t remove the player from the roster. As long as they are there I’m happy (I even have a couple extra from the Undead team as I bought two to fill out a maximum possible 16 man roster- could just paint them in my Necro team scheme).
Yes, we need the roster to know the contents of the team. You can never judge a team by the pictures GW presents. Painting multiple related teams in same colour seems to be the best way now. Halflings can join Humans, mixed teams like Underworlds (Skaven + Goblin), Old World Alliance (Dwarf, Halfling, Human), greenskin teams (Orcs and Goblins), dead teams (undead, necro, khemri).
Carlovonsexron wrote: Im hoping Amazon's are.still.coming up. I'd be pretty disappointed if they got axed. :/
I'd definitely like to see what the figures would look like. Could be good conversion material for Necromunda Eschers too perhaps, or a Mordheim warband.
Interesting that the ghoul runner is further departed from the current GW ghoul design and closer to the old ghoul look. Flesh golem's a fun sculpt too.
Chikout wrote: I always felt like the 2016 bloodbowl box was not a particularly good deal. Even with the recent price increases buying the box is like buying 2 teams and the rules with the other components thrown in. Usually gw box sets are cheaper than buying the plastic individually. It also lacked flair. It was just two decent looking teams, the rules and some standard extras.
The new edition looks much more interesting. The quality of the sculpts is better. You get two star players, two big guys, two coaches/mascots (One of them looks like a squig) and hardback rules. It feels like a better cross section of the full game.
The equivalent to the plastic/resin parts of this box cost about £135 individually. If they sell the box for about £90 or £95, I would be quite interested.
Yes, not only hardback rules, but actual rules for the whole game. The previous start box had dumbed down demo rules, in particular, the dreaded 'advanced' section (splitting the rules), incomplete kick-off table (they removed assistant coaches and cheerleaders) and incomplete and incorrect skills (only including skills for players in the box and ignoring stuff like sure hands has immunity to strip ball, because no players in the box have strip ball).
Chikout wrote: I always felt like the 2016 bloodbowl box was not a particularly good deal. Even with the recent price increases buying the box is like buying 2 teams and the rules with the other components thrown in. Usually gw box sets are cheaper than buying the plastic individually. It also lacked flair. It was just two decent looking teams, the rules and some standard extras.
The new edition looks much more interesting. The quality of the sculpts is better. You get two star players, two big guys, two coaches/mascots (One of them looks like a squig) and hardback rules. It feels like a better cross section of the full game.
The equivalent to the plastic/resin parts of this box cost about £135 individually. If they sell the box for about £90 or £95, I would be quite interested.
Yes, not only hardback rules, but actual rules for the whole game. The previous start box had dumbed down demo rules, in particular, the dreaded 'advanced' section (splitting the rules), incomplete kick-off table (they removed assistant coaches and cheerleaders) and incomplete and incorrect skills (only including skills for players in the box and ignoring stuff like sure hands has immunity to strip ball, because no players in the box have strip ball).
BB2016 was their first Specialist Games release after reviving the brand, it was basically a cheap testing bed for the idea. They used the CRP rules with very minor changes (they didn't have time to do many more), the artwork was nicked from the Cyanide games and they only committted to making 4 plastic teams (Human, Orc, Skaven and Dwarf) and the rest in resin if demand held up. League rules as you say were split from the main rules, perhaps because some in GW considered BB to be more of a novelty purchase that people played once a year or so like Space Hulk.
GW dramatically underestimated the demand, although less so than in the Kirby era when they thought no one cared about SGs, and very quickly the resin teams were switched to plastic.This more detailed box with all the rules, star players, referees etc shows that BB is stil in quite fine health sales wise and GW seems to be really embracing it now, given the variety and depth of what's in the core box. I can only hope that the new rules work well and that the missing teams still get their plastic releases.
I liked making a separate table for stunty players, although their rules are identical.
Some of the casualty probabilities have changed, partially because making room for new PA injury and moving from D68 (D6+D8) to D166 (D16+D6):
Badly Hurt (no long term effect): -12.5000% (now: 37.5000%) MNG (Miss Next Game): +2.0833% (now: 18.7500%) NI (Niggling Injury): +14.5833% (now: 18.7500%) -1 AV (and MNG): 4.1667% (same as before) -1 MA (and MNG): -2.0833% (now: 2.0833%) -1 PA (and MNG): 2.0833% (new) -1 AG (and MNG): 2.0833% (same as before) -1 ST (and MNG): 2.0833% (same as before) Dead: -4.1667% (now: 12.5000%)
To summarize, injury to MA is now split in half, one for MA and one for the new PA stat. A big chunk of Badly Hurt is transferred to NI. Death has a small reduction.
Expensive Mistakes table has also been adjusted a little bit, mainly reducing the punishment.
Apologies if anyone else has already posted something like this, but I've just been working out which teams will likely be in the new rule book, and this is what I've come up with, with page numbers:
107 - Team Tiers
108 - Black Orc
109 - Chaos
110 - Chaos Renegades
111 - Dark Elf
112 - Dwarf
113 - Elven Union
114 - Goblin
115 - Halfling
116 - Human
117 - Imperial Nobility
118 - Lizardmen
119 - Necromantic (new team - half a page leaked)
120 - Nurgle
121 - Old World Alliance
122 - Ogre
123 - Orc
124 - Shambling Undead
125 - Skaven
126 - Snotling (assuming their stats aren't just in their own Spike magazine)
127 - Underworld Denizens
128 - Wood Elf
129 - Star Players
Which completely leaves out:
Amazon
Chaos Dwarf
High Elf
Khemri
Norse
Vampire
If the Snotlings aren't in this and are only in their own Spike Magazine (which is possible given it'll have probably been in development quite a while), then the only other team/race that would fit alphabetically without a name change (like Shambling Undead instead of just Undead) would be Vampire.
I suppose since the Chaos Renegades don't have a proper box set of minis available to buy anymore, some pages may be text only and split between more than one team which could let Chaos Dwarf sneak in and If the same was done with Old World Alliance and Underworld Denizens than maybe Norse and Vampire could be there, but let's face it, that's just clutching at imaginary straws!
So if this is going to be the case, with up to 6 teams missing then it's going to upset a lot of people unless they do release some kind of supplement with new stats for the teams they're not including.
Vampire probably won't fit, because their blood sucking skill isn't listed on the skill pages. Unless that skill has been renamed (bringing it further back) or moved to a skill category not yet leaked. Or unless their unique mechanics are changed/removed completely.
I'm pretty confident these six teams will get new models throughout the upcoming edition and might have rules in a pdf or a similiar format until then :-) There might even be other new teams. Who thought there would be a Nobility or a Black orc team? Their chances would not have been considered to be high a week ago. I think Norse/Norsca and Chaos Dwarfs allow for interesting models. Same with Amazons. Looking at the Warcry range I dont think BB teams are that far away from the Warband designs already available. And I think FW is not on a route with this game like GW were with AoS in 2011. I mean they want to sell us new models and why cut the possibilities to do that? I think the rulebook is like a compilation of the available (plastic and resin) teams at the start of the edition and more will be added with Spike magazine along with the kits like before.
Edit: FW already design Kislev units for Warhammer - The Old World and these could get a team in BB too.
Looks like Wraiths have replaced Wights in the Necromantic list, which I think could make the team more unique in play style. Also looks to be another 14 man boxed team which is cool - this one looks like with max positionals in the box (assuming a 0-2 on Wraiths)
I also love the corny Halloween vibe they gave team, I think it really suits Blood Bowls tongue in cheek nature and is a lot of fun.
There are no plastic star players what so ever, except the 2 new ones in the box.
Seems like Josef Bugman has taken a hit in this new book. 30k more expensive and lost the 2x assistiant coach ability. Losing Block, gaining Wrestle. Also losing the 1st half / 2nd half double stats. Instead, he is simply available as a reserves if the team is reduced to less than 11 players. And Went from AG 2 to AG 3+, quite a boost for a dwarf?!? And available to any team now. All in all, simplified, streamlined, dumbed down and more expensive. Not impressed :(
Blorcs are so goid looking. Going by the 32mm bases they're pretty much Orruk Brute sized, right? Them hulking out on 40mm would be even better, but a team of Black Reach Waaghboss-sized dudes would be too hot to handle, I guess.
A Khemri and HElf team in that quality would be...chefkiss.jpg
Norsca might give Khorne/Chaos players actually good looking Bloodreavers
Chorfs I'm mad at myself that I didn't get the M2O set - but i still think it was really expensive and while I like how nostalgic the sculpts are...they're not that great to spend a lot.
Vamps. Oh, Vamps. I like the idea of them, but I could only ever win with them in the first Cyanide game by abusing save games. Really no idea how to play them.
JWBS wrote: No Chaos Dwarves in the new edition? That would be entirely unacceptable to me.
I can’t really believe this needs to be said for real but: all we actually know is that they aren’t likely to be in the rule book. We don’t even know for certain that they aren’t since only a few pages have leaked, possibly from pre-production proofs at that. Heck, until two days ago people were asking the same questions about Necromantic Horror teams and now look. Also, if not being in the rule book released with the boxed game actually meant they aren’t a playable team in the edition then Chaos Dwarfs haven’t been legal since 2016.
Even assuming that there isn’t a Teams of Legend style update document, GW is not likely to stop releasing new teams just because they got a new edition with lots of teams already listed out the door and chorfs are pretty dang popular. Same goes for helfs, vamps, Norse, and all the rest not released yet.
Ok, now that there are the blitzers in the box im gonna buy it 100%, although i would have liked a diferent model than a blanket. I'm waiting for the price of the bb3 box, hope it's under 100€.
JWBS wrote: No Chaos Dwarves in the new edition? That would be entirely unacceptable to me.
I can’t really believe this needs to be said for real but: all we actually know is that they aren’t likely to be in the rule book. We don’t even know for certain that they aren’t since only a few pages have leaked, possibly from pre-production proofs at that. Heck, until two days ago people were asking the same questions about Necromantic Horror teams and now look. Also, if not being in the rule book released with the boxed game actually meant they aren’t a playable team in the edition then Chaos Dwarfs haven’t been legal since 2016.
I get the feeling, with all your italics and underlining and "I can't believe I even need to say this", that your response to me is somewhat condescending, despite that my statement was clearly of a propositional nature
I remember on the twitch steam a long time ago around when they confirmed necromantic would get their own plastics they also said chorfs would retain their big hats. I could see them coming out next year.
So are people labouring under the assumption that the new edition precludes any further expansions in the shape of new teams?
Because that's....
The "missing" teams will follow as and when the design team get round to them, accompanied by their own Spike magazines (or equivalent). How anyone thinks GW are just going to, I dunno, stop making expansions to what appears to be a perfectly profitable game is just bizarre to me.
Are people just trying to find stuff to complain about at this point?
ekwatts wrote: So are people labouring under the assumption that the new edition precludes any further expansions in the shape of new teams?
Because that's....
The "missing" teams will follow as and when the design team get round to them, accompanied by their own Spike magazines (or equivalent). How anyone thinks GW are just going to, I dunno, stop making expansions to what appears to be a perfectly profitable game is just bizarre to me.
Are people just trying to find stuff to complain about at this point?
Yeah? But people are waiting for Spyrers, Redemptioninsts and Ratskin in Necromunda, but GW pushes new broken stuff instead (or repeat existing gangs for the nth time). Also, many people already have these teams. We're not necessarily waiting for GW to release "new" teams, we primarily need the rules. Good thing about BB2016 is all previous teams are fully playable, as everything is/was backwards compatible. That's not the case any longer.
Removing the team rosters without updated plastic kits pretty much means there will be extensions in the future. I guess they'll keep doing Spike! magazine every time they'll release a new team.
Also, not having the rosters means cutting the grass under the feet of other companies making "count as" teams, since they don't know what GW will add as players when they'll release their team.
And like they say on Reddit, since it's a new edition, it'll take some time before updating the missing rosters to the new balance of power.
If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Snotling list has been leaked. You can max out every positional (including linemen) and still take three re-rolls on a starting team. You just need one team box and two trolls.
Even so, I expect your TV will still only be about ¾ of a million, if the Team special rule does what I think (like the Ogre runts, I expect the line-snots won’t count). That still may not be enough to save you though…
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Gotta make cash with dlc books
Again, I don't mind new teams coming out via Spike magazine (or dlc books as you call them), newly released content is a good reason for that magazine to exist. I just want all the rules for the teams that were JUST sold to us in the Head Coach's Handbook to be ported over.
It isn't like it was GW that has kept this game alive until 2016 anyways, doesn't seem to be a smart move to alienate a fairly good sized portion of the player base by cutting 6 teams.
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Gotta make cash with dlc books
Again, I don't mind new teams coming out via Spike magazine (or dlc books as you call them), newly released content is a good reason for that magazine to exist. I just want all the rules for the teams that were JUST sold to us in the Head Coach's Handbook to be ported over.
It isn't like it was GW that has kept this game alive until 2016 anyways, doesn't seem to be a smart move to alienate a fairly good sized portion of the player base by cutting 6 teams.
Wow, I didn't realise they'd done that, I've never looked at that book, it just makes it even worse. As long as they have a pdf with the new stats for those teams then it's not a problem and they can release the teams with the Spike magazines at their pleasure and most of us will happily buy them.
If they don't release new stats for those 6 teams I can only imagine the chaos it'll cause for tournaments if they take up this new rule set.
I am very interested in seeing what the NAF decides to do with this new ruleset; will they adopt it automatically upon release? will they wait awhile to see how it plays out? will they decide to stay with BB2016 or even go back to the CRP?
If GW does not release with the BB2020 rules rosters for all teams currently played in BB2016/CRP, then I could see the NAF not adopting the BB2020 rules. The NAF's years of players' stats tracking includes the 24 teams that have been in play for quite some time. To remove some teams, add several other teams, and make significant changes to other teams' rosters could lead to a "reset" of all player stats by the NAF; something that many NAF members might take issue with.
However, if the NAF were to stick with BB2016 or go back to the CRP I could see GW sending them a cease and desist notice for using any GW IP or if the NAF were to publish the CRP again.
At this point in time, I'm hoping that the NAF will hold off on adopting the BB2020 ruleset and stick with BB2016/CRP until the dust settles a bit and we get some actual playtesting data from the community on the new rules. As someone who has regularly attended BB tournaments for several years, I don't recall any of the players I met expressing a desire for a completely new edition of rules. Some minor tweaks to a few skills and rosters? Yes, but nothing of the magnitude that will be coming with BB2020.
I could see them releasing a PDF with temporary rules for vampis/chorfs and the others. Cause who knows what changes they would implement for those teams alongside eventual spike magazines. These teams will probably end up in limbo with their current rosters getting the PA change and that's about it. They would have to be insanely foolish to not provide some form of playability for those teams in the new edition.
However, if the NAF were to stick with BB2016 or go back to the CRP I could see GW sending them a cease and desist notice for using any GW IP or if the NAF were to publish the CRP again.
if NAF goes back to CRP or release a updated BB2016 and GW does anything like that, they would kill of the game over night.
I cannot see the Community being positive torwards GW and support the company by buying their products if the send letters out because they made a mistake
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Is the new edition of Blood Bowl different enough that 'updated' rosters are needed?
I seriously doubt that the NAF would cut any of their teams, and they're likely to add the new ones on a sort of 'trial' basis (which usually ends with them being official later on).
I don't think the current GW would send a C&D to the NAF for a number of reasons. Not only because it would be supremely stupid, but also because they rarely send C&D letters to non-US organizations, and because the days of the "C&D for everyone" have gone with the Kirby after he lost them so much money over Chapterhouse..
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Is the new edition of Blood Bowl different enough that 'updated' rosters are needed?
Yes. They added another characteristic, never mind changing and adding several skills, and the extra characteristic does not derive from the existing one that used to do the same job(s) in a linear fashion.
There are patterns but it’s not completely predictable/consistent.
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Is the new edition of Blood Bowl different enough that 'updated' rosters are needed?
I seriously doubt that the NAF would cut any of their teams, and they're likely to add the new ones on a sort of 'trial' basis (which usually ends with them being official later on).
I don't think the current GW would send a C&D to the NAF for a number of reasons. Not only because it would be supremely stupid, but also because they rarely send C&D letters to non-US organizations, and because the days of the "C&D for everyone" have gone with the Kirby after he lost them so much money over Chapterhouse..
The rosters in the new edition won't be compatible with the old rosters because of the addition of the Pass stat.
Baxx wrote: If it takes time, I would rather have them hold the new edition until rosters are ready for all teams. Not interested in another early access beta game.
This. I don't mind future releases of brand new teams being added through Spike magazines... but all I want is complete rosters for the teams we have been playing with for years and years.
Is the new edition of Blood Bowl different enough that 'updated' rosters are needed?
Yes, as there is now the passing stat and others have changed to being what you need to role (i.e. AG 3 becoming 4+)
Baxx wrote: What's up with the drip-feeding of leaked content? Is it one team per day or what???
You’d have to ask the leaker for that info but it seems they’ve gotten fed up of being pestered and dropped basically the whole thing, if you know where to look.
Looking at my old 2nd Edition Blood Bowl Star Players and Compendium books, as well as my boxed copy of Dungeon Bowl, as well as the (even for the time) almost prohibitively expensive all metal teams that couldn't be completed without in-store mail order and wondering how we went from being perfectly okay with the combined cost of all that to whining about a £7 Spike! magazine expansion.
Gnarlly wrote: However, if the NAF were to stick with BB2016 or go back to the CRP I could see GW sending them a cease and desist notice for using any GW IP or if the NAF were to publish the CRP again.
This new edition was made to take the power away from such groups and put it back in the hands of GW.
Want any level of official-ness? Gotta play the new edition. Break away from that to do you're own thing? Well you're out in the cold then, aren't you. Have fun with zero support from the company making the game.
Gnarlly wrote: However, if the NAF were to stick with BB2016 or go back to the CRP I could see GW sending them a cease and desist notice for using any GW IP or if the NAF were to publish the CRP again.
This new edition was made to take the power away from such groups and put it back in the hands of GW.
Want any level of official-ness? Gotta play the new edition. Break away from that to do you're own thing? Well you're out in the cold then, aren't you. Have fun with zero support from the company making the game.
Weirdly conspiratorial and knowing post.
The 'power' that the naf have always had is the awesome power of running plastic football games for handfulls of men with beards, a power that they've retained and will continue to wield whether or not they 'break away' into 'the cold' and 'have fun with zero support' like they've always done. For years and years.
privateer4hire wrote: Have Nu-GW actually been providing prizes or other support to events? If not what’s the downside of vets leagues sticking with the LRB?
Just losing the new players buying the new edition. If that's not important to your player group, it's nothing.
Honestly, it's not a bad one. It's well presented and quite clear. Very new player-friendly.
While it's clearly a new edition, the core is still there. There is a base that is IMHO thought for the future supplements as well - lots of status and keyword-like rules that don't seem to have a lot of effects right now, but will certainly unlock other stuff later.
Here are the teams inside :
- Black Orc Teams
- Chaos Chosen Teams
- Chaos Renegade Teams
- Dark Elf Teams
- Dwarf Teams
- Elven Union Teams
- Goblin Teams
- Halfling Teams
- Human Teams
- Imperial Nobility Teams
- Lizardmen Teams
- Necromantic Teams
- Nurgle Teams
- Ogre Teams
- Old World Alliance Teams
- Orc Teams
- Shambling Undead Teams
- Skaven Teams
- Snotling Teams
- Underworld Denizens Teams
- Wood Elf Teams
And here are the Starplayers listed inside (but they also wrote future supplements will bring others)
- The Black Gobbo
- Deeproot Strongbranch
- Eldril Sidewinder
- Glart Smashrip
- Gloriel Summerbloom
- Grak & Crumbleberry (must still be taken together)
- Gretchen Wachter "The Blood Bowl Widow"
- Griff Oberwald
- Grim Ironjaw
- Hakflem Skuttlespike
- Helmut Wulf
- Karla Von Kill
- Lord Borak the Despoiler
- Mighty Zug
- Morg'n'Thorg
- Roxanna Darknail
- Rumbelow Sheepskin
- Skrull Halfheight
- Lucien Swift & Valen Swift (still must be taken together)
- Varag Ghoul-Chewer
- Grombrindal, the White Dwarf
- Willow Rosebark
- Zolcath the Zoat (yes, really)
All starplayers each have special rules on their own. Zolcath the Zoat has the special rule "Excuse Me, Are You A Zoat ?"
Weirdly conspiratorial and knowing post. The 'power' that the naf have always had is the awesome power of running plastic football games for handfulls of men with beards, a power that they've retained and will continue to wield whether or not they 'break away' into 'the cold' and 'have fun with zero support' like they've always done. For years and years.
To the NAF's credit, it's definitely more than a "handful." The 2015 world cup had almost 900 players, the 2019 World Cup had 1,400.
Fingers crossed that GW works quickly to get the rest of the teams updated. It's a shame that they replaced other actual teams with their replacement semi-original teams. I'll have to wait to field my Chaos Dwarfs, and who knows how my Slann/Kislev team will turn out.
The 'power' that the naf have always had is the awesome power of running plastic football games for handfulls of men with beards, a power that they've retained and will continue to wield whether or not they 'break away' into 'the cold' and 'have fun with zero support' like they've always done. For years and years.
I think the NAF's players aren't just a block of people who refuse any change just because it's change. I believe a lot of them will take time to read the new rules, test them and see the big picture behind, then decide what to do with them. I also think they won't be automatically against them in the end. There are a lot of concepts that are good, actually.
But otherwise, yes, you can still play your own rules with your player group as you did before.
Fingers crossed that GW works quickly to get the rest of the teams updated. It's a shame that they replaced other actual teams with their replacement semi-original teams. I'll have to wait to field my Chaos Dwarfs, and who knows how my Slann/Kislev team will turn out.
I see four possibilities ;
- They release a pdf with the missing teams like they did in 2016 (or was it in 2017 ? I don't remember, I know the first release was end of the year), some kind of "teams of legend"
- They make a supplement for that that you buy separately
- They take the time to make the plastic miniatures and release a Spike! magazine with the new roster and new rules (and certainly new players as well, like chamelon skinks or the different halfling "specialists" )...one by one.
- They're gone forever ! Nah, I'm joking I don't believe that option.
Note that they may choose more than one (making the pdf or the supplement before releasing the plastic miniatures later, and so on)
So it seems that any star players listed who don't currently have an official model eg. Gretchen Wachter "The Blood Bowl Widow", they will now be getting one?
That's nice.
I realise there will obviously be new star players coming like that zoat and a couple others I've not heard of before. Just thought I'd check, saves me converting my own.
So it seems that any star players listed who don't currently have an official model eg. Gretchen Wachter "The Blood Bowl Widow", they will now be getting one?
That's nice.
I realise there will obviously be new star players coming like that zoat and a couple others I've not heard of before. Just thought I'd check, saves me converting my own.
Yeah, it was interesting seeing who made it and who didn’t. I for one reckon Ripper Bolgrot should have been there but I just want to know if they give him PA2+ like his fluff says he should have. That said, I’m amazed that Gloriel Summerbloom doesn’t have PA1+ given her background…
Other interesting things:
Scatter, bounce, and deviate are three different ways for the ball to not go where you want it, and get used as keywords all over the place. Kickoffs scatter, dropped balls bounce - these are the same as 3rd/4th/2016 - deviating is D6 squares in a random direction and that’s what happens when you throw a wildly inaccurate pass.
Corner throws are a thing; use the top-left quadrant of the scatter template and a D3 to determine direction.
The Team Special Rules are a weird combination of basically keywords (the different cups/leagues) and actual rules - low cost linemen does exactly what we thought it did, for example - some of which are also used as keywords for various inducements.
Star players play for team keywords now so for example Karla Von Kill plays in the Old World Classic, the Halfling Thimble Cup, and the Lustrian Superleague. Which means she can play on Dwarf and Lizardman teams now.
Speaking of Karla, she has a special version of Dauntless that gives her double the opponent’s S value…
So it seems that any star players listed who don't currently have an official model eg. Gretchen Wachter "The Blood Bowl Widow", they will now be getting one? That's nice.
I realise there will obviously be new star players coming like that zoat and a couple others I've not heard of before. Just thought I'd check, saves me converting my own.
I wouldn't expect GW to make all star players, no. It would be much easier for them to cut down the amount. I got rules for 108 star players for BB2016, some new, some old, some modified, some who haven't been re-released yet and some who probably didn't survive the transition to BB2016. I see people saying "Justice 4 Puggy" for example.
The "new and shiny" releases are an effective distraction to all the content we lose. Some is most certainly lost, other is unknown. Maybe we get a temporary "teams of legend" pdf covering the missing teams (like Vampires, Amazons etc), maybe we won't. Maybe they will be delayed until a future Spike some time in the future, maybe they are gone forever. GW never bothered with old and loved gangs for Necromunda, like Spyrers and Redemptionists. Instead, they focus on completely new stuff. In Blood Bowl, they focus on new stuff instead of completeness. What we got now seem to adhere to the "no rules without minis" rule. We get rules for all teams released/revealed, nothing else.
Is it cynical to release a Spike 6 months before a new edition? Everything in it is useless. Why bother making all these rules, hall of fame teams and bonus content when it is 'garbage' in 6 months?
Well, it might easily be another 3-4 months till Blood Bowl hits.
GW revealed it to get on top of the leaks, but specialist games, including previous Blood Bowl editions, have traditionally been November/Christmas-type of games.
Without leaks, there possibly wouldn't have been a Warcom article about any of this before November.
Chopstick wrote: Team's rules are included in their boxes or just straight up revealed in Warcom article. You never need to buy the Spike! magazine for it.
All team boxes have BB2020 rules and not BB2016 rules? Warcom article reveals Vampire, Amazon, Chorf etc? No, we're getting rules for teams sold in plastic, not rules for teams in the game.
Chopstick wrote: Team's rules are included in their boxes or just straight up revealed in Warcom article. You never need to buy the Spike! magazine for it.
All team boxes have BB2020 rules and not BB2016 rules? Warcom article reveals Vampire, Amazon, Chorf etc? No, we're getting rules for teams sold in plastic, not rules for teams in the game.
And they will be there when they're out, it's not the end of the world for blood bowl. and so far there're no indication that any team are getting axed, or even Spyrer from Necromunda are "abandoned" They're just slow/lazy, or it's a direct order to withheld making /revealing the rule from GW.
The biggest problem right now is that the price of the new edition starter will be so high that might as well better to stick to the old one or just play the video game for the new edition than supporting the tabletop one
The BB2016 rulebook did not have the rules for legacy teams either, to expect the BB2020 rulebook to do so is unrealistic. I expect a "get you by" pdf for them, then fleshed out versions in future Spikes. just like BB2016 progression really.
Technically, I guess GW can make FAQ /erratas for past Spike! magazine, so that they keep being relevant in the new edition. But I don't know how GW will handle once the new box will be released.
Otherwise, the magazines will still be fun to read for the fluff - rules aren't everything they offered, after all.
My personnal feeling is that we will have new special cards along with the game accessories, as it usually happens with a new edition. Yes, that means more money for GW, but well...that's pretty much the reason of a new edition. And future Spike! magazines will certainly be released next as well.
...Or maybe there will be another BB Almanach this end of the year with the compilation (and update) of some previous rules so that they keep being relevant to the new edition...
And they will be there when they're out, it's not the end of the world for blood bowl. and so far there're no indication that any team are getting axed, or even Spyrer from Necromunda are "abandoned" They're just slow/lazy, or it's a direct order to withheld making /revealing the rule from GW.
The biggest problem right now is that the price of the new edition starter will be so high that might as well better to stick to the old one or just play the video game for the new edition than supporting the tabletop one
Necromunda is having 18 books, but no sign of the missing gangs. Instead, gangs like Escher and Goliath are being re-released with new version for the 4th or 5th time. Just like Underworlds is on version 2 (for BB2016) and now getting a 3rd version for BB2020.
The price is to no concern to me at all. I'm much more worried about time and rules. I'm not interested in waiting to play a team just because GW decides to ignore it for an unknown amount of years. I'm gonna play the new edition, at least for testing, but not interested in filling up the shelf with books with short expiration dates.
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MaxT wrote: The BB2016 rulebook did not have the rules for legacy teams either, to expect the BB2020 rulebook to do so is unrealistic. I expect a "get you by" pdf for them, then fleshed out versions in future Spikes. just like BB2016 progression really.
Every team (including Slann) was fully compatible with BB2016. No existing teams are compatible with BB2020. The BB2016 rulebook wasn't a proper rulebook, it was only a beginner's guide covering the contents of the box (and hardly that).
The telling part is that all the Teams/Star Players in the book are those who have models already or had new kits ala the new Necromantic (all except for 4 Star Players; I'd expect those 4 to get models in the not too distant future).
Even staples like Jordall and Puggy aren't in, nor are new ones like Bob who they know are incredibly popularn concepts. This screams to me that they're just tidying up what they already have available (or soon will) and then releasing rules for models as and when they're available. Perhaps they'll do another Teams of Legend as a stopgap?
They know Chaos Dwarfs get asked for all the time. They like money. Maybe not all teams will make the final cut but I'll be very surprised if we don't see the more established (High Elves!!) or popular (Chaos Dwarfs, Norse etc.) down the line along with some new ones.
You know what’s actually kinda neat? The new teams are mostly backwards-compatible. You could totally play most of them in the 2016 rules just by dropping the PA stat. Yeah, stuff like Brawler needs to be edited in but I don’t see any reason the blorcs, nobles and snotlings couldn’t play against 2016 teams if you want to stick with those rules because your favourite team is there already.
That said, we still know absolutely nothing about the actual release other than that it is happening. No dates, no details of the packs or accessories, no confirmation if the new rule book will be available separately even. As such it is far, far too early to declare the sky is falling.
Mr_Rose wrote: You know what’s actually kinda neat? The new teams are mostly backwards-compatible. You could totally play most of them in the 2016 rules just by dropping the PA stat. Yeah, stuff like Brawler needs to be edited in but I don’t see any reason the blorcs, nobles and snotlings couldn’t play against 2016 teams if you want to stick with those rules because your favourite team is there already.
That said, we still know absolutely nothing about the actual release other than that it is happening. No dates, no details of the packs or accessories, no confirmation if the new rule book will be available separately even. As such it is far, far too early to declare the sky is falling.
A fan rewriting of the rules to make new teams backwards-compatible would be
Happy to see the rare Star Players survived, like Grak & Crumbleberry and White Dwarf & Black Gobbo. But White Dwaraf & Black Gobbo lost their duality and unique way to show up. Instead, they are paid for like any other star players :(
Just saw that Amazon has a new edition of Matt Forbeck's Blood Bowl Omnibus on pre-order for early December delivery. Not that there was much doubt, but it seems like the guesses about the new game being released in Nov/Dec are likely correct.
BigDaddio wrote: Just saw that Amazon has a new edition of Matt Forbeck's Blood Bowl Omnibus on pre-order for early December delivery. Not that there was much doubt, but it seems like the guesses about the new game being released in Nov/Dec are likely correct.
I heard those books were fairly decent, I may pick that up.
Disappointed to see the shuffling of star players. White Dwarf now plays for Lizardmen? Any Skaven Star Player also play for Snotlings and Goblins? Instead of including rules for star players they already have made in BB2016 (or older ones before that), they skipped all that doesn't have a miniature. So I expect some teams like Lizardmen who doesn't have any physical Star Players at the moment, got a random selection of others instead? That must be the dumbest foundation to build rules!?!
Baxx wrote: Disappointed to see the shuffling of star players. White Dwarf now plays for Lizardmen? Any Skaven Star Player also play for Snotlings and Goblins? Instead of including rules for star players they already have made in BB2016 (or older ones before that), they skipped all that doesn't have a miniature. So I expect some teams like Lizardmen who doesn't have any physical Star Players at the moment, got a random selection of others instead? That must be the dumbest foundation to build rules!?!
Hah! Thankfully many third party companies seem to produce alternate star player minis. Shouldn't be too hard to buy or convert a "bearded lizard" to use the White Dwarf on a Lizardmen team. Same with using a small orc to make Skaven minis for Snots or Gobs.
Not ideal, and the league keyword system does seem a bit strange... but in all honesty I would rather they end up with 30-40 workable Star Players with minis, than 100+ without minis that barely see play since they are so team restricted.
Didn't think of that, you are right it opens up new possibilities for conversions!
Yeah, this is not the best solution. It isn't a good situation in current BB2016 with 100+ Star Players either. Some new, some copied from previous edition, some modified and some in limbo (not yet re-released or have silently been axed). I would prefer to have maybe 50-60 star players, with some unique to individual teams (like Skaven only plays for Skaven/Underworld, Orc only play for Orc etc).
The result we see in BB2020 is an early-access release of an unfinished game. Star Players are organized based on what they care to make minis of. GW cared to make a lot of minis for the now numerous human teams, but didn't bother making any for Lizardmen and some other teams. As a result, several Human Star Players now play for Lizardmen.
Having read closer on some of the teams, skills and traits (previously extraordinary skills), it is obvious a lot of stuff has changed! Some small changes, some big.
For example Accurate is limited to Quick and Short only. If a Troll eats a Goblin holding the ball (Always Hungry), the ball bounces from the troll (instead of the goblin). Players with Animosity cannot change target if Animosity triggers. Ball & Chain moving into the ball is no longer a turn-over. Claw is no longer modifiable.
All teams have changed in varying degree. The smallest type of changes includes losing access to Passing skills on a double.
Does it strike anyone else as a bit cynical or disingenuous for GW to promote the Snotling team on WarCom with soon to be out-of-date stats/special rules (if the leaked rulebook is to be believed)?
Who's going to buy a Spike Magazine that apparently has "just about to be replaced material?"
Don't get me wrong, I've already started updating my teams...
Anvilbrow wrote: Does it strike anyone else as a bit cynical or disingenuous for GW to promote the Snotling team on WarCom with soon to be out-of-date stats/special rules (if the leaked rulebook is to be believed)?
Who's going to buy a Spike Magazine that apparently has "just about to be replaced material?"
Don't get me wrong, I've already started updating my teams...
It is classic GW, but to be fair the snotling team was probably supposed to release a long time ago...like shortly after they were announced. The coronavirus put a several months delay on a lot of things. Ideally the snotling stuff would have had a lifespan of 6 months at the very least. But they are at a point where the stuff was produced and instead of binning it they're just gonna release it anyways.
Anvilbrow wrote: Does it strike anyone else as a bit cynical or disingenuous for GW to promote the Snotling team on WarCom with soon to be out-of-date stats/special rules (if the leaked rulebook is to be believed)?
Who's going to buy a Spike Magazine that apparently has "just about to be replaced material?"
Don't get me wrong, I've already started updating my teams...
It is classic GW, but to be fair the snotling team was probably supposed to release a long time ago...like shortly after they were announced. The coronavirus put a several months delay on a lot of things. Ideally the snotling stuff would have had a lifespan of 6 months at the very least. But they are at a point where the stuff was produced and instead of binning it they're just gonna release it anyways.
As much as I would like to complain about GW, I will at least give them the benefit of the doubt and give them a pass on this one the whole Coronapocalypse has likely destroyed their release schedule.
Found out my Dark Elf team I bought stays exactly the same (starting roster wise) going into the new edition. Using it as an excuse to pick up a Lizardmen team as well, since no clue when my Amazons will be updated... that is the reason I am going with, and not just because I want another team...
Found it interesting the Chameleon Skink was turned into a pseudo-Thrower for the Lizards. Guess that is a step up from now, where the Chameleon Skink is just a slower and more expensive Skink that from what I read isn't used much.
Yeah, chameleon skinks are suddenly pretty dang good retrievers in second season edition. Starting throwers with both kick off return and pass block are really nice. In dire need of Pass though. Or maybe Sure Hands.
Found out my Dark Elf team I bought stays exactly the same (starting roster wise) going into the new edition. Using it as an excuse to pick up a Lizardmen team as well, since no clue when my Amazons will be updated... that is the reason I am going with, and not just because I want another team...
All teams have changed (in addition to having PA stat), however, for some teams like Dark Elf, the change is very minor. Some players losing access to Passing skill on a double. In your case, it's the Line. Other teams have more impactful changes, like Chaos can now choose between Mino, Ogre or Troll.
I'm gonna update all teams to be useable in the new edition, for example Amazon will gain PA 4+, Blitzer will have PA 5+ and Thrower PA 2+. Line losing access to Passing skills on a double.
The short-lived Snotling rules for BB2016 edition are released. I wonder why Pump Wagons got AV 9, then get reduced to AV 8 in the next BB2020 edition (AV 9+). As far as I remember, no other player in the entire game got armour reduction transitioning into the new edition.
GaroRobe wrote: Would a halfing v Snotling match be fairly even? Halfings probably have a bit of an advantage, but trolls and pump wagons probably help even things.
The free star player or two probably doesn’t hurt either.
GaroRobe wrote: Would a halfing v Snotling match be fairly even? Halfings probably have a bit of an advantage, but trolls and pump wagons probably help even things.
The free star player or two probably doesn’t hurt either.
What's this? Could you elaborate?
Snotlings are tempting because they can have a lot of players on the field. Swarming gives D3 and Riotous Rookies give 2D3+1, so you can field a maxium of 21 players on the pitch. And still have a hard time winning
GaroRobe wrote: Would a halfing v Snotling match be fairly even? Halfings probably have a bit of an advantage, but trolls and pump wagons probably help even things.
The free star player or two probably doesn’t hurt either.
What's this? Could you elaborate?
Snotlings are tempting because they can have a lot of players on the field. Swarming gives D3 and Riotous Rookies give 2D3+1, so you can field a maxium of 21 players on the pitch. And still have a hard time winning
A starting snotling team will have a lower TV than a starting Halfling team because the snotling base price doesn’t count towards TV for the purposes of determining the underdog etc. so even completely green rookie snotling teams will have a couple hundred thousand GP worth of inducements. So maybe Morg could be persuaded onto the pitch, or bomber dribblesnot because three bombardiers is nearly enough.
Thargrim wrote: I dunno if it's been mentioned yet but Blood Bowl 3 (video game) will be previewed at gamescom tomorrow (thurs) or friday at the latest.
I just saw that announced on a facebook group.
If nothing else I am hoping for a spiffy cgi trailer.
- 12 Teams at launch
- Those teams look nigh identical to the GW models for those teams.
- These included Chaos, Nurgle, Skaven, Orc, Human, Dark Elf, Elven Union, Dwarf and I am assuming the Goblin and Halfling teams as we saw those races as well.
The last two could be Wood Elves, Undead or Lizardmen as they have models out for their teams as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: More info - less guessing!
Jadenim wrote: So I’m guessing that there’ll only be new content for the game when GW release new models.
There's probably enough teams out to fill up a good 6-12 months of dlc while GW works on more teams. There's still models for ogres, snotlings, lizardmen, wood elves, and so on. The game will include black orcs/orcs and humans/the new imperial nobility or whatever. Based on what I saw I don't think lizardmen are making the cut....but goblins very well might. Coulda sworn I saw a halfling in there too.
There's probably enough teams out to fill up a good 6-12 months of dlc while GW works on more teams. There's still models for ogres, snotlings, lizardmen, wood elves, and so on. The game will include black orcs/orcs and humans/the new imperial nobility or whatever. Based on what I saw I don't think lizardmen are making the cut....but goblins very well might. Coulda sworn I saw a halfling in there too.
Yeah, a smug little Halfling watching when the Gobbo hit the turf.
I was pretty sure I saw the Lizardmen in the leaked books, with the Chameleons actually having a point in the new world order with their passing ability.
Jadenim wrote: So I’m guessing that there’ll only be new content for the game when GW release new models.
There's probably enough teams out to fill up a good 6-12 months of dlc while GW works on more teams. There's still models for ogres, snotlings, lizardmen, wood elves, and so on. The game will include black orcs/orcs and humans/the new imperial nobility or whatever. Based on what I saw I don't think lizardmen are making the cut....but goblins very well might. Coulda sworn I saw a halfling in there too.
Halflings are in the humans team as well now, I think. I think it was Orcs vs Humans, rather than Goblins vs Halflings.
Humans, Human Nobility, Orcs, Black Orcs, Dark Elves, Elven Union, Chaos, Nurgle, Skaven, Dwarfs, were all in the trailer or screenshots. Dunno what the last two will be.
Jadenim wrote: So I’m guessing that there’ll only be new content for the game when GW release new models.
There's probably enough teams out to fill up a good 6-12 months of dlc while GW works on more teams. There's still models for ogres, snotlings, lizardmen, wood elves, and so on. The game will include black orcs/orcs and humans/the new imperial nobility or whatever. Based on what I saw I don't think lizardmen are making the cut....but goblins very well might. Coulda sworn I saw a halfling in there too.
Halflings are in the humans team as well now, I think. I think it was Orcs vs Humans, rather than Goblins vs Halflings.
Humans, Human Nobility, Orcs, Black Orcs, Dark Elves, Elven Union, Chaos, Nurgle, Skaven, Dwarfs, were all in the trailer or screenshots. Dunno what the last two will be.
If I was a betting man probably Wood Elves and Shambling or Necromantic and Shambling would be my guesses, as they have tabletop teams to go with them.
Jadenim wrote: So I’m guessing that there’ll only be new content for the game when GW release new models.
There's probably enough teams out to fill up a good 6-12 months of dlc while GW works on more teams. There's still models for ogres, snotlings, lizardmen, wood elves, and so on. The game will include black orcs/orcs and humans/the new imperial nobility or whatever. Based on what I saw I don't think lizardmen are making the cut....but goblins very well might. Coulda sworn I saw a halfling in there too.
Halflings are in the humans team as well now, I think. I think it was Orcs vs Humans, rather than Goblins vs Halflings.
Humans, Human Nobility, Orcs, Black Orcs, Dark Elves, Elven Union, Chaos, Nurgle, Skaven, Dwarfs, were all in the trailer or screenshots. Dunno what the last two will be.
If I was a betting man probably Wood Elves and Shambling or Necromantic and Shambling would be my guesses, as they have tabletop teams to go with them.
I feel like if you are launching a Blood Bowl game with 12 teams, you need at least 1 representative of the Undead teams in there. My guess for the last two would be Shambling Undead and Lizardmen (as there are already two Elf teams in the initial line-up). I guess Wood Elves, Ogres, Necro, etc would follow shortly.
NH Gunsmith wrote: Gotta say... the music in the teaser video really didn't seem to match haha.
The game itself looks great, but oof... that music was rough.
Typical Cyanide and their all over the place production values.
Anyway, I hope BB3 is something more than just BB2 with 2020 rules. I'd love for pitch rules, ball rules, variant rules (7s), more in depth team customisation, better stat tracking, more nuanced league creation rules etc. It needs something to differentiate it from the previous game and really going heavy on letting people customise things, bringing it closer to tabletop would be great. I'm talking customisation on the level of the great old FPS Timesplitters or the 90s Worms games for anyone who remembers those games.
It's just a trailer, i'd argue that many if not most video game trailers have bad music. It's par for the course at this point. I doubt the music in game will be like that unless they want to lean real hard on the campiness of BB.
NH Gunsmith wrote: Gotta say... the music in the teaser video really didn't seem to match haha.
The game itself looks great, but oof... that music was rough.
Typical Cyanide and their all over the place production values.
Anyway, I hope BB3 is something more than just BB2 with 2020 rules. I'd love for pitch rules, ball rules, variant rules (7s), more in depth team customisation, better stat tracking, more nuanced league creation rules etc. It needs something to differentiate it from the previous game and really going heavy on letting people customise things, bringing it closer to tabletop would be great. I'm talking customisation on the level of the great old FPS Timesplitters or the 90s Worms games for anyone who remembers those games.
This is Cyanide. We'll be lucky if the basic game works right. I'd be bowled over if they gave us 7s, despite the fact that it would be a huge hit.
NH Gunsmith wrote: Gotta say... the music in the teaser video really didn't seem to match haha.
The game itself looks great, but oof... that music was rough.
Typical Cyanide and their all over the place production values.
Anyway, I hope BB3 is something more than just BB2 with 2020 rules. I'd love for pitch rules, ball rules, variant rules (7s), more in depth team customisation, better stat tracking, more nuanced league creation rules etc. It needs something to differentiate it from the previous game and really going heavy on letting people customise things, bringing it closer to tabletop would be great. I'm talking customisation on the level of the great old FPS Timesplitters or the 90s Worms games for anyone who remembers those games.
We lost most extra content in new edition unfortunately.
Just the new boxed set or are they going to tell us what’s happening after that; potential further teams and all?
They’re definitely spending a bunch of time on mini previews considering what they’ve been putting up on Facebook (Dwarf referee model, amongst others).
So confirmation that there will be more teams, Spike continues uninterrupted, and, slightly disappointingly, the troll and ogre in the box are the existing plastic ones. Also, new referee models!
Wish the price would be announced. They bumped 2016 edition up to $125 from $100 in the past months. And since this includes ref models, two large figures and a hardback book, I will be surprised if it’s less than $170 USD.
Was slightly disappointed by the sloppy copy-paste errors we know so well from Necromunda are slipping into the soon-to-die 2016 edition of blood bowl:
Night Goblin (new wizard inducement) has a spell called Foot of Gork (or Mork):
Used at the end of your turn (even if it ended with a turnover). [...] If a player on the moving team is Knocked Down by the Foot of Gork (or Mmork) then the moving team does not suffer a turnover unless the player was carrying the ball at the time.
Not game breaking, but certainly unnecesary. Something else to notice is the 'hall of fame' team lists both team value with and without Disposable included in the cost. The Ogre hall of fame team does not, and it looks like their Team Value is calculated without reducing the cost for Disposable. Mostly irrelevant as nobody seems to use this (filler?) content. All of it is dead in a couple of months anway.
Pre-order on November 14th is the Second Season boxed set, Blood Bowl: The Official Rules (in hardback and ePub editions), the Wolfenurg Crypt Stealers, Treeman, gaming accessories and from Forge World...
So while still waiting for the made-to-order Indomitus box to arrive I wonder if BB Second Season will be priced similiar. Surprisingly even the new Warcry one was as expensive (160 EUR). Even more concerning if this will turn out to be a limited release, as long as stock lasts, and not available longtime.
Love the zoat, but shame it's FW. It probably helped that they had a reference with the blackstone fortress model, since this is one of the best looking BB FW models.
I'm gonna be the first one to say I'm not super keen on the Zoat. The pose just looks bizarre imo, they've gone and done that quadruped-tipping-over thing that they sometimes do, which I've never liked, spoils an otherwise nice looking sculpt for me. I much prefer the BSF Zoat.
PRE-ORDER NEXT WEEK: FANTASY FOOTBALL AT ITS FINEST! BLOOD BOWL: SECOND SEASON STARTER BOX IS HERE! This is considered the best game that Games Workshop makes, and the product is clearly getting the support it deserves now. At $140 MSRP GW wants to get everybody introduced and so do we, so expect us to help out even more!
So that’s 25 dollars more than the current starter right? I couldn’t find it on the site.
In exchange for that 25 dollars you get the full rules (in hardback no less), not a “get started rule set,” 2 star players, 2 big guys, and 2 referees? That sounds like a pretty damn good to me.
What is going on with this company? They release Catacombs which was half starter/half expansion that didn’t really help new players and also made current players buy stuff they didn’t need, and at a steep price point. Then they go and release a quality starter at the price a starter set should be.
Maybe they paid attention to the backlash from Catacombs and changed the price? Maybe they thought they couldn’t charge too much because people were wary of changing the BB rules. I don’t know, either way I’m not complaining. This box (at least to me) is a pretty good deal.
Sabotage! wrote: So that’s 25 dollars more than the current starter right? I couldn’t find it on the site.
In exchange for that 25 dollars you get the full rules (in hardback no less), not a “get started rule set,” 2 star players, 2 big guys, and 2 referees? That sounds like a pretty damn good to me.
What is going on with this company? They release Catacombs which was half starter/half expansion that didn’t really help new players and also made current players buy stuff they didn’t need, and at a steep price point. Then they go and release a quality starter at the price a starter set should be.
Maybe they paid attention to the backlash from Catacombs and changed the price? Maybe they thought they couldn’t charge too much because people were wary of changing the BB rules. I don’t know, either way I’m not complaining. This box (at least to me) is a pretty good deal.
Hopefully, This might be one of those games that they try to sell through Bookstores like Barnes and Nobles here in the states. It's a great value and has full teams with Big Guys. I could see them trying to get attention with this and draw in a new crowd.
So being familiar with Blitz Bowl, and not so much Blood Bowl proper, would it be logical to assume the new rulebook will have all the stats for previously released teams?
If it does, I'm mighty tempted...
highlord tamburlaine wrote: So being familiar with Blitz Bowl, and not so much Blood Bowl proper, would it be logical to assume the new rulebook will have all the stats for previously released teams?
If it does, I'm mighty tempted...
From the preorder preview:
Blood Bowl: The Official Rules are also available separately in hardback and ePub editions. As well as the updated rules and regulations for the new season, the book contains a detailed lore section with more Blood Bowl background than ever before. There are also rules for playing both league and exhibition games, rosters for all 21 current Blood Bowl teams, and details for 23 Star Players.
Thanks for posting the prices. The starter set has a very reasonable price. Providing the rulebook individually right from the start is also a good thing.
BloodBowl teams have a unique price point in the GW ecosystem. Almost every team is two sprues for ~$40. I wish the studio would adopt these constraints for the 40K/AoS lines. It would be nice to have some troops choices that didn't cost $50-60/box. This would obviously limit the number of dual-build kits, but the Lumineth Realmlords show that is not a hard and fast constraint. Either that, or go the Ossiarch Bonereaper route and do 20 troop boxes for $60. BloodBowl shows that you can make single-box sales economical at a $40 PP, why not line troops!
flaherty wrote: BloodBowl teams have a unique price point in the GW ecosystem. Almost every team is two sprues for ~$40. I wish the studio would adopt these constraints for the 40K/AoS lines. It would be nice to have some troops choices that didn't cost $50-60/box. This would obviously limit the number of dual-build kits, but the Lumineth Realmlords show that is not a hard and fast constraint. Either that, or go the Ossiarch Bonereaper route and do 20 troop boxes for $60. BloodBowl shows that you can make single-box sales economical at a $40 PP, why not line troops!
...probably because 40k and AoS don't have something like the NAF and Blood Bowl community as a whole, who were the ones who maintained the rules and helped grow the game when GW axed it. The BB fanbase did absolutely fine with rules, models, accessories for quite a long time without GW.
Price the new box too high, and the community will just go back to the Living Rulebook and third party pitches. Price the teams too high? Back to the pretty stellar third party team miniatures.
Feel like of all the games GW has/had, this one is one they have to tread carefully with the most, because the NAF and community really wouldn't be too upset at dumping GW and going back to the way things were pre 2016.
Blood Bowl has sold out in English to retailers. Seems like the same issue as it was with Indomitus, yet this time there was no info about it being so limited.
CragHack wrote: Blood Bowl has sold out in English to retailers. Seems like the same issue as it was with Indomitus, yet this time there was no info about it being so limited.
Uh, what?
Which blood bowl? The 2016 edition or the 2020 which hasn’t actually been released yet?
I very, very much doubt it’s an Indomitus situation because the new box is clearly a starter set, aka a perennial product, which Indomitus was repeatedly stated to not be.
CragHack wrote: Blood Bowl has sold out in English to retailers. Seems like the same issue as it was with Indomitus, yet this time there was no info about it being so limited.
Uh, what?
Which blood bowl? The 2016 edition or the 2020 which hasn’t actually been released yet?
I very, very much doubt it’s an Indomitus situation because the new box is clearly a starter set, aka a perennial product, which Indomitus was repeatedly stated to not be.
Yep - all gone. I suspect the online retailers snaffled up the lion's share. Why they didn't print more than they did I don't know. But then we don't know how many they actually did print. It may have seemed like a reasonable number....
Retailers get to order week before webstore preorders. Today we received an email stating it has been sold out. At least the english versions. They also stated that they will make more, but emprah knows when. The last 3 or so weeks have been, sadly, following the same 'first come - first served' pattern :(
CragHack wrote: Retailers get to order week before webstore preorders. Today we received an email stating it has been sold out. At least the english versions. They also stated that they will make more, but emprah knows when. The last 3 or so weeks have been, sadly, following the same 'first come - first served' pattern :(
And if the first served is Wayland.... good for them and their customers but a bit of a blow to your FLGS who run the tournaments.
All current team stats and star players are in the book (by current, I mean ones with a model currently sold by GW/FW).
Special play cards are not.
Future teams will be in Spike! Magazine and/or the Annuals.
bubber wrote: query: do you need to buy the cards or are they in the rule book?
thank you.
I used to put them in my rulebook for BB2016 but after we got hundreds of them I could no longer justify spending a lot of pages on them.
As for your question, the answer will be whatever generates most money for GW. And considering the hard reset, we will be drip-fed hundreds of cards in the future for new and existing gangs. Probably a Spike reset too?
bubber wrote: query: do you need to buy the cards or are they in the rule book?
thank you.
I used to put them in my rulebook for BB2016 but after we got hundreds of them I could no longer justify spending a lot of pages on them.
As for your question, the answer will be whatever generates most money for GW. And considering the hard reset, we will be drip-fed hundreds of cards in the future for new and existing gangs. Probably a Spike reset too?
Thank you. Not a fan of card-collecting to be competitive. If I was, I'd play Magic.
bubber wrote: query: do you need to buy the cards or are they in the rule book?
thank you.
I used to put them in my rulebook for BB2016 but after we got hundreds of them I could no longer justify spending a lot of pages on them.
As for your question, the answer will be whatever generates most money for GW. And considering the hard reset, we will be drip-fed hundreds of cards in the future for new and existing gangs. Probably a Spike reset too?
Thank you. Not a fan of card-collecting to be competitive. If I was, I'd play Magic.
You aren’t likely to have more than one or two available in a given game except very rarely (cup finals maybe) so it’s not like they’re a core mechanic. Also the rules seem to prefer a single common set of decks so having “better” cards isn’t a thing. And you can spend your gold on many other things which are significantly less random.
So don’t let the existence of cards put you off the game; they’re mostly just an occasionally very useful tool a canny coach can exploit but probably only if they can think more than one turn ahead but you don’t have to use them even if available (some leagues and tournaments banned them in the previous edition).
bubber wrote: query: do you need to buy the cards or are they in the rule book?
thank you.
I used to put them in my rulebook for BB2016 but after we got hundreds of them I could no longer justify spending a lot of pages on them.
As for your question, the answer will be whatever generates most money for GW. And considering the hard reset, we will be drip-fed hundreds of cards in the future for new and existing gangs. Probably a Spike reset too?
Thank you. Not a fan of card-collecting to be competitive. If I was, I'd play Magic.
You aren’t likely to have more than one or two available in a given game except very rarely (cup finals maybe) so it’s not like they’re a core mechanic. Also the rules seem to prefer a single common set of decks so having “better” cards isn’t a thing. And you can spend your gold on many other things which are significantly less random.
So don’t let the existence of cards put you off the game; they’re mostly just an occasionally very useful tool a canny coach can exploit but probably only if they can think more than one turn ahead but you don’t have to use them even if available (some leagues and tournaments banned them in the previous edition).
I've never actually played in a league that used the cards, from my experience seems to be very much something that GW tried to push last edition and just wasn't adopted by the hardcore players. Only time I've ever used them was when messing around in friendly matches. The NAF Community are very conservative and the video game didn't include them due to being pre BB16.
CragHack wrote: Stockists can now make made to order orders for BB starter that will arrive 2021 01 08.
I presume you are not in the UK (Lithuania flag suggests ) as my LGS (UK) does not get to put his orders in with GW till Monday after pre-order is announced.
I was hearing the other day the store rep was pushing the flgs to order a full set of four of each team because once this wave goes thru they’re not expected to restock until late ‘21 or early ‘22.
AduroT wrote: I was hearing the other day the store rep was pushing the flgs to order a full set of four of each team because once this wave goes thru they’re not expected to restock until late ‘21 or early ‘22.
AduroT wrote: I was hearing the other day the store rep was pushing the flgs to order a full set of four of each team because once this wave goes thru they’re not expected to restock until late ‘21 or early ‘22.
Sounds like absolute bollox to me.
Sounds like someone saw a date like 08/01/2020 and thought they meant August.
AduroT wrote: I was hearing the other day the store rep was pushing the flgs to order a full set of four of each team because once this wave goes thru they’re not expected to restock until late ‘21 or early ‘22.
Sounds like absolute bollox to me.
Sounds like someone saw a date like 08/01/2020 and thought they meant August.
I mean, I’m just repeating what the GW sales rep said, so take it as you want.
As of yesterday, UK store owners were advised it was sold out. I expect that to happen to other regions as well, US, etc. Quantities look as though they are going to be very limited, much like Indomitus. Did anyone ever get a ‘made to order’ copy of that?
https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/5005
Kanluwen wrote: The Indomitus made to orders have started to come out. They were said to be Nov-December for the 'second wave'.
Just wondering. GW upset me quite a bit with that whole farce, and I ended up not getting one at all. I’m glad that people that did are starting to get their stuff.
Are there supply issues with the starter box only, or is all the new stuff affected? I'm considering to just buy the rule book, maybe the special play cards.
Just with the starter box, so far. Pitch, cards and dice will sell out on Saturday, as usual. I guess the rulebook and Necro team will be available for some more time. Mostly b/c rulebook is available with starter, so quite a few people will get it.
Yes it has almost definitely been the main factor behind the shortages. The last time we had these shortages on just about everything, the shortages eased immediately following the first wave of Indomitus.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Quite liking the team rankings concept. Certainly it helps someone as useless at Blood Bowl as I not completely handicap themself from the get go.
I'm a beginner. I bought the snotling team. so....
Gonna dig out my 1st gen pump wagon so don't have 2 of the same Or might buy a last gen one. Just need to find one first!!!
I'm a beginner. I bought the snotling team. so....
Good lord, isn't playing as Snotlings supposed to be like nightmare mode?
Depends on if you think the sound of snotlings going “squish” is hilarious or not… just remember, max out on fungus flingas and trolls, because bombs don’t care about the opponent’s Strength and throwing a Flinga into their back line won’t cause a turnover. Also bombs are much less of a liability in 2nd season. Also hire the black gobbo, because fouling is another thing that doesn’t care that your entire team is S1.
Basically, you can win with snotlings, but it’s going to be the dirtiest, cheatiest squeaker of a game ever played… then you have to do it again next match.
AduroT wrote: I was hearing the other day the store rep was pushing the flgs to order a full set of four of each team because once this wave goes thru they’re not expected to restock until late ‘21 or early ‘22.
Sounds like absolute bollox to me.
Late '20 early '21 would sound like a more likely scenario, maybe a mishearing.
Everything is slightly behind schedule as a result of the Coronavirus shutdown, and while I imagine some things have been shifted around in terms of prioritising, the "plan" is probably pretty much as it would have been, albeit shifted back a few months.
Restocks should be expected to happen about as quickly as they normally do (and as a FFG customer, I find GW's restocking to be pretty quick), with allowances made for the UKs stretched postal service since Coronavirus has affected that, too.
I'm a beginner. I bought the snotling team. so....
Good lord, isn't playing as Snotlings supposed to be like nightmare mode?
Depends on if you think the sound of snotlings going “squish” is hilarious or not… just remember, max out on fungus flingas and trolls, because bombs don’t care about the opponent’s Strength and throwing a Flinga into their back line won’t cause a turnover. Also bombs are much less of a liability in 2nd season. Also hire the black gobbo, because fouling is another thing that doesn’t care that your entire team is S1.
Basically, you can win with snotlings, but it’s going to be the dirtiest, cheatiest squeaker of a game ever played… then you have to do it again next match.
Crikey. One of these days I'll have to give Blood Bowl a shot, probably not with Snotlings!
ekwatts wrote: and as a FFG customer, I find GW's restocking to be pretty quick
In fairness, that is a very, very low bar.
Pretty tempted to get one of each of the Undead teams just to mix and match the zombies and ghouls, and (probably? not too familiar with the game) enough figures for a complete team of either. Also, those Halloween dice are really rather nice.
So anyone who was worried about the last 6 teams (Amazon, Chaos Dwarf, High Elf, Norse, Tomb Kings and Vampire) that existed in previous editions and don't have rules in the new book, you can still play them.
Any of the teams that have never had minis and have only appeared in videogames or unofficial rules docs (Khorne, Slann/Kislev, Bretonnians) are still not officially supported. Time will tell if we get official rules and minis for them. If not, I'm sure some fans of the teams will convert them to the new edition unofficially, and they may (or may not) get widespread acceptance from there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh also, the store I work at got our demo copy a bit early, so let me know if you have any lingering rules questions. I think most of it is out there already, but if anything is still uncertain, I can have a look.
So anyone who was worried about the last 6 teams (Amazon, Chaos Dwarf, High Elf, Norse, Tomb Kings and Vampire) that existed in previous editions and don't have rules in the new book, you can still play them.
Nobody seriously thought they were being dropped. You'd have to be too cynical and pessimistic to be able to operate in normal life to think that would be the case, or be trolling for a reaction.
You can pre-order your Necromantic Horror team from this Saturday* alongside the Blood Bowl: Second Season Edition. In order to make sure everyone can get their hands on a copy of the new boxed game, we’re limiting it to one per customer – we don’t want any of you eager coaches to miss out on sporting glory!
From the article today on the Necromantic Horrors.
ekwatts wrote: Nobody seriously thought they were being dropped. You'd have to be too cynical and pessimistic to be able to operate in normal life to think that would be the case, or be trolling for a reaction.
Pop on back to page 131 of this post and you can find at least 3 people in various degrees of doubt. Cynical, pessimistic, or trolling? Probably. But the doubt was expressed, so I figured posting a link now that we can finally extinguish that doubt was worthwhile. There's no need to be so dismissive.
I would have taken a 50/50 bet that they wouldn’t. Based on what they did with necromunda, I would still take that bet that they will remove the legacy teams download (or edit it to remove teams) once they Spike or otherwise update them.
So anyone who was worried about the last 6 teams (Amazon, Chaos Dwarf, High Elf, Norse, Tomb Kings and Vampire) that existed in previous editions and don't have rules in the new book, you can still play them.
Nobody seriously thought they were being dropped. You'd have to be too cynical and pessimistic to be able to operate in normal life to think that would be the case, or be trolling for a reaction.
privateer4hire wrote: I would have taken a 50/50 bet that they wouldn’t. Based on what they did with necromunda, I would still take that bet that they will remove the legacy teams download (or edit it to remove teams) once they Spike or otherwise update them.
Once they get a Spike magazine, the Teams of Legend .pdf will probably be redundant anyway, I imagine some will have significant changes. Doesn't really matter if some of the teams have stats floating around, all the BB2016 teams did as well when Spikes were released but enough changed around inducements, star players, new positionals that it made buying the Spike worthwhile.
That would make brains explode more than if they had charged $210 USD for the new edition
Yeah…the Blood Bowl world never had an End Times because everyone has televised sports now, even Nagash, so blowing it all up and starting again quietly dropped off everyone’s things-to-do list.
Of course, the new Broken Realms books could, conceivably, herald Nuffle’s resurrection in that universe. Just need a Dispossessed prospecting mission to stumble on the right Stormvault¹ while battling some Orc raiders I guess…
¹ Of course Nuffle’s sacred temple is locked up in a Stormvault; Sigmar tolerates no challengers to his power and Nuffle’s has far greater potential…
The pre orders are up on the NZ site now if anyone wants to look at those 360 spins of the minis. The necromantic stuff is nowhere to be seen though. Did I miss something or was their stuff supposed to go on pre order at the same time?
Completely missed that it was a 2 week pre order window, makes sense if they think this will be a big release.
I see the Necromantic team cards are selling out fast online at FLGS, why do GW continue to under produce card stock items for their game? Are their suppliers not up to it or is it a choice to reduce online skus?
2 Weeks? Oh well, I guess PS5 release and working on Sat will keep me busy enough, anyway.
I guess it's a testament to crazy pricing for everything, but the (weird) 102€ price tag seems reasonable enough. I was fearing 150€ or something with those star players, refs and bigguns. I might spend the 50€ voucher I got as a bday gift from colleagues and just buy it locally instead of UK discounter importing.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Completely missed that it was a 2 week pre order window, makes sense if they think this will be a big release.
I see the Necromantic team cards are selling out fast online at FLGS, why do GW continue to under produce card stock items for their game? Are their suppliers not up to it or is it a choice to reduce online skus?
You can make a Stormcast themed team with the available rosters in the new core rulebook. It sounds like heresy, but use the Chaos Chosen roster as the base.
Stormcast Liberators with weapons snipped off= Chosen Blockers.
Humans with leftover Liberator shields= Beastman Runners, just call them shield bashing when they Blitz and use the Horns skill.
Whatever big model you pick = your Ogre/Minotaur/Troll.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Completely missed that it was a 2 week pre order window, makes sense if they think this will be a big release.
I see the Necromantic team cards are selling out fast online at FLGS, why do GW continue to under produce card stock items for their game? Are their suppliers not up to it or is it a choice to reduce online skus?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Slightly OT.....but is it just me, or does BB have the most consistently cool range in all of GW’s offerings?
Bags of character in every team.
100% agree. They kind of HAVE to go the extra mile with then though, because if they weren't fantastic... why would people buy them over the absolutely stunning multitude of third party minis available?
Also helps that the Blood Bowl alternate timeline is just fun to begin with. It doesn't take itself seriously, so there is tons of freedom making the minis.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Slightly OT.....but is it just me, or does BB have the most consistently cool range in all of GW’s offerings?
Bags of character in every team.
100% agree. They kind of HAVE to go the extra mile with then though, because if they weren't fantastic... why would people buy them over the absolutely stunning multitude of third party minis available?
Also helps that the Blood Bowl alternate timeline is just fun to begin with. It doesn't take itself seriously, so there is tons of freedom making the minis.
Yeah, GW has really killed it with the plastic Blood Bowl teams. The Blood Bowl Old World is my favorite GW has ever done (even as much as I love the normal Old World and 40k). The fact that is it is so willing to poke fun at itself and even the way the rules are presented just put me in a good mood. Playing Blood Bowl is almost always a good experience because at worst you get to laugh at the absurd shanigans that happen on the pitch. I think it helps a lot that most of the player base buys in to the tone set and make for some great people to hang out with while rolling some dice.
Lizardmen were a bit disappointing. Wood elves are okay but I just don't like the catsuit aesthetic (have considered getting a box and carefully shaving off the fabric folds on the upper bodies of males and arms of females so they're more exposed flesh).
I agree that the plastic teams are mostly really good, which makes it all the more jarring to see the majority of the Forge World support models being poor.
The difference in quality between the 2016 boxed game and the new one is huge as well. The full rulebook with all current teams, star players , big guys and referee miniatures in the box plus the two starter teams are markedly improved sculpts and designs.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Lizardmen were a bit disappointing. Wood elves are okay but I just don't like the catsuit aesthetic (have considered getting a box and carefully shaving off the fabric folds on the upper bodies of males and arms of females so they're more exposed flesh).
Yeah I hated the catsuit aesthetic, would have much preferred them actually looking like woodland elves rather than Cathy Freeman in the 2000 Olympics, cost GW a sale from me (I'm sure they're devastated). The Dark Elves are a bit of a mixed bag as well, although the witch elves look great. I loved the Lizards though - so long as the mouthguards were snipped off the saurus.
The difference in quality between the 2016 boxed game and the new one is huge as well. The full rulebook with all current teams, star players , big guys and referee miniatures in the box plus the two starter teams are markedly improved sculpts and designs.
BB2016 was very much an experimental project, they boshed together the existing rules with some minor tweaks and 2 out of the 4 plastic teams they'd created and put it out there to see how it sold. It sold far beyond their expectations, which proved that specialist games were a viable part of GW again. Originally they were going to do resin teams for everyone but human/orc/dwarf/skaven but the sales of 16 were so good they completely reworked their plans to put out plastic teams. Given this, it's not surprising that the BB2016 boxset was a bit basic, what I'm most surprised about it how cheap (in GW terms) the new boxset was despite it's massive improvement.
%!?X& jesus wheres is the wight, don't get me wrong the miniatures are amazing 
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