Does anyone know if newer teams not covered in the initial release of Blitz Bowl will receive rules for use in Blitz Bowl?
Not having Blitz Bowl rules is the only thing keeping me from buying factions like Undead and Slannn.
I will say this is a huge bummer. Blitz Bowl is a super fun and quick game, and I think it would be awesome for GW to put out some supplemental rules for the new teams. I even wrote GW customer service requesting, but I think they approached the game as a one and done kind of thing.
Zetan wrote: GW has never even made a Slann model that wasn't large and sitting on a platform.
Nope, GW had a small range of metal Slann figures that more closely resembled generic fantasy lizard/frog men. The big fat platform-sitters came after an extended absence from the catalog and fluff.
Yep they were even on display at WHF this year alongside a couple of old Zoats.
Huh, that's neat, I was unaware. I still think it's unlikely they'll go in that direction with anything new (since all the fluff says that most of them are extinct and the ones that aren't are all fat now) but I'd love to be wrong.
When you are nearly extinct, the best thing to do is to create Blood Bowl teams! It is a sure way to bounce back in no time. Just ask the Elves!
Haha, exactly.
It's an interesting question, I suppose, and more likely than the weird suggestions people keep making about the possibility of AoS elements creeping into Blood Bowl (again: not happening).
Blood Bowl has a timeline, and it is distinct from Warhammer Fantasy as it's effectively an "alternate" reality. Through 1st and 2nd edition, Blood Bowl was a gigantic, worldpsanning franchise within the alternate Warhammer world. The fluff for the Slann race was mostly fully-formed by the time they popped up as a playable team in the 2nd Edition Star Players expansion book, former space travellers that had become so degenerate that they would engage in Blood Bowl, but they never received specific Blood Bowl miniatures and, in Warhammer, ended up as the fat space frog wizards we now know less than a decade later.
The "current" Blood Bowl background is based off the mid 90s 3rd edition box set, in which the NAF collapses and Blood Bowl becomes a much smaller-scale affair. Those of us old enough to remember this period of GW history will remember how some of the newer versions of their boxed side games during this period were brought much further into the established "Warhammer" universe. Talisman, as an example, become overtly "Warhammer-ised". So I believe the collapse of the NAF storyline to be an attempt by GW to more closely incorporate BB into WHFB, and you can see this in many of the models: while some of the 2nd edition models looked like a mashup of fantasy tropes/races and sporting gear, the 3rd edition models looked more overtly like fantasy models with the weaponry snipped away.
The 3rd edition rulebook eventually evolved into the LRB model that gave rise to the 6th edition ruleset that was used as the basis for the 2016 box set. In spite of that, I've noticed that the more anarchic, experimental feel of 2nd edition has been creeping back in via the fluff and the models. Zoats? Fat Skaven? Gobbler Grimlich? So I guess the return of the Space Slann team comes down to whether or not the Blood Bowl design team feel like inserting a tiny bit of fluff explaining that not all of them turned into fat floating frog wizards... There is, at the very least, a precedent for the team, and explaining it in the fluff is an easier bet than trying to shoehorn Judge Dredd in.
Who knows?
Truth is, they could come back. Between that and a trolls-n-snotlings team and maybe a polystyrene astrogranite pitch and I'll never complain again.
That's also the one thing keeping me from really buying in to the fantasy football stuff. I need something fast and easy to play.
What's weird, to me, is that they gave the Dark Elves Blitz Bowl rules with White Dwarf...and then they stopped doing that?
Yeah, when I saw that I thought it was going to be a semi-regular thing, but was disappointed how quickly they scrapped it. I don't think it would cost GW a ton of money to include the rules of the newer teams in the next BB compendium or put out a card pack. Maybe they could even make a "non BN" edition and sell a few more copies of a product they have already invested in.
That's also the one thing keeping me from really buying in to the fantasy football stuff. I need something fast and easy to play.
What's weird, to me, is that they gave the Dark Elves Blitz Bowl rules with White Dwarf...and then they stopped doing that?
Yeah, when I saw that I thought it was going to be a semi-regular thing, but was disappointed how quickly they scrapped it. I don't think it would cost GW a ton of money to include the rules of the newer teams in the next BB compendium or put out a card pack. Maybe they could even make a "non BN" edition and sell a few more copies of a product they have already invested in.
There's a rumor that they're doing something "big" right?
Maybe a part of that is setting up a compendium with Blitz Bowl "simplified" rules for everyone and advanced rules?
That's also the one thing keeping me from really buying in to the fantasy football stuff. I need something fast and easy to play.
What's weird, to me, is that they gave the Dark Elves Blitz Bowl rules with White Dwarf...and then they stopped doing that?
Yeah, when I saw that I thought it was going to be a semi-regular thing, but was disappointed how quickly they scrapped it. I don't think it would cost GW a ton of money to include the rules of the newer teams in the next BB compendium or put out a card pack. Maybe they could even make a "non BN" edition and sell a few more copies of a product they have already invested in.
There's a rumor that they're doing something "big" right?
Maybe a part of that is setting up a compendium with Blitz Bowl "simplified" rules for everyone and advanced rules?
Something like that would be fantastic. Blitz ball is a blast and probably my favorite one off game GW ever did. Having Blitz Bowl rules in a compendium would go a long way to make a shorter officially supported version of the game. I definitely wouldn't mind if they did an official rule set for sevens either, but I think Blitz Bowl is more likely.
Thargrim wrote: Probably within the next two months, other than that no clue. They will be previewed on twitch at some point, so when they get their preview then we know their release is very soon.
Thargrim wrote: Probably within the next two months, other than that no clue. They will be previewed on twitch at some point, so when they get their preview then we know their release is very soon.
But i want them NOW!
Same here.
A GW worker at Gen Con hinted end of August but it doesn't appear like it is happening...
Lizardmen are up for pre order next weekend along with all their accessories plus some new generic red dice. I'll probably pick them up. Not coming at a good time for me though, having spent so much the last couple months.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I'd wait for the inevitable re design, unless your desperate for that particular model
No word on it yet but all the warhammer Community stated was:
"There’s no reason for your Lizardmen to be saur losers – for one week only, you’ll be able to get hold of the classic Kroxigor on a Made to Order basis. If you want to add some brute strength to your team then you need this player."
No, it doesn't. You're reading far too much into that sentence. They've actually repeatedly said the opposite - that there'll be models for everything, in time.
All it means is that, as there's no new Kroxigor [I[now[/I], here's the old one if you want it. After all, the old metal Dark Elves, assassin, Chaos, Wood Elves and Halflings have all been up for Made To Order. By your argument, that would mean that there'd be no new Lizwardmen team, and yet ...
AndrewGPaul wrote: No, it doesn't. You're reading far too much into that sentence. They've actually repeatedly said the opposite - that there'll be models for everything, in time.
All it means is that, as there's no new Kroxigor [I[now[/I], here's the old one if you want it. After all, the old metal Dark Elves, assassin, Chaos, Wood Elves and Halflings have all been up for Made To Order. By your argument, that would mean that there'd be no new Lizwardmen team, and yet ...
What argument? It's a question. I don't understand your part about no new Lizardmen team. They previewed them and I saw them at Gen Con.
AndrewGPaul wrote: No, it doesn't. You're reading far too much into that sentence. They've actually repeatedly said the opposite - that there'll be models for everything, in time.
All it means is that, as there's no new Kroxigor [I[now[/I], here's the old one if you want it. After all, the old metal Dark Elves, assassin, Chaos, Wood Elves and Halflings have all been up for Made To Order. By your argument, that would mean that there'd be no new Lizwardmen team, and yet ...
What argument? It's a question. I don't understand your part about no new Lizardmen team. They previewed them and I saw them at Gen Con.
The word "argument" in this case means something more like "statement", "reasoning", or "logic".
He's just saying that they have done similar before .offering an old.version of a product before (sometimes a long time before) it gets a new re-design.
I wouldn't expect a.kroxigor this year, but maybe next. I think they need.to see how well it sells.before deciding if it will be resin or plastic. (I think it'll end up being plastic, as I suspect Lizardmen a strongly awaited team, having appeal for both bloodbowl players and people like myself who are just desperate for updated lizardmen models to convert)
There was rumor about ogres, but I wasn't buying into that rumor. There are only so many teams left. I'd assume Necromantic or Chorfs would be next tbh. I'd figure another undead team since we only have one so far (and we have 3 elf teams so I hope they give those a little break for a while).
zamerion wrote: I guess they will announce it in the bloodandglory seminar, but Is there any theory about the next team?
When is the blood and glory seminar?
1,2,3 november
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Thargrim wrote: There was rumor about ogres, but I wasn't buying into that rumor. There are only so many teams left. I'd assume Necromantic or Chorfs would be next tbh. I'd figure another undead team since we only have one so far (and we have 3 elf teams so I hope they give those a little break for a while).
Vampire team its and original team? or was it added later?
zamerion wrote: Vampire team its and original team? or was it added later?
Later. Original teams left are High Elves and Chaos Dwarfs at this point.
After that, you had Norse and Amazons followed by Ogres and then Necromantic and Vampire teams. Norse could be combined into a Kislev team perhaps and then you have Bretonnians which only recently made its first appearance in the Video Game...
Hopefully they don't go full Chaos marauder with the Norse and they retain more of a classic look. I'd expect them sooner rather than later. Doubt we'll ever see Kislev as they're purely from the Cyanide game (and Slann are never coming back as a team though we may get something similarly leap-orientated).
We're never getting Khorne or Bretonnian as they're currently envisaged; the lead designer doesn't like their rules (given they're fan made) or background. Personally I'd like Brets to get a rework and an offical release if only for GW to have some knight models again. So long as they don't attempt the ill fated 'Human Noble' team from the 2016 app as that was just awful.
In terms of which of those that will receive a plastic team box, I'd say "all of them" apart from Necromantic, which I imagine will likely be expanded on with forgeworld resin players. MAYBE. But who knows, they might get a box all of their own!
In terms of which is more likely to be next, I really don't know. If I were the design team I'd be most excited on working on the Chaos Dwarf, Amazon or Vampire teams, but that's me.
Amazons wouldn't be too hard for them, I mean they are pretty much Eschers sans the guns and poison vials! (or should I say Eschers are pretty much them?)
They've said previously that Necromantic will get their own plastic kit, which is excellent if still the case.
Pact are a tricky one because they're so diverse, even beyond Underworlds. Technically can be made now but I'm sure a more desicated set of at least the linesmen in plastic would make them feel more chaotic. Probably an excuse to add in all the others as a resin upgrade plus all the big guys... they're a niche team for a reason.
Who knows what's next. I'd guess Norse but could be anything now. We know they're workshopping brand new team concepts for longer down the line.
In terms of which of those that will receive a plastic team box, I'd say "all of them" apart from Necromantic, which I imagine will likely be expanded on with forgeworld resin players. MAYBE. But who knows, they might get a box all of their own!
In terms of which is more likely to be next, I really don't know. If I were the design team I'd be most excited on working on the Chaos Dwarf, Amazon or Vampire teams, but that's me.
To clarify, Underworld and Chaos Pact/Renegades are already "released" insofar as it is possible to construct those teams with existing releases. They most likely won't be getting their own plastic box.
AndrewGPaul wrote: No, it doesn't. You're reading far too much into that sentence. They've actually repeatedly said the opposite - that there'll be models for everything, in time.
All it means is that, as there's no new Kroxigor [I[now[/I], here's the old one if you want it. After all, the old metal Dark Elves, assassin, Chaos, Wood Elves and Halflings have all been up for Made To Order. By your argument, that would mean that there'd be no new Lizwardmen team, and yet ...
What argument? It's a question. I don't understand your part about no new Lizardmen team. They previewed them and I saw them at Gen Con.
The word "argument" in this case means something more like "statement", "reasoning", or "logic".
He's just saying that they have done similar before .offering an old.version of a product before (sometimes a long time before) it gets a new re-design.
I wouldn't expect a.kroxigor this year, but maybe next. I think they need.to see how well it sells.before deciding if it will be resin or plastic. (I think it'll end up being plastic, as I suspect Lizardmen a strongly awaited team, having appeal for both bloodbowl players and people like myself who are just desperate for updated lizardmen models to convert)
I'm super pumped. Yeah, I'm buying multiple boxes for use as Guard, chameleons and skinks.
I was holding off buying any new teams except for Lizzies and Chaos Dwarves. Of course, I would also make an exception for Brettonians, but I do not expect to ever see them in BB.
Chaos Dwarfs would be a logical next team, they are pretty popular, don't have anything very similar to convert from in the GW line, and are one of the last warbands left that isn't just "different humans" (Norse, Amazons). They'd be my guess also.
So thursday lizardmen will be on the twitch stream. I guess we will find out what the new chameleon skink positional does. Lizardmen are already a fairly powerful team, so i'm kinda unsure about any change to them.
I'm willing to bet the Treeman will be Plastic and the Krox Resin, which means the Krox will probably be released faster.
The only two big guys in plastic are multi team ones. The Minotaur is a weird outlier, though idk if that's because most Chosen teams don't run a Mino, Pact is kind of Niche and Chorfs are kind of far down the line, or...
I'm thinking that the Norsr team will probably be released around the same time as the darkoath kits for a slaves to.darkness revamp for AoS, if it's really happening in order to give us a month or two of Barbarian splendor.
And I would be fine with that, as I'm always in the market more good quality.Hyborian era style plastic minis.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I'm thinking that the Norsr team will probably be released around the same time as the darkoath kits for a slaves to.darkness revamp for AoS, if it's really happening in order to give us a month or two of Barbarian splendor.
And I would be fine with that, as I'm always in the market more good quality.Hyborian era style plastic minis.
Doubtful. I don't think there has been any real relationship or deliberate correlation between AoS releases and Blood Bowl releases. So using AoS as a predictor won't be very fruitful.
Well they talked about chaos dwarfs for sure having hats during the stream. So it's likely they're in the pipeline, even if they aren't next.
The chameleon skink could be useful if you could level him up to have sidestep and diving tackle. I might not take them on a starting roster but only if I accumulated extra money after a few games.
I just saw the new figures for my personal favorite BB team are up for pre-order. The Lizardmen.
What a disappointment.
Ignoring for the moment the stupid team name, i find these new figures just totally uninspiring. The Saurus are bland and the skinks are amateurish looking sculpts. I'm tempted to try and find enough of the old figures to build a new team.
I'm just annoyed by all the one foot poses that don't use a slot base peg. It's the wood elf team all over again. I do like these sculpts though. They could be better, but I prefer them over most third party options and they're plastic.
mdauben wrote: I just saw the new figures for my personal favorite BB team are up for pre-order. The Lizardmen.
What a disappointment.
Ignoring for the moment the stupid team name, i find these new figures just totally uninspiring. The Saurus are bland and the skinks are amateurish looking sculpts. I'm tempted to try and find enough of the old figures to build a new team.
How many years of waiting, for this?
I don’t mind the saurus other than the mouth guard which looks easy to remove.
The skinks I thought I might like more upon seeing a 360, but no, not liking them. I’ll still probably buy a box to get the saurus and use my old skinks (which are basically just regular skink models with the weapons cut off). I might be able to utilise some open hands from the skinks on my old models, but they look a different scale.
It’s disappointing in the sense that all they needed to do was copy the aesthetic of the video game. If they had of done that I think they’d have turned out well.
Pact are a tricky one because they're so diverse, even beyond Underworlds. Technically can be made now but I'm sure a more desicated set of at least the linesmen in plastic would make them feel more chaotic. Probably an excuse to add in all the others as a resin upgrade plus all the big guys... they're a niche team for a reason.
To clarify, Underworld and Chaos Pact/Renegades are already "released" insofar as it is possible to construct those teams with existing releases. They most likely won't be getting their own plastic box.
Forgeworld released tokens for Chaos Pact/Renegades last year, so as far as GW is concerned, this team is already "released" and finished. I have also seen GW painted Chaos Pact/Renegade team using all of the existing models from other teams. Would be very strange if they decided to re-do all that now.
So I can't find the lizardmen dice for sale on GW, amazon or ebay. Is that the quickest Blood Bowl dice has ever sold out? Wood Elf and Halfling dice can still be found for sale. And AH said they usually make enough of these to last up to six months. I thought I had at least a month or two to get these before they would be gone.
The tails look pretty flexible; looks to me like it's just a third "leg" for the purposes of putting on shorts.
it looks like a giant cord of muscle to me, and far too thick to bend in a way that would let it slide into the shorts.
It's sad, as I've been waiting for them for so long, but everytime I see the team I like them less and less because of that one design choice. (The shorts.)
highlord tamburlaine wrote: So in some news tangentally related to Blood Bowl, I was searching on Barnes and Noble for which stores had Blitzbowl in stock.
Turns out there are going to be repackaged Blitzbowl teams coming to B & N, along with a paint set!
So far they have most of the released teams- Halflings, Skaven, Undead, and Chaos. Each team is just a single sprue of six models at 20 dollars.
Paint set is ten 12ml bottles, clippers, brush, and glue for 35.
So there is hope of getting some of the other teams into Blitzbowl after all!
This is the best news I have seen in a while. My wife and I love Blitz Bowl and the Undead are my favorite team in normal BB, so that makes me a happy camper. Thanks for let us know, I don't think I would have discovered this on my own.
Anyone buying the Lizardmen? How do the models look in the flesh?
I'm really torn. I kinda like the Saurus but the Skinks are putting me off. Already have a converted Lizardmen team, but it's out of scale with the current BB range. Tempted to buy a box just to see if they look better in person than they do on the pictures.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: So in some news tangentally related to Blood Bowl, I was searching on Barnes and Noble for which stores had Blitzbowl in stock.
Turns out there are going to be repackaged Blitzbowl teams coming to B & N, along with a paint set!
That's excellent news, thanks for passing it along! Unfortunately, it doesn't look like B&N ships to the EU, so I hope that these team sets, or at least the cards, become available here as well.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: So in some news tangentally related to Blood Bowl, I was searching on Barnes and Noble for which stores had Blitzbowl in stock.
Turns out there are going to be repackaged Blitzbowl teams coming to B & N, along with a paint set!
That's excellent news, thanks for passing it along! Unfortunately, it doesn't look like B&N ships to the EU, so I hope that these team sets, or at least the cards, become available here as well.
I was reading on Boardgamegeek the other night and I saw several people used PayPal with B&N to get their orders shipped internationally. I can't promise it works but I saw several people claim it does.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Anyone buying the Lizardmen? How do the models look in the flesh?
I'm really torn. I kinda like the Saurus but the Skinks are putting me off. Already have a converted Lizardmen team, but it's out of scale with the current BB range. Tempted to buy a box just to see if they look better in person than they do on the pictures.
They really do, IMO. MUCH better. Well, the Sauri once you repose the arms and bend the legs a bit. That's what I did for the first three - and I cut the mouth guards off - and they're pretty imposing now. Stock poses look more like tripping, but the Sauri are really stocky and have fantastic faces. They're probably standing close to a head taller than an old Saurus and have legs twice as big around and ripped serratus anterior showing.
Before assembly I shaved off a bit of fabric around the tails to sculpt some armour plates /decorations over their tail pants, now idea if that'll be enough or if the dremel will have to come out. For the second group of three I did a head- and tailswap between two of them, was pretty easy and really changes the models up while keeping a realistic flow to the pose of the one dude I glues back together. Freely chose from the arms, too, you'll have to fill gaps and clip/cut off around the pecs and shoulders, but now no.4 has an unique pose - and a power fist made from Stegadon masonry bits. The Skink head dresses also fit pretty well. I gave the lounging Saurus the Chameleon one, there I left his head scales bit off and it was a snug fit and the feathers obscure all view of the missing scales, anyway. The power fist dude will get one of the regular Skink ones, this time with his head properly assembled.
Now, the Skinks. They're...less good. They're HUGE. They're taller than the "hero" Skinks from the Stegadon kit I've used for my never completed team. Their heads are easily 50% bigger than an old one's, maybe close to double. Their crests are bigger than an old Skink! The Chameleons are pretty fun to look at, but their hands are completely devoid of detail on the inside.
So. I assembled on camo dude with arms from the Skinks and a crest from a 5th ed Skink. Bend his leg a bit so he has both feets on the base (btw, 32s are way to small for the splayed leg Saurus and ridiculously big for the Skinks...) and his new arms give him a startled look, like he's about to wring his hands because a ball will hit him in the head...or a charging Minotaur. I love him. For the others I might try and style their actual heads into masks. Size-wise it is believable that a "normal" head could fit into there And they look more like the bird skull mask from the "priest" from the Stegadon kit than Skink heads. It's...bad. Kinda.
TL;DR: The Sauri, with some reposing are ace, even better when you slightly kit bash them and sculpt a bit. They look like they were MADE to go with my HellDorado Kartikeya (Kroxigor). The Skinks can be used, but I might stick with my Stegadon crew outside of stealth dudes.
PS: I might give the Slann idol stubby legs and run him as a morbidly obese Chameleon Skink.
Edit: Turns out I left a Saurus in my dad's play room for the grandkids and I brought my half built new guys over to play at the family gathering. So, crappy pics for a quick comparison. Linked, because they're bad. This is punchy with his massive gauntlet and head+tail swap The bright spot on the snout is where I cut his horn ornament off.
I posted on one BGG thread about the Blitz teams - I picked up a copy of the core game in person (along with the WD containing the Dark Elf cards from the GW store) when I was over in New York, and can confirm that whilst I couldn't check out through the B&N cart online to ship to anywhere in the EU, by going through the Paypal option, there was no difficulty in choosing UK shipping whatsoever. I received a shipping notification a couple of days later, and the two new teams (with cards - that's the main thing for me) should hopefulyl arrive this coming week.
If GW wants to make up the ground they lost by abandoning Blood Bowl for so many years, they still have some catching up to do compared to third-party sellers. It feels like GW used their B Team to sculpt the new Lizardmen. Totally workmanlike, absolutely nothing special. In comparison, check out Greebo's Lizards. They blow GW's out of the water.
jmw23 wrote: If GW wants to make up the ground they lost by abandoning Blood Bowl for so many years, they still have some catching up to do compared to third-party sellers. It feels like GW used their B Team to sculpt the new Lizardmen. Totally workmanlike, absolutely nothing special. In comparison, check out Greebo's Lizards. They blow GW's out of the water.
I was reading on Boardgamegeek the other night and I saw several people used PayPal with B&N to get their orders shipped internationally. I can't promise it works but I saw several people claim it does.
Great, thanks for the hint! And thanks to Clockpunk for verifying. It looks like Halflings are currently out of stock online, but once they're back, I'll try to get both them and Undead. I was also able to find the cards on BGG, too, so the regular team boxes are an option as well.
jmw23 wrote: If GW wants to make up the ground they lost by abandoning Blood Bowl for so many years, they still have some catching up to do compared to third-party sellers. It feels like GW used their B Team to sculpt the new Lizardmen. Totally workmanlike, absolutely nothing special. In comparison, check out Greebo's Lizards. They blow GW's out of the water.
First off, they're kickstarter so what does that mean? Limited window of purchase? Receive your order 1 year after? Secondly, they're metal. I wouldn't have them for free. I've played with metal blood bowl before, they required repaint literally after every tournament.
jmw23 wrote: If GW wants to make up the ground they lost by abandoning Blood Bowl for so many years, they still have some catching up to do compared to third-party sellers. It feels like GW used their B Team to sculpt the new Lizardmen. Totally workmanlike, absolutely nothing special. In comparison, check out Greebo's Lizards. They blow GW's out of the water.
Depends what you're after. The Greebo team is genuinely lovely but I'm not a fan of them for Blood Bowl. They just lack the tongue in cheek daftness I associate with the setting. I've bought some for use as fantasy Lizardmen in other games. Kroxigor aside, GW do offer a plastic team (probably the most preferred material) at a reasonable cost. That's enough for a lot of people.
jmw23 wrote: If GW wants to make up the ground they lost by abandoning Blood Bowl for so many years, they still have some catching up to do compared to third-party sellers. It feels like GW used their B Team to sculpt the new Lizardmen. Totally workmanlike, absolutely nothing special. In comparison, check out Greebo's Lizards. They blow GW's out of the water.
Not a fan of the Greebo models. The Saurus are just absurdly bulky. I think the sweet spot of bulk is what is used in the video game, Greebo's just dial it up to 12.
Also as other people have mentioned, it's still a kickstarter, they're metal, and from what I've seen the actual model images don't look as nice as the renders.
Resin isn't too bad for BB models, but metal models the paint becomes too delicate for anything harder that mouse mat material (which I do use, but still don't want to risk it).
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Anyone buying the Lizardmen? How do the models look in the flesh?
I'm really torn. I kinda like the Saurus but the Skinks are putting me off. Already have a converted Lizardmen team, but it's out of scale with the current BB range. Tempted to buy a box just to see if they look better in person than they do on the pictures.
They really do, IMO. MUCH better. Well, the Sauri once you repose the arms and bend the legs a bit. That's what I did for the first three - and I cut the mouth guards off - and they're pretty imposing now. Stock poses look more like tripping, but the Sauri are really stocky and have fantastic faces. They're probably standing close to a head taller than an old Saurus and have legs twice as big around and ripped serratus anterior showing.
Before assembly I shaved off a bit of fabric around the tails to sculpt some armour plates /decorations over their tail pants, now idea if that'll be enough or if the dremel will have to come out. For the second group of three I did a head- and tailswap between two of them, was pretty easy and really changes the models up while keeping a realistic flow to the pose of the one dude I glues back together. Freely chose from the arms, too, you'll have to fill gaps and clip/cut off around the pecs and shoulders, but now no.4 has an unique pose - and a power fist made from Stegadon masonry bits. The Skink head dresses also fit pretty well. I gave the lounging Saurus the Chameleon one, there I left his head scales bit off and it was a snug fit and the feathers obscure all view of the missing scales, anyway. The power fist dude will get one of the regular Skink ones, this time with his head properly assembled.
Now, the Skinks. They're...less good. They're HUGE. They're taller than the "hero" Skinks from the Stegadon kit I've used for my never completed team. Their heads are easily 50% bigger than an old one's, maybe close to double. Their crests are bigger than an old Skink! The Chameleons are pretty fun to look at, but their hands are completely devoid of detail on the inside.
So. I assembled on camo dude with arms from the Skinks and a crest from a 5th ed Skink. Bend his leg a bit so he has both feets on the base (btw, 32s are way to small for the splayed leg Saurus and ridiculously big for the Skinks...) and his new arms give him a startled look, like he's about to wring his hands because a ball will hit him in the head...or a charging Minotaur. I love him. For the others I might try and style their actual heads into masks. Size-wise it is believable that a "normal" head could fit into there And they look more like the bird skull mask from the "priest" from the Stegadon kit than Skink heads. It's...bad. Kinda.
TL;DR: The Sauri, with some reposing are ace, even better when you slightly kit bash them and sculpt a bit. They look like they were MADE to go with my HellDorado Kartikeya (Kroxigor). The Skinks can be used, but I might stick with my Stegadon crew outside of stealth dudes.
PS: I might give the Slann idol stubby legs and run him as a morbidly obese Chameleon Skink.
Edit: Turns out I left a Saurus in my dad's play room for the grandkids and I brought my half built new guys over to play at the family gathering. So, crappy pics for a quick comparison. Linked, because they're bad. This is punchy with his massive gauntlet and head+tail swap The bright spot on the snout is where I cut his horn ornament off.
Thanks for the review! They are definitely a lot bigger than the old Saurus, the 32mm base hides it a bit in the pictures.
I think I'll grab it for the Saurus and keep using my old Skinks. Don't like the idea of big Skinks, they're supposed to be Stunty! I think using the old skinks with the new saurus will probably highlight the smallness of the skinks in a way I'll like.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Anyone buying the Lizardmen? How do the models look in the flesh?
I'm really torn. I kinda like the Saurus but the Skinks are putting me off. Already have a converted Lizardmen team, but it's out of scale with the current BB range. Tempted to buy a box just to see if they look better in person than they do on the pictures.
They really do, IMO. MUCH better. Well, the Sauri once you repose the arms and bend the legs a bit. That's what I did for the first three - and I cut the mouth guards off - and they're pretty imposing now. Stock poses look more like tripping, but the Sauri are really stocky and have fantastic faces. They're probably standing close to a head taller than an old Saurus and have legs twice as big around and ripped serratus anterior showing.
Before assembly I shaved off a bit of fabric around the tails to sculpt some armour plates /decorations over their tail pants, now idea if that'll be enough or if the dremel will have to come out. For the second group of three I did a head- and tailswap between two of them, was pretty easy and really changes the models up while keeping a realistic flow to the pose of the one dude I glues back together. Freely chose from the arms, too, you'll have to fill gaps and clip/cut off around the pecs and shoulders, but now no.4 has an unique pose - and a power fist made from Stegadon masonry bits. The Skink head dresses also fit pretty well. I gave the lounging Saurus the Chameleon one, there I left his head scales bit off and it was a snug fit and the feathers obscure all view of the missing scales, anyway. The power fist dude will get one of the regular Skink ones, this time with his head properly assembled.
Now, the Skinks. They're...less good. They're HUGE. They're taller than the "hero" Skinks from the Stegadon kit I've used for my never completed team. Their heads are easily 50% bigger than an old one's, maybe close to double. Their crests are bigger than an old Skink! The Chameleons are pretty fun to look at, but their hands are completely devoid of detail on the inside.
So. I assembled on camo dude with arms from the Skinks and a crest from a 5th ed Skink. Bend his leg a bit so he has both feets on the base (btw, 32s are way to small for the splayed leg Saurus and ridiculously big for the Skinks...) and his new arms give him a startled look, like he's about to wring his hands because a ball will hit him in the head...or a charging Minotaur. I love him. For the others I might try and style their actual heads into masks. Size-wise it is believable that a "normal" head could fit into there And they look more like the bird skull mask from the "priest" from the Stegadon kit than Skink heads. It's...bad. Kinda.
TL;DR: The Sauri, with some reposing are ace, even better when you slightly kit bash them and sculpt a bit. They look like they were MADE to go with my HellDorado Kartikeya (Kroxigor). The Skinks can be used, but I might stick with my Stegadon crew outside of stealth dudes.
PS: I might give the Slann idol stubby legs and run him as a morbidly obese Chameleon Skink.
Edit: Turns out I left a Saurus in my dad's play room for the grandkids and I brought my half built new guys over to play at the family gathering. So, crappy pics for a quick comparison. Linked, because they're bad. This is punchy with his massive gauntlet and head+tail swap The bright spot on the snout is where I cut his horn ornament off.
You have just made me look forward to any future Lizardmen releases for AoS ridiculously much. The proportions, level of detail and improved dynamism of these on a set of normal Saurus warriors (or some not-too-weird new unit) - yes please! As long as new-design Skinks won't make the transfer and all lizards are as naked as the day they crawled out of the spawning pool that is. Just can't get used to the look of them wearing shorts. Not expecting much in the way of releases, but perhaps as a Warhammer Underworlds team in the next batch...
highlord tamburlaine wrote: So in some news tangentally related to Blood Bowl, I was searching on Barnes and Noble for which stores had Blitzbowl in stock.
Turns out there are going to be repackaged Blitzbowl teams coming to B & N, along with a paint set!
So far they have most of the released teams- Halflings, Skaven, Undead, and Chaos. Each team is just a single sprue of six models at 20 dollars.
Paint set is ten 12ml bottles, clippers, brush, and glue for 35.
So there is hope of getting some of the other teams into Blitzbowl after all!
which is a bit of a blow to me, as now I have less chance to trade off the 1/2 teams I have for Skaven and Dwarves..
Hey.. Anyone want 6 Dwarves on sprue, or 6 Assembled Skaven? I would trade both for SOME Nurgle team guys!
I did just read the B&N links.. the various teams come with colored plastic sprues AND in the case of the undead, team cards for Blitz Bowl! Wow.. now makes me really upset that I bought the Chaos team instead of the Undeads.. dang it
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Anyone buying the Lizardmen? How do the models look in the flesh?
I'm really torn. I kinda like the Saurus but the Skinks are putting me off. Already have a converted Lizardmen team, but it's out of scale with the current BB range. Tempted to buy a box just to see if they look better in person than they do on the pictures.
They really do, IMO. MUCH better. Well, the Sauri once you repose the arms and bend the legs a bit. That's what I did for the first three - and I cut the mouth guards off - and they're pretty imposing now. Stock poses look more like tripping, but the Sauri are really stocky and have fantastic faces. They're probably standing close to a head taller than an old Saurus and have legs twice as big around and ripped serratus anterior showing.
Before assembly I shaved off a bit of fabric around the tails to sculpt some armour plates /decorations over their tail pants, now idea if that'll be enough or if the dremel will have to come out. For the second group of three I did a head- and tailswap between two of them, was pretty easy and really changes the models up while keeping a realistic flow to the pose of the one dude I glues back together. Freely chose from the arms, too, you'll have to fill gaps and clip/cut off around the pecs and shoulders, but now no.4 has an unique pose - and a power fist made from Stegadon masonry bits. The Skink head dresses also fit pretty well. I gave the lounging Saurus the Chameleon one, there I left his head scales bit off and it was a snug fit and the feathers obscure all view of the missing scales, anyway. The power fist dude will get one of the regular Skink ones, this time with his head properly assembled.
Now, the Skinks. They're...less good. They're HUGE. They're taller than the "hero" Skinks from the Stegadon kit I've used for my never completed team. Their heads are easily 50% bigger than an old one's, maybe close to double. Their crests are bigger than an old Skink! The Chameleons are pretty fun to look at, but their hands are completely devoid of detail on the inside.
So. I assembled on camo dude with arms from the Skinks and a crest from a 5th ed Skink. Bend his leg a bit so he has both feets on the base (btw, 32s are way to small for the splayed leg Saurus and ridiculously big for the Skinks...) and his new arms give him a startled look, like he's about to wring his hands because a ball will hit him in the head...or a charging Minotaur. I love him. For the others I might try and style their actual heads into masks. Size-wise it is believable that a "normal" head could fit into there And they look more like the bird skull mask from the "priest" from the Stegadon kit than Skink heads. It's...bad. Kinda.
TL;DR: The Sauri, with some reposing are ace, even better when you slightly kit bash them and sculpt a bit. They look like they were MADE to go with my HellDorado Kartikeya (Kroxigor). The Skinks can be used, but I might stick with my Stegadon crew outside of stealth dudes.
PS: I might give the Slann idol stubby legs and run him as a morbidly obese Chameleon Skink.
Edit: Turns out I left a Saurus in my dad's play room for the grandkids and I brought my half built new guys over to play at the family gathering. So, crappy pics for a quick comparison. Linked, because they're bad. This is punchy with his massive gauntlet and head+tail swap The bright spot on the snout is where I cut his horn ornament off.
You have just made me look forward to any future Lizardmen releases for AoS ridiculously much. The proportions, level of detail and improved dynamism of these on a set of normal Saurus warriors (or some not-too-weird new unit) - yes please! As long as new-design Skinks won't make the transfer and all lizards are as naked as the day they crawled out of the spawning pool that is. Just can't get used to the look of them wearing shorts. Not expecting much in the way of releases, but perhaps as a Warhammer Underworlds team in the next batch...
Yeah, any new AoS Lizzies done like that would be ace. The Sauri are almost straight out of Total Warhammer and the Cyanide BB game concept art...with kinda dumb stock poses for the arms. But a tiny bit of cutting and GS fixes that. The shorts could easily be made into loincloth, it's really just the part over the tails that looks stupid and is harder to remove. I built my last one in triceratops-styled gear today and gave him the chestpiece as tail armour, will have to see how it looks cleaned up and under my desk lamp.
I might get another box (this time from a UK discounter ) and arm them for Skirmish or Warcry (if they have rules there). A Shadespire band done from the same basic 3D armature with properly sized gear would be awesome. Almost like a squad of scar veterans (I don't own the plastic one from the Carnosaur kit, he might be taller still...his weapons would work like a charm, in any way). A troop box or two would make me buy a 1000 points force at least.
Disclaimer: I bought a box of Saurus Warriors to buff up a bit as a BB team years ago. When I originally opened them up I was SO disappointed that I never even built one When the Contrast paints were released I wanted to built them, put some Contrast on and give them to my nephews...after building that spindly thing with terrible mould lines/slippage, whacky scales and a face even a mother couldn't love featured in the comparision pics I didn't want to build a second one.
PS: I was wrong about the Cham hands, the fingers are actually sculpted on the inside, but the palms are still completely flat. I like those little weirdos, though, their eyes are really well done on the bare plastic. I can take some pics of old vs new Skinks tomorrow once I've built one.
I got the Lizardmen and I think the sculpts are great, especially the Saurus. It is super easy to remove the mouth guard if you dislike them - I might do it for some models to avoid duplicates. Skink headgear is optional so you can make all the 4 skinks different. Shorts are a bit disappointment to those who plan AoS conversions but I think they look fitting for Bloodbowl universe.
The real questions are:
1. What should I use for Kroxigor?
2. Jungle base or temple base to match the board?
GW Blood Bowl models are consciously bigger than their other ranges (they've stated as such). So the larger skinks might not be off proportionality, just odd when compared to previous versions. Those Saurus do look nicely chunky though I'm not looking forward to pushing them about on my smaller pitch.
I think Skinks should be roughly the size of Goblins. Maybe they are as I haven't seen them in the flesh, but from the pictures they look bigger on the base than the Goblins do.
They also just look slow and derpy, not like something that should have movement 8.
First off, they're kickstarter so what does that mean? Limited window of purchase? Receive your order 1 year after? Secondly, they're metal. I wouldn't have them for free. I've played with metal blood bowl before, they required repaint literally after every tournament.
Do you really not know what Kickstarter means? Greebo has run a bunch at this point, all delivered, all great quality. I own their Renaissance-themed Undead team, who look great in person. All their finished Kickstarter products are still available for order on their website. If you don't like metal, you don't like metal...though if you need to repaint them the way you claim to be doing, you've done something wrong. Are you not varnishing your finished minis? Anyway, I prefer metal, plastic is OK, and I can't stand resin. Everyone has a medium they prefer, and a reason for doing so. No right or wrong there.
I have an order coming in today and can't wait to see the new Lizzies. Got two boxes, one for BB and one for AOS. Glad to hear from the the posts I can convert. I'll make an Astrolith bearer and smal TG squad to guard my Slann.
First off, they're kickstarter so what does that mean? Limited window of purchase? Receive your order 1 year after? Secondly, they're metal. I wouldn't have them for free. I've played with metal blood bowl before, they required repaint literally after every tournament.
Do you really not know what Kickstarter means? Greebo has run a bunch at this point, all delivered, all great quality. I own their Renaissance-themed Undead team, who look great in person. All their finished Kickstarter products are still available for order on their website. If you don't like metal, you don't like metal...though if you need to repaint them the way you claim to be doing, you've done something wrong. Are you not varnishing your finished minis? Anyway, I prefer metal, plastic is OK, and I can't stand resin. Everyone has a medium they prefer, and a reason for doing so. No right or wrong there.
Agree on all points.
If you like metal or like plastic, valid reasons for a point of view.. everything else there was a stretch.
First off, they're kickstarter so what does that mean? Limited window of purchase? Receive your order 1 year after? Secondly, they're metal. I wouldn't have them for free. I've played with metal blood bowl before, they required repaint literally after every tournament.
Do you really not know what Kickstarter means? Greebo has run a bunch at this point, all delivered, all great quality. I own their Renaissance-themed Undead team, who look great in person. All their finished Kickstarter products are still available for order on their website. If you don't like metal, you don't like metal...though if you need to repaint them the way you claim to be doing, you've done something wrong. Are you not varnishing your finished minis? Anyway, I prefer metal, plastic is OK, and I can't stand resin. Everyone has a medium they prefer, and a reason for doing so. No right or wrong there.
I'm not exactly sure what kickstarter means, no. My impression was that in some cases you would wait an awful long time for the products and also that they would only be available in the kickstarter period.
I never varnish my finished minis, no. The varnish changes the hue, shine, reduces highlight and overall look of the painted minis. I'm also not convinced varnish or anything else would protect against paint chip on metal minis. Regardless, I'm never going back to metal miniatures ever.
First off, they're kickstarter so what does that mean? Limited window of purchase? Receive your order 1 year after? Secondly, they're metal. I wouldn't have them for free. I've played with metal blood bowl before, they required repaint literally after every tournament.
Do you really not know what Kickstarter means? Greebo has run a bunch at this point, all delivered, all great quality. I own their Renaissance-themed Undead team, who look great in person. All their finished Kickstarter products are still available for order on their website. If you don't like metal, you don't like metal...though if you need to repaint them the way you claim to be doing, you've done something wrong. Are you not varnishing your finished minis? Anyway, I prefer metal, plastic is OK, and I can't stand resin. Everyone has a medium they prefer, and a reason for doing so. No right or wrong there.
I'm not exactly sure what kickstarter means, no. My impression was that in some cases you would wait an awful long time for the products and also that they would only be available in the kickstarter period.
I never varnish my finished minis, no. The varnish changes the hue, shine, reduces highlight and overall look of the painted minis. I'm also not convinced varnish or anything else would protect against paint chip on metal minis. Regardless, I'm never going back to metal miniatures ever.
Kickstarter is nothing more or less than a commoditised version of traditional investment capitalisation. Instead of buying a chunk of a new company in hopes that its product will become a success and your chunk will sell for more than you paid the company, you buy interest in a new product directly in hopes of getting that product for a significant discount over the expected retail value.
In both cases it is entirely up to the investor to do due diligence and determine if the product is likely to be a success (or even physically possible - yes, I’m looking at you, anti-gravity blowtorch) and also likely to come to market within the times and prices specified:
A lot of the time you have people who sincerely have a genuinely new (cool thing) they want to make but can’t do it easily because certain components only come in lots of ten thousand when you only need one for the device so they start a kickstarter to see if 9999 other people also want one of their (thing), but they are naive and inexperienced with commercialising a product so they wildly underestimate the times and costs involved. Some of the time you have deceptive scum who are knowingly participating in a cynical fraud. Slightly less often you also have genuine idiots/the insane who really think their idea of making a plate fly by heating it up will work. But then the balance of the remainder is increasingly established commercial companies who have a sold handle on how making (a thing) goes, having made other (things) of a slightly different type before and just want some capital to offset the initial sunk costs of new tooling etc. – the various Reaper Miniatures projects are good examples – which you can usually treat as fancy pro orders more than anything else.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Haven't received Head Coach Handbook yet, but there are some comments about it being riddled with silly mistakes. Not much useful to have this kind of summary book, if the summaries are untrustworthy? It was so many mistakes, an official pdf was released for free to fix most of it.
This is only the second plastic box that I'm not too bothered about. I wasn't a huge fan of the Dark Elf box as I felt that a headswap with the Pro Elf box was good enough, but I'm not digging the style of this one either. I never quite got into the Mongolian aesthetic of the Ogre Kingdoms, to be quite honest, and I think that's what's turning me off this. I don't think it's a bad team by any means. Just not for me.
I also feel like the choice of Ogres for the next plastic box is kind of surprising, too!
But if it means more Ogre teams on the tabletop, I'm 100% behind it.
(I still have my LRB-era metal Ogre team, but I'm short a few 1980s snotlings, unfortunately...)
I never really liked playing ogres as a team, but these sculpts kinda win me over. I used to collect ogre kingdoms in WHF, their region of the old world had some cool lore.
Not sure about the Ogre with the trap.. I would think that a BLATANT weapon is not gonna go down well.. hidden weapons fit the atmosphere better than a ogre claiming its "cultural" .. lol
porkuslime wrote: Not sure about the Ogre with the trap.. I would think that a BLATANT weapon is not gonna go down well.. hidden weapons fit the atmosphere better than a ogre claiming its "cultural" .. lol
Well you go and tell him then that he can't use it
porkuslime wrote: Not sure about the Ogre with the trap.. I would think that a BLATANT weapon is not gonna go down well.. hidden weapons fit the atmosphere better than a ogre claiming its "cultural" .. lol
porkuslime wrote: Not sure about the Ogre with the trap.. I would think that a BLATANT weapon is not gonna go down well.. hidden weapons fit the atmosphere better than a ogre claiming its "cultural" .. lol
But have you seen this?
I think that's the point... the Deathroller has the Secret Weapon rule. The ref will totally kick that guy out.
But, you know... he's not gonna stop the drive for it or anything.
I was surprised to see more expansions for Blitz Bowl, including two totally new teams for the game - Undead and Halfings. Now available at Barnes and Noble....
After the disappointing Lizardman team, this Ogre team release is really tempting. I never played the Ogres on the old BB but I did have an Ogre WFB army so these fellows really appeal to me!
Two new skills actually: "Disposable" and "Kick Team-Mate"
"The Disposable skill means that you don’t count their cost in your overall Team Value! That’s a good thing since the Ogres aren’t exactly cheap.
The Runt Punter’s Kick Team-mate skill also means that you can send your Gnoblars sailing across the pitch, while not having to worry too much about protecting them, to split the other team’s attention."
Two new skills actually: "Disposable" and "Kick Team-Mate"
"The Disposable skill means that you don’t count their cost in your overall Team Value! That’s a good thing since the Ogres aren’t exactly cheap.
The Runt Punter’s Kick Team-mate skill also means that you can send your Gnoblars sailing across the pitch, while not having to worry too much about protecting them, to split the other team’s attention."
So I was re-reading Kick Team-mate and it’s done in place of a Block during a Blitz action. Does this mean someone with KTM and Frenzy can beat someone’s head in to get them out of the way, then punt a runt with the second block? Same with Multiple Block.
Following the rulings on things like Stab…
No preview of new star players, just good old nobbla and scrappa (that we had for years). Kick Team-Mate is also old. New for Ogre is Disposable on Gnoblars/Snotlings, and a new Ogre (0-1?) with Kick Team-Mate instead of Throw Team-Mate. Guessing the standard Ogres will be 0-5 then.
I think Goblins and Halflings would benefit greatly from Disposable too, as they suffer when getting standard agility skills.
They showed a lot of new stuff during the Twitch session yesterday.
The only new star player is Bob Billford - 380k 5-6-2-10 Block, Break Tackle, Juggernaut, Loner, Might Blow, Multiple Block, Throw Team-Mate, Thick Skull.
A Slave Giant as an inducement, the Disposable and Kick Team-Mate text... etc, etc.
Mr_Rose wrote: So I was re-reading Kick Team-mate and it’s done in place of a Block during a Blitz action. Does this mean someone with KTM and Frenzy can beat someone’s head in to get them out of the way, then punt a runt with the second block? Same with Multiple Block.
Following the rulings on things like Stab…
No. Multiblock doesn't work on a blitz, and the second block from frenzy is against the same target as the first block.
They showed a lot of new stuff during the Twitch session yesterday.
The only new star player is Bob Billford - 380k 5-6-2-10 Block, Break Tackle, Juggernaut, Loner, Might Blow, Multiple Block, Throw Team-Mate, Thick Skull.
A Slave Giant as an inducement, the Disposable and Kick Team-Mate text... etc, etc.
Thanks for the stats! Nobody got screenshots of the rest? :(
AduroT wrote: How is kick team mate different from throw team mate?
Basically you need a run-up (takes your Blitz action) and roll for range instead of rolling an Ag check and using the passing template. The punted teammate scatters three times and lands like usual for Right Stuff.
The KTM rules are available from Warhammer Community in the blood bowl downloads for Grak & Crumbleberry.
Some extreme news for Blood Bowl in this spike! A new Star Player, Slave Giant, which occupies 4 squares and has a new Extraordinary skill "Sporting Giant" which explains how movement and tacklezones work.
AduroT wrote: How is kick team mate different from throw team mate?
It costs a blitz. You can kick a Right Stuff player D6 or 2D6 squares. If rolling a double, the kicked player suffers an injury roll instead (treating Stunned as KO'd). Moved in a straight line (above other players as normal). Scatter 3 times. You can see for yourself here: https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/4329
Nice to see the Chaos Dwarf made-to-order includes 6 dwarves and 6 hobgoblins instead of 4 dwarves and 8 hobgoblins as the original box did.
I just ordered the Ogre box set. For the price of a standard new Blood Bowl team, it's a good deal for 4 ogres and 12 snotlings. I already have a human team ogre so I will be set for a 5 ogre team. Ogres are a fun team to play with the twitchy snotlings able to easily dodge anywhere they want to go. At least until they get killed . . .
And the oddball thing is, for the splash page on the GW Homepage those models DO have the good ol green bases.. they changed them in the shop, but not in the ad
EDIT: Predictions are Snotlings, Chorfs, Amazons, Necromantic Undead, not necessarily in that order.
That'll leave, what, Vampires, Norse, Khemri, and Slann?
Slann are persona non grata due to how much they've changed in Warhammer lore - even given the fact that Blood Bowl is basically an alternative dimension WHFB world. They could get redone as Kislev, like they were in the Blood Bowl 2 computer game. You've also got Khorne and Bretonnians as teams from the computer game that could easily be adapted to the tabletop. After those you're basically heading towards Slaneesh and Tzeentch teams before you get to even whackier stuff like Border Princes, Araby, Cathay, Firmir, Albion etc. Not sure if they would ever go as far as the later ideas or just decide to end the releases and reallocate their production resources to another games.
Snotlings are clearly coming now but not sure whether GW would release two fairly useless niche tier 3 teams after each other. My guess is we're going to see either Vampires, Norse or Necro.
Easy E wrote: I have been waiting for a Brets team since 3rd edition..... when I started BB.
You're out of luck if you want an 'official' GW version then. They've pretty much confirmed that they won't be doing Brets. The lead BB designer doesn't like the concept and the current rules were essentially fan made for the BB1 video game (and still fairly divisive).
The app that launched alongside the 2016 set had their clear attempts at alt Bretonnians (Human Nobles) and Khorne (Savage Orcs) team concepts. They never saw much table time from what I could tell (unsurprisingly).
High Elves instead of Slann on that list, but they will probably do at least one elf team a year, so I could see Elves instead of Chorfs or Amazons, since they are more niche.
I was playing Chorfs in BB2 and they are kind of enjoyable, even if i did get lucky and my Centaur picked up the ball more than they didn't!
EDIT: Predictions are Snotlings, Chorfs, Amazons, Necromantic Undead, not necessarily in that order.
That'll leave, what, Vampires, Norse, Khemri, and Slann?
Slann are persona non grata due to how much they've changed in Warhammer lore - even given the fact that Blood Bowl is basically an alternative dimension WHFB world. They could get redone as Kislev, like they were in the Blood Bowl 2 computer game. You've also got Khorne and Bretonnians as teams from the computer game that could easily be adapted to the tabletop. After those you're basically heading towards Slaneesh and Tzeentch teams before you get to even whackier stuff like Border Princes, Araby, Cathay, Firmir, Albion etc. Not sure if they would ever go as far as the later ideas or just decide to end the releases and reallocate their production resources to another games.
Snotlings are clearly coming now but not sure whether GW would release two fairly useless niche tier 3 teams after each other. My guess is we're going to see either Vampires, Norse or Necro.
I heard that the guy who made Blood Bowl kinda doesn't like Brets/Khorne because of reasons, but I don't know the whole story. Seeing a Kislev team would be cool, and it's quite obvious that GW doesn't care about the bleeding hearts since they made a big joke of it the last time they went after GW, and a big ol' bear would be kind of cool to see as a big guy.
The Amazons do have the leg up in that they are already mentioned on the zoat card, and goodness knows they are just gonna end up looking like escher figs given the current trend in giving everything (looking at you, my poor lizardmen) pants or shorts- giving them a lot of cross-range sales potential.
Honestly, I've been tempted to pick up a box or two of eschers to convert, maybe cut away the one or two high tech bits and not use the head with the targeter on it and we are set to go.
But knowing my luck they'll add some new positional to Amazons and make it so I have to get a box anyways, so...
We may get Khorne. I've known some of their Community staffers forget that they're not actually a GW sanctioned team and speak about them being released so whether that's a result of some internal knowledge they slipped up on or just a mistake then who knows. Andy Hoare had previously mentioned wanting to do something with other Chaos god affiliations and I can see us getting something for all 4 eventually.
Brets and Slaan I think are going to remain CRP only though they may put out a similar concept ala Kislev in BB2.
Snotlings are clearly coming at some point. Sea Elves also get a fair few mentions in the modern fluff so that could be interesting too.
Carlovonsexron wrote: The Amazons do have the leg up in that they are already mentioned on the zoat card, and goodness knows they are just gonna end up looking like escher figs given the current trend in giving everything (looking at you, my poor lizardmen) pants or shorts- giving them a lot of cross-range sales potential.
Amazons are mentioned on a lot of star players (Glotl Stop, Helmut Wulf, Karla von Kill, Roxanna Darknail, Willow Rosebark), also specifically mentioned for a lot of the new inducements/wizards (Slann Mage-Priest, Josef Bugman, Kari Coldsteel). They're also fully included in teams of legends and coach handbook.
Yeah there are rules for all teams! Only team not "official" is slann, but they have rules too and welcome to use on any tournaments and leagues.
To clarify, when we're discussing news or what teams will be next, it is never about what team we can play next. We can continue to play any of the teams that have existed the last ~10 years. The new stuff is either miniatures, additional/optional rules (stadiums, inducements, wizards, star players, special balls, cards etc) or expansions to existing teams (new positionals).
If current rumors are to be believed it's snotlings or chorfs next. Seeing as how the hint to the next team was supposed to be in the ogre spike magazine. It refers to snotling teams and Zharr Naggarund Ziggurats by name (I could see that being the named team on the front of the plastic chorf box).
Unfortunately the next team might now show up until may. Remember the undead went up for pre order last year (2018) around november 30th, and then it took all the way until later in may 2019 for the halflings to go on pre order. I think of wish they'd stick to a 3 month gap between team releases, but it seems there is usually a lull in the first half of the year.
I wouldn't be too surprised by a wait, warcry had a lot of stuff coming up for release soon, and they all (orbmostly all) double as generic releases taking up production slots.
Personally, I am not fond at all of this miniature. It's alright, but not great. In my opinion, the Mighty Zug is by far the best Star Player, and beats everyone else by miles. But, as said above, there arent that many to pick from. But even if there were more, the Mighty Zug probably still would hold his own ground. But I hope they keep releasing more figures for Blood Bowl. I love this blood sport <3
That hair seems too long for a "sport" like BB. Opponents would be able to grab it and pull her to the pitch. Ogres would swing her around by it (okay, maybe not as that would require minimal intelligence). Nice model, though.
BigDaddio wrote: That hair seems too long for a "sport" like BB. Opponents would be able to grab it and pull her to the pitch. Ogres would swing her around by it (okay, maybe not as that would require minimal intelligence). Nice model, though.
Gloriel Summerbloom is noted for making accurate passes with her eyes closed and for having a strong disliking for violence; I’m not sure she’s playing the same game as everyone else. Also, she’s like S2 or something; maybe that’s related?
I was just looking through old release dates for some idea of the release pattern. Obviously you can ignore 2016 (the new edition launched in late 2016 so there weren't that many releases) and it seems like they were still finding their stride in 2017 (we got the Dwarf team in February, the Human and Orc teams' standalone boxes along with the ogre and troll in March, Goblin team in May, Elf Union in December). After that, things started into a very consistent pattern...
2018:
May - Chaos
July - Dark Elf
September - Nurgle
December - Undead
2019:
May - Halfling
July - Wood Elf
October - Lizardmen
December - Ogres
That's almost exactly the same; Lizards were a month later than Nurgle, but otherwise, that's a really consistent release schedule.
If we assume it will stay the same, that unfortunately means we're in the middle of this year's lull. Hopefully they have something exciting planned for May!
Thargrim wrote: We will likely see the next team announced at GAMA next month. I heard rumors about it being underworld denizens, but hoping that is not the case.
the rumors come from a filtration of Chinese exports. A underworld board.
If it is a new design team, and not just a repack with current goblins and skavens in one box.. it could be interesting.. thinner and more evil, with gas masks and cyber parts.
They could be cool, but I would have rather they did another competitive team first. Two stunty teams in a row is a bit meh. Though the hint at the snotling team in the ogre magazine was definitely intriguing.
Thargrim wrote: We will likely see the next team announced at GAMA next month. I heard rumors about it being underworld denizens, but hoping that is not the case.
Since ForgeWorld still sells the coin/token set, and you can buy a skaven box plus a goblin box and have everything you need for it, I assumed Underworld was never getting a dedicated box. I agree, it would be disappointing, especially since I already bought those extra boxes.
The teams left that they haven't done any kind of release for are Amazon, Chaos Dwarf, High Elves, Khemri Tomb Kings, Norse, Necromantic Horror, and Vampire.
I just noticed the July team has been elves for two years running, so maybe high elves will be July this year? They are the last team from Death Zone 1 that hasn't been released yet. I think they're pretty-much guaranteed to be out sometime this year.
Other than that, I think Chaos Dwarf is fairly likely (they're one of the most popular teams among those not yet released). There's 3 kinds of undead left, so we're probably getting at least one or two of those, but hard to say which. Necromantic is probably the most similar to stuff we've seen so far this edition (we already have zombies, ghouls, and wights), so maybe them? Amazon and Norse might both wait until 2021, or they might drop one to surprise us.
So yeah, I'm thinking 2020 will be Chaos Dwarf, High Elves, Necromantic, and one other team out of the other four.
So are those on the standard 32s? Because if so and based on the other BB models getting a big size bump, the Snotlings might actually be the right size for converting into regular Goblins for WHF/Mordheim.
Oh yeah, they have a bunch of secret weapons too, as you can see; the fungus flinger, the fun-bouncer (iirc), the stilt-walker, and, of course, the Pump Wagon, apparently all in the kit.
Some of the artwork would seem to indicate they can hire trolls as well.
Yodhrin wrote: So are those on the standard 32s? Because if so and based on the other BB models getting a big size bump, the Snotlings might actually be the right size for converting into regular Goblins for WHF/Mordheim.
It looks Looks like 25mm for Snots and 32mm for Pump Wagon. Weird choice of release at this point but lovely miniatures nevertheless.
Nope, but it does seem like a good idea. Never heard of this old world alliance though. Could be good, depending on any cost changes. Hope they can take a big guy or I have no idea why haflings were even invited. Unless they can bring their chefs and hotpots with them…
Im sure they will be able to take an Ogre or even a Treeman. I am not a fan of the mixed teams. Feels like the allies matrix in 40k, and that hasnt dont much to help the balance of that game. I know BB is an inherently unbalanced game, but each team has a weakness. Letting teams combine takes away those weaknesses makes the game less interesting IMO.
Yeah, the paint scheme reminded me instantly of the Doom Forgers, except regular humans instead of Werewolves.
Good to see a mixed team for the non-chaotic races, though. I've played a Chaos Renegades team since the rules came out and they're so diverse and so open to experimentation. Mutations are the thing that cracks them wide open, so it would be interesting to see what sort of options the Old World Alliance can take in contrast to that. Having Dwarfs AND easy access to faster players is potentially difficult to balance. While Renegades can be a potentially rough start leading to an absolute juggernaut of a team (with expenses to match), I imagine the Old World starts out fairly strong from the off.
squall018 wrote: Im sure they will be able to take an Ogre or even a Treeman. I am not a fan of the mixed teams. Feels like the allies matrix in 40k, and that hasnt dont much to help the balance of that game. I know BB is an inherently unbalanced game, but each team has a weakness. Letting teams combine takes away those weaknesses makes the game less interesting IMO.
Depends on the limitations involved, really.
For Humans/Dwarf/Halfling, you’ve an inherent mix of speeds involved. This could make it harder to maintain a cohesive formation. It can also lay a player open to a critical casualty, where a lynchpin of their formation gets nobbled or worse, sent off. If your Halflings were relying on a Dwarf for protection, losing said Dwarf puts a crimp in things.
They may also end up paying more for things such as re-rolls, fan factor etc to represent their greater flexibility.
Would love to see the roster more like the Renegades where they also get one elf (maybe even one elf lineman from each non-dark-elf race), but it doesn't seem very likely.
There are a lot of different positionals shown in that picture; seems like you get to take at least one of each position from each team, which is pretty wild.
squall018 wrote: Im sure they will be able to take an Ogre or even a Treeman. I am not a fan of the mixed teams. Feels like the allies matrix in 40k, and that hasnt dont much to help the balance of that game. I know BB is an inherently unbalanced game, but each team has a weakness. Letting teams combine takes away those weaknesses makes the game less interesting IMO.
Depends on the limitations involved, really.
For Humans/Dwarf/Halfling, you’ve an inherent mix of speeds involved. This could make it harder to maintain a cohesive formation. It can also lay a player open to a critical casualty, where a lynchpin of their formation gets nobbled or worse, sent off. If your Halflings were relying on a Dwarf for protection, losing said Dwarf puts a crimp in things.
They may also end up paying more for things such as re-rolls, fan factor etc to represent their greater flexibility.
I almost certainly believe they will pay 70k for rerolls and that will hopefully be a balancing factor.
It looks like GW are rejigging the Underworld team so they can sell a team box for them which necessitates knocking one of the blitzers off the roster for a gutter runner. That way they can include a single Skaven sprue and two of the smaller goblin sprues to make up a box.
I wonder if they're going to do a box for Old World Alliance since you can't easily cover that one with just two sprues. But if they are, I would imagine you'd end up with a roster that consisted of at least one of every positional that comes on the human/dwarf sprues.
squall018 wrote: Im sure they will be able to take an Ogre or even a Treeman. I am not a fan of the mixed teams. Feels like the allies matrix in 40k, and that hasnt dont much to help the balance of that game. I know BB is an inherently unbalanced game, but each team has a weakness. Letting teams combine takes away those weaknesses makes the game less interesting IMO.
Assuming the roster is an ogre, a human sprue and a dwarf sprue, plus halfling linemen, the team will work out to be an interesting variant on the Chaos Dwarf roster, with more skilled average stat players instead of bull centaurs. I don't anticipate it will be anything to worry about.
squall018 wrote: Im sure they will be able to take an Ogre or even a Treeman. I am not a fan of the mixed teams. Feels like the allies matrix in 40k, and that hasnt dont much to help the balance of that game. I know BB is an inherently unbalanced game, but each team has a weakness. Letting teams combine takes away those weaknesses makes the game less interesting IMO.
Usually it's offset quite nicely, none of these mixed teams are Tier 1. They sit squarely in T2. Underworld has to deal with animosity and general low strength/armour across the board with the exception of it's trolls. It doesn't get any of the goblin secret weapons as positionals and didn't used to get gutter runners (only gets 1 now). Rumours are that the Old World Alliance will also have a load of animosity/loner across the team, which also handicaps them.
Mr_Rose wrote: So the mixed teams are on preorder today? Neat!
But, OK, what the hell happened to the Snotlings?
Weren’t they supposed to be next?
My guess is that they are delayed due to Covid and the idea to put out these mixed teams and this new Spike popped up around March. The idea likely being that with the model presses silent so long(and once they fired back up they would be working overtime to build up a further stock of the new 40k boxed set) this way the specialist games division could give us some new stuff by just repacking old stock and not needing any casting time. That’s my guess for what it’s worth.
I'm fairly sure the idea must have been around earlier (if only to get the printing organised, though if they say made in the UK I could be wrong),
but I think your right in that they've been shuffled up the order so they don't have to tool anything (& maybe produce? in terms of man hours unboxing and reboxing stock is probably more expensive and slower than just running an existing sprue on the machines for a day especially if this ends up being a release which sells out suspiciously fast)
Or these were intended to come out before the Snotlings...
The Lumineth book from the army pack flatout says "April 2020" with regards to when the points were laid down...that means we're still back in April/May timeframe for releases.
The big exception to the rule is, obviously, the Indomitus box and New40k as those things likely had a lot of momentum established.
Kanluwen wrote: Or these were intended to come out before the Snotlings...
The Lumineth book from the army pack flatout says "April 2020" with regards to when the points were laid down...that means we're still back in April/May timeframe for releases.
I suppose that’s plausible but then I don’t get why we had, like, zero build-up for the mixed teams? Of the next 2.5 releases were always going to be mixed teams then snots surely they would have mentioned the mixed teams sometime between the snotling preview and Thursday? Or did that happen and just got missed?
Kanluwen wrote: Or these were intended to come out before the Snotlings...
The Lumineth book from the army pack flatout says "April 2020" with regards to when the points were laid down...that means we're still back in April/May timeframe for releases.
I suppose that’s plausible but then I don’t get why we had, like, zero build-up for the mixed teams? Of the next 2.5 releases were always going to be mixed teams then snots surely they would have mentioned the mixed teams sometime between the snotling preview and Thursday? Or did that happen and just got missed?
Like Sabotage! said they were probably one of the next releases after the Snotlings and have simply been moved up the schedule, as they don't require any new production (some reboxing aside) and I bet most of the printed material was simply logistically easier for GW to get their hands on.
Blood Bowl is planned out 2 years in advance, so I highly doubt they just cobbled something together, especially given how art heavy the Spike! magazines are. I imagine GW are already in some form of production for at least the next 2/3 teams after Snotlings.
So, what do you guys think of the leaked rules? The Loner on all the Dwarves/'Lings really hurts, but fortunately Dwarves are typically skilled players (having block to start with) so they aren't as reroll dependent for what they are really there for - hitting things.
It will suck for the 'lings for when they need to roll a landing check for the 1TT with the ogre.
I'm thinking of:
Spoiler:
Ogre (140)
Halfling (30)
Dwarf Blocker (70)
Dwarf Blocker (70)
Dwarf Blitzer (80)
Dwarf Slayer (90)
Human Blitzer (90)
Human Thrower (70)
Human Lineman (50)
Human Lineman (50)
Human Lineman (50)
3 RR (210)
Total: 1000
With the first buy being the Apo and then probably the runner
Seen the leaked rosters now, so the answer to my own question is nope.
But the changes to Underworld, and the Loner/animosity rules on the Old World Alliance aren't great. It seems GW are just too afraid of ever creating new top-tier teams and feel like they have to hobble them in some way which, for a game I always felt was intended to lack balance, seems kind of dumb.
I'm considering a tournament with friends at some point where we remove the loner rule from big guys, keep the old Underworld roster, and even allow some experimental teams from FUMBBL (hello Troll team) and see how it goes. Maybe chucking Old World Alliance in there with the animosity removed from the Humans and replacing the Loner rule with it on the dwarves would be interesting too.
Is there any reason to play on the Underworld pitch? Beyond the cool board anyway?
Most of the special pitches have some cost/benefit thing going on but the underworld one is just straight up “lol everyone gets stupid(er)!”
Underworld getting a Gutter Runner is a pretty big deal, imo. They didn't give him normal mutations (which would've been far too good) but he'll still be a really valuable asset to the team.
Random tangent... I just got thinking about mixed teams, and was hit with the concept of an Amazon team with Skinks and a Krox. I'd play the heck out of that team.
Mr_Rose wrote: Is there any reason to play on the Underworld pitch? Beyond the cool board anyway?
Most of the special pitches have some cost/benefit thing going on but the underworld one is just straight up “lol everyone gets stupid(er)!”
It is a crazy pitch. Underworld got low cost players, so it would be beneficial to apply global really stupid against a top tier team like wood elves.
Mr_Rose wrote: Is there any reason to play on the Underworld pitch? Beyond the cool board anyway?
Most of the special pitches have some cost/benefit thing going on but the underworld one is just straight up “lol everyone gets stupid(er)!”
It is a crazy pitch. Underworld got low cost players, so it would be beneficial to apply global really stupid against a top tier team like wood elves.
But is not blanket really stupid? It’s blanket bone ‘ead that turns into RS if you already have it. If anyone gets a virtual benefit of that sort it’s Snotlings with their four trolls who aren’t affected at all because they’re already really stupid, not underworlders. Good luck convincing your opponent to not veto the board rules unless your League Commissioner mandates them.
Maybe if it was as-is but players got extra SPP or regen or something to counter it…
Although there’s no clear pic, looks like an Orc & Goblin team is packed in too. I think I may even see a troll? The large model near the “3” on the middle pic (edit as I realised it could be construed I was having a pop at Chopstick. That is not the case!)
Really not sure adding stat complications is good or necessary at all.
But limiting the benefits of Blitz is better.
Edit; adding extra stats seriously limits the potential of star players unless they rebalance how league levelling works, including the TV prices of upgrades.
BB relies more than other GW games on a fairly static ruleset as it's probably the closest to a 'board game' that GW produces at present. Significantly changing the rules are going to lead to a lot of community hand wringing, BB's community is very tightly knit given the tournament scene and how they basically kept it alive for 10-15 years of GW abandoning the game. I can easily forsee a scenario where the NAF ends up having to run both 2016 and 2020 leagues/competitions and it being a massive cluster.
Not sure why they didn't make these changes in 2016 if they thought the game needed updating At least then was a fresh start for the game under GW and they wouldn't have invalidated 4 years worth of Spike magazines/BB rules.
I'm real nervous about this, especially considering how badly proofread and written the generals handbook was. On the plus side the models look good, not that thrilled about seeing orcs again but I guess these teams are beginner friendly.
I really like the current iteration of the game though, and I did want to see chorfs/vamps and the rest of the teams released for the current game. I sure hope I like this new edition....
Thargrim wrote: I really like the current iteration of the game though, and I did want to see chorfs/vamps and the rest of the teams released for the current game. I sure hope I like this new edition....
Yeah that's what annoys me themost, if they'd finished off the 2016 teams then I'd have been rather laissez faire about this, as it would mean 2016 could continue to be played with all the teams. Now we're going to end up in a weird split situation, where the only way to play Vamps, High Elves etc in 2016 is with the basic CRP rules that came in the initial 2016 release without them having had the benefit of an update - which is fine but a missed opportunity for those teams.
I've no doubt those teams will be the first to be dealt with in 2020 as all the old plastic kits for the other teams will remain in production (unless GW has gone totally mad) but still.
Also not a fan of the new cover art, I much preferred the 2016 style.
The Bodyguard there makes me think the Human team is the Human Noble team on the 'My dugout' app, which means the Orcs would be the Savage Orc team.
The Savage Orcs never really felt OP to me - heck, the savage orcs mostly trade a point of armour for Frenzy, and the Black Orcs trade a point of armour for Thick Skull.
The Human Nobles though have a positional that's 4x that has Block and Guard to start for 90k gp, and their Catcher is S3 and AV7 and starts with Pro...
Surprisingly I think I see a troll on the board, the pose is the same as the current plastic troll. (I really dislike the pose of this troll) I do see what looks like coaches in blue plastic. Also at least 6 goblin sized units for the orc team. I hope they just unveil this stuff on the community site this week considering how big this leak has been.
I'm actually a bit pissed about this news. I've been playing BB since the mid-90's with 3rd edition, watched it evolve into the game it is today, and have enjoyed playing in numerous tournaments over the years. It is a fantastic game that was neglected by GW for some time and the fans really kept it alive and improved upon the rules without any support from GW.
Then three years ago or so the "new" GW decided to bring back the game with all new models. While I was not a fan of the move to larger miniature bases, requiring larger game boards, for the most part the rules were copied from the Living Rulebook at the time that had been kept alive and refined by the fans. BB was in a good place with renewed support and the new edition did help bring in some players which is always a good thing.
But now GW has gone beyond a few gradual refinements. From the pictures I have seen, players all have a new "passing" characteristic, skills have been changed, and team positionals' costs have been adjusted, sometimes dramatically (and why the move to increments of 5k gold GW?).
While I expect a new edition of 40k every couple years, BB is a game that really should be left untouched other than only minor refinement tweaks when deemed necessary (ex. Piling On requiring a reroll was a good change IMO; same with Human Catchers decreasing in cost). This strikes me as another GW cash grab, and I hope the fans and organizations like the NAF really think twice before adopting these new, unproven rules.
Though it looks like the Noble (whatever) player says Noble Blitzer, so maybe the Blitzer will replace the princeling as another 0/4 piece with the thrower being 0/2? Or maybe takes the Ogres out as well.
Ogre looks pretty weak. Did they change how strength works with the latest edition? From what I remember, ogre-sized players were S6. S4 was for BOs, CWs etc.
Sorry guys, it's all my fault. I was thinking today how affordable and easy to play Blood Bowl was for a GW product, and my heresy has prompted GW to action...
I don't think the scale changed so the board and templates are likely the same. They look the same size in the images. The dugouts are definitely smaller this time around. I am worried the inclusion of big guys will drive the cost up. If it drives the cost up past 140 bucks then I can't see this box selling that great. The current starter is 115 USD.
I'm not so sure on the ruleset changes......the current ruleset is fine (though admittedly I feel it takes too long to play a full game, which is why I generally play 7s or Blitz Bowl). If they can recreate the experience if the current game in a time frame that is closer to 60-75 minutes I would be on board.
I think the Humans looks excellent though, and regardless of what happens with the new rules at the very least I will pick up the humans for 7s and Blitz Bowl duty.
Thargrim wrote: I don't think the scale changed so the board and templates are likely the same. They look the same size in the images. The dugouts are definitely smaller this time around. I am worried the inclusion of big guys will drive the cost up. If it drives the cost up past 140 bucks then I can't see this box selling that great. The current starter is 115 USD.
That is a good point, if they try to charge as much for this as say the Warcry starter that was loaded with terrain I could not see it really selling.
Also, and I know this weird to say this.....but I am seriously wondering if this leak was intentional by GW. The reason I say that is that it was digital Gen-Con this weekend and we say a bunch of previews for Legion, X-Wing, Marvel Crisis Protocol, etc....and I wouldn't be that surprised for GW to drop something like this in attempt to get people's attention back to them.
I've often thought leaks like this are sometimes part of a marketing plan. Not sure if my memory is failing me but usually they have shown things at gencon, this time around I don't believe they were present.
But yeah if this costs as much as the warcry set i'll be astounded. Only way this will work out is if the big buys are discounted as part of the box and are more or less free. Plus this rulebook is hardback, unlike the one in the current starter.
As for how long this game takes to play, I see little in the leaks that suggests it'll be any quicker. It's mostly a slight modernization of the rules. Some parts of the game might be a bit smoother but it's still 16 turns for each player.
JWBS wrote: Ogre looks pretty weak. Did they change how strength works with the latest edition? From what I remember, ogre-sized players were S6. S4 was for BOs, CWs etc.
Normally Big Guys are Strength 5, so yeah a Strength 4 Ogre is a little underwhelming.
Hoping for a typo considering a Str4 player with a nega-trait like Bone-head is an incredibly poor choice.
Only str 6 players I recall was the halfling/wood elf treeman, a STR 4 ogre is underwhelming...unless the ogre for this human team is now cheaper. A cheaper ogre that takes up less team value and can take skills without causing bloat could still be useful. But it does mean they lose some initial muscle at the start of a league. a +STR stat increase also now adds much more cost to the players value than it did before. I think it was something like 80k.
Thargrim wrote: I've often thought leaks like this are sometimes part of a marketing plan. Not sure if my memory is failing me but usually they have shown things at gencon, this time around I don't believe they were present.
But yeah if this costs as much as the warcry set i'll be astounded. Only way this will work out is if the big buys are discounted as part of the box and are more or less free. Plus this rulebook is hardback, unlike the one in the current starter.
As for how long this game takes to play, I see little in the leaks that suggests it'll be any quicker. It's mostly a slight modernization of the rules. Some parts of the game might be a bit smoother but it's still 16 turns for each player.
I hope that they will realize that this is a specialist game and charging as much as the other starters (that have a bunch of terrain/etc) wouldn't exactly make it fly off the shelves. Especially as most of the Blood Bowl players I know are quite happy with the current ruleset and most tournaments out there are run independently of GWs involvement. If the box is 125 I wouldn't consider that too outrageous......any more is too much in my opinion.
Just glancing over things I think you are right, it doesn't look like the game appears to be much shorter, which is a bit of a bummer to me. I often have a hard time fitting in a full game of Blood Bowl and I think many players are in a similar position. Looking at a few summary lists overall the changes look pretty decent though and I'd be willing to give this edition a shot.
JWBS wrote: Ogre looks pretty weak. Did they change how strength works with the latest edition? From what I remember, ogre-sized players were S6. S4 was for BOs, CWs etc.
Normally Big Guys are Strength 5, so yeah a Strength 4 Ogre is a little underwhelming.
Hoping for a typo considering a Str4 player with a nega-trait like Bone-head is an incredibly poor choice.
Whoops, you are right, the Ogre is supposed to be S5 and I made an error.
Surprised to see much negativity, people are talking as if blood bowl were a perfect game. There were problems with it and most changes seem pretty good.
The biggest seems to be the passing, but allowing Agility players to be Agility players and throwers to be throwers just seems sensible.
On almost any team that had throwers available they were at best a mediocre choice and at worst never to be taken. Now they have a role.
Changes to kick off events just tone down how much of a swing they introduce and given how much they are complained about, I can't imagine many people don't like this nor the fact they will stop having their players killed by rocks.
Outside of those, the changes (that we know about) aren't particularly big. The core of the game will remain pretty much the same.
Vorian wrote: Surprised to see much negativity, people are talking as if blood bowl were a perfect game. There were problems with it and most changes seem pretty good.
The biggest seems to be the passing, but allowing Agility players to be Agility players and throwers to be throwers just seems sensible.
On almost any team that had throwers available they were at best a mediocre choice and at worst never to be taken. Now they have a role.
Changes to kick off events just tone down how much of a swing they introduce and given how much they are complained about, I can't imagine many people don't like this nor the fact they will stop having their players killed by rocks.
Outside of those, the changes (that we know about) aren't particularly big. The core of the game will remain pretty much the same.
Tweaking things like the kick off table and balance adjustments to certain teams / positions, etc. would be fine, but adding a whole new stat is a big deal, as it completely invalidates all previous teams, including ones that still haven’t had a formal update (or even an official release for things like Slann, Bretonnians, etc.). It’s not like there wasn’t plenty more to release for BB 2016 and this just smacks of trying to break up the community and force everyone into a buy-arbitrarily change-buy again cycle like 40k.
This new edition is definitely a cash/power grab by GW, somewhat similar to what is going on with 9th 40k and GW wanting to dictate/control the tournament scene. I really hope that the NAF and FUMBBL hold off on quickly adopting this new ruleset, and instead run sufficient test/trial games and tournaments to see how the new rules and team balance play out. We sure know GW has not done extensive playtesting . . .
How anyone can have faith in GW anymore to do what is best for the game boggles me. Look at changes like the new Underworld team roster - changes solely made based on selling two pre-made plastic sprues of goblins and skaven, and not based on what is good for the balance of the game.
Vorian wrote: Surprised to see much negativity, people are talking as if blood bowl were a perfect game. There were problems with it and most changes seem pretty good.
I don't think that anyone thinks that BB is a perfect game, however the community has been playing broadly the same game for nearly 25 years now. They know the faults of the game but everyone has learned them and how they affect the game. The meta is based around it. Also most people haven't gone through a radical rules change. The last major change was in the early 00s (4th/Gold) and most of the radical stuff from that was ultimately dropped because people didn't like it. Ever since then it's been balancing changes mainly.
Radically changing BB isn't like the regular new editions of 40k. It's like creating a 2nd edition of something like Settlers of Catan.
I still maintain that if they'd actually finished BB2016 and updating the teams then people would have less issue with this. Then BB2016 would be a 'complete' game which people could play independently if they didn't like BB2020. Now if BB2020 flops, 2016 will remain somewhat incomplete (you can play Vamps etc but they haven't been redone with the design team/philosophy of 2016). It's particularly frustrating as there was only about 18 months worth of teams left to go - ignoring springing anything random like Snotlings again. Actually what edition are the Snotlings even going to be?
I don't mind new edition per se, it's just a shame that existing Team Cards and whatnots are not compatible with the new edition. I can't say that I'm surprised though.
The rules were tested, several of the top players (in BB2 and tabletop) were under NDA to test the rules for quite a while now.
But did these playtesters have any say in the stats and costs of the team rosters? We've heard that 40k 9th edition was the "most playtested" version ever, yet the playtesters supposedly had no say in points costs which are a crucial element in balancing the game and it shows in the skewed early 9th edition tournament data.
Was anyone really clamoring for a new BB ruleset? Do we really want to get onto a cycle of new "best, greatest, improved" editions that 40k is stuck on that just end up milking money from fans?
"New Season" "Bigger" "Better" "Very best edition to date" "polished to perfection"
Mark these words for 3-4 years from now when they are repeated and you are asked to open up your wallet again. We are now on the GW never-ending edition cycle that has resulted in such perfected games like Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy and Age of Sigmar.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing changes to team and player names, like "Orruk" instead of Orc, "Ogor" instead of Ogre, "Gits/Grots" instead of Goblins, "Troggoth" instead of Troll, etc. GW is going to protect that IP and sadly probably stomp down on any unofficial "Blood Bowl" tournaments using the old CRP.
Gnarlly wrote: "New Season" "Bigger" "Better" "Very best edition to date" "polished to perfection"
Mark these words for 3-4 years from now when they are repeated and you are asked to open up your wallet again. We are now on the GW never-ending edition cycle that has resulted in such perfected games like Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy and Age of Sigmar.
People whine when the game is in production.
GW takes it out of production, and people whine.
GW puts it back into production, and people whine.
Do you want a living game or not? Because this is the market. This is how it works regardless of whether or not you or I agree with the business model. And it is not unique to GW. Like, at all.
Miniatures and the artwork style are nice but I really doubt a new edition with rule changes was that necessary. BB was doing good while abandoned by gw. Since they got back in and now introducing significant changes like a new stat creates a rift that would not exist otherwise. Whether the changes are necessary is up for debate but what is very clear is the intention of gw of putting BB into the endless 3-4 edition recycling (like their other games) with small changes here and there to promote adoption of the new rules because these are the official rules, hence many people buy in the recycling cycle.
The consequence isn't a necessarily a better game (opinions....) but probably a division between the fanbase, some prefer one edition to the other (like in any game) instead of using long standing unified rules. This at the expense of ensuring constant sales through each cycle. In other words: cash grab.
Gnarlly wrote: "New Season" "Bigger" "Better" "Very best edition to date" "polished to perfection"
Mark these words for 3-4 years from now when they are repeated and you are asked to open up your wallet again. We are now on the GW never-ending edition cycle that has resulted in such perfected games like Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy and Age of Sigmar.
People whine when the game is in production.
GW takes it out of production, and people whine.
GW puts it back into production, and people whine.
Do you want a living game or not? Because this is the market. This is how it works regardless of whether or not you or I agree with the business model. And it is not unique to GW. Like, at all.
In my opinion the game was "living" just fine for years without GW's involvement. While I definitely give credit to the GW of years ago for creating the game, the game really came into its modern day iteration through the Blood Bowl Rules Committee and the Living Rulebook - not from GW releasing a new edition every four years. I said earlier that the 2016 edition was very good overall as it kept the work that culminated in the Living Rulebook/CRP and helped bring new players into the community. But this edition really strikes me as an attempt to do away with those years of work by the community in order for GW to gain control of the tournament scene with its "Official" rules.
Personally I’ll never forgive GW for forcing teams to start already in BtB, or adding those dumb custom dice! What was wrong with adding up everyone’s strength, rolling a dice and adding the difference between the attackers and defenders, then looking up the result on a table? Eh? Total cash-grab!
The Blood Bowl community seems like a pretty strong one, I don't think they need protected from anything, if they like it, it'll last, if they don't, they'll play what they want. With no great disrespect meant, these aren't modern 40K players, they can think and do for themselves without a permission slip from GW. "Official" tournaments or not.
Bah, if the new rules suck, the community will just play with the LRB as they did for so many years.
But yes, I expect the things like the cards will be invalidated with the new edition. Gotta buy all this new material, after all.
I played BB for quite a long time, and I don't mind the new changes honestly. It's true throwers were always kinda left on the side. This way, we can have some new possibilities for some players...for example, there is now a better difference between zombies and skeletons in the undead team...since the zombies can't pass at all, while the skeletons can. It's not just about who can take blocks better anymore.
Wonder if GW was forced to make the preview sooner because of the leaks or if the product will be out soon (september ?). I would have thought that box is more intended for end of the year, but who knows ?
I am not unduly troubled by the prospect of new rules. To be honest, I was a bit bemused that 2016 was broadly the same as 1994. GWs flaw as a games company is that they rarely do much game design (possibly because they aren't very good at it), but at least in the new era, they are experimenting with the concept and not relying solely on decades old rule sets.
It may well be rubbish, but I will give the new edition a shot.
The model duplication seems a shame, one does miss some aspects of multi-part kits sometimes. Usually there is some tiny variation in bits for a head or an arm, but these look entirely 1:1. Not the biggest deal, but seems something they could have rectified easily as they have with other similar kits.
That and I really wish they stuck with the painted artwork instead of line art, it's just part of GW DNA to me, odd to see comic style artwork. Though it is nice comic style artwork.
Other than that new models look awesome, I can't wait to see the other teams -
Alot of it is quality of life improvements, which will make it easier to pick up for new players. Example agility stat, it's just "3+" now. Instead of AG 3, cross reference on a table to 4+, then look up another table to find a +1 modifier for most actions in the game...
Glancing through there's nothing that unduly concerns me. The game will play very similar to now. Big change is the passing stat, but that's good, separating "good at dodging" and "good at throwing" i'm down with.
Take the cynical glasses off and it looks pretty good TBH.
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Mr_Rose wrote: Personally I’ll never forgive GW for forcing teams to start already in BtB, or adding those dumb custom dice! What was wrong with adding up everyone’s strength, rolling a dice and adding the difference between the attackers and defenders, then looking up the result on a table? Eh? Total cash-grab!
And adding plastic models to the box, how dare they. Cardboard standees were good enough back in the day!
Ernster wrote: H.B.M.C. LOL, you wouldn't happen to know the price would you?
No prices yet (they usually come out the Monday before the Saturday something is up for preorder) but the chances of it not being more expensive are... slim.
To be honest, I'm more expecting a limited supply of the Blood Bowl big box (exclusive new Griff !). They did it for 40k, why not for everything else ?
About the prices, we'll have to see when the individual teams will be released. They already did increase prices for Blood Bowl team boxes not so long ago.
Looks inspired by the experimental team Human Nobility from the defunct 'Dugout' app.
Not excited with new edition. Loads of re-print of already existing content? Extra content already published and sold 2-3 times over already (Death Zone Season 1 & 2, Almanacs, Spike magazines...).
Worst case, this will get the sloppy quality control of Necromunda or that trainwreck coach handbook they made.
Also, they have only gotten halfway through the current BB2016 edition, and instead of completing it (for all teams), they start a new one from scratch? I'm not gonna jump onboard this until at least 2022-2023. GW specialist games are awful the first 1-2 years (or 3-5 years for Necromunda).
Griff is the one with the bird? Then surely we will see a new 'extraordinary' bird skill?
There are currently loads of new skills: - Iron Hard Skin (Mutation): Immune to Claw - Cannoneer (Passing): +1 to Long Pass/Bomb - Cloud Burster (Passing): Opponent must re-roll successful attempt to interfere a Long Pass/Bomb - Fumblerooskie (Pass): Can leave the ball in a vacant square when moving/blitzing (no bounce, no turnover). - On The Ball (Passing): Kick-off Return + Pass Block (these are no longer separate General skills) - Running Pass (Passing): Can continue to Move after making a Quick Pass. - Safe Pass (Passing): Safe Throw (without the intercept part) - Monstrous Mouth (Mutation): Changed from Extraordinary to Mutation
Bloodlust gone? Vampires are either far into the future or completely changed. All teams seem to gain an unique special rule.
This book looks to be a rules book for the game, instead of dumbed down demo rules for a starter box. Kill Team had a proper rules book. Blood Bowl, Necromunda and many others did not.
I've played Blood Bowl since first edition. I found it in a games shop in the late 80s and played it to death with my brother, and it's actually the game that pulled me into GW in general, and I can still remember absolutely randomly leafing through a White Dwarf and seeing 2nd edition advertised with the polystyrene pitch and losing my tiny mind (it had been out a few years at that point but it marked my first proper foray into a Games Workshop).
I remember being hugely disappointed by the aesthetic changes made in 3rd, too. Nice ruleset, but they made everything ugly (which they did to everything at the time, to be fair).
BB2016 has been amazing. The look and feel of everything just clicked for me. I have little to no complaints.
So, really, I don't totally understand the level of negativity over this new edition. From what I've seen so far, it's reintroducing elements that were stripped out in the change to 3rd. As much as I absolutely loved 2nd edition, it was a bloated, horrible ruleset. So I'm cautious about some of those elements being brought back. Otherwise, who really knows how good or bad this is going to be?
Let me answer that: No-one.
No-one knows yet.
So do your poor hearts a favour and chill out a little. Games Workshop are giving us another starter set with more miniatures, a bigger "proper" rulebook that is potentially better (I mean, you'd hope so! But we actually have no idea until we play it) and those plastic teams are going to keep coming. So I fail to see how any of this is bad news as of yet.
BB2016 is horrobly bloated too. I like that game a lot, but the amount of content they produce is insane. And they still haven't touched vampires, necro, khemri, amazon, chorf, high elves and norse. Instead of doing one of the unreleased team, they make a brand new one. Everything is so unevenly distributed and incomplete. And for those of us who collect rules, it doesn't add much getting the 11th or 12th alternative weather table. New special play cards? Got 198 already. New star players? Already have 108. New team? Already have 31.
Most if not all of this is now garbage. I got nice noob friendly player cards for many teams, perfect for introducing new players to the game. All of them are invalidated. I may try the new edition and even enjoy it. But I'm not buying more junk, that's for sure. How will this affect all the extra stuff each team has (mainly through spike, pitch and cards)? Are they gonna reset the clock and do all Spikes again? Continue where they left off, leaving the old content invalidated or at best in limbo? Restart the special play card bloat?
What GW keep pushing is new stuff, new rules, new cards, new star players, new teams and now new edition. The only thing I want are minis for every existing team or star player.
I was originally ambivalent about PA coming back but I’ve thought about it properly and I think it will serve well to rein in high Ag teams in league play, which I am all for.
That said, I’m really curious about these “league keywords” on the team rosters we’ve seen so far; I hope it’s not going to prevent halflings playing chaos teams or whatever.
Baxx wrote: BB2016 is horrobly bloated too. I like that game a lot, but the amount of content they produce is insane. And they still haven't touched vampires, necro, khemri, amazon, chorf, high elves and norse. Instead of doing one of the unreleased team, they make a brand new one. Everything is so unevenly distributed and incomplete. And for those of us who collect rules, it doesn't add much getting the 11th or 12th alternative weather table. New special play cards? Got 198 already. New star players? Already have 108. New team? Already have 31.
Most if not all of this is now garbage. I got nice noob friendly player cards for many teams, perfect for introducing new players to the game. All of them are invalidated. I may try the new edition and even enjoy it. But I'm not buying more junk, that's for sure. How will this affect all the extra stuff each team has (mainly through spike, pitch and cards)? Are they gonna reset the clock and do all Spikes again? Continue where they left off, leaving the old content invalidated or at best in limbo? Restart the special play card bloat?
What GW keep pushing is new stuff, new rules, new cards, new star players, new teams and now new edition. The only thing I want are minis for every existing team or star player.
And you'll get them. There's no real reason to think you won't.
Games get reprinted, rules evolve and change. World keeps turning. Nobody held your arm and made you buy all of the spikes or the almanacs. Plenty of stuff I have will be invalidated too. Oh well. Such is life.
Yikes, i still haven't built the teams from the last edition....it's still in my closet, never played a game. Ouch. I'll probably still just play that edition, no reason to buy new set.
ekwatts wrote: Games Workshop are giving us another starter set with more miniatures, a bigger "proper" rulebook that is potentially better (I mean, you'd hope so! But we actually have no idea until we play it) and those plastic teams are going to keep coming. So I fail to see how any of this is bad news as of yet.
Games Workshop is not giving you anything. They are producing something they want you to purchase, and rather than create an addition to the game you may like to get, they prefer creating a revised version of something that replaces what you already have. The new edition is potentially better, by that same logic it is also potentially worse - and if past experience is anything to go by, it's difficult to say which of the two is more likely. Is it even meant to be better, or just meant to be different enough to warrant a new purchase? New editions don't have to be a bad thing, but they sure as hell are not necessarily a good thing either, and most importantly they are not a "gift" from GW.
I can definitely see it both ways. GW dramatically changing the rules will definitely cause some split in the community, which has been very tight-nit in GW's absence and has continued with their return to the new game.
I personally think the changes look pretty good, but I can understand the frustration from all the people who bought the player cards that are now invalid.
I pretty much only bought teams, so I'm personally looking forward to the new edition, and I think the rule changes look pretty positive.
I expect good conversions out of this team (big feathers = no space for alternate heads, though?).The box art is pretty bad, I guess they wentbforba campy style and failed?
Not sure I need nu-NewBowl, but I was thinking about getting my nephews Blitz Bowl and new teams/minis to make mirror matches are always nice.
I haven’t bought into Blood Bowl yet, but I’ve been interested for a while and I have a friend who I occasionally play my miniature games with who plays a lot of the online version. I’ll probably pick this up and play it with him at least.
Binabik15 wrote: I expect good conversions out of this team (big feathers = no space for alternate heads, though?).The box art is pretty bad, I guess they wentbforba campy style and failed?
Not sure I need nu-NewBowl, but I was thinking about getting my nephews Blitz Bowl and new teams/minis to make mirror matches are always nice.
Yeah I see 6 bodies plus the star player and all the dupes have the same head. The only variety I see is one guy has an eagle on his chest while his dupe has a breastplate and shoulder pads. I wonder if heads will be interchangeable or compatible with other kits.
No I don't.
They won't be.
With a sharp knife and green stuff anything can be compatible with anything else but I have low expectations for any current GW kit.
I built things were the gun alone had parts from 8 or so kits, I don't need matching sockets to swap parts.
I can see a ton of Rogue Trader retinues, Inquisitors, AoS "not-Empire" warbands, space pirate crews, regular pirate crews, IG regiments, witch hunters, Marienburger bands and random NPCs spawning out of this team. And most will have a Nurgle Lord and/or Cairn Wraith crammed in there in some shape or form, too And depending on your kitbashing you might even have some shoulder wings left to make some Emperor's Children!
Add a big shell to the retainer and you have the flashiest Basilisk loader ever.
And the rumour is that Orcs get a second team as well? Maybe half-nekkid Savage Orcs in better poses than the AoS kit to use for my Mad Max Goffs? Can the new BB starter be out *yesterday*, please.
Gnarlly wrote: That's the new orc starting team? Ugh, no thanks. It's a notably worse Lizardman team.
Well, if there’s no changes to Lizardmen maybe.
Also on what Brawler does; it’s new and not in any of the leaks I’ve seen. Also, if Grab works the same as currently, it actually makes for an interesting strategic potential where pushes actually pull you adjacent to one or more players on the second line, or out of cages and so on. It’s just so rare to see it when you could take Block or something.
) and arm them for Skirmish or Warcry (if they have rules there). A Shadespire band done from the same basic 3D armature with properly sized gear would be awesome. Almost like a squad of scar veterans (I don't own the plastic one from the Carnosaur kit, he might be taller still...his weapons would work like a charm, in any way). A troop box or two would make me buy a 1000 points force at least.
But I hope they keep releasing more figures for Blood Bowl. I love this blood sport <3
