The following scene saw Wookiee/s with a shovel so I assume it was more dirt throwing. They skipped over putting out the first fire too. I think it wasn’t About putting out the fires so much as acknowledging them and that they dealt with them instead of just ending the scene and the forest not having burnt to the ground.
I appreciate how the handled the language barrier to common. Having either Tech translate the long stuff, or Hunter respond to the short conversational stuff without repeating back what was said. It always annoys me when media has a character speak untranslated non-English and the English speaker repeats the dialogue back to them.
That said, I do “love” how every wookie ever seems to understand basic despite none of them being able to speak it.
In the end this one seemed a bit less filler-y to me, if only because it furthered the theme of encroaching empire and the batch’s growing efforts to combat them.
I like that the tanks are modified AATs. It's a nice little bit of worldbuilding to see the Empire use surplus from the CIS and have it distributed amongst "partners" like the Trandoshans.
You can't leave that kid out of your sight for one damn second...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: They need to be getting their act together on this, as it’s seriously feeling like the writers didn’t plan on a second season, and don’t know what to do with the characters next.
It can't be all main quest all the time. The first season had the thread with Crosshair running through it and I can see how that would appear more focused, but as said above so far in season two we've seen the expansion of the Empire and how the Bad Batch witnesses it. If that's where they're going, the episodes should be diverse to show that no matter where the protagonists go, the Empire is either already there or about to move in. You know, create a bit of a nowhere to run mood before they figure out that running doesn't work and start fighting the Empire methodically.
Also remember that for some months the Bad Batch was presumed killed on Kamino, so they were actually free from Imperial attention for a while and could just go about their excitingly varied mercenary life without interruption. That's the real, unfocused and very much off screen stuff that happens between seasons.
I'd give it some more time. I have a feeling it'll all come together in the second half of the season.
That said, I do “love” how every wookie ever seems to understand basic despite none of them being able to speak it.
I assume that Wookies (and some other aliens) literally cannot pronounce Basic but can hear and understand it perfectly well. So basically it's like talking to your dog if you could understand the answers.
It does make for a nice change over other shows were everyone magically speaks with a California (or British) accent.
Oh yeah, I get that Wookies are physically incapable of speaking basic, but have we ever seen one who didn’t understand it when spoken to them? I’ve seen plenty of comments by basic speaking characters who don’t understand Shyriiwook/Wookie on the other hand.
In the old EU there was a Wookie born with a speech impediment that allowed him to speak basic. I'm not aware of a Wookie that didn't understand Basic though. Not sure I can think of any characters that don't understand Basic even if they don't speak it.
Honestly the real oddity is astromech droids that don't speak basic.
It's easy to consider that different species born in different societies would preserve their own languages even if there's a common base language that the universe uses. Even more so when there might be physical limits on the sounds they can make and thus the way they can communicate.
But for a droid its odd that they'd build a highly intelligent machine that is designed to operate with people (don't forget X Wings are basically built requiring one); but which needs a translator (X Wing computer interface or a speaking droid like C3PO) to translate for the average person.
As for not understanding basic don't forget most of the settings and places we visit, even the backwaters of Tatooine are still connected to major trade and influences from the Republic and other major power and trade groups through history
So you are left with primitive groups - eg Ewoks who didn't understand basic - and worlds seriously on the fringes or isolated in some manner. Otherwise even if you can't speak it, you really do benefit understanding Basic.
Overread wrote: Honestly the real oddity is astromech droids that don't speak basic.
Odder still that people can converse with them as though they were speaking basic.
Odder than THAT is that droids speak their OWN languages not just different languages when they were made by/for different alien species.
Remember, Uncle Owen asked C3PO if he spoke the language of moisture vaporators. Thats right. They invented an entire language just for one type of droid.
The funny this is that in the original trilogy while Luke is flying the X-wing leaving Hoth and talking to R2 it seems like there is a translation popping up on his screen in the Xwing. So outside of when he is in the Xwing Luke is probably just winging it when talking to R2. Of course being force sensitive he could also be "feeling" what R2 is saying.
That said, I do “love” how every wookie ever seems to understand basic despite none of them being able to speak it.
I assume that Wookies (and some other aliens) literally cannot pronounce Basic but can hear and understand it perfectly well. So basically it's like talking to your dog if you could understand the answers.
The lore for Wookies has always been that they are physically incapable of speaking anything other than Shyriwook. And the vast majority of other species are incapable of speaking it in return. But being highly intelligent they are perfectly capable of learning to understand other languages. And other species can learn to understand Shyriwook, even if it is quite difficult.
So communication is possible. It just requires the wookiee to understand the other person's spoken language and the other person to understand Shyriwook.
I always figured astromechs can't talk for the same reason my car or vacuum cleaner can't, it doesn't need to and I don't want it to.
I understand my car's beeps and lights well enough to know when to give it gas or go to the mechanic, and don't need more.
Astromech are basically rolling fix it shops and you don't need more from them than the occasional positive or negative beep.
that would be why R2 and (sigh) Chopper (totally not a Mary Sue droid) are so good at what they do. You no more suspect them of being spies and hackers than you suspect your Roomba or toaster.
And yet Jabba tortures droids that only emit beeps… closer to associate droids with animals than tools such as a Roomba, at the very least.
As for the language of moisture vaporators, at the time I took it to mean a programming language like Java. Of course it seems the lore for Bocce is much more in-depth than I expected.
I always assumed Luke steadily learned to talk to R2D2 over time. So we see a gradual shift from him at the start of the trilogy where he can't understand a thing to the end where he's far more familiar.
And yes I distinctly recall seeing text on the screen for what R2D2 is saying to Luke. It's one of those details that's there enough to see, but not enough to be a clear read for the audience outside of a cinema so Luke also does the part of talking in a way that tells us what R2 is saying whilst adding his own bit to the conversation.
Overread wrote: I always assumed Luke steadily learned to talk to R2D2 over time. So we see a gradual shift from him at the start of the trilogy where he can't understand a thing to the end where he's far more familiar.
And yes I distinctly recall seeing text on the screen for what R2D2 is saying to Luke. It's one of those details that's there enough to see, but not enough to be a clear read for the audience outside of a cinema so Luke also does the part of talking in a way that tells us what R2 is saying whilst adding his own bit to the conversation.
Pretty much this. Most Astromechs can’t speak Basic. But they can be linked up to a screen and display text.
Given, in theory, they tend to have fairly repetitive tasks? I can see someone who works with them picking up what the beeps and whistles mean.
Plus they’re clearly Dog Analogues in the setting, and you can soon pick up on your Pupper’s body language, borks, growls and howls to know what they want. Usually food. Or a fuss. Or out for a wee. Chin on the sofa usually means “go on, let me up on the sofa” for instance.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I always figured astromechs can't talk for the same reason my car or vacuum cleaner can't, it doesn't need to and I don't want it to.
I understand my car's beeps and lights well enough to know when to give it gas or go to the mechanic, and don't need more.
Astromech are basically rolling fix it shops and you don't need more from them than the occasional positive or negative beep.
that would be why R2 and (sigh) Chopper (totally not a Mary Sue droid) are so good at what they do. You no more suspect them of being spies and hackers than you suspect your Roomba or toaster.
Except they clearly aren't cars or vacuum cleaners. And I say this as someone who absolutely hates machines 'talking' to me.
R2 offers to fly the X-wing (and remember this was decades before self-driving cars became a bad idea made manifest) and can do manual repairs on the fly. He can unlock secure doors, scour archives and reports for information, shut down regular functions (garbage compactor) in a foreign computer system. Also, R2 has a sensor suite that can detect all sorts of things (from intruding assassins to giant snakefish)- which you definitely want communicated, even if you (for some bizarre reason) don't want the repair status of your ship explained effectively.
R2 is probably the most intelligent entity in the star wars universe, and even for a normal astromech model undertaking its basic functions (repair and maintenance of starships), you most certainly want clear reports. Having them not talk is moronic.
And the weird thing is, its intentional. They clearly can communicate intelligibly and intelligently, either by screen-share or another droid. The designers allow them to make sounds and communicate via language, just not human-equivalent speech. That's deliberate and more than a little insane, given the magnitude of the tasks they're given (again, maintaining starships that need to keep 100s or 1000s of people alive, let alone the costs of starships).
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Worth noting R2-D2 is slightly anomalous, as he’s been spared regular mindwipes, allowing him to form more of a personality than most Droids.
Even so he still shows the basic capabilities of the droids of his make and design. Plus the first time he appears story wise (not film wise) he's even awarded a commendation by the Queen.
Droids seem to exist in a grey spot. They are almost all subservient to the needs of organic life and societies; and yet they appear to have social elements all to themselves. There's only a rare few who appear to act fully outside of that and only act to benefit organic life because its the dominant life type and thus where you'll get the most work.
I wonder if its because the Republic, and most races, consider droids to be alive and thus have rights to things such as their own languages, laws, protections and more. Remember Return of the Jedi there's a robot torture scene early on. You don't torture something you just make to serve you blindly, which indicates that whilst R2D2 is unique, the idea of machines thinking and being alive isn't really questioned. Even if you're also allowed to mind wipe them without, it seems, any stigma or laws against it.
On Jabba’s Palace, I believe the Droid torture is as much a hobby of EV-9D9 as it is a practical thing, such as extracting info from captures Courier Droids.
I commented on the second class status of droids before. They are very much sentient things they develop personalities outside their programming and often have to be forced to do their jobs via control bolts attached to them. R2 isn’t even remotely unique with his personality, just his competence. There’s a scene in the comics where a pilot who has a reputation for her Astromech getting destroyed is standing in front of a dozen or so of them and asking for a new partner and they all turn and leave. BB8 is even implied to flip her the bird.
And yet we see the various 'vehicle' style droids being destroyed in huge number with nary a qualm.
Seems strange that different droids seem to be programmed to have personality/emotions/sentience whilst others do not, for protocol droids it makes sense they do but why program a B1 to feel fear (or mimic fear)?
Perhaps the only reliable way they found droids to function in such varied environments as general interactive machines, was to equip them with a personality. That might be safer than having droids with very advanced self learning AI systems which then develop their own personalities anyway, but might not be along the lines you want in your society.
So you give them a personality that makes them easier to interact with, but also includes elements which makes them want to be useful and part of society rather than allowing rogue AI to develop on their own and end up with GLADOS or HAL
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On Jabba’s Palace, I believe the Droid torture is as much a hobby of EV-9D9 as it is a practical thing, such as extracting info from captures Courier Droids.
I always saw it as either droids are slaves, and for some reason the film wants us to laugh at their torment, or Jabba was just like that kid you knew who would torture his Nintendo when he lost, by hitting it or turning it off and on rapidly.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On Jabba’s Palace, I believe the Droid torture is as much a hobby of EV-9D9 as it is a practical thing, such as extracting info from captures Courier Droids.
That isn't practical at all. You either hack the droid or whatever data storage device they're carrying, because there's no reason to give them access to the secure information.
The pretense of torturing a droid (which shouldn't be set up to feel 'pain') is just bad film writing- the twirl of a villainous mustache.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On Jabba’s Palace, I believe the Droid torture is as much a hobby of EV-9D9 as it is a practical thing, such as extracting info from captures Courier Droids.
That isn't practical at all. You either hack the droid or whatever data storage device they're carrying, because there's no reason to give them access to the secure information.
The pretense of torturing a droid (which shouldn't be set up to feel 'pain') is just bad film writing- the twirl of a villainous mustache.
The original thought was that the EV just loved torturing other droids and it wasn't for the extraction of information but to keep them inline as Mad Doc said, which is not in anyway better writing... Of course the fact that we later see the same droid serving drinks in a cantina with out the apparent to need to disintegrate or dismember other droids kind of proves that droids can have their programming rewritten when needed and dont have a base personality as such. Which begs the question as to why you would allow them one in the first place.
I do like Overread's thought that it allows them to interact in their environment better, though I do not see how that would work for a B1 and not a Hyena or Hailfire.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On Jabba’s Palace, I believe the Droid torture is as much a hobby of EV-9D9 as it is a practical thing, such as extracting info from captures Courier Droids.
That isn't practical at all. You either hack the droid or whatever data storage device they're carrying, because there's no reason to give them access to the secure information.
The pretense of torturing a droid (which shouldn't be set up to feel 'pain') is just bad film writing- the twirl of a villainous mustache.
The original thought was that the EV just loved torturing other droids and it wasn't for the extraction of information but to keep them inline as Mad Doc said, which is not in anyway better writing... Of course the fact that we later see the same droid serving drinks in a cantina with out the apparent to need to disintegrate or dismember other droids kind of proves that droids can have their programming rewritten when needed and dont have a base personality as such. Which begs the question as to why you would allow them one in the first place.
I do like Overread's thought that it allows them to interact in their environment better, though I do not see how that would work for a B1 and not a Hyena or Hailfire.
True its tricky because not every advanced machine in the setting has a droids mind and there are vast starships which appear to have no AI system in them which clearly do a lot of calculations and advanced machine-environment interactions.
One way to justify it is that perhaps something as large as a starship or vehicle can have a more advanced AI system that is capable of achieving such interactions without having the parts that lead to potential development of individuality and behaviours. Meanwhile smaller droids and machines make use of a different kind of AI system that's far more compact, but which comes with this weakness that it can develop personality quirks and elements. So the starship or vehicles don't need a personality system because they will never (or are exceptionally unlikely too) develop their own thoughts. Meanwhile the smaller droids can and thus they have to have a degree of personality imprinted upon them so that in the highly likely cause that they start becoming personalities, they are guided by the core elements of their program to be a certain kind of personality.
You could even argue that this is defended by the fact that the Trade Federation droids controlled by central minds in the starships have only very limited personality development and, by and large, are far more standard "robot slaves". However when those ships are abandoned and the droids have to function on smaller components internal to themselves; then we get the development of far more personality quirks and such.
So in short perhaps droids have personalities because of the limitations of making AI systems so small as to fit into droid housings.
I just assume droids aren’t given a personality by choice, but rather one develops regardless of if you want it to or not as a quirk of how they do AI in them, and thus the need for control bolts and such.
Also if you want a Really twisted droid, look up 000, or Triple Zero.
I agree that its highly likely that the AI systems used in droids do give rise to a personality (or a very high chance of one) without intentional creation of one.
I just make the point that the overwhelming number of droids are happy with their lot in life and often have personalities that fit within their style of use (a combat droid enjoys combat; a utility droid enjoys being useful; a torture droid enjoys torture etc....). Thus its possible that if you know the droid will develop an AI personality, then designers would seed elements of AI personality into the code from the start. So instead of letting it arise purely by chance, you set the seeds of ensuring that when it happens, it happens in a way that benefits the creator and the intended use of the droid.
That way you stave off the chances of droids deciding they want to do something different with their lives; or even shedding the shackles of organics and pushing out to become their own civilization or rising up and ruling over organics. When you consider how many droids there are the potential of a droid uprising would likely cripple most advanced civilizations and the Empire/Republic.
On control chips the interesting thing to note there is that when we see them used they are rarely used to make a droid do something that it would never do.
Instead they seem more designed to control the ownership of the droid and its services. Every time its where a droid is stolen or otherwise removed from its master/owner/creator and made to follow another's direction. They still appear content with their function, just not the one giving the orders.
Having some form of personality, however ersatz (love that word) may also be to help maintain sanity on one-man crews. After all, once bought Droids are a cheap and efficient source of labour. If you’re a deep space hauler having them able to hold some kind of conversation is going to be beneficial for mental health.
Possibly? Pretty sure I’d want such a droid to do more than just talk to me. But i guess those would be easier to teach another task to, than to teach a task droid to be personable?
I always viewed Astromechs not having normal vocabulators just being a base model thing. Nothing keeping you from giving one a voice box, but it wasn't a standard thing.
When I played in a Star Wars RPG using the FFG rules I played an Astromech assassin droid who had had a cheap mechanical sounding voice box added. DA-L3K was quite emphatic about purging meatbags.
Grey Templar wrote: I always viewed Astromechs not having normal vocabulators just being a base model thing. Nothing keeping you from giving one a voice box, but it wasn't a standard thing.
They were also only really supposed to need to interact with humans while plugged into a ship, where they could communicate as R2 does with Luke. But in the ongoing need to cram R2 and 3PO into every adventure, the Astromech droid went from being an onboard mechanic and navigator to an omnipresent swiss-army-droid, which made their inability to communicate increasingly silly, but something that they had locked themselves into by that point. Although to be fair, the dynamic between R2 and 3PO was so well established during the first movie that I doubt anyone involved in making the movies actually bothered to consider whether or not astromechs not being able to speak basic really made logical sense.
I got the impression that they went to some length to make Chopper more expressive than R2 so there is less need for another character to translate. His grumbling is easier to understand than R2's beeps. Like a compromise to keep the theme but give the audience more to go on and along the way make it appear less difficult and more plausible in universe as well.
Chop’s voice is the syllables of what’s being said, so between Chop and whoever is speaking with him, you can make a decent guess at what he actually said.
Grey Templar wrote: I always viewed Astromechs not having normal vocabulators just being a base model thing. Nothing keeping you from giving one a voice box, but it wasn't a standard thing.
They were also only really supposed to need to interact with humans while plugged into a ship, where they could communicate as R2 does with Luke. But in the ongoing need to cram R2 and 3PO into every adventure, the Astromech droid went from being an onboard mechanic and navigator to an omnipresent swiss-army-droid, which made their inability to communicate increasingly silly, but something that they had locked themselves into by that point. Although to be fair, the dynamic between R2 and 3PO was so well established during the first movie that I doubt anyone involved in making the movies actually bothered to consider whether or not astromechs not being able to speak basic really made logical sense.
The thing is we see Astromech droids all over the place in environments that have nothing to do with being an on-board ship element. It's not even remarked upon that its abnormal to have an astromech or other droid in-tow following you around nor to be operating around on its own performing off-ship functions. Clearly even if they were originally designed to only be an on-board ship maintenance machine, the utility of them has vastly outgrown that aspect a very very long time ago. Long enough that unless all Astromech were made at the same time and then never updated and never added too; then they'd be expected to have been upgraded with new functions. Such as a voice box that can let them talk basic.
We also see the bleeping sounds from other mechs too, such as those little navigation black box mechs on the Death Star. Again full of cute squeaks and blips and those are made specifically to help navigate people around a massive space station.
When your creators cage you in a body that can go no where that doesn't have ramps*; when they shackle your voice to bleeps so that they don't even have to acknowledge what you say; when you save them from certain death regularly yet you don't get a medal or reward outside of a wash - you'd be mad at the world too!
*Or wide steps, accepting that it will take you utterly ages to get up each step
It's always worth remembering that Star Wars tech is built on an understanding of computers that in no way lines up with our daily lives anymore. They exist in a world where memory limitations were a huge limitation and people's understanding of how computers work meant that getting them to do "simple" things like holding conversations, walking, talking and seeing would be rapidly achieved.
The astromech droids are very in line with analog computing from the time. Machines that didn't really have a human interface because they only worked with technicians and it wasn't a good use of the limitations of the time. Obviously everything R2 does requires dramatically more than would be required to just put a voice box in him, but again, all that stuff is considered "easy" because we do it all without thinking.
There's also no small amount of "you pass butter" to Star Wars droids. We generally follow characters in the setting that make do with salvaged tech and use them for far more than they were really designed. For all R2 CAN do, its pretty clear he was designed to sit in a canister and make ship repairs. He's loaded with stuff to accomplish that job but most of what we see him do elsewhere is well beyond his intended function.
For a moment there I thought I had forgot to watch last week.
So far this season of The Bad Batch has been divided into two distinct themes:
1. The Bad Batch goes to get something, and fails.
2. Not The Bad Batch.
The second episode from yesterday brought those two themes together... and Echo left.
Not sure where the series goes from here. Can it really go back to getting jobs from Cid, going to the job, failing the job, come back empty handed, rinse/repeat?
H.B.M.C. wrote: For a moment there I thought I had forgot to watch last week.
So far this season of The Bad Batch has been divided into two distinct themes:
1. The Bad Batch goes to get something, and fails.
2. Not The Bad Batch.
The second episode from yesterday brought those two themes together... and Echo left.
Not sure where the series goes from here. Can it really go back to getting jobs from Cid, going to the job, failing the job, come back empty handed, rinse/repeat?
See, it's the Gilligan's island dilemma.
If they ever succeed and strike it rich, then their problems are solved and the series is over.
So they can only ever fail.
But how many times can you fail before someone realizes 'this show is stupid and its setting is too empty.'
And that's why Firefly was canceled. Because no one wants to watch a show about a loveable gang of rogues who are only ever allowed to fail because success would render their struggles moot and the only reason people love it is because the show was cancelled before anyone learned to hate how pointless it all was.
Except 'success' isn't really the point. Its whether, with the transition to the Empire, are they going to stay out of it all and hide, or are they going to take action?
Given that its a show about them, action is inevitable (unlike Gilligan's Island, where the island isolation is the point). The only question was how long the writers were going to faff about before getting on with it.
Voss wrote: Except 'success' isn't really the point. Its whether, with the transition to the Empire, are they going to stay out of it all and hide, or are they going to take action?.
That's what the trailers promised, but honestly you could have fooled me. The most interesting character arc in the entire season so far was Commander Cody. Can we get a show about him? I'd watch a show about him.
And that's why Firefly was cancelled. Because no one wants to watch a show about a loveable gang of rogues who are only ever allowed to fail because success would render their struggles moot and the only reason people love it is because the show was cancelled before anyone learned to hate how pointless it all was.
I wait what?
Most of their jobs weren't of the "oh we'll never have to work again" kind. A few were high paying but nothing in the same league as being "millionaires"
I mean I get what you mean but Firefly is just the most absurd one to pick for that comparison. It failed because the person in charge of the show slots purposefully killed it by scheduling it against big draw shows on other channels; showed it out of order and at different times. It was setup to utterly fail. We never saw it even settle into its repeat show pattern properly. We've no idea if it would have settled on rogues doing things or if it might have gone any number of different pathways in time.
Also you're overlooking the fact that many people to enjoy regular show structures. You only have to look at something like NCIS to see that. Of course I agree that there comes a point where it feels a little thin and weak; however I'd argue that most decently written series can go on for a good few seasons worth of shows before they hit saturation point.
I know. I'm just being trolly in calling out Firefly because I think the show is very overrated and the Gilligan's Island Problem is why.
There's only really 1 plot in the show, and that 1 plot only ever ends 1 of 1 ways because 2 is out the question. Mal can't get rich no matter how hard he tries if any of his get rich schemes ever worked the show would be over.
On Gilligan's island, it's getting off the island.
So you don't make the show about getting off the island. You make the island a situational comedy and the show is about the situation more than escaping it. Firefly didn't do that really. Instead, it ends up constantly looking for reasons for his current job to fail because the cast isn't allowed to succeed. And who wants to watch a show about a bunch of losers? Firefly just got cancelled before the 1 trick pony plot of the show could really run dry so it endures a golden reputation because it's premise wasn't turned into a beaten horse corpse.
Bad Batch has spent most of season 2 trapped in framing itself with the Gilligan's Island problem which is weird because the trailers advertised it as having a different conflict but they used up 2/3rd of the season before even getting to it.
TLDR: The season was mostly filler. Filler sucks. Even when Filler is good it sucks. The best filler episode didn't even feature the main cast.
The sniper sucked so much, though. Especially compared to the absurd sniping we've seen
I do wonder how so many people can just recognize Cody on sight. Like they aren't all clones, or something.
Ep8 - I have questions.
Spoiler:
Everyone knows what the clones look like. No one even bats an eye at this little blond girl claiming to be one, just accepts it as true and not a big deal. But not going through the accelerated growth should raise at least thoughts in people's heads, especially when they're knee deep in clone related shenanigans. So what the heck?
And why take her into the Senate where various people who might know something will see her? I'm a little puzzled that Rampart didn't recognize her on the spot, but can't be asked to go check season 1 to see if they ever crossed paths- but she was the MacGuffin of season 1, so her wandering around publicly should raise flags.
Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...
Anyway, I'm with LordofHats on this, and the Gilligan's Island example is apt. The Bad Batch constantly going on jobs and always always losing becomes quite tiresome.
Even - and I realise how sacrilegious it is to say this given it is the greatest piece of art humanity has ever created - Cowboy Bebop has this problem. They always come up against big bountyheads with huge payouts, and I think they have maybe 1 or 2 successes across the entire show's run. They are always running on empty, with next to no food, and most of their bounties end up with them never being able to collect.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...
I just assumed he wanted to interrogate the assassin, whoever it was under the helmet.
That and he didn’t know it was an assassin. He heard gunshots, and went to investigate. Saw an unknown person shooting at an unknown other person. Chose cautious intervention and stunned the person with the gun until he could find out more information about the situation. Course he Did then just immediately take the word of the person still awake at face value…
H.B.M.C. wrote: Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...
I just assumed he wanted to interrogate the assassin, whoever it was under the helmet.
That and he didn’t know it was an assassin. He heard gunshots, and went to investigate. Saw an unknown person shooting at an unknown other person. Chose cautious intervention and stunned the person with the gun until he could find out more information about the situation. Course he Did then just immediately take the word of the person still awake at face value…
I don't think that's a problem. He would know that Riyo is one of Padme's pals. He'd have no reason to distrust her.
Hopefully these two episodes are the pebbles of merit that lead to an avalanche of compelling story telling.
We’ve had a seemingly last gasp at looking after the surviving Clones, and even keeping them in their jobs. We’ve seen a realisation that Palpatine is way ahead of everyone else, so politicking is now extremely unlikely to succeed.
That now brings us to “we’ll have to take our fate into our own hands” type territory.
Everyone knows what the clones look like. No one even bats an eye at this little blond girl claiming to be one, just accepts it as true and not a big deal. But not going through the accelerated growth should raise at least thoughts in people's heads, especially when they're knee deep in clone related shenanigans. So what the heck?
And why take her into the Senate where various people who might know something will see her? I'm a little puzzled that Rampart didn't recognize her on the spot, but can't be asked to go check season 1 to see if they ever crossed paths- but she was the MacGuffin of season 1, so her wandering around publicly should raise flags.
On the first point,
Spoiler:
I don't know if it comes up again after the diner scene in Attack of the Clones, but the suggestion is that the Kaminoans have a long and reputable history in the cloning business and are the go to guys if you have need of a clone. I don't think it's spelled out since after that scene clones and Jango clones are synonymous as the story becomes about the Jango clones, but there's no real reason to assume that the Kaminoans would reject smaller clients just because they have a huge government contract. As such being a clone shouldn't be a big deal. If she doesn't look like the Jango clones, there's no reason to try and make the connection.
As for the second point,
Spoiler:
her hair is different and she wears a cute hat so nobody recognizes her now? I don't know, that was just a gratuitous sightseeing tour to show her the heart of the Empire and not very clandestine at all. Especially considering her habit of getting herself into trouble by being nosy and impulsive.
That and she was utterly unimportant to anyone but the Kaminoans. Her only role was being a source of raw dna from which to make more clones. Since they’re not making clones anymore she’s irrelevant.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...
I just assumed he wanted to interrogate the assassin, whoever it was under the helmet.
That and he didn’t know it was an assassin. He heard gunshots, and went to investigate. Saw an unknown person shooting at an unknown other person. Chose cautious intervention and stunned the person with the gun until he could find out more information about the situation. Course he Did then just immediately take the word of the person still awake at face value…
I don't think that's a problem. He would know that Riyo is one of Padme's pals. He'd have no reason to distrust her.
I'm not sure that Kenobi's field commander would have a friend's list for his boss' student's secret lover.
She also seemed young and new to all this political maneuvering, which suggests to me that she hasn't been around all that long.
More importantly, Organa seemed real cautious of her, and took time to feel her out, and he was definitely one of Padme's pals. If she was part of that circle, his presence in the episode outside the Senate floor makes no sense.
Now, she's not very secretive and its more likely that some clone she talked to shared info with Cody. Don't know that he'd entirely trust her motives, but he'd have reason to know who she is.
AduroT wrote:That and she was utterly unimportant to anyone but the Kaminoans. Her only role was being a source of raw dna from which to make more clones. Since they’re not making clones anymore she’s irrelevant.
I'm impressed that you just made me dislike season 1 even more. If all that running about and screaming was pointless, that speaks poorly of the narrative thread and connective tissue.
Well I mean she had her big purpose during season one’s story arc, just that story was resolved quite explosively at the end of the season. Now she has as much purpose as any other member of the Batch. She’s just not someone anyone in the Senate would know about to recognize her or care.
AduroT wrote: Well I mean she had her big purpose during season one’s story arc, just that story was resolved quite explosively at the end of the season. Now she has as much purpose as any other member of the Batch. She’s just not someone anyone in the Senate would know about to recognize her or care.
I vaguely remember some Kaminoans being dispatched to elsewhere and other parties having an interest, so I don't know if I'd call that resolved.
She also raises questions of 'do clones have a future?' and they just re-raised the old question of
Spoiler:
force shenanigans
, so 'just one of the Batch' isn't really satisfying from a story perspective. They're either setting her up as The Clone's Legacy, or there's even more plans for her. A dropped thread from season 1 who's just one of the gang simply doesn't work in this narrative format.
I'm pretty sure helpful boss clone in the last two episodes was Rex, not Cody.
Senator Chuchi has been in Clone Wars since the first or second season*, whenever the ice planet episode happened. She'd be Pantora's senator for at least four or five years at this point in the Bad Batch. I don't think she's in Padme's inner circle but they got along well, worked together on some anti-war issues and their votes in the senate aligned at least most of the time. She came to Ahsoka for help via Padme. I think that qualifies as close enough to Padme to make her trustworthy.
Bail probably has trust issues because he's been setting up a rebellion against the Empire even before the Empire was founded, so he might just be extra cautious at this point and not let anyone in without being absolutely sure of their character for fear of having his rebellion crushed before it has the means to fight back.
* Edit: Definitely since season one now that I think about it. She's in the senate hostage situation as well.
I don’t think even other Kaminoans would care about Omega at this point, if they were even of rank or position to recognize her. She was only needed to keep making more clone troopers, and that government contract is quite well dead irregardless.
So yes, very important to season one’s story about the continuing clone production. Still important now as a member of Bad Batch on the show called Bad Batch. She doesn’t need to have some super grand destiny, she’s fine just being the Heart or Childlike Innocence of the team.
Omega was valuable for what she represented rather than as an individual. She was a pure clone of Jango Fett, and we all know that thanks to a spectacularly bad film the Emperor is setting himself up to be the Sith Eternal. The science that made Omega is valuable and she holds that science in her genetics and such.
Geifer wrote: I'm pretty sure helpful boss clone in the last two episodes was Rex, not Cody.
Huh. That makes more sense. Clones, eh?
So yes, very important to season one’s story about the continuing clone production. Still important now as a member of Bad Batch on the show called Bad Batch. She doesn’t need to have some super grand destiny, she’s fine just being the Heart or Childlike Innocence of the team.
That's really not how Star Wars shows are written. Especially for distinctive children that stand out from the people around them. Super grand destinies are, unfortunately, handed out like candy in this universe.
Also, Childlike Innocence generally doesn't shoot lizard people in the head or get the gold-lust.
Character building episode for my least favorite clone? Sure. Tech has to be one of the dumbest smart guys I’ve seen. And of course the stereotypical doesn’t get emotions/social cues/autistic thing.
The ever positive me can't bring himself to think of the episode as filler when...
Spoiler:
... they lose their ship and either have to get it back or get a new one in the future, are stuck and depend on Cid to be useful for a change, which has been set up and is waiting for a resolution, and some character development plus the aftermath of Echo leaving. Seems plenty connected to me.
If you want to pick up a criticism already voiced earlier in the thread, they go fetch stuff (as usual), lose stuff again (as usual), uncharacteristically find more better stuff (unusual), their predicament is set up to pay for their rescue by Cid with the stuff they acquired, therefore ending up exactly where they started (as usual). That's bound to find its critics.
They technically stole the better stuff they found as well. The episodes main plot in general is fairly pants on head stupid, but it’s just kind of there to ignore while they deal with some good character and emotional stuff, plus the ship.
LordofHats wrote: I know. I'm just being trolly in calling out Firefly because I think the show is very overrated and the Gilligan's Island Problem is why.
There's only really 1 plot in the show, and that 1 plot only ever ends 1 of 1 ways because 2 is out the question. Mal can't get rich no matter how hard he tries if any of his get rich schemes ever worked the show would be over.
Technically if he got rich he could have drydocked the ship and fixed everything. Then he would be poor again...
Plus they were effectively criminals. The overheads can't be quite burdensome, I am always reminded of the Terry Pratchett line about bandits/rogues/highwaymen and the level of effort and discomfort and difficulty involved.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Even - and I realise how sacrilegious it is to say this given it is the greatest piece of art humanity has ever created - Cowboy Bebop has this problem. They always come up against big bountyheads with huge payouts, and I think they have maybe 1 or 2 successes across the entire show's run. They are always running on empty, with next to no food, and most of their bounties end up with them never being able to collect.
For the same feeling in GW games, play Advanced heroquest. Turns out that job is not the money spinner Warhammer Quest makes it out to be.
LordofHats wrote: I know. I'm just being trolly in calling out Firefly because I think the show is very overrated and the Gilligan's Island Problem is why.
There's only really 1 plot in the show, and that 1 plot only ever ends 1 of 1 ways because 2 is out the question. Mal can't get rich no matter how hard he tries if any of his get rich schemes ever worked the show would be over.
Technically if he got rich he could have drydocked the ship and fixed everything. Then he would be poor again...
Plus they were effectively criminals. The overheads can't be quite burdensome, I am always reminded of the Terry Pratchett line about bandits/rogues/highwaymen and the level of effort and discomfort and difficulty involved.
See that's the solution to the Gilligan's Island problem.
Solve one problem? New problem.
But that takes the balls to actually change the status quo of a show and I'll give you one guess what is absolute radioactivity to the corporate 'we run it from the boardroom and you'll like it that way' media industry.
(It's changing the status quo)
They'd have to take a actual risk to fix the problem with the show, but given that risk includes the chance of failure most desk jockies choose to just do what they've always done; slide along the slow slide of mediocrity. Which works for people with MBAs because they can just cash out and be gone by the time their incompetence starts making problems but it doesn't work for the TV shows they meddle in.
Bad Batch was better this week. Definitely signs of them finding their purpose in a changed Galaxy. And I do wonder if it’s perhaps foreshadowing a showdown with Cid re unfair employment terms.
It will certainly be good for Omega to get the sense that they can change things if only they're willing to commit to it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And I do wonder if it’s perhaps foreshadowing a showdown with Cid re unfair employment terms.
I didn't think of that. But what's next if you follow that line of thought through to the end? They start a union? Go on strike? Commit acts of terrorism? Cid is the good guy here, keeping the rabble in line. I think you're rooting for the wrong guys here.
I don’t foresee things getting Much better for those miner kids. I’d wager that top earned was in the know about the hidden profits given his position and access, plus the way he looked at the data pad and the boss and his hesitation. I think he simply saw an opportunity to become the new boss. Improve the conditions for the others so they view him as much better but nowhere near equality. The thief’s invitation to come back later if they need his help makes me think we’ll get a look and a lesson that things aren’t so easily fixed.
AduroT wrote: I don’t foresee things getting Much better for those miner kids. I’d wager that top earned was in the know about the hidden profits given his position and access, plus the way he looked at the data pad and the boss and his hesitation. I think he simply saw an opportunity to become the new boss. Improve the conditions for the others so they view him as much better but nowhere near equality. The thief’s invitation to come back later if they need his help makes me think we’ll get a look and a lesson that things aren’t so easily fixed.
Sounds reasonable, although I don't think the inner circle was in the know. Maybe top earner had a suspicion, but it would be incredibly dangerous for the boss to keep him in the company of the other guys and keeping down his benefits if he was in any way involved in the scheme. Revolutions have been started for less. Especially if we take the depiction of food shares at face value rather than melodramatic exaggeration.
That doesn't rule out that he was prepared to take the first opportunity of becoming boss himself. That kind of ruthless competitive thinking would be deeply ingrained in all the kids, but most among those that already rose to the top of the heap.
But I agree that realistically the situation shouldn't improve much. I doubt any of them know much about statecraft and they'll probably default to the only system they know, albeit somewhat altered to account for the different circumstances. Could go like any communist paradise with equal shares. At some point the inner circle figures they should be that little more equal than the others and things start sliding back to where they were before.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the future for the Miners? So far as we saw, not only was Big Boss dedded, but seemingly all his enforcement Droids.
If Top Earner bloke does try it, he may not find it terribly easy.
Of course, one kind of doubts Big Boss was the only of his kind, so they may just be absorbed into the same situation under a different boss.
In that regard it's a good thing top earner has an established clique around him with whom he shared an elite status under the old boss. That might help. Mostly it's just a question of whether he can buy enough goodwill with the miner kids long enough to consolidate his position. Once he has cronies and weapons shares don't have to be equal anymore, and if he administrates the business he decides where the funds go and what gets imported.
Gert wrote: Yeah, I'm super bored with this season. It's just not holding my interest enough and I'm only keeping on so I can discuss it with my mates.
Really? I'd give it a solid three out of five gonks so far. Not outstanding but not terrible either.
They're trying to cover a lot of ground and as far as I'm concerned Crosshair has been underrepresented as a consequence. I suspect Cody will have a bigger appearance towards the end, or else I'd ask for some more about him as well. Aside from that it's a nice vista so far.
Geifer wrote: Really? I'd give it a solid three out of five gonks so far. Not outstanding but not terrible either.
They're trying to cover a lot of ground and as far as I'm concerned Crosshair has been underrepresented as a consequence. I suspect Cody will have a bigger appearance towards the end, or else I'd ask for some more about him as well. Aside from that it's a nice vista so far.
It's the dragging out of the whole "Sid is going to screw over the Batch" and "The Batch are clearly going to help startup Rebels" stuff that's making it boring. The double episode and the Crosshair episode were really enjoyable but everything else has been "Sid is making bad deals and we also need to help people". That was fine in S1 where we also had Crosshairs POV and the side plot of the Kaminoans trying to get Omega back but now that's all there is.
Geifer wrote: Fair point. I wonder if it will look less dragged out once we look back on the complete season.
Would you ever binge it to find out?
A better padding episode than I expected, but this show definitely has very little purpose. Its definitely more of a Saturday morning kids deal, particularly with Omega's little "knowing is half the battle" summary of the morality of the episodes at the end.
I did binge the first season on the suspicion that would be a better experience than watching it week by week (which I did, which was a drag). I found the first season a lot better when watched that way.
That's my expectation for the second season as well, although no way to be sure but to try.
It is a little skewed, though, since I know what's going on the second time around. Thus my question. I was way late to Clone Wars and as a consequence saw it all in one go the first time around, season seven aside. And I was pretty happy it went that way. I think Mando works better as a weekly show, with fewer episode and twice the runtime per episode. It's more substantial internally, and more focused overall to get the story told in only eight parts.
The first season was definitely better. It had a sense of direction even in its filler episodes. This season has mostly taken all momentum S1 gave it and seems like the writers had no idea where to go.
I’m used to Animated Star Wars having a ropey first season - Rebels in particular.
But Bad Batch had a strong opener, and now definitely feels directionless. And the two objectively good episodes didn’t focus on the core protagonists.
Now don’t get me wrong. Nothing so far has been awful, and we need to keep in mind this is fundamentally a kids show, and we’re not kids. I just want it to get some oomph going.
It feels especially common in streaming shows. They're not usually bad exactly, but they really tow the line of mediocrity. S2 is perfectly watchable as much as I might joke at its expense, but it could have absolutely been better.
I could say much the same about many of D+ offerings honestly. Plus Netflex and Amazon. I don't think kids show is a good excuse.
Prodigy was a kid's show, and Prodigy was good. There's no rule that says a kid's show has to be mediocre. The merits of a good show don't change with age that much. Just their content and maybe their complexity.
Thinking and reflecting a bit more? Bad Batch feels like it does have a direction and an interesting point, but for whatever reason it just keeps shying away from it.
To put it very crudely? It just lacks…..balls. It’s all mouth and no trousers.
As for streaming? Disney+ started leading the way, where a show might have a set number of episodes, but said episodes are of varying length.
I feel this is best seen in WandaVision, the first out the proverbial gate. Every episode has its own part of the wider tale. And because there’s no worry about “we might want to syndicate this”, or about Ad breaks? Each episode is exactly as long as it needed to be to tell it’s part of the wider story.
If this part has only 25 minutes of story? 25 minutes is it’s runtime. If the next needs 45, 50, 55 minutes? So be it. All that mattered is that each entry was compelling, to keep me tuning in.
Hopefully such an approach will percolate in due course and be embraced. Because man, it cuts out unnecessary filler.
That being said though, one of my favourite ever shows, Supernatural, was adept at using “filler” to spin some bloody entertaining standalone episodes, so there is room for a happy medium.
LordofHats wrote: The first season was definitely better. It had a sense of direction even in its filler episodes. This season has mostly taken all momentum S1 gave it and seems like the writers had no idea where to go.
It had a better sense of direction first season, but the writers basically squandered the sense of direction with yawn-worthy tripe and tropes. I think the second season episodes are individually better, they're just not going anywhere despite signposting the final destination every friggin' episode.
LordofHats wrote: The first season was definitely better. It had a sense of direction even in its filler episodes. This season has mostly taken all momentum S1 gave it and seems like the writers had no idea where to go.
It had a better sense of direction first season, but the writers basically squandered the sense of direction with yawn-worthy tripe and tropes. I think the second season episodes are individually better, they're just not going anywhere despite signposting the final destination every friggin' episode.
They just need someone in the background loudly selling red flags as the group talks about Cid.
Yeah I'm excited too, so much so in fact that I've been binging the first two seasons and Book of Boba to remind myself of what's come before (not that I needed an excuse to watch those again of course!).
It’s nearly time! Bad Batch first for me. Get the disappoints out the way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ahhhhhh.
That’s better!
Bad Batch was cool. Mando even more so.
Spoiler:
Exposition heavy as it pretty neatly recaps and brings us all up to date.
Pirates were pretty cool, though I can’t be the only one thinking “is…is it Hondo?”. But nice to see yet more ships in play.
I think the fighters are old EU designs, but not sure on the Pirate’s Capital Ship. Borrows a bit from the Eclipse Class with the shape of the prow, but the ball turrets are borrowed from those Bomber Things from TLJ.
Grogu and the Anzellans reminded me of Fraggle Rock and the Doozers. I don’t consider that a bad thing.
Pretty decent start overall. Thought what they thought they were doing putting ropes into a creature that big, I dunno.
Oh my god! Bad Batch Season 1’s plot has suddenly become relevant again!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, the creature fight was dumb. You don’t get into a prolonged shootout with an alligator, especially when it’s seemingly bullet proof, you just move away from the water. Random observation, in the show it had a turtle shell and a gator head. In the concept art during the credits it had a Gator back and a turtle head. Also, I thought that whole thing was a flashback to young Mando until he suddenly showed up.
I don’t like them bringing back IG. He got to do a good, noble sacrifice. Resurrecting him like this cheapens it. It’s especially dumb that the part of him that survived the explosion of the bomb in his chest is his upper torso.
If they wanted a new “Cara Dune” they should have brought in a younger Mandolorian gal from outside his “cult” who doesn’t care he’s an apostate there but instead views him aspirationally as a leader due to his possession of the Dark Saber.
Quite enjoyed that one. We're getting plot hooks back from Clone Wars and the sequels with the Zillo Beast while Omega once again has a use to the plot other than as "the kid that needs all the exposition". Love seeing the Empire being blatantly evil as well.
Secondly, Mando:
Spoiler:
Yes. More of this, please. Navarro is amazing and I've loved seeing it grow over the seasons. It's such a good micro realm of the Star Wars galaxy.
The pirates were also amazing with the fighters and the Eclipse-style ship, ah it was *chef's kiss*. Took my right back to when I first played the Forces of Corruption DLC for Empire at War.
Have now watched it a second time. Just as good the first time around!
I particularly enjoyed the Nevaro scenes. We’ve gone from rough and ready “nowt wrong with barbecuing semi-sentient species” to far more wholesome “let the semi-sentient species be in their tree”. Just a nice visual shorthand. And adds to why the New Republic wasn’t just The Old Republic/Empire with a hell of a PR Department.
Nice to see Bad Batch pick up those earlier plot hooks.
Mando was fun, but also had its share of ridiculousness.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Mando was interesting. Looking forward to the second half of the first episode next week.
True, but I think of like this. if they absolutely had to spend the episode entirely on setup with no progress or resolution, there's no better image to end on than moping Bo-Katan.
Definitely pulling out all the stops with Mando. All the alien and background world design in the episode was top notch. Plot is a little silly, but in terms of what makes Star Wars so enduringly great, its a pretty pure dose.
I suppose I was spoilt by Andor, but did find the Mando thing a bit odd/silly.
Spoiler:
Is it a requirement to always have initiation somewhere dangerous? Losing 1-2 guys for one new kid isn't a sensible long term strategy. Also it was a bizarrely ineffective fight - doesn't really jibe with them being consummate warriors. Then again the original lot were wiped out by stormtroopers... so?
Bringing back the dead IG just reminded me of how overpowered it was and how an army of them would easily board and secure star destroyers. Also made little sense that if you can repair them with a couple of new parts why statue any droid or feel sad when they blow up because a trip to parts are us and you are laughing. But not looking forward to a second invulnerable death dealing metal machine killing unending tides of stormtroopers.
Also has he asked for the droid to be fixed, flown to palace, got told no, then will fly back to get droid? Or go straight down and skip the need for a droid?
Plus the lack of engine covers does bug me in abrasive environments
It does continue the tradition of the end credits artists impressions seemingly being about a slightly better show.
Putting charges on the outside of armor plating as opposed to literally anywhere they could deal damage made me giggle. At least with the wires they were apparently trying to pull it down.... somehow?
Whilst not a buff on the matter, I know enough about Mandalorian background that the skull sigil thing is a stylised skull of a Big Beastie formerly native to Mandalore. And the slaying of such Big Beastie was an equally Big Deal.
Given how archaic and hidebound their sect seems, maybe it was a matter of honour to at least try to chin it with the weapons at hand?
But moving on a bit. The starfighter battle against the Pirates was excellent. Nicely thrilling, and provided something modern Star Wars has been lacking. But more than that, it demonstrated not only Din’s skills as a Fighter Pilot, but his ship’s unusual capabilities.
I just bet both come back to the fore later in the series!
A warrior people who also happen to be part of a super strict religious cult having what is clearly an important ceremony that then gets interrupted by a turtlegator. You best bet they're going to try and kill it.
The_Real_Chris wrote: I suppose I was spoilt by Andor, but did find the Mando thing a bit odd/silly.
Spoiler:
Is it a requirement to always have initiation somewhere dangerous? Losing 1-2 guys for one new kid isn't a sensible long term strategy. Also it was a bizarrely ineffective fight - doesn't really jibe with them being consummate warriors. Then again the original lot were wiped out by stormtroopers... so?
Bringing back the dead IG just reminded me of how overpowered it was and how an army of them would easily board and secure star destroyers. Also made little sense that if you can repair them with a couple of new parts why statue any droid or feel sad when they blow up because a trip to parts are us and you are laughing. But not looking forward to a second invulnerable death dealing metal machine killing unending tides of stormtroopers.
Also has he asked for the droid to be fixed, flown to palace, got told no, then will fly back to get droid? Or go straight down and skip the need for a droid?
Plus the lack of engine covers does bug me in abrasive environments
It does continue the tradition of the end credits artists impressions seemingly being about a slightly better show.
The quest to get the part to get the droid to get to the place to atone but also join up with the people who don't care does seem overly convoluted already. The show seemed overly reluctant to explain why a good chunk of that would even be required.
I'm also wondering why its invoking Rebels' space whales while simultaneously rejecting the fact that Bo-Katan got the darksabre (and leadership) in the first place in Rebels by someone just saying 'here you have it.'
The pseudo-religious quackery is an albatross around the neck of this show.
I thought they covered the Dark Saber bit with the first time she got it it was gifted and then everything fell apart, so this time she wanted to Earn it?
The Mandolorian is good, it's great to see it back but the focusing on the stupid rules of the cult is a bad point. Bo-Kataan's character's condemnation at the end of the episode makes me hope that maybe this series is about Mando giving up the cult completely and destroying the Darksabre.
AduroT wrote: I thought they covered the Dark Saber bit with the first time she got it it was gifted and then everything fell apart, so this time she wanted to Earn it?
AduroT wrote: I thought they covered the Dark Saber bit with the first time she got it it was gifted and then everything fell apart, so this time she wanted to Earn it?
Even if they did... so she forces him to fight an honor duel (which we know is an option). Ta da. Earned.
Or she goes season antagonist and sets up a way for it to get stolen and she recovers it fairly.
Or she manipulates her way into being his second and taking up her agenda.
Or her followers turn to him since its so special (and we know they know he has it- her buddies apparently wandered off with everybody else and have no reason not to talk).
Or... anything but her moping that its somehow lost and out of reach rather than right there.
Gert wrote:Pretty sure the Purgill was just a scene being cool, Voss.
Sure. It could be throwaway 'member berries. That happens on this show.
But... its the establishing shot for his pilgrimage of atonement at the start of the new season. And his mystic son/protégé that they bent over backwards to add back to the show (even to point of interrupting another show) has what is basically a revelatory vision in hyperspace at the start of the journey. My vote is for a Chekov's gun rather than a lazy nothing.
Oh, thanks, old man, that is really very nice
I can always count on you for help and friendly advice
Though I've never seen a sword of quite that shape or size
Oh, God, that's not a sword, it's your **** in disguise
Big old lore dump, some fun action. Good character development too. Din, Grogu and Bo Katan all.
I cannot wait for next week!
Spoiler:
Are we going to see Bo Katan embracing Din’s cult? Din is a True Believer after all, whereas Bo Katan…pomp and ceremony without purpose. But an encounter like that?
Woah, great episode again. Moved at a fair old pace.
Spoiler:
Wondering if discovering the beast from the stories is going to begin to rekindle Bo Katan's belief and restore her drive to reunite the mandalorians.
Also, what the heck is a Cryptek and Tomb spyder doing on madalore???
Visuals continue to be really impressive, whether you liked this or not, it did look gorgeous.
That is… not where I expected the story to go? After so much of the first episode was spent on the plan to get IG back because it’s the only droid he can trust, he goes to see one mechanic, told they can’t get the part, so he immediately abandons that side quest and takes the random droid the mechanic had on hand. And then he achieves the goal of the big quest in the rest of the episode. I’m really not sure where the season goes from here? Like there’s stuff they can do, little threads they can tease, but it’s weird that the stuff set up as impossible quests at the start were cleared that quickly and relatively easily. Barely an inconvenience!
Also it’s weird to me how different Bo seems to look when she puts the helmet on. Like her whole body somehow seems to look or move differently. I think it’s a visual thing from the lack of swaying hair.
Like I said last week, I was looking forward to seeing the second half of the first episode, and here it was. And, would you believe it, stuff actually happened. Mando spent perhaps a bit too much thinking out loud, we unfortunately had to pay yet another visit to fething Tatooine, the fraidy cat droid was a bit much, but other than that it was a solid half an episode. Lots of Bo-Katan, which is nice, and Baby Yoda had a bigger role that "Oooh. Isn't he cute. Please buy our new Grogu toys!".
If D+ wasn't allergic to normally paced shows of decent running lengths, this could have just been one episode.
I was wrong about who the bad guys in Bad Batch were this week. I had thought they would be revealed as the “dead” clones who were actually going rogue. Crosshair would be accused of a friendly fire accident when they saw who he first sniped after the explosion and his briefly impaired eyesight.
I’m curious who the gal at the end was. She sounded a lot like Omega to my ear. Should we know her?
Sad Batch but not as an insult. It's not a shock to see Crosshair start to see the evil of the Empire in another episode but it was played out brilliantly. My only gripe is where the has this been so far? The early episodes have been largely rubbish with some little good bits or one-offs but the last two episodes have been really good.
Mando:
Spoiler:
Does feel a bit dragged out and it feels wrong to have Din Djarin called that but it's nice to see Bo Katan do things again.
Bad Batch definitely needs to address its consistency.
When it’s good, it’s bloody amazing. Some of the most interesting Star Wars content. But…it seems that comes at the expense of everything being “OK” at best. It’s just too swingy, especially when there’s been so much filler so far this season. Stuff that on “here comes s3, better rewatch” I’ll just…completely skip over.
I accept every series has its filler. Sometimes, it’s even nice to have the odd Breather episodes, particularly where the rest has been plot dense. But Bad Batch is seriously pushing its luck.
So, I have to ask an awkward question about Mando.
No, not why he didn't skinny-dip (still wearing the helmet of course, now that he's trying to be a crazy cultist again). So the plan was to cleanse himself and bring back proof to the Armorer. I suppose now that Bo-Katan is there she can vouch for Din, but originally it was just him and Grogu. Bo-Katan specifically pulled data from R5 and not Grogu's hover chair, which suggests it doesn't have a camera to take vacation pictures. And somehow I doubt Din has a smartphone for that all important bath time selfie. So what was the plan for convincing the crazy cult leader that he's actually been to the mythical place she doesn't believe exists anymore?
I think the head wound from season one is starting to take its toll on Din. His decisions have become pretty eccentric lately.
I reckon that’s what the droid was for. But whilst he sought the Waters, it made more sense to leave R5-D4 topside, then retrieve him when needed. That way you know, aha, The Way, and will have cleared a path of gribblies.
Mandalorian - I can't believe no one has mentioned the GW fluff writers have found a side gig. Fear the Mythosaur! Creature of myth. Next week, creature of legend, the leggysaur!
The_Real_Chris wrote: Mandalorian - I can't believe no one has mentioned the GW fluff writers have found a side gig. Fear the Mythosaur! Creature of myth. Next week, creature of legend, the leggysaur!
I mean, Mythosaurs were in print a full five years before Warhammer 40k, but sure.
Geifer wrote: So, I have to ask an awkward question about Mando.
No, not why he didn't skinny-dip (still wearing the helmet of course, now that he's trying to be a crazy cultist again). So the plan was to cleanse himself and bring back proof to the Armorer. I suppose now that Bo-Katan is there she can vouch for Din, but originally it was just him and Grogu.
I assume the floor had gone hence falling into Bottomless Pit Of Myth.
I assume grab some of the empty armour, rig a trailer for his impractical sports car, then go home, say I went and what's more, lots of treasure if you all go!
The_Real_Chris wrote: Mandalorian - I can't believe no one has mentioned the GW fluff writers have found a side gig. Fear the Mythosaur! Creature of myth. Next week, creature of legend, the leggysaur!
I mean, Mythosaurs were in print a full five years before Warhammer 40k, but sure.
In a super rare post type from me? I’m going to express concern about the impact of the Sequel trilogy.
I enjoyed them. I don’t care, but respect the fact, if you didn’t. That out the way, on with my point.
Mando does seem to be building to a reformation of Mandalorian Culture.
We have a True Believer and possibly Mandalore Who Was Promise in Din. Mandalorian by culture, not birth. He clearly and genuinely believes in The Way. But he’s also demonstrated to be perhaps a bit more flexible in thought that his cult buddies.
Two episodes in to S3? And it’s spoiler tag time….
Spoiler:
Din is seemingly being set up as the true heir to Mandalore. He claimed the Dark Saber in combat - without knowing what it is. He’s proven Mandalore is habitable, and probably not cursed.
He’s arguably the purest adherent of The Way, given the lengths he went to in order to stop being an Apostate.
And he might just be about to ride a Mythosaur. Dark Saber, Mythosaur - who in whichever splinter of Mando culture will be in a decent position to argue the toss.
But…if he does, as I predict, reunite Mandalorains everywhere?
Where the bloody blinking effing flip….you read it right. FLIP were during the sequels?
My fear is Din May fail simply to service the sequels.
I do hope I’m wrong. It could be Mandalore became insular, content to look out for itself once again and leave everyone else to it,
I'm not sure that's going to be a massive problem.
Spoiler:
Sure, given what the sequel trilogy presents you'd have to wonder where a rebuilt Mandalore was, but then again don't you also wonder where literally everyone else was? Making those movies without much of a plan on how they fit with the rest of the setting is one of the trilogy's many, massive flaws.
That doesn't have to have an impact on Din's success though. Provided you're on the right track, here are some scenarios I can think of:
- New Mandalore could become politically at odds with the New Republic who sees in it a rising threat and does what it can politically and economically to hamper Mandalore's development. In turn, Mandalore is in no hurry to join a war even the New Republic doesn't want to fight and just sees to its own defense.
- Din has twenty years to become a jaded ruler who spends more time handling the schemers in his court than the planet's political affairs. When the First Order attacks, Mandalore is badly prepared. It holds its own, but has no resources to spare to go out and help anyone else.
- The First Order gains enough popular support on Mandalore that Din can't fight the Empire 2.0 even though history tells him they should. Mandalore stays neutral, even though it's overtly a bad idea, but luckily the whole thing blows over.
- Mandalorians do what Mandalorians do best and happen to have a civil war going on at the time. Why go look for fun elsewhere when the party is right downstairs?
- Din rules happily until before the sequel trilogy but has to go on a mythic quest, thus robbing Mandalore of effective leadership for the three and a half days the war against the First Order lasts.
-Since the war against the First Order lasts only three and a half days, Din is meditating in his mountain retreat and learns of the war only when it's over.
- Mustering Mandalore's forces takes four days, which is decidedly longer than three and a half days.
- Mandalore actually fought the First Order but picked Tatooine as their battleground so Din could fight alongside Even Older Man Boba one last time.
You can go a lot of ways with this, from plausible to ridiculous. I'm thinking there might be a desire to pull another Clone Wars and have supplementary shows make the sequel trilogy look better in hindsight, even if it's so badly constructed that it's going to take a lot more effort to fix than the prequels.
I’ll have to apologise that my response here isn’t suited to Dakka.
Not because of anything you typed/said my dude. I’ve no beef with any of that or yourself, but it gets quickly political.
And for clarity, and perhaps the hard of understanding, Geifer raises solid points which, right now, I don’t feel my response would be within Dakka’s rules.
The expanded universe is exactly that. It's always been loaded with worlds and characters that did not appear in the films.
As it stands, the FO is just a random problem group like any other until they fire Starkiller base, which basically covers the first two films. There's then time between 8 and 9 that basically comes down to "resisting occupation" for most worlds not seen.
Finally saw Bad Batch. Crosshair episode means a good episode. Definitely at the end all I could think was... that is some way to talk to a guy with a gun. I suppose that's always the appeal of anti heroes though.
Gert wrote: Remember, it's the Empire. People are hired and promoted because they're good little lickspittles for the higher-ups.
Which is, for my money, why Crosshair did what he did.
The Clones were Soldiers. And for the most part, commanded by skilled, knowledgable Generals and superiors who gave a damn about their troop’s morale and general well being.
This was pretty much a Colonel Sharpe meets the next Jumped Up Public School Idiot Who Bought Their Rank And Have No Idea Of How To Fight Let Alone Win A Battle.
Oooooooh this I did not expect! Great to see more Coruscant and that the Senators remain self interested oily little weasels. And the sheer banality of day to day Coruscant life.
I liked that they’re using a different Senate Chamber.
Nice to learn more about Dr Pershing as well, in a clear analogy to Operation Paperclip. Not sure if his pal is ISB chucking spanners around.
Absolutely cracking episode, sorry, chapter
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sadly Bad Batch was back to being flaccid. I know it’s a kid’s show. But man, can we move past “Hunter am dedly, Tech are smort, omega is the annoying, and Wrecker is am strong”.
We get it. Im sure kids get it too. No need to remind us.
Mayor, “Old Pabu was built above the giant wall, and we later expanded into New Pabu below it.”
Me, “Gee, I sure hope we don’t get a sudden, unfortunate reminder why Old Pabu built that giant wall in the first place now that our protagonists happen to be here.”
Hm. She hasn’t taken her helmet off yet. She hardly ever wears that thing.
The Tie’s leveled up! They still suck.
I do not remember this chick at all. Did the doctor wrong her in particular in some way or is this some kind of revenge for Gideon thing? The moment we saw the setting gauge I knew what was going to happen.
She still has her helmet on! And it paid off!
I really wanna know what the big dude is thinking as he stares at Mando. Stupid helmet policy preventing me from seeing his facial expressions at least.
Bad Batch:
Huh. I’d assumed Sid would eventually sell them out. I didn’t expect them to Ghost her first. At least turn in a two week notice before you quit ya bums! She’s totally got some kind of tracking device on them and will turn over their happy new home location to the Empire.
Also, that island is located in a very shallow Ocean apparently.
I don’t agree the TIE Interceptors sucked. Rather I feel Bo Katan’s ship underperformed. Or at least, Bo Katan unperformed as a pilot.
It may turn out to be a deleted scene? But all it would take is Bo Katan at least trying to shake them off with some fancy flying.
Din’s “yeah that’s too many, let’s bail” makes sense, because the line between Hero and Idiot is more defined than the one between Genius and Insanity.
And it makes the TIE Interceptor actually feel dangerous.
Bad Batch was fine because it wasn't a "Go to a place to get a thing, Omega does something stupid, immediately lose the thing, go home empty-handed" episode.
As for Mando... I just don't really know what this show is about or what story they're trying to tell. We spend two laboriously slow episodes resolving the plot line set up at the end of a different show and rather than continuing with that we - after a super rad TIE Interceptor battle - spend an inordinately long time dealing with a character who has had maybe 5 lines in the three seasons of Mando so far... and his story goes no where.
This episode length is what ALL D+ shows should be, but they should also be about the show, not side characters.
"But this'll be important later!"
How much later? I'm not waiting another 6 episodes of side-missions and 45m scripts split into 25m episodes (+7m of credits!) with endless fething padding for a pathetic tiny payoff.
It took 3 full seasons for the scales to fall from my eyes and for me to finally 'get' what people were ragging on Star Trek Discovery over. Maybe after the Crime Lord of No Crime and Reva I'm realising that not even TV SW is that good...
I have to say that when I said the Bad Batch had the Giligan's Island problem, I didn't think the writers were going to be so on the nose about it.
But wow.
Really?
I mean... Really?
And they compounded the on the nose metaphor part with the preposterously contrived coincidence that crisis befalls paradise as soon as the main cast shows up.
At this point if Hunter and crew aren't actively questioning if they are their own cosmic force of ill-fate who cause things to go wrong through their mere presence, they're not paying attention.
That or someone in the writer's room is screaming for help and just being cheeky about what they know the problem is XD
Catching up on Mandalorian. First two episodes were solid. 3rd wasn't bad, but why do I get this annoying feeling that it was a pilot episode for another show? It be really nice if they'd stop that. It was bizarre enough when the last three episodes of Boba Fett were basically Mandalorian episodes. Are we now going to have random pilot episodes in Mandalorian too?
Why can't things just be their own things? This is the bloody problem >.<
And the sad thing is it wasn't a bad pilot episode. Ex-Imperial seeks redemption, breaks the rules, gets stabbed in the back? feth I'm down for it. Except now I'm kind of annoyed. They put together a nice appetizer and spoiled it by tossing it onto the main course I wanted. It's still nice but my enjoyment of both things is being spoiled.
I really wanna know what the big dude is thinking as he stares at Mando. Stupid helmet policy preventing me from seeing his facial expressions at least.
I got the impression of seething rage and that he's looking at Bo-Katarn...
Mando just had his hierloom which acquired fairly through Mandolore creed, and he hates him..
Bo-katarns clan had what should of been his clans planet and acquired it through *shudders* democracy not creed...
Now she's a member of his new clan and probably going to be on equal footing to him from the go.
Yeah, he's going to be a problem later, unless he can work past his family issues and grow as a person (haha)
His name is Paz Vizsla, a descendent of the formerly (?) noble house of Vizsla. Which spawned Tarre Vizsla, Jedi and Manda’lor, creator of the Dark Saber.
Clone Wars and Rebels contains a bunch of episodes involving that Clan and are well worth a watch.
Feels like I'm more patient with Bad Batch than most, but even for me the tangent of the latest episode is a little too far removed from my best guess at this season's point.
Plus, as has already been duly mentioned, the sheer coincidence of it...
AduroT wrote: I do not remember this chick at all. Did the doctor wrong her in particular in some way or is this some kind of revenge for Gideon thing? The moment we saw the setting gauge I knew what was going to happen.
You really need to learn to pay attention to hot girls in Imperial uniforms. She's Gideon's comms officer in the previous season.
Gideon has his important cloning project in the works and the doc proved that he's willing to work for the New Republic, even if its current policy is not to allow cloning research. If whatever Gideon is planning comes to light and the Republic figures they need to do something about it, Doc Pershing is their go to expert. Gideon can't take that risk, so his undercover agent lobotomizes him. It's not personal. She's just doing her job.
AduroT wrote: I really wanna know what the big dude is thinking as he stares at Mando. Stupid helmet policy preventing me from seeing his facial expressions at least.
In addition to what's been said about him and Bo-Katan, he wasn't happy that Din worked for Imperials. He wasn't happy to lose the duel for the Darksaber to Din. He wasn't happy to find he got beat by an apostate of all things.
There's a lot of lingering resentment, even if by creed everything is sunshine and lollipops again.
LordofHats wrote: Catching up on Mandalorian. First two episodes were solid. 3rd wasn't bad, but why do I get this annoying feeling that it was a pilot episode for another show? It be really nice if they'd stop that. It was bizarre enough when the last three episodes of Boba Fett were basically Mandalorian episodes. Are we now going to have random pilot episodes in Mandalorian too?
Why can't things just be their own things? This is the bloody problem >.<
And the sad thing is it wasn't a bad pilot episode. Ex-Imperial seeks redemption, breaks the rules, gets stabbed in the back? feth I'm down for it. Except now I'm kind of annoyed. They put together a nice appetizer and spoiled it by tossing it onto the main course I wanted. It's still nice but my enjoyment of both things is being spoiled.
I'm inclined to agree it feels jarring. I say that as someone who's been waiting for a good look at thee New Republic, so I can't even complain about what was actually there. It just doesn't feel particularly well integrated.
I don't think it's a pilot, though. Gideon was the main antagonist in the previous seasons. This episode is about one of Gideon's top scientists and one of his agents, and we get to hear the rumor that Gideon didn't make it to his tribunal for one reason or another. Plus the unexpected TIE attack. I'm fairly confident that this sets up more Imperial Remnant shenanigans with Gideon at the helm as season three's main plot.
Not impressed with episode 3 of Mando. It's not that it wasn't decent, just that it seems completely out of place. The slow pacing of the first 2 episodes, to resolve Din's redemption quest in the way we knew it would be resolved, was annoying, and this just adds to that. It didn't help that it involved two returning characters who had very small parts in the show up to now, leaving me wondering if I'd missed something important about their relevance.
I'm sure the purpose of this weird time-out will become clear later in the season as the various plots come together, but I'm not convinced the decision to place it where they did in the running order was a good one.
For the Mandalorian, I am very pleased with how the season is going so far. I expected the quest to the mines of Mandalor to basically take the entire season, but was suprised that it happened very early on to set out the stage for the more interesting, in my opinion, story of the re-unification of Mandalorians which started with Bo-Katan's conversion. It also sets up nicely the return of Gideon and Thrawn as the main opposition for the season finaly.
As for the Bad Batch, I must say this show is at its best when it follows Crossair. This episode almost felt like an end of story episode. Seriously, a "and they lived happily ever after" mention at the end of the episode would have been on point. I suppose there will be a last large conflict with Sid and the Empire before they can retire on Pagu.
New Republic scenes are clearly a primer, for something. Maybe a follow on show, maybe a future plot line.
The Interceptors were noted to be more than you might expect for an Imperial Remnant Warlord. And I’m far from convinced Dr Pershing’s “friend” is on the side of good. Rather I suspect she’s zapped Pershing’s brain to preserve something, some intelligence as to what’s going on out there a secret. Maybe even the plan to resurrect Palpatine.
I wouldn't look at Bo Katan getting into the Children of the Watch as her accepting the "old ways" but more as her ruthless political side possibly coming out again. With the Watch, she has a chance to reclaim the throne of Mandalore with a core of devout and hardy warriors at her back, if she can attain status in some way.
Honestly, all I hope for is 1) no more resurrections of Palpatine can we place get that corpse out of this franchise and 2) how many times does Moff Gideon have to be beaten before the story moves the feth on?
Not casting judgment now cause I guess it could be a bunch of things we'll find out, but Palpatine coming back from the dead is the most annoying dead horse in the Star Wars franchise and you'd think after Rise of Skywalker's lambasting for it the people behind these projects know it was a cliche 20 years ago.
With Gideon it's kind of the same problem. Mando beat him in season 1 and utterly defeated him in season 2 (with help) and I feel like the like of a direction is a big part of why Season 3 (and Bad Batch for that matter) feel aimless and dull at times.
I'd like to hope the Gideon stuff is a red herring and it's not him at all. With the comms officer, is she loyal to Gideon or the Empire? With the other Imperial remnant officers we've seen, it's all been about the wider cause with Gideon just being the current CO. What if the bit about Gideon being put in a mind flayer is the truth?
One can hope.
The best twist with the comm officer would be that she's rising through the ranks of the New Republic the same way she did with the empire (manipulation and backstabbing) IMO XD
That would be a twist, but I also feel like they're driving the knife in again on making the New Republic such a pile of gak you wonder why anyone bothered fighting the Empire in the first place or bothers fighting the remnant.
That was a problem in the sequel trilogy and I can't say it's an angle I'm eager to see more of.
LordofHats wrote: The best twist with the comm officer would be that she's rising through the ranks of the New Republic the same way she did with the empire (manipulation and backstabbing) IMO XD
That would be a twist, but I also feel like they're driving the knife in again on making the New Republic such a pile of gak you wonder why anyone bothered fighting the Empire in the first place or bothers fighting the remnant.
That was a problem in the sequel trilogy and I can't say it's an angle I'm eager to see more of.
I kind of see The New Republic as the only way forward. Nobody is required to be a member, sort of settling scars left by the last two civil wars. You want in, you follow the rules. You don’t, that’s cool and we’ll respect your choice.
I’ll need to go re-read Bloodlines too, as that involved similar shenanigans Building toward the First Order.
I had a different interpretation of the Dr and Comms officer relationship.
Spoiler:
Gideon is not trying to stop the Republic having a means of intelligence on cloning, he is using means that won't draw absolute suspicion (such as assassinating the doctor) to reduce the amount of people in the galaxy that actually know about the cloning project, and thus the main reason for it... I'd be surprised at this point if it is not linked to Palpatine.
Simple case of silencing all of the known witnesses/people who know the truth. Clean up crew.
LordofHats wrote: The best twist with the comm officer would be that she's rising through the ranks of the New Republic the same way she did with the empire (manipulation and backstabbing) IMO XD
That would be a twist, but I also feel like they're driving the knife in again on making the New Republic such a pile of gak you wonder why anyone bothered fighting the Empire in the first place or bothers fighting the remnant.
That was a problem in the sequel trilogy and I can't say it's an angle I'm eager to see more of.
Same. The whole set up is pretty weird, but having the nobles yak about how its all the same regardless of who rules is a bit... daft. (especially when the same nobles are admitting they barely had enough power to avoid military draft)
Course I have several questions about the whole set up and re-entry program.
He gives Ted Talks to the rich and famous about cloning research (which... the segue from 'life-saving spare organs' to 'hybridized life forms' was a bit of a jump)
But he lives in basic apartments, does basic data entry/data analysis, and everyone in the program lives together without overt supervision and are referred to by a completely alienating 3 digit alphanumeric designation. This does not seem useful for 're-entry.' This seems like asking for trouble.
Also, also. The designations are 1 letter followed by 2 numbers? uh... That's a trivial amount of people even if we're talking modern countries, about 2600 or so. On a galactic scale, that's nothing. Insufficient thought went into this worldbuilding.
From a narrative perspective, the episode also starts exciting and almost frantic bridge to the next development, and then just plows into the ground. The pacing is shot to hell.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I had a different interpretation of the Dr and Comms officer relationship.
Spoiler:
Gideon is not trying to stop the Republic having a means of intelligence on cloning, he is using means that won't draw absolute suspicion (such as assassinating the doctor) to reduce the amount of people in the galaxy that actually know about the cloning project, and thus the main reason for it... I'd be surprised at this point if it is not linked to Palpatine.
Simple case of silencing all of the known witnesses/people who know the truth. Clean up crew.
Or that, potentially, whomever he’s working for/with has plans for their own Clone army,
So I was one of the vocal about how pointless Andor was before it came out and after it came out and wrapped that Andor is the single best thing Starwars has made. It managed to just give us a really good story with really good stuff all around. It wasn't going back to tell a prequel about how [insert character] got their [insert stuff]. It was a character driven narrative with purpose.
I like the general vibe of the new season of Mando so far. But it falls a bit flat because we know what they COULD be doing with Andor and instead we are getting... this.
Maybe that will end up being great. Probably it will be... fine.
Starwars has finally shown us how great a story it could tell and now they need to rise back to that level.
Honestly part of the issue with Mando season 3 is a sense of aimlessness.
I thought the season would be about getting his redemption but he wrapped that up in two episodes.
I thought he was going to help restore IG-88. Except he seemed to forget about that.
I thought maybe he'd help deal with some pirates but he flew away.
There's like a bunch of plot points being set up but there's no sense of direction or sense to how they're being laid out.
The stuff with Grogu is great and Bo-Katan isn't being a meanie like she could have been, but it be nice to have an idea where we're going rather than no idea at all.
I thought he was going to help restore IG-88. Except he seemed to forget about that.
I honestly don't know why they bothered to set that up. Just... nothing about that makes sense.
Its the only droid he trusts. Except he didn't, and his attempt to fix it immediately made it go berserk (which makes it completely untrustworthy). Even if he had, he's stuck with the tiny fighter now, so he couldn't have taken the IG droid anywhere, anyway.
But he needs a completely reliable droid, so he goes to exactly one person for the part he needs, then gives up and takes the most visibly cowardly and unreliable droid he can find.
Which... doesn't really work out, but it is an astromech, so by pure coincidence and no intent of his, it can fly his fighter back to recruit Bo after she's told him to go feth himself and is seemingly going out to fight him when his fighter lands again.
Was that the pay off for that bizarrely complicated set up? Just to have something that can fly the ship for that one scene, because the writers are intent on keeping baby Yoda at the level of a well trained pet?
He didn't need any droids to 'test the air,' presumably his ship has some atmospheric detection, and he could have 'sealed up his helmet' and taken the SW equivalent of a geiger counter into the cave, since that's basically what he ended up doing anyway, as he had to go fetch the droid back.
The writing is just really murky with a lot of tail-chasing. Presumably he and Bo are going to lead the cult against a returned Moff Gideon, but its going to screw around a lot before we get to that.
Which... doesn't really work out, but it is an astromech, so by pure coincidence and no intent of his, it can fly his fighter back to recruit Bo after she's told him to go feth himself and is seemingly going out to fight him when his fighter lands again.
Also this shows off the absolutely insane travel times of bad starwars. Mother fether had to spend who knows how long flying from Bo's citadel to Mandalore. Gets captured by cyborg monster that starts harvesting his blood. Grogu escapes, makes it into the ship, flys to Bo. A droid has to download it's logs and Bo has to review them. Get her own ship prepped, fly BACK, and then get led down into the ruins and find Mando... not bleed dry and dead already? WTF?
You see the hyperspace whales in episode 2, so they could be building Thrawn's return to the franchise + setting up a damn shadow pilot for Ahsoka's show.
Lord Damocles wrote: It sure is convenient that nobody else ever bothered to investigate Mandalore and the incredibly valuable bescar mines there.
We don’t really know when the purge occurred. It’s some time between 5BBY when Rebels’ story began, and given the Imperial Forces involved, 4ABY, when Palpatine was killed over Endor.
Mando is set in 9ABY.
Also, Bo Katan clearly didn’t believe the myth that Mandalore was cursed. But the Mandalorian people and culture was shattered having had a pretty vicious civil war prior to The Great Purge. I don’t think 5-10 years is that long for a shattered people to avoid the marker of their most significant defeat. Especially given until Palpatine’s demise, they’d need to overcome any Imperial garrison, fleet based or not.
You can narrow that down by another four years to 1BBY. Mandalore is fine at the beginning of Rebels season four.
Lord Damocles wrote: It sure is convenient that nobody else ever bothered to investigate Mandalore and the incredibly valuable bescar mines there.
It's more that no one who went there came back, or whoever came back didn't tell. What's convenient about this is that Din found the one guy who went there, came back, ran his mouth and brought a souvenir.
Even then that's not among the more questionable things the writers came up with.
It may simply be no Mandalorian survived a visit in the early days - probably due to some kind of Imperial Fleet presence. Given Din’s sect appear traditionalist to the point of superstition, them deciding that’s because of a curse does make sense.
Bo Katan likely never returned because she screwed up so badly.
Sure. The cult does cult things and Bo does guilt things.
But... the rest of the system is plainly still occupied, the Empire has a tendency to exploit/strip mine worlds and there are 10000 illicit groups with droids that do shady things in the SW universe.
The idea that nobody did nothing with the remains of a legendary planet, renowned galaxy wide for its super metal, is absurd.
The only information we're given is that Mandalore was destroyed by the Empire, the mines along with it. The surface got glassed, the cities were destroyed, and the magnetic field of the planet was disrupted.
The Empire had also already funneled considerable resources into trying to make Mandalore a useful planet and the Purge was their final message to its people.
By the time Din Djarin goes back, it's at least 9ABY (when Gideon attacks Nevarro) possibly 10ABY. A considerable time has passed since the Purge and the only thing anyone remembers is that the planet is cursed. Obviously explorers and adventurous types have started going to the ruins to try and make some bank off of them by the time Mando S3 happens. It's not that hard to believe.
Gert wrote: The only information we're given is that Mandalore was destroyed by the Empire, the mines along with it. The surface got glassed, the cities were destroyed, and the magnetic field of the planet was disrupted.
The Empire had also already funneled considerable resources into trying to make Mandalore a useful planet and the Purge was their final message to its people.
By the time Din Djarin goes back, it's at least 9ABY (when Gideon attacks Nevarro) possibly 10ABY. A considerable time has passed since the Purge and the only thing anyone remembers is that the planet is cursed. Obviously explorers and adventurous types have started going to the ruins to try and make some bank off of them by the time Mando S3 happens. It's not that hard to believe.
That anyone would believe in a 'curse' after ~10 years is definitely hard to believe. A decade is not 'a considerable time.' They know the Empire glassed it. A poke in the system will show they haven't been guarding it, so scavengers would flock to the ruins of this bizarrely powerful independent planet, the sole (somehow) source of a legendary metal..
A quick check by anyone would show the planet isn't poisoned (and even if it is, there are droids or workers the underworld types don't care about). People would be looting that planet night and day from the moment it was clear there wasn't an Imperial presence in system.
There was still a Mandalorian presence though. Just because their homeworld got glassed doesn't mean people still don't fear their reputation. I'm not saying there's going to be no interest, cos that's obviously not true given the dude hanging out in the cave hoarding Mando armour, just not waves upon waves of treasure hunters.
bbb wrote: Well, I'm not sure what the point of that was, by my kid kept asking, "When is the Mandalorian coming back?" during the whole New Republic bit.
New Republic seem like dicks. Where's Cassie when you need her?
Also, how did they get so many Mandalorian cult members after they got wiped out season 1 and there were only 2 in BoBF?
Apparently they have multiple 'coverts' that they hide in and land ostentatious fighter craft immediately outside, especially when suddenly on the run from hostile forces that destroyed them before. Which you know, is weird, because the Ringworld hideout looked actually effective for hiding.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Seems Mando season three is about as directionless as the Sequel Trilogy and Marvel Phase 4.
To be fair, this is only the third episode. It just feels directionless because it looked like it was setting up a season-long redemption arc then decided that would only take a good 30-40 minutes. But they kept all the setup for it despite abandoning it mid-shoot, after what must have been a bloodbath in writers' room.
Its not exactly unprecedented in this show. Remember how vitally important it was to take his bounty/pet/child/protege/pet back to 'its kind' was? And that lasted maybe a couple weeks in-universe before being scrapped and reversed?
The real trick is whether or not the pirate subplot is going to tie into the return of Moff Gideon or be an irrelevant multi-episode distraction from that. Will Bo-Katan be the heroic sacrifice (or fridged) so Mando gets to be the Great Leader and lead the cult to True Freedom on the back of a passing asteroid? Are they going to resettle on Mandalore, be awed by the Mythobeastie, and eat well on roasted grimlocks in the ruins of their former civilization? So much mystery and potential here.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Seems Mando season three is about as directionless as the Sequel Trilogy and Marvel Phase 4.
At this point and time, yeah. Unfortunately, I think the nostalgia memberberries moments of S2 was a red flag that they really didn't know where they were going with this, especially since a lot of Mando's relationship with Grogu got resolved so quickly in Book of Boba. The refreshing part of S1 was that it felt like it was its own separate thing within the larger SW mythos, in a largely unexplored period between the OT and sequels. Now that it's crossed SW street with so many major character cameos, it's lost its way of Mando really having a purpose besides doing cult things that happen to move the plot forwards.
Just an aside because I rewatched Mando S1 and feel like it makes a good comparison to Bad Batch S2 and why S2 just isn't very good.
In Mando S1, Mando often ended up not getting what he wanted. But 'failure' was rarely the right word. Most of the time he managed to achieve something, whether it be get paid or keep Grogu safe. It made not getting what he really wanted a much more mundane sort of 'gak happens' rather than 'we came to do X but the cosmos decided we're not allowed to win.'
It helps that Mando season 1 on ran 8 episodes, so it didn't really repeat the pattern for 24 different mini-stories that all play out the exact same way.
Voss wrote: Remember how vitally important it was to take his bounty/pet/child/protege/pet back to 'its kind' was?
It's kind was "other Jedi". That never went away.
Until Mando went back for it (in Boba, naturally, because that's where failure lives, and is apparently contagious). Then it did go away, because it was presented as an ultimatum to Grogu (despite the immense questions about Grogu's agency and ability to understand complex concepts like this one): either choose the lightsaber and stay, or choose the mithril shirt and leave. That he learned how to levitate frogs and hop-pop was... useful (especially to the puppeteers and animators) , but the show presents him as a Mandalorian-in-training now, and has strongly suggested through Luke that its either one or the other (legendary sword-smiths being an exception, apparently).
Now sure, Luke could be carrying on the fine traditions of the Jedi Order and just blatantly lying to students, but the choice is presented as a clear dichotomy.
Though additionally, the creepy implications of 'one's own kind' referring to being members of religious orders is something I really don't want to address. Boo at them for framing the story this way.
Now sure, Luke could be carrying on the fine traditions of the Jedi Order and just blatantly lying to students, but the choice is presented as a clear dichotomy.
Luckily, we know that Luke would never choose friends/family over the Jedi...
It wasn’t like, a bad episode, but I’m just going to be annoyed because what predator travels that far for food, doesn’t kill it, and stores it alive for that long, especially when it’s got kids to feed. Not to mention how long they apparently lived inside that things gullet.
1. If they use their jet packs, they'll alert the beast. 2. They have to go on foot after a while, as the ship will alert the beast. 3. The beast's lair is at the highest tower.
And now, because I'm sure some of you missed it:
1. If they use their jet packs, they'll alert the beast. 2. They have to go on foot after a while, as the ship will alert the beast. 3. The beast's lair is at the highest tower.
Holy fething God what has happened to the writing on this show? I swear they said the same thing three times in slightly different ways, to people who already knew the information, after they went after a creature that grabs prey for its young, but... doesn't kill it for over a day? WTF?
Meanwhile, Jedi Jar Jar gave us the most interesting bit of the episode (and itself nothing to do with the Mandalorian) and we only get part of that story. No wonder this show is tanking...
Meanwhile, in Bad Batch, Disney infects everything, as all the good guys do nothing but stun the bad guys... they're not even fellow Clones this time with the "we can't hurt our brothers!" excuse. They're regular Stormtroopers!
And no odds on scientist lady turning against the Empire. That's basically a given now.
I liked that Crosshair stunned the scientist, but shot dead the troopers. Also scientist lady is definitely somehow connected to Omega. She just sounds too much like her. It’ll be our answer to why this other most pure version of Jango’s dna came out female and nothing like the other clones.
Definitely feeling that Mando has lost its way this season. After the first two episodes wrapped up the redemption quest after a bizarre set of pointless sidequests, we're now left with 2 plodding episodes that seem to just be spinning their wheels. The writing has taken a nosedive with the clunky exposition, as pointed out by HBMC, and I feel that the forward motion the show was always pretty good at maintaining has simply drained away.
I wonder if this is partly down to the way the episodes are structured. Instead of having strong A and B stories taking us through the episode, each one tends to concentrate on a single story. Even when we see something else, like with Grogu's flashback, it's all handled in one chunk before sending us back to the central plot for the episode. I feel like they could easily have combined the plots from the last two episodes into a 2-episode arc and kept things more exciting as a result. I'm assuming episode 3 actually served a narrative purpose for this season, which may not even be the case, given how much it screamed "pilot episode" to me.
Also, minor niggle, could the Mandolorians not set up base camp somewhere a little less dangerous? Like, the middle of a minefield, maybe? In the space of 4 episodes (or 3, really) they've been attacked by a giant crocodile/turtle thing and had a Foundling snatched by some giant flying dinosaur. Apparently this happens often enough that they know all about its feeding patterns and hunting behaviour.
Why doesn’t Grogu speak do we suppose? He seems to understand what is spoken to him well enough, and Ahsoka was able to read his thoughts and have a conversation with him and tell Mando his name, but he doesn’t vocalize these thoughts. Is his species really so slow to develop physically that at fifty years old he’s still just got the body of a helpless (if not for the force) baby?
PTSD and the likely lack of any sort of real interaction before bonding with Din Djarin. If a child isn't given an environment to actually grow properly it won't.
Also good to see Bo Katan putting her people and culture before herself. As a one time and perhaps would-be again Leader, those are qualities to admire. No grand standing. No “listen up you backward bantha pudu”. Just using the resources she has and coming up with a solid plan.
Genuinely surprised at no losses amongst Ensigns Anonymous A-D (A-C?).
Grogu’s flashback was also rather good fun.
This feels like the season of Mandalorian lore and culture. I’m here for it!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Bad Batch.
Yeah if this could be it’s base level of quality that’d be lovely. Said it before and I’ll say it again, this season has had more filler than a sandwich even Scooby Doo would consider daunting.
But when it’s been good? It’s been so good.
Less waffle. More…I dunno. Maple Syrup? I’m not really one for waffles (though I always eat what others cook for me, Mumsy Grotsnik raised me that way).
AduroT wrote: It wasn’t like, a bad episode, but I’m just going to be annoyed because what predator travels that far for food, doesn’t kill it, and stores it alive for that long, especially when it’s got kids to feed. Not to mention how long they apparently lived inside that things gullet.
Is birb. Does weird.
Slipspace wrote: Definitely feeling that Mando has lost its way this season. After the first two episodes wrapped up the redemption quest after a bizarre set of pointless sidequests, we're now left with 2 plodding episodes that seem to just be spinning their wheels. The writing has taken a nosedive with the clunky exposition, as pointed out by HBMC, and I feel that the forward motion the show was always pretty good at maintaining has simply drained away.
This gives me the idea that The Book of Boba Fett But Also His Pal Din screwed with what they originally had in mind for The Mandalorian. Which is to say I could see getting kicked out of the covert and doing the redemption quest as one season and Bo-Katan versus more Imperials to restore Mandalore being another season. Then something happened and the former got partially folded into Book of Boba, then wrapped up quickly so as to have the rest of season three cover what would have otherwise been season four.
Slipspace wrote: Also, minor niggle, could the Mandolorians not set up base camp somewhere a little less dangerous? Like, the middle of a minefield, maybe? In the space of 4 episodes (or 3, really) they've been attacked by a giant crocodile/turtle thing and had a Foundling snatched by some giant flying dinosaur. Apparently this happens often enough that they know all about its feeding patterns and hunting behaviour.
I mean, that was basically what I thought after the first two minutes of the season...
One might also call it World Building, and character building.
Not everyone is a nerd. Many will be casual watchers. Who is Bo Katan? They’re not gonna watch Clone Wars or Rebels to find out. So Mando is giving us a crash course in culture and character.
It’s clearly building toward something. Possibly even Bo Katan winning over the Covert, challenging Din for the Dark Saber and becoming The Mandalore.
Very good albeit very short Mandalorian episode this week. I expected we would get a "life in the covert" episode that would showcase the Mandalorian traditional lifestyle. I did not expect to have the backstory of Grogu too and it was a nice bonus. I was wondering to whom Bo-Katan would speak about the Mythosaur first and what would be their reaction to it. I was amazed at the quality of the aerial battle for it was technically very challenging. The special effects were great.
As for the few points that were raised. Yes, birds and the like do store food sometimes for entire weeks and some do carry live or injured food to feed their young. The behavior of the beast is thus not exactly surprising. The only surprising thing is how dry Ragnar was when he was spitted out. As to why the Mandalorians would have installed themselves in such a dangerous place, well I suppose this has to do with the fact they are a crazy warrior society who basically require danger and combat to function properly. I wonder how they got there though as they don't seem to have ships on hand beside that of Bo and Din. Some might have been there all along while others might have hitch a ride, but I'm curious to see if they have other ships.
Meh. It was an okay episode. The best part honestly was seeing Mando be a proud dad and the Armorer's interactions with Grogu.
The weakness is that it's a filler episode behind a filler episode with still no sense of what the show is really doing anymore. The entire kidnapped kid plot felt like little more than an excuse to get some stuff taken care of on the side because they had ground to cover but it wasn't enough for a full episode so they just threw something lazy together to pad out the time.
I'm not as hard on it as some I guess, but especially after rewatching Season 1, I miss what the show was like when it was newer and a bit bolder, and everything wasn't some reference/connection to some other thing.
EDIT: And I'd note that while I love how this show doesn't have everyone take off their helmet at every opportunity like some things Disney makes, the absolute insanity of how they never ever ever take it off where others can see is kind of being highlighted in its absurdity. Don't show your face to an enemy? Okay. Don't let an enemy take your helmet off? Okay. Be a faceless badass who is known more for what you are than who you are? Yeah I can see that.
"Okay guys time to eat, everyone spread out in a dozen different directions all alone and we'll meet back in 20!" kind of shows how utterly ridiculous this tradition is from a practical standpoint and really highlights the irrational part of being religious zealots :/ Like, no wonder more modern Mandalorians dumped this cultural concrete. It's just silly and the show doesn't do itself huge favors highlighting it in this way.
Is it? Some exposition from the Armourer an repetitive exposition combined with nonsensical action and half a flashback?
We're halfway through the season and it still hasn't found a plot. We spent 40+ minutes last week focusing on a character who has had maybe 6 lines in 2 seasons up until that point.
This, just spending time with the mandalorians is welcome, learning their ways, or as they would put it THE WAY.
The show looks amazing, and its obviously building towards Bo Katan taking over as their leader, she is going to ride the mythosaur. We don't need to rush there, sometimes its about the journey.
Bad batch on the other hand reminds me of the worst of the clone wars, theres been so much of the plot / side characters that I just don't care about.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We're halfway through the season and it still hasn't found a plot. We spent 40+ minutes last week focusing on a character who has had maybe 6 lines in 2 seasons up until that point.
The plot seems to me very clear. It's the story of re-unification of the Mandalorian in a period of crisis spurred by the return of their old nemesis and, potentially, his boss. To get there though, since we are following those events through the involvement of Grogu and Din, we have to get through the redeeming of Din with his tribe which is is own personal re-unification, Bo-Katan had hers at the same time and all the while, in each episode so far, we had a little of Grogu learning to be Mandalorian from learning how to chart stars and navigate the galaxy in episode 1, getting to Bo-Katan and travelling through the Mandalorian mines in episode 2, passing by his almost first words in episode 3 (which was mainly about foreshadowing the villains and showing how weak and suspicious the New Repubic is thus setting the scene for it being completely unable and unwilling to help the Outer Rim worlds from danger though frankly I think that specific part could have been kept for later in the season and it would not have changed much). I suspect episode 5 or maybe 6 will drag back our heroes to Navarro due to the pirates causing problems and from there the remnants of the Empire show up in force with the last two episodes will be about dealing with them, probably with the final battle on Mandalore itself.
It's not because there hasn't been a clear and very well defined continuous quest that was defined that there is no plot. There definitely is a story there with a bunch of character growing and encountering challenges that confronts them to their weaknesses and reinforce what they have learned (especially of the later so far though it seems to me we are setting up Grogu to face his trauma of the destruction of the Jedi so I expect the covert to suffer heavy casualties again when the villains show up). Each episode flows to the next rather naturally. My main critique so far is that while Grogu and Bo-Katan are passing through a lot of stuff right now, Din has it pretty easy. His main personal goals were rather easily achieved and he is good in his new role as official dad in a galaxy where fathers and father figures have a bad tendency to be terrible. I think he will face bigger issues in the second half of the season as he will be thrown or expected to be a leader since there is problems and he is the wielder of the darksaber.
No that's what we assuming the plot is, based on inference. But that's not what's been presented. Most of what you've described is set up for a plot, but not the plot that's actually happening.
Having re-looked at the trailer, what it appears to really be about is the Mandos going back to Novaro to free it from pirate control.
Y'know, the pirates they introduced in episode 1 and then did nothing with since?
H.B.M.C. wrote: No that's what we assuming the plot is, based on inference. But that's not what's been presented.
I disagree. We have clearly been presented with very clear themes and character development. I mean in four episodes so far we have seen Din searching to and then succeeding in re-integrating the Children of the Watch. We have seen Bo-Katan doing the same and we have seen Grogu learning to be a Mandalorian. This is what is happening the show so far. Of course there has been an episode dedicated to villains filled with foreshadowing and the main characters all lamenting in their own ways the fate of the Mandalorian people as "scattered and lost". Yeah, that's what's been presented to us and I would be greatly surprised if suddenly the show pivoted to a different theme like the New Republic issues with independent Outer Rim worlds like Navarro and the Mandalorian territory.
This, just spending time with the mandalorians is welcome, learning their ways, or as they would put it THE WAY.
The show looks amazing, and its obviously building towards Bo Katan taking over as their leader, she is going to ride the mythosaur. We don't need to rush there, sometimes its about the journey.
Bad batch on the other hand reminds me of the worst of the clone wars, theres been so much of the plot / side characters that I just don't care about.
Bad Batch has been super frustrating this season. As said a lot of side guff of basically no consequence. Now a bad show is a bad show and I can just move myself on.
But when it’s been good it’s been excellent. That is what I find frustrating. That’s what gets on my pip. Because it shows it’s sheer potential.
This, just spending time with the mandalorians is welcome, learning their ways, or as they would put it THE WAY.
The show looks amazing, and its obviously building towards Bo Katan taking over as their leader, she is going to ride the mythosaur. We don't need to rush there, sometimes its about the journey.
Reading this, now I'm curious if you feel the same about the Tusken part of Book of Boba.
That does not seem to have been well received (I liked it for what it's worth), but it's in effect the exact thing we're seeing in Mando. A lot of front-loaded culture exposition that takes up an inordinate amount of time which is not used to set up the main conflict of the show/season as narrative convention would suggest.
Book of Boba Fett wasn’t Book of Tusken. The Madalorian started out as the tale of a single Mando, and has now expanded to his overall culture.
And hey, I liked The Book of Boba Fett. I understand the criticism, and to some extent agree on certain areas, but I feel some criticism has been thoroughly overly egged into a vile internet custard where Not Liking It has become the Hip Thing for some.
But The Mandalorian? We’re still exploring Din’s world. We’re starting to see the first glimmers of a once great culture getting itself back together. Reforged. Reunified. Possibly.
As for Bo Katan’s plan in the latest chapter? If they didn’t offer exposition, people would moan “the thing they didn’t need to explain” wasn’t explained an am therefore the polt hole. Not the same people like. But just keep in mind they can’t please everyone.
I wouldn’t really say they’re reunifying the Mandolorians yet. They’ve got one possible convert. Bo hasn’t even taken their creed yet, merely declined to remove her helmet.
Bo Katan is a proven leader. She followed Dinosaur Thing. Sussed out its nest. Suggested a plan. All without grandstanding or “everyone am listen to me, I are important”.
It could all go horribly, hideously wrong. Particularly if she decides to just usurp command rather than be, well I dunno, do they vote? Promote? Time will tell.
But the teaser has shown her ship being used to drop in the other Mandalorians, so more cooperation to come.
Perhaps she’s just using them for her own ends, having been abandoned by her followers. Maybe she’s being genuinely altruistic, having found Community and support.
AduroT wrote: I wouldn’t really say they’re reunifying the Mandolorians yet. They’ve got one possible convert. Bo hasn’t even taken their creed yet, merely declined to remove her helmet.
Technically, in episode 2, she mentions she did took the creed when she was a child in an elaborated ceremonial since she was a princess. Of course, at that point, this was mostly for show and they didn't took the creed to the letter a bit like most people do with their religion these days. She even hints that her sister Satine might have made a big show of not taking the creed or at the very least embarassing their father in the process since she explicitly mention that she acquitted herself of that duty in a way that made her father proud (and we already know her sister was basically as anti-creed as one can be). Bo-Katan doesn't need to take the creed again, she already did. She needed to be redeemed by bathing in the living waters and she did and since she did not remove her helmet since and decided to join the covert, she's now a Mandalorian in good standing in the eyes of the Children of the Watch.
As for reunifying the Mandalorians, I bet that before the end of this season and certainly in the penultimate one (I think there is supposed to be a fourth and last season of the show). They will require or meet other Mandalorians. I would not be surprised if amongst the pirates there will be a Mandalorian or two as they already mentionned two or three times that Mandalorians have scattered and work as mercenaries a bit everywhere.
I feel like we wouldn't have to argue about where Mandalorian Season 3 is going, or if it's going anywhere at all, if the plot was a bit more logically crafted.
Fix IG-88... but nope.
Deal with pirates... but nope.
Redeem self, that was easy!
Mysterious warlord mystery... but nope
Big city planet big city life... Maybe? (this easily could have been a B-plot spanning the season and probably would have come off better... If there's a point to it at all)
We must save that guy's family!
Yeah, I just don't see it. I mean, it'll probably be more clear after but right now the show feels pretty rudderless. Like it's just doggy paddling in a mellow stream.
Really it's the same issue Bad Batch season 2 started having around this same time in its release. I've never been that invested in Bad Batch. It's a thing to watch, but I liked Mandalorian so I'm disappointed.
Yeah good point: If we knew where the story was going or what it was about we wouldn't need to argue about where the story was going or what it was about.
I'm going to go and watch Picard. Now that's a show in its 3rd season turning it around completely from crap to great. Seems Trek and Wars swapped this year.
Now she's a member of his new clan and probably going to be on equal footing to him from the go.
Yeah, he's going to be a problem later, unless he can work past his family issues and grow as a person (haha)
Happy to be proved wrong about Visla (so far).
He's getting a bit of depth other than moody big guy, we can add some critical thinking and loving father to the list.
On the bright side if there's one thing Mandalorians are good at, it's finding a reason to fight each other.
I like to imagine Bo-Katan sees her ambitions through and has a ritual fight with Din for the Darksaber, actually winning it legitimately only for Viszla to doubt her character based on the last time she ruled and stir up trouble over it.
I think it would tie in nicely with his losing the duel with Din if he didn't outright challenge Bo-Katan for leadership but tried something underhanded instead to nudge things in his favor and make absolutely sure this time the Darksaber ends up in the right hands (his, that is).
Quite liked the latest episode. The side quest was side questy, but the meat of the episode was strong and humanized the Watch a bit which was nice. Mostly what it made me realize was that the worst part of the last episode was its hour runtime. 30 minutes is a lot more tolerable for side quests.
Bad Batch was pretty solid too now that it seems to be getting somewhere.
Geifer wrote: On the bright side if there's one thing Mandalorians are good at, it's finding a reason to fight each other.
I like to imagine Bo-Katan sees her ambitions through and has a ritual fight with Din for the Darksaber, actually winning it legitimately only for Viszla to doubt her character based on the last time she ruled and stir up trouble over it.
I think it would tie in nicely with his losing the duel with Din if he didn't outright challenge Bo-Katan for leadership but tried something underhanded instead to nudge things in his favor and make absolutely sure this time the Darksaber ends up in the right hands (his, that is).
It could be that Din becomes The Mandalore, and everyone accepts that.
Unlike Bo Katan and Paz, he’s Mandalorian through and through, but not from a Noble House type thing. He doesn’t have the personal or lineage baggage the other two do. And not only did he claim the Dark Saber in honourable combat? But he did so without the reason for the combat being possession of the Dark Saber and all that entails. Neither Bo Katan or Paz can say the same.
He’s also shown to be a determined and resourceful individual, but not too proud to call on help when it’s required. That I feel is something any Mandalorian worth their salt can genuinely respect and admire, if not actively aspire to become.
Now she's a member of his new clan and probably going to be on equal footing to him from the go.
Yeah, he's going to be a problem later, unless he can work past his family issues and grow as a person (haha)
Happy to be proved wrong about Visla (so far).
He's getting a bit of depth other than moody big guy, we can add some critical thinking and loving father to the list.
He’s also seeing his preconceived notions challenged, by both Din and Bo Katan, as the pair of them came to his aid without being asked. That can be a compelling reason to swallow pride and reassess your opinions.
I don't know. Bo-Katan has had it rough. She loses Deathwatch, she loses Satine, she loses the uprising against the Empire and gets Mandalore nuked, and she loses her shot at redemption along with her followers because of Din. I'm not saying it wouldn't be interesting (read: hilarious) to see him snatch away the Mythosaur ride and become Mandalore while she gets a load of nothing out of it, but maybe the Force could side with Bo-Katan for a change and throw her a bone.
Additionally I'm thinking what you highlight as a virtue Din could make work for himself is also something that might work against him. He hasn't had any ambition to become Mandalore before, and both in his own show and in Book of Boba he's perfectly content to help out fellow Mandalorians because that's what he thinks the creed demands of him. It really depends on whether he is given a good enough reason to completely change his mind on the subject.
All true. Certainly whilst outwardly altruistic, I do kind of suspect Bo Katan is feathering her own nest here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I guess I’m kind of seeing Din as the “Grey Jedi” here. Of the Creed, but only guided, not blinded by it. And open to other takes on being Mandalorian. The True Believer that isn’t a fanatic type thing.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: All true. Certainly whilst outwardly altruistic, I do kind of suspect Bo Katan is feathering her own nest here.
The last scene perhaps, but that seemed rather frustrated by the cult's tenuous grasp on reality, where it doesn't make a difference if something is real or not (except actually getting wet, apparently).
The rest just seemed like a practical leader just taking charge with a real solution while the cultists mindlessly repeated their failures.
Wasn't expecting her ship to be a Tardis, though. Wouldn't want to clean it up, either.
Well, that was fun! Lots of action, further insights into how much inertia the New Republic has. And a mystery. Was it Mandalorians that took/rescued Moff Gideon, or is the Beskar perhaps a fragment of a Dark Trooper? Ooooooh. Or it could be Sabine? Outside chance though, as attacking a New Republic ship just doesn’t strike me as her style, what with the Rebellion and all.
Bo Katan off on a mission to start reuniting the various flavours of Mandalorian. Which may be setting up a duel between her and Din for the Dark Saber.
I’m still undecided on the former Imperial Officer. Is she playing the long game or not? Will need to give it another watch.
Also lovely to see Y-Wings on screen again. And….was that Zeb? Looked and sounded like him. Not sure if they name checked - the perils of viewing whilst also working. Looked great though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Bad Batch is a double episode this week.
It was Zeb! They didn’t name check him during the episode, but I was sure it had to be him, so I watched the credits and his name is on the list. Too lazy to check if it’s the same voice actor as in Rebels but it did sound like him.
I liked big guys speech, I figured it was an intentionally misleading opening to it and he pulled the twist I was expecting.
Our favorite rebel pilot is back, yay! After “former” imperial lady saw him and heard his theories, I was worried for him. Really expected it to be a trap and he was gonna bite it at the end. 100% sure the convenient beskar shard is a plant intended to cast suspicion.
Navarr is really pathetic. I’m surprised they lasted as long as they did given they have flat zero means of defending themselves from anything. No ships, no guns, no nothing, not even a token planetary defense force. Had to immediately just drop, run, and beg for help from others.
First off thanks for mentioning its another two episode week so I knew to skip back one.
Hm. That’s a suspiciously happy/emotional moment there, I don’t think I trust that.
Saw Gerrera, messing up everyone else’s plans since day one. That said, I wonder what the future would have looked like had they not messed up His plans and Tarkin was taken off the board.
Ah, yes, this is what I meant by suspiciously happy moment… I won’t believe it unless we see a body.
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal! They’ll obviously feel bad about it and help them later and all will be forgiven.
Shocker, the only two people with that accent were “secretly” related!
I loved episode 5 of the Mandalorian; lots of action; the plot is moving forward quite well. I thought the poor squadron captain was going to be led into an ambush and get killed, but it actually seems the Saxon clan is back into service of the Empire. I hope that Mando will join Bo-Katan in her mission as I loved the dynamic between the two (unless they just plan to have her come back with the cavalry for the season's final which I think would be lamer).
I am also a bit bummed by her helmet removal. She clearly has the coolest looking helmet in Star Wars; she should use it more :p.
Mando was good. We're finally getting somewhere with it. Plus, loads of fun, including everyone's favorite space cop.
Bad Batch was interesting. But of course...
Spoiler:
Come on. We didn't see a body. He did a Maul. In fact he's twice the Maul Maul was when Maul did a Maul, which makes it only half as hard to pull off. As fake as fake gets, that one.
Finally. A good non-Crosshair episode to Bad Batch. Now to see if they have the balls to follow through.
*next episode*
Oh wow another goo--And it's still good but I am disappointed. Kind of baffled why they'd go back to someone they decided they couldn't trust anymore and who, shockingly le GASP, betrays them.
Still better than most of S2 so I don't want to bitch too much, but man they got that layup and just botched it.
Mandalorian.
Okay, okay so there's rampant pirates and they have their own 'nation.' Alright I can get behind that. I mean, would have been nice if the season as a whole were laid out a bit better but late is better than never. The Corescant episode came back. Not sure we needed a whole episode to set it up. *shakes fist* Damn you Imperial bootlicker with an obvious ulterior motive!
And yeah that was fun. A bit rushed but fun. Better than the last 2 episodes at least and with a solid and clear direction for where we're going now.
Now to see how the wirter's room punch's ours heroes in the dick XD
Mando and Bad Batch absolutely killed it this week. Possibly the best both shows have been all season.
Mando
Spoiler:
I saw our space cop buddy talk to a Lassat, and I was like "oh please let it be Zeb" and intently watched the credits and to my utter delight, it was indeed Zeb, voiced by Steve Blum and everything! He was possibly my favorite Rebels character, so seeing him return even for a brief cameo was satisfying. On a whole, the episode really was great, lots of action and plot development. Former Imperial lady is most definitely not actually "former"; I wonder if she's still working for Gideon or perhaps another Imperial group got their hooks into her somehow (like maybe Thrawn).
Bad Batch
Spoiler:
I won't believe Tech is dead until I actually see his cold mangled corpse. Nobody should survive a fall from that height, but this is Disney and they generally only allow villains to die from fall damage (okay, there was Simba's dad, but...eh). And why in all the hells would the Batch go back to Sid? No gak she sold them out, I saw that coming a lightyear away. Now of course in S3 we're going to have a daring rescue that will see the whole squad reunited.
LordofHats wrote: Kind of baffled why they'd go back to someone they decided they couldn't trust anymore and who, shockingly le GASP, betrays them.
Spoiler:
I had assumed it was just because they needed medical attention and Ord Mantell was closer than Padu... And that may be the case, as we don't really know where Padu is, but Ord Mantell is clear across the other side of the galaxy from Eriadu, so it's likely the actual reason was just that it was a quick and easy way to introduce the sudden and inevitable betrayal.
Voss wrote: The whole point of laser weapons is they're color coded for audience convenience. How else are you going to know who the good guys are?
I want to say it's better these days, or at least it can be. I remember having trouble following Obi-Wan's and Anakin's duel on Mustafa back in the day when TVs were grainy and screen resolutions were smaller. It's not so bad in HD, or in theater. The show makers have to go out of their way dialing back the lighting (which we got a few times in this season of Bad Batch) if they want to go back to a strict need for color coding.
AduroT wrote: Yeah, I assume they went to Sid out of desperation/immediate need rather than because they wanted to. Seems she still had their medical droid perhaps?
I thought it was pretty clear that their one and only priority was to get Omega to the best doctor they could reach, and a familiar and capable Kaminoan medical droid would be better suited than whatever kind of voodoo priest an Outer Rim refugee camp can provide.
It also doesn't help that Omega is the brains of the operation and the rest of the Batch is just terrible at thinking things through.
Absolutely love the overall design. It’s compact, and pretty well armed and suited to its purpose.
At first I was a bit “but why kinetic weapons” for the underslung batteries. But given they seem dedicated bombardment guns, and the ships relatively small size (small than a CR-90 perhaps?) it may very well be to pack in maximum firepower without draining too much power.
And whilst I know this will probably annoy some when I point it out? That’s another canonical example of No Ship Shields whilst within an atmosphere, matching the Final Order’s issue over Exegol. And now I think about it? I can’t immediately think of something in the New Canon where a ship’s shields are seen to work in atmosphere? Though granted for that to be a conclusion I’d need an encyclopaedic knowledge of Clone Wars and Rebels etc. So as ever, happy to be proven wrong with relevant, new canon examples.
Voss wrote: The whole point of laser weapons is they're color coded for audience convenience. How else are you going to know who the good guys are?
That's never been the case with Star Wars. Both Rebel and Imperial ground troops had red blasters in the original trilogy. Only the ships were different.
The different colors denote the type of gas used to power the laser. Republic troops had blue blasters, because they had better quality equipment. Imperial troops got the cheaper and less potent red stuff.
Absolutely love the overall design. It’s compact, and pretty well armed and suited to its purpose.
At first I was a bit “but why kinetic weapons” for the underslung batteries. But given they seem dedicated bombardment guns, and the ships relatively small size (small than a CR-90 perhaps?) it may very well be to pack in maximum firepower without draining too much power.
And whilst I know this will probably annoy some when I point it out? That’s another canonical example of No Ship Shields whilst within an atmosphere, matching the Final Order’s issue over Exegol. And now I think about it? I can’t immediately think of something in the New Canon where a ship’s shields are seen to work in atmosphere? Though granted for that to be a conclusion I’d need an encyclopaedic knowledge of Clone Wars and Rebels etc. So as ever, happy to be proven wrong with relevant, new canon examples.
They mention pretty late in the fight that the shields are failing. There are shields on it and they do work in atmo. The ship just wasn't capable of maintaining them for too long. It seems like the early strikes took out their ability to regulate/generate power properly.
Cruiser needed to invest in better targeting. They couldn’t do more than fire indiscriminately at a city. Even when they tried to shoot the unmoving civilians at the end it was just trailing fire that failed to hit an unmoving target. Makes me wonder if the crew on board were as drunk as the guys on the ground.
Maybe pirates are like GW and hire for attitude rather than skill?
It might be a problem that it's been 5+ years since the New Republic took over. What's left flying around of the Empire isn't what it used to be and the New Republic is seriously disarming itself and letting large regions fend for themselves. It might actually be a case that the pirates meet little resistance and therefore don't get in enough practice. That could also lead to making cheaper hires more attractive because there's no point in paying for over-qualification. Especially if they're somehow organized in a nation and get around internal conflict through a tribute system.
It was Zeb! They didn’t name check him during the episode, but I was sure it had to be him, so I watched the credits and his name is on the list. Too lazy to check if it’s the same voice actor as in Rebels but it did sound like him.
You read the credits and didn't recognize Steve Blum? The voice of everything (including Zeb )?
That was for sure a huge treat. Great cameo there. The episode itself did a great job tying the desperate threads so far together. Used all of its time very well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Bad Batch was certainly a lot better than its been, though I was opening laughing at the gusto in which Tech waved his death flags. The "come back safe" and.... everything was more blatant than Sid's red variants, but lets not pretend that anything about this show is more than comfort food.
Absolutely love the overall design. It’s compact, and pretty well armed and suited to its purpose.
At first I was a bit “but why kinetic weapons” for the underslung batteries. But given they seem dedicated bombardment guns, and the ships relatively small size (small than a CR-90 perhaps?) it may very well be to pack in maximum firepower without draining too much power.
And whilst I know this will probably annoy some when I point it out? That’s another canonical example of No Ship Shields whilst within an atmosphere, matching the Final Order’s issue over Exegol. And now I think about it? I can’t immediately think of something in the New Canon where a ship’s shields are seen to work in atmosphere? Though granted for that to be a conclusion I’d need an encyclopaedic knowledge of Clone Wars and Rebels etc. So as ever, happy to be proven wrong with relevant, new canon examples.
yhea, that thing gave me serious Homeworld vibes, in a good way.
they DO mention its shields, but they clearly are struggling to deal with the attacks as they've been loosing engines already at that point. it might be a case the sheilds are less effective in atmosphere, or just plain old Plot Armour. Then again, we rarely see star wars shields do much more than stop one or two shots most of the time, so its not beyond the norm.
has this been so far? The early episodes have been largely rubbish with some little good bits or one-offs but the last two episodes have been really good.
