kodos wrote: So it is not fun for the opponent to get shot by a Knight and therefore rules are needed to change that.
but it is fun for the Knight player to get shot by invisible units he cannot shoot back?
I would say the target is that the game is fun for both players and not in one edition player A has fun while in the next edition player B
Aren't knights tanky enough to not get focused down in a single turn? I think the knight player has time to reposition and open fire.
Or just position in such a way as to always be able to fire.
why do you think this is only a single turn?
I just need to hide my Anti-Tank units behind a 5" terrain in my deployment zone and can shoot at the Knight right from the start. He cannot hide
while he needs to walk thru the whole table and around the terrain to see that unit (but I can also run around it so that there is always the piece of terrain between them)
there is no way the Knight player can position himself to always fire
there is a reason why nearly every game has a "as soon as you shoot me I can see you and shoot back" rule
(if the unit is very hard to hit or get very good save is a different story but invisbile while shooting would be something unique again for 40k)
Eyjio wrote: I don't mean to sound overly rude, but the examples attempting to show the terrain rules are ridiculous are absolutely terribly thought out and ignore that both players must agree the traits of each terrain piece before the battle begins.
Which is fething terrible by the way. I'm glad we're regressing back to pre 8th edition where we have to ask our opponent if they're okay with getting dicked by my terrain designations- or vice versa.
Latro_ wrote: someone posted this on the WH40k facebook thread for the preview, another legend.
bloodletter is safe
The bloodletter is clearly not safe. If the Knight moves to the right or the left, it will be able to shoot the bloodletter. If the knight goes to the front, it will be able to charge and kill the boodletter.
You assume movement phase is not done already. Warlord titan isn't shooting that letter nor is he charging(too far)
Eyjio wrote: I don't mean to sound overly rude, but the examples attempting to show the terrain rules are ridiculous are absolutely terribly thought out and ignore that both players must agree the traits of each terrain piece before the battle begins.
Which is fething terrible by the way. I'm glad we're regressing back to pre 8th edition where we have to ask our opponent if they're okay with getting dicked by my terrain designations- or vice versa.
What are you talking about?
Throughout 8th Edition, every single game I've played I've had to clarify this with my opponents.
In Casual and Competitive games, I always have to confirm which terrain rules they prefer to play with: GW Rulebook, ITC, ETC, or something else--and then we have to agree how we will apply that to the terrain on the table.
In Tournament settings, they usually define ITC/ETC and we still end up having to agree which terrain elements qualify as LOS blocking or not (e.g., windows versus broken walls versus doors, etc.), and still constantly have to agree intent (e.g., exactly 1" away from within an LOS blocking L-block wall, blah blah). If they leave it to the GW Rulebook, we're left with a very shooting-favorable set up with little room to give help to melee board-advancement.
I still think we'll have to do all of the above, but at least when in the GW Rulebook paradigm, we'll have more pre-agreed tools with which to work.
Eyjio wrote: I don't mean to sound overly rude, but the examples attempting to show the terrain rules are ridiculous are absolutely terribly thought out and ignore that both players must agree the traits of each terrain piece before the battle begins.
Which is fething terrible by the way. I'm glad we're regressing back to pre 8th edition where we have to ask our opponent if they're okay with getting dicked by my terrain designations- or vice versa.
or just use the default ones "well these are ruins so they have this" etc
I currently have no problem with the new terrain rules, and i think that things are being overthought by everyone. Once in game, things will be fine. They have slightly dropped the ball on the wording of the 18+ wound criteria though and I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”. Seeing “over” things will be an adjustment for some people depending on the terrain they use, but, you just have to imagine the terrain piece as a box, based on it’s entire footprint.
Kdash wrote: I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”.
you realise that this would make the whole obscured rule obsolete?
Obscured is there that although you can physically see something, you cannot see it "in game", except stuff that is so big that you cannot hide it no matter how big the terrain might be
mixing True Line of Sight with Abstract Line of Sight works up to a point but in the way as GW wrote their rules
Not going into the discussion about wording of the obscuring rule, but as a chaos knight player at multiple ETC tournaments I'm very worried about the outcome of the new terrain rules.
In my experience, I have often had games where I was not able to shoot my opponent at all even if I had first turn because of TLOS blocking buildings regardless of deployment. I was okay with this. It gave me time to position my knights on objectives and get closer to melee range. Then the opponent would move out in TLOS and I would be alpha striked and hoped that it wasn't enough to knock me out entirely and try to do payback next turn. A fair game.
Infantry armies can go through walls, hide in building and scale buildings where I have to pay CPs to assault them. This is their strengths against me. My biggest strength was being able to walk with heavy weapons and ignore -1 to hit and being able to fall out of combat and still shoot - both of which is now going to be free to all armies which indirectly means a giant nerf to knights. I never souped but sounds like this is going away now. At least i get a little buff with PA but nothing game changing.
I had the pleasure of dealing with eliminator sniper units that can shoot without TLOS. There was no way of getting to them because I had to move around all buildings and deal with the other 80 % of the enemy army in the meantime. If the obscuring rule is true, this is the final nail in the coffin for knights when facing any other army than other knight armies.
Kdash wrote: I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”.
you realise that this would make the whole obscured rule obsolete?
Obscured is there that although you can physically see something, you cannot see it "in game", except stuff that is so big that you cannot hide it no matter how big the terrain might be
mixing True Line of Sight with Abstract Line of Sight works up to a point but in the way as GW wrote their rules
The only other way that it'll be fixed, is in the "targeting" rules.
Kdash wrote: I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”.
you realise that this would make the whole obscured rule obsolete?
Obscured is there that although you can physically see something, you cannot see it "in game", except stuff that is so big that you cannot hide it no matter how big the terrain might be
mixing True Line of Sight with Abstract Line of Sight works up to a point but in the way as GW wrote their rules
The rule as is would be fine if they clarified that for 18+ wounds and fliers are always considered valid targets through the terrakn subject to true line of sight
licensedfool wrote: Not going into the discussion about wording of the obscuring rule, but as a chaos knight player at multiple ETC tournaments I'm very worried about the outcome of the new terrain rules.
In my experience, I have often had games where I was not able to shoot my opponent at all even if I had first turn because of TLOS blocking buildings regardless of deployment. I was okay with this. It gave me time to position my knights on objectives and get closer to melee range. Then the opponent would move out in TLOS and I would be alpha striked and hoped that it wasn't enough to knock me out entirely and try to do payback next turn. A fair game.
Infantry armies can go through walls, hide in building and scale buildings where I have to pay CPs to assault them. This is their strengths against me. My biggest strength was being able to walk with heavy weapons and ignore -1 to hit and being able to fall out of combat and still shoot - both of which is now going to be free to all armies which indirectly means a giant nerf to knights. I never souped but sounds like this is going away now. At least i get a little buff with PA but nothing game changing.
I had the pleasure of dealing with eliminator sniper units that can shoot without TLOS. There was no way of getting to them because I had to move around all buildings and deal with the other 80 % of the enemy army in the meantime. If the obscuring rule is true, this is the final nail in the coffin for knights when facing any other army than other knight armies.
Unless Super Heavies/18 wound models (let's refer to them as SH) get to be able to assault a unit if it is on a piece of terrain even if the base of the SH is 3' or 4' inch away (instead of being no further than 1' away). I really hope they have engagement distances vary with terrain in this "best ever" 9th edition. Everyone I know is hoping for this (not only for SH mind you, but SH have a long reach, I mean look at the lengh of a knight chainblade).
Otherwise assaulting with non infantry units is going to be a painful experience, just like in 8th.
Let's hope they really did think this through
licensedfool wrote: I had the pleasure of dealing with eliminator sniper units that can shoot without TLOS. There was no way of getting to them because I had to move around all buildings and deal with the other 80 % of the enemy army in the meantime. If the obscuring rule is true, this is the final nail in the coffin for knights when facing any other army than other knight armies.
Your knights are afraid of nine Str5, AP-1, D1 shots a turn? It’s about the worst bullet they have.
licensedfool wrote: this is the final nail in the coffin for knights when facing any other army than other knight armies.
I hope I am not the only one to say "Good.GrumpyCat" to this?
No,
Buuuut it be nice to kick the Rest Of the skewing low's out aswell.
And that is an issue because gw can't decide of it wanted a skirmish or platoon sized game.
Edit: a dann shame for those that wanted to play the knights though and bought them and are now saddeled with what Looks Like a non-functional army, i know that feeling all to well.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (can you fire at the tip of a spike on the wing on my Hive Tyrant, even when behind "Obscuring" terrain?).
If a molecule is visible on the side of the terrain, yes. If it is visible above the terrain, no. As per the rules for Obscure.
We don't know that, perhaps they will specify that spikes, banners, blades, bits of rope, skulls on spikes, bits and bobs will not count when determining LOS
Kdash wrote: I currently have no problem with the new terrain rules, and i think that things are being overthought by everyone. Once in game, things will be fine. They have slightly dropped the ball on the wording of the 18+ wound criteria though and I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”. Seeing “over” things will be an adjustment for some people depending on the terrain they use, but, you just have to imagine the terrain piece as a box, based on it’s entire footprint.
I think the logic with the 18+ wound criteria is meant to try and account for conversions or player made terrain without forcing players to make their models adhere to a specified silhouette. Take for example a homemade ruin built by a player which looks like this:
Pretty average looking right? BUT WAIT! WHAT'S THAT BEHIND THE RUIN!?
Spoiler:
Because in the above example if true LOS was the singular determining factor for shooting massive models, then it would change literally nothing for infantry (they get obscured no matter where they stand in the ruin or even if there are walls covering them from LOS), but would be significantly abuse-able by large models which are now gaining immunity from completely bombed out buildings via bizarre technicality.
I think this will all be also under the assumption that every unit GW releases from now on will only have 18+ wounds if it is (by official model) a very large target which shouldn't benefit from obscured.
Kdash wrote: I currently have no problem with the new terrain rules, and i think that things are being overthought by everyone. Once in game, things will be fine. They have slightly dropped the ball on the wording of the 18+ wound criteria though and I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”. Seeing “over” things will be an adjustment for some people depending on the terrain they use, but, you just have to imagine the terrain piece as a box, based on it’s entire footprint.
I think the logic with the 18+ wound criteria is meant to try and account for conversions or player made terrain without forcing players to make their models adhere to a specified silhouette. Take for example a homemade ruin built by a player which looks like this:
Pretty average looking right? BUT WAIT! WHAT'S THAT BEHIND THE RUIN!?
Spoiler:
Because in the above example if true LOS was the singular determining factor for shooting massive models, then it would change literally nothing for infantry (they get obscured no matter where they stand in the ruin or even if there are walls covering them from LOS), but would be significantly abuse-able by large models which are now gaining immunity from completely bombed out buildings via bizarre technicality.
I think this will all be also under the assumption that every unit GW releases from now on will only have 18+ wounds if it is (by official model) a very large target which shouldn't benefit from obscured.
Competitive tournaments don’t even use ruins with windows. They use walls, and if they run out of L-walls, they just say all the windows count as closed. So, the Knight won’t benefit from ’obscuring’ but as long as it can’t be seen physically it still can’t be shot. I’ve hidden my Crimson Hunters behind ruins a lot in 8th edition deployments, and that won’t change in 9th.
Like you said yourself, the benefit of obscuring is that a Hive Tyrant that would otherwise be hidden if it wasn’t for wings flying 5” above it’s head, or a scenic base, won’t be shot from behind a relatively small 5” high ruin like it would have been in the 8th. However, because we can still draw los from the side to a wingtip or a gun barrel, I doubt the game impact of obscuring will be in any way meaningful for tournament players who are already accustomed to playing on tables with 4 or more symmetrical and massive solid L-shape walls.
yukishiro1 wrote: But the perplexing thing here is that ITC did this right, and they proved it doesn't create any sort of exploit or game problem. ITC's "first floor blocks LOS" rule works great. Nobody has issues with it.
A lot of people had a problem with it. ITC houserules mean that a soldier peeking out of first floor window cannot shoot at the enemy nor can be shot at. This doesn't make sense. Furthermore, it turned many ruins into bizarre unassaultable bunkers. GW rule is way more sensible.
False.
All the ITC rules needed was ONE additional clause. That units within the terrain feature can shoot and be shot at, but not through it.
Would remove magic boxes and make a simpler, cleaner, better abstraction.
Hankovitch wrote: Sticking to "cover as a bonus to saves," instead of going back to cover as its own form of save, is one of the biggest missteps of 8th and 9th.
Yeah, cover being useless for high save models was soooo nice.
Honestly, your both right!
Light cover should have been +1 save
Heavy cover should have been a 5++ save
For some odd reason heavy cover irrelevant to ranged attacks while light cover is to combat...
They could have just made them both work in melee and again, it's cleaner and more intuitive.
Kdash wrote: I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”.
you realise that this would make the whole obscured rule obsolete?
Obscured is there that although you can physically see something, you cannot see it "in game", except stuff that is so big that you cannot hide it no matter how big the terrain might be
mixing True Line of Sight with Abstract Line of Sight works up to a point but in the way as GW wrote their rules
The rule as is would be fine if they clarified that for 18+ wounds and fliers are always considered valid targets through the terrakn subject to true line of sight
All they really have to do is errata the phrase "can be targeted" to "can be targeted as normal." It would refer the player back to normal targeting rules (i.e. TLOS).
Kdash wrote: I expect that it will get clarified to mean “if it can be physically seen, ignore the Obscured rule”.
you realise that this would make the whole obscured rule obsolete?
Obscured is there that although you can physically see something, you cannot see it "in game", except stuff that is so big that you cannot hide it no matter how big the terrain might be
mixing True Line of Sight with Abstract Line of Sight works up to a point but in the way as GW wrote their rules
The rule as is would be fine if they clarified that for 18+ wounds and fliers are always considered valid targets through the terrakn subject to true line of sight
All they really have to do is errata the phrase "can be targeted" to "can be targeted as normal." It would refer the player back to normal targeting rules (i.e. TLOS).
We have not seen the LOS rules yet, how do you want to now what "normal" will be?
Mixed view on flyers tbh - although they didn't really explain how they will work.
Yes, movement blocking was lame.
Yes, circling round the battlefield acting more like a helicopter than the hypersonic fighter jet was a bit lame.
But... 40k is a model game. I don't *want* stuff to be off the board. (Which is also why I'm not really persuaded at all this outflank stuff they keep talking up). This sounds very much like a return to 7th where you are going to turn up and shoot, then fly off the board next turn, then rinse repeat. Which was kind of dull.
These rules seem very well thought out, much more immersive than movement blocking flyers (which lasted through all three editions if I recall correctly).
Also aircraft dying because they could not be placed on the board was very satisfying (with GSC it was EZ to pull off) but total nonsense (why would they crash ??)
But I guess the moaning and graning may commence anyway...
All they really have to do is errata the phrase "can be targeted" to "can be targeted as normal." It would refer the player back to normal targeting rules (i.e. TLOS).
They shouldn't have to because you're applying the targeting rules first and thus if the model can't be seen in the first place, you don't have to apply the rules for obscured.
So today's Twitch video, apart from a clarification that true line of sight is still at the basis of the game, no significant news.
Aircraft will be an additional keyword above fly keyword. Something with aircraft keyword will be treated slightly differently from fly.
Ability to leave and re-enter battlefield has been confirmed, but no details given.
Less gamey interactions, like previously : a flyer will not crash if the opponent deprives it from place to put its base.
Other units will be able to go through its base.
There will be a (short) list of units counting as aircraft in the rulebook.
You will always be capable of getting a line of sight to an aircraft through obscuring terrain.
Some flyers will not count as aircraft : Heldrakes and Harpies.
Ice_can wrote: You realise that's a Warlord Titan Not a Knight right? Like the thing is like 4ft tall and still can shoot what it can clealry see.
I thought warlords had the big cathedral thingy on their backs.
yukishiro1 wrote: Yep. And who knows, maybe three turns from now a model you can't even see in the photo could get him too.
I mean, in the grim-dark world of the 41st millenium, nobody is ever really safe!!! Am I right or am I right, guys???
You make a good point: the bloodletter is actually safe, because he cannot be killed by the knight titan big robot thingy. Just sent back into the warp!
He might have been in trouble if he was facing the knights of titan though!
tneva82 wrote: You assume movement phase is not done already. Warlord titan isn't shooting that letter nor is he charging(too far)
I assume so because if the movement phase wasn't done already, why would the knight player have gone here when it meant he cannot shoot at the only model on the board?
(For real though I was trying to make a joke and everyone took it seriously)
Aircraft that arrives from reserve can be set up anywhere, even in the middle of the board! But cannot be close to enemy models. Longass way to say "You can ignore this model's base" ^^.
No mention in today's WHC article of turning radius... though with all the focus on how to handle flying off the table edge, I can only assume that still exists.
Interesting insight into how Strategic Reserves are potentially going to work (more details tomorrow). The specifics around flyers arriving no-closer-than-9" is interesting. Certainly gives a lot more maneuverability--though you'd lose a turn of shooting if you do that.
No mention of whether they are still "hard to hit" or not.
No mention as to whether they can start off in Strategic Reserves before the first turn.
Tyel wrote: Mixed view on flyers tbh - although they didn't really explain how they will work.
Yes, movement blocking was lame.
Yes, circling round the battlefield acting more like a helicopter than the hypersonic fighter jet was a bit lame.
But... 40k is a model game. I don't *want* stuff to be off the board. (Which is also why I'm not really persuaded at all this outflank stuff they keep talking up). This sounds very much like a return to 7th where you are going to turn up and shoot, then fly off the board next turn, then rinse repeat. Which was kind of dull.
Better than 10 Guardmen destroying the plane because the plane doesn't have a place to end its movement anymore. That was one of the most stupid rules in 8th.
sieGermans wrote: No mention in today's WHC article of turning radius... though with all the focus on how to handle flying off the table edge, I can only assume that still exists.
Interesting insight into how Strategic Reserves are potentially going to work (more details tomorrow). The specifics around flyers arriving no-closer-than-9" is interesting. Certainly gives a lot more maneuverability--though you'd lose a turn of shooting if you do that.
No mention of whether they are still "hard to hit" or not.
No mention as to whether they can start off in Strategic Reserves before the first turn.
Turning and "hard to hit" are datasheet rules, so it's expected to not be covered in the rules.
Why is it that you would lose one turn of shooting if you came back from reserves ? I didn't get that from the preview.
It doesn't actually say you can ignore an aircraft's base, does it? In other words, you still can't end your movement on top of an aircraft's base. So there will still be most of the opportunities for gaming with it. You can still move-block in the strictest sense that nobody can end their move/charge/consolidate/etc on the aircraft's base, so you can still use them to block off space in gimmicky ways.
It's an improvement, but it's still this weird halfway house where they're sort-of on the board and sort-of not.
Why is it that you would lose one turn of shooting if you came back from reserves ? I didn't get that from the preview.
Because if you move off during your movement phase, presumably the earliest time you can come back is the NEXT movement phase. I can't imagine the strategic reserve rule for aircraft lets you move of the board and then come back again in that *same* movement phase. That would basically mean the flyer gets to DS to a new position every single turn with no cost because you can always just move off the table then reappear anywhere.
dhallnet wrote: Why is it that you would lose one turn of shooting if you came back from reserves ? I didn't get that from the preview.
If you move out of the board, you don't shoot for the turn you are out of the board (but cannot be shot at either). You can shot back the next turn when you come out of reserve.
kodos wrote:
We have not seen the LOS rules yet, how do you want to now what "normal" will be?
Fair enough. I'm making the assumption that targeting will still be based on TLOS. I'm also assuming that the point of that line in the Obscured rule is to indicate that models with 18+W and aircraft don't get the benefit of the rule. My pink text is just one example of how they could clarify that.
dhallnet wrote:
EnTyme wrote:
All they really have to do is errata the phrase "can be targeted" to "can be targeted as normal." It would refer the player back to normal targeting rules (i.e. TLOS).
They shouldn't have to because you're applying the targeting rules first and thus if the model can't be seen in the first place, you don't have to apply the rules for obscured.
You're right. They shouldn't, but this is the internet where we regularly see TFG arguing that basic English words don't mean what they mean if willfully misinterpreting the word benefits them. The more clarity in the rules the better.
sieGermans wrote:No mention in today's WHC article of turning radius... though with all the focus on how to handle flying off the table edge, I can only assume that still exists.
dhallnet wrote: Why is it that you would lose one turn of shooting if you came back from reserves ? I didn't get that from the preview.
If you move out of the board, you don't shoot for the turn you are out of the board (but cannot be shot at either). You can shot back the next turn when you come out of reserve.
Eldarsif wrote: Better than 10 Guardmen destroying the plane because the plane doesn't have a place to end its movement anymore. That was one of the most stupid rules in 8th.
I guess.. immersion wise - but tbh, I felt that was your fault for putting your plane in the wrong place, and as a plane bringer you deserve everything you get (even if Eldar aside, planes have not been that great this edition.)
People seem to think its a big problem, so I guess it was - but I think it was incredibly rare to kill a plane via this method.
I've seen aircraft die due to going off the board - but that was usually because the player knew that was going to happen next turn, but they wanted them to move to a certain location in order to shoot something (often say sniping a character.)
I love the fact that they put in a whole paragraph pretty much saying "hey guys, these are just the short highlights of the full rules in the book"
Its as if they think people have been reading these previews and getting themselves worked up over wild conjecturing........
So far, so good as far as I am concerned.
Can't see much of a problem with the terrain (though i cant speak for organized tournament circuits, my group will probably come up with some form of sheet detailing what all our custom terrain does and does not do fairly easily)
LOVE the changes to monstrous creatures and command points.
Yeah, my hordes of termies and hormies may be getting more expensive and certainly more fragile, but I still think that maybe this is because cheap troop units are going to be more viable for the purposes of mission objectives (instead of say, killing stuff or tarpitting)
Intrigued by what these mission "actions" things are going to entail...could be mostly useless, or could be really fun. Its these and the crusade system (our group uses power level so I'm not at all worried about it) that's most interesting to me now.
Hopefully won't be too long before we get some words on the reserves changes they mentioned too.
Never liked 8th's rules that only stuff with a reserve related rule on the datasheet or powered by certain faction specific strategems could be held back.
I'd quite like to be able to send in my gaunts wave by wave like in the stories
As for my Ravenwing/Deathwing army its pretty much looking like its now going to be actually functional and able to win games, so positives all round for them.
Not sure about my Goff/Bad moon alliance yet (I built it to fight my Dark Angels, so its Ghazzy and a homemade Nazdreg ala Piscina), other than I may be putting some Skorchas on my Deff Dreads.
Overall, looks like very positive changes in 9th as a narrative player at least.
Hope you tournament players find it an improvement too
yukishiro1 wrote: It doesn't actually say you can ignore an aircraft's base, does it? In other words, you still can't end your movement on top of an aircraft's base.
Correct. It doesn't spell it out, but while models can move across an aircraft's base, they can't end their move on it. [unless that's somehow part of normal rules for all models, but I doubt it.]
I'm glad, actually, because overlapping bases quickly becomes a problem. of displacing models when you want to move the one of the bottom.
So there will still be most of the opportunities for gaming with it. You can still move-block in the strictest sense that nobody can end their move/charge/consolidate/etc on the aircraft's base, so you can still use them to block off space in gimmicky ways.
Yep. This comes to mind with the Ad Mech flyers and their anti-aura strat. You can still spread out models and prevent them from stopping within 6" of an aura-giver.
It's an improvement, but it's still this weird halfway house where they're sort-of on the board and sort-of not.
Yeah. Its the last clause that worries me. Are there any strats or psychic powers that temporarily give Fly? Suddenly non-charge combat can happen to models that were previously ignoring the aircraft.
The opposite is (currently) true for the hover mode of the Stormtalon Gunship as well. The gunship suddenly hovers down into engagement with enemy models, not moving at all. What happens?
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princeyg wrote:I love the fact that they put in a whole paragraph pretty much saying "hey guys, these are just the short highlights of the full rules in the book"
That isn't what it says. It says they're previewing the bullet point summaries that are actually in the rulebook, but they aren't complete so you'll need to check the full rules and not just the summaries when you're trying to work out rules interactions.
WarCom wrote:The bullet points above are actually a preview of how each rules topic is conveniently summarised at the end of each section for easy reference. If you need a reminder, check the bullet points, but if you seek further clarification, you just read the full description above them. If only all things in life were that simple!
So they're bulletpoint summaries that leave out the necessary details to work out rules interactions, and this will be a 'feature' of the rulebook.
So have fun with arguments involving the following lines: 'the bulletpoints say this' and 'Yes, but the RULES say otherwise'
BA Wings of Sanguinius comes to mind. A librarian (even a librarian dreadnaught!) can suddenly take off in the psychic phase.
I assume this will immediately put both units into combat...but who really knows?
If so, that really has the potential for weird, gamey interactions. The game isn't set up to allow stuff to enter combat during the movement and especially the psychic phases. It could do really strange things.
Am I the only one who noticed that the article said that the new Forge World books will be coming out at the same time as 9th? So when are they going to start previewing those? I need to know if my resin toys are going to be better, or worse. And if my R&H will be back, or squatted.
So how exactly does a "murderous strafing run" work if shooting occurs after the movement phase?
Turn 1: move into position, and then shoot.
Turn 2 move off board, not allowed to shoot (maybe allow for a bomb to be dropped during movement phase?).
Turn 3 move back onto board.
So you miss out on an entire turn's shooting phase just to be able to fly off the board?
Edit: Also, does every aircraft have the ability to start in Strategic Reserves and arrive Turn 1?
Also, RAW, it doesn't say that "only models without fly can move within engagement range." It says any models can. So your smash captain can RAW move within 1" of an aircraft in the movement phase. Does this put him into combat, and therefore allow him to engage an aircraft without suffering overwatch?
Ooh, and another weird thing: why would having fly mean you don't get to ignore aircraft in the pile-in and consolidation phases? In 8th, the FLY keyword has no effect in the fight phase. Does this mean that FLY now works in the fight phase? Otherwise, this provision makes no sense.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Am I the only one who noticed that the article said that the new Forge World books will be coming out at the same time as 9th? So when are they going to start previewing those? I need to know if my resin toys are going to be better, or worse. And if my R&H will be back, or squatted.
"*** The list of Forge World Flyers receiving the Aircraft keyword will be included in their rules updates on the same day that the new edition is launched."
I think that means that there will be a FAQ Day 1, not that the books will be available Day 1.
In practice, most of the aircraft rules will play very similarly to the current ones.
I don't see many people choosing to fly off their table in the movement phase since you miss out on a whole turn of shooting by doing so. That's going to be more for a desperation tactic or when you're already got the enemy pinned in a corner.
"That isn't what it says. It says they're previewing the bullet point summaries that are actually in the rulebook, but they aren't complete so you'll need to check the full rules and not just the summaries when you're trying to work out rules interactions."
Perhaps I should have worded it differently but that is what I meant. I just found it funny that they would have to explain this bit at all. I mean "preview" kinda implies its not going to be the full rules itself right?
I didn't mean people were going to actually use the bulletpoints as the rules themselves, just a bit of silly humor about overreacting to snippets of various rules I've seen previously on this and many other forums.
yukishiro1 wrote: BA Wings of Sanguinius comes to mind. A librarian (even a librarian dreadnaught!) can suddenly take off in the psychic phase.
I assume this will immediately put both units into combat...but who really knows?
If so, that really has the potential for weird, gamey interactions.
Thinking about it, it seems weird. As written, even flyers can move and ignore engagement range of aircraft (and vice versa), but its 'can' so...
But if you're fighting chaos marines at the base of a heldrake and you have 'Wings of Sanguinius' on, you can fight the marines while ignoring the aircraft, but you're suddenly stuck consolidating into the aircraft. But regardless of who's turn it is next, either the unit (flying or not) or the aircraft can move away using a normal move.
Heroic intervention seems a positive (you can suddenly charge the aircraft), but piles in or consolidates seems a negative- you're stuck going into a model that can just wander off. This actually sounds like something you'd want to do to an enemy, so they can't consolidate/pile into other stuff.
The stormtalon seems much more confusing.
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princeyg wrote: "That isn't what it says. It says they're previewing the bullet point summaries that are actually in the rulebook, but they aren't complete so you'll need to check the full rules and not just the summaries when you're trying to work out rules interactions."
Perhaps I should have worded it differently but that is what I meant. I just found it funny that they would have to explain this bit at all. I mean "preview" kinda implies its not going to be the full rules itself right?
No. For GW, preview means they're showing boxes of text from the book. There aren't any more rules for obscuring, and there aren't any more bullet points for aircraft/model interactions.
I didn't mean people were going to actually use the bulletpoints as the rules themselves, just a bit of silly humor about overreacting to snippets of various rules I've seen previously on this and many other forums.
You might not have meant that, but I'm telling you that there will be rules arguments centering around exactly that.
terry wrote: if they follow AoS regarding the tabling system. You don't stop playing when one is tabled, so you use those turns to score some more points. But the winner is the one with the most points, no matter if that person has no more models left. Personaly I like at, as it forces you to think about how you can play the mission
Definitely. More than one game I have won despite being tabled, because I outplayed my opponent in a strategic level. And far more than one game I could have tabled my opponent but did not because I needed to play to the scenario.
It lets you drop an aircraft into combat with stuff without charging, at the beginning of your movement phase. That's definitely weird. But they can just move away in their movement phase, and it doesn't count as falling back. So I'm not sure it's actually all that abusive. Putting something in hover mode doesn't make it lose the aircraft keyword per the Engine War datasheets; if it did, there would be all sorts of nonsense you could pull.
It would be a lot more problematic if you chose hover mode at the beginning of the battle round rather than your turn. As is, I may be missing something, but I don't see a huge advantage. There are some really weird edge cases where it'd be useful - if you are fighting stuff that gets to shoot on death, noise marines for example, you could use it to make your flyer unshootable by putting yourself into combat in your movement phase, before you start killing them. But that's a super rare interaction.
The bigger effect from all this seems to be that if you have a model with fly, you can charge-but-not-charge an aircraft in the movement phase simply by moving within 1" of it.
Tyel wrote: Mixed view on flyers tbh - although they didn't really explain how they will work.
Yes, movement blocking was lame.
Yes, circling round the battlefield acting more like a helicopter than the hypersonic fighter jet was a bit lame.
But... 40k is a model game. I don't *want* stuff to be off the board. (Which is also why I'm not really persuaded at all this outflank stuff they keep talking up). This sounds very much like a return to 7th where you are going to turn up and shoot, then fly off the board next turn, then rinse repeat. Which was kind of dull.
On the second point, most 40K flyers have vectored engines allowing for a hovering mode, only a relatively few don't (dakkajets for sure, probably eldar/dark eldar, not 100% sure on necrons...).
Though I wish they would go the Bolt Action/Flames of War/Team Yankee/Battletech route - you place the flying model on the board to indicate an attack run, AA weaponry performs an overwatch style retaliation/preemptive attack, then the fliers are removed. Only hovering vehicles remain on the board.
Tyel wrote: Mixed view on flyers tbh - although they didn't really explain how they will work.
Yes, movement blocking was lame.
Yes, circling round the battlefield acting more like a helicopter than the hypersonic fighter jet was a bit lame.
But... 40k is a model game. I don't *want* stuff to be off the board. (Which is also why I'm not really persuaded at all this outflank stuff they keep talking up). This sounds very much like a return to 7th where you are going to turn up and shoot, then fly off the board next turn, then rinse repeat. Which was kind of dull.
On the second point, most 40K flyers have vectored engines allowing for a hovering mode, only a relatively few don't (dakkajets for sure, probably eldar/dark eldar, not 100% sure on necrons...).
Though I wish they would go the Bolt Action/Flames of War/Team Yankee/Battletech route - you place the flying model on the board to indicate an attack run, AA weaponry performs an overwatch style retaliation/preemptive attack, then the fliers are removed. Only hovering vehicles remain on the board.
Yes, ideally that is how aircraft and AA should work, especially aircraft with the "supersonic" datasheet trait. Hovering models would use standard fly/skimmer rules and stay on the table.
Eldarsif wrote: Better than 10 Guardmen destroying the plane because the plane doesn't have a place to end its movement anymore. That was one of the most stupid rules in 8th.
I guess.. immersion wise - but tbh, I felt that was your fault for putting your plane in the wrong place, and as a plane bringer you deserve everything you get (even if Eldar aside, planes have not been that great this edition.)
People seem to think its a big problem, so I guess it was - but I think it was incredibly rare to kill a plane via this method.
I've seen aircraft die due to going off the board - but that was usually because the player knew that was going to happen next turn, but they wanted them to move to a certain location in order to shoot something (often say sniping a character.)
Depends entirely on the army setup and table setup. If you had a busy table and playing against IG it was quite easy to be screwed over and lose your plane quickly. All in all a bad game design that meant the lethality of planes had to be much higher to make up for their required finesse.
I'm dumb, I don't get it. If I have a flyer which is completely blocked from LoS by terrain that doesn't have the obscured keyword, is it still always visible?
and i guess... flyers cant be attacked in CC anymore? that would make alot of sense actually
What makes you think this? The bullet points lead me to believe that models with the fly keyword will be able to attack them in CC.
Heck, the Heldrake is designed to attack them
We don't have the full info, but it looks to me that Aircraft are going to be similar to end of previous edition with a few extra things (Obscured, flying off table etc)
I see nothing that suggests what can and can't attack them in CC changing
I would be very surprised if detailed rules are not about which will state that fly models can not enter engagement zone of aircraft unless it's during the assault phase. Easy enough to have similar for Aircraft going into hover mode to say they can not end their movement phase in engagement zone of another model when in Hover mode even if going into the mode starts in engagement distance
PiñaColada wrote: I'm dumb, I don't get it. If I have a flyer which is completely blocked from LoS by terrain that doesn't have the obscured keyword, is it still always visible?
Nope, its only visible through obscured scenery I think.
I'd like to see a scenario or two that's like one of the missions in Space Marine - a squadron of fliers on one side being attacked by jetpack-equipped attackers and flak on the other side. Sort of a modification of the old convoy scenario, except everything has to have Fly.
Also, I guess I don't understand why on the new rules that they made it the 18+ wound model can be seen & attacked, but the reverse isn't true. How can LOS be one way?
PiñaColada wrote: I'm dumb, I don't get it. If I have a flyer which is completely blocked from LoS by terrain that doesn't have the obscured keyword, is it still always visible?
Your not it's one of the issue GW previews have always had, the designers make bold sweeping statements the Community tears new "playtested design appart within 20 mins. Desingers backpeddle saying we don't have the full rules it's all balanced fine.
Much like they said when the Community flipped the table over Marine's Iron hands supliment. How many times were we assured it was balanced and we where over reacting. 3 nerf cycles later and still one of the top codex's. But the design team knows better than the Community always.
PiñaColada wrote: I'm dumb, I don't get it. If I have a flyer which is completely blocked from LoS by terrain that doesn't have the obscured keyword, is it still always visible?
I don't think so but I have to keep re-reading the words - I really hope they have clear examples in the rule book!
Its wierd that a solid "non" Obscuring piece of terrain would block LOS but a Obscuring peice of terrain would not!
Gadzilla666 wrote: Am I the only one who noticed that the article said that the new Forge World books will be coming out at the same time as 9th? So when are they going to start previewing those? I need to know if my resin toys are going to be better, or worse. And if my R&H will be back, or squatted.
"*** The list of Forge World Flyers receiving the Aircraft keyword will be included in their rules updates on the same day that the new edition is launched."
I think that means that there will be a FAQ Day 1, not that the books will be available Day 1.
In practice, most of the aircraft rules will play very similarly to the current ones.
I don't see many people choosing to fly off their table in the movement phase since you miss out on a whole turn of shooting by doing so. That's going to be more for a desperation tactic or when you're already got the enemy pinned in a corner.
Perhaps, but if that's what they're doing why wouldn't they just add the fw flyers to the list in the brb? Because adding fw rules in a gw book would be bad somehow? And why specifically call it out in one of their little * teasers? Maybe I'm just hoping too much.
Stormonu wrote: I'd like to see a scenario or two that's like one of the missions in Space Marine - a squadron of fliers on one side being attacked by jetpack-equipped attackers and flak on the other side. Sort of a modification of the old convoy scenario, except everything has to have Fly.
Also, I guess I don't understand why on the new rules that they made it the 18+ wound model can be seen & attacked, but the reverse isn't true. How can LOS be one way?
For huge things, you need the 'head', sensors or whatever to be able to see and the guns. In much the same way that a person needs to be able to see and position their weapon to shoot - with obscuring terrain, there's enough dust, intervening walls that you can't shoot through the windows of several walls etc. Same rules for a man as a knight.
However something as big as a knight isn't obscured by a few walls in the same way a living man is, it can't duck under windows, lean around doorways and instead just fills a huge amount of space without being aware of whether something could see it or not. So if you can draw LOS to it, then you can take a shot.
Think of the 'obscured' save as things using the terrain that's more or less scaled for them, and ducking. The infantryman's pose is not as close to real life as the Knight or super heavy vehicle's pose.
There's going to be a few edge cases, but that's the gist. Plus they'd still get cover, there's some protection but if your guns can go through the walls, you know where the rest of the knight is. Vs something smaller, you're kind of guessing.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Am I the only one who noticed that the article said that the new Forge World books will be coming out at the same time as 9th? So when are they going to start previewing those? I need to know if my resin toys are going to be better, or worse. And if my R&H will be back, or squatted.
"*** The list of Forge World Flyers receiving the Aircraft keyword will be included in their rules updates on the same day that the new edition is launched."
I think that means that there will be a FAQ Day 1, not that the books will be available Day 1.
In practice, most of the aircraft rules will play very similarly to the current ones.
I don't see many people choosing to fly off their table in the movement phase since you miss out on a whole turn of shooting by doing so. That's going to be more for a desperation tactic or when you're already got the enemy pinned in a corner.
Perhaps, but if that's what they're doing why wouldn't they just add the fw flyers to the list in the brb? Because adding fw rules in a gw book would be bad somehow? And why specifically call it out in one of their little * teasers? Maybe I'm just hoping too much.
Because they probably forgot they need updating and hence will have between now an dthe release of 9th to actually try and gut all the FW indexes of any interesting rules and make them feel horrendously over pointed just in time for 9th edition and then probably still have the cheak to add 20% FW tax points increases because not codex models.
Stormonu wrote: I'd like to see a scenario or two that's like one of the missions in Space Marine - a squadron of fliers on one side being attacked by jetpack-equipped attackers and flak on the other side. Sort of a modification of the old convoy scenario, except everything has to have Fly.
Also, I guess I don't understand why on the new rules that they made it the 18+ wound model can be seen & attacked, but the reverse isn't true. How can LOS be one way?
For huge things, you need the 'head', sensors or whatever to be able to see and the guns. In much the same way that a person needs to be able to see and position their weapon to shoot - with obscuring terrain, there's enough dust, intervening walls that you can't shoot through the windows of several walls etc. Same rules for a man as a knight.
However something as big as a knight isn't obscured by a few walls in the same way a living man is, it can't duck under windows, lean around doorways and instead just fills a huge amount of space without being aware of whether something could see it or not. So if you can draw LOS to it, then you can take a shot.
Think of the 'obscured' save as things using the terrain that's more or less scaled for them, and ducking. The infantryman's pose is not as close to real life as the Knight or super heavy vehicle's pose.
There's going to be a few edge cases, but that's the gist. Plus they'd still get cover, there's some protection but if your guns can go through the walls, you know where the rest of the knight is. Vs something smaller, you're kind of guessing.
Counter Point a Knight shpuld certainly be able to find and identity where a Repulsor/leman russ's shots are coming from fairly quickly and in an active combat zone your just going to use your Titan class of weapons to level the dang building while you shoot back.
This is 40k by the time Knights and Titans take to the field anything standing afterwards is an exception.
I think of obscuring in the “camo” sense more than the invisible sense.
So obscuring terrain makes it so something can hide better, thinking of things like a normal size vehicle going hull down behind the ruins of a building.
Howesever things that are flying high in the sky, or literally just knock over buildings, are going to have a harder time hiding.
Obviously you can find fringe cases or examples around anything but I get the idea they are going for. We will need to see how super heavies interact with terrain going forward. I would like them to be less restrictive on non-fly/infantry models. That single handedly made entire unit types practically unusable.
Just seen a quick preview of the 'What's in the Box' and the glimpse of models i can see some kind of necron with what looks to be a Tachyon Arrow strapped to its wrist. It is in the image of the necrons on the front page which suggests that image is definitely the box contents and the model is likely either a new necron lord or overlord model.
Stormonu wrote: I'd like to see a scenario or two that's like one of the missions in Space Marine - a squadron of fliers on one side being attacked by jetpack-equipped attackers and flak on the other side. Sort of a modification of the old convoy scenario, except everything has to have Fly.
Also, I guess I don't understand why on the new rules that they made it the 18+ wound model can be seen & attacked, but the reverse isn't true. How can LOS be one way?
For huge things, you need the 'head', sensors or whatever to be able to see and the guns. In much the same way that a person needs to be able to see and position their weapon to shoot - with obscuring terrain, there's enough dust, intervening walls that you can't shoot through the windows of several walls etc. Same rules for a man as a knight.
However something as big as a knight isn't obscured by a few walls in the same way a living man is, it can't duck under windows, lean around doorways and instead just fills a huge amount of space without being aware of whether something could see it or not. So if you can draw LOS to it, then you can take a shot.
Think of the 'obscured' save as things using the terrain that's more or less scaled for them, and ducking. The infantryman's pose is not as close to real life as the Knight or super heavy vehicle's pose.
There's going to be a few edge cases, but that's the gist. Plus they'd still get cover, there's some protection but if your guns can go through the walls, you know where the rest of the knight is. Vs something smaller, you're kind of guessing.
That works for infantry vs knights, but explain why a repulsor executioner can see and shoot a spartan, despite the spartan being less than 5 tall, but the spartan can't see and shoot the executioner?
I also like that there is still an incentive to block a flyers path
You can't block the path. You can limit where it can stop (it can't land on top of models), but it ignores everything it passes over.
and i guess... flyers cant be attacked in CC anymore? that would make alot of sense actually
They can be attacked in CC (subject to various limitations on what model types and traits allow attacking flyers- we know other flyers can). The main thing is anyone _can_ ignore their Engagement Range when moving.
I note that when a lot of flyers with the hard to hit rule go into hovering mode, they lose some keywords and gain others.
Like the valkyrie, for example, loses "supersonic" and "hard to hit".
So its possibel that a hovering valkyrie will stop being an aircraft in the keyword sense -- and suddenly be able to hide behind terrain, suddenly be able to be attacked in melee -- even though in non-hover mode, its a rocking hard target for a grot to leap up to engage in fisticuffs with.
If, that is, GW were to continue this trend and have aircraft written as something you lose when you are not functioning as an aircraft, I guess, even though still flying.
* It's also doubly frustrating as this is supposed to be bringing the rules in to line with the fluff, The fluff has Knights, Baneblades etc taking cover behind buildings and ruins. Yes they tend to not be able to see infantry etc easily bit when they are fired upon thr dang well level the building they get shot from.
I could live with a -1 to hit etc but just not being able to shoot at those 3 Tank commanders while the smash your models off the table is the definition of unfun and gamey.
Dukeofstuff wrote: I note that when a lot of flyers with the hard to hit rule go into hovering mode, they lose some keywords and gain others.
Like the valkyrie, for example, loses "supersonic" and "hard to hit".
So its possibel that a hovering valkyrie will stop being an aircraft in the keyword sense -- and suddenly be able to hide behind terrain, suddenly be able to be attacked in melee -- even though in non-hover mode, its a rocking hard target for a grot to leap up to engage in fisticuffs with.
If, that is, GW were to continue this trend and have aircraft written as something you lose when you are not functioning as an aircraft, I guess, even though still flying.
Those aren't keywords, they're rules, after 3 years of 8th ed it would be nice if people learnt the difference. Generally speaking there is very little in the game that changes a units keywords, I strongly doubt any changes to the hovering rules that a handful of Imperial flyers have will include changing keywords, largely because that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Graphite wrote: Huh. After the trailer I was hoping for some SoBs in the box, which would have made it a definite buy. Without... not so sure.
I guess three factions (4 with a single Cadian girl ;0 ) would be a bit much plus we have had alot of Sisters models recently and getting new one shortly but yeah their prominance in the vid and general advertising was a pleasent suprise and might have people asking - so where can I get Sisters models - hopefully!
Graphite wrote: Huh. After the trailer I was hoping for some SoBs in the box, which would have made it a definite buy. Without... not so sure.
I guess three factions (4 with a single Cadian girl ;0 ) would be a bit much plus we have had alot of Sisters models recently and getting new one shortly but yeah their prominance in the vid and general advertising was a pleasent suprise and might have people asking - so where can I get Sisters models - hopefully!
the impression I get is sisters, at least for 9th edition are getting near equal billing to space marines as a poster boy army in terms of advertising. I know this is just ancadotal but sisters seems to be one of the most popular new army choices for 40k from the folks I talk to. and it's worth notiung that the basic SOB troops box was one of the first things GW sold out of. so yeah, the future for sisters is bright
The Sisters of Battle Box came up on Wednesday and was sold out again by Thursday.
So yeah, it's been crazy how popular they are. At least I have enough right now for a smaller list (not that I can get any games in right now anyways).
The sisters range has always been hugely expensive in $ to points ratios, and they just invested a lot of money in re-doing it, making it even more expensive in the process. I'm sure GW wants to get as many people playing it as they possibly can. But starter boxes are always space marines + somebody, that's just how 40k works. 40k is always "Space Marines and friends."
If the rate it sells out is anything to go by, it's probably one of their most popular armies now. I wonder if they will make a Start Collecting to go alongside the release - a Cannoness, a BSS, and a/a pair of Penitent Engine(s), I would imagine?
yukishiro1 wrote: Well, no. But that's because those were old single metal models. And even some of those are still cheaper than the new kits, incredibly.
The prices on the plastic kits are quite remarkable even by GW's normal standards. A sisters rhino is $60. It's like a bad joke.
It's not GSC acolyte hybrid level ridiculousness - nothing is GSC acolyte hybrid level ridiculousness - but it's still pretty egregious.
Previously an entire army would easily cost you more than $2000, please elaborate how many rhinos do you deem mandatory to reach such numbers with plastic kits.
Previously an entire army would easily cost you more than $2000.
how?
previously (are we talking about 2013/14 or earlier?) before the price increased a full metal Sisters Army was 600€, less if you added more vehicles and did not used the 10 model boxes but bought the individual ones
Previously an entire army would easily cost you more than $2000.
how?
previously (are we talking about 2013/14 or earlier?) before the price increased a full metal Sisters Army was 600€, less if you added more vehicles and did not used the 10 model boxes but bought the individual ones
I started collecting Sisters around 2009-2010 and they were already expensive then. There were no more boxes then, just blisters, at least in the US warehouse.
ClockworkZion wrote: The most Sisters can hope for is a Start Collecting box at the start of 9th.
It's basically guaranteed they are getting one this year. Sisters, Harlequin, Ossiarch Bonereapers, Nighthaunt, and the Stormcast's Sacrosanct Chamber are the only ones off the top of my head that will not have them once the Death Guard+Primaris stuff gets split out into SC boxes.
yukishiro1 wrote: Well, no. But that's because those were old single metal models. And even some of those are still cheaper than the new kits, incredibly.
The prices on the plastic kits are quite remarkable even by GW's normal standards. A sisters rhino is $60. It's like a bad joke.
It's not GSC acolyte hybrid level ridiculousness - nothing is GSC acolyte hybrid level ridiculousness - but it's still pretty egregious.
Previously an entire army would easily cost you more than $2000, please elaborate how many rhinos do you deem mandatory to reach such numbers with plastic kits.
Uh if you bought new in unopened OOP blisters, maybe. But who would do that? You could easily buy a full army of unpainted metal sisters minis for less than half that. And the whole thing about metal minis is that they're just as good whether the blister has been opened or not.
When GW released the new sisters kits, they took the opportunity to price them even higher than their other plastic kits.
I don't know what this has to do with the topic, though. The point was GW has every incentive to try to get people to buy a range they just came out with that is at an even more premium price point than most of their products.
ClockworkZion wrote: The most Sisters can hope for is a Start Collecting box at the start of 9th.
Or in the other starter sets. We've seen the contents for the big one, but there's a chance they'll turn up in the smaller starter packs if they do that again.
No guarantee they're just going to be cut down versions of the big one, if those sets sold well last time.
yukishiro1 wrote: Uh if you bought new in unopened OOP blisters, maybe. But who would do that? You could easily buy a full army of unpainted metal sisters minis for less than half that. And the whole thing about metal minis is that they're just as good whether the blister has been opened or not.
No, I'm talking about the blisters that GW was still selling.
I'd like to point out that you are complaining about how new unopened rhinos are too expensive and at the same time suggesting that you can buy models second hand. Seriously?
I'd like to point out I don't know why you're so annoyed that someone noted that the new Sisters plastic sets are even more expensive than GW's other plastic kits.
But if you really want to get into this for some inexplicable reason...unpainted metal minis are exactly the same whether they're in the blister or not. Plastic kits are not. And you cannot find second-hand versions of the new sisters kits anyway, because they just came out.
This is just such a truly weird thing to get a bee in your bonnet about.
Especially in this thread, where it really doesn't apply?
Anyway, I was hoping to learn more than we did about terrain in 9th edition, but hopefully it will all be clear and easy to understand when the rules are released.
Or a few days after that, when the errata and FAQs are released.
ClockworkZion wrote: The most Sisters can hope for is a Start Collecting box at the start of 9th.
Or in the other starter sets. We've seen the contents for the big one, but there's a chance they'll turn up in the smaller starter packs if they do that again.
The key with the starter is that it remains in production. Battle boxes (e.g., Forgebane) and most anything else that can be considered a starter are usually limited editions and are sold out the day that they're released.
BrianDavion wrote: the impression I get is sisters, at least for 9th edition are getting near equal billing to space marines as a poster boy army in terms of advertising.
Well, GW explicitly told us they want to have more female characters (see sig link) and they have stuck (for now) with the "No female marines" lore. I think this is the reason why we got Sisters of Battle in the trailer. Honestly, I don't mind if this means we get more Sisters of Battle, because I think Sisters of Battle are all kind of awesome. But I don't think GW is ready to put nearly enough resources into Sisters of Battle as a line as they do with marines. I don't think we are ever going to see a starter box with Sisters instead of Marines, for instance. I don't think we will see multiple Sisters of Battle codex, nor do I want that. So I expect it won't work for GW in the long run, therefore I think they will add some lore about Primaris procedure working for marines, and relegate Sisters to the background once again.
My two cents.
It's what I expect to be the Start Collecting set. I was really hoping they would have brought the Deathwatch Overkill set's GSC half back as theirs...but the numbers on the units would have been funky.
Graphite wrote: Huh. After the trailer I was hoping for some SoBs in the box, which would have made it a definite buy. Without... not so sure.
I guess three factions (4 with a single Cadian girl ;0 ) would be a bit much plus we have had alot of Sisters models recently and getting new one shortly but yeah their prominance in the vid and general advertising was a pleasent suprise and might have people asking - so where can I get Sisters models - hopefully!
Wouldn't have been four factions. Would have been two - Necrons, and Space Marines with a detachment of Sisters & Guard allies. Why not teach how allies work in the starter set?
I doubt it, not with all the changes to discourage soup armies.
However, what if Sisters and Guard are getting easy to build kits soon, like the etb Redemptor and Aggressors, which are designed to build upon the new starter box?
BrianDavion wrote: yeah and we start getting things like names, what they are etc.
I'm guessing that the things that look like Primaris Marines riding bikes will actually be Primaris Marines riding bikes.
what if they're squats cleverly posing as Marines?
but yeah I don't expect much suprises for the space marines, the necron stuff though might be intreasting. also there are some characters I'm curious about, like the "chaplain" and what looks like it could be another ancient. ifit turns out is it indeed an ancient it'll make buying last copies of DI less urgent to some people I suspect
Graphite wrote: Huh. After the trailer I was hoping for some SoBs in the box, which would have made it a definite buy. Without... not so sure.
I guess three factions (4 with a single Cadian girl ;0 ) would be a bit much plus we have had alot of Sisters models recently and getting new one shortly but yeah their prominance in the vid and general advertising was a pleasent suprise and might have people asking - so where can I get Sisters models - hopefully!
You know how they did a special version of Dark Vengeance with the extra chaplain? I’m now really hoping they do a version of the box set with an extra model of poor Cadian lass.
They could then start using her like that poor Forgeworld fella who’s always running away from horrendous monsters!
BrianDavion wrote: yeah and we start getting things like names, what they are etc.
I'm guessing that the things that look like Primaris Marines riding bikes will actually be Primaris Marines riding bikes.
what if they're squats cleverly posing as Marines?
but yeah I don't expect much suprises for the space marines, the necron stuff though might be intreasting. also there are some characters I'm curious about, like the "chaplain" and what looks like it could be another ancient. ifit turns out is it indeed an ancient it'll make buying last copies of DI less urgent to some people I suspect
What if they're squigs?
What's worse for me than *just* another price rise is the loss of some discounts during the GW closure PLUS the rise. I make a lot more money, too, but it feels different buying more expensive stuff. If everything Sisters and AdMech was 5-10€ cheaper I'd have small allied forces if both*. Now the only things I bought this quarter are a box of Gretchin and the Flashgitz KT.
The new starter is super attractive to me, though, I'm a sucker for starter sets. This time I might give away the Necrons as an early Christmas gift, but bigger/newer Marine bikes is something I was thirsty for even as a little kid getting into Warhammer. The current bikes were new-ish back then, but they were a far cry from the artwork on the second GW advertisement magazine thingy I had.
*unbuilt, like most of the stuff I got before Corona hit and made most people in medicine work insane hours. Or even more insane ones, at least
Graphite wrote: Huh. After the trailer I was hoping for some SoBs in the box, which would have made it a definite buy. Without... not so sure.
I guess three factions (4 with a single Cadian girl ;0 ) would be a bit much plus we have had alot of Sisters models recently and getting new one shortly but yeah their prominance in the vid and general advertising was a pleasent suprise and might have people asking - so where can I get Sisters models - hopefully!
You know how they did a special version of Dark Vengeance with the extra chaplain? I’m now really hoping they do a version of the box set with an extra model of poor Cadian lass.
They could then start using her like that poor Forgeworld fella who’s always running away from horrendous monsters!
There was the box set with Ultramarines pilot you had to rescue as well
I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
I also like that there is still an incentive to block a flyers path
You can't block the path. You can limit where it can stop (it can't land on top of models), but it ignores everything it passes over.
and i guess... flyers cant be attacked in CC anymore? that would make alot of sense actually
They can be attacked in CC (subject to various limitations on what model types and traits allow attacking flyers- we know other flyers can). The main thing is anyone _can_ ignore their Engagement Range when moving.
well that is literally what i meant^^ you can still position your models in a way to force the aircraft not to do something. in 8th it would be simply destroyed, in 9th they forgo a shooting phase. good mechanic in my book.
as far as arcraft and CC goes... you're speculating as much as i do. but since models can stop in engagment range, without beeing actually engaged, its a hint that aircraft maybe not able to be charged. The only hard evidence we get is that they arent able to charge, but that maybe a rule to stop aircraft that can also hover, from attacking when coming from reserve. there was something like that in previous editions... (hive tyrants not beeing able to charge when going from gliding to swooping)
Just realised I have about $140 in store credit at one of the two places I regularly buy stuff. Add that to the 20% discount and I think I just sorted the new starter out for a fraction of the price. Fingers crossed it contains boards like the KT and Warcry starters.
BrianDavion wrote: but yeah I don't expect much suprises for the space marines, the necron stuff though might be intreasting. also there are some characters I'm curious about, like the "chaplain" and what looks like it could be another ancient. ifit turns out is it indeed an ancient it'll make buying last copies of DI less urgent to some people I suspect
I want it to put to bed the idea that we're getting new Immortals. And I want to know what that tall spindly thing is.
NinthMusketeer wrote: We all know the best part will be the names of these new units. GW is excellent at naming their units.
Have we not yet reached peak Adjective Nounverb yet?
BlaxicanX wrote: I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
She might feature as a partly desintegrated guardswoman dying, face down in the mud on the base of the Silent King.
I thought that was kind of the dark humourus implication of the regimental Standard article.
I also like that there is still an incentive to block a flyers path
You can't block the path. You can limit where it can stop (it can't land on top of models), but it ignores everything it passes over.
and i guess... flyers cant be attacked in CC anymore? that would make alot of sense actually
They can be attacked in CC (subject to various limitations on what model types and traits allow attacking flyers- we know other flyers can). The main thing is anyone _can_ ignore their Engagement Range when moving.
well that is literally what i meant^^ you can still position your models in a way to force the aircraft not to do something. in 8th it would be simply destroyed, in 9th they forgo a shooting phase. good mechanic in my book.
as far as arcraft and CC goes... you're speculating as much as i do. but since models can stop in engagment range, without beeing actually engaged, its a hint that aircraft maybe not able to be charged. The only hard evidence we get is that they arent able to charge, but that maybe a rule to stop aircraft that can also hover, from attacking when coming from reserve. there was something like that in previous editions... (hive tyrants not beeing able to charge when going from gliding to swooping)
Heroic Intervention in the preview specifically calls out that it DOESN'T ignore the aircraft if the unit HI-ing can fly. 99% You can still charge aircraft with fly units.
BlaxicanX wrote: I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
No, just no. What the guard needs is new infantry models and i am sick and tired of us only getting special edition commanders (comissar lady, both catachans, marbo...) we have enough commanders already.
BlaxicanX wrote: I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
No, just no. What the guard needs is new infantry models and i am sick and tired of us only getting special edition commanders (comissar lady, both catachans, marbo...) we have enough commanders already.
be carefull what you wish for, you might get 7 lasguns and monopose for 10£ more / 10 dudes and HWT's with less options but a new great heavy weapon that is only 1/3 teams for an additional 10£ / 3 hwts.
yukishiro1 wrote: I'd like to point out I don't know why you're so annoyed that someone noted that the new Sisters plastic sets are even more expensive than GW's other plastic kits.
But if you really want to get into this for some inexplicable reason...unpainted metal minis are exactly the same whether they're in the blister or not. Plastic kits are not. And you cannot find second-hand versions of the new sisters kits anyway, because they just came out.
This is just such a truly weird thing to get a bee in your bonnet about.
Well second hand just check plastic is it assembled well or not. If yes then no difference to metal
BlaxicanX wrote: I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
No, just no. What the guard needs is new infantry models and i am sick and tired of us only getting special edition commanders (comissar lady, both catachans, marbo...) we have enough commanders already.
Meme argument. Games workshop has the means to do both. If we can (and will) get 20 more marine variants they can pump out a new special character without slowing down the production of other lines.
BlaxicanX wrote: I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
No, just no. What the guard needs is new infantry models and i am sick and tired of us only getting special edition commanders (comissar lady, both catachans, marbo...) we have enough commanders already.
be carefull what you wish for, you might get 7 lasguns and monopose for 10£ more / 10 dudes and HWT's with less options but a new great heavy weapon that is only 1/3 teams for an additional 10£ / 3 hwts.
As opposed to currently when we have a 10 man box with only two of our special weapons (the worst ones) and a 5 man box for the same price with one of each of the other special weapons?
BlaxicanX wrote: I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
No, just no. What the guard needs is new infantry models and i am sick and tired of us only getting special edition commanders (comissar lady, both catachans, marbo...) we have enough commanders already.
Meme argument. Games workshop has the means to do both. If we can (and will) get 20 more marine variants they can pump out a new special character without slowing down the production of other lines.
It has the means to do both, doesn’t mean they will do it for a faction other then marines
Kaneda88 wrote: As opposed to currently when we have a 10 man box with only two of our special weapons (the worst ones) and a 5 man box for the same price with one of each of the other special weapons?
Like he said, be careful what you wish for. The last thing you want is a box of wonderfully dynamic-posed Cadians that look amazing... until there's 10 of each dynamically posted mini, 'cause GW went and make 'em all mono-pose. Then it starts to look weird, no matter how good the individual new sculpts might be.
BlaxicanX wrote: I would be kind of disappointed if the Cadian girl didn't end up getting at least a model, considering that not only did she feature in the cinematic but in the Guard Standard or whatever it's called, as well.
A model, and maybe some rules as a tricked out Platoon Commander or Veteran Sergeant would be really cool.
No, just no. What the guard needs is new infantry models and i am sick and tired of us only getting special edition commanders (comissar lady, both catachans, marbo...) we have enough commanders already.
Graphite wrote: Huh. After the trailer I was hoping for some SoBs in the box, which would have made it a definite buy. Without... not so sure.
I guess three factions (4 with a single Cadian girl ;0 ) would be a bit much plus we have had alot of Sisters models recently and getting new one shortly but yeah their prominance in the vid and general advertising was a pleasent suprise and might have people asking - so where can I get Sisters models - hopefully!
You know how they did a special version of Dark Vengeance with the extra chaplain? I’m now really hoping they do a version of the box set with an extra model of poor Cadian lass.
They could then start using her like that poor Forgeworld fella who’s always running away from horrendous monsters!
That's Johann, and he's not from Forge World. He's included in the Giant kit.
Kaneda88 wrote: As opposed to currently when we have a 10 man box with only two of our special weapons (the worst ones) and a 5 man box for the same price with one of each of the other special weapons?
Like he said, be careful what you wish for. The last thing you want is a box of wonderfully dynamic-posed Cadians that look amazing... until there's 10 of each dynamically posted mini, 'cause GW went and make 'em all mono-pose. Then it starts to look weird, no matter how good the individual new sculpts might be.
Also pricehike, i played around with GSC , spitballing ideas for an infantry and ad hoc army mostly footsloggers, the pricing for the GSC squads pretty much priced me out If there ever is a new guadsquad then expect it to be in that price lot and that lot hurts.
TBF though that's because GSC is a horde army , which will always be more expensive to build.
I'm really intrigued by the idea of boards in the box. Maybe they drop the full book from the starter, just include core rules or a version of it, and chuck the boards in. Boards plus minis plus full rules I can see ending up as a dark uprising style price.
TwilightSparkles wrote: TBF though that's because GSC is a horde army , which will always be more expensive to build.
I'm really intrigued by the idea of boards in the box. Maybe they drop the full book from the starter, just include core rules or a version of it, and chuck the boards in. Boards plus minis plus full rules I can see ending up as a dark uprising style price.
Maybe a few sheets of cardboard terrain that could be folded and slotted together too? It would be odd to just have completely empty boards.
And I remain unconvinced. "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
And I remain unconvinced. "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
I never said at release, but I think it's pretty clear that both ranges are going to come shortly after 9th with a codex and new range options.
You can remain unconvinced, but both these are going to be released before the end of the year.
Mounting either a twin accelerator autocannon or twin las-talon, and crewed by one of the Emperor’s finest, your enemies will think twice about taking on a Firestrike Servo-turret. Hold the line while the more mobile elements of your army leap into the fray!
Fitted with advanced optics and wielding gauss destructors and enmitic exterminators, Lokhusts are programmed to erase the heaviest opposition. Those powerful jets make them highly mobile, and the long reach of their weapons means they’ll be taking out their quarry and making for an especially resilient target.
But even those big guns look tiny next to this one!
The colossal Doomsday Blaster mounted to the back of these leggy constructs can be fired on the move, or they can remain stationary to unleash its full cataclysmic potential. If anyone gets too close, auxiliary twin gauss flayers add a little extra hurt.
Keep in mind that this is a "Launch Set" and will be limited edition.
I can tell you from past experience, these good ones sell out VERY quick. You would be served by putting in preorders the moment they come out, or with your FLGS if you want to guarantee a copy.
ClockworkZion wrote: "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
And I remain unconvinced. "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
I never said at release, but I think it's pretty clear that both ranges are going to come shortly after 9th with a codex and new range options.
You can remain unconvinced, but both these are going to be released before the end of the year.
I don't think we'll see them before the last quarter of this year at the soonest to be honest. I'm more willing to bet on them being early 2021 if anything.
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Justyn wrote: When did they announce a video game crossover Primaris Kart? Wow that is an ugly and stupid model.
I think it's a Primaris version of the old Attack Bike. Only chunkier to support the extra mass of the Primaris, and a bigger gun.
And I remain unconvinced. "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
I never said at release, but I think it's pretty clear that both ranges are going to come shortly after 9th with a codex and new range options.
You can remain unconvinced, but both these are going to be released before the end of the year.
I don't think we'll see them before the last quarter of this year at the soonest to be honest. I'm more willing to bet on them being early 2021 if anything.
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Justyn wrote: When did they announce a video game crossover Primaris Kart? Wow that is an ugly and stupid model.
I think it's a Primaris version of the old Attack Bike. Only chunkier to support the extra mass of the Primaris, and a bigger gun.
I don't think they have ever previewed stuff to this extent, to have it release more than 6 months later. I just don't see anyway that it will be in 2021.
Are there any SM light vehicles with actual front armor? Land speeders had windowless roll cages, land speeder storms were worse, attack bikes just had bike windshields and an incredibly vulnerable sidecar, dreadknight, centurion, etc.
And I remain unconvinced. "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
I never said at release, but I think it's pretty clear that both ranges are going to come shortly after 9th with a codex and new range options.
You can remain unconvinced, but both these are going to be released before the end of the year.
I don't think we'll see them before the last quarter of this year at the soonest to be honest. I'm more willing to bet on them being early 2021 if anything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Justyn wrote: When did they announce a video game crossover Primaris Kart? Wow that is an ugly and stupid model.
I think it's a Primaris version of the old Attack Bike. Only chunkier to support the extra mass of the Primaris, and a bigger gun.
I don't think they have ever previewed stuff to this extent, to have it release more than 6 months later. I just don't see anyway that it will be in 2021.
2 months on the short end, 5 months on the long end to get to the end of the year.
Then again, who knows? Maybe they're accelerating the release schedule for 40k to make up for the shutdown earlier this year.
Sasori wrote: Keep in mind that this is a "Launch Set" and will be limited edition.
I can tell you from past experience, these good ones sell out VERY quick. You would be served by putting in preorders the moment they come out, or with your FLGS if you want to guarantee a copy.
Haha GW. You gotta hand it to them, their ability to manipulate people with false scarcity is remarkable.
And I remain unconvinced. "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
Your just being stubborn. They held up the booklet with data slates for both sides in the set and it wasn't the necron cover art we has previously seen leaked with the Scorpehk destoryer on the front.
There will definitely be a new marine and necron codex within the month of the new edition.
Haha GW. You gotta hand it to them, their ability to manipulate people with false scarcity is remarkable.
They specifically state in the stream that there are plenty of these kits to go around. It's only limited in the sense that they won't sell it forever.
Haha GW. You gotta hand it to them, their ability to manipulate people with false scarcity is remarkable.
They specifically state in the stream that there are plenty of these kits to go around. It's only limited in the sense that they won't sell it forever.
Well of course. Even GW isn't silly enough to actually limit availability of a release set for its new edition. It's a testament to their past marketing that they can make people panic-buy a new edition set even while specifically telling them there's plenty, just by calling it "limited."
So the giveaway makes me think it'll be 120 gbp But it being a "launch" set with a full art cover rather than a starter almost makes me think they'll try to recoup all of their lost revenue from their factory shutdown with this one product. Even with the "half retail" talk and common msrp of 20 pound characters and 25-35 pound units, things add up fast. It could still easily be over 240 gbp and be "half retail" of the later released full kits + rulebook.
By limited it means that it sounds like they've produced X and won't make any more sets. So once X is done for there won't be any more for sale. As opposed to regular starter sets which are produced continually until the end of the edition as stocks demand.
So yes there is a limited number and heck considering you also get a limited edition rulebook and could likely sell both halves of the models to recoup the cost of the box; then if you're willing to put the legwork in you can get a free rule book.
All you have to do it sell off the necron and marine halves which will likely be pretty easy to do.
Yeah that did seem pretty silly, but every edition has some of that kind of junk. I mean look at that model, it looks like they mocked it up in an hour using parts they had lying around from other stuff.
so if the 120 value of the mystery box giveaway is indeed this set, what if that value is based on the cost at standard wholesale discount? the fine print didn't say 120 MSRP, just value and since it was fine print legaleze, then wouldn't the value be what they expense for accounting reasons as part of the marketing promotion rather than the retail cost?
Sasori wrote: Keep in mind that this is a "Launch Set" and will be limited edition.
I can tell you from past experience, these good ones sell out VERY quick. You would be served by putting in preorders the moment they come out, or with your FLGS if you want to guarantee a copy.
Haha GW. You gotta hand it to them, their ability to manipulate people with false scarcity is remarkable.
Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
Chamberlain wrote: so if the 120 value of the mystery box giveaway is indeed this set, what if that value is based on the cost at standard wholesale discount? the fine print didn't say 120 MSRP, just value and since it was fine print legaleze, then wouldn't the value be what they expense for accounting reasons as part of the marketing promotion rather than the retail cost?
If memory serves, UK law means you need to quote the RRP?
So, if the assumption is correct, it’ll be £120 in the U.K.
Now......
How GW chooses to price it elsewhere isn’t necessarily consistent.
And I remain unconvinced. "Reinforcements Incoming" doesn't really give us any sort of timeline on when to expect things. GW has shown they can be all over the map when it comes to releases, ranging from right after making an announcement, to months later.
Your just being stubborn. They held up the booklet with data slates for both sides in the set and it wasn't the necron cover art we has previously seen leaked with the Scorpehk destoryer on the front.
There will definitely be a new marine and necron codex within the month of the new edition.
True, I am a touch stubborn. This is also not a true starter set, so I don't know, I guess I'll believe it when I see it?
Chamberlain wrote: so if the 120 value of the mystery box giveaway is indeed this set, what if that value is based on the cost at standard wholesale discount? the fine print didn't say 120 MSRP, just value and since it was fine print legaleze, then wouldn't the value be what they expense for accounting reasons as part of the marketing promotion rather than the retail cost?
If memory serves, UK law means you need to quote the RRP?
So, if the assumption is correct, it’ll be £120 in the U.K.
Now......
How GW chooses to price it elsewhere isn’t necessarily consistent.
I hope that it ends up being £120. I will happily get some necrons then. If it's £200+ then I won't touch this. So I hope you are remembering correctly about the prize value being retail by law.
I think the Primaris buggy suffers a lot from the toylike colour and is one of those models that will suddenly look amazing in White Scars, Black Templar or Salamanders colours.
Sasori wrote: Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
Battle boxes have always been 'While Stocks Last' and not just for Age of Sigmar. 40K has had their fair share (e.g., Tooth and Claw, Death Masque, Forgebane, etc.).
lord_blackfang wrote: I think the Primaris buggy suffers a lot from the toylike colour and is one of those models that will suddenly look amazing in White Scars, Black Templar or Salamanders colours.
Agreed. Add some battle damage and weathering and it could be less Mariokart and more grimdark.
lord_blackfang wrote: I think the Primaris buggy suffers a lot from the toylike colour and is one of those models that will suddenly look amazing in White Scars, Black Templar or Salamanders colours.
So basically like every release for Marines it only looks bad because it's Ultramarines toyetic blue? Sounds about right.
Sasori wrote: Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
Battle boxes have always been 'While Stocks Last' and not just for Age of Sigmar. 40K has had their fair share (e.g., Tooth and Claw, Death Masque, Forgebane, etc.).
I am well aware, I am not sure what your point is. I was just using AOS as an example.
I kinda want to buy the buggy and use it as an ork buggy driven by space marine slaves, with grot masters controlling them, just to take the piss out of the whole space marine thing.
lord_blackfang wrote: I think the Primaris buggy suffers a lot from the toylike colour and is one of those models that will suddenly look amazing in White Scars, Black Templar or Salamanders colours.
So basically like every release for Marines it only looks bad because it's Ultramarines toyetic blue? Sounds about right.
Yep, even the Storm Talon is almost passable in those colours and I can't think of any other SM models that are proper bad when painted right.
Sasori wrote: Keep in mind that this is a "Launch Set" and will be limited edition.
I can tell you from past experience, these good ones sell out VERY quick. You would be served by putting in preorders the moment they come out, or with your FLGS if you want to guarantee a copy.
Haha GW. You gotta hand it to them, their ability to manipulate people with false scarcity is remarkable.
Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
This is only really true if you primarily purchase online or in certain very high traffic areas like SoCal, and of course very low traffic areas where you might only have 1 flgs. The SoB box set sold out worldwide like 4 times and we still had them sitting on the shelves taking up space locally.
Sasori wrote: Keep in mind that this is a "Launch Set" and will be limited edition.
I can tell you from past experience, these good ones sell out VERY quick. You would be served by putting in preorders the moment they come out, or with your FLGS if you want to guarantee a copy.
Haha GW. You gotta hand it to them, their ability to manipulate people with false scarcity is remarkable.
Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
This is only really true if you primarily purchase online or in certain very high traffic areas like SoCal, and of course very low traffic areas where you might only have 1 flgs. The SoB box set sold out worldwide like 4 times and we still had them sitting on the shelves taking up space locally.
For the Soros Box, we had some people here that bought several of them and treid to re-sell them after they were sold out
first treid to get more than the original price but were not able to sell them for 70% MSRP after a while
Sasori wrote: Keep in mind that this is a "Launch Set" and will be limited edition.
I can tell you from past experience, these good ones sell out VERY quick. You would be served by putting in preorders the moment they come out, or with your FLGS if you want to guarantee a copy.
Haha GW. You gotta hand it to them, their ability to manipulate people with false scarcity is remarkable.
Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
This is only really true if you primarily purchase online or in certain very high traffic areas like SoCal, and of course very low traffic areas where you might only have 1 flgs. The SoB box set sold out worldwide like 4 times and we still had them sitting on the shelves taking up space locally.
Well, Anecdotally, I've got several shops nearby, and most limited edition sets were sold out very quickly. You were not able to find any of sets like Looncurse and Carrion empire anywhere unless you had pre-ordered it.
Again, it's your wallet and ya'll can do what you want with it. I am simply making the statement that if you want to guarantee your copy, you shouldn't wait long.
puma713 wrote: Friend in the business told me to expect to pay $250US for the box.
Sounds about right for GW pricing. Blood of the Phoenix was $230 and had significantly less stuff, most of which was not even new.
2 of these boxes will get you two full armies at around $425 when factoring in online discounts. That's basically a steal when you consider how much it costs to build an army these days.
I can't help but think that a manned turret that doesn't look like it can easily be redeployed or left to it's own devices really doesn't fit the the whole rapid strike force element that Marines are meant to embody. Tarantulas at least were automated and could be quickly dropped from altitude and forgotten.
Actually, I can’t wait to see what GSC players do with this kit.
As a GSC player myself I can tell you I'll do nothing
Why would I when the Ridge runner already exists and blows thing thing out of the water aesthetically?
My thoughts exactly upon reading that comment. WHat lunatic would take this over a Ridgerunner?
Wow, feth me, right? I belong to a kitbash group on FB and people are always looking out for interesting conversions. I thought GSC could make one out of this, but I apologize if I have offended all of you GSC players out there.
Wow, feth me, right? I belong to a kitbash group on FB and people are always looking out for interesting conversions. I thought GSC could make one out of this, but I apologize if I have offended all of you GSC players out there.
To reduce awkwardness I'll accept your apology but this is nothing more than an act of politeness on my part.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I can't help but think that a manned turret that doesn't look like it can easily be redeployed or left to it's own devices really doesn't fit the the whole rapid strike force element that Marines are meant to embody. Tarantulas at least were automated and could be quickly dropped from altitude and forgotten.
It looks like they forgot Suppressors exist. I don't blame them, there are a lot of units packed into the SM codex, adding another 10 or so to the ~76 datasheets that exist in the base Codex already means they're going to lose track of at least a couple. I wonder if they'll stop if they break 100.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I can't help but think that a manned turret that doesn't look like it can easily be redeployed or left to it's own devices really doesn't fit the the whole rapid strike force element that Marines are meant to embody. Tarantulas at least were automated and could be quickly dropped from altitude and forgotten.
It looks like they forgot Suppressors exist. I don't blame them, there are a lot of units packed into the SM codex, adding another 10 or so to the ~76 datasheets that exist in the base Codex already means they're going to lose track of at least a couple. I wonder if they'll stop if they break 100.
I think it's an indication that the old marines will eventually be going the way of the dodo. How many sheets do we lose if the old marines are phased out?
Push fit is terrible, I really hope this isn't an indication they're going more in that direction for new model releases for 40k.
Finally when it seemed like they had ditched failcast and realized that multi-part plastic is the way to go.
It's like a rule of the universe that GW has to mess up their kits at least once an edition with some new way to /fail at kit building that nobody asked for.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I can't help but think that a manned turret that doesn't look like it can easily be redeployed or left to it's own devices really doesn't fit the the whole rapid strike force element that Marines are meant to embody. Tarantulas at least were automated and could be quickly dropped from altitude and forgotten.
It looks like they forgot Suppressors exist. I don't blame them, there are a lot of units packed into the SM codex, adding another 10 or so to the ~76 datasheets that exist in the base Codex already means they're going to lose track of at least a couple. I wonder if they'll stop if they break 100.
I think it's an indication that the old marines will eventually be going the way of the dodo. How many sheets do we lose if the old marines are phased out?
I find that analogy funny because dodo's were also relatively squat and derpy looking.
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yukishiro1 wrote: Push fit is terrible, I really hope this isn't an indication they're going more in that direction for new model releases for 40k.
Finally when it seemed like they had ditched failcast and realized that multi-part plastic is the way to go.
It's like a rule of the universe that GW has to mess up their kits at least once an edition with some new way to /fail at kit building that nobody asked for.
No need to stress yourself, that is just standard practice for new edition starters. It has been that way for a while now, and has not interrupted the release of normal kits.
I hope not. Those assault intercessors make me so sad. Look at how they've tried to cover up the fact that there's only five poses by the way they've shot it, yet failed; even a unit of 10 looks formulaic and repetitive. Not even the heads can be posed. Sad!
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I can't help but think that a manned turret that doesn't look like it can easily be redeployed or left to it's own devices really doesn't fit the the whole rapid strike force element that Marines are meant to embody. Tarantulas at least were automated and could be quickly dropped from altitude and forgotten.
It looks like they forgot Suppressors exist. I don't blame them, there are a lot of units packed into the SM codex, adding another 10 or so to the ~76 datasheets that exist in the base Codex already means they're going to lose track of at least a couple. I wonder if they'll stop if they break 100.
It could be they're intended for static defense like the Tarantula sentry gun hence the heavier gun and Techmarine gunner.
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yukishiro1 wrote: Push fit is terrible, I really hope this isn't an indication they're going more in that direction for new model releases for 40k.
Finally when it seemed like they had ditched failcast and realized that multi-part plastic is the way to go.
It's like a rule of the universe that GW has to mess up their kits at least once an edition with some new way to /fail at kit building that nobody asked for.
GW has a history of using pushfit for releasea like the Indomitus box. It's not indicative of anything.
yukishiro1 wrote: I hope not. Those assault intercessors make me so sad. Look at how they've tried to cover up the fact that there's only five poses by the way they've shot it, yet failed; even a unit of 10 looks formulaic and repetitive. Not even the heads can be posed. Sad!
Of course the heads can be posed. And reposing marines is super easy anyway.
yukishiro1 wrote: I hope not. Those assault intercessors make me so sad. Look at how they've tried to cover up the fact that there's only five poses by the way they've shot it, yet failed; even a unit of 10 looks formulaic and repetitive. Not even the heads can be posed. Sad!
Of course the heads can be posed.
Then why are none of the heads posed in their stock photo of the unit of 10? It's literally two of each model. The heads are absolutely identical in orientation.
Moreover, if you can pose the heads, it isn't push fit. There's no way to make push-fit you can pose, unless you did something really fancy and put the heads on rotators, which clearly is not the case there.
Didn't they have some ork racing game a while back that flopped? Maybe it's a space marine release for that. After all, if your specialist game flops, just add marines and maybe it won't flop any more.
Then why are none of the heads posed in their stock photo of the unit of 10? It's literally two of each model. The heads are absolutely identical in orientation.
Moreover, if you can pose the heads, it isn't push fit. There's no way to make push-fit you can pose, unless you did something really fancy and put the heads on rotators, which clearly is not the case there.
The 'really fancy' thing is called 'buying a knife.'
Looking at the ridgerunner, converting it to the new cart looks to be pretty easy. Replace stubbers with bolt rifles, swap the heavy. Either use a closed hatch or stick a marine in there. Guy on the back optional.
If the rules for it are decent, I think I have a plan to get one to the table.
yukishiro1 wrote: I hope not. Those assault intercessors make me so sad. Look at how they've tried to cover up the fact that there's only five poses by the way they've shot it, yet failed; even a unit of 10 looks formulaic and repetitive. Not even the heads can be posed. Sad!
Of course the heads can be posed.
Then why are none of the heads posed in their stock photo of the unit of 10? It's literally two of each model. The heads are absolutely identical in orientation.
Moreover, if you can pose the heads, it isn't push fit. There's no way to make push-fit you can pose, unless you did something really fancy and put the heads on rotators, which clearly is not the case there.
You could just clip the heads off and turn them. This isn't exactly pewter model coversion territory.
Really hope the multipart kit gets dropped not long after. It’s super annoying the big box doesn’t use the same mode. So inefficient from a manufacturing point
dogfender wrote: Really hope the multipart kit gets dropped not long after. It’s super annoying the big box doesn’t use the same mode. So inefficient from a manufacturing point
I'm not sure I'd agree - Shadowspear for example was a pretty efficient use of monopose minis. GW got both a box set and 2 SC out of the same molds.
And I can easily seem them going for a similar plan going forwards.
Then why are none of the heads posed in their stock photo of the unit of 10? It's literally two of each model. The heads are absolutely identical in orientation.
Moreover, if you can pose the heads, it isn't push fit. There's no way to make push-fit you can pose, unless you did something really fancy and put the heads on rotators, which clearly is not the case there.
The 'really fancy' thing is called 'buying a knife.'
Ah yes, the old "anything can be posed if you cut it up" argument. Always very convincing.
But I'm just glad we all now agree the heads can't be posed without modifying the kit.
Pretty excited for this, I was leaning towards splitting the box with someone, but after getting a good look at all the sculpts, I'm going to take the opportunity to revamp my Salamanders.
The new Marine stuff is cool, I really dig the bikes and the assault marines a lot. The Eradicators seem neat, I'm curious to know if it's only meltas, or if they have other options (thought I saw lascannons in another pic).
The new buggy is awesome! I get some serious lunar recon type vibes. Looks like the design borrows inspiration from the NASA lunar rover, which for me is a plus! The turret thing is really awesome, I foresee some sick narrative play in the future with those!
I'm sorry but I just don't see the similarity to Mario Kart. and those who think there is a similarity are just looking to bash and make absurd comparisons
Haha, mate, you're trying too hard there. The comparisons are obvious. No need to be so defensive. If you didn't think "mario kart" when you saw that, it's you that's the odd one. Even GW themselves will be joking about it within a couple days if their marketing department has anything to do with it.
It's not even the shape of the model, though it's that too. It's the pose the marine driver is sitting in. Something about it just screams Mario Kart 64.
Sasori wrote: Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
Battle boxes have always been 'While Stocks Last' and not just for Age of Sigmar. 40K has had their fair share (e.g., Tooth and Claw, Death Masque, Forgebane, etc.).
I am well aware, I am not sure what your point is. I was just using AOS as an example.
That it's not really a new strategy for Games Workshop in general or Age of Sigmar specifically.
yeah, the Batmobile has similar front wheels, and thats all that is similar, while the whole driver part and looks like from a cart and the "toon" style fits Mario Cart
yeah, the Batmobile has similar front wheels, and thats all that is similar, while the whole driver part and looks like from a cart and the "toon" style fits Mario Cart
It has similar wheels, it's contours are the same and it's armoured.
The only similarity with Mario Kart is the sloped body in front of the driver and the square position of the wheels.
Seems to me it's more like the Batmobile, and it's you guys trying too hard.
Much too square if that's what they were going for. The squareness and the orientation of the driver is what makes it totally Mario Kart. I don't know what they were inspired by, but they created something that it only took the internet 30 seconds to decide was Mario 40Kart, and that speaks for itself.
BTW, looking at the Batmobile, I notice that its front wheels are much closer together than the rear wheels. I think doing the same would improve the look of the marine buggy. It would make it seem more dynamic and the front wouldn't have so much open space.
Sasori wrote: Well, it worked with several of the AoS boxsets. They sold out very quickly, even though they stated they had bumped up their production. Most didn't even survive the weekend they went up for preorder.
It's your wallet and your choice what to do. I'm just saying if you for sure want one, you should put in a preorder for it.
Battle boxes have always been 'While Stocks Last' and not just for Age of Sigmar. 40K has had their fair share (e.g., Tooth and Claw, Death Masque, Forgebane, etc.).
I am well aware, I am not sure what your point is. I was just using AOS as an example.
That it's not really a new strategy for Games Workshop in general or Age of Sigmar specifically.
When did I say it was? I still don't know what the point has been in you quoting me on this. I never said this was new strategy or something innovative. I just said that it works, as provided a few examples of it. Which brings back to my point about if you wanted to guarantee yourselves a copy you should probably preorder it, and clarifying that it was not a starter set.
Then why are none of the heads posed in their stock photo of the unit of 10? It's literally two of each model. The heads are absolutely identical in orientation.
Moreover, if you can pose the heads, it isn't push fit. There's no way to make push-fit you can pose, unless you did something really fancy and put the heads on rotators, which clearly is not the case there.
The 'really fancy' thing is called 'buying a knife.'
Ah yes, the old "anything can be posed if you cut it up" argument. Always very convincing.
But I'm just glad we all now agree the heads can't be posed without modifying the kit.
There is a difference between being completely unposable and bring posable with a small bit of effort.
I mean we're not talking the push fit Helbrute here
Automatically Appended Next Post: Can people spoiler their memes at least? This site gets hard to read on mobile with massive images stretching the page out.
Oh I don't disagree, if you want you can cut up those intercessors and repose them. The point was simply that the kit doesn't allow it. The fact that there are ways to work around the limitations of push-fit doesn't mean it isn't a bad choice for how to make kits.
As long as it doesn't become standard I don't really care. If for whatever reason they insist on doing it on starter sets meh, whatever.
yukishiro1 wrote: Oh I don't disagree, if you want you can cut up those intercessors and repose them. The point was simply that the kit doesn't allow it. The fact that there are ways to work around the limitations of push-fit doesn't mean it isn't a bad choice for how to make kits.
As long as it doesn't become standard I don't really care. If for whatever reason they insist on doing it on starter sets meh, whatever.
Push fit seems to be cheaper for them for limited run releases. I don't know how it all works, but I'm guessing it lets them reduce sprue count and get more into a box with less weight and plastic.
I think it's more about the theory that they are "friendlier" to "new gamers" and the boxes are designed to get new people into the hobby.
Though there's always been something really weird about that rationale when applied to unpainted plastic. 90% of the time in getting miniatures ready to play is painting them, not assembly. It seems like a tacit acknowledgment that lots of people aren't interested in the painting part of the hobby and see it as a chore - in which case, why not just go all the way and supply them with basic colors already applied?
Whoever pointed out that all the new necron have battle damage, I hate you
I get that it makes sense on the warriors. Since the new(?) lore states that their reanimation protocols aren't as great as the more important members. But all these guys have it. But previous models are all in pristine condition.
Even the newest necron model, the cryptek with canoptek cloak, is battle damage free. Maybe it has something to do with the lore of the set and these guys are a damaged Tomb World or something?
Pushfit is harder to assemble, the pegs are a very tight fit and can jam, bend or break with the force of pushing them in. Shaving the peg thin enough to be a clean fit (and ideally take glue) requires a sharp hobby knife unsuited to young kids.
changemod wrote: Pushfit is harder to assemble, the pegs are a very tight fit and can jam, bend or break with the force of pushing them in. Shaving the peg thin enough to be a clean fit (and ideally take glue) requires a sharp hobby knife unsuited to young kids.
I always clip mine short and glue the seam instead.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thinling about the ATV, I almost think the gunner should be in a bucket seat in the front while the driver is behind him.
Crimson wrote: BTW, looking at the Batmobile, I notice that its front wheels are much closer together than the rear wheels. I think doing the same would improve the look of the marine buggy. It would make it seem more dynamic and the front wouldn't have so much open space.
If it's supposed to be inspired by the Tumbler batmobile, I'm sorry but that is an epic level of fail.
It actually carries on a rather disappointing trend that appaeared with the Space Camino, where the front and back of the model look like they were designed by different people.
changemod wrote: Pushfit is harder to assemble, the pegs are a very tight fit and can jam, bend or break with the force of pushing them in. Shaving the peg thin enough to be a clean fit (and ideally take glue) requires a sharp hobby knife unsuited to young kids.
Absolutely. It's not really easier at all. But they seem convinced it is, or you wouldn't see them use it on all their "starter" sets. Not even GW is so cheap that they'd really create a whole new set of molds just to try to compress a little more into a box to save on shipping.
Mind you, I'm not convinced it actually even does save space. I'd have to get some sprues and compare. If anything, I would think the bigger pieces that are required for push-fit would reduce the efficiency of the packaging, not increase it.
changemod wrote: Pushfit is harder to assemble, the pegs are a very tight fit and can jam, bend or break with the force of pushing them in. Shaving the peg thin enough to be a clean fit (and ideally take glue) requires a sharp hobby knife unsuited to young kids.
Absolutely. It's not really easier at all. But they seem convinced it is, or you wouldn't see them use it on all their "starter" sets. Not even GW is so cheap that they'd really create a whole new set of molds just to try to compress a little more into a box to save on shipping.
Mind you, I'm not convinced it actually even does save space. I'd have to get some sprues and compare. If anything, I would think the bigger pieces that are required for push-fit would reduce the efficiency of the packaging, not increase it.
Less extra parts is a big factor. Look at the Primaris in Dark Imperium versus their actual boxes. Their is like a third more parts in the full size kits.
I still don't get what you mean. Orientation would refer to the direction the driver is facing.
Sorry, I assumed you were just being sarcastic and understood the point but didn't want to admit it.
Orientation is in three dimensions. The thing that makes it look like a go-cart is that the driver is so low to the ground that he looks like he's orientated the way a go-cart rider is, with their legs spread out on either side of the handle and his torso tilted slightly, as if he was leaning on a seat that is angled backwards rather than straight up and down. If you look carefully you see this isn't the case - he does seem to be sitting with his legs below him, not stretched out - but it looks that way because of how low to the ground it is, and how his torso appears slightly titled backwards.
Okay, so you mean his positioning. That's pretty standard positioning for an ATV/four-wheeler. In either case, I think the Primaris need to fire Cobra Commander from the vehicle design team.
changemod wrote: Pushfit is harder to assemble, the pegs are a very tight fit and can jam, bend or break with the force of pushing them in. Shaving the peg thin enough to be a clean fit (and ideally take glue) requires a sharp hobby knife unsuited to young kids.
I've found GW's mouldline remover works quite well in widening the holes. Simply stick it in and rotate a few times until the hole is the right size.
I wonder if the marine in front grumbles as he walks to his buggy, realizing he's gone through the rubicon primaris and centuries of battle/training to be relegated to the steel cage of a go-kart.
Maybe this is some old training vehical which is why all then
Older marines are short, they lost their legs from the knee down due to the design of the training buggy meaning you loose your foot if you hit a small pebble as it gets ripped off underneath the buggy.
Either/Or wrote: The ATV looks much better in the video including the 360. The still pic on warcom does it no favors. Will look better in Ravenwing black.
Rule of thumb for Space Marines is that everything looks better in black.
StarHunter25 wrote: I'm really looking forward to the new Tyranid models GW will give us. We're getting more bugs right? .. ... ...
Right?
Wasn't it mentioned that a part of the story was the the Necrons were rising to put down the Tyranid threat, that it was encroaching on their tomb worlds? I would think, if that was a driving force, then we'd definitely see some new bugs some time. There was also some art in Blood of Baal that showed a flying Tyranid that doesn't look like anything we have now, so hopefully we'll see something new.
I will do tomorrow, trying not to influence her, it's going to be interesting .
I can explain why I feel the marine vehicle looks imo close to the kart: it's the whole "The crew are very exposed" aspect.
Ah, the Terror gang vs. the Anti-Terror team, the SPECIAL Anti-Terror Team, the Deap Sea Anti-Terror Team and the Space Anti-Terror Team. Sucks to be the Terror gang.
I'm sorry but I just don't see the similarity to Mario Kart. and those who think there is a similarity are just looking to bash and make absurd comparisons
go find your mother and show her
this picture
go ask if it looks more like
or
go on ask someone whose not a 40k player
I did, and she wanted an option C. I showed her the old Ork Buggy and got a Yes.
Which was the first thing I thought of when I saw the PrimoKart
EnTyme wrote: Okay, so you mean his positioning. That's pretty standard positioning for an ATV/four-wheeler. In either case, I think the Primaris need to fire Cobra Commander from the vehicle design team.
No, on an ATV, the driver is orientated forward and down; the seat is like a motorcycle seat, and you lean forward over it and grip the handle bars, like you would on a motorcycle, though the angle of orientation is not as large as a motorcycle. This guy is instead sitting way back in the seat, almost leaning backwards, which, combined with how low to the ground it is, is why it looks like a go-cart.
I personally think it's hilariously funny. Primaris clearly take themselves way too seriously, and I love the idea of the normal marines making fun of them as they ride around in their go-carts acting like they're the Emperor's gift to the world.
The design of the Invader ATV is something that feels like it could be fixed/improved so easily - simply place the wheels on angled struts/suspension. Like others have said It pretty much is an armoured W40K Go-Kart, it follows the same sort of design - chassis and wheels that are both extremely low to the ground, with the wheels either side of the chasis so they're at the same height, and a forward sitting driver within it rather than ontop. All they had to do was have the normal state of it be with at least he back wheels lower than the rest, to raise it up, based on the video they might be able to do that as there doesn't seem to be anything locking them in place
HA! Love it! Maybe he just took the name 'Land' Speeder too literally?
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yukishiro1 wrote: I hope not. Those assault intercessors make me so sad. Look at how they've tried to cover up the fact that there's only five poses by the way they've shot it, yet failed; even a unit of 10 looks formulaic and repetitive. Not even the heads can be posed. Sad!
Well sure if you lack the will to clip off a peg the heads can't be posed. As for pose overall, is this a criticism you have also raised against... every previous edition starter? I doubt it. If it really is that big a problem wait and buy the inevitable multi-part plastic release.
changemod wrote: Pushfit is harder to assemble, the pegs are a very tight fit and can jam, bend or break with the force of pushing them in. Shaving the peg thin enough to be a clean fit (and ideally take glue) requires a sharp hobby knife unsuited to young kids.
I've found GW's mouldline remover works quite well in widening the holes. Simply stick it in and rotate a few times until the hole is the right size.
changemod wrote: Pushfit is harder to assemble, the pegs are a very tight fit and can jam, bend or break with the force of pushing them in. Shaving the peg thin enough to be a clean fit (and ideally take glue) requires a sharp hobby knife unsuited to young kids.
I've found GW's mouldline remover works quite well in widening the holes. Simply stick it in and rotate a few times until the hole is the right size.
Does no one know how to use a file anymore?
I used a file for twenty-something years (or more). I just like the mouldline remover a bit better (I just wish the handle was more comfortable).
Crimson wrote: It is really sad that this day and age anyone would have an issue with a marine's orientation, whatever that may be.
You made my day sir, I award you one internets.
I think the problem with the ATV is it looks like a cut-away showing the inside of the driver's compartment of a vehicle that's supposed to have front quarter-panels and a front grille/bumper.
Any time anything like this is revealed a bunch of excitable people go out and buy a bunch of stuff they may or may not actually want. Everything will be back in stock within a week or two, don't worry. GW has absolutely no interest in not being able to sell you stuff.
ClockworkZion wrote: Makes me wonder if the prize GW has will be a starter box minus the seperate character sprues and the duplicate sprues.
Why? If the prize is the new box, it'll just be the new box. Why would they open it, go digging in to remove things, and then reseal it?
yukishiro1 wrote: Push fit is terrible, I really hope this isn't an indication they're going more in that direction for new model releases for 40k.
It's not really indicative of anything. Both Soul Wars and Dark Imperium saw a bunch of push-fit minis that came out around the time their main boxes were released, and that was it. This is the same.
ClockworkZion wrote: Makes me wonder if the prize GW has will be a starter box minus the seperate character sprues and the duplicate sprues.
Why? If the prize is the new box, it'll just be the new box. Why would they open it, go digging in to remove things, and then reseal it?
Who said the prize was the new box exactly?
Plus the Indomitus box isn't the edition starter, it's a limited run box aimed at existing players. Reusing the sprues for the starter would be about right for GW and would let them get a higher ROI while selling it as a smaller box than the Indomitus box.
And it wouldn't be removing anything, it'd just be using the existing molds while not including duplicate frames or the special characters.
yukishiro1 wrote: Any time anything like this is revealed a bunch of excitable people go out and buy a bunch of stuff they may or may not actually want. Everything will be back in stock within a week or two, don't worry. GW has absolutely no interest in not being able to sell you stuff.
.
