Skaven need a massive line update in terms of not so much having more diverse models, but replacing metal, resin and even early plastic models with new updated sculpts.
They very much need a huge line update - you've got things like 1st generation plastic rat ogres still running around.
Yeah, Skaven need a big update and if GW is going to do a cycle for its edition armies then it's Chaos's turn which would be the perfect opportunity.
Plus the story currently is focussing on the establishment of new Dawnbringer Cities and with cities, you get rats.
sockwithaticket wrote: For anyone wondering the various Skinks are £19 each, Kroak and Saurus Old Blood on Carnosaur are each £37.50 while the Slann is 42.50.
Think I'll pass. I've got more than enough other stuff to paint, these would have been nice to have if they were reasonably priced, but not essential purchases.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Article didn't mention it (getting lost in all the Leviathan whatever) but the video mentioned an MTO for some classic Seraphon stuff.
I ordered a Tenhenhuan. It’s crazy to me they were the same price as the other Skinks given their size and they’re on the fancy base and have the little sidekick. $35 for them in metal really ain’t bad, it’s half to a third of what they’ve been up on the eBays for. Having to wait a potential 180 days to get it is a bit of a bummer though. Ordered it thru the local Mallhammer store to avoid the website queue today and got to pick up the free Saurus while I was there for a bonus.
Gert wrote: Yeah, Skaven need a big update and if GW is going to do a cycle for its edition armies then it's Chaos's turn which would be the perfect opportunity.
Plus the story currently is focussing on the establishment of new Dawnbringer Cities and with cities, you get rats.
I'd throw in two other options as well. We've gone through Chaos, Death and Destruction. Even if GW sticks with one Grand Alliance per cycle until everyone had their time in the sun, who's to say that they keep the order of the first cycle the second time around?
The other one is Order versus Order, so that the versus side truly does have each Grand Alliance represented once. Sounds a bit weird on paper, but depending on what Malerion is up to and how spiky and sinister his elves look, GW could probably sell a Sigmarine versus shadow elves box that had recognizable good/evil visuals, even if the fluff is more nuanced.
And this one stays for a year. Interesting. I guess the 6-month turnover was too difficult to maintain and/or the pushback from how short these books were out made them rethink it.
tneva82 wrote: Also next winter end of editioe preparations
We're moving towards the 'End of Edition Campaign' already with these Harbinger books, would be nice if they'd not arrive in a fashion that was as cramped as Arks of Omen and people would have some time to actually use the contents
Scottywan82 wrote: And this one stays for a year. Interesting. I guess the 6-month turnover was too difficult to maintain and/or the pushback from how short these books were out made them rethink it.
I can imagine both. The quick turnover meant people were always adjusting to new meta and the quick turnover also meant that GW couldn't do reprints as the reprints would arrive the day the new book should have gone out.
Scottywan82 wrote: And this one stays for a year. Interesting. I guess the 6-month turnover was too difficult to maintain and/or the pushback from how short these books were out made them rethink it.
I can imagine both. The quick turnover meant people were always adjusting to new meta and the quick turnover also meant that GW couldn't do reprints as the reprints would arrive the day the new book should have gone out.
so strange to me that people find 6 month too short to get used to it, i'm already getting bored of a season after 4-5months of playing the same missions.
Eager to get all the details on that one tho
Scottywan82 wrote: And this one stays for a year. Interesting. I guess the 6-month turnover was too difficult to maintain and/or the pushback from how short these books were out made them rethink it.
I can imagine both. The quick turnover meant people were always adjusting to new meta and the quick turnover also meant that GW couldn't do reprints as the reprints would arrive the day the new book should have gone out.
so strange to me that people find 6 month too short to get used to it, i'm already getting bored of a season after 4-5months of playing the same missions.
Eager to get all the details on that one tho
Scottywan82 wrote: And this one stays for a year. Interesting. I guess the 6-month turnover was too difficult to maintain and/or the pushback from how short these books were out made them rethink it.
I can imagine both. The quick turnover meant people were always adjusting to new meta and the quick turnover also meant that GW couldn't do reprints as the reprints would arrive the day the new book should have gone out.
so strange to me that people find 6 month too short to get used to it, i'm already getting bored of a season after 4-5months of playing the same missions.
Eager to get all the details on that one tho
You can play the scenarios from the previous GHB (or even further back). They still work, and many work quite well.
Oh now that's good. Just the sort of grim derp I was hoping for. Also, I love that shield. Also also, glad to see confirmation that it's not 100% exclusively human. My interest just rocketed.
It's delightfully idiotic, picks up desing cues from the Old World, and due to the size of the model the overly-detailled CoS-look actually works well on this one, so general thumbs up!
I adore it overall. The ogre I'd like more as a fatty McFatFat, I simply enjoy the art and concept of the first Ogre Kingdom rulebook.
Besides that, it is the right amount of ridiculously over the top that I simply like it. It's not "whole army of immortal golden bois" or Bloodbath Bloodletterers with Bloodblades and Bloodhelmet ridiculous, it could be from Mordheim. They're not even hiding it. The literal tower shield is pure gold.
The knights are also pretty nice, but a unit of such wackiness starts to be a bit much and the infantry preview left me cold. But one or two models or units for some skirmish goodness, yes, please.
So ogors are the new ogres? Whilst I dig the model, I feel that the new Ogres and Orcs look more ‘generic’ rather than Warhammer. Very cool concept nonetheless!
Malika2 wrote: So ogors are the new ogres? Whilst I dig the model, I feel that the new Ogres and Orcs look more ‘generic’ rather than Warhammer. Very cool concept nonetheless!
The period-piece helmets and the overall amount of filigree makes them look a lot like Rackham sculpts, especially the late Cadwallon stuff.
Malika2 wrote: So ogors are the new ogres? Whilst I dig the model, I feel that the new Ogres and Orcs look more ‘generic’ rather than Warhammer. Very cool concept nonetheless!
Ogres/Ogors have never just been exclusively the kingdoms. There have always been different types that weren't necessarily fat and sporting a Fu Manchu stache.
Ogors need a huge update. This guy falls in line with the Cursed City ones, and the big chunky models likely aren't reflective of most ogors in the mortal realms.
Not sure if I like the howdah. I like the ogor standard bearer with a gnoblar in a little crows nest, but this is uge and holds a full grown man. I get ogors are strong, but still
Scottywan82 wrote: And this one stays for a year. Interesting. I guess the 6-month turnover was too difficult to maintain and/or the pushback from how short these books were out made them rethink it.
I can imagine both. The quick turnover meant people were always adjusting to new meta and the quick turnover also meant that GW couldn't do reprints as the reprints would arrive the day the new book should have gone out.
so strange to me that people find 6 month too short to get used to it, i'm already getting bored of a season after 4-5months of playing the same missions.
Eager to get all the details on that one tho
You can play the scenarios from the previous GHB (or even further back). They still work, and many work quite well.
which is an argument in favor of releasing seasons more than 1/year
Am I the only one who's frustrated that the video is cut to show a rotation of the front of the model five times but not once progresses to show the back? I would have actually liked to see that part of the model as well.
GaroRobe wrote: Ogors need a huge update. This guy falls in line with the Cursed City ones, and the big chunky models likely aren't reflective of most ogors in the mortal realms.
Not sure if I like the howdah. I like the ogor standard bearer with a gnoblar in a little crows nest, but this is uge and holds a full grown man. I get ogors are strong, but still
I'm on board with getting some variety in our ogres. Would have been nice to get actual Chaos ogres alongside city militia ogres and cult of nom ogres, instead of ogroids that take that spot and make actual Chaos ogres unlikely.
I think the crow's nest is ridiculous, and not in a good way. It's funny with a goblin or gnoblar that doesn't achieve anything whether it gets rocked around or not. Trying to sell something like that as a serious thing with a human sniper is just bogus.
I don't know it looks somehow cool and aweful at the same time and I don't know why
it is too large, the Ogre looks like an 32mm human
the sniper is too high up to be of any use, would it be a spotter it would make sense
the whole composition is like a random mix of cool ideas that don't fit together
Malika2 wrote: So ogors are the new ogres? Whilst I dig the model, I feel that the new Ogres and Orcs look more ‘generic’ rather than Warhammer. Very cool concept nonetheless!
The period-piece helmets and the overall amount of filigree makes them look a lot like Rackham sculpts, especially the late Cadwallon stuff.
It's almost there, but I feel Rackham would go full hog with the walking siege tower shtick. Also, that should be a blunderbuss, not a rifle.
lord_blackfang wrote: Cool concept but the ogor has zero ogrish traits, it's just a resized human sculpt.
Now look just because he's been to the gym, worked out, looked after his food intake and not become overweight doesn't mean he's any less of an ogor than those gutbusters - most of which could do with some vegetation and dieting!
lord_blackfang wrote: Cool concept but the ogor has zero ogrish traits, it's just a resized human sculpt.
Came here to say this. It's a good sculpt, but an Ogre it is not. It just looks like an out-of-scale human.
GW, ever since the 8th ed OK book seem to be drifting away from everything that defined the Ogres. They gave them a grey/khaki-esq skin, which gave them a wonderful unique look (a skin tone I use for all of my Ogre minis, regardless of system to this day), which they explained away nicely by the fact that they are explicitly not giant humans and are another fantastical creature, just like Orcs and Lizardmen. Then, with zero explanation in the 8th ed book, they have Caucasian skin, a trend which has continued to this day into AoS.
I like the idea of that model, but the Ogor just looks like a fairly normal guy to me. I didn't see the guy above it at first so didn't even realize it was meant to be an Ogor until i saw that part. He's not wide and bulky enough and the way he's equipped (just typical Cities of Sigmar Gear) doesn't help give across that he's an Ogor.
"Traditional" ogors still exist, as seen with the Underworlds warbands, but those are based specifically around concepts from the old world, like maneaters and hunters. The new hunter and tyrant are also just reimagings of classic ogre kingdom models, and not new AOS ideas
I am among the crowd who loves this new mini. I also want to get a bunch of them and create a tower terrain piece which can break apart into several of these guys
Another great model for CoS! And like all the previous ones it seems like it has some choices for heads and weapons too.
I do feel that this could never work. No way the gunner can aim. Maybe if he was closer to the ogor... maybe standing on his shoulders or something...
Still it's very cool. Also I want to see the new CoS minis painted with different color schemes but I love the red wood.
They sort of explain it in the flavor text. He's a second generation city ogor, whatever that means. He can "control his stomach" for hours at a time. Guess he got treatment for binge eating disorder and this model is what that looks like
Zachectomy wrote: They sort of explain it in the flavor text. He's a second generation city ogor, whatever that means. He can "control his stomach" for hours at a time. Guess he got treatment for binge eating disorder and this model is what that looks like
I take back my odd/weird statement.
I guess cities really should showcase all of the technological marvels and wonders that the realms have to offer 😁
I mean the steam tank and war wagon.
Why not marksmen toting ogres. lol.
The old Mordheim ogres didn't have jowels or huge bellies, so we've long had a basis for non-tubby ones and i prefer it. Always thought the tub o'lard versions looked too cartoonish.
Ouch, that model is bad. First one i dont like for cities of sigmar so far. Might have been different if it was a halfling on top, but a human is.just too silly
I feel like lore wise, the ogre stops when the gunner is firing.
I doubt he’s walking along and just taking shots necessarily (though real history has had people firing from horse back and elephants and all sorts, so I guess it isn’t even that crazy to shoot on the move..)
Having said that, I’m not sure I like the mobile tower type look..
‘Picture the biggest troggoth you’ve ever seen. Make his flesh as hard as the earth, and as cracked and unforgiving as it, too. Give his eyes a madness, a hunger for nothing but wanton destruction. And atop him…’
Volgard sucked in a breath and leaned down towards the flames. He drew his arms in a great arcing sweep over his head.
‘Atop his back stood a portal, heavy with magic
Excerpt from one of the warcom dawnbringer stories. I wonder if it’s a one off mention or a tease for a new trog character or unit. Maybe one lugging a realmgate portal?
‘Picture the biggest troggoth you’ve ever seen. Make his flesh as hard as the earth, and as cracked and unforgiving as it, too. Give his eyes a madness, a hunger for nothing but wanton destruction. And atop him…’
Volgard sucked in a breath and leaned down towards the flames. He drew his arms in a great arcing sweep over his head.
‘Atop his back stood a portal, heavy with magic
Excerpt from one of the warcom dawnbringer stories. I wonder if it’s a one off mention or a tease for a new trog character or unit. Maybe one lugging a realmgate portal?
‘Picture the biggest troggoth you’ve ever seen. Make his flesh as hard as the earth, and as cracked and unforgiving as it, too. Give his eyes a madness, a hunger for nothing but wanton destruction. And atop him…’
Volgard sucked in a breath and leaned down towards the flames. He drew his arms in a great arcing sweep over his head.
‘Atop his back stood a portal, heavy with magic
Excerpt from one of the warcom dawnbringer stories. I wonder if it’s a one off mention or a tease for a new trog character or unit. Maybe one lugging a realmgate portal?
The portal made me think mutalith, but I dunno...
We had some rumour engine pics recently that could easily be new trolls of various sizes...
The gloomspite bundle includes the gobbapalooza. I dunno if that’s a good thing since I’m guessing most players picked up that set already. It also makes the rabble rowza in the bundle a bit blander since he’s basically just one half of the scaremonger
Hopefully the heroes get a separate release fairly soon since I’d actually liked to snag the grimhold exile
I'd like to pick up 3 of the heroes but only when they're no longer paywalled in a bundle of stuff I already have too much of.
Could be a tough choice. Looking at the Nurgle boyos, that might cost 160€ in individual kits if the lord follows the new and improved price the mounted Slaves to Darkness lord got. Discount that to 95€ for the box and compare it to the lord's proposed 50€. I'm honestly not sure if it's worth holding back until the individual release. It's a really cool model, but I'm not sure I'd find the individual price palatable.
Although I guess if you're interested in multiple heroes, the extra cost mounts up quickly.
GaroRobe wrote: The gloomspite bundle includes the gobbapalooza. I dunno if that’s a good thing since I’m guessing most players picked up that set already. It also makes the rabble rowza in the bundle a bit blander since he’s basically just one half of the scaremonger
Hopefully the heroes get a separate release fairly soon since I’d actually liked to snag the grimhold exile
Or haven't because it's been op and thus out of stock pretty much since tome came out
So i'm guessing a bigger drop of Cities stuff, a preview of the next Dawnbringer book and i'm not sure about Warcry. Either just warbands or new big boxes again?
So i'm guessing a bigger drop of Cities stuff, a preview of the next Dawnbringer book and i'm not sure about Warcry. Either just warbands or new big boxes again?
Warcry will be the already leaked Starter Set and maybe some of the new warbands due in the autumn depending how far out they go. Underworlds will be the Chaos Warband on the roadmap and maybe the new core box.
Once per battle, when picking this unit to fight, pick 1 enemy unit within 1" and roll a dice equal to the wounds characteristic of the unit. Mortal Wound on each 4+
Once per battle, Friendly FS units within 6" can run and charge later in the turn.
4+ Ward to any friendly unit that has within 3+" inches with 3 or more models. (Doesn't specify Fyreslayers)
MobileSuitRandom wrote: Did I miss something, or is this new terrain in the background ... or just some studio terrain based on the Domicile Shell kit?
They've shown some non under-construction terrain in previous pics. I don't think they've said one way or another if its a studio custom build or a new kit.
I suspect its another Ossiarch Bonereaper situation, where they custom made terrain for that release, and the terrain will feature more prominently in the upcoming Cities of Sigmar promo shots.
Would love to be wrong though. Love me some fantasy terrain.
edit: Harbinger of Decay looks to be getting a new warscroll, with its new model. Can't make out the details in the leaked pic on Facebook.
MobileSuitRandom wrote: Did I miss something, or is this new terrain in the background ... or just some studio terrain based on the Domicile Shell kit?
They've shown some non under-construction terrain in previous pics. I don't think they've said one way or another if its a studio custom build or a new kit.
I suspect its another Ossiarch Bonereaper situation, where they custom made terrain for that release, and the terrain will feature more prominently in the upcoming Cities of Sigmar promo shots.
Would love to be wrong though. Love me some fantasy terrain.
edit: Harbinger of Decay looks to be getting a new warscroll, with its new model. Can't make out the details in the leaked pic on Facebook.
From what I can decipher the model can choose between a scythe and a bell. Bell gives a once per game 14" bubble of -1 to move/run/charge. Scythe is 2" 2 3+ 3+ -2 3 with no additional caveats. Character is 7w 8"mov 3+sv and 8brv. At the beginning of the fight or battleshock phase a unit within 3" can't receive or issue order on a 3+. Unique spell is cast on a 3+ 14" subtract the bravery of the unit by the number of the current battle round. Attacks are the same as before.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found all the new datasheet, the ROR rules and points on twitter.
nels1031 wrote: Looks like some Skaven reveals for the July 1st preview show.
Not for Warcy thats order vs destruction for the first 4 warbands. Might be that the Chaos Warband for WHU is actually Skaven? or could be more Harbingers?
Its definitely skaven. You can see their triangle icon on the sewer lid. I'm betting it'll be for WHU. We already got the basic skaven, and clan Eshin. They could do some really awesome stuff with plague monks
That's the point really. Like 1 in every 100 settlements may get a foothold and grow into something. But the vast majority are going to end before they even get going.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: That's the point really. Like 1 in every 100 settlements may get a foothold and grow into something. But the vast majority are going to end before they even get going.
As many as one in a hundred? I think that’s doing better than the Old West of what would become the USA.
I wish they'd go back to having 360 views of models on the website, but being able to look at sprues is fine.
It's so weird to say that I want a fyreslayer model, but seeing how the Grimhold Exile's bits are laid out on his sprue makes it look like my conversion idea will be even easier to pull off.
I wish they'd go back to having 360 views of models on the website, but being able to look at sprues is fine.
It's so weird to say that I want a fyreslayer model, but seeing how the Grimhold Exile's bits are laid out on his sprue makes it look like my conversion idea will be even easier to pull off.
360° views have been absent a lot lately. I hope GW isn't dropping them for good. I find them really helpful.
I wish they'd go back to having 360 views of models on the website, but being able to look at sprues is fine.
It's so weird to say that I want a fyreslayer model, but seeing how the Grimhold Exile's bits are laid out on his sprue makes it look like my conversion idea will be even easier to pull off.
360° views have been absent a lot lately. I hope GW isn't dropping them for good. I find them really helpful.
I can only assume its a management choice. GW has a whole internal studio setup so in theory they can just setup a camera and lights and fire away, esp as they generally seem to use one lighting setpu for them. Processing them should also be fairly simple with a whole dedicated studio and set lights and such. Perhaps the fact that GW is using less and less artwork in books and pushing for more scene designs with their models means that the studio is getting full of diorama setups which take longer to setup and light which then have to be torn down and rebuilt - eating up all the time that they'd otherwise use for product and 360 shots.
I do agree its a pain if they lose it, I've always said that GW are ahead of many competitors by offering 360 views of painted actual models on their store. Not just renders or 360renders and such
I wish they'd go back to having 360 views of models on the website, but being able to look at sprues is fine.
It's so weird to say that I want a fyreslayer model, but seeing how the Grimhold Exile's bits are laid out on his sprue makes it look like my conversion idea will be even easier to pull off.
360° views have been absent a lot lately. I hope GW isn't dropping them for good. I find them really helpful.
I can only assume its a management choice. GW has a whole internal studio setup so in theory they can just setup a camera and lights and fire away, esp as they generally seem to use one lighting setpu for them. Processing them should also be fairly simple with a whole dedicated studio and set lights and such. Perhaps the fact that GW is using less and less artwork in books and pushing for more scene designs with their models means that the studio is getting full of diorama setups which take longer to setup and light which then have to be torn down and rebuilt - eating up all the time that they'd otherwise use for product and 360 shots.
I do agree its a pain if they lose it, I've always said that GW are ahead of many competitors by offering 360 views of painted actual models on their store. Not just renders or 360renders and such
It might (i'm saying might, not stating it as a fact) have something to do with people making 3D-print files for GW models, that ought to be much easier with a neat, professional 360° view in high quality.
I wish they'd go back to having 360 views of models on the website, but being able to look at sprues is fine.
It's so weird to say that I want a fyreslayer model, but seeing how the Grimhold Exile's bits are laid out on his sprue makes it look like my conversion idea will be even easier to pull off.
360° views have been absent a lot lately. I hope GW isn't dropping them for good. I find them really helpful.
I can only assume its a management choice. GW has a whole internal studio setup so in theory they can just setup a camera and lights and fire away, esp as they generally seem to use one lighting setpu for them. Processing them should also be fairly simple with a whole dedicated studio and set lights and such. Perhaps the fact that GW is using less and less artwork in books and pushing for more scene designs with their models means that the studio is getting full of diorama setups which take longer to setup and light which then have to be torn down and rebuilt - eating up all the time that they'd otherwise use for product and 360 shots.
I do agree its a pain if they lose it, I've always said that GW are ahead of many competitors by offering 360 views of painted actual models on their store. Not just renders or 360renders and such
It might (i'm saying might, not stating it as a fact) have something to do with people making 3D-print files for GW models, that ought to be much easier with a neat, professional 360° view in high quality.
Unlikely. You need way higher scans to achieve that. At least to achieve it with any amount of quality and without a massive amount of editing. I know there's a few firms advertising random photos turning into glorious 3D models but I don't think the tech is anywhere near there yet (though it might one day so perhaps GW is future proofing).
That said it wouldn't really stop anyone; anyone going that far could easily just scan an actual GW model.
Can't believe that the manticore is actually just a manticore and not some random unique AOS monster.
Did they show off her hammer? And are the weapons she uses meant to be taken from Chaos cultist?
"The fiery sword Parchtongue, taken from the Archmage Zanta Faloria. The greataxe Justice, wrested from the so-called Bloody Duke. The heavy mace Warmaker, claimed from the corrupt treasurer Venalius. The Hammer of Zeal, a trophy of the ex-Pontifex of the Cults Unberogen"
Maybe they're just meant to be from CoS champions that were craven or something. But the mace keeps returning to her hands and that's pretty strange.
Hot stuff, really like the look of everything bar the bog standard infantry heads and lord knows in today's 3D print dominated custom mini landscape that's a really easy fix!
Manticore is a nice surprise and... well, I'm sold. Bring it on!
Yeah, my favourite from that box. Angry innkeeper is a close second.
I really dislike how they paint female faces, especially black/brown ones. Somehow, they make all of them look like Whoopie Goldberg, which kills my suspension of disbelief somewhat. And you need all of that for AoS
There’s also a special edition of the Battletome: Cities of Sigmar with cover art unique to this army set, and a deck of warscroll cards for all 54 units they can field. What makes up the rest of the roster? You’ll have to wait and see…
54 Units. Seems like a lot of legacy WHFB kits are sticking around. I recall a debunked rumor that quite a bit was getting cut, causing some gnashing of teeth for those who like using those kits and the cities they represent.
The plague monk from the underworlds team is standing on a cannon barrel with a comet engraved on it. I’m betting the old empire sets will be replaced though the dispossessed and aelves may be safe.
I wonder if CoS will keep their rule about taking SCE without it coming from Allies. I could be remembering it wrong but didn't they have a rule where for every so many units they had they could take a unit of SCE?
GaroRobe wrote: Can't believe that the manticore is actually just a manticore and not some random unique AOS monster.
Did they show off her hammer? And are the weapons she uses meant to be taken from Chaos cultist?
"The fiery sword Parchtongue, taken from the Archmage Zanta Faloria. The greataxe Justice, wrested from the so-called Bloody Duke. The heavy mace Warmaker, claimed from the corrupt treasurer Venalius. The Hammer of Zeal, a trophy of the ex-Pontifex of the Cults Unberogen"
Maybe they're just meant to be from CoS champions that were craven or something. But the mace keeps returning to her hands and that's pretty strange.
Well they could be other things - Bloody Duke could be a vamp, or just a warlord with a fancy name
Cults Unberogen likely to be associated with Sigmar given its original tribes name.
Archmage - could be Chaos - may not be.
GaroRobe wrote: Can't believe that the manticore is actually just a manticore and not some random unique AOS monster.
Did they show off her hammer? And are the weapons she uses meant to be taken from Chaos cultist?
"The fiery sword Parchtongue, taken from the Archmage Zanta Faloria. The greataxe Justice, wrested from the so-called Bloody Duke. The heavy mace Warmaker, claimed from the corrupt treasurer Venalius. The Hammer of Zeal, a trophy of the ex-Pontifex of the Cults Unberogen"
Maybe they're just meant to be from CoS champions that were craven or something. But the mace keeps returning to her hands and that's pretty strange.
Well they could be other things - Bloody Duke could be a vamp, or just a warlord with a fancy name
Cults Unberogen likely to be associated with Sigmar given its original tribes name.
Archmage - could be Chaos - may not be.
"Hammerhal’s Lioness wields enchanted weapons taken from high-ranking traitors she and her allies exposed and slew in her own rise to power."
Since they are traitors to the CoS, it definitely feels like it's more chaos than anything else. Not that the traitors could have just been greedy or served some nagash servants or something, but 9/10 times, traitors are chaosy
GaroRobe wrote: Can't believe that the manticore is actually just a manticore and not some random unique AOS monster.
Did they show off her hammer? And are the weapons she uses meant to be taken from Chaos cultist?
"The fiery sword Parchtongue, taken from the Archmage Zanta Faloria. The greataxe Justice, wrested from the so-called Bloody Duke. The heavy mace Warmaker, claimed from the corrupt treasurer Venalius. The Hammer of Zeal, a trophy of the ex-Pontifex of the Cults Unberogen"
Maybe they're just meant to be from CoS champions that were craven or something. But the mace keeps returning to her hands and that's pretty strange.
Well they could be other things - Bloody Duke could be a vamp, or just a warlord with a fancy name
Cults Unberogen likely to be associated with Sigmar given its original tribes name.
Archmage - could be Chaos - may not be.
"Hammerhal’s Lioness wields enchanted weapons taken from high-ranking traitors she and her allies exposed and slew in her own rise to power."
Since they are traitors to the CoS, it definitely feels like it's more chaos than anything else. Not that the traitors could have just been greedy or served some nagash servants or something, but 9/10 times, traitors are chaosy
It might be my imagination, but it reads a bit... nuanced. Like, it could be 'traitors', not traitors in the strict sense. Guilty of being in her way, guilty of having things she wants, if you catch my drift. Together with everybody being advised by literal talking heads (and skulls) it almost seems like there's room for plot twists and revelations in a novel or whatever, or even like a little bit of old-hammery satire is creeping back into the setting. Which i think would be a good thing, AoS should not imagine itself as entirely serious
nels1031 wrote: 54 Units. Seems like a lot of legacy WHFB kits are sticking around. I recall a debunked rumor that quite a bit was getting cut, causing some gnashing of teeth for those who like using those kits and the cities they represent.
Maybe with TOW coming soon they can justify keeping the legacy kits around, and perhaps even bringing a few back. Or even introducing new ones (eg. if Dwarfs get a new Dwarf Warrior kit for TOW, maybe that can also be used with Cities armies as "Stoutbeard Axemonglers" or whatever?).
For now it looks more like the opposite, that GW wants a clear cut between games and kits that are used for one game are not meant to be used in another (which does not mean people cannot use whatever they want, just that there won't be an option for the very same kit in 2 games)
At first glance the center dude looks like some weird wood-robot firing a chest gun, but that's clearly just the angle. Overall solid sculpts, and a plausible-ish concept, i'd like to see them in a somewhat more subdued paintjob though. They're visually a bit too busy for their own good imho, that would probably look better with a less complicated job on. Also, with all the dark browns and reds going on, they'd really benefit from high-contrast bases, something like light flagstones, or white-ish sand/ desert perhaps.
First up I really do love the concept of them and they are a neat idea - take something real and mix it up for fantasy.
My issue is that AoS is kind of shown to be way more advanced in terms of their metal work and gunsmithing all the way up to mobile fortresses and such.
These weapons feel like they'd be far more at home in the Old World where humanity was more basic with their gunsmithing.
Also GW missed a trick, they should have had at least 2 or 3 novice models in the set doing rearming/recharging and passing out fresh guns-on-sticks to the shooters up front ^
I am so confused. How are those weapons supposed to work? Is the end sticking out past the pavise a mini cannon that they manually touch off with a flame to fire? And then they pull it back over, reload, and do that again?
First up I really do love the concept of them and they are a neat idea - take something real and mix it up for fantasy.
My issue is that AoS is kind of shown to be way more advanced in terms of their metal work and gunsmithing all the way up to mobile fortresses and such.
These weapons feel like they'd be far more at home in the Old World where humanity was more basic with their gunsmithing.
Also GW missed a trick, they should have had at least 2 or 3 novice models in the set doing rearming/recharging and passing out fresh guns-on-sticks to the shooters up front ^
All that metalworking expertise got used up in doing complicated scrollwork on every last militiaman's training shield apparently
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scottywan82 wrote: I am so confused. How are those weapons supposed to work? Is the end sticking out past the pavise a mini cannon that they manually touch off with a flame to fire? And then they pull it back over, reload, and do that again?
Seems like a flintlock with a lot of extra steps.
There were real, early blackpowder weapons that worked like this basically - they have pre-loaded 'pots' of black powder (some had exchangeable ones that get hammered in between a block and a barrel, some were single pieces) and are usually fired by applying a match to a firing aperture (so the predecessor to all sorts of lock, a match-lock evolved from that, and later on flintlocks, springlocks and such evolved from that).
Scottywan82 wrote: I am so confused. How are those weapons supposed to work? Is the end sticking out past the pavise a mini cannon that they manually touch off with a flame to fire? And then they pull it back over, reload, and do that again?
Seems like a flintlock with a lot of extra steps.
Look up historical handcannons and early culverins, that's all these are.
I hope we get non human models soon, like the ogor. It makes sense duardin aren’t included here since the shields are too tall. Though a duardin ammo runner would have been fun albeit slow
GaroRobe wrote: What’s with the weird creatures all over the CoS bases? Are they secretly in the chaos wastes?
Also more braziers are very welcome
Once you get any distance outside the walls of a city, you are basically in the chaos wastes. The whole premise of the game is that chaos controlled pretty much everything for about 500 years and still control most of it. The dawnbringer crusades are heading out into that to try tame some of it.
I'm not too knowledgeably about AoS lore specifics, why are these guys seemingly less advanced then WHFB Empire were or the Freeguilds? If these were like poor pilgrim warriors than I could perhaps understand it, but the elaborate metalwork and uniforms and all that don't really fit with that idea. I don't really get why they've gone backwards from flintlocks and such to Culverins with these models.
The portcullis is unfortunately pretty close to the 'St Michaels Cross', the symbol of the Romanian 'Iron Legions', i.e. Romanian Nazis. Not only in form, but also in colour combination. Not something that was intended obviously, but still not something i'd want to display.
The portcullis is unfortunately pretty close to the 'St Michaels Cross', the symbol of the Romanian 'Iron Legions', i.e. Romanian Nazis. Not only in form, but also in colour combination. Not something that was intended obviously, but still not something i'd want to display.
A green portcullis has been used as the emblem of the British parliament since the 12th century.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm not too knowledgeably about AoS lore specifics, why are these guys seemingly less advanced then WHFB Empire were or the Freeguilds? If these were like poor pilgrim warriors than I could perhaps understand it, but the elaborate metalwork and uniforms and all that don't really fit with that idea. I don't really get why they've gone backwards from flintlocks and such to Culverins with these models.
Perhaps they are easier and quicker to produce in the vast quantities needed?
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm not too knowledgeably about AoS lore specifics, why are these guys seemingly less advanced then WHFB Empire were or the Freeguilds? If these were like poor pilgrim warriors than I could perhaps understand it, but the elaborate metalwork and uniforms and all that don't really fit with that idea. I don't really get why they've gone backwards from flintlocks and such to Culverins with these models.
Perhaps they are easier and quicker to produce in the vast quantities needed?
It is a bit weird, not going to lie.
I don't think something like that really makes make much sense when they clearly took the time and resources to make sure they've got elaborate metalwork on their shields and are all wearing matching decorated uniforms consisting of more substantial armour than Empire solidiers had. Going through the effort for all that but then skimping out on their weapons.
I think the simple answer is that empire troops were made for a different game and were kept for AOS until new models were able to replace them.
Though given how advanced kharadron are, and that mechanical limbs exist in AOS for humans, it still feels a bit weird. Especially since some realms like chamon are probably more techy
The portcullis is unfortunately pretty close to the 'St Michaels Cross', the symbol of the Romanian 'Iron Legions', i.e. Romanian Nazis. Not only in form, but also in colour combination. Not something that was intended obviously, but still not something i'd want to display.
A green portcullis has been used as the emblem of the British parliament since the 12th century.
The Warcry warband Iron Golems uses nearly the same symbol also, but inverted.
I don't think there's anything nefarious about it.
GaroRobe wrote: I think the simple answer is that empire troops were made for a different game and were kept for AOS until new models were able to replace them.
Though given how advanced kharadron are, and that mechanical limbs exist in AOS for humans, it still feels a bit weird. Especially since some realms like chamon are probably more techy
Cities of Sigmar also have freaking Cogforts. The tech level of these guns doesn't fit with existing tech levels of the cities.
GaroRobe wrote: I think the simple answer is that empire troops were made for a different game and were kept for AOS until new models were able to replace them.
Though given how advanced kharadron are, and that mechanical limbs exist in AOS for humans, it still feels a bit weird. Especially since some realms like chamon are probably more techy
Cities of Sigmar also have freaking Cogforts. The tech level of these guns doesn't fit with existing tech levels of the cities.
By this logic the average real world squadie should be some Deus Ex cyborg.
GaroRobe wrote: I think the simple answer is that empire troops were made for a different game and were kept for AOS until new models were able to replace them.
Though given how advanced kharadron are, and that mechanical limbs exist in AOS for humans, it still feels a bit weird. Especially since some realms like chamon are probably more techy
Cities of Sigmar also have freaking Cogforts. The tech level of these guns doesn't fit with existing tech levels of the cities.
By this logic the average real world squadie should be some Deus Ex cyborg.
Not really, whilst we've made huge advances, we are still a long way off.
But its more like a real world squadie in the UK or USA military today using a flintlock gun.
Yes it works, yes its a gun, yes its a lot simpler than your regular standard issue rile/gun of today. However its still a less refined design that will underperform compared to more modern weaponary.
Again the actual model itself looks fantastic and fine; the concept of it is also great; its just the disparity between the tech level that we see in Lore and artwork and stories and all and the tech level in the model itself. It's a disconnect that makes me think that the design team perhaps got left in the dark or its just that as GW started CoS work without a huge amount of lore/artwork; the sculptors went their own way and this is just one where they leaned on the older look of the Old World lore and designs more htan the AOS
Lore wise though we can probably cover it with them using some kind of super powerful black powder and magic mix that makes them super deadly to big heavy targets (which I'm guessing is what they are for) and makes them viable as options over other gun designs that might be more refind but would shatter with the power of the blast.
GaroRobe wrote: I think the simple answer is that empire troops were made for a different game and were kept for AOS until new models were able to replace them.
Though given how advanced kharadron are, and that mechanical limbs exist in AOS for humans, it still feels a bit weird. Especially since some realms like chamon are probably more techy
That doesn't mean that flintlocks and similar weapons aren't a thing anymore though, those miniatures despite originally being WHFB were still made as much a part of the setting as other stuff is and it's not like we haven't seen them mentioned or outright shown in AoS before.
Personaly I don't like the new primative firearms - as others have said, there are no reasons - religious or political that the military tech would not be advancing - especially since they have a pwoerful idustrial base intergrated with the Dwarfs or various kinds.
If they were some cut off city at the start of the Age etc then it would work better but....for me they just don;t make sense.
The portcullis is unfortunately pretty close to the 'St Michaels Cross', the symbol of the Romanian 'Iron Legions', i.e. Romanian Nazis. Not only in form, but also in colour combination. Not something that was intended obviously, but still not something i'd want to display.
A green portcullis has been used as the emblem of the British parliament since the 12th century.
There is a lot of talk here about the technology of CoS.
First of all, they might not have the money to arm every man with the latest weapon. Do you all drive teslas here?
I mean... the basic unit has plain axes and shields.
And you are saying that they have Cogforts and stuff. Do you have any idea what the Imperium has in 40k?
And the imperial guards look exactly like soldiers look now. Even though it's 38.000 years later!
I really don't know if I can get behind a pavise that's 60% shield and 40% empty air. That's firmly on the stupid side of questionable functionality. GW sculptors should put more effort into getting models on the quirky side instead. That's where Warhammer gets its charm. I wish the sculptors had a better understanding of this.
straken619 wrote: There is a lot of talk here about the technology of CoS.
First of all, they might not have the money to arm every man with the latest weapon. Do you all drive teslas here?
I mean... the basic unit has plain axes and shields.
Quite an absurd comparison.
Up until now, the freeguild handgunners have been one of the Freeguild/cities of sigmar units representing just basic gun-equipped humans, and they have muskets. Now, we get a new cities of sigmar army...and they've gone backwards from that standard of technology that they just - and still do - have. And not only that, but the armour has gone from something simple to an elaborate uniform involving multiple types of armour and decorative metalwork. If they could equip handgunners, and they can equip these guys in that armour, then "they can't afford it" doesn't hold up as an excuse for that.
And just what would you expect shields and axes to be replaced with? There isn't a "latest weapon" that's obviously more technologically advanced than those are.
And you are saying that they have Cogforts and stuff. Do you have any idea what the Imperium has in 40k?
And the imperial guards look exactly like soldiers look now. Even though it's 38.000 years later!
The Imperium isn't meant to be some technologically advanced group using some high-tech sci-fi overtly futuristic looking gear overall. There's a specific reason they look like that, because technology, science and progress are all concepts that have been effectively abandoned and they're making use of whatever they have available that does the job good enough.
And you are saying that they have Cogforts and stuff. Do you have any idea what the Imperium has in 40k?
And the imperial guards look exactly like soldiers look now. Even though it's 38.000 years later!
The Imperium isn't meant to be some technologically advanced group using some high-tech sci-fi overtly futuristic looking gear overall. There's a specific reason they look like that, because technology, science and progress are all concepts that have been effectively abandoned and they're making use of whatever they have available that does the job good enough.
Yep. Consider that the Imperium of Man also makes Space Marines and the only reason they don't just make more of them is basically a religious argument coupled to a 10thousand year fear of another uprising and powerstruggles between different parties and all. Even with the new Primaris that only worked because it was basically built in secret as an army and hidden away from all the infighting and all. Plus even with them there's still potential that a whole swathe of the Imperium could declare them unclean or corrupted or not in the Emperor's Vision or whatever and splinter off.
The Imperium is not sane. Their approach to technology is religious not scientific coupled with some deep seated phobias. Heck just to avoid AI systems and computers they are willing to create servitors. Either using regular people or bred clones (for the most part) to create cyborg slaves. These are also very common, its not rare tech, its your every day tech.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Seriously dude, it's a green portcullis. Not everything needs politics shoved into it.
Just look up what Tsagualsa was talking about.
Spoiler:
Personally I can see the similarities. I don't think it was made on purpose. But put yourself into their shoes. What would you think if you saw something so similar to the emblem used by your local fascists in a miniature game. Personally I think it's first thing I would notice. No politics needed
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Seriously dude, it's a green portcullis. Not everything needs politics shoved into it.
Just look up what Tsagualsa was talking about.
Spoiler:
Personally I can see the similarities. I don't think it was made on purpose. But put yourself into their shoes. What would you think if you saw something so similar to the emblem used by your local fascists in a miniature game. Personally I think it's first thing I would notice. No politics needed
I mean, not really? Looks more like a grid than a portcullis, to me anyway. Doesn't even have any spike shaping at the base or on the top like the painted one. Seems quite a stretch.
overall I like the gunners most from the new models, but there are several things that bother me and don't "work"
Shields having holes is just a bad idea and even if it looks cool it would be the first thing the gunners improvise during a campaign to get those closed (so removing the feet to get flat on the ground and stuff something in the metal)
also the bayonet is a problem, as in the need for dedicated hand gunners next to melee troops was because there was no 1 weapon that could do both, which changed with the bayonet
if the Cities already have that on hand guns, there would be no need for other infantry (without guns) next to cavalry
See something like bayonets I can accept alongside line infantry as a period of technological and army theory change. Ergo its a really new idea and its not tested as much in battle so you've got them but army commanders aren't sure how to best use them and the yare sure how to use their line infantry and such.
Plus close combat in Warhammer games is a big thing. There are many races that will dodge/shrug off or magically deflect ranged weapons. There's a lot of reason to have dedicated close combat units focused on nothing but close combat training and such to be ready for when things get up close and personal.
Not to mention that like many fantasy settings, Warhammer has that element of skill focused training. You train in the 1 thing you do and as a result you do it REALLY well, but its the only thing you do. Only heroes cross-train
Hm, not a fan of the pavise design (stubby "legs", too much scrollwork deco).
Not directly related to AoS/CoS, but this article gives some nice background info on ancient
Ming dynasty guns (including a "composite" weapon with a handgun, shield, spear and axe) :
kodos wrote: also the bayonet is a problem, as in the need for dedicated hand gunners next to melee troops was because there was no 1 weapon that could do both, which changed with the bayonet
if the Cities already have that on hand guns, there would be no need for other infantry (without guns) next to cavalry
Um, no. Just no. Gun with bayonet is no replacement for a proper spear, or better yet, pike. Units of pikemen were used well into Napoleonic wars, despite far better guns, because there was nothing better to tackle cavalry (or indeed, charge gunmen with their silly bayonets). It's only when the artillery weight of fire became too great threat to packed units that can't defend themselves at range these were finally withdrawn. If anything, the problem with these bayonets is the fact they would complicate reloading and such an offset design to facilitate this would be much less effective. I'd do hinged bayonets folded back instead of this here.
kodos wrote: Shields having holes is just a bad idea and even if it looks cool it would be the first thing the gunners improvise during a campaign to get those closed (so removing the feet to get flat on the ground and stuff something in the metal)
You what?
What you said makes no sense as if anything, they would make legs taller (because opponent can't hit that low under shield anyway, see oh, every single hand shield design in history), but there is a limit to this - the shield acts as a gun support, so you'd want the legs tailored to natural shooting stance of every gunner. Ditto with metalwork, makes perfect sense as it has holes small enough to stop all sword/axe cuts and thrusts well, while offering good visibility - these are gunners, they need to see where they are shooting (and 'peek above shield rim' is not an answer because that's where the smoke from a salvo will be the thickest so you need a way to see under that)...
kodos wrote: also the bayonet is a problem, as in the need for dedicated hand gunners next to melee troops was because there was no 1 weapon that could do both, which changed with the bayonet
if the Cities already have that on hand guns, there would be no need for other infantry (without guns) next to cavalry
Um, no. Just no. Gun with bayonet is no replacement for a proper spear, or better yet, pike. Units of pikemen were used well into Napoleonic wars, despite far better guns, because there was nothing better to tackle cavalry (or indeed, charge gunmen with their silly bayonets). It's only when the artillery weight of fire became too great threat to packed units that can't defend themselves at range these were finally withdrawn. If anything, the problem with these bayonets is the fact they would complicate reloading and such an offset design to facilitate this would be much less effective. I'd do hinged bayonets folded back instead of this here.
kodos wrote: Shields having holes is just a bad idea and even if it looks cool it would be the first thing the gunners improvise during a campaign to get those closed (so removing the feet to get flat on the ground and stuff something in the metal)
You what?
What you said makes no sense as if anything, they would make legs taller (because opponent can't hit that low under shield anyway, see oh, every single hand shield design in history), but there is a limit to this - the shield acts as a gun support, so you'd want the legs tailored to natural shooting stance of every gunner. Ditto with metalwork, makes perfect sense as it has holes small enough to stop all sword/axe cuts and thrusts well, while offering good visibility - these are gunners, they need to see where they are shooting (and 'peek above shield rim' is not an answer because that's where the smoke from a salvo will be the thickest so you need a way to see under that)...
Also, actual pavises are not 'shields' in the conventional sense, they're barely mobile; it's a piece of wall/cover you lug into position and then use as a entrenched firing position, mostly (but not only) in siegework or in large battles where it takes literally days for the armies to move into position and get settled in before the confrontation (take e.g. Crecy with the famous Genovese Crossbowmen as an example: pre-battle manoeuvering and skirmishes took three days, and happened in an area of just about 6 miles along a river and inside a valley). Having legs on it is not a hindrance at all for how they would be used, you'd be standing inside some sort of trench or otherwise fortified position anyway. And if your enemy was close enough for you to need bajonets, your plan would be shot to hell already anyway.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Shame about the Phoenix Guard and Sisters of the Thorn. Eh about everything else.
I still feel sorry for the wood elf kits (especially the ones that died in previous cullings). They were good kits, and had a bizarrely short lifespan after a long, long wait for that update.
Weird. Was talking with friends on Tuesday night about the new Cities of Cigmar gunners, and how it didn't make sense for them to have such primitive firearms when regular handgunners exist.
I mentioned that they could Squat the Empire Handgunner kit tomorrow, and suddenly that wouldn't be the case.
I was wrong. They didn't Squat the Empire Handgunner kit the next day. Took 'em a whole extra day to do it, Squatting them on the Thursday night.
Flagellants survive the purge, guess no fanatic kits are coming with the new range. Also the Steam tank is kicking around. so no big chungus cog contraption?
Lending more to this being wave one, and the rest to come out in AOS 4th edt.
I'm surprised by the Demigryphs getting the axe. They're just okay-ish models with good riders but wonky mounts*, but they are pretty "AoS" as a concept - and in my mind still one of the newer Empire kits...I'm officially old, I guess. I guess the Stormcast having basically the same thing but with nicer sculpts and new cavalry coming out with horses that might be bigger than the "monstrous" mounts makes the kit fully irrelevant.
*the heads are so bad...I decapitated one I got from a bits site and used one of the smaller heads of the two-headed griffon to make a big gryph-hound before those were a thing.
Not surprised by Demigryphs getting the axe. They weren't a well-received unit from the outset, and now they can get beefed up to be something more akin to Bruckner & Reaper.
Irbis wrote: Um, no. Just no. Gun with bayonet is no replacement for a proper spear, or better yet, pike. Units of pikemen were used well into Napoleonic wars,
ok, I take it, which one
and I mean not just the honour guard having halberds guarding the regimental flag, which units of pikemen were there during the Napoleonic area?
I mean of course you defend GW's design with the worst possible example, but please show me were they used pikes to defend against cavalry well into the napoleonic wars because the bayonet is not good enough for that
kodos wrote: also the bayonet is a problem, as in the need for dedicated hand gunners next to melee troops was because there was no 1 weapon that could do both, which changed with the bayonet
if the Cities already have that on hand guns, there would be no need for other infantry (without guns) next to cavalry
Um, no. Just no. Gun with bayonet is no replacement for a proper spear, or better yet, pike. Units of pikemen were used well into Napoleonic wars, despite far better guns, because there was nothing better to tackle cavalry (or indeed, charge gunmen with their silly bayonets). It's only when the artillery weight of fire became too great threat to packed units that can't defend themselves at range these were finally withdrawn.
This is absolute nonsense. The only widespread use of pikes during the Napoleonic wars was by Russian militias who didn't have access to better weaponry. Spontoons, halberds and the odd pike were retained by many armies as rank signifiers for NCOs and as arms for colour parties, but they were not a common weapon during that period. In fact European armies had mostly discarded them by the middle of the previous century
You know your little debate about bayonets making sense or not is pointless in Age of Sigmar, where realism isn't the point of the miniatures ?
To me, it's just a question of liking the new style of the free guilds or not. I find it interesting enough, it has a good vibe of Confrontation / Cadwallon miniatures. It's also fitting to some grim fantasy setting if that's your taste (with a less bright paint scheme).
As for some miniatures leaving the AoS range, we knew it was coming. There's no real surprise here, unless you were living under a rock these last months or you simply want to have your daily dose of GW-hating glee. It doesn't really matter so far, since we don't have the full list of the new miniatures...and when we do, we can always play some as "count-as" using the existing profiles (let's be honest, all the leaving elves can be played with the dark elf profiles that will stay).
God this is really a jumble of like four or five centuries worth of stuff here...
I adore it! It feels like something the empire would of fielded if GW had the modelling skills available to them back in WHFB, empire engineer not-skaven-jazeels unit
I just can't get over how the wood bends at a sharp angle on their shields. Maybe not impossible with real wood??? But it just sticks in my mind every time I see them.
I wish GW would give collectors a chance to buy kits (meaning having a lot of stock online) before retiring them. Several kits I would have bought off that list but will now never own because I'm not a whale willing to pay premium prices for crappy handme down models off eBay. Makes me sad.
Gallahad wrote: I just can't get over how the wood bends at a sharp angle on their shields. Maybe not impossible with real wood??? But it just sticks in my mind every time I see them.
I wish GW would give collectors a chance to buy kits (meaning having a lot of stock online) before retiring them. Several kits I would have bought off that list but will now never own because I'm not a whale willing to pay premium prices for crappy handme down models off eBay. Makes me sad.
I suppose you could start out with a block of wood three or four times the thickness of the pavise and cut it down to get that angle? Seems wasteful and not very sturdy, but the things you do in service to your god, eh? I bet that angle is exactly how Sigmar envisioned it.
Or have a life wizard shake a magic stick at the slab of wood and get it to do funky things.
While better than nothing and definitely positive in principle, I don't think GW's last chance to buy announcements do much good overall. They want to get rid of stuff, so they don't stock up before retiring kits. That just doesn't leave much stock to go around for that last chance. They don't seem willing to couple that last chance to buy with a made to order run either, which is probably too much of a strain on their production even if it's the most certain way of getting as much money out of these kits while at the same time pleasing most customers.
It's not exactly helpful that they say most of the kits will come back for The Old World, but don't say which ones aren't so lucky. Not even sure why they don't do that. I believe they were fairly clear on the Forge World stuff they were dropping when they went into 10th ed 40k. They can't seem to be bothered in this instance, though.
But at least a number of those kits aren't retired for good. so that's something at least.
Gallahad wrote: I just can't get over how the wood bends at a sharp angle on their shields. Maybe not impossible with real wood??? But it just sticks in my mind every time I see them.
I wish GW would give collectors a chance to buy kits (meaning having a lot of stock online) before retiring them. Several kits I would have bought off that list but will now never own because I'm not a whale willing to pay premium prices for crappy handme down models off eBay. Makes me sad.
Steam bending is a thing and has been for many, many years.
Steam bending is a thing and has been for many, many years.
Sure, if a curved piece of wood is what you're after.
I'll probably replace those shields with historical kit pavise, or just print some of my own. The wrought iron stuff, table legs and chains are a bit much even for AoS.
Gallahad wrote: I just can't get over how the wood bends at a sharp angle on their shields. Maybe not impossible with real wood??? But it just sticks in my mind every time I see them.
I wish GW would give collectors a chance to buy kits (meaning having a lot of stock online) before retiring them. Several kits I would have bought off that list but will now never own because I'm not a whale willing to pay premium prices for crappy handme down models off eBay. Makes me sad.
Steam bending is a thing and has been for many, many years.
Isn't that used to make curved bends? It is the sharp angles that bother me as I specified in my original post.
Steam bending is a thing and has been for many, many years.
Sure, if a curved piece of wood is what you're after.
I'll probably replace those shields with historical kit pavise, or just print some of my own. The wrought iron stuff, table legs and chains are a bit much even for AoS.
GW kits are so expensive I've decided I have to like the kit 100%. I'm not paying$10 USD per miniature just to spend a bunch of time and money converting them to my tastes.
I really should get around to reading the Callis and Toll stuff at some point.
I find it uniquely engaging, because the Callis & Toll we have now are the archetype of 'old veteran partners' with untold stories of their past experiences and adventures together. But via the novels we also have their younger selves, where they got their start as a team and a sample of the epic stories they lived.
The events of City of Secrets also directly feed into and are referenced by the Broken Realms campaign books, which I thought was just absolutely great to see.
straken619 wrote: Do we have any idea when this warband will be released?
The main release for CoS is in the summer or later?
The main release is meant to be autumn, so i'm going to guesstimate the launch box in August, main release in September. As for these guys, that's what i was curious about above. If they're one of the dedicate Warcry order units, they may come out later with the Kruleboyz or whatever the other destruction band is.
Billicus wrote: You can't stop me using these guys in Frostgrave. No, you can't.
What's the lore explanation for the weird homonculus?
CoS models have weird dudes on a lot of the unit bases. Basically a reference to medieval artwork or just because the mortal realms are meant to be zany
Those are very nice. Pretty surprising to see a unit in AOS using reasonable historical weapons and gear. I'd have expected the dogs to have crossbows on their backs or the people not be wearing shoes or have bandages over their eyes or something.
If I buy them I'd use them as a 2nd unit of Bolton's Bastard's Girls for my Song of Ice and Fire Bolton army. Good fit!
Ditch the helmets (damn, did I go from they're-a-okay to outright eww on those fast) and they'll be pretty decent, even if some of the proportions are... off.
His Master's Voice wrote: Ditch the helmets (damn, did I go from they're-a-okay to outright eww on those fast) and they'll be pretty decent, even if some of the proportions are... off.
Ah well, headswaps are easy, and for Mordheim you'd need to do them anyway in many cases.
His Master's Voice wrote: Ditch the helmets (damn, did I go from they're-a-okay to outright eww on those fast) and they'll be pretty decent, even if some of the proportions are... off.
Ah well, headswaps are easy, and for Mordheim you'd need to do them anyway in many cases.
Maybe the kit has options of bare heads for everyone?
His Master's Voice wrote: Ditch the helmets (damn, did I go from they're-a-okay to outright eww on those fast) and they'll be pretty decent, even if some of the proportions are... off.
Ah well, headswaps are easy, and for Mordheim you'd need to do them anyway in many cases.
Maybe the kit has options of bare heads for everyone?
If it's anything like the other warcry warbands it will have a few options.
From what we have seen so far:
-the bald dude with the spear also has a helmet option, crossbow instead of spear for the right hand and holding his belt instead of the knife for his left arm
-the whistling woman has a bare head and axes option and a different left hand holding a bolt i think
-the crossbow/axe dude with the weird skull-thing on his base has a bare head and spear option
-the hooded man has crossbow and sword instead of dual crossbows but maybe no head option
And I'd be surprised if the leader doesn't have another option
The guy just standing with a spear looks really weird with the proportions, especially in the warcry picture. Really short legs and long arms. Might it be a hobgoblin in disguise?
Ahtman wrote: I don't get the one with what looks like part of a head shoved into his boot covering. Such an odd placement and sculpt to that element.
It’s not in his boot, it’s one of the little medieval doodle critters a few of them have on their base (although it looks like it is attached to the foot because the alt build in the video also has it there). I imagine it could be separated easily enough.
Danny76 wrote: Some of the other CoS have those weird little heads do they? It’s odd..
The way the design studio loves their Nurgling mascots I could see them going, "yeah, so we're doing boring old standard humans in these magical realms. Isn't there anything we can do to put a bit of magic back into this plain army?" So they fall back on little mascot creeps to do the trick.
To be fair people love mascots. One Page Rules did some for their ratman army and people liked them so much they are now doing them for all their other armies.
Tyranid players love rippers
Ork players Squigs
Imperial servitors
Sisters of Battle cherubs
Dogs - dogs everywhere and anywhere
The odd Eldar Cat
of course the mentioned Nurglings.
I also think that for all the amazing fantasy we've got with AoS there are a LOT of creatures in their stories which don't have any artwork nor models of which are the wildlife that we have to kind of make up on our own, hwich is odd for such a visual company to have.
Old World mostly ran on "everything is normal and there's giant rat/lizard men running around.
AoS has whole fantasy realms, but much of the art is still very much "hero character" or battle scenes.
So I like the idea of companion pets and critters; it helps reinforce the high fantasy setting and its starting to actually put some meat on the bare-bones of AoS lore
hephaistosstudios on instagram has posted a compilation of the little base dudes if anyones interested. They include:
Weird-head with legs (Wildcorps Hunters)
Snail shell with legs (Freeguild cavaliers)
Blobby thing with eyestalk (Wildcorps Hunters)
LIttle dino dude sticking out his tongue (Freeguild Fusilier)
Bird skull with legs (Wildcorps Hunters)
Fishy thing with legs (Freeguild Fusilier)
GaroRobe wrote: hephaistosstudios on instagram has posted a compilation of the little base dudes if anyones interested. They include:
Weird-head with legs (Wildcorps Hunters)
Snail shell with legs (Freeguild cavaliers)
Blobby thing with eyestalk (Wildcorps Hunters)
LIttle dino dude sticking out his tongue (Freeguild Fusilier)
Bird skull with legs (Wildcorps Hunters)
Fishy thing with legs (Freeguild Fusilier)
Until proven otherwise, my headcanon is that the bird skull and snail shell on legs are actually the same species, and it just moves between different bits of protective armour like a hermit crab.
Overread wrote: To be fair people love mascots. One Page Rules did some for their ratman army and people liked them so much they are now doing them for all their other armies.
Tyranid players love rippers
Ork players Squigs
Imperial servitors
Sisters of Battle cherubs
Dogs - dogs everywhere and anywhere
The odd Eldar Cat
of course the mentioned Nurglings.
I also think that for all the amazing fantasy we've got with AoS there are a LOT of creatures in their stories which don't have any artwork nor models of which are the wildlife that we have to kind of make up on our own, hwich is odd for such a visual company to have.
Old World mostly ran on "everything is normal and there's giant rat/lizard men running around.
AoS has whole fantasy realms, but much of the art is still very much "hero character" or battle scenes.
So I like the idea of companion pets and critters; it helps reinforce the high fantasy setting and its starting to actually put some meat on the bare-bones of AoS lore
You forgot crab.
Also, I always thought the Orks mascot critter were grots? Squigs get too much respect.
Not a particularly exciting box, but it works.
I avoided the previous box (start collecting) because of the old saurus, despite the value in the big lizard mounted character. But this seems largely worthwhile.
Is GW ever going to get off the pot and actually redo the Skaven range?
Feel like they have had drips of new models not amounting to much.
And a lot of their range looks like ass.
Is GW ever going to get off the pot and actually redo the Skaven range?
Feel like they have had drips of new models not amounting to much.
And a lot of their range looks like ass.
I think there are rumours (not sure how reliable) of Skaven being one of the factions in the 4th Starter next year.
It would be nice. It would just leave poor Beastmen sitting on the pot for a full range redo. Although Ogors could do with some love, but they're not desperate for it.
AoS is a mess of armies that need big updates or additoins.
You've got the likes of Skaven running around with a huge roster of models but a LOT of old stuff; armies like Flesheaters and Fyreslayers with honestly pitiful unit rosters; armies like Daughters of Khaine and Deepkin who feel like they are doing good but need another block of models adding
It's not as quite as dramatic as you make it. The only two that need significant work are skaven and Beastmen. Skaven of which are getting stronger rumours for next edition.
Flesheaters are again another strong rumour for a chunky wave with their book in winter. Having built and played Fyreslayers recently, I don't agree they actually need much more. Maybe a small cavalry type and a heavier infantry, but they work well as they are at the moment.
Pretty much all the armies "work" mechanically. My point is more about variety of builds, quality and modern models as well as variety of choice within the army.
Fyreslayers work, but there's no denying that for a high fantasy army they are very short on options - not even a single war engine or weapon and only one fantasy beast in the magmadroth.
Same for how the game has 4 unit limit slots (leader, troop, monster, artillery) and yet most armies don't have any artillery models to speak of.
It's by no means as bad as it was at launch; but you compare an army like Stormcast or Skaven to forces like Ossiarchs, Flesheaters, etc... .and there's a world of difference in the model range.
Is GW ever going to get off the pot and actually redo the Skaven range?
Feel like they have had drips of new models not amounting to much.
And a lot of their range looks like ass.
Redoing ranges just takes time while they are also working on other stuff. Also, with a really old range like Skaven I imagine something like an edition release would be the best moment to do a refresh like they did with Necrons and Tyranids.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's not as quite as dramatic as you make it. The only two that need significant work are skaven and Beastmen. Skaven of which are getting stronger rumours for next edition.
Flesheaters are again another strong rumour for a chunky wave with their book in winter. Having built and played Fyreslayers recently, I don't agree they actually need much more. Maybe a small cavalry type and a heavier infantry, but they work well as they are at the moment.
Fyreslayers may play fine (and I don't keep up with the newest tournament results so I don't know about this), but for a model company GW has left them out in the cold. Two nearly identical unit boxes and a monster is crazy.
I am also just curious about responses like yours. Do you not want more attention on AoS? You don't want to concede the game you like needs any help?
I want attention where it's needed, not just for the sake of it. You do that, you get junk like the space marine dex where it outdoes every other range by 3:1. I'd rather that stuff like Skaven and Beastmen get the full attention and then go back and revisit.
I don't think anyone ever expects GW to go full marine attention on any other army - even their attempts to do it with Stormcast were shelved in the end.
Indeed that kind of hyper attention can be detrimental to the creative freedom of the model range because so much gets soaked up making models along the same design concepts for one faction and its myriad of subfactions.
That said when you've armies like fyrslayers who have so little variety and choice in a game where most armies are well equipped with variety and choice; its just good sense for most to hope that GW will one way revisit them and give them more options. We don't expect 12 subfactions worth of models; just 1 full faction's worth.
Different models; more troops; more beasts; more war engines; more than just endless leaders
Plus just look at Lumineth - more diverse model ranges let you work in more design niches; more options; more variety and more visual identity which helps drive popularity and sales. Genestealer Cults are another where their big second wave of models helped further separate them from the Imperial Guard. Cults look FAR better as a single army of rag-tag miners and repurposed vehicles than one or two miners and then an Imperial Guard army with a few symbols tacked on.
Personally I get the feeling GW is focusing on phasing out all kinds of metals and resins from their core products. Skaven tend to be a huge part of that problem whereas Fyreslayers are not, so I can easily imagine Skaven getting attention first.
Eldarsif wrote: Personally I get the feeling GW is focusing on phasing out all kinds of metals and resins from their core products. Skaven tend to be a huge part of that problem whereas Fyreslayers are not, so I can easily imagine Skaven getting attention first.
Skaven are in the 4th edition launch box. They'll be getting a full revamp next year with a whole bunch of kits.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I want attention where it's needed, not just for the sake of it. You do that, you get junk like the space marine dex where it outdoes every other range by 3:1. I'd rather that stuff like Skaven and Beastmen get the full attention and then go back and revisit.
Those have vast range already. Far from most pressing need
Is GW ever going to get off the pot and actually redo the Skaven range?
Feel like they have had drips of new models not amounting to much.
And a lot of their range looks like ass.
I think there are rumours (not sure how reliable) of Skaven being one of the factions in the 4th Starter next year.
IIRC it's strongly hinted at by Whitefang over at TGA, which is about as solid as rumours get nowadays.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I want attention where it's needed, not just for the sake of it. You do that, you get junk like the space marine dex where it outdoes every other range by 3:1. I'd rather that stuff like Skaven and Beastmen get the full attention and then go back and revisit.
Those have vast range already. Far from most pressing need
It's about getting them up to standard. Both of those are well beyond time for a redo.
Ooh, yes! The gargoylian needs just some wings to be a proper ddraig goch, and the Pontifex has potential for so many conversions beyond his already really cool look.
