A birdy told Darnok over at Warseer the following:

WD is changing in a fairly big way. They are moving out of the design studio into completely new offices and have brought in an outsider to head up the new format magazine (a former editor of a major successful magazine). The new magazine will have increased content and is being invested in with more money by GW in an attempt to break with the concept amongst many readers that it is little more than a figures advert. They've been working on the new mag since early May (4 WDs have been released since), so I'd expect the first of the new look fairly soon, but it would give us an idea on internal turn around times when it appears...

Took them long enough. WD has been a mere shadow of its former self for years and an attempt to make it worth buying would be welcome.

I think I overheard at some point it's supposed to look like the Edge magazine?

This is good news, I hope it comes to pass.

Wasn't there something similar said last year about a revamp and more content.

It is good that GW is trying to improve White Dwarf. However, there are probably better uses of their money, as it is my understanding that the magazine industry is really hurting, just like the newspaper business.

GW just needs to embrace traditional advertising, and cooperate with other businesses to prevent threats like DUST by Fantasy Flight from taking hold. It may be too late for the latter.

,,,looks like GW finally got tired of seeing their sales of WD declining... thats good.

They brought in a professional editor before, then overruled him when his professional opinion disagreed with GW ideology.

Haven't we seen this thread once every 18 months or so? I remember the Sisters of Battle issue was supposed to be the start of a major overhaul introducing content...

Yeah.

As long as GW insists all WD content should be created internally, no editor will ever bring back the quality of ye olden days - most of the good stuff back then was created outside of the studio, by people who really cared about the stuff they did. And it showed.

It'll be quite nice for it to actually have some nice content in it.

However to save time, I brought this along.

The new magazine will have increased content...

They need to create a foundation of content before they can discuss any increases.

...attempt to break with the concept amongst many readers that it is little more than a figures advert.

Concept? Concept?!? Are you effing serious?

Wasn't there something similar said last year about a revamp and more content.

I'm guessing the one or two pages of rules for the Stormtalon and Fightabomma met their definition.

I'm also fairly sceptical of this...

GW's current philosophy seems to be "nothing for free". There was a total absence of stage by stage painting guides for Daemon's last month BUT they did release a digital download daemon painting guide that you had to pay for.

How can you make a hobby magazine good when management decree that even the very basic hobbying skills have to be siphoned off and sold seperately?

We'll see. I haven't bought a white dwarf in years. New format is gonna have to blow me away to change that, and I can't be the only one.

It'd be nice, but we've heard it before. I think most folks don't really care anymore, honestly. We have Dakka for news/hobby stuff

Look... since I started posting here oh so many moons ago I've seen a dozen such 'announcements' that, WD is 'changing' and will be 'better'.

How many times can a small man with a white beard cry 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

It'd be nice to have a WD which had content relevent to the hobby as opposed to just telling us how much said hobby is going to cost us.

As others have said already, a White Dwarf that wasn't a waste of a fiver would be nice, but it's been such a long time (more than a decade) since the magazine's been worthwhile that it would take something quite profound to draw me back in, particularly given that the void left unfilled by WD for so many years has since been comprehensively filled (for free!) by Dakka and other sites.

I heard this from an inside source two months ago.
This rumor is very likely,WD as of now is crap and they know it.
They'll never offically say it,but the studio hates it too.
They want the old days back too in regards to WD when they had tutorials and supplemental rules.

It is a no brainer,I could care less about a Evey Metal painters game and when you take out that and the adverts.
You have about 3-4 usable pages.
They had it right back at the time of issue 300

That sucessful editor was a big force for his old magazine going digital as well
Just saying

Think digital? So another iPad exclusive? No thanks.

iPad exclusive digital White Dwarf? Yeah, I could believe that. It would remove a big logistics circus from the process, give GW better control over release dates (handily stopping even more leaks) and gives them the opportunity to keep selling White Dwarf issues perpetually. Nothing need ever go out of print again.

Not exclusive you can get quite a few magazines in both paper and digital
Cosmo,Maxim,Fine Scale Modeler,The Enquirer.

It will still be a mag,you can also just download it soon if that is your preference

 George Spiggott wrote:
They brought in a professional editor before, then overruled him when his professional opinion disagreed with GW ideology.

I work in publishing and this is sadly a very prevalent mindset.

"Hire the best talent in the market so I can ignore the crap out of him/her!"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How many times can a small man with a white beard not be eaten by the 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I don't think it's gullability, H.B.M.C. I think most people are just waiting for the wolf to kill him and be done with it.

 Eisenhorn wrote:
I heard this from an inside source two months ago.
This rumor is very likely,WD as of now is crap and they know it.

I would like to confirm Eisenhorn's confirmation ..

Again I can't confirm the source, but heard exactly the same thing several months ago.

Great news, and I think time to break out the emoticons!

Still going to be $9 + an issue?
If so, they can keep it.

 Gitkikka wrote:
Still going to be $9 + an issue?
If so, they can keep it.

If they actually start churning out real content (army and model updates, real guides for making scenery, bases, conversions, alternate rules for tournaments or variants), I think they are entitled to charge for it, even if other companies offer it for free. I for one will pay for good content with a smile on my face, especially in a setting that sorely needs more frequent updating like WH40k.

I agree with the above poster that the price is just outrageous. They should drop the price back to the $5 an issue and release more content online. Or at the very least offer online subscriptions for less.

It's going to take a lot to get me to resubscribe. Such as a cheap price for subscribers, like every single other magazine in the whole world. But cheap is a 4 letter word for GW.

They've been saying "OMG it's gonna change and there's gonna be great stuffs!@!!" for like 2 years now. I'll believe it when I see it.

Not trying to be a troll, just not really expecting it to change all the much...

 Sephyr wrote:

 Gitkikka wrote:
Still going to be $9 + an issue?
If so, they can keep it.

If they actually start churning out real content (army and model updates, real guides for making scenery, bases, conversions, alternate rules for tournaments or variants), I think they are entitled to charge for it, even if other companies offer it for free. I for one will pay for good content with a smile on my face, especially in a setting that sorely needs more frequent updating like WH40k.

You do that. I don't believe that they'll be able to turn it around enough enough to justify that price.

They could just always rehire Fat Bloke or any of the other staff from before it all went to pants instead of sticking with the current useless writers with a new editor... What's Jervis doing these days? A little of his input in the management area would probably go a long way. =P

 Sephyr wrote:

 Gitkikka wrote:
Still going to be $9 + an issue?
If so, they can keep it.

If they actually start churning out real content (army and model updates, real guides for making scenery, bases, conversions, alternate rules for tournaments or variants), I think they are entitled to charge for it, even if other companies offer it for free. I for one will pay for good content with a smile on my face, especially in a setting that sorely needs more frequent updating like WH40k.

See, this is what I don't get.

Why pay for any of that? It's all here on the internet, totally free. And everyone on the internet (that is to say, everyone that hates WD) already knows it. Hiring better staff and increasing the 'content' of the magazine isn't going to change that, and it won't improve WD's sales.

I can't understand anyone getting excited about an announcement like this. What are you suddenly expecting? Terrain articles that are better than you'll find on terragenesis, or Dakka's P&M blogs? Painting guides better than Youtube? Tournament rules that anyone is actually going to adhere to, when there are dozens of established tournament formats already?

 Breotan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How many times can a small man with a white beard not be eaten by the 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I don't think it's gullability, H.B.M.C. I think most people are just waiting for the wolf to kill him and be done with it.

Personally I think he is actually the wolf and waiting for us to stop suspecting the ears and tail. I think he'll be crying wolf for a very long time.

 Pacific wrote:

 Eisenhorn wrote:
I heard this from an inside source two months ago.
This rumor is very likely,WD as of now is crap and they know it.

I would like to confirm Eisenhorn's confirmation ..

Again I can't confirm the source, but heard exactly the same thing several months ago.

Great news, and I think time to break out the emoticons!

Delighted as I would be at that news (and delighted as I am by that cavalcade of happy .gifs) I really struggle to credit GW with the capacity for that level of honest self-reflection.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
... What's Jervis doing these days? A little of his input in the management area would probably go a long way. =P

I think he's sitting alone in his empty office, rocking back-and-forth while whimpering "I've got an Origins award, you know...".

I wonder if it will be less of a figures advert now.

I'd love to resubscribe to a WD with actual good, interesting content.

But...

 Necros wrote:
It's going to take a lot to get me to resubscribe. Such as a cheap price for subscribers, like every single other magazine in the whole world.

THIS!

If they want to be an actual 'magazine', they really should cut subscribers an actual break!

Aside from, of course, having stuff worth reading in it...

 Kaldor wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

 Gitkikka wrote:
Still going to be $9 + an issue?
If so, they can keep it.

If they actually start churning out real content (army and model updates, real guides for making scenery, bases, conversions, alternate rules for tournaments or variants), I think they are entitled to charge for it, even if other companies offer it for free. I for one will pay for good content with a smile on my face, especially in a setting that sorely needs more frequent updating like WH40k.

See, this is what I don't get.

Why pay for any of that? It's all here on the internet, totally free. And everyone on the internet (that is to say, everyone that hates WD) already knows it. Hiring better staff and increasing the 'content' of the magazine isn't going to change that, and it won't improve WD's sales.

I can't understand anyone getting excited about an announcement like this. What are you suddenly expecting? Terrain articles that are better than you'll find on terragenesis, or Dakka's P&M blogs? Painting guides better than Youtube? Tournament rules that anyone is actually going to adhere to, when there are dozens of established tournament formats already?

A hard copy goes along way. I work in a paperless office appearantly, we print and file paper as much as ever. People (me included) just prefer a hard copy in hand over melting their eyesight on a VDU/PDA 10 hours a day.

Hard copy is bleeding edge portable technology as well and as porn has taught us, you can read it one handed (I hear :')) ideal for following painting articles. It's also robust, cheap, compact, recyclable, and easily available.

So the ideal format to convey hobby information all we need now is content - we're fethed then!

 Kaldor wrote:
What are you suddenly expecting?

Back when WD had real content in it, it was really well made. As in, beating the snot out of 99% of all online content in terms of production values. Some people are willing to pay for that.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
They could just always rehire Fat Bloke or any of the other staff from before it all went to pants instead of sticking with the current useless writers with a new editor... What's Jervis doing these days? A little of his input in the management area would probably go a long way. =P

Yeah somehow very, very unlikely as he and Stallard run Warlord Games and moved back into Historical stuff (must say which I quite like actually)

One problem that occurs to me is that they can't generate enough varied content having only three game systems. WD as its best was during a time when they had several games and were churning out content for all of them. Currently the whole magazine is dedicated to pushing the latest releases in only three games, if your remit is to do that, there not much room for creativity.

I can remember the days when White Dwarf was a gaming hobby magazine, not a monthly catalog for GW alone. They had articles for D&D, Traveller, Call of Cthulhu and even a couple of new kids on the block, Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer 40,000. I don't mind the GW only mindset, but com'on, let's get back to the Hobby side of the house! Let's see some articles on kitbashing, scenery, painting, and even some fun little optional/homebrew rules we can try out for our games.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
They could just always rehire Fat Bloke or any of the other staff from before it all went to pants instead of sticking with the current useless writers with a new editor... What's Jervis doing these days? A little of his input in the management area would probably go a long way. =P

Paul Sawyer, now known as "PAULUS MAXIMUS", helps run Warlord Games with a few other ex-GW blokes. Jervis writes for WD.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How many times can a small man with a white beard not be eaten by the 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I don't think it's gullability, H.B.M.C. I think most people are just waiting for the wolf to kill him and be done with it.

Personally I think he is actually the wolf and waiting for us to stop suspecting the ears and tail. I think he'll be crying wolf for a very long time.

Now you've lost me. Who is the wolf in this (overly extended) metaphor?

 Kaldor wrote:
Terrain articles that are better than you'll find on terragenesis, or Dakka's P&M blogs?

Terragenesis? Seriously? The newest article there is from 2008.

Well, here's hoping. Each month I think to myself "that issue was crap, time to unsubscribe" yet still find myself waiting on the next issue coming through the letter box. Seriously, I'm like the bitch in an abusive relationship... "it's ok, it'll all change soon...!"

Let's look at what GW has plenty of, and how they can incorporate that in to WD:

Massive customer base: have a big article on customer armies (and not just the armies on parade advert for "buy our RoBB"). This could include homebrew chapters / forces, focus on painting styles that differ to those used by the GW lot, homebrew fluff, anything you can think of could go here. You could even have 2 customers duke it out and write a battle report on that!

A hell of a lot of good fiction writers: get the BL guys to monthly short stories that are exclusive to the pages of WD.

And other things that I can't think of off the top of my head

All I can say is;

Is it September already?

You can almost set your watch to these attempts at revamping WD.

See you again in 12 months thread.

Even the point at which White Dwarf moved to supporting only GW material, it still had its good days, and (something inconceivable today) there are articles from more than two decades ago which remain useful; on Sunday afternoon a friend and I played Strike Deep, a Space Hulk campaign originally published in #149, originally purchased for £1.95 by my twelve year-old self from the Cheltenham branch of WH Smith one afternoon in May 1992.

Ironically, it's just this kind of content (scenarios and campaign material) which would not only persuade me to buy another White Dwarf, but which might indeed convince me that all this "forging a narrative" business is a genuine design commitment, rather than just a shallow, cynical excuse for poorly-balanced rules.

 Kaldor wrote:


Why pay for any of that? It's all here on the internet, totally free. And everyone on the internet (that is to say, everyone that hates WD) already knows it. Hiring better staff and increasing the 'content' of the magazine isn't going to change that, and it won't improve WD's sales.

Just like the rising of the sun, here comes Kaldor commenting in a WD thread about the printed medium

Please, just go out and buy another of some of the well-written magazines out there. 'The Word' (music mag- not sure if you can buy in Aus?), Total Film, Empire, there is a long list of worthwhile reads. They feature articles written about interesting comment, and that have been written by people who have made a career out of writing well. That, I think more than anything else, is what is missing from current editions of WD. As way of comparison, go back to a WD pre-310 or so and see how much the magazine is missing these days.

Yes, no doubt the printed magazine market has had some grievous wounds from the internet, but at the same time some of the stuff still out there offers genuinely more. Don't get me wrong the internet is a revolutionary tool in terms of providing greater access than ever to a greater spread of content - but at the same time, there is an awful lot of crap out there as well, and sometimes when you get home from work I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I just want to put my feet up and spend an hour reading some quality journalism. The price I can live with (it's pretty much the going rate for magazines these days), but the lack of worthwhile content in combination I think has been the killer for people. And, as the head-honchos at GW apparently think the same, I think it is pretty indefensible on that issue.

I for one am all for a new WD 'Super Group', of the great WD staff over the ages coming back to write content for the magazine.

But the key here is that they write, rather than just show photos of sprues and have more adverts than a copy of Cosmopolitan.

Howard Treesong wrote:One problem that occurs to me is that they can't generate enough varied content having only three game systems. WD as its best was during a time when they had several games and were churning out content for all of them. Currently the whole magazine is dedicated to pushing the latest releases in only three games, if your remit is to do that, there not much room for creativity.

Yes, I think that is definitely an issue! Essentially I think WD needs some money spending on it, in paying more impartial journalists, real hobbyists, to write articles. I'm not sure how likely this will be however.

WD is a joke. Its not a hobby mag its advertising wich we the stupid idiots pay for.

Wtf, $110 for a years subscription? I only save $10 whipy do da day. Wd is nothing but a joke. Can they even fix this pos?

This is like the 4th time now wd is suppose to get better. I will believe it when I see it. Maybe when the pyrovore will become usefull or the second coming of christ.

The more I think about it, the more I just want them to bring back Black Gobbo.

I would buy it if they put articles in from the specialist lines, put some battle reports in where they talked about what they were doing, through in some fun missions, the occasional new vehicle, or something that could start a league going. Just my thoughts though. I was a fan of Paul Sawyer when he did the WD.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How many times can a small man with a white beard not be eaten by the 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I don't think it's gullability, H.B.M.C. I think most people are just waiting for the wolf to kill him and be done with it.

Personally I think he is actually the wolf and waiting for us to stop suspecting the ears and tail. I think he'll be crying wolf for a very long time.

Now you've lost me. Who is the wolf in this (overly extended) metaphor?

That is the mystery behind the White Dwarf.

Who exactly is this midget wolf with a white beard, and why is he so intent on hiding worthwhile content from the masses?

I miss the Fu#} out of Black Gobbo.
That was the best hands down

 Compel wrote:
I think I overheard at some point it's supposed to look like the Edge magazine?

white dwarf pales in comparison to edge.


bring back the black gobbo, I say!

 Kalamadea wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I just want them to bring back Black Gobbo.

That was great stuff right there! They had fun articles.



edit.

Don't forget Ty!

I wonder if they'll drop a reveal of an iPad subscription model for a digital magazine. I wouldn't be surprised if GW jumped on that bandwagon 2 years late.

So what is the over/under on what the price 'adjustment' for the revamped WD will be? I'm in a gambling mood.

I dug out a few old WDs from my closet to have a look over. Issue 168 (Australian) was the one I perused to be specific. More ads than I remember, but that being said the articles more than make up for it IMO.

4 pages on the Death Company which include their fluff and the whole unit entry with stats and rules. 14 pages about Skaven, including a map of their empire under the Empire, their entire history, and a few small stories. 4 pages on Marine Assault squads, their fluff, tactics, and full unit entry. 17 page Epic battle report with 90's top down computer graphic map (the greatest battle report graphics ever, search your heart you know it to be true).

There is then 21 pages of the model catalogue for various game ranges. The useful catalogue type that showed the individual bits/sprue, with model ID for easy ordering, and assembly instructions. All conveniently located at the back in a single grouping and completely avoidable if you want. Interspersed between, and even in, the articles are various ads relevant to the entry you are reading. Nothing shoehorned for the most part.

So despite probably having roughly the same amount of ads, possibly even less now that I look at it, it feels far less forced given the amount/quality of other content in there to wet ones whistle. And this isn't even an issue that came with an insert.

And a nice little kicker. Right at the top. It is completely honest with you. 'Games Workshop presents its monthly hobby supplement and miniatures catalogue'. The new ones just say 'White Dwarf'.

I remember when I used to be super excited that a new WD was out. I couldn't tell you the last time that happened. Maybe 3rd Ed Grey Knights, and even then only because it had Grey Knights in power armor for the first time. Which was largely due to my old Dark Millennium nostalgia.

Did anyone else buy those other magazines like Fanatic? Or any of the later Specialist geared ones? I loved those. We need those back. And more things like them.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
One problem that occurs to me is that they can't generate enough varied content having only three game systems. WD as its best was during a time when they had several games and were churning out content for all of them. Currently the whole magazine is dedicated to pushing the latest releases in only three games, if your remit is to do that, there not much room for creativity.

I've not bought a WD for a loooooong time. One thing that might tempt me back is if they actually started supporting some of their "unsupported" games in it; you know, terrain guides for 'munda and Mord, making BB teams from WHFB kits, BFG battle board painting tips, etc.

They tried promoting SG back then, but man was that a half-assed attempt at trying..

Use it as an opportunity to bring back the lesser played games like Blood Bowl or BFG. Someone said GW only has 3 game systems but they actually have Mordheim, BB, BFG,WH, 40K, dread fleet, epic, necromunda, and warmaster. Think of all they could do to grow their other systems!! If you want to increase market share and you are peaked with the other two systems this is the best and cheapest way to do it!!

The other thing is that people want more 'hobby content'. But this is often at odds with the direction GW has taken in recent years which is why I'm sceptical about magazine overhauls. They want you to buy their RoB table and all their plastic scenery kits. Any terrain article will simply be about making one of those kits, or kitbashing several of those kits together.

Terrain making used to be frequently encouraged by describing it as being a cheap and fun side of the hobby. Well they're hardly going to tell you that now and make a point of showing you each month how to make scenery on the cheap when they're specifically trying to sell you kits for the table.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
I've not bought a WD for a loooooong time. One thing that might tempt me back is if they actually started supporting some of their "unsupported" games in it; you know, terrain guides for 'munda and Mord, making BB teams from WHFB kits, BFG battle board painting tips, etc.

 Fishboy wrote:
Use it as an opportunity to bring back the lesser played games like Blood Bowl or BFG. Someone said GW only has 3 game systems but they actually have Mordheim, BB, BFG,WH, 40K, dread fleet, epic, necromunda, and warmaster. Think of all they could do to grow their other systems!! If you want to increase market share and you are peaked with the other two systems this is the best and cheapest way to do it!!

Whilst the idea of them picking up those lines again literally makes me salivate at the potential prospects, the thought of what they would do with them under their current ideology scares me. Especially with the antics they pulled with the fanbases when they weren't even supporting them anymore. My only hope is that they have forgotten where they buried the bodies of their old games, lest they exhume them, shove a Citadel Finecast pole up their rectums, and start charging admission for the puppet show. GW can't hurt them now. They are in a better place. The hearts, minds and hands of the fanbases. And that is where they should stay until the end of time, or a company that deserves them comes along.

I had the same thought with covering RTT's and large events too. It would excite the player base but the events would not be theirs so I doubt you would ever see them cover them. aaa....the good old days hehe. I miss seeing my own stuff in White Dwarf and on the website.

 Fishboy wrote:
Use it as an opportunity to bring back the lesser played games like Blood Bowl or BFG. Someone said GW only has 3 game systems but they actually have Mordheim, BB, BFG,WH, 40K, dread fleet, epic, necromunda, and warmaster. Think of all they could do to grow their other systems!! If you want to increase market share and you are peaked with the other two systems this is the best and cheapest way to do it!!

Sadly, GW's logic (which may or may not be correct, but which has been repeated to me by a number of people fairly high up in the company) has been for the last decade or so that games like Blood Bowl and Necromunda, which require vastly fewer miniatures, simply don't generate their desired level of profitability. The there's the problem of the economics of scale; a "peripheral" game like Battlefleet Gothic might, say, contribute 5% to GW's gross profits, and still turn a profit itself, but would require more than 5% of their corporate expenditure to produce and support, hence again provide a lower rate of return. Moreover, GW persist in the belief that they operate in a vacuum, and their business decisions are made in the assumption that any money not spent on their peripheral games will instead be spent on one of their core products anyway.

The upside to this policy, of course, is that it has created market niches into which Infinity, Dark Age, Malifaux and various Mantic offerings (specifically Project Pandora and now DreadBall) have fitted well, and which have given us a whole raft of new games, most of them greatly more sophisticated and distinctive than their GW predecessors.

The thing that bugs me with the supposed "Upper Management very aware that WD has declined in quality," story is that, if you're well aware that something is rubbish, why let it continue to be rubbish. It costs nothing to rewind the clock to even 12 months ago when WD still contained the odd article of interest. By all means hire some new magazine guru to sort things out, but you would at least address some of the problems in the meantime.

Yet if anything they've accelerated the magazine's downward trajectory in quality over the last few months. I really do pity Andrew Kenrick (current editor). Nobody could be that rubbish at generating ideas for decent articles. It obvious his strings are well and truly being pulled. In particular, it must have been soul destroying to have to type the following sentence in his editorial this month...

"But that's not all, of course! This is a rather hobby packed issue too."

...knowing it was a downright lie.

And I'm not being facetious, there really are no hobby articles whatsoever, just pictures of GW staff armies and individual miniatures.

IMO, the recent Space Hulk boxed set was one of the best things GW have ever done...then it just vanished. I know people who were never into mini-wargaming, play that game, because they were impressed. Now, you would think that a wise person at GW would say - holy cow SH is selling well, let's do a expansion or publish a few extra brand new missions in WD. Not only will we keep SH momentum going, we can flog a few copies of WD. Now, like the earlier poster, I yearn for the days when GW used to do this, hell they more or less gave away a SH expansion back in the day through WD.

Ditto dreadfleet. They had the means to give a brand new plastic ship away through WD (maybe an Orc ship) and a few new missions. Instead, it died on its backside. What a waste of a game, and what a waste of a once fine magazine.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
IMO, the recent Space Hulk boxed set was one of the best things GW have ever done...then it just vanished. I know people who were never into mini-wargaming, play that game, because they were impressed. Now, you would think that a wise person at GW would say - holy cow SH is selling well, let's do a expansion or publish a few extra brand new missions in WD. Not only will we keep SH momentum going, we can flog a few copies of WD. Now, like the earlier poster, I yearn for the days when GW used to do this, hell they more or less gave away a SH expansion back in the day through WD.

Ditto dreadfleet. They had the means to give a brand new plastic ship away through WD (maybe an Orc ship) and a few new missions. Instead, it died on its backside. What a waste of a game, and what a waste of a once fine magazine.

I fairness, though I entirely agree that Space Hulk deserved better (i.e. any) support, Dread Fleet, despite having some snazzy components, was doomed to deserved obscurity, having all the tactical depth and room for meaningful decision-making of snakes and ladders, while costing £70 and taking three hours to play.

I was trying to figure out what White Dwarf could give me that Dakkadakka can't. Other than paper cuts.

I can't think of anything.

I'd like to see more detailed how-to-paint guys and more exclusive fluff. You can't get the latter online, unless it's copypasta'd from the WD issue itself.

We're already seeing it worth slightly more in any regard. Just about every month has exclusive rules in it for stuff not found in the codex. And according to rumors GW intends to keep this up monthly.

 Harriticus wrote:
We're already seeing it worth slightly more in any regard. Just about every month has exclusive rules in it for stuff not found in the codex. And according to rumors GW intends to keep this up monthly.

Just not this month

 Harriticus wrote:
I'd like to see more detailed how-to-paint guys and more exclusive fluff. You can't get the latter online, unless it's copypasta'd from the WD issue itself.

We're already seeing it worth slightly more in any regard. Just about every month has exclusive rules in it for stuff not found in the codex. And according to rumors GW intends to keep this up monthly.

There are several good hobby articles about, see winterdyne's fantastic pdf about applying decals. would never make it in a gw magazine because winter uses microsol and microset. gw offers no such analogue. and his/her writing is vastly better than the quality in white dwarf.

The last WD i bought was in 2007, at least they are going to revamp it. Miss the old WD's.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
IMO, the recent Space Hulk boxed set was one of the best things GW have ever done...then it just vanished. I know people who were never into mini-wargaming, play that game, because they were impressed. Now, you would think that a wise person at GW would say - holy cow SH is selling well, let's do a expansion or publish a few extra brand new missions in WD. Not only will we keep SH momentum going, we can flog a few copies of WD. Now, like the earlier poster, I yearn for the days when GW used to do this, hell they more or less gave away a SH expansion back in the day through WD.

Ditto dreadfleet. They had the means to give a brand new plastic ship away through WD (maybe an Orc ship) and a few new missions. Instead, it died on its backside. What a waste of a game, and what a waste of a once fine magazine.

I still wish they'd come out with a more stream lined rule set that could either tie into space hulk, or simply be a fairly well balanced small point game to better compete with things like warmahordes. If people could buy $100.00 worth of minis and play a truly balanced and tournament friendly game perhaps we'd see a higher influx of new customers.

[rant]
The most recent White Dwarf (WD392) is complete sadly pathetic, it's complete and utter gak. There is absolutely zero useful information, zero intriguing articles, zero engaging write ups... It is literally cover to cover ads and garbage. I know WD hasn't been the greatest, but this one is outright insulting.

Kroothawk wrote:A birdy told Darnok over at Warseer the following:

...an attempt to break with the concept amongst many readers that it is little more than a figures advert. ...

They need to announce that they canned the current editor and apologize for incompetent ass.
[/rant]

That's a little...strong.

Not having a discount for subscribers (like every other magazine, including Playboy) is just plain silly.

More 40k scenarios is always welcome, as would be special characters and the like.

However, the fact that they recently haven't made WD codex entries (DakkaJet, Chaos Daemons, Sisters of Battle) available elsewhere unless you own an iPad is even worse than silly, I'm afraid.

Since "discovering" Warhammer and WH40K a couple of years ago ( Actually I remember watching folks play this back in the late 80's/90's but was not interested at the time - too much into RPG's ! ) , I have gathered a complete WD collection back to the issues in the 70 range . Still working my way back slowly . Just picked copies of 101 and 110 . Now WD's of that era are truly a joy to read - chock full of details , weirdness and tidbits as well as good painting and hobby tips . Compare to anything above WD 350+ which really seems to be quite devoid of content except pictures of stuff I can buy if I feel inclined . Really nothing inspirational at all . If they were to drop the adds a notch or two and seriously up the fluff and hobby content I think it would be a great attempt at a return to form .

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
One problem that occurs to me is that they can't generate enough varied content having only three game systems. WD as its best was during a time when they had several games and were churning out content for all of them. Currently the whole magazine is dedicated to pushing the latest releases in only three games, if your remit is to do that, there not much room for creativity.

Back in like 2009-2010 I was at BrookHurst Hobbies in Garden Grove CA. Besides it being a very pimp hobby store with quite a few gaming lines (that we often talk about here on Dakka) it had a really great magazine section. One the modeling mags I flipped through had a scratchmade Farseer bust that was truly breathtaking. There was a step by step on how the creator started with green, added to it, painted it up, his inspirations, etc all and all it was like a 6-7 page full spread in a modelling magazine.

I have never seen that bust or its like in a WD and I really wish I would. WD is just a bloated catalog. There is plenty of fan inspired, non catalog, GW material to cover. And you're probably not going to have to look too hard to find it. Plenty of non GW minature sites post 40K and Warhammer Fantasy stuff that really eclipses "Eavy Metal talent. Why not look up those places and cover them, since they are painting up GW stuff. Sure it may cost a little more to take a trip to interview someone who's not on the corporate payroll, but in my opinion it'd be worth it.

The last WD I bought was WD311 (Gimaldus on cover) $6 US.

I'm not even sure which issue is out now.

Now, as a 40k player, I have no interest in Fantasy articles and I hate LotR (the game and last 2 movies, books are awesome).

So I'm gonna break down this issue and well place it's value (to me) by putting a "+" next to entries I found enjoyable/useful and a "-" next to entries I found to be wasting my time/money.

First off the magazine came wrapped in plastic so I wouldn't have been able to see its contents before purchase (unless someone else there bought it).

First page is "TURN 1" (saying that it is a "News & New Releases from the GW worldof hobby games). Complete BS. Its a page talking about Freud and Psycology. WTF? -

A word in your ear. Use to enjoy reading this. +

New models for the month: Plastic scouts, Sword Brethren, Termie Chaplain, Grimaldus + crew, Templar vehicle upgrade, Dwarf army box, Balrog, Isengard stuff, Rohirrim stuff. -

6 pages of dwarf stuff. -

6 pages on converting your own pikemen. -

10 pages of a cool Kislev army. +

18 page battle report between HE and DE. -

2 page article on creating models based on BL novels. +

6 pages on "Getting ready for Adepticon 2006". -

2 page suggested senario for WHFB (one page is just a picture of Skaven). -

2 page suggested senario for WH40k. -

A few adds and some fan-mail. -

15 pages of Black Templars (Basically the same models over and over again painted by different studio people and all in the same color sceme). -

4 pages of Armageddon History (more BT stuff). -

4 pages of Index Astartes Scouts. +

4 pages of Scout tactics. -

4 pages of... I guess it's supposed to be marine tactics? -

6 pages of Painting a Land Raider Crusader. -

12 page Deathwing showcase. +++

6 pages of FW models. -

22 pages of LotRs junk. - - -

4 pages of "Bitz and Pieces". +

In total 6 articles within the issue had anything of interest (to me (33 pages out of 144). So I roughly paid a dollar per article. This particular issue was basically a waste and spent way too many pages on

Black Templars, Elves and those FETHING LotRs articles!!! In truth the LotRs eatting up half the issues was the #1 reason I stopped buying WD in the first place.

Call me a cynic when it comed to GW but I'll take this rumor with a whole block of salt, not just a grain.

I think the only additional "content" that we'll see will be in the form of them pimping Lord of the Rings / Hobbit stuff.

It'll be their new baby that they devote endless attention to, hoping for a repeat of that sales "bubble" that they hung on to so deperately well past it's time 10 years ago when the LOTR Trilogy was out.

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if New Line STRONGLY dictated that they get "appropriate" advertising as a term of their licensing agreement. And GW, in their delusional minds, sees White Dwarf as "appropriate" (with some tweaking).

I don't, for one second, believe that they would actually spend the money to set up a new, remote magazine HQ office when they couldn't even ensure QC of their "revolutionary model material" when they launched Failcast.

BAH ... Grumpy ... sorry for the GW rant. It's so easy ....

 Flashman wrote:
I'm also fairly sceptical of this...

GW's current philosophy seems to be "nothing for free". There was a total absence of stage by stage painting guides for Daemon's last month BUT they did release a digital download daemon painting guide that you had to pay for.

How can you make a hobby magazine good when management decree that even the very basic hobbying skills have to be siphoned off and sold seperately?

This, this, a thousand times this. We're talking about a company that expects you to go out and spend £3-400 on an iPad just so you can have the privilege of paying them £2-5 for the puff-piece articles they used to have on their website for free. I'd love to see a return to the old format of rules, fluff, and hobby articles taking up 80% of the space, and the explicit advertising limited to a few pages right at the front, but I don't see that happening unless the entire current management team have a collective aneurism, drop dead, and get replaced with Santa.

Ye this is good news and not too late, I hope. A good reason to buy it, passed the occasional new rules release, would be very welcome.

On a side note Nintendo Power magazine went the same way as WD but for Nintendo. That has it's last issue this weekend people didn't buy it any longer it was just too pro-Nintendo.

If they are serious about saving it then this can only be a good move, I think.

Palindrome wrote:
Took them long enough. WD has been a mere shadow of its former self for years and an attempt to make it worth buying would be welcome.

I agree. I remember the days (when Necromunda was still in print) when it had great articles. Some of my favorite were the ones on how to scratch build terrain. I doubt we will ever see things like that again. They may improve content a bit, but we all know its still going to be neck deep in "buy our stuff".


IMO the biggest thing to get over is the price, they are going to have to stuff it really full of very good stuff to justify anything in the current price range. Even though I dont play any GW games, I do like the fluff (both 40k and WHFB) and love their minis, so if they can pull the content very close to what it used to be...I might start buying it again. It would also be nice to see a yearly rate that was a healthy discount over the monthly mag cost.

We hear this rumour every year, along with the one about speeding up Codex releases. Never happens.

The only White Dwarf I've bought in ten years is a recent on explaining a certain paint scheme I wanted to reproduce. It was a useful guide, and if they had that kind of thing regularly, and with greater diversity, it *might* justify buying it more than once a decade. But I doubt much will change.

Now maybe if White Dwarf introduced a Hobby Section, perhaps some monthly, or bi-monthly model contest, and went down in price by two dollars then I'd consider it. But I mean, if Nintendo Power stopped publication, what chance does White Dwarf have?

Not much ShatteredBlade.

I think, really, the only reason it is still around is that GW don't like to give away rules updates for new units through the website. While people are still willing to pay for those new rules the mag will continue.

But that can't possibly sustain it, IMO it will die. Unless this is put in place.

Though who will really care by then?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Look... since I started posting here oh so many moons ago I've seen a dozen such 'announcements' that, WD is 'changing' and will be 'better'.

How many times can a small man with a white beard cry 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I stopped beleiving way in the past.

White Dwarf was an excellent gaming mag back in the 80's, it was ok in the early 90's. It's been utter crap ever since.

When it does have articles beyond adverts for the latest release they are written by self congratulatory morons with delusions of adequacy, like Jervis Johnson. They include tactcas that a twelve year old can refute as bollocks designed to buff expectations of the unit tor army concerned and are chock a block with poorly written concept plagiarism that GW likes to pretend is their own intellectual property.

If it was handed out for free I wouldn't bother going to the store to get it, unless I happened to be in the area was bored and curious as to how bad it currently is.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
We hear this rumour every year, along with the one about speeding up Codex releases. Never happens.

Actually there WAS a small change since July last year. Not saying that splash release rules for non-limited models is a great idea, but certainly a change from posting no rules at all before.

 Compel wrote:
I think I overheard at some point it's supposed to look like the Edge magazine?

That would be quite the trick, considering that White Dwarf only features Game's Workshop products, and is owned by games workshop.

"Here! let us review these models that games workshop just released and only give them praise!"

Then agien.. not that different then how video game companies buy off reviewers so their triple A titles get good reviews.... Now that I think about it, I bassicly don't buy video game magazines anymore for the same reason I don't buy White Dwarf.... I get better reviews and insites on a product from independent online reviewers for free....

=/

I guess I'm jaded to most magazines now adays, due to being able to find better content on the internet for free. This over haul better be impressive if it's going to impress me. If it was a larger book that comes out quarterly, full of Gaming, Conversion, painting, Terrain building, ect articles I would probably buy it.

Like guides on how to modle Eldar Webway gates, Chaos Shrines, ect. Ideas for interesting ways to put together thows Cities of death buildings that incorporate the newer Terrian Kits, ect. I would LOVE a guide for converting power axes for my Traitor IG and CSM, or ideas about how to convert a Dark Eldar Power Axe.

But as is even with vague promises of "It's going to be better" I'm not holding my breath. The internet gives me so many resources, it's unlikely that it will becomes relevant to me agien. I only buy WD's now for new unit rules when they come out. (Since Games Workshop seems to have decided to start making you pay for thows rules off their site now, not to mention you need to own a Ipad to even be able to download them...)

Hope they can pull it off.


I doubt they will do it, but here is to the effort.


At this point, talk has already been on the table, and they owe the fan base the actions to back it up.

I don't really see anything they could do about white dwarf, besides can it entirely. I don't know about most GW customers, but I really don't care for 90% of the magazine, what with not playing fantasy or LotR.

Although maybe I'll quit with the pessimism. Good on them. It's been struggling.

The only thing WD has that I want are the rules updates for new models and tweaks to codices. But those articles should be available online anyways since anyone who places that army will need them.

And I don't understand why they made Space Hulk a limited release. The game is good enough to sell for a looooong time.

WD really did die when Paul Sawyer left back at 300. I really enjoyed the magazine back in those days, still read a few of the older ones just to see the absolutely random yet incredibly interesting articles.

Some guys playing in their basement with chippy take-aways, vehicle and monster design rules. Stories, in-magazine campaigns and modelling/army building articles. Late 90's and early naughties really were a golden era for white dwarf. It really did focus on the community 'what YOU can do' side of things.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
The other thing is that people want more 'hobby content'. But this is often at odds with the direction GW has taken in recent years which is why I'm sceptical about magazine overhauls. They want you to buy their RoB table and all their plastic scenery kits. Any terrain article will simply be about making one of those kits, or kitbashing several of those kits together.

Terrain making used to be frequently encouraged by describing it as being a cheap and fun side of the hobby. Well they're hardly going to tell you that now and make a point of showing you each month how to make scenery on the cheap when they're specifically trying to sell you kits for the table.

This. I've got on my shelf, along with old Army Books from the 90s (Dwarfs ftw!), a book called "How To Make Wargames Terrain" produced by Games Workshop.


Inside is a load of guides on how to make terrain for 40K and Fantasy including hills, woods, hedges, jungles, craters, rivers, marshes, houses, ruins and pretty much everything else you need out of cardboard, foam and bits and pieces from around the house.

Do a quick search on GWs site and whaddaya know? It doesn't exist there any more.

Semper wrote:
WD really did die when Paul Sawyer left back at 300. I really enjoyed the magazine back in those days, still read a few of the older ones just to see the absolutely random yet incredibly interesting articles.

Some guys playing in their basement with chippy take-aways, vehicle and monster design rules. Stories, in-magazine campaigns and modelling/army building articles. Late 90's and early naughties really were a golden era for white dwarf. It really did focus on the community 'what YOU can do' side of things.

Perspective is an amazing thing. I thought WD was dodgy at 160, meh at 200 and kindling by 275.

Have always brought it, just generally hated it lol. Be honest for me when GW stopped supporting RPGs's.

We remember fat bloke, but does anyone remember when they sacked the London team and moved it to Nottingham.

What about Red Giant magazine ?

@ A Town Called Malus

It is that book and a few others (railroad and military) that I help promote people to create their own terrain. Excellent Book to have.

As far as WD is concerned. I doubt anything special is going to happen. They are just too damned cheap to put time and effort on PR.

IF they did not put any effort in presenting themselves as "The Biggest Miniature Game Company in the world!" at Gen Con, why do you think there will be effort in putting money on their own ad rag??? Because they are freaking cheap in all ways possible.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2012/08/gencon-appreciating-scale.html#more

Scroll down to see the Awesomeness of Games Workshop compared to Privateer Press. Worship oh thee white knights on their supreme presence upon the masses at one of the major Game/Trade shows in the US. Pathetic. Sarcasm is of course included in these sentences.

Good article bty since it went over what was going on at the Convention than a complete rant on the corporation.

I applaud this if true... however... unless they solve their subscription issue (magazine arriving for subscribers like 3 weeks after hitting store shelves), I am not, and never will be interested in getting a subscription again.

They get it to me at or around general release, I would take a subscription again in a heartbeat, even as it is now.

Magnamaniac wrote:

Semper wrote:
WD really did die when Paul Sawyer left back at 300. I really enjoyed the magazine back in those days, still read a few of the older ones just to see the absolutely random yet incredibly interesting articles.

Some guys playing in their basement with chippy take-aways, vehicle and monster design rules. Stories, in-magazine campaigns and modelling/army building articles. Late 90's and early naughties really were a golden era for white dwarf. It really did focus on the community 'what YOU can do' side of things.

Perspective is an amazing thing. I thought WD was dodgy at 160, meh at 200 and kindling by 275.

Have always brought it, just generally hated it lol. Be honest for me when GW stopped supporting RPGs's.

Well I started reading it under the 'reign' of Fat Bloke, in about 99.. so most of my highest years of activity playing were during the major years of Sawyer, Chambers and beyond and I was fairly young.. so I grew up a little with their words.. so yeah. Pleasant memories. Can't say pre-fat bloke, only post but I don't often hear of anything pre ergo my assumption that particular editor hald sway over the golden era. I do agree it DID degrade over the years though but I always felt that was less Paul and his contributors and more the GW company.

 DeffDred wrote:

In truth the LotRs eatting up half the issues was the #1 reason I stopped buying WD in the first place.

Its a different game system, it isn't even featured all that much. In its hayday WD used to have regular articles for a half dozen systems, other wargaming magazines cover a huge array of games and even print articles which can be altered to suit most rulesets.

WD hasn't be worth reading since well before the LotR film went into production. I can't even remember the last one I bought but it was in the late 90's/early 00's.

"Moving out of the design studios"? I don't see how this is supposed to be good.

How hard can it be to simply go back to the old days where stuff like useful guides, interesting previews and fluff articles (Index Astartes, Index Malleus, Liber Sororitas, ...) all written by actual GW people and the occasional guest writer outweighed the adverts?

Okay, maybe there will be more content in this revamp, but it's apparently going to be written by different people with less regular contact to those who actually make the game. Red tape as it exists in any organisation with different departments will mean less current information, and any fluff written by outsiders might not line up with the studio vision, rendering it as susceptible to deviant interpretations as your average Black Library novel.

Eh, I guess I'll give it a try and see how it goes. If this rumour is actually true. Not holding my breath.

If they brought back Paul "Fat Bloke" Sawyer as editor and lowered the price to below US$7.00 I would not only subscribe, but I would probably buy GW minis again.

Since this wont be happening, Good luck with the "famous magazine" editor.

I currently like how white dwarf is right now. I just wish it weren't $9 a pop.

 djphranq wrote:
I currently like how white dwarf is right now.

Which bits specifically?

I bought WD for ten years, then stopped about two years ago. They could get me to purchase it again quite easily. Give me new WD only canon, and new WD only Smith/Boyd/Dainton/Kopinski art every month. The golden age of WD for me was the Index Astartes years. I loved getting each issue, pouring over the Space Marine chapter in question.

For me, it was always the settings. The success of the Black Library should tell them that poeple love the setting, and want more of it. Just give it to us!

engine

 Pacific wrote:
Just like the rising of the sun, here comes Kaldor commenting in a WD thread about the printed medium

Well, I wouldn't want to disappoint!

Please, just go out and buy another of some of the well-written magazines out there. 'The Word' (music mag- not sure if you can buy in Aus?), Total Film, Empire, there is a long list of worthwhile reads. They feature articles written about interesting comment, and that have been written by people who have made a career out of writing well. That, I think more than anything else, is what is missing from current editions of WD. As way of comparison, go back to a WD pre-310 or so and see how much the magazine is missing these days.

Well, I don't make a career out of reading magazines, but the few I've had the misfortune of perusing in waiting rooms, or that my wife buys (especially the wedding magazines we bought leading up to our own wedding) were all total crap. Make-work articles, glossy adverts letters pages (who the hell writes in to a magazine any more?). I'm happy to wade through that crap when it's directly related to my hobby, and yes I'd love it if there were better articles in WD, but I don't even know what I'd want.

IMO, any attempt to increase the quality of the content of WD is going to be met with derision by the player base, especially the internet. No matter how hard they try, people will still rant and rave about how crap their articles are, and WD won't see an increase in sales that will justify the expense of the this 'overhaul'. And so they'll scrap it, and go back to how it is.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Just like the rising of the sun, here comes Kaldor commenting in a WD thread about the printed medium

Well, I wouldn't want to disappoint!

Please, just go out and buy another of some of the well-written magazines out there. 'The Word' (music mag- not sure if you can buy in Aus?), Total Film, Empire, there is a long list of worthwhile reads. They feature articles written about interesting comment, and that have been written by people who have made a career out of writing well. That, I think more than anything else, is what is missing from current editions of WD. As way of comparison, go back to a WD pre-310 or so and see how much the magazine is missing these days.

Well, I don't make a career out of reading magazines, but the few I've had the misfortune of perusing in waiting rooms, or that my wife buys (especially the wedding magazines we bought leading up to our own wedding) were all total crap. Make-work articles, glossy adverts letters pages (who the hell writes in to a magazine any more?). I'm happy to wade through that crap when it's directly related to my hobby, and yes I'd love it if there were better articles in WD, but I don't even know what I'd want.

IMO, any attempt to increase the quality of the content of WD is going to be met with derision by the player base, especially the internet. No matter how hard they try, people will still rant and rave about how crap their articles are, and WD won't see an increase in sales that will justify the expense of the this 'overhaul'. And so they'll scrap it, and go back to how it is.

I disagree. There are multiple things that GW can do, as the sole producer of their products that noone else can do. Especially, interviews with the sculptors / games developers / Blanche. Eavy-Metal master classes are better than any painting guide I've seen on the internet, and the (old) battle reports that featured turn-by-turn maps were better than anything I've seen from online. Having paid, professional writers and photographers with the right directives will produce higher quality than people on the internet will .

Maybe the point of moving them to a different location is so that the upper management can't find them? And stop them. All I can think about is that spiel John Connor gives in Terminator 4 to the resistance.

"If you can hear this, you are the fanbase."

As for the point about no matter what they do being met with derision, that is a fair point in that it will happen. However the cornerstone of Customer Service is not to generate toxic customers. GW has utterly failed on this aspect of CS, especially here in Australia, and they are reaping what they sowed. At this stage there is still going to be a significant amount of people who will actively try to deter others from getting into the hobby for many reasons. Justified or otherwise.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
I currently like how white dwarf is right now.

Which bits specifically?

Different things about it.

(using WD 391 as an example)

The 2 spread shots of the Daemon armies inside the front cover.
The New Releases section.
The Black Library 'ad' in the following pages.
The Chaos Daemons articles with the paint color suggestions and the pictures.
The Chaos Daemons 'ad' showing what is available.
The Modeling Workshop section with its examples and pictures.
The 40k Eye of the Warp Storm Battle Report with its lists, play by play, and pictures.
The 'Apparatus of War' 'ad'.
The Battle Brothers piece showcasing different lists with allies and pictures.
The Librarians of Tzeentch piece that had the rules/stats for the Blue Scribes.
The WHFB The Siege of Saphery Battlereport with its lists, play by play, and pictures.
The Warhammer 'ad' that followed it showing some of the accessories available.
The Warhammer Arena of Death piece with the different pairings and pictures.
The Blanchitsu section showcasing the different Nurgle Chaos Lords.
The Warhammer 'ad' showing some of the single model model plastic blisters.
The 2 page spread featuring some Forge World pieces.
The Working with Citadel Finecast section with examples and product suggestions.
The Tools of the Trade 'ad'.
The Armies on Parade piece with pictures of Matt Spencer's Ork Army.
The bit of 'news' about the Rogue Trader and Deathwatch supplements.
The Throne of Skulls piece that showcased some of the armies.
The Store Finder section.
The 'Next Month' inside cover picture.
The picture on the back cover.
The Daemons of Chaos Supplement that came with the issue.
Pretty much everything.

Really I just like it because its kind of like window shopping with some extra info without having to be at a store.

Sure I can get stuff like this online for free... arguably better stuff... but I like having a physical magazine (catalog) to flip through... plus there isn't something to click on to add items to a cart like I'll be prone to do when online in general.

TL;DR

I'm a GW fanboy

 djphranq wrote:
I'm a GW fanboy

Of course you are. You like the ads.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
I'm a GW fanboy

Of course you are. You like the SEXYads.

Fixed that for you.

 djphranq wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
I'm a GW fanboy

Of course you are. You like the SEXYads.

Fixed that for you.

I have to agree to an extent. Their ads compared to what they were back in the day are sexier. So if ads for miniatures are ones thing, then WD is da bomb.

For those of us that liked the Hobby Supplement side of things from the older WD though, we find it difficult to masturbate to.

You know what it could use? Centerfolds...

...like a fold out picture of a Baneblade... mmmm naked Baneblade...

 djphranq wrote:
You know what it could use? Centerfolds...

...like a fold out picture of a Baneblade... mmmm naked Baneblade...

And now I can't stop giggling at the thought of a Tech-Priest, upon another Tech-Priest finding his secret stash of WD, stammering out;

"I-I-I only read it for the articles! I swear!"

And then it ends in a circuit jerk.

Servitor on servitor action.... awwwww yyyyeeeeaahhhh.

So for all these reasons and more, we clearly need a Black Label White Dwarf.

And its article on A safe guide to Power Fisting.

Ok. I'm going to stop now. I know just how far this will go.

(And sadly the one time I would finally have use of the picture of two servo-skulls humping and I can't find it >.<

Trasvi wrote:

I disagree. There are multiple things that GW can do, as the sole producer of their products that noone else can do. Especially, interviews with the sculptors / games developers / Blanche. Eavy-Metal master classes are better than any painting guide I've seen on the internet, and the (old) battle reports that featured turn-by-turn maps were better than anything I've seen from online. Having paid, professional writers and photographers with the right directives will produce higher quality than people on the internet will .

Yup. A professionally made battle report is a beautiful thing to behold.

I used to really enjoy them until I realised that the new army *always* won. And now I'm a bit older I'd be annoyed at the rubbish lists too, I guess.

I have thought about cancelling my subscription pretty much every month for the last year. However, my 3-year old son likes to look at the pictures and photos, asking endless questions about everything. Even with the dearth of real content for me, WD has been a tool for training the next generation of gamers, at least in my home. Hopefully this new rumor is true and they'll start printing something besides pretty pictures.

I think the last WD I bought was the one that went along with the Ork Stompa release, with the pull-out poster. And even then I was only buying every other month or so. The end of religiously buying WD every month was around 300-310.

JoshInJapan wrote:
I have thought about cancelling my subscription pretty much every month for the last year. However, my 3-year old son likes to look at the pictures and photos, asking endless questions about everything. Even with the dearth of real content for me, WD has been a tool for training the next generation of gamers, at least in my home. Hopefully this new rumor is true and they'll start printing something besides pretty pictures.

Dang it. I have a literal pile of WDs that I am going to be throwing away because no one wants them. I wish I could send them to you for your son. :(

If any Dakkaites find themselves near Parramatta NSW Australia and want them let me know. You will be doing me a favor.

 Atma01 wrote:
I have to agree to an extent. Their ads compared to what they were back in the day are sexier. So if ads for miniatures are ones thing, then WD is da bomb.

I beg to differ. Just look at this:



Look at it!!!

They even highlight the fact that it comes with transfers. My God man: Transfers!



TRANSFERS!!!

*faints*

Hey, at least back then they all came with sticky-back flags to put on models. That's one thing I genuinely miss, especially the backpack flags for Marines and pennants for bikes and Jetbikes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I beg to differ. Just look at this:

Look at it!!!

They even highlight the fact that it comes with transfers. My God man: Transfers!

TRANSFERS!!!

*faints*

Oh yeah. You are a sexy jeep. Such a dirty physics engine.

Both hands on the table buddy!

I do hope this is true, I remember a few months back there was a job posting for a digital production role that specifically said it was to make a digital version of WD... I assume this could come along with the revamp.

 Kaldor wrote:
IMO, any attempt to increase the quality of the content of WD is going to be met with derision by the player base, especially the internet. No matter how hard they try, people will still rant and rave about how crap their articles are, and WD won't see an increase in sales that will justify the expense of the this 'overhaul'. And so they'll scrap it, and go back to how it is.

You're right and wrong here, in my humble opinion.

You're right that no matter what GW tries to do to fix WD, people will find fault and begin ranting and raving about it. It is human nature to dislike change. The overall opinion of 6th edition seems to have smoothed out relatively quickly. Upon release, you'd have thought the sky was falling. Now that people have had a few games and made some adjustments, many people don't think it is as bad as they initially thought.

I think you're wrong to assume that if GW does something right with WD, that sales will not increase. After the initial outcry, if WD is putting out more/better content, why wouldn't people begin buying it again? It might take a month or two, but if WD gets a nice overhaul I'm sure a lot of people will be buying it again.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. - Inquisitorial mantra

Change is inevitable, all you can do is ensure it happens in your favor. - Axiom of Tzeentch

No we don't do discounts, not even for you. - Kirby's preamble to investors

*sigh* I'm starting to get really fed up with this. It would be nice to see WD improve, but how many times are we going to here this? I'd really like to believe it, I really would, but it seems that the only way to raise WD from the dead would be to hire a Necromancer as editor.

If, and I mean IF this is true, then it's going to have to be really good to get me to buy it again, and it would have to be fething phenomenal before I thought about taking a subscription.

Two things I'd wonder about though, would any 'improvement' come with a nice price rise to pay for it, and would the improvement be geared towards GW's target audience, thus isolating vets even more?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
The other thing is that people want more 'hobby content'. But this is often at odds with the direction GW has taken in recent years which is why I'm sceptical about magazine overhauls. They want you to buy their RoB table and all their plastic scenery kits. Any terrain article will simply be about making one of those kits, or kitbashing several of those kits together.

Terrain making used to be frequently encouraged by describing it as being a cheap and fun side of the hobby. Well they're hardly going to tell you that now and make a point of showing you each month how to make scenery on the cheap when they're specifically trying to sell you kits for the table.

That's actually a huge and excellent point. One of the old, old White Dwarfs had instructions on how to make yourself a papercraft Baneblade. I've still got that issue, somewhere, packed away. The Predator, Vindicator, Spartan were all "make it yourself" cheap-n-cheerful conversions from your 3-in-a-box original Rhinos.

I loved the papercraft Baneblade. Made a couple out of plasticard.

I had (or should have but can't find at the moment) one that had schematics for building a Gobsmasha. Never built one, but it looked sweet as.

Hopefully it is just buried further in my closet, or absorbed somewhere into HBMC's collection at his place. It would have been a pity to lose that one.

The guys at White Dwarf should go ahead and read a bunch of issues of PP's No Quarter, for a magazine that's half the cost, half the size, and twice the quality of current WD.

The size and the price are fine, they just need to sort out the content.

Like it's been said before, it's not going to happen as long as they insist on everything coming from inside the studio, which basically equates to ads and army reports that are based on selling the newest army, where that new army trounces one of the older ones.

The content I enjoyed was the stuff that made me feel like the people at GW were gamers, not sales executives. Take for instance, the Tale of 4 Gamers. With each issue we saw the guy's armies grow, win and lose. The best part was that they also were talking about realistic armies, too, which weren't just the latest new release.

Or how about the Warhammer Siege battle reports that they had for a few issues in a row, where the first 2/3 of the article was how each castle got built- sometimes not even using Fortress parts at all- to fit their armies aesthetic?

It used to be a magazine "by gamers, for gamers". Now it a "by sales executives, as a case study on what the consumer should buy next". they barely even talk about older GW product, jut the new stuff.

If tale of 4 gamers came back right now as a 40K version, I swear that it would be Grey Knights/Blood Angels/Chaos/Dark Angels. Or maybe one guy would play Necrons.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
The other thing is that people want more 'hobby content'. But this is often at odds with the direction GW has taken in recent years which is why I'm sceptical about magazine overhauls. They want you to buy their RoB table and all their plastic scenery kits. Any terrain article will simply be about making one of those kits, or kitbashing several of those kits together.

Terrain making used to be frequently encouraged by describing it as being a cheap and fun side of the hobby. Well they're hardly going to tell you that now and make a point of showing you each month how to make scenery on the cheap when they're specifically trying to sell you kits for the table.

This. I've got on my shelf, along with old Army Books from the 90s (Dwarfs ftw!), a book called "How To Make Wargames Terrain" produced by Games Workshop.

Spoiler:

Inside is a load of guides on how to make terrain for 40K and Fantasy including hills, woods, hedges, jungles, craters, rivers, marshes, houses, ruins and pretty much everything else you need out of cardboard, foam and bits and pieces from around the house.

Do a quick search on GWs site and whaddaya know? It doesn't exist there any more.

How To Make Wargames Terrain is a fun book. I still have it. I also remember at a UK Games Day jokingly accusing the terrain maker of sacrilege for cutting up a Star Wars Rebel Transport to make the crashed cargo ship on the cover.

I made one of the Gobsmashas - it used a Smarties tube as a cannon - that was BIG!

I would just like to see some consistency. If you are not interested in the flavor of the day then the book is completely worthless. If you are interested in said flavor then it is a really expensive catalog. I would say 2 issues a year have had something actually useful to me.

 kronk wrote:

Not having a discount for subscribers (like every other magazine, including Playboy) is just plain silly.

12 White Dwarf at retail $108, $9 per issue
White Dwarf Subscription through GW $75, $6.25 per issue
White Dwarf Subscription through MiniaturesMarket $50, $4.16 per issue

It's not as big as a discount as Playboy, but Playboy practically gives the magazine away at cost because they generate their real revenue through advertisements, and the more subscribers they have they more they can charge for advertisements. White Dwarf does not generate it's income from ad revenue.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
The other thing is that people want more 'hobby content'. But this is often at odds with the direction GW has taken in recent years which is why I'm sceptical about magazine overhauls. They want you to buy their RoB table and all their plastic scenery kits. Any terrain article will simply be about making one of those kits, or kitbashing several of those kits together.

Terrain making used to be frequently encouraged by describing it as being a cheap and fun side of the hobby. Well they're hardly going to tell you that now and make a point of showing you each month how to make scenery on the cheap when they're specifically trying to sell you kits for the table.

This. I've got on my shelf, along with old Army Books from the 90s (Dwarfs ftw!), a book called "How To Make Wargames Terrain" produced by Games Workshop.

Spoiler:

Inside is a load of guides on how to make terrain for 40K and Fantasy including hills, woods, hedges, jungles, craters, rivers, marshes, houses, ruins and pretty much everything else you need out of cardboard, foam and bits and pieces from around the house.

Do a quick search on GWs site and whaddaya know? It doesn't exist there any more.

That book is exactly what Im talking about...I remember when WD had articles similar to, probably even some of the same as the ones in that book.

 Lynata wrote:
"Moving out of the design studios"? I don't see how this is supposed to be good.

How hard can it be to simply go back to the old days where stuff like useful guides, interesting previews and fluff articles (Index Astartes, Index Malleus, Liber Sororitas, ...) all written by actual GW people and the occasional guest writer outweighed the adverts?

Okay, maybe there will be more content in this revamp, but it's apparently going to be written by different people with less regular contact to those who actually make the game. Red tape as it exists in any organisation with different departments will mean less current information, and any fluff written by outsiders might not line up with the studio vision, rendering it as susceptible to deviant interpretations as your average Black Library novel.

Generating enough good content on a regular basis isn't easy. Ever notice how many company newsletters, etc. start out monthly, then become quarterly, then kinda fade into the warp? WD is a very similar case just because the folks in the studio already have full-time jobs. The more you can use other, dedicated contributors, the better the content should be just because you'll have staff focused on generating content as their number one job.

WD can be as good as its budget and corporate oversight dictate. You can't do a magazine right on the cheap...it's just not a high-margin kind of industry. And if GW wants the content to be interesting, their suits can't breathe down the staffs' necks too much. WD needs to sell minis, but there are ways to do that without being blatent and crude about it. Note that suits tend to prefer blatent and crude.

Shifting the topic a bit, I've been wondering for months now if the white covers were part of a revamp or purely a design choice. In one of my past lives at a big magazine, our research showed that our light covers did better on the newsstand than our dark covers. Comparing the two magazines is an apples-to-oranges thing, but I thought about that research when I first realized that white covers were the new standard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:

 kronk wrote:

Not having a discount for subscribers (like every other magazine, including Playboy) is just plain silly.

12 White Dwarf at retail $108, $9 per issue
White Dwarf Subscription through GW $75, $6.25 per issue
White Dwarf Subscription through MiniaturesMarket $50, $4.16 per issue

It's not as big as a discount as Playboy, but Playboy practically gives the magazine away at cost because they generate their real revenue through advertisements, and the more subscribers they have they more they can charge for advertisements. White Dwarf does not generate it's income from ad revenue.

Correct. Magazine publishers would prefer to charge a high cover price if they could. But magazines that sell ads are mostly focused on their rate bases. So they'll give the thing away so long it slows or stops the bleeding in their readership and keeps their rate base afloat.

I agree that the cover price seems excessive at first glance. But I also tend to think it's probably a realistic price for a glossy magazine with no outside advertising and a low number of readers.

I find google to be a great giver of perspective:

From 1994:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.games.frp.dnd/G-gow54Zk_g

I mean look at it, its full of *STUFF*, all ads for their badly sculpted minatures (Mithril make the best
figures I think I have ever seen), or some battle played out by guys who
have absolutely no-idea about tactics (they just no how to use fudged
minatures and fire power)

Oh come on. Sure White Dwarf has become a trade magazine for GW, but
if you like GW's games it isn't that bad. I have a bunch of those
old White Dwarves everybody praises, and most of the material
just isn't that good. If you don't like GW games, don't buy it. At
least you know what you are getting unlike some gaming magazines.

As far as miniatures, well Citadel is way to expensive, but most of
there stuff isn't bad.

GW games often boil down to dice rolling, and the luck factor is just too
great. I mean, you roll for random reinforcements, random map placements,
even random setups! GW games are just that; games. But don't try to pass it
off as a tactical challenge because it isn't.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.games.frp.advocacy/xqhx4FAUFD4
1992, this one is priceless:

BTW, I wonder what is going to happen to GW during the coming years. I know
a LOT of people who were once Warhammer-addicts (including myself), but are
turning away from GW en masse because they don't longer like the "improved"
games such as WH40K, WFB or Space Marine. It seems GW is producing more
and more stuff that should attract younger players (e.g. steam tanks, noise
marines, childish magic etc...). And if so, where are all those younger
players going to get the money to buy a lot of expensive miniatures?

It is like every argument we have has been had before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Noise marines to attract little Johnny? Too good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooh, from 1999:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/dejanews.comm.wayofthewolf/4vdy0Ju6W4I

I had a friend that worked at GW U.S. Retail Sales, and he called me one day.
They had gotten a letter from a disgruntled customer that the magazine
sucked, and he felt he was being ripped off. They wanted my opinion, and at
the time I felt it was worth the money. THEN they went to Fat Dwarf, and I
felt better.

But they told this fellow, and their OFFICIAL line is, that the magazine is a
Monthly Catalog of their Miniatures (read the top of the magazine!). WHAT
THE HELL IS THAT?

gorgon wrote:


I agree that the cover price seems excessive at first glance. But I also tend to think it's probably a realistic price for a glossy magazine with no outside advertising and a low number of readers.

I forgot to mention that shipping costs should be considered as well.

 pretre wrote:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.games.frp.advocacy/xqhx4FAUFD4
1992, this one is priceless:

BTW, I wonder what is going to happen to GW during the coming years. I know
a LOT of people who were once Warhammer-addicts (including myself), but are
turning away from GW en masse because they don't longer like the "improved"
games such as WH40K, WFB or Space Marine.

To be fair, those people were right, to an extent. Almost everyone who played GW games 20 years ago has gone away from the hobby. Most people who played the games 15 or 10 years ago have, too. The game endures, but the community, not so much. The demographics have also undoubtedly changed, as have people's mindsets.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
To be fair, those people were right, to an extent. Almost everyone who played GW games 20 years ago has gone away from the hobby. Most people who played the games 15 or 10 years ago have, too. The game endures, but the community, not so much. The demographics have also undoubtedly changed, as have people's mindsets.

I don't know about that as a fault of GW. One could say that almost everyone who played anything 20 years ago is probably not still in that hobby.

Also, to say that the community is not enduring is a little strange, considering we're on a site that's been around for what, 15 years?

 pretre wrote:

I don't know about that as a fault of GW. One could say that almost everyone who played anything 20 years ago is probably not still in that hobby.

Also, to say that the community is not enduring is a little strange, considering we're on a site that's been around for what, 15 years?

Quite a few of them are still wargamers though and as such are still in the hobby. Your second point misses that the demographics have changed, how many Dakka forumites were from at the begining?

Palindrome wrote:

 pretre wrote:

I don't know about that as a fault of GW. One could say that almost everyone who played anything 20 years ago is probably not still in that hobby.

Also, to say that the community is not enduring is a little strange, considering we're on a site that's been around for what, 15 years?

Quite a few of them are still wargamers though and as such are still in the hobby. Your second point misses that the demographics have changed, how many Dakka forumites were from at the begining?

I would argue that many of the people from 20 years ago probably have an equal percentage chance of being GW gamers, other gamers or not gamers at all. No way to know though without finding a list of GW gamers from 20 years ago.

That's a great question. Most of the ones that I tend to listen to have been around for 10-15 years. Sounds like a good poll question though.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Almost everyone who played GW games 20 years ago has gone away from the hobby.

Hey! I'm still here

Yeah, someone get Lego to throw up a poll:

How many years have you played GW games
0-1
1-3
3-5
5-10
10-15
15-20
20+

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The guys at White Dwarf should go ahead and read a bunch of issues of PP's No Quarter, for a magazine that's half the cost, half the size, and twice the quality of current WD.

I'd like to know who taught you math. They deserve a beating if they made you think $7.50 is half of $9.

Isn't NQ also about 100 pages?

 pretre wrote:
I find google to be a great giver of perspective:

From 1994:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.games.frp.dnd/G-gow54Zk_g

I mean look at it, its full of *STUFF*, all ads for their badly sculpted minatures (Mithril make the best
figures I think I have ever seen), or some battle played out by guys who
have absolutely no-idea about tactics (they just no how to use fudged
minatures and fire power)

Oh come on. Sure White Dwarf has become a trade magazine for GW, but
if you like GW's games it isn't that bad. I have a bunch of those
old White Dwarves everybody praises, and most of the material
just isn't that good. If you don't like GW games, don't buy it. At
least you know what you are getting unlike some gaming magazines.

As far as miniatures, well Citadel is way to expensive, but most of
there stuff isn't bad.

GW games often boil down to dice rolling, and the luck factor is just too
great. I mean, you roll for random reinforcements, random map placements,
even random setups! GW games are just that; games. But don't try to pass it
off as a tactical challenge because it isn't.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.games.frp.advocacy/xqhx4FAUFD4
1992, this one is priceless:

BTW, I wonder what is going to happen to GW during the coming years. I know
a LOT of people who were once Warhammer-addicts (including myself), but are
turning away from GW en masse because they don't longer like the "improved"
games such as WH40K, WFB or Space Marine. It seems GW is producing more
and more stuff that should attract younger players (e.g. steam tanks, noise
marines, childish magic etc...). And if so, where are all those younger
players going to get the money to buy a lot of expensive miniatures?

It is like every argument we have has been had before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Noise marines to attract little Johnny? Too good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooh, from 1999:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/dejanews.comm.wayofthewolf/4vdy0Ju6W4I

I had a friend that worked at GW U.S. Retail Sales, and he called me one day.
They had gotten a letter from a disgruntled customer that the magazine
sucked, and he felt he was being ripped off. They wanted my opinion, and at
the time I felt it was worth the money. THEN they went to Fat Dwarf, and I
felt better.

But they told this fellow, and their OFFICIAL line is, that the magazine is a
Monthly Catalog of their Miniatures (read the top of the magazine!). WHAT
THE HELL IS THAT?

This is an amazing post.

To be fair, those people were right, to an extent. Almost everyone who played GW games 20 years ago has gone away from the hobby. Most people who played the games 15 or 10 years ago have, too. The game endures, but the community, not so much. The demographics have also undoubtedly changed, as have people's mindsets.

I wouldn't say almost everyone, but yeah there is serious attrition for every game over 20 years. The local league I'm in has at least 6 members who've been playing since 2nd edition. The next store over has gamers going back to 3rd.

There were some pretty awesome games I played 20 years ago, but one does get bored and move on.

That being said, I don't expect them to cater to us lifers, but they shouldn't ignore us either.

 adamsouza wrote:

To be fair, those people were right, to an extent. Almost everyone who played GW games 20 years ago has gone away from the hobby. Most people who played the games 15 or 10 years ago have, too. The game endures, but the community, not so much. The demographics have also undoubtedly changed, as have people's mindsets.

I wouldn't say almost everyone, but yeah there is serious attrition for every game over 20 years. The local league I'm in has at least 6 members who've been playing since 2nd edition. The next store over has gamers going back to 3rd.

There were some pretty awesome games I played 20 years ago, but one does get bored and move on.

That being said, I don't expect them to cater to us lifers, but they shouldn't ignore us either.

Out of interest, what would you like to see being catered for as a "lifer"?

I'm in my mid 20s, been playing 40k for a few years, and played it as a kid as well (though I had no idea what I was doing). I'd like to see battle reports with semi-competative, or at least decent lists, decent fluff articles, artwork and house rules, even if they're a little crazy/unbalanced.

 Testify wrote:

This is an amazing post.

Which means nothing, you can 'prove' just about anything using only the internet. Perhaps you think that the current White Dwarf is as good as the early 90's issues and that the current issues aren't adverts with little actual content?

GW has serious issues and dismissing them out of hand is not very wise.

I didn't dismiss the issues out of hand. I just said that these same arguments have been coming up for 20 years. Nothing is new or different other than some of the actors.

Palindrome wrote:

Which means nothing, you can 'prove' just about anything using only the internet. Perhaps you think that the current White Dwarf is as good as the early 90's issues and that the current issues aren't adverts with little actual content?

GW has serious issues and dismissing them out of hand is not very wise.

Don't get me wrong I think White Dwarf is gakky too. But I have no idea if it was actually better when I was a child, or that's just nostalgia.

I remember when they published the short stories about the primarch, one in every issue for a few months. Man I really looked forward to them, especially since we'd been told nothing of the primarchs before.

I'd like to know who taught you math. They deserve a beating if they made you think $7.50 is half of $9.

Damn, why is everything on Dakkadakka lately someone making some sort of a snarky insult?


Sorry great know it all, I accidentally went with the price of 4.99 to 5.99 that I can get every copy for from my LGS. So sue me.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Damn, why is everything on Dakkadakka lately someone making some sort of a snarky insult?


Sorry great know it all, I accidentally went with the price of 4.99 to 5.99 that I can get every copy for from my LGS. So sue me.

I think you might be confusing Dakkadakka with the Internet at large since its inception. Common problem.

 Flashman wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Almost everyone who played GW games 20 years ago has gone away from the hobby.

Hey! I'm still here

Me too, Blinking cheeky little scamps!

Good modern history based post Pretre, while probably just a snippet of the general to and fro then it's amusing to see the moar things change the moar they stay the same. Exalted if only for the effort.

I would say just put it out it's misery, but if they pitch it as a "hobby magazine" (because they are the only wargaming people) Not even as far back as when they gave you the full army lists (anyone else remember buying genestealer cult, orks and eldar lists in white dwarf?) but even throughout 2nd ed they at least pretended to put in as much game related stuff as possible.

Then they added card insets, upped the price, 6 months later took them out and kept the price up and yeah... it gave up the ghost for me.

I will believe it when I see it.

 Testify wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

To be fair, those people were right, to an extent. Almost everyone who played GW games 20 years ago has gone away from the hobby. Most people who played the games 15 or 10 years ago have, too. The game endures, but the community, not so much. The demographics have also undoubtedly changed, as have people's mindsets.

I wouldn't say almost everyone, but yeah there is serious attrition for every game over 20 years. The local league I'm in has at least 6 members who've been playing since 2nd edition. The next store over has gamers going back to 3rd.

There were some pretty awesome games I played 20 years ago, but one does get bored and move on.

That being said, I don't expect them to cater to us lifers, but they shouldn't ignore us either.

Out of interest, what would you like to see being catered for as a "lifer"?

I'm in my mid 20s, been playing 40k for a few years, and played it as a kid as well (though I had no idea what I was doing). I'd like to see battle reports with semi-competative, or at least decent lists, decent fluff articles, artwork and house rules, even if they're a little crazy/unbalanced.

I want to read about what people who AREN'T GW employees are doing with GW stuff. I like seeing interviews with people who have interesting armies or an interesting take on the hobby. Y'know journalism. Going out into the community and finding those cool projects and giving them a platform for some recognition to inspire others as well as take some studio quality pics with good lighting etc.

I don't mind missing out on how-to articles because I can find those online and usually with videos so I want a magazine that explores the world outside GW studios but is still closely related to their games and products.

That said I used to buy the Citadel journal every time there was a new issue with far more excitement than any issue of WD because it gave me interesting new rules to play with like Adeptus Arbites armylists, Ogres in Warhammer Quest and entirely new teams for Blood Bowl.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The guys at White Dwarf should go ahead and read a bunch of issues of PP's No Quarter, for a magazine that's half the cost, half the size, and twice the quality of current WD.

I'd like to know who taught you math. They deserve a beating if they made you think $7.50 is half of $9.

One is monthly, the other every other month - the argument could easily be made that $7.50 is less than half of $18.

Rob451 wrote:

I want to read about what people who AREN'T GW employees are doing with GW stuff. I like seeing interviews with people who have interesting armies or an interesting take on the hobby. Y'know journalism. Going out into the community and finding those cool projects and giving them a platform for some recognition to inspire others as well as take some studio quality pics with good lighting etc.

I don't mind missing out on how-to articles because I can find those online and usually with videos so I want a magazine that explores the world outside GW studios but is still closely related to their games and products.

That said I used to buy the Citadel journal every time there was a new issue with far more excitement than any issue of WD because it gave me interesting new rules to play with like Adeptus Arbites armylists, Ogres in Warhammer Quest and entirely new teams for Blood Bowl.

Problem with that is you might have issues with long-term collectors saying things like "unit x is useless" or "this rule is rubbish". Journelism in a magazine can only be so independent.

Um...so you edit it?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The guys at White Dwarf should go ahead and read a bunch of issues of PP's No Quarter, for a magazine that's half the cost, half the size, and twice the quality of current WD.

I'd like to know who taught you math. They deserve a beating if they made you think $7.50 is half of $9.

One is monthly, the other every other month - the argument could easily be made that $7.50 is less than half of $18.

Ahh, but that cuts both ways. So based on the earlier statements and assumptions, and dividing it by the number of months, NQ is:

41% of the price
25% of the size
200% of the quality

So if we multiply that out, every two months you get a book that is 50% as good as WD for 41% of the price of WD.

This is why you shouldn't just spitball numbers.

What I would to see added to each issue ?

How to build or convert articles

New or experimental rules, especially army lists

Army building strategy articles like "how to cope with flyers" or "combating the FOTM" etc

interviews

 Kalamadea wrote:
We'll see. I haven't bought a white dwarf in years. New format is gonna have to blow me away to change that, and I can't be the only one.

+1

Just started reading this thread but a new format WD will have to be damn impressive for me drop my money on it. I will see if getting to the end of thread will change my mind

Whats sad is the community at large creates infinite amounts of free content that WD could simply take and sell. For monies.

I mean there are tons and tons of podcasts, hobby web sites, tactics discussions, tournament players/results all sitting there. There are so many people excited about the game, excited about playing, excited about the lore..

And thats what the magazine should be. It should showcase what the community is doing and make people EXCITED to play your game, and by default EXCITED to buy your plastic crap.

Coming here gives me great enthusiasm in my modeling. Listening to a tactics podcast makes me excited to try new strategies. A Home Depot ad does NOT get me excited to do home improvement.

Its so sad that they've missed that point. A catalogue, no matter how pretty the pictures, does not inspire people to play your game. And if they don't play... they don't buy. Your magazine, much less your product.

 pretre wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The guys at White Dwarf should go ahead and read a bunch of issues of PP's No Quarter, for a magazine that's half the cost, half the size, and twice the quality of current WD.

I'd like to know who taught you math. They deserve a beating if they made you think $7.50 is half of $9.

One is monthly, the other every other month - the argument could easily be made that $7.50 is less than half of $18.

Ahh, but that cuts both ways. So based on the earlier statements and assumptions, and dividing it by the number of months, NQ is:

41% of the price
25% of the size
200% of the quality

So if we multiply that out, every two months you get a book that is 50% as good as WD for 41% of the price of WD.

This is why you shouldn't just spitball numbers.

*shrug* I was just explaining the point about the half the cost.

It is possible the "half the size" point is already covered by the release schedule - can't check, as I haven't bought WD in a few years. Last NQ (#43) has 96pp - what were the page counts on the last 2 WDs?

Personally I think it's too late to save. I'm not a gamer and never have been, so they can put whatever rules they like into it and I won't care. When they did the original Robin Dews battle report, I didn't see the point and I've always found them tedious. The painting guides these days seem to be nothing more than a list of available paints. There's little point doing articles on conversions from individual components from different models which aren't sold individually, and although I'd be interested to see what non-employees do with their miniatures, the internet is vastly superior to whatever WD could hope to cover. Chris Peach's articles were quite interesting but I don't think I've seen any recently while flicking through it in a supermarket, shortly before putting the magazine back on the shelf. There is certainly more photography in it than 27 years ago but it's the same models ad nauseam. There was a certain perverse pleasure in cringing at the text describing the exceptionally crisp detail on the best miniatures they've ever made with a dynamic pose which alludes to the mighty ability of their staff writers to churn out absolute bilge (but you may need to burnish that exceptionally crisp detail with the Patented Citadel Emery Board - other emery boards are not available). Turn to page 79 to read about one employee inducting another employee's work to the Splendid Shrine of Citadel Fantabulousness. Or (if he still does it) read two pages of Jervis Johnson trying to say what a normal person could reasonably say in one short sentence. And it still wouldn't be worth saying. I shall always miss reading about where the latest store has opened in the depths of Outer Mongolia. There was a short period when they didn't even put prices next to the new models that were available (presumably they were top secret, which would make them all the more desirable). Buy Dreadfleet! Buy Dreadfleet! Limited availability! Buy it! Buy it now! Read all about it! Two months later you must still buy it! Last few available! Buy it now or miss out forever! What do you mean, you don't want to buy it? Look, we know you thought this issue would have something else than Dreadfleet in but actually all we really want is for you to buy Dreadfleet (granted, it did have a few other things in it, but not much). The late subscription was the last nail in the coffin for me. They can do an iWhite Dwarf if they want but I don't have an iPad to read it on and I won't be getting one to look at their iPictures if they expect me to pay iMoney for the privilege.

I've been thinging and I don't see their definition of "improved content" matching ours.

I'm assuming everyone has noticed how GW's position on converting models has fallen by the wayside in favor of only using kit options as well as the new paint-by-numbers painting guides. There hasn't been a DYI terrain article in a very long time. Dumbing everything down for the very young child is the way GW is toward so exactly what can they fill a magazine with other than advertisements?

 Breotan wrote:
I've been thinging and I don't see their definition of "improved content" matching ours.

I'm assuming everyone has noticed how GW's position on converting models has fallen by the wayside in favor of only using kit options as well as the new paint-by-numbers painting guides. There hasn't been a DYI terrain article in a very long time. Dumbing everything down for the very young child is the way GW is toward so exactly what can they fill a magazine with other than advertisements?

You can't blame children for not having DIY terrain articles.

Children love to make stuff, as macaroni pictures on fridge doors around the world will testify to. If they get to make something and then cover it in little plastic men shooting at each other then it's even better!

Fra Charmelandro wrote:
Or (if he still does it) read two pages of Jervis Johnson trying to say what a normal person could reasonably say in one short sentence. And it still wouldn't be worth saying.

Excoriating but true. (All of it, but that remark in particular.)

I started with GW back in the late Rogue Trader days. I got out about 4 years ago. I stopped buying WD long before that though. Like several people have stated, I liked the fluff articles WD used to have. Stuff like the incomplete primarch articles. That is actually my biggest complaint from those days...to many multi issue articles that never got completed. There were a lot of them. Seems like every time a new editor took over, all the old stuff got scrapped.

I agree 100% that WD has become a flavorless ad mag. The few articles that do make it are lackluster at best and only cover a couple of pages in between all the model ads.

If they really want something worth the US$9 price tag then articles need to have more substance and quantity. Advertise the new products. Not EVERY product in each magazine. Include community generated material. The studio battle reports are rather dry anymore. Have an Eavy Metal painting tutorial that actually shows most of the steps, not the 3 step PRIME, PAINT, MASTERPIECE! that we actually see currently.

Also, I loved when they still had bitz and the local area office put in employee conversions with the parts list and difficulty level, in its own little insert.

How about the little one off games that got included? The card terrain pieces, the special minis, etc. You guys who still get the mag, pay out the nose for less quality. I actually had a better magazine when I was paying half the price that you kids today suffer with.

I truly feel that this whole thread is a waste as GW is going to do whatever they want as usual. It is nice to vent though. For those of you who still purchase the mag, GW thanks you for your contribution to mediocrity and sub par materials.

Do I recall correctly that WD at some point stopped using outside content due to a change in law that prevented them from paying the contributors with product? Or am imagining things here?

I don't see how this can ever be a magazine that is cost effective for the consumer and the publisher. The backbone of printed subscription based literature is advertising. It has been for more than a century. With a complete lack of outside advertising GW cant do anything to offset publishing cost (hence no discount for subscribers). Magazines offer a discount for subscribers as it raises their guaranteed circulation and thus they can grab consistently higher rates for advertising space. This is just basic business. Unless GW decides to turn WD into a forum for wargaming as a whole, which I don't forsee them doing the idea of WD will be completely dead inside 5-7 years as the consistently rising costs of production combined with declining sales figures as prices rise will make it a money losing proposition.

imnottheonly wrote:
I don't see how this can ever be a magazine that is cost effective for the consumer and the publisher. The backbone of printed subscription based literature is advertising. It has been for more than a century. With a complete lack of outside advertising GW cant do anything to offset publishing cost (hence no discount for subscribers). Magazines offer a discount for subscribers as it raises their guaranteed circulation and thus they can grab consistently higher rates for advertising space. This is just basic business. Unless GW decides to turn WD into a forum for wargaming as a whole, which I don't forsee them doing the idea of WD will be completely dead inside 5-7 years as the consistently rising costs of production combined with declining sales figures as prices rise will make it a money losing proposition.

Why do people keep saying there is no discount for White Dwarf Subscriptions ?
12 White Dwarf at retail $108, $9 per issue
White Dwarf Subscription through GW $75, $6.25 per issue
White Dwarf Subscription through MiniaturesMarket $50, $4.16 per issue

Honestly, I think the easiest solution for GW is to allow outside advertising in White Dwarf. In this day of the information superhighway anyone with an internet connection will learn about alternatives to Warhammer. GW might as well make money from their competion by selling them add space.

 adamsouza wrote:

Honestly, I think the easiest solution for GW is to allow outside advertising in White Dwarf. In this day of the information superhighway anyone with an internet connection will learn about alternatives to Warhammer. GW might as well make money from their competion by selling them add space.

Lol. There are no real alternatives to Warhammer. And if there were, GW would *not* advertise them. Would you seriously carry adverts for your competitors in your own company's magazine?

Dragon Magazine ran for years with advertisements for plenty of other RPG's and it was basically a D&D advertising vessel.

Part of the problem with White Dwarf is that it is little more than a glorified monthly catalog. 10 pages of advertising that wasn't for GW product wouldn't hurt GW, but would provide valuable advetising revenue.

I could see ads from Mantic, Reaper, and WOTC all over it.

I once picked up a 2 pack of Dragon magazines on a whim when I got my first real job out of school. It was a little pricey since it was a 2 pack and apparently imported, but I can't blame the mag for the newsagent's prices.

What amazed me was all the content in there. For all kinds of things. It even flipped over to become D20 and half the mag was read the other way. Blew my mind.

I had NFI what any of it was, but it felt like a real magazine rather than just the monthly sales pitch.

I thumbed through some older WDs last night before bed. Ones that still had inserts. And holy crap I didn't realise how many Datafax, Wargear, and misc cards I still had in there. Even a freaking room, with rules and new gear, for Warhammer Quest. I hear HBMC salivating over that from here.

One of the issues was even the Battle Bunker for those that remember it. I understand that those things can't be cheap to print, but god damn opening one of those WDs back in the day was like Christmas.

I still have my free plastic Skinks somewhere. And my Skink shirt. BRING BACK THE SKINK SHIRTS YOU FETHERS.

Sorry. What were we talking about again? Oh right. I miss the old days. Back when you had to walk to school in the snow uphill both ways.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I've got on my shelf, along with old Army Books from the 90s (Dwarfs ftw!), a book called "How To Make Wargames Terrain" produced by Games Workshop.

Spoiler:

Do you know why we won't see books like this in the future? Because of this.

 Atma01 wrote:
Even a freaking room, with rules and new gear, for Warhammer Quest. I hear HBMC salivating over that from here.

Hold up. What room? Skaven-based or Chaos Dwarf-based? Actually - search your issue 190-220 issues (if you have any) for any Quest articles. I've got part 1 or something but not part 2, and it's always driven me mad.

DAMN!! They be some sweet transfers!

We'll see. In my four years of playing I probably have bought only 4 WD issues and usually it is due to the issue being about the release of an army I collect or the new paint set (with the little conversion guide in the back) or more recently, the 6th edition one which had previews of some rules. Issues like these I think have some value when they provide real content, but most seem to be advertisements for their models (with no prices of course).

If they just focused on what made issues good. Sneak previews, paint guides and maybe additional scenarios to be added then it would be worth the $9. They don't need a new editor. Just legitmate, helpful articles without the filler.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Atma01 wrote:
Even a freaking room, with rules and new gear, for Warhammer Quest. I hear HBMC salivating over that from here.

Hold up. What room? Skaven-based or Chaos Dwarf-based? Actually - search your issue 190-220 issues (if you have any) for any Quest articles. I've got part 1 or something but not part 2, and it's always driven me mad.

I have done so. And I will type out the results once I hear a 'please'. The Emperor abhors poor manners. With the exception of those who were raised in barns. Which I know you were not.

Are you HBMC's mum?

If so well done for reinforcing good manners.

No. But I've known him since I came over to the Deathworld known as Australia back in the mid 90's. So I can call her up though.

Only two people get to talk to me like that. My mother, Emperor rest her soul, and my Supervisor.

And hes not my Supervisor.

You hear me Matt? YOU'RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!

Oh god they have the tazers again. Gotta go.

I'm waiting for GW to incorporate an apple into their logo and sell Ipads at their stores

Price has to come down £4.50 is still over prices for what can only be described as an advert for their products. Goes back to reading my WD back issues when it was indie...

Please!

 DIDM wrote:
I'm waiting for GW to incorporate an apple into their logo and sell Ipads at their stores

No, no, no. You’re looking at it all wrong.

What they’ll do now is, thanks to their association with Apple, they’ll realise that pod casts are the latest*** thing, so they’ll start up their own series. They could call it... Citadel PodCast – just like a regular pod cast only you have to pay for it and the audio cuts out randomly every now and again (fixed with an iOS Citadel PodCast Audio Cleanup Kit).



H.B.M.C. – Taking tired old FineCast jokes and recycling them into new tired old FineCast jokes!



***Their definition of ‘latest’ might not be 100% accurate.

You aren't allowed to recycle Finecast.

Without buying a new Citadel Finecast Recylcing Kit!

Thank you. And I will be writing out what is in the WDs now and PM you.

Despite my lack of love for Apple, and owning and iPad (it was a gift!), if GW did release a limited edition run of an =I=Pad that looks like a dataslate I would be camped out in front of a GW store waiting for it. Because that would simply be too cool to not buy.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Actually yeah, if GW did release an =][= Pad, with a glowing Inquisitorial symbol in the centre... I'd be right there with you.

Its never been an independent publication, it just covered the whole hobby previously.

 adamsouza wrote:

I could see ads from Mantic, Reaper, and WOTC all over it.

GW: Looking for possible advertising customers ... and then sue them

Be aware that GW thinks that every non-GW-product remotely connected to their products is illegal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Actually yeah, if GW did release an =][= Pad, with a glowing Inquisitorial symbol in the centre... I'd be right there with you.

Against my better judgement, you can count me in too. Sad buggers, aren't we?

 Kroothawk wrote:
GW: Looking for possible advertising customers ... and then sue them

Be aware that GW thinks that every non-GW-product remotely connected to their products is illegal.

All I can think about it them acting like Earl Lemongrab from Adventure Time, every time they see something they think is infringing on their IP.



Or youtube if you want the sound. It really help hammer the point home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgzD3qMZIWs

 English Assassin wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Actually yeah, if GW did release an =][= Pad, with a glowing Inquisitorial symbol in the centre... I'd be right there with you.

Against my better judgement, you can count me in too. Sad buggers, aren't we?

No. We are simply consumers who know what we want. And are willing to admit don't have the willpower to resist it. That being said, if there is even a hint of Finecast in there the deal is off.

I'll just steal it instead.

 Atma01 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Atma01 wrote:
Even a freaking room, with rules and new gear, for Warhammer Quest. I hear HBMC salivating over that from here.

Hold up. What room? Skaven-based or Chaos Dwarf-based? Actually - search your issue 190-220 issues (if you have any) for any Quest articles. I've got part 1 or something but not part 2, and it's always driven me mad.

I have done so. And I will type out the results once I hear a 'please'. The Emperor abhors poor manners. With the exception of those who were raised in barns. Which I know you were not.

This post cannot be exhalted enough.

White Dwarf is like a joke without the punchline...it's just not funny. Full stop. Nothing worse than buying an issue, reading 3 pages and it just lies there gathering dust! General rule of thumb is only to buy one with a battle report but even they have gone stale. A good overhaul is needed

To those saying WD doesn't advertise anything else...the daemon issue from last month actually had an advertisement for the last FFG warhammer invasion card pack. Yes, I realize it's a game made by someone else based on GW IP, with GW's permission, but it's a start, right?

This month's WD had an advertisement for The Lathe Worlds (which I wrote part of). And the issue before that had an advertisement for Tome of Fate (which I also wrote part of).

It's kinda funny seeing WD advertise that stuff.

You a secret White Dwarf contributor 'H? Is it partly your fault?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
To those saying WD doesn't advertise anything else...the daemon issue from last month actually had an advertisement for the last FFG warhammer invasion card pack. Yes, I realize it's a game made by someone else based on GW IP, with GW's permission, but it's a start, right?

Back in 2004 they advertised for Dawn of War. If it's made by other companies with their IP, they still push it in the mag. They pretty much just relegate it to little blurbs and images though, instead of a good article or something.

Yeah they defo need to have a look at WD.. If they just wrote it like normal magazines, it would be bang on. You know, like.. actually put some effort in?

They could write all sorts of articles, be it hobby related, bat reps, even just stories about different blokes who have been into the hobby for a while.. or getting a gaming club to write up their own games, different peoples paint schemes and conversions and such.. anything even remotely interesting.

Kinda like FHM except not completely dog-gak. I reckon even I could write something worth a few pages.. the current cookie cutter "every month identical but a bit different" build is shocking.

My missus got me a 12 month sub and I think all 12 issues were done and dusted inside an hour. It really sucks, because lets be honest, If it was even half decent I'm sure plenty of us would happily buy it.

 Sephyr wrote:

 George Spiggott wrote:
They brought in a professional editor before, then overruled him when his professional opinion disagreed with GW ideology.

I work in publishing and this is sadly a very prevalent mindset.

"Hire the best talent in the market so I can ignore the crap out of him/her!"

This.I want them to move away from being seen as just a catalogue,but i am still very doubtful they will.

Does no one remember all the stuff they did for Firewarrior? Not only did they do a whole article for it, they made a La'Kais conversion, and scenario with special rules. I think they even did a little battle report for the scenario. One of the few times they got cross-promotion right. And it was wasted on that game.

For me the biggest surprise is that they aren't cashing in on the 40K RPGs by really pushing them in WD (like whole articles) with the caveat of "Hey you know what you NEED to play these games? MODELS! And we sell those!". We know that one doesn't actually need models to play, but their current target consumer base doesn't. So whilst GW are getting their short term money injections, we sowing the seeds of future DH/RT/DW/BC/OW players.

Then those players will eventually grow up, get burned by GW, join Dakka, and the cycle of table-top gaming will be complete.

Must've missed that Fire Warrior issue; that sounds pretty cool! I wish they'd do something similar for the Dawn of War games or Space Marine. I would have loved to see some 'Eavy Metal painted Blood Ravens based on the characters from DoW2 for instance.

 Atma01 wrote:
Does no one remember all the stuff they did for Firewarrior? Not only did they do a whole article for it, they made a La'Kais conversion, and scenario with special rules. I think they even did a little battle report for the scenario. One of the few times they got cross-promotion right. And it was wasted on that game.

For me the biggest surprise is that they aren't cashing in on the 40K RPGs by really pushing them in WD (like whole articles) with the caveat of "Hey you know what you NEED to play these games? MODELS! And we sell those!". We know that one doesn't actually need models to play, but their current target consumer base doesn't. So whilst GW are getting their short term money injections, we sowing the seeds of future DH/RT/DW/BC/OW players.

Then those players will eventually grow up, get burned by GW, join Dakka, and the cycle of table-top gaming will be complete.

GW get a set licence fee for that off of FFG. While they have an interest in the line being successful if it sells +/- 5000 copies it doesnt make much difference.

GW have pretty much always had 3rd party licenced products in WD, from the current crop of RPGs and video games right back to the play by phone games and a racing dingy they sponsored.

Probably not feasible, but maybe if WD would throw in an exclusive mini or bits with magazine, or even card playing aids like they use to do, that would help.

Way back 10 plus years they gave away a free necron.

About issue 115 ish when they produced there first plastic dwarf they gave one away.

I hope WD goes back to the magazine I knew and loved, but to be honest, the only way it will improve is if it goes digital, that idea I hate, I have an iPad, and it's not my favourite toy lol.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Must've missed that Fire Warrior issue; that sounds pretty cool! I wish they'd do something similar for the Dawn of War games or Space Marine. I would have loved to see some 'Eavy Metal painted Blood Ravens based on the characters from DoW2 for instance.

They did it for the original release of the first DoW. They converted a Gabriel Angelos with two-handed Thunder Hammer, made up terrain to look like the Marine buildings, and did a DoW based bat rep.

I'm waiting for the return of the bolt thrower flexidisk...

Koppo wrote:
I'm waiting for the return of the bolt thrower flexidisk...

Well, Sabbat (who did the flexi-disc, by the way, not Bolt Thrower) have reformed, and I'll bet they'll be up for it if GW are...

I thought GW Corp wiped out the heavy metal-listening brigade. All of them. Even when I was young(er) and impressionable I thought that flexidisc was odd.

PS Didn't they ought to rebrand their inhouse painters as the Resin Lite team?

Magnamaniac wrote:
Way back 10 plus years they gave away a free necron.

About issue 115 ish when they produced there first plastic dwarf they gave one away.

I hope WD goes back to the magazine I knew and loved, but to be honest, the only way it will improve is if it goes digital, that idea I hate, I have an iPad, and it's not my favourite toy lol.

The last one I got was the metal Mordheim Elf special character.

The problem with free minis is that GW would have to make a special sprue for a single model as their pretty much 4 to a sprue in most boxes. The alternative is a special character like the WHFB plastic single we can get these days.

They should commission a Rebecca Black flexi disk.

Good to hear. I hope they go digital as well.

 Atma01 wrote:
Does no one remember all the stuff they did for Firewarrior? Not only did they do a whole article for it, they made a La'Kais conversion, and scenario with special rules. I think they even did a little battle report for the scenario. One of the few times they got cross-promotion right. And it was wasted on that game.

They built a whole trench board for that game and invited the game's devs to play.

 English Assassin wrote:

Koppo wrote:
I'm waiting for the return of the bolt thrower flexidisk...

Well, Sabbat (who did the flexi-disc, by the way, not Bolt Thrower) have reformed, and I'll bet they'll be up for it if GW are...

I stand corrected, Bolt Thrower was the only name I could think of.

You needn't apologize, I was initially so enthused to be reminded that I failed to notice.

Unlike Bolt Thrower, it's worth pointing out that Sabbat weren't actually that bad; I've just dug out History of a Time to Come, and it's aged surprisingly well.

All the gak they did for Firewarrior and DOW sounds totally awesome. That's the kinda gak I'm talking about!

If this is actually true, I'l probably end up subscribing because I love reading about warhammer.

Here's another thought...

White Dwarf has changed drastically in the last couple of months (and not for the better IMHO). How do we know that the big "improvement" hasn't already happened?

So, has anyone heard anything about when where likely to see the new all singing, all dancing WD?

Wonder if they will make any reference to the changes, or if they'll just sneak it out and hope noone notices.

 Flashman wrote:
Here's another thought...

White Dwarf has changed drastically in the last couple of months (and not for the better IMHO). How do we know that the big "improvement" hasn't already happened?

That was my fear as well actually. You can imagine the conversation:
Exec A: OK, sales of White Dwarf have fallen. We need to pick them up again.
Exec B: Well, that's pretty simple. We can just increase their budget slightly, allowing more time on the magazine for the journalists writing articles.
Exec C: OR! We can just put some rules in for new models that are coming out, and make sure they are only available in the magazine. That way the fans will be forced to buy it, and we can keep running the magazine on the proceeds from Citadel water pot sales?
Exec A & B: Genius!!


Although, probably the easiest way is to check the editorial and other contributing staff?

 English Assassin wrote:
You needn't apologize, I was initially so enthused to be reminded that I failed to notice.

Unlike Bolt Thrower, it's worth pointing out that Sabbat weren't actually that bad; I've just dug out History of a Time to Come, and it's aged surprisingly well.

Heretic, Bolthrower are brilliant and still going strong even now.

I think WD's looking a lot better now than it has in the past (certainly it's been through worse patches than it's in now). I've got the first 50 WDs and every copy since about 83 and can tell you that there have always been complaints of some sort or other. To find a whole magazine's worth of orginal GW content every month is a very tall order and I think that the balance they strike now is pretty good. in terms of rules I remember the days when you not only had to have a rule book but a dozen WDs booked marked for the various rules, army lists and whatnot. Noone would want a return to that I'm sure...

One thing they could do more with would be getting some really quality painting in there - they went through a period of doing guides on specific figures and techniques that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Good, cheap content that I'm sure people appreciated.

On the point of subscriptions I cancelled mine a while back - delivery had been really ropey and when they took to delivering after the magazine came out in the shops it seemed that one of the biggest benefits became a drawback.

Still love WD, always will.

ithilmere wrote:I think WD's looking a lot better now than it has in the past (certainly it's been through worse patches than it's in now). I've got the first 50 WDs and every copy since about 83 and can tell you that there have always been complaints of some sort or other.

Other people have said this too, but I think it's true. There are plenty of gems to be found by pawing through old issues, but there are plenty of duds, too. It's like arguing about Saturday Night Live. Everyone always says the current cast/season is crap, and the old ones are better. Then a few years go by, and suddenly the new one is crap, and the old one is better.

One thing I will add is that I consider my collection of WD to be "greater than the sum of its parts". I don't play LotR and don't have any inclination to do so, and the related articles were always low on my list. Except when I wanted to compile different campaign rules, and went back to find that one Easterling campaign they did. And the time I was painting some big monsters and wanted to see what colors they used on the Mumaks. It's things like this that keep me buying it every month, instead of skipping issues that have mostly fantasy stuff, etc.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Atma01 wrote:
Even a freaking room, with rules and new gear, for Warhammer Quest. I hear HBMC salivating over that from here.

Hold up. What room? Skaven-based or Chaos Dwarf-based? Actually - search your issue 190-220 issues (if you have any) for any Quest articles. I've got part 1 or something but not part 2, and it's always driven me mad.

Not sure if you're serious, but you can check here to help figure out what you're missing. Also, I have almost all of those issues, so if you want to know something specific, I could help.

And that goes back to my last point. I never owned or played WHQ, so at the time I skipped all those articles. But then there was this big Kickstarter thing, and now I find myself looking for dungeon adventure stuff.

- H8

Hatemonger wrote:
Not sure if you're serious, but you can check here to help figure out what you're missing. Also, I have almost all of those issues, so if you want to know something specific, I could help.

And that goes back to my last point. I never owned or played WHQ, so at the time I skipped all those articles. But then there was this big Kickstarter thing, and now I find myself looking for dungeon adventure stuff.

- H8

Oh he was serious. Though it was more for the fact he wants to get those issues off me. But they are my babies, so I am opting to scan what I have instead. I will of course put it up later.

If you have the means to scan, and wish the help fight the good fight, PM me and we can (stop) collaborate (and listen).

Also in case others haven't seen it, and have an iOS device, there is a Warhammer Quest game being made by Rodeo. Here is the thread;
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/471306.page

The plot is thickening, posted on Warseer:

Desaster wrote:Hello,
I was at the local GW today (Halle, Germany) and was told that there will be an announcement of a "massive change" for the White Dwarf on September 29th.
Sadly that is all I got, therefore I want to ask if anybody else has heard something similar.

Sorry for the very vague post, I am not even sure if this is something only affecting the german issue or the WD in general.

So we have a date ... and some job openings in Halle

Sounds like a good move to me. WD has been pretty boring lately...

There was pretty much nothing to read in this month's issue, other than text describing the pictures above it and advertising.

There is a pic of the new cover in the CSM rumor thread.

 Flashman wrote:
Here's another thought...

White Dwarf has changed drastically in the last couple of months (and not for the better IMHO). How do we know that the big "improvement" hasn't already happened?

Well no, otherwise the announcement would have been several months ago... The new White Dwarf will be the next issue.

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
So, has anyone heard anything about when where likely to see the new all singing, all dancing WD?

 Kroothawk wrote:
The plot is thickening, posted on Warseer:
So we have a date ... and some job openings in Halle

Release date is September 22nd, just in time for UK Gamesday.
Don't know what that guy in Germany is on about, unless they're getting it at the normal time (last saturday of the month) and it's only UK getting it early for Gamesday.

Can we please keep the White Dwarf discussion to the newer thread?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/476176.page

Yes, we can!