Couldn't find a space wolf thread so decided to make my own.

What do you guys think about ditching the rhinos, maxing out on long fangs with missile launchers, and running all footslogging grey hunters?

Honestly, sixth edition has done in a problem for the wolves of Fenris. Our transports are considerably trash now, as almost anything can glance them to death, and only make it up to mid-field.

What I'm thinking, is footslogging 10 Grey Hunters in a squad with a wolf guard in terminator armor, with a combi plasma, and a standard of course for them yummy re-rolls. As an HQ choice, Rune Priests are still staples, so you shouldn't rethink this.

I think sixth really brings out the life in ThunderWolf Cavalry. Personally running footslogging space wolves, and having speedy cavalry running to flank enemies big guns is working out wonderfully. Especially with a Wolf Lord on a mount leading the charge. Land Speeders are our new support of high strength weapons. Razorbacks are good, but because of the limited number of shots and the unavailability to get cover saves now in 6th, the land speeder Jink save seems like the new plan.

What have you? What do you run in your lists of 6th edition?




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Eddited 10/25/12

Wow! Look at all the responses. Going to make a checklist of what I've seen.

Pros In 6th:
-Foot Wolves are the new thing. Get real Pops.
-Think you can mass flyers and be safe? Mass Drop Pods! Genious with the amount of combi and meltas wolf guards and regular grey hunters can take
-Wolf Priests! Yes! They Exist! Transporting around the map will be ever so easier now with the ever so popular outflank ability from Saga Of the Hunter, SOTH!
-Long Fangs. Yeah. They're actually still amazing. Waiting on the patchnotes for the skyfire missiles.

-BONUS NOTE -> If I'm assuming this correctly (Which I most Often times don't) Using the QuadGun from the Aegis Defense Line would be perfect for the long fang captains. As if he is manning the Quad gun, the rule for Fire Control Reads something like this. (I don't know the exact wording) "If the long fang captain doesn't fire in the shooting phase, then he can direct fire with fire control splitting targets with each longfang."

MEANING - That if you fire interceptor with the Aegis Defense Line, you can still choose to split fire, because you are not shooting on your turn. I'll look up the rules when I get home.

-Rune Priests are still amazing. JOTWW 4Life
-WGBL - Wolf Guard Battle Leader + 13 Blood Claws + Ragnar + Landraider + Saga of the hunter = Holyfun time.


Now The Bad - Or because of the mixed feelings..The "Not So Optimal" List of what we should do as soldiers of Fenris on the battlefield.
-Rhinos are extremely 'MEH' for 6th as they are now being glanced to death. They are okay for their points, but why take this mode of transportation when you could take a drop pod.
-TWC are EXPENSIVE as HELL. And it really bothers me because it can't automatically give you a run+charge lock in now. Eh. Atleast it gets hammer of wrath.
-Dreadnoughts are still expensive as hell and don't do their job effectively. I've yet to drop dreadnought + Drop pod, but I think they're way too expensive for what they do.
-Grey Hunter Leadership is 8. Get some friggen wolf guards in there. Gogo!



That's it so far. Good points will be posted here.

Rhino's are not trash, your over thinking it dramatically. only str 5 or higher can damage one, and thats really no different from before. so for the avg marine they would have to throw out the same weapons the shot at your rhinos before to take them down.

so to break down a rhino currently can move 12" in movement, 6" in shooting, so 18" total which is more than before unless they were fast vehicles. (like BA) What DOES suck for rhino/razorbackspam is that you can't assault after getting out of one.

just because something can die to glances doesnt make it trash, just use it more wisely. Razorspam still works if you want to use something in tandem with it. and i dont know how you figure they cannot get a cover save when 25% of facing is rediculously small.

so instead of an I win button you just have to rethink how you play your units, not "well no more I win spam, those are trash now"

Agreed, Rhinos are actually still pretty handy. Disembark and then rapid fire at whatever you want, then flat out the Rhino to use it as a shield (alternatively, just disembark behind the Rhino and force the enemy to waste shots on your mobile bunker if they want to kill you). Plus they can act as LOS blockers and tank shock units after the occupants disembark.

That said, I'm leaning towards drop pods currently... damn my wallet...

I found Speeders with double bolters to be very good. As I currently use no other Fast Attack, I take 3 singles. They are very flexible and hard to kill if used right.

I always have problems finding a good firing place for Long Fangs, let alone 3. So I prefer to take just 1 squad and a Bastion. A Diviniation Runepriest (with Chooser) mans the Icarus and add a Cylone if possible. A small GH squad goes inside the Bastion to a) man the bolters b) protect the Fangs from assault and c) grab a nearby objective in the last turn.

I tend to take a Vindi and a dakka pred as the other support choices. The vindi often does not much more than drawing a lot of fire and influencing the opponents deployment/movement in turn 1, but that's already worth the 115 points in my book. If I can land a solid hit on something expensive it's just the icing on the cake. The Pred if used cautiously survives most games and is cheaper and more mobile than Fangs.

So far I only own 1 Drop Pod, but I plan to get 2 more to be able to drop termis and a GH squad on Turn 1 to support each other. All GHs not in Pods (or the bastion) tend to get a Rhino for mobility and protection.

I've thought about running a similar list, lots of foot GHs with Terminator WG. Even had one outflanking with a Wolf Priest.

I think you need keep a little mobility in the army, footing it isn't going to cut it for the late game. I decided to keep a couple rhinos rather than ditch all of them. And I may even try out the solo drop pod melta squad tactic.

reps0l wrote:
I've thought about running a similar list, lots of foot GHs with Terminator WG. Even had one outflanking with a Wolf Priest.

I think you need keep a little mobility in the army, footing it isn't going to cut it for the late game. I decided to keep a couple rhinos rather than ditch all of them. And I may even try out the solo drop pod melta squad tactic.

This.

I think outflanking and drop pods are the new sense of mobility in 6th. I think a squad of wolfguard in a drop pod with a wolf priest outflanking with a terminator or two would be devistating. Along with TONS of plasma-combi plasma foot wolves chasing you down!

What does everyone think about Speeders?

Monasou wrote:
What does everyone think about Speeders?

Ha, I hate them when I play against them because they can lay down some firepower. And I hate them when I use them cause they always seem to die too fast.

I think they can be used very well in 6th but I have no experience with or against SW.

I've used Saga of the Hunter to outflank a loaded Grey Hunters pack and while it worked out pretty good, it also died fairly easily. I believe with the Wolves since fielding so much infantry is so easy it's imperative that all units are supported. I try not to send any units to do any jobs by themselves.

Outflanking Grey Hunters pack? Add an outflanking Wolf Scouts pack armed with Bolters and a meltagun.

Drop podding anything? Drop two. I'll always take a minimum of three drops and a maximum of five. I don't want to go all or nothing on the drop pods but also find the solo pod to be fickle.

Ranged weaponry is vital. Don't stick exclusively to the 24" band or you'll regret it against faster armies.

 derpyhooves72 wrote:
Outflanking Grey Hunters pack? Add an outflanking Wolf Scouts pack armed with Bolters and a meltagun.

I don't think these are points well spent since you cannot control if the 2 units come on the board simultaneously. I add a terminator wolf guard to my outflanking grey hunter pack to help out.

reps0l wrote:

 derpyhooves72 wrote:
Outflanking Grey Hunters pack? Add an outflanking Wolf Scouts pack armed with Bolters and a meltagun.

I don't think these are points well spent since you cannot control if the 2 units come on the board simultaneously. I add a terminator wolf guard to my outflanking grey hunter pack to help out.

If you purchase the comm tower with one of the fortifications then you get to reroll reserve rolls. Combine this with acute senses and the Space Wolves have almost as accurate a chance at coming in together as anything. And if worst comes to worst and this fails (low percentage) then you can also have a third drop pod in reserve to lend support where it's needed.

just a quick question: how easy is it to transition from C:SM to space wolves?

and yould a knight theme be to far out there?

Well first of all comming from chaos to wolves is:
1 Your a real man now eat drink be jolly
2 In battle murder everyone/thing that is not for the emperium. As well as be a bad @$$
3 repeat.
4 Don't take $hit from the inquisition (that's only rarely most inqs have learned wolves dont like em)

If you mean codex marines same thing as above applies as well as stop following papa smurfs rules down to the dot.

knights are cool so why not.

Just a general thing.

Power and force mauls are excellent, so good and so cheap and so str6.

Hb long fangs put out way too much fire power for their target to not look like swiss cheese.

Divination is very very good in terms of usefulness.

Has anyone tried fenrisian wolves in small games? (750-1250)

Also at what points level would you start taking fortifications and or things to deal with flyers? So far i have just gotten super lucky when it comes to em.

Any thoughts on ghp composition? keep the weapons the same or mix and match?

 cowpow16 wrote:
.

Any thoughts on gh composition? Keep the weapons the same or mix and match?

Mixing and matching seems like a great way to waste 1 weapon each time you fire. It's incredibly temping for me to mix melta and plasma to keep the plasma free, and it's not too bad since plasma can at least attempt to glance most vehicles. It still seems really inefficient when you're sitting on an objective shooting 24" away thinking "man I wish I had another plasma shot." Similarly when your melta misses a tank plasma seems pretty pathetic in its place. So don't mix is what I'm getting at.

I've been running 8 Gh with a wolf guard terminator combi-melta/plasma and Storm shield in drop pods. They don't die. They alpha strike well with the combi-weapon and even a "suicide melta" squad can be a thorn in your opponents deployment zone for a few turns able to soak up a ton of fire power. If your opponent finds it hard to deal with 2 squads with a 2+ 3++ tank who dropped in on turn one, they get very worried when the same thing happens on turn 2. I even had a foolish guard player risk an executioner shooting at my GHs with Wolf guard, only for one of the shots to scatter onto his own troops.

So wait what is the consensus for special weapons in GH squads then? Either double meltas or double plasmas? and flamers are ignored?

I would take one squad with double flamer in a Pod. Good for taking over your opponents aegis quadgun

Ragnar69 wrote:
I would take one squad with double flamer in a Pod. Good for taking over your opponents aegis quadgun

Personally seen some devastating results from Multi-melta + heavy flamer dread nought drop poding in turn one.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
So wait what is the consensus for special weapons in GH squads then? Either double meltas or double plasmas? and flamers are ignored?

Flamers are fine. The idea is just get 2 of the same weapon. Don't mix and match.

reps0l wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
So wait what is the consensus for special weapons in GH squads then? Either double meltas or double plasmas? and flamers are ignored?

Flamers are fine. The idea is just get 2 of the same weapon. Don't mix and match.

I'll pass it along to my friend thanks

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
So wait what is the consensus for special weapons in GH squads then? Either double meltas or double plasmas? and flamers are ignored?

I think melta has dropped a bit due to the advent of overwatch. Flamers are great for overwatch and plasma guns are fantastic in conjunction with boltguns, particularly since 6E made rapid fire weapons much more mobile.

I try to get my melta on land speeders.

Would you say Land Speeders are a better thing for marines to take the Thunderwolves? I think the thunderwolf calv is great and all but ...so many points...

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
Would you say Land Speeders are a better thing for marines to take the Thunderwolves? I think the thunderwolf calv is great and all but ...so many points...

Thunderwolves work really well in a foot list (can include drop pods) and Land Speeders work really well in a more mechanized list (Rhinos, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, etc).

My list from fifth still works with slight tweaks.

Thundercav are dead. No more wound shenanigans and they still die to weight of fire. Had my 275 lord capped to the black mace... Yea, 1:36 chance but still sucked. If you use them as a diversion, great .however, I fear the Death Star is dead.

Long Fangs are still the best. Three squads on a sky shield means 3+,4++. Twin link frag launchers and watch the wounds pile up! The way people huddle up behind cover or in cover more so now means template heaven.

Rhinos are still boss. Grey hunters are midfield masters. Use that 18" first turn to be where you need to be. If its night fighting, pop smoke for a beefy cover save after going 12".

Footsloggers fad won't last long. The CSM new des has a ton of "dead marine" torrent templates. Other folks will start to pick up on this. Remember, that little metal box is one round of shooting protection too!

I used a ton of plasma in 5e, so I welcome sixth as all my old toys are so much better. Seriously, plasma guns and cannons are awesome,

Just my thoughts. I'd not footslog right now. Too easy to pick them up.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
Would you say Land Speeders are a better thing for marines to take the Thunderwolves? I think the thunderwolf calv is great and all but ...so many points...

I'd agree. Thunderwolves are great but they just soak up so many points. The tough decision is whether to go the Land Speeder route or use more points in Elite choices.

I believe you can still sort of run wound allocation shenanigans if you involve a Saga of the Bear Wolf Lord. It's not as easy but essentially, put the Lord in the lead and use Look out Sir! to determine where every wound goes. The odd 1 that you drop on a LoS won't be a big deal since the Lord himself is so tough to begin with.

Essentially, normal wounds get LoS on a regular TWC with CCW/BP, invuln wounds go on a TWC with SS, and the first two S10 AP3 (or less) wounds go on to the Fenrisian Wolves and then are absorbed by the Thunderlord after that.

Still, the downside is that any army with any form of maneuverability could get around that. It puts the onus on you to properly place everyone. Further, it's an invitation for large blast templates (battle cannon?) since you'll have to bunch everyone up equidistant from the Lord so you can decide where the LoS wound goes to (due to the closest model having to take the wound).

It's tricky but very powerful if you pull it off. It'll work better against static armies than fast armies.

I have been running a foot slogger list atm. not because its "the best" but because i have wanted to since like 3rd.

They are a bit slow bit ml and hb give good supporting fire. I have also found very few people shoot hb lfs don't know why just something i noticed. With divination those guys really hurt

I also have to Ask again: How good is the elite choices this edition?

 derpyhooves72 wrote:
I believe you can still sort of run wound allocation shenanigans if you involve a Saga of the Bear Wolf Lord. It's not as easy but essentially, put the Lord in the lead and use Look out Sir! to determine where every wound goes. The odd 1 that you drop on a LoS won't be a big deal since the Lord himself is so tough to begin with.

Essentially, normal wounds get LoS on a regular TWC with CCW/BP, invuln wounds go on a TWC with SS, and the first two S10 AP3 (or less) wounds go on to the Fenrisian Wolves and then are absorbed by the Thunderlord after that.

Still, the downside is that any army with any form of maneuverability could get around that. It puts the onus on you to properly place everyone. Further, it's an invitation for large blast templates (battle cannon?) since you'll have to bunch everyone up equidistant from the Lord so you can decide where the LoS wound goes to (due to the closest model having to take the wound).

It's tricky but very powerful if you pull it off. It'll work better against static armies than fast armies.

Look out sure is now automatically allocated to the closest model. It was FAQ'd

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I also have to Ask again: How good is the elite choices this edition?

Our wolf scouts took a hit since they can no longer assault when they come on.

Our terminators became great because of the power weapon rules...combi-plasmas w/ free power axes/swords makes for a nice drop pod unit that's likely to survive.

I never liked lone wolves, but they're probably just as good as they alway were.

Dreadnoughts...maybe ok? I've always included one in a pod in my armies but I never expect anything out of them really.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I also have to Ask again: How good are the elite choices this edition?

The elite choices are still good. Terminators can be almost as effective (think axe over p-fist) as tac termies in C:SM for cheaper, but with the bonus of taking SS on a couple to mitigate AP2. Similarly, they can use this tanking tactic on GH squads with a combi-whatever to make up for the loss of a special weapon.

Lone Wolves are a fire and forget choice. Go towards the toughest enemy or tank you want to die, eventually they get there and do some damage, or soak up fire, which is awesome.

In my opinion Scouts and Dreads are less effective. Scouts miss the ability to assault with melta-bombs or tie up a unit the turn they come on, but can still field an anti-tank roll with a melta-gun, but there are so many better ways of doing this. Hull points and AV12 killed dreads. Or at least, whenever I see someone field one it's about 105+ points I can ignore and take down at my leisure.

What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

syypher wrote:
What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

Aegis Defense Line

another question for wolfers

how do we get around purgation squad spams? I have an opponent I often face who bring 2 full units of (i think) 5-man purgation squads with psycannons and sit and camp (CS 1.6-style). I cant move in to grab center position with those guys shooting at me.

My three cents (been a while since I been on, so I threw in an extra penny):

Rhinos are not bad, even with death by glance now possible. I'd use them for what they were meant to be, transport. If I can gun a unit of GH 18 in up, that's three turns of regular movement they've not had to take part of. Additionally, the drive and spray option, or the jump out and rapid fire is still a very viable action, especially with countercharge.
Losing the assault out of the vehicle is unfortunate, but not game ending in my opinion... we have counter charge, AND overwatch now.

That to me, leaves the first turn rhino death problem... well... dozer blade them and hide them in cover. With the new cover rules, 25% obscured means you get a save, no? If the vehicle immobilizes, it becomes a stormbolter turret with a 1/6 chance of moving again per turn, and with the blades, your chances of having that 1 pop up are lessened. I'd rather chance the immobilization than give up the free kill point due to a lack of cover save.

Re drop pods. I use seven in some games.... but purely to drop all that is unholy and unpleasant into my opponents backside. Grey hunters with rune priests, melta, or double melta grey hunters are my go to's with pods. If I'm feeling saucy or did not want to pack so many models, dropping 5 man units of wolf guard termies or 4 man units with logan, njal, or arjack is also a popular choice, especially with combiweapons. I find this to be really useful against parking lot armies, and cover camping armies like eldar/guard/tau.

Re the new chaos dinobots:

The gunbot - longfangs from far, or failing that, drop pod grey hunters. If you can manage to off the three cannon monster with a 220 pt unit of hunters and maybe have them last one more turn before they are offed, as far as i am concerned they earned their keep.

the mauler fiend: lone wolves in terminator armor w/ chain fist and combimelta. I have had good luck with one of these guys (I call him loki) against battle wagons, stopped it dead in its tracks, held a carnifex long enough to allow the rest of my army to face and fire the thing to death, and really believe that the maulerfiend would have similar difficulties dealing.

with all the fliers out there, I suggest either taking allies (guard vendettas are my choice) or an aegis defense line quad or icarus (I'd suggest icarus) manned by a character. Stock options I go with longfangs and just saturate the hell out of the unit with high strength fire and hope for the best. Failing that, I'd say trying a rifledread, or getting some friends with stormtalons.

I'm a fan of the idea that the quicker we get our hands on the other guy, the less likely he is able to use heavy guns to hurt our units... especially units that can be engaged in combat, even if you lose the attacking unit in the end, you managed to stop it from shooting you for however long you kept em in combat.

My last point is specific to apoc... don't discount the usefulness of skyclaws, swiftclaws, or a bucketload of bloodclaws in a crusader and attached to a wolfpriest, especially if you hide a power fist and meltabomb or meltagun in the unit. They may have a lower BS/WS, but at high points games, the loss of 500 pts of them to cause havok in the opponents backfield, or kill of superheavies, is priceless.

 derpyhooves72 wrote:

syypher wrote:
What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

Aegis Defense Line

Not much you can do. 5+ is a lot even for a quad gun. Just play the mission and use your positioning well.

Why not tryout an all out drop pod list? this could help you against flyers, simply because you are going to on their side of the deployment field. Plus you are covering the field with troops and vehicle, which made flyer harder to move into position.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
Why not tryout an all out drop pod list? this could help you against flyers, simply because you are going to on their side of the deployment field. Plus you are covering the field with troops and vehicle, which made flyer harder to move into position.

that is a good way to solve it. you will also get the advantage of a great alpha-strike at an already weaken army (since he spends points on flyers).

What Ive heard, and recognize without ever have tried it myself. is that drop podding is dangerous for most part since your army will be dispatched in parts and cannot rely on the synergy which is space wolves core.

Rhino's In my opinion are very bad, no more assaulting out, if your shaken or stunned then guranteed next shooting phase of yours that the passengers cant do jack, no assaulting, and the shaken penalty applies to them even if they do disembark so no shooting., really, I personally think they are somewhat of a death trap, because they can be stalled so easily.

As an advid Rhino user, I find them not to be so bad. they really help transport the troops around and act as a buffer against things that would kill me guys in one turn. Are SW's rhinos different?

I feel like Rhinos are a bit of both. Awesome because instead of losing a few guys you lose the Rhino. If it survives it's gravy on top because now you got some speed. If it doesn't survive then you at least protected your guys turn 1-2 for a bit.

ANY half decent army can take out your Rhinos if they really want to turn 1. You have 4 or 5 or them? You'll lose 3+ of them if your opponent really wants you on foot. Think about your own army list and do the Math Hammer, it's not that hard if you want to ignore the rest of the army and take out their army to ground their guys.

The real question is if you take lets say 3 or 4 or 5+ Rhinos/even RBs can fall under this category...would it be better to save that 140+ points and just take another squad of GH's or more threats? That's the REAL question. Do the other things in your army warrant your opponent ignoring it because your Rhinos/RBs and guys inside are threatening enough to want to shoot them? Do you have no mobility in the rest of your army that making your guys walk will cripply you that badly? What units in your army would cause your opponent to disregard the Rhinos completely because they are priority #1? (Typhoon Speeders IMO fall into this category)

Of course also taking into the fact all the other things everyone else said with how stunning a Rhino/RB will also stun the guys inside etc.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
Why not tryout an all out drop pod list? this could help you against flyers, simply because you are going to on their side of the deployment field. Plus you are covering the field with troops and vehicle, which made flyer harder to move into position.

I had an opponent do this to me. My answer: deep strike the fliers. Yeah my rear armor was facing the LFs, but they still have to roll a 6 to hit. The tactic sounds better than it is. In all honesty, there's just not a lot you can do against multiple fliers as SW other than abuse cover and go on the offensive.

syypher wrote:
I feel like Rhinos are a bit of both. Awesome because instead of losing a few guys you lose the Rhino. If it survives it's gravy on top because now you got some speed. If it doesn't survive then you at least protected your guys turn 1-2 for a bit.

ANY half decent army can take out your Rhinos if they really want to turn 1. You have 4 or 5 or them? You'll lose 3+ of them if your opponent really wants you on foot. Think about your own army list and do the Math Hammer, it's not that hard if you want to ignore the rest of the army and take out their army to ground their guys.

The real question is if you take lets say 3 or 4 or 5+ Rhinos/even RBs can fall under this category...would it be better to save that 140+ points and just take another squad of GH's or more threats? That's the REAL question. Do the other things in your army warrant your opponent ignoring it because your Rhinos/RBs and guys inside are threatening enough to want to shoot them? Do you have no mobility in the rest of your army that making your guys walk will cripply you that badly? What units in your army would cause your opponent to disregard the Rhinos completely because they are priority #1? (Typhoon Speeders IMO fall into this category)

Of course also taking into the fact all the other things everyone else said with how stunning a Rhino/RB will also stun the guys inside etc.

An important drawback with rhino/razor transports is that you cannot have the o so wonderfull wolf guard terminator to lead them. It is really awsome treat for space wolves that our troop sergant can wear a freaking terminator armour. He will still die to massed fire or low ap fire that would else have aimed for viechles but If you get these badass units in to close combat they are a serious pain to regular troop units.

have people tried 5 man GH squads with wolf guard terminator foot-slogging? just swarming the table with these, and also put 3+ drop pods with them, that would make for some good cheap objective grabbing right?

Why just 5 man squads? You can easily fill the 6 slots this way with 10 man units, unless you are looking to do some double FOC shenanigans.

What is the general consensus for gearing Wolf Guard Terminators? What combination of Combi-Weapons, Power Weapons, Thunder Hammers, or Wolf Claws would be optimal on a 4-5 man squad in a drop pod? Should the Wolf Claws always be taken in pairs, if at all?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any comments or criticisms?

I'm currently thinking about something like this for a Wolf Guard Pack

1 Wolf Guard Pack
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)

Are the claws worth it? Should the P-Fist be something else? How about Shield+Hammer? Thoughts please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/19 06:30:28

I currently use:

Wolf Lord, TDA, Hammer, combi-plasma
TDA, melta, chainfist,
TDA melta,sword
TDA, plasma, sword
TDA flamer, fist.

I had actually build them for the 3rd ed codex and I didn't want to change them. They are still the old metal ones, not easy to get replacement parts

I think everyone should have a combi-weapon as all they can do is shoot the turn they drop pod. IMHO the shield is too expensive as I tend to lose them more to failed 2+ than to failed 5++ but YMMV

kaoticfry wrote:


1 Wolf Guard Pack
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Combi-Plas, P-Fist)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Wolf Claw x2)

Are the claws worth it? Should the P-Fist be something else? How about Shield+Hammer? Thoughts please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/19 06:30:28

double wolf claws are not worth it anymore since it is the same price as WC+PF and you get +1 attack for wielding two special weapons. so same price same amount of attacks but a choice if you want I4S 4A P3 or I1 S8 AP2. However I dont know if the PF+WC combo is good due to lack of shooting ability. I would put such wolf guards to lead 15man blood claws (since their job is assault based) but for GH im more into combi-plasma + WC for cheapness. they kill marines and less armoured units and then you stay the hell away from other terminator units (let your own terminators or TWC take care of these)

kaoticfry wrote:
What is the general consensus for gearing Wolf Guard Terminators? What combination of Combi-Weapons, Power Weapons, Thunder Hammers, or Wolf Claws would be optimal on a 4-5 man squad in a drop pod? Should the Wolf Claws always be taken in pairs, if at all?

I think this is missing the niche that wolf guard can supply. As a previous poster pointed out you can have a terminator lead a squad to stop your squad getting shot up so easily. Coupled with drop pods this really increases the effectiveness of a unit lead by a character more than able to hold his own in most challenges.

You can also use a small squad for suicide melta. Coming down on turn one with 5 combi meltas can take out a major threat very quickly. Compare this to other suicide melta eg storm troopers. You get 3 more melta shots, more accurate deep striking for 35 points more. This doesn't take into account 3+ armour or increased toughness. I chose stormies as its the only one I'm very familiar with.

I'm not a fan of wg terminators as a unit they just seem too expensive for their task. Especially as you have to pay extra to deep strike only 5 of them compared to their vanilla counterparts.

If their job is to catch the fire that your FOOTSLOGGING GH would otherwise take shouldnt you just keep them cheap?

syypher wrote:
If their job is to catch the fire that your FOOTSLOGGING GH would otherwise take shouldnt you just keep them cheap?

Pure or with a Combi weapon only is cheap

I think Combi + wc actually is cheap given what it gives your troop it often takes quite much to kill them and then he has his claw to tear other troop choices to pieces with.

What points level would you want to fit a well built squad of WolfGuard TERMIES (combi-on everything, with wolf claws or power fists) in a drop pod. I think it needs about 1500 points per game to the best out of the investment. However, once the squad is on the table via pod, it will almost assuredly destroy its target, and remain to cause hell amongst the left over enemy. Throw in a SS and it could be bad.

What loadouts would you guys suggest for WG terminators leading footslogging GH's without using combi weapons? I just bought the 5 man WG terminator box and just plan to use the weapons that come with the kit.

I usually run wg with combi plas if they join plas pack melta for melta pack cml for lfp and pa and pm on em or even pw. don't pay points for a pf.

I just outflank WGT with an SS or two leading the charge. Mix of weapons, rocks in melee, shoots hard, is tough to kill, outflanks with rerolls to choose which side.

How do people think about wolf scouts with snipers?

what about the combo of 4 snipers + 1 sniper with a melta as secondary weapon? if you check codex its fully legal.

now you have BS4 snipers in your cheap melta-squad which can either infiltrate to a strategic position firing at deamons and monsters or HQs or go behind enemy lines in an alpha strike but with the potential of go in from a far if no opportunity arises.

I would rather Plasma scouts to be honest.

Strength 7 is more than enough against the rear armour of 90% of vehicles in the game and 2 shots is better than 1.

Being able to kill off heavy infantry and Monsterous Creatures easily is a nice plus

Grey Hunters: Good in Rhinos. I run double weapons as needed for list comp, Wolf Standard, and Mark. This squad is can lay down some hurt in both shooting and CC. I tried the footsloggin with WG in termie armor and find that the lack of mobility killed my late game.

Land Speeders: I usually run MM/HF, I find that these tend to mess with my opponents target priority. If they shoot the Land speeder, your rhinos advance up the board, if they shoot the rhinos, you melta/flamer key targets in the enemies army.

Thunderwolf Calv: These Guys are expensive. A lord or battle leader with rune armor is almost required. But if you take a squad of these, It is almost guaranteed that your opponent will shoot them over your grey hunters. Think of them more as a delivery device for the lord on thunderwolf.

Dreadnoughts: In pods they provide good diversion, but will likely eat melta-guns, that couldn't reach your rhino's anyhow. Walking they can be good counter assault or baby-sitter for long fangs.

Long Fangs: Missile fangs are still ridiculously cheap, you won't be split firing as much anymore with the new glancing rules. Plasma cannon fangs will vaporize any infantry in the open. Really good if you twin-link them a rune priest. If you have master of the Runes and manage to get both perfect timing and prescience, you will rape anything within 36" of your position.

Other HS: Hard to take them when Long Fangs are so good. Vindi's are Decent and can be well supported by GH in rhinos.

Land Raider: I have a hard time taking LR in a Wolf List. The main point of a LR is to get a super killy unit like Hammernators into assault. Space wolves pay more than 60 points a model for hammernators. This is just too inefficient.

Lone Wolf- a Chainfist/Storm Shield one will provide good babysitting for fangs and can wreak havoc on enemy forces. If you have an empty rhino, you can get him up the field a little faster. Otherwise they are slow.

Thunderwolf cavalry can also work as cheap (no upgrade) counterunit between your hunters and your fangs (making shure what gets assaulted first dont need to fight it alone), fenrisian wolves also fill this task good, but with less power. Thunderwolves can also be used as quick lone wolves in pack of one with a PF and a storm shield, run them in pairs the same way as lone wolves.

Land raiders could still be good, bringing more las to the army or a way to field 4 PW+SB WG with a wolf priest, possibly by outflanking even. or a way to get a full size of Blood claws with/without lucas into the battle.

 Thaylen wrote:
Grey Hunters: Good in Rhinos. I run double weapons as needed for list comp, Wolf Standard, and Mark. This squad is can lay down some hurt in both shooting and CC. I tried the footsloggin with WG in termie armor and find that the lack of mobility killed my late game.

Land Speeders: I usually run MM/HF, I find that these tend to mess with my opponents target priority. If they shoot the Land speeder, your rhinos advance up the board, if they shoot the rhinos, you melta/flamer key targets in the enemies army.

Thunderwolf Calv: These Guys are expensive. A lord or battle leader with rune armor is almost required. But if you take a squad of these, It is almost guaranteed that your opponent will shoot them over your grey hunters. Think of them more as a delivery device for the lord on thunderwolf.

Dreadnoughts: In pods they provide good diversion, but will likely eat melta-guns, that couldn't reach your rhino's anyhow. Walking they can be good counter assault or baby-sitter for long fangs.

Long Fangs: Missile fangs are still ridiculously cheap, you won't be split firing as much anymore with the new glancing rules. Plasma cannon fangs will vaporize any infantry in the open. Really good if you twin-link them a rune priest. If you have master of the Runes and manage to get both perfect timing and prescience, you will rape anything within 36" of your position.

Other HS: Hard to take them when Long Fangs are so good. Vindi's are Decent and can be well supported by GH in rhinos.

Land Raider: I have a hard time taking LR in a Wolf List. The main point of a LR is to get a super killy unit like Hammernators into assault. Space wolves pay more than 60 points a model for hammernators. This is just too inefficient.

Lone Wolf- a Chainfist/Storm Shield one will provide good babysitting for fangs and can wreak havoc on enemy forces. If you have an empty rhino, you can get him up the field a little faster. Otherwise they are slow.

Twin linking the plasma cannons? Still new to SW coming from CSM (curse the new codex!) so I am definately trying to figure out how to work this army.

Rune Priests have access to divination. The primaris power is prescience, which makes a units shooting twin-linked. It allows you to Reroll both scatter and gets hot rolls on plasma cannons.

Nice! I am loving the SW and I haven't I'm still building them... Do you run Rune Priests in terminator armor? I am working on building an army and am wanting to be somewhat "on the mark" with my first build. I already have a skyshield landing pad ordered for the long fangs (and my ork lootas).

SlyasR wrote:
How do people think about wolf scouts with snipers?

what about the combo of 4 snipers + 1 sniper with a melta as secondary weapon? if you check codex its fully legal.

now you have BS4 snipers in your cheap melta-squad which can either infiltrate to a strategic position firing at deamons and monsters or HQs or go behind enemy lines in an alpha strike but with the potential of go in from a far if no opportunity arises.

This is something I have wanted to try (if you're arming with snipers then you can also take boltguns rather than bolt pistols, in case you decide to OBEL).

While not a particularly powerful unit, it seems incredibly flexible.

Compared to Vanilla scouts though I'm hesitant to field them. Hitting on 6s for precision is what you really want out of Sniper Rifles and vanilla scouts do that cheaper AND while scoring. I think you have to really consider OBEL as a possibility despite arming them sniper rifles for wolf scouts to really be worth their weight. It's a tough call. It also might be worth it to go flamer rather than meltagun and treat the unit exclusively as an anti-infantry unit due to the rules changes. Will have to work them in at some point to see how it goes.


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strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Nice! I am loving the SW and I haven't I'm still building them... Do you run Rune Priests in terminator armor? I am working on building an army and am wanting to be somewhat "on the mark" with my first build. I already have a skyshield landing pad ordered for the long fangs (and my ork lootas).

I think Rune Priests in Terminator Armor would work good with a unit of Terminator Wolf Guard... otherwise just give them Runic Armor and keep the +1A for RW/BP.

As general Wolf advice you'd hear from any Wolf player, Grey Hunters are the bread and butter of Space Wolves. You can get away with not fielding Long Fangs despite how awesome they are... but if you skimp on Grey Hunters it'll hurt.

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strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Nice! I am loving the SW and I haven't I'm still building them... Do you run Rune Priests in terminator armor? I am working on building an army and am wanting to be somewhat "on the mark" with my first build. I already have a skyshield landing pad ordered for the long fangs (and my ork lootas).

I think Rune Priests in Terminator Armor would work good with a unit of Terminator Wolf Guard... otherwise just give them Runic Armor and keep the +1A for RW/BP.

As general Wolf advice you'd hear from any Wolf player, Grey Hunters are the bread and butter of Space Wolves. You can get away with not fielding Long Fangs despite how awesome they are... but if you skimp on Grey Hunters it'll hurt.

AP3 blasts ain't that bad. Spreading out, LOS management, and a cunnin' plan on ramming a ing meltagun up that ing leman russ tanks ass for being so ing cheap for an AV14 pieplate machine of ing death bull god ing damn the bane of my ing spacewolves got part of its ing name from my ing primarch we'll see how russ like you ing are after i ing shove a meltagun up your ing ass ing leman russ tanks...


as I was saying, a cunning plan to remove AP3 pieplates is key.


Did I mention I hate leman russ tanks ?

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Nice! I am loving the SW and I haven't I'm still building them... Do you run Rune Priests in terminator armor? I am working on building an army and am wanting to be somewhat "on the mark" with my first build. I already have a skyshield landing pad ordered for the long fangs (and my ork lootas).

Runic armour if you want to sit him in a rhino or razorback

Terminator armour if you want him to stand on foot amongst his unit.

I have him in terminator with either footslogging grey hunters or drop poding grey hunters or with long fangs nowdays. it doesnt seem viable to me to have him in runic armour in a viechle anymore. Terminator armour brings the 5++ save which is so good. and its the same points as a runic.

The only downside to terminator armor that I can see (in a Killy unit) is that you will be unable to perform sweeping advances. Maybe that is why they developed the runic armor for the SW.

Another question, and this is very basic, if the rune priest is upgraded, can he use his power on two separate units? I was glancing through the divination page and it sure feels good to be reading that page on this side of things (vs the receiving end).

I also dispize LR tanks

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
The only downside to terminator armor that I can see (in a Killy unit) is that you will be unable to perform sweeping advances. Maybe that is why they developed the runic armor for the SW.

Another question, and this is very basic, if the rune priest is upgraded, can he use his power on two separate units? I was glancing through the divination page and it sure feels good to be reading that page on this side of things (vs the receiving end).

I also dispize LR tanks

sweeping advance is never any problem because all units out there are either fearless or TSKNF so you cant sweep them anyway, they just stay put. and units who arent are units like fenrisian wolves which you should kill anyway if you bring units with terminator amour.

I would assume as long as you have a master of runes and it isnt a psycic shooting attack you can target two different units, think of it like this you might have one power that targets friendly units and one power that targets enemy units, you dont want to put them on the same unit and its clear that you can choose.

In building my new army, I completely overlooked those priests (mainly because I had planned to run BA priests, but the FAQ put a stop to that!) This thread is helping already! The priests seem to be almost worth it over other un-named characters...

I know long fangs seem to be the "easy button" but what are people liking for vehicles. What seems to be the "go-to" vehicle for space wolves (besides rhinos). The whirlwind is a cool model but kinda sucks... I am all about learning this new army...

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
In building my new army, I completely overlooked those priests (mainly because I had planned to run BA priests, but the FAQ put a stop to that!) This thread is helping already! The priests seem to be almost worth it over other un-named characters...

I know long fangs seem to be the "easy button" but what are people liking for vehicles. What seems to be the "go-to" vehicle for space wolves (besides rhinos). The whirlwind is a cool model but kinda sucks... I am all about learning this new army...

Rune priests are unfortunately almost mandatory. I dont like that at all I would like to field for example a Thunderlord and a wolf priest in the same list but as it seem I also always have to field a rune priest aswell.
They are incredibly good and useful compared to the other options, I would have greeted a nerf on them actually to help the codex balance.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
In building my new army, I completely overlooked those priests (mainly because I had planned to run BA priests, but the FAQ put a stop to that!) This thread is helping already! The priests seem to be almost worth it over other un-named characters...

I know long fangs seem to be the "easy button" but what are people liking for vehicles. What seems to be the "go-to" vehicle for space wolves (besides rhinos). The whirlwind is a cool model but kinda sucks... I am all about learning this new army...

Space Wolf go to vehicle has to be Vindicator. It's so wolfy in its smashiness. Also very cheap consider how much havoc it can potentially unleash.

Whirlwinds don't suck... they are just a bit situational. You have to remember that they've gotten better in that they can snipe now. Barrage rule states that wounds are taken from center of blast rather than from the shooter. So if you have a particularly annoying Sergeant or weapons specialist you want to remove, aim your blast at them and profit as they suddenly have to take several wounds. It's a more stand offish style of play but Whirlwinds are now very effective sniper. Also it's the only ranged "ignores cover" that the Space Wolves have which shouldn't be underestimated as there are some units that can seriously abuse cover and line of sight.


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SlyasR wrote:

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
In building my new army, I completely overlooked those priests (mainly because I had planned to run BA priests, but the FAQ put a stop to that!) This thread is helping already! The priests seem to be almost worth it over other un-named characters...

I know long fangs seem to be the "easy button" but what are people liking for vehicles. What seems to be the "go-to" vehicle for space wolves (besides rhinos). The whirlwind is a cool model but kinda sucks... I am all about learning this new army...

Rune priests are unfortunately almost mandatory. I dont like that at all I would like to field for example a Thunderlord and a wolf priest in the same list but as it seem I also always have to field a rune priest aswell.
They are incredibly good and useful compared to the other options, I would have greeted a nerf on them actually to help the codex balance.

Not that it would help a Thunderlord, but you can use a Rune Priest as a buff to a regular Wolf Lord. I think this is actually a good tactic now because of the warlord rules.

derpyhooves72 wrote:

Not that it would help a Thunderlord, but you can use a Rune Priest as a buff to a regular Wolf Lord. I think this is actually a good tactic now because of the warlord rules.

the problem was not that I couldnt field a thunderlord and a rune priest, the problem was that I always feel stupid not fielding a rune priest at all (and for example take a wolf priest or only logan or what ever) since they are so good, its like shooting your own foot.

how would you suggest using a wolf lord + rune priest combo?

How spammy can you get with Rune Priests (including Njal) and still stay reasonably competitive? I'm working on a half-baked TSons/SWolves army, and since for some bizarre reason GW decided to not allow CSM and SW to ally (crazy bastards, right?) I'm working on shoving it into the SW codex. I *could* pack 4 of the things (heck, 8 at 2000 and double FOC) but I'm pretty sure that's absolutely overkill.

 Lansirill wrote:
How spammy can you get with Rune Priests (including Njal) and still stay reasonably competitive? I'm working on a half-baked TSons/SWolves army, and since for some bizarre reason GW decided to not allow CSM and SW to ally (crazy bastards, right?) I'm working on shoving it into the SW codex. I *could* pack 4 of the things (heck, 8 at 2000 and double FOC) but I'm pretty sure that's absolutely overkill.

brutal heressey

I often use Tsons torsos and helmets as base decorations for my wolves, because out of all chaos we hate those the most. And personally Im not a fan of being the opposing side of AP3 bolters either.


I would say you could easily spam 4 rune priests and then 3 units of long fangs and the rest of the points in grey hunters for 1500-1999p games and be very competitive, thats how booringly crazy good rune priests are.

The hard part about using rune priests is where do you stick them. They work great in long fang squads since you just bury them in cover alongside the heavy weapons. but if you want to support a grey hunters squad you run into trouble, if you drop to 9 man grey hunters, you lose the second special weapon. Priests are good, but I'd rather have an extra melta gun or plasma gun. Also, blessings and maledictions can't be used from inside rhinos. (You are taking rhinos, aren't you?) You have to get out and sit for a turn. The second best use for the priest would be in a LR and casting prescience on a killy assault squad. The best I've seen is just chilling with plama/missile fangs.

I like to be offensive with my RPs. Priests with JotWW work great in 8 man GH squads with a WG pack leader. 1 plasma, 1 combi-plasma and JotWW will do about as much as 1 more plasma. I often dump them behind my enemy so I can hit him without any cover. If I'm lucky I can use JotWW to snipe out special weapons and sergeants too and help force the squad to run.

Similarly, LL has gotten great at just glancing vehicles to death so synergises well with plasma or even melta.

Finally slapping divination on them, prescience cast on LFs can smash up most vehicles or if you're cheesey put him in a 30+ man blob of guard to give them 75% hit rate, counter attack and ATSKNF. Getting hit by 60 FRFSRF lasguns at 24" range and 90 at 12" is nasty, similarly making sure the plasma guns and autocannons hit is also very nasty. 60 TL shots in over-watch, followed by 60 TL melee attacks is ridiculous too.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I like to be offensive with my RPs. Priests with JotWW work great in 8 man GH squads with a WG pack leader. 1 plasma, 1 combi-plasma and JotWW will do about as much as 1 more plasma. I often dump them behind my enemy so I can hit him without any cover. If I'm lucky I can use JotWW to snipe out special weapons and sergeants too and help force the squad to run.

You raise an excellent point Griddlelol. I may have to try this out. I have an opponent who runs mass tervigons that this may destroy some big bugs.

I'm probably sticking them in drop pods along with the rest of my army, although I might stick a LF squad or two in Rhinos (mostly for cover since they would be the only dang things on the table at deployment.) As long as they're joining a squad that already has a WG leader, then the second special weapon is already lost. Of course I believe there's a huge disagreement on if a WG pack leader is worth losing the second special weapon so that only changes the discussion so much.

 Thaylen wrote:

You raise an excellent point Griddlelol. I may have to try this out. I have an opponent who runs mass tervigons that this may destroy some big bugs.

It's gross against Necrons and Guard. Low initiatives get eaten up. Probably works against Orks, but they seem to be lacking in my local meta.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Thaylen wrote:

You raise an excellent point Griddlelol. I may have to try this out. I have an opponent who runs mass tervigons that this may destroy some big bugs.

It's gross against Necrons and Guard. Low initiatives get eaten up. Probably works against Orks, but they seem to be lacking in my local meta.

I thought it would be great against necrons, until i learned they only resurrect again

That's the great thing. If you drop pod in, you get to shoot the Lord with AP2 and then bolter fire the rest. Far more likely to break and run stopping them from clawing their way back up.

This also works well since if you've knocked the lord down, that squad is a better target for focus fire from anything else.

Finally, JotWW causes the models to be "removed from play" so no getting back up.

hmm, I am sure I have read the different somewhere but cant find it now

if we have played it wrong and its as you say, they are removed permanently then jaws is very very good again. almost mandatory for facing necrons

For JOTWW remember that if a power affects multiple units only the first unit affected can make a deny the witch test. So if you want to aim jaws at a tervigon, try to hit some gaunts first as the Tervigon can make deny the witch on a 5+.

On deny the witch I am annoyed that they lumped rune weapon in with deny the witch, it is not close to the same mechanic. Deny only works on powers that target my units, Rune weapons can work on blessings and powers with no target. /Rant.

What are the thoughts on drop pods? Again, I am building an army and they seem to be a quick way to make it up the field to grab objectives right away. With mysterious objectives, the possibility of grabing a skyfire objective would be nice to have going into turn 2 when flyers come on... Just a possibilty... Also, putting a deathwind launcher in them seems to be a nice way to help protect objectives.

Upgrading a RP to master of runes, worth it? Taking multiple priests, the points seem like they would be better spent elsewhere... just curious...

Pods are good for rakhi game placement plus alpha strike capability. But suffer from a lack of late game objective grabbing capability.

Master of runes is hard for me to place. For 50 more points I can get a whole nother priest, and 2 more rolls on the divination table. The primaris for divination us good but the only other powers that are really worth it are misfortune, which us hard to use while in long fang.due to range, and perfect timing, but it only comes up maybe 1 in 3 games or so. The.way I see it, Master of Rune is a gamble, on getting perfect timing so you can twinlink and ignores cover on some plasma or missile fangs.

That is exactly why I was wondering... Twin linked and ignores over would be pretty hard hitting.

I have only played against drop pods and they tend to be more of a thorn in your side rather than a threat. Just looking at finding a good mix between rhinos and pods.

I run one with tda he usually does pretty well. its nice because he gets an invul.


i run mine with the stave so he's str6 and things are usually good. His budy has a force sword and stuff dies.

over watch with plasma at bs is rather awesome.

I wouldn't mind craming a few mm hf speeders into the list but 1250 is kinda small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As said the upgrade is a gamble but when you shoot things that need cover is when it gets rough.

Against non meqs twnl hb with ignore cover can erase units. don't count out the trusty hb.

okay, just read everything since I last posted... a few things I thought I'd add:

Re GH in less than 10 and the extra weapon: Anytime you take less than ten and only get the one weapon, you may as well attach the WG leader, and give it a combi of some sort, depending on what you want the unit to do. If you go 8 strong, 1 WGPL with combimelta and a PF, AND a stormcaller/JWOW priest with a plasma pistol in a pod, lord help any of your opponents when they get to that tender back side of a russ. I think people misunderstand pods.... I think that they serve two main purposes, an alpha strike if you have enough of them (4 pods dropping full of guys on turn 1, when you have seven total can be VERY problematic.), and as distractors/late game objective grabbers with post assault, reserve based pods. In some cases, if you are really hurting for an objective against an army without a great deal of useful CC troops, dropping a turn 3 pod near an objective, then hammering the hell out of the objective holders on the charge will either loosen them from it (un-commissarred guard, etc.), but you have to be specifically tooling the unit to have that effect.... (plasma up the wazoo for Meq, and or dual flamers with combi flamer for the cover camping units like guard, tau, and eldar rangers.). This, in my opinion is a good strategy, especially in higher point games, where you may have more than 6 troop choices, and want to try a quick tabling of the opponent by leadership elimination (JWOW at a necron lord in a group of necron warrionrs managed to remove from play 12 dudes and one special character that cost a LOT more than the 120 pt rune priest that did hte dirty there.





RE: Scouts. I like them for both sniping against high toughness targets, or just for pinning. being BS 4, AND getting precision shot on a 6, I've got to say that there is a great deal they can do in a forward position, or even outflanked, especially since we can snap fire shots even if we moved. Its also been my experience that these units, especially if you taylor your list to an opponent for a game, can cause hell on a low leadership list.... even without the issue of the guns, I think the snipers will drawn an inordinate amount of fire, especially if you can take out or seriously wound one good model on the opponent side.....you are down 90-115, he's down 100-200 depending on what it was.... AFAIC that's a pretty reasonable trade, especially if they spend the turn after you iced his dude trying to make kibble out of them.

I like meltacide scouts squads, but only where I'm playing guard or tau.... the scouts can still fight, and locking them into combat will keep the other dude's units unable to shoot, order, etc. or do whatever else they may otherwise do... again, small investment, great reward in my opinion.

Re vehicles... sigh, I WISH we had a nonforge world flier...... like a storm talon... to harrass the hell out of our opponent and take advantage of the fly rules.... but we dont.... so, I make due with three units that usually dont get much love given their base unit being a blood claw: swift bikers, skyclaws, and the more loved, but paper thin land speeder.

Flying skyclaws are great because they, like the lone wolf, are essentially a fire and forget powerfist delivery system.
Re Blood claws, though they do have lower stats, my favorite move is putting them in a crusader with a priest and a lukas upgrade and gun that sucker forward as fast as possible, machine spiriting a gun a turn the whole way. It's my experience that one of the following will happen:

your opponent will aim EVERYTHING at the steel grey grey/blue (pick your fancy) armored jitneybus, or it will try to deflect/absorb the unit in a place where he wont really suffer a lot of damage to hold that NASTY charge up. If they die... well, they probably took some points back with them, and if they didnt, your other units should be moving up as fast as possible while they are playing "lets eat the axe."

I've had a LOT of luck with squadroned speeders, dropping in as close as I dare to a vehicle lot and lighting up the most expensive thing (in one apoc game, my two units of three took out a baneblade and a gargant, (this was fifth edition though), and I felt they made their points up handsomely.

Thats just my thoughts though.

 cowpow16 wrote:
I run one with tda he usually does pretty well. its nice because he gets an invul.


i run mine with the stave so he's str6 and things are usually good. His budy has a force sword and stuff dies.

Wroooong, ordinary rune priests cant carry anything else than their unusual force weapon. Only njal has a straff the rest has a I4 S4 AP3 force

 Monasou wrote:

-Wolf Priests! Yes! They Exist! Transporting around the map will be ever so easier now with the ever so popular outflank ability from Saga Of the Hunter, SOTH!

This is a mathhammer post to show wolf priests vs rune priests.
The Short and Sweet
Wolf priests are better at increasing the shooting capability than rune priests are vs infantry. Rune priests can make a squad better in assault than a wolf priest. This is because the wolf priest grants rerolls of 1's on 'to hit' and 'to wound'.

Wolf priests bring a variety of buffs, such as stealth and outflank which can help a squad greatly. Wolf priests cannot have their buff stopped,
Rune priests let the squad block psychic powers extremely well, and get an additional power on the divination table. Rune priest's buffs work on all opponents, not just the PE target.

Both are excellent force multipliers to a squad. Their ability to improve the effect is nearly identical. Which you use is up to you.

Shooting
A bolter shot by a wolf priest has on MEQ has...
77.72% to hit * 58.30% to wound * 33.33% failed save = 15.1% chance to kill

A bolter shot from a rune priest on MEQ has....
89% to hit * 50.00% to wound * 33.33% failed save = 14.8% chance to kill

A PG shot by a wolf priest has on MEQ has...
77.72% to hit * 97.2% to wound = 75.5% chance to kill

A PG shot from a rune priest on MEQ has....
89% to hit * 83.3% to wound = 73.9% chance to kill


Assault
In assault, the rune priest edges out. This is because the wolves go from hitting 2/3 of the time to 1/3 of the time.

A normal attack from a wolf priest squad has on MEQ has...
58.30% to hit * 58.30% to wound * 33.33% failed save = 11.2% chance to kill

A normal attack from a rune priest squad has on MEQ has...
75.00% to hit * 50.00% to wound * 33.33% failed save = 12.3% chance to kill

Really now right because of special rules. so does this mean if i have a guy with a stave that it still counts as a sword or what's the deal?

Under runic weapons it says may take the form of axes and staffs? so that means if he has an ax or staff that it counts as his str and ap3 ?

 cowpow16 wrote:
Really now right because of special rules. so does this mean if i have a guy with a stave that it still counts as a sword or what's the deal?

Under runic weapons it says may take the form of axes and staffs? so that means if he has an ax or staff that it counts as his str and ap3 ?

Yes this has been discussed countless times, all force weapons which has its own special rule counts as an unusual weapon. The exception is njal who got faqed

reps0l wrote:

 derpyhooves72 wrote:

syypher wrote:
What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

Aegis Defense Line

Not much you can do. 5+ is a lot even for a quad gun. Just play the mission and use your positioning well.

I usually just bitch about being forced to buy some crappy model I never wanted by a new rulebook, cast around wild assertions about the virtue of my opponents mother, and then rip my codex in half with my teeth before making my exit out of the nearest available window.

I keep hearing that SW is better than Codex SM and BA as far as the non-GK/CSM MEQ armies. However, is the only way (from within your own codex and not allies) to deal with flyers Aegis Defense Line and spamming bodies? In a competitive scene where I know I'll be seeing some lists with 5+ flyers it's going to be an uphill battle...

Spamming bodies is pretty good to do especially because GH's are really good and scoring...just unsure if I want to play that many guys on foot -_- Always been more of a mech player.


Also for vehicle spamming, do you guys normally take 8-10GH in a Rhino? or go 5-6+0-1 WG in a RB? Been thinking about this and am leaning towards the Rhino and no WG's...but would I be really suffering much w/o my WG in there to absorb challenges and better LD?

syypher wrote:
I keep hearing that SW is better than Codex SM and BA as far as the non-GK/CSM MEQ armies. However, is the only way (from within your own codex and not allies) to deal with flyers Aegis Defense Line and spamming bodies? In a competitive scene where I know I'll be seeing some lists with 5+ flyers it's going to be an uphill battle...

Spamming bodies is pretty good to do especially because GH's are really good and scoring...just unsure if I want to play that many guys on foot -_- Always been more of a mech player.


Also for vehicle spamming, do you guys normally take 8-10GH in a Rhino? or go 5-6+0-1 WG in a RB? Been thinking about this and am leaning towards the Rhino and no WG's...but would I be really suffering much w/o my WG in there to absorb challenges and better LD?

I find that extra LD from the WG is really important. I usually take 9 in a squad, with Rhino, with MotW, Standard, and plasma/melta depending on how I'm feeling that day. If you don't want the WG, you can have two special weapons, and a powerfist for 5pts more. It's tricky. You're basically paying 3 points for a extra attack and an extra point of LD, which is really very cheap for what you stand to gain. I always find that more useful then slightly more dakka.

syypher wrote:
I keep hearing that SW is better than Codex SM and BA as far as the non-GK/CSM MEQ armies. However, is the only way (from within your own codex and not allies) to deal with flyers Aegis Defense Line and spamming bodies? In a competitive scene where I know I'll be seeing some lists with 5+ flyers it's going to be an uphill battle...

Spamming bodies is pretty good to do especially because GH's are really good and scoring...just unsure if I want to play that many guys on foot -_- Always been more of a mech player.


Also for vehicle spamming, do you guys normally take 8-10GH in a Rhino? or go 5-6+0-1 WG in a RB? Been thinking about this and am leaning towards the Rhino and no WG's...but would I be really suffering much w/o my WG in there to absorb challenges and better LD?

Spamming bodies may not be the way to go, as exhibit A might decline you from hoofing it:



Whenever I fail a pinning check, it always feels like 10-12 is what I roll. What you get out of a WG is minimal when you can take a 10pt gun for free. Mount them in Rhinos expecting them to die Turn 1 and use the 12" / 18" first turn to start the ball rolling.

Thekbob by your logic i would rather Drop pod my units 12-18 inch in, hogging mid and advance because thats the exact same start ad having rhinos then. Only difference is that with Drop pods you get the possibility of alpha strike and different alpint of aggressiveness depending on opponent. And you probably dont Lose first blood.

 TheKbob wrote:

Spamming bodies may not be the way to go, as exhibit A might decline you from hoofing it:

Eurgh. This thing is a joke when I play IG, but as soon as my SW come out the box, I cry when I see it. I've actually considered taking blood claws just so I can jump into combat and ignore this thing, but it still means LFs die in swathes.

With rerolls and 5 ml your chances arnt bad if you take 2 lfp you could potentially shoot down 4 flyers. add a quad gun and you potential flyer kill is 5.

I'm not too scared of that Chaos dragon... all you need to do is get a weapon destroyed on it and it will not bother you except for a couple of turns where it may be able to vector strike, but it will have to line them up first...

What is everyone's favorite character/HQ? I watched a friend of mine play his SW this weekend... and it seems (in a 2000 point game) Arjac is an auto-include... at least I was very impressed...

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I'm not too scared of that Chaos dragon... all you need to do is get a weapon destroyed on it

Man you make rolling 6s followed by (ML) 5+ or (LC) 4+, your opponent proceeding to fail a 5+, then getting a single result out of the penetrating hits table easy.
It's almost like you got lucky once and it skewed your impression of how easily these can take out your long fangs, which are pretty much its only threat.

The chances of getting a weapon destroyed result on it are the same chances of causing it to explode. Wouldn't sound so easy if you said "all you need to do is blow it up in one shot."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cowpow16 wrote:
With rerolls and 5 ml your chances arnt bad if you take 2 lfp you could potentially shoot down 4 flyers. add a quad gun and you potential flyer kill is 5.

Lets work this out shall we? All results rounded up.

10 ml hitting on 6s: 2 hit
8 ml rerolls on 6s: 1 hit. Net: 3 hits

Hull point removals on 4+: 2 HPs (ignoring pen results since it over complicates it)

5+ Invulnerable: 1 save from 2 HP removing hits.

So 480 points (2 LFPs, 2 RPs with divination) nets you on average (with rounding up) one hull point per turn off a 175pt flier. If I were the chaos player, I'd be begging you to do that.

I'm not known for my incredible skill in mathematics, so if I've done something wrong, please tell me

I'm not worried about the Chaos flyer as I intend to run a skyshield landing pad.... I know, but it seems like it will work perfectly. I would also dedicate lascannons to taking it down, the +1 to the damage chart would be nice.... Hopefully by the end of October, I will be able to finally field my SW army. Unfortunately, those in my gaming group will also be amassing new armies...

Pen doesn't really make it more complicated.
Initial Volley: 1.5 Misses, 1 Pen, 0.5 Glances
Invuln: 0.83 Pens, 0.42 Glances
Roll to Wreck/Splode: 0.28

So with 10 TL/ML you have ~2.8% of wrecking/sploding, and ~12.5% of taking out a single HP.

 Blaggard wrote:
Pen doesn't really make it more complicated.
Initial Volley: 1.5 Misses, 1 Pen, 0.5 Glances
Invuln: 0.83 Pens, 0.42 Glances
Roll to Wreck/Splode: 0.28

So with 10 TL/ML you have ~2.8% of wrecking/sploding, and ~12.5% of taking out a single HP.

Thank you for clearing up my math Blaggard. Again, this is drastically in the favour of the flier. Add in lascannons and the points ratio becomes even worse considering you can take 2.5 MLs for each LC. The key to taking down fliers isn't that lucky pen, it's glancing them to death. It's pretty sad, but I believe the 50pt Quadcannon has a better chance to strip HPs off than 5 ML long fangs with a Divination bitch.

Well, it also has It Will Not Die! so there's a chance that they'll then just recoup that HP. Nothing apart from taking a ADL w/ QG in the SW codex i can think off can reliably take it out.

 Blaggard wrote:
Well, it also has It Will Not Die! so there's a chance that they'll then just recoup that HP. Nothing apart from taking a ADL w/ QG in the SW codex i can think off can reliably take it out.

Hmmm... Maybe some MM shots... Something that will take it down quick or at least dissuade it from coming near, but in the end.... who knows... The ADL will fall to its flamer/no cover saves...

Take a bastion w/ QG? 25 points more, but then you can stick a guy up top to try and get him, with the LF inside.

I have been having significantly more luck against flyers.

One game it took 2 ml to take out a dakka jet and 2 melta guns to fry a storm talon.
So that's been my extent of flyers.

I prefer the Icarus over the quadgun. A Divination Priest with Chooser hits on a re-rollable 2+ with a very good change of doing significant damage. The quadgun often dooes nor more than a single glance vs. av12 flyers. In addition, the icarus also helps vs. Av13/14 tanks against those we usualy have to rely on melters,

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
Well, it also has It Will Not Die! so there's a chance that they'll then just recoup that HP. Nothing apart from taking a ADL w/ QG in the SW codex i can think off can reliably take it out.

Hmmm... Maybe some MM shots... Something that will take it down quick or at least dissuade it from coming near, but in the end.... who knows... The ADL will fall to its flamer/no cover saves...

I run 2-4 fliers in my regular ig lists. Multimeltas don't scare fliers. I find that I use them very aggressively since my opponent has to get rather lucky to do anything. I always have evasive manoeuvres too. The only time I pay defensively is when there are other fliers on the table. I just think space wolves really don't have an option other than to ignore the flier. Yeah you can get lucky and it's worth a try if there are no other targets around, but the math says don't bother.

 Griddlelol wrote:


I run 2-4 fliers in my regular ig lists. Multimeltas don't scare fliers. I find that I use them very aggressively since my opponent has to get rather lucky to do anything. I always have evasive manoeuvres too. The only time I pay defensively is when there are other fliers on the table. I just think space wolves really don't have an option other than to ignore the flier. Yeah you can get lucky and it's worth a try if there are no other targets around, but the math says don't bother.

I agree, the air is of no business to space wolves. We excel in so much out there, arguably has on of the best codexes in the game and people are complaining about the one and only thing we cant do perfect.
If you have nothing else to shoot at or if you need to walk with your heavy weaponry the go and shoot a flier just for fun like you could buy a lottery ticket at the supermarket. in other circumstances I would rather focus on killing all their troops and spread my own to make sure Im the only one with living troops to hold objectives in the end.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on blood claws. The 15 man blob with a wg and maybe an ic on top sounds scary on paper. I've never really had good experiences with blood claws but that was mainly in 5th when the codex had just come out. The ws3 seems to limit their targets although not drastically since there aren't many groups of models with ws5 or more.

I've had good luck with swiftclaw bikers. The changes 6th ed made to bikes makes them excellent platforms to assault from.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I've had good luck with swiftclaw bikers. The changes 6th ed made to bikes makes them excellent platforms to assault from.

I'd not considered bikes. It might not be an awful plan. They can add to the amount of things in my opponents face on turn one if I'm using drop pods but also get a sweet cover save. By turn two they can be in combat. Do you take a wg pack leader on a bike with them? 54pts for a naked leader seems extortionate.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on blood claws. The 15 man blob with a wg and maybe an ic on top sounds scary on paper. I've never really had good experiences with blood claws but that was mainly in 5th when the codex had just come out. The ws3 seems to limit their targets although not drastically since there aren't many groups of models with ws5 or more.

Looks scary, but its about as usefully as a bigger target. Only thing it does better it get shot more, less target saturation, and to make this unit usefull you have to sink in more points, plus if they lose their character they are boned because of the 12 inch rule of too stupid in the tooth to think properly. for about 2 units of bloods claws you have 3 units of grey hunters who with completely out shine them.

In my honest opinion and person use of them just a big hit me sign, fun to use and thats just about it.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
I've had good luck with swiftclaw bikers. The changes 6th ed made to bikes makes them excellent platforms to assault from.

I'd not considered bikes. It might not be an awful plan. They can add to the amount of things in my opponents face on turn one if I'm using drop pods but also get a sweet cover save. By turn two they can be in combat. Do you take a wg pack leader on a bike with them? 54pts for a naked leader seems extortionate.

cavalry does it better


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey elder wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on blood claws. The 15 man blob with a wg and maybe an ic on top sounds scary on paper. I've never really had good experiences with blood claws but that was mainly in 5th when the codex had just come out. The ws3 seems to limit their targets although not drastically since there aren't many groups of models with ws5 or more.

Looks scary, but its about as usefully as a bigger target. Only thing it does better it get shot more, less target saturation, and to make this unit usefull you have to sink in more points, plus if they lose their character they are boned because of the 12 inch rule of too stupid in the tooth to think properly. for about 2 units of bloods claws you have 3 units of grey hunters who with completely out shine them.

In my honest opinion and person use of them just a big hit me sign, fun to use and thats just about it.

Im starting to agree, I really wanted claws to be good, but theyre hopeless in comparison, damn our amazing grey hunters

SlyasR wrote:
cavalry does it better

Do they? They are most costly, no cover save and slower. They do on the other hand hit much harder.

I have urge to test out three full max wolf (beast) squads of 15, they seem they actually have a decent pourpose fo walking list, cheap effective first wave that grants cover.
Peoples thoughts?

syypher wrote:
What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

Allied IG, Aegis Line, Hyperios Platforms, etc.

 Grey elder wrote:
I have urge to test out three full max wolf (beast) squads of 15, they seem they actually have a decent pourpose fo walking list, cheap effective first wave that grants cover.
Peoples thoughts?

I do this with 2 ten-wolf units sometimes. the reason I dont stack 15 is because Im bad at maneuvering them and they tend to form a long tail as soon as you are going past the first kind of terrain you stumble upon.

but if you can make it work with 15 it would be even better. its perfect for taking down hiding heavy support infantry (remember that these bad boys can climb on charge so they can attack people on the floors above easily).

beware of charging things like purgation squads with psycannons or 20 necron warriors, they die directly and wont make it into combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

SlyasR wrote:
cavalry does it better

Do they? They are most costly, no cover save and slower. They do on the other hand hit much harder.

thunderwolf pro

gets more attacks, hits better
are harder to hit
S10-fists
rending for the rest of them
2 wounds so you wont lose an actual model giving many attacks in the first while

bike pro

can turbo boost so yeah they are quicker
quicker + their dodge save makes them survivable outside of battle
cheaper

I think its an even game until the thunderwolves bring it home with around the double amount of powerfist attacks, they are slapping around dreadknights deamons and everything with that.

Yeah with all the nurgle around in my local meta, the str:10 is just gravy.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'd not considered bikes. It might not be an awful plan. They can add to the amount of things in my opponents face on turn one if I'm using drop pods but also get a sweet cover save. By turn two they can be in combat. Do you take a wg pack leader on a bike with them? 54pts for a naked leader seems extortionate.

If your going to fork out 54 points, go and get a rune/wolf priest to lead em.
The priest makes their hand to hand attacks much more deadly.

What are people thinking for flyers for SW? Looks like FW is the only option... The caestus assault ram looks kinda like it would fit with a SW army. AV 13 flyer would be cool as well as a transport. The only real drawback is the real world $$$ cost lol

I think SW players just have to accept that they're going to get beaten by flyer spam. That, or take guard allies. I don't think having a hard counter is that much of a big deal, and eventually I bet we'll see flakk missile upgrades for long-fangs.

re flyers:

you do not NEED to have a flyer in game. Its a great boon to have a vendetta or three on your side, but remember, at AV 12, they can still get 1 shotted and then where are your points? I think the idea that "we have to accept we are going to sometime lose against flyers" is akin to saying "we are occasionally going to lose to an army with a unit we dont have." That's great. I don't have carnifexes, greater demons, or dreadknights. that doesn't mean that I have an unabashed need for them.

AFAIAC, not having a flyer in the fast attack section isn't necessarily an autolose. You can take an aegis if you really want it, or just do what I've done my past three games and try your luck on a 6 man lascannon squad. All it takes is 1 good shot and that flyer is scrap and chickenfeed. Last game I played this weekend, Apoc, I took a large number of longfang squads, no fortifications. I camped in some ruins, and managed to drop three helltalons without taking any significant damage in return. I am of the mind that if you focus fire, the flyer will hit the deck, and that will be that.

Moving on: I think that organizing our charges in priority order are a good idea. I had the dubious misfortune of charging blood claws AND thunderwolves at the same unit of chaos marines, his fire took out the thunderwolves.... I should have engaged with the claws first, then support charged with the thunderwolves, saving them from eating melta and bolters to death.


Re "Ton of dead marines" template. if you get close enough that they cannot just hit your guys with that template, I do not believe they can use it. Drop pod into their mouth, stand on their molars, and kick them in the throat, kids.

resipsa wrote:
That's great. I don't have carnifexes, greater demons, or dreadknights. that doesn't mean that I have an unabashed need for them.

Terrible logic. Firstly no one is saying you need flyers to win. Secondly, fliers don't have a counter other than AAA or AA from your own fliers. MCs do have counters. In fact there are plenty I can think of off the top of my head. However, to kill a flier, you either need a) luck b) massed fire-power or c) dedicated anti-air from aforementioned AAA or fliers.

You can take an aegis if you really want it, or just do what I've done my past three games and try your luck on a 6 man lascannon squad. All it takes is 1 good shot and that flyer is scrap and chickenfeed. *snip anecdotal evidence*

I'm glad to see you're getting lucky and that investing huge amount of points to take down max of 1 flier per turn seems worth it. The problem is, your argument of "If you kill it, it's terrible lol" works for every unit. If you kill tanks they're useless, if you kill MCs they're useless, if you kill infantry they're useless. All it takes is one good pie-plate and those long fangs are chickenfeed. The sad thing is, those 6 LC LFs cost a lot more than your spammable Vendetta.

Fliers are harder to kill and so are a better points investment because they're more durable. Yes taking a quad-gun might strip a couple of points off a vendetta or doomsythe but is easily avoided by terrain, and it's more than possible to kill it before the flier even enters play. Although I've never bothered, it's so rare that a quad-gun can kill any of my vendettas with interceptor.

Re "Ton of dead marines" template. if you get close enough that they cannot just hit your guys with that template, I do not believe they can use it. Drop pod into their mouth, stand on their molars, and kick them in the throat, kids.

Except all fliers have deep strike. Drop podding in their lines doesn't help you when the flier can just enter play wherever it wants.

Rabble rabble!!!!

If a flyer deep strikes... doesn't it have to be in hover mode? Otherwise it has to come on zooming... I am setting my SW army up to get in their face and control the "mid field" not sit in the back... I have some long fangs, sure, but I am not going to put all of my points into them when there are so many great units that can serve purposes else where... flyers are kind of like misquitoes (lascannon vendettas anyways) if you don't have any meaty vehicles for them to shoot... Now the punisher vendettas might be a problem...

Seems to me though, that if I am going to build an army that does not have a flyer, it will need to be good at what it does: Own the ground... if an opponent is sinking points (400-500) into flyers, that gives me an advantage on the ground... and I will just have to wait for the flyers to go into hover mode to take them down...

strengthofthedragon2 482594 5052271 wrote: if you don't have any meaty vehicles for them to shoot... Now the punisher vendettas might be a problem...

This is pretty much how SW are getting around the problem...until you come across heldrakes with the baleflamer. Those things will chew through your MEQ with ease. The Vultures (punisher cannon fliers) aren't that fantastic at killing MEQ - you're looking at around 4 kills per turn, which isn't great for the 155pt investment. Especially if you compare it to a LR for example.

The main worry about Vendettas is the transport capacity. There's probably 10 vets in there with special weapons waiting to clear you off your home objective and stroll onto it by turn 5.

Own the ground... if an opponent is sinking points (400-500) into flyers, that gives me an advantage on the ground

Except to have 3 fliers, you don't need to pay more than 390 pts in guard. The point about dominating the ground is a good one though. It's how my SW are winning. The tactics haven't changed a lot imo, except now I get closer to Chaos players to try and avoid the baleflamer.

So... SW terminators cannot deep strike?! Just stumbled upon this information... So drop pods full of terminators (well, 5 in each)?

Ignore previous post... Had a noob moment lol So, I played my first game with SW this weekend and all I can say is .... Wow.... I ran 5 drop pods and I think I am addicted to drop pods lol One question I have though, what are people's experience with foot slogging terminators in a SW army. Since they can't deepstrike, I noticed putting 5 each in a drop pods wasn't quite as effective as I had hoped. They held their own, but did not smash things up as much as I would have liked. I do have to say that with drop pods and long fangs in the rear, I kept the fight on the opponents side of the board the whole game!

...what are people's experience with foot slogging terminators in a SW army. Since they can't deepstrike, I noticed putting 5 each in a drop pods wasn't quite as effective as I had hoped.They held their own, but did not smash things up as much as I would have liked.

I was just thinking about the same thing, and maybe an allied SM librarian with Gate of Infinity would be viable for quasi deep striking a bigger Termi-Squad Turn 1. They could hide outside of LOS in case your enemy seizes the initiative.

 Malthor wrote:

...what are people's experience with foot slogging terminators in a SW army. Since they can't deepstrike, I noticed putting 5 each in a drop pods wasn't quite as effective as I had hoped.They held their own, but did not smash things up as much as I would have liked.

I was just thinking about the same thing, and maybe an allied SM librarian with Gate of Infinity would be viable for quasi deep striking a bigger Termi-Squad Turn 1. They could hide outside of LOS in case your enemy seizes the initiative.

I will look into this psychic power you speak of....

On another note, do others take the deathwind launcher on pods? I took it on all of my pods and they didn't seem to make their points back (I also forgot to fire them all during a turn ), but I did get a couple CSM Sonic marines with them so maybe.... I think they are a good psych-weapon, placing 7 large blast templates on an opponent each round (even though you can take saves) kinda messes with your mind. I think they will be much more useful against IG with low armor/cover saves.

The gate of infinity psychic power seems like the perfect way to get a large mass of termies across the table quickly and safely...

Thank goodness there is a thread like this. I have been looking for one to fine tune my army list and get better opinions than what I have in mind.

Hey guys. Is it alright if I could get some input on my army list? It is in another thread, but I do run a footslogging SW army with mass razors.

Care to give it a look please?

Thread could be found here. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/495264.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my contribution to this thread.

In case of flyers, SW need transports. Not to ride in, but to hide on the side. Rhinos or Razors are tall enough to cover the wolves from LOS. BUT... they need to be very close, like one inch or less close, so they will be in danger of explosion results if the transports get blown up in their faces. I still think it is worth it.

Flyers have to be near them and many of the times I have played against flyers, they tend to zoom over the transports due to the 18 inch movement rule flyers have when zooming. Sometimes they be in meltagun range.


Another idea I would contribute is the usage of Skyclaws. Don't use them to initiate assault. Use them to bolster Grey Hunters that are already assaulted by the enemy and already in H2H. Avoid assualting first with them.

For two full squads with a power weapon each, it is around 390 points. How you should run them is by assualting the same target with both squads and walk them. Use the jump packs if need be in movement, but I discourage that. Use them when situation demands, but save them to be used in assault. You need that reroll in case you fail to get in assualt range.

What you get for one squad are these. (Using Jump pack)
Attacks: Base (1) + CCW (1) + Berserk Charge (2) + Hammer of the Wrath (1)= 5 attacks per model

For 10 men, you have 36 normal attacks and 4 power weapon attacks. With hammer of the wrath, it is already 10 (follow base strength) S4 AP- auto hits.

Tag team them on the same target, you have 72 normal attacks, 8 power weapon attacks and hammer of the wrath 20 attacks= that is 100 attacks on the charge with jump pack on assualt phase if you footslog the Skyclaws on movement phase. All for 390 points.

If you feel evil and daring, give a Skyclaw a power fist. 3 power fist attack on the charge, but I think it is a waste of points.

Cheaper than your avarage Vanilla Marines terminator squad and you have 20 wounds avaliable as a bonus.

Against MCs, use krak grenades. Tag team on it and you have 20 S6 AP4 attacks. See the that lone carnifex cry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When I read through the thread, I say Razorbacks ate better than Rhinos. Although it is a 6 space transport, pay the 40 points to get the TLHB. Use the Razors or Rhinos as LOS blockers. Even in death, they could also block LOS to your units and them survive longer to better position themselves for assualt or just get close to rapid fire range.

Propitious for me as well -

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/495004.page

I just traded all my excess CSM for a decent sized SW list. I feel there are a few keys to making the list work. I wa\nted to alpha strike a drop pod list but there are issues with null deployment in 6ed - ICs count against your reserves. So I am dropping empty pods to compensate. It's not terrible as they are cover for my troops if needed. I've no experience playing with SW but plenty playing against them. Thee are no answers for AA - it really is that simple. Above 1500 you need to add allies - preferably IG to make it work.

My observations so far is that WG are key in squads, Logan is a beast and rune priests with divination are really good. I have been iusing MotR - I'm not convinced it is best but I'm running with it for now. I can see doubling up the priests though instead (I just don't have the extra yet.)

Back to WG - I have been using only two configurations
Power Axe/Combi-plasma in GH squads
Cyclone for LG .

great to see that this thread has come alive again.

@ wallacethe5

I do the same thing you describe with sky claws only I use fenrisian wolves. not the same punch because they lack the special weapon and has less amount of attacks but they are sooooo cheap.

SW in drop pods shouldn't need transports to negate flyers as they will usually (or should be) close enough to the enemy after turn 1 so they flyers will just pass over them. And if, for some reason, they want to hover and turn around, they will be exposing rear armor to all the long fangs in the rear. I have only played a few games with drop pods so far, but I am addicted now... depending on what army you are playing against, transports aren't really "protecting" you... comparing the two, now having played both, I completely understand why people have referred to rhinos as "coffins". Plus, with the addition of first blood, they become a liability for victory points.

Looking into the gate of infinity, seems to be the best way to move 10 WG termies with Logan and (maybe) a rune priest (with divination) 24 inches across the table turn 1. That move paired with 3-4 drop pods raining down (confronting enemies or taking objectives) is a great way to circumvent transports. A SM Libby could "ferry" troops across the battle field. Thank you again Malthor for bringing that power to my attention! (Not to mention saving me $100's in buying transport vehicle models!)

Looking into the gate of infinity, seems to be the best way to move 10 WG termies with Logan and (maybe) a rune priest (with divination) 24 inches across the table turn 1.

The problem I see with that approach is I'm taking SM as allies when I really want to be taking IG.

3-4 drop pods raining down (confronting enemies or taking objectives) is a great way to circumvent transports.

This has been my idea as well.. I will test five drop pods but two arrive empty from reserves after turn one. Allows me to alpha strike three pods. I'll see how that goes.

One thing I have noticed is SW cannot take locator beacons on their drop pods... I have yet to see if C:SM can take them, but BA can.... Sending in allied pods with beacons sets the stage for the rest of the assault... as well as bringing in twin MM landspeeders from deepstrike right where you (hopefully) want them... Locator beacon with gate of infinity (not wanting to open a can of worms) can be used to eliminate the scatter for Logan and his crew... I really just would ilke allies to assist with mobility/drop pod placement... I also have been playing with a Lucius pattern drop pod (the rules not the pod lol) and it can take a locator beacon and launch a dread assault to keep the enemy busy/preoccupied.

My favorite SW tactics of 6th include the following(Granted I've only had with SW since 6th ) 1 is serious, 2 is just for fun games.

1) Wolf Guard Gunslingers: At a total of 38 Points per model you can field Wolf Guard with double Plasma Pistols. Stick a Wolf Priest or Logan with them an you have the equivalent of a 12", S7/AP2, Assault 2 Weapon that counts as two CCW for the extra attack in assault. At low points I run a

1x Wolf Priest w/ Meltabombs(110)
5x Wolf Guard w/ 10x Plasma Pistol, Drop Pod (225)

combo and at high points I fill out to

1x Wolf Priest w/ Plasma Pistol, Meltabombs (115)
1x Wolf Priest w/ Plasma Pistol, Meltabombs, Saga of the Beast Slayer(125)
9x Wolf Guard w/ 18x Plasma Pistol, Drop Pod (377)
9x Wolf Guard w/ 18x Plasma Pistol, Drop Pod (377)

These squads can and will 99% of the time annihilate any squad you drop near. I mean who can survive 18 near guaranteed plasma shots?
Drop the Pod and swap in another Wolf Guard for 3 more points for slogging.

2) Termie Wolfguard Droppods: 100% Drop Pod Termie Army. No fear of mishaps, free first turn by always opting to go second. Be sure to place terrain against your opponent in the beginning (ie as far as possible and to the sides of the deployment zone or place a really tiny one). Not possible at 500 points. More efficient as the point total rises. You can also have 1 unit outflank in a Land Raider with the rest in drop pods to achieve the same result.

I'm not sold on a wolf guard with 20 points spent for 2 plasma shots. Combi plasma would save some serious points here at the expense of a second round of plasma shooting. Granted it's a novel idea, and a band of gunslinger wolf guard win the rule of cool when modeled up.

As an aside you pointed out the 9 man squads the same as your 5 man, which may confuse some.

I was hoping the break in between that stated estimated point totals for your army between the two would clear things up. And whether it's worth it comes down to this: Whats more effective. 20 Points for 2 sustainable Plasma Shots or 15 Points for a Power Weapon and a 1 time plasma Shot (20 points if you go for TDA)? Sure a Power Weapon = Win in 90% of Assault Phases but how much of an assault phase will there be after the enemy eats roughly 10-18 Plasma Shots. And while I can't deny that a 2+/5++ is nice I'll take my chances dealing more hurt at range and sticking with a 3+. Clearly this should not be sent after a Tarpit player and never more than 2 fully kitted Drop Teams. Hell its fine to hold them back at the 5 WG/1 RP stage. They still kick serious ass

I'm confused, why not just edit the points to be correct?

As for the combi weapon question, since you can't load 5 termies plus the char in a pod you lose that option for preferred enemy which seemed to be your entire point. I figured regular pa wolf guard with combi, though that is not as cool as either the termies or gunslingers would still save points.

Edit: would a Lysander stern guard pod fit your vision better? How much do you value the ability to charge after shooting your pistols on round 2?

Oh? The Points!! ok I'll fix that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Being able to assault is more like gravy. If this was a choice of a Plasmagun instead I'd probably choose it (would probably be cheaper as well). I mean vs Plasma there isn't alot of TEQ that can be deployed en masse. This is meant to be a powerful T1 Alpha and T2 clean up squad or squads that go after high priority targets and become a mental threat to the enemy. I usually have either a lot of Grey Hunters w/ Predators or Long Fangs that pose the real threat but they won't look at them when I melt their face on the first turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Think of them as SW Deathmarks

I show that squad dealing 7.5 wounds to infantry of t5 or lower. Ignoring armor is nice, and I admit I have no experience running such a unit as I stuck to combi weapons, but how often do you catch a unit with its pants down? By that I mean out of cover or not somehow protected from ap2. I see this kind of unit dropping down, killing 5 from a squad, and theme targeted by all the short range weapons that have no better target. Do you often drop them with large blocks of grey Hunters in pods? I see them being ignored by long range shooting, but what else are all the bolters going to shoot at but your small yet deadly plasma squad?

Once again this all comes down to tactical drop pod positioning. It'll be very hard for you opponent to have all his units in cover by the time you drop. I don't tend to drop Grey Hunters, preferring to run them up the field into cover on the first turn if they aren't in range of anything. It's not that I can't either. If I do I make sure to drop odd numbers of Pods to get the most down on turn 1.

I have been preferring to drop terminators and a dred (in a Lucius pattern pod) in my enemy's deployment zone to tie them up/contest objectives on their side and drop grey hunters in subsequent turns to capture objectives. All the while, the long fangs are on a skyshield landing pad in the back raining down plasma (which I will someday regret with my terminators in the line of fire lol) and rockets.

I tried plasma gunslingers in the past. I run 9 WG with a rune priest (mainly using Prescience power from the divination table) so I would have 19 TL plasma shots at 12 inches if I could get in range.

I don't pod them, I rhino ride them as escorts to cover the grey hunters or some unfortunate unit that got chewed up by MCs and things with 2+ save. They are a 12 inch bubble threat against flyers that accidently fly over them sometimes when there is not enough place to move around the models but I don't recommend using them to counter said flyers.

However, an interesting thing to note, they are GOLD when playing in terrains where there are many buildings around, like both armies fighting in a city of sorts. OR in games where the field is pack and dense.

Does anyone have any experience so far against the new daemons codex? I am thinking Njal is a good HQ since he has the runic weapon that wounds on a 2+...

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Does anyone have any experience so far against the new daemons codex? I am thinking Njal is a good HQ since he has the runic weapon that wounds on a 2+...

I doubt Njal will stand a chance against daemons in close combat with or without runic weapon, non-monster daemons should be dealt with by bolters, not close combat

Continuity wrote:

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Does anyone have any experience so far against the new daemons codex? I am thinking Njal is a good HQ since he has the runic weapon that wounds on a 2+...

I doubt Njal will stand a chance against daemons in close combat with or without runic weapon, non-monster daemons should be dealt with by bolters, not close combat

This is what I was thinking (with the bolters)... My hopes would be Njal's storm effects could slow them down. I was planning a gun line defensive army against them. The new daemons seem pretty nasty... I possibly think a null zone C:SM Libby would be a big help (I know this is SW tactica though)

I tried running a single gunslinger Wolf Guard with a pack of scouts the other day. It really up's their potential with ehind enemy lines. Since they can no longer jump into cc to stay alive, they need all the "umph" they can get in that 1 round of fire. That's THE best place for a dual Plasma toting Wolf Guard I've found thus far. This squad is meant to hunt enemy heavy infantry (Long Fangs, Obliterators, Dark Reapers, etc. They usually don't perform very well, but I've got open elite slots and they are cheap. They draw some fire and mess with people's deployment. I figure they're worth it. If they come in to a mess of drop podding Grey Hunters, they may actually stay alive and put some hurting down. it works if you have a few points to spend and like to use your scouts once in a blue moon.

Wolf Guard, Plasma-Pistol x2
Wolf Scouts x5, Plasma-Gun, Plasma-Pistol

I like the way you think. Thats what I always do and it works twice as better as waisting time with rhinos.

Footslogging works well. Plenty of Long Fangs, and some solid units of Frost Weapon wielding Wolf Guard terminators. Works damn well.

I still run Rhinos, it's a box to drive past Helldrakes in. I tried footslogging for a while, even with a termy tank, and I just found my guys dying on their long walk. Rhinos get me 12-18 inches down the field, after that, who cares?

As for fliers (and by fliers, I really just mean the Helldrake, I've had little issue with the rest), I'm experimenting with the following solution:

Blood Angels Allies
Librarian with divination (who happens to look a lot like a Rune Priest)
Sniper Scouts with Camo cloaks (who happen to look a lot like my old melta Scouts, but with sniper rifles now)
Stormraven (which might be Fenrisian Grey)

This doesn't really change the feel of my Army. I already ran a divination RP, and gives me something to kill Helldrakes with. Sure, IG allies would be better, but I can play these guys exactly how I play my Wolves, just with a Stormraven and what I imagine will be great (and cheap) objective campers.

i like it

anonymou5 wrote:


Blood Angels Allies
Librarian with divination (who happens to look a lot like a Rune Priest)
Sniper Scouts with Camo cloaks (who happen to look a lot like my old melta Scouts, but with sniper rifles now)
Stormraven (which might be Fenrisian Grey)

Blood Angels? That's like picking the crippled kid for football because you feel sorry for him.

If you went for C:SM you could grab 2 fliers, superior troops, telion for manning an icarus and a null zone/GoI librarian. Far superior in both anti-air and fire support. Plus all the other awesome things like Sternguard to aid with that DP alpha strike.

Oh, Vanilla is a better option overall if you're going with a real allied force, and IG best of all, imo. I wanted somehing small, that did not change my normal Army. Not counting the Stormraven I'm only adding 190 pts, and 100 of that is almost an even swap on a Divination/Quad gunner, and 90 points is a very effective objective camper (I feel they'lll be better at camping Objectives than hte five GH with flamer I normally use, for similar cost). So realy, I'm just adding a Stormraven, which is maybe not as cost effective as a Vendetta, or two Skytalons, but it will serve its job, hunting Helldrakes

I feel it's still competative, but at it's heart my Army is still just Wolves. A small, and meaningless distinction, but it matters to me (I like the visual aesthetic to my Army, I like how my list plays, and I don't realy like the alliance system)

anonymou5 wrote:

I feel it's still competative, but at it's heart my Army is still just Wolves. A small, and meaningless distinction, but it matters to me (I like the visual aesthetic to my Army, I like how my list plays, and I don't realy like the alliance system)

I see what you're getting at, but for a similar cost, you can get better allies from C:SM. It's not like BA are the only battle brothers with access to a Stormraven anymore.

If you consider from C:SM:

Librarian with a combi-plasma GoI and NZ
Scout Squad Camo-cloaks, snipers, Telion
Stormraven
That's less than 500pts.
I'd personally add more snipers in there to keep them alive longer though. Telion on an icarus has a very good chance to KO Heldrakes the moment they come in with BS:6, plus he can snipe out special weapons troopers with ease.
The Librarian can be added to a GH squad with 2 plasmas and a TDA-combi-plasma WGPL, giving you a hefty 12 plasma shots, and mitigates their lack of a transport with GoI. He also allows you to rip up tough units like TH, SS terminators or Wraiths with NZ, making that squad disgustingly good at its job. The WG PL can be there to take challenges too.
If you wanted you could use up a FA slot and take a Stormtalon too if you're super concerned about fliers.

For some reason I never considered GOI, I dismissed vanilla because they can't take div (which I love). Of course, if I take a GOI Librarian, I either move my other RP over to Div and lose codex powers (and LL has won me more than a few tournament games) or lose access to div.

That said, it's not a bad idea, I would love Telion on an Icarus (which I need to get, to try out, I run a QG now). Of course, then the area behind my Aegis gets pretty crowded (it's got two LF squads there already, a third finds a good spot for cross angled shooted), I was going to park the scouts in terrain (preferably ruins).

That said, no reason I can't experiment with both, all my Marine allies are going to stay Grey...haha

A Stormtalon escorting a Raven is a good trick, but I don't really want to run two fliers, I think anything over 200 poitns in fliers leaves you extremely vulnerable on the ground. (this is all in context of TAC, and I really think you only NEED a flier versus Helldrakes. Everything else can be handled with clever maneuvering, and in fact, I prefer my IG opponents to load up Vendettas. That's less points for pie plates, which are what really drive me crazy.)

In summary though, I like that GOI squad, and I will be experimenting with it....not sure it's worth giving up Div/Codex powers for, but it's worth trying it out.

Well I keep my warlord RP back with Divination anyway. LL and JotWW are great, but being able to move 24" on demand is fantastic.

My aegis has a similar problem, although I've just moved a squad of Long Fangs into some other cover. Telion on there is just so awesome. I painted everything as Wolves, since it's obvious which squads are the allies (scoring scouts).

I disagree with the Raven/Talon meaning everything else is vulnerable. My IG is heavily dependent on Aircraft. It's just those damn Heldrakes which are really causing my Wolves trouble. I found Telion and the Raven to be incredibly useful for dealing with them. I've not taken a Talon yet, I loathe the model but it was more of an idea...

I had a concept for a 2+ save wolf list, but the 360 degree flamer screwed that over.

I feel like if you're only running one RP, you need to at least leave yourself open to taking him into the fight. Runic Weapon is so huge against certain lists, DE-Eldar, Demons, Nids (pretty nice to remove Biomancy, or take the invis out of invis-zoo). That said, that can easily be a pre-deployment decision, and since Telion is your Aegis gunner, you don't have to decide where to commit your RP like I do (since my Div caster is my gunner, and my Codex power hangs with the GHs)...still, a decision worth noting.

I just mathhammered Telion on an Icarus versus a Librarian/RP (without Chooser) on the Quadgun versus a Helldrake (factoring in the invuln) (and I apologize if these numbers are off)

Icarus: .44 HP removed, 5.6% chance of destroying it outright (.333 pens, .111 glances)
Quadgun: .79 HP removed, 6.6% chance of destorying it outright (.395 pens, .790 glances)

Neither is great, and they're really within randomocity of each other. Just food for thought.

I like that we've agreed on the same glaring problem, and are attacking it with extremely similar solutions (Psyker, Raven, sniper scouts)

In a defensive gunline style list, who would make the better HQ: Logan or Njal? I am having issues trying to make a dual force org list and it seems that Logan may be the choice since I only have 2 squads of GH's and 2 full 10 man WG terminator squads. Njal's storm powers seem they could be used for a very good defense though. I plan on taking the terminators but may have to split the GH's into 5 man squads to accomplish 4 troop choices and then take the tw full 10 man WG squads.

Logan is a killer in close combat, and with LF will destroy anything on the field with Tank Hunters. I love Njal though, a Njal Runepriest combo is very difficult overcome. Also a Njal Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf combination is very deadly. Both will be damn good in a defensive line.

Keep the GH in units of 10, with Wolf Standard, maybe MoW, and I usually do a melta and plasma or melta and flamer.

I always kit my Wolf Guard Terminators with Frost Weapons, ita only 3 more points in the end than a regular one, and better. Give one a thunder hammer, and make 2 units of 5. I do this and it works soo well, power attacks and +1S that holds up well.

I pretty much always footslog, save when I have a Land Raider and it is the main operation of the army. I find that for every Rhino, thats one less Thunderwolf or WG, or LF I could have.

I think it just comes down to the fact that I need more GHs... I only have two 10 man squads of GHs and two 10 man squads of WG terminators. I usually run Logan so doing dual force org is not an issue. But paying the points for Logan just to be able to take expensive troops is sometimes not advantageous.

anonymou5 wrote:
Runic Weapon is so huge against certain lists, DE-Eldar, Demons, Nids That said, that can easily be a pre-deployment decision.

This is actually a pretty difficult decision. It really depends on who I'm facing and if I get turn 1 or not. Key to it is that I don't need the RP for sitting on the AA gun. Also, divination can be useful in any squad. It doesn't have to be used only on Long Fangs. Also against low initiative armies like Necrons and Orks, JotWW is amazing. It does mean I lose prescience on Long Fangs, but I think overall the benefit of having Null Zone and GoI out weigh re-rolling misses.
The 24" runic weapon isn't as small as you might imagine, it's pretty effective even from back field, especially as many of the psychic power heavy armies like to move forward.

I just mathhammered Telion on an Icarus versus a Librarian/RP (without Chooser) on the Quadgun

Icarus: .44 HP removed, 5.6% chance of destroying it outright (.333 pens, .111 glances)
Quadgun: .79 HP removed, 6.6% chance of destroying it outright (.395 pens, .790 glances)

Neither is great, and they're really within randomocity of each other

Hmm, neither is that great at all. I assume I've been getting lucky with the Telion icarus then. It certainly feels better. The reason I think icarus > quadgun when stopping Heldrakes is because of IWND. I can't afford to be plinking off HP only for them to regenerate. The wound allocation from Telion is a great little bonus and has really come in handy on a few occasions. It actually means the sniper scouts (which are basically ablative wounds for Telion) are contributing.

I really think one of SW major weaknesses is the lack of long range guns on troops. The sniper scouts, although they're not great do mitigate this, and my previous solution (a 5man GH squad in a TL-LC razorback) cost more points, was less surivable and didn't contribute in the same way. Now that C:SM can pick up the Stormraven, things dramatically changed.

I am glad to report that Njal is a beast against Daemons... With the iron arm and invisability psychic powers, he rocked two daemon princes in challenges in my game yesterday.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I am glad to report that Njal is a beast against Daemons... With the iron arm and invisability psychic powers, he rocked two daemon princes in challenges in my game yesterday.

Wait you mean if he gets the two most broken powers he's a champ? Shocking. I'm sure the result would have been different if you had picked up the crappy powers.
I want to like Njal...I just can't when I can get 3 RPs for a similar price.

Long Fangs behind an AGDL with a divination rune priest and 5 missle launchers! That'll usually smoke that sucker good! If you want to be a real weener, ally up to get some Vendettas.

 Griddlelol wrote:

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I am glad to report that Njal is a beast against Daemons... With the iron arm and invisability psychic powers, he rocked two daemon princes in challenges in my game yesterday.

Wait you mean if he gets the two most broken powers he's a champ? Shocking. I'm sure the result would have been different if you had picked up the crappy powers.
I want to like Njal...I just can't when I can get 3 RPs for a similar price.

I completely understand. I rolled a few extra powers as well. Those two just seemed to shine the most out of my hand of powers that I rolled. I also noticed upon reading his profile that he has assault grenades... That's kinda cool... Plus nullifying about (what seemed like) 80% of my enemy's psychic powers... I think he paid for himself in the guys I didn't lose...

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I am glad to report that Njal is a beast against Daemons... With the iron arm and invisability psychic powers, he rocked two daemon princes in challenges in my game yesterday.

Wait you mean if he gets the two most broken powers he's a champ? Shocking. I'm sure the result would have been different if you had picked up the crappy powers.
I want to like Njal...I just can't when I can get 3 RPs for a similar price.

I completely understand. I rolled a few extra powers as well. Those two just seemed to shine the most out of my hand of powers that I rolled.

How many powers did you roll? He's mastery 2, and only rolls 2 powers..


For SW, try out some TWC+Lords and ally in Khan for some Furious charge hit'n'run fun. He doesn't even slow them down as he has fleet too. Good times.

He is level two but he knows all of the psychic powers so you swap them all out the charts. So he can have seven powers they just cost different warp points...

Mountain-Breaker wrote:


I always kit my Wolf Guard Terminators with Frost Weapons, ita only 3 more points in the end than a regular one, and better. Give one a thunder hammer, and make 2 units of 5. I do this and it works soo well, power attacks and +1S that holds up well.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from, a Frost Weapon is 10 pts more than a PW. I consider them about as overpriced as possible, especially the Frost Axe on a Terminator, which is the same price as a powerfist, with literally no advantage (the number of attacks is even the same, since a WG TDA isn't getting the pistol + CCW bonus) and less strength. There is absolutely no reason to ever run frost weapons, which is sad really, because they're so unique.

And considering a SW Terminator pays roughly the same number of points for a TH as Vanilla (or BA for that matter) does for an Assault Terminator with TH and SS, you're not really maximizing the advantages in our codex with TH TDA (and especially not with TH/SS TDA). If you want to run Assault Termies, take allies. If you want to run WG TDA, run them vanilla or with combis. That's where our advantages lie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
He is level two but he knows all of the psychic powers so you swap them all out the charts. So he can have seven powers they just cost different warp points...

From the FAQ

"A Space Wolves Rune Priest (including Njal Stormcaller) may
use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Space Wolves. If he does so,
generate two new powers from the Biomancy, Divination or
Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination) before armies are
deployed."

So, no. He gets two powers if he swaps out his codex powers.

Anonymou5 pretty much said everything I was going to say.

Although I'd like to add that Nijal is so heavily dependent on an assault list to make the most of his storm chart. I thought something was fishy when the poster said he got invis and iron arm.

Wow... what the FAQ was I thinking... Thank you for the correction... I was following the example of a member in my gaming group...

One interesting thing I noticed with wolf guard, you can swap both of his weapons for combi-weapons, so you can have a wolf guard with both combi-melta and combi-flamer to deal with different situations, and since our combi-weapons are cheap, this can be put to good use.

Here are some of my thoughts and ideas I use with my Space Wolves:

Grey Hunters:
The BEST unit in our codex point-for-point. You get the bolter, bolt pistol, AND CC wep (and of course PA, frag & krak grenades, etc) for only 15 pts per model. With counter attack and the CC wep/pistol you always get 3 attacks per model whether you're charging or not. Frankly, I prefer to be charged with my hunters so I can rapid fire my bolters on overwatch. I always put my GH into drop pods in one of two configurations: 10 man GH with 2 melta/2 flamer (meltas for anti-vehicle and flamers for anti-infantry obviously) -or- I'll run an 8 man GH Squad with a TDAWG (flamer and combi-flamer for anti-infantry or melta and combi-melta for anti-vehicle).
Regardless of which configuration I always give them the wolf standard and one of them a MotW. I'll drop pod in turn 1, jump out, shoot the crap out of priority targets, and draw a TON of counter fire. I always place the TDAWG in front to soak bullets with his 2+ armor save and the the MotW and standard bearer in the middle to keep them safe (that's 25pts worth of CC abilities that you don't want to die to bolter fire). The main reason I drop pod my GH is that the drop pod provides the most effective delivery system to get 10 (9) marines in my opponents face, forcing them to turn and deal with them which allows my Long fangs time to take out the other priority targets, and any footslogging infantry units to get across the board. I normally run 3 pods and I'll drop 2 killing pods on turn one and my third pod will drop next to an objective for denial/capturing whenever it comes in from reserve. I Have no problem with 10 GH getting killed. With the upgrades and the pod it's still only a 220pt unit that causes MAJOR havoc in the enemy ranks and if they don't die that's even better; having a small surviving scoring/denial unit in the enemies backfield forces them to waste valuable late game resources to take them out. I had a game where my opponent disregarded my last surviving GH so I ran him behind cover and snuck around through the ruins to snag an empty objective in turn 5

Rhino Vs Drop Pod
The rhino does have its' usefulness. It's an armored box to get your infantry into combat faster. Another great thing about the rhino is that it forces opponents to waste shots to pop it. It's also a good rolling roadblock to provide cover for advancing troops. I however prefer the drop pod as it allows me to get my troops (almost) exactly where I want them. I don't have to worry about it getting wrecked before it gets where I need it. The rhino is also not an assault vehicle and therefore your best case scenario is to roll up in rapid fire range, jump out, and wait which is exactly the same as a drop pod except for the fact that the rhino can be popped in your backfield and your GH now have to walk/run across the battlefield. Also, if you rhino does get popped, everyone inside takes a S4 hit, can only disembark 3", and must take a pinning test..... Not to mention the fact that the rhino can take a Crew shaken or crew stunned result which makes it 100% useless when your guys have to climb out of the wreckage... All in all, the rhino is not a bad vehicle for what it is, but the drop pod is much better for the same points IMO.

Long Fangs
I absolutely LOVE my long fangs. I usually run 2 squads; one anti-infantry with 2 heavy bolters, 2 plasma cannons,1 missile launcher and a TDAWG with cyclone missile launcher; and one anti-vehicle with 2 lascannons, 3 missile launchers, and a TDAWG with cyclone missile launcher. The best part about my anti-infantry squad is that the 2 plasma cannons and missile launcher can still pop AV 12/13 vehicles if I need them to Each squad also has some anti-terminator with the plasma cannons and lascannons. Place the TDAWG in the front to soak shots with his 2+/5+. And I always bring a Divination Rune Priest nearby to Prescience them.

Rune Priests
Hands down, one of the best psykers in the game IMO. 2 choosable powers from the codex or roll on Divination, Biomancy, or Telepathy! You can mix and match too. Not to mention the runic weapon DTW on all enemy powers manifested within 24" including blessings)! I normally bring them baseline (pure codex 100pts), and roll Div for prescience plus whatever else I get. If I bring a lvl 2, I always put him behind an Aegis Defense Line with a quadgun; take Prescience from Div and JotWW or LL from the codex, chooser of the slain, and put him in a 10 man squad of GH. Deploy the ADL near the front of my deployment zone with the quadgun near the back and the GH to soak wounds and put out a little fire power at 24" with bolters (I also will place one of my objectives here for free VP). I also try to deploy at least 1 long fang pack within 12' to get Prescience when I need it. Keep in mind though, I DO NOT feel that it's worth 100 pts to simply add a baseline RP to a unit of long fangs just for the re-rolls. That's too expensive.

Thunderwolf Cavalry
These guys are freaking amazing! You just have to be careful as they can get very expensive very quickly. I normally run a 5 man squad with 2 Storm shields/Power Fist, and the rest with Power Weps. Throw in a Wolf Lord on a thunderwolf with SS/Power wep. Deploy them in a wedge with the Lord up front, one SS on each wing to throw 3+ invuls against all incoming fire. I don't bother to give the lord Saga of the Bear because he's already T5 so can only be instant death'd by S10 weapons. So if a S10 weapon hits him, I'll LOS the wound to a baseline TWC and move along. I really like using them in conjunction with my drop pod GH and long fangs. 20 GH all up in their face forces the opponent to choose to pop shots at my long fangs, TWC, or GH. The majority of the time, the GH are too much of a threat to ignore so they soak 1-2 turns with of fire which gives my TWC time to run up and get engaged. Meanwhile my LF are decimating all their priority targets.

TDAWG
Our terminators are a double edged sword IMO. Baseline, they're cheap: 33 pts for PW/Storm Bolter. But if you want assault-inators you're better off taking allies. To give a WG TDA, SS, and TH you're looking at 63pts per model! OUCH! When I do run units of terminators, I'll bring a full 10 with PF and 2 cyclone missile launchers. That's 43pts each + 60 for the 2 cyclones. Then I'll footslog them bad boys right up the middle of the damn field shooting storm bolters and missiles all the way. Once they get into CC, I'm looking at 30 attacks at S8, AP2, I1. Kills 90% of units I come across in one round. No questions asked. Plus if I bring Logan, he makes them scoring, and gives his High King ability to keep 'em on the march and shooting effectively. I use this unit in much the same manner as my TWC. When my opponent sees 10 (11 with Logan) terminators marching straight into their face, they're forced to make a difficult decision: lay down fire on the terminators so they don't destroy everything they come in contact with (and ignore the GH pods and LF); or take out the GH/LF and try to deal with 10 pissed off TDAWGs in close combat.

Fast Attack
I've found that my bikes and skyclaws are only mediocre as I HAVE to bring a WG with them to negate their 'too stupid to shoot' rule. I don't use either unit very frequently. If I'm going to bring some FA, I like to bring Fenrisian Wolves because they are STUPID cheap. They're running at MEQ stats (S4 T4 WS4) with 3 attacks (+1 on the charge, or counterattack if they get charged) and they're only 8pts each. They definitely are glass cannons though: 6+ save on regulars 4+ on a cyberwolf means they die as soon as you hit them. My other FA choice are my land speeders. I'll bring a pair of them armed with heavy bolters and assault cannons, and I bring them in by deep strike. With the HB and AC I can deal quickly with any threat. If the situation needs me to kill armor, I'll deep strike in their rear facing and I can pop anything AV 14 or less. If it's infantry I need to kill, I'm looking at 8 S6 shots from the AC (rending on 6s) and another 6 S5 from the HB. That's 14 shots to stall out a unit of infantry that's giving me a hassle.

HQ
Take whichever one you want lol! They're all awesome. The best is Logan Grimnar IMO. Logan makes WG troop choices which means you can have scoring terminators. Plus he gives his unit his High King ability. I'll take preferred enemy during my shooting phase and fearless during yours. Then preferred enemy and Living Legend during the turn his unit is going to get into CC.

Everything else
Dreadnoughts are O.K. That's about it. Sometimes I'll bring 'em but most of the time I don't. They're only 12/12/10 AV and tend to pop whenever my opponent decides he wants to pop 'em.
Blood Claws..... meh. Their large unit size (15 models) is nice as is the extra attack on the charge. The only way to effectively use BC is to put 15 of them with a WG in a LR Crusader and go full speed at the enemy, jump out, and kill stuff. It's fun, but for the points, you can probably do better with some GH. The WS3 really kinda negates the extra attack IMO.
Wolf Scouts are good in that they are full MEQ stats compared to other SM scouts, but they're a little more expensive, and there's no way to make them scoring... Those two issues combined makes it so that I use them very sparingly. They can be really good at what they do with their Behind Enemy Lines combined with Acute Senses. But idk. I don't use them very often. Maybe I should play with them a bit more and really see what I can do with them.
Vindicators!! I love the vindicator. For 125 pts (I always bring the siege shield) I can drop pie plates of doom anywhere within 24". If I have the points I will always bring my Vindicator to fill my 3rd Heavy slot (2 LF packs and Vindi FTW!). The only downside to the vindicator is that its only 13/11/10 AV so it tends to get popped right off the bat. No one wants to let me throw around my pie plates of doom

Few other things:
I try to bring an ADL with QG to almost every battle. Skyfire + BS 5 (RP with CotS) + twinlink + interceptor on a S7 heavy 4 means that I can hopefully shoot down enemy flyers the second they enter the board and only have to suffer one vector strike from each aircraft. If that doesn't work, I'll just go ahead and use Prescience on my LF and pop a bunch of reroll snapfires. We don't have a whole hell of a lot we can do to deal with flyers but considering all of the other things we can do with our codex, I'm not complaining. If I want to bring a plane(s) of my own I'll bring some C:SM or IG. Also, against any SM codex that uses drop pods, I'll pop interceptor on their pods to try to snag First Blood during their turn when I don't have initiative.


Thanks!

-Skrog

Skrog wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts and ideas I use with my Space Wolves:

take Prescience from Div and JotWW or LL from the codex,

Unfortunaely, it does't work that way. You get BRB OR Codex powers, not one of each.

From the FAQ

"A Space Wolves Rune Priest (including Njal Stormcaller) may
use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Space Wolves. If he does so,
generate two new powers from the Biomancy, Divination or
Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination) before armies are
deployed."

anonymou5 wrote:

Skrog wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts and ideas I use with my Space Wolves:

take Prescience from Div and JotWW or LL from the codex,

Unfortunaely, it does't work that way. You get BRB OR Codex powers, not one of each.

From the FAQ

"A Space Wolves Rune Priest (including Njal Stormcaller) may
use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Space Wolves. If he does so,
generate two new powers from the Biomancy, Divination or
Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination) before armies are
deployed."

Touchee. I see that I can generate powers from 2 diff BRB disciplines but not BRB and codex :( thanks for pointing that out

I have been opting for the skyshield landing pad for an elevated firing platform. Some people complain about it, but it is only because it negates the high powered IG ignores cover blast weapons. Also, after having entire squads being wiped out by helldrakes, it is a good option.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I have been opting for the skyshield landing pad for an elevated firing platform. Some people complain about it, but it is only because it negates the high powered IG ignores cover blast weapons. Also, after having entire squads being wiped out by helldrakes, it is a good option.

I actually never thought about that. Not a bad idea. I hate the buildings though, no one can ever agree on the rules.

Aside from the obnoxious size of the model, the reason I don't touch them is that every tournament I've been to has banned them.
While not broken for SW, they are for some armies. Oh and the size...

Looks like Tau are the new bullies on the block... Anyone played them yet? I am working on getting a game with a Tau player and am looking at army options. In the codex, only one person can take each Saga, but what about psychic powers... Seems the controversial JoTWW would come in handy in an outflanking unit of TWC (with battle leader) with the rune priest on a bike (to help withstand some of the interceptor shots and help him keep up with TWC)... Maybe even 2 rune priests... Dual 24" lines causing initiative tests should aid in removing models from a Tau gunline... Is this a shady tactic or genius? Lol

If he plays Gunline. Tau has some more mobile options too, though most Tau players seem to be focused on what the gunline could offer.


To be honest, agaisnt wolves who are basically an assaulty gunline, I'd actually throw some of my more mobile options on the field and back off.


Anyway, expect large plates that ignore your armour and inflict instant death. Some of them may appear the moment you come in from reserves. Expect cover saves to be useless. Expect BS 3 units to hit on a 2+ with reroll. Expect lots of sniper shots. Expect to face hordes of shots if you assault anything (Tau can fire overwtch if any unit in 6 inches is assaulted, not just themselves) and expect some overwatch to come in at BS 2 or even more. Expect every shot to wound on a 4+, 3+ or 2+.

On the plus side for you, Land Raiders should survive well unless he brings some Melta, the super railguns are more or less gone. On the downside, the repalcement for the railguns fires 4 twin-linked strength 7 shots . . .

As cheesy as it is... I plan on running my long fangs on a skyshield landing pad... 4+ invol is essentially the same as the 4+ cover save that the ADL would offer... Fight cheese with cheese, I guess... hopefully TWC outflanking with storm shields should be able to make it through the initial interceptor shots to through down some JoTWW action by the two rune priests as described above...

Seems to me the Sons of Russ have their work cut out for them....

I find with the release of the chaos sm codex, long fangs are not long for this world. ADL no longer cuts it. So it's either get rid of the long fangs or upgrade to a landing pad.

IG allies has almost become a staple in my competitive space wolf lists. For 400pts you get a primaris psyker or Lord Commissar, vet squad and 1 squadron of 2 vendettas. Frees up the rune priest to still take LL and JotWW.

If you take rifleman in place of the long fangs, adl still works. AV12 with 4+ cover saves is pretty solid. If this is my option I put my GH in rhinos.

If I'm going long fangs for my fire support, I take drop pods for the grey hunters and drop them in.

That's my take on space wolves in 6th ed.

I play 1850.

I strongly agree. However it's disappointing that the fire base that made SW stand out has become a weak version of what other codices can bring. My predator is a more expensive, weaker version of what chaos/DA can bring, and my Rifleman is a weaker version of what GK can bring.
It's just rather disappointing to be honest. Although AV13 is much more survivable in a Heldrake meta than Long Fangs. Especially with a 4+ cover save.

Yeah, 2+armor/ invol saves are where it's at now... Too bad the SW termies are so expensive lol

Yeah, the long range firebase model of the Wolves is ironically somewhat outdated in this edition. Krak missiles just don't do it any more and the mix of plasma and Lascannon that does the trick makes Long Fangs cost almost twice as much as they used to. No organic anti-air hurts a fair bit too. So far Razorbacks seem to be the best anti-air option available.

Right now it seems that with Space Wolves the best option is to drop pod Dreadnoughts, Grey Hunters and Wolfguard in the other guy's face and shoot the heck out of him. If he hasn't charged you by the next turn you can then either assault or keep shooting.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Yeah, 2+armor/ invol saves are where it's at now... Too bad the SW termies are so expensive lol

SW terminators are cheaper if you don't go crazy on equipment. If you run them with a combi-weapon and a mix of power axes and mauls you have a great little shooting section that can also handle itself in cc against anything. Couple this with being able to take terminators as squad leaders and I think SW terminators are significantly better than other loyalist choices. With the obvious exception of vanilla assault terminators that are criminally under costed.

As for LFs, I totally agree. If you start kitting them out with guns that are going to make a difference then their price gets far too high, especially with heldrakes, riptides and colossi.

I was gonna have DE as my next army, but I did the math and SWs would cost me at least half as much if not more. So anyway, as a noob SW guy I have a few questions:

* Grey Hunters, what are the standard builds now? In mosts lists with 10 GH (No WG) I see 2 of the same special weapons (usually Melta), MotW, and a banner. Should I ever take a PW/PF?

* With challenges and Precision shots, is taking a Wolf Guard worth it anymore? With ATSKNF, GH's Ld doesn't seem as big of a deal as say, CSM. That and if I take a WG, I lose a special weapon, and while I can give the WG a combi-weapon its still only one shot.

*Rhinos or drop pods? I've had nothing but bad luck with Rhinos in my previous PA armies, they're either popped turn 1 and kill a couple of my unit or they're immobilized, in either case I just wasted 35 pts I could've used elsewhere.. The SW battleforce comes with a Drop pod so I know I'll be using it at least for my first couple games.

*Wolf Guard Termies. I've had experience with CSM termies. where they start out cheaper than loyalist but with worse weapons and end up costing a lot more to bring them up to par with vanilla TEQ,. Is this the same deal with Wolf Guard Termies?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I was gonna have DE as my next army, but I did the math and SWs would cost me at least half as much if not more. So anyway, as a noob SW guy I have a few questions:

* Grey Hunters, what are the standard builds now? In mosts lists with 10 GH (No WG) I see 2 of the same special weapons (usually Melta), MotW, and a banner. Should I ever take a PW/PF?

Mark of the Wulfen should be ample to handle any armor problems. Power weapons aren't really necessary.

* With challenges and Precision shots, is taking a Wolf Guard worth it anymore? With ATSKNF, GH's Ld doesn't seem as big of a deal as say, CSM. That and if I take a WG, I lose a special weapon, and while I can give the WG a combi-weapon its still only one shot.

You only lose the extra gun if you take a transport if you run 9 guys and a wolf guard. You can footslog a 11 man squad. WG mileage may vary, try putting them in terminator armor if you slog them.

*Wolf Guard Termies. I've had experience with CSM termies. where they start out cheaper than loyalist but with worse weapons and end up costing a lot more to bring them up to par with vanilla TEQ,. Is this the same deal with Wolf Guard Termies?

Basically. I'm not familiar with the Chaos Marine codex, but WG terminators get power weapons instead of fists with an initial discount of like 7 points. With fists, they're 43 which isn't that unreasonable considering you can cram WG Terminators with other SW units. The most expensive I'd go is taking the Assault Cannon or CML and no special CC weapon.

One more question, due to the new rules for Specialist Weapons like wolf claws and powerfists, how good does it sound if I run Wolf guard termies with both a wolf claw and a powerfist? its relatively cheap (15 pts or 48 pts for the whole termie) you get the +1 attack, and now you get to choose whether its more important getting the first strike or hitting hard.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
One more question, due to the new rules for Specialist Weapons like wolf claws and powerfists, how good does it sound if I run Wolf guard termies with both a wolf claw and a powerfist? its relatively cheap (15 pts or 48 pts for the whole termie) you get the +1 attack, and now you get to choose whether its more important getting the first strike or hitting hard.

It is great in blood claw units, for grey hunters you stil want to stay back and shoot a little more, so for them, you would like a CC+ shooting weapon

You never ever want dual claws

SlyasR wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
One more question, due to the new rules for Specialist Weapons like wolf claws and powerfists, how good does it sound if I run Wolf guard termies with both a wolf claw and a powerfist? its relatively cheap (15 pts or 48 pts for the whole termie) you get the +1 attack, and now you get to choose whether its more important getting the first strike or hitting hard.

It is great in blood claw units, for grey hunters you stil want to stay back and shoot a little more, so for them, you would like a CC+ shooting weapon

You never ever want dual claws

I was thinking about for a pure WG Termie unit, as stated above I'm not yet sold on putting WG with GH or Blood Claws since they are too easily sniped out with precision shots and/or nullified with challenges in assault. For pure termie units of most armies (with the exception of GK and their psycannons), I've always felt that Termies do their most damage in assault with any shooting in between being just a bonus. Hence why for a 5 man unit of WG Terminators I've been thinking of running them as so:

Wolf Claw/PF
Wolf Claw/PF
TH/SS
TH/SS
Assault Cannon/Power weapon

All in a drop pod = 320 pts

WG Terminators + Termie Rune Priest + Divination + GoI Librarian = Win (or Epic Points Sink Fail)

In my experience, the beat way to get them across the table is with the SM librarian...

Also, having a WG in with the GHs is awesome... Give the GHs a PF and then challenge the opponents character/sergeant... You may get a couple rounds of combat where you can slap the squad around with your unchallengable PF.... win...

Just some random thoughts...

are any of the SC HQ's viable?

The vanilla codex is calling. It says don't even bother with assault terminators SW. The ultramarines have them covered.

SW assault terminators are ridiculously over priced. Steer clear of them. However, their basic terminators with a combi-weapon are fantastic and cheaper than vanilla tac terminators, although stronger at shooting but weaker in assault.

The the poster above me: SW have some of the best HQ units in the game. The RP is an auto take, he's fantastic. The wolf priest is great too. Thunder wolf lord isn't terrible, but costs a lot of points.

What are ulrik and njal like?

Ulrik is pretty pointless unless you face down a lot of Nurgle or Bikes.

Njal is expensive, but pretty powerful. Lord of the Storm can be potentially game changing and his Runic Weapon shuts down powers on a 3+, which is nice. The bigger the game though, the more reasonable choice he would be.

The above poster summed it up. However I feel that Njal is difficult to use correctly. If he's not marching forward to get those storm effects into play, he's basically not getting his points worth. You could just take 2 normal Rune Priests.

However if he is used well he can be very strong for the 265(?) points.

What about Neal and a rune priest?

I've started running 7 GHs with WS in a DP and a TDAWG. It's a scoring unit you can put anywhere on the board, that is above average at shooting, and almost a top tier melee unit for one assault phase. TDAWG under standard is just brutal, it doesn't matter if he gets challenged out, just deny it and tank all the wounds. He is invulnerable to AP3 and below for one assault, and you're going to put out a ridiculous number of wounds for a basic Troops unit that phase. I've won combat against Fleshhounds and forced DI tests (the GHs were later wiped out, but they more than did their job as a speed bump), exterminated six man Wraith squads in two phases, wiped entire units of Gaunts (just make sure you park in terrain), etc. It's ridiculous how good of a melee unit GHs can become with clever positioning.

I leave them at 7 because I like the flexibility of matching the RP with different weapons load outs depending on what my match up is. If I'm facing horde, I know the Flamer/HF squad is going to die, if I'm facing elite, I don't want him in a plasma squad, etc Alternatively I park my RP in a blob in the backfield and twinlink my Manticore until it's time for the blob to ram into something. (or if playing FW I have the points for two RPs, one can just sacrifice himself to get good Jaws shots in, and the warlord hides in a blob and twinlinks earthshaker platforms instead)

Edit: the only sane way to run TDAWGs is Combi/PW. I run one HF/PW, as well (same points cost). A CML or AC has it's use too, but any CC upgrades are a waste of points. Free PWs is good enough for Pack Leaders, and it's good enough for Loganwing (which should be 85% PA anyway) I use Axes, because I like giving my squad free AP2, and he'll almost always make it to i1 under Standard (unless against something funky like a DLord)

 Griddlelol wrote:
The above poster summed it up. However I feel that Njal is difficult to use correctly. If he's not marching forward to get those storm effects into play, he's basically not getting his points worth. You could just take 2 normal Rune Priests.

However if he is used well he can be very strong for the 265(?) points.

I like Njal the most out of our named Characters (with Arjac comming in close on second place).

The issue I find, like you say is to get him into place for the storm effect and anti-psyker radius to take effect. This is usually solved by drop pods.

use 3-5 drop pods of GHs. Put Njal out in the middle of the board with 6-8 GH (depending on if you want WG or not). Pay for his terminator armour! put the other drop pod(s) comming turn 1 about 12 inch forward so you are up in your enemys face but not out of reach from support. on remaining turns keep your pods comming right in your enemys face. This has worked great for me at least, it might take some practise but its great.

for more support I have 1 or 2 units of 10-12 fenrisian wolves comming running (they are dirt cheap and they are fast to support your grey hunters in the front)

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

SlyasR wrote:

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

And AP4...

 Wilytank wrote:

SlyasR wrote:

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

And AP4...

Being S6 still kicks as with strong daemons out there, and my Njal has Once force weaponed off a dreadknight who charged him

SlyasR wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

SlyasR wrote:

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

And AP4...

Being S6 still kicks as with strong daemons out there, and my Njal has Once force weaponed off a dreadknight who charged him

Runic weapons wound daemons on a 2+ anyway. So what?

Any thoughts on landraider variants that would suit SW? I know they are expensive point-wise, lascannons and melta are a threat, but so much of the game has gone to str 7 plasma... I think the change in 6th has made the landraider a mobile bunker instead of the delivery system it once was... Any thoughts?

I am looking to get 2 of them to run (also they will be my first airbrush project, after I practice on some land speeders lol)...

A guy on another thread JoTWW 2 riptides with the same shot so its Definitley worth a go, why would a tournament ban them? Just for being useful?

Word on the street is Space Wolves codex will be release sometime mid 2014. Possibility of a gargantuan wolf like MC and grey hunters to be nerfed. Thoughts?

If they bring out a mecha-wolf I think I'm done with SW. TWC I can just abide, but a giant grandma eating fenrisian wolf would be the last nail in the coffin.
I personally doubt they'll nerf GHs. It's more likely they'll buff other MEQ by lowing their cost to 14ppm like in the DA codex. Still 2014 is a long way away, and chances are the wolf MC thing are just hearsay based on the fact the previous 2 codices had MCs shoe horned in.

I think the Imperium Codexes aren't going to get many Giant mecha. They will instead focus on the Land Raiders and the Flyers.

An ability to take TWC as troops or at least scoring would be nice (similar to Pedro Kantor or Khan from C:SM)... discounts on landraiders would be cool too... My issue with LRs is that they cost real world $$$ and eat up a lot of points...

I'm thinking of ditching LF's entirely and contemplating 6 full GH squads in pods, with a 7th pod of WG with various loadouts led by a RP for 1600

Thoughts on this? I am rolling dice on it against various units and I don't seem to have the killing power I am looking for either in shooting or CC with 2x dual melta, 2x dual plasma and 2x dual flamer (4 coming down T1).

I also made points for MotW or a power weapon in the squads but again am not finding they have that much killing power, even a MotW guy with banner up getting rolling a 6 for attacks only kills 1-2 MEQ and the rest of the squad is also not faring much better (not by math but averaging a few dice rolls). Should I put that 90 points into something else?

Thoughts on improving this short of throwing IG in the mix??

 More Dakka wrote:
I'm thinking of ditching LF's entirely and contemplating 6 full GH squads in pods, with a 7th pod of WG with various loadouts led by a RP for 1600

Thoughts on this? I am rolling dice on it against various units and I don't seem to have the killing power I am looking for either in shooting or CC with 2x dual melta, 2x dual plasma and 2x dual flamer (4 coming down T1).

I also made points for MotW or a power weapon in the squads but again am not finding they have that much killing power, even a MotW guy with banner up getting rolling a 6 for attacks only kills 1-2 MEQ and the rest of the squad is also not faring much better (not by math but averaging a few dice rolls). Should I put that 90 points into something else?

Thoughts on improving this short of throwing IG in the mix??

If you're going that route, go Loganwing. Now each pod has seven combi weapons in it (or ten, whatever) instead of 2 specials. Increases the T1/T2 damage output considerably. Make the seventh pod Long Fangs and put Logan there (Relentless)

OK so 6 units of 6 WG with combis, 6 of them are TDA w/PWs in Pods + Logan.

Now I need 1 more Pod to make it sexy, and I was thinking a LF squad with Multi Meltas, works out to like 1596.

How's that? Compared to 6 units of GH at 10 men each + pods + a unit of TDA WG with a RP??

 More Dakka wrote:
OK so 6 units of 6 WG with combis, 6 of them are TDA w/PWs in Pods + Logan.

Now I need 1 more Pod to make it sexy, and I was thinking a LF squad with Multi Meltas, works out to like 1596.

How's that? Compared to 6 units of GH at 10 men each + pods + a unit of TDA WG with a RP??

I run it 6 PA and 1 TDA, 42 combi weapons (well a few heavy flamers), and then one TDA WG with Cyclones breaks off to join the Long Fangs. That also let's me run two RPs. But either way, it's more devastating than GHs.

Ok, if I were to stick with GH but beef them out a bit would anyone suggest MotW over say a Power Axe? Been running the numbers and they seem about on par even with better than average MotW attack rolls.

Thoughts?

 More Dakka wrote:
Ok, if I were to stick with GH but beef them out a bit would anyone suggest MotW over say a Power Axe? Been running the numbers and they seem about on par even with better than average MotW attack rolls.

Thoughts?

MotW wins out in my opinion, especially when you blow your standard.
However, if you have the points; why not both?

It's an either/or kinda thing given the current list, plus I am leading my GH wtih TDA WG with power axes already so at least there is some consistent AP2 even if it's challengable.

 More Dakka wrote:
Ok, if I were to stick with GH but beef them out a bit would anyone suggest MotW over say a Power Axe? Been running the numbers and they seem about on par even with better than average MotW attack rolls.

Thoughts?

Mark of the Wulfen is superior to a power weapon. You have the possibility of more base attacks at initiative 4 and rending can make them AP2. Furthermore, against vehicles or high toughness monsters (expect to see a lot more T8 wraithlords now Codex : Eldar is out), rending is vastly superior to a power axe. MotW can kill Rhinos. A power axe cannot. In order to wound a T8 wraithlord, you need a minimum strength of 6, or rending. A power axe won't cut it.

Ah this is true, at least MotW can get rends against much tougher opponents.

Thanks I have shoved one into each of my GH squads