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I keep hearing that SW is better than Codex SM and BA as far as the non-GK/CSM MEQ armies. However, is the only way (from within your own codex and not allies) to deal with flyers Aegis Defense Line and spamming bodies? In a competitive scene where I know I'll be seeing some lists with 5+ flyers it's going to be an uphill battle...

Spamming bodies is pretty good to do especially because GH's are really good and scoring...just unsure if I want to play that many guys on foot -_- Always been more of a mech player.


Also for vehicle spamming, do you guys normally take 8-10GH in a Rhino? or go 5-6+0-1 WG in a RB? Been thinking about this and am leaning towards the Rhino and no WG's...but would I be really suffering much w/o my WG in there to absorb challenges and better LD?

syypher wrote:
I keep hearing that SW is better than Codex SM and BA as far as the non-GK/CSM MEQ armies. However, is the only way (from within your own codex and not allies) to deal with flyers Aegis Defense Line and spamming bodies? In a competitive scene where I know I'll be seeing some lists with 5+ flyers it's going to be an uphill battle...

Spamming bodies is pretty good to do especially because GH's are really good and scoring...just unsure if I want to play that many guys on foot -_- Always been more of a mech player.


Also for vehicle spamming, do you guys normally take 8-10GH in a Rhino? or go 5-6+0-1 WG in a RB? Been thinking about this and am leaning towards the Rhino and no WG's...but would I be really suffering much w/o my WG in there to absorb challenges and better LD?

I find that extra LD from the WG is really important. I usually take 9 in a squad, with Rhino, with MotW, Standard, and plasma/melta depending on how I'm feeling that day. If you don't want the WG, you can have two special weapons, and a powerfist for 5pts more. It's tricky. You're basically paying 3 points for a extra attack and an extra point of LD, which is really very cheap for what you stand to gain. I always find that more useful then slightly more dakka.

syypher wrote:
I keep hearing that SW is better than Codex SM and BA as far as the non-GK/CSM MEQ armies. However, is the only way (from within your own codex and not allies) to deal with flyers Aegis Defense Line and spamming bodies? In a competitive scene where I know I'll be seeing some lists with 5+ flyers it's going to be an uphill battle...

Spamming bodies is pretty good to do especially because GH's are really good and scoring...just unsure if I want to play that many guys on foot -_- Always been more of a mech player.


Also for vehicle spamming, do you guys normally take 8-10GH in a Rhino? or go 5-6+0-1 WG in a RB? Been thinking about this and am leaning towards the Rhino and no WG's...but would I be really suffering much w/o my WG in there to absorb challenges and better LD?

Spamming bodies may not be the way to go, as exhibit A might decline you from hoofing it:



Whenever I fail a pinning check, it always feels like 10-12 is what I roll. What you get out of a WG is minimal when you can take a 10pt gun for free. Mount them in Rhinos expecting them to die Turn 1 and use the 12" / 18" first turn to start the ball rolling.

Thekbob by your logic i would rather Drop pod my units 12-18 inch in, hogging mid and advance because thats the exact same start ad having rhinos then. Only difference is that with Drop pods you get the possibility of alpha strike and different alpint of aggressiveness depending on opponent. And you probably dont Lose first blood.

 TheKbob wrote:

Spamming bodies may not be the way to go, as exhibit A might decline you from hoofing it:

Eurgh. This thing is a joke when I play IG, but as soon as my SW come out the box, I cry when I see it. I've actually considered taking blood claws just so I can jump into combat and ignore this thing, but it still means LFs die in swathes.

With rerolls and 5 ml your chances arnt bad if you take 2 lfp you could potentially shoot down 4 flyers. add a quad gun and you potential flyer kill is 5.

I'm not too scared of that Chaos dragon... all you need to do is get a weapon destroyed on it and it will not bother you except for a couple of turns where it may be able to vector strike, but it will have to line them up first...

What is everyone's favorite character/HQ? I watched a friend of mine play his SW this weekend... and it seems (in a 2000 point game) Arjac is an auto-include... at least I was very impressed...

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I'm not too scared of that Chaos dragon... all you need to do is get a weapon destroyed on it

Man you make rolling 6s followed by (ML) 5+ or (LC) 4+, your opponent proceeding to fail a 5+, then getting a single result out of the penetrating hits table easy.
It's almost like you got lucky once and it skewed your impression of how easily these can take out your long fangs, which are pretty much its only threat.

The chances of getting a weapon destroyed result on it are the same chances of causing it to explode. Wouldn't sound so easy if you said "all you need to do is blow it up in one shot."


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 cowpow16 wrote:
With rerolls and 5 ml your chances arnt bad if you take 2 lfp you could potentially shoot down 4 flyers. add a quad gun and you potential flyer kill is 5.

Lets work this out shall we? All results rounded up.

10 ml hitting on 6s: 2 hit
8 ml rerolls on 6s: 1 hit. Net: 3 hits

Hull point removals on 4+: 2 HPs (ignoring pen results since it over complicates it)

5+ Invulnerable: 1 save from 2 HP removing hits.

So 480 points (2 LFPs, 2 RPs with divination) nets you on average (with rounding up) one hull point per turn off a 175pt flier. If I were the chaos player, I'd be begging you to do that.

I'm not known for my incredible skill in mathematics, so if I've done something wrong, please tell me

I'm not worried about the Chaos flyer as I intend to run a skyshield landing pad.... I know, but it seems like it will work perfectly. I would also dedicate lascannons to taking it down, the +1 to the damage chart would be nice.... Hopefully by the end of October, I will be able to finally field my SW army. Unfortunately, those in my gaming group will also be amassing new armies...

Pen doesn't really make it more complicated.
Initial Volley: 1.5 Misses, 1 Pen, 0.5 Glances
Invuln: 0.83 Pens, 0.42 Glances
Roll to Wreck/Splode: 0.28

So with 10 TL/ML you have ~2.8% of wrecking/sploding, and ~12.5% of taking out a single HP.

 Blaggard wrote:
Pen doesn't really make it more complicated.
Initial Volley: 1.5 Misses, 1 Pen, 0.5 Glances
Invuln: 0.83 Pens, 0.42 Glances
Roll to Wreck/Splode: 0.28

So with 10 TL/ML you have ~2.8% of wrecking/sploding, and ~12.5% of taking out a single HP.

Thank you for clearing up my math Blaggard. Again, this is drastically in the favour of the flier. Add in lascannons and the points ratio becomes even worse considering you can take 2.5 MLs for each LC. The key to taking down fliers isn't that lucky pen, it's glancing them to death. It's pretty sad, but I believe the 50pt Quadcannon has a better chance to strip HPs off than 5 ML long fangs with a Divination bitch.

Well, it also has It Will Not Die! so there's a chance that they'll then just recoup that HP. Nothing apart from taking a ADL w/ QG in the SW codex i can think off can reliably take it out.

 Blaggard wrote:
Well, it also has It Will Not Die! so there's a chance that they'll then just recoup that HP. Nothing apart from taking a ADL w/ QG in the SW codex i can think off can reliably take it out.

Hmmm... Maybe some MM shots... Something that will take it down quick or at least dissuade it from coming near, but in the end.... who knows... The ADL will fall to its flamer/no cover saves...

Take a bastion w/ QG? 25 points more, but then you can stick a guy up top to try and get him, with the LF inside.

I have been having significantly more luck against flyers.

One game it took 2 ml to take out a dakka jet and 2 melta guns to fry a storm talon.
So that's been my extent of flyers.

I prefer the Icarus over the quadgun. A Divination Priest with Chooser hits on a re-rollable 2+ with a very good change of doing significant damage. The quadgun often dooes nor more than a single glance vs. av12 flyers. In addition, the icarus also helps vs. Av13/14 tanks against those we usualy have to rely on melters,

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
Well, it also has It Will Not Die! so there's a chance that they'll then just recoup that HP. Nothing apart from taking a ADL w/ QG in the SW codex i can think off can reliably take it out.

Hmmm... Maybe some MM shots... Something that will take it down quick or at least dissuade it from coming near, but in the end.... who knows... The ADL will fall to its flamer/no cover saves...

I run 2-4 fliers in my regular ig lists. Multimeltas don't scare fliers. I find that I use them very aggressively since my opponent has to get rather lucky to do anything. I always have evasive manoeuvres too. The only time I pay defensively is when there are other fliers on the table. I just think space wolves really don't have an option other than to ignore the flier. Yeah you can get lucky and it's worth a try if there are no other targets around, but the math says don't bother.

 Griddlelol wrote:


I run 2-4 fliers in my regular ig lists. Multimeltas don't scare fliers. I find that I use them very aggressively since my opponent has to get rather lucky to do anything. I always have evasive manoeuvres too. The only time I pay defensively is when there are other fliers on the table. I just think space wolves really don't have an option other than to ignore the flier. Yeah you can get lucky and it's worth a try if there are no other targets around, but the math says don't bother.

I agree, the air is of no business to space wolves. We excel in so much out there, arguably has on of the best codexes in the game and people are complaining about the one and only thing we cant do perfect.
If you have nothing else to shoot at or if you need to walk with your heavy weaponry the go and shoot a flier just for fun like you could buy a lottery ticket at the supermarket. in other circumstances I would rather focus on killing all their troops and spread my own to make sure Im the only one with living troops to hold objectives in the end.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on blood claws. The 15 man blob with a wg and maybe an ic on top sounds scary on paper. I've never really had good experiences with blood claws but that was mainly in 5th when the codex had just come out. The ws3 seems to limit their targets although not drastically since there aren't many groups of models with ws5 or more.

I've had good luck with swiftclaw bikers. The changes 6th ed made to bikes makes them excellent platforms to assault from.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I've had good luck with swiftclaw bikers. The changes 6th ed made to bikes makes them excellent platforms to assault from.

I'd not considered bikes. It might not be an awful plan. They can add to the amount of things in my opponents face on turn one if I'm using drop pods but also get a sweet cover save. By turn two they can be in combat. Do you take a wg pack leader on a bike with them? 54pts for a naked leader seems extortionate.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on blood claws. The 15 man blob with a wg and maybe an ic on top sounds scary on paper. I've never really had good experiences with blood claws but that was mainly in 5th when the codex had just come out. The ws3 seems to limit their targets although not drastically since there aren't many groups of models with ws5 or more.

Looks scary, but its about as usefully as a bigger target. Only thing it does better it get shot more, less target saturation, and to make this unit usefull you have to sink in more points, plus if they lose their character they are boned because of the 12 inch rule of too stupid in the tooth to think properly. for about 2 units of bloods claws you have 3 units of grey hunters who with completely out shine them.

In my honest opinion and person use of them just a big hit me sign, fun to use and thats just about it.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
I've had good luck with swiftclaw bikers. The changes 6th ed made to bikes makes them excellent platforms to assault from.

I'd not considered bikes. It might not be an awful plan. They can add to the amount of things in my opponents face on turn one if I'm using drop pods but also get a sweet cover save. By turn two they can be in combat. Do you take a wg pack leader on a bike with them? 54pts for a naked leader seems extortionate.

cavalry does it better


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 Grey elder wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on blood claws. The 15 man blob with a wg and maybe an ic on top sounds scary on paper. I've never really had good experiences with blood claws but that was mainly in 5th when the codex had just come out. The ws3 seems to limit their targets although not drastically since there aren't many groups of models with ws5 or more.

Looks scary, but its about as usefully as a bigger target. Only thing it does better it get shot more, less target saturation, and to make this unit usefull you have to sink in more points, plus if they lose their character they are boned because of the 12 inch rule of too stupid in the tooth to think properly. for about 2 units of bloods claws you have 3 units of grey hunters who with completely out shine them.

In my honest opinion and person use of them just a big hit me sign, fun to use and thats just about it.

Im starting to agree, I really wanted claws to be good, but theyre hopeless in comparison, damn our amazing grey hunters

SlyasR wrote:
cavalry does it better

Do they? They are most costly, no cover save and slower. They do on the other hand hit much harder.

I have urge to test out three full max wolf (beast) squads of 15, they seem they actually have a decent pourpose fo walking list, cheap effective first wave that grants cover.
Peoples thoughts?

syypher wrote:
What do you guys do vs 5+ Flyers?

Allied IG, Aegis Line, Hyperios Platforms, etc.

 Grey elder wrote:
I have urge to test out three full max wolf (beast) squads of 15, they seem they actually have a decent pourpose fo walking list, cheap effective first wave that grants cover.
Peoples thoughts?

I do this with 2 ten-wolf units sometimes. the reason I dont stack 15 is because Im bad at maneuvering them and they tend to form a long tail as soon as you are going past the first kind of terrain you stumble upon.

but if you can make it work with 15 it would be even better. its perfect for taking down hiding heavy support infantry (remember that these bad boys can climb on charge so they can attack people on the floors above easily).

beware of charging things like purgation squads with psycannons or 20 necron warriors, they die directly and wont make it into combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

SlyasR wrote:
cavalry does it better

Do they? They are most costly, no cover save and slower. They do on the other hand hit much harder.

thunderwolf pro

gets more attacks, hits better
are harder to hit
S10-fists
rending for the rest of them
2 wounds so you wont lose an actual model giving many attacks in the first while

bike pro

can turbo boost so yeah they are quicker
quicker + their dodge save makes them survivable outside of battle
cheaper

I think its an even game until the thunderwolves bring it home with around the double amount of powerfist attacks, they are slapping around dreadknights deamons and everything with that.

Yeah with all the nurgle around in my local meta, the str:10 is just gravy.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'd not considered bikes. It might not be an awful plan. They can add to the amount of things in my opponents face on turn one if I'm using drop pods but also get a sweet cover save. By turn two they can be in combat. Do you take a wg pack leader on a bike with them? 54pts for a naked leader seems extortionate.

If your going to fork out 54 points, go and get a rune/wolf priest to lead em.
The priest makes their hand to hand attacks much more deadly.

What are people thinking for flyers for SW? Looks like FW is the only option... The caestus assault ram looks kinda like it would fit with a SW army. AV 13 flyer would be cool as well as a transport. The only real drawback is the real world $$$ cost lol