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If he plays Gunline. Tau has some more mobile options too, though most Tau players seem to be focused on what the gunline could offer.


To be honest, agaisnt wolves who are basically an assaulty gunline, I'd actually throw some of my more mobile options on the field and back off.


Anyway, expect large plates that ignore your armour and inflict instant death. Some of them may appear the moment you come in from reserves. Expect cover saves to be useless. Expect BS 3 units to hit on a 2+ with reroll. Expect lots of sniper shots. Expect to face hordes of shots if you assault anything (Tau can fire overwtch if any unit in 6 inches is assaulted, not just themselves) and expect some overwatch to come in at BS 2 or even more. Expect every shot to wound on a 4+, 3+ or 2+.

On the plus side for you, Land Raiders should survive well unless he brings some Melta, the super railguns are more or less gone. On the downside, the repalcement for the railguns fires 4 twin-linked strength 7 shots . . .

As cheesy as it is... I plan on running my long fangs on a skyshield landing pad... 4+ invol is essentially the same as the 4+ cover save that the ADL would offer... Fight cheese with cheese, I guess... hopefully TWC outflanking with storm shields should be able to make it through the initial interceptor shots to through down some JoTWW action by the two rune priests as described above...

Seems to me the Sons of Russ have their work cut out for them....

I find with the release of the chaos sm codex, long fangs are not long for this world. ADL no longer cuts it. So it's either get rid of the long fangs or upgrade to a landing pad.

IG allies has almost become a staple in my competitive space wolf lists. For 400pts you get a primaris psyker or Lord Commissar, vet squad and 1 squadron of 2 vendettas. Frees up the rune priest to still take LL and JotWW.

If you take rifleman in place of the long fangs, adl still works. AV12 with 4+ cover saves is pretty solid. If this is my option I put my GH in rhinos.

If I'm going long fangs for my fire support, I take drop pods for the grey hunters and drop them in.

That's my take on space wolves in 6th ed.

I play 1850.

I strongly agree. However it's disappointing that the fire base that made SW stand out has become a weak version of what other codices can bring. My predator is a more expensive, weaker version of what chaos/DA can bring, and my Rifleman is a weaker version of what GK can bring.
It's just rather disappointing to be honest. Although AV13 is much more survivable in a Heldrake meta than Long Fangs. Especially with a 4+ cover save.

Yeah, 2+armor/ invol saves are where it's at now... Too bad the SW termies are so expensive lol

Yeah, the long range firebase model of the Wolves is ironically somewhat outdated in this edition. Krak missiles just don't do it any more and the mix of plasma and Lascannon that does the trick makes Long Fangs cost almost twice as much as they used to. No organic anti-air hurts a fair bit too. So far Razorbacks seem to be the best anti-air option available.

Right now it seems that with Space Wolves the best option is to drop pod Dreadnoughts, Grey Hunters and Wolfguard in the other guy's face and shoot the heck out of him. If he hasn't charged you by the next turn you can then either assault or keep shooting.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Yeah, 2+armor/ invol saves are where it's at now... Too bad the SW termies are so expensive lol

SW terminators are cheaper if you don't go crazy on equipment. If you run them with a combi-weapon and a mix of power axes and mauls you have a great little shooting section that can also handle itself in cc against anything. Couple this with being able to take terminators as squad leaders and I think SW terminators are significantly better than other loyalist choices. With the obvious exception of vanilla assault terminators that are criminally under costed.

As for LFs, I totally agree. If you start kitting them out with guns that are going to make a difference then their price gets far too high, especially with heldrakes, riptides and colossi.

I was gonna have DE as my next army, but I did the math and SWs would cost me at least half as much if not more. So anyway, as a noob SW guy I have a few questions:

* Grey Hunters, what are the standard builds now? In mosts lists with 10 GH (No WG) I see 2 of the same special weapons (usually Melta), MotW, and a banner. Should I ever take a PW/PF?

* With challenges and Precision shots, is taking a Wolf Guard worth it anymore? With ATSKNF, GH's Ld doesn't seem as big of a deal as say, CSM. That and if I take a WG, I lose a special weapon, and while I can give the WG a combi-weapon its still only one shot.

*Rhinos or drop pods? I've had nothing but bad luck with Rhinos in my previous PA armies, they're either popped turn 1 and kill a couple of my unit or they're immobilized, in either case I just wasted 35 pts I could've used elsewhere.. The SW battleforce comes with a Drop pod so I know I'll be using it at least for my first couple games.

*Wolf Guard Termies. I've had experience with CSM termies. where they start out cheaper than loyalist but with worse weapons and end up costing a lot more to bring them up to par with vanilla TEQ,. Is this the same deal with Wolf Guard Termies?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I was gonna have DE as my next army, but I did the math and SWs would cost me at least half as much if not more. So anyway, as a noob SW guy I have a few questions:

* Grey Hunters, what are the standard builds now? In mosts lists with 10 GH (No WG) I see 2 of the same special weapons (usually Melta), MotW, and a banner. Should I ever take a PW/PF?

Mark of the Wulfen should be ample to handle any armor problems. Power weapons aren't really necessary.

* With challenges and Precision shots, is taking a Wolf Guard worth it anymore? With ATSKNF, GH's Ld doesn't seem as big of a deal as say, CSM. That and if I take a WG, I lose a special weapon, and while I can give the WG a combi-weapon its still only one shot.

You only lose the extra gun if you take a transport if you run 9 guys and a wolf guard. You can footslog a 11 man squad. WG mileage may vary, try putting them in terminator armor if you slog them.

*Wolf Guard Termies. I've had experience with CSM termies. where they start out cheaper than loyalist but with worse weapons and end up costing a lot more to bring them up to par with vanilla TEQ,. Is this the same deal with Wolf Guard Termies?

Basically. I'm not familiar with the Chaos Marine codex, but WG terminators get power weapons instead of fists with an initial discount of like 7 points. With fists, they're 43 which isn't that unreasonable considering you can cram WG Terminators with other SW units. The most expensive I'd go is taking the Assault Cannon or CML and no special CC weapon.

One more question, due to the new rules for Specialist Weapons like wolf claws and powerfists, how good does it sound if I run Wolf guard termies with both a wolf claw and a powerfist? its relatively cheap (15 pts or 48 pts for the whole termie) you get the +1 attack, and now you get to choose whether its more important getting the first strike or hitting hard.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
One more question, due to the new rules for Specialist Weapons like wolf claws and powerfists, how good does it sound if I run Wolf guard termies with both a wolf claw and a powerfist? its relatively cheap (15 pts or 48 pts for the whole termie) you get the +1 attack, and now you get to choose whether its more important getting the first strike or hitting hard.

It is great in blood claw units, for grey hunters you stil want to stay back and shoot a little more, so for them, you would like a CC+ shooting weapon

You never ever want dual claws

SlyasR wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
One more question, due to the new rules for Specialist Weapons like wolf claws and powerfists, how good does it sound if I run Wolf guard termies with both a wolf claw and a powerfist? its relatively cheap (15 pts or 48 pts for the whole termie) you get the +1 attack, and now you get to choose whether its more important getting the first strike or hitting hard.

It is great in blood claw units, for grey hunters you stil want to stay back and shoot a little more, so for them, you would like a CC+ shooting weapon

You never ever want dual claws

I was thinking about for a pure WG Termie unit, as stated above I'm not yet sold on putting WG with GH or Blood Claws since they are too easily sniped out with precision shots and/or nullified with challenges in assault. For pure termie units of most armies (with the exception of GK and their psycannons), I've always felt that Termies do their most damage in assault with any shooting in between being just a bonus. Hence why for a 5 man unit of WG Terminators I've been thinking of running them as so:

Wolf Claw/PF
Wolf Claw/PF
TH/SS
TH/SS
Assault Cannon/Power weapon

All in a drop pod = 320 pts

WG Terminators + Termie Rune Priest + Divination + GoI Librarian = Win (or Epic Points Sink Fail)

In my experience, the beat way to get them across the table is with the SM librarian...

Also, having a WG in with the GHs is awesome... Give the GHs a PF and then challenge the opponents character/sergeant... You may get a couple rounds of combat where you can slap the squad around with your unchallengable PF.... win...

Just some random thoughts...

are any of the SC HQ's viable?

The vanilla codex is calling. It says don't even bother with assault terminators SW. The ultramarines have them covered.

SW assault terminators are ridiculously over priced. Steer clear of them. However, their basic terminators with a combi-weapon are fantastic and cheaper than vanilla tac terminators, although stronger at shooting but weaker in assault.

The the poster above me: SW have some of the best HQ units in the game. The RP is an auto take, he's fantastic. The wolf priest is great too. Thunder wolf lord isn't terrible, but costs a lot of points.

What are ulrik and njal like?

Ulrik is pretty pointless unless you face down a lot of Nurgle or Bikes.

Njal is expensive, but pretty powerful. Lord of the Storm can be potentially game changing and his Runic Weapon shuts down powers on a 3+, which is nice. The bigger the game though, the more reasonable choice he would be.

The above poster summed it up. However I feel that Njal is difficult to use correctly. If he's not marching forward to get those storm effects into play, he's basically not getting his points worth. You could just take 2 normal Rune Priests.

However if he is used well he can be very strong for the 265(?) points.

What about Neal and a rune priest?

I've started running 7 GHs with WS in a DP and a TDAWG. It's a scoring unit you can put anywhere on the board, that is above average at shooting, and almost a top tier melee unit for one assault phase. TDAWG under standard is just brutal, it doesn't matter if he gets challenged out, just deny it and tank all the wounds. He is invulnerable to AP3 and below for one assault, and you're going to put out a ridiculous number of wounds for a basic Troops unit that phase. I've won combat against Fleshhounds and forced DI tests (the GHs were later wiped out, but they more than did their job as a speed bump), exterminated six man Wraith squads in two phases, wiped entire units of Gaunts (just make sure you park in terrain), etc. It's ridiculous how good of a melee unit GHs can become with clever positioning.

I leave them at 7 because I like the flexibility of matching the RP with different weapons load outs depending on what my match up is. If I'm facing horde, I know the Flamer/HF squad is going to die, if I'm facing elite, I don't want him in a plasma squad, etc Alternatively I park my RP in a blob in the backfield and twinlink my Manticore until it's time for the blob to ram into something. (or if playing FW I have the points for two RPs, one can just sacrifice himself to get good Jaws shots in, and the warlord hides in a blob and twinlinks earthshaker platforms instead)

Edit: the only sane way to run TDAWGs is Combi/PW. I run one HF/PW, as well (same points cost). A CML or AC has it's use too, but any CC upgrades are a waste of points. Free PWs is good enough for Pack Leaders, and it's good enough for Loganwing (which should be 85% PA anyway) I use Axes, because I like giving my squad free AP2, and he'll almost always make it to i1 under Standard (unless against something funky like a DLord)

 Griddlelol wrote:
The above poster summed it up. However I feel that Njal is difficult to use correctly. If he's not marching forward to get those storm effects into play, he's basically not getting his points worth. You could just take 2 normal Rune Priests.

However if he is used well he can be very strong for the 265(?) points.

I like Njal the most out of our named Characters (with Arjac comming in close on second place).

The issue I find, like you say is to get him into place for the storm effect and anti-psyker radius to take effect. This is usually solved by drop pods.

use 3-5 drop pods of GHs. Put Njal out in the middle of the board with 6-8 GH (depending on if you want WG or not). Pay for his terminator armour! put the other drop pod(s) comming turn 1 about 12 inch forward so you are up in your enemys face but not out of reach from support. on remaining turns keep your pods comming right in your enemys face. This has worked great for me at least, it might take some practise but its great.

for more support I have 1 or 2 units of 10-12 fenrisian wolves comming running (they are dirt cheap and they are fast to support your grey hunters in the front)

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

SlyasR wrote:

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

And AP4...

 Wilytank wrote:

SlyasR wrote:

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

And AP4...

Being S6 still kicks as with strong daemons out there, and my Njal has Once force weaponed off a dreadknight who charged him

SlyasR wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

SlyasR wrote:

remember that Njal has S6 in close combat due to force weapon (stave) according to FAQ

And AP4...

Being S6 still kicks as with strong daemons out there, and my Njal has Once force weaponed off a dreadknight who charged him

Runic weapons wound daemons on a 2+ anyway. So what?

Any thoughts on landraider variants that would suit SW? I know they are expensive point-wise, lascannons and melta are a threat, but so much of the game has gone to str 7 plasma... I think the change in 6th has made the landraider a mobile bunker instead of the delivery system it once was... Any thoughts?

I am looking to get 2 of them to run (also they will be my first airbrush project, after I practice on some land speeders lol)...

A guy on another thread JoTWW 2 riptides with the same shot so its Definitley worth a go, why would a tournament ban them? Just for being useful?

Word on the street is Space Wolves codex will be release sometime mid 2014. Possibility of a gargantuan wolf like MC and grey hunters to be nerfed. Thoughts?

If they bring out a mecha-wolf I think I'm done with SW. TWC I can just abide, but a giant grandma eating fenrisian wolf would be the last nail in the coffin.
I personally doubt they'll nerf GHs. It's more likely they'll buff other MEQ by lowing their cost to 14ppm like in the DA codex. Still 2014 is a long way away, and chances are the wolf MC thing are just hearsay based on the fact the previous 2 codices had MCs shoe horned in.

I think the Imperium Codexes aren't going to get many Giant mecha. They will instead focus on the Land Raiders and the Flyers.

An ability to take TWC as troops or at least scoring would be nice (similar to Pedro Kantor or Khan from C:SM)... discounts on landraiders would be cool too... My issue with LRs is that they cost real world $$$ and eat up a lot of points...