The Culture, effortlessly. The only question is whether a single ship would conquer the entire 40k universe by killing everything, or would the Mind find that too boring and engineer a more subtle change of leadership and eventual peace and happiness for the entire galaxy.
I don't think any of the other universes are as over-the-top, in general, as 40k, makes it hard for there to actually be any real opponents that could stand a chance. When you consider how big the galaxy is in 40k, with the Imperium and its +/- million planets, the untold billions of Guardsmen, the massive Imperial Navy, the Adeptus Astartes, Sororitas - that's just the Imperium on their own. When you start adding in 'nid Hive fleets (not splinters), the rampant, numberless Orkz, the Eldar & Dark Eldar, forces of Chaos & the Immaterium, the technologically brilliant Tau, Squats (huzzah!) and all the other races/species - don't think anyone else has a chance, frankly.
If I had to put down an opponent I think would win, then for a giggle I will be for the One Free Man - that's Gordon Freeman to you & me.
Sparks_Havelock wrote: Well if it's all of the races/species of the 40k universe vs., then I'd be amazed if another universe could even consider standing toe-to-toe with a universe that is filled with nothing but constant war.
A single Culture ship would do it effortlessly, and the only question is whether it would get bored of the whole thing before finishing the job. Really, 40k isn't even close to the high end of scifi power.
Fair enough (damn your eyes sir for slipping your post in whilst I was editting mine ), not particularly au fait with Iain Banks universe. But then does that not go too far in being over-the-top? 40k is ridiculously silly, I'm sure we all will be happy to admit, but it feels strangely justified in being as over the top as it is, but if one vessel from Iain Bank's universe can take out a whole galaxy, whose entire premise is for war, on it's own - isn't that too far?
Sparks_Havelock wrote: 40k is ridiculously silly, I'm sure we all will be happy to admit, but it feels strangely justified in being as over the top as it is, but if one vessel from Iain Bank's universe can take out a whole galaxy, whose entire premise is for war, on it's own - isn't that too far?
Not really, because "destroy the entire galaxy in an epic war" isn't the point of the books. The whole point is that civilization has created the ultimate technological utopia, and let's see what conflicts happen when you get to that point. It's hardly entire books full of a single ship running around conquering galaxies.
And of course the Culture is hardly the only civilization that would consider the 40k universe a bug in need of squishing, they're just my favorite. There are plenty of others that would consider an entire galaxy to be a shamefully tiny civilization.
All of 40k at once? None. Assuming this means all factions are at full power, that means the Imperium alone would have a full-power Emperor and his twenty Primarchs and their nigh-invincible Legiones Astartes and Legiones Custodes, countless ships and soldiers from the Imperial Army, the god-machines of the Titan Legions, all equipped with unimaginable technology recovered from the Golden Age of Technology. Chaos would have its four Powers, and endless legions of immortal Daemons. The Tyranids would have the endless nightmare hordes which have consumed entire galaxies. The Eldar Empire would have technology so advanced that it borders on magic. The Orks would be invincible. The Tau...well, never mind. The Necrons would be the same as the Eldar, in possession of technologies bordering on the magical.
None could, 40k is just to big. its like the tactics of the ig, you maybe strong and our attacks may do didly, but add it all up and we got a whole bunch of didly.
I am familiar with Dr. Who and i have to say I agree with Valerian on this one, even the daleks couldn't pull a job like this.
The 9th doctor posed a threat to a daleck with a gun that was a rough approximation of a lascannon at best and 9mm rounds penetrated the shield over the eye stalk. theres just no way even they could accomplish it.
He would just let the Daleks finish their reality bomb.
I remember at least one Overlord capable of time travel...he could just flash back and prevent the bomb from being made.
EDIT: Or the Daleks from existing in the first place.
LOL... the DR. would just sonic screwdriver the Overlord, and chuckle about silly toasters should not dabble in time travel, then eat a jelly baby. His race is call the TIMELORDS for a reason, and its universe vrs. universe.
Not even talking about them doing one person at a time...they built a bomb that used planets to power it, to destroy reality. REALITY, not small potatoes here with people shooting pistols at eyestalks...
(sorry buddy the Who universe wrote the book on time warfare , that would be like the Who universe getting in a who can shout heresy more compitition with the 40k universe..which the 40k universe would win easily.)
He would just let the Daleks finish their reality bomb.
I remember at least one Overlord capable of time travel...he could just flash back and prevent the bomb from being made.
EDIT: Or the Daleks from existing in the first place.
LOL... the DR. would just sonic screwdriver the Overlord, and chuckle about silly toasters should not dabble in time travel, then eat a jelly baby. His race is call the TIMELORDS for a reason, and its universe vrs. universe.
(sorry buddy the Who universe wrote the book on time warfare , that would be like the Who universe getting in a who can shout heresy more compitition with the 40k universe..which the 40k universe would win easily.)
That last part did not make sense to me
There's also the Stormlord, who cannot be beaten by anyone with a shred of logic since said Overlord is supposed to have complete mastery of logic.
Peregrine wrote: The Culture, effortlessly. The only question is whether a single ship would conquer the entire 40k universe by killing everything, or would the Mind find that too boring and engineer a more subtle change of leadership and eventual peace and happiness for the entire galaxy.
This.
Though there is a real danger that any given Mind might get stuck in an eternal loop of gravitas-jokes upon confronting the 40K-verse.
I would love to see a war between the Arachnids from Starship Troopers and the Tyranids though....a warrior bug race that has intelligence, versus a warrior bug race that has an overall hive-mind...
Dr. Who Universe simpy becuase it is on a bigger scale than the 40k, one Galaxy mythos Vs a multi Universe Mythos. Com e to think of it that also gives Marvelverse an edge.
I would love to see a war between the Arachnids from Starship Troopers and the Tyranids though....a warrior bug race that has intelligence, versus a warrior bug race that has an overall hive-mind...
Book or Movie? As the bugs were pretty different. Book was closer to nids' than the movie one, though all three are hive mindy.
I would love to see a war between the Arachnids from Starship Troopers and the Tyranids though....a warrior bug race that has intelligence, versus a warrior bug race that has an overall hive-mind...
Book or Movie? As the bugs were pretty different. Book was closer to nids' than the movie one, though all three are hive mindy.
Hmm....both would be pretty interesting...It's been a while since I read the book though
As it hasn't come up yet, gonna throw in the "obligatory" Goku option.
In seriousness though, its a toughie. Mass effects being debated in another thread but they're a likely choice. As for the who-verse id nominate the Weeping Angels. Also could think of several SCP's id like to see dropped into the 40k-verse for shiggles hehe. The problem is its an over the top verse played as a serious one, so it literaly becomes "well i have an ultimate weapon +1" then +2, +3 etc. Think the way to look at it is who else stupidly over the top and armoured by badass is there to do it? Id say assemble the likes of Duke nukem, serious sam, matt hazard etc, arm them to the teeth and throw them into the Imperium, see what happens.
That or Kamina and the Gurren Lagaan. Only other thing i can think of that takes "rule of cool" as one of the laws of reality.
Dc universe, green lantern corps would lay waste to fleets and titan legions alike.
On a side note the men in black universe could have a go if they elaborated on exactly what kind of space farring ships they possessed, i mean look at the noisy cricket, would blow the side of a landraider right open
I'd presume that there are many, many settings that have some sort of silly OTT superkiller weapon or character power. Hell, some versions of 40k have such things, too. Is this really a discussion worth having? Just feels like a game of "mine is longer!" to me.
amanita wrote:I guess you did say 'fictional' universes, because I was gonna say OUR universe has Chuck Norris.
I'm sorry, didn't you get the memo? Chuck Norris stopped being cool in 2009.
amanita wrote: I guess you did say 'fictional' universes, because I was gonna say OUR universe has Chuck Norris.
Yeah screw the rest of the verse, all we need is Chuck Norris One round house kick will knock the out the big E, then he'll know what can't move is all about
amanita wrote: I guess you did say 'fictional' universes, because I was gonna say OUR universe has Chuck Norris.
Yeah screw the rest of the verse, all we need is Chuck Norris One round house kick will knock the out the big E, then he'll know what can't move is all about
Star Trek (discounting the Qs) if they completely threw out all ethical conduct when engaging the war.
They could cause suns to go nova with relative ease - IIRC a single cloak ship could park inside a star and detonate it. Taking out Sol in such a manner would have a huge impact against the imperium.
Replicator Technology may be able to mass produce the extremely rare null material in 40K. Which would basically grant them near complete protection against the warp.
Despite the trek galaxy’s federation being relatively small in 40K terms, many alien civilization in their galaxy have a federation comparable level of technology. So it would be thousands of alien empires against 40K’s races.
Phasers would “vaporize” (cause them to flash red and disappear) space marines.
Teleporters: Would not be blocked by the gellar fields as 40K teleporters are. Whether or not normal 40K shields would work is debatable. This would go both ways as the trek ships couldn’t prevent space marines from boarding their ships. Trek teleporters are also much better and far more prevalent than 40K's.
Reliable non-warp FLS is a real bonus for anyone slugging it out against 40K forces. Also the trek universe could travel warp speed right up to the planet, whereas 40k space travel requires arriving outside large gravity wells. The trekkers would be able to hit planets and move on before any response was sent. Trek forces could never be pinned down into a fight or a land battle they didn't want.
The Federation would likely lose in a one on one against the imperium, but an allied trek universe against an allied 40K universe might carry the day.
Maybe comic book universes depending on how prevalent and powerful the super powered alien empires are - It becomes a numbers game. Depending on a handful, even thousands of super-powered, godlike entities would not work IMHO - there are multiple methods the imperium, eldar, necrons, hurd, chaos, and etc; could employ to neutralize targets like Superman, Goku, Galactus, Thor, Hulk, and etc.
Larry Niven's Known Space races, while they don't cover the whole galaxy, tend to be, well, intelligent (especially the puppeteers and the Protectors). And in interstellar warfare, intelligence is the only currency of value.
Admiral Valerian wrote: All of 40k at once? None. Assuming this means all factions are at full power, that means the Imperium alone would have a full-power Emperor and his twenty Primarchs and their nigh-invincible Legiones Astartes and Legiones Custodes, countless ships and soldiers from the Imperial Army, the god-machines of the Titan Legions, all equipped with unimaginable technology recovered from the Golden Age of Technology. Chaos would have its four Powers, and endless legions of immortal Daemons. The Tyranids would have the endless nightmare hordes which have consumed entire galaxies. The Eldar Empire would have technology so advanced that it borders on magic. The Orks would be invincible. The Tau...well, never mind. The Necrons would be the same as the Eldar, in possession of technologies bordering on the magical.
And when all of those things combined are weaker than a single ship they don't really mean anything. It's like saying that an ant colony at full power can fight off a nuclear weapon just because it has so many ants.
Seriously, an unarmed civilian ship in the Culture considers "able to destroy a planet" an insultingly low estimate of its firepower. And you're talking about a civilization with god-like AI running everything, battles fought in fractions of a second at insane FTL speeds, miniature ringworlds everywhere because planets aren't aesthetically pleasing enough to live on, and a "small, short war" involves almost a hundred million ships destroyed, and thousands of destroyed planets and planet-size space stations.
gh05tdemon wrote: None could, 40k is just to big. its like the tactics of the ig, you maybe strong and our attacks may do didly, but add it all up and we got a whole bunch of didly.
That just means you need a universe with decent industrial capacity and automated manufacturing. Once your automated factory ships start eating planets and turning them into warships the only question is whether you get bored of crushing such a pitiful opponent and leave to do something more interesting.
1) The Culture, as previously described.
2) The Who-n-verse, which quite frankly seems to end up being as ridiculous as 40k most of the time.
3) I hear 'Lexx' mentioned fairly often. I don't know, or understand that entirely though...
Halo's flood could do it. They are only as dangerous as the enemy they are fighting. As soon as an Space Marine strike force is consumed every flood form will know how to operate Astartes equipment, for instance, albeit very clumsily. As soon as they figure out warp travel... game over.
Yup, Culture would, due to the fact that they are simply in another league technologically. And sci fi literature has several similar post singularity civilizations, and there are too many to speak off.
However, most any videogame or movie universe would fail, due to scale. Star Trek has superior technology, but would still fail due to firepower disparity, and MASSIVELY skewed numbers. Their ability to supernova stars might actually cripple the imperium, but most factions wont particularly care about it, and in a straight fight the average 40k Warship wins, and so does the average trooper... Granted, that's probably because star trek fighters tend to be terrible actors that make space marines look tactically competent. Plus, it has being shown that replicators have limits, and certainly cant instantly produce spaceships, so attrition becomes and inssue.
SW, even with the EU would fall, as their tactics and technology are similar to the 40k, without the millennia of combat experience, the numbers, OR the complete lack of morals.
Halo universe does not stand a chance. Humans and the Covenant are both comparatively minor powers, numbers and technology wise. The Flood is the only real threat, but it does not really seem to be a bigger on that the Orcs, or the Tyranids.
I can't really think of any other game/movie universe that comes close. Babylon 5 I suppose? Earth and most of the new races would fall instantly. The Shadows/Vorlons are about as powerful as Necrons/Eldar respectfully, but much smaller in number, so not really.
However, most any other videogame or movie universe would fail, due to scale. Star Trek has suprerior technology, but would still fail due to firepower disparity, and MASSIVELY skewed numbers. Their ability to supernova stars might actually cripple the imperium, but most factions wont particularly care about it, and in a straight fight the average 40k Warship wins, and so does the average trooper... Granted, that's propably because star trek fighters tend to be terrible actors that make space marines look tactially compitent.
The Star Trek universe wins because they have Q. Numbers and technology is irrelevant to omnipotent beings.
However, most any other videogame or movie universe would fail, due to scale. Star Trek has suprerior technology, but would still fail due to firepower disparity, and MASSIVELY skewed numbers. Their ability to supernova stars might actually cripple the imperium, but most factions wont particularly care about it, and in a straight fight the average 40k Warship wins, and so does the average trooper... Granted, that's propably because star trek fighters tend to be terrible actors that make space marines look tactially compitent.
The Star Trek universe wins because they have Q. Numbers and technology is irrelevant to omnipotent beings.
That's optimistic. For one thing, they do seem to have SOME limitations. On the same scale, the 40k universe has several chaos gods, the emperor etc. And ofcourse bringing gods into the mix is a bit problematic for comparisons, as, you know, any universe that has an actual creator god wins.
It would be a matter of time and a matter of how many human lives the ruling Polity AI would judge worthy of saving and how high the sacrifices they would be willing to make, but their largest civilian AI are more than a match for Terra (and we can only guess what size their largest military AI are considering you never ever get to know of more than their existence in the books.)
It's definitely Marvel. Hell, Magneto could do the job alone. Force field? Catch the bullets in the air and write 'return to sender' on them? Use the non-ceramite portion of armor to crush the Space Marines? Necrons (bwahahahahaha)? Throw in Wolverine, Galactus, Ego (living planet), Thanos w/infinity gauntlet, Thor, Dr. Doom and Reed Richards working together (less likely than Orks uniting) and the 40k universe is screwed. Oh...wait... I forgot about the giant green monster in purple undies and his couple of relatives (Shulkie, Rhulk, A-Bomb, etc). 40k doesn't have a chance.
amanita wrote: I guess you did say 'fictional' universes, because I was gonna say OUR universe has Chuck Norris.
Yeah screw the rest of the verse, all we need is Chuck Norris One round house kick will knock the out the big E, then he'll know what can't move is all about
Ugh, it's like being in a middle school cafeteria
You know what they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen
timetowaste85 wrote: It's definitely Marvel. Hell, Magneto could do the job alone. Force field? Catch the bullets in the air and write 'return to sender' on them? Use the non-ceramite portion of armor to crush the Space Marines? Necrons (bwahahahahaha)? Throw in Wolverine, Galactus, Ego (living planet), Thanos w/infinity gauntlet, Thor, Dr. Doom and Reed Richards working together (less likely than Orks uniting) and the 40k universe is screwed. Oh...wait... I forgot about the giant green monster in purple undies and his couple of relatives (Shulkie, Rhulk, A-Bomb, etc). 40k doesn't have a chance.
Marvel is over the top indeed. Chaos could stand up to them if they corrupted the right people.
timetowaste85 wrote: It's definitely Marvel. Hell, Magneto could do the job alone. Force field? Catch the bullets in the air and write 'return to sender' on them? Use the non-ceramite portion of armor to crush the Space Marines? Necrons (bwahahahahaha)? Throw in Wolverine, Galactus, Ego (living planet), Thanos w/infinity gauntlet, Thor, Dr. Doom and Reed Richards working together (less likely than Orks uniting) and the 40k universe is screwed. Oh...wait... I forgot about the giant green monster in purple undies and his couple of relatives (Shulkie, Rhulk, A-Bomb, etc). 40k doesn't have a chance.
This raises a question. Would hulk become king of the orcs :O
timetowaste85 wrote: It's definitely Marvel. Hell, Magneto could do the job alone. Force field? Catch the bullets in the air and write 'return to sender' on them? Use the non-ceramite portion of armor to crush the Space Marines? Necrons (bwahahahahaha)? Throw in Wolverine, Galactus, Ego (living planet), Thanos w/infinity gauntlet, Thor, Dr. Doom and Reed Richards working together (less likely than Orks uniting) and the 40k universe is screwed. Oh...wait... I forgot about the giant green monster in purple undies and his couple of relatives (Shulkie, Rhulk, A-Bomb, etc). 40k doesn't have a chance.
Marvel is over the top indeed. Chaos could stand up to them if they corrupted the right people.
You're right. I forgot to add in the Sorceror Supreme. Dr. Strange, for anyone who doesn't recognize the title. Man-Thing, Clea, Wong and the rest of the Dr. Strange cast will also make short work of the daemons.
Actually im wondering why the hero options are lacking a lot of the villains could see the joker doing a good number, as well as the likes of mr.freeze, Darkseid, the assorted Lord of Chaos.
Probably Star Wars, mostly because I don't know many fictional Universes. But I could see Jedi matching wits with Eldar and stormtroopers massacring nids and Orks, if they got more accurate of course.
timetowaste85 wrote: It's definitely Marvel. Hell, Magneto could do the job alone. Force field? Catch the bullets in the air and write 'return to sender' on them? Use the non-ceramite portion of armor to crush the Space Marines? Necrons (bwahahahahaha)? Throw in Wolverine, Galactus, Ego (living planet), Thanos w/infinity gauntlet, Thor, Dr. Doom and Reed Richards working together (less likely than Orks uniting) and the 40k universe is screwed. Oh...wait... I forgot about the giant green monster in purple undies and his couple of relatives (Shulkie, Rhulk, A-Bomb, etc). 40k doesn't have a chance.
Marvel is over the top indeed. Chaos could stand up to them if they corrupted the right people.
You're right. I forgot to add in the Sorceror Supreme. Dr. Strange, for anyone who doesn't recognize the title. Man-Thing, Clea, Wong and the rest of the Dr. Strange cast will also make short work of the daemons.
Yeah...marvel is pretty over the top.
What if the 40K universe was at full power? Gods in Marvel? Hah, we happen to a man-god, a bug-god (which could be argued, I guess. I consider the Hive-Mind to be a god.)a dragon god, a war god, a blood god, a disease god, an excess and pleasure god, and a wizardy god. Got the Hulk? The idiot will probably just become king of the Orks, and worse than the Beast.
And then again, what of corruption? Primarchs, super-human beings that can kill krakens with a few blows, slug a god in the chin, and are descended from the genome of a living god, who opposes four of the most powerful gods every merely by thought, were corrupted by those same gods. One Primarch set the galaxy on fire, split the Imperium in half, and created a situation whre every day, BILLIONS die, BILLIONS ARE BORN, Hundreds of world are discovered/colonised, and there is only war. No universe has ever had that, IIRC.
The Culture obviously would defeat us, even though I only heard of them today.
Halo? Pff, the fact that we have so many gods, so many super-human beings, means that the Forerunners would instantly be wiped out. I mean, the pinnacle of their technology (Promethean Knights) could not defeat a lone, rough Spartan. Considering the Flood, they would easily be defeated. Gods and all. Nurgle would simply give them even worse diseases. Humans and Covenant would die of course. I don't know about the Precursors though...
Star Wars? Yeah, they have a galaxy ruling empire, but again, 40K has the fething gods, and the fething imperial guard. Papa Nurgle would probably just give them the Zombie Plague.
Of course that depends on your universe having nonexistent medical technology like 40k. A more advanced civilization that isn't paranoid about innovation, like Star Wars, would have much better defenses against disease and the ruthlessness to just sterilize every planet from orbit once it became clear that all they'd be conquering would be a corpse-filled wasteland anyway.
Good call. Marvel has a similar thing called 'The Phalanx'. Turns metal to Phalanx, same with people. Always adapts, and has near instantaneous regen, plus the ability to change form. So those guys arguing against marvel...keep it up. 40k really is out of its league.
The issue with the borg is that while they are ridiculous against the energy based weapons prevalent in the star trek universe when faced with kinetics they falter quickly.... and if the borg convert a few orks into borg, then more orks show up to take their place and the borg can be beaten if you bash em enough.
While the culture are certainly powerful, I feel like they are too bound up in morals to be able to wipe out the warhammer universe. Heck, I can see some sort of chaos invasion where they just warp into Minds and spreads some sort of techno virus to make some sort of obliterator Mind with no compunction to just wipe out the other side. The IoM certainly can be roasted easily enough but can you really destroy something like corruption or evil which by all accounts still can occur even in The Cultured society?
Heck I'd love to read some hybrid 40k + The Culture universe where the Minds try to deal with psykers lol. Random minder robots probably aren't gonna cut it vs the irrational or the warp bound illogic that is something like Tzeentch. Sanity is for the weak!
sudojoe wrote: While the culture are certainly powerful, I feel like they are too bound up in morals to be able to wipe out the warhammer universe.
You must have missed the part where there is a significant element of the Culture that believes in "freedom" in the American sense: you will accept our gift of "freedom" and the all of the changes we will make to modify your society to be the way we think it should be, or we'll just shoot your leadership and impose a new government anyway. And those Minds aren't above getting their hands dirty.
Heck, I can see some sort of chaos invasion where they just warp into Minds and spreads some sort of techno virus to make some sort of obliterator Mind with no compunction to just wipe out the other side. The IoM certainly can be roasted easily enough but can you really destroy something like corruption or evil which by all accounts still can occur even in The Cultured society?
How do you corrupt a god-like AI that already has more power than anything you can offer it, and only bothers to stick around in the physical universe out of a sense of duty to be a morally superior being and help the poor unfortunates around it that aren't lucky enough to be a Mind?
Heck I'd love to read some hybrid 40k + The Culture universe where the Minds try to deal with psykers lol. Random minder robots probably aren't gonna cut it vs the irrational or the warp bound illogic that is something like Tzeentch. Sanity is for the weak!
Given that the average Mind's idea of light entertainment is simulating entire universes just to see what happens I suspect that poor Tzeentch would be out-manipulated and left wondering WTF happened.
Didn't the Anti-Monitor from the DC Universe destroy entire realities? Can't help but think he could do it.
Anybody who collects the Infinity Gems and the Gauntlet basically becomes all-powerful in the Marvel Universe, so - whoever gets those together would be invincible.
On a planet by planet basis, Unicron from the Transformers might have a shot, since only the Matrix can destroy him.
I don't know a lot about the Culture, but I'm tipping they aren't equipped for sorcery and magic. I think the Warp and it's denizens might be a nasty little surprise for them.
have to go Kaldor on this one, I dont think alot of the scifi universes are equiped to deal with Sorcery and magic. I mean just one Alpha plus Psyker would steam a lot of the universes (ie being able to snap titans in two or destroy planets)
The Bolo universe. The huge numbers of gigantic mega tanks as big or bigger then titans with planet crushing firepower would be more then a match for the 40k Universe.
I was going to suggest mass effect, but hell no. The reapers would have a hell of a fright if they turned up in the 40k universe.
Many of the common suggestions get rolled by 40k. Star wars, star trek, Halo all have a smaller setting and are less focused on war. There would be no competition.
The Culture flattens everything so 40k is no problem for them. Nothing is.
Mass Effect doesn't have the scale of power that 40k does, and is overall somewhat less advanced.
Remember, they're relying on kinetic based weapons almost exclusively; almost all their tech is completely defenseless against energy weapons. A Kinetic Barrier won't stop a lance, lasgun, lascannon or so on. Amusingly, the Guard would enjoy higher success rate against a ME based force than Marines.
The Reapers are a different matter however, but would still be of only "moderate" concern compared to the Tyranids and Chaos. The Imperium faces extinction-level foes on a regular basis, it's a militarized setting like few others, Mass Effect is not; the reapers attacked a galaxy enjoying relative peace, with only humanity really actively building up their military, but it was still tiny, the Imperium of Man exists in perpetual war, to say nothing of the other races. It is not a setting which would roll out the welcome mat for the Reapers.
One setting I'd give good odds to is the Dr. Who universe; the series isn't focused on warfare, but the enormous scale of the setting, and penchant of some of the more pepperpot-looking races to shoot first, shoot second, shoot a third time, and then destroy all of reality just to be sure is rather, well, problematic.
Though for all we know, the Emperor is the 12th Doctor.
I have to throw in a vote for Marvel/DC steamrolling 40k. When you figure that there are singular entities within the Marvel Universe, particularly, that are capable of altering reality on a galactic scale, and additionally possess the freedom to act within the material plane, 40k looks like a sad panda.
As a side note, knowing nothing about 'the Culture', could Marvel and/or DC pose a credible threat to them?
I'd bet on Star Wars, actually, they're one of the few universes that has fleets on scale with some of the stuff that appears in 40k, and Jedi in combat with Space Marines would be fairly one-sided due to advantages of precognition and lightsabers (probably AP1 or 2).
However, most any other videogame or movie universe would fail, due to scale. Star Trek has suprerior technology, but would still fail due to firepower disparity, and MASSIVELY skewed numbers. Their ability to supernova stars might actually cripple the imperium, but most factions wont particularly care about it, and in a straight fight the average 40k Warship wins, and so does the average trooper... Granted, that's propably because star trek fighters tend to be terrible actors that make space marines look tactially compitent.
The Star Trek universe wins because they have Q. Numbers and technology is irrelevant to omnipotent beings.
That's optimistic. For one thing, they do seem to have SOME limitations. On the same scale, the 40k universe has several chaos gods, the emperor etc. And ofcourse bringing gods into the mix is a bit problematic for comparisons, as, you know, any universe that has an actual creator god wins.
At-will time travel alone means the Q are more powerful than anything in the 40k Universe, let alone the ability to teleport Starships across the Galaxy instantaneously.
I'd say the Honorverse could give the IoM a run for its money. pinpoint accurate missiles at 3-4 light minutes, real time FTL communication, proper FTL Propulsion, the starships manipulate gravity to protect themselves, and a small power (3 or so solar systems) managed to put into service 200 plus super dreadnaughts (4+ km long, 8+ million tons a piece).
Just thinking about it, every single piece of 40kIoM kit would be totally outclassed, probably only the necrons would stand a chance technology wise, the tyranids would be so much dead meat its unreal. and why would that be so? Honorverse missile duels don't have hundreds, or even thousands of missiles exchanged, they have tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of missiles fired in each volley (every 17+ seconds) and they are ship killers as well
At-will time travel alone means the Q are more powerful than anything in the 40k Universe, let alone the ability to teleport Starships across the Galaxy instantaneously.
Maybe. But if Captain Picard can outsmart him/morally blackmail him, so can any given Eldar, Necron Lord, Space Marine with 200+ years life experience, etc.., etc.. .
Same really applies to a lot of the uber-powerful Marvel/DC stuff, etc.. . They have these big, bad ultimate bad-asses, but they keep getting put into place by things/beings of comparatively mundane power (Batman?). If that is true, they can likewise be beaten by things in the 40k-verse.
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AnomanderRake wrote: I'd bet on Star Wars, actually, they're one of the few universes that has fleets on scale with some of the stuff that appears in 40k, and Jedi in combat with Space Marines would be fairly one-sided due to advantages of precognition and lightsabers (probably AP1 or 2).
Not really.
If Boba Fett can (nearly) pwn Obi-Wan (Episode 2), how much chance does he stand against a Space Marine? Or 10?
None at all.
Really, if the Star Wars Empire can exterminate the Jedi with rag-tag Bounty Hunters, Clone Troopers and comic-relief droid-soldiers (and they did), so can the 40K Imperium with the various armies at its disposal.
At-will time travel alone means the Q are more powerful than anything in the 40k Universe, let alone the ability to teleport Starships across the Galaxy instantaneously.
Maybe. But if Captain Picard can outsmart him/morally blackmail him, so can any given Eldar, Necron Lord, Space Marine with 200+ years life experience, etc.., etc.. .
There's more than 1 Q. If the Q Continuum wants to destroy the 40k Universe, they will.
He would just let the Daleks finish their reality bomb.
I remember at least one Overlord capable of time travel...he could just flash back and prevent the bomb from being made.
EDIT: Or the Daleks from existing in the first place.
LOL... the DR. would just sonic screwdriver the Overlord, and chuckle about silly toasters should not dabble in time travel, then eat a jelly baby. His race is call the TIMELORDS for a reason, and its universe vrs. universe.
(sorry buddy the Who universe wrote the book on time warfare , that would be like the Who universe getting in a who can shout heresy more compitition with the 40k universe..which the 40k universe would win easily.)
That last part did not make sense to me
There's also the Stormlord, who cannot be beaten by anyone with a shred of logic since said Overlord is supposed to have complete mastery of logic.
Hence why he would lose to then Doctor because the Doctor constantly acts in what most species consider an illogical manner.
More importantly You can't beat the Doctor thats the point.
A universe where the most basic of units is the size of a Warhound Titan. Perhaps not the same firepower, but they can be produced in about 3 seconds by a factory. The biggest of units are kilometer tall robots with giant lasers and enormous landcrawling battleships. An army involving hundereds of these units can be created within a few hours on any planet in the galaxy. Resources are not a factor, as they draw matter straight from the planet itself, and can even convert energy into matter if necessary.
Supreme Commander's scale is ridicoulus and no other fictional universe can defeat them in open warfare.
There's limited time travel, if I remember right. At least as far as 'freezing time' goes.
One thing I wasn't to sure on is quite the scale of SupCom, I would have thought the tier1 tanks wouldn't be much larger than the size of a normal tank.
Admittedly, that leaves things like Collosii being titan sized, but still...
Best case scenario for 40k, the SupCom forces act like scaled up metal tyranids. Which to be honest, isn't that great a scenario.
It's a bit like the culture in a way, the supcom universe is almost post-scarcity. They take mass, can turn it into whatever, eg factories that can construct more factories that can construct soldiers.
Vor: The Maelstrom has one of the most rediculous universes I have ever seen. Its an older model game no longer in production that was made by fasa in the 90's.
It involved worlds being sucked into an irreverible death orbit in which the planets slowly are sucked into the black hole known as the Maw which is in the center. The Maw eats the worlds, and none can servive. Each race fights each other for resources but inevitably will be destroyed.
Pretty sick. Awesome artwork and models too. Check it out. Oddly enough each year a few friends of mine and I get together to play it again. Wish it was still around. All the models can still be purchased and are now made by Iron Wind Metals.
Fictional ? God would destroy a universe if needbe. Fail that science would demand all the planets to be sucked back together from the big bang or a giant blackhole or the spice girls, scary spice could take on 10 abandons singlehandedly!
Engine of War wrote: The Bolo universe. The huge numbers of gigantic mega tanks as big or bigger then titans with planet crushing firepower would be more then a match for the 40k Universe.
As much as I like the Bolo universe, and giant tanks, I think 40k would crush them. Bolos are basically playing the same game as the titan legions, just in tank form, not giant walkers. They might have an edge in technology, but are going to be massively outnumbered by the IoM alone, not counting the xenos. Hellbores are just mega plasma guns, and infinite repeaters are comparable to heavy bolters. Depending on the mark, you could probably field one in an apocalypse game without much trouble.
Engine of War wrote: The Bolo universe. The huge numbers of gigantic mega tanks as big or bigger then titans with planet crushing firepower would be more then a match for the 40k Universe.
As much as I like the Bolo universe, and giant tanks, I think 40k would crush them. Bolos are basically playing the same game as the titan legions, just in tank form, not giant walkers. They might have an edge in technology, but are going to be massively outnumbered by the IoM alone, not counting the xenos. Hellbores are just mega plasma guns, and infinite repeaters are comparable to heavy bolters. Depending on the mark, you could probably field one in an apocalypse game without much trouble.
While I agree the Dinochrome brigade would have issues, Bolo's are what Titan's want to be when they grow up. Early Mark 20s would be even match to any titan, the late Mark 30s would curb stop titans and then start smacking the Mechanicus fleet around in orbit.
The problem when compairing different universes is that what might be a kickass weapon in one universe might be a steaming pile in another. Lets use the lasgun, Now this is taken from Factpile becuase they get alot of 40k vs matches there.
Eisenhorn Omnibus, page 483:
“I fired my laspistol, powering shot after shot at him, driving him backwards. His gold-chest battle suit, which gave his shrivelled frame the bulk and frame and proportions of a Space Marine, absorbed or deflected the impacts, but the sheer force knocked him back several paces.”
A) The man in the suit is a withered old Witch Hunter, who whilst receiving the benefit of the suits augmented strength, is relatively perhaps not the best candidate to wear Astartes gear in comparison to half a ton of naked Space Marine. Kind of obvious, but you need it spelled out for you.
B) Assuming that the old man weighs somewhere in the average 100kg range – for someone capable of wearing a two and a half meter tall suit without collapsing under their own weight – then coupled with the added tonnage of the suit itself, the Las-Pistol is capable of physically forcing (as the quote implies) 1.1 tons of mass at a distance of three meters; assuming of course that we’re talking about Space Marine sized paces.
Which means that a mass-less, photon based beam form the standard Imperial sidearm is capable of exerting 3300 newtons of force; in comparison a .50 caliber sniper rifle round generates only 20.59 newtons, it takes 700 newtons to lift a man off his feet and throw him, and the Gauss Cannon (the heaviest infantry operated anti-vehicle projectile weapon in the UNSC) is only responsible for less than a thousand newtons.
C) Last, and most importantly, he survived. Said beams, regardless of their imparted force and energy, were being deflected harmlessly off his suit; which when you think about the Las-Pistols ability to flash boil meter long Fish submerged in cold sea water, is incredibly impressive.
———-
“Uriel turned to the sheltering Ultramarines and shouted, ‘Follow me!’ – A lasbolt struck him square in the chest. Uriel staggered, but did not fall, the eagle at the centre of his breastplate running molten. Chaplain Clausel rose to his feet.’
This is the only mention of Lasgun melting I could find, which is bizarre because the actual impact only melts the Eagle emblem itself, and nothing else (the rest of the time it only scores, or blackens the paint).
First of all, laser weapons (as I’ve demonstrated) generate a lot of elastic force upon impact, thousands of newtons in fact from a Las-Pistol alone, so this shouldn’t come as a surprise that it causes him to stagger.
Secondly, we have no idea what the Emblem itself is made of, therefore we can almost any material density from silicon to industrial steel and still not ascertain an accurate answer. However, let’s assume that the Emblem is made of Iron and has a rectangular dimension of 30 cm x100 cm x1 cm for a total volume of 3000 cm^3; then at a density of 7.874 gram per cubic centimeter, the Emblem would have a mass of approximately 23.622 kg. The energy required to melt iron (heat it from 150K to melting point and then add latent heat of fusion) is roughly 1.28 MJ/kg, therefore the energy required to melt the entire emblem would be equal to 30.236 megajoules. Of course this is merely a low end that doesn’t take into account ablation, chemical impurities and other factors that would decrease the overall value.
Now that is a spicy meatball. In comparison, here are the listed energy ratings of the following weapons and rounds per use:
Of course, one should note that the damage mechanism between laser, kinetic and explosive weaponry is not uniform. Therefore a high megajoule laser, whilst capable of cremating a human alive, will not necessarily penetrate tank armor (although it would turn large portions to slag) due to the noted inefficiencies in both kinetic impacts and thermal heating. Laser weapons such as the Lasgun usually generate brief high-energy pulses in large quantities, so a single megajoule delivered as a laser pulse is roughly the same energy as 200g of high explosive, and has the same basic effect on a target.
Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
Give the green lantern ring, a weapon fueled by imagination, will power and intelligence to the batman.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
Give the green lantern ring, a weapon fueled by imagination, will power and intelligence to the batman.
Yes, but the Green Lantern will get his ass kicked by the Imperial Fists every time.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
Give the green lantern ring, a weapon fueled by imagination, will power and intelligence to the batman.
And then kill Batman's girlfriend and get a free 5 years of Batman doing nothing but growing a beard and practising a limp.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
We're talking the Marvel Universe: that isn't JUST Captain America, Iron Man, or Punisher. That's those three, ALL the X-Men, the Shi'Ar Empire, the Skrull Empire, the Kree Empire, Annihilus and his Annihilation Wave, the full compliment of Sentinels, the rest of the Avengers, Galactus, Ego, Thanos, Phalanx, Magneto, Juggernaut (who can't be harmed AT ALL physically), Dr. Strange with Clea, Mordo and Dormammu, Doom with his army of Doom Bots...do you want me to go on? Get your own "mumbo jumbo" out of here. 40k is fethed. Oh yeah...did I mention PHOENIX? She eats stars. Stars! Despite the jokes about her, she has only died a couple times, but she ALWAYS comes back. Mumbo jumbo indeed.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
Now imagine a warship that considers "able to destroy planets" an insultingly low estimate of its firepower. Now imagine it being controlled by a god-like AI that fights entire fleet battles (at high FTL speeds) in small fractions of a second. Now imagine a civilization that builds ringworlds to live on because planets are so aesthetically unappealing, and can therefore build these ships in obscene quantities. So, imagine one of these planet-killing god warships for every member of the Imperial Guard (if they'd ever do something as inelegant as that).
Oh wait, I lied about one thing there: the ship isn't even good enough to be considered a warship, it's just a civilian transport. 40k is screwed.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
We're talking the Marvel Universe: that isn't JUST Captain America, Iron Man, or Punisher. That's those three, ALL the X-Men, the Shi'Ar Empire, the Skrull Empire, the Kree Empire, Annihilus and his Annihilation Wave, the full compliment of Sentinels, the rest of the Avengers, Galactus, Ego, Thanos, Phalanx, Magneto, Juggernaut (who can't be harmed AT ALL physically), Dr. Strange with Clea, Mordo and Dormammu, Doom with his army of Doom Bots...do you want me to go on? Get your own "mumbo jumbo" out of here. 40k is fethed. Oh yeah...did I mention PHOENIX? She eats stars. Stars! Despite the jokes about her, she has only died a couple times, but she ALWAYS comes back. Mumbo jumbo indeed.
And then imagine the quantities of Gods of the 40K universe. I can't even list half of them straight off my head. Alright...
Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, The Hive Mind (IMHO), The Emperor, The Void Dragon, Khaine, Gork, Mork, The Nightbringer, the Deceiver... And the Omnissiah.
"It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor of Mankind has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the vast Imperium of Man for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day so that he may never truly die.Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in His name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever-vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat to humanity from aliens, heretics, mutants -- and far, far worse. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."
After a bit of looking, I also Found Malal. It has warriors that are dedicated to slaying other chaotic servants, possibly some of the most badass things in the universe, all upon it's whim. Everything is it's enemy.
The only thing, IMHO, thjat could oppose 40k is the Culture. Star Wars is owned, Halo is owned... Yeah. Supreme Commander is also owned.
Also, you seem to forget the measures the Imperium would go to. It doesn't matter that there are untold billions of guardsmen, there are many more untold billions of humans. I imagine a third of them would be conscripted for the epic war, and then you'd probably have more space marine chapters being created, as well. With such a situation, The High Lords of Terra would go to any extent. The full might of the Grey Knights, the SOB, the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Inquisition, The Deathwatch, the Ordo Assassinorum, the PDF (there would be no need, because all of the 40K danger is gone.)
Then, the Orks. They manufacture walkers that have the firepower to obliterate continents, and then they are never truly wiped out. If one was to dump an ork Horde (say about a billion?) on a planet inhabited by the enemy, they would never be exterminated. Even if they did not immediately annihilate the planet, there would be MORE because of their spores. They also happen to be based off Australians.
The Dark/Eldar would conduct hit and run attacks on the enemy, devastating them even further. However, if they launched an attack on the other universe, they would have no Webway. Hmm.
Necrons would raise every tomb world, and probably have even more World Engines online. They would give Necrodermis to the IOM, allowing them to have titans that regenerate themselves after time. The C'Tan would be awesome to see.
Chaos Space Marines and Daemons would all ally, and Malak would be there as well. They would just unleash a tide of devastation, as the Emperor would allow the Chaos Gods into reality, and then there would be no saving the universe. The heightened emotions of the IOM (fear, hatred, courage) would give the chaos gods a high. The Space Marines and the Cahos Space Marines together would be terrifying.
Tau? To be honest... they won't do much. They may give some nice tech.
Then Nids. With everybody goen to fight the war, they'll eat all the planets, and then come. And own.
The problem that 40k would have with Marvel Universe is not lack of firepower. It's lack of OTT science, super innovative thinking and milestone breakthroughs made in two days time by a single person.
There were threats that no brute force, no magic, no bullets and no energy weapons could defeat. They always had to be dealt with using some super complicated virus (computer based or organic) that ruined the threat.
It's no coincidence that half of the heroes are super brainiacs, god-level scientists and have access to laboratories that can analyse everything.
Wh40k solves problem by: prayer (optional), hitting, shooting, zapping and throwing more bodies at it. Innovation probably isn't even a word.
Entities that are energy sponges, consume all matter and create autonomous nano-bots, survive any level of radiation / open space and are AI based would have no counter in any of the wh40k races.
Even Necrons don't have the likes of Reed Richards or Bruce Banner.
Legion of Flame wrote: Try me. What fictional universe could defeat 40k in a universe-on-universe battle?
Only the universe that is more ridiculously powerful or have heroes that have plot armor bigger than Imperial forces.
Gurren Lagan comes in mind, I mean how can you defeat a robot that is big as half of universe?
Marvel universe because it's full of ridiculously powerful Mary Sues who could probably kill Chaos Gods.
I don't know about the others, but if we take all other "normal" universes ( as normal as having a bit of reality like Star Wars, Star Trek, Halo and yes Warhammer 40.000 fits there too ) there really isn't one that can match 40k, 40k is simply too powerful.
No one so far has mentioned the Xeelee from Stephen Baxter's Xeelee Sequence.
In terms of sheer resources and technological ability the Culture isn't even in their league. They are able to engineer galactic-scale megastructures , which means that the entire Milky Way could be rendered down for building materials if they felt like it...
Please, Starcraft would have a chance, Star Wars would have a chance, the marvel or dc universe would have a chance (and probably own face), perhaps mass effect. The 40k universe isn't all that powerful, and the legion starters are not nigh invincible.
Culture cannot fight against Chaos Gods, in the end all AI and humanoids would be corrupted and possessed. 40k wins again.
Sure they can.
That is what the Culture excels at.. setting it's enemies against each other and have them annihilate each other (or join the Culture in peaceful co-existence) without anyone ever knowing the Culture was ever there, much less manipulating behind the scenes.
And it sure as hell doesn't take The Culture-level mastery of manipulation to set the Chaos factions/Gods against each other.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Imagine Captain America (on steroids) wearing a suit of Iron Man armor carrying an arsenal that would make the Punisher gak himself. Then multiply him by million. Only then will you have a very slight inkling of a small tip of an iceburg that the other universes are up against.
Straight up war, 40K is going to win. Hell, the IoM is going to win by themselves. Get the mumbo jumbo out of here. Were talking a shooting war.
Now imagine a warship that considers "able to destroy planets" an insultingly low estimate of its firepower. Now imagine it being controlled by a god-like AI that fights entire fleet battles (at high FTL speeds) in small fractions of a second. Now imagine a civilization that builds ringworlds to live on because planets are so aesthetically unappealing, and can therefore build these ships in obscene quantities. So, imagine one of these planet-killing god warships for every member of the Imperial Guard (if they'd ever do something as inelegant as that).
Oh wait, I lied about one thing there: the ship isn't even good enough to be considered a warship, it's just a civilian transport. 40k is screwed.
Sure, now imagine the Culture riven by internal conflict as Chaos Daemons possess and corrupt them.
That is what the Culture excels at.. setting it's enemies against each other and have them annihilate each other (or join the Culture in peaceful co-existence) without anyone ever knowing the Culture was ever there, much less manipulating behind the scenes.
And it sure as hell doesn't take The Culture-level mastery of manipulation to set the Chaos factions/Gods against each other.
I am pretty sure Chaos Gods are not that stupid to let mere mortals manipulate them against each-other, they were after all able to manipulate Primarchs and Eldar who are one of the most powerful and prosperous beings in 40k universe.
Besides, Chaos can corrupt machines as well as mortal flesh. They generate enormous Warp storm and corrupt everything inside, machine and flesh. Even in all out war Culture and everyone else would lose because no matter how much they throw at Chaos they would just made it stronger. In the end Chaos would win even against hem.
In the end Culture would become Chaos, all it's machines and living beings, because no technology can fight against Chaos magic ( just ask Death Guard for that ).
I'd say 40k would lose to a number, it has a lot of flaws.
Emperor dies- No more Imperium, no more warp travel for Imperial forces.
Warp closed- No more Chaos, no 40k psychic powers, no more warp travel. (Webway might also cease to function).
Space Marine in Terminator armour knocked off his feet- Can't get up.
Space Marine in Power armour- Needs to roll to the front to get up, if back pack is damaged Power Armour powers down, if ruptured back pack blows up killing everything within X distance.
Kill the humans- Chaos gets weaker.
Other than the Dark/Eldar every other race has slow transportation between battle fields. Chances are the Eldar would retreat to the Webway and stay there til its over with.
40k is also full of idiots who fail to understand that they merely need to fire a 2nd shot a split second later at anything with a void shield. They drop after being hit with a Titan weapon. They need to re-established after that and they also don't protect if anything gets within the shield itself.
Given 40k psychic powers are a mutation related thing as well then 40k powers can be turned off by anything which can manipulate the area, Force Users, Marvel Psychics, Magic Users, Nanotech, etc.
If someone protected Magneto from energy attacks (Las weapons) then he could easily defeat most of the Imperium alone.
That is what the Culture excels at.. setting it's enemies against each other and have them annihilate each other (or join the Culture in peaceful co-existence) without anyone ever knowing the Culture was ever there, much less manipulating behind the scenes.
And it sure as hell doesn't take The Culture-level mastery of manipulation to set the Chaos factions/Gods against each other.
I am pretty sure Chaos Gods are not that stupid to let mere mortals manipulate them against each-other, they were after all able to manipulate Primarchs and Eldar who are one of the most powerful and prosperous beings in 40k universe.
Well, the Culture isn't mere mortals. And the combined intelligence of the Eldar race is mere child's play to the Culture. It could probably identify the sum of all of Tzeentch schemes in complete detail with all relevent outcomes (including those created/including temporal/warp-related paradoxes) in the history of 40K in mere nano-seconds.
The Culture also is highly-efficient at purging internal corruption. If organisations such as the Grey Knights manage to stay uncorrupted through staunch vigilance, then so can the Culture.
Finally, the Culture excels rather well at fighting proxy-wars. It might be a mystery in 40K who "engineered" the Tau, but a civilization such as the Tau, with some in-build resilience to Chaos Corruption, seems like an obvious ploy a Culture Mind could think of as one approach to test the waters against an enemy like Chaos (as well as probably another 10 layers of safeguard engineered into the galactic history, their genetic makeup, whatever,, who would all annihilate the Tau, if it doesn't work out as planned).
And, as noted, the Culture isn't the biggest fish in the pond, as shown most notably with Excession
Spoiler:
The Excession of the title is a perfect black-body sphere that appears mysteriously on the edge of Culture space, appears to be older than the Universe itself and resists the attempts of the Culture and technologically equivalent societies (notably the Zetetic Elench) to probe it.
[...]
The book's epilogue reveals that the Excession is a sentient entity which is currently acting as a bridge for a procession of even higher beings which travel between universes. It also assesses whether the species and societies it encounters are suitable to be enlightened about some unknown further existence beyond the Universe. As a result of events in the story the Excession concludes that the civilisations it has encountered in our universe are not ready for this enlightenment and moves on so that it will not cause any further disturbance, hence its disappearance at the end of the book. It also takes the name given to it by the Culture – Excession – as its own.
Me for the really random barely known reference
The universe of Simon R Green
They had access to a weapon called the deplorable end. It was held outside of reality and could be pointed at an entire universe. They universe was then destroyed.
Or just pull things from the deathstalker era like Shub, sleepers, transmutation engines, survivors of the madness maze. They would tear through 40K like butter.
SkyD wrote: I'd say 40k would lose to a number, it has a lot of flaws.
Emperor dies- No more Imperium, no more warp travel for Imperial forces.
Warp closed- No more Chaos, no 40k psychic powers, no more warp travel. (Webway might also cease to function).
Space Marine in Terminator armour knocked off his feet- Can't get up.
Space Marine in Power armour- Needs to roll to the front to get up, if back pack is damaged Power Armour powers down, if ruptured back pack blows up killing everything within X distance.
Kill the humans- Chaos gets weaker.
Other than the Dark/Eldar every other race has slow transportation between battle fields. Chances are the Eldar would retreat to the Webway and stay there til its over with.
40k is also full of idiots who fail to understand that they merely need to fire a 2nd shot a split second later at anything with a void shield. They drop after being hit with a Titan weapon. They need to re-established after that and they also don't protect if anything gets within the shield itself.
Given 40k psychic powers are a mutation related thing as well then 40k powers can be turned off by anything which can manipulate the area, Force Users, Marvel Psychics, Magic Users, Nanotech, etc.
If someone protected Magneto from energy attacks (Las weapons) then he could easily defeat most of the Imperium alone.
Yeah, then somebody would just detonate a cyclonic torpedo right next to him, and he can't deflect flames.
You also seem to forget that the suggested war is the 40k universe going all out against the enemy, attacking like a rabid dog. I think only the Marvel Verse would be on the same level, and even then the 40k universe would win in a war of attrition. Of course, the culture would blast 40k to bits.
Star Wars and Starcraft are, of course, owned. Halo is too, unless you think of the precursors... and then we don't even know how powerful they are, really. So we can't use that.
Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote: Me for the really random barely known reference
The universe of Simon R Green
They had access to a weapon called the deplorable end. It was held outside of reality and could be pointed at an entire universe. They universe was then destroyed.
Or just pull things from the deathstalker era like Shub, sleepers, transmutation engines, survivors of the madness maze. They would tear through 40K like butter.
Or just arm John Taylor with the Speaking gun and let him improvise suddenly, violently and all over the place Set Razor Eddie Into the warp to do "Distressing things" to yet more gods. Not forgetting Johns "mummy dearest" who more than likey MADE a few chaos gods at the start along with the rest of her brood. Damn id forgotten how over the top Green's books were And thats before we get into the REALLY over the top characters.
Yeah, then somebody would just detonate a cyclonic torpedo right next to him, and he can't deflect flames.
They are metal torpedos delivered from orbit which explode on impact. (They must be contained in order to be transported). Given they are metal, anyone with the telekinetic or magnetic powers can simply stop them mid-air in which case they never impact and never go off. The only race that doesn't rely on metal are the Eldar races. They have special plastic.
Brother Captain Alexander wrote: I am pretty sure Chaos Gods are not that stupid to let mere mortals manipulate them against each-other, they were after all able to manipulate Primarchs and Eldar who are one of the most powerful and prosperous beings in 40k universe.
A Mind is to a mere mortal as a human genius is to a rock. You're talking about a being that simulates entire universes as light entertainment.
Besides, Chaos can corrupt machines as well as mortal flesh. They generate enormous Warp storm and corrupt everything inside, machine and flesh. Even in all out war Culture and everyone else would lose because no matter how much they throw at Chaos they would just made it stronger. In the end Chaos would win even against hem.
In the end Culture would become Chaos, all it's machines and living beings, because no technology can fight against Chaos magic ( just ask Death Guard for that ).
Except that Chaos can't even deal with the things that already exist in 40k. Over and over again they're killed by mere Imperial forces, and they don't magically corrupt every space marine to stop the attack. It's absolutely insane to assume that they'd magically win against unbelievably more powerful opposition simply because they're Chaos. It only happens if you ignore two fatal problems:
1) Chaos can't corrupt everything by brute force. Tau, Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons don't care about it, and both varieties of space elves are good at resisting it. In fact the only things that DO suffer from Chaos corruption are humans and human-made technology.
2) Chaos has nothing to offer a Mind. You're talking about a being with vastly more power than anything in 40k, that only bothers to stick around in the physical universe because it feels a moral obligation to help others. A Chaos god offering it power in exchange for worship would be an absolute joke.
Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote: Me for the really random barely known reference
The universe of Simon R Green
They had access to a weapon called the deplorable end. It was held outside of reality and could be pointed at an entire universe. They universe was then destroyed.
Or just pull things from the deathstalker era like Shub, sleepers, transmutation engines, survivors of the madness maze. They would tear through 40K like butter.
Or just arm John Taylor with the Speaking gun and let him improvise suddenly, violently and all over the place Set Razor Eddie Into the warp to do "Distressing things" to yet more gods. Not forgetting Johns "mummy dearest" who more than likey MADE a few chaos gods at the start along with the rest of her brood. Damn id forgotten how over the top Green's books were And thats before we get into the REALLY over the top characters.
Also Walker could just go around with his Voice. Yeah, green has some really powerful characters.
Any fictional universe that came into contact with the 40K universe would be instantly deadlocked as they found their timeline and plot permanently frozen.
I think the common Sci-Fi universes would lose pretty badly Star Wars, Star Trek, Halo, star craft. I think someone said gurren lagann, yeah they won't lose to anyone cause of spiral power and the ability to believe.
"Listen Simon... Don't forget. Believe in yourself. Not in the you who believes in me. Not the me who believes in you. Believe in the you who believes in yourself"
Then there is Evangelion universe which could win against the 40k universe, AT shields making them invincible, or they could Orange Tang all the humans everywhere (that includes Space marines/chaos inflicted ones) which would cause the Emperor to die and the starchild to appear and Neutralize the chaos gods allowing the current pilot of said evangelion the ability to start creation over again (draw).
Marvel universe has a lot of strong points but at some point or another the top tier characters get beaten by lesser characters.
DC same as above
The Dune Universe I’m not to sure about.
I honestly don't know that much about the Marvel universe and would like some input on that universe.
Any universe who tried to fight the 40k universe would instantly suffer downpowering by the inevitable codex creep of Mat Ward.
But in all seriousness. Theres people here....saying batman...what?
I also see a lot of people saying one Culture ship could do it. I know the Culture has Gridfire and all that shaz, but would ONE really stand the firepower from the billions of warships that 40K united could bring to bear? Not to mention all 4 chaos gods, bending reality and the fates to doom the ship before it ever stood a chance.
SkyD wrote: I'd say 40k would lose to a number, it has a lot of flaws.
Emperor dies- No more Imperium, no more warp travel for Imperial forces.
Warp closed- No more Chaos, no 40k psychic powers, no more warp travel. (Webway might also cease to function).
Space Marine in Terminator armour knocked off his feet- Can't get up.
Space Marine in Power armour- Needs to roll to the front to get up, if back pack is damaged Power Armour powers down, if ruptured back pack blows up killing everything within X distance.
Kill the humans- Chaos gets weaker.
Other than the Dark/Eldar every other race has slow transportation between battle fields. Chances are the Eldar would retreat to the Webway and stay there til its over with.
40k is also full of idiots who fail to understand that they merely need to fire a 2nd shot a split second later at anything with a void shield. They drop after being hit with a Titan weapon. They need to re-established after that and they also don't protect if anything gets within the shield itself.
Given 40k psychic powers are a mutation related thing as well then 40k powers can be turned off by anything which can manipulate the area, Force Users, Marvel Psychics, Magic Users, Nanotech, etc.
If someone protected Magneto from energy attacks (Las weapons) then he could easily defeat most of the Imperium alone.
Why does Magneto need somebody to protect him? He's got a forcefield. Give him Fabien Cortez to boost his powers, and he can wipe out everything that comes after him in a nano-second. Course, he'd likely die shortly after from wearing himself out, but if he took out everything that 40k sent at him that included metal...well, I'd say the rest of the Marvel heroes and aliens could finish the job with relative ease.
Space Marines probably have iron in their blood-under normal conditions, outside of the movies, Magneto hasn't done anything with these trace amounts of blood iron, but with Cortez's help, he could probably manipulate it with ease and tear the marines apart. And what is this wooden gun going to shoot? More wood? Will these Space Marine be wearing armor? Because their armor is partially comprised of adamantium. And we all know Magneto lllllllloves adamantium.
Jaon wrote: I also see a lot of people saying one Culture ship could do it. I know the Culture has Gridfire and all that shaz, but would ONE really stand the firepower from the billions of warships that 40K united could bring to bear?
Yes. There was a battle between thousands of lower-technology ships and a single Culture ship in one of the books. It could have just hijacked all their computers simultaneously and self destructed them all, but it decided to effortlessly kill them with other weapons because it would be more fun. Add in the fact that starship combat in the Culture universe happens at insanely high FTL speeds and over tiny fractions of a second and the entire Imperial Navy would explode before its commander could even say the 'F' in 'FIRE!".
Not that they would even get a chance to speak, of course, since the microseconds-long "battle" would consist of the Culture ship doing a drive-by at thousands of times the speed of light far outside 40k weapon range.
Not to mention all 4 chaos gods, bending reality and the fates to doom the ship before it ever stood a chance.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Where did you drag that up from? That's pretty close to the worst super hero cartoon I've ever seen. Sadly, when Magneto was first created, he was similar to this, but he'd still have access to his forcefield, and by rights, should have been able to shield himself and fly away. Of course, the FF had to win, so they skipped that part. However, his powers have evolved a lot, and had he been in this situation, he'd use magnetic currents to shatter the gun, rather than manipulate it, or escape. Or if there was any metal nearby, he'd attack Reed with it. That scene would play out a lot differently in comics outside of the 60s. Also, cartoons were non-canon. But that was quite a good laugh. Please, bury it though-it scares me that Marvel cartoons were once that bad.
aahh cartoons of the 60's/70's if you want worse look up 60's Spiderman, but anyways yea I know as time goes on characters powers change greatly.
Not to mention all 4 chaos gods, bending reality and the fates to doom the ship before it ever stood a chance.
Which they've failed to do so far in 40k?
The only problem is that if the Chaos gods win.. they lose. I forgot which book it is but it exsplains that the Alpha legion joined horus to guarantee that horus would win and cause humanity to die out within a few generations taking the 4 chaos gods with them, though it didn't turn out this way.
timetowaste85 wrote: Space Marines probably have iron in their blood-under normal conditions, outside of the movies, Magneto hasn't done anything with these trace amounts of blood iron, but with Cortez's help, he could probably manipulate it with ease and tear the marines apart. And what is this wooden gun going to shoot? More wood? Will these Space Marine be wearing armor? Because their armor is partially comprised of adamantium. And we all know Magneto lllllllloves adamantium.
Uncanny X-Men 304 I think it was, the funeral of Illyana. Magneto turned up and used the iron in everyone's blood to immobilise them, and kept doing so until Bishop absorbed enough of the energy to break free.
Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote: Me for the really random barely known reference
The universe of Simon R Green
They had access to a weapon called the deplorable end. It was held outside of reality and could be pointed at an entire universe. They universe was then destroyed.
Or just pull things from the deathstalker era like Shub, sleepers, transmutation engines, survivors of the madness maze. They would tear through 40K like butter.
Or just arm John Taylor with the Speaking gun and let him improvise suddenly, violently and all over the place Set Razor Eddie Into the warp to do "Distressing things" to yet more gods. Not forgetting Johns "mummy dearest" who more than likey MADE a few chaos gods at the start along with the rest of her brood. Damn id forgotten how over the top Green's books were And thats before we get into the REALLY over the top characters.
Also Walker could just go around with his Voice. Yeah, green has some really powerful characters.
Or even taylor after he becomes walker. Jessica Sorrow could probably unbelieve a good chunk of the 40k-verse before anyone could stop her too.
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Ninjacommando wrote: aahh cartoons of the 60's/70's if you want worse look up 60's Spiderman, but anyways yea I know as time goes on characters powers change greatly.
60s spiderman? Sorry couldnt resist.
Same could be said both sides though, a massive change like say another universe attacking the 40kverse would probably be enough of a big thing to at least nudge the plot along a bit, and who knows what would change.
), not particularly au fait with Iain Banks universe. But then does that not go too far in being over-the-top? 
in' flood. they would relentlessly spread
Sorry couldnt resist.