I took an objective look at my work, and realized what I did. OH GOD WHY doesn't really explain the feeling that I have when reviewing some of the stuff I wrote.

I started a project about reforming the background:

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sturmkrieg:Community_portal#Making_the_Sturmkrieg_background_not_a_pile_of_gak

I'll be going over it, along with anyone who wants to edit or offer suggestions, and make it not a huge pile of gak. I'll post updates here as to how the project is moving along, and anyone who wants to give their feedback on it can post it here.

I realize that I created the Stardust Empire, except instead of every race in the galaxy living together, it was every civilization in history living together.

Here are some articles that can help. I didn't write any of them, give credit to the proper authro. Most of them are focused on fantasy, but Warhammer 40k is just grimdark fantasy that sometimes uses technology as a flimsy substitute for magic. Some of these will be less useful than others.

Cities, Part One

Cities, Part Two

Empires, Part One

Empires, Part Two

Natural and Political Borders

Legal Systems

Societies

Generic Writing Advice

Revolutions and Civil Wars

Building Worlds

Army Logistics

Author's Darlings

Pick a theme and run with it.

If your theme is a hodgepodge of cultural influences that span the globe, go for it, it's just easier when your theme is much simpler. So, retain what you like most about your empire and simplify simplify simplify. Then, when you have a base to lay a foundation upon, you can virtually build into anything you like (so long as you follow the 40k code if you want to garner the respect of the community.)

Otherwise, the sky's the limit.

LoneLictor wrote:Here are some articles that can help. I didn't write any of them, give credit to the proper authro. Most of them are focused on fantasy, but Warhammer 40k is just grimdark fantasy that sometimes uses technology as a flimsy substitute for magic. Some of these will be less useful than others.

Cities, Part One

Cities, Part Two

Empires, Part One

Empires, Part Two

Natural and Political Borders

Legal Systems

Societies

Generic Writing Advice

Revolutions and Civil Wars

Building Worlds

Army Logistics

Author's Darlings

Thanks a lot for posting this. It should help a lot.

DemetriDominov wrote:Pick a theme and run with it.

If your theme is a hodgepodge of cultural influences that span the globe, go for it, it's just easier when your theme is much simpler. So, retain what you like most about your empire and simplify simplify simplify. Then, when you have a base to lay a foundation upon, you can virtually build into anything you like (so long as you follow the 40k code if you want to garner the respect of the community.)

Otherwise, the sky's the limit.

I'm going to stick with the German-Russian theme, and not get more complicated than that. Some worlds will be different for diversity, but they'll still follow a general theme. For example, the world Freivehrkrieg has a lot of terrain based on the Scottish Highlands and has many nomadic tribes, but within that it will still contain elements of the greater Sturmkrieg Sector. Rotstein will be a lot more Russian and USSR based, but I'll make sure it's kept to a manageable level. It's supposed to be very different from Sturmkrieg, and until the fall of the Sturmkrieg Empire, was basically under occupation of it. I'll keep Rotstein a very clearly different place though. It's also mainly Dondrekhan's territory as far as writing is concerned. He's working on writing a lot of stuff on his computer at the moment and will publish it when he gets done with the part he's working on. I've had to tone him back on occsion, such as when he wanted to use the hammer and sickle.

The Imperial Aquilla is the unequivocal symbol of a strong Empire since ancient times - it's just been mutated a bit to fit a 40k universe. The symbol of a hammer and sickle, though ill advised, is a strong foundation of a certain ideology that may or may not be beneficial to your empire. As you have already done, by merging a red star with an iron cross, we see that the radical ideologies that claimed over 20 million lives in WWII have been stuffed into the same sector. It might be a good idea to explain how communism suddenly embraced fascism if your intention is to blend the two.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
The Imperial Aquilla is the unequivocal symbol of a strong Empire since ancient times - it's just been mutated a bit to fit a 40k universe. The symbol of a hammer and sickle, though ill advised, is a strong foundation of a certain ideology that may or may not be beneficial to your empire. As you have already done, by merging a red star with an iron cross, we see that the radical ideologies that claimed over 20 million lives in WWII have been stuffed into the same sector. It might be a good idea to explain how communism suddenly embraced fascism if your intention is to blend the two.

The issue there is that it isn't literally Communism or Fascism. Sternkampf isn't Marxist because they encourage the growth of religion. That said, if they seem Communist, people might fill in the blanks that they are not religious, and so it would be good to make that point more obvious. I would be against having a 40k political system follow real life too closely. The first problem is that it would seem like advocacy of that system. The second is that it would be silly to have Marxist Communism develop in an empire on the other side of the galaxy many thousands of years in the future. The issues would be extremely different then from what they are now. It just might seem like too much of an intrusion, and wouldn't be as creative.

I think something like a red flag with a yellow gear and skull would be better than a hammer and sickle. Dark Mechanicum red would be best. It's the same colors as the USSR, but it's also the same imagery as the Imperium and Mechanuicum, and so it feels more like a reference to the USSR that could actually happen in 40k.

Alright, some questions for you to think about.

1) What's its relationship with the Mechanicum? Why doesn't it follow the emotionless and fanatical doctrines of the Mechanicum?

2) What's the story behind the yellow gear and skull? After all, the hammer and sickle represents the workers of the Soviet Union. The stripes and stars represent the original colonies and states that followed them of the United States. The red cross on a white background represents the crusaders of England. Every nation's flag signified something. Why would the Sturmkrieg's flag symbolize death in the military? Wouldn't that be demoralizing?

3) Why is it communist? The Mechanicum and the Imperium are both opposed to this. Though the government is totalitarian, it still allows private industries to flourish. Wouldn't that hurt the Sturmkrieg empire's standing?

4) Why is the Sturmkrieg empire an empire? Why isn't it just another cluster of imperial planets?

5) Its an empire, so that means it conquers new territory. How does it feed the war effort? How does the populace feel being subjugated to one war after another and being forced to fund a highly aggressive army? Does Sturmkrieg have to institute drafts?

6) The Imperium around it is in a state of decline. How much has this affected the Sturmkrieg Empire? What contact do they even maintain with the Imperium?

I just made this flag, which I might change in response to suggestions by Lone Licter

 LoneLictor wrote:
Alright, some questions for you to think about.

1) What's its relationship with the Mechanicum? Why doesn't it follow the emotionless and fanatical doctrines of the Mechanicum?

2) What's the story behind the yellow gear and skull? After all, the hammer and sickle represents the workers of the Soviet Union. The stripes and stars represent the original colonies and states that followed them of the United States. The red cross on a white background represents the crusaders of England. Every nation's flag signified something. Why would the Sturmkrieg's flag symbolize death in the military? Wouldn't that be demoralizing?

3) Why is it communist? The Mechanicum and the Imperium are both opposed to this. Though the government is totalitarian, it still allows private industries to flourish. Wouldn't that hurt the Sturmkrieg empire's standing?

4) Why is the Sturmkrieg empire an empire? Why isn't it just another cluster of imperial planets?

5) Its an empire, so that means it conquers new territory. How does it feed the war effort? How does the populace feel being subjugated to one war after another and being forced to fund a highly aggressive army? Does Sturmkrieg have to institute drafts?

6) The Imperium around it is in a state of decline. How much has this affected the Sturmkrieg Empire? What contact do they even maintain with the Imperium?

1) I was planning to have the post revolutionary leaders of the Sturmkrieg Sector be fanatically dedicated to developing technology as part of their devotion to the machine god. They would develop a belief in the machine god before the arrival of the Mechanicum. I was also thinking about having their devotion to the machine god be different from that of the rest of the Mechanicum, which would pose a serious problem and would require them to hide improvements to technology, or simply ignore the defects they see in the war materials they export because the rest of the Mechanicum views it as perfect. I might drop that though if there's too little chance that it would work or it makes it seem like all they do is use new technology like the Tau. I'd plan for them to still use weapons that are thousands of years old like the rest of the Imperium, and occasionally they'd come up with a new weapon, but it would be in the style of the Imperium, not extremely non-dark stuff like jetpack jumpsuits or anything like that.

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Religion_in_Sturmkrieg

2) That is going to be important. Red would be the machine god, the gear would be factories and technology, but I'd need to replace the skull or come up with some really good story for it that seems natural. I was thinking that it would be a symbol of humanity, since the Imperium uses skulls in a lot of stuff.

3) Good point. They wouldn't really be Communist. I was planning to have them turn totalitarian, but in a way where it seems like they're making everyone equal. In the beginning of the revolution the leaders would say that everyone would be equal and the sector would be democratic, but in the end it would become far more authoritarian and any representative body would have very little power or could be easily vetoed by a single ruler. There could still be private companies, since I don't imagine Sternkampf as being particularly economically Communist (I don't really think they'd be Communist all all, except vaguely resembling the USSR in a reasonably moderated way). Of course, I need to make this clear and explain that it works that way.

4) Sorry. I was ambiguous there. The Sturmkrieg Empire collapses and is annexed into the Mechanicum as the Sturmkrieg Sector. Once it becomes a sector, it becomes a cluster of Imperial planets as it becomes less centralized and all of the worlds from Rotstein (like 40) are given there independence from Sturmkrieg rule. The Imperium still classifies them as part of the same sector though.

5) I was thinking that at some point long ago, the Sturmkrieg Empire would have worked to acquire new territory, including the conquest of Rotstein, but for the few millennia leading up to the revolution, it would be in slow decline. I'll work on the other parts of the question. I'm thinking that the Sector would have required military service for everyone, though the majority of army groups would not be sent away to combat, as that would be wasteful and too intensive. The remaining ones would guard the worlds they are on.

6) I'll think about this one. Dondrekhan once suggested that Sturmkrieg get stronger on the eastern fringe to compensate as the rest of the Imperium grows weaker, though he did also want to use the hammer and sickle and a model of Stalin, and argued why GW corporate would defend his decision to do that if a manager told him he couldn't. He has seemed to write fairly modest background though when creating the story for his Rotstein army. I was thinking that could be good, but it would have to be approached very carefully in order for it not to feel Mary Sue. It could possibly be with a partnership with the Volianvan Sector, where they work together to survive as the Imperium grows weaker. Sturmkrieg is also fairly far on the eastern fringe, so they might not be very aware. Or they might try even harder to stop the spread of Chaos followers with their local Inquisition ordo, which is a battle they would not be able to have much effect on across the entire galaxy.

For the contact they maintain with the Imperium, I was thinking fairly little because of the distance, except for the Volianvan Sector. That would also mean that both sectors would be on their own. Very large transport convoys might arrive to take away war materials on occasion, but that would be it except for Inquisitors from Sturmkrieg going to other parts of the galaxy.

@all
And another reason not to use literal German words everywhere: it will make it impossible to write the fluff in German without it sounding silly at the point in the future when I'll be able to write in German coherently. I don't think it will be that long actually. I'm thinking the translation of Scharzenkommando will be Scharsenkommando, because of the pronounciation.

Get rid of the Russian and German references. The universe already has such armies in the form of Krieg, the Steel Legion and Valhallan. The theme in Sturmkrieg and way it's made, seem to make it a mix of the Third Reich and Soviet Union. Two things that don't mix.

I'd suggest a restart of the entire idea, instead of trying to fix one that won't work.

 blood reaper wrote:
Get rid of the Russian and German references. The universe already has such armies in the form of Krieg, the Steel Legion and Valhallan. The theme in Sturmkrieg and way it's made, seem to make it a mix of the Third Reich and Soviet Union. Two things that don't mix.

I'd suggest a restart of the entire idea, instead of trying to fix one that won't work.

This sums it up.

 blood reaper wrote:
Get rid of the Russian and German references. The universe already has such armies in the form of Krieg, the Steel Legion and Valhallan. The theme in Sturmkrieg and way it's made, seem to make it a mix of the Third Reich and Soviet Union. Two things that don't mix.

I'd suggest a restart of the entire idea, instead of trying to fix one that won't work.

I think the way there would be to fix it so it doesn't seem like the Third Reich and the USSR. If it can't be done, than I'll do something completely different.

Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

 purplefood wrote:
Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

I think scaling it back considerably would be the best thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that there isn't any fluff other than those two themes, like you said.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

I think scaling it back considerably would be the best thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that there isn't any fluff other than those two themes, like you said.

If you actually used Russian or German culture outside of WW2 it might not be all that bad.

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

I think scaling it back considerably would be the best thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that there isn't any fluff other than those two themes, like you said.

If you actually used Russian or German culture outside of WW2 it might not be all that bad.

That's what I was thinking too. Doing that might make it less overt. I think one of the problems with it coming off as Wehrmacht was the highly mechanized nature of it and seeming like a small highly trained army. Making it mechanized but extremely large less quality over quantity would help.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

I think scaling it back considerably would be the best thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that there isn't any fluff other than those two themes, like you said.

If you actually used Russian or German culture outside of WW2 it might not be all that bad.

That's what I was thinking too. Doing that might make it less overt. I think one of the problems with it coming off as Wehrmacht was the highly mechanized nature of it and seeming like a small highly trained army. Making it mechanized but extremely large less quality over quantity would help.

Or all the German names...
You could always base the army off of something else...
Maybe go with a Middle Eastern culture just to shake things up.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Here are some articles that can help. I didn't write any of them, give credit to the proper authro. Most of them are focused on fantasy, but Warhammer 40k is just grimdark fantasy that sometimes uses technology as a flimsy substitute for magic. Some of these will be less useful than others.

Cities, Part One

Cities, Part Two

Empires, Part One

Empires, Part Two

Natural and Political Borders

Legal Systems

Societies

Generic Writing Advice

Revolutions and Civil Wars

Building Worlds

Army Logistics

Author's Darlings

Just decided to exalt that post for all that good stuff there

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

I think scaling it back considerably would be the best thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that there isn't any fluff other than those two themes, like you said.

If you actually used Russian or German culture outside of WW2 it might not be all that bad.

That's what I was thinking too. Doing that might make it less overt. I think one of the problems with it coming off as Wehrmacht was the highly mechanized nature of it and seeming like a small highly trained army. Making it mechanized but extremely large less quality over quantity would help.

Or all the German names...
You could always base the army off of something else...
Maybe go with a Middle Eastern culture just to shake things up.

I would actually like to do that. I was told once that doing different subthemes for specific worlds could be good as it would demonstrate diversity between worlds within the sector.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

I think scaling it back considerably would be the best thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that there isn't any fluff other than those two themes, like you said.

If you actually used Russian or German culture outside of WW2 it might not be all that bad.

That's what I was thinking too. Doing that might make it less overt. I think one of the problems with it coming off as Wehrmacht was the highly mechanized nature of it and seeming like a small highly trained army. Making it mechanized but extremely large less quality over quantity would help.

Or all the German names...
You could always base the army off of something else...
Maybe go with a Middle Eastern culture just to shake things up.

I would actually like to do that. I was told once that doing different subthemes for specific worlds could be good as it would demonstrate diversity between worlds within the sector.

Not entirely what I meant...
If you want diversity from a theme you have set i.e. Russian (Not just WW2 russia) then you'll need to come up with diversions from that culture taken from other cultures. Adding entirely new cultures is gonna be odd.

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Taking all the references from WWII Russia or Germany would leave very little actual fluff.
Probably not a bad thing all told.

I think scaling it back considerably would be the best thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that there isn't any fluff other than those two themes, like you said.

If you actually used Russian or German culture outside of WW2 it might not be all that bad.

That's what I was thinking too. Doing that might make it less overt. I think one of the problems with it coming off as Wehrmacht was the highly mechanized nature of it and seeming like a small highly trained army. Making it mechanized but extremely large less quality over quantity would help.

Or all the German names...
You could always base the army off of something else...
Maybe go with a Middle Eastern culture just to shake things up.

I would actually like to do that. I was told once that doing different subthemes for specific worlds could be good as it would demonstrate diversity between worlds within the sector.

Not entirely what I meant...
If you want diversity from a theme you have set i.e. Russian (Not just WW2 russia) then you'll need to come up with diversions from that culture taken from other cultures. Adding entirely new cultures is gonna be odd.

Yeah, I realized that. I'm mostly against that idea now of having world subcultures since it would get too complicated.

You don't need an entire thing about them.
A small section for each one and how they affect the main culture/government/whatever would work.

Here's a few of the changes I did:

Josef Stahl -> Yosef Komarov http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Yosef_Komarov

Freiwehrkrieg -> Frävehrkrieg http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Fr%C3%A4vehrkrieg – the ä is for pronounciation, if it looks German I can use ae

Making Aschknas a regular planet
http://www.sturmkrieg.us/index.php?title=Sturmkrieg_Sector&action=historysubmit&diff=7752&oldid=7751

The main problem with Sturmkrieg is that you can tell its authors are very strongly rooting for Sturmkrieg, and its going to win every conflict as a result.

Another problem is the lack of detail. The stuff on the wiki feels very dry and bland. I understand this is a wiki, and not a fanfic, but even then it needs some detail. That makes it pop. Think of details in real history; Hitler's mustache, Josef Stalin proclaiming himself the 'Man of Iron', that sort of thing.

 LoneLictor wrote:
The main problem with Sturmkrieg is that you can tell its authors are very strongly rooting for Sturmkrieg, and its going to win every conflict as a result.

Another problem is the lack of detail. The stuff on the wiki feels very dry and bland. I understand this is a wiki, and not a fanfic, but even then it needs some detail. That makes it pop. Think of details in real history; Hitler's mustache, Josef Stalin proclaiming himself the 'Man of Iron', that sort of thing.

Thanks

Yeah, I realized that there's not a lot that scales it back. It's not an intentional thing; I think that simply not having written about defeats really causes a lot of the problem. There are plenty of good defeats I could write about, possibly with the Eldar.

I've noticed that there seems to be a lot of blandness with a lot of the stuff that is written there, not just the Sturmkrieg background. I'll work on that, because it is a serious problem when it comes to attracting readers. I think it comes from the fact that the articles just describe things. One of the suggestions I've given to other writers is to write stories and than use articles to add detail to things that are mentioned in the story. Of course, with better writing and keeping in mind what you suggest, the articles could still be be an engaging way of telling the story,

@all

I'm thinking about changing Frävehrkrieg to Fraevehrkrieg, at least for the article title because of the funny URL it creates.

Here's more information on the revolution that leads to joining the Mechanicum. Hopefully this will make sense.

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sternkampf_Revolution

Should I completely start this one over?

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sturmkrieg_Sektor_Anthem

Probably

Axe both of them.

Regarding the Sternkampf Revolution, why would the Mechanicum help? Seriously, why? They don't conquer areas. The Imperium does. The Mechanicum hasn't been an empire for 10,000 years, why it would magically start being one again just for your special little region?

Basically, you just summarized the Russian Revolution and threw in 40k stuff.

Regarding the Sturmkrieg Sector Anthem, do you know German? If not, then you do not know German. This means that writing songs in German, if you want to be taken seriously, is a bad idea.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Axe both of them.

Regarding the Sternkampf Revolution, why would the Mechanicum help? Seriously, why? They don't conquer areas. The Imperium does. The Mechanicum hasn't been an empire for 10,000 years, why it would magically start being one again just for your special little region?

Basically, you just summarized the Russian Revolution and threw in 40k stuff.

Regarding the Sturmkrieg Sector Anthem, do you know German? If not, then you do not know German. This means that writing songs in German, if you want to be taken seriously, is a bad idea.

The song is literally in German, which is dumb.

If the Imperium organized it, would it be better? Is it actually like the Russian Revolution in events?

I say drop the revolutions at all. It's not the IOM's MO. They doesn't have any patience to wait for that. And you want the revolutions to go from down and up. That won't work either and leave too much damage. The only ones that makes those kind of revolutions are the Redemtionists and Genestealers. And neither is a kosher matter for the IOM.

Military coups can work, but you can't really have the revolutions as the IOM doesn't work that way.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
I say drop the revolutions at all. It's not the IOM's MO. They doesn't have any patience to wait for that. And you want the revolutions to go from down and up. That won't work either and leave too much damage. The only ones that makes those kind of revolutions are the Redemtionists and Genestealers. And neither is a kosher matter for the IOM.

Military coups can work, but you can't really have the revolutions as the IOM doesn't work that way.

I think a military coup could work. The Imperium doesn't have to support the revolution, but it could be in the background for the coup. Either way, the Sturmkrieg Empire would be abolished.

A military coup is a more likely solution. Heck you might even keep the name. And it's more fitting with the general setting, plus the IOM is a pragmatical beast. They would be happy to let the military surrender to them after they have crushed their own dissidents.

Also I think you should look at the junker-aristocracy as the leaders of Sturmkrieg. And base the culture of that of the German Empire. You can have the revolutions as something Redemtionists or Genestealers are doing.

Here's a start on rewriting it:

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sternkampf_Revolution

I think that would work too.

I'm cautious about making it too German. Also having a Russian theme would help it fit into 40k more.

Alright, here's two issues.

1) The Imperium doesn't fund revolutions. Literally, it doesn't. It never has, and it never will. If the Imperium wanted a small empire like the Sturmkreig one, it would just conquer it and that would be the end of that.

2) You've essentially summarized the Russian Revolution, but you've vomited German all over it. Now, this is okay. The execution of an idea matters more than its originality; nothing in 40k is original, but its still a good setting because its written well. But this isn't written well. Its bland. Its dry. Its the cardboard of fan fiction. The real life Russian Revolution is more interesting than this.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Alright, here's two issues.

1) The Imperium doesn't fund revolutions. Literally, it doesn't. It never has, and it never will. If the Imperium wanted a small empire like the Sturmkreig one, it would just conquer it and that would be the end of that.

2) You've essentially summarized the Russian Revolution, but you've vomited German all over it. Now, this is okay. The execution of an idea matters more than its originality; nothing in 40k is original, but its still a good setting because its written well. But this isn't written well. Its bland. Its dry. Its the cardboard of fan fiction. The real life Russian Revolution is more interesting than this.

Alright. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'm thinking this might be a good idea: The Imperium could start mobilizing the Volianvan Sector and more distant reinforcements to invade the Sturmkrieg Empire. Then during the beginning of the invasion, the coup overthrows the Sturmkrieg Empire, the leaders of the coup give control to Sternkampf, who then gives control over to the Imperium. Then the Sturmkrieg forces that were turned over during the coup join with the Volianvan Sector forces from the Imperium in wiping out any holdout resistance of Sturmkrieg Empire.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
Alright, here's two issues.

1) The Imperium doesn't fund revolutions. Literally, it doesn't. It never has, and it never will. If the Imperium wanted a small empire like the Sturmkreig one, it would just conquer it and that would be the end of that.

2) You've essentially summarized the Russian Revolution, but you've vomited German all over it. Now, this is okay. The execution of an idea matters more than its originality; nothing in 40k is original, but its still a good setting because its written well. But this isn't written well. Its bland. Its dry. Its the cardboard of fan fiction. The real life Russian Revolution is more interesting than this.

Alright. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'm thinking this might be a good idea: The Imperium could start mobilizing the Volianvan Sector and more distant reinforcements to invade the Sturmkrieg Empire. Then during the beginning of the invasion, the coup overthrows the Sturmkrieg Empire, the leaders of the coup give control to Sternkampf, who then gives control over to the Imperium. Then the Sturmkrieg forces that were turned over during the coup join with the Volianvan Sector forces from the Imperium in wiping out any holdout resistance of Sturmkrieg Empire.

Just have the Imperium steam roll the empire, set up a puppet government, and leave some form of the culture left but still heavily suppressed by the Imperium. Get rid of the whole coup thing, or move it into something else.

That sounds much better, and in line with how the IOM operates.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
That sounds much better, and in line with how the IOM operates.

This also allows for the culture to worked into a more Imperial setting, and also allows it to be downplayed a bit.

The coup-idea can work, as I can see the IOM first trying some diplomacy, and then invading. And a series of military coups can be a good, if not a too original story.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
The coup-idea can work, as I can see the IOM first trying some diplomacy, and then invading. And a series of military coups can be a good, if not a too original story.

What about Imperial sympathisers? Maybe fearful of losing their position in the planets hierarchy.

The IOM ain't a very sympathetic organization. And a coup doesn't upset the natural order. I'm thinking the military basically executing a band of nobles with their supporters and the military leaders stepping in as the new aristocracy.

Having a coup turn over a new leadership that accepts the Imperium as their leader would be more interesting than the two alternatives. Those being just having them steam roll the entire thing, or having the Sturmkrieg Empire willingly accept becoming a sector of the Imperium and the changes in structure that come with it.

Alterations
http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sternkampf_Revolution

It's bland, it's boring, but it's much more fitting. You doesn't need to be extremely flashy just to have a sector in space. It's actually the lack of flash that is appealing. Though I think you should have King Ludwig CDVIII or something.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
The IOM ain't a very sympathetic organization. And a coup doesn't upset the natural order. I'm thinking the military basically executing a band of nobles with their supporters and the military leaders stepping in as the new aristocracy.

Got a point there.

I'd just suggest no revolution at all. Just replace it with an Imperial invasion and suppression of the people, with it's leaders removed and replaced by power hungry individuals. Have the culture quickly taken apart and replaced with the Imperial Creed.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
The IOM ain't a very sympathetic organization. And a coup doesn't upset the natural order. I'm thinking the military basically executing a band of nobles with their supporters and the military leaders stepping in as the new aristocracy.

Got a point there.

I'd just suggest no revolution at all. Just replace it with an Imperial invasion and suppression of the people, with it's leaders removed and replaced by power hungry individuals. Have the culture quickly taken apart and replaced with the Imperial Creed.

There's no Imperial culture. Take a look in the 6th ed. rulebook background. Regardless of what happens, they're going to be following the system of the Imperium and Mechanicum.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
It's bland, it's boring, but it's much more fitting. You doesn't need to be extremely flashy just to have a sector in space. It's actually the lack of flash that is appealing. Though I think you should have King Ludwig CDVIII or something.

It doesn't need to be flashy, just an interesting story. Nothing huge happens when the coup seizes power cooperates with the Imperium, but it's more interesting than a straight invasion or straight collaboration.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:There is no Imperial culture.

Lol wat? Do you know what the Imperial Creed is?

Anyways, just remove the revolution.

 blood reaper wrote:

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:There is no Imperial culture.

Lol wat? Do you know what the Imperial Creed is?

Anyways, just remove the revolution.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Cult

It's their religion. Culture is very different on every world, as explained in 6th ed.

However, it's generally the greatest influence on the world. The culture would be 'renovated' to fit the Imperial Cult, as would the planets history. While any current Religion replaced by the Cult.

What's your goal with Sturmkrieg? What are you aiming for?

blood reaper wrote:However, it's generally the greatest influence on the world. The culture would be 'renovated' to fit the Imperial Cult, as would the planets history. While any current Religion replaced by the Cult.

There's still a lot of diversity from world to world. Religions are usually modified (as explained in 6th ed.) to incorporate the Emperor. Since the population of Sturmkrieg already worshiped the Machine God, it would be simple to explain that the Emperor is the Machine God, which is a variation of the Cult Mechanicus as explained in Titanicus.

LoneLictor wrote:What's your goal with Sturmkrieg? What are you aiming for?

I'm going for a sector that's oriented around the Mechanicum and productivity. The Russian-German elements would also be themes, to a reasonable extent.

If I am correct, the Imperium doesn't care who is the Governing body on the planets, providing that they pay their tithes, don't mess the Administratum, Ministorum or Mechanicus about, and don't cavort with the Dark Gods, Aliens or Secessionists.

So you could have a revolution, and they could still remain loyal to the Imperium. In fact, it could be a driving force behind the revolution; that the current Planetary Government isn't doing a very good job at interpreting the Emperor's divine will, so somebody else should.

A coup could be much cheaper than a full blown invasion. I don't see why it wouldn't fit into the setting considering the assassin's of 40k spend an enormous amount of resources doing exactly that.

Lord of Timbraxia wrote:If I am correct, the Imperium doesn't care who is the Governing body on the planets, providing that they pay their tithes, don't mess the Administratum, Ministorum or Mechanicus about, and don't cavort with the Dark Gods, Aliens or Secessionists.

So you could have a revolution, and they could still remain loyal to the Imperium. In fact, it could be a driving force behind the revolution; that the current Planetary Government isn't doing a very good job at interpreting the Emperor's divine will, so somebody else should.

That is true. There are planetary governors, but if the planet decided to have some process of choosing who was in charge of it, I don't think the Imperium would care, provided that there weren't any other problems.

The revolution is the process by which Sturmkrieg becomes a part of the Imperium. A revolution on an Imperial world would likely be seen as a revolution against the Imperium.

DemetriDominov wrote:A coup could be much cheaper than a full blown invasion. I don't see why it wouldn't fit into the setting considering the assassin's of 40k spend an enormous amount of resources doing exactly that.

That's why I think it's a good idea. This is also on the Eastern Fringe where there aren't many forces. There's the real possibility that any attempt to invade the Sturmkrieg Empire would just turn into a perpetual war like the one against the Tau Empire.

I think the main question here is whether it's better to have the Imperium actively support the revolution (by this I mean say they support it, but they hardly do anything) of if they only work with Sternkampf once they sieze power and submit to the Imperium.

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sternkampf_Revolution

I suggested plenty of things that can work, and even better that has bonus-points that you can just brush off the Nazi-Germany-thingies with a pre-WWI-sentiment. That can account for a lot. You then have a setting for a ruling elite of the military the junkers, who were very able generals and strategists. They came saw and kicked ass in the 1860's-70's, totally dominating nations like Denmark, Austria and France. That's sort of the Germany you could safely involve.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
[

LoneLictor wrote:What's your goal with Sturmkrieg? What are you aiming for?

I'm going for a sector that's oriented around the Mechanicum and productivity. The Russian-German elements would also be themes, to a reasonable extent.

So you want a German version of the Mechanicum, but better?

Its seems like the problem with Sturmkrieg is Sturmkrieg.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
[

LoneLictor wrote:What's your goal with Sturmkrieg? What are you aiming for?

I'm going for a sector that's oriented around the Mechanicum and productivity. The Russian-German elements would also be themes, to a reasonable extent.

So you want a German version of the Mechanicum, but better?

Its seems like the problem with Sturmkrieg is Sturmkrieg.

Agreed.

While the German theme could work, it needs to be toned down. It obscures everything else, and while it could work, it would work best in moderation. For example, the Death Korps of Krieg;



The Krieg have obviously been based from German and French armies during WW1, while their preferred tactics are trench warfare. But this doesn't obscure the 40k nature of the Krieg, with their home world devastated by a nuclear war, and a lack of any real identity when their troops have numbers, not names. It's such a rich background because it isn't just Germans in space. It's something unique.

LoneLictor wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
[

LoneLictor wrote:What's your goal with Sturmkrieg? What are you aiming for?

I'm going for a sector that's oriented around the Mechanicum and productivity. The Russian-German elements would also be themes, to a reasonable extent.

So you want a German version of the Mechanicum, but better?

Its seems like the problem with Sturmkrieg is Sturmkrieg.

It just needs to be involved with the Mechanicum, it doesn't need to be better than them.

blood reaper wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
[

LoneLictor wrote:What's your goal with Sturmkrieg? What are you aiming for?

I'm going for a sector that's oriented around the Mechanicum and productivity. The Russian-German elements would also be themes, to a reasonable extent.

So you want a German version of the Mechanicum, but better?

Its seems like the problem with Sturmkrieg is Sturmkrieg.

Agreed.

While the German theme could work, it needs to be toned down. It obscures everything else, and while it could work, it would work best in moderation. For example, the Death Korps of Krieg;



The Krieg have obviously been based from German and French armies during WW1, while their preferred tactics are trench warfare. But this doesn't obscure the 40k nature of the Krieg, with their home world devastated by a nuclear war, and a lack of any real identity when their troops have numbers, not names. It's such a rich background because it isn't just Germans in space. It's something unique.

I'm going to be working on making it less obvious, and have more generic 40k elements.

So you want a slightly German themed Mechanicum related army.

OK, that's good.

Let's work with that, and not add any other country themes to it. Make it that a primitive world filled with rich materials was found by a Mechanicus exploration fleet. The fleet seeks to take over the planet and use it for their own purposes, but the natives don't want to share the world and try to battle them off. The Mechanicus take over and wipe out most of the populous and force the remaining primitives into slavery, where they are brainwashed into a die hard belief in the Emperor and Ommnishia (don't know if that's the correct spelling.)

How's that?

Also the name. Sturmkrieg sounds a bit like Krieg, and by a bit I mean it sounds like Krieg. Maybe you could work on changing that?

 Lord of Timbraxia wrote:
If I am correct, the Imperium doesn't care who is the Governing body on the planets, providing that they pay their tithes, don't mess the Administratum, Ministorum or Mechanicus about, and don't cavort with the Dark Gods, Aliens or Secessionists.

So you could have a revolution, and they could still remain loyal to the Imperium. In fact, it could be a driving force behind the revolution; that the current Planetary Government isn't doing a very good job at interpreting the Emperor's divine will, so somebody else should.

I think that it could also be possible that the Mechanicum wanted to negotiate a solution without assistance from the Imperium so that they could claim the sector entirely for themselves. That might not be bad. One of the ideas for "help" that I had is that they really don't do anything significant until the last moment when they have to.

You're ignoring me. The Mechanicum isn't an Empire. It doesn't conquer things. It doesn't take new sectors and disobey the Imperium.

The Mechanicum is the Imperium's bitch, and it's been that way since before the Horus Heresy.

Yet they are still able to have their own sovereignty, standing armies, fleets, and worlds. It may have to bow to the Emperor like everyone else, but they can indeed flex their military muscle and do so when they feel it prudent. Manchu, Lynata, and I have discussed this in length in another thread.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Yet they are still able to have their own sovereignty, standing armies, fleets, and worlds. It may have to bow to the Emperor like everyone else, but they can indeed flex their military muscle and do so when they feel it prudent. Manchu, Lynata, and I have discussed this in length in another thread.

They also have their own army, the titan legions and the Skitarii. I believe they also have their own fleets. The only worlds that they control though are the forge worlds. As far as I know, there aren't any dedicated Mechanicum sectors.

 LoneLictor wrote:
You're ignoring me. The Mechanicum isn't an Empire. It doesn't conquer things. It doesn't take new sectors and disobey the Imperium.

The Mechanicum is the Imperium's bitch, and it's been that way since before the Horus Heresy.

It's more like they are partners...
The Imperium provides a meatshield to protect the Mechnicus and the Mechanicus gives them shiny weapons to fight with.

We talked about the Moirae Schism and how it influenced the Nova Terra Interregnum civil war that invariably lead to the Ecclesairchy's rise in power above that of the Mechanicus. Though your allegiance must always be first and foremost to the Emperor, having a system of forge worlds basically means you are governed by the Adeptus Mechanicus.

There are two things that support this:

Ophellia VII (previously V) is part of a greater system of shrine worlds dedicated to the Ecclesiarchy fully apart from Holy Terra. This means that even by the letter of the law they are still "Imperial Worlds" governed by the High Lords of Terra, but in actuality, they are just as, if not more independent from the High Lords as Mars. So long as they continue to bind the Imperium together with the word of the Emperor, their power is as absolute as the Administratum's.

The second example is Vostroya, ruled by the Techtriarchs, but still loyal to the Administratum on Holy Terra - they aren't even technically part of the Mechanicus, but are still loyal to them. If you really wanted to have an entire sector dedicated to the Mechanicus Cult why not write it this way:

Your capital is a civilized Forge World, ruled by the Mechanicus. Every other planet is like Vostroya, heavily influenced by the Mechanicus and even facilitated by the cult, but still considered ruled by Lord Governors, Councils, or whatever as long as they are loyal to Terra first.

purplefood wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
You're ignoring me. The Mechanicum isn't an Empire. It doesn't conquer things. It doesn't take new sectors and disobey the Imperium.

The Mechanicum is the Imperium's bitch, and it's been that way since before the Horus Heresy.

It's more like they are partners...
The Imperium provides a meatshield to protect the Mechnicus and the Mechanicus gives them shiny weapons to fight with.

That sounds about right. The Mechanicum probably has far fewer worlds, but if they ever stopped working it could completely feth the Imperium.

DemetriDominov wrote:We talked about the Moirae Schism and how it influenced the Nova Terra Interregnum civil war that invariably lead to the Ecclesairchy's rise in power above that of the Mechanicus. Though your allegiance must always be first and foremost to the Emperor, having a system of forge worlds basically means you are governed by the Adeptus Mechanicus.

There are two things that support this:

Ophellia VII (previously V) is part of a greater system of shrine worlds dedicated to the Ecclesiarchy fully apart from Holy Terra. This means that even by the letter of the law they are still "Imperial Worlds" governed by the High Lords of Terra, but in actuality, they are just as, if not more independent from the High Lords as Mars. So long as they continue to bind the Imperium together with the word of the Emperor, their power is as absolute as the Administratum's.

The second example is Vostroya, ruled by the Techtriarchs, but still loyal to the Administratum on Holy Terra - they aren't even technically part of the Mechanicus, but are still loyal to them. If you really wanted to have an entire sector dedicated to the Mechanicus Cult why not write it this way:

Your capital is a civilized Forge World, ruled by the Mechanicus. Every other planet is like Vostroya, heavily influenced by the Mechanicus and even facilitated by the cult, but still considered ruled by Lord Governors, Councils, or whatever as long as they are loyal to Terra first.

I think that's a good plan. Although I'm not sure if the capital world will be a forge world. It will be heavily industrialized in many regions, but I think it would work better as an administrative world over production.

It just depends on how much influence you want from the Mechanicus. As previously stated, it would be difficult to justify an entire system heavily influenced and especially governed by the cult without a Mechanicus polis someplace.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
It just depends on how much influence you want from the Mechanicus. As previously stated, it would be difficult to justify an entire system heavily influenced and especially governed by the cult without a Mechanicus polis someplace.

I assume that it would probably have some connection with the rest of the Imperium, though the distance from other areas of the Imperium might make them not likely to send many people out their way. They might get advisors to help them set up the local offices and structure, but that would probably be about it.

I think a revolution where the Mechanicum "helped" would make the Sturmkrieg Sector extremely pro Mechanicum from the start.

dude you're lijke 70 man, are you sure you're young enough to write a book?

SouthTexanFrymire wrote:
dude you're lijke 70 man, are you sure you're young enough to write a book?

He's referring to your avatar

 thenoobbomb wrote:
He's referring to your avatar

And is a troll.

No, you serious?

No.

I am not.

thenoobbomb wrote:He's referring to your avatar

I started to figure that.

blood reaper wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
He's referring to your avatar

And is a troll.

...

So is a story where the Mechanicum shows up without much support, offers assistance to the Sturmkrieg Empire in putting down the revolution in exchange for annexation, they decline, the Mechanicum makes the same offer to Sternkampf, and they join the Mechanicum to gain "freedom" workable?

Why do the Mechanicum even make the offer? They don't need much support to take down a small sector.

 blood reaper wrote:
Why do the Mechanicum even make the offer? They don't need much support to take down a small sector.

So they're just going to go take over 100 worlds with an expeditionary force? I think it would be best to avoid that level of Mary Sue. Unless they have Matt Ward with them, it isn't going to happen.

Depends how well the worlds are willing to resist...
It also depends on whether those worlds have any decent Naval forces or not.

 purplefood wrote:
Depends how well the worlds are willing to resist...
It also depends on whether those worlds have any decent Naval forces or not.

That's true. Rotstein wouldn't exactly be willing to fight for Sturmkrieg, but that's assuming that the Sturmkrieg Empire can't put them up to it by claiming that the Mechanicum would be an even worse occupier. American Blacks fought against the Nazis, but that doesn't mean that they were treated well within the US, the Nazis would have been a far worse oppressor; there was probably also the component that they wanted to show that they could do everything White people could do. Back on topic, the rest of the Empire wouldn't want to resist. That also says nothing about whether or not the empire has a devoted military. Plus the purpose of the "assistance" is for the Mechanicum to avoid doing anything. When they "help," all they're doing is saying they're going to help, except for a few very important moments.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Why do the Mechanicum even make the offer? They don't need much support to take down a small sector.

So they're just going to go take over 100 worlds with an expeditionary force? I think it would be best to avoid that level of Mary Sue. Unless they have Matt Ward with them, it isn't going to happen.

Expected, as usual, oh and a reference to the Nazi's, that caught me off guard.

They wouldn't even try to invade, they'd just call in reinforcements and wait.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Why do the Mechanicum even make the offer? They don't need much support to take down a small sector.

So they're just going to go take over 100 worlds with an expeditionary force? I think it would be best to avoid that level of Mary Sue. Unless they have Matt Ward with them, it isn't going to happen.

Expected, as usual, oh and a reference to the Nazi's, that caught me off guard.

They wouldn't even try to invade, they'd just call in reinforcements and wait.

So where are the Nazis? This one is completely you. You're the only one mentioning Nazis.

Except it's on the eastern fringe where they would be waiting for a long time for reinforcements. Plus it would mean that the Imperium would get the sector.

Sternkampf and the Mechanicum:

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:So where are the Nazis? This one is completely you. You're the only one mentioning Nazis.

Well this;

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: American Blacks fought against the Nazis, but that doesn't mean that they were treated well within the US, the Nazis would have been a far worse oppressor; there was probably also the component that they wanted to show that they could do everything White people could do.

And this is odd....

Except it's on the eastern fringe where they would be waiting for a long time for reinforcements. Plus it would mean that the Imperium would get the sector.

The Mechanicus can wait, and it wouldn't take that long.

 blood reaper wrote:

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:So where are the Nazis? This one is completely you. You're the only one mentioning Nazis.

Well this;

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: American Blacks fought against the Nazis, but that doesn't mean that they were treated well within the US, the Nazis would have been a far worse oppressor; there was probably also the component that they wanted to show that they could do everything White people could do.

And this is odd....

Except it's on the eastern fringe where they would be waiting for a long time for reinforcements. Plus it would mean that the Imperium would get the sector.

The Mechanicus can wait, and it wouldn't take that long.

It would also mean that the Imperium gets the sector.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:So where are the Nazis? This one is completely you. You're the only one mentioning Nazis.

Well this;

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: American Blacks fought against the Nazis, but that doesn't mean that they were treated well within the US, the Nazis would have been a far worse oppressor; there was probably also the component that they wanted to show that they could do everything White people could do.

And this is odd....

Except it's on the eastern fringe where they would be waiting for a long time for reinforcements. Plus it would mean that the Imperium would get the sector.

The Mechanicus can wait, and it wouldn't take that long.

It would also mean that the Imperium gets the sector.

But why do this? Just have them steam roll it, demolish the culture and so on. The Mechanicus don't work this way, they work for the Imperium, and the Imperium would steamroll this empire.

Eh they kinda do.
The Mechnicus is an empire within an empire.
More of a symbiotic empire actually since they both depend on each other.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:So where are the Nazis? This one is completely you. You're the only one mentioning Nazis.

Well this;

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: American Blacks fought against the Nazis, but that doesn't mean that they were treated well within the US, the Nazis would have been a far worse oppressor; there was probably also the component that they wanted to show that they could do everything White people could do.

And this is odd....

Except it's on the eastern fringe where they would be waiting for a long time for reinforcements. Plus it would mean that the Imperium would get the sector.

The Mechanicus can wait, and it wouldn't take that long.

It would also mean that the Imperium gets the sector.

But why do this? Just have them steam roll it, demolish the culture and so on. The Mechanicus don't work this way, they work for the Imperium, and the Imperium would steamroll this empire.

Why is it important to you to steamroll it? And why is the culture significant?

 purplefood wrote:
Eh they kinda do.
The Mechnicus is an empire within an empire.
More of a symbiotic empire actually since they both depend on each other.

Yeah, the Mechanicum could be trying to get a large holding for itself, and wouldn't want the Imperium to get involved during the annexation.

They could do it fairly easily without involving the Imperium.
That said. 100 consecutive worlds is rather a lot for the Mechanicus. It's more likely they'd try and take over maybe 20 of them and leave the rest for the Imperium to take.

Also, why does it have to be a 100?

It's a bit much.

purplefood wrote:They could do it fairly easily without involving the Imperium.
That said. 100 consecutive worlds is rather a lot for the Mechanicus. It's more likely they'd try and take over maybe 20 of them and leave the rest for the Imperium to take.

It's not like the rest of the other worlds would come and attack.

blood reaper wrote:Also, why does it have to be a 100?

It's a bit much.

I remember a long time ago being told that 60 worlds (another 40 in Rotstein) was a good number. It allows for a lot of diversity in worlds, but is small enough that it allows for a somewhat detailed background to be written on each world. The entire Volianvan Sector was written around the basis that Sturmkrieg was 60 worlds. I also endlessly get crapped on for being too small.

Is this at a good place yet?

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sternkampf_Revolution#.UTtEfuvwJsU

Have you changed anything?

It sounds like you just want to write about an incredibly German empire with all the strengths of the Imperium and the Mechanicum, but non of the weaknesses.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Have you changed anything?

It sounds like you just want to write about an incredibly German empire with all the strengths of the Imperium and the Mechanicum, but non of the weaknesses.

I haven't changed a lot yet. They lack psykers as part of their lack of psychic presence, and are therefore limited to very short jumps through the Warp, which severely limits how far they can travel without transport from somewhere else provided for them. Basically it means they rely on the Volianvan Sector, or they don't go anywhere.

I'm more talking about cultural and moral flaws. The Imperium is xenophobic and irrational. The Mechanicum is downright insane at times.

They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

purplefood wrote:They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

I think he's trying to reference Vladimir Lenin's corpse being preserved.

But he's forgetting that they didn't preserve Lenin alive. Its not like Stalin ambushed him in the night and drowned him with embalming fluid, in case they would need him in the future.

I'd have to say the reason people find your 'SturmKrieg' thing uninteresting and stupid, is because you have put far, far, to much emphasis on the labyrinthine and completely dull political/rebellion/whatever stuff. When you hear stories in 40k about guard armies, you don't read stories about how the frowned-upon political reforms of Steve McRambo, the Catachan prime-minister, cause quite a stir, or the unequal treamtent of Cadia's lower classes. No, you hear about their great tales of battle and death, dramatic stories of glorious victories and horrific defeats, things that capture the attention of the reader and make them want to find out more about the rich background.

And so far as I can see, Sturmkrieg has none of that whatsoever.

 LoneLictor wrote:

purplefood wrote:They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

I think he's trying to reference Vladimir Lenin's corpse being preserved.

But he's forgetting that they didn't preserve Lenin alive. Its not like Stalin ambushed him in the night and drowned him with embalming fluid, in case they would need him in the future.

That was completely accidental. I was not thinking about that at all.

TheRobotLol wrote:I'd have to say the reason people find your 'SturmKrieg' thing uninteresting and stupid, is because you have put far, far, to much emphasis on the labyrinthine and completely dull political/rebellion/whatever stuff. When you hear stories in 40k about guard armies, you don't read stories about how the frowned-upon political reforms of Steve McRambo, the Catachan prime-minister, or the unequal treamtent of Cadia's lower classes. No, you hear about their great tales of battle and death, dramatic stories of glorious victories and horrific defeats, things that capture the attention of the reader and make them want to find out more.

And so far as I can see, Sturmkrieg has none of that whatsoever.

If done right, politics can be interesting. But, in order for it to be interesting, there needs to be something at stake that the readers care about.

Sturmkrieg is lacking in that. Just telling me that the lower classes were oppressed doesn't suddenly make me feel outraged, and it certainly doesn't make me hold my breath waiting for a political reform in this fictional world.

 TheRobotLol wrote:
I'd have to say the reason people find your 'SturmKrieg' thing uninteresting and stupid, is because you have put far, far, to much emphasis on the labyrinthine and completely dull political/rebellion/whatever stuff. When you hear stories in 40k about guard armies, you don't read stories about how the frowned-upon political reforms of Steve McRambo, the Catachan prime-minister, or the unequal treamtent of Cadia's lower classes. No, you hear about their great tales of battle and death, dramatic stories of glorious victories and horrific defeats, things that capture the attention of the reader and make them want to find out more.

And so far as I can see, Sturmkrieg has none of that whatsoever.

Yeah, good point. I agree. The reason I have so much focus on that now is because I've been trying to establish the origin of it. I'll work on grand stories that are more in line with the rest of the 40k stories. Probably losses, to prevent too much awesome.

 purplefood wrote:
They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

I think I even said how dumb it is, because they'll be out of it when they wake up and not know how to effectively deal with situations, which is what they would be wanted for, other than symbolic value.

Assuming the Emperor isn't actually dead, he's also in stasis. Or his body is.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

I think I even said how dumb it is, because they'll be out of it when they wake up and not know how to effectively deal with situations, which is what they would be wanted for, other than symbolic value.

Assuming the Emperor isn't actually dead, he's also in stasis. Or his body is.

Yeah so why do it?
They aren't dumb. They're intelligent people (I assume they are since they managed to overthrow an entire empire)
Also like LL said the politics can be interesting but you need to actually make it interesting.

 purplefood wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

I think I even said how dumb it is, because they'll be out of it when they wake up and not know how to effectively deal with situations, which is what they would be wanted for, other than symbolic value.

Assuming the Emperor isn't actually dead, he's also in stasis. Or his body is.

Yeah so why do it?
They aren't dumb. They're intelligent people (I assume they are since they managed to overthrow an entire empire)
Also like LL said the politics can be interesting but you need to actually make it interesting.

Yeah, good point. I remember there being something I wanted to use them for farther into the development of the Sturmkrieg Sector I wanted to use them for. If there's still some particular story, a case of the Warp shooting out a ship thousands of years later would take care of it.

 LoneLictor wrote:

purplefood wrote:They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

I think he's trying to reference Vladimir Lenin's corpse being preserved.

But he's forgetting that they didn't preserve Lenin alive. Its not like Stalin ambushed him in the night and drowned him with embalming fluid, in case they would need him in the future.

That sounds like something crazy enough to be in the 40K universe. If anything, make this the story behind Sturmkrieg. Their leader is a zombie lenin who rises from his stasis pod to defeat the evils of the Imperium and starts a civil war.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

purplefood wrote:They appear to be really dumb...
Putting their leaders into stasis is a fairly stupid idea.
More so when they actually realise how dumb it is.

I think he's trying to reference Vladimir Lenin's corpse being preserved.

But he's forgetting that they didn't preserve Lenin alive. Its not like Stalin ambushed him in the night and drowned him with embalming fluid, in case they would need him in the future.

That sounds like something crazy enough to be in the 40K universe. If anything, make this the story behind Sturmkrieg. Their leader is a zombie lenin who rises from his stasis pod to defeat the evils of the Imperium and starts a civil war.

You're right, that would be interesting. The leader is preserved against his own will, in the name of misplaced concern for the future. After all, what will Sturmkrieg do without him?

Then, in the future, when things are bad, he's reawakened. He sees that Sturmkrieg is the Imperium's bitch, and he's horrified. He wanted the Imperium to treat Sturmkrieg as an independent, sovereign nation, not a territory. So he leads a rebellion.

And that's what Sturmkrieg is about. An old man, fighting a war no one remembers, leading a moderate sized sector's rebellion against the Imperium. Normally the Imperium would just destroy the rebellion right off the bat, but with the 13th Black Crusade, its resources are stretched thin, and Sturmkrieg has a fighting chance to gain independence.

And now we have our reason for starting a civil war.

Nah, they serve the Mechanicum and Imperium.

One major problem with that: out on the eastern fringe, they'll probably hardly ever have contact with anyone else in the Imperium, other than the Volianvan Sector. Most of the contact after annexation would be transport convoys coming to pick up supplies from the factories.

Sternkampf is also fully aware that annexation means subordination to the Mechanicum and Imperium. It's better than being part of an estate for the ruling class.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Nah, they serve the Mechanicum and Imperium.

One major problem with that: out on the eastern fringe, they'll probably hardly ever have contact with anyone else in the Imperium, other than the Volianvan Sector. Most of the contact after annexation would be transport convoys coming to pick up supplies from the factories.

Sternkampf is also fully aware that annexation means subordination to the Mechanicum and Imperium. It's better than being part of an estate for the ruling class.

So an independent empire just randomly decided, "Hey, we're fine with giving up all our power and serving a bunch of religious freaks!"

If the common people were willing to revolt against the Space Czar Nicholas II, then they'll certainly be willing to revolt against their new leaders selling them to the Imperium.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Nah, they serve the Mechanicum and Imperium.

One major problem with that: out on the eastern fringe, they'll probably hardly ever have contact with anyone else in the Imperium, other than the Volianvan Sector. Most of the contact after annexation would be transport convoys coming to pick up supplies from the factories.

Sternkampf is also fully aware that annexation means subordination to the Mechanicum and Imperium. It's better than being part of an estate for the ruling class.

So an independent empire just randomly decided, "Hey, we're fine with giving up all our power and serving a bunch of religious freaks!"

If the common people were willing to revolt against the Space Czar Nicholas II, then they'll certainly be willing to revolt against their new leaders selling them to the Imperium.

I think that's why the idea of the Mechanicus assisting the rebels was introduced. It would help gain the goodwill of the people and, considering the Imperium largely allows planets to operate their own government as long as they pay the tithes they would probably be fine being annexed by the Imperium.

 purplefood wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Nah, they serve the Mechanicum and Imperium.

One major problem with that: out on the eastern fringe, they'll probably hardly ever have contact with anyone else in the Imperium, other than the Volianvan Sector. Most of the contact after annexation would be transport convoys coming to pick up supplies from the factories.

Sternkampf is also fully aware that annexation means subordination to the Mechanicum and Imperium. It's better than being part of an estate for the ruling class.

So an independent empire just randomly decided, "Hey, we're fine with giving up all our power and serving a bunch of religious freaks!"

If the common people were willing to revolt against the Space Czar Nicholas II, then they'll certainly be willing to revolt against their new leaders selling them to the Imperium.

I think that's why the idea of the Mechanicus assisting the rebels was introduced. It would help gain the goodwill of the people and, considering the Imperium largely allows planets to operate their own government as long as they pay the tithes they would probably be fine being annexed by the Imperium.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. They'd also be securing the "assistance" of the Mechanicum, who then frames it in such a way that it looks like the Mechanicum is the great savior from the Sturmkrieg Empire, when they did the minimum amount of work possible and only got involved when they had to. Sternkampf is also a massively religious organization. The only issue I can see is that the Sturmkrieg version of the Machine God requires constant technological improvement until Humanity becomes one with the Great Creator. All they'd have to do is not work on development for a few decades after annexation until the foreign Techpriests are satisfied that they've learned the ways of the Mechanicum, which in many ways would be nearly identical.

Is this a better version of the revolution?

http://www.sturmkrieg.us/Sternkampf_Revolution#.UUoYxFvwIbo

There is some weird phrasing "As the poverty became worse, it attracted large numbers of followers." This makes it sound like poverty was gaining followers...
You also kept the stupid stasis idea...
What exactly did you change?

I still like my zombie lenin idea.

 purplefood wrote:
There is some weird phrasing "As the poverty became worse, it attracted large numbers of followers." This makes it sound like poverty was gaining followers...
You also kept the stupid stasis idea...
What exactly did you change?

I forgot that was still in there.

And I'll change the line so it's less ambiguous.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
I still like my zombie lenin idea.

Are you saying it would be a good idea?

So why are they being kept in stasis?

I was thinking recently about having the de-germanization be an in-story element in addition to an edition process. I was thinking about having it be part of the process of destroying the culture of the Sturmkrieg Empire that Sternkampf begins after being annexed by the Mechanicum.

Or you could have it never exist like it would have done if there was a god...

 purplefood wrote:
Or you could have in never exist like it would have done if there was a god...

WAT?

I think in his rather abrasive way, Purps is telling you that Sturmkrieg shouldn't have had all the massive Germinzation to begin wiht...

 Alfndrate wrote:
I think in his rather abrasive way, Purps is telling you that Sturmkrieg shouldn't have had all the massive Germinzation to begin wiht...

In other words Scrap everything and start Fresh. It is always the best way when you have to go back and change major parts of any Idea.

The German bit wasn't that major.
It was dressing on what could have been a good idea.
If you had replaced it with French instead it would still have been a problem if maybe a new style since German is kinda overdone in 40k...
I think...

Going on the Krieg example of uniforms, I'm working on combining uniform elements from Germans and Russians to make something that contains elements of each but still feels natural.

What is it about Russia and Germany that you want to incorporate into Sturmkrieg?

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Going on the Krieg example of uniforms, I'm working on combining uniform elements from Germans and Russians to make something that contains elements of each but still feels natural.

You have until this point shown no real will to exclude the less than savory parts like Nazi symbols and such. Beside you would be better of taking parts from the Belgian, French and English uniforms, it would be much more intresting than to see the end result you will end up with if you take from the USSR and Germany! Also for heavens sake listen to people like Purpelfood and LoneLictor!

LoneLictor wrote:What is it about Russia and Germany that you want to incorporate into Sturmkrieg?

With the USSR, it's possible to make something that seemed like it was supposed to be a totally egalitarian into a totalitarian society. Plus the imagery and tactics of 40k are close in some ways to the Red Army, and so it would help it fit better. Otherwise my interest is mainly old Germany from way back, which doesn't have much place in 40k. Restricting most of the German stuff to the Sturmkrieg Empire and then obliterating it when the Mechanicum comes through would help show change.

Trondheim wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Going on the Krieg example of uniforms, I'm working on combining uniform elements from Germans and Russians to make something that contains elements of each but still feels natural.

You have until this point shown no real will to exclude the less than savory parts like Nazi symbols and such. Beside you would be better of taking parts from the Belgian, French and English uniforms, it would be much more intresting than to see the end result you will end up with if you take from the USSR and Germany! Also for heavens sake listen to people like Purpelfood and LoneLictor!

I was actually thinking about that for a long time, and with similar suggestions, will work on implementing it. I was considering making the Krasnayavehr like the British and American militaries in terms of tactics and airpower.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:What is it about Russia and Germany that you want to incorporate into Sturmkrieg?

With the USSR, it's possible to make something that seemed like it was supposed to be a totally egalitarian into a totalitarian society. Plus the imagery and tactics of 40k are close in some ways to the Red Army, and so it would help it fit better. Otherwise my interest is mainly old Germany from way back, which doesn't have much place in 40k. Restricting most of the German stuff to the Sturmkrieg Empire and then obliterating it when the Mechanicum comes through would help show change.

Alright, so you like the Soviet aesthetic, as well as the tale of a revolution that ended installing another dictator rather than achieving freedom. Well, you're going to need to make Sturmkrieg's rulers/revolution leaders a lot worse then. So far, it seems like they've been portrayed as good guys (if I remember correctly). Well, the good guys are going to have to either sacrifice their morals, or get purged. And there need to be a lot more bad guys. You need to show life in Sturmkrieg getting worse for the average person. You need a Stalin.

Secondly, regarding old Germany... What is it you want about old Germany to incorporate into Sturmkrieg?

Apparently just the words...
There's not a whole lot you have incorporated apart from the revolution gone sour idea which isn't all that Russian...

 purplefood wrote:
Apparently just the words...
There's not a whole lot you have incorporated apart from the revolution gone sour idea which isn't all that Russian...

Yeah, most violent revolutions go sour. Let's see... French, Cuban, Iranian, Chinese, and a whole bunch of others. Hell, even the Syrian Revolution appears to be taking a turn for the worse. The rebels have been hijacked by an extremist Islamist movement, with many allying with Al Qaeda.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Apparently just the words...
There's not a whole lot you have incorporated apart from the revolution gone sour idea which isn't all that Russian...

Yeah, most violent revolutions go sour. Let's see... French, Cuba, Iran, China, and a whole bunch of others. Hell, even the Syrian Revolution appears to be taking a turn for the worse. The rebels have been hijacked by an extremist Islamist movement, with many allying with Al Qaeda.

Even the good ones don't live up to the hype...

 purplefood wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Apparently just the words...
There's not a whole lot you have incorporated apart from the revolution gone sour idea which isn't all that Russian...

Yeah, most violent revolutions go sour. Let's see... French, Cuba, Iran, China, and a whole bunch of others. Hell, even the Syrian Revolution appears to be taking a turn for the worse. The rebels have been hijacked by an extremist Islamist movement, with many allying with Al Qaeda.

Even the good ones don't live up to the hype...

Last time I checked, that American Revolution has been living up to the hype since 1776...

'MURICA


Also, seriously OP, listen to Purps... he's solid on creative writing.

I find it amazing that this still is going. I mean does it take that long to reach a consensus about anything, but then again I give up advising if I ain't listened to. Right now I think you likely should stop the whole project in order to stop stepping of the toes of anyone from a Germanic country.

To be honest, I agree with Beaviz here, this thing has gone on for so much longer that it should have. I mean there must have been a point you should have surely realized so much work isn't going to make it anything particularly special, and no one has shown any real great interest despite your tiny changes.

This has dragged on through Dakka like a corpse behind a horse. I mean this with all due respect, it's time to call it a day.

The worst is actually that people have continued to give tips and winks for months to someone this stubborn. The second worst was that people of Germanic stock was left out of it. That's why the whole thing went downhill. And the third was the very minor alterations TRL pointed out. The only thing good was the name, the rest seriously suck balls, and that harder than a vacumer during Chernobyl.

That's just being rude, it's not particularly great but there's no need to be rude.
It has some merit but it needs work. Some people are less willing to listen to criticism than others...

And in this case, that lack of willing to listen to criticism is working against the creator, and is overall making this whole Sturmkrieg thing worse.

Well yes. I never said it wasn't the case.
Most of the time if you are unwilling to listen to criticism it makes whatever you're working on worse...

Come on purplefood we haven't always gotten along but this is ridiculous. TRL is spot on, and you ain't a person to call politeness to the spot I can still remember how you dismembered my fluff without any politeness.

Beaviz81, Purplefood seemed fairly polite to me. He was certainly more polite than you're being here.

There's a difference between being outright rude and not sparing someone's feelings.
It's no secret that is dislike basically everything about Sturmkrieg but I think the idea of a revolution doing a deal with the Imperium/Mechanicus in order to overthrow the current government is a nice idea. I dislike the random german/russian elements because they are not only poorly done but also stupid. They add nothing and detract rather a lot from it.

I think beavis is saying can it because some of the core problems with the idea, the german and russian stuff, has been ongoing since 2011. I think he is just getting tired of the writer saying 'ohohoh I'm going to change it now, it's going to make a lot more sense' and then adding a comma and another made up german word.

And while you are right, that there is a difference between being outright rude and not sparing someone's feelings, I don't think Beavis quite crossed that line.

edit: upon rereading that last comment about vacuum cleaners and what not is actually where he crossed that line.

Rudeness is how people view it. I think purplefood was rude to me, nothing else (him telling me that he weren't sparing my feelings was a lousy term of critique and shall never ever be followed). Plus I'm of germanic stock, so I can judge better than any of you of non-Germanic stock if something is rude. Infact I and people of Germanic stock should have been the first not the last people asked if things are offensive, and let me tell you, this project should have been closed long ago as it has hit my warning-buttons many times and I'm not even German.

Alfendrate- Thanks, I'll work with Purplefood and his suggestions. I realize a revolution gone bad isn't that original. I wouldn't really say that the concept of people going poor and revolting is really specific to the Russian Revolution. I had the French Revolution in mind when I wrote most of it, but I'm not going to use it as a mold because I'd be locked in and history hammer is a bad idea.

As for change, Sturmkrieg is almost entirely different from what it used to be. Originally, it was completely German, an ally of the Imperium, joined during the Great Crusade, and had 2,000 worlds. It was also practically a clone. The language was also literally German.

Beaviz, I'm very suspicious of the complaint about Sturmkrieg not having "Germanic stock." That would be very unlikely, plus an unknowable detail in-universe. While you've raised some good points, and I don't ever want to dismiss anyone outright, I've often had the feeling that you're trying to get me to write what you want. I have to agree that you're being rude. This has often been a pattern of behavior when I haven't adopted something that you wanted. When something is really terrible, you can say so, but making up sarcastic jokes is insulting.

text removed

Reds8n

You think that you're better at evaluating it because you're German? I thought you were from Norway.

Noorway is a Germanic country, and basically yes.

This is starting to get a little weird...

Whatever, this should just be closed down as I'm quite tired of watching this thread who long should be closed. And I consider calling the mods to close this gak down.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Noorway is a Germanic country, and basically yes.

But Norway is not Germany, which is where IE is getting/basing his information off of (probably not so much anymore), and while Norway is a Germanic nation, I would be surprised to see people of Germany on Dakka contributing to a piece of 40k fan fiction that has pieces that are eerily similar to WW2 era Germany, which Germans don't like talking about because it's a very dark mark on an otherwise proud and decent nation. This also could very explain why you're being as abrasive as you are, because Norway was one of the nations under German occupation during that time period.

Also you should probably take a break from this thread man, you're breaking rule 1 a few times, and you're not providing anything really constructive, you're just saying that his work is gak, and that this thread should be closed down. Too bad that closing this thread down won't make Sturmkrieg disappear, since he is hosting the fiction off Dakka.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Whatever, this should just be closed down as I'm quite tired of watching this thread who long should be closed. And I consider calling the mods to close this gak down.

If you don't like a thread then don't post in it or read it.

Any further posts you make in this thread will be treated as spam, warnings and/or suspensions will be handed out accordingly.

On topic though, I really reckon you should start from the ground up. I know that sounds bad, but think of it like this. At the moment, they central part of your faction, as much as you might wish it otherwise, is the german/russian thing, when it seems like the revolution gone bad would make a better centrepiece.

So why not start from scratch and make up a revolution gone bad. Use no names (instead use Character X, Location Y), and chart a quick timeline of the revolution, key players, and when the Imperium/Mechanicum/Whoever gets involved (were they involved early in helping the revolution go bad so the sector was disrupted when they arrived, or did they just arrive and clean up the mess?).

Once you have that you can decide upon a sort of theme, be that eastern European, German, what have you, but try to keep in mind what has been said before in your many threads, you probably don't want to be too heavy on that stuff. Use normal 40k names for most of the stuff, and maybe have a Colonel Schaudenfritz here or there, but not every second word a germanized thing because then it just becomes very hard to read.

After that you'll have a good solid background, and a good theme. Yeah it'll need tweaking, but whose work doesn't? I just really reckon taking it back to this step is your best chance, instead of working off the existing material which is too heavily germanised/russianised/what have you.

That's pretty good advice.
I'd also suggest that if you do use a theme don't use the names and words from whatever country just use their organisation and the ways they did things. I think that would work better.

 purplefood wrote:
That's pretty good advice.
I'd also suggest that if you do use a theme don't use the names and words from whatever country just use their organisation and the ways they did things. I think that would work better.

Yeah, that's true. A lot of worlds were originally named after cities. Making up new names and words that don't already exist helps a lot. Lord Kesharq did a good job with planet names for the Sturmkrieg Sector. I also stand by the realization that I came to that German words in 40k look terrible most of the time and that it works much better to use pseudo German words, but even that's questionable.

I was bored

I think this is the rebellion you should focus on, with a 40k twist, and would be way more fun and less likely to step somewhere better left alone (WW2, Nazis, Communism, overly Germanisation, etc). General outline of how it would fit in the 40k universe. The ending (which coincides with the current timeframe) also helps cut down on the german words and what not. It's fine having the sector, and an ancient hero, named really heavily german, but you're thing at the moment is way too heavy. And making something faux-german doesn't stop this oversaturation.

It retains mechanicum ties without breaking any established background, is pretty dark, and most of all leads to not-super-germanification-at-the-end. Anyway.

Location; Sturmkrieg Sector ≈ 38,000
Imperial forces invade the sector, quickly overrunning the disparate planets and system-empires. Setting up a puppet government, the Imperial forces moved on and began the process of pacification and Imperialisation. They also take a tithe for the Imperial Guard.

Location; Imperium at large ≈ 39,000
Sturmkrieg forces have been pressed into service as shock troops, earning much glory in the Emperor's name. They had been thrown into war after war, often under the general control of forces who had conducted the initial invasion of their system. This began to breed a certain resentment amongst the forces in several theatres, which built over decades. When they were eventually rotated home near the turn of the millennium, a charismatic General began to scheme. Slowly they gathered men loyal not to the Imperium, but to the ancient lords of the Sturmkrieg sector. When a large Imperial flotilla, with a detachment of Sturmkrieg soldiers aboard who were not involved in the conspiracy, they saw their chance to strike.

Location; Sturmkrieg Sector ≈ 40,000
As the flotilla arrived, in the first year of the new millennium, the rebels struck. Dropping out of warp, the Imperials approached through a debris field made of the ships which tried to stop their initial incursion 2,000 years ago. The field was so dense that the Imperial sensors gave no warning until it was too late. Hidden amongst the debris were the rebels, silent on almost entirely boarding vessels until the last moment. Roaring through space the rebels ambushed the Imperial convoy, killing everyone on board, including, through a tragic mix-up, the Sturmkrieg soldiers aboard, who mistook them for cultists masquerading as fellow Sturmkriegians (whatever). However their victory was to be short lived. With the death of the inspirational General who began the movement at the hands of one of his own Leftenants, the Imperial retaliation swiftly destroyed all remaining opposition. This time, the Imperial Commander decided that the rebellious nature of the sector needed to be addressed. Through a program of intensive colonisation and breeding, the local bloodlines were mostly diluted, and propagandists worked overtime to paint the inspirational General, who simply wanted to free his people, as a brutal dictator who would have turned the sector to the Great Enemy, citing the murder of the loyal Sturmkregian (whatever) soldiers on board the ships as proof of this. That those men simply misunderstood the situation, and the General was a good man, is information which has been repressed to such an extent that it ceased to be.

Location; Sturmkrieg Sector ≈41,000 (i.e. current day)
Nowadays, the Sturmkrieg sector is one of faith in the Emperor, a church on every corner if you will. The breeding program and colonisation introduced in the wake of the rebellion as led to the loss of most of the true Sturmkrieg culture, the ancient language only spoken by scholars and historians with an explicit interest in the area. The Mechanicum has also taken a large part in the reshaping of this system, their machinations and goals their own for now. Despite the repression of their people, some fathers still whisper to their sons that the evil General from history may not have been all he is made out to be, and that bloodlines pure from the ancient times still burn strong somewhere in the system. But this is treated as superstition by local authorities, and corrected. As it should be. Faith in the Emperor yadda yadda.

So the idea is people's names are more normal, instead of being Hans Gruberfeld, they'd be Carl Weber or something, Ralph Becker, that sort of thing, they have German roots but they aren't over the top. Similar with the place names, the root of the name survives but it is Imperialised to cut down on the people identifying with their old history in the way that the General did (I couldn't think of a 40k way to make his name without it being really obvious)

I am working on downplaying the names and selecting other sources for names. I like the overall suggestion, but the time scale is a bit off. For one thing, it's too recent for production of any significant Imperium weapons to occur. I don't really see the problem with the Mechanicum grabbing a sector. Someone under them wants to grab a sector, either for his own personal benefit or for the Mechanicum; that sort of thing happens. It creates background.

One of the things that I've often noticed is a certain rigidity with fanfiction. People come up with their own worlds, sectors, or armies that have their own character, but they're still cut from a mold in a way. I like the Volianvan Sector background, and I think there's a lot of good detail that gives character to it, but it still feels like it was made from a mold to a certain extent. They have a split with the Bevelle sub sector being somewhat independent due to struggles with the Volianvan Sector. Any time something goes into original territory, people can be too quick to deem it "uncannon." Obviously, that shouldn't used to justify total nonsense like the Stardust Empire, but something like replacing a planetary governor with an oligarchy elected by nobles is workable. The most recent rulebook even says that the "Imperium" doesn't care how planets are run, as long as they observe loyalty to the Imperium and don't do anything like worship Chaos.

Thanks for taking the time to write that suggestion; I appreciate it. I'll consider it. Exalted.

I should also add that all elements of pre Mechanicum Sturmkrieg are destroyed after the revolution, with the effect of preventing any counter revolution.

I found a lot of Sturmkrieg-like micronations on the micronation wiki. It was weird... I get the feeling that some of these people don't separate fiction from reality very well. I start writing about a fictional totalitarian society that's "awesome" and yet I still recognize that it wouldn't be a good idea to actually establish it. I'm not so sure about some of these other people. I'm not sure what Dondrekhan's views on Communism are, but I doubt that even he thinks that creating a Sturmkrieg-like civilization would be a good idea in reality.

Micronations =/= fictional nations, apart from the Micras community.
Don't confuse, please.

 Lord of Timbraxia wrote:
Micronations =/= fictional nations, apart from the Micras community.
Don't confuse, please.

I understand the difference, and that's what the concern is about. I don't worry when people make cool fictional versions of the USSR such as Valhalla or Red Alert, but I get concerned when people make a micronation, which is supposed to be real, and talk about how they plan to make it like the USSR or the German Empire. I don't care if people use the German Empire for thematic purposes, as GW did with Krieg, but it shows a disconnect with reality or desire for oppression when someone seriously wants to recreate the USSR. Also, the people who want to bring back the German Empire are all morons with a serious disconnect from reality.

What's the point that you're trying to make with this?

 LoneLictor wrote:
What's the point that you're trying to make with this?

^That and how is it actually related to your stuff beyond others sharing similar interests.

 LoneLictor wrote:
What's the point that you're trying to make with this?

There's not too much. I saw people doing this recently and I found it... disturbing. It's important to separate what's "cool" in a fiction sense from what's cool when it actually exists. Since micronations are "real," it's disturbing when people insert stuff like this into them.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
What's the point that you're trying to make with this?

There's not too much. I saw people doing this recently and I found it... disturbing. It's important to separate what's "cool" in a fiction sense from what's cool when it actually exists. Since micronations are "real," it's disturbing when people insert stuff like this into them.

So, you're saying that you saw other fake German nations like yours and were horrified?

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
What's the point that you're trying to make with this?

There's not too much. I saw people doing this recently and I found it... disturbing. It's important to separate what's "cool" in a fiction sense from what's cool when it actually exists. Since micronations are "real," it's disturbing when people insert stuff like this into them.

So, you're saying that you saw other fake German nations like yours and were horrified?

No. People trying to create literal versions of the German Empire in the real world. Those people need to learn what's cool in a story and what's cool in real life. A highly militaristic civilization based on WWI Germans is cool in a game. In real life it led to WWII.

To put it another way, I doubt that the people who work for GW who created Krieg would advocate for recreating the German Empire in reality.

Oh...

So you just decided to drop by and remind us all that the German Empire wasn't good, in case we'd forgotten.

How exactly does this relate to your fluff?

LoneLictor wrote:Oh...

So you just decided to drop by and remind us all that the German Empire wasn't good, in case we'd forgotten.

I'm not totally sure, but the nationalism wasn't. It was understandable and reasonable at the time after being occupied by France, but now with the historical perspective and the fact that it led to eastern front, any serious attempt to bring it back is severely deluded.

purplefood wrote:How exactly does this relate to your fluff?

It doesn't really we should stop. It makes clear that I make the distinction, on the chance that people who don't should see it. Which they probably won't

Purplefood, is your title having to do with the fact that Resin Forge called Dakka Dakka and Lexicanum a cult?

Slightly yes...
Also, back to your fluff. I don't think anyone seriously think you want to create the 4th Reich because of your fluff. You do seem slightly obsessed with both WWII era Soviets and Nazi Germany in pretty much all of the posts I have ever seen you post. That is more likely to convince people you are some kind of neo-nazi...

One of the reasons I'm making it less German is because of how much I dislike German nationalist kiddies and how I think it's a bit... excessive to limit one's interest in it. It has a great theme, particularly in WWI, and it's a really interesting story of a nation coming to power, but seriously supporting it with historical perspective is foolish.

I think the main reason you should make it less German is because it sucked like that...
It's not a particularly original theme either. There's hundreds of years of history totally untouched, dozens of civilisations and people still flock to WWII because it's fairly recent and in the 40k universe it's easy to use.

 purplefood wrote:
I think the main reason you should make it less German is because it sucked like that...
It's not a particularly original theme either. There's hundreds of years of history totally untouched, dozens of civilisations and people still flock to WWII because it's fairly recent and in the 40k universe it's easy to use.

I don't normally repeat myself this frequently but this^^. Start again and pick a better theme, this is dead in the water considering the changes that you do make when you get around to it.

 purplefood wrote:
I think the main reason you should make it less German is because it sucked like that...
It's not a particularly original theme either. There's hundreds of years of history totally untouched, dozens of civilisations and people still flock to WWII because it's fairly recent and in the 40k universe it's easy to use.

I also went for the French Revolution, because that is a problem. I was also thinking something like the WWII US in relation to production, which is WWII, but no one does that side. German stuff for the most part sucks. It doesn't fit outside of WWI if you aren't doing Nazis, unless you add something else to it.

You could always go with something like the Italy thing.

Have city states that are constantly at war with each other until they grow to control entire regions (and are still at war with each other every now and then) then eventually one conquers the others with assistance from the Mechnicus (Or maybe just the Imperium). The planet is brought into the Imperium and a better age begins...

Basically ditch WWII. It's been done. Over done. It is tired and clichéd in 40k.

Two of the important things that I see that really need work are the way that Sturmkrieg fits in with the Mechanicum and Imperium, and the German names and themes.

It's also important to blend the German and Russian themes without cutting two themes in half and gluing them together. I think the current flag accomplishes that well; it's vaguely Soviet, but still fits with the theme of the Mechanicum. Regardless of the theme, it still a perfect fit for the Mechanicum.

I also don't really care for any German Empire specific stuff, other than the time period. Probably something similar to Krieg.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Two of the important things that I see that really need work are the way that Sturmkrieg fits in with the Mechanicum and Imperium, and the German names and themes.

You keep coming back and saying 'this is the important thing to change', then doing nothing to make it better.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
It's also important to blend the German and Russian themes without cutting two themes in half and gluing them together. I think the current flag accomplishes that well; it's vaguely Soviet, but still fits with the theme of the Mechanicum. Regardless of the theme, it still a perfect fit for the Mechanicum.

So what if the flag fits (can we get a picture of it here so we can see it and judge that for ourselves, because I'd be surprised if it is as good of a fit as you claim). The actual fluff of the whole thing is the problem, not the flag.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
I also don't really care for any German Empire specific stuff, other than the time period. Probably something similar to Krieg.

I don't get what you mean by this, you are going to go bleak generic WW1 siege/trench warfare stuff as opposed to your WW2 nazi/communist stuff?

I realize that I need to make the changes, but I'm also putting into words where I see problems.

The last bit wasn't explained very well. I've been feeling down recently because of some of the people who I've encountered who get a bit to serious with the whole German Empire nationalism thing, without realizing the distinction between what's "cool" in fiction and in real life. I mentioned that recently and I didn't want to go into it again. What I meant is that I was going for the 19th century retro futuristic German theme, and that I wasn't getting caught up in any foolish ideas about German power or nationalism.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

The last bit wasn't explained very well. I've been feeling down recently because of some of the people who I've encountered who get a bit to serious with the whole German Empire nationalism thing, without realizing the distinction between what's "cool" in fiction and in real life.

So what. That is completely unrelated to you fixing your fluff. The problem isn't that some randoms you know take German nationalism seriously (and really how is taking 19th century German nationalism seriously that bad of a thing (other than the fact it's a bit dated) or any worse than any kind of current nation nationalism). The problem is that your fluff has a lot of holes, inconsistencies with the established universe, an overabundance of silly half-German half-whatever names, and tired, overused themes that you seem unable to let go of in any meaningful way.

I realise that may be a bit harsh, but that's twice you've brought up what some randoms think of 19th century German Empire nationalism, and it has nothing to do with you fixing your 40k fluff. At all.

I meant to ask this question before, and forgot. Without it, mentioning this was completely useless.

Here's the idea:

Since the Mechanicum isn't supposed to be acquiring large amounts of territory, that poses a problem for the Sturmkrieg Sector organization.

An alternative that works with what I've worked on is that the leader of the Mechanicum expeditionary force wants to take the sector completely on his own for the Mechanicum, and for his own benefit. One or two hundred years after he dies, the Imperium finds out and they begin to establish Imperium officies and structure.

One thing I have a question about is whether they would start separate militaries. Would they have the Imperial Guard and the Skitarii, or would they just continue to have the Skitarii?

An Imperial presence on a world (so a Governor or something) all but guarantees a PDF of some kind, and depending on how they go about establishing Imperial control and supplanting Mechanicum control, Guard units would be present as well.

But I can't see Skitarii units that took part in controlling a sector outside of the Imperium's control, and in defiance of their laws, as being allowed to exist after this was discovered. The expensive units may be shut down and mindwiped, Praetorians and what not, I don't know how valued they are by the Mechanicum, but the regular Skitarii would probably be cleansed in case any code from the rebellious forces (because that's what they are, by taking over a sector and not paying tithes as required etc, they are rebels and heretics) remains.

 motyak wrote:
An Imperial presence on a world (so a Governor or something) all but guarantees a PDF of some kind, and depending on how they go about establishing Imperial control and supplanting Mechanicum control, Guard units would be present as well.

But I can't see Skitarii units that took part in controlling a sector outside of the Imperium's control, and in defiance of their laws, as being allowed to exist after this was discovered. The expensive units may be shut down and mindwiped, Praetorians and what not, I don't know how valued they are by the Mechanicum, but the regular Skitarii would probably be cleansed in case any code from the rebellious forces (because that's what they are, by taking over a sector and not paying tithes as required etc, they are rebels and heretics) remains.

They would still pay taxes and send forces to the Imperium and everything else required from the moment that they become part of the Mechanicum. If it's still not right, then the Volianvan Sector could probably step in after establishment and begin setting up Imperium offices and structure. I can see having the Skitarii and Imperial Guard. They could function mostly the same way within the sector, but just be controlled by different organizations. There would be some specific differences, such as the Imperial Guard having restrictions against having their own transports. Is the Skitarii subject to fewer restrictions than the Imperial Guard, and would this make them better for attacking?