AdMech are my main guys also, but ever since the Skorpius came out it seemed like we were buoyed along by that, and then serberys raiders and our flyers, all of which are no longer broken (?) leaving the rest of the list to kind of stand on it's own? Not sure what direction to go in myself either.
I have basically all the tech priests, some infiltrators, 15 rangers/vanguard, 4 robots, 6 ballistarii, 3 crawlers and 3 disintegrators. Never had enough flyers of serberys raiders to really be energized while those were the tops.
I've got pretty much everything we have (although I haven't finished them all).
My best games have been using the defence cohort simply due to the rules being a little simpler and the high durability and damage output.
The biggest downside to this is the total lack of skitarii units, I love the flyer, dunecrawlers and dragoons and would love to still play with them. I can't even add a Knight to my list to add a little flavour due to the limitations.
Using the codex alone I really don't know where I stand ATM, I' tempted to go stygies with a heavy beta strike putting 3 drills with rustsalkers in reserve using the warlord trait along with some sterylisors in deepstrike.
So if I'm reading a few things right, based on the new knight codex, it seems like a detachment of 3 armigers with Knights of the Cog can retain all their household rules. Plus useful for obsec.
I wasn't sure whether to post this in the AdMech or Knights thread, maybe I'll repost in both. I'm working on my combined army, and while I normally play Metalica + Raven synergy, that's CP expensive and the starting CP will likely be halved in the next GT mission pack (though you gain 2CP per turn instead).
I've come up with this, which has been quite strong in test games.
Spoiler:
1995pts, -4 CP Freeblade Super-heavy Auxiliary [-0 CP, Agent of the Imperium]
Canis Rex, 440 [Warlord: Revered Knight; Wandering Hero]
-Virtue of Courage, Knight's Faith, Warrior's Hope
House Krast Super-heavy Auxiliary [-1 CP, Knight of the Cog]
3 Armiger Warglaives, Meltaguns, 450 [Knight Baron -1 CP: Ion Bulwark; Heart of Iron]
The army mostly does what it says on the tin. The infantry are at breakpoints to maximize Wrath of Mars. The Warglaives go absolutely nuts in melee with Controlled Aggression and Pack Tactics. Canis Rex is just really good.
The Knights add a lot of play on objectives, where you can fire off an ObSec Warglaive to score Stranglehold. Meanwhile, the other objectives with the rest of the Knights are unapproachable. The AdMech half can poke and prod without committing.
The trick is patience. You spend the minimum to score Stranglehold in the first round or two, while the AdMech grinds them with Canticles/Doctrinas. Then you commit the infantry and Knights in melee.
Consequently, Raise the Banners and Grind Them Down are good secondary picks. To The Last is also a surprisingly good pick, since you score 8 points by just keeping 1 Warglaive and 1 Infiltrator alive (Circuitous Assassins into a back corner). If things go badly, I still score about 30 on secondaries. The list very consistently scores ~60 points.
There's a lot of nuance and tricks to the Knight's teaching and stratagems, not to mention the optimal way to layer Canticles and Doctrinas. I'm still learning, but I could talk for ages on hypothetical plays.
Interesting list...
I might have to copy that one and play it
After looking at it a bit though, I dont think thats a valid list.
Yes, you can get Canis Rex, as a Freeblade and Agent of the Imperium, as your 0 CP SHAUX.
But the Armigers share no Faction Keyword with the AdMech Detachment besides IMPERIUM, so you do not get the refund of 2 CP.
You can sidestep it by taking a SHD and add Canis Rex and his Warglaives there, but that will set you back 3 CP.
Thairne wrote: After looking at it a bit though, I dont think thats a valid list. Yes, you can get Canis Rex, as a Freeblade and Agent of the Imperium, as your 0 CP SHAUX. But the Armigers share no Faction Keyword with the AdMech Detachment besides IMPERIUM, so you do not get the refund of 2 CP. You can sidestep it by taking a SHD and add Canis Rex and his Warglaives there, but that will set you back 3 CP.
That link for the AdMech subreddit is wrong, or at least always assumes the AdMech is the Warlord. I would keep in mind that the AdMech subreddit is mostly a painting blog, and 99% of the players are god-awful. The competitive subreddit is miles better for understanding the rules.
Instead Canis Rex is the Warlord. The new Knight Lances refunds 3 CP for any detachment with the Warlord. The Armigers share a keyword with him, so their detachment costs 1.
The relevant Imperial Knight rules are:
An IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Detachment is one that only includes models with the IMPERIAL KNIGHTS keyword (excluding models with the AGENT OF THE IMPERIUM or UNALIGNED keyword).
IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Detachments gain the Knight Lances and Wandering Hero abilities.
Note that IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments still get these Detachment abilities, even though Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments do not normally gain any Detachment abilities.
If this Detachment contains between 1 and 2 QUESTORIS-CLASS models, or if it contains between 3-5 ARMIGER-CLASS MODELS, this Detachment’s Command Benefits are changed to: ‘+3 Command points if your WARLORD is part of this Detachment.’
Here's my other version of the list using the same principle with Metalica and Raven:
Spoiler:
1995 points, -6 CP House Raven Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment (3 CP refunded due to Knight Lances, chosen as Knight of the Cog) Knight Errant, Meltagun, Thunderstrike, Stormspear, Forgemaster, 500 [Warlord; Knight Baron: Ion Bulwark -1 CP; Spirit of Kolossi; Order of Companions -1 CP]
House Raven Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment (-1 CP due to sharing a keyword with the Warlord's detachment) 3 Armiger Warglaives, Meltaguns, 450 [Knight of the Iron Cog -1CP]
Fair points.
I'll check in with someone that really knows his rules about his oppinion (thousands of games in 9th under his belt), but you make a good point.
Thairne wrote: After looking at it a bit though, I dont think thats a valid list.
Yes, you can get Canis Rex, as a Freeblade and Agent of the Imperium, as your 0 CP SHAUX.
But the Armigers share no Faction Keyword with the AdMech Detachment besides IMPERIUM, so you do not get the refund of 2 CP.
You can sidestep it by taking a SHD and add Canis Rex and his Warglaives there, but that will set you back 3 CP.
That link for the AdMech subreddit is wrong, or at least always assumes the AdMech is the Warlord. I would keep in mind that the AdMech subreddit is mostly a painting blog, and 99% of the players are god-awful. The competitive subreddit is miles better for understanding the rules.
Instead Canis Rex is the Warlord. The new Knight Lances refunds 3 CP for any detachment with the Warlord. The Armigers share a keyword with him, so their detachment costs 1.
The relevant Imperial Knight rules are:
An IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Detachment is one that only includes models with the IMPERIAL KNIGHTS keyword (excluding models with the AGENT OF THE IMPERIUM or UNALIGNED keyword).
IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Detachments gain the Knight Lances and Wandering Hero abilities.
Note that IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments still get these Detachment abilities, even though Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments do not normally gain any Detachment abilities.
If this Detachment contains between 1 and 2 QUESTORIS-CLASS models, or if it contains between 3-5 ARMIGER-CLASS MODELS, this Detachment’s Command Benefits are changed to: ‘+3 Command points if your WARLORD is part of this Detachment.’
Here's my other version of the list using the same principle with Metalica and Raven:
Spoiler:
1995 points, -6 CP House Raven Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment (3 CP refunded due to Knight Lances, chosen as Knight of the Cog)
Knight Errant, Meltagun, Thunderstrike, Stormspear, Forgemaster, 500 [Warlord; Knight Baron: Ion Bulwark -1 CP; Spirit of Kolossi; Order of Companions -1 CP]
House Raven Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment (-1 CP due to sharing a keyword with the Warlord's detachment)
3 Armiger Warglaives, Meltaguns, 450 [Knight of the Iron Cog -1CP]
The Canis list works because he is a character and thus can be chosen as warlord. This allows you to use Knight Baron on an armiger for bulwark / bastards helm.
Your metalica/raven list does not work however as Knight Baron requires an existing knight warlord for it to be used and unless you are playing a 500pt game where SHA's can choose a knight to be a character, you must use a SHD to get a character which means losing knight of the cog.
Warlords don't have to be characters. Check the core rules. Any model can be the Warlord, even a random member of an infantry squad. Warlords that are characters get a Warlord trait, but that's not strictly necessary.
Once my Raven Knight is the Warlord, he's eligible for Knight Baron to make him a character. He gains a Warlord trait from it, which makes the default free Warlord trait redundant, but I accept a small inefficiency. The important thing is he becomes a character, so he's then eligible for the free Heirloom Relic granted by having a Knight Warlord.
I've played v little and the only thing I've had success with in defence cohort, 12 robots, 12 breachers and 3 destroyers.
It only really works along with tempest of war and being lucky (my last game was a 95vs94 win). I've been trying to think of another way to play but skitarii are just too weak and mixed lists don't seem to work.
I'm just waiting for the points update, I'm legit expecting us to get another round of increases.
pts changes from the app.
This is pitiful.
First the overnerf, then no updates in o the data slate, then the underwhelming secondary changes and now this token adjustment that takes... 16-26 pts of some lists?
And stay tuned for the latest Balance Dataslate, which drops tomorrow with a bundle of fresh tweaks to keep things competitive.
A little hope is left. But only a little.
Chickens getting CORE back is p big. CP revert to Enriched Rounds and Galvanic Volley is pretty nice. Hard to tell if the use restriction on Acquisition and Clandestine will matter as much given the new CP drought but we will see.
Says in the article they're getting reverted. The nerfs still existing was my first read until I found the article.
Quote:
"Finally, the Adeptus Mechanicus have a number of their earlier restrictions rolled back in light of the changing competitive landscape, with Ironstrider Ballistarii and Sydonian Dragoons regaining the CORE keyword. Several previously limited Stratagems like Acquisition at All Costs and Clandestine Infiltration have had their usage limitations removed, while others’ increased Command point costs revert to their initial levels."
warcom isnt a rules source though.. and they've been wrong before.
So unless they're removed from the FAQ, the nerfs are still in effect.
Now if anyone would oppose me reverting them in a friendly game, I'd look him in the eye and leave without a word.
Assuming the FAQ will be updated in the next week or so, how are people feeling about this?
I still think I'm going to struggle but it now means I can bring mixed lists again and not feel like I'm hurting myself. Dragoons (my fave unit) are back to being usable, I can bring some skitarii and see how they last but have a heavy squad of breachers to fill a gap.
My old pre NERF list had a Culexus but since the low CP levels I'm going to test out a Calidus, I think the risk to the opponents CP early game could potentially help.
Overalll I think we'll still be a middling at best army but at least we have some options back.
No way around that, yes.
Unless you somehow can get a shared faction keyword between your warlord and the armigers, which is not possible to the best of my knowledge
Fishborne wrote: Did the knight of the Cog keyword get removed? Why is everyone saying Knights cost 3cp when they should cost 0cp? (For a super aux)
becuase the 0CP super aux is tied to having a shared faction keyword...which admech and knights do not have (discounting IMPERIUM). the rule is intended to allow orks to take stompas, and necrons their monoliths, but not give admech or marines "free" access to knights.
seems like it. Im currently not really running my admech, i never really got past 500points with them. im looking at pushing that up to 1k but not anytime soon. i just....decided to concentrate on other armies.
I mean Adm is pretty dead.
There's no new stuff, new rules or new tactics to talk about. The faction performs terribly. The buffs "just" undid nerfs, so back to already talked about levels.
When in about 3-4 Weeks the next dataslate drops and something is in for "us" again...
i've tried to use my admech since i havent touched them in a long time and they just dont work... Far, far too many pre-game CP demands imo. And with codex creep as bad as it is most of the codex is just "meh" and very little stands out.
Not sure if theyre worse than Guard right now but pretty damn low on the totem pole.
Our 5-week average win rate is still holding steady at 39% (below even Guard's 41% and Chaos Demon's 44%) so yeah, we are worse off that the remaining 8th edition codexes.
Of the 9th edition codexes,we have the lowest faction winrate (though some subfactions with very few games played, like Raven Guard and Imperial fists, are lower).
Lets hope the next balance patch takes us out of trash-tier.
I'd say build them rule of cool. Build what you like. I don't think we'll bee competitive again in 9th and there is no way to tell what 10th will bring.
I'd build the special weapons but used the uncowled heads so they could stand in as either vanguard or rangers. Arquebus is a pretty safe bet for rangers, methinks.
I really dislike that the community has hit this space of dead air for tactics and battle reports, but you can't blame anyone with AdMech's recent performance.
I finally got my second game of 9th AdMech last week and got wrecked. Finally got to try out my wingbois and horsebois. Loved the cavalry, most of everything got shot off the board by turn 3 though. Vanguard and Sicarians were the MVPs for what little I accomplished.
Mariongodspeed wrote: Our 5-week average win rate is still holding steady at 39% (below even Guard's 41% and Chaos Demon's 44%) so yeah, we are worse off that the remaining 8th edition codexes.
Of the 9th edition codexes,we have the lowest faction winrate (though some subfactions with very few games played, like Raven Guard and Imperial fists, are lower).
Lets hope the next balance patch takes us out of trash-tier.
Oof.
Also, admech has the highest difference between vet and casual players.
Which means... the codex itself is just very tough to play. Which we know already.
But it also means, even with the dataslab doing "good" things, the complexity will still remain...
I don't necessarily want a return to cutting edge competitiveness, I just want the army out of the "solved" hole it's in. Especially where the Skitarii/Mechanicus split is concerned. Canticles could use some love to help them stack up against the Imperatives, and if that means Mars dogma is changed to avoid constantly stacking two types of army-wide buffs each turn, so be it. As it is, the book is Codex: Skitarii with guest starring Tech-Priests, occasionally the cheeky unit of electro-priests.
Madjob wrote: I don't necessarily want a return to cutting edge competitiveness, I just want the army out of the "solved" hole it's in. Especially where the Skitarii/Mechanicus split is concerned. Canticles could use some love to help them stack up against the Imperatives, and if that means Mars dogma is changed to avoid constantly stacking two types of army-wide buffs each turn, so be it. As it is, the book is Codex: Skitarii with guest starring Tech-Priests, occasionally the cheeky unit of electro-priests.
I just want a return to Skitarii being allowed to use 3 of one special weapon in a squad.
It’s a simple change for the disciples of the Machine God – all changes to the Adeptus Mechanicus from previous Balance Dataslates have been removed.
As they are still struggling to reach their optimised position in the wider metagame, we have removed all existing restrictions and modifications from the Adeptus Mechanicus army. There was a point in the not-too-distant past where the armies of the Omnissiah were overperforming, and a number of restrictions were applied in earlier Balance Dataslates to rein them in. These have proven too impactful in the current environment, so we will see how they perform using the rules from their codex and the latest points values in the Munitorum Field Manual.
Thats a very generous sounding way to say Lucius gets their +1 save vs damage 1 weapons while in cover back and enriched rounds goes back to wounding non-vehicles on a 4+ to hit instead of a 5+.
Thats 2 nieche nerfrs removed. Its not going to signficanlty change our win rate. It looks like atleast another 3 months of my admech collecing dust on the shelf and now hoping for MFM points changes to make us no longer trash-tier. Yay. Thanks GW!
FAQ still stands, but there wasnt much in there other than clarifications.
I think the only actual "nerf" thats still a nerf and not rescinded is we cant use Booster Thrust on units that just arrived, which is a cheesestrat anyway.
It is rather nice they did it that way as i can almost just use the codex again instead of constantly referencing the datasheet to see if that change i know happened is still a change or not.
make those 3 months into 6 months.
Why?
January marks the death of the Skitarii Veteran Cohort.
And the next dataslate will be out shortly after, so the resulting net power loss for the army, which is almost exclusively run as a SVC, will not reflect that.
Oh boi, fun times for Admech most definitely are coming.
Frankly, they need to just put AdMech back into the forge.
Skitarii Veteran Cohort's rules need to be placed onto the Skitarii, period.
Limit Rangers to unit size of 10 tops while Vanguard keep the 20 unit size.
Remove Calivers from Rangers and Arquebi from Vanguard, give Arquebi the whole "line" nonsense we saw with the magnarail in LoV and see where things go from there.
Kanluwen wrote: Frankly, they need to just put AdMech back into the forge.
Skitarii Veteran Cohort's rules need to be placed onto the Skitarii, period.
Limit Rangers to unit size of 10 tops while Vanguard keep the 20 unit size.
Remove Calivers from Rangers and Arquebi from Vanguard, give Arquebi the whole "line" nonsense we saw with the magnarail in LoV and see where things go from there.
Why does it matter if Rangers have Plasma and Vanguard have Arqs?
Kanluwen wrote: Frankly, they need to just put AdMech back into the forge.
Skitarii Veteran Cohort's rules need to be placed onto the Skitarii, period.
Limit Rangers to unit size of 10 tops while Vanguard keep the 20 unit size.
Remove Calivers from Rangers and Arquebi from Vanguard, give Arquebi the whole "line" nonsense we saw with the magnarail in LoV and see where things go from there.
Why does it matter if Rangers have Plasma and Vanguard have Arqs?
Im going to randomly guess that in the first Skitarii book that is how they set it up, but maybe not? I don’t know why Mechanicus would need more restrictions.
With rumors swirling about point reductions and a Core added to Kataphrons, anyone excited that our faction might make a slight comeback. Nowhere to go but up when you're at the bottom, right?!
I'm a new admech player and haven't actually used the army yet but I'm looking forward to trying to get some play out of the codex! Want to try and get my first 1k game in January once I've finished painting.
The bombers are very good, even after a price increase. With the chaff launcher they're 170 pts, deal mortal wounds, -1 to hit and -1 damage and can double turn and hover making them VERY mobile. They can also slow something down.
I struggle to not take them in a list and they're a great distraction to help keep your guns safe, I'd definitely take one at 1000 pts.
Warhammer Community wrote:The Adeptus Mechanicus is another faction that has received a suitable amount of tinkering as we try to improve their win-rate relative to the other armies in the game. Kataphon Breachers and Destroyers now receive the CORE keyword, and every unit with Bionics improves its invulnerable save to 5+. That includes Skitarii Rangers and Vanguard, Kataphron Breachers and Destroyers, smaller Servitors, and both flavours of Ironstrider Engine.
We hope that this latest round of improvements will boost the Machine Cult’s performance and help them claw their way up from the bottom of the win-rate rankings!
I also have 4 dragoons and I am here for this, especially with the new bionics rules. Looks like Kataphrons are great now and Onagers at 100 with wargear look solid. I'm really excited to get my tin men on the table after these changes
I'm considering swapping back in after playing my sisters for a long time thinking of trying 3x onager 3x disintegrator 3x warglaive probably with Raiders filling up the mid board and a couple of vanguard or corpuscarii for the Mars strat
Your probably saving about 150pts compared to pre changes on the onagers disintegrators and characters.
but is it enough though? The codex is stilll deeply complicated. Other armies got huge pts drops and buffs as well.
Nephilim style CP is still around. Veteran Cohort has one advantage for free, the others are gone.
That is the question and it's difficult to know without data
Not all factions were buffed my other army was Sisters where your looking at pts increase, mission nerf and loss of AoC they are clearly worsening significantly.
I'm looking at a 8.5% points reduction buffed secondaries an extra Hvy slot no Troop tax and no cp for my knights or reserves and not having to deal with AoC so our guns are more lethal vs a third of the field.
There are two big CP changes from nephillim. One is that reserves are free if your looking for a vanguard/ corpuscarii + mars strat to come in from the side that's a reduction.
Also the super heavy aux is free if you want to freeblade a knight or some armigers also since they are now agent of the imperium your not limited to mechanicus knights so while yes the rawCP numbers are the same the demands on them have decreased
I think it's clear that in armies like Sisters the win percentage will drop while in admech the win percentage will rise the question is how much comparatively. Ask yourself would you rather be playing a midrange dropping faction or a rising one that we dont know by how much
Cobbling together a list from what I have painted, partially built, and in box:
Rough list idea:
Spoiler:
Mars AoO Detachment
HQ:
Belisarius Cawl
[160]
Technoarcheologist
Artisans
[85]
Manipulus
Logi
[120]
Troops:
(6) Kataphron Destroyers
Plasma
[270]
(6) Kataphron Destroyers
Heavy Grav & Flamers
[240]
Elites:
(5) Sicarian Infiltrators
[85]
(5) Sicarian Infiltrators
[85]
Fast:
(3) Sydonian Dragoons
Tasers
[165]
(6) Serberys Raiders
[108]
(3) Ironstrider Ballistarii
Lacannons
[255]
Heavy:
Onager
Neutron
[100]
Onager
Neutron
[100]
Onager
Icarus
[100]
Skorpius Disintigrator
[125]
[1998]
Just basically a little bit of everything... which I guess is good for a faction? I don't really want to run Skitarii, but have some if that becomes a necessity.
This is what I'm thinking of more Skitarii focussed
Although it amuses me you don't want to run skitarii and suggest 9 units with the skitarii keyword
If I was to critics your list your spending to much on HQ 365pts is a big chunk of your army
Spoiler:
Mars AoO Detachment
HQ:
Skitari Marshal exemplars of eternity firepower telemetry
[50]
Tech priest enginseer 50 Warlord
Troops:
(15) Vanguard [135] arc maul
(5) Ranger [45] arc maul
Elites:
(5) hoplite eyes of the omnissiah
[50]
Fast:
(4) Sydonian Dragoons
Tasers serpenta
[220]
(9) Serberys Raiders data teather temporcopia
[157]
(9) Serberys Raiders data teather Omniscient mask
[157]
Heavy:
Onager
Neutron
[100]
Onager
Neutron
[100]
Onager
Neutron
[100]
Skorpius Disintigrator
[125] energy cannon
Skorpius Disintigrator
[125] energy cannon
Skorpius Disintigrator
[125] energy cannon
Superheavy Aux hunter of beasts
3x Armiger Warblade + melta gun [450]
2000pts
I would note I'm spending 5CP pregame
However previously this build would have been 8CP pregame and 2254 pts so that's quite a difference and doesn't even include the cost of reserving the Vanguard which is now free
For regular Skitarii, the vanguard and ranger Alphas now get a free melee weapon basically? And the special weapons all went down 5 points, so a plasma caliver is 5?
Will 50 points for 5 vanguard with a caliver and power sword be kinda good?
Generally the caliver is a worth while spending of 5 pts but it's not essential and if all you want is a back field objective holder I can justify not takeing it just to min the cost of the unit
In the same vein as the question about the plasma caliver, does the points change improve the Transuranic Arquebus’ viability in units of Rangers? I have two for Killteam, and I’m wondering if they’re one of the better Skitarii special weapons.
I think it's worth considering at least. It's still 10 points, but it's a good gun. I'm thinking about building one to try it. I used to have one but I disassembled him.
The arquebuses problem was always numbers you needed about 9 to reliably kill small characters
If you only take 3 well one will fail to hit. 1.333 will wound a space marine or guard character with a 4++ that means 0.67 go through averaging at 2 dam if it does not enough to kill
(Now I know you will occasionally get a mw as a bonus but not often)
Of the pistols, I think the Arc or Phosphor Blast Pistol could be a viable choice, but mainly on Vanguard Alphas. I don’t think Rangers will see close combat often enough to warrant the Alpha having a pistol, better to just add to the volley of Galvanic Rifle fire.
for 5 man vanguard objective holders i was considering the arc pistol but I was torn with just going stock on the gun. Definitely arc maul all the way on the melee
I’m out of the loop, but I don’t have enough points to make 2000p of pure Adeptus Mechanicus, are knights still allowed (one free blade?) as Allies without breaking canticles and doctrines and everything?
ph34r wrote: I’m out of the loop, but I don’t have enough points to make 2000p of pure Adeptus Mechanicus, are knights still allowed (one free blade?) as Allies without breaking canticles and doctrines and everything?
short answer: yes.
longer answer: yes, but thiers a new detachment thats replaced the old patrol/battalion/brigade system for matched play, and warlord traits/relics are not free anymore. i would read up about the new army building rules here as it might affect your choices:
-a patrol of Votann
-a super-heavy auxiliary of exactly one Freeblade
-a single Agent of the Imperium i.e. Inquisitor, or
-a patrol of Agents of the Imperium, such as
--basically only Astra Cartographica can field an Agents of the Imperium patrol?
-a patrol of Votann
-a super-heavy auxiliary of exactly one Freeblade
-a single Agent of the Imperium i.e. Inquisitor, or
-a patrol of Agents of the Imperium, such as
--basically only Astra Cartographica can field an Agents of the Imperium patrol?
you can also take agents of the Imperium Auxiliary Support detachment can be any unit with the AGENTS OF THE IMPERIUM keyword, which also includes the Navy Breachers, and i suspect the soon to be released Arbites.
or, like a lot of people, you can just skip the arks of omen stuff and put together a regular detachment. the arks detachment is strictly speaking only supposed to be used with the arks GT pack, and if your not using that it then its a moot point.
What would be the absolute best way to add a big boy Knight to an AdMech list. I want to lean into Kataphrons and Onagers, so I am thinking maybe Mars.
Trying desperately to get back into 40k, but lord has it been hard to justify since we've been at the bottom, so help would be appreciated.
Asside from the obvious that 3 armigers may be more effective than a singular big knight.
You could look at the list above as a vehicle heavy list as a starting template designed to be highly survivable. The conflict between that list and a big knight is that invariably you make Eradication of flesh harder to achieve which that list needs. (the little characters are to take Raise the banners if there is no kill missions). However, there isn't any tourney data for this build (till I run it next week and next month)
So your probably looking At Mars/Lucius/Ryza
Ryza is more melee focussed Mars more all round and Lucius more infantry focused.
I'm not sure there is a best at least not meta data wise whats probably more important is to build to the strengths of each. While aggripina would seem a nice match for your units the metadata says it underperforms.
With buffing characters mainly being attached to one unit at a time, how do you think the army will evolve in 10th edition. I feel like we may see some buffs to our lethality and durability as a whole, albeit maybe with some points increases. What are you guys expecting/hoping for going into this new edition of 40k?
We already know mass low ap firepower is buffed by cover changes as there will be a lot less 2+ so corouscarii vanguard get more favourable but all our characters except enginseer are liable for rewrites so its to early to tell much else it would be nice if one of our characters could actually become a viable melee unit
It'll be interesting to see what the new vehicle rules do for us, hopefully our mighty crab tanks will get some benefit.
I agree. I really hope that some our tougher units start to feel tough on the tabletop, even if that means a points increase. I agree that the Onager really needs some love (side note; I never knew that an onager is also an animal and a siege weapon. Kind of fitting, really).
We already know mass low ap firepower is buffed by cover changes as there will be a lot less 2+ so corouscarii vanguard get more favourable but all our characters except enginseer are liable for rewrites so its to early to tell much else it would be nice if one of our characters could actually become a viable melee unit
I do think it would be interesting to have one of our characters be designed to head into combat with sicarians or electro-priests. That might give those units a little more bite in melee and could serve as a nice buffer in front of a gun line.
Thinking more about HQs, I bet we will see the skitarii marshall only be able to lead units of skitarii. Maybe we could also get an HQ more designed around buffing our cult units, but with how few of those we have currently, I am not counting on it.
So, according to the roadmap pushed out by GW, Admech are going to be 3rd or 4th codex released, sometime in the November/December timeframe. the commentry says we are getting at least "some" new models at that time.
my 2 wild @$$ guesses are we get skitarii LT type and/or a "priestly acolytes" type unit as a cult mechanicus troop option (though time will tell if such a thing would be even a concept in 10ths new force org system.
we know the contempory style of subfactions are going away, to be replaced with themed detachments that are not subfaction/paintscheme locked (so thier might be a "good in melee and plasma" detachment that is representative of how Ryza fights, but any forge world or colour scheme can use it). my guesses would be we see a skitarii cohort type detachment, A preists of mars detachment based on cult mech units, a mechanised robot detachment with bonuses to vehicles, robots, and maybe a knight integration bonus of some sort.
anyone else wish to speculate wildly as to what we might get?
It would be great, but I think a skitarii lieutenant may be a little too similar to the skitarii marshall to happen. I’d love to be able to field some of the 30k battle automata, especially if they had a plastic kit. Also, I look forward to having paint schemes matter less, as I am planning to paint part of my army as Mars and part as Triplex Phall due to my army’s lore, so the detachment system will make dealing with that on the tabletop much easier.
Paint schemes never really mattered. Not with blue blood angels, black white scars etc running and non-marine not many even knows colours. Eldar is only one where colour schemes equally known.
Gw basically formalize what players did already and hopefully remove layers of rules in the process
I still think we are missing some artillery pieces and more servitors. I'd also like some more weird esoteric machinery that scuttles about the battlefield.
Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.
FoxHybrid wrote: Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.
Feels like without more info we are no better off than before the preview.
FoxHybrid wrote: Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.
Feels like without more info we are no better off than before the preview.
I feel like we got a big, big piece with regards to Cult:
Canticles are on the Techpriests now, no longer an armywide ability.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FoxHybrid wrote: Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.
There's far, far too many unknowns to make any definitive "not worth it" statements. The armor save change sucks, but remember that they shoehorned the Troop choice Skitarii into effectively being "Conscripts" with the 9E book and the 20 model squad cap. We weren't going to keep a 4+ save unless they dropped that squad cap back to 10 and they seem to have 0 interest in that.
It's also important to remember that Vanguard are supposed to be the "trash" unit. They weren't supposed to be a premiere, end-all be-all shooter unit. They were supposed to be our "tarpit" for the army at large--hence their old ability that dropped Toughness by 1 for things that get close to them.
Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.
I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way
U02dah4 wrote: Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.
I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way
The problem is that there's two "Skitarii" units(when talking about that specific nomenclature. Faction-wise? Many more).
Vanguard, the souls exposed to deadly doses of radiation from their own weaponry. vs Rangers, the hunters of the Skitarii Legion wielding galvanic rifles.
Rangers are the gunners of the Onagers, protected from the Vanguard are stuffed into a lead-lined radiation containment chamber to pilot the things and their corpses hauled out and replaced with a fresh Vanguard when they finally expire. There's clearly a level of expendability but it isn't pointed at the Ranger side of things.
In any regards, we have "conscript equivalents" in the form of the Kataphron Heavy Battle Servitors and Servitors themselves. We didn't need to downgrade Skitarii Vanguard when they could downgrade Kataphron and release plastic Servitors.
U02dah4 wrote: Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.
I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way
The problem is that there's two "Skitarii" units(when talking about that specific nomenclature. Faction-wise? Many more).
Vanguard, the souls exposed to deadly doses of radiation from their own weaponry.
vs
Rangers, the hunters of the Skitarii Legion wielding galvanic rifles.
Rangers are the gunners of the Onagers, protected from the Vanguard are stuffed into a lead-lined radiation containment chamber to pilot the things and their corpses hauled out and replaced with a fresh Vanguard when they finally expire. There's clearly a level of expendability but it isn't pointed at the Ranger side of things.
In any regards, we have "conscript equivalents" in the form of the Kataphron Heavy Battle Servitors and Servitors themselves. We didn't need to downgrade Skitarii Vanguard when they could downgrade Kataphron and release plastic Servitors.
They aren't "Conscript" equivalents. The Guard aren't Conscripts - they're a well-trained standing army. We are on par with them, with more advanced weaponry, at least as regards Vanguard.
Kataphrons aren't conscripts either. They're mobile heavy weapons teams, essentially. I am fine with them being about what they are currently and a downgrade would make them useless. So hopefully they don't take too much of a hit.
U02dah4 wrote: Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.
I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way
The problem is that there's two "Skitarii" units(when talking about that specific nomenclature. Faction-wise? Many more).
Vanguard, the souls exposed to deadly doses of radiation from their own weaponry.
vs
Rangers, the hunters of the Skitarii Legion wielding galvanic rifles.
Rangers are the gunners of the Onagers, protected from the Vanguard are stuffed into a lead-lined radiation containment chamber to pilot the things and their corpses hauled out and replaced with a fresh Vanguard when they finally expire. There's clearly a level of expendability but it isn't pointed at the Ranger side of things.
In any regards, we have "conscript equivalents" in the form of the Kataphron Heavy Battle Servitors and Servitors themselves. We didn't need to downgrade Skitarii Vanguard when they could downgrade Kataphron and release plastic Servitors.
They aren't "Conscript" equivalents. The Guard aren't Conscripts - they're a well-trained standing army. We are on par with them, with more advanced weaponry, at least as regards Vanguard.
Kataphrons aren't conscripts either. They're mobile heavy weapons teams, essentially. I am fine with them being about what they are currently and a downgrade would make them useless. So hopefully they don't take too much of a hit.
I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket?
Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.
They aren't "Conscript" equivalents. The Guard aren't Conscripts - they're a well-trained standing army.
There was literally a unit called "Conscript Squads" that only just recently got removed. Please don't pretend that I've conflated all Guardsmen with Conscripts, or that I'm the one who tried to argue that Skitarii should be our Conscript equivalent.
We are on par with them, with more advanced weaponry, at least as regards Vanguard.
Well, the Rangers are at least. Vanguard ranks are, per the lore, bolstered with serfs and penal colony "recruits". The Alphas are failed Knight Aspirants though.
Kataphrons aren't conscripts either.
They're Servitors, not soldiers. People aren't willingly agreeing to be lobotomized, cut in half, and forcibly fused to a tank body with guns replacing their arms.
They're effectively "Conscripts +1".
They're mobile heavy weapons teams, essentially.
Which is why they were BS4+ without Mindlock, compared to the 'standard' Servitor who was 5+ with Mindlock giving a 4+.
I am fine with them being about what they are currently and a downgrade would make them useless. So hopefully they don't take too much of a hit.
There's a ton of downgrades that could be done without rendering them useless. A bump downwards in armor, a reduction in unit caps, etc.
I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket? Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.
Unless Servitors drop to a 5+ as well, the guy wearing a jumpsuit with exposed bionics is a 4+ save while the same augmented individuals wearing combat armor and combat augmetics is less protected.
I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket?
Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.
They have a 6++ to show they have some basic level of bionics.
They have a 6++ to replace the FNP(6+) they initially debuted with.
The 4+ save was representing their bionics being of a sturdy manufacture and Skitarii War Plate. It's the same reason as to why regular ol' Servitors in their jumpsuit had a 4+ save at the time of the publication for C: Skitarii.
I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket?
Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.
Unless Servitors drop to a 5+ as well, the guy wearing a jumpsuit with exposed bionics is a 4+ save while the same augmented individuals wearing combat armor and combat augmetics is less protected.
Agreed, kataphrons should be 3+ and skitarii vanguard and rangers should be 4+.
Look at the figure these guys don't just have a few bionics they are mostly metal. The legs and arms are metal they are covered in metal including full helms. Unless it is litteraly mad of tinfoil these guys should all have high saves.
About the only. Unit in admech that should be a 5+ or even 6+ are the electro priests and due to lore they should have an invuln probably around a 4++.
At the end of the day we will have to wait and see how. This pans out it just rubs me the wrong way that a guy fully encased in metal has the same save as a guards men.
U02dah4 wrote: Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.
I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way
Skitarii don't look to have bs5 which is conscript level.
4+ is trained soldier level. And am has easy way to make it 3+. Gw likely didn't want army wide 2+ to hit.
ok, so a tibit form todays teaser on the forge world stuff:
basically, all Horus heresy stuff that has been "ported over" to regular 40k is moving into Legends. It will get 10th ed rules, but these are not tourney legal anymore and wont be getting balance passes, being a pure casual games only, "one and done" job.
of note for the Admech is that Secutarii Hoplites and Peltasts, and Terrax-pattern Termites are on that list of "not competitive legal" units.
only forge world stuff thats staying 40k competitive are all the Knights, and the custodes stuff (seeing as FW stuff is like half their range, that makes sense).
Theirs a interesting focus around units operating in close concert with BATTLELINE units that I like on a conceptual level. I need to see how it plays but it's cool
I think they nerfed Skitarii too hard.
The Cult Mech side of things still looks basically unusable with the exception of manipulus, Breachers and Kastellans.
Otherwise, I think that 3 Disintegrators backed by 3 Enginseers might be a staple. The guns on those are really good.
Have you guys played any games so far this edition? If so, I’d love to hear how you guys did, as well as what units you liked in what roles, and what you feel like didn’t work. I’ve heard very good things about the Omnipulus (Omni-sterilizer Manipulus) and Breachers, but not too much outside of that.
Now that the edition has had some time to breath, I don't think Admech is as bad as some people are making them out to be, but they definitely have issues. I've seen a couple unique lists pop up in medium sized events with 20-35 people that ended in the top 4, but right now there are a few armies that are capturing most of the meta with random outliers doing alright in most events.
My biggest issue is that some of the data sheets don't have a lot of depth and the points costs on most things is rather low as it is already, so it's hard for them to adjust Admech in the future by simply tweaking points. I'd rather they had made Ironstriders more expensive but have similar profiles to 9th Edition, as it would make it easier for new players getting into the game because they would need less units and offer GW more ways of adjusting the power level down the line.
With all of that being said, if they reign in the handful of dominant armies, Admech can probably be ok although they will have very weird lists most likely. So I don't hate the army in tenth, I'm just confused about some of their choices. I am a fan of simplifying the rules, but this might be a little too simple, though hopefully they roll out more modifiers and modifications with the advent of digital rules to give more Forge World options and the like so that there's more variety and optionality.
Now where I really take issue is the Combat Patrol, as it really sets up new players to fail with how it asks them to build out their units. It's still a good value, but it's both underpowered and not functional for larger games. If you're interested there's a whole video I made with my thoughts on the matter:
I got kerb stomped during both but destroyers overwatching on a 5+ during the movement phase is a really powerful deterrent to a section of the board.
Breachers are pretty durable too but they don't seem to have the damage output to match their durability.
Dunecrawlers did nothing for me which I found disappointing.
Skitarii are just... bad... but they buff other units so are needed, I found them better hiding in a boat until they're required.
Dogs did nothing but they're a pretty good distraction.
I hope that helps.
Kind of surprised the Destroyers did so well, I expected them to be on the weaker end but they do have a low price so you might be onto something. I don't really plan to run Skitarii, outside of a couple Vanguard units to support Breachers, which is a shame as they were the main focus in 9th Edition and that probably hurts a lot of players who built in that direction only to have the rug pulled out from under them.
I've only played one game so far (with a 2nd one due this Wednesday coming) feels like admech are a little unfinished atm, just need to wait until their actual release.
Anyway I used the following at 2k
Dominus with Steriliser
Manipulus with Annihilator
Enginseer
Vindicare
2x6 H-Arc Breachers one led by Dominus, one lead by Manipulus
10 Vanguard (1 Arc, 1 Plasma) led by Enginseer
2x6 Sulphurhounds with 2 Blaster Carbines
2x3 Sydonian Dragoons
2 Onager with Neutron and double stubbers
They were up against Iron Warriors the following is a rough estimate of what they brought
Chaos Lord in Termi Armor
Warpsmith
Dark Commune
Master of Executions
5 Terminators with Reaper
2 Obliterators
2x10 Legionaries with 1 Plasma, 1 Melta
3x20 Cultists
5 Havocs with Lascannons
2 Maulerfiends
Forgefiend
I think the game was just a case of I brought the right things it we called for time as it was looking as if he would be tabled by the end of the 3rd-4th round.
Similarly to others in the thread I have also only played one game. It was not as bad as I expected at all, faced off against necrons in the rulebook mission and got a narrow win.
Things I noticed:
- Breachers are by far our best unit, especially with tech priest support and Skitarii nearby. Full re rolls is absolutely clutch, they are capable of crushing vehicles and heavy infantry without much of a struggle but they need to be properly supported.
- Ironstriders on paper look poor but protector imperative and sustained hits is actually quite good if engaging the enemy at range. I have 4 of them in my list and they were hitting alot more than I expected. Their points cost is extremely cheap as well and I could happily take more.
- Skorpius disintegrators have excellent firepower but the points cost is too high for what you are getting. If you compare space marine tanks to ours in terms of points its actually ridiculous.
There were a few other things I noted in passing, skitarii are pretty weak, rustalkers aren't anywhere near as good as they used to be and Onagers are very tough.
I'm playing again this week and I'm adding more Breachers to take me up to 12 and some pteraxii for objective stealing and action performance. Also playing at an event at the end of August and planning on bringing admech so that will be interesting, my general look on a 2k list is...
Dominus Omni sterilizor
Manipulus master anihilator
Tech priest engineseer.
1 x vanguard
2 x rangers
2 X 6 Breachers with arc rifles
4 ironstriders (2 individuals and a squad of 2)
2 X serberys raiders
1 x Pteraxii sterilizors
1 x Onager
1 x Skorpius disintegrator
Would ideally drop the rangers and put in more ironstriders but they aren't painted yet, will see how I get on.
Heavily contemplating dropping the Balistarii and Infiltrators for more Vanguard, just to make sure my two blocks of Breachers benefit as long as possible from the buff.
Depends on where you are putting both the dominus. Assuiming you have the models to do so I would probably swap some units around like so.
Swap Master Annihilator Dominus to a Manipulus with the same enhancement. You lose out on the FnP but hit harder with lethal hits and still have access to a 4++ for when people do try and hit them with the big guns.
Swap Infiltrators to Rustalkers. I think this change is more dependant on your plan to use them and your local opponents but I feel that Rustalkers will fare better than Infiltrators for most cases of usage.
Swap both units of Raiders for Sulphurhounds. Again not entirely certain on your plan to use these guys outside of harassing and eating shots/charges for you core units. Devasting Wounds is nice for them but with how small and fragile 3 model units will be Sulphurhounds should be able to put out more hurt in a turn and have the benefit of being cheaper.
With these ideas in mind changing the Dragoons to 1x3 would leave you with 90 (60 if you only remove a dragoon) it does leave the matter of what leader to get for your electropriests.
Technoarcheologist, having the extra OC is nice for objectives but at the same time the anti reinforcement bubble could end up doing more harm than good, depends entirely on how you use it.
Manipulus, with omni steriliser (if affordable) the flamer is really nice to have and again access to a 4++ for a phase can also come in clutch. Just a shame that lethal hits synergizes poorly with the staves.
Enginseer, is the cheapest option and can buff their transport to 4++ before moving out (afaik you don't have to deploy already embarked in a transport) and has upgradable melee should the transport (or a nearby dragoon) end up destroyed close by.
If my changes did end up being used I would personally use the following leaders:
Tech Priest Enginseer (Fulgarites) - Excoriating Emanation
also if your opponents allow their use you could have X-101 accompany the Enginseer but you would need to give up the steraliser on the Dominus.
Sorry is this was a long read and ended up not being helpful.
From my point of view FNP is way more important than invul. And you must declare at the start of the phase which easily can be wasted that way. I still run manipulus with omni-ster but only because of thic relic.
Infiltrators and raiders I assume are here for missions. And with their's scout moves and infiltration they are good at it (I mean for our index of course). Ruststalkers are probably one of the worst unit in index because they do no damage.
Xirmant wrote:Depends on where you are putting both the dominus. Assuiming you have the models to do so I would probably swap some units around like so.
Swap Master Annihilator Dominus to a Manipulus with the same enhancement. You lose out on the FnP but hit harder with lethal hits and still have access to a 4++ for when people do try and hit them with the big guns.
Swap Infiltrators to Rustalkers. I think this change is more dependant on your plan to use them and your local opponents but I feel that Rustalkers will fare better than Infiltrators for most cases of usage.
Swap both units of Raiders for Sulphurhounds. Again not entirely certain on your plan to use these guys outside of harassing and eating shots/charges for you core units. Devasting Wounds is nice for them but with how small and fragile 3 model units will be Sulphurhounds should be able to put out more hurt in a turn and have the benefit of being cheaper.
With these ideas in mind changing the Dragoons to 1x3 would leave you with 90 (60 if you only remove a dragoon) it does leave the matter of what leader to get for your electropriests.
Technoarcheologist, having the extra OC is nice for objectives but at the same time the anti reinforcement bubble could end up doing more harm than good, depends entirely on how you use it.
Manipulus, with omni steriliser (if affordable) the flamer is really nice to have and again access to a 4++ for a phase can also come in clutch. Just a shame that lethal hits synergizes poorly with the staves.
Enginseer, is the cheapest option and can buff their transport to 4++ before moving out (afaik you don't have to deploy already embarked in a transport) and has upgradable melee should the transport (or a nearby dragoon) end up destroyed close by.
If my changes did end up being used I would personally use the following leaders:
Tech Priest Enginseer (Fulgarites) - Excoriating Emanation
also if your opponents allow their use you could have X-101 accompany the Enginseer but you would need to give up the steraliser on the Dominus.
Sorry is this was a long read and ended up not being helpful.
Dominus each go into the Breachers. 5+ FNP is better than situational 4++, imo. Plus, Sustained Hits 1 is a nice perk for one of the squads.
Infiltrators are there for Infiltrators shenanigans. They aren't there for fighting, they are there for the mission objectives. Same with Raiders, who have excellent mobility, and those also can act as a screen for the Breachers.
One thing I had thought might work was tossing a Dragoon or two (or maybe cutting the Infiltrators if they don't wind up working out) for a TPD to add to the Fulgurites to boost their FNP to 4+.
young_chemist wrote:From my point of view FNP is way more important than invul. And you must declare at the start of the phase which easily can be wasted that way. I still run manipulus with omni-ster but only because of thic relic.
Infiltrators and raiders I assume are here for missions. And with their's scout moves and infiltration they are good at it (I mean for our index of course). Ruststalkers are probably one of the worst unit in index because they do no damage.
Yep, exactly that. Gotta have some units that play the mission. A relatively slow gunline needs mobile units to go score.
been on the lookout for a new project for after christmas. I've liked the look of Ad Mech for a while now and think i could do a decent job of painting them in a somewhat timely manner
Just got ahold of the Omnisiah's Talon christmas box from 2021 at a decent price and wondering where to build from there.
been on the lookout for a new project for after christmas. I've liked the look of Ad Mech for a while now and think i could do a decent job of painting them in a somewhat timely manner
Just got ahold of the Omnisiah's Talon christmas box from 2021 at a decent price and wondering where to build from there.
With a book coming out likely in the next month I don't know if there is a wrong answer of what to get next, but Destroyers are a safe bet assuming that datasheets don't change.
dan2026 wrote: He's perfect to me. I love how the Ad Mech mix body horror with high tech/low tech.
They have all this technology but the best they can manage is a guy on stilts with goggles and a sniper rifle.
Not even a "the best they can manage" moment, but rather "they stick to a weird regional tradition that is now codified as dogma" by keeping with the stuff that Sydonians did to stay out of a toxic mist...
Anyways, I'm stoked for the Skitarii detachment. The Beep Boyz are going to be back in town for me!
Would people have good tips to relay on how to fight on no man land objectives and secondaries? Would be nice to have bit of a challenge as i'm winning by points eventhough i set up board lighter than usual.
Today vanquard nids just ran past middle objectives with lone op's keeping them(so no shooting outside 12" and if he moves within 12" but outside 6" can use stratagem to make it 6"). He was busy shooting front line nevermind 2nd line nor getting past my nids.
Based on tournament results admech can win but obviously we don't know how.
Are the kataphron's good? Opponent is quite heavy on those(plus 3 onager).
Breachers are the only thing holding up the entire index.
That and Sydonians by virtue of being cheap and durable.
Everything else? Sucks monkey balls. The codex barely has any damage and is unable to survive a war of attrition.
If you dont spam breachers, the index is a 40% faction im at best.
Manipulus usually gets the omni sterilizer with the transonic cannon. Overwatch, autohit, dev wounds on 2+ with D6+3 Attacks.
There are no "blobs", as there are 10 vanguards max - and those s***.
Manipuluses usually go, concurrently, with breachers to give them lethal hits with above deterrant should something sneak through.
Kanluwen wrote: It's hard to really discuss anything without context. Are our points changing? Squad sizes? Squad composition?
Squad sizes and composition likely won't change. The boxes are now mostly dictating that and we are pretty in alignment there.
As for the previews, I was disappointed. The detachment rule is roughly the same as a 70pt character for Space Marines, who also get Oath of Moment and a detachment rule too. So, as a detachment rule it just feels lackluster.
Here's hoping the remaining three are better, as I assume the Index one will go in unchanged, because GW clearly hasn't realized how bad that is (or don't care).
Skratos is essentially a cheap lone op. Don't rely on him to do much more than that - but i know several players that pay roughly the same points for a Neurolictor or similar which has no ranged ability so his viability is debatable.
I personally like the idea of using him in a crusade (100% calling him Inspector Gadget) and buffing the living hell out of him over time. You never know - in those games he might just become the sniper we all wanted him to be lol
So, now that the reviews are out, what are y'all thinking for detachment?
Weirdly, I am looking at the Rad-Zone Corps, which seems like it has the most flexibility for units that interest me. The detachment rule is... fine. I am sure it will get a few mortals over the course of the game.
Lethal Dosage, Aggressor Imperative, and Pre-Calibrated Purge Solution all look strong.
Radial Suffusion, Malphonic Sursurus, and Peerless Eradicator also look good.
The other detachments are so niche, I am not sure what to do with them. Though I guess Skitarii Hunter Cohort would be good for Skitarii heavy - including Dragoons and Ironstriders.
Data-Psalm would potentially benefit fat bricks of Breachers, bumping their AP by -1 at half range, which they want to be in anyway.
Curious what the price cuts will look like, if any. If Cawl came down a lot, he might be worthwhile.
Big sad the triple Phosphor Kastellans are still just so awful. I don't have the heart to rip mine apart. Thankfully they are terrible? lmao
em_en_oh_pee wrote: So, now that the reviews are out, what are y'all thinking for detachment?
If what I have read is true, the explorer maniple sounds interesting. Enhancement allows you to select a second objective to grant rerolls so being able to choose your home objective and then a midfield one sounds very good to me.
My brain doesnt really process things properly until i can give them a good read though so i need to have a full look when codexes drop.
Overall though, i'm quite excited for the release!
Points are up on the app, too, apparently. Very big disappointments here.
And this is the list I'm going to try to run, which I am sure isn't optimized, but I just can't justify spending more on this army. It's already just so ridiculously pricey and I am tapped out.
Spoiler:
(1990 points)
Adeptus Mechanicus
Strike Force (2000 points)
Explorator Maniple
Exported with App Version: v1.8.0 (32), Data Version: v317
I haven't built the two Ironstriders just yet, so I'm considering if having three pairs of Dragoons is the way to go since I have the Dunecrawlers for ranged antitank (unreliable and swingy as it is). The biggest travesty now is that I have to paint more Vanguard and I just hate that so much.
I can't bring myself to build more Skitarii including all the special weapons I never built as they didn't matter... my army is so out of touch with the things that are strong now that I think I just give up on AdMech at this point.
ph34r wrote: I can't bring myself to build more Skitarii including all the special weapons I never built as they didn't matter... my army is so out of touch with the things that are strong now that I think I just give up on AdMech at this point.
If I didn't already own the models I have had on sprue or partially built for ages, I probably would sell my army. I am all in the sunk cost now.
ph34r wrote: I can't bring myself to build more Skitarii including all the special weapons I never built as they didn't matter... my army is so out of touch with the things that are strong now that I think I just give up on AdMech at this point.
If I didn't already own the models I have had on sprue or partially built for ages, I probably would sell my army. I am all in the sunk cost now.
When last edition the way forward was horde of skitarii with no special weapons I built every skitarii body barely left over in any of my sprues into basic wargear skitarii. I already scraped the bottom of my bits barrel just to build units that are now objectively dumb to not give special weapons, I don't have the heart for another "grit my teeth and fix up the army" in me right now
My one and only gripe is that they still seem timid to acknowledge the fact that people didn't run arquebi on Vanguard but did like multiples in Rangers.
Would have loved to seen Alphas get the option to basically be a second special weapons model.
