Octovol wrote: Anyone care to share their non-mars paint-job for their skorpius? Just trying finalise how im going to paint them, looking for inspiration but every one i see painted is just a box of a single colour which im not keen on.
Quarter schemed purple/red for the body and again but opposite for the turret.
Octovol wrote: Anyone care to share their non-mars paint-job for their skorpius? Just trying finalise how im going to paint them, looking for inspiration but every one i see painted is just a box of a single colour which im not keen on.
It's still a lot of red for not being Mars, but here's my Stygies VIII scheme:
Yoda79 wrote: So the etc lists can be found now so I LL POSt mine.
I changed from my testing I had been doing from February mainly cause they faq changed the rules. And before you start about pure ad mech list to my own defence I really tried.
But a) new tank was not an option yet in etc lists . B) breachers screening reduce affe faq fly rule. C) it's an 8 man tour so there are some needs to be covered. D) specific tournament rules options etc.
Kastelan Robots [18 PL, 330pts] . Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
Octovol wrote: Anyone care to share their non-mars paint-job for their skorpius? Just trying finalise how im going to paint them, looking for inspiration but every one i see painted is just a box of a single colour which im not keen on.
Didn't do anything super fancy though I might add some chevrons to it or make the skirt white. I actually have it magnetized so I can take the hull off and run it as the transport but I haven't gotten around to painting the interior yet.
Speaking of rules that I have been playing wrong, my friend recently convinced me that Tau cannot Saviour mortal wounds from Wrath of Mars due to their FAQ limiting it to weapon wounds.
The key bit of evidence is Plasma Specialists. If the designers intended that Wrath of Mars modify the weapons of a unit in the vein of Radium Jezzail, Transuranic Arquebus, Volkite Blaster, and Chordclaw, they would have done so.
Octovol wrote: Anyone care to share their non-mars paint-job for their skorpius? Just trying finalise how im going to paint them, looking for inspiration but every one i see painted is just a box of a single colour which im not keen on.
I am curious about this as well. I only recently started an AdMech army based on the Skitarii that came with the Kill Team starter box, but I intent to grow it out to a full fledged 40k army with some Knight support. I choose the Xana II / Malinax colour scheme of bone white, so the beige interior that the default Mars colour scheme has would indeed make it a big box of the same colour.
But I also fully understand that the lighter interior colour for the Mars scheme is there to make the interior look bigger and show its detail, so I'm reluctant to have a contrasting darker colour for the interior. So very interested how other people with a lighter colour scheme have tackled this.
I'm not in any huge rush to paint them, I paint really slowly lol.
So far i've sprayed black, blocked out all the silver bits including the little hatches which to me seem like they should definitely be different to the body. I'm just in the process of rakarth fleshing all the bits that will eventually end up either white or orange; Thinking the skirt will be orange, the panels around the side sponson hatches and the hatches on the side turrets in orange as well. Then, maybe the disintigrator turret in white.
Really not sure on the interior for the transport though, black main body...maybe some sort of grey, it's mechanicus standard atm with silver details on the door and internal panel.
Saw a nice metallica painted one on the admech facebook page, really nicely done with some block stripes down the sides and the front.
My scheme is mainly black for main then white and orange anciliary colours with some 2K sons blue and nihilic oxide for conduits and recesses etc.
Yoda79 wrote: So the etc lists can be found now so I LL POSt mine.
I changed from my testing I had been doing from February mainly cause they faq changed the rules. And before you start about pure ad mech list to my own defence I really tried.
But a) new tank was not an option yet in etc lists . B) breachers screening reduce affe faq fly rule. C) it's an 8 man tour so there are some needs to be covered. D) specific tournament rules options etc.
Kastelan Robots [18 PL, 330pts] . Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
Canoness [3 PL, 49pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword, Relic: Braizer of Eternal Flame, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief
+ Heavy Support +
Exorcist [7 PL, 125pts]
Exorcist [7 PL, 125pts]
Exorcist [7 PL, 125pts]
++ Total: [130 PL, 12CP, 2005pts] ++
The concept was to swap breacheers for exprcists while gain mobility from fliers as well as keeping high durability besides same dakka.
(+5 points cause manipulus is 85 in E TC with flamer )
I like it. I suppose your weakness is heavy terrain?
TBH the list has mobility. While if I used the all breacher list I would have mobility issues. I consider this to be a v v moobiile gun line if you compare it vs pure ad mech prior new tank and tau or any other gun line. Main reason is I don't depend in one char or one unit all my unts can move produce and threat enemy so I was aiming for the most mobile gun line. As for terrain both liists this one or breacherr one has no issue vs terrain . If we consider the other way around my enemy to benefit from heavy terrain then playing a T3 army like ad mech or sisters defineetly can hide as he can so . Hiding vs an ad mech army prior new tank is even worse with out sisters are guard . Sisters are 12" mobile almost all units in my list with a 4+ invu so I'm considering this as a high mobility army.
And can be my base building my next list for Wtc with new tanks.
Hello, all. I'm kind of new to playing Ad-Mech (usually play orks, when I actually play) but I've decided to run them in a mini tourney my friends are doing this Autumn and could do with some advice.
I've already built and painted (in Mars colours and I plan to play WYSIWYG) most of my AM miniatures and don't really want to spend any more money on them, so my available forces are fairly limited:
Spoiler:
HQ Belesarius Cawl
2 * Tech=Priest Dominus
2 * Enginseer
Troops 3 Destroyers (Plasma / Blaster)
10 Rangers (Alpha with rifle, one arquebus, one omnispex)
10 Vanguard (Alpha with arc pistol and taser, two arc rifles, one tether)
Elite Datasmith
5 Ruststalkers (Claws)
5 Infiltrators (Swords)
Fast Attack Ballistarius with lascannons
Dragoon with lance
Dragoon with jezzail(
Heavy Support 2 Robots (fist / combustor)
Onager with neutron laser and 2 stubbers
I've also got ten unbuilt skitarri. I was thinking of making two small units of rangers to improve board control. Not sure how many of them to build with heavy weapons; possibly adding an arquebus to the two small units and maybe a couple of plasma calivers to the big one. Small unit alphas would probably have pistols and melee weapons for the visuals and a slight deterrent to assaulting units. Got absolutely loads of other imperial stuff I can use as allies if needed.
My main question however is how to actually play them?
Going to be facing Orks (mostly Evil Sunz, probably vehicle and bike heavy), Tau, Chaos Marines (I think Emperor's Children and Death Guard) and Daemons (Khorne). Some games may be played with a team-mate, who is likely to be playing marines (either old ultramarines, or primaris salamanders). Lists are 1,500 points max and you can have three lists, choosing one depending on the mission and opponent.
Against orks, I think I can come up with a reasonable strategy based on my experience of playing them; try to deny them mobility, use benediction of the omnissiah, wrath of Mars and protector doctrina imperative to maximise early-game shooting, shoot transports first, make sure that there is no convenient place in the middle of my forces to jump or tellyport a big mob into, target vulnerable but expensive stuff like tankbustas and burna boyz, be willing to surrender ground rather than get over-run.
Is expect chaos to be roughly similar to orks, although their longer-range heavy weapons and ability to summon daemons may be worth worrying about. I guess that shroudpsalm will be more useful against them, taking out characters may be an even bigger priority than normal and having some ability to counter-charge could actually be helpful. Being able to deny the witch seems somewhat useful against them (while against orks it seems unhelpful since the main threat is Da Jump which can be used from deep within their deployment zone) so some allied psykers (or a culexus assassin) could be good.
Against Tau, I get the impression that out-shooting them is unlikely, so I will need to go on the offensive. This means having at least one list with a decent amount of mobility and close combat capability, especially the mobility part. Since I only really have a handful of units which move fast, I was thinking of adding some allies to help with that. Main candidates would be deathwatch with a blackstar, or astra militarum with some friendly inquisiton in a valkyrie. Problem there is that the flyer would be an obvious weak-point to take out early. I have lots of chimeras, but no ogryns, so would have to rely on guardsmen, who could actually be bad enough at close combat to lose to tau. A psyker would seem like a good investment here too, since they won't be able to DtW against me.
Am I on the right track? Any details I should be aware of?
Have you ever tested the Techpriest Manipulus together with your deepstrike assault drill? In the first round it can use the 3" Range Aura. And if the opponent, in the second round, is closer to the 1" move Aura.
Drill Deepstrikte 6" next to him and only have to create an 8" charge. Just like the e-priests sitting inside.
The disadvantage is that the drill doesn't end up in the opponent's backline. But as counter assault against aggressive armies it worked quite well for me.
i would say i finally had my first admech game and it went swimmingly but i was facing 1K Sons....man our army butchers them...they just have no answer to mass vehicles.
Vineheart01 wrote: i would say i finally had my first admech game and it went swimmingly but i was facing 1K Sons....man our army butchers them...they just have no answer to mass vehicles.
Yeah. As long as you can soak up Smite spam, they've got nothing. Can you share your list?
My list isnt that solid, i made it before learning of several things but i wanted to fully paint it before i adjusted anything (trying to avoid having 4000pts of unpainted crap like my orks did for so long lol) I normally play orks, hence the mass of troops. I feel naked w/o a ball of troops lol
Yeah, i know, ruststalkers. They actually did exactly what i wanted them to do: they sat out of sight and bolted straight for some DS'd termies and mortal'd them to death with a giant middle finger to their invul saves.
Combined between Refusal to Yield and most of the mortals hitting my warglaives (which i just popped the 5+++ trait on) he just didnt do anything. Also doesnt help i sniped Ahriman before he even moved lol. Both striders and my 3 crawlers werent even damaged by the end, last glaive died in the final turn.
Only models i dont have is dragoons, infiltrators, and priests (both variants), but these are all painted. I have ruststalkers because i made them for Killteam before i got the normal codex and realized just how crazy infiltrators are by comparison in normal 40klol
Vineheart01 wrote: My list isnt that solid, i made it before learning of several things but i wanted to fully paint it before i adjusted anything (trying to avoid having 4000pts of unpainted crap like my orks did for so long lol)
I normally play orks, hence the mass of troops. I feel naked w/o a ball of troops lol
Yeah, i know, ruststalkers. They actually did exactly what i wanted them to do: they sat out of sight and bolted straight for some DS'd termies and mortal'd them to death with a giant middle finger to their invul saves.
Combined between Refusal to Yield and most of the mortals hitting my warglaives (which i just popped the 5+++ trait on) he just didnt do anything. Also doesnt help i sniped Ahriman before he even moved lol. Both striders and my 3 crawlers werent even damaged by the end, last glaive died in the final turn.
Only models i dont have is dragoons, infiltrators, and priests (both variants), but these are all painted. I have ruststalkers because i made them for Killteam before i got the normal codex and realized just how crazy infiltrators are by comparison in normal 40klol
did you play on a map with barely no terrain? How did you manage to snipe ahriman, wasnt he hidden behind somethings?
I'm in a similar boat as you, i love spamming infantry, especially cheap infantry like skitariis.
One tip: dont mix the special weapons in your skitarii squads and dont take melee/pistols on the alpha
My previous list is running out of CP much faster than I'd like. Turns out Elimination Volley, Wrath of Mars, Doctrina, and an Assassin on top of the one-off costs are beyond what 14 CP can sustain.
Was thinking this:
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 963 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 773 4x Kastelan Robot - 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Nobody plays admech around here, and despite me saying what my stuff did he "forgot" they had character sniping rules so nope he was in the open. Behind quite a bit of models, but not out of sight. Pretty much he saw i had no vindicares and went into "he has no snipers" mode lol.
Terrain wasnt sparse, i just had vantage points where unless he was hugging the center 5" tall landing pad thing we had i could see over and get'm anyway. My vehicles had to roam around alot to get shots.
Suzuteo wrote:My previous list is running out of CP much faster than I'd like. Turns out Elimination Volley, Wrath of Mars, Doctrina, and an Assassin on top of the one-off costs are beyond what 14 CP can sustain.
Was thinking this:
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 963 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 773 4x Kastelan Robot - 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Took out one Robot and added three more Destroyers to balance out the Elimination Volley. What to do with the last 53 points? More Skitarii?
Alternatively, I can run 3x Destroyers and 6x Breachers?
I personally havnt ran Kastellans in a while, they demand too much CP and pts to be as efficient as possible, im on the kataphron plan right now.
3x destroyers feels too little honestly, i'd add some skitarii or go for pure breachers probably.
Vineheart01 wrote:Nobody plays admech around here, and despite me saying what my stuff did he "forgot" they had character sniping rules so nope he was in the open. Behind quite a bit of models, but not out of sight. Pretty much he saw i had no vindicares and went into "he has no snipers" mode lol.
Terrain wasnt sparse, i just had vantage points where unless he was hugging the center 5" tall landing pad thing we had i could see over and get'm anyway. My vehicles had to roam around alot to get shots.
fair enough, at my LGS everyone is well aware of our snipers so i rarely get to shoot at important characters.
@VladimirHerzog
My plan was to use a ton of stratagems with Elimination Volley and just bomb them back to the... well, no place is worse than the 41st millenium.
I don't like the Kataphron plan personally. I think it has serious weaknesses to Tau and Eldar, and I expect to have to face them at some point.
Sorry for the list spam, but I need to decide by tonight for a tourney on Saturday. xD
5 Robots, 4 Destroyers, more Skitarii:
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 1073 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 883 5x Kastelan Robot - 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
yeah i saw those new armigers and kinda flipped. Theyre cheaper than the current 2 and imo better all around. Hate that theyre FW. I refuse to buy FW until they fix this stupid 20% price hyke in USA for "local depot" crap. FW is already immensely expensive, i dont need an additional 20% slapped on. Rather have the 3week shipping... (soooo glad i bought my GargSquig before that happened)
No comments on the FW knight adjustments then? I came here expecting an uproar lol.
Styrix and magaera no longer have their 4++ at range or their self repair. Volkite cheirovile, rad cleanser and hekaton siege claw were all changed, some for the better.
Tldr same points but volkite no longer triggers additional hits, it works the same as the dominus volkite. Rad cleanser now always wounds on a 2+ against non vehicles and non titanic. And hekaton siege claw now does extra 2 dmg to vehicles and titanics...which is amusing if you take headsmans mark as it now does 10dmg to other knights and vehicles )
Empyreal preysight now works on evrything not just non vehicles. It’s a mixed bag but i guess with rotate ion shields we still maintain a 4++, just means we need to use it at range as well now.
Styrix got more killy. I like the new gun profiles. Mortal wounds are better than additional hits generally.
Krast Titanic Feet and +1S from Canticles is still stronger than a Siege Claw against Knights.
Krast Reaper is still king against T7 enemies.
Magaera is still 380 points base? FW are such savage trolls.
I probably would still run a Krast Crusader in this current meta though. Losing the ability to easily attain 3++ and having less Knights to fight makes Styrix less appealing.
Yeah. Again, not surprised by the 2x Crawler, 3x Grator combo. They're just magic numbers for those units. More suprised by how there are only 3x instead of 4x Robots. Also, that servo-skull. I guess he really wanted that second Drill?
Anyhow, I guess everyone thinks the Elimination Volley is not that great? Going to follow the herd on this one. Stick more tanks in.
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 1187 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 997 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, here's a WIP of my paint scheme:
I got the stippled sky blue up top, with silver, brass, and steel bits. Below, I have a WW2 boat thing going. Going to wash tomorrow. Have three done in time for Saturday.
Styrix got more killy. I like the new gun profiles. Mortal wounds are better than additional hits generally.
Krast Titanic Feet and +1S from Canticles is still stronger than a Siege Claw against Knights.
Krast Reaper is still king against T7 enemies.
Magaera is still 380 points base? FW are such savage trolls.
I probably would still run a Krast Crusader in this current meta though. Losing the ability to easily attain 3++ and having less Knights to fight makes Styrix less appealing.
Also, RIP Prophyrion. That is HARSH.
Reaper still king if the claw is dealing flat 10 dmg?
I'm highly tempted with a pair of lightning lock Moiraxes to go with my styrix, trading the range of the helverins for more shots. The Moirazes are definitely better than Armigers by a long way, i mean their claw and rad cleanser is FREE!? you could go double claw with twin rad cleanser on a moirax for 145. a 2d6 3dmg poison flamer at 9" then pile in, not quite as effective as a knight but a helluva distraction with those flamers for a lot less points than a styrix or magaera.
I’m heading to a tourney in September and want to paint n practice my list through August. I’m planning a variation on the recently successful charge + shoot hybrid-ey lists. I am limited to one Forge World ao it can’t be fully optimized, but am trying to do the best list I can within that restriction. List below:
Idea is that Manipulus charges up the board with the dragoons, the fulgurites stuffed in a drill, and the corpuscarii stuffed in the new transport. So all 4 units get stygies moved before turn 1.
1. Any suggestions as to further optimizing it? Stuff that isn’t working and should be dumped, stuff that needs more investment to work, etc? I’m limited somewhat by budget (can’t afford any decent amount of balistarii, for instance) but will try to take suggestions on board.
2. Any gameplan advice? I haven’t run a hybrid list like this really, so would like some piloting advice is anyone has, so I can get the most out of the practice games I have. What do I do with the four melee chargers if the opponent goes first, for instance?
Pomguo wrote: I’m heading to a tourney in September and want to paint n practice my list through August. I’m planning a variation on the recently successful charge + shoot hybrid-ey lists. I am limited to one Forge World ao it can’t be fully optimized, but am trying to do the best list I can within that restriction. List below:
Idea is that Manipulus charges up the board with the dragoons, the fulgurites stuffed in a drill, and the corpuscarii stuffed in the new transport. So all 4 units get stygies moved before turn 1.
1. Any suggestions as to further optimizing it? Stuff that isn’t working and should be dumped, stuff that needs more investment to work, etc? I’m limited somewhat by budget (can’t afford any decent amount of balistarii, for instance) but will try to take suggestions on board.
2. Any gameplan advice? I haven’t run a hybrid list like this really, so would like some piloting advice is anyone has, so I can get the most out of the practice games I have. What do I do with the four melee chargers if the opponent goes first, for instance?
This is similar to lists I run, I find the mix of threats works well. I do prefer robots over dragoons though - 20 electro-priests in transports is generally plenty to take the heat off you shooting elements, and the robots never disappoint, even with just two or three.
I personally love punchbots but my concern is the quantity and accuracy of attacks. I’ve got lucky with them and wiped DPs etc but generally 6 attacks hitting on 4s means not enough will push through an invuln of any sort for my tastes. As opposed to the dragoons’ hail of taser attacks. I’d throw in a pair of punchbots if I had the space but I’m not sure what I’d remove here that wouldn’t take something necessary away...
Any advice for piloting if you go second? What do you do with the melee prongs, just try to hide out of LoS turn one as close to the enemy as you can?
So I took Metalica to that tournament last week but have been swamped with work and didn't get to post an update. Nothing groundbreaking here, just thought someone may find it useful. This tournament was at the Gamerz Den in Oxford Mississippi.
So yeah, not perfect but it was what I had available and I knew I was going to have an almost 100% chance to fight a knight. I ended up going almost pure gunline due to feeling like I lacked all the models needed to do melee effectively. I'll post my thoughts at the end.
Round one, ITC mission 3
Spoiler:
sure enough, I draw not only a knight, but an entire knight house. I was worried about killing a knight a turn and by Omnissiah I'm glad I did. Table had a massive LOs blocking terrain piece dead center, tall enough to block sight to even knights.
His house Raven list had a crusader, a Valiant with the 2+/4++ combo, a paladin with the ravager, and two hellverins. He got first turn, and with the help of shroudpsalm I didn't even lose a unit.
I proceeded to charge up the table and absolutely melt a helverin with the robot shots (no Mars, just that many flamethrower hits) and drop the crusader as well as crippling the second helverin. This turned out to be a stupid mistake, I should've been focusing on the Valiant. This would lose me the game.
I proceeded to have my dice go cold and spent a good 3 turns chewing through the valiant as it rampaged through my lines. I attempted to snag other objectives with characters and troops but it was too late. Some dumb sloppy play on my part lost me the game. I did manage to drop the valiant and even knock half the wounds off the Paladin, but by the end of round 6 I only had 2 characters alive. Loss 20-28. Firmly believe that if I had ignored hellverins and let the robots deal with them over time I would've had a chance at winning.
Round 2, ITC mission one
Spoiler:
Death guard player. Mortarion, blight drones, blight crawlers, blightlord terminators, the mortar tanks, and some zombies for gaks and giggles. Again lose first turn, almost as if I have a ton of drops or something. Mortarion and co charge up table and again fail to achieve a kill turn one. Robots proceed to Sprint up and heavily abuse mortarion with flamethrowers and phosphor but fail to kill him.
I then kill him after doing 5 wounds on overwatch and finishing him with a forced explosion on a bot, and proceed to he's through the crawlers, drones, and termis. Again, sloppy target priority on my part comes back to haunt me. I am doing really well and handily getting 3-4 points every round as well as maxing most secondaries, but I made a dumb choice with targeting and got greedy. It was at this moment my dice went cold and death guard player snatched a win at the last second with very clever play on his part.
Loss 22-26
Round 3, mission 6
Spoiler:
Through chance I end up playing my friend I drove up with. We had made a friendly bet last place bought dinner, so motivation to win was high. I couldn't lose a 3rd time. Friends list was an Ultramarines/IG soup based on what he had painted. G man, 3 predators with the tank captain, the Phobos captain, scouts, and then a pretty typical Cadian batallion with a leman Russ and 2 basilisk, as well as a vindicaire. A bit janky but he had a win and I didn't.
We drew a fairly wide open table and I got first turn. Things went downhill for my friend there. I proceeded to drop a predator and about 40 guardsmen turn one. He does some weak counterfire and manages to drop my Skorpius very quickly, but that's about it. We then proceeded to trade every turn in a shooting match with the gap getting wider in my favor every turn. I almost table him aside from a single surviving basilisk.
Finally a win 33-20
I go on to take 11/22 with 75 battlepoints. I didn't realize until later that I actually had more battlepoints than the next 4 places above me. If I just could've squeezed another win in who knows, maybe could've made top 6 or something. I ended up being the "best of the worst" 1/2's by a healthy margin.
I'm actually surprised how well the list ran, granted some of that was due to matchups and not having to fight the ultimate lists out there. Almost every unit but the Onagers pulled their weight. I mainly had them to cover all the knights out there, but even against the knight house they were underwhelming. They just are too unreliable. Its way too easy to roll one shot and miss or fail to wound. The lastriders were amazing. And I plan on getting 4 more striders when I can so I can run 4 Las and 4 Dragoons. Skorpius were great no surprise there. Robots were surprisingly effective considering two of the three lists they fought were terrible matchups for them. And destroyers are a given, I actually recycled at least 3 each game. Probably bad target priority by opponents but it worked.
Thanks for all the help, your tips helped a lot. I'm looking forward to another tournament sometime to see if I can do better. Had great opponents and store was nice too.
Yeah... Neutrons need like 2-3 for redundancy and even then they let themselves down too often for my tastes. I suspect the Ferrumite Cannon new tank will become the better more reliable high Strength shooty tank. But yeah, lastriders are great for that too.
Before I begin, I would like to say that this event was being held in memory of Geoff Robinson, who was a hometown hero that was, at one point, one of the top AdMech pilots (before Custodes stole him from us). I personally began playing AdMech in 7E because of some of his battle reports. We had a moment of silence for him before unveiling the Helm of the Custodes trophy. Some grown men cried. Very sobering.
My list:
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 1187 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 997 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
His Secondaries:
Gangbusters
Big Game Hunter
Butcher's Bill
My Secondaries:
Headhunter
Big Game Hunter
Old School
He deployed his Prisms and Spinners in the far back out of LOS and range. His Hemlocks and Venoms were aggressively positioned.
Hid my Grators, Crawlers, and Kastelans out of LOS. Wanted to force the Eldar to come forward. My Dragoons were on my extreme left. I picked Vindicare to snipe the numerous characters that he has brought.
Round 1
His Turn
I aggressively infiltrated my Dragoons toward his line to threaten his Spinners and Prisms. He redeploys his characters much further up than anticipated. Venoms and Harlequins moved into the center of the board. Eldar dumped everything into my Dragoons, killing them. Graia denied Twilight Pathways, preventing his Solitaire from getting in charge range of my Cawl. He finishes up by clearly enough screen to target and kill my Vindicare.
My Turn
My Crawlers, Grators, and Robots come out of hiding and open up. All but one Venom is dead. My Grators also are close enough to kill the stalled Solitaire hiding in the ruins in the center. My Enginseer moves in to claim it. On my right, my infantry Advance to claim the third objective.
4-2
Round 2
His Turn
He dives both of his Hemlocks into my deployment in an attempt to kill my Robots. Graia denied Jinx. Fire Prisms in almost kill a Crawler. Hemlocks and Spinners kill two Robots. While I am occupied, his tanks move on his right to grab his far objective. He kills the Rangers on the third objective an send an HQ to grab it for the bonus point.
My Turn
My Robots and Crawlers pour into the Hemlocks, killing both. My Grators finish off the last Venom and Shadowseer. I reclaim one objective, but he still has three of the five.
7-5
Round 3
His Turn
He repeats his prior feat, scoring the bonus point. Kills a Crawler, two units of Skitarii, and damages a Grator.
My Turn
I move my infantry toward the center and my Grators to my left. My focused fire kills two units of infantry to tie up the kills. I kill the enemy warlord as well. I tie up the objective count.
9-9
Round 4
His Turn
His tanks take out my Crawlers. He moved more tanks onto objectives and quickly ended his turn.
My Turn
This is where things get weird. We started using chess clocks because deployment took longer than expected. I had fallen under 5 minutes (my opponent had 6), and he insisted that I had to skip this turn and the next. I brought a TO over, and he pointed out that BOTH players put dice down when BOTH are under 5 minutes. I was to play my time.
However, I was really flustered and totally forgot my plans. I don't remember what happened, but I really messed up my shooting priority really badly, resulting in me being unable to kill a key unit. Did not get kill more or a third BGH like I should have. My opponent remarked that this was the only mistake that I made this game. (He thought up until this point that I was going to win by 1-2 points because my play was so strong up until this point.)
12-13
Deployment Map: Vanguard
His Secondaries
Gangbusters 4/4
Big Game Hunter 2/4
Butcher's Bill 4/4
My Secondaries
Headhunter 4/4
Big Game Hunter 2/4
Old School 3/4
21-23 LOSS
This game showed just how effective a combination Robots, Grators, and Crawlers are together. They are all incredibly efficient and give AdMech a lot of shooting flexibility.
Honestly, I was very pissed by the outcome of this game, but now it's sort of just a disappointment.
Game 2 - Guard
Spoiler:
Deployment Map: Vanguard
His Secondaries
Gangbusters
Big Game Hunter
Engineers
My Secondaries
Reaper
Butcher's Bill
Engineers
I chose to go deploy and go second. He deployed his tanks in the rear and his transports and Knight along the line. He takes Callidus.
I placed my Dragoons on my extreme left again and hid all of my units behind the largest LOS blocking terrain that I could find. I focused on protecting the Grators and Robots because they were going to decide the battle. Seeing the orientation of the Vulture, I knew he intended to bring it to my right, so I had my Crawlers waiting there. (A lot of people inadvertently point their models in the direction that they intend to move. When important, I mix it up to throw people off.) I take Eversor.
Round 1
His Turn
I push my Dragoons up, taking care to keep 12" outside his Vanquisher's Grinding Advance range. He uses the stratagem to move up and shoot anyway. He deals 5 mortal wounds to himself and only 4 to a Dragoon. Lol. He moves up one Taurox to tarpit my Dragoons. I spend 2 CP to Doctrina and kill it, consolidating toward his Vanquisher, which is now 9" away.
In the center, he moves a bunch of infantry and transports toward the center objective. His tanks shoot an Crawler, damaging it. Mortars thin one of my Skitarii units.
His Vulture flanks me on my right as expected. He guns down a squad of Skitarii and further damages my Crawler.
My Turn
I move my Dragoons to just outside 1" of the Vanquisher and multicharge it and the second Taurox. I combat slide further left, kill the Vanquisher, and leave the Taurox with one wound.
Crawlers destroy the Vulture; one got a 6 damage missile through. Grators kill all but one of his Mortars. They also damage a Chimera with missiles and gun down 2 squads of Guardsmen too. It was brutal.
At this point, I realized that my Robots were not important for winning this game, so I decided to Queen Sacrifice them. Run straight into the open and root them. The presence of the transports made things complicated. I cannot shoot them or they'd disembark troops and capture the center objective. So I shoot the Knight and bring it down to its second profile.
I send one squad to capture the center objective, since I outnumber the transport there.
4-2
Round 2
His Turn
He disembarks his troops and pours them into the center. He charges my Skitarii. He also Deep Strikes his Callidus to attempt to assassinate my Enginseers. I heroically intervene. He doesn't kill a single Skitarii, and with Mask, my Skitarii I end up killing two of his Guardsman. My Enginseer lands a Servo-Arm and brings his Callidus down to 1.
He shoots most of his vehicles into my Robots. He then moves his Chimera and Knight up to my Robots and locks them in combat; he kills two in fighting. Lesser AdMech players may panic, but the way I saw it, I just used 440 points that won't win me the game to lock up a thousand points of shooting. I pull the front two and he consolidates his Knight further into them.
My Turn
My tanks begin to move left, as the Knight is now trapped in CC between his Chimera and my Robots. Crawlers turn their guns on the center infantry and kill one squad and what remains of a second. Grators pound the Engineer infantry in the far left building, killing one squad.
Another unit of Skitarii comes out of cover go into the center and takes the objective. Enginseers finish off the Callidus and my Manipulus the Guardsmen in CC with my Skitarii.
Dragoons continue their rampage on the left and take HIS objective. Eversor deep strikes and fails his charge. Fortunately, I outnumbered the surviving Mortar team three to one with Dragoons.
8-4
Round 3
His Turn
He falls back with his Knight and shoots to kill my Skitarii in the center with help from disembarked Guardsmen. His Chimera falls back to try to block my Skitarii. His Knight then charges back in to kill the remaining Robot.
On my left, his Tank Commander kills one of my Dragoons.
My Turn
Tanks continue to flank left. I blow up the last Chimera. I gun down all of the remaining Guardsmen in the center. My Dragoons and Eversor kill the Mortar. I grab all three objectives
13-5
Round 4
His Turn
His Knight finally catches up with the tanks. He kills a Crawler.
My Turn
I just kill a Company Commander and capture all three objectives.
17-6
His Secondaries
Gangbusters 4/4
Big Game Hunter 2/4
Engineers 1/4
My Secondaries
Reaper 4/4
Butcher's Bill 4/4
Engineers 3/4
28-13 WIN
Game 3 - Quad Knights
Spoiler:
Deployment Map: Spearhead
His Secondaries
Gangbusters
Big Game Hunter
Headhunter
My Secondaries
Old School
Titan Slayer
King Slayer
Deployment
He dropped a the Taranis Gallant and Krast Crusader on my left. He dropped both Taranis Crusaders on my right.
I deploy everything clustered behind the big ruin in the center, intending to launch sacrificial grabs. I expect to go second, but who knows?
Anyhow, I actually made a huge mistake here. I deployed all of my Stygies infantry first to exhaust his drops and get free deploy. BUT I FORGOT TO INFILTRATE ONE. This becomes a huge problem in Round 1.
I take Vindicare and place him in the high tower in the center.
Round 1
His Turn
He spreads his shots everywhere, dealing a bit of damage. Kills one unit of Skitarii. Nothing to write about.
His Gallant advances to within 8" of my hastily reassembled line. This is where my infiltrating Rangers would have been useful. 1 CP and 35 points to deny a first turn move to a Gallant? Yes please. Anyhow he fails, rolling 2 and 1. His reroll gets him a 6 though. And he plows into my Dragoons. This is okay, I thought. He'll kill 2-3 of them. Nope. He kills all 5 then piles into my Skitarii.
My Turn
I root and fire 4 Robots of dakka into the Gallant. By some unholy magicks, I end up only dealing 8 wounds to him. At this point, I panic. I pour absolutely everything into the Gallant. Every Belleros Energy Cannon, Solar Atomizer, Icarus Array, Heavy Stubber, Galvanic Rifle, and Laspistol. Even Turbo Penetrator Round. He is down to 1 wound. I am desperate. I charge EVERYTHING into him. And against all odds, one of my Enginseers manages to axe him in his Achilles Heel and kill him. I quickly consolidate into the space left behind by the Gallant. He tries to get back up... and succeeds with 3 wounds. Ughhh. At least my Robots are outside of charge danger now.
TO rules that the kill does not count for Old School or a kill in general if your Taranis stratagem is successful. Sigh.
I sacrifice some Skitarii to hold more.
2-3
Round 2
His Turn
More spread fire as his Knights set up around the center objectives. One Crawler goes down. His Gallant bulldozes a unit of Skitarii.
My Turn
I weaken the Gallant with a Grator then kill it for 1 CP using my Vindicare's Turbo Penetrator Round.
My Robots dump fire into the Krast. This one is more fortuitous, bringing it down to its bottom wound table. I pour everything else into it, killing it.
I sacrifice some Skitarii to attempt to hold more. He heroically intervenes into my gamble and I end up only denying it.
4-6
Round 3
His Turn
His Crusaders charge into my right flank screen and stomp some Skitarii. He finishes a Grato, brings another to its bottom wound table, and kills two Robots.
My Turn
I begin to shift my line to the left. I kill one of his Skitarii units and split my two surviving Robots to damage his warlord and other Knight a bit more.
6-9
Round 4
His Turn
His Crusaders kill a Robot, as well as my last Grator and Crawler.
My Turn
I complete my shift left. I also prepare my last two units of Skitarii for the last round. I manage to kill more because I pasted two of his Skitarii units.
9-12
Round 5
His Turn
He kills Cawl and a unit of Skitarii. He manages to hide his last Enginseer from my Vindicare.
My Turn
I just hold more.
11-15
His Secondaries
Gangbusters 4/4
Big Game Hunter 4/4
Headhunter 4/4
My Secondaries
Old School 0/4
Titan Slayer 4/4
King Slayer 3/4
18-27 LOSS
Although this was a tough matchup, in my opinion, I played poorly overall this game. I picked Old School mostly because I did not know what else to pick, which was dumb; should have done Ground Control or Engineers instead. My deployment was also very sloppy. I failed to tarpit the Gallant and paid for it with my Dragoons. This list lacks S8+ weapons, so this was a huge loss. The fact that my opponent rolled hot his first round did not help matters. I fell behind and stayed behind.
Take-aways:
-Grators are ridiculously good. They are cheap, fast, tough, and pack a punch. They fill a vital non-LOS gap between Robots and Las Striders.
-Grators are a good screen, but in many matchups, keeping them safe is rather important. Dragoons end up taking up the slack, and they're also quite sacrificial.
-Crawlers are situationally good. Honestly, against non-flying, they don't actually do too much. They also hurt in the play clock.
-Robots are a known quantity. I think 4x is fine for most instances. 3x if you just need an anti-infantry unit.
-I really wish I had Las Striders in this list. AdMech has not trouble hitting, but wounding is a problem. The lack of S8+ shooting really makes you feel powerless against Knights.
-I found myself regretting having a Graia Enginseer. Having that extra heal 1 wound is nice, actually.
-Stygies infiltration is pretty damn important. I might want to consider running extra Skitarii just to make better use of it.
-Assassins are a mixed bag. They are silver bullets against some lists, but they are overpriced against others.
-Hard to decide if Cawl with reroll all and Shroudpsalm is better than Stygies reroll 1s and minus to hit. Especially since you can choose from the four good Canticles each round.
Loved your report Suzuteo and we are all sad for the news of Matt. Really sad. He was coming to Etc and i was really hoping to meet him as you said was an inspiration for me as well back in 7th.
As for your list i like it but i have began to consider more mobile options for my new lists.
As you said i see the new tanks are really good ( though i have none) but i was sure you missed the point of good firepower. I was wondering how would your list perform vs knights if you faced them or vehicles in general. And a strong issue is that your vehicles dont got that -1 stygies on them.
I have now decided to switch of Cawl and manage to play stygies and mixed with smaller more versatile units since the big issue remains for ad mech. YOu need a lot of cp to operate any list properly and effectively. While bs 3+ rr1 is not so bad while not having cp to feed Robots draghoons assasins etc reduce their effectivenss dramatially. so i ll be looking to utilise Plans with more smart ways to use cp.
thats my idea and i will build on it more in September.
@Ideasweasel
Yes. I also am thinking a Drill, possibly with Fulgurites.
@Yoda79
Yeah, I faced the most extreme sort of Knight list this time around. The sort I used to bring 4 Las Striders and a Krast Crusader for. Except last time, I did not face any Knights.
This time, I came ready for Tau and Eldar aircraft. Faced an Eldar and it was close. But no Tau.
Before I begin, I would like to say that this event was being held in memory of Geoff Robinson, who was a hometown hero that was, at one point, one of the top AdMech pilots (before Custodes stole him from us). I personally began playing AdMech in 7E because of some of his battle reports. We had a moment of silence for him before unveiling the Helm of the Custodes trophy. Some grown men cried. Very sobering.
My list:
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 1187 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 997 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
His Secondaries:
Gangbusters
Big Game Hunter
Butcher's Bill
My Secondaries:
Headhunter
Big Game Hunter
Old School
He deployed his Prisms and Spinners in the far back out of LOS and range. His Hemlocks and Venoms were aggressively positioned.
Hid my Grators, Crawlers, and Kastelans out of LOS. Wanted to force the Eldar to come forward. My Dragoons were on my extreme left. I picked Vindicare to snipe the numerous characters that he has brought.
Round 1
His Turn
I aggressively infiltrated my Dragoons toward his line to threaten his Spinners and Prisms. He redeploys his characters much further up than anticipated. Venoms and Harlequins moved into the center of the board. Eldar dumped everything into my Dragoons, killing them. Graia denied Twilight Pathways, preventing his Solitaire from getting in charge range of my Cawl. He finishes up by clearly enough screen to target and kill my Vindicare.
My Turn
My Crawlers, Grators, and Robots come out of hiding and open up. All but one Venom is dead. My Grators also are close enough to kill the stalled Solitaire hiding in the ruins in the center. My Enginseer moves in to claim it. On my right, my infantry Advance to claim the third objective.
4-2
Round 2
His Turn
He dives both of his Hemlocks into my deployment in an attempt to kill my Robots. Graia denied Jinx. Fire Prisms in almost kill a Crawler. Hemlocks and Spinners kill two Robots. While I am occupied, his tanks move on his right to grab his far objective. He kills the Rangers on the third objective an send an HQ to grab it for the bonus point.
My Turn
My Robots and Crawlers pour into the Hemlocks, killing both. My Grators finish off the last Venom and Shadowseer. I reclaim one objective, but he still has three of the five.
7-5
Round 3
His Turn
He repeats his prior feat, scoring the bonus point. Kills a Crawler, two units of Skitarii, and damages a Grator.
My Turn
I move my infantry toward the center and my Grators to my left. My focused fire kills two units of infantry to tie up the kills. I kill the enemy warlord as well. I tie up the objective count.
9-9
Round 4
His Turn
His tanks take out my Crawlers. He moved more tanks onto objectives and quickly ended his turn.
My Turn
This is where things get weird. We started using chess clocks because deployment took longer than expected. I had fallen under 5 minutes (my opponent had 6), and he insisted that I had to skip this turn and the next. I brought a TO over, and he pointed out that BOTH players put dice down when BOTH are under 5 minutes. I was to play my time.
However, I was really flustered and totally forgot my plans. I don't remember what happened, but I really messed up my shooting priority really badly, resulting in me being unable to kill a key unit. Did not get kill more or a third BGH like I should have. My opponent remarked that this was the only mistake that I made this game. (He thought up until this point that I was going to win by 1-2 points because my play was so strong up until this point.)
12-13
Deployment Map: Vanguard
His Secondaries
Gangbusters 4/4
Big Game Hunter 2/4
Butcher's Bill 4/4
My Secondaries
Headhunter 4/4
Big Game Hunter 2/4
Old School 3/4
21-23 LOSS
This game showed just how effective a combination Robots, Grators, and Crawlers are together. They are all incredibly efficient and give AdMech a lot of shooting flexibility.
Honestly, I was very pissed by the outcome of this game, but now it's sort of just a disappointment.
Game 2 - Guard
Spoiler:
Deployment Map: Vanguard
His Secondaries
Gangbusters
Big Game Hunter
Engineers
My Secondaries
Reaper
Butcher's Bill
Engineers
I chose to go deploy and go second. He deployed his tanks in the rear and his transports and Knight along the line. He takes Callidus.
I placed my Dragoons on my extreme left again and hid all of my units behind the largest LOS blocking terrain that I could find. I focused on protecting the Grators and Robots because they were going to decide the battle. Seeing the orientation of the Vulture, I knew he intended to bring it to my right, so I had my Crawlers waiting there. (A lot of people inadvertently point their models in the direction that they intend to move. When important, I mix it up to throw people off.) I take Eversor.
Round 1
His Turn
I push my Dragoons up, taking care to keep 12" outside his Vanquisher's Grinding Advance range. He uses the stratagem to move up and shoot anyway. He deals 5 mortal wounds to himself and only 4 to a Dragoon. Lol. He moves up one Taurox to tarpit my Dragoons. I spend 2 CP to Doctrina and kill it, consolidating toward his Vanquisher, which is now 9" away.
In the center, he moves a bunch of infantry and transports toward the center objective. His tanks shoot an Crawler, damaging it. Mortars thin one of my Skitarii units.
His Vulture flanks me on my right as expected. He guns down a squad of Skitarii and further damages my Crawler.
My Turn
I move my Dragoons to just outside 1" of the Vanquisher and multicharge it and the second Taurox. I combat slide further left, kill the Vanquisher, and leave the Taurox with one wound.
Crawlers destroy the Vulture; one got a 6 damage missile through. Grators kill all but one of his Mortars. They also damage a Chimera with missiles and gun down 2 squads of Guardsmen too. It was brutal.
At this point, I realized that my Robots were not important for winning this game, so I decided to Queen Sacrifice them. Run straight into the open and root them. The presence of the transports made things complicated. I cannot shoot them or they'd disembark troops and capture the center objective. So I shoot the Knight and bring it down to its second profile.
I send one squad to capture the center objective, since I outnumber the transport there.
4-2
Round 2
His Turn
He disembarks his troops and pours them into the center. He charges my Skitarii. He also Deep Strikes his Callidus to attempt to assassinate my Enginseers. I heroically intervene. He doesn't kill a single Skitarii, and with Mask, my Skitarii I end up killing two of his Guardsman. My Enginseer lands a Servo-Arm and brings his Callidus down to 1.
He shoots most of his vehicles into my Robots. He then moves his Chimera and Knight up to my Robots and locks them in combat; he kills two in fighting. Lesser AdMech players may panic, but the way I saw it, I just used 440 points that won't win me the game to lock up a thousand points of shooting. I pull the front two and he consolidates his Knight further into them.
My Turn
My tanks begin to move left, as the Knight is now trapped in CC between his Chimera and my Robots. Crawlers turn their guns on the center infantry and kill one squad and what remains of a second. Grators pound the Engineer infantry in the far left building, killing one squad.
Another unit of Skitarii comes out of cover go into the center and takes the objective. Enginseers finish off the Callidus and my Manipulus the Guardsmen in CC with my Skitarii.
Dragoons continue their rampage on the left and take HIS objective. Eversor deep strikes and fails his charge. Fortunately, I outnumbered the surviving Mortar team three to one with Dragoons.
8-4
Round 3
His Turn
He falls back with his Knight and shoots to kill my Skitarii in the center with help from disembarked Guardsmen. His Chimera falls back to try to block my Skitarii. His Knight then charges back in to kill the remaining Robot.
On my left, his Tank Commander kills one of my Dragoons.
My Turn
Tanks continue to flank left. I blow up the last Chimera. I gun down all of the remaining Guardsmen in the center. My Dragoons and Eversor kill the Mortar. I grab all three objectives
13-5
Round 4
His Turn
His Knight finally catches up with the tanks. He kills a Crawler.
My Turn
I just kill a Company Commander and capture all three objectives.
17-6
His Secondaries
Gangbusters 4/4
Big Game Hunter 2/4
Engineers 1/4
My Secondaries
Reaper 4/4
Butcher's Bill 4/4
Engineers 3/4
28-13 WIN
Game 3 - Quad Knights
Spoiler:
Deployment Map: Spearhead
His Secondaries
Gangbusters
Big Game Hunter
Headhunter
My Secondaries
Old School
Titan Slayer
King Slayer
Deployment
He dropped a the Taranis Gallant and Krast Crusader on my left. He dropped both Taranis Crusaders on my right.
I deploy everything clustered behind the big ruin in the center, intending to launch sacrificial grabs. I expect to go second, but who knows?
Anyhow, I actually made a huge mistake here. I deployed all of my Stygies infantry first to exhaust his drops and get free deploy. BUT I FORGOT TO INFILTRATE ONE. This becomes a huge problem in Round 1.
I take Vindicare and place him in the high tower in the center.
Round 1
His Turn
He spreads his shots everywhere, dealing a bit of damage. Kills one unit of Skitarii. Nothing to write about.
His Gallant advances to within 8" of my hastily reassembled line. This is where my infiltrating Rangers would have been useful. 1 CP and 35 points to deny a first turn move to a Gallant? Yes please. Anyhow he fails, rolling 2 and 1. His reroll gets him a 6 though. And he plows into my Dragoons. This is okay, I thought. He'll kill 2-3 of them. Nope. He kills all 5 then piles into my Skitarii.
My Turn
I root and fire 4 Robots of dakka into the Gallant. By some unholy magicks, I end up only dealing 8 wounds to him. At this point, I panic. I pour absolutely everything into the Gallant. Every Belleros Energy Cannon, Solar Atomizer, Icarus Array, Heavy Stubber, Galvanic Rifle, and Laspistol. Even Turbo Penetrator Round. He is down to 1 wound. I am desperate. I charge EVERYTHING into him. And against all odds, one of my Enginseers manages to axe him in his Achilles Heel and kill him. I quickly consolidate into the space left behind by the Gallant. He tries to get back up... and succeeds with 3 wounds. Ughhh. At least my Robots are outside of charge danger now.
TO rules that the kill does not count for Old School or a kill in general if your Taranis stratagem is successful. Sigh.
I sacrifice some Skitarii to hold more.
2-3
Round 2
His Turn
More spread fire as his Knights set up around the center objectives. One Crawler goes down. His Gallant bulldozes a unit of Skitarii.
My Turn
I weaken the Gallant with a Grator then kill it for 1 CP using my Vindicare's Turbo Penetrator Round.
My Robots dump fire into the Krast. This one is more fortuitous, bringing it down to its bottom wound table. I pour everything else into it, killing it.
I sacrifice some Skitarii to attempt to hold more. He heroically intervenes into my gamble and I end up only denying it.
4-6
Round 3
His Turn
His Crusaders charge into my right flank screen and stomp some Skitarii. He finishes a Grato, brings another to its bottom wound table, and kills two Robots.
My Turn
I begin to shift my line to the left. I kill one of his Skitarii units and split my two surviving Robots to damage his warlord and other Knight a bit more.
6-9
Round 4
His Turn
His Crusaders kill a Robot, as well as my last Grator and Crawler.
My Turn
I complete my shift left. I also prepare my last two units of Skitarii for the last round. I manage to kill more because I pasted two of his Skitarii units.
9-12
Round 5
His Turn
He kills Cawl and a unit of Skitarii. He manages to hide his last Enginseer from my Vindicare.
My Turn
I just hold more.
11-15
His Secondaries
Gangbusters 4/4
Big Game Hunter 4/4
Headhunter 4/4
My Secondaries
Old School 0/4
Titan Slayer 4/4
King Slayer 3/4
18-27 LOSS
Although this was a tough matchup, in my opinion, I played poorly overall this game. I picked Old School mostly because I did not know what else to pick, which was dumb; should have done Ground Control or Engineers instead. My deployment was also very sloppy. I failed to tarpit the Gallant and paid for it with my Dragoons. This list lacks S8+ weapons, so this was a huge loss. The fact that my opponent rolled hot his first round did not help matters. I fell behind and stayed behind.
Take-aways:
-Grators are ridiculously good. They are cheap, fast, tough, and pack a punch. They fill a vital non-LOS gap between Robots and Las Striders.
-Grators are a good screen, but in many matchups, keeping them safe is rather important. Dragoons end up taking up the slack, and they're also quite sacrificial.
-Crawlers are situationally good. Honestly, against non-flying, they don't actually do too much. They also hurt in the play clock.
-Robots are a known quantity. I think 4x is fine for most instances. 3x if you just need an anti-infantry unit.
-I really wish I had Las Striders in this list. AdMech has not trouble hitting, but wounding is a problem. The lack of S8+ shooting really makes you feel powerless against Knights.
-I found myself regretting having a Graia Enginseer. Having that extra heal 1 wound is nice, actually.
-Stygies infiltration is pretty damn important. I might want to consider running extra Skitarii just to make better use of it.
-Assassins are a mixed bag. They are silver bullets against some lists, but they are overpriced against others.
-Hard to decide if Cawl with reroll all and Shroudpsalm is better than Stygies reroll 1s and minus to hit. Especially since you can choose from the four good Canticles each round.
I'd say that, with the penalties to hit being readily available, having Cawl is probably smarter.
I finally got a couple of games in with some Hoplites in a Dunerider. They're very good for screening as well as clearing+holding objectives.
Hoplites are very good at thinning out enemy melee, even on defense; I had the remains of a unit get charged by a mobbed up squad of 40 boyz dish-out 10 MW's just from the Mag-shields. This could have been prevented by rolling each attack one at a time until my Hoplites died, but no ork player has time for that.
I had low expectations for the Duneriders' damage output and was pleasantly surprised as they clear a decent amount of infantry, letting me thin out objective holders that thought they were safe; using the Cognis Overwatch strat came in useful against Orks. Also great for movement and LOS blocking.
All in all, 2 units of Hoplites in Duneriders give me the midfield control I was looking for.
@Suzuteo: if you take out Cawl, what's your plan for dealing with Plaguebearers?
OK so this is a report from a local tourney in Ireland I went to, local meta of course and while there was some ETC list from guys that do play in big tournaments but mostly it was a relaxed affair. I'm mainly reporting this as I wanted to acknowlege how some of the tips from this thread has really helped my game. I won 1 out of 5 and ran the following so while not excatly great or even good as a casual player needing practise I though I would share, My admech mono faction,list was as follows:
Brief game summary of the 2 days:
First game was, frontline assualt deployment, againt 3 knights and the rust 17, one of the knights was a valient, I killed one iknight in turn two, he got back up and then died it turn 3, the valient died turn 4 after just taking stuff and blew up doing damage as it was in my army but his rusty 17 held his objectives and helped the loss
Second game, hammer and avil deployment, I won that against a tau list with 3 Riptides and two devilfish(? they just had the gun drones and missles) My weight of fire just stripped away the drones and then killed twoof the rip tides and I scored well
Thrid game,dawn of war deployment, against guard with mortars and Basilisks, now I know what you are talking about with indirect shooting, we only managed two turns and both our unfimilarity with ETC missions kinda messed up scroing, I took the loss but to be fair we were both at fault and we have a lot of units
Forth game ,search and destroy deployment, against 4 knights plus cultist, I killed two in three turns and then struggles to kill the last two, his warlord knight was on 1 wound and another on 4 at the end of the game plus my objective cards don't like me so that was a loss
Fifth,spearhead assualt, was againt Eldar and halequins, I went first and by turn two- had destryoed his transports and done a lot of damage, he got 5 bikes with in a 6" charge and got a 4 and I then erased them unfortunatly I got 2 cards that where roll for objective number and both where in his deployment so it ended 18-16 to him, I think just some better cards and that would have been a second win.
Lessons leared is that as Suzuteo has said repeatly, LasBallistarii are beasts, with Cawl nearby and the +2 strat they are accurate beyond belief and had I rolled a bit better they can wipe out nearly anything they shoot at, need to try to get more bought and built. Dragoons didn't see as much combat as normal but an entire tau list had to use a turn to kill a unit of four so they are still worth the points.
Grav Destroyers actually became a bit of rising star in that coupled with the vigilus +1 strat and cawl they almost deleted a knight in one vollety with wrath of mars, the breachers also did a lot of damage as ther become d6 to vehicles so thier surprise lascannons kinda
for the Graia detachement I only really used the strat twice out of the whole tourney and the fnp never really worked.
I need a deepstrike, I think I'll cut the Griaia detacment and add an 7 man squad of felcette infiltrators, while that does eat into my cp I'm more likely to save wom for them than the grav destroyers, taking on Yoda79 and Suzuteos advice I tried to keep things focused, there was threats in my force but not just the one, there was the dragoons, the destroyers and they were boostable when needed, losing graia would hurt a little in CP but I think the deepstrike would help with board precence and I can add either and extra lasballistarii(need to buy it first) or dragoon for distraction/combat purposes. The breachers and the destroyers combined with the specialist detachment are really tough to kill and I don;t think anyone managed to kill all the squads on any game also Breachers can fight well in melee (dice rolls of course not withstanding).
Hope you liked my ramble and cheers for the advise, I'm not super competitive but I do read the thread to at least try to go for a decent build.
@Agamembar: Good write-up. Just so you know, your list breaks 'rule of 3' with the Enginseers. I wouldn't cut the Graia detachment yet, your first two games happened to be against armies that don't have psykers. Wait until you play against more eldar or run up against tsons before cutting them.
the_Grak wrote: @Agamembar: Good write-up. Just so you know, your list breaks 'rule of 3' with the Enginseers. I wouldn't cut the Graia detachment yet, your first two games happened to be against armies that don't have psykers. Wait until you play against more eldar or run up against tsons before cutting them.
It does? crap, your right thats only battleline/troops isn't, hmm I need to free up some points for a domius then I gueess to only have 3 enginseers in the list, I didn't event think of that as thier infantry so I though that was ok but thier not troops. thanks for the advice, I guess I can cut one destroyer to free up the dominus points, now I just need to decide which detachment either stygies or graia to put him in. dammit I didn't even release, thats what I get for following battlescribe blindly. Well lucky I was 35 of of 39 with 4 drop outs haha Yeah looking back one destroyer less and a dominus in the stygies detachment would have ended the same way really, the enginseers never really did much other than deny deepstrike (which was not a concern in most games anyay) or give kill points to the enemy... very annoyed that I did that but the To or list checkers didn't pull me up on it either not that that is an excuse.
If you free up points I’d think they should go for a Manipulus - or am I missing the point of a Dominus and Cawl with Static Psalm Code in one detachment? To me that seems like the Dominus adds very little for his points that cawl can’t already give to most of an army. Manipulus on the other hand lets you out-range several of the more deadly gunline rivals you might face.
Hate to pester, but does anyone have advice for steering my list (quoted in the first post on this page)? I’ve not run this kind of mixed threat list and am wanting to get the most of my few pre-tourney practice games, so any basic gameplan or piloting pointers wpuld be welcome!
Troops and Dedicated Transports (which is the dunerider) are able to bypass that rule but everything else is limited to 3.
Thats why a lot of units can be taken in squads of 3, but they become their own thing once deployed. That was the first odd thing i noticed about admech when i started collecting, all 3 our vehicle squads DONT split up on deployment.
Pomguo wrote: If you free up points I’d think they should go for a Manipulus - or am I missing the point of a Dominus and Cawl with Static Psalm Code in one detachment? To me that seems like the Dominus adds very little for his points that cawl can’t already give to most of an army. Manipulus on the other hand lets you out-range several of the more deadly gunline rivals you might face.
Hate to pester, but does anyone have advice for steering my list (quoted in the first post on this page)? I’ve not run this kind of mixed threat list and am wanting to get the most of my few pre-tourney practice games, so any basic gameplan or piloting pointers wpuld be welcome!
Yeah thats the thing if the maniplus can stand infor the diomius then hes just the better choice for that weapon boost but they goat realy speciofic for that vigilus detahcment... also I need to buy one haha or convert one up/
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pomguo wrote: If you free up points I’d think they should go for a Manipulus - or am I missing the point of a Dominus and Cawl with Static Psalm Code in one detachment? To me that seems like the Dominus adds very little for his points that cawl can’t already give to most of an army. Manipulus on the other hand lets you out-range several of the more deadly gunline rivals you might face.
Hate to pester, but does anyone have advice for steering my list (quoted in the first post on this page)? I’ve not run this kind of mixed threat list and am wanting to get the most of my few pre-tourney practice games, so any basic gameplan or piloting pointers wpuld be welcome!
Hi Pomguo, casual advice incoming but your were asking and I felt I stole your riepiles, anyway:
Your running plasma as stugies, the do better in mars as they can re-roll those ovbercharge 1's but wit ryza your getting that +1 to wound and +1 damage so that maybe a desicison on that one, also no cawl so while you can boost to hitting on 3's you'll only re-roll on 1's
Terrible trourney play speaking with a grain of salt I think if your running stuff that can hit on 4 it makes sense to have cawl, re-rolls beat plus to hiit, keep the drill stygies for obvious reasos, and maybe even depending oin the mission inflirate the corpisstraii too and the drill with disco priests. The jazz hand priests can be threating with 6" move and 12" exploding shoots but if you 2nd the hit them or use thema screening
Sorry thread, I've had multiple drinks so poor spelling
Pomguo wrote: If you free up points I’d think they should go for a Manipulus - or am I missing the point of a Dominus and Cawl with Static Psalm Code in one detachment? To me that seems like the Dominus adds very little for his points that cawl can’t already give to most of an army. Manipulus on the other hand lets you out-range several of the more deadly gunline rivals you might face.
Hate to pester, but does anyone have advice for steering my list (quoted in the first post on this page)? I’ve not run this kind of mixed threat list and am wanting to get the most of my few pre-tourney practice games, so any basic gameplan or piloting pointers wpuld be welcome!
If your opponent goes first, you'll want to deploy transports so that their contents can appropriately respond in your turn. Put the transports somewhere your opponent isn't likely to blow them up, and where your priests will be able to counter-charge. Your Fulgurites are going to want to eliminate a unit ASAP, so try to predict where a potential victim is going to be. Also, you can place the transports in a manner that blocks 1st turn charges. I've been Stygies infiltrating my transports every game to make sure they go where they're needed.
Against most armies that are getting first turn, I put Dragoons where they are perceived as the highest threat. I try to entice my opponent into concentrating fire on them but I also try to limit their LOS enough so they have to move heavy weapons to get a shot. Sometimes I'll have to deploy them to screen or counter-charge, though.
Unless you have a plan in mind, you might consider trading the Arc Rifles on your Rangers for a Plasma in your barebones Vanguard squad.
If you weren't limited to one <Forge World> I'd suggest moving stuff around to get a min-sized Graia Battalion.
Game 1 was Adeptus Custodes with 3 Caladius, Shield Captain, Trajan, Icon Dude, 4 Bikers, and 3 units of 3 Terminators. I used the 4 transports to create some space against the CC elements of his list. And over 4 turns proceeded to table him. 3 Caladius just isn't enough to carry an opponent against all the regular firepower in the list.
Game 2 was against a space wolf player that rolls hot. This was just an exercise in pulling the CC elements out of buildings by sacrificing my robots. Once they were in the open and engaged the robots a combination of hopilites hitting in CC and then breaking away for shooting to finish them off.
Game 3 was against 3 riptide and 3 broadside Tau. First turn keeping the range open I lost a transport and a robot and 4 wounds off another. Hitting back I dropped most his drones, one riptide, 11/13 wounds on another riptide and 3 5-man fire warrior squads. Tunr 2 saw everything but a commander, 3 broadsides and 2 other characters dead and him conceding.
Overall the transports and their ability to provide depth and reach for my army and give my guns more time meant I never felt out of control of the game. I think the transports might actually be a bigger deal than the tanks. Though the tanks are amazing the transports were key to controlling the game. I think I am happy with my starting point for my army with the new list. Finished 1st by a point undefeated.
@Agamember thanks! I’m stuck with mono-FW for this event so the choice did come down to Cawl or this mixed Stygies list. I went with the latter in the end (and dropped the robots) because I’ve had real trouble playing Cawl lists well - I usually end up stuck castling somewhere and give uo way too many objectives all game, while still not killing enough fast enough. Thankfully we have a fairly low knights meta (or at least did at the last tourney) so hopefully it won’t be too bad to lack Cawl with WoM robots.
@the_Grak Thanks a lot for the focused and specific advice! Really helpful. As for the Arcs’ plan, mainly I like Arcs because I find the regular Galvanic rifles seem to do nothing every game but the Arcs have taken final wounds off flyers and light vehicles pretty frequently. So where I can i try to swap as many Galvanics for Arcs as i can. Meanwhile Vanguard regular guns do great even wounding on 6s in some matchups due to weight of fire (but especially against stuff like Orks that don’t have a great save). I was actually debating ditching another plasma for 3 arcs haha. But that might be based too much on my experiences and not enough on the actual math, so I’ll try to practice both loadouts and see which I prefer. Thanks again!
My Secondaries
Gangbusters
Butcher's Bill
Engineers
FINALLY, I run into one of the dozen Tau players at the tourney.
This is my third time at the same table, so I had massive familiarity with the terrain. He deployed his Devilfish, Crisis suits, and Commanders, aggressively, intending to seize the centerline of objectives. I deploy defensively in my deployment zone, with multiple layers of defense. I push the Dragoons into the center to force him to shoot them.
Round 1
His Turn
As expected, his army uses Mont'ka and advances his entire army into the center. He pours fire into my Dragoons, killing all but one, and the lead Grator, killing it. He also wounds some of my Skitarii and my Manipulus with snipers.
My Turn
I root and shoot Robots, killing most of his Crisis teams and most of his Shield Drones. I thin out even more Drones with Stubbers and try to drop Mortars on the Crisis Suits, finishing them off. The Crawlers pour into a transport, damaging it.
3-3
Round 2
His Turn
He blows a gap in my defenses and smuggles a Coldstar Commander in. He kills an Enginseer and ties up my Robots. I heroically intervene with the other Enginseer, who scores an axe hit on him. He also shreds a bunch of infantry, and his transports also charge and tie up various vehicles.
My Turn
I fall back with all of my CCed vehicles. I move my Cawl and Manipulus into the fight. They murder the Coldstar with their tentacles and axes. I gun down infantry and secure the objective with the lone survivor of my Skitarii unit. My surviving Skitarii manage to charge a unit of Breachers, then combat slide to tie up a vehicle as well.
My Dragoon charges and kills his Ethereal. My Callidus deep strikes behind the objective that I placed, assassinates the Marksman, and takes it for bonus points.
8-5
Round 3
His Turn
He disembarks his Breachers, and they kill a lot of my Skitarii. His transports go in for the charge. I destroy the one my Crawlers had been focusing on in OW. His second transport ties up my Robots and a Grator. He brings another one down to the last wound table.
He kills my last Dragoon. He almost kills my Callidus, leaving her at one wound.
13-7
My Turn
I fall back with the vehicles, again. I clear his infantry and secure the objective.
Round 4 We were out of time, having spent too many minutes trying to carefully position everything to prevent or enable charges. We had agreed to do an even split of time earlier for points (tourney has a four round minimum), so we both did nothing this round.
On a side note, I sort of regret my phrasing of this resolution to my opponent. When we were told that we each had 10 minutes to finish our turns, we were in the middle of my opponent's turn. I told him that I did not want a zero for not finishing four rounds, so we should agree to an even split here on out for score. So he would get an additional ten minutes, and I would finish my entire turn in ten minutes. He agreed. But I think he thought I meant that we would evenly split the SCORE in round four rather than the time remaining between us in round three. It did not make a difference, but I don't think that it would have been legal, so this is a good reminder to everyone that when this sort of thing happens, you should take an extra moment to be clear.
16-8
His Secondaries
Big Game Hunter 2/4
Headhunter 1/4
Recon 4/4
My Secondaries
Gangbusters 4/4
Butcher's Bill 3/4
Engineers 3/4
26-15 WIN
Game 5 - Tau'nar
Spoiler:
For reasons I am not willing to air in a public forum, this was the least fun game of 40K that I have ever played and thus will not write a report for it. But in spite of the frustrations, I want to be positive. So I will say that these are easily the most beautifully painted Tau models that I have ever seen.
Take-aways:
-I really, really, really miss my Las Striders. Whether it's shooting down a flyer a turn with BS3 rerolling Lascannons, out-punching tanks from my deployment, or using Dunestriders+Manipulus to advance 12"+2D6 up to a character's face and then shooting it with Lascannons that hit on 4+. Curse the hype for causing me to stray from what I know works.
-I am beginning to feel that I need both the Grators and the Transports. But that price tag is no joke. Maybe Drills with Plasma Vanguard or Fulgurites?
-This list is really expensive in terms of the clock. My previous list had a Knight Crusader with 4 Robots and 4 Las Striders. Easily managed to get four rounds done in 2.5 hours. This list? Man, there are a lot of units to move and weapons to shoot.
@Hulksmash
Very nice. I too am thinking that AdMech needs more ways to project power. If there is anything that this tournament has taught me, it's that we can't just sit in our deployment and shoot anymore. Too many extremes for us to handle with that sort of dominant strategy; no list can do well against hordes, Knights, aircraft, and battlesuits all at once. Being able to better play the board will be important.
I am worried that without high strength shooting, extreme matchups like Knights will be very difficult. Almost impossible.
@the_Grak
Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to reroll everything to kill stuff. Haha. But I actually think the biggest improvement for Cawl is the consistent Shroudpsalm.
@Agamembar, MrMoustaffa
Yeah, as I mentioned above, I totally regret no taking them this time. They have almost 100% hit rate, wound everything on 3 or better, and just force invulnerable saves. If they fail, you D6 damage them. Use the command reroll to secure kills.
On top of this, they are FAST. You can grab objectives and provide 2+ fire support without rerolls. You can run up to characters and snipe them at point blank. You can use them as a wall (Cognis Overwatch for 3+ on a full unit of 4 instantly kills most lone attackers).
Unfun and Tau go together like bangers and mash. Whether playing them or playing against them, their games seem to actively sap the fun out for me. I do love the Tuna model though.
Lastriders are amazing. Wish I had any! I used to proxy dragoons but my scene after I moved cities is no longer cool with that in casual games. And I need a better storage+transport solution if I am to buy any more chickens. I think Ferrumite Newtanks could help compensate but I feel like I want every Newtank doing mortars instead. If only they could squadron.
It's okay. We're one army that can make things very unfun for Tau. Normal ones anyway. My last opponent brought a Tau'nar (the Tau equivalent of a Warhound, valued at 1200 points or so), a Sky Ray, 15 Breachers, 2 Markers, and 48 Shield Drones or something. He basically just hid everything in ruins next to the Tau'nar and deleted things. Mortars and the Assassin were the only things that kept me in the game. Anyhow, while this was a challenging matchup for me, it was honestly not what made it unfun. Unfortunately, player conduct had more to do with it. I honestly had never felt so put upon before. But I'd like to think my opponent is a good guy, and we both perhaps were having an off game. I'll just leave it at that.
The Mortar tanks are irreplaceable in my opinion. I feel just about every competitive AdMech list I will be making in the future will feature at least two.
@Suzuteo: I wasn't being rhetorical. I'm genuinely interested in how to deal with plaguebearers without Cawl. Seems like his rerolls are the best answer but I don't run Mars.
I'm headed to TSHFT and I still haven't played against Chaos this edition so if anyone has tips, I could use them.
the_Grak wrote: @Suzuteo: I wasn't being rhetorical. I'm genuinely interested in how to deal with plaguebearers without Cawl. Seems like his rerolls are the best answer but I don't run Mars.
I'm headed to TSHFT and I still haven't played against Chaos this edition so if anyone has tips, I could use them.
I have, but not competativly. however multidamage weapons are fairly effective due to doubling difficulty of FNP saves. e.g. Belleros Mortar, Ironstrider Autocannons, Taser Lances and even Vanguard due to 6's to wound for 2D. Heavy Stubbers and Phosphor blasters would be a good backup. probably skitarii over Cult Mech due to Doctrinas & 3+ to hit. Failing that Fulgerites probably are good with mortal wounds bypassing the ++ saves.
Chaos usually has less firepower than Marines, but you could probably expect them to hit hard in combat.
If up against Mortarion hope you get first turn and focus fire before he gets all of his psychic/stratagem buffs off.
the_Grak wrote: @Suzuteo: I wasn't being rhetorical. I'm genuinely interested in how to deal with plaguebearers without Cawl. Seems like his rerolls are the best answer but I don't run Mars.
I'm headed to TSHFT and I still haven't played against Chaos this edition so if anyone has tips, I could use them.
Oh. Both Dragoons and Fulgurites can kill a ton of them; I think something like 8-10 a turn? They are T4, 6+/5+++, with minus 1 to hit over 20 models, right?
Aside from that, you can use a Doctrina to overcome their minus to hit. Otherwise, you can tarpit them and deal with them later (which is what I usually do).
Plaguebearers have a 5++ which can be increased to a 4++ via warpsurge stratagem. And they can get an additional minus 1 via a psychic power.
But yeah plaguebearers ate not the scary thing, it's those characters hiding behind them.
Whats your thoughs on drill loadout?
I personally like volkite a lot, but it doesnt even have the volkite rule, less range, about the same shots as the stormbolters. It has its +1 Strength and Damage going for it, but it also costs a lot more and is heavy, and you want to move with it.
Depends how much D2 you got in your list is the determining factor to me. After all, when we got Rangers and Vanguard, how much more anti-horde do you want?
I usually feel like the extra points aren’t worth it for -1 to hit and +1 to wound, which seems to be the tradeoff you’re making most of the time. While it does have the extra damage, there aren’t too many T4 multi-wound units with bad enough saves that it reliably kills more than the storm bolters do for all those extra points.
Thompson-style list with lots of mortal wound spam from Dakkabots and Fulgurites in Drills. It really does solve a lot of our problems. I can apply maximum Distraction Carnifex by infiltrating both with Fulgurites and an Enginseer to repair/soak overwatch (useful against Tau). Or I can keep one Fulgurite handy as a counter-charger and then just deep strike the Drill with 11-12 Vanguard inside. This solves the problem of games where my Mortars cleared a far-off objective, but I had no way to put any infantry on them.
I can also fit a unit of Dragoons in, which are also strong, but I think the meta just calls for more mortal wounds and more infantry capable of being inside ruins.
I was also actually impressed by Manipulus melee. I could give him +1S to help his tentacles wound a Crisis Commander. And his +1 movement is probably more important than his +6" range, which I only used in my first and second games. Anyhow, I think giving my Manipulus Pseudogenetor might be the way to go from now on.
But therein lies a problem. See, I want the minus to hit and the infiltration on my Fulgurite and Drills. But I also want the Manipulus to give them +1 to move, advance, and charge. The distance really adds up!
The other list is the Stygies list, also with Priests and Drills:
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Ironstriders for high strength LOS shooting. Grators as usual. Infiltrators and Assassin for deep striking. Fulgurites and Dragoons backed by melee Manipulus for mobility shenanigans.
The manipulus with the pseudogenowhatever is something I considered, but that's going to be what, average 7 mechadendrite attacks between the two? Is that really worth a relic? Don't get me wrong it's cool as hell, but if I'm gonna do something like that I'd almost rather throw the Mars pattern axe on a Dominus or something. Heck Id rather have a phosphoenix on the Dominus to let him finish off wounded units. Not really much else worth choosing other than the autodecaneus though I guess, so it doesn't hurt.
I do agree his movement buffs are huge. Watching Metalica vanguard advance 14" or robots going 16" is pretty crazy. Since so much of our stuff moves in the 6-12 range it really helps. I don't think I've used the range buff once. Not that the range buff is bad so much as I just value the movement.
Personally I like that second list. Anything Mars just feels too static to me. Cawls good don't get me wrong, but it just feels a lot less flexible than the second list. Yeah you have some fulgurite and drills but the robots ideally need to be static to hit as hard.
Meanwhile that second list has lastriders that can move 11"+2d6+1 inches and still hit on 3's with 2 CP, Dragoons that are fast and aggressive, infiltrators that can drop anywhere and WoM, plus all the mobile stuff the Mars list has. You also have pysker denial. Really the only issue I see is less anti horde but the Skorpius seem pretty good at it and other units can pick up the slack too. That and the same problem any non Mars has of being more at the mercy of canticles.
Something I could do is drop Dragoons to run two Drills+Priests in the second list. Fulgurites are like melee Kastelans. They vomit mortal wounds, clear all sorts of infantry, can fight twice...
They want the same targets Autocannons are best against - T3-5 2W models.
Trading a strength for indirect fire is vastly worth it imo. Things like termies, primaris, nobz, or whatever cant hide from it but they can hide from autocannons.
I really have been spoiled with wyverns. I took 3 today with all the shiny vigilus shenanigans and it’s just insane how many shots they put out
Trying to get excited for them but every target I compare them to is inferior. The one caveat is they are cheap points and you don’t need to throw 7CP into them to function
So if I build Admech Imperial soup that requires a lot of CP they could shine as the budget less effective version
And obviously as mono Admech they are the best option available
I really have been spoiled with wyverns. I took 3 today with all the shiny vigilus shenanigans and it’s just insane how many shots they put out
Trying to get excited for them but every target I compare them to is inferior. The one caveat is they are cheap points and you don’t need to throw 7CP into them to function
So if I build Admech Imperial soup that requires a lot of CP they could shine as the budget less effective version
And obviously as mono Admech they are the best option available
You're looking at them the wrong way, especially compared to a wyvern. A wyvern is hyper specialized. It does one thing to the exclusion of all others and that's it. If that got caught in the open, or had to fight a knight list, it's not going to have a good time.
Meanwhile a Skorpius is kind of a Swiss army knife. It's a halfway decent tank, it's decently fast, it can threaten tanks, infantry, whatever, and it even gives buffs to infantry around it. Not to mention it's a great wall to block LOs, charges, screen, or even move up to grab an objective if need be. Don't look at it as "what one thing does the skorpius well" so much as a unit that no matter what you fight, will have a genuine use and purpose. I've yet to have a game where the Belleros felt useless. I've picked on Armigers hiding out of LOS, cleaned up infantry on backfield objectives, thrown it at tanks, etc. It's never going to obliterate a target but its one of the few "jack of all trades" units in this game that actually does that idea pretty well in my opinion.
And as you notice their CP cost is non-existent. That goes a long way when everything else we have feels like it's fighting for CP support.
That's my take on it at least. I have two and they're gonna be in every list from here on
I really have been spoiled with wyverns. I took 3 today with all the shiny vigilus shenanigans and it’s just insane how many shots they put out
Trying to get excited for them but every target I compare them to is inferior. The one caveat is they are cheap points and you don’t need to throw 7CP into them to function
So if I build Admech Imperial soup that requires a lot of CP they could shine as the budget less effective version
And obviously as mono Admech they are the best option available
You're looking at them the wrong way, especially compared to a wyvern. A wyvern is hyper specialized. It does one thing to the exclusion of all others and that's it. If that got caught in the open, or had to fight a knight list, it's not going to have a good time.
Meanwhile a Skorpius is kind of a Swiss army knife. It's a halfway decent tank, it's decently fast, it can threaten tanks, infantry, whatever, and it even gives buffs to infantry around it. Not to mention it's a great wall to block LOs, charges, screen, or even move up to grab an objective if need be. Don't look at it as "what one thing does the skorpius well" so much as a unit that no matter what you fight, will have a genuine use and purpose. I've yet to have a game where the Belleros felt useless. I've picked on Armigers hiding out of LOS, cleaned up infantry on backfield objectives, thrown it at tanks, etc. It's never going to obliterate a target but its one of the few "jack of all trades" units in this game that actually does that idea pretty well in my opinion.
And as you notice their CP cost is non-existent. That goes a long way when everything else we have feels like it's fighting for CP support.
That's my take on it at least. I have two and they're gonna be in every list from here on
Completly agree here - I have found they are so useful. I currently only have one but when I next start spending that will probably change. Minimal CP investment is always nice as well (there ar two strats that might be of use occasionally - Protecter Imperative & cognis overwatch both only occasionally needed and only 1CP).
I am just about to start an escalation league this weekend (the points start at 600 and increase each week up to 2k, we also can't remove models from our lists) and my skorpius is in my starting 600pts list because of its cheapness and the fact that it has many roles to play in an AdMech list.
I've found them awesome against Tau Shield Drones. If the drone fails a save it's generally dead instead of ignoring the fail. Same with PB's or anything with 1 wound and FnP.
Also I don't judge the tank on just it's mortar. 9 heavy stubber shots and d6 st7 d3 damage shots is solid as well. It's a pretty awesome platform for 111. The versatility is it's best attribute. Plus it can move and fire
Judging anything with multiple forms of attacking for 1 way it attacks is kinda unfair in the first place. If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots? Even with the LoS ignoring part, thats pretty bad. It would need twice that RoF to be worth the points at the strength it fires. But it has quite a few bits of dakka. The LoS ignoring part is a bonus in case something is hiding from you, you shouldnt strive for it because then you are only using it more often than not and it wont ever make its points back. Had this been 7th, i could understand that argument. My rebuttle every time someone complained about my tau SMS weapons was "who the heck do i have SMS' on that doesnt have a significantly bigger, deadlier gun??? If i actually use the indirect fire, i lose out the big gun firepower" But now we can splitfire so thats not a prob
Game 5 - Shield Drones (mortars), Breachers (stubbers, mortar); both hiding in ruins
One thing you should be aware of is that the second point of damage is not wasted on Shield Drones or anything with FNP. He has to make two FNP rolls, which rarely succeeds.
Hulksmash wrote: I've found them awesome against Tau Shield Drones. If the drone fails a save it's generally dead instead of ignoring the fail. Same with PB's or anything with 1 wound and FnP.
Also I don't judge the tank on just it's mortar. 9 heavy stubber shots and d6 st7 d3 damage shots is solid as well. It's a pretty awesome platform for 111. The versatility is it's best attribute. Plus it can move and fire
Ah. Hulksmash beat me to it. But yeah, these Grators are amazing. They do everything but fight: screen, grab objectives, shoot non-LOS, shoot LOS. There is a reason why every one of my new lists have three of them. I never found them useless. In fact, they made my Crawlers and even my Robots look a bit useless at times.
One thing I did forget to mention is don't expect any crazy game winning plays out of them. For all we talk them up, they're actually a pretty modest unit in practice. They're just really consistent and reliable. That said, the most shining endorsement I can think of is the moment an opponent saw what they did, they started lighting them up, even when bots or lastriders were around. Anytime your opponent looks at something and says "I want that gone" it's probably doing something useful for your list.
Thompson-style list with lots of mortal wound spam from Dakkabots and Fulgurites in Drills. It really does solve a lot of our problems. I can apply maximum Distraction Carnifex by infiltrating both with Fulgurites and an Enginseer to repair/soak overwatch (useful against Tau). Or I can keep one Fulgurite handy as a counter-charger and then just deep strike the Drill with 11-12 Vanguard inside. This solves the problem of games where my Mortars cleared a far-off objective, but I had no way to put any infantry on them.
I can also fit a unit of Dragoons in, which are also strong, but I think the meta just calls for more mortal wounds and more infantry capable of being inside ruins.
I was also actually impressed by Manipulus melee. I could give him +1S to help his tentacles wound a Crisis Commander. And his +1 movement is probably more important than his +6" range, which I only used in my first and second games. Anyhow, I think giving my Manipulus Pseudogenetor might be the way to go from now on.
But therein lies a problem. See, I want the minus to hit and the infiltration on my Fulgurite and Drills. But I also want the Manipulus to give them +1 to move, advance, and charge. The distance really adds up!
The other list is the Stygies list, also with Priests and Drills:
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Ironstriders for high strength LOS shooting. Grators as usual. Infiltrators and Assassin for deep striking. Fulgurites and Dragoons backed by melee Manipulus for mobility shenanigans.
I personally like the second list better, but I have absolutely 0 tournament experience in 8th edition, so....use your best judgement.
I will say that it pains me to see such small squads of infantry. I play, and have played, a lot of armies, but my favorites have been those that waves upon waves of troops. Guard, orks, and daemons. I have a fair amount of skitarii that I am finishing building and plan on running at some point soon-60ish skitarri infantry backing up knights.
MrMoustaffa wrote: One thing I did forget to mention is don't expect any crazy game winning plays out of them. For all we talk them up, they're actually a pretty modest unit in practice. They're just really consistent and reliable. That said, the most shining endorsement I can think of is the moment an opponent saw what they did, they started lighting them up, even when bots or lastriders were around. Anytime your opponent looks at something and says "I want that gone" it's probably doing something useful for your list.
In my game two, I actually sacrificed my Robots and then a Crawler to protect my Grators. (It was a ruins-heavy board, and I was playing against Guard. Non-LOS shooting was super, super important.) But yeah, their effect is cumulative. Over the course of four rounds, you will be amazed at the sort of impact they have on the game. They reminded me of Basilisks, only better because of Cawl rerolls, Shroudpsalm, extra dakka, and excellent movement.
Vineheart01 wrote: If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots?
Not sure how you reached those numbers? 3D3 is 6 shots on average and a minimum of 3 shots, while an autocannon ironstrider has 4 shots.
As i said i m heading towards more flexible list so definetly the second one Suzuteo is going that way.
Both types of priest infiltrators mixed detachment wrath of mars depending on enemy etc. That list can be mobile lethal as you said you can use cp where you need them be mobile still ahve the mortals /options to face anything etc. It was the time of Cawl and kataphrons all thsi year and trully enjoyed it and breachers before fly rule and destroyers that i field still.
But from now on and with new tanks etc the list can become a lot more flexible mobile etc and that is where im heading.
Still have not gotten down to it cause i m still preparing for ETc and heading there next week . But i will start experimenting soon after.
Your second list is closer to my thinking just some tips to consider.
1) Grator got low range so you should consider manipulus and Grators same team starting even if manipulus move out soon enough. Deployment with him so thats 1.
2) Definetly i will consider my pure detachment as stygies for -1 to hit and infiltration.
3) definetly it will have a mixed detachment for options like.
dual mars threat units most likely pew pew priest and infiltrators etc etc.
i have not settled yet to the whole idea but i cosnider the build to be something like two units for everything.
Stygies asasault mars pew pew options grai for deny etc. that said i can see balistarii mars grator stygies melee priest stygies pew corpuscary mars infiltrators mars grai troops. etc.
Vineheart01 wrote: If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots?
Not sure how you reached those numbers? 3D3 is 6 shots on average and a minimum of 3 shots, while an autocannon ironstrider has 4 shots.
Less shots per cost sorry, was comparing 2 autostriders there as the tank is 2x the cost-ish of an ironstrider And i dunno bout you guys but i roll 7 on a 3d3 about 80% of the time or so. Almost never more, occationally less but usually 7
Vineheart01 wrote: If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots?
Not sure how you reached those numbers? 3D3 is 6 shots on average and a minimum of 3 shots, while an autocannon ironstrider has 4 shots.
Less shots per cost sorry, was comparing 2 autostriders there as the tank is 2x the cost-ish of an ironstrider
And i dunno bout you guys but i roll 7 on a 3d3 about 80% of the time or so. Almost never more, occationally less but usually 7
Well they also have 9 stubber shots and ~3.5 better autocannon shots additionally. Only real thing striders are good at is their efficient CP usage
That's quite nice. Not my cup of tea but very retro.
Has anyone done a conversion for the duneriders yet? I still hate it, but I would be interested in turning back to my AdMech to add some useful vehicles.
ph34r wrote: That's quite nice. Not my cup of tea but very retro.
Has anyone done a conversion for the duneriders yet? I still hate it, but I would be interested in turning back to my AdMech to add some useful vehicles.
I personally love its look but ive seen some people do decent conversions from rhinos
ph34r wrote: That's quite nice. Not my cup of tea but very retro.
Has anyone done a conversion for the duneriders yet? I still hate it, but I would be interested in turning back to my AdMech to add some useful vehicles.
They have been revealed for months but they’ll first be released in this Barnes & Noble mini-game and then later as part of the Escalation expansion for Blackstone Fortress.
Pomguo wrote: They have been revealed for months but they’ll first be released in this Barnes & Noble mini-game and then later as part of the Escalation expansion for Blackstone Fortress.
Guess we'll see if he adds anything useful. I have a feeling he'll be named and locked to a Forgeworld but here's hoping anyone can use him. He looks easy to make at least. Skitarii body with an arc pistol, omnispex, and some techpriest bits slapped on. Seems like a good use for all those spare cybernetica datasmith everyone has.
Pomguo wrote: They have been revealed for months but they’ll first be released in this Barnes & Noble mini-game and then later as part of the Escalation expansion for Blackstone Fortress.
Guess we'll see if he adds anything useful. I have a feeling he'll be named and locked to a Forgeworld but here's hoping anyone can use him. He looks easy to make at least. Skitarii body with an arc pistol, omnispex, and some techpriest bits slapped on. Seems like a good use for all those spare cybernetica datasmith everyone has.
I would mind if he was named character if he was: a)any good b)bring something new to the table c)non mars
That said, there is small chance that they will introduce him to 40 k in similar way as Manipoulous aka here is hir story, but grab this generic data sheet. Small one, wouldn't cling to that hope, but there is one.
One interesting difference is the use of Plasma Vanguard instead of Fulgurites. He even takes a Dominus, which is a bit weird. Anyhow, my greatest concern is the absence of a counter-charger. I guess you could use a Drill, but it doesn't seem ideal to me. Especially against a horde like Orks or GSC.
One interesting difference is the use of Plasma Vanguard instead of Fulgurites. He even takes a Dominus, which is a bit weird. Anyhow, my greatest concern is the absence of a counter-charger. I guess you could use a Drill, but it doesn't seem ideal to me. Especially against a horde like Orks or GSC.
Interesting, thats what I had in mind too.
Ryza Drill with Plasma vanguards and a Dominus, maybe even enginseer as we have enough of them, and I wont have any other vehicles in Ryza anyway. I still wonder if a 10 Man Vanguard unit is better, you lose the extra alpha, plasma, have to invest in the EDT, although LD is still an issue and you have to fill another Troop slot for battalions. If you want to invest into the +1 to hit and ryza stratagem for them it might be lethal, dont know if its worth the trade though. Another Problem might be that you have to be in coherency and with 2 units you can disembark on both sides during deepstrike if the situation demands so.
One interesting difference is the use of Plasma Vanguard instead of Fulgurites. He even takes a Dominus, which is a bit weird. Anyhow, my greatest concern is the absence of a counter-charger. I guess you could use a Drill, but it doesn't seem ideal to me. Especially against a horde like Orks or GSC.
running vanguards in drills is interesting, makes the delivery less reliant on a 9" charge like the fulgurites.
I personally have found that taking a lucius enginseer in a mixed detachment just to put the solar flare on him is pretty useful. Since most of our relics suck ass, i love having the option of teleporting on some backfield objective / behind enemy lines for linebreaker.
One interesting difference is the use of Plasma Vanguard instead of Fulgurites. He even takes a Dominus, which is a bit weird. Anyhow, my greatest concern is the absence of a counter-charger. I guess you could use a Drill, but it doesn't seem ideal to me. Especially against a horde like Orks or GSC.
running vanguards in drills is interesting, makes the delivery less reliant on a 9" charge like the fulgurites.
I personally have found that taking a lucius enginseer in a mixed detachment just to put the solar flare on him is pretty useful. Since most of our relics suck ass, i love having the option of teleporting on some backfield objective / behind enemy lines for linebreaker.
VladimirHerzog wrote: running vanguards in drills is interesting, makes the delivery less reliant on a 9" charge like the fulgurites.
I personally have found that taking a lucius enginseer in a mixed detachment just to put the solar flare on him is pretty useful. Since most of our relics suck ass, i love having the option of teleporting on some backfield objective / behind enemy lines for linebreaker.
Why... did I never think of this.
You know, I thought I didn't need it. Then I played Quadruple Knights and a Tau'nar Supremacy Armour in the same tourney. And they went first both times.
Now I feel like maybe I need it. There's just no missions to score against.
Now I like the hopilites but I feel like another source of mortals would be nice and I'm finally being tempted by stick priests. So I'm considering the following 4 options;
-Leave it alone
-Drop Robot, Drop 2x10 Hopilites, add 2x9 Fulgurites
-Drop Robot, Drop 10 Hopilites, add 10 Fulgurites, Add 5 Rangers to a Squad
-Drop Robot, Drop 10 Vanguard, add 5 Rangers, add 10 Fulgurites
I find that when in doubt, go to what you originally planned; you naturally default to the models you are most familiar with and like, both of which are very important psychologically. I really regret adjusting last second to specialize against Tau, only to run into one actual Tau list. (None of the top lists were Tau.)
Keep three Robots. Two Robots is not enough to kill some of the heavier units.
Now I like the hopilites but I feel like another source of mortals would be nice and I'm finally being tempted by stick priests. So I'm considering the following 4 options;
-Leave it alone
-Drop Robot, Drop 2x10 Hopilites, add 2x9 Fulgurites
-Drop Robot, Drop 10 Hopilites, add 10 Fulgurites, Add 5 Rangers to a Squad
-Drop Robot, Drop 10 Vanguard, add 5 Rangers, add 10 Fulgurites
ive never felt that hoplites do enough from what ive experienced so far. I would much rather have some fulgurites since they can actually singlehandely turn games around if used properly. I've also stopped using kastellans a long time ago, i just feel like its too easy to play around them.
i would personally drop all the robots, drop hoplites, add 2x10 fulgus and fill out the rest with dragoons, at that point cawl also becomes less interesting and i'd think about going stygies for the more aggressive alpha strike
Agreed ATM as games and meta develop i can see Cawl as a tax and easy to kill char with s many planes mbkility etc .
1)New tank seems cheap and effective .
2) mixed detachment can have some serious synergies liike
Ryza plasma , lucius troops engineer , Agripiina ,graia.
3) counter units like priests can win the game
4) spread units / threats can.be v v extreme to deal with like
Corpuscsri and infiltrators ...
Since you can have varrious detachments and not lock in Mars ATM you can invest in a stygies detachment giving you .
Duuarable troops with sniper back field good defence tanks or even good dragoons .
5) you can even add plasma vanguard's with ryza pretty lethal tbh. And soomewhat cheap
Etc now that you got los shooting and you will invest in solo ad mech lists + transports you can go heavier on troops options straagems . And you will need them with out allies .
Now I like the hopilites but I feel like another source of mortals would be nice and I'm finally being tempted by stick priests. So I'm considering the following 4 options;
-Leave it alone
-Drop Robot, Drop 2x10 Hopilites, add 2x9 Fulgurites
-Drop Robot, Drop 10 Hopilites, add 10 Fulgurites, Add 5 Rangers to a Squad
-Drop Robot, Drop 10 Vanguard, add 5 Rangers, add 10 Fulgurites
ive never felt that hoplites do enough from what ive experienced so far. I would much rather have some fulgurites since they can actually singlehandely turn games around if used properly. I've also stopped using kastellans a long time ago, i just feel like its too easy to play around them.
i would personally drop all the robots, drop hoplites, add 2x10 fulgus and fill out the rest with dragoons, at that point cawl also becomes less interesting and i'd think about going stygies for the more aggressive alpha strike
Stygies fails to generally get past flyer gatekeeper lists. And with the Caladius going crazy right now that's another thing that cawl massively helps with. Aslo dropping 410pts would get me 2 units of fulgurites and 1.5 dragoons. Dropping Cawl would only bring that up to 4. The value isn't there. I want to like Dragoons but I think they are going to suffer from the same issues as breachers. The increase in Caladius and Chaos Gatling Knights means they'll fall by the wayside. It's only going to take a single game against a helmeted chaos knight for people to drop dragoons.
Imperial Knights Superheavy Aux (Krast, -2 CP) -1CP Exalted Court, -1CP Heirlooms of the Household Knight Crusader /w Thermal Cannon, Ironstorm [468]
Total 2000 points, 11CP to start.
Since this is my first Major and I signed up last-minute when someone dropped, I made changes to keep things simple. I'd rather get all my rules correct and be quick on the clock, than show up with a full toolbox and be thumbing my way through the codex every game and still forget to leverage all my opportunities.
I'm not so sure about dealing with Eldar flyers and triple Crusader, as I'll struggle once my knight is focused down, but I think I have a solid foundation for scoring secondaries and taking board control against most armies.
As soon as I get them built and painted, I'll be switching from Dunecrawlers to Belleros grators, and making room for two more Dragoons.
@Hulksmash
I agree that Cawl helps a ton against Eldar flyers, but I am no so sure if Caladius and Chaos Knights are what threaten Dragoons. In fact, if they are shooting my Dragoons, I am quite happy. They could be trying to kill my Grators or Robots instead.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What do you guys think about this take on that Summer Slaughter list?
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 963 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 773 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Mixed Battalion Detachment - 430
HQ - 115 1x Mars Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon
1x Lucius Tech-Priest Enginseer, Relic: The Solar Flare
My thinking is that Robots+Grators, supported by Cawl and Manipulus, are the best firebase you can have.
You then have two deep-striking units of Ryzaguard in Drills, which can also be deployed embarked to help the firebase turtle.
Because I have Robots, I don't need Infiltrators to compete with them, so I opted for 15x Corpuscarii instead. Lucius for the option to deepstrike, of course. I find them really underrated, actually. They fill this weird S5 shooting gap in our army (we tend to overkill Boyz and Stealers), can shoot and fight decently well, and can make good use of Acquisition stratagem.
The problem is the minute you add cawl you are locked into a frirebase that sticks close to cawl and therefore leaves you stationary not to mention a huge pts cost this might be a good firebase but its no good for board control
A knight +stygies crawlers/grators/dragoons gives you much more flexibility and mobility to cover a greater proportion of the board
U02dah4 wrote: The problem is the minute you add cawl you are locked into a frirebase that sticks close to cawl and therefore leaves you stationary not to mention a huge pts cost this might be a good firebase but its no good for board control
A knight +stygies crawlers/grators/dragoons gives you much more flexibility and mobility to cover a greater proportion of the board
This isnt true about Cawl at all. Some people opt to stay still but you dont have too. Additionally the firebase is less than half the army. If the other half is still dedicated to spreading out and causing mayhem then you still have board control options. The current list I posted was fighting in my opponents deployment zone turn 3 at the latest.
I've found that dropping my breachers allowed the cybernetics cohort tone run and my robots dont generally plant till round 2/3 unless I desperately need the wrath hits.
U02dah4 wrote: The problem is the minute you add cawl you are locked into a frirebase that sticks close to cawl and therefore leaves you stationary not to mention a huge pts cost this might be a good firebase but its no good for board control
A knight +stygies crawlers/grators/dragoons gives you much more flexibility and mobility to cover a greater proportion of the board
This isnt true about Cawl at all. Some people opt to stay still but you dont have too. Additionally the firebase is less than half the army. If the other half is still dedicated to spreading out and causing mayhem then you still have board control options. The current list I posted was fighting in my opponents deployment zone turn 3 at the latest.
I've found that dropping my breachers allowed the cybernetics cohort tone run and my robots dont generally plant till round 2/3 unless I desperately need the wrath hits.
in the traditional cawl caste, you move 8" max per turn, dropping the kastellan and cawl in favor of disintegrators gives you a highly mobily firebase, you no longer need a bubble od death in a corner, your bubble of death is spread across the battlefield. this makes you get objectives easier (duh) but also lowers the impact that a successful charge has, you wont lose multiple tanks if a single model makes it in. I'd rather go for an assault list with admech at the moment, backed up by 3 skorpius and some onagers. having 2 units of fulgurites and dragoons threathen the T1 charge is no joke.
Sigh. You missed the point. Even if only 1/2 your army is only moving 8" the rest is generally moving with the new transports 12". This means that you do the firebase with cawl and the cc/board control element separately. With generally better late turn options.
Personally I've found that first turn cc alpha strikes are cute but they aren't going to win you games at the higher level because if people are prepped to move block gsc theyll have zero issue keeping you out. That said you should be focused on a good turn 2 delivery after clearing the screening with 2 shooting phases.
You often stand comparatively still in cawl base because of the stationary kastelans and if only half your army is benefiting from cawl hes not very efficient pts wise
U02dah4 wrote: You often stand comparatively still in cawl base because of the stationary kastelans and if only half your army is benefiting from cawl hes not very efficient pts wise
If it's the hard shooting half its efficient. If you're investing more than 1k in heavy shooters (i.e. robots, tanks, crawlers, destroyers) then you're right. But that's not what people should be doing anymore. Missions and opponents are requiring movement. So if half your army grabs objective and points and disrupts and has to be dealt with while 1k of extremely efficient shooting handles your opponent then your doing it right. Also the whole army doesnt have to stay right on cawl. If there are no negative modifiers and you want to spread out then cawl helps get that reroll 1s for shooting which means your tanks at least can drive off and still shoot almost as well as when hes there. Cawl offers options amd stability. Hes not just a reroll machine. Also hes a solid counter attack option against more lesser combat units.
Hulksmash wrote: Sigh. You missed the point. Even if only 1/2 your army is only moving 8" the rest is generally moving with the new transports 12". This means that you do the firebase with cawl and the cc/board control element separately. With generally better late turn options.
Personally I've found that first turn cc alpha strikes are cute but they aren't going to win you games at the higher level because if people are prepped to move block gsc theyll have zero issue keeping you out. That said you should be focused on a good turn 2 delivery after clearing the screening with 2 shooting phases.
Cawl "forces" you to stay in his aura, which means that a good chunk of the army isnt able to move 100% freely, im not saying this doesnt work, i'm saying that IMO its a boring playstyle that is less rewarding than playing admech with a very high mobility, im not saying you need to ditch all tanks, i'm just saying that i personally value the -1 to hit more than having mars'sdogma + cawl.
With fulgurites, you dont NEED them to connect with the backline, having them wipe the screen and get a 3++ is more than enough since they will now act as a gigantic distraction carnifex for the opponent. If the opponent doesnt kill them , they will kill him, which means taht your grators and onagers wont get touched for a turn since fulgurites are a pain to take down.
I agree that admech is a hammer and anvil kind of army, what i'm saying is that i find Cawl not useful enough because he comes with a kastellan tax and that i feel kastellans are easily played around/countered
Hulksmash wrote: Sigh. You missed the point. Even if only 1/2 your army is only moving 8" the rest is generally moving with the new transports 12". This means that you do the firebase with cawl and the cc/board control element separately. With generally better late turn options.
Personally I've found that first turn cc alpha strikes are cute but they aren't going to win you games at the higher level because if people are prepped to move block gsc theyll have zero issue keeping you out. That said you should be focused on a good turn 2 delivery after clearing the screening with 2 shooting phases.
Cawl "forces" you to stay in his aura, which means that a good chunk of the army isnt able to move 100% freely, im not saying this doesnt work, i'm saying that IMO its a boring playstyle that is less rewarding than playing admech with a very high mobility, im not saying you need to ditch all tanks, i'm just saying that i personally value the -1 to hit more than having mars'sdogma + cawl.
With fulgurites, you dont NEED them to connect with the backline, having them wipe the screen and get a 3++ is more than enough since they will now act as a gigantic distraction carnifex for the opponent. If the opponent doesnt kill them , they will kill him, which means taht your grators and onagers wont get touched for a turn since fulgurites are a pain to take down.
I agree that admech is a hammer and anvil kind of army, what i'm saying is that i find Cawl not useful enough because he comes with a kastellan tax and that i feel kastellans are easily played around/countered
I've found the -1 to be overrated. It's nice but doesn't compare with a blanket 16% increase in durability across the army outside of CC and of adding another bonus plus additional counter-attack and rerolls for shooting. Additionally I've found crawlers to be poop with the icarus without cawl. He makes them useful for matches other than units with fly. It's not just about the robots. In fact, I tend to use my robots more as bait for enemy guns now because everyone is terrified of them but they're still a super resilient platform which makes it fun when your opponent wastes all his round 1 shooting killing robots (and normally not finishing the squad). That gives my cc/ground control and heavy fire support an extra turn of life just like a "distraction" carnifex while also being able to impact the game every single turn they aren't dead unlike the striders.
I'm going to just go with we play different opponents and styles. Most armies I play aren't designed to shut out a single round but multiples. What that means is they'll feed crap into the fulgurites while their guns still blaze away at vehicles. I'm not talking about "tactics" for beating round 1-3 opponents at a GT or a local RTT. I understand what your saying and agree that it's fine normally. I build my lists for the 4-6+ rounds when you start to run into better run and built lists which is why I'm not a fan of cc alpha strikes. To much can go wrong with those unit over the course of 6+ games that is highly unlikely in 3 games.
I dont mean that you NEED to use the melee alpha strike, its just an option you have. Depending on the matchup you might decide to play them as counter charges instead, or even just as t2-3 objective grabber (if running the drill)
Cawl lists are not static. Haven't been since Vigilus Defiant. We've only gotten more mobile with Manipulus. Our "slowest" unit are Robots that can run 10"+D6 and still shoot at BS5. Take Cawl as your Warlord for the aura range increase. 18" diameter is quite a large area.
That being said, I rarely need to move more than two turns. My Robots are at a strategic point and rooted usually by round two. Sooner if the enemy is coming to me.
Against non minus to hit flying, Crawlers can operate without Cawl. Otherwise, they should be near Cawl.
U02dah4 wrote: when you describe your key unit as rooted that says something about its actual mobility
While Im all for mobility, bring rooted isn't always a bad thing if you've got a key area or objective locked down. For example if your bots are holding a central objective it doesn't really matter if they can't move. Theyre holding the Objective, theyre keeping stuff away from it, that's a legitimate role.
That said I am wondering if there's a case for non rooted robots though. The more I use cybernetica Metalica Kastellans the more I wonder if I shouldn't be switching to protector at all. Basically just using the advance and shoot every turn in aegis mode and soaking fire for the rest of the army. I don't know if I'd do it for any other FW, mayyyyybbeeeee stygies for the infiltrate and -1 to hit, but I've found the mobility combined with the durability actually concerned several people I played against. Don't get me wrong MW are good, but the weight of fire is there to threaten just about anything. Whether that was the flamer mode closing in on hard to hit targets or straight guns just moving inside -1 to hit range, seeing bots unafraid to move was a curveball they didn't expect. And I'd just move them up to a central objective and once I was happy break their legs.
If you did want to go that way, I think you'd need like 6 robots and need to go full deathstar mode. 6 robots sprinting around the table in aegis with shroudpsalm would be hell to deal with in shooting, and then if you have flamers good luck charging them with anything short of a superheavy.
U02dah4 wrote: when you describe your key unit as rooted that says something about its actual mobility
Well, the point of mobility is to get to a strategic point. Once you're there, you switch to holding it. In any case, I have never really regretted my Robots' inability to move. Usually, they make all of their points back on that turn and then some.
Either my luck with ruststalkers is weirdly high, or theyre deadlier than ive been lead to believe. Thats yet another game where they hid out of sight and immediately charged whatever deepstriked near me and absolutely wrecked them (10x lightning claw marines in this case, 5x thunderhammer termies in the first game)
not going to bother mentioning the rest as it was the usual "I fire 200x S4 shots with no AP against T7 targets" i seem to face alot. Whitescar biker army. Lots and lots of highly accurate S4 shots....and like 10 meltas.
Either my luck with ruststalkers is weirdly high, or theyre deadlier than ive been lead to believe. Thats yet another game where they hid out of sight and immediately charged whatever deepstriked near me and absolutely wrecked them (10x lightning claw marines in this case, 5x thunderhammer termies in the first game)
not going to bother mentioning the rest as it was the usual "I fire 200x S4 shots with no AP against T7 targets" i seem to face alot. Whitescar biker army. Lots and lots of highly accurate S4 shots....and like 10 meltas.
AFAIK the bad rap they get is not about the damage output but rather the delivery means, especially compared with Infiltrators with native DS and better damage at range (in case of failed charge from DS). If used as counter-charge as you did they should be rather fine.
To march upfield, you'd need Lucius/Stygies to help over walking hugging cover/noLOS. Or... a transport The Skorpius should help them make more appearances on the battlefields.
Either my luck with ruststalkers is weirdly high, or theyre deadlier than ive been lead to believe. Thats yet another game where they hid out of sight and immediately charged whatever deepstriked near me and absolutely wrecked them (10x lightning claw marines in this case, 5x thunderhammer termies in the first game)
.
AFAIK the bad rap they get is not about the damage output but rather the delivery means, especially compared with Infiltrators with native DS and better damage at range (in case of failed charge from DS). If used as counter-charge as you did they should be rather fine.
To march upfield, you'd need Lucius/Stygies to help over walking hugging cover/noLOS. Or... a transport The Skorpius should help them make more appearances on the battlefields.
Though with said transport, one could make a case that Fulgurites are even better still.
I so much want to like the cool Rusties, but its hard to take them over Fulgurites if you want to go competetive methinks.
I m affraid I see again numerous talks about what we do with our robot while what said was current meta does not favor robot Cawl.
Robots ... Why would you want to rush robot forward ??? Robot + manipul. Got a 50" threat turn one. Gg . Yes that issue of durability is important but if you want it you stay aegis. And you still got no melee iinvu . So to get it over with robots are v v good only if they double shoot as Mars . Not if they move or melee or nothing else . If you do anything else they are a waste always vs other same point options ...!
The real problem is not what robot s do for us . The real issue is we need to pin them in the ground and to cut it short 10 guardman consolidating in your ppinned robot not only stop 330+++ point shooting but also take obj deny area but also make your expensive tax charr move out to kill then and there if your enemy got any brain Cawl dies . Or robots locked and that is a 330 minimum + 190 + 90 manipulus not even taking the obj you payed half your list to do what?? Wanna talk about heavy terrain or true exeirnced enemies with juummpack fliers etc .
When the rule for fly changed again so the lists did. And since the only reason you ttrully need Cawl is if you got Breacher sppamm robots Icarus etc you must force your list towards that philosophy . Do it if you want a gun line and it's not bad especially if you heading vs enemies of -1-2 to hit but you will definitely then need allies to get cheap and super good options to cover the few points left .
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cawl 190 . Superb when he was really tough to kill . And yyou see eveen if he suppose to be our counter unit dealing wiith threats ttowards ouur guns I talk about surviiving. It's one thing to not HIIT hard kiill enemies or be more of a antihorde and another to die vs any enemy char. So I have to take cawl giive him 9" aura add bs4+ Icarus breacheers etc to eveen worth ,190 points?
I love him and I love the gun line he create but as I said he is suuperb when combo with lots of uniits to a) rr bs4+ or vs fliers etc b) lots of units to gaiin the buff canticles like breacheers that's arre perfect ith Cawl c) know you will have a more static gunline at least back field d) you need seriously a counter unit good one heavy hiittterr and screen bigger than normal. So gun line no more points?
Why not go that way . A) because we have been playing it already some years . And mostly cause
B)there is a good chance now with new units tanks transports manipulus and mixed detachment to make a classic meta 2019 glass hyper flexible list that if prracttised and played seriously you . That's my take .
@suzuteo love the list it's definitely going the right way ( may thinkiing/) remove robots Cawl add options use Mars for mixed and use wrath on corpuscsrii gett also fulguritte . Infiltrators give you tons of shots marrs deepstrike it's exttremely valuable .
Using 2 transports leave options . Don't have to get vanguard always in you might want to get you Mars corpuscari in and make a lethal combo with infiltrators that's the point of the list . If it needs flexibility.
So vs gsc eexamle you protect your corpus and kill anything with booth infiltrators ND corpus .
Same if you got ryza plasma and fulgur. You lead the other groups to threat knights etc etc build uupon the list for options heading both ways dealing with all enemies and you can with few tweaks . Then use cp stratagems to maxiimise the plan you want vs any enemy . Lucius troops are better than other options .
Keep in mind what you want to achieve with your army then take the options.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Vs
3 robots should be superb shooting vs terminators expensive etc .
Why pay 330 min for 57 shots range only when you can shoot 50 with infiltrators even if you pass only 10 mortals it's still half points . We talking about different plans but you get the idea .
Cognis Overwatch:
Use this stratagem when an AdMech unit from your army fires overwatch. Cognis weapons are fired using models ballistic skill for these attacks.
Rules Query:
If you use this stratagem then the enemy fails their charge (either by death or not enough rolled) and they have another unit going into your same unit in the same charge phase (e.g. Ironstriders) would the stratagem carry on over – because you can still fire overwatch against the new unit?
@Yoda79
I find the Robots more necessary than ever. They were the only thing keeping me in some games. They are durable and have such an amazing shooting profile, with the ability to apply mortal wounds to anything.
@The Forgemaster
Hard to say. I could see the argument for the effect only lasting for the attack and the phase. But RAW, it, Wrath of Mars, and Plasma Specialists technically last forever.
I would play it as if it only lasted for the attack though. I always assume the worst ruling.
Apparently first preorders of Combat arena arrived from Barns &Nobles .Any of our American friends have them and is willing to share stats for priest and servitor?
I am adopting a look before buying perspective, but even if he's a 20-30 point HQ, I will be happy as a clam because it gets past the Rule of Three problem that keeps us from triple Battalions.
The Forgemaster wrote: Cognis Overwatch:
Use this stratagem when an AdMech unit from your army fires overwatch. Cognis weapons are fired using models ballistic skill for these attacks.
Rules Query:
If you use this stratagem then the enemy fails their charge (either by death or not enough rolled) and they have another unit going into your same unit in the same charge phase (e.g. Ironstriders) would the stratagem carry on over – because you can still fire overwatch against the new unit?
No it is only "when you fire overwatch" (a specific instance) not during the charge phase
I expect the new guy and his servitor will follow the design philosophy for BSF - making the rules suck so that no-one complains “why do I have to buy this game I don’t want just to get this useful unit, or else I’m at a disadvantage against those who do?!” They messed up and made the kroot vaguely useful for his points but in general that’s the way BSF units have gone.
So I could see him having a weird faction or being a Datasmith-ish elite option just to avoid controversy.
Went 4-2 at TSHFT, got best AdMech, learned a lot. The advice here has been great, thanks all!
I can do a write up later but first I need sleep. Highlights: Hoplites+Duneriders did exactly what I wanted them to do, I had board control 5 of 6 games. Picking the +1 str canticle with them can be a game changer. 6 Arquebus snipers were solid in all but 1 game, maxed Headhunter in four games.
Nice! I definitely think AdMech has a lot of strong mobility options now that we have deep-striking or infiltrating Drills and Riders.
I sort of miss my Krast Crusader. Definitely made games more consistent to have a do-everything unit. He just gives up VP too easily in some matchups. (Dragoons are just more Gangbusters.)
I really like that, if eldar get that that will help me not feel like an idiot for trying to use BS4+ units when eldar exist. Yeah stygies are taking a hit but so many more armies are going to be helped by that. Well, theoretically at least
if that replaces all such effects then unless its faq'd in it might not be that big of a deal. Presumably if Admech dex v2 comes out the other dogmas would be fixed as well. Out of all the new marine ones the only one that sounds like a major stinker is the AP1 shots = AP0...well that one sounds familiar doesnt it? Now yeah if they just faq it "All abilities with this type of effect work like this one now" then yeah...Mars only now. Not even sure if i'd bother having my 2nd battalion be graia at that point.
Vineheart01 wrote: if that replaces all such effects then unless its faq'd in it might not be that big of a deal.
Presumably if Admech dex v2 comes out the other dogmas would be fixed as well. Out of all the new marine ones the only one that sounds like a major stinker is the AP1 shots = AP0...well that one sounds familiar doesnt it?
Now yeah if they just faq it "All abilities with this type of effect work like this one now" then yeah...Mars only now. Not even sure if i'd bother having my 2nd battalion be graia at that point.
I would imagine if they're taking the time to kneecap Stygies VII's trait they'd be at least passingly aware that the rest of our traits aside from Mars suck. Gives me hope that an Admech V2 codex will be much better laid out. It'd be really cool if we can make custom FW too but I won't hold my breath. If GW fixes canticles Stygies just gets free Shroudpsalm every turn and can use stuff like Benediction or Remorseless Fist, that's not too bad if they fix canticles. Hell just get rid of Litany of Electromancer and I'd be happy
Looks like GW's idea is taking a named chapter gets you 3, but you're locked in. Odds are the custom traits are just all these, but you get to pick only two to balance them out, with a couple like the Raven guard one possible taking up 2 or being unique to balance them out.
I think marines are actually going to get a good buff out of this. Marine players are the whiniest of the bunch, but I think there will be a ton of hidden gems jsut waiting to come out.
Honestly i think litany is close to being useable if they do 2 things.
1. Make it activate at the start of the fight phases
2. Make it require a roll of 6+ but add 1 for each other friendly unit with this ability within an inch of the opponent.
Basically, if i have 3 units wrapping one, i'd need a 4+ to get the mortal wounds off. AND i'd be able to have better control on the canticle, i might even pick it if im geting in a massive tarpit or if i got charged and multiple of my units are being wrapped by my opponent (genestealers in my screen for example).
Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does. But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?
I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.
That and poster-child-syndrome lol
And i agree with Litany. I actually got a good outcome with it in my first game but i dont expect that to happen ever again. Ever. The fact that it happens immediately and not in the fight phase and is strictly melee range in a mostly shooty army bugs me The use i got out of it was i had 3 vanguard squads (almost dead, but still 3 squads) around a dreadnought. Nailed it for 5 MWs lol. Never expecting that to happen again.
Vineheart01 wrote: Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does.
But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?
I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.
That and poster-child-syndrome lol
I've had a marine player telling me that Cawl was OP and shouldve been a lord of war since he brings almost the same power as Guilliman to the table......
Vineheart01 wrote: Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does. But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?
I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.
That and poster-child-syndrome lol
I've had a marine player telling me that Cawl was OP and shouldve been a lord of war since he brings almost the same power as Guilliman to the table......
i would have a hard time not laughing in his face.... There is no comparison between Cawl and Girlyman. None. Cawl does practically nothing outside his reroll aura and canticles manipulation, Girlyman is all auras in all phases and he is a beatstick on his own merit. Nevermind Cawl's size is a bit of a detriment.
Oh yeah. i dont take his opinion seriously anymore, he still tells everyone at my store how the castellan is dominating tables in competitive.
He's a good player but hes a borderling TFG, the type of player that says he plays "fluffy" lists but really hes playing lascannon spam in his salamanders because he knows hes playing against a vehicle heavy list.
Cawl's reroll ANY hit aura is strong, but comparing it to what guilliman does is basically a joke. He said that Guilliman is only strong when palyed with ultramarines, i'm not even sure that he knows Cawl is Mars-bound.
MrMoustaffa wrote: I really like that, if eldar get that that will help me not feel like an idiot for trying to use BS4+ units when eldar exist. Yeah stygies are taking a hit but so many more armies are going to be helped by that. Well, theoretically at least
Yup, this
If stygies has to get caught in the crossfire to make -3 to hit alaitoc get the dodo treatment, I’m ok with this
Sounds like my roommates friend, though in his defense he's a bit of an idiot when it comes to properly balancing a list so despite he obviously list-tailors and runs what he thinks is OP and nothing else....he usually loses lol. Still think it was hilarious he knew i was playing orks so he brought anti-horde and i plop down 14 vehicles lol...
Willing to bet he doesnt know cawl is mars only. IF cawl was universal holy crap he'd be so much stronger. Also, dont have the dex on me...is battlescribe wrong or is Cawl shootingphase only while Guilliman is all phases like all marine areas are for some stupid reason?
Vineheart01 wrote:Sounds like my roommates friend, though in his defense he's a bit of an idiot when it comes to properly balancing a list so despite he obviously list-tailors and runs what he thinks is OP and nothing else....he usually loses lol. Still think it was hilarious he knew i was playing orks so he brought anti-horde and i plop down 14 vehicles lol...
Willing to bet he doesnt know cawl is mars only. IF cawl was universal holy crap he'd be so much stronger. Also, dont have the dex on me...is battlescribe wrong or is Cawl shootingphase only while Guilliman is all phases like all marine areas are for some stupid reason?
nope, admech only gets their rerolls in the shooting phase while SM's get them for any attack (shooting, fighting and overwatch)
Spera wrote:Dogmas doesn't bother me so much, -1 from stymies was usually ribbon, this FW was chosen because of the stratagem.
What I'm more interested in are warlord traits and relics. This may be really earth shaking for us.
Stygies was the go-to for the additionnal defense it brings to the table, the strat was just a bonus to use situationnaly, having cover and -1 on all our army is super strong in a game where alpha strikes can do so much damage.
I do hope that if/when they make our Codex 2.0, the relics and warlord traits will be heavily reworked, as it is, they are mostly flavor text than actual rules.
the only relics that are actively useful are the Autocaduceus and the solar flare,
as for our warlord traits, its basically Monitor malevolus, Static psalm code, necromechanic and the servitor maniple one that are useable (not as bad as our relics but still....)
Vineheart01 wrote: Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does.
But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?
I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.
That and poster-child-syndrome lol
And i agree with Litany. I actually got a good outcome with it in my first game but i dont expect that to happen ever again. Ever. The fact that it happens immediately and not in the fight phase and is strictly melee range in a mostly shooty army bugs me
The use i got out of it was i had 3 vanguard squads (almost dead, but still 3 squads) around a dreadnought. Nailed it for 5 MWs lol. Never expecting that to happen again.
The worst part is you did it wrong. You only roll once for each enemy unit in B2B with your models. That means you could lock a dread with 10 units, and you still only get one roll to see if it triggers. So the max you can possible do is 3 wounds.
Let that sink in for a moment. I rolled it 3 times in a row my last game, against Knights. And that was after 4 kataphrons rolled a 1,1,1, and 3 for their shots after I'd dumped 3 CP into them to hit on 2's, and they only got one wound, which bounced. The salt was real.
gotta love it when you do a rule wrong and its bad even then and find out its even worse when done correctly lol.
Sounds like my ork Squigbuggy. I misread it as each of the crew has those guns, not the crew as a whole has the guns. I gave that thing literally 5x the shots its supposed to have, and it still did jack squat lol.
And..wow...yeah i'd be salty if that happened too lol...thats just disgustingly bad luck.
Suzuteo wrote: Nice! I definitely think AdMech has a lot of strong mobility options now that we have deep-striking or infiltrating Drills and Riders.
I sort of miss my Krast Crusader. Definitely made games more consistent to have a do-everything unit. He just gives up VP too easily in some matchups. (Dragoons are just more Gangbusters.)
That knight definitely gives up 4 points almost every game; I'm on the fence about replacing him. He was great against flyers if I could fish out "Lightning Fast Reactions" with an Icarus crawler, then use the knight against a different target. He did wonders against the chaos knight, of course. Having a quarter of my army invested into 1 model did wonders to keep my turns short.
Too often though, the opponent knows how to deal with Knights and they have a plan to bring it down in 1-2 turns. Tau reliably one-shot it (especially mechanized Tau), Eldar Flyer+Dark Reapers+psyker nonsense does the same. I think I'm going to keep running him until I learn how to get the most out of him and then reassess.
I'm definitely sticking to my plan of replacing Crawlers with Belleros Grators and I'm getting 2 more Dragoons (every single game I wished I had 2 more). Infiltrators are getting cut; they weren't bad, per se, but I can find a better use for the points. I played 3 of my games against Eldar and I seriously wish I had taken my second battalion as Graia instead of Stygies.
Right. We already guaranteedly give up Gangbusters (Kataphrons, Dragoons, Striders, Robots). Don't want to throw Kingslayer on top of that. But it is exactly as you said. He's a diverse shooting and fighting threat that is also very clock friendly. Every T1 shooting army can kill a Knight. They struggle a lot more against 5x Dragoons or 2x Drill+Fulgurites.
Yeah, 4x Dakkabots and 3x Grators is the strongest combo in my opinion, though I am wary of Eldar. They can be really tough if you get a bad turn 1. Thankfully, the flyer spam has gotten a bit more tame. Guess I will just have to bait out LFR and Doctrina my Grators. My last tourney, his Hemlocks got too close, and my gunline just wrecked them.
A mixed Battalion is great. I regret taking an extra Graia Enginseer instead of a Lucius Enginseer for easy Behind Enemy Lines or Old School's Linebreaker though.
I would definitely take priests in a drill over a lone Gallant.
Stygies dragoons would make your opponent spend 2 turns shooting them Instead of your gunline, but 10 ironstrider models seems like a pain to make/transport.
@Ideasweasel
I would do a Krast Crusader if you have to choose a Knight.
Just a single Drill and Priests is not that great. It's pretty easy to shoot them off the board. You need to bring 4-6 Dragoons or a second Drill and Priests.
Personally though, I think the Summer Slaughter guy had the right idea. Two Ryza Drills with 10x Vanguard with Calivers (and an Enginseer for repairs and deployment reduction) actually pack a huge punch when backed by Mortars, Crawlers, or Dakkabots. Drop one on turn two, Doctrina + Plasma Specialists, delete an Eldar flyer. Drop another on turn three, delete a Tank Commander or Discordant or Deredeo. Ryza Drills can totally demolish vehicles and the Vanguard can just camp objectives or advance and shoot at BS2. It's bonkers.
Here's the list:
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 963 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 773 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Mixed Battalion Detachment - 430
HQ - 115 1x Mars Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon
1x Lucius Tech-Priest Enginseer, Relic: The Solar Flare
Dakkabots and Grators for the firebase, screened by 3x5 Graia Rangers and 2x5 Ryza Vanguard. Two Drills with Ryza Vanguard for deep strike fun. Lucius Corpuscarii for more deep striking options; also can be held back to shoot and counter-charge. I prefer them over Infiltrators at the moment because I think S5 shooting and fighting makes for a better profile, and because I don't need them competing with the Robots for Wrath. Lucius Enginseer for more Recon, Linebreaker, and Behind Enemy Lines VP.
The Knight adds consistency to a list because it's fast, fights well, and shoots well, especially against high wound targets. So it pretty much is the most flexible 400-500 points you can spend in your army. But against our toughest matchups, it gives up 4 VP.
I actually used to run it, but forgot about it for some reason. It's a useful use of a tax HQ.
I’m glad people are all aboard the solar flare. It’s such a fun relic!
yeah, its really only because our other relics suck and that most list include a mixed detachment anyway that its useable. I'm hoping we get a code 2.0 and that they change our relics (stop with the relic axes!!)
I’m glad people are all aboard the solar flare. It’s such a fun relic!
yeah, its really only because our other relics suck and that most list include a mixed detachment anyway that its useable. I'm hoping we get a code 2.0 and that they change our relics (stop with the relic axes!!)
I disagree. Most books only have 1-3 good relics (GSC being the exception). We have the solar flare, cc mask, phosphor serpentia relic has won me games, the ryza gun, and I'm sure I'm missing one more. Overall we've done decently on relics. Especially for an early book.
I’m glad people are all aboard the solar flare. It’s such a fun relic!
yeah, its really only because our other relics suck and that most list include a mixed detachment anyway that its useable. I'm hoping we get a code 2.0 and that they change our relics (stop with the relic axes!!)
I disagree. Most books only have 1-3 good relics (GSC being the exception). We have the solar flare, cc mask, phosphor serpentia relic has won me games, the ryza gun, and I'm sure I'm missing one more. Overall we've done decently on relics. Especially for an early book.
The problem with our relics is that they want to be in a role that the rest of our army isnt designed for. Our Dominus have a reroll aura in the shooting phase, our enginseers are too frail to get into combat, only the manipulus wants to go into melee range yet we get :
Anzion's Pseudogenetor (nice with the manipulus)
Pater Cog-Tooth (only domini + enginseer can take it)
Uncreator gauntlet (only datasmith)
The red axe (only domini + enginseer can take it)
Adamantine arm
the omnissiah's hand
While the stats of these weapons aren't bad, they want to put our valuable reroll bubbles in situations where they are weak.
For the ranged weapons we have :
phosphoenix (only useable on the dominus and while its a decent weapon, its short range once again goes against what the army wants to do)
skull of elder nikola (yeah ok, this one is clearly OVERPOWERED)
weapon XCIX (a 3 shot autocannon on a dominus only isnt the worst)
I dont have much against these, they can do work. I just find that relics that "upgrade weapons" are uninteresting, i like relics that add mechanics/affect the rules directly.
The non-weapon :
Autocaduceus (this is probably the best relic in the codex in a vacuum)
eye of xi-lexum (again, its short range goes against what the army is designed to do)
Raiment of the tecnomartys (the fact that these generate additionnal attacks instead of hits is laughable, even with kastellan, you'd get only a few more hits in overwatch, the FNP is nice)
Omniscient Mask (situational as hell, it helps dragoons, which characters cant keep up with, hoplites and basic skitariis. this should really affect any infantry)
Cerebral techno-mitre (this one is just sad, and the worst part is that in some lists, this might actaully be the better pick)
So the reason i dislike our relic choices is that they clash with the gunline aspect of the army OR they have some limited subset of units that can either take them or be affected by it.
I agree that they arent worthless, they can be useful in certain situations. I just feel that they are a part of the codex that feel disconnected from the rest.
keep in mind, i am in no way advocating that admech is a pure gunline army, the problem is that most of our characters want to stay close to long-range vehicles.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright, so the new Primaris transport lets its content disembark after it moved (if it didnt advance) but hey cannot charge this turn.
Why do they get it but our transport with a front facong ramp for fast disembark doesnt ?
I’m glad people are all aboard the solar flare. It’s such a fun relic!
yeah, its really only because our other relics suck and that most list include a mixed detachment anyway that its useable. I'm hoping we get a code 2.0 and that they change our relics (stop with the relic axes!!)
I disagree. Most books only have 1-3 good relics (GSC being the exception). We have the solar flare, cc mask, phosphor serpentia relic has won me games, the ryza gun, and I'm sure I'm missing one more. Overall we've done decently on relics. Especially for an early book.
The problem with our relics is that they want to be in a role that the rest of our army isnt designed for. Our Dominus have a reroll aura in the shooting phase, our enginseers are too frail to get into combat, only the manipulus wants to go into melee range yet we get :
Anzion's Pseudogenetor (nice with the manipulus)
Pater Cog-Tooth (only domini + enginseer can take it)
Uncreator gauntlet (only datasmith)
The red axe (only domini + enginseer can take it)
Adamantine arm
the omnissiah's hand
While the stats of these weapons aren't bad, they want to put our valuable reroll bubbles in situations where they are weak.
For the ranged weapons we have :
phosphoenix (only useable on the dominus and while its a decent weapon, its short range once again goes against what the army wants to do)
skull of elder nikola (yeah ok, this one is clearly OVERPOWERED)
weapon XCIX (a 3 shot autocannon on a dominus only isnt the worst)
I dont have much against these, they can do work. I just find that relics that "upgrade weapons" are uninteresting, i like relics that add mechanics/affect the rules directly.
The non-weapon :
Autocaduceus (this is probably the best relic in the codex in a vacuum)
eye of xi-lexum (again, its short range goes against what the army is designed to do)
Raiment of the tecnomartys (the fact that these generate additionnal attacks instead of hits is laughable, even with kastellan, you'd get only a few more hits in overwatch, the FNP is nice)
Omniscient Mask (situational as hell, it helps dragoons, which characters cant keep up with, hoplites and basic skitariis. this should really affect any infantry)
Cerebral techno-mitre (this one is just sad, and the worst part is that in some lists, this might actaully be the better pick)
So the reason i dislike our relic choices is that they clash with the gunline aspect of the army OR they have some limited subset of units that can either take them or be affected by it.
I agree that they arent worthless, they can be useful in certain situations. I just feel that they are a part of the codex that feel disconnected from the rest.
keep in mind, i am in no way advocating that admech is a pure gunline army, the problem is that most of our characters want to stay close to long-range vehicles.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright, so the new Primaris transport lets its content disembark after it moved (if it didnt advance) but hey cannot charge this turn.
Why do they get it but our transport with a front facong ramp for fast disembark doesnt ?
the issue you have with relics is how you build admech mine is always moving more of a wave than a static gunline omniscient mask eye if xi and solar flare are all rediculously strong in the right build. we have a lot of units not designed to be a gunline
Posterchild syndrome strikes again.
They get all the rules other armies should get, even if they dont want it. What the heck would a marine player use that transport for?
Nothing marines can bring thats a danger in shooting has a short enough range to seriously bother.
Vineheart01 wrote: Posterchild syndrome strikes again.
They get all the rules other armies should get, even if they dont want it. What the heck would a marine player use that transport for?
Nothing marines can bring thats a danger in shooting has a short enough range to seriously bother.
Hellblasters.
Also, why arent we allowed to have options anymore since 7th..
We had buyable 4++ conversion shields/fields and static field which gave even a better invuln, but prohibited actions for one turn and blinding everyone.
the issue you have with relics is how you build admech mine is always moving more of a wave than a static gunline omniscient mask eye if xi and solar flare are all rediculously strong in the right build. we have a lot of units not designed to be a gunline
oh i never paly pure static gunline, as i said, the problem is that when a frail character with a reroll hits in the shooting phase can take a relic that is only useable in combat, there is a clear disconnect.
eye, solar flare, autocaduceus are all strong picks, im not arguing against these. I'd like to have less CC weapon relics, thats my main gripe.
How do you use the mask, since it only buffs skitarii, the only unit that truly benefits from it are the dragoons/hoplites.
Guard are far more flexible than Space Marines, thanks to their orders. Space Marines needed a boost, they just weren't very competitive. I know I feel a lot better lining across a table against Space Marines than I do against Guard.
AdMech vs. Guard is like a 60/40 matchup. Against Marines, it's 70/30; against Ultramarine Armor though, 55/45. I agree that Marines needed buffs, but they're really slathering it on now. It's a bit gross and probably an overcorrection given how strong Ultramarines actually are.
yeah, marines needed a subtle bump. This is not a subtle bump.
They are giving them practically everything other armies have, in some cases in better forms.
To me they feel like they lost their identity. Now theyre just "the army with access to everything" (note that doesnt mean everything is awesome, just have access to it)
Suzuteo wrote: AdMech vs. Guard is like a 60/40 matchup. Against Marines, it's 70/30; against Ultramarine Armor though, 55/45. I agree that Marines needed buffs, but they're really slathering it on now. It's a bit gross and probably an overcorrection given how strong Ultramarines actually are.
The main problem in the game right now is that GW has a hard time balancing some combinations of rules/units. Whats their solution? let people make their own chapter tactics out of exisintg ones, so now there is a ton of additional combinations that will be possible. Oh and in case this was too easy to balance, lets give them free Additionnal AP. I'm glad marines are getting some much needed love but i agree that at first glance, this might be a big case of overcorrection
The SM books is shaping up to be actually decent. Marines are pretty universally terrible and have been since the edition started with only weird outlier lists and gulliman keeping them relevant. Most of the changes push you away from gulli and they actually encourage you to take pure SM. I'm happy for them even if their tools seem like they are going to make them better against us.
Also money says their transport is 100+pts and it already states it only holds 6 dudes. And they're going to pay for a 4++. Hell with that. I'll keep my dumb cheap boat of a transport.
Hulksmash wrote: The SM books is shaping up to be actually decent. Marines are pretty universally terrible and have been since the edition started with only weird outlier lists and gulliman keeping them relevant. Most of the changes push you away from gulli and they actually encourage you to take pure SM. I'm happy for them even if their tools seem like they are going to make them better against us.
Also money says their transport is 100+pts and it already states it only holds 6 dudes. And they're going to pay for a 4++. Hell with that. I'll keep my dumb cheap boat of a transport.
Well put. I can't sing the praises of that stupid boat loudly enough. I do wish that it got the "Assault Vehicle" rule, but It's well costed for the amount of shenanigans it brings to the table.
I'm less annoyed with the assault rule and more annoyed that their transport capacity allows them a full squad plus character. Why on earth is ours only ten when just about every transport allows it's faction to take a squad plus a character :|
Octovol wrote: I'm less annoyed with the assault rule and more annoyed that their transport capacity allows them a full squad plus character. Why on earth is ours only ten when just about every transport allows it's faction to take a squad plus a character :|
The main "transport-centric" faction is drukhari and none of their vehicle allow for a full squad + character.
Drukhari get 1 special weapon/5 model in a unit, with min size being 5.
Venoms have a capacity of 5
Raiders have a capacity of 10
Tantalus has a capacity of 16 (but is never played because its 400pts, surprisingly tho, forgeworld got the carry capacity better than GW on that one)
If it makes you feel better, Drill lets us have 2 characters and a full squad. Too bad neither transport lets you take Kataphrons. Still, even 10x Vanguard with 3x Caliver can do a respectable amount of damage with Plasma Specialists and Doctrina; it's equivalent to 3x Ryzaphrons against most targets due to their superior BS, superior if they have any minus to hit; at minus 2 to hit, Ryzaphrons just kill themselves.
So the more Space Marine previews I see the more it seems like they will be pretty superb in murdering chaff, so maybe we should take this into consideration.
An influx of marines would also make our Dakkabots more valuable right? Lots of S6 with good ap and ignore cover should chew through marine squads, even primaris.
im basically expecting to bring more autocannon type weapons.
Even my local guys that avoid primaris are talking Aggressors now. Definitely need to up my multidamage attacks.
My meta has always been marine heavy so I'm not changing much. Liberal abuse of plasma has served me well in the past and I'd imagine it'll continue to do so, alongside some good ol robots to kill stuff with weight of fire. Marines are a lot killier but their durability is still pretty poor, they really have a glass jaw in my experience aside from the odd smash captain or space wolf negative 2 to hit shenanigans. Even when spamming stormshields they can only take so many hits before they start dropping.
It'll suck a lot more going second to them, but it's not like Primaris are suddenly good, just better. I have a feeling marine lists will continue to be the same they usually are, players avoiding troops as much as possible so they can run their favorite toys. Which means an even less durable force praying it does a serious hit early on. Granted I'm not playing top tier marine players, but for the average Joe that's been my experience.
I'm wondering what all the new tricks are going to be with the chapter specific books, strats, etc. There's probably gonna be some kooky stuff hidden in there.
My meta is mostly chaos and eldar. but im expecting smurfs to start showing up again. They were all over the place at the start of 8th. Girlyman kinda made them broken to start with as nobody could compete with that reliably with indexes. I'm probably going to have to shift to robots. What ive been doing is lots of Vanguard graia with the graia warlord trait, seeing as how the only race i dont see that working against is Tau castles and Tau literally dont exist around me its been working well. But the new marine stuff makes me think it wont work, the rate of fire im expecting exceeds that of Orks which is just wrong.
And i for one won't expect anything because by now it doesn't look like a buff, but full on rework. What will come may have little in common to Marines we used to know, especially that they will probably also change their point values. It seams that by now designers have better understanding what makes units good or bad so they definitely can change a lot now.
Rowboat nerf. Finally. Not that he's weak now. But it is necessary if the rest of the codex is to grow beyond Smurfs.
Anyhow, my previous list was... not that good.
Lessons learned:
-Failed to consider that putting half my army into deep strike means that they have an entire round to go straight for the Robots. Having a Distraction Carnifex is still important.
-Ryza and Mars are a great combo. You can pick RR1s to hit for your Canticle and still roll for Shroudpsalm for the Mars vehicles.
-The Drill is also a hilarious Distraction Carnifex. They pretty much have to spend the turn killing the Skitarii (which should be deployed into an enclosed ruin if possible) and the Drill before it runs up to vehicles and butchering them.
-Having two Ryza Drill+Vanguard is a bit redundant because only one can get roided up by stratagems.
-Corpuscarii are a lot frailer in practice than on paper. They can't take return fire at all; you have to be really sure you can gun down whatever they are up against. I am sure they are still great against T4 armies though.
-Grators are still amazing. Great at cleanup. And they don't seem nearly as scary as the other elements of the army, and they are quite mobile and durable, so nobody really focuses them, allowing their contribution to add up over time.
New list is like my list before last, only I drop two Crawlers for the Ryza Drill+Vanguard:
Spoiler:
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 963 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 190 1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord
Heavy Support - 773 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Mixed Battalion Detachment - 447
HQ - 115 1x Mars Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon
1x Lucius Tech-Priest Enginseer, Relic: The Solar Flare
Fast Attack - 340 5x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Goad
Total: 1915 points 13 CP
I have exactly enough points to take an Assassin, but I am afraid I might not have enough CP to run them on top of Robots and the Ryza Vanguard.
Suggestions? I could cut a Dragoon too. Or add one to get the full unit of 6x.
3x Mars Destroyers for stronger Robot output?
5x Mars Breachers for some extra shooting and screening? Or 6x Agripinaa in the mixed detachment for the zombie screen. Lol.
8x Mars Infiltrators? Competes with the Robots though.
10x Fulgurites? No transport to go with them though, not unless I make them Ryza.
EDIT: Can anyone tell me what their solution is for magnetizing the front half of the Grators? I put magnets in the sides of the front ramp area, but they don't hold very well...
@Suzuteo: I highly recommend proxying some Hoplites to put in that drill. Their weapon profile and their durability in melee have been useful in every game, as long as I have a way to deliver them; seriously MvP's in several games now. Adding a Dragoon seems like a great choice too, but I've only run 4 and am building up to 6, so I could be missing something. In the end, the Assassin is going to be the most versatile choice if you can afford the CP, which I think you can if you're stingy, but only practice games would tell for sure.
*edit: After consideration, taking two units of Hoplites has been essential to their success in a few games so they might not be what you're looking for.
Troop - 270 3x Kataphron Breacher - Heavy Arc Rifle, Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - Heavy Arc Rifle, Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - Heavy Arc Rifle, Arc Claw
Heavy Support - 440 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 363
HQ - 30 1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Differences here are that I use Dakkabots instead of 3x Crawlers, throw in 3x3 Breachers instead of sniper rifles, Mars Manipulus instead of Ryza Dominus to give the castle +6" range (again, because I am using Breachers and Dakkabots), and do Ryza Enginseers to reduce drops and repair the Drills. Oh, and I cut the Arc Rifles. Because I never found a situation where I would prefer 2x Arc Rifles over another body on Rangers.
Suzuteo wrote: I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?
Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?
They are hard to shift, punch hard and are excellent in boardgame. You can hide them in LoS block, and expert pressure. if your list is mainly gun line, 10 or 20 of those guys are excellent way t excerpt pressure, and not wait to score middle board objectives. If you can prevent them being shouted out, t3 in close combat actually isn't bad because you can have opportunity for more inv saves. They aren't your killer unit, but they can take punch while punching back. I never regretted taking at least one unit of them. They were catching knights charges, gene stealers and orc boys like no other.
Suzuteo wrote: I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?
Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?
They are hard to shift, punch hard and are excellent in boardgame. You can hide them in LoS block, and expert pressure. if your list is mainly gun line, 10 or 20 of those guys are excellent way t excerpt pressure, and not wait to score middle board objectives. If you can prevent them being shouted out, t3 in close combat actually isn't bad because you can have opportunity for more inv saves. They aren't your killer unit, but they can take punch while punching back. I never regretted taking at least one unit of them. They were catching knights charges, gene stealers and orc boys like no other.
I can see them taking on Genestealers and Boyz, but can they really take a Knight without being wiped? Is this the Avenger Gatling AND the Feet? Also, have you played enough with Breachers to know how they compare? My worry is that they are an Elite unit, so I would have to pay the tax still.
Suzuteo wrote: I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?
Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?
They are hard to shift, punch hard and are excellent in boardgame. You can hide them in LoS block, and expert pressure. if your list is mainly gun line, 10 or 20 of those guys are excellent way t excerpt pressure, and not wait to score middle board objectives. If you can prevent them being shouted out, t3 in close combat actually isn't bad because you can have opportunity for more inv saves. They aren't your killer unit, but they can take punch while punching back. I never regretted taking at least one unit of them. They were catching knights charges, gene stealers and orc boys like no other.
I can see them taking on Genestealers and Boyz, but can they really take a Knight without being wiped? Is this the Avenger Gatling AND the Feet? Also, have you played enough with Breachers to know how they compare? My worry is that they are an Elite unit, so I would have to pay the tax still.
No, they won't take knight alone, but they can charge it and do some wounds. If you position carefully, your opponent can't fall back over them, and they will survive close combat retaliation. Last game when we were testing new chaos knights, i shot most of my things into one rampager, and then finished him of with hoplites, while the second one was destroyed by dragons. Both dragons and hoplites ultimately died to enemy shooting, but after that game was already over because disintegrators were moping rest of his army. Don't overlook them, Between shooting, melee and mw from shields, they can net you 9-10 wounds on knight, and that isn't bad for 90 pt unit that isn't dedicated antiknight. They are cheap for what they do and counterintuitively durable. They will draw more firepower than they are worth.
Suzuteo wrote: I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?
Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?
Some quick Hoplite facts:
Hoplites do almost as much damage as Fulgurites against most targets except T3 where they do more, and Hoplites are only 9 points per model.
They have 4+/5++ against ranged which is decent but isn't enough to keep them from getting shot off the table; that's why I start them in a boat.
They have a 4++ in melee, and unmodified saving throws of 6 in melee do a MW to the attacking unit.
Their spear is also an Assault1 gun, so I can usually do some damage with them even if everything has gone sideways.
At str 6, ap -1 they are good against a variety of targets and the +1 str canticle pairs well with them doing d3 damage to vehicles.
They have the skitarii keyword and are effected by the Omniscient Mask.
I've been Stygies scout-moving a unit of 4 Dragoons and two boats full of Hoplites to create pressure right at the beginning. I try to position the Dragoons to be perceived as the bigger threat so that they take any shooting, and I have an Enginseer with Mask following right behind. Generally I have the Hoplite units supporting each other while the Dragoons go do what they do. Often, I'm staggering charges against dedicated CC units so that when Hoplites eat a counter-charge I have a unit to charge back in. Because of the MW's on 6's to save, eating counter-charges with Hoplites can be really effective with some planning. Against gunlines, I use the Dragoon-distraction to get the boats up the table and deliver the Hoplites to their doorstep. Once the Hoplites are delivered I make the Duneriders as obnoxious as possible: move blocking, shooting screens, charging anything that isn't screened, auto-exploding for a CP. No one expects the transport to advance and still shoot, or overwatch using it's ballistic skill. Even if it doesn't damage much it gets a lot of attention and the Hoplites live another turn.
For 326 points (20 Hoplites, 2 boats), it's quite a bit of utility.
Looking at the Mathhammer on the Hoplites, and they seem okay. They punch above their weight for sure, especially when combined with Vanguard. And they are fairly durable. But I still think Fulgurites are better. Might be like Breachers, and maybe I am missing something?
On that note, has anyone run non-Stygies Fulgurites or Fulgurites in Boats? How do you feel about them? Because I always imagined them in Stygies Boats or Drills for the infiltration and -1 to hit; with Acquisition At All Costs, they become digustingly hard to kill. But Mars for the +1S or RR1 in fighting is nice too.
Apparently Gravis armor marines are 3 wounds now.
Kinda bumps up the reasons to use the flat 3D gun on the grators even more.
Wasnt really planning to use that gun as i commonly have to deal with sneaky jumppacks hiding around corners, but aggressors with the new rules are fething scary looking.
I tried to get an answer to a few questions in the 40k general discussion board without luck, so i will try here if it is OK.
-Where can i find the rules for the new transport?
-I loosely remeber there was a change in the number of command points you get from the formations but i cant find where it is.
-I see a lot of reference to a drill transport (like the old epic termite), in what book can i find it?
I tried to get an answer to a few questions in the 40k general discussion board without luck, so i will try here if it is OK.
-Where can i find the rules for the new transport?
-I loosely remeber there was a change in the number of command points you get from the formations but i cant find where it is.
-I see a lot of reference to a drill transport (like the old epic termite), in what book can i find it?
Thanks in advance,
I think you can find the tank online. Check GW's website.
Big FAQ, I believe. For reference, Battalions are 5 and Brigades are 12.
Imperial Armor, the Forgeworld book. Get the one for Ad Mech.
I think you can find the tank online. Check GW's website.
Big FAQ, I believe. For reference, Battalions are 5 and Brigades are 12.
Imperial Armor, the Forgeworld book. Get the one for Ad Mech.
Thanks for the answer, I think i have looked everywhere on the GW site but i cant find any trace of datasheets the transport or anything about the CP change. Does anyone have a link?
The only official source of the rules for the dunerider is the box it comes in at the moment, same for the Manipulus. That said battlescribe has the rules in full and a 5 second search on Google should pull them right up
MrMoustaffa wrote: The only official source of the rules for the dunerider is the box it comes in at the moment, same for the Manipulus. That said battlescribe has the rules in full and a 5 second search on Google should pull them right up
So if i get a dunerider box i will have all the rules i need to use it?
MrMoustaffa wrote: The only official source of the rules for the dunerider is the box it comes in at the moment, same for the Manipulus. That said battlescribe has the rules in full and a 5 second search on Google should pull them right up
So if i get a dunerider box i will have all the rules i need to use it?
I am pretty sure Knights are just not viable going forward. Those Super Smash Captains can hit on 2s, wound on 2s, S23 (effective) AP-4 D6 or something like that. Attack 8 times, twice. You can kill two Knights in a single turn.
Ideasweasel wrote: If only we could overwatch the smash captains. That’s the real kicker
I haven't seen all the leaks but I'm pretty sure that the smash captain being referenced is the white scars on bike captain, which you could overwatch. If you're taking a knight crusader you could screen him out, too. Smashy is still a 160ish point+8CP suicide missile that can be planned for.
Yes, WS Biker Captain. I wonder what nickname they are going to settle on. Super Smash Captain is a bit bland, so perhaps Smash Khan or something?
Anyhow, your Knight can overwatch a Super Smash Captain, but he likely will have something else take it for him. And even if this is not the case, you can't kill him anyway, especially if you have a melee or hybrid Knight.
This all being said, we are one of the better positioned armies to handle Space Marines. Corpuscarii can deepstrike and do a lot of work with S5 shooting and fighting. And while other armies can fear Aggressors, I think Aggressors will fear us. We have the strongest S6 gunline there is (though Tau probably have a more durable one), and Breachers are still ridiculously resilient against bolters and flamers. They have to hit, wound on 5+, then we have to fail a 2+ save. And whereas they can only bring in 3x6 of them, we can do much larger units for comparable cost.
EDIT: Scratch that last list, this is probably safer:
Suzuteo wrote: Looking at the Mathhammer on the Hoplites, and they seem okay. They punch above their weight for sure, especially when combined with Vanguard. And they are fairly durable. But I still think Fulgurites are better. Might be like Breachers, and maybe I am missing something?
On that note, has anyone run non-Stygies Fulgurites or Fulgurites in Boats? How do you feel about them? Because I always imagined them in Stygies Boats or Drills for the infiltration and -1 to hit; with Acquisition At All Costs, they become digustingly hard to kill. But Mars for the +1S or RR1 in fighting is nice too.
Because fulgurites are better on offense where Hoplites are better on defense. If you trigger fulgurites armor you want to push them further into enemy units. Hoplites will do their job even without dealing damage, just being obstacle on the way. Its difference between rocket and landmine.
@Spera
I see. Only thing keeping me from putting them in my list, aside from not having any, is the fact that they are 90 points for an Elite choice. For the same 90 points, I can turn a Ranger into a 4x Breacher unit.
On that note, 4x Breacher looks more appearing than 10x Hoplite still. Especially given how Space Marines have a Bolter for each finger (quite literally for Aggressors) these days. I assume that I can protect them with Boats, but that is another 73 points, and they have to get out some time. Only funny thing is the mortal wounds reflect. Some units may well end up killing themselves on Hoplites. I know that I have intentionally used Robot invulnerables on Lasguns just for lulz.
Tip: Spoiler tags are in brackets [ and ] with a / before the spoiler word to "end" the spoiler. First spoiler in brackets has no slash, second one does. Hope that was clear enough. Kinda hard to type it out without accidentally triggering it lol
Suzuteo wrote: @Spera
I see. Only thing keeping me from putting them in my list, aside from not having any, is the fact that they are 90 points for an Elite choice. For the same 90 points, I can turn a Ranger into a 4x Breacher unit.
On that note, 4x Breacher looks more appearing than 10x Hoplite still. Especially given how Space Marines have a Bolter for each finger (quite literally for Aggressors) these days. I assume that I can protect them with Boats, but that is another 73 points, and they have to get out some time. Only funny thing is the mortal wounds reflect. Some units may well end up killing themselves on Hoplites. I know that I have intentionally used Robot invulnerables on Lasguns just for lulz.
I thought you always had to pick the best save your model has, only getting to choose if they're the same? Maybe that's an older edition I'll look it up in a bit when I get to the store
I thought you always had to pick the best save your model has, only getting to choose if they're the same? Maybe that's an older edition I'll look it up in a bit when I get to the store
You can chose whatever model you want, however once that model takes a wound all future wounds must also be assigned to it until it is dead
he meant if a model has multiple saves, i.e. both armor and invul, is one is better he must use that one.
I dont think that rule exists in 8th, least i dont remember seeing it. edit: just looked, it says the opposite actually. You may chose to use the normal save or its invulnerable save, but not both.
So you can use the robots invul save even if the AP doesnt get through to it. Question is is it worth the extra risk to taking damage to get mortals thrown back.
Vineheart01 wrote: he meant if a model has multiple saves, i.e. both armor and invul, is one is better he must use that one.
I dont think that rule exists in 8th, least i dont remember seeing it.
edit: just looked, it says the opposite actually. You may chose to use the normal save or its invulnerable save, but not both.
So you can use the robots invul save even if the AP doesnt get through to it. Question is is it worth the extra risk to taking damage to get mortals thrown back.
I do that if they shot almost all scary guns and I run no risk of losing the whole robot, and a couple wounds are easily repaired.
Suzuteo wrote: @Spera
I see. Only thing keeping me from putting them in my list, aside from not having any, is the fact that they are 90 points for an Elite choice. For the same 90 points, I can turn a Ranger into a 4x Breacher unit.
On that note, 4x Breacher looks more appearing than 10x Hoplite still. Especially given how Space Marines have a Bolter for each finger (quite literally for Aggressors) these days. I assume that I can protect them with Boats, but that is another 73 points, and they have to get out some time. Only funny thing is the mortal wounds reflect. Some units may well end up killing themselves on Hoplites. I know that I have intentionally used Robot invulnerables on Lasguns just for lulz.
I can see that. 'm myself are not using breachers, so that may be usually why i take Hoplites. I keep my battalions cheep so I usually have points to spend elsewhere. If you happen to try lists with skitari ac your battalion core, try hoplites, even just for fun and practice. Its always good to check units especially in 8ed when we have patches every had year and bad units may suddenly become good and vice versa.
@Ideasweasel
Wow! You need six Skorpius kits for that. Gotta play that Moneyhammer. (Though I am one to talk; I own 10 Striders.)
But it does look fun. Fully mechanized AdMech. Turn one infiltrate 30 Plasma Vanguard in Boats up the board. Support them with tank fire. Personally, I think Ryza Drills, Lucius Corpuscarii, or Mars Infiltrators are better, but that's just me. Glad we have so many mobile options now though.
@Vineheart01
Technically, saves are done one-by-one, so just roll remaining wounds minus one. You trade 2/6 additional chance to be damaged for a 1/6 chance to kill a Guardsman each dice, and you can repair it. So unless the game is particularly close, why not?
Yeah i know thats technically true, i tend to avoid that sort of die rolling play because it seriously takes forever.
I actually have to do that with graia ruststalkers and that was annoying the crap out of me lol. Since theres a separate roll if the model dies and theres multiwounds, cant just bulk roll
So as it seems like marines get deadlier, is that likely to impact what <forgeworlds> people are taking? i.e. is it still better to stick to Mars & Cawl, or go for Stygies etc. for the added protection vs. marines firepower.
The Forgemaster wrote: So as it seems like marines get deadlier, is that likely to impact what <forgeworlds> people are taking? i.e. is it still better to stick to Mars & Cawl, or go for Stygies etc. for the added protection vs. marines firepower.
until it gets a similar treatment to ravenguard, i'll probably still play stygies. Marines are still going to be a mostly shooty army and i value the -1 to hit on my big tanks
Mars and Ryza for damage output. Maybe solo units of Lucius or Stygies.
I have yet to see Stygies-majority lists pull a tourney placing. I think they struggle against gatekeepers like Eldar flyers and Ghostkeels. Reroll all and stratagems to buff shooting are where it is at.
Well, it wasn't a shoe-in. Breachers themselves have to hit and wound the Knights, and enough S6 shooting in return can clear a lot of Breachers. Which is why the Krast Crusader is there. At BAO, I ran a similar combination, except I brought 11 less Breachers and 4x Dakkabots. Oh, and Las Striders, though in retrospect, Autocannons may have performed just as well.
The one thing that is interesting is how many snipers she brought. I would have thought getting some deep strike options would be better. But I guess she was worried about some sort of characters.
This all being said, the core weakness that I have found in these Breacher spam lists is the Triptides matchup. They are T7, shoot S6, are best for deleting big units, and battlesuits aren't vehicles for some reason. SMS are also S5.
EDIT: Interesting point. Bethany purportedly used Acquisition 3 times in a row on the same Breacher unit to make it 2++ with +3 attacks. This has always been a rules gray area, but RAW, it is allowed because end of turn is not a phase. Lol...
EDIT: Interesting point. Bethany purportedly used Acquisition 3 times in a row on the same Breacher unit to make it 2++ with +3 attacks. This has always been a rules gray area, but RAW, it is allowed because end of turn is not a phase. Lol...
That is something I never thought about, given the usual restrictions on strat playing you have to play different named ones to stack effects and they usually apply for just that phase, never know when tactic with acquisition might come in handy if it gets past the TO of course haha
Ideasweasel wrote: @suzuteo 3x acquisition is pretty naughty that can’t be allowed surely lol
RAW it is legal since there are 6 phases in the game : Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight and Morale. The "end of turn" isnt one so the restriction on stratagem spam doesn't apply.
Also, thats a lot of command point gone in whot shot.
I guess she really needed to acquire that objective at any cost.
Ideasweasel wrote: @suzuteo 3x acquisition is pretty naughty that can’t be allowed surely lol
RAW it is legal since there are 6 phases in the game : Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight and Morale. The "end of turn" isnt one so the restriction on stratagem spam doesn't apply.
Also, thats a lot of command point gone in whot shot.
I guess she really needed to acquire that objective at any cost.
Yeah, but kinda opens few possibilities. Now I'm thinking of buffing taser infiltrators for lulz. 5 attacks per piece if you menage to take something hostage can be hilarious.
The one thing that is interesting is how many snipers she brought. I would have thought getting some deep strike options would be better. But I guess she was worried about some sort of characters.
Poxwalker spam plus 1ksons? Thats what I bring against them.
@Ideasweasel, VladimirHerzog RAW, it's allowed. Stratagems actually have no per unit restriction; the thing that limits this is the number of times they can be used.
Though really, she doesn't even need the 5++ invulnerable save. They come 2+/6++ with Shroudpsalm. Use once for every AP on the incoming S6+ weapon. Lol.
@Spera Yeah, getting rid of the characters that buff Poxwalkers really slows them down.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @the_Grak So I stand by my point that the Hoplites are a bit meh in their Mathhammer. But I realized something that makes them incredibly good, but which I always thought before was a weakness: THEY HAVE NO FORGE WORLD.
This means that I can have a Ryza Drill and a Mars or Stygies VIII Skorpius, and I can still load my Hoplites into either one of them. This really improves my flexibility during deployment. And in terms of list construction, it frees up taxes.
Here is an example list that I was tinkering with:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1210 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
Maybe it's me being a total nerd, but I find this is a beautiful list in its rules efficiency. Every last unit is useful.
Big scary Cawlstar backed by two Grators; Manipulus to boost the range. Big scary Dragoon bomb to act as a Distraction Carnifex
3x5 Rangers as tax and screeners. Hoplites with EDT for Doctrina. Two Graia Rangers for 48" anti-Psyker bubbles.
Lucius Enginseer can deep strike independently to grab objectives, Behind Enemy Lines, Linebreaker, Recon, etc.
Ryza Drill + VG + Enginseer can be dropped anywhere on round two.
Pick the RR1s to hit Canticle for the Ryza VG and the Hoplites. Mars units still get their Shroudpsalm on the second dice. This includes the Boat, which also gets Manipulus movement buffs while carrying Hoplites or 2x5 Rangers.
Oh, and another interesting note: You can give Hoplites Acquisition twice for 2++ in fighting, plus +2 attacks.
@Suzuteo: I had the same thought when I was toying with the idea of adding a drill. Also, I almost used Aquisition like that in my last game at TSHFT but it's so damn expensive. If I had, it would have scored me 2 points, though.
I would just use some extra Skitarii to proxy Hoplites in a practice game, you may be pleasently surprised. A thing to note, I don't think they would be any good if they aren't starting in a transport.
the_Grak wrote: @Suzuteo: I had the same thought when I was toying with the idea of adding a drill. Also, I almost used Aquisition like that in my last game at TSHFT but it's so damn expensive. If I had, it would have scored me 2 points, though.
I would just use some extra Skitarii to proxy Hoplites in a practice game, you may be pleasently surprised. A thing to note, I don't think they would be any good if they aren't starting in a transport.
Absolutely. They are either going to be in the Dunerider, Drill, or hiding inside a magic bunker for sure.
I LL not write reports about etc since it was extreme terrain . More than we prracttised more than we knew it would have more than 6/8 tables almost completely blos.
That said besides obvious 20-0 vs knights where I even got seiiizeed once as well rest of my games we decide to play me as punching bag to remove gsc from enemy lists and lost all badly.
So the new tank is a must have mobility extremely important and options as well?
A highlight would be my win in solo vs eldar that I did extreme things . But rest was not good. Greece finished 15 and was a bit worse than we wanted but still best place so far . Giving us hope for the future . We had extreme bad luck in most games as a team and we could use some next time .
All in all we had a blast it was suuperb experience I recommend you all go and experience if even if only singles . Great event great people friendly games .
As for ad mech I loved my ryza destroyers rest didn't perform especially robots did actually nothing . One game rbots exploded twice best usage they had in extreme terrain . Snipers love them .
I'm already planning better for the upcoming events leading to 15-17 wtc iin November . So let's talk about new lists and metaaaa.
the_Grak wrote: @Suzuteo: I had the same thought when I was toying with the idea of adding a drill. Also, I almost used Aquisition like that in my last game at TSHFT but it's so damn expensive. If I had, it would have scored me 2 points, though.
I would just use some extra Skitarii to proxy Hoplites in a practice game, you may be pleasently surprised. A thing to note, I don't think they would be any good if they aren't starting in a transport.
They can work out of a transport particularly in a ruin on an objective or where they can get in position to screen. They are very resistant to melee charges.
U02dah4 wrote: They can work out of a transport particularly in a ruin on an objective or where they can get in position to screen. They are very resistant to melee charges.
No arguments here. They have screened out boyz and bloodletters alike. To clarify, I would never put Hoplites in a list without also including a transport that is almost exclusively used by them.
Adding a boat is a very effective force multiplier that takes the unit from decent to great and the combo costs the same as just 10 fulgurites.
Fulgurites in a drill are the best, but Hoplites in a boat are still great and cost just over half as much.
How about keeping 12 Hoplites in a Drill? Going to be honest, I don't think I have it in me to buy another two Duneriders, and I own these Drills already, which have proven quite good. You can deep strike them, drop them in front of your line as LOS blockers, and they can kill vehicles that get too close.
If you're going that route, why not put an Enginseer with the Omniscient Mask in the drill too? Combine that with the +1 str canticle and you've got an anti-armor wrecking-ball.
It's an interesting idea. But very expensive pointswise. I agree and think Boats are the way to go. The only reason why you want the Drill is to do a deep strike with shooting, and the Hoplite for the most part is going to be moving around rather than dropping in like Vanguard or Corpuscarii.
Absolutely. The two key weapon strength numbers are 6 and 8 for us. Dakkabots and Plasmaphrons are like peanut butter and jelly. It's just really pricey to bring 4x and 6-9x.
@yoda, you mentioned knights. Did you find this really easy as a match up? I’ve not played against knights using my Admech but we certainly have the tools to drop them
So I was wondering what everyone thinks of 4x Dakkabots vs. 3x Crawlers and 8x Infiltrators.
4x Dakkabots (440)
+Massive damage output; strong against everything
+Tough (T7, 4++, W6)
+Can move and shoot before being rooted
=36" range; needs Manipulus in certain matchups
-BS4; needs Cawl
-Need dice app or it will take FOREVER
-Has to be rooted to maximize output
-Once rooted, vulnerable to melee
-CP hungry
OR
3x Icarus Crawler (336)
+Strong anti-air
+48" range
+Weapons good against a variety of targets
+Very tough (T7, 5++ RR1, W11)
+Can move and shoot
-BS4 against ground; needs Cawl
-Can't kill a Knight or non-flying tank
-Unfriendly for clocked games
8x Infiltrators (144)
+Strong anti-infantry
+BS3 that can get +1 to hit
+Deep strike
+Decent counter-charger if you hide them
-Very fragile
-Can't kill a Knight or tank
Basically, my dilemma is between the knockout power of Dakkabots versus the efficiency and durability of Crawlers plus a deep strike tool that can use Wrath of Mars.
Suzuteo wrote: So I was wondering what everyone thinks of 4x Dakkabots vs. 3x Crawlers and 8x Infiltrators.
3x Icarus Crawler (336)
+Strong anti-air
+48" range
+Weapons good against a variety of targets
+Very tough (T7, 5++ RR1, W11)
+Can move and shoot
-BS4 against ground; needs Cawl
-Can't kill a Knight or non-flying tank
-Unfriendly for clocked games
8x Infiltrators (144)
+Strong anti-infantry
+BS3 that can get +1 to hit
+Deep strike
+Decent counter-charger if you hide them
-Very fragile
-Can't kill a Knight or tank
Basically, my dilemma is between the knockout power of Dakkabots versus the efficiency and durability of Crawlers plus a deep strike tool that can use Wrath of Mars.
I'm a massive fan of the crawlers, they just take so much to bring down went you've say Cawl healing them up and the invun works in melee which is nice just in case they get caught, while they might not bring a knight down people tend to get distracted and focus on them once they see them steadily strip wounds off every turn and pair with some Lasstriders. What to do mean by Unfriendly for clocked games?
eh its closer to 100pts after adding things to it. Its base cost is 75, not its end price.
Its still surprisingly cheap. Though not as surprisingly cheap as that stupid "not a dread battle suit" which is only 5-10pts more than a robot.
knights are my favorite matchup and usually end up 20-0
Same goes for renegades etc etc even talos even Bullgreens.
The plasma Ryza specialist just kill em all if you got 9 ryzaprhons.
the problem
a) the investment you need to do both in points and cp.
b) ruin dakkaboits but still take them so 330 minimum average spend point for ryza bots.
c) Cp intensive
d) list specific.
But trust me when i say 9 ryza plasma destroyers kill anything you point at them. how will you do it efectively i dont know beyond knights.
And tbh i v tried yesterday also 10 plasma vanguards they trully rock.
As for suzuteo .This exactly what i have done .
Added the new tanks 2 onagers and infiltrators. So far they are better than Robots.
My last list really struggled against Knights at GKO. But to be fair, I misplayed the beginning and lost my Dragoons right off the bat. Very bad.
In any case, future lists are going to use Drills and Plasma Calivers.
@Yoda79
My issue is that Destroyer lists pretty much auto-lose to Triptides. I experienced it myself in playtesting, and I talked to the guy who was Top 4 in Masters, and even he said his worst matchup was Tau, both the Triptides and Tripkeel lists. You cannot chew through 30 Shield Drones in one round of shooting, and Tau are masters of focusing down one single unit at a time.
Yeah, so maybe it is me and my weird local meta, but I rely a lot on the Robots because Knights and Tau are the most popular armies in my area. Icarus Crawlers are great against Eldar, Tau, and Custodes, but they can't fill the anti-tank role. That is why I bring Las Striders instead.
I wonder if I can get away with Las Striders and Grators... hm... EDIT: Probably not. Won't have a good way to handle hordes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I had an amusing thought and went with it. I realized that the Master's City list never had access to Grators. What if we introduced them in order to help remove Shield Drones?
Turns out that the Mathhammer doesn't work out. Shield Drones are actually quite hard a nut to crack. 3x Grators kill around 4 on average dice?
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Yesterday i played vs pure BA list.... It's was worst game in last 2 months... 1 smash cpt killed .... crusader... cawl... 4 dakka robots.... onnager...
How we can hold lists who charge turn 1 or have overwatch ignore?
ImperialDwarf wrote: Yesterday i played vs pure BA list.... It's was worst game in last 2 months... 1 smash cpt killed .... crusader... cawl... 4 dakka robots.... onnager...
How we can hold lists who charge turn 1 or have overwatch ignore?
ImperialDwarf wrote: Yesterday i played vs pure BA list.... It's was worst game in last 2 months... 1 smash cpt killed .... crusader... cawl... 4 dakka robots.... onnager...
How we can hold lists who charge turn 1 or have overwatch ignore?
Cheap screening, breachers, Duneriders
10 breachers was killed turn 1. How cheap screen help vs jump packs?
Against BA, you have to turtle in a corner and survive turn one. Have your screen and countercharger absorb the blow; if you go first, you have a huge advantage in Acquisition at all Costs. Then absolutely murder 1000 points worth of models turn two; BA are not known for being durable on a point by point basis. Regain control of the board after this.
EDIT: Another key tactic: Place embarked transports in front of your gunline; at least 1" and a hair away. (Make sure your opponent is playing with 32mm Space Marines.) This way, after they kill your transport, the following occurs:
1) Roll for explosion
2) Emergency disembark your troops
3) Remove transport
4) Enemy consolidates into your disembarked troops, but cannot fight them because they did not declare a charge against them
Suzuteo wrote: Another key tactic: Place embarked transports in front of your gunline; at least 1" and a hair away. (Make sure your opponent is playing with 32mm Space Marines.) This way, after they kill your transport, the following occurs:
1) Roll for explosion
2) Emergency disembark your troops
3) Remove transport
4) Enemy consolidates into your disembarked troops, but cannot fight them because they did not declare a charge against them
I will try after i get dunerider box. 2-3 weeks until they delivered to Russia :(
I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.
0XFallen wrote: I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.
I drilled holes into the back of all of the primary guns and put magnets in them. I then took a magnet and attached it to a sprue bit. I filled in a portion of the Destroyer's weapon "box" with green stuff. I then pushed the magnet to the appropriate depth with the gun while it is magnetically attached to the sprue bit. (Obviously, don't try to detach the gun bit until the green stuff dries.)
I magnetized the left arm joint.
Here is a photo of my Kataphron, without any guns and posed so you can see the magnets:
Not sure if there is a better way, but this lets me mounted all of the guns no problem.
0XFallen wrote: I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.
I drilled holes into the back of all of the primary guns and put magnets in them. I then took a magnet and attached it to a sprue bit. I filled in a portion of the Destroyer's weapon "box" with green stuff. I then pushed the magnet to the appropriate depth with the gun while it is magnetically attached to the sprue bit. (Obviously, don't try to detach the gun bit until the green stuff dries.)
I magnetized the left arm joint.
Here is a photo of my Kataphron, without any guns and posed so you can see the magnets:
Not sure if there is a better way, but this lets me mounted all of the guns no problem.
Ty, I will try this.
Can you also switch between breacher and destroyer weapons with this? Did you use the Big destroyers Weapon case for the breachers too?
0XFallen wrote: I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.
Just back from an ITC doubles tournament,
Beth Taylor Current Admech front runner was there and she has convinced me to pick up a few boxes. Was quite interesting to hear how her list works.
Shame the Admech range isn’t the best value for money. I’m also a massive fan of the drills. Man they can shred knights when they get in
0XFallen wrote: I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.
Shame the Admech range isn’t the best value for money.
I just had this conversation yesterday with a buddy. I realized that Admech in general is one of the worst dollar to points ration armies in the game. And that was before our transports and new tanks. When I think of how much pretty much all of my other armies cost it blows me away how much retail cost is currently on the table when I play 2k. It's well over .50 a point.
Oh well. Getting ready for nova currently. Gonna see if I can nab that top pure Admech spot till LVO. The L's at Nova have made me abandon my robots in favor of more mobility. So we'll see how it goes.
I used 5x1mm magnets on the shoulders and put 2x1mm magnets on the arms/weapons. I built all the plasma arms so I can't switch to grav but it only takes a second to switch from Breacher to Destroyer.
I like my robots but find they don’t work, I get too used to castling up and then I lack the board control. It’s like they encourage that playstyle out of me and it’s costly.
Generally my robots do major work for me. But with the two giant L's at nova getting a good firing spot for them is hard. So I went to a fully on the move army that can shift around the large LoS blockers.
0XFallen wrote: Ty, I will try this.
Can you also switch between breacher and destroyer weapons with this? Did you use the Big destroyers Weapon case for the breachers too?
Yeah. I cut off a bit of the Heavy Arc Rifle, and It goes in fine. There's some blank space around it, but it looks natural.
0XFallen wrote: I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.
Just back from an ITC doubles tournament,
Beth Taylor Current Admech front runner was there and she has convinced me to pick up a few boxes. Was quite interesting to hear how her list works.
Shame the Admech range isn’t the best value for money. I’m also a massive fan of the drills. Man they can shred knights when they get in
I'm curious, how did she explain it? It's basically big blobs of highly efficient, durable Kataphrons with Cawl rerolls backed by anti-Titan Krast Crusader, anti-flyer/infantry Auto Striders, and anti-character snipers, right? Park them ontop of objectives and hold your way to victory?
Hulksmash wrote: I can't quite give up my Cawl yet so I'm using a pure mars list below split into 2 battalions;
Generally my robots do major work for me. But with the two giant L's at nova getting a good firing spot for them is hard. So I went to a fully on the move army that can shift around the large LoS blockers.
What sorts of L's are you talking about? Are they really large enough to block out more than two objectives? (I find that as long as Robots control two objectives in addition to the one in your deployment on a five objective map, they just about force your opponent to come out to fight.) I think maybe in the future, I will have to switch to 3x Crawlers or 4x Las Strider (or 5x Auto Strider) out of practical necessity. But man do I hate the thought, Robots good at practically everything.
Those are a lot of transports. No wonder your cost per point is so high. I personally am doing that Mars + Ryza/Lucius setup. S6 gunline with deep-striking S8 shooting.
Spearhead Detachment keyword Adeptus Mechanicus <STYGIES VIII> +1CP
HQ1: Tech-Priest Enginseer (30) =30pts
Fast Attack1: Sydonian Dragoons 4 Sydonian dragoons (4x59pts) 4 Taser Lance (4x9pts) =272pts
Heavy1: Skorpius Disintegrator (85) Belleros Energy Cannon (20) Cognis Heavy Stubber (3x2) =111pts
Heavy2: Skorpius Disintegrator (85) Belleros Energy Cannon (20) Cognis Heavy Stubber (3x2) =111pts
Heavy3: Skorpius Disintegrator (85) Belleros Energy Cannon (20) Cognis Heavy Stubber (3x2) =111pts
Heavy4: Onager Dunecrawler (70) Neutron Laser (45) Cognis Heavy Stubber (2x2) Broad spectrum data tether =119pts
Heavy5: Onager Dunecrawler (70) Neutron Laser (45) Cognis Heavy Stubber (2x2) Broad spectrum data tether =119pts
Heavy6: Onager Dunecrawler (70) Neutron Laser (45) Cognis Heavy Stubber (2x2) Broad spectrum data tether =119pts
Detachment Total 992pts
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment Imperial Knights <Freeblade> -1CP
LoW1: Knight Crusader (285) + Thermal Cannon (76) + Avenger gatling cannon (75) + Heavy Stubber (2) + Heavy Flamer (14) + Ironstorm Missile Launcher (16) , <Questor Mechanicus>Fixed Qualities - Peerless Warrior Fixed Burdens -Haunted by Failure, Weary Machine Spirit Heirloom of the house -1CP Endless Fury = (468pts) (Warlord trait used every game was Ion Bulwark but it wasn't fixed)
Detachment Total 468pts
Army Total 1748pts
Congratulations! 1750 points? How many players at this tourney?
This is a neat list. Dragoons and a Crusader plus tanks. Light on CP, but if you are taking Ion Bulwark, you pretty much only are spending on Doctrina.
Questions:
1) How do you get along with so few infantry?
2) How are the Hoplites without a transport?
3) And why not Krast Crusader?
Generally my robots do major work for me. But with the two giant L's at nova getting a good firing spot for them is hard. So I went to a fully on the move army that can shift around the large LoS blockers.
What sorts of L's are you talking about? Are they really large enough to block out more than two objectives? (I find that as long as Robots control two objectives in addition to the one in your deployment on a five objective map, they just about force your opponent to come out to fight.) I think maybe in the future, I will have to switch to 3x Crawlers or 4x Las Strider (or 5x Auto Strider) out of practical necessity. But man do I hate the thought, Robots good at practically everything.
Those are a lot of transports. No wonder your cost per point is so high. I personally am doing that Mars + Ryza/Lucius setup. S6 gunline with deep-striking S8 shooting.
Essentially take a look at the nova mission packet. They have a layout there that's the same for every table but it's 2 12"x12" bases that have 8"+ high walls on 2 of the 4 sides. They're deployed stradling the 4' table edge midline with a foot between them. Objectives are deployed in various ways but what it means is that outside of hammer and anvil there is a lot of LoS that's impaired. So robots tend to be bad in the Nova format.
Oh damn... yeah, that is not good for Kastelans. If they force you to turtle in anything but H&A, they just won't be contributing in rounds 3-6 probably.
Have you considered Striders instead of Crawlers? They are less durable, but they are faster and pack a bigger punch (both of them).
Also, how about sniper rifles? Space Marines and Chaos both rely a lot on characters now.
Suzuteo wrote: Congratulations! 1750 points? How many players at this tourney?
This is a neat list. Dragoons and a Crusader plus tanks. Light on CP, but if you are taking Ion Bulwark, you pretty much only are spending on Doctrina.
Questions:
1) How do you get along with so few infantry?
2) How are the Hoplites without a transport?
3) And why not Krast Crusader?
Just a 30 player I was mostly useing it as a test for a major im going to next month. (Although thats 2000 so im adding 2 kastellan robots and a couple of hoplites)
1) The vanguards mostly sat on backfield objectives out of los i didnt feel i needed more infantry for that but I would sacrifice a disintegrators or 2 as a screen in some games in others the hoplites were enough. (Given the knight and dragoons would block my opponents advance)
2) hoplites were brilliant in R1 they screened a charge from the chaos version of a knight gallant and 5 MW it. Vs aeldari on dawn of war i baited their bikes into chargeing my crawlers to tie them up then counter charged the hoplites from a ruin next door. Their weakest game was vs a custodes/guard 3 telemon, orion and -1to hit banner list that sat far back but even there they managed to hold a mid table objective long enough to get me an extra pt. Being infantry light my list needed a blocker unit.
3) I debated the krast crusader but decided being CP light I wanted Ion bulwark vs most opponents. Having play tested i consistently defeat 3 knights without krast so I felt adding krast was win more in those games. While the freeblade bonus combined with endless fury had the potential to help more in the more difficult games and if your not taking the krast relic warlord trait then your not losing much by making it a freeblade
Anyone tried converting the new Primaris Impulsor into a Dunerider? It has all the heavy stubbers and stuff, maybe put the torpedo prow bit on the front, and the turret on top?
As far as hover vehicles go I really would like some method of hovering other than 20th century hovercraft.
So in the release article for the new blackstone fortress expansion, theres a really short introduction for the characters and our tech priest got this pretty vague line :
The Tech-Priest, Daedalosus, can designate a hostile, making it easier for the party to make successful attacks against them
so he may have a built-in eye of xi-lexum -ish ability?
Suzuteo wrote: Oh damn... yeah, that is not good for Kastelans. If they force you to turtle in anything but H&A, they just won't be contributing in rounds 3-6 probably.
Have you considered Striders instead of Crawlers? They are less durable, but they are faster and pack a bigger punch (both of them).
Also, how about sniper rifles? Space Marines and Chaos both rely a lot on characters now.
Honestly, snipers are a gamble with the tables and dense terrain meta IMO. They have range, but a total immobility kills their performance for me each time I try to field them. Ever since Stygies Infiltration nerf I had maybe 2 or 3 matches where having snipers was actually beneficial - each other time I tried to field them they were simply outLoSed.
Well, when I did use them, I would basically advance them if they had nothing to shoot. The key though is that they make it harder for opponents to move characters around the board.
But yeah, unless you have a tall building in your deployment, it's harder to justify them. A Vindicare might be better because they are harder to kill.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another concept list. Hammer and anvil style, as before. Big static firebase that wants to camp on objectives combined with three different deep striking options (anti-T3, anti-T4, anti-T7). A lot less concerned about Knights, if my friends' Space Marine lists are anything to go by. It's so easy to kill a Knight now...
Heavy Support - 336 1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 363
HQ - 30 1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Mixed Battalion Detachment - 522
HQ - 60 1x Lucius Tech-Priest Enginseer - Relic: The Solar Flare
1x Ryza Tech-Priest Enginseer
VladimirHerzog wrote: So in the release article for the new blackstone fortress expansion, theres a really short introduction for the characters and our tech priest got this pretty vague line :
The Tech-Priest, Daedalosus, can designate a hostile, making it easier for the party to make successful attacks against them
so he may have a built-in eye of xi-lexum -ish ability?
Pretty sure he just has an omnispex. That's what it reminds me of.
ph34r wrote: Anyone tried converting the new Primaris Impulsor into a Dunerider? It has all the heavy stubbers and stuff, maybe put the torpedo prow bit on the front, and the turret on top?
As far as hover vehicles go I really would like some method of hovering other than 20th century hovercraft.
I was actually thinking about converting Repulsors, since they are A LOT cheaper. I actually love the hovercraft as transports. But not as much as tanks.
My only concern is that the Repulsors seem much wider than the Grators. The height of the hull without the flying base and the length (counting the Grator fins) is comparable.
Anyone got a side-by-side comparison by any chance?
But yeah, if Impulsors come down to the same price point, I would consider it. Might just move the turret over.
ph34r wrote: Anyone tried converting the new Primaris Impulsor into a Dunerider? It has all the heavy stubbers and stuff, maybe put the torpedo prow bit on the front, and the turret on top?
As far as hover vehicles go I really would like some method of hovering other than 20th century hovercraft.
I was actually thinking about converting Repulsors, since they are A LOT cheaper. I actually love the hovercraft as transports. But not as much as tanks.
My only concern is that the Repulsors seem much wider than the Grators. The height of the hull without the flying base and the length (counting the Grator fins) is comparable.
Anyone got a side-by-side comparison by any chance?
But yeah, if Impulsors come down to the same price point, I would consider it. Might just move the turret over.
wait, how are repulsors cheaper than skorpi? also, the repulsor has a much bigger footpring on the battlefield sp converting while keeping the general size correct might be hard
VladimirHerzog wrote: wait, how are repulsors cheaper than skorpi? also, the repulsor has a much bigger footpring on the battlefield sp converting while keeping the general size correct might be hard
They come up on eBay for really cheap once and awhile. Not sure why. And you're right. They're almost the size of a Land Raider. Much wider and blockier in silhouette. Guess I should just wait for the Impulsor.
Is it a dual kit?
GW seems to have a hardon for overpricing dual kits, even if very little is different between the two options.
*glares at the Tau Breacher box*
Alright. so in the most recent escalation article, were given this description of tech priest Daedalosus.
You are technoarcheologist Daedalosus. They say that one man’s archeotrash is another man’s archeotreasure, and that’s certainly true for you. Who knows what secrets you’ll uncover in the Blackstone Fortress?
In the questions before, one associated with him mentions the use of an omniscan. so possible new wargear?
Yeah, could be cool. The tech-priest manipulus was cool, but it seems like people don't consider him worth the points often?
I think I will convert some dune riders out of the sector mechanicus incinerator/furnace bit. Something along the lines of Rey from the new Star Wars' hoverbike, with the levitation discs of the Matrix human aircraft.
ph34r wrote: Yeah, could be cool. The tech-priest manipulus was cool, but it seems like people don't consider him worth the points often?
I think I will convert some dune riders out of the sector mechanicus incinerator/furnace bit. Something along the lines of Rey from the new Star Wars' hoverbike, with the levitation discs of the Matrix human aircraft.
The manipulus is one of the things that made admech so much better, i'm pretty sure most people on here feel like he is worth his points, hes such a good force multiplier.
A conversion like that could be cool, make sure to post pictures if you end up doing it!
@VladimirHerzog
I actually remember having to argue with people for including him. A lot of people were of the opinion that he is not worth the points, but I thought that he was unique value. Every list I posted since he released has him just about. I would rather have him than a Dominus in a non-Mars list even.
Definitely would rather a Manipulus over additional Dominius.
That +1 move + charge + advance alone is phenomenal but dunno how many times ive had my guns in range purely because of the boosted range. And i dont have many games under my belt with admech.
Suzuteo wrote:@VladimirHerzog
I actually remember having to argue with people for including him. A lot of people were of the opinion that he is not worth the points, but I thought that he was unique value. Every list I posted since he released has him just about. I would rather have him than a Dominus in a non-Mars list even.
Oh, on release for sure people were clamoring for a pts drop, i was speaking in how his presence was these days
Vineheart01 wrote:Definitely would rather a Manipulus over additional Dominius.
That +1 move + charge + advance alone is phenomenal but dunno how many times ive had my guns in range purely because of the boosted range. And i dont have many games under my belt with admech.
yeah, before we got the dunerider, the manipulus is how i made my LGS fear the fulgurite alpha strike, being able to threathen a turn one charge is a super strong ability, and you can always go back to being a range buffer for your tanks later in the game.
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Mixed Battalion Detachment - 382
HQ - 60 1x Lucius Tech-Priest Enginseer - Relic: The Solar Flare
1x Ryza Tech-Priest Enginseer
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 523
Lord of War - 523 1x Knight Crusader - Avenger Gatling Cannon, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon, Stormspear Rocket Pod, Heavy Flamer, 2x Heavy Stubber, Warlord (-1 CP), Relic (-1 CP)
Total: 1995 points 11 CP
A Knight makes the list super well-rounded; it's a fast and durable DC that offers really strong anti-W10/Titan as well as serving as a melee threat.
It also has a huge advantage in cutting down clock time.
Thing is, it has to be protected or kept really far back to avoid going splat on turn one. In which case, it gives up Kingslayer. Breachers do a good job of this. But then I find myself wondering if it's worth it to invest so much in force multipliers if the job of the gunline is to keep the Knight alive. All of those deep-striking elements likely won't benefit from the force multipliers at all. But cutting them makes this list too defensive.
Which probably leads me to a list like U02dah4's. A Stygies Battalion with Dragoons, tanks, and a Knight.
Alternatively, I can drop the Knight for double Drill combos. Decisions, decisions.
I'm not the best player here but I've never found myself needing the range boost on my units through the Manipulus. Every game all I ever use is the movement buff. I guess I play a more mobile FW but still I feel like I'm missing something sometimes. Maybe it's just the terrain my area uses. That said even just the movement and the flat 2d flamer has made him feel well worth his points. I like that he's an HQ that does something besides just rerolls, the game desperately needs more unique HQ's like that.
On the Onager situation, the more I use them the more I'm getting indifferent to them. They're incredibly tough point for point and... That's about it for a non Mars FW. The Neutron laser is way too few shots and way too swingy. The Icarus takes a long time to roll and is pretty useless if the opponent doesn't have fly units and you don't want to waste protector doctrina on them. The other weapons it can take are terrible. If I want AT, I want to take lastriders (seriously thank you to everyone who recommended them, they're amazing). If I want anti horde RoF, I bring Kastellans. If I want jack of all trades kill em all unit I want destroyers/striders. I just struggle to find a use for Onagers besides a screen ironically, and even there the Skorpius is superior. I know they get better with Cawl but when you don't run Cawl they're just a bit underwhelming. I feel like by the time you have Kastellans, lastriders, destroyers, and Skorpius, every base you could want to cover is covered and then some, and the Onager just doesn't have a niche left to fill.
MrMoustaffa wrote: I'm not the best player here but I've never found myself needing the range boost on my units through the Manipulus. Every game all I ever use is the movement buff. I guess I play a more mobile FW but still I feel like I'm missing something sometimes. Maybe it's just the terrain my area uses. That said even just the movement and the flat 2d flamer has made him feel well worth his points. I like that he's an HQ that does something besides just rerolls, the game desperately needs more unique HQ's like that.
On the Onager situation, the more I use them the more I'm getting indifferent to them. They're incredibly tough point for point and... That's about it for a non Mars FW. The Neutron laser is way too few shots and way too swingy. The Icarus takes a long time to roll and is pretty useless if the opponent doesn't have fly units and you don't want to waste protector doctrina on them. The other weapons it can take are terrible. If I want AT, I want to take lastriders (seriously thank you to everyone who recommended them, they're amazing). If I want anti horde RoF, I bring Kastellans. If I want jack of all trades kill em all unit I want destroyers/striders. I just struggle to find a use for Onagers besides a screen ironically, and even there the Skorpius is superior. I know they get better with Cawl but when you don't run Cawl they're just a bit underwhelming. I feel like by the time you have Kastellans, lastriders, destroyers, and Skorpius, every base you could want to cover is covered and then some, and the Onager just doesn't have a niche left to fill.
I disagree. The Onager provides quality shots with the icarus in a low cost, high defense model. It is better with Mars but honestly I'd still run it with stygies and a dominus. That still almost 60% hits with 10 quality shots on non-flyers. And with eldar planes & tanks and sm flying tanks it'll have solid targets most games. With Cawl they're amazing. Without cawl they're just good. Autocannon striders are the most comparable and while they win out with wounds they have less shots, less defense, cost more, and the same bs if they move. The Onager is mostly about if you have the heavy support slot to take them and skorpius. Until we see a caladius nerf you're crazy not to be running them.
@MrMoustaffa
Crawlers are definitely still relevant. They are tough; mobile; strong against any flyer as well as ground infantry if they are Mars; don't require CP; and have large bases for blocking charges.
@Hulksmash
Actually, Las Striders are the closest equivalent. Autocannons are actually not great against Caladius or most flying vehicles for that matter, especially Wave Serpents.
4 shots, wounding on 4s, 2 damage is essentially 2 shots, wounding on 3s, 3 damage. That's below average dice for the damage, without any command reroll (which I tend to do for any roll of 2 or less).
I think Autocannons only really do well against Razorwings. And most of the non-monstrous battlesuits and jetbikes. But we have a ton of S6 shooting for that.
Though one advantage of Autocannons is that they are 10 points per wound as opposed to 13.33.
It's also 33% more expensive. You can get can get 1.5 las striders for 7-10pts more than a dunecrawler. That's 3 lascannon shots that hit on 4's if you move. So equal hitting against ground and way worse hitting against flyers/flying units.Also autocannons are good against anything eldar or dark eldar that isn't a wave serpent. Against caladius point for point it's 6 damage from autocannons and 2d6 (avg 7) with lascannons. Difference being nearly 6 wounds more to the autocannons.
336pts of icarus crawlers is just 4 las striders. On what planet is 8 lascannon shots better than 12 autocannon, 15 ignore cover shots, 3 missiles, and 9 stubber shots. For the targets you shoot on the move the crawler is hands down a better choice, especially once negative hit modifers come into play. This isn't including a better save, more wounds, better invul with rerolls, and higher toughness.
TLDR;
Icarus crawlers definitely have a place. Especially with the increase in terrain you tend to see now which impacts the robots benefits.
U02dah4 wrote: I beleive your forgetting the increased durability of the dunecrawlers its also a huge factor
Im taking 3 neutron crawlers and 3 disintegrators i see no reason not to take both
I don't really find this increased durability much of a help. In my meta at least, where every shooting army is ready to take down at least a single knight a turn. I'm losing 1-2 Onagers a turn, depending on the opponent - a single large chunk of wounds is very susceptible to focused dd6 weapons fire.
@Hulksmash
Come on, we both know that's an unfair comparison. You're going to be using Doctrina on Striders. The fact that they can be squadroned and Crawlers can't is the biggest thing going for them.
Actually, no. The math clearly favors Las Striders over Auto Striders against all Eldar aircraft aside from Razorwings, both in points per wound and chance to kill.
T6 is just as durable as T7 against the standard S8 tank weapon.
I didn't say Lascannons are better than Icarus Arrays against Caladius. I said that they are better than Autocannons. Also didn't say Crawlers did not have a place. In fact, I said the exact opposite.
But if you want the actual Mathammer, against a Caladius, with Doctrina and Cawl rerolls:
4x Auto: 7.78w, 30.85714286 ppw
3x Las: 9.07w, 26.44897959 ppw
3x Icarus: 12.48w, 26.44897959 ppw
Las Striders perform identically against Icarus Arrays, which is surprising. But the Crawlers are more durable. The Las Striders also move much faster and perform way better against non-flying vehicles.
Going to be honest, the thing I hate the most about them is that I have to keep three of them close together and inside of Cawl's bubble. They are really fat!
Heavy Support - 224 1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber
Mars Spearhead Detachment - 363
HQ - 30 1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Mixed Battalion Detachment - 634
HQ - 60 1x Lucius Tech-Priest Enginseer - Relic: The Solar Flare
1x Ryza Tech-Priest Enginseer
Basically, a modified version of the Summer Slaughter list with 12x Breachers for screening and anti-vehicle volume fire instead of snipers and a third Crawler. Also a Solar Flare Enginseer, though a part of me is considering making that Ryza for one less deployment drop and taking up Anzion's Pseudogenetor or something.
Suzuteo wrote: Going to be honest, the thing I hate the most about them is that I have to keep three of them close together and inside of Cawl's bubble. They are really fat!
Yeah, that is infuriating to me. Leaving them off the base looks bad in my opinion but makes them objectively way better.
I rebased my Duencrawlers from 130mm to 100mm. Hopefully nobody takes exception to that, given that I don't have to base them at all technically.
Even if its restricted to a single target...holy crap thats brutally good.
That beast would definitely sit around your choice of backfield firepower and just go "Kill that one next"
Doesnt look too terribly hard to kitbash him out of a ranger alpha either.
The Skorpius should help them make more appearances on the battlefields.
