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Nostro wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Had my 2nd game of admech.

Either my luck with ruststalkers is weirdly high, or theyre deadlier than ive been lead to believe. Thats yet another game where they hid out of sight and immediately charged whatever deepstriked near me and absolutely wrecked them (10x lightning claw marines in this case, 5x thunderhammer termies in the first game)
.

AFAIK the bad rap they get is not about the damage output but rather the delivery means, especially compared with Infiltrators with native DS and better damage at range (in case of failed charge from DS). If used as counter-charge as you did they should be rather fine.

To march upfield, you'd need Lucius/Stygies to help over walking hugging cover/noLOS. Or... a transport The Skorpius should help them make more appearances on the battlefields.

Though with said transport, one could make a case that Fulgurites are even better still.

I so much want to like the cool Rusties, but its hard to take them over Fulgurites if you want to go competetive methinks.

I m affraid I see again numerous talks about what we do with our robot while what said was current meta does not favor robot Cawl.

Robots ... Why would you want to rush robot forward ??? Robot + manipul. Got a 50" threat turn one. Gg . Yes that issue of durability is important but if you want it you stay aegis. And you still got no melee iinvu . So to get it over with robots are v v good only if they double shoot as Mars . Not if they move or melee or nothing else . If you do anything else they are a waste always vs other same point options ...!

The real problem is not what robot s do for us . The real issue is we need to pin them in the ground and to cut it short 10 guardman consolidating in your ppinned robot not only stop 330+++ point shooting but also take obj deny area but also make your expensive tax charr move out to kill then and there if your enemy got any brain Cawl dies . Or robots locked and that is a 330 minimum + 190 + 90 manipulus not even taking the obj you payed half your list to do what?? Wanna talk about heavy terrain or true exeirnced enemies with juummpack fliers etc .

When the rule for fly changed again so the lists did. And since the only reason you ttrully need Cawl is if you got Breacher sppamm robots Icarus etc you must force your list towards that philosophy . Do it if you want a gun line and it's not bad especially if you heading vs enemies of -1-2 to hit but you will definitely then need allies to get cheap and super good options to cover the few points left .


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Cawl 190 . Superb when he was really tough to kill . And yyou see eveen if he suppose to be our counter unit dealing wiith threats ttowards ouur guns I talk about surviiving. It's one thing to not HIIT hard kiill enemies or be more of a antihorde and another to die vs any enemy char. So I have to take cawl giive him 9" aura add bs4+ Icarus breacheers etc to eveen worth ,190 points?

I love him and I love the gun line he create but as I said he is suuperb when combo with lots of uniits to a) rr bs4+ or vs fliers etc b) lots of units to gaiin the buff canticles like breacheers that's arre perfect ith Cawl c) know you will have a more static gunline at least back field d) you need seriously a counter unit good one heavy hiittterr and screen bigger than normal. So gun line no more points?


Why not go that way . A) because we have been playing it already some years . And mostly cause

B)there is a good chance now with new units tanks transports manipulus and mixed detachment to make a classic meta 2019 glass hyper flexible list that if prracttised and played seriously you . That's my take .

@suzuteo love the list it's definitely going the right way ( may thinkiing/) remove robots Cawl add options use Mars for mixed and use wrath on corpuscsrii gett also fulguritte . Infiltrators give you tons of shots marrs deepstrike it's exttremely valuable .

Using 2 transports leave options . Don't have to get vanguard always in you might want to get you Mars corpuscari in and make a lethal combo with infiltrators that's the point of the list . If it needs flexibility.

So vs gsc eexamle you protect your corpus and kill anything with booth infiltrators ND corpus .

Same if you got ryza plasma and fulgur. You lead the other groups to threat knights etc etc build uupon the list for options heading both ways dealing with all enemies and you can with few tweaks . Then use cp stratagems to maxiimise the plan you want vs any enemy . Lucius troops are better than other options .

Keep in mind what you want to achieve with your army then take the options.


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Vs

3 robots should be superb shooting vs terminators expensive etc .

Why pay 330 min for 57 shots range only when you can shoot 50 with infiltrators even if you pass only 10 mortals it's still half points . We talking about different plans but you get the idea .

Cognis Overwatch:
Use this stratagem when an AdMech unit from your army fires overwatch. Cognis weapons are fired using models ballistic skill for these attacks.

Rules Query:
If you use this stratagem then the enemy fails their charge (either by death or not enough rolled) and they have another unit going into your same unit in the same charge phase (e.g. Ironstriders) would the stratagem carry on over – because you can still fire overwatch against the new unit?

@Yoda79
I find the Robots more necessary than ever. They were the only thing keeping me in some games. They are durable and have such an amazing shooting profile, with the ability to apply mortal wounds to anything.

@The Forgemaster
Hard to say. I could see the argument for the effect only lasting for the attack and the phase. But RAW, it, Wrath of Mars, and Plasma Specialists technically last forever.

I would play it as if it only lasted for the attack though. I always assume the worst ruling.

Apparently first preorders of Combat arena arrived from Barns &Nobles .Any of our American friends have them and is willing to share stats for priest and servitor?

I am adopting a look before buying perspective, but even if he's a 20-30 point HQ, I will be happy as a clam because it gets past the Rule of Three problem that keeps us from triple Battalions.

 The Forgemaster wrote:
Cognis Overwatch:
Use this stratagem when an AdMech unit from your army fires overwatch. Cognis weapons are fired using models ballistic skill for these attacks.

Rules Query:
If you use this stratagem then the enemy fails their charge (either by death or not enough rolled) and they have another unit going into your same unit in the same charge phase (e.g. Ironstriders) would the stratagem carry on over – because you can still fire overwatch against the new unit?

No it is only "when you fire overwatch" (a specific instance) not during the charge phase

I expect the new guy and his servitor will follow the design philosophy for BSF - making the rules suck so that no-one complains “why do I have to buy this game I don’t want just to get this useful unit, or else I’m at a disadvantage against those who do?!” They messed up and made the kroot vaguely useful for his points but in general that’s the way BSF units have gone.

So I could see him having a weird faction or being a Datasmith-ish elite option just to avoid controversy.

Went 4-2 at TSHFT, got best AdMech, learned a lot. The advice here has been great, thanks all!

I can do a write up later but first I need sleep. Highlights: Hoplites+Duneriders did exactly what I wanted them to do, I had board control 5 of 6 games. Picking the +1 str canticle with them can be a game changer. 6 Arquebus snipers were solid in all but 1 game, maxed Headhunter in four games.

Nice! I definitely think AdMech has a lot of strong mobility options now that we have deep-striking or infiltrating Drills and Riders.

I sort of miss my Krast Crusader. Definitely made games more consistent to have a do-everything unit. He just gives up VP too easily in some matchups. (Dragoons are just more Gangbusters.)

Oh Dear. I would bet that this will roll out for other armies with similar abilities in the future by codex mk II or CA 2019.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/SMChapterTactics-Aug5-RavenGuard5ujvgw.jpg

edit: ignore this

 The Forgemaster wrote:
Oh Dear. I would bet that this will roll out for other armies with similar abilities in the future by codex mk II or CA 2019.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/SMChapterTactics-Aug5-RavenGuard5ujvgw.jpg

yep, i feel like stygies will get nerfed pretty soon, now its gonna be Mars or bust

bumping a 3+ to a 2+ is a lot better than bumping a 4+ to a 3+ so not a certainty

I really like that, if eldar get that that will help me not feel like an idiot for trying to use BS4+ units when eldar exist. Yeah stygies are taking a hit but so many more armies are going to be helped by that. Well, theoretically at least

if that replaces all such effects then unless its faq'd in it might not be that big of a deal.
Presumably if Admech dex v2 comes out the other dogmas would be fixed as well. Out of all the new marine ones the only one that sounds like a major stinker is the AP1 shots = AP0...well that one sounds familiar doesnt it?
Now yeah if they just faq it "All abilities with this type of effect work like this one now" then yeah...Mars only now. Not even sure if i'd bother having my 2nd battalion be graia at that point.

I mean that would be pretty bad I assume, it just adds shroudpsalm to the rest of the might be ok in niche situations canticles.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if that replaces all such effects then unless its faq'd in it might not be that big of a deal.
Presumably if Admech dex v2 comes out the other dogmas would be fixed as well. Out of all the new marine ones the only one that sounds like a major stinker is the AP1 shots = AP0...well that one sounds familiar doesnt it?
Now yeah if they just faq it "All abilities with this type of effect work like this one now" then yeah...Mars only now. Not even sure if i'd bother having my 2nd battalion be graia at that point.

I would imagine if they're taking the time to kneecap Stygies VII's trait they'd be at least passingly aware that the rest of our traits aside from Mars suck. Gives me hope that an Admech V2 codex will be much better laid out. It'd be really cool if we can make custom FW too but I won't hold my breath. If GW fixes canticles Stygies just gets free Shroudpsalm every turn and can use stuff like Benediction or Remorseless Fist, that's not too bad if they fix canticles. Hell just get rid of Litany of Electromancer and I'd be happy

Looks like GW's idea is taking a named chapter gets you 3, but you're locked in. Odds are the custom traits are just all these, but you get to pick only two to balance them out, with a couple like the Raven guard one possible taking up 2 or being unique to balance them out.

I think marines are actually going to get a good buff out of this. Marine players are the whiniest of the bunch, but I think there will be a ton of hidden gems jsut waiting to come out.

Honestly i think litany is close to being useable if they do 2 things.

1. Make it activate at the start of the fight phases
2. Make it require a roll of 6+ but add 1 for each other friendly unit with this ability within an inch of the opponent.

Basically, if i have 3 units wrapping one, i'd need a 4+ to get the mortal wounds off. AND i'd be able to have better control on the canticle, i might even pick it if im geting in a massive tarpit or if i got charged and multiple of my units are being wrapped by my opponent (genestealers in my screen for example).

Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does.
But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?

I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.

That and poster-child-syndrome lol

And i agree with Litany. I actually got a good outcome with it in my first game but i dont expect that to happen ever again. Ever. The fact that it happens immediately and not in the fight phase and is strictly melee range in a mostly shooty army bugs me
The use i got out of it was i had 3 vanguard squads (almost dead, but still 3 squads) around a dreadnought. Nailed it for 5 MWs lol. Never expecting that to happen again.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does.
But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?

I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.

That and poster-child-syndrome lol

I've had a marine player telling me that Cawl was OP and shouldve been a lord of war since he brings almost the same power as Guilliman to the table......

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does.
But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?

I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.

That and poster-child-syndrome lol

I've had a marine player telling me that Cawl was OP and shouldve been a lord of war since he brings almost the same power as Guilliman to the table......

i would have a hard time not laughing in his face....
There is no comparison between Cawl and Girlyman. None. Cawl does practically nothing outside his reroll aura and canticles manipulation, Girlyman is all auras in all phases and he is a beatstick on his own merit. Nevermind Cawl's size is a bit of a detriment.

Oh yeah. i dont take his opinion seriously anymore, he still tells everyone at my store how the castellan is dominating tables in competitive.

He's a good player but hes a borderling TFG, the type of player that says he plays "fluffy" lists but really hes playing lascannon spam in his salamanders because he knows hes playing against a vehicle heavy list.

Cawl's reroll ANY hit aura is strong, but comparing it to what guilliman does is basically a joke. He said that Guilliman is only strong when palyed with ultramarines, i'm not even sure that he knows Cawl is Mars-bound.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I really like that, if eldar get that that will help me not feel like an idiot for trying to use BS4+ units when eldar exist. Yeah stygies are taking a hit but so many more armies are going to be helped by that. Well, theoretically at least

Yup, this

If stygies has to get caught in the crossfire to make -3 to hit alaitoc get the dodo treatment, I’m ok with this

Sounds like my roommates friend, though in his defense he's a bit of an idiot when it comes to properly balancing a list so despite he obviously list-tailors and runs what he thinks is OP and nothing else....he usually loses lol. Still think it was hilarious he knew i was playing orks so he brought anti-horde and i plop down 14 vehicles lol...

Willing to bet he doesnt know cawl is mars only. IF cawl was universal holy crap he'd be so much stronger. Also, dont have the dex on me...is battlescribe wrong or is Cawl shootingphase only while Guilliman is all phases like all marine areas are for some stupid reason?

Dogmas doesn't bother me so much, -1 from stymies was usually ribbon, this FW was chosen because of the stratagem.

What I'm more interested in are warlord traits and relics. This may be really earth shaking for us.

Vineheart01 wrote:Sounds like my roommates friend, though in his defense he's a bit of an idiot when it comes to properly balancing a list so despite he obviously list-tailors and runs what he thinks is OP and nothing else....he usually loses lol. Still think it was hilarious he knew i was playing orks so he brought anti-horde and i plop down 14 vehicles lol...

Willing to bet he doesnt know cawl is mars only. IF cawl was universal holy crap he'd be so much stronger. Also, dont have the dex on me...is battlescribe wrong or is Cawl shootingphase only while Guilliman is all phases like all marine areas are for some stupid reason?

nope, admech only gets their rerolls in the shooting phase while SM's get them for any attack (shooting, fighting and overwatch)

Spera wrote:Dogmas doesn't bother me so much, -1 from stymies was usually ribbon, this FW was chosen because of the stratagem.

What I'm more interested in are warlord traits and relics. This may be really earth shaking for us.

Stygies was the go-to for the additionnal defense it brings to the table, the strat was just a bonus to use situationnaly, having cover and -1 on all our army is super strong in a game where alpha strikes can do so much damage.


I do hope that if/when they make our Codex 2.0, the relics and warlord traits will be heavily reworked, as it is, they are mostly flavor text than actual rules.

the only relics that are actively useful are the Autocaduceus and the solar flare,
as for our warlord traits, its basically Monitor malevolus, Static psalm code, necromechanic and the servitor maniple one that are useable (not as bad as our relics but still....)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not to mention marines have like 2x the unit options everyone else does.
But, what a third of them are actually used? If that?

I think the largest problem with marine players being whiny is fluff. In the game, marines die pretty easy. In the fluff, a single random marine is a fething brigade on his own. Easily the biggest difference in fluff vs gameplay of all the factions imo.

That and poster-child-syndrome lol

And i agree with Litany. I actually got a good outcome with it in my first game but i dont expect that to happen ever again. Ever. The fact that it happens immediately and not in the fight phase and is strictly melee range in a mostly shooty army bugs me
The use i got out of it was i had 3 vanguard squads (almost dead, but still 3 squads) around a dreadnought. Nailed it for 5 MWs lol. Never expecting that to happen again.

The worst part is you did it wrong. You only roll once for each enemy unit in B2B with your models. That means you could lock a dread with 10 units, and you still only get one roll to see if it triggers. So the max you can possible do is 3 wounds.

Let that sink in for a moment. I rolled it 3 times in a row my last game, against Knights. And that was after 4 kataphrons rolled a 1,1,1, and 3 for their shots after I'd dumped 3 CP into them to hit on 2's, and they only got one wound, which bounced. The salt was real.

gotta love it when you do a rule wrong and its bad even then and find out its even worse when done correctly lol.
Sounds like my ork Squigbuggy. I misread it as each of the crew has those guns, not the crew as a whole has the guns. I gave that thing literally 5x the shots its supposed to have, and it still did jack squat lol.

And..wow...yeah i'd be salty if that happened too lol...thats just disgustingly bad luck.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Nice! I definitely think AdMech has a lot of strong mobility options now that we have deep-striking or infiltrating Drills and Riders.

I sort of miss my Krast Crusader. Definitely made games more consistent to have a do-everything unit. He just gives up VP too easily in some matchups. (Dragoons are just more Gangbusters.)

That knight definitely gives up 4 points almost every game; I'm on the fence about replacing him. He was great against flyers if I could fish out "Lightning Fast Reactions" with an Icarus crawler, then use the knight against a different target. He did wonders against the chaos knight, of course. Having a quarter of my army invested into 1 model did wonders to keep my turns short.

Too often though, the opponent knows how to deal with Knights and they have a plan to bring it down in 1-2 turns. Tau reliably one-shot it (especially mechanized Tau), Eldar Flyer+Dark Reapers+psyker nonsense does the same. I think I'm going to keep running him until I learn how to get the most out of him and then reassess.


I'm definitely sticking to my plan of replacing Crawlers with Belleros Grators and I'm getting 2 more Dragoons (every single game I wished I had 2 more). Infiltrators are getting cut; they weren't bad, per se, but I can find a better use for the points. I played 3 of my games against Eldar and I seriously wish I had taken my second battalion as Graia instead of Stygies.