Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes

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**Suzuteo**

Rowboat nerf. Finally. Not that he's weak now. But it is necessary if the rest of the codex is to grow beyond Smurfs.

Anyhow, my previous list was... not that good.

Lessons learned:
-Failed to consider that putting half my army into deep strike means that they have an entire round to go straight for the Robots. Having a Distraction Carnifex is still important.
-Ryza and Mars are a great combo. You can pick RR1s to hit for your Canticle and still roll for Shroudpsalm for the Mars vehicles.
-The Drill is also a hilarious Distraction Carnifex. They pretty much have to spend the turn killing the Skitarii (which should be deployed into an enclosed ruin if possible) and the Drill before it runs up to vehicles and butchering them.
-Having two Ryza Drill+Vanguard is a bit redundant because only one can get roided up by stratagems.
-Corpuscarii are a lot frailer in practice than on paper. They can't take return fire at all; you have to be really sure you can gun down whatever they are up against. I am sure they are still great against T4 armies though.
-Grators are still amazing. Great at cleanup. And they don't seem nearly as scary as the other elements of the army, and they are quite mobile and durable, so nobody really focuses them, allowing their contribution to add up over time.

New list is like my list before last, only I drop two Crawlers for the Ryza Drill+Vanguard:

Spoiler:

I have exactly enough points to take an Assassin, but I am afraid I might not have enough CP to run them on top of Robots and the Ryza Vanguard.

Suggestions? I could cut a Dragoon too. Or add one to get the full unit of 6x.

3x Mars Destroyers for stronger Robot output?
5x Mars Breachers for some extra shooting and screening? Or 6x Agripinaa in the mixed detachment for the zombie screen. Lol.
8x Mars Infiltrators? Competes with the Robots though.
10x Fulgurites? No transport to go with them though, not unless I make them Ryza.

EDIT: Can anyone tell me what their solution is for magnetizing the front half of the Grators? I put magnets in the sides of the front ramp area, but they don't hold very well...

**the_Grak**

@Suzuteo: I highly recommend proxying some Hoplites to put in that drill. Their weapon profile and their durability in melee have been useful in every game, as long as I have a way to deliver them; seriously MvP's in several games now. Adding a Dragoon seems like a great choice too, but I've only run 4 and am building up to 6, so I could be missing something. In the end, the Assassin is going to be the most versatile choice if you can afford the CP, which I think you can if you're stingy, but only practice games would tell for sure.

*edit: After consideration, taking two units of Hoplites has been essential to their success in a few games so they might not be what you're looking for.

**Suzuteo**

I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?

Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?

I could always try going closer to the Summer Slaughter list's setup though:

Spoiler:

Differences here are that I use Dakkabots instead of 3x Crawlers, throw in 3x3 Breachers instead of sniper rifles, Mars Manipulus instead of Ryza Dominus to give the castle +6" range (again, because I am using Breachers and Dakkabots), and do Ryza Enginseers to reduce drops and repair the Drills. Oh, and I cut the Arc Rifles. Because I never found a situation where I would prefer 2x Arc Rifles over another body on Rangers.

**Spera**

Suzuteo wrote:
I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?

Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?

They are hard to shift, punch hard and are excellent in boardgame. You can hide them in LoS block, and expert pressure. if your list is mainly gun line, 10 or 20 of those guys are excellent way t excerpt pressure, and not wait to score middle board objectives. If you can prevent them being shouted out, t3 in close combat actually isn't bad because you can have opportunity for more inv saves. They aren't your killer unit, but they can take punch while punching back. I never regretted taking at least one unit of them. They were catching knights charges, gene stealers and orc boys like no other.

**Suzuteo**

Spera wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?

Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?

They are hard to shift, punch hard and are excellent in boardgame. You can hide them in LoS block, and expert pressure. if your list is mainly gun line, 10 or 20 of those guys are excellent way t excerpt pressure, and not wait to score middle board objectives. If you can prevent them being shouted out, t3 in close combat actually isn't bad because you can have opportunity for more inv saves. They aren't your killer unit, but they can take punch while punching back. I never regretted taking at least one unit of them. They were catching knights charges, gene stealers and orc boys like no other.

I can see them taking on Genestealers and Boyz, but can they really take a Knight without being wiped? Is this the Avenger Gatling AND the Feet? Also, have you played enough with Breachers to know how they compare? My worry is that they are an Elite unit, so I would have to pay the tax still.

**Spera**

Suzuteo wrote:
Spera wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?

Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?

They are hard to shift, punch hard and are excellent in boardgame. You can hide them in LoS block, and expert pressure. if your list is mainly gun line, 10 or 20 of those guys are excellent way t excerpt pressure, and not wait to score middle board objectives. If you can prevent them being shouted out, t3 in close combat actually isn't bad because you can have opportunity for more inv saves. They aren't your killer unit, but they can take punch while punching back. I never regretted taking at least one unit of them. They were catching knights charges, gene stealers and orc boys like no other.

I can see them taking on Genestealers and Boyz, but can they really take a Knight without being wiped? Is this the Avenger Gatling AND the Feet? Also, have you played enough with Breachers to know how they compare? My worry is that they are an Elite unit, so I would have to pay the tax still.

No, they won't take knight alone, but they can charge it and do some wounds. If you position carefully, your opponent can't fall back over them, and they will survive close combat retaliation. Last game when we were testing new chaos knights, i shot most of my things into one rampager, and then finished him of with hoplites, while the second one was destroyed by dragons. Both dragons and hoplites ultimately died to enemy shooting, but after that game was already over because disintegrators were moping rest of his army. Don't overlook them, Between shooting, melee and mw from shields, they can net you 9-10 wounds on knight, and that isn't bad for 90 pt unit that isn't dedicated antiknight. They are cheap for what they do and counterintuitively durable. They will draw more firepower than they are worth.

**the_Grak**

Suzuteo wrote:
I don't own any. Can you explain why Hoplites are particularly good?

Also, why is it important to take two units? And do you do 2x10?

Some quick Hoplite facts:
Hoplites do almost as much damage as Fulgurites against most targets except T3 where they do more, and Hoplites are only 9 points per model.
They have 4+/5++ against ranged which is decent but isn't enough to keep them from getting shot off the table; that's why I start them in a boat.
They have a 4++ in melee, and unmodified saving throws of 6 in melee do a MW to the attacking unit.
Their spear is also an Assault1 gun, so I can usually do some damage with them even if everything has gone sideways.
At str 6, ap -1 they are good against a variety of targets and the +1 str canticle pairs well with them doing d3 damage to vehicles.
They have the skitarii keyword and are effected by the Omniscient Mask.

I've been Stygies scout-moving a unit of 4 Dragoons and two boats full of Hoplites to create pressure right at the beginning. I try to position the Dragoons to be perceived as the bigger threat so that they take any shooting, and I have an Enginseer with Mask following right behind. Generally I have the Hoplite units supporting each other while the Dragoons go do what they do. Often, I'm staggering charges against dedicated CC units so that when Hoplites eat a counter-charge I have a unit to charge back in. Because of the MW's on 6's to save, eating counter-charges with Hoplites can be really effective with some planning. Against gunlines, I use the Dragoon-distraction to get the boats up the table and deliver the Hoplites to their doorstep. Once the Hoplites are delivered I make the Duneriders as obnoxious as possible: move blocking, shooting screens, charging anything that isn't screened, auto-exploding for a CP. No one expects the transport to advance and still shoot, or overwatch using it's ballistic skill. Even if it doesn't damage much it gets a lot of attention and the Hoplites live another turn.

For 326 points (20 Hoplites, 2 boats), it's quite a bit of utility.

**Suzuteo**

Thanks. I will mull on it. I would need to buy two Boats and 20 spears and shields to modify some Skitarii. T_T

**Suzuteo**

Looking at the Mathhammer on the Hoplites, and they seem okay. They punch above their weight for sure, especially when combined with Vanguard. And they are fairly durable. But I still think Fulgurites are better. Might be like Breachers, and maybe I am missing something?

On that note, has anyone run non-Stygies Fulgurites or Fulgurites in Boats? How do you feel about them? Because I always imagined them in Stygies Boats or Drills for the infiltration and -1 to hit; with Acquisition At All Costs, they become digustingly hard to kill. But Mars for the +1S or RR1 in fighting is nice too.

**Vineheart01**

Apparently Gravis armor marines are 3 wounds now.
Kinda bumps up the reasons to use the flat 3D gun on the grators even more.
Wasnt really planning to use that gun as i commonly have to deal with sneaky jumppacks hiding around corners, but aggressors with the new rules are fething scary looking.

**jhnbrg**

Hello,

I tried to get an answer to a few questions in the 40k general discussion board without luck, so i will try here if it is OK.

-Where can i find the rules for the new transport?
-I loosely remeber there was a change in the number of command points you get from the formations but i cant find where it is.
-I see a lot of reference to a drill transport (like the old epic termite), in what book can i find it?

Thanks in advance,

**JNAProductions**

jhnbrg wrote:
Hello,

I tried to get an answer to a few questions in the 40k general discussion board without luck, so i will try here if it is OK.

-Where can i find the rules for the new transport?
-I loosely remeber there was a change in the number of command points you get from the formations but i cant find where it is.
-I see a lot of reference to a drill transport (like the old epic termite), in what book can i find it?

Thanks in advance,

I think you can find the tank online. Check GW's website.

Big FAQ, I believe. For reference, Battalions are 5 and Brigades are 12.

Imperial Armor, the Forgeworld book. Get the one for Ad Mech.

**jhnbrg**

JNAProductions wrote:

I think you can find the tank online. Check GW's website.

Big FAQ, I believe. For reference, Battalions are 5 and Brigades are 12.

Imperial Armor, the Forgeworld book. Get the one for Ad Mech.

Thanks for the answer, I think i have looked everywhere on the GW site but i cant find any trace of datasheets the transport or anything about the CP change. Does anyone have a link?

**JNAProductions**

Battalion and Brigade Changes: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

Find them on page 2.

Can't find the Dunerider stats myself, sorry.

**MrMoustaffa**

The only official source of the rules for the dunerider is the box it comes in at the moment, same for the Manipulus. That said battlescribe has the rules in full and a 5 second search on Google should pull them right up

**jhnbrg**

JNAProductions wrote:
Battalion and Brigade Changes: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

Find them on page 2.

Can't find the Dunerider stats myself, sorry.

Thanks, I finally found it, i have read that document atleast 5 times today without spotting it.

**JNAProductions**

jhnbrg wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
Battalion and Brigade Changes: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

Find them on page 2.

Can't find the Dunerider stats myself, sorry.

Thanks, I finally found it, i have read that document atleast 5 times today without spotting it.

No problem! Happy to help.

**jhnbrg**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
The only official source of the rules for the dunerider is the box it comes in at the moment, same for the Manipulus. That said battlescribe has the rules in full and a 5 second search on Google should pull them right up

So if i get a dunerider box i will have all the rules i need to use it?

**MrMoustaffa**

jhnbrg wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
The only official source of the rules for the dunerider is the box it comes in at the moment, same for the Manipulus. That said battlescribe has the rules in full and a 5 second search on Google should pull them right up

So if i get a dunerider box i will have all the rules i need to use it?

Yep, it's in the instructions

**Suzuteo**

Drill rules are here:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Terrax-pattern-Termite-Assault-Drill.pdf

I am pretty sure Knights are just not viable going forward. Those Super Smash Captains can hit on 2s, wound on 2s, S23 (effective) AP-4 D6 or something like that. Attack 8 times, twice. You can kill two Knights in a single turn.

**Ideasweasel**

@Suzuteo

As someone who plays knights it’s becoming painfully obvious.

It’s a shame as I love my giant centrepiece robots and don’t play apoc

If only we could overwatch the smash captains. That’s the real kicker

**the_Grak**

Ideasweasel wrote:
If only we could overwatch the smash captains. That’s the real kicker

I haven't seen all the leaks but I'm pretty sure that the smash captain being referenced is the white scars on bike captain, which you could overwatch. If you're taking a knight crusader you could screen him out, too. Smashy is still a 160ish point+8CP suicide missile that can be planned for.

**Ideasweasel**

Ah I thought he meant blood angels had a buff.

I already question the value of my knights but if it’s set to get worse that’s a tough scenario.

Back on topic to Admech for a moment - how do we all feel about Admechs ability to cope with the new new marine wave on the horizon?

**Suzuteo**

Yes, WS Biker Captain. I wonder what nickname they are going to settle on. Super Smash Captain is a bit bland, so perhaps Smash Khan or something?

Anyhow, your Knight can overwatch a Super Smash Captain, but he likely will have something else take it for him. And even if this is not the case, you can't kill him anyway, especially if you have a melee or hybrid Knight.

This all being said, we are one of the better positioned armies to handle Space Marines. Corpuscarii can deepstrike and do a lot of work with S5 shooting and fighting. And while other armies can fear Aggressors, I think Aggressors will fear us. We have the strongest S6 gunline there is (though Tau probably have a more durable one), and Breachers are still ridiculously resilient against bolters and flamers. They have to hit, wound on 5+, then we have to fail a 2+ save. And whereas they can only bring in 3x6 of them, we can do much larger units for comparable cost.

EDIT: Scratch that last list, this is probably safer:

Spoiler:

Decided to sacrifice a Las Strider to fit in more Breachers. Gotta have that resilient screen to make this work.

**Ideasweasel**

Is 3 las striders enough to drop a flyer?

**Suzuteo**

Ideasweasel wrote:
Is 3 las striders enough to drop a flyer?

No. But getting swarmed by melee attackers is a more pressing concern. I am sure that three Grators with rerolls can clean up.

**Spera**

Suzuteo wrote:
Looking at the Mathhammer on the Hoplites, and they seem okay. They punch above their weight for sure, especially when combined with Vanguard. And they are fairly durable. But I still think Fulgurites are better. Might be like Breachers, and maybe I am missing something?

On that note, has anyone run non-Stygies Fulgurites or Fulgurites in Boats? How do you feel about them? Because I always imagined them in Stygies Boats or Drills for the infiltration and -1 to hit; with Acquisition At All Costs, they become digustingly hard to kill. But Mars for the +1S or RR1 in fighting is nice too.

Because fulgurites are better on offense where Hoplites are better on defense. If you trigger fulgurites armor you want to push them further into enemy units. Hoplites will do their job even without dealing damage, just being obstacle on the way. Its difference between rocket and landmine.

**Suzuteo**

@Spera
I see. Only thing keeping me from putting them in my list, aside from not having any, is the fact that they are 90 points for an Elite choice. For the same 90 points, I can turn a Ranger into a 4x Breacher unit.

On that note, 4x Breacher looks more appearing than 10x Hoplite still. Especially given how Space Marines have a Bolter for each finger (quite literally for Aggressors) these days. I assume that I can protect them with Boats, but that is another 73 points, and they have to get out some time. Only funny thing is the mortal wounds reflect. Some units may well end up killing themselves on Hoplites. I know that I have intentionally used Robot invulnerables on Lasguns just for lulz.

**Ideasweasel**

Suzuteo wrote:
Ideasweasel wrote:
Is 3 las striders enough to drop a flyer?

No. But getting swarmed by melee attackers is a more pressing concern. I am sure that three Grators with rerolls can clean up.

Ahh fair enough

In other news, look what some chap is thinking of taking to Nova.

I love this guys list looks hilariously fun to play

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
*edit apologies for the size I am not quite sure how to do spoiler button looking at doing that now*

**Vineheart01**

Tip: Spoiler tags are in brackets [ and ] with a / before the spoiler word to "end" the spoiler.
First spoiler in brackets has no slash, second one does.
Hope that was clear enough. Kinda hard to type it out without accidentally triggering it lol