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After my experiences at GKO, I am thinking of continuing forward with one of two lists:

Thompson-style list with lots of mortal wound spam from Dakkabots and Fulgurites in Drills. It really does solve a lot of our problems. I can apply maximum Distraction Carnifex by infiltrating both with Fulgurites and an Enginseer to repair/soak overwatch (useful against Tau). Or I can keep one Fulgurite handy as a counter-charger and then just deep strike the Drill with 11-12 Vanguard inside. This solves the problem of games where my Mortars cleared a far-off objective, but I had no way to put any infantry on them.

I can also fit a unit of Dragoons in, which are also strong, but I think the meta just calls for more mortal wounds and more infantry capable of being inside ruins.

I was also actually impressed by Manipulus melee. I could give him +1S to help his tentacles wound a Crisis Commander. And his +1 movement is probably more important than his +6" range, which I only used in my first and second games. Anyhow, I think giving my Manipulus Pseudogenetor might be the way to go from now on.

But therein lies a problem. See, I want the minus to hit and the infiltration on my Fulgurite and Drills. But I also want the Manipulus to give them +1 to move, advance, and charge. The distance really adds up!


The other list is the Stygies list, also with Priests and Drills:

Ironstriders for high strength LOS shooting. Grators as usual. Infiltrators and Assassin for deep striking. Fulgurites and Dragoons backed by melee Manipulus for mobility shenanigans.

The manipulus with the pseudogenowhatever is something I considered, but that's going to be what, average 7 mechadendrite attacks between the two? Is that really worth a relic? Don't get me wrong it's cool as hell, but if I'm gonna do something like that I'd almost rather throw the Mars pattern axe on a Dominus or something. Heck Id rather have a phosphoenix on the Dominus to let him finish off wounded units. Not really much else worth choosing other than the autodecaneus though I guess, so it doesn't hurt.

I do agree his movement buffs are huge. Watching Metalica vanguard advance 14" or robots going 16" is pretty crazy. Since so much of our stuff moves in the 6-12 range it really helps. I don't think I've used the range buff once. Not that the range buff is bad so much as I just value the movement.

Personally I like that second list. Anything Mars just feels too static to me. Cawls good don't get me wrong, but it just feels a lot less flexible than the second list. Yeah you have some fulgurite and drills but the robots ideally need to be static to hit as hard.

Meanwhile that second list has lastriders that can move 11"+2d6+1 inches and still hit on 3's with 2 CP, Dragoons that are fast and aggressive, infiltrators that can drop anywhere and WoM, plus all the mobile stuff the Mars list has. You also have pysker denial. Really the only issue I see is less anti horde but the Skorpius seem pretty good at it and other units can pick up the slack too. That and the same problem any non Mars has of being more at the mercy of canticles.

Something I could do is drop Dragoons to run two Drills+Priests in the second list. Fulgurites are like melee Kastelans. They vomit mortal wounds, clear all sorts of infantry, can fight twice...

The new mortar tanks. What are the ideal targets for them? Aeldari bikes behind cover?

The 2D seems wasted on a lot of targets. Those that have been using them have any good examples where they really shone?

 Ideasweasel wrote:
The new mortar tanks. What are the ideal targets for them? Aeldari bikes behind cover?

The 2D seems wasted on a lot of targets. Those that have been using them have any good examples where they really shone?

Vs Guard Mortar teams? wound on 2+ they get a 6+ save usually and instant kill a team per failed save...

They want the same targets Autocannons are best against - T3-5 2W models.
Trading a strength for indirect fire is vastly worth it imo. Things like termies, primaris, nobz, or whatever cant hide from it but they can hide from autocannons.

 The Forgemaster wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
The new mortar tanks. What are the ideal targets for them? Aeldari bikes behind cover?

The 2D seems wasted on a lot of targets. Those that have been using them have any good examples where they really shone?

Vs Guard Mortar teams? wound on 2+ they get a 6+ save usually and instant kill a team per failed save...

So my maths says 3 tanks shooting into a squad of guardsmen is only 5 dead? Is that right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wait it’s 8 never mind

 Ideasweasel wrote:

 The Forgemaster wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
The new mortar tanks. What are the ideal targets for them? Aeldari bikes behind cover?

The 2D seems wasted on a lot of targets. Those that have been using them have any good examples where they really shone?

Vs Guard Mortar teams? wound on 2+ they get a 6+ save usually and instant kill a team per failed save...

So my maths says 3 tanks shooting into a squad of guardsmen is only 5 dead? Is that right?

S6 AP-1 D2, right?

So to kill five Guard takes...

5 unsaved wounds
6 wounds
36/5 hits
54/5 shots

I coulda sworn they were more than 3 shots apiece, which is what they are if three tanks kills five Guard.

9D3 would kill 8 I think.

I really have been spoiled with wyverns. I took 3 today with all the shiny vigilus shenanigans and it’s just insane how many shots they put out

Trying to get excited for them but every target I compare them to is inferior. The one caveat is they are cheap points and you don’t need to throw 7CP into them to function

So if I build Admech Imperial soup that requires a lot of CP they could shine as the budget less effective version

And obviously as mono Admech they are the best option available

 Ideasweasel wrote:
9D3 would kill 8 I think.

I really have been spoiled with wyverns. I took 3 today with all the shiny vigilus shenanigans and it’s just insane how many shots they put out

Trying to get excited for them but every target I compare them to is inferior. The one caveat is they are cheap points and you don’t need to throw 7CP into them to function

So if I build Admech Imperial soup that requires a lot of CP they could shine as the budget less effective version

And obviously as mono Admech they are the best option available

You're looking at them the wrong way, especially compared to a wyvern. A wyvern is hyper specialized. It does one thing to the exclusion of all others and that's it. If that got caught in the open, or had to fight a knight list, it's not going to have a good time.

Meanwhile a Skorpius is kind of a Swiss army knife. It's a halfway decent tank, it's decently fast, it can threaten tanks, infantry, whatever, and it even gives buffs to infantry around it. Not to mention it's a great wall to block LOs, charges, screen, or even move up to grab an objective if need be. Don't look at it as "what one thing does the skorpius well" so much as a unit that no matter what you fight, will have a genuine use and purpose. I've yet to have a game where the Belleros felt useless. I've picked on Armigers hiding out of LOS, cleaned up infantry on backfield objectives, thrown it at tanks, etc. It's never going to obliterate a target but its one of the few "jack of all trades" units in this game that actually does that idea pretty well in my opinion.

And as you notice their CP cost is non-existent. That goes a long way when everything else we have feels like it's fighting for CP support.

That's my take on it at least. I have two and they're gonna be in every list from here on

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
9D3 would kill 8 I think.

I really have been spoiled with wyverns. I took 3 today with all the shiny vigilus shenanigans and it’s just insane how many shots they put out

Trying to get excited for them but every target I compare them to is inferior. The one caveat is they are cheap points and you don’t need to throw 7CP into them to function

So if I build Admech Imperial soup that requires a lot of CP they could shine as the budget less effective version

And obviously as mono Admech they are the best option available

You're looking at them the wrong way, especially compared to a wyvern. A wyvern is hyper specialized. It does one thing to the exclusion of all others and that's it. If that got caught in the open, or had to fight a knight list, it's not going to have a good time.

Meanwhile a Skorpius is kind of a Swiss army knife. It's a halfway decent tank, it's decently fast, it can threaten tanks, infantry, whatever, and it even gives buffs to infantry around it. Not to mention it's a great wall to block LOs, charges, screen, or even move up to grab an objective if need be. Don't look at it as "what one thing does the skorpius well" so much as a unit that no matter what you fight, will have a genuine use and purpose. I've yet to have a game where the Belleros felt useless. I've picked on Armigers hiding out of LOS, cleaned up infantry on backfield objectives, thrown it at tanks, etc. It's never going to obliterate a target but its one of the few "jack of all trades" units in this game that actually does that idea pretty well in my opinion.

And as you notice their CP cost is non-existent. That goes a long way when everything else we have feels like it's fighting for CP support.

That's my take on it at least. I have two and they're gonna be in every list from here on

Completly agree here - I have found they are so useful. I currently only have one but when I next start spending that will probably change. Minimal CP investment is always nice as well (there ar two strats that might be of use occasionally - Protecter Imperative & cognis overwatch both only occasionally needed and only 1CP).

I am just about to start an escalation league this weekend (the points start at 600 and increase each week up to 2k, we also can't remove models from our lists) and my skorpius is in my starting 600pts list because of its cheapness and the fact that it has many roles to play in an AdMech list.

I've found them awesome against Tau Shield Drones. If the drone fails a save it's generally dead instead of ignoring the fail. Same with PB's or anything with 1 wound and FnP.

Also I don't judge the tank on just it's mortar. 9 heavy stubber shots and d6 st7 d3 damage shots is solid as well. It's a pretty awesome platform for 111. The versatility is it's best attribute. Plus it can move and fire

Cool thanks guys.

I’m going to proxy some out to see how they do

Judging anything with multiple forms of attacking for 1 way it attacks is kinda unfair in the first place.
If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots? Even with the LoS ignoring part, thats pretty bad. It would need twice that RoF to be worth the points at the strength it fires.
But it has quite a few bits of dakka. The LoS ignoring part is a bonus in case something is hiding from you, you shouldnt strive for it because then you are only using it more often than not and it wont ever make its points back.
Had this been 7th, i could understand that argument. My rebuttle every time someone complained about my tau SMS weapons was "who the heck do i have SMS' on that doesnt have a significantly bigger, deadlier gun??? If i actually use the indirect fire, i lose out the big gun firepower"
But now we can splitfire so thats not a prob

 Ideasweasel wrote:
The new mortar tanks. What are the ideal targets for them? Aeldari bikes behind cover?

The 2D seems wasted on a lot of targets. Those that have been using them have any good examples where they really shone?

Based on my experience in the GT:

Game 1 - Venoms (missiles), Eldar infantry (stubbers, mortar), Harlequin characters

Game 2 - Mortar Teams (mortars, killed all but one single model in round 1), Rhinoxes (missiles), Guardsmen (stubbers, mortar)

Game 3 - Had to pour everything into Knights, but I would kill Skitarii

Game 4 - Crisis Suits (missiles, mortars), Shield Drones (mortars), Breachers (stubbers, mortar)

Game 5 - Shield Drones (mortars), Breachers (stubbers, mortar); both hiding in ruins

One thing you should be aware of is that the second point of damage is not wasted on Shield Drones or anything with FNP. He has to make two FNP rolls, which rarely succeeds.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I've found them awesome against Tau Shield Drones. If the drone fails a save it's generally dead instead of ignoring the fail. Same with PB's or anything with 1 wound and FnP.

Also I don't judge the tank on just it's mortar. 9 heavy stubber shots and d6 st7 d3 damage shots is solid as well. It's a pretty awesome platform for 111. The versatility is it's best attribute. Plus it can move and fire

Ah. Hulksmash beat me to it. But yeah, these Grators are amazing. They do everything but fight: screen, grab objectives, shoot non-LOS, shoot LOS. There is a reason why every one of my new lists have three of them. I never found them useless. In fact, they made my Crawlers and even my Robots look a bit useless at times.

I’m definitely going to test them out(proxy)

I’ll let you folks know if/when I’m a convert

One thing I did forget to mention is don't expect any crazy game winning plays out of them. For all we talk them up, they're actually a pretty modest unit in practice. They're just really consistent and reliable. That said, the most shining endorsement I can think of is the moment an opponent saw what they did, they started lighting them up, even when bots or lastriders were around. Anytime your opponent looks at something and says "I want that gone" it's probably doing something useful for your list.

 Suzuteo wrote:
After my experiences at GKO, I am thinking of continuing forward with one of two lists:

Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead Detachment - 963
Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)

HQ - 190
1x Belisarius Cawl, Warlord

Heavy Support - 773
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon

Mars Battalion Detachment - 220

HQ - 115
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Anzion's Pseudogenetor
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 816

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 136
6x Skitarii Vanguard - 6x Radium Carbine
6x Skitarii Vanguard - 6x Radium Carbine
5x Skitarii Vanguard - 5x Radium Carbine

Elite - 352
11x Fulgurite Electro-Priest
11x Fulgurite Electro-Priest

Transport - 268
1x Termite Assault Drill - 2x Stormbolter
1x Termite Assault Drill - 2x Stormbolter

Total: 1999 points
13 CP

Thompson-style list with lots of mortal wound spam from Dakkabots and Fulgurites in Drills. It really does solve a lot of our problems. I can apply maximum Distraction Carnifex by infiltrating both with Fulgurites and an Enginseer to repair/soak overwatch (useful against Tau). Or I can keep one Fulgurite handy as a counter-charger and then just deep strike the Drill with 11-12 Vanguard inside. This solves the problem of games where my Mortars cleared a far-off objective, but I had no way to put any infantry on them.

I can also fit a unit of Dragoons in, which are also strong, but I think the meta just calls for more mortal wounds and more infantry capable of being inside ruins.

I was also actually impressed by Manipulus melee. I could give him +1S to help his tentacles wound a Crisis Commander. And his +1 movement is probably more important than his +6" range, which I only used in my first and second games. Anyhow, I think giving my Manipulus Pseudogenetor might be the way to go from now on.

But therein lies a problem. See, I want the minus to hit and the infiltration on my Fulgurite and Drills. But I also want the Manipulus to give them +1 to move, advance, and charge. The distance really adds up!


The other list is the Stygies list, also with Priests and Drills:

Spoiler:

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 1257

HQ - 175
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Warlord: Prime Hermeticon, Relic: Anzion's Pseudogenetor

Troop - 112
6x Skitarii Ranger - 6x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Elite - 176
11x Fulgurite Electro-Priest

Transport - 134
1x Termite Assault Drill - 2x Stormbolter

Fast Attack - 660
5x Sydonian Dragoon - 5x Taser Lance
4x Ironstrider Ballistarii - 4x Twin Cognis Lascannon

Stygies VIII Spearhead Detachment - 363

HQ - 30
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Heavy Support - 333
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon

Mixed Battalion Detachment - 291

HQ - 60
1x Graia Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Graia Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Graia Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Graia Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Graia Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Elite - 126
7x Mars Sicarian Infiltrator - 7x Flechette Blaster, 7x Taser Goad

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - 85 (-2 CP)

Total: 1996 points
12 CP

Ironstriders for high strength LOS shooting. Grators as usual. Infiltrators and Assassin for deep striking. Fulgurites and Dragoons backed by melee Manipulus for mobility shenanigans.

I personally like the second list better, but I have absolutely 0 tournament experience in 8th edition, so....use your best judgement.

I will say that it pains me to see such small squads of infantry. I play, and have played, a lot of armies, but my favorites have been those that waves upon waves of troops. Guard, orks, and daemons. I have a fair amount of skitarii that I am finishing building and plan on running at some point soon-60ish skitarri infantry backing up knights.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
One thing I did forget to mention is don't expect any crazy game winning plays out of them. For all we talk them up, they're actually a pretty modest unit in practice. They're just really consistent and reliable. That said, the most shining endorsement I can think of is the moment an opponent saw what they did, they started lighting them up, even when bots or lastriders were around. Anytime your opponent looks at something and says "I want that gone" it's probably doing something useful for your list.

In my game two, I actually sacrificed my Robots and then a Crawler to protect my Grators. (It was a ruins-heavy board, and I was playing against Guard. Non-LOS shooting was super, super important.) But yeah, their effect is cumulative. Over the course of four rounds, you will be amazed at the sort of impact they have on the game. They reminded me of Basilisks, only better because of Cawl rerolls, Shroudpsalm, extra dakka, and excellent movement.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots?

Not sure how you reached those numbers? 3D3 is 6 shots on average and a minimum of 3 shots, while an autocannon ironstrider has 4 shots.

As i said i m heading towards more flexible list so definetly the second one Suzuteo is going that way.

Both types of priest infiltrators mixed detachment wrath of mars depending on enemy etc. That list can be mobile lethal as you said you can use cp where you need them be mobile still ahve the mortals /options to face anything etc. It was the time of Cawl and kataphrons all thsi year and trully enjoyed it and breachers before fly rule and destroyers that i field still.

But from now on and with new tanks etc the list can become a lot more flexible mobile etc and that is where im heading.
Still have not gotten down to it cause i m still preparing for ETc and heading there next week . But i will start experimenting soon after.

Your second list is closer to my thinking just some tips to consider.

1) Grator got low range so you should consider manipulus and Grators same team starting even if manipulus move out soon enough. Deployment with him so thats 1.

2) Definetly i will consider my pure detachment as stygies for -1 to hit and infiltration.

3) definetly it will have a mixed detachment for options like.

dual mars threat units most likely pew pew priest and infiltrators etc etc.

i have not settled yet to the whole idea but i cosnider the build to be something like two units for everything.

Stygies asasault mars pew pew options grai for deny etc. that said i can see balistarii mars grator stygies melee priest stygies pew corpuscary mars infiltrators mars grai troops. etc.

Some where there i have it in my mind.

 Redemption wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots?

Not sure how you reached those numbers? 3D3 is 6 shots on average and a minimum of 3 shots, while an autocannon ironstrider has 4 shots.

Less shots per cost sorry, was comparing 2 autostriders there as the tank is 2x the cost-ish of an ironstrider
And i dunno bout you guys but i roll 7 on a 3d3 about 80% of the time or so. Almost never more, occationally less but usually 7

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If it was only the 3D3 shots, dude that thing would be horrible. Twice the price of an autocannon ironstrider for on average 1 less shot with the potential for way less shots?

Not sure how you reached those numbers? 3D3 is 6 shots on average and a minimum of 3 shots, while an autocannon ironstrider has 4 shots.

Less shots per cost sorry, was comparing 2 autostriders there as the tank is 2x the cost-ish of an ironstrider
And i dunno bout you guys but i roll 7 on a 3d3 about 80% of the time or so. Almost never more, occationally less but usually 7

Well they also have 9 stubber shots and ~3.5 better autocannon shots additionally. Only real thing striders are good at is their efficient CP usage

Right, which is why i said judging the tank based purely on its 3D3 shot was silly.

Just saw a painted version of a colossus robot.

That's quite nice. Not my cup of tea but very retro.

Has anyone done a conversion for the duneriders yet? I still hate it, but I would be interested in turning back to my AdMech to add some useful vehicles.

 ph34r wrote:
That's quite nice. Not my cup of tea but very retro.

Has anyone done a conversion for the duneriders yet? I still hate it, but I would be interested in turning back to my AdMech to add some useful vehicles.

I personally love its look but ive seen some people do decent conversions from rhinos

 ph34r wrote:
That's quite nice. Not my cup of tea but very retro.

Has anyone done a conversion for the duneriders yet? I still hate it, but I would be interested in turning back to my AdMech to add some useful vehicles.

I am currently making one from a Rhino.

https://imgur.com/gallery/jkvFIqE

https://imgur.com/gallery/OHQEbzM

Ill still be adding layered armorplates like the dunecrawlers have, a lot of cables. Further Ideas welcomed.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/31/growing-your-games-night/

new admech release...

 The Forgemaster wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/31/growing-your-games-night/

new admech release...

What, the servitor and priest? Haven't they been out for a couple months now?