Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes

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**Ideasweasel**

@yoda, you mentioned knights. Did you find this really easy as a match up? I’ve not played against knights using my Admech but we certainly have the tools to drop them

**Suzuteo**

So I was wondering what everyone thinks of 4x Dakkabots vs. 3x Crawlers and 8x Infiltrators.

4x Dakkabots (440)
+Massive damage output; strong against everything
+Tough (T7, 4++, W6)
+Can move and shoot before being rooted
=36" range; needs Manipulus in certain matchups
-BS4; needs Cawl
-Need dice app or it will take FOREVER
-Has to be rooted to maximize output
-Once rooted, vulnerable to melee
-CP hungry

OR

3x Icarus Crawler (336)
+Strong anti-air
+48" range
+Weapons good against a variety of targets
+Very tough (T7, 5++ RR1, W11)
+Can move and shoot
-BS4 against ground; needs Cawl
-Can't kill a Knight or non-flying tank
-Unfriendly for clocked games

8x Infiltrators (144)
+Strong anti-infantry
+BS3 that can get +1 to hit
+Deep strike
+Decent counter-charger if you hide them
-Very fragile
-Can't kill a Knight or tank

Basically, my dilemma is between the knockout power of Dakkabots versus the efficiency and durability of Crawlers plus a deep strike tool that can use Wrath of Mars.

**Agamembar**

Suzuteo wrote:
So I was wondering what everyone thinks of 4x Dakkabots vs. 3x Crawlers and 8x Infiltrators.

3x Icarus Crawler (336)
+Strong anti-air
+48" range
+Weapons good against a variety of targets
+Very tough (T7, 5++ RR1, W11)
+Can move and shoot
-BS4 against ground; needs Cawl
-Can't kill a Knight or non-flying tank
-Unfriendly for clocked games

8x Infiltrators (144)
+Strong anti-infantry
+BS3 that can get +1 to hit
+Deep strike
+Decent counter-charger if you hide them
-Very fragile
-Can't kill a Knight or tank

Basically, my dilemma is between the knockout power of Dakkabots versus the efficiency and durability of Crawlers plus a deep strike tool that can use Wrath of Mars.

I'm a massive fan of the crawlers, they just take so much to bring down went you've say Cawl healing them up and the invun works in melee which is nice just in case they get caught, while they might not bring a knight down people tend to get distracted and focus on them once they see them steadily strip wounds off every turn and pair with some Lasstriders. What to do mean by Unfriendly for clocked games?

**Ideasweasel**

@aga - Rolling each Icarus individually is a time sink.

At least with dakka bots you can use the dice app in one go

I often face this dilemma and I am not sure what my conclusions are

**Octovol**

So um, the new marine impulsor transport is only 6 points more than a dunerider... Did I read that right!?

**Vineheart01**

eh its closer to 100pts after adding things to it. Its base cost is 75, not its end price.
Its still surprisingly cheap. Though not as surprisingly cheap as that stupid "not a dread battle suit" which is only 5-10pts more than a robot.

**Yoda79**

knights are my favorite matchup and usually end up 20-0

Same goes for renegades etc etc even talos even Bullgreens.

The plasma Ryza specialist just kill em all if you got 9 ryzaprhons.

the problem

a) the investment you need to do both in points and cp.
b) ruin dakkaboits but still take them so 330 minimum average spend point for ryza bots.
c) Cp intensive
d) list specific.

But trust me when i say 9 ryza plasma destroyers kill anything you point at them. how will you do it efectively i dont know beyond knights.

And tbh i v tried yesterday also 10 plasma vanguards they trully rock.

As for suzuteo .This exactly what i have done .

Added the new tanks 2 onagers and infiltrators. So far they are better than Robots.

**Suzuteo**

My last list really struggled against Knights at GKO. But to be fair, I misplayed the beginning and lost my Dragoons right off the bat. Very bad.

In any case, future lists are going to use Drills and Plasma Calivers.

@Yoda79
My issue is that Destroyer lists pretty much auto-lose to Triptides. I experienced it myself in playtesting, and I talked to the guy who was Top 4 in Masters, and even he said his worst matchup was Tau, both the Triptides and Tripkeel lists. You cannot chew through 30 Shield Drones in one round of shooting, and Tau are masters of focusing down one single unit at a time.

Yeah, so maybe it is me and my weird local meta, but I rely a lot on the Robots because Knights and Tau are the most popular armies in my area. Icarus Crawlers are great against Eldar, Tau, and Custodes, but they can't fill the anti-tank role. That is why I bring Las Striders instead.

I wonder if I can get away with Las Striders and Grators... hm... EDIT: Probably not. Won't have a good way to handle hordes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had an amusing thought and went with it. I realized that the Master's City list never had access to Grators. What if we introduced them in order to help remove Shield Drones?

Turns out that the Mathhammer doesn't work out. Shield Drones are actually quite hard a nut to crack. 3x Grators kill around 4 on average dice?

Spoiler:

**ImperialDwarf**

Yesterday i played vs pure BA list.... It's was worst game in last 2 months... 1 smash cpt killed .... crusader... cawl... 4 dakka robots.... onnager...
How we can hold lists who charge turn 1 or have overwatch ignore?

**0XFallen**

ImperialDwarf wrote:
Yesterday i played vs pure BA list.... It's was worst game in last 2 months... 1 smash cpt killed .... crusader... cawl... 4 dakka robots.... onnager...
How we can hold lists who charge turn 1 or have overwatch ignore?

Cheap screening, breachers, Duneriders

**ImperialDwarf**

0XFallen wrote:
ImperialDwarf wrote:
Yesterday i played vs pure BA list.... It's was worst game in last 2 months... 1 smash cpt killed .... crusader... cawl... 4 dakka robots.... onnager...
How we can hold lists who charge turn 1 or have overwatch ignore?

Cheap screening, breachers, Duneriders

10 breachers was killed turn 1. How cheap screen help vs jump packs?

**Suzuteo**

Against BA, you have to turtle in a corner and survive turn one. Have your screen and countercharger absorb the blow; if you go first, you have a huge advantage in Acquisition at all Costs. Then absolutely murder 1000 points worth of models turn two; BA are not known for being durable on a point by point basis. Regain control of the board after this.

EDIT: Another key tactic: Place embarked transports in front of your gunline; at least 1" and a hair away. (Make sure your opponent is playing with 32mm Space Marines.) This way, after they kill your transport, the following occurs:

1) Roll for explosion
2) Emergency disembark your troops
3) Remove transport
4) Enemy consolidates into your disembarked troops, but cannot fight them because they did not declare a charge against them

**ImperialDwarf**

Suzuteo wrote:
Another key tactic: Place embarked transports in front of your gunline; at least 1" and a hair away. (Make sure your opponent is playing with 32mm Space Marines.) This way, after they kill your transport, the following occurs:

1) Roll for explosion
2) Emergency disembark your troops
3) Remove transport
4) Enemy consolidates into your disembarked troops, but cannot fight them because they did not declare a charge against them

I will try after i get dunerider box. 2-3 weeks until they delivered to Russia :(

**0XFallen**

I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.

**Suzuteo**

0XFallen wrote:
I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.

I drilled holes into the back of all of the primary guns and put magnets in them. I then took a magnet and attached it to a sprue bit. I filled in a portion of the Destroyer's weapon "box" with green stuff. I then pushed the magnet to the appropriate depth with the gun while it is magnetically attached to the sprue bit. (Obviously, don't try to detach the gun bit until the green stuff dries.)

I magnetized the left arm joint.

Here is a photo of my Kataphron, without any guns and posed so you can see the magnets:

Not sure if there is a better way, but this lets me mounted all of the guns no problem.

**0XFallen**

Suzuteo wrote:
0XFallen wrote:
I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.

I drilled holes into the back of all of the primary guns and put magnets in them. I then took a magnet and attached it to a sprue bit. I filled in a portion of the Destroyer's weapon "box" with green stuff. I then pushed the magnet to the appropriate depth with the gun while it is magnetically attached to the sprue bit. (Obviously, don't try to detach the gun bit until the green stuff dries.)

I magnetized the left arm joint.

Here is a photo of my Kataphron, without any guns and posed so you can see the magnets:

Not sure if there is a better way, but this lets me mounted all of the guns no problem.

Ty, I will try this.
Can you also switch between breacher and destroyer weapons with this? Did you use the Big destroyers Weapon case for the breachers too?

**Ideasweasel**

0XFallen wrote:
I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.

Just back from an ITC doubles tournament,

Beth Taylor Current Admech front runner was there and she has convinced me to pick up a few boxes. Was quite interesting to hear how her list works.

Shame the Admech range isn’t the best value for money. I’m also a massive fan of the drills. Man they can shred knights when they get in

**Hulksmash**

Ideasweasel wrote:
0XFallen wrote:
I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.

Shame the Admech range isn’t the best value for money.

I just had this conversation yesterday with a buddy. I realized that Admech in general is one of the worst dollar to points ration armies in the game. And that was before our transports and new tanks. When I think of how much pretty much all of my other armies cost it blows me away how much retail cost is currently on the table when I play 2k. It's well over .50 a point.

Oh well. Getting ready for nova currently. Gonna see if I can nab that top pure Admech spot till LVO. The L's at Nova have made me abandon my robots in favor of more mobility. So we'll see how it goes.

**the_Grak**

@0XFallen:

Spoiler:

I used 5x1mm magnets on the shoulders and put 2x1mm magnets on the arms/weapons. I built all the plasma arms so I can't switch to grav but it only takes a second to switch from Breacher to Destroyer.

**Ideasweasel**

@Hulksmash, 50c per point...ouch that’s rough

I like my robots but find they don’t work, I get too used to castling up and then I lack the board control. It’s like they encourage that playstyle out of me and it’s costly.

What kind of units are you thinking for nova?

**Hulksmash**

I can't quite give up my Cawl yet so I'm using a pure mars list below split into 2 battalions;

Cawl
Manipulus
2xEngineseers
2x9 Vanguard
4x3 Breachers
10 Fulgurites
2x4 Servitors
3 Mortar Tanks
3 Icarus Walkers
4 Transports

Generally my robots do major work for me. But with the two giant L's at nova getting a good firing spot for them is hard. So I went to a fully on the move army that can shift around the large LoS blockers.

**Suzuteo**

0XFallen wrote:
Ty, I will try this.
Can you also switch between breacher and destroyer weapons with this? Did you use the Big destroyers Weapon case for the breachers too?

Yeah. I cut off a bit of the Heavy Arc Rifle, and It goes in fine. There's some blank space around it, but it looks natural.

Ideasweasel wrote:
0XFallen wrote:
I got a 3 boxes of kataphron, they have so many cool options which. DId you guys magnetize them all?
I think no one really cares about the additional platings, but I would like to field every weapon type if I wanted to.

Just back from an ITC doubles tournament,

Beth Taylor Current Admech front runner was there and she has convinced me to pick up a few boxes. Was quite interesting to hear how her list works.

Shame the Admech range isn’t the best value for money. I’m also a massive fan of the drills. Man they can shred knights when they get in

I'm curious, how did she explain it? It's basically big blobs of highly efficient, durable Kataphrons with Cawl rerolls backed by anti-Titan Krast Crusader, anti-flyer/infantry Auto Striders, and anti-character snipers, right? Park them ontop of objectives and hold your way to victory?

Hulksmash wrote:
I can't quite give up my Cawl yet so I'm using a pure mars list below split into 2 battalions;

Cawl
Manipulus
2xEngineseers
2x9 Vanguard
4x3 Breachers
10 Fulgurites
2x4 Servitors
3 Mortar Tanks
3 Icarus Walkers
4 Transports

Generally my robots do major work for me. But with the two giant L's at nova getting a good firing spot for them is hard. So I went to a fully on the move army that can shift around the large LoS blockers.

What sorts of L's are you talking about? Are they really large enough to block out more than two objectives? (I find that as long as Robots control two objectives in addition to the one in your deployment on a five objective map, they just about force your opponent to come out to fight.) I think maybe in the future, I will have to switch to 3x Crawlers or 4x Las Strider (or 5x Auto Strider) out of practical necessity. But man do I hate the thought, Robots good at practically everything.

Those are a lot of transports. No wonder your cost per point is so high. I personally am doing that Mars + Ryza/Lucius setup. S6 gunline with deep-striking S8 shooting.

**U02dah4**

Well I'm happy finally managed a 2nd place (No losses) with my admech

Spoiler:

**Suzuteo**

Congratulations! 1750 points? How many players at this tourney?

This is a neat list. Dragoons and a Crusader plus tanks. Light on CP, but if you are taking Ion Bulwark, you pretty much only are spending on Doctrina.

Questions:
1) How do you get along with so few infantry?
2) How are the Hoplites without a transport?
3) And why not Krast Crusader?

**Hulksmash**

Suzuteo wrote:

Spoiler:

Hulksmash wrote:
I can't quite give up my Cawl yet so I'm using a pure mars list below split into 2 battalions;

Cawl
Manipulus
2xEngineseers
2x9 Vanguard
4x3 Breachers
10 Fulgurites
2x4 Servitors
3 Mortar Tanks
3 Icarus Walkers
4 Transports

Generally my robots do major work for me. But with the two giant L's at nova getting a good firing spot for them is hard. So I went to a fully on the move army that can shift around the large LoS blockers.

What sorts of L's are you talking about? Are they really large enough to block out more than two objectives? (I find that as long as Robots control two objectives in addition to the one in your deployment on a five objective map, they just about force your opponent to come out to fight.) I think maybe in the future, I will have to switch to 3x Crawlers or 4x Las Strider (or 5x Auto Strider) out of practical necessity. But man do I hate the thought, Robots good at practically everything.

Those are a lot of transports. No wonder your cost per point is so high. I personally am doing that Mars + Ryza/Lucius setup. S6 gunline with deep-striking S8 shooting.

Essentially take a look at the nova mission packet. They have a layout there that's the same for every table but it's 2 12"x12" bases that have 8"+ high walls on 2 of the 4 sides. They're deployed stradling the 4' table edge midline with a foot between them. Objectives are deployed in various ways but what it means is that outside of hammer and anvil there is a lot of LoS that's impaired. So robots tend to be bad in the Nova format.

**Suzuteo**

Oh damn... yeah, that is not good for Kastelans. If they force you to turtle in anything but H&A, they just won't be contributing in rounds 3-6 probably.

Have you considered Striders instead of Crawlers? They are less durable, but they are faster and pack a bigger punch (both of them).

Also, how about sniper rifles? Space Marines and Chaos both rely a lot on characters now.

**U02dah4**

Suzuteo wrote:
Congratulations! 1750 points? How many players at this tourney?

This is a neat list. Dragoons and a Crusader plus tanks. Light on CP, but if you are taking Ion Bulwark, you pretty much only are spending on Doctrina.

Questions:
1) How do you get along with so few infantry?
2) How are the Hoplites without a transport?
3) And why not Krast Crusader?

Just a 30 player I was mostly useing it as a test for a major im going to next month. (Although thats 2000 so im adding 2 kastellan robots and a couple of hoplites)

1) The vanguards mostly sat on backfield objectives out of los i didnt feel i needed more infantry for that but I would sacrifice a disintegrators or 2 as a screen in some games in others the hoplites were enough. (Given the knight and dragoons would block my opponents advance)

2) hoplites were brilliant in R1 they screened a charge from the chaos version of a knight gallant and 5 MW it. Vs aeldari on dawn of war i baited their bikes into chargeing my crawlers to tie them up then counter charged the hoplites from a ruin next door. Their weakest game was vs a custodes/guard 3 telemon, orion and -1to hit banner list that sat far back but even there they managed to hold a mid table objective long enough to get me an extra pt. Being infantry light my list needed a blocker unit.

3) I debated the krast crusader but decided being CP light I wanted Ion bulwark vs most opponents. Having play tested i consistently defeat 3 knights without krast so I felt adding krast was win more in those games. While the freeblade bonus combined with endless fury had the potential to help more in the more difficult games and if your not taking the krast relic warlord trait then your not losing much by making it a freeblade

**ph34r**

Anyone tried converting the new Primaris Impulsor into a Dunerider? It has all the heavy stubbers and stuff, maybe put the torpedo prow bit on the front, and the turret on top?

As far as hover vehicles go I really would like some method of hovering other than 20th century hovercraft.

**VladimirHerzog**

So in the release article for the new blackstone fortress expansion, theres a really short introduction for the characters and our tech priest got this pretty vague line :

The Tech-Priest, Daedalosus, can designate a hostile, making it easier for the party to make successful attacks against them

so he may have a built-in eye of xi-lexum -ish ability?

**dadamowsky**

Suzuteo wrote:
Oh damn... yeah, that is not good for Kastelans. If they force you to turtle in anything but H&A, they just won't be contributing in rounds 3-6 probably.

Have you considered Striders instead of Crawlers? They are less durable, but they are faster and pack a bigger punch (both of them).

Also, how about sniper rifles? Space Marines and Chaos both rely a lot on characters now.

Honestly, snipers are a gamble with the tables and dense terrain meta IMO. They have range, but a total immobility kills their performance for me each time I try to field them. Ever since Stygies Infiltration nerf I had maybe 2 or 3 matches where having snipers was actually beneficial - each other time I tried to field them they were simply outLoSed.