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Well, when I did use them, I would basically advance them if they had nothing to shoot. The key though is that they make it harder for opponents to move characters around the board.

But yeah, unless you have a tall building in your deployment, it's harder to justify them. A Vindicare might be better because they are harder to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another concept list. Hammer and anvil style, as before. Big static firebase that wants to camp on objectives combined with three different deep striking options (anti-T3, anti-T4, anti-T7). A lot less concerned about Knights, if my friends' Space Marine lists are anything to go by. It's so easy to kill a Knight now...

VladimirHerzog wrote:
So in the release article for the new blackstone fortress expansion, theres a really short introduction for the characters and our tech priest got this pretty vague line :

The Tech-Priest, Daedalosus, can designate a hostile, making it easier for the party to make successful attacks against them

so he may have a built-in eye of xi-lexum -ish ability?

Pretty sure he just has an omnispex. That's what it reminds me of.

 ph34r wrote:
Anyone tried converting the new Primaris Impulsor into a Dunerider? It has all the heavy stubbers and stuff, maybe put the torpedo prow bit on the front, and the turret on top?

As far as hover vehicles go I really would like some method of hovering other than 20th century hovercraft.

I was actually thinking about converting Repulsors, since they are A LOT cheaper. I actually love the hovercraft as transports. But not as much as tanks.

My only concern is that the Repulsors seem much wider than the Grators. The height of the hull without the flying base and the length (counting the Grator fins) is comparable.

Anyone got a side-by-side comparison by any chance?

But yeah, if Impulsors come down to the same price point, I would consider it. Might just move the turret over.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Anyone tried converting the new Primaris Impulsor into a Dunerider? It has all the heavy stubbers and stuff, maybe put the torpedo prow bit on the front, and the turret on top?

As far as hover vehicles go I really would like some method of hovering other than 20th century hovercraft.

I was actually thinking about converting Repulsors, since they are A LOT cheaper. I actually love the hovercraft as transports. But not as much as tanks.

My only concern is that the Repulsors seem much wider than the Grators. The height of the hull without the flying base and the length (counting the Grator fins) is comparable.

Anyone got a side-by-side comparison by any chance?

But yeah, if Impulsors come down to the same price point, I would consider it. Might just move the turret over.

wait, how are repulsors cheaper than skorpi? also, the repulsor has a much bigger footpring on the battlefield sp converting while keeping the general size correct might be hard

I was operating under the assumption that:
1. The Impulsor is cheaper than the Repulsor
2. The Impulsor is smaller than the Repulsor

VladimirHerzog wrote:
wait, how are repulsors cheaper than skorpi? also, the repulsor has a much bigger footpring on the battlefield sp converting while keeping the general size correct might be hard

They come up on eBay for really cheap once and awhile. Not sure why. And you're right. They're almost the size of a Land Raider. Much wider and blockier in silhouette. Guess I should just wait for the Impulsor.

Is it a dual kit?
GW seems to have a hardon for overpricing dual kits, even if very little is different between the two options.
*glares at the Tau Breacher box*

Alright. so in the most recent escalation article, were given this description of tech priest Daedalosus.

You are technoarcheologist Daedalosus. They say that one man’s archeotrash is another man’s archeotreasure, and that’s certainly true for you. Who knows what secrets you’ll uncover in the Blackstone Fortress?

In the questions before, one associated with him mentions the use of an omniscan. so possible new wargear?

Yeah, could be cool. The tech-priest manipulus was cool, but it seems like people don't consider him worth the points often?

I think I will convert some dune riders out of the sector mechanicus incinerator/furnace bit. Something along the lines of Rey from the new Star Wars' hoverbike, with the levitation discs of the Matrix human aircraft.

 ph34r wrote:
Yeah, could be cool. The tech-priest manipulus was cool, but it seems like people don't consider him worth the points often?

I think I will convert some dune riders out of the sector mechanicus incinerator/furnace bit. Something along the lines of Rey from the new Star Wars' hoverbike, with the levitation discs of the Matrix human aircraft.

The manipulus is one of the things that made admech so much better, i'm pretty sure most people on here feel like he is worth his points, hes such a good force multiplier.

A conversion like that could be cool, make sure to post pictures if you end up doing it!

@VladimirHerzog
I actually remember having to argue with people for including him. A lot of people were of the opinion that he is not worth the points, but I thought that he was unique value. Every list I posted since he released has him just about. I would rather have him than a Dominus in a non-Mars list even.

Definitely would rather a Manipulus over additional Dominius.
That +1 move + charge + advance alone is phenomenal but dunno how many times ive had my guns in range purely because of the boosted range. And i dont have many games under my belt with admech.

Suzuteo wrote:@VladimirHerzog
I actually remember having to argue with people for including him. A lot of people were of the opinion that he is not worth the points, but I thought that he was unique value. Every list I posted since he released has him just about. I would rather have him than a Dominus in a non-Mars list even.

Oh, on release for sure people were clamoring for a pts drop, i was speaking in how his presence was these days

Vineheart01 wrote:Definitely would rather a Manipulus over additional Dominius.
That +1 move + charge + advance alone is phenomenal but dunno how many times ive had my guns in range purely because of the boosted range. And i dont have many games under my belt with admech.

yeah, before we got the dunerider, the manipulus is how i made my LGS fear the fulgurite alpha strike, being able to threathen a turn one charge is a super strong ability, and you can always go back to being a range buffer for your tanks later in the game.

Yeah, I think there was a bait and switch. Everyone was expecting 60-70 points because of their community material.

Does AdMech melee still work in the age of Disco Lords?

Personally, I am still trying to work out what combination of Mars Gunline + Ryza/Lucius DS (+ Knight or Assassin?) works best.


A Knight makes the list super well-rounded; it's a fast and durable DC that offers really strong anti-W10/Titan as well as serving as a melee threat.

It also has a huge advantage in cutting down clock time.

Thing is, it has to be protected or kept really far back to avoid going splat on turn one. In which case, it gives up Kingslayer. Breachers do a good job of this. But then I find myself wondering if it's worth it to invest so much in force multipliers if the job of the gunline is to keep the Knight alive. All of those deep-striking elements likely won't benefit from the force multipliers at all. But cutting them makes this list too defensive.

Which probably leads me to a list like U02dah4's. A Stygies Battalion with Dragoons, tanks, and a Knight.

Alternatively, I can drop the Knight for double Drill combos. Decisions, decisions.

RIP Onagers now that we have the Skorpius?

I guess both can't fit in a list with that many deep strike elements.

I'm not the best player here but I've never found myself needing the range boost on my units through the Manipulus. Every game all I ever use is the movement buff. I guess I play a more mobile FW but still I feel like I'm missing something sometimes. Maybe it's just the terrain my area uses. That said even just the movement and the flat 2d flamer has made him feel well worth his points. I like that he's an HQ that does something besides just rerolls, the game desperately needs more unique HQ's like that.

On the Onager situation, the more I use them the more I'm getting indifferent to them. They're incredibly tough point for point and... That's about it for a non Mars FW. The Neutron laser is way too few shots and way too swingy. The Icarus takes a long time to roll and is pretty useless if the opponent doesn't have fly units and you don't want to waste protector doctrina on them. The other weapons it can take are terrible. If I want AT, I want to take lastriders (seriously thank you to everyone who recommended them, they're amazing). If I want anti horde RoF, I bring Kastellans. If I want jack of all trades kill em all unit I want destroyers/striders. I just struggle to find a use for Onagers besides a screen ironically, and even there the Skorpius is superior. I know they get better with Cawl but when you don't run Cawl they're just a bit underwhelming. I feel like by the time you have Kastellans, lastriders, destroyers, and Skorpius, every base you could want to cover is covered and then some, and the Onager just doesn't have a niche left to fill.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'm not the best player here but I've never found myself needing the range boost on my units through the Manipulus. Every game all I ever use is the movement buff. I guess I play a more mobile FW but still I feel like I'm missing something sometimes. Maybe it's just the terrain my area uses. That said even just the movement and the flat 2d flamer has made him feel well worth his points. I like that he's an HQ that does something besides just rerolls, the game desperately needs more unique HQ's like that.

On the Onager situation, the more I use them the more I'm getting indifferent to them. They're incredibly tough point for point and... That's about it for a non Mars FW. The Neutron laser is way too few shots and way too swingy. The Icarus takes a long time to roll and is pretty useless if the opponent doesn't have fly units and you don't want to waste protector doctrina on them. The other weapons it can take are terrible. If I want AT, I want to take lastriders (seriously thank you to everyone who recommended them, they're amazing). If I want anti horde RoF, I bring Kastellans. If I want jack of all trades kill em all unit I want destroyers/striders. I just struggle to find a use for Onagers besides a screen ironically, and even there the Skorpius is superior. I know they get better with Cawl but when you don't run Cawl they're just a bit underwhelming. I feel like by the time you have Kastellans, lastriders, destroyers, and Skorpius, every base you could want to cover is covered and then some, and the Onager just doesn't have a niche left to fill.

I disagree. The Onager provides quality shots with the icarus in a low cost, high defense model. It is better with Mars but honestly I'd still run it with stygies and a dominus. That still almost 60% hits with 10 quality shots on non-flyers. And with eldar planes & tanks and sm flying tanks it'll have solid targets most games. With Cawl they're amazing. Without cawl they're just good. Autocannon striders are the most comparable and while they win out with wounds they have less shots, less defense, cost more, and the same bs if they move. The Onager is mostly about if you have the heavy support slot to take them and skorpius. Until we see a caladius nerf you're crazy not to be running them.

@MrMoustaffa
Crawlers are definitely still relevant. They are tough; mobile; strong against any flyer as well as ground infantry if they are Mars; don't require CP; and have large bases for blocking charges.

@Hulksmash
Actually, Las Striders are the closest equivalent. Autocannons are actually not great against Caladius or most flying vehicles for that matter, especially Wave Serpents.

4 shots, wounding on 4s, 2 damage is essentially 2 shots, wounding on 3s, 3 damage. That's below average dice for the damage, without any command reroll (which I tend to do for any roll of 2 or less).

I think Autocannons only really do well against Razorwings. And most of the non-monstrous battlesuits and jetbikes. But we have a ton of S6 shooting for that.

Though one advantage of Autocannons is that they are 10 points per wound as opposed to 13.33.

It's also 33% more expensive. You can get can get 1.5 las striders for 7-10pts more than a dunecrawler. That's 3 lascannon shots that hit on 4's if you move. So equal hitting against ground and way worse hitting against flyers/flying units.Also autocannons are good against anything eldar or dark eldar that isn't a wave serpent. Against caladius point for point it's 6 damage from autocannons and 2d6 (avg 7) with lascannons. Difference being nearly 6 wounds more to the autocannons.

336pts of icarus crawlers is just 4 las striders. On what planet is 8 lascannon shots better than 12 autocannon, 15 ignore cover shots, 3 missiles, and 9 stubber shots. For the targets you shoot on the move the crawler is hands down a better choice, especially once negative hit modifers come into play. This isn't including a better save, more wounds, better invul with rerolls, and higher toughness.

TLDR;

Icarus crawlers definitely have a place. Especially with the increase in terrain you tend to see now which impacts the robots benefits.

I beleive your forgetting the increased durability of the dunecrawlers its also a huge factor

Im taking 3 neutron crawlers and 3 disintegrators i see no reason not to take both

U02dah4 wrote:
I beleive your forgetting the increased durability of the dunecrawlers its also a huge factor

Im taking 3 neutron crawlers and 3 disintegrators i see no reason not to take both

I don't really find this increased durability much of a help. In my meta at least, where every shooting army is ready to take down at least a single knight a turn. I'm losing 1-2 Onagers a turn, depending on the opponent - a single large chunk of wounds is very susceptible to focused dd6 weapons fire.

@Hulksmash
Come on, we both know that's an unfair comparison. You're going to be using Doctrina on Striders. The fact that they can be squadroned and Crawlers can't is the biggest thing going for them.

Actually, no. The math clearly favors Las Striders over Auto Striders against all Eldar aircraft aside from Razorwings, both in points per wound and chance to kill.

T6 is just as durable as T7 against the standard S8 tank weapon.

I didn't say Lascannons are better than Icarus Arrays against Caladius. I said that they are better than Autocannons. Also didn't say Crawlers did not have a place. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

But if you want the actual Mathammer, against a Caladius, with Doctrina and Cawl rerolls:
4x Auto: 7.78w, 30.85714286 ppw
3x Las: 9.07w, 26.44897959 ppw
3x Icarus: 12.48w, 26.44897959 ppw

Las Striders perform identically against Icarus Arrays, which is surprising. But the Crawlers are more durable. The Las Striders also move much faster and perform way better against non-flying vehicles.

+1T +1SV +1 Inv +rr1's of Inv

Is a huge difference and if they are shooting at the dunecrawler they are not shooting at something else.

If i only lose 240pts a turn im happy

Going to be honest, the thing I hate the most about them is that I have to keep three of them close together and inside of Cawl's bubble. They are really fat!

On that note, this is my current tourney list:

Basically, a modified version of the Summer Slaughter list with 12x Breachers for screening and anti-vehicle volume fire instead of snipers and a third Crawler. Also a Solar Flare Enginseer, though a part of me is considering making that Ryza for one less deployment drop and taking up Anzion's Pseudogenetor or something.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Going to be honest, the thing I hate the most about them is that I have to keep three of them close together and inside of Cawl's bubble. They are really fat!

Yeah, that is infuriating to me. Leaving them off the base looks bad in my opinion but makes them objectively way better.
I rebased my Duencrawlers from 130mm to 100mm. Hopefully nobody takes exception to that, given that I don't have to base them at all technically.

arent you required to base them if they were supplied with a base?

Holy crap that black stone fortress sklitarii is actually awesome!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/23/taking-it-beyond-the-fortressgw-homepage-post-1/

Mmmmm....me adding that techpriest into my list 100%

Octovol wrote:
Holy crap that black stone fortress sklitarii is actually awesome!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/23/taking-it-beyond-the-fortressgw-homepage-post-1/

Indeed, I forsee many lists taking him - an aura of +1 to hit each turn, yes please...

Even if its restricted to a single target...holy crap thats brutally good.
That beast would definitely sit around your choice of backfield firepower and just go "Kill that one next"

Doesnt look too terribly hard to kitbash him out of a ranger alpha either.