BLUF: I am saving all my army builds here for easy access. I manage to already win the 1k tournament I was apart of. Now just trying things out at different point levels.
I have a 1k tournament this weekend that I am thinking of bringing the new daemons too and giving them a whirl. I have the following models available.
18 Daemonettes
18 Pink Horrors (some have been modeled to be heralds if I so choose)
30 Blood Letters (same as above)
29 Plague Bearers (1 herald equivalent)
1 Epidemius on palanquin (he himself isnt runable anymore but a nurgle herald could be used with the same loadout and same points but gets better buffs)
1 Great Unclean One
1 Keeper of Secrets
1 Masque
1 slannesh herald
2 Tzeentch Heralds
2 Nurgle Heralds (palaquin optional)
2 Blood Thirsters
4 Daemon princes
1 Lord of Change
1 soul grinder
9 flamers of Tzeentch
6 screamers of Tzeentch
3 Beast of Nurgle
5 Blood Crushers
So far I was considering the following list:
Blood Thirster 300pts
Exalted reward(depending what I get I am most likely trading this for a hellforged artefact=portalglyph) I think it will be fun and if played right could really help on objective missions; Greater Rewards (The only one i dont need is unbreakable hide).
Herald of Tzeentch 160pts
Exalted Locus of Conjuration; Exalted rewards(most likely gonna trade the result out for the Grimoire of True names to try and keep the horrors alive or weaken the enemy);mastery level 3
Herald of Khorne 120
Juggernaut; Greater Locus of Fury;
Troops:
19 pink horrors 215pts (not sure if I want MSU or one big unit to maximise the shooting and survivability. )
Including Iridescent horror with 1 greater reward... might take the weapon to give the model some killing power if I get charged
20 Blood letters of Khorne 205pts
Blood reaper upgrade(had 5 extra points)
Total Pts: 1000
I know its a little upgrade heavy and low on troops but I plan to spawn troops with the artifact and I honestly think upgrades with the heralds is going to be the way to go in this book. Additionally, I am curious how the powers will work as force multipliers for the army. Let me know your thoughts and opinions please and thanks in advance. I am leaning more towards running blood letters and horrors over the plague bearers because they arent painted to standard yet and if I want them to hold objectives I need only spawn them .
I think in smaller games it is best take good amount of troops instead of take expensive HQ is better. but in saying that the blood thirster is big unit on the board and it will get shoot at the most with the biggest guns, also lacking any anti Armour weapons.
The Blood Thirster will make a great gun magnet but you could run into trouble with a list heavy in sniper/poison attacks. I agree with sekhemet that you may need to focus more on scoring units and you might consider playing some of your flamers and cutting down on the HQ points to deal with mobs.
i play daemons and just have made a 1000 point list for Tournament that i am playing in i have 2 heralds and the skulltaker as my HQ and i will put them in with smaller daemons to surprise them my larger targets i have taken 2 soulgrinders. and will be testing that list in a few days.
sekhemet wrote:I think in smaller games it is best take good amount of troops instead of take expensive HQ is better. but in saying that the blood thirster is big unit on the board and it will get shoot at the most with the biggest guns, also lacking any anti Armour weapons.
The thirster is my only real anti ait threat and is my heavy hitter plus if he gets a 4+ fnp there won't be too much that can kill him. As for more troops that is what the artefact is for on a 4+ every phase I get some free spawned troops.
jamese wrote:The Blood Thirster will make a great gun magnet but you could run into trouble with a list heavy in sniper/poison attacks. I agree with sekhemet that you may need to focus more on scoring units and you might consider playing some of your flamers and cutting down on the HQ points to deal with mobs.
Flamers got nerfed hard. I am finding it hard to justify fielding them. I could a poison army giving my army hell but haven't seen de in almost a year. I think maybe one or two players if that took them to the indy open. Though it is something to consider. I hope the thirster can draw fire off the blood letters and give me time to get into combat.
Keep in mind the grimoire while be useful to prolong the life of your own units can only weaken your enemy if they have a daemon in the unit being targeted.
Stick with your large units to maximize the powers of the loci and I would say if possible take more troops over upgraded hqs.
I do think that heralds are a key part to making your units more functional just be careful not to overspend on hqs to the detriment of your troops.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Other thing I would add, while I agree the portal glyph does sound cool you might be better off taking 2 greater rewards on the thirster to make it more survivable, if it died I can see the army as a whole just crumbling.
Ya, paying 30 points for a Portal Glyph and having it spawn teeny pink horror units that get 2D6 S5 AP4 shots is pretty darned cool.
If you roll a kill points mission, you could always take that +D3 attacks sword or the Grimoire of True Names (+2 to invul save of a daemon unit).
Mono-God is cool. People are down on Bloodcrushers, but I'm pretty sure they get into combat on turn 2 (on paper), you'd just need other threats on the board to distract your opponent.
Khorne Marked Soulgrinder is cheap and effective.
Khorne Heralds can make Bloodletters crazy scary.
If one of your princes can pass off as Khornate, you can have the following (pseudo) list.
Blood thirster (2 greater rewards or Exalted + Greater)
heralds to join blood letters or crushers (if you've got one on a juggy)
Xeriapt wrote: Keep in mind the grimoire while be useful to prolong the life of your own units can only weaken your enemy if they have a daemon in the unit being targeted.
Stick with your large units to maximize the powers of the loci and I would say if possible take more troops over upgraded hqs.
I do think that heralds are a key part to making your units more functional just be careful not to overspend on hqs to the detriment of your troops.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Other thing I would add, while I agree the portal glyph does sound cool you might be better off taking 2 greater rewards on the thirster to make it more survivable, if it died I can see the army as a whole just crumbling.
I like the portal as well but I am having issues finding a good way to model it. In addition, I think you are right on keeping the units big to maximize the force multipliers of the loci. I planned on using the grimoire exclusively for my army. Can you imagine a bloodletter unit with 3+ invuls?
I modified the list and I think its actually a little disgusting. The pink horrors can get prescience off. Then if they want they can shoot any target they want with 11 D6 S6 AP4 shots with re-rolls to hit.
You've got 2 fast and dangerous threats. You've got 3 troops. You've got a soulgrinder who can threaten flyers with skyfire shots, vehicles and infantry with his phelgm and almost anything with assault. This is a much more balanced list, which is what will do well in a tournament.
You've got 2 fast and dangerous threats. You've got 3 troops. You've got a soulgrinder who can threaten flyers with skyfire shots, vehicles and infantry with his phelgm and almost anything with assault. This is a much more balanced list, which is what will do well in a tournament.
I have weight of dice for fliers. Not expecting more then 2 at 1k points. As for troops I am bringing the glyph to spawn more after the game begins. The list does appear small but I think it will do real well. Ill let you know how well it does in a 4 rndr today.
Alright daemons are still a top tier army. Their mechanics just changed. I played my daemons today and they scored 98 of 120 possible battle points through four games. They would of done better had we had the time as one of the rounds he had 2 guys left that passed a 7 leadership twice and the game ended with them on the objective.
Herald of Tzeentch 150pts
Exalted Locus of Conjuration; Exalted rewards; mastery level 3
18 pink horrors 167pts - Iridescent Horror
This squad can put out 7d6 twinlinked S6 Ap4 shots a turn. Not to mention you can take up to 8 total heralds so you can boost them in multiple area's. A level 3 herald of tzeentch is only 95pts.
It's too early to declare them "top-tier" yet. People are still so unfamiliar with them that they probably didn't know what to do against your army. Give them some time to prove themselves. I see many armies that will give daemons potential problems. Ironically, the grey knights are one of them.
Herald of Tzeentch 150pts
Exalted Locus of Conjuration; Exalted rewards; mastery level 3
Skulltaker on juggernaut of Khorne 145pts
Herald of Tzeentch; Mastery Level 3 115pts
Herald of Slanesh (greater Reward; exalted loci of beguilement) 105pts
Troops:
18 pink horrors 162pts
12 Blood letters of Khorne 120pts
17 daemonettes 153pts
Total Pts: 1250
The result was another massacre. I have only lost one match so far, which ended up being kind of a draw as I won secondary and bonus points and he won primary, he had 2 guardsmen left on both objectives as they deep striked on his side. lol. So far the daemons have been amazing.
Plague drones... only run them in big blocks. They can be effective but usually work best if you can boost their saves. A few armies will struggle to deal with them. They are silly fast getting across the board.
Soul Grinders as it stands they have been disappointing every game i have run them. Sure they have the ability to sky fire but its only S7 and your better off just shooting horrors at fliers
Portalglyph is amazing for MSU (especially PB for objective holding and horrors for more psychic power shots)
Grimiore is high risk high reward. You can boost save by ++2 but can also --1 if you roll bad. It is nice but cant be depended on.
Greater rewards as a whole are better then exalted. The only reason to go exalted is to get the artefacts really. Unless you get rage and rampage for your thirster.
Same comment as I hae had before - you have over 800 points into HQ units. I would really consider running only 1 herald if you plan to run Fateweaver - maybe two.
I would also upgrade every unit to have a character - it reduces the chance to get Warp Stormed and an AP 2 weapon for 10 points is pretty good.
I agree on your other points, but I think you have really decked out a few characters.
Random Question - does Locus of Conjuration stack?
calypso2ts wrote: Same comment as I hae had before - you have over 800 points into HQ units. I would really consider running only 1 herald if you plan to run Fateweaver - maybe two.
I would also upgrade every unit to have a character - it reduces the chance to get Warp Stormed and an AP 2 weapon for 10 points is pretty good.
I agree on your other points, but I think you have really decked out a few characters.
Random Question - does Locus of Conjuration stack?
They are all force multipliers and I run the portalglyph for free troops in every list. I am still dropping 70 troops. They are just cheap. Just won with this list. Herald of Slannesh has auto include eternal blade.
And no only one loci in play at once and if two are the same level you can pick which applies... but that cant ever happen with different results lol. It is detailed at top of loci section.
calypso2ts wrote: Congrats on the win - they are force multipliers - but the problem is when you add in the cost of a herald the troops are not dirt cheap anymore.
At 130 points for a Herald you effectively add 6 ppm to the cost of each daemonette for example.
70 T3 bodies with cover equivalent saves does not seem super intimidating. Good call on the loci - I missed that part when I reread the section.
I take a grimiore and roll at least 4 times on divination trying to get forewarning... can essentially give +3 to saves to a squad.... Happened last game with grimiore and warp table 2++ daemonettes slaughtered 2 units mult-charging them. Though those results cant be expected it can be a real wrench in your opponents plans.
Ide like to hear more about how you ran the drones. I had a group of three take out 2 sniper squads, and a couple ig command squads with relative ease. Im debating on running them 7 strong or not.
Padr3hidalg0 wrote: Ide like to hear more about how you ran the drones. I had a group of three take out 2 sniper squads, and a couple ig command squads with relative ease. Im debating on running them 7 strong or not.
How reliable has the portalglyph been?
Portalglyph has been golden. I deploy it in my deployment zone usually behind terrain near an objective so it doesnt get shot. Important thing to note is it cant mishap. Not even off the board.
As for the drones. I ran them expensive when I ran them. Gave them all the 1 ID attack to help them kill off those multi-wound models everyone loves. It was 40 points to give it to them but can pay-off at times. It removes FnP from models. They can move up 12" turn 1 and then move in the assault phase 2d6. If I have it available I will either cast forewarning or the Grimiore on them and will also give them prescience if the threat of them being charged is high. Turn 2 they should hit your opponents lines. They wrecked some plague marines for me the other day and kept on moving through some plague bearers and another squad of plague marines.
buckero0 wrote: What is the purpose of 3 exalted rewards? Do you always take the portaglyph, grimoire and big blade? Or are yours hoping for rampage and rage one one?
Nearly always take eternal blade, Grimiore. As for the third it depends the mission on whether I need the portaglyph or not. Rampage is nice, I have gotten it for my thirsters a few times. However, with the slannesh herald they will most likely outnumber the enemy. Sometimes if I am playing against a heavy anti-psyker army such as eldar I dont mind taking the exalted shooting attack.
Heavy:
1 daemon prince (Nurgle, Warp Forged Armor, Greater Reward x 2, daemonic Flight, Mastery Level 3) 335pts
Total: 1747pts
This army is tough but a warp storm roll of 4 left to my plague bearers and herald of nurgle being slaughtered by orks in combat. The more I play the more it appears that fateweaver is an auto include. The daemon prince was very versatile with Telepathy: terrify and bio: Iron arm. Add this to the GUO casting enfeeble and I could really make a unit hate its life. The GUO charged and ork mob and he couldnt hurt me for the game. Was good to keep my warlord from being shot and locking up his scoring units.
Herald of Tzeentch 150pts
Exalted Locus of Conjuration; Exalted rewards; mastery level 3 (grimiore of true names)
Herald of Tzeentch 125pts
Exalted Locus of Conjuration; Exalted rewards; mastery level 3 (portalglyph)
Skulltaker on Juggernaut 145pts
Herald of Nurgle (greater locus of Fecundity, greater reward, ML2, Palaquin of Nurgle)180pts (i know I said avoid ML on non tzeentch heralds but giving this one a second shot.)
Heavy:
1 daemon prince (tzeentch, Warp Forged Armor, Greater Reward x 2, daemonic Flight, Mastery Level 3) 345pts
Total: 1747pts
I dont have the daemonettes in there because I simply dont have the models completed yet and I am prepping for another tournament. Going to see if I can win a 2nd consecutive local tournament with daemons.
I have had good success with using horrors with hearld with prescience and conjuartion locus to shoot down flyers.
over 16 horrors is 4d6 shots, and at least 2d6 from the herald is 6d6 shots hitting on 6's re rolling at str 6, that can take hurt any flyer, I have faced a total of 4 flyers, one doomscythe who was the other side of board to that horror squad, one dakka jet who fatey took care off with molten beam power and 3 helldrakes, one was glanced to death, other was shot in the rear and killed.
This is possibly going to be my 1k point list for a few double games i have coming up end of month at my local club
Lord of change, lesser reward, exalted reward
13 horrors
13 horrors
Soul grinder, phelgm and daemon of tzeentch (tempted to go for warpgaze though, at least i;ll have some ranged anti armour and can use warpgaze if i decide to shoot at flyers...
Daemon prince, wings armour mark of tzeentch, lvl 2 psyker, 2 greater rewards
Great Unclean One (Greater Reward x 2, Lesser Reward, Exalted Reward, ML 3) 290pts
I think this is in error, as the GUO may only take up to 50 points of rewards.
Indeed it was. I originally had exalted and when I dropped it for the 2x GR and 1xLR I forgot to delete it on here.
MarkyMark wrote:I have had good success with using horrors with hearld with prescience and conjuartion locus to shoot down flyers.
over 16 horrors is 4d6 shots, and at least 2d6 from the herald is 6d6 shots hitting on 6's re rolling at str 6, that can take hurt any flyer, I have faced a total of 4 flyers, one doomscythe who was the other side of board to that horror squad, one dakka jet who fatey took care off with molten beam power and 3 helldrakes, one was glanced to death, other was shot in the rear and killed.
This is possibly going to be my 1k point list for a few double games i have coming up end of month at my local club
Lord of change, lesser reward, exalted reward
13 horrors
13 horrors
Soul grinder, phelgm and daemon of tzeentch (tempted to go for warpgaze though, at least i;ll have some ranged anti armour and can use warpgaze if i decide to shoot at flyers...
Daemon prince, wings armour mark of tzeentch, lvl 2 psyker, 2 greater rewards
Might worry about too few troops unless taking portalglyph and those horrors are only S5 without the boost from the herald. I have found that for the cost warp gaze just isnt worth it unless you put prescience on him. He is only BS3 and will miss at least half the time. The other day he missed every time when i tried it.
Will be a toss up between portalglyph and grimoure based on mission and opponents, I know what you mean its a single shot weapon, so yes it will need prescience if I want to use it as a solid anti armour platform. Have yet to use the soul grinder, but in this list mainly there as anti air, the plhegm is ordanance so snap shooting with the harvester cannon..
Will create my own thread in a bit TK instead of cluttering up yours!
MarkyMark wrote: Will be a toss up between portalglyph and grimoure based on mission and opponents, I know what you mean its a single shot weapon, so yes it will need prescience if I want to use it as a solid anti armour platform. Have yet to use the soul grinder, but in this list mainly there as anti air, the plhegm is ordanance so snap shooting with the harvester cannon..
Will create my own thread in a bit TK instead of cluttering up yours!
Your fine. This is an daemon army list building thread. Not just TK Daemon Army List.
Bloodthirster - 2 x greater rewards
Keeper of Secrets - 2 x greater rewards
2 x Heralds of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
10 x Plaguebearers
10 x Flesh Hounds
10 x Flesh Hounds
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
I am still thrashing this list out atm. I am gonna drop the Heralds and bump up the Horror units for more dakka. Going to ditch the Keeper as well, too slow on foot.
Bloodthirster - 2 x greater rewards
Keeper of Secrets - 2 x greater rewards
2 x Heralds of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
10 x Plaguebearers
10 x Flesh Hounds
10 x Flesh Hounds
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
I am still thrashing this list out atm. I am gonna drop the Heralds and bump up the Horror units for more dakka. Going to ditch the Keeper as well, too slow on foot.
How do you get two greater deamons and three heralds at the same time?
Bloodthirster - 2 x greater rewards
Keeper of Secrets - 2 x greater rewards
2 x Heralds of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
10 x Plaguebearers
10 x Flesh Hounds
10 x Flesh Hounds
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
I am still thrashing this list out atm. I am gonna drop the Heralds and bump up the Horror units for more dakka. Going to ditch the Keeper as well, too slow on foot.
How do you get two greater deamons and three heralds at the same time?
No point total, but I assume he's at or over 2000, so he's using double FoC.
Mercer, if you remove the Keeper, what are you going to do with the DPs? I'm assuming you were using one of the greater rewards for a Lash of Despair. You'll have to give them Mark of Khorne, or move them to the HQ slot, which you should have room for if you're using double FoC.
How do you get two greater deamons and three heralds at the same time?
Double FOC, dude.
undertow wrote:
No point total, but I assume he's at or over 2000, so he's using double FoC.
Mercer, if you remove the Keeper, what are you going to do with the DPs? I'm assuming you were using one of the greater rewards for a Lash of Despair. You'll have to give them Mark of Khorne, or move them to the HQ slot, which you should have room for if you're using double FoC.
Is double FOC and it's a 2k list, though you do not need to have a 2k list on the dot to play double FOC. Rules say games of 2k .
The Princes will move to HQ choices, I won't be keeping the Heralds so all is good. And yes, one of the rewards is a lash.
Bloodthirster - 2 x greater rewards
Keeper of Secrets - 2 x greater rewards
2 x Heralds of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - locus of conjuration
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
10 x Plaguebearers
10 x Flesh Hounds
10 x Flesh Hounds
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, daemon of slaanesh & 2 x greater rewards
I am still thrashing this list out atm. I am gonna drop the Heralds and bump up the Horror units for more dakka. Going to ditch the Keeper as well, too slow on foot.
Yea I figure its a thread to talk exclusively on and about daemon list that people want to throw at other daemon players to view. I like the thirster. Hate the keeper. He is just to slow and vulnerable to too much attention. If you run a keeper he needs to be in an assault heavy army where your opponent has multiple turn 1 and 2 threats to deal with. I like the princes as well. They can really put some hurt on but not sure why your not taking advantage of their jack of all trade psychic abilities.
Also I am curious why flesh hounds over seekers? Seekers are faster and have more attacks and are generally all round better. This doesn't even include that they are also 3 points cheaper per model. Finally what armies have you run this against? How have the duel princes been working for you?
MarkyMark wrote: Will be a toss up between portalglyph and grimoure based on mission and opponents, I know what you mean its a single shot weapon, so yes it will need prescience if I want to use it as a solid anti armour platform. Have yet to use the soul grinder, but in this list mainly there as anti air, the plhegm is ordanance so snap shooting with the harvester cannon..
Will create my own thread in a bit TK instead of cluttering up yours!
Your fine. This is an daemon army list building thread. Not just TK Daemon Army List.
In the case, this is the list I have had a LOT of success with,
Fateweaver (or LoC sometimes really not sure on which one I prefer)
Herald of Tzeentch, Locus of conjuration, lvl 2, exalted reward for grimoure
17 Horrors
10 horrors
10 horrors
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 1 exalted reward (portalglpyh) 1 greater reward
1750pts
if I run the LoC I put the exalted reward on him for the portalglpyh and run the DP as the others (2 greater 1 lesser), the lesser reward is there for shooting attacks hopefully at least then I can have some overwatch or non PSA. So far I havent lost a game, tabling my opponents in the process including two very good toruny level players and a few cheesey lists!. For 1850 i would bump up the horrors but the 17 unit squad is my main squad which gives me anti air anti light armour and a lot of shots!.
I will be dropping a DP in some games to try out a soul grinder list will look like this
Fateweaver (or LoC sometimes really not sure on which one I prefer)
Herald of Tzeentch, Locus of conjuration, lvl 2, exalted reward for grimoure
Herald of Tzeentch, Locus of conjuration, lvl 2, exalted
17 Horrors
17 horrors
10 horrors
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 1 exalted reward (portalglpyh) 1 greater reward
Soul Grinder, Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
So two better troop units, two DP's and a soul grinder, again not sure on fatey or LoC More troops, another 13 to be exact
How do you get two greater deamons and three heralds at the same time?
Double FOC, dude.
Ah okay cool. I'm relatively new, and have never run into that before. Do any tournaments allow this? Is it any time you are using a 2000+ pt list, or are there other requirements? Do you need to have opponents agreement? When you have two FOC can you take two of the 0-1 options (for example two selections of four heralds each)
Yea I figure its a thread to talk exclusively on and about daemon list that people want to throw at other daemon players to view. I like the thirster. Hate the keeper. He is just to slow and vulnerable to too much attention. If you run a keeper he needs to be in an assault heavy army where your opponent has multiple turn 1 and 2 threats to deal with. I like the princes as well. They can really put some hurt on but not sure why your not taking advantage of their jack of all trade psychic abilities.
Also I am curious why flesh hounds over seekers? Seekers are faster and have more attacks and are generally all round better. This doesn't even include that they are also 3 points cheaper per model. Finally what armies have you run this against? How have the duel princes been working for you?
The 'Thirster is pretty simple but a bad ass. I think makes a great warlord and a little more survivable than the Princes.
I just have something for the Keeper, but after a few play tests I am ready to dump it, my conclusions are the same as yours.
Too many points for psychic abilities on the Princes.
I prefer Hounds over Seekers, only a few points more and you get two wounds per unit and furious charge. They are also stronger and tougher. Seekers I can just see going down to bolter fire etc. I wouldn't say Seekers are faster as both units move 12" though Seekers do of course get fleet.
Only tested this list twice and both times against Ravenwing. Not done much with it lately if I am honest.
How do you get two greater deamons and three heralds at the same time?
Double FOC, dude.
Ah okay cool. I'm relatively new, and have never run into that before. Do any tournaments allow this? Is it any time you are using a 2000+ pt list, or are there other requirements? Do you need to have opponents agreement? When you have two FOC can you take two of the 0-1 options (for example two selections of four heralds each)
Depends where you play. It's not when you play 2k lists it is when you play 2k games, so you could say you're paying a 2k game and the list is 1,998 or something. Never had opponent's agree before playing, it's in the rules, the same as allies. You still need a single HQ and two troops for the double FOC minimum.
MarkyMark wrote: Will be a toss up between portalglyph and grimoure based on mission and opponents, I know what you mean its a single shot weapon, so yes it will need prescience if I want to use it as a solid anti armour platform. Have yet to use the soul grinder, but in this list mainly there as anti air, the plhegm is ordanance so snap shooting with the harvester cannon..
Will create my own thread in a bit TK instead of cluttering up yours!
Your fine. This is an daemon army list building thread. Not just TK Daemon Army List.
In the case, this is the list I have had a LOT of success with,
Fateweaver (or LoC sometimes really not sure on which one I prefer)
Herald of Tzeentch, Locus of conjuration, lvl 2, exalted reward for grimoure
17 Horrors
10 horrors
10 horrors
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 1 exalted reward (portalglpyh) 1 greater reward
1750pts
if I run the LoC I put the exalted reward on him for the portalglpyh and run the DP as the others (2 greater 1 lesser), the lesser reward is there for shooting attacks hopefully at least then I can have some overwatch or non PSA. So far I havent lost a game, tabling my opponents in the process including two very good toruny level players and a few cheesey lists!. For 1850 i would bump up the horrors but the 17 unit squad is my main squad which gives me anti air anti light armour and a lot of shots!.
I will be dropping a DP in some games to try out a soul grinder list will look like this
Fateweaver (or LoC sometimes really not sure on which one I prefer)
Herald of Tzeentch, Locus of conjuration, lvl 2, exalted reward for grimoure
Herald of Tzeentch, Locus of conjuration, lvl 2, exalted
17 Horrors
17 horrors
10 horrors
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, armour wings lvl 2 pysker 1 exalted reward (portalglpyh) 1 greater reward
Soul Grinder, Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
So two better troop units, two DP's and a soul grinder, again not sure on fatey or LoC More troops, another 13 to be exact
Might have already covered this but you could have a real bad day against grey knights, space wolves, and more importantly any eldar psyker. I like the psychic list but might not be too reliant on it to get the job done. If your psychic powers get shut down your troops will basically have no effect on the game. Though casting with them only nets you one lost horror a turn to perils.
How do you get two greater deamons and three heralds at the same time?
Double FOC, dude.
Ah okay cool. I'm relatively new, and have never run into that before. Do any tournaments allow this? Is it any time you are using a 2000+ pt list, or are there other requirements? Do you need to have opponents agreement? When you have two FOC can you take two of the 0-1 options (for example two selections of four heralds each)
I actually like to give my opponent a heads up and clarify whether the game is 2000pts or 1999+1 which sometimes what people play to avoid facing double force org. Communication is key to have a nice friendly game. Everyone has ran into that game where you were playing with someone and then turn 3 your opponent informs you that he is actually running forgeworld units etc....
I find there is great synergy between a nurgle marked soul grinder and shooty plague drones. The drones are large enough to provide 5++ cover for the grinders, which then have 3++ due to shrouding. So the PD provide cover on the move, get out of the grinder's LOS in their own movement phase, toss s4 skulls at people, and then jet pack move back for cover in the assault phase. Just a thought.
There may be synergy there, but you're also paying a lot of points for it. How many drones are you talking about? Couldn't you also provide cover with a unit of nurglings? The new models for those are quite tall.
Soul Grinder: Phlegm Bombardment; Daemon of Nurgle. 180
Aegis Defense Line: Icarus Lascannon. 85
1,250 points
I've been having the Daemonettes man the Icarus gun in the ADL and mostly just acting as a charge deterrent. It's worked well so far. I'm not sold on the Soul Grinder, I might swap it and the Screamers for a DP with some Psychic attacks, but I'm worried about fighting Eldar and other armies with good Psychic defenses.
Heavy support:
Soul Grinder
Daemon of nurgle, phlegm bombardment 180pts.
Daemon prince of khorne, wings, armor, blade of blood, greater reward 260pts.
Daemon prince of khorne, wings, armor, blade of blood, greater reward 260pts.
Total: 1750pts
Basic idea is to rush ahead with DPs and thirster to engage enemy on turn 2, when hopefully my daemonettes and slaanesh heralds will come in from outflanking. The tzeentch herald will take either portaglyph or grimoire, depending on the opponent or the scenario. If no killpoints, then portaglyph and grimoire, if it's a killpoint mission. The grinder is there to be a fourth big target for the enemy to shoot at, as i need to try and draw some fire away from the FMCs. I have listed the greater reward weapons by name, so don't get confused as there are 2 greater rewards on all princes and the thirster
Redbeard wrote: There may be synergy there, but you're also paying a lot of points for it. How many drones are you talking about? Couldn't you also provide cover with a unit of nurglings? The new models for those are quite tall.
Yes, but nurglings can't move out of the way. And I run a five man unit.
Soul Grinder: Phlegm Bombardment; Daemon of Nurgle. 180
Aegis Defense Line: Icarus Lascannon. 85
1,250 points
I've been having the Daemonettes man the Icarus gun in the ADL and mostly just acting as a charge deterrent. It's worked well so far. I'm not sold on the Soul Grinder, I might swap it and the Screamers for a DP with some Psychic attacks, but I'm worried about fighting Eldar and other armies with good Psychic defenses.
Looks pretty decent. Though fate weaver might be a bit harder to fit into a 1250 list. Might lean towards more bodies. As for the soul grinder. I have tried them a few times and just cant help but feel disappointed. People like its skyfire ability but you have to think that is a BS 3 quadgun without twin liked and one less shot. As for the roll for your daemonettes. I would recommend switching it up to nurgle if all your doing is hiding behind the wall. That way you have a 2+ cover save while providing support.
masquerade81 wrote:I'm trying to make a working daemon list for a 1750pts. range and this is what i came up with from my current models:
HQ:
Bloodthirster
Greater reward, blade of blood 290pts.
Herald of slaanesh
Etherblade, steed 70pts.
Herald of slaanesh
Etherblade, steed 70pts.
Herald of Tzeentch
Mastery lvl 2
Exalted reward (either grimoire or portaglyph, depending on scenario or opponent)
Exalted loci of conjuration 125pts.
Heavy support:
Soul Grinder
Daemon of nurgle, phlegm bombardment 180pts.
Daemon prince of khorne, wings, armor, blade of blood, greater reward 260pts.
Daemon prince of khorne, wings, armor, blade of blood, greater reward 260pts.
Total: 1750pts
Basic idea is to rush ahead with DPs and thirster to engage enemy on turn 2, when hopefully my daemonettes and slaanesh heralds will come in from outflanking. The tzeentch herald will take either portaglyph or grimoire, depending on the opponent or the scenario. If no killpoints, then portaglyph and grimoire, if it's a killpoint mission. The grinder is there to be a fourth big target for the enemy to shoot at, as i need to try and draw some fire away from the FMCs. I have listed the greater reward weapons by name, so don't get confused as there are 2 greater rewards on all princes and the thirster
Your making your blood thirster initiative one with the blade of blood? There is no real reason to take this weapon with a thirster. Again the same for your daemon princes. There is no reason for you to take the blade of blood unless all your looking to get is rampage?? If you run the soul grinder nurgle is definately the way to go. Now for your heralds. They have some of the best ways to be kitted out. Have you tried the eternal blade and Exalted locus of beguilement? Can really turn the daemonettes into a hammer unit.
Might have already covered this but you could have a real bad day against grey knights, space wolves, and more importantly any eldar psyker. I like the psychic list but might not be too reliant on it to get the job done. If your psychic powers get shut down your troops will basically have no effect on the game. Though casting with them only nets you one lost horror a turn to perils
Yes, have faced a SW list with a RP in drop pod, wasnt pretty!, had around 7 powers or so denied, the few that got through were iron arm on my DP, managed to kill off the RP and canis wolfborn wolf lord on TWC and win
Redbeard wrote: There may be synergy there, but you're also paying a lot of points for it. How many drones are you talking about? Couldn't you also provide cover with a unit of nurglings? The new models for those are quite tall.
Yes, but nurglings can't move out of the way. And I run a five man unit.
So... you're spending over 250 points for a unit that's bouncing back and forth to protect, at most, a 180 point model. And that unit's only other contribution is 10 BS3 shots within 12".
You know, the nurglings don't need to move out of the way. They can cover 25% of the soul grinder without obscuring the soul grinder's vision or weapons easily enough.
Redbeard wrote: There may be synergy there, but you're also paying a lot of points for it. How many drones are you talking about? Couldn't you also provide cover with a unit of nurglings? The new models for those are quite tall.
Yes, but nurglings can't move out of the way. And I run a five man unit.
So... you're spending over 250 points for a unit that's bouncing back and forth to protect, at most, a 180 point model. And that unit's only other contribution is 10 BS3 shots within 12".
You know, the nurglings don't need to move out of the way. They can cover 25% of the soul grinder without obscuring the soul grinder's vision or weapons easily enough.
Exactly how tall are the new nurgling models? Would be a little silly to see nurglings giving cover to a soul grinder. Personally I am not a fan of nurglings as I think without eternal warrior they are just too easy of a kill point. So much S6 shooting or even S4 shooting with enfeeble.
Your making your blood thirster initiative one with the blade of blood? There is no real reason to take this weapon with a thirster. Again the same for your daemon princes. There is no reason for you to take the blade of blood unless all your looking to get is rampage?? If you run the soul grinder nurgle is definately the way to go. Now for your heralds. They have some of the best ways to be kitted out. Have you tried the eternal blade and Exalted locus of beguilement? Can really turn the daemonettes into a hammer unit.
Monstrous Creatures and Walkers are unaffected by Unwieldy.
Your making your blood thirster initiative one with the blade of blood? There is no real reason to take this weapon with a thirster. Again the same for your daemon princes. There is no reason for you to take the blade of blood unless all your looking to get is rampage?? If you run the soul grinder nurgle is definately the way to go. Now for your heralds. They have some of the best ways to be kitted out. Have you tried the eternal blade and Exalted locus of beguilement? Can really turn the daemonettes into a hammer unit.
Monstrous Creatures and Walkers are unaffected by Unwieldy.
Still think a greater reward such as re-roll invuls or FnP would be better rather then auto taking a blade that only really helps with rampage.
Your making your blood thirster initiative one with the blade of blood? There is no real reason to take this weapon with a thirster. Again the same for your daemon princes. There is no reason for you to take the blade of blood unless all your looking to get is rampage?? If you run the soul grinder nurgle is definately the way to go. Now for your heralds. They have some of the best ways to be kitted out. Have you tried the eternal blade and Exalted locus of beguilement? Can really turn the daemonettes into a hammer unit.
Monstrous Creatures and Walkers are unaffected by Unwieldy.
Still think a greater reward such as re-roll invuls or FnP would be better rather then auto taking a blade that only really helps with rampage.
I agree. I usually take the rewards with an eye to what the 'primaris' choice is, but I always roll to see what I get.
Dp of slaanesh, 2 greater - one lash, fmc, armor - no flyers - (grimwar or portal opposite reward of above.
Dp of slaanesh, 2 greater - one lash....if no flyers exalted, fmc, armor
Dp of slaanesh, 1 greater, fmc, armor
Your making your blood thirster initiative one with the blade of blood? There is no real reason to take this weapon with a thirster. Again the same for your daemon princes. There is no reason for you to take the blade of blood unless all your looking to get is rampage?? If you run the soul grinder nurgle is definately the way to go. Now for your heralds. They have some of the best ways to be kitted out. Have you tried the eternal blade and Exalted locus of beguilement? Can really turn the daemonettes into a hammer unit.
Monstrous Creatures and Walkers are unaffected by Unwieldy.
Still think a greater reward such as re-roll invuls or FnP would be better rather then auto taking a blade that only really helps with rampage.
the thirster and DPs have all two greater rewards. I can roll them and take the best survivability reward and exchange the crappy one for the blade of blood. Also as said ,MCs don't care about unwieldy. On top of that the thirster now has two specialist weapons, so it has +1 +D3 attacks and +1 on the charge, that is a minimum of 9 and max 11 attacks on str7 or 6-8 smash attacks if charging and attacking more models than the thirster. Ofc against vehicles the exalted reward eternity blade would give out more attacks but that is one less roll on the greater reward table so i will pass on that.
As for the exalted loci of beguilment, i find that 30pts is a bit too much for it. Daemonettes hit most units with 3's anyway, so the reroll is not that big, although it can save a poor roll. I usually have an alluress in my units as to take a challenge, as i want my herald to be able to rip apart the basic troops on turn 1 and stay in combat for an extra turn so they won't get shot at. With the beguilment my heraod will rip the enemy character apart, but do no damage on the rest of the unit, that may then hit the daemonettes back with more attacks. The lone sergeant can then be killed ih he survives tje naked alluress (and usually does) and the daemonette squad is safe from shooting on the next enemy turn.
Your making your blood thirster initiative one with the blade of blood? There is no real reason to take this weapon with a thirster. Again the same for your daemon princes. There is no reason for you to take the blade of blood unless all your looking to get is rampage?? If you run the soul grinder nurgle is definately the way to go. Now for your heralds. They have some of the best ways to be kitted out. Have you tried the eternal blade and Exalted locus of beguilement? Can really turn the daemonettes into a hammer unit.
Monstrous Creatures and Walkers are unaffected by Unwieldy.
Still think a greater reward such as re-roll invuls or FnP would be better rather then auto taking a blade that only really helps with rampage.
the thirster and DPs have all two greater rewards. I can roll them and take the best survivability reward and exchange the crappy one for the blade of blood. Also as said ,MCs don't care about unwieldy. On top of that the thirster now has two specialist weapons, so it has +1 +D3 attacks and +1 on the charge, that is a minimum of 9 and max 11 attacks on str7 or 6-8 smash attacks if charging and attacking more models than the thirster. Ofc against vehicles the exalted reward eternity blade would give out more attacks but that is one less roll on the greater reward table so i will pass on that.
As for the exalted loci of beguilment, i find that 30pts is a bit too much for it. Daemonettes hit most units with 3's anyway, so the reroll is not that big, although it can save a poor roll. I usually have an alluress in my units as to take a challenge, as i want my herald to be able to rip apart the basic troops on turn 1 and stay in combat for an extra turn so they won't get shot at. With the beguilment my heraod will rip the enemy character apart, but do no damage on the rest of the unit, that may then hit the daemonettes back with more attacks. The lone sergeant can then be killed ih he survives tje naked alluress (and usually does) and the daemonette squad is safe from shooting on the next enemy turn.
Well Beguilment also lets you pick who fights you. I.E. a warlord hiding in the back or a character giving the unit a special rule. I have used to to snipe out characters like Coteaz and Eldrad. I get to pick who accepts the challenge. They cant deny it.
Your making your blood thirster initiative one with the blade of blood? There is no real reason to take this weapon with a thirster. Again the same for your daemon princes. There is no reason for you to take the blade of blood unless all your looking to get is rampage?? If you run the soul grinder nurgle is definately the way to go. Now for your heralds. They have some of the best ways to be kitted out. Have you tried the eternal blade and Exalted locus of beguilement? Can really turn the daemonettes into a hammer unit.
Monstrous Creatures and Walkers are unaffected by Unwieldy.
Still think a greater reward such as re-roll invuls or FnP would be better rather then auto taking a blade that only really helps with rampage.
the thirster and DPs have all two greater rewards. I can roll them and take the best survivability reward and exchange the crappy one for the blade of blood. Also as said ,MCs don't care about unwieldy. On top of that the thirster now has two specialist weapons, so it has +1 +D3 attacks and +1 on the charge, that is a minimum of 9 and max 11 attacks on str7 or 6-8 smash attacks if charging and attacking more models than the thirster. Ofc against vehicles the exalted reward eternity blade would give out more attacks but that is one less roll on the greater reward table so i will pass on that.
As for the exalted loci of beguilment, i find that 30pts is a bit too much for it. Daemonettes hit most units with 3's anyway, so the reroll is not that big, although it can save a poor roll. I usually have an alluress in my units as to take a challenge, as i want my herald to be able to rip apart the basic troops on turn 1 and stay in combat for an extra turn so they won't get shot at. With the beguilment my heraod will rip the enemy character apart, but do no damage on the rest of the unit, that may then hit the daemonettes back with more attacks. The lone sergeant can then be killed ih he survives tje naked alluress (and usually does) and the daemonette squad is safe from shooting on the next enemy turn.
Well Beguilment also lets you pick who fights you. I.E. a warlord hiding in the back or a character giving the unit a special rule. I have used to to snipe out characters like Coteaz and Eldrad. I get to pick who accepts the challenge. They cant deny it.
Still i can't help but feel that it's situational at best. Have used it, but it has not made it's points back as i would want it to both my heralds as i usually run two. Maybe if i ran only one herald, then i would load it up more with stuff.
Cool idea for a thread. I like the idea of sharing all our ideas for lists.
I currently run two lists at 2k (shaving stuff down as necessary to get down to 1850/1750):
MTO (Multiple Threat Overload) List w/ CSM Allies Fateweaver: 300pts
Lord of Change w/ Exalted Reward, Greater Reward: 280pts
CSM Daemon Prince w/ Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings, Armor, Black Mace: 265pts
5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta Gun, 3 regs have CCW replacing boltgun: 85pts
w/ Chaos Rhino: 35pts
2*10 Pink Horrors: 180pts
Helldrake w/ Baleflamer: 170pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm Bombardment: 510pts
Forgefiend: 175pts
1999+1pts
I'm not sure how competitive this list is, but it's a ton of fun and always seems to have a good game. I've played against Dark Angels, Gunline Guard, a vehicle heavy Chaos Space Marines list, and termi spam Grey Knights with this list. I beat the Guard, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Angels fairly convincingly (though the Dark Angels player is new, so I don't really consider it a fair test), and fought the Grey Knights to a draw after giving up first blood. I tend to go for the Portalglyph rather than the Grimoire in all of my games because this list is really troops light. In Big Guns and KP missions, though, I'd probably go Grimoire. Haven't had either yet.
'Ard List Fateweaver: 300pts
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Exalted Reward, Steed, Lesser Reward: 100pts
5*15 Daemonettes, 2 w/ Instruments and Icons, 1 has 14 Daemonettes instead: 706pts
15 Seekers of Slaanesh w/ Icon, Heartseeker: 195pts
15 Seekers of Slaanesh w/ Icon & Heartseeker w/ Greater Reward: 215pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Torrent: 480pts
1996pts
The above list is what, IMHO, most closely approximates what a competitive Daemons army will eventually look like. Soul Grinders/Fateweaver provide token anti-air, the Herald makes Fateweaver pretty close to unkillable until she's dead, and you have two beefy units of seekers and 5 units of deepstriking Daemonettes to provide a nightmarish turn 2/3 threat that's 105 bodies strong. I'm still not completely sold on the Soul Grinders in this list, to be honest, but I want some heavy guns and extra S10 close combat and I don't see Tzeentch Daemon Princes being all that hot for that. Soul Grinders have torrent because I'd rather grab some anti-horde in this list to give me a leg up against the hordes that will out-compete my Daemonettes like Nids/Orks (or any hordes, really, I just can't imagine this list surviving against a horde that isn't gunline guard w/o some dedicated anti horde firepower). While I have fun with my MTO list, my 'Ard list has won the games I've played with it significantly more convincingly. I've played Dark Angels (a couple different players), drop pod salamanders, drop pod space wolves, and Chaos Space Marines with this list and the only army I haven't tabled or near-tabled was the Space Wolves due to a very poor play decision I made to hold my daemonettes in reserve rather than using them as bubblewrap. Even then the space wolves were in a poor spot when we had to call the game at the end of turn 4. The only thing I don't like about my 'Ard List is the fact that my Grinders and my regular troops attract the exact opposite sorts of Fire Power, making my enemy's target priority easier than I'd like. I tend to give up first blood a lot because of this. Replacing the Grinders w/ a dedicated anti-air/heavy fire power allied contingent behind a comms Aegis would probably make this list stronger in competitive play, but I'd rather keep it Daemons only for myself.
I'm also thinking about trying a Daemons/Dark Eldar skimmer build for fun, but can't seem to find my Dark Eldar codex. I'll be sure to post it up here when I make it.
Exactly how tall are the new nurgling models? Would be a little silly to see nurglings giving cover to a soul grinder.
I have no idea, I have all older nurgling bases that are barely tall enough to give cover to a marine, let alone a walker. But the pics of them in the codex appear to be taller than a new plaguebearer model, and as wide as the entire 40mm base. A unit of three would then be both taller than an aegis line and 120mm wide (approx 4.5 inches, so enough to block most of the soulgrinder?)
Had a new idea for an army. The idea is to have a herald of tzeentch flying around with some screamers and casting prescience on ny flesh hounds. Could be devastating here is the whole list. Please give feedback if i should change something in the list.
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2xgreater rewards 290pts.
Karanak 120 (joins flesh hounds)
Herald of tzeentch
Disc, exalted reward 100pts. (usually grimoire or a portaglyph depending on the scenario. Will boost the flesh hounds with presciense and grimoire. Joins screamers)
Herald os slaanesh
Exalted loci, lesser reward 95pts. (joins daemonettes, who will deepstrike in. Takes etherblade to deal with 2+ armor in challenges)
Troops:
20 daemonettes
Alluress 185pts.
10 plaguebearers 90pts.
10 horrors 90pts.
10 horrors 90pts.
fast attack:
20 flesh hounds 320pts.
8 screamers 200
heavy:
Soul grinder
Daemon of nurgle, phlegm bombardment 180pts.
Total 1750pts.
So the plan is to deploy the grinder, hounds with karanak, screamers with herald and the thirster. All of the troops will come down from reserves. Plagues will just walk in and take a backfield objective. Daemonettes will DS to support the flesh hounds and thirster is there to draw loads of fire and wreck high AV. How does this look?
zamnath wrote:Cool idea for a thread. I like the idea of sharing all our ideas for lists.
I currently run two lists at 2k (shaving stuff down as necessary to get down to 1850/1750):
MTO (Multiple Threat Overload) List w/ CSM Allies Fateweaver: 300pts
Lord of Change w/ Exalted Reward, Greater Reward: 280pts
CSM Daemon Prince w/ Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings, Armor, Black Mace: 265pts
5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta Gun, 3 regs have CCW replacing boltgun: 85pts
w/ Chaos Rhino: 35pts
2*10 Pink Horrors: 180pts
Helldrake w/ Baleflamer: 170pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm Bombardment: 510pts
Forgefiend: 175pts
1999+1pts
I'm not sure how competitive this list is, but it's a ton of fun and always seems to have a good game. I've played against Dark Angels, Gunline Guard, a vehicle heavy Chaos Space Marines list, and termi spam Grey Knights with this list. I beat the Guard, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Angels fairly convincingly (though the Dark Angels player is new, so I don't really consider it a fair test), and fought the Grey Knights to a draw after giving up first blood. I tend to go for the Portalglyph rather than the Grimoire in all of my games because this list is really troops light. In Big Guns and KP missions, though, I'd probably go Grimoire. Haven't had either yet.
'Ard List Fateweaver: 300pts
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Exalted Reward, Steed, Lesser Reward: 100pts
5*15 Daemonettes, 2 w/ Instruments and Icons, 1 has 14 Daemonettes instead: 706pts
15 Seekers of Slaanesh w/ Icon, Heartseeker: 195pts
15 Seekers of Slaanesh w/ Icon & Heartseeker w/ Greater Reward: 215pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Torrent: 480pts
1996pts
The above list is what, IMHO, most closely approximates what a competitive Daemons army will eventually look like. Soul Grinders/Fateweaver provide token anti-air, the Herald makes Fateweaver pretty close to unkillable until she's dead, and you have two beefy units of seekers and 5 units of deepstriking Daemonettes to provide a nightmarish turn 2/3 threat that's 105 bodies strong. I'm still not completely sold on the Soul Grinders in this list, to be honest, but I want some heavy guns and extra S10 close combat and I don't see Tzeentch Daemon Princes being all that hot for that. Soul Grinders have torrent because I'd rather grab some anti-horde in this list to give me a leg up against the hordes that will out-compete my Daemonettes like Nids/Orks (or any hordes, really, I just can't imagine this list surviving against a horde that isn't gunline guard w/o some dedicated anti horde firepower). While I have fun with my MTO list, my 'Ard list has won the games I've played with it significantly more convincingly. I've played Dark Angels (a couple different players), drop pod salamanders, drop pod space wolves, and Chaos Space Marines with this list and the only army I haven't tabled or near-tabled was the Space Wolves due to a very poor play decision I made to hold my daemonettes in reserve rather than using them as bubblewrap. Even then the space wolves were in a poor spot when we had to call the game at the end of turn 4. The only thing I don't like about my 'Ard List is the fact that my Grinders and my regular troops attract the exact opposite sorts of Fire Power, making my enemy's target priority easier than I'd like. I tend to give up first blood a lot because of this. Replacing the Grinders w/ a dedicated anti-air/heavy fire power allied contingent behind a comms Aegis would probably make this list stronger in competitive play, but I'd rather keep it Daemons only for myself.
I'm also thinking about trying a Daemons/Dark Eldar skimmer build for fun, but can't seem to find my Dark Eldar codex. I'll be sure to post it up here when I make it.
The 2k list is definitely too reliant on the portalglyph. Your army has 2 units of 10 horrors which are toughness 3 with a 5++ save. With my 1850 necron list I could probably kill off your troops by the end of turn 2.
Your 2nd list is much stronger. I could see if being a serious threat to a majority of the armies in the game. However, with all 5 troops going into reserve that might make it easy for your opponent to target the other threats in your list as you stated. In addition, you run the risk of the army coming in piecemeal. Obviously you wont be deep striking against grey knights otherwise that would be another issue. Why dont you find points for phlegm? Will give you the range anti-armor threat that the list needs. As stated your biggest threats will be horde armies or mech spam with decent AV such as Necrons and IG.
masquerade81 wrote:Had a new idea for an army. The idea is to have a herald of tzeentch flying around with some screamers and casting prescience on ny flesh hounds. Could be devastating here is the whole list. Please give feedback if i should change something in the list.
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2xgreater rewards 290pts.
Karanak 120 (joins flesh hounds)
Herald of tzeentch
Disc, exalted reward 100pts. (usually grimoire or a portaglyph depending on the scenario. Will boost the flesh hounds with presciense and grimoire. Joins screamers)
Herald os slaanesh
Exalted loci, lesser reward 95pts. (joins daemonettes, who will deepstrike in. Takes etherblade to deal with 2+ armor in challenges)
Troops:
20 daemonettes
Alluress 185pts.
10 plaguebearers 90pts.
10 horrors 90pts.
10 horrors 90pts.
fast attack:
20 flesh hounds 320pts.
8 screamers 200
heavy:
Soul grinder
Daemon of nurgle, phlegm bombardment 180pts.
Total 1750pts.
So the plan is to deploy the grinder, hounds with karanak, screamers with herald and the thirster. All of the troops will come down from reserves. Plagues will just walk in and take a backfield objective. Daemonettes will DS to support the flesh hounds and thirster is there to draw loads of fire and wreck high AV. How does this look?
For starters karanak his 120pts (Mind you he is S5 and T5 and gives his unit rage)
YMMV but I would probably replace him with
Skulltaker on juggernaut 145pts (he is S5, T5, I9, A5 base and a 3+ AS. He also has anti-psyker loci, and cant instant death models. Also he is the only model in the dex with eternal warrior)
The slannesh herald... you are taking the etherblade for ap2. I think every time you are running against armor 2+ the model your fighting will be T4 or higher. Netting you on average 1.778 wounds, or 2.222 on the charge. If you can find a way to get the eternal blade it gives you D3 extra attacks, initiative and weapons skill while also adding +1 strength. This helps with more net wounds against all opponents and you can still rend to get ap2. You can get up to 8 attacks on charge netting you 1.778 unsaved wounds or 1.111 if you get charged and get minimum boost to 5 total attacks. This is all ran against t4 models. If the model was higher in toughness then the eternal blade becomes more and more point efficient. Again YMMV and this will come down to personal preference. If you target is terminators without storm shields then your etherblade is probably better.
Also you do realize that your list only has 1 unit that shoots normally and two units that need psychic test do shoot a measly 2d6 shots at S5. Your running the exalted reward on your tzeentch herald but arent taking full advantage of it. He has no psychic levels added on, the unit he can boost is only 10 strong. You might consider combining the unit to make it 20 strong pink horrors. This would make all their shooting S6 and 4d6 shots from one unit. The the herald will still only be able to do 2d6.
LoC: greater and lesser gift = 260
Nurgle herald: Loci of FnP, lesser gift = 80
18 plaguebearers = 162
10 horrors = 90
3 Drones: venom, Plaguebringer w/ lesser gift = 156
TOTAL = 748
Its very hard to kill, has fast/tough/killy people who kill.....hehe... The PB's tanked so much, the lowest they got was to 2 guys left with the herald against shooty DE. Love the Drones, Love LoC, Horrors are alright at 10 guys, managed to kill a tank with some good rolls.
Tombking: I generally agree with your points on my lists, but I'm not sure about Necron shooting being all that threatening to Horrors. Have you tried dislodging a Horrors unit in a ruin with regular shooting? I don't recall Necron having much shooting that ignores cover (forgive me if they do). If my enemy's relying on normal shooting I'd be willing to wager a 10 man Horrors unit in a ruin surviving most of the game given their 35/36 chance to save every wound they receive. If you don't have a decent chance of killing them all off you can't afford to direct your attention against the troops with your shooting. There's too many threats that have to be dealt with ASAP in that list. Against enemies with a decent amount of shooting that can ignore cover at range I agree with you, though. A smart opponent can just annihilate the troops and force me to play for the draw. The list is my "fun" list and the second one is my "competitive" one, but I do think with some tweaking the first list could be pretty hard to beat (removing a Grinder or the Forgefiend for some more Horrors, probably).
In my second list I have actually been thinking of replacing my Soul Grinders with the following CSM allied detachment:
Chaos Lord: 65pts
19 Chaos Cultists: 106pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Icarus: 85pts
It'll give me a backfield scoring unit, four good heavy weapons platforms, an excellent place to drop a Portalglyph (when I feel I'd rather have that than the Grimoire), and some cover for my units if I go second. Everything in that allied contingent wants to be targeted by the same type of firepower (generally) that the rest of my army wants to be targeted by, as well, as opposed to my Soul Grinders being an easy target for all the anti-tank weaponry at my enemy's disposal. What do you think?
masquerade81 wrote:does a weapon without rend gain rend if the wielder has rend?
Yes regardless of what weapon being used if a model has rend it has rend. Same for MC that have ap2 attacks regardless of weapon being wielded.
zamnath wrote:Tombking: I generally agree with your points on my lists, but I'm not sure about Necron shooting being all that threatening to Horrors. Have you tried dislodging a Horrors unit in a ruin with regular shooting? I don't recall Necron having much shooting that ignores cover (forgive me if they do). If my enemy's relying on normal shooting I'd be willing to wager a 10 man Horrors unit in a ruin surviving most of the game given their 35/36 chance to save every wound they receive. If you don't have a decent chance of killing them all off you can't afford to direct your attention against the troops with your shooting. There's too many threats that have to be dealt with ASAP in that list. Against enemies with a decent amount of shooting that can ignore cover at range I agree with you, though. A smart opponent can just annihilate the troops and force me to play for the draw. The list is my "fun" list and the second one is my "competitive" one, but I do think with some tweaking the first list could be pretty hard to beat (removing a Grinder or the Forgefiend for some more Horrors, probably).
In my second list I have actually been thinking of replacing my Soul Grinders with the following CSM allied detachment:
Chaos Lord: 65pts
19 Chaos Cultists: 106pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Icarus: 85pts
It'll give me a backfield scoring unit, four good heavy weapons platforms, an excellent place to drop a Portalglyph (when I feel I'd rather have that than the Grimoire), and some cover for my units if I go second. Everything in that allied contingent wants to be targeted by the same type of firepower (generally) that the rest of my army wants to be targeted by, as well, as opposed to my Soul Grinders being an easy target for all the anti-tank weaponry at my enemy's disposal. What do you think?
I generally like the adjustment. An aegis line is looking more and more like a good option to keep the backfield troops alive as well as keeping them alive if you go second. The aegis can even be placed up some in games where you have more assault units. If the cultist are going to just sit back and watch the fight why pay for more of them? BTW why are they 106pts? Do they have a mark that isnt listed as they come out to 86 points by my count. Either way I would drop all those extra points and my the chaos lord better.
masquerade81 wrote:does a weapon without rend gain rend if the wielder has rend?
Yes regardless of what weapon being used if a model has rend it has rend. Same for MC that have ap2 attacks regardless of weapon being wielded.
zamnath wrote:Tombking: I generally agree with your points on my lists, but I'm not sure about Necron shooting being all that threatening to Horrors. Have you tried dislodging a Horrors unit in a ruin with regular shooting? I don't recall Necron having much shooting that ignores cover (forgive me if they do). If my enemy's relying on normal shooting I'd be willing to wager a 10 man Horrors unit in a ruin surviving most of the game given their 35/36 chance to save every wound they receive. If you don't have a decent chance of killing them all off you can't afford to direct your attention against the troops with your shooting. There's too many threats that have to be dealt with ASAP in that list. Against enemies with a decent amount of shooting that can ignore cover at range I agree with you, though. A smart opponent can just annihilate the troops and force me to play for the draw. The list is my "fun" list and the second one is my "competitive" one, but I do think with some tweaking the first list could be pretty hard to beat (removing a Grinder or the Forgefiend for some more Horrors, probably).
In my second list I have actually been thinking of replacing my Soul Grinders with the following CSM allied detachment:
Chaos Lord: 65pts
19 Chaos Cultists: 106pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Icarus: 85pts
It'll give me a backfield scoring unit, four good heavy weapons platforms, an excellent place to drop a Portalglyph (when I feel I'd rather have that than the Grimoire), and some cover for my units if I go second. Everything in that allied contingent wants to be targeted by the same type of firepower (generally) that the rest of my army wants to be targeted by, as well, as opposed to my Soul Grinders being an easy target for all the anti-tank weaponry at my enemy's disposal. What do you think?
I generally like the adjustment. An aegis line is looking more and more like a good option to keep the backfield troops alive as well as keeping them alive if you go second. The aegis can even be placed up some in games where you have more assault units. If the cultist are going to just sit back and watch the fight why pay for more of them? BTW why are they 106pts? Do they have a mark that isnt listed as they come out to 86 points by my count. Either way I would drop all those extra points and my the chaos lord better.
I don't feel comfortable running 10 cultists, tbh. They can get to a 2+ behind the Aegis by going to ground, but they're still really easy to kill. Grabbing 20 of them gives me a better chance of seeing them survive until the end of the game, and makes it so that I can choose not to go to ground against the enemy's shooting if I want to be able to use the Lascannon. It's a 40ish point investment, but worth it.
You're right about the cultists. I completely messed up the math on them somehow. I must have given them the upgraded guns at some point and forgotten to fix the points total. It's fixed now. The list now looks like this:
'Ard List Fateweaver: 300pts
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Exalted Reward, Steed, Locus of Grace: 100pts
5*15 Daemonettes, 2 w/ Instruments and Icons: 715pts
15 Seekers of Slaanesh w/ Icon, Heartseeker: 195pts
15 Seekers of Slaanesh w/ Icon & Heartseeker w/ Greater Reward: 215pts
Chaos Lord w/ Gift of Mutation: 75pts
19 Chaos Cultists: 86pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Icarus: 85pts
1999pts
I have been tweaking my own list and come up with this:
Bloodthirster 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
2 x Herald of Slaanesh lesser reward, mastery level 2, exalted locus of beguilment & steed of slaanesh
Troops
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
Fast Attack
15 x Seekers
15 x Seekers
Total: 2,000 points
I am not a fan of Seekers, but everyone keeps telling me they are awesome. So I am going to give them a try.
List has three flying monstrous creatures; Princes give anti air support while Bloodthirster is my warlord.
Heralds go with the Seekers, they unit can re-roll to hit and the Heralds challenges must be accepted. The Heralds will take the lesser etherblade, this is due to points, plus 20 points for a greater is too expensive. Heralds hopefully get invisibility and use on the Seekers
Horrors will plink away at smaller units and armour. I know they are not brilliant but Daemons need some shooting. Also using MSU because I don't want a big fat unit of Horrors failing to do anything because of deny the witch.
My only thought is that I'd like to have more shooting on the Princes. I'd try to find enough points to give them mastery level 1 and take Psychic Scream. The only thing I don't like about it is that it's just as short range as the Lash.
Modified my list and I am gonna try a slannesh and nurgle herald with 2 ML each. I think Biomancy and Telepathy could really strengthen the army as a whole. Whatya guys think?
1750pt build
Fateweaver 300pts
Herald of Tzeentch 150pts
Exalted Locus of Conjuration; Exalted rewards; mastery level 3 (grimiore of true names)
Herald of Tzeentch 125pts
Exalted rewards; mastery level 3 (portalglyph)
Herald of Slannesh (Exalted Reward; Great loci of Beguilment; ML 2) 155pts
Herald of Nurgle (greater locus of Fecundity, greater reward, ML2, Palaquin of Nurgle)180pts
Heavy:
1 daemon prince (tzeentch, Warp Forged Armor, Greater Reward x 2, daemonic Flight, Mastery Level 3) 345pts
Total: 1700pts
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mercer wrote: I have been tweaking my own list and come up with this:
Bloodthirster 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
2 x Herald of Slaanesh lesser reward, mastery level 2, exalted locus of beguilment & steed of slaanesh
Troops
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
Fast Attack
15 x Seekers
15 x Seekers
Total: 2,000 points
I am not a fan of Seekers, but everyone keeps telling me they are awesome. So I am going to give them a try.
List has three flying monstrous creatures; Princes give anti air support while Bloodthirster is my warlord.
Heralds go with the Seekers, they unit can re-roll to hit and the Heralds challenges must be accepted. The Heralds will take the lesser etherblade, this is due to points, plus 20 points for a greater is too expensive. Heralds hopefully get invisibility and use on the Seekers
Horrors will plink away at smaller units and armour. I know they are not brilliant but Daemons need some shooting. Also using MSU because I don't want a big fat unit of Horrors failing to do anything because of deny the witch.
Thoughts?
You might be better off converting some of the horror units into plague bearers for camping the objectives on your side of the board. Basically your army consist of 3 FMC and 2 units of seekers at 2000pts. Might have issues against nids and horde's obviously. Also the new tau might give your FMC fits. Though the seekers will roll most tau armies that I see coming up. IMO Daemons are actually more competitive then TAU on a codex to codex basis. Though tau work better as allies.
mercer wrote: I have been tweaking my own list and come up with this:
Bloodthirster 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
2 x Herald of Slaanesh lesser reward, mastery level 2, exalted locus of beguilment & steed of slaanesh
Troops
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
Fast Attack
15 x Seekers
15 x Seekers
Total: 2,000 points
I am not a fan of Seekers, but everyone keeps telling me they are awesome. So I am going to give them a try.
List has three flying monstrous creatures; Princes give anti air support while Bloodthirster is my warlord.
Heralds go with the Seekers, they unit can re-roll to hit and the Heralds challenges must be accepted. The Heralds will take the lesser etherblade, this is due to points, plus 20 points for a greater is too expensive. Heralds hopefully get invisibility and use on the Seekers
Horrors will plink away at smaller units and armour. I know they are not brilliant but Daemons need some shooting. Also using MSU because I don't want a big fat unit of Horrors failing to do anything because of deny the witch.
Thoughts?
Have you considered switching the Slaanesh Heralds for Khorne Jugger heralds and grabbing hounds instead of Seekers, Mercer? Shooting Bolt of Change through a Hound and into an enemy's lined up stuck-in unit is cheesy fun (denying deny the witch, the enemy is lined up for maximum number of shots, and Flesh Hounds have a good chance of benefiting from the stacking FNP that Warpfire can give them. Totally worth the chance of IDing a single Flesh Hound.)
mercer wrote: I have been tweaking my own list and come up with this:
Bloodthirster 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
2 x Herald of Slaanesh lesser reward, mastery level 2, exalted locus of beguilment & steed of slaanesh
Troops
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
Fast Attack
15 x Seekers
15 x Seekers
Total: 2,000 points
I am not a fan of Seekers, but everyone keeps telling me they are awesome. So I am going to give them a try.
List has three flying monstrous creatures; Princes give anti air support while Bloodthirster is my warlord.
Heralds go with the Seekers, they unit can re-roll to hit and the Heralds challenges must be accepted. The Heralds will take the lesser etherblade, this is due to points, plus 20 points for a greater is too expensive. Heralds hopefully get invisibility and use on the Seekers
Horrors will plink away at smaller units and armour. I know they are not brilliant but Daemons need some shooting. Also using MSU because I don't want a big fat unit of Horrors failing to do anything because of deny the witch.
Thoughts?
Have you considered switching the Slaanesh Heralds for Khorne Jugger heralds and grabbing hounds instead of Seekers, Mercer? Shooting Bolt of Change through a Hound and into an enemy's lined up stuck-in unit is cheesy fun (denying deny the witch, the enemy is lined up for maximum number of shots, and Flesh Hounds have a good chance of benefiting from the stacking FNP that Warpfire can give them. Totally worth the chance of IDing a single Flesh Hound.)
Pretty sure you cant deliberately target your units... even with a beam attack.
mercer wrote: I have been tweaking my own list and come up with this:
Bloodthirster 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
2 x Herald of Slaanesh lesser reward, mastery level 2, exalted locus of beguilment & steed of slaanesh
Troops
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
Fast Attack
15 x Seekers
15 x Seekers
Total: 2,000 points
I am not a fan of Seekers, but everyone keeps telling me they are awesome. So I am going to give them a try.
List has three flying monstrous creatures; Princes give anti air support while Bloodthirster is my warlord.
Heralds go with the Seekers, they unit can re-roll to hit and the Heralds challenges must be accepted. The Heralds will take the lesser etherblade, this is due to points, plus 20 points for a greater is too expensive. Heralds hopefully get invisibility and use on the Seekers
Horrors will plink away at smaller units and armour. I know they are not brilliant but Daemons need some shooting. Also using MSU because I don't want a big fat unit of Horrors failing to do anything because of deny the witch.
Thoughts?
Have you considered switching the Slaanesh Heralds for Khorne Jugger heralds and grabbing hounds instead of Seekers, Mercer? Shooting Bolt of Change through a Hound and into an enemy's lined up stuck-in unit is cheesy fun (denying deny the witch, the enemy is lined up for maximum number of shots, and Flesh Hounds have a good chance of benefiting from the stacking FNP that Warpfire can give them. Totally worth the chance of IDing a single Flesh Hound.)
Pretty sure you cant deliberately target your units... even with a beam attack.
Beams target a point, not a unit. I actually did some major questioning on Dakka a couple weeks ago to figure out how it works. Essentially a 10 man unit of Pink Horrors with Bolt of Change will have only Bolt of Change as a shooting attack, which is important because beams have a stipulation that the first unit they hit must be the same one that the rest of the unit is targeting. As the Horrors only have Bolt of Change there is no other shooting in the unit, so they default to the targetting restrictions of the beam itself: pick a point within the range of the beam and line of sight. All models under the line (friend and foe) are then hit in order from the models closest to the firing model to the models farthest.
It gets even better when you read the way that Deny the Witch is worded for beams. If not for an FAQ Beams would actually be completely immune to Deny the Witch due to the fact that a unit has to be targeted to be able to Deny the Witch. To fix this problem GW put out an FAQ stating the following: "The first unit affected by the psychic power [the Beam] can attempt to deny the witch, but if that test is failed, every enemy unit is affected as normal." The FAQ does not stipulate that the "first unit affected" that can deny the witch be an enemy unit. As such, if you hit your Flesh Hounds before hitting anything else with Bolt of Change the Flesh Hounds unit is the first unit affected and the one that is able to Deny the Witch. As the controller of that unit you can then decline to Deny the Witch and the power will go off.
It's beardy, but I have yet to hear a decent argument as to why it doesn't work. The closest argument I've heard against this rules interpretation was a RAI argument pointing to the question part of the FAQ as "providing context" and changing the meaning of the answer part of the FAQ. I'm not going to rehash the back-and-forth, but that argument fails primarily because the semantics of the FAQ is "'Is x right?' 'No. y is right.'" I.E., replacing an incorrect statement with a correct statement. Arguing that the incorrect statement is able to change the explicit meaning of the correct statement via an implicit context is fallacious because the only explicit relationship between the two statements is that one is wrong and being replaced by the other. If a part of the replacing statement does not explicitly reference a part of the statement it is replacing (as with "the psychic power" [in this case referring to "beams"]) then you cannot use the one to alter the other. You have to take the replacing statement as is.
The Khorne side focuses on getting close to the enemy so that they'll be worried on getting about them since once the blood thirster gets in CC all is lost for the enemy.
Karanak will charge with the blob of Flesh hounds to try to kill something and stop psykers.
Daemonettes have instruments and Alluress to prevent the Slaanesh thing on the Warpstorm from killing my important characters and Khorne units.
The Herald of Tzeentch will stay with Obliterators to give them rerolls for shooting.
Soul Grinder will shoot and move forward.
Skull Cannon stays in the back and shoots at whatever the blob of fleshhounds need to charge or Daemonettes.
Warpsmith goes with the Cultist Blob and stay right beside the soul grinder so that if he suffers an Immobilize he can get back up on 2+ for every result besides explode.
Heldrake does its thing and burns stuff to crisp
Going to try this list out what do you guys think?
The Khorne side focuses on getting close to the enemy so that they'll be worried on getting about them since once the blood thirster gets in CC all is lost for the enemy.
Karanak will charge with the blob of Flesh hounds to try to kill something and stop psykers.
Daemonettes have instruments and Alluress to prevent the Slaanesh thing on the Warpstorm from killing my important characters and Khorne units.
The Herald of Tzeentch will stay with Obliterators to give them rerolls for shooting.
Soul Grinder will shoot and move forward.
Skull Cannon stays in the back and shoots at whatever the blob of fleshhounds need to charge or Daemonettes.
Warpsmith goes with the Cultist Blob and stay right beside the soul grinder so that if he suffers an Immobilize he can get back up on 2+ for every result besides explode.
Heldrake does its thing and burns stuff to crisp
Going to try this list out what do you guys think?
I like your allied contingent, but I'm not sure about your primary. It feels a bit unfocused. Your army will have the Skullcannon and the Soul Grinder as the only vehicles on the table 1st turn, and there's a great chance that your enemy will have exactly enough AA to deal with them in one turn. I'd either drop them or find points to fit in another Soul Grinder for armor saturation. The Flesh hounds are great, but the rest of your assault element--the Daemonettes--is anemic. 10 Daemonettes will die very quickly to pretty much anything. If you want to bring Daemonettes, I recommend bringing them in units that are at least 15 models strong. More than two is important, as well, if, as is the case with this list, they are important as scoring units in addition to their role as assault units. Your Herald of Tzeentch is a great compliment to the oblits, but it has no unit to go into (it can only join other Tzeentch Daemons) and, as such, is a ready kill point for your enemy. If you were to switch your Bloodthirster for a Lord of Change and drop your herald you could still have the prescience going onto your oblits early game while maintaining great Close Combat presence (with the proper upgrades).
You might be better off converting some of the horror units into plague bearers for camping the objectives on your side of the board. Basically your army consist of 3 FMC and 2 units of seekers at 2000pts. Might have issues against nids and horde's obviously. Also the new tau might give your FMC fits. Though the seekers will roll most tau armies that I see coming up. IMO Daemons are actually more competitive then TAU on a codex to codex basis. Though tau work better as allies.
Someone made a very good point that Horrors hold objectives just as well as Plaguebearers. The Horrors can snipe at enemy units and can also to to ground for a 2+ cover save when in area terrain. I know Plaguebearers are slightly tougher and get shrouding, though they cannot do a fat lot other than that. At least Horrors can contribute with ranged fire power.
The only answer I can see to hordes is Soul Grinders.
zamnath wrote:
Have you considered switching the Slaanesh Heralds for Khorne Jugger heralds and grabbing hounds instead of Seekers, Mercer? Shooting Bolt of Change through a Hound and into an enemy's lined up stuck-in unit is cheesy fun (denying deny the witch, the enemy is lined up for maximum number of shots, and Flesh Hounds have a good chance of benefiting from the stacking FNP that Warpfire can give them. Totally worth the chance of IDing a single Flesh Hound.)
My previous list had Flesh Hounds in, I really do like them, though the internet loves Seekers so I thought I would give them a try.
I did read your post about beams, however I do not think you can target your own unit as the initial target.
I like your allied contingent, but I'm not sure about your primary. It feels a bit unfocused. Your army will have the Skullcannon and the Soul Grinder as the only vehicles on the table 1st turn, and there's a great chance that your enemy will have exactly enough AA to deal with them in one turn. I'd either drop them or find points to fit in another Soul Grinder for armor saturation. The Flesh hounds are great, but the rest of your assault element--the Daemonettes--is anemic. 10 Daemonettes will die very quickly to pretty much anything. If you want to bring Daemonettes, I recommend bringing them in units that are at least 15 models strong. More than two is important, as well, if, as is the case with this list, they are important as scoring units in addition to their role as assault units. Your Herald of Tzeentch is a great compliment to the oblits, but it has no unit to go into (it can only join other Tzeentch Daemons) and, as such, is a ready kill point for your enemy. If you were to switch your Bloodthirster for a Lord of Change and drop your herald you could still have the prescience going onto your oblits early game while maintaining great Close Combat presence (with the proper upgrades).
Hopefully though I can put them behind terrain and stuff to hope for the best if I get second turn.
The Skull Cannon is kinda important for the fleshhounds though since then they can assault with out the initiative penalty same goes for the Bloodthirster.
I didn't really know what else to take for troop choices, Daemonettes can protect my Khorne units from getting killed and can absorb some firepower.
The Tzeentch Herald is in the back to throw down the portalglyph and hopefully will be hiding around, that's why I can have 2 Daemonette units to just sort of throw away or act as bullet magnets.
I have thought of deepstriking them so that my opponent would be surrounded by 2 fronts to deal with the fleshhounds or them.
I don't know if the Tzeentch Herald can join them or not though, since it says different Daemon Alignments taking a mark is not a different Daemon alignment though since it's never stated.
So that comes down to the FAQ to see what happens.
Won the first game, my opponent charged my fateweaver and accepted the challenge and the challenge went on for the entire game after the turn 2 charge from bikes.
Funny thing is my fateweaver popped his head so much due to runes of warding the head from the actual model fell off.
Daemon Princes are really good fire magnets, ate up so much fire from the enemy due to flying and made so many saves, one with 2+ cover and the other with 3+ and rerollable 1s.
Tzeentch Daemons were really good due to the reroll 1 save thing.
But Daemon Princes got slaughtered by Wraithlords.
The T5 really hurts a lot.
Pink Horrors one with beam one with flickerfire.
It was a nightmare with psychic powers because of runes of warding, what a stupid broken power.
My faterweaver casted 4 times and only once went off.
Pink Horrors went off from time to time but started dying here and there due to perils.
The heralds both just peril'd to death.
The Heldrake really helps a lot though, basically forcing them out of their position to kill it and it was guaranteed a squad kill per turn, not bad at all.
Really lacked heavy guns to kill high T stuff though, S8 Large Blast simply couldn't hurt the wraith lords
And in CC there was nothing to stop them...
Wraith Lords were kinda insane...
Portalglyph didn't spawn for 4 turns and on the 5th spawned the unit to sit on an objective, so there's the points back I guess.
Put it towards the back of your field seems to be the best idea.
Grimore + reroll went off everyturn.
Warpstorm didn't do anything and got 7s with the rerolls for the entire game. Maybe once was Khorne's wrath or something, scattered and missed.
Won the game with the Daemon Prince contesting and me sitting with two objectives in the back, one unit was from the portalglyph.
2nd game, changed out Fateweaver for bloodthirster, Khorne Daemon Prince instead due to the slot change thing.
Bloodthirster took the entire army to shoot at it to put it down to one wound.
My soulgrinder got immobilized first turn and was only throwing pieplates around after that for the entire game.
Nurgle Daemon Prince with Black mace failed 3 saves in one shooting phase with 2+ cover save lol.
And then died to small arms fire overwatch
Other Daemon Prince killed a good amount of bikes.
Psychic powers went off 50/50 but the powers simply aren't really worth their time, pretty useless.
Maybe I should take Pinkies in bigger squads for full fire.
Lacked a lot of range weapons and heavy as again and couldn't deal with the wraith lords.
Almost won though, was on top of the relic by the end of the game.
But since you could only pick it up during movement phase, I lost to secondary objectives.
First blood is such a bs thing. Goes first = very likely win for the entire game.
You might be better off converting some of the horror units into plague bearers for camping the objectives on your side of the board. Basically your army consist of 3 FMC and 2 units of seekers at 2000pts. Might have issues against nids and horde's obviously. Also the new tau might give your FMC fits. Though the seekers will roll most tau armies that I see coming up. IMO Daemons are actually more competitive then TAU on a codex to codex basis. Though tau work better as allies.
Someone made a very good point that Horrors hold objectives just as well as Plaguebearers. The Horrors can snipe at enemy units and can also to to ground for a 2+ cover save when in area terrain. I know Plaguebearers are slightly tougher and get shrouding, though they cannot do a fat lot other than that. At least Horrors can contribute with ranged fire power.
The only answer I can see to hordes is Soul Grinders.
zamnath wrote:
Have you considered switching the Slaanesh Heralds for Khorne Jugger heralds and grabbing hounds instead of Seekers, Mercer? Shooting Bolt of Change through a Hound and into an enemy's lined up stuck-in unit is cheesy fun (denying deny the witch, the enemy is lined up for maximum number of shots, and Flesh Hounds have a good chance of benefiting from the stacking FNP that Warpfire can give them. Totally worth the chance of IDing a single Flesh Hound.)
My previous list had Flesh Hounds in, I really do like them, though the internet loves Seekers so I thought I would give them a try.
I did read your post about beams, however I do not think you can target your own unit as the initial target.
There are no rules that I know of which prevent you from hitting your own unit first with a beam, as long as that beam is coming from a unit with no other possible shooting. Remember that beams don't "target" units, they "affect" them. Beams target a point and hit everything in a line from that point to the model using the beam. If there is a rule I'm not aware of please mention it so that I can correct my play in the future. (If it involves a rules interpretation rather than a very clearly explicit statement in the Rulebook we should probably move this conversation to a YMDC thread so that we don't derail this excellent list thread.)
The incarnations of my Daemonette spam list that I've used before didn't include seekers, I just attached a herald on mount to a Daemonettes unit to give them outflanking so that I could position my assault, and I'll be trying them out for the first time tonight. I'll be interested to hear what other peoples' experiences with them are and I'll post up a quick summary of what happen to mine tonight (my prediction: dakkadakkdakka and then no more seekers, but we'll see). That said, I really do think that Flesh Hounds are the way to go if you're running Fast Attack/Pink Horror spam.
Edit: To Makutsu: Unfortunately, units with the Daemonic Instability special rule cannot join units without it (see pg. 26). Well, the actual rule says units with the special rule can't be joined and doesn't say that units with the special rule can't join units without it, so you're technically okay right now, but I'd expect that to be FAQ'd and play accordingly. No mix and matching Daemon and Chaos Space Marine independent characters/units.
zamnath wrote: Edit: To Makutsu: Unfortunately, units with the Daemonic Instability special rule cannot join units without it (see pg. 26). Well, the actual rule says units with the special rule can't be joined and doesn't say that units with the special rule can't join units without it, so you're technically okay right now, but I'd expect that to be FAQ'd and play accordingly. No mix and matching Daemon and Chaos Space Marine independent characters/units.
I'm using the digital codex, and it explicitly states that model with DI cannot join or be joined by models without DI. No need for a FAQ.
I don't know what it says in the digital one you have but it says in my book:
"A unit with this special rule cannot be joined by a model without this special rule"
An IC joins a unit not the unit joining the IC, hence for now the Herald can join a CSM unit, but a CSMIC can not join a Daemon unit
There are no rules that I know of which prevent you from hitting your own unit first with a beam, as long as that beam is coming from a unit with no other possible shooting. Remember that beams don't "target" units, they "affect" them. Beams target a point and hit everything in a line from that point to the model using the beam. If there is a rule I'm not aware of please mention it so that I can correct my play in the future. (If it involves a rules interpretation rather than a very clearly explicit statement in the Rulebook we should probably move this conversation to a YMDC thread so that we don't derail this excellent list thread.)
The incarnations of my Daemonette spam list that I've used before didn't include seekers, I just attached a herald on mount to a Daemonettes unit to give them outflanking so that I could position my assault, and I'll be trying them out for the first time tonight. I'll be interested to hear what other peoples' experiences with them are and I'll post up a quick summary of what happen to mine tonight (my prediction: dakkadakkdakka and then no more seekers, but we'll see). That said, I really do think that Flesh Hounds are the way to go if you're running Fast Attack/Pink Horror spam.
You know what, dude? I think you're right. I cannot see anything which says you cannot shoot your own models. It does seem a little sneaky, but I like it
My prediction with any Seeker use is dakka dakka I need to put them to the test.
Here's what I've been playing around with for the Adepticon Friendly event (FW allowed, 1500 points). It's a nurgle theme, so don't tell me to add fateweaver or seekers. ;p
Options 1:
HQ: Great Unclean One
2x Major Gifts
Psyker Level 2
Fast attack: 7 plague drones, plaguebringer w/ minor gift, rot proboscis, icon
Fast Attack: FW Blight Drone (125 points, does not count as daemon of nurgle)
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle
I haven't played a huge number of test games, but I've not lost one yet, and have beat ravenwing, and shooty GK though never by large margins. It's very light on scoring units though. I typically deploy the plaguedrone unit with princes behind them, and they can get in the opponent's face turn 2, as well as getting the GUO off the drone icon (2 rolls to get him in on turn 2, because I roll for the instrument bearers first). The drones can soak a huge amount of fire and still deliver the champion and icon where I want them.
But, there's a lot that can go wrong. If the big daemons don't roll the good gifts and powers they're not that hard to kill, and there's just the one scoring unit.
In order to shore up some of these problems, I'd cut the blight drone for an extra unit of plague bearers. It deprives me of most of my shooting, including the large template, but means i'm not totally dependent on having that one scoring unit survive everything. That leaves a few points leftover, which will probably go to buying more mastery levels for the big guys, increasing the chances to get iron arm. Also, picking up a minor gift for some of the guys which will probably be a weapon. (and definitely if I roll Hellfire Gaze as a major)
Redbeard wrote: Here's what I've been playing around with for the Adepticon Friendly event (FW allowed, 1500 points). It's a nurgle theme, so don't tell me to add fateweaver or seekers. ;p
Options 1:
HQ: Great Unclean One
2x Major Gifts
Psyker Level 2
Fast attack: 7 plague drones, plaguebringer w/ minor gift, rot proboscis, icon
Fast Attack: FW Blight Drone (125 points, does not count as daemon of nurgle)
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle
I haven't played a huge number of test games, but I've not lost one yet, and have beat ravenwing, and shooty GK though never by large margins. It's very light on scoring units though. I typically deploy the plaguedrone unit with princes behind them, and they can get in the opponent's face turn 2, as well as getting the GUO off the drone icon (2 rolls to get him in on turn 2, because I roll for the instrument bearers first). The drones can soak a huge amount of fire and still deliver the champion and icon where I want them.
But, there's a lot that can go wrong. If the big daemons don't roll the good gifts and powers they're not that hard to kill, and there's just the one scoring unit.
In order to shore up some of these problems, I'd cut the blight drone for an extra unit of plague bearers. It deprives me of most of my shooting, including the large template, but means i'm not totally dependent on having that one scoring unit survive everything. That leaves a few points leftover, which will probably go to buying more mastery levels for the big guys, increasing the chances to get iron arm. Also, picking up a minor gift for some of the guys which will probably be a weapon. (and definitely if I roll Hellfire Gaze as a major)
Not sure if those changes are worth it though, having the blight drone is kinda fun.
Nurlgings can't take objectives due to swarm rule so you'd only have 1 scoring unit...
Take the Portaglyph always especially in low point game where you then can chip off points for troops, and use the spawned ones as scoring instead.
I'd presonally just deepstrike a unit of plaguebearers into enemy lines and then use the icon to guide the GUO to deekstrike without scattering.
Not sure how good drones are as I don't have the models yet...
Daemon Princes haven't been very good for me so far.
They do soak a lot of fire but don't really do much besides that because mine barely got into CC, and they can be instagibbed by any MC.
mercer wrote:How are the Princes doing for you? I have been thinking of ditching some Horrors in my list and giving them biomancy for a lol.
So far, they're doing pretty well. Slow&Purposeful isn't really hurting, although it would be nice to have the chance to sweeping advance sometimes, I'm facing more units that can't be swept than that can, so forcing them to run isn't the worst thing in the world. Shrouding means I can get them a 2+ save sometimes, and a 3+ easily. The mobility is nice.
The psychic stuff is hit or miss. I still have a hard time with the idea that any generic librarian can be better at casting spells than these creatures of the warp.
Makutsu wrote:
Nurlgings can't take objectives due to swarm rule so you'd only have 1 scoring unit...
You don't say. (I actually think I mentioned that too. ) The point is, I have to take two troop choices, and I'm kind of underwhelmed with daemon troops, especially nurgle ones. Nurglings get me a mandatory troop for only 45 points.
Take the Portaglyph always especially in low point game where you then can chip off points for troops, and use the spawned ones as scoring instead.
It's hard to chip points off troops when you're required to take 10 models as a base. And, who exactly should carry this portaglyph? I can see spending 30 points for it, but I can't see losing one of my major gifts as they're the ones that tend to keep my expensive monstrous creatures alive (In spite of always seeming to roll at least one 'warp blast')
I'd presonally just deepstrike a unit of plaguebearers into enemy lines and then use the icon to guide the GUO to deekstrike without scattering.
Not sure how good drones are as I don't have the models yet...
Yup, that's kinda the plan. Drones aren't amazing at anything except taking damage. The plaguebringer, though, can be pretty cool. 4 swings with an AP2 master-crafted weapon that always wounds on 3+ isn't that horrible.
Daemon Princes haven't been very good for me so far.
They do soak a lot of fire but don't really do much besides that because mine barely got into CC, and they can be instagibbed by any MC.
Why are you fighting the things that can instagibb you alone? You can fly, so you usually get to pick the fights. If you're worried about enemy MCs, hit them with both princes at once. 12 S6 AP2 attacks at I8 (plus whatever benefits you're getting from powers and/or gifts) should be enough to take out most MCs. My princes tagteamed a dreadknight in one game, dropping him before he swung.
Good list, however as said you should really bump up your troop choices. I find a large PB squad with FnP herald can really do some damage/tank shooting/deny charges and just be annoying. I personally love the drones, however im not sure if i would use 7 of them? maybe drop one of them for some more PB's in that squad, then something else for a 10 man PB squad for dropping in and taking the objectives. Otherwise looks good IMO.
Well. I played the 'Ard List (see last page) against Space Wolves last night. First loss with the new dex after about 20 games and it was via a tabling . C'est la vie. The table ended up being terrain heavy, with about 70% of the table effectively counting as difficult terrain due to the terrain pieces we had chosen (lots of fenced in roads and elevated blocks of foam and a few big ruins). I had a quarter of my deployment zone walled off by an undesirable piece of terrain, too, but that was largely mitigated by the fact that I got first turn. The Wolves player was using ~14 prescienced Long Fangs w/ missile launchers to toss out twinlinked small blasts, and had four double flamer units in drop pods. It was an absolute and total slaughter, with my Seekers biting it turn 2 to Long Fangs dug in between ruins, a large block of impassable terrain, and an Aegis Defense line. (They killed me in assault before I could even strike back--how ignominious!) Had the game ended turn 5 I would have tied my opponent in VP with only a single Daemonette left on the table to claim an objective. (He had placed his objective way far away from his long fangs in a place he couldn't even get to by the end of the game. That one was a head scratcher and he was cursing himself about it at the end.) It continued to turn 6, however, and my lone, valiant Daemonette finally bought the farm after passing her first 3 invulns against four extremely lucky shots from Drop Pods.
All in all it was a fun game despite the outcome. My friend's wolves list is about the worst possible scenario there is for my 'Ard list, and the terrain was absolutely atrocious for a semi-swarmy army like Daemonette spam. I really felt my lack of assault grenades this time around. The 30 Seekers died as quickly as I expected, and were not able to do any damage at all due to their inability to go first when charging through terrain and the Wolves' two attacks/3 attacks w/ counter charge. I think I'm going to have to learn to just love the warp storm table (read: deal with it) and drop Fateweaver in my swarm list. I'm thinking two units of 20 Seekers might be a bit better, and my Daemonettes did not perform nearly as well in 15 man units as they did when I was running them in 20 man units, so any points left after that will go to bulking them up. I'll post an altered list up tonight.
To get the taste of defeat out of my mouth after my stomping from the Space Wolves I grabbed my Big Stompy Monsters list (last page, same post as my 'Ard List) and played a Big Guns Never Tire mission against termie heavy Grey Knights. Won 9pts to 6 and might very well have tabled him if the game had gone on longer.
Redbeard wrote: Here's what I've been playing around with for the Adepticon Friendly event (FW allowed, 1500 points). It's a nurgle theme, so don't tell me to add fateweaver or seekers. ;p
Options 1:
HQ: Great Unclean One
2x Major Gifts
Psyker Level 2
Fast attack: 7 plague drones, plaguebringer w/ minor gift, rot proboscis, icon
Fast Attack: FW Blight Drone (125 points, does not count as daemon of nurgle)
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle
I haven't played a huge number of test games, but I've not lost one yet, and have beat ravenwing, and shooty GK though never by large margins. It's very light on scoring units though. I typically deploy the plaguedrone unit with princes behind them, and they can get in the opponent's face turn 2, as well as getting the GUO off the drone icon (2 rolls to get him in on turn 2, because I roll for the instrument bearers first). The drones can soak a huge amount of fire and still deliver the champion and icon where I want them.
But, there's a lot that can go wrong. If the big daemons don't roll the good gifts and powers they're not that hard to kill, and there's just the one scoring unit.
In order to shore up some of these problems, I'd cut the blight drone for an extra unit of plague bearers. It deprives me of most of my shooting, including the large template, but means i'm not totally dependent on having that one scoring unit survive everything. That leaves a few points leftover, which will probably go to buying more mastery levels for the big guys, increasing the chances to get iron arm. Also, picking up a minor gift for some of the guys which will probably be a weapon. (and definitely if I roll Hellfire Gaze as a major)
Not sure if those changes are worth it though, having the blight drone is kinda fun.
Nurlgings can't take objectives due to swarm rule so you'd only have 1 scoring unit...
Take the Portaglyph always especially in low point game where you then can chip off points for troops, and use the spawned ones as scoring instead.
I'd presonally just deepstrike a unit of plaguebearers into enemy lines and then use the icon to guide the GUO to deekstrike without scattering.
Not sure how good drones are as I don't have the models yet...
Daemon Princes haven't been very good for me so far.
They do soak a lot of fire but don't really do much besides that because mine barely got into CC, and they can be instagibbed by any MC.
QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings. I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc... I am not sure what the blight drone does. It really comes down to what you like more a blight drone or a daemon prince. One of them would have to become cheaper so you can bring in more troops. As stated the portalglyph might help with this but should not be overtly relied upon.
As for the comment about Daemon princes above. I have found the tzeentch prince to be more of my liking. He is more resilient as a whole and if you get the right powers on these guys it can be a long day for your opponent. The standard daemon prince can charge an orc mob and your opponent will need 5's to hit and 6's to wound. Last game I played with this guy I got 4+ fnp. So my Dprince was 3+ 5++ 4+++. Even though I didnt get to re-roll the FnP it still made me as hard to kill as they get.
You don't say. (I actually think I mentioned that too. ) The point is, I have to take two troop choices, and I'm kind of underwhelmed with daemon troops, especially nurgle ones. Nurglings get me a mandatory troop for only 45 points.
You said you were light on scoring units, and then mentioned later 1 unit, but whatever.
Getting that single unit blasted off is pretty much gameover.
It's hard to chip points off troops when you're required to take 10 models as a base. And, who exactly should carry this portaglyph? I can see spending 30 points for it, but I can't see losing one of my major gifts as they're the ones that tend to keep my expensive monstrous creatures alive (In spite of always seeming to roll at least one 'warp blast')
Blightdrone I have no idea what it does, so it depends on you if you want to chip it off or not.
Chip off 1 Plague drone.
Yeah at 1500 points bringing Soul Grinders seem to be a better idea too and much cheaper.
2 AV13 with 5++, shrugs off 1-3 results, and 2+ - 3+ cover save makes it pretty hard to get rid of.
Yup, that's kinda the plan. Drones aren't amazing at anything except taking damage. The plaguebringer, though, can be pretty cool. 4 swings with an AP2 master-crafted weapon that always wounds on 3+ isn't that horrible.
Plague drones seem pretty strong though looking at their profile.
Why are you fighting the things that can instagibb you alone? You can fly, so you usually get to pick the fights. If you're worried about enemy MCs, hit them with both princes at once. 12 S6 AP2 attacks at I8 (plus whatever benefits you're getting from powers and/or gifts) should be enough to take out most MCs. My princes tagteamed a dreadknight in one game, dropping him before he swung.
I didn't he grounded me and charged me, the other one I was fighting with another unit while he charged me.
And they were wraithlords so it was kinda tough, maybe should have used smash.
But if the MC has any chance to swing back chances are you're going to lost a Daemon Prince to it.
Tomb King wrote:
QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of nurglings either anymore. They're too easily killed without eternal warrior anymore. As for the competitive environment thing, I don't think that's an issue. I'm planning to play this at the Adepticon "Friendly", which shouldn't be a hardcore competitive scene, and is more for thematic players who feel strongly about having units of sevens in their Nurgle armies, and so on...
I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc...
Paladins are scary because of their anti-daemon instant-kill tricks. Normal terminators might not be so bad. On average, the unit will put out 6 wounds, and the champion will put out 2 more at AP2. Against strike-last weapons, they're not S10, so I've got 3 wounds and an invul, and against power weapon ones, I'm still T5, with those wounds. My champion should be as scary for the terminators as they are to me.
I am not sure what the blight drone does. It really comes down to what you like more a blight drone or a daemon prince.
Blight Drone: Flyer, AV12/11/10, can hover, BS2, twin-linked autocannon and soul-grinder mouth shooting options (it can use the S8 AP3 big blast and the S6AP4 template)
As for the comment about Daemon princes above. I have found the tzeentch prince to be more of my liking. He is more resilient as a whole and if you get the right powers on these guys it can be a long day for your opponent. The standard daemon prince can charge an orc mob and your opponent will need 5's to hit and 6's to wound. Last game I played with this guy I got 4+ fnp. So my Dprince was 3+ 5++ 4+++. Even though I didnt get to re-roll the FnP it still made me as hard to kill as they get.
Yeah, and he can sweeping advance the small handful of units in the game that are still susceptible to that. But the tzeentch prince isn't nurgle, right
Makutsu wrote:
You said you were light on scoring units, and then mentioned later 1 unit, but whatever.
Getting that single unit blasted off is pretty much gameover.
You'd think so, but you can kill enemy units and contest too. I've been remarkably consistent getting first blood so far, and the GUO is not an easy warlord to kill (and can drop into your opponent's deployment zone for linebreaker too)
Yeah at 1500 points bringing Soul Grinders seem to be a better idea too and much cheaper.
I agree, soulgrinders look nice. Unfortunately, the event is next weekend, and my soul grinders aren't painted to go with my nurgle stuff (last edition, they didn't follow any god).
I didn't he grounded me and charged me, the other one I was fighting with another unit while he charged me.
I'm not sure that flying is the optimal way to run princes in this list, unless I can get somewhere completely out of line-of-sight. With Shrouded, I'm okay advancing behind the plague drones and getting the good cover save (and hopefully there's 4+ somewhere too). The "fall out of the sky" tests have been brutal when I've tried flying, and the S9 hit that results has put more wounds on me than my opponent's shooting. Since they only need to hit to trigger that, I've shied away from flying, at least in the early turns when there are a lot of guns, and saved flying for later, when there's not so much trying to knock me out of the air and I need to cross the field to the objective.
Redbeard wrote: I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc...
Aha, i find the opposite here. IMO plaguedrones with your loadout are pretty good aginst elite 2+ guys. Since probiscis is not actually a "weapon/sword", it does not replace an aetherblade on your unit champ giving him effectively a 3+ rerollable AP2 sword, auto-killing 2-3 of those guys per turn. Put on top of that HoW attacks (could get lucky) and everyone elses poison rerolls, they should deal with these sorts of small elite squads in about 1-2 combat phases tops. This is yet another way they can be pain in the . Did i mention all their fancy power weapons dont do much and wound on 5's, or with hammers/fists they will hit last, probably meaning their dead
'Ard List Herald of Slaanesh w/ Mount: 60pts
6*20 Daemonettes, 3 units w/ Icons: 1110pts
3*10 Seekers w/ Icons: 390pts
Chaos Sorcerer: 60pts
18 Chaos Cultists: 82pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Comms: 70pts
1999+1pts
I dropped Fateweaver because I felt he was dragging this particular list down, then retooled my army to the above. This list is about as close to a swarm as you're going to get without sacrificing all potential of ever hurting a Land Raider. I have 120 Daemonettes who can deepstrike in a daisy chain down a flank (w/ one unit outflanking due to Herald) or on top of three separate Seekers units, giving me four potential threat vectors to drop down on. The army will start with everything but the Obliterators doing its best to hide out of line of sight of the enemy. The cultists will generally hide next to the Comms, giving me re-rolls for my reserves, while the Oblits and Sorcerer (rolling telepathy for Invis for one of the better maledictions, hopefully) will try to pop vehicles/do as much damage as possible until they die. The Seekers units will charge up as far as possible first turn to give me extra angles of attack. With their small unit sizes I should be able to take enough advantage of terrain to get one or two icons close to the enemy. If all doesn't go to pot first turn I ought to get 80 to 100 Daemonettes dropping right next to my enemy second turn with the other 20 to 40 dropping down the turn after. Even if it does go to pot and none of my Seekers make it forward I still have the outflanking Daemonette unit to start my deepstrike chain off of.
14/14/14 spam does concern me a bit but, given the nature of those lists, I think that I'll still have a decent chance of winning via scenario due to the 138 scoring troops I put onto the table.
What do you guys think? Stronger or weaker than my previous list?
Tomb King wrote:
QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of nurglings either anymore. They're too easily killed without eternal warrior anymore. As for the competitive environment thing, I don't think that's an issue. I'm planning to play this at the Adepticon "Friendly", which shouldn't be a hardcore competitive scene, and is more for thematic players who feel strongly about having units of sevens in their Nurgle armies, and so on...
I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc...
Paladins are scary because of their anti-daemon instant-kill tricks. Normal terminators might not be so bad. On average, the unit will put out 6 wounds, and the champion will put out 2 more at AP2. Against strike-last weapons, they're not S10, so I've got 3 wounds and an invul, and against power weapon ones, I'm still T5, with those wounds. My champion should be as scary for the terminators as they are to me.
I am not sure what the blight drone does. It really comes down to what you like more a blight drone or a daemon prince.
Blight Drone: Flyer, AV12/11/10, can hover, BS2, twin-linked autocannon and soul-grinder mouth shooting options (it can use the S8 AP3 big blast and the S6AP4 template)
As for the comment about Daemon princes above. I have found the tzeentch prince to be more of my liking. He is more resilient as a whole and if you get the right powers on these guys it can be a long day for your opponent. The standard daemon prince can charge an orc mob and your opponent will need 5's to hit and 6's to wound. Last game I played with this guy I got 4+ fnp. So my Dprince was 3+ 5++ 4+++. Even though I didnt get to re-roll the FnP it still made me as hard to kill as they get.
Yeah, and he can sweeping advance the small handful of units in the game that are still susceptible to that. But the tzeentch prince isn't nurgle, right
Makutsu wrote:
You said you were light on scoring units, and then mentioned later 1 unit, but whatever.
Getting that single unit blasted off is pretty much gameover.
You'd think so, but you can kill enemy units and contest too. I've been remarkably consistent getting first blood so far, and the GUO is not an easy warlord to kill (and can drop into your opponent's deployment zone for linebreaker too)
Yeah at 1500 points bringing Soul Grinders seem to be a better idea too and much cheaper.
I agree, soulgrinders look nice. Unfortunately, the event is next weekend, and my soul grinders aren't painted to go with my nurgle stuff (last edition, they didn't follow any god).
I didn't he grounded me and charged me, the other one I was fighting with another unit while he charged me.
I'm not sure that flying is the optimal way to run princes in this list, unless I can get somewhere completely out of line-of-sight. With Shrouded, I'm okay advancing behind the plague drones and getting the good cover save (and hopefully there's 4+ somewhere too). The "fall out of the sky" tests have been brutal when I've tried flying, and the S9 hit that results has put more wounds on me than my opponent's shooting. Since they only need to hit to trigger that, I've shied away from flying, at least in the early turns when there are a lot of guns, and saved flying for later, when there's not so much trying to knock me out of the air and I need to cross the field to the objective.
I recognized it was a fluffy list. Fluffy list can still be competitive. As for the prince comments those were directed @ Makutsu. The blight drone seems interesting. The best part is it is cheap for what it provides. If you have to drop one I would drop one of the princes and give the drone a whirl. Your list could use some shooting and the template weapon can get your opponent off of some objectives. Plus as you stated you like running it and that is the focus when running fluffy list is it not?
'Ard List Herald of Slaanesh w/ Mount: 60pts
6*20 Daemonettes, 3 units w/ Icons: 1110pts
3*10 Seekers w/ Icons: 390pts
Chaos Sorcerer: 60pts
18 Chaos Cultists: 82pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Comms: 70pts
1999+1pts
I dropped Fateweaver because I felt he was dragging this particular list down, then retooled my army to the above. This list is about as close to a swarm as you're going to get without sacrificing all potential of ever hurting a Land Raider. I have 120 Daemonettes who can deepstrike in a daisy chain down a flank (w/ one unit outflanking due to Herald) or on top of three separate Seekers units, giving me four potential threat vectors to drop down on. The army will start with everything but the Obliterators doing its best to hide out of line of sight of the enemy. The cultists will generally hide next to the Comms, giving me re-rolls for my reserves, while the Oblits and Sorcerer (rolling telepathy for Invis for one of the better maledictions, hopefully) will try to pop vehicles/do as much damage as possible until they die. The Seekers units will charge up as far as possible first turn to give me extra angles of attack. With their small unit sizes I should be able to take enough advantage of terrain to get one or two icons close to the enemy. If all doesn't go to pot first turn I ought to get 80 to 100 Daemonettes dropping right next to my enemy second turn with the other 20 to 40 dropping down the turn after. Even if it does go to pot and none of my Seekers make it forward I still have the outflanking Daemonette unit to start my deepstrike chain off of.
14/14/14 spam does concern me a bit but, given the nature of those lists, I think that I'll still have a decent chance of winning via scenario due to the 138 scoring troops I put onto the table.
What do you guys think? Stronger or weaker than my previous list?
Quick note Invisibility is ML 2 so you wont be able to get that power. List notes. It looks tough. However, note that your army is a glass hammer. With 5++ saves only. If you roll a 4 on the chart then that turns into a 6++ for a turn and can possibly lose you the game. Your list will probably have issues with horde orks or nids as they can match you number to number and both come with a lot of dakka that can bring down t3. Aircrons might also give you some fits but they wont be able to kill enough of your guys. It has the looks of a solid list. The armies that might give you hell in precedences:
1. Green Tide Orks
2. Grey Knights
3. Tyranids
4. Mech IG 5. Venom Spam DE (rare these days)
Some would argue tau but all you need is 5 models to get the charge off to win that fight. Of and of course other daemon armies with better saves. People utilizing the grimiore and/or forewarning will give you fits.
'Ard List Herald of Slaanesh w/ Mount: 60pts
6*20 Daemonettes, 3 units w/ Icons: 1110pts
3*10 Seekers w/ Icons: 390pts
Chaos Sorcerer: 60pts
18 Chaos Cultists: 82pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Comms: 70pts
1999+1pts
I dropped Fateweaver because I felt he was dragging this particular list down, then retooled my army to the above. This list is about as close to a swarm as you're going to get without sacrificing all potential of ever hurting a Land Raider. I have 120 Daemonettes who can deepstrike in a daisy chain down a flank (w/ one unit outflanking due to Herald) or on top of three separate Seekers units, giving me four potential threat vectors to drop down on. The army will start with everything but the Obliterators doing its best to hide out of line of sight of the enemy. The cultists will generally hide next to the Comms, giving me re-rolls for my reserves, while the Oblits and Sorcerer (rolling telepathy for Invis for one of the better maledictions, hopefully) will try to pop vehicles/do as much damage as possible until they die. The Seekers units will charge up as far as possible first turn to give me extra angles of attack. With their small unit sizes I should be able to take enough advantage of terrain to get one or two icons close to the enemy. If all doesn't go to pot first turn I ought to get 80 to 100 Daemonettes dropping right next to my enemy second turn with the other 20 to 40 dropping down the turn after. Even if it does go to pot and none of my Seekers make it forward I still have the outflanking Daemonette unit to start my deepstrike chain off of.
14/14/14 spam does concern me a bit but, given the nature of those lists, I think that I'll still have a decent chance of winning via scenario due to the 138 scoring troops I put onto the table.
What do you guys think? Stronger or weaker than my previous list?
Quick note Invisibility is ML 2 so you wont be able to get that power. List notes. It looks tough. However, note that your army is a glass hammer. With 5++ saves only. If you roll a 4 on the chart then that turns into a 6++ for a turn and can possibly lose you the game. Your list will probably have issues with horde orks or nids as they can match you number to number and both come with a lot of dakka that can bring down t3. Aircrons might also give you some fits but they wont be able to kill enough of your guys. It has the looks of a solid list. The armies that might give you hell in precedences:
1. Green Tide Orks
2. Grey Knights
3. Tyranids
4. Mech IG 5. Venom Spam DE (rare these days)
Some would argue tau but all you need is 5 models to get the charge off to win that fight. Of and of course other daemon armies with better saves. People utilizing the grimiore and/or forewarning will give you fits.
Ah! You're right. It's a tossup between biomancy and telepathy depending on my mood/the situation, then. The inability to get Invisibility sort of stinks. The Sorcerer was a tax for the backfield scoring unit and the oblits, in this situation, anyways, though, so anything it does at all is good as far as I'm concerned. I still might go back to three soul grinders, but I really don't like putting such huge armored targets into a list that brings no other armor/high toughness models to confuse target priority with. The oblits, at least, can hide out if the need arises.
As to the hard matchups, I definitely agree about the Orks/Tyranids and the Venoms, but I'm not sure about the Mech IG and the Grey Knights. I haven't played against Mech IG much, so I am probably off, but a 20 man Daemonette unit going against a Guard vehicle's rear armor should do fairly well. This is assuming that the guard don't just eat the Daemonettes for breakfast before they can do anything, but 150 (Daemonettes/Seekers) wounds is a lot to have to chew through in a short number of turns. With Grey Knights, I think it might depend on the list my enemy brings. The only regular Grey Knights player I run up against plays a Paladin/Termie spam list, and I am fairly confident that he wouldn't be able to handle that many fast rending models.
I view Venom Spam as a lost cause, honestly, and Tyranids (if anyone I knew played them) look like they'd be a great counter to pretty much any Daemon list out there, but I think with the proper tactics I could go toe to toe with an Ork horde. It would be hard, but if I stacked up on one side of an army and collapsed sideways I'm pretty sure I could pull through. There's a really talented Ork player at my store who usually runs Green Tide and I'm going to see if I can get a game in against him at some point. I was going to use my other list against him, but it might be more worthwhile to try out the semi-horde instead.
Here's another approach for the Nurgle list I'm trying to refine... I cut the psychic powers from the two daemon princes (I seem to roll a lot of 10s trying to cast the spells anyway, so I'm not sure I'm losing much) and used those points to pick up a herald to carry the portaglyph. It manages to keep the Blight Drone around, but needs to use the nurglings to get under 1500 with two troop choices. (I also give up the sacred number of plague bearers, if you're superstitious)
On the plus side, I do have two fast attack and two heavy support options that will also serve as scoring units in some missions
HQ: Great Unclean One (290)
2x Major Gifts
1x Minor Gift
Psyker Level 3
HQ: Herald of Nurgle (100)
Exalted Portaglyph
Greater Locus of nastyness
Troop: 3 nurglings (45)
Troop: 10 plague bearers w/ Instrument (100)
Fast attack: 7 plague drones, plaguebringer w/ minor gift, rot proboscis, icon (359)
Fast Attack: FW Blight Drone (125)
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, wings, mark of nurgle (240)
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, wings, mark of nurgle (240)
Comes to 1499. I'll give this a spin this weekend, but I'm thinking it has the best balance between models I want to use and covering weaknesses.
Tomb King wrote:
QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of nurglings either anymore. They're too easily killed without eternal warrior anymore. As for the competitive environment thing, I don't think that's an issue. I'm planning to play this at the Adepticon "Friendly", which shouldn't be a hardcore competitive scene, and is more for thematic players who feel strongly about having units of sevens in their Nurgle armies, and so on...
So, does this mean you're NOT going to sell me your daemons, then? I'll be over in the Championship with fluffy multiple-of-sixes Slaaneshi Daemons + CSM allies.
I've been very monotheistic in my testing so far, but I'm enjoying Fiends still, and Seekers can be downright absurd. Both are VERY fragile, barring one or more of the really good Blessings, but they are extremely quick and can hit like a ton of bricks. Seekers, though, are taking some getting used to - they have such a huge "footprint" on the board that even a single unit of 18 gets in my way often; it's worse in Hammer & Anvil, as keeping properly spaced to avoid blasts becomes challenging - the unit is wider than the board.
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Troops
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
Fast Attack
13 x Flesh Hounds
13 x Flesh Hounds
Heavy Support
Soul Grinder daemon of tzeentch & phelgm bombardment
Soul Grinder daemon of tzeentch & phelgm bombardment
Total is just under 2k, so still got some points to burn up.
No need when I can fit it all in anyway. Plus I've tried the Keeper before and it's a bit meh. Will also be the only ground monster too and isn't going to add anything the Princes aren't doing already.
Janthkin wrote: If you swap one of those Princes for the Keeper, it fits in a single org chart, too.
I'm not sure it would fit. I'm assuming the following:
1. He has three DPs of Slaanesh in the HQ slot.
2. He swaps one for a Keeper of Secrets also in HQ, still three units in the HQ slot.
3. He moves one of the remaining DPs to a Heavy slot (the only one open, as the other two are occupied by Soulgrinders
4. This leaves two units in HQ (Keeper and one Prince), and three in Heavy (two 'Grinders and one DP).
If that is correct, I don't think it's legal. Adding a greater daemon of a specific god doesn't let you choose to put a matching DP into a HQ or Heavy slot. It requires that ALL matching DPs become Heavy Support.
Janthkin wrote: If you swap one of those Princes for the Keeper, it fits in a single org chart, too.
I'm not sure it would fit. I'm assuming the following:
1. He has three DPs of Slaanesh in the HQ slot.
2. He swaps one for a Keeper of Secrets also in HQ, still three units in the HQ slot.
3. He moves one of the remaining DPs to a Heavy slot (the only one open, as the other two are occupied by Soulgrinders
4. This leaves two units in HQ (Keeper and one Prince), and three in Heavy (two 'Grinders and one DP).
If that is correct, I don't think it's legal. Adding a greater daemon of a specific god doesn't let you choose to put a matching DP into a HQ or Heavy slot. It requires that ALL matching DPs become Heavy Support.
True, that; he'd have to change the marks on one of the Princes.
I've been enjoying the Keeper. He doesn't have the same mobility a winged Prince, true, but the difference between T5 & T6 is nontrivial all by itself, plus the extra wound, plus the additional attacks, and he's mobile enough to hide from shooting as & when needed. Plus mine is already painted, which is a big plus from my perspective.
Janthkin wrote: If you swap one of those Princes for the Keeper, it fits in a single org chart, too.
I'm not sure it would fit. I'm assuming the following:
1. He has three DPs of Slaanesh in the HQ slot.
2. He swaps one for a Keeper of Secrets also in HQ, still three units in the HQ slot.
3. He moves one of the remaining DPs to a Heavy slot (the only one open, as the other two are occupied by Soulgrinders
4. This leaves two units in HQ (Keeper and one Prince), and three in Heavy (two 'Grinders and one DP).
If that is correct, I don't think it's legal. Adding a greater daemon of a specific god doesn't let you choose to put a matching DP into a HQ or Heavy slot. It requires that ALL matching DPs become Heavy Support.
True, that; he'd have to change the marks on one of the Princes.
I've been enjoying the Keeper. He doesn't have the same mobility a winged Prince, true, but the difference between T5 & T6 is nontrivial all by itself, plus the extra wound, plus the additional attacks, and he's mobile enough to hide from shooting as & when needed. Plus mine is already painted, which is a big plus from my perspective.
I have like a professionally painted keeper of secrets. Still cant bring myself to run him. Also have a greater unclean one to the same standard. If I ever want fluffy list I might field them but other than that there are better hq's for the job. At least the GUO can just deny slay the warlord out right.
ADL with Icarus Lascannon (manned by Bloodletters).
I played a Tau list that looked like this:
Commander - lots of upgrades (irridium suit, multi-spectrum suite (unit ignores cover if he doesn't shoot), command control node (unit is twin-linked if he doesn't shoot), and some others including the one that grants skyfire.
Crisis suit team (not sure if these were commander bodyguards or just a normal crisis team. These were armed with missle pods and plasma.
Riptide suit
3x 10 Firewarriors in Devilfish
Pathfinder team with special character in a Devilfish
Broadside team (2 suites) and missile drones ( 4 I think ).
Hammerhead with Rail Cannon
I went first and left Fateweaver in a stupid position. My opponent was able to seize, which initially made me think the game was lost, as Fateweaver was sitting more or less in the open, on the ground without the benefit of the grimiore. However, due to him deploying a bit back in his area, he wasn't able to get good enough range to bring a lot of firepower to bear on Fateweaver, and I got lucky when he rolled a 1 to wound with his Hammerhead. In that first round of his shooting he managed to just kill a couple of horrors.
I got First Blood by killing the Hammerhead with shooting from Fateweaver, also killed a bunch of stuff with Psychic shrieks from the DPs. He wasted an entire turn of his army's shooting on Fatewaver, just trying to ground him. My dice were a bit hot and I made every grounding save but one, which I was able to re-roll due to Fateweaver's ability. Throughout the entire game, that re-roll was key in so many areas. Whether it was smoothing out Portalglyph rolls, or Grounding tests, or avoiding Perils when casting, I'm not running a Daemon list without the two-headed turkey.
The Princes pulled their weight as well. I got a bit lucky with Rewards and got Str 8, AP 1 Lance shots on two of them. These let me ID his crisis suits. The FNP 4+ on one of them, combined with rerolling 1s on the 3+ armor save was amazing.
I pulled out a win. Although he had the 1 point objective at the end (we played The Scouring) and I had none due to some questionable tankshocks on his part. I had Linebreaker, First Blood and Slay the Warlord, while he had only Linebreaker. Two of his scoring units were wiped by Warpflame after losing most of the unit to Flickering Fire.
At the end of the game I still had Fateweaver, two DPs, my Herald and his squad of Horrors, the Plaguebearers and the portalglyph. He had two slightly damaged Devilfish and two squads of two firewarriors. If the game had gone on one more turn, he likely would have been tabled.
ADL with Icarus Lascannon (manned by Bloodletters).
I played a Tau list that looked like this:
Commander - lots of upgrades (irridium suit, multi-spectrum suite (unit ignores cover if he doesn't shoot), command control node (unit is twin-linked if he doesn't shoot), and some others including the one that grants skyfire.
Crisis suit team (not sure if these were commander bodyguards or just a normal crisis team. These were armed with missle pods and plasma.
Riptide suit
3x 10 Firewarriors in Devilfish
Pathfinder team with special character in a Devilfish
Broadside team (2 suites) and missile drones ( 4 I think ).
Hammerhead with Rail Cannon
I went first and left Fateweaver in a stupid position. My opponent was able to seize, which initially made me think the game was lost, as Fateweaver was sitting more or less in the open, on the ground without the benefit of the grimiore. However, due to him deploying a bit back in his area, he wasn't able to get good enough range to bring a lot of firepower to bear on Fateweaver, and I got lucky when he rolled a 1 to wound with his Hammerhead. In that first round of his shooting he managed to just kill a couple of horrors.
I got First Blood by killing the Hammerhead with shooting from Fateweaver, also killed a bunch of stuff with Psychic shrieks from the DPs. He wasted an entire turn of his army's shooting on Fatewaver, just trying to ground him. My dice were a bit hot and I made every grounding save but one, which I was able to re-roll due to Fateweaver's ability. Throughout the entire game, that re-roll was key in so many areas. Whether it was smoothing out Portalglyph rolls, or Grounding tests, or avoiding Perils when casting, I'm not running a Daemon list without the two-headed turkey.
The Princes pulled their weight as well. I got a bit lucky with Rewards and got Str 8, AP 1 Lance shots on two of them. These let me ID his crisis suits. The FNP 4+ on one of them, combined with rerolling 1s on the 3+ armor save was amazing.
I pulled out a win. Although he had the 1 point objective at the end (we played The Scouring) and I had none due to some questionable tankshocks on his part. I had Linebreaker, First Blood and Slay the Warlord, while he had only Linebreaker. Two of his scoring units were wiped by Warpflame after losing most of the unit to Flickering Fire.
At the end of the game I still had Fateweaver, two DPs, my Herald and his squad of Horrors, the Plaguebearers and the portalglyph. He had two slightly damaged Devilfish and two squads of two firewarriors. If the game had gone on one more turn, he likely would have been tabled.
Looks like you made a pretty good run. I have to concur fateweavers ability to re-roll one dice in every player turn is irreplacable. It has saved my bacon on more then one occasion. It is kind of funny how much one dice roll can effect the game. You get a good representation of this when using him. As for the daemon princes the 4+ FnP is always a nice one to secure. Its silly to have a prince with a 2+ equivalent save and the ability to ignore half the wounds that make it through. How did you bring down his riptide?
ADL with Icarus Lascannon (manned by Bloodletters).
I played a Tau list that looked like this:
Commander - lots of upgrades (irridium suit, multi-spectrum suite (unit ignores cover if he doesn't shoot), command control node (unit is twin-linked if he doesn't shoot), and some others including the one that grants skyfire.
Crisis suit team (not sure if these were commander bodyguards or just a normal crisis team. These were armed with missle pods and plasma.
Riptide suit
3x 10 Firewarriors in Devilfish
Pathfinder team with special character in a Devilfish
Broadside team (2 suites) and missile drones ( 4 I think ).
Hammerhead with Rail Cannon
I went first and left Fateweaver in a stupid position. My opponent was able to seize, which initially made me think the game was lost, as Fateweaver was sitting more or less in the open, on the ground without the benefit of the grimiore. However, due to him deploying a bit back in his area, he wasn't able to get good enough range to bring a lot of firepower to bear on Fateweaver, and I got lucky when he rolled a 1 to wound with his Hammerhead. In that first round of his shooting he managed to just kill a couple of horrors.
I got First Blood by killing the Hammerhead with shooting from Fateweaver, also killed a bunch of stuff with Psychic shrieks from the DPs. He wasted an entire turn of his army's shooting on Fatewaver, just trying to ground him. My dice were a bit hot and I made every grounding save but one, which I was able to re-roll due to Fateweaver's ability. Throughout the entire game, that re-roll was key in so many areas. Whether it was smoothing out Portalglyph rolls, or Grounding tests, or avoiding Perils when casting, I'm not running a Daemon list without the two-headed turkey.
The Princes pulled their weight as well. I got a bit lucky with Rewards and got Str 8, AP 1 Lance shots on two of them. These let me ID his crisis suits. The FNP 4+ on one of them, combined with rerolling 1s on the 3+ armor save was amazing.
I pulled out a win. Although he had the 1 point objective at the end (we played The Scouring) and I had none due to some questionable tankshocks on his part. I had Linebreaker, First Blood and Slay the Warlord, while he had only Linebreaker. Two of his scoring units were wiped by Warpflame after losing most of the unit to Flickering Fire.
At the end of the game I still had Fateweaver, two DPs, my Herald and his squad of Horrors, the Plaguebearers and the portalglyph. He had two slightly damaged Devilfish and two squads of two firewarriors. If the game had gone on one more turn, he likely would have been tabled.
Looks like you made a pretty good run. I have to concur fateweavers ability to re-roll one dice in every player turn is irreplacable. It has saved my bacon on more then one occasion. It is kind of funny how much one dice roll can effect the game. You get a good representation of this when using him. As for the daemon princes the 4+ FnP is always a nice one to secure. Its silly to have a prince with a 2+ equivalent save and the ability to ignore half the wounds that make it through. How did you bring down his riptide?
Exalted for fateweavers re roll, it has also saved my bacon more times then I can count, in one game against a tourny level player using RW with salvo banner spam he shot everything at fatey trying to ground him, I failed one grounding test early on and used the re roll, I was counting up the passed grounding tests and passed saves (darn 3 plus invul, passed grimure and got -1 to invuls :(). In the end I passed 9 grounding tests which if I had failed on the 3 grounding test without the re roll I am sure he would have been dead by then.
As for games, i have played quite a few, over 10 for sure and have yet to lose, come close yesterday but opponent decided to leave end of turn 5 without finishing the turn and without rolling to see if it continued, I dont think he liked the fact I insta killed his bloodthirster... was running at 2k so higher then normal but using roughly the same lists. I have a 1.5k point game tomorrow and thinking of running this
Lord of change, 2 greater rewards, 1 lesser reward, ML 3 Warlord
Herald of Tzeentch, ML2 exalted reward (grimouire) Locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch, ML2 exalted reward (portalglpyh) Locus of conjuration
17 Horrors
17 Horrors
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, wings armour, 2 greater rewards ML2
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, wings armour, 2 greater rewards ML2
Yes I would like to get more horrors in case I lose 2 I lose a d6 of shots, the herald will roll once on divi (prescience) then take flickering fire. Reason for LoC over fatey for this game is the lack of units I have, I think I would rather have a jack of trades for this game rather then just fateweaver flying around using PSA and malediciting/blessing units, at least the LoC can hold his own in CC along with the two DP's
I am playing a three way game against Nids and orks I think, mission is relic, so a big free for all in the middle. Perfect game to use slaanesh really, except I dont own or use anything other then tzeentch !
Tomb King wrote: Looks like you made a pretty good run. I have to concur fateweavers ability to re-roll one dice in every player turn is irreplacable. It has saved my bacon on more then one occasion. It is kind of funny how much one dice roll can effect the game. You get a good representation of this when using him. As for the daemon princes the 4+ FnP is always a nice one to secure. Its silly to have a prince with a 2+ equivalent save and the ability to ignore half the wounds that make it through. How did you bring down his riptide?
The Riptide did two wounds to itself via failed Overcharge rolls. I then did one via the S:8 Lance Greater Reward from one of the Princes. Fateweaver gave it one wound in CC when the Riptide charged him ( I left Fateweaver on the ground (but buffed by the Grimiore) in the middle of the field serve as an attractive fire magnet in the middle of the game when his Broadsides were dead and his crisis suits and commander were being smashed by the FNPDP). The Riptide then failed to wound Fateweaver and failed combat resolution. I didn't sweep him. The final wound was dealt by a DP with the Lance shot reward while the suit was running for his board edge.
Tomb King wrote: Reason for LoC over fatey for this game is the lack of units I have, I think I would rather have a jack of trades for this game rather then just fateweaver flying around using PSA and malediciting/blessing units, at least the LoC can hold his own in CC along with the two DP's
The problem I see with the LoC is that without the 3+ armor, he's just way too squishy. He'd die to a volume of fire that Fateweaver or a DP would shrug off. Of course you could hit hiim with the Grimoire, but that isn't as reliable without the potential to re-roll it that Fateweaver brings.
For me, Fateweaver is must-have. I was initially disappointed by him when I got the new codex, but I think I've seen the light.
I do know what you mean, when I first started using this list I used the LoC, had good success with him as well, but then I started to use fatey and that was that, the reroll is brilliant, warp storm table re roll can be useful and his powers arent bad, but he sucks in CC and i think he is better in bigger points games, at 1kpts using 2 DP's I think I need another CC threat (with lesser gift staff of change he is str 8 without smashing)
Heavy
Soul grinder of slaanesh
Soul grinder of slaanesh
Total should be 1750pts
Basic idea is to run all but horrors with herald and plagues into the enemys face turn 1, then assault with what is still alive turn 2. Grimoire will boost the hounds. I may change the plagues into more horrors possibly. And depending on match and opponent, may take portaglyph instead of the grimoire.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just Thought up another list with some FMC/MC spam, oh and it's a 2000pts list.
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2x greater
Keeper of Secrets
exalted, greater (takes portaglyph or grimoire for exalted)
Heavy:
DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor
DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor
Total: 2000pts.
So the plan is to try and get the iron arm+ lash combo with the princes for some str7-9 whiping action, if not, then there's loads of other good stuff in the biomancy table Keeper will lead the daemonettes and soak up shots while they advance behind the flesh hounds, that will screen and engage enemies early. Keeper will throw down portaglyph for more troop daemons hopefully. the horrors and plagues are there basically just to take objectives, but horrors can shoot down softer targets (like speeders or small units by focusing loads of fire on a unit with multiple horror units).
Heavy
Soul grinder of slaanesh
Soul grinder of slaanesh
Total should be 1750pts
Basic idea is to run all but horrors with herald and plagues into the enemys face turn 1, then assault with what is still alive turn 2. Grimoire will boost the hounds. I may change the plagues into more horrors possibly. And depending on match and opponent, may take portaglyph instead of the grimoire.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just Thought up another list with some FMC/MC spam, oh and it's a 2000pts list.
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2x greater
Keeper of Secrets
exalted, greater (takes portaglyph or grimoire for exalted)
Heavy:
DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor
DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor
Total: 2000pts.
So the plan is to try and get the iron arm+ lash combo with the princes for some str7-9 whiping action, if not, then there's loads of other good stuff in the biomancy table Keeper will lead the daemonettes and soak up shots while they advance behind the flesh hounds, that will screen and engage enemies early. Keeper will throw down portaglyph for more troop daemons hopefully. the horrors and plagues are there basically just to take objectives, but horrors can shoot down softer targets (like speeders or small units by focusing loads of fire on a unit with multiple horror units).
The keeper of secrets imo is the worst greater daemon in the book. If you are playing 2k points why not just drop it for something else possibly even a khorne prince if you want more speed/MC's. Then you can move the 2 Last princes over to the HQ slot. What is your desired roll for the 2 units of 10 horrors? Plagues camp objectives and the daemonettes advance. Which will the horrors be doing?
The first list looks decent. Personally not a fan of the soul grinders as they are expensive for what your getting but ymmv. Might see if you can fit a herald of slaanesh in there with beguilement to give one of the daemonette squads re-rolls to hit and the ability to snipe off annoying characters like commissars or weak hq's in general.
Horrors are there basically to camp objectives, as i dont have more pb models yet. I could change the keeper in the first list into two heralds of slaanesh on steeds and beguilmet. The other could take portaglyoh and other grimoire.
Will be trying something slightly different with the daemons tonight, opinions?
Lord of Change, 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward Ml3 (mastery level)
Herald of Tzeentch, Ml3, locus of conjuration,
Herald of Tzeentch, Ml3 exalted reward (portalglyph)
Herald of Tzeentch, ml3 exalted reward (grimoure)
Basically dropping out a DP to get some more heralds and slightly better DP's, therefore I have dropped out fateweaver as he is a multiplyer but I feel I would need more FMC's that can wreck face.
The heralds and horrors will go into one big squad, expensive but potentialy horrid. The potential there is for 15 D6 str6 shots re rolling misses to go off at str 6 I can hurt all flyer
My results from Adepticon games. To recap, I was running:
HQ: Great Unclean One (290)
2x Major Gifts
1x Minor Gift
Psyker Level 3
HQ: Herald of Nurgle (100)
Exalted Portaglyph
Greater Locus of nastyness
Troop: 3 nurglings (45)
Troop: 10 plague bearers w/ Instrument (100)
Fast attack: 7 plague drones, plaguebringer w/ minor gift, rot proboscis, icon (359)
Fast Attack: FW Blight Drone (125)
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, wings, mark of nurgle (240)
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, wings, mark of nurgle (240)
Not intended as full battle reports and no pics.
Game one, pickup game vs Necrons
Something like:
Destroyer Lord, mindshackles at least
6 wraiths w/ whips
2 nightscythes w/ 10 warriors
warriors
2 annihilation barges
1 monolith
Things of note:
Plague drones can tank wraiths. Even with a few combat res wounds, they held, my unit champ killed the destroyer lord, and they lasted long enough for the icon to do what it needed to do.
Plaguebearers in cover are good at ignoring necron flyers. Dragons might be a different matter, but they were fine against necrons. Once the GUO arrived, it was all over. He had warp speed and iron arm and a balesword and cleaned out the wraiths and everything else.
40k Friendly tournament, game 1:
Playing versus a space marine army:
shrike
5 assault termies (mixed 2LC, 3 TH/SS)
10 assault marines
2x tacs + razorbacks
stormtalon
thunderfire
scouts+Telion
Again, plague drones tanked, first charging shike&terminators, and then receiving the counter-charge from the assault marines. They take wounds, but dish a few out, the plaguebringer is great in challenges, and last long enough to get the hitters in. Unfortunately, daemons have a lot going on and we ran out of time at the beginning of turn 4. I already had 1st blood and warlord and linebreaker and was mopping up, but he still had a squad on an objective and the plaguebearers hadn't quite got there yet, so it went down as a crushing defeat for me.
Game 2:
Chaos Space Marines in KP game. - This one was all foot marines, of mixed types, and the guy I was playing with was hesitant to counter-charge, so my two daemon princes pretty much singlehandedly killed everything, with fights ending on his turn, or me able to pop them back into cover for good saves. It also seems that most people aren't aware of how defensive grenades add on stealth within 8", which means any cover will give them a 2+ save.
Game 3:
IG, Straken + 47 conscripts + other foot guard and a couple chimera. Lots of lascannons spread around, and a couple of heavy flamers. This one was another that we only finished 3 turns. At least three times during the game, my opponent rapid-fired his conscripts at my plague drones in cover, rolling close to 100 dice and doing nothing (at least once was snap-shots), and only minimally more once they were in assault. At the game's end (well, end of turn 3), my plaguebearers have yet to arrive, but I've contested the other primaries and have linebreaker and first blood, so another victory.
Overall thoughts:
Granted, my games were not part of the big competitive tournament, they were in the friendly, so I didn't expect to face 18 wraiths or 3 helldrakes, so take this as observations from a handful of games, not a definitive statement on the validity of mono-nurgle builds.
Big units of plague drones are unbelievably fast, and get the icon where I want it fairly reliably. It's a chunk of points, but I like them.
Slow&Purposeful hurts most when games end early because you can't run, and also because the I8 princes can't sweeping advance. You have to rely on a decent massacre move to get back to cover.
The Adepticon terrain pieces and placement rules were amazingly good for this army. Each table had six rather large pieces, typically 2 hills, 2 area+LOS-block building and 2 area pieces. Rules had us dice off and alternate placing each piece with its majority in our own table half, and 4 inches from other pieces. I was consistently able to get two large area pieces in the middle of the table, providing the needed resilience for the guys. I can see this army succeeding or failing entirely on what terrain is available and how it is placed. If you can fight from a forest, you win, if you're in the open, you're far easier to gun down.
That said, I drove my guys to more dangerous terrain tests than normal, and would typically set it up so that even the plague drones would launch an assault with the closest model being in terrain. Being able to take the 2+ cover saves against overwatch is well worth the loss of initiative in which you're probably going last anyway.
GUO is amazingly good. I think the most wounds he took all weekend was 2, and with 3 rolls, I had iron arm in 3 of the games and endurance in the one I didn't. Giving him the minor gift proved worthwhile as I could trade 4&5 results from the greater table for an extra attack.
The number of scoring units I had available was never an issue. Getting them to objectives by turn 3 was, but I never felt at risk for not having them, or at the very least, not being able to win on secondaries as my warlord never died and I was taking first blood regularly.
The Blight Drone, despite looking cool, was almost a non-factor and died each game. Unless it gets a rules revamp definitively making it a daemon of Nurgle (with shrouding), it's really not worth taking. The other flyers I faced simply laughed at it before making it go boom. The best defense against flyers I had was being in cover and not dying to them.
MarkyMark wrote: Will be trying something slightly different with the daemons tonight, opinions?
Lord of Change, 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward Ml3 (mastery level)
Herald of Tzeentch, Ml3, locus of conjuration,
Herald of Tzeentch, Ml3 exalted reward (portalglyph)
Herald of Tzeentch, ml3 exalted reward (grimoure)
Basically dropping out a DP to get some more heralds and slightly better DP's, therefore I have dropped out fateweaver as he is a multiplyer but I feel I would need more FMC's that can wreck face.
The heralds and horrors will go into one big squad, expensive but potentialy horrid. The potential there is for 15 D6 str6 shots re rolling misses to go off at str 6 I can hurt all flyer
If the lord of change works for you then roll with it. I just cant replace FW in my competitive builds. That re-roll has me hooked. Its just that amazing when you keep your fliers in the air or avoid a mishap or even the grimiore crapping out on you. As for all the heralds in one unit. Just hope they dont get assaulted. Otherwise you just lost all your shooting and powers in one unit that at the very least will be locked up for the game.
Slow&Purposeful hurts most when games end early because you can't run, and also because the I8 princes can't sweeping advance. You have to rely on a decent massacre move to get back to cover.
QFT! This is one of the main reasons I cant bring myself to take the nurgle princes. It is silly that an I8 models cant sweep a squad. My tzeentch prince has saved my baken several times with a timely auto-sweep of a unit.
Glad you had success with the drones. Being T5 makes them really hard to instant kill. If you can boost their saves then I can see them really giving an army a run for its money.
Sorry to here about the blight drone. The important part is you had fun though. Glad to hear. I think that is the main goal with daemons. They are random and fun.
Thats the thing TK, FW has been a auto include in the last 20 odd games for my daemons, yes the re roll has me hooked as well but in my last game at 1750 I lost two DP's and about to lose the third and fatey just couldnt do much else, it was against mass raider venom DE with shed lot of spinlter cannons, weight of fire just killed me off with poision and str 8 ignoring my iron arm etc. Fatey did kill a few vehicles with bolt of change though!.Sometimes I just think that another FMC that can hold his own in CC would be better then fatey who at best can smash but hitting on 5's and wounding on 2's is ok but with one attack it just isnt where I want to be!.
New list, which means more money to spend, just thought i'd try out the multiple threat list without much psyhic powers
Lord of Change 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
Blood thirster 1 lesser reward 2 greater rewards
10 bloodletters with bloodreaper
10 bloodletters with bloodreaper
10 horrors
10 horrors
Daemon prince, mark of khorne, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of khorne, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of khorne, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
At 1750, gives me some psyhic powers, probably only prescience on LoC and FF, horrors to do some shooting bloodletters to counter charge anything or get up the board. 5 FMC's to do some damage, lessens my relience on psyhic powers which means I'll be able to take on eldar SW a little better
Or with Slaanesh
Lord of Change 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
Keeper of secrets, 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
10 Daemonettes
10 Daemonettes
10 Horrors
10 Horrors
10 Seekers of Slaanesh
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Plan would be to DS the KoS outflank the seekers and run the daemonettes up the table while the FMC's fly up the table, possibly get a comms relay for the cost of something else (horror squad 2?) as turn 2 if everything turns up my opponent has a LOT to shoot at.
Posted this my list to a seperate post a few days ago, but it got no comments. It is basically a flesh hound spam list. Only thing i'm not sure is how it could deal with AV 14 vehicles and it really does not do much against flyers, but what do you guys think? Would this be worth building up?
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2xgreater, 1x lesser
Herald of Khorne
juggernaut, greater locus of fury, exalted reward (portaglyph or grimoire) (joins hounds1)
Herald of Khorne
juggernaut, greater locus of fury, lesser reward (joins hounds2)
Heavy support:
Daemon Prince of khorne
flight, armor, 2x greater
total: 1750pts.
After some thought, i am willing to try a mono Tzeentch list with the following list:
HQ:
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch,
conjuration
psyker lvl 3
portaglyph
Herald of Tzeentch,
conjuration
psyker lvl 3
Troops:
17 horrors
17 horrors
Heavy:
DP of Tzeentch,
flight, armor, 1 lesser, 1 greater
DP of tzeentch,
flight, armor, 1 lesser, 2 greater
DP of Tzeentch,
flight, armor, 1 lesser, 2 greater
ADL
Total: 1746pts.
The ADL will be deployed up to 6" out of my deployment zone as both horror squads with heralds will then move up to it so that their FF will hopefully reach the enemy. They will then sit behind it and just shoot away and if going to receive bucketloads of shooting, they will just GTG and get a rerollable 2+ cover. The three DPs will just fly forward and start ripping stuff apart while Fateweaver will just fly around blasting stuff with his PPs or boost if needed. Will be playtesting this and it is quite a similar list that someone allready posted here, so am exited if this list works. I will propably spawn either plaguebearers or more horrors from the portaglyph.
Actually decided to change the horror units into 17 models strong so that i could buy an additional mastery level for both heralds, so could potentially get something good from divination, like perfect timing, or can just shoot 1d6 more shots of FF with BS4.
Herald of Tzeentch /w Mastery 2, Portalglyph, Chariot of Tzeentch
10x Pink Horrors
10x Pink Horrors
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Warpsmith /w Combi-Flamer
16x Cultists /w Flamer, Autoguns
10x Cultists /w Flamer
Heldrake /w Baleflamer
Forgefiend /w 3x Ectoplasma Cannons
1850
Thematic tzeentch mechanicus army that doesn't sacrifice the killy for the fluffy. Everything just breakdances up the board droppin' twin linked bombs on fools. Warpsmith sits in a squad of cultists bubblewrapping the hellbots, repairing hullpoints, second cultist squad bubblewraps the first, forgefiend and soul grinders do all the heavy lifting. Herald on the chariot zips around putting bolts of change into rear armor and hail marying the portalglyph into opportune locations.
I feel like shooty tzeentch lists can have a lot of potential, since half the warpstorm results are basically bonus shooting as a chaos god reaches down and snap-fires at the entire enemy line. I guess attacking through the warp is a defensive firing action or something.
Enough vehicles skittering up the board hopefully keeps the enemy from firing all the missiles at the portalglyph or chariot herald first turn, plenty of skyfire, Fateweaver does his thing, I feel like its pretty great. The only drawback I've found so far is painting 3 soul grinders.
As an aside, I think when it comes to objective-squatters, cultists can perform the job cheaper and more safely than any of the daemon troops. They're half the cost, can defensive fire with bonus flamers, can take 36" range potshots if you wanna pretend they're helping, and the warpstorm table won't blow them up accidentally.
Herald of Tzeentch /w Mastery 2, Portalglyph, Chariot of Tzeentch
10x Pink Horrors
10x Pink Horrors
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Warpsmith /w Combi-Flamer
16x Cultists /w Flamer, Autoguns
10x Cultists /w Flamer
Heldrake /w Baleflamer
Forgefiend /w 3x Ectoplasma Cannons
1850
Thematic tzeentch mechanicus army that doesn't sacrifice the killy for the fluffy. Everything just breakdances up the board droppin' twin linked bombs on fools. Warpsmith sits in a squad of cultists bubblewrapping the hellbots, repairing hullpoints, second cultist squad bubblewraps the first, forgefiend and soul grinders do all the heavy lifting. Herald on the chariot zips around putting bolts of change into rear armor and hail marying the portalglyph into opportune locations.
I feel like shooty tzeentch lists can have a lot of potential, since half the warpstorm results are basically bonus shooting as a chaos god reaches down and snap-fires at the entire enemy line. I guess attacking through the warp is a defensive firing action or something.
Enough vehicles skittering up the board hopefully keeps the enemy from firing all the missiles at the portalglyph or chariot herald first turn, plenty of skyfire, Fateweaver does his thing, I feel like its pretty great. The only drawback I've found so far is painting 3 soul grinders.
As an aside, I think when it comes to objective-squatters, cultists can perform the job cheaper and more safely than any of the daemon troops. They're half the cost, can defensive fire with bonus flamers, can take 36" range potshots if you wanna pretend they're helping, and the warpstorm table won't blow them up accidentally.
Painting a soul grinders is not that though. I painted mine in around three hours
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of Soul Grinders, here is a list that i thought up just now:
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2x greater
Karanak
Herald of nurgle
Portaglyph
Greater locus of Fecundity (FNP)
Herald of nurgle
Grimoire
Greater locus of Fecundity (FNP)
Troops:
20 plaguebearers
20 plaguebearers
Fast attack:
15 Flesh Hounds
Heavy:
Soul Grinder of Nurgle, Phlegm
Soul Grinder of Nurgle, Phlegm
Soul Grinder of Nurgle, Phlegm
I realize that I have around half of my army tied up with two models (Fateweaver and the DP). I am unlikely to change this.
I'll grab the PortalGlyph on one of the Heralds and the Grimiore on the other. They'll both stay in the Horror Squad to provide more firepower + psychic buffs.
I played a couple of test games against a 1250 dual Flyrant + Tervigon list. The first game was a crushing victory for me, helped by the Nurgle's Rot Warp Storm result (D6 S4 AP:3 4+ poison attacks). I went first and his Flyrants were still on the ground, one of them took 4 wounds and died before he got to do anything with it. The other Flyrant died to massed fire once he got in range.
The second game was close but a loss for me. I made a few mistakes that tipped the game firmly in his favor.
I might remove one of the Heralds, and put the Exalted reward on the DP. Not sure what I'd do with the extra points, possible make room for a Plaguebearer squad.
MarkyMark wrote:Thats the thing TK, FW has been a auto include in the last 20 odd games for my daemons, yes the re roll has me hooked as well but in my last game at 1750 I lost two DP's and about to lose the third and fatey just couldnt do much else, it was against mass raider venom DE with shed lot of spinlter cannons, weight of fire just killed me off with poision and str 8 ignoring my iron arm etc. Fatey did kill a few vehicles with bolt of change though!.Sometimes I just think that another FMC that can hold his own in CC would be better then fatey who at best can smash but hitting on 5's and wounding on 2's is ok but with one attack it just isnt where I want to be!.
New list, which means more money to spend, just thought i'd try out the multiple threat list without much psyhic powers
Lord of Change 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
Blood thirster 1 lesser reward 2 greater rewards
10 bloodletters with bloodreaper
10 bloodletters with bloodreaper
10 horrors
10 horrors
Daemon prince, mark of khorne, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of khorne, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of khorne, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
At 1750, gives me some psyhic powers, probably only prescience on LoC and FF, horrors to do some shooting bloodletters to counter charge anything or get up the board. 5 FMC's to do some damage, lessens my relience on psyhic powers which means I'll be able to take on eldar SW a little better
Alright lets take it from the top. The list is multi-threat but I just cant justify taking a khorne prince over a tzeentch prince with this build. If you are aiming more for the fluffy side then that is fine. The khorne upgrade only gives furious charge and is still only 10pts cheaper then the tzeentch upgrade which vastly improves his survivability. Also as a countercharge unit the blood letters are too small. They are only initiative 4 toughness 3 models with a 5++ and 1 attack a piece. If you want a small counter attack unit I would lean towards the Daemonettes. Also remember that your trying to achieve a good TAC list. So if a rare venom spam build gives you fits then it isnt game breaking. Obviously peoples meta's will vary and you will have to adjust your meta. I have seen people have some luck with Khorne Jugg Heralds as a deathstar. If your wanting khorne those wound not be a bad pick-up. You can even take Skulltaker as one of the heralds on juggernaut for a whopping 145pts.
MarkyMark wrote:
Or with Slaanesh
Lord of Change 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
Keeper of secrets, 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
10 Daemonettes
10 Daemonettes
10 Horrors
10 Horrors
10 Seekers of Slaanesh
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Plan would be to DS the KoS outflank the seekers and run the daemonettes up the table while the FMC's fly up the table, possibly get a comms relay for the cost of something else (horror squad 2?) as turn 2 if everything turns up my opponent has a LOT to shoot at.
I am assuming the princes are running with the whips? I like this list over the two you posted. Though if I run a foot slogging GD then I will be running the GUO. T7 is just so good in combat.
masquerade81 wrote:Posted this my list to a seperate post a few days ago, but it got no comments. It is basically a flesh hound spam list. Only thing i'm not sure is how it could deal with AV 14 vehicles and it really does not do much against flyers, but what do you guys think? Would this be worth building up?
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2xgreater, 1x lesser
Herald of Khorne
juggernaut, greater locus of fury, exalted reward (portaglyph or grimoire) (joins hounds1)
Herald of Khorne
juggernaut, greater locus of fury, lesser reward (joins hounds2)
Heavy support:
Daemon Prince of khorne
flight, armor, 2x greater
total: 1750pts.
After some thought, i am willing to try a mono Tzeentch list with the following list:
HQ:
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch,
conjuration
psyker lvl 3
portaglyph
Herald of Tzeentch,
conjuration
psyker lvl 3
Troops:
17 horrors
17 horrors
Heavy:
DP of Tzeentch,
flight, armor, 1 lesser, 1 greater
DP of tzeentch,
flight, armor, 1 lesser, 2 greater
DP of Tzeentch,
flight, armor, 1 lesser, 2 greater
ADL
Total: 1746pts.
The ADL will be deployed up to 6" out of my deployment zone as both horror squads with heralds will then move up to it so that their FF will hopefully reach the enemy. They will then sit behind it and just shoot away and if going to receive bucketloads of shooting, they will just GTG and get a rerollable 2+ cover. The three DPs will just fly forward and start ripping stuff apart while Fateweaver will just fly around blasting stuff with his PPs or boost if needed. Will be playtesting this and it is quite a similar list that someone allready posted here, so am exited if this list works. I will propably spawn either plaguebearers or more horrors from the portaglyph.
Actually decided to change the horror units into 17 models strong so that i could buy an additional mastery level for both heralds, so could potentially get something good from divination, like perfect timing, or can just shoot 1d6 more shots of FF with BS4.
I personally like the 2nd list better. The first only has two units that reliably threaten enemy armor. Sure the heralds and the hounds could charge in and wreck most enemy vehicles by glancing or rolling a pen on rear armor. The top list will struggle against necrons in particular which are mobile, resilient, and come with flyers to keep you off of their troops. One thing to note on the bottom list I would find the points to get another greater reward on your daemon prince. They are just too good for them to pass up.
Badablack wrote:Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch /w Mastery 2
Herald of Tzeentch /w Mastery 2, Portalglyph, Chariot of Tzeentch
10x Pink Horrors
10x Pink Horrors
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, Phlegm
Warpsmith /w Combi-Flamer
16x Cultists /w Flamer, Autoguns
10x Cultists /w Flamer
Heldrake /w Baleflamer
Forgefiend /w 3x Ectoplasma Cannons
1850
Thematic tzeentch mechanicus army that doesn't sacrifice the killy for the fluffy. Everything just breakdances up the board droppin' twin linked bombs on fools. Warpsmith sits in a squad of cultists bubblewrapping the hellbots, repairing hullpoints, second cultist squad bubblewraps the first, forgefiend and soul grinders do all the heavy lifting. Herald on the chariot zips around putting bolts of change into rear armor and hail marying the portalglyph into opportune locations.
I feel like shooty tzeentch lists can have a lot of potential, since half the warpstorm results are basically bonus shooting as a chaos god reaches down and snap-fires at the entire enemy line. I guess attacking through the warp is a defensive firing action or something.
Enough vehicles skittering up the board hopefully keeps the enemy from firing all the missiles at the portalglyph or chariot herald first turn, plenty of skyfire, Fateweaver does his thing, I feel like its pretty great. The only drawback I've found so far is painting 3 soul grinders.
As an aside, I think when it comes to objective-squatters, cultists can perform the job cheaper and more safely than any of the daemon troops. They're half the cost, can defensive fire with bonus flamers, can take 36" range potshots if you wanna pretend they're helping, and the warpstorm table won't blow them up accidentally.
Your list is a little more themed and fluffy. The only issue I see is a combat heavy army coming at you. Your biggest fear might even be other daemon players or even nids. Once they get you into combat the game is lost. The 3 soul grinders are your only combat threat and they are also your long range shooting threat so that will make your opponents target priority pretty easy. You will be in trouble If you lose your grinders which mind you isn't easy.
MarkyMark wrote:
As an aside, I think when it comes to objective-squatters, cultists can perform the job cheaper and more safely than any of the daemon troops. They're half the cost, can defensive fire with bonus flamers, can take 36" range potshots if you wanna pretend they're helping, and the warpstorm table won't blow them up accidentally. Painting a soul grinders is not that though. I painted mine in around three hours
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of Soul Grinders, here is a list that i thought up just now:
HQ:
Bloodthirster
2x greater
Karanak
Herald of nurgle
Portaglyph
Greater locus of Fecundity (FNP)
Herald of nurgle
Grimoire
Greater locus of Fecundity (FNP)
Troops:
20 plaguebearers
20 plaguebearers
Fast attack:
15 Flesh Hounds
Heavy:
Soul Grinder of Nurgle, Phlegm
Soul Grinder of Nurgle, Phlegm
Soul Grinder of Nurgle, Phlegm
total: 1750pts.
This list could work. Just be mindful of the Grimiore possibly crapping on you and ruining your day. Would suck to advance the dogs and reduce their invuls to 6++ in the process. With only 2 troops you will have to put the portalglyph down somewhere safe to spawn more. Big guns never tire would be a great mission for you as well as purge the alien. My only real worry for this list is 2 troops and the grimiore bugging out on you. Other then that I could see it winning.
undertow wrote:I've got a 1250 tournament at my local battle bunker next week, I'm thinking of using this list:
HQ Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch - Exalted Reward, ML:2, Locus of Conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch - Exalted Reward, ML:2
18 Pink Horrors with Iridescent Horror and Instrument
12 Bloodletters (no upgrades) to man the Icarus Gun in the ADL
I realize that I have around half of my army tied up with two models (Fateweaver and the DP). I am unlikely to change this.
I'll grab the PortalGlyph on one of the Heralds and the Grimiore on the other. They'll both stay in the Horror Squad to provide more firepower + psychic buffs.
I played a couple of test games against a 1250 dual Flyrant + Tervigon list. The first game was a crushing victory for me, helped by the Nurgle's Rot Warp Storm result (D6 S4 AP:3 4+ poison attacks). I went first and his Flyrants were still on the ground, one of them took 4 wounds and died before he got to do anything with it. The other Flyrant died to massed fire once he got in range.
The second game was close but a loss for me. I made a few mistakes that tipped the game firmly in his favor.
I might remove one of the Heralds, and put the Exalted reward on the DP. Not sure what I'd do with the extra points, possible make room for a Plaguebearer squad.
Thoughts?
I have to ask why the Icarus over the quadgun? The quadgun is quite a bit better and if you switch to the quad you can switch to plague marines instead of blood letters. You lose 2 on the BS but gained +1 toughnes, twin linked, poison attacks that can hurt vehicles, and a 2+ cover behind the aegis. If you can find the points. Your list could make good use of the Grimiore and/or portalglyph. Fateweavers re-rolls would make those items actually worthy of taking as the risk is outweighed by the reward. I do not recommend running the grimiore without fateweaver. That chance to hate your life for a turn is just too great.
Tomb King wrote: I have to ask why the Icarus over the quadgun? The quadgun is quite a bit better and if you switch to the quad you can switch to plague marines instead of blood letters. You lose 2 on the BS but gained +1 toughnes, twin linked, poison attacks that can hurt vehicles, and a 2+ cover behind the aegis. If you can find the points. Your list could make good use of the Grimiore and/or portalglyph. Fateweavers re-rolls would make those items actually worthy of taking as the risk is outweighed by the reward. I do not recommend running the grimiore without fateweaver. That chance to hate your life for a turn is just too great.
I like the S:9 AP:2 that the lascannon brings. The higher strength lets me threaten higher armor targets. I'm using it as anti ground armor as well as anti flyer. I could possibly be talked into using Plaguebearers instead of Bloodletters, but the 'letters are there also to spoil charges if I decide to put the Horrors behind the ADL as well.
I am using the Grimoire and Portalglyph, with Fateweaver they're too good to pass up. I've found that if the grimoire goes off I can put Fateweaver in the middle of the table and most of my opponents can't resist shooting at him for at least an entire turn. I had a 2000 point game recently where he took and entire Tau gunline's fire for a turn and not only didn't he get wounded, he didn't get grounded, thanks to a rerolled grounding check.
I changed my list by droping one horror from each squad to take a second greater reward for the last DP, so npw they all got two greaters for survivability and 1 lesser for the staff. Other than that the list stayed the same and is now 1748pts.
HQ:
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch
Psyker lvl 3
portaglyph
Conjuration
I am assuming the princes are running with the whips? I like this list over the two you posted. Though if I run a foot slogging GD then I will be running the GUO. T7 is just so good in combat.
Pretty sure the Keeper is used to make the slaanesh DP heavies. I agree entirely that the GUO>Keeper... but if you want heavy slot Slaanesh DP then you have to go keeper. On the plus side keeper is a fairly safe place to hide the grimoire. slaanesh give him the extra run speed and fleet. 5w T6 is not exactly easy to remove if you only use him to pack the grimoire and hide in cover.
Granted this effectively turns the Grimoire from a 30 point upgrade into a 200 point model... but the keeper CAN be effective in combat as well. you just have to be much more picky about his targets than you do with a GUO
Keeper of secrets, 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
10 Daemonettes
10 Daemonettes
10 Horrors
10 Horrors
10 Seekers of Slaanesh
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Plan would be to DS the KoS outflank the seekers and run the daemonettes up the table while the FMC's fly up the table, possibly get a comms relay for the cost of something else (horror squad 2?) as turn 2 if everything turns up my opponent has a LOT to shoot at.
What is the LoC for? I would say drop him and beef up your nettes by at least 5 each. a 10 man squad of nettes is going to die FAST. another option would be to drop the LoC for some psykic powers on your DP's. Biomancy and Telepathy are both scary good on DP's.
or thirdly go with some ml 1-2 heralds to beef up the nettes or horrors. Slaanesh heralds for Telepathy, and praying for invis. or tzeench heralds for super uber shooty / divination fun.
basically the LoC just seems to be oddballed and points could be much better spent on force multipliers which daemons seem to excel at and you have taken none. 280 points (the way you have him) for 1 LoC for divination (the only reason I can think you would take him in this list) can be swapped out for 4 x ML2 Tzeench Heralds (lots more divination spam) which is exactly.... 280 points!
Alright lets take it from the top. The list is multi-threat but I just cant justify taking a khorne prince over a tzeentch prince with this build. If you are aiming more for the fluffy side then that is fine. The khorne upgrade only gives furious charge and is still only 10pts cheaper then the tzeentch upgrade which vastly improves his survivability. Also as a countercharge unit the blood letters are too small. They are only initiative 4 toughness 3 models with a 5++ and 1 attack a piece. If you want a small counter attack unit I would lean towards the Daemonettes. Also remember that your trying to achieve a good TAC list. So if a rare venom spam build gives you fits then it isnt game breaking. Obviously peoples meta's will vary and you will have to adjust your meta. I have seen people have some luck with Khorne Jugg Heralds as a deathstar. If your wanting khorne those wound not be a bad pick-up. You can even take Skulltaker as one of the heralds on juggernaut for a whopping 145pts.
I am assuming the princes are running with the whips? I like this list over the two you posted. Though if I run a foot slogging GD then I will be running the GUO. T7 is just so good in combat.
10 pts each means 30 pts which I will have to lose a squad and boost up a exsiting squad, true I wasnt impressed when I was charged by 'letters but then I do have a save against them (horrors were charged and lost 3 to 3 charging 'letters). Funnily enough DE venom and splinter cannon spam build gave me my first loss last week in over 25 odd games but that is the first time I have ever played them in 8 months of playing.
I am happy with my Tzeentch daemons list very happy in fact, just wanted to try a few other units in the codex out plus I have run out of things to model and paint so aching for new plastics!.
Yes planning on using the whips, I do like the slaanesh more as its more units and I like the thought of seekers, I would prefer flesh hounds but just couldnt fit them in at 1750, indeed I run the KoS over GUO as I feel the GUO is just too slow and will be ignored a lot, nor am I really interested in plague bearers camping in cover and I feel the nurgle DP's not being able to sweep a big let down really i8 but cant catch anyone!.
I am assuming the princes are running with the whips? I like this list over the two you posted. Though if I run a foot slogging GD then I will be running the GUO. T7 is just so good in combat.
Pretty sure the Keeper is used to make the slaanesh DP heavies. I agree entirely that the GUO>Keeper... but if you want heavy slot Slaanesh DP then you have to go keeper. On the plus side keeper is a fairly safe place to hide the grimoire. slaanesh give him the extra run speed and fleet. 5w T6 is not exactly easy to remove if you only use him to pack the grimoire and hide in cover.
Granted this effectively turns the Grimoire from a 30 point upgrade into a 200 point model... but the keeper CAN be effective in combat as well. you just have to be much more picky about his targets than you do with a GUO
Keeper of secrets, 1 lesser reward, 2 greater rewards
10 Daemonettes
10 Daemonettes
10 Horrors
10 Horrors
10 Seekers of Slaanesh
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Daemon prince, mark of slaanesh, wings, armour, 2 greater rewards
Plan would be to DS the KoS outflank the seekers and run the daemonettes up the table while the FMC's fly up the table, possibly get a comms relay for the cost of something else (horror squad 2?) as turn 2 if everything turns up my opponent has a LOT to shoot at.
What is the LoC for? I would say drop him and beef up your nettes by at least 5 each. a 10 man squad of nettes is going to die FAST. another option would be to drop the LoC for some psykic powers on your DP's. Biomancy and Telepathy are both scary good on DP's.
or thirdly go with some ml 1-2 heralds to beef up the nettes or horrors. Slaanesh heralds for Telepathy, and praying for invis. or tzeench heralds for super uber shooty / divination fun.
basically the LoC just seems to be oddballed and points could be much better spent on force multipliers which daemons seem to excel at and you have taken none. 280 points (the way you have him) for 1 LoC for divination (the only reason I can think you would take him in this list) can be swapped out for 4 x ML2 Tzeench Heralds (lots more divination spam) which is exactly.... 280 points!
LoC as my main force is tzeentch, already have all the models for them, I do usually run mastery level 2 DP's but just wanted to mix it up a bit. The LoC is there over fateweaver, who I usually take, as he is another FMC that can hold his own in CC while still keeping tzeentch feel to the list
Hey everyone, i played daemons all through 5th, then a bit of 6th then new codex, ive been looking through this thread and have seen a lot of lists, with troop squad in sizes of 10 or 12, do people not think that squads should be in bigger squads with the new cheaper costs, ive used a unit of 20 horror's and they were devastating although that said the unit can be reduced in size very quickly and thus reduces their effective quickly and so could be a waste of points, a lot of the list's have been multiple threat overload, i have a tournament coming up and am using my daemons.
i am thinking of taking something like this;
Bloodthirster, greater, greater 290
Herald of tzeentch, exalted locus of conjuration, psyker level 2 - 95
Herald of Khorne, juggernaught, greater locus of fury - 120
5 crusher's, icon - 235
20 horror's - 180
12 plaguebearers - 146
17 daemonettes 162
16 fleshhounds 176
Skull cannon - 125
Total - 1500
what have people been finding good with the new dex when i played a game i found that bloodthirster is AMAZING i even managed to run a squad of grey knights of the table with him, SCARY!! i found crusher's need the herald to survive, skull cannon is good for those hiding in cover from my thirster.
Daemonic_soul1990 wrote: Hey everyone, i played daemons all through 5th, then a bit of 6th then new codex, ive been looking through this thread and have seen a lot of lists, with troop squad in sizes of 10 or 12, do people not think that squads should be in bigger squads with the new cheaper costs, ive used a unit of 20 horror's and they were devastating although that said the unit can be reduced in size very quickly and thus reduces their effective quickly and so could be a waste of points, a lot of the list's have been multiple threat overload, i have a tournament coming up and am using my daemons.
i am thinking of taking something like this;
Bloodthirster, greater, greater 290
Herald of tzeentch, exalted locus of conjuration, psyker level 2 - 95
Herald of Khorne, juggernaught, greater locus of fury - 120
5 crusher's, icon - 235
20 horror's - 180
12 plaguebearers - 146
17 daemonettes 162
16 fleshhounds 176
Skull cannon - 125
Total - 1500
what have people been finding good with the new dex when i played a game i found that bloodthirster is AMAZING i even managed to run a squad of grey knights of the table with him, SCARY!! i found crusher's need the herald to survive, skull cannon is good for those hiding in cover from my thirster.
If you enjoy using horrors, then concider droping four from your group of 20 as 16 shoot as well as 20 do. If they get shot, they will drop below 16 eventually without even concentrated fire. With the saved points take a portaglyph for your herald of Tzeentch and throw it down turn1 and hope to spawn 2-3 new horror units that shoot 2d6 shots even if only 1 model strong Also in late game you could spawn either plaguebearers (if portaglyph is next to an objective) or daemonettes for a 6" move plus d6+3" run move to cap an objective near by. How has the skull cannon worked for you? Still a bit hesitant to get one and try it out. Maybe will proxy it for a few playtests first before buying the model.
The skull cannon works quite well, its large blast with S8 ensures always to cause wound's and with the high BS of 5 makes this quite devastating whenever i have fired, along with ignoring cover. even against marines!, however for me it has been quite fragile, but has lasted long enough to get that important marker down for the assault of my bloodthirster as cover seems to be utilized a lot more in 6th fire bases etc this has lts of targets whenenever i play anyway, portalglyph seems to be a staple for most lists wrote on here, it does seem major 2D6 of one guy and not to bad a range on the shot's free daemons is good.
Daemonic_soul1990 wrote: The skull cannon works quite well, its large blast with S8 ensures always to cause wound's and with the high BS of 5 makes this quite devastating whenever i have fired, along with ignoring cover. even against marines!, however for me it has been quite fragile, but has lasted long enough to get that important marker down for the assault of my bloodthirster as cover seems to be utilized a lot more in 6th fire bases etc this has lts of targets whenenever i play anyway, portalglyph seems to be a staple for most lists wrote on here, it does seem major 2D6 of one guy and not to bad a range on the shot's free daemons is good.
I have looked into the skull cannon but it just seems to fragile for me. Just feel like opponents will shoot it up first turn and kill off my only real shooting threat. The bloodthirster is good but I like my FMC with psychic powers. You got lucky against the GK if they had wounded you once they would instant kill you automatically and they re-roll 1's to hit and to wound on you.
I tried a flying circus variant last night that was beastly. Played against a tough tau list but with all the buffs you can give these princes he was only able to kill one before we called the game.
The tzeentch weapons arent that bad if you get bad rolls on the rewards. Actually killed a riptide and it became a chaos spawn which could soak up some overwatch from the tau. I rolled to try and get iron arm on some of these guys but you can roll the different charts for each match-up. In this particular game I also rolled telepathy. Casting hallucination on a kitted out broadside squad was broken. In addition, his ethereal kept me locked in combat as all his squads were leadership 10. He was unable to shoot my FMC's once they made combat. This list cant be gimicky but will probably do well against most armies out there. Not many can handle 4 FMC barreling across the board.
My sickest combo so far:
DP of Tzeench (+1 WND IWND; 4+ FnP; Corrosive Breath) (Iron Arm; Hallucination; Terrify)
This guy was rolling around the table with T5-8, 3+ 5++ 4+++ save and had the ability to stop my opponents units in their tracks with the psychic powers. In relic I just parked him in the middle against green tide and dared my opponent to try and kill him.
Herald of Tzeentch
Psyker lvl 3
portaglyph
Conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch
Psyker lvl 3
conjuration
Troops:
16 horrors
16 horrors
Heavy support:
DP of tzeentch
wings, armor, 1 lesser, 2 greater
DP of tzeentch
wings, armor, 1 lesser, 2 greater
DP of Tzeentch
wings, armor, 1 lesser, 2 greater
ADL
Total: 1748pts.
Played this list today against a DA mech spam list with PFG trickery. Needless to say it was a slaughter... for the DA He got one DP down to 1 wound and the two others were unharmed. I opted to use horrors behind an ADL and used portaglyph to spawn more horrors each turn. I got first blood and after that didn't care if i spawned easilly killable units. The cost of the horrors and heralds cost so much though, that i could not take mastery levels for the DPS, but they really didn't need them in this mach. We played Scouring with Vanguard strike and i went second. I deployed my FMCs into the corner out of flakk missile reach and horrors a bit to the front. Fateweaver was brought down to two wounds, but was not in real danger of dying. My opponent had 5 twin assault cannon razors, three devastator squads (two with flakks and one with PCs). three tacticals with flakk and plasmagun and two Techmarines with bikes and PFGs to give the tanks the 4++, and two dual MM speeders. We called the game after turn 4 as i had not lost a single thing and my opponent was going to be almost tabled in a turn or two with only scraps left. Will be playtesting this list a bit more and trying out droping the heralds and trying out the mastery levels on the princes. But now i rather have tons of str 6 shots in case of enemy mech spam.
See the triple DP list is mean!, I have now lost one game with them in over 25 games, even played a 3 way game on Tuesday, marines and orks and LoC, 3 heralds in a 20 man horror squad (evil) and 2 DPs and a soul grinder, I pretty much took on both armies and didnt lose anything, one DP had two CCW's and warp speed, not much stood up to his charge!. Still have been tempted to buy more daemons but tbh I cant fault my list so have been waiting off, only thing I would like in my list would be fast units in a big squad (seekers or hounds) but whether this would benefit me or not i am not sure!
Have you went against a DE venomspam with the triple DP list. I would think it would be an auto lose matchup. And what about IG blob/vendetta spam or nids? I think the tripple DP is super good against MEQ armies, but not against hordes maybe?
masquerade81 wrote: Have you went against a DE venomspam with the triple DP list. I would think it would be an auto lose matchup. And what about IG blob/vendetta spam or nids? I think the tripple DP is super good against MEQ armies, but not against hordes maybe?
Venom spam isnt that threatening really as most of the time weapons shooting at daemon prince will already wound them on a 4+ or better. You can still make a crap ton of saves with a 3+ 5++ 4+++ model. If you boost the invuls then it gets even crazier. Any of your psychic shooting attacks brings down their vehicles.
I was thinking of maybe tweaking my list by droping the ADL and removing the other tzeentch herald to get two psychic powers for myh daemon princes each. That would boost their costs to 330pts a piece... Insane! But in my last game i did not feel the horrors doing that much really. Maybe just stick with one big blob with a herald tossing the portaglyph or taking the grimoire and replacing the other unit with plaguebearers who will sit and camp an objective. Hmmm...
masquerade81 wrote: Have you went against a DE venomspam with the triple DP list. I would think it would be an auto lose matchup. And what about IG blob/vendetta spam or nids? I think the tripple DP is super good against MEQ armies, but not against hordes maybe?
I have and it was my first time against that list, lots of splinter cannons as well!, I lost but next time I doubt I will, it took the full army shooting at one DP to kill it (thanks to fateys re roll he stayed in the air longer that he should have!). I also forgot a few things which hurt me as I didnt have my spreadsheet with me to write all the rewards/psyhic powers down. bolt of change was very nice against them from fateweaver so was the str6 from the herald/horror squad. He was running a beast pack with the baron and reavers as well.
Slow&Purposeful hurts most when games end early because you can't run, and also because the I8 princes can't sweeping advance. You have to rely on a decent massacre move to get back to cover.
QFT! This is one of the main reasons I cant bring myself to take the nurgle princes. It is silly that an I8 models cant sweep a squad. My tzeentch prince has saved my baken several times with a timely auto-sweep of a unit.
Glad you had success with the drones. Being T5 makes them really hard to instant kill. If you can boost their saves then I can see them really giving an army a run for its money.
Sorry to here about the blight drone. The important part is you had fun though. Glad to hear. I think that is the main goal with daemons. They are random and fun.
In relation to S&P on the Nurgle DP, it depends on who you are playing I suppose - all my games so far have been against Dark Angels, so although sweeping helps keep opponents in combat, you don't have the chance to sweep a squad due to ATSKNF.
Only used Nurgle DP once so far (first few games were using BT/Khorne DP combo) but he was amazing. He was expensive (Wings, Armour, 2 Greater Rewards and Level 3 Psyker, ouch) but swept through my opponent due to having Iron Arm, Enfeeble (both Biomancy) and Miasma of Pestilence (Nurgle lore). He took out a full Ravenwing biker squad, full Deathwing Knights squad and a Scout squad for the loss of one W, the Nurgle power being a huge help to stop any damage (it is also a blessing so can't be resisted). Considering it was the Scouring, he scored me one VP for destroying the bikes and denyied my opponent the 4 VP objective, thus winning me the game.
So very long winded way of saying that considering how good the Nurgle powers are, the potential impact of taking a Balesword if facing multiple wound enemies, and the benefit of shrouding if you need to avoid shooting for a turn, I think the Nurgle DP is a perfectly viable option, particularly against non-sweepable Space Marine/Fearless armies.
The hounds are there basically to be a distraction to draw more fire off the princes. They will be hard to kill off and will be on the enemy on turn 1 if the enemy get the first turn and do not deploy as far as possible from them. They are there basically to force the enemy into a corner. 40 T4 wounds with a 5++ save (3++ if i run with grimoire), that's a lot to deal with. Oh and took some Mlvls for the princes so that have a chance for some biomancy silliness.
masquerade81 wrote: Decided that i will drop one prince from my Monster mash list and replace him with some fast attack in the form of Khorne Flesh Hounds!
HQ:
Fateweaver 300
Karanak 120
Herald of Tzeentch
Mlvl 2
portaglyph/grimoire (depending on the mission)
conjuration
Troops:
15 horrors
10 plaguebearers
Fast attack:
20 Flesh hounds 320
Heavy support:
DP of Tzeentch
flight, armor, Mlvl 2, 1 lesser, 2 greater 330
The hounds are there basically to be a distraction to draw more fire off the princes. They will be hard to kill off and will be on the enemy on turn 1 if the enemy get the first turn and do not deploy as far as possible from them. They are there basically to force the enemy into a corner. 40 T4 wounds with a 5++ save (3++ if i run with grimoire), that's a lot to deal with. Oh and took some Mlvls for the princes so that have a chance for some biomancy silliness.
I am running the following list for a 1750 tournament in the morning.
1750pt build
Fateweaver 300pts
Herald of Tzeentch 150pts
Exalted Locus of Conjuration; Exalted rewards; mastery level 3 (grimiore of true names)
Herald of Tzeentch 125pts
Exalted rewards; mastery level 3 (portalglyph)
Herald of Slannesh (Exalted Reward; Great loci of Beguilment; ML 2) 155pts
Herald of Nurgle (greater locus of Fecundity, greater reward, ML2, Palaquin of Nurgle)180pts
Heavy:
1 daemon prince (tzeentch, Warp Forged Armor, Greater Reward x 2, daemonic Flight, Mastery Level 3) 345pts
Total: 1750pts
I actually like to roll telepathy for my daemon prince and my slannesh herald. I might throw one or two dice at biomancy and then shoot for terrify, invisibility, hallucination etc... It is obviously match-up dependent. Terrify is amazing against fearless armies. I would recommend looking into them. Had tau broadsides go derp and I charged them with fateweaver. They couldnt overwatch or hit back for two turns and he was just grinding them away as I gave him warp speed.
Dp of nurgle, wings, armor, greater x 2
Nurgle soul grinder
Nurgle soul grinder
Csmdp of nurgle, wings armor, black mace
Cultists x 11
Helldrake
Its troops light for sure. Trying it out tomorrow night.
It is more of a fluffy build but I think it could hold up alright. Let us know how the MSU beast of nurgle work for you. I am guessing your trying to maximize IWND rolls by seperating them up? Beware that these guys could make easy kill points if your opponent focus fires on them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have also toyed with taking this tomorrow just for the lawls. How many builds do you have that can handle 5 FMC?
Fateweaver 300pts
Bloodthirster GRx2 290pts
15 Blood Letters 150pts
15 Pink Horrors 135pts
Tzeentch Prince wings and armor; GRx2 MLx3 345pts
Khorne Prince wings and armor; ERx1 GRx1 270pts
Khorne Prince wings and armor; GRx2 260pts
Ive used them before and they work really well in soaking up some fire but their real purpose is to absorb overwatch so the dps roll in unscathed...andif you are shooting at my 50 point model then my 300 point dps thank you
i was also thinking of a tactic that i would multicharge with the hounds, then throw two DPs into the same big combat and start moving down the enemy. Would be hillarious to watch 3+ enemy units get tied down into a huge melee and karanak would soak up challenges, so that the princess could hack away at easy kills.
The problem with this tactic is that if i lose combat some how, then all three of my units start testing for instability. Also i lose half my attacks with the hounds on the charge.
I need a list for a tournament. I know the players attending so i know the meta is CC Heavy lists with deathstars and only one flyer per list. all codexes will attend except sisters of battle. So my thought on an allround list
Hq Keeper of seekrets
Psyker lvl 2 - telepathy
Greater rewards - lash
Exalted rewards - roll
Herald of slaanesh
Lesser rewards - eatherblade
Greater locus of swiftness
Herald of slaanesh
Lesser rewards - eatherblade
Greater locus of swiftness
Herald of khorne
Lesser reward - axe of khorne
Greater locus
Game 1 vs Orcs: Vanguard Strike, Purge the Alien: WIN Fateweaver's powers: Life Leach, Prescience, Flame Breath, Hallucination
DP's Powers and Rewards: Iron Arm, Psychic Shriek, FF of Tzeentch, Rewards: 4+ FNP, +3 armor save (traded for Tzeentch Weapon), lesser was garbage.
Opponent's army:
Warboss (Cybork body, on foot)
2x 20 Slugga Boyz with a Powerklaw Nob on foot
12 Burnas in a Battlewagon (Warboss rode in this)
6 Bikers (not Nobs)
10 Lootas
1 Dakkajet
I got Iron Arm and FNP on my DP but never really needed it. I setup the ADL pretty far back in my zone and let him come to me. I mostly used Fateweaver to drop Hallucination on various units and tried to blow up the Battlewagon before it got to my ADL and unloaded with 12 flamer templates (he made and killed almost all my Horrors and all my Bloodletters). The DP just flew around and blasted units with Shriek and FF of Tzeentch before landing to mop up in assault.. I opted for the Portalglyph despite this being a kill point game, and it didn't bite me in the ass.
Game 2 vs Eldar: Hammer and Anvil, Emperor's Will: WIN Fateweaver's powers: Smite, Flame Breath, Prescience, Psychic Shriek
DP's powers: Life Leach, Hallucinate, FF of Tzeentch. Rewards: Reroll invulnerable saves, didn't write these down.
This was just a bad match up for my opponent. He had plenty of tools to deal with vehicles, with Bright Lances on the Nightwings and the D-Cannons on the Warp Hunters. No vehicles in my army and invulnerable saves everywhere muted their effectiveness. An early game roll on the Warp Storm (Dark Prince thirsts, I think) Imobilized one Warp Hunter in poor position and shook the other one. He also just tried too hard to kill Fateweaver with his Grimoire boosted 2++ rerollable save. I wound up losing 2 Bloodletters and maybe three Horrors the entire game.
Game 3 vs Sisters of Battle: LOSS Fateweaver's Powers: Life Leach, Flame Breath, Prescience, Hallucination
DP Powers: Smite, Life Leach, FF of Tzeentch. Rewards: +1 Wound and It Will Not Die, Str 8 Ap:1 Lance attack I forget the name. Lesser Weapon of Tzeentch
Opponent's Army:
Celestine
10 Seraphim 2 with Two Hand Flamers, the rest with Two Bolt Pistols
2x 10 Battle Sisters in Rhinos
2 Exorcists
Coteaz (Perfect Timing, Prescience)
Inquistorial Henchman Squad (2 Jokaero, 2 Servitors with Plasma Cannons)
ADL with Lascannon
I got my butt soundly kicked in this game. Most of it was my opponent being very good, the rest was a mixture of poor deployment on my part, horrible luck and bad decisions made during the game. I deployed my ADL too far forward, thinking to stay behind it until the last turn or so and hop out and grab the relic. He was able to get his Seraphim squad right up into my troops in turn 2 and Flamers wiped them out. He went first, and the reach of his Exorcist tanks and lack of usable cover on the board forced me into Reserving the DP and Placing Fateweaver in a corner, out of range of first turn fire.
By the end of turn 2, all I had on the board was Fateweaver with two wounds left. I was able to stay aloft using his rerolls, and got wounds back with Life Leach throughout the game. The DP didn't come in until turn 3, despite using Fateweaver's reroll on my reserve roll. I was hoping for a draw, but couldn't pull it off. The game ended with the DP dead, and Fateweaver the only model of mine on the table.
Afterthoughts:
I like the way the army played, at the next monthly tournament (1500 points) I'll probably just add another DP. I'll make room by dropping one of the Heralds and moving the Exalted Reward onto the new DP. That way I can opt for the Exalted weapon if I get a kill point mission.
Right, looks like I have a few games coming up at 1500pts, I am really struggling to get my tzeentch list down to 1500 so thinking of doing Khorne (again I struggle to get my tzeentch list up to 1850, its normally done by just adding in another horror squad
BloodThrister 2 greater 1 lesser
Herald of Khorne on juggernauth with exalted reward (not sure which loci to give him?)
Herald of tzeentch exalted reward
10 bloodletters (or plague bearers seeing as I havent gone mono?)
10 Horrrors
10 Fleshounds
Daemon prince mark of khorne wings armour 2 greater 1 lesser
Daemon prince mark of khorne wings armour 2 greater 1 lesser
.
.
here is the whole list. Please give feedback if i should change something in the list.
I need to put them to the test.
. Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc... I am not sure what the blight drone does. It really comes down to what you like more a blight drone or a daemon prince. One of them would have to become cheaper so you can bring in more troops. As stated the portalglyph might help with this but should not be overtly relied upon.
