I find it strange that in a hobby that is considered quite expensive that i see so many unpainted armies. For example i played a guy yesterday at my club who didn't have 1 painted model yet about 4000 points of marines. Now im a casual gamer and i understand that sometimes you cant have everything painted but i love the visual appeal of playing a fully painted army on a board with excellent terrain and i think a large amount of unpainted models detracts from this. What do you guys think, do you care about unpainted armies and is it common in your area? Is it just the appeal of buying that causes it?
I don't mind if someone has a new unpainted army or new models not yet painted in his army, as long as he's clearly painting
When someone just doesn't care and never paints anything for a long time, I simply don't play with him, no pleasure there.
You might as well play boardgames / wargames (that often have better rules / balance) if you're not doing the hobby part of 40K
It does not really matter to me. I ultimately want a good game against a friendly opponent. I don't mind painting, but I am a little busy and would feel offended if someone was angry I was not painting or painting quickly enough for their standard. In my case, I travel for a living and, when I am not, put in 50 hours a week at my job. Sometimes, paint time just does not happen. :-(
Honestly, I'm okay if they don't have their army painted as long as it is assembled and ready to play. It's much more preferable to playing against a half-built army, like someone who used to play at an LGS a few years ago. His vehicles had only the shells built, like his Land Raider with no doors, top or weapons or his Marines without arms. When we asked why he showed up to play with his army in such a ... ridiculous state, he told us he wanted to prime them before finishing the assembly process. After six months, we just got tired of playing his unprimed door-less vehicles and arm-less Marines.
I have two kids and a 7-5 job, so that doesn't happen much.
Add that to nerve damage in the hands, and the fact that i far prefer to build models than to paint them...
I have a paintbox at work, and get 40 mins or so of painting in a day on my lunch, but it can take me a couple of hours solid painting time per model to get one half-decent.
Probably shouldn't have got into Orks then, but hey...
I'll get them all painted eventually. At least they are all fully assembled
Like other's have said, what grinds my gears are people who get into a huff about unpainted models.
Sometimes people like wargaming for wargaming. There is a certain draw to it, its like a real time strategy game on the table top. And GW is undeniably the most popular varient, and offers one of the largest scales.
Its also true that a lot of times people just don't have the time or energy to paint, but that doesn't mean that they don't like to play. I am always amazed at how quick people on the Net seem to be willing to deny these individuals the fun of the hobby just because they believe everybody should slap some paint on, with minimal consideration to outside factors like the aforementioned children or long hours on the job, or just not enjoying painting. Its absurd. Especially when they have the gall to qualify it and say things like "but its ok for them to play with unpainted models only if they made adequate assurances to me that they will be painted soon" GAH!
I get that painted models look better, and there are times when they are required. Like many tournaments or narrative campaigns. and I am all for encouraging people to paint models. But denying people the fun of playing a casual pick up game when they finally manage to get some free time from their life, simply because they haven't devoted all their prior free time to painting just seems mean spirited.
EDIT: I also think the worst people are the ones who actually suggest playing a different game if someone doesn't have time to paint. Magic (for instance) is NOTHING like 40K. People may like one and not the other. Telling somebody to "screw off" and play a different game just because they don't view the hobby the same way is just horrible.
I think painting is part of the game..if you don't want to paint would it be acceptable to use print outs of the models that have the gear very visible? Of course not. If you don't have the time and/or money you really should find another hobby.
There are great hobby games out there (example: MAGIC) that require just the purchase of the product to play.
IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE: You can always print out foldouts of the WH40K army. This would let you play the game with no money problems or painting problems. Would that be acceptable to other gamers....I am guessing not. Now please reply in a new comment so everyone can see it instead of hiding in your edits.
People have different reasons for playing 40k. It certainly isn't for a tight rule set.
The models at least need to be assembled. My friends have been slowly painting model by model, unit by unit, so we are fielding fewer units. In my last game, everything of mine was painted except for a storm bolter on a rhino.
I was ashamed!
However, if you are getting satisfaction from having a fully painted army, good for you!
I prefer playing pretty armies, but I will play anyone, even the armless marines. I especially don't mind if someone has a few new units they have not painted yet, but wanted to try out while they paint them, I mean, I do that too.
Of course I am. I put forth a valid point that made you look foolish. Running away is a common tactic to those who have no good answer.
I just asked that if you can't define fun...and someone doesn't have the time/money to play warhammer, but they LOVE it...would you play them if they used a printed out army?
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
I have a friend who is in the same situation. He sets aside 15 minutes each morning to paint. I'm not singling you out, Formosa. Just pointing out one option. He also doesn't have kids, so that helps his situation greatly.
I don't have a problem playing against people with unpainted armies, nor do I feel that they are taking away from the experience. Some people do, and that's their choice I suppose.
I just ask for WYSIWYG as much as possible.
I'm not sure what that crap about card-board cut outs is all about, though. Seems like an odd way to play. I honestly don't think anyone plays that way, so it seems like an odd argument to make.
Of course I am. I put forth a valid point that made you look foolish. Running away is a common tactic to those who have no good answer.
I just asked that if you can't define fun...and someone doesn't have the time/money to play warhammer, but they LOVE it...would you play them if they used a printed out army?
And now personal attacks. Glad I don't have to read this crap anymore. Thanks for the lesson in trolling.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
I have a friend who is in the same situation. He sets aside 15 minutes each morning to paint. I'm not singling you out, Formosa. Just pointing out one option. He also doesn't have kids, so that helps his situation greatly.
I don't have a problem playing against people with unpainted armies, nor do I feel that they are taking away from the experience. Some people do, and that's their choice I suppose.
I just ask for WYSIWYG as much as possible.
I'm not sure what that crap about card-board cut outs is all about, though. Seems like an odd way to play. I honestly don't think anyone plays that way, so it seems like an odd argument to make.
Of course I am. I put forth a valid point that made you look foolish. Running away is a common tactic to those who have no good answer.
I just asked that if you can't define fun...and someone doesn't have the time/money to play warhammer, but they LOVE it...would you play them if they used a printed out army?
And now personal attacks. Glad I don't have to read this crap anymore. Thanks for the lesson in trolling.
My question for you was would you block the fun of someone who doesn't have the time/money to play WH..but they love it, so they use cut outs for their army..you said no. Meaning there is a line you draw somewhere on defining fun for other people...I just want to know where it is.
And good for your friend..he is still painting..not giving up..putting effort. We are talking about those that refuse to paint and just play with assembled models. Don't change the subject please.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
I have a friend who is in the same situation. He sets aside 15 minutes each morning to paint. I'm not singling you out, Formosa. Just pointing out one option. He also doesn't have kids, so that helps his situation greatly.
I don't have a problem playing against people with unpainted armies, nor do I feel that they are taking away from the experience. Some people do, and that's their choice I suppose.
I just ask for WYSIWYG as much as possible.
I'm not sure what that crap about card-board cut outs is all about, though. Seems like an odd way to play. I honestly don't think anyone plays that way, so it seems like an odd argument to make.
You mean the personal attack when he called me a troll...yes..he did go for the personal attack. I wasn't going to point it out.
Of course I am. I put forth a valid point that made you look foolish. Running away is a common tactic to those who have no good answer.
I just asked that if you can't define fun...and someone doesn't have the time/money to play warhammer, but they LOVE it...would you play them if they used a printed out army?
And now personal attacks. Glad I don't have to read this crap anymore. Thanks for the lesson in trolling.
I paint my armies, and I really prefer it when my opponents army is painted too, but I'm not going to refuse a game just because it's not painted.
I have a much bigger problem with proxies. Having a few stand-ins now and again doesn't bother me. Infantry bases with nothing on them is a declined game from me. I've literally come across a person who wanted to play a full 2000 point game with nothing but different sized bases.
BarBoBot wrote: I paint my armies, and I really prefer it when my opponents army is painted too, but I'm not going to refuse a game just because it's not painted.
I have a much bigger problem with proxies. Having a few stand-ins now and again doesn't bother me. Infantry bases with nothing on them is a declined game from me. I've literally come across a person who wanted to play a full 2000 point game with nothing but different sized bases.
That is a bigger degree. Again, people that want to test their armies out or new models that don't have them painted or proxied is OK.
And I wouldn't refuse to play an unpainted army either...for the 6 or 7th time. After that, I know they have no intention of painting. Unless I see progress.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Why don't you just use printed out cut outs then? They would be in color..follow the WYSIWYG rule...and you could still play the game.
Why does it bother you so much? Your fun is not his fun, and vice-verse.
There's also a huge leap from playing unpainted to using card board cut outs. And unpainted has nothing to do with WYSIWYG.
I just assumed he felt like Saying something in an "edgy" way. Fact of the matter is anyone who cares enough to make absolutes like that should really try and think about how rediculous they are and focus on makig themselves a tolerant individual. No one is making you play these "unpainted armies. I personally prefer painted armies but who cares really? Hanging out and having fun for a couple of hours with friends trumps "cooler" looking armies every time.
I perfer playing painted armies, but I am just happy to get a good game.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Painting does not take that much time or money. A simple 3 color paint scheme can be done extremely quickly. Follow these steps.
1) Get a colored primer. Red if your blood angels, etc...
2) Get a ink. Ink all your primered models. A black ink is pretty good for most marines.
3) Touch up the guns and/or shoulderpads with a silver, gold.
Painting an army like that won't take you any more time than it took to assemble your models. You could do it after the kids go to sleep.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Why don't you just use printed out cut outs then? They would be in color..follow the WYSIWYG rule...and you could still play the game.
Why does it bother you so much? Your fun is not his fun, and vice-verse.
There's also a huge leap from playing unpainted to using card board cut outs. And unpainted has nothing to do with WYSIWYG.
I just assumed he felt like Saying something in an "edgy" way. Fact of the matter is anyone who cares enough to make absolutes like that should really try and think about how rediculous they are and focus on makig themselves a tolerant individual. No one is making you play these "unpainted armies. I personally prefer painted armies but who cares really? Hanging out and having fun for a couple of hours with friends trumps "cooler" looking armies every time.
Same question to you then. Would you play a printed cut out army?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
labmouse42 wrote: I perfer playing painted armies, but I am just happy to get a good game.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Painting does not take that much time or money. A simple 3 color paint scheme can be done extremely quickly. Follow these steps.
1) Get a colored primer. Red if your blood angels, etc...
2) Get a ink. Ink all your primered models. A black ink is pretty good for most marines.
3) Touch up the guns and/or shoulderpads with a silver, gold.
Painting an army like that won't take you any more time than it took to assemble your models. You could do it after the kids go to sleep.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Why don't you just use printed out cut outs then? They would be in color..follow the WYSIWYG rule...and you could still play the game.
Why does it bother you so much? Your fun is not his fun, and vice-verse.
There's also a huge leap from playing unpainted to using card board cut outs. And unpainted has nothing to do with WYSIWYG.
I just assumed he felt like Saying something in an "edgy" way. Fact of the matter is anyone who cares enough to make absolutes like that should really try and think about how rediculous they are and focus on makig themselves a tolerant individual. No one is making you play these "unpainted armies. I personally prefer painted armies but who cares really? Hanging out and having fun for a couple of hours with friends trumps "cooler" looking armies every time.
Same question to you then. Would you play a printed cut out army?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
labmouse42 wrote: I perfer playing painted armies, but I am just happy to get a good game.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Painting does not take that much time or money. A simple 3 color paint scheme can be done extremely quickly. Follow these steps.
1) Get a colored primer. Red if your blood angels, etc...
2) Get a ink. Ink all your primered models. A black ink is pretty good for most marines.
3) Touch up the guns and/or shoulderpads with a silver, gold.
Painting an army like that won't take you any more time than it took to assemble your models. You could do it after the kids go to sleep.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Why don't you just use printed out cut outs then? They would be in color..follow the WYSIWYG rule...and you could still play the game.
Why does it bother you so much? Your fun is not his fun, and vice-verse.
There's also a huge leap from playing unpainted to using card board cut outs. And unpainted has nothing to do with WYSIWYG.
I just assumed he felt like Saying something in an "edgy" way. Fact of the matter is anyone who cares enough to make absolutes like that should really try and think about how rediculous they are and focus on makig themselves a tolerant individual. No one is making you play these "unpainted armies. I personally prefer painted armies but who cares really? Hanging out and having fun for a couple of hours with friends trumps "cooler" looking armies every time.
Same question to you then. Would you play a printed cut out army?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
labmouse42 wrote: I perfer playing painted armies, but I am just happy to get a good game.
Formosa wrote: I dont have the time to paint my army fully, work and life and.all that.
Painting does not take that much time or money. A simple 3 color paint scheme can be done extremely quickly. Follow these steps.
1) Get a colored primer. Red if your blood angels, etc...
2) Get a ink. Ink all your primered models. A black ink is pretty good for most marines.
3) Touch up the guns and/or shoulderpads with a silver, gold.
Painting an army like that won't take you any more time than it took to assemble your models. You could do it after the kids go to sleep.
You are correct sir.
Yes I would, why wouldn't you?
Nope. I feel allowing that behavior ruins the hobby. As it does not bring new players into the game, because it looks bad...or it does bring new players into the game that will do the same and not pay for anything. So your behavior of allowing this kind of action will actually end the hobby. Thank you for being "honest."
Remember, as the above post shows, its takes almost 30 minutes to paint 10 to 20 models. Maybe more.
And it takes 5 minutes to print out full color cut outs and mount them into bases? Which is quicker and more convenient?
Do you make all your friends wear the same clothes as you? Because it sounds like you want everything to be a clone of how you experience life and fun in general.
Personally i would prefer it if everyones army was fully painted - it adds a lot to the game. I dont like using models/units that aren't fully painted.
But you have to be realistic.
Some people just dont have the time to field a fully painted army - i dont anymore - havn't picked up a brush in months.
There is a guy i regularly play against that has basically admitted to having a "stealth armour" IG army - most of his tanks are just primed black. Mostly because i just doesn't have the time to do any painting between jobs and kids.
But this becomes more acceptabel when you see the amoutn of effort he puts into each of his guardsmen - each one has separate rank markings, is fully and uniquely based etc etc.
I'm a college student so I don't exactly have the money to buy the paints. I do, however, fully plan to paint my miniatures. I would be pretty bummed if someone denied me a game because my army wasn't painted.
I'd be steamed if someone used paper cut outs. I spent time and money collecting my army, why do you get to stamp them out in 5 minutes?
I have an idea to all those who "don't want to block the fun of others," lets play with all proxy armies...what would be the problem?
As for not having time to paint..I think you are confusing painting good with painting. To have a decent looking army..spray paint primary color...ink black...use one or two bold colors such as gold to paint over some areas such as shoulder trim..BAM! done. Not much time at all...and if can't afford 3 paints, 1 ink, and a can of spray paint..well, you might want to buy food instead of models.
if its a new unit or two they are just excited to try out before they get the time to paint them, that's fine. If they are new and just rushing to get stuff done and have their stuff mostly assembled, and still working on putting it together and want to try a game sure.
If for the past 3 months, you have been coming in with a not even primed entire army, then I might get a little fed up with that. I might not entirely deny you games, but I will try and get games with people at least attempting to paint their armies first.
There are always exceptions. I do prefer that my opponent has a (mostly) painted army. But people are adding stuff to their army all the time, so a primed or WIP model/unit here and there aren't uncommon or an issue.
pwntallica wrote: if its a new unit or two they are just excited to try out before they get the time to paint them, that's fine. If they are new and just rushing to get stuff done and have their stuff mostly assembled, and still working on putting it together and want to try a game sure.
If for the past 3 months, you have been coming in with a not even primed entire army, then I might get a little fed up with that. I might not entirely deny you games, but I will try and get games with people at least attempting to paint their armies first.
There are always exceptions. I do prefer that my opponent has a (mostly) painted army. But people are adding stuff to their army all the time, so a primed or WIP model/unit here and there aren't uncommon or an issue.
I for one don't care one way or the other. I hardly ever get time to paint but when I do (monthly or so) I bust out about 7-8 straight hours. My main issue is the fact my army was started using Hawk Turquoise and GW has since discontinued the color (or I just cant ever find it). So im faced with a conundrum: I have about 2/3 of my army painted, but I don't have many of my tactical marines painted (started big and moved down, never painted before 40k so wanted to practice). As far as proxies go I'll be okay with a few units, but when someone breaks out a nid army (100% mind you) and calls them guardsmen I have an issue. As far as the cutouts go, that is just not anything I've ever heard of, and seems like a horrible idea.
J0kerrMT wrote: I have an idea to all those who "don't want to block the fun of others," lets play with all proxy armies...what would be the problem?
Hyperbole and sarcasm... Well played, you win.
OT I work long and asocial hours and generally I'm just glad when my free time coincides with my mates. I don't get so many opportunities to play games that I can turn them down just because Bob didn't find time to paint anything this week. My army is around 60% painted, and I generally choose to spend my time playing it rather than painting it. This does not mean that I don't intend to complete the painting. This does not mean that the number of finished models in my army is not increasing (it is, but slowly). This does not mean that I don't field fully painted armies.
I'll happily play unpainted armies of miniatures as I accept that people have differing viewpoints and priorities on the subject.
J0kerrMT wrote: I have an idea to all those who "don't want to block the fun of others," lets play with all proxy armies...what would be the problem?
As for not having time to paint..I think you are confusing painting good with painting. To have a decent looking army..spray paint primary color...ink black...use one or two bold colors such as gold to paint over some areas such as shoulder trim..BAM! done. Not much time at all...and if can't afford 3 paints, 1 ink, and a can of spray paint..well, you might want to buy food instead of models.
I can't believe no one has pointed out the obvious flaw in your cardboard cutouts argument. I wouldn't play with someone who did this either, but not because the cutouts detract from the game visually. You would run into all sorts of rules problems with the models not being correct for line of sight, or the models not being on bases. The game would play differently.
If he put all of his cutouts on the correct bases, and made sure they were the right height ect, sure I'd play against that. He'd need to have the weapons printed on the models too, and each model should be easily recognizable so that there isn't any ambiguity. Its already really annoying when people do this with proxied models, if there is no physical marking that sets the models apart, bad players will be tempted to lie and say important models are in different squads or places, and you will have no way to call them out on it.
But assuming their proxies are as meticulously accurate with regards to the rules as real models, I'd have no problem. In practice I think this isn't realistically possible, so your argument is pointless.
It bugs me but in my area most players have 2 or 3 small armies each and none of them are painted. It's like the flavor of the week sometimes. Players trade entire armies w/ their buddies play it for 2-3 weeks get bored and move on. Mostly the highschooler younger type players. That crap bugs me. Stick to an army, learn it's ins and outs and try to win. I'm partial w/ the painting thing, mine is fully painted and being married and having children it is hard to find a couple hours a week to hobby. And it you have multiple hobbies it's even worse. It's a good feeling when you have guys come over to you as you set up admiring your army and saying good things. However, I really lose my mind when I see proxies. Yeah this black 60mm+ base is a stromraven kind of crap.
I can usually get over an army that is unpainted, as long as its fully built and shows the proper gear being used!
What I hate are proxys.... just can stand em!
My units are always fully painted before I use them in a game. Seeing black or plastic ruins the game for me, but I'll never say no to someone for that reason.
Probably because I'm far too polite, rather than because I don't have an objection to it.
Griddlelol wrote: My units are always fully painted before I use them in a game. Seeing black or plastic ruins the game for me, but I'll never say no to someone for that reason.
Probably because I'm far too polite, rather than because I don't have an objection to it.
I'm now much more like this. I will try to avoid putting anything on the table that is not painted.
I mean I prefer armies painted to a three-color standard, but as long as the person's stuff is close to WYSIWYG and it's clear they're making an attempt at painting, however slow, I'm happy. I mean I'm a cadet at the Air Force Academy, I totally get that not everyone has time to be a master painter. I just can't get as into it when I play an incomplete/not-even-based army. I'll generally do it, but only if they seem like a good type and there's no one else to play.
The only time it ever bugs me is we have a local guy who complainds he doesn't have time to paint, but constantly buys new armies, and then sells them a few weeks later. He's a decent painter when he actually does it, and he says he enjoys it, but he's constantly distracting himself
He's fun to play with or against, but the lack of focus or completion does bug me a little. I don't demand fully painted armies, but I feel that should be an end goal. This is an expensive hobby, so why not enjoy the hobby side of it?
hotsauceman1 wrote: I hate unpainted armies with a passion. They show no love for the pretty miniatures.
Comments like this really bother me, but I understand you have no real ill will and I'm not holding it against you.
So I'll just get to a little story about a dear friend of mine who has been in the hobby for over a decade and painted a majority of his probably 40K points worth of IG. He loved painting too and had a nice little set up where he would paint said models. One of the nicest guys on the planet, if kindness was a crime he'd get the fast lane to the chair. He's the one that actually got me into the game. Long story short, nice guy who loves the game and has a lot of dedication to paint over 10K worth of platoons.
However my friend has several hinderances to his painting. He's old fashioned and likes dedicating time to make his models look nice, he is married and so has less personal time than really allowed, he's in the military and has long work hours, and of course his dominant hand was severely injured in the line of work making extended use painful.
For any one to tell me that man hasn't dedicated enough time and attention to the game, that he doesn't appreciate the hobby, or that you wouldn't enjoy playing him based on aesthetics of his toy soldiers I'd say to you that you have it the other way around. You are not worth his time.
Is this a single example? Absolutely. Is it always the case with an unpainted army? How should I know or more importantly why should I care? I prefer to judge someone based on the content of their character rather than the color of their army men. If someone is taking time out of their day to play a game with me, that's all I need to know and that's all I will care about it.
That being said, yes I do enjoy seeing painted armies. I love a nicely detailed and themed army, because I try to paint mine and do some conversions occasionally. Never would I place any restrictions or demands on another player. If you want to play against a fully painted army, why not just write his list up for him too since you're so interested in what your opponent is bringing.
It doesn't grind my gears, but I do love painted miniatures. Sure it takes time to paint them all, and it would be impossible for most folks to only field painted forces, but wouldn't it be swell? I think a great deal of GW's product is moved by the skill of the 'Eavy Metal team alone - boxes featuring gray plastic units on the front wouldn't have near the appeal - and that goes for on the tabletop as well. Of course I'll play an unpainted force! I think I'd always prefer players who are into painting as well. I don't think it's wrong to feel this way, it's part of what draws me into the hobby!
I don't place painting requirements on anyone. I prefer to have my stuff painted but its not for me to say wether yours should be or not. If somebody wants to play then I'm in.
I'm lucky enough that warhammer world is my local store, and as you probably know they have countless gourgeous tables in a stunning venue. About 4 years ago before i took hobby hiatus they didn't allow you to play with models that weren't at least undercoated. That rule has now gone out the window for whatever reason and it is such a shame when you see HUGE armies of completly unpainted miniatures on some of the best tables you will see.
As for me - I REALLY want my Tau painted...but I also want to play. The painting theme I am doing is going to take a LONG time to do (Raver Tau - Blacklight paint in all the little lines on the models). I am also planning on buying the models in bulk when the new stuff comes out - I will atleast get them primed white...but the actual painting is going to take time - I may not like it...but it is how it is...
As for other people - the only things I don't allow my opponents to do, unless we are just playing a trial game like testing out listes or what not, is proxy a MODEL - weapon loadout is fine - but I have seen people say 'These marines are actually TH/SS Terminators and this leader guy is So-and-So'. It has nothing to do with WYSIWYG - but when you are playing a 1.5-2 hour game you will forget what people have and what a unit is - so having to constantly ask is going to drag the game out.
Also, at my FLGS, you can go in and sit and paint all day if you wanted. If I/someone was painting and wanted a game - I wouldn't care...everyone has limitations and such. At a tournament - it is all stated as per how things have to be - you don't have it - then gtfo....
I will play any body with models regardless of their paint status as I was one who for the longest time had no time to paint. I barely had time to put the models together. Now I have plenty of time to devote towards painting one model at a time. Heck I still haven't primed my LRC that I got over a year ago and I'm glad I haven't! As I recently converted from Black Templars to Dark Angels. The Black Templars were a spur of the moment thing and I liked the way they looked and I hadn't read any real rules about either army. After playing for about a year I made the change with the release of Dark Vengence thus the unpainted LRC was a LOT easier to convert.
As for playing against someone who has card board cut-outs I will have to decline that game. Encouraging that type of behavior will only lead to the down fall of the hobby. Why? Because the hobby depends on it's sales to keep it going and a majority of those sales are the sales of the armies. If I know that someone doesn't have an army and wants to play I will offer them up one of my armies to play as I have several that are good for different points levels and paint coverage.
I love painting, i love helping my buddys paint , but most importantly i like playing. Just have fun with your buds. I know everyone at my club has proxied or played with un painted and un assembled models before. Who cares? As long as fun is had and no friendships are destroyed then hell ill play against a bunch of grey headless orks or whatever. Oh and beer really helps.
I feel bad sometimes since I’m the guy at my FLGS that has the paint free army. I enjoy the play style of 40k, the mechanics of the gameplay, the background fluff, and the many ways that people can bring a single army to the table. The one thing that never really rang my bell was painting. I have no talent for it and seeing all my other members’ models at the store I would feel more ashamed of putting some ugly painted model on the table then just an unpainted one. To make up for it I always make sure I have WYSIWYG.
I keep telling myself to get some time to learn how to properly paint but I’ve always been more of a learner by hands on teaching than from watching the thousands of impressive tutorial videos out there to show you how to paint. If I don’t have someone to ask questions or get instant feedback from to ensure I am doing things properly I don’t want to risk waiting the time and energy on something that might be so awful that I don’t want others to see. Now the my IG army continues to grow, over 300 infantry models not counting vehicles and Heavy Weapon Teams, just seems like too much of a daunting hill to climb with the limited free time I have and total lack of painting skill and lack of hands on knowledge.
Would be disappointed if someone turned down a game with me because of it but that is their right and I won’t hold it against them. Painted or not I’m still there to have a fun game and make friends while I’m at it which I hope what other people are therefor to.
Of course it's nicer to play against and with painted minis, I don't think anyone will disagree on that. But it's not a huge distraction for me. Generally it's me with the unpainted ones, though. I'm not a good painter, so I have to take it slowly to achieve a quality I'm at least content with. I will NOT sacrifice on what little quality I can achieve just to get it done faster.
For example in the last two weeks I've painted 5 Sword Brethren, a Terminator Chaplain and 3 almost finished Neophytes. It's taken me the majority of my free time to accomplish this. And they're not even 100% ready in the sense that there'd always be more that could be tweaked, improved, etc. But I'm trying to get them at least to a decent tabletop level first, hopefully adding some extra touches later.
In any case, with being so slow, anywhere between 1 (Neophyte with no highlighting on black) to 10 hours (the Terminator Chaplain which I love the model of and so took extra extra care, or my first and favorite Ork Nob, of all things) per model completion rate for infantry models, and with me having around 15 000 points of models, it's bound to take a long long time until I can field fully painted armies. As it is, I have maybe 2000 points of Templars in a reasonably painted state, and even of those points a fair amount is from HQs (and the next 4 models on my to-do list are HQs as well). I'm also prioritizing my Templars as far as painting, so if I want play C:SM or even C:CSM or Orks (both of which still require a lot of assembly, not just painting) or perhaps my small IG allied contingent, there's bound to be a lot of gray on the table for a long time yet.
yes, unpainted armies grind my gears, but not for the reason you'd think...
I enjoy painting, but medical issues and time constraints have destroyed my will to keep painting. So my armies are 30% painted, primed sometimes at best. I wanted my whole army to look awesome, instead, they all look ragtag and incomplete, making my painted minis look even worse.
Amaraxis wrote:As for me - I REALLY want my Tau painted...but I also want to play. The painting theme I am doing is going to take a LONG time to do (Raver Tau - Blacklight paint in all the little lines on the models). I am also planning on buying the models in bulk when the new stuff comes out - I will atleast get them primed white...but the actual painting is going to take time - I may not like it...but it is how it is...
As for other people - the only things I don't allow my opponents to do, unless we are just playing a trial game like testing out listes or what not, is proxy a MODEL - weapon loadout is fine - but I have seen people say 'These marines are actually TH/SS Terminators and this leader guy is So-and-So'. It has nothing to do with WYSIWYG - but when you are playing a 1.5-2 hour game you will forget what people have and what a unit is - so having to constantly ask is going to drag the game out.
Also, at my FLGS, you can go in and sit and paint all day if you wanted. If I/someone was painting and wanted a game - I wouldn't care...everyone has limitations and such. At a tournament - it is all stated as per how things have to be - you don't have it - then gtfo....
You know, you don't need to use a tiny brush to put the Blacklight in. You can just slap it on first then use pseudo-drybrush techniques to paint the armour plates without getting any of that paint in the cracks.
Unpainted - or even unprimed - miniatures don't grind my gears. You know what grinds my gears? Elitists and ass-hats, and a fair number have shown up in this thread.
If our versions of fun don't jive with each other, that's fine. But there is no reason to be a dick about it, or try to enforce your version of how-dedicated-you-should-be-to-the-hobby or how-you-should-paint-your-miniatures. It isn't fun for you to play someone with unpainted minis. No worries, but decline gracefully and don't be a douchebag about it. There are enough douchebags in RL, why bring that into a game?
Me as a painter take a ridiculously long time painting (probably due to my perfectionist style of painting), and I am in college with a major that slams me with 30+ hours of work per week at bad times. So I understand not having time. I like to see the progress made in painting your army, and I find people are generally happy when they can drop down a newly painted mini on the battlefield.
What I don't like is the guy who keeps buying new armies (like 11 total) and then in a way brags about never wanting to paint their minis. "This stormraven is used in 3 of my armies, along with these 2 LR that are in 5 of my armies." I just shake my head. No need for 11 armies if you are going to use certain units in each; just build up say half of them and then you will be able to paint them. This person is a poor sportsman ta boot (got caught cheating 1 time, and in general gets in bad moods and throws his stuff when losing, or gloat and laugh while you are getting demolished).
Don't get me wrong I like people getting creative with conversions, and I am cool with proxy armies (if they are cool and are used clearly/regularly s what they are). I feel for people who can't paint (time) and want to. But refusing to paint and holding back(threats) the group from doing things involving painting isn't cool (like scoring in tournaments and leagues, voting, etc.).
Sorry for the block of text. And roll with the game in a way that is funnest for you; whatever it is.
I play WHF the most and I dont bring an army to the table without the front ranks painted at least. In 40k it doesnt bother me that much but in WHF I see more or less just the back of my army so the painting is more a pleisure for my opponent and having a good painted army on the table and facing just undercoated ones would be a serious drawback for me. Though, there are many reason for people to not paint their armies but I dont like unpainted armies at all so I try to avoid them as good as possible. I mean, you can paint a rank&file model/marine in around 15minutes if you rush it and dont care too much on a good table top standard so at least the basic colours should be on the army after some time.
I would love to have my minis painted. My problem is that my painting "skills" are so god awful that instead of seeing my army, there is an eyesore on the table to the point where people are scratching their heads trying to figure out why I let a 2 year old paint my models. To be fair, my 2 year old nephew could probably do a better job...
That and the fact I work 6 days a week and when I get out of work/my 1 day off I just want to relax and do nothing...
I find painting incredibly relaxing. I put on a podcast and before I know it it's time for me to go to bed.
I'm not sure how painting could be stressful, but maybe try painting for the hell of it, rather than because you want to get it done as quickly as possible. I find my best paint jobs are on the miniatures I don't care about getting on the table immediately. I picked up warhammer after a long hiatus because I wanted to relax and take my mind off work. Just so happened that I love playing the game too.
Chalkybot wrote: I find it strange that in a hobby that is considered quite expensive that i see so many unpainted armies. For example i played a guy yesterday at my club who didn't have 1 painted model yet about 4000 points of marines. Now im a casual gamer and i understand that sometimes you cant have everything painted but i love the visual appeal of playing a fully painted army on a board with excellent terrain and i think a large amount of unpainted models detracts from this. What do you guys think, do you care about unpainted armies and is it common in your area? Is it just the appeal of buying that causes it?
Some people can't paint well so don't. Others have the choice of painting or playing, so choose playing when they have the time free. I've never let playing dictate my painting schedule, so all of my armies are in varying levels of completeness for paint. I have fully painted a half dozen large sized armies in my day: Undead, Imperial Guard, Daemonhunters/Grey Knights, Witchhunters/Sisters of Battle and a 3000+ point Tyranid horde, etc. All of them have also been sold off. My longest standing army, my khorne chaos marines, which I have been building and adding on to for the last 20+ years is never "complete". There are always newly converted figs being added to units that are otherwise fully painted, but I add lots of other items to the force too all the time. So it just keeps growing and unless I stick to my guns now of not really buying anything else for it, will never be fully painted. I say no more now, but I still keep eyeing up that Forge World greater Brass Scorpion model...it would look so cool painted up and sitting on the table next to my cauldron old armourcast cauldron of blood which I run as a counts as defiler.
As long as my opponents army is WYSIWYG I don't really worry about the paint much.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
J0kerrMT wrote: I have an idea to all those who "don't want to block the fun of others," lets play with all proxy armies...what would be the problem?
As for not having time to paint..I think you are confusing painting good with painting. To have a decent looking army..spray paint primary color...ink black...use one or two bold colors such as gold to paint over some areas such as shoulder trim..BAM! done. Not much time at all...and if can't afford 3 paints, 1 ink, and a can of spray paint..well, you might want to buy food instead of models.
Funny thing Joker is that you don't get to tell people how to paint their minis. I won't paint a mini in a chintzy way just to "call" it done, because it isn't done in my book. Luckily in this hobby I get to choose the standard to how I paint my minis based on my own abilities and it isn't dictated by others. Given that I have fully painted more armies than most people will ever have in their lifetime, if someone is going to complain that the minis I put on the table today for a newer army aren't fully painted, well then that is most definitely *their* problem...
To me they are two separate entities. 1 is a hobby of painting and modeling little toy soldiers. the other is a wargame played between two or more players.
our game is very niche to be excluding anyone interested in playing by telling them they can never play without painted models. Some people simply can't afford the services provided to have them painted, while not capable of painting a single bit.
Others have a plan. They bought all their models, assembled, play and paint them as they go. Some people paint slow, but are not going to lose their fun over the years it will most likely take them to get them all painted. I've seen spray can armies and some people will prefer to just take their slow time and play with unpainted figs.
Panzer1944 wrote: I keep telling myself to get some time to learn how to properly paint but I’ve always been more of a learner by hands on teaching than from watching the thousands of impressive tutorial videos out there to show you how to paint. If I don’t have someone to ask questions or get instant feedback from to ensure I am doing things properly I don’t want to risk waiting the time and energy on something that might be so awful that I don’t want others to see. Now the my IG army continues to grow, over 300 infantry models not counting vehicles and Heavy Weapon Teams, just seems like too much of a daunting hill to climb with the limited free time I have and total lack of painting skill and lack of hands on knowledge.
Would be disappointed if someone turned down a game with me because of it but that is their right and I won’t hold it against them. Painted or not I’m still there to have a fun game and make friends while I’m at it which I hope what other people are therefor to.
The only way to learn is by doing. If you only watch videos or read books you really don't know how to do something. You just know how *others* do something. Buy yourself some cheap models off of ebay of differing types and just start painting away. You won't be perfect at first, but once you start *trying* the techniques you've been watching, you'll start to really learn how to do them. At 28mm scale painting is actually rather forgiving. You can acheive results with washes and dry brushing that you couldn't rely on in larger scales without looking muddied. The most important thing about painting is a steady hand and you learn that by doing also. A lot of the techniques are really very simple in practice and just require that steady hand and some consistency to look decent most of the time. You can't base your painting on that of others or you'll never paint anything. Even worse, don't expect to paint like the 'eavy metal folks any time soon either. I've been painting minis off and on for 30+ years and have never had enough time to get myself to that standard because I have a life and don't get paid to paint minis all day long to the exclusion of everything else.
One last suggestion, don't look at the whole of your force to paint. Just paint it one squad at a time. Eventually you will completely finish that IG army and you will be amazed. If you instead try to figure out how you are going to paint 300+ minis every time you look at it you will continue to do what you are already doing and never start. I had that problem with my 'nid horde. Not sure why with that army, but none of the others I have mind you, but that one I just couldn't get myself into a starting point and kept looking at the mass of it and never starting. Finally picked a unit of warriors and got started. Eventually the entire 3000+ point horde was done. IG are tough because the models are mostly the same, so what I would do when painting IG is paint a command squad and a couple of infantry squads, and then I would switch over and paint a unit of sentinels or a tank to break it up.
skriker, that is some good advice. Hats off to you. I will try to put into practice myself (the going squad by squad part). I agree that just doing it works wonders. The models I paint now are vastly better then those that I painted when I first started (and I still have to do/work on my "advanced" techniques).
Joker... Cardboard cutouts?? Ok bud first off, pennies to pounds say I'm a damn sight better painter than you, secondly, to paint to the standard I set myself takes time, time is not something I have alot of between family, work and other hobbies.
How about we flip this around, I hate seeing terrible paintjobs, people who cannot.paint should not be allowed to play this game and must burn there models from shame, how dare they try and join MY hobby!!!
Like Skriker, I've been gaming for decades. In all of that time, across many different rulesets and periods, I have never put an unpainted miniature on the table. I have put some godawful ugly paintjobs on the table, especially when I was young, broke, and just learning how to paint.
For me, half the fun is looking at the models. That said, I would never comment on someone else's army, skill level, time commitment, or anything else that is frankly none of my business.
Now, if you want to play at my house you'll bring a painted army. Outside of my own space I am happy to get a game in with anyone regardless of the state of their army.
Panzer1944 wrote: I keep telling myself to get some time to learn how to properly paint but I’ve always been more of a learner by hands on teaching than from watching the thousands of impressive tutorial videos out there to show you how to paint. If I don’t have someone to ask questions or get instant feedback from to ensure I am doing things properly I don’t want to risk waiting the time and energy on something that might be so awful that I don’t want others to see. Now the my IG army continues to grow, over 300 infantry models not counting vehicles and Heavy Weapon Teams, just seems like too much of a daunting hill to climb with the limited free time I have and total lack of painting skill and lack of hands on knowledge.
Would be disappointed if someone turned down a game with me because of it but that is their right and I won’t hold it against them. Painted or not I’m still there to have a fun game and make friends while I’m at it which I hope what other people are therefor to.
The only way to learn is by doing. If you only watch videos or read books you really don't know how to do something. You just know how *others* do something. Buy yourself some cheap models off of ebay of differing types and just start painting away. You won't be perfect at first, but once you start *trying* the techniques you've been watching, you'll start to really learn how to do them. At 28mm scale painting is actually rather forgiving. You can acheive results with washes and dry brushing that you couldn't rely on in larger scales without looking muddied. The most important thing about painting is a steady hand and you learn that by doing also. A lot of the techniques are really very simple in practice and just require that steady hand and some consistency to look decent most of the time. You can't base your painting on that of others or you'll never paint anything. Even worse, don't expect to paint like the 'eavy metal folks any time soon either. I've been painting minis off and on for 30+ years and have never had enough time to get myself to that standard because I have a life and don't get paid to paint minis all day long to the exclusion of everything else.
One last suggestion, don't look at the whole of your force to paint. Just paint it one squad at a time. Eventually you will completely finish that IG army and you will be amazed. If you instead try to figure out how you are going to paint 300+ minis every time you look at it you will continue to do what you are already doing and never start. I had that problem with my 'nid horde. Not sure why with that army, but none of the others I have mind you, but that one I just couldn't get myself into a starting point and kept looking at the mass of it and never starting. Finally picked a unit of warriors and got started. Eventually the entire 3000+ point horde was done. IG are tough because the models are mostly the same, so what I would do when painting IG is paint a command squad and a couple of infantry squads, and then I would switch over and paint a unit of sentinels or a tank to break it up.
I am in the hobby for painting so I am always sad when I see an unpainted army. But I would rather see a single well painted unit and the rest of the army bare than an army of sloppy minis that were clearly speed painted to get 3 colors on them.
Spetulhu wrote: Paint or no paint, as long as I can make out what the unit is supposed to be I'm OK. Halfway assembled things are much worse IMO.
I actually think I'd refuse to play someone with unassembled models. I've never encountered that, so I have no idea how I'd even say that. Probably just end up playing them to avoid the awkward rejection.
I do like playing with/against painted miniatures. It's a part of the hobby - you know, why we play with little toy soldiers instead of cardboard chits.
That said, I'm not going to begrudge anyone who doesn't paint their miniatures, and I'm not going to come down on people who can't.
Actually, (and it's not 40k related, but bare with me), I enjoy playing against painted miniatures so much, that I painted all of my friends FoW Germans for him. We've gotten to the point where HE has more painted miniatures on the table then I do!
I find painting incredibly relaxing. I put on a podcast and before I know it it's time for me to go to bed.
I'm not sure how painting could be stressful, but maybe try painting for the hell of it, rather than because you want to get it done as quickly as possible. I find my best paint jobs are on the miniatures I don't care about getting on the table immediately. I picked up warhammer after a long hiatus because I wanted to relax and take my mind off work. Just so happened that I love playing the game too.
Painting can be very stressful, when you want it to look good, are very detail oriented, but not skilled at it.
Painting can be very stressful, when you want it to look good, are very detail oriented, but not skilled at it.
I see, I've never really had that experience personally. I'm not a brilliant painter, but I'm good enough to where I can add the detail I want without making mistakes. I suppose if I had to keep painting over mistakes only to do it again it would get rather stressful.
I'll play with anyone, of course, but it is nice if they at least have their models primed. Priming shows intention to paint, even if they never get that far. I understand what its like to have a busy life...but as was mentioned on the first page, if you're not into the hobby part of this game...why are you playing? GW business practices and game balance just doesn't merit being into this game for the game itself.
Sasori wrote: Painting can be very stressful, when you want it to look good, are very detail oriented, but not skilled at it.
Yeah, it can be. I get stressed with priming vehicles, because especially when it's black the imperfections of the plastic moulding process show through it, making it a pain in the arse.
Very rewarding to succeed in making a paint job you're satisfied with on a mini you like, though. Like I'm really happy how my terminator chaplain turned out this week. I LOVE the model, and I was worried I wouldn't be able to paint it to look good enough to be happy compared to how I wanted it, but luckily I did succeed. It did take me 10 hours over two days, but it was still well worth the time spent.
I have nerve damage in my dominant arm and cannot do precise things like painting for more than 5 minutes at a time without uncontrollable tremors. I guess that makes me a lazy person who doesn't appreciate the hobby.
Curran12, that's different. I really don't think anybody would be pissy if they see you. Thankfully this is somewhat of an anonymous message board (thanks to internets and all), so people are a bit more gruff. But you can definately tell the different between lazy people who hate the hobby and people who physically can not paint.
Usually the lazy people smell like BO and have orange cheeto fingers.
What bothers me, is when someones army is painted and they just love to brag about how their army is painted. Especially when it's not a very good paint job, but they think it is. Kinda like beer goggles. Now I understand you are proud of your own work, but come on now. Bragging about your okay paint job doesn't make you a good opponent.
Doesn't make you a good opponent
And that's the key. It shouldn't matter to you whatsoever how their army is done (painted I mean. Obviously if someone never finished building the models and they are using it to their advantage, that's a no-go) but it should matter how they act. If I can play one of two people, one without a painted army but he is a cool dude, and one with a very nicely done professional looking army but he is an ass you can bet I'm playing the unpainted guy.
Oh, and the card-board cut-outs thing is a stupid argument. That's completely different, seeing as the guy has obvious time to build the models but not enough time to paint them (which, for most people, can take much longer than actually building the army). Someone saying "I don't really have time to paint anymore" and them replying "Then use card-board cut-outs" just makes me not want to play them even more (NOTE: See above for rational)
Rysal190 wrote: Curran12, that's different. I really don't think anybody would be pissy if they see you. Thankfully this is somewhat of an anonymous message board (thanks to internets and all), so people are a bit more gruff. But you can definately tell the different between lazy people who hate the hobby and people who physically can not paint.
Usually the lazy people smell like BO and have orange cheeto fingers.
Then might it be more a sentiment of it being the person, not the army? And really, with people here going on about refusing to play unpainted armies or urging them to get cutout armies, I gotta say, I doubt your claim that you can tell the difference. This is not meant to go to you, but all of it sounds like people getting any kind of sense of entitled superiority that they can get, and if that means being a choad to those with unpainted armies, so be it.
Don't get me wrong. There's nothing better than two painted armies on a nice looking table. I totally concede that it adds a lot to the experience. But the game itself is far more important, and a game of 40k is a shared experience. When someone comes in with a "oh why are you so lazy" sneer, no amount of "oh well I guess I understand" really ever smooths that over.
And I do field painted armies, I commission friends and/or studios as I can afford because I appreciate good-looking models, but I do what I can. And I've been accused of cheapening the hobby for doing it. Even people who know I have nerve damage and have seen the jagged, 8-inch scar on my arm. So I really don't put a lot of stock into the understanding nature of fellow wargamers until I see it firsthand.
I usually work 14 hours a day, 6 days a week so once ive done that and the usual house work, ive got next to no time left.
But from time to time ill get into the mood for painting and take a day off to get some work done.
So my armies tend to go from grey to painted in a few weeks, but only once im in the mood for it.
The oddest excuse i find is "I have a life" I have seen people with jobs, wife's and kids who get armies painted faster then me to a higher standard.
But the clarify, The reason i hate unpainted armies is clear, They show no love for the hobby. Many people i meet who do not even paint their armies are still planning new ones. They jump from one to another not doing anything at all with painting.
And it takes the immersion out. Unpainted models or mismatched models just take me out of the game. Like playing a video games with no textured models.
hotsauceman1 wrote: The oddest excuse i find is "I have a life" I have seen people with jobs, wife's and kids who get armies painted faster then me to a higher standard.
But the clarify, The reason i hate unpainted armies is clear, They show no love for the hobby. Many people i meet who do not even paint their armies are still planning new ones. They jump from one to another not doing anything at all with painting.
And it takes the immersion out. Unpainted models or mismatched models just take me out of the game. Like playing a video games with no textured models.
Someone can love the hobby of miniature wargaming, and not love painting. I don't like to paint, but I thoroughly enjoy playing games.
...all of it sounds like people getting any kind of sense of entitled superiority that they can get, and if that means being a choad to those with unpainted armies, so be it.
...When someone comes in with a "oh why are you so lazy" sneer, no amount of "oh well I guess I understand" really ever smooths that over.
...And I've been accused of cheapening the hobby for doing it. Even people who know I have nerve damage and have seen the jagged, 8-inch scar on my arm. So I really don't put a lot of stock into the understanding nature of fellow wargamers until I see it firsthand.
Wow, I feel really sorry that there's donkey-caves out there that do this sort of thing to you. Perhaps I used too many 'shoulds'...though I definately SHOULD remember there's enough jerks out there in our little branch of society (isn't interesting how geeks tend to play social games like Warhammer and D&D, but tend to have the worst social skills?). It might be more of a sentiment of it being the person, but it may be somewhat of an extension of that. If you see 10 people with unpainted armies, and 9 of them have cheeto fingers, people are far more likely to say "all people who have unpainted armies are lazy." It's just a little jump we tend to make. The best I can say is don't let it get to you, but that is kind of like telling somebody who just had his legs cut off to walk it off.
Rysal190 wrote: Curran12, that's different. I really don't think anybody would be pissy if they see you. Thankfully this is somewhat of an anonymous message board (thanks to internets and all), so people are a bit more gruff. But you can definately tell the different between lazy people who hate the hobby and people who physically can not paint.
Usually the lazy people smell like BO and have orange cheeto fingers.
That's not the case at all. You're looking at the army, it's status is unpainted and unprimed. You're basing your assumption that he is lazy based off that. When presented with more facts, like Curran12's example, then you change your stance. You're moving the goal post by then claiming that lazy people are also smelly, dirty, and crusted in old food. Then do you have a problem with unpainted armies or do you have a problem with lazy people?
The biggest issue I have with this is that people are JUDGING people based ENTIRELY on the aesthetic look of their army. You can make up whatever excuse you want for the judgmental BS, but it's still going to be judgmental BS. How about instead of getting annoyed that a person hasn't painted their army, you spend the time and energy to get to know them. Then maybe you can start making actual judgements based on your experience with them.
Also, what's the big deal with primed or quickly painted models? I know it doesn't take that much time and effort for a talented person to quickly paint a model three different colors. The issue is that if someone can't paint well to the point they don't even want to try, then why are you promoting an attitude to make them feel more self concious about the issue of painting. You may be happy seeing a model hastily painted three colors, but you only have to see that model for a few hours in a game. That person will have to look at that model for the rest of the time they have it. I like to sketch and I have sketches hidden in 5 different sketches through my entire house because I hate looking at a sketch that I don't feel is up to par. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to paint, and I support them entirely.
Is priming any better really? It's a single monotone coating. It's just a different color than the all grey bare model.
I wrote a response to this comment on the third page and Curran12's example on this page to show you how wrong, inconsiderate, and even hurtful this statement is. I seriously hope that you understand what a baseless comment this is and how that attitude, shows no love or compassion for the hobby or the hobbyists that enjoy it.
Gotta love Dakka... cue hyperbole and holier-than-thou (from both sides)
Personally, my (arbitrary) standard for new people I play against is assembled WYSIWYG or obvious Counts As. That just helps the game to go smoother when playing someone I haven't played before. Generally, if I am playing someone for the first time, I try to use a fully painted force. I look at it as trying to put my best foot forward for the game and to try and make a good first impression with someone I might be playing many more games against in the future. If they aren't using a fully painted army, it doesn't bother me at all. I think it ups the coolness factor when both armies are fully painted, but if not, oh well.
Things are different when I am playing with my friends or a long-established gaming group, though. We might be playing campaign games where it helps "forge the narrative" if both armies are painted or we might be tweaking and tuning lists where WYSIWYG and painting go out the window because we are excited to try out our new cheese. And it's all relative, too. When I lived in Upstate NY, I was one of the few people in my area running fully painted armies. Here in VA now, most of the people I play have VERY nicely painted armies that make mine look crappy in comparison. It's the same as any other wargame issue, you have to communicate with your opponent and determine what you both are looking for in the game. If you do that, there really can't be any hard feelings.
TLDR: I have my armies painted, but don't think twice when someone plops down a horde of grey or primed plastic.
(Painted armies tend to roll better, though... just sayin')
Wow, I feel really sorry that there's donkey-caves out there that do this sort of thing to you. Perhaps I used too many 'shoulds'...though I definately SHOULD remember there's enough jerks out there in our little branch of society (isn't interesting how geeks tend to play social games like Warhammer and D&D, but tend to have the worst social skills?). It might be more of a sentiment of it being the person, but it may be somewhat of an extension of that. If you see 10 people with unpainted armies, and 9 of them have cheeto fingers, people are far more likely to say "all people who have unpainted armies are lazy." It's just a little jump we tend to make. The best I can say is don't let it get to you, but that is kind of like telling somebody who just had his legs cut off to walk it off.
Oh I get where you're coming from. I totally do. And thanks for the concern, but it is one of those things where it is 1 person out of 30 who gives me any kind of grief for it. It's so rare that it's nothing that really consumes me or even interferes that much in my daily hobby life, but on places like here, you get that echo chamber effect. Where one choad's voice is amplified and echoed until it is the overwhelming majority sentiment. I never try to be aggressive in pointing out my condition, but at the same time, I don't abide accusations against me by those who have no clue.
But to go off of what Savageconvoy said, how often does someone at a gaming table stop to ask about an unpainted army? I doubt it is addressed with an "oh I see your army is unpainted, what are you planning with them? Or are you having any problems?" kind of friendly question. More likely, I'd bet that 9 times out of 10, it is "oh. Unpainted. GROOOOAN." At that point, it isn't about the situation or reason for the models being unpainted, the person doing that groan has chosen to set the tone as antagonistic, and you can rest assured that the game (if it happens at all) is going to be significantly less pleasant for both parties. It's a nice ideal to think that we'd all take time to talk out and learn for sure if it is this supposed laziness or other some other reason, but we both know that it never goes down that way.
To me, it all comes down to the shared experience between two individuals. And that is down to just that: individuals. I have a lot of favorite opponents and they run the range of traits. My most favorite long-running opponent rarely paints and he is great in the hobby and game. My favorite opponent to practice tournament play on is the biggest cheapskate and proxies so much, but he is a damn fine player and good to play with. I have great games with gorgeous armies of all OOP models, and I have great games with unprimed armies. To me, painting and sneering at those who don't is just a way to introduce a chance for jackasses to be jackasses in a nice setting and think they have a justification.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I never said anything about those who cannot paint, I said about those who can, but do not.
Honest question here, and I mean it with all sincerity. But if I set up at a table with an unpainted army, what would you do? And please just give me the basic reaction. How would you react?
hotsauceman1 wrote: The reason i hate unpainted armies is clear, They show no love for the hobby.
You don't specify lazy people. You're specifying people with unpainted armies. When presented with proof that people are A.) Very involved and enthusiastic about the hobby B.) Not lazy, unmotivated, or for whatever reason they aren't able to paint then you're moving the goal post back and claiming that they are lazy. You're not making claims about lazy people and then showing unpainted armies as an example of their behavior. You look at unpainted armies then lable them as lazy to justify the distaste.
Someone purchased the required books for the game ($70 brb and $50 codex), bought all the expensive models (Personally my 500pt army is $250), and took the time to assemble and maybe even do conversions to meet the WYSIWYG standard. Some people claim it isn't enough at that point, they need to go above and beyond. But I'm sure all of you saw the move "Office Space." Tell me then, were you for or against the waitress who was being coerced to wear more flair because she was only doing the requirement.
Never seen office space. And you are correct, i did not specify lazy people, i made a generalization.
But let me ask you this. Why not paint your army? you
1: Have a great looking thing you can be proud of
2: Get great compliments.
3: If you dont like it, it can improve discipline and patience.
4: If you find it boring, put on a TV show you like, that is how i paint.
Painting is part of the entire hobby IMO.
Honest question here, and I mean it with all sincerity. But if I set up at a table with an unpainted army, what would you do? And please just give me the basic reaction. How would you react?
I would just shut my mouth and play. I said i hate them. I never said i wouldnt play them.
Playing a unpainted army is kinda like watching a new vivid color movie..on a black and white TV, can still be enjoyable but ultimately lacking its full potential.
I love painting , converting etc of my models, and would never field anything unfinished..but thats me, I dont impose my standards on anyone else.
I dont really plays games of 40k anymore for the thrill of winning, its more for the spectacle of the game, and a horde of grey plastic has little spectacle for me. :(
I have and will play grey hordes..but I wont seek out games with those kind of players, in the same way I dont think I will ever buy a black and white tv again.
My Military gaming group was fun though..the guys were not allowed to field unpainted models in a game, so during the week leading up to the game, the guys would be "competing" on getting the new stuff painted, but since they are expensive they also wanted them to look good, it was great fun to see the guys armies expand each week, and some of the soldiers enlisted their wives and kids in painting. And the Hobby actually became a more family affair, with peple bringing stuff to grill and food . It was nice.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Why not paint your army? you
1: Have a great looking thing you can be proud of
2: Get great compliments.
3: If you dont like it, it can improve discipline and patience.
4: If you find it boring, put on a TV show you like, that is how i paint.
Painting is part of the entire hobby IMO.
I can think of several different reasons why I wouldn't.
1.) Don't want to dedicate time and effort
2.) Don't want to get the painting supplies and set up
3.) Simply not wanting to. It's not required for the game, why should I?
4.) Self conscious. How do you know I'll get compliments? Have you seen some of the threads out there mocking paint jobs, not on this forum that I've seen but definately they exist? How do I know I won't end up on that?
5.) I turn the t.v. on when I sit down to paint. Well now the t.v. is on and I'm watching that. I hate painting but love the show, why should I pay attention to it?
There's still the issue that a lot of people aren't getting. It's my army, why should I paint it to satisfy you?
4.) Self conscious. How do you know I'll get compliments? Have you seen some of the threads out there mocking paint jobs, not on this forum that I've seen but definately they exist? How do I know I won't end up on that?
Wow man, it sounds like you have much worse problems than what it sounds. People are jerks; that's out there. We do all have our preferences but having never seen any of your attempts I am 1000% sure that whatever you do will be way better than some of the stuff I've seen. You only get better with practice. If you choose not to, that's cool. But dude, I can absolutely promise you that you are way better than you're giving yourself credit, purely based on the fact you're self conscious.
4.) Self conscious. How do you know I'll get compliments? Have you seen some of the threads out there mocking paint jobs, not on this forum that I've seen but definately they exist? How do I know I won't end up on that?
Wow man, it sounds like you have much worse problems than what it sounds. People are jerks; that's out there. We do all have our preferences but having never seen any of your attempts I am 1000% sure that whatever you do will be way better than some of the stuff I've seen. You only get better with practice. If you choose not to, that's cool. But dude, I can absolutely promise you that you are way better than you're giving yourself credit, purely based on the fact you're self conscious.
What really grinds my gears are blowhards that think that no one in the hobby should dare fielding a grey army.
I spent $400 on models this year, and yes, I've only painted 5 marines. As a result, actually, I haven't played a game yet because I'm afraid some superior neckbeard is going to criticize me for it and I'm going to be ostracized as someone who is not serious about the hobby.
Keep in mind, I just got into this hobby, I've been doing research into what units to buy and I finally made my first purchase, a couple of boxes of Dark Vengeance, and I'm worried that someone is going to criticize me for not having every one of my models painstakingly filed down and painted to a Professional Standard.
Will you people please relax and be more welcoming towards people in this hobby? Not everyone has had 2000 points in models laying around for 6 years and all the time to paint them. I have to work full time to spend $400 on a few piles of plastic models, and that means 40 hours a week that I'm not sitting around painting embossed shoulder insignias. Sorry.
Oh. Just remembered another great reason to not paint.
Indecisive: You can't figure out a good color scheme, are looking for a special one to come to mind, are waiting for inspiration, don't want to use a common scheme, or whatever reason.
It took me a while before I found a scheme I liked enough to finally put paint to plastic. I wouldn't rush anyone that hasn't found one that is perfect for them.
I love to paint but almost all of my armies are unpainted. Why? I love painting single miniatures to competition level quality; I have come to close to nabbing a crystal brush.
I had someone try to crap on me because I was playing a primer and plastic army; said I don't appreciate the hobby because I didn't paint my stuff. I should be "ashamed." Then my cohorts all told him about my competition models and that they all crap themselves when they see my detailed work.
I have an air brush now (won it in a painting competition...), so I'll be getting three colors on my play armies a lot faster. But to anyone that says bare plastic or primer armies are "lesser players," jog on.
Everyone gets something different from hobbies and we should be encouraging and not d-bags about it. Not everyone paints to my level. I know when I see armies better painted than my work, I feel a bit discouraged; if someone routinely gets harped on and sees pretty miniatures, they may feel like getting out rather than learning and putting the effort forth.
Stop being negative to others who run bare plastic. If they are TFG, it will be obvious above bare plastic or primer armies. Don't give those guys respect. However, NEVER look down on anyone with a bare plastic army. They'll paint someday and if not, they may still end up being great players and good friends. This is friendly hobby. We should support positive growth and not downer. If you can't play someone who doesn't have a painted army, you're the problem, not the other person.
TedNugent wrote: What really grinds my gears are blowhards that think that no one in the hobby should dare fielding a grey army.
I spent $400 on models this year, and yes, I've only painted 5 marines. As a result, actually, I haven't played a game yet because I'm afraid some superior neckbeard is going to criticize me for it and I'm going to be ostracized as someone who is not serious about the hobby.
Keep in mind, I just got into this hobby, I've been doing research into what units to buy and I finally made my first purchase, a couple of boxes of Dark Vengeance, and I'm worried that someone is going to criticize me for not having every one of my models painstakingly filed down and painted to a Professional Standard.
Will you people please relax and be more welcoming towards people in this hobby? Not everyone has had 2000 points in models laying around for 6 years and all the time to paint them. I have to work full time to spend $400 on a few piles of plastic models, and that means 40 hours a week that I'm not sitting around painting embossed shoulder insignias. Sorry.
No one is saying proffesional. People are just saying put some love on them.
I find painting incredibly relaxing. I put on a podcast and before I know it it's time for me to go to bed.
I'm not sure how painting could be stressful, but maybe try painting for the hell of it, rather than because you want to get it done as quickly as possible. I find my best paint jobs are on the miniatures I don't care about getting on the table immediately. I picked up warhammer after a long hiatus because I wanted to relax and take my mind off work. Just so happened that I love playing the game too.
It's not that it is stressful (it's not). it's more of the fact my idea of relaxing is drinking, reading a book and sleeping.
hotsauceman1 wrote: You are correct, it is your army, if you do not wish to paint it, then that is your rright.
but know that people will not like it and deal with it.
And why is it that people who choose not to paint have to "deal with it" but people who prefer their opponents to have painted armies don't have to "deal with it"?
I don't think I've ever read a thread where someone is annoyed at painted armies. Why is your version of fun "better" than someone who decides not to paint?
TedNugent wrote: I spent $400 on models this year, and yes, I've only painted 5 marines.... and I'm worried that someone is going to criticize me for not having every one of my models painstakingly filed down and painted to a Professional Standard.
I have to work full time to spend $400 on a few piles of plastic models, and that means 40 hours a week that I'm not sitting around painting embossed shoulder insignias. Sorry.
No one is saying proffesional. People are just saying put some love on them.
But what if he wants to spend time and effort on each and every model? People keep saying that you can slap three colors on and that would be fine. It may be, but it's your standard. Maybe he wants to take time and effort to paint as good of a model as possible within his abilites, which takes time and effort.
And then you claim that he isn't showing his models some love? I think some people have a greivous misunderstanding of this concept.
No one is saying proffesional. People are just saying put some love on them.
I love my models enough not to crap on them. I'm talking snapfits and I'm taking at least a week on each one, granted I spend most of my day at work and I'm procrastinating something fierce.
I'm making sure that color seams are close to where it needs to be. I don't want crummy paint jobs. I've only got 5 models painted but at least they're painted precisely.
hotsauceman1 wrote: They have to deal with it aswell, not everyone gets their way.
I don't understand.
A non painter "shows no love for the hobby" to quote you and should try over and over until they get a paint job they're happy with (again, according to you) but painters should just deal with non painted minis?
I've got very little attention span when it comes to painting models. I'll spend a few hours converting one then leave it unpainted for months.
Of my current army about 2/3rds of what I field is painted. The majority of which is the Traitor Guard element. Why? Because the models (Bretonnians ...with Tommy guns) are so much simpler to paint than my Chaos Space Marines. I rarely get around to painting the rest because painting just doesn't do it for me is building the things. Spending a while making a model to not do it justice when its painted is a little disheartening. Which is to say that I have a innate need to dry brush and ink everything. =P
I really couldn't care less if the other guy's army is painted or not. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I'd prefer playing an unpainted army as opposed to one that looked like it was painted by a blind monkey. Mine are about 60-70% painted, and I work on them in between doing projects for other people. How much I enjoy a game is about 99% derived from the personality of the person across the table, not what their army looks like.
I don't care if it is unpainted. I hate when they have no heads and arms. 2 people have armies like that. One GK player has Guys with no arms or heads and Rhinos that have no tracks, front/back hatches, and heavy bolters. I like wysiwug. I might stop playing people who don't at least assemble their armies. It cost me my last game. I thought I had killed his ML space wolves so I didn't move my Doom. He insta killed it with an armless ML guy I thought was a bolter. I could have hid from the ML and forced snap shots if I knew that it was a ML.
I have a largely unpainted army because I want all my models to be to a high standard...and I am just absolute pants at painting.
Unassembled or half assembled armies are where I draw the line. If one of your dreadknights doesn't have arms cause you're trying to figure out your favorite loadout, then that's fine. I only have to remember what that one model has. If your entire army has no arms and I have to take your word on what weapons they have, that's a no-fly zone.
I am currently paying certain individuals who paint far better then me to complete my armies. However before then I have always had unpainted armies due to the fact that I have work, school and military obligations as well as spending time with my GF and friends in other hobbies and activities. Do I want a painted army? Yes, its adds alot of personality and makes the game look that much better. Will I refuse an opponent who does not have the models/paint job on his army? Never, anyone that thinks that "his army is not painted so I am not playing him" honestly sounds like a total prick and I probably would not want to play him. Some people have priorities over warhammer and people like that need to get over themselves and realize that.
I am trying to get my army painted, but I paint terribly. And before you say "just practice" I have been in the "just practice" phase for ten years now. Its not happening, I simply lack the fine motor skills to paint well and whenever I do get them painted I feel the people at my club silently judging me for being a terrible painter. And don't you dare try to claim I have self worth issues, I simply like well painted models and feel bad that I cannot produce models like that. I try to get things done but that will always be in the back of my mind and slow my progress. In my opinion the person behind the minis matters more than the painted state of the minis.
I feel that no paint is usually better than a rushed paintjob I'll feel bad about everytime I see the model. I guess that is why I have no requirements for the painting of my opponent.
But our group have pretty high painting skills and standars anyway. There are seldom grey plastics on the table and lot of nice conversions. I think this is because most of us play pretty relaxed games with non-optimized lists.
I would like to play with only painted models, but I would also like to enjoy painting my models. Painting huge amount of similary looking warriors or vehicles are never fun. Especially when the warriors spend one turn on the table before being burned by a helldrake.
That is one of the reasons I have begun to switch over to skirmished sized games like Malifaux. It gives more varity in the painting which make it feel less like a chore.
This is a tough one. I have no problem playing an unpainted army as I have an "IN progress" army also. I do paint my army over time and have a constantly evolving army or two. However I started with Rogue Trader and the first rule still sticks in my head "Your army must be painted....LOL This is a game and I rarely play in any kind of formal environment where it really matters and it is just about fun. I do agree that having painted armies on display and in battle does make it a much more satisfactory experience. And yes you do need to have assembled minitures. I know some can suffer damage in transport ect. I am more about having a good game than anything else. So game on and destroy the half-hearted armies on the table and let the lack-a-dasiclels understand the power of finely painted minitures loose on the table top. Tell them that the unwritten rule will unlock the devastation potential of theris. I am rambling.. Have fun.
I no longer play with any unpainted models in my army. I never feel quite right if I field an army that has one or two 'incompletions', as I will constantly focus on them during the game. The motivation is good for me, too, to actually get stuff painted. If I know there is a tournament coming up in a month, and I really want to use several new models, then I 'have' to get them painted before the tournament. It's also nice consolation, if I get annihilated in a game, that at least I went out in style, especially if it was against an unpainted army.
This is how I enjoy the hobby, though, so I have no restrictions on my opponents when it comes to fielding unpainted models.
To answer the original post; does it grind my gears to see unpainted armies? No. It is not my army. However, I play in tournaments and my army has to be painted. Do I play pick-up games with unpainted models though? Absolutely. But I think what most people are saying on this thread is: What would make you decline playing someone? Some say that they would decline someone who proxies armies. Others would turn down someone who doesn't have a single model painted or primed. Some say that it is a case by case basis, and I think that is true for everyone. I would refuse to play someone who would poop in my drive way if I won. No body wants that... But at my local gaming store the clientele is a dead division of either kids under the age of 17 or over the age of 25. If a 17 year old high schooler wanted to play me and had 95% of his army unpainted, I would still play him. I would play him because I am an ambassador for the game that I enjoy playing, and I want to have a good time and want my opponent to have a good time. There is a reason why in tournament play there is a score for sportsmanship.
I run a pretty much completely unpainted army. It never has bothered me. I enjoy the gaming aspect of 40k but could really care less about the modeling/painting aspect. The only reason I would even consider painting is if a tourny in my local area required it. I know that's not even close to the norm but eh to each their own.
Urgh. This "grinds my gears" more than any amount of painting or lack thereof.
Understandable. However I find no joy in it at all and would rather go workout, climb, stare at a wall, etc. I only care about the tactics of the game and rolling dice. I do enjoy conversions/modeling but that's another story. Now I enjoy seeing other peoples completed work but I look at it like I do tattoos. I appreciate the artwork but wouldn't put it on myself (or in this case paint the model).
Urgh. This "grinds my gears" more than any amount of painting or lack thereof.
Understandable. However I find no joy in it at all and would rather go workout, climb, stare at a wall, etc. I only care about the tactics of the game and rolling dice. I do enjoy conversions/modeling but that's another story. Now I enjoy seeing other peoples completed work but I look at it like I do tattoos. I appreciate the artwork but wouldn't put it on myself (or in this case paint the model).
Yes, but we still don't know how much less you could care.
For me the visual aspect of the game is really important, and I really appreciate that my enemy has a painted army, and I'm much more likely to arrange game with people that do.
I understand that different people value different aspects of the game, and that's fine. But I don't think that preferring to play with people who share my preferences is anyway wrong or elitist of me.
Hordy armies (like orks) its really effing hard to field a 1500-2000 pt boy heavy army fully painted because they scream for so much detailed painting (i dont speed paint even my boyz, they get a legit paintjob...least by my standards im no pro painter that appears in White Dwarf or anything) but when people field stuff from Grey Knights or Nidzilla lists unpainted....really? you have like 15-20 models to paint....atleast give them table-top quality lol. I have over 90 models painted and still working on it to field a fully painted army for once, but again...over 90 models vs 15-20...cmon dude lol.
Painting isnt fun for me and I play an IG army and no place to paint models as I share my room with my brother and his piano is already taking up most of our room . It also costs a lot, I would rather buy some plasma guns for my veterans or marbo or a tank then buy paints , brushes and find a place to paint god only knows where.
Makumba wrote: Painting isnt fun for me and I play an IG army and no place to paint models as I share my room with my brother and his piano is already taking up most of our room . It also costs a lot, I would rather buy some plasma guns for my veterans or marbo or a tank then buy paints , brushes and find a place to paint god only knows where.
This is quite untrue. A basic tabletop Guard scheme can be done with two primary colours, silver, a skin tone, a brown, two washes (Id recommend Army Painter Dark Tone Ink for the silver, and Army Painter Strong Tone or Light Tone for the overall model) and a colour primer, with one brush (a GW standard sized brush, but buy it at an art store for 80% less). Make sure the colour primer is one of the primary colours. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army. This method is also quite fast and gets a decent looking army on the table.
For example (spoilered if you don't really care):
Spoiler:
Standard Cadian. Use something like Army Painter Bone primer. Buy a GW green you like, and their Bone colour (colour matching the bone isn't very necessary). Those primer cans are called army sized for a reason - you'll get about a 1500pt Guard army done with one. Prime everything. Go over any parts missed by the primer with the GW bone colour. Paint the armour sections green. Paint any gun holsters, canteens, boots, etc brown. Paint the gun silver, with either green or brown furniture. Paint the skin whatever skin colour you grabbed.
Slather your Strong or Soft tone ink on the model, except the silver. Wait to dry. Now wash any silver parts Dark tone. Grab your primary colours, and layer them over the raised parts of their respective washed portions. You can knock out a whole squad in a day using this method. For an example of the results, these are some Infinity models painted using this exact technique (with the exception that I prime Grey rather than colour).
I'll still play a game with the person, its just not as enjoyable. I notice the more competitive players in my area seem to paint less. But as long as there is an intent to eventually paint, im okay with unpainted minis
This is quite untrue. A basic tabletop Guard scheme can be done with two primary colours, silver, a skin tone, a brown, two washes (Id recommend Army Painter Dark Tone Ink for the silver, and Army Painter Strong Tone or Light Tone for the overall model) and a colour primer, with one brush (a GW standard sized brush, but buy it at an art store for 80% less). Make sure the colour primer is one of the primary colours. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army. This method is also quite fast and gets a decent looking army on the table.
You can say to someone all you need t do is this this and that and we can both paint models, your will look good and mine will look horrible. Some people just lack the aptitude for it.
This is quite untrue. A basic tabletop Guard scheme can be done with two primary colours, silver, a skin tone, a brown, two washes (Id recommend Army Painter Dark Tone Ink for the silver, and Army Painter Strong Tone or Light Tone for the overall model) and a colour primer, with one brush (a GW standard sized brush, but buy it at an art store for 80% less). Make sure the colour primer is one of the primary colours. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army. This method is also quite fast and gets a decent looking army on the table.
You can say to someone all you need t do is this this and that and we can both paint models, your will look good and mine will look horrible. Some people just lack the aptitude for it.
The method I described takes hardly any aptitude. You can even skip the relayering and have a decent looking tabletop force, and the only aptitude required is being able to 'colour inside the lines'. Put down the basic colours, making sure to stay in the lines, hit the whole model with an army painter ink. Done, tabletop quality.
Urgh. This "grinds my gears" more than any amount of painting or lack thereof.
Understandable. However I find no joy in it at all and would rather go workout, climb, stare at a wall, etc. I only care about the tactics of the game and rolling dice. I do enjoy conversions/modeling but that's another story. Now I enjoy seeing other peoples completed work but I look at it like I do tattoos. I appreciate the artwork but wouldn't put it on myself (or in this case paint the model).
In case you still aren't understanding his statement...
"Could care less" is not the right phrase 99.999% of the time. You should say "couldn't care less".
I like the way my army looks painted, so I try to paint it up as much as I can. Time constraints mean it'll probably never be 'complete' to my own standard and will rather end up as a perpetual project of mine. What other people do with their own minis is absolutely no concern of mine.
Don't enjoy painting that much, and no paint requirements in my area, so unless the bug bites I don't because 1) I don't enjoy it, 2) I'm not good at it, and 3) would rather spend money on models and time on HW/Games
Urgh. This "grinds my gears" more than any amount of painting or lack thereof.
Understandable. However I find no joy in it at all and would rather go workout, climb, stare at a wall, etc. I only care about the tactics of the game and rolling dice. I do enjoy conversions/modeling but that's another story. Now I enjoy seeing other peoples completed work but I look at it like I do tattoos. I appreciate the artwork but wouldn't put it on myself (or in this case paint the model).
In case you still aren't understanding his statement...
"Could care less" is not the right phrase 99.999% of the time. You should say "couldn't care less".
I should have caught that. Gotta quit day drinking and posting on dakka...
I personally only field models in my army that are fully painted. I really don't care whether or not my opponent's army is partially grey or even fully unpainted.
25 minutes to paint (not including drying)
sprayed with bone colour primer/undercoat
painted red parts
painted quick shade
job done
even this is 100% better then an unpainted model.
In your opinion. For people with higher standards why should they waste the 25 minutes to paint this, the hours to strip and then the days to re-paint? Why not just assemble and then play with minis that are WIP?
Or if you loathe painting like me, I'd rather do many things than waste 5-25 minutes per mini (my current Nid army is really low model count - only 27 plus 2 Tervigons... But I've run upwards of 80) just to have to strip them later "when I have time to do it right".
In your opinion. For people with higher standards why should they waste the 25 minutes to paint this, the hours to strip and then the days to re-paint?
You don't have to strip it. If you later want to paint it better, this is perfectly good starting point. Just start adding highlights and other details on it.
25 minutes to paint (not including drying)
sprayed with bone colour primer/undercoat
painted red parts
painted quick shade
job done
even this is 100% better then an unpainted model.
And what about the Chaos Chosen that come with the Dark Vengeance set? They have a grotesque amount of detail on them, and as a person that really likes to paint their minis well, it is incredibly time consuming to "just paint in the lines" considering most of those lines are jagged and asymmetrical.
Or course you can paint any tyranid model with ridiculous ease and have them look decent. Even Orks and Imperial Guard can do the same with only slightly more effort expended. But painting highly detailed models or trying to get a CSM's armor to not look like absolute ass takes a bit more time than that.
So plucking out a random model then telling everyone how ridiculously easy to paint it is doesn't really add anything to the discussion about whether or not it is acceptable for a person to have a largely unpainted army considering that the word "army" could mean a million easy to paint gribbles, or a smaller, far more detail oriented force of models.
However, it does raise an interesting question. Do you find it worse if a Tyranid or Imperial Guard player has an unpainted army rather than someone who say...has an army made up entirely of forgeworld/highly detailed models?
. That's 7 paints and a spray can, and a brush. For your whole army.
yes and even If I got to a hobby store and not buy GW paints and buy the cheapest black undercoat , I have one unit less then If I didnt buy them at all. Paying for something I neither want or can do is a waste of cash for me , on the other hand If I used the money to buy models I will be using them all the time.
The method I described takes hardly any aptitude. You can even skip the relayering and have a decent looking tabletop force, and the only aptitude required is being able to 'colour inside the lines'. Put down the basic colours, making sure to stay in the lines, hit the whole model with an army painter ink. Done, tabletop quality.
sure buy me a place to paint close to my home and I will do it .
My only rules - ASSEMBLE YOUR FREAKING MODELS. No torso-less legs on bases or headless tac marines, etc. Make a fair attempt at WYSIWYG (which is more for simplicity sake than anything) and where you can't do that, right it down and let me know ahead of time. That's IT. I would RATHER play against a fully painted army and I always try to paint my stuff to the best of my abilities, but I recognize that not everyone has the time/money/skill/inclination, etc to paint. So to me, being upset about it is like saying "You're having fun wrong!" lol I just can't take my war dollies that seriously.
I wish people would stop confusing the HOBBY with the GAME.
For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.
I have had painted armies before and I hate doing it so much so I quit playing for awhile. If you enjoy painting i'm glad , hell might even envy you. It is not and will never be for me, But I enjoy the hell out of the game.
If you refuse to play me cause I don't have a painted army is your right. Just like it's my right not to paint it, But in all honesty it saids a lot worst about you then me. I would never refuse a game to anyone ever because I enjoy the game not the hobby.
For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.
That's not equal at all. Chess players aren't expected to make their own board. Miniature wargamers aren't expected to design and cast their own figures.
If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?
If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?
I really really hate this argument. An unpainted Space Marine is still WAY cooler than than a paper cutout. Plus, if someone can't, doesn't like to or simply won't paint, what makes you think they will take the time to make proper cutouts? And why even bother stopping at cutouts? anyone remember that batrep from a few years back where an entire Ork Army was proxied from match sticks? No. Just no. It's a silly argument imo, and not at ALL the same thing. Do some of you seriously not see a difference between an assembled but unpainted mini and a candyland style paper cutout? Really?
For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.
That's not equal at all. Chess players aren't expected to make their own board. Miniature wargamers aren't expected to design and cast their own figures.
If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?
Because with true line of sight cutouts don't properly configure the game right.
Speaking of which, that cutout thing at this point is pretty elitist when it comes down to it. People like the models, but they don't like to paint. "Oh sorry, get cutouts if your not a TRUE HOBBYIST."
If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?
I really really hate this argument. An unpainted Space Marine is still WAY cooler than than a paper cutout. Plus, if someone can't, doesn't like to or simply won't paint, what makes you think they will take the time to make proper cutouts? And why even bother stopping at cutouts? anyone remember that batrep from a few years back where an entire Ork Army was proxied from match sticks? No. Just no. It's a silly argument imo, and not at ALL the same thing. Do some of you seriously not see a difference between an assembled but unpainted mini and a candyland style paper cutout? Really?
Well, here's the thing. I've seen (and played) plenty of wargames that use hex-boards and cardboard chits. Those are for the 'gamers' - the people who are there to play a wargame without the visuals of miniatures. (And I'm not saying they're in any way inferior - I own a few myself).
The point of miniatures is to use them as a visual aid to play a wargame. Their use is completely superfluous to the game. Why waste the time and cash of buying and assembling miniatures when you could use circular cutouts with the relevant data printed on them?
I should also add that I'm not the kind of guy who won't play you because you don't have a painted army. I won't give you crap for not being able to paint your miniatures, or if you'd like to take your time. What I will argue against is the idea that, somehow, miniature wargaming and painting aren't in any way related.
This interests me though - are prepainted miniatures, then, a viable alternative? Should GW sell their miniatures with a prepaint color scheme (say, Ultramarines for Space Marines, Cadians for IG, etc.?)
For some people they are the same, for others not. I am a Gamer not a hobbyist. I enjoy playing the game. Thats like telling a chess player you won't play him cause he didn't make his own chess board, or he can't fish cause he didn't make his own pole.
That's not equal at all. Chess players aren't expected to make their own board. Miniature wargamers aren't expected to design and cast their own figures.
If you're simply a 'gamer', then why don't you save yourself a lot of cash and play the game with paper cutouts?
really? Hmmm..? Seems it dosn't matter what is expected or enjoyed it matters what the other player wants that is your stance.
I could save myself some cash and walk around in underwear and a bathrobe ,too but i don't i wear jeans and a t-shirt cause i want to.
An to answer the question yes I would just play with cut outs if i had to. I did for years with Battletech before they had any minies. I did with 40k 2nd
with cut out dreads.
to me their kewl game pieces to you their models that are works of art. I respect how you view of it. Please respect mine thats all I ask.
interesting responses in this thread... definitely a few people I hope to never run into at the gaming table
to answer the OP's question: facing an unpainted army doesn't bother me. would I prefer to play painted armies? absolutely. would I refuse to play unpainted armies? no way. that'd be a pretty crappy thing to do, imo. there are all kinds of reasons people don't paint their minis and all of those reasons are valid. it's not really my place to argue with someone about why they haven't painted their army or to even try and talk them into it. they've made their choice and I accept that.
personally, I won't field an unpainted model. this is a limitation I freely placed upon myself back when I got started simply because I prefer the aesthetic of a fully painted army. I got into the hobby to paint, originally, and I put a lot of time and effort into every one of my minis (thank the dark gods I don't play a horde army...). painting is an aspect of the hobby that I very much enjoy, even if it drives me crazy at times that said, I would never expect other players to feel the same way about it that I do. so long as my opponent is cool, I'll play against them any day.
proxies are a different matter, because they can effect how the game is played. if we're just talking wargear options ("this guy has a power sword"), then I could care less. just have it written down on your list somewhere. if we're talking models that are at least of similar size to what they're being proxied as, fine. using a guardsman to proxy a space marine or a rhino to proxy a predator, for example. LOS, facing, model footprint, measuring and whatnot will work similarly enough to the real model that it doesn't screw with the rules at all. I draw the line at crazy stuff like "this 40mm base, which has no model on it, is a dreadknight" or "this soda can is really a stormraven". at least bring something that's the right size to the table even then, though, I'd probably let it slide for a game or two...
I don't mind playing with unpainted armies, even if the whole army is grey. There is a worst offender (me)
I'm a worst offender becuase I love the warhammer 'hobby'. Sometimes I play with painted marines on only its legs and torso attached. One game I had to tell me opponent my one full squad of Blood Angel Assault marine the red ones are normal, black ones have meta guns and gold one is sergent. I felt bad that game too but my oppounite saw that I already have 2 full squads of assault marine he said he didn't mind.
We all have our take on how this 40K hobby should be. I think to be a good gamer you have to respect your opponent's take on it. If my opponent can show me they love to game as much as I do I won't mind playing cardboard pieces.
Wow, lots of hyperbole here! Everyone has his or her own standard, and that's ok. Everyone's case is unique.
Personally, I hate playing with unpainted models. To me, if a unit isn't ready to take the field, it isn't ready to take the field. Luckily my little group agrees, more or less. I would still play somebody if his or her army were unpainted, but then again I don't play pick-up games so this may not be relevant to me.
40K is both a game and a hobby, and immersion is an important part of the hobby. Those saying why not use card cutouts aren't being ridiculous, they are just asking where do you then draw the line? If unpainted armies are fine, then what about terrain? Are a tennis shoe and a beer can on the table just fine then too? "I don't have time to make any terrain, so let's fight over that box of pop tarts." Does the game still play ok? Sure. Nevertheless, is something lost in the process?
I like to paint all the models I can, but I'm a slow painter at the best of times, and even when I paint I'm not very good. Even so, I at least undercoat everything before it comes out, and I wont buy any more until the stuff is painted. In this group I played with, you would lose points for each unit that was unpainted, in an attempt to make sure people kept up with their warhammer.
I don't like playing unpainted armies. I don't judge the person doing it, but I prefer the opponents that have fully painted armies, preferably nice looking, but I don't mind basic as long as it's neat.
That's my opinion, I enjoy the game more when the visuals are good (nice terrain, nice armies, nice venue).
Buying, assembling/converting, painting and then using miniatures in the game is what my hobby is about.
I like painted minatures I enjoy painting them (find it relaxing) and seeing them painted but what I like shouldnt matter to someone else.
So I wouldnt mind playing against an unpainted army where it be the whole army or just a few models as long as its a fun game same as I dont care if I play against vetrain players or newbies as long as the models are there.
Simple solution to if you dont like play against unpainted armys is pant the minatures for them if they want that way it solves your problem.
As for fighting over boxes used to do that way back in the beginning or use bed sheets as the terrain and put boxes underneath for hills aah the good old days lol
i would play people with unpainted armies.why not its a game right?
personally i do not want my army to be unpainted but at the same time i dislike painting im not good at it, its a chore, not fun and enervating(works on my nerves?).
doesnt help either that i still have 40+ boyz to paint 10 nobz, 3 deffkoptas and 2 looted wagons
and the worst part is i paint so that my opponent would have nothing to complain about and then they start critisising my painting and not in the constructive manner!
500pt games ftw!
not not really, But only thing that "grinds my gears" (thankyou peter griffin) is when a gamer can paint his models to a high standard but uses blu-tack instead of glue (cheaper/quicker than magnetizing) to hold his/her models together
I have quite a few things that grind my gears and unpainted armies aren't one of them. To me it's a game, so why should I get upset about an unpainted army?
Although I have been seriously entertaining the idea of getting the local body shop here to paint my car Dark Angels green .
Jack_Death wrote: Like Skriker, I've been gaming for decades. In all of that time, across many different rulesets and periods, I have never put an unpainted miniature on the table. I have put some godawful ugly paintjobs on the table, especially when I was young, broke, and just learning how to paint.
For me, half the fun is looking at the models. That said, I would never comment on someone else's army, skill level, time commitment, or anything else that is frankly none of my business.
Now, if you want to play at my house you'll bring a painted army. Outside of my own space I am happy to get a game in with anyone regardless of the state of their army.
Certainly a balanced approach. I've got no problems with someone else's house rules on painted armies, just find it eminently amusing when someone shows up at a local shop at random and then complains that not everyone has an army that is fully painted, with all hand painted chapter and unit markings with every model customized and on a miniature diorama base.
Best moment for me that always pops into my head with these threads was watching a friend's game and my friend's opponent complaining from the moment he set the first one on the table that my friend's otherwise decent painted minis had no flocking on the bases and how horrible that made the minis look, and how it ruined the game, blah, blah, blah....he finally "chose" to play the game anyway and began pulling his minis out. Firstly yes all of his minis had flocked bases, but beyond that it looked like a 4 year old had painted his army, no lie. They were the worst looking minis I had ever seen and had the most god awful color scheme possible and this guy was ranting that my friends army made the game look horrible because the bases weren't flocked. Um...yeah...only time I EVER commented in a negative way about someone else's paint job. Couldn't not do it after the rant we had just listened to...
If someone hands me a mini that isn't remotely close to the best I've ever seen and is really proud of it, my initial comment is always "Cool!" If they ask for painting advice I will offer some I think might help, but otherwise if they are happy with their mini then I am happy with their mini too. That is respect for a fellow human being.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
curran12 wrote: And I do field painted armies, I commission friends and/or studios as I can afford because I appreciate good-looking models, but I do what I can. And I've been accused of cheapening the hobby for doing it. Even people who know I have nerve damage and have seen the jagged, 8-inch scar on my arm. So I really don't put a lot of stock into the understanding nature of fellow wargamers until I see it firsthand.
Sadly Curran, some people are tools and they will ALWAYS be tools...can't really worry about or care about what they have to say. I am glad you said "people you know" and not "friends" who know you have nerve damage who still say so definitely are not friends of yours. Some people have never had any *real* issues in their lives so have no understanding of the impact they can have.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: Never seen office space. And you are correct, i did not specify lazy people, i made a generalization.
But let me ask you this. Why not paint your army? you
1: Have a great looking thing you can be proud of
2: Get great compliments.
3: If you dont like it, it can improve discipline and patience.
4: If you find it boring, put on a TV show you like, that is how i paint.
Painting is part of the entire hobby IMO.
Why worry about others painting their army? I've painted half a dozen full armies and hundreds if not thousands of other minis as parts of other armies in the time I've been involved in the mini gaming hobby. Just because the minis I have on the table today aren't painting means nothing towards my love of the hobby or my commitment to painting in any way, shape or form. You are just creating a snap judgement against someone because of a single instance of minis on a table. I have a full time job, am a volunteer fire fighter, work in cat rescue, am in a band and also a member of the 501st legion, so that all adds up to very little free time in a week. That free time covers things like laundry, cleaning the house, taking care of my own cats, repairs around the house and any mini gaming related stuff I want to fit into the week. Most weeks it comes down to paint or play with a small block of time and in that situation play wins every time. I haven't painted a mini in over a year. I have added some minis to my collection in that time so they see the table without any paint. Hardly the end of the world. I love my life as crazy as it is and if I had so little on my plate I could spend my time being cranky that someone else didn't have the common courtesy to paint their minis and not ruin the asthetics of my gaming experience I think I would be bored out of my mind...and might go bonkers...
I will agree that painting is a part of the hobby, but ONLY a part. In 23+ years in this hobby I have never let painting dictate anything about how/when I play the game. It has its time and place just like playing does, but since the reason I buy these minis first and foremost is to play the game with them it is kind of dumb to not play because of some push by someone who is offended by unpainted minis to get them painted and meet their deadline imposed on me as to when they think that I should have my minis painted by. Love those posts from people putting month limits on their acceptance of those who haven't painted their minis as if it is *their* choice and decision how and when someone else paints their own minis. Really amusing to me....
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MetalOxide wrote: What I find funny is that some people say that they have no time to paint, yet have time to assemble the miniatures and have games.
Let's ask ourselves a couple questions shall we?
1) Can one play a mini game if their miniatures are still in the boxes? Answer: No. So that means we have to build our minis.
2) Why do we buy all these stupidly over priced minis? Answer: To play the game with. So that means once we have built minis we are actually going to, gasp, play the game.
3) Can you play the game with minis that have no paint on them? Answer: Yes. Nothing stops thoses minis from being used on the table in the least.
So there you have it. A rather straight forward explanation of how people that say they have no time to paint have time to assemble and to play. Honestly if someone has to paint everything before they play to appease the demands of others I know many people who wouldn't even bother.
"Oh cool I spent $800 on this army that is now built, but I can't use it until I spend the next 6 months painting it all in my little free time so as to not offend the sensibilities of some elitist twit at the game store", said no on ever....
Unfortunately I am one of these individuals that hasn't painted pretty much anything in my army..... Sorry armies! It takes too long and being a hard working individual that has a selection of hobbies and interests doesn't have the time. Frankly does it matter? I think not. I agree with lots of other people that have posted, in that I play for fun. I want to have a good game against friendly opponents-regardless of wether they're armies are painted. For the record my friend and I have over 6k points of orks, 6k of space marines, and about 5k of choas + tau, guardsmen, necron, tyranids and many other. Can kinda see why we don't have much painted.
Orkimedes1000 wrote: not not really, But only thing that "grinds my gears" (thankyou peter griffin) is when a gamer can paint his models to a high standard but uses blu-tack instead of glue (cheaper/quicker than magnetizing) to hold his/her models together
Well, it depends on how one does the blu-tacking. I mean, the only things I glue on my marines is the center torso pieces to each other, and if I use magnets, those have to be glued in place. Legs and head are attached to torso with blu-tack to allow reposing, shoulder pads are attached to arms with blu-tack, etc. But recently I've just mostly used blu-tack for arms too. Aside from being easier there's also the fact that usually the blu-tacked arms stay in place better than magnets. My magnetized power armor arms tend to keep falling off especially if the models are in a tight formation (like pushed base to base in a close combat) which is a major pain.
Anyway, in some cases the blu-tack isn't visible at all. It has a lot to do with the model's pose. A regular Bolter marine for example usually hides its blu-tack pretty well. With CC units it's harder, since the arms are usually "spread out."
Although I can appreciate the difference when facing painted armies. I really get peeved when I have to field my own unpainted models. Drives me nuts, and I hold to the solemn truth that UNPAINTED MODELS DIE FIRST!!! I've greatly increased the model count of my Daemon army since the Codex, and its driving me nuts when I get in games while I still have to field unpainted models. Every game is followed by hours of painting, stupid compulsive issues....
I'm interested to see what people think of players such as myself.
I have an entire guard force using DKOK models from forgeworld. I spent a LOT of time custom meddling and converting each one. But they are all just primered black.
Why do you ask? Because I can't paint. Really. I've tried, and RUINED my test models over and over again. Strip, retry, fail. Those forgeworld minis are not very forgiving.
Would you all really deny a player a game? All because he lacks an innate ability to paint?
I would rather the models be completely bare than primed black. It makes it so much harder to see what the models are when the entire thing is a matte black blob, making it harder to play.
But even so, it's nice if they're painted but as long as I can tell them apart it's fine! I wouldn't even turn down a game against the black blobs.
J0kerrMT wrote: I think painting is part of the game..if you don't want to paint would it be acceptable to use print outs of the models that have the gear very visible? Of course not. If you don't have the time and/or money you really should find another hobby.
There are great hobby games out there (example: MAGIC) that require just the purchase of the product to play.
IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE: You can always print out foldouts of the WH40K army. This would let you play the game with no money problems or painting problems. Would that be acceptable to other gamers....I am guessing not. Now please reply in a new comment so everyone can see it instead of hiding in your edits.
In all honesty, cut outs would anger me more than unpainteds. Seeing cutouts would piss me off due to the fact that the opposing player didn't even put money into the hobby. The moment one paper model was put on the table whilst I was setting up, I would immediately start packing up. I've spent ALOT of money on this hobby, and have painted as many of my models as possible, at the same time, showing active growth in the hobby.
Not at all, unless of course my models are painted and they proceed to critique my work while setting up grey and dark grey minis.....
Do I get why you play 40k if you don't want to paint the models?
Nope, I can't understand at all, to me an intergral part of 40k in fact the most fun part of 40k is developing a theme and incorporating that across your army. If I wanted a game of tactics and skill I'd play a RTS. 40k is barely a functioing tabletop game as is, every other month the newest army comes out and breaks the system, I play for the fun of seeing awesome minis and having enjoyable fun battles. So I don't care if you play with unpainted minis I will still play you and even play you again, but it will be a lot less fun than seeing a cool painted army set up across from me.
Bytheway if you proceed to not paint because you are too busy buying the latest and greatest power gaming units than I will have problem as well, I never refuse to play but I doubt I will be very personable while we have a game.
I prefer to play against a painted army, but I am quite understanding if someone has constraints that don't give them time to. For instance if I play against someone with an unpainted army and them a month or so later there has been no progress made on it, then it feels like they can't be bothered and an unpainted army does diminish the experience.
I work 45 hours a week but still have time to get my things painted, I don't have kids or anything though but there is an element of pride in having a nicely painted force on the table. If someone doesn't paint their models then i'll usualyl just make sure I win
Waging war with painted minis against painted minis make me happy, I dont look down on anyone because they arnt painted. i have about 4000 points of Sisters of Battle painted fully, 2000 of Grey knights painted fully. But only like 800 points of chaos out of 8000 points i have. I never refuse a battle because their models arnt painted. I DO however refuse to play someone who is a (known by previous battles) Jerk. thats more important than painted models, is the player that owns them.
I personally hate painting models. It's just a drag for me. But last week I finished painting my dark angel army and it was a very fulfilling feeling. I think that painting models is and important and necessary part of the game. My models look crappy because I suck at painting but it still looks better than flat grey.
I know painting isn't the most fun part of the game, but it makes the gaming experience much more enjoyable when you see that burst of color from the board.
I prefer to play painted armies, purely because it looks so much better and because I myself make the effort to paint my models - not that I find it a chore - but I would still never refuse a game because someone has unpainted models.
I don't hate it but I find it quite annoying that they have huge armies but can't be bothered to paint them. I mean, they don't have to be amazing but you still have the time to do it (after all, you could be painting them instead of playing) I have a campaign house rule that by the start of another half term, any unpainted models in the previous half term must be painted and that all models must be at least undercoated.
I have two people at my FLGS and they are both power gamers, who don't have anything painted. They have them either bare plastic or primed. And I wonder if the hobby is such a big thing to you that you would do anything to win. And don't even want to paint your own army?
I don’t understand, even after reading most of this, why people have such an issue with the activity of another that has no repercussions for them, most of my army is unpainted I don’t have the skill to paint them quickly to a standard that I’d be happy with, they are expensive and I carefully model and sculpt everyone to be unique.
I don’t need someone telling me I can or cant play a game because of how my army looks, I don't spend all my waking hours on them, rush the tits of them or just airbrush and then dip them (yeah so much better than unpainted)... In fact it generally urks me when people have a go at me for my half painted army when I look across the table I see their army which is either poorly executed or cheese...
I enjoy modeling first, playing second and painting last, the hobby contains all three and i can do them in what ever order i like. May be as i get better at painting that will change but i do not see my self ever being short sighted enough to give a damn if someone hasn't painted all there models.
Definitely. I always wonder as to the reasoning behind people asking for models to be at least primed. What exactly does a primed model accomplish over a bare model, especially if it's grey or black? It's still just one color. Locally this once came up, the answer was that it's difficult to see who has what if the model is unpainted. Eh. It's harder with a primed miniature in my books. If it's black, it becomes a total pain in the butt!
dracpanzer wrote: Although I can appreciate the difference when facing painted armies. I really get peeved when I have to field my own unpainted models. Drives me nuts, and I hold to the solemn truth that UNPAINTED MODELS DIE FIRST!!! I've greatly increased the model count of my Daemon army since the Codex, and its driving me nuts when I get in games while I still have to field unpainted models. Every game is followed by hours of painting, stupid compulsive issues....
I agree I hate doing it and especially when they are broken in some way ... I find it embarrassing. As many other people say, I prefer to play painted armies ( a friend of mine plays nids and most of the are just primed and nids have a rather basic colour scheme anyway IMO.
I like having a well painted army, even if my tactics suck. Sometimes I get an opponent that wants to take a look at my tank even though he just blew it up, because he's jealous. Might not win me games, but half of the hobby is painting and having people admire my models is RL VP's.
I have never played against a fully painted army at either FLGS I've been a part of. I wouldn't say it bothers me but I would like to play some games with fully painted armies on the board, mostly because I invest so much time into my own. That said I won't ever criticize or refuse a game because I understand its a lengthy process.
FuzzyLogik wrote: I prefer to play against a painted army, but I am quite understanding if someone has constraints that don't give them time to. For instance if I play against someone with an unpainted army and them a month or so later there has been no progress made on it, then it feels like they can't be bothered and an unpainted army does diminish the experience.
I work 45 hours a week but still have time to get my things painted, I don't have kids or anything though but there is an element of pride in having a nicely painted force on the table. If someone doesn't paint their models then i'll usualyl just make sure I win
So do you keep a log of people you've played and the painted state of their army that day so that you can look it up later and compare to a future date so that you can diminish your experience? I am honestly curious or do you just rely on the fallible human memory that tells you that you need to be annoyed playing a particular person because you are pretty sure that they haven't painted as much as you would have liked since you last saw them?
Sorry, but it just seems so silly and arbitrary to try and keep track of the painting progress of people you have played against in the past so that you can be offended by it at a later date. What a useless waste of mental and emotional energy.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
conker249 wrote: Waging war with painted minis against painted minis make me happy, I dont look down on anyone because they arnt painted. i have about 4000 points of Sisters of Battle painted fully, 2000 of Grey knights painted fully. But only like 800 points of chaos out of 8000 points i have. I never refuse a battle because their models arnt painted. I DO however refuse to play someone who is a (known by previous battles) Jerk. thats more important than painted models, is the player that owns them.
Well stated Conker. I have never found any link between being a painting nazi and being a challanging or even decent player, or person. If someone is a jerk I don't care how well painted their army is I won't waste my time playing them. Just isn't enough gaming time in the week to waste it on them. When I hit the table I want to play a fun game and an opponent who complains through the entire game sucks the fun right out of the experience for me whether they are complaining that I had the audacity to use unpainted minis or that my army is cheesy because it is stomping him into the ground.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I don't hate it but I find it quite annoying that they have huge armies but can't be bothered to paint them. I mean, they don't have to be amazing but you still have the time to do it (after all, you could be painting them instead of playing) I have a campaign house rule that by the start of another half term, any unpainted models in the previous half term must be painted and that all models must be at least undercoated.
Yeah brilliant there Smudge: Pay hundreds of dollars to buy minis to play a game, but don't bother to play because someone else things you should be painting instead. I have found in the past that all requiring painted models in a campaign meant is that it excluded many decent players who just didn't have the time to paint in their week.
Oh and for those who claim they have a "full" schedule, but can still get 500 points of minis painted each week AND play a bunch of games each week, you don't really KNOW what a full schedule actually is.
So do you keep a log of people you've played and the painted state of their army that day so that you can look it up later and compare to a future date so that you can diminish your experience? I am honestly curious or do you just rely on the fallible human memory that tells you that you need to be annoyed playing a particular person because you are pretty sure that they haven't painted as much as you would have liked since you last saw them?
Sorry, but it just seems so silly and arbitrary to try and keep track of the painting progress of people you have played against in the past so that you can be offended by it at a later date. What a useless waste of mental and emotional energy.
Skriker
Well, I personally don't care about painted armies or not.
I don't keep track either but for me I do notice that my opponent's stuff progresses in terms of painting wise.
Like his Wraith Lord was unprimed last time, and then it is this time.
Like you notice a bit by bit and by the end you'll see a fully painted army.
At least I noticed that when I play with the people at the FLGS
It's kinda obvious when you have a full grey army with nothing primed every game that you play with them too.
Not that it matters but you do notice though.
I don't have any issues with unpainted armies on their own. Where I do run into trouble is when I'm playing TFG AND he has an unpainted army it just ends up being an extra strike.
I don't care that much about the other Army being painted or not, if they are not I always slightly try to stimulate them into painting, My armies aren't 100% either but when I field my army 80% is always finished. (just a notice, my army pictures in the gallery are OLD as are my thread pictures, alot is painted now.)
Well, I personally don't care about painted armies or not.
I don't keep track either but for me I do notice that my opponent's stuff progresses in terms of painting wise.
Like his Wraith Lord was unprimed last time, and then it is this time.
Like you notice a bit by bit and by the end you'll see a fully painted army.
At least I noticed that when I play with the people at the FLGS
It's kinda obvious when you have a full grey army with nothing primed every game that you play with them too.
Not that it matters but you do notice though.
Thanks for the reasoned response...my comment was more tongue in cheek but I realize I completely missed putting any smilies in. Would have been understandable for you to just blast back.
I get you though...just seemed like you were paying closer attention based on what you wrote.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Citizen Luka wrote: Hearing players state 'I can't paint, I'm rubbish' is saddening. EVERYONE has to start somewhere.
Fair enough - you don't have time, or don't like painting, or are physically unable to (injury, no space etc).
But if you are not bothering because of a few unsatisfactory results - 'giving up' - you should keep trying!
While a gifted few paint amazingly well right off the bat, generally mini painting is a practiced and acquired skill. So the more you do it the better you get most definitely. Yeah I give the same caveats for being physically unable to paint. That is one that is not easy to get around, but if you actually have the time to spend painting, then practicing is the one thing that will make it better. Few of us have enough time in the day to paint as much as the heavy metal painters who get paid to paint minis all day, but a little practice goes a long way. Heck some of us have no time to paint most days at all.
Two things that will improve your abilities and give better results are good brushes bought at an art/craft store and not the brushes they sell at a typical hobby store and good paints. GW's paints are actually pretty decent. Two other good options are vallejo which has a massive color range available and paints from the Foundry in the UK which are designed for the really lazy detail painter. The foundry paints come in 3 bottle color palettes: Base Color, Shade Color and Hightlight Color. I couldn't tell you the last time I actually felt the need to mix any colors together I have so many options already available.
I would much prefer to play against a nicely painted army, but wouldn't refuse an unpainted or partly painted army.
However, I will not bend on WYSIWYG. if you're army isn't assembled then I've got no candy for you
I'd say this fella's summarising my views on the matter nicely. Sure, I like to paint, but I know how long it takes to finish a whole army, and I've no problem playing someone halfway through or even just starting such a project.
WYSIWYG, in relation to actually assembled models, means I probably won't play a unit that's just legs. If the unit's fully assembled, and it's made clear what it has, again, I've no problems with the other player using them if they're unpainted.
rigeld2 wrote: I'll allow proxies in most friendly games (to the extent that an empty base is an allowable proxy).
I'm not adverse to proxies within reason. Want to try a new predator weapon kit out before buying another model, no biggie. Want to try out a different heavy weapon kit out in a unit of devastators that are modeled with different weapons, no biggie. Want to try out a new unit before investing no problem either, though if they are empty bases writing with a paint pen on them what they each represent would be nice. Only have tactical marine minis, and want to use them to represent units of tacticals, assault marines, devastators, sternguard, etc all at the same time in the same army then no thanks.
There are proxies and then there are people who just don't want to buy their army. Former is fine for me as long as the army is otherwise for the most part WYSIWYG, but if you want to proxie your entire army you either need to get your other minis built or get into a different hobby. That said I have played against folks using 100% paper armies figs that are printed and based and approximate the proper height of the models, and were readily and easily identifiable as what they are and have also played folks who did that to bulk up their force so that we could play a much larger game than usual. In both cases I didn't have a problem at all. The games were still fun, and interesting. I am generally fine as long as I can Identify the units and the weapons they are using without much effort.
Sure - for example, until I decide on the loadout I want for my marines I'm using Genestealers for assault marines, termagants for tacticals, etc. with empty bases for filler/sergeants/etc.
Some models I've built but not attached arms. I only use this army in games with close friends - because it's proxied and bad in every way
rigeld2 wrote: I'll allow proxies in most friendly games (to the extent that an empty base is an allowable proxy).
I'm not adverse to proxies within reason. Want to try a new predator weapon kit out before buying another model, no biggie. Want to try out a different heavy weapon kit out in a unit of devastators that are modeled with different weapons, no biggie. Want to try out a new unit before investing no problem either, though if they are empty bases writing with a paint pen on them what they each represent would be nice. Only have tactical marine minis, and want to use them to represent units of tacticals, assault marines, devastators, sternguard, etc all at the same time in the same army then no thanks.
There are proxies and then there are people who just don't want to buy their army. Former is fine for me as long as the army is otherwise for the most part WYSIWYG, but if you want to proxie your entire army you either need to get your other minis built or get into a different hobby. That said I have played against folks using 100% paper armies figs that are printed and based and approximate the proper height of the models, and were readily and easily identifiable as what they are and have also played folks who did that to bulk up their force so that we could play a much larger game than usual. In both cases I didn't have a problem at all. The games were still fun, and interesting. I am generally fine as long as I can Identify the units and the weapons they are using without much effort.
Skriker
I guess the TL;DR version, all in all, is that as long as it's cleared beforehand, test proxies are alright.
If that's the case, then I'd probably agree. Though nobody wants to play against paper armies, everyone wants to test out an army list now and again, and sometimes you can help out a pal by letting him test out a unit or two.
Shame I had to sell those babies 
