Okay, I've been playing around with the idea of getting some grey knights models (The terminators mostly) and chaossifying them to follow Malal (Aka Malice, the chaos god of chaos/disorder).
Unfortunatley my gaming group seems to get quite butthurt at the idea, claiming that because the fluff says it's impossible that I should just stick with normal CSM.
Now, I don't mind other people hating on the idea, because I'm going to do it anyway and field them in both GK armies and CSM armies (I'm going to have to be quite clever with how that works), and my idea is that when painting it they'll be mostly two colours. One Black, the other Leadbelcher. My idea is that for every part I paint Leadbelcher, it's twin on the opposite side of the model will be black (Left hand black, right hand silver). I also plan to put minor mutations on them, and modify the weapons slightly.

What I would like to know is:

What do you think of this idea?
Do you have any suggestions?

Chaos Grey Knights is a dumb idea. Chaos using Grey Knight's rules, that's a better idea.

Chaos Grey Knights is an amazing idea~　

The inquisition has always tried to hide their defects, and hence told the world that there has been no Grey Knights that fell to Chaos.

Also, the rejects of Grey Knights somehow survived and formed a Legion against Grey Knights.

 Selym wrote:
Okay, I've been playing around with the idea of getting some grey knights models (The terminators mostly) and chaossifying them to follow Malal (Aka Malice, the chaos god of chaos/disorder).
Unfortunatley my gaming group seems to get quite butthurt at the idea, claiming that because the fluff says it's impossible that I should just stick with normal CSM.
Now, I don't mind other people hating on the idea, because I'm going to do it anyway and field them in both GK armies and CSM armies (I'm going to have to be quite clever with how that works), and my idea is that when painting it they'll be mostly two colours. One Black, the other Leadbelcher. My idea is that for every part I paint Leadbelcher, it's twin on the opposite side of the model will be black (Left hand black, right hand silver). I also plan to put minor mutations on them, and modify the weapons slightly.

What I would like to know is:

What do you think of this idea?
Do you have any suggestions?

Chaos Grey Knights?

I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

Because it's a fairly gakky idea in the opinions of others?

Well nobody complains about Space Marines starting their own Chapters and stuff.

So if a GK went rogue and the inquisition covered it up, then there would be no evidence of these guys as they are very numbered too.

Using the Grey Knights codex for a Malice based chaos army would be cool..... But Chaos Grey Knights is pretty much a slap in the face of fluff, like successor Space Wolves or Tau worshipping Khorn

2x210 wrote:
Using the Grey Knights codex for a Malice based chaos army would be cool..... But Chaos Grey Knights is pretty much a slap in the face of fluff, like successor Space Wolves or Tau worshipping Khorn

Well, considering how much Matt Ward os a slap in the face to the fluff and crunch of WH40k, I think this ranks pretty low on the scale of slappage.

2x210 wrote:
Using the Grey Knights codex for a Malice based chaos army would be cool..... But Chaos Grey Knights is pretty much a slap in the face of fluff, like successor Space Wolves or Tau worshipping Khorn

This. If your local scene is good with it, more power to you... but if you travel with this, be ready to reap the whirlwind.

 Makutsu wrote:
Well nobody complains about Space Marines starting their own Chapters and stuff.

So if a GK went rogue and the inquisition covered it up, then there would be no evidence of these guys as they are very numbered too.

Yeah, nobody complains because it's not impossible, or extremely opposed.

Also, the Grey Knights aren't "very numbered", they have around 1000 men, that's a full chapter.

GK falling to worship of Malal would be unfluffy because GK are already dedicated to Khorne.

Yeah just don't make them GKs or that they ever were GKs. Call them an Elite Sorcery Army that functions like GKs (uses their codex).

Counts As grey knights, sure.

Actually being Fallen Grey Knights. Not cool bro, not cool.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Actually being Fallen Grey Knights. Not cool bro, not cool.

And why not? Even if you ignore the canon instances of Khorne worship by the GK the whole "can't be corrupted no matter what" thing is just plain stupid. Fallen GK is no worse than any other army falling to Chaos.

Chaos Grey Knights are like the prototypical 40k 'i is creativ' special snowflake idea. It's been beaten to death so many times even Nurgle doesn't want that zombie.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Actually being Fallen Grey Knights. Not cool bro, not cool.

And why not? Even if you ignore the canon instances of Khorne worship by the GK the whole "can't be corrupted no matter what" thing is just plain stupid. Fallen GK is no worse than any other army falling to Chaos.

Because saying they worship Khorne is both trolling and factually incorrect, if you actually bother to understand the fluff. Plus their own fluff says no GK has ever fallen to Chaos.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Well nobody complains about Space Marines starting their own Chapters and stuff.

So if a GK went rogue and the inquisition covered it up, then there would be no evidence of these guys as they are very numbered too.

Yeah, nobody complains because it's not impossible, or extremely opposed.

Also, the Grey Knights aren't "very numbered", they have around 1000 men, that's a full chapter.

No, I meant that the Betrayers would be pretty numbered due to them killing all the ones that failed the GK test and survive to live another day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Actually being Fallen Grey Knights. Not cool bro, not cool.

And why not? Even if you ignore the canon instances of Khorne worship by the GK the whole "can't be corrupted no matter what" thing is just plain stupid. Fallen GK is no worse than any other army falling to Chaos.

Because saying they worship Khorne is both trolling and factually incorrect, if you actually bother to understand the fluff. Plus their own fluff says no GK has ever fallen to Chaos.

That's what the inquisition says to protect the order that they are sacred and can never be corrupted~
In the new Daemon Codex it says that a silver knight of shining armor in the Warp is now corrupt or has fallen, which sort of implies that there are Chaos GKs now~

 Grey Templar wrote:
Because saying they worship Khorne is both trolling and factually incorrect, if you actually bother to understand the fluff.

Sorry, but saying "we're not worshipping Khorne" as you go around slaughtering everything at Khorne's command doesn't make it any less Chaos worship.

Plus their own fluff says no GK has ever fallen to Chaos.

Of course it does. But their own fluff is in-universe propaganda, and of course the GK would never openly admit to losing members to Chaos. And since "absolutely impossible to fall to Chaos, never happened and never will" is an incredibly stupid idea I think I'm going to go with the more reasonable idea that GK are really resistant to Chaos but can and do get corrupted by it.

They do not follow Khorne's command, it's just 4-chan trolololing.

The Codex story specifies the knight is an Astartes, but it never gives any sort of indication as to his Chapter. The 'silvered adamantine' reference is to his will and not his armour. The Grey Knights are hardly the only chapter to carry weapons with runes upon them. There is nothing stopping this Astartes from being, say, a Black Templar.

I'm sorry, did I hear someone saying GK don't worship Khorne?



And they were fighting Khorne demons! I guess he wanted new play-things.

They are pretty fallen to me. You go with your Chaos GK idea and come up with some interesting fluff. I would love to read and see the models. They are your models and even if you wanted Pretty Marines, by the Gods, you had every right to build Pretty Marines.

/rant

 GreyHamster wrote:
The Codex story specifies the knight is an Astartes, but it never gives any sort of indication as to his Chapter. The 'silvered adamantine' reference is to his will and not his armour. The Grey Knights are hardly the only chapter to carry weapons with runes upon them. There is nothing stopping this Astartes from being, say, a Black Templar.

It doesn't specify Draigo, but he is one of the guys that are named out to be in the Warp for a long time and won't die.
Normally a normal SM being in the Warp would probably just get squished for being in there for that long.

Of course it doesn't specify but it can be somewhat implied and assumed that it is.
And if there's a slight possibility that Draigo is corrupted then other Grey Knights can be corrupted as well.

 Makutsu wrote:

 GreyHamster wrote:
The Codex story specifies the knight is an Astartes, but it never gives any sort of indication as to his Chapter. The 'silvered adamantine' reference is to his will and not his armour. The Grey Knights are hardly the only chapter to carry weapons with runes upon them. There is nothing stopping this Astartes from being, say, a Black Templar.

It doesn't specify Draigo, but he is one of the guys that are named out to be in the Warp for a long time and won't die.
Normally a normal SM being in the Warp would probably just get squished for being in there for that long.

Of course it doesn't specify but it can be somewhat implied and assumed that it is.
And if there's a slight possibility that Draigo is corrupted then other Grey Knights can be corrupted as well.

I never assumed it. It's only implied by those who want to imply it.

Also, Draigo is simply the result of loop holes and poor story telling, not the subject of who and what can be corrupted.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They do not follow Khorne's command, it's just 4-chan trolololing.

Yeah, it's just 4-chan instead of the obvious interpretation of the story that everyone who isn't a GK player saw as soon as they read it.

And yes, it's obvious. When you arrive on a Khorne-corrupted planet that has been turned into a giant "kill everything" arena for Khorne's amusement, slaughter the last remaining uncorrupted defenders, paint yourself with their blood, and slaughter everything else on the planet you are following the command of Khorne. Not even the most devout Khorne cultist could possibly find any fault in the GK's behavior in that incident.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

 GreyHamster wrote:
The Codex story specifies the knight is an Astartes, but it never gives any sort of indication as to his Chapter. The 'silvered adamantine' reference is to his will and not his armour. The Grey Knights are hardly the only chapter to carry weapons with runes upon them. There is nothing stopping this Astartes from being, say, a Black Templar.

It doesn't specify Draigo, but he is one of the guys that are named out to be in the Warp for a long time and won't die.
Normally a normal SM being in the Warp would probably just get squished for being in there for that long.

Of course it doesn't specify but it can be somewhat implied and assumed that it is.
And if there's a slight possibility that Draigo is corrupted then other Grey Knights can be corrupted as well.

I never assumed it. It's only implied by those who want to imply it.

Also, Draigo is simply the result of loop holes and poor story telling, not the subject of who and what can be corrupted.

Well, poor storytelling or not, if there's a chance for Renegade GKs then it's there.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They do not follow Khorne's command, it's just 4-chan trolololing.

Yeah, it's just 4-chan instead of the obvious interpretation of the story that everyone who isn't a GK player saw as soon as they read it.

And yes, it's obvious. When you arrive on a Khorne-corrupted planet that has been turned into a giant "kill everything" arena for Khorne's amusement, slaughter the last remaining uncorrupted defenders, paint yourself with their blood, and slaughter everything else on the planet you are following the command of Khorne. Not even the most devout Khorne cultist could possibly find any fault in the GK's behavior in that incident.

Poor writing can be easily interpreted as anything the reader wishes it to be. Wards slaughter of the Sisters is so poorly written, and comes out as something the World Eaters would do. It's supposed to represent the use of the Sisters blood as some form of protection, but comes out as a bloody slaughter.

I'd also like to note that anyone who fights and has a soul is a servant of the blood god, though they would not willingly admit it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Makutsu wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

 GreyHamster wrote:
The Codex story specifies the knight is an Astartes, but it never gives any sort of indication as to his Chapter. The 'silvered adamantine' reference is to his will and not his armour. The Grey Knights are hardly the only chapter to carry weapons with runes upon them. There is nothing stopping this Astartes from being, say, a Black Templar.

It doesn't specify Draigo, but he is one of the guys that are named out to be in the Warp for a long time and won't die.
Normally a normal SM being in the Warp would probably just get squished for being in there for that long.

Of course it doesn't specify but it can be somewhat implied and assumed that it is.
And if there's a slight possibility that Draigo is corrupted then other Grey Knights can be corrupted as well.

I never assumed it. It's only implied by those who want to imply it.

Also, Draigo is simply the result of loop holes and poor story telling, not the subject of who and what can be corrupted.

Well, poor storytelling or not, if there's a chance for Renegade GKs then it's there.

So there is none? Because I see none there.

2x210 wrote:
Using the Grey Knights codex for a Malice based chaos army would be cool..... But Chaos Grey Knights is pretty much a slap in the face of fluff, like successor Space Wolves or Tau worshipping Khorn

You mean like the one Tau that was empowered by Khorne? Aka, Firewarrior The videogame Novel?

So there is none? Because I see none there.

Uh, the silver knight going corrupt in the Warp?
It might not be Draigo, but if there is a chance that it is him then GKs can be corrupted.

 Makutsu wrote:

So there is none? Because I see none there.

Uh, the silver knight going corrupt in the Warp?
It might not be Draigo, but if there is a chance that it is him then GKs can be corrupted.

You do know mortal beings can enter the realm of Chaos? And there are other Space marines that are silver.

You've yet to give any hard evidence, and simply relying on one piece that doesn't even say it's a Grey Knight.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

So there is none? Because I see none there.

Uh, the silver knight going corrupt in the Warp?
It might not be Draigo, but if there is a chance that it is him then GKs can be corrupted.

You do know mortal beings can enter the realm of Chaos? And there are other Space marines that are silver.

You've yet to give any hard evidence, and simply relying on one piece that doesn't even say it's a Grey Knight.

But there's a chance, that's all that matters.
If there's a chance for it to happen it could.

 Peregrine wrote:


Of course it does. But their own fluff is in-universe propaganda, and of course the GK would never openly admit to losing members to Chaos. And since "absolutely impossible to fall to Chaos, never happened and never will" is an incredibly stupid idea I think I'm going to go with the more reasonable idea that GK are really resistant to Chaos but can and do get corrupted by it.

The Chaos Daemons Codex says the same. But I'm sure that's just Imperial Propaganda, right?

 Makutsu wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

So there is none? Because I see none there.

Uh, the silver knight going corrupt in the Warp?
It might not be Draigo, but if there is a chance that it is him then GKs can be corrupted.

You do know mortal beings can enter the realm of Chaos? And there are other Space marines that are silver.

You've yet to give any hard evidence, and simply relying on one piece that doesn't even say it's a Grey Knight.

But there's a chance, that's all that matters.
If there's a chance for it to happen it could.

How is their a chance?

Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

Then again, ignoring the arguments of the opposition in favour of simply cherry picking from a vague story shows the nature of the argument you hope to mount.

This thread is full of Fan Fiction.

 Mark1130 wrote:
This thread is full of Fan Fiction.

Anyone want to talk about my KAYOSS Emperor while we're at it?

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

Shame that anyone other than Inquisitors and high ranking officials who encounters the Knights are executed or mind wiped.

I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

And so do the Chaos Daemons. You know, the guys who would like nothing more than to corrupt them.

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

Because Inquisitors and high ranking officials exist. You don't think that the Imperium lies to even its highest officials?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
And so do the Chaos Daemons. You know, the guys who would like nothing more than to corrupt them.

But the whole game is still written from an Imperial perspective.

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

Because Inquisitors and high ranking officials exist. You don't think that the Imperium lies to even its highest officials?

I do know this.

However, what is the point? These individuals know the of the Imperium's current state, and are fairly connected to the actions of the Knights and other organisations within the Imperium. What would be the point in feeding them propaganda.

To the Op..

You bought the models, and you're painting the models. It's your hobby to do with as you please. If you want to run a unit of "fallen" grey Knights as counts as CSM termies, go with it. If you want to run a GK list using counts as CSM termies, to represent a "corrupted" GK warband, go for it. DO what makes you happy, and sod everyone else.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

Because Inquisitors and high ranking officials exist. You don't think that the Imperium lies to even its highest officials?

I do know this.

However, what is the point? These individuals know the of the Imperium's current state, and are fairly connected to the actions of the Knights and other organisations within the Imperium. What would be the point in feeding them propaganda.

Not all of them know everything. The High Lords of Terra may know it all, but few officials would know much about things outside of their jurisdiction. For example, it is possible for a SM chapter to know about the GK, but that does not mean they have access to the GK archives.
There may be an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus that once met a GK whilst checking a planet for heresy, but still not know what Daemons are.

Furthermore, it is faith that holds the IOM together. Even just knowing that no matter what the IOM does GK can be corrupted would be enough to cause doubt about humanity. And that is the kind of flaw a Daemon would need to gain purchase on somebody's soul. There's a fair chance that if a GK ever was corrupted, only he and those he killed would be allowed to retain the memory of such heresy, as it would damage the souls of all who know of it.

Selym wrote:Not all of them know everything. The High Lords of Terra may know it all, but few officials would know much about things outside of their jurisdiction. For example, it is possible for a SM chapter to know about the GK, but that does not mean they have access to the GK archives.
There may be an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus that once met a GK whilst checking a planet for heresy, but still not know what Daemons are.

Furthermore, it is faith that holds the IOM together. Even just knowing that no matter what the IOM does GK can be corrupted would be enough to cause doubt about humanity. And that is the kind of flaw a Daemon would need to gain purchase on somebody's soul. There's a fair chance that if a GK ever was corrupted, only he and those he killed would be allowed to retain the memory of such heresy, as it would damage the souls of all who know of it.

My point is that there have been no fluff incidences of a Grey Knight being corrupted, and when so much is directed against the GK being corrupted, it never being listed is like saying "Well Necrons have been corrupted by Chaos, it's just never been written."

Again, until solid evidence is offered, no Knight has been corrupted by Chaos, and it will probably be kept in such a state.

 blood reaper wrote:

Selym wrote:Not all of them know everything. The High Lords of Terra may know it all, but few officials would know much about things outside of their jurisdiction. For example, it is possible for a SM chapter to know about the GK, but that does not mean they have access to the GK archives.
There may be an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus that once met a GK whilst checking a planet for heresy, but still not know what Daemons are.

Furthermore, it is faith that holds the IOM together. Even just knowing that no matter what the IOM does GK can be corrupted would be enough to cause doubt about humanity. And that is the kind of flaw a Daemon would need to gain purchase on somebody's soul. There's a fair chance that if a GK ever was corrupted, only he and those he killed would be allowed to retain the memory of such heresy, as it would damage the souls of all who know of it.

My point is that there have been no fluff incidences of a Grey Knight being corrupted, and when so much is directed against the GK being corrupted, it never being listed is like saying "Well Necrons have been corrupted by Chaos, it's just never been written."

Again, until solid evidence is offered, no Knight has been corrupted by Chaos, and it will probably be kept in such a state.

ALl codex/ rulebooks are written from an IoM perspective though. Even the older elder codex was written as if an Imperial agent was documenting his time on a craftworld. Trust nothing you read!

 Peregrine wrote:

But the whole game is still written from an Imperial perspective.

Wait, the thoughts of the Blue Scribes are described from an Imperial perspecitve? Wut?

I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

A chapter already tried to use Chaos against Chaos, and they are known as the Relicators. The Grey Knights will never use Chaos artefacts as weaponry.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

Speaking of Inquisitors, my idea for the fluff is like this atm:

1) Radical Inquisitor who believes he can use chaos against itself experiments with warp energy.
2) Leads a small group of GK (Maybe 15 Termies) against a daemon horde.
3) Malal seizes the opportunity to gain power
4) Malal corrupts the Inquisitor (It's easy as he was already being tainted by warp energy, by his own choice).
5) The corrupt Inquisitor leads the GK into steadily more corrupted battlezones.
6) The GK are forced to use the Inquisitor's power to defeat a particularly powerful daemon.
7) Malal rushes into them, breaking their souls (It's and entire god, what else was going to happen)
8) The GK don't realise they're corrupted, and still try to fight for the IOM.
9) Whenever the IOM meets them, the see the corruption, and try to kill the GK, the GK defend themselves, believing the truth to be the other way around.
10) Still loyal(ish), killing the other gods, as per Malal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

A chapter already tried to use Chaos against Chaos, and they are known as the Relicators. The Grey Knights will never use Chaos artefacts as weaponry.

*They have daemon weapons. Cannon. In codex.

Yes the codex does have Daemon Weapons....

...available to radical Inquisitors, which is different to Grey Knights.

 blood reaper wrote:
Yes the codex does have Daemon Weapons....

...available to radical Inquisitors, which is different to Grey Knights.

Isn't the blade of Antwyr a daemon artefact?

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

*BLAM* HERESY!


But really, it's your army. Some may not like your backfluffy, but so what. I mean really,t his is the world that has the Doomrider in it...

Also, in a game that has not only Hello Kitty Marines (and 'Crons) but a million self-made chapters, you can take some creative license as you like.

And some people do. AND ITS AWESOME.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-4078-375_Eldar%20of%20Athel%20Loren.html

I'd love to see you make it and play it just to mess with them. Anyone who presumes to tell you what to do with your army is a collasal tit that needs to be trolled. Hard.

 Selym wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Yes the codex does have Daemon Weapons....

...available to radical Inquisitors, which is different to Grey Knights.

Isn't the blade of Antwyr a daemon artefact?

You have a point, but Crowe only uses it as a normal blade. He refuses to use it's daemonic powers which it offers him.

If Grey Knights can't fall to Chaos why did they need the blood of Sisters on their armor to not succumb to Khorne's rage?

Go for it even their lore supports the idea that they could potentially fall and will go to any lengths to prevent it from happening.

Anyone telling you otherwise is being a bit too overzealous of a fanboy.

They're cool models, use them however you wish. As long as they look Chaosified people will be cool with it. Just don't go out of your way to tell everyone your fluff for them.

There is a difference between being incorruptible and being immune. The Grey Knights are incorruptible, they are not immune.

A Grey Knight can still be killed by the Destroyer Plague, he can be overcome by the Bloodtide.

The Bloodtide does one of 2 things to you, it either makes you simply explode in a shower of gore or it causes your inner savage to be released. The first is what would happen to the Grey Knights, they could possibly have resisted it but they couldn't take that chance. So they covered themselves in the blood of those who had shown immunity to it.

It was simply insurance. The Bloodtide was such a threat they couldn't take the risk they would be destroyed by it and allow it to continue to spread.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is a difference between being incorruptible and being immune. The Grey Knights are incorruptible, they are not immune.

A Grey Knight can still be killed by the Destroyer Plague, he can be overcome by the Bloodtide.

The Bloodtide does one of 2 things to you, it either makes you simply explode in a shower of gore or it causes your inner savage to be released. The first is what would happen to the Grey Knights, they could possibly have resisted it but they couldn't take that chance. So they covered themselves in the blood of those who had shown immunity to it.

It was simply insurance. The Bloodtide was such a threat they couldn't take the risk they would be destroyed by it and allow it to continue to spread.

How do you know that they would explode, hmm? Did you write the fluff for them? If it could make them "release their inner savage." I think that would make for a very badass group of Chaos GK.

Because thats what the Bloodtide does if it gets you, as per the fluff that existed long before Mat Ward worked for GW. Now Grey Knights would be resistant and could potentially do the same thing the Sisters did, but its not certain.

From wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is a difference between being incorruptible and being immune. The Grey Knights are incorruptible, they are not immune.

A Grey Knight can still be killed by the Destroyer Plague, he can be overcome by the Bloodtide.

The Bloodtide does one of 2 things to you, it either makes you simply explode in a shower of gore or it causes your inner savage to be released. The first is what would happen to the Grey Knights, they could possibly have resisted it but they couldn't take that chance. So they covered themselves in the blood of those who had shown immunity to it.

It was simply insurance. The Bloodtide was such a threat they couldn't take the risk they would be destroyed by it and allow it to continue to spread.

How do you know that they would explode, hmm? Did you write the fluff for them? If it could make them "release their inner savage." I think that would make for a very badass group of Chaos GK.

We "know" because the other result would fly in the face of all Grey Knight fluff to this point. They don't become corrupted. That's their schtick, just as Tyranids eat everything and Tau diplomacy everything. It's the very definition of a Grey Knight.

This situation sounds like my dog and her food. She COULD run over and eat it right when I put it in the bowl, or she could wonder off and ignore it. But she won't ignore it. She could, but she won't. It just won't happen.

It is all in a name.

Think of the Word Bearers.

They do not like being upstaged in their devotion by unimaginative dogs of the Emperor.

The black knights are then created to face the heresy that is the grey knights.

Only the best psionic cultists are elevated with sufficient demonic possession and outfitted with mind numbing runed armor necessary to combat the emperor devout.

What better than to use blasphemed weapons of the enemy against them? Symbolic of how the Chaplains converted their weapons when they found the true gods.

To take the darkest lore, the "word" to the enemy in their chestplate and preach to them the greatness of chaos, how can they not question what they do?

Where the portents take them, the black knights will answer the call. They will be ready for the unworthy.

Yadda, yadda... it works, do not harass, it will work if you think of the fluff and not try to cheese into making it two armies COMMIT to the path: you will be respected.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Because thats what the Bloodtide does if it gets you, as per the fluff that existed long before Mat Ward worked for GW. Now Grey Knights would be resistant and could potentially do the same thing the Sisters did, but its not certain.

So how is "releasing your inner savage" NOT corruption?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
We "know" because the other result would fly in the face of all Grey Knight fluff to this point. They don't become corrupted. That's their schtick, just as Tyranids eat everything and Tau diplomacy everything. It's the very definition of a Grey Knight.

Which is why the elite GK are even more incorruptible than the standard ones. If even basic GK are 100% impossible to corrupt then what does that make Purifiers, 200% impossible to corrupt?

As I pointed out, that isn't the result it would have on a GK. The result they would suffer is just exploding into bloody chunks.

 Grey Templar wrote:
As I pointed out, that isn't the result it would have on a GK. The result they would suffer is just exploding into bloody chunks.

Well, if you assume that it was necessary to kill the SoB instead of a bunch of Khorne cultists slaughtering everything in sight, starting with the pure and innocent faithful servants of the Emperor. Which is a pretty bad assumption, since everything about the story is the textbook definition of "unleashing your inner savage".

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

Lets put it this way. I COULD say that I collect a force of Emperor's Childrens led by Fulgrim himself but they have been redeemed and accepted into the Imperium ya it is my fluff but I better be prepared to catch flak for it.


Now If I keep that story to myself will people care? No. If I develop a more user friendly backstory and thats what I tell people it can help things move smoothly.




So OP

No Chaos Grey Knights. Feel free to use Grey Knight rules to make up a Chaos force and make fluff around them being particularly chosen by the Chaos Gods or something.

 Selym wrote:

What do you think of this idea?
Do you have any suggestions?

To answer the questions:

Don't like it.
Don't do it.

That being said, the visuals and play style sound awesome, just don't create fluff that sounds pure troll to so many. To me, if I came across you at a tourney, with that expressed fluff, I'd think of you as a trolling jerk who's just trying to get a rise out of people by violating the lore of their favorite universe.

However, using the army as described in tandem with the rules, sounds cool.

@everyone defending his right to do it anyway (which he has), he did ask

What do you think of this idea? Do you have any suggestions?

. Your being bent out of shape over us answering the question given is kinda odd and somewhat hypocritical. So many people play 40k because they enjoy the lore and fluff. To find people protective of a Universe while dealing with the primary form of interacting with that universe really shouldn't strike you as odd.

It's funny watching people getting angsty cause their special snowflakes are melting...

To the OP: feel free to do it. It's your money and your models. BUT, the level of debate in this thread should give you some idea of the opposition to the idea you might face. Be prepared to have a DAMN good explanation.

To everyone else: ignoring all information but the Codexes, exactly how corruptible Grey Knights are in general, and have been so far, is made clear if you take all the info in.

In the GK Codex it's stated that their psychic essence, unlike most, is "anathema" to Daemons. That's a direct quote use of the word anathema - meaning Daemons not only can't possess, control or attack a Grey Knight through warp-based means (physically is another matter), they would in fact much prefer to get far far away from them.

In the Daemons Codex, under the Changeling's short story, it's stated that no Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos *yet*. The seed of what might possibly turn into some semblance of something slightly resembling something else that could be coming close to doubt is planted in the short story, but if that seed takes root and causes said corruption is a future event and therefore not known.
This gives you two possibilities, either of which is your choice to make as the reader - either this story shows that a Grey Knight can be corrupted after all and it's just waiting to happen, or they still cannot and this will be just another failed attempt.
However you *can't* try to enforce the view of whether Grey Knights can or can't be corrupted in this way as the story leaves it open for either possibility.

Hetelic wrote:
It's funny watching people getting angsty cause their special snowflakes are melting...

So, instead of forming an argument against points listed against your argument, you've instead resorted to making a semi-snide comment?

The imperial propaganda doesn't say no grey knight has fallen to chaos. It say's no grey knight exists. You know, cause they are secret.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They do not follow Khorne's command, it's just 4-chan trolololing.

Yeah, it's just 4-chan instead of the obvious interpretation of the story that everyone who isn't a GK player saw as soon as they read it.

And yes, it's obvious. When you arrive on a Khorne-corrupted planet that has been turned into a giant "kill everything" arena for Khorne's amusement, slaughter the last remaining uncorrupted defenders, paint yourself with their blood, and slaughter everything else on the planet you are following the command of Khorne. Not even the most devout Khorne cultist could possibly find any fault in the GK's behavior in that incident.

And I thought Khorne hated sorcery. Why would he want an army composed entirely of psychic marines?

 Super Ready wrote:
To the OP: feel free to do it. It's your money and your models. BUT, the level of debate in this thread should give you some idea of the opposition to the idea you might face. Be prepared to have a DAMN good explanation.

To everyone else: ignoring all information but the Codexes, exactly how corruptible Grey Knights are in general, and have been so far, is made clear if you take all the info in.

In the GK Codex it's stated that their psychic essence, unlike most, is "anathema" to Daemons. That's a direct quote use of the word anathema - meaning Daemons not only can't possess, control or attack a Grey Knight through warp-based means (physically is another matter), they would in fact much prefer to get far far away from them.

In the Daemons Codex, under the Changeling's short story, it's stated that no Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos *yet*. The seed of what might possibly turn into some semblance of something slightly resembling something else that could be coming close to doubt is planted in the short story, but if that seed takes root and causes said corruption is a future event and therefore not known.
This gives you two possibilities, either of which is your choice to make as the reader - either this story shows that a Grey Knight can be corrupted after all and it's just waiting to happen, or they still cannot and this will be just another failed attempt.
However you *can't* try to enforce the view of whether Grey Knights can or can't be corrupted in this way as the story leaves it open for either possibility.

Or (C) Grey Knights cannot be corrupted, but as we cannot state that about every knight that will ever exist, we can only say that, as no Knight has ever fallen, they are basically incorruptible.

Hetelic wrote:
It's funny watching people getting angsty cause their special snowflakes are melting...

And exalted for saying exaclty what I was going to, saving me the trouble.

Why they get their own codex is beyond me really. Their fluff is about as bad as their ingame rules.

If you were to say "Oh, this Space Marine Captain in my army is actually the emperor himself and the near-corpse on the throne is just a decoy" a lot of your opponents would either be calling BS or otherwise just think it in their heads. Anything is theoretically possible in the 40k world, as some have pointed out, because our "sources" are biased. At the same time, if some guy wants to tell me that he's controlling Leman Russ returned from the warp, I'm gonna think that's pretty lame.

As has been pointed out, even if some people didn't understand it, there is -nothing- which says that GK have fallen to chaos. There isn't even a story which says it's possible - there is a story which, if it is a Grey Knight, means that it's possible, but that is not the same thing. On the other hand, there is tonnes of really clear info saying it's not possible.

Personally to the OP, do whatever you want. It's your army, and you don't want to settle for an army you're not passionate about and live in regret because you got talked out of making your dream army. But just remember that your army violates the fluff, and to some people that will seem a little stupid.

Do it and make it look cool.
Don't bother with fluff because it isn't ever going to work. This forum has seen dozens of arguments from people trying to make it work. Don't bother just do it and make it look cool.

 Selym wrote:

What I would like to know is:

What do you think of this idea?
Do you have any suggestions?

I think the idea sounds fun. Certainly puts your army in a new spot light, for better or for worse. I've always liked the GK models, though I'm a IG player. There were times when I considered getting some GK models and say that they were replacement Ogryns or Psykers. The only thing stopping me from doing that is money.

As for the whole 'GK can't be corruptible/immune to corruption' argument, given time everything can be corrupted. An example would be the Primarchs. They were the Emprah's sons and yet half of them fell to Chaos, one of them being the Emp's favorite child. Another example would be the SoB where, IIRC, only one Sister has fallen to Chaos.

For suggestions, I can only think of a couple regarding their humble beginning.
1) Say that someone from the IoM wanted more GKs available as a thousand can only do so much against so many Chaos incursions. During the creation of these GKs Malal noticed this and decided to make a small-'21st Founding' incident of his own. Placing his own influences into key parts of the process he gains new pawns.

2) Say that some Chaos bigshot saw these powerful silver Astrates and thought 'Those guys are the gak. How awesome would it be if I had something like that for me?' So after the battle was over, said bigshot (who we will call Herp) somehow drags a GK body with him to experiment on. After many long years, Herp has everything he needs to know/needs to have to make his own GKs and gets cracking. With the help of some CSMs he met along the way (which turns out to be the Sons of Malice), the fruits of his long, hard and chaotic labor come to bear with plenty of powerful psyker Space Marines coming around (The details of this process I can't come up with right now). So after a certain number of these Astrates are created the Sons of Malice marines there to help kill Herp and take these guys under their wing, teaching them the ways of Malal. And in true Malal fashion these Malal GKs kill their mentor marines cause they be full of Chaos stuffing.

3) If you want the 'GKs falling to Malal' bit then how about using Warp travel as one means of corrupting them? I don't remember what the names are for those unexplored parts of space where the ships can't see the light of the Astronomican. But during a patrol/exploration mission/something involving a ship in that area they go into Warp Drive (haha...I'm sorry for a bad joke.) they are trapped by Malal where he screws with them for, in the ship's time, a millennia while in real time it was like a week or something. After 365,242 days of Malal singing lullabies and playing his drum like a violin (which those GKs still don't understand how that happens), all the time speaking how the Emprah had forsaken them in the Warp with Malal, even the hardest believers would falter.

These are just suggestions that you asked for, so feel free to do with whatever you want with it. Hope this helps with the fluffy part of your army.

To the OP

I would say go for it. Fluff is a guide not sacred. It is broken all the time by writers and GW. The reason the story takes place over thousands of years and is often ambiguous
Is to allow imaginative interpretation. The creation of your own fluff and twists to the grand story are at the core of what makes the 40K universe appealing to people with imagination.

Anything in 40K can be used as a tool of Chaos. Either through corruption of the soul or masterful trickery.

I would suggest using the GK codex, keep the models WYSIWYG with gear, just paint and convert them (mutations etc.). Basically don’t confuse your opponent. It will also be a good idea to come up with a story. Did Chaos use the GK’s pride to trick them like Horus? Has the Inquisition covered their existence up? Were they worn down by being trapped in the warp for a thousand years?...

I look forward to seeing your work

Cheers Vim

in order to avoid conflict i would say use the GK codex and maybe even the models (with all the Aegis crap and iconography shaved off) - but dont say they are "Fallen GK" - you're just goading the people who take the fluff seriously.

other than the "Chaos GK" i really lie the idea. the paint scheme could look really coole and i'm interested to see what you do to convert the GK weapons.

Using the GK codex gives you some nice things as (as far as i understand) Malal basically waged war on the other gods - so it makes snese his devout followers would have psyker powers and anti-daemon weapons.
The Codex also has lots of different cc weapon optiosn so you avoid units all looking the same with everyone having the same loadout.

I personally love GK the supers of the Adaptes Astaratus who can withstand all demonic threats known to man. I imagine them wading slaughtering thousands of demons in the name of the Ordo Malleus. But to make them worship Chaos

Its like replacing the hero of a movie with a villian.

Superman2

gnoise wrote:For suggestions, I can only think of a couple regarding their humble beginning.
1) Say that someone from the IoM wanted more GKs available as a thousand can only do so much against so many Chaos incursions. During the creation of these GKs Malal noticed this and decided to make a small-'21st Founding' incident of his own. Placing his own influences into key parts of the process he gains new pawns.

2) Say that some Chaos bigshot saw these powerful silver Astrates and thought 'Those guys are the gak. How awesome would it be if I had something like that for me?' So after the battle was over, said bigshot (who we will call Herp) somehow drags a GK body with him to experiment on. After many long years, Herp has everything he needs to know/needs to have to make his own GKs and gets cracking. With the help of some CSMs he met along the way (which turns out to be the Sons of Malice), the fruits of his long, hard and chaotic labor come to bear with plenty of powerful psyker Space Marines coming around (The details of this process I can't come up with right now). So after a certain number of these Astrates are created the Sons of Malice marines there to help kill Herp and take these guys under their wing, teaching them the ways of Malal. And in true Malal fashion these Malal GKs kill their mentor marines cause they be full of Chaos stuffing.

3) If you want the 'GKs falling to Malal' bit then how about using Warp travel as one means of corrupting them? I don't remember what the names are for those unexplored parts of space where the ships can't see the light of the Astronomican. But during a patrol/exploration mission/something involving a ship in that area they go into Warp Drive (haha...I'm sorry for a bad joke.) they are trapped by Malal where he screws with them for, in the ship's time, a millennia while in real time it was like a week or something. After 365,242 days of Malal singing lullabies and playing his drum like a violin (which those GKs still don't understand how that happens), all the time speaking how the Emprah had forsaken them in the Warp with Malal, even the hardest believers would falter.

These are just suggestions that you asked for, so feel free to do with whatever you want with it. Hope this helps with the fluffy part of your army.

These sound like fun ideas to play with
In my head I had an outline for a backstory in which a small band of GK and IG, led by a radical Inquisitor (who is secretly corrupted by Malal) are deployed around the Eye of Terror. They then hear that a powerful artifact is being smuggled in to the eye for unknown reasons. They follow the transport towards a daemon world, [now using your 3rd idea] but get sucked into actual warpspace by accident. The spend nearly 5,000 years of their own time in there, but in realspace it's only about three days. During this time, Malal sows the seeds of corruption, turning their spaceship into a daemon infested hellhole, turning the humans insane, and forcing the GK to use every last bit of mental strength they have to stay alive (and subsequently puncturing holes in their souls). By the time they return to reality, they realise the time disparity, and continue their mission.
The land on the planet, and start searching. But [somehow] a Daemon Primarch is being summoned into reality (I'm thinking Angron). They are to few to work effectivley, but decide to join their psychic might with the Inquisitor (who nobody notices should be dead). As their minds link to the Inquisitor's, Malal rushes into them, destroying their final defences as they accidentally let him in, believing they were about to receive support from the Inquisitor.

Malal helps them to kick the Daemon Primarch back into the warp (as is his job), and then leads the newly corrupted GK to further acts of insanity.

vim_the_good wrote:To the OP

I would say go for it. Fluff is a guide not sacred. It is broken all the time by writers and GW. The reason the story takes place over thousands of years and is often ambiguous
Is to allow imaginative interpretation. The creation of your own fluff and twists to the grand story are at the core of what makes the 40K universe appealing to people with imagination.

Anything in 40K can be used as a tool of Chaos. Either through corruption of the soul or masterful trickery.

I would suggest using the GK codex, keep the models WYSIWYG with gear, just paint and convert them (mutations etc.). Basically don’t confuse your opponent. It will also be a good idea to come up with a story. Did Chaos use the GK’s pride to trick them like Horus? Has the Inquisition covered their existence up? Were they worn down by being trapped in the warp for a thousand years?...

I look forward to seeing your work

Cheers Vim

It's good to see people who share my view
Basic idea of the army above

Of course GK can (and are) corrupted to a alrge degree by Chaos / Xenos

Fielding inquisitors with daemon weapons / xenos artifacts / xenos monkeys. Fielding Castellan Crowe with a daemon weapon (don't care if he doesn't activate it, he could just use a blunt sword then)
Allying with anything else than Imperium. And they do that on a very regular basis with Necrons, even though they were buddy-buddy with what looked dangerously close to Chaos Gods (C'tan)
Having their main wargear pieces that are (were) completely useless against daemons :
-rending psycannons against Inv saves, yay !
-power weapons against Inv saves (and Force weapons when daemons were still all EW)

And last but not least (tops even) is that their grand master spent centuries in the Warp, they're perfectly happy with taking him back, no questions asked (real inquisitors would have burned him first, just in case).
Oh, and he's S5 T5 because ..... because he's worth it ? (by L'OREAL)

Yeah, they are corrupted, even without slaughtering battle sisters and bathing in their blood


To the first question and goal of the topic :
Go for it, even though you should be ashamed to even be playing GK to start with :p
As long as your miniatures can easily be identified from across the table, convert & paint them as you wish

"Ironically (or appropriately depending on how you look at it) one of the best ways to represent Malal dedicated Chaos Marines would be to use the Grey Knights codex. Think about it; elite marine units with sick powers and a plethora of daemon killing hardware, small army sizes, radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitors with daemonblades and daemonhosts and more. Take a Draigo-Paladin spam list and use 'counts as' Chaos terminators for a nasty Chaos smashing elite warband of Malal followers and lolstomp your opponents into the ground.
Alternatively you can use C:CSM if you aren't a cheesed-out 12 year old or Daemonhunters vet."

I think that bit from 1d4chan about sums it up

2x210 wrote:
"Ironically (or appropriately depending on how you look at it) one of the best ways to represent Malal dedicated Chaos Marines would be to use the Grey Knights codex. Think about it; elite marine units with sick powers and a plethora of daemon killing hardware, small army sizes, radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitors with daemonblades and daemonhosts and more. Take a Draigo-Paladin spam list and use 'counts as' Chaos terminators for a nasty Chaos smashing elite warband of Malal followers and lolstomp your opponents into the ground.
Alternatively you can use C:CSM if you aren't a cheesed-out 12 year old or Daemonhunters vet."

I think that bit from 1d4chan about sums it up

It does a bit. However, if you're feeling manly you can try to limit the cheese (No Draigo, no Dreadknight, No psyfleman dreds, no more than 1 stormraven if any...).

 Selym wrote:
It does a bit. However, if you're feeling manly you can try to limit the cheese (No Draigo, no Dreadknight, No psyfleman dreds, no more than 1 stormraven if any...).

Well of course no Draigo in a Malal army, he's polishing Slaanesh's scepter as we speak.

You know, this thread reminds me of why I'm selling my armies. This game was supposed to be about creative use of models and fluff, yet every idea will be met with the cries of "purists" who have BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY BY THE AUTHORS THEMSELVES THAT THE FLUFF THEY ARE CLINGING TO IS MISINFORMATION! = my head

I've played nerd games all my life and I've never seen this kind of reaction. What is it about 40k that makes it such a magnet for poorly socialized OCD victims?

 Selym wrote:

2x210 wrote:
Using the Grey Knights codex for a Malice based chaos army would be cool..... But Chaos Grey Knights is pretty much a slap in the face of fluff, like successor Space Wolves or Tau worshipping Khorn

Well, considering how much Matt Ward os a slap in the face to the fluff and crunch of WH40k, I think this ranks pretty low on the scale of slappage.

Just because he wrote a few slightly left-field fluff variations doesn't give you an excuse to make something that really does go completely against all canon ever written for the GK.

If you want to model and paint Chaos Grey Knight, knock yourself out man! They're your models.

To me, it's no different than female space marines and MLP Space Marines. Have fun!

This^

[quote=Boggy Man 522754 5541555 f3763b47b5b34a5d4fe662cc8909d274.jpg

I've played nerd games all my life and I've never seen this kind of reaction. What is it about 40k that makes it such a magnet for poorly socialized OCD victims?

I get quite upset when people fold maps wrong in front of me, or hold a phone upside down even if the screen rotates to match.

In all seriousness, something done to a clear vision and not for some advantage tends to get the OCD people to be quiet.
Trying to be Grey Knights AND some Chaos version is a bit hard to do unless you go insane with magnets (even then it is iffy).

I am old enough now that I really do not care if I have someone's approval.
I have done WYSIWYG out of respect to my opponent, if it is "Hello Kitty" with "Barney the Dinosaur" allies I am not terribly sorry I offend.
(Losing or winning is a win-win however)

So long as Selym uses the actual Codex to play his army (GKs or CSM) and he respects the fluff, as he's doing now, it should be good. It's not like Selym is saying that all GKs are weaklings, just that some unlucky sods were in the wrong place at the wrong time and the Uncorruptible have been corrupted, making this Grimdark universe even more Grimdark.
My opinion about WH40K, you can never have enough Grimdark.

Magnets=Magic=Friendship

It does kind of beg the question - If GK coule be made immune to any kind of corruption - then why not spread that secret around the rest of the IoM and forever rid the Imperium of the taint of Chaos? Elinate the risk of ANYONE falling to chaos and it will just burn itself out eventually.

 Praxiss wrote:
It does kind of beg the question - If GK coule be made immune to any kind of corruption - then why not spread that secret around the rest of the IoM and forever rid the Imperium of the taint of Chaos? Elinate the risk of ANYONE falling to chaos and it will just burn itself out eventually.

Because the selection process for the Grey Knights is nigh on impossible to pass. You have to be a psyker and you've got to live through the training.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
It does kind of beg the question - If GK coule be made immune to any kind of corruption - then why not spread that secret around the rest of the IoM and forever rid the Imperium of the taint of Chaos? Elinate the risk of ANYONE falling to chaos and it will just burn itself out eventually.

Because the selection process for the Grey Knights is nigh on impossible to pass. You have to be a psyker and you've got to live through the training.

That, and Aegis PA probably costs as much to make as a Baneblade, and those aren't exactly common.

 Selym wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
It does kind of beg the question - If GK coule be made immune to any kind of corruption - then why not spread that secret around the rest of the IoM and forever rid the Imperium of the taint of Chaos? Elinate the risk of ANYONE falling to chaos and it will just burn itself out eventually.

Because the selection process for the Grey Knights is nigh on impossible to pass. You have to be a psyker and you've got to live through the training.

That, and Aegis PA probably costs as much to make as a Baneblade, and those aren't exactly common.

So they have special anti-daemon power armour as well? (honest question - i've never read any of their fluff). So what if, for example, a single sqaud was lost on a Daemon world - their Aegis armour rendered inactive - no support or resupply possible - completely cut off...... and they were set upon by Tzeentch with the express idea of turngin them through desperation and torture.....still woudl never happen?

 Praxiss wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
It does kind of beg the question - If GK coule be made immune to any kind of corruption - then why not spread that secret around the rest of the IoM and forever rid the Imperium of the taint of Chaos? Elinate the risk of ANYONE falling to chaos and it will just burn itself out eventually.

Because the selection process for the Grey Knights is nigh on impossible to pass. You have to be a psyker and you've got to live through the training.

That, and Aegis PA probably costs as much to make as a Baneblade, and those aren't exactly common.

So they have special anti-daemon power armour as well? (honest question - i've never read any of their fluff). So what if, for example, a single sqaud was lost on a Daemon world - their Aegis armour rendered inactive - no support or resupply possible - completely cut off...... and they were set upon by Tzeentch with the express idea of turngin them through desperation and torture.....still woudl never happen?

The thing with GK fanatics is that they refuse to accept that anything could ever happen to a GK. I agree with you here. They have anti-daemon armour for a reason, it's because no matter how tough your soul is, there is always a tougher daemon (or god), and the aegis (as it's called) is a giant "feth off" sign to most daemons. But, when it's broken, the GK have less protection.

Grey Knights = pre-Heresy Thoundsand Sons. I say go for it.

SJ

If you treasure your sanity or just have a little bit of taste you are better off not reading the GK fluff. Elementary school fan fiction is better than that stuff.

But as others have already written, it's your money, your figures and your time. You could model them ala angry marines and I would still applaud it with the result looks good. I have even thought about buying a box and use them with my Alpha legion

 Selym wrote:

The thing with GK fanatics is that they refuse to accept that anything could ever happen to a GK. I agree with you here. They have anti-daemon armour for a reason, it's because no matter how tough your soul is, there is always a tougher daemon (or god), and the aegis (as it's called) is a giant "feth off" sign to most daemons. But, when it's broken, the GK have less protection.

As has already been said numerous times throughout this thread but I think a few of you have not understood, they are not immune to daemonic power, which is why they wear aegis armour and covered themselves in blood etc. However, that's not the same as saying they could be possessed by daemons or become disloyal to the emperor.

Being affected by daemons can go one of two ways: (A) painful suffering and death, or (B) daemonic taint and conversion to Chaos.

The point being made is that (B) can never happen - Grey Knights can never convert to Chaos or be possessed. But they can be made to suffer and die, and that is why they still need protection from the daemonic. The fact they protect themselves against daemons isn't proof they can be possessed, it's proof they can be killed, which no-one is arguing with.

Hopefully you get it now.

EDIT: Again, I'm all for you creating whatever army you want, but I wouldn't go to too much effort trying to make the fluff make sense, coz it won't.

In other terms:

Demon shoots warp power at GK, GK armor helps, whereas normal PA is useless.

Demon tries to possess GK, fails because of what the GK is, no matter if he's naked or wearing 10 tons of Aegis armors.

On the other hand - the Imperium is the ultiate Big Brother state.

if a GK had actually turned - do you think the inquisition would allow word of it to get out? They'd kill the rest of the sqaud and everyone else on that planet first.

I actually quite like the thought of a GK unit falling to chaos and the Inquisition basically plugging their ears and going "la la la"



"Squad Ghalic? Gone?!...no, no, no...they're......just out, trust me. nothgin to worry abotu at all. <note to self - delete squad Ghalic from all records>"

 Praxiss wrote:
On the other hand - the Imperium is the ultiate Big Brother state.

if a GK had actually turned - do you think the inquisition would allow word of it to get out? They'd kill the rest of the sqaud and everyone else on that planet first.

I actually quite like the thought of a GK unit falling to chaos and the Inquisition basically plugging their ears and going "la la la"



"Squad Ghalic? Gone?!...no, no, no...they're......just out, trust me. nothgin to worry abotu at all. <note to self - delete squad Ghalic from all records>"

They allready deny the existence of greyknight's anyway.

But yes, so far there is only one grey knight in the whole universe, that has had the slightest doubt, and that is brother brutus, who is mentioned in the new chaos daemons codex as having doubt's over killing billions of civillians to root out one daemon, the changeling. Changling is all happy about this because it plant's the first and only seed of doubt in a grey knight mind, the first step to corruption. As such, the only real grounding in the fluff for a chaos grey knight's army, is a Tzeentch chaos grey knight army, lead by brother-sorceror Brutus, and allied with the changling from chaos daemons

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

This. feth the haters, they're taking this fictional universe far too seriously.

 Praxiss wrote:
On the other hand - the Imperium is the ultiate Big Brother state.

if a GK had actually turned - do you think the inquisition would allow word of it to get out? They'd kill the rest of the sqaud and everyone else on that planet first.

I actually quite like the thought of a GK unit falling to chaos and the Inquisition basically plugging their ears and going "la la la"

"Squad Ghalic? Gone?!...no, no, no...they're......just out, trust me. nothgin to worry abotu at all. <note to self - delete squad Ghalic from all records>"

Ultimately, if it gets your imagination excited and gives you more fun out of your army, make up any story you like. I think there's intentionally enough mystery in the 40k universe to let people bend and stretch what we've been told. But at the same time, it is on par with saying that you're fielding the Emperor, or a Primarch, and that the Inquisition and all its information is just a big cover up. Not impossible, most will think it's kinda stupid, but if it makes you happy then go for it.

I don't see why people get so angry about Chaos Grey Knights... The way the inquisition acts, it seems they're already being controlled by people that are possessed by demons anyways. It's not that outlandish of an idea, after all half of the imperium's forces fell to chaos anyways during the Horus Heresy, including the Emperor's favorite son Horus.

Justicar Alaric kinda covers all of this. He can be used by Chaos, he can be turned from the path he wanted to walk...

...but even after being stranded, buck naked and alone, in the Eye of Terror for a long long time...

He comes out taint free and actually seems to be less violent and more compassionate than most Grey Knights and certainly a kinder gentler man than before.

So while he may have served Khorne unwittingly, he clearly did not turn from the Emperor or fall to chaos. No GK has ever fallen. Fluff, GW History, earlier additions, codices, etc. all back this up. You can do a fallen GK army, but it makes about as much sense as a Hive Fleet on a mission of mercy to protect an agri Imperial Planet and preserve it for future human generations. You CAN make it work, but a vast majority won't buy it on principal alone.

How about, instead of doing corrupted grey knights, you make your own chapter, using the grey knights models, and corrupt them? The reason in, no Grey Knights can be corrupted. Simple as that. You have a nice looking army, and you don't break any fluff.

Chaos Grey Knights id say no. But using the Grey Knight Codex to represent followers of Malal would be great, just come up with your own fluff and units that use the GK rules. Malal is against pretty much everything and especially hates the other Ruinous Powers, so anti-chaos/daemons warriors makes sense for him.

i dont like the idea from a modeling perspective. grey knights dont look chaosy at all, not even a bit. It's going to be alot of work to convert them. what are you planning to do to make this work visually? "minor mutation and slight weapon mods" sounds like a cop out to me. youre going to have to do alot more than that to convince people these are awesome chaos grey knights.

if your conversions were cool enough i dont think anyone would give you any trouble.

Go with your original idea - GK codex and model them as followers of Malal.

Just user Chaos terminators as the models.
You should be able to pick up GK weapons on bitz sites if you need to.

 Lobukia wrote:
Justicar Alaric kinda covers all of this. He can be used by Chaos, he can be turned from the path he wanted to walk...

...but even after being stranded, buck naked and alone, in the Eye of Terror for a long long time...

He comes out taint free and actually seems to be less violent and more compassionate than most Grey Knights and certainly a kinder gentler man than before.

So while he may have served Khorne unwittingly, he clearly did not turn from the Emperor or fall to chaos. No GK has ever fallen. Fluff, GW History, earlier additions, codices, etc. all back this up. You can do a fallen GK army, but it makes about as much sense as a Hive Fleet on a mission of mercy to protect an agri Imperial Planet and preserve it for future human generations. You CAN make it work, but a vast majority won't buy it on principal alone.

That gives me an idea...

An idea of a group of SM who are cursed by malal. They still fight for the emprah, but malal gets what he wants from them. (I've yet to get the details, but it's a thought).

You could just say the Malal cultist killed some Grey Knights and looted their armor. That won't offend any stick in the rears...

...so make sure to add they died begging and screaming for mercy like little girls.

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

This. feth the haters, they're taking this fictional universe far too seriously.

Calling people haters is an excellent way of ignoring an opposing forces argument.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

This. feth the haters, they're taking this fictional universe far too seriously.

Calling people haters is an excellent way of ignoring an opposing forces argument.

Hater's gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate!

 Boggy Man wrote:
You could just say the Malal cultist killed some Grey Knights and looted their armor. That won't offend any stick in the rears...

...so make sure to add they died begging and screaming for mercy like little girls.

I'd go with heavy misleading instead of corruption. That way the Grey Knight players aren't upset that you stepped on their fluff. Keep in mind that I am sure some of these Grey Knight players fielded Driago in every game they play because fluff doesn't matter when you want to win....which I find very silly.

So say that one of the Chaos Gods produced an image of the Emperor that knew the intricate details of the Grey Knights past and convinced a unit of Grey Knights that their best way to serve the Emperor was to murder the following heavily corrupted enemies:

99% of the Space Marine chapters
Standard Humans as they are all feeding Chaos with their sins

 Selym wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

This. feth the haters, they're taking this fictional universe far too seriously.

Calling people haters is an excellent way of ignoring an opposing forces argument.

Hater's gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate!

Point proven.

 Lobukia wrote:
Justicar Alaric kinda covers all of this. He can be used by Chaos, he can be turned from the path he wanted to walk...

...but even after being stranded, buck naked and alone, in the Eye of Terror for a long long time...

He comes out taint free and actually seems to be less violent and more compassionate than most Grey Knights and certainly a kinder gentler man than before.

So while he may have served Khorne unwittingly, he clearly did not turn from the Emperor or fall to chaos. No GK has ever fallen. Fluff, GW History, earlier additions, codices, etc. all back this up. You can do a fallen GK army, but it makes about as much sense as a Hive Fleet on a mission of mercy to protect an agri Imperial Planet and preserve it for future human generations. You CAN make it work, but a vast majority won't buy it on principal alone.

I'm gonna make this Hive Fleet. It's gonna be called Hive Fleet Brofist, and I'm gonna insist it has Battle Brothers with any EoM. (Except Angry marines, because let's face it, they love no man.)

 Purifier wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Justicar Alaric kinda covers all of this. He can be used by Chaos, he can be turned from the path he wanted to walk...

...but even after being stranded, buck naked and alone, in the Eye of Terror for a long long time...

He comes out taint free and actually seems to be less violent and more compassionate than most Grey Knights and certainly a kinder gentler man than before.

So while he may have served Khorne unwittingly, he clearly did not turn from the Emperor or fall to chaos. No GK has ever fallen. Fluff, GW History, earlier additions, codices, etc. all back this up. You can do a fallen GK army, but it makes about as much sense as a Hive Fleet on a mission of mercy to protect an agri Imperial Planet and preserve it for future human generations. You CAN make it work, but a vast majority won't buy it on principal alone.

I'm gonna make this Hive Fleet. It's gonna be called Hive Fleet Brofist, and I'm gonna insist it has Battle Brothers with any EoM. (Except Angry marines, because let's face it, they love no man.)

Include the Hugging carnifex!

Hive Fleet Awwsokuet?

 GreyHamster wrote:
Chaos Grey Knights are like the prototypical 40k 'i is creativ' special snowflake idea. It's been beaten to death so many times even Nurgle doesn't want that zombie.

this comment was the highlight of the thread for me. it's sig worthy and it also reminded me of this family guy clip right away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HLrkaJTud8

Well, I might as well share my own Grey Knights (of Malice!!) fluff. And to be fair, I came up with this idea before I had heard of anything like it (and originally used it to troll) not sure if that makes me a progenitor or if me/all the people I told just hadn't heard of it yet.

Basically, if you read the section on the Chambers of Purity, it is pretty clear that something BIG and NASTY is down there, something that only the most incorruptible of the incorruptible Grey Knights are allowed to know about and are responsible with keeping locked away.
For me, that THING is Malal. After being summoned by the Sons of Malice, he was eventually defeated by the Grey Knights. Being a Chaos God, even a minor one, meant he was unslayable, so the Grey Knights did the next best thing - they locked him away in one of the most protected places in the Universe.
Normally that would be the end of it. Sealed away, forgotten, blablabla, but... he extended a deal to the Grey Knights. He hated Chaos just as much as they did... and they were very pragmatic... so he gave the Purifiers his blessing in exchange for their services. He makes them good at killing Chaos, they kill Chaos, and, whenever possible, Imperials (ie, the purgings)

I didn't go so far as to make them "fallen", but they do help Malal in exchange for his goodies. They still keep him locked away and bound, and kill his worshipers when they find him (which brings him more glee anyways), but they don't deny his gifts.
I also enforce this fluff by not bringing any non-Purifiers (they don't like working with the other brotherhoods, lest their activities on the battlefield seem suspicious) or things that could reasonably be Purifers, like Paladins(gotta have a Purifier-Apothecary) and Dreadnoughts/dreadknights.

I need to make another army if I want to use interceptors/normal terminators :(

Rihgu wrote:
Well, I might as well share my own Grey Knights (of Malice!!) fluff. And to be fair, I came up with this idea before I had heard of anything like it (and originally used it to troll) not sure if that makes me a progenitor or if me/all the people I told just hadn't heard of it yet.

Basically, if you read the section on the Chambers of Purity, it is pretty clear that something BIG and NASTY is down there, something that only the most incorruptible of the incorruptible Grey Knights are allowed to know about and are responsible with keeping locked away.
For me, that THING is Malal. After being summoned by the Sons of Malice, he was eventually defeated by the Grey Knights. Being a Chaos God, even a minor one, meant he was unslayable, so the Grey Knights did the next best thing - they locked him away in one of the most protected places in the Universe.
Normally that would be the end of it. Sealed away, forgotten, blablabla, but... he extended a deal to the Grey Knights. He hated Chaos just as much as they did... and they were very pragmatic... so he gave the Purifiers his blessing in exchange for their services. He makes them good at killing Chaos, they kill Chaos, and, whenever possible, Imperials (ie, the purgings)

I didn't go so far as to make them "fallen", but they do help Malal in exchange for his goodies. They still keep him locked away and bound, and kill his worshipers when they find him (which brings him more glee anyways), but they don't deny his gifts.
I also enforce this fluff by not bringing any non-Purifiers (they don't like working with the other brotherhoods, lest their activities on the battlefield seem suspicious) or things that could reasonably be Purifers, like Paladins(gotta have a Purifier-Apothecary) and Dreadnoughts/dreadknights.

I need to make another army if I want to use interceptors/normal terminators :(

I like that idea quite a bit, nice one!

Rihgu wrote:
Well, I might as well share my own Grey Knights (of Malice!!) fluff. And to be fair, I came up with this idea before I had heard of anything like it (and originally used it to troll) not sure if that makes me a progenitor or if me/all the people I told just hadn't heard of it yet.

Basically, if you read the section on the Chambers of Purity, it is pretty clear that something BIG and NASTY is down there, something that only the most incorruptible of the incorruptible Grey Knights are allowed to know about and are responsible with keeping locked away.
For me, that THING is Malal. After being summoned by the Sons of Malice, he was eventually defeated by the Grey Knights. Being a Chaos God, even a minor one, meant he was unslayable, so the Grey Knights did the next best thing - they locked him away in one of the most protected places in the Universe.
Normally that would be the end of it. Sealed away, forgotten, blablabla, but... he extended a deal to the Grey Knights. He hated Chaos just as much as they did... and they were very pragmatic... so he gave the Purifiers his blessing in exchange for their services. He makes them good at killing Chaos, they kill Chaos, and, whenever possible, Imperials (ie, the purgings)

I didn't go so far as to make them "fallen", but they do help Malal in exchange for his goodies. They still keep him locked away and bound, and kill his worshipers when they find him (which brings him more glee anyways), but they don't deny his gifts.
I also enforce this fluff by not bringing any non-Purifiers (they don't like working with the other brotherhoods, lest their activities on the battlefield seem suspicious) or things that could reasonably be Purifers, like Paladins(gotta have a Purifier-Apothecary) and Dreadnoughts/dreadknights.

I need to make another army if I want to use interceptors/normal terminators :(

I'm not...abhorred by the idea. And purifiers don't necessarily need to be toting a flamer. I think it'd be fair to take normal termies painted to your purifier theme.

Rihgu wrote:
Well, I might as well share my own Grey Knights (of Malice!!) fluff. And to be fair, I came up with this idea before I had heard of anything like it (and originally used it to troll) not sure if that makes me a progenitor or if me/all the people I told just hadn't heard of it yet.

Basically, if you read the section on the Chambers of Purity, it is pretty clear that something BIG and NASTY is down there, something that only the most incorruptible of the incorruptible Grey Knights are allowed to know about and are responsible with keeping locked away.
For me, that THING is Malal. After being summoned by the Sons of Malice, he was eventually defeated by the Grey Knights. Being a Chaos God, even a minor one, meant he was unslayable, so the Grey Knights did the next best thing - they locked him away in one of the most protected places in the Universe.
Normally that would be the end of it. Sealed away, forgotten, blablabla, but... he extended a deal to the Grey Knights. He hated Chaos just as much as they did... and they were very pragmatic... so he gave the Purifiers his blessing in exchange for their services. He makes them good at killing Chaos, they kill Chaos, and, whenever possible, Imperials (ie, the purgings)

I didn't go so far as to make them "fallen", but they do help Malal in exchange for his goodies. They still keep him locked away and bound, and kill his worshipers when they find him (which brings him more glee anyways), but they don't deny his gifts.
I also enforce this fluff by not bringing any non-Purifiers (they don't like working with the other brotherhoods, lest their activities on the battlefield seem suspicious) or things that could reasonably be Purifers, like Paladins(gotta have a Purifier-Apothecary) and Dreadnoughts/dreadknights.

I need to make another army if I want to use interceptors/normal terminators :(

It works well without breaking any fluff form. They aren't corrupted, and the way it works makes sense.

Phew! I'm glad people aren't repulsed by it. I actually spent a lot of time working on the fluff (and color scheme. It's basic, but it took a lot of time and patience to figure out how to get black and white to work, and to design the 'heraldry' for each model) and my biggest fear is getting denied a game because my army "destroys fluff" or "doesn't make sense".
Realistically, I shouldn't have let this whole idea get this out of hand, though, and left it as a 'troll' topic

@ Makutsu