There's a local tournament coming up this Sunday, 6/30, and as of now, I really don't know what I want to bring. It is 1750 using the Bay Area Open mission objectives and it's going to be a somewhat competitive tournament thanks largely to the people who are going to be there. There will probably be about 30 players and some of the players include Janthkin (probably trying out his mechdar or maybe his more tried-&-true Swarmlord tyranids), Reecius (perhaps Footdar?) and Frankie (no idea what he's bringing) from Frontline Gaming, Adam with his nasty triple-Riptide list (2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau), Grey Therion and his triple-dreadknight Draigowing list, "The Upset-Kid" ImotekhTheStormlord who was my only loss at the BAO, John and his triple-stormtalon/triple-thunderfire cannon marines, Kingsley and his Space Marines+Tau (Best Space Marine player at the BAO) as well as others. Oh yeah, also coming is the winner of the Bay Area Open 2013, Liz Foster. The only good player I know not playing is Grant Theft Auto and his seer council deldar (Part I - 1850 Armored Zombie Apocalypse Chaos vs NEW Seer Council Deldar, Part II - 1850 Armored Chaoszilla vs Grant Theft Auto's NEW Seer Council Deldar) but that is because he is the one running this tournament.
So currently, I'm not sure what to bring. What do you guys think:
- Necrons. This is one of my more competitive armies and the army I won the Golden Throne GT with. It won't be an easy fight for them, especially against Janthkin's tyranids or Adam's Triptide Tau army.
- Necrons+Grey Knights. This is a list that I am considering, allying Draigowing with necron tesla-spam.
- Chaos+Chaos. The army that I've been playing the most recently....to mixed results. I have a lot of different builds here, ranging from FMC-spam to triple-heldrakes to my Zombie Apocalypse build to my Soul of LoC-N-Load.....you name it, I can probably bring it.
- Hive Fleet Pandora. Won Best Tyranids at the BAO with my bugs.
- Orks. Perhaps I should give my nob biker-ork boys army a try? This is the army I have played with the least but it could be fun....except probably against the Triptide Tau list or the triple-thunderfire marine army. The main downside, however, is that most of the models aren't painted.
- Surprise us. Who cares about winning? Try out some new, funky list.
Well I am hoping to be able to grab a spot for this little tournament. Even had a small little practice match with my list up at Frontline Gaming last weekend. Look forward to getting beaten around the tables with so many good players but still have a fun day of gaming.
I'd say go with whatever you've been practicing the most. All your lists are strong enough so I think the one you have the most experience with has the best chance.
Barring that, I say take whatever army is the most complete painting-wise. A 30 player RTT with those names shouldn't be a grey plastic event.
Panzer1944 wrote: Well I am hoping to be able to grab a spot for this little tournament. Even had a small little practice match with my list up at Frontline Gaming last weekend. Look forward to getting beaten around the tables with so many good players but still have a fun day of gaming.
Come say hi! It's always cool to meet new, local dakkalites.
BTW, I will be at Frontline today to battle it out with Reece and his mighty, mighty Footdar (and I am going to mighty, mighty stompdar arses). HAHAHAHA....
Plus, it is a real test of skill to win with orks at a competitive event.
I will be there, btw
Of course....how could I forget.
Just added you to my list of "good" players in my intro.
Valek wrote: Triple dragon with crons is that way to go i think
I'm not so sure. I'm actually concerned about bringing a largely air-force army with Forgeworld being allowed.
However, triple-dragons with daemon FMC's.....that is something I can get behind.
hyv3mynd wrote: I'd say go with whatever you've been practicing the most. All your lists are strong enough so I think the one you have the most experience with has the best chance.
Barring that, I say take whatever army is the most complete painting-wise. A 30 player RTT with those names shouldn't be a grey plastic event.
Well, recently, I've been practicing the most with my Chaos-Chaos.....but I've also been losing the most with them as well. Lol.
Still, that won't deter me. They are probably the frontrunners right now in terms of who do I want to bring.
BTW, with the exception of the orks, they are all painted.
A driagowing is more like GK with cron allies. The one I run costs 955 points and I don't have staff or warding or psyammo in my list. I would hold that for the 2k match. Your going to be limited to a couple of ABS and 3 NS with warriors at 1750. I do like the combo... I would be more concerned about the triple tide if he was running the ion accelerator... getting past your 2+ puts your wing in a lot of danger. You can always run Nem force swords for the boost to the invul but even then its still only 4++. You "might" kill a tide in 2 turns if every single tesla weapon you have is turned on one.. and he gets some bad rolls.
I'm liking the LoC chaos list, you run, for this. I know the grim has to treat you right but getting 2++ rerollable saves allows you to get in just about any of these armies faces, and quickly. Using your FMC to deal with pesky 2+ save units and the flyers.
Just had a 1750 battle against Reece's Footdar. This may be a preview of the tournament as we are both going and we may both be bringing these lists along.
Reece is undefeated so far with his Footdar. I, on the other hand, have lost a lot recently with my Chaos. However, I brought what might be one of the biggest challenges for Reece's footdar - triple heldrakes (it's also my very first time running them)!
I have 2 goals in the game. The first naturally is to be the one to give Reece's footdar their first lost. The 2nd is to be the first one to kill his dreaded Wraithknight.
Roci wrote: A driagowing is more like GK with cron allies. The one I run costs 955 points and I don't have staff or warding or psyammo in my list. I would hold that for the 2k match. Your going to be limited to a couple of ABS and 3 NS with warriors at 1750. I do like the combo... I would be more concerned about the triple tide if he was running the ion accelerator... getting past your 2+ puts your wing in a lot of danger. You can always run Nem force swords for the boost to the invul but even then its still only 4++. You "might" kill a tide in 2 turns if every single tesla weapon you have is turned on one.. and he gets some bad rolls.
I'm liking the LoC chaos list, you run, for this. I know the grim has to treat you right but getting 2++ rerollable saves allows you to get in just about any of these armies faces, and quickly. Using your FMC to deal with pesky 2+ save units and the flyers.
The chaos chaos with drakes is up there as well.
I'm having problems building a 1750 Draigowing that I like. Tau is definitely a concern, though fortunately for the paladinstar, Adam runs HBC's on his 3 riptides (however, there will be other Tau players there and they run IA's).
Nemesis force swords only boost up the Invuln's in assault, and that is something I don't have to worry about against Tau. The force hammer will insta-kill anything on the Tau army.
The frontrunner will be my Chaos, though what exactly is the question. Triple heldrakes, triple soulgrinders, FMC-spam, Tzeentch Heralds, my Soul of LoC-N-Load....can't quite decide on which I want to bring.
Well, I think you should give the pink demons a go! The concept is good.
Sorry, don't own a sisters army....though my friend SabrX does.
However, the 50 Shades of Pink daemons is definitely one I am considering. I really like their shooting and it is my only list where I can take both the Grimoire and the Portaglyph other than FMC-spam.
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SnotRash wrote: I know this thread isn't about this, but can you give out more of John's Triple Talon/Triple TFC list,
I'm curious as to what's all in it?
I also think you should roll with the Pink Daemons. It's not your normal run of the mill list that you see.
He is running Space Marines with Dark Angels allies and his list is prepared to take on the helturkeys.
He's running something like this:
Master of the Forge
DA Librarian - Lvl 2, Power Field Generator
2x10 Tact Squads
1x5 DA Tact Squad - Flakk Missiles
3x Storm Talons
4x Hyperios Launchers (DA)
3x Thunderfire Cannons
Vindicator (DA)
Aegis Defense Line w/Quad-guns
He may only have 3 troops but he can combat squad them for 5. Moreover, there will be 1 match with the Scouring and 1 match with Big Guns so he will have a lot of extra scoring units. He can also fortify up to 4 ruins for his guys, has decent anti-air and good anti-infantry. It's a solid list.
Master of the Forge
DA Librarian - Lvl 2, Power Field Generator
2x10 Tact Squads
1x5 DA Tact Squad - Flakk Missiles
3x Storm Talons
4x Hyperios Launchers (DA)
3x Thunderfire Cannons
Vindicator (DA)
Aegis Defense Line w/Quad-guns
He may only have 3 troops but he can combat squad them for 5. Moreover, there will be 1 match with the Scouring and 1 match with Big Guns so he will have a lot of extra scoring units. He can also fortify up to 4 ruins for his guys, has decent anti-air and good anti-infantry. It's a solid list.
thanks for the quick reply, I really appreciate it.
Good Luck
Valek wrote: I think Nurgle Marines/ Zombie stuff and Nurgle deamons w maybe plague drones would be very good.
It is resillient and pumps out good damage.
It may be able to take a smaller tournament, but it won't win against this all-star cast of players. It's got poor shooting, below-average assault and piss-poor mobility. Resiliency is its biggest strength but against the likes of Tau and triple-TFC's which can ignore cover, not to mention potentially the psychic power Terrify from psychic-heavy armies, and even its resiliency is questionable. BTW, my zombie list won't have much plague units. Rather, it'll have to rely on heldrakes and oblits to shoulder most of the offensive burden.
If you want to be competitive I would avoid the army you haven't played in a while (orks) because I'd imagine it would be very easy to make silly mistakes with them and then you'd be frustrated with yourself. I'd also avoid the chaos+chaos simply due to the fact that you said it didn't have a great track record.
I think I'll vote Necrons+Grey Knights though I think if you made a tau+demons list it would be hilarious.
See you tomorrow, Jim! If I had my Warp Spiders painted I would bring the Footdar, but I think I will have to go Nids as they are fully painted with the units I want.
Roci wrote: I would say Cron/tau if you had access to the tides. I'm working on that as my next little project. It will require the tides though...
I like that teamwork!
3 Annihilation Barges
Flyer transports
Riptide
Missile-sides
Wraith counter-assault unit
I'm already drooling at the possiblities....but that will probably have to be a future project.
First new project I'm going to work on - Grey Knights + Eldar. Imagine 3 shunt dreadknights and a Wraith knight.
Better stop it now before I slobber all over myself with drool.
Reecius wrote: See you tomorrow, Jim! If I had my Warp Spiders painted I would bring the Footdar, but I think I will have to go Nids as they are fully painted with the units I want.
Going to be a tough tournament, and a lot of fun!
Nice! Tyranids are going to be a mega-tough matchup for my psychic-heavy daemons.
Still can't decide between 3 helturkeys or 1 helturkey + 2 soulgrinders. Turkeys will be more effective against the MEQ builds. Grinders will be more effective against horde builds.
I think it's going to come down to a game day decision....
I'd like you to surprise us with something you haven't to (my knowledge) done before.
Necrorks!
Biker Nobz running up the field with a wraithwing. Necron bakery lacks models, send in the boyz! I mean who has the firepower to take out both a wraithwing and a biker nob unit before they get into to combat and still be in a position to handle all those flyers?
Alternatively you could go with the new up and coming ally army which is sweeping the nation, the unbeatable SistersNids!
Well obviously I'm going to vote for Hive Fleet Pandora, it's my default setting
But I've come to like your bat-reps whatever you play, and it looks like there may be a few Nids there already so you're bound to encounter one of them I suppose.
I'd like to vote against the Crons though. I just don't like Crons very much.
Yup, it's NONE of the lists above (in my opening post). It's actually somewhat of throwback list. It's not the most competitive list, but I feel with it, I have a shot at winning.
What is it? It's a big F-U anti-meta list. That's all I'm saying for now. You're just going to have to find out tomorrow.
SpacePup1987 wrote: As a new cron player, what would a 1750 list consist of?
This would be my competitive 1750 cron list:
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackles, ResOrb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackles, ResOrb
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
Baktru wrote: Well obviously I'm going to vote for Hive Fleet Pandora, it's my default setting
But I've come to like your bat-reps whatever you play, and it looks like there may be a few Nids there already so you're bound to encounter one of them I suppose.
I'd like to vote against the Crons though. I just don't like Crons very much.
Nope, no crons....and no bugs either.
However, what it will have is Forgeworld (yes, FW are allowed).
jy2 wrote: Yup, it's NONE of the lists above (in my opening post). It's actually somewhat of throwback list. It's not the most competitive list, but I feel with it, I have a shot at winning.
What is it? It's a big F-U anti-meta list. That's all I'm saying for now. You're just going to have to find out tomorrow.
Bringing out the Space Puppies, perhaps? Haven't seen them in ages.
jy2 wrote: Yup, it's NONE of the lists above (in my opening post). It's actually somewhat of throwback list. It's not the most competitive list, but I feel with it, I have a shot at winning.
What is it? It's a big F-U anti-meta list. That's all I'm saying for now. You're just going to have to find out tomorrow.
Bringing out the Space Puppies, perhaps? Haven't seen them in ages.
jy2 wrote: Yup, it's NONE of the lists above (in my opening post). It's actually somewhat of throwback list. It's not the most competitive list, but I feel with it, I have a shot at winning.
What is it? It's a big F-U anti-meta list. That's all I'm saying for now. You're just going to have to find out tomorrow.
Bringing out the Space Puppies, perhaps? Haven't seen them in ages.
Hey Kev,
You know me too well. Yes, PUPPIES!!! One of my original and very first tournament armies.
But it's not going to be a conventional one....I'm not going to bring a single long fang!!!
Before I get into the tournament, I believe an introduction to my new army is required.
Just the night before the tournament, I was still unsure of what to bring to the tournament. Then, while I was out shopping with my spouse, I had an epiphany. While bored out of my gourd waiting for her to browse the local shops (but never tell them that!), I was sitting down playing that stupid Candy Crush on my iPhone when in the midst of my indecision, I had a moment of clarity. What better way to screw with people than to bring something that no one was expecting. In other words, I was going to bring a list that everyone said was bad. This list will either beat you black and blue if you didn't bring the tools to deal with it....or it would die a horrible death.
Let me introduce to you my new Space Wolves:
1750 Quad Pro Quo Space Wolves
First off, I'll start with my HQ's, from left to right:
Left: Rune Priest Loki - Meltabombs - Jaws of the World Wolf, Murderous Hurricane
Middle: Rune Priest Blackheart - Jaws of the World Wolf, Stormcaller
Right: Rune Priest Goldmoon - Boltgun - Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning
Rune Priests bring a lot of utility to the army. They are also a big F-U to Tau, Tyranids and Necrons. I may go eat crow for for this list, but they can go eat Jaws.
They've also now got the best psychic defense in the game. Yeah, F-U to all those psychic armies. Iron Arm and Fortune ain't going to save your a$$ because half the time, you won't be getting them off!
Finally, they are very flexible. 1 Rune Priest has unlimited range AT fire (Living Lightning). Another has anti-horde firepower (Murderous Hurricane) that will also slow them down. Finally, my Warlord can give all friendly Space Wolf units within 6" 5+ cover....and he's going to be inside an indestructible land raider!
For my first land raider, it is actually an Elite selection. Because Forgeworld is allowed here, I've gone with several specialized FW units.
Land Raider Prometheus "Prometheus" - Mult-melta
You think dark eldar and tau are the only ones with Night Vision? Think again. I can see you in the dark and then I will illuminate you with searchlights for my entire army to fire upon.
He also reduces your cover by -1 and gives +1 to my reserves should I decide to reserve some of my units.
Now we go with my 3 Heavy Supports. We'll start off with basic first:
Land Raider "Larry" (because he is just a regular guy)
We then go to advance - my horde and Tau specialist:
Land Raider Helios "Helios"
A land raider and a whirlwind all in one! What a nifty idea. I can now shoot down tanks and hordes all at the same time!
Yeah, Tau, you're not the only ones who can ignore cover. Here, have a cold one...
Now we graduate to the monstrous:
Land Raider Achilles "Achilles" - Seige Shield
This baby is near indestructible. He is immune to the melta and lance special rules, and any damage to it is reduced by -1 on the damage charts.
He can handle both vehicles (2x TL-Multi-meltas) as well as horde (Thunderfire cannon). This guy's a beast! He's also going to make killing my Warlord near impossible unless I disembark him.
Yikes, that is a lot of Armour value! I see problems with taking objectives and god help you if you come up against dark eldar. All that haywire would shred you!
Just for clarification can the thunderfire cannon be PotmS to aim at infantry while las cannons shred a vehicle?
CaptainJay wrote: Not too keen on the painting but the list looks pretty nasty, be interesting to see how you do. I await the batreps eagerly.
Sorry, but this was a last minute army put together from various of my other armies. Hence, all the different paint schemes. The Achilles isn't really painted yet and is a WIP.
It turned out to be smaller than I had anticipated, with only 16 people. Several people that I was anticipating would be here couldn't make it, including our resident Draigowing/dreadknight player, the BAO Best Space Marine player and 2 guys from Team Zero Comp (who probably were too scared to come j.k.!)
Still, looking at the armies, it looked like there would be some fierce competition, though none that looked like it could handle 4 land raiders.
Tau/eldar, or Taudar, was the dominant armies in this tournament. This one included the Forgeworld Nightwing, a very nasty and good flyer with Vector Dancer and 2+ cover!!!
Pure Slaaneshi marines. You're not getting cover from most of their shooting.
Team Zero Comp member Raw Dogger's Dark Angels. Not sure if he was using allies.
Janthkin's Slaaneshi Chaos Daemons+Chaos Space Marines.
ImmotekhtheStormlord's Necrons+Grey Knights.
Pure Tau with Forgeworld characters.
Adam's Triptide Taudar.
Footguard with 4 flyers, including 2 Forgeworld.
Yours truly.
Ministry's Taudar.
Jame's Lascannon-spam space marines. He had 11 lascannons in his army.
Gus' footdar. Gus has been away for a while, but he was the Tau player who gave my armies fits back in 5th. Yeah, back when I was running the best army in the game, Grey Knights, he was one of the very few players who consistently gave my knights some of their toughest fights.
Another pure Tau player with a sunshark!
John, the Space Marine+Dark Angels player. He actually changed up his list just before the tournament, opting to drop the 3 stormtalons for some bikers, 2 more Hyperios and a vindicator.
The BAO 2013 winner, Liz and her no-MC daemons. She definitely wanted nothing to do with my Quad Pro Quo Wolves.
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ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Yikes, that is a lot of Armour value! I see problems with taking objectives and god help you if you come up against dark eldar. All that haywire would shred you!
Just for clarification can the thunderfire cannon be PotmS to aim at infantry while las cannons shred a vehicle?
I was looking forwards to playing Frankie's venom-spam DE list. Too bad at the last minute, he couldn't make it.
Yes, you can use PotMS to fire the TFC and snap-shoot the MM's at a different target.
Aw, I was hoping to see Frankie's list here too. That was going to be the one I rooted for. Codex loyalties and all.
That Necron list will probably be pretty dangerous to you, and that 3 Riptide Taudar list could be tricky. I was hoping you would get your last Land Raider painted before the game, but I guess you didn't have time.
That Nightwing is sexy. I'd love to field one, but I don't want to spend that much on the FW book. The models I'm fine with, but the books are just too expensive.
Janthkin wrote: I thought Reece had the Tyranid front covered, and my Daemons had the advantage of already being in the travel bag. These things happen.
Also no Sisters, no Guard, and no DE, if we're counting.
It looked like there was a guard player, unless he dropped.
Both lists are very competitive. There is also another one similar but with less wraiths and a CSM Daemon Prince with Black Mace instead (the one Tomb King runs). All are good.
From these lists, you can kind of see which are the more competitive necron units that people use.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: Best of luck! (unless of course you play against me, in which case I temporarily retract my blessing)
Wow....you are both a scholar and a prophet.
SpacePup1987 wrote: Good luck! As a new player I really enjoy your stuff.
Thanks for the tips, cheers.
Thanks, and you're welcome!
tanuvein wrote: Aw, I was hoping to see Frankie's list here too. That was going to be the one I rooted for. Codex loyalties and all.
That Necron list will probably be pretty dangerous to you, and that 3 Riptide Taudar list could be tricky. I was hoping you would get your last Land Raider painted before the game, but I guess you didn't have time.
That Nightwing is sexy. I'd love to field one, but I don't want to spend that much on the FW book. The models I'm fine with, but the books are just too expensive.
Surprising amount of Taudar here. Good luck!
Yeah, I was also hoping to beat....I mean, see Frankie's list here also. One thing I can tell you is that Frankie is on a bit of a losing streak against me, just as I have been on a bit of a losing streak against deldar.
Necrons have nothing that can really hurt me. Dreadknight will go down faster than you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. As for the wraithstar, no way will it survive 3 jaws as well as my shooting. My list is really a bad matchup for him. The only chance he has is if he can go 2nd on a mission with lots of objectives....and then pray that the game ends on 5.
Triptide list will have problems as well. Tactics against them? Shoot down the Ethereal's unit. Then tankshock the hell out of his troops and watch them all run away. Oh, and jaws the riptides while I'm at it.
Nightwings are pretty good, at least on paper. I can't believe something like that can get 2+ cover. Then again, you can also achieve the same results on a heldrake with Forewarning+Grimoire or Invisibility.
I'm actually not too surprised about taudar. They are actually a very, very good combo. IMO they are top-tier whereas my list is more gimmicky.
There would have been had Reece showed up. He was bringing bugs.
Janthkin wrote: I thought Reece had the Tyranid front covered, and my Daemons had the advantage of already being in the travel bag. These things happen.
Also no Sisters, no Guard, and no DE, if we're counting.
Guards was there....with 4 flyers of which 2 were Forgeworld.
Janthkin wrote: I thought Reece had the Tyranid front covered, and my Daemons had the advantage of already being in the travel bag. These things happen.
Also no Sisters, no Guard, and no DE, if we're counting.
It looked like there was a guard player, unless he dropped.
He played until the end. I know he lost his first game (against the necron-GK player) though I don't know how he did afterwards.
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Janthkin wrote: D'oh. Somehow, I forgot about that one. Fine, "Also no Sisters, no BT, and no DE, if we're counting. "
Just so that you don't have to flip back and forth to see my list again.
Rune Priest Loki - Meltabombs - Jaws of the World Wolf, Murderous Hurricane Rune Priest Blackheart - Jaws of the World Wolf, Stormcaller Rune Priest Goldmoon - Boltgun - Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning
Land Raider Prometheus "Prometheus" - Multi-melta (Note - Elite selection)
Land Raider "Larry"
Land Raider Helios "Helios"
Land Raider Achilles "Achilles" - Seige Shield
1750 Space Marines + Dark Angels
John, my opponent for this game, is more of a casual player than a competitive one. Just a few days before, I actually got in a practice game with him. On that day, he also ran 3 stormtalons in his list. I was kind of surprised to see him drop them, but I could see why. His list back then lacked mobility of troops as well as a powerful gun so he dropped his flyers for bike troops and a vindicator (and possibly other stuff). Let's see if those changes worked.
Master of the Forge - Conversion Beamer
Space Marine Captain - 2+, Bike (Warlord)
Dark Angel Librarian - Powerfield Generator - Prescience
10x Tactical Marines - Meltagun, Missile Launcher
8x Space Marine Bikers - 1x Attack Bike w/Multi-melta (combat squadded)
Tertiary (1-pt each): First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord
Actually, missions were altered slightly. The bonus points for Scouring Fast Attacks or Big Gun Heavy Supports actually count toward the Overall score and not the mission objectives. Thus, you can conceivably get up to 14-pts per game. I attribute this to a misunderstanding of the BAO rules, but it doesn't matter. I still aim to crush all my opponents.
I felt bad for my opponent. Other than 1 lascannon, a conversion beamer and the vindicator, he doesn't have much that can deal with my LR's other than to try to glance them to death. As soon as he moves his melta-units towards me, I am going to take them down. I am going to shove my invincible Achilles down the throat of his army whereas the other LR's will just sit on objectives and go pew-pew. But before that, I am going to get those FA bonus points and kill off his Hyperios. That should be rather easy. Jaws will auto-kill them if they don't deny or I can just run them over with my LR's (can't move out of the way of my tank shocks). This is a bad matchup for John and he's going to need a lot of luck to have any chance of pulling off the victory here.
Sorry, no pictures this turn. John barely moves his models and his shooting takes off only 1 Hull Point from my Achilles.
Space Wolves 1
Spoiler:
Tanks advance. Everyone moves 6" except the Achilles, which moves 12". Blackheart (my Warlord) casts Stormcaller.
My shooting is pretty ineffective as well. I only kill 1 biker and 1 marine.
All my AT fails to do anything to his vindicator thanks to his ADL giving it 4+ cover.
Space Marines 2
Spoiler:
John's movement, which is very little.
His shooting just manages to scratch my paint, though I did make my cover against his vindicator.
Space Wolves 2
Spoiler:
Aagh...Prometheus immobilizes itself on terrain. Goldmoon's unit then disembarks.
Achilles go after the vindicator.
Once again, the vindicator survives my firepower, though it is shaken and immobilized.
The rest of my shooting does jack.
Space Marines 3
Spoiler:
Bikers start to move out.
Conversion Beamer at S10 manages to kill Larry (the normal land raider), giving my opponent First Blood . Now his TFC's finally have a target (well, 2 of them do anyways) and fire at Loki's unit. However, he doesn't hit very much due to how I spaced out my wolves and only kill 1.
VP's - SM: 1, SW: 0
Space Wolves 3
Spoiler:
Blackheart suffers Perils but manages to cast Stormcaller anyways.
Achilles then tank shocks and runs over 2 of the Hyperios launchers.
Goldmoon makes a break for the objective (a 3-pointer in my deployment zone).
Blackheart's unit moves up.
Helios gets behind cover near an objective.
Prometheus shoots down 2 marines.
Loki casts Jaws, killing off the Hyperios for 1VP as well as 1 biker.
PotMS multi-melta from Achilles then finishes off the vindicator.
VP's - SM: 1, SW: 2
Space Marines 4
Spoiler:
Marines shuffle around.
SM shooting takes off another 1HP from Achilles as well as kill 1-2 grey hunters.
Space Wolves 4
Spoiler:
Loki and his hunters jump into the creek to avoid enemy fire.
They then run forwards and hide in the ruins. This is what I call Urban Tactical Warfare.
Achilles moves to the other flank (where the other Hyperios are).
Combined shooting from my 3 land raiders wipe out 1 unit of thunderfire and its techmarine.
VP's - SM: 1, SW: 3
I also kill 2 more unsuspecting marines who were waiting in line to get their lunch.
Finally, the Prometheus kills off 4 marines on the Icarus lascannon.
Space Marines 5
Spoiler:
Overview of what would be the last game turn.
Bikers make a break for his 3-pt objective.
His other bikers and tact squad go after his 1-pt objective.
Master of the Forge would break off.
SM shooting would take off 1 more HP from Achilles but couldn't quite finish him off.
Bikers could not make it to the objective in No-Man's-Land due to Achilles blocking their way and so just turbo-boost around the objective.
His other bikers also turbo-boost around the objective to protect them against my hunters.
Space Wolves 5
Spoiler:
Achilles tank shocks and runs over his other unit of Hyperios. I've now killed both of his Fast Attacks which, ironically, aren't very fast at all.
VP's - SM: 1, SW: 4
Hunters disembark from Helios to claim an objective.
Finally, Loki splits off from the hunters, who go to contest the 3-pt objective.
Hunters then run to contest. To add insult to injury, Loki casts Jaws and kill 1 biker along with the Space Marine Captain, thus giving me Slay the Warlord as
well.
VP's - SM: 1, SW: 5
Game ends. I've won on Purge the Alien 5-1.
I'm contesting John's 3-pt objective here.
I forget that vehicles cannot contest so my opponent does get this 1-pt objective. However....
I've got the 2-pt & 3-pt objectives in my deployment zone.
I also get Warlord, Linebreaker (grey hunters) and 2 Fast Attacks for a maximum of 10-pts to my opponent's 1 (First Blood).
Yeah, this was just what I expected. I gotta give John props for sticking it out though, despite the bad matchup. He did kill 1 LR more than I expected and came very close to killing another. However, his biggest mistake was not moving out his bikers much earlier to threaten the other objectives. It could have been a closer game had he done that, though I'd probably still have won. In any case, my opponent was the first victim to my anti-meta list. I'm expecting 2 more....
Can you cast spells from inside your Raiders? Thought you needed LOS.. Just curious, as the Raiders aren't protecting much if you have to get out to cast.
Don't feel like pulling out my SW codex/faqs haha. I know 4thEd Eldrad/DA PFG got nerfed so they couldn't.
hippesthippo wrote: Can you cast spells from inside your Raiders? Thought you needed LOS.. Just curious, as the Raiders aren't protecting much if you have to get out to cast.
Don't feel like pulling out my SW codex/faqs haha. I know 4thEd Eldrad/DA PFG got nerfed so they couldn't.
The only thing I can cast from within the LR's is Stormcaller to give surrounding LR's 5+ cover. Otherwise, yes, I need to expose them to risk if I want to cast any of their other psychic powers.
However, losing a 100-pt HQ in order to kill a 200-pt riptide or potentially more is well worth the risk.
hippesthippo wrote: Can you cast spells from inside your Raiders? Thought you needed LOS.. Just curious, as the Raiders aren't protecting much if you have to get out to cast.
Don't feel like pulling out my SW codex/faqs haha. I know 4thEd Eldrad/DA PFG got nerfed so they couldn't.
The only thing I can cast from within the LR's is Stormcaller to give surrounding LR's 5+ cover. Otherwise, yes, I need to expose them to risk if I want to cast any of their other psychic powers.
However, losing a 100-pt HQ in order to kill a 200-pt riptide or potentially more is well worth the risk.
It is important to note that you are not just risking the RP, but his entire squad as well for a 2/3 chance for killing a riptide. Since he and his pals cost roughly 200 pts this is of dubious worth.
Was the lone Guard player. Had a great time there with everyone and went W/L 1-2. Don’t want to spoil anything else until his finally report is up but safe to say if my army played his the only way I might of won was be clogging his Land Raiders tracks with dead bodies and even then I don’t think I had enough men.
hippesthippo wrote: Can you cast spells from inside your Raiders? Thought you needed LOS.. Just curious, as the Raiders aren't protecting much if you have to get out to cast.
Don't feel like pulling out my SW codex/faqs haha. I know 4thEd Eldrad/DA PFG got nerfed so they couldn't.
The only thing I can cast from within the LR's is Stormcaller to give surrounding LR's 5+ cover. Otherwise, yes, I need to expose them to risk if I want to cast any of their other psychic powers.
However, losing a 100-pt HQ in order to kill a 200-pt riptide or potentially more is well worth the risk.
It is important to note that you are not just risking the RP, but his entire squad as well for a 2/3 chance for killing a riptide. Since he and his pals cost roughly 200 pts this is of dubious worth.
Actually, I wouldn't disembark my troops if I am going to sacrifice one of my RP's. The scoring troops are much more valuable. The only time I would disembark them with my RP is if I feel they aren't in any real danger of getting wiped out by enemy retaliation or if I need to claim an objective.
You will see what I mean in my Game #2.
Panzer1944 wrote: Was the lone Guard player. Had a great time there with everyone and went W/L 1-2. Don’t want to spoil anything else until his finally report is up but safe if my army played his the only way I might of won was be clogging his Land Raiders tracks with dead bodies and even then I don’t think I had enough men.
Nice to meet you. Always cool to associate a face to the dakka persona. Your flyers looked really cool and that demolisher was actually scary to me. I was actually hoping that I didn't have to face your guards because my army isn't all that good in taking down flyers.
But yeah, my wolves would have probably been a bad matchup for your army as well. With all those guardsmen, I could've pulled out a lot of multi-assaults if I had to....but not before killing a lot of guardsmen with my shooting (TFC and whirlwind ignoring cover, TL-heavy bolters that reduce your cover by -1).
Actually, I wouldn't disembark my troops if I am going to sacrifice one of my RP's. The scoring troops are much more valuable. The only time I would disembark them with my RP is if I feel they aren't in any real danger of getting wiped out by enemy retaliation or if I need to claim an objective.
You will see what I mean in my Game #2.
I look foward to seeing that poor game # 2 sucker taste jaws.
I hope to see the crons as well. Normally I would say the crons are a nice match up for all that crazy metal. The Achilles has some nice rules but no protection from gauss, entropic strike or armorbane. Good thing is, only armorbane open to the list that will be played.
They do have a number of Forgeworld releases and FW is allowed in this tourney.
I hear the grot tanks are pretty good.
I was a little vague there. I was talking about Sisters who haven't had a new model in over a decade. Even if you count Forgeworld! Sisters are such a redheaded stepchild, people forget to mention them in the discussion about who is the redheaded stepchild!
The first round opponent did wait too long to get the bikes involved in the game. His lack of aggression made things easier.
I guess you might not have listed all the wargear, but that marine list has very little in the way of melta or melta bombs. That's surprising to me since even in the vehicle light 6th edition they are cheap options to deter mechanized lists from getting too close. The same weapons are also helpful against monster heavy lists so I'm not sure why you wouldn't bring some.
They do have a number of Forgeworld releases and FW is allowed in this tourney.
I hear the grot tanks are pretty good.
I was a little vague there. I was talking about Sisters who haven't had a new model in over a decade. Even if you count Forgeworld! Sisters are such a redheaded stepchild, people forget to mention them in the discussion about who is the redheaded stepchild!
sisters got avenger strike fighters and an exorcist thingy, the forgeworld tank, and a bunch of regalia and symbols for tanks and the like.....(ALL FORGEWORLD)
Interesting list... Would be interesting to see how it fares versus certain armies that can pop AV14... Dark eldar blaster spam, eldar with a Wraith Knight, Necrons have all the right tools, even the right Tau list could do it. Your small Grey Hunter squads I could see having some problems versus certain armies too. Hopefully you continued to get good match ups.
Valek wrote: Nice first game, altough i didn't expect much of fight. Lets see what game 2 brings you, i predict Crons...
Yup, it's crons alright....led by ImmotekhtheStormlord.
Roci wrote: I hope to see the crons as well. Normally I would say the crons are a nice match up for all that crazy metal. The Achilles has some nice rules but no protection from gauss, entropic strike or armorbane. Good thing is, only armorbane open to the list that will be played.
Actually, crons will have trouble unless they are running a scarab-farm. Wraiths and even the D-lord will have problems and you can't really rely on Gauss, at least not when you are running 5-man warrior units in night scythes. The moment they disembark, you can be sure that they are going to die.
They do have a number of Forgeworld releases and FW is allowed in this tourney.
I hear the grot tanks are pretty good.
I was a little vague there. I was talking about Sisters who haven't had a new model in over a decade. Even if you count Forgeworld! Sisters are such a redheaded stepchild, people forget to mention them in the discussion about who is the redheaded stepchild!
It's been a while since I've seen your sisters here at GK. You should drop on by. You'll get a lot of practice against the newer armies, including Chaos, Tau and eldar.
Solosam47 wrote: So badly wanna see some orkz against your list, even if they lose. Greenskins need love too.
Great first game tho, love the SW army set up and want to see how it fairs against those damned triptides
Sorry, no orks at the tournament, though nob bikers will probably work over my LR's real hard...assuming they can survive 3 Jaws.
I would love to crush.....I mean, play against one of the Tau players and especially triple riptides.
bogalubov wrote: The first round opponent did wait too long to get the bikes involved in the game. His lack of aggression made things easier.
I guess you might not have listed all the wargear, but that marine list has very little in the way of melta or melta bombs. That's surprising to me since even in the vehicle light 6th edition they are cheap options to deter mechanized lists from getting too close. The same weapons are also helpful against monster heavy lists so I'm not sure why you wouldn't bring some.
Yeah, experience will teach you to play for the objectives....though he may have been concerned about his bikers surviving if they head out too early.
He had 1 melta and 1 multi-melta to go along with the Icarus lascannon, vindicator, conversion beamer (potentially S10 AP1) and 8 krak missiles. Overall, his AT isn't bad. It's just not enough to deal with LR-spam.
I would normally take a less competitive list in casual play, but in a tournament, I need to make sure my TAC list is strong enough to compete against the more competitive lists as well. The thing is, my list is a rock-paper-scissors list. If you bring the right tools, you can probably beat me easily. If not, then you probably won't win. Here, I am betting that the current meta cannot deal with LR-spam.
Dozer Blades wrote: Interesting list... Would be interesting to see how it fares versus certain armies that can pop AV14... Dark eldar blaster spam, eldar with a Wraith Knight, Necrons have all the right tools, even the right Tau list could do it. Your small Grey Hunter squads I could see having some problems versus certain armies too. Hopefully you continued to get good match ups.
Then I would probably lose, though I wouldn't make it an easy game for my opponent. Honestly, I'm not too concerned about the wraithknight. 6 lascannons (of which 4 are twin-linked) and 3 multi-meltas (of which 2 are twin-linked) means I will have a good chance to kill him in 2 turns. Meanwhile, I'm not too concerned about elder shooting unless they are bringing fire dragons.
Tau definitely have the tools to deal with LR-spam. However, the dominant competitive Tau build currently does not emphasize S10 railguns anymore. Rather, the most you will probably see is 1 railgun, maybe a couple of S9 ion accelerators, perhaps 1 unit of suits with fusion and a bunch of S5-7 shooting.
They do have a number of Forgeworld releases and FW is allowed in this tourney.
I hear the grot tanks are pretty good.
I was a little vague there. I was talking about Sisters who haven't had a new model in over a decade. Even if you count Forgeworld! Sisters are such a redheaded stepchild, people forget to mention them in the discussion about who is the redheaded stepchild!
sisters got avenger strike fighters and an exorcist thingy, the forgeworld tank, and a bunch of regalia and symbols for tanks and the like.....(ALL FORGEWORLD)
I'm not sure I'd consider random bits of Imperial Navy things to be "new Sisters models". The Exorcist and Repressor are both old as crap. Maybe they were released within the last decade, but it's close.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jy2 wrote: It's been a while since I've seen your sisters here at GK. You should drop on by. You'll get a lot of practice against the newer armies, including Chaos, Tau and eldar.
Yeah, I don't think I've played a game since the Golden Throne GT last year. I've got a baby now so I've only got time for one hobby at the moment. I'm starting to feel that 40K itch though. which is why I'm back on Dakka.
Amerikon wrote: Yeah, I don't think I've played a game since the Golden Throne GT last year. I've got a baby now so I've only got time for one hobby at the moment. I'm starting to feel that 40K itch though. which is why I'm back on Dakka.
Congrats!
People, we have another 40k player here....in about 10 years.
Haywire Crypteks could pop them. I always ran 5 Gauss Immortals with a Cryptek in my Scythes. That way I could drive by melta and survive long enough tohop backinmyride.
hippesthippo wrote: Haywire Crypteks could pop them. I always ran 5 Gauss Immortals with a Cryptek in my Scythes. That way I could drive by melta and survive long enough tohop backinmyride.
Yeah. I'm actually thinking about changing up my necrons. Swap out 1 of my D-lords and some wraiths for Zandrekh and some storm-teks. But that is when I go back to my necrons....which may be a while.
Big Z is a BOSS. Throw him in with 10 Tesla Immortals and a teleporter.
Congrats on roundone. It's hard to fit in adequate means to deal with AV14 on top of everything else you see these days. Kudos for taking advantage. Gutsy move, but it has payed off so far!
Just so that you don't have to flip back and forth to see my list again.
Rune Priest Loki - Meltabombs - Jaws of the World Wolf, Murderous Hurricane Rune Priest Blackheart - Jaws of the World Wolf, Stormcaller Rune Priest Goldmoon - Boltgun - Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning
Land Raider Prometheus "Prometheus" - Multi-melta (Note - Elite selection)
Land Raider "Larry"
Land Raider Helios "Helios"
Land Raider Achilles "Achilles" - Seige Shield
1750 Necrons + Grey Knights
William aka ImotekhTheStormlord is a local player as well as one of my opponents from the BAO 2013. He was also my only loss at the BAO, where he also brought Grey Knights + Necrons. He may be young, but don't let his years fool you. He is deceptively good with his army. I must admit that I under-estimated his army at the BAO, which was one of the reasons that resulted in my loss (with the other being the dice). Time for some payback. Heh, heh....
His list is going off memory as I don't have a copy of it. Will, feel free to correct me with regards to your list.
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackles
Coteaz - Prescience, ?
5x Necron Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Necron Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Necron Warriors - Night Scythe
Tertiary (1-pt each): First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord
Actually, missions were altered slightly. The bonus points for Scouring Fast Attacks or Big Gun Heavy Supports actually count toward the Overall score and not the mission objectives. Thus, you can conceivably get up to 14-pts per game. I attribute this to a misunderstanding of the BAO rules, but it doesn't matter. I still aim to crush all my opponents.
William is going to have a hard time against my army. He just doesn't match up well against it. The only danger is the dreadknight and his Warlord, the Destroyer Lord. I can kill them easily enough however. Lascannons and meltas for the dreadknight. Jaws for the D-lord. After that, he's got nothing that can really hurt my raiders. Wraiths won't really bother them too much. Moreover, this is Big Guns. 3 of my land raiders are scoring. I can just sit on the objectives with them and if I can get the Relic into a raider, it's game over. The only chance my opponent has got is if he went 2nd and the game ends on 5 with him dropping them off on objectives. But with me winning the roll for Initiative, there goes that strategy as I choose to go 2nd. I see another potential blowout coming. What will be interesting to see is what type of resistance my opponent can put up.
PRE-GAME THOUGHTS: (by William)
*sigh* Unfortunately, Jim's was the one army in this tournament which I did not feel comfortable playing against. I had very few units that can actually damage the raiders, fewer still that have a reasonable chance of success. To make matters worse, 3/4 of the Land Raiders in this mission are SCORING, and they have the ability to tank shock any of my infantry units off the objectives. The Relic here is all but lost, he can simply park a raider on top of it for most of the game, and big guns is not looking too great either.
At first I considered an attempt to rush his raiders with my two most effective AT units( Dlord+Wraiths and Dreadknight), but he had more than enough lascannons and melta to put down the Dreadknight in a single turn and Jaws would make short work of my warlord and his pals. Clearly I would have to play a defensive game, so what could I do? My aim before deployment was as follows: To use the wraiths and Destroyer lord's threat bubble to keep the Land Raiders off of my Big Guns objectives for most of the game, while hopefully staying away from Jaws. Of the two objectives destined to be on my side, I intended to park one behind some LOS blocking cover, and I hoped Jim would place the other near my table edge. Turn 5, (banking on no turn 6) I should drop off my warriors to contest his Big Guns Objectives and the relic, while hopefully maintaining the integrity of my backfield objective. Up until that point my strategy would be to stall. I would reserve much of my force, feeding it to the guns of Jim's army piece by piece, trying to keep him occupied and off of my objectives.
All my carefully thought-out plans then promptly went to blazes when Jim won the roll-off and chose to go second, dashing my hopes for easy contesting on the rocks of shattered dreams . Now, assuming Jim did not pass out from heatstroke ( it was hellishly hot in the tourney room) or blunder horribly ( very unlikely), he could grind out a win with little difficulty.
I would have to hope for incredible dice luck to pull this one off.
Necron deployment. William deploys only his wraithstar and 2 Annihilation Barges. His AB's are on an objective behind the hill.
My deployment. I deploy very aggressively on my deployment edge.
My opponent tries to "persuade" me to steal the initiative, but I don't fall for those mind games. As a matter of fact, I'm usually the one who plays them.
Not much. He moves and then runs his wraiths back.
Space Wolves 1
Spoiler:
I move everything forwards 6" except Achilles, who moves 12" instead. I give my opponent a little bit of a break by disembarking Loki's unit.
The might of all my firepower kills 3 wraiths. Unfortunately, he passes his 1 initiative test against Jaws so I have disembarked the unit for nothing.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Thanks to his Warlord Trait (re-roll reserves), almost all of his reserves come in. Like a shark who smells blood in the water, necrons go after my exposed hunter unit.
Coteaz's unit crowd around his objective.
Wraiths advance.
Between the 2 night scythes, 1 annihilation barge snap-firing and the dreadknight heavy incinerator, he wipes out the entire unit, including Loki, for First Blood.
Space Wolves 2
Spoiler:
Just a minor setback is all. It still shouldn't change the outcome....I hope. I mobilize my LR's.
Have I learned my lesson? Nah....
You know who Rune Priest Goldmoon is going for, don't you? Hunters split off from Goldmoon and is insurance in case I don't kill the dreadknight.
It takes all of my firepower, but I manage to bring down his dreadknight.
That's +1VP because he is a heavy support.
More importantly, Jaws from Goldmoon takes out his Warlord.
Like I said, just a temporary setback is all.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
The rest of his reserves come in. Night scythe and shunting Interceptors go after my grey hunters.
Both of the nights scythes that were on the table fly off it.
Wraiths prepare for a possible multi-assault. AB's target Goldmoon.
Shooting from the 2 AB's, night scythe and interceptors kill Goldmoon and 4 hunters.
Wraiths then multi-assault my hunter and the raider. Smart play by my opponent. He only puts 1 wraith on the hunter. He's trying to not kill my hunter and to stay locked in combat so I can't shoot down his wraiths next turn.
But unfortunately for him, my lone hunter dies anyways. Wraiths consolidate back.
So far, my opponent is playing really well, taking advantage of whatever I give him. He's managed to wipe out 2 scoring units and 2 HQ's already. However, that's all he's going to get. Now that I've killed both of his threats to my land raiders, there really is no need for me to disembark except for the objectives.
Space Wolves 3
Spoiler:
Achilles tank shock forwards. I am going for my Heavy Supports.
The rest of my movement.
Shooting kills 1 wraith and put 1W on another. Achilles takes off 2 HP's from his AB and blows off its tesla-destructor
I only kill 2 interceptors. However, I do manage to blow away 1 night scythe. 2 more to go.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Both of his scythes come in on opposite flanks.
Wraiths, interceptors and AB's move.
Since shooting is just scratching paint, we go straight into assault. Assault turns out to be more of the same paint-scratching.
Space Wolves 4
Spoiler:
I move Achilles back while advancing Larry 6".
Hunters disembark. Helios then moves back 12" towards my objective.
Shooting takes out the interceptors, wraiths and 1 AB.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Night scythe drops off his troops to contest my objective. The sycthe then goes after the grey hunters.
His other scythe moves and drops off his troops to claim an objective. They can only snapfire since his scythe moved over 24".
Acolytes and AB advance.
Warriors come in to claim his objective.
Unfortunately for my opponent, his forward AB (the one closest to Achilles) immobilizes itself while trying to move flat-out.
Warriors and night scythe shoot at my wolves and kill 2. I pass morale.
Space Wolves 5
Spoiler:
So here's the situation. Currently, I am actually losing. No one has the Relic yet. My opponent has got 3 objectives and is contesting my 1 objective. There's actually a slight chance that, if a couple of dice doesn't go my way, I may actually lose!
Helios tank shocks the warriors to move them out of the way. However, they are still within contesting range so I don't have this objective yet.
Prometheus then prepares to gun them down.
My Warlord finally disembarks and goes to join the hunters, who prepare for assault.
Here, I need a good 6" move through difficult terrain in order to make it to the Relic....and I get it!
That should be game there.
The rest of my tanks move. Larry goes flat-out towards my opponent's objective.
Shooting only kills 2 warriors. However, they fail Morale and fall back before I get a chance to wipe them out in assault.
Prometheus kills 3 warriors and 1 gets back up. However, I forget about my Auspex reducing his cover by -1. Would have probably wiped them out.
Achilles takes out the immobilized AB for another +1 VP but cannot take out his last AB.
My opponent has got 1 objective as well for a push on Big Guns Never Tire.
However, I've got the Primary - the Relic - for 4-pts.
My opponent has First Blood (grey hunters) and Linebreaker (warriors) for a total of 2-pts. I've got the Relic (4-pts), Warlord, Linebreaker (land raider Larry) and 3 Heavy Support VP's (dreadknight, 2 AB's) for a total of 9-pts.
Another game going exactly as I expected. Barring extreme dice, my opponent's only real chance against my list was to go 2nd. When that didn't happen, he had almost no chance. However, William did play extremely well, taking advantage of whatever breaks I gave him. He actually made it a game until the very end. Had my wolves not made their 6" difficult terrain test to get to the Relic, we would have been tied with Primary and Secondary, with me winning the game only due to the Big Gun bonus points. I think that against any other army, he would have done alright. Unfortunately for him, he got the matchup that he didn't want.
Actually, I don't think anyone there wanted to play against my 4-LR list.
Coming up, there are only 4 unbeaten players. I believe Kevin (Janthkin) is at top with a perfect 20-pts. I'm pretty high up with 19-pts. Adam and his Triptide Tau is also 2-0 though one of his games was a close one. Lastly, we have Jason (z3n1st here on dakka) and his beautiful taudar with the Nightwing. Of the 3, I've played against and beaten both Adam and Kevin. Actually, I've beaten Jason as well a long time ago (in my very first tournament) but haven't played at all recently. I know Kevin didn't really wanted to play me, but I think the final matchup is going to be between my wolves and his Chaos Daemons/Chaos Space Marines.....assuming we are matched up by Battle Points. If not, then no worries. I don't see much here that can handle my raiders anyways.
hippesthippo wrote: Haywire Crypteks could pop them. I always ran 5 Gauss Immortals with a Cryptek in my Scythes. That way I could drive by melta and survive long enough tohop backinmyride.
Yeah. I'm actually thinking about changing up my necrons. Swap out 1 of my D-lords and some wraiths for Zandrekh and some storm-teks. But that is when I go back to my necrons....which may be a while.
I'm not a competitive player by any stretch of the imagination, but I do enjoy mathhammer (perhaps too much) ...
I love Stormteks. I think they're awesome tank killers and harassment units. However, it's important not to over-play their abilities. 5 necron warriors and one stormtek aren't super-reliable tank killers:
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle in one volley: 73% (92% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle with jink in one volley: 41% (65% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 4 hull point vehicle in one volley: 47% (77% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a soul grinder in one volley: 19% (40% with tank hunter)
There are a couple of things that compound these relatively low percentages. You don't have a guarantee of when they'll arrive. Chances are they won't be able to kill the tank in question the turn they do arrive (both the staff and rapid fire have a 12" range). Even if they arrive and are in range, the turn they arrive you can't give them tank hunter. The final nail in the coffin is the fact that if you fail, the unit will usually get wiped (leaving only the stormtek with a 1/3 chance of getting up).
Personally, I like to run a 3 man royal court (Veiltek + 2x Stormteks, 110 points). They're much better at killing tanks, assuming you can stick the landing:
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle in one volley: 92% (98% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle with jink in one volley: 64% (76% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 4 hull point vehicle in one volley: 77% (90% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a soul grinder in one volley: 39% (52% with tank hunter)
I like that you know they're on the table from turn 1 (ready to receive tank hunter), and you can deploy them hidden out of LoS. If your opponent has a tank they will often net you first blood, and if you fail to kill the tank one of them will probably get back up denying your opponent first blood (70% chance of at least one). The unit is also quite annoying, and has to be answered. And even if only one Stormtek gets back up, sometimes he can leg it towards a second tank for some extra damage. A side bonus is that from time to time the veiltek will survive, which is great for late game contesting.
Personally, I'm a bit afraid of soul grinders, so I'm toying wiht the idea of running three or even four stormteks. I also play Tau a lot, so the stormtek volume of fire can actually sometimes take a firewarrior squad. The squad's also pretty flexible, in that you can throw the Overlord in the unit for added fun, of even a destroyer lord just to put the fear in your opponent's heart.
Part of the advantage of this unit is that it screws with your opponent's mind (consistent with Jys's positional dominance ideas, I suppose). People won't push forward as hard when they need to deal with a threat at home (even an inexpensive 110 point threat that keeps getting back up again).
Tbh, that is where Immothek's list is flawed. You don't need haywire teks but most have enough Wraiths/Double Dlord to make a threat to heavy armour. He will make a mess however of most other lists!!
The knigh while able yes needs to shunt or try to come closer without much protection. So indeed only the wraith unit is primary threat.
Howeveri only see a minor victory happening if he plays conservative, you don't have the push nor numbers to go play a aggressive strategy...
Well, it just so happens Necron lists have about a million other sources of s7 shooting to take the last hp off if needed. AV14 really isnt that popular. Lastly, what are the odds of a unit with 2 meltaguns destroying a tank? Exactly.
Having the option to keep the court intact does come in handy, but 99% of the time you're not gonna need to do that.
Back on topic, best of luck Will, looks like you'll need it!
*sigh* Unfortunately, Jim's was the one army in this tournament which I did not feel comfortable playing against. I had very few units that can actually damage the raiders, fewer still that have a reasonable chance of success. To make matters worse, 3/4 of the Land Raiders in this mission are SCORING, and they have the ability to tank shock any of my infantry units off the objectives. The Relic here is all but lost, he can simply park a raider on top of it for most of the game, and big guns is not looking too great either.
At first I considered an attempt to rush his raiders with my two most effective AT units( Dlord+Wraiths and Dreadknight), but he had more than enough lascannons and melta to put down the Dreadknight in a single turn and Jaws would make short work of my warlord and his pals. Clearly I would have to play a defensive game, so what could I do? My aim before deployment was as follows: To use the wraiths and Destroyer lord's threat bubble to keep the Land Raiders off of my Big Guns objectives for most of the game, while hopefully staying away from Jaws. Of the two objectives destined to be on my side, I intended to park one behind some LOS blocking cover, and I hoped Jim would place the other near my table edge. Turn 5, (banking on no turn 6) I should drop off my warriors to contest his Big Guns Objectives and the relic, while hopefully maintaining the integrity of my backfield objective. Up until that point my strategy would be to stall. I would reserve much of my force, feeding it to the guns of Jim's army piece by piece, trying to keep him occupied and off of my objectives.
All my carefully thought-out plans then promptly went to blazes when Jim won the roll-off and chose to go second, dashing my hopes for easy contesting on the rocks of shattered dreams . Now, assuming Jim did not pass out from heatstroke ( it was hellishly hot in the tourney room) or blunder horribly ( very unlikely), he could grind out a win with little difficulty.
I would have to hope for incredible dice luck to pull this one off.
hippesthippo wrote: Haywire Crypteks could pop them. I always ran 5 Gauss Immortals with a Cryptek in my Scythes. That way I could drive by melta and survive long enough tohop backinmyride.
Yeah. I'm actually thinking about changing up my necrons. Swap out 1 of my D-lords and some wraiths for Zandrekh and some storm-teks. But that is when I go back to my necrons....which may be a while.
I'm not a competitive player by any stretch of the imagination, but I do enjoy mathhammer (perhaps too much) ...
I love Stormteks. I think they're awesome tank killers and harassment units. However, it's important not to over-play their abilities. 5 necron warriors and one stormtek aren't super-reliable tank killers:
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle in one volley: 73% (92% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle with jink in one volley: 41% (65% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 4 hull point vehicle in one volley: 47% (77% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a soul grinder in one volley: 19% (40% with tank hunter)
There are a couple of things that compound these relatively low percentages. You don't have a guarantee of when they'll arrive. Chances are they won't be able to kill the tank in question the turn they do arrive (both the staff and rapid fire have a 12" range). Even if they arrive and are in range, the turn they arrive you can't give them tank hunter. The final nail in the coffin is the fact that if you fail, the unit will usually get wiped (leaving only the stormtek with a 1/3 chance of getting up).
Personally, I like to run a 3 man royal court (Veiltek + 2x Stormteks, 110 points). They're much better at killing tanks, assuming you can stick the landing:
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle in one volley: 92% (98% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle with jink in one volley: 64% (76% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 4 hull point vehicle in one volley: 77% (90% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a soul grinder in one volley: 39% (52% with tank hunter)
I like that you know they're on the table from turn 1 (ready to receive tank hunter), and you can deploy them hidden out of LoS. If your opponent has a tank they will often net you first blood, and if you fail to kill the tank one of them will probably get back up denying your opponent first blood (70% chance of at least one). The unit is also quite annoying, and has to be answered. And even if only one Stormtek gets back up, sometimes he can leg it towards a second tank for some extra damage. A side bonus is that from time to time the veiltek will survive, which is great for late game contesting.
Personally, I'm a bit afraid of soul grinders, so I'm toying wiht the idea of running three or even four stormteks. I also play Tau a lot, so the stormtek volume of fire can actually sometimes take a firewarrior squad. The squad's also pretty flexible, in that you can throw the Overlord in the unit for added fun, of even a destroyer lord just to put the fear in your opponent's heart.
Part of the advantage of this unit is that it screws with your opponent's mind (consistent with Jys's positional dominance ideas, I suppose). People won't push forward as hard when they need to deal with a threat at home (even an inexpensive 110 point threat that keeps getting back up again).
Nice to know. Thanks for the tips.
Valek wrote: Tbh, that is where Immothek's list is flawed. You don't need haywire teks but most have enough Wraiths/Double Dlord to make a threat to heavy armour. He will make a mess however of most other lists!!
The knigh while able yes needs to shunt or try to come closer without much protection. So indeed only the wraith unit is primary threat.
Howeveri only see a minor victory happening if he plays conservative, you don't have the push nor numbers to go play a aggressive strategy...
Yeah, one of my weaknesses is that I can only be in so many locations at a time. If I want to disembark my troops, I can only move 6" with my tanks. Thus, with this type of list, you really need to plan ahead, not like necrons who can just drop off troops anywhere on the last turn. There is a good chance that he can tie on Big Guns...that is, if he can survive my counter-attack since I am going 2nd. That means his troops still need to survive 1 turn of shooting + possible assault and not get tank shocked off the objective.
hippesthippo wrote: Well, it just so happens Necron lists have about a million other sources of s7 shooting to take the last hp off if needed. AV14 really isnt that popular. Lastly, what are the odds of a unit with 2 meltaguns destroying a tank? Exactly.
Having the option to keep the court intact does come in handy, but 99% of the time you're not gonna need to do that.
Back on topic, best of luck Will, looks like you'll need it!
This is precisely what I had in mind when I designed this list. The majority of shooting nowadays in a competitive build is S6/7. There may be a few meltaguns here and there, but most people have traded in a substantial number of their meltas for plasmas. Lances are definitely a concern, but with the exception of venom-spam (i.e. Frankie's army), most eldar players don't spam them, opting for S6/7 shooting instead.
My biggest concerns was Bobby's triple-dreadknight Draigowing w/hammerdins army, necron scarab-farm, IG with vendettas/manticores and probably FMC-spam, none of which showed up at the tournament.
hippesthippo wrote: Haywire Crypteks could pop them. I always ran 5 Gauss Immortals with a Cryptek in my Scythes. That way I could drive by melta and survive long enough tohop backinmyride.
Yeah. I'm actually thinking about changing up my necrons. Swap out 1 of my D-lords and some wraiths for Zandrekh and some storm-teks. But that is when I go back to my necrons....which may be a while.
I'm not a competitive player by any stretch of the imagination, but I do enjoy mathhammer (perhaps too much) ...
I love Stormteks. I think they're awesome tank killers and harassment units. However, it's important not to over-play their abilities. 5 necron warriors and one stormtek aren't super-reliable tank killers:
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle in one volley: 73% (92% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle with jink in one volley: 41% (65% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 4 hull point vehicle in one volley: 47% (77% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a soul grinder in one volley: 19% (40% with tank hunter)
There are a couple of things that compound these relatively low percentages. You don't have a guarantee of when they'll arrive. Chances are they won't be able to kill the tank in question the turn they do arrive (both the staff and rapid fire have a 12" range). Even if they arrive and are in range, the turn they arrive you can't give them tank hunter. The final nail in the coffin is the fact that if you fail, the unit will usually get wiped (leaving only the stormtek with a 1/3 chance of getting up).
Personally, I like to run a 3 man royal court (Veiltek + 2x Stormteks, 110 points). They're much better at killing tanks, assuming you can stick the landing:
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle in one volley: 92% (98% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 3 hull point vehicle with jink in one volley: 64% (76% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a 4 hull point vehicle in one volley: 77% (90% with tank hunter)
Chances to kill a soul grinder in one volley: 39% (52% with tank hunter)
I like that you know they're on the table from turn 1 (ready to receive tank hunter), and you can deploy them hidden out of LoS. If your opponent has a tank they will often net you first blood, and if you fail to kill the tank one of them will probably get back up denying your opponent first blood (70% chance of at least one). The unit is also quite annoying, and has to be answered. And even if only one Stormtek gets back up, sometimes he can leg it towards a second tank for some extra damage. A side bonus is that from time to time the veiltek will survive, which is great for late game contesting.
Personally, I'm a bit afraid of soul grinders, so I'm toying wiht the idea of running three or even four stormteks. I also play Tau a lot, so the stormtek volume of fire can actually sometimes take a firewarrior squad. The squad's also pretty flexible, in that you can throw the Overlord in the unit for added fun, of even a destroyer lord just to put the fear in your opponent's heart.
Part of the advantage of this unit is that it screws with your opponent's mind (consistent with Jys's positional dominance ideas, I suppose). People won't push forward as hard when they need to deal with a threat at home (even an inexpensive 110 point threat that keeps getting back up again).
I feel like I'm missing something, why is it so unlikely to kill a soulgrinder? Sure it's just a 4HP vehicle with jink?
pretre wrote: The space wolf list is pretty hilarious. Can't wait to see the rest of the games.
Yeah, unusual isn't it? When you think of LR-spam, you often think Blood Angels or Black Templars. With long fangs and TWC, who in their right mind would run SWLR-spam?!?
CaptainJay wrote: I feel like I'm missing something, why is it so unlikely to kill a soulgrinder? Sure it's just a 4HP vehicle with jink?
It could be worse because of all the buffs that daemons can put on him. Tzeetch units re-roll 1's on their saves. You can also put Forewarning and the Grimoire on the grinders for up to a 2++ re-rollable save!
.. Allow me to clarify. Mech isn't dead. You need something in your army that can deal with high AV effectively. Melta, and melta-equivalents (haywire), are an example.
MC Smash, Railguns, Zoanthropes, etc. If you want to build a balanced list, you must have a plan in place for dealing with AV14. Otherwise, you risk losing to a relatively crummy spoiler army simply because you traded out all your melta for plasma.
BTW, if you can kill 3/4 Land Raiders, you'll prolly win.. So I'm not too worried about the single melta-proof Raider.
Jim took a smart gamble and it paid off. Prolly won't work again at the same store
My last game of the day wasn't against Kevin and his ever-dangerous Chaos Daemons/Chaos Space Marines. Instead, it was against Jason (aka z3n1st here on dakka) and his Eldar-Tau alliance. While many would call that Taudar, the "true" eldar players prefer to call themselves Eldau. I think that is also a great way to greet people: "eldau you do?" In any case, I've been having horrible luck against the new eldar recently, losing to Blackmoor once and to Grant Theft Auto (the Tournament Organizer, BTW) twice and only managing to tie with Reece despite bringing a triple-heldrake list. Could this be the end of my losing streak? Let us begin....
1750 Quad Pro Quo Space Wolves
Just so that you don't have to flip back and forth to see my list again.
Rune Priest Loki - Meltabombs - Jaws of the World Wolf, Murderous Hurricane Rune Priest Blackheart - Jaws of the World Wolf, Stormcaller Rune Priest Goldmoon - Boltgun - Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning
Land Raider Prometheus "Prometheus" - Multi-melta (Note - Elite selection)
Land Raider "Larry"
Land Raider Helios "Helios"
Land Raider Achilles "Achilles" - Seige Shield
1750 Eldar + Tau
My opponent Jason, known as z3n1st here on the forums, is not a regular 40K'er here at our LGS, at least not when I'm around. In all my times there, I have never played against him. However, this is not our first encounter. I've actually played against him before in my very first RTT here at the Kastle. Ironically, I also brought space wolves to that tournament and was able to eke out a victory against his mech-guards.
Tertiary (1-pt each): First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord
Actually, missions were altered slightly. The bonus points for Scouring Fast Attacks or Big Gun Heavy Supports actually count toward the Overall score and not the mission objectives. Thus, you can conceivably get up to 14-pts per game. I attribute this to a misunderstanding of the BAO rules, but it doesn't matter. I still aim to crush all my opponents.
I'm not too concerned about his list. His only AT is the Nightwing and the Riptide (with only 1 S9 blast). Otherwise, the most he can do is to try to glance my tanks to death. What I am concerned about, however, are his jetbikes. Basically, he can just zip to objectives to claim/contest at will on Turn 5 and there really isn't too much I can do about it besides to hope the game doesn't end. Killing them will be a tall order since he will most likely reserve them and hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain. Even though I don't foresee him really doing much to my army, if he plays his cards right, Jason just may steal this one. My advantage is my resiliency. His is his mobility....and the fact that he is going 2nd in a multiple-objectives game.
PRE-GAME THOUGHTS: (by Jason)
It had been years since I played against Jim and his puppies, and the last time we met the Eldar were forced to retreat. I knew Jim was a solid player, and I was going to have a rough game if I faced him. Then I saw his list *gulp*. Now statistically I should be able to glance one raider a turn to death, or near death (9 shots TL, with Tankhunter), however in my practice games that never really happened against my friends Russ so yeah…it was going to be a tough fight. Hopefully the Riptide and Nightwing can pick up the slack if the Reapers don’t quite pull their load. I had Jim on maneuverability, but that doesn’t mean much if I can’t crack those turtle shells as he will simply drive close to negate my psychic powers and shoot me down with his big guns. My biggest hope is to stall his advance and surround him so that he can’t focus his fire using terrain/his own big tanks to block his shooting.
Space wolf deployment. I deploy slightly to the right due to the objectives.
Eldau deployment. He joins the Tau Commander, farseer and spiritseer to the dark reapers.
That is going to be 1 nasty unit. His shooting ignores cover and his guns are twin-linked due to the Commander (or to Guide/Prescience). He re-rolls armour penetration because his Commander has Tank Hunter. If he even looks at my guys outside of my LR, they are dead for sure. In order to survive their shooting, I need to keep my troops out of his LOS.
Finally, he deploys 1 unit of jetbikes in the middle terrain and out of LOS.
Spiders are deepstriking. Kroots and war walkers outflanking. 3 jetbikes will be coming in from his board edge.
My opponent then tries to Seize but fails. Darn it....I was hoping that he would pass.
Achilles and Prometheus move 12" The other 2 LR's only 6". Blackheart actually fails to cast Stormcaller.
Prometheus searchlights his unit. I fire everything and the kitchen sink at his reapers but his saves are red hot. Eldau only loses 1 reaper when all is said and done.
Eldau 1
Spoiler:
Eldau movement. Oh, they moved? Farseer and spiritseer casts their psychic powers (they would do this every turn). Now I am looking at reapers with 2+ cover due to Conceal and all their shooting is essentially twin-linked.
Wowsers...what the hell just happened?!?
Reapers fire at Achilles and glances it to death thanks to Tank Hunters. First Blood to Jason.
Riptide nova-charges and immobilizes my Helios!
It feels like I just got socked in the guts....
Space Wolves 2
Spoiler:
Prometheus zooms 12" forwards. Larry moves 6". Blackheart's unit goes to hide behind the wreck, making sure to stay within 6" of both LR's so that they can benefit from Stormcaller.
Despite 2+ cover (reduced to 3+ against Prometheus), I manage to kill 4 reapers this turn. Unit passes morale however.
Eldau 2
Spoiler:
Spiders come in.
Actually, almost his entire army comes in all at once. Walkers and kroots come in on my side.
Guess what? He kills another land raider, Prometheus this time and with the Nightwing.
Torrent by his reapers and spiders then wipes out Loki and his unit.
Mofo! Riptide nova-charges and immobilizes my last raider, Larry!!!
So in 2 turns of shooting, he has neutralized all 4 of my raiders with hardly any AT. That has got to be one of the greatest displays of shooting I have ever seen or experienced!
Honestly, I am in shock.
Spiders then jump out of LOS in the assault phase.
Space Wolves 3
Spoiler:
Ah hell....if I am going down, I'm going to go down swinging. Never say never.
I disembark my guys. They're not going to do me much good cooped up in those deathtraps anyways.
My opponent has some hot saves. Living Lightning, bolt guns, 1 plasma gun and all my land raider lascannons fire at his walkers. I am expecting to wipe them out. Instead, I only kill 1 and take off 1 HP from another.
Eldau 3
Spoiler:
Eldau movement. It is just a matter of whether I can survive now.
Warp spiders teleport an astounding 15" to go after my Warlord's unit.
Shooting wipes out all the grey hunters from my Warlord Blackheart's unit. War walkers shoot down 2 hunters from my other unit (Goldmoon's).
Spiders then try to get away.
Space Wolves 4
Spoiler:
I have no hope of winning. I am just trying to fight for a little respectability. Hunters go after the kroots. My other hunters go after my Emperor's Will objective. BTW, the Nightwing is still there. We just removed it so that I can move my guys around without risk to the model itself.
Blackheart makes it into 1 of the immobilized LR's to preserve my Warlord.
1 walker with 1HP remains after my shooting. However, I lose my plasma-gunner to Gets Hot!.
Helios whirlwind launcher kills 4 kroots. Doh! I only needed to kill 1 more to force morale.
Eldau 4
Spoiler:
This will be the last turn due to time.
Jetbikes come in and they are turbo-boost to all the objectives.
Spiders move and shooting kills all but Goldmoon.
He also wipes out my other unit of grey hunters near my Emperor's Will objective.
So Jason has got all 3 Crusade objectives.
He's also got his Emperor's Will objective as well as First Blood (Achilles).
I can't even get a single point. Shut-out for the wolves as Eldau wins it 8-0.
Jim's force had me worried, I felt pretty confident that I could take out two LR by the games end, but I really needed to stall him on the advance. I won the roll off and forced him to go first so that he would be forced to deploy centrally or to one flank, then I tried to steal the initiative so that I could hopefully drop the ION ordinance down on his huddled LRs, (even though it was in my advantage to take the last turn due to objectives), although I managed to do the same thing essentially by going second. The way his LRs ended up behind the wreck hampered LOS from some of his guns to my Fire Base, allowing me to continue firing (seeing the top of his raiders), but minimized what was shot back in the same direction.
I had to stall him away from my lines because my force was designed to crumble to HTH (so that targets could be immediately shot at on my turn), but if he got too close with the protection of the LRs with his Puppies, or if I lasted through his turn in HTH he would quickly kill off my armor platted goldfish and faerie vulcans on my turn and be lined up for the next kill. It worked out for the best when the Nightwing came in and shot up the black LR on turn two (destroying it) and the Riptide immobilized the last one, behind his lead tank which was now a wreck. That securely forced him away from my lines with no chance of making it across that gap unscathed.
For the Tournament they were easily my MVP each and every game, wiping out pretty much whatever they were pointed at.
Either 9 Str8 TL/TankHunters or 18 Str5AP3 TLMEQ death
each time ignoring cover, it was gross. The unit is expensive (342 pts) plus the commander for another 137, then add the Spirit Seer for 70 more, and BAM you are sitting on a 500+ unit, but wow what a tough nut to crack it is.
Put it on your back line and then only their heavy weapons are going to threaten it and even then you are probably getting a 2+ save, and if your farseer gets fortune, they are never going to kill it.
My first two opponents were the BAO winner in the first game with the Slanneshi Rush army, and the second game was against the IG dual blob with 4 flyers.
Each one of my opponents were outstanding players, with great tactics and tough armies. Top that off with fun to play against, and the wins really became secondary for me in terms of what I walked away with after that tournament.
Thanks Jy2 for a great report/game and if you two are reading, Liz and Bill for those first games as well.
POST-GAME/TOURNAMENT THOUGHTS: (by jy2)
Spoiler:
This just goes to show that there are no auto-wins in 40K. No matter how bad or good a matchup is, there is always a fighting chance for the underdog. This game was just one of those games were everything went right for one army and nothing went right for the other army. Not much you can do about that but to shrug it off and move on. In this game, Jason's shooting was just golden. Almost anything he shot at, he incapacited. That was just some unbelievably efficient shooting. Congrats to a good game for my opponent. I shall have vengeance another day.
Kevin's Chaos ended up going against Adam's Triptide Tau and that was another dominating game similar to mine. In that game, it seemed like everything went right for Kevin. He got the right powers (Invisibility, Puppet Master) and he dominated. He cast Puppet Master on a riptide and used him to wipe out the Ethereal's unit. He cast Invisibility on his heldrake and/or his seekers for 2+ cover. Basically, he nearly tabled Tau for max points.
Kevin ended up 1st going 3-0 with a maximum possible 30-pts. Jason and his Eldau was 2nd also going 3-0 but with less battle points. 3rd was William (my Game #2 opponent) and his NecroKnights. Although he lost to me, the 2-pts he got in his lost edged him over me and my 0-pt loss. I ended up 4th out of 16. Still top 25% but still disappointing to me. Honestly, after looking at the field of armies, I was expecting to take it all. But alas, it just wasn't meant to be, at least not that day.
Well, hoped you guys enjoy my reports. You guys are going to be in for a treat. Next tournament coming up, the ATC in August. See you then.
That Eldar Army is very well painted. If I had to make a prediction, pretending I didn't already know how it ended, I would say that eldar just cannot take out the land raiders fast enough to win this game.
I'm not too concerned about his list. His only AT is the Nightwing and the Riptide (with only 1 S9 blast). Otherwise, the most he can do is to try to glance my tanks to death. What I am concerned about, however, are his jetbikes. Basically, he can just zip to objectives to claim/contest at will on Turn 5 and there really isn't too much I can do about it besides to hope the game doesn't end. Killing them will be a tall order since he will most likely reserve them and hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain. Even though I don't foresee him really doing much to my army, if he plays his cards right, Jason just may steal this one. My advantage is my resiliency. His is his mobility....and the fact that he is going 2nd in a multiple-objectives game.
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. My prediction is you will win unless he gets really lucky versus your land raiders.
9 S8 shots that are twin-linked (Guide), have Tank Hunter and ignore cover can take out Land Raiders decently well, it just comes down to how many 6s he rolls so perhaps the Reapers can pull it out for him unless Jy2 is smart and kills the reapers dead. I think taking Iridium Armor on the Commander to tank shots for the Reapers would have been a good investment, though. Will be interesting to see how things turn out!
Yea but he needs to keep the DR alive. They can move and shoot now so they should get the first strike but that Prometheus and Achilles should be target number one and two.
hippesthippo wrote: If only Codex Land Raiders had that kind of variety/firepower... Oh, how I wish CSM Raiders had PotMS. :(
Let this be a lesson; don't leave home without some melta.
Yeah, without PotMS and without Forgeworld raiders, it is harder to build a balanced army with LR-spam. Blood Angels are probably the only army that can do it well with just regular codex LR's.
hippesthippo wrote: .. Allow me to clarify. Mech isn't dead. You need something in your army that can deal with high AV effectively. Melta, and melta-equivalents (haywire), are an example.
MC Smash, Railguns, Zoanthropes, etc. If you want to build a balanced list, you must have a plan in place for dealing with AV14. Otherwise, you risk losing to a relatively crummy spoiler army simply because you traded out all your melta for plasma.
BTW, if you can kill 3/4 Land Raiders, you'll prolly win.. So I'm not too worried about the single melta-proof Raider.
Jim took a smart gamble and it paid off. Prolly won't work again at the same store
Yeah, there's a lot of ways to deal with LR's. It's just that the current meta is maybe 1 LR at most. Most players have reduced their anti-heavy armor capabilities due to the shift in the meta to more foot-based armies as well as flyers and that was what I was anticipating. And it almost worked too.
mortetvie wrote: 9 S8 shots that are twin-linked (Guide), have Tank Hunter and ignore cover can take out Land Raiders decently well, it just comes down to how many 6s he rolls so perhaps the Reapers can pull it out for him unless Jy2 is smart and kills the reapers dead. I think taking Iridium Armor on the Commander to tank shots for the Reapers would have been a good investment, though. Will be interesting to see how things turn out!
It turned out to be better than I thought but honestly, his dice was way above average. Even with re-rolls to hit and on the armor pen, he would average at most 2 glances.
With 2+ cover due to Conceal, you really don't need your commander tanking shots even though he could do it.
Dozer Blades wrote: Death Reapers are obviously the first and foremost target for jy2.
Yeah. Too bad I couldn't do too much against them even with my alpha strike before they had time to cast their psychic powers.
Yea that was one of those games where it was basically over turn 1. One wrecked LR plus another behind it immoblized it, yea that hurt. Eldar Turn 2 just sealed the deal.
I have had a lot of luck myself with the tau command with the chip glancing vehicles to death. I played against an armored list for Dark angels once, he had 2 LRs and 3 vehicles with armor 13 and killed all the AV 13 with glancing hits from tank hunting missile pods.
Lol. I'm sure a lot of eldar players are pleased with the results.
As well as people who hate playing against LR's.
I mean the tourny as a whole. Your list probably got everyone by surprise, and I'm sure everyone of your opponents crapped themselves when they saw it. You played well with a gimmicky list, and I enjoyed reading the whole thing. To add sugar to it, the Eldar won!
I might be wrong, but I think the Reapers average 3 hull points a turn against armor 14. 9 shots twin-linked and rerolling armor pens. That would mean 4 sixes would just be a little above average, but not much.
When the riptide nova charges the ion gun, doesn't it become str 9 and ordnance? That would give it two rolls for armor pen and take the highest. Not the worst thing to use against Land Raiders.
Elite armies always suffer from dice swings and the more games you play the higher the chance you will suffer from a dice swing.
On that first turn of shooting against the Dark Reapers, did he make 5/6 saves? The dice in the picture show 5 saves out of 6 dice. If that was the case his dice would not have been hot. He beat the average by only one.
DarthDiggler wrote: I might be wrong, but I think the Reapers average 3 hull points a turn against armor 14. 9 shots twin-linked and rerolling armor pens. That would mean 4 sixes would just be a little above average, but not much.
When the riptide nova charges the ion gun, doesn't it become str 9 and ordnance? That would give it two rolls for armor pen and take the highest. Not the worst thing to use against Land Raiders.
Elite armies always suffer from dice swings and the more games you play the higher the chance you will suffer from a dice swing.
On that first turn of shooting against the Dark Reapers, did he make 5/6 saves? The dice in the picture show 5 saves out of 6 dice. If that was the case his dice would not have been hot. He beat the average by only one.
No, those dice didn't represent his saves. That was because each LR fired separately and the saves were taken separately. First the Prometheus with 6 TL-shots and 6 TL-snap-shots, the the thunderfire cannon via PotMS, and then the Whirlwind and 4 TL-lascannons (against 4+ cover for the lascannons).
I killed 1 DR on Turn 1 so that means only 9 guys firing back. Twin-linked BS4 means that 8 hits. Re-roll armor pen = 2.4 glances.
Riptide was shooting like crazy. 2 S9 shots resulting in 2 immobilized land raiders? All I've got to say to that is: Wow! Nice shooting!
A quick question if I may? In your game against the Necron, you used Jaws to take out the Necron Warlord, but from the picture it doesn't look like you had LoS.
Has Jaws lost the requirement of LoS to an enemy model?
Cheers
Andrew
PS I may be remembering an earlier edition rules here.
AndrewC wrote: A quick question if I may? In your game against the Necron, you used Jaws to take out the Necron Warlord, but from the picture it doesn't look like you had LoS.
Has Jaws lost the requirement of LoS to an enemy model?
Cheers
Andrew
PS I may be remembering an earlier edition rules here.
I had LOS. I checked carefully and was able to see his head because he was a somewhat tall model on his base.
Great reports again, Jim. I like the list. Great gamble for a small event. Game 3, however, really demonstrated the risk of putting all your eggs in one(4) basket(s).
Kudos to Jason. Going in knowing he had a tough matchup, he was able to formulate a plan and stick to it, never faltering along the way. It shows that with a good plan any matchup can be won with a little luck.
Jim's force had me worried, I felt pretty confident that I could take out two LR by the games end, but I really needed to stall him on the advance. I won the roll off and forced him to go first so that he would be forced to deploy centrally or to one flank, then I tried to steal the initiative so that I could hopefully drop the ION ordinance down on his huddled LRs, (even though it was in my advantage to take the last turn due to objectives), although I managed to do the same thing essentially by going second. The way his LRs ended up behind the wreck hampered LOS from some of his guns to my Fire Base, allowing me to continue firing (seeing the top of his raiders), but minimized what was shot back in the same direction.
I had to stall him away from my lines because my force was designed to crumble to HTH (so that targets could be immediately shot at on my turn), but if he got too close with the protection of the LRs with his Puppies, or if I lasted through his turn in HTH he would quickly kill off my armor platted goldfish and faerie vulcans on my turn and be lined up for the next kill. It worked out for the best when the Nightwing came in and shot up the black LR on turn two (destroying it) and the Riptide immobilized the last one, behind his lead tank which was now a wreck. That securely forced him away from my lines with no chance of making it across that gap unscathed.
For the Tournament they were easily my MVP each and every game, wiping out pretty much whatever they were pointed at.
Either 9 Str8 TL/TankHunters or 18 Str5AP3 TLMEQ death
each time ignoring cover, it was gross. The unit is expensive (342 pts) plus the commander for another 137, then add the Spirit Seer for 70 more, and BAM you are sitting on a 500+ unit, but wow what a tough nut to crack it is.
Put it on your back line and then only their heavy weapons are going to threaten it and even then you are probably getting a 2+ save, and if your farseer gets fortune, they are never going to kill it.
My first two opponents were the BAO winner in the first game with the Slanneshi Rush army, and the second game was against the IG dual blob with 4 flyers.
Each one of my opponents were outstanding players, with great tactics and tough armies. Top that off with fun to play against, and the wins really became secondary for me in terms of what I walked away with after that tournament.
Thanks Jy2 for a great report/game and if you two are reading, Liz and Bill for those first games as well.
While I like the quad raider list i feel there are other armies that would be a better choice such CSM. So many points were sunk into the land raiders that the squads inside were basically nothing more than place holders for objective grabbing with JAWS thrown in for good measure. On top of that JAWS will struggle versus high initiative armies such as eldar. I think cutting back to two to three land raiders and investing the spare points into stronger units would have been a lot better approach for this type of list. Dark Angels probably also would have been a better choice for the parent list.
Dozer Blades wrote: While I like the quad raider list i feel there are other armies that would be a better choice such CSM. So many points were sunk into the land raiders that the squads inside were basically nothing more than place holders for objective grabbing with JAWS thrown in for good measure. On top of that JAWS will struggle versus high initiative armies such as eldar. I think cutting back to two to three land raiders and investing the spare points into stronger units would have been a lot better approach for this type of list. Dark Angels probably also would have been a better choice for the parent list.
I think Jy2 wanted the psychic nullification that comes with the rune priest.
DarthDiggler wrote: I might be wrong, but I think the Reapers average 3 hull points a turn against armor 14. 9 shots twin-linked and rerolling armor pens. That would mean 4 sixes would just be a little above average, but not much.
When the riptide nova charges the ion gun, doesn't it become str 9 and ordnance? That would give it two rolls for armor pen and take the highest. Not the worst thing to use against Land Raiders.
Elite armies always suffer from dice swings and the more games you play the higher the chance you will suffer from a dice swing.
On that first turn of shooting against the Dark Reapers, did he make 5/6 saves? The dice in the picture show 5 saves out of 6 dice. If that was the case his dice would not have been hot. He beat the average by only one.
Indeed, people underestimate Reapers/Tau Commander and I think the Eldar army had the tools for sure. That is why if I ever see that combo across from me, I will cringe (and plan on using it myself as often as possible). The Nightwing can get what, 2 Brightlances or something crazy like that? So ultimately, between the Reapers/Riptide/Nightwing, Eldar with tau fodder (I'm sure Tau are merely tools to the Eldar) had a very good chance to destroy 1-2 Land Raiders a turn IMO. All in all, I would have tried to get within 24" asap of his Reapers to try to block some of those powers and maybe try to engage them in combat but it seemed like the dice were just not helping JY2 any lol! Poor Achilies =(. At least it did better than the movie Troy!?
Wow I didn't expect those Eldar to wipe the floor with the Land Raiders that swiftly. The more batreps I see of new Eldar the more they scare me actually.. Every single time I see what faces them and think, that should be close... And somehow the Eldar always do better than I expected from seeing the lists.
I chuckled as I kept looking at Jim’s opponent in round 2 and 3 as I apparently was the stepping stone to play him. Round one against Will and his Necron Grey Knights, and then round two against Jason with his Eldar and Tau. Great tournament and I do look forward to another one down the line and continuing reading up on Jim exploits.
Thanks for the game and congrats on your finish. That is quite an impressive feat you pulled off, offing 2 GT winners in a single tournament. Lol.
I will use your comments as your Post-game.
hippesthippo wrote: Great reports again, Jim. I like the list. Great gamble for a small event. Game 3, however, really demonstrated the risk of putting all your eggs in one(4) basket(s).
Kudos to Jason. Going in knowing he had a tough matchup, he was able to formulate a plan and stick to it, never faltering along the way. It shows that with a good plan any matchup can be won with a little luck.
Thanks. Yeah, I took something that no one was expecting and almost pulled it off. Alas, it just wasn't meant to be.
Congrats to Kevin and Jason both for going 3-0 and 1st/2nd.
Dozer Blades wrote: So each Dark Reaper gets a S8 shot? That's kind of insane if its true.
It's an upgrade that costs +8 pts per so it's not entirely cheap, but they are still a good unit (though I wouldn't go so far as to call them great).
Their big downside, however, is that they are actually easier to kill than standard marines due to T3.
Dozer Blades wrote: That is insane and kind of broken. They have Slow and Purposeful... They are like mini me Oblits !
Not really. They are actually quite easy to kill and will die to volume-of-fire just like any other marines, only worse due to their T3. The combination my opponent used cost about 700-pts and fortunately for his unit, they were just making their saves.
Dozer Blades wrote: While I like the quad raider list i feel there are other armies that would be a better choice such CSM. So many points were sunk into the land raiders that the squads inside were basically nothing more than place holders for objective grabbing with JAWS thrown in for good measure. On top of that JAWS will struggle versus high initiative armies such as eldar. I think cutting back to two to three land raiders and investing the spare points into stronger units would have been a lot better approach for this type of list. Dark Angels probably also would have been a better choice for the parent list.
Unfortunately, that is one of the inherent weaknesses of a LR-spam list....it's got somewhat fragile troops. It's just something you have to learn to deal with when running such a build.
I was actually thinking of running CSMLR-spam but felt it was a little too cheesy. This is what my Chaos LR list would have looked like:
Abaddon
5x Chosen
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
Land Raider - Dirge Caster, Dozers
Land Raider
Land Raider
Heldrake
Heldrake
Heldrake
Rune Priests are great utility characters. Not only can they use Jaws, but I take them for:
1) Psychic defense.
2) Flexibility - Murderous Hurricane for hordes, Living Lightning for AT
3) Defense - Stormcaller for cover for all my LR's
4) If I really needed to, I could swap them out for Divination or Telepathy powers and try to go for powers such as Misfortune, Terrify, Puppet Master, etc.
Dark Angels got nerfed when their Power Field got FAQ'd. I was actually contemplating taking DA allies for the Power Field, that is, until I read their FAQ's.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
aManBearPig wrote: Did I miss it in an earlier page and Kevin's chaos list was posted? If not does anyone know what it was to post? I would be interest to see it.
No, his list was not posted, but I can tell you approximately what it was (I've played against variations of his lists several times already).
Fateweaver
Tzeentch Herald - Psyker, Grimoire, Locus of Conjuration
Slaanesh Herald - Psyker, Locus of Grace, Lesser Gift (Etherblade)
Chaos Sorcerer - Lvl 3?
6x Fiends of Slaanesh
Large block of Daemonettes
10x Daemonettes
Large block of Pink Horrors
10x Cultists
20x Seekers of Slaanesh
Heldrake
I think that is about it.
BTW, congrats to Janthkin for taking this RTT tournament as well as for winning Animecon with his Chaos as well!
DarthDiggler wrote: I might be wrong, but I think the Reapers average 3 hull points a turn against armor 14. 9 shots twin-linked and rerolling armor pens. That would mean 4 sixes would just be a little above average, but not much.
When the riptide nova charges the ion gun, doesn't it become str 9 and ordnance? That would give it two rolls for armor pen and take the highest. Not the worst thing to use against Land Raiders.
Elite armies always suffer from dice swings and the more games you play the higher the chance you will suffer from a dice swing.
On that first turn of shooting against the Dark Reapers, did he make 5/6 saves? The dice in the picture show 5 saves out of 6 dice. If that was the case his dice would not have been hot. He beat the average by only one.
Indeed, people underestimate Reapers/Tau Commander and I think the Eldar army had the tools for sure. That is why if I ever see that combo across from me, I will cringe (and plan on using it myself as often as possible). The Nightwing can get what, 2 Brightlances or something crazy like that? So ultimately, between the Reapers/Riptide/Nightwing, Eldar with tau fodder (I'm sure Tau are merely tools to the Eldar) had a very good chance to destroy 1-2 Land Raiders a turn IMO. All in all, I would have tried to get within 24" asap of his Reapers to try to block some of those powers and maybe try to engage them in combat but it seemed like the dice were just not helping JY2 any lol! Poor Achilies =(. At least it did better than the movie Troy!?
It's a good combo for sure. I only thing I don't like about it is that it is quite fragile for its costs.
Also, in this game, I was in somewhat of a catch-22 situation. Here I've got 3 objectives (2 Crusade and my Emperor's Will) on my side and only 2 on his side. To go towards him would be to leave behind my objectives. As for my opponent, he had 4 squads of jetbikes as well as outflanking kroots to get to objectives anywhere. He also had a farseer on jetbike ready to contest if necessary.
Baktru wrote: Wow I didn't expect those Eldar to wipe the floor with the Land Raiders that swiftly. The more batreps I see of new Eldar the more they scare me actually.. Every single time I see what faces them and think, that should be close... And somehow the Eldar always do better than I expected from seeing the lists.
They can be really good. All the newer codices - Tau, Eldar and Daemons - are top-notch. Eldar reminds me of necrons when they came out. On first glance, they appeared to be just ok....nothing to overly powerful. But once you get down to it, the synergies in those 2 codices were amazing as well as very deceptive. If you under-estimate them, you are going to lose big time.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.
Really? I was thinking (theory only) that an Eldar primary is helped out more by their Dark allies than Tau. However, I could see Tau primary gaining a lot from Eldar.
Panzer1944 wrote: I chuckled as I kept looking at Jim’s opponent in round 2 and 3 as I apparently was the stepping stone to play him. Round one against Will and his Necron Grey Knights, and then round two against Jason with his Eldar and Tau. Great tournament and I do look forward to another one down the line and continuing reading up on Jim exploits.
That is quite a very unusual "honor" indeed.
Honestly, your army looked quite daunting. My LR list does not have great anti-air firepower.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.
Yeah, and it's just so unfair. The 2 newest codices - Tau and Eldar - are both top-notch codices. And to top it off, they can ALLY with each other as BATTLE BROTHERS!!! How messed up is that?!?
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.
Really? I was thinking (theory only) that an Eldar primary is helped out more by their Dark allies than Tau. However, I could see Tau primary gaining a lot from Eldar.
I agree. I think the combinations of Eldar + Dark Eldar and Tau + Eldar are 2 of the strongest combinations currently. There are just so much shenanigans those armies can team-up to accomplish.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.
Yeah, and it's just so unfair. The 2 newest codices - Tau and Eldar - are both top-notch codices. And to top it off, they can ALLY with each other as BATTLE BROTHERS!!! How messed up is that?!?
Still keeps me puzzling what idiot messed up the ally chart and killed TRAITOR GUARD
I was actually thinking of running CSMLR-spam but felt it was a little too cheesy. This is what my Chaos LR list would have looked like:
Abaddon
5x Chosen
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
Land Raider - Dirge Caster, Dozers
Land Raider
Land Raider
Heldrake
Heldrake
Heldrake
This is a much better list IMO.
It felt a little too cheesy for me so I decided not to go with it.
Good thing too. I didn't finish my 3rd heldrake in time so was going to borrow Reece's heldrake. Reece then couldn't make it on the day of the tournament so I would have been playing with a 1580 list.
