I thought I'd give this a go as I couldn't see one up...
First of all... The CT.
6+ FNP, IWND on Vehicles and Characters, +1 to Techmarines and MOTF to fix things.
Some say mediocre, but this Marine army can really shine.
WEAKNESSES...
Drop lists do not work on Tau. They have too much firepower that can wreck any Dreadnought you put up there.
Tank lists do not work against Necrons or Eldar. Eldar can just haywire or Dcannon our tanks. Necrons just glance to death. No matter how cool IWND is, it doesn't help vs these two armies.
THINGS THAT WORK...
Land Raider Achilles and MOTF - Toughest tank in the game.
Twin Vindicators - Must answer targets.
Assault Terminators - The FNP, even at a 6+ helps.
Land Raider Spam - Is a thing and is crazy.
Stormraven Spam - IWND Ravens. Yup... Tougher than Drakes and can kill a Drake with ease.
Venerable Dreadnought Riflemen - Backed up by Techmarines or MOTF is insane. They just don't die and are super accurate. Lots of Dakka. Spamable too.
MOTF - Cheap character, which is much needed considering the amount of armour we bring.
Techmarines - They are not bad here. Great for Ven Dread Rifle Spam. Just remember to take two HQ to get a full quota.
DA PFG - I hate allies, but yes, it works.
CM in TDA - Not only is it fluffy, he is absolutely as hard as nails when taken with the Relic Shield. Considering how many Land Raiders this army can use and use well, I think he's more suited here than the CM on bike. Attach a TH/SS Squad or HG for maximum beatings.
THINGS WE THOUGHT WOULD WORK...
The EWCM on a bike - too expensive and needs a bike squadron to babysit him. Points that should go elsewhere. We are not White Scars who take multiple Bike squads or have rules to take advantage of.
Dread Drop Spam - Eldar and Tau eat this list for breakfast.
Iron Hands Achilles Land Raiders and Spartans are going to make people cry cheese for quite a while, drive up a PFG and a Techmarine/MoTF next to them to maximize tears and butthurt.
Did you somehow get a hullpoint off my AV14 all around melta and lance immune tank that forces you to roll -1 on the damage table? Lemme roll that away.
Want to try ignoring it? Nope, Thunderfire cannon.
Get close? Nope, multimeltas.
Sure it's expensive at 325 points, but it's never going down and is going to be a pain in the ass all game long.
jamin484 wrote: Grav weapons will maul achillies or Spartans.
Hence cover saves or a power field generator to bounce off the few Grav weapons that do hit. Hull point stripping is in any case, a fairly bad way to kill something that can so easily get them back like a IWND Land Raider with something to repair it.
jamin484 wrote: Grav weapons will maul achillies or Spartans.
Hence cover saves or a power field generator to bounce off the few Grav weapons that do hit. Hull point stripping is in any case, a fairly bad way to kill something that can so easily get them back like a IWND Land Raider with something to repair it.
LMAO... PFG plus the Achilles and IH stuff is just wrong.
I never take Allies, so it's a moot point for me.
On the Grav Weapons murdering this Tank subject... That's about as useful as glancing it with Str 8 and it'll have a MOTF and two repair servitors with Techmarine backups.
The MOTF will repair on 2+ with all his buffs and 3+ for the two Techmarines.
I FEAR NOTHING, FOR FEAR IS WEAK AND THE WEAK WILL PERISH!!!
jamin484 wrote: Grav weapons will maul achillies or Spartans.
Hence cover saves or a power field generator to bounce off the few Grav weapons that do hit. Hull point stripping is in any case, a fairly bad way to kill something that can so easily get them back like a IWND Land Raider with something to repair it.
LMAO... PFG plus the Achilles and IH stuff is just wrong.
I never take Allies, so it's a moot point for me.
On the Grav Weapons murdering this Tank subject... That's about as useful as glancing it with Str 8 and it'll have a MOTF and two repair servitors with Techmarine backups.
The MOTF will repair on 2+ with all his buffs and 3+ for the two Techmarines.
I FEAR NOTHING, FOR FEAR IS WEAK AND THE WEAK WILL PERISH!!!
Grav weapons are probably scarier than S8 spam because A. they get off *far* more shots and B. every glance after the first one removes two hull points. But you should be able to keep them away.
If you don't want to use the PFG, hiding in bolstered ruins is still very much a troll move.
After being butt hurt all my 40k life by bigger badder tanks, vehicles and special characters, read monoliths and Fortune cast on Eldar vehicles, Deep Striking Land Raiders, I am going to take alot of joy in beating the living Cr*p out of all of my local META-SPAM with my achilles, scores and grudges will be settled (I have ordered it and it seems FW are shifting a fair few since Saturday!).
Wraithknights and Riptides will fall, all I need to work out is the most efficient way to neutralise HELLDRAKES and I'm golden.
mwnciboo wrote: After being butt hurt all my 40k life by bigger badder tanks, vehicles and special characters, read monoliths and Fortune cast on Eldar vehicles, Deep Striking Land Raiders, I am going to take alot of joy in beating the living Cr*p out of all of my local META-SPAM with my achilles, scores and grudges will be settled (I have ordered it and it seems FW are shifting a fair few since Saturday!).
Wraithknights and Riptides will fall, all I need to work out is the most efficient way to neutralise HELLDRAKES and I'm golden.
Storm talons do well against heldrakes. Their rear armor is pretty crap after all and you have a turret.
Now that 5 man tactical squads can take a DP, you could do quite a funny list with 6 Ironclads (or any other type of dread) with DPs arriving on turn 1, with another 5 pods each with a tactical squad in reserve. Add a MotF and it still comes less than 1750 points.
I am planning on using that beefed up Clan Leader to see how he does. 250pts for one HQ is only good if he is worth it. Thunder hammer, EWSS, bike, and AA they are all good but add up. If you put him in a bike squad with grav guns, the loss of initiate is sort of mitigated by the concussive rule on their shots.
My big question is what to use as anti-air. I know the usefulness of Stormtalons, but they probably won't benefit from our traits much. The other option is the hunter imo. 3hps and 60" range make it very survivable for a cheap vehicle.
Personally, i'm looking at the MoTF as an HQ with Relic Shield placed in the Achilles with a 5 man sternguard squad.
He now has 2+/3++, ew, fnp, iwnd, can repair on a 3+, and has 5 sternguard to deliver if the need arises. Almost like i just gave him a Generic Command squad.
Anyone else see some promise with taking IG and IH? MotF and Techmarines repair friendly vehicles, this means Leman Russes and any other Guard vehicle. Take some infantry squads and conscripts to stand behind the tanks or to the sides incase grav guns come about, and bring a MotF with some Tac marine squads up the mid field and decimate?
Iron Father Mac wrote: Personally, i'm looking at the MoTF as an HQ with Relic Shield placed in the Achilles with a 5 man sternguard squad.
He now has 2+/3++, ew, fnp, iwnd, can repair on a 3+, and has 5 sternguard to deliver if the need arises. Almost like i just gave him a Generic Command squad.
Tying Sternguard to a CC Character with 2W seems foolish to me, though I maybe wrong? If you want a meat shield surely a Scout Squad is cheaper?
Honestly just running ironclads in pods with a master of the forge for more ironclads makes the army hilariously broken.
First turn you ironclad their deployment zone with 6 of the bastards. You then have 5 groups of tacticals in pods, a master of the forge and 3 TFC to boot. 5 points to spare. Enjoy.
juraigamer wrote: Honestly just running ironclads in pods with a master of the forge for more ironclads makes the army hilariously broken.
First turn you ironclad their deployment zone with 6 of the bastards. You then have 5 groups of tacticals in pods, a master of the forge and 3 TFC to boot. 5 points to spare. Enjoy.
I used an Iron-Clad a couple of weeks ago and it battered a Daemon Prince. It shouldn't have happened, I got lucky but the player was concentrating on him, if I'd drop 6 on him I think he would have been overloaded.
This is before I add in IWND and others elements from the new Codex.
I'm not sure it's economical to use the MOTF when you get IWND on all your vehicles for free... when instead you can spam the vehicles? More vehicles means more chance the ability will work, and you get more stuff that can shoot. And no need to get spendy with HQ and Elite slots... let the vehicles do the work and have a few dudes inside to clean up after.
I was thinking of making a list that is built around AV 13/14, w/ two land raiders, and two tanks, plus two rhinos with full tac squads. Vindi or Pred is the real question... vindis would be at home moving up with the Raiders (mobile cover shenanigans) and their weapons are very good against vehicles and infantry, but on the other hand maybe I'm better off with longer range stuff?
Thinking Vindi's for now I don't play IH but Minotaurs, and want to use the chapter tactics to represent them.
juraigamer wrote: Honestly just running ironclads in pods with a master of the forge for more ironclads makes the army hilariously broken.
First turn you ironclad their deployment zone with 6 of the bastards. You then have 5 groups of tacticals in pods, a master of the forge and 3 TFC to boot. 5 points to spare. Enjoy.
How do you have 6 and 3 TFC?
Thought they replace heavy slots.
In 1850 I planned on running 3
Broken HQCM with some type of gun(haven't decided) and a scoring bike unit with PW & AB 2 grav guns + combi grav
That unit will put a hurt on anything it shoots at yet alone assault.
I've found Ironclads to be fairly effective in 6th edition with or without pods. A lot of armies are skimping on the weapons to face AV13/14, and IWND makes this even better.
6 iron clads will ruin most armies. Right now tau, eldar, and even necrons cap out at the s7 mark for the most point which makes IWND SOOOOO Tasty
Automatically Appended Next Post: MOF
5 scouts
5 tac marines in pod x5
6 iron clads with HF in pods x6
1750 on the nose lol
Serpent spam is still an issue though, they can boost away from the IC dreads and spend the game picking your troops off because all your AT is on the clads. Seriously funny list though. I think squeezing in some storm talons might help. 4 iron clads is probably more prudent but 6 is way more hilarious.
Meade wrote: I'm not sure it's economical to use the MOTF when you get IWND on all your vehicles for free... when instead you can spam the vehicles? More vehicles means more chance the ability will work, and you get more stuff that can shoot. And no need to get spendy with HQ and Elite slots... let the vehicles do the work and have a few dudes inside to clean up after.
I was thinking of making a list that is built around AV 13/14, w/ two land raiders, and two tanks, plus two rhinos with full tac squads. Vindi or Pred is the real question... vindis would be at home moving up with the Raiders (mobile cover shenanigans) and their weapons are very good against vehicles and infantry, but on the other hand maybe I'm better off with longer range stuff?
Thinking Vindi's for now I don't play IH but Minotaurs, and want to use the chapter tactics to represent them.
Now this is what I was thinking, but instead of taking two Land Raiders, just the one Achilles.
The reason I was taking the MOTF was to make sure the Achilles survives which, with the MOTF and three Servitors and two Techmarines get one 2+ repair roll and a two 3+ per turn. There is no stopping that thing.
I wouldn't take the MOTF unless I was using the Dread Drop Pods.
Speaking of which...
Going to proxy the Ironclad Bash today. Not planning on 6, probably four.
Drop Pod armies are looking to be scary, but as the son of a retired Royal Tank Regiment Officer, I have to go for Tanks.
Meade wrote: I'm not sure it's economical to use the MOTF when you get IWND on all your vehicles for free... when instead you can spam the vehicles? More vehicles means more chance the ability will work, and you get more stuff that can shoot. And no need to get spendy with HQ and Elite slots... let the vehicles do the work and have a few dudes inside to clean up after.
How about this for fun and games. Three Stormravens each with a Techmarine/MOTF and 2/3 servitors each. That gives you three flyers with IWND and an auto repair each turn from the passengers. Give each of them a Ironclad to drop down as well, who can then be backed up by the priest squads if needed. Whole lot comes to around 1300, leaving plenty points in a 1750/1850 game for troops and suchlike.
Martel732 wrote: I think dual Stormraven lists are better than triple in this codex. Just my initial thoughts.
It's either that or Storm talons. Or bikes if you're some crazy person who doesn't like using the White Scars. Talons are cheaper but definitely more fragile. Though the "run and gun" tactic of shooting past the other guy and dumping your assault cannon turret into their backs is very viable as even the Heldrake has crap rear armor.
Ironclad Dreadnought - 200
Chainfist, 2x Hunter-Killer Missile, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod.
Ironclad Dreadnought - 200
Chainfist, 2x Hunter-Killer Missile, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod.
I took this vs Tau.
Did it work? Nope.
Was it fun? Nope.
It has to be the single most boring list I've ever played.
I dropped the Dread Pods in on T1 and destroyed in the first turn:
Two HH Gunships - Melta and HK Missiles.
One FW squad - with a HF.
One Pathfinder squad - with a HF.
The Dreads basically won it on T1. Close range Melta and the HKs killed the tanks off easy. His line was battered by the other two.
Tau T1, I lost:
One Dread - Plasma Suits hitting in the rear.
One Dread - A lucky Rail shot from a Broadside.
Immobilised Dread - Riptide Fusion Guns to the face.
My T2:
Only one Tac squad arrived.
Tau T2:
I got tabled.
Yeah... not doing a drop list vs Tau ever again!!!
I don't play Marines, but I'm thinking about starting an Iron Hands army. How would two Thunderfire Cannons, Battle cannon Vengeance Weapon Batteries backed up by drop podding troops be? I just like the idea of a lot of blast/large blasts hitting the field.
Cents are good here... Yet still expensive for what they are.
So far... Through general consensus of the testing team I'm in and some folk on the Dakka boards, Land Raider Spam or Stormraven Spam are the best builds for IH.
Two Crusaders loaded with guys, plus an Achilles loaded with MOTF and Servitors is not going anywhere at at all.
AV14 plus IWND is just too tough. The Achilles then turns that up to 11.
So... Let's roll with this...
Two Crusaders plus an Achilles with MOTF and Servitors. What do you get the Crusaders to transport?
Puscifer wrote: Cents are good here... Yet still expensive for what they are.
So far... Through general consensus of the testing team I'm in and some folk on the Dakka boards, Land Raider Spam or Stormraven Spam are the best builds for IH.
Two Crusaders loaded with guys, plus an Achilles loaded with MOTF and Servitors is not going anywhere at at all.
AV14 plus IWND is just too tough. The Achilles then turns that up to 11.
So... Let's roll with this...
Two Crusaders plus an Achilles with MOTF and Servitors. What do you get the Crusaders to transport?
I have been toying with IH lists out of general interest and curiosity, and I ran into the same problem. I thought why not some THSS terminators, but then I was so high in points i had almost no scoring troops. My main issue right now is fielding enough armor to take advantage of IWND and the MotF / Techmarines repairing while still bringing enough scoring troops, and firepower.
I am Finding it really hard to build a balanced list. I liked the one in this thread with all the ironclads. I wish i had enough dreads and pods to proxy that for a test run, but I still love the idea of 1-3 AV14 landraiders with a MotF and IWND. Just seems like it would be really hard for most armies to destroy them all.
Puscifer wrote: Cents are good here... Yet still expensive for what they are.
So far... Through general consensus of the testing team I'm in and some folk on the Dakka boards, Land Raider Spam or Stormraven Spam are the best builds for IH.
Two Crusaders loaded with guys, plus an Achilles loaded with MOTF and Servitors is not going anywhere at at all.
AV14 plus IWND is just too tough. The Achilles then turns that up to 11.
So... Let's roll with this...
Two Crusaders plus an Achilles with MOTF and Servitors. What do you get the Crusaders to transport?
I have been toying with IH lists out of general interest and curiosity, and I ran into the same problem. I thought why not some THSS terminators, but then I was so high in points i had almost no scoring troops. My main issue right now is fielding enough armor to take advantage of IWND and the MotF / Techmarines repairing while still bringing enough scoring troops, and firepower.
I am Finding it really hard to build a balanced list. I liked the one in this thread with all the ironclads. I wish i had enough dreads and pods to proxy that for a test run, but I still love the idea of 1-3 AV14 landraiders with a MotF and IWND. Just seems like it would be really hard for most armies to destroy them all.
Rezyn, how many 10 man tac squads are you able to fit? Remember, you can always break those into two five man squads to sit on objectives in any match besides KP and it's golden.
Puscifer wrote: Cents are good here... Yet still expensive for what they are.
So far... Through general consensus of the testing team I'm in and some folk on the Dakka boards, Land Raider Spam or Stormraven Spam are the best builds for IH.
Two Crusaders loaded with guys, plus an Achilles loaded with MOTF and Servitors is not going anywhere at at all.
AV14 plus IWND is just too tough. The Achilles then turns that up to 11.
So... Let's roll with this...
Two Crusaders plus an Achilles with MOTF and Servitors. What do you get the Crusaders to transport?
I have been toying with IH lists out of general interest and curiosity, and I ran into the same problem. I thought why not some THSS terminators, but then I was so high in points i had almost no scoring troops. My main issue right now is fielding enough armor to take advantage of IWND and the MotF / Techmarines repairing while still bringing enough scoring troops, and firepower.
I am Finding it really hard to build a balanced list. I liked the one in this thread with all the ironclads. I wish i had enough dreads and pods to proxy that for a test run, but I still love the idea of 1-3 AV14 landraiders with a MotF and IWND. Just seems like it would be really hard for most armies to destroy them all.
Rezyn, how many 10 man tac squads are you able to fit? Remember, you can always break those into two five man squads to sit on objectives in any match besides KP and it's golden.
^ This.
I was only planning of taking 2 ten man squads of Tactical Marines and a 5 Man Squad to sit back on the home objective.
You don't need more than that really.
Also... 2 Vindicators and the Achilles is far better than two LRC and Achilles.
That leaves more points free.
Also... I'm really really liking the Stormtalon ATM. It's possibly our best in slot for IH. Arm with Lascannons and let rip at any flyers or tanks that might harass you.
Puscifer wrote: Cents are good here... Yet still expensive for what they are.
So far... Through general consensus of the testing team I'm in and some folk on the Dakka boards, Land Raider Spam or Stormraven Spam are the best builds for IH.
Two Crusaders loaded with guys, plus an Achilles loaded with MOTF and Servitors is not going anywhere at at all.
AV14 plus IWND is just too tough. The Achilles then turns that up to 11.
So... Let's roll with this...
Two Crusaders plus an Achilles with MOTF and Servitors. What do you get the Crusaders to transport?
I have been toying with IH lists out of general interest and curiosity, and I ran into the same problem. I thought why not some THSS terminators, but then I was so high in points i had almost no scoring troops. My main issue right now is fielding enough armor to take advantage of IWND and the MotF / Techmarines repairing while still bringing enough scoring troops, and firepower.
I am Finding it really hard to build a balanced list. I liked the one in this thread with all the ironclads. I wish i had enough dreads and pods to proxy that for a test run, but I still love the idea of 1-3 AV14 landraiders with a MotF and IWND. Just seems like it would be really hard for most armies to destroy them all.
Rezyn, how many 10 man tac squads are you able to fit? Remember, you can always break those into two five man squads to sit on objectives in any match besides KP and it's golden.
^ This.
I was only planning of taking 2 ten man squads of Tactical Marines and a 5 Man Squad to sit back on the home objective.
You don't need more than that really.
Also... 2 Vindicators and the Achilles is far better than two LRC and Achilles.
That leaves more points free.
Also... I'm really really liking the Stormtalon ATM. It's possibly our best in slot for IH. Arm with Lascannons and let rip at any flyers or tanks that might harass you.
If you have the points left over, maybe even consider throwing the scout squad in a LSS just for added speed and a potential late game move for an objective.
Ironclad Dreadnought - 200
Chainfist, 2x Hunter-Killer Missile, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod.
Ironclad Dreadnought - 200
Chainfist, 2x Hunter-Killer Missile, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod.
I took this vs Tau.
Did it work? Nope.
Was it fun? Nope.
It has to be the single most boring list I've ever played.
I dropped the Dread Pods in on T1 and destroyed in the first turn:
Two HH Gunships - Melta and HK Missiles.
One FW squad - with a HF.
One Pathfinder squad - with a HF.
The Dreads basically won it on T1. Close range Melta and the HKs killed the tanks off easy. His line was battered by the other two.
Tau T1, I lost:
One Dread - Plasma Suits hitting in the rear.
One Dread - A lucky Rail shot from a Broadside.
Immobilised Dread - Riptide Fusion Guns to the face.
My T2:
Only one Tac squad arrived.
Tau T2:
I got tabled.
Yeah... not doing a drop list vs Tau ever again!!!
I thought you couldn't do drop lists like that anymore because you have to have half your army on the table at the beginning of the game. Is that not true? Because I love drop pods.
I thought you couldn't do drop lists like that anymore because you have to have half your army on the table at the beginning of the game. Is that not true? Because I love drop pods.
I thought this was the case as well, but the BRBFAQ came out and said things that are in the Droppods or in fliers done count towards the limit.
I thought you couldn't do drop lists like that anymore because you have to have half your army on the table at the beginning of the game. Is that not true? Because I love drop pods.
I thought this was the case as well, but the BRBFAQ came out and said things that are in the Droppods or in fliers done count towards the limit.
Basically, models that have to start in reserve don't count to the limit, and models in said dedicated transports don't count towards the limit.
So you just put 1 thing on the field, to put your MOTF on a pod, and it's legal.
I thought you couldn't do drop lists like that anymore because you have to have half your army on the table at the beginning of the game. Is that not true? Because I love drop pods.
I thought this was the case as well, but the BRBFAQ came out and said things that are in the Droppods or in fliers done count towards the limit.
Basically, models that have to start in reserve don't count to the limit, and models in said dedicated transports don't count towards the limit.
So you just put 1 thing on the field, to put your MOTF on a pod, and it's legal.
volatileart wrote: Just make sure that one thing doesn't die on the first turn or its game over lol
Yeah that happened at Adepticon with a flier spam Necron list. They lost the game in under 2 minutes. I think it was a record.
No, the holder of that record is White Scars player who put everything in reserve (back in 4th, I think) and his opponent strung out his infiltrating Kroot all along the edge. No room to bring anything on at all, game over.
volatileart wrote: Just make sure that one thing doesn't die on the first turn or its game over lol
You only lose if you have nothing on the field at the end of your turn. Can't possibly happen with drop pods, can happen if your a nercon air spam bastard.
volatileart wrote: Just make sure that one thing doesn't die on the first turn or its game over lol
Yeah that happened at Adepticon with a flier spam Necron list. They lost the game in under 2 minutes. I think it was a record.
No, the holder of that record is White Scars player who put everything in reserve (back in 4th, I think) and his opponent strung out his infiltrating Kroot all along the edge. No room to bring anything on at all, game over.
Correct. That was at a regional European 40k tournament for 5th edition that didn't allow named characters.
What happened was white scar guy puts all bikes in reserve, so tau guy infiltrates his board edge so nothing can come on. Bikes auto lost.
2000 Points..... 5 Land Raiders and 2 Wall of marthyrs battlecannons batteries. That makes 7 AV14 targets in the army and nothing to shoot at outside them.
Iron hands:
Librarian, 3x5 scouts, 3 Godhammer Land Raiders
Black templars:(allies)
MoTF, 2X5 Crusaders, 2 Crusader Land Raider
Fortifications:
2xBattlecanon wall of marthir forts
Thats 2000 points with some bits of special weapons, melta bombs and love.
Now ask your oponent if he have what it takes to deal with all that AV14 spawn Some of them with IWND, nothing out from the LR till its safe
(The reason to use Black Templars instead of elites raiding the 5th LR is to have enought free points to get the fortifications in.) I love them
Sandokann wrote: 2000 Points..... 5 Land Raiders and 2 Wall of marthyrs battlecannons batteries. That makes 7 AV14 targets in the army and nothing to shoot at outside them.
Iron hands:
Librarian, 3x5 scouts, 3 Godhammer Land Raiders
Black templars:(allies)
MoTF, 2X5 Crusaders, 2 Crusader Land Raider
Fortifications:
2xBattlecanon wall of marthir forts
Thats 2000 points with some bits of special weapons, melta bombs and love.
Now ask your oponent if he have what it takes to deal with all that AV14 spawn Some of them with IWND, nothing out from the LR till its safe
(The reason to use Black Templars instead of elites raiding the 5th LR is to have enought free points to get the fortifications in.) I love them
You sir, are a sick, sick man.
Report to your local Arbites Hall of Justice and await the Inquisitor.
Has anyone tried ironclads on a smaller scale. 2000pt list. Two dropped ironclads backed up by two venerable rifleman with mof conversion Beamer behind aegis. Pair of vindis, pair of talons. Three full tac squads. Lots of threat. Long range, medium range and upfront and personal. It will not die.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Two tac squads in rhinos. Third goes behind aegis with empty pod.
Not a typical IH list, but I am working towards this:
Clan leader on bike (Shield Eternal, AA, and Thunderhammer)
5 bikes with 2 grav and combi-grav
50 tacticals in pods
stormtalon
thunderfire
grav/amp centurions
I should hit hard and then have the resilience to last the rest of the fight.
Just getting back into 40k... could anyone answer some of my questions please. I played Vanilla SM before I quit a year or 2 ago.
Is a Land Raider Achilles a FW thing? Because I'm not allowed to use FW in the locals here.
Also, what LR variant would you use if you weren't using the LR Achilles? Would it still be viable to do LR spam (2-3) w/o the Achilles?
syypher wrote: Just getting back into 40k... could anyone answer some of my questions please. I played Vanilla SM before I quit a year or 2 ago.
Is a Land Raider Achilles a FW thing? Because I'm not allowed to use FW in the locals here.
Also, what LR variant would you use if you weren't using the LR Achilles? Would it still be viable to do LR spam (2-3) w/o the Achilles?
Yeah sure... Welcome back.
The Achilles is indeed a Forge World model. It's a shame your locals won't let you use it, it's a phenomenal tank in IH armies.
If you can't use that, try three Crusaders. The Crusader has the transport capacity and enough firepower to annihilate hordes.
Redeemer is ok, but with such a short range, you risk getting it Melted.
The Phobos or regular Raider is not a greatTank due to smaller transport capacity and you're better off using LC/ML Cents if you want Anti Tank firepower.
CM with stuff
MotF with stuff
Techmarine
Techmarine
5x Tacticals
5x Tacticals
Terminator Assault Squad w/ dedicated LRC
LRA
LRP
LRC
Ouch. In KP games, you'll be fine. I like the list, but how do you keep objectives?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jamo wrote: Has anyone tried ironclads on a smaller scale. 2000pt list. Two dropped ironclads backed up by two venerable rifleman with mof conversion Beamer behind aegis. Pair of vindis, pair of talons. Three full tac squads. Lots of threat. Long range, medium range and upfront and personal. It will not die.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Two tac squads in rhinos. Third goes behind aegis with empty pod.
My list is very similar at 1750, except I drop the Ironclads.
After trying Ironclads and getting slaughtered by Tau, twice, I don't think they are good enough. YMMV Though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Keep the ideas coming, they are really good.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
UPDATE -
I've streamlined the OP a bit and added some more stuff from testing.
Got four other gamers testing IH, so the results are coming in thick and fast.
Jamo wrote: Cheers for reply. What would be good to replace ironclads?
2000pts
Mof conversion Beamer
3 full tac squads rhinos
2 venerable rifleman
2 talOns skyhammer
2 vindis with extra bolter
Aegis quadgun
400 points left. What would fit well?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, what size blast is the conversion Beamer?
The Conversion Beamer is only a small blast. I've not tried it, but it doesn't do enough for me.
Personally, I would drop...
The Conversion Beamer.
The Aegis Quad Gun.
That gives another 120 points.
So you have 520 points spare and that is a lot.
At 2000 points, you venture in the realms of additional slots for your army, which most other armies will be abusing.
You can go a number of different ways here as you have a solid core of stuff.
From what I can see you have
HQ MOTF.
ELITES
Ven Dread Rifleman.
Ven Dread Rifleman.
TROOPS
Tac Squad in Rhino.
Tac Squad in Rhino.
Tac Squad in Rhino.
FAST ATTACK
Stormtalon.
Stormtalon.
HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator.
Vindicator.
It's a solid start and I for one would take near enough the same build.
You can't go wrong with a big tank to get a squad to the front lines and they don't get bigger for Marines than a Land Raider.
Everyone who plays IH would say Achilles is the best and they are not wrong. Sure it has a very small capacity for troops, but it has more survivability than any other tank. Coupled with IWND and the MOTF, it serious just doesn't die.
If your local group doesn't allow FW stuff go for a Crusader. It mulches infantry and provides a Tactical squads worth of firepower to the squad it transports - TH/SS Terminators in this case.
You could also take Stormraven if you wanted more Anti Armour that can also annihilate flyers.
One thing I did notice is that you lack heavy melee... For this, I recommend one of the best heavy melee units in the game... TH/SS Terminators. With a Crusader and those Vindicators, there wouldn't be much left of anything you assaulted.
Finally... Upgrades.
Take Lascannons on any flyers that you can. They will bring down Drakes and sure up your battles against heavy MC like Wraithknights and Riptide.
I've only played a couple games of 6th, none with the new codex and given the IH rules, some FW love and the new codex in general I want to do up a new IH army. I want some fluff, but plan on having at least a dose of competitiveness in there as well. The only issue/restriction outside of the fluff, is I want Heresy era figs only, and 95% FW models. Also, I want to make it compliant with the 40k world so I can play local tournies. There, I have set my ground rules, I have a few questions.
Dreads are very Iron Handy, and the new FW contempter is a must have. Should this be a counts as Iron clad or with a back line regular dread with TLLC or TLACx2 be better?
Going to use a StormEagle to counts as a stormraven. I was going to put a captain with command squad in here to be my only real assault unit. I am rethinking that now... This would be my only AA option unless things change. Techmarine goes in here as well to repair
MotF with CB on a bike attached to a small bike squad. Bike squads are so cheap now, these would be his wound/body guard.
Three tactical squads in Rhinos two of which 100% anti infantry/light vehicle
Two Thunderfires
Two landspeeder typhoons
Should I make it so I have two dreads as well?
Maybe I should start a new thread in armylists??
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also willing to remove some stuff for Predators...
Master Melta wrote: I've only played a couple games of 6th, none with the new codex and given the IH rules, some FW love and the new codex in general I want to do up a new IH army. I want some fluff, but plan on having at least a dose of competitiveness in there as well. The only issue/restriction outside of the fluff, is I want Heresy era figs only, and 95% FW models. Also, I want to make it compliant with the 40k world so I can play local tournies. There, I have set my ground rules, I have a few questions.
Dreads are very Iron Handy, and the new FW contempter is a must have. Should this be a counts as Iron clad or with a back line regular dread with TLLC or TLACx2 be better?
Going to use a StormEagle to counts as a stormraven. I was going to put a captain with command squad in here to be my only real assault unit. I am rethinking that now... This would be my only AA option unless things change. Techmarine goes in here as well to repair
MotF with CB on a bike attached to a small bike squad. Bike squads are so cheap now, these would be his wound/body guard.
Three tactical squads in Rhinos two of which 100% anti infantry/light vehicle
Two Thunderfires
Two landspeeder typhoons
Should I make it so I have two dreads as well?
Maybe I should start a new thread in armylists??
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also willing to remove some stuff for Predators...
Your army is going to look bad ass.
The only thing I can comment on without seeing an army list is the Contemptor Dread.
I'd use it as a Contemptor. A mortis variant if you can. They are allowed in standard 40k as far as I'm aware of.
syypher wrote: Just getting back into 40k... could anyone answer some of my questions please. I played Vanilla SM before I quit a year or 2 ago.
Is a Land Raider Achilles a FW thing? Because I'm not allowed to use FW in the locals here.
Also, what LR variant would you use if you weren't using the LR Achilles? Would it still be viable to do LR spam (2-3) w/o the Achilles?
sadly none of the other variants are nearly as good
how do LRs die? by exploding. not ever by being hull point wrecked sadly. so the IWND really wont help a ton. it will help, but when that melta gets through, by by 250 point LR.
The Razorback with TL-LAC is quite expensive. I have been playing with 5man Squads in TL-Razorbacks.
It looks good superficially, like 4-5 Squads means you spam them. But the high cost of the TL-Las means you are investing alot - an awful lot.
I'm going with Rifle-Dreads for AA and ground fire, pair of Iron Clads (with a flamer over a melta) I've had good experiences with them but you've got to field at least 2. Not a problem because with IH it's HS you have to ration. I'm even considering 2 x StormTalon. It's still early days for lists and play testing, I'm still waiting for Army Builder Codex files, then I will start really tweaking.
Puscifer, have you tried the LR spawn list I suggested with 2 battlecannon bateries? I would love to have some feed back from you, Im trying to free enought points to change 2 godhammers or phobos as you like to name them for 2 Achilles but still havent decided what to drop.
Yesterday i faced what I think can be the worse adversary for this list: Oshova army with multyple suicide melta crisis squads, riptides and broadsides and a adl with comunicator for the crisis....
It was a hard game where i lost 2 LRs in my oponent 2nd turn but at the end the spawn proved to work, once he droped his meltas in my lines i could easily erase them in my next turn leaving him with no troop to claim objetives and no weapon in his whole army to scratch a Land raider after killing his riptide. I won cause of the 5 troops squads i use.
Still I feel 1 or 2 achilles could help in the army, could you help me there sir?
Sandokann wrote: Puscifer, have you tried the LR spawn list I suggested with 2 battlecannon bateries? I would love to have some feed back from you, Im trying to free enought points to change 2 godhammers or phobos as you like to name them for 2 Achilles but still havent decided what to drop.
Yesterday i faced what I think can be the worse adversary for this list: Oshova army with multyple suicide melta crisis squads, riptides and broadsides and a adl with comunicator for the crisis....
It was a hard game where i lost 2 LRs in my oponent 2nd turn but at the end the spawn proved to work, once he droped his meltas in my lines i could easily erase them in my next turn leaving him with no troop to claim objetives and no weapon in his whole army to scratch a Land raider after killing his riptide. I won cause of the 5 troops squads i use.
Still I feel 1 or 2 achilles could help in the army, could you help me there sir?
I haven't tried the list you described as yet. I know one of my friends saw it and said he wants to try it.
I'll get back to you when he has against a couple of different opponents.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for Achilles... Every IH army should take One, but no more than that. It's a 300 point Tank, which has a lot of firepower, but can't transport a lot of things. You also need more than one MOTF for it to be effective, which it won't be as I feel that every army needs a beatstick.
I have to say I am severely disappointed in the lack of terminators in these Iron hand lists! They are supposed to be one of the most Terminatorin chapters this side of the galactic Mississippi! Let me show you guys how its done!!!!!! ;P
Terminators aren't necessarily Iron Hands things. Once a upon a time you could have had a Termie Sergeant, but the problem was you couldn't stick the squad in a Rhino or a Drop-pod because of the Damn Sergeant. So literally no one used this.
These days I'd rather take take an Iron Clad or Sternguard over termies. If you take Iron Hands Termies you need to take a Transport which means a Landraider. So thats pushing 450pts + for one unit which really doesn't benefit that much from it IWND or 6+ FNP.
mwnciboo wrote: Terminators aren't necessarily Iron Hands things. Once a upon a time you could have had a Termie Sergeant, but the problem was you couldn't stick the squad in a Rhino or a Drop-pod because of the Damn Sergeant. So literally no one used this.
These days I'd rather take take an Iron Clad or Sternguard over termies. If you take Iron Hands Termies you need to take a Transport which means a Landraider. So thats pushing 450pts + for one unit which really doesn't benefit that much from it IWND or 6+ FNP.
I just remember reading some things about how Iron Hands have a lot more terminator armor than most chapters so i decided to be a little silly and throw that list together quickly, it wasn't supposed to be a serious list lol.
If I were going to be serious i would do some sort of hybrid drop list. Have 2 ironclads drop in turn one with long range back up from preads and a thunderfire cannon, have a drop pod of sternguard come in later. sprinkle in some tac squads maybe with a razorback or two and your choice of bad ass HQ. Oh and maybe some stormtalons for AA and strafing runs.
KingCronan wrote: I have to say I am severely disappointed in the lack of terminators in these Iron hand lists! They are supposed to be one of the most Terminatorin chapters this side of the galactic Mississippi! Let me show you guys how its done!!!!!! ;P
Heavy Support
275 LRC: Multi melta, extra armor
275 LRC: Multi melta, extra armor
75 Stalker (so you have at least some anti air)
CM+MotF+terminators in one LRC then tech+terminators in the other and the rest of the units shooting at things i guess = Best list EVAR!
I will accept my endless accolades now.
I like that list.
The only thing that screams out to me is lack of Rhino for the Tac Squads and I'd take Hunter over the Stalker. The Hunter is more reliable than the Stalker for dropping Flyers. If it hits, it usually kills. Stalkers are good for FMC.
I'd probably drop the CM and Techmarine in favour of Rhino for your Tac squads and possibly a Stormtalon to sure up your Anti Flyer game.
Unit1126PLL wrote: In the olden days, IH couldn't field Terminator squads because they didn't have many suits - most of their TDA went with the Morlocks at Istaavan
Standby for this to be RETCON'D by the MASSACRE Forge World Book - I've been lead to believe that Morlock Terminators will be joined by another Terminator Unit. I'm not sure what they are called, but I always thought it was MORLOCKS but apparently there is another named terminator unit in the book. I might be wrong but a friend of mine who came to tournament last weekend works at up at "Evil Corporate HQ" and he told me there is another termie type unit coming in massacre. I'll see on Games day.
Hey Puscifer I know you're over marines at the mo, but can you give us a quick rundown of how those 30 games went. Specifically IH. Just some basics mate.
Here is an update for the "Sick Raider" list at 2.000 Pts
IH Land Raider Achilles with 5 scouts and Librarian
IH Land Raider Achiles with 5 scouts
IH Land Raider Phobos
BT Land Raider Crusader with 5 crusaders and MoTF BT Land Raider Terminus Ultra
2 Wall of Marthyrs Battlecannon fortifications
Now its starting to work, the 2 Achilles and the Terminus game me the firepower and resistance I was lacking. Its a miracle you can field 7 AV14 monsters and still retain 4 troops for objetives holding.
Jamo wrote: Hey Puscifer I know you're over marines at the mo, but can you give us a quick rundown of how those 30 games went. Specifically IH. Just some basics mate.
I decided to abuse the IWND and the fact that the LRA is nigh indestructible, especially in this build.
I lump all the MOTF and Techmarines in the LRA and combat squad the Tactical Squads. The Lascannons go on the home objectives or ruins that have been bolstered by MOTF and TM. The PG guys in the Razorbacks.
I set up castled in a corner and attack with full force on a hard flank. I used this to great effect with DW so I hoped it would work here.
My friends went with other builds from the Vanilla Codex (I got IH) but we each took thirty games against the top three armies in our Metas... Tau, Eldar and Nurgle Drakespam.
Ten games each.
Vs Tau.
The Tau list had three riptides, a drop squad of Melta suits, some FW, Pathfinders, Missilesides and a couple of HH.
All of these games were very bloody. T1, I bombed up the board and popped smoke on everything except the Achilles. I used this to fire it's TFC into the infantry, which decimated his FWs and killed off the entire PF squad, which was good as I wanted to keep cover for my Vindicators and Achilles. The Lascannon squads did well by putting some hurt on one of the Riptides. Tau first turns involved rallying of some units. Then the utter annihilation began. The Missilesides and Riptides just erased my Transports and the HH bombed in and exploded both Vindicators with Rail Cannons. So much for smoke launchers. Second turns involved one or both Stormtalon coming on... And one of them getting blown out of the sky with Missileside interceptor shots.
But in return I always killed one Riptide and severely mauled another with a combination of shots from what was left of my infantry and their Plasma Guns/Lascannons and a surviving Stormtalon if both came on. The split fire on the LRA helped too. Again the TFC destroyed the infantry. My opponent never had more than two squads of FW on the board past Turn 2. Tau T2 involved the drops of Melta Suits plus commander. As they could do nothing vs my LRA, they opted to go after my Lascannon squads holding rear objective. It was a massacre for the squad targeted by mass Fusion Guns and Plasma Rifles. The remaining Riptide with its pie plate cannon thing ripped my PG squads to bits as they were quite close together. Then the worst thing that could happen, would happen... A pair of HH Rail Cannon rounds... Straight through one end and out the other of the LRA. The IWND and Tech guys can't help vs this. T3 was a moot point as I had very little to do. Tabled or conceded EOT 3.
IH 1 - 9 Tau.
The one game was a sheer fluke as my opponent had incredibly bad dice rolls.
VS Eldar...
This was a very strong Iyanden list, filled with WG in Scatter Serpents, 2 WK, SS and a Squad of 10 Reapers.
I think the Reapers are a new addition to combat MEQ as my opponent never used them before.
My opponent is a very aggressive Eldar player and pretty much rammed his army down my throat. I greatly underestimated this army when it came to firepower and forgot that the HDCannons on the WK aren't lance shots and that those WK are insanely fast. The Serpent shields were annoying as they kept saving against Lascannon shots and causing glances. Their weapons were too much for my Razorbacks and I couldn't make a single IWND roll on my tanks. The reapers for the first couple of turns in each game did very little except shoot at the rearguard Lascannon squads. Even the ruins were very little help vs this huge amount of anti MEQ fire.
On T2, things go bad. Those WK always end up popping the Vindicators and I just don't have enough firepower to take the WK down. Starting to wish I took Grav Weapons as this would have helped vs Tau and Eldar.
On T3 I ended up losing the LRA to both WK and the WG in the Serpents mop up the infantry.
IH 0 - 10 Eldar.
Still yet to beat an Eldar army in 25 years of gaming.
I didn't know how good those WK are. Very very strong and the Cannons just mulch tanks.
Vs Drakespam.
This is an army I play against a lot and have won with my Orks and DW.
Typical Drakespam list. Three Drakes, lots of Nurgle stuff and Obliterators.
These games went really really well. His Drakes couldn't touch the juicy insides of the Razorbacks, so they made a beeline for my rearguard Lascannon squads. I made sure the Obliterators never had LOS to my Vindicators and I gave the Chaos player the chance to pop the LRA which he just couldn't do. In each game, I managed to get my Vinicators up the board to dispense holy trash can sized shells of death on the PM and obliterators. I think I got lucky shots on the Rhinos carrying the PM as out of ten games, I had popped all three in the second turn in seven or eight of them, which left them dangerously open for Demolisher shots.
In the games I lost, the opponent DS his Obliterators near my tanks and used Melta Weapons against them. Always Vindicators first. When I learnt the tactic, I countered by putting a razorback tight in to the sides of the Vindicators.
The Stormtalons helped a lot vs the Drakes and I always opted to go second. There wasn't a game where he had a full compliment of Drakes on the table at the same time.
All in all, very close games.
IH 6 - 4 Drakespam.
Verdict:
IWND does not help vs Tau or Eldar!!! Rail Cannons and HD Cannons kill indiscriminately and make a mockery what is the toughest tank in the game. You need the PFG here to shield from these attacks. Come to think of it IWND doesn't really help at all. If an opponent wants to kill a tank, they will with extreme anti tank firepower. IWND also doesn't help vs half range Melta.
If you can get a Dread into combat with IWND, then you are in a good place, but it's so freekin difficult to get there vs these three armies, hence why I don't recommend Dread Drop with IH, but YMMV.
Also... TAKE GRAV WEAPONS!!! My army was TAC and I missed Grav Weapons. If I had them, I could have put out more hurt.
I don't think the Achilles is going to be great in competitive. There are waaaaay too many answers to it in the top lists.
TBH, I don't think IH can compete.
That title belongs to White Scars and their relentless Grav Weapons.
It's been fun, I've tested as much as I wanted and I now know Marines are not for me. Too fragile. I'd even say, most fragile army in game as 3+ is easy to get around and you lack numbers.
It's a shame really, as Marines have some of my favourite models and fluff.
Oh well... Back to Tyranids.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and if you're going to spam vehicles... For the love of the Emperor... Spam Land Raiders... The Rhino chassis doesn't cut it.
Good morning Sir , dont give up the IH so fast, IMO they do their best in AV14 range, if you think about the killer ICs nowerdays witch ones are the best? R4, 3+/4++ enrgy weapon ones or R5 2+/3++ F10fp2 eternal warrior ones?
It happen the same with armor, AV14 and achilles special rules makes IWND go over the top.
AV14 spawn would have been good enought with new HQ and troop cheap cost, going IH is just a little help, the key of the army are the spam of 7 av14 targets in the field from turn 1. You could not imagine the funny things those 2 batteries of Battlecanon fortifications can do for just 170 pts.......
On a side note we all knew this edition is not good for transports, it havent changed at all, I still think that the best army with new C:SM is the ravenwing with WS allies, but i also think Sick Raider spam can reach tier 1. Last year I played the whole season with my 3 Dragons, 3Vendettas, 3 Vindicators, 3Hydras, 2 vanilla chaos marines squats, Bastion with comm relay, CCS, Infantery Platoon in vendettas, all in 2000 points. Nobody believed it could work but it did, trust me.
I think you might have been unlucky there vs Tau and Eldar. The IH can crunch the Eldar and Tau, focus on their infantry, TFC's will get rid of the Marker Lights, then take Predator Annhilators in cover on your base line, taking out riptides, Crisis suits, wraithknights is priority one. The means moving quickly and hitting them, Landspeeders with Multi-melta's, Bikes with Grav Guns, Storm Talon's with TL-LAS.
But conventional Heavy Tanks? Nope. You need a Storm Eagle or something to drop an assault squad where you want it, boom, bye, bye Big walker.
Also Scouts in LSS with Melta bombs or a PF. Zoom in, kaboom. Nothing in 40k is invulnerable or perfect Synergy takes a while.
Keep at it mate, you've given me some thoughts and things to consider, which is why I love forums. Sometimes someone points out something and it totally changes your perspective. Like the day i learned to take a PF and Combi-Flamer on my Sergeants.
As much as I like Tanks, seeing more than two LR just seems... Meh.
It echoes power gaming to me.
If anyone likes spamming, all the power to you.
It's just not for me.
As for this codex, there is something I don't like about it. I really liked the 5th ed one because you could use the characters as counts as for other chapters. In this one, you can't.
There's other little things too, but my biggest gripe is how fragile a marine is. These guys are supposed to be the elite of the emperor and right now, 170 pts of Tactical squad get slaughtered by 170 pts of just about anything else in a shooting war. Fire Warriors, Avengers, Guardians and especially Guard and Orks.
The Marines just seem to be the weakest Troops choice now and the army as a whole seems like its turned from being quite resilient and having ok firepower, to a couple of units with good firepower and no resilience.
My friends I play test with say the same and they also say that out of the new book, only White Scars are coming out as competitive.
Everyone keeps mentioning that the achilles is invincible... apart from to absolutely anything with haywire. If an achilles is run against necrons an RDI with 4 stormteks will score 4 and a bit hull points and thats AFTER a 4++ save from DA equipment. And 4 stormteks come in at 100pts.
If they aren't running an RDI then they may run a silver horde - achilles dies to mass gauss glances.
Wraith wing - 3++ save makes the multimeltas far less effective and their rending will rip it to pieces.
Scarab farm - enough said.
If facing necrons you will HAVE to run lots of cheap boots on the ground to shield the achilles, and if you run 2, you might as well not set up.
Against any other army then the achilles is amazing, but against many necron builds its a liability.
Then necrons are truely the achilles heel.
Not many necron players use the stormtek hq , most prefeer dual wraithwing some NS with few warriors on them and anihilation barge, still you could survive that army moving back to back within the battleground borders and forcing the tech squad to make some risky DS jumps. Ive done it before agains Suicide melta crisis and they got bigger firing range. Necrons will be a thought game but I think we got the winning hand agains them.
Mate, powergaming have a lot to do with the way you play and few with the way you build army lists. Competitive enviroment force you to use the best you have, spamming unnits like Land raiders that almost nobody nowerdays uses doesnt feel like abusing anything.... Also a Land raider Achiles, a Land Raider Terminus and a Land Raider Crusader only have in comun the name and the AV14 cause they are so diferent and have so diferent uses as a tactical, an assault and a devastator marine squad.
KingCronan wrote: I have to say I am severely disappointed in the lack of terminators in these Iron hand lists! They are supposed to be one of the most Terminatorin chapters this side of the galactic Mississippi!
Fluff wise, they have the least cause of all they lost on a certain world.
KingCronan wrote: I have to say I am severely disappointed in the lack of terminators in these Iron hand lists! They are supposed to be one of the most Terminatorin chapters this side of the galactic Mississippi!
Fluff wise, they have the least cause of all they lost on a certain world.
There is a common mis-conception here, the Iron Hands Legion was not all at Istvaan. Ferrus took the best units he had to hand e.g all the Veterans, he didn't take the whole legion.
Not all veterans have Terminator Armour and not all Terminator Armour is in the hands of Veterans (this is a product of later times when Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes). So a significant number (read Hundreds or possibly Thousands) of TDA suits would have survived with other Iron Hand Chapters on Deployment.
So even though they got hammered, a good portion of the Legion was still out in the galaxy although devastated that the Boss was "supposedly dead"
Although...
Spoiler:
In Angel Exterminatus, Ferrus's Head is the hands of Fabius Bile and they are having a conversation, so how he's still alive minus his body I have no idea? Standby for yet another RET-CON
In Angel Exterminatus, Ferrus's Head is the hands of Fabius Bile and they are having a conversation, so how he's still alive minus his body I have no idea? Standby for yet another RET-CON
Four things:
Spoiler:
1) Fabius Bile is freaking crazy.
2) BIONICS
3) The Warp
4) Something to do with his C'Tan Shard hands. Perhaps the living metal was more pervasive than we were led to believe; after all, there's precedent for living metal looking like human flesh if the bearer wanted it to be so.
I'm curious if we can use contemptor dreads at tiournaments now? Contemptor Dreadnought - Twin-Linked Lascannon, Havoc Missile Launcher for 215 or Kheris Assault Cannons for 180 with IWND would really solve our AA issues.
felixcat wrote: I'm curious if we can use contemptor dreads at tiournaments now? Contemptor Dreadnought - Twin-Linked Lascannon, Havoc Missile Launcher for 215 or Kheris Assault Cannons for 180 with IWND would really solve our AA issues.
Tournaments are coming around to FW but not all of them. You have to check when you are signing up if they allow FW then you get to go to town. But more and more tournaments seems to be allowing allowing FW these days
I see some lists taking the upgrade: Power Axe.
The rule for Servo Arm was in the 5th codex one extra power fist attack. Now it is a complete Power fist: 2x str, special weapon and unvieldy with unlimited attacks.
So the only reason to use an Axe is the extra attack from the pistol. But with str 5.
And if you get the Servo Harnes, you will get an extra Servo Arm. Thats basicly two Power Fists and no reason at all to get the Power Axe upgrade.
Motf has another strange thing. If you get the convention beamer you replace the complete Servo Harness.
Now the Motf doesn't have any Servo Arms at all. But he can still repair, because the rule Blessing of Omnomnom.
The blessing only gets +1 on the roll for a Servo Harness, so obviously you don't need a Servo Arm at all to repair.
Kain wrote: Iron Hands Achilles Land Raiders and Spartans are going to make people cry cheese for quite a while, drive up a PFG and a Techmarine/MoTF next to them to maximize tears and butthurt.
Did you somehow get a hullpoint off my AV14 all around melta and lance immune tank that forces you to roll -1 on the damage table? Lemme roll that away.
Want to try ignoring it? Nope, Thunderfire cannon.
Get close? Nope, multimeltas.
Sure it's expensive at 325 points, but it's never going down and is going to be a pain in the ass all game long.
One of my good friends brings normally undying Achillies full of techmarines/MOTF against me fairly often. Occassionally he fields two, but haywire grenades kill them far too effectively. Taking 5+ glancing hits in one phase will kill it no matter how much IWND and repairs it can make.
I would imagine newcron guass would also kill them with ease.
It's been fun, I've tested as much as I wanted and I now know Marines are not for me. Too fragile. I'd even say, most fragile army in game as 3+ is easy to get around and you lack numbers.
It's a shame really, as Marines have some of my favourite models and fluff.
Maybe this is GW's way of holding to Grim Dark, since apparently there is no hope for the Emperor's Finest versus Xenos/Chaos.
I think if you "lack numbers" in a Marine army, you're probably doing it wrong-- I generally start with 30 Tactical Marines at 1000 points and build up from there.
I don't play 
Iron Hands 2,000!!! 
