I love Sisters. I love tanks. Given the lack of proper turreted main battle tanks in Sisters codices to date, these two loves have torn me in twain – but no longer!

[UPDATE: The final (?) versions of all these units -- and two dozen others -- are now in my Sororitas fandex/expandnex]


tl,dr:
- Oriflamme Scout Tank: basically an underarmoured Hellhound that has BS:4 and can Scout (and therefore costs more).
- Sororitas Predator: Basically a Predator Infernus that can upgrade to an Inferno Cannon (as on the IG Devil Dog) or, worse yet, an Avenger Bolt Cannon (yes, the thing that Navy strike fighters carry).
- Exorcists get a host of alternative ammo options, including small blasts, Skyfire, extended range, and a short-range “melta missile” with Armourbane.
- Firing flamers at Cruising Speed is back! (“Drive-By Purification” SR).
- Laud Hailers are back!
- 6++ save is no longer free (sorry) but can be bought as an upgrade (“Sacramental Armour”).

Constructive criticism is welcomed, vitriolic abuse is tolerated, and glowing compliments are encouraged.

[EDIT: These rules have been significantly revised in response to the great feedback from this thread: The new versions are on page three.]


Army Special Rules

Armour of Contempt


Drive-By Purification



Vehicles

Oriflamme Scout Tank (Fast Attack): 150 points
Oriflamme BS:4 Armour:12/11/10 Hull Points:3


Sororitas Predator (Heavy Support): 100 points
Sororitas Predator: BS4 Armour: 13/11/10 Hull Points:3


Exorcist alternative ammunition
Any Exorcist may load its Exorcist Missile Launcher with one and only one of the following types of ammunition, changing the weapon’s profile:



Sororitas vehicle upgrades:

We approve of this.

Thanks, Kalashnikov -- that's one of my favorite weapons too (you can bury it in sand, retrieve it years later, clean it, & it still fires!), a fine example of Russian engineering, but even better is the T-34/85, the best tank of World War II.....

Yes, I love tanks. Did I mention that?

Why would we have to pay for the 6++?

Why does the pred have both front and sponson weapons, out of curiosity?

 pretre wrote:
Why would we have to pay for the 6++?

Why does the pred have both front and sponson weapons, out of curiosity?

Wanted to mention the pred hull weapons too. Also, the design notes for the oriflamme state that the disadvantage of the heavy flamer not benefiting from the +1 BS is offset by the drive-by rule, yet the drive-by rule says it doesn't affect fast vehicles, so the oriflamme wouldn't benefit. Should it be any vehicle moving over 12" doesn't benefit- that would solve the issue?
Oh, and 10pts to upgrade a S6 AP3 flamer to a S6 AP4 flamer, with torrent, seems a lot. More range, but worse AP. 5pts maybe?

I also don't think I would ever take the long range missiles, for up to 6 S4 shots with no blast. Seems way worse than the standard missiles, for 15pts. Maybe keep them as S8, with the reduced AP? Or possibly improve the AP too, AP3 maybe.

All good points... including a whoops on my part with costing.

As for why no free 6++: Because no other army gets a free save on its tanks -- as long as the Sisters tank selections were horribly limited , free 6++ seemed a reasonable consolation prize, but with a proper tank inventory, it seems a bit much. Also "Armour of Contempt" includes a Deny the Witch bonus, not just 6++, so it's worth more.

Very good point about sponsons being the go-to for Predators' secondary weapons -- I'm probably thinking too much in WWII and modern terms, where every MBT has coaxial and/or hull-mounted MGs, but arguably I should nix that....

Thanks all! Keep the critiques coming, I learn from every one.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Very good point about sponsons being the go-to for Predators' secondary weapons -- I'm probably thinking too much in WWII and modern terms, where every MBT has coaxial and/or hull-mounted MGs, but arguably I should nix that....

Well, also in IG terms, all Russes get hull pintle and sponson mounts, the Vanquisher and Conqueror can get co-ax mounts too with FW rules One hell of a lot of dakka can come out of one Russ...

Vehicle upgrades

Suggest adding Searchlight plus

Holy Icon: Any friendly unit within 6” of the vehicle adds 1 to its Leadership for the purposes of Morale and Pinning
checks up to a maximum of 10. Multiple Holy Icons are not cumulative

Truesilver Armour: If a Daemon or psyker succeeds in hitting this vehicle in close combat, it suffers a Strength 6 hit for each hit once damage has been resolved against the vehicle.

 SisterSydney wrote:
As for why no free 6++: Because no other army gets a free save on its tanks -- as long as the Sisters tank selections were horribly limited , free 6++ seemed a reasonable consolation prize, but with a proper tank inventory, it seems a bit much. Also "Armour of Contempt" includes a Deny the Witch bonus, not just 6++, so it's worth more.

It is a defining feature of the army now though. Also, I wouldn't pay 15 points for it.

Looks allright to me. Like I said, I can't help too much with the rules, but they seem decent enough. Lots of options, which is nice.

Also, typo in Drive by Purification. You said "is equally only by".

There is a limit on how far you can change a pred and still call it by that name. One turret system and a pair of sponsons behind an AV13 front plate. Drop the pair of hull mounted HBs, they break the mold of what can be done on that chassis. IMHO Sisters should stick with the rhino chassis, with all the baggage that come with it. It's not the be-all of armor, but if you want heavy MBTs, call in the guard, that's their job. Sisters share the same MO as marines, which puts a limit on what kind of tanks you should field.

I'd also drop the rear armor bustle. Rear weak armor is found on a lot of tanks. It's a balancing factor in the game. Having an upgrade that lets you ignore one of the primary weakness of armor is not a good idea. For what it's worth, I feel the same way about ceremite armor, which a lot of people slap on tanks. I'd actually be OK with sisters getting ceramite, ironically. If anyone knows the need to protect armor from meltas, it's the gals of the SoB.

That's actually not a bad idea. Ceramite armored tanks. Something new.

Maybe:
12/11/10 with Ceramite Plating

Makes a nice mid range that is resistant to melta.

I'm with Petre, the 6++ is coming from the crew in the tank, not the tank itself, so why are we paying for it? Grey Knights don't pay to use psychic powers in their vehicles.

Rules look alright, but the Pred should be cheaper and make the sponsons optional so they can be taken at lower point games.

I don't see a point in bringing up Salamanders honestly in your fluff. It just seems like your biting your thumb at them for no reason (especially when Blood Angels are the ones with a Fast Flamer tank).

That said, Gets Hot is meh in my mind. The old rule was flamers didn't need to be as precisely aimed because their AOE weapons, making them easier to get in the right "general direction", even at speed. Gets Hot tells me that somehow the weapon is getting hotter, but even when moving the liquid fuel in a flamethrower goes where you aim it because it's being forced out in that direction, it doesn't magically fire backwards on you. And where the fuel goes, the fire follows.

Make them fast when using Flamers instead. It's much less pants.

Oh yeah, and points are a bit too high across the board but that's just me.

 pretre wrote:
That's actually not a bad idea. Ceramite armored tanks. Something new.

Maybe:
12/11/10 with Ceramite Plating

Makes a nice mid range that is resistant to melta.

I had an idea for a FA slot tank that had that statline (not the Ceramite Plating though). Idea was that it was a modification of the Immolator that traded the carry capacity for extra gun and armor. The idea was that the Avenger Bolt Cannons, Inferno Cannon and Melta Cannon were its weapon options.

All three are fluffy weapon types and are heavier than what is "standard" so it seemed fitting to go with them.

I think the Flamer one also exploded bigger and had a chance to explode even when wrecked (offset by a lower points cost)

I never did come up with a good name for it, and "Heavy Immolator" sounds silly.

Lots of good ideas here. I'll definitely drop the hull-mounted heavy bolters on the Predator and stick to sponsons (and those are optional, by the way), and I'll probably drop the "gets hot" bit in the "Drive-By Purification" rule.

I'll still tempted by the AV+1 to rear armor upgrade, though. There's definitely a precedent in some of the Leman Russ variants -- although of course that's a significantly bigger tank.

Also, it still strikes me as odd that vehicles get a 6++ for free: That makes a Sororitas Rhino, for example, significantly better than a Marine Rhino that costs the same number of points.

For infantry models, the benefit of army-wide special rules is supposed to be considered towards their points cost, right? So why not for vehicles? Or do I truly misunderstand how that works?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I never did come up with a good name for it, and "Heavy Immolator" sounds silly.

How about Conflagrator?

 SisterSydney wrote:
Lots of good ideas here. I'll definitely drop the hull-mounted heavy bolters on the Predator and stick to sponsons (and those are optional, by the way), and I'll probably drop the "gets hot" bit in the "Drive-By Purification" rule.

I'll still tempted by the AV+1 to rear armor upgrade, though. There's definitely a precedent in some of the Leman Russ variants -- although of course that's a significantly bigger tank.

Also, it still strikes me as odd that vehicles get a 6++ for free: That makes a Sororitas Rhino, for example, significantly better than a Marine Rhino that costs the same number of points.

For infantry models, the benefit of army-wide special rules is supposed to be considered towards their points cost, right? So why not for vehicles? Or do I truly misunderstand how that works?

Marine rhinos can get some army wide options as well, depending on chapter tactics. IWND from Iron Hands or Scout for being the DT of a ravenguard squad. We also get smoke/searchlights for free, not sure if you still need to pay for those.

That's a very good point about Chapter Tactics, and the Faith rules are basically our equivalent of those. I Exalt thee.

 SisterSydney wrote:
That's a very good point about Chapter Tactics, and the Faith rules are basically our equivalent of those. I Exalt thee.

I'd like to re-point out that Grey Knights pay no extra fee for their ability to use psychic powers on their vehicles either (removes shaken/stunned).

So yeah, it's really not that odd for it to be basically free.

Ok, I'm convinced.

Sydney, that typo is still there!

Yes, that sort of thing bothers me.

I started life as a copy-editor and then married one, so I appreciate the importance of stamping out typos. (My current editor, on the other hand....). Fixed it now.

Not all the suggested fixes have been incorporated (The Predator still has the hull-bolters), for example. :p

My main problem is with the Avenger Bolt Cannons. That thing is massive. I could see it being put in as a Hull Mount, like the Vindicator's Demolisher Cannon, but attempting to Turret it? The turret would be the same length as the tank!

Thus, rather than your Sororitas Predator with ABC turret, I propose the following;

Sororitas Supressor (Heavy Support): 120 points
Sororitas Supressor: BS4 Armour: 13/11/10 Hull Points:3


Since I'm here, I may as well throw this one at you.

Infernus Assault Vehicle (100 pts) Fast Attack, or Dedicated Transport for a Dominion squad.
BS4; Armour: 13/12/10 Hull Points:3

Some very nice ideas.

I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out the length of the Avenger cannon and whether it could fit in a turret, actually -- if anyone has an Avenger fighter model and could measure that'd be very helpful, I couldn't figure out from pics whether it went most of the length of the aircraft (as on its inspiration the A-10) or not. That would determine if it's turretable.

And the Sisters definitely need an assault transport, albeit not a Marine-only monster like the Land Raider.

I'm not sure the Repressor works as a chassis for either , though, since the engine is presumably in front, which blocks any assault ramp or a forward-firing cannon....

Re: predator guns

The autocannon originated as the predator's main gun, at a time when predators were GW's only turreted, conventional looking tank. It absolutely wrecked marines.

I get that the predator does not seem like it has a real tank gun. It really really does, though, it's just that the AP system makes it seem impotent against marines. OFC, the autocannon is currently used as a anti aircraft gun, and power armor is basically the weight of aircraft armor.

anyway, the avenger cannon seems a bit big.

The bustle can be automatically included, instead of an option, the way all blood angels' tanks have lucifer pattern engines. I think if a rule is not very closely themed for fire or nuns, the list shouldn't make players spend a lot of time thinking about it.

If you're going to keep uparmored tanks, just make all tanks come that way.

I think one reason rhinos have only side armor 11, despite being very good technology, is the structural consequences of having pocket doors in the side. If they are going to have riot armor, they should just get bonuses against low str, high ap, or close-range attacks.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Some very nice ideas.

I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out the length of the Avenger cannon and whether it could fit in a turret, actually -- if anyone has an Avenger fighter model and could measure that'd be very helpful, I couldn't figure out from pics whether it went most of the length of the aircraft (as on its inspiration the A-10) or not. That would determine if it's turretable.

And the Sisters definitely need an assault transport, albeit not a Marine-only monster like the Land Raider.

I'm not sure the Repressor works as a chassis for either , though, since the engine is presumably in front, which blocks any assault ramp or a forward-firing cannon....

The IAV isn't an assault transport, lol. Its ramp is at the back - the idea is that it breaks through the blockade and the troops inside only disembark when they get to their high-value target.

Anyway, the Repressor is a Rhino chassis, and the Vindicator proves that you can hull mount a large gun on a Rhino chassis, meaning that the engine is not, in fact, at the front.

I believe the old cutaway art showed that the Rhino in fact has two engines, situated above the tracks in the side panels.

I don't have any FW books. Is the avenger cannon you are talking about the same one that the DA flyer uses? Because that one looks stubby enough to pack into a turret.

Many good points (and doh is me about Furyou's Repressor variant not having "assault vehicle," I read that before I had my coffee...).

1.
I don't have access to a Dark Angels codex, but the Avenger I'm talking about is an Imperial Navy flier I've only seen in Imperial Armour Aeronautica thus far; the gun is basically a super heavy bolter with 36" range and 7 shots. (Mods, please note, I did not give away all the stats there, you'd have to reference an official publication for Strength and AP).

2.
As for engines blocking guns and ramps, once again I'm thinking too much in terms of modern AFVs with fossil-fuel engines and bulky transmissions. Heck, even the Army's prototype hybrid-electric Future Combat System AFV had two engines, one on each side above the track.

3.
And bustles make sense as an automatic upgrade from the standard Predator, without the finicky little rule about potential immobilization. That makes it worth a few more points, since you can now Flat Out without fear.

4.
The standard Predator options don't fit the Sisters: they don't use autocannons or lascannons.


Finally, I realize the many Brits on this board may misinterpret me because of our not-quite-shared language. When I say someone's ideas are "interesting," I mean that in the American sense of "I am interested in what you say and it may change my thinking on this matter," not in the English sense of "your remarks are so imbecilic that I wish you an agonizing death but am I too well-bred to say so." I had a lovely English girlfriend (Northerner) long ago and she was stricken when I told her something she said was "interesting."

I always said the GAU-8 Avenger (the real 30mm auto cannon) should have been mounted to vehicles. That's pure feth off at the rapid rate.

 SisterSydney wrote:

...
1.
I don't have access to a Dark Angels codex, but the Avenger I'm talking about is an Imperial Navy flier I've only seen in Imperial Armour Aeronautica thus far; the gun is basically a super heavy bolter with 36" range and 7 shots. (Mods, please note, I did not give away all the stats there, you'd have to reference an official publication for Strength and AP).
...

The Avenger Mega Bolter from the Nephilim is like a non-rending assault cannon with twice the range and an extra shot. And a straight swap for a TLLC for pricing. So not the same thing, but probably a good turret weapon.

Why not use the Avenger Bolt Cannon from the Avenger Strike Fighter? That gun is INSANE!

Lucarikx

I believe that is what Sister Sydney of the Holy Order of the Bloody Wrench was talking about.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Some very nice ideas.

I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out the length of the Avenger cannon and whether it could fit in a turret, actually -- if anyone has an Avenger fighter model and could measure that'd be very helpful, I couldn't figure out from pics whether it went most of the length of the aircraft (as on its inspiration the A-10) or not. That would determine if it's turretable.

And the Sisters definitely need an assault transport, albeit not a Marine-only monster like the Land Raider.

I'm not sure the Repressor works as a chassis for either , though, since the engine is presumably in front, which blocks any assault ramp or a forward-firing cannon....

The Avenger Bolt Cannon (on the Avenger) is around 2" counting the "plug" bit on the back used for mounting it.

I think an Outflanking Hellhound is a little over the top, but that's just me. :-P

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
I think an Outflanking Hellhound is a little over the top, but that's just me. :-P

Play Guard and take Creed. You can outflank a SQUADRON of them (3 of them). One ain't so bad.

I really like the suggestions. I always thought, the sisters to have a bit too restricted options in vehicles...
A favourite of mine are the different types of ammo for the Exorcist.^^

I don't. That's metal.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
I think an Outflanking Hellhound is a little over the top, but that's just me. :-P

I believe by "a little over the top" you mean to say "FETHING AWESOME HOOAAAH."

Also, see point about Creed outflanking three of them at a time.

I actually originally conceived this vehicle as fire support for Scouting/Outflanking Dominions in Immolators, by the way. Because a girl can never have too much FIRE.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Avenger Bolt Cannon (on the Avenger) is around 2" counting the "plug" bit on the back used for mounting it.

Yep, that's the gun I'm talking about. Even assuming the model part represents only half the gun, and the half is fully inside the fuseleage, that sounds like a weapon that can fit in a Predator turret. Maybe a weirdly shaped Predator turret with an extended back that overhangs (e.g. like the current US Army M1 Abrams), but doable.

Comparing it to the Thunderbolt, where only the very tip of the gun is exposed, surely you'd think the Bolt Cannon runs back along the length of the aircraft?

In any case, it's basically half a Vulcan Megabolter, so the best comparison for length might be the warhound titan arm.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Comparing it to the Thunderbolt, where only the very tip of the gun is exposed, surely you'd think the Bolt Cannon runs back along the length of the aircraft?

In any case, it's basically half a Vulcan Megabolter, so the best comparison for length might be the warhound titan arm.

No it's not, the Vulcan Megabolter is fatter. I think the barrel length is just fine for what it is (1" is rougly 6-7' in the scale we have, so it's 12-14' long) and what's in the body of the aircraft is the feed and firing mechanisms.

Yeah, the Megabolter is way bigger and has not only more range but significantly better S and AP than standard bolter weapons (I believe the Avenger has the same S & AP as heavy bolters).

It's also worth noting that the real-life A-10's GAU is a tank-buster, while the Avenger fighter's ABC is not, it's a power-armoured-infantry murderer. So it may well be smaller relative to the aircraft carrying it.

So the Avenger Bolt Cannon ("the alphabet gun") should fit in a tank turret, though arguably you should convert your Predators with a bigger turret than the standard bitty one.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Yeah, the Megabolter is way bigger and has not only more range but significantly better S and AP than standard bolter weapons (I believe the Avenger has the same S & AP as heavy bolters).

So the Avenger Bolt Cannon ("the alphabet gun") should fit in a tank turret, though arguably you should convert your Predators with a bigger turret than the standard bitty one.

Size is insignificant on the tabletop. The SM infantry lascannon is ~25% smaller than the tank lascannon and still has the same profile. You can have a scaled-down Avenger Mega Bolter that fits into the turret and everyone should deal with it. Also, personal note: the ABC sucks, so go with the AMB if you want awesomeness .

And two vehicles from the motor-pool of our SoB player (he actually uses both of them quite frequently):

Redemptor / Fast Attack / 150 points
BS 4 / FA 13 / SA 12 / RA 11 / HP 3 / Vehicle (Fast, Tank)
Wargear: Twin-Linked Inferno Cannon (turret mounted), Smoke Launchers
Special Rules: Shield of Faith
Options:
- Replace TL Inferno Cannon with TL Melta Cannon or TL Avanger Mega Bolter for free
- Vehicle equipment options as normal (Extra Armour, Storm Bolter, Searchlight, Dozer Blade, HK Missile)

Deliverer / Heavy Support / 150 points
BS 4 / FA 14 / SA 12 / RA 11 / Vehicle (Tank)
Wargear: Macro Cannon (hull mounted), Smoke Launchers
Special Rules: Shield of Faith
Options:
- Replace macro cannon with demolisher cannon or eradicator nova cannon for free
- May take a siege shield for +10 points
- Normal vehicle equipment options (Extra Armour, Storm Bolter, Searchlight, Dozer Blade, HK Missile)

The Redemptor is a fast assault tank that can dish out some pretty serious firepower. The Deliverer is the large blast love tank, because the girls lack large blasts.

The Avenger Bolt Cannon (Avenger Strike Fighter) is S6 AP3, while the Avenger Megabolter on the Nephilim is S6 AP4 and a Heavy Bolter is S5 AP4. When I say the Bolt Cannon is half a Vulcan Megabolter, I'm talking stat-wise as well as appearance-wise - it's the same gun with half the shots (rounding down).

So, Atomaki, I'm really not sure where you get the idea that the AMB is better than the ABC - it doesn't auto-kill Marines, while the ABC does.

The Bolt Cannon is billed as an anti-tank weapon though.

Putting the toned-down AP4 megabolter on a tank turret might work, I guess?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Avenger Bolt Cannon (Avenger Strike Fighter) is S6 AP3, while the Avenger Megabolter on the Nephilim is S6 AP4 and a Heavy Bolter is S5 AP4. When I say the Bolt Cannon is half a Vulcan Megabolter, I'm talking stat-wise as well as appearance-wise - it's the same gun with half the shots (rounding down).

So, Atomaki, I'm really not sure where you get the idea that the AMB is better than the ABC - it doesn't auto-kill Marines, while the ABC does.

The Bolt Cannon is billed as an anti-tank weapon though.

Putting the toned-down AP4 megabolter on a tank turret might work, I guess?

If you want a big bolter as a capstone for the holy trinity, I'd stick with one of the AP4 ones. While Xenos might pack large amounts of AP3 stuff, it's pretty rare on the imperial side. AP 3 to 4 is a big line to cross, and AP 3 doesn't really say "bolter" to me, even if there are a few that exist.

Leave the ABC on the fighter. The AMB sounds like a better fit for a tank anyway, IMHO.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Avenger Bolt Cannon (Avenger Strike Fighter) is S6 AP3, while the Avenger Megabolter on the Nephilim is S6 AP4 and a Heavy Bolter is S5 AP4. When I say the Bolt Cannon is half a Vulcan Megabolter, I'm talking stat-wise as well as appearance-wise - it's the same gun with half the shots (rounding down).

So, Atomaki, I'm really not sure where you get the idea that the AMB is better than the ABC - it doesn't auto-kill Marines, while the ABC does.

The Bolt Cannon is billed as an anti-tank weapon though.

Putting the toned-down AP4 megabolter on a tank turret might work, I guess?

No, put the ABC on the tank, but shorten it's range to 24" to compensate.

Sisters need some weapons that can butcher Marines.

The only way I'd accept the AMB is if it where TL.

 ClockworkZion wrote:


No, put the ABC on the tank, but shorten it's range to 24" to compensate.

Sisters need some weapons that can butcher Marines.

The only way I'd accept the AMB is if it where TL.

If you want a short/medium range marine killer, put a flamestorm cannon with torrent in the turret. 12" torrent plus the ~8" of the template gives you an effective range of 20" And much more SoB then finding the one bolter based weapon that happens to be AP3 and tweaking it until it fits.

But IMHO SoB is more about killing MEQ by forcing them to make a lot of saves, rather then cutting through armor. Barring meta that is.

Here is a thought for an upgrade: Retributor crew: Tank becomes a faithfull unit and gets the rending act of faith (whatever it's called) This works best for tanks in the HS slot, you could shoehorn the other acts of faith onto other tanks as well.

Nevelon, while that is true now, why can't Sisters also have stuff to cut through Marine armor? It's not like they're the only 3+ Sisters would have to face, and Sisters do also have the duty of murdering Space Marines when asked.

That's right, Clockwork! Murdering Marines is everybody's job!
KIDS: Now we know!
SISTER JO: And knowing is half the battle!

It's not just "Marines the Ecclesiarchy and/or Ordo Hereticus has a beef with," either. It's renegade Chapters and fething Traitor Legions, some of which have a particular fondness for defiling holy sites (yes, I'm looking at you, Word Bearers). That is a lot of Sv3+ Sisters have to deal with. AP 4 Firestorm cannon and AMBs don't hack it as heavy infantry killers.

Cutting the ABC's range to 24" in the tank-mounted version I could live with, though, as a balance thing and to keep with the "come with two feet and we will fething end you" theme of the army. Fluffwise you could say the barrel has to be cut down to fit in the tank so you lose range.

Blast artillery seems out of keeping with the army, though, Automaki: A shortage of blasts is one of the Sisters' defining weaknesses, like S3 T3, and I'm leery of over correcting at the cost of army character and game balance.

On the other hand your friend's TL infernos look appropriately terrifying.

And, Nevelon, upgrading your tanks to have a Rending AOF? Yes please.

I suppose AP3, few things more wonderful then mowing down grunts with anti-material weapons. Just ask snipers with M82s and Warthog drivers.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Nevelon, while that is true now, why can't Sisters also have stuff to cut through Marine armor? It's not like they're the only 3+ Sisters would have to face, and Sisters do also have the duty of murdering Space Marines when asked.

Then why not just give them plasma?

Let me explain a little bit of my philosophy on home-brew stuff. I hold it to a higher standard then the studio material. If you want to add a new unit to you list, it needs to fit the fluff, the world, and the flavor of the army. It also can't make something that is already part of your list obsolete. "I want a tank that can cash marines in rolls" is not a reason to make one. "The SoB should have more then just the exorcist for armor" is a good reason. Once you try to include stuff that stretches or bends the fluff or flavor, little "cheese" alarms go off in my head.

When looking at weapons, the Sisters have a VERY tight theme: the holy trinity. The bolter, flamer, and melta. And while there may be AP3 bolters out there, they are the exception, not the rule. They don't -feel- like bolters to me. And when you are shooting it, it doesn't act like a bolter. Bolters mulch xenos and guard, not power armor.

So when trying to find a big bolter to put in a SoB tank (something I approve of) I'd like one that acts like a bolter. The ABC doesn't. Trying it include it feels more to me like you want something awesome and powerful, rather then thematic and balanced. IMHO it is the job of homebrew stuff to fit in, not make exceptions. Could the Sisters use some AP3 firepower? Sure, who couldn't. Does it fit in with the way the army currently plays? No.

If GW wants to change gears and add new stuff that shakes up an army, that's their job and option. Do I think that chaos needed mecho-demonbots and flying bale flamers? Eldar needed a bigger wraithlord? Nope, not at all. But the studio added them, so I'll change my world view to accommodate them. Do I think SoB need high volume AP3 firepower? Nope. If GW decides to add it, I'll gladly paint up some for my friend's army and make sure I load up on counters for them in my list. But I'll advise against it when people are tossing ideas around.

I don't mean to sound to confrontational. After all, my opinions of house rules don't mean much unless you are in my neck of the woods. If you and your friends think it works, and you have fun, go for it! Just trying to explain my though process...

Nevelon... you're basically saying "Homebrew can't give the army anything it doesn't already have, or even put anything it does have on a different chassis."

The Avenger Bolt Cannon is not only official, it's officially part of the Sisters army. The Avenger Strike Fighter is a Heavy Support choice for us. So why not use it elsewhere?

AP3 bolters stretches back all the way to the original Apocalypse release, anyway. Those and Inferno Guns (the apocalypse flamer) are both high-Strength AP3 versions of our standard weapons.

In any case, I think making the Avenger Bolt Cannon more widespread as a weapon is much fluffier and more thematic than just giving us plasma guns.

Melta missiles: 12"-36" S:8 AP:1 Heavy 1D6, Armourbane: 15 points

Anyone else thing that d6 S8 AP1 armourbane shots is way too over the top? Thats enough firepower to kill numerous land raiders per turn, if it were able to split the shots

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nevelon... you're basically saying "Homebrew can't give the army anything it doesn't already have, or even put anything it does have on a different chassis."

The Avenger Bolt Cannon is not only official, it's officially part of the Sisters army. The Avenger Strike Fighter is a Heavy Support choice for us. So why not use it elsewhere?

AP3 bolters stretches back all the way to the original Apocalypse release, anyway. Those and Inferno Guns (the apocalypse flamer) are both high-Strength AP3 versions of our standard weapons.

In any case, I think making the Avenger Bolt Cannon more widespread as a weapon is much fluffier and more thematic than just giving us plasma guns.

Sums it up nicer than I could say it.

The idea was using something we have (Avenger Bolt Cannon), something that's fluffy (again, BOLT Cannon) and something we can say was improvised in the heat of battle (someone took a broken tank, a crashed Avenger and went A-Team on it and made something AWESOME to fight back against Traitor Marines or something).

Also anyone who talks about the Holy Trinity and then mentions giving Sisters plasma deserves to be flogged.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nevelon... you're basically saying "Homebrew can't give the army anything it doesn't already have, or even put anything it does have on a different chassis."

The Avenger Bolt Cannon is not only official, it's officially part of the Sisters army. The Avenger Strike Fighter is a Heavy Support choice for us. So why not use it elsewhere?

AP3 bolters stretches back all the way to the original Apocalypse release, anyway. Those and Inferno Guns (the apocalypse flamer) are both high-Strength AP3 versions of our standard weapons.

In any case, I think making the Avenger Bolt Cannon more widespread as a weapon is much fluffier and more thematic than just giving us plasma guns.

I probably wasn't as clear as I'd like. The plasma comment was a little uncalled for on my part, an exaggeration to stress my point.

I'm more comfortable taking common pieces and mixing and matching into something new, as long as it fits the fluff and theme. Things like the predator chassis are not uncommon in the imperium, giving it to the SoB is not a big deal. But I would want to see it loaded with core weapons. Don't change up too many things at one time. To me, the ABC is not a core weapon of the SoB. It is a bolter in name only. While FW may be official, I tend to view them as a collection of exceptions. I prefer to take the pulse of an army from the core codex. You can spice it up with FW, but take your cues from the main book.

Apoc AP3 bolters are fine, but I didn't think we were working on that scale in this thread. When I think of bolters, AP3 is not what comes to mind. At least not on a normal 40k scale.

I could ramble on more, but I don't know if it would clear up what I'm thinking, so I'll stop for now

 Dakkamite wrote:

Melta missiles: 12"-36" S:8 AP:1 Heavy 1D6, Armourbane: 15 points

Anyone else thing that d6 S8 AP1 armourbane shots is way too over the top? Thats enough firepower to kill numerous land raiders per turn, if it were able to split the shots

You do realise that they're just slapping Armourbane and reducing the range from the regular Exorcist missile launcher, right? It already fires d6 S8 AP1 shots at 48", BS4.

 Nevelon wrote:
I probably wasn't as clear as I'd like. The plasma comment was a little uncalled for on my part, an exaggeration to stress my point.

I'm more comfortable taking common pieces and mixing and matching into something new, as long as it fits the fluff and theme. Things like the predator chassis are not uncommon in the imperium, giving it to the SoB is not a big deal. But I would want to see it loaded with core weapons. Don't change up too many things at one time. To me, the ABC is not a core weapon of the SoB. It is a bolter in name only. While FW may be official, I tend to view them as a collection of exceptions. I prefer to take the pulse of an army from the core codex. You can spice it up with FW, but take your cues from the main book.

Apoc AP3 bolters are fine, but I didn't think we were working on that scale in this thread. When I think of bolters, AP3 is not what comes to mind. At least not on a normal 40k scale.

I could ramble on more, but I don't know if it would clear up what I'm thinking, so I'll stop for now

And what defines a "core" weapon? We have a lot of variety in just the Imperium and frankly I'd rather see a tank that actually "feels" like a tank than a Predator with a Heavy Bolter turret.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

Melta missiles: 12"-36" S:8 AP:1 Heavy 1D6, Armourbane: 15 points

Anyone else thing that d6 S8 AP1 armourbane shots is way too over the top? Thats enough firepower to kill numerous land raiders per turn, if it were able to split the shots

You do realise that they're just slapping Armourbane and reducing the range from the regular Exorcist missile launcher, right? It already fires d6 S8 AP1 shots at 48", BS4.

Reducing the range and adding a minimum range -- the melta missiles don't arm until 12", so the Exorcist is effectively disarmed at short range.

That said, they are pretty fricking terrifying in that 12"-36" range band, so I'm willing to listen to arguments that they're OP.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And what defines a "core" weapon? We have a lot of variety in just the Imperium and frankly I'd rather see a tank that actually "feels" like a tank than a Predator with a Heavy Bolter turret.

For sisters it's fairly simple: the holy trinity. Flamers, melta, and bolters.

I'll agree that TLHB does not make for a primary armament and that something heftier is needed. My issue here is that the ABC doesn't feel like a bolter, while the AMB does. Put a pair of them In the turret for TL, and I'd be fine. And not out of scale for what tanks pack. The baal pred has TL assault cannons, which is a very similar load.

The giant melta gun on the pred infurnus is not found on any SoB stuff, but I'd have no problems with you having it. It fits the flavor of your army. Same with just about any flame weapon you care to name. It is almost entirely subjective argument. What feels out of character to me might be your bread and butter. YMMV and all that.

We can agree to disagree on what feels right, as long as the heretics get burnt in the end!

No! This is the Imperium of Man, we must resolve even the most minor arguments by prolonged shouting followed by gruesome violence!

(Or: this is the internet, we must trade posts IN ANGRY BLOCK CAPS back and forth repeating our points over and over as our brain cells slowly die).

Alternatively:

LAWHAMMER 40,000: In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only BINDING ARBITRATION.

I don't see how the (forge world) Infernus' mega-melta is any different from the (forge world) avenger's bolt cannon.

Seems like an arbitrary line designed to prevent us having a heavy 7 AP3 gun to me.

Hmm, personally, I think the the AMB would be more predator turret sized than the ABC. Not to mention the other 2 predator options- the flamestorm cannon and magnamelta- both ignore power armour. This would give every turret option the tank has at least AP3. not to mention that the magna melta is a 5" blast template. I personally feel that the high RoF weapon on the tank should therefore be given a higher AP. Not to mention the AMB has 48" range, so would be as good as if not better than the standard autocannon predator. 1 less S for equal range and AP and heavy 5? seems pretty powerful for a predator turret weapon to me. If the ABC was included, based on the weapons size and the ammo capacity needed, I think it would make far more sense to have it fitted on a vindicator style mount as someone mentioned earlier.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I don't see how the (forge world) Infernus' mega-melta is any different from the (forge world) avenger's bolt cannon.

Seems like an arbitrary line designed to prevent us having a heavy 7 AP3 gun to me.

Brings me back to what feels right. Big honk'n melta feels right for sisters, AP3 bolters do not. And you are correct, it is arbitrary. We all have to draw a line somewhere of what we think fits, and what doesn't. My line is different from yours, obviously. I'm good with that.

 SisterSydney wrote:

Blast artillery seems out of keeping with the army, though, Automaki: A shortage of blasts is one of the Sisters' defining weaknesses, like S3 T3, and I'm leery of over correcting at the cost of army character and game balance.

I don't think that it is a defining weakness, more like a glaring oversight. Just look at the Tau: they had one blast weapon before the new codex hit, now they have five bazillion. And the weapons fit into the general theme: we have an overpowered rapid firing weapon (boltguns/macro cannon), the fire based ignores cover infantry killer (flamers/eradicator nova cannon) and the short ranged kill-everything weapon (meltaguns/demolisher cannon).

And LOL, I mixed up the ABC and the AMB . So yeah, the ABC is the better weapon. But I think the Redemptor still has the option for a TL AMG... Strange.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

Blast artillery seems out of keeping with the army, though, Automaki: A shortage of blasts is one of the Sisters' defining weaknesses, like S3 T3, and I'm leery of over correcting at the cost of army character and game balance.

I don't think that it is a defining weakness, more like a glaring oversight. Just look at the Tau: they had one blast weapon before the new codex hit, now they have five bazillion. And the weapons fit into the general theme: we have an overpowered rapid firing weapon (boltguns/macro cannon), the fire based ignores cover infantry killer (flamers/eradicator nova cannon) and the short ranged kill-everything weapon (meltaguns/demolisher cannon).

And LOL, I mixed up the ABC and the AMB . So yeah, the ABC is the better weapon. But I think the Redemptor still has the option for a TL AMG... Strange.

I would say the magna melta is a much better 5" blast for sisters- its a giant melta gun, which fits in the holy trinity, and has a short range to balance that too. TBH, very similar to the demo cannon, but more SoB-like.
Although I'm also of the opinion that auto weapons are very similar to bolt weapons, and that macro cannons and autocannons are OK for SoB. The eradicator seems a little out of place though- maybe a standard battle cannon equipped solely with infernus shells? (FW armoured company list, I have the rules somewhere. basically the same as an Eradicator cannon in stats, but ordnance, and is definitely fire.)

Haighus wrote:
Although I'm also of the opinion that auto weapons are very similar to bolt weapons, and that macro cannons and autocannons are OK for SoB. The eradicator seems a little out of place though- maybe a standard battle cannon equipped solely with infernus shells? (FW armoured company list, I have the rules somewhere. basically the same as an Eradicator cannon in stats, but ordnance, and is definitely fire.)

Technically, the eradicator nova cannon fires a melta bomb that explodes into an inferno cannon. You can't have a better weapon for the Sisters than this !

Haighus wrote:
Although I'm also of the opinion that auto weapons are very similar to bolt weapons, and that macro cannons and autocannons are OK for SoB.

Auto weapons are basically souped-up machineguns. Boltguns fire miniature rockets with explosive warheads. Way more OTT.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Technically, the eradicator nova cannon fires a melta bomb that explodes into an inferno cannon. You can't have a better weapon for the Sisters than this !

That.... sounds appealing. Where are the rules for that one again? Codex:Imperial Guard 5th edition?

 SisterSydney wrote:

Auto weapons are basically souped-up machineguns. Boltguns fire miniature rockets with explosive warheads. Way more OTT.

Macro cannons also fire missile-bullets. The Apocalypse macro cannon fires its shell so hard, the shockwave can blow aircraft down from the skies !

 SisterSydney wrote:

That.... sounds appealing. Where are the rules for that one again? Codex:Imperial Guard 5th edition?

Yup.

 SisterSydney wrote:

Haighus wrote:
Although I'm also of the opinion that auto weapons are very similar to bolt weapons, and that macro cannons and autocannons are OK for SoB.

Auto weapons are basically souped-up machineguns. Boltguns fire miniature rockets with explosive warheads. Way more OTT.

Well, autocannons originally fired bolt-like rounds, but the technology to make the complex ammo was lost. Can't remember where i read that bit of fluff though, one of the 2 guard codices I have I think. Macro cannons are like big autocannons, and autoguns are just assault rifles, that is true.

Ah, "I had the technology somewhere around here, I just put it down, really, where did it go, dammit, honestly I'd lose me own 'ead if it weren't attached..." aspect of 40K.

Gk don't have tanks and if the mis estimation on sister's numbers is believed then the GK are a far more powerful force.
They both serve similar purposes.
So why would Sisters have tanks?

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Gk don't have tanks

But they do, meaning the conclusions you draw from this are wrong. Unless land raiders don't count as tanks for some reason?

Even if GK didn't, the Ecclesiarchy can afford to buy far more tanks than it has Sisters to crew them.

 motyak wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Gk don't have tanks

But they do, meaning the conclusions you draw from this are wrong. Unless land raiders don't count as tanks for some reason?

Have no idea how I forgot about "raiders.
Oh yeah! They're horrible points sinks. So I never see them, despite their model being pretty cool.
Back on topic, this is giving the sisters non Apoc IG levels of tanks. Which is silly. So the point still stands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Even if GK didn't, the Ecclesiarchy can afford to buy far more tanks than it has Sisters to crew them.

The point goes even more so for GK, which again if there are only like 200k sisters, are a far more powerful force.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Back on topic, this is giving the sisters non Apoc IG levels of tanks. Which is silly. So the point still stands...

Guard can squadron their tanks at 3 per slot, 9 per detachment. Sisters under these rules, like the Marines, get 1 per slot, 3 per detachment. Not the same.

I was tempted at one point to let an ungraded Canoness unlock squadrons for Sisters, but I was persuasively dissuaded and revised her accordingly.

And yes Land Raiders are nowhere as cool on the tabletop as in fluff, it's really very sad.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Back on topic, this is giving the sisters non Apoc IG levels of tanks. Which is silly. So the point still stands...

Guard can squadron their tanks at 3 per slot, 9 per detachment. Sisters under these rules, like the Marines, get 1 per slot, 3 per detachment. Not the same.

I was tempted at one point to let an ungraded Canoness unlock squadrons for Sisters, but I was persuasively dissuaded and revised her accordingly.

And yes Land Raiders are nowhere as cool on the tabletop as in fluff, it's really very sad.

Just read the rules. I expected there to be a whole lot more variety, where some fluff problems would emerge.
I see no problems. I'm heavily disappointed with myself, and other people for bitching about such a simple fluff friendly concept.
People actually see problems with this?
OT but when I first started the hobby 5 years back, I saw the rhinos were 30 dollars. Then I saw the 'Raiders which were around 3 times bigger, and much more ornate and cool looking, were 60 dollars. I want what GW is smoking.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Gk don't have tanks and if the mis estimation on sister's numbers is believed then the GK are a far more powerful force.
They both serve similar purposes.
So why would Sisters have tanks?

Because unlike the Grey Knights the Sisters can, and do wage war. Huge massive purification wars called "Wars of Faith".

Plus tanks make it easier to kill those traitous Marines and soften up their armor so we can purify them with fire and bolter.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Gk don't have tanks and if the mis estimation on sister's numbers is believed then the GK are a far more powerful force.
They both serve similar purposes.
So why would Sisters have tanks?

Because unlike the Grey Knights the Sisters can, and do wage war. Huge massive purification wars called "Wars of Faith".

Plus tanks make it easier to kill those traitous Marines and soften up their armor so we can purify them with fire and bolter.

From what I can understand these aren't very common, and by black library fluff marines are stupid tough. Like "take entire bolter clips to the face and suffer damage similar to an high power airsoft gun mag to the face" tough. That was a custodes. Or "this burly 6'6 Viking hero can't get through my skin with his massive 2 handed axe" tough. That happened to a near nude Space Wolf saving outlanders from the natives in Prospero Burns.Yeah.
So if the numbers of 200K are correct than due to the GK being hilariously more individually more powerful they are a dramatically more powerful force.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Gk don't have tanks and if the mis estimation on sister's numbers is believed then the GK are a far more powerful force.
They both serve similar purposes.
So why would Sisters have tanks?

Because unlike the Grey Knights the Sisters can, and do wage war. Huge massive purification wars called "Wars of Faith".

Plus tanks make it easier to kill those traitous Marines and soften up their armor so we can purify them with fire and bolter.

From what I can understand these aren't very common, and by black library fluff marines are stupid tough. Like "take entire bolter clips to the face and suffer damage similar to an high power airsoft gun mag to the face" tough. That was a custodes. Or "this burly 6'6 Viking hero can't get through my skin with his massive 2 handed axe" tough. That happened to a near nude Space Wolf saving outlanders from the natives in Prospero Burns.Yeah.
So if the numbers of 200K are correct than due to the GK being hilariously more individually more powerful they are a dramatically more powerful force.

We also have Sisters protecting Cadia for the 13th Black Crusade and fighting on Armageddon. Sisters get stuck in quite a bit on things, and even if not all of them are actively in combat they need things to handle the enemy. You don't assume you can run up to your enemy's tank and break it open with a meltagun every time. It's a waste of resources (and Sisters ).

Sisters are somewhere between 21k-30k according to studio fluff. My estimates put them as more realistically being the billions (when you have 16 QUADRILLION people in the Imperium that's not a big number. Seriously, it's .0005%. If you applied the same percentage to the US that'd be SIX Sisters to a state in total), some argue maybe millions but regardless you're saying "ah screw it, the richest and most zealous organization in the entire Imperium who start crusades, wars and are a large driving factor in keeping the Imperium hating the Xeno, Heretic and Mutant wouldn't make sure they could break a few tanks?

Yeah, BS.

Also Grey Knights are a VERY small Marine chapter. One that employs more exterminatus than careful, precise Daemon removal. So not really "more powerful" but "fights a different foe with different means".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I wasn't talking about the BL fluff, but the codex fluff. I don't really care what the BL has to say about 90% of the game. It's an entertaining read and that's about it.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Gk don't have tanks and if the mis estimation on sister's numbers is believed then the GK are a far more powerful force.
They both serve similar purposes.
So why would Sisters have tanks?

Because unlike the Grey Knights the Sisters can, and do wage war. Huge massive purification wars called "Wars of Faith".

Plus tanks make it easier to kill those traitous Marines and soften up their armor so we can purify them with fire and bolter.

From what I can understand these aren't very common, and by black library fluff marines are stupid tough. Like "take entire bolter clips to the face and suffer damage similar to an high power airsoft gun mag to the face" tough. That was a custodes. Or "this burly 6'6 Viking hero can't get through my skin with his massive 2 handed axe" tough. That happened to a near nude Space Wolf saving outlanders from the natives in Prospero Burns.Yeah.
So if the numbers of 200K are correct than due to the GK being hilariously more individually more powerful they are a dramatically more powerful force.

We also have Sisters protecting Cadia for the 13th Black Crusade and fighting on Armageddon. Sisters get stuck in quite a bit on things, and even if not all of them are actively in combat they need things to handle the enemy. You don't assume you can run up to your enemy's tank and break it open with a meltagun every time. It's a waste of resources (and Sisters ).

Sisters are somewhere between 21k-30k according to studio fluff. My estimates put them as more realistically being the billions (when you have 16 QUADRILLION people in the Imperium that's not a big number. Seriously, it's .0005%. If you applied the same percentage to the US that'd be SIX Sisters to a state in total), some argue maybe millions but regardless you're saying "ah screw it, the richest and most zealous organization in the entire Imperium who start crusades, wars and are a large driving factor in keeping the Imperium hating the Xeno, Heretic and Mutant wouldn't make sure they could break a few tanks?

Yeah, BS.

Also Grey Knights are a VERY small Marine chapter. One that employs more exterminatus than careful, precise Daemon removal. So not really "more powerful" but "fights a different foe with different means".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I wasn't talking about the BL fluff, but the codex fluff. I don't really care what the BL has to say about 90% of the game. It's an entertaining read and that's about it.

That's what I get for using 1d4chan. Crafty neckbeards.
They're a standard chapter with 1/2 the guys in terminator armor, and a 1/3 of those being super termies.
They have around 100 land raiders, around 100 storm ravens, around 2 dozen captains with CM statlines, they're all psykers. They have acess to the hilarious Warlord calibre Stormbird, and probably have dozens stowed away on Titan.
Black Library is just as canon as anything else.

Codex puts GK at normal codex strength, so I doubt your claims.

Additionally with how lethal the GK recruitment process is, I can't image them having so many bodies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And with your revised post, they still have a different mission than Sisters and a different way of wagin war, so I fail to see how we need to be taking what the GK do into account for anything.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:


That's what I get for using 1d4chan. Crafty neckbeards.
They're a standard chapter with 1/2 the guys in terminator armor, and a 1/3 of those being super termies.
They have around 100 land raiders, around 100 storm ravens, around 2 dozen captains with CM statlines, they're all psykers. They have acess to the hilarious Warlord calibre Stormbird, and probably have dozens stowed away on Titan.
Black Library is just as canon as anything else.

And with all that, they'd still get their arses kicked if the Adepta Sororitas decided they'd fallen to chaos.

SisterSidney asked me to post my original plans for a few items that were in my fandex. Keep in mind, these are from fifth edition and require a lot of context from this thread on IGMB (which I no longer have access to due to new forum code shenanigans) since the unit was created to be part of an entire complete codex (including referencing wargear that currently doesn't exist elsewhere) so...

Transport
Adepta Sororitas Dropship
When the Sororitas need to quickly deploy from the transports that deliver them to the planet, they use these specially designed dropships. Their majestic descent from space is only matched by their swift and nimble maneuvering when on the battlefield, darting to and fro with the expert efficiency that only a trully gifted pilot could manage.
-Propoganda film, "Angels from the Heavens"

85 Pts
BS 4
FA 12
SA 12
RA 10
Type: Vehicle, Skimmer
Composition: 1 Sororitas Dropship
Wargear: Twin-Linked Storm Bolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
Special Rules: Transport (11 models)
May replace Twin-Linked Storm Bolters with:
* Twin-linked Flamers: Free
* Twin-linked Meltaguns: +5 pts
* Heavy Bolter: +5 pts
* Heavy Flamer: +5 pts
* Multi-Melta: +10 pts
May purchase the following:
* Blessed Ammunition
* Holy Icon: +10 pts
* Holy Promethium: +10 pts
* Laud Hailers: +15 pts

Fast Attack
Conflagrator Light Tank
A modification to the Immolator chassis, thinly disguised as a new STC, the Conflagrator Light Tank has caused ripples in the already cold relations between the Ecclesiarchy and the Mechanicus, and the latter is still officially testing the new design even as the former deploys it in combat zones.

Cost: 110 pts (per tank)
BS 4
FA 12
SA 11
RA 10
Type: Tank
Composition: 1-3 Conflagrator Light Tanks
Wargear: Turret Boltcannon, Heavy Bolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
Special Rules: Fast
May exchange Turret Boltcannon for:
* Inferno Cannon for: +15 pts
* Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas: +10 Pts
May exchange Hull Heavy Bolter for:
* Hull Heavy Flamer: Free
* Hull Multi-Melta: +15 pts
May purchase sponsons:
* Heavy Bolters: +20 pts
* Heavy Flamers: +20 pts
* Multi-Meltas: +40 pts
May purchase Extra Armor for +15 pts
May purchase Laud Hailers for +10 pts

"Retribution" pattern Boltcannon
A multi-barreled variety of heavy bolter, the Boltcannon fires more devastating rounds at a higher rate of fire. The weapon is large enough that it requires two power armored Sororitas to man it, and indeed without power armor it would require a vehicle or turret mount.

R36", S7 AP4, Heavy 4, Unwieldly
Unwieldly: Takes up two heavy weapon slots, must be operated by two squad members (the second member may not fire that round). This rule has no effect on vehicles.

Thanks for posting those rules, Melissia. It looks like the big differences between our Fast Tanks are that mine has Scout (and therefore costs more) while yours can take sponsons and can squadron.

I'm not at all sure about sponsons on a light tank, and while I once argued for Sisters tank squadrons, I've been convinced that's a bad idea that doesn't translate well from Imperial Guard to Sisters. Conversely, as people have pointed out in this thread, my giving these things Scout may be over the top too....

Otherwise in terms of weapons and armor, they're nigh-identical - except for your neat super-heavy bolter idea.

As for your drop ship, I'll have to get to my copy of Imperial Guard 5th edition to compare with the Valkyrie before I can make intelligent detailed comments. It's clearly cheaper but also less well armed. Also I think the Valkyrie is Fast, which yours doesn't seem to have -- is that an oversight or intentional?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:


That's what I get for using 1d4chan. Crafty neckbeards.
They're a standard chapter with 1/2 the guys in terminator armor, and a 1/3 of those being super termies.
They have around 100 land raiders, around 100 storm ravens, around 2 dozen captains with CM statlines, they're all psykers. They have acess to the hilarious Warlord calibre Stormbird, and probably have dozens stowed away on Titan.
Black Library is just as canon as anything else.

And with all that, they'd still get their arses kicked if the Adepta Sororitas decided they'd fallen to chaos.

If we go by BL where the marines take bolter shells near nude with fleshwounds, or 6'6 Viking hero oversized axed swings with bruising, no chance in hell. At least with the 5th edition codex numbers.
Even then the Sisters have no counter to the likely dozen GK battlebarges, and dramatic amounts of warlord sized Stormbirds.

Actually, it turns out there is support in fluff for the Ecclesiarchy having warships, though probably nothing like a battle barge. In any case the Ecclesiarchy's solution to most major problems is to wrap a hard core of Sisters in a vast ablative mass of expendable Frateris Militia loonies. The GK would probably just run out of ammo....

But (a) I've never even read the Grey Knights codex and (b) we are drifting dangerously off topic. Let's agree it's a shame and frankly implausible that GK don't get proper turreted tanks, same as the Sisters to date, and go back to fixing the Sisters' list. If someone wants to make a GK Predator with Aegis, psychic powers, and autocannon rounds made entirely from the souls of orphan children, that would be an awesome topic for another thread.

[Edited repeatedly to fix typos and unclosed tags. I'm doing this on a tiny iPhone screen in the corner of an antique shop while my beloved wife browses....]

 SisterSydney wrote:
I'm not at all sure about sponsons on a light tank, and while I once argued for Sisters tank squadrons, I've been convinced that's a bad idea that doesn't translate well from Imperial Guard to Sisters.

Meh. They're just light tanks, it's not like they're having squadrons of leman russes if this is added in-- while the Sponsons objection might be applicable, I think it's fine in squadrons.. Mind you, I did suggest a leman russ which could be squadroned for my fandex, but the fandex also has additional fluff to justify it.

 SisterSydney wrote:
IAs for your drop ship, I'll have to get to my copy of Imperial Guard 5th edition to compare with the Valkyrie before I can make intelligent detailed comments. It's clearly cheaper but also less well armed. Also I think the Valkyrie is Fast, which yours doesn't seem to have -- is that an oversight or intentional?

It's intentional. The idea is that it is primarily designed to land and drop off troops whiel providing light fire support, not to be close air support (which would be stepping too much on the Navy's toes).

Ok, but apparently the Ecclesiarchy has some ships of its own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm going to take everyone's suggestions and rewrite the tanks shortly, but in the meantime, um, I made some Sororitas bikers and stuff, please check it out -- everyone here has been helpful and I'd love your help over there.

I've revised my tanks to incorporate many of the good comments in this thread & to bring them in line with the new digital Codex, where apparently Shield of Faith on a Rhino costs 5 points.

In brief:
- Oriflamme Scout Tank: basically an underarmoured Hellhound that has BS:4 and can Scout (and therefore costs more).
- Sororitas Predator: Basically a Predator Infernus that can upgrade to an Inferno Cannon (as on the IG Devil Dog) or, worse yet, a cut-down, shorter-ranged version of the Avenger Bolt Cannon (yes, the thing that Navy strike fighters carry).
- Exorcists get a host of alternative ammo options, including small blasts, Skyfire, extended range, and a short-range “melta missile” with Armourbane.
- Firing flamers at Cruising Speed is back! (“Drive-By Purification” SR).

Army Special Rule:
Drive-By Purification
Adepta Sororitas tank gunners are masters of high-speed flamer shots.
Any Adepta Sororitas Tank that is not a Fast vehicle may fure one Template weapon when moving at Cruising Speed
(Yes, this applies to the Immolator. Have fun!}


Vehicles

Oriflamme Scout Tank (Fast Attack): 150 points
Oriflamme BS:4 Armour:12/11/10 Hull Points:3


Sororitas Predator (Heavy Support): 100 points
Sororitas Predator: BS4 Armour: 13/11/11 Hull Points:3


Exorcist alternative ammunition
Any Exorcist may load its Exorcist Missile Launcher with one and only one of the following types of ammunition, changing the weapon’s profile:

Lots of cool stuff

Not totally clear how the Exorcist ammo works - do you just select one and that replaces the normal missiles or is the single choice in addiiton to this?

I Wonder if we could get an Assault vehicle:
Liberationem Class Assault Transport

[quote=Mr Morden 556841 6166857 33b4df0e481c469309456f6975ea609c.jpeg

Old thread, mate. My homebrew Sororitas assualt vehicle -- also called "Deliverer" but more like a scaled-down Land Raider than a beefed-up Rhino -- is here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/573996.page

Come on over and comment!

[Edited because apparently I've spent so much time writing about military stuff on my iPhone that it autocorrected my original typo for "over" to "ISR."]