I like the idea of having mercinary options in an army. Now i dont want it to be like the allies system. In my opinion it should be i can take mercinaries just like they are from the same codex as my chosen race except there will be obvious limits. I was wondering if people had cool ideas for mercs?

And maybe some fluff too that would be interesting. One of my gaurd armies will be merc heavy so ill use a lot of these ideas.

Now this is a draft. When we are done here we will make a neat published version on a new thread.

The obvious ones are kroot, vespid, loxatl, beast people and so on. Anyone got cool ideas? I'll take the good ones and add it to this post but ill start with the possible loxatl rules here:



Loxatl Mercenaries

WS: 3
BS: 3
S: 4
T: 4
W: 1
I: 2
A: 1
LD: 10

Equipment:

Flachette Shotgun: R18" - Assault 2 - S4 - AP Nill
May take solid rounds giving it the following shooting option: May Opt to shoot as a Hot Shot Lasgun with Assault 1 instead of rapid fire

Natural camo: Count as equiped with camo cloaks

One model may take a melta bomb.

Points 9

Up to 5 in a unit, minimum 3.

Universal Loxatl Rules:

Cold Blooded: Re roll failed Moral tests

Predator: Gains the behind enemy lines rule detailed in the storm trooper entry

Adhesive Skin: Move Through Cover and Ignores Dangerous terrain tests. (maybe pass over impassible terrain?)

Rancid Stench: Counts as having defensive grenades

Slow Minded (maybe Re name): +1 to deny the witch roles.

Natural Armour: 6+ Armour save which cannot be modified.

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Rak'Gol Mercenaries - 9 points each
Unit Composition: 1 - 5 Rak'Gol Mercenaries

Ws 5
Bs 2
S 5
T 4
W 1
I 4
A 2
Ld 8
Sv 6+

Equipment:

Razor Gun
Range - 18"
S - 3
Ap - 5
Type - Assault 2

Special Rules:

Bloodthirsty Horror: When this unit destroys another unit, the unit gains a frenzy point. Units that reach a milestone of frenzy points receive the following benefits:
1 point - +1 T
2 points - Rage
3 points - +1 S
4 points - Feel No Pain

Options:

One Mercenary may swap it's Razor Gun for a:

Rad Axe
Strength - User
Ap - 3
Type - Unwieldy, Melee

Howler Rifle - + 15 points
Range - 24"
S - 4
Ap - 4
Type - Heavy 3

Rad Beam Cannon - + 25 points
Range - 24"
S - 5
Ap - 4
Type - Gets Hot!, Poisoned (3+), Blast, Assault 1

Rules:

Multi-Limbed
A Rak'Gol with 2 pairs of close combat weapons may choose to use either 1 pair (focused) or both pairs (unfocused). Using one pair allows for a normal attack. Using both pairs grants + 1 attack and rage but with - 1 to WS and Initiative and rolls to hit of 1 result in the mercenary wounding himself.


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Rogue Psyker Mob

Psychic talent is not a rare thing, though the training to use it is. Despite the dangers of doing so, many dubious organizations and individuals are willing to take the risk of using unsanctioned and untrained psykers on the battlefield - and enough talented but untrained individuals rot in the gutters of the Imperium and beyond to fill this demand. Typically little more than raw recruits with little or no battlefield training, these unprepared and unguarded individuals shine like a mighty beacon in the warp, earning them the unfortunate habit of attracting a number of hungry and hostile daemons...

Rogue Psyker
WS: 2 BS: 2, S: 3, T: 3, W: 1, I: 3, A: 1, Ld: 7, Sv: 6+

Cost: 10 points per model
Unit Size: 5-10
Wargear: Laspistol, Sub-flak armour

Special Rules: Brotherhood of Psykers, Psyker (see list) Open Minds

Open Minds

Psykers may only cast 1 power a turn as they know they must use their powers in moderation.

Due to the lack of control these Rogue Psykers have over their powers, they are less than reliable at keeping them under control than your usual battlefield psyker. Because of this, no independent character would be insane enough to join this unit! In addition, the unit suffers Perils of the Warp on any roll of a double when taking a psychic test. When the unit suffers Perils, rather than taking a wound, roll on the following chart to determine the resullt;

1-2: *Pop*

The head of 1d3 psykers burst apart suddenly. Remove that many model from the unit as a casualty, with no saves of any kind whatsoever allowed.

3-4: Kaboom!

Randomly select one Psyker in the unit - they immediately blow apart in a firestorm of psychic violence. Place the large blast template directly over the model and inflict a S4 AP - hit on every model under the template. The exploding model is then removed as a casualty. the unit then takes a blindness test and any unit within D6 inches must also take a blindness test.

5-6: Daemonic Possession!

All models in the unit are possessed by daemons, and rampage wildly around the battlefield. The models gain the Beast unit type and Daemon special rule, including a 5+ invulnerable save. In addition, roll d6 times on the Daemonic Boon table (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines) re-rolling duplicate results as well as spawnhood or Daemon Prince, and apply these results to the unit. They then rampage across the battlefield, becoming a neutral unit that moves towards the nearest unit (friend or foe) each turn and charges if possible. If no charge is possible they must run. The unit moves at the start of your movement phase, and assaults at the start of your assault phase. It is considered to be a denial unit for the purposes of holding objectives, but denies both you and your opponent.

Brother hood of psykers

All psykers count as one unit for the purpose of casting psykic powers.

Rogue Psyker Abilities:

Psychic Bolt.
For every model in the unit it has 2" range, so a full squad of 10 is a 20"range. Further more for every two models determines the number of shots, str and AP, so a full 10 man squad it would be assault 5, str 5 AP 2.

Warp Laser(lame name I know)
it gets 3"for every model so at 10 models its 30 inches and it gets 1 str for each model so it would be str 10 at 10 models. The AP is D6 minus 1 (a roll of 1 is a 0), it also has gets hot rule, if it gets hot 1 random model has to make a save or take a wound.

United Sheild
United Sheild targets a friendly unit within 18", the unit becomes fearless, +1 wound, +1 toughness and their armor save increases by +1, if there is 10 models the effects are doubled and the unit causes fear. However if the unit fails to cast the power the target unit suffers the open mind chart and a character must perish immediately. If no characters then roll to randomly determine a model.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Beast Men

WS: 4 BS: 3, S: 3, T: 3, W: 1, I: 3, A: 1, Ld: 7, Sv: 6+

9 points a model, 3-6 models.

Gear
Defensive Grenades
Frag Grenades
Krak Grenades
Smoke Grenades
CC weapon
Auto Pistol

May take one demo Charge for every three models in the unit. 15pts
May take 1 spike grenade for every 2 models. 9 points

Special Rules

Grenade flurry
instead of making a normal shooting attack, the whole unit opts to throw grenades, this is done with risk though since the enemy is almost upon them and they are trying to pull the pin or set/activate the explosive device, their BS is reduced by -1 and on rolls of 1 (using the gets hot method for blasts) a randomly determined model dies with no save of any kind as the device explodes in their hand or face. They must use the same grenade with the following exceptions:
Demo charges/spike grenades can be thrown instead of the rest of the squads chosen grenade. 1 Smoke grenade may be thrown but the squad may not assault and any grenades used suffer 2 wounds for each suffered by the grenade flurry rule.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Rogue Mutants

to come

Not Vespid, they're all with the Tau because of their "translator" helms.

You could look at Hrrud and Clawed Fiends. Dark Eldar, Ork and Necron mercenaries would probably be best represented as an allied detachment.

By 6+ armour which cannot be modified, do you mean 6++ (cannot be modified by AP 6 attacks) or just 6+ which can't be improved or reduced (Entropic Strike)?


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You could also have human mercs, using rules from the GK Warrior Acolytes, and possibly renegade Fire Warriors (with dilapidated equipment)?

Ork Freeboteerz
Human Pirates and Mercs
Squat Bortherhood
Eldar Corsairs

Maybe an Inquisitor and/or Rogue Trader HQ option - they often use them. Have a Generic Leader for each race:

Eldar Prince
Ork Kaptin
Human Pirate Lord
Human Mercenary Captain
Squat Sargeant

Then a few named characters

Maybe make it that the basic units of the same race are troops and otherwise Elite:

So an Eldar Corsair Prince can have Eldar Corsairs as troops, Dark Eldar, Human or Squats as Elites.

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
By 6+ armour which cannot be modified, do you mean 6++ (cannot be modified by AP 6 attacks) or just 6+ which can't be improved or reduced (Entropic Strike)?


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You could also have human mercs, using rules from the GK Warrior Acolytes, and possibly renegade Fire Warriors (with dilapidated equipment)?

1 = well i had the necron ability in mind when writing this so i thought if they remove their flesh (aka armour) then the loaxatl would die so not modified means no matter what it is always a 6+ unless hit by AP6 or better. Simply means cannot be modified at all. i.e cannot be improved or reduced.

2 = humans are the obvious ones and GK idea spounds cool. even the old last chancers sound like a cool unit to have as mercs.

in short im just after possible cool merc rules people have thought up so i can get converting.

In the case of Entropic Strike, it only strips armour saves on an unsaved wound, so on a 1 wound model an ability that protects against it is pretty much useless.

The last Imperial Armour book had lost of rules for Eldar Corsairs.

true but its for anything including better armour modifyers. not a big deal but meh

They didn't seem all that interesting though sadly.

Thats why i put this up, so people can add their wants in a merc and stuff etc. i mean to me this unit would be usefull. maybe i should give them scouts i dont know.

How about the Rak'gol? Could those be used?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rak'Gol

Anything can be used i reckon. What are these Rak'gol?

I probably should have put the link up first. Here.

I think in a nutshell, they're worm-ish xenos creatures with incredibly primitive technology.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rak'Gol

Heck those are cool, im at work so cant read it all but at a glance they look like savage hard shelled aliens with natural (i.e arms a weapons) weapons? could be cool. If you have a better summary then it would be much appreciated. ill add what i think it might be rules wise and go from there.

I'll give it a go.
- They are reptilian creatures, larger than humans with 8 limbs
- Their technology is quite crude (most of their weapons are close combat oriented) but they still have guns
- They have an odd type of psyker (forget what it's called though). Techno something
- They are incredibly savage and are very likely to go berserk
- The few that dare investigate the Rak'Gol usually don't come back
- They can somehow survive in the Immaterium (or pass through it. I forget which)
- To the Imperium, they are terrifying
- You're right with the natural weapons but it's more Geiger-esqe with what looks like the metal fused with the flesh.

Can someone please tell me why these xenos don't have a codex yet?

Hope that helps. There's a lot more on the link but this should be a start.

Awesome well if you make some decent rules ill add it to the OP because that sounds cool. Maybe a simple version of paon tokens or something i dont know, for the rage thing.

I'll see what I can do. It may come off a little overpowered but I'll try to get it done.

Awesome, and anythings a start should be cool. probably best to start big then work it down after some thought.

I see where you are going with this. I think you should go off on the other thread you posted in and keep these loxatl guys as their own codex and they have a special rule to count as mercs for any race/codex and in doing so does not count as allies but operate under a merc system, which is in the middle of battle brothers and allies of convenience, so basically they are not treated as non targetable enemies but cannot also benefit from battle brothers rules. And their is no force org chart minimum, but you cannot take an merc HQ in this way. They use up the force org of your primary detachment, but you can take just an elites from them or just a heavy if you want or even multiples, but the max you can take of mercenaries is it cannot be greater then your primary detachments number of unit choices. Also I would say they have two points costs, a base one for their own army and codex then a second one that's slightly more expensive to take as Mercs

Also you can run mercs as a full army but they cannot/will not take allies. And obviously tyranids can't have access.

Also reason why they can't take allies is because mercs work on their own when not hired, they don't want to share in spoils with anyone and they don't care about the bigger picture with wars.

I want to keep the loxatl dudes here because they are reknowned mercs. But your bang on with how i want them to work army wise. But the loxatl guys are what got me thinking so i added them to this first off.

I think what we need first is a basic list of mercs that already exist then from there we can expand on it. ill do more tonight.

Well that was fun. Anyway, here goes nothing...

Rak'Gol Mercenaries - 9 points each
Unit Composition: 1 - 5 Rak'Gol Mercenaries

Ws 5
Bs 2
S 4
T 4
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 8
Sv 6+

Equipment:

Razor Gun
Range - 18"
S - 3
Ap - 5
Type - Assault 2

Special Rules:

Bloodthirsty Horror: When this unit destroys another unit, the unit gains a frenzy point. Units that reach a milestone of frenzy points receive the following benefits:
1 point - +1 T
2 points - Rage
3 points - +1 S
4 points - Feel No Pain

Options:

One Mercenary may swap it's Razor Gun for a:

Howler Rifle - + 15 points
Range - 24"
S - 4
Ap - 4
Type - Heavy 3

Rad Beam Cannon - + 25 points
Range - 24"
S - 5
Ap - 4
Type - Gets Hot!, Poisoned (3+), Blast, Assault 1

I think it's a little overpowered but it's a start at least. Would you like me to add more units or characters or will just this unit do?

i RECKON WE KEEP IT TO ONE ICONIC UNIT PER RACE. BUT FEEL FREE TO MAKE CHARACTERS TOO.

I think its awesome if you point cost them properly, but the rad beam cannon, I think should be assault 1 or rapid fire 18" because a small blast for that can suck since if people do 2"coherency a small blast gets 1 guy. Its ok if its a blast just not heavy at that range and also if its poison +3, you don't need a str, poison can't effect vehicles. The base gun is cool so is the first upgrade one

Edit: holy crap I re read it and saw you points them at 50 each lol, with a t 4 and 6+ armor? More around 8 or 9 points each.

Dat Guy wrote:I think its awesome if you point cost them properly, but the rad beam cannon, I think should be assault 1 or rapid fire 18" because a small blast for that can suck since if people do 2"coherency a small blast gets 1 guy. Its ok if its a blast just not heavy at that range and also if its poison +3, you don't need a str, poison can't effect vehicles. The base gun is cool so is the first upgrade one

Edit: holy crap I re read it and saw you points them at 50 each lol, with a t 4 and 6+ armor? More around 8 or 9 points each.

And to think I thought they were not expensive enough. Actually, they were originally going to be S 5, A 2, and W 2 so I must have forgotten to change it. I'll edit it.

As for the rad beam cannon, according to the fluff, it seems kind of like a very crude multi melta or plasma cannon. It fires ionized radiation (which is why it's poisoned) don't know what radiation does to vehicles though but if it is dangerous to vehicles, then maybe a property like the gauss could be better.

Swastakowey wrote:i RECKON WE KEEP IT TO ONE ICONIC UNIT PER RACE. BUT FEEL FREE TO MAKE CHARACTERS TOO.

Sorry if this somehow comes off as rude but did I accidentally do something wrong or were you stuck on caps lock while typing this? I apologize if it's not the latter.

sorry i use doss extensively at work so sometimes i forget to turn the caps lock off. very sorry. in no way was meant to sound rude.


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DOS the old programme

Ah okay. Thanks! Oh, and one more thing about the Rak'gol I should mention. They don't really communicate very well with other races so having them as mercenaries is sort of bending the fluff a bit but they're not like Tyranids with the whole hive mind thing and have some form of sentience, if primal. Don't know if that works for you but hopefully it does.

Don't try to cover it up now lol.

Ok I guess I can see where you are coming from, maybe then against vehicles it can work like entropic strike on a 6 only though obviously after you hit. But the strength would still have no bearing against vehicles.

Sorry. I thought people edit on the same post they first put the stats on.

As for the cannon, sorry but I'm a little confused. Do you mean increase the strength of the cannon so it can affect vehicles or make a new property so it works like entropic strike on a 6 after hitting?

Well I mean the poison rule, poison wounds any non vehicle model on the set die roll regardless of toughness.

In the poisoned rule on page 40 in the rule book it says poison weapons are treated as Str 1 unless otherwise noted (which you did but the str would only effect instant death if its at least double the targets toughness). It goes further on to say this poisoned rule does not effect vehicles.

So even a str 10 poisoned gun could do nothing to a AV 10 vehicle.

In regards to your mercenary it seems geard for combat stat wise but doesn't have the equipment to do anything but shooting. I could be wrong but perhaps making it combat orientated gear wise too?

By combat do you mean close combat? If that's the case, they do have a couple of melee weapons that could work. As for non combat stuff, I can try to look into it.

As for the cannon, would it be a better idea just to remove the poison property entirely and just give it a high strength?

Yea i suggest melee should be their purpose. I will come back and make some proposed changes i reckon given the fact they have multiple limbs they need more attacks possibly random not sure yet.

I mean for the cannon from what you told me it could be poisoned damage, but if it wasn't I wouldn't put it higher then str 6, but the 3+ poison would be better then a str.

I mean you could make it 3+ poison with str 6 for the purposes of instant killing a toughness 3 model with two or more wounds left.

Okay then how about this:

Strength is 5 instead of 4
Initiative is 4 instead of 3
Attacks are 4 instead of 1 (considering they have eight limbs)

Melee weapon:

Rad Axe
Strength - User
Ap - 3
Type - Unwieldy, Melee

For the cannon:

Still costs 25 points
Range is same (after it was edited)
Strength is 6
Ap is the same
Still poisoned (3+)
Still blast
Still gets hot

Dat guy, I'm very sorry if I'm still not getting it right.

SkavenLord wrote:
Okay then how about this:

Strength is 5 instead of 4
Initiative is 4 instead of 3
Attacks are 4 instead of 1 (considering they have eight limbs)

Melee weapon:

Rad Axe
Strength - User
Ap - 3
Type - Unwieldy, Melee

For the cannon:

Still costs 25 points
Range is same (after it was edited)
Strength is 6
Ap is the same
Still poisoned (3+)
Still blast
Still gets hot

Dat guy, I'm very sorry if I'm still not getting it right.

This post made me sad, why are you apologizing to me? This is made up stuff that is your idea. You are doing good people are just trying to help and give you ideas. I like the update, but I would keep them at str 4 and the weapons AP 5 and rending. The attacks make sense, the initiative might not make sense but they need it since if they are in close combat with marines they won't come out alive especially because of 5 being max squad size. And I like the gun!

looks good, although id change the gun to a power axe as it is exactly the same but ap 2 i beleive. give it 2 melee options as I4 means nothing if they strike last. I reckon if you change the rad axe to power axe and then give them an upgrade where they use their base S of 5 and AP- but D6 + 2 attacks (at most 8 standard attacks = 8 limbs). but thats my opinion.

Plenty of the models in the game have two limbs and only one attack =/

Eight attacks is insane, at most the d6 method of getting them is reasonable.

Yes but it could just be three attacks. which is good still but yea maybe it is too much? maybe just a standard D6 standard attacks before modifiers.

Then again, putting it at D3 may also make it even more reasonable.

Well I know stuff doesn't get that many attacks because of limbs. I know the 4th edition tyranids codex that you can upgrade a gene stealer with a pair of arms that gave 1 extra attack. I mean these things have 8 limbs on top of two legs? Or 8 limbs and they walk on 2 or 4 of them?

Regardless I think a d3 attacks per model works the best for this situation.also if they have that many arms you could give them a special rule that if they have two different types of melee weapons they can use the effects of both. But a draw back is they can never gain +1 attacks for two close combat weapons and it will cost a lot of points for that model.

Agreed, D3 is much better.

I've only seen two hand weapons they have:

Rad Axe - It could be kind of like a power axe.

Intimidator - A sword that could be kind of like a power sword.

Dat Guy wrote:

Regardless I think a d3 attacks per model works the best for this situation.also if they have that many arms you could give them a special rule that if they have two different types of melee weapons they can use the effects of both. But a draw back is they can never gain +1 attacks for two close combat weapons and it will cost a lot of points for that model.

For some reason I keep forgetting these are not tyranids and extra close combat weapons are not automatically in their attack stat.

So maybe something like this?

Multi - Limbed
Rak'Gol mercenaries do not gain an extra attack by equipping a second close combat weapon but may use the effects of both weapons in assault.

Yeah that's pretty good, I am sure there will be a lot of complaints though. I was thinking about it and it can be difficult and overly powered if you can use a power fist and power sword at the same time, then how is it determined if you use what AP value, or str, and even initiative step. Yeah if you chose the best out of those two it would basically be a power fist at initiative.

Maybe that rule could be given to the Sgt type upgrades and the HQ choices to represent their skill and experience. For the basic guys multi limb could effect the amount of weapons they hold and they could be given a special rule that let's them use salvo or rapid fire and still assault while still being able to hold two basic close combat weapons and get +1 for charge and +1 for two close combat weapons.

Further more you can even make up for them being multi limbed, they can be given 4 basic close combat weapons and +1 attack per two weapons. Further again it could decrease their ws because they try to focus on all 4 weapons.

Or perhaps give them 2 attacks base, 2 Pairs of close combat weapons and rage (apparently they get angry really fast). this combination could be "unfocused" where on any role of one to hit is a wound against themselves.

They could go into focused where they 2 attacks base, 1 pair of combat weapons and no rage but dont suffer from the rule above?

Maybe someone else can expand on it or is it too complicated?

Um I'm not sure if it's complicated lol because I come up with stuff like that too, I definitely think they don't get a set number for base attacks and just roll a d3 and for each set of 2 close combat weapons they get +1 attack but they also suffer from -1 ws and initiative if they attack with the extra weapons, see that's complicated to am extent also, for me it's not because I know what I am talking about same with you know what you're talking about also.

There is no easy way to make them distinct from other races without something being complicated.

I know what you mean. Otherwise what is the point of this if we are just gonna rename a terminator or a fire warrior etc. Gotta be different but achieve balance. Otherwise its just boring

So... something like this?

Multi-Limbed
A Rak'Gol with 2 pairs of close combat weapons may choose to use either 1 pair (focused) or both pairs (unfocused). Using one pair allows for a normal attack. Using both pairs grants + 1 attack and rage but with - 1 to WS and Initiative and rolls to hit of 1 result in the mercenary wounding himself.

Very good skaven lord that sounds awesome but one minor wording detail, rolls of 1 hit yourself but still roll to wound yourself not just an auto wound, I wouldn't put rage in their and if that's the case you can take hitting yourself out of there too.

Awesome so if no one disagrees i can add them to the OP. Any one like the idea of a psyker unit?

Um for primitive races? The closest thing would be a type of voodoo or witch doctor with 1 warp charge at the most and only access to biomancy and pyromancy.

Dat Guy wrote:Very good skaven lord that sounds awesome but one minor wording detail, rolls of 1 hit yourself but still roll to wound yourself not just an auto wound, I wouldn't put rage in their and if that's the case you can take hitting yourself out of there too.

Yeah, that probably makes more sense.

Swastakowey wrote:Awesome so if no one disagrees i can add them to the OP. Any one like the idea of a psyker unit?

A psyker unit? What do you have in mind?

I was thinking, the psyker battle squad works like a single psyker. Maybe we could do a play on that and make like a communal psyker squad where they can pool their warp charges for an array of primitive sounding abilities. But the more warp charge they pool the bigger the consequences...

Are they human or xenos?

Not sure, are there any potent psyker xenos or mutants out there in 40k?

Hmm... Unsanctioned Imperium Psykers? (Witches)

Yea that would add to the unit being potentially very dangerous to itself and those around them etc. How far should we go power wise? custom or rule book


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I reckon we make its own chart (that we we can control how much the warp charges cost) so that it works with their increased potential depending on how many members they have, but the more they have the more chance there is of something bad happening to them for which we can make a quick D6 chart for.

Oh this should be interesting and hard to make your own psychic table, if it proves to hard pyromancy and biomancy would work.

I would take it there primitive powers would be primarily witch fires and a few debuffs with 1 buff power. You can always do a 3 power chart with a 4th as a primaris like chaos does. To do 6 chart with 7 can be difficult. With a total of 4, 1 witch fire, 1 focused witch fire, 1 debuff and maybe one buff but I would personally say another witch fire or malediction

i reckon a 4 would be great as its not big but not small. maybe make the powers so that if you want to commit the squad to the power you can merge certain powers for better effects, then just make the consequences of failure worse.

Maybe. But its better to start with the powers itself first.

Aren't psychic tests basically leadership tests where failure results in the psyker getting a wound? What if for every psyker in the unit, add one to the rolls for the psychic tests.

yes but i like risks so i was thinking if they fail then something bad will happen but yea it would get complicated i guess. I'll look into it after work and make a simple one to begin with then we can expand on it if need be.

I think the grey knight codex works like that for their inquisitorial squads that are psykers as well as the imperial guard sanctioned psykers.

And what do you mean are their any potent Xenos psykers? Eldar and Tyranids are both Xenos and have a very powerful warp and psychic presence. Nurgle is the dark god of mutations and their are nurgle psychic powers. Just teasing you since you asked that question.

I would say this as an example, the Psyker unit will have raw talent, they are mercenaries of course they don't have the formal training of the warp to control it skillfully or to be consumed by its dark depths and demons. Because of this they are extremely dangerous and very unstable.

Here are some example special rules to represent this:

A single psyker by himself cannot manifest any powers, he needs to have at least one other psyker within 6" him to be able to attempt a power. This includes from other squads. The squad size is 10 psykers. With a full 10 squad they take their psychic tests on ld 10 with each two less guys the ld for psychic tests goes down so 8 guys its 9, 6 guys its 8, 4 guys its 7. As well as they can not manifest warp charge two powers if less then 4 models.and also any doubles of the psychic test cause perils to a single model if under 4 models. When the unit suffers a perils of the warp center the small blast template over a randomly determined model that model dies and all other models under it that are psykers suffers a hit that wounds on 4+ regardless of toughness, invulnerable saves are allowed if wounded.

An example witch fire power is Psychic Bolt. For every model in the unit it has 2" range, so a full squad of 10 is a 20"range. Further more for every two models determines the number of shots, str and AP, so a full 10 man squad it would be assault 5, str 5 AP 2.

Wow thats perfect really.

If they fail instead of doing a wound a random model in the unit explodes doing a large blast. The large blast causes a blinding test and pinning test, and counts as S4 AP -

Doh haha I was editing my message to talk about that while you were posting and thank you!

And damn lol why are you so harsh on your unit, maybe the large blast and maybe the blinding but definitely not pinning hehe, it will happen more often then you think and none would run that unit. Also their base leadership would be 8

alright no pinning. Sounds very fair lol. Ill add the other unit to the OP now while i remember. Now although i play eldar im not well versed on psycic powers so if you feel up to it you all good to make a quick psykic list?

Uh, I don't know about quick, I do all my posting since day one from a smart phone, so its not as fast as a Keyboard but at least I have the Swype feature which is amazing and if I get 75 wpm average on key board I probably get 40 wpm on this but it still sometimes acts up from screen rotation and if I put it down the screen goes black. So I also have to think carefully about the powers.

In the end I don't know about quick but I can try doing individual ones at a time. Also it takes moments longer when refreshing and going to other screens. I am also multi tasking so this isn't the only thing I am doing.

Dont sweat it dude, ill think about and try do it too.

Ok so one psychic power down 3 to go, how about a beam power?

Warp Laser(lame name I know) it gets 3"for every model so at 10 models its 30 inches and it gets 1 str for each model so it would be str 10 at 10 models. The AP is - nothing, it also has gets hot rule, if it gets hot 1 random model has to make a save or take a wound.

Ok let's try a blessing:

Summoning Purpose targets the psyker unit and they become fearless, +1 wound, +1 toughness and their armor save increases by +1. Any perils of the warp on this power is doubled. If perils on double one the power goes off in time for the models to gain +1 wound before taking the perils wound.

Hmm let me know how these are before I move on.

Yeah thats decent. Could make it like the guard one and roll a D6 for penetration. The guard one has a large blast but doesnt have gets hot or the chance to blind every one...

Would rogue psykers be able to summon demons or other worldly beings temporarily? That would be cool in my opinion.

Well yes they can but I doubt it would be temporarily and that's how worlds die cause if they cause a demon to enter from the warp either two things happen, 1 the demon possesses the psyker indefinitely or two the demon slaughters and/or eats the psyker.

I was actually thinking of a power like that but then you would lose control of that unit and it would attack closest target even if its your own, but you would roll a d4 and assign a type of demon, i.e. khorne blood letters, slaanesh demonettes, the nurgle things, or the tzeentch things.

But then I thought mercenaries wouldn't want to do that, they want to live and be greedy for money lol, but also that could be a drawback to this unit since they are not professionally trained they can lose control and become possessed.

you just covered all my thoughts right there. but if they are greedy etc then if they can tame the demon and potentially keep themselves alive for a lot longer. maybe but if your all good with it i would love to use such an unstable unit.

Do you want it as an actual psychic power? Or have it as a perils mishap? If its a perils mishap we can say any doubles on a psychic test roll 1d6 4 or higher the unit becomes possessed by demons.

I reckon we make it a psykic power but if you cast it one psyker cannot cast/aid the psykers in casting powers. He must pas a leadership test every turn to control the demon, if he fails the demon goes crazy and not only is the psyker possessed the demon runs rampant attacking the closest models. If the psyker dies then the demon is free and runs rampant?

Too OP or pretty reasonable?

Not that it is OP, I just can't see an untrained rogue psyker able to do that, I mean when any psyker suffers a perils of the warp that represents various things, the psykers mind dies, the psyker gets sucked and disappears into the warp or a demon grabs him and brings him to his home.

The best that can be done is if they summon them it would be with deepstrike rules and you randomly select a psyker from that unit to determine the scatter, if it scatters off and you roll 2d6 for number of demons that show and none of them are within 1" of any unit they can appear but still attackthe closest unit which may be your own, if it doesn't scatter or it scatters onto your own unit of psykers they all turn into the demons.

This stuff sounds cool as hell lol

I know what you mean, a bit far fetched. Yours works too and is just as dangerous haha.

I was thinking after I wrote that, I guess yours could actually work with controlling the demon thing, I am thinking of a basic troop demon and not the big scary ones if you were, it would only be one like you mentioned and one psyker has to make his ld check to hold it, which is ld 8 but its one little demon that can die easily but could also be ignored if someone didn't want to waste 20 shots into one guy, not sure if its worth it though to bring one demon. Also if these guys are playing with demons usually they turn to chaos, I am just not sure, I will work on the last power and we can go from their, I think it would be cooler too have them turning into demons on a doubles psychic test because it kinda adds a cheap way to get an assault unit in if they turn into demons and its free because it's a special rule that happens to them but it's also at random since you need doubles on psychic test then roll a 4 or higher to be possessed.

I was thinking of a mediocre demon not a huge one if that helps. But with Ld 8 im sure they wont hold it for long... but the unit of demons appearing is also cool sounding but there is no control which is my concern.

Ehhh, seems overly complex. I've run a ton of custom stuff in my games and I swear by keeping it simple.

To the Skaven guy, psykers only take a wound if they roll 1-1 or 6-6, not if they fail the test.

Going off what I've seen here, which are some pretty mint ideas, here's my proposal. Still more complex than it should be but all in the name of making it interesting =/

Rogue Psyker Mob

Psychic talent is not a rare thing, though the training to use it is. Despite the dangers of doing so, many dubious organizations and individuals are willing to take the risk of using unsanctioned and untrained psykers on the battlefield - and enough talented but untrained individuals rot in the gutters of the Imperium and beyond to fill this demand. Typically little more than raw recruits with little or no battlefield training, these unprepared and unguarded individuals shine like a mighty beacon in the warp, earning them the unfortunate habit of attracting a number of hungry and hostile daemons...

Rogue Psyker
WS: 2 BS: 2, S: 3, T: 3, W: 1, I: 3, A: 1, Ld: 5, Sv: 6+

Cost: 10 points per model? Dunno
Unit Size: 5-10
Wargear: Laspistol, Sub-flak armour
Special Rules: Brotherhood of Psykers, Psyker [Pyromancy, Custom list, etc], Open Minds, In it for the Money

Open Minds

Due to the lack of control these Rogue Psykers have over their powers, they are less than reliable at keeping them under control than your usual battlefield psyker. Because of this, no independent character would be insane enough to join this unit! In addition, the unit suffers Perils of the Warp on any roll of a double when taking a psychic test. When the unit suffers Perils, rather than taking a wound, roll on the following chart to determine the resullt;

1-2: *Pop*

The head of 1d3 psykers burst apart suddenly. Remove that many model from the unit as a casualty, with no saves of any kind whatsoever allowed.

3-4: Kaboom!

Randomly select one Psyker in the unit - they immediately blow apart in a firestorm of psychic violence. Place the large blast template directly over the model and inflict a S8 AP - hit on every model under the template. The exploding model is then removed as a casualty

5-6: Daemonic Possession!

All models in the unit are possessed by daemons, and rampage wildly around the battlefield. The models gain the Beast unit type and Daemon special rule, including a 5+ invulnerable save. In addition, roll d6 times on the Daemonic Boon table (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines) re-rolling duplicate results as well as spawnhood or Daemon Prince, and apply these results to the unit. They then rampage across the battlefield, becoming a neutral unit that moves towards the nearest unit (friend or foe) each turn and charges if possible. If no charge is possible they must run. The unit moves at the start of your movement phase, and assaults at the start of your assault phase. It is considered to be a denial unit for the purposes of holding objectives, but denies both you and your opponent.

In it for the money

At the start of the game, after deployment, or if kept in reserves, immediately upon arriving on the battlefield, roll a d6 for this unit. On a roll of '1' they betray you, selling their services to a higher bidder! (ie, your opponent), and immediately join their side.

Units with the "In it for the money" special rule are denial but never scoring units, nor do they count for the purposes of kill points.

To make it optionally more complex, they could gain a boon at the start of each turn, and/or the could be infested by a 'type' of daemon as Dat Guy suggested - Khornate, Nurglite, Tzeenchian or Slaneeshii - which modifies their stats. This could also occur on psychic power rolls of 6,7,9 etc ie holy number of each god. The unit could also have handlers - each handler downgrades one perils to a Pop result then disappears.

I also reckon the multi-arm guy is too complex, but thats a topic for another post.

Edit: Jeez, you guys have been busy, like ten posts have happened since I started this =/

Lol yeah we have been at it, yeah I like those rules for the rogue Psyker mob.

I think the multi limbed thing is in the lizards thread I can't remember now lol.

Yeah the lack of control could be tactical heavy, I thought you might like the risk though. Yeah if it's a psychic power you control then it's totally used defensively you cast it when you are about to get assaulted and you have demons killing your opponent, and obviously you would roll for their attacks or what not. Let me know.

I reckon change the blast to be S4 or 5 and make it cause blindness.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I reckon change the blast to be S4 or 5 and make it cause blindness.

Lol you and that blindness rule, I like what dakkamite has but I agree with the blast being str 4, as it is with those rules they are pretty much just to see what happens to them in game lol, really huge risk, but it does make a lot of sense.

@dakkamite how did you get that into a box?

Awesome well that was simple now just to confirm its powers i think. Are there going to be bonuses to the squad for having more than one psyker?

Well we do the ld thing for psychic powers depending on how many psykers and the psychic powers get a boost, I still have one more to make if you are satisfied with my other three.

Sounds good i think.

I wanted to do a malediction but this came to mind.

Solar Flare, witch fire 18" assault (number of models in target unit you get that many rolls to hit) str 2 AP - nothing. Special effects for first 2 psykers grants Blind, 4 grants concussive, 6 grants strike down, 8 is soul blaze and 10 causes the whole target squad to gets hot on all weapons if the squad suffers one unsaved wound.

There how is that?

Does it stack?

Of course, but some have additional modifiers like needing to fail a saving through, the rules still work as read in rule book, but you can get all 5 effects on the target.

Edit: after thinking about it, I think it should be 12"range since blind works if you hit and strike down also works as long as you cause a wound even if they save it. Not sure though 18 may still be ok, cause you still have to pass a psychic test then roll to hit.

Oh yeah I remember what I wanted to say now as long as the squad has 5 models the to hit roll on witch fires and beams is 3+, so they are bs4 for that purpose only.

As a balancer maybe enemies get +1 deny the witch roles against their powers as they are weaker psykers?

I edited my last post, and I would say no since you still have to roll to hit after psychic test for witch fires. Maybe if you're under 5 models then yes? Also these guys already have a lot bad going for them lol.

Ok I'm going to bed cya!

true, ill add it to the OP once its finished its wait in limbo

Interested in Beastmen mercs anyone?

Beastmen mercs? Oh boy this just gets better and better! Think we should use the regular stats of WHFB beastmen? (Just, you know, except the movement stat)

What do you know about warhammer beast men? We will draw inspiration from them I guess my original idea was close combat demolitions experts. So bombs various types of grenades and 2 close combat weapons.

You could add in in mutant renegades..........

That can work I have an idea for those but I read in the rule book that beast men where accepted as citizens by the imperium so I'm interested in having those available. So mutant renegades next.

So... Wait. Which ones are we doing now?

Beast men in my opinion.

Well, if we steal grenades from other races, we will already have a rather large supply. Maybe just give the xenos grenades another name so they're still able to be imperial citizens.

A demolition charge for every 5 models (squads of 10) is an easy start. Frag and krak. Defensive grenades? And 1 special grenade? Its a lot but they sacrifice having weapons except their 2 cc weapons

 Swastakowey wrote:
That can work I have an idea for those but I read in the rule book that beast men where accepted as citizens by the imperium so I'm interested in having those available. So mutant renegades next.

I have the old official stats for Beastmen if you want to look at over the weekend?

Wow sound's awesome. Yes please id appreciate that. Itslate at my end of the world so ill be back in the morning to check it out.

SkavenLord wrote:
So... Wait. Which ones are we doing now?

Lol, yeah it jumps all around here.

Interesting, so a commando unit, I take it these are elites? Also you said beast men are accepted into the imperium, are these more like really hairy people? Our like apes? Or more like were wolves without the blood lust and evil ness?

That sounds cool, maybe you can gives a special rule that if a model with a demo charge dies roll a d6 on a 4+ he sets it off as he dies trying to take the enemy with him, he doesn't care about his comrades he it's in it for himself!

Actually if it's like the fantasy ones, they're part bull-ish. Ironically, in WHFB, they're sort of part of chaos.

That special rule sounds like fun! Only thing is if his allies got caught in the blast, it might cause a chain reaction which, while incredibly fun and possibly hilarious to watch, may accidentaly kill the whole squad in one shot.

Well yeah that is 100% true, but I was thinking more of it happening in close combat, and out of 10 guys he said 1 per 5 models so it only counts to the model that has it, it's a one use weapon anyways I think. Most likely it will be used before then.

Another rule to add i think is get rid of the 1 grenade per squad rule. Instead the whole squad may throw grendaes if they choose. So potentially 10 grenades a turn?

Dat Guy wrote:Well yeah that is 100% true, but I was thinking more of it happening in close combat, and out of 10 guys he said 1 per 5 models so it only counts to the model that has it, it's a one use weapon anyways I think. Most likely it will be used before then.

Oh okay. That makes sense. Didn't see the part with 1 demolition charge per 5 guys. Sounds great!

Swastakowey wrote:Another rule to add i think is get rid of the 1 grenade per squad rule. Instead the whole squad may throw grendaes if they choose. So potentially 10 grenades a turn?

5 - 10 grenades thrown at unsuspecting squads each turn? Hmm. I may be wrong but if it's krak grenades that might be a little OP wouldn't it?

Can be powerful but krak grenades can only be used against monsterous creatues and vehicles and are not blast. So unless they hit the rear armour its not too threatening. Plus a grenades range is only 8". And chances are these guys will have little armour. Maybe limit it to 6 models with 1 Demo charge per 3 guys?

Well in close combat everyone can use grenades against vehicles and monstrous creatures. In the shooting phase that may be interesting, but 10 frag grenades with small blasts can be devastating, yeah the 6 guys thing works.

The normal rules are that one person in the squad can sacrifice shooting to use a grende with 8" range but im fairly sure krak can be thrown too but not at anything but armour and monsters.

But even with defensive grenades, krak, far grenades and 2 demos, if they can all throw them and run around as a 6 model team thats a very unique grenadier team thats not too OP. We just need stats and points.

You can throw a krak grenade at anything it's just in close combat you can only use them against MC's and vehicles.

Oh wow ok. Is 6 krak grenades at 8" really that devistating? Given that chances are goat people will have a BS of 3?

No, I didn't mean it that way. It's just, if you do that you are completely ignoring a rule about 1 model per unit may shoot a grenade. I would say give them a special rule where every model can throw one as snap fires. Or if not snap firing, rolls of 1 the model determined randomly dies with no save what so ever.

Give them the gets hot rule on all their grenades. Simple cool and balancing I think

 Swastakowey wrote:
Give them the gets hot rule on all their grenades. Simple cool and balancing I think

Yes that's better, now come up with a reason everyone can throw a grenade. I like the gets hot rule, but they will still get a save, compared to what I said. If a grenade goes off in your hand or face you should be dead.

Now you gave me an idea, how about they gets hot on 1 and 2. It would represent the difficulty and danger of every one reaching to grab or pull a pin or set or activate the charge while their enemy has guns pointed at them.

I like your concept of this unit.

i was gonna give them no armour save because of all the heavy gear they are carrying. So on a one they have no saves as it is and poof. A 1 and a 2 could work if we wanna give them a save too. either one works.

Do they have any other type of guns?

I just had grenades and 2 CC weapons as their gear so far. Maybe a pistol and one CC?

Are they an elite choice?

Well, i was thinking why not make it a new FOC, add in the unreliable mercinary rule (on a roll of one the unit didnt show up) and bam.

So you may only take 2 merc units per 1000 points. They do not hold objectives, they do not count as anything but non scoring troop choices.

Sound ok or a bit too much?

It sounds really cool, so you can't take the mercs by themselves then as their own force?

Thats what we can do afterwards. Its easier right now if we make them with unique roles then organise them into a FOC later. Also we will consider this a draft thread so once we are satisfied ill make a published copy thread which is neat and finalised for people to see/use.

But for now it might be easier to just spit out merc units then once we are done make some leaders and arrange them into a FOC slot.

I see your point to an extent, but I think doing at least two elites, 2 troops, and two heavies and two fast attack might put it in more of a perspective in my opinion.

Like the squad you are making now depending on if they are a heavy or an elite choice could influence the way they are made, if they are elite they would be a stealthy commando build. If they are heavy they would be a in your face kamikaze like unit lol.

Hmmm i reckon heavy suits them more as they are pretty unstable for elites. Heavy support it will be i think.

Ok I will give you both options to see what you think. As a heavy choice they would have:

Unit composition 6, up to two models may exchange their auto slugger for a demo charge for 10 pts or a rpg at 10 points or a grenade launcher at 10 points. They get the dug in special rule. When in area terrain and they stay still for a turn their BS is +1 and they get +1 to their cover save. They all have both frag & krak grenades. Also when dug in they hit on 5+ for over watch. They have scout special rule.

Auto slugger is 12"range assault 3 str 3 AP -nothing

RPG(rocket propelled grenade) 36"range heavy 1 str 7 AP 3

For the elite section:
Unit composition 6, they are armed with a slug pistol and close combat weapon and frag and krak grenades. Up to two models may take a demolition charge or spike grenades for 10, or an auto slugger for 5 points. They have move through cover, shrouded, and grenade flurry. They have infiltrate special rule.

Slug pistol range 12" str 2 ap -nothing

Spike grenade range 8"poison 4+ AP 3 when you hit with this grenade roll a d3 it causes that many hits on target unit or model.

Grenade flurry special rule, instead of making a normal shooting attack, the whole unit opts to throw grenades, this is done with risk though since the enemy is almost upon them and they are trying to pull the pin or set/activate the explosive device, their BS is reduced by -1 and on rolls of 1a randomly determined model dies with no save of any kind as the device explodes in their hand or face.

There sorry it took me so long hope you like at least one of them.

I prefer the elite choice for its uniqueness and it comes with its risks as well.

Ok, do you actually like it? Or do you just prefer it over the heavy choice?

I was trying to keep the selection as it would in its choice- I thought you would pick the elite one :p

I actually love the idea of the elite guys personally. I have models planned etc for them already. Do you like the elite choice?

Yes I do, I am just concerned about the rules dispute other people might have with the grenades thing.

I think both units can be very effective in different situations. I would like to see both in action, maybe they can both be separate choices. I think the spike grenades can be competing against the demo charge, since the demo charge is a large blast and is AP 2 str 10 or 8 I can't remember but can scatter onto you or if you hit up to 3 hits with the spike grenades and is poison 4+ with AP 3

I know but, we can make another unit your heavy support idea if you like?

Its up to you if you want to, its your codex. If we are done here what's next or do we need to work on these beastmen commandos?

Next are mutant renegades someone suggested. I was thinking either having a Inquisitor routine set up where you have different mutations to choose from or rolling randomly like the penal guard? ill put the beast men up in the op a little later.

Well it depends on how you want them run fluff wise, use the inquisitorial henchmen set up if you want it like you can pick and choose who you want to hire as mercs or operate them as the penal legion if you want to represent it as a assortment of what ever you hired is what you got, it could also be looked as you were in a hurry and hired who ever and that's who came. Both can fit to the style.

Im in the same boat. Both have huge potential. If we rolled we could just give out abilities that mutants may have, giving it that unreliable factor which other people will more likely enjoy to FIGHT haha and it stops really powerful builds getting thought out.

Yeah that's true let's work with that.

So we need 6 mutant ideas, ill start with a roll of 1.

A roll of one:

The mercenary captain has taken you for a fool and sent runty lobotomized mutants like lambs to the slaughter.

BS:1 WS:2 T:4 S:3 I:1 A:2 Sve:6+ Ld:5

Wargear: CC weapon

Special Rules:

Mindless: They must move, run and charge the nearest enemy unit. They are fearless.

Mob: For every model you outnumber your enemy on the first round of combat you get +1 attack. So if you have 20 models against 10 enemies you get 10 extra attacks.

Sounds awesome as hell, I will work on some tomorrow.

Same here, chat then.

Beastmen, homo sapiens variatus
As feared and distrusted by many inhabitants of the Imperium as the mutant, some frontier worlds still recruit these beings – humans malformed with the head and instincts of a beast. Preachers moving amongst them find them beings who lack intelligence but who can be fired with a simple but fierce devotion to the Imperial cult as they attempt to atone for their obvious sin. On occassion, renegade Imperial officers or unscrupilious merenary recruiters can gain control of these beastial creatures and unleash them on enemies for their own profit, like Ogryns their minds are simple and easily manipulated.

“Beastman Bad. Bad Beastman. Dirty. Emperor no like. Beastman love Emperor. Give blood to Emperor. Give heads to Emperor. Say sorry.”

Packmaster Grasht, attached to the 7th Company, 14th Gratanor Regiment.

Beastman Attack Squad
Beastman - WS 4, BS 3, S3, T4, W1, A1, LD 6
Pack Master -WS 4, BS 3, S4, T4, W1, A1, LD 8

Equipment: 2 Close Combat Weapons

Special Rules: Acute Senses, Furious Charge,

Unit: 9 Beastmen (Infantry) and 1 Packmaster (Infantry Character)

Options:Each model may exchange one close combat weapon for a las or auto pistol - 1pt per model
one model may take a flamer - 5pts
Upto 3 models may take a Shotgun - 2pts
The unit may take flak armour - 1pt per model
The Pack Master may replace one or both close combat weapons with:
Power Weapon - 15pts
Hand Flamer - 5pts
The Pack Master may take Carapace armour - 2pts
The Pack Master may take Frenzon Controller - 15pts

At the start of any assault phase the Frenzon controller may be activated - granting all other models in the controllers unit the Shred Special Rule with their melee weapons only for the rest of the phase.
Auto pistol - treat as a las pistol in all respects.

Where those the official rules where they? We kind of went a different direction and made them grenadiers (see the OP). In some ways they are similar but the gear is what changes along with the grenade rules for them. Let me know if you would be happy playing them because i am looking forward to using them.

My version / updated for 6th Ed of the official rules - play with them how you like

In the original rules they could take power shields!

Heck lol haha thats crazy. Well yours are great too so we might find a place for them, in another unit later. Once we have done the mutant renegades.

Ok, I have a question, what is a power shield? Its not a storm shield or combat shield is it?

I don't know what to do for the mutant pack, the one you put up is interesting my mind goes blank.

I have an idea for a servitor type of model, there is two options one is a shooty one that is ws 1 BS 3 str 3 T 4 I 2 w 1 A 1 ld 5. He can be given a random gun from the following list roll a d6 for each model, 1-2 its an auto gun, 3-4 it's a flamer, 5-6 it's a crude version of the melta gun (str 7 AP 2) with melta special rule and gets hot.

Here is the close combat version mostly same stats as above except ws 3 and BS 1 equipped with a close combat weapon and roll for the second weapon, 1-2 is a buzz saw (+1str AP -) 3-4 is a drill (AP 5) 5-6 is a blade (+1 initiative)

They have a special rule called cannon fodder, you can have any model take a look out sir and pass it to one of these servitors only, you must be within 3"to so so. The living flesh being afraid to die grab the auto matons as their shield.
I forgot their armor save, id say 5+ also they would be 8 or so points a piece.
Hope that's good a sorry it took me so long.

Power Shield - thin sheet of Plassteel incorporating a field generator - basically a combat shield - it used to give +1 save vs melee and close range shot but nothing against l/R or explosions.

Other thoughts form the old RT period

Human Mercanries with jump packs
Adeptus Mechanicus Explorators - they are paid in discovered technology rather than cash.
Ogryn Squads

Be also quite cool to give the Beastmen the option of Scout SR for a cost or unlocked with a Special Character

Ogryns and kroot i will add in the final copy but hell yeah.

Sweet As for special characters i think we will finish with all our ideas, pick the coolest ones and then make special characters, we will get back to those

And for the mutants maybe we have a mutant leader who is always the same and we change the servitors to a squad upgrade, much like the body guards from IG codex.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Ogryns and kroot i will add in the final copy but hell yeah.

Sweet As for special characters i think we will finish with all our ideas, pick the coolest ones and then make special characters, we will get back to those

And for the mutants maybe we have a mutant leader who is always the same and we change the servitors to a squad upgrade, much like the body guards from IG codex.

Sorry I should have been more clearer, the unit I was trying to make aren't servitors exactly, they are servitor "like" they are like cybernetic mutants, they have these weapons fused with their flesh.

Yeah I realized I worded that wrong, I should have said I don't have many if only one unit and even that isn't to special. I dunno its difficult to make different upgradeable mutants, there is only so much you can do.

I know what you mean. After work ill put up something I think will work for the squad. Its a cool idea though

Another thing we could try is to just roll off D6 for each of the stats for the unit at the start of the game.

Thats a simply way of doing it, then give them access to limited wargear so you can buy for their stats. For example if you roll a 1 for BS and 6 for WS your mutants arent stuck with lasguns or something haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The D6 idea is actually pretty good, its simple and you can have some weird combinations which have potential but also can fail. Pretty cool i think. You guys all good for me to run with it?

A d6 random stat sounds interesting but it can turn out to be very OP. Yeah it can turn out very bad also. If you do really want to go that way which I don't recommend to random roll a d6 for stats, but you can do a d3+1 but then how do you acclimate points? A 4 stat line all across is worth more points then someone who is 2 stats all across.

A good randomize method is either weapons load out or a special rules ability.

Actually yeah, D3+1 is probably best to go (armor saves should probably be just 6+ - D3 actually)

for armour saves maybe roll a D3, 1 = 4+ 2 = 5+ 3 = 6+?

Im still keen on a penal legion type special ability chart which can be simple.?

If you want save that chart for a different unit, I think having to many things on a unit that is already complicated is over kill and un fun.

Glad you guys like the d3 roll thing, its just point acclimation that's hard, how can you justify a 4 across model to a 2 across model?

maybe the inquisitor routine set up is the way to go then?

Yeah, I thought that is what we were doing :p that's why I saw your mutant unit and I came up with my servitor type of mutant unit.

ahhh well yes, i think that is the way to go. Well i like your meat sheild idea so thats a definate. We need a mutant leader? Any ideas?

The hulk, well at first I said that as a joke, but it might be interesting as a profile he would be ld 5 like the rest of them but they are fearless? He would be str 6 toughness 5 and everything else is 3 he would have two wounds and a 5+ save with a 5+ feel no pain. He could not use any guns he can have a special rule that he rolls a d3 to find something to throw, on a 1 its a model from his own unit that he tosses for str 4 AP- nothing 2-5 its a rock or debris or otherly equal things that all have a range of 12" that is str 6 AP 6. On a 6 he picks up a un used missile or bomb or fuel tank or some type of explosive and its str 9 AP 3. If not I have another example.

So an ogryin with FnP as the leader and a weapon that has random ammunition... sounds good. Maybe have a d6 chart but 1= something, 2-3 = something, 4-5 = something and 6 = spomething? 1 being bad, 6 being good?

That's an ogryn stat? Damn I thought they were both s and t 5 and 3 wounds? No? Oh well yeah if you want to do the weapon that way you can but I was thinking no weapon and he just finds something to throw, I think the way I had it was balanced with 3 options, the average one was in the middle and the other 2 with a 1 chance was either really bad or really good.

I mean a 1 can be str 3 and AP-nothing 2-3 can be str 5 ap-nothing then 4-5 can be str 7 AP 5 and a 6 can be str 9 AP 3. I personally don't think it needs 4 options. 1 bad one 4 good ones then one awesome one

Yes i agree and making it the same stats as an ogryn is easier points wise (35 points a model they are i think) but if you dont like the ogryn thing we can weaken it.

No I am cool with it, I just didn't know

awesome so we have the leader and the meat sheild mutants. probably need a shooty one, a hitty one and a flamer one to start with?

Well are you counting my servitor ones? We know yours was good.

Yes yours are in, mine can be cheap filler as they are useless but i have a cool rule for them ill add to make them usefull. So thats 3 mutants all up including the leader.

I like yours we can use both of ours, you made it sound like you weren't going to use one of them, I think you should keep your first one the same exact way you made them, there out number rule is cool and will make people need to decide how they want to run this unit.

Because the unit is no longer randomly determined ill make a release the pack rule where at any point during the game the lobotomized runts will get released forming their own unit and follow their rules.

How could the unit be random? I was wondering why you wanted it to do it penal legion like. Penal legion only determines one of 3 different styles or special rules they get. I don't know how you would make a random unit.

If you can explain it better to me or give an example so maybe I can work off it?

I meant like you roll for what batch of mutants you get, but its over the top. a routine set up is better.

What i meant is we have 6 different mutants and depending on your dice roll depends on the unit you get.. but its too much anyways


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I meant like you roll for what batch of mutants you get, but its over the top. a routine set up is better.

What i meant is we have 6 different mutants and depending on your dice roll depends on the unit you get.. but its too much anyways

Better to just customise the unit, i think we need a shooty mutant and a hitty mutant then a flamer unit and they can make the base of what you can have in a squad

Oh ok, yeah it would be really difficult and at best we could only probably get it to a d3 choice of mutants because we would have to do the profiles similar and make sure the points cost is equal. It would take a lot of going back and forth to make sure it's balanced.

Yea it worked better in my head at the time haha. Well the flamer one is easy. Any ideas for the hitty one and the shooty one?

What's the squads minimum size and what is a hitty model? I am not sure how to take it lol, for a shooty model though..how about like a gatling gun that is salvo 3/5 it's str 5 AP 4 range 18" because it's so heavy and cumbersome the firer suffers -1 to BS skill. I would say their stats are 3 across besides w 1 and a 1 and armor save like the other guys and ld 5

I think by a hitty model he means a model more focused on melee.

As for minimums squad size, maybe 4 models?

Well the way I was thinking because it's a retinue it should be a larger size squad. Um if "hitty"was being referred to as melee here is my stupid idea, this mutant is hard to be honest.

Ws 3 BS 1 S 3 T 3 I 1 w 1 as 6+ and one attack. They have no weapons but one of their arms is "mutantly" huge :p it counts as a power fist but at AP 3.

I really can't think of anything else for them sorry, you never mentioned about the shooty model I mentioned :p

Sorry guys been busy. Shooty one snd hitty one seems good I think. The Shooty one can for free trade their gun for a flamer?

Id say so for simplicity reasons and you are forgiven even though you're the boss! You make da call shots bro.

awesome well that just about covers it i think. Ill add it to the OP later on. So whats next for you guys? Kroot and ogryns are an easy choice, ill add those too. What about a vehicle or bikers etc of sorts? Something not infantry.


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oh and skaven lord yea minimum of 5 maximum of 20?

 Swastakowey wrote:

oh and skaven lord yea minimum of 5 maximum of 20?

Sounds good! Alright, so for non infantry mercenaries, maybe a transport? Like maybe a looted rhino or a renegade IG chimera? Also, artillery is something not a lot of armies have. Throwing that in can make something different.

Hey if you guys want we can use my space wolf transport idea without all the extra complicated rules.

Transport capacity is 5 armor 12 front and 12 side with 11 rear, it has a heavy flamer and a crude multi melta 18"range str 7 AP 2 melta. It has a boost engine that allows you to move a further 6"in your movement phase without effecting shooting. But you roll 2d6 on any roll of 1 the vehicle becomes immobilized if a double 1 the engine explodes and so does the vehicle.


Points cost...id say 90? It also has three hull points

Ok its a start, but we need an idea behind it, being a vehicle i think its pretty good except only transports 5, maybe it can be a dual battle tank / transport (like a falcon) or be a strait up transport (wave serpent) Maybe let it trade its weapons for transport space or its transport space for weapons? or maybe even make a chasis and from there you can pick and choose bits to vreate the vehicle you need?

 Swastakowey wrote:
awesome well that just about covers it i think. Ill add it to the OP later on. So whats next for you guys? Kroot and ogryns are an easy choice, ill add those too. What about a vehicle or bikers etc of sorts? Something not infantry.


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oh and skaven lord yea minimum of 5 maximum of 20?

There is plenty of room for variants on the basic Kroot form - you can nick loads from Avatar re this - the big predatory "cat" would be cool:

So something like this:

Sulkreth'Ma
Some Kroot, usually those that have been alone for long periods, have evolved into large but lithe and deadily hunters, preying on anything they can stalk and kill although limited intelligence remains in these apex predators. They can dimily recognise other Kroot as "pack" but their killing instincts can not normally be retrained for long.

WS 5, BS0, S6, T5, W4, I4, A4, LD6, Monsterous Creature
Special Rules: Fleet, Monster-Hunter, Night Vision, Scout,

Re Bikers - how about the good old Squat bikers?

Kroot guy is cool but is there more rules for it i.e points cost?

And squat bikers are a great idea. Care to expand on those?

Not sure on the Kroot Cost........how about 90pts?

Guild BIkers - Fast Attack 90pts
Few remaining Squat Strongholds remain in the galaxy - most having been consumed by the Tyranid menance - however some remote outposts and holds survive. On occassion a Engneering Guild Master may find common cause with a Mercenary force or simply be well paid in artifacts or minerals to join them. Engineers wear a personalised uniform of leathers, festoned with Lodge and Guild symbols.

Unit: 1 Guildmaster and 3 Bikers
Guildmaster WS4, BS4, S4, T5, W2, I3, A2, LD9 Sv 3+, Bike (Character)
Biker WS4, BS 4, S3, T5, W1, I2, A1, LD8 Sv 3+, Bike
Attack Trike WS4, BS4, S3, T5, W2, I2, A2, LD8, Sv 3+, Bike

Wargear: Leathers, Bolt Pistol, Chainaxe or Chains (Close Combat Weapon), Krak Grenades,
Attack Trike: Multi-Melta
Special Rules: Hatred (Tyranids), Stuborn,
Options: May include upto 4 extra Bikers..................18pts per model
Upto 2 Bikers may have one item of : Storm Bolter 5pts, Melta Gun 10pts,
Any other Biker may have Shotgun 1pt
The Guildmaster may take: Power Weapon 15pts, Refractor Field 10pts, Auspex 5pts, Melta Bombs 5pts
May add upto one Attack Trike for 55pts

As i dontknow much about bikers (only have 3 jetbikes ) are these pretty much the same as standard bikes? If so maybe make a defining feature about them.

They are quite like Marine bikers but with a inbuilt character upgrade and more H-t-H focussed

Hmmm, squats are very similar to dwarves right?

Maybe a bonus to hammer of wrath hits due to (dwarves are amazing smiths? in 40k they could have high grade stuff) superior bikes than that of other races.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Ok its a start, but we need an idea behind it, being a vehicle i think its pretty good except only transports 5, maybe it can be a dual battle tank / transport (like a falcon) or be a strait up transport (wave serpent) Maybe let it trade its weapons for transport space or its transport space for weapons? or maybe even make a chasis and from there you can pick and choose bits to vreate the vehicle you need?

That sounds cool we can always have more than one vehicle too, I did the transport capacity 5 because they are mercenaries and usually are small squads and also if you want you can addsome spikes or razors to it and if it gets charged every model has to take a dangerous terrain check.

I like that kroot monstrous creature but maybe we should put like a tamer or master to it?

Also did you mean scout bikers instead of squat?

I have an idea to modify Sistersidneys sister of battle light bike.

Dat Guy wrote:

I like that kroot monstrous creature but maybe we should put like a tamer or master to it?

How about maybe a sort of Rider that fires a turret on top of it (then again, that would be the krootox all over again). The rider could also have a powerful melee weapon that it uses when it assaults.

Also did you mean scout bikers instead of squat?

I don't think so. I think squats were a xenos race in 40k that were the sci-fi equivalent of dwarves.

Alright so first of all which one will we work on first, the kroot and squats are well developed so i say we

do the kroot first
then squats
then the vehicle?

That way we get it done one at a time.

Yeah, let's get the kroot done first. That way, that will leave us with some time to think of how to work on the vehicle.

Agreed, so we have a monsterous creature that seems stealthy and fast. Maybe we can do a think where you mark an enemy model after deployement and if that model is slain by the moster it gets a bonus? Has to be an HQ of sorts.

Something to emphasize the hunter/predator thing.

Found this on the Lexicanum:

A unique feature of the Kroot is that they evolve by absorbing the traits of other species, a process accomplished by eating their flesh. Due to this, the many Kroot warbands across the galaxy often look radically different

How about this kroot unit is sort of unconsciously power addicted and seeks leaders and other powerful opponents to devour and in turn, absorb their traits?

Wow very cool. That's perfect I think

Should we maybe add a benefit to killing said HQ? Any idea what the benefit should be?

Here is an idea

Whebever the model defeats an enemy character they may choose on USR that the unit does not already have. They may not take a USR granted from wargear. If it slays a warlord it may, in addition to taking on USR take the warlord trait also.

Seem cool?

Yes that does seem cool and makes sense.

Awesome, So we keep him the same with the one change above? ill add him to the list later too. Next is squat bikes.

So is that a no on the transport vehicle?
Alsofor the bikes I was working on.

They are light and basic bikes nothing durable like space marines. But its light so the speed is greater.

The profile would be ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t 3 I 3 ld 7 AS 4 and 1 attack base. The unit because they are so fast have the furious charge special rule. They can also move a further d6 in both its Movement and turbo boosting but when they do each model has to take a dangerous terrain check. Also if they have to take an initiative check for winning or losing an assault they add +1.. They have a squad size of 4-8.


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Forgot to add their war gear, the bike is armed with a twin linked auto gun. Each model may take a flamer at 4 points per model and their base point cost is 28?


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Crap meant 5 points not 4


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Two models may take chain axes which give +1 str and AP 5. The squad leader may take a chain axe or a power sword. Power sword costs 15 points, the chain axe costs 10 points. 2 models may take melta bombs too, I think at 5 or 10 points.

We will do the transport vehicle but we may as well get these ideas out of the way as they are already mostly done. I like it, so squat speed bikers? Anyone disagree? i like them because its different and unique.

Sounds good to me!

Awesome, now for the tank.

I reckon we start with a basic armour 12 tank with 12 transport capacity then we can buy weapons for it and each weapon takes up X amount of transport space. Any ideas?

Well here are a few ideas for weapons:

- Twin Linked Heavy bolter (4 transport space)
- Twin Linked Heavy Flamer (3 transport space)
- Twin Linked Missile Launcher (5 transport space)
- Multi Melta (4 transport space)

- Sponson Heavy Bolters (5 transport space)
- Sponson Boltguns (up to 4 Boltguns, 1 transport space each)
- Sponson Lascannons (6 transport space)

- Storm Bolter (1 transport space)
- Hunter Killer Missile (1 transport space)

Looks good so far, maybe the option to remove 10 transport capacity for a bigger gun?

Sounds good but then we would need a gun to use for that.

Lascannons maybe? That or maybe we make a bigger gun to throw onto the vehicle? Sort of a big salvo-ish weapon might be nice.
Thunderfire cannon maybe?

Im thinking make a bigger gun to chuck on, maybe give it a skyfire weapon choice too?

Um, I got to jump in here, I would say I don't think it fits or make sense for it to have sky fire.

I don't know if you seen my own personal threads for space wolf stuff but the average person who posted disliked or thought it didn't fit or was not balanced.

I personally see their point now, also I would not think that mercenaries would have a anti air gun. Also that vehicle you guys are doing I think is to much for it bring a transport, either lessen the weapons or take out the transport capacity.


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Ok I like what you guys are doing with the customization of the tank but how about no transport capacity and the vehicle can have 3 weapons.

We break them down into 3 categories and you can pick from their, the short range can include heavy flamer, melta gun, shrapnel cannon all at 12"range or less. Next then you have medium range between 18"to 30" like an gatling gun, multi melta, surge cannon. Then you have long range 36"to 48" like a plasma cannon, a crude Las cannon, ragefire launcher.The shrapnel cannon is a 12"range large blast str 3 AP-nothing fleshbane. The surge cannon is 30" range small blast str 5 AP 3 gets hot armor bane. The ragefire launcher is 42"range heavy 3 str 6 AP -nothing soul blaze. The crude Las cannon is different by being str 8 instead of 9.

There, let me know if I have to clarify anything.


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Giving a big crazy gun to mercenaries that the other races have might not make sense.

Its a trade off. I can have a twin linked bolter and Carry 8 models or I can carry no models and take 3 bolters and carry nobody. I don't think that's very powerful. Its worse than other transports.and for the skyfire it will be like one weapon with skyfire not the whole tank. But its still in the idea phase.

I know what you meant about the skyfire gun, but what's the point? How does it make sense? Also at armor 12 all around and having a twin linked heavy Bolter with 8 capacity left is way over compared to the razorback which is armor 11 front and side and armor 10 on the rear, with a twin linked heavy Bolter it only has 6 transport capacity.

For anti air they have a dog fighter jet. Armor 11 all around equipped with 2 gatling guns and 4 striker missiles. It will have a special rule called bombing run. If it passes over a enemy unit it rolls a d3 it gets that many small blast s on that unit that roll to scatter as normal. The bombs are str 5 AP 6.

The striker missiles are str 9 AP 3

a chimera has 2 heavy bolters armour 12 (not all round but the mercianry one was just meant to have front 12) plus a storm bolter a hunter killer, 6 fire ports and 12 transport capacity. Plus more upgrades. So i wouldnt class it as powerful.

The idea (in my head) is that it can be a transport, OR a mobile light gun platform, or mobile light anti air, or a medium gun tank. So it can be a tank, or a transport kind of thing. Its gonna cost points and for aa 1 twin linked auto cannon is not much really. But if you really want to we can make seperate tanks for support and transport.

 Swastakowey wrote:
a chimera has 2 heavy bolters armour 12 (not all round but the mercianry one was just meant to have front 12) plus a storm bolter a hunter killer, 6 fire ports and 12 transport capacity. Plus more upgrades. So i wouldnt class it as powerful.

The idea (in my head) is that it can be a transport, OR a mobile light gun platform, or mobile light anti air, or a medium gun tank. So it can be a tank, or a transport kind of thing. Its gonna cost points and for aa 1 twin linked auto cannon is not much really. But if you really want to we can make seperate tanks for support and transport.

It's up to you

the way i see it is that it provides for the mercinaries a transport a tank or a bit of both without having to make 2+ vehicles for it. At the end of the day its not a scary tank and we have yet to tally up the points. But an armour 12/11/10 bare bones tank will pribably be around th 60 point mark?

Just a standard tank with no special rules.

Didn't someone mention a mercenary special rule where they're unreliable and may not show up for battle? We could put that onto the tank.

I was gonna make it a mercinary wide rule, because it is a good idea,.

Ah, okay. Well does anyone have anything else they would like to add or change to the vehicle?

I have the day off tomorrow so ill update the OP then put my take on the vehicle up. But its pretty close to perfect

So this gives us about... wow, we already have eight mercenaries done!

Shall we give a flyer a go?

Hell yea, maybe we can do something a little different, like an organic flier? Or a flying monsterous creature? Maybe.

SkavenLord wrote:So this gives us about... wow, we already have eight mercenaries done!

Shall we give a flyer a go?

Swastakowey wrote:Hell yea, maybe we can do something a little different, like an organic flier? Or a flying monsterous creature? Maybe.

Did you guys miss the post when I talked about a flyer? If it's not what you want I understand.

Dat Guy wrote:


For anti air they have a dog fighter jet. Armor 11 all around equipped with 2 gatling guns and 4 striker missiles. It will have a special rule called bombing run. If it passes over a enemy unit it rolls a d3 it gets that many small blast s on that unit that roll to scatter as normal. The bombs are str 5 AP 6.

The striker missiles are str 9 AP 3

Um monstrous creatures rule especially when they are flying but I think that's over kill tbh. An organic flyer sounds interesting as well. But when it comes to stuff like this I think it should be basic and simple. Doesn't mean it can't have special rules or cool features.

See I am trying to envision it as both it's own army codex and being used with the new mercenary rules.

In the 40k universe I envision mercenaries to have basic and somewhat outdated equipment but also unique and still useful, I know in our modern world mercenaries are better equipped then the country armies. But in 40k it's different especially since the imperium is so racist and discriminatory. Yeah I know these guys can lot weapons and equipment but I don't see them having the resources to maintain it's quality, hence why some of the weapon variants I did are labeled 'crude'

Shoot! Yeah, I missed the post.

Looks great! Maybe, say 110 points?

Also, don't know if this would work but how about limiting the amount of bombs on the aircraft (limiting the amount of times it can perform a bombing run) a possible upgrade can be increasing the amount of bombs it can have.

Sorry missed that too. Yes sounds awesome. 10 S5 AP - shots twin linked for the gatling guns?

Yes and yes. How about 3 or 4 turns for bombing? The missiles there are only 4 of and 1 use I didn't mention earlier so at first I was going to leave the bombs unlimited but I guess 3 or 4 bombing runs, games end on turn 5-7 and there is no definite the flyer will come in turn 2 so it's cool and works


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What else do you think this flyer should have or needs? Personally I think it's interesting, the gatling gun is short ranged but that doesn't matter much, I like the missiles and the bombing run is almost like a vector strike except it doesn't ignore cover.

I reckon limit it to one bomb a turn but give it unlimited shots. Are the missiles blast or single shot?


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An idea for vector strike is it could drop gas like those crop planes, can instead of using weapons it can choose to do D6 + 3 poison 3+ hits AP- Against any units it flies over up to a maximum of 3 units one use only.

Yeah that was my original idea for the bombs, I wasn't clear about it being one target per turn. Hmm the missiles original were just a single shot but I am liking the small blast maybe. I put them for anti vehicle, it depends on what race is piloting the flyer, I assume it's some type of human or humanoid. Probably BS 3 then.


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 Swastakowey wrote:
I reckon limit it to one bomb a turn but give it unlimited shots. Are the missiles blast or single shot?


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An idea for vector strike is it could drop gas like those crop planes, can instead of using weapons it can choose to do D6 + 3 poison 3+ hits AP- Against any units it flies over up to a maximum of 3 units one use only.

Lol that is so OP lol. Would that be d6 +3 total hits between all three targets or d6+3 for each? Regardless it is really OP, I guess you can have a one use of it that's a large blast and any unit hit by the large blast suffers d3+1 wounds at 3+ poison. Yeah that other way you had it was incredibly powerful. Even though mine is also probably OP also lol but at least it can't kill most monstrous creatures in one hit :p

I always start off op then work it down lol, true it is but i was gonna put units could hit you without needing skyfire.

As for the missiles since a flyer has the chance of firing 4 weapons per turn if you need a vehicle dead 4 of those missiles should work. Damn now I'm thinking those small blasts are nice for it.

I wanted a special rule for the flyer where if it suffers a wrecked or explodes you can choose an enemy squad that's within 6"and in a 90° arc suffer the crash and burn flyer rule but still roll for scatter


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 Swastakowey wrote:
I always start off op then work it down lol, true it is but i was gonna put units could hit you without needing skyfire.

hmmm maybe we should think about its role. A tank hunter?

Swastakowey wrote:I always start off op then work it down lol, true it is but i was gonna put units could hit you without needing skyfire.

What's the point of it being a flyer then?

Swastakowey wrote:hmmm maybe we should think about its role. A tank hunter?

Well this is where it gets interesting for me because I never like to field flyers as strictly anti vehicle because they might come in on turn two and if they don't and you need a vehicle dead of you are sol if you relied on it. That's why I like to make it anti infantry or dual purposed. That's why they are a hard unit type to deal with because flyers are hard to hit by most things and they can whittle down your opponents last scoring unit. But I have those str 9 missiles since they are the highest str gun this codex will have and to deal with other flyers if needed

I meant when it dropped its gas lol, but yea i was just throwing stuff out there. yea S9 is good, why not give them lascannons? Same as the missile really

Well so far any Las cannons we did I made them crude, since they are looted and older we can't up keep them so I was thinking all Las cannons are str 8 instead of nine, also what if we make the missiles small blast like you mentioned?

How about give it anti infantry missiles (small blast) or lascannons with the lower strength?

If you want we can do that, I think with 10 twin linked gatling gun shots though that's a lot of anti infantry and we can make those missiles we have already small blasts it can still be good against vehicles and still explode a few models who suck at life. With the 2 twin linked gatling guns and 4 missiles and bombing run this flyer has a lot going for IMO what else do you want buddy?

I think the missiles and Gatling cannons are good enough in my opinion. Sound pretty cool. You happy with it?

If you want the Las cannons can be an upgrade from the gatling guns.


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Yes I am happy with it if you are, what's next on the agenda?

That's a good idea yes

 Swastakowey wrote:
That's a good idea yes

I would say the flyers point cost is around 190 points.the Las cannon upgrade would be 10 points.


What's the next unit?

Sounds about fair I think.

Crap I think the Las cannon upgrade should be 20 points I was looking at other equivalent upgrades and a Las cannon was 35, so the replacement will be a 2 shot non twin linked str 8 Las cannons for 20 points.

Awesome, well that is a flier done now. Anything else that might be cool to add?

Wait, we are done? How many troop selections do we have? I know you wanted it as a mercenary selection but don't you ever want to play it as a whole army?

I was thinking of a vehicle with front 12, side and rear 10 it would be armed with 6 hunter killer missiles and a barrage gun that shoots like tiny molotovs it would be 36" range small blast barrage 3 str 4 AP 5 ignores cover. It would cost 105 points and has 3 hull points.

No lol we can go on and a napalm rocket battery sounds cool

Yeah if it's napalm it would have to be at least str 5 AP 4 barrage 3 gets hot though. I like that idea.of course it still ignores cover and it just got a 15 point increase. I am conflicted between your napalm and my air exploding molotovs, it's like napalm just envelops and melts the enemy where the bursting molotov explode in their face and burns their face off, hmmm

How many troop selections do we currently have?

Tomorrow when i add everything to the OP we can figure that stuff out, and Napalm rockets are pretty much the same concept as a Molotov.

Make it small blast heavy flamers stats and give it a rule that any unit that is affected counts as moving through difficult and dangerous terrain for their next move. 36" range ordinance.

WHAT!?

Napalm is way more effective, also yeah you are right, let's make it 36" range ordinance barrage 2 str 5 AP 4 ignores cover gets hot and molten. The molten special rule makes the unit count as moving through difficult and dangerous terrain. It still has 6 hunter killer missiles on it though :p and it comes to 120 points.

How about it can choose to shoot One or the other? either barrage 2 napalm or D3 hunter killers?

-_- it's ok if you didn't realize this but the ordinance rule you can only shoot just one ordinance or your other weapons. :p hunter killers are one shot each so.... I guess we can reduce it to 4 if you want.

I meant you could choose to fire D3 hunter killer's or fire the napalm. Because the napalm is far more effective than hunter killers so I think D3 hunter killers makes both weapon modes usegu.

Well a hunter killer missile is one use only and it's just a str 8 AP 3 at unlimited range. I put the hunter killer missiles on for looks and thinking since yes most vehicles have 3 hull points it generally takes more then 3 shots so with 6 one shot hunter killers as an all or nothing shoot out that might not even destroy a vehicle.


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I mean maybe the napalm is a little over kill also.


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Maybe we should just scrap this vehicle, that napalm is really powerful regardless of the gets hot.


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Well that's the thing also with multiple modes is I want trying to do that since both the whirlwind and thunderfire cannon have alternative ammunition. I was trying to give it a sense of individuality and with a str 5 AP 4 barrage 2 ignores cover it can get 10 hits with good scatters so that's why the gets hot. The hk missiles for fun.

Hmmmm maybe just let it fire 1 shot and make it heavy? That way its not too powerful and can fire a heavy stubber or something small along with it. Makes it a lot less powerful.

We should just leave it out.
What other units do we need?

:O we forgot HQ choices!

HQ and indepednant characters really. The cool special stuff

HQ? Hmm... These may be a little bland but here are a few ideas:

-Ork Kaptin
-Exiled Imperium... thing (Commissar? Exorcist?)
-A sort of renegade engineer (kind of like a techmarine that can build stuff like turrets, mine fields, or better cover)
-Dark Eldar assassin

SkavenLord wrote:
HQ? Hmm... These may be a little bland but here are a few ideas:

-Ork Kaptin
-Exiled Imperium... thing (Commissar? Exorcist?)
-A sort of renegade engineer (kind of like a techmarine that can build stuff like turrets, mine fields, or better cover)
-Dark Eldar assassin

Those are actually really cool, I can build off of some of that stuff and work with it.

I have an idea for an exiled imperium.....thing. Lol well it's more like a grizzled veteran who got stranded and left back on a hive world and worked his way up the chain as a big dog. Yeah let's make him a stranded commissar

Rogue Commissar: ws 4 BS 4 str 3 t 4 I 3 w 3 a 3 AS 4+ ld 10

He has a 5+ invulnerable save and he has a 5+ feel no pain for being so heavily cybernetic with bionics. He has night vision for his bionic eye. He also has the zealot special rule. He has the scout special rule. Any unit within 12"of this model has +1 to their leadership to maximum of 10.
His equipment is: refractor field, bionics, plasma pistol, power fist.

I just don't have an idea for his points. What's the base commissar in the ig codex worth?

commissar is 35, plus extra gear and all, 60 points (25 points for weapons) and then an extra 10 for ability is 70 points BUT that is the same price as a lord commissar.

If he's been stranded, maybe give him a special rule that if he's fighting an Imperium army, he gets Hatred (Imperium)?

Swastakowey wrote:commissar is 35, plus extra gear and all, 60 points (25 points for weapons) and then an extra 10 for ability is 70 points BUT that is the same price as a lord commissar.

Ok thank you for the points numbers, yeah I made an improved version of the basic commissar, I would personally say with what he has he would be 85-95 points. He is different then a lord commissar and I wouldn't say as skill full as one but my version is a special character commissar. We need to come up with a name!

SkavenLord wrote:If he's been stranded, maybe give him a special rule that if he's fighting an Imperium army, he gets Hatred (Imperium)?

Totally, that's a smart and awesome idea.


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Id say just imperial guard only for hatred not all imperium. And further to solidify this if he is in the same army as imperial guard he is treated as desperate allies.

Awesome sounds great. Maybe give him S 4 for bionics too?

 Swastakowey wrote:
Awesome sounds great. Maybe give him S 4 for bionics too?

Well, while that is not a bad idea. I already gave him +1 toughness and 5+ feel no pain because of bionics. And I gave him a powerfist to represent a cybernetic arm.

We can't make him too powerful swasta man

Plus I have other HQ leaders in mind who will be better then him in close combat.

Sorry didn't see the feel no pain. well thats easy enough lol. whats the next one?

Dark Eldar Pirate Captain: ws 6 BS 4 s 3 t 3 I 6 w 3 A 4 as 4+ ld 9

He has a 4+ invulnerable. He gets combat drugs from dark eldar codex. He is fearless. He has hatred everything and counts as desperate allies with anything that is not a mercenary. He causes fear. He has fleet. Stealth. Parry and riposte special rules.

The parry and riposte special rules are as follows; parry- in a challenge this dark eldar pirate captain has +1 toughness to represent he is harder to wound (yeah even though parry is like a dodge and would be something to do with a to hit but there would be complications from other rules that always hit on 3+ no matter what) and riposte is you can choose to for go all of your attacks and your opponent strikes first and you suffer no unsaved wounds you make 1 auto hit and the wound is resolved with a +1 to your strength and with an AP of 2 and its instant death.

His equipment is assault grenades, a power cutlass, 4+armor, something that gives a 4+ invulnerable. Splinter pistol.

The power cutlass is a power sword with +2 str.

Need to figure out points still.

Yea seems awesome. Hmmm not too sure on points probably between 95-115?

Ok, I think 115 is good and he will have the power from pain dark eldar special rule also.

Ok cool. Maybe an old AI unit character thats thousands of years old with unkowen origins?

Well... wait. Is the Dark Eldar pirate captain finished already? Wow, you guys work fast!

If we're finished working on that one, you could try a rogue machine spirit (man, there are a lot of rogue Imperium stuff in this codex).

true but imperium is the easiest. A rogue machine spirit... very interesting? Care to expand on that one id love to hear it. We also have eldar pirates too

I have something I an working on now that combines both your ideas.

Awesome fire away! (im not good at special characters im more of a unit guy) but im brewing something up for later.

Cyber Techno:

He well IT is the old age of lost technology that developed on it's own AI from the Mechanicus from Mars.

WS 3 BS 6 S 4 T 5 I 2 W 4 A 1 LD 10 AS 2+

He is fearless, has eternal warrior, he has a 4+ feel no pain. Touch of the Machine spirit, when it is embarked or in base to base contact with a friendly vehicle it gains the power of the machine spirit special rule as in codex space marines, further more if it assaults an enemy vehicle and hits his attacks roll on the armor penetration table with a -1 to the result.

He has precision of the machine spirit special rule, when shooting at a vehicle he ignores jink saves and further more he adds +1 to to armor penetration chart in addition to his weapon profile. For shooting only.

He has no invulnerable save just to clarify that was on purpose. His equipment is defensive grenades and a c
Ancient relic conversion cannon with the following profile:

Heavy 2 range 36" str 6 AP 1 and against vehicles only it has the rending special rule. It also has the over load special rule, if both to hit rolls are a result of 1 including after re rolls, the weapon over loads and it centers a large blast over this model and everything underneath it suffers a str 10 AP 1 instant death hit, if a look out sir is attempted against this and fails both models die (excluding if you make your invulnerable save) even if that model that look out sir was not under the blast.


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Sorry forgot points he would be around the 210 mark.

Yikes that thing looks powerful! This looks like it's going to cost a lot. 250 points maybe?

Ok maybe I over priced, more like 170 points?


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SkavenLord wrote:
Yikes that thing looks powerful! This looks like it's going to cost a lot. 250 points maybe?

Yeah points I think are going to be hard to calculate for him, he is great I admit it. I was trying to keep it more true to what the lost age of technology might represent and this mercenary codex doesn't have any strong anti tank weapons against a armor 14 vehicle besides this guy and the flyers str 9 missiles.

I know that the adeptus mechanicus used to have amazing technology but it was lost.


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Hmm he might be worth around 210 like my original post maybe even between 185 and 200?

He is good I admit it but at 250 I don't think he is as good as a land raider.

Maybe we can give him a hacking psycic ability where he can hack vehicles within 12" or something. (replace something he has got? Maybe but anti tank is definately needed.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Maybe we can give him a hacking psycic ability where he can hack vehicles within 12" or something. (replace something he has got? Maybe but anti tank is definately needed.

That is actually an interesting idea. Kinda does make sense too. Well that was basically why I gave him that is why I gave him touch of the machine spirit.

He is anti tank and with his +3 on the armor penetration table he gets at worst vehicle can't move and only fire snap shots. +4 if its opened top.

You did read his profile right?

Ok revamping him slightly the weapon profile is now strength 7. He gets the slow and purposeful special rule.

I got to think some on that psychic power I am 50/50 on it.

I meant you are right we needed the anti tank lol, hmmm when you have decided on the psycik power we can work out the points but im think 195 with the psycic power.

Yeah I was going over it and it doesn't make sense for him to have access to the warp he is artificial intelligence that evolved and took control of itself besides if a vehicle is within 12"just charge it you get two chances to hit and you don't have to roll to wound or glance or pen each hit counts as a pen you just roll on the armor penetration table.

Without the psychic power and with theincreased $str of gun with these new rules I am adding and changing. The gun is now assault 2 and he does not have slow and purposeful any more but he now has the option to over charge the gun for heavy 4 but it over loads on a single roll of 1 (you still can stop it if you re roll and don't a 1 again.) Your following shooting phase though roll 1d6 on a 4+ you can fire the gun again if not the gun needs time to cool down. This only happens when you fire in heavy 4 mode.

I would give him a final points of 195.

Sounds good to me! Oh also, by overload do you mean something like the gets hot rule or should we try a sort of template-ish thing? If we wanted to add a psychic power to the guy, we could give him a special rule that works like a psyker power that allows him to do this.

SkavenLord wrote:
Sounds good to me! Oh also, by overload do you mean something like the gets hot rule or should we try a sort of template-ish thing? If we wanted to add a psychic power to the guy, we could give him a special rule that works like a psyker power that allows him to do this.

Yeah its something like a gets hot but the old technology was better to avoid gets hot so I had to come up with something else. Firing the gun normally you need double ones for it to overload and he is BS 6 so if you f do get double ones you can re roll them, so the percentage of getting double ones is slim, when you over charge the gun its different because you are pushing it to the max.

As for the idea of a special rule that is like a psychic power that's what I did with the Touch of the Machine Spirit rule. This thing is so in tune that coming into contact with a friendly vehicle grants it Power of the Machine Spirit and assaulting an enemy vehicle as long as he hits its an auto pen. I was trying to represent it as an electrical static current or that it knew the right places to touch a vehicle.

I mean if you guyscan think of something else that fits and makes sense go for it. Just remember he is artificial intelligence.

I just thought of something as I was writing, how about he has the Machine Apathy special rule that is 12"range and you need to pass a leadership test to use it but it fails on double 1s also (since its not psychic and no perils occur it just fails on double 1s) its once per turn and you can target a enemy vehicle and you still need to roll to hit (this takes place in the beginning of movement phase like blessing and malediction powers) the target does not receive a cover save. If successful the target vehicle automatically suffers a crew stunned result with no hull points taken off.
If you target a friendly vehicle within 12" its same leadership test and to hit roll but you cause the vehicle to operate normally if it suffered crew stunned or crew shaken.

And now his points get bumped up to 220 points.


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Yeah the overload is a large blast str 10 AP 1 centered on the model. I mentioned it in an earlier post.

Don't forget that loxatl are described as very resistant to las weapons. perhaps that can be reflected.

How about the lacrymole? the renegades callidus...

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Don't forget that loxatl are described as very resistant to las weapons. perhaps that can be reflected.

How about the lacrymole? the renegades callidus...

I wanted to give them a bonus vs lasguns but something made me not do so.

Feel free to elaborate on your idea though. The robot is near completion but the more the merrier.


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Dat Guy wrote:

SkavenLord wrote:
Sounds good to me! Oh also, by overload do you mean something like the gets hot rule or should we try a sort of template-ish thing? If we wanted to add a psychic power to the guy, we could give him a special rule that works like a psyker power that allows him to do this.

Yeah its something like a gets hot but the old technology was better to avoid gets hot so I had to come up with something else. Firing the gun normally you need double ones for it to overload and he is BS 6 so if you f do get double ones you can re roll them, so the percentage of getting double ones is slim, when you over charge the gun its different because you are pushing it to the max.

As for the idea of a special rule that is like a psychic power that's what I did with the Touch of the Machine Spirit rule. This thing is so in tune that coming into contact with a friendly vehicle grants it Power of the Machine Spirit and assaulting an enemy vehicle as long as he hits its an auto pen. I was trying to represent it as an electrical static current or that it knew the right places to touch a vehicle.

I mean if you guyscan think of something else that fits and makes sense go for it. Just remember he is artificial intelligence.

I just thought of something as I was writing, how about he has the Machine Apathy special rule that is 12"range and you need to pass a leadership test to use it but it fails on double 1s also (since its not psychic and no perils occur it just fails on double 1s) its once per turn and you can target a enemy vehicle and you still need to roll to hit (this takes place in the beginning of movement phase like blessing and malediction powers) the target does not receive a cover save. If successful the target vehicle automatically suffers a crew stunned result with no hull points taken off.
If you target a friendly vehicle within 12" its same leadership test and to hit roll but you cause the vehicle to operate normally if it suffered crew stunned or crew shaken.

And now his points get bumped up to 220 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah the overload is a large blast str 10 AP 1 centered on the model. I mentioned it in an earlier post.

Ok so this guy has a fair few rules. Do you mind doind a summery post with them all in one post?

Cyber Techno:

He well IT is the old age of lost technology that developed on it's own AI from the Mechanicus from Mars.

WS 3 BS 6 S 4 T 5 I 2 W 4 A 1 LD 10 AS 2+

He is fearless, has eternal warrior, he has a 4+ feel no pain. Touch of the Machine spirit, when it is embarked or in base to base contact with a friendly vehicle it gains the power of the machine spirit special rule as in codex space marines, further more if it assaults an enemy vehicle and hits his attacks roll on the armor penetration table with a -1 to the result.

He has precision of the machine spirit special rule, when shooting at a vehicle he ignores jink saves and further more he adds +1 to to armor penetration chart in addition to his weapon profile. For shooting only.

He has no invulnerable save just to clarify that was on purpose. His equipment is defensive grenades and a
Ancient relic conversion cannon with the following profile:

Assault 2 range 36" str 7 AP 1 and against vehicles only it has the rending special rule. It also has the over load special rule, if both to hit rolls are a result of 1 including after re rolls, the weapon over loads and it centers a large blast over this model and everything underneath it suffers a str 10 AP 1 instant death hit, if a look out sir is attempted against this and fails both models die (excluding if you make your invulnerable save) even if that model that look out sir was not under the blast. This weapon has the option to over charge the gun for heavy 4 (it now over loads on a single 1 but re rolls can negate it still and if it does over load you still get your other shots) Your following shooting phase though roll 1d6 on a 4+ you can fire the gun again if not the gun needs time to cool down. This only happens when you fire in heavy 4 mode.

As for the idea of a special rule that is like a psychic power that's what I did with the Touch of the Machine Spirit rule. This thing is so in tune that coming into contact with a friendly vehicle grants it Power of the Machine Spirit and assaulting an enemy vehicle as long as he hits its an auto pen. I was trying to represent it as an electrical static current or that it knew the right places to touch a vehicle.

He has the Machine Apathy special rule that is 12"range and you need to pass a leadership test to use it but it fails on double 1s also (since its not psychic and no perils occur it just fails on double 1s) its once per turn and you can target a enemy vehicle and you still need to roll to hit (this takes place in the beginning of movement phase like blessing and malediction powers) the target does not receive a cover save. If successful the target vehicle automatically suffers a crew stunned result with no hull points taken off.
If you target a friendly vehicle within 12" its same leadership test and to hit roll but you cause the vehicle to operate normally if it suffered crew stunned or crew shaken.

I give him a points cost of 220 points.

hmmm i think he passes. Ill give him a yes. He dies kinda easy when you think about it. So i think he fills a big gap in our vehicle lacking list.

How about we do a generic mercinary captain that can have access to a lot of gear and equipment for a tonne of customization?

Same here! Looks good to me!

 Swastakowey wrote:
hmmm i think he passes. Ill give him a yes. He dies kinda easy when you think about it. So i think he fills a big gap in our vehicle lacking list.

How about we do a generic mercinary captain that can have access to a lot of gear and equipment for a tonne of customization?

Well if we're going for customization, why don't we make it's race customizable as well?

Something like this:
The first upgrade is an upgrade it must receive that explains what race it is. It gains the statline of your average commander from said race.

SkavenLord wrote:
Same here! Looks good to me!

 Swastakowey wrote:
hmmm i think he passes. Ill give him a yes. He dies kinda easy when you think about it. So i think he fills a big gap in our vehicle lacking list.

How about we do a generic mercinary captain that can have access to a lot of gear and equipment for a tonne of customization?

Well if we're going for customization, why don't we make it's race customizable as well?

Something like this:
The first upgrade is an upgrade it must receive that explains what race it is. It gains the statline of your average commander from said race.

Awesome!

I reckon we go (feel free to add)

Human
Ork
Eldar

From there they czn choose loadouts and stuff? If so this can be interesting as a generic character.

Alright but maybe limit the equipment it can take. Otherwise it's more or less choosing whether it's a warboss, farseer, or commissar but as a mercenary.

I was gonna make the only difference between them was the statline, they all could take from the same gear (a generic gear list) to tailor them to a role they choose.

Ah, okay. Alright, any ideas?

im thinking we get the normal stuff out of the way, Power weapons, plasma weapons, auto guns, las guns, carapace armour, power armour, grenades.

Then go into a couple of cool gadgets like bionics, special weapons or maybe give some leadership trait options too. Not sure how much alien tech if any should be in there?

 Swastakowey wrote:
hmmm i think he passes. Ill give him a yes. He dies kinda easy when you think about it. So i think he fills a big gap in our vehicle lacking list.

How about we do a generic mercinary captain that can have access to a lot of gear and equipment for a tonne of customization?

:O !?!? Dies kinda easy? He has a 2+ armor and a 4+ feel no pain with eternal warrior and toughness 5 with 4 wounds and he is an independent character, this guy is pretty durable for an HQ more so then your average since feel no pain in most instances is like a second save.

I haven't read the whole thread yet. But what about some generic mercenary rules? Not every unit would have them, but the majority would.
E.g
Eyes on the prize:
The mercenaries are in it for the money, they gain preferred enemy against any unit currently "holding" a mission objective. A unit with this rule cant use sweeping advance against a defeated enemy, if the mercenary unit is currently holding an objective. (its better to let them run, than risk loosing the prize)
(bonus?)Furthermore, if a unit with this rule wishes to move away from a currently held objective, they would need to make a successful leadership test. (They wont trust the other mercenaries with "their" precious prize)

I aint gettin paid enough for this!:
The mercenaries are fighting for gold/teef/thrones/fish, and you cant spend that when you are dead. Whenever a unit with this rule, fails a morale test and fall back, they will only regroup on a double 1, as if they were below half strength. (the HQ characters never have this rule, and would likely get a rule where the fleeing mercenaries could use their leadership when within xx").

I like the idea of building the mercenary captain. I propose 70-80% of the wargear should be available for all the races (ork, human and eldar). With the last 20-30% consisting of race specific items like: Masta krafted kustom flintlokk blastabuss (ork Mercenary captain only) xx pts and Metrosexual evening-gown of bedazzlement and prescience (eldar mercenary captain only) xx pts. The unscrupulous acquisitive employees handbook of dirty tricks vol 14 (human mercenary captain only) xx pts etc.

I suppose the ork would be the brute hard hitting tool. the human a versatile force multiplier and the eldar, something fast, agile and cleverish.

Great ideas! I think we also had a special rule about whether the mercenaries showed up at all but these look great!

As for the wargear, the only issue is... well... Is there any wargear all three of them would use?

hmm well, grenades/melta bombs, 4+ armour (eavy, carapace and eeh eldar something?) powerfist, power weapon, 5+ inv save (cybork, refractor field, eldar shimmer something) +1 attack (attack squig, murder servo skull, hyper adrenaline combat drug) +1 ld (iron gob, fancy contract with extra cash after battle) master crafted melee or ranged. hatred/preferred enemy against specific unit (big gold/teef bounty on said unit, farseer omen of doom against said unit).

Well, maybe have a rule like:
Untrustworthy scum: Reroll all reserve rolls of 6, as the unit with this rule might be delayed because of a renegotiation of payment.

New unit
Troops
kroot head hunters
stats as regular kroot, including special rules and krootox, kroot hounds options.
extra rules:
Eyes on the prize
I aint gettin paid enough for this!
Untrustworthy scum

May upgrade kroot rifle to include a poisoned +4 blade (counts as being equipped with 2 CCWs) for x pts
cant buy kroot shaper.

I love the eyes on the prize special rule, it makes sense and is fluffy and awesome.

The I ain't getting paid enough for this is cool and makes sense but the average unit made for this army is between 3-5 models. Which does not make it to hard but their leader ship is already low.

You can make it where if they have to take a leader ship check if no friendly model or unit within 6" or 12"even since squad sizes are small you need to pass on double ones or in the case for regrouping they roll on the lowest leader ship in the squad so for that purpose it makes squad leaders lose control.

The kroot is a unit i will add for sure! ill just use the codex and add mercenary wide rules to the unit. (we have one where they might not arrive to the battle and now your ones to add )

Also
"I like the idea of building the mercenary captain. I propose 70-80% of the wargear should be available for all the races (ork, human and eldar). With the last 20-30% consisting of race specific items like: Masta krafted kustom flintlokk blastabuss (ork Mercenary captain only) xx pts and Metrosexual evening-gown of bedazzlement and prescience (eldar mercenary captain only) xx pts. The unscrupulous acquisitive employees handbook of dirty tricks vol 14 (human mercenary captain only) xx pts etc.

I suppose the ork would be the brute hard hitting tool. the human a versatile force multiplier and the eldar, something fast, agile and cleverish. "

Thats exactly what im after captain wise. I was thinking each one has a unique leadership bonus and or ability to make them specialized a bit.

Sorry just have been really busy. I will be continuing to be busy for awhile so my participation will drop.

Yeah I was going to do a generic commander but wanted to get the fun special characters out of the way. Since giving them unique combinations would make them more useful.

As for generic commanders you should give depending on the race certain conditions and bonuses, like an ork commander would have difficulty with human or other non-ork races as his peons. Like that leadership rule the other guy made up about rolling double 1s for Morale, but only if the unit is not the same race as the leader?

Swastakowey you can give the special characters names.

Once i make the final compy ill add all the names and stuff and fill in the minor gaps that there may be. How about if the ork for example is with humans then any double rolled counts as a failure for leadership tests?

We could maybe make the captain's race represent what "race" the merc army represents on the allies chart. Doesn't the allies chart have bonuses and penalties too?

Yes it does, we have additional races though that the brb doesn't have in that chart. And the leaders shouldn't be as good as other codex versions. Also there should be certain penalties, maybe one major one or two minor ones.

How about this, if it's a stand alone army, ignore the penalties. If it's an addition weaken the captain (maybe by statline or throw away a special rule or two.

Well to my understanding the mercenary rules was only 2 troops, then on top of that you can choose between 1 elite or fast or heavy. I didn't think you could choose an HQ using them that way, I thought the HQ was for if you are running them as their own codex.

Ah. My mistake. Any ideas for penalties?

ok penalties for human is cowardice and greed:

May Flee from combat leaving his troops behind at the end of the combat phase. If he does so he must flee as per normal and even leaves a challenge. From then on he no longer counts as an independent character. All units within 12" must take a rout test even if fearless as they are confused by the screaming fleeing Captain.

Ork Penalty can be Confuzzed:

The ork captain cannot relate to his troops very well and does not understand how they think and feel. Unless a Unit has the Ork buddy special rule (will add to some units) all units friendly within 12" must take a stupidity test. On a roll of 1 those units may not move or assault as they completely disagree with the Ork captains logic. But if the unit has the ork buddy special rule any unit within 12" has the furious charge special rule.

Eldar Penalty "he is a panzy"

The soldiers dislike the lack of grunt and soldier attitude of their eldar captain. To show him who is boss anyone within 12" has the rage and fleet special rule, However everyone not in 12", knowing not fearing repercussions from their leader must take a stupidity test as above.




Just drafts but i thought why not give each "penalty" a bonus too so its not a bad nor good thing. Feel free to throw out ideas.

That is actually all really good and makes sense but what is the greed part for human? I don't see a benefit, its still all really cool.

ok i agree with the greed thing he has rehearsed his escape many times (after all its how he became captain) and gains the shrouded special rule.

So he can escape combat and challenges once but after that cannot join a unit. But he gets a pretty decent cover save.

Its not bad and I'm not trying to argue but I don't see the human being picked by anyone unless its purely fluff reasons.

ahhh thats why i was gonna give him a motivation skill, like you can choose 1 of 3 motivations (for a price) and that will have a one use buff. And that will make up for him being a weaker HQ

That makes sense and I can see a human leader having that.