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Post by: FinnSeer
I have noticed that there is a trend forming in the community where plenty of people buy their figures pre-painted or commission the painting for someone else.
Personally I don't understand this at all.
I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.
Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks. Sometimes I might sat on my work desk for a long time just trying to find out what the next miniature is going to look and what am I trying to tell with that particular miniature. After these are clear the task of actual conversion work will begin and the feeling can't be described with anything else than having a flow moment where everything is perfectly clear and you intuitively know what to do next like as someone would be guiding your hands.
Even at this stage the miniature starts having a personality. His or hers tilt of the head and position of the legs shows confidence or fear, the way of how the gun is kept shows the amount of training and battles fought before.
Painting adds even more life to the miniature. Is he a strict follower of rules and keeps his gear at prime condition or does he let things that do not affect the performance get dirty.
If I let someone do that instead of myself, I would lose a lot of the fun and what the hobby means for me.
I am not saying that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy the hobby and instead I would like to understand what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?
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Post by: conker249
Some people don't have time to paint, but apreciate painted models. Some lack the skills of painting effectivly and find the hobby more appealing with playing painted armies that look good, instead of an army painted horribly that they did( in their opinion) why paint your car yourself with a rattle can and no experience when you can pay someone with time and equipment with experience to do a great job.
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Post by: Swastakowey
I dont have the time to paint, i have the money to get all the stuff i need but not the time to paint it all. So commission is the only way ill get a fully painted army. I also hate painting my models. I love assembling and collecting and playing but painting is just a chore for me.
So i have resorted to getting my armies painted and having to pay for it. Its not cheap but at least its better than having unfinished armies.
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Post by: rayphoton
Just cause you can and want to paint doesn't mean everyone can and wants to paint. some people just want to make a list and play the game
Personally...I don't play the game but I sure do own alot of miniatures for it and spend a lot of time painting. Everyone takes something different from this hobby.
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Post by: Skabfang
I think you answered your own question mate. I'll expand by saying, can you use an automotive spray gun and have a spray booth to bake it? If you crashed your car would you paint it yourself? Or would you pay a panel beater to paint it? The answer for many to most people is that they don't have the skill, and all they want is a nicely painted army on the tabletop. Myself, I am in the "paint it yourself" category, however I don't care if someone gets someone else to paint their little war dollies because it's not my business. I prefer to play against painted armies for the immersion factor, but it's not that important  Different perspectives
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Post by: Breotan
Some people are just crappy painters and feel bad about how their models look when they do them themselves. For those with great paying jobs, it can be really nice to have someone else paint your Skaven horde while you enjoy the game.
I know people who've teamed up because one doesn't like to build and the other doesn't like to paint. Both love to play the game and this teamwork approach makes both of them happy.
Personally, my painting is suffering because I neglect it. But I struggle through it all because I want the overall satisfaction of having done it all on my own, but I'm not going to disparage anyone who wants to do it differently.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I reject the entire premise of the OP's question.
Why does there need to be reasoning behind it?
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Post by: Kelly502
I think most people just don't have the time but they have the money, perhaps they can paint but the amount of time they could be playing is cut short by everything else they do, and painting their armies would cut even further from the game time.
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Post by: plastictrees
 H.B.M.C. wrote:I reject the entire premise of the OP's question.
Why does there need to be reasoning behind it?
Because he's curious?
Do we need to submit thread topics for peer review prior to starting them now?
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Post by: Kojiro
I barely have time to play, let alone paint. What I do have is disposable income and an excellent painter friend who charges very reasonably. This is actually a relatively recent development as for the last 20 years I've done all my own painting.
But now.. I'm just too busy. I have too many things I have to do to spend that much time on something I only want to do.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with buying and using pre-painted models and armies, provided that you're honest about and never pass it off as your own work.
Some people may not have the time, motivation and skill to paint entire armies to a decent standard. Surely its better to have a painted army, bought 2nd hand or painted on commission, than an army of half painted, base coated and bare models? (which happens to describe my own armies).
Yes, you don't develop the same attachment to your miniatures and sense of personal achievement in painting them. But for some people, that personal attachment might isntead come from actually using the models, when a particular model or unit (e.g. a Captain, or a Vanguard Veteran Unit) does something cool like kill a Carnifex, or destroy down an Elite unit.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
Speaking as one of the people that paints the miniatures that someone else does not want to paint/does not have the time to paint/does not have the skill to paint [Circle appropriate] - I have no complaint about folks that decide that having a painted army is worth spending money on. 
The Auld Grump
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Post by: curran12
And hey, I have nerve damage in my dominant arm that prevents me from holding a brush steady. Guess I don't get to have a painted army anymore, eh?
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Post by: Boblogik
My wife had her's commissioned because the she cannot paint these figures at all (too fiddly in her words and gives her a headache). I offered to paint hers for her but seeing as how long it would take to get them painted, she opted to outsource the work. We have a friend who does commission work for minis and painted her entire malifaux collection. She's super happy with the results and now has a fully painted collection when she goes and plays with friends or at the local shop. Personally, I like having my stuff painted by myself but I can see the other side easily enough.
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Post by: insaniak
FinnSeer wrote:I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself.
That's just it... a lot of players aren't looking for a 'connection; with their figures. They just want to play the game... and since some venues insist on painted miniatures, if you're not interested in doing that yourself, you need to find someone else to do it.
Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks.
That's fantastic, and I hope you get much enjoyment out of your hobby for years to come.
But that's your hobby. For many, their hobby is gaming. Not painting or converting.
You don't need to paint the pieces in order to enjoy a game of Monopoly. For many players, miniature games are no different. The pieces are just prettier. Sometimes.
... what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?
A painted army.
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Post by: kb305
because of the amount of time.
because of the product knowledge&experimentation you need to do a good job
because of the hundreds of dollars worth of paint you need (you can get by using a few colors but a large range is much much better)
because of hundreds to even thousands of dollars worth of equipment you need to do the best job possible (expensive brushes, air compressor, respirator, spray booth, air brush, tools etc)
because of the YEARS it takes to develop painting skills.
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Post by: poda_t
Some people, a. Can't paint, b. don't have the time to paint, c. Hate painting, d. Want to play an army right away and need help finishing it, e. don't have the tools or space to do it, f. It's the way that they and their significant other enjoy the hobby together, g. They might like someone's work, and feel like supporting the community by paying the commission painter, h. They can't paint to the same standard and want to use the painting quality as a bartering chip when trading the army with someone else.
Just because other people do not fit into your idea of how this hobby is enjoyed, does not make them broken, misguided mentally Ill, or otherwise non-enthusiasts. I hate painting and it's a chore, and have given up on trying to maintain a high quality some time ago. Converting and building on the other hand I really enjoy. I have more terrain than I know what to do with.... Last but not least there's also gaming. If I can find a shortcut to gaming by being able to afford having someone paint my army: done. Sitting in a room by myself painting for hours on end every day is not my idea of fun.
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Post by: Boblogik
 poda_t wrote: I have more terrain than I know what to do with....
I know what you can do with it, donate it to the Bob-needs-terrain-fund! You'd be helping a good cause!
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Post by: mattyrm
I paint all of my models, I enjoy painting, but I fething love seeing models that are painted superbly.
Who doesnt?
If some bloke offered to give you his immaculately painted army, with totally awesome banners and freehand designs for nothing, surely you would love to have it right? You can still paint your own stuff, you can just own a mint looking army as well.
Which means, rather not not understanding people that don't like to paint, I don't really understand your point.
Well painted armies look fantastic, and while it may not be quite as satisfying if you didn't paint it yourself (I agree, this is the main appeal, and I love seeing a model of mine get complimented on the table) its still a great model with a great paintjob, surely any hobbyist can see the appeal of such a thing?
A well painted model is a thing of beauty, so who cares who painted it?
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Post by: porkuslime
as I got old and decrepit..
I cannot hold a brush steady at all.. fingers and hands shake to a bad degree. I can paint basic troops or undead or terrain alright, but fancy schmancy HQ or detailed small stuff is just not going to happen.
I have a decent job, and have been able to trade models for painting pretty successfully..
BUT.. I do it by necessity (perceived of course).. since I don't want the grey tide..
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Post by: carlos13th
Some people just want to play. They may not enjoy the painting or have the time for it. Or they may prefer to spend their time playing rather than painting.
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Post by: Bullockist
Anything that stops the grey tide is ok by me, I can totally understand people not wanting to paint getting someone else to paint it is better than all primed in my opinion.
JUST.DON'T.ENTER.IT.IN.PAINTING.COMPS >.<
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Post by: FinnSeer
I am sorry if my post came out with an arrogant tone, it sincerely was not my meaning. And I did not mean that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy this hobby as I stated in the last phrase.
Amount of replies and some with a defensive tone may mean, that there are some stigma associated to not painting your own miniatures.
And as a general the hobby community does not accept discrimination of players at all so maybe there are more to discuss. I have witnessed myself a situation where one hobbyist at tournament started rough talk about his opponent's miniatures that were bought pre painted from ebay. Of course the rumbling player was penalized by me for this and given a warning with a note that next one will lead to a disqualification. It would have lead to disq at once but the insulted opponent showed great attitude and asked for a warning instead if he would receive an apologizy.
On that occasion I am quite sure that he would have used anything else as a way to trying to insult the opponent as he lost his game and using a pre-painted army was just the best he could come around with.
This and the talks about people using pre painted armies going on IRL lead me to start this topic.
I sincerely try to get an active discussion going on about this and I don't mean to insult or aggravate anyone on this topic (also not on any other topic too )
I can only talk about my experiences with the hobby and although I say them out I don't mean or expect anyone taking them as the only guideline for how to enjoy this hobby.
I am not a master painter in any terms and I started this hobby again after over ten years break just about a year ago.
During this restart of a Hobby I faced the fact that I have more money to spend on this hobby than when I was teen but now It is harder to find time to be spent with the miniatures. I have a year old daughter and I work 40 hours a week.
I still regurarly manage to get one full squad of marines(or similar) or one vehicle painted to better than normal tabletop standards during weekdays and another set during weekend although at weekends I rather do HQ:s or something else requiring more attention and converting.
I attend to Tale of Gamers campaigns where you play one game a month starting with 500pts and then increasing by each turn of the campaign to a 2000pts. As I often start new armies, these are best way for me to got that army finished too, as it gives you a reason to paint that 500pts per month and you don't have to have a 1850 or 2000pts army at hand in the beginning unlike in regular tournaments.
Painting army to a normal tabletop level don't have to hard as in fact this is all about techniques instead of a precise perfection or artistic insight and with a good tutorial you can start getting good results on the go. Also having everything at hand and doing bigger batches at few different occassions will mean timesavings.
These fellas for example were painted to this stage within 5 minutes per miniature.
And getting to this point took a minute more per miniature.
So after a 20 minutes of gluing, 10 minutes of priming and 60 minutes of painting their details, weapons and helmets were all that was left to paint. Depending on the colors to be used in those the time to be used will vary from 30 minutes to 60 minutes per squad as they require more attention even though they are smaller.
I did gluing and priming on Monday and then 30 minutes of painting from Tuesday to Friday each day.
I do my painting (except priming or airbrushing) at our second dining table in our kitchen and I have all tools and brushes in a toolbox and paints are in a separate box that are mostly kept near the drawer where I have my WiP stuff and bitzbox along with unused miniatures. It takes something like two minutes to start painting and other two minutes to clean up and stop painting.
If painting miniatures to a tabletop levels seem to take forever there must be some flaw with the used techniques or lack of planning.
Also you dont have to have the whole paint range to paint your army. Five generic colors and two washes are what you probably will need all the time with nearly every miniature you are going to paint and then you add up more colors to your box as you go as most miniatures need two to four colors as an extra and after you have done some of different miniatures you start to have one or two of those at your hand.
Some armies, like Ultramarines might as well be painted with only nine colors and two washes total and you can drop two of the colors needed if you want to mix your own different shades of blue. Three to four different brushes are needed for that paintjob.
So after a 40$ worth of base investment you need to invest 6$ to 12$ dollars per different unit you buy. That in most cases equals 1/10th of the price of the unit you bought in case you buy two boxes 30$ each.
Things said about the time and paints(=money) needed is not written to justify anything or blame anyone for using pre painted models. I wrote them because I wanted to clarify what the real costs and amount of time needed actually is so that won't scare people away from painting
Actually the only problem I can think of with having someone else to paint your miniatures is a tournament where painting points are added on top of the points you receive in games to determine the winner. It will just prevent people from entering to that tournament if they use miniatures painted by someone else.
So although I disagree on some reasons why not to paint your own I still don't have anything against it and I can admire a fine miniature no matter if it was painted by it's owner or not. Just as in the case of traditional art where owner very likely have not done the piece of art hanging on the wall.
Same applies to cars also. I like to tune my own instead of just leaving them to a custom shop and at the moment only road safety related things that require some kind of license are not done by myself.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
And as a general the hobby community does not accept discrimination of players at all so maybe there are more to discuss.
There was a topic a while back, where if you had unpainted mini's the opposing players got bonuses against them.
People who liked painting cheered at it, and some would've preferred it go farther and ban players who use unpainted mini's.
So I wouldn't say that it does not accept discrimination..Unless you have unpainted mini's.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Like many wargamers I sometimes have more money than sense or time, and I have a tendency to buy figures and models for projects I don’t get around to completing.
There are various ways to deal with this situation.
Pile stuff in boxes in the attic until you can get around to it.
Challenge yourself with a time limit to finish an army.
Sell or give them away.
Pay someone else to paint them, or buy already painted armies (which can be cheap.)
Play with unpainted units.
I have used all these methods except for no.5, because I dislike playing with unpainted units.
As for discrimination against unpainted armies, of course it happens. Lots of players only want to play with painted armies. It is the same as Napoleonics players who don’t want to play SF space battles. No point complaining about them either.
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Post by: Osbad
One element I can identify with in the OP question is that many of us have been painting and collecting models for various games for years. And while we might still enjoy painting and assembling, it just doesn't provide the same return that it used to.
So I can totally identify with the phenomenon of wanting to start a new game/faction/army, but not wanting to slog through painting all the grunts. So in that case I might send off a chunk of the army - typically the more boring bits to assemble and paint (I am *really* tired of assembling fiddly plastic dudesmen now I'm in my late 40's!) and spending quality time assembling and painting up the more interesting models.
If finances allow, paying someone else to take the boring slog out of pulling a functional army together totally beats having to play with a 1/3rd painted army (or rather in my case because I refuse to play with unpainted models - sit with a 1/3rd painted army unused in boxes for years before I eBay it off in disgust) because ennui/distraction/family time has robbed me of the ability to complete the project.
Sure the gold standard is a 'Eavy Metal standard painted army completely customised by oneself, but that for many of us just is not a realistic proposition, or even worth the effort. So short of that there are many options. Subcontracting an element of the work (or even all of it) is one viable option depending on where you are on the fun/finance curve.
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Post by: monders
I have almost no time for hobby stuff. I’d rather play than paint, and I hate basing. But I also hate using unpainted stuff... so I find myself not having to time to paint and seldom playing (1 game of blood bowl this year, one game of 40k). Pretty frustrating.
So I’m looking at moving in to skirmish sized games, like X-Wing, Infinity and Dreadball. Having no gaming circle to speak of is another problem all together.
Bear with me, I’m approaching the point of the topic... I have some Arc Worlde KS stuff coming next year, and I think I’ll be employing the rather brilliant Tommie Seoul at Golem to paint up my stuff.
If I’m playing smaller games, I want the mini’s to look as amazing as possible. I can’t reach that level and would certainly struggle finding the time. The sculpts look amazing (and this goes for Infinity too) and there’s no way I could do them justice. I’ll paint the Dreadball stuff though. That needs to look rough and ready!
It makes sense to me, and you’re doing your bit for the local economy!
Cheers!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
@FinnSeer - "Some armies, like Ultramarines might as well be painted with only nine colors and two washes total and you can drop two of the colors needed if you want to mix your own different shades of blue. Three to four different brushes are needed for that paintjob."
ONLY nine colours plus two washes, possibly reduced to just SEVEN? Mixing your own shades AND four brushes?!
That's beyond table top quality, imo. No doubt your stuff looks great, but that list seems quite daunting to someone with little skill/time/confidence.
Prime, base coat, wash, details, highlight if you can be bothered - that's me!
I'll never win an award, but my stuff looks alright for throwing around (when it gets finished).
I like the Army Painter method, but I think their finished guys have a few extra levels added...
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Post by: Kirasu
Miniatures seem to be one of those things that people *need* a connection to for some reason as opposed to tons of other things people paint for us.
Personally I prefer to paint all my models so that they look the way I want them to, but if someone else can paint them exactly how I want them to be painted then yeah I'll pay them if I don't have time. My connection with the models would still be the same. Just like I don't like paint my own car, or I didn't paint my own house or really paint much of anything beyond my models..
Yet I still like my car and house.
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Post by: Herzlos
I barely have time to paint the stuff I want to paint, never mind the rank and file stuff, so I'd certainly be open to buying or commissioning painted rank and filers.
I'd love to paint it all myself, but I'm pretty slow, and 15mm horde infantry isn't that obvious or fun.
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Post by: wowsmash
I love painting. In fact I love painting so much that I allow people to pay me to paint for them. I use the money's to buy more model's. Plus I get the added benefit of painting models for armies that I don't own so more variety in model as well as paint scheme.
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Post by: dragqueeninspace
Why does it have to be either or? I paint my own but when the KOW KS stuff arrived (2k of undead) I didn't fancy it as my first project after returning to wargaming after 10+ years. I shifted it of to revenant minatures and got on with sometihng more managable, now I have two KOW arimes painted one of which is to a far higher standard than I or the OP would have done it to.
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Post by: Palindrome
Everyone has time to paint, and I mean that literally.
When people say they lack the time to paint what they actually mean is that they lack the motivation.
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Post by: Osbad
 Palindrome wrote:Everyone has time to paint, and I mean that literally.
When people say they lack the time to paint what they actually mean is that they lack the motivation.
No. It means they lack the time *to paint*. Sure we all have 24 hours every day. But by the time you have subtracted sleeping, eating, working, spending time with the significant other and/or the kids, there can be pretty little left to spend on a task as monumentally trivial and unimportant in the grand scheme of things as painting man-dollies.
This week due to kids sporting events and evening meetings for organizations I am involved with, I have had NO time (I'm typing this as I eat my sandwiches for lunch.) I have loads of motivation. I love painting character models. I haven't been able to find the time this week to do it though as I haven't had any free time before 10pm every single night this week (and the last 2 to be honest). By that time of night (given I get up on the dot of 7 every day, including Saturdays, although I do get a lie in til 8 on Sundays) I couldn't paint worth a doozy. All I'm fit for is flaking out in front of the tv.
Sure it is all priorities. But priorities =/= motivation. I *could* tell my kids I am not taking them to football because Daddy wants to paint toy soldiers. That would be a reordering of my priorities that would get my painting workload finished. But I can't see that happening, can you?
Having priorities means that for some people they don't get a lot of time to focus on activities that only benefit themselves because they choose to prioritize their spare time on activities that benefit others - their families, the community, whatever. Doesn't mean they don't "really want" that nicely painted army. But they sublimate those "wants" instead choosing to give time to projects and activities that meets other "needs".
So writing off people who choose not to devote their time to paint toy soldiers as being "unmotivated" may be true for some, but it is a gross generalization and largely unfair to many.
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Post by: carmachu
FinnSeer wrote:I have noticed that there is a trend forming in the community where plenty of people buy their figures pre-painted or commission the painting for someone else.
Personally I don't understand this at all.
I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.
Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks. Sometimes I might sat on my work desk for a long time just trying to find out what the next miniature is going to look and what am I trying to tell with that particular miniature. After these are clear the task of actual conversion work will begin and the feeling can't be described with anything else than having a flow moment where everything is perfectly clear and you intuitively know what to do next like as someone would be guiding your hands.
Even at this stage the miniature starts having a personality. His or hers tilt of the head and position of the legs shows confidence or fear, the way of how the gun is kept shows the amount of training and battles fought before.
Painting adds even more life to the miniature. Is he a strict follower of rules and keeps his gear at prime condition or does he let things that do not affect the performance get dirty.
If I let someone do that instead of myself, I would lose a lot of the fun and what the hobby means for me.
I am not saying that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy the hobby and instead I would like to understand what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?
No, your logic is flawed. Painting is fun for YOU. Its what the hobby means to YOU. Not everyone.
Everyone approaches the hobby for different reasons. YOU might think painting is part of the hobby, but others do not. For them it could be just building. Or playing. Or painting. Or all three. Or just two of the three. If you scroll back in time 23 years you might find that the "hobby' has very different reasons and logic then it does today. It is all based on when you started.
FURTHER, not everyone has time to paint. Real life gets in the way. Job, kids, wife, coach little league all take time. Having someone else paint them saves time. Further still, some of us don't give a donkey's behind about painting. Its neither fun nor important to us hobby wise.
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Post by: Palindrome
I just don't accept that. Everyone can spare an average of an hour a week to paint man dollies; some weeks less and some weeks more but simply saying that you don't have the time at all is simply not true unless you work at least 80 hours a week. If you are motivated you will find the time, if you aren''t you won't.
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Post by: Verses
Palindrome wrote:Everyone has time to paint, and I mean that literally.
When people say they lack the time to paint what they actually mean is that they lack the motivation.
So next time I have a couple months where I had no time to paint, game etc, do I then say that in actual fact I had the time, but wasn't motivated enough to pick those as options over sleep, food, work, looking after family etc?
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Post by: Saldiven
H.B.M.C. wrote:I reject the entire premise of the OP's question.
Why does there need to be reasoning behind it?
I'll restate the OP's post in a manner more people will understand:
"I don't understand how people can enjoy the hobby in different ways than I do."
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Post by: Mr Morden
FinnSeer wrote:I have noticed that there is a trend forming in the community where plenty of people buy their figures pre-painted or commission the painting for someone else.
Personally I don't understand this at all.
I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.
Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks. Sometimes I might sat on my work desk for a long time just trying to find out what the next miniature is going to look and what am I trying to tell with that particular miniature. After these are clear the task of actual conversion work will begin and the feeling can't be described with anything else than having a flow moment where everything is perfectly clear and you intuitively know what to do next like as someone would be guiding your hands.
Even at this stage the miniature starts having a personality. His or hers tilt of the head and position of the legs shows confidence or fear, the way of how the gun is kept shows the amount of training and battles fought before.
Painting adds even more life to the miniature. Is he a strict follower of rules and keeps his gear at prime condition or does he let things that do not affect the performance get dirty.
If I let someone do that instead of myself, I would lose a lot of the fun and what the hobby means for me.
I am not saying that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy the hobby and instead I would like to understand what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?
Its all very simple really
Reasons:
I like playing with nicely painted models.
I have plenty of disposable income and have little spare time, the time I have I want to play games, practice swordfighting, go to the cinema, chill with friends etc etc not sit there painting.
I donlt enjoy painting and am not very good at it - occassionally I have another go and remind myself why I don't.
I don't like buying expensive models and "ruining" them by my half assed attempts at painting. I do actually like making them and oconverting them but then usually ruin them by painting them - last few years stopped the last part of the process.
Its usually cheaper to buy well painted models on ebay than retail unpainted - well the last approx 150 purchases on ebay I made have been.
I am more than happy to give someone who had spent time and effort honing his skills a good reward for it by commissing him or her to paint my unpainted models - usually ones I buy to support the local store / or they are harder to get on ebay.
Everybody wins in my view - I get great looking models, people get paid and get more of what they want, people who play me like playing against nice looking models and not grey plastic.
Palindrome wrote:
I just don't accept that. Everyone can spare an average of an hour a week to paint man dollies; some weeks less and some weeks more but simply saying that you don't have the time at all is simply not true unless you work at least 80 hours a week. If you are motivated you will find the time, if you aren''t you won't.
Why should anyone feel forced to take part in every different part of the hobby if they don't want to - its a hobby not a job - you do it cos you like it - period. Implying that a conscious choice to do one thing or another is "wrong" in this context is to be honest incorect and can be annoying.............hence the negative replies.
It would be like me saying you are "wasting" game time by painting and not actually playing - its not true but same flawed argument.
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Post by: Saldiven
FinnSeer wrote:I am sorry if my post came out with an arrogant tone, it sincerely was not my meaning. And I did not mean that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy this hobby as I stated in the last phrase.
Amount of replies and some with a defensive tone may mean, that there are some stigma associated to not painting your own miniatures.
Absolutely not. There are just a lot of people out there that hate hobby elitists that try to tell other people how they should enjoy the tabletop wargaming hobby. This kind of thread comes up at least once or twice a year.
Please just accept the fact that other people enjoy different aspects of the hobby than you do. While you think it's bad for people to play miniatures painted by other people, others think your attitude is, frankly, ridiculous.
Personally, I absolutely HATE painting. I consider it a complete waste of my time and derive less than zero entertainment from it. I would rather do my taxes than paint miniatures.
Listen, I'm completely happy that you enjoy painting. But please do not try to project what you find enjoyable onto the rest of us. We're not interested.
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Post by: carlos13th
Palindrome wrote:
I just don't accept that. Everyone can spare an average of an hour a week to paint man dollies; some weeks less and some weeks more but simply saying that you don't have the time at all is simply not true unless you work at least 80 hours a week. If you are motivated you will find the time, if you aren''t you won't.
Other things may take priority. Also it may not be worth bothering for an hour a week for some people as they may be slow painters who get little done. An hour would be worthless for me by the time I unpack everything to paint.
Saldiven wrote:FinnSeer wrote:I am sorry if my post came out with an arrogant tone, it sincerely was not my meaning. And I did not mean that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy this hobby as I stated in the last phrase.
Amount of replies and some with a defensive tone may mean, that there are some stigma associated to not painting your own miniatures.
Absolutely not. There are just a lot of people out there that hate hobby elitists that try to tell other people how they should enjoy the tabletop wargaming hobby. This kind of thread comes up at least once or twice a year.
Please just accept the fact that other people enjoy different aspects of the hobby than you do. While you think it's bad for people to play miniatures painted by other people, others think your attitude is, frankly, ridiculous.
Personally, I absolutely HATE painting. I consider it a complete waste of my time and derive less than zero entertainment from it. I would rather do my taxes than paint miniatures.
Listen, I'm completely happy that you enjoy painting. But please do not try to project what you find enjoyable onto the rest of us. We're not interested.
Personally I enjoy painting. But I dont see how enjoying gaming but not painting the models is any different to enjoying painting but not enjoying gaming. Each person can enjoy their hobby the way they like.
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Post by: carmachu
FinnSeer wrote:
Amount of replies and some with a defensive tone may mean, that there are some stigma associated to not painting your own miniatures.
No stigma, just a tone of dealing with an ignorant person on the subject. The fact you think its a stigma shows it.
Painting is great for YOU. For others not so much. There are folks on this board and in this very thread that don't play, just build and paint. Should we start looking down at them for missing that part of the hobby?
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Post by: PredaKhaine
carmachu wrote:FinnSeer wrote:
Amount of replies and some with a defensive tone may mean, that there are some stigma associated to not painting your own miniatures.
No stigma, just a tone of dealing with an ignorant person on the subject. The fact you think its a stigma shows it.
Painting is great for YOU. For others not so much. There are folks on this board and in this very thread that don't play, just build and paint. Should we start looking down at them for missing that part of the hobby?
There is a limit though - personally, I'd object on principle and would refuse to play any game with someone that hadn't built their models. I'm not playing against cellophaned boxes... LOS would be a living nightmare.
I know I'm prejudiced 
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I've already faced worse than that.
I played against Tau and this is what he put out for his Stealth Suits.
Another time a Space Marine player hadn't built his Rhino. I asked how I was supposed to work out LoS from just a sprue and he showed me this scale drawing.
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Post by: Stranger83
It’s been said a few times but your point about “everyone can spare an hour a week to paint” is a little unfair. Yes I could spare an hour – but that’d be an hour less playing with my kids, or an hour less gaming, maybe a meal out with the misses or a trip stadium to watch the team get thrashed again, simply put yes I can free up an hour to paint – but what would you recommend I drop to fit that in?
Now I actually quite like painting, but it takes me ages – that you can paint an entire squad to tabletop standard in 10 minutes is great but don’t expect the same of all of us. It’s not a matter of “learning the skills” I’ve been painting for 20 years and it still takes me the better part of 3-4 hours to finish a squad to even a basic standard, even longer to a standard I would be reasonably happy with. Now maybe it’s that my technique is poor, but I’ve watched/read so many painting advise articles/videos that I know what I should be doing, it’s just getting my hands to be able to do it with speed that is the problem and short of a bionic replacement that just isn’t going to happen.
So yes, I have used a painting service, I enjoy painting my own models and even have been complemented on them before when I really take the time (we’re talking about 20+ hours per squad here) but I also play a lot of games, and constantly have a range of stuff being added to my collection – when I find that I’ve fallen too far behind I send a batch of the “I’ll never get around to painting this stuff” off to a painter, this tends to be the rank and file stuff that I just don’t have the interest of painting the same model 3-4 times nevermind 40 (in the case of some of my 40k WFB armies). Sure I probably could spend more time painting than I do now, which is around 2-3 hours a week, but then it’s eating into the other fun stuff I like to do and why would I chose to do something less fun if I didn’t have to?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Using a pre-painted or pro-painted army only affects the owner's hobby experience.
Using a non-painted army affects the opponent's experience.
If people don't want to paint models, and prefer to buy painted models instead, I think they don't need to make excuses why they didn't paint the figures themselves.
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Post by: Alfndrate
Palindrome wrote:Everyone has time to paint, and I mean that literally.
When people say they lack the time to paint what they actually mean is that they lack the motivation.
It really all depends on how you split your time up, I have 3 ways I break up my time: Work, sleep, entertainment. I am in "work" mode from 5:30 in the morning until 6:30 at night, I sleep from about 10:30 till 5:30 (when I wake up and shower etc...). When I get home, I dedicate about a half an hour to my evening meal and then I have 3.5 hours of entertainment time. During that time period I can split my time up in several ways. I can paint, I can sit on Dakka, I can watch sports, read a book, play video games. If I watch a sport I usually add painting in to that as it's a nice way to watch the game and to paint my models. But since I really only watch 1 hockey team and 1 football team, I watch sports maybe 3 times a week. The other times I'm doing other activities, on Fridays I game at my FLGS, and I tend to play video games. There have been times where I look at my pile of unassembled and unpainted models and go, "feth I have a lot to paint" and it becomes an extremely daunting task and yes that's lack of motivation, but 90% of the time I try to split my time evenly, one day I paint, one day I play video games. But if I had the cash to have someone paint my models for me, it'd be done in a heartbeat.
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Post by: Platuan4th
I can honestly say, I've never thought "This game would be more fun if the other army was painted". Do two painted armies facing each other look good? Yes, but as long as I have MY army painted(since I'm a "Play it Painted" type these days), I'm happy. I couldn't care less if the opponent has a painted army or not, I'm just happy to be playing.
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Post by: kronk
FinnSeer wrote:
I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.
1. Not everyone is in this hobby for the same reason or reasons as you.
2. Some people have significant medical issues that makes painting difficult, painful, or impossible.
3. What you think is fun and rewarding could be annoying and boring to someone else.
Don't impose your idea of fun on others. It takes different strokes to rule the world, yes it does. People are people so why should it be...you and I should get along so awfully. I hate myself for sniffing glue. Your mileage may vary. Don't wizz on the electric fence.
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Post by: carmachu
 PredaKhaine wrote:
There is a limit though - personally, I'd object on principle and would refuse to play any game with someone that hadn't built their models. I'm not playing against cellophaned boxes... LOS would be a living nightmare.
I know I'm prejudiced
You're right there is a limit. I would NEVER sit at a table and play an elitist like you or the OP or Palindrome. Its people like you that take the fun from the hobby.
Building models =/= playing the game. I've played people that have had armies that consist of beautiful golden demon level painted armies to armies of proxies and half built models.
Its the person at the other end of the table that makes it a good enjoyable game or not. Attitudes like yours(and others that I have seen in this and many many other threads like it) that ruin fun.
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Post by: PhantomViper
carmachu wrote: PredaKhaine wrote:
There is a limit though - personally, I'd object on principle and would refuse to play any game with someone that hadn't built their models. I'm not playing against cellophaned boxes... LOS would be a living nightmare.
I know I'm prejudiced
You're right there is a limit. I would NEVER sit at a table and play an elitist like you or the OP or Palindrome. Its people like you that take the fun from the hobby.
Building models =/= playing the game. I've played people that have had armies that consist of beautiful golden demon level painted armies to armies of proxies and half built models.
Its the person at the other end of the table that makes it a good enjoyable game or not. Attitudes like yours(and others that I have seen in this and many many other threads like it) that ruin fun.
Miniature wargaming is a social contract, if you don't care enough about that contract to even bother assembling your miniatures then I don't wan't to waste my limited free time playing you.
If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.
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Post by: PredaKhaine
carmachu wrote: PredaKhaine wrote: There is a limit though - personally, I'd object on principle and would refuse to play any game with someone that hadn't built their models. I'm not playing against cellophaned boxes... LOS would be a living nightmare. I know I'm prejudiced
You're right there is a limit. I would NEVER sit at a table and play an elitist like you or the OP or Palindrome. Its people like you that take the fun from the hobby. Building models =/= playing the game. I've played people that have had armies that consist of beautiful golden demon level painted armies to armies of proxies and half built models. Its the person at the other end of the table that makes it a good enjoyable game or not. Attitudes like yours(and others that I have seen in this and many many other threads like it) that ruin fun.
You're taking my post seriously?  I said I wouldn't play against boxes of mini's, still wrapped in the plastic cellophane - as in straight off the shelf...but now I'm an elitist? But yay, I get to be a fun ruiner! Posting in binary is fun - an on/off state where on = Fun Ruiner, off= would rather just play boxes of space marines against each other without assembling a single thing I love this logic 'you like to play assembled models=elitist' Thanks, you've just given me a genuine laugh
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Post by: carmachu
PhantomViper wrote:
Miniature wargaming is a social contract, if you don't care enough about that contract to even bother assembling your miniatures then I don't wan't to waste my limited free time playing you.
If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.
And again you demonstrate why I wouldn't play you. In my 24 years of playing wargames(longer if you count battletech and RPGs) I've discovered the simple rule- its about the people, ther person on the other side of the table that make the game great or suck. There are people with beautifully painted armies, maybe even like you, whom I would never play. But there are people that I would parachute into a gaming store to get a game in with who would say "hey I forgot X, can I proxy it" that is quite fine.
Its about people. Not models. I don't know where this social contract thing keeps popping up, but it certainly doesn't take people into account. Automatically Appended Next Post: PredaKhaine wrote:
You're taking my post seriously?
I said I wouldn't play against boxes of mini's, still wrapped in the plastic cellophane - as in straight off the shelf...but now I'm an elitist?
But yay, I get to be a fun ruiner!
Posting in binary is fun - an on/off state where on = Fun Ruiner, off= would rather just play boxes of space marines against each other without assembling a single thing
I love this logic 'you like to play assembled models=elitist'
Thanks, you've just given me a genuine laugh
there are people That I absolutely would allow that with. Right off the shelf, in cellophane. There are also people with Golden demon level painted units that its not worth my time playing against.
Its about the person on the other side, not the models.
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Post by: kronk
I refuse to play anyone that isn't a C-cup at least. Male or female.
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Post by: Riquende
carmachu wrote:
there are people That I absolutely would allow that with. Right off the shelf, in cellophane.
You know, it would be easier if you just admitted you hadn't really read the post you were replying to. But whatever man, keep digging.
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Post by: Palindrome
Of course but I stand by my stance that 'lack of time' is little more than an excuse, people obviously find it hard to accept but everything that we do requires motivation so if you don't do it.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
carmachu wrote: I would NEVER sit at a table and play an elitist like you or the OP or Palindrome.
This is the first time that I have ever been called an elitist and as such I will treasure this post for all of 5 seconds before discarding it for being utterly inaccurate.
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Post by: Rayvon
Im not sure whether this is a troll OP to be honest, I think its pretty obvious what you get.
If i paint all my own stuff, I end up with a massive army of horribly painted figures that look rubbish and make me cringe every time I whip them out.
I do try and do a bit when I can but not all of us have the time/patience/skill/means required to paint all the figures we play with.
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Post by: PredaKhaine
Predakhaine wrote: You're taking my post seriously? I said I wouldn't play against boxes of mini's, still wrapped in the plastic cellophane - as in straight off the shelf...but now I'm an elitist? But yay, I get to be a fun ruiner! Posting in binary is fun - an on/off state where on = Fun Ruiner, off= would rather just play boxes of space marines against each other without assembling a single thing I love this logic 'you like to play assembled models=elitist' Thanks, you've just given me a genuine laugh
carmachu wrote: there are people That I absolutely would allow that with. Right off the shelf, in cellophane. There are also people with Golden demon level painted units that its not worth my time playing against. Its about the person on the other side, not the models.
Ok - so who's being elitist? Me, with my preference for playing against assembled models or you with your list of criteria you apply to your games which basically comes down to "If I don't like you, I won't play you." Or Kronk who will only play against a c-cupped opponant? Edit:It's Kronk isn't it
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Post by: Alfndrate
 kronk wrote:I refuse to play anyone that isn't a C-cup at least. Male or female.
Double Ds right here Kronk! Er well, probably smaller, because I was borrowing an ex-gf's old bra, but she was DDs.
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Post by: kronk
Alf is ok in my book.
The rest of you, up your game!
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Post by: fishy bob
kronk wrote:Alf is ok in my book.
The rest of you, up your game!
More trans fat!
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Post by: Alfndrate
kronk wrote:Alf is ok in my book.
The rest of you, up your game!
Up the cup?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
 Platuan4th wrote:
I can honestly say, I've never thought "This game would be more fun if the other army was painted".
Do two painted armies facing each other look good? Yes, but as long as I have MY army painted(since I'm a "Play it Painted" type these days), I'm happy. I couldn't care less if the opponent has a painted army or not, I'm just happy to be playing.
96% of DakkaDakka users do not agree with you, according to a poll done a couple of years ago. They prefer playing with painted armies.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.
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Post by: PhantomViper
carmachu wrote:PhantomViper wrote:
Miniature wargaming is a social contract, if you don't care enough about that contract to even bother assembling your miniatures then I don't wan't to waste my limited free time playing you.
If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.
And again you demonstrate why I wouldn't play you. In my 24 years of playing wargames(longer if you count battletech and RPGs) I've discovered the simple rule- its about the people, ther person on the other side of the table that make the game great or suck. There are people with beautifully painted armies, maybe even like you, whom I would never play. But there are people that I would parachute into a gaming store to get a game in with who would say "hey I forgot X, can I proxy it" that is quite fine.
Its about people. Not models. I don't know where this social contract thing keeps popping up, but it certainly doesn't take people into account.
Its actually about the game and the gaming experience that you wan't to provide to your opponent.
I don't need a game to interact with people, if I wan't to interact with my friends we can just chat or go have a beer or whatever.
But if we agree to go play a game then I wan't to make sure that I'll provide my opponent with the best gaming experience that I can, and for me that means that I don't use proxies, and lately that the vast majority, if not all of the models that I use are fully painted. Likewise I expect my opponent to at least have his models assembled. I don't care if they are painted, I don't even mind if some are proxies, but I do draw the line at playing against half-assembled stuff!
As for you not wanting to play the likes of me, that's perfectly fine, if you are the kind of person that doesn't even make the bare minimum effort to provide your opponent with a good gaming experience, then like I said before, I'm not going to waste my limited gaming time playing you.
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Post by: PredaKhaine
The first person to play a 40k game, using only money as proxies (that saves you time going to the shop, paying for models, opening boxes, assembling and painting - the whole lot) wins the internet.
In fact - cash is equal to the effort of earning it, so the actual minimum amount of effort you could put in is a series of movements designed to earn you money.
So I'll type pretend to type 50 words and that can be a rhino proxy and then I could pretend to put a box on a shelf (aegis defence line)
What do you mean, you won't play against me and my army made entirely of proxy movements?! (so much so it actually looks like you're playing 40k while I practice interpretive dance at the other end of the table) Thats being elitist!
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Post by: Pyriel-
Time.
Loving to paint minis does not equal to being able to paint full armies of them, at least not if you are a very accurate and slow painter.
Another issue is the so called "fun" of it. True, painting new stuff is fun and all but someone really thinking it is a blast to paint up 180 of the very same looking shoota boys or 200 skeletons does not so to speak, have all the Indians in the canoe.
Again, if you are the spray-brush-done type then it might be bearable but if you want them to look really good then there are more fun things to do such as hitting yourself in the head with a frying pan.
Just the thought of unclipping, cleaning and assembling 180 orks gives me nightmares and I havent even reached the painting stage so if I can find someone willing to do that for pay then so much better.
Afterwards you can always add your own touch to the minis by adding detail work as you see fit.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Palindrome wrote:Everyone has time to paint, and I mean that literally.
When people say they lack the time to paint what they actually mean is that they lack the motivation.
This is incredibly arrogant. Claiming to know what time everyone has or does not have is completely ridiculous. You know nothing about me or my life on a per minute, hour, daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly basis. Please don't pretend to. Automatically Appended Next Post: Palindrome wrote:
I just don't accept that. Everyone can spare an average of an hour a week to paint man dollies; some weeks less and some weeks more but simply saying that you don't have the time at all is simply not true unless you work at least 80 hours a week. If you are motivated you will find the time, if you aren''t you won't.
Again, everyone can? Who the hell are you to tell people what time they do or do not have? Are you omniscient or omnipresent that you know, for a fact, the time everyone has? No you're not so stop acting as if you are.
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Post by: curran12
Yup. I just lack motivation to paint!
This whole 'nerve damage' thing is just an elaborate mental game in which I deny myself that time.
Please.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Platuan4th wrote:
Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.
It's not about you.
Maybe the point might help grey army players be more motivated to get their models painted.
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Post by: Platuan4th
 Kilkrazy wrote: Platuan4th wrote:
Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.
It's not about you.
Maybe the point might help grey army players be more motivated to get their models painted.
You missed the entire point, as tongue in cheek as I put it. It's not for others to decide how ANYONE beside themselves enjoys the hobby. Hobbies are about personal enjoyment, that's the entire point of them.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
No, you're missing the point.
If the people against whom one wants to play, prefer to play against painted armies, one is more likely to get a game if one's army is painted.
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Post by: Platuan4th
I got your point.
I'm saying that it's only going to affect those that already care about that, your posts about what Dakka thinks isn't going to sway those who already don't think that way.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Palindrome wrote:
Of course but I stand by my stance that 'lack of time' is little more than an excuse, people obviously find it hard to accept but everything that we do requires motivation so if you don't do it.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
carmachu wrote: I would NEVER sit at a table and play an elitist like you or the OP or Palindrome.
This is the first time that I have ever been called an elitist and as such I will treasure this post for all of 5 seconds before discarding it for being utterly inaccurate.
Well you are setting out that there is a correct way to act in a specific hobby situation (ie your way) and there is a wrong way (other people's way) - kind of sounds like the cap fits?
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Post by: glidden
The wargaming hobby is going to be very personal in what an individual enjoys. I've always enjoyed the modeling and painting aspect, and will sometimes play units that aren't as effective because they look cool and are painted. Playing a painted army against a painted army brings a whole new level of enjoyment to the game that I personally enjoy. I have a much deeper connection to my figures and a personal attachment to specific ones.
I also do commission painting for people who are more about playing, or want a model, unit, or army to be a nice table top standard which they either don't have the skill or patience to achieve. Do I think they are missing out? Sure, but that won't stop me from accepting commisions.
Bottom line is don't try and apply what you enjoy about the hobby to other people, you'll just get frustrated.
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Post by: Palindrome
 Mr Morden wrote:[
Well you are setting out that there is a correct way to act in a specific hobby situation (ie your way) and there is a wrong way (other people's way) - kind of sounds like the cap fits?
When did I do that? Every single post I have made in this thread is to point out that having no time to paint actually means having no motivation or interest in painting. It's self evident really, if someone wants to paint then they will find the time (and no one has literally no free time) and if they don't want to paint then they won't, its as simple as that. At no time did I make a judgement on this.
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Post by: PredaKhaine
Kilkrazy wrote:I've already faced worse than that.
I played against Tau and this is what he put out for his Stealth Suits.
Another time a Space Marine player hadn't built his Rhino. I asked how I was supposed to work out LoS from just a sprue and he showed me this scale drawing.
only just able to see these pics...
rofl!
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Post by: carlos13th
Palindrome wrote: Mr Morden wrote:[
Well you are setting out that there is a correct way to act in a specific hobby situation (ie your way) and there is a wrong way (other people's way) - kind of sounds like the cap fits?
When did I do that? Every single post I have made in this thread is to point out that having no time to paint actually means having no motivation or interest in painting. It's self evident really, if someone wants to paint then they will find the time (and no one has literally no free time) and if they don't want to paint then they won't, its as simple as that. At no time did I make a judgement on this.
You are still making assumptions about other peoples time. If you define free time as time not working or fulfilling other obligations then yes most people will have some time. But there are so many other things to do in their free time that may take precedence over painting models. They may even enjoy painting but enjoy spending their spare time skiing or jogging than they do painting. Something being lower on a persons free time priority list does not mean they are not motivated or are some how lazy. What is true for you is not true for everyone.
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Post by: Palindrome
 carlos13th wrote: Palindrome wrote: But there are so many other things to do in their free time that may take precedence over painting models
Yes there are but allowing other things to take complete preference over painting leads me a the conclusions that I have already stated.
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Post by: Alfndrate
Palindrome wrote: carlos13th wrote:But there are so many other things to do in their free time that may take precedence over painting models
Yes there are but allowing other things to take complete preference over painting leads me a the conclusions that I have already stated.
So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?
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Post by: kronk
I'm too busy fething to paint.
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Post by: Flood
My friend works a lot of long shifts, has dyspraxia and a wad of cash. He wants a nice painted army but it is simply beyond his own time and capabilities, therefore he pays for someone to paint them for him.
Fortunately it is me (someone with little cash and lots of time) 
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Post by: nkelsch
Painting is easy. But that doesn't mean it is 'EASY'.
The workshop needed to prep a model, assemble, paint and get it to production is a huge investment, a paint in the ass and takes space in your home. Sure, I can sit anyone down at *MY* workshop and have them paint to a decent level pretty quickly.
To get them to be able to set that up at home is a huge investment.
I play with lots of people who don't paint. I provide the models. For RPGs, at most they may want a single hero and often will ask me to paint it for them.
Wargaming is different, but I totally understand not wanting to have to have the effort for paint and assembly.
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Post by: xxvaderxx
FinnSeer wrote:I have noticed that there is a trend forming in the community where plenty of people buy their figures pre-painted or commission the painting for someone else.
Personally I don't understand this at all.
I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.
Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks. Sometimes I might sat on my work desk for a long time just trying to find out what the next miniature is going to look and what am I trying to tell with that particular miniature. After these are clear the task of actual conversion work will begin and the feeling can't be described with anything else than having a flow moment where everything is perfectly clear and you intuitively know what to do next like as someone would be guiding your hands.
Even at this stage the miniature starts having a personality. His or hers tilt of the head and position of the legs shows confidence or fear, the way of how the gun is kept shows the amount of training and battles fought before.
Painting adds even more life to the miniature. Is he a strict follower of rules and keeps his gear at prime condition or does he let things that do not affect the performance get dirty.
If I let someone do that instead of myself, I would lose a lot of the fun and what the hobby means for me.
I am not saying that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy the hobby and instead I would like to understand what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?
It is simple time and or skill.
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Post by: Palindrome
 Alfndrate wrote:
So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?
Well I suppose that depends in how obsessive a runner you are.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Palindrome wrote: Alfndrate wrote:
So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?
Well I suppose that depends in how obsessive a runner you are.
Clearly Alf if painting isn't priority numero uno in your life then you're doing it wrong. Because you know Palindrom knows exactly what our free time consists of to the point that he knows not painting means a lack of motivation not time in every case.
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Post by: Saldiven
Platuan4th wrote:
Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.
Once again, it becomes a case of "How dare you not enjoy the game the way I do!"
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Post by: Alfndrate
Palindrome wrote: Alfndrate wrote:
So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?
Well I suppose that depends in how obsessive a runner you are.
So if I'm more obsessed with an outcome of running (because I'd be running to lose weight) than I am when it comes to painting, I have a lack of motivation to paint? What if I want to be a local 5k 'fun run winner' and win local painting competitions? Those can't be more than a few hours of training a week. Why does me wanting to run in the evening mean I have a lack of motivation to paint? Painting isn't a chore to me in this situation, but it is simply another way to spend my time. My few hours in the evening are pulled in different directions, and I'm sure this only gets compounded when you're adding significant other and kids into the mix.
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Post by: Palindrome
 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Clearly Alf if painting isn't priority numero uno in your life then you're doing it wrong. Because you know Palindrom knows exactly what our free time consists of to the point that he knows not painting means a lack of motivation not time in every case.
Did you even read my posts? You certainly dont seem to have understood them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alfndrate wrote: Why does me wanting to run in the evening mean I have a lack of motivation to paint?
It doesn't. If you don't paint at all however due to 'lack of time' then you have no motivation to paint, because if you did have motivation you have found the time to paint something to some degree.
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Post by: Haight
The reasoning is typically one of , or a combination of the below:
1) Someone does not like to paint.
2) Someone does not have time to paint.
3) Someone sucks at painting.
4) Someone enjoys well painted minis.
5) Someone has enough disposable income to spend on commissioning a person that is good at painting.
At the end of the day if the minis are painted, who cares ? Is the 'must be painted' mini camp now expanding into 'must be painted (by you!)' territory ?
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Post by: Platuan4th
Saldiven wrote: Platuan4th wrote: Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.
Once again, it becomes a case of "How dare you not enjoy the game the way I do!"
Try reading the whole conversation again. My disagreement with KK is with his blanket statement: Using a non-painted army affects the opponent's experience.
Just because that's how a lot of Dakka feels does NOT mean it's an absolute fact of wargaming. I said as an opponent it doesn't affect me at all, it's a non-issue.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
No, it is an absolute fact. The same as if you wore a blindfold it would affect the visual experience.
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
I proudly commission my armies for many of the reasons listed by others in this thread. My time is short and I enjoy the aesthetic and game play of war gaming more than I enjoy the painting aspect. I have never had anyone care that I didn't paint my own models, and frankly I would LOVE to have a conversation with someone who was bothered by my commissioned army mans because that would really be a hilarious exchange. If someone is going judge my gamer credibility (ha! whatever that is) based on whether or not I physically applied paint to model, well, I simply don't need to interact with that person on any meaningful level.
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Post by: Platuan4th
We'll just have to agree to disagree, as it's going to be a circular argument.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Palindrome wrote: OverwatchCNC wrote:
Clearly Alf if painting isn't priority numero uno in your life then you're doing it wrong. Because you know Palindrom knows exactly what our free time consists of to the point that he knows not painting means a lack of motivation not time in every case.
Did you even read my posts? You certainly dont seem to have understood them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alfndrate wrote: Why does me wanting to run in the evening mean I have a lack of motivation to paint?
It doesn't.
I both read and understood. You seem to have an innate understanding of how everyone uses their time and are the judge of that usage of time. Those who claim they lack the time required to paint are lazy not busy. You know that for a fact it would seem. I got it.
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Post by: Palindrome
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Post by: Alfndrate
Palindrome wrote:It doesn't. If you don't paint at all however due to 'lack of time' then you have no motivation to paint, because if you did have motivation you have have painted something to some degree.
I can have all the motivation in the world to paint. I could sit here on Dakka and go, "man I really want to paint those Forge World pieces tonight." and I could get home and realize, "well I have to cook and eat dinner" so I lose some time, and then, "those dishes are really starting to pile up, I should clean them." and then, "I need to throw in some laundry." to, "I need to walk the dog" to throwing the laundry into the dryer, and then reading the kids a bedtime story and then spending some time with the wife, or balancing my checkbook, or paying bills and budgeting for the next month. Just because I do not have the time on a daily basis because other things get in the way does not mean I have a lack of motivation it means that there are other things in my life that I chose to put ahead of painting because they were more time sensitive (paying bills), or it's responsible (chores, putting the kids to bed, etc...). Perhaps you're fine with wetting a brush, popping a paint pot open and painting a leg, but to me that is more of hassle to set up and tear down when I can save it for the times when I do have the chances to paint.
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Post by: Kirasu
I love how people paying for painting is such a controversial topic. What about growing your own food vs buying it from the grocery store? Building your own house vs contracting the work out? What is it about PAINTING models causes this? It's like how people flip out about Space Marine special characters not being from the "right" chapter yet barely anyone gives a damn about Eldrad being in every Eldar list.
I've painted 80,000 points of 40k models.. That's A LOT btw, am I less of a painter because 3 units of that 80k was commissioned due to not having the time? It's not some black and white subject, plenty who paint also pay others to paint for them to speed up the process.
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Post by: carmachu
PhantomViper wrote:
Its actually about the game and the gaming experience that you wan't to provide to your opponent.
I don't need a game to interact with people, if I wan't to interact with my friends we can just chat or go have a beer or whatever.
But if we agree to go play a game then I wan't to make sure that I'll provide my opponent with the best gaming experience that I can, and for me that means that I don't use proxies, and lately that the vast majority, if not all of the models that I use are fully painted. Likewise I expect my opponent to at least have his models assembled. I don't care if they are painted, I don't even mind if some are proxies, but I do draw the line at playing against half-assembled stuff!
As for you not wanting to play the likes of me, that's perfectly fine, if you are the kind of person that doesn't even make the bare minimum effort to provide your opponent with a good gaming experience, then like I said before, I'm not going to waste my limited gaming time playing you.
Given the attidude you have provided in this thread, the assumption a "well painted army" is providing your opponent a good time is woefully lacking in what a good time would be. I'm the kind of person that provides a good game to whatever steps up to the table- GD level, or barely assembled. You seem to think that a painted army is what its about. Sadly you misss the mark of what truely provides a good experience.
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
 Kirasu wrote:I love how people paying for painting is such a controversial topic. What about growing your own food vs buying it from the grocery store? Building your own house vs contracting the work out? What is it about PAINTING models causes this?
I am also rather curious why this is such a problem for some people.
The only conclusion I can come to is that there is a misconception that people who commission paint work must be hemorrhaging money, and therefore are somehow illegitimate hobbyists because their wealth allows them to bypass certain parts of the hhhobby.
Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not stating this as fact. It is merely a theory I have based on numerous discussions on this topic both here and on other forums. In all of those discussions there appeared to be a creeping distrust of anyone who commissions their models and inevitably economic factors came into play as to why the act of commissioning is "ridiculous". I can't help but think there is a level of envy based upon the misconception that commissioners are fat cats buying their way into war gaming.
Again, just a theory.
*edited for typo
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Post by: Palindrome
Alfndrate wrote: Palindrome wrote:It doesn't. If you don't paint at all however due to 'lack of time' then you have no motivation to paint, because if you did have motivation you have have painted something to some degree.
I can have all the motivation in the world to paint. I could sit here on Dakka and go, "man I really want to paint those Forge World pieces tonight." and I could get home and realize, "well I have to cook and eat dinner" so I lose some time, and then, "those dishes are really starting to pile up, I should clean them." and then, "I need to throw in some laundry." to, "I need to walk the dog" to throwing the laundry into the dryer, and then reading the kids a bedtime story and then spending some time with the wife, or balancing my checkbook, or paying bills and budgeting for the next month. Just because I do not have the time on a daily basis because other things get in the way does not mean I have a lack of motivation it means that there are other things in my life that I chose to put ahead of painting because they were more time sensitive (paying bills), or it's responsible (chores, putting the kids to bed, etc...).
So you are telling me that in a given week, or month, you have no time that you could set aside to paint models? None at all?
I have the same time pressures that you do (minus the dog) yet if there is something that I need to get painted I will make time to do so. It may well mean cutting back on something else but then that's central to the point that I am making. If you are motivated you will find the time but if you aren't you won't.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Palindrome wrote: Alfndrate wrote: Palindrome wrote:It doesn't. If you don't paint at all however due to 'lack of time' then you have no motivation to paint, because if you did have motivation you have have painted something to some degree.
I can have all the motivation in the world to paint. I could sit here on Dakka and go, "man I really want to paint those Forge World pieces tonight." and I could get home and realize, "well I have to cook and eat dinner" so I lose some time, and then, "those dishes are really starting to pile up, I should clean them." and then, "I need to throw in some laundry." to, "I need to walk the dog" to throwing the laundry into the dryer, and then reading the kids a bedtime story and then spending some time with the wife, or balancing my checkbook, or paying bills and budgeting for the next month. Just because I do not have the time on a daily basis because other things get in the way does not mean I have a lack of motivation it means that there are other things in my life that I chose to put ahead of painting because they were more time sensitive (paying bills), or it's responsible (chores, putting the kids to bed, etc...).
So you are telling me that in a given week, or month, you have no time that you could set aside to paint models? None at all?
You're trying to tell us that you're a better judge of our time still? You see, I am both reading and understanding you.
Who are you to judge that? Secondly what does it matter if someone has the time to paint and chooses to purchase painted models instead? It doesn't. You're trying to enforce your own perceptions of other peoples lives and how they should be living them.
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Post by: Alfndrate
Palindrome wrote:So you are telling me that in a given week, or month, you have no time that you could set aside to paint models? None at all?
I have time, what I dedicate it to is for me to choose. Monday and Thursday were the only two days in the past month that I took brush to model because for prior month I was choosing to spend my time doing other things (namely playing Final Fantasy 14). It was not that I didn't want to paint, or that I didn't feel motivated to paint, it's just that I was chose to spend my time in the evenings to get to the end content of the game.
I have the same time pressures that you do (minus the dog) yet if there is something that I need to get painted I will make time to do so. It may well mean cutting back on something else but then that's central to the point that I am making. If you are motivated you will find the time but if you aren't you won't.
Well I don't have dogs, kids, or wife , but I do have a cat and cats are like toddlers that you can leave alone.
The other problem is what type of person you are. I'm, admittedly, a procrastinator, I work better under pressure. Out of the 'armies' I painted myself (because I've bought 3 of my armies second hand and pre-painted) 90% of the work was done a week ahead of an event, I would sit down and say, "I need to paint these models by Sunday." and then spend the week painting those models. Do I have more motivation to paint those models than say a month before the event? Yeah, but that's because the event holds importance, but painting models takes no more motivation for me to do than sitting down and playing a video game. It all depends on where I choose to put my time, which I'm sure is the point you're making, but you're hung up on the word motivation.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
I appreciate that some people will want to pay for figures to be painted, maybe they don't have the time, which is possible. Also they may not be able to paint to the standard they see online, again possible. I've never commissioned painted models but I have bought painted models, sometimes it's nice to have the variety. I wouldn't commission an army though, that's not my thing.
As long as you don't try to pass off the work as your own, which is simply a lie, I'm ok with it.
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Post by: Palindrome
Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.
What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
Palindrome wrote: Alfndrate wrote: Palindrome wrote:It doesn't. If you don't paint at all however due to 'lack of time' then you have no motivation to paint, because if you did have motivation you have have painted something to some degree.
I can have all the motivation in the world to paint. I could sit here on Dakka and go, "man I really want to paint those Forge World pieces tonight." and I could get home and realize, "well I have to cook and eat dinner" so I lose some time, and then, "those dishes are really starting to pile up, I should clean them." and then, "I need to throw in some laundry." to, "I need to walk the dog" to throwing the laundry into the dryer, and then reading the kids a bedtime story and then spending some time with the wife, or balancing my checkbook, or paying bills and budgeting for the next month. Just because I do not have the time on a daily basis because other things get in the way does not mean I have a lack of motivation it means that there are other things in my life that I chose to put ahead of painting because they were more time sensitive (paying bills), or it's responsible (chores, putting the kids to bed, etc...).
So you are telling me that in a given week, or month, you have no time that you could set aside to paint models? None at all?
The problem here is not that there isn't time. Of course there is time. One could forgo a lot of things in order to find time for painting, but that choice is made by an individual based on whether or not the activity being sacrificed for the painting has merit and importance in that individual's life. And that seems to be where the disconnect is for you and those who are unwilling to sacrifice other aspects of their life to paint.
For example, I could skip sleeping if I wanted to paint. I could also call out sick from work for an entire week to try and knock out a new army, but the activities of sleeping and working are more important to me than painting. And there is a whole slew of other activities deemed more important in my life than painting. Painting isn't necessary to play the game, and it certainly isn't necessary when artists are willing to sell their services to paint armies. So, trying to get a "gotcha" moment out of those of us who are saying we don't have time to paint is a pointless endeavor. Because we do not have time relative to the other more pressing matters in our lives that we deem more worthwhile than painting.
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Post by: dakkajet
I love to paint my models and I have too much time to do it. That dose'nt mean everyone does. Not everyone loves to paint and has the time to do it!
Some people are in the hobby for the gaming, some for the painting, some for both and more. If people get others to paint their models they have their resons.
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Post by: Saldiven
Palindrome wrote:
Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.
What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.
What about people (like me) who think painting models is the most tedious, time consuming, and least enjoyable possible way upon which I could waste any measureable amount of time doing. Automatically Appended Next Post:  dakkajet wrote:I love to paint my models and I have too much time to do it. That dose'nt mean everyone does. Not everyone loves to paint and has the time to do it!
Some people are in the hobby for the gaming, some for the painting, some for both and more. If people get others to paint their models they have their resons.
This is one of the most accurate, well reasoned, and respectable posts on this thread thus far.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Palindrome wrote:
Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.
What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.
That is "bullocks" and no more than a sweeping assumption on your part based on nothing other than your own personal experiences and observations of people in the hobby. How exactly do you know it is "bullocks"? Have you interviewed all of these aforementioned people who you claim have the time to paint despite their assertions to the contrary? Do you have any sort of data on the topic? If not then I would boldly venture that your assertions are in fact "bullocks" and not the other way around. There is no way at all that you can back up your claims that those who pay for armies to be painted because they don't have time do in fact have the time.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Speaking as an old school club player, the attitude that used to be normal was to play with painted models.
If you painted them yourself that was highly admirable, especially if they were nicely done, and lots of people did paint their own stuff. OTOH there was no shame in getting stuff done by other people.
I personally have painted a number of armies, two of which I sold off to other club members, and I have bought or commissioned several armies.
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Post by: PhantomViper
carmachu wrote:
Given the attidude you have provided in this thread, the assumption a "well painted army" is providing your opponent a good time is woefully lacking in what a good time would be. I'm the kind of person that provides a good game to whatever steps up to the table- GD level, or barely assembled. You seem to think that a painted army is what its about. Sadly you misss the mark of what truely provides a good experience.
No, I said that a well painted army is part of the gaming experience.
And given the attitude that you've displayed in this thread I would say that you must be part of that select number of players that half-assembles models and then claims them to be whatever over-powered flavour of the month army the interwebs are sprouting at the moment... And then have the gal to call anyone elitist because they don't wan't to play your half Ork, half Grey Knight mess that really are meant to be Necrons and Tau this time...
That must be it isn't it? That is the reason why people that don't like playing against unassembled models seem to be affecting you so much? Because you ARE one of "those" guys?
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Post by: troa
I think some of the stigma results from people believing somewhere inside that a commissioned army indicates a player who is willing to pay to win. Basically, that they are throwing their money around. Similar to how in online games people get mad if you use real life cash items, even if that item has the same stats as an earn-able item.
Personally, I have some pre-painted stuff, but that's because it was A) cheap for the number of models I got, and B) allowed me to start playing a new army when I don't have time to paint it at the moment. And there is always the last part... C) I tend to be semi-perfectionist in my painting, and so it takes me forever.
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Post by: Elemental
 troa wrote:I think some of the stigma results from people believing somewhere inside that a commissioned army indicates a player who is willing to pay to win. Basically, that they are throwing their money around. Similar to how in online games people get mad if you use real life cash items, even if that item has the same stats as an earn-able item.
Um, how does a painted army help you win? If anything, an unpainted one would give you an edge, as people find it harder to tell which model is which.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
It will be a long time before I win a game of 40K with this army I commissioned...
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Post by: Palindrome
OverwatchCNC wrote:
That is "bullocks" and no more than a sweeping assumption on your part based on nothing other than your own personal experiences and observations of people in the hobby. How exactly do you know it is "bullocks"? Have you interviewed all of these aforementioned people who you claim have the time to paint despite their assertions to the contrary? Do you have any sort of data on the topic? If not then I would boldly venture that your assertions are in fact "bullocks" and not the other way around. There is no way at all that you can back up your claims that those who pay for armies to be painted because they don't have time do in fact have the time.
Its bollocks, with an o.
I have already stated my case on mulitple occasions. If you don't have the time you had better work 80+ hours a week and have a large family, otherwise I think you will find that what you actually have is no inclination to sit down and paint.
I really don't care if you pay someone else to paint your armies for you or if you paint them yourself, but at least be honest.
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Post by: curran12
Yup. My whole nerve damage and inability to hold a brush steady is just an excuse, isn't it, Pallindrome?
The more and more you claim to not be arrogant, the more and more you sound it.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Palindrome wrote: OverwatchCNC wrote:
That is "bullocks" and no more than a sweeping assumption on your part based on nothing other than your own personal experiences and observations of people in the hobby. How exactly do you know it is "bullocks"? Have you interviewed all of these aforementioned people who you claim have the time to paint despite their assertions to the contrary? Do you have any sort of data on the topic? If not then I would boldly venture that your assertions are in fact "bullocks" and not the other way around. There is no way at all that you can back up your claims that those who pay for armies to be painted because they don't have time do in fact have the time.
Its bollocks, with an o.
I have already stated my case on mulitple occasions. If you don't have the time you had better work 80+ hours a week and have a large family, otherwise I think you will find that what you actually have is no inclination to sit down and paint.
I really don't care if you pay someone else to paint your armies for you or if you paint them yourself, but at least be honest.
I don't understand where you get off making those sorts of statements about other peoples' lives. You don't live their lives. The experience of living is not inherently equal across the board for everyone on the planet as you seem to think it is. Nor should people be held to your arbitrary standards.
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Post by: Palindrome
Saldiven wrote:
What about people (like me) who think painting models is the most tedious, time consuming, and least enjoyable possible way upon which I could waste any measureable amount of time doing
As long as you don't make false claims I really don't care.
I have never refused to play anyone in my 2 decades of wargaming, although I wish I had turned down a couple of games in hindsight, and I am unlikely to start now.
Personally I only field fully painted and based units but I have seen everything from highly unlikely unpainted proxies to golden deamon standard armies across the table. I really don't care overly much but what irks me is dishonesty.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
OverwatchCNC wrote:
I don't understand where you get off making those sorts of statements about other peoples' lives.
Keep your facepalms well away from me. If you have the inclination to paint, thats exactly what you will do. if you don't, as I have said repeatedly, you won't.
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Post by: Stranger83
Palindrome, I think peoples objection is with your use of the term no motivation, this implies that someone is lazy and just cannot be bother to finish painting there army, this is a very different from someone who would love to paint their army but puts it behind supporting their team / playing games / spending time with the family.
the use of no motivation implies that even if they didn't have these other things to do that they would still find something else to do instead of painting - when for many people that is not the case. Having too many things to do is not the same as having no motivation to do something, and I think it is your use of this term that is causing the misunderstanding on what you are saying.
You're argument of "you would make time" makes me believe that you are probably in late teens/early 20's without a family (apologies if not - but that's the kind of attitude I had back then), if that is true you have no idea what it is like to support a family. Now as I've said before I manage to do some painting and I enjoy it - but due to the speed at which I paint I do send some stuff off to a commission painter so that it actually gets done. I have tonnes of motivation to paint, but I also have obligations to look after my family and yes I do put playing games ahead of painting so if I can get a free moment when one of my gamer friends also gets a free moment (they also have families so have their own obligations) I do that instead of paint. Again this is not a lack of motivation, just a different set of priorties.
I think most people actually agree with what you are trying to say - I just think your choice of words is wrong. Then again I could be entirely wrong on that point.
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Post by: Palindrome
 curran12 wrote:Yup. My whole nerve damage and inability to hold a brush steady is just an excuse, isn't it, Pallindrome?
No, its a reason.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Palindrome wrote:Saldiven wrote:
What about people (like me) who think painting models is the most tedious, time consuming, and least enjoyable possible way upon which I could waste any measureable amount of time doing
As long as you don't make false claims I really don't care.
I have never refused to play anyone in my 2 decades of wargaming, although I wish I had turned down a couple of games in hindsight, and I am unlikely to start now.
Personally I only field fully painted and based units but I have seen everything from highly unlikely unpainted proxies to golden deamon standard armies across the table. I really don't care overly much but what irks me is dishonesty.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
OverwatchCNC wrote:
I don't understand where you get off making those sorts of statements about other peoples' lives.
Keep your facepalms well away from me. If you have the inclination to paint, thats exactly what you will do. if you don't, as I have said repeatedly, you won't.
The face palm was in reference to my misspelling bollocks. Should have made that clear, sorry.
OT I still think you're making some pretty off base assumptions about how other hobbyists hobby.
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Post by: Palindrome
Stranger83 wrote:
You're argument of "you would make time" makes me believe that you are probably in late teens/early 20's without a family (apologies if not - but that's the kind of attitude I had back then).
I am in my mid 30's with a young family and in full time employment.
As I have said I don't mind people paying others to paint their armies, or even playing against bare metal armies, what I dislike is the 'no time' excuse.
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Post by: Stranger83
Palindrome wrote:Stranger83 wrote:
You're argument of "you would make time" makes me believe that you are probably in late teens/early 20's without a family (apologies if not - but that's the kind of attitude I had back then).
I am in my mid 30's with a young family and in full time employment.
As I have said I don't mind people paying others to paint their armies, or even playing against bare metal armies, what I dislike is the 'no time' excuse.
Then I presume that you have no other hobbies? Or that you at least view gaming as your top hobby? which if fair enough and good for you - it's great that you put this top of the pile and I wish I could (unfortunately as the misses doesn't game I have to put archery at the top of the pile as that is a hobby where I can also hang out with her - maximising the use of my time) but the fact that I put spending time with my misses and another hobby doesn't mean that I have no motivation, and whilst maybe "once I've done everything that I view as a higher priority I have no time" might be a better choice of words than just "I have no time" that still doesn't mean that we have no motivation to paint
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Post by: Kilkrazy
We seem to have got rather off the topic here.
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Post by: Palindrome
But if you never paint then you obviously aren't motivated to field painted armies, you may like to but if you don't put any effort towards it then its obviously not that important to you. That's fine in itself but at least be honest about it if it is true.
Painting is far from my main hobby, in fact it's not something that I particularly enjoy but if I need to get something done I will get it done before it hits the table..
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Post by: Boblogik
Palindrome wrote:
Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.
What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.
I call bs on that. Here's an example of what some people have to do in an average week. I got up at 3AM, got dressed and packed for work. Left the house at 3:30AM, Drove for 3 hours to my jobsite arriving at 6:30AM. Started work at 7AM. Got finished with work at 5:30PM. Drove home for 3 hours getting home at 8:30PM. I got changed out of dirty work clothes and got cleaned up, and start dinner at 9:00PM. Eat dinner and sit down for about 30min so done with that at 9:30. At this point, if I went to bed immediately I would only get 5 and a half hours of sleep. I guess I could've painted instead of slept...
So yeah, some people may legitimately not have any time to paint. Even though that project ended and I don't have to drive 6 hours a day, I still struggle to find time to paint because having your own house is a constant upkeep effort, along with 3 cats, 2 dogs.
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Post by: Palindrome
 Boblogik wrote: Palindrome wrote:
Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.
What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.
I call bs on that. Here's an example of what some people have to do in an average week. I got up at 3AM, got dressed and packed for work. Left the house at 3:30AM, Drove for 3 hours to my jobsite arriving at 6:30AM. Started work at 7AM. Got finished with work at 5:30PM. Drove home for 3 hours getting home at 8:30PM. I got changed out of dirty work clothes and got cleaned up, and start dinner at 9:00PM. Eat dinner and sit down for about 30min so done with that at 9:30. At this point, if I went to bed immediately I would only get 5 and a half hours of sleep. I guess I could've painted instead of slept...
So yeah, some people may legitimately not have any time to paint. Even though that project ended and I don't have to drive 6 hours a day, I still struggle to find time to paint because having your own house is a constant upkeep effort, along with 3 cats, 2 dogs.
Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.
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Post by: jamin484
I get a connection with my commision painted models becasue I ask my commission painter to do stuff that personalises the model to me. Which tends to be sesame street for some reason. Have a deek at the 'cookie cutter'
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/496077-Vendetta.html
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/496079-Vendetta.html
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Post by: Boblogik
Palindrome wrote: Boblogik wrote: Palindrome wrote:
Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.
What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.
I call bs on that. Here's an example of what some people have to do in an average week. I got up at 3AM, got dressed and packed for work. Left the house at 3:30AM, Drove for 3 hours to my jobsite arriving at 6:30AM. Started work at 7AM. Got finished with work at 5:30PM. Drove home for 3 hours getting home at 8:30PM. I got changed out of dirty work clothes and got cleaned up, and start dinner at 9:00PM. Eat dinner and sit down for about 30min so done with that at 9:30. At this point, if I went to bed immediately I would only get 5 and a half hours of sleep. I guess I could've painted instead of slept...
So yeah, some people may legitimately not have any time to paint. Even though that project ended and I don't have to drive 6 hours a day, I still struggle to find time to paint because having your own house is a constant upkeep effort, along with 3 cats, 2 dogs.
Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.
Well I am an Operating Engineer out of Local 18 and I work with a crane rental company. That project lasted one month (thankfully... it was killing me). I get sent all over the state of Ohio. I get paid good wages and I love working with the cranes. Not all the jobsites I get sent to are 3 hours away, most are about an hour each way. I was working on the pipeline running through the state, working with a directional drill, we worked 72 hours a week (12hrs/day 6days/week) and I lived an hour from that job. Now that I made fantastic money. I was bringing home 1700$/wk after taxes. Shame that lasted only 3 weeks.
Eventually I'll get my army painted, but 8000pts of guard is daunting...
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Post by: Stranger83
Palindrome wrote:
But if you never paint then you obviously aren't motivated to field painted armies, you may like to but if you don't put any effort towards it then its obviously not that important to you. That's fine in itself but at least be honest about it if it is true.
Painting is far from my main hobby, in fact it's not something that I particularly enjoy but if I need to get something done I will get it done before it hits the table..
Again, not being motivated and having other priorities are not the same thing. For years I have wanted to learn the guitar, but other priorities have meant that I just cannot free up the time. Yes if it really meant a lot to me I COULD give up archery, I COULD spend less time with the family, I COULD give up gaming but all these are a higher priority to me than learning the guitar. This doesn't however mean that I have no motivation to learn to play the guitar, I am very motivated, but freeing up the time is not something I am prepared to do as I don't want to stop doing any of the stuff I am currently doing. Now if my employer told me tomorrow I could have the same wage and only work 20 hours a week instead of 40 I would be all over learning the guitar - but right now my free time is limited enough that I cannot free the time to do that without giving something else up
So again, it's not that I disagree with what I think you are trying to say, which is that people put other things ahead of painting, I just disagree with your use of no motivation, I'm very motivated, it just isn;t a high priority.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Palindrome wrote:Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.
That seems to be descending into personal abuse. Can't you just accept that not everyone has a life that reflects yours, and can't find the same spare time to devote to recreational activities as you can?
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Post by: TheWildHost
Because I paint like a drunk man having a seizure.
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Post by: Warsmith262
without a doubt: time, skill, desire, are reasons people dont want to paint their own armies. Most of my painting these days is for other people and I usually paint my own stuff to a lesser level than what I paint my clients stuff. Since I have a family now I find it even more difficult to make time to paint for ME.I paint armies for money though...and its pretty fun.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Not going to lie that made me laugh pretty hard.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
Okay... let us see....
Do I prefer playing against a painted army? YES.
Will I play against an unpainted army? YES.
Will I mock the player of an unpainted army, without measure or mercy? YES.
Will I play against an army that has commissioned paint jobs? YES.
Will I mock the player of said commissioned army? DEPENDS - if I was the one to paint it I am likely to make comments like 'That is one damn fine painted army - I couldn't have done better myself!' or the like. Otherwise, NO - odds are excellent that I will neither know nor care. I just prefer facing a painted army.
I am not going to say ' Everyone has time to PAINT!' - folks spend their time as they see fit. I like painting. My girlfriend likes painting. But not everyone does.
And, honestly, if my girlfriend didn't like spending time conversing with me over bottles of paint... it is likely that I would be doing something else instead of painting little toy soldiers. I like painting, but I like spending time with my girlfriend more. That we can spend time, together, is a minor but special miracle that I give thanks for daily.
I wouldn't have time for painting, because I would be singing in a punk band or something. (Don't laugh... I have sung in her punk band.)
The Auld Grump - British Isles punk...not to be confused with British folk music. One is about drinking, fighting, sex, and about how the world is basically unfair. The other.... Okay, there is no real difference.
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Post by: Palindrome
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Palindrome wrote:Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.
That seems to be descending into personal abuse. Can't you just accept that not everyone has a life that reflects yours, and can't find the same spare time to devote to recreational activities as you can?
Do you mind explaining exactly how I was abusive?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other words you are slightly motivated.
I hate to keep repeating myself but seriously, if people want to have painted armies they would have them.
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Post by: carlos13th
Palindrome wrote:Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Palindrome wrote:Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.
That seems to be descending into personal abuse. Can't you just accept that not everyone has a life that reflects yours, and can't find the same spare time to devote to recreational activities as you can?
Do you mind explaining exactly how I was abusive?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other words you are slightly motivated.
I hate to keep repeating myself but seriously, if people want to have painted armies they would have them.
You keep judging other peoples lives as if they are your own. Please stop that. You told someone else they should get another job. I hope you realise what a ridiculous statement that was. Maybe he loves his job, maybe it earns him lots of money so he can make cash now and retire early, maybe the money he is making is worth the time commitment to him, maybe he can't just "Get another job" as if changing jobs is like changing underwear.
How many people have to disagree with you to get it through your skull that not everyone is you, not everyone has the same amount of time to dedicate to things that you do and other people who do have the same amount of free time will fill it with other activities before painting. Also people who want painted armies and don't have time do get painted armies, buy paying someone else to paint them.
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Post by: Palindrome
carlos13th wrote:
You keep judging other peoples lives as if they are your own. Please stop that. You told someone else they should get another job.
Firstly I don't, I am merely stating the obvious and secondly I told the other poster that he needs to get another job as a 6 hour daily commute is madness. If you want to get over excited about my posts how about tethering your own replies to reality?
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Post by: carlos13th
Palindrome wrote: carlos13th wrote:
You keep judging other peoples lives as if they are your own. Please stop that. You told someone else they should get another job.
Firstly I don't, I am merely stating the obvious and secondly I told the other poster that he needs to get another job as a 6 hour daily commute is madness. If you want to get over excited about my posts how about tethering your own replies to reality?
You should tie yours to reality first. Also who's excited?
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Post by: Kelly502
Ok...
I have been in the hobby a long time, I have gotten better at painting and I had won some best painted etc. Here in the most recent years the painting ability in most gamers has increased a hundred fold. I wouldn't mind at all, allowing someone to paint an army for me, or perhaps a few squads, or characters.
I used to paint squads, armies, and characters for folk. I enjoyed it yet I had a difficult time parting with the miniatures at the end. I still miss some of them.
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Post by: blingman
Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.
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Post by: Palindrome
blingman wrote:Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.
I state my case clearly, yet you so obviously fail to grasp it's substance, and you additionally resort to base insults which you only get away with due to the anonymity of the internet. Who exactly is the idiot here?
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Post by: Ouze
I myself paint all of my models because I am cheap and disinclined to pay others for things I know how to do and already own the equipment for.
However, as someone who really does not enjoy painting at all, I make no value judgments of people who pay others to do it for them. For me, it's a tedious chore, not fun at all.
"The reasoning", as asked for by the OP, is the same as anyone who brought home takeout one night instead of stopping at the grocery store and picking up things to make a meal from scratch: The money was available and time time\inclination\ability were not.
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Post by: Ascalam
curran12 wrote:And hey, I have nerve damage in my dominant arm that prevents me from holding a brush steady. Guess I don't get to have a painted army anymore, eh?
Ditto.
I'm painting my army, because i like my armies painted, but it takes a fething long time with a gammy arm and a dodgy eye...
My orks will not be painted in full for years. It takes me days to paint each one well enough to not feel bad about fielding them (average-poor tabletop quality).
I have no issue with people having their models painted/buying painted models. I'm just a stubborn old cuss
Each to their own.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Abuse might be the wrong term. My point is that you're getting personal. Telling him he really needs to get a new job, because his current (and apparently well paying) job doesn't leave him as much free time for painting as you have? Who are you to tell others what to do regarding their hobby and employment?
edit: he also said that it was a temporary project, which paid him extremely well, and his typical commute is only an hour or so.
Palindrome wrote:Firstly I don't, I am merely stating the obvious and secondly I told the other poster that he needs to get another job as a 6 hour daily commute is madness. If you want to get over excited about my posts how about tethering your own replies to reality?
Thats the problem with people who boldy claim to be stating the obvious. 9/10 its only obvious to themselves, they're clearly right and all the people disagreeing with them, no matter how many, are clearly wrong.
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Post by: Velour_Fog
Well this is certainly a contentious issue of the wargaming community.
Personally, I don't care either way, however I would get annoyed if someone tried to pass off a commission painter's work as their own.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I really think it is time to put the time issue to one side.
It may be technically correct that anyone can find an hour a week to do painting, however on that basis it would take months or years to finish an army so realistically people aren't going to do it.
Moving back to the core topic, it seems there are several reasons for buying painted figures. The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.
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Post by: Velour_Fog
Kilkrazy wrote:The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.
Holy cow! Really? I mean, I'd think someone was a bit of a dick if they claimed their commissioned army was their own work and I found out it wasn't, but putting something in for Golden daemon? That's... I can't really find the words... What would they get out of an award that isn't for their work?
Just wondering out loud really.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
My thoughts too, however it has been done. Perhaps there is a prize of monetary value, like a set of paints, as well as the false kudos.
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Post by: snurl
Resale value maybe?
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Post by: carlos13th
blingman wrote:Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.
Thats out of line mate. You are basically calling him a bad father based on a forum post. Thats far more insulting than anything he has said by a country mile. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Velour_Fog wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.
Holy cow! Really? I mean, I'd think someone was a bit of a dick if they claimed their commissioned army was their own work and I found out it wasn't, but putting something in for Golden daemon? That's... I can't really find the words... What would they get out of an award that isn't for their work?
Just wondering out loud really.
Yeah it would be the equivalent of getting someone to play a tournament for you. Except I imagine the painting thing is a little easier to get away with.
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Post by: Big P
I wonder how people define my situation.
I paint my stuff every evening and paint for PSC once a week for a day ... and l get stuff commissioned!
Simply put it allows me to have another army being done while Im doing one.
I find the thought that there is some sort of stigma attached to buying painted figures a bit ridiculous, but then my whole hobby is funded by selling painted models.
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Post by: Stranger83
Palindrome wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other words you are slightly motivated.
OK - I can only presume that A) you are purposely being contradictory for the sake of it or B) you do not actually understand the mean of motivation. having things in your live that are more important does not mean that you are less motivated to do something.
For instance, I have zero motivation to go see the in-laws every christmas, yet I will still do this over painting as it is very important to the misses and thus is pretty important to my relationship with her that I go along, in this instance I do something that I have no motivation for over something that I have some motivation for because it is more important to me.
Since I agree with what you are actually trying to say, but disagree with the wording that you are using then there is little more point continuing the conversation.
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Post by: blingman
carlos13th wrote:blingman wrote:Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.
Thats out of line mate. You are basically calling him a bad father based on a forum post. Thats far more insulting than anything he has said by a country mile.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Velour_Fog wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.
U
Holy cow! Really? I mean, I'd think someone was a bit of a dick if they claimed their commissioned army was their own work and I found out it wasn't, but putting something in for Golden daemon? That's... I can't really find the words... What would they get out of an award that isn't for their work?
Just wondering out loud really.
Yeah it would be the equivalent of getting someone to play a tournament for you. Except I imagine the painting thing is a little easier to get away with.
No need to put words in mycially when you dont even comprehend my post correctly
I said nothing about him being a bad father, you made that up, i said i feel sorry for his kids, its a shame that innocent kids have to be dragged up by such an immature man that says such ridiculous stuff.
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Post by: da001
Lots of anger in this discussion.
I haven´t painted anything in at least two years.
1) I am awful at it. Units painted by me are a pain to see. It takes me a lot of time and effort and I get very few in return.
2) I have not much spare time. I will gladly dedicate it to something else. There are many things more important to me.
As a result, most of my stuff has been painted by other people, and I gladly pay for it.
When I was younger, I had much more spare time, and I painted regularly. I really miss it
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Post by: carlos13th
blingman wrote: carlos13th wrote:blingman wrote:Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.
Thats out of line mate. You are basically calling him a bad father based on a forum post. Thats far more insulting than anything he has said by a country mile.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Velour_Fog wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.
U
Holy cow! Really? I mean, I'd think someone was a bit of a dick if they claimed their commissioned army was their own work and I found out it wasn't, but putting something in for Golden daemon? That's... I can't really find the words... What would they get out of an award that isn't for their work?
Just wondering out loud really.
Yeah it would be the equivalent of getting someone to play a tournament for you. Except I imagine the painting thing is a little easier to get away with.
No need to put words in mycially when you dont even comprehend my post correctly
I said nothing about him being a bad father, you made that up, i said i feel sorry for his kids, its a shame that innocent kids have to be dragged up by such an immature man that says such ridiculous stuff.
Saying you feel sorry for someones kids because of their father is questioning their fathers parenting is it not? I disagree with his posts in this thread but it says nothing at all about how he is with his children and I think its wrong to bring them into it. I think I comprehend your post correctly. Why is "you don't understand my post" such a go to reply on this forum when someone disagrees with them? Can they not comprehend that someone can both understand what they have said and dissagree with it.
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Post by: fishy bob
Palindrome wrote:blingman wrote:Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.
I state my case clearly, yet you so obviously fail to grasp it's substance, and you additionally resort to base insults which you only get away with due to the anonymity of the internet. Who exactly is the idiot here?
Wow, it took five pages for someone to become the internet tough guy. Gotta be a new record for a thread on the subject of painted vs unpainted models?
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Post by: dakkajet
 fishy bob wrote: Palindrome wrote:blingman wrote:Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.
I state my case clearly, yet you so obviously fail to grasp it's substance, and you additionally resort to base insults which you only get away with due to the anonymity of the internet. Who exactly is the idiot here?
Wow, it took five pages for someone to become the internet tough guy. Gotta be a new record for a thread on the subject of painted vs unpainted models?
Yeah could be. Five pages of insults over!
Now let's get back to topic.
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Post by: Cadichan Support
I got two things commissioned for me. Ezekiel and 5 sniper scouts.
I end up saving money because I:
1) Can't paint banners at all.
2) It's cheaper than buying the paints ($60 (with models) as opposed to $100 (no models))
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Big P wrote:I wonder how people define my situation.
I paint my stuff every evening and paint for PSC once a week for a day ... and l get stuff commissioned!
Simply put it allows me to have another army being done while Im doing one.
I find the thought that there is some sort of stigma attached to buying painted figures a bit ridiculous, but then my whole hobby is funded by selling painted models.
There isn't a stigma.
The original post was not casting aspersions on buying painted figures. His point was that he felt an emotional attachment to his armies because he built and painted them all himself, which increased his enjoyment of the hobby, and he didn't understand why other people wouldn't feel that too.
I agree with the basic attachment point. It is one of the key reasons why tabletop wargames are so popular in a world of instant computer based gaming. Hexmap based games were more or less obliterated by computer games because the emotional factor is not there.
OTOH everyone doesn't feel the emotional connection to the same degree, so lots of people are happy to buy painted figures and there are various practical reasons for doing so.
The only case in which any stigma could be attached is if you claim someone else's work as your own, which is true in any field.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
 plastictrees wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:I reject the entire premise of the OP's question.
Why does there need to be reasoning behind it?
Because he's curious?
Do we need to submit thread topics for peer review prior to starting them now?
Not a bad idea, if only we could get a better class of peer first.
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Post by: Azazelx
I love painting. Have been doing it for decades now. I have playable forces across a dozen game systems, but no "finished" armies, as I'm a slow painter and the rules/army books have a habit of changing on me - so my previously-finished armies are no longer legal and need to be rebuilt/organised - and I hate making army lists. Also I buy way too many figures, so when is something really "finished"? I find time to paint about 3 days a week, and perhaps one or two other evenings, but I'm usually too fethed from work to do anything. I might work on a base for 10 minutes, but unless my mind is in it, I'm not going to wreck a model by painting when I'm not in the right mental state to do a good job of it. Sometimes I'm not in the mindset to paint for weeks. The last break I took was for 2 months. I guess I just wasn't motivated enough.
Maybe some sort of motivational reward system with weekly cash prizes, lap dances and BJs could help me to remain motivated all of the time?
Ahem.
I also have "painting ADHD", which means my desire to paint wanders frequently, and with so many cool models out there, it's easier to get motivated to start on something new and interesting and inspiring than to paint another bloody one of those. Of course, gaming with XYZ is always a good motivator, but I don't have the means to easily travel to the closest gaming venue - and on work nights I need to go home and rest, and on non-work days, I basically can't be arsed giving away a weekend, because I have too many other things to do, which includes sitting on my arse posting on Dakka. (While watching TV, painting, playing computer and Xbox games, interacting with my wife, playing with my cat, working on reports and preparation for my job, gardening, and on and on and on...)
I prefer to play with my own painted figures, and almost everything I own was done by myself, with a couple of specific figures painted by friends. I used to commission paint, but now that I'm older and employed, I don't find the payment is worth the time - got my own stuff to do. I don't judge others based on if they painted their own forces, but of course I do prefer to play against fully painted forces, because it just looks so much nicer, but then again, mine aren't always completely complete, either, so no harm no foul.
I do have to say that it's been amusing reading through this thread to see so many abosolutists, with "I AM RIGHT AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS WRONG, WRONG!!" attitudes, though it's been just as heartening to see quite a lot of people who are more chilled out and sensible. The whole "I'd never play against you!" thing is pretty amusing when seeing it written by people on different continents towards one another, though, because, well, you know....
So yeah, I paint because I enjoy it. I do indeed have a personal connection to the models I've painted, but I don't expect others to do the same, or have anything against those who prefer to play rather than paint (I have several RPG/video game-oriented friends who enjoy playing, but I'm the one who paints and supplies the models, and that's fine by me - it means I get more use out of my models!) I don't have anything against those who pay others to paint, or paint for others, or don't enjoy painting. I wouldn't play against unopened models either, and I think it'd be pretty hard to do so in most games, for that matter - but I can only assume that poster was just being contrary for it's own sake. But hey, you call me an elitist melon-fether and I'll just consider it a compliment, as I am a discerning melon-fether.
And you know what? I probably wouldn't want to play against you, anyway. 
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Post by: PhantomViper
 Azazelx wrote:The whole "I'd never play against you!" thing is pretty amusing when seeing it written by people on different continents towards one another, though, because, well, you know....
Well, not really, we just this past month had the WMH WTC over here in which people from both the US and the EU played together. Of course you not only had to have a fully assembled army to take part in it, the army would have to be fully painted as well, so I'm assuming that carmachu would never take part in one of those because it would be like, super elitist to ask that of your players!
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Post by: Saldiven
PhantomViper wrote: Azazelx wrote:The whole "I'd never play against you!" thing is pretty amusing when seeing it written by people on different continents towards one another, though, because, well, you know....
Well, not really, we just this past month had the WMH WTC over here in which people from both the US and the EU played together. Of course you not only had to have a fully assembled army to take part in it, the army would have to be fully painted as well, so I'm assuming that carmachu would never take part in one of those because it would be like, super elitist to ask that of your players!
There is a world of difference between playing in a competitive even that requires a minimum level of painting and playing in a pickup game.
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Post by: Frank&Stein
I love converting and scratch building. It relaxes me and it's what make me "bond" with my mini's.
On the other hand I absolutely hate painting, I find it to be a chore that adds nothing to the hobby for me. 
So when I have time to hobby I either convert or play.
As you can imagine I have lots of converted yet unpainted models.
If I had the cash I'd love to get them all painted by somebody else.
They would still feel like my mini's as I converted every single one myself.
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Post by: PhantomViper
Saldiven wrote:PhantomViper wrote: Azazelx wrote:The whole "I'd never play against you!" thing is pretty amusing when seeing it written by people on different continents towards one another, though, because, well, you know....
Well, not really, we just this past month had the WMH WTC over here in which people from both the US and the EU played together. Of course you not only had to have a fully assembled army to take part in it, the army would have to be fully painted as well, so I'm assuming that carmachu would never take part in one of those because it would be like, super elitist to ask that of your players!
There is a world of difference between playing in a competitive even that requires a minimum level of painting and playing in a pickup game.
I WAS making a joke, ense the " " at the end of my post...
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Post by: Agamemnon2
For me, painting and converting is all I care about. The game has lost its attraction a long long time ago. And I would still rather chug a gallon of turpentine than agree with some of the paint-fanatic sentiments exhibited here. What gives such people the right? Almost too pathetic to hate. Almost.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
This thread has made me want to commission my next army to be painted. All the armies in my gallery plus 3 or 4 others were painted by me, built by me, played by me but now I want one that isn't done by me. Out of spite.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
 Agamemnon2 wrote:For me, painting and converting is all I care about. The game has lost its attraction a long long time ago. And I would still rather chug a gallon of turpentine than agree with some of the paint-fanatic sentiments exhibited here. What gives such people the right? Almost too pathetic to hate. Almost.
Hey, you! Put down that turpentine and walk away!
There is pretty much one really insanely opinionated painter on this thread, most of us, even the folks that enjoy painting, are being sane and rational beings.
I don't think that I would ever pay somebody else to paint my minis, but since I have been making money painting miniatures for other people, I am not about to start throwing stones.
Heck, I lost the first game of Necromunda that I have played in years, fighting against a gang that I had painted.
The Auld Grump
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Post by: solkan
My secret shame is that some of the models that I've had over the past twenty five years were painted by my brothers. And I've purchased used models without ever bothering to strip them, because once the model arrived I looked at it, said "Meh, good enough," and put it on the table with the rest of my collection.
Or my brother, who has gotten his wife of all people to help in the assembly line painting of a thirty model unit. 
Somehow, I think the "emotional attachment" gets a bit diluted when you're putting, say, fifty to a hundred and fifty models on the table for some games.
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Post by: Herzlos
 solkan wrote:My secret shame is that some of the models that I've had over the past twenty five years were painted by my brothers. And I've purchased used models without ever bothering to strip them, because once the model arrived I looked at it, said "Meh, good enough," and put it on the table with the rest of my collection.
In my case I'll buy stuff that happens to be painted and think "this is better than I'll manage, I'll leave it alone"...
Somehow, I think the "emotional attachment" gets a bit diluted when you're putting, say, fifty to a hundred and fifty models on the table for some games.
Definitely. I like that my 8 Brotherhood figures are painted myself, but I really don't care about my 40 model guard swarm, or the hundreds of 15mm infantry, there's just too many of them.
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Post by: Haight
Your common sense clearly has no place in this thread, sir. Back to the painting table with you until such time that are ready to insist the legions of non-painting visigoths finish their armies and that you shame people with half painted armies into not having the gall to seek a game with their mishappen abominations in various state of primer and base coat !
... joking aside, thanks for a very intelligent, and sensible post in a thread without a lot of them.
In particular i can't get over the "NEEDZ TUH BEE PAINTED" crowd minority that have amended their stance to "NEEDZ TUH BEE PAINTED (BAI YOO!)". That i just don't get.
It basically says if you want nice minis but aren't a good painter, oh well. Which is asinine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azazelx wrote:And you know what? I probably wouldn't want to play against you, anyway.
Just this, a million times this. Anyone who can get up on a soapbox about painting to such a decree as to say they won't play someone who's army is not fully painted - PSSST... news flash... most of us with non or partially painted armies wouldn't want to play you anyway, so no harm no foul. Your refusal to play me isn't a punishment, it's a bonus. I don't like playing uptight people.
-- Haight
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Post by: chromedog
Personally, I will never put an unpainted figure on the table. I don't care if YOU don't (though you should understand I WILL mock you if I face your unpainted metal or plastic horde across the table - but the mockery will be in jest, totes not srs. I don't take this entire hobby seriously.)
I don't care who painted it, though. If I get a 2nd hand model and its paintjob works for me, it goes in the army. If not, it gets stripped and repainted.
I don't get stuff commissioned, though because I'm cheap. I pay enough for these toy soldiers as it is. I don't need to add to the cost of glue and paint by having someone else paint them for me. Besides, that's part of the JOY of this hobby for me. The modelmaking and painting.
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Post by: DouglasJB
Well, I have spent reading these six pages just getting angrier and angrier.
Some people just refuse to think that their life and their use of English and their words are not just their own experience or that they cannot truly judge everyone's available time, by their own thought process.
One guy hijacks this thread with his ridiculous notions, refuses to acknowledge he has hijacked it, refuses the fact that his use of English might just be completely wrong despite being from where he should be a native speaker, acts like a blankety-blank to every person that reasonably points out he is so wrong and just turns this whole thread into a furball.
If that is not hubris personified, then I just know nothing whatsoever!
Have the teenager years, not only filled up the third decade of human existence (the twentyteens), but they also now creep into the fourth decade (the 30s) as well?
I too thought the guy must have been single and no older than twenty at best.
And he claims he is in A-stan doing the job.
I have trouble believing that with what he types.
Any way, I too have a motivation problem evidently.
Let us forget three strokes and their consquences.
Let us put aside a serious injury garnered in American-rules football.
Let us not bother to consider injuries suffered during a venture in the Gulf in the early '90s.
Let us ignore the resulting extremities shaking from high blood pressure resulting from the above and a serious sleep disorder I now have.
Nope, I just have no motivation to paint despite wanting to play with painted armies.
No sirree bob!
I am just a fat and lazy jackaśś that is all about ruining the hobby for everyone else in the world because I just do not have the MOTIVATION to paint my own figures.
Moreover, why should I want to spend time with my wife, my sons, my church, my community, my state and in simple meditation so that I do not burst at the seams over persons like this one!!
No, I am just all unmotivated.
Yep, yep.
His next defense is that my reading comprehension is poor.
Sorry Charlie, I read and understood every last one of your postings, including the massive hubris, overweening pride, behind and through every posting
Fortunately, my wife is better than that and does not believe that of me.
I used to paint all my figures and then I married her, but never got spoiled.
I could tell you all about her experiences at US Games Days, what the folks from GW-UK had to say about her work or how many staffers at GW-US she was painting and converting for before we left but that is needless really.
With my current situation, I can barely design the conversions we do, let alone anything else.
Now it is her that hardly has time to paint because she had to keep all of her family responsibilities taken care of and has to keep up on a goodly number of my own; meanwhile I have nothing but time, but no ability whatsoever left.
Fortunately. I married a kind woman, who is an artist, who spends her days teaching youth art and about art, while still keeping her hand in the art market on Fine Art America, who still takes an interest in her husband's toys for her husband's sake.
I still get wonderful gifts eight times a year though: Valentine's Day, Easter, Father's Day, My Birthday, Our Anniversary, Sweetest Day, Halloween(Samheim) and Christmas.
Beautifully painted figures she does for no one but me.
Love it!
I play less than I did because of, you know, but I have wonderfully painted figures.
Thank you Lori.
So, no, I do not pay others to paint my figures, but I do not do them myself.
My circumstances may be fairly unique.
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Post by: PredaKhaine
 DouglasJB wrote:Well, I have spent reading these six pages just getting angrier and angrier. Some people just refuse to think that their life and their use of English and their words are not just their own experience or that they cannot truly judge everyone's available time, by their own thought process. One guy hijacks this thread with his ridiculous notions, refuses to acknowledge he has hijacked it, refuses the fact that his use of English might just be completely wrong despite being from where he should be a native speaker, acts like a blankety-blank to every person that reasonably points out he is so wrong and just turns this whole thread into a furball. If that is not hubris personified, then I just know nothing whatsoever! Have the teenager years, not only filled up the third decade of human existence (the twentyteens), but they also now creep into the fourth decade (the 30s) as well? I too thought the guy must have been single and no older than twenty at best. Any way, I too have a motivation problem evidently. Let us forget three strokes and their consquences. Let us put aside a serious injury garnered in American-rules football. Let us not bother to consider wounds suffered while serving my country in the Gulf in the early '90s. Let ignore the resulting extremities shaking from high blood pressure resulting from the above and a serious sleep disorder I now have. Nope, I just have no motivation to paint despite wanting to play with painted armies. No sirree bob! I am just a fat and lazy jackaśś that is all about ruining the hobby for everyone else in the world because I just do not have the MOTIVATION to paint my own figures. Moreover, why should I want to spend time with my wife, my sons, my church, my community, my state and in simple meditation so that I do not burst at the seams over persons like this one!! No, I am just all unmotivated. Yep, yep. His next defense is that my reading comprehension is poor. Sorry Charlie, I read and understood every last one of your postings, including the massive hubris, overweening pride, behind and through every posting Fortunately, my wife is better than that and does not believe that of me. I used to paint all my figures and then I married her, but never got spoiled. I could tell you all about her experiences at US Games Days, what the folks from GW- UK had to say about her work or how many staffers at GW-US she was painting and converting for before we left but that is needless really. With my current situation, I can barely design the conversions we do, let alone anything else. Now it is her that hardly has time to paint because she had to keep all of her family responsibilities taken care of and has to keep up on a goodly number of my own; meanwhile I have nothing but time, but no ability whatsoever left. Fortunately. I married a kind woman, who is an artist, who spends her days teaching youth art and about art, while still keeping her hand in the art market on Fine Art America, who still takes an interest in her husband's toys for her husband's sake. I still get wonderful gifts eight times a year though: Valentine's Day, Easter, Father's Day, My Birthday, Our Anniversary, Sweetest Day, Halloween(Samheim) and Christmas. Beautifully painted figures she does for no one but me. Love it! I play less than I did because of, you know, but I have wonderfully painted figures. Thank you Lori. So, no, I do not pay others to paint my figures, but I do not do them myself. My circumstances may be fairly unique.
There's no need to get angry that someone has a different definition on motivation to you. I personally don't get why people are reacting that way to the word motivation - I guess its an american/ uk thing again. Like having to remember to use the word eraser(us english) instead of rubber( uk english) I don't paint. I admit I have no motivation to paint. If someone tells me I have no motivation, its just not something to get worked up about. There are things I'd rather do with my time that I am more motivated to accomplish. These are the things I do. If someone has motivation (wants to paint), but not the time to paint, then they are more motivated towards achieving other goals - if they were motivated more to paint (for example, I stood behind them with a big stick, hitting them when they stoppped painting) then they would get more painting done and the rest of that persons life may suffer because they now have more painted miniatures. For EG, the kids may now be hungry... I am lucky in that I get an hour a day when I get in from work to relaxe - I play computer games to relaxe. I am motivated towards playing computer games, not painting. I don't know how saying someone isn't motivated to have a painted army is an insult. PS:My wife paints, so I'm living the dream - fully painted 40k armies, done to a higher standard than I could do, while I get to play games
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Post by: DouglasJB
Simple PK, it was his tone and his insistence despite facts being presented that countermanded his mindset.
Over the years, I have had diminishing resources when it comes to stupidity and pride.
Probably more the mileage than the age though.
My life 20+ years ago was massively changed due to a person who appears to be like this fellow.
That change was unwelcomed, unexpected and unwarranted.
So there might be a rather LARGE sore spot when it comes the people like this person PK.
Thank you though for the well intended advice PK.
I do appreciate it.
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Post by: PredaKhaine
DouglasJB wrote:
My life 20+ years ago was massively changed due to a person who appears to be like this fellow.
That change was unwelcomed, unexpected and unwarranted.
So there might be a rather LARGE sore spot when it comes the people like this person PK.
What happened?
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Post by: DouglasJB
Read my "deer" thread.
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Post by: FinnSeer
It is how this kind of topic ends up with people saying that the guy with different opinion is wrong while the whole topic is completely subjective.
I already stated in my two posts that these are only my opinions and not any guidelines to hobby. (Well who would even want those or think that anyone could enforce them?)
As I clearly stated that this is not the way everyone should get their vibes from the hobby, I find it rather unfair, that instead of creative discussion people start to dig up trenchlines in where to fight the final battle of their crusade of righteousness and even in some (although rare) cases start throwing insults aimed at the personality of others.
This goes to both "sides" of the issue.
My sincere reason for opening up this discussion was to have creative discussion about the topic and to bring hobbyists closer to each other but apparently I have failed in my attempt.
In my glossary I don't understand is not a synonym for I hate or anything negative at all. It just simply means that I don't understand something, which also means that if someone would explain me, I might understand.
I assume that during some stages of human evolution, hating everything that was not understood was an essential way of surviving, but we don't need it anymore. You can't die to someone disagreeing you on the Internet, so why to heat up?
-
As for the topic, I can admit that I lack motivation to paint sometimes, which leads me to spend those 30 minutes per day to something else. Priorities rise from our desires and needs, so you really shouldn't have something at your top priority that you are not motivated to do or it might lead to all kinds of problems. As our desires and needs change periodically hence you end up having your priorities and motivation to fluctuate during your life from time to time, which is normal for humans.
Why should anyone try to keep their shining image of the Paragon of the Hobby and claim that wargaming is their top priority of ther life and then try to give excuses why they do not act as their priorities all the time.
There are just plenty of more things to explore and enjoy as being human and our short journey here might be more pleasant if we don't try to physically or mentally headbutt everyone that disagrees with us.
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Post by: DouglasJB
Finn Seer, you simply stepped on a raw nerve that has been a wound since at least the early '90s in the GW hobby.
Some use their paint skills to feel better about themselves than their peers.
Some use their pocketbooks to feel superior in the particular models they own, the number of the total models they own and in the paint job on their models they paid for than their peers.
You simply ripped off the bandage on this wound, ONCE AGAIN, and the collected puss since last time all poured out.
Finn Seer, you could have brought this up with only a group of 8-10 gamers somewhere and gotten the very selfsame result.
It is the core wound in our hobby.
And it will NEVER heal as long as persons use this argument to feel more righteous, more powerful, more elite, more of a true GW Hobbyist than others.
I am pretty sure I have more figures now than most, but definitely I had more than most GW hobbyists when I left GW in the late '90s because I took full advantage of the employee discounts back in the day.
I simply got a whole lot more bang for my buck and so I had nearly two tons of metal figures, not including the many pounds of paper, cardstock and plastic I possessed when I left.
I was not better than anybody; I just worked where I could have far more figures for the very same money than lots of folks.
Hopefully Finn Seer, you have used this experience to better understand the people in our hobby, to better understand yourself and can now understand how to have a better time when playing GW games with others.
If you have not, then this entire thread you started has been a total waste of electrons, contention, memory and discord.
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Post by: Tsilber
I think some people enjoy the game more than the hobby, me being one of them. I play and win at tourneys and sometimes the hatorade pours in, "he may have won, but he doesnt even have a fully painted army".
I truly do not let it bother me, but perhaps some people just buy painted models to quell un-easy eyes at games.
I do have parts of my armies painted. Thing is, i might not be the best painter. But for me, i like it and if I am going to take the time to paint, its one model at a time. layers, washes and to best of my ability. I cant put $100's of dollars worth of models together and then just fast paint, or drybrush an army that in my opinion wont look good. (not to say to others it would or would not look good). But to me, id rather play with plastic or primed and take years to paint instead of rushing a paint job... But i am also my own worst critic, something that looks great to others that i paint, i might repaint 3 times to get to the way i like it, which may or may not look like trash to others when im done lol.
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Post by: MagickalMemories
FinnSeer wrote:I have noticed that there is a trend forming in the community where plenty of people buy their figures pre-painted or commission the painting for someone else.
Personally I don't understand this at all.
I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.
On the other hand, I've noticed a trend forming where plenty of people buy their food pre-cooked from restaurants.
Do you think these people have the same "connection" to the food as a housewife who makes it herself?
My confusion is in the "connection" part. I don't understand how some people think that you need to feel a "connection" to your models to enjoy the game. To a degree, I don't give a spit about the models (barring financially, of course). They're just *things.* They're inanimate objects. They're shaped chunks of plastic. There is no emotion tied into them (for me).
They're a means to an end, and the "End" is enjoying a game with some buddies.
Now, I LIKE the way painted models look (usually), sure. I paint some and buy others prepainted. The fact is that I don't have time to paint 1/10th of my models.
Eric
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Post by: Saldiven
I agree with your take on the "connection" part. I've never been a person that develops a real connection to inanimate objects unless they have a serious sentimental value. (Examples: my deceased mother's wedding set, my college sheepskin, the picture a friend painted for me as a gift.)
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Post by: Smacks
I don't think that you have dislike anything about painting your own miniatures, to be able to enjoy someone else's work, and want to own it. In the same way that I play guitar, but still enjoy other people's music, and I have other peoples artwork hanging on my wall, even though I work as an artist.
I have often thought about finding two commission painters, who's work I really enjoy, and getting them to convert and paint a custom Space Marine team each for Space Crusade (Ultra Marines and Imperial Fists respectively). I would do the 3rd team myself (Blood Angels). My reasoning is not because I'm lazy or incapable. I just think it would be really cool for each team to be individual, and painted in a unique style.
If anyone comments on the paint job, I would be proud to tell them that these two teams were painted on commission by my favorite artists, and this one was painted by me. And hopefully, if everyone did their best, I like to think that no team would stand out as being significantly better or worse.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Saldiven wrote:I agree with your take on the "connection" part. I've never been a person that develops a real connection to inanimate objects unless they have a serious sentimental value. (Examples: my deceased mother's wedding set, my college sheepskin, the picture a friend painted for me as a gift.)
It just means that some people's sense of sentimental attachment activates more easily than yours.
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Post by: Azazelx
Saldiven wrote:I agree with your take on the "connection" part. I've never been a person that develops a real connection to inanimate objects unless they have a serious sentimental value. (Examples: my deceased mother's wedding set, my college sheepskin, the picture a friend painted for me as a gift.)
The connection (for me) is mostly a form of "I did that" - a somewhat constant reminder (when I see them) of what is (mostly, hopefully) pride in a job well done. It's one of the reasons we share photos of our decorated inanimate objects. Some figures also remind me of certain times or events or even people in my life, some who have moved on and some who have passed on.
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Post by: Eilif
I definitely am a person that prefers to do my own painting of miniatures. It personalizes them as being my own. I detest playing with unpainted minis and belong to a club where it is not allowed.
Perhaps more importantly I also find that much camaraderie among gamers can come from asking each other about their miniatures, conversions, and paint schemes. Discussing a person's minis isn't the same when they didn't paint themselves. There's just not much to talk about.
All that said, I have made exceptions.
-Once in a while I buy miniatures that are come painted. When they arrive it seems a shame to waste the nice paintjob, especially when I have so many other figures to paint. So, they usually get a dip or wash and maybe a touchup or rebasing and hit the table.
-I sometimes trade painting with my club mates. I like making terrain and have gotten pretty fast at it. So recently I rebuilt and painted a friend's chemical plant and in return he's painting 20 chaos warriors for me. The first 10 warriors I painted were fine, but I'm more than happy to have him paint the next 20!
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Post by: Khan Raider
I still push on trying, despite being dysgraphic. (the fine motor controls are messed up- I have the handwriting of a doctor.)
To each their own.
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Post by: Herzlos
 Eilif wrote:I definitely am a person that prefers to do my own painting of miniatures. It personalizes them as being my own. I detest playing with unpainted minis and belong to a club where it is not allowed.
I'd hate that, and in our club it'd probably result in about half of the games not happening. But it seems pretty laid back (and almost all 30somethings with plenty of other commitments). I always aim to get stuff painted, or to be making progress on them in campaign games (we're in the 3rd and final month of a FoW campaign and my newly bought army is probably only about 30% completed, but based and primed), but the painting comes secondary to the gaming.
It's different for skirmish games where I can get the 8 figures up to a tabletop standard in a couple of evenings, but with a horde army (my FoW army has ~105 minis + guns) it's a whole different challenge.
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Post by: Eilif
Herzlos wrote: Eilif wrote:I definitely am a person that prefers to do my own painting of miniatures. It personalizes them as being my own. I detest playing with unpainted minis and belong to a club where it is not allowed.
I'd hate that, and in our club it'd probably result in about half of the games not happening. But it seems pretty laid back (and almost all 30somethings with plenty of other commitments). I always aim to get stuff painted, or to be making progress on them in campaign games (we're in the 3rd and final month of a FoW campaign and my newly bought army is probably only about 30% completed, but based and primed), but the painting comes secondary to the gaming.
It's different for skirmish games where I can get the 8 figures up to a tabletop standard in a couple of evenings, but with a horde army (my FoW army has ~105 minis + guns) it's a whole different challenge.
You probably wouldn't hate it too much, as almost all we play is skirmish games, and we always keep extra forces on hand for newbies. A few of us play larger games ( KoW, Panzer8 sci-fi, 40k) occasionally, but it's not the norm. Our group age and vibe sounds like yours. Alot of 30 somethings with real lives. The only difference is we all decided that life is too short to spend our limited bi-weekly gaming time playing with unpainted figures.
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Post by: Herzlos
Ours has a mix of some larger games, though it's mostly skirmish too. I think we just decided life was too short to worry about painting figures
Having extra forces on hand is pretty good too
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Post by: Eilif
Herzlos wrote:Ours has a mix of some larger games, though it's mostly skirmish too. I think we just decided life was too short to worry about painting figures
Having extra forces on hand is pretty good too
Sounds like you've got a nice group of folks over there. If you're ever in Chicago, you're welcome at our tables!
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Post by: Herzlos
Many thanks. I don't think I'll be that far West in the US though. The same offer is open to you if you're through this way.
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Post by: doc1234
Don't really mind unpainted personally. Don't always feel motivated and anxiety attacks aren't really constructive to be working on I'd rather leave it blank and come back later, or much later than try to do it now, mess it up due to reasons and most likely spend the next day or two feeling gak about everything in general. That and it's generally Play > Paint for me. If it comes to money for hobby supplies or a new rulebook, i'll go rulebook thanks
As for the other peoples work bit, why is it a problem? Got a friend who's been painting 10+ years compared to my 1-2 who often "helps" most of us with the group, and I have a wonderfully painted and converted metal Inquisitor courtesy of a another friend I commissioned simply due to his work being better than mine and it being one of the few GW model's I felt that I genuinely liked enough to go out and buy, Didn't feel like I could do it justice, but he could and did and now it sits on my desk to see instead of in a storage box like most all my other mini's.
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Post by: Jimsolo
My absolute favorite part of the game is when someone comes up and tells my opponent and I how cool our armies look. Nothing better than having a force that looks so awesome it draws comments from the crowd.
To that end, commissioned pieces are just as good (let's be honest-given my painting skill, commissioned work is better) at accomplishing this.
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Post by: MagickalMemories
Don't take insult here; it's not intended...
MY favorite part of the game is kicking back and spending time with my friends. I don't really care what people think of my armies.
Eric
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
I think that the typical reasoning goes as follows;
I like to play [Insert Game Here] > Painted miniatures look better > I do not have the [Time / Skill / Desire] (Select Appropriate) to paint miniatures (Alternately - that many miniatures) > Buy painted miniatures > I now have painted miniatures! > They do look better painted! (Optional - > And they look better than [Insert Name Of Rival With Painted Army]'s miniatures!)
Being the guy that has that unpainted army is motivation enough for a lot of folks to buy a painted one.
I just finished a small pile of Stonehaven Gnomes - not for wargaming, but because somebody wants to run an all gnome Pathfinder game.
She is the GM, and wants to provide all the miniatures, because otherwise some folks won't have painted miniatures.
Plus, she likes gnomes.
The Auld Grump, my girlfriend also likes the gnomes, but is painting her own.
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Post by: stubacca
For me, I don't have enough time to paint to a standard I like, and I've kinda fallen out of love with 40k. I wanna play more games but I don't have enough time away from work/family life to build up and paint an army
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Post by: GiraffeX
I love to paint, there are so many lovely models out there that I'd like to caress with my paintbrush
But because I put my painting first I don't have time or motivation to play all the games I want to paint models for so I paint them up and sell them on ebay. It's a win win situation for me I get to paint all the nice models and sell them to fund more nice models to paint. In turn people who dont/cant paint get to buy nicely painted models to play with which they would not have had a chance to otherwise.
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Post by: pities2004
I was born without arms so painting is impossible for me
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Post by: dakkajet
This is one of the most straight foward excuses on the thread. But what about robotic arms??
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Post by: Saldiven
 MagickalMemories wrote:Don't take insult here; it's not intended...
MY favorite part of the game is kicking back and spending time with my friends. I don't really care what people think of my armies.
Eric
Yeah, this is my favorite part, too.
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Post by: kronk
Out of curiosity, how did you type that? Some sort of speak and type device?
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Post by: DouglasJB
I know because of my disabilities that I sometimes have to use a headset mic and Dragon Naturally Speaking to get my typing done when the pain gets too severe.
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Post by: BaconUprising
If you suck at painting and enjoy playing with a decently painted army (plus don't have the time and money to spend learning to paint) then I can totally understand it. Personally I would only commission someone else to do it if their skill is really very exceptional otherwise to me it's not really worth it...
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Post by: Lutharr101
cos im lazy and loaded.
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Post by: Eilif
Gotta love a bit of honesty.
Truth be told, if I had the disposable income, there's an army or two sitting in my lead pile that I'd probably have professionally painted. For Example, I'd love to have my 180 man Kingdoms of Man (for KoW) army painted now, but I've got other projects, already am working on a KoW army, and just don't get more than a few chances a year to play KoW. If I had the $ it would be out the door for painting.
Maybe I should research painting services...
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Post by: carmachu
Just out of curiosity, how do you move minis?
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Post by: Azazelx
Not sure if serious.
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Telekinesis. Clearly.
And if I could afford to have my King's Hand professionally painted, you bet I would. Because with the amount of detail and my limited range of paints/brushes/skills, I could never do the model justice.
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Post by: Farseer Faenyin
I don't mind painting, but my skills are terribly inadequate. I barely have time to play a game once every week or two weeks, let alone paint, let alone watch videos on how to paint better.
That being said, I still painted most of my models, but wouldn't think twice about having somebody do them if I had the income to do so.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
 gunslingerpro wrote:
Telekinesis. Clearly.
And if I could afford to have my King's Hand professionally painted, you bet I would. Because with the amount of detail and my limited range of paints/brushes/skills, I could never do the model justice.
Is this a Game of Thrones model? If so do you have a link, my interest is piqued!
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Post by: -Loki-
OverwatchCNC wrote: gunslingerpro wrote:
Telekinesis. Clearly.
And if I could afford to have my King's Hand professionally painted, you bet I would. Because with the amount of detail and my limited range of paints/brushes/skills, I could never do the model justice.
Is this a Game of Thrones model? If so do you have a link, my interest is piqued!
Dark Sword miniatures has a huge range of models based on the novels, rather than the series.
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Post by: Eilif
 -Loki- wrote: OverwatchCNC wrote:
Is this a Game of Thrones model? If so do you have a link, my interest is piqued!
Dark Sword miniatures has a huge range of models based on the novels, rather than the series.
This.
http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/shop/index.php/miniatures/george-r-r-martin-masterworks.html
They don't look like the TV series charachters, but they are really beautiful models, most of which sculpted by by the incredibly talented Tom Meier (on whose sculpting Ral Partha was built). A touch higher per foot figure than what I usually pay, but really not overpriced consdiering the quality and when compared to GW, Privateer press, etc.
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Awesome! Thanks guys.
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Post by: chromedog
The same reason I'd use professionals to do work like plumbing and electrical and to fix the car.
Some people are better at stuff I choose not to do.
Do I get looked down upon for not knowing car stuff? (I'm male, I'm suppose to know this stuff. Like it's genetically hardwired or something. I don't.)
Yep. Do I care? Not a jot.
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Post by: marielle
Saldiven wrote:I agree with your take on the "connection" part. I've never been a person that develops a real connection to inanimate objects unless they have a serious sentimental value. (Examples: my deceased mother's wedding set, my college sheepskin, the picture a friend painted for me as a gift.)
Which rather nullifies the point the OP was making. As I presume you had no part on in making any of these objects.
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