So, as frustrating as it could be for some of us who can't/won't spend 200ish dollars on new models, GW officially decided to allow super-heavies in any games WITHOUT the requirement of a mutual agreement.

I think the gaming meta will definitely shift, at least in my gaming store, to a you-have/kill-super heavy, you win, situation. So my big question for the day is: how to kill a super heavy?

This is my Tau army ATM:

O'Vesa star
Farsight DS w/ 3 TL plasma suits
Skyray
Another riptide
20 Kroots in 2 units
1 lone flamer suit for objectives

Now this is a pretty competitive list in my area, and it has served me pretty well for the most part in my last week or so. But today the super-heavy list my opponent used torn me a new one right away. He was playing guards with a baneblade. During first turn it was night fight and so I survived with my deathstar relatively unharmed, I took off 3 hull points off his beast and that was it. We played the objective mission where all the objectives gave you armourbane, if it weren't for that I'd fail even harder. After turn 2 all I had left was my last riptide which was out of LOS and 1 unit of kroots somewhere in cover trying really hard to survive pretty much everything else he had in 1500pt other than the baneblade.

So this really makes me feel terrible, and to make matters worse Baneblade weapons weren't strengh D! Can you imagine what an eldar titan can do to an army?!

Enough of my rant, here's what I'd like to hear from dakka; what would you do to take down these monsters who don't belong in normal games?

At the end my plan is to drop a kroot unit, drop the lone flamer dude, drop stim on my other riptide, and then have 3 melta suits that will kind of help with my cause and make my all comer army pretty viable for taking on super heavies as well. And in 2000pt I'm adding my Tau version of the Aquila Stronghold because...well...

*Bonus cookies if you get where the quote is from, its quite easy* "To fight monsters, we created monsters of our own."

Cheers dakka, happy wargaming!

Well, for my Sisters, I am not changing my plan all that much. I've got two outflanking Dominion squads packed with meltaguns.

All in all, I'm honestly not too scared of superheavies, I don't think that they will obliterate the game unless they are played by pricks, but let's be honest, they would ruin the game no matter what they had. <shrug>

For most supeheavies, things like Baneblades and Stompas, you'll deal with the the same way you'd deal with a squadron of Leman Russ tanks. Same HP count, roughly same firepower, roughly same armor.

Wings of Purity wrote:
So my big question for the day is: how to kill a super heavy?

Melta, melta, and more melta. Drop Farsight with a squad of dual-melta suits behind the Baneblade and it dies in one turn.

Also, railsharks are your friend.

Wings of Purity wrote:
So, as frustrating as it could be for some of us who can't/won't spend 200ish dollars on new models, GW officially decided to allow super-heavies in any games WITHOUT the requirement of a mutual agreement.

Honestly, believing that was your first mistake. All you had to do was say, "No thanks, but I'm not prepared (or don't want) to play against a superheavy, some other time, then." All games, by their very nature, are subject to mutual agreement.

Anyway, moving on. Sounds like you just had really bad luck. What would you do if you were faced with three Leman Russ Battle Tanks, two Land Raiders, or two Wraithknights?

Unless they are immune to glances, haywire grenades and dark lances for my DE.

Powerklaws for my Orks.

Plagueblades and MCs for my daemons.



As tau, meltaspam should work.

Are you really asking for sympathy when you run multiple Riptides and spam plasma Tau?

Try taking fusion.

Also quote is from Pacific Rim, i think

Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:Are you really asking for sympathy when you run multiple Riptides and spam plasma Tau?

Try taking fusion.

I am the bad guy here am I not? But I guess taking that beating was a lesson well deserved!

Ascalam wrote:Also quote is from Pacific Rim, i think

You got it!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Wings of Purity wrote:
So, as frustrating as it could be for some of us who can't/won't spend 200ish dollars on new models, GW officially decided to allow super-heavies in any games WITHOUT the requirement of a mutual agreement.

Honestly, believing that was your first mistake. All you had to do was say, "No thanks, but I'm not prepared (or don't want) to play against a superheavy, some other time, then." All games, by their very nature, are subject to mutual agreement.

Anyway, moving on. Sounds like you just had really bad luck. What would you do if you were faced with three Leman Russ Battle Tanks, two Land Raiders, or two Wraithknights?

I've had problems with Leman Russ tanks, 4 of them I think. But they were alright since HBC had good rolls, same with my Nova charged IA, and they are only ap3. Haven't faced Wraithknights but I would expect them to be problems too. Meltas really seem to be the solution.

So it seems like IA:2 2nd Edition already has the super-heavy stuff listed as lords of war - presumably FW will be giving everything else the same treatment. That means you can take a Typhon Heavy Siege Tank, with AV14 on all sides, a 7" blast s10ap1 no cover weapon, and it can buy Melta immunity for 20 points (assuming they haven't changed the rules, I haven't seen much of the new book yet). This ought to handily crush just about anything that isn't strength D, aside from maybe lots of wraithguard/wraithknights for the S10 spam. It can also ram at S10 AP2 no matter how far it moved, which is kind of neat - if not particularly useful. It only has 6 hull points, but you could quite easily have a techmarine or two hide behind it and just crush everything with that massive gun. Of course, strength D will smash it same as it smashes anything else, but there's not much you can do about that. The only super-heavy that doesn't fear SD too much is the Revenant, and it's already much better than anything anyone else can take. Oh, and if you want to keep it cheap, the base tank with armoured ceramite is less than 400 points, which gives you plenty of space to support it even in games of less than 2k.

I don't see the issue as dealing with SHs as much as dealing with the GCs. SHs are pretty easy honestly - melta, gauss, haywire, mass S8 etc can all do a decent job against the SHs in the book. Against the C'tan or Harridan though, what do you do? Just look at the C'tan, as that's the one I have the most experience with: it's T9 W6 3+/4++ and moves 12" per turn (18" with transliminal slide, though it can't charge after that). Even ignoring to hit rolls and assuming you've got AP2 guns, all your stuff is 1/6 chance to wound at best, then 1/2 chance to be saved, then 2/3 chance that any unsaved wounds go through FNP. That means that if you autohit with all your guns and they're all S7 AP2, you still need 108 shots to kill it. Should they be automatically hitting rail cannons, that's still 27 S10 AP1 shots. If you take sniper kroot (which only wound on 6), then you need 216 shots if they're unbuffed. Pretty ridiculous when it will tear your units apart with Str D hellstorms and whichever other power they pick. I have no idea how to deal with them outside of Str D.

Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

You are forgetting drop pods, only wıth a 12" scatter you are out of melta range. Or reroll scatter stormtroopers, or legion of the damned, or zoanthrope myscetıc spore drop although these are not non-scatter they are reliable.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

You are forgetting drop pods, only wıth a 12" scatter you are out of melta range. Or reroll scatter stormtroopers, or legion of the damned, or zoanthrope myscetıc spore drop although these are not non-scatter they are reliable.

How am I "forgetting" anything when I specificly mention non-scatter? It's much easier to defend against conventional Deep Strikers (including Drop Pods) because you more or less don't have to bubble-wrap the back of the Super Heavy if you're close enough to the table edge. With non-scatter you've got to make sure that there's absolutely no holes at all for the enemy to exploit, which is harder.

ok we will just roll over and die to them then or drop the conventıonal drop units and take the risk. Although non scatter puts the opponent into a tighter spot, you have to bubble wrap against any scatter.

In our apoc battles, we usually have about 6 to 10 Baneblades. They go down pretty easily by stipping off hull points. These tanks are also not very durable in cc. You have to take precautions that the enemy cannot easily reach them.

I honestly think it's not how well you can alpha strike against it, but rather how do you stand up to super heavy shooting before you go in for the kill. Sure deep striking meltas are ridiculously effective against a 500pt model, but again it is quite hard to accomplish if you don't have anything else supporting them; after all your opponent is bound to have 1000pt of things that can kill these guys, and if the baneblade/eldar titan/cobra or anything like that kills a whole bunch before you can make that drop....what do you do?

And on the other note, Farsight w/3 melta suits won't be able to kill a 9 hull pt model unless I get really lucky. Sure a Farsight bomb works better, but I'd have to sacrifice O'Vesa for that, but I'm not sure if that's ideal.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
Destroyed the Khorne Lord of Skulls w/ Farsight and 3 Fusion Suits deep striking w/o Scatter. It's pretty easy.

How many models that can bring others with melta along for a non-scatter Deep Strike is there in the game? I can think of two: Dante and Farsight. That's like saying it's pretty easy to kill Ork boyz with a Furioso Dreadnought; you just charge them!

You are forgetting drop pods, only wıth a 12" scatter you are out of melta range. Or reroll scatter stormtroopers, or legion of the damned, or zoanthrope myscetıc spore drop although these are not non-scatter they are reliable.

How am I "forgetting" anything when I specificly mention non-scatter? It's much easier to defend against conventional Deep Strikers (including Drop Pods) because you more or less don't have to bubble-wrap the back of the Super Heavy if you're close enough to the table edge. With non-scatter you've got to make sure that there's absolutely no holes at all for the enemy to exploit, which is harder.

You can't really be "close to the table edge" with the Khorne Lord of Skulls. You need to move forward. You should also bubble rap SuperHeavies because of ALL deep strikers. Not just Farsight/Dante or even things that can reroll scatter.

Generally for tau you have 2 options.

Long range - hammerheads
Short range - crisis suits with 2x fusion guns

Both are good options, one good against a superheavy that is being completely walled up and protected, the other good vs an exposed super heavy.

How can anyone deepstrike melta it if its simply bubblewrapped?

My plan for my GK/BA list with minimum models is to shunt my dreadknights and use my geavy incinerators to clear out the chaff if necessary, then drop dante with meltas on the heavy.

My nids are taking mawlocs to burrow and come up under the heavy... if it's wrapped and can't be placed it'll just be dead I guess

Necron player, here.
A Royal Court Disco Inferno™ with 1x Despair-tek with Veil and 4x Storm-teks should work okay.
Stands a very decent chance to remove practically any enemy Super Heavy for the paltry cost 160 points. (Turn 1 alpha strike possible, too).
But as someone else pointed out, the REAL problem for us is going to be those Gargantuan Creatures... might just have to stoop to their level and fight fire with fire (at least I won't have to pay a fortune on a new model, as a normal C'tan model can fill the role of the super C'tan in a pinch).

I don't yet own the supplement. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what heavies c:sm have access to?

Cheers

Jamo wrote:
I don't yet own the supplement. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what heavies c:sm have access to?

Cheers

Thunderhawk. Nothing else.

Is that it? Ripped off. Can't afford it.

Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

The super heavies are excellent Deathstar killers. They are the supreme Deathstar. There inclusion would spell the end to the Deathstar army as we know it. It forces current deathstars to divide their power among several other units and not concentrate it in a lone indestructible unit.

A chance to field some fw heavies is pretty cool.

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

At the moment, the only super heavies includable in a normal 40k game are the one's in escalation. These you can just bring if you feel like.

Until FW make some lords of war faq's that is

Edit for accuracy's sake on reading the post beneath - And the new IA sm book

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

The most recent IA book lists the superheavies as lords of war. Currently only the space marines have the full variety, but there will almost certainly be some sort of update soon to give everyone access to their stuff. It's just a matter of waiting for the updates to come out. That does mean the Phantom will eventually be 40k legal (presumably) but given the nerf it got in the most recent apocalypse book and the crazy high points cost I doubt it will see much play. It isn't more than twice as good a Revenant unless your opponent is relying on void shields to protect his stuff. Speaking of void shields, once the Cobra gets converted to a lord of war anyone relying on them is going to get a rude awakening. Not only is it a 10" D blast that ignores void shields, it's a vortex weapon, so it can potentially persist and deny access to an objective or fortification.

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

The most recent IA book lists the superheavies as lords of war. Currently only the space marines have the full variety, but there will almost certainly be some sort of update soon to give everyone access to their stuff. It's just a matter of waiting for the updates to come out. That does mean the Phantom will eventually be 40k legal (presumably) but given the nerf it got in the most recent apocalypse book and the crazy high points cost I doubt it will see much play. It isn't more than twice as good a Revenant unless your opponent is relying on void shields to protect his stuff. Speaking of void shields, once the Cobra gets converted to a lord of war anyone relying on them is going to get a rude awakening. Not only is it a 10" D blast that ignores void shields, it's a vortex weapon, so it can potentially persist and deny access to an objective or fortification.

The cobra got nerfed - it's only a 7" pie plate now...

 skoffs wrote:
But as someone else pointed out, the REAL problem for us is going to be those Gargantuan Creatures.

As Necrons, I would think that mindshackle scarabs would be your friend against those. From what battle reports that have come out, it looks like a very viable tactic is to use things like puppet master/hallucination to neutralize a super-heavy or turn it against your opponent.

For GK, I've come up with:
Deepstriking a paladin squad with 4 psycannons, attach an ordo malleus inquisitor with psycannon. Depending on rear armor psybolts might be good too. Lots of points though.
Dropping purifiers or purgation squad (4 psycannons) w/attached inquisitor out of a storm raven, going for rear armor.
Acolytes can take 3 meltaguns per unit.
Dreadknights, if you can catch it/avoid the D-weapons.
Orbital Strikes
Lots of storm ravens.

I'm really hoping to see something along the lines of a vortex grenade...Something added to basic 40k army to specifically take down super heavies, that'd make the game fair-er so we don't all get D-ed first turn and shake hands.

Dark Eldar has the superior weaponry against gargantuan creatures and Necrons have the superiority against super heavies. But for other races I think other than deep strike there isn't a single unit that can last on the table before being able to strike back(assuming you don't get first turn. Tactically always prepare for the worst!)

Honestly I don't see the fuss.

Even the "unkillable" revenant, when shot on melta range at BS4 from the front/side will take a pen result (after the holo field) you will pen it with 10/36 shots, and glace 1/36 shots.
Not amazing, but not shabby. and as a pen with AP1 got 1/2 to get "explode" result (1d3 more glaces) means you got, on average, out of 36 shots a grand total of 21 hull point stripped (and 5/36 "immobilized" or "weapon destroyed" results)

Now 21 hull points in 36 shots (not hits, SHOTS) translates to that you need about 15 melta shots to kill it. not easy, but doable over a game.
Not easy with melta-but remember its only front 12, and rear 10. even lighter guns CAN contribute a few glances to help the cause.
And if you managed to get some melta in the rear, the numbers go even higher to 54 hull points in 36 shots, that's about 6 melta shots required for an average takedown.
Again, SHOTS, not hits. a single squad of drop-pod sternguard with combi-meltas should OVERkill it in one volly if they hit it in the rear.
A team of 3 fusion suits and a fusion commander (or support commander) should achieve the same results.


And if something with haywire, or anything else that features large numbers of high-S attacks managed to get into CC, its also good as gone.
Sure, your assault termies are unlikely to survive the experience, but its still a 250ish point unit that got a good chance of killing alone a 900 points one.

Just drop the expensive units who are expected to pull the army, and start running individualistic units that are expected to cause much damage, but ever expected to survive.
Use your early units to clear out any bubble wrap, deep strike anti-tank guns, and take it out.

People panic because they didn't do the math.
Math-wise, it can be one-shot by units quarter its cost if dedicated for the job. and a balanced army should have no massive issue with it except it's high damage output. (who can be cut down by running MSU units who are not individually worth alot)

Honestly? the screamer/ovesa stars are HARDER to kill, much harder.
They don't do quite as much damage. but they got no such clear solutions. I'd rather face a superheavy then them any day.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Now 21 hull points in 36 shots (not hits, SHOTS) translates to that you need about 15 melta shots to kill it. not easy, but doable over a game.

I'm not sure about your math, but I'll trust it for the sake of argument. The issue with the revenant is that if you don't kill it in one turn, it will jump out of range of your melta and nuke them with D weapons. Or just ignore them, and paste the rest of your army. Yes, there are ways to fight things like this, but the issue is always going to be surviving until you can get that killer blow. There's also bubble wrap, interceptor, and terrain.

The issue people have is that a D weapon has a 5/6 chance to one-shot any vehicle. You don't get any saves against it, and it requires highly specialized units to fight it. It turns the game into "kill the super-heavy" which is not very diverse. You can't camp on objectives when there are large blast weapons that ignore all saves shooting at you.

Yes there are many ways to kill super-heavies, and there are many less worrisome than the revenant. But, I think the concern is justified.

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

Not sure if this is true.

Those are not escalation units, those are FW Units.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Now 21 hull points in 36 shots (not hits, SHOTS) translates to that you need about 15 melta shots to kill it. not easy, but doable over a game.

I'm not sure about your math, but I'll trust it for the sake of argument. The issue with the revenant is that if you don't kill it in one turn, it will jump out of range of your melta and nuke them with D weapons. Or just ignore them, and paste the rest of your army. Yes, there are ways to fight things like this, but the issue is always going to be surviving until you can get that killer blow. There's also bubble wrap, interceptor, and terrain.

The issue people have is that a D weapon has a 5/6 chance to one-shot any vehicle. You don't get any saves against it, and it requires highly specialized units to fight it. It turns the game into "kill the super-heavy" which is not very diverse. You can't camp on objectives when there are large blast weapons that ignore all saves shooting at you.

Yes there are many ways to kill super-heavies, and there are many less worrisome than the revenant. But, I think the concern is justified.

That's the beuty of it, the rundown is under the assumption you got melta, and melta alone.
Not even a single S7 gun to be found in the entire list.

Once you factor in S7 guns, S6 guns, and rear-shooting S5 guns, the revenant collapses quickly.

And should hit run 36" away from the melta?
Let him. I'll deepstrike another unit to hurt him.
Or use the ranged AT to finish off what's left of him.

He can 1-shot any tank? yep. even 2 of them per turn.
But that's still not half his cost. and I can one-shoot him with dedicated AT deepstriking melta for approximately 200 points with multiple armies.
And the others can usually bring jets who can ruin his day.
Only a few armies really struggle to find ANY answer, and these armies are the ones currently broken down and in serious need of patching as it is.

I'm not saying they will be pushovers, I'm saying they got answers, and said answers are available all over.
And in turn they give an answer to the pesky "rerollable 2++" deathstars.

If you play escalation, you pretty much have to use the new warlord traits. No scatter deep strike withing 6" of a Lord of War? Armorbane and fleshbane against one? Yeah, those are incredibly useful.

 McNinja wrote:
If you play escalation, you pretty much have to use the new warlord traits. No scatter deep strike withing 6" of a Lord of War? Armorbane and fleshbane against one? Yeah, those are incredibly useful.

Considering that as a Necron player, I don't have any Warlord traits outside of Imperial Armor, I'm ok with that.

Yes, the new anti-SHV traits are very, very good. My only gripe with them is that most of them are warlord specific. As in, they only apply to the Warlord and his unit. I was never a fan of those.
Still, that no scatter trait is probably the most powerful out of all of them.

I'm pretty sure it's just the units with a special rule (which's name escapes me... heard it just earlier... dammit, it's gone).

though i hear some FW models are getting the rule added to them, so more things will filter into normal 40k.

looking forward to taking a kustom stompa though, one belly gun and the entire enemy army is hit...

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the books with rules for superheavies.

If it ever came up, my plan was to deploy my Salamander Sternguard in a drop pod right next to it and unload with 4-8 combi-meltas on it. Will that do the trick?

Against a revenant Titan? No. Against literally anything else, yes.

So as a Chaos Player, what are my options dealing with super heavies so far I've come up with...

1. Bring a case that's easy to open and close since I'll be packing up after turn 2.

2. Learn Chinese so I can curse in a new language after I'm wiped on turn 2.

3. Switch Armies

I really really really hope I will never have to face an eldar titan...

2x210 wrote:
So as a Chaos Player, what are my options dealing with super heavies so far I've come up with...

1. Bring a case that's easy to open and close since I'll be packing up after turn 2.

2. Learn Chinese so I can curse in a new language after I'm wiped on turn 2.

3. Switch Armies

I like

4. Deep Striking Obliterators
5. Predator Annihilator
6. Deep Striking melta termicide
7. Heldrakes can't be shot down very easily with a titan - no blast weapons can hit them (ie - for killing the rest of his forces)
8. Flying Demon Prince with the black mace gets up to 9 attacks at s10
9. Buy your own super heavy - The Lord of Skulls. Looks dumb, but will make your opponant nervous. A 60" range 10" blast with st9 and ap3 forcing your opponant to re-roll successful saves could be useful.
10. Havocs armed with lascannons
11. Chosen in a transport with melta
12. Chosen in a transport with plasma (going for rear armour)
13. Deep striking plasma termicide
14. Forge fiend with the st8 assault cannon type gun
15. Lord of skulls with the 12 shot st8 ap3 assault cannon type thing

You might not have all of that on the table, but you should have some

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the books with rules for superheavies.

If it ever came up, my plan was to deploy my Salamander Sternguard in a drop pod right next to it and unload with 4-8 combi-meltas on it. Will that do the trick?

If you hit the rear, it should to even against a revenant to drop 6, on average. but you should drop more for being more reliable.

The front, you will need about 15 melta shots against the revenant.
So you better have some backup plan if you only bring 8ish meltas.

For chaos I would go with deep striking termies, obliterators or chosen with massed special weapons.

For my eldar I can now see a brand new use for fire dragons. I think the necessity of them went down in the new codex but a big unit of them in a serpent would be a great super heavy killer!

Use a lot of dakka on right part of it. Or someone with strong choppa.

(really, SH are not unkillable, just some of them carry a big punch)

 rohansoldier wrote:
For chaos I would go with deep striking termies, obliterators or chosen with massed special weapons.

For my eldar I can now see a brand new use for fire dragons. I think the necessity of them went down in the new codex but a big unit of them in a serpent would be a great super heavy killer!

How about corsair allies?
IIRC, the Corsair prince lets you deep strike fire dragons or wraithguard.

What can Illic make infiltrate?

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the books with rules for superheavies.

If it ever came up, my plan was to deploy my Salamander Sternguard in a drop pod right next to it and unload with 4-8 combi-meltas on it. Will that do the trick?

No it will not really work. The enemy will see it coming and bubble wrap the Superheavy.

Anyone recall off hand how Entropic Strike works against SHs now?
(I recall someone saying Canoptek Scarabs are no longer anything for them to fear, but never bother paying attention as to why, before)

 skoffs wrote:
Anyone recall off hand how Entropic Strike works against SHs now?

It doesn't. At all.

 Peregrine wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Anyone recall off hand how Entropic Strike works against SHs now?

It doesn't. At all.

Lances work normal. But weapons which would lower the AV permanently do not.

Haywire attacks also seem effective. EMP fire warriors ATTACK!

I think the Necron Royal Court is probably the most cost-effective option. 25 points for a Voltaic Staff is nuts. The only issue is getting it into range. Veilteks are one option, but deep striking without scatter mitigation is pretty risky. Splitting the Court up among some Night Scythes is probably safer, even though it forces you to wait until turn 2 to use it.

Drop Podding Combi-Melta Wolf Guard are a good alternative for Imperial armies. 23 points per shot with a very reasonable deployment cost.

Some imperial thoughts:

Gravguns + jaws for the gargantuans seem like a good deal.

Then lots of drop pods with meltaguns + barrage weapons to clear a landing zone.

You also want to go first quite frequently and MSU = only choice, so poor underplayed Coteaz finally might see some playtime.

Sounds like a white scar + space wolf + INQ party

Maybe also bring a large fortification to hide stuff behind.

Other option might be IG+SM flyer heavy, immune to a lot of the bad stuff, but will probably struggle with actually killing superheavies, and of course they are much worse than necron flyers at stealing objectives

What good are grav guns? Super-heavies are immune to their effects.

Jaws of the World Wolf seems like a good idea until you remember that vehicles are immune and most Gargantuan Creatures will have decent initiative and get a bonus for being (counted as) a monstrous creature. And even if it succeeds, you're only removing d3 wounds.

Psychic Shriek is an interesting choice, though -- you should average almost 1.5 wounds after a successful hit. Gargantuan Creatures are no better than any other Ld10 model in this regard.

I think flyers might be the best counter against the revenant. It has no air defense (a single S5 missile isn't going to do much), and it's only AV12. If a flyer can churn out S7+, it might be able to do some damage.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the books with rules for superheavies.

If it ever came up, my plan was to deploy my Salamander Sternguard in a drop pod right next to it and unload with 4-8 combi-meltas on it. Will that do the trick?

No it will not really work. The enemy will see it coming and bubble wrap the Superheavy.

It really depends on what you are facing. As this isn't Apoc, a lot depends on the points. At 1500-2000 point games, how much bubble wrap can be done? For IG, it seems a bit obvious, but for other armies? We'll see how folks figure it out.

 Sarigar wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the books with rules for superheavies.

If it ever came up, my plan was to deploy my Salamander Sternguard in a drop pod right next to it and unload with 4-8 combi-meltas on it. Will that do the trick?

No it will not really work. The enemy will see it coming and bubble wrap the Superheavy.

It really depends on what you are facing. As this isn't Apoc, a lot depends on the points. At 1500-2000 point games, how much bubble wrap can be done? For IG, it seems a bit obvious, but for other armies? We'll see how folks figure it out.

Yeah, that's something that people seem to keep forgetting; if you have a SHV in a normal game, you aren't going to have much else.

Why are super heavies immune to grav guns?

Cheers

Jamo wrote:
Why are super heavies immune to grav guns?

Cheers

They shouldn't be. I do not see anything in the rules that makes them immune something like that.
The Grav Gun doesn't degrade it's armor, after all.

EDIT: Oh I see. The Grav Gun causes an immobilised result, which is ignored by the SHV. However, the SHV does not ignore the auto-hull point loss, which is the more important effect.

Drop pod melta devs/ fusion crisis suits right next to it.

Dosnt get easier than that

Corollax wrote:
What good are grav guns? Super-heavies are immune to their effects.

Jaws of the World Wolf seems like a good idea until you remember that vehicles are immune and most Gargantuan Creatures will have decent initiative and get a bonus for being (counted as) a monstrous creature. And even if it succeeds, you're only removing d3 wounds.

Psychic Shriek is an interesting choice, though -- you should average almost 1.5 wounds after a successful hit. Gargantuan Creatures are no better than any other Ld10 model in this regard.

Gravguns are good against gargantuans. Gravs also have concussive, making the target I1. If concussive doesnt work, jaws got much less interesting, but grav is still good, ignoring their high T and having many shots. I routinely take out two wraithknights a turn given the chance with grav, so a gargantuan should be doable to kill.

Tigurius for puppet master can be very nice as well.

Edit: only three wounds for jaws makes it useless, more grav, puppet master and melta then

Ah! You were talking about using them for Gargantuan creatures, not vehicles...Yes, that would about do it, wouldn't it...?

Corollax wrote:
Ah! You were talking about using them for Gargantuan creatures, not vehicles...Yes, that would about do it, wouldn't it...?

Yes, they are not immune to concussion. SHV can still be hurt by grav guns though. They just can't be immobilized.

You're right, you can reduce them to I1 with concussive weapons, and Grav Guns are more than capable of doing so.

...But even at I1, I'm not convinced that Jaws is worth it. Even if you make the psychic test, he fails to Deny the Witch, fails his Initiative test (remember, it's considered a monstrous creature for resisting the power), you're still only stripping d3 wounds. The grav guns themselves are already much more cost-effective than Jaws is, even after reducing the target's initiative.

D3 wounds is still pretty useful though. A roll of a 6 can reduce a C'tan to half health.

Well, sure. If you make your psychic test, it doesn't Deny the Witch, it fails its initiative test, and you get the maximum result when rolling to wound.

...Or you could just use your grav weapons that hit on 3's, wound on 3's, and get 3 shots per model at 36 (grav-gun) or 31 (combi-grav) points each.

Or just shoot with both regardless

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Or just shoot with both regardless

When in doubt, use more gun

Moar gunz yez!

Looking through most of the super heavies and Gargs, it appears that most of them do not have any strong anti-air capability.

The feared Revenant, for example, only has a single S5 Heavy 1 missile launcher to defend itself.

Tau flyers would especially be nasty, since it can strafe around and bombard the SHV with it's S7 turret. If it gets in the rear flank, it could cause some real pain.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Looking through most of the super heavies and Gargs, it appears that most of them do not have any strong anti-air capability.

The feared Revenant, for example, only has a single S5 Heavy 1 missile launcher to defend itself.

Tau flyers would especially be nasty, since it can strafe around and bombard the SHV with it's S7 turret. If it gets in the rear flank, it could cause some real pain.

Flyers are titan's weakness. Vendettas, storm ravens, and Crimson Hunters make excellent anti-titan units. The problem is with the Revenant titan it essentially has a 4+ invul save as opposed to void shields which means you need a large weight of firepower from those flyers which again is a significant investment in points and $$$.

So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

2. Melta - No armor saves, perfect for getting those explode! damage results for the extra hull points.

3. Pretty much anything with armorbane/fleshbane - against SHV/GCs (respectively), the advantage of the doing the damage you need to is incredibly useful.

4. A lot of guns.

 buddha wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Looking through most of the super heavies and Gargs, it appears that most of them do not have any strong anti-air capability.

The feared Revenant, for example, only has a single S5 Heavy 1 missile launcher to defend itself.

Tau flyers would especially be nasty, since it can strafe around and bombard the SHV with it's S7 turret. If it gets in the rear flank, it could cause some real pain.

Flyers are titan's weakness. Vendettas, storm ravens, and Crimson Hunters make excellent anti-titan units. The problem is with the Revenant titan it essentially has a 4+ invul save as opposed to void shields which means you need a large weight of firepower from those flyers which again is a significant investment in points and $$$.

Not quite. If you manage to get a pen on it, a lucky roll could really hurt it. You need a 6, granted, but that's where the AP bonuses come in. It appears that Titans aren't that great in CC either, and rely on stomps to get anywhere. If they fail to kill the assaulting unit in 1 shot (possible on a 6), a titan won't be able to do any shooting. Also, can you place multiple stomp templates in the same spot? I can't really tell due to the wording.

The fact that entropic strike doesn't work on SHV is problematic though. I was planning to use arcanthrites to have a go at it.

Honesty, I'm more worried about the thunder hawk than the revenant. It's as tough, it has more guns and it's a flyer, meaning you can't assault it and the vast majority of your weapons can't hit it. It is also a tad cheaper.

 McNinja wrote:
So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

Grav has no effect on SHV, as they can't get immoblised from the firstplace.



The melta do make a great job at it though.
Even the "unkillable" revenant will die on an average of 6 BS4 melta shots coming from the rear. (yep, that few on the rear average a kill, even with the fancy holo field.)

 BoomWolf wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

Grav has no effect on SHV, as they can't get immoblised from the firstplace.



The melta do make a great job at it though.
Even the "unkillable" revenant will die on an average of 6 BS4 melta shots coming from the rear. (yep, that few on the rear average a kill, even with the fancy holo field.)

Again, it says the vehicle suffers an immobilized result and loses 1 hull point.

There is no requirement for the vehicle to be immobilized in order to take damage.

Right. But at that point, you're paying 15 points for a gun that strips 1/3 hull points per shot and has to be put on a relentless model to be effective.

...or you could just use a meltagun, which penetrates much more reliably and has a 50% chance to cause another d3 hull point loss after the penetrating hit.

Corollax wrote:
Right. But at that point, you're paying 15 points for a gun that strips 1/3 hull points per shot and has to be put on a relentless model to be effective.

...or you could just use a meltagun, which penetrates much more reliably and has a 50% chance to cause another d3 hull point loss after the penetrating hit.

Grav Guns have longer range and a higher RoF. If you can get within 6", then meltas would be a good choice. Against something silly like the revenant, that could be difficult.

The rate of fire was already assumed when calculating the hull point damage. Turns out that needing 6's to glance is a good deal for a standard Necron weapon, but pretty lousy for a special weapon you need to put on a bike.

Gravity weapons are lousy against superheavy vehicles. They just are. They're better off than plasmas, certainly, but you'd be better off pointing them at almost anything else in the opponent's army. If you're complaining about Eldar, then have them go hunt some Wave Serpents.

Leave the Superheavies to the melta and haywire. It's what they do.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

Grav has no effect on SHV, as they can't get immoblised from the firstplace.



The melta do make a great job at it though.
Even the "unkillable" revenant will die on an average of 6 BS4 melta shots coming from the rear. (yep, that few on the rear average a kill, even with the fancy holo field.)

Again, it says the vehicle suffers an immobilized result and loses 1 hull point.

There is no requirement for the vehicle to be immobilized in order to take damage.

My mistake then.
Grav away!
Though its still a "hull point on a 6", so melta might get the job done better (with the chances of multiple hullpoints in a single shot and all)

It can do something, yes. That doesn't make it a good choice. 81 shots to kill a typical 9 hull point superheavy with no save and no holo fields is not a winning strategy.

81? damn. that's alot.
Yea, forget the gravs.
Go melta. they can take a revenant in 6 rear shots (or 15 front shots)

Are you sure those numbers are right? 2 points of armor value shouldn't make THAT difference against S8 melta.

Maybe if you were outside of the sweetspot range...? I guess I'm just wanting some context.

Yes. something is weird at this.
Running numbers again.


forgot the damn holo field when calculating the rear.
~12 rear shots. not easy.


And I kept using that number as reasoning why the Revenant aint that scary :\

The C`Tan seems just as bad as the revenant against armies with no superheavies of their own and it is much more likely that you will end up against him than the eldar titan because of cost.

The harridian is also brutal, and there are probably other gargantuans that are bad.

In short, grav is possibly even better than before, you just need to add more melta to your list as well so you can fight the superheavies too

Whoa they are allowing Super Heavies now ?!?!?! Someone please tell me it both is and isn't so !

*stares devilishly at baneblade Varients *

Where are the rules for them ?

It's all in Escalation. It's a supplement as well; it's only allowed if you agree to it. So if you see your opponent plopping a bane blade on the table, kindly remind him that he needs your consent first. Then blow it up with lascannons and multimeltas

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yes. something is weird at this.
Running numbers again.


forgot the damn holo field when calculating the rear.
~12 rear shots. not easy.


And I kept using that number as reasoning why the Revenant aint that scary :\

Yeah, I was going to say...But I don't think it's quite that bad. 1/36 will glance. 35/36 hits will penetrate. Penetrating hits will explode half the time. Explode results removes another d3 (average 2) hull points.

(1/36 + 35/36*(1+2)) = 2.94 hull points per hit.

The Revenant has 9 hull points, negates half your damage results, and 2/3 of your shots will miss.

(9*2) / (0.667*2.94) = 9.17 BS4 sweetspot melta shots against rear armor.

Bring a drop-pod full of combi-melta wolf guard and you should have enough firepower to do the job. If you need a turn to clear the bubble wrap, consider keeping the pod in your ongoing reserves and dropping another (Grey Hunters?) instead. You can use the intervening turn(s) to clear the field.

I dunno...due to it's large size, the only problem that bubble wrap should give is stopping you from getting in melta range. I don't see how infantry models can give it a cover save. They are a bit small to obscure a quarter of the titan, I would think.

@Kasrkin229
The new escalation book that just hit. It's a supplement, so watch out.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2330053a

You got it a bit wrong, your calculation does not take into account the very fact you even stated that Explode! happens 50% of the time, the numbers are as if EVERY penetration gets it.

Its actually:
(1/36)+(35/36)*(1/2)+(35/36)*(1/2)*(3)=1.97222222222 hull points per hit.
And as you need 3 shots for 1 hit to pass by the BS roll and the holo field it means that a shot removes 0.6574074074 HP on average.
And that means you need 13.6901408452 shots to get 9 hull points. even WORSE then I thought.

Bha, doing calculations in my head got my rounding up too much and getting optimistic, actual calculations shows just how much it takes.
Still within the realm of possibility, just hard possibility.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's all in Escalation. It's a supplement as well; it's only allowed if you agree to it. So if you see your opponent plopping a bane blade on the table, kindly remind him that he needs your consent first. Then blow it up with lascannons and multimeltas

Wait, dose that mean anyone who uses Farsight Enclave or Iyanden need permission?

 Nilok wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's all in Escalation. It's a supplement as well; it's only allowed if you agree to it. So if you see your opponent plopping a bane blade on the table, kindly remind him that he needs your consent first. Then blow it up with lascannons and multimeltas

Wait, dose that mean anyone who uses Farsight Enclave or Iyanden need permission?

Those are more like codices. Escalation is closure to Planetstrike or Cities of Death. Besides, Escalation is part of the normal game, then there would be no need to distinguish it from a normal under "Carry on As Normal"
Also, I'm pretty sure it says that things like Farsight Enclave and Iyanden can be used as a normal force. Escalation doesn't have that clause.

That should really be in the FAQ...so many people are going about that you have to play Escalation.

Regarding Revenant, you can't ignore its mobility. You might get one attempt with your flyer, but not second. In the meantime Revenant has killed 2-4 units already and will continue doing so when you are still trying to turn your flyer.

Edit: reading comprehension fail Though im sure its GWs plan to make people buy more kits

I wonder how well outflanking mm assault bikes will do. as well What your guys plans are against the flying tau 1.

(god i hope they allow the heavy rail version as a LoW. then id probably will pick up escalation and restart my tau army)

There's always the multi-part attack. Get that airborne support and drop pod some melta dudes in. Keep in mind that you can better position your dudes dudes with specific powers or Wargear.

 BoomWolf wrote:
You got it a bit wrong, your calculation does not take into account the very fact you even stated that Explode! happens 50% of the time, the numbers are as if EVERY penetration gets it.

Its actually:
(1/36)+(35/36)*(1/2)+(35/36)*(1/2)*(3)=1.97222222222 hull points per hit.
And as you need 3 shots for 1 hit to pass by the BS roll and the holo field it means that a shot removes 0.6574074074 HP on average.
And that means you need 13.6901408452 shots to get 9 hull points. even WORSE then I thought.

Bha, doing calculations in my head got my rounding up too much and getting optimistic, actual calculations shows just how much it takes.
Still within the realm of possibility, just hard possibility.

Ah, yes, I see you're right. I'm getting the same numbers as you now that I remembered to divide the explode results by half. Thanks for the correction.

And suddenly, haywire becomes godlike.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Those are more like codices. Escalation is closure to Planetstrike or Cities of Death. Besides, Escalation is part of the normal game, then there would be no need to distinguish it from a normal under "Carry on As Normal"

That should really be in the FAQ...so many people are going about that you have to play Escalation.

There isn't any language in the Escalation book that would point to it being anything other than a new addition to the core rules, at least none that I've found, same with Stronghold Assault. Honestly I hope it's the case, D weapons aside I think both books add some much needed variety into the game and I'd hate for them to go the way of CoD and Planetstrike as those things people vaguely remember existing but no one adtually bothered to shell out for because they knew that after a few games of it everyone would go back to "testing their tournament army" in every single game.

Yeah, Necron Voltaic Staffs had been mentioned earlier. Getting actual haywire grenades into close combat with one of these things is going to be almost impossible, but the Stormteks stand a good chance of stripping some hull points. It pairs well with Gauss, too, so that's nice.

@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

If I'm reading it right, pg125.

Where does it say that the original rules have been amended by the supplement?

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

Im aware and that's what i hoping

But still thinking about it even the regular tiger shark is essentially a 6 hp 12/10/10 flying battle cannon. (though 14 drones popping out sounds funny) seems like most lists that have to deal with cron air can handle this guy.
1-0 is what i really hope for so at least i can get away with a D nice shot or a 7" pizza plate before it gets removed from the sky.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

If I'm reading it right, pg125.

Where does it say that the original rules have been amended by the supplement?

Under Introduction:

An amended force organisation chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.

I found the "Carry on as Normal" rule and I think you are miss interpreting it.

These changes aside, all of the rules from the Fighting A Battle section in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook are used as for a normal game.

This is specifically in the "Alter of War" section explaining how the new missions work.

 Nilok wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

If I'm reading it right, pg125.

Where does it say that the original rules have been amended by the supplement?

Under Introduction:

An amended force organisation chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.

I found the "Carry on as Normal" rule and I think you are miss interpreting it.

These changes aside, all of the rules from the Fighting A Battle section in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook are used as for a normal game.

This is specifically in the "Alter of War" section explaining how the new missions work.

What's Altar of War? I never heard of it.

@CthululsSpy
It's the section of the Escalation book titled "Altar of War: Escalation" explaining the new Eternal War missions added from from this supplement.

Doesn't that follow the same idea as Planetstrike and Cities of Death? That too had amended and altered FOCs.

No, sadly it doesn't. Unlike Planetstrike and Cities of Death which are Expansions, Escalation and Stronghold Assault are Supplements.

The "Carry on as Normal" explains that it follows all the normal rules for 40k, as well as the ones listed in the book.

Think of Expansions like a 32X for a Genesis (or Megadrive). You don't need it to play your normal Genesis games, and usually just gets in the way.

A Supplement alters the way the core rules or codices work. Think of it as a major patch for a game that you can't revert and adds a new class. Only the people who buy into the content can use it, but you still have to deal with it even if you don't.

2x210 wrote:
So as a Chaos Player, what are my options dealing with super heavies so far I've come up with...

1. Bring a case that's easy to open and close since I'll be packing up after turn 2.

2. Learn Chinese so I can curse in a new language after I'm wiped on turn 2.

3. Switch Armies

Play Black Legion and bring The Eye of Night. Rejoice in the knowledge you have a chance to win the game in round 1.

 Nilok wrote:
No, sadly it doesn't. Unlike Planetstrike and Cities of Death which are Expansions, Escalation and Stronghold Assault are Supplements.

The "Carry on as Normal" explains that it follows all the normal rules for 40k, as well as the ones listed in the book.

Think of Expansions like a 32X for a Genesis (or Megadrive). You don't need it to play your normal Genesis games, and usually just gets in the way.

A Supplement alters the way the core rules or codices work. Think of it as a major patch for a game that you can't revert and adds a new class. Only the people who buy into the content can use it, but you still have to deal with it even if you don't.

Well, that's annoying. Good thing I have a C'tan

Of course, literally all that has to happen is for GW to call Escalation an "expansion" for all this fear and arguing to go away...

But considering their history of poor english (despite being a British company) I really don't put much weight in what they choose to call their releases (supplements, expansions, whatever). And if everyone is really going to complain about how GW ruined the tournament scene/game as they fork over money to buy new $200 models to stay competitive, then I'd offer that they are doing it wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But back to tactics:
I think that having your warlord attached to your melta/mass dakka suicide-kill squad would be important, due to the bonuses given. And, since most super-heavies have 9 hp you'll be making a 3 to 1 victory point trade if that squad dies.

I too thought of the grav guns vs. gargantuan creatures, haven't seen anything that says they don't work as advertised.

So to sum up: If you don't play necrons, or use a super heavy of your own, take deep striking meltas.

I do not think the other superheavies besides the Revenant are over the top. Unfortunately it is quite easy to squeeze that into e.g. 1750/1850 pts Eldar lists with Tau allies for AA.

It is definitely a many times scarier than a few Warp Spiders and Dark Reapers.

What I find fun is taking out titans with Fire warriors. In close combat!

FW XV-09 with Fusion Cascade this should give you 2D3 Melta shots PER suit. Expensive but should get the job done.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What I find fun is taking out titans with Fire warriors. In close combat!

A friend of mine plays a very mobile Tau army, and all of his fire warriors are euipped with EMP grenades. They easily make their points back, since not many people think about firewarriors being able to kill a land raider in CC.

Use necrons and stormteks in a nightscythe. Haywire works against superheavies in this edition and gauss can strip large amounts of hull points.

10 Warriors will be putting out 20 shots and 2 attached stormteks will put out 8 haywire shots with a good chance of alpha striking many superheavies. The nighscythe lets them get there unmolested and the best part is it is realativley cheap.

 buddha wrote:
Use necrons and stormteks in a nightscythe. Haywire works against superheavies in this edition and gauss can strip large amounts of hull points.

10 Warriors will be putting out 20 shots and 2 attached stormteks will put out 8 haywire shots with a good chance of alpha striking many superheavies. The nighscythe lets them get there unmolested and the best part is it is realativley cheap.

As has been mentioned a few times in this thread already when talking about using Storm-teks, if you want to alpha strike a super heavy with Necrons, you're going to need a Veil of Darkness instead. (a Nightscythe will only come in turn two at earliest. Do you REALLY want to give your opponent a free turn to use a super heavy?)

Sure. But the Veil of Darkness doesn't offer any scatter reduction on your deep strike. If the enemy bubble wraps their titan appropriately, delivering that unit within 12" could be quite difficult.

 McNinja wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What I find fun is taking out titans with Fire warriors. In close combat!

A friend of mine plays a very mobile Tau army, and all of his fire warriors are euipped with EMP grenades. They easily make their points back, since not many people think about firewarriors being able to kill a land raider in CC.

Don't you love taking out someone's expensive death machine with a 2pt. troop upgrade?

Corollax wrote:
Sure. But the Veil of Darkness doesn't offer any scatter reduction on your deep strike. If the enemy bubble wraps their titan appropriately, delivering that unit within 12" could be quite difficult.

If you get that one Warlord trait you will. Of course, that makes it a very situational tactic.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Corollax wrote:
Sure. But the Veil of Darkness doesn't offer any scatter reduction on your deep strike. If the enemy bubble wraps their titan appropriately, delivering that unit within 12" could be quite difficult.

If you get that one Warlord trait you will. Of course, that makes it a very situational tactic.

So your options are
A) take a Nightscythe and weather through the first turn's superheavy shooting, then hope the reserve rolls favor you so you don't have to deal with a second or third turns shooting before your Nightscythe arrives (of course, if your opponent's models have interceptor, you may not even get to shoot the thing once before your guys are blasted off the table).
B) take a Veil of Darkness, hope to either get the no-scatter Warlord trait or that your opponent has left a spot less bubble wrapped so you can teleport in and wreck (or at least seriously harm) his vehicle on turn one (hopefully before he's even had a chance to use it).

Necrons don't need flyers to be effective with their guns...as long as you have enough to survive 1 turn second turn you might just murder the titan...

Last night I won on points in an Escalation game against an Ork Army with a Stompa. ~2850 point game, I didn't have any Super Heavys. Got the Stompa down to one HP then ridiculous Cover Saves ensued (something like 6 glances and 2 pens ALL got saved) and the game ended on a roll in Turn 5, and I won 12 VP to 10.

Varguard
OrbLord
5 Stormteks

Zandrekh
20 Warriors

Des Lord
6x Wriaths

20 Warriorrs
Ghost Ark +5 Warriors
15 Warriors
1 Doom Scythe
1 DD Ark
3 Monoliths

I had most luck with the Super Heavy by Deep Striking Monoliths and positioning Monoliths, then running warriors out to batter the titan with gauss and pound it with the DD Ark. I will never not take the Voltaic Staffs in an Escaltaion game...worked like a friggin charm.

So far, I am no longer intimidated by uper Heavies in a regular game, even if I don't bring one, with Crons. Hope I can get a vault one day!

Easily the funnest game of 40k I've played in a good while.

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

to correct this a little, the 40k approved stuff will need permission, the Apoc only are for apoc only and those units marked as 'warlords' are available to use without permission needed.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

to correct this a little, the 40k approved stuff will need permission, the Apoc only are for apoc only and those units marked as 'warlords' are available to use without permission needed.

Forge World just released a PDF which lists most of the super-heavies they've ever made as Lords of War. Now the sky can start falling

 Talore wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

to correct this a little, the 40k approved stuff will need permission, the Apoc only are for apoc only and those units marked as 'warlords' are available to use without permission needed.

Forge World just released a PDF which lists most of the super-heavies they've ever made as Lords of War. Now the sky can start falling

I think I may have to sell my car to buy a manta...

 Talore wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
Also the Typhon, Fellblade, Cerberus via IA:2.

Wait, really?
So all FW/IA units are allowed in normal 40k games now without needing express permission from your opponent?

to correct this a little, the 40k approved stuff will need permission, the Apoc only are for apoc only and those units marked as 'warlords' are available to use without permission needed.

Forge World just released a PDF which lists most of the super-heavies they've ever made as Lords of War. Now the sky can start falling

So what does this do as far as who/what to fear most?
(previously it was just the Revenant and Transcendent C'tan. Now that the floodgates have been opened, who do we REALLY have to worry about?)

Well obviously the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASAULT TRANSPORT.

 Desubot wrote:
Well obviously the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASAULT TRANSPORT.

Oh god, not again.

The emperor titan in games under 2500 pts...because your opponent is cheating big time.

Honestly it is tough to say. The real measure of the LoW is what the rest of the army can do to balance it, I would say all the LoW above 1000 pts really won't win games under 2000 pts. The warhound seems really good for the points and the eldar flyers and vehicles are almost all very good. I think the C'Tan is probably the most balanced one .

Arnt the pylons stupid broken? i forget.

I hope to try the Tiger shark ax10. i think its pretty balanced even with a D weapon. its like 2 storm ravens ducktaped together with a single target D weapon.

Nope. The pylon has like 6 hull points. They have a D strength gun with ridiculously long range and 3 shots, but it's not blast so it's only going to kill at most 1 thing a turn. Usually that thing will be another super heavy.

Which is what Titan Killers are supposed to be for.

Yeah, funny enough necrons are by far and away the best titan killers with the pylon, nightscythes, stormie techs, etc.

Pylons sure do fix those SH flyers though.

 ansacs wrote:
Yeah, funny enough necrons are by far and away the best titan killers with the pylon, nightscythes, stormie techs, etc.

Pylons sure do fix those SH flyers though.

Yeah I was wondering about that. Is there some rule that I'm missing that protects superheavies, even things such as Reavers and Phantom titans, from haywire? Harbingers of storm can lead pretty much every Necron unit and they can all be deployed via flyers right next to whatever they have to kill. They'll cause an absurd amount of hull point damage to any vehicle, and best of all, they'll do it extremely points efficiently, leaving pretty much thousands of points for other stuff too.

EDIT:

 buddha wrote:
Use necrons and stormteks in a nightscythe. Haywire works against superheavies in this edition and gauss can strip large amounts of hull points.

10 Warriors will be putting out 20 shots and 2 attached stormteks will put out 8 haywire shots with a good chance of alpha striking many superheavies. The nighscythe lets them get there unmolested and the best part is it is realativley cheap.

This guy already said it. I was just curious, because the very first Necron armies I made in this current edition had 6 squads of Warriors, each lead by Stormteks, riding in Night Scythes. Seems like the cookie cutter loadout doesn't have anything to worry about.

No protection from Haywire. Just Entropic strike. DE and Tau can spam haywire a lot more than necrons - their troop units can take EMP nades.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No protection from Haywire. Just Entropic strike. DE and Tau can spam haywire a lot more than necrons - their troop units can take EMP nades.

I doubt anything is as points efficient and reliable as the flying Stormteks, considering the delivery method, amount of shots, ballistic skill, etc. The Stormtek is by far the best hull point damage per point ranged unit in the game that can be taken in large numbers.

Not tau for sure considering you some how have to get close enough and then charge.

DE would probably have the best chance with flat out then charge from an open top vehicle.

 Desubot wrote:
Not tau for sure considering you some how have to get close enough and then charge.

DE would probably have the best chance with flat out then charge from an open top vehicle.

It's mostly surprise TBH. I have taken out land raiders with a unit of fire warriors because my opponent did not expect a fire warrior squad to charge a land raider. Most opponents would not think a fire warrior squad to be any danger to a titan, and will ignore them.

Edit: The look on someone's face when you take down their 200+ point unkillable death machine with a 2pt troop upgrade is priceless.

As an ork player it's not the Revenant what tops my personal list of "things to be VERY worried about", but the Tesseract Vault.

The Revenant can be offed with lootas (mounted in Battlewagons so as to convert those two Strenght: D pie plates on a S:4 AP-) and waaagh-ing Dakkajets. Take an ADL with comms relay for the reserves roll boost, some trukks full of boys, race them to objectives and you're set.

As for how to deal with 9HPs worth of AV14 (that is cheaper than the Revenant to boot), I'm lost. Probably our only hope is bringing our own superheavy to those matches, but I can't shake the feeling that fielding the Stompa against a Necron player ammounts to giving away free VPs.

The Trascendent C'tan can be pretty nasty too. Most things in Escalation fall in the huge side of things, but this guy can use LOS-blocking terrain and bubblewraps to his advantage.

Well, for a Shadowsword I just use a Stormraven. At the tailend of 5th ed a friend and I played a game with the SRG using the Apocalypse flyer rules vs his Shadowsword as a HS choice at 2k pts. Blew the thing up turn 2 by Multimelta and Bloodstrike Missiles, and finished with Calgar ripping it apart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or else, just use Necron Warriors? Unless they are immune to Gauss too.

Nope, not immune to Gauss.

You are all sweating too much. Just treat it as any HVT that awards auto 3-6 VP. And drop your opponents capabilities quickly. By using it they are putting too many eggs into one basket.

 Therion wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No protection from Haywire. Just Entropic strike. DE and Tau can spam haywire a lot more than necrons - their troop units can take EMP nades.

I doubt anything is as points efficient and reliable as the flying Stormteks, considering the delivery method, amount of shots, ballistic skill, etc. The Stormtek is by far the best hull point damage per point ranged unit in the game that can be taken in large numbers.

Indeed, Necrons have a very efficient unit which is able to strip off hull points, and Night Scythes provide an effective delivery system.

I don't have my IA8 book with me, but the Kustom Stompa with 2x Bursta Kannons will make short work of a Tesseract vault and you can use it to carry a big mob of boyz up to an objective as well if you wish. IIRC it's relatively cheap depending on what else you add on and I don't *think* the Necrons can OTK it. The only worry I guess is the vault being reserved and your Stompa being glanced to death in the mean time, but if they're reserving it it's not doing damage so that's nice.