18410
Post by: filbert
The text for those who can't be arsed to click through - it's via Natfka apparently:
We have had a few communications now on a few new Chaos Marine box sets that are on their way to us in February. Now its time to talk about the Chaos Lords, and of course some more details.
Here are links to the two previous sets that are part of this rumor
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/01/chaos-space-marine-box-set-releases-pt2.html
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/01/chaos-space-marine-chosen-box-set.html
Please remember that these are rumors.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
gw have identified a number of issues with the chaos line with the main 3 being 1. The dated look of a number of models. 2. The hybrid nature of many kits 3. The lack of a generic non God marked lord outside of dark vengeance
There is to be a plastic clampack lord released in suitably ornate armour. The lord is mono posed and comprised of 5 pieces. This model has supposedly been designed as to be easy to kit bash/convert to allow chaos players to use the new updated power armour bits on.
Regarding the chosen. All power weapon variants are in the box with the lance and axe sharing the same body but with a separate head piece. Icons are included as is a number of God specific pads and heads. The kit has an "outrageous" number of head options.
Regarding the havoc. The havoc and new chosen/ standard marine kit share a core sprue containing 5 complete marine's. The havoc then has a number of unique sprues containing weaponry, backpacks and torso options. The havoc also boast an impressive number of heads with many appearing as mk2/3 heads with optical upgrades.
Has this been posted before at all?
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Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That
"The dated look of a number of models."
Surely, they don't mean the Khorne beserkers!
9892
Post by: Flashman
The 5 Chosen / Chaos Marines will be an interesting test of GW's current pricing sanity.
£20 = Just about acceptable, but only in relation to 5 Dire Avengers costing £20 plus
£25 = Unacceptable price creep as this set sounds the same as the Blood Angels / Death Company set.
£30 = Witch Elf / Sisters of Slaughter levels of pricing insanity / arrogance
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
 Flashman wrote:The 5 Chosen / Chaos Marines will be an interesting test of GW's current pricing sanity.
I'd imagine the Chosen will be at £30 the same as the Sternguard, sadly. The 5 man boxes shouldn't be above the £20.50 mark that possessed and raptors sit at currently. I doubt GW has noticed the correlation between pricing and dropping sales, so we will probably end up at the £30 mark. Although these are Naftka rumours... If the Mk. 2 and 3 heads thing is right that could be good news for anybody wanting to make some new Iron Warriors. I thought they'd continue with the aesthetic of the Raptors though.
18410
Post by: filbert
They justify the price with the amount of extra crap that they shove onto the sprues. Because apparently, although you only get the same 5 men out of the box, having umpteen different heads makes all the difference. I personally couldn't give a toss - I'm not a modeller or converter so the extra bumpf just goes in a box to gather dust.
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Post by: Joyboozer
 filbert wrote:They justify the price with the amount of extra crap that they shove onto the sprues. Because apparently, although you only get the same 5 men out of the box, having umpteen different heads makes all the difference. I personally couldn't give a toss - I'm not a modeller or converter so the extra bumpf just goes in a box to gather dust.
Shouldn't you swap them?
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
filbert wrote:They justify the price with the amount of extra crap that they shove onto the sprues. Because apparently, although you only get the same 5 men out of the box, having umpteen different heads makes all the difference. I personally couldn't give a toss - I'm not a modeller or converter so the extra bumpf just goes in a box to gather dust.
I do like converting but I agree with you. A lot of it goes unused. I'd rather see maybe a couple of optional heads and weapons and then spread the rest out amongst the kits. That way kitbashing is still possible, but you never end up with ridiculous amounts of stuff left that will never get used.
GW could even bring their bits service back...
34328
Post by: l0k1
Interesting rumors. I've been hoping for updated kits for a while. Though, by the look of these rumors, still no plastic updates for any cult troops. :(
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Post by: Flashman
I'm just stirring to be honest, but £30 would mean a cost of £60 for a 10 man Chaos Marine squad - assuming the rumour that this is a combination of Chosen and standard Chaos Marines is correct.
A Tactical Squad is only £25, so you're paying £35 for spiky bits.
I imagine they'll keep the old standard Chaos Space marine kit though for those who can't afford the new look 
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
 Medium of Death wrote: filbert wrote:They justify the price with the amount of extra crap that they shove onto the sprues. Because apparently, although you only get the same 5 men out of the box, having umpteen different heads makes all the difference. I personally couldn't give a toss - I'm not a modeller or converter so the extra bumpf just goes in a box to gather dust.
I do like converting but I agree with you. A lot of it goes unused. I'd rather see maybe a couple of optional heads and weapons and then spread the rest out amongst the kits. That way kitbashing is still possible, but you never end up with ridiculous amounts of stuff left that will never get used. GW could even bring their bits service back...
Yeah, I like the options as well, but they are charging another 5-10 euros for bits you will probably never use. I already have 3 boxes full of spare parts. I wish all of their stores had a communal bitz box. Like, you drop the bitz in there if you don't want them, and you can pick up some for free. Or even better, they don't charge you for the extra bitz in the set, and you contact their theorhetical bitz service for parts you need.
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Post by: Ashiraya
Oh gawd yes, I hope this is true.
7637
Post by: Sasori
Well, seeing as this is coming from Natfka....
42470
Post by: SickSix
They recognize that some kits look outdated but Abbbadaddon looks fine?
70084
Post by: prankster
Well there's three, likely different, sources talking about this at present. Sure, not everything from Natfka is right, but that's the issue with posting pretty much everything that is passed your way.
A plastic havoc box would be nice, though I can see it not giving you enough heavy weapons to field a squad with four the same. In the same way as the SM devastator box. Though, unless they add new options to the squad, I'll probably not pick any up due to ordering the FW 30k weapons for my squads.
But then, if they're redoing the basic CSM sprues (with shiny new sculpts) it gives them a good base to do plastic 1KSons (and noise marines) with a single sprue for the upgrade parts.
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
Is this more than 2 weeks out? Yes? Then it's fake.
18698
Post by: kronk
I look forward to new CSM's. However, my Army has been purchased. It's complete.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Really? 5 man troop box?
They don't have the ball... wait Dire Avengers.
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
prankster wrote:Well there's three, likely different, sources talking about this at present.
Linky?
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Post by: reds8n
I suppose this could tie into the rumoured summer campaign.
Havocs going soonish I could believe as IIRC they're plastic and Finecast and with the latter also disappearing it can only really be a question of when really..?
79006
Post by: Nightlord1987
Damn, here was me holding out hope for a new supplement rumor.
A generic non-God marked Lord? Has ANYONE really been asking for this? I don't think I have ever seen a non-marked lord (besides Huron) in a list.
The only thing I could see being useful are some of the Artifacts... a murderous looking sword, a pointy ornate looking mace, a decked out flamer. Prolly wont have them included though.
18698
Post by: kronk
Sternguard and devastators are 5 man boxes, so I'm not surprised for the Havocs and Chosen to be the same.
However, the bog standard Chaos Space Marines should come in 10-man boxes like the new (and old) tactical squads.
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
 H.B.M.C. wrote:Really? 5 man troop box? They don't have the ball... wait Dire Avengers.
I don't think the concept of a five man troop box should be that alien. Unless the minimum unit size is greater than the number of models in the box. It's really just the pricing that shoots this idea down. The current price point makes it seem more like a money grab.
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Post by: bubber
Remember that WD is going to weekly issues so they could be released in the last week of Feb which is still some weeks away...
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Post by: gianlucafiorentini123
Would love to see a new CSM troop box, as long as it stays it 10 men, though I hope they don't layout the sprue in the same way as the Tac squad those things are a nightmare to put together.
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Post by: Azazelx
filbert wrote:They justify the price with the amount of extra crap that they shove onto the sprues. Because apparently, although you only get the same 5 men out of the box, having umpteen different heads makes all the difference. I personally couldn't give a toss - I'm not a modeller or converter so the extra bumpf just goes in a box to gather dust.
Well, the good thing about the Sternguard kits is that with a bit of mating with Tactical Marines, you can get a good 15 or so Sternguard out of the box. If this is the same, I could see it being reasonable. Automatically Appended Next Post: And FWIW, I'm a painter/modeller. The extra heads, weapons and bling (especially heads and weapons) is the only reason I'm willing to buy kits like Vanguard/Sternguard or potentially these ones. If it's just about being utilitarian with models, just paint standard tac marines with 1st company shoulderpads or whatever and glue on some slightly different guns - no need to buy these kits!
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
filbert wrote:gw have identified a number of issues with the chaos line with the main 3 being 1. The dated look of a number of models. 2. The hybrid nature of many kits 3. The lack of a generic non God marked lord outside of dark vengeance
Fake. That way of thinking is just so unlike GW !
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Post by: lord_blackfang
3. The lack of a generic non God marked lord outside of dark vengeance
Apart from the two different ones in Power Armour and two different ones in Terminator armour that are currently listed on the GW site? The trolls aren't even trying anymore.
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Post by: kronk
Or just about any MKII or MKIII PA guy form FW would make a good start to a lord.
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Post by: Brother SRM
The only reason I'd give this rumor any credence is because GW is apparently switching to a smaller, faster release schedule with the weekly White Dwarfs, and it'll allow for little gaps in product lines to be filled. But, you know, naftka. I'd be happy with a new Chaos Marine kit, and if it really was just 5 dudes with tons of bits you could easily mix the Tactical Marine kit with it and make 15 pretty Chaotic looking dudes. I doubt it's a thing though.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 lord_blackfang wrote: 3. The lack of a generic non God marked lord outside of dark vengeance
Apart from the two different ones in Power Armour and two different ones in Terminator armour that are currently listed on the GW site? The trolls aren't even trying anymore.
Of those three are still metal, with one in plastic.
Chaos Lord 1 and Chaos Lord 2 are power armor--but still sold as metal.
Chaos Terminator Lord boxed set is plastic.
Chaos Terminator Lord 2 is still sold as metal.
The Aspiring Champion model is plastic but actually has a few bits that make him very unsuitable for being a "Build Your Own HQ" choice, while a CSM Lord in plastic could do well with a few arm options.
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Post by: Bull0
 Azazelx wrote: And FWIW, I'm a painter/modeller. The extra heads, weapons and bling (especially heads and weapons) is the only reason I'm willing to buy kits like Vanguard/Sternguard or potentially these ones.
+1. The breadth of options and the ability to use the extras to bling out the more generic models is the main draw, for me. I've bought like... 4 of the new death company boxes over the years, primarily to blood-angel-ify regular space marine models with all the neat weapons and heads and shoulders and whatnot. The Sternguard kit at £30 made some sense given the sheer number of guns you get in that kit (don't recall exactly, but something in the region of two of every combi-weapon, five fancy bolters, two of each special weapon, heavy flamer AND heavy bolter, power fist, power sword, etc... it's a fairly good deal. That's before talking about the extra heads, shoulders, miscellaneous bits, what have you).
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Post by: alphaecho
Azazelx wrote: filbert wrote:They justify the price with the amount of extra crap that they shove onto the sprues. Because apparently, although you only get the same 5 men out of the box, having umpteen different heads makes all the difference. I personally couldn't give a toss - I'm not a modeller or converter so the extra bumpf just goes in a box to gather dust.
Well, the good thing about the Sternguard kits is that with a bit of mating with Tactical Marines, you can get a good 15 or so Sternguard out of the box. If this is the same, I could see it being reasonable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And FWIW, I'm a painter/modeller. The extra heads, weapons and bling (especially heads and weapons) is the only reason I'm willing to buy kits like Vanguard/Sternguard or potentially these ones. If it's just about being utilitarian with models, just paint standard tac marines with 1st company shoulderpads or whatever and glue on some slightly different guns - no need to buy these kits!
That's the only way I was able to (barely) justify the one box each of Vanguard and Sternguard that made up my new Space Marine Codex purchases. With no appreciable collection of Chaos Marine spares, I wouldn't purchase a 5 Marine £30 Chaos box should one be released.
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Post by: sennacherib
Maybe a new codex will be coming down the pipe to replace the dated one we have.
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Post by: louisb1304
this made me chuckle. I am sure they're the ones that were released in the mid 90's still
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Post by: His Master's Voice
Just because CSM will come on 5 man sprues does not mean the entire box will have just one sprue.
I think perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth should be reserved for when/if that happens. Think positive thoughts in the meantime.
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Post by: Goresaw
Or it could be that the real problem with the 'chaos line' is that the codex is widely considered to be the weakest book with frustrating rules that CSM players have turned their face from in anger?
CSM without ATSKNF makes them incredibly overpriced, weak units just asking to be ran off the board. Rules sell models. Many players will, as James Lascannon on the Heroic 28's said, "will play with a plastic cube if the rules are right".
Yes, CSM might not be that bad, but public opinion is soundly against the book and the units. Even if you don't agree with it, almost everyone reads the internet, sees the negativity, and won't even bother with the army or the models.
Sure, some people don't care and will play with the CSM. But many do care, and won't play or even consider building a CSM army.
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Post by: The Division Of Joy
This makes sense.
With a weekly magazine, we will start to see things released more frequently. The company can release these new kits in a more drip fed way, as they can cover weekly releases now. The stores will suffer from more constant kit changes, but with the increased footfall from the weekly WD this will hopefully bring in more cash for the bricks and mortar area of the company.
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Post by: Sasori
Goresaw wrote:Or it could be that the real problem with the 'chaos line' is that the codex is widely considered to be the weakest book with frustrating rules that CSM players have turned their face from in anger?
CSM without ATSKNF makes them incredibly overpriced, weak units just asking to be ran off the board. Rules sell models. Many players will, as James Lascannon on the Heroic 28's said, "will play with a plastic cube if the rules are right".
Yes, CSM might not be that bad, but public opinion is soundly against the book and the units. Even if you don't agree with it, almost everyone reads the internet, sees the negativity, and won't even bother with the army or the models.
Sure, some people don't care and will play with the CSM. But many do care, and won't play or even consider building a CSM army.
That bolded line is pretty much how I feel about Tyranids right now...
However, new kits would not be bad at all. I admit, I would likely replace all of my CSM troops, if they were the same quality of the Chosen in the DV set. As long as they are not insanely priced of course....
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Post by: Azreal13
The Division Of Joy wrote:This makes sense.
With a weekly magazine, we will start to see things released more frequently. The company can release these new kits in a more drip fed way, as they can cover weekly releases now. The stores will suffer from more constant kit changes, but with the increased footfall from the weekly WD this will hopefully bring in more cash for the bricks and mortar area of the company.
Isn't this just an assumption (a reasonable one, but an assumption nonetheless) on our behalf?
Who's to say that what would have previously been released in week 1 of the month won't simply be spread over a 3 week window now they have a method of doing weekly previews rather than limited to once per month?
While we will be getting something new every week, I haven't seen anywhere official suggest we'll get more product every month than we do now?
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Post by: Kirasu
Goresaw wrote:
CSM without ATSKNF makes them incredibly overpriced, weak units just asking to be ran off the board. Rules sell models. Many players will, as James Lascannon on the Heroic 28's said, "will play with a plastic cube if the rules are right".
I wish GW would realize this.. Rules have always sold models even in 2nd edition! There is a reason why wolf guard terminator models were valuable. People played with soda cans as drop pods because it took GW an ENTIRE edition to release one!
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Goresaw wrote:CSM without ATSKNF makes them incredibly overpriced, weak units just asking to be ran off the board.
How much does a CSM cost ? 13 points ? Well, for one point less, I have a model with -1 WS, -1S, -1T, -1I,…
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Post by: Goresaw
To be fair, they've abused the sisters so much I've considered them to be in a different system at this point, being be the least powerful fantasy army, behind wood elves and bretonians. With sales reflecting as such.
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Post by: skullking
Nice that they would consider making new figures, but I REALLY dislike the current codex. The last one wasn't as good as the previous (3.5), but this one is laughable. I wouldn't mind if they exchanged these troops for some of the living carnival rides they've added to the army in the last codex. And just call a 'HellBrute' a Dreadnaught, or just add Dred's back in, and make the brute something else.
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Post by: Palindrome
 kronk wrote:I look forward to new CSM's. However, my Army has been purchased. It's complete.
Mine as well, although I would be vaguely interested in a Nurgle lord in power armour (especially if he was on a bike).
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Post by: WarAngel
Took them long enough to even consider a Chosen box. Using standard marines will work but just doesn't have the same look to them.
The rumor I found quite interesting is the one regarding 4 Chaos suppliments devoted to the specific gods.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/4-chaos-space-marine-supplements.html
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Post by: Motograter
Now if only that came out too. My slaanesh army would like to be a real slaanesh army
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Post by: Lockark
Goresaw wrote:Or it could be that the real problem with the 'chaos line' is that the codex is widely considered to be the weakest book with frustrating rules that CSM players have turned their face from in anger?
CSM without ATSKNF makes them incredibly overpriced, weak units just asking to be ran off the board. Rules sell models. Many players will, as James Lascannon on the Heroic 28's said, "will play with a plastic cube if the rules are right".
Yes, CSM might not be that bad, but public opinion is soundly against the book and the units. Even if you don't agree with it, almost everyone reads the internet, sees the negativity, and won't even bother with the army or the models.
Sure, some people don't care and will play with the CSM. But many do care, and won't play or even consider building a CSM army.
It's the weekest book if you are takeing actual Chaos marines in your army.
GW should of just called it Codex: Deamon Engines and Cultists... That's what frustrates me the most. Because I can't even complain it's a bad book, with out people pointing to the hell-turkey and claiming my book is plenty competitive.
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Post by: GoliothOnline
You know what the best part of all this is?
the 5 man cultists boxes, still BLOODY EXIST....... >.<"
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Post by: GuardRalph
Some more chaos loven would be welcome. I am slowly getting a Red Corsairs army together and don't like the old models GW has been selling. So, some new mini's would be good for me.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
Goresaw wrote:Or it could be that the real problem with the 'chaos line' is that the codex is widely considered to be the weakest book with frustrating rules that CSM players have turned their face from in anger?
CSM without ATSKNF makes them incredibly overpriced, weak units just asking to be ran off the board. Rules sell models. Many players will, as James Lascannon on the Heroic 28's said, "will play with a plastic cube if the rules are right".
Yes, CSM might not be that bad, but public opinion is soundly against the book and the units. Even if you don't agree with it, almost everyone reads the internet, sees the negativity, and won't even bother with the army or the models.
Sure, some people don't care and will play with the CSM. But many do care, and won't play or even consider building a CSM army.
Dude... with all due respect I can win pick-up games and tougher nuts with the CSM codex, but DA is a wet petard compared to that.
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Post by: Goresaw
DA would have enjoyed a little moment in the sun except for the helldrake FAQ utterly destroyed that army in a single instant.
But regardless, the point is, rules = model sales. I thought they understood that. Thunderfires, sell. Wave serpents, sell. Riptides, sell. Pyrovores.... still do not nor ever will sell. I was sure they were going to turn the pyrovore into a STR 6 AP 2 torrent flamer to sell models... but hey, GW never fails to surprise.
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Post by: Wayniac
I just hope they don't go the route of the new plastic SM, where the gun and the hand are attached and separate from the rest of the arm. Makes it quite awkward to assemble sometimes.
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
WayneTheGame wrote:I just hope they don't go the route of the new plastic SM, where the gun and the hand are attached and separate from the rest of the arm. Makes it quite awkward to assemble sometimes.
Really? I like the new design. Much better than having to actually cut off the gun handle like in the old models, which always felt like mutilating the model to me.
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Post by: Wayniac
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:WayneTheGame wrote:I just hope they don't go the route of the new plastic SM, where the gun and the hand are attached and separate from the rest of the arm. Makes it quite awkward to assemble sometimes.
Really? I like the new design. Much better than having to actually cut off the gun handle like in the old models, which always felt like mutilating the model to me.
Maybe I got a bum mold then or something, I found it really annoying to glue them, at least one or two guys have like a chunk of their arm missing so the hand looks like it's dangling off the wrist. I much preferred the other way, and IMO it wasn't that difficult to chop the wrist off for conversions if needed.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
CSM kit definitely needs revamping. The current kit is a pain in the bum to clean up when you compare it to the new SM tac squad kit.
As for ATSKNF- . CSM as far as I can tell, don't use the same level of mental conditioning as loyalists do.
Assembly wise- I found the new SM kits a joy to assemble. No problems whatsoever.
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Post by: BlaxicanX
Goresaw wrote:DA would have enjoyed a little moment in the sun except for the helldrake FAQ utterly destroyed that army in a single instant. But regardless, the point is, rules = model sales. I thought they understood that. Thunderfires, sell. Wave serpents, sell. Riptides, sell. Pyrovores.... still do not nor ever will sell. I was sure they were going to turn the pyrovore into a STR 6 AP 2 torrent flamer to sell models... but hey, GW never fails to surprise.
Considering that Centurions are extremely hit and miss and the last good flyer was the Heldrake, one would think that that theory would have died out a long time ago. GW does not have a habit of making new units powerful.
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Post by: Ignatius-Grulgor
 angelofvengeance wrote:As for ATSKNF- . CSM as far as I can tell, don't use the same level of mental conditioning as loyalists do. .
We're all fully aware there are some 'fluff reasons' for doing certain things, that doesn't excuse the fact that the rule itself is worth far more than the 1 point difference between a loyalist and a chaos marine, doubly so when VotLW brings them to the same price but isn't anywhere near as powerful. I'm also fully aware sisters lose a lot of stats (the only one that ever really makes a difference is the toughness), for only 1 point of difference from a csm, however they also gain a 6++, and a 5+ DtW which means you go from a 1 in 6 chance to ruin a pink horror units day to a 1 in 3, that's halving the effectiveness of all offensive psychic powers against the unit, as well as free preferred enemy for a turn. I won't dig at sisters though as they've had enough abuse as it is 
I'd love for the rumour to be true but it sounds too much like wishlisting to me, the only glimmer of hope was if it did somehow tie into this campaign thing. Looks like all my old marines would be seeing a change to renegades and corsairs if the new ones are anywhere near as pretty as the DV stuff.
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Post by: Bull0
This whole line of thinking that the new hotness should be the most powerful thing yet confuses me anyway. We want balance but we also want the new thing to be the most powerful thing out there if it's our thing, and we want GW to deliberately make new kits overpowered to sell more models? No, no, no, those are all things I really don't want.
I don't have a problem with the new space marines in terms of ease of assembly - it's gotten easier if anything - but I did like having the handles on the bolters so I could scatter a couple of spares around on battlements or mag-clamp them to backpacks, etc.
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Post by: Barfolomew
gw have identified a number of issues with the chaos line with the main 3 being 1. The dated look of a number of models. 2. The hybrid nature of many kits 3. The lack of a generic non God marked lord outside of dark vengeance
Man, I tell you what, that's a real knee slapper.
1) Dated look - no worse than normal SM
2) Hybrid nature - isn't that the opposite of item 1?
3) These seem pretty generic to me:
- http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440207a&prodId=prod1130405
- http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440207a&prodId=prod1090210
- http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440207a&prodId=prod1710096a
Dear GW, the issue with CSM is that the Codex SUCKS and your stuff is EXPENSIVE. Why do I want to spend money on something that is only going to annoy me? Random do not equal fun.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:I'm also fully aware sisters lose a lot of stats (the only one that ever really makes a difference is the toughness), for only 1 point of difference from a csm, however they also gain a 6++, and a 5+ DtW which means you go from a 1 in 6 chance to ruin a pink horror units day to a 1 in 3, that's halving the effectiveness of all offensive psychic powers against the unit, as well as free preferred enemy for a turn.
I forgot to mention that actually, a 5 sisters unit with veteran is the exact same price as a 5 chaos marine unit with aspiring champion. The one point difference is only for additional models. Really need to value that 6++ and AW…
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Post by: l0k1
Larry Vela posted this on bols
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/01/40k-rumors-dark-vengeance-minis-updated.html?m=1
For all you folks who loved the models in the Dark Vengeance set - word is they are getting the "fancy treatment" in the days ahead.
Sources have told us that many of the quick assembly minis in the Dark Vengeance set are getting the full treatment and arriving as fully-optioned multi-part plastic kits. The following are on the way:
-Helbrute with all the weapon options
-Chaos Cultist set with options for Plague Zombies
-Chaos Lord in clampack format said to be bits compatible with the existing CSM range.
-Chaos Chosen with buckets of god-specific bits including 5 heads per god.
-Obliterators/Mutilators combo-kit
-Chaos Havocs with all new visual designs for certain weapons.
Half of these will ship very soon, the other half closer to Summer.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Woops, ninja'd.
34328
Post by: l0k1
Gotcha! Lol
I'm really interested to see new sculpts for these. The Mutilator/Obliterator combo makes sense, plus I'm sure they don't sell very many Mutilators. The zombie upgrades for cultists could be cool. Though I am surprised that they'll be coming so soon. I know dwarves are supposed to be released next month and rumors suggested IG in March.
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Post by: Bull0
I really want this to be true, there's still a bit of room for growth in my CSM army for decent oblits and havocs. I'm not buying it though, really feels like wishlisting still. I really hope I'm proven wrong!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 Bull0 wrote:I'm not buying it though, really feels like wishlisting still.
My thoughts exactly. I can buy the clampack and the Havocs, maybe even the Chosen... but the rest? No.
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Post by: Nightlord1987
just when I finally got enough havocs, obliterators and zombies....
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Post by: 2x210
Is this thread to talk about the Long War Supplement?
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-long-war-supplement-veteran-skill.html?m=1
Because infiltrating Chosen? Relentless Havocs? Tank Hunter Oblits? Chaos just got fixed.
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Post by: Azreal13
Sounds like a lot of people would be happy about this.
It is on Natfka.
Two reasons why I view this with skepticism.
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Post by: Medium of Death
 azreal13 wrote:Sounds like a lot of people would be happy about this.
It is on Natfka.
Two reasons why I view this with skepticism.
Just beat me to it.Too good to be true.
Especially the "Dark Vengeance aesthetic" in a multipart kit. That's what we thought the Chaos dex releases would be like...
If it turns out to be true that would be amazing, but I refuse to get my hopes up.
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Post by: Achaylus72
As a pure collector and not a gamer i welcome this. I upgraded the Chosen from the Dark Vengeance edition to Chaos Lords and make up the inner santum of my CSM Army The Bonchrushers Legion.
I actually love the current codex, only on the basis of fluff, also i have combined both the current dex with the previous dex to kit out points allocation and have changed the current points. My CSM Army The Boncrusher Legion is 32,500 points.
On the issue of the whole range of current CSM that come out in Finecast will need to be redone as there is the current rumour that Finecast has been dropped, so i am looking at seeing all new resculpts and plastic Independent Characters.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Oh wow. You can buy Fear for 5 points per squad! YEAH!
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
Why the hell would Infiltrate be more expensive than Relentless?
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Post by: BlaxicanX
Assuming fear was the cheapest at 5 points per squad, I imagine infiltrate would be around 15-20 points per squad.
That... could be competitive, if you consider that Huron is 160 points for a 33% chance to only infiltrate a single squad, or three. By comparison, you could spend 60 points for guaranteed infiltrate for three squads, and spend that remaining 100 on a Chaos Lord with enough toys to be at least as beaty as Huron.
So, could be nice, if it's true. Could also be crap or non-existent, but eh. Games Workshop.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Because you assume those writing the rules understand the rules they are writing.
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Post by: Troike
Goresaw wrote:To be fair, they've abused the sisters so much I've considered them to be in a different system at this point, being be the least powerful fantasy army, behind wood elves and bretonians.
Oh they're not that bad. They can hold their own, just a little more challenging to play.
Hardly. Their digital codex sold very well, getting into the top books on iTunes at one point. As for the models, well, of course those are selling badly. All metal, expensive, order-only.
2x210 wrote:Is this thread to talk about the Long War Supplement?
So it's a supplement for a time period? That's new. Personally I'd prefer a supplement to flesh out a particular subfaction, but maybe this'll be cool too (assuming it's real).
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Post by: mitch_rifle
Reading the rumors, thinking about flicking off 40k but my god if its true this is where all my money from my army pay will be going
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Post by: MWHistorian
The fact that they've waited so long to sell the DV stuff separately is worrisome. It's good news, don't get me wrong, and I especially like the new havocs news. But why didn't they do this earlier?
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Post by: KaryudoDS
Bull0 wrote:I really want this to be true, there's still a bit of room for growth in my CSM army for decent oblits and havocs. I'm not buying it though, really feels like wishlisting still. I really hope I'm proven wrong!
Oh no, it completely makes sense to make a new kit to pack parts into when your Mutilator kit fails to impress anyone who's read the Rulebook.
I could see some reason for hope. I mean it made no sense what so ever to have Hellbrutes and Chosen in the starter box with no multi-part models anywhere to be seen right? Clearly they can't be stupid enough to not have those right? Right? Really, it doesn't even make sense to waste the ink giving the Hellbrute options if you never plan on making a kit for it. Those of us who like the convert stuff are fine either way but who releases books with units that lack properly matching models?
It is easy to doubt they'll get those models till 7th ed. and at that point you'll be lucky to even get one of those on the list while they add other new units to the book since they never bother to tell us anything. I guess you have to get people to buy extra starter sets somehow. I suppose the worst case here is fine for me though, I have a big enough backlog of things to paint that I wouldn't get to painting them all that soon anyway. Unless they did come out and would probably look good enough I wanted to paint them first anyway  Automatically Appended Next Post:  MWHistorian wrote:The fact that they've waited so long to sell the DV stuff separately is worrisome. It's good news, don't get me wrong, and I especially like the new havocs news. But why didn't they do this earlier?
Might have to do with their release schedule and having to do as much as they have had for the other armies. Would be my guess though I doubt we'll ever get a real answer.
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Post by: BunkerBob
MWHistorian wrote:The fact that they've waited so long to sell the DV stuff separately is worrisome. It's good news, don't get me wrong, and I especially like the new havocs news. But why didn't they do this earlier?
Simple reasoning in my mind, do not flood a market when most players collect a single army at a time. Release some now, let people commit, then boom give them what they want after it has died down. It is a nice double dip strategy for money. I despise snap fit.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
If this Supplement is true, then i will be glad to alligne a whole World eater force with all models who have PE or Fleet+Shred.
But it also sounds like not all the Specialists rules will be buyable by all the units, the rumors says that While Havocs can buy relentless, they can't buy infiltration, a game balance thingy i think?
juts hope that they din't put some silly restriction on models with the MoK, i can live with my boys been unable to infiltrate, but if they rule out PE or Shred for moK models, that would be a stupid dick move.
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Post by: l0k1
MWHistorian wrote:The fact that they've waited so long to sell the DV stuff separately is worrisome. It's good news, don't get me wrong, and I especially like the new havocs news. But why didn't they do this earlier?
They probably did it simply to get them out so 3rd party companies wouldn't/couldn't make their own versions, then when schedule permitted, they could go back and do multi part versions and hopefully get people to buy those.
As far as this supplement goes, it worries me a little. I can deal with older models, better rules are what we need. From the rumors, I get the impression that only units that have votlw will get to purchase these extra rules. While not a major thing for a few units, on an army wide scale this could make the army as expensive as a full Black Legion army. I'll reserve judgment until I see it. I'll still pray to the dark gods we get some sort of legion/traitor tactics.
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Post by: sennacherib
RUMORs.
however. I won't be buying any new chaos figs apart from the possible purchase of a hell chicken. The rules on the other hand, if true, and dare i say it, written by someone less out of touch than the writer of the last dex, could possibly sway me to purchase them.
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
Really, at this point I want GW to just say "**** it" and release Codex: CSM ver. 6.5, just like they did before.
I do NOT want to go into a game having to look through a crap codex plus 2 or more supplements/dataslates/FAQs just to have a decent playable army.
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Post by: Spellbound
Meh. As someone else said: I will do whatever, as long as the rules are GOOD.
Make Lucius's rules into a coded 40k novel, where every 6th letter is used to spell out the rules over the course of the whole book. If he works well on the tabletop, I'll use it.
SOOOOO excited for a Slaanesh supplement.
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Post by: Ashiraya
 l0k1 wrote:Larry Vela posted this on bols
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/01/40k-rumors-dark-vengeance-minis-updated.html?m=1
For all you folks who loved the models in the Dark Vengeance set - word is they are getting the "fancy treatment" in the days ahead.
Sources have told us that many of the quick assembly minis in the Dark Vengeance set are getting the full treatment and arriving as fully-optioned multi-part plastic kits. The following are on the way:
-Helbrute with all the weapon options
-Chaos Cultist set with options for Plague Zombies
-Chaos Lord in clampack format said to be bits compatible with the existing CSM range.
-Chaos Chosen with buckets of god-specific bits including 5 heads per god.
-Obliterators/Mutilators combo-kit
-Chaos Havocs with all new visual designs for certain weapons.
Half of these will ship very soon, the other half closer to Summer.
I'd love if this was true. But sorry, I ain't buying it. A new Mutilator kit? Really? GW won't do that until 8th-9th edition at least. The models are horrid but they are somewhat new, so GW won't update 'em.
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Post by: l0k1
With GW phasing out Finecast, it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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Post by: CadianXV
I'd buy the Chaos equivalent of the Sternguard kit in a heartbeat.
A plethora of bits spread through standard CSM squads would really lift the aesthetic of an army that sorely needs it. The Dark Vengeance and Raptors Minis really show what the Chaos kine could be, and I'd love to see that made a reality.
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Post by: logg_frogg
If this is true my wallet is sadly open.
Plastic chaos crack addiction FTW
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Post by: Sasori
So many rumors I would love to be true.
Larry Vela got broken my Nidmegaddon. Naftka...Yeah...
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Post by: Kroothawk
Sounds a bit like they desperately want to release all completed products with or without a Codex, before GW hits the dust.
Like a cancelled TV show that is given the chance to complete all plot strings in the last 5 episodes.
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Post by: wuestenfux
Well, I do not really understand GW's release policy. They provide a new codex in January and in the same month they release some new CSM models. How many GW enthusiasts will buy these new kits? Gamers maybe not so much, but collectors of course.
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Post by: kronk
That's why it's fake. These guys are just telling people what they want to hear to drive up hits to their blogs. It's 100% about selling ads. They'll post anything.
If people stopped going to these places, they'd stop lying about gak.
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Post by: VyRa
kronk wrote:
That's why it's fake. These guys are just telling people what they want to hear to drive up hits to their blogs. It's 100% about selling ads. They'll post anything.
If people stopped going to these places, they'd stop lying about gak.
Pretty much this. If any of those numerous kits would hit the shelves in the next month, we would be seeing something about them on next month's White Dwarf cover. But there's simply nothing there. So all of this is wishlisting from Faeit - as usual.
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Post by: Chad Warden
 VyRa wrote:
Pretty much this. If any of those numerous kits would hit the shelves in the next month, we would be seeing something about them on next month's White Dwarf cover. But there's simply nothing there. So all of this is wishlisting from Faeit - as usual.
Ah, but White Dwarf isnt monthly anymore.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
'Tis true
The latest leak is the 'new' weekly WD which has Dwarf releases in, but that's only February week 1
There's 3 more magazines to before February is done
(* that's not so say the Chaos rumours are true though)
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Post by: VyRa
Good point, i completly phased out of the whole White Dwarf thing, so it kinda went by me that this new four-issues-a-month-thing is already going on by next month.
However, i still remain highly sceptical. This would be the first "wave" (meaning unattached to any codex-release) since when exactly? The last wave i can remember would be the Dark Eldar back in early- to mid-2011, so it just seems unlikely that GW would revive that sales strategy again.
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Post by: Azreal13
Plastic daemon kits in 2012, and I think there was one more, but it escapes me just now.
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Post by: BrotherOfBone
At first glance I'm hoping for a Space Wolves sort of pack, with all the conversion bits for multiple different squads but alas, this will probably never happen..
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Post by: Kirasu
I tend to doubt any rumors that might show that gw understands how boring the csm codex is
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Post by: Quintinus
 Kirasu wrote:I tend to doubt any rumors that might show that gw understands how boring the com codex is
Even if they release them, it's too late. They already blew their load with a codex that is only second to the Tyranid codex in terms of sheer lack of inspiration and people have moved on. Plus these won't sell unless they are durrr muh plague mureenzzz lol i love nurgal XDDDD
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Post by: Medium of Death
azreal13 wrote:Plastic daemon kits in 2012, and I think there was one more, but it escapes me just now.
Was the flyrant and co. after or just before that?
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
According to the latest news, Dreads, Preds and Lr can also take some of the Vets skills, Tank Hunter was used in the exemple.
Also A Lord can take any of the skills, and they all cost 5pts for the Lord.
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Post by: VyRa
Sounds exactly like CSM 3.5
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
We can only hope.
Nevertheless, the idea that they'd release an entire book just so CSM players can take Vet skills seems a bit thin really. We know that people at the design studio are capable of writing concise Legion rules (1-2 pages of special rules for each Legion in the new HH books by FW), so why that can't be done in a 40K supplement is beyond me.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Most likely this Vets thing will be a dataslate, since like you put it, only for Vets rules, its to thin for a Supplement.
So maybe 20pages of fluff about the Legions and the aftermath of the Siege of Terra, 10 gallery pages with painted models from each Legion and then the pages about the Vets skills, maybe a few Altar of War Missions in the mix...
All for 10-12$
But of what has been said, this dataslate Vets skills will be applicable to all existing Chaos books and futur chaos Supplement.
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Post by: boyd
My chaos army is complete. Unless they release more cultists that resemble the cawdor necromunda gang, there is nothing I'm interested in.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
Flat point costs for abilities? Seems like GW still can't figure out proper cost management is key to producing balanced rules.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 His Master's Voice wrote:Flat point costs for abilities? Seems like GW still can't figure out proper cost management is key to producing balanced rules.
You're ruling out other possibilities:
1. Apathy/they don't care.
2. Ignorance/they don't understand that.
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Post by: Goresaw
No, they want us to FAQ house rule their own rules. We already assemble the models, we should be able to assemble rules too.
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Post by: catharsix
 Vladsimpaler wrote: Kirasu wrote:I tend to doubt any rumors that might show that gw understands how boring the com codex is
Even if they release them, it's too late. They already blew their load with a codex that is only second to the Tyranid codex in terms of sheer lack of inspiration and people have moved on. Plus these won't sell unless they are durrr muh plague mureenzzz lol i love nurgal XDDDD
Bolded for truth. I just can't understand why so many people (besides just really mediocre but enthusiastic converters) love Nurgle so dang much...
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
 catharsix wrote:
Bolded for truth. I just can't understand why so many people (besides just really mediocre but enthusiastic converters) love Nurgle so dang much...
Nurgle is perfect when you are a mediocre painter, a littel bit of green a little bit of yellow smeared over and a lot of brown and ink and tada!!
I do not say that everyone who makes Nurgle do it because you don't have to know how to paint to make them, just that a lot of people i know think they are good, because the model looks disgusting...
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Post by: His Master's Voice
H.B.M.C. wrote: His Master's Voice wrote:Flat point costs for abilities? Seems like GW still can't figure out proper cost management is key to producing balanced rules.
You're ruling out other possibilities:
1. Apathy/they don't care.
2. Ignorance/they don't understand that.
I'm willing to believe the some people writing the rules at GW know how they should be written. But you can't make up a pricing system out of thin air and nail it to existing body of rules as complex as those of 40k, it has to be built along with the core rules and incorporated into every codex. I mean, GW used to have a benchmark statline for a time - the Marine. It wasn't much, at didn't solve the issue of cost scaling on non stat parts of the rules set, but it was there if anyone cared to look for it. And then they started changing the cost of the Marines. So either they lost the last anchor to a consistent point cost evaluation, or the whole system started shifting.
Either doesn't work.
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
Dare I hope this will make other monogod lists besides Nurgle viable?
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Post by: Goresaw
I think relentless noise marines... provided the cost is right for said relentless, could be a pretty formidable force.
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
Goresaw wrote:I think relentless noise marines... provided the cost is right for said relentless, could be a pretty formidable force.
Supposedly its cheaper than Infiltrate which is the most expensive ability (why I'll never know) at the very least..
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Post by: l0k1
Goresaw wrote:I think relentless noise marines... provided the cost is right for said relentless, could be a pretty formidable force.
This! I wish that Khorne units could add 'assault vehicle' rules to rhinos. That might make them viable.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Maybe in a futur Dataslate/WE Supplement who knows...
But even if they only become Open-topped, i'd still be glad, we could finaly Rhino Rush like the old days...
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Post by: sennacherib
Ok. Enough with the Nurgle hate. People choose gods for different reasons. I chose nurgle because i wanted to do the conversions, loved the fluff etc. I have spent way more time on my nurgle marines than i have on my other armies. Its way harder to do a good job on Nurgle than it is to just spray something red and then dry brush it a bit. 
seriously. Wish listing aside. I just want a codex that has some effort put into making it balanced, flexible and fun to play.
WE have ZERO outflanking units.
NO means to deep strike scoring units into our enemies deployment zones (outside of allies)
No infiltrators.
Our special rule is actually more hurtful than it is helpful.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I've got a Death Guard army as well (from back when that actually meant something). They're a fun army.
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Post by: pretre
Larry Vela from BOLS, jumping on the silly train:
Sources have told us that many of the quick assembly minis in the Dark Vengeance set are getting the full treatment and arriving as fully-optioned multi-part plastic kits. The following are on the way:
-Helbrute with all the weapon options
-Chaos Cultist set with options for Plague Zombies
-Chaos Lord in clampack format said to be bits compatible with the existing CSM range.
-Chaos Chosen with buckets of god-specific bits including 5 heads per god.
-Obliterators/Mutilators combo-kit
-Chaos Havocs with all new visual designs for certain weapons.
Half of these will ship very soon, the other half closer to Summer.
/facepalm That's a lot of kits to predict for a non-codex release.
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Post by: Azreal13
Vela posting this has essentially nixed this for me, am I right in thinking that predicting the opposite of what he says would probably get one a better track record on the rumourmonger tracker?
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Post by: erratyk
 pretre wrote:Larry Vela from BOLS, jumping on the silly train:
Sources have told us that many of the quick assembly minis in the Dark Vengeance set are getting the full treatment and arriving as fully-optioned multi-part plastic kits. The following are on the way:
-Helbrute with all the weapon options
-Chaos Cultist set with options for Plague Zombies
-Chaos Lord in clampack format said to be bits compatible with the existing CSM range.
-Chaos Chosen with buckets of god-specific bits including 5 heads per god.
-Obliterators/Mutilators combo-kit
-Chaos Havocs with all new visual designs for certain weapons.
Half of these will ship very soon, the other half closer to Summer.
/facepalm
That's a lot of kits to predict for a non-codex release.
Not sure why it seems like such a facepalmy idea,
With the exception of havocs and oblits/mutilators, none of these have a decent set available, with most only being available from the DV set which are being ebayed like crazy,
The havoc set is outdated and could be upgraded, and the mutilators are such a bad option that they probably don't sell well and they probably wouldn't lose out on combining the 2 kits and jacking up the price as usual.
That's just my 2 cents though
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Post by: pretre
azreal13 wrote:Vela posting this has essentially nixed this for me, am I right in thinking that predicting the opposite of what he says would probably get one a better track record on the rumourmonger tracker?
Yep. He basically just shovels drek at this point. His accuracy on Nids was miserable.
Larry Vela aka Big Red - Total rumors: ( 70 TRUE) / ( 83 FALSE) / ( 6 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
erratyk wrote:Not sure why it seems like such a facepalmy idea,
6 new plastic kits for a non-codex release. When have we ever seen something like that? Also, retooling/rereleasing snap fits from a starter box?
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Post by: erratyk
Fair enough 
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Well its been over a year that we wait for those kits, and there is a campaigne Featuring Chaos marines that is coming.
I think that would be a good thing to release new Chaos models by that time, if not only for the purpose of giving new models for the new players and such.
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Post by: pretre
From Faeit
QnA Session wrote:
Thanks for the excellent rumours! 1) is the new vet skill permanent to the squad, unlike a banner?
2) Any idea if it can be used with the BL supplement, or just the codex?
1.Skills are permament.
2. The supplement can be used with ANY chaos supplement not just the BL supplement. Future supplements may have restrictions on what skills may be taken however
Is FNP purchasable?
FNP is not purchasable I'm afraid
Do you know if all of the skills will be available to all units with VotLW, or if each unit will have a separate selection of skills to choose from? On a related note, will it be a flat cost to upgrade or unit or will different units have to pay different amounts for each skill?
Basically each skill has a list of units underneath it . Any unit on the list may take the skill. Certain units are not on the list due to whatever reason. The example I was given was havoc can't take the fleet skill.
All skills cost the same no matter what unit takes them.
Are the different legions mentioned in the supplement, or is this just a way to expand upon the Chaos Marine codex? Can you take more than one upgrade?
Yup, there's a limit of three skills I think per squad however. To answer your original question the legions are mentioned in fluff only. The supplement is really just Codex chaos space marines +1.
if it unlocks Stubborn at a decent unit price.... Man I'll be bringing some big ol CSM blobs to the party.
Stubborn was one of the cheaper skills I think, at around 8 or ten points. I'm not sure if that's a decent price as I don't play sixth ed
8 or 10 for the whole squad right??
All prices are for the whole unit. Hq's skills are 5pts each
Can you still take mark upgrades while also taking these vet upgrades?
Marks can still be taken by the squad along with banners.
what's the projected release date for this mini-supplement?
This is a bit of a mystery to me, it's a week 4 release in the new weekly white dwarf, all I really know is its coming soon. I'm expecting it to be out within 3 months at max
Can Plague marines take infiltrate? Can Terminators take infiltrate? Does shred apply to all weapons, or just melee weapons? Thanks!
Terminator's can't take infiltrate, plague marines can I believe. Shred is for melee weapons only
I'm not sure about the infiltrate on the thousand sons. Fearless is a skill that pretty much every unit can take, terminator included
can mutilators get fleet?
I don't think oblits or mutilators can take any skills at all, I will have to double check in a few days time to confirm for certain
Can HQ's with VotLW take any of the USR upgrades?
Yep, hq's can take the skills, they have access to every skill I think
If I can put Stuborn on my CSMs and not have it be shot out like the fearless banner, then assuming it's no more then 25 points, I think that will solve the biggest problem for CSMs as a unit, leadership.
Stubborn was around 10 points as far as I can remember
Will the Rumored models (New CSMs, Lord, Etc.) be released alongside this supplement?
Yesh.
Is there anything else in this supplement, let's say FOC modification?
Is Infiltration really costy?
Nope its nothing but skills I'm afraid. I'm no too sure if it's a full supplement or a big dataslate. I wasn't paying that much attention to begin with.
Infiltration is 20pts a unit
HQ skills are 5pts each
All other units share the same skill price
Future?
Future digital products WILL include free stuff for units of a comparable quality to chapter tactics.
i just want something to give my noise marine rending so i can pretend that they are palatine blades
Rending may be on the skill lists. I can't confirm for a few days
Does the unit ~have~ to take the VotLW upgrade in order to qualify to be able to take an available USR upgrade on the unit?
For now yes, future downloadable content is likely to change this or make the Votlw upgrade free
I also suspect that none of the Walkers can benefit from this?
Walkers can benefit from a few skills, tank hunter being one which I can remember currently
from your perspective is the pairing between the unit and what the skills offer at least viable?
Most units can take the majority of the skill sets. There are essentially pointless upgrade skills but you can still take them for whatever reason. It's very much a choose whatever you want kinda thing
All I play is Thousand Sons. Not really interested in what happens with Mark of Tzeentch CSMs but I am interested if you could describe what you know about the plastic god-specific bits (if anything)?
Tzeentch heads are similar to the current thousand son heads, on head is also a very nice bird mask helmet.
Nurgle heads include a mixture of gasmasky heads and a head with its brain exposed.
Khorne heads are horney, spikey helmetty heads.
Slaanesh heads include a hellraiser Esq pinhead. Helmets heads have stretched skin, tounges and big speaker grills
Now, it is a 10man kit? Are there any "sorcerer" looking things, or a tabard? Maybe a nice force staff?
It is a ten man kit, there are a few tabardy things that go in between legs. The spear could be possibly converted to a staff without too much trouble I think
o Walkers can also get these skills!? All our Walkers? How does this work, as they can't take Veterans of the Long War - They have just access to these skills by default? Will they get further upgrades like Marks/Dedications so they something god-specific?
Just dreadnoughts, predators and land raiders to my knowledge. I'm not sure how it works with vehicles tbh, I will find out and include it hopefully in my next info batch.
Marks/dedications are not present CURRENTLY
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Post by: l0k1
Hmmmm those sound almost too good to be true. Especially the part about future products giving free stuff comparable to chapter tactics. I still remain skeptical but extremely hopeful.
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Post by: Azreal13
At this point it's either true, or the most determined troll for some time.
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Post by: Chad Warden
Fixing Kelly's terrible codex with DLC? With more to come?
Meh.
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Post by: catharsix
I am so hoping this is true (or enough of it to be nice). The codex releases were such a HUGE disappointment (with the exception of the Aspiring Champ, who's a great fig though expensive and monopose).
If this could give us useful infantry, and, even better, use the awesome DV aesthetic, I'd spend some serious scratch. I'm already saving some pennies in the old Paypal account...
-C6
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Post by: Eldarain
It reads way more like a wishlist than a release leak to me. I'd love for even a fraction of it to be true though.
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Post by: pretre
It is almost certainly not true, but oh well. That's Natfka for you.
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Post by: Lockark
I know i'm being trolled but....
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Post by: tomjoad
H.B.M.C. wrote: His Master's Voice wrote:Flat point costs for abilities? Seems like GW still can't figure out proper cost management is key to producing balanced rules.
You're ruling out other possibilities:
1. Apathy/they don't care.
2. Ignorance/they don't understand that.
Making the skills a flat cost actually makes sense from GWs point of view. It incentivizes 20-man blobs, which requires you to own at least 40 marines. If it was a per-model cost, you would need a minimum of 10 marines, which we can agree they do not like as much.
Plus, there are game balance reasons for which this is defensible as well. Essentially, if we accept that MSU is 'better,' then the rules NEED to give you a reason to take large squads. Obviously MSU v max-size-units is a whole other debate, but if GW believe MSU to be more powerful, it is sensible and correct for them to price the abilities in this way.
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Post by: Voodoo_Chile
I have to stop checking these threads. I don't want to be hurt again
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Post by: Extreaminatus
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
I want this to be true, but it is it would directly contradict Naftka's other rumor that GW doesn't give a damn about balance or competitive rules.
Given GW's track record, I'm inclined to believe the latter.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Always feels that way with Chaos, doesn't it?
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Post by: Vhalyar
Slaanesh only hurts us because it loves us.
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Post by: Vash108
I really want some new sculpts for my Chaos Marines. Especially Havocs so I can actually kit them out how I want them.
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Post by: sennacherib
Doubtful.
still, its nice to believe that GW would release something that sucks less than the current CSM codex.
Lets face it. GW has been sucking for a while. If they make any update it will be either worthless or overpowered. No middle aground with them.
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Post by: mitch_rifle
Something that got me thinking as well was that in the chaos codex, the DV chaos marines and hellbrute were used quite alot in all the pictures throughout the dex
It seems that those models took center stage even though they aren't available for individual sale, i always thought there was something up with that
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Post by: RiTides
All those plastics seem a bit unlikely, particularly given the rumor sources... would love to be wrong about that, though.
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Post by: Kosake
There's been some talk about GW getting rid of all their metal. I think some popular UK company ran out of obliterators and couldn't even get new ones from GW.
So maybe there is *some* truth in it.
What I think may be true: There is no GW retail model for chaos dread/hellbrute anymore --> good candidate for a new kit.
I think there actually is a small snap-fit kit of DV cultists available for 8€ or something. Making a larger box (maybe not customizeable but snap-fit, basically just selling the DV sprue) may be quite doable.
What I doubt is that all of this goodness will rain on us in such a short time. So far I've heard these rumours for chaos alone:
* 4 seperate Supplements for the Chaos Gods to make Demon-Marine-Armies
* Veterans of the Long War supplement with new rules for vets
* That giant list of new Boxes (CSM/chosen combi, cultists, hellbrutes, havocs, obliterator-thatotherthing-combi)
Let's be honest, GW can't get it's ass up from the couch to actually give orks a new codex since 4th edition. The chances that there's so much chaos to come in one go (and 6 months release duration can still be considered "one go" for this purpose) are imaginary at best.
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Post by: Brother SRM
 Kosake wrote:There's been some talk about GW getting rid of all their metal. I think some popular UK company ran out of obliterators and couldn't even get new ones from GW.
So maybe there is *some* truth in it.
Oblits are in Finecast, as is everything else that was metal for Chaos Space Marines. These rumors are too good to be true, but if there was validity in any of them I think I'd be pretty happy with it.
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Post by: Indestry
 Brother SRM wrote: Kosake wrote:There's been some talk about GW getting rid of all their metal. I think some popular UK company ran out of obliterators and couldn't even get new ones from GW.
So maybe there is *some* truth in it.
Oblits are in Finecast, as is everything else that was metal for Chaos Space Marines. These rumors are too good to be true, but if there was validity in any of them I think I'd be pretty happy with it.
There's still some Metal Lords for sale, they're the generic sorcerlords/Termy Lords.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Oh yeah, I guess the Khorne Berserker champions are still metal too if they even still carry them. Regardless, everything that's a core option in the codex is represented in plastic or Finecast at this point.
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Post by: Indestry
Yeah, it'd be nice though if Oblits become plastic. There are some nice bits for them and the Mutilators if they were.
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Post by: Quintinus
 sennacherib wrote:Ok. Enough with the Nurgle hate. People choose gods for different reasons.
Yeah yeah, funny how everyone seemed to pick Nurgle this edition. I chose nurgle because i wanted to do the conversions, loved the fluff etc. I have spent way more time on my nurgle marines than i have on my other armies. Its way harder to do a good job on Nurgle than it is to just spray something red and then dry brush it a bit.
You and the other million players who spam plague marines and heldrakes and defend it by saying "but I love nurgal!!!!"
seriously. Wish listing aside. I just want a codex that has some effort put into making it balanced, flexible and fun to play.
Hahaha dude it's 2014. It's been more than a year since the abortion that was the Phail Kelly codex; we're not getting a new one anytime soon. Oh well, at least you can "love the nurgal fluff XDDD" and its "totally disgusting! (x2)" models
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Post by: l0k1
In defense of plague marines, with current dex, plague marines are an incredible buy and out shine just about every other possible troop choice. Cultists are good simply because they're so cheap and can be taken in blobs. Noise marines are the only other ones that come close and when you figure in blastmasters and IoE they become rather expensive and still less durable than plagues.
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Post by: Kirasu
Wait, plague marines are the best troop choice? Oh..yeah I forgot it's been like since 4th edition, nothing new :p
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Post by: l0k1
Lol sorry I picked up csm last year so I wasn't privy to such info :p
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Have GW actually done an impromptu minis update before? This rumour feels more like a wishlist is all.
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Post by: Azreal13
angelofvengeance wrote:Have GW actually done an impromptu minis update before? This rumour feels more like a wishlist is all.
We've had a few mini waves, Daemons and Nids both got one relatively recently. Plus, with the new connection between weekly WD and new releases, past behaviour isn't really any predictor of future at this point.
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Post by: SarisKhan
I do hope at least some of those rumours will turn out true... Not that I picked CSM to be competitive. They're my favourite WH40k faction and I'll play them no matter what.
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Post by: Palindrome
I've played Deathguard since 2nd ed (when half my army was Beastmen and Chaos warriors). Every single squad in my army is in multiples of 7, everything has the MoN and there isn't a vehicle in it (flying or otherwise). Its extremely safe to say that the current state of the game has absolutely nothing to do with my army choice. Not everyone is a WAAC player.
The best policy on these rumours is simply to wait out. There is a reasonable chance that some of them may be true but definately not all and we won't know either way for a while.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
So far with what we have we can see a bit of the futur.
There is 5 plastic CSM kits rumored to hit us, Clampack Lord, CSM/Chosen and Havocs in the weeks/months to come, with/out a Veteran dataslate.
The rest of the Kits are said to come out in the summer, namely the Helbrute and the Cultists/Plaque zombies.
With in the latest a Crimson Slaughter dataslate/Supplment, and in September we have the Kaizerslautern Campaign, with Imperials Vs Chaos, with a new boxset with models and an updated( including all the FaQs and Stronghold) mini rule book, wich as they stated wil not be 7th Ed, it will still be 6th, just updated ala Chapter Approved Compendium.
It kinda all links together when you look at it, of course its a slingshot, but still.
We allready had leaked pictures of this kaizerslautern thing, and we know that GW needs to release a Cultists, Chosen and dread kits, for new players at least, or even for those who wish to expand their existing force.
So while nothing is 100% sure, i still stay confident about it.
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
I might be reaching here, but if Mutilators can take infiltrate and/or outflank they might actually become viable, as with MoN or MoT they're actually tough enough to survive the turn of shooting before they can assault.
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Post by: MWHistorian
How I know the rumors aren't true.
A. The fans want this.
B. It would be cool.
C. It would make Chaos less boring.
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Post by: WarOne
MWHistorian wrote:How I know the rumors aren't true.
A. The fans want this.
B. It would be cool.
C. It would make Chaos less boring.
In this context, I would totally support a bit of an overhaul with a codex just to make it more interesting to play even if viability doesn't exactly climb through the roof.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Almost like a 6.5, wouldn't you say?
All .5 Codices are better.
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Post by: sennacherib
 WarOne wrote: MWHistorian wrote:How I know the rumors aren't true.
A. The fans want this.
B. It would be cool.
C. It would make Chaos less boring.
In this context, I would totally support a bit of an overhaul with a codex just to make it more interesting to play even if viability doesn't exactly climb through the roof.
I couldn't agree more. I recently sold my imperials stuff off and i have to say that there are a few things that chaos lacks seriously.
1. Fliers with with a transport capacity. Chibi-hawks would be nice, the ability to carry a dread, troops or a land raider into combat (much less the chibi-hawks missiles or melta payload would be nice).
2. Fast skimmers with a transport capacity (or just a fast skimmer). Thinking here about land speeder storm which is a cheap potentially deadly troop transport with melta payload. Pretty awesome.
3. Drop pod (duh)
4. Ability to take bikes or terminators as troops.
5. anything that outflanks or has the infiltrate special rule would be nice.
I have said it before, chaos lacks the flexibility that the imperials have. We are currently very static as an army which makes 1/3 of the deployments in one off games pretty hard to win. Our army wide rule is more of a penalty than a boon. there are some unique units (spawn and the demon engine) but for the most part imperials have all the toys.
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Post by: KaryudoDS
angelofvengeance wrote:Have GW actually done an impromptu minis update before? This rumour feels more like a wishlist is all.
The current Fire Prism is one of those minis updates and it was also a new unit entirely. So yes, they have. Just not very often and I think with the metal in the old one they had a good excuse to do that one but at the same time I think they have a better excuse to do the Chaos kits since they don't even sell them yet, or happen to be Havocs (which are just a complete joke compared to the Devastator kit).
I agree it looks like a wishlist to me, because we for some reason haven't gotten these things yet. At the same time GW did eventually get around to making Wolves for the Space Wolves...long after people bought their wolf mini's from other games already anyway but having units in the book you don't have multi-part models for can never be bad right? 
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Post by: Barfolomew
So GW wants me to buy the *&%# 6th Edition rules and @#$%* CSM codex and then buy the CSM data slates. That's $125+.
GTFO.
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Post by: Kosake
Barfolomew wrote:So GW wants me to buy the *&%# 6th Edition rules and @#$%* CSM codex and then buy the CSM data slates. That's $125+.
GTFO.
You forget the supplements, escalation, deescalation and kindergarten-sandbox-war additions with at least two new and unnecessary special rules each!
So make it $300+ without a cent spent on models or paint
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Post by: pretre
H.B.M.C. wrote:Almost like a 6.5, wouldn't you say?
All .5 Codices are better.
Tyranids say hi!
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Post by: Extreaminatus
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Post by: pretre
Umm, is it? Because there was no indication of a joke in that original post. I know you were just waiting to pop that image link, but...
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Post by: Troike
Kosake wrote:Barfolomew wrote:So GW wants me to buy the *&%# 6th Edition rules and @#$%* CSM codex and then buy the CSM data slates. That's $125+.
GTFO.
You forget the supplements, escalation, deescalation and kindergarten-sandbox-war additions with at least two new and unnecessary special rules each!
So make it $300+ without a cent spent on models or paint
But only the rulebook and codex are mandatory. All of those other things are optional.
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Post by: Kosake
 Troike wrote: Kosake wrote:Barfolomew wrote:So GW wants me to buy the *&%# 6th Edition rules and @#$%* CSM codex and then buy the CSM data slates. That's $125+.
GTFO.
You forget the supplements, escalation, deescalation and kindergarten-sandbox-war additions with at least two new and unnecessary special rules each!
So make it $300+ without a cent spent on models or paint
But only the rulebook and codex are mandatory. All of those other things are optional.
Yes, it's totally optional to actually get your stuff fixed and working (Veteran rumor), make fluffy armies (Black legion + the rumorous 4 god-expansions) get own heavies in there when any schoolkid with a rich daddy fields a baneblade (escalation i think) or just even have half as many options as loyalist space marines (possible slates. nothing released so far but will probably come at some point). Definitely nothing that should be packed into the codex as it is....
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Post by: Troike
Yes, those things are optional. As in you don't need them to start playing, and can purchase them at your leisure. Not sure why you're trying to make out that they're mandatory purchases when they're clearly not.
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Post by: tomjoad
If you don't think you can use literally any codex to make a fluffy army, sans any sort of supplemental material, you aren't actually trying.
IF you meant "a fluffy army that is also tournament caliber," however...well, yeah. You can't do that. That's why fluffy armies and competitive armies have different terminology. They're different things.
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Post by: Palindrome
You can actually, you just can't do it with poorly designed games.
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Post by: tomjoad
If you demand good game design, I'd suggest that Games Workshop is not the company for you.
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Post by: pretre
There's a game where you can take any old fluffy army/list and it is still tournament calibre? Count me as skeptical.
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Post by: Extreaminatus
pretre wrote:
Umm, is it? Because there was no indication of a joke in that original post. I know you were just waiting to pop that image link, but...
I know you were just waiting to say something about that image link, but...I saw a bunch of sarcasm in H.B.M.C.'s post there, insinuating that the Nidother .5 'dexes weren't spectacular.
Sorry if I'm reading things too sarcastically, or if you're not reading them sarcastically enough.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I'm pretty sure H.B.M.C. meant Chaos 3.5 and IG 3.5
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Post by: Extreaminatus
You're right. I was looking at "Tyranids say hi" and just put in "nid".
I've edited my post to correct the error.
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Post by: Palindrome
 tomjoad wrote:
If you demand good game design, I'd suggest that Games Workshop is not the company for you.
It's not anymore.
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Post by: pretre
It never had been. I love GW and even I accept that. Automatically Appended Next Post: lord_blackfang wrote:I'm pretty sure H.B.M.C. meant Chaos 3.5 and IG 3.5
Extreaminatus wrote:You're right. I was looking at "Tyranids say hi" and just put in "nid".
I've edited my post to correct the error.
Yeah, I'm not seeing that. Unless he's not responding to the post before him, in which case that's a 'failure to quote'.
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Post by: Palindrome
pretre wrote:
It never had been. I love GW and even I accept that.
It wasn't far off in the mid/late 90's. GW has never been very strong on balancing but at least it could turn out some decent rules once.
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Post by: pretre
 Palindrome wrote: pretre wrote:
It never had been. I love GW and even I accept that.
It wasn't far off in the mid/late 90's. GW has never been very strong on balancing but at least it could turn out some decent rules once.
2nd and 3rd edition were 'decent rules'. Ugh. I guess we just have very different opinions of what 'decent rules' are. 4 hour hero/termi hammer or chopped down black book? I'll take 5th/6th edition any day over those.
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Post by: Palindrome
Battlefleet Gothic, Mordheim and Necromunda (I know both have dubious campaign rules), Epic Armageddon, in fact basically all of the Specalist games, even Epic 40k wasn't all that bad.
The 'core' rules have always been a bit ropey. My 2nd ed games tended to last 2 hours (around the time that a game of 6th ed takes actually) and I played IG infantry, I'm not sure where people get the impression that 2nd ed took hours to play.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
tomjoad wrote:If you don't think you can use literally any codex to make a fluffy army, sans any sort of supplemental material, you aren't actually trying.
With Sisters you either can not make fluffy army, or can not make unfluffy army. Because no matter what you do, you will end up with a ton of Sisters in power armor, and vehicles on a rhino chassis  .
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Post by: Theophony
Palindrome wrote: pretre wrote:
It never had been. I love GW and even I accept that.
It wasn't far off in the mid/late 90's. GW has never been very strong on balancing but at least it could turn out some decent rules once.
Problem is too many armies, too much variety. Mantic works fine now, but once they hit 8+ armies the interaction if the rules will begin to break. I played both 40k and fantasy back then, and remember armies being tabled all the time by "the new codex/army book" because they created the new beat stick.
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Post by: boyd
Palindrome wrote:Battlefleet Gothic, Mordheim and Necromunda (I know both have dubious campaign rules), Epic Armageddon, in fact basically all of the Specalist games, even Epic 40k wasn't all that bad.
The 'core' rules have always been a bit ropey. My 2nd ed games tended to last 2 hours (around the time that a game of 6th ed takes actually) and I played IG infantry, I'm not sure where people get the impression that 2nd ed took hours to play.
2nd edition didn't take as long to play because you had half the models on the table. A 10 man tactical squad cost 300 points base before weapons, war gear, and other options. If you played orcs or tyrannids and got into hth combat, that took time because each model fought separately. It only got out of hand when you had some 8 guys fighting 1 character and the character cut all 8 of them down in one turn. Moving, shooting, and psychic powers were all quick. Hand to hand combat was where it broke down. Thats where it broke down in third edition too. 3rd just had conflicting rules in the rule book special weapons only worked against those models in base to base but the example in the book was that the supporting attack used the special rules. It made for all sorts of arguments and was never errata'ed properly because they took the example out online and then they changed it back a year later in the published FAQ. That was when I took my 4 year hiatus from the game and came into the tail end of 4th edition. Automatically Appended Next Post: pretre wrote: Palindrome wrote: pretre wrote:
It never had been. I love GW and even I accept that.
It wasn't far off in the mid/late 90's. GW has never been very strong on balancing but at least it could turn out some decent rules once.
2nd and 3rd edition were 'decent rules'. Ugh. I guess we just have very different opinions of what 'decent rules' are. 4 hour hero/termi hammer or chopped down black book? I'll take 5th/6th edition any day over those.
I will say for the most part the game has improved. There are some things I like more than others but overall, the game has been getting better each edition. In real life, characters aren't the focal point of an army. Sure they support it, but for the most part they aren't game changers. Troops have always been the backbone and you can win or lose based on them alone. When I could put 6 models on the table and use the rest of my army as chaffe to get to your line and kill you, it wasn't a fun game any longer. If Ragnar and 5 termies with assault cannons and cyclone missile launchers could wipe your entire army off the table when it was my turn to shoot, it's not competitive or fun anymore. You really had some ridiculous builds like harlequins on jet bikes (you need an 8+ to hit me) or the blood angel army with max heavy Bolter tarantulas (the hb had a lot of power back in 2nd edition and for 40 points you could fit 12 of them in an army and they ignored their first 2 jams), or the IG army with sentinels (they had twin linked donkey cannons when these were really powerful). I liked the psychology rules in 2 nd edition (especially Abbadon because you either hated him or you were terrified of his gauntlet). There was a lot of randomness in 2nd edition like shooting at bikes (did you ever kill a biker only to have the bike go out of control and run you over?) and lighting people on fire with flamers. Some of the strategy cards like virus outbreak could kill an entire army before the game started or the infamous "Jones is acting strangely" in which he blew up and sprayed spores everywhere. Third edition was fun because it made troops necessary in the game. Fourth was fun because it stream lined hth. Fifth was fun because it put more importance on troops again. 6th is fun because you have some level of randomness which can be fun or infuriate you depending on whether you make the assault
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Tyranids have never received a .5 Codex. They've had one new one in each edition, never two in the same edition. Chaos got a .5 Codex, and it was the best Codex they've ever had (balance issues aside). Guard got a .5 Codex, and it was considerably better than the previous one (inherent issues with any sort of Doctrine system aside). Even Dark Eldar and Dark Angels got .5 Codices in 3rd Ed, and whilst it they were mostly the same and the differences were minor they were a mostly better than their previous incarnations.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
pretre wrote:It never had been. I love GW and even I accept that.
As mentioned, Epic and Necromunda had good core rules. Warmaster was decent too.
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Post by: timetowaste85
 Theophony wrote: Palindrome wrote: pretre wrote:
It never had been. I love GW and even I accept that.
It wasn't far off in the mid/late 90's. GW has never been very strong on balancing but at least it could turn out some decent rules once.
Problem is too many armies, too much variety. Mantic works fine now, but once they hit 8+ armies the interaction if the rules will begin to break. I played both 40k and fantasy back then, and remember armies being tabled all the time by "the new codex/army book" because they created the new beat stick.
You know Mantic as more than 8 armies, right? Elves, dwarves, twilight kin, abyssal dwarves, orcs, goblins, kingdoms of men, undead, ogres, nature, abyssals and basileans. That's 12. And balance is fine. Dreadball has 12 as well, and only one team had issues, which I hear they fixed. It's not amounts of armies, it's over complexity. Mantic keeps it simple, that's why their games work. GW used to work before it went overboard.
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Post by: Wayniac
I actually enjoyed how 2nd had less models.. the rules were wonky though with lots of special things going on (Wargear cards.. anyone remember Vortex Grenades?) but I liked when an army was like 30 guys for the non-horde armies.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Heh. I remember Chaos armies that had 20 or fewer models simply due to how expensive Chaos Champions (of all types) could get.
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Post by: Jaiste
H.B.M.C. wrote:Heh. I remember Chaos armies that had 20 or fewer models simply due to how expensive Chaos Champions (of all types) could get.
I feel like that's how it should be.... If a few squads of SM can pacify a planet, what sort of damage can some that have been fighting for the last 10,000 years do?
Sure plenty have become mere shells of their selves through debauchery and debasement, but at least give me some options for some badasses who have been hanging out, pillaging, and burning in the warp for the last 10 millennia...
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Also remember that Special IC's was in fact upgradebale.
Yup Abbay and Kharn din't come fresh from the box with drac'hnyen or Gorechild, they had some more basic weapons on them for their base price, and you paid extra points for thoses.
Can't remember the points cost but it was in 70-90pts or something, and Kharn's Blessing of the Blood God, did double his Wounds and rethrow his failed to hit and another effect that i can't remember.
But hey thats old people speech...
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 Slayer le boucher wrote:Also remember that Special IC's was in fact upgradebale. Yup Abbay and Kharn din't come fresh from the box with drac'hnyen or Gorechild, they had some more basic weapons on them for their base price, and you paid extra points for thoses. Can't remember the points cost but it was in 70-90pts or something, and Kharn's Blessing of the Blood God, did double his Wounds and rethrow his failed to hit and another effect that i can't remember.
Are you... sure about that? Abby in 2nd Ed was 150 base, but had to take 3 Wargear Cards (Drach'nyen, Chaos Terminator Armour & Talon of Horus), bringing him to 275. Kharn was similar - 157 base, but had to take Wargear Cards/Chaos Rewards that took him to 217. He didn't get any choices. He did get to re-roll armour saves and re-roll 1's in close combat. You're right in that some special characters did have options (such as a three Wargear Card limit but only came with two by default, so the third was up to you) and things like that, but for the most part they were pretty set in stone. I remember a game where myself and my opponent mistakenly thought that Khornate Terminators got Praise of Khorne, allowing them to re-roll that 3+ on 2D6 save they had. I killed them all in the end, but that was a tough unit to crack!
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Post by: tomjoad
I can attest that Eldrad got a bunch of options unique to him, but could choose a few of the generic war gear cards as well. If I hadn't just stashed my 2nd ed codexes in storage while I move houses I'd look it up to be precise.
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Post by: Chrysis
I have the 2nd edition Chaos and Eldar codexes on a shelf. I'll look into it when I get home if anyone still cares.
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Post by: tomjoad
There's no new rumors. This is literally all we care about.
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Post by: WarAngel
Motograter wrote:Now if only that came out too. My slaanesh army would like to be a real slaanesh army
Up to this point I've been setting aside the Slaaneshi heads (ones with the horn) from the CSM box and using the marine bodies to make Chosen. If an official Chosen box is made I could always use them as Aspiring Champions or just keep up with my plan.
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Post by: Chrysis
tomjoad wrote:There's no new rumors. This is literally all we care about.
Fair enough, at least as a derail it's a fairly harmless one.
H.B.M.C. has the right of it. Abby and Kharne are both "May have up to three wargear cards. These must be X, Y, and Z." So the "may" is more of a must.
Eldrad has the same up to 3 wording, but is only forced to take one particular piece of wargear (the staff) leaving the other two flexible.
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Post by: TimmyIsChaos
Why not just put the havocs and chosen in one box and give us a normal 10 man marine box?
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Post by: Red Viper
pretre wrote:There's a game where you can take any old fluffy army/list and it is still tournament calibre? Count me as skeptical.
Warmachine has tier lists which are basically theme lists for each Warcaster. They limit your options, but give you bonuses which can be worth it.
Some are crap, but some end up being very good while still in tier. Varies from caster to caster but most factions have a viable tier list or two.
I'm not sure if they fall under "any old fluffy army/list" because you still have to follow the tier restrictions, but it's the closest I can think of.
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Post by: Wayniac
TimmyIsChaos wrote:Why not just put the havocs and chosen in one box and give us a normal 10 man marine box?
Because then they couldn't charge double!
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Post by: Kosake
The havoc box is pretty much a money scam. 36€ for 5 models you don't even want to field in that combination (or does anyone go for HB+RL+ LC+ AC-kombi?). There is some inherent discrepancy between model pricing across the board.
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Post by: Wayniac
Kosake wrote:
The havoc box is pretty much a money scam. 36€ for 5 models you don't even want to field in that combination (or does anyone go for HB+RL+ LC+ AC-kombi?). There is some inherent discrepancy between model pricing across the board.
Most heavy weapons from GW are a scam though. Devastators are the same way, although at least you get 2x of some weapons (I don't think you do with the Havocs). They basically scammed it so you need to buy 4 boxes to get a combination you actually want (and how convenient they killed bitz sales off long ago, so you can't even get one box and them just order say three extra autocannons), and at the price they run that's ridiculous, and it's more ridiculous that they seem to think a valid answer for needing 4x of a weapon type is to just buy four boxes of an overpriced squad. The Dev/Havoc squads are better suited to be treated as bitz i.e. you buy one for each regular squad you field so you get the different weapons options, and even that's insane with the prices as it means you spend double (or approximately double) for each single squad you want to field.
Good old GW.
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Post by: pretre
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Tyranids have never received a .5 Codex. They've had one new one in each edition, never two in the same edition.
Yeah, that's totally different from the read you got off it. I thought you were talking about the 6.5 codexes (tau, eldar, tyranids).
Was this ever in doubt? I do love GW. Doesn't mean I can't criticize some of their moves, but overall, I still love them. I may have battered wife syndrome.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
May?
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Post by: pretre
GW's just having a rough month. They still love me. If I wasn't so bad, they wouldn't have to hurt me so much.
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Post by: ceorron
Yeah I can believe this. I want plastic havoks though, so I'd believe anyone who said that.
The models do look dated, stood next to the shiny new plastic Space Marines who would buy Chaos? Chaos need this really really badly, I hope it is true.
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Post by: catharsix
pretre wrote:
GW's just having a rough month. They still love me. If I wasn't so bad, they wouldn't have to hurt me so much.
Seriously, P. If you'd just stop nagging GW so much, it wouldn't get flustered and loose its cool
In all seriousness though, I REALLY hope we get to see some infantry models (Havoks, Chosen, whatever) done in the really awesome Dark Vengeance style. I was hoping for that back before the extremely disappointing hell-chicken release wave. Hopefully they can get it right this time (not holding my breath though, especially given then murkiness of these rumours).
-C6
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
 Red Viper wrote:Warmachine has tier lists which are basically theme lists for each Warcaster.
Yeah, well, that is not what I would call fluffy list. Let us take some precise example, my own Warmachine list. I use Gunnbjorn, with a list that is both Tier 4 and fluffy : - Gunnbjorn - Dire Troll Blitzer - Dire Troll Blitzer - Dire Troll Bomber - 5 whelps - 10 pygmy burrowers - 10 pygmy bushwackers - 5 trollkin sluggers - trollkin thumper crew - trollkin thumper crew This force is T4 because all my warbeast and units have ranged weapons, I have two thumper crew, and three heavy warbeasts. It is fluffy, because it is full of trolls with modern, powder weapons, the kind of progressive trolls that would like to join Gunnbjorn. Now, if I was to use instead some mountain king, swamp trolls, and fell callers, it would still be T4, but it would be way less fluffy. On the other hand, if I was to add a war wagon, which is a fluffy as it gets (my progressive gun-crazed warlock getting a brand new huge tracked cannon with an auxiliary smaller gun seems fluffy to me ), it would stupidly just break the tier list. I won't even be T1… pretre wrote: GW's just having a rough month. They still love me. If I wasn't so bad, they
would release plastic sisters ! (Fixed that for you )
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Post by: pretre
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:pretre wrote:GW's just having a rough month. They still love me. If I wasn't so bad, they
would release plastic sisters !
(Fixed that for you )
I should have just gotten GW's beer quicker. It was my fault really... :(
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Post by: WarAngel
pretre wrote: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:pretre wrote:GW's just having a rough month. They still love me. If I wasn't so bad, they
would release plastic sisters !
(Fixed that for you )
I should have just gotten GW's beer quicker. It was my fault really... :(
And made it a sammich.
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Post by: SRSFACE
For heavy weapons, the best "bits service" for that right now is oddly enough... Forgeworld?!
I know, crazy.
It's about $18 bucks (11 GBP) to get a 10-set of any legion special weapon (plasma, flamer, melta) or one of each of the legion Heavy weapons.
Considering they are chaos marines and therefore in older armor anyway, the legions power weapons set backpacks fit just fine on chaos dudes. Unfortunately it's still 1 of each rather than being packs of 4 of just one type at a time, but still just buying those and packages of chaos (or even loyalist) marines is a significantly better prospect at least to me than dealing with the craptastic Havoc finecast set.
The funny thing is Chaos Havocs spamming nothing but rocket launchers are a fairly necessary unit as they are probably the best Anti-Air unit in the entire codex.
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