So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?
Wow wow wow... can they do that? i have never heard anything like this..then again our store aint that big... but we have gaming days but not open days we got clubs for that gotta hear with our manager about it. Where's this store you talking about?
phatonic wrote: Wow wow wow... can they do that? i have never heard anything like this..then again our store aint that big... but we have gaming days but not open days we got clubs for that gotta hear with our manager about it. Where's this store you talking about?
I don't want to name the store specifically as I dont want to incurr the wrath of the manager who is actually a really nice guy but it is in a London borough here in England.
It is called store manager is afraid for his job and is doing everything he can to get sales. Get the regional rep and "ask" if this is the new policy for the store and see how fast this is fixed.
Talizvar wrote: It is called store manager is afraid for his job and is doing everything he can to get sales. Get the regional rep and "ask" if this is the new policy for the store and see how fast this is fixed.
Talizvar wrote: It is called store manager is afraid for his job and is doing everything he can to get sales. Get the regional rep and "ask" if this is the new policy for the store and see how fast this is fixed.
Well he's doing it wrong. Putting a tax on tables will lose sales, not gather them.
Talizvar wrote: It is called store manager is afraid for his job and is doing everything he can to get sales. Get the regional rep and "ask" if this is the new policy for the store and see how fast this is fixed.
Well he's doing it wrong. Putting a tax on tables will lose sales, not gather them.
I think you are both right. That is the reason he is doing it but he is obviously neglecting the fact that people make purchases while playing/modelling in store and if he pushes them away they will just order stuff online instead. It will probably raise awareness that GW models are available at a discount from many places online and then he will never get those customers back.
When our new manageer arrived from England he had some odd ways of keeping costumers at the store as in not letting people use the Paint station unless they buy something, not allowed to use any paint and said no to pickup games. After a while i belive he understood how he had it at our local as the guys who usually hanged around started to dwimmle down and at one event he made only 1 guy showed up to play. ( i was there to buy the new white dwarf) Well making the story shorter he changed the ways back after getting tons of feedback (still not fully back ) but once more there's atleast people there.
It seems to me some manageers have a irk to....Make the store ¨Theirs¨ i'm the boss here kind and i'm allways right but hey! the redshirts can't do anything about it.. (now blueshirts) Heck he even sold one of the old store Armies they had on display when they were gonna replace it..totall worth 7,5k nok at that time... wich is about 750£ i got it for 250£ So the badies can turn into goodies you just gotta give em good time and.. ¨feedback¨ and don't be the one with the annoying tone to your voice when you give that said feedback
My FLGS here in the states has a slightly similar policy.
If you buy stuff from him you can play on the tables for free. He also runs tournaments and special events but doesn't charge an entry fee.
If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.
pay his markup? man, if that doesn't sound like a combination of highway robbery and bribery, I don't know what does.
I can understand having a (small) flat fee to use the space, but having to pay a percentage of the value of whatever models you bring to the table? screw that... not only would I be playing elsewhere, I'd be telling everyone else I know to as well.
Paying the markup is a one time deal for stuff you don't buy from him. He's a stickler about buying his products. If you buy it cheaper on ebay how is that keeping his doors open?
On the other hand, he does the same if you buy stuff from a local gamer. THAT I don't agree with. He's made money on it once, now he's gonna make money on it again? No thanks.
he shouldn't have any expectations of making money off of a sale he wasn't involved in. that's just shy of extortion, really. a flat fee to use the space I'm totally fine with. but trying to collect money for transactions that happened outside his store is super sketchy. to each their own, I guess.
It is fair enough as you are using their store space and there will be wear and damage to their property. However it may not be the best business practice to tax people for just hanging around.
I think the best way I have seen a store make some extra buck was to rent out the front area of their store to a coffee/snack bar which their got a cut of the business from. I got people in the doors to try to convince to buy his goods (he used to keep a bunch of board games up front) and kept his gamer customers both happy and spending money that he got a cut of.
It's a shame that they felt that this was the only they could get money out of the people who used their shop.
To have all these people playing with models worth hundreds of dollars which the store sees none of because of poor decisions that have most likely been made by the suits back at GeeDubs HQ must be awful.
One of the stores I go to used to have table fees. The crowd there stopped going and formed an independent gaming group. Store later switched management, dumped the policy and the people came back. Granted it's also was and still is an independent FLGS so their main revenue comes from MTG anyway.
pejota wrote: My FLGS here in the states has a slightly similar policy.
If you buy stuff from him you can play on the tables for free. He also runs tournaments and special events but doesn't charge an entry fee.
If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.
Thats BS, the sisters player should have said "I wanted to buy them here but you dont have them in stock on the shelves so there wasnt anything I could do"
Our FLGS has a free to play policy. And the owner is a super nice guy, so when he says "Hey cool to have you guys down here today! You guys should get some chips or soda while you play," it usually gets us more amicable guys to say "Sure!" I probably buy a Dr. Pepper out of their soda fridge every time I go down.
It's amazing how honesty helps so much with these kinds of stores. I bet this GW guy who implemented the pay to use the tables policy didn't realize he could still make 2 quid off anyone who goes in the store by selling them a Coke and Butterfinger while they were playing. Not only would the players not get upset at "highway robbery," they'd probably be glad to have snacks available in-store even at a markup rather than having to hit up a convenience store before coming.
I never pay to play unless its a tournament but that is just me.
A better move is to have drinks and snacks for sale. Its a sneaky way to get some extra money off of people without looking like a jerk. Just about everyone will have some loose change in their pockets and its far easier to seperate them from that for a soda than it is to charge them to play.
Profit margin on snacks is also pretty huge. You can get upwards of 80% pure profit on them.
pejota wrote: Paying the markup is a one time deal for stuff you don't buy from him. He's a stickler about buying his products. If you buy it cheaper on ebay how is that keeping his doors open?
The same way it does if people are using armies that they bought 10 years ago, from a different store.
It's a crazy idea. Just put a rental fee on the tables, if he's concerned about people playing int he store but not spending money. Add a 'members club' that grants free table use for a one-time fee. Sell snacks. Run paid events... And get over the fact that people will sometimes buy stuff elsewhere.
\On the other hand, he does the same if you buy stuff from a local gamer. THAT I don't agree with. He's made money on it once, now he's gonna make money on it again? No thanks.
What's the difference? Either way he's expecting to make money off a sale that he didn't make.
pejota wrote: My FLGS here in the states has a slightly similar policy.
If you buy stuff from him you can play on the tables for free. He also runs tournaments and special events but doesn't charge an entry fee.
If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.
That's crazy. I would never game there at all OR buy anything from him.
pejota wrote: Paying the markup is a one time deal for stuff you don't buy from him. He's a stickler about buying his products. If you buy it cheaper on ebay how is that keeping his doors open?
WOW If someone told me to pay a markup because I didn't buy from them before I was allowed to play I would laugh my ass off as I pack my things back up and leave.
I'm guessing his justification is that part about ebay sales not keeping his door open, to which I would say tough luck, keeping him in business is not my responsibility. If he want's to stay in business maybe he should focus on getting customers in his store, which would make them more likely to buy from him. One way he could do that is by offering free open gaming.
If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.
That is really, really shady. If he pockets the money himself without GW's knowledge then it's borderline illegal. He shouldn't be able to demand fees for use of property he does not own and keep the fees without express permission from corporate. In addition, charging arbitrary mark-up fees for transactions he has no part in is shifty enough that I doubt GW major had anything to do with it.
1. My FLGS is an independent store carrying MANY other games than GW product.
2. The tables are free to use. The owner never charges fees for tournaments, campaigns or special events even though he offers store credit to the winner.
3. The owner wants people to buy his products he carries in the store. If it's not in stock, he can order just about anything on the market, even products from other companies.
4. If a customer doesn't buy from him he'll ask you to pay to use the table OR you can pay a ONE TIME markup fee so that he's cool with it. The example given was the guy who bought a lot of Sisters stuff on ebay. The guy STILL PAID LESS than full retail after ebay and the markup fee. The owner was 100% cool with that.
5. I own a TON of stuff from the 10+ years I've been playing. I've never once had to pay to play or pay a markup. The owner isn't crazy and understands people have collections. I also buy from him religiously so he knows I'm good for some profit especially when new stuff gets released for the armies I collect.
6. The one practice I don't agree with is having to "settle up" if I buy stuff from a local player who already bought those items from the FLGS. The argument is that I could have bought the items brand new from him so he makes a profit.
7. The argument, "buy your own table and invite your friends over" doesn't work for me. My dogs will eat people. I'm also reluctant to go to the homes of the various local gamers for several reasons. The store owner is also great at running events, keeping track of campaigns and buying the terrain we all use, for free I might add. Matter of fact, we just finished up a Treachery and Triumph campaign using the store's copy of the kit. None of us had to buy it and he didn't charge a fee. Keeping his doors opens gives the rest of us a place to meet and play without worrying about space, time, dogs, families, etc.
8. A lot of people here don't like that idea and are picking and choosing their arguments with various quotes from my posts. I LIKE PLAYING THERE. It's great to get out of my house, hang with other players, play pick-up games for free on painted tables and terrain and then leave when I'm done. Keeping the guy in business is a small price for me to pay so I don't have to worry about other things.
I would totally pay like $10/month to play at a store if they had quality tables with lots of terrain, *and* a portion of that money went towards the game. IE more terrain, events or whatnot. The store could even do stuff like offer free months for $x spent, or discounts for "joining" the club, or something.
I would not play at a place that made me pay markup for things bought elsewhere. I even buy my stuff from local stores, even though it's more expensive, because I don't want them closing down. I would definitely not play at a store that made me pay markup for buying stuff off fellow members of the community. I also don't like the idea of buying "time". I don't want to rush games to avoid paying more.
First off Pjota I do believe you found gamer heaven sir lol
Any who back to the original topic. Sounds to me like theirs something fishy going on at that store. I would get in touch with GW as to where store managers do have a lot of freedom to run the store there are rules and limitations. Last off I've been noticing this from what I read and hear about GW stores in Europe, and that is the level of service is crap. I'm sorry but I don't go to places where I feel taken advantage of and not appreciated as a customer. As my boss always says "You catch more Bees with Honey then ." (the S word)
One question...
Does the 'tables' money go through the till?
If it does, is he using it to siphon off stock, as the till balances at month-end? Or, is it all going to GW for 'brownie points'?
If not, GW might want a tip-off, as it'll likely be lining the manager's pockets.
My area is pretty lucky. We have a game store with a small demostration table divided into quarters with warmahordes, flames of war, 40k, and fantasy starter sets on display for demonstration games. There are three shelves with the latest releases and board games while the rest of the product is set up along the walls. 75% of the floor space is dedicated to free gaming tables that are pretty well set up with abundant terrain pieces the manager set up himself. I have never had any difficulty finding space for a game. They even have a area around the register where people pull up bar stools and paint.
It does pretty well, with a lot of loyal customers. I guess they realized that having happy hobbyists actually in the store showing how fun the entire can be would actually drive up sales.
I can't honestly believe some people would pay a mark up for something they collected from a different seller. That actually sickens me that someone would penalize someone for just trying to find a better deal or being a veteran collector. That's not how free enterprise works. It is in all regard a scam. He is profiting from another seller without having to go through the hassle of having and stocking the product. If I actually saw my FLGS tell someone that, I would have immediately packed my things and left because that is not a place that deserves my business.
phatonic wrote: Wow wow wow... can they do that? i have never heard anything like this..then again our store aint that big... but we have gaming days but not open days we got clubs for that gotta hear with our manager about it. Where's this store you talking about?
I don't want to name the store specifically as I dont want to incurr the wrath of the manager who is actually a really nice guy but it is in a London borough here in England.
..hmmm... we play in a couple of London boroughs as well as Dark Sphere (who charge table rent of £3, which is a bargain).
Sadly, the gaming at our main GW store, which has a really nice manager, has more or less collapsed, from being pretty good. He also has some nerdy staff who complain once you've been on a table for an hour. We do buy from him, altho I'm certain he realises we only buy direct only sutff now (but hey, we've spent a fortune there in the past).
Really, I wouldn't mind paying if they had a decent league or campaign. But at a time when GW is under financial pressure, you'd think they'd develop a clear policy about playing at their stores.
pejota wrote: My FLGS here in the states has a slightly similar policy.
If you buy stuff from him you can play on the tables for free. He also runs tournaments and special events but doesn't charge an entry fee.
If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.
HAHAHA that store owner is a thief That has to be like the biggest joke ever......hate to sound mean but if he told me I had to pay HIM for models I didn't buy off him I would tell him to recude his discount or else I am leaving. I never play at my FLGS I buy there 50% of the time and then 50% online.
He doesn't charge to play in the store and always runs demos of other games and the only thing he charges for is tournaments which the entrance fee is only $5 because there are prices at the end. He only has a 10% discount on GW stuff though but whatever.
Psy-Titan wrote: So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?
Is your store constantly packed? Do you have people who do nothing but sit there and never buy anything from the shop or constantly bemoan the prices from GW or try to steer customers to other retailers for even small things?
If so, then it's a kind of reasonable policy. It sucks that you're being punished for it...but I think the point isn't to have people being able to come in with their armies already bought from the shop and be able to call dibs on hobby tables/gaming tables without actually buying anything that day. Managers have to get creative sometimes when dealing with problems they're seeing in their shops.
I don't know how your GW is, but mine has paints for the hobby tables/painting demos and store copies of the army books that people can use.
We had a few people early on with the current manager who tried to abuse the way he set things up with the store copies of the army books whenever a new book came out.
So he made a rule that solved it. If you wanted to look through the store copy for more than five minutes, you could only do so in the corner where the books were located.
And then he moved where the books were located from near the hobby tables to the other side of the shop.
The people who were sometimes taking the only store copy of the book and sitting down for an hour reading the thing cover to cover, writing out an army list, etc stopped and either started buying the book that interested them or would read for a small amount and decide they didn't like the book.
Psy-Titan wrote: So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?
This did not happen.
We've had this exact thread before and it did not happen.
Blackhair Duckshape wrote: It's a shame that they felt that this was the only they could get money out of the people who used their shop.
To have all these people playing with models worth hundreds of dollars which the store sees none of because of poor decisions that have most likely been made by the suits back at GeeDubs HQ must be awful.
Agree
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SRSFACE wrote: Our FLGS has a free to play policy. And the owner is a super nice guy, so when he says "Hey cool to have you guys down here today! You guys should get some chips or soda while you play," it usually gets us more amicable guys to say "Sure!" I probably buy a Dr. Pepper out of their soda fridge every time I go down.
It's amazing how honesty helps so much with these kinds of stores. I bet this GW guy who implemented the pay to use the tables policy didn't realize he could still make 2 quid off anyone who goes in the store by selling them a Coke and Butterfinger while they were playing. Not only would the players not get upset at "highway robbery," they'd probably be glad to have snacks available in-store even at a markup rather than having to hit up a convenience store before coming.
Here in the UK there seems to be a rule against food and drink in every GW store for some reason.
Psy-Titan wrote: So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?
This did not happen.
We've had this exact thread before and it did not happen.
Not quite sure what you mean but it is happening I can assure you. Straight from the managers mouth it begins this week.
My FLGS is really laid back. Me and a friend came in at 10 in the morning on a Tuesday and broke out our stuff once and nobody even said anything, but we got a few "regulars" in watching the battle at various points.
Of course my FLGS also is a model train/airplane store that has a secion for board and wargames, so I guess they stay in business whether we play for free or not.
Charging for table use is plain stupidity. They need to man up and hire some business men to save them from running their dying company into the ground.
*rant*
yukondal wrote: Charging for table use is plain stupidity. They need to man up and hire some business men to save them from running their dying company into the ground.
*rant*
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Because "charging for table use" is completely unreasonable and can never be justified and is the sign of running a company into the ground.
Psy-Titan wrote: Here in the UK there seems to be a rule against food and drink in every GW store for some reason.
It's pretty standard for most stores in the UK, game or otherwise.
Not that anyone pays any attention to that, and sticky mitts get smeared all over stuff on the shelves.
As for why GW stores, you're using their tables and scenery, and spills cost them money.
ahzek wrote: It's about rewarding customers.
Rather than giving free reign to anyone buying elsewhere
Obviously there can be the occasional person who has bought the army ahead of time, I'd hope for a bit of common sense from the manager
I would agree with this IF people were buying non GW models. Last time I checked to play in a GW store you need GW models or FW models. So if you really think about it in the scheme of things anyone who's buying GW models is a GW customer. Be it from a GW store or not. Now the way I see it GW stores are the public face of the company. If the manager of the store is pulling power moves and being a nazi about his play space then if I didn't know better I would assume that's the attitude of the whole company.
I've personally had nothing but positive experiences with GW. They always seem to want to put the customer first, and every store I've gone to has been all about people playing in the store even if they didn't buy anything that day because it's FREE advertisement to any new customers walking in.
It really comes down to "What the market will bear."
If the area is short on war gaming table space (mainly apartment complexes, no other hobby stores in area) you could get away with a members fee or the more obvious and irritating table rental / product buy.
A small business needs to feed the owner and pay any other wages. At a bar you pay for drinks and put money into the pool table (in some) so some thought along those lines are understandable.
On "Magic Night" I would get snacks, food and drink and hire a pretty waitress (yes, could be viewed as sexist but I used to waiter and the pretty waitresses brought the men in by the horde) for the night to bring everything to the players and I would expect a full house. Then when word gets around, start up the 40k group with the same setup.
I have been to clubs/stores that rented out locker space for player's stuff which was awesome. It is all about supplying a service people think little about paying for.
Fairly recently my local gw , shut down its 4 tables in favour of 1 table just used for beginners, I asked the manager why and he said it did nothing for the shop to keep them there.
Iv ended up spending a lot less in the store, I don't spend as much time there really now so it just makes sense to order from a discount. Maybe it worked and there making more money, though I think a lot of people feel shunted with the attitude of "your welcome to come in, buy something, chat for 5 mins then its time for you to move along"
Psy-Titan wrote: So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?
Well I would be fine with paying for table use in principle. And I'm fine with the idea of getting table time gratis with purchases so that those who buy get to use it without additional cost and those who don't buy, pay a small fee in lieu. In principle I think it's good because it makes table space more of a priority and also discourages wasting table time by those who just want to linger around not properly gaming.
But in this instance? £10 minimum spend is rather high, two hours is a niggardly amount to get in return and if that's just a table to paint on its ridiculous. If its to be an incentive to spend money there it needs to be a really good table with really good terrain. The sort of thing most people couldn't have for themselves.
Growing up, my local FLGS made gamers sign in. And on Friday and Saturdays it cost $1 to hang out there even if you weren't gaming. Why? Probably to keep track of who was there if anything got trashed, and then to charge a little to offset the cost of maintenance and clean up costs. There was a "club" too where regulars could pay an annual fee that was considerably cheaper.
Personnaly, I always wondered why stores let people play for free. I've always been even more astounded that they would provide you paint for free. From the client's perspective, its great, but it doesn't seem like a rational business decision. I mean, I guess it attracts people in, but would it really kill off traffic if they charged a small fee to use the tables? Or to "borrow" the paint sets? Nobody is particularly suprised at having to rent pool table in a pool hall, so why would it be unthinkable to have to rent out your 40k table/paint?
ahzek wrote: It's about rewarding customers.
Rather than giving free reign to anyone buying elsewhere
Obviously there can be the occasional person who has bought the army ahead of time, I'd hope for a bit of common sense from the manager
I would agree with this IF people were buying non GW models. Last time I checked to play in a GW store you need GW models or FW models. So if you really think about it in the scheme of things anyone who's buying GW models is a GW customer. Be it from a GW store or not. Now the way I see it GW stores are the public face of the company. If the manager of the store is pulling power moves and being a nazi about his play space then if I didn't know better I would assume that's the attitude of the whole company.
I've personally had nothing but positive experiences with GW. They always seem to want to put the customer first, and every store I've gone to has been all about people playing in the store even if they didn't buy anything that day because it's FREE advertisement to any new customers walking in.
Yep this post sums up my feelings pretty well. From reading all these replies it seems very much like GW's attitude to its customers in the states are far better than here in the UK.
pejota wrote: If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.
Pay his markup? That is a total dick move right there. What if I bring in an army that I bought long before his store was even opened? I love the brilliant things store owners come up with to keep their stores open, that ultimately will instead make people not want to come to their store anymore. I buy something every time I am in my FLGS to support his business. That doesn't mean I am beholden to covering his bottom line from that point on just because I am a customer there. I am allowed to spend my money wherever I choose and if a store owner tried to pull that markup crap on my I'd immediately find some place else to spend the money I was giving to them. It is that simple.
I've got no problems with stores charging fees for their table usage, even if it is you have to buy something in the store if you are there using the tables. I get that and I am fine with that concept. Heck the owner of my FLGS stated that he makes drastically more money selling sodas, snacks and candies to those playing the store than he ever makes selling the minis they are using in their games...
Paying his markup is downright stupid IMO. But if the charge to use the table isn't much, I'd probably just do that and instead never buy anything in the store, lol.
The "markup" thing is just silly though. If I'm collecting an army that is vastly more expensive than other armies to collect, damned right I'm going to try and get it cheaper online. What about if it's something like DKoK?
I'm happy to support my FLGS buying random stuff while I'm playing games or even by paying for a table, but having a "you must buy" quota is stupid and will only serve to push people away from the store.
I still think smart stores do the snacks and drinks thing. Maybe it doesn't make as much money as I think it does, but I'll often spend an order of magnitude more on food in a store in an evening than I would be willing to pay for the tables in that same evening. I often stop by one particular store with is on my way home from work and buy a drink or a snack without even using the tables simply because it's conveniently located and I can have a chat or buy a paint I need or whatever on my way home.
The main good ideas I think for making sure you're making money off tables (if you feel the advertising isn't enough) is... 1. Charge a flat fee for table use. 2. Sell food/drink. 3. Charge a membership. 4. Charge a fee which comes with a voucher that lets you buy things from the store. So if it costs $5 to use the table, you get a $5 voucher that you can spend in store.
It is the norm here. We pay for 1 hour. Our shops are very small so even when we have to pay around 3-4$ , there is still more people wanting to play then tables.
1. Set up your own tables at home.
2. Charge half the price local GW does for using them.
3. Profit.
Magicly build a house where a 4x6 or 4x4 table fits in without killing parents, children or taking over the home of your grand parents and dedicting it only to gaming AND not making more money out it with renting it .
One thing I've always wondered about this, I see people talking about store owners being annoyed if you bring in models you didnt buy that their store, and with this markup thing as well... how exactly does the store owner know if you bought from there or not? Do they really remember every single customer ever? And there's not really any proof anyway.
And as its been said before, unless you are shouting to other people in the store about how cheap you bought your models elsewhere, it shouldn't really cause any problems, after that then its just down to the store to sort out how they get customers in their favour.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: This is why you always build a house with space for a pool table
Definately, everyone in Auz is building houses haha. Ill be living there soon and the plan is definitely to build a games room.
I do think its important for people to try make clubs and so on though. If you have enough people just start getting everyone to contribute towards getting scenery, (most halls and so on have tables already). Work out how much it will be to hire the hall weekly and split the cost. If its pretty low then as your club grows the extra money brought in by new comers can go towards new scenery and so on. Most of the clubs in my Area are set up like that and we have a huge gaming session once a week, and every month we have a huge sunday event (like swap meets, tournaments, games display day and so on) and people come from all over the place to see whats happening.
Its great and we get the local hobby stores to contribute and we have club cards with them and so on (as a result many people buy from them).
Its hard work to begin with but as long as you got a bunch of guys willing to help share the responsibility and are organised then its well worth the effort. Plus the money you pay goes towards cool events, prizes and terrain that people want.
If you need 20 people to pay $4 each then 35 people come, that extra 15 people worth of money goes towards more club benefits that everyone can use, rather than go to someones pocket. Also most halls are bigger than what you need so tables arent an issue (depends on the place you are playing in).
I have belonged to 2 clubs and both where set up like this. One at college and one in my current town and its great as i dont ever run into paying money for tables i get no return from later down the track. Even easier when its run by a committee.
For those Americans out there yes this sounds very communist but it works out great. Because its not profit driven you can also kick out those players that ruin it for everybody and so on Especially when everybody becomes a community and more different games start getting played. If done right it becomes a gaming utopia.
So I've been seeing a lot of support for paying to play. I can understand this at FLGS which are small businesses but were talking about a GW retail store.
I will say I did like the idea of the club pass!!
As far as the store owner who is marking thing up. Stop going to their store.. that's not only bad business, but that's treating your customers (aka your source of income) like crap!
When I'm looking for a FLGS I like them to have the following criteria and in my experience FLGS that offer the following stay in business.
1. Great Customer service- This is number 1 for me for two reasons. First I'm a Assistant Customer Service manager my self I know how important happy customers are. Second I'm giving you my money that I worked hard for. I don't want to be treated like tagged cattle or a walking pay check.
2. Open play space with limited rules- Now of course you have your typical no swearing, no stealing, no fighting, ect.. rules. However I've been to stores that are strict on what you can play in their stores. "If we don't sell it you can't play it." That mentality has killed many of game stores in my area. I play more then GW and PP games I'm a historical gamer and finding play space for historical games isn't easy because you tend to need A LOT of space. Now most game stores are happy to provide you a place to play because it could introduce a new game there for demand for a new product which means more money. However game stores that have the we don't sell it limitation are missing out and they tend to falter as a result.
3. My last criteria NO GAME TAKE PRESENCE OVER ANY OTHER GAME JUST BECAUSE IT SELLS MORE!! I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to leave during OPEN PLAY or MTG night because I wasn't playing Magic even tho Magic players don't use the miniatures tables because you have to stand at them. The game store that will remain unnamed has undergone some changes and this is no longer an issue. Any who back to my point it doesn't matter what game I'm playing. I almost ALWAYS buy my product from the stores I play at there for I can support them and have a place to play in return. I should have just as much accuses to play space as any other game.
I do think its important for people to try make clubs and so on though. If you have enough people just start getting everyone to contribute towards getting scenery, (most halls and so on have tables already). Work out how much it will be to hire the hall weekly and split the cost. If its pretty low then as your club grows the extra money brought in by new comers can go towards new scenery and so on. Most of the clubs in my Area are set up like that and we have a huge gaming session once a week, and every month we have a huge sunday event (like swap meets, tournaments, games display day and so on) and people come from all over the place to see whats happening.
Its great and we get the local hobby stores to contribute and we have club cards with them and so on (as a result many people buy from them).
Its hard work to begin with but as long as you got a bunch of guys willing to help share the responsibility and are organised then its well worth the effort. Plus the money you pay goes towards cool events, prizes and terrain that people want.
If you need 20 people to pay $4 each then 35 people come, that extra 15 people worth of money goes towards more club benefits that everyone can use, rather than go to someones pocket. Also most halls are bigger than what you need so tables arent an issue (depends on the place you are playing in).
I have belonged to 2 clubs and both where set up like this. One at college and one in my current town and its great as i dont ever run into paying money for tables i get no return from later down the track. Even easier when its run by a committee.
For those Americans out there yes this sounds very communist but it works out great. Because its not profit driven you can also kick out those players that ruin it for everybody and so on Especially when everybody becomes a community and more different games start getting played. If done right it becomes a gaming utopia.
I'm a Yankee and I support this idea. It's actually more socalist then communist because it's rules based on mutual agreement. Don't forget our most popular sport is a small scale socialism lol.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: This is why you always build a house with space for a pool table
I don't know how it is where you live , but here only the very very very rich people actualy own a house .
Because its not profit driven you can also kick out those players that ruin it for everybody and so on
so you could have 4-5 groups join and then have 2 biggest groups kick everyone out , but keep the money or you could even have one group that is friends with the club owners and make him kick out people that paid , but you don't like . I see a problem with that .
My FLGS makes you pay £7.50 to have a 6x4 table for a few hours and I think that's fair to them. They could be using the space for pay to play board games, and they have to go through the effort of setting up the tables and stuff as well. Aside from this it's also modelling space that we're using to game on. My FLGS is very cool though, the guy there gives us a discount because me and my friends rock up so often, down to about £4.50 for 3 or 4 hours.
You can even rent the entire place out, for the day for £30.00! xD That was my birthday sorted :3
I think it's fair for GW to charge you to use /their/ tables for gaming on. They're not a public service, they don't have to let you use their tables. If someone came into a gym and asked to use the machines for free they'd be rejected, you have to pay to use the machines because they've gone and bought them. And it's the same with gaming tables.
A guy I once saw said 'One thing I've always noticed. Gamers aren't buyers. You have this group of guys that go into the store to, I dunno, talk, and play games, but you /never/ see them buy anything! And it's losing people money'. This is my point.
I think it's fair for GW to charge you to use /their/ tables for gaming on. They're not a public service, they don't have to let you use their tables. If someone came into a gym and asked to use the machines for free they'd be rejected, you have to pay to use the machines because they've gone and bought them. And it's the same with gaming tables.
A guy I once saw said 'One thing I've always noticed. Gamers aren't buyers. You have this group of guys that go into the store to, I dunno, talk, and play games, but you /never/ see them buy anything! And it's losing people money'. This is my point.
Heres the problem with that statement Gyms product is their equipment.
I also DON'T HAVE to buy GW products to play their games or just in general but I do. All I'm asking if a place to meet other players and play the game they sell. This isn't a "public service" it's just common since business. Its' a "Buy our stuff and we will take care of you" mentality. The place where I work we bag orders, carry items out to cars for customers who request it, special order items we don't have, offer comps on items to further future sales. I could go on, and we do all of this to provide a free service to our customers (AKA OUR SOURCE OF INCOME) in hopes that the positive experience bring them back into our store. Trust me we are blowing away our competition except Wal-Mart.
So lets enter the mind set of a person who plays GW games and only has a GW store to play at. So I'm coming into your store paying lots of money for your products with the impression I can come back here to enjoy your product. I come in one day to do so having been a loyal customer and I find out I must now shell out more money to play in your store. So you roped me in with the impression that I can return here and take advantage of your product free of charge, but now your telling me I have to give you more money to play it!?
Humm whats that PP games only require a kitchen table and they can be played for about half the cost? I think I'm going to start playing warmachine...
think about it... It would be like a restaurant charging you extra because you wanted to dine in.
I am wondering to the GW store that charges for the "mark up" fee, if he pays taxes on it.
If not, that would mean GW is now making a profit and not paying taxes on it. This will GW a bad name. I thing Customer Service will really want to know about this store.
Other wise their Lawyers will be doing something else than C&D letters and fighting ChapterHouse in court.
BrotherOfBone wrote: I think it's fair for GW to charge you to use /their/ tables for gaming on. They're not a public service, they don't have to let you use their tables. If someone came into a gym and asked to use the machines for free they'd be rejected, you have to pay to use the machines because they've gone and bought them. And it's the same with gaming tables.
It's not the same as a gym, a gym's only purpose is to get you to pay to use their machines, GW sells models, which can be used on a table.
A guy I once saw said 'One thing I've always noticed. Gamers aren't buyers. You have this group of guys that go into the store to, I dunno, talk, and play games, but you /never/ see them buy anything! And it's losing people money'. This is my point.
I think this is mostly a destructive mindset. I don't really mind people charging for tables, but this "it's losing people money" idea is codswallop if you ask me. Anyone and everyone is a potential customer and having people in your store is a good thing not a bad thing. Other stores go to great lengths just to get you in the door, knowing you might not be there to buy anything but just by being there you MIGHT buy something and you also encourage other people to wander in who themselves might buy something. If they're being obnoxious that's another matter, but for the most part having people in the store is not a bad thing.
BUT, even talking about all of that, I don't mind people charging for tables, however the supposed policy of the OP is...
"So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store"
That's a stupid policy if you ask me. One, they ARE an actual GW store rather than an FLGS. They should be trying their best to get and maintain customers, not shoo them away. 2nd, the "you must buy X amount every Y amount of time" is just silly and can't be enforced in any positive way. What if I just bought $1000 of GW product last week? I'm sure as hell not going to be buying another $20 every 2 hours just to stay in the store. Also, again, this is a GW not an FLGS. GW corporate would be (or should be) just as happy to have someone buy $1000 online as $1000 in store, maybe the manager wouldn't be as happy, but if GW had any sense, they'd realise that a sale is a sale and primarily use the stores to encourage gamers and gaming so they get more sales, regardless of the outlet. GW should be encouraging their managers to get as many people in stores.
Hey....I was pretty much called a dirty liar when I started a similar thread several months ago!!!!!!
I used to work part time running GW games at a FLGS. I can remember the Mechwarrior people coming in for tournaments, carrying boxes they bought off the internet and building their armies there. Basically not buying the product from the store who was running tournaments for them. The store owner eventually got rid of gaming because of the headaches.
Gamers are cheap and usually don't show any loyalty to the stores. This saddens me.
This thread reminds of a moment back at this GW a friend and I ran into on a road trip. We stop in thinking we could play a game, but then the manager says that we first have to buy something before we can play, so we buy a paint each and keep going about our business. Then he says that you have to have the relevant codices and rulebooks, we told him we know our books by heart and have them in the car, he tells us we can't play unless we go get them. So we go grab the books from the car and try to continue with the game, then the redshirt says that we have to buy something before we play. We ask why since we already bought paints, he says they have to be $30 or more. At this point we were real irritated since there was plenty of other annoying things that came up like the usual humping to get us to buy 3 BRBs we already have etc. So my buddy decides to pull out his ipad and purchases an entire daemons army of around $800 right in front of the redshirt and even shows him that he was doing it. Later we walked out the door after having a good laugh and went to the building that was directly upstairs where there was a gaming club filled to the brim with players while unsuprisingly the GW right below was nearly empty.
Psy-Titan wrote: So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?
From that shop ?
I have often wondered why gaming stores are not like snooker/pool halls. Tables with terrain on where you put your money in the slot and the lights come on. Hell they could even record games to dvd for a small fee. Vending machines for snacks etc, and small tables for people to chat or play cards.
That is actually not a terrible idea... maybe make it $5 an hour or something, and the terrain is attached to the table in some manner so it can be moved, but doesn't get walked off with.
Psienesis wrote: That is actually not a terrible idea... maybe make it $5 an hour or something, and the terrain is attached to the table in some manner so it can be moved, but doesn't get walked off with.
Yup might make the difference between a FLGS closing or staying open. It could even get to be a night out for the family.
I'm still a fan of the "pay for credit" approach. IF you are going to charge for tables because you feel that you are losing money to people not buying in your store, then at least take the money they pay for the table time, and set it up as credit that they can then use at your store. You make money and all the player really loses out on is the 20-30% he'd save from buying online. In return, he supports the place where he plays.
To me, charging for table space MIGHT be a good idea in some situations, like with a gaming club or something.
But the biggest problem I have with this is that by charging for table space in this manner, GW is basically double dipping. Most people play primarily at gaming stores, so without gaming store tables, the hobby might not even exist. A lot of folks might not be able to find somebody to play at their house or wherever.
By charging for table space, GW is basically saying "I'm charging you to use our product that you already paid (a high price) for", which is ludicrous. Even industries where this is the norm like cell phones and automobiles offer something extra. GW is charging you just to use a product you already bought, we NO special features. It's bad, and if GW did that to me I would not only not play there, but also buy my miniatures at an FLGS that doesn't charge for table space. Luckily we don't have a GW in my town and both my FLGSs with wargaming tables have free tables, although they do have plenty of tournaments and special events that you have to pay to enter, which is just fine.
Gamers are cheap and usually don't show any loyalty to the stores. This saddens me.
Pay where you play. Even if you don't need to buy anything, buy at least a pot of paint or a paintbrush or something. Should always support your FLGS.
I have enough wargaming crap in my house without buying stuff I don't even need
And honestly, that's just silly anyway. I'd rather just give the guy $3 to use the table than buy a $6 paint that I don't need and he only makes $2 off anyway.
My GW has people in there constantly. It's a really friendly environment that encourages you to go in and do some painting or play a game on their tables. In my experience this leads to people (myself included) buying stuff from the store even if they could have got it cheaper somewhere else or didn't actually need to buy it at all.
Maybe its because I'm in Australia where space is not exactly a premium (except for GW stores) but I still can't understand how a few bucks to use a table can possibly make you more in the long run than the goodwill free tables will.
People here aren't frothing at the mouth to play in stores and I've never (again except the at the new GW stores) had to wait for a table to become available.
Giving me a free table gets me in your store, which allows me to buy things from you. Charging me to pay for the tables will either A) send me out of your store to another where I can play for free or B) tells me that as long as I pay your fee means I am adequately supporting your store and am under no obligation to buy actual models from you.
PrinceRaven wrote: My GW has people in there constantly. It's a really friendly environment that encourages you to go in and do some painting or play a game on their tables. In my experience this leads to people (myself included) buying stuff from the store even if they could have got it cheaper somewhere else or didn't actually need to buy it at all.
This is exactly what my the GW store does in my area. That is why I go out of my way to buy stuff there even though I could get it cheaper elsewhere. Create a place where people want to play and they will support it.
Glaiceana wrote: One thing I've always wondered about this, I see people talking about store owners being annoyed if you bring in models you didnt buy that their store, and with this markup thing as well... how exactly does the store owner know if you bought from there or not? Do they really remember every single customer ever?
Every customer? Only if you have an exceptional memory. But most of them? Sure. Certainly the regulars.
The store I worked at had customer accounts set up in the computer we used for a till. Customer purchases were recorded against their account, so we could see who was buying what. Theoretically so we knew who to target for new releases, but someone could easily use that sort of inormation to note, for example, that the guy with 6 drop pods on the table didn't buy any of them in-store.
But even without that I generally had a pretty good idea of what the regulars had bought, without specifically trying to memorise anything. It sort of comes with just taking an interest and getting to know your customers, which is a fairly important part of running a small business even if you're not going to try to hold their purchases from elsewhere against them.
PrinceRaven wrote: My GW has people in there constantly. It's a really friendly environment that encourages you to go in and do some painting or play a game on their tables. In my experience this leads to people (myself included) buying stuff from the store even if they could have got it cheaper somewhere else or didn't actually need to buy it at all.
Totally, I agree. The guys at my local GW have always been heaps friendly. You could argue they push the product too much, but maybe I'm just thicker skinned than your average nerd because it mostly just rolls off my back.
But they've always been friendly and encouraged people to be in the store doing things, whether it's using the tables to game or painting. On multiple occasions they've given me free models (random ones they have lying around) to test a scheme. As much as I hate GW corporate, I've had no problems with my local GW and have on several occasions bought stuff from them simply because I was there and they were helpful. If they'd been obnoxious like the OP's GW, I probably would never set foot in the store let alone buy anything from them.
I have to say I'm against a club pass type set up. Not that I'm actually against the idea, but because I know what it'd end up doing. It'd make it too dense for new players to get in, because when you have a paid membership, even at $5 or so, people feel like they have an obligation to themselves (which is the biggest motivational obligation type) to get their money's worth.
That would mean you'd have an increase at WAAC gamers, and anyone playing "just for fun" would get laughed out. I am lucky that our FLGS only has a few WAAC guys and even then, they are really into 40k so if you ask them to bring a fluffy list because you just want to have fun, they'll usually oblige. And for the record, I consider them friends and want them to get in the types of games they'd rather play, too, so I've told at least one of them to bring a list, quote, "I have no chance of beating." He thrashed me. We had fun.
Everyone who does anything competitive for long enough has the desire to win, I get that. I just wish the rules in 40k were written better and GW actively updated errata and FAQs to clarify things so people would hopefully stop (or at least would be less likely to) actively seeking loopholes to gain unfair advantages against their opponents rather than to play within the game's intentions, which are actually usually pretty fun games.
I have often wondered why gaming stores are not like snooker/pool halls. Tables with terrain on where you put your money in the slot and the lights come on. Hell they could even record games to dvd for a small fee. Vending machines for snacks etc, and small tables for people to chat or play cards.
A fine idea, would be pretty cool that.
I think the whole paying for table time concept depends on context. In the above example it's obviously fine. It's also more justifiable if it's a supply/demand thing, and certainly at a FLGS I'd have less issue with it than at a GW store, who really should be busting a gut to get you into playing their products rather than someone else's. That being said I'd never begrudge paying a deposit of some kind, which you'd lose if you wrecked a scenery piece or the like. Just so that people don't take the utter proverbial with the right to free game.
The notion of paying for a markup on minis obtained elsewhere as outlined earlier tho...that would just turn me off right there, even if the gamer is still notionally 'in the black' paying it.
Gaming clubs - a lot of work but can be excellent if run properly.
PrinceRaven wrote: My GW has people in there constantly. It's a really friendly environment that encourages you to go in and do some painting or play a game on their tables. In my experience this leads to people (myself included) buying stuff from the store even if they could have got it cheaper somewhere else or didn't actually need to buy it at all.
I couldn't say it better myself. Despite how skewed our pricing can seem, I honestly don't mind so much because it provides a great environment to game and hobby up a storm in. I'm even so known by a couple of the guys and the first thing they ask is what I'm working on in-store today.
Well, unless I'm bringing in my Battlefoam case, then they know I'm just looking to play some games and they're cool with that.
I'm definitely a big fan of the pay where you play mentality, even if it does cost you a little extra in the long run. Charging for club entrance when it's a non-official thing? No problems; these people have gone out of their way to set things up and it mostly covers rental costs for the venue. In a store dedicated? Would be a bit debatable for me I would say. But I also shop in the store so I probably wouldn't even notice too much.
I have never been to either of the two GW stores in this country but what I hear from the people who have been to them, they have always had a fee for using the tables. You book a table in advance and then pay a rental fee to use the table for one match. I cant check if it is true though as the stores are half way across the country from me. But I have no reason to not trust the people who said thats how they work.
My FLGS charges a little fee for tables as well. Unless you are a member of the store's Warhammer club. In that case the tables are free, but you have to pay a small fee to be a member.
Wow, fees to use tables, that's annoying, especially if you had bought things there. No store I have ever played at does this nor would I patronize a store that did. Playing a game with a well painted army is free advertising for the product and I couldn't tell you how many times kids who wandered into the store would wander over and watch what we were doing and occasionally they would be back with a new army in hand a few weeks later.
If it was the only store in the area then its time to make your own terrain and start your own group at someone's house. Show your opinion of the store with your wallet and buy online or somewhere else. Dirtbags who charge for table space deserve to go out of business.
Do the charge the MTG players and so forth or is it only the wargamers? That would be something to find out.
Might be time to start buying online and playing at home. After the shop has to close it's doors, the next person to make the venture could learn from their mistake.
Ahh, just realized it was an actual GW instead of an indie. Definately fishy and worth speaking to corporate. Maybe e-mail them the question so you have a "paper trail" and it cant be denied like it could if you called them on the phone. More official and less likely for them to deny it.
It might also be an idea to use a tall models case as a portable table. If all else fails, bring in a folding chair and a TV tray to paint.
I find it funny how many stores seem to think its okay to charge for tables or other such nonsense because you aren't buying figures from them, but don't offer a discount on the figures. My answer to that would be something like "You offer me a 20% discount on GW stuff and I'll only buy from you".
phatonic wrote: Wow wow wow... can they do that? i have never heard anything like this..then again our store aint that big... but we have gaming days but not open days we got clubs for that gotta hear with our manager about it. Where's this store you talking about?
Stores in australia can kick you out at a whim.
I'm pretty sure it's similar in UK. They can kick you out if you're not buying.
I usually try to buy something every time I go to GW. I don't know; I guess I just like the staffers. I try to keep it cheap, and make sure that it's something I or my friends can use, but usually I have a new or in the process army in the works, so there's always something for me to buy.
I think what makes this an issue is that people like the opportunity to give back to a store that provides goods / facilities / a meeting place they like, on their own terms.
Store owners sometimes feel that there are sufficient people that take advantage of the facilities but do not provide sufficient "payback" or worse yet; displace good paying customers.
Trying to find a means to take-in revenue while encouraging "cheap" individuals to go hang out at another venue is what all this is about.
I would have a policy that anyone that has at least bought over $20 in the last week has fair use of the tables, free first time use (while allowing for booking ahead). I would also quietly tally up who are my top 5 customers and ensure they get free cool stuff on occasion.
Wow, ten pounds per guy per table? So twenty pounds per two hour game? That seems a little steep.
My local FLGS has free play but, honestly, I'd rather they switched to a pay to play system depending on what my money bought for me. As long as it was a reasonable price of say $20 for a table for the evening I'd be fine. The problem with the no pay system we have now is that the terrain gets disrespected way too much. A fee would be welcomed by me as long as it helped correct this situation. Similarly, as long as the playing area was not allowed to be a hangout for loud non-gaming people. I'd happily pay a few bucks for a more quiet atmosphere. But hey, all stores are different and each have their own quirks.
Davor wrote: I am wondering to the GW store that charges for the "mark up" fee, if he pays taxes on it.
If not, that would mean GW is now making a profit and not paying taxes on it. This will GW a bad name. I thing Customer Service will really want to know about this store.
Other wise their Lawyers will be doing something else than C&D letters and fighting ChapterHouse in court.
The store with the markup is not a GW store, but the taxes question is an interesting one. Those who are annoyed by the practice could always describe it to the tax man and see if the store owner has been claiming said income on his taxes for the store.
While I agree that a store should not "charge" directly for its tables, every time I play at a store, I try to buy something there.
Dice, paints, a model, anything - to help support the place dedicating sq footage to the game.
I can understand the perspective of the game store owner - those tables and the space the occupy cost him money - if you are not buying products in the store, then he is losing money on the space.
I do agree that some of the....tactics...in getting those sales listed in this thread would cause me to NOT buy things in those stores, but overall, I try to support the stores I play at.
davethepak wrote: I can understand the perspective of the game store owner - those tables and the space the occupy cost him money - if you are not buying products in the store, then he is losing money on the space.
It's not quite that simple, though.
The purpose of that space is to encourage people to send time in the store in the hope that while they are there, they will buy stuff. But that doesn't mean that everyone who uses the tables needs to buy something every time they come into the store in order for that to be effective (although it might be the ideal, it's simply not realistic). Having a thriving gaming community in your store is going to encourage sales, even if some of the individual people in it aren't buying anything... others will be.
davethepak wrote: I can understand the perspective of the game store owner - those tables and the space the occupy cost him money - if you are not buying products in the store, then he is losing money on the space.
It's not quite that simple, though.
The purpose of that space is to encourage people to send time in the store in the hope that while they are there, they will buy stuff. But that doesn't mean that everyone who uses the tables needs to buy something every time they come into the store in order for that to be effective (although it might be the ideal, it's simply not realistic). Having a thriving gaming community in your store is going to encourage sales, even if some of the individual people in it aren't buying anything... others will be.
totally agree - a game store owner wants to create an environment where players want to come ....AND buy stuff.
Good will and community is wonderful...but they have to buy things to pay rent, and rent is charged by the square foot.
This is why I support the stores I play at. Do I buy stuff on ebay, or second hand? Of course, I do - I am not a charity - but on the same token, when I do play the rare game at a store (I have a game room in my house) I try to make sure I buy something.
Now, the main game store in my area I also play other games at as well (they have more than just wargames) - so they have a good selection - the last time I played a game at the store (it was either zombicide, or 40k) I bought a new Xwing mini.
The point is, stores have to make money - the money to pay rent, utilities, invnetory and labor does not come from people hanging out - it comes from sales.
A good store will promote having a community, and treat the players well and try to attract them (contests, leagues, bulliten board, message groups, friendly people, etc.) ...but goodwill does not pay the bills.
I never pay to play unless its a tournament but that is just me.
A better move is to have drinks and snacks for sale. Its a sneaky way to get some extra money off of people without looking like a jerk. Just about everyone will have some loose change in their pockets and its far easier to seperate them from that for a soda than it is to charge them to play.
Profit margin on snacks is also pretty huge. You can get upwards of 80% pure profit on them.
1st of all, did anyone contact corp to see if this is legit?
2nd, if it is not legit, then NO it is NOT perfectly legal!
3rd, if a GW manager/emp sells candy & soda in a store, they could get in serious trouble, if not fired. It is not allowed by policy & if someone was to get ill, they could sue the bejesus outta GW since they do not have a food (sales) permit....
I think this one location has a crooked manager for charging...
I never pay to play unless its a tournament but that is just me.
A better move is to have drinks and snacks for sale. Its a sneaky way to get some extra money off of people without looking like a jerk. Just about everyone will have some loose change in their pockets and its far easier to seperate them from that for a soda than it is to charge them to play.
Profit margin on snacks is also pretty huge. You can get upwards of 80% pure profit on them.
1st of all, did anyone contact corp to see if this is legit?
2nd, if it is not legit, then NO it is NOT perfectly legal!
3rd, if a GW manager/emp sells candy & soda in a store, they could get in serious trouble, if not fired. It is not allowed by policy & if someone was to get ill, they could sue the bejesus outta GW since they do not have a food (sales) permit....
I think this one location has a crooked manager for charging...
I don't think it's necessarily that "they're charging". From what I understand they cannot do anything not associated with an item sale there, but instead they make it so that you buy something(or somethings) that day which equal the dollar amount the manager sets and you get the table time.
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
I remember when some 15 year old ish kid came in after school to look around, was asked to leave and tried to protest he was just looking at stuff, the staff guy just stared him down and told him to go home, he ended up walking out crying.
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.
So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.
phatonic wrote: Wow wow wow... can they do that? i have never heard anything like this..then again our store aint that big... but we have gaming days but not open days we got clubs for that gotta hear with our manager about it. Where's this store you talking about?
Stores in australia can kick you out at a whim.
I'm pretty sure it's similar in UK. They can kick you out if you're not buying.
I usually try to buy something every time I go to GW. I don't know; I guess I just like the staffers. I try to keep it cheap, and make sure that it's something I or my friends can use, but usually I have a new or in the process army in the works, so there's always something for me to buy.
I think in most western countries the store staff is allowed to ask you to leave and if you don't they can call authorities to have you removed.
However, unless someone is being genuinely obnoxious, it's usually a bad business decision to start kicking people out. It's almost always better to encourage people to be in the store than not in the store. A potential customer is better than an empty store.
Psienesis wrote: Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.
So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.
I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...
The fact is, it is a huge honking nail in the store's coffin. one that cannot be removed without removing the policy/manager and even then, it could take years to repair the damage.
You would think GW would hire someone with at least a modicum of business sense. What am I saying? This IS GW we are talking about. Of COURSE they wouldn't.
I used to run a GW store. I never charged for table use, because that's a great way to alienate a large portion of your player base.
I solved the problem of people buying minis elsewhere and wanting to use my tables for free two ways.
1. Encourage a pay where you play mentality. I think most people, at their core, knew that it was a dick move to buy minis off eBayor wherever and then expect to use my tables for free. I wasn't above using a little bit of a guilt trip... "Oh, you got those off eBay? Please don't mention that to anyone while you're here. If everyone buys off eBay and expects to use my tables I won't be able to pay my rent or feed my wife."
2. I ran regular, free events and tournaments with prize support. Anyone who had purchased something in the store the previous week got some sort of advantage in the event... be it free rerolls or a roll on some sort of booster table.
Worked out pretty well. Charging for table use doesn't work in the long run, because your regular customers don't buy something every time they come in.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To add... over the course of 6 months or so, the people who never bought from the store and only played in the events or used the tables quit coming. In a very real sense, those people aren't customers, they're just loitering.
While I don't buy my models from the local GW because of the ridiculous AU prices, I have spent plenty of money there on my codex, paints, brushes, glue, templates, psychic power cards, etc. So I don't feel guilty about hanging out in the store painting and playing some games on their tables. The manager knows I'm a paying customer and has never bothered me about showing up with models I've bought from the other game store nearby that sells them cheaper. This way I support both of my FLGSs while still getting models at a discount and I don't see anything wrong with that.
EVIL INC wrote: Do the charge the MTG players and so forth or is it only the wargamers? That would be something to find out.
Wizards, unlike GW, has sanctioned events though (FNM and such) with entry fees and such and tend to draw in plenty of players regardless with some prize support thrown in too (promo cards, free boosters, etc.) They probably make enough money from that.
Also, unlike Warhammer, MTG is a much more portable game that can be played almost anywhere. Playing in the store is just as viable as playing in the food court in the mall.
Does sound a bit fishy to me. As far as I'm aware my local GW store doesn't charge for table use but then again I've never actually needed to use them (I prefer to paint at home and not really into the actual gaming side as much). The manager there is a sound guy, recognises me even though I'm only in there once a couple of months or so, don't think he'd ever throw anyone out unless they were too roudy or causing disruption to other gamers. The store is always busy when I go in (even at opening times) and the rest of the staff are great too - always happy to chat.
I've seen this sort of behaviour with other companies though (mentioning no names but a well known computer games retailer that nearly went bust here in the UK) - moving away from customer service and been a place where people can talk about products with staff, and concentrating on making as much money as possible to satisfy greedy shareholders. Eventually people don't want to shop there and stop coming so the company goes bust, and that's not even the fact they can buy cheaper online (as with almost all products these days). To me if I want cheap products I'd shop online, but I go to the store to chat to other gamers, the staff, and look at some of the models close-up before purchase.
Anyway, back to OT - I'd email GW customer services and ask if the table charges are legit and the reasoning behind it.
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
Skriker
Did he? where? link it
I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
Skriker
Did he? where? link it
I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.
Skriker
I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.
Elgrun wrote: I remember when some 15 year old ish kid came in after school to look around, was asked to leave and tried to protest he was just looking at stuff, the staff guy just stared him down and told him to go home, he ended up walking out crying.
while we're all enjoying an anti-GW clusterfeth, Hivefleet Jr was playing in a local GW store, and he heard one obnoxious, pony-tailed assistant boasting how he hated children and had chucked out a 13-year old kid in a wheelchair who protested his mom was meeting him later and he had nowehre to go!!
(For full disclosure, the manager is a sweetheart, and seems to accept the mysterious appearance of new troops that come from the discount store donw the road, while we buy the odd cheaper or Direct ONly item from him. )
A system run by people can always run afoul of people's prejudices.
The only way to get rid of those nasty moments of people taking liberties is to have "secret shoppers" to evaluate the environment and how the sales staff conduct themselves. Audits are necessary to ensure systems are working properly.
This is the only way I could see GW staff to be corrected in bad behavior and non-standard store policies.
Plus it would be so easy to pose as a slightly confused parent looking for a "nice" hobby for your kid and looking into all the resources available to them.
Too bad about child employment law, would love to send in a slightly ill behaved 10 year old and see what happens.
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
Skriker
Did he? where? link it
I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.
Skriker
I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.
Psy-Titan wrote: As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed.
I think it's implied by this sentence. The mention of store credit suggests that he/she bought the models there and won't have back-dated time in the store to account for that.
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
Skriker
Did he? where? link it
I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.
Skriker
I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.
Psy-Titan wrote: As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed.
I think it's implied by this sentence. The mention of store credit suggests that he/she bought the models there and won't have back-dated time in the store to account for that.
Pretty shoddy customer service if true...
The post only suggests it, nowhere does he say for certain that he bought those 4000 pts of models in that shop.
EVIL INC wrote: Do the charge the MTG players and so forth or is it only the wargamers? That would be something to find out.
Wizards, unlike GW, has sanctioned events though (FNM and such) with entry fees and such and tend to draw in plenty of players regardless with some prize support thrown in too (promo cards, free boosters, etc.) They probably make enough money from that.
Also, unlike Warhammer, MTG is a much more portable game that can be played almost anywhere. Playing in the store is just as viable as playing in the food court in the mall.
Table us is table use whether its 40k, MTG, painting or eating lunch. The end result is a table is being used. That means how much MTG sells is not relevant.
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
Skriker
Did he? where? link it
I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.
Skriker
I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.
Psy-Titan wrote: As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed.
I think it's implied by this sentence. The mention of store credit suggests that he/she bought the models there and won't have back-dated time in the store to account for that.
Pretty shoddy customer service if true...
The post only suggests it, nowhere does he say for certain that he bought those 4000 pts of models in that shop.
I can't help thinking this is a troll thread.
Of course it doesn't say it with certainty, but I think it suggests it very heavily.
Makumba wrote:Shop owners don't care about sells that were already done by you , only for the sales you can make in the future.
I agree - which is why this is a ridiculous policy. Why would anyone go back to a company that treats their customers like this? This thread alone is reason enough to avoid this policy.
Psienesis wrote: Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.
So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.
I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...
The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.
I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.
I have noticed a disturbing trend recently (One which did effect me, but then receded) where Games Workshop 'hobby centers' have simply became Games Workshop 'stores'. Luckily my manager is a great guy and lets us stay as long as we want, use tables freely and without pre-booking (But if you pre-book then you get residence) and use the painting stations. But there was a short amount of time where we had a substitute manager who instantly ejected half of the customers by saying only pre-booked games (booked at least 1 day in advance) and if you weren't playing or painting (for which you had to buy something) you had to leave. That store was a ghost town for the 3 weeks we had him, and the store got together to throw our old manager a welcome back party when he came back.
I honestly wouldn't mind paying a fee for tables, but since i am a young teen with no income, it would mean instead of spending £30 a month on models i would likely only spend £10 on tables and maybe buy some models every two months. It would also put an even higher buy in to the hobby discouraging new players. I love my store, it seems to be a dying breed. Long live the GWHobby Center![i]
Psienesis wrote: Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.
So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.
I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...
The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.
I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.
AH. So now we're linking 'not wanting to pay for a table' with 'not wanting to be in a store' with 'being TFG' with having poor hygiene...?
Maybe we can add that charging for tables will mean fewer people showing up in fluffy bunny slippers while you're just stereotyping people at random...
AH. So now we're linking 'not wanting to pay for a table' with 'not wanting to be in a store' with 'being TFG' with having poor hygiene...?
That is more or less the standard thing you accuse opponents about . They are dirty , ergo low class , not realy our kind of people as our people are pure . they are the worse of the worse , which is best symbolised with accusations of canibalism .
our dudes are the good non paying guys , freedom for all , friendly etc and the other side is TFGWAAC baby eating unwashed ruffians at best.
That is more or less the standard thing you accuse opponents about . They are dirty , ergo low class , not realy our kind of people as our people are pure . they are the worse of the worse , which is best symbolised with accusations of canibalism .
our dudes are the good non paying guys , freedom for all , friendly etc and the other side is TFGWAAC baby eating unwashed ruffians at best.
Maybe this is my youth showing, but this reminds me inexplicably of Pocahontas!
Maybe in each store they could have a deodorant vending machine, or better yet, just a Vending Machine! I am sure that would bring in more customers, you catch more bee's with Maltesers then with Tax's.
Charging for tables is ridiculous. You want your customers/fans of gaming to hang out in the stores. People who are pro-gaming is free advertisement. If I'm hanging out at the game store playing a game...I'd pause to talk to curious people and be a proponent for the game. It's always great if there is a possibility of future people to game against.
Stores should sell drinks / snacks. Us gamers who hang out get thirsty...easy extra few bucks.
If funds / work needs to be done on table, I'm sure people would donate their time to build / work on tables or donate terrain. I'd donate terrain, it's not an issue.
In the end, you want loyal customers who are happy. I drive out of my way and spend my gas to shop at my local game store because I want to fuel the hobby.
Stores can't get mad if you show up with an army and have never seen you. I've been in the Army since 1998, and move a gak ton. I've also been playing GW games since 1996....so I have also a gak ton of their stuff.
The FLGS where I'm currently at is great. 20% off GW stuff. Also tourney / events have a $10 fee...but all costs go to prizes. More players = more stuff to give out, they don't pocket any of it.
I get that people don't like the idea of paying for something that has historically generally been free... but I don't really see that charging for gaming tables is ultimately any more ridiculous than, say, a Pool Hall charging for the use of their tables.
Yes, having people in the store playing can be a good drawcard, and that's why stores do it. But whether or not just having people playing in the store is enough to pay for itself is going to depend entirely on the local players and their spending habits.
So if having those tables isn't doing anything appreciable to boost sales, then charging for their use is a sensible option. Just as players aren't obligated to spend money if they make use of a service offered for no charge, a store is not obligated to provide players with free gaming space.
Psienesis wrote: Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.
So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.
I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...
The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.
I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.
TFG is more than willing to buy something small for the privilege of siting there for 9 hours and tormenting others. Especially, if he can force you to pay to play or snitch on you for not buying anything if you disagree with him on something.
Psienesis wrote: Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.
So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.
I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...
The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.
I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.
AH. So now we're linking 'not wanting to pay for a table' with 'not wanting to be in a store' with 'being TFG' with having poor hygiene...?
Maybe we can add that charging for tables will mean fewer people showing up in fluffy bunny slippers while you're just stereotyping people at random...
FFS, are you being purposefully obtuse?
I am not talking about the OP, I'm speaking directly about why a store owner/operator might apply a charge to use the tables in his store. Since I don't know the store in question, I can only draw conclusions on the many stores in my local area that I've been in, and, yes, there have definitely been some rank-ass people up in them bishes.
So maybe the store owner, instead of wanting to confront the not-the-fething-OP guy/gal directly with "yo, dude/dudette, wash your ass before you come in here. Also, Right Guard. Make it happen" he instead says, "Uh, guys, I need to start charging for the table space, because otherwise I could use this to put shelves to stock more merchandise that sells better than these things do" but what he is really doing is taxing TFGs for being TFGs in his store.... as well as potential TFGs and everyone else, because then it has the appearance of fairness, and he doesn't have to deal with the TFG whinefest.
Hell, maybe the storeowner is a different variant of TFG, the one that has just enough knowledge to be dangerous, but doesn't really know his gak all that well, and he's intimidated by the lore-mastery of the usual gang of players that have been hanging out in his shop, and because he judges his masculine worth by this, he decides to start charging for tables, because then all these lore-goons will get butthurt and leave.
insaniak wrote: I get that people don't like the idea of paying for something that has historically generally been free... but I don't really see that charging for gaming tables is ultimately any more ridiculous than, say, a Pool Hall charging for the use of their tables.
Yes, having people in the store playing can be a good drawcard, and that's why stores do it. But whether or not just having people playing in the store is enough to pay for itself is going to depend entirely on the local players and their spending habits.
So if having those tables isn't doing anything appreciable to boost sales, then charging for their use is a sensible option. Just as players aren't obligated to spend money if they make use of a service offered for no charge, a store is not obligated to provide players with free gaming space.
What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price. As to where a GW "hobby center" sells products that are it's primary source of income. Then they start charging you extra to come back and give them advertisement as to what you can do with the for mentioned product. That's just giving you the knife their going to cut you with.
So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? That's the problem it's not so much the fact that they are charging it's the fact that they are kicking their loyal customers in the rear.
Psienesis wrote:So maybe the store owner, instead of wanting to confront the not-the-fething-OP guy/gal directly with "yo, dude/dudette, wash your ass before you come in here. Also, Right Guard. Make it happen" he instead says, "Uh, guys, I need to start charging for the table space, because otherwise I could use this to put shelves to stock more merchandise that sells better than these things do" but what he is really doing is taxing TFGs for being TFGs in his store.... as well as potential TFGs and everyone else, because then it has the appearance of fairness, and he doesn't have to deal with the TFG whinefest.
Yes, I got that this was what you were saying the first time. It still doesn't make any sense when you repeat it.
You have apparently arbitrarily decided that people with poor hygiene are TFGs who will refuse to pay for table space. Which is just an absolutely bizarre thing to say.
DarkWind wrote:What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price.
No, I understand the difference between a pool hall and a gaming store. The thing is, the only reason the gaming store isn't in the business of renting out their tables is that they choose to not do so.
So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? .
No. The store isn't the only place on the planet that the game can be played.
But you could make the same argument about anything... I just spent $300 on a squash racquet from his store, and now the court owner wants me to pay to play on his court? Madness, I tells you!
So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? .
No. The store isn't the only place on the planet that the game can be played.
But you could make the same argument about anything... I just spent $300 on a squash racquet from his store, and now the court owner wants me to pay to play on his court? Madness, I tells you!
Yes but I'm sure the guy running the court isn't a part of a multinational company. As I said in a past post I could understand a locally owned store charging, but were talking about a GW store. A company that prides it's self on it's model sales from "mouth to mouth" advertisement wants to charge you to give them physical advertisement? Just seems like a double standard. Help us expand our product, but if you want to play our game in our store possibly bringing new players into the game give us money.
insaniak wrote: I get that people don't like the idea of paying for something that has historically generally been free... but I don't really see that charging for gaming tables is ultimately any more ridiculous than, say, a Pool Hall charging for the use of their tables.
Yes, having people in the store playing can be a good drawcard, and that's why stores do it. But whether or not just having people playing in the store is enough to pay for itself is going to depend entirely on the local players and their spending habits.
So if having those tables isn't doing anything appreciable to boost sales, then charging for their use is a sensible option. Just as players aren't obligated to spend money if they make use of a service offered for no charge, a store is not obligated to provide players with free gaming space.
What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price. As to where a GW "hobby center" sells products that are it's primary source of income. Then they start charging you extra to come back and give them advertisement as to what you can do with the for mentioned product. That's just giving you the knife their going to cut you with.
I dunno about you, but most pool halls I go to, I spend more money on booze and stuff than the actual table (though there is some around that charge a ton for the use of the table as well). Or a pub with a pool table, they'll make an order of magnitude more off me with alcohol in a night than the use of the table.
But then GW aren't really like either of those, because a pub is constantly selling you stuff, a hobby store can't expect to constantly be selling you stuff. Once I've bought my models, bought my paints and I already have the tools... really I have no need to buy anything from the hobby store (unless they sell food/drink).
AllSeeingSkink wrote: But then GW aren't really like either of those, because a pub is constantly selling you stuff, a hobby store can't expect to constantly be selling you stuff. Once I've bought my models, bought my paints and I already have the tools... really I have no need to buy anything from the hobby store (unless they sell food/drink).
That's why a good gaming venue should have a bar...
What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price. As to where a GW "hobby center" sells products that are it's primary source of income. Then they start charging you extra to come back and give them advertisement as to what you can do with the for mentioned product. That's just giving you the knife their going to cut you with.
So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? That's the problem it's not so much the fact that they are charging it's the fact that they are kicking their loyal customers in the rear.
And the shops that sell pool cues, don't have tables to play on. The two are not necessarily linked, because you provide a product, you do not have to provide a place to play
Drawing analogies with restaurants, pubs, pool halls, gyms, it's all pretty meaningless.
Table top gaming is largely unique in that you buy a bunch of models, take them home, spend weeks if not months painting them, then come back some time later to actually play a game. Once you have your army you have it, you may very well not have to buy anything new for years.
It's not like a restaurant or pub where you go buy something and consume it immediately on the premises. It's not like a gym where you are specifically going there to use the equipment and you aren't actually buying anything.
Trying to draw parallels is a bit meaningless IMO.
I would never pay to use tables, however, I can kind of understand the need to do something on the part of the manager. Chances are he had to pay for the table(s), and typically there is GW terrain all over them, and thats out of someone's pocket. So if everyone is showing up with stuff bought from Ebay then they are just using him and he gets screwed.
On the other hand, you need to promote the hobby and if you dont provide a place to play, then people will look elsewhere and thats even fewer people coming into your store.
Seems like you are screwed either way, and its no wonder gaming stores don't last long.
I've seen tht TFG and oor hygiene players are more than willing to pay for tables. Much more so than normal loyal customers. Possibly becaus they dont spend money on store product or soap. That leaves TFG in charge right behind the storeowner as they are paying to rent the tables and willing to lord it over others who want to use them.
This poor hygiene thing... I mean people are talking about smell right? I really can't imagine this being an issue for 99% of fanbase's , why does it have to be one for ours?
Seems like there's a plague of these people looking at some of these posts.... Honestly if you can't respect people enough to pick up a bar of soap everyday then I'm fine with kicking them out.
loki old fart wrote: I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.
Whatever man. If you can't be bothered to find the post yourself it isn't my job to find it for you. I really couldn't care less one way or the other if he did or didn't. Not like posting a comment on dakka is like testifying in court or anything. This has to be the funniest response I've ever gotten here...
If the goods do not sell enough, services need to be charged.
Simple math for a business, they MUST pay their bills and some amount of profit for expanding the business is needed.
Keeping count of foot traffic entering the store per month, overhead cost per month, gross sales per month (Can even track each instance of a sale to figure out ratio of sales vs. people entered store) all then gives a picture of what is going on and where you have your revenue issues.
Tables or space in general may need a membership fee or charge on use if the turnover of stock is not enough to pay the bills.
My original email to GW (copy & pasted OP start of thread) -
"GW,
So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. Is this a new policy?
Thanks'
John"
That was it, (I did add "Is this a new policy?")
...................................and based on their response, and speed of it, I would say that manager crossed the line. Speaking to my local GW manager, they have quotas to meet, and they are under pressure, so someone may have turned to this trick.
Here is response -
"Hey there,
Thanks for writing in to us and bringing this to our attention. We take this kind of feedback about our stores extremely seriously and I will be sure to pass your comments on to the appropriate people for further investigation. It may be that we have to contact you for further information of clarification on some of the points you’ve raised. Would you be open to being contacted by us and can you provide us with a phone number for us to do so?
Thanks!
Games Workshop"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well this opened a can of worms, 2 more GW emails...
"Hey there,
Thanks for being open to us contacting you but you did not provide us with a phone number.
Thanks!"
They REALLY want to get to the bottom of this NOW!
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I contacted GW this morning, and based on their response, and speed of it, I would say that manager crossed the line. Speaking to my local GW manager, they have quotas to meet, and they are under pressure, so someone may have turned to this trick.
Here is response -
"Hey there,
Thanks for writing in to us and bringing this to our attention. We take this kind of feedback about our stores extremely seriously and I will be sure to pass your comments on to the appropriate people for further investigation. It may be that we have to contact you for further information of clarification on some of the points you’ve raised. Would you be open to being contacted by us and can you provide us with a phone number for us to do so?
Thanks!
Games Workshop"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well this opened a can of worms, 2 more GW emails...
"Hey there,
Thanks for being open to us contacting you but you did not provide us with a phone number.
Thanks!"
They REALLY want to get to the bottom of this NOW!
Well, yeah. Of course they do.
From the way you posted earlier in this thread, I'm thinking your email was worded such that it's easy to insinuate that the manager is actually requiring people to PAY to use the tables.
There's a very subtle difference between "Buy X amount of product to use the table" and "Pay X amount of money to use the table".
The first option uses the register and leaves a trail that can be followed by transactions and still results in product being sold along with money being properly handled. The second allows for someone to be actively stealing/skimming product and selling it on the side while also shorting the register.
The second scenario is something I've seen before in independent shops that weren't very well run.
If you worded your email in such a way that they think "One of our managers is stealing"--of course they want to get to the bottom of it.
"Hey there,
We would like to get some more clarifying information from you. What Games Workshop location did this occur? What is the manager's name? Do you have receipts of these transactions? The more information you can provide the better.
Thanks"
So, Psy-Titan (OP), who, what, when, how often, and where?
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I contacted GW this morning, and based on their response, and speed of it, I would say that manager crossed the line. Speaking to my local GW manager, they have quotas to meet, and they are under pressure, so someone may have turned to this trick.
Here is response -
"Hey there,
Thanks for writing in to us and bringing this to our attention. We take this kind of feedback about our stores extremely seriously and I will be sure to pass your comments on to the appropriate people for further investigation. It may be that we have to contact you for further information of clarification on some of the points you’ve raised. Would you be open to being contacted by us and can you provide us with a phone number for us to do so?
Thanks!
Games Workshop"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well this opened a can of worms, 2 more GW emails...
"Hey there,
Thanks for being open to us contacting you but you did not provide us with a phone number.
Thanks!"
They REALLY want to get to the bottom of this NOW!
Well, yeah. Of course they do.
From the way you posted earlier in this thread, I'm thinking your email was worded such that it's easy to insinuate that the manager is actually requiring people to PAY to use the tables.
There's a very subtle difference between "Buy X amount of product to use the table" and "Pay X amount of money to use the table".
The first option uses the register and leaves a trail that can be followed by transactions and still results in product being sold along with money being properly handled. The second allows for someone to be actively stealing/skimming product and selling it on the side while also shorting the register.
The second scenario is something I've seen before in independent shops that weren't very well run.
If you worded your email in such a way that they think "One of our managers is stealing"--of course they want to get to the bottom of it.
My original email to GW (copy & pasted OP start of thread) -
"GW,
So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. Is this a new policy?
Thanks'
John"
That was it, (I did add "Is this a new policy?" .....now they are in a tizzy & witch hunt.
Elgrun wrote: This poor hygiene thing... I mean people are talking about smell right? I really can't imagine this being an issue for 99% of fanbase's , why does it have to be one for ours?
Seems like there's a plague of these people looking at some of these posts.... Honestly if you can't respect people enough to pick up a bar of soap everyday then I'm fine with kicking them out.
It's not uncommon in any RPG crowd, too, though incidents of it usually decrease the older your gaming group gets, or if you only game among friends to whom you don't feel so off in telling them to wash their ass. However, some of the game-tables Ive sat at at RustyCon or NWCon or DragonCon or whatever, were definitely ripe for an Old Spice commercial to break out at.
Though, there are people with poor hygiene all over the place, basically through choice, and not just in war-gaming or RPGs or whatever... just that most of us are unlikely to encounter such people on a regular basis. I'm sure anyone here who works at a grocery or other high-volume retail location, or in a call-center, could comment on some of their customers/co-workers.
Insaniak wrote:
You have apparently arbitrarily decided that people with poor hygiene are TFGs who will refuse to pay for table space. Which is just an absolutely bizarre thing to say.
You do realize that "TFG" is a very open-ended term. It's "That Fething Guy", as in "don't be That Guy", where "That Guy" fits a contextually-defined standard of unwanted behavior or action.
For example, it's the guy who cuts his way through the line at the grocery store by standing at the magazine rack and staring at the swimsuit model, who then hops in line ahead of you with a basket full of wtfever... and then tries to pay cash but doesn't have enough and so has to then spend 20 minutes deciding what he's going to have the clerk put back..
Don't be "That Fething Guy".
TFGs are not always some WAAC-type player. TFG could be the kid who only plays fluffy build lists but then bursts into tears when his badly-FOC'd SM army gets blown off the table by your SOB list, because "SPACE MUHREENS DON'T EVER LOOSE (sic) !!11one!!eleven!!"
Don't be "That Fething Guy".
TFG, in this usage, is the TFG that sits there in the store, getting Cheetos dust all over the store copy of the book, hasn't bathed in six months, and leers at anything with an X chromosome that walks through the door. Actual play-style is irrelevant.
Kanluwen thinks I should have emailed the entire claim/rant that the OP had...
"So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it? "
Although, I feel that the main first sentence was sufficient in getting an answer from GW. It was also the main point of his (the OP) thread and beef. Does anyone else feel I had some influence on the answer from GW because I left out -
"As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?"
Personally, I do not see any info in the extra portion that would change GWs mind that it is WRONG AND AGAINST POLICY to require a minimum purchase to use the tables that are in the store and/or pay to use the tables...
The meat & potatoes of the original OPs post was -
"So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. "
And that is that. An official GW store/manager requiring a 10 pound min purchase to use tables, is enough for GW to hear and give an answer to.... (based on their reaction, I would say there was a foul here).
Wrong is Wrong no matter how you slice it/word it.
Now we only need to know if either
A.) The OP was trolling,
or,
B.) The OP was honest & if it is policy or a GW Manager needs to be fired.
Pretty sure that I didn't say anything about that.
Personally though I don't think that "you should have emailed the entire claim/rant that the OP had".
I don't think that YOU should have emailed them anything except a link to this thread and a brief explanation of the situation. Something to the effect of "Soandso on Dakka Dakka is claiming that their local GW store is now requiring players to buy a minimum of 10 GBP worth of product for every two hours of table use. Is this something that is encouraged by your corporate policies?"
"The main first sentence" is vague and provides very little actual information.
It's important to remember as well that a shop requiring a 10 pound minimum purchase to use tables for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store is VERY different from a shop requiring you to flatout spend 10 pounds for every 2 hours.
Elgrun wrote: This poor hygiene thing... I mean people are talking about smell right? I really can't imagine this being an issue for 99% of fanbase's , why does it have to be one for ours?
Seems like there's a plague of these people looking at some of these posts.... Honestly if you can't respect people enough to pick up a bar of soap everyday then I'm fine with kicking them out.
Should be no problem telling a stinky person that they need to bathe. Simply tel them it is affecting your busniness because it is chasing customers away. Tell them they are welcome back when they dont stink.
This case is obviously not because of "stinky players" though.
Kanluwen wrote: Pretty sure that I didn't say anything about that.
Personally though I don't think that "you should have emailed the entire claim/rant that the OP had".
I don't think that YOU should have emailed them anything except a link to this thread and a brief explanation of the situation. Something to the effect of "Soandso on Dakka Dakka is claiming that their local GW store is now requiring players to buy a minimum of 10 GBP worth of product for every two hours of table use. Is this something that is encouraged by your corporate policies?"
"The main first sentence" is vague and provides very little actual information.
It's important to remember as well that a shop requiring a 10 pound minimum purchase to use tables for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store is VERY different from a shop requiring you to flatout spend 10 pounds for every 2 hours.
I PMd the OP several times & posted a msg to him to contact GW direct. He gave no answer. I assumed since my word for word email to GW (the OPs actual words) were "under attack/scrutiny" I would not have emailed my point of view/understanding of a thread to GW... (Last time I sent GW a link, they blew it off, they have a policy not to comment or get entangled with blogs)... AGAIN, I SENT GW THE OPS EXACT PHRASE. No interp, translation, not my words, nada.... Get off my back, I have NO weight on GW saying it is wrong. Contact the OP and have him give you a COMPLETE word by word dissect of his underlying meanings of the words he said or meant to say.
At the end of the day, an official GW store does not charge entry fees, and/or fees to stay in stores, and/or fees to use tables, and/or require minimum purchases to do any of the mentioned, and/or sell food/drinks, and/or violate GW policy......it is not GW policy/nor is it the manager's right or decision to make a policy for his/her own store, or any combo of the above.
Psy-Titan wrote: So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?
This did not happen.
We've had this exact thread before and it did not happen.
This right here.
Troll thread.
GW responded to me (if this is really happening) it is a violation of GW policy.
Take this thread with a big dose of salt...... the OP (who joined a year ago) is "A fresh face new user" and has 2 threads started.....
Automatically Appended Next Post: OP said it was one of these stores ("...London borough location...") but did not want to get manager in trouble (Because "...he is a nice guy...")
Games Workshop
Lancer Square, London · +44 20 7937 7011
Unit F10, The Plaza, 116/128 Oxford Street, London · +44 20 7436 0839
3637a Myddleton Street, LONDON · +44 20 7713 0835
Unit 33 The Market, London · +44 20 7240 5106
161 King St, London · +44 20 8846 9744
Unit 93 The Mall Wood Green, London · +44 20 8889 1079
117 Alexandra Park Road, Muswell Hill, LONDON · +44 20 8883 9901
Moor House, 120 London Wall, London · +44 800 394 4263
loki old fart wrote: The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.
Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.
Skriker
Did he? where? link it
I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.
Skriker
I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.
Psy-Titan wrote: As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed.
I think it's implied by this sentence. The mention of store credit suggests that he/she bought the models there and won't have back-dated time in the store to account for that.
Pretty shoddy customer service if true...
The post only suggests it, nowhere does he say for certain that he bought those 4000 pts of models in that shop.
There have been a few weird ones... I particularly remember one kid posting how one GW manager had some sort of surveillance software monitoring what he was buying.
I facebooked messaged all London GW stores, and GWHQ in the UK, so far 2 managers said this is not policy, and it is untrue. Hq said they are investigating.
Well, if what those FBGW people posted, there's no "official inquest". If a Store Manager can run his store as he likes, then he's free to charge for table time, or to give vouchers/coupons that can be used towards it if you spend X amount.
pejota wrote: My FLGS here in the states has a slightly similar policy.
If you buy stuff from him you can play on the tables for free. He also runs tournaments and special events but doesn't charge an entry fee.
If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.
lol this guy sounds like he is in the mob, he gets a cut of all warhammer action no matter where it happens.
You are free to buy from who ever you want, as long as bender gets to wet his beak lol.
"...we don't charge for anything other than the product off the shelves. I couldn't imagine this would be true but that my guess. It would be a manager up to it, and it would be against the rules. Let me know if you find out anything else.
Thanks
~Mitchel"
I know of a GW store that give vouchers for table/store time for purchases over a certain value.
It's a good idea, and can let people 'jump the queue' if there is a queue.
But it seems as though some stores run schemes of some kind. Taking money for table-time seems to be the tipping point for GWHQ to clamp down.
I don't play my games in GW or independant stores.
I go to a club where I pay £2 to play, no matter how many games I get in. This I am happy to pay as all the money generated goes into a kitty to buy more scenery/rulebooks for the club (they get the space for free as the pub gets more money from drinks and food).
Yeah, if my local GW starts charging for table use I'll just go to the club more often, with 5 times the number of tables, heaps of terrain to choose from, and no little kids to bother me while I'm painting. Or I'll grab a bus and go to the other local store a bit further away.
My FLGS charges a flat fee for use of the gaming space/painting tables that runs at the equivalent of about 5.5$ for full day access and I definitely don't mind paying that for the ~4 hours I usually end up spending there when I do.
Games Workshop: Croydon
So It's not as straight forward as that. Some GW managers run voucher schemes, where you get a voucher every time you spend certain amounts of money. These can be used for gaming table time,paint station time as well as entry into certain store events. This is the choice the manager, and can be attributed to only having certain amounts of space for games, painting etc, and rewarding loyal customers with the time to use the space. I myself don't do this but I have the space to be able to facilitate most hobby requests and needs. All I ask is two days notice for bookings, as I do get busy. Hope this helps
How does this point to croyden??? Try reading before posting.
TFG, in this usage, is the TFG that sits there in the store, getting Cheetos dust all over the store copy of the book, hasn't bathed in six months, and leers at anything with an X chromosome that walks through the door. Actual play-style is irrelevant.
yeah, Bi-Sexual TFGs are the worse. They hit on everyone
Woops, you are right. Serves me right for reading on my iPhone....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mod, go ahead and lock thread. Conclusion is either OP (who has not responded to posts or pms) of other thread is trolling and/or just wants to bad mouth gw , or, in my inquiries a manager of one of the 14 gws in london realized his scam was up (if this truely happening at all)......probably will stop now.....
The OP (or original instigator) should have said "My local GW store is so busy and crowded that they worked up a system, that for every 10 GBP you spend, you earn a voucher for 2 hours time for either a game table or painting station." That would have been a clear statement, that is GW policy based on circumstances and manager discretion, but rarely used except in really busy scenarios.... He had merely said he had to spend 10 gbp in a gw store yo use a atble for 2 hours... misleading troll
Talizvar wrote: It is called store manager is afraid for his job and is doing everything he can to get sales. Get the regional rep and "ask" if this is the new policy for the store and see how fast this is fixed.
I think this is a little off quoting myself but... evidence.
Within about 3 postings of the OP I figured this was the thing to do if true.
Looks like someone was a little more aggressive than what I suggested and looks like it got GW excited... kinda figured.
Even worse if some key facts were not mentioned or distorted, hope some innocent manager did not get slammed, they got enough to deal with.
If he were smart he would set up a soda and snack bar where the tables are...that would bring in a nice cash flow on busy nights and would not piss people off
BrotherVord wrote: If he were smart he would set up a soda and snack bar where the tables are...that would bring in a nice cash flow on busy nights and would not piss people off
Except he would need a license to sell the food and would need the space which most GW shops don't have and furthermore he would need a way to keep the tables clean since they will be in use constantly and without much for people to set things on some will go for the table itself.
BrotherVord wrote: If he were smart he would set up a soda and snack bar where the tables are...that would bring in a nice cash flow on busy nights and would not piss people off
Except he would need a license to sell the food and would need the space which most GW shops don't have and furthermore he would need a way to keep the tables clean since they will be in use constantly and without much for people to set things on some will go for the table itself.
Not in the UK. Selling fresh food prepared on site is regulated, but reselling stuff like soda, chips or candy that arrives in a sealed packet/bag/bottle is perfectly acceptable.
BrotherVord wrote: If he were smart he would set up a soda and snack bar where the tables are...that would bring in a nice cash flow on busy nights and would not piss people off
Except he would need a license to sell the food and would need the space which most GW shops don't have and furthermore he would need a way to keep the tables clean since they will be in use constantly and without much for people to set things on some will go for the table itself.
Not in the UK. Selling fresh food prepared on site is regulated, but reselling stuff like soda, chips or candy that arrives in a sealed packet/bag/bottle is perfectly acceptable.
Ah well then that would most likely be a great idea if they had the space to do so!
BrotherVord wrote: If he were smart he would set up a soda and snack bar where the tables are...that would bring in a nice cash flow on busy nights and would not piss people off
Except he would need a license to sell the food and would need the space which most GW shops don't have and furthermore he would need a way to keep the tables clean since they will be in use constantly and without much for people to set things on some will go for the table itself.
Not in the UK. Selling fresh food prepared on site is regulated, but reselling stuff like soda, chips or candy that arrives in a sealed packet/bag/bottle is perfectly acceptable.
Ah well then that would most likely be a great idea if they had the space to do so!
As I'm sure is the case in the States, nearly every Indy FLGS I've been to has a fridge full of drink at least.
The issue for a GW manager is obtaining stock at wholesale would be difficult, as he'd either have to buy it himself or get HO to set up an account with a wholesaler. The items wouldn't be in the SKU database to sell through the till, meaning it wouldn't count towards sales targets, again unless GW were to do it for all stores, and if he DID buy it in and sell it himself, pocketing the proceeds, the odds are management would take a dim view if they caught him, and it wouldn't help him keep his job if his model sales weren't up to scratch.
It is a good idea, but it would be hard to implement successfully.
"My local GW store is so busy and crowded that they worked up a system, that for every 10 GBP you spend, you earn a voucher for 2 hours time for either a game table or painting station."
That would have been a clear & true statement by the OP if he had clearly included everything he was trying to say, that is GW policy in UKBTW..... (or allowed by manager)....
this thread is dead now that we know the OP didn't truly state the case/facts properly.
No one at GW London locations got in trouble, I re-emailed GWHQ in UK & explained misinformation to them.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: The OP (or original instigator) should have said "My local GW store is so busy and crowded that they worked up a system, that for every 10 GBP you spend, you earn a voucher for 2 hours time for either a game table or painting station." That would have been a clear statement, that is GW policy based on circumstances and manager discretion, but rarely used except in really busy scenarios.... He had merely said he had to spend 10 gbp in a gw store yo use a atble for 2 hours... misleading troll
Or maybe you shouldn't have gone on a crusade stirring up inquiries with GW in a country you don't even live in because the idea of charging for tables offends your moral sensibilities.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrotherVord wrote: If he were smart he would set up a soda and snack bar where the tables are...that would bring in a nice cash flow on busy nights and would not piss people off
Actually I hate being under pressure to buy things I don't want just to redress some unspoken social expectation. I would FAR rather they just said up front £2 to use our tables for three hours and I could bring my own snacks without the owner feeling I was being a cheapskate and other players feeling they were subsidising me.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: The OP (or original instigator) should have said "My local GW store is so busy and crowded that they worked up a system, that for every 10 GBP you spend, you earn a voucher for 2 hours time for either a game table or painting station." That would have been a clear statement, that is GW policy based on circumstances and manager discretion, but rarely used except in really busy scenarios.... He had merely said he had to spend 10 gbp in a gw store yo use a atble for 2 hours... misleading troll
Wow! I only check dakka every now and then but i come back and see this angry stuff posted on this thread! Some of it is so aggressive and insulting! My responses are not solely aimed at the poster i have quoted (though he does seem to be the most disturbed) but to answer all questions. To clear a few things up after reading the buckettloads of responses:
1. First of all I want to make it clear my original post was the absolute truth. Nothing misleading about it. It may have been misconstrued, perhaps I might have worded it better but it was absolutely true and I am not a troll. There were no vouchers involved and it had nothing to do with the store being too busy- quite the opposite actually i suspect.
2. To the people that wanted to know if I bought my most recent army from this store the answer is: some of it yes, some of it from another GW store and some of it online as bits.
3. Update to situation: 3 days ago I went in the store and was informed that the regional manager had been in touch with the store manager and he had informed him he can't require any monetary purchase for time in store and the policy has been reversed. I suspect this may have been due to the heat created on this very forum and particularly from the actions of the poster I have quoted above as I have seen he has gained responses from at least one manager geographically close to my local store whom I know has connections with my local store- so ironically I may have to thank you for that despite how quick you have been to call me a liar.
4. Directly to the poster above. You are very wrong. In previous posts you accused me of bullsh#ting simply because I won't name the store. I already stated in a previous post that the fact is I didn't want to land the manager in trouble cos he is a really nice guy and works hard. Although I don't agree with him bringing in this policy I've known him for a while and he certainly wasn't trying to con anyone. I just think his store has hit hard times through no fault of his own cos I see how hard he works to bring people in when I am in there. Why would I want to get him in trouble? We are not all vengeful. Sometimes looking out for someone you think is a decent guy is more important than getting your own way. I know dakka is full of arguementative tw#ts but you were too quick to pull the trigger at me dude. I am not a liar. So although it seems I might possibly have you to thank for having this policy reversed you were wrong about pretty much everything else and I don't appreciate being called a liar for whatever that means to you.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: The OP (or original instigator) should have said "My local GW store is so busy and crowded that they worked up a system, that for every 10 GBP you spend, you earn a voucher for 2 hours time for either a game table or painting station." That would have been a clear statement, that is GW policy based on circumstances and manager discretion, but rarely used except in really busy scenarios.... He had merely said he had to spend 10 gbp in a gw store yo use a atble for 2 hours... misleading troll
Wow! I only check dakka every now and then but i come back and see this angry stuff posted on this thread! Some of it is so aggressive and insulting! My responses are not solely aimed at the poster i have quoted (though he does seem to be the most disturbed) but to answer all questions. To clear a few things up after reading the buckettloads of responses:
1. First of all I want to make it clear my original post was the absolute truth. Nothing misleading about it. It may have been misconstrued, perhaps I might have worded it better but it was absolutely true and I am not a troll. There were no vouchers involved and it had nothing to do with the store being too busy- quite the opposite actually i suspect.
2. To the people that wanted to know if I bought my most recent army from this store the answer is: some of it yes, some of it from another GW store and some of it online as bits.
3. Update to situation: 3 days ago I went in the store and was informed that the regional manager had been in touch with the store manager and he had informed him he can't require any monetary purchase for time in store and the policy has been reversed. I suspect this may have been due to the heat created on this very forum and particularly from the actions of the poster I have quoted above as I have seen he has gained responses from at least one manager geographically close to my local store whom I know has connections with my local store- so ironically I may have to thank you for that despite how quick you have been to call me a liar.
4. Directly to the poster above. You are very wrong. In previous posts you accused me of bullsh#ting simply because I won't name the store. I already stated in a previous post that the fact is I didn't want to land the manager in trouble cos he is a really nice guy and works hard. Although I don't agree with him bringing in this policy I've known him for a while and he certainly wasn't trying to con anyone. I just think his store has hit hard times through no fault of his own cos I see how hard he works to bring people in when I am in there. Why would I want to get him in trouble? We are not all vengeful. Sometimes looking out for someone you think is a decent guy is more important than getting your own way. I know dakka is full of arguementative tw#ts but you were too quick to pull the trigger at me dude. I am not a liar. So although it seems I might possibly have you to thank for having this policy reversed you were wrong about pretty much everything else and I don't appreciate being called a liar for whatever that means to you.
Psy
Apologies if I offended. It was hard to believe what you were claiming was true. But it does look like there was one crooked manager out there doing it afterall. I was just thinking of all the gamers getting ripped off (like you) and the bad rap gw was going to get on it, so best to get on it fast and early. I find it strange that you believed this manager and believed it was policy, yet were afraid to say what location and manager. If you thought it was legit, you would have said. So there was some doubt in your mind. Keep in mind this nice guy manager you keep refering to is ripping people off...
You said -
"First of all I want to make it clear my original post was the absolute truth. Nothing misleading about it. It may have been misconstrued, perhaps I might have worded it better but it was absolutely true... 3 days ago I went in the store and was informed that the regional manager had been in touch with the store manager and he had informed him he can't require any monetary purchase for time in store and the policy has been reversed." ... (THIS WAS NEVER POLICY TO BEGIN WITH PSY!) ... "Although I don't agree with him bringing in this policy I've known him for a while and he certainly wasn't trying to con anyone. I just think his store has hit hard times through no fault of his own cos I see how hard he works to bring people in when I am in there. Why would I want to get him in trouble?"
The fact is, right from GWs mouth, this was never policy to begin with & the manager was in fact violating GW policy. In essence stealing from GW & the gamers! Great friend of yours by the way.....
Here is an email from GWhq in UK -
"Hi John
Thanks for the email,In order to take part in specific events in store, the stores may require you to purchase particular items, however it is not company policy to charge simply to use gaming tables or paint stations.If you let us know which store in particular you are referring to, we will be happy to contact the manager, and request that they amend this policy.
Kind regards
Lydia
Games Workshop Customer Service
tel: 0044 (0) 115 91 40000
Open Monday to Friday 9.30am to 6pm"
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: The OP (or original instigator) should have said "My local GW store is so busy and crowded that they worked up a system, that for every 10 GBP you spend, you earn a voucher for 2 hours time for either a game table or painting station." That would have been a clear statement, that is GW policy based on circumstances and manager discretion, but rarely used except in really busy scenarios.... He had merely said he had to spend 10 gbp in a gw store yo use a atble for 2 hours... misleading troll
Or maybe you shouldn't have gone on a crusade stirring up inquiries with GW in a country you don't even live in because the idea of charging for tables offends your moral sensibilities.
.
I don't appreciate thieving managers. If it is policy to pay, I pay. In this case we now know some manager violated gw policy.
Psy-Titan wrote: 4. Directly to the poster above. You are very wrong. In previous posts you accused me of bullsh#ting simply because I won't name the store. I already stated in a previous post that the fact is I didn't want to land the manager in trouble cos he is a really nice guy and works hard. Although I don't agree with him bringing in this policy I've known him for a while and he certainly wasn't trying to con anyone. I just think his store has hit hard times through no fault of his own cos I see how hard he works to bring people in when I am in there. Why would I want to get him in trouble? We are not all vengeful. Sometimes looking out for someone you think is a decent guy is more important than getting your own way. I know dakka is full of arguementative tw#ts but you were too quick to pull the trigger at me dude. I am not a liar. So although it seems I might possibly have you to thank for having this policy reversed you were wrong about pretty much everything else and I don't appreciate being called a liar for whatever that means to you.
Just to clarify, the post immediately above yours is mine, and I never accused you of saying anything false and I didn't contact GW. So I think you must have been writing your reply at the same time as mine. No problem - just wanted to clear up that although you say the post right above yours, it's actually the one just above that one. Thanks.
Stories like this make me glad that my local GW is in a large shopping mall and is more than happy to invite people in for free use of tables, paints, and painting stations.
I just wanted to say again, apologies to anyone I offended.
As a parent of kids who play, I just hate to believe there are people out there that take advantage of children. Especially in a game shop where there are so many, and that a parent like me thinks they are safe. Kids wont question handing over money, or buying an item needlessly, in order to use a table to play with their friends. An adult should investigate if it sounds shady.
If this had been a true policy by GW, then fine, my kids and I would pay up, but eventually look elsewhere to play. I would not want to pay, or buy, $20 to 30 of stuff I don't need or want, to be in a store for 2 to 4 hours.
However, we now know it was not. I love that within days, GW sent a district manager out to some two dozen locations to look into this. I also wanted to find out if this were maybe a new policy GW was trying out in the UK first. Thank god it is not.
I hope you understand my intentions, and again, no offense to my fellow Dakkians!
gotta hear with our manager about it. Where's this store you talking about?
." (the S word)
Don't forget our most popular sport is a small scale socialism 
