HQ
85 Big Mek w/ Kustom Force Field
85 Big Mek w/ Kustom Force Field

Troops
180 30x Shoota Boys
180 30x Shoota Boys
180 30x Shoota Boys
180 30x Shoota Boys
180 30x Shoota Boys
180 30x Shoota Boys

Tactica
Deploy your boys as quickly as possible. Enjoy watching your opponent's face turn pale as the fear of a slow painful loss drains all of his face blood. Place objectives in as tight of a pile as possible. You want to be able to focus the attention of the horde to a single location. Try to get the table half that has the most things to hide behind - you don't want your opponent to hide and delay victory any amount. Act like you want first turn - but don't take it. Don't even think about seizing. You want to be able to do a last-turn dive to secure all possible points. When your opponent makes the decision to start first, do not hesitate to begin deploying as he puts models down. This is an important power play that let's the opposition know that their tactics do not matter in this losing game of theirs. Make sure each Mek can cover at least 3 squads, will not be picked off until at least 25 boys have died, and can not be flanked by drop-units, and has BLoS to any units with precision shots. If your opponent brought many ordinance blasts, maybe spread da boys out.
If you have completed all of the above, congratulations, you may now turn off your brain, and begin moving forward with 182 bases, and rolling an amount of dice that will likely leave your arms thoroughly swole by the end of the day.

You've literally got no way to deal with armor, and won't tau just ignore cover your units to death?

I must point out that armor has no way to deal with this list. Flyers? Ignore em. Death rays cannot deal enough hurt, not even 4 of them. Walkers and monstrous creatures will get so depressed trying to shoot the mob to death that they will eventually lock themselves into close combat. Tau shooting? Not worried. They ignore my 5+ save? I'm not too butthurt. They will eventually fall to ork shooting.

I'm sorry but an Eldar war walker spam will just kill this list. Your shootas only have an 18" range. I'm going to sit 36 inches away from you and kill a full unit each turn with my d6+1 S7 from 4 wave serpents re-rolling to hit. I don't think you've been to many highly competitive tournaments, no offence.

With that elder list, it sounds like you have very little left over for troops. Even if you do kill a unit a turn, won't I have 3 or 4 units in shooting range on turn 3? They each have 60 shots. What if I reserve everything and then just run to the majority of objectives? If I have 3 orks left in a unit, would you try and shoot them down for first blood and lose out on firepower? Do you get line breaker? How do you stand on objectives?

And can't hurt a wave serpent. There S4 vs FA 12. And those four wave serpents, each of them have a unit of 5 troops in them. You literally can only deal with Armour 10, and when you do get to somewhere you can assault me. Okay, I'll jump over you give up a turn of shooting and go to the other side of the board.

Honestly I would just outshoot you with my Guard swarm army, fielding Creed with Al'raheim leading his own platoon.

CCS - Vox
MoO
Creed

Platoon 1
Al'raheim vox
Infantry squad 1
Infantry squad 2
Conscripts 50

Platoon 2
Platoon Commander vox, melta bomb
Infantry squad 1
Infantry squad 2
Conscripts 50

Platoon 3
Platoon Commander vox, melta bomb
Infantry squad 1
Infantry squad 2
Conscripts 50

231 Models, I could field more if I wanted really. If I drop all of the extra orders cheese I have can squeeze in another 30 models and 5 meltaguns inside the blobs. Then I can give 150 models TL shots, and the remaining models receive double or even triple tap!

You would be better off with biker nobz.

I will admit it is an army that requires some skill to play against. You need to focus all of your fire into one unit each turn, which takes planning and tactics.

My 2x Fragioso with Heavy Flamers and 2x Baal Preds with Flamestorms and Heavy Flamer sponsons would send this list with its tail between its legs. Its gimmicky at best.

all someone needs to do is bring 3 dreadnoughts, and bam, half your army tied up in assault indefinitely.. dropping some boys to include PK nobs would help this

I like it, nice and simple and I bet it would win a lot of games.

for the nay sayers, are the lists you claim will beat it tailored made against orks or would you actually bring those lists to a 1250 tourny?

most tournys would be focused more on anti tau, eldar, and armor and no one really plays hordes so you can catch people unprepared for them.

oh and a question for the OP, for timed events do you ever even get to turn 5?

SirLynch - I like you.
With a 2 hour time limit (which is crazy long for 1250) I have always made at least turn 5. You get quick with moving boys, opponents are usually cool with grouping runs with movement phase moves. Just have to hustle lol.
Honestly though, most people surrender before 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vendablefall wrote:
all someone needs to do is bring 3 dreadnoughts, and bam, half your army tied up in assault indefinitely.. dropping some boys to include PK nobs would help this

That's the beauty, no klaws are necassary. I actually played 3 chaos dreads no problem. A group of boys is only what, 80 more points than a dread? It's whatever. The lock doesn't do much. The dread chews like, 4 boys a turn, tops, and they can't be shot at. Except on the last turn, the boys have an option to "Our weapons are Useless!" Their way out of the engagement to dive an objective.
They may die, but boys die every day.

Tyranids would eat that list alive.

This is hardly an Ork tailored list for Tyranids at 1250:
FHT w/TL Dev
FHT w/TL Dev

Venomthrope x2
Venomthrope x2
Zoanthrope x2

Devil Gaunts x10
Devil Gaunts x10
Devil Gaunts x10

Biovores x3
Biovores x3

Edit: Actually, that list would really only have trouble with extreamly mech heavy Eldar or IG. Take out a Biovore Brood and some Gaunts and bring in a TL-HVC Harpy and bam. Bombing runs on Orks and S9 blast for vehicles.

Let me start by asking. Are Ork units still fearless when they've got more that 10 models in them?

If so then read on.

If not then read on, and please disregard where I assumed the Ork units are fearless

Here's pretty much my standard 1250 Eldar list. Now I know it isn't the strongest list out there. However it has in no way been tailored to beat this list and there isn't a doubt in my mind I would give you a run for the money every time.

1x Farseer- Jetbike, S.spear

3x Windrider Jetbikes- 1x S.cannon

3x Windrider Jetbikes- 1x S.cannon

7x Dire Avengers / Wave Serpent- Scatter Lasers, S.cannon, H.fields

6x Dire Avengers / Wave Serpent- Scatter Lasers, S.cannon, H.fields

5x Rangers

8x Warp Spiders

3x War Walkers- 6x Scatter Lasers

1x Fire Prism

The problem I think you'll run into, and you may have not yet, is I really only need to kill 23 boys from a unit a turn (with my list this should be fairly easy) to force a leadership check. Remember fearless units can't go to ground so all you're going to be getting is a 5+ cover unless you're behind a ruin. If they break, then they can only rally on a double one being below 25%, and will most likely run off the board. Also when placing objectives at a tourney most of the time they are pre-set, so you can't really bunch them together. However if we're given the option to place the objectives, then as you bunch the obj. you've got close together I'm spreading mine out to 6 inches from opposing corners. So I don't have to deploy my rangers but I know they'll be grabbing at least one obj. by game end.

Anyway not saying I'd win for sure, but I'm pretty confident I could completely wipeout 3-4 units by game end and break the rest, and broken units aren't scoring.

All this being said I'm glad you've got a list that works for you and as long as you are having fun, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Have a blessed day.

Also fearless units can't use the "Our Weapons are Useless" rule, so your boys are stuck until they below 10 models when fighting a dreadnought.

that ork army will eat serpant spam, 182 wounds is too many to deal with, and in combat you are only armour 10 at the rear. there is just too many orks for you to evade combat forever.

having said that raider crusader spam nerfs it.

drop 1 squad and take a nob with PK in every remaining unit.

then you can deal with armour

I'm pretty convinced that this is a troll post. Any type of walker would stop this list in its tracks.

At least slip a nob with pole in the groups without the mek.

I can't see this list winning any serious event, but I can see it stopping some lists that might have otherwise had a chance to win the event.

Enjoy watching your opponent's face turn pale as the fear of a slow painful loss drains all of his face blood.

OP reminds me of those people who bring triple Riptides to low point tournaments and then act all smug as they steamroll everyone. I have no doubts that spamming 182 boyz can win tournaments, but it's an obnoxious and would not make you any friends.

That said...

I'm usually running bikers and dreadnoughts in my list, so my approach would be to use the bikers to multi-assault two blobs of boyz, then assault with the walkers. The bikers will die, but the walker will then tarpit up two blobs of boyz for the rest of the game (IIRC, they're fearless if they're in a big blob, and so cannot elect to use "our weapons are useless"?). The two walkers and the bike squad (combat squad'd) run about 500 pts of my 1250 list, so I have more than half my army to deal with the other two squad and the big meks. Which, admittedly, would still be difficult - in a TAC tournament list, I would be running a couple tactical squads, more bikes, and anti-tank stuff, which isn't the most efficient at chewing through so many bodies. It's a scoring game, so all I really have to do is hold 1 more objective than you do at the end of the game (even if you have 100+ models on the board yet).

I like your list and think its dead hard, I think many of the panzee players are too used to their wave serpents gutting out small squads of elite troops to realize how much fire has to be poured into that many boyz to kill it, especially when the wave serpents lose half their shooting every other turn due to the serpent shield rules.

I would play a very very similar but different list:

HQ
Big Mek with KFF
Weirdboy warphead

Elites

NONE

Troops

30 grots, 3 Runtherders
30 grots, 3 Runtherders
29 Shoota Boyz, & Nob with Big Choppa
29 Shoota Boyz, & Nob with Big Choppa
29 Shoota Boyz, & Nob with Big Choppa
29 Shoota Boyz, & Nob with Big Choppa

Fast Attack

None

Heavy

3 x Big gunz, kannonz, 2 grot krew each [separate into 3 units or not, whatevers]

This list has a a Weirdboy

Onwards- 191 models
Cost - 1250 points

KFF mek goes in a boyz blob which will be flanked by two other boys blobs. Fourth boys blob has weirdboy and full grot mob infront of it to screen it, other grot mob goes wherever, don't care.

Kannons aim down best fire alley and shoot at anything that is in it. Maybe it hits a vehicle and opens it up, honestly doesn't really matter, they are more there to make a loud noise and look threatening so your boys will get ignored a little bit. each boyz mob has a nob with a big choppa, so they can threaten light/medium armor if they have to.

Weirdboy is there for general whateverness, he could do some shooty, might count as having a power weapon in CC, gives you chances at extra WAAAGHs, may let you teleport a mob of 30 boyz somewhere, may give the mob +1 attack when charging, blows his own head up in a bright ball of green Ork Power. Who knows? But it will be great because hey its orks.


THE BEST THING about your list is your thinking of the objectives, instead of just simply thinking of killing. I also like your commentary about acting like you want the first turn, but then not taking it nor seizing. Very Mork like.

 Kwosge wrote:
Tyranids would eat that list alive.

This is hardly an Ork tailored list for Tyranids at 1250:
FHT w/TL Dev
FHT w/TL Dev

Venomthrope x2
Venomthrope x2
Zoanthrope x2

Devil Gaunts x10
Devil Gaunts x10
Devil Gaunts x10

Biovores x3
Biovores x3

Edit: Actually, that list would really only have trouble with extreamly mech heavy Eldar or IG. Take out a Biovore Brood and some Gaunts and bring in a TL-HVC Harpy and bam. Bombing runs on Orks and S9 blast for vehicles.

What you want is a Miasma Cannon somewhere and a harpy with a STC > HVC in a list like this.

blaktoof wrote:
I like your list and think its dead hard, I think many of the panzee players are too used to their wave serpents gutting out small squads of elite troops to realize how much fire has to be poured into that many boyz to kill it, especially when the wave serpents lose half their shooting every other turn due to the serpent shield rules.

Wat? The Wave Serpents can shoot their shields off every turn and most certainly will against a list that can touch their armor. 3 Wave Serpents is easily attainable and probably quite common in 1250. 1 Serpent puts out an average of 4 S6 AP5 and 4-5 S7 AP- ignores cover every turn and It's all twin linked. So basically 3 Serpents neuter a squad of boys a turn. By turn 3 (the earliest you'll be reaching him) there are enough dead boys that he's got room to jump over you with his fast skimmers.
That's not even counting the squads of warp spiders/war walkers/guardians you're likely to see. I thnink it's been a while since you played Eldar.

Just about every nid's list ever has 2 Flyrants that put out 12 TL S6 shots as well, what do you do about them? Not to mention Carnifexes who don't care about your boys, Hive Crones, and bodies to match.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Wat? The Wave Serpents can shoot their shields off every turn and most certainly will against a list that can touch their armor. 3 Wave Serpents is easily attainable and probably quite common in 1250. 1 Serpent puts out an average of 4 S6 AP5 and 4-5 S7 AP- ignores cover every turn and It's all twin linked. So basically 3 Serpents neuter a squad of boys a turn. By turn 3 (the earliest you'll be reaching him) there are enough dead boys that he's got room to jump over you with his fast skimmers.

I mathed it out a bit, each Wave Serpent (with scatter laser, shuriken cannon, serpent shield) will kill ~7 boyz per turn. They're only 120 points with this loadout, so it's not unreasonable to have 3 in a list, for at total of ~21 boyz per turn shot to gak (105 models killed over the course of 5 turns). And that's less than a third of a 1250 point eldar army.

And don't forget about fire prisms. Large blast (fired first so there's enough models around) S5 AP3 will kill a bunch. Probably hit. 5-6 wound 4 and 4 dead (on average). Big mek, small blast s7 AP2. Or s9 AP1 lance, Idk toughness on a big mek so Idk if that will be instant death or not.

Exactly: Throw in some guided war walkers (24 S6 shots a turn) and boyz are falling by the dozens. Good luck ever getting to their lines while you're pulling all your casualties from the front.

Kind of my point with the above posted list. Guided War Walkers will kill an average 14 Orks a turn with a 5+ cover. (This is just average rolling) Previously math hammered out by DanielBeaver each Wave Serpent will kill 7 Orks. So between just the War Walkers and the two Wave Serpents my list will kill an average of 28 Orks a turn. Throw in the Fire Prism, the Warp Spiders and that averages out to an additional 12 Orks(5 from the FP and 7 from the WS). For a grand total of 40 Orks a turn. Using average dice on both sides you've lost half your army by mid-game and have been tabled by the bottom of turn five, with 18 unsaved wounds of overkill. Not to mention as I stated earlier 7 models is less than 25% so if you fail a moral check you'll probably keep running.

I like hoard lists, always have, but the OP's list is by no means an unbeatable tournament list. I can see where, to an inexperienced player, the sight of all those boys could be daunting. However to anyone who has played against dug in IG this list is easy to overcome without tailoring a list just to kill it.

To the OP:

I hope your dice continue to show you favor and your "Unbeaten" record keeps going. Cause it's always fun to watch Orks win.

Hey hey.to the OP: keep on keeping on man, a buddy of man posted a similar 2000 pt version, and the wise counsel of this site has him second guessing. I'm hoping to get a game in with him soon to test it out.

I can't fault the maths of the post above, but I did you factor in losses from the Eldar? I mean the orks are not going to sit idle for 5 turns...

At some point a largish number of boys will be in range, firng many innacurate shots, and you will lose a few models.

To say otherwise would beggar belief.

- motherbrain

The point for the Wave Serpent Spam I run (because I have no infantry deployed on the table) I can't actually take any losses until he gets into combat, because S4 is not enough to hurt my armour.

It looks like a fun army at least. Against many codices that amount of boys is simply too mcuh to handle.

But still, I can't understand how is that "undefeated" in a world of Taudar where they can shoot your ass out from the back and when you actually get there, they'll just run away.

That and the fact that basically any army focusing on vehicles will laugh you off the table.

motherbrain wrote:
Hey hey.to the OP: keep on keeping on man, a buddy of man posted a similar 2000 pt version, and the wise counsel of this site has him second guessing. I'm hoping to get a game in with him soon to test it out.

I can't fault the maths of the post above, but I did you factor in losses from the Eldar? I mean the orks are not going to sit idle for 5 turns...

At some point a largish number of boys will be in range, firng many innacurate shots, and you will lose a few models.

To say otherwise would beggar belief.

- motherbrain

Just to clarify, I never assumed that the Orks would sit idle for 5 turns. However the Ork shootas are an 18" range, assault 2, strength 4 gun. This gives the Orks a maximum effective range of 24" (6" move and 18" shooting). In every deployment setup the "No-Mans Land" is a 24" gap or 12" from the centerline in both players direction. So we know for a fact that the armies are at least 24" apart at the beginning of the game. All I've got to do is deploy 1" behind my deployment zone line and the Orks are out of range. This means that at minimum, I'll have two rounds of shooting where all I've got to do is back up and pull the trigger. Because almost every gun in my list has a range double that of a shoota, and the shootas are incapable of even hurting the front/side armor of a Wave Serpent/Fire Prism and can only glance a War Walker, all I've really got to do is work my shooting from one end of the Ork line to the other keeping an adequate kill-zone(24") between my units and the OP's. As an example: If thirty Orks fills up one square foot of table space. Then every turn, assuming thirty unsaved wounds (which is only 75% of capacity on average) and I'm working from one end of the Ork lines to the other, I've cleared an additional two square feet of table for my own units to redeploy into. This sort of tactic, in most cases, because we haven't even discussed terrain, will allow me to avoid most any shooting by my opponent give me an additional 2-3 turns to fire at full effect while remaining out of range. This still accounts for 150+ dead Orks by game end with few to no casualties to my army.

As previously stated I hope the OP continues on his lucky streak. There are several armies out there, including a lot of the MSU that you normally see in smaller games, that won't be able to laydown enough firepower to slow the green tide and will be completely overwhelmed. I know a lot of people will post tailored lists and say "I could beat your list with this one" and I find that extremely annoying. So posted my typical 1250 list and offered my opinion and a bit of warning about what kind of list to watch out for across the table. I really didn't think we'd have to math hammer/ range hammer out the results of a typical game, but it's of no matter. In my initial post you'll notice I never claimed I would win for sure (the dice gods are fickle), but rather I said I'd give the OP a good game in any case. Hope this helps to clarify my position and reasoning behind my posts. Have a blessed day and good luck at the gaming tables.

motherbrain wrote:

I can't fault the maths of the post above, but I did you factor in losses from the Eldar? I mean the orks are not going to sit idle for 5 turns...

At some point a largish number of boys will be in range, firng many innacurate shots, and you will lose a few models.

To say otherwise would beggar belief.

The strategy the OP described was basically to just hide behind LOS blocking terrain on his table side and wait for a last-turn breakout towards the objectives. So... no, the Eldar aren't going to be taking many losses.

Some of the eldar stuff posted in here is off, a WS with such load out is not 120 points, its 130+ squad inside so 195 minimum.

Tables are not infinitely big in all directions and without terrain, so the orks will get cover saves, will have LOS blocked to them sometimes, will be out of range [shuriken cannons are 24" range and scatter laser 36] and if they approach from more than one angle, since theres a lot of them its not hard, you will back to the table edge, and turn 3-4 be assaulted.

Warwalkers are nasty try, but they are slower than wave serpents, have 36" range, so turn 2-3 they are getting shot. 30 boys firing on a squad of warwalkers will glance 3-4 hps a turn on average, so 1-2 dead warwalkers from 1 unit firing.

The "how many orks will die" math is slightly off. Considering only orks 6+ save [which they get versus serpent shields..] and cover from KFF [which they get versus scatter lasers and shuriken cannon] on average 3 wave serpents will kill 92.5 boys in 5 turns of shooting if ALL of the guns are in range, and the boys are always completely in LOS and never get a better cover save than KFF grants. Those 3 serpents+ minimum non upgraded squads inside without hqs attached represent 45% of the eldar army.

Since we are assuming the eldar stuff is firing unmolested lets look at some ork stuff below are 1 30 man shoota boy squads moving 6" and firing 18"

Average round of shooting from 30 boys versus dire avengers iso 60 shots, 20 hits, 13.3 wounds, with 4+ armor save is 6.8 dead dire avengers.

Average round of shooting versus warp spiders is 4.44 dead warp spiders.

Average round of shooting from orks against warwalkers [or rear wave serpent armor] is 60 shots 20 hits, 3.3 glances

But yes on a clear table with no terrain and your always in range of the orks and they never fire at anything you have, you will gun them down very very well.

in regards to the list I posted 3 kannons/weirdboy:

3 Kannons will do .75 hps a turn to a wave serpent with 36" range that has its shields up.
3 Kannons will do 1.26hp a turn to warwalkers considering only glancing hits.

Weirdboy warphead has a 30% chance to teleport with 1 unit of boys by deepstriking, at 1250 points there's not a lot of units to get in the way and cause mishaps, especially since you have ~200 points minimum of your eldar army sitting inside their transports.

30 boys teleporting within 18" of a wave serpent rear armor = 60 shots, 20 hits, 3.3 glances = dead wave serpent in 1 turn. Also there is no a boys mob behind you prolly where your other things like warwalkers wave serpents are.

Of course weirdboy also has a 30% chance to fire a 36" str 10 ap2 melta shot. if your in shuriken cannon range, the weirdboy will be in melta range. That shot auto hits, so if you fired your shields welcome to being also penned at ap2.

On the offchance a boys mob catches a wave serpent in assault. Which will happen, 10 boys is 30 attacks on the charge. Thats 20 hits, thats 3.3 glances... 30 boys is 9.9 glances average, just saying.

if one of the mobs I listed catches a WS thats 29 boys+nob with big choppa. Thats 87 boys attacks and 4 nob attacks, or 57 str 4 hits and 3 str 7 hits. Thats a dead waveserpent, maybe 2 if they were close together and theres a multi charge.. just saying

Because screw tactics, just throw 180 boyz at them for the auto-win. Sounds like a great game.

Hey hey. Fair enough points, bigbaboonass, hope my post didn't come off too stern.

And screw tactics dakkamite? Let's not begrudge a player for being interested in the green wave, while triptide, screamerstar, serpentspam lists are generally high fived, and the skies are too often blackened by drakes and croissants. These are all, I feel, no less point and click. This is 40k, land of cheese and neckbeards.

On topic: I'll agree that you will need some added punch, whether it come in the form of big shootas, or nobs with PKs or big choppas to increase flexibility. I would be 100 behind blaktoof's suggestions, but just from an army theme coherency stance, don't know about those big gunz..

Would love to hear how any recent games with this list have gone

- motherbrain

I very much like the list. There's nothing more fun than watching dozens of models get removed each turn only to be replaced by dozens more. I'd love playing against such a list, it'd be a blast.

However, a competitive Eldar list WILL make you sweat. People don't appreciate how truly obnoxious Eldar shooting is when they're not shooting at MEQ. If a list can kill 60 marines, it can kill 120 boys. My 1250 Eldar list can and will kill 60 marines over 5 turns.

And god forbid you're up against Farsight Crisis spam. Point is, it's not unbeatable, it's a typical rock-paper-scissors deal. People will either cry in despair when they see what they're facing, or they'll make you cry(if you're the crying sort).

I like the look of it. But just wondering if you have ever come up against a blood taloned death co dread or furioso with that list? I imagine that would be a terror unit for you... not that you would ever see such a model in a tournament setting...

Lol If OP gets the lead, he could move slower to conceal his win lol.

Manticores for pieplate spam, chimeras for LOTS of tank shocking lol.

Would suck to play a purifier list with this one.
You could wipe out your own army in 2 turns if your not careful.

Trazyn could also be fun to use against this army.
He could be removing around 1/3 of a unit a turn on his own.

>motherbrain

No offense taken. As I said I love to see Orks win it's always fun and usually funny.

>Blaktoof

You seem a little defensive about some of my posts, and my intent wasn't to offend anyone, just to share some insight. You seem insistent on changing the OP's list to some variant of your own making. However nice this is, it is in no way what I was addressing. But to address some of your concerns (not your list) I'll continue. I completely understand that there will be terrain involved on the battlefields, even stated as much, saying that all of the math hammering/range hammering would be subject to other factors including fickle dice. As far as the deployment goes "Dawn of War" is the only setup that adds any weight to the argument of coming at me at all angles. "Hammer and Anvil" and "Vanguard Strike" only give me even more room to move back and shoot. We'll give Orks the benefit of the doubt and say that it is "Dawn of War" deployment. If I go first I deploy via refused flank. If the Orks spread out across the table to try and flank me on turn 3-4. Then half their army is completely ineffectual for the entire game due to them having to move more than half the length of the board and all I've got to do is focus on the immediate threat then move down the line. If they bunch up on the side that I've deployed on then my entire army takes a turn and relocates to the other side of the battlefield. This is relatively easy to accomplish with the Eldar's speed and proper deployment. I've accomplished this on more than one occasion so I know. If the Orks go first. I set up in a refused flank and accomplish the same result as stated earlier. I do like how you've assumed 30 Orks would get into range to fire unmolested by turn two. Considering that casualties are taken from the front of the units, it's completely reasonable to assume I've added an extra 8" to the distance the Orks have to move to be in range to shoot in the first place. It's also interesting how you've assumed my Dire Avengers would get out of the Wave Serpents for more than clean up work. The only reason I've been assuming the Eldar army unhurt is due to the fact that they out range the Orks. So it is reasonable to assume, through proper deployment, that they will be unhurt for at least 2-3 turns. Your assumption of rear shots on Wave Serpents/Fire Prisms is a little far fetched considering you have no way of getting behind them. The War Walkers will stay out of range for the most part so it's very unlikely you'd be able to bring the full weight of 30 Orks to shoot at them all at once so the numbers are off a bit, but assuming you did they have a 5++ so one of those glances would save anyway. The Warp Spiders are dependent on an average second jump and I'd never commit them to taking on a full unit of Orks by themselves, I mainly use them for clean up. However if I did as you stated they'd still be around and above 25%. To your credit your list is more viable than the OP's, but wasn't being discussed in any of my posts. Have a blessed day and good luck at the tables.

I can see this winning, but only just. and only in objective based scenarios. if you roll purge the alien the your screwed

Another issue would be necron flyer spam.

165 points gets you a basic troop unit in a flyer.
Throw in stormlord for a laugh and things get pretty messy.

So:

Stormlord - 225

5 warriors with nightscythe - 165
5 warriors with nightscythe - 165
5 warriors with nightscythe - 165

Annihilation barge - 90
Doomsday ark - 175
Doomsday ark - 175

1,250 on the nose.

All Ground based vehicles are AV13, rest are flyers.
Decent amount of shooting and great mobility.
Plus lightning from stormlord.

That army is ok for the lols. It'd just die horribly against my list though. It'll die to most armies with a bit of boom in their list. Like 2 Vindicators and a orbital bombardment will hurt those boys.

Venom spam DE could be a really painful match aswell.
Pretty much just sit back and shred the entire army in 2-3 turns at the most.

I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

I almost won a 1000 point grunts only tourney with 90 boys, 9 kannons and a SAG.

Only lost to a white scars bike list with thunderfire cannon.

One of the reasons I lost was I didn't utilize my two deffcoptas well. Should have turbo boosted them to the thunderfire cannon and tied it up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fun list, I'd try this and see how it works

Big Mek - SAG
120 Shoota Boyz
Big mek's deff dred
3 deff coptas 1 with buzz saw each a separate unit
3 squads of 3 big kannons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Araenion wrote:
I very much like the list. There's nothing more fun than watching dozens of models get removed each turn only to be replaced by dozens more. I'd love playing against such a list, it'd be a blast.

However, a competitive Eldar list WILL make you sweat. People don't appreciate how truly obnoxious Eldar shooting is when they're not shooting at MEQ. If a list can kill 60 marines, it can kill 120 boys. My 1250 Eldar list can and will kill 60 marines over 5 turns.

And god forbid you're up against Farsight Crisis spam. Point is, it's not unbeatable, it's a typical rock-paper-scissors deal. People will either cry in despair when they see what they're facing, or they'll make you cry(if you're the crying sort).

I wish I could put 60 marines on a table for 1250. Seriously what else do I have left after I put 6 ten man TAC squads?

you realize anyone that has artilery can easily deal with this army. As an ork player i have fielded 150 orks in a 1k tourny and got destroyed. Lets not forget about pyshic abilities as well

 mik339 wrote:
I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

Lel "Keep your army completely in reserve".

A.) This is against the rules. You may keep up to half of your force in reserve, not counting units that MUST start in reserves.
B.) Sure, reserve half of you army so they can focus on a smaller portion of your army first, as well as forcing your remaining boyz to slog on from your table edge. Tactical brilliance.
C.) Do you even 40K?
D.) You're getting closer to something with the weirdboyz, but even in the event that you do roll whatever it is to teleport a squad, do you have any idea how likely a mishap is with a 30 man unit?

Here's a list that would roflstomp all 180 of those boyz that you've won so many tourneys with:

Farseer, Jetbike
Warlock

5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
10 Guardians w/ BL platform
10 Guardians w/ BL platform

2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser
2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser

This is a basic TAC Eldar list that would mop the floor with 180 boys.
/thread

warwalkers dont get TL anything just a FYI

Tesla.

hmmm....3 vindicators? I feel that 3 vindicators and 3 heldrakes would be a good csm list against this, especially with some allied daemons for Tzeentch flamers and a herald for scriers gaze to get those drakes on the board asap

I mean, this is a spammy list. If your opponent has the counter to it, you're screwed, if he doesn't you may be able to beat him just by killing what he does have to deal with you and then sitting out the rest. This holds true for all spammy lists.

 mik339 wrote:
I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

I don't think I'll ever get to make it to Fairbanks, but the invite is appreciated. I'll return the invite to you with "If you ever make it to Memphis, Tn. give me a call, we'll get this match-up going".

On a side note as astro_nomicon pointed out you've got to deploy half your forces on the table rounding down. Independent characters count toward this so at least four of your units will need to be on the board to start. Also don't forget that a unit can only ever capture one objective at a time, no matter how many they can reach. Astro_nomicon is incorrect about the War Walkers by the way, their Scatter Lasers are not twin-linked, however they can be "Guided" by a Farseer. Anyway I hope to one day see this match-up on the table. Have a blessed day and may the dice be in your favor (Unless you're playing me ).

Its always interesting to see people posting "Undefeated" Lists. They are almost always spam. I for one like bacon, some tasty pork in my mouth, but spam just tastes bad.

That being said, I still think your fethed when you come against broadside spam, walker spam, wave serpent spam, or some Av 14. While this list may be amazing in your local meta, and is good at objectives its not unbeatable by any means, even with a non tailored list.

My venom spam list with 4 splinter cannons per venom between guys inside and venoms. 7 venoms with 25 shots per venom. This will make quick work of these... Night sheilds make your shoota boys 12 inch range. Lulz

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 mik339 wrote:
I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

Lel "Keep your army completely in reserve".

A.) This is against the rules. You may keep up to half of your force in reserve, not counting units that MUST start in reserves.
B.) Sure, reserve half of you army so they can focus on a smaller portion of your army first, as well as forcing your remaining boyz to slog on from your table edge. Tactical brilliance.
C.) Do you even 40K?
D.) You're getting closer to something with the weirdboyz, but even in the event that you do roll whatever it is to teleport a squad, do you have any idea how likely a mishap is with a 30 man unit?

Here's a list that would roflstomp all 180 of those boyz that you've won so many tourneys with:

Farseer, Jetbike
Warlock

5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
10 Guardians w/ BL platform
10 Guardians w/ BL platform

2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser
2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser

This is a basic TAC Eldar list that would mop the floor with 180 boys.
/thread

Wow, that was rude and arrogant.

Basic TAC list? Right. That statement just seethes of ignorance. You took the most highly competitive units in the Codex and mashed them together favourably in a way that tailors to beating the Ork list here. I very much doubt most players would take Wave Serpent squads and SL War Walkers, and that list is weak. Sure, it mullers infantry, but you've got a grand total of two weapons that can harm AV14, and hardly reliably if they're competent. That list would struggle to kill Riptides, I'd expect a Tau player to lose 1.5 a turn if you fired literally everything, which probably won't happen because you'll lose something before that happens, and you'd have to split your fire.

Seriously, my Mech/2LR/2Vendetta IG would probably present a considerable difficulty to that list, this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

I maybe mistaken but I thought orks gained +1 strength on a charge meaning they have S4 and would need 6s to glance rear armor on a WS with 20-30 orks this shouldn't be a problem glancing a WS to death so no need for a PC nob.

This list is not unbeatable but anyone pushing tailored lists is missing the point. This list played correctly would catch most of the current competitive tourney lists off guard because most will be built to stop Tau/ Eldar.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Seriously, my Mech/2LR/2Vendetta IG would probably present a considerable difficulty to that list, this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

You're quite arrogant yourself, or at least you come off like it. Here's my 1250 list:

Farseer: Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

9 WRJ: 3 Shuriken Cannons

3 WRJ

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

6 Swooping Hawks: Exarch

Crimson Hunter

3 War Walkers: 6x Scatterlasers


I'd take this list against anything and anyone at this point level. And it kills 30 Orks per turn on average dice and around 40 per turn with Swooping Hawks and Crimson Hunter on the board.

People defending this list to a fault come off just as rude as those dissing it unreasonably. It's a good list, but anyone with tools to handle it will have absolutely no trouble defeating it, Just like any old monobuild list.

To give the OP credit, he actually never said the list is unbeatable, he said it's undefeated and tournament-winning, which I can believe.

You dont need a tailored list to beat this, there are alot of chaos lists out there that can steam roll this list. Case and point Demon prince w/ black mace and the nurgle pyhic power that reduces toughness and strenght. Easily can wipe a squad a turn in assault. Also any army with barrage wepon can snipe out the Big mekk yeah you can look out sir but they way you compact your army im going to hit 6 guys * how ever many barrage weapons i have.

As for weirdboys gate of infinity i have lost Old Zog once before because i scattered bad.

 Araenion wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Seriously, my Mech/2LR/2Vendetta IG would probably present a considerable difficulty to that list, this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

You're quite arrogant yourself, or at least you come off like it. Here's my 1250 list:

Farseer: Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear

9 WRJ: 3 Shuriken Cannons

3 WRJ

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

5 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent: Holofields, Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon

6 Swooping Hawks: Exarch

Crimson Hunter

3 War Walkers: 6x Scatterlasers


I'd take this list against anything and anyone at this point level. And it kills 30 Orks per turn on average dice and around 40 per turn with Swooping Hawks and Crimson Hunter on the board.

People defending this list to a fault come off just as rude as those dissing it unreasonably. It's a good list, but anyone with tools to handle it will have absolutely no trouble defeating it, Just like any old monobuild list.

To give the OP credit, he actually never said the list is unbeatable, he said it's undefeated and tournament-winning, which I can believe.

You would really take that Eldar list against ANYTHING and EVERYONE? I like watching people make broad sweeping statements because I guarantee you that if you knew your opponent was bringing AV13-14 spam you wouldn't bring that list. You have the Crimson Hunter (Bright Lances I assume?) Which comes on turn two and at most gets what? 3 shots? So at your VERY VERY best possible game, you get 15 bright lance shots of which, 5 miss, and like 6 of the remaining 10 fail to do anything? That's one dead Land Raider or Leman Russ. Maybe. The only other thing that can hurt AV 13 is the Serpent shield which at it's VERY best will get 42 (or 84 for two) shots in a game of which, most of them will do nothing considering you need a 6 to glance or you won't be able to hurt them at all if they brought an AV14 vehicle.

And you may complain "WELL THAT WON'T EVER HAPPEN CUZ DUH METUH" let me explain to you that when you play a 4th or 5th edition codex your only viable tactic is to say "feth the meta" and bring 3 Land Raiders at 1250 pts or something crazy like that. Blood angels can do this easily and each of them will have a scoring unit inside (much like your Dire Avengers squads) and Orks can do this with Battlewagons if they're careful and Imperial Guard can bring Leman Russes and Space Wolves will be hard pressed to perform such a feat but they could do it as well though they're more likely to just shove drop pods and wolf cavalry down your throat.

We can play Rock papers scissors hammer all night. My point is: don't say "well this is the list I ALWAYS bring and it would wipe the table with your list!" Because I may very well run Trilando at 1250 and I could say "well this is my list I ALWAYS run and I could wipe the table with your list!" And on and on and on and you realize how stupid this gets and how stupid it sounds? If not you should probably rethink your ideas of positive human interaction because that kind of conversation doesn't fall into that category.

There are a lot of different lists, and a lot of different armies, and with allies the equation is more complicated.

Anyone can post any list, and anyone can build a list to try and counter it.

In essence this list is a counter list, its a counter to lists like eldar/tau and armies that are tailoring to beat eldar/tau lists, making it an "anti-meta" list for many areas metas.

Can you build an army to beat it? Sure.

If you look at many armies played in tournmanets which are "tac" but focus on anti tau anti eldar, this list would be a nightmare for most of those lists to face. Simply because the tools you take to stop "elite" expensive non horde armies are not the tools you use to stop a horde army usually.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 mik339 wrote:
I would love to play against all of these armies. The Gaurd one sounds particularly ridiculous! I have already fought Necron Flyer spam, but with 4 Croissants, 2 with death beams, and (iirc) all 4 with that chain-lightning business. That game ended in my favor, by far.
BigBaboonAss seems quite confident that his Eldar list could take on my boys, which is something I would love to see. While it depends on table halves, terrain, how/when BigBaboonAss deploys, I would likely keep my army completely in reserve, and run on behind cover, trying to force focus fire shots, all while slowly and carefully slogging forward, attempting to jam objectives on turn 5, making a sea of dudes to prevent contestation. I would likely not even fire a single shot. It would be interesting for sure. BigBaboonAss, if you are ever in Fairbanks, Alaska I would host this tournament.
I also like the comment on Warpheads. I've been toying around with this idea myself. In my mind if you drop a single Mek, 1-2 (at least) squads of boys will be unable to effectively get in the KFF, and the unprotected ones would likely be picked off first, so I figure if I was to replace any meks, why not both? 2 Warpheads would be a really fun way to run it. I may toy with the list and drop some boys for rokkits/big shootas, but as it stands right now I enjoy just the pure fatness of the army.

Lel "Keep your army completely in reserve".

A.) This is against the rules. You may keep up to half of your force in reserve, not counting units that MUST start in reserves.
B.) Sure, reserve half of you army so they can focus on a smaller portion of your army first, as well as forcing your remaining boyz to slog on from your table edge. Tactical brilliance.
C.) Do you even 40K?
D.) You're getting closer to something with the weirdboyz, but even in the event that you do roll whatever it is to teleport a squad, do you have any idea how likely a mishap is with a 30 man unit?

Here's a list that would roflstomp all 180 of those boyz that you've won so many tourneys with:

Farseer, Jetbike
Warlock

5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
Wave Serpent- holofields, Tl scatter laser
10 Guardians w/ BL platform
10 Guardians w/ BL platform

2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser
2 Warwalkers w/ TL scatter laser

This is a basic TAC Eldar list that would mop the floor with 180 boys.
/thread

Wow, that was rude and arrogant.

Basic TAC list? Right. That statement just seethes of ignorance. You took the most highly competitive units in the Codex and mashed them together favourably in a way that tailors to beating the Ork list here. I very much doubt most players would take Wave Serpent squads and SL War Walkers, and that list is weak. Sure, it mullers infantry, but you've got a grand total of two weapons that can harm AV14, and hardly reliably if they're competent. That list would struggle to kill Riptides, I'd expect a Tau player to lose 1.5 a turn if you fired literally everything, which probably won't happen because you'll lose something before that happens, and you'd have to split your fire.

Seriously, my Mech/2LR/2Vendetta IG would probably present a considerable difficulty to that list, this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

Said nothing about it the best TAC list. That's why i said basic TAC list. I just threw this list together. If i was to tailor, there'd be no holofields, no guardians, and guess what? more serpents. I don't even play eldar, I do however know their capabilities from being on the receiving end many, many times. Well enough in fact, to invalidate OPs claim. That's all I was saying.

Very few unbeatable lists stand the test of "if I tell you my list and let you tailor against it...", and the ones that do (fivetides etc) are examples of broken, gakky rules design, not author brilliance.

And totally agree with Omega, dick post is a dick post.

 bocatt wrote:
You would really take that Eldar list against ANYTHING and EVERYONE?

Would, have and will. It's my TAC list at 1250 points. I used to run a Wraithknight, but it's a lot of points and people love horde armies at this point level, so better to spend those 80 points elsewhere.

I like watching people make broad sweeping statements because I guarantee you that if you knew your opponent was bringing AV13-14 spam you wouldn't bring that list. You have the Crimson Hunter (Bright Lances I assume?) Which comes on turn two and at most gets what? 3 shots? So at your VERY VERY best possible game, you get 15 bright lance shots of which, 5 miss, and like 6 of the remaining 10 fail to do anything? That's one dead Land Raider or Leman Russ. Maybe. The only other thing that can hurt AV 13 is the Serpent shield which at it's VERY best will get 42 (or 84 for two) shots in a game of which, most of them will do nothing considering you need a 6 to glance or you won't be able to hurt them at all if they brought an AV14 vehicle.

And you may complain "WELL THAT WON'T EVER HAPPEN CUZ DUH METUH" let me explain to you that when you play a 4th or 5th edition codex your only viable tactic is to say "feth the meta" and bring 3 Land Raiders at 1250 pts or something crazy like that. Blood angels can do this easily and each of them will have a scoring unit inside (much like your Dire Avengers squads) and Orks can do this with Battlewagons if they're careful and Imperial Guard can bring Leman Russes and Space Wolves will be hard pressed to perform such a feat but they could do it as well though they're more likely to just shove drop pods and wolf cavalry down your throat.

You are forgetting Swooping Hawks and their Haywire grenades and the odd BS5 Singing Spear. I have enough heavy AT to stop 1 or 2 LRs. If there is a third, I can avoid it. On the other hand, LRs are offensively very weak. What actually concerns me more are Necron AV13 Annihilation Barges, that actually kill stuff, not Blood Angels' LR spam. Every list has a weak spot and at the end of the day, 3 LR lists are far less common than infantry or horde lists at any point level(maybe your meta differs here, ymmv).

Battlewagons and Leman Russes are really not an issue, because they're side AV12, which is a big deal when you're mobile. Space Wolf drop pod list sure is tough, as is WS biker spam, but I think there's enough tools in my list to handle it, in fact, I know there is, because I've faced them with varied results.

We can play Rock papers scissors hammer all night. My point is: don't say "well this is the list I ALWAYS bring and it would wipe the table with your list!" Because I may very well run Trilando at 1250 and I could say "well this is my list I ALWAYS run and I could wipe the table with your list!" And on and on and on and you realize how stupid this gets and how stupid it sounds? If not you should probably rethink your ideas of positive human interaction because that kind of conversation doesn't fall into that category.

This is what I'm talking about when I said people are strangely defensive when it comes to a list like this. It's not some kind of genius breakthrough that will kill off competitive Eldar/Tau lists everywhere. It's a monobuild horde army seen before a dozen times, especially in 5th, that will give a lot of armies a hard time, but it will not win, barring some very lucky dice, against a balanced Eldar or Tau list played by a competent general. There is a very good reason why those two armies are so popular right now and there's no point looking for a solution that just isn't there and covering your ears and going "nanananananana" whenever somebody points out the ugly truth. I for one can't wait for the new Ork dex and hope it is a good one, because they're my favourite army to play against.

I also made no "broad sweeping statements" about always winning and I have no idea where you read that in my short post, because I sure as hell can't see it. What I did was post a list that I use regularly, that'd cause problems to the OP's list. Which, I noticed, you never tried to argue. I also objectively stated in my earlier post and in the one you quoted, that the list is by no means unbeatable and that it will fight an uphill battle against any list that is built to mow down infantry. Eldar and Tau are the big winners here, because they're flexible enough to have enough tools to deal with everything else, in addition to having an overwhelming anti-infantry at their disposal. That doesn't mean every Eldar and Tau list will auto-win, that's not what I'm saying at all. Things like luck, skill, mission, terrain and deployment are a huge factor in every game, as well as the unfamiliarity with the OP's list may cause even a skilled general to make crucial mistakes, but the OP's list is not the answer for Eldar and Tau "problem".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:
There are a lot of different lists, and a lot of different armies, and with allies the equation is more complicated.

Anyone can post any list, and anyone can build a list to try and counter it.

In essence this list is a counter list, its a counter to lists like eldar/tau and armies that are tailoring to beat eldar/tau lists, making it an "anti-meta" list for many areas metas.

Can you build an army to beat it? Sure.

If you look at many armies played in tournmanets which are "tac" but focus on anti tau anti eldar, this list would be a nightmare for most of those lists to face. Simply because the tools you take to stop "elite" expensive non horde armies are not the tools you use to stop a horde army usually.

Also, this.

But only because typical Eldar and Tau lists are just as spammy as the OP. People have a tendency to forget(Eldar/Tau players themselves most of all) that there's more to those two codexes than Wave Serpents and Riptides.

 Araenion wrote:

 bocatt wrote:
You would really take that Eldar list against ANYTHING and EVERYONE?

Would, have and will. It's my TAC list at 1250 points. I used to run a Wraithknight, but it's a lot of points and people love horde armies at this point level, so better to spend those 80 points elsewhere.

Snip

This is what I'm talking about when I said people are strangely defensive when it comes to list like this. It's not some kind of genius breakthrough that will kill off competitive Eldar and Tau lists. It's a monobuild horde army seen before a dozen times, especially in 5th, that will give a lot of armies a hard time, but it will not win, barring some very lucky dice, against a competitive Eldar or Tau list played by a competent general. There is a very good reason why those two armies are so popular right now and there's no point looking for a solution that just isn't there and covering your eyes and going "nanananananana" whenever somebody points out the ugly truth. I for one can't wait for the new Ork dex and hope it is a good one, because they're my favourite army to play against.

I also made no "broad sweeping statements" about always winning and I have no idea where you read that in my short post, because I sure as hell can't see it. What I did was post a list that I use regularly, that'd cause problems to the OP's list. Which, I noticed, you never tried to argue. I also objectively stated in my earlier post and in the one you quoted, that the list is by no means unbeatable and that it will fight an uphill battle against any list that is built to mow down infantry. Eldar and Tau are the big winners here, because they're flexible enough to have enough tools to deal with everything else, in addition to having an overwhelming anti-infantry at their disposal. That doesn't mean every Eldar and Tau list will auto-win, that's not what I'm saying at all. Things like luck, skill, mission, terrain and deployment are a huge factor in every game, as well as the unfamiliarity with the OP's list may cause even a skilled general to make crucial mistakes, but the OP's list is not the answer for Eldar and Tau "problem".

I didn't try to argue, because honestly I don't care for OP's list. I am amazed that it won a tournament. It's gimmicky. The gimmick being a horde. There's no other strategy than just drowning the board in bodies and lead. And I'm most definitely not saying that any 4th or 5th edition codex is going to magically find a list that will knock Taudar off their pedestal.

I'm saying stop playing the "this list beats that list beats my list beats your list" game. How about suggesting strategies and tactics and unit selections that could be used to make it easier to beat the OP's list? (has anyone heard of a Night Spinner?? What is Bubble wrapping??) If that is indeed what they want to hear.

I've noticed that the comments the OP responds to are actually more about changing his list, are about what else can be taken in an ork army to make his greentide better? And if you don't know and that's what he wants to talk about then don't post something irrelevant like "well my list can beat yours".

We can be here to the end of time playing that game but it doesn't make any of us any better generals and it just makes it harder for the poster to get the feedback he/she is interested in. If they say "lol this is unbeatable come beat my list!" feel free to theory and math and rock paper scissors him to death.

My point in bringing up my supposed counter to your list is how god awfully circular that argument is and how futile it is to argue about it over the internet in a thread that's not even asking for that argument.

Okay as a player of Eldar I will show you my all comers 1250 list, that is a highly competitive list. I will not deny that through a TO who throws terrain down like crazy this ork list would have some serious advantages over every list by hugging terrain that blocks LoS. But on an average board with 2 LOS blockers mid-field this army will be able to move it's 12" a turn and get LOS where it didn't before. Additionally, we can expect the OP to be moving 9-10" a turn against this list because he is not stupid and knows full well the only way he will kill this Eldar list is CC with Orks against rear armour. Because I know he wants to get close to me I would deploy fully on the back edge of the board (the front of my hull would be 6" up or so) That would mean he would deploy 30" away from me so he is at threat range for assault turn 3. If I have first turn, he has 3 units left, if he gets first turn he has 4 units left, on average not including the opportunity for Doom, etc.

Farseer;
-Jetbike
-MotLG
-Runes of Warding

5 Dire Avengers (x4)
-Wave Serpent
-Holo-fields

Fire Prism (x2)
-Holo-fields

If I give up my turn 3 shooting I can flat out to the other side of the board and buy myself 2 more turns of shooting in general. That means by the time he gets to me again he is most likely going to have between one and two units remaining. But he will probably be smart, and rather than chase me hug some terrain to claim objectives on my backboard, if it is Crusade (2 objectives each) then we will probably end up with two objectives each at the end of the game. A tie for primary objective. Secondary objective, I will have first blood, we will both have line breaker, and no-one will have warlord kill. Over all 8-7 for my list. A close game indeed, and in a tournament, I would hate to face this army, because it will most likely totally kill my overall score because the victory gap would be so small. For tournament purposes, this army is nasty against what would be a top tier army because it will drop you to mid level if you face him round one. The big thing that makes this army so competitive is how different it is from every other army, people bringing armies designed to beat MEQ or TEQ which are the most common arrivals in a tournament, are going to run into something that they simply don't posses enough shots to kill more than one unit a turn. And if you aren't running a mech army his ridiculous number of shots will eventually shred you down. I think the point I'm trying to make is it is strong against a lot of builds, but unfortunately will lose in the end to the top tier armies.

 bocatt wrote:
I'm saying stop playing the "this list beats that list beats my list beats your list" game. How about suggesting strategies and tactics and unit selections that could be used to make it easier to beat the OP's list? (has anyone heard of a Night Spinner?? What is Bubble wrapping??) If that is indeed what they want to hear.

I'm actually building a Night Spinner at this very moment, which will replace one Wave Serpent. I've played with it a lot(used my Wave Serpent as a proxy, most people don't mind in casual games) and it's ace. Also, Swooping Hawks are murder against OP's list or any like that. 3 squads of 6 and that will itself cause all sorts of mayhem.

I've noticed that the comments the OP responds to are actually more about changing his list, are about what else can be taken in an ork army to make his greentide better? And if you don't know and that's what he wants to talk about then don't post something irrelevant like "well my list can beat yours".

I can see where you got the idea, and I admit I sort of jumped on the bandwagon, but my reason for doing that was that in my earlier comment, after I said how much I like the OP's list, I tried pointing out that it's exactly as you say, a gimmick, and any decent general running a decent list will probably find a way around it, or at least make him fight for that win, after he claimed you can just shut your brain down and win. It's never as simple as that, not in 6th edition. But I never actually posted my list, so I felt obligated to do so. Plus, it's hardly tailored for hordes? It's just that 80% of units in Eldar codex are good at killing infantry, there's no way around that.

We can be here to the end of time playing that game but it doesn't make any of us any better generals and it just makes it harder for the poster to get the feedback he/she is interested in. If they say "lol this is unbeatable come beat my list!" feel free to theory and math and rock paper scissors him to death.

I agree, it is stupid,, but in the end, he must have seen it coming. When you post something as audacious and pompous as "the undefeated, tournament winning list" and then post a gimmick, you're asking to be brought down a peg. People will always react to strong statements with strong counter-statements, especially online.

this whole stupid thing people in this thread have going on with specific armies beating the OP's is a joke.

Maybe you should have another look then?
Alot of these lists are pretty basic cookie cutter.
You dont have to tailor a good TAC list to deal with massed infantry, it does that anyway otherwise it wouldnt be a very good TAC list.

Also, picking the best units from a book?
The title says about an undefeated army, so yes, when making a competitive list, this is the idea usually.

danny1995 wrote:
For tournament purposes, this army is nasty against what would be a top tier army because it will drop you to mid level if you face him round one.

This is a VERY good point. Most of us are set on proving that the OP won't win a tournament, but there will be very, very few lists that actually manage a decent score against it. In that sense, it's very much a meta-changer.

You know what would be an awsome battle with this list? If you take on the following:

Typhus

35 zombies x6
5 spawn with MoN

The board will be covered!!! 30 more zombies than boyz but of course the boyz have the advantage there... would the spawn and typhus with his destroyer hive and deamon weapon be able to swing it? It'd be an interesting (and long!) game.

This is another example of how Imperial Knights are going to change the field.

3 Knight Paladins wins this game, is a TAC list, and something that might be common even though it is wasting 100ish points. points.

Dude it would suck if some one brought trazyn... And tesla mortals anni barges sixes will become an enemy

I can see a Krieg army list with 12 heavy mortars doing a lot of gak.

OP your list is super easy to beat - let me break it down for you. This list has you beat before models are even on the table.

War boss - warbike, combi-Flamer

10x grots w/ runtherd
9x nobs w/ warbikes, combi-Flamers

15x Burna Boys
15x Burna Boys

Battle Wagon
Battle Wagon

It matters not who goes first. I sit more than 24" away from you. If you break that 24" line, I move forward. The battlewagonz charge forward, unconcerned of all threats. The Bikers rip forward, burn a squad to death and multi-assault any survivors. The I3 and HoW attacks ensure your boys will die. You desperately try and charge the wagonz, but guess what? I get 15xD3 overwatch HITS on the squad. Now the grots are up in your gak, and they unload everything. I did the math - that's 3 wounds even after cover saves. Come turn 3 my army has dealt over 184 wounds, killing all orks. GG homes.
I already won.
You should have made a list that counters this list instead of the list you made.

My 9 Biovore list would have fun with this

I dont really have any 1250 lists for my DE but I would imagine a bit of Venom Spam and Liquifier and Poison Weapons from the Wracks would give the list a bit of a headache.

This above poster makes no sense, tailoring an army to beat the op list is just plane dumb, and then listening to the people afterwards (like me) tell you every list (tailored of course) that will beat your list.

 mik339 wrote:
Come turn 3 my army has dealt over 184 wounds, killing all orks. GG homes.
I already won.
You should have made a list that counters this list instead of the list you made.

Woah, woah, calm down. I think everybody is getting a little up in arms about this army because they want to think they are really good. It is one thing to state the deficiencies of the army, and what you think you can beat, but don't patronize the guy for fielding an army other than yours.

 Arbiter wrote:
This above poster makes no sense, tailoring an army to beat the op list is just plane dumb, and then listening to the people afterwards (like me) tell you every list (tailored of course) that will beat your list.

I assume you are talking about the guy above me because my lists are not tailored, they are just what I run

 mik339 wrote:

" This list has you beat before models are even on the table. "

(tailors a list with 37 templates)

"I already won"

Seriously whats the point of this game any more. Rather than spending a weekend playing this game, why not just match up the lists and determine winners that way?

And of course since this is 40k, roll a d6 for each game. On a 3+ the expected winner takes it, but on a 2 or less the underdog list reigns supreme.

When I grab my end of the table and flip the whole fething thing over....try beating that with your list!

Hey hey. So I know we're already on page 3, but I would like to point out that mik339 is the OP, and him posting a counter list to his own list is funny, was possibly meant to be funny, and made me laugh.

This thread has become a silly place.

- motherbrain

@blaktoof I like your list, because you take the nob with big choppa instead of a PK. It's still strong enough to glance most vehicles and doesn't waste too many points. I also agree with whoever brought up the point about tailoring armies to defeat a hoard swarm. Most people aren't going to bring squad killers to tourneys because no one brings massed troops.
@Soomemafia when assaulting you always hit against the back armour of vehicles correct? Most vehicles have a back armour value of 10 (if not @Blaktoof's list with big choppa wielding nobs would take care of that) The fast "taudar" armies may be able to run, but an 18" range with 60 shots can usually kill a few per turn.
This list may not be unbeatable, but it'd sure be a dang hard army to face. I was going to try something similar, but... I got too lazy (which I'm sure most orks players do) and didn;t want to have to paint 180 boyz


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 mik339 wrote:

" This list has you beat before models are even on the table. "

(tailors a list with 37 templates)

"I already won"

Seriously whats the point of this game any more. Rather than spending a weekend playing this game, why not just match up the lists and determine winners that way?

And of course since this is 40k, roll a d6 for each game. On a 3+ the expected winner takes it, but on a 2 or less the underdog list reigns supreme.

LOL

motherbrain wrote:
Hey hey. So I know we're already on page 3, but I would like to point out that mik339 is the OP, and him posting a counter list to his own list is funny, was possibly meant to be funny, and made me laugh.

This thread has become a silly place.

- motherbrain

Made me laugh too so I hope it was meant as a joke.

So the original list has weaknesses, practically every army does. The fact is, at a tournament most people will be more concerned about the elite lists and that gives this list an advantage. If you're not playing as one of the "big 3" you need to grab every advantage you can. I also think the OP has shown some tactical nous with some of his follow up comments so he is clearly not just taking a "point and click" army. This list clearly can have success because it goes against the agreed "logic" of a tournament army. Eventually he will lose because we all do and kudos to the player who brings the army to do it, but that army will lose eventually as well.

Let's not play rock, paper, scissors as that game will never end and for me takes the fun out of it a little.

Congrats to the OP for having an undefeated army so far, hopefully you've taken some pointers from this thread on how, maybe, you can improve your list and keep the streak going a little longer.

This thread is so confusing...

Had to be there from the beginning. I totally didn't realize that it was the OP fielding that tailored list. I hate list tailoring with a passion. I'd rather face the cheesiest all comers list in the world than against a tailored list. Seriously, bring 4 riptides against me, I'd rather that than have you look at my army list and decide what counters every single model in my army.

At 1250 this is the list that I have fun and TAC. it may not win but will put up a fight (hoard on hoard combat).fun times

+++ Stitch's Bitches (1166pts) +++


+ HQ + (365pts)

* Daemonic Heralds (365pts)
* Herald of Slaanesh
(Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike, Independent Character)
D6 Daemonic Reward (Lesser Rewards, Magic Weapons), Greater Locus of Swiftness (*), Psyker Level 2 (Excess Discipline), Steed of Slaanesh (Acute Senses, Outflank)

* Herald of Slaanesh(*3)
(Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike, Independent Character)
D6 Daemonic Reward (Lesser Rewards, Magic Weapons), Greater Locus of Swiftness (*)
* Daemon of Slaanesh

+ Troops + (483pts)

* Daemonettes of Slaanesh (161pts)
(Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike)
14x Daemonettes, Icon of Chaos (*), Instrument of Chaos (*)
* Alluress
D6 Daemonic Reward (Lesser Rewards, Magic Weapons)
* Daemon of Slaanesh
(Additional inches when Run, Flat Out moves, Fleet, Hatred (Daemon of Khorne), Rending)
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)


* Daemonettes of Slaanesh (161pts)
(Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike)
14x Daemonettes, Icon of Chaos (*), Instrument of Chaos (*)
* Alluress
D6 Daemonic Reward (Lesser Rewards, Magic Weapons)
* Daemon of Slaanesh
(Additional inches when Run, Flat Out moves, Fleet, Hatred (Daemon of Khorne), Rending)
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)


* Daemonettes of Slaanesh (161pts)
(Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike)
14x Daemonettes, Icon of Chaos (*), Instrument of Chaos (*)
* Alluress
D6 Daemonic Reward (Lesser Rewards, Magic Weapons)
* Daemon of Slaanesh
(Additional inches when Run, Flat Out moves, Fleet, Hatred (Daemon of Khorne), Rending)
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)


+ Fast Attack + (143pts)

* Seekers of Slaanesh (143pts)
(Acute Senses, Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike, Outflank)
Icon of Chaos (*), Instrument of Chaos (*), 9x Seekers
* Daemon of Slaanesh
(Additional inches when Run, Flat Out moves, Fleet, Hatred (Daemon of Khorne), Rending)
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)
* Heartseeker
D6 Daemonic Reward (Lesser Rewards, Magic Weapons)


+ Heavy Support + (175pts)

* Soul Grinder of Chaos (175pts)
(Daemonic Resilience, Deep Strike)
Phlegm Bombardment
* Daemon of Slaanesh
(Additional inches when Run, Flat Out moves, Fleet, Hatred (Daemon of Khorne), Rending)
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)

Im just going to come out and say it.

This list is terrible. At 1250, a competetive eldar player will easily have 4 Wave serpents. Possibly War Walkers as well. This is not a case of "My tailored list will wreck your list." Seprent Spam is one of the most common Eldar TAC lists.

Reading the responses here, I think a lot of you missed the point. This is a 1250 List, and NO ONE, plans on facing an Ork horde of this magnitude. NO ONE. (I capitalized it because at most tournaments these days, you are lucky if there is a couple ork players)


You absolutely can sit here and theorycraft how to beat this, and it would get destroyed at LVO or some other place where all the neckbeard army hoppers hang out, but if it showed up to a small tourney, unannounced, it would be a lot of fun to fight and/or play. Especially at 1250.



Grats on having a good time. I am in the middle of painting up a new 90 ork boyz because I plan on blanketing some guys at a local tourney. They know it is coming and are planning against it, but I just don't care. Must....WAAAAAAAAAAGH!

It's simple. It's deadly. It's Orky. I love it. A few PKs to deal with an armor 14 is my only critique.

 Saevus wrote:
Reading the responses here, I think a lot of you missed the point. This is a 1250 List, and NO ONE, plans on facing an Ork horde of this magnitude. NO ONE. (I capitalized it because at most tournaments these days, you are lucky if there is a couple ork players)


You absolutely can sit here and theorycraft how to beat this, and it would get destroyed at LVO or some other place where all the neckbeard army hoppers hang out, but if it showed up to a small tourney, unannounced, it would be a lot of fun to fight and/or play. Especially at 1250.



Grats on having a good time. I am in the middle of painting up a new 90 ork boyz because I plan on blanketing some guys at a local tourney. They know it is coming and are planning against it, but I just don't care. Must....WAAAAAAAAAAGH!

I think you are missing the point. You dont even need to plan for this list. Like I said There are A LOT of really common, non-tailored, TAC lists that would just wreck all those unsupported Boyz. Eldar Wave Serpents / War Walkers, DE Venoms, CSM Heldrakes, IG Tanks / Artilery, Tau pie plates, C:SM thunderfire cannons...the list goes on and on. It might very well be entertaining to run that many Boyz at 1250, but it will not be a chalenge for most lists in a tourney environment.

I think the list is good I would get stuck with my space wolfs against this list, my space wolves are plasma heavey... My raven guard would charge them and be locked in combat and hopefuly win the combats but maybe not.

My standard 1000 point Dark Eldar army would be good for one or two of your units a turn, unless you rolled some really lucky Ld tests. Even more easily done, once we got to within 12 inches! Charges wouldn't be a concern, as anything close enough to assault my vehicles would be so thoroughly annihilated that, even if it was there after my shooting phase, my Overwatch would put a big hurt on them when they charged.

If I get to add an extra 250 points, I could unload the slaughter that much more thoroughly.

I love Orks, but I just don't see this army doing well against a 6e shooty army.

Eric

Two words: Furioso Dreadnought...with Blood Talons. You have ZERO ability to deal with AV13, and basically a Furioso will go on a complete slaughter spree and I could easily see it mulching 10-15 boys PER TURN with good rolls.
Land Raiders are a popular Space Marine vehicle in a lot of the tourney lists I see. You can't deal with one of those, let alone the sometimes 2-4 that some armies can field.
It looks like a fun list and it may be very powerful but armor will tear this to pieces.
Hell Drakes will eat this list ALIVE.

 mik339 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vendablefall wrote:
all someone needs to do is bring 3 dreadnoughts, and bam, half your army tied up in assault indefinitely.. dropping some boys to include PK nobs would help this

That's the beauty, no klaws are necassary. I actually played 3 chaos dreads no problem. A group of boys is only what, 80 more points than a dread? It's whatever. The lock doesn't do much. The dread chews like, 4 boys a turn, tops, and they can't be shot at. Except on the last turn, the boys have an option to "Our weapons are Useless!" Their way out of the engagement to dive an objective.
They may die, but boys die every day.

So, the walker sweeps them? >.>

I was going to say "fearless, can't do that," but then I think Mob Rule makes the fearless optional.

 MagickalMemories wrote:
My standard 1000 point Dark Eldar army would be good for one or two of your units a turn, unless you rolled some really lucky Ld tests. Even more easily done, once we got to within 12 inches! Charges wouldn't be a concern, as anything close enough to assault my vehicles would be so thoroughly annihilated that, even if it was there after my shooting phase, my Overwatch would put a big hurt on them when they charged.

If I get to add an extra 250 points, I could unload the slaughter that much more thoroughly.

I love Orks, but I just don't see this army doing well against a 6e shooty army.

Eric

I agree that 180 Orks of doom isn't the end all / be all of tournament lists, but I also think that a lot of people are guilty of underestimating the list. Its not like these are 180 slugga + choppa Boyz. These are all shoota boyz, and even with the superior mobility of Dark Eldar some of those boys are going to be getting within 18 inches of those vehicles. Raiders and Venoms can be glanced to death by shootas, and all the Boyz are getting a 5+ cover save against the poison weapons. Sure its not ideal, for da boyz, but it is far from an unwinnable fight like many posters are making it out to be. You see this in the assertions of Heldrakes and Walkers as well, in a meta where people typically are fielding less than 60 infantry models total, and is dominated by more elite units, the killing power of the Heldrake is more noticeable. A Drake is as capable of roasting 6 point Ork Boyz exactly as quickly as it is capable of roasting ~15 point (give or take) Space Marines. Sure its a mobile high strength flamer which can get great positioning, but I doubt Drakes will be able to sift all of the Boyz from the Objectives in time, and furthermore will have trouble with pathing due to the clutter on the board. They cannot go anywhere if their base cannot be placed due to Boyz and impassible terrain blocking where they want to go, which a savvy Orc Player can use to his advantage and keep the Heldrakes in less damning positions.

Its also kind of insane how many people forget that the Orks will be shooting back, and in a lot of cases with quite a bit of fire power. I recon that 1250 point Ork list has enough power to overwhelm many lists with shooting power alone. Av10 vehicles, Infantry, and to a lesser extent Monsters are all susceptible to Orc Shooting. People can toute range advantage and kitting all they want, but in a practical situation it can be incredibly difficult to keep out of range of 180 Boyz for more than a few turns.

Ultimately I feel that killing 180 toughness 4 bodies with a nearly universal 5+ cover save with the fire power found in a normal 1250 point all comer list- you know, one that generally includes anti tank weapons like Melta Guns and Las Cannons- would be a daunting prospect. Especially when all these bodies are fearless in groups over 10, and scoring, and have exceptional shooting out to 18 inches, and one of the stronger overwatches in the game, it doesn't surprise me that the OP does well with this list against competitive opponents.

akaean - I think alot of the underestimating here comes from the fact that everything relies on Boyz.
While they can murder even dedicated assault troops, they cant really hurt armour. (glance AV10 to death thanks to FC)

Soo many armies these days run alot of armour, both on ground and in sky.
This really does limit the use of the orks as they wont be doing alot most of the time.

Sure, 180 boyz is alot, and most armies will not shoot through them in a normal game.
However, most armies wont need to as the orks cant hurt them.

Walkers in this case are a huge threat as they will tear into the boyz without any threat of being harmed in return.







I think just by cutting a unit of boys out and upgrading the rest will make this alot better.
Boyz need a klaw nob with a boss pole to function as well as they can.
Hell, since they are shoota boyz, give em 3 rokkit launchas each too.

5 units of boyz with 3 rokkitz each still manages 5 S8 hits with them per turn.
While its not alot, its still something helpful.
Also, due to having low BS anyway, needing a 6 to hit a flyer really isnt all that bad for orks.

I say cut some boyz, add in a klaw nob with pole as a must.
Then throw on rokkitz if points permit.

These units then go from limited use to being able to hurt anything in the game, which upgrades the threat they possess by alot.

Fliers can land on impassable terrain, just so you're aware.

 Jackal wrote:
akaean - I think alot of the underestimating here comes from the fact that everything relies on Boyz.
While they can murder even dedicated assault troops, they cant really hurt armour. (glance AV10 to death thanks to FC)

Soo many armies these days run alot of armour, both on ground and in sky.
This really does limit the use of the orks as they wont be doing alot most of the time.

Sure, 180 boyz is alot, and most armies will not shoot through them in a normal game.
However, most armies wont need to as the orks cant hurt them.

Walkers in this case are a huge threat as they will tear into the boyz without any threat of being harmed in return.










I think just by cutting a unit of boys out and upgrading the rest will make this alot better.
Boyz need a klaw nob with a boss pole to function as well as they can.
Hell, since they are shoota boyz, give em 3 rokkit launchas each too.

5 units of boyz with 3 rokkitz each still manages 5 S8 hits with them per turn.
While its not alot, its still something helpful.
Also, due to having low BS anyway, needing a 6 to hit a flyer really isnt all that bad for orks.

I say cut some boyz, add in a klaw nob with pole as a must.
Then throw on rokkitz if points permit.

These units then go from limited use to being able to hurt anything in the game, which upgrades the threat they possess by alot.

Agree with everything.

As a BA player I would gladly throw two Furiosos and a Death Company Dread right into these guys. Three scoring blobs most likely tied up for the remainder of the game in CC or at least for enough turns to make them useless.
At 1250 points this army could take a lot by surprise but many of the armies that I see in my area always try to cram at least one Land Raider in that size, and I guarantee that I would bring at least one Furioso to a tournament of that size so....yeah.
Then again BA aren't exactly competitive so take that as you will.
As far as shooty ability? Law of averages practically ENSURES that that many dice thrown will hit and wound a lot of units. I see this being a lethal meat grinder against infantry, and honestly even Terminators would be hard pressed to weather that much lead thrown at them. Trick is that they die pretty easily, and with the garbage BS I just don't think it will be enough to tip the scales. As for the OP what kind of armies has this beat? What are the skill level of the players? Are the armies that this list decimates of the top quality that the current meta can produce? I think that is the true tell of this army's effectiveness. Remember, playing the same five guys every single time in the local tourney is not necessarily the status quo of the meta...

The bane of this would be melee. But since nobody ever takes melee anymore, you would seriously troll a tournament with this list Right up until you hit a somewhat fluffy list with some odd list choices, at least. Hellbrutes and Berzerkers would do hilarious amounts of damage. But, like I said, nobody takes things like that in the current meta. DE would also roast your onion. As far as shooting, though, all you have to worry about is massed pie plates, and maybe torrents. Still, that's a lot of bodies to chew through. I have played against a footslogging IG enough to know how to make melee work in my favor, though.

 akaean wrote:

 MagickalMemories wrote:
My standard 1000 point Dark Eldar army would be good for one or two of your units a turn, unless you rolled some really lucky Ld tests. Even more easily done, once we got to within 12 inches! Charges wouldn't be a concern, as anything close enough to assault my vehicles would be so thoroughly annihilated that, even if it was there after my shooting phase, my Overwatch would put a big hurt on them when they charged.

If I get to add an extra 250 points, I could unload the slaughter that much more thoroughly.

I love Orks, but I just don't see this army doing well against a 6e shooty army.

Eric

I agree that 180 Orks of doom isn't the end all / be all of tournament lists, but I also think that a lot of people are guilty of underestimating the list. Its not like these are 180 slugga + choppa Boyz. These are all shoota boyz, and even with the superior mobility of Dark Eldar some of those boys are going to be getting within 18 inches of those vehicles. Raiders and Venoms can be glanced to death by shootas, and all the Boyz are getting a 5+ cover save against the poison weapons. Sure its not ideal, for da boyz, but it is far from an unwinnable fight like many posters are making it out to be.

I've never had a problem with 'stick and move" fighting with my DE. Even with the 5+ cover saves, which I'd considered, it's no match for an optimized DE low points list.
Also, in response to a comment I snipped for clarity, any good DE shooting list will be an "all comers" list. Every Raider should have a Dark Lance on it and one in it. That's in addition to the Ravagers (I typically field one with 3 DL and one with 3 Disintegrators).

The only way this beats an optimized DE list is luck, plain and simple.

Eric

The bane of this army is anything with armour 11+ or T7+
As well as ignore cover templates (180 boyz is hard to spread out).

I doubt this list would make it at my LGS (very competitive).

Need to keep in mind that horde thinning weapons really are in alot more use now.
These days near on every army has a way to deal with armour quickly, so people then invest in more units to mop up anything unarmoured.
So infantry killing weapons are now very common.

Heldrakes, wraith guard with scythes, combi-flamers are even used more.

Just seems there are a ton of ways to kill infantry now.



Also, alot of deathstars are near impossible to kill with massed boyz.
Draigo and paladins will wreck a unit a turn near on.
Bikernobz, thunderwolf cav, jetseers, it seems near on every power build can counter a wave of boyz.

Thats why i think upgrades in the unit are so important.

With my BA, i make the most from upgrades as they really boost a unit and make it 10x better.

A unit of sanguine guards are good.
Give them the banner and death masks and the damage output goes up alot.
Give 2-3 of them an inferno pistol and they can wreck armour aswell.
Sure, points add up, but alot of upgrades really are worth the cost as even adding a 2nd unit wont make the 1st any better than some upgrades can.

 Jackal wrote:
Need to keep in mind that horde thinning weapons really are in alot more use now.
These days near on every army has a way to deal with armour quickly, so people then invest in more units to mop up anything unarmoured.
So infantry killing weapons are now very common.

Heldrakes, wraith guard with scythes, combi-flamers are even used more.

Just seems there are a ton of ways to kill infantry now.



Also, alot of deathstars are near impossible to kill with massed boyz.
Draigo and paladins will wreck a unit a turn near on.
Bikernobz, thunderwolf cav, jetseers, it seems near on every power build can counter a wave of boyz.

Thats why i think upgrades in the unit are so important.

With my BA, i make the most from upgrades as they really boost a unit and make it 10x better.

A unit of sanguine guards are good.
Give them the banner and death masks and the damage output goes up alot.
Give 2-3 of them an inferno pistol and they can wreck armour aswell.
Sure, points add up, but alot of upgrades really are worth the cost as even adding a 2nd unit wont make the 1st any better than some upgrades can.

I don't know if I'd march five Sanguinary Guard in a mob of 30 boyz...even with death masks and a banner that's an awful lot of attacks per turn to weather...and I absolutely LOVE the Sanguinary Guard.

The most terrifying thing about this list is being an assault army against it, think about it, you charge into 60 s4 (i think don't quote me) shots even with space marines at least 2-3 will die, and thats without him shooting you first. You will spend at least one turn within 18" of at least one squad of boyz, probably 2, so before you even charge a unit of boys, 8 dead marines, ouchie ouchie ouch ouch. Two marines will do NOTHING to a unit of Orks.

danny1995 wrote:
The most terrifying thing about this list is being an assault army against it, think about it, you charge into 60 s4 (i think don't quote me) shots even with space marines at least 2-3 will die, and thats without him shooting you first. You will spend at least one turn within 18" of at least one squad of boyz, probably 2, so before you even charge a unit of boys, 8 dead marines, ouchie ouchie ouch ouch. Two marines will do NOTHING to a unit of Orks.

Hence why I wouldn't charge that mob with Sanguinary Guard

I don't know if I'd march five Sanguinary Guard in a mob of 30 boyz...even with death masks and a banner that's an awful lot of attacks per turn to weather...and I absolutely LOVE the Sanguinary Guard.

Haha, neither would i bud.
My only point there was really just to show that some upgrades for units are a must have most of the time.
Barebones units are nice, but they are limited because of it.

As a BA player though, i rather use a redeemer full of DC to deal with boyz.

Personally, I disagree entirely with "less boyz, add PK nob and rokkits"

 Jackal wrote:

I don't know if I'd march five Sanguinary Guard in a mob of 30 boyz...even with death masks and a banner that's an awful lot of attacks per turn to weather...and I absolutely LOVE the Sanguinary Guard.

Haha, neither would i bud.
My only point there was really just to show that some upgrades for units are a must have most of the time.
Barebones units are nice, but they are limited because of it.

As a BA player though, i rather use a redeemer full of DC to deal with boyz.

Yeah I think DC would destroy that pretty liberally. I know that a squad of five with good rolls can take out 12 boys so a Redeemer full should be plenty lol.

Also Devastators would have a field day with this list if you were running Plasma Cannons...

I'd run it like this:
HQ (220pts)
Big Mek (110pts)
Furious Charge, Independent Character, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Bosspole (*), Burna, Kustom force field (*), Mek's tools (*)
Big Mek (110pts)
Furious Charge, Independent Character, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Bosspole (*), Burna, Kustom force field (*), Mek's tools (*)
Elites (180pts)
Lootas (180pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
12x Loota
Troops (603pts)
Gretchin (117pts)
29x Gretchin
It's a Grot's Life
29x Grot blasta
Runtherd
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Grot-prod, Slugga, Squig hound (*)
Runtherd
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Grot-prod, Slugga, Squig hound (*)
Ork Boyz (194pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
21x Boy
21x Shoota
Boy with special weapon
Big shoota
Boy with special weapon
Big shoota
Nob
Bosspole (*), Power klaw
Ork Boyz (146pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
19x Boy
19x Shoota
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Ork Boyz (146pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
19x Boy
19x Shoota
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Fast Attack (135pts)
Dakkajet (135pts)
Waagh! Plane
2 Twin-linked supa shootas, Additional twin-linked supa shoota, Fighta Ace (*), Red paint job (*)
Heavy Support (102pts)
Big Gunz (102pts)
3x Ammo runt (*), 3x Kannon
6x Extra Gretchin
6x Grot blasta
6x Gretchin
6x Grot blasta
Runtherd
Furious Charge
Grot-prod (*), Slugga, Squig hound (*)

The meks would walk with the rokkit shootas, bosspole would help them take maximum advantage of their higher \leadership when the time comes. a dakka jet is tasty for the range and transport popping at this level, then a load of lootas and fuly stocked kannonz for the higher armour enemies. burnas are nice with their anti power armour and anti horde capabilities. the grots are to slow up anyone who is heavily assault based to give me the counter charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the grot prods are dynamite against monstrous creatures, which end up swinging uselesley againt the mass of grots while I peel them apart

This fighting a massed guard infantry behind an agies would be epic.

I've watched a similiar ork list with my group.... The list didn't work... His opponent was using mortar an medusa/basilisk/griffon ig and watched ork guy pick up an avg of 40 models per turn.... I guess just depends which list the ork player plays against.

I play a Necron Pirate ship list (AV13 all round on every unit) so really you couldn't get a single kill where as I could just park my ghost arks on objectives to contest them denying you of any points what so ever O.o I'd win by just getting first blood.

My Steel Legion would clean house.

Something to add, wave serpent spam - mobility and firepower.
This is something a 1250 list would bring and it would gobble up this list slowly albeit. I think Death company would literally have a blast against this list. They would be in slaughter heaven.

300 points worth of thunderfire cannons will definately ruin this "list" and as an added bonus six plasmacannons for 120 points from Inquisition Codex will let your opponent table you with only total of 420 points.

And yes I do bring these along me to a tourneys.

I would love to have that many boyz against me in a tourney match as after the battle I would have plenty of time to grab some cola and pizza vefore the other matches would finish.

My salamanders would have a good time, I wonder what roasted ork tastes like.

I'd just take a Trancendent C'Tan and blow half your army away turn one or two

I just used it in a 1250 tournament and won first I even beat a tyranid gaunt horde army

Your have a lot of useless wounds and it'll take a bit to kill it all but it's not impossible

Heck IG wyverans or whatever they are called will tear your list to pieces

This was posted several months ago...

For the love of god please do not start this again.

^ What has been started, cannot be unstarted.