The misconception that Tyranids only consume the plants and animals on a world. Nuh uh, they strip it down to the bedrock and take a truckload of minerals with them too.
Xyptc wrote: The misconception that Tyranids only consume the plants and animals on a world. Nuh uh, they strip it down to the bedrock and take a truckload of minerals with them too.
The Imperial Guard doesnt just execute people for every little transgression. They have more or less (in the literal sense) extreme punitive measures. Though this does some to differ from commander to commander.
Oooh... I could rattle off a whole list of them about the Sisters! Let's see...
- A common one I see is the assumption that Sisters operate a bit like Marine Chapters, recruiting from specific worlds or adopting notably different cultures of their own. Really, they just get all of their recruits from Scholas and are much more uniform in their culture.
- Another fairly common one is that Ward is constantly writing fluff where the Sisters get slaughtered. Yes he did write the Bloodtide, in which they ddin't really fare well, but apart from that nothing. He even wrote some of the fluff in the WD codex in which the Sisters were really shown in a good light. This misconception can get to comical levels sometimes, with a 1d4chan article saying something like Ward slaughters the SoB in 70% of all fluff her writes, and then going on to only cite the Bloodtide as an example.
- This is probably more of a matter of where you get your fluff from than a misconception, but the Witch Hunters codex notes Sororitas Power Armour is as protective as Marine Armour. Though granted FFG has it being less effective, I think that quite a few people are unaware of what the WH codex says.
- The Sisters being magical is also one. Same deal as the one above in that it really depends on where you look, but the codexes themselves do more or less say that the Sisters aren't magical.
- The nature of Living Saints is also a very common misconception The title doesn't just refer to a magical angel woman like Celestine, the title really just refers to people who were declared saints whilst alive. Dominica and at least one of her lieutenants were delcared Living Saints whilst they were alive. Granted, third-party creators like Relic, FFG and I think BL do use the title to refer to Sisters who have become like Celestine, but the actual meaning of the title remains.
And, for a bonus non-SoB one, its a fairly common one that no Space Marines worship Big E as a god. Some are mentioned as doing so, depending on where you look, and the BTs are stated outright as doing so in the new Marine codex. Though I will clarify that this one is somewhat understandable, since IIRC not worshiping the Emperor as a god is stated to be the norm for Marines.
And, for a bonus non-SoB one, its a fairly common one that no Space Marines worship Big E as a god. Some are mentioned as doing so, depending on where you look, and the BTs are stated outright as doing so in the new Marine codex.
Yeah, that's a weird one. When I stopped playing during third I was absolutely under the impression that all Space Marines considered the Big E a god. I mean, maybe the 2nd Ed codices did say otherwise, but I hadn't noticed. Then I came back in for 6th and read the first Horus Heresy book from a friend and found that apparently the Emperor is all athiest or something now...
Psienesis wrote: GW/BL has re-tooled the Great Crusade as a sort of Enlightenment vs Dark Ages thing.
Don't they go on to discuss that the Emperor sort of set this up because he was under the impression that hiding the existence of Chaos from humanity would help them to avoid being enslaved by it?
And the HH is sort of the universe going "nuh uh"...
The Imperial Guard doesnt just execute people for every little transgression. They have more or less (in the literal sense) extreme punitive measures. Though this does some to differ from commander to commander.
If you take away the downward bar in the center than it is.
Psienesis wrote: GW/BL has re-tooled the Great Crusade as a sort of Enlightenment vs Dark Ages thing.
Don't they go on to discuss that the Emperor sort of set this up because he was under the impression that hiding the existence of Chaos from humanity would help them to avoid being enslaved by it?
And the HH is sort of the universe going "nuh uh"...
SkavenLord wrote: C.S. Goto has a lot of these like Slaaneshi Eldar and backflipping terminators.
Yes those are two obscure examples.
C.S. Goto hate pisses me off. To pick a prime example.
The multilaser-toting devestators aren't so despicable.
This was the Mantis Warriors Chapter after all, which had been recently almost destroyed and had been having to scavenge their equipment.
Also, where anywhere does it say that Devestators aren't allowed to wield multilasers if they want to? A Space Marine gets what he wants, not what he is provided with (obviously at a high enough rank or significance)
- Dark Eldar can become monstrous psychic warriors, like normal eldar, but they'd become exiled from commoragh most likely. So they aren't really dark eldar anymore.
- Necron Pariahs still exist - mat ward didn't have enough resources at his disposal to include them in the new codex.
Annoying fluff misconception: People thinking Chaos lost the 13th Black Crusade. We won it fair and square and handed the Imperials' their @$$es and how people could be so childish as to make up a different ending, put it on 40K wiki and get the article locked and then cite it as fact astonishes me.
DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote: - Dark Eldar can become monstrous psychic warriors, like normal eldar, but they'd become exiled from commoragh most likely. So they aren't really dark eldar anymore.
- Necron Pariahs still exist - mat ward didn't have enough resources at his disposal to include them in the new codex.
XD
They can become monstrous psychic warriors, it's just that they'd be drunk by She Who Thirsts because using psychic powers marks you out
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Veteran of The Long War wrote: Annoying fluff misconception: People thinking Chaos lost the 13th Black Crusade. We won it fair and square and handed the Imperials' their @$$es and how people could be so childish as to make up a different ending, put it on 40K wiki and get the article locked and then cite it as fact astonishes me.
They should've won it's just that people at GW are allergic to plot development.
Xyptc wrote: The misconception that Tyranids only consume the plants and animals on a world. Nuh uh, they strip it down to the bedrock and take a truckload of minerals with them too.
This is wrong, unless things have changed since the last time I read up on the Tyranids. Tyranids consume until all organic matter is gone, leaving the rest. I remember this because I've always thought it funny that Tyranids and (old, I guess) Necrons could theoretically be on the same planet and ignore each other, since they're after different parts of the planet.
Veteran of The Long War wrote: Annoying fluff misconception: People thinking Chaos lost the 13th Black Crusade. We won it fair and square and handed the Imperials' their @$$es and how people could be so childish as to make up a different ending, put it on 40K wiki and get the article locked and then cite it as fact astonishes me.
If by won you actually men barely established a foothold at the cost of your entire navy, then yeah, chaos won that.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing. - Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
In terms of the Orks stuff it states in the 5E Codex that some Ork weapons don't fire when used by races other than Orks, confirming that they do believe that they fire because Orks think they should. And, just because it's the symbol for the main sept doesn't make it the symbol for the Empire.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
In terms of the Orks stuff it states in the 5E Codex that some Ork weapons don't fire when used by races other than Orks, confirming that they do believe that they fire because Orks think they should.
And, just because it's the symbol for the main sept doesn't make it the symbol for the Empire.
What does the quote actually say? Is it from an in-universe source? There are plenty of better explanations for why they wouldn't work, you shouldn't just assume it's because there's no Orks there. It doesn't really confirm it if it's in-universe speculation and the fact that it's not all Ork weapons doesn't support the theory.
It's the symbol for the centre of the Tau Empire. Page 55 of the previous Tau codex says "the common symbol of the Tau Empire...is displayed on the armour of all fire caste warriors"
BrotherOfBone wrote: In terms of the Orks stuff it states in the 5E Codex that some Ork weapons don't fire when used by races other than Orks, confirming that they do believe that they fire because Orks think they should.
An in-universe report from a techpriest states that ork weapons won't work unless fired by an ork.
That's as reliable as a XIXth century physicist speaking about aether.
BrotherOfBone wrote: In terms of the Orks stuff it states in the 5E Codex that some Ork weapons don't fire when used by races other than Orks, confirming that they do believe that they fire because Orks think they should.
An in-universe report from a techpriest states that ork weapons won't work unless fired by an ork.
That's as reliable as a XIXth century physicist speaking about aether.
Not sure if you're agreeing with me as I don't understand the reference
Xyptc wrote: The misconception that Tyranids only consume the plants and animals on a world. Nuh uh, they strip it down to the bedrock and take a truckload of minerals with them too.
This is wrong, unless things have changed since the last time I read up on the Tyranids. Tyranids consume until all organic matter is gone, leaving the rest. I remember this because I've always thought it funny that Tyranids and (old, I guess) Necrons could theoretically be on the same planet and ignore each other, since they're after different parts of the planet.
No, going back as far as the Sherman Bishop-derived fan-fluff that became canon during the third edition Codex, Tyranid consumption of a world strips so much off of it that a planet is noticeably smaller once the Hive Fleet moves on.
As mentioned above, they strip organic matter, the atmosphere, the oceans, useful minerals and apparently even leech thermal energy through vents to the core dug by Magma-Corers. There has been nothing to contradict this, although obviously the full scale of the planet-stripping depends on the size of the Hive Fleet in question.
Yep. Tyranids leave behind nothing but a lifeless, dead rock in space when they finish with a world.
Brother of Bone wrote:Not sure if you're agreeing with me as I don't understand the reference
Ork weapons work just fine if you pick it up and squeeze the trigger, assuming there's a round in the chamber. The AdMech believes that these weapons cannot possibly function normally, thus requiring Xeno magic, as they don't match human design specs. The AdMech, however, is extremely humanocentrist, and has varying degrees of competency within its ranks.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Spoiler:
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the
T fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
Tau codex, page 11. under T'au. I'l even add a pic for your convenience.
Spoiler:
See, I told you it's a common misconception . If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
Veteran of The Long War wrote: Annoying fluff misconception: People thinking Chaos lost the 13th Black Crusade. We won it fair and square and handed the Imperials' their @$$es and how people could be so childish as to make up a different ending, put it on 40K wiki and get the article locked and then cite it as fact astonishes me.
If by won you actually men barely established a foothold at the cost of your entire navy, then yeah, chaos won that.
Considering that this seems to be still be using the false data...
Funky Alliances actually have existed.
GK have helped Eldar, there are Dark Eldar cults that actually summon daemons, there are Tau Caste that use Orks as Mercenaries..
Veteran of The Long War wrote: Annoying fluff misconception: People thinking Chaos lost the 13th Black Crusade. We won it fair and square and handed the Imperials' their @$$es and how people could be so childish as to make up a different ending, put it on 40K wiki and get the article locked and then cite it as fact astonishes me.
6th Edition change it anyway: now abaddon's goals are different and make him seem like less of a completely idiotic donkey cave smashing his head against the wall multiple times
Besides Lexicanum is better source than 40K Wikia
Abdaddon has no arms and is a failure. Probably the most annoying meme in W40K fandom that has been so warped a lot of people don't even know why it started in the first place.
Psienesis wrote: Ork weapons work just fine if you pick it up and squeeze the trigger, assuming there's a round in the chamber. The AdMech believes that these weapons cannot possibly function normally, thus requiring Xeno magic, as they don't match human design specs.
I remember reading a passage stating that the trigger mechanism of a recovered Ork gun was not actually attached to anything, even though it was observed to fire.
DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote: - Dark Eldar can become monstrous psychic warriors, like normal eldar, but they'd become exiled from commoragh most likely. So they aren't really dark eldar anymore.
- Necron Pariahs still exist - mat ward didn't have enough resources at his disposal to include them in the new codex.
XD
They can become monstrous psychic warriors, it's just that they'd be drunk by She Who Thirsts because using psychic powers marks you out
Right. So thats why they gotta figure out how to circumvent that little set back. The normal Eldar have their ways of protection from she who thirsts. Now the DE gotta think up something cool.
Orks are all psychically active at a low level means that if an ork believes something works, it does.
No. Just no.
Even if the premise is determined to be true in-game, the presence of low-level psychic activity in all orks does not imbue each and every ork with the ability to totally bypass physics, nor does it indicate that orks can simply choose to believe in something and make it work.
It's well established that all orks have some niggling level of psychic ability. That alone means that individual orkish belief isn't enough to 'empower' a device to ignore the laws of physics. One ork doesn't generate much psychic energy. They have a low-level of psychic power. They aren't Eldar.
On top of that, even if orks do psychically manifest by empowering items to bypass the laws of physics, that doesn't follow that orks can simply 'choose' to believe something so that it happens. Belief is a pretty complicated state of affairs, and humans (and, presumably orks) can't just turn it on at will. Given that orks believe 'red wunz go fasta', and red vehicles do move faster for orks, doesn't indicate that orks painted their vehicles red, then decided to believe that make them faster.
Presumably, this arose from a more complicated state of affairs. Perhaps the Evil Suns, who tend to like red colors, and who have a love of speed and a lot of meks, painted a lot of vehicles red. These vehicles might have been faster because they were driven by orks with an affinity for speed, or orks who chose to spend a lot of teef on making a fast vehicle. Then, after orks observed many Evil Suns vehicles (which both tended to be red, and tended to be fast), a widespread belief in 'red=fast' arose in the ork psychology.
It just makes me ill when some glib nitwit spouts some random, stupid idea and justifies it with "Well, if the orks believe it, then it actually happens, because psychics."
Spoiler:
For a counter-example, here's my fluff idea for targeter squigs (as found on the Freebooter-looking Flash Git GW sells):
Targeter squigs are rotund, monocular, near-sighted squigs. They are reluctant to move, and prefer to sit immobile and wait for prey. When approached by a potential predator, the targeter squig emits a loud, piercing chirp, sounding much like an electronic ping or beep. If the predator continues to approach the squig, the targeter squig will continue to emit this unpleasant beeping, increasing in volume and frequency. If the predator approaches too closely to the squig, it will often vomit the contents of its stomach at the predator, void its bowels in the direction of the predator, or leap away awkwardly (and sometimes, all three).
Now, if an ork picks up a targeter squig, he's got a little pet that will sit on his shoulder. It's nearsighted, and has trouble with depth perception. If the ork is moving around, the squig will sometimes see something that alarms it, and emit a little panicked 'ping'. However, if the ork continues to move around, the squig might lose focus on the threat, and settle down, or see something else threatening. On the other hand, if the ork can muster up some concentration and stand fairly still, the targeter squig will focus on the prey and see it approaching. It will continue to ping and ping as the prey approaches. Ultimately, the squig will be emitting a panicked trill, if the enemy is fairly close. At this point, the ork knows that he had better shoot the enemy, or his pet will throw up or poop all over the place, so he shoots. As a result of standing still, the ork is actually in the best possible firing position (at least, for an ork), as he isn't running around, waving his arms, or generally being a boisterous ork.
So, even though the targeter squig doesn't actually 'target' the enemy, the behaviors that accompany the squig do benefit the ork's aim. As orks observe other orks using targeter squigs and being more accurate (for entirely the wrong reasons), a communal belief in the efficacy of targeter squigs arises in the orkish mind, to the extent that even in situations where the targeter squig should be of little help, an ork with one is measurably more accurate than one without.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Spoiler:
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the
T fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
Tau codex, page 11. under T'au. I'l even add a pic for your convenience.
Spoiler:
See, I told you it's a common misconception . If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
Either that's the incorrect symbol, or it's been changed. In the previous Tau Codex and the one before that the symbol for T'au was the same as the Fire Caste symbol. It's still the symbol for the Tau Empire unless somewhere says it's not, though. The previous Tau Codex says the symbol on the Firewarrior shoulderpad is the symbol used to represent the Tau empire and that's why it's on the shoulder of each Fire Warrior.
The C'tan gave the necrons their tech.
They didn't; the necrons were always technologically advanced. What the C'tan did do is teach them how to move their minds (or souls) to a mechanical body in such a way that their personalities are still intact (mostly intact, anyway).
Wyzilla wrote: Abdaddon has no arms and is a failure. Probably the most annoying meme in W40K fandom that has been so warped a lot of people don't even know why it started in the first place.
My guess would be he's failed so many times people thing he's harmles. Someone miss-overheard the disscussion and believed they where saying he was armless. The person went away and went on the net, and thus the chinese whispers began.
Wyzilla wrote: Abdaddon has no arms and is a failure. Probably the most annoying meme in W40K fandom that has been so warped a lot of people don't even know why it started in the first place.
My guess would be he's failed so many times people thing he's harmles. Someone miss-overheard the disscussion and believed they where saying he was armless. The person went away and went on the net, and thus the chinese whispers began.
Nah, it's 'cos the arms on his model were a bitch to glue in place because he was metal they too heavy. The arms kept falling off you see.
The one I encounter the most often is that In the 41st millennium, all chaos forces fight in small warbands made up of CSMs from all different legions and cults. While that is what's on the tabletop, it's simply not true. Word Bearers are still a legion and fight as one. Iron Warriors are still a legion but fight in chapter sized units. Black Legion is still a Legion. The only legions that are truly And irrevocably shattered are the World Eaters and Emperors Children and possibly Night Lords. However, a small band of World Eaters will still fight as World Eaters. A Death Guard contingent will still fight ad Death Guard. Legions still exist. Marines from those legions still fight in the manner of their parent legions and primarchs.
That there is such a thing as a consistent narrative or a concept of canon rather than the actual state of being where any interpretation is as valid as any other.
Or that 40k deserves to be taken seriously as a narrative rather than an over the top parody that has lost sight of what it actually is.
40k is heavy metal covers blended with every aspect of science fiction and much of fantasy up until the 80s thrown into a blender.
What it is not is a serious work of fiction, much less art. It's silly on a fundamental level.
Musashi363 wrote: The one I encounter the most often is that In the 41st millennium, all chaos forces fight in small warbands made up of CSMs from all different legions and cults. While that is what's on the tabletop, it's simply not true. Word Bearers are still a legion and fight as one. Iron Warriors are still a legion but fight in chapter sized units. Black Legion is still a Legion. The only legions that are truly And irrevocably shattered are the World Eaters and Emperors Children and possibly Night Lords. However, a small band of World Eaters will still fight as World Eaters. A Death Guard contingent will still fight ad Death Guard. Legions still exist. Marines from those legions still fight in the manner of their parent legions and primarchs.
There are plenty of canon mixed warbands who have little connection to their parent Legion. I get what you're saying though. Even in 'unifying' groups like the Black Legion I still struggle to imagine Thousand Sons and Plague Marine fighting literally next to each other.
A slight tangent but I've always seen the Black Legion in comparison to the RL communist Yugoslavia (bare with me). In Abaddon like Tito you have the Big Man who promotes an 'altruistic' message, whether its All Slavs Together or Chaos Undivided. As such you get disparate groups who have a history of rivalry coming under the same banner. However that doesn't make the inter-group distrust goes away, its simply subsumed by the Big Man's will.
My point is, while Abaddon can bring people together, if he's not running a Black Crusade or even simply not in the vicinity I imagine a decent minority marching under the Black Legion have little reason to stick to the unifying message and will break off quite easily, making the Black Legion the largest but ultimately far from the most unified force of Chaos.
Da Butcha wrote: Orks are all psychically active at a low level means that if an ork believes something works, it does.
No. Just no.
Even if the premise is determined to be true in-game, the presence of low-level psychic activity in all orks does not imbue each and every ork with the ability to totally bypass physics, nor does it indicate that orks can simply choose to believe in something and make it work.
It's well established that all orks have some niggling level of psychic ability. That alone means that individual orkish belief isn't enough to 'empower' a device to ignore the laws of physics. One ork doesn't generate much psychic energy. They have a low-level of psychic power. They aren't Eldar.
On top of that, even if orks do psychically manifest by empowering items to bypass the laws of physics, that doesn't follow that orks can simply 'choose' to believe something so that it happens. Belief is a pretty complicated state of affairs, and humans (and, presumably orks) can't just turn it on at will. Given that orks believe 'red wunz go fasta', and red vehicles do move faster for orks, doesn't indicate that orks painted their vehicles red, then decided to believe that make them faster.
Presumably, this arose from a more complicated state of affairs. Perhaps the Evil Suns, who tend to like red colors, and who have a love of speed and a lot of meks, painted a lot of vehicles red. These vehicles might have been faster because they were driven by orks with an affinity for speed, or orks who chose to spend a lot of teef on making a fast vehicle. Then, after orks observed many Evil Suns vehicles (which both tended to be red, and tended to be fast), a widespread belief in 'red=fast' arose in the ork psychology.
It just makes me ill when some glib nitwit spouts some random, stupid idea and justifies it with "Well, if the orks believe it, then it actually happens, because psychics."
Spoiler:
For a counter-example, here's my fluff idea for targeter squigs (as found on the Freebooter-looking Flash Git GW sells):
Targeter squigs are rotund, monocular, near-sighted squigs. They are reluctant to move, and prefer to sit immobile and wait for prey. When approached by a potential predator, the targeter squig emits a loud, piercing chirp, sounding much like an electronic ping or beep. If the predator continues to approach the squig, the targeter squig will continue to emit this unpleasant beeping, increasing in volume and frequency. If the predator approaches too closely to the squig, it will often vomit the contents of its stomach at the predator, void its bowels in the direction of the predator, or leap away awkwardly (and sometimes, all three).
Now, if an ork picks up a targeter squig, he's got a little pet that will sit on his shoulder. It's nearsighted, and has trouble with depth perception. If the ork is moving around, the squig will sometimes see something that alarms it, and emit a little panicked 'ping'. However, if the ork continues to move around, the squig might lose focus on the threat, and settle down, or see something else threatening. On the other hand, if the ork can muster up some concentration and stand fairly still, the targeter squig will focus on the prey and see it approaching. It will continue to ping and ping as the prey approaches. Ultimately, the squig will be emitting a panicked trill, if the enemy is fairly close. At this point, the ork knows that he had better shoot the enemy, or his pet will throw up or poop all over the place, so he shoots. As a result of standing still, the ork is actually in the best possible firing position (at least, for an ork), as he isn't running around, waving his arms, or generally being a boisterous ork.
So, even though the targeter squig doesn't actually 'target' the enemy, the behaviors that accompany the squig do benefit the ork's aim. As orks observe other orks using targeter squigs and being more accurate (for entirely the wrong reasons), a communal belief in the efficacy of targeter squigs arises in the orkish mind, to the extent that even in situations where the targeter squig should be of little help, an ork with one is measurably more accurate than one without.
See, it's not "Orks believe it so it's true!"
Well said, thought out and put...but ask yourself...do Orks think it impossible?
The whole "Templars have greater numbers than any other Chapter because they sacrifice quality for quantity, and their preferred mode of attack is to bumrush the enemy head-on, meaning their rate of attrition is really high" thing I've seen going on.
That Space Marines don't have penises. Please, I have no idea where this notion came from. Point me to the passage in the Holy Writ of 40k where it EXPLICITLY states that they are built like Ken Dolls and have nothing left of their nether regions after becoming Space Marines.
Not "he lost his desire" or "the hypnosomatic conditioning makes them unable to copulate"
JUST TELL ME WHERE THE HECK IT SAYS THAT THEY REMOVE THE PENIS DURING SPACE MARINE SURGERIES BECAUSE I'M SO TIRED OF THAT STUPID MISCONCEPTION.
bocatt wrote: That Space Marines don't have penises. Please, I have no idea where this notion came from. Point me to the passage in the Holy Writ of 40k where it EXPLICITLY states that they are built like Ken Dolls and have nothing left of their nether regions after becoming Space Marines.
Not "he lost his desire" or "the hypnosomatic conditioning makes them unable to copulate"
JUST TELL ME WHERE THE HECK IT SAYS THAT THEY REMOVE THE PENIS DURING SPACE MARINE SURGERIES BECAUSE I'M SO TIRED OF THAT STUPID MISCONCEPTION.
In fairness we don't know they do have penises...
So it's kinda like Schrodinger's Cat. Except a penis... Schrodinger's Penis.... Schrodinger's Space Penis.
Due to Schrodinger's Space Penis SM do and not not have penises...
I've only ever heard that one once. Is it really a common idea?
It really makes no sense to remove the penis. THe scrotum, yes, but there's no bioscientific reason to remove the penis itself. It doesn't affect the body except in gender dysphorics, and it's damn useful for peeing standing up.
purplefood wrote:
So it's kinda like Schrodinger's Cat. Except a penis... Schrodinger's Penis.... Schrodinger's Space Penis.
Due to Schrodinger's Space Penis SM do and not not have penises...
And who says 40k doesn't hold to real physics!
Furyou Miko wrote:I've only ever heard that one once. Is it really a common idea?
It really makes no sense to remove the penis. THe scrotum, yes, but there's no bioscientific reason to remove the penis itself. It doesn't affect the body except in gender dysphorics, and it's damn useful for peeing standing up.
There's no zipper I can see. Personally I've always assumed the inside of Power Armour is just a write-off.
That the Eldar are a true enemy of humanity. If humanity would have listened to Eldrad leading up to the Heresy, maybe the Eldar wouldn't think your race to be as stupid as it is.
purplefood wrote:
So it's kinda like Schrodinger's Cat. Except a penis... Schrodinger's Penis.... Schrodinger's Space Penis.
Due to Schrodinger's Space Penis SM do and not not have penises...
And who says 40k doesn't hold to real physics!
Furyou Miko wrote:I've only ever heard that one once. Is it really a common idea?
It really makes no sense to remove the penis. THe scrotum, yes, but there's no bioscientific reason to remove the penis itself. It doesn't affect the body except in gender dysphorics, and it's damn useful for peeing standing up.
There's no zipper I can see. Personally I've always assumed the inside of Power Armour is just a write-off.
Why would power armour need a zipper? Pretty sure it's canonical that it has waste removal systems (endless battle sometimes doesn't allow a warrior time to take off their equipment so they can take a piss). I could be wrong though.
purplefood wrote:
So it's kinda like Schrodinger's Cat. Except a penis... Schrodinger's Penis.... Schrodinger's Space Penis.
Due to Schrodinger's Space Penis SM do and not not have penises...
And who says 40k doesn't hold to real physics!
Furyou Miko wrote:I've only ever heard that one once. Is it really a common idea?
It really makes no sense to remove the penis. THe scrotum, yes, but there's no bioscientific reason to remove the penis itself. It doesn't affect the body except in gender dysphorics, and it's damn useful for peeing standing up.
There's no zipper I can see. Personally I've always assumed the inside of Power Armour is just a write-off.
Why would power armour need a zipper? Pretty sure it's canonical that it has waste removal systems (endless battle sometimes doesn't allow a warrior time to take off their equipment so they can take a piss). I could be wrong though.
I know I've heard the same, I was replying to the bit about needing a penis to pee standing up, waste removal systems remove this need. Just being silly really.
Though I assume Plague Marines have disconnected such systems for their own reasons... actually maybe some Emperor's Children too, skat isn't just a sub-set of Jazz. after all. Sorry if anyone is eating.
Well, if you have ever changed a diaper, you'll know that most male children dont have a fully developed penis. If you take said child and increase his size without increasing his penis size (I dont know that it happens, but if it does. Seems likely due to the artificial nature of the space marines) it would be almost unnoticable underneath all the hair growth (they have beards why not pubes).
And, their suits are designed to recycle waste so they must have some sort of hookup (perhaps part of the black carapace)
Farseer Faenyin wrote: That the Eldar are a true enemy of humanity. If humanity would have listened to Eldrad leading up to the Heresy, maybe the Eldar wouldn't think your race to be as stupid as it is.
Eldrad has a poor track record of doing anything anyways, all his plannings usually failed and the one thing he did good he got killed over.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: That the Eldar are a true enemy of humanity. If humanity would have listened to Eldrad leading up to the Heresy, maybe the Eldar wouldn't think your race to be as stupid as it is.
Eldrad has a poor track record of doing anything anyways, all his plannings usually failed and the one thing he did good he got killed over.
Not anymore since GW retconned that all away.
Which begs the question did they retcon because GW hates us? Or because whiny ass Imperial players and Elder players got butthurt over losing the war and a SC?
(Despite the accusatory tone I'm actually asking I stopped playing right after Eye of Terror and got back in last year)
They retconned because they like the fall of Cadia as the 'precipice of disaster'. It's part of the whole 'Five minutes to Death' aspect of 5th/6th edition 40k. The timeline is literally frozen just before Eldrad boards the Blackstone Fortress.
Lots of misconceptions about Sisters of Battle. No, they don't lose every battle. (thought GW loves to pretend they do.) They're not inquisitors. The Cain novels had no basis in "reality" in their portrayal of SOB. (Drinking, smoking, sex, whatever else.) Pleasure of any type (except purging enemies) is their antithesis.
And I still think St. Celistine and other saints like her are essentially the Emperor's version of Demon Princes.
Lots of misconceptions about Sisters of Battle. No, they don't lose every battle. (thought GW loves to pretend they do.) They're not inquisitors. The Cain novels had no basis in "reality" in their portrayal of SOB. (Drinking, smoking, sex, whatever else.) Pleasure of any type (except purging enemies) is their antithesis.
Isn't that the misconception? Sisters don't hate pleasure. The Cain novels had the one Sister Superior who enjoyed gambling, cigars and had a relationship with one of the Schola's administrators. They're not Catholic nuns or Redemptionist zealots (the latter really do see pleasure = sin); they don't take vows of abstinence. They shun excess, of course, but aside from Codex: Sororitas, I've read much of the Sisters fluff. I've never come across anything that portrayed them this way. They serve the Emperor and focus this service heavily. They're disciplined, dedicated warriors who live an ascetic lifestyle... but that's a far cry from seeing pleasure as diametrically opposed to their own existence (which is what antithesis implies).
bocatt wrote: That Space Marines don't have penises. Please, I have no idea where this notion came from. Point me to the passage in the Holy Writ of 40k where it EXPLICITLY states that they are built like Ken Dolls and have nothing left of their nether regions after becoming Space Marines.
I do not know if Marines are build like Ken dolls, but that would not surprise me. Why ? Because that would explain where the exalted C'tan got its inspiration for its physical form .
The Ken C'tan.
In one of the older codices it showed a Sister Superior using a pin with spikes on it because it reminded her that anything worth doing is worth suffering for. In the new codex it describes how many sisters purposfully go into the Repentia as a way of increasing their suffering. Every fluff I've read shows them to be very spartan and anti-pleasure...except the Cain novels. Hmmm....
And yes, they are fanatical zealots.
kingleir wrote: Well, if you have ever changed a diaper, you'll know that most male children dont have a fully developed penis. If you take said child and increase his size without increasing his penis size (I dont know that it happens, but if it does. Seems likely due to the artificial nature of the space marines) it would be almost unnoticable underneath all the hair growth (they have beards why not pubes).
)
Most male children generally don't wear nappies and the recruiting age for SM can vary depending on what source you use. Some have it 10 or 11 while others push it higher to 14 or 15
The Sororitas are so fanatic and zealous, they manifest acts of faith/miracles. That goes beyond being just dedicated. the Cain novels are really really Off the mark compared to all the other fluff out there.
Furyou Miko wrote: They retconned because they like the fall of Cadia as the 'precipice of disaster'. It's part of the whole 'Five minutes to Death' aspect of 5th/6th edition 40k. The timeline is literally frozen just before Eldrad boards the Blackstone Fortress.
Wasn't there something about people reporting hundreds of games that didn't exist as well? As in, we're not sure who actually won because people were being bell-ends?
Lots of misconceptions about Sisters of Battle. No, they don't lose every battle. (thought GW loves to pretend they do.) They're not inquisitors. The Cain novels had no basis in "reality" in their portrayal of SOB. (Drinking, smoking, sex, whatever else.) Pleasure of any type (except purging enemies) is their antithesis.
Isn't that the misconception? Sisters don't hate pleasure. The Cain novels had the one Sister Superior who enjoyed gambling, cigars and had a relationship with one of the Schola's administrators. They're not Catholic nuns or Redemptionist zealots (the latter really do see pleasure = sin); they don't take vows of abstinence. They shun excess, of course, but aside from Codex: Sororitas, I've read much of the Sisters fluff. I've never come across anything that portrayed them this way. They serve the Emperor and focus this service heavily. They're disciplined, dedicated warriors who live an ascetic lifestyle... but that's a far cry from seeing pleasure as diametrically opposed to their own existence (which is what antithesis implies).
No. As their various Codices state, they are a penitent order of religious zealots, who spend all of their time in training and prayer. Many of them are flagellants, or wear hair shirts under their PA, or other extreme practices of religious devotion. They deny themselves pleasure (of any kind) to bring themselves closer to the God-Emperor. "Cleave only unto the Emperor" and such, as is noted in the various sidebars.
Really, I'm surprised that so many people seem to think that the Sisters are just allowed to gamble, have sex, ect. They're not just religious enthusiasts, they're extremists.
I guess it's some combination of the studio fluff being under-exposed and the Cain novels being so popular and liked.
GW don't think their target audience is mature enough to mention willies and boobies and fannys anymore. (oh how i miss "sexy" daemonettes compared to the dominatrix bikers they are now) but as a result they will never touch on the space marine penis conundrum, It makes sense to me that they do not have them since they are a significant weakness (even if they are encased in power armour, plus, getting a stalk on in that suit would be all kinds of uncomfortable)
they certainly have no sexual desire, thus rendering the cock and balls obsolete, so why not remove them? It doesn't really matter either way, but GW fluff will never directly address the issue. No need to be annoyed if someone says they don't, marines aren;t gonna be using ther cocks anyway even if they do have them.
I think Necron fluff misconceptions are understandable since the MASSIVE fluff overhaul they got. I still thought they where mindless roboslaves who killed for the c'tan who rules them (that may even have been wrong for their last edition)
The bulk of their current numbers are beholden to their Phaerons, and might have some C'Tan shards around, like Pokemons, but are no longer slaves to them.
The Warriors and such are all still slaves to the Phaerons that hold their command protocols, though, so nothing has changed there, as far as the silent-killer-robots-of-death go... but the race, in the main, has overthrown their C'Tan masters.
That isn't to say that there cannot be a few hold-out C'Tan, and their pawns, scattered amongst the stars, which the ancient Necron empire once ruled.
Isn't that the misconception? Sisters don't hate pleasure. The Cain novels had the one Sister Superior who enjoyed gambling, cigars and had a relationship with one of the Schola's administrators. They're not Catholic nuns or Redemptionist zealots (the latter really do see pleasure = sin); they don't take vows of abstinence. They shun excess, of course, but aside from Codex: Sororitas, I've read much of the Sisters fluff. I've never come across anything that portrayed them this way. They serve the Emperor and focus this service heavily. They're disciplined, dedicated warriors who live an ascetic lifestyle... but that's a far cry from seeing pleasure as diametrically opposed to their own existence (which is what antithesis implies).
Pleasure leads to excess, excess leads to Chaos.
The Sisterhood don't specifically hate the concept of pleasure, but they do make sure that they have no time for it, and do not indulge it. A Sister's day is built around praying, training, and worshipping the God-Emperor. They know that they do not deserve pleasure. They deserve only suffering for their part in the Reign of Blood.
Pleasure is diametrically opposed to their own existence because they are still paying for their sins five thousand years ago. Pleasure isn't the problem inherently. It's just the opposite of what is important.
Wyzilla wrote: Abdaddon has no arms and is a failure. Probably the most annoying meme in W40K fandom that has been so warped a lot of people don't even know why it started in the first place.
My guess would be he's failed so many times people thing he's harmles. Someone miss-overheard the disscussion and believed they where saying he was armless. The person went away and went on the net, and thus the chinese whispers began.
No, only one Black Crusade has failed. Every single other won has achieved its objective, including the Thirteenth, as it broke the Cadian Gate. The meme that "Abaddon has no arms" started because the arms on the Resin figure are waaaay too big, and have a habit of falling off if you just use superglue.
Wyzilla wrote: Abdaddon has no arms and is a failure. Probably the most annoying meme in W40K fandom that has been so warped a lot of people don't even know why it started in the first place.
My guess would be he's failed so many times people thing he's harmles. Someone miss-overheard the disscussion and believed they where saying he was armless. The person went away and went on the net, and thus the chinese whispers began.
No, only one Black Crusade has failed. Every single other won has achieved its objective, including the Thirteenth, as it broke the Cadian Gate. The meme that "Abaddon has no arms" started because the arms on the Resin figure are waaaay too big, and have a habit of falling off if you just use superglue.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: That the Eldar are a true enemy of humanity. If humanity would have listened to Eldrad leading up to the Heresy, maybe the Eldar wouldn't think your race to be as stupid as it is.
Eldrad has a poor track record of doing anything anyways, all his plannings usually failed and the one thing he did good he got killed over.
Not anymore since GW retconned that all away.
Which begs the question did they retcon because GW hates us? Or because whiny ass Imperial players and Elder players got butthurt over losing the war and a SC?
(Despite the accusatory tone I'm actually asking I stopped playing right after Eye of Terror and got back in last year)
That's rich. Eldar curb stomped CSM in their special duel warzone by the largest margin in the campaign. In return the top Eldar sc got killed. It was total BS. If things went off battle results then the 1k sons would be gone completely and ahriman would be a greasy spot on some Solitares cloak.
I think people think the eldar are either CWE or DE, whereas really its more of a continuum, with CWE and DE at the extremes. A large number of eldar, and especially the ones that humans have the most contact with, live in the middle of the spectrum.
A question regarding Space Marines and reproduction: Aren't there a few chapters that allow older Space Marines to retire and have families? I'm like 90% sure I read that at some point.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: That the Eldar are a true enemy of humanity. If humanity would have listened to Eldrad leading up to the Heresy, maybe the Eldar wouldn't think your race to be as stupid as it is.
Eldrad has a poor track record of doing anything anyways, all his plannings usually failed and the one thing he did good he got killed over.
Not anymore since GW retconned that all away.
Which begs the question did they retcon because GW hates us? Or because whiny ass Imperial players and Elder players got butthurt over losing the war and a SC?
(Despite the accusatory tone I'm actually asking I stopped playing right after Eye of Terror and got back in last year)
That's rich. Eldar curb stomped CSM in their special duel warzone by the largest margin in the campaign. In return the top Eldar sc got killed. It was total BS. If things went off battle results then the 1k sons would be gone completely and ahriman would be a greasy spot on some Solitares cloak.
Except for the fact that it was supposed to be CSM/Dark Eldar however DE were reporting their wins with the Eldar because they didn't like it, not to mention the fact that the Eldar players out-numbered most of the disorder forces in that sector due in part.
Um, no it was 1k sons vs. Ulthwe, which had their own specialy list at that time. Eldrad is Ulthwe, and DE were allowed to put their wins in with CWE, since the battlezone was the freaking webway. Not allowing them to throw their wins in the hat is like not allowing imperials to participate in a battle fought on terra.
How does outnumbering help if you have to have a 1 : 1 ratio to play a game between CSM and CWE? Did you invent a new type of math to make that possible?
This is all over looking the hella-broke CSM 3.5 codex.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: The whole "Templars have greater numbers than any other Chapter because they sacrifice quality for quantity, and their preferred mode of attack is to bumrush the enemy head-on, meaning their rate of attrition is really high" thing I've seen going on.
I think the high attrition rates are attributed to the Neophytes. Since they aren't used like regular scouts, and instead put in combat units with full Initiates, only the strongest ones survive the harsh fighting.
For a counter-example, here's my fluff idea for targeter squigs (as found on the Freebooter-looking Flash Git GW sells):
Targeter squigs are rotund, monocular, near-sighted squigs. They are reluctant to move, and prefer to sit immobile and wait for prey. When approached by a potential predator, the targeter squig emits a loud, piercing chirp, sounding much like an electronic ping or beep. If the predator continues to approach the squig, the targeter squig will continue to emit this unpleasant beeping, increasing in volume and frequency. If the predator approaches too closely to the squig, it will often vomit the contents of its stomach at the predator, void its bowels in the direction of the predator, or leap away awkwardly (and sometimes, all three).
Now, if an ork picks up a targeter squig, he's got a little pet that will sit on his shoulder. It's nearsighted, and has trouble with depth perception. If the ork is moving around, the squig will sometimes see something that alarms it, and emit a little panicked 'ping'. However, if the ork continues to move around, the squig might lose focus on the threat, and settle down, or see something else threatening. On the other hand, if the ork can muster up some concentration and stand fairly still, the targeter squig will focus on the prey and see it approaching. It will continue to ping and ping as the prey approaches. Ultimately, the squig will be emitting a panicked trill, if the enemy is fairly close. At this point, the ork knows that he had better shoot the enemy, or his pet will throw up or poop all over the place, so he shoots. As a result of standing still, the ork is actually in the best possible firing position (at least, for an ork), as he isn't running around, waving his arms, or generally being a boisterous ork.
So, even though the targeter squig doesn't actually 'target' the enemy, the behaviors that accompany the squig do benefit the ork's aim. As orks observe other orks using targeter squigs and being more accurate (for entirely the wrong reasons), a communal belief in the efficacy of targeter squigs arises in the orkish mind, to the extent that even in situations where the targeter squig should be of little help, an ork with one is measurably more accurate than one without.
How does outnumbering help if you have to have a 1 : 1 ratio to play a game between CSM and CWE? Did you invent a new type of math to make that possible?
The error you made is assuming that registered players were playing only against each other.
There was nothing requiring registered players to play only other registered players. A player could play an unregistered player (real or completely made up) and report only wins to the website, while not reporting any losses. There was no requirement that they had to play their designated opponent faction either, so an Eldar player could win against a Tyranid player but report the win to the Webway warzone claiming it was against Thousand Sons. Alternatively I know of some SM players playing SM vs SM and either way reporting it as an Imperial victory (since "obviously" the losing SM were heretical and Chaos). This means player population numbers in that campaign did matter, even if both sides had an equal proportion of cheaters.
For example, if there are 2000 Eldar players in the warzone and 1000 Thousand Son players, and 10% of all players cheated by reporting a false win, that would mean there would be 200 Eldar false wins and 100 Thousand Son false wins. Net effect: 100 extra Eldar victories reported that never really occurred. Taken over the course of a campaign, those repeated false wins would affect the course of the campaign. That is why player numbers mattered in the Eye of Terror campaign as GW only rooted out the blatantly obvious cheaters and there were many on both sides that surely slipped through.
However in the Eye of Terror campaign, there was another effect in place that allowed for the less numerous side to still win (though not in the Webway warzones). Search for my Eye of Terror campaign summary where I explain the campaign mechanics.
Who ever was saying the ork's phsychic ability bypasses physics; You cant really reference the laws of physics when talking about the 40k universe.
I personally believe the 'orks think it works and therefor it does' but i think its more that they have an inate ability to know what to do. In much the same way that painboys are born with the knowledge of which squirty tube connects to which wriggly bit. It means they have an instinct to know where the fighting is. To know how to shake the shoota in just the right way so that the next round goes into the chamber. To know how to make the crude rokkit fire in the general direction of the enemy. All things that someone from a lesser race would not be able to do makimg it appear like a phychic power from their perspective.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Salamanders, although it is doubtful that they created said families post-Marinification.
Salamanders maintain contact with their families post Marinification. AFAIK they don't produce offspring but every so often go home for a free meal off mum (Or Great grand Daughter as could be the case)
As I've said before, my take on the Ork latent psychic ability helping make weapons work is that it 'fills in any little gaps' as a result of non-standardised manufacturing processes, due to the imbued mechanical knowledge of Meks ensuring that they do things very much on the fly and on an individual basis. There's only so much it can fix but it will do a little bit within tolerances - the kind of behaviour gork & possibly mork describes is a good example of how it could work in practical terms for the more basic weaponry.
The stronger the belief among more Orks however, the larger the psychic effect becomes (as is seen with Weirdboys being focus points for the energy generated in a large Waaagh). This, imo in part explains the colour beliefs. There's no doubt that with for example Evil Sunz being obsessed with fast vehicles means that they would have them anyway, but the belief that painting their stuff red makes them go faster will be so strong it will likely have a minor effect too, whether in any particular instance it's because of behaviour via a placebo effect or taking on an actual physical nature. The 'problem' is in terms of the fluff, you could never hope to carry out an experiment to measure it in real terms of two identical trukks crewed by the same Orks other than the paint colour due to how anarchic they are, and as such it is suitably vague & open ended precisely how any observed effect comes about.
Hordini wrote: A question regarding Space Marines and reproduction: Aren't there a few chapters that allow older Space Marines to retire and have families? I'm like 90% sure I read that at some point.
Nah, some of them retire and perform other jobs for the chapter. Ultramarines use crippled or retired marines to perform duties across Ultramar.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Salamanders, although it is doubtful that they created said families post-Marinification.
Salamanders maintain contact with their families post Marinification. AFAIK they don't produce offspring but every so often go home for a free meal off mum (Or Great grand Daughter as could be the case)
Great grand Niece.
The whole point is they stay in contact with those who are blood-related to them, but they're related through siblings and cousins who were not selected to be marines.
I suppose in some cases it would be possible for a Space Marine who was selected relatively late to have a son or daughter who was born prior to the parent becoming a Space Marine though.
Yeah most chapters recruit those at the onset of puberty which does leave a window of opportunity (A very narrow one to be fair) for a Space marine recruit to father offspring. Also being male does mean you can knock up multiple people in a short period of time
Silverthorne wrote: Um, no it was 1k sons vs. Ulthwe, which had their own specialy list at that time. Eldrad is Ulthwe, and DE were allowed to put their wins in with CWE, since the battlezone was the freaking webway. Not allowing them to throw their wins in the hat is like not allowing imperials to participate in a battle fought on terra.
How does outnumbering help if you have to have a 1 : 1 ratio to play a game between CSM and CWE? Did you invent a new type of math to make that possible?
This is all over looking the hella-broke CSM 3.5 codex.
How does outnumbering help if you have to have a 1 : 1 ratio to play a game between CSM and CWE? Did you invent a new type of math to make that possible?
The error you made is assuming that registered players were playing only against each other.
There was nothing requiring registered players to play only other registered players. A player could play an unregistered player (real or completely made up) and report only wins to the website, while not reporting any losses. There was no requirement that they had to play their designated opponent faction either, so an Eldar player could win against a Tyranid player but report the win to the Webway warzone claiming it was against Thousand Sons. Alternatively I know of some SM players playing SM vs SM and either way reporting it as an Imperial victory (since "obviously" the losing SM were heretical and Chaos). This means player population numbers in that campaign did matter, even if both sides had an equal proportion of cheaters.
For example, if there are 2000 Eldar players in the warzone and 1000 Thousand Son players, and 10% of all players cheated by reporting a false win, that would mean there would be 200 Eldar false wins and 100 Thousand Son false wins. Net effect: 100 extra Eldar victories reported that never really occurred. Taken over the course of a campaign, those repeated false wins would affect the course of the campaign. That is why player numbers mattered in the Eye of Terror campaign as GW only rooted out the blatantly obvious cheaters and there were many on both sides that surely slipped through.
However in the Eye of Terror campaign, there was another effect in place that allowed for the less numerous side to still win (though not in the Webway warzones). Search for my Eye of Terror campaign summary where I explain the campaign mechanics.
Interesting.
My position is that the Eldar players won their campaign, and by a lot. Then as a 'reward' Eldrard was killed. That was unfair, and it makes sense that it was retconned.
I'm not partically sympathetic to people saying Chaos got screwed. The definitely didn't get boned as hard as the Eldar.
I think aside from the moronic killing of Eldrad (when the Eldar should have been rewarded for their crushing victory, maybe by not killing their most important character) the big problem was that background wise, BFG had to be made way more important, although a much, much smaller fraction of people play it. It's kinda like Hollywood's treatment of Guadalcanal: everyone focuses on the Marines but the battles at sea were what really determined things. Since so many chaos players didn't play BFG, they felt like there was a deus ex machina moment where the Navy pulled everything out of the lurch at the last minute for the Imperials. But they should have considered that in their larger strategy. The forces of order won in space by a large margin, and space battles are ultimately many orders of magnitude more important than land battles.
How does outnumbering help if you have to have a 1 : 1 ratio to play a game between CSM and CWE? Did you invent a new type of math to make that possible?
The error you made is assuming that registered players were playing only against each other.
There was nothing requiring registered players to play only other registered players. A player could play an unregistered player (real or completely made up) and report only wins to the website, while not reporting any losses. There was no requirement that they had to play their designated opponent faction either, so an Eldar player could win against a Tyranid player but report the win to the Webway warzone claiming it was against Thousand Sons. Alternatively I know of some SM players playing SM vs SM and either way reporting it as an Imperial victory (since "obviously" the losing SM were heretical and Chaos). This means player population numbers in that campaign did matter, even if both sides had an equal proportion of cheaters.
For example, if there are 2000 Eldar players in the warzone and 1000 Thousand Son players, and 10% of all players cheated by reporting a false win, that would mean there would be 200 Eldar false wins and 100 Thousand Son false wins. Net effect: 100 extra Eldar victories reported that never really occurred. Taken over the course of a campaign, those repeated false wins would affect the course of the campaign. That is why player numbers mattered in the Eye of Terror campaign as GW only rooted out the blatantly obvious cheaters and there were many on both sides that surely slipped through.
However in the Eye of Terror campaign, there was another effect in place that allowed for the less numerous side to still win (though not in the Webway warzones). Search for my Eye of Terror campaign summary where I explain the campaign mechanics.
Interesting.
My position is that the Eldar players won their campaign, and by a lot. Then as a 'reward' Eldrard was killed. That was unfair, and it makes sense that it was retconned.
I'm not partically sympathetic to people saying Chaos got screwed. The definitely didn't get boned as hard as the Eldar.
I think aside from the moronic killing of Eldrad (when the Eldar should have been rewarded for their crushing victory, maybe by not killing their most important character) the big problem was that background wise, BFG had to be made way more important, although a much, much smaller fraction of people play it. It's kinda like Hollywood's treatment of Guadalcanal: everyone focuses on the Marines but the battles at sea were what really determined things. Since so many chaos players didn't play BFG, they felt like there was a deus ex machina moment where the Navy pulled everything out of the lurch at the last minute for the Imperials. But they should have considered that in their larger strategy. The forces of order won in space by a large margin, and space battles are ultimately many orders of magnitude more important than land battles.
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote: Yeah most chapters recruit those at the onset of puberty which does leave a window of opportunity (A very narrow one to be fair) for a Space marine recruit to father offspring. Also being male does mean you can knock up multiple people in a short period of time
The processes and implants a recruit goes through don't erase the normal developement of the body, and absolutely never in the stages castration or anything similar is included.
Iirc, in The Emperor's Gift the lady inquisitor (... Inquisitrix?) happens to see a GK marine in the common showers and sighs for the "lack of use" of what she sees.
And it is logical. A spacemarine needs testosterone levels, so he needs his gonads, for hormone levels affect also the muscle and fat distribution in the body.
And in the transformation stages there are just additions of cells and/or new organs.
The fact that space marines never engage in intimate activities is mostly for the monastic structure of their chapters (and I suspect they never had "the talk about bees and flowers")
Considering the pure physical size of marines (and I'm not even guessing or talking about the size of certain organs in that region) I can't actually imagine it being a pleasant experience for women anyway, it may actually leave them incapable of bearing children....
Pretty sure a GW employee on Reddit confirmed that Marines still have their equipment, they just don't have the desire to use it. Uriel Ventris and Ragnar in their respective books are noted as describing various women as attractive. Marines are indoctrinated to be borderline psychotic killing machines though and generally have little time for love.
In relation to ork's: that squig is absolutely brilliant.
Salamanders: I always assumed that they would "visit" relatives in the sence of meeting say neice or nethew + however many greats.
Marine gonads: he he he...
I would assume that there is nothing uhhh removed, but that marines have little to no communication with women. In HORUS RISING loken openly admitts that he has little experience with women.
Formosa wrote: The deceiver is a shard, that's a misconception too, thankfully the cypher dex cleared that one up
Can you elaborate on this for me please? The Deceiver is my favourite 40k character and my Necrons paint scheme is even based off of his colour palette! I haven't read the cypher data slate and no one around me has it (to my knowledge).
How does outnumbering help if you have to have a 1 : 1 ratio to play a game between CSM and CWE? Did you invent a new type of math to make that possible?
The error you made is assuming that registered players were playing only against each other.
There was nothing requiring registered players to play only other registered players. A player could play an unregistered player (real or completely made up) and report only wins to the website, while not reporting any losses. There was no requirement that they had to play their designated opponent faction either, so an Eldar player could win against a Tyranid player but report the win to the Webway warzone claiming it was against Thousand Sons. Alternatively I know of some SM players playing SM vs SM and either way reporting it as an Imperial victory (since "obviously" the losing SM were heretical and Chaos). This means player population numbers in that campaign did matter, even if both sides had an equal proportion of cheaters.
For example, if there are 2000 Eldar players in the warzone and 1000 Thousand Son players, and 10% of all players cheated by reporting a false win, that would mean there would be 200 Eldar false wins and 100 Thousand Son false wins. Net effect: 100 extra Eldar victories reported that never really occurred. Taken over the course of a campaign, those repeated false wins would affect the course of the campaign. That is why player numbers mattered in the Eye of Terror campaign as GW only rooted out the blatantly obvious cheaters and there were many on both sides that surely slipped through.
However in the Eye of Terror campaign, there was another effect in place that allowed for the less numerous side to still win (though not in the Webway warzones). Search for my Eye of Terror campaign summary where I explain the campaign mechanics.
Interesting.
My position is that the Eldar players won their campaign, and by a lot. Then as a 'reward' Eldrard was killed. That was unfair, and it makes sense that it was retconned.
I'm not partically sympathetic to people saying Chaos got screwed. The definitely didn't get boned as hard as the Eldar.
I think aside from the moronic killing of Eldrad (when the Eldar should have been rewarded for their crushing victory, maybe by not killing their most important character) the big problem was that background wise, BFG had to be made way more important, although a much, much smaller fraction of people play it. It's kinda like Hollywood's treatment of Guadalcanal: everyone focuses on the Marines but the battles at sea were what really determined things. Since so many chaos players didn't play BFG, they felt like there was a deus ex machina moment where the Navy pulled everything out of the lurch at the last minute for the Imperials. But they should have considered that in their larger strategy. The forces of order won in space by a large margin, and space battles are ultimately many orders of magnitude more important than land battles.
Might want to take a read, considering Chaos went outside the Cadian gate by the end.
Thank you for quoting my summary.
Silverthorne, you are still under misconceptions about the way the campaign worked. There was no requirement for playing BFG to post results to the sector (i.e. space) warzones. The bulk of the wins reported were 40K games. The actual number of BFG games was only directly reported in the BFG magazine and they were a tiny fraction of the whole, and didn't do much to affect the outcome as there were several space warzones that had Chaos advantage in terms of BFG games but overall Imperial Control results in the larger campaign that were overwhelmingly Imperial. In other words, the sheer number of 40K game results reported drowned out any effect from actual BFG games.
I do not think this was a conscious strategy either by the Forces of Order, but simply the result of many people not bothering to examine the campaign map further or zooming in to planetary wrazones and just dumping their wins into the highest level warzone which were the sector level ones. I have personally met players that were completely unaware there were even system or planetary warzones available or had just assumed posting to Cadia Sector meant the same as posting to Cadia the planet.
Also GW has defined the 40K warfare paradigm as one in which space is not more important than planetary battles. It has a role and that is why it was a Chaos minor victory not a major victory, but it was not enough to save the Imperials from defeat. In fact, during the campaign newsletters there was even a warning to Imperial players to take the initiative at the planetary level (as sector Imperial Control kept soaring while planetary ones kept plunging), so the weighting was favoring the planetary warzones. Black Library's 13th Black Crusade book even has a statement by the in-character writer stating that no space blockade is airtight and there would always be some smuggling through of supplies or reinforcements. In short, 40K space warfare is not the be all and end all of warfare.
The two sides that were most "screwed" were Chaos and the Eldar. The Eldar easily won against the Thousand Sons because the Dark Eldar players also chose to side with the Craftworld Eldar (despite GW lumping the DE with the Thosuand Sons), even to the point of posting only losses. This meant you had one of the most numerous xenos factions in terms of players against a niche less numerous Chaos faction in a series of warzones that had no room for the threshold effect (see my summary link for explanation of this). So of course they won. Nonetheless, the Eldar did deserve more considering the magnitude of their victory, and the only positive they seemed to get in the final writeup was the return of Altansar. Chaos was "screwed" because Andy Chambers had promised background change depending on which side won the campaign. The less numerous Forces of Disorder figured out the threshold effect and used it to enable the less numerous Forces of Disorder to win against the more numerous Forces of Order, yet GW then backed away from the promise of background change, and to this day there are Imperial players in outright denial either trying to downplay or whitewash the defeat into something else. That is just plain poor sportsmanship. If you lose, take it with some grace and try again next time just as one would with a regular 40K game. It is of note that there is nowhere near the same amount of "controversy" or denialism when it comes to the Armageddon 3 or Medusa campaign (draw leaning in favor of Imperials and Imperial win respectively). It is only with the campaign where the Imperials lost.
I think Silverthorne's point is that space battles should have a much bigger impact on something like that than they did. You can win ground battles when you can;t get to the ground, but i guess nothing gets in the way of forging the narrative.
EmilCrane wrote: I think Silverthorne's point is that space battles should have a much bigger impact on something like that than they did. You can win ground battles when you can;t get to the ground, but i guess nothing gets in the way of forging the narrative.
Considering how big space is, how are you going to police every sector 100% to keep them all safe from incursions, smugglers, and generally faster ships?
EmilCrane wrote: I think Silverthorne's point is that space battles should have a much bigger impact on something like that than they did. You can win ground battles when you can;t get to the ground, but i guess nothing gets in the way of forging the narrative.
Considering how big space is, how are you going to police every sector 100% to keep them all safe from incursions, smugglers, and generally faster ships?
You don't have to, you only have to police shipping lanes and area around planets where you might actually get attacked, no point in policing cold space, nothing out there. Besides, its not like the Imperial Navy saild around like in the days of Nelson and visually acquires targets, they've got long range scanners and so forth.
There is no such thing as should when it comes to a fictional science fantasy universe paradigm of war. Past analogies to sea going paradigms are not indicative necessarily of how things would work. Paradigms of war change. Someone with only experience of medieval knight warfare could equally argue that depictions of warfare with infantry firing ranged weapons and overcoming cavalry is not how things should work. There was a time when infantry outmatched cavalry, then cavalry outmatched infantry, then infantry again overtaking cavalry. Weapons and defensive measures have equally been in competition throughout history with the balance changing over time.
In 40K, space power is not supreme because scanners are not foolproof, and because ships themselves are reliant on base facilities for resupply and repair. Planetary defense systems pack more firepower at a lower cost than spaceships, as shown by the BFG rules themselves. Then as Andy Chambers said to Imperial players trying to convince him at a convention why the Imperium should have been declared the official winner of the campaign, "Daemons and warp gates". Many of the races of 40K have unconventional means of travel, reinforcement, and supply so space power is not some automatic "I win" button.
Again none of these arguments of how things "should" be ever occur with all the other campaigns GW has run, as the Imperium as won all of the others. Only with the single one where the Imperium has lost do suddenly all these objections and rationalizations suddenly get raised.
Despite everything including the kind of lame Medusa campaign, I wish they would do another one. Now that BFG no longer exists they won't have to do any mental gymnastics to explain away various space related impossibilities. Which where even more ridiculous in Medusa than EoT.
ace101 wrote: They may be daemon princes, but the Greater Daemons are the Primarchs...
Well, no, I am pretty sure Mortarion, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar, Perturabo and Magnus are all daemon princes. And definitely not of the Emperor. The other primarch are certainly not demonic at all, since they died.
Saint Celestine seem to never ever die. Or rather, it seems to some people that instead of dying she is just temporarily banished into the warp, like daemons do when they are beaten into realspace, and then come back again.
And she is best compared to daemon princes than any other daemon because she, likely, in the same fashion as the daemon prince, was human before reaching her new daemon status.
I see this all the time for some reason. The actual statement is that they have very little presence in the warp, not no presence. No presence is what happens when you get a pariah or a blank, which Tau are absolutely NOT. It also would mean that Tau have almost no emotions at all, when in fact they are merely somewhat less emotional than everyone else.
There are several fluff pieces that simply couldn't have happened if the Tau had absolutely zero presence in the warp and were soulless. Their very first novel Fire Warrior delving into it quite a bit but it's still touched on here and there in other places. And there's a detailed article describing their souls as akin to "cookie crumbs" to a daemon, but again, there is a HUGE world of a difference between "cookie crumb" and "nothing at all".
stargasm wrote: they certainly have no sexual desire, thus rendering the cock and balls obsolete, so why not remove them? It doesn't really matter either way, but GW fluff will never directly address the issue. No need to be annoyed if someone says they don't, marines aren;t gonna be using ther cocks anyway even if they do have them.
Testosterone production which is a great hormone to keep around if you want aggressive warriors....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TiamatRoar wrote: It also would mean that Tau have almost no emotions at all, when in fact they are merely somewhat less emotional than everyone else.
That's a misconception right there as Blanks have been shown to have emotions (namely in Eisenhorn which had was used for fluffy flavor bits in Codex: Witch Hunters during 3rd so I count it as canon).
I think the misconception of Space marines having no reproductive organs stems from the original fluff pictures, where the black carapace covered the whole groin, and because the carapace is permanent, people assumed they must eunuchs.
Silverthorne wrote: Um, no it was 1k sons vs. Ulthwe, which had their own specialy list at that time. Eldrad is Ulthwe, and DE were allowed to put their wins in with CWE, since the battlezone was the freaking webway. Not allowing them to throw their wins in the hat is like not allowing imperials to participate in a battle fought on terra.
How does outnumbering help if you have to have a 1 : 1 ratio to play a game between CSM and CWE? Did you invent a new type of math to make that possible?
This is all over looking the hella-broke CSM 3.5 codex.
Even in 3.5 Thousand Sons were still awful.
The eternal curse of Tzeentch loyal chaos space marines is to suck grox balls in every edition they appear in.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the pure physical size of marines (and I'm not even guessing or talking about the size of certain organs in that region) I can't actually imagine it being a pleasant experience for women anyway, it may actually leave them incapable of bearing children....
Space Marines are 7'6" on average. That's not outside the realm of human possibility, as there are plenty of modern-day basketball players that near that height, if not match it. There's nothing magical about the height that makes your Little Marine suddenly incompatible with human anatomy.
Let's be honest, your dick isn't going to be bigger than a human child.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the pure physical size of marines (and I'm not even guessing or talking about the size of certain organs in that region) I can't actually imagine it being a pleasant experience for women anyway, it may actually leave them incapable of bearing children....
Space Marines are 7'6" on average. That's not outside the realm of human possibility, as there are plenty of modern-day basketball players that near that height, if not match it. There's nothing magical about the height that makes your Little Marine suddenly incompatible with human anatomy.
Let's be honest, your dick isn't going to be bigger than a human child.
When you say that, do you mean that the space marine's phallus would not be as large as a whole human child, or his phallus would not be as large as that of a human child's?
This can only be proven if Ron Jeremy's geneseed is used to make a marine chapter and so the shaft chapter was created famous for their insertion techniques and their problem of fitting into power armor!
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the pure physical size of marines (and I'm not even guessing or talking about the size of certain organs in that region) I can't actually imagine it being a pleasant experience for women anyway, it may actually leave them incapable of bearing children....
Space Marines are 7'6" on average. That's not outside the realm of human possibility, as there are plenty of modern-day basketball players that near that height, if not match it. There's nothing magical about the height that makes your Little Marine suddenly incompatible with human anatomy.
Let's be honest, your dick isn't going to be bigger than a human child.
When you say that, do you mean that the space marine's phallus would not be as large as a whole human child, or his phallus would not be as large as that of a human child's?
I need clarification for academic reasons.
Yeah, I was about to bite down on my pizza when I though ''Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a minute does he mean a SM junk can be the size of a ki- ooooooh boy''
"The Inquisition make stupid mistakes and gak things up!"
There is no "The Inquisition" in the sense of a unified force working together.
Individual Inquisitors are free to pursue their agendas as they will. One Inquisitor deciding to evacuate civilians from a warp-tained planet and thus infecting an entire star system is not 'The Inquisition being stupid', it is the action of a single person.
Also the nature of the Ordos. The Ordo Xenos is not an army of alien hunters. Ordo Xenos Inquisitor is a name taken by Inquisitors who happen to specialise in dealing with xenos and have made alliances with other like-minded Inquisitors.
Also the nature of the Ordos. The Ordo Xenos is not an army of alien hunters. Ordo Xenos Inquisitor is a name taken by Inquisitors who happen to specialise in dealing with xenos and have made alliances with other like-minded Inquisitors.
Actually, THAT is a misconception. Codex: Inquisition certainly treats the various Ordos as entities in their own right, as opposed to just a gathering of like-minded individuals.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the pure physical size of marines (and I'm not even guessing or talking about the size of certain organs in that region) I can't actually imagine it being a pleasant experience for women anyway, it may actually leave them incapable of bearing children....
Space Marines are 7'6" on average. That's not outside the realm of human possibility, as there are plenty of modern-day basketball players that near that height, if not match it. There's nothing magical about the height that makes your Little Marine suddenly incompatible with human anatomy.
Let's be honest, your dick isn't going to be bigger than a human child.
It wasn't about it fitting, I'm sure it would... The problems I imagine come from the fact you have a 300-500kg guy, who has the strength and power of a small tank, has the dick... Can you really imagine a space marine, a guy who has been purposely crafted into a human weapon being gentle? And that's assuming the process doesn't enhance the growth of his wang either, the thing could be a foot long and have the girth of a coke can for all we know...
Also the nature of the Ordos. The Ordo Xenos is not an army of alien hunters. Ordo Xenos Inquisitor is a name taken by Inquisitors who happen to specialise in dealing with xenos and have made alliances with other like-minded Inquisitors.
Actually, THAT is a misconception. Codex: Inquisition certainly treats the various Ordos as entities in their own right, as opposed to just a gathering of like-minded individuals.
From dark heresy, you belong to an ordo, but mostly you belong to a conclave. Conclaves have inquisitors belonging to different ordos working as a group.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: The problems I imagine come from the fact you have a 300-500kg guy, who has the strength and power of a small tank, has the dick... Can you really imagine a space marine, a guy who has been purposely crafted into a human weapon being gentle?
Well....actually, thanks to SisterSydney, I kinda can.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Salamanders, although it is doubtful that they created said families post-Marinification.
Salamanders maintain contact with their families post Marinification. AFAIK they don't produce offspring but every so often go home for a free meal off mum (Or Great grand Daughter as could be the case)
I think that in itself is a misconception. From what I've read of the Salamanders, which I won't say is completely exhaustive - but I've read a good deal of Salamanders fluff both old and new, the Salamanders don't 'go home' in the common sense of going back for a cuppa and a catch up. Rather, Salamanders live within the communes of Nocturne as community elders, dispensing knowledge and advice throughout the community as well as safeguarding it. They don't raise families or go back for free meals (I know you probably didn't mean this in a literal sense).
Now, this next bit is purely my own conjecture, but it's more likely as well that, due to indoctrination, they aren't posted back to the same village they were raised from. Due to indoctrination smothering memories and emotions (Although Salamanders are known to have a far greater degree empathy and emotional attachment to humanity), they would recall little of their original family, and hence it would avail them of little use (other than upsetting said family) if they went back to their original commune - again, that's just my theory though.
BrotherHaraldus wrote:Saying they are 7' 6" is not the whole truth.
I have seen them be described as everything between six and nine feet.
I always consider the following to be approximately true (All dependent on natural variety of course):
Astartes un-armoured: Just above 7ft
Astartes in Power Armour: Between 7 and 8ft.
Astartes in Terminator Armour: 8ft
Primarch in Power Armour: 8ft
Primarch in Terminator Armour: Anywhere between 8ft-9ft for 'Standard Primarchs' (Larger ones such as F.M or Vulkan may be in the 9-10ft region I guess)
I hesitate to put the Emperor into a category. I could say 10ft, but he wasn't an Astartes, rather a powerful entity in human form. I often think he'd be roughly Terminator sized - larger than an Astartes, but possibly smaller than his Primarch progeny.
I should also say that these heights are based on armour contours - the Astartes is still the same size in Terminator armour as he is in power armour, but the suit itself is taller - the same goes for Primarchs.
Happyjew wrote:
endlesswaltz123 wrote: The problems I imagine come from the fact you have a 300-500kg guy, who has the strength and power of a small tank, has the dick... Can you really imagine a space marine, a guy who has been purposely crafted into a human weapon being gentle?
Well....actually, thanks to SisterSydney, I kinda can.
That's actually a surprisingly good read - very well written
And we have gaktons of equally canon or noncanon sources that contradict that.
Anyway, I have a hard time imagining that a Primarch in PA would not be taller than a Terminator. The bigger things get downscaled models, and even then, the Primarch models are colossal.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the pure physical size of marines (and I'm not even guessing or talking about the size of certain organs in that region) I can't actually imagine it being a pleasant experience for women anyway, it may actually leave them incapable of bearing children....
Space Marines are 7'6" on average. That's not outside the realm of human possibility, as there are plenty of modern-day basketball players that near that height, if not match it. There's nothing magical about the height that makes your Little Marine suddenly incompatible with human anatomy.
Let's be honest, your dick isn't going to be bigger than a human child.
When you say that, do you mean that the space marine's phallus would not be as large as a whole human child, or his phallus would not be as large as that of a human child's?
BrotherHaraldus wrote: And we have gaktons of equally canon or noncanon sources that contradict that.
Anyway, I have a hard time imagining that a Primarch in PA would not be taller than a Terminator. The bigger things get downscaled models, and even then, the Primarch models are colossal.
Primarch's are of a different size then standard space marines.
The Cypher Dataslate mentions Cypher precipitating the capture of a Fallen DA warlord that had a harem of women? So, it must then possible that a Space Marine can have sexual desire and enjoy sexual intercourse? In the Dataslate story, the Fallen warlord may have been corrupted by Chaos but I don't remember.
I'm sure Slaanesh can give you all kinds of things...
In fact, in a bit of research over the past weekend into the Emperor's Children, I came across some *really* disturbing images on DeviantArt (no duh, right?) about certain... ah... let's call them "gifts" from Chaos.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Considering the pure physical size of marines (and I'm not even guessing or talking about the size of certain organs in that region) I can't actually imagine it being a pleasant experience for women anyway, it may actually leave them incapable of bearing children....
Space Marines are 7'6" on average. That's not outside the realm of human possibility, as there are plenty of modern-day basketball players that near that height, if not match it. There's nothing magical about the height that makes your Little Marine suddenly incompatible with human anatomy.
Let's be honest, your dick isn't going to be bigger than a human child.
When you say that, do you mean that the space marine's phallus would not be as large as a whole human child, or his phallus would not be as large as that of a human child's?
I need clarification for academic reasons.
Not as large as an entire human child.
You're still managing to miss the point entirely, in that the size of the dick may not be the problem, it would be the engine behind it. And, babies come out of a vagina, they don't go into it, and to come out of said vagina, takes a lot of hours of dilating, totally different to the process of having sex.
Psienesis wrote: I'm sure Slaanesh can give you all kinds of things...
In fact, in a bit of research over the past weekend into the Emperor's Children, I came across some *really* disturbing images on DeviantArt (no duh, right?) about certain... ah... let's call them "gifts" from Chaos.
Deviantart is becoming a scary place that is growing a more apt description of the site's name. I've seen the stuff you've probably seen. Some of it's meh, others are simply quite weird. This wonderful thing is probably worth all the eye-scarring images.
Spoiler:
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
to build on the above post here are some examples on people who might fall to slaneesh.
A scholar with really bad writers block might be driven to beg the heavens for an idea *cue slaneesh*
A planetary governour who has gone all dick-tator on his people and wants more power might prey for more power *cue slaneesh*
a gladiator who has never lost a fight, lays beaten in the dirt, a blade plunging to his neck. so obsessed is he with his own image, that he does not fear his own death, but rather the death of his fame. *cue slannesh*.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Spoiler:
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the
T fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
Tau codex, page 11. under T'au. I'l even add a pic for your convenience.
Spoiler:
See, I told you it's a common misconception . If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
It's no longer the symbol for the T'au Sept but it still is the symbol for the Tau Empire. Look here in the bottom right corner:
Spoiler:
The Tau really don't seem to have many fortress stations or orbital cities. I expected a lot more of those. I can only see about 5 orbital cities (which seem to be the wrong colour in the key) and there are only slighter more than 20 fortress stations.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Spoiler:
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the
T fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
Tau codex, page 11. under T'au. I'l even add a pic for your convenience.
Spoiler:
See, I told you it's a common misconception . If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
It's no longer the symbol for the T'au Sept but it still is the symbol for the Tau Empire. Look here in the bottom right corner:
Spoiler:
The Tau really don't seem to have many fortress stations or orbital cities. I expected a lot more of those. I can only see about 5 orbital cities (which seem to be the wrong colour in the key) and there are only slighter more than 20 fortress stations.
I think a sight mis-communication is our problem here. When I said tau empire I meant tau, as in the sept. Just m being silly .
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
Really now, no. This itself is such a major misconception that I absolutely hate this claim.
Did you forget Lucius, the 'perfection' of the perfect duel who constantly seeks to improve himself? He's been in a while, long before FFG took a crack at it.
Slaanesh is basically the god of:
Excess in all its forms (Lust, Gluttony, Pride, even down to emotions), Obsession, Passion, Perfection (That perfect painting, that beautiful music, the art of mastering the duelists blade), Pleasure, Decadence, and Self-Indulgence.
Just because the gods have been flanderized at times does NOT mean that old fluff is thrown out the window if it's not directly beaten out.
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
Really now, no. This itself is such a major misconception that I absolutely hate this claim.
Did you forget Lucius, the 'perfection' of the perfect duel who constantly seeks to improve himself? He's been in a while, long before FFG took a crack at it.
Slaanesh is basically the god of:
Excess in all its forms (Lust, Gluttony, Pride, even down to emotions), Obsession, Passion, Perfection (That perfect painting, that beautiful music, the art of mastering the duelists blade), Pleasure, Decadence, and Self-Indulgence.
Just because the gods have been flanderized at times does NOT mean that old fluff is thrown out the window if it's not directly beaten out.
Lucius is a single individual. The Tome of Excess builds largely off perfectionism for the entire supplement, which is a great deal more than the short blurbs on Lucius the Eternal.
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
Really now, no. This itself is such a major misconception that I absolutely hate this claim.
Did you forget Lucius, the 'perfection' of the perfect duel who constantly seeks to improve himself? He's been in a while, long before FFG took a crack at it.
Slaanesh is basically the god of:
Excess in all its forms (Lust, Gluttony, Pride, even down to emotions), Obsession, Passion, Perfection (That perfect painting, that beautiful music, the art of mastering the duelists blade), Pleasure, Decadence, and Self-Indulgence.
Just because the gods have been flanderized at times does NOT mean that old fluff is thrown out the window if it's not directly beaten out.
Lucius is a single individual. The Tome of Excess builds largely off perfectionism for the entire supplement, which is a great deal more than the short blurbs on Lucius the Eternal.
You mean besides the other chapters on "Slaves to Sensations" , Six Delights of Slaanesh, Myraid Excesses, and all that? It focuses on the general aspects of Slaanesh rather then one single aspect as you say.
There's also the fact that Lucius wasn't alone, there was books in the Realms of Chaos before describing Slaanesh and Obsession with Perfection, it's not a thing that just suddenly came about..
Psienesis wrote: The quest for perfection, in anything, is itself an obsession, and so falls into the portfolio of Slaanesh.
Exactly. Its not perfection that feeds Slaanesh; it is the obsession with perfection. Any obsession would feed Slaanesh. An obsession for sexual gratification, narcotic stimulus, material wealth, beauty, skill, or tasty snack cakes would all feed Slaanesh. But a perfect tasty snack cake alone would not feed Slaanesh... it would be the obsessive, all-consuming pursuit of a perfect snack cake that would actually feed Slaanesh.
I mean in the figurative sense. Slaanesh isn't going to actually eat the tasty snack cake.
Exactly. Its not perfection that feeds Slaanesh; it is the obsession with perfection. Any obsession would feed Slaanesh. An obsession for sexual gratification, narcotic stimulus, material wealth, beauty, skill, or tasty snack cakes would all feed Slaanesh. But a perfect tasty snack cake alone would not feed Slaanesh... it would be the obsessive, all-consuming pursuit of a perfect snack cake that would actually feed Slaanesh.
I mean in the figurative sense. Slaanesh isn't going to actually eat the tasty snack cake.
Now I want to write about or convert a champion of Slaanesh who is an obsessive baker of delicious pastries of DOOM.
Here's an annoying myth: "Humans are the only race that Chaos can corrupt."
No. No they aren't. Chaos Gods aren't human gods. They exist because of a galaxy's worth of sentient races. First off, there are all the minor alien races in the fluff that have entirely turned to chaos like the Saruthi (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Saruthi#.Uzjl2PldVps) and the Laer (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Laer#.UzjmuvldVps). There are also instances of corrupted Orks (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Freebooter#.UzjnmvldVps) that are still canon. I've heard that there are references to a few Eldar Chaos Champions but I don't know the source. These races have more defense mechanisms than humans, but aren't immune.
The most persistent one is that the Tau are completely immune to Chaos. I don't know of any source that has actually stated this. The Tau have a very small warp presence, and therefore have a high level of resistance and aren't very appealing to daemons. There's no canon instances (although the events in Fire Warrior skirt the edge), but in theory they would not be above corruption.
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality) and the Necrons (cut off from the warp). Blanks and Pariahs in the human population are immune too, but they're not really a "race".
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality)
They cannot be 'tempted' however there was reports of Tyranids being 'Corrupted' 'Warp-tainted' and 'Mutated' by chaos.
Storm of Iron had an entire bioship corrupted, the old Daemonhunters book gave it as a reason for them to fight tyranids, and a few other sources that I wish I could remember.
And back in rogue trader/2nd genestealer cults could call on Chaos (Most likely retconned, as this was back in the days when you could get Khorne stormboys and all)
Yep. An individual Tyranid won't suddenly become a Champion of Chaos... but they can be exposed to enough of the raw essence of the Warp to mutate and then be cut-off from the Hive Mind (who cannot risk that spreading).
By the same token, though, get enough Tyranid in the area and the Shadow in the Warp can disrupt daemonic presences.
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality)
They cannot be 'tempted' however there was reports of Tyranids being 'Corrupted' 'Warp-tainted' and 'Mutated' by chaos.
Storm of Iron had an entire bioship corrupted, the old Daemonhunters book gave it as a reason for them to fight tyranids, and a few other sources that I wish I could remember.
And back in rogue trader/2nd genestealer cults could call on Chaos (Most likely retconned, as this was back in the days when you could get Khorne stormboys and all)
Back then, Genestealers and Tyranids weren't connected at all. Genestealers were a parasitic lifeform from the moon Ymgarl, while the heralds for the Tyranid invasion were the Zoats, a race of centaur-like beings who possessed both technology and individuality.
One thing that really annoys me is how people tend to overestimate the powers of the commisariat. Yes they have total jurisdiction within the guard and navy but they have no power elsewhere nor over any imperial civilian.
EmilCrane wrote: One thing that really annoys me is how people tend to overestimate the powers of the commisariat. Yes they have total jurisdiction within the guard and navy but they have no power elsewhere nor over any imperial civilian.
While they don't have authority over the other branches of military/government, they do have authority over Imperial citizens. ANY Imperial official has authority over Imperial citizens.
Da Butcha wrote: Orks are all psychically active at a low level means that if an ork believes something works, it does.
No. Just no.
Even if the premise is determined to be true in-game, the presence of low-level psychic activity in all orks does not imbue each and every ork with the ability to totally bypass physics, nor does it indicate that orks can simply choose to believe in something and make it work.
It's well established that all orks have some niggling level of psychic ability. That alone means that individual orkish belief isn't enough to 'empower' a device to ignore the laws of physics. One ork doesn't generate much psychic energy. They have a low-level of psychic power. They aren't Eldar.
On top of that, even if orks do psychically manifest by empowering items to bypass the laws of physics, that doesn't follow that orks can simply 'choose' to believe something so that it happens. Belief is a pretty complicated state of affairs, and humans (and, presumably orks) can't just turn it on at will. Given that orks believe 'red wunz go fasta', and red vehicles do move faster for orks, doesn't indicate that orks painted their vehicles red, then decided to believe that make them faster.
Presumably, this arose from a more complicated state of affairs. Perhaps the Evil Suns, who tend to like red colors, and who have a love of speed and a lot of meks, painted a lot of vehicles red. These vehicles might have been faster because they were driven by orks with an affinity for speed, or orks who chose to spend a lot of teef on making a fast vehicle. Then, after orks observed many Evil Suns vehicles (which both tended to be red, and tended to be fast), a widespread belief in 'red=fast' arose in the ork psychology.
It just makes me ill when some glib nitwit spouts some random, stupid idea and justifies it with "Well, if the orks believe it, then it actually happens, because psychics."
Spoiler:
For a counter-example, here's my fluff idea for targeter squigs (as found on the Freebooter-looking Flash Git GW sells):
Targeter squigs are rotund, monocular, near-sighted squigs. They are reluctant to move, and prefer to sit immobile and wait for prey. When approached by a potential predator, the targeter squig emits a loud, piercing chirp, sounding much like an electronic ping or beep. If the predator continues to approach the squig, the targeter squig will continue to emit this unpleasant beeping, increasing in volume and frequency. If the predator approaches too closely to the squig, it will often vomit the contents of its stomach at the predator, void its bowels in the direction of the predator, or leap away awkwardly (and sometimes, all three).
Now, if an ork picks up a targeter squig, he's got a little pet that will sit on his shoulder. It's nearsighted, and has trouble with depth perception. If the ork is moving around, the squig will sometimes see something that alarms it, and emit a little panicked 'ping'. However, if the ork continues to move around, the squig might lose focus on the threat, and settle down, or see something else threatening. On the other hand, if the ork can muster up some concentration and stand fairly still, the targeter squig will focus on the prey and see it approaching. It will continue to ping and ping as the prey approaches. Ultimately, the squig will be emitting a panicked trill, if the enemy is fairly close. At this point, the ork knows that he had better shoot the enemy, or his pet will throw up or poop all over the place, so he shoots. As a result of standing still, the ork is actually in the best possible firing position (at least, for an ork), as he isn't running around, waving his arms, or generally being a boisterous ork.
So, even though the targeter squig doesn't actually 'target' the enemy, the behaviors that accompany the squig do benefit the ork's aim. As orks observe other orks using targeter squigs and being more accurate (for entirely the wrong reasons), a communal belief in the efficacy of targeter squigs arises in the orkish mind, to the extent that even in situations where the targeter squig should be of little help, an ork with one is measurably more accurate than one without.
See, it's not "Orks believe it so it's true!"
I never said that if an Ork believes something it is automatically true, they have clearly had concepts of 'red wunz go fasta' for a very long time, and because they all believed in it they began painting their vehicles red, not the other way round. Nobody said that they can just believe in something and make it happen. For example Orks believe that the guns given to them should shoot, why wouldn't they? The average Ork Boy knows nothing of how a firing mechanism works, so as far as they're concerned the gun will shoot, and it does despite the fact that it shouldn't.
As I said, nobody claimed that Orks could 'choose' to believe or disbelieve something that suits them. They're not that smart
*Zero Strategy - Yes Orks are savages, but they do employ strategies. Its the misconception of the Imperium that they don't.
Example of Ork Strategy:
In the 13th Legion book(Last Chancers), an Imperial Fort on an Ice Death World is setup at the end of a ravine with an icy wasteland on the other side that no man could survive even with the best equipment. One of the Penal Legion soldiers yells at one of the commanding officers for thinking that the Orks were stupid enough to only attack from the ravine. Because unlike humans, an Ork boy can survive almost any environment. As such the fortress almost was destroyed by a pincer movement.
*Shokk Attack Gun fires grots/gretchin - Actually Grots are just smart enough to not want to get sucked up into it. Snottlings are used instead because they don't have any self preservation or intelligence.
*Orks think their machinery to work - This one might just be from my perspective. Orks know how their weapons work, so much so that even the most basic boy can make a gun out of scrap. Its the Imperium of Man that can't figure out how the gun actually works. Its easier for them to say Magic instead of admitting that the Orks have technological knowledge that the Mechanicum doesn't.
*All Orks are Speed Freaks - The Kult of Speed does appear in Ork Kulture, but while it is the case you'll get Orks that are interested going Fasta' not all Ork drivers/pilots are apart of it. Similar to how not all Orks carrying Rokkit Launchas are Tankbustas.
IIRC, Snotlings are trained to run through tunnels in the ground, then in battle, the Shokk Attack Gun opens up a tunnel through the Immaterium, the Snotlings run through (as trained) and come out insane.
Orks believing hard enough cause things to be true? Pure Imperial idiocy. Of course, with Yarrick he did get his laser eye because he had heard word that the Orks claimed he could kill with a look, so I guess that is one instance of Ork belief becoming true.
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality)
They cannot be 'tempted' however there was reports of Tyranids being 'Corrupted' 'Warp-tainted' and 'Mutated' by chaos.
Storm of Iron had an entire bioship corrupted, the old Daemonhunters book gave it as a reason for them to fight tyranids, and a few other sources that I wish I could remember.
And back in rogue trader/2nd genestealer cults could call on Chaos (Most likely retconned, as this was back in the days when you could get Khorne stormboys and all)
This reminded me to add this if it had been missed so far.
Being corrupted by chaos =/= falling to chaos.
One is being twisted and warped by a force out of your control while the other is willingly surrendering that control to the chaotic energies. I see it come up now and then.
This reminded me to add this if it had been missed so far.
Being corrupted by chaos =/= falling to chaos.
One is being twisted and warped by a force out of your control while the other is willingly surrendering that control to the chaotic energies. I see it come up now and then.
Sometimes, n0t, it feels like the only ones who care about this are Sisters players...
Nobody ever argues that Grey Knights are corruptible, even though they're immune to corruption but not falling, but dare to try and suggest a Sister is incorruptible? Ooooh, the arguments. Even though they're explicitly stated to never fall, people insist on using examples of corrupted (as in mutated and warped by exterior forces) sisters in Daemonifuge to prove that Sisters willingly fall left and right...
This reminded me to add this if it had been missed so far.
Being corrupted by chaos =/= falling to chaos.
One is being twisted and warped by a force out of your control while the other is willingly surrendering that control to the chaotic energies. I see it come up now and then.
Sometimes, n0t, it feels like the only ones who care about this are Sisters players...
Nobody ever argues that Grey Knights are corruptible, even though they're immune to corruption but not falling, but dare to try and suggest a Sister is incorruptible? Ooooh, the arguments. Even though they're explicitly stated to never fall, people insist on using examples of corrupted (as in mutated and warped by exterior forces) sisters in Daemonifuge to prove that Sisters willingly fall left and right...
Then how about Miriael Sabathiel, the sister that turned to chaos and is now a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh. Of course she is literally the ONLY sister to fall to the sway of chaos, as mentioned.
Also are GK really not immune to falling? I thought it was the other way around, considering that they use all those sigils and such to protect themselves from warp taint.
Grey Knights are immune to corruption because they use all those sigils and such.
However, aside from mental discipline, they are as vulnerable to falling - choosing the side of Chaos - as the next disillusioned superhuman. The case study for this one is Justicar Alaric, who willingly went over to Khorne worship while he was on a daemon world, before being welcomed back into the Grey Knights after a brief period of examination to make sure he hadn't been physically or mystically corrupted.
Miriael Sabathiel isn't a Daemon Prince, she's still a mortal, but yes, while my headcanon doesn't acknowledge her because she's in blatant contradiction to the rest of the fluff, she would technically be counted as a Sister who fell to chaos.
The Order that was purged by Canoness Stheno before Death of Antagonis, however, were suffering from physical corruption by exposure to warp energy, but remained true to their oaths and the Emperor spiritually. Corrupted, but not Fallen.
Alaric - Fell, but not Corrupted. Really, the only problem I have with this piece of fluff is that redemption in the Imperium is (in every other example) accompanied by willing purification by fire.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Then how about Miriael Sabathiel, the sister that turned to chaos and is now a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh. Of course she is literally the ONLY sister to fall to the sway of chaos, as mentioned.
Whether or not Miriael is even a thing is up for interpretation. She originally comes from a third-party trading card game and was subsequently featured in a short story by Dan Abnett.
And even then, Miriael was tortured by the Emperor's Childten before defecting to Chaos. Presumably, she was in an extremely poor state of mind at the end of it.
I don't like Miriael, but I can't make myself cut her any slack because she was tortured.
She was a weak Sister, because a true Sister would have died before accepting Slaanesh. That's what the Sisters' Faithfulness means. They're immune to falling because they will always choose to die instead of turning traitor, not because they have some kind of magic immunity.
For me, it's a moot point anyway because I don't include her in my interpretation of the setting. Yes, I agree that a Sister would indeed likely die before turning. Indeed, the brutal combat and self-flagellation they go through would possibly give then a better tolerance for torture anyway, so they wouldn't break very easily.
Just mentioned the torture thing to clarify that she didn't fall so easily, as somebody who had only heard of her might assume.
Furyou Miko wrote: I don't like Miriael, but I can't make myself cut her any slack because she was tortured.
She was a weak Sister, because a true Sister would have died before accepting Slaanesh. That's what the Sisters' Faithfulness means. They're immune to falling because they will always choose to die instead of turning traitor, not because they have some kind of magic immunity.
Indeed, in the Siege of Vraks - several Sisters were captured and tortured for the whole duration of the siege but there is no mention of them falling - indeed when they are found alive elements of the Inquisition burn them "in case" (but more due to internal politics) there is outrage from the Sisterhood and the Ordo Herecticus IIRC.
Pretty much anything can be physically corrupted by Chaos, from Orks, through Grey Knights to Necrons(*) but not everything will or indeed can choose to join their corruptor.......
(*) especially considering they have a virus transforming their race into insane, carnivorous, flesh stealing revenants...............and which they seemingly have no defence against.
The thing about the Orks is that they are all, technically, psykers. While only the Weirdboyz can consciously tap into the WAAAGH, all Orks are attuned to it and can use it on a subconscious level. Design-wise there's no reason an Ork gun can't work, but thanks to it's crude design and the manhandling it receives from it's user it shouldn't work as well as it does. Because the Ork thinks the gun should work, he subconsciously uses the WAAGH to ensure that it does, hence why it never jams or misfires. This is why the red ones go faster. The Orks think it should, so it gets a boost from the WAAAGH. This is also why Ork ships don't need Geller's Fields to safely enter the Warp. The Orks think the scary sigils, glyphs and totems covering the ship keep the Daemons at bay, so the WAAAGH creates a protective field around the ship.
Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote: This is also why Ork ships don't need Geller's Fields to safely enter the Warp. The Orks think the scary sigils, glyphs and totems covering the ship keep the Daemons at bay, so the WAAAGH creates a protective field around the ship.
Or, those sigils, glyphs and totems actually work because the deamons are scared of them. That would make sense. I mean, if you see those, you know that this ship contains orks, tons of orks, which is a pretty scary thought even for a daemon .
Daemons (at least the big 4's) don't really feel fear. Also, knowing that there are tons Orks in a ship would probably be a big draw for Daemons of Khorne, since it means a good fight, which Khorne is all about as much as Orks are. Remember Tuska, the Ork warboss who led a WAAAGH against Daemons of Khorne, and Khorne was so pleased with his bloodshed that he resurrects him to fight over and over again?
Another possibility is that those sigils, glyphs, and totems are actually part of the Mekboy technology that protects Ork ships in the Warp, which the Mechanicus doesn't understand and uses the "it's magic" excuse, because there's no way Orks could have tech beyond their understanding.
Yea, it gives them something to do during the long space voyages. It's mentioned in a fluff paragraph+ long quote on the subject as an ork muses on Space Travel being boring then decides it's not due to all the things that can attack you in space.
..on topic, those sigls and wards do work, but most faith-based things have some effect in the warp. I believe it's implied that the various Imperial gargoyles and statues on their ships has an effect too, doesn't it? So it's not just ork-exclusive for that. ....I could be wrong though and am not sure it's explicitly stated as such.
This reminded me to add this if it had been missed so far.
Being corrupted by chaos =/= falling to chaos.
One is being twisted and warped by a force out of your control while the other is willingly surrendering that control to the chaotic energies. I see it come up now and then.
Sometimes, n0t, it feels like the only ones who care about this are Sisters players...
Nobody ever argues that Grey Knights are corruptible, even though they're immune to corruption but not falling, but dare to try and suggest a Sister is incorruptible? Ooooh, the arguments. Even though they're explicitly stated to never fall, people insist on using examples of corrupted (as in mutated and warped by exterior forces) sisters in Daemonifuge to prove that Sisters willingly fall left and right...
Exactly, a lot of people have difficulty with basic reading comprehension. Falling and giving into to it is much different to it grabbing you. In much the way walking down the street with someone is not the same as being dragged by them.
Wyzilla wrote: As I recall, an Ork WHAAAGH is the whipping boy of a bunch of Khorne daemons on a Daemon World in the Eye of Terror.
You call them whipping boy ? Well, maybe. When you see a crack addict and a dose of cocaine, do you also says that the cocaine is the crack addict's whipping boy ?
One misconception that always comes up whenever there are threads of people asking about different ethnicities in the 40k universe is that humanity all homogenized into one kind of peoples (The white kind of course).
Its not really a big thing, but it seems to always come up in those threads and people just take it as fact that that's what is going to happen. It's a little creepy.
Also the fact that people try and say that Nocturne, the planet the Salamanders are from, is full of lighter skinned people. There are lighter people living in the underground caverns of Nocturne yes, but that is not the majority.
Oh ? Brother Haraldus is a woman ? I sure did not expect that. I mean, I used to point at the son in my username at people that mistook me for a woman when I used a female avatar. No need to change your username though, we are all genderless disincarnate entities of pure thoughts on the internet anyway !
fallinq wrote: Daemons (at least the big 4's) don't really feel fear.
That is because they do not yet know the humiliation an ork can inflict to them. But they learn fast .
As I recall, an Ork WHAAAGH is the whipping boy of a bunch of Khorne daemons on a Daemon World in the Eye of Terror.
Actually those very orks got a one way ticket to Khorne's Throne he loved them so much, he sends his Heralds to fight them and they all love it, an endless brawl with strong enemies.
Oh ? Brother Haraldus is a woman ? I sure did not expect that. I mean, I used to point at the son in my username at people that mistook me for a woman when I used a female avatar.
No need to change your username though, we are all genderless disincarnate entities of pure thoughts on the internet anyway !
Isn't Sister Sydney a guy? The names mean nothing, nothing I tell you! WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *chough* *hack* *chough*
I've always been annoyed when people say that CSM aren't much older than normal marines because time passes differently in the Eye. That is never stated to be true, the only thing that is said is that time flows differently in the warp, so you could have a Chaos Space Marine for whom the heresy was 10 years ago but you could also have 1 for whom the heresy was 1 million years ago.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Lies. There are no women on the internet, or even men. There are only cats.
Sure ?
May the weiner legions be with you...
Pfft, it's just a cat in disguise
But anyways back on topic.. I find that it's still annoying when people still think Slaanesh is basically SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX!
I know, right? I mean, there is more to the guy / girl than mindless fornication.
To be fair on them though, GW doesn't flesh him out as much as he deserves, imo.
Veteran of The Long War wrote: I've always been annoyed when people say that CSM aren't much older than normal marines because time passes differently in the Eye. That is never stated to be true, the only thing that is said is that time flows differently in the warp, so you could have a Chaos Space Marine for whom the heresy was 10 years ago but you could also have 1 for whom the heresy was 1 million years ago.
This is the single most annoying thing to me in all the misconceptions of 40K.
Veteran of The Long War wrote: I've always been annoyed when people say that CSM aren't much older than normal marines because time passes differently in the Eye. That is never stated to be true, the only thing that is said is that time flows differently in the warp, so you could have a Chaos Space Marine for whom the heresy was 10 years ago but you could also have 1 for whom the heresy was 1 million years ago.
This is the single most annoying thing to me in all the misconceptions of 40K.
Veteran of The Long War wrote: I've always been annoyed when people say that CSM aren't much older than normal marines because time passes differently in the Eye.
Well, unless Chaos gives them a longer lifespan, they cannot be that much older, because else they would be senile or dead. Do Chaos extend their lifespan ? I mean, of course it does for those that have become daemons and therefore eternal, but for your rank-and-file fallen marine ?
Well, unless Chaos gives them a longer lifespan, they cannot be that much older, because else they would be senile or dead. Do Chaos extend their lifespan ? I mean, of course it does for those that have become daemons and therefore eternal, but for your rank-and-file fallen marine ?
Marines have an unknown age length, one of the oldest is 1000+
There's no known age length due to the fact most will likely die in battle long before they reach it.
It really isn't. We do not have cyborgs, our manufacturing capabilities are not that advanced compared to them, they do have targeting computers (powered armored has built in auto-aim), and they have laser tech.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Problem: We do not have FTL / warp driven ships, so we cannot make a comparison.
If you said it takes 1000 people to get a car to run, you may have a point.
They do have machines, you know. Not everything has to be manual.
Depends in some cases, some of those big navy ships have slaves carrying the massive weaponry and loading it in rather then conveyor belts or any other simple tech.
Modern spacecraft use navigation computers to not end up smeared across Texas. Imperial starships have buildings-worth of modified humans plugged into massive machines to do the same thing a computer the size of a cinder block can do now.
Modern naval weapons are loaded and aimed with machines. Imperial space weapons have to be loaded and pointed in the right direction by hundreds of human workers. That's hundreds of humans for each individual weapon, not hundreds of humans in total.
Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote: Modern spacecraft use navigation computers to not end up smeared across Texas. Imperial starships have buildings-worth of modified humans plugged into massive machines to do the same thing a computer the size of a cinder block can do now.
Modern naval weapons are loaded and aimed with machines. Imperial space weapons have to be loaded and pointed in the right direction by hundreds of human workers. That's hundreds of humans for each individual weapon, not hundreds of humans in total.
Our starships do not travel through the Warp, nor do they travel as fast outside of it.
They use hundreds of humans because they are probably still cheaper than machines. Grimdark!
Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote: Modern spacecraft use navigation computers to not end up smeared across Texas. Imperial starships have buildings-worth of modified humans plugged into massive machines to do the same thing a computer the size of a cinder block can do now.
Modern naval weapons are loaded and aimed with machines. Imperial space weapons have to be loaded and pointed in the right direction by hundreds of human workers. That's hundreds of humans for each individual weapon, not hundreds of humans in total.
I thought that was because it was CHEAPER for the Imperium to do it that way, not because they didn't have the technology, due to the sheer amount of manpower available. Mechanicus starships (where they don't give a gak about the cost) use auto-loaders instead, if I recall correctly. I could be wrong.
Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote: Modern spacecraft use navigation computers to not end up smeared across Texas. Imperial starships have buildings-worth of modified humans plugged into massive machines to do the same thing a computer the size of a cinder block can do now.
Modern naval weapons are loaded and aimed with machines. Imperial space weapons have to be loaded and pointed in the right direction by hundreds of human workers. That's hundreds of humans for each individual weapon, not hundreds of humans in total.
There is no difference between a human and a computer for the IOM (which love using humans as processors and CPU's), that and our modern spacecraft do not have to exit and enter the warp, and neither do they move at degrees of c or have to manage one or more fusion reactors supporting actual miniature stars.
Which could be somewhat justified in-fluff. A dogmatic cult has a stranglehold on all technology and technological development. So that's going to impede things here and there.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Problem: We do not have FTL / warp driven ships, so we cannot make a comparison.
That's a terrible argument.
It is a valid argument though. You cannot compare X to an unknown. Since we do not currently possess FTL capabilities we have no idea how many people would be required to operate it.
They are ahead of us in the area of FTL technology.
They are behind us in the areas of computers and automation.
All of their computers are infected with sentient code that can, and will, kill you if you offend it.
Better get to anointing that PC with the sacred unguents, brother!
That depends on how much of the "Machine Spirit" concept you accept as truth and how much of it you consider to be "We found a witch! May we burn her?"
Machine spirits are indeed AI's, although their origin and actual mental capability varies greatly, with some likely being the shattered remnants of old DAOT AI that the Admech decided to use, humans that were fully upgraded and are being used as CPU's and have been buried in the ship/tank/titan, or weaker AI's that while sentient, aren't the Xantos Speed Chess Master AI's from the DAOT. We do know for example that some can feel emotions or even hold thoughts.
But they're nowhere near DAOT AI's, who put humans to shame and can cripple terminators and a contingent of techpriests with a mere snap of its fingers.
They are ahead of us in the area of FTL technology.
They are behind us in the areas of computers and automation.
All of their computers are infected with sentient code that can, and will, kill you if you offend it.
Better get to anointing that PC with the sacred unguents, brother!
That depends on how much of the "Machine Spirit" concept you accept as truth and how much of it you consider to be "We found a witch! May we burn her?"
What I meant was, how much of the idea that "every machine has a mind of it's own" is true, and how much of it is "people are too stupid to understand how their own stuff works anymore."
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Problem: We do not have FTL / warp driven ships, so we cannot make a comparison.
That's a terrible argument.
It's a logical argument.
Logical, maybe, but it actually bolsters the opposite view. No, we don't have FTL, the original statement said that in some cases the Imperium is more advanced, well, they have FTL.
Even the guns may have "machine spirits" as many powered systems have simple CPUs to optimize power (your car may not need a CPU to run but it certainly has one to optimize fuel use). So a lasgun or a bolter (which fires small missiles) is very likely to have some sort of CPU in it.
The factor with the hundreds to operate weapons is very much a cost issue. The admech has fantastically advanced methods for doing things but for most of the IoM humans are cheaper than guns and easier to get. It is much like how the Roman Empire had access to the technology steam engines are based on but never bothered trying to put it to use as slave labor was cheap and plentiful. Why spend the money and training on an autoloader when you can have 100 slaves for cheaper, feed them for less than the cost of the mechanic to upkeep the autoloaders, and they can be used as payment to DE raiding parties to leave you alone?
The last time Humanity advanced robotics far, it almost ended up destroying the entire human species.
After the whole men of Iron thing, no computer capable of making it's own decisions is ever allowed to not be integrated into a brain.
Also, computers that can be integrated into multiple brains are also disallowed, since they had a habit of going crazy and refusing to let go when the brains wanted to separate (assuming techpriests rather than servitors).
New misconception: The Alpha Legion can pretend to be ordinary humans. They're small for Marines, but they're still obviously Marines. Alpha Legion infiltrators work subtly behind the scenes, they do not act openly in the role of Imperial Governor!
I know that Alpharius is short enough so an Alpha Legionnaire could pass off as him but I never heard anything about the legion as a whole being shorter.
Also should be noted that the Alpha Legion makes use of cultists and brainwashed/indoctrinated normal humans for infiltration, so an Alpha Legion agent could indeed be a Planetary Governor, he or she simply wouldn't be an Astartes. From what I've read Alpha Legionnaires themselves seem to work behind the scenes working the puppets instead of ever actually being a part of the ruse.
Uh.. the Alpha Legion is not short in fact their known for being rather tall. They all look alike as much as possible though, but yeah their not "short". They use cloaking, psychics, etc.. when they move among human populations but most of the time actually use agents from that population instead.
Alpha was described as being a lot taller than the Alpha Legion marines in his Legion.
This is still being discussed. It's also not common, barely anyone knows about this. It's also not a misconception, there's no evidence for or against, only speculation.
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.
Yep. In the most hilarious example, Cypher was one of the leading members of the Nova Terra whachamacallit (IE, for a good chunk of time, he was on a council that ruled half of the Imperium, lol. ...that's actual fluff, btw)
That dark angel that was interrogated in one of the first Dark Angel short stories that revealed things weren't as they seemed was also a planetary governor for a time before he was caught, IIRC.
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.
Yep. That's one of those things that you'd THINK was a misconception, but it's true. It's not really explained how this works, either. Do they all just say that they have some kind of growth hormone imbalance? I guess they could get away with it on backwaters that have never heard of Astartes, but the Fallen getting administratum jobs? Really?
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.
Yep. That's one of those things that you'd THINK was a misconception, but it's true. It's not really explained how this works, either. Do they all just say that they have some kind of growth hormone imbalance? I guess they could get away with it on backwaters that have never heard of Astartes, but the Fallen getting administratum jobs? Really?
Possible. The nobility of the Imperium can access all kinds of upgrades. It's possible a few have managed to tamper with their own genes to some extent or just modified themselves in some other ways.
The governor of Vervunhive in Necropolis spent his entire time in a tank controlling the city from there. I imagine most people are happy to have a governor that's charismatic and intelligent for once rather than a raving loony...
One common misconception is that Vandire was someone from the Ecclersiarchy. He was actually someone from the Administratum, and only after reaching the top position in the Administratum did he organized a coup to take over the Ecclesiarchy, executing the Ecclesiarch and usurping his place.
Except that there is actually evidence pointing to it, considering that we know there is an Alpha Legion cell making a move to take down the Ultramarines, and the Alphic Hydras are freakishly close to being an exact copy of the methods they used to kill two previous Chapters, in full. The only difference is that those were well hidden and this is quite a bit more blatant.
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.
Yep. That's one of those things that you'd THINK was a misconception, but it's true. It's not really explained how this works, either. Do they all just say that they have some kind of growth hormone imbalance? I guess they could get away with it on backwaters that have never heard of Astartes, but the Fallen getting administratum jobs? Really?
Not all of the Fallen are the Astartes. Many in the number of the Dark Angels were actually the mortal humans from the Order ruled by Lion'el Johnson and Luther, who were then augmented to near Astartes levels in every way possible. They were also shorter than astartes, which causes some distress in some and feelings of inadequacy and fear of inferiority.
1) Slaanesh disciple are in constant euphoric state.
Truth: they are constantly searching it, but never getting it. Slaanesh is the god of excess not pleasure. He drives his disciple to the edge of experience in search of something they will never receive else it would be the end of excess.
2) Space Marine are too large to look like humans.
Truth: it is unlikely but possible. The average Space Marine is 7 foot tall and muscular. Ibram Gaunt was almost 7 foot tall and muscular, Colm Corbec was taller and Bragg even more. On our little universe, Shaq O'Neil measure 7`4. A Space Marine would looks like a very large (and usually ugly and foul smelling) person. Of course, their attitude and general way of being would betray them quite easily.
3) Chaos traitor are thousands of years old.
Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.
epronovost wrote: 2) Space Marine are too large to look like humans.
Truth: it is unlikely but possible. The average Space Marine is 7 foot tall and muscular. Ibram Gaunt was almost 7 foot tall and muscular, Colm Corbec was taller and Bragg even more. On our little universe, Shaq O'Neil measure 7`4. A Space Marine would looks like a very large (and usually ugly and foul smelling) person. Of course, their attitude and general way of being would betray them quite easily.
It probablty depends upon a given source's take on how tall Marines are. Dakka certainly can't agree how tall they are, and neither can the wider 40K canon.
Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.
Which is a misconception in itself. There's plenty of veterans of the long war running around.
The 'few hundred years' thing was true for ADB's Night Lords, but the Warp is not predictable. It is just as likely to extend time as to shorten it. Some veterans may well be 100K years old or older still.
1) Slaanesh disciple are in constant euphoric state.
Truth: they are constantly searching it, but never getting it. Slaanesh is the god of excess not pleasure. He drives his disciple to the edge of experience in search of something they will never receive else it would be the end of excess.
2) Space Marine are too large to look like humans.
Truth: it is unlikely but possible. The average Space Marine is 7 foot tall and muscular. Ibram Gaunt was almost 7 foot tall and muscular, Colm Corbec was taller and Bragg even more. On our little universe, Shaq O'Neil measure 7`4. A Space Marine would looks like a very large (and usually ugly and foul smelling) person. Of course, their attitude and general way of being would betray them quite easily.
3) Chaos traitor are thousands of years old.
Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.
Incorrect on Slaanesh. Tome of Excess and Fulgrim disagree with you there, if not fly directly in denial of what you say, Slaanesh does grant pleasure, but its drags its cultists around by constantly teasing and granting more. The point and power of Slaanesh is that it can always grant more experience for it exponentially increases, but in return the debauchery of the cultist must also increase and never stagnate. They are in a euphoric state, and many of the muations Slaanesh grants renders one in a state of both agonizing and wondrous constant pleasure. But there's always more, and more never ends.
And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.
Jehan-reznor wrote: This can only be proven if Ron Jeremy's geneseed is used to make a marine chapter and so the shaft chapter was created famous for their insertion techniques and their problem of fitting into power armor!
"The missing legion is referred to as 'The Tripod Legion' in a series of ancient and graphically-heretical dataslates... of which there are numerous copies. Still apocryphal, though."
Jehan-reznor wrote: This can only be proven if Ron Jeremy's geneseed is used to make a marine chapter and so the shaft chapter was created famous for their insertion techniques and their problem of fitting into power armor!
"The missing legion is referred to as 'The Tripod Legion' in a series of ancient and graphically-heretical dataslates... of which there are numerous copies. Still apocryphal, though."
Ron Jeremy is one of the missing primarchs.
His legion specialists in surprise rear attacks, penetrating deep into enemy territory.
Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.
Which is a misconception in itself. There's plenty of veterans of the long war running around.
The 'few hundred years' thing was true for ADB's Night Lords, but the Warp is not predictable. It is just as likely to extend time as to shorten it. Some veterans may well be 100K years old or older still.
He means the majority of Chaos Space Marines are not veterans due to sheer attrition.
Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.
Which is a misconception in itself. There's plenty of veterans of the long war running around.
The 'few hundred years' thing was true for ADB's Night Lords, but the Warp is not predictable. It is just as likely to extend time as to shorten it. Some veterans may well be 100K years old or older still.
He means the majority of Chaos Space Marines are not veterans due to sheer attrition.
I answered the last sentence, which is extreme generalisation and incorrect.
And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.
Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.
I don't know if this have been mentioned before, but there are people that believe that Macrage was only defended by the Ultramarines.
It was defended by far more than that, including a nice amount of Guardsmen from the neighboring sectors.
And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.
Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.
He won't be able to provide a source as there have been so many black library books that differ, try remembering what book you read 1 line of text in several years ago.
Misconeption: all space marines are the same size and cannot possibly vary between chapters or even planets they recruit from, as that would be useing common sense to plug an obvious inconsistency in the fluff, case in point, alexus polux of the imperial fists was huge even for a marine, almost primarch height infact.
And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.
Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.
He won't be able to provide a source as there have been so many black library books that differ, try remembering what book you read 1 line of text in several years ago.
Misconeption: all space marines are the same size and cannot possibly vary between chapters or even planets they recruit from, as that would be useing common sense to plug an obvious inconsistency in the fluff, case in point, alexus polux of the imperial fists was huge even for a marine, almost primarch height infact.
Not to mention Alpha Legion, whose primarch was a bit smaller, and their marines big enough to mask Alphurius amongst them.
And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.
Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.
Really? The classic scale photo with Jes G has them at about 7 feet in power armor. TDA will likely get them to 8-9 feet
And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.
Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.
Really? The classic scale photo with Jes G has them at about 7 feet in power armor. TDA will likely get them to 8-9 feet
Yes, but you are forgetting that Jes G isn't accurately scaled IRL. He's supposed to be 28mm but he's really closer to 30mm.
I just found that while searching if there was any errata to the AS codex:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/yarrick-imperial-creed.html And the important part (which is not that one more story is likely going to depict the Sisters as stupid ) :
“Sebastian Yarrick […] who Space Marine Chapter Masters show their fealty to on bended knee”
Yeah, chapter masters bend their knees to Yarrick. So long for “Marine outpower and disrespect everyone else in the Imperium”.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I just found that while searching if there was any errata to the AS codex:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/yarrick-imperial-creed.html And the important part (which is not that one more story is likely going to depict the Sisters as stupid ) :
“Sebastian Yarrick […] who Space Marine Chapter Masters show their fealty to on bended knee”
Yeah, chapter masters bend their knees to Yarrick. So long for “Marine outpower and disrespect everyone else in the Imperium”.
Seems like the many, many quotes that state that 'The Space Marines are the best soldiers in the Imperium' to me.
Ashiraya wrote: Seems like the many, many quotes that state that 'The Space Marines are the best soldiers in the Imperium' to me.
Not talking about who is the best soldier here. Those chapter masters would certainly kill Yarrick in a one-on-one fight, and maybe are able to match and maybe outmatch his tactical and strategical skills. I was referring to the political relations between marines and non-marines. About whether marines always act as jerk and consider every non-marine as an incompetent idiot or not.
And of course it is a flamebait, it is the whole point of this thread, it is not ?
Ashiraya wrote: Seems like the many, many quotes that state that 'The Space Marines are the best soldiers in the Imperium' to me.
Not talking about who is the best soldier here. Those chapter masters would certainly kill Yarrick in a one-on-one fight, and maybe are able to match and maybe outmatch his tactical and strategical skills. I was referring to the political relations between marines and non-marines. About whether marines always act as jerk and consider every non-marine as an incompetent idiot or not.
And of course it is a flamebait, it is the whole point of this thread, it is not ?
That is not what I meant.
I meant that is basically 'look at how cool X is' and has no real grounding- much like how Space Marines are not the best soldiers in the Imperium (That would be the Custodes, or Grey Knights)
So, what you are saying is that Chapter Masters actually do not bend the knee to show their fealty to Yarrick, but rather [strawman]spit on him to show their mistrust and scorn[/strawman] ? Good for you .
Even with some in-universe bias, it would mean that actually Chapter Masters treat Yarrick as an equal rather than considering him with scorn and mistrusts, would it not ?
Annandale actually wrote a pretty decent SoB character in another book, The Death of Antagonis. He even had said character kicking lots of ass and even holding her own against a Marine one on one, so his portrayal of them here might be allright.
Okay, then sorry for that inappropriate assumption. It is just that “fanatical people that stand between the hero and its mission” usually means idiots .
Annandale actually wrote a pretty decent SoB character in another book, The Death of Antagonis. He even had said character kicking lots of ass and even holding her own against a Marine one on one, so his portrayal of them here might be allright.
Not what he/she (sorry, forgot) said. We were talking about how the Sisters were portrayed, from my first message on this topic. Not about the quality of writings in general.
Why are you so negative today ?
Yarrick was elected to lead the third battle of Armegeddon even in the old fluff. Some of the people who voted for him were Space Marine Chapter Masters. As I stated in the AM thread, I don't recall anything as far as "bended knee" in the old fluff, but it's plausible/possible given that they elected him to lead them.
He also wrote that she had her entire minor order exterminated except for herself because they were becoming corrupted by extended exposure to Chaos, just so that he could include a single command-rank battle sister in a role normally given to Inquisitors, so he could cast his Inquisitor as a villain, without having to worry about her having a command to take care of.
Not what he/she (sorry, forgot) said. We were talking about how the Sisters were portrayed, from my first message on this topic. Not about the quality of writings in general.
Why are you so negative today ?
I still don't see how making a SoB strong is the primary quality (As implied in his post, since that is what he adressed) for making her good as a character.
Troike wrote: said character kicking lots of ass and even holding her own against a Marine one on one, so his portrayal of them here might be allright.
Well, I guess he/she must have mentioned that because sisters are usually displayed as quite weak, and so he/she wanted to show how that author did not fall to this usual, annoying to fans of the sisters, trope.
No need to be like that, bud. I just cited those examples to show that the author has demonstrated respect for the SoB as fighters. Relevant, as a it's something of a recurring problem with SoB appearances in BL books that Sisters are beaten a bit too easily. I assumed that that was what Hybrid was concerned about.
Additionally, to expand on my earlier comment, Annadale did a fairly good job of characterising his SoB character. Obviously, there's more to writing a faction well than just having them do well in fights.
Furyou Miko wrote: He also wrote that she had her entire minor order exterminated except for herself because they were becoming corrupted by extended exposure to Chaos, just so that he could include a single command-rank battle sister in a role normally given to Inquisitors, so he could cast his Inquisitor as a villain, without having to worry about her having a command to take care of.
Sure, it wasn't a perfect portrayal. I didn't completely dislike the thing with the Minor Order, since I think it's mainly there to show off how cold and ruthless Setheno is. But I wasn't too sure about Setheno's rather fatalist view on her faith that she expressed at the end.
Still, on the whole, I think he did fairly well. I liked Setheno as a character and all that. If nothing else, his portrayal is far from the worst.
I was going to contribute, but found too many glaring ones to bother starting, clearly the majority of gamers do not read many books by the BL, and make their mind up based off the snippets they get from a codex.
I mean, I don't want to sound elitist or anything, there is nothing wrong with not being massively into reading or anything, its just that trying to be a clever dick despite not actually knowing much is a problem that has always confounded me, the amount of people that are happy to spout off despite the fact they know nothing constantly boggles my mind. If I haven't read something from a reliable source, I will hold my hands up and say "feth knows" but this seems to be a skill that the majority of the world has never mastered.
Its like when you see teenage students in seminary arguing about scientific principles with physicists, or farm laborers insisting their doctor knows nothing about the causes of heart disease, people just never seem to have grasped the fact there is nothing shameful in saying "I don't actually know"
Anyway yeah.. there are too many to mention, but If pressed for one, I would say the staggering number of ridiculousness about all things Space Marines, considering they are the most endlessly written about faction. This for example.....
Is about as wrong as claiming the sky is green. I mean really, how many different sources are there about Marines being all Mary Sue and being polite and differential and addressing humans by rank? gak.. I think I read the Ultramarines trilogy years ago and one of them visited a Guardsman in hospital and took him a present and everything.
All of the misconceptions about the Primarchs piss me off too considering that by the time Scars has come out there isn't any ambiguity left and the 60% of the Primarchs are either Luke Skywalker good or Joffrey Baratheon bad.
No need to be like that, bud. I just cited those examples to show that the author has demonstrated respect for the SoB as fighters. Relevant, as a it's something of a recurring problem with SoB appearances in BL books that Sisters are beaten a bit too easily. I assumed that that was what Hybrid was concerned about.
Just to make sure this is pretty clear, I was saying that this was a misconception people had. Because from your truncated quote, it seems like I pretend this is true.
mattyrm wrote: All of the misconceptions about the Primarchs piss me off too considering that by the time Scars has come out there isn't any ambiguity left and the 60% of the Primarchs are either Luke Skywalker good or Joffrey Baratheon bad.
. If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
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