Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Spoiler:
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the
T fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
Tau codex, page 11. under T'au. I'l even add a pic for your convenience.
Spoiler:
See, I told you it's a common misconception . If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
It's no longer the symbol for the T'au Sept but it still is the symbol for the Tau Empire. Look here in the bottom right corner:
Spoiler:
The Tau really don't seem to have many fortress stations or orbital cities. I expected a lot more of those. I can only see about 5 orbital cities (which seem to be the wrong colour in the key) and there are only slighter more than 20 fortress stations.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/27 19:42:20
- Orks definitely have some influence on the things around them just by believing certain things. As far as I've seen it's just a theory, not a confirmed thing.
- Ethereal mind control is confirmed. I know there is one quote in the new Tau codex in regards to Aun'va which implies it, but it is not outright stated and there are other explanations for that quote. I may be wrong on this though as i don't actually have the latest codex.
Spoiler:
Co'tor Shas wrote: I thought it would be interesting we we all shared common fluff misconceptions that we see.
I'l start
This is not the symbol of the tau empire
That is the symbol of the
T fire caste.. It irritates me to no end when people get that wrong.
It is also the Symbol for the T'au sept, so it is the symbol for the Tau empire as well.
Tau codex, page 11. under T'au. I'l even add a pic for your convenience.
Spoiler:
See, I told you it's a common misconception . If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
It's no longer the symbol for the T'au Sept but it still is the symbol for the Tau Empire. Look here in the bottom right corner:
Spoiler:
The Tau really don't seem to have many fortress stations or orbital cities. I expected a lot more of those. I can only see about 5 orbital cities (which seem to be the wrong colour in the key) and there are only slighter more than 20 fortress stations.
I think a sight mis-communication is our problem here. When I said tau empire I meant tau, as in the sept. Just m being silly .
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
Really now, no. This itself is such a major misconception that I absolutely hate this claim.
Did you forget Lucius, the 'perfection' of the perfect duel who constantly seeks to improve himself? He's been in a while, long before FFG took a crack at it.
Slaanesh is basically the god of:
Excess in all its forms (Lust, Gluttony, Pride, even down to emotions), Obsession, Passion, Perfection (That perfect painting, that beautiful music, the art of mastering the duelists blade), Pleasure, Decadence, and Self-Indulgence.
Just because the gods have been flanderized at times does NOT mean that old fluff is thrown out the window if it's not directly beaten out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 00:22:25
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
Really now, no. This itself is such a major misconception that I absolutely hate this claim.
Did you forget Lucius, the 'perfection' of the perfect duel who constantly seeks to improve himself? He's been in a while, long before FFG took a crack at it.
Slaanesh is basically the god of:
Excess in all its forms (Lust, Gluttony, Pride, even down to emotions), Obsession, Passion, Perfection (That perfect painting, that beautiful music, the art of mastering the duelists blade), Pleasure, Decadence, and Self-Indulgence.
Just because the gods have been flanderized at times does NOT mean that old fluff is thrown out the window if it's not directly beaten out.
Lucius is a single individual. The Tome of Excess builds largely off perfectionism for the entire supplement, which is a great deal more than the short blurbs on Lucius the Eternal.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Also, another misconception I hate, Slaanesh cultists are sex-crazed tail-chasing addicts. No. While some do indeed pursue that path, Slaanesh is simply perfection in all forms, be it swordsmanship or gluttony. Pleasure isn't remotely exclusive to sex, it's simply a chemical reaction in the brain resulting from anything it deems as an extremely positive sensations, which if you're a die-hard perfectionist painter, would result from finishing your Magnum Opus (although Slaanesh demands every work you produce be your Magnum Opus, each one topping the latter). Sure the "I DO COCAINE" jokes of Noise Marines are fun, but it undermines the end result of Slaaneshi corruption. Completely sacrificing ALL of your humanity in exchange for endless pleasure, fully abandoning your species. More-so than any other Chaos God, Slaanesh takes everything and leaves a pleasure-seeking junky constantly searching for all forms of happiness to fill the hollow feeling inside.
You are mostly right. Slaanesh is about pleasure, but not about perfection. The perfection angle was invented for the backstory of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children. They were about perfection in all things, and this obsession was used by Slaanesh to get at them (or was it the daemon sword possessing Fulgrim in the new fluff?) because being perfect made them happy and too much happy = Chaos. Perfection didn't start showing up in any Slaanesh fluff until after the backstory for the EC was fleshed out, and even then it stayed mostly associated with them. Slaanesh is only about one thing: pleasure. How you achieve that pleasure is entirely up to you. Drugs? Sex? Violence? Artistic endeavors? One or all of these are perfectly acceptable ways to get your jollies, and Slaanesh is fueled by you getting your jollies excessively. True, Slaanesh isn't only about sex (a misconception that is pretty common among Slaanesh players because of 25 years of Daemonettes with exposed boobies) but most people consider sex to be a pleasurable thing (assuming you're doing it right) and since "Slaanesh = pleasure", "sex = pleasure" therefore: "Slaanesh = sex" seems to be the shorthand math.
No, the perfectionism of slaanesh largely comes from Black Crusade and especially, Tome of Excess, where the champions of Slaanesh must continue to become greater at their aspirations be it painting or killing, lest they falter and become less than perfect.
Really now, no. This itself is such a major misconception that I absolutely hate this claim.
Did you forget Lucius, the 'perfection' of the perfect duel who constantly seeks to improve himself? He's been in a while, long before FFG took a crack at it.
Slaanesh is basically the god of:
Excess in all its forms (Lust, Gluttony, Pride, even down to emotions), Obsession, Passion, Perfection (That perfect painting, that beautiful music, the art of mastering the duelists blade), Pleasure, Decadence, and Self-Indulgence.
Just because the gods have been flanderized at times does NOT mean that old fluff is thrown out the window if it's not directly beaten out.
Lucius is a single individual. The Tome of Excess builds largely off perfectionism for the entire supplement, which is a great deal more than the short blurbs on Lucius the Eternal.
You mean besides the other chapters on "Slaves to Sensations" , Six Delights of Slaanesh, Myraid Excesses, and all that? It focuses on the general aspects of Slaanesh rather then one single aspect as you say.
There's also the fact that Lucius wasn't alone, there was books in the Realms of Chaos before describing Slaanesh and Obsession with Perfection, it's not a thing that just suddenly came about..
Psienesis wrote: The quest for perfection, in anything, is itself an obsession, and so falls into the portfolio of Slaanesh.
Exactly. Its not perfection that feeds Slaanesh; it is the obsession with perfection. Any obsession would feed Slaanesh. An obsession for sexual gratification, narcotic stimulus, material wealth, beauty, skill, or tasty snack cakes would all feed Slaanesh. But a perfect tasty snack cake alone would not feed Slaanesh... it would be the obsessive, all-consuming pursuit of a perfect snack cake that would actually feed Slaanesh.
I mean in the figurative sense. Slaanesh isn't going to actually eat the tasty snack cake.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/28 22:38:29
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
Exactly. Its not perfection that feeds Slaanesh; it is the obsession with perfection. Any obsession would feed Slaanesh. An obsession for sexual gratification, narcotic stimulus, material wealth, beauty, skill, or tasty snack cakes would all feed Slaanesh. But a perfect tasty snack cake alone would not feed Slaanesh... it would be the obsessive, all-consuming pursuit of a perfect snack cake that would actually feed Slaanesh.
I mean in the figurative sense. Slaanesh isn't going to actually eat the tasty snack cake.
Now I want to write about or convert a champion of Slaanesh who is an obsessive baker of delicious pastries of DOOM.
Here's an annoying myth: "Humans are the only race that Chaos can corrupt."
No. No they aren't. Chaos Gods aren't human gods. They exist because of a galaxy's worth of sentient races. First off, there are all the minor alien races in the fluff that have entirely turned to chaos like the Saruthi (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Saruthi#.Uzjl2PldVps) and the Laer (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Laer#.UzjmuvldVps). There are also instances of corrupted Orks (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Freebooter#.UzjnmvldVps) that are still canon. I've heard that there are references to a few Eldar Chaos Champions but I don't know the source. These races have more defense mechanisms than humans, but aren't immune.
The most persistent one is that the Tau are completely immune to Chaos. I don't know of any source that has actually stated this. The Tau have a very small warp presence, and therefore have a high level of resistance and aren't very appealing to daemons. There's no canon instances (although the events in Fire Warrior skirt the edge), but in theory they would not be above corruption.
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality) and the Necrons (cut off from the warp). Blanks and Pariahs in the human population are immune too, but they're not really a "race".
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality)
They cannot be 'tempted' however there was reports of Tyranids being 'Corrupted' 'Warp-tainted' and 'Mutated' by chaos.
Storm of Iron had an entire bioship corrupted, the old Daemonhunters book gave it as a reason for them to fight tyranids, and a few other sources that I wish I could remember.
And back in rogue trader/2nd genestealer cults could call on Chaos (Most likely retconned, as this was back in the days when you could get Khorne stormboys and all)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/01 18:27:41
Yep. An individual Tyranid won't suddenly become a Champion of Chaos... but they can be exposed to enough of the raw essence of the Warp to mutate and then be cut-off from the Hive Mind (who cannot risk that spreading).
By the same token, though, get enough Tyranid in the area and the Shadow in the Warp can disrupt daemonic presences.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality)
They cannot be 'tempted' however there was reports of Tyranids being 'Corrupted' 'Warp-tainted' and 'Mutated' by chaos.
Storm of Iron had an entire bioship corrupted, the old Daemonhunters book gave it as a reason for them to fight tyranids, and a few other sources that I wish I could remember.
And back in rogue trader/2nd genestealer cults could call on Chaos (Most likely retconned, as this was back in the days when you could get Khorne stormboys and all)
Back then, Genestealers and Tyranids weren't connected at all. Genestealers were a parasitic lifeform from the moon Ymgarl, while the heralds for the Tyranid invasion were the Zoats, a race of centaur-like beings who possessed both technology and individuality.
One thing that really annoys me is how people tend to overestimate the powers of the commisariat. Yes they have total jurisdiction within the guard and navy but they have no power elsewhere nor over any imperial civilian.
EmilCrane wrote: One thing that really annoys me is how people tend to overestimate the powers of the commisariat. Yes they have total jurisdiction within the guard and navy but they have no power elsewhere nor over any imperial civilian.
While they don't have authority over the other branches of military/government, they do have authority over Imperial citizens. ANY Imperial official has authority over Imperial citizens.
Da Butcha wrote: Orks are all psychically active at a low level means that if an ork believes something works, it does.
No. Just no.
Even if the premise is determined to be true in-game, the presence of low-level psychic activity in all orks does not imbue each and every ork with the ability to totally bypass physics, nor does it indicate that orks can simply choose to believe in something and make it work.
It's well established that all orks have some niggling level of psychic ability. That alone means that individual orkish belief isn't enough to 'empower' a device to ignore the laws of physics. One ork doesn't generate much psychic energy. They have a low-level of psychic power. They aren't Eldar.
On top of that, even if orks do psychically manifest by empowering items to bypass the laws of physics, that doesn't follow that orks can simply 'choose' to believe something so that it happens. Belief is a pretty complicated state of affairs, and humans (and, presumably orks) can't just turn it on at will. Given that orks believe 'red wunz go fasta', and red vehicles do move faster for orks, doesn't indicate that orks painted their vehicles red, then decided to believe that make them faster.
Presumably, this arose from a more complicated state of affairs. Perhaps the Evil Suns, who tend to like red colors, and who have a love of speed and a lot of meks, painted a lot of vehicles red. These vehicles might have been faster because they were driven by orks with an affinity for speed, or orks who chose to spend a lot of teef on making a fast vehicle. Then, after orks observed many Evil Suns vehicles (which both tended to be red, and tended to be fast), a widespread belief in 'red=fast' arose in the ork psychology.
It just makes me ill when some glib nitwit spouts some random, stupid idea and justifies it with "Well, if the orks believe it, then it actually happens, because psychics."
Spoiler:
For a counter-example, here's my fluff idea for targeter squigs (as found on the Freebooter-looking Flash Git GW sells):
Targeter squigs are rotund, monocular, near-sighted squigs. They are reluctant to move, and prefer to sit immobile and wait for prey. When approached by a potential predator, the targeter squig emits a loud, piercing chirp, sounding much like an electronic ping or beep. If the predator continues to approach the squig, the targeter squig will continue to emit this unpleasant beeping, increasing in volume and frequency. If the predator approaches too closely to the squig, it will often vomit the contents of its stomach at the predator, void its bowels in the direction of the predator, or leap away awkwardly (and sometimes, all three).
Now, if an ork picks up a targeter squig, he's got a little pet that will sit on his shoulder. It's nearsighted, and has trouble with depth perception. If the ork is moving around, the squig will sometimes see something that alarms it, and emit a little panicked 'ping'. However, if the ork continues to move around, the squig might lose focus on the threat, and settle down, or see something else threatening. On the other hand, if the ork can muster up some concentration and stand fairly still, the targeter squig will focus on the prey and see it approaching. It will continue to ping and ping as the prey approaches. Ultimately, the squig will be emitting a panicked trill, if the enemy is fairly close. At this point, the ork knows that he had better shoot the enemy, or his pet will throw up or poop all over the place, so he shoots. As a result of standing still, the ork is actually in the best possible firing position (at least, for an ork), as he isn't running around, waving his arms, or generally being a boisterous ork.
So, even though the targeter squig doesn't actually 'target' the enemy, the behaviors that accompany the squig do benefit the ork's aim. As orks observe other orks using targeter squigs and being more accurate (for entirely the wrong reasons), a communal belief in the efficacy of targeter squigs arises in the orkish mind, to the extent that even in situations where the targeter squig should be of little help, an ork with one is measurably more accurate than one without.
See, it's not "Orks believe it so it's true!"
I never said that if an Ork believes something it is automatically true, they have clearly had concepts of 'red wunz go fasta' for a very long time, and because they all believed in it they began painting their vehicles red, not the other way round. Nobody said that they can just believe in something and make it happen. For example Orks believe that the guns given to them should shoot, why wouldn't they? The average Ork Boy knows nothing of how a firing mechanism works, so as far as they're concerned the gun will shoot, and it does despite the fact that it shouldn't.
As I said, nobody claimed that Orks could 'choose' to believe or disbelieve something that suits them. They're not that smart
*Zero Strategy - Yes Orks are savages, but they do employ strategies. Its the misconception of the Imperium that they don't.
Example of Ork Strategy:
In the 13th Legion book(Last Chancers), an Imperial Fort on an Ice Death World is setup at the end of a ravine with an icy wasteland on the other side that no man could survive even with the best equipment. One of the Penal Legion soldiers yells at one of the commanding officers for thinking that the Orks were stupid enough to only attack from the ravine. Because unlike humans, an Ork boy can survive almost any environment. As such the fortress almost was destroyed by a pincer movement.
*Shokk Attack Gun fires grots/gretchin - Actually Grots are just smart enough to not want to get sucked up into it. Snottlings are used instead because they don't have any self preservation or intelligence.
*Orks think their machinery to work - This one might just be from my perspective. Orks know how their weapons work, so much so that even the most basic boy can make a gun out of scrap. Its the Imperium of Man that can't figure out how the gun actually works. Its easier for them to say Magic instead of admitting that the Orks have technological knowledge that the Mechanicum doesn't.
*All Orks are Speed Freaks - The Kult of Speed does appear in Ork Kulture, but while it is the case you'll get Orks that are interested going Fasta' not all Ork drivers/pilots are apart of it. Similar to how not all Orks carrying Rokkit Launchas are Tankbustas.
IIRC, Snotlings are trained to run through tunnels in the ground, then in battle, the Shokk Attack Gun opens up a tunnel through the Immaterium, the Snotlings run through (as trained) and come out insane.
Orks believing hard enough cause things to be true? Pure Imperial idiocy. Of course, with Yarrick he did get his laser eye because he had heard word that the Orks claimed he could kill with a look, so I guess that is one instance of Ork belief becoming true.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
The only races that are truly immune to Chaos are the Tyranids (no individuality)
They cannot be 'tempted' however there was reports of Tyranids being 'Corrupted' 'Warp-tainted' and 'Mutated' by chaos.
Storm of Iron had an entire bioship corrupted, the old Daemonhunters book gave it as a reason for them to fight tyranids, and a few other sources that I wish I could remember.
And back in rogue trader/2nd genestealer cults could call on Chaos (Most likely retconned, as this was back in the days when you could get Khorne stormboys and all)
This reminded me to add this if it had been missed so far.
Being corrupted by chaos =/= falling to chaos.
One is being twisted and warped by a force out of your control while the other is willingly surrendering that control to the chaotic energies. I see it come up now and then.
This reminded me to add this if it had been missed so far.
Being corrupted by chaos =/= falling to chaos.
One is being twisted and warped by a force out of your control while the other is willingly surrendering that control to the chaotic energies. I see it come up now and then.
Sometimes, n0t, it feels like the only ones who care about this are Sisters players...
Nobody ever argues that Grey Knights are corruptible, even though they're immune to corruption but not falling, but dare to try and suggest a Sister is incorruptible? Ooooh, the arguments. Even though they're explicitly stated to never fall, people insist on using examples of corrupted (as in mutated and warped by exterior forces) sisters in Daemonifuge to prove that Sisters willingly fall left and right...
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
This reminded me to add this if it had been missed so far.
Being corrupted by chaos =/= falling to chaos.
One is being twisted and warped by a force out of your control while the other is willingly surrendering that control to the chaotic energies. I see it come up now and then.
Sometimes, n0t, it feels like the only ones who care about this are Sisters players...
Nobody ever argues that Grey Knights are corruptible, even though they're immune to corruption but not falling, but dare to try and suggest a Sister is incorruptible? Ooooh, the arguments. Even though they're explicitly stated to never fall, people insist on using examples of corrupted (as in mutated and warped by exterior forces) sisters in Daemonifuge to prove that Sisters willingly fall left and right...
Then how about Miriael Sabathiel, the sister that turned to chaos and is now a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh. Of course she is literally the ONLY sister to fall to the sway of chaos, as mentioned.
Also are GK really not immune to falling? I thought it was the other way around, considering that they use all those sigils and such to protect themselves from warp taint.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/05 14:48:25
Grey Knights are immune to corruption because they use all those sigils and such.
However, aside from mental discipline, they are as vulnerable to falling - choosing the side of Chaos - as the next disillusioned superhuman. The case study for this one is Justicar Alaric, who willingly went over to Khorne worship while he was on a daemon world, before being welcomed back into the Grey Knights after a brief period of examination to make sure he hadn't been physically or mystically corrupted.
Miriael Sabathiel isn't a Daemon Prince, she's still a mortal, but yes, while my headcanon doesn't acknowledge her because she's in blatant contradiction to the rest of the fluff, she would technically be counted as a Sister who fell to chaos.
The Order that was purged by Canoness Stheno before Death of Antagonis, however, were suffering from physical corruption by exposure to warp energy, but remained true to their oaths and the Emperor spiritually. Corrupted, but not Fallen.
Alaric - Fell, but not Corrupted. Really, the only problem I have with this piece of fluff is that redemption in the Imperium is (in every other example) accompanied by willing purification by fire.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/05 15:22:00
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Then how about Miriael Sabathiel, the sister that turned to chaos and is now a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh. Of course she is literally the ONLY sister to fall to the sway of chaos, as mentioned.
Whether or not Miriael is even a thing is up for interpretation. She originally comes from a third-party trading card game and was subsequently featured in a short story by Dan Abnett.
And even then, Miriael was tortured by the Emperor's Childten before defecting to Chaos. Presumably, she was in an extremely poor state of mind at the end of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/05 15:22:58
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
I don't like Miriael, but I can't make myself cut her any slack because she was tortured.
She was a weak Sister, because a true Sister would have died before accepting Slaanesh. That's what the Sisters' Faithfulness means. They're immune to falling because they will always choose to die instead of turning traitor, not because they have some kind of magic immunity.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
For me, it's a moot point anyway because I don't include her in my interpretation of the setting. Yes, I agree that a Sister would indeed likely die before turning. Indeed, the brutal combat and self-flagellation they go through would possibly give then a better tolerance for torture anyway, so they wouldn't break very easily.
Just mentioned the torture thing to clarify that she didn't fall so easily, as somebody who had only heard of her might assume.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/04/05 15:29:57
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
Furyou Miko wrote: I don't like Miriael, but I can't make myself cut her any slack because she was tortured.
She was a weak Sister, because a true Sister would have died before accepting Slaanesh. That's what the Sisters' Faithfulness means. They're immune to falling because they will always choose to die instead of turning traitor, not because they have some kind of magic immunity.
Indeed, in the Siege of Vraks - several Sisters were captured and tortured for the whole duration of the siege but there is no mention of them falling - indeed when they are found alive elements of the Inquisition burn them "in case" (but more due to internal politics) there is outrage from the Sisterhood and the Ordo Herecticus IIRC.
Pretty much anything can be physically corrupted by Chaos, from Orks, through Grey Knights to Necrons(*) but not everything will or indeed can choose to join their corruptor.......
(*) especially considering they have a virus transforming their race into insane, carnivorous, flesh stealing revenants...............and which they seemingly have no defence against.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
. If you look at page 7 you'll see the caste symbols.
.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
