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It depends.

If it's something like a tank or a starship, it's probably true.

If it's something like an autogun, then it's probably just superstition (assuming small arms does not have a built in computer)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Problem: We do not have FTL / warp driven ships, so we cannot make a comparison.

That's a terrible argument.

It's a logical argument.

Logical, maybe, but it actually bolsters the opposite view. No, we don't have FTL, the original statement said that in some cases the Imperium is more advanced, well, they have FTL.

Even the guns may have "machine spirits" as many powered systems have simple CPUs to optimize power (your car may not need a CPU to run but it certainly has one to optimize fuel use). So a lasgun or a bolter (which fires small missiles) is very likely to have some sort of CPU in it.

The factor with the hundreds to operate weapons is very much a cost issue. The admech has fantastically advanced methods for doing things but for most of the IoM humans are cheaper than guns and easier to get. It is much like how the Roman Empire had access to the technology steam engines are based on but never bothered trying to put it to use as slave labor was cheap and plentiful. Why spend the money and training on an autoloader when you can have 100 slaves for cheaper, feed them for less than the cost of the mechanic to upkeep the autoloaders, and they can be used as payment to DE raiding parties to leave you alone?

 ansacs wrote:
Eand they can be used as payment to DE raiding parties to leave you alone?

That is HERESY .

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:
Hence why they're ahead of us in some areas, and behind us in others.

For those of you who need it spelled out:

They are ahead of us in the area of FTL technology.

They are behind us in the areas of computers and automation.

The last time Humanity advanced robotics far, it almost ended up destroying the entire human species.

After the whole men of Iron thing, no computer capable of making it's own decisions is ever allowed to not be integrated into a brain.

 Kain wrote:

The last time Humanity advanced robotics far, it almost ended up destroying the entire human species.

After the whole men of Iron thing, no computer capable of making it's own decisions is ever allowed to not be integrated into a brain.

Also, computers that can be integrated into multiple brains are also disallowed, since they had a habit of going crazy and refusing to let go when the brains wanted to separate (assuming techpriests rather than servitors).

New misconception: The Alpha Legion can pretend to be ordinary humans. They're small for Marines, but they're still obviously Marines. Alpha Legion infiltrators work subtly behind the scenes, they do not act openly in the role of Imperial Governor!

Alpha Legion small for Marines? Source?

I know that Alpharius is short enough so an Alpha Legionnaire could pass off as him but I never heard anything about the legion as a whole being shorter.

Smaller than avg Primarch or no, that he can blend in with his warriors only implies they are bigger than standard, not smaller.

Also should be noted that the Alpha Legion makes use of cultists and brainwashed/indoctrinated normal humans for infiltration, so an Alpha Legion agent could indeed be a Planetary Governor, he or she simply wouldn't be an Astartes. From what I've read Alpha Legionnaires themselves seem to work behind the scenes working the puppets instead of ever actually being a part of the ruse.

Uh.. the Alpha Legion is not short in fact their known for being rather tall. They all look alike as much as possible though, but yeah their not "short". They use cloaking, psychics, etc.. when they move among human populations but most of the time actually use agents from that population instead.

Alpha was described as being a lot taller than the Alpha Legion marines in his Legion.

Is it too early to say this:

People think that the Alpha Legion has infiltrated the 55th Alphic Hydras. There is no supporting evidence at all.

I should probably just keep it in the other thread. (-:

 Trickstick wrote:
Is it too early to say this:

People think that the Alpha Legion has infiltrated the 55th Alphic Hydras. There is no supporting evidence at all.

I should probably just keep it in the other thread. (-:

This is still being discussed. It's also not common, barely anyone knows about this. It's also not a misconception, there's no evidence for or against, only speculation.

Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.

Yep. In the most hilarious example, Cypher was one of the leading members of the Nova Terra whachamacallit (IE, for a good chunk of time, he was on a council that ruled half of the Imperium, lol. ...that's actual fluff, btw)

That dark angel that was interrogated in one of the first Dark Angel short stories that revealed things weren't as they seemed was also a planetary governor for a time before he was caught, IIRC.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.

Yep. That's one of those things that you'd THINK was a misconception, but it's true. It's not really explained how this works, either. Do they all just say that they have some kind of growth hormone imbalance? I guess they could get away with it on backwaters that have never heard of Astartes, but the Fallen getting administratum jobs? Really?

 fallinq wrote:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.

Yep. That's one of those things that you'd THINK was a misconception, but it's true. It's not really explained how this works, either. Do they all just say that they have some kind of growth hormone imbalance? I guess they could get away with it on backwaters that have never heard of Astartes, but the Fallen getting administratum jobs? Really?

Possible. The nobility of the Imperium can access all kinds of upgrades. It's possible a few have managed to tamper with their own genes to some extent or just modified themselves in some other ways.
The governor of Vervunhive in Necropolis spent his entire time in a tank controlling the city from there. I imagine most people are happy to have a governor that's charismatic and intelligent for once rather than a raving loony...

Yeah, pg 13 of the 6th edition Dark Angels codex, 'The Hammer of Angels' story.

One of the Fallen is hiding as a regular human in a colony of miners.

I mean, really?

Also, the story where the Fallen is a planetary leader, would that be 'Angels of Darkness', by Gav Thorpe?

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Yeah, pg 13 of the 6th edition Dark Angels codex, 'The Hammer of Angels' story.

One of the Fallen is hiding as a regular human in a colony of miners.

I mean, really?

Also, the story where the Fallen is a planetary leader, would that be 'Angels of Darkness', by Gav Thorpe?

Not impossible though. Humans in 40k range from all manner of size, some get big enough to rival SM.

 purplefood wrote:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Yeah, pg 13 of the 6th edition Dark Angels codex, 'The Hammer of Angels' story.

One of the Fallen is hiding as a regular human in a colony of miners.

I mean, really?

Also, the story where the Fallen is a planetary leader, would that be 'Angels of Darkness', by Gav Thorpe?

Not impossible though. Humans in 40k range from all manner of size, some get big enough to rival SM.

We're all looking at you Gunnery Sergeant Harker...

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Yeah, pg 13 of the 6th edition Dark Angels codex, 'The Hammer of Angels' story.

One of the Fallen is hiding as a regular human in a colony of miners.

I mean, really?

Also, the story where the Fallen is a planetary leader, would that be 'Angels of Darkness', by Gav Thorpe?

Not impossible though. Humans in 40k range from all manner of size, some get big enough to rival SM.

We're all looking at you Gunnery Sergeant Harker...

And Try Again Bragg.

One common misconception is that Vandire was someone from the Ecclersiarchy. He was actually someone from the Administratum, and only after reaching the top position in the Administratum did he organized a coup to take over the Ecclesiarchy, executing the Ecclesiarch and usurping his place.

 Trickstick wrote:
Is it too early to say this:

People think that the Alpha Legion has infiltrated the 55th Alphic Hydras. There is no supporting evidence at all.

I should probably just keep it in the other thread. (-:

Except that there is actually evidence pointing to it, considering that we know there is an Alpha Legion cell making a move to take down the Ultramarines, and the Alphic Hydras are freakishly close to being an exact copy of the methods they used to kill two previous Chapters, in full. The only difference is that those were well hidden and this is quite a bit more blatant.

 fallinq wrote:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Aren't the Fallen known for hiding as planetary governors and as ordinary humans? There's a passage in the Dark Angels codex that says as much.

Yep. That's one of those things that you'd THINK was a misconception, but it's true. It's not really explained how this works, either. Do they all just say that they have some kind of growth hormone imbalance? I guess they could get away with it on backwaters that have never heard of Astartes, but the Fallen getting administratum jobs? Really?

Not all of the Fallen are the Astartes. Many in the number of the Dark Angels were actually the mortal humans from the Order ruled by Lion'el Johnson and Luther, who were then augmented to near Astartes levels in every way possible. They were also shorter than astartes, which causes some distress in some and feelings of inadequacy and fear of inferiority.

These are my favorite misconceptions

1) Slaanesh disciple are in constant euphoric state.

Truth: they are constantly searching it, but never getting it. Slaanesh is the god of excess not pleasure. He drives his disciple to the edge of experience in search of something they will never receive else it would be the end of excess.

2) Space Marine are too large to look like humans.

Truth: it is unlikely but possible. The average Space Marine is 7 foot tall and muscular. Ibram Gaunt was almost 7 foot tall and muscular, Colm Corbec was taller and Bragg even more. On our little universe, Shaq O'Neil measure 7`4. A Space Marine would looks like a very large (and usually ugly and foul smelling) person. Of course, their attitude and general way of being would betray them quite easily.

3) Chaos traitor are thousands of years old.

Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.

epronovost wrote:
2) Space Marine are too large to look like humans.

Truth: it is unlikely but possible. The average Space Marine is 7 foot tall and muscular. Ibram Gaunt was almost 7 foot tall and muscular, Colm Corbec was taller and Bragg even more. On our little universe, Shaq O'Neil measure 7`4. A Space Marine would looks like a very large (and usually ugly and foul smelling) person. Of course, their attitude and general way of being would betray them quite easily.

It probablty depends upon a given source's take on how tall Marines are. Dakka certainly can't agree how tall they are, and neither can the wider 40K canon.

epronovost wrote:


Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.

Which is a misconception in itself. There's plenty of veterans of the long war running around.

The 'few hundred years' thing was true for ADB's Night Lords, but the Warp is not predictable. It is just as likely to extend time as to shorten it. Some veterans may well be 100K years old or older still.

epronovost wrote:
These are my favorite misconceptions

1) Slaanesh disciple are in constant euphoric state.

Truth: they are constantly searching it, but never getting it. Slaanesh is the god of excess not pleasure. He drives his disciple to the edge of experience in search of something they will never receive else it would be the end of excess.

2) Space Marine are too large to look like humans.

Truth: it is unlikely but possible. The average Space Marine is 7 foot tall and muscular. Ibram Gaunt was almost 7 foot tall and muscular, Colm Corbec was taller and Bragg even more. On our little universe, Shaq O'Neil measure 7`4. A Space Marine would looks like a very large (and usually ugly and foul smelling) person. Of course, their attitude and general way of being would betray them quite easily.

3) Chaos traitor are thousands of years old.

Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.

Incorrect on Slaanesh. Tome of Excess and Fulgrim disagree with you there, if not fly directly in denial of what you say, Slaanesh does grant pleasure, but its drags its cultists around by constantly teasing and granting more. The point and power of Slaanesh is that it can always grant more experience for it exponentially increases, but in return the debauchery of the cultist must also increase and never stagnate. They are in a euphoric state, and many of the muations Slaanesh grants renders one in a state of both agonizing and wondrous constant pleasure. But there's always more, and more never ends.

And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
This can only be proven if Ron Jeremy's geneseed is used to make a marine chapter and so the shaft chapter was created famous for their insertion techniques and their problem of fitting into power armor!

"The missing legion is referred to as 'The Tripod Legion' in a series of ancient and graphically-heretical dataslates... of which there are numerous copies. Still apocryphal, though."

 PaperworkNinja wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
This can only be proven if Ron Jeremy's geneseed is used to make a marine chapter and so the shaft chapter was created famous for their insertion techniques and their problem of fitting into power armor!

"The missing legion is referred to as 'The Tripod Legion' in a series of ancient and graphically-heretical dataslates... of which there are numerous copies. Still apocryphal, though."

Ron Jeremy is one of the missing primarchs.

His legion specialists in surprise rear attacks, penetrating deep into enemy territory.

 Ashiraya wrote:

epronovost wrote:


Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.

Which is a misconception in itself. There's plenty of veterans of the long war running around.

The 'few hundred years' thing was true for ADB's Night Lords, but the Warp is not predictable. It is just as likely to extend time as to shorten it. Some veterans may well be 100K years old or older still.

He means the majority of Chaos Space Marines are not veterans due to sheer attrition.