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 Kain wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

epronovost wrote:


Truth: most of them never fought in the Great Crusade or even saw a Primarch alive. They are new recruits from other worlds. Even those who saw the great crusade feel like only a few hundred years have passed.

Which is a misconception in itself. There's plenty of veterans of the long war running around.

The 'few hundred years' thing was true for ADB's Night Lords, but the Warp is not predictable. It is just as likely to extend time as to shorten it. Some veterans may well be 100K years old or older still.

He means the majority of Chaos Space Marines are not veterans due to sheer attrition.

I answered the last sentence, which is extreme generalisation and incorrect.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Men who quote Vandire should know to fear the righteous wrath of women.

No pity, no remorse, no fear.

Sorry, I had to.

 Wyzilla wrote:

And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.

Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.

I don't know if this have been mentioned before, but there are people that believe that Macrage was only defended by the Ultramarines.
It was defended by far more than that, including a nice amount of Guardsmen from the neighboring sectors.

squidhills wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.

Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.

He won't be able to provide a source as there have been so many black library books that differ, try remembering what book you read 1 line of text in several years ago.

Misconeption: all space marines are the same size and cannot possibly vary between chapters or even planets they recruit from, as that would be useing common sense to plug an obvious inconsistency in the fluff, case in point, alexus polux of the imperial fists was huge even for a marine, almost primarch height infact.

 Formosa wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.

Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.

He won't be able to provide a source as there have been so many black library books that differ, try remembering what book you read 1 line of text in several years ago.

Misconeption: all space marines are the same size and cannot possibly vary between chapters or even planets they recruit from, as that would be useing common sense to plug an obvious inconsistency in the fluff, case in point, alexus polux of the imperial fists was huge even for a marine, almost primarch height infact.

Not to mention Alpha Legion, whose primarch was a bit smaller, and their marines big enough to mask Alphurius amongst them.

squidhills wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.

Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.

Really? The classic scale photo with Jes G has them at about 7 feet in power armor. TDA will likely get them to 8-9 feet

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

And the height of Astartes varies anywhere from seven to ten feet.

Source? Because all of the studio material I've seen puts Marine heights (out of armor) at between 7.5 to 8.0 ft tall. Armor seems to add another foot to that.

Really? The classic scale photo with Jes G has them at about 7 feet in power armor. TDA will likely get them to 8-9 feet

Yes, but you are forgetting that Jes G isn't accurately scaled IRL. He's supposed to be 28mm but he's really closer to 30mm.

Exalted.

I just found that while searching if there was any errata to the AS codex:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/yarrick-imperial-creed.html
And the important part (which is not that one more story is likely going to depict the Sisters as stupid ) :
“Sebastian Yarrick […] who Space Marine Chapter Masters show their fealty to on bended knee”
Yeah, chapter masters bend their knees to Yarrick. So long for “Marine outpower and disrespect everyone else in the Imperium”.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I just found that while searching if there was any errata to the AS codex:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/yarrick-imperial-creed.html
And the important part (which is not that one more story is likely going to depict the Sisters as stupid ) :
“Sebastian Yarrick […] who Space Marine Chapter Masters show their fealty to on bended knee”
Yeah, chapter masters bend their knees to Yarrick. So long for “Marine outpower and disrespect everyone else in the Imperium”.

Seems like the many, many quotes that state that 'The Space Marines are the best soldiers in the Imperium' to me.

Otherwise what, you trying to flamebait?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Seems like the many, many quotes that state that 'The Space Marines are the best soldiers in the Imperium' to me.

Not talking about who is the best soldier here. Those chapter masters would certainly kill Yarrick in a one-on-one fight, and maybe are able to match and maybe outmatch his tactical and strategical skills. I was referring to the political relations between marines and non-marines. About whether marines always act as jerk and consider every non-marine as an incompetent idiot or not.
And of course it is a flamebait, it is the whole point of this thread, it is not ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Seems like the many, many quotes that state that 'The Space Marines are the best soldiers in the Imperium' to me.

Not talking about who is the best soldier here. Those chapter masters would certainly kill Yarrick in a one-on-one fight, and maybe are able to match and maybe outmatch his tactical and strategical skills. I was referring to the political relations between marines and non-marines. About whether marines always act as jerk and consider every non-marine as an incompetent idiot or not.
And of course it is a flamebait, it is the whole point of this thread, it is not ?

That is not what I meant.

I meant that is basically 'look at how cool X is' and has no real grounding- much like how Space Marines are not the best soldiers in the Imperium (That would be the Custodes, or Grey Knights)

So, what you are saying is that Chapter Masters actually do not bend the knee to show their fealty to Yarrick, but rather [strawman]spit on him to show their mistrust and scorn[/strawman] ? Good for you .

Just saying it should be taken as a statement showing a certain amount of in-universe bias.

Even with some in-universe bias, it would mean that actually Chapter Masters treat Yarrick as an equal rather than considering him with scorn and mistrusts, would it not ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
one more story is likely going to depict the Sisters as stupid

Annandale actually wrote a pretty decent SoB character in another book, The Death of Antagonis. He even had said character kicking lots of ass and even holding her own against a Marine one on one, so his portrayal of them here might be allright.

Okay, then sorry for that inappropriate assumption. It is just that “fanatical people that stand between the hero and its mission” usually means idiots .

 Troike wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
one more story is likely going to depict the Sisters as stupid

Annandale actually wrote a pretty decent SoB character in another book, The Death of Antagonis. He even had said character kicking lots of ass and even holding her own against a Marine one on one, so his portrayal of them here might be allright.

Stronk SoB = good writing

I'll keep that in mind, then.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Stronk SoB = good writing

Not what he/she (sorry, forgot) said. We were talking about how the Sisters were portrayed, from my first message on this topic. Not about the quality of writings in general.
Why are you so negative today ?

Yarrick was elected to lead the third battle of Armegeddon even in the old fluff. Some of the people who voted for him were Space Marine Chapter Masters. As I stated in the AM thread, I don't recall anything as far as "bended knee" in the old fluff, but it's plausible/possible given that they elected him to lead them.

He also wrote that she had her entire minor order exterminated except for herself because they were becoming corrupted by extended exposure to Chaos, just so that he could include a single command-rank battle sister in a role normally given to Inquisitors, so he could cast his Inquisitor as a villain, without having to worry about her having a command to take care of.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Stronk SoB = good writing

Not what he/she (sorry, forgot) said. We were talking about how the Sisters were portrayed, from my first message on this topic. Not about the quality of writings in general.
Why are you so negative today ?

I still don't see how making a SoB strong is the primary quality (As implied in his post, since that is what he adressed) for making her good as a character.

 Troike wrote:
said character kicking lots of ass and even holding her own against a Marine one on one, so his portrayal of them here might be allright.

Well, I guess he/she must have mentioned that because sisters are usually displayed as quite weak, and so he/she wanted to show how that author did not fall to this usual, annoying to fans of the sisters, trope.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Stronk SoB = good writing

I'll keep that in mind, then.

No need to be like that, bud. I just cited those examples to show that the author has demonstrated respect for the SoB as fighters. Relevant, as a it's something of a recurring problem with SoB appearances in BL books that Sisters are beaten a bit too easily. I assumed that that was what Hybrid was concerned about.

Additionally, to expand on my earlier comment, Annadale did a fairly good job of characterising his SoB character. Obviously, there's more to writing a faction well than just having them do well in fights.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Not what he/she (sorry, forgot) said.

He.

Ok, sorry about that. I am pretty sure I asked already, but I forgot .

 Furyou Miko wrote:
He also wrote that she had her entire minor order exterminated except for herself because they were becoming corrupted by extended exposure to Chaos, just so that he could include a single command-rank battle sister in a role normally given to Inquisitors, so he could cast his Inquisitor as a villain, without having to worry about her having a command to take care of.

Sure, it wasn't a perfect portrayal. I didn't completely dislike the thing with the Minor Order, since I think it's mainly there to show off how cold and ruthless Setheno is. But I wasn't too sure about Setheno's rather fatalist view on her faith that she expressed at the end.

Still, on the whole, I think he did fairly well. I liked Setheno as a character and all that. If nothing else, his portrayal is far from the worst.

I was going to contribute, but found too many glaring ones to bother starting, clearly the majority of gamers do not read many books by the BL, and make their mind up based off the snippets they get from a codex.

I mean, I don't want to sound elitist or anything, there is nothing wrong with not being massively into reading or anything, its just that trying to be a clever dick despite not actually knowing much is a problem that has always confounded me, the amount of people that are happy to spout off despite the fact they know nothing constantly boggles my mind. If I haven't read something from a reliable source, I will hold my hands up and say "feth knows" but this seems to be a skill that the majority of the world has never mastered.

Its like when you see teenage students in seminary arguing about scientific principles with physicists, or farm laborers insisting their doctor knows nothing about the causes of heart disease, people just never seem to have grasped the fact there is nothing shameful in saying "I don't actually know"

Anyway yeah.. there are too many to mention, but If pressed for one, I would say the staggering number of ridiculousness about all things Space Marines, considering they are the most endlessly written about faction. This for example.....

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Marine disrespect everyone else in the Imperium”.

Is about as wrong as claiming the sky is green. I mean really, how many different sources are there about Marines being all Mary Sue and being polite and differential and addressing humans by rank? gak.. I think I read the Ultramarines trilogy years ago and one of them visited a Guardsman in hospital and took him a present and everything.

All of the misconceptions about the Primarchs piss me off too considering that by the time Scars has come out there isn't any ambiguity left and the 60% of the Primarchs are either Luke Skywalker good or Joffrey Baratheon bad.

 Troike wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Stronk SoB = good writing

I'll keep that in mind, then.

No need to be like that, bud. I just cited those examples to show that the author has demonstrated respect for the SoB as fighters. Relevant, as a it's something of a recurring problem with SoB appearances in BL books that Sisters are beaten a bit too easily. I assumed that that was what Hybrid was concerned about.

I see.

I interpreted your post another way.

In that case, I retract my earlier statement.

 mattyrm wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Marine disrespect everyone else in the Imperium”.

Just to make sure this is pretty clear, I was saying that this was a misconception people had. Because from your truncated quote, it seems like I pretend this is true.

 mattyrm wrote:
All of the misconceptions about the Primarchs piss me off too considering that by the time Scars has come out there isn't any ambiguity left and the 60% of the Primarchs are either Luke Skywalker good or Joffrey Baratheon bad.

So, Joffrey Baratheon is bad ?