Not sure if this has been posted somewhere before. but seems like battle brothers are next to gone!

Besides from the News and rumors.

I quite like it besides the boning of renegade IG and the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

I like how they rolled up Grey Knights, SM's and SOB all together in one block.

Except for the NINE Imperial armies that are all BBs, you mean?

Shame about Tau, though. Seems the whores of the galaxy contracted herpes or something.

 Thud wrote:
Except for the NINE Imperial armies that are all BBs, you mean?

Shame about Tau, though. Seems the whores of the galaxy contracted herpes or something.

Well yeah youd expect the imperium to work with the imperium. But i can see how maybe the inquisition might be desperate allies with like the SW's because of their mutations or something. But yeah outside of your own armies there arent that many. thats all i was saying. And im kinda glad they dumbed down the tau. Seems like everyone who was lacking either ranged or psykers were taking tau or eldar as allies. I think the allies thing is great but the armies are the game are created with certain strengths and weaknesses for a reason. If you can bypass that with allies then it kinda defeats the purpose imo.

I'll believe this is the actual allies matrix when I see it.

It's a big departure from the last one. Personally? Not a fan.

 Guilldog wrote:
I like how they rolled up Grey Knights, SM's and SOB all together in one block.

They rolled all the Imperial armies into one. So now Sisters are somehow BB with Space Wolves, and Space Wolves BB with the Inquisition and GK.

That makes no kind of sense.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:
I like how they rolled up Grey Knights, SM's and SOB all together in one block.

They rolled all the Imperial armies into one. So now Sisters are somehow BB with Space Wolves, and Space Wolves BB with the Inquisition and GK.

That makes no kind of sense.

Thats what i was saying. Cause as far as i know. SW's dont trust the inq one bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'll believe this is the actual allies matrix when I see it.

It's a big departure from the last one. Personally? Not a fan.

Not 100% certain but im pretty sure its legit.

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Oh no thats not what i meant.

Im aware of Tron

Im talking more of GK Palistar with IG or Sister Priest letting them reroll nemisis warding staves in CC.

Or Karmazov, Grandmaster, and 3 Techmarines all with OSR shoved onto a SM TFC with a SM chapter master dropping the literal bomb on one unit a turn. (without having to use red hunters from forge world)

im sure there are more. but personally (though i dont think dedicated transports will allow but still) would like to see a drop pod dropping in a eversor assassin, only for the visual.

IG/AM should be battle brothers with chaos, since they could be a corrupt human force. More likely then a corrupt space marine, yet they have their own codex.

 Desubot wrote:
Oh no thats not what i meant.

Im aware of Tron

Im talking more of GK Palistar with IG or Sister Priest letting them reroll nemisis warding staves in CC.

Or Karmazov, Grandmaster, and 3 Techmarines all with OSR shoved onto a SM TFC with a SM chapter master dropping the literal bomb on one unit a turn. (without having to use red hunters from forge world)

im sure there are more. but personally (though i dont think dedicated transports will allow but still) would like to see a drop pod dropping in a eversor assassin, only for the visual.

Hmm i wonder what the allied rules will be regaurding dedicated transports. Id love to put some GK interceptors into drop pods


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 invisiblade wrote:
IG/AM should be battle brothers with chaos, since they could be a corrupt human force. More likely then a corrupt space marine, yet they have their own codex.

Maybe not battle brothers, but it would make sense if they released a supplement for them. A subset of rules for traitor and possessed IG. And an army list from that supplement would be BB with CSM and Daemons.

Azreal with Paladins.

I don't see the removal of dedicated transports happening that would make that possible.

Congrats Imperium of Man, you guys get the super special treatment yet again...


Overall it's better than the last one, but I agree with others that the likes of IG/AM, Sisters & Inquisition should've been handled differently.
No more Traitor Guard makes Chaos sad, and the only part of the Inquisition that should ever be BB would be the Deathwatch. The rest of 'em, Sisters, Inquisitors and the Grey Knights especially should not be BFF's with all their other Imperial buds.

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Congrats Imperium of Man, you guys get the super special treatment yet again...


Overall it's better than the last one, but I agree with others that the likes of IG/AM, Sisters & Inquisition should've been handled differently.
No more Traitor Guard makes Chaos sad, and the only part of the Inquisition that should ever be BB would be the Deathwatch. The rest of 'em, Sisters, Inquisitors and the Grey Knights especially should not be BFF's with all their other Imperial buds.

Agreed, especially since IG and 99% of other SM arent supposed to know GK even exists


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bookwrack wrote:
I don't see the removal of dedicated transports happening that would make that possible.

Maybe not the removal. But it would be neat if BB could share the same dedicated transport. That would be possible and make sense even.

While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

This wont hurt jetseer :(

Experiment 626 wrote:
Congrats Imperium of Man, you guys get the super special treatment yet again...


Overall it's better than the last one, but I agree with others that the likes of IG/AM, Sisters & Inquisition should've been handled differently.
No more Traitor Guard makes Chaos sad, and the only part of the Inquisition that should ever be BB would be the Deathwatch. The rest of 'em, Sisters, Inquisitors and the Grey Knights especially should not be BFF's with all their other Imperial buds.

Agreed, especially since IG and 99% of other SM arent supposed to know GK even exists

If necessary, they are allowed to know of their existence for the duration of the campaign, but are killed/mind wiped after it's over by the inquisition.

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Aren't all armies of the golden throne defending mankind in the name of the Emperor?

Its the will of the Emperor!

Some of them are also busy purging the heretical filth that has come to infest the Emperor's domain.

 invisiblade wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Congrats Imperium of Man, you guys get the super special treatment yet again...


Overall it's better than the last one, but I agree with others that the likes of IG/AM, Sisters & Inquisition should've been handled differently.
No more Traitor Guard makes Chaos sad, and the only part of the Inquisition that should ever be BB would be the Deathwatch. The rest of 'em, Sisters, Inquisitors and the Grey Knights especially should not be BFF's with all their other Imperial buds.

Agreed, especially since IG and 99% of other SM arent supposed to know GK even exists

If necessary, they are allowed to know of their existence for the duration of the campaign, but are killed/mind wiped after it's over by the inquisition.

If im going to help and then kill ALL of the people i just helped... that doesnt sound like battle buddies to me. That'd be like having SF come in and provide support for a mission and then killing off the battalion they just helped....seems kinda backwards. I mean i understand it fluff wise but for in game purposes it doesnt add up to battle brother imo.

The problem is when you come to the table of diplomacy with Nids - they just eat the table; and then you.

It's kind of why I never like games like this getting official allies setups. Because its nearly always broken unless its designed right into the core of the games rules and army styles from the start.

Otherwise I'd just say "play with one army" in the rules and then "sure if you and a friend want to team up you can even with different armies that in the lore would want to tear each other apart).

That way you don't have one army left without allies; or armies that shouldn't be together suddenly together; or combos that are stupidly overpowered when using the chart because two armies are allied based upon fluff, but game stats wise compliment each other too well.

It makes sense to me that the Imperium is allied under on banner - push comes to shove most of those forces would fight side by side against xenos even if they hate each others guts.

As for things like Traitor Guard - I suspect that GW views them now as a conversion option only - you can certainly have Traitor Guard converted Guard, but they will fight exactly like Guardsmen with the same allies limits.

 Byte wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Aren't all armies of the golden throne defending mankind in the name of the Emperor?

Its the will of the Emperor!

Yeah i can understand that logic. But i also know Ordo Hereticus would purge half the SM armies out there given the chance, due to gene seed mutations that can be seen as Heresy. just sayin.

I really hope they haven't excluded MT Scions from the Armies of the Imperium. I see AM, but the Scions have their own codex...

And I thought Eldar and Dark Eldar hated each other.

 Byte wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Aren't all armies of the golden throne defending mankind in the name of the Emperor?

Its the will of the Emperor!

The Imperium is so vast that its got a lot of internal power struggles; as a result you've a lot of factions that hate each other to the point where they do war with each other. It's like Lords having duels - yes they are all united under the same king, but they'd still duel and fight each other in their own power struggle.

Virtus wrote:
I really hope they haven't excluded MT Scions from the Armies of the Imperium. I see AM, but the Scions have their own codex...

And I thought Eldar and Dark Eldar hated each other.

As far as i know Eldar and DE dont hate each other to the point they will not work together. I believe the Eldar pity the DE more than hate them but they still see them as brothers and they are willing to work with them for the sake of saving the race as a whole. Its been awhile since i read eldar fluff but im pretty sure thats close to accurate.

 Overread wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Aren't all armies of the golden throne defending mankind in the name of the Emperor?

Its the will of the Emperor!

The Imperium is so vast that its got a lot of internal power struggles; as a result you've a lot of factions that hate each other to the point where they do war with each other. It's like Lords having duels - yes they are all united under the same king, but they'd still duel and fight each other in their own power struggle.

and now they all submit to the will of the God-Emperor against the common enemies of mankind.

Necrons got nerfed! Anyone want 60 Ork Boyz?

But I like the chart!

 Byte wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Aren't all armies of the golden throne defending mankind in the name of the Emperor?

Its the will of the Emperor!

The Imperium is so vast that its got a lot of internal power struggles; as a result you've a lot of factions that hate each other to the point where they do war with each other. It's like Lords having duels - yes they are all united under the same king, but they'd still duel and fight each other in their own power struggle.

and now they all submit to the will of the God-Emperor against the common enemies of mankind.

You know now that you say that i really wonder if they are gonna jack up the fluff to make it match the game. Like "Oh hey all of mankind gets along now and no more secrets or anything they just wanna fight everyone else now, ok bye!" that would kinda piss me off. not saying its likely but then again wouldnt be the first time something like that has been done either.

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Aren't all armies of the golden throne defending mankind in the name of the Emperor?

Its the will of the Emperor!

The Imperium is so vast that its got a lot of internal power struggles; as a result you've a lot of factions that hate each other to the point where they do war with each other. It's like Lords having duels - yes they are all united under the same king, but they'd still duel and fight each other in their own power struggle.

and now they all submit to the will of the God-Emperor against the common enemies of mankind.

You know now that you say that i really wonder if they are gonna jack up the fluff to make it match the game. Like "Oh hey all of mankind gets along now and no more secrets or anything they just wanna fight everyone else now, ok bye!" that would kinda piss me off. not saying its likely but then again wouldnt be the first time something like that has been done either.

Nah, I don't suspect that will happen. All the inner angst will exists, but when the bullets start to fly all the differences dissolve away(according to the new allies chart).

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
the strange tau cron AoC.

I cant wait to see the abuse.

Nothing new about this, I've been abusing this for 2 years. Trons.

I like the new chart.

I agree with the other guy in that they shouldnt have rolled the inquistion, ALL the space marine chapters and the IG into one lump.

Aren't all armies of the golden throne defending mankind in the name of the Emperor?

Its the will of the Emperor!

The Imperium is so vast that its got a lot of internal power struggles; as a result you've a lot of factions that hate each other to the point where they do war with each other. It's like Lords having duels - yes they are all united under the same king, but they'd still duel and fight each other in their own power struggle.

and now they all submit to the will of the God-Emperor against the common enemies of mankind.

You know now that you say that i really wonder if they are gonna jack up the fluff to make it match the game. Like "Oh hey all of mankind gets along now and no more secrets or anything they just wanna fight everyone else now, ok bye!" that would kinda piss me off. not saying its likely but then again wouldnt be the first time something like that has been done either.

That won't happen, because you'll still have imperium vs imperium. It's just that your generals are getting along for this campaign, even if you're fighting 'yourself' against another imperial army.

 jasper76 wrote:
Necrons got nerfed! Anyone want 60 Ork Boyz?

But I like the chart!

I'll take 'em!

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

Well fortunately for me every heavy weapon Slot I can take has Plasma and my Plasma wont melt in my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even my basic troops can have a 36" plasma weapon >.>

Yeah, I really think the Imperium setup should have been separate line items for Guard, Marines (except GK), and Inq/GK/SoB. Not sure which category Knights would belong to, but probably in with Marines. Guard should be Battle Brothers with Marines, Allies of Convenience with Inquisition (too much distrust on the =][='s part), Chaos Marines (renegades), Tau (Gue'vesa), and Orks (using Blood Axe mercs), Desperate Allies with Dark Eldar, and Come the Apocalypse with Daemons, Necron, and Nids. =][= should be BB with Marines, Convenience with Guard and Eldar (can usually be trusted about as far as you can throw them, which is still better than other xenos), Come the Apocalypse with Nids and both Chaos, and Desperate with the rest.

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

Clearly you missed the buff that is Tyranids can actually ally with some!!!

It just so happens to be more 'Nids. Take that as you will, but we can now say that Tyranids aren't totally screwed (3 Flyrants without Double FoC anyone?).

 Bludbaff wrote:
Yeah, I really think the Imperium setup should have been separate line items for Guard, Marines (except GK), and Inq/GK/SoB. Not sure which category Knights would belong to, but probably in with Marines. Guard should be Battle Brothers with Marines, Allies of Convenience with Inquisition (too much distrust on the =][='s part), Chaos Marines (renegades), Tau (Gue'vesa), and Orks (using Blood Axe mercs), Desperate Allies with Dark Eldar, and Come the Apocalypse with Daemons, Necron, and Nids. =][= should be BB with Marines, Convenience with Guard and Eldar (can usually be trusted about as far as you can throw them, which is still better than other xenos), Come the Apocalypse with Nids and both Chaos, and Desperate with the rest.

I agree IG and SM should be BB and they should have SOB/GK/INQ as BB together and allies of conviences to the others (SM/IG). The reason being is GK work for the INQ and not with the rest of the SM is all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ace101 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

Clearly you missed the buff that is Tyranids can actually ally with some!!!

It just so happens to be more 'Nids. Take that as you will, but we can now say that Tyranids aren't totally screwed (3 Flyrants without Double FoC anyone?).

Thats just....... just..... unfair T.T

 Guilldog wrote:
[

 ace101 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

Clearly you missed the buff that is Tyranids can actually ally with some!!!

It just so happens to be more 'Nids. Take that as you will, but we can now say that Tyranids aren't totally screwed (3 Flyrants without Double FoC anyone?).

Thats just....... just..... unfair T.T

Add Skyblight on to that and we have a true Flying Circus.

Just on the traitor guard stuff, don't the Cultists have the same stats and much of the same weaponry as the AM?

 baxter123 wrote:
Just on the traitor guard stuff, don't the Cultists have the same stats and much of the same weaponry as the AM?

If by same you mean have access to heavy weapon squad, orders, special weapons, tanks, and artillery? not to mention flying las cannon boxs and now un godly ammounts of divination psykers?

The text in focus talks about the blood angels / necrons brofist, despite being CTA. Makes me want to see what the actual rules are.

If CTA is the old DA, then folks can still have their renegade guard.

Glad to see battle brothers makes a little more sense this time around.

 Desubot wrote:

 baxter123 wrote:
Just on the traitor guard stuff, don't the Cultists have the same stats and much of the same weaponry as the AM?

If by same you mean have access to heavy weapon squad, orders, special weapons, tanks, and artillery? not to mention flying las cannon boxs and now un godly ammounts of divination psykers?

ill even add to this that the IG have better weapons ( cultists have auto-pistols) compared to lasguns for the same cost and i think they get grenades too iirc.

yeah this matrix is lame.
IOM sooo many fluff no no's there
CSM are better friends with orks and dark eldar than IG? wait what?

yeah i dont entirely get dumping all the IOM stuff into one. i can understand if it was marines-->IG-->GK + SOB + Inq --> that kind of thing but that would just tell us how the next round of codecies would look as compiling the books would seem to be on the cards.

pros;
taudar only AOC.

this will depend on how the rules for desperate allies and AOC works... because isnt it that the come the apoc side is just dont deploy within 12" then its DA. so ill reserve total judgement but not overly impressed..

 ace101 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

Clearly you missed the buff that is Tyranids can actually ally with some!!!

It just so happens to be more 'Nids. Take that as you will, but we can now say that Tyranids aren't totally screwed (3 Flyrants without Double FoC anyone?).

Yeah, I think Tyranids have improved markedly with the new Alliance chart...
1. We now get free slots. Seriously, who wasn't already take 3 troops with Tyranids?
2. Most of the Battle brother combos have been reduced. 2 out of the big 3 (Taudar and TauMarines, not D/Eldar) have been nerfed.
3. Imperial Armies BB will increase, but usually there is less cheese. Also, it will all be to include Psychic Buffs, which Nids can deny with (hopefully, FAQ pending) greater ease than others. No more Buffmanders!

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

Well fortunately for me every heavy weapon Slot I can take has Plasma and my Plasma wont melt in my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even my basic troops can have a 36" plasma weapon >.>

And this is why i DS/Shunt with my GK's all those shiney plama weapons dont mean sqaut when you have a bunch of guys with power weapons pounding your face into the earth! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

There's nothing unfluffy about all Imperial armies being battle-brothers with one another.

If by same you mean have access to heavy weapon squad, orders, special weapons, tanks, and artillery? not to mention flying las cannon boxs and now un godly ammounts of divination psykers?

ill even add to this that the IG have better weapons ( cultists have auto-pistols) compared to lasguns for the same cost and i think they get grenades too iirc.

yeah this matrix is lame.
IOM sooo many fluff no no's there
CSM are better friends with orks and dark eldar than IG? wait what?

yeah i dont entirely get dumping all the IOM stuff into one. i can understand if it was marines-->IG-->GK + SOB + Inq --> that kind of thing but that would just tell us how the next round of codecies would look as compiling the books would seem to be on the cards.

Like i said i think they should make a supplement for the IG for traitor gaurd. And yeah thats what i was saying SM+IG and SOB+GK+INQ for BB and maybe make those two groups as AOC. That would solve the problem of the IG having better weapons the the cultist for the same price and allow another way for IG to be played. And to top it off the traitor gaurd could have access to the deamon powers everyone is so up in arms about leaving the regular IG pure to fight for the IOM.

 Guilldog wrote:

If by same you mean have access to heavy weapon squad, orders, special weapons, tanks, and artillery? not to mention flying las cannon boxs and now un godly ammounts of divination psykers?

ill even add to this that the IG have better weapons ( cultists have auto-pistols) compared to lasguns for the same cost and i think they get grenades too iirc.

yeah this matrix is lame.
IOM sooo many fluff no no's there
CSM are better friends with orks and dark eldar than IG? wait what?

yeah i dont entirely get dumping all the IOM stuff into one. i can understand if it was marines-->IG-->GK + SOB + Inq --> that kind of thing but that would just tell us how the next round of codecies would look as compiling the books would seem to be on the cards.

Like i said i think they should make a supplement for the IG for traitor gaurd. And yeah thats what i was saying SM+IG and SOB+GK+INQ for BB and maybe make those two groups as AOC. That would solve the problem of the IG having better weapons the the cultist for the same price and allow another way for IG to be played. And to top it off the traitor gaurd could have access to the deamon powers everyone is so up in arms about leaving the regular IG pure to fight for the IOM.

i agree with you, or just an FAQ/erratta to say IG may be traitor guard (not gonna happen) but yes thats what it should be... i mean IG should be AOC with juuust about everyone lol feed them and they fight.

though as i said as well if they did that, then you can forsee the incoming codex squish...

No one here thinks that the company that brought you Codex: Legion of the Damned and Codex: IG Stormtroopers won't try to sell you a digital codex for traitor guard, an army list which has in some form existed in the past?

 greyknight12 wrote:
No one here thinks that the company that brought you Codex: Legion of the Damned and Codex: IG Stormtroopers won't try to sell you a digital codex for traitor guard, an army list which has in some form existed in the past?

OMG please... ill take a digital one here and NOW lol...
i am waiting for all my 7th ed ammendments on all my other ones too.

 greyknight12 wrote:
No one here thinks that the company that brought you Codex: Legion of the Damned and Codex: IG Stormtroopers won't try to sell you a digital codex for traitor guard, an army list which has in some form existed in the past?

Thats exactly what i think will happen.

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

Well fortunately for me every heavy weapon Slot I can take has Plasma and my Plasma wont melt in my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even my basic troops can have a 36" plasma weapon >.>

And this is why i DS/Shunt with my GK's all those shiney plama weapons dont mean sqaut when you have a bunch of guys with power weapons pounding your face into the earth! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah DS right next to my dudes so that I can gun you down... Eldar are pretty much king of killing armor with their new Bladestorm rule. 40 S4 shots with BS4. I might not get alot of wounds but every 6 I roll is auto wounding at AP2...

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

Well fortunately for me every heavy weapon Slot I can take has Plasma and my Plasma wont melt in my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even my basic troops can have a 36" plasma weapon >.>

And this is why i DS/Shunt with my GK's all those shiney plama weapons dont mean sqaut when you have a bunch of guys with power weapons pounding your face into the earth! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah DS right next to my dudes so that I can gun you down... Eldar are pretty much king of killing armor with their new Bladestorm rule. 40 S4 shots with BS4. I might not get alot of wounds but every 6 I roll is auto wounding at AP2...

iknow there pseudo rending is pretty sweet i had myself a decent eldar army a little while ago. Just saying it all depends on how everything is set up and the game really but yeah youd prolly get a couple but when i get into cc heaven help you lol.

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

Well fortunately for me every heavy weapon Slot I can take has Plasma and my Plasma wont melt in my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even my basic troops can have a 36" plasma weapon >.>

And this is why i DS/Shunt with my GK's all those shiney plama weapons dont mean sqaut when you have a bunch of guys with power weapons pounding your face into the earth! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah DS right next to my dudes so that I can gun you down... Eldar are pretty much king of killing armor with their new Bladestorm rule. 40 S4 shots with BS4. I might not get alot of wounds but every 6 I roll is auto wounding at AP2...

iknow there pseudo rending is pretty sweet i had myself a decent eldar army a little while ago. Just saying it all depends on how everything is set up and the game really but yeah youd prolly get a couple but when i get into cc heaven help you lol.

I don't know... I have won some pretty sick combat against space marines with guardians... And made them flee! If I am close enough to shoot at you with guardians I am probably close enough to assault you too... I would deffinately shoot you 40 times followed by a 40 attack assault... and seeing as hiw even guardians are initative 5... I might get a few more with close combat attacks and sacrifice a low cost unit in return for it.

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

Well fortunately for me every heavy weapon Slot I can take has Plasma and my Plasma wont melt in my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even my basic troops can have a 36" plasma weapon >.>

And this is why i DS/Shunt with my GK's all those shiney plama weapons dont mean sqaut when you have a bunch of guys with power weapons pounding your face into the earth! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah DS right next to my dudes so that I can gun you down... Eldar are pretty much king of killing armor with their new Bladestorm rule. 40 S4 shots with BS4. I might not get alot of wounds but every 6 I roll is auto wounding at AP2...

iknow there pseudo rending is pretty sweet i had myself a decent eldar army a little while ago. Just saying it all depends on how everything is set up and the game really but yeah youd prolly get a couple but when i get into cc heaven help you lol.

I don't know... I have won some pretty sick combat against space marines with guardians... And made them flee! If I am close enough to shoot at you with guardians I am probably close enough to assault you too... I would deffinately shoot you 40 times followed by a 40 attack assault... and seeing as hiw even guardians are initative 5... I might get a few more with close combat attacks and sacrifice a low cost unit in return for it.

lol yeah thats does sound scary but like i said it all depends on table, terrain and timing. We could what if forever. I mean yeah thats alot of attacks, but im pretty sure draigo 9 pali's with and apothacary + a DK close by could eat it, turn around and ruin that units day. and GK's dont run! like i said i'd have to meet you and the table and toss the dice lol!

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 invisiblade wrote:
Azreal with Paladins.

and an apothecary giving him FNP. Take him as one HQ and Draigo as the other and run them with 9 Palis and an Apothecary. talk about a CC nightmare.

Shoot it off the board... KILL IT WITH PLASMA!

nasty thought aint it.

Well fortunately for me every heavy weapon Slot I can take has Plasma and my Plasma wont melt in my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even my basic troops can have a 36" plasma weapon >.>

And this is why i DS/Shunt with my GK's all those shiney plama weapons dont mean sqaut when you have a bunch of guys with power weapons pounding your face into the earth! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah DS right next to my dudes so that I can gun you down... Eldar are pretty much king of killing armor with their new Bladestorm rule. 40 S4 shots with BS4. I might not get alot of wounds but every 6 I roll is auto wounding at AP2...

iknow there pseudo rending is pretty sweet i had myself a decent eldar army a little while ago. Just saying it all depends on how everything is set up and the game really but yeah youd prolly get a couple but when i get into cc heaven help you lol.

I don't know... I have won some pretty sick combat against space marines with guardians... And made them flee! If I am close enough to shoot at you with guardians I am probably close enough to assault you too... I would deffinately shoot you 40 times followed by a 40 attack assault... and seeing as hiw even guardians are initative 5... I might get a few more with close combat attacks and sacrifice a low cost unit in return for it.

lol yeah thats does sound scary but like i said it all depends on table, terrain and timing. We could what if forever. I mean yeah thats alot of attacks, but im pretty sure draigo 9 pali's with and apothacary + a DK close by could eat it, turn around and ruin that units day. and GK's dont run! like i said i'd have to meet you and the table and toss the dice lol!

LOL maybe ill get stationed out in Hawaii one day. The we can have our matchup.

I leave hawaii in two weeks. But who knows its a small world

I feel better now that I procrastinated on building the gravstar with buffmander.

 ace101 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

Clearly you missed the buff that is Tyranids can actually ally with some!!!

It just so happens to be more 'Nids. Take that as you will, but we can now say that Tyranids aren't totally screwed (3 Flyrants without Double FoC anyone?).

True, but if I'm reading it right, EVERYONE can ally with themselves, yeah?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nobody wrote:
I feel better now that I procrastinated on building the gravstar with buffmander.

Oh, I got lots of use out of the Buffmander before it went away. So delightful. I think I may try to get one more game in with him attached to a 4 plasma cannon devastator squad.

 Guilldog wrote:
I leave hawaii in two weeks. But who knows its a small world

Well maybe your coming closer to where I am lol.

I don't see the problem with all Imperial armies being battle-brothers with one another. Grey Knights murdered some Sisters? Space Wolves and the Inquisition have come to blows? Who cares? These are all isolated incidences over the long view. Who knows how many times the GK and Sisters have gotten together just fine over the course of the Imperium's 10,000 year existence? Space Wolves and the Inquisition had no problem fighting together before the 1st war for Armageddon, and even afterwards the fluff makes note that there are Inquisitors who have no problem with the Wolves, even taking their side during the Post-Armageddon conflict.

It's silly to assume that a few incidences can influence the relationship between two *massive* factions over the course of thousands of years, especially in a game where it's heavily implied (and encouraged) that the games take place at different points in the fluff.

At the end of the day, all Imperial factions are Imperials. They might not "get along" and they might even have power-struggles and whatnot, but they're still Human. It doesn't matter how much they hate each other, they'll always band together to fight xenos, traitors and daemons.

Good i haven't bought more ig as allies for my orkses yet. Though, i'll have to think what to do with the ones i got.

Feh, I just run everyone as AoC or BBs with everyone else, 'tis more balanced and the fluff rape can be handwaved with mind control and counts as.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't see the problem with all Imperial armies being battle-brothers with one another. Grey Knights murdered some Sisters? Space Wolves and the Inquisition have come to blows? Who cares? These are all isolated incidences over the long view. Who knows how many times the GK and Sisters have gotten together just fine over the course of the Imperium's 10,000 year existence? Space Wolves and the Inquisition had no problem fighting together before the 1st war for Armageddon, and even afterwards the fluff makes note that there are Inquisitors who have no problem with the Wolves, even taking their side during the Post-Armageddon conflict.

It's silly to assume that a few incidences can influence the relationship between two *massive* factions over the course of thousands of years, especially in a game where it's heavily implied (and encouraged) that the games take place at different points in the fluff.

At the end of the day, all Imperial factions are Imperials. They might not "get along" and they might even have power-struggles and whatnot, but they're still Human. It doesn't matter how much they hate each other, they'll always band together to fight xenos, traitors and daemons.

Fluff-wise? It's dumb.

Game balance-wise?

Why is it dumb?

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

call me when another race learns to speak nid

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why is it dumb?

For aforementioned reasons previously. And as a former Space Wolf player, no, they wouldn't play nice with the Inquisition. They're still Legion strong defying all mandates on the matter. The Dark Angels would also not pal it up with Inquisition.

The Sisters are now Battle Brother/Allies of Convenience with any psyker and his brother, including the Eldar. What about Abhor the Witch is hard to reckon with?

Yea, it's silly made up man-play-time-fantasies, but if they're just going to disregard the fiction when it's convenient, then it's going to kill any suspension of disbelief.

And, let me reiterate, the game balance...

 TheKbob wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why is it dumb?

For aforementioned reasons previously. And as a former Space Wolf player, no, they wouldn't play nice with the Inquisition. They're still Legion strong defying all mandates on the matter. The Dark Angels would also not pal it up with Inquisition.

The Sisters are now Battle Brother/Allies of Convenience with any psyker and his brother, including the Eldar. What about Abhor the Witch is hard to reckon with?

People are applying a definition to "battle-brothers" that doesn't actually exist. . Two factions being BBs with one another does not mean that they "get along" or "play nice" with one another. Two factions being battle-brothers does not mean that they invite each other to their kids' birthdays and go to bars after work. The different tiers of allies is a gauge of two factions ability to work together in a professional manner. Can they communicate well enough to formulate strategies or coordinate strategies? Do they have working knowledge and familiarity with their allies' units capabilities and limits? Can they trust the faction they're working with to not shoot them in the back while they're charging the enemy? That's the point of the ally tiers. Logain Grimnar might not like Sisters of Battle, but he could probably lead them to victory in combat if it came down to it, and trust them to not set his ass on fire when his back is turned. Could he do the same with a Cabal of Dark Eldar, though? Probably not. Tyranids? Tau? No.

That's the point of Battle-Brothers. How well the factions get along outside of combat is irrelevant. They're all Imperials, working for the God-Emperor, and when they find themselves surrounded by a horde of daemons or pushing back Hive Leviathan, it's expected that they're going to nut up and pool their resources like the professional soldiers they are.

 TheKbob wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why is it dumb?

For aforementioned reasons previously. And as a former Space Wolf player, no, they wouldn't play nice with the Inquisition. They're still Legion strong defying all mandates on the matter. The Dark Angels would also not pal it up with Inquisition.

But the Inquisition isn't a single, coherent entity. It's a extremely lose organisation made up of wildly different guys having nothing more in common than the well being of the human race. How this is done, through what means and what kind of end result can warry as much as there are inquisitors. So for every inquisitor wanting to purge the space wolves as abominations or suspecting the dark angels for heresy there is one thinking these chapters make a bloody fine job in keeping mankind safe from the heretic and the mutant. And you can't realy become a chapter master without being aware of this fact and and using it to the chapter's benefit, ie. working with those inquisitors that see these chapters in a favorable light.

And this is why inquisitors as battle brothers make sense, because the ones you ally with are the ones that like you not the ones wanting to purge you, they in turn are represented by any Inquisitors used by your opponent when you play.

No cheese combos for Orks here, but that seems appropriate anyway.

Nice to see Tau (and Eldar, I suppose) getting hit where it hurts - right in the cheese.

 ionusx wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

call me when another race learns to speak nid

Mind control solves all problems!

Just ask this guy.

Was it said anywhere , if a warforged army can take battlebroter unbound ally ?

I like it.

It's much better than previously, where in a supposedly grimdark universe everyone was best buddies and there were more TauDar combinations than Imperium armies.

A bit sad that my only choice as crons are orks, CSM and Tau.
Ah well, time to bust out the plague marines again...

From a gameplay point of view, I like it. It opens up some interesting options in terms of allies for my Sisters ("interesting" meaning combinations that look cool as well as combinations deisgned to roflstomp everything).

I also like it overall in terms of fluff. All of the Imperial forces have become suitably xenophobic and intolerant, and the other forces look more or less correct too. Though I do agree that all Imperial forces being BBs probably isn't the best reflection of the fluff. And in terms of gameplay, it opens up minor instances of "weirdness", like a Space Marine being inspired by the hymns of a priest when Space Marines aren't into the Imperial Creed. But still, I suppose it can be justified to some extent with the Imperium "closing ranks" in the face of a looming threat.

(I know that the above assessment was rather Imperium-centric, but they're my main focus as a 40K fan. I accpet that fans of other armies might have their grievances with it).

Oh, and I almost forgot! Templars and Sisters can now be Battle Brothers at last!

 Psienesis wrote:
and Space Wolves BB with the Inquisition

They were already Battle Bros before this new allies matrix, though. But that's probably more to do with the Inquisition functioning as an allies army than an accurate representation of fluff.

 greyknight12 wrote:
No one here thinks that the company that brought you Codex: Legion of the Damned and Codex: IG Stormtroopers won't try to sell you a digital codex for traitor guard, an army list which has in some form existed in the past?

Well... For whatever it's worth, they did once say that they viewed traitor Guard as "not different enough from regular Guard" to warrent a codex. But now that I think of it, a supplement-type thing might be plausible, were they to go for it.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People are applying a definition to "battle-brothers" that doesn't actually exist. . Two factions being BBs with one another does not mean that they "get along" or "play nice" with one another.

It does constitute trust, though, right? And some sort of respect? And in that, I can understand the criticisms of it. The Sisters and Wolves, for example, aren't going to have a great deal of trust nor respect. The Sisters are intolerant, orderly and zealous and the Space Wolves are anti-authority, rowdy, and look even more mutated than the average Space Marine. There's also that incident where the Sisters attempted to invade Fenris. So yeah, with examples like that, I'd definetely say that some of the Imperials would make more sense as allies of convinience at least.

N-n-n-n-nidfest!

Chaos and Daemons sitting in a tree
Ignoring my new IG army.

D:<

Got the damn army to give me some fire support.

CSM = Fked again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gee Dubs be like "but humanity's faith is incorruptible!"

CSM be like: "Just fking kill us off already then, you damn pansies!"

I'm really glad the allies matrix isn't a joke this time, but I'm a little worried about our Eldar overlords.

From wrote:
I'm really glad the allies matrix isn't a joke this time, but I'm a little worried about our Eldar overlords.

If by "not a joke" you mean ridiculously biased in favor of the Imperium, then yes.

Looks like Chaos and the Xenos are going to be taking it up the ass this edition.

Sigh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:
Chaos and Daemons sitting in a tree
Ignoring my new IG army.

D:<

Got the damn army to give me some fire support.

CSM = Fked again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gee Dubs be like "but humanity's faith is incorruptible!"

CSM be like: "Just fking kill us off already then, you damn pansies!"

Hey, got room over there in the "Fked again" list for the recently screwed Xeno armies who aren't elves?

The only Xeno army who gained anything was the Tyranids, who can now spam themselves more. Which is still akin to a bandage on the festering wound that is the 6e codex.

Prefer it greatly to the last one, because at least the BB's make sense now.

I do wish Orks were DA with Imperium though. Would help making up for a lack of BB and only one AOC

Literally only Tyranids have it worse than us. And at least Tyranids can kick some ass

 Kain wrote:

From wrote:
I'm really glad the allies matrix isn't a joke this time, but I'm a little worried about our Eldar overlords.

If by "not a joke" you mean ridiculously biased in favor of the Imperium, then yes.

Looks like Chaos and the Xenos are going to be taking it up the ass this edition.

Sigh.

No by "not a joke" I meant "not a joke" maybe we will start to see more traditional Warhammer armies

I want to see if the wording/definitions for BB/AoC/DA/CtA are different than 6th.

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
I want to see if the wording/definitions for BB/AoC/DA/CtA are different than 6th.

well you have a few more days to wait for that brother.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
(...)
At the end of the day, all Imperial factions are Imperials. They might not "get along" and they might even have power-struggles and whatnot, but they're still Human. It doesn't matter how much they hate each other, they'll always band together to fight xenos, traitors and daemons.

For me, that is is the definition of "Allies of Convenience".

Imagine you are a general or something and one of your subordinate commanders come in and inform you that he won a battle, but he allied with X. There are four options about why:
1) Why not? They are our trusted fiends. It is natural for us to help them. They are our brothers.
2) I know they are jerks, I know we cannot trust them, but it was convenient. Perhaps we could have won without them, but it was easier this way.
3) The situation was dire. We desperately need to win the battle. I had no other option. I know I am tainted, and I will submit myself to punishment for this unacceptable cursed alliance.
4) You did what?? Heresy: BLAM!

I didn´t get it when people defend the Tau-SM BB abomination thing saying that there had been ocassions were they joined to fight a common enemy out of desperation. That is Desperate Allies.


Game wise, I think it simplifies it to have all the Imperials being BB. It is not fluff-friendly, but I have seen worse. The same goes for Eldar and Dark Eldar. If they do not trust each other they should not be Battle Brothers, they should be Allies of Convenience.

The matrix is better than the last. Only three major WTF.
- No "chaos+IG=Traitor guard" makes the Chaos Gods cry.
- Tau and Necrons Allies of Convenience??
- Chaos and Necrons Allies of Convenience??

By the way, I don´t like armies being BB with themselves. To all effects that´s another change to the FOC. I like the FOC. I don´t like how they are making it easier to spam the broken units. I mean, if you really want 4 options of something, just play 2000+ points. Do you really need four times the same unit while playing 1500 pts? And two forces from the same armies will still be AoC: two Adeptus Astartes Chapters, two Eldar Craftworlds, two Ork Clans, two IG Regiments still distrust each other. The only exception should be Tyranids: first for balance, second because of the background.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Prefer it greatly to the last one, because at least the BB's make sense now.

I do wish Orks were DA with Imperium though. Would help making up for a lack of BB and only one AOC

Literally only Tyranids have it worse than us. And at least Tyranids can kick some ass

Who knows, maybe the new Ork Book will make Taudar, Daemons, Crons, and AM look tame in it's cheese factor.

 jifel wrote:

 ace101 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

Clearly you missed the buff that is Tyranids can actually ally with some!!!

It just so happens to be more 'Nids. Take that as you will, but we can now say that Tyranids aren't totally screwed (3 Flyrants without Double FoC anyone?).

Yeah, I think Tyranids have improved markedly with the new Alliance chart...
1. We now get free slots. Seriously, who wasn't already take 3 troops with Tyranids?
2. Most of the Battle brother combos have been reduced. 2 out of the big 3 (Taudar and TauMarines, not D/Eldar) have been nerfed.
3. Imperial Armies BB will increase, but usually there is less cheese. Also, it will all be to include Psychic Buffs, which Nids can deny with (hopefully, FAQ pending) greater ease than others. No more Buffmanders!

Where the rumors are at the moment I really do hope SITW gets a errata to be more than a LD modifier. I mean, we warp the warp!

Edit; I would agree with most BB and AoC ratings. Most OP issues with the matrix can be fixed with just the removal of the BB's level.

Imagine you are a general or something and one of your subordinate commanders come in and inform you that he won a battle, but he allied with X. There are four options about why:
1) Why not? They are our trusted fiends. It is natural for us to help them. They are our brothers.
2) I know they are jerks, I know we cannot trust them, but it was convenient. Perhaps we could have won without them, but it was easier this way.
3) The situation was dire. We desperately need to win the battle. I had no other option. I know I am tainted, and I will submit myself to punishment for this unacceptable cursed alliance.
4) You did what?? Heresy: BLAM!

This literally had me laughing to tears. That last line was priceless. But i agree.

All I'm wanting to know about allies is can you take Battle-Forged primary with unbound allies

 Xiorell wrote:
All I'm wanting to know about allies is can you take Battle-Forged primary with unbound allies

...... yeah i guess that would be kind of important wouldnt it. I can think of some cases where that would make for some serious

 Guilldog wrote:

 Xiorell wrote:
All I'm wanting to know about allies is can you take Battle-Forged primary with unbound allies

...... yeah i guess that would be kind of important wouldnt it. I can think of some cases where that would make for some serious

It's just gonna shape the order in which I purchase models for my next army is all. I'm more interested in the traditional FoC type armies but if my allies "can" be unbound I'll just buy the models I like best and worry about making it battle-forged legal later

 da001 wrote:
4) You did what?? Heresy: BLAM!

IG really should have been allies with chaos and tau. A supplement could be made to represent renegade guard or gue'vesa, but until then it would be perfectly serviceable to let them ally properly and is largely unneeded. The IG would retain their formations as usual in any of those situations and there's ample support for renegade guard and gue'vesa.

*grumbles*

 Xiorell wrote:
All I'm wanting to know about allies is can you take Battle-Forged primary with unbound allies

I would guess not, as you'd be taking an unbound army that way.

Bound follows all FoC restriction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We could houserule/FLGS-rule that CSM can be BB with IG, and that Tau can be BB with IG.

I wouldn't mind CSM being desperate allies with all but daemons and IG, tbh. That's all we need.

Other than some drop pods.
And a better codex...
Less rage about heldrakes...
Better looking heldrakes...

*sulks in a corner*

 Selym wrote:

 Xiorell wrote:
All I'm wanting to know about allies is can you take Battle-Forged primary with unbound allies

I would guess not, as you'd be taking an unbound army that way.

Bound follows all FoC restriction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We could houserule/FLGS-rule that CSM can be BB with IG, and that Tau can be BB with IG.

I wouldn't mind CSM being desperate allies with all but daemons and IG, tbh. That's all we need.

Other than some drop pods.
And a better codex...
Less rage about heldrakes...
Better looking heldrakes...

*sulks in a corner*

I remember when heldrakes came out, i had a csm army at the time i ran out and grabbed three of them. I would run two of them two forgefiends and a defiler with my troop tax a termi lord with the mark of tzeentch and other crap that made him a lvl 2 psyker with a 2+/3++ and a warpsmith that baby sat my defiler, between the drakes and the smith and the defilers "it will not die" i had no friends within a week. But chaos was also the first to get a new dex and so more broken thing *cough* riptides* cough* weren't out yet.

I like it for pure simplification purposes.

Imperium Imperium
Chaos Chaos
Elves Elves

All the Xenos have a couple AoCs, or enough DAs to make up for it (Orks). Tau and Eldar players should be happy. I think Necrons got nerfed the worst, but I'm a Necron player and still happy with it. And they kept Tyranids as feeders.

Everyone getting to Ally with themselves is the removal of a dumb restriction in 6th.

For people like me who don't really care who the Space Wolves are mad at, or who the Blood Angels got screwed over by in the last installment of the Imperial Soap Opera, its a welcome simplification...Imperium.

 jasper76 wrote:
Imperial Soap Opera, .

this needs to be a thing.

 Guilldog wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Imperial Soap Opera, .

this needs to be a thing.

Brother-Captain Jacobus would be better off if only he admitted his feelings to sister Saint Agatha. But little does he know that she's carrying the child of Inquisitor Murdoch.

 Kain wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Imperial Soap Opera, .

this needs to be a thing.

Brother-Captain Jacobus would be better off if only he admitted his feelings to sister Saint Agatha. But little does he know that she's carrying the child of Inquisitor Murdoch.

But Inq Murdoch suffered a psychic scouring of his memory after having done battle with a deamon and now he has .... BUM BUM BUM amnesia!

yay chaos get battle brothers and sm don't. We get ONE TINY ADVANTAGE!!!!!

 rayphoton wrote:
yay chaos get battle brothers and sm don't. We get ONE TINY ADVANTAGE!!!!!

Well now all space marines ally with all other space marines and IG and INQ and GKs so i mean im sure someone can find a way to cheese it up out of control.

 rayphoton wrote:
yay chaos get battle brothers and sm don't. We get ONE TINY ADVANTAGE!!!!!

Huh? Space Marines (and all Imperium armies) made out the best. You've got 9 Battle Brothers, and one of the strongest armies in Eldar as an Ally of Convenience.

Virtus wrote:
I really hope they haven't excluded MT Scions from the Armies of the Imperium. I see AM, but the Scions have their own codex..

Wouldn't it fall under the supplement clause in the last paragraph on that page?

Well, good hint I play tyranids, space marines and chaos. Or rather, good thing my competitive army is my marines.

The only reason Chaos doesn't get Friends with Benefits with AM anymore is because there are no Traitor Guard MODELS. After all, that seems to be the trend for axing certain units lately... Blame the Cadians.

Well this sucks...

So all the imperal armies get to ally, and the rest are stuck with barley anything.

Well, shucks, now I can't do crazy gak with my Taudar anymore.

I really like the new Matrix, personally. It looks to be a hell of a lot more limited than the previous one, which should hopefully cut down on the amount of cheese going around, although I imagine Marines are going to have some interesting combos.

Now I'm just curious to know how the psychic phase stuff is going to change things. If Dark Eldar and Eldar are still Battle Brothers, this doesn't at all stop them from using the Baron in a Jetseer Council list.

Kronk is happy with this Allies Matrix.

Overall it seems that people prefer this new Matrix. It's imperfect yes, but will cut down on the cheesy interracial xenos builds. At least imperial battle brothers makes some sense!

But it ignored some changes that should have happened, it even made the relationship between IG and tau worse now.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
But it ignored some changes that should have happened, it even made the relationship between IG and tau worse now.

I agree, it could be better, but it is an improvement on the last one. Personally, I would have liked to see IG be Allies of convenience with a lot more people, and TauCrons as desperate, but that's really it.

I for one am very happy that the centurionstar will no longer have a buffmander inside.

Phil Kelly seems to like eldar very much. Bit of a bad move on people to nerf , the army everyone bought models for to ally them in and not change the most OP combination in the game.


I wonder if the 7th rulebook will allow people to self ally , unbound armies in to warforged ones.

 jifel wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
But it ignored some changes that should have happened, it even made the relationship between IG and tau worse now.

I agree, it could be better, but it is an improvement on the last one. Personally, I would have liked to see IG be Allies of convenience with a lot more people, and TauCrons as desperate, but that's really it.

I really wanted to see tau no longer BB with eldar or SM but with IG, so I got about half of what I wanted.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 jifel wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
But it ignored some changes that should have happened, it even made the relationship between IG and tau worse now.

I agree, it could be better, but it is an improvement on the last one. Personally, I would have liked to see IG be Allies of convenience with a lot more people, and TauCrons as desperate, but that's really it.

I really wanted to see tau no longer BB with eldar or SM but with IG, so I got about half of what I wanted.

Expect an overpriced codex Gue'Ves'A to come out soon.

SoB and GK battle brothers. Hm.

 Sigvatr wrote:
SoB and GK battle brothers. Hm.

This makes sense because they both work for his majesties inquisition even though one killed up a bunch of the other at the end of the day that would be like if 1st company got into it with 5th company of the ultramarines. they are still battle buddies just different sections had a.....disagreement..

 ace101 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
While I personally despise the army and laugh whenever something bad befalls it, from an objective standpoint, the new allies matrix appears to once again give the middle finger to Tyranids players.

Clearly you missed the buff that is Tyranids can actually ally with some!!!

It just so happens to be more 'Nids. Take that as you will, but we can now say that Tyranids aren't totally screwed (3 Flyrants without Double FoC anyone?).

Yeah, and it means I can buy painted figs on E bay, and not have to repaint them to use them.

I put up the psyker powers and the refernce chart http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/596034.page#6850159 here

I can't tell, but are SM and Orks Allies of Convenience, or does that say Come the Apoc?

 Ond Angel wrote:
I can't tell, but are SM and Orks Allies of Convenience, or does that say Come the Apoc?

Come the Apocalypse

Regarding the loss of IG being able to ally with Chaos, personally I think it makes sense from a fluff perspective. Traitor IG aren't the same faction as loyalist IG (which the allies matrix represents), so having loyalists be more tolerant of Chaos never made much sense fluff-wise.

Though I do sympathise with those who had an army of traitor IG built up, and who now have to work around the new allies matrix somehow.

 Sigvatr wrote:
SoB and GK battle brothers. Hm.

I know exactly what you're getting at.

Their aesthetics blend very nicely. They're going to look just fabulous together.

 Guilldog wrote:
they both work for his majesties inquisition

The Sisters don't anymore. They can of course still work alongside the Inquisition, they're just not Chamber Militant to the Ordo Hereticus anymore.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The only reason Chaos doesn't get Friends with Benefits with AM anymore is because there are no Traitor Guard MODELS. After all, that seems to be the trend for axing certain units lately... Blame the Cadians.

Tell that to my Dozerblades.

They read: "FOR BE'LAKOR".

All of them.

Every tank has iconography.

Every man (when I finally get around to painting them) will have letters on their shoulder pads that spell the names of daemons.

Half my IG models atm are DV cultist gunmen.

My psykers are the melee cultists.

The Sisters don't anymore. They can of course still work alongside the Inquisition, they're just not Chamber Militant to the Ordo Hereticus anymore.

When did this happen (guess im not up to date on my sisters fluff)

 Guilldog wrote:
When did this happen (guess im not up to date on my sisters fluff)

Basically, the Inquisition codex only lists the Hereticus as "watching" the Sisters (among other organisations). No special relationship between the two is mentioned.

The whole Sisters as Chamber Militant to the Hereticus thing only came about to explain the two sharing a codex back in 3E anyway. Now that the Sisters are back to their own codex, I suppose that GW decided to revert that change away.

 Troike wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:
When did this happen (guess im not up to date on my sisters fluff)

Basically, the Inquisition codex only lists the Hereticus as "watching" the Sisters (among other organisations). No special relationship between the two is mentioned.

The whole Sisters as Chamber Militant to the Hereticus thing only came about to explain the two sharing a codex back in 3E anyway. Now that the Sisters are back to their own codex, I suppose that GW decided to revert that change away.

So who is serving as Chamber militant now?

 Selym wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The only reason Chaos doesn't get Friends with Benefits with AM anymore is because there are no Traitor Guard MODELS. After all, that seems to be the trend for axing certain units lately... Blame the Cadians.

Tell that to my Dozerblades.

They read: "FOR BE'LAKOR".

All of them.

Every tank has iconography.

Every man (when I finally get around to painting them) will have letters on their shoulder pads that spell the names of daemons.

Half my IG models atm are DV cultist gunmen.

My psykers are the melee cultists.

You could run your traitor guard as Vrak's renegade militia list.

Which is admittedly far worse (we're talking bottom tier book here) than the AM in virtually every way there is to be worse.

What about Space wolves and Dark Angels now are BB? lol

 Tenzilla wrote:
What about Space wolves and Dark Angels now are BB? lol

They have an old rivalry, yes. But they haven't actually attacked each other.

Grey Knights and Space Wolves, however....

 Guilldog wrote:
So who is serving as Chamber militant now?

Nobody, as far as I know. In fact, I think I recall hearing that the term "chamber militant" has since fallen out of use.

 kronk wrote:

 Tenzilla wrote:
What about Space wolves and Dark Angels now are BB? lol

They have an old rivalry, yes. But they haven't actually attacked each other.

Grey Knights and Space Wolves, however....

Although the issues between the GK and SW are very recent in the 40k history.

YES! We can finally embark on allied transports. Fina-freaking-ly. Hopefully this will make transport vehicles more useful again.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:
I like how they rolled up Grey Knights, SM's and SOB all together in one block.

They rolled all the Imperial armies into one. So now Sisters are somehow BB with Space Wolves, and Space Wolves BB with the Inquisition and GK.

That makes no kind of sense.

Hey, what about the bigger heresy of allying SW with Dark Angels? Not that anyone actually would anyway, but y'know...

Also, I hope the red and orange are better differentiated in person, from this picture they appear to bleed together.

This is just all too damn awesome for words. So happy.

Waaaghpower wrote:
YES! We can finally embark on allied transports. Fina-freaking-ly. Hopefully this will make transport vehicles more useful again.

Not sure if sarcasm...

 TheKbob wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
YES! We can finally embark on allied transports. Fina-freaking-ly. Hopefully this will make transport vehicles more useful again.

Not sure if sarcasm...

Termies in Chimeras.

 Kain wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
YES! We can finally embark on allied transports. Fina-freaking-ly. Hopefully this will make transport vehicles more useful again.

Not sure if sarcasm...

Termies in Chimeras.

Lots of things in Storm Ravens, Wave Serpents, Raiders, Venoms, Land Raider (particularly Blood Angels variants), etc.

What can we squeeze into a Vendetta these days?

 TheKbob wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
YES! We can finally embark on allied transports. Fina-freaking-ly. Hopefully this will make transport vehicles more useful again.

Not sure if sarcasm...

Termies in Chimeras.

Lots of things in Storm Ravens, Wave Serpents, Raiders, Venoms, Land Raider (particularly Blood Angels variants), etc.

What can we squeeze into a Vendetta these days?

Well you can't fit enough marines with special weapons....

Oooh I know!

Special weapon squad 30k marines!

Or SoB Celestians.

 Kain wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
YES! We can finally embark on allied transports. Fina-freaking-ly. Hopefully this will make transport vehicles more useful again.

Not sure if sarcasm...

Termies in Chimeras.

Lots of things in Storm Ravens, Wave Serpents, Raiders, Venoms, Land Raider (particularly Blood Angels variants), etc.

What can we squeeze into a Vendetta these days?

Well you can't fit enough marines with special weapons....

Oooh I know!

Special weapon squad 30k marines!

Or SoB Celestians.

Nah, Sternguard.

Or Lone Wolves. Because that'd be hilarious.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
YES! We can finally embark on allied transports. Fina-freaking-ly. Hopefully this will make transport vehicles more useful again.

Not sure if sarcasm...

Termies in Chimeras.

Lots of things in Storm Ravens, Wave Serpents, Raiders, Venoms, Land Raider (particularly Blood Angels variants), etc.

What can we squeeze into a Vendetta these days?

Well you can't fit enough marines with special weapons....

Oooh I know!

Special weapon squad 30k marines!

Or SoB Celestians.

Nah, Sternguard.

Or Lone Wolves. Because that'd be hilarious.

Movie marines!

Really liking those new battle brothers rules. Am even more encouraged to pick up Inquisition allies for my Sisters now.

 Kain wrote:
Well you can't fit enough marines with special weapons....

Oooh I know!

Special weapon squad 30k marines!

Or SoB Celestians.

Did you mean Dominions? They're the best unit for transport-embarked special weapons in the SoB.

 Troike wrote:
Really liking those new battle brothers rules. Am even more encouraged to pick up Inquisition allies for my Sisters now.

 Kain wrote:
Well you can't fit enough marines with special weapons....

Oooh I know!

Special weapon squad 30k marines!

Or SoB Celestians.

Did you mean Dominions? They're the best unit for transport-embarked special weapons in the SoB.

Those are the ones that can get a large number of meltas and function as pseudo-fire dragons up until you get past five (wo)man unit size right?

Then those.

 Kain wrote:
Those are the ones that can get a large number of meltas and function as pseudo-fire dragons up until you get past five (wo)man unit size right?

Yep. That's them.

 Troike wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Those are the ones that can get a large number of meltas and function as pseudo-fire dragons up until you get past five (wo)man unit size right?

Yep. That's them.

Ah I first thought of Dominions but then hesitated and went with Celestians instead, I'm silly.

Seems like a good monstrous creature or vehicle hunter squad.

Between the vendetta's lascannons and the Dominions' meltaguns, pretty much any vehicle or monstrous creature is going to be dead.

Especially since Dominions have both Scout and a one Shot Ignore Cover for all their guns for a turn

Glad I haven't started that Traitor Guard detachment I used to think about some time ago. DE are and will be Desperate Allies with CSM still, so no change here.

The new Battle Brothers rules and Malefic powers prompt me to consider a small Slaaneshi Daemons detachment again...

Guess even traitor guard distrust demons and chaos marines.

 Mythra wrote:
Guess even traitor guard distrust demons and chaos marines.

Yet we see Tau with Necrons, Chaos with Necrons, and Eldar and Space Marines summoning Daemons....


Given that we got a full entry for the Lost and the Damned in the 6th ed Rulebook, perhaps we are getting a supplement or something. I wonder if they get a section in the new Rulebook too.

 da001 wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
Guess even traitor guard distrust demons and chaos marines.

Yet we see Tau with Necrons, Chaos with Necrons, and Eldar and Space Marines summoning Daemons....


Given that we got a full entry for the Lost and the Damned in the 6th ed Rulebook, perhaps we are getting a supplement or something. I wonder if they get a section in the new Rulebook too.

I wouldn't be able to resist such a Supplement. You hear that GW? My money is waiting.

 Mythra wrote:
Guess even traitor guard distrust demons and chaos marines.

Well, to be fair, the allies matrix isn't representing traitor guard here, it's representing loyalist IG. Traitor guard aren't represented on it.

 Troike wrote:
Regarding the loss of IG being able to ally with Chaos, personally I think it makes sense from a fluff perspective. Traitor IG aren't the same faction as loyalist IG (which the allies matrix represents), so having loyalists be more tolerant of Chaos never made much sense fluff-wise.

Though I do sympathise with those who had an army of traitor IG built up, and who now have to work around the new allies matrix somehow.

 Sigvatr wrote:
SoB and GK battle brothers. Hm.

I know exactly what you're getting at.

Their aesthetics blend very nicely. They're going to look just fabulous together.

 Guilldog wrote:
they both work for his majesties inquisition

The Sisters don't anymore. They can of course still work alongside the Inquisition, they're just not Chamber Militant to the Ordo Hereticus anymore.

Oh it's very easy! We just use the Space Marine codex! Besides, the only drawback is we lose Daemons. I'll miss it solely because I have a traitor guard force. This is the second time GW has removed my ability to play them It was one of the few things I liked about that mess of an allies chart...

Besides that, I largely like it more. Still wish IG would have been split out along with SW. IG more friendly with Tau and CSM and SW convenience with GK, SoB, and maybe Inquisition. Well here is to waiting for a supplement to make my army work again and won't get updated and eventually dropped (and probably have big drawbacks)

On a side note, I never quite got the too much like guard claim. This is the Lost and the Damned! Aim high! Mutants, poor citizens, daemon spawn, zombies, elite military forces, traitors, mercenaries, xenos, and outlandish vehicles. I used the mauler fiends tentacles on a leman Russ and planning on grabbing some fantasy vehicles to kit up some outlandish vehicles


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The only reason Chaos doesn't get Friends with Benefits with AM anymore is because there are no Traitor Guard MODELS. After all, that seems to be the trend for axing certain units lately... Blame the Cadians.

Tell that to my Dozerblades.

They read: "FOR BE'LAKOR".

All of them.

Every tank has iconography.

Every man (when I finally get around to painting them) will have letters on their shoulder pads that spell the names of daemons.

Half my IG models atm are DV cultist gunmen.

My psykers are the melee cultists.

You could run your traitor guard as Vrak's renegade militia list.

Which is admittedly far worse (we're talking bottom tier book here) than the AM in virtually every way there is to be worse.

That and you are boned if you want Tzeentch, Slaanesh, or an elite force (I don't care for elite but some will)