So, wih the advent of new 7ed, and Explodes result pushed to 7+ result on damage table, how the heck wi kill those land raiders?
Melta drop was a risky tactic in the past, bu now it is even less so (each melta pen explodes only on 5+=33%)
Lass cannons and lances pens only explode on 6+.
MC only get 1 Smash attack, and it's AP2 pen also only explodes on 6+ only.
What are we to do?
To be honest, I dont know how to kill vehicles now. In 6th and 5th I was counting on LC fire, because after pen there was always 33% chance to kill vehicle...now I only have 16.6%...well, gak...
It wasnt easy before (wave serpents and Landraiders are around me...) now it will be...how to describe it...blechrhhcthulhuhhtpfujpfujftagn!...in other words, quite difficult
Gauss... I think we use gauss. And monoliths.... many many monoliths
We will find a way. It will be cheezy to play those av 14 boxes for sure, but i think good old melta will do, lance weapons, lascannons, demolisher cannons... list is endless. I think it will be anyhow glances that will put those to scrap. Not not mention D weapons that will come available.
For the Wave Serpent mention, they have been hugely nerfed as they will only have their jinx if they forget their killing power, so now a choice is necessary, it is a huge (needed) nerf that makes it normal i think.
For the LR, yes it will be very hard to kill, but that is the point of a LR, it is crappy in terms of damage output for its point so it sounds normal that it should be hard to kill.
I would say to use the following :
- Tyranids : Carnifex or flyers or ignore it ^^
- Deamons : some MC can still kill it (sure not in just one turn as before but that sounds normal to me)
- SMC : oblits or some DP with the right stuff (iron arm and warp speed for instance for lots of S9 attacks)
- SM : grav will work, or droppod melta
- IG : lots and lots of LC - orks : bikerboss or bikernobz or SAG (or wait for new codex)
- eldar and DE : lance weapons
- GK : DK - necrons : gauss
- sororitas : lots of melta (they have lots anyway)
- tau : crisis with melta
see everyone has something, maybe they were not taken in lists, but that just mean that, what a surprise, the meta will chance a bit with a new edition.
I think it is normal (and i dont play LR myself) and quite good that a 250pts heavy box is not killed in a single round by any MC and much harder for anyone else to kill
Eihnlazer wrote: single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.
Exactly. That was my intended reponse. My landraiders and dreadnought were basically shelved. They are now comming back since I know I will at least be able to do something with them on turn and possibly two as well.
Instant kiling a 40pts rhino, I have no problem with that. Its expected and their role is to live one round and then serve as cover. But a LR should be there for a majority of the battle unless your opponent goes out of his way to remove it with concentrated firepower.
Landraider Achillies look even more fun now, with their inherent -1 damage table ability you will need an AP1 weapon and a roll of a 6 to destroy it in 1 shot.
Landraider Achillies aside this change is a welcome one though. Landraiders were too weak as they were. Compare a Landraider to a Wraithknight and you can see the problem.
Still, the ways to destroy them remain the same. You will just have to do more work to get your prize however.
Man just think about how rage inducing Land Raider Achilles tanks will be. Or worse yet; an Iron hands Achilles tank, with the Clan Raukaan 4+ IWND reiic from a Master of the Forge. Invulnerable save from Dark Angel allies is optional. Very expensive, but it's not going down to anything short of a D-weapon. You can have more than one Achilles anyway. Three of them may just prove to be functionally impossible to get rid of for most lists.
In any case, it seems that hull point stripping or D strength weapons is your only real recourse to deal with Land Raiders, Superheavy vehicles, and Monoliths.
So far, 7e seems to only bring good things to the Necrons.
minigun762 wrote: On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!
Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.
Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.
I packed 20 Brightlances and a Firestorm Redoubt in my last 1500 point game. With how Night Fight may have changed (from what I've read), things like Land Raiders seem MORE vulnerable. It's nice to blow up a tank, but I don't think it's overly necessary when you can glance it to death. Wrecks are left in play, provide a 5+ cover save and there is no more mention of placing a crater after a vehicle explodes. Assaulting a vehicle also appears unchanged.
I'll get some games in this weekend, but I don't see things like Land Raiders being any more survivable than before.
I would say the same as they always have. Just use melta gun. Oh noes! Our meltas now explode on the same roll as they did in 5th what will we do! Sorry for sounding a bit like an a** there. The vehicle damage chart really needed the buff since HPing tanks to death was already an easy way to kill it let alone the severely weakened damage chart allowing a melta to slag a tank on a 4+.
Also, for those who think that Land Raiders are now safe from Monstrous creatures; A Wraith knight still kills it just as dead as before.
First come the shots from the Wraithcannons, then comes the Wraithknight itself, who will be turning the land raider inside out in one go.
The Dreadknight doesn't really fare that much worse either, with doomfists it had no need to smash anyway.
Crushing claw carnifexes also open them like tin boxes.
Units that rely on glances kill it as well as they killed it before.
Ultimately, shooting still works pretty well to kill high armor vehicles.
All this really means is that assault has taken yet another nerf as the phase grows less and less relevant with every new edition.
Because assault needed to be weaker after 6e.
Clearly.
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A GumyBear wrote: I would say the same as they always have. Just use melta gun. Oh noes! Our meltas now explode on the same roll as they did in 5th what will we do! Sorry for sounding a bit like an a** there. The vehicle damage chart really needed the buff since HPing tanks to death was already an easy way to kill it let alone the severely weakened damage chart allowing a melta to slag a tank on a 4+.
Meltas got wrecks on 4s in 5e.
A meltagun got a oneshot kill on a tank just as often in 5e as they did in 6e.
minigun762 wrote: On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!
Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.
Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.
I believe we are agreeing if I understand your point to be that anti tank weapons should be used on tanks and anti infantry weapons on infantry.
minigun762 wrote: On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!
Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.
Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.
I believe we are agreeing if I understand your point to be that anti tank weapons should be used on tanks and anti infantry weapons on infantry.
Except the last one isn't particularly good at killing vehicles or massed infantry now. And the changes make Tyranid rupture cannons, Heavy Venom Cannons, Krak Missiles, and Battle cannons (even more) laughably inept at anti-tank. Essentially, this only encourages hull point stripping.
You know, the thing people complained about?
Because while a battlecannon can now never take out even an Ork trukk in one hit (as if Ordinance Russes needed to get any worse) this does...absolutely nothing to lessen the ability of grav centurions to reduce tanks to dust.
minigun762 wrote: On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!
Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.
Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.
I believe we are agreeing if I understand your point to be that anti tank weapons should be used on tanks and anti infantry weapons on infantry.
Except the last one isn't particularly good at killing vehicles or massed infantry now. And the changes make Tyranid rupture cannons, Heavy Venom Cannons, Krak Missiles, and Battle cannons (even more) laughably inept at anti-tank. Essentially, this only encourages hull point stripping.
You know, the thing people complained about?
Because while a battlecannon can now never take out even an Ork trukk in one hit (as if Ordinance Russes needed to get any worse) this does...absolutely nothing to lessen the ability of grav centurions to reduce tanks to dust.
At least pick a target where you are right. A battle cannon can get an ork trukk because they are open topped. Now a rhino it can not.
However that just means that it is a bad use of your resources to target a rhino/trukk with a battle cannon.
Eihnlazer wrote: single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.
Exactly. That was my intended reponse. My landraiders and dreadnought were basically shelved. They are now comming back since I know I will at least be able to do something with them on turn and possibly two as well.
Instant kiling a 40pts rhino, I have no problem with that. Its expected and their role is to live one round and then serve as cover. But a LR should be there for a majority of the battle unless your opponent goes out of his way to remove it with concentrated firepower.
Frankly, I just ignore land raiders most of the time. Just like I ignore most flyers. They're hard to kill units, but their fire power usually isn't enough to make them worth killing. It'd have to kill four guard squads in a game, or a Russ and a chimera, to earn back it's points. And most people will have terminators inside the land raider which makes no sense to me (just like marines inside marines for centurions). You concentrate your points to the point of absurdity, putting 2+ save guys inside a 14/14/14 vehicle is crazy.
Eihnlazer wrote: single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.
Exactly. That was my intended reponse. My landraiders and dreadnought were basically shelved. They are now comming back since I know I will at least be able to do something with them on turn and possibly two as well.
Instant kiling a 40pts rhino, I have no problem with that. Its expected and their role is to live one round and then serve as cover. But a LR should be there for a majority of the battle unless your opponent goes out of his way to remove it with concentrated firepower.
Frankly, I just ignore land raiders most of the time. Just like I ignore most flyers. They're hard to kill units, but their fire power usually isn't enough to make them worth killing. It'd have to kill four guard squads in a game, or a Russ and a chimera, to earn back it's points. And most people will have terminators inside the land raider which makes no sense to me (just like marines inside marines for centurions). You concentrate your points to the point of absurdity, putting 2+ save guys inside a 14/14/14 vehicle is crazy.
Whilst true, it is the only way to make terminators remotely useful. When playing DW, I use landraiders work as a moving wall, attempting to shield the terminators from anti infantry fire.
I'm quite looking forward to the changes in this regard, as it means my DW army just got that slight bit better.
After the nerf to Braodside HRR, Crisis became the to-go AT for Tau.
Longstrike in a Railhead is still an option, but still 5+ to penetrate a LR, now requiring a 5+ to outright explode it... better use the Firebase Formation with Rippy Ionzippy and his 6 Broadside HRRs groupies to glance it with Tank Hunters.
Kyutaru wrote:Maybe GW just got tired of making their models out of explodium. We actually have to battle tanks now.
Vector Strike wrote: After the nerf to Braodside HRR, Crisis became the to-go AT for Tau. Longstrike in a Railhead is still an option, but still 5+ to penetrate a LR, now requiring a 5+ to outright explode it... better use the Firebase Formation with Rippy Ionzippy and his 6 Broadside HRRs groupies to glance it with Tank Hunters.
Kyutaru wrote:Maybe GW just got tired of making their models out of explodium. We actually have to battle tanks now.
have an exalt, good sir!
You shouldn't be shooting LRs with hammerheads in any case. Aim for weak stuff like rinos and vindactors (that's the SM battle tank right?) to distract your opponent and get the most out of the tank.
Mavnas wrote: Pask in a punisher with LC and melta sponsons.
sure 2/3s of 20 shots hit 1/6 of those rend, 1/3 of those glance; so most basic math-hammer: .740740 glances, then .22222 glances from the meltas over 12" of range, .1111 glances from MM within 12" or .407407 explodes from the MM within 12". Then you have a grand total of .1111 glances with the lascannon, or .037037 explodes
honestly melta vets jumping out of a chimera do a better job cheaper with .166666 glances within 6" or .61111 explodes(you would not disembark therm outside of 6")
Mavnas wrote: Pask in a punisher with LC and melta sponsons.
sure 2/3s of 20 shots hit 1/6 of those rend, 1/3 of those glance; so most basic math-hammer: .740740 glances, then .22222 glances from the meltas over 12" of range, .1111 glances from MM within 12" or .407407 explodes from the MM within 12". Then you have a grand total of .1111 glances with the lascannon, or .037037 explodes
honestly melta vets jumping out of a chimera do a better job cheaper with .166666 glances within 6" or .61111 explodes(you would not disembark therm outside of 6")
Lothar wrote: LCs will have bigger problems to kill a vehicle. It will not be impossible, I am not saying that, but it is sure it will be a lot harder than now.
Glancing vehicles with LCs is not efficient way to kill them, because LCs are not exactly cheap.
It's really a null issue.
In 6th edition you needed 27 LC shots to get an average of one destroyed result.
You only needed 18 shots to strip four hull points.
Lothar wrote: LCs will have bigger problems to kill a vehicle. It will not be impossible, I am not saying that, but it is sure it will be a lot harder than now.
Glancing vehicles with LCs is not efficient way to kill them, because LCs are not exactly cheap.
It's really a null issue.
In 6th edition you needed 27 LC shots to get an average of one destroyed result.
You only needed 18 shots to strip four hull points.
Vector Strike wrote: After the nerf to Braodside HRR, Crisis became the to-go AT for Tau.
Longstrike in a Railhead is still an option, but still 5+ to penetrate a LR, now requiring a 5+ to outright explode it... better use the Firebase Formation with Rippy Ionzippy and his 6 Broadside HRRs groupies to glance it with Tank Hunters.
Kyutaru wrote:Maybe GW just got tired of making their models out of explodium. We actually have to battle tanks now.
have an exalt, good sir!
You shouldn't be shooting LRs with hammerheads in any case. Aim for weak stuff like rinos and vindactors (that's the SM battle tank right?) to distract your opponent and get the most out of the tank.
Thanks for the insight - Yeah, it's a wiser use for it.
Vindicator is the one with 24" S10 AP2 plate; Predator is the SM battle tank. Both have 13/11/10, though.
Also for expensive things like a land raider you dont need to kill it. You either just need to slow it down or put it in a position where he cant use it effectively.
Or hell just ignore it. It doesnt really do that much damage anyway.
Leth wrote: Also for expensive things like a land raider you dont need to kill it. You either just need to slow it down or put it in a position where he cant use it effectively.
Or hell just ignore it. It doesnt really do that much damage anyway.
Depends on what kind of Land raider is used.
A spartan assault tank most certainly can cause an enemy grief even before it vomits out a full squad of terminators in someone's face. And Ceramite shielding can quickly negate the issue of Meltas.
Monoliths can also be used for some exceedingly nasty tricks and generally speaking, a trio of them dropping down via Zandrekh along with a full half of a necron army is very much a big problem.
The new rules make them even harder to get rid off without HP stripping.
Mavnas wrote: Pask in a punisher with LC and melta sponsons.
sure 2/3s of 20 shots hit 1/6 of those rend, 1/3 of those glance; so most basic math-hammer: .740740 glances, then .22222 glances from the meltas over 12" of range, .1111 glances from MM within 12" or .407407 explodes from the MM within 12". Then you have a grand total of .1111 glances with the lascannon, or .037037 explodes
honestly melta vets jumping out of a chimera do a better job cheaper with .166666 glances within 6" or .61111 explodes(you would not disembark therm outside of 6")
He rerolls armor pen... And rolls of 1 to hit.
ok, 1.433471 glances from the gatling cannon, .248457 glances from the MM at under 12", or .462892 explodes. and the lascannon gets .147634 glances and .052812 explodes
Space marine grav weapons should make short work of it. Immobilized is good enough for government work, and a 2nd result will strip 2hp.
SM/IG can make real quick work of one. Split off and priest to join the bikes and use orders to give the priest tank hunters, which as a usr transfers to the rest of the squad. Now the bikes hit like dev cents.
Space marine grav weapons should make short work of it. Immobilized is good enough for government work, and a 2nd result will strip 2hp.
SM/IG can make real quick work of one. Split off and priest to join the bikes and use orders to give the priest tank hunters, which as a usr transfers to the rest of the squad. Now the bikes hit like dev cents.
Orders go to space army units, an IC joined to SM bikes is no longer a space army unit, he is part of a SM unit.
And yes, the blade of shadows has Armour(and flesh)bane
Space marine grav weapons should make short work of it. Immobilized is good enough for government work, and a 2nd result will strip 2hp.
SM/IG can make real quick work of one. Split off and priest to join the bikes and use orders to give the priest tank hunters, which as a usr transfers to the rest of the squad. Now the bikes hit like dev cents.
Be'Lakor's sword is Armorbane, Fleshbane, +1 strength, and master crafted.
I keep hearing melta. Um aren't there quite a few Imperial armies with access to ceramite armor? Don't regular SMs and GK get that? I never leave home without it on my Heresy vehicles, and with the new rules, it will not be an item I cut to make my points limit.
Col. Dash wrote: I keep hearing melta. Um aren't there quite a few Imperial armies with access to ceramite armor? Don't regular SMs and GK get that? I never leave home without it on my Heresy vehicles, and with the new rules, it will not be an item I cut to make my points limit.
CSMs have it on the Spartan Assault Tank. Really cuts down on being hit by anything during games, people like meltas a lot more than lascannons.
DaddyWarcrimes wrote: The only things with ceramite armor are Stormravens and Stormtalons. Oh, and a few Forgeworld Land Raider variants.
It's really only a concern If they're spamming expensive super Land Raiders.
In which case a demolisher cannon has nearly the same effect as a melta gun with 4x the effective range.
TheSilo wrote: Do we know what's replacing the natural '6' on the penetrating table? If it's something like 2 HP then these concerns might be overblown.
Mavnas wrote: Pask in a punisher with LC and melta sponsons.
sure 2/3s of 20 shots hit 1/6 of those rend, 1/3 of those glance; so most basic math-hammer: .740740 glances, then .22222 glances from the meltas over 12" of range, .1111 glances from MM within 12" or .407407 explodes from the MM within 12". Then you have a grand total of .1111 glances with the lascannon, or .037037 explodes
honestly melta vets jumping out of a chimera do a better job cheaper with .166666 glances within 6" or .61111 explodes(you would not disembark therm outside of 6")
He rerolls armor pen... And rolls of 1 to hit.
ok, 1.433471 glances from the gatling cannon, .248457 glances from the MM at under 12", or .462892 explodes. and the lascannon gets .147634 glances and .052812 explodes
3 melta vets are still better and cheaper.
So half its HP and just over half chance to explode it from an AV 14 vehicle that presents similar challenges to long range enemy fire, or a couple dudes that can be gunned down with a few heavy bolters. Sure, I can see why the former might be more expensive.
This. Even at a ~16% less chance for an explodes result, Land Raiders are transports. Their damage comes from what they're carrying. An immobilized transport is taking its cargo nowhere.
Eihnlazer wrote: single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.
It should take 2-3x as many points worth of models to kill it in one turn.
This is assuming you are advancing across the table at each other from the start of the game.
If your using units specialized at deep striking melta, they a unit worth 80-120% of its points should be able to take it out.
Exactly this. My 1850 Space Marine list runs two Land Raiders (Vanilla and Redeemer) and the last two games I played, both against a White Scars list, both Raiders were killed turn 2 by 5 man squads with 2 grav guns, melta bombs and a multi-melta. 60% of the points of the Land Raider and presents a zero chance of survival. Land Raiders were not scary in 6th, they were a massive waste of points. I only run them because the models I have are loaded up with forge world bits and cost me $120+, and it kills me to drop over $200 on models then not use them. All of these changes make me happy, because my list might actually be balanced against that damn White Scars list.
Eihnlazer wrote: single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.
It should take 2-3x as many points worth of models to kill it in one turn.
This is assuming you are advancing across the table at each other from the start of the game.
If your using units specialized at deep striking melta, they a unit worth 80-120% of its points should be able to take it out.
Exactly this. My 1850 Space Marine list runs two Land Raiders (Vanilla and Redeemer) and the last two games I played, both against a White Scars list, both Raiders were killed turn 2 by 5 man squads with 2 grav guns, melta bombs and a multi-melta. 60% of the points of the Land Raider and presents a zero chance of survival. Land Raiders were not scary in 6th, they were a massive waste of points. I only run them because the models I have are loaded up with forge world bits and cost me $120+, and it kills me to drop over $200 on models then not use them. All of these changes make me happy, because my list might actually be balanced against that damn White Scars list.
These changes aren't really going to do anything to weaken grav weaponary and haywire as vehicle killers.
Rather they're weakening more traditional anti-tank weapons and thus encouraging people to get the weapons that rely on hull point stripping even more.
Scipio Africanus wrote: Have you all forgotten that landraiders have fething hullpoints and do next to 0 damage?
chip its hull points. What's so wrong with that?
As I said, you're likely going to be more afraid of Monoliths.
Land Raiders are mostly just a concern because they can be super-scoring for some armies and thus lock down an objective.
While the new chart means that lascannons are even less viable at killing AV14 than before, nothing's stopping someone from just zapping it with haywire.
Scipio Africanus wrote: Have you all forgotten that landraiders have fething hullpoints and do next to 0 damage?
chip its hull points. What's so wrong with that?
As I said, you're likely going to be more afraid of Monoliths.
Land Raiders are mostly just a concern because they can be super-scoring for some armies and thus lock down an objective.
While the new chart means that lascannons are even less viable at killing AV14 than before, nothing's stopping someone from just zapping it with haywire.
I'm glad you said "even less viable". Lascannons were never good against AV14.
Scipio Africanus wrote: Have you all forgotten that landraiders have fething hullpoints and do next to 0 damage?
chip its hull points. What's so wrong with that?
As I said, you're likely going to be more afraid of Monoliths.
Land Raiders are mostly just a concern because they can be super-scoring for some armies and thus lock down an objective.
While the new chart means that lascannons are even less viable at killing AV14 than before, nothing's stopping someone from just zapping it with haywire.
I'm glad you said "even less viable". Lascannons were never good against AV14.
I learned how suboptimal they were the hard way after many frustrating instances of Terminus Ultras and Spartan Assault Tanks failing to impress in anti-tank ability.
Even with Tarnus Vale to give the Spartan tankhunters for it's quad TL'd lascannons killing Av14 is something that happens from weight of averages then the lascannon's inherent strength.
When I say that IF Lascannon/Missile Dev-Cents are good vehicle poppers, it's worth noting that Old broadsides aren't quite as terrifying against heavy tanks as some may remember them (it's more because they could shoot three TL'd shots per HS slot, a single railgun, as the Hammerhead can attest to, is not super-reliable anti-tank, even Longstrike with his tankhunters ability only penetrates with about half his hits). They are absolutely devastating to AV12 and under units, but mostly serve to make AV14 units cautious, not afraid.
The LC is best used like a Krak missile +1 (and the Railgun is in turn, a lascannon1), it's more of a transport popper than a heavy tank killer.
The LC is best used like a Krak missile +1 (and the Railgun is in turn, a lascannon1), it's more of a transport popper than a heavy tank killer.
That's a good assessment I think.
Lascannons are there to kill AV11-13 primarily. Hurting AV14 is a secondary function that they can perform if need be.
The LC is best used like a Krak missile +1 (and the Railgun is in turn, a lascannon1), it's more of a transport popper than a heavy tank killer.
That's a good assessment I think.
Lascannons are there to kill AV11-13 primarily. Hurting AV14 is a secondary function that they can perform if need be.
The AP2 gives the lascannon the added benefit of being a bit better for killing high priority targets but there's not too many that fit the bill that are really worth the lascannon's time unless better targets are gone.
If you do have a shot at a T4 model without EW but has a 2+ save on it or see a big scary monstrous creature or walker but don't have more purpose built weapons to kill them at the ready, then by all means take the shot.
Just don't expect a big bang for your buck.
Now tank-hunters does substantially help the Lascannon in both it's intended role and in making AV14 wary about being in your LOS. The threat of dev cents or lascannon devastators with tank hunting lascannons is often enough to make a land raider user more cautious about using his tank and will certainly pop lower armor values with impunity.
But the best long ranged tank killer (barring D-weapons) is still either a Pasquisher or a Bastion Breacher Medusa/Necron Heatcannon Sentry Pylon. Tankhunting S8 armorbane or S10 armorbane goes through most armor like butter. At somewhat shorter range, the Vindicaire remains very good at piercing through most vehicles even if he's taken a hit with the new tables.
With the hit Lascannons are taking on the damage damage, would it make more sense to run the cheaper missile launchers instead? I mean, if we're counting on melta, grav and haywire for killing AV14, is their a need for a lascannon?
HawaiiMatt wrote: With the hit Lascannons are taking on the damage damage, would it make more sense to run the cheaper missile launchers instead? I mean, if we're counting on melta, grav and haywire for killing AV14, is their a need for a lascannon?
-Matt
A lascannon still has a chance of one hit killing a vehicle. Missile launchers can only hull point strip and get the lesser results on the vehicle damage table now.
Strawmans and misrepresentation all over this thread.
people I know generally refuse to play ridiculous armies, not just strong ones. Land Raiders? Fine, that's cool. 10XRiptides with an added Revenant Titan, not so much. But no, that's obviously my fault as a casual gamer.
MUST. FORGE. HARDER.
And no one ever mentioned anti infantry weapons for dealing with Land Raiders. OP said LCs, Lances and MCs, all of which are considered strictly anti vehicle.
In response to the OP, it's either ignore it or glance it to death. Or bring D. Because that's a thing now. Lots of D. Drown it in the D.
liquidjoshi wrote: Strawmans and misrepresentation all over this thread.
people I know generally refuse to play ridiculous armies, not just strong ones. Land Raiders? Fine, that's cool. 10XRiptides with an added Revenant Titan, not so much. But no, that's obviously my fault as a casual gamer.
MUST. FORGE. HARDER.
And no one ever mentioned anti infantry weapons for dealing with Land Raiders. OP said LCs, Lances and MCs, all of which are considered strictly anti vehicle.
In response to the OP, it's either ignore it or glance it to death. Or bring D. Because that's a thing now. Lots of D. Drown it in the D.
Hoo boy.
Your enemy's tanks and MCs can just suck on your D.
I never thought I'd get to use that song in context on a forum.
Farseer Will wrote: Ap1 Weapons, Ap2 weapons, lance weapons. Strength 8 or above weapons so you can glance it to death, lascannons. I could go on if you want.
Thank you Captain obvious
And now from the practical standpoint?
Grav guns. Immobolized is good enough for government work. Afterwords focus on killing what's inside the land raider instead of trying to kill an av14 anvil unit.
For Eldar, the ability to kill a Land Raider with a unit of Fire Dragons as reduced, but only from a point of major overkill to moderate overkill. Those still work amazingly well in making Land Raiders scenery.
Lances took a hit though, due to their chart nerf. It will mean a few more needed per army, which will pull those Scatter Lasers off of a few units...this should make other players happy. One can hope that this makes the Prism Tank more specialized and useful in games.
Whats the strength on elder fire dragons melta? 8 like imperials? Just wondering if I even need to worry about them with my HH raiders and Spartans. If they aren't an 8 then they aren't even a remote priority except for easy kill points.
Col. Dash wrote: Whats the strength on elder fire dragons melta? 8 like imperials? Just wondering if I even need to worry about them with my HH raiders and Spartans. If they aren't an 8 then they aren't even a remote priority except for easy kill points.
S8 AP1 melta with assault 1 and twelve inches of range. The Fire dragon has a fusion pike which has 18 inches.
But what's really crazy is that fire dragons can have tank hunters.
So not only do they get 2d6 penetration dice, but you can reroll either or both of the dice if you didn't succeed the first time.
Nothing with an AV value survives a full fire dragon squad firing at it in melta range.
