According to the Chaos Daemons FAQ, Daemonology can be used by any psyker or brotherhood of sorcerers in addition to the disciplines on their army entry lists.
In other words, Pink Horrors can summon daemons.
Daemon Factory is officially allowed and sanctioned by Games Workshop.
Kyutaru wrote: According to the Chaos Daemons FAQ, Daemonology can be used by any psyker or brotherhood of sorcerers in addition to the disciplines on their army entry lists.
In other words, Pink Horrors can summon daemons.
Daemon Factory is officially allowed and sanctioned by Games Workshop.
what I want to know is what does this mean for the Eldar Hemlock Wraithfighter. It says that psyker pilots can generate daemonlogy powers plus any other powers they generate in their unit entry. Well the Hemlock Wraithfighter only knows Terrify, does this mean he can generate daemonology powers now? and if he doesn't generate them does he have the primaris power from telepathy?
Well I am livid. My favorite character is just about totally useless for his points. At least they could have added independent character to Mephiston's rules so he isn't just stumbling around by himself waiting to die to anti-tank fire.
Brotherjanus wrote: Well I am livid. My favorite character is just about totally useless for his points. At least they could have added independent character to Mephiston's rules so he isn't just stumbling around by himself waiting to die to anti-tank fire.
Other IC's can now join to him now though, so it's not all bad!
Brotherjanus wrote: Well I am livid. My favorite character is just about totally useless for his points. At least they could have added independent character to Mephiston's rules so he isn't just stumbling around by himself waiting to die to anti-tank fire.
Independent Characters can now join Mephiston. Plus he can roll Iron Arm which would make his attacks AP2 which I believe was a major complaint when using him.
ashikenshin wrote: what I want to know is what does this mean for the Eldar Hemlock Wraithfighter. It says that psyker pilots can generate daemonlogy powers plus any other powers they generate in their unit entry. Well the Hemlock Wraithfighter only knows Terrify, does this mean he can generate daemonology powers now? and if he doesn't generate them does he have the primaris power from telepathy?
I don't have the Eldar book but the rulebook for 7th states that if you get a SPECIFIC power, you are not considered able to generate powers from a discipline and cannot roll for Daemonology.
This also applies to Grey Knights, who have all their models able to use psyker powers. Since 90% of them get SPECIFIC powers, they can't roll for Daemonology. Only Librarians and champions can. However, Grey Knights figures get specific Sanctic powers anyway for free so they don't really need to roll.
Brotherjanus wrote: Well I am livid. My favorite character is just about totally useless for his points. At least they could have added independent character to Mephiston's rules so he isn't just stumbling around by himself waiting to die to anti-tank fire.
If your lucky and get Iron Arm, good luck killing him with his Str/Tough 9. Among other possible benefits from Biomancy.
No Malefic Daemonology on Inquisitors, but it is in the GK book, so if you were leading a force of Grey Knights you probably wouldn't summon a daemon right in front of them XD
ashikenshin wrote: what I want to know is what does this mean for the Eldar Hemlock Wraithfighter. It says that psyker pilots can generate daemonlogy powers plus any other powers they generate in their unit entry. Well the Hemlock Wraithfighter only knows Terrify, does this mean he can generate daemonology powers now? and if he doesn't generate them does he have the primaris power from telepathy?
I don't have the Eldar book but the rulebook for 7th states that if you get a SPECIFIC power, you are not considered able to generate powers from a discipline and cannot roll for Daemonology.
This also applies to Grey Knights, who have all their models able to use psyker powers. Since 90% of them get SPECIFIC powers, they can't roll for Daemonology. Only Librarians and champions can. However, Grey Knights figures get specific Sanctic powers anyway for free so they don't really need to roll.
Agreed, a Hemlock can't generate a power, they have one (Terrify) already assigned to them.
Idolator wrote: Notice that they deleted the "Primary" from the detachment description on Heralds.
Now, you definitely can take four per detachment.
And no more than four!
--but that's in a detachment. So it's still a silly army construction loophole for Unbound armies. Daemon Primary Unbound may take 0-4 Heralds (since it's a detachment, it's limited). Anything-else Primary Unbound may take infinity Heralds (since it's not a detachment, it's unlimited).
Happyjew wrote: BA no longer have their own powers. They roll on tables like everyone else. Problem "solved".
Along with SW. No more Jaws.
And Runic weapons nerfed/adjusted to +1 DTW.
Is that really a nerf though? It is now unlimited range and each dice you roll for DTW is 5+... Njal is 4+. That seems pretty decent.
Yes but it only applies if they're the target (or one of the targets) of the power.
Doesn't help if your oppoent is casting a Blessing or Conjuration etc...
Idolator wrote: Notice that they deleted the "Primary" from the detachment description on Heralds.
Now, you definitely can take four per detachment.
And no more than four!
--but that's in a detachment. So it's still a silly army construction loophole for Unbound armies. Daemon Primary Unbound may take 0-4 Heralds (since it's a detachment, it's limited). Anything-else Primary Unbound may take infinity Heralds (since it's not a detachment, it's unlimited).
But the Unbound rules say you ignore Detachment restrictions...
Idolator wrote: Notice that they deleted the "Primary" from the detachment description on Heralds.
Now, you definitely can take four per detachment.
And no more than four!
--but that's in a detachment. So it's still a silly army construction loophole for Unbound armies. Daemon Primary Unbound may take 0-4 Heralds (since it's a detachment, it's limited). Anything-else Primary Unbound may take infinity Heralds (since it's not a detachment, it's unlimited).
"If you use the Unbound method, then once you chose your Warlord, every model in your army that has the same Faction (pg 118) as your Warlord is considered to be part of the Primary Detachment for all rules purposes. Of course, in an Unbound army, these models are not bound by any Detachment restrictions and do not receive command benefits."
They are not bound by detachment restrictions at all in unbound. Infinite heralds is allowed in unbound. Geez, dude. It's right there. The limit of four per detachment is just for battle forged.
pretre wrote: Is that really a nerf though? It is now unlimited range and each dice you roll for DTW is 5+... Njal is 4+. That seems pretty decent.
Yes but it only applies if they're the target (or one of the targets) of the power.
Doesn't help if your oppoent is casting a Blessing or Conjuration etc...
Okay, have to take your word for it until I get my book. Thanks.
Happyjew wrote: BA no longer have their own powers. They roll on tables like everyone else. Problem "solved".
Along with SW. No more Jaws.
And Runic weapons nerfed/adjusted to +1 DTW.
Is that really a nerf though? It is now unlimited range and each dice you roll for DTW is 5+... Njal is 4+. That seems pretty decent.
thats why i wrote "nerfed/adjusted". Im quite happy with that change. Couldve been way worse. Im also happy with Jotww and LL gone. They were both strange in their rules (unlimited range and well ... jaws) and apart from one game where i sucked in 3 tyranid MCs with one shot i generally didnt have that good results from jotww anyway. LL on the other hand was one of my favourite spells. But since it had a ~35-40% fail rate in 6th edition i didnt use it that much outside of low point games so i welcome the whole change i think.
They are not bound by detachment restrictions at all in unbound. Infinite heralds is allowed in unbound.
"Detachment restrictions" are a very specific set of rules that are included in the FOC chart. See p120 for a definition, and p122 for an example. Things like: "Draigo makes Paladins Troops" "Only 4 Heralds" and "Honour Guard only when you have a CM" are NOT Detachment Restrictions. You're misapplying the term.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Please dont start that in this thread, you have your own thread to argue about it
No he doesn't, it was locked by the moderator. We can tell him till we're blue in the face, he will never understand that the Unbound list rules essentially use: "Use anything you want."
One could argue, RAW (and with a big dose of TFG), That since "primary" has been removed from the heralds entry and wasn't replaced with the word "Daemon" you could put heralds into any detachment. Daemon or not.
It's poppycock, but some dude might just do it! Here's how it read now.
"Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds...."
Kyutaru wrote: Unbound list rules essentially use: "Use anything you want."
This is false. Unbound armies must still abide by unit compositions and point values.
There are also some army-specific restrictions in the various codices, eg. Honour Guard, Ghost Knights, Inquisitorial Warbands, Crisis Bodyguards.
All the instances of "Farsight Army" and "Your Army" are now "Farsight Detachment". Buff Command and Shadowsun for Farsight.
The Talisman of Arthas Moloch is amazing. +4 dice for DTW and everyone get a 4+ to DTW within 12"? I was right to call Farsight the anti-psykers for Tau.
All the instances of "Farsight Army" and "Your Army" are now "Farsight Detachment". Buff Command and Shadowsun for Farsight.
Can you explain what this means? I'm not quite familiar with the mechanics of how Tau Bombs used to work, and how this changes it.
The Talisman of Arthas Moloch is amazing. +4 dice for DTW and everyone get a 4+ to DTW within 12"? I was right to call Farsight the anti-psykers for Tau.
I was sad to see the GK Reinforced Aegis get a serious nerf. Now I'm even sadder to see that someone else has what I was hoping the RA would be (and what the RA used to do).
Kyutaru wrote: Unbound list rules essentially use: "Use anything you want."
This is false. Unbound armies must still abide by unit compositions and point values.
There are also some army-specific restrictions in the various codices, eg. Honour Guard, Ghost Knights, Inquisitorial Warbands, Crisis Bodyguards.
Please do not derail the thread.
If you really need to pimp your thread, post a link to it and stop forcing it into other topics.
All the instances of "Farsight Army" and "Your Army" are now "Farsight Detachment". Buff Command and Shadowsun for Farsight.
Can you explain what this means? I'm not quite familiar with the mechanics of how Tau Bombs used to work, and how this changes it.
The Farsight Enclaves book was worded poorly before. RAW, you were not allowed to take Shadowsun or a Tau Commander with Tau Empire Special Issue Systems (Relics) even in an allied detachment because it was forbidden in your army. It's now forbidden only in a Farsight Enclaves detachment. Most people agreed that RAI would allow you and RAW has now been changed to match.
Nilok wrote: The Talisman of Arthas Moloch is amazing. +4 dice for DTW and everyone get a 4+ to DTW within 12"? I was right to call Farsight the anti-psykers for Tau.
No it doesn't. The second sentence now reads that everyone within 12" gets +2 to DtW.
Chaos Daemons got a new HQ unit - Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch. It's entry says it counts as one Herald. Does it mean I can buy Herald upgrades for it or it's just a new unit without any upgrades? This guy without Disk/Chariot is useless.
All the instances of "Farsight Army" and "Your Army" are now "Farsight Detachment". Buff Command and Shadowsun for Farsight.
Can you explain what this means? I'm not quite familiar with the mechanics of how Tau Bombs used to work, and how this changes it.
Farsight Enclaves was the first supplement to allow alliance with its mother codex (Iyanden couldn't ally with Eldar). But they put the word 'army' instead of 'detachment' (as the newer supplements used), so the alliance between these were quite fuzzy. Example: Farsight has a clause that prohibits you to use Signature Systems (Tau Relics) from Tau Codex. This is normal to the allied detachment or primary, but it had an extra restriction: your ARMY couldn't take Tau Sig Systems, not only the Farsight detachment (so, if you had Farsight as either ally or primary, the other detach with Tau couldn't take their own Sig Systems!). People used to change 'army' to 'detachment' to overcome that. This FAQ shows this decision was indeed RAI
Shadowsun and the "Buff Commander" add numerous benefits to the Farsight Bomb Deathstar, including Stealth, Shrouded, twin-linking, Stubborn, Ignores Cover and potential others such as Tank Hunters/Monster Hunters, etc.
Kriswall wrote: Shadowsun and the "Buff Commander" add numerous benefits to the Farsight Bomb Deathstar, including Stealth, Shrouded, twin-linking, Stubborn, Ignores Cover and potential others such as Tank Hunters/Monster Hunters, etc.
They are VERY desireable force multiplier units.
15 hot plasmaguns with TL and Ignores cover? Monster/Tank Hunters? Oh my!
GK Librarians, Grand Masters, Brother Captains, Coteaz, Draigo, and Psyker Henchmen can summon Demons too...
No they cant
I guess it depends on what Codex you take them from. I think it was Coteaz who is listed in multiple Codexes but has different capabilities between the two.
It should be noted that Tyranids got the screwjob once again.
I was expecting some kind of FAQ for Shadows in the Warp...none delivered. I guess the leadership penalty just hurts on those couple-three Perils of the Warp results.
jasper76 wrote: It should be noted that Tyranids got the screwjob once again.
I was expecting some kind of FAQ for Shadows in the Warp...none delivered. I guess the leadership penalty just hurts on those couple-three Perils of the Warp results.
You aren't alone. Daemons of Tzeentch still get +3 Ld when manifesting Psychic Powers; it wasn't addressed in the FAQ. I don't know if you can keep the extra Ld for Perils tests...
jasper76 wrote: It should be noted that Tyranids got the screwjob once again.
I was expecting some kind of FAQ for Shadows in the Warp...none delivered. I guess the leadership penalty just hurts on those couple-three Perils of the Warp results.
You aren't alone. Daemons of Tzeentch still get +3 Ld when manifesting Psychic Powers; it wasn't addressed in the FAQ. I don't know if you can keep the extra Ld for Perils tests...
I'd assume so, since they didn't FAQ it.
So Tzeentch daemons get +3 leadership, Shadows in the Warp gives -3 leadership...this only comes into play now if you're rolling on the Perils of the Warp table and hit one with a leadership test, or so it would seem...
Idolator wrote: Notice that they deleted the "Primary" from the detachment description on Heralds.
Now, you definitely can take four per detachment.
And no more than four!
--but that's in a detachment. So it's still a silly army construction loophole for Unbound armies. Daemon Primary Unbound may take 0-4 Heralds (since it's a detachment, it's limited). Anything-else Primary Unbound may take infinity Heralds (since it's not a detachment, it's unlimited).
so per detachment where i can take heralds + 2 troops + whatever else multiply by however many i want?
same as i can take 2 librarians per detachment mmmm hello daemon allies wait i just realised it means Detachement, so it CAN be an allied detachment, rather than just normal daemons detachments as well, so in each allies detachment i COULD take 4 heralds + a unit of pink horrors? ouuchie..
SitW doesnt need an FAQ really, the penalty for failing that leadership test is bad bad ju ju... it will help there.
and the heldrake is now a steamer again, must have sold juuust enough
aaaaaand i can turn abby into a damn spawn again.... no more beatsticking for him
EDIT: so with my above theories, if i drop drakes for a bunch of heralds all good to go?.....
Happyjew wrote: BA no longer have their own powers. They roll on tables like everyone else. Problem "solved".
Along with SW. No more Jaws.
And Runic weapons nerfed/adjusted to +1 DTW.
Is that really a nerf though? It is now unlimited range and each dice you roll for DTW is 5+... Njal is 4+. That seems pretty decent.
How is it unlimited range? The model gets +1. You only get to use the models bonus if its targeting him or the unit he is a part of, correct? Unless I read the DtW rules incorrectly. It was only a Psychic Hood that let you use a Psyker's DtW bonuses to other units within 12".
Also, technically, the 3rd sentence of the Runic Weapons entry (that the FAQ tells you to replace) says "A runic weapon is a force weapon". The 4th sentence is the one saying it nullifies powers on a 4+ etc. So..
I just noticed Blood Angels lost almost ALL of its Fast stuff - only Baal Predators and Land Speeders are fast
Iechine wrote: Im having some PDF issues, why does the Heldrake blow now?
Previous FAQs doesn't count anymore. So Heldrake lost the Turret mounting on his weapons. It needs to be fired in a 45 degree arc from the muzzle of the weapon. So, you cannot hit people behind/at your side.
And Abaddon can become spawn/daemon prince again, lol
You might have known that.. but there are plenty who argued the other side as you know, whether it was effective or not.
Personally, I'll take triple of the same Witchfire any day over a useless Artefact and Divination. Now I won't feel cheated if I roll up 3 blessings and 1 witchfire. Know what I mean man?
Iechine wrote: Im having some PDF issues, why does the Heldrake blow now?
Hull mounted weapon, not 360 from the base anymore.
ausYenLoWang wrote:
Iechine wrote: Im having some PDF issues, why does the Heldrake blow now?
hull mounted weapon, so 45deg LOS arcs and cant wound outside of those arcs if i read right...
Vector Strike wrote:I just noticed Blood Angels lost almost ALL of its Fast stuff - only Baal Predators and Land Speeders are fast
Iechine wrote: Im having some PDF issues, why does the Heldrake blow now?
Previous FAQs doesn't count anymore. So Heldrake lost the Turret mounting on his weapons. It needs to be fired in a 45 degree arc from the muzzle of the weapon. So, you cannot hit people behind/at your side.
Brometheus wrote: You might have known that.. but there are plenty who argued the other side as you know, whether it was effective or not.
Personally, I'll take triple of the same Witchfire any day over a useless Artefact and Divination. Now I won't feel cheated if I roll up 3 blessings and 1 witchfire. Know what I mean man?
even still far too expensive for his power :( if he had better survivability...
and lech you laugh now... look what they allow now with daemon allies... the only thing that really stopped me is now gone ill trade drakes for all that divination or free daemons
I was expecting some kind of FAQ for Shadows in the Warp...none delivered. I guess the leadership penalty just hurts on those couple-three Perils of the Warp results.
Or Morale tests, or Pinning tests, or Psychic Scream, or Psychic Shriek, or Neuro Shredders...
In case you're missing the point, Shadow in the Warp has nothing to do with Psychic tests. It's -3 Leadership.
"If a weapon uses a template or blast marker and hits one or more units protected by a Void shield Zone, ignore the number of hits it would normally cause"
jasper76 wrote: It should be noted that Tyranids got the screwjob once again.
I was expecting some kind of FAQ for Shadows in the Warp...none delivered. I guess the leadership penalty just hurts on those couple-three Perils of the Warp results.
You aren't alone. Daemons of Tzeentch still get +3 Ld when manifesting Psychic Powers; it wasn't addressed in the FAQ. I don't know if you can keep the extra Ld for Perils tests...
I'd assume so, since they didn't FAQ it.
So Tzeentch daemons get +3 leadership, Shadows in the Warp gives -2 leadership...this only comes into play now if you're rolling on the Perils of the Warp table and hit one with a leadership test, or so it would seem...
Actually, Tzeentch Daemons only get a +3 Ld when casting powers. Since Perils tests are not casting, they may not use the bonus at that point. Expect some dead Heralds and Horrors. The only benefit to picking Tzeentch, at this point, is the re-roll saves bit. I was really hoping Tzeentch would get a +1 to casting rolls, or something like that, to represent how Magical they are. At this point, they're no better at Psychic crap than anyone else.
Drager wrote: No inquisition FAQ means no Objective Secured for Inquisition. May as well take them unbound.
I would assume that Digital Books, like Inquisition, have an updated version. I'm downloading mine now. There isn't a version number on my BL downloads page, unfortunately.
Since it was an Errata (ie: and actual changing of the way the rule was written), no you can't
Yep, if they have to actually re-write the rule to make it say it, then that means the old rule that was previously under discussion did NOT say the same thing...
Elric Greywolf wrote: Actually, Tzeentch Daemons only get a +3 Ld when casting powers. Since Perils tests are not casting, they may not use the bonus at that point. Expect some dead Heralds and Horrors. The only benefit to picking Tzeentch, at this point, is the re-roll saves bit.
And SitW is -3, not -2.
That's incorrect. Pg 24 of the Rulebook has a red-bordered box entitled Manifesting Psychic Powers Sequence and lists the five stages of manifesting a power. The entire box applies to manifesting a single power and it applies to each power you manifest in order. Since perils are listed as stage 3, then perils are considered a part of manifesting psychic powers. The rule for Daemons of Tzeentch specifically allows the +3 Leadership bonus "when manifesting powers", which includes ALL FIVE STEPS of the Manifesting Psychic Powers Sequence.
So yes, Tzeentch demons do get a +3 Leadership bonus any time they roll on perils.
Similar scenarios exist in CCGs with timing structures. The window of opportunity that Tzeentch's boon may be triggered opens before step 1 and closes after step 5 when the psychic power has resolved.
Since it was an Errata (ie: and actual changing of the way the rule was written), no you can't
Well, it confirms my thoughts on Intent and further proves my argumentation on the issue was correct, but as it is now written we can put the matter to rest!
And i will try to fully deflate the mounting Ego pressure
Drager wrote: No inquisition FAQ means no Objective Secured for Inquisition. May as well take them unbound.
I would assume that Digital Books, like Inquisition, have an updated version. I'm downloading mine now. There isn't a version number on my BL downloads page, unfortunately.
Drager wrote: No inquisition FAQ means no Objective Secured for Inquisition. May as well take them unbound.
I would assume that Digital Books, like Inquisition, have an updated version. I'm downloading mine now. There isn't a version number on my BL downloads page, unfortunately.
Kyutaru wrote: According to the Chaos Daemons FAQ, Daemonology can be used by any psyker or brotherhood of sorcerers in addition to the disciplines on their army entry lists.
In other words, Pink Horrors can summon daemons.
Daemon Factory is officially allowed and sanctioned by Games Workshop.
Like there was any question, ruling any other way may have limited the amount of Daemon models people would want to buy; wouldn't be a COMPLETE cash grab if they hadn't ruled this way....
Also being the Warlord doesn't make them a character, how do they issue challenges?
Check the Iyanden supplement FAQ.
Well it's a bit of a misleading statement without the "Iyanden" part
Yeah sorry, lol. I just got a bit excited and posted without being too clear. Yeah, if you make him the warlord in a Iyanden Detachment, he is a Character.
grendel083 wrote: Ork Wierdboyz use daemanoloogy instead of their awesome chart? What nonsense is this!?!
ya that sucks. I loved warpheads and the fun things they did.
But on the other hand, nobz are characters again
Unit: nob type IN character
they also noted that an 'ard boy nob is a character, but there is no entry for ork boy nob as a character so it seems boy mobs don't need to worry about challenges now
To all space wolves, yes winter is comming but...:
runic weapon gets nerfed (which we should have expected, I just didnt expect it before the new codex) but it is still a free wargear on otherwise good models to have in the army so they will be there
and notice that you still have 5+ deny the power (only one dice nomatter how many 4+ they needed) for only the points of a combiweapon! This my friends is huge! they will be seen everywhere
SlyasR wrote: To all space wolves, yes winter is comming but...:
runic weapon gets nerfed (which we should have expected, I just didnt expect it before the new codex) but it is still a free wargear on otherwise good models to have in the army so they will be there
and notice that you still have 5+ deny the power (only one dice nomatter how many 4+ they needed) for only the points of a combiweapon! This my friends is huge! they will be seen everywhere
The nerf is debatable. See my post here. GWFAQ'd to replace the wrong sentence. You get both +1 to DtW and flat 4+ nullify, by RAW.
Rakear wrote: The nerf to runic weapons isnt what everyone seems to think it is.
It just says replace the 3rd sentence with the new deny the witch +1.
problem is, the 3rd sentence only says its a force weapon...
so its no longer a force weapon, gets +1 deny, still has the 4+ 24" aura, etc.
And as far as I can tell, they also removed the previous FAQ that said you can either attempt to nullify OR deny, but not both. So im sure they may pop back up as a hot topic.
SlyasR wrote: To all space wolves, yes winter is comming but...:
runic weapon gets nerfed (which we should have expected, I just didnt expect it before the new codex) but it is still a free wargear on otherwise good models to have in the army so they will be there
and notice that you still have 5+ deny the power (only one dice nomatter how many 4+ they needed) for only the points of a combiweapon! This my friends is huge! they will be seen everywhere
The nerf is debatable. See my post here. GWFAQ'd to replace the wrong sentence. You get both +1 to DtW and flat 4+ nullify, by RAW.
New rules about Farsight Enclaves now let us choose Farsight Enclaves as a detachment, but pick Farsight from Tau Empire Detachment and use normal Bodyguards. And those can have Signature Systems!
No rules o O'Vesa, though. Gotta see if a Rulebook FAQ in the future will rule anything about ICMCs
SlyasR wrote: To all space wolves, yes winter is comming but...:
runic weapon gets nerfed (which we should have expected, I just didnt expect it before the new codex) but it is still a free wargear on otherwise good models to have in the army so they will be there
and notice that you still have 5+ deny the power (only one dice nomatter how many 4+ they needed) for only the points of a combiweapon! This my friends is huge! they will be seen everywhere
The nerf is debatable. See my post here. GWFAQ'd to replace the wrong sentence. You get both +1 to DtW and flat 4+ nullify, by RAW.
this is just lame noone will read it like this seriously
I didnt read it like that either, at first. I took it to mean the 4+ nullify is gone. But then I looked at what the 3rd sentence actually is. What people actually play is one thing, but the RAW is what it is currently.
So my issue is that many answered questions that still pertain to older codices, like Grey Knights, are now just gone.
Are we now to argue how the Vindicare Assasin's Deadshot works? How about Dreadknights getting +1 attack for two weapons? Per the rules, I can now take two Grand Masters and put two different Grand Strategies on the same unit.
SlyasR wrote: To all space wolves, yes winter is comming but...:
runic weapon gets nerfed (which we should have expected, I just didnt expect it before the new codex) but it is still a free wargear on otherwise good models to have in the army so they will be there
and notice that you still have 5+ deny the power (only one dice nomatter how many 4+ they needed) for only the points of a combiweapon! This my friends is huge! they will be seen everywhere
The nerf is debatable. See my post here. GWFAQ'd to replace the wrong sentence. You get both +1 to DtW and flat 4+ nullify, by RAW.
this is just lame noone will read it like this seriously
I didnt read it like that either, at first. I took it to mean the 4+ nullify is gone. But then I looked at what the 3rd sentence actually is. What people actually play is one thing, but the RAW is what it is currently.
I certainly wouldnt play the guy who tried that on me
from 4+ nullify and force to be nerfed to 4+ nullify and +1 Deny (which is useless because you use 4+ ) and then on top of that it isnt a force weapon, although njal gets it, which is good. And since Njal gets it, it even further show that its just plain incompetence from GW
(and anyhow... Im forging a narrative here so I will take a 2+ nullify)
SlyasR wrote: To all space wolves, yes winter is comming but...:
runic weapon gets nerfed (which we should have expected, I just didnt expect it before the new codex) but it is still a free wargear on otherwise good models to have in the army so they will be there
and notice that you still have 5+ deny the power (only one dice nomatter how many 4+ they needed) for only the points of a combiweapon! This my friends is huge! they will be seen everywhere
The nerf is debatable. See my post here. GWFAQ'd to replace the wrong sentence. You get both +1 to DtW and flat 4+ nullify, by RAW.
this is just lame noone will read it like this seriously
I didnt read it like that either, at first. I took it to mean the 4+ nullify is gone. But then I looked at what the 3rd sentence actually is. What people actually play is one thing, but the RAW is what it is currently.
I certainly wouldnt play the guy who tried that on me
from 4+ nullify and force to be nerfed to 4+ nullify and +1 Deny (which is useless because you use 4+ ) and then on top of that it isnt a force weapon, although njal gets it, which is good. And since Njal gets it, it even further show that its just plain incompetence from GW
(and anyhow... Im forging a narrative here so I will take a 2+ nullify)
The flat 4+ isn't always better. Get that Rune Priest into a unit with Adamantine Will and it could get down to a 3+ deny for him and his unit. Also, I don't know why you wouldn't play against someone who uses one or the other. Its not like its game breaking abuse of RAW. But as with any opponent, its always your choice to play them or not.
A single flat 4+ to nullify non targeted psychic powers is huge, coupled with the fact you can still choose to deny if you fail in that as that restriction is gone now.
Marius Xerxes wrote: Also, I don't know why you wouldn't play against someone who uses one or the other. Its not like its game breaking abuse of RAW. But as with any opponent, its always your choice to play them or not..
Because its a ridiculous claim. Maybe that isn't game changing but I guy who thinks this rule should be read as that (not saying you think that) probably finds more of these editing mistakes which makes no sense to profit off of them.
TheKbob wrote: So my issue is that many answered questions that still pertain to older codices, like Grey Knights, are now just gone.
Are we now to argue how the Vindicare Assasin's Deadshot works? How about Dreadknights getting +1 attack for two weapons? Per the rules, I can now take two Grand Masters and put two different Grand Strategies on the same unit.
*sigh*
I also cannot fathom why they would delete everything except the Callidus's answers. They're strange people.
We also lost Astral Aim, which was pretty much the only viable way to make 24" Heavy Weapon units survive on a battlefield. Now I can't hide behind a hill while my enemy advances, and shoot from out of LoS--I have to move, losing half my shots, when he gets in range, thus setting myself up to be targeted by Plasma Blasts and D-weapons. *sigh* So many old, good tactics to trash.
Iechine wrote: Im having some PDF issues, why does the Heldrake blow now?
hull mounted weapon, so 45deg LOS arcs and cant wound outside of those arcs if i read right...
Doesnt templates and blasts kinda thing still wound out of LOS?
its a very narrow field to start the template in, and the small end still needs to be closer per torrent
Template weapons still need LoS for wound allocation. Only Blast (Large Blast, etc) get to wound out of LoS. So, Baledrake needs to be pointed at what it wants to kill now.
Problem with the editing mistakes is this is gw we are talking about here, are they mistakes? or just a dumb change? they are known for both.
These faqs recant things from previous faqs, delete entire lines of things that were clarification and then leave us with what we have.
i am pretty sure the runic weapon change is a typo, they meant the next sentence. but until they say that or update the faq to reflect that you only have one option, and thats to accept whats written. there is nothing ambiguous about the way its written, it clearly says sentence 3 and not 4. it is what it is till its changed. playing it any other way is ignoring the faq.
really wish they would proof read, or get a second opinion on things when they make sweeping changes like this, most of these faq's dont adress the things they needed to, and just created more things that need adressing.
All I am happy about with FAQ and Space Wolves: No more whining about JotWW.
As for the Rune Weapon vs Force Weapon 4+ Deny Subject...
I don't know yet I will still spend some time reading it.
Rakear wrote: Problem with the editing mistakes is this is gw we are talking about here, are they mistakes? or just a dumb change? they are known for both.
These faqs recant things from previous faqs, delete entire lines of things that were clarification and then leave us with what we have.
i am pretty sure the runic weapon change is a typo, they meant the next sentence. but until they say that or update the faq to reflect that you only have one option, and thats to accept whats written. there is nothing ambiguous about the way its written, it clearly says sentence 3 and not 4. it is what it is till its changed. playing it any other way is ignoring the faq.
really wish they would proof read, or get a second opinion on things when they make sweeping changes like this, most of these faq's dont adress the things they needed to, and just created more things that need adressing.
Is pretty much my feelings exactly. I don't play SW, but I have no issue playing against a SW player who uses this.
Related:
Its a huge benefit to SW, and through allies, all Imperial armies. But so is demonology to Deamons and throwing an insane (and can grow by the turn) amount of warp charge dice to get powers off. Getting clear cut way to combat that insanity is fine by me.
The third sentence of the Runic Weapons rule should be replaced with the following:
'Furthermore, a model with a runic weapon adds 1 to deny the witch rolls.'
Page 53 - Staff of the StormCaller wrote:
Replace the Staff of the Stormcaller's rule with the following:
'The Staff of the Stormcaller is a runic weapon (stave) that grants Njal an additional +1 bonus to Deny the Witch rolls (for a total bonus of +2).'
Original Text (emphasis mine)
Spoiler:
Runic Weapon: Runic weapons are the signature tools of the Rune Priests, often taking the form of staffs or wickedly bladed axes. Carved with protective sigils and canticles of banishment, the weapon affords excellent protection against the powers of the Warp. A runic weapon is a force weapon. Furthermore, whenever an enemy model succeeds on a psychic test within 24" of the bearer, roll a dice - on the roll of a 4+ that power is nullified. A runic weapon always wounds Daemon models on the roll of a 2+. This special ability has no effect on vehicle models.
Staff of the Stormcaller: Njal's staff acts as a runic weapon that nullifies enemy psychic powers on the roll of a 3+ (see page 36).
New Text (emphasis mine)
Runic Weapon: Runic weapons are the signature tools of the Rune Priests, often taking the form of staffs or wickedly bladed axes. Carved with protective sigils and canticles of banishment, the weapon affords excellent protection against the powers of the Warp. Furthermore, a model with a runic weapon adds 1 to deny the witch rolls. Furthermore, whenever an enemy model succeeds on a psychic test within 24" of the bearer, roll a dice - on the roll of a 4+ that power is nullified. A runic weapon always wounds Daemon models on the roll of a 2+. This special ability has no effect on vehicle models.
Staff of the Stormcaller:The Staff of the Stormcaller is a runic weapon (stave) that grants Njal an additional +1 bonus to Deny the Witch rolls (for a total bonus of +2).
That 'Furthermore' shows their intent was to replace exactly the 24" stuff line, while keeping Force weapons...
Quite the discussion because of a 'third setence' instead of 'fourth setence'
Vector Strike wrote: That 'Furthermore' shows their intent was to replace exactly the 24" stuff line, while keeping Force weapons...
Quite the discussion because of a 'third setence' instead of 'fourth setence'
The problem is that we can't make decisions off of intent. We have to go with RAW. So unless your TO or GWFAQs it, we're stuck with what we have.
Happyjew wrote: BA no longer have their own powers. They roll on tables like everyone else. Problem "solved".
Along with SW. No more Jaws.
And Runic weapons nerfed/adjusted to +1 DTW.
Is that really a nerf though? It is now unlimited range and each dice you roll for DTW is 5+... Njal is 4+. That seems pretty decent.
Sorry if this was called out already, TLDR whole thread, but the FAQ said to replace the 3rd sentence in the Runic Weapon entry... Technically the 3rd sentence states that "A Runic Weapon is a Force Weapon", and the 4th sentence says "nullifies psychic powers on a 4+" (paraphrasing)
So RAW it's not a force weapon but gets +1 Deny the Witch, and gives you the 4+ roll to outright nullify powers within 24"
On that note, it should be relatively easy to determine how much of a rush job the new BRB was, once the next codex arrives. If it requires numerous errata changes, then you know that it was not intended to correspond to the 7th ed rules.
If it doesn't, then you'll know that this was planned for a looooong time.
off to have a look.
wait i just realised it means Detachement, so it CAN be an allied detachment, rather than just normal daemons detachments as well, so in each allies detachment i COULD take 4 heralds + a unit of pink horrors? ouuchie..
