As above- just been on GW site and the following kits have been labelled as No Longer Available
Celestian Squad
Adepta Sororitas Command
Retributors Squad
Seraphim Squad
Adepta Sororitas Dominion Squad
AS Superior w/Power Maul
AS Superior w/Chainsword & bolt pistol
AS Blessed Banner
AS Simulacrum Imperialis
AS Superior w/Chainsword & Plasma pistol
Missionary w/Chainsword
AS w/Melta & Flamer
Looks like the Adepta Sororitas are A) Being revamped or B) Being mothballed.
By the way, here's a question: Since the Sisters of Battle are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy, what's the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus? Is there one?
Intriguing! I was talking to a guy last weekend that claimed a friend of his from GW (Friend of a friend story, I know) told him that once all current codices are updated SoB will be getting a physical codex, and plans were in the works to update their minis soon.
I didn't believe a word at the time, now.... not so sure.
By the way, here's a question: Since the Sisters of Battle are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy, what's the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus? Is there one?
Adepta Sororitas are chamber militant of Ordo Hereticus?
Squidbot wrote: Intriguing! I was talking to a guy last weekend that claimed a friend of his from GW (Friend of a friend story, I know) told him that once all current codices are updated SoB will be getting a physical codex, and plans were in the works to update their minis soon.
I didn't believe a word at the time, now.... not so sure.
Once all the codices are updated? With this new edition, does it mean sob is at the end of the queue now? Certainly hope we get it before 8th edition. Lol
By the way, here's a question: Since the Sisters of Battle are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy, what's the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus? Is there one?
Adepta Sororitas are chamber militant of Ordo Hereticus?
From Lexicanum.org:
The Ordo Malleus' Chamber Militant are the Grey Knights.
The Ordo Hereticus' Chamber Militant are the Orders Militant of the Adepta Sororitas, also known as the Sisters of Battle.
The Ordo Xenos' Chamber Militant are the Deathwatch.
I actually liked the metal models. Because they don't get bits which stick out and break easily. They were all sensibly cradling their bolters close to their body.
"So what are we going to do about the Sister of Battle line?"
"The what?"
"Adeptas sororitas"
"Adawhonow?"
"Look, we're running low on stock. Are we going to recast in plastic, or what?"
"No, really, what?"
"Adeptas Sororitas! Sisters of battle, the female army!"
"We.... still make those?"
"Yes, yes, that's the point. We're running low on stock, we've had to list them as no longer available. How are we going to replace them?"
"Why would we?"
"Well, we released a new digital codex last year."
"That was real?!"
"well... yeah."
"I thought you were joking! I said yes just to play along!"
"Well it's real, and we have a lot of players that still want to use them as an army, there are some very dedicated players that really enjoy the lore of that army. So what are we going to do about the out of stock models?"
"Pfft, let them ally with any other Imperial faction, that way they can still use their models and we don't have to bother with them. Hand me another Riptide for my unbound army, please."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Slow day at work, sorry
Squidbot wrote: "So what are we going to do about the Sister of Battle line?"
"The what?"
"Adeptas sororitas"
"Adawhonow?"
"Look, we're running low on stock. Are we going to recast in plastic, or what?"
"No, really, what?"
"Adeptas Sororitas! Sisters of battle, the female army!"
"We.... still make those?"
"Yes, yes, that's the point. We're running low on stock, we've had to list them as no longer available. How are we going to replace them?"
"Why would we?"
"Well, we released a new digital codex last year."
"That was real?!"
"well... yeah."
"I thought you were joking! I said yes just to play along!"
"Well it's real, and we have a lot of players that still want to use them as an army, there are some very dedicated players that really enjoy the lore of that army. So what are we going to do about the out of stock models?"
"Pfft, let them ally with any other Imperial faction, that way they can still use their models and we don't have to bother with them. Hand me another Riptide for my unbound army, please."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Slow day at work, sorry
Still the most likely MO of the company..
Rejoyce! Repentia and penitent engines aren't gone.
I have faith... (/cymbals) that there's going to be a redo and that they won't be getting shelved.
They feature in several pages of background and army building in the 7th ed book. They'd have been quietly slipped out of it if they were to be getting removed.
We know from as far back as the Dark Eldar redo that Jes G and co were working on putting sisters onto plastic sprues. They are at a low ebb now, but they'll survive, JJ said no more squatting of armies, ever, I think it's a matter of pride and protecting their design IP wise, to release them again.
"He called me on the way home, drunk, but this time it will be because he just got a head start on the wine he got for the romantic evening he's planned. He won't beat me again. Not this time."
By the way, here's a question: Since the Sisters of Battle are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy, what's the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus? Is there one?
Adepta Sororitas are chamber militant of Ordo Hereticus?
So you mean to say that they're both?
They're essentially both. They're the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy but they work closely with the Ordo Hereticus because the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy have similar objectives. Burning heretics.
I too cant see them being killed as they feature quite a lot in the 7th ed rule books with a fair bit of new artwork.
If the rough idea of Orks, BA, ???, then sisters sometime next year, I could believe it as after orks and the other SM chapters, Necrons and DA isn't that all the codexes turned into hardback 6/7th edition??
Thud wrote: "He called me on the way home, drunk, but this time it will be because he just got a head start on the wine he got for the romantic evening he's planned. He won't beat me again. Not this time."
this sums up my relationship with GW a bit too well ;_; TBF I left the mop out so it's my fault they took away what I loved about forest spirits......it's not their fault........
not sure how I feel about plastic sisters. I have pretty much a fully painted 2K army of the old metal models and more of them will just phase out the old metal ones if they look nicer. the other problem is it's 7th ed and I have no wish to play with :/
My gosh... Are you feeling okay, Dakka? There is far too much optimism about the Sisters in this thread. I am worried for you.
But yeah, I am also cautiously optimistic about this... If nothing else, maybe it'll spur them to some sort of action, at last. It's my view that the evidence does support GW intending to do a model update for the Sisters, so this might push those plans forward. We can only hope.
Also, it is of course a shame that the metal models are seemingly dying off.
Steve steveson wrote: I guess that would put them after Orks if stuff is missing now.
Doubtful. The rumours probably would have picked up on it by now. But, on the other hand, GW's plans could change. I doubt we'll see them right after the Orks, but this might just push them forwards on the schedule a bit.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few who actually like the SoB model range.
The current range is divisive, but it certainly has its fans. They do have a good aesthetic.
Indeed. Inquisition codex only lists the Hereticus as "watching" the Sisters, as opposed to noting the two as even allies.
Apparently the 7th codex reuses the line from 6th about them having "close ties" (or something to that effect) to the Ordo Hereticus, but that's the closest relationship that is stated, these days.
Shandara wrote: From Lexicanum.org:
The Ordo Malleus' Chamber Militant are the Grey Knights.
The Ordo Hereticus' Chamber Militant are the Orders Militant of the Adepta Sororitas, also known as the Sisters of Battle.
The Ordo Xenos' Chamber Militant are the Deathwatch.
Have you forgotten all that discussion from when the Witch Hunters codex was reduced to just Sisters of Battle because they weren't the Inquisition's chamber militant? Either Lexicanum is wrong, Games Workshop is wrong, or they're a part-time chamber militant.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I have faith... (/cymbals) that there's going to be a redo and that they won't be getting shelved.
They feature in several pages of background and army building in the 7th ed book. They'd have been quietly slipped out of it if they were to be getting removed.
I draw your attention, good sir, to the temporary army lists and background section (a complete section!) for Squats in 2nd edition
angelofvengeance wrote: As above- just been on GW site and the following kits have been labelled as No Longer Available.
Haven't these been "No longer available" for years?
A lot of them haven't, no.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quarterdime wrote: Have you forgotten all that discussion from when the Witch Hunters codex was reduced to just Sisters of Battle because they weren't the Inquisition's chamber militant? Either Lexicanum is wrong, Games Workshop is wrong, or they're a part-time chamber militant.
Essentially, what's happened is that GW changed the fluff, but the idea of Sisters as Chamber Militant to the Hereticus has become so popularised that many people assume it to still be the case.
I think that it stems from the Sisters being seperated out from the Hereticus. Pre-WH codex, the Sisters were just the Ecclesiarchy's armed forces. Then, Codex: Witch Hunters came along and introduced the Chamber Militant idea as a way to justify the Sisters and Hereticus sharing a codex. Then the two got seperated out into different codexes again in 5th, and GW likely saw no reason to keep going with the Chamber Militant fluff and basically dropped it. But they were fairly unclear and discreet about dropping it, hence the confusion.
Troike wrote: Essentially, what's happened is that GW changed the fluff, but the idea of Sisters as Chamber Militant to the Hereticus has become so popularised that many people assume it to still be the case.
I think that it stems from the Sisters being seperated out from the Hereticus. Pre-WH codex, the Sisters were just the Ecclesiarchy's armed forces. Then, Codex: Witch Hunters came along and introduced the Chamber Militant idea as a way to justify the Sisters and Hereticus sharing a codex. Then the two got seperated out into different codexes again in 5th, and GW likely saw no reason to keep going with the Chamber Militant fluff and basically dropped it. But they were fairly unclear and discreet about dropping it, hence the confusion.
Thanks for the explanation! I knew I wasn't crazy.
Hopefully they stay gone lol. I can already see the problems now with new kits
Models look attractive or have any skin showing "They are sexest and need women with more manlyand less woman like features" from the fan base. Never got why people hate pretty women or women dressing comfortably.
Or they make just heads for them and sell you a space marine body people freak out again. Because they want it to look like a woman with out any woman shape or boob armour "If I remember correctly about people complaining about that aswell".
There is just no win with the sisters me thinks.
Plus there is no rumors about them being updated anytime soon so with no models for .... what at least 3-4 months I thinkthe army will kill itself off.
Hell maybe they will combine them with other dead armies aka bretoni
Once all the codices are updated? With this new edition, does it mean sob is at the end of the queue now? Certainly hope we get it before 8th edition. Lol
8th Edition will likely be out in Novermber , so I hope they hurry!
Models look attractive or have any skin showing "They are sexest and need women with more manlyand less woman like features" from the fan base. Never got why people hate pretty women or women dressing comfortably. Or they make just heads for them and sell you a space marine body people freak out again. Because they want it to look like a woman with out any woman shape or boob armour "If I remember correctly about people complaining about that aswell".
Er, I doubt that either of those is what will happen. More likely, GW will keep to the current look, which is full-body armour with a distinctive aesthetic. I don't expect that they'll randomly turn them into skimpy supermodels or Space Marine clones for no reason.
OgreChubbs wrote: Plus there is no rumors about them being updated anytime soon so with no models for .... what at least 3-4 months I thinkthe army will kill itself off.
Not yet there haven't. But there has been GWdevs saying that GW has tried to make plastics of them in the past, and the fact that they've kept the Sisters around despite the lack of updates.
OgreChubbs wrote: Hell maybe they will combine them with other dead armies aka bretoni
Actually, there have been a lot of rumours about Brets getting a release soon.
Didn't this already happen before with some of the models?
Granted, not this many at once, and I too would love to see new sisters (many of the old minis are great but... plastic is always better) but I really don't believe this signals it.
I think that one or two have gone temporarily, yes.
However, what's also been happening over time is models just outright vanishing and not coming back, such as Kyrinov, or all of the Seraphim Superiors. Seeing this many listed as "no longer avaliable" rather than "temporarily out of stock" is certainly something new.
Edit: Also, the Bretons being mentioned in this topic reminds me that they've been left for quite some time with lots of units missing. Sisters might end up having to wait a while for a model update, unfortunately.
This is interesting, I was thinking it'd a Adeptus Mechanicus codex we might see, after seeing all the Mechanicus stuff on the Imperial knight sprues and that rumour that we'd get see a completely new codex soon.
Maybe there will just be an imperial 'dex with a combination of stuff coming out, like inquisition was.
obsidianaura wrote: This is interesting, I was thinking it'd a Adeptus Mechanicus codex we might see, after seeing all the Mechanicus stuff on the Imperial knight sprues and that rumour that we'd get see a completely new codex soon.
Maybe there will just be an imperial 'dex with a combination of stuff coming out, like inquisition was.
It's be Adeptus Stuff-leftoverus
Maybe the Ad Mech codex will come some day... But if it does, I wouldn't count on it being done like that. It's just too messy. There are techpriest models and techmarine models and a couple of servitor models. That counts as what you're talking about, doesn't it? Would you really want to try to make an army out of them?
obsidianaura wrote: This is interesting, I was thinking it'd a Adeptus Mechanicus codex we might see, after seeing all the Mechanicus stuff on the Imperial knight sprues and that rumour that we'd get see a completely new codex soon.
Maybe there will just be an imperial 'dex with a combination of stuff coming out, like inquisition was.
It's be Adeptus Stuff-leftoverus
Maybe the Ad Mech codex will come some day... But if it does, I wouldn't count on it being done like that. It's just too messy. There are techpriest models and techmarine models and a couple of servitor models. That counts as what you're talking about, doesn't it? Would you really want to try to make an army out of them?
There's the bits on FW too although I guess that's 30K stuff?
But I don't know what I want, not just those few models no.
I just like guessing what GW is up to. I'm never right though, those guys are mental
I wouldn't mind some nice Sisters of Battle models, and it seems unlikely that they would include the SoB in their recently-revamped rulebook and then discard the army so that seems like it might be a harbinger of things to come.
As much as I'd like some nice Sisters models in plastic, GW has gotten my hopes up more than a few times with concepts and then disappointed with execution. The Knight was a nice kit, but most everything else of late hasn't really gotten that "wow" factor for me to justify the pricing they'll undoubtedly want. Hope to be proven wrong if they do revamp the army, but it's not the way I'm going to bet.
Well, if it works out and there will be new models, I'm glad for all you SOB players out there. I think I'd even accept SoB to be the next update, and that's something coming from an ork player
Honestly, the abusive relationship analogy is so spot on here. Metal models, though I love them dearly, are not a part of GW's production schedule. As old stock sells out, it will only be replaced if there is a SIGNIFICANT financial motivation to do so. Most Sisters players have everything they need at this point, so the few units of product they would move at this point is not worth the cost of turning on the machines that still make metal minis.
The updated digital 'dex was done to sell excess stock. Mission accomplished. Kyrinov was removed because they looked at stock levels and realized that if they put him into the 'dex as a special character, they had so few left that they'd either need to spin-up a batch or risk an uproar if they sold-out right after creating the update. Neither option was desirable.
Plastic sisters will not be produced in the near future. The name change protects the IP in case the company wants to revisit the line down the road. Sisters will not be "squatted," because you can always ally them under the IoM heading. Win-win for GW since you don't alienate the vets and ink is cheaper than white metal.
the_Armyman wrote: it will only be replaced if there is a SIGNIFICANT financial motivation to do so.
It got to the bestsellers list on iBooks, and that's not taking into account what they sold on BL.
Spoiler:
Aside from that, there is also the case of the Dark Eldar and apparently the Bretonians getting model updates depsite having long-running metal models.
Additionally, comments from GW developers indicate that they have attempted to make plastic Sisters in the past. Now, just why have they done that if they have no motivation to make plastic Sisters?
the_Armyman wrote: Most Sisters players have everything they need at this point
Many people would buy plastics Sisters, but just don't like the metal models for various reasons. Similarly, many existing SoB players would love to pick up some new models. And, finally, new players are also a potential audience.
the_Armyman wrote: it will only be replaced if there is a SIGNIFICANT financial motivation to do so.
It got to the bestsellers list on iBooks, and that's not taking into account what they sold on BL.
Spoiler:
It got to the best sellers list in Germany. How hard is that to do? How long did it stay there, a day? Not a good metric, IMO.
Aside from that, there is also the case of the Dark Eldar and apparently the Bretonians getting model updates depsite having long-running metal models.
That was years ago. It's lean times at Nottingham. GW can no longer throw resources at lines that do not make money. Lots of money.
Additionally, comments from GW developers indicate that they have attempted to make plastic Sisters in the past. Now, just why have they done that if they have no motivation to make plastic Sisters?
Something to do with the robes, right? I've heard that old yarn before. Again, what they did or proposed years ago has no bearing on today's financial realities.
the_Armyman wrote: Most Sisters players have everything they need at this point
Many people would buy plastics Sisters, but just don't like the metal models for various reasons. Similarly, many existing SoB players would love to pick up some new models. And, finally, new players are also a potential audience.
You have your totally unsubstantiated and unquantifiable opinion, and I have mine A fresh line of plastic Sisters would be a huge financial investment and gamble, and it's one that GW will not undertake in this financial climate.
I remember when rumors of the Dark Eldar getting an update started to ramp up.
Lots of people dismissed them very aggressively, saying there was no way they could possibly get an update. They were too old, too few people played them, there was no market, they would need too much...
Then GW released them and for a good while they were the bees knees, the best success story that GW has seen in a good while. It took a lot for GW to get to that point though. It took a serious investment of capital, and a bit of risk.
That was years ago, and since then we've had two new editions, an update to Grey Knights (another army few believed would be updated) and even Necron (yet ANOTHER army that few people believed would get the treatment that it got).
Now, GW has been building capital and running down stock of Adeptas Sororitas models. They've been the go-to for running down metal, the best way to sell that metal without selling the metal as scrap or slag. The metal is running out, and almost all of the 40k and Fantasy codices are hardback...
I think it's just a matter of time. We may have to wait for Orks, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and even another round of Dark Eldar and Grey Knights before we get there, but I strongly believe that Sisters will be updated.
They did it with Dark Eldar, they can do it again. I'd invest a lot of money into a plastic Sisters army. I love the lore and I love the look, I just can't stand the models as they are.
the_Armyman wrote: it will only be replaced if there is a SIGNIFICANT financial motivation to do so.
It got to the bestsellers list on iBooks, and that's not taking into account what they sold on BL.
Spoiler:
Aside from that, there is also the case of the Dark Eldar and apparently the Bretonians getting model updates depsite having long-running metal models.
Additionally, comments from GW developers indicate that they have attempted to make plastic Sisters in the past. Now, just why have they done that if they have no motivation to make plastic Sisters?
the_Armyman wrote: Most Sisters players have everything they need at this point
Many people would buy plastics Sisters, but just don't like the metal models for various reasons. Similarly, many existing SoB players would love to pick up some new models. And, finally, new players are also a potential audience.
The reason I don't play sisters is because I don't feel like spending ~$80 for a squad. I'm not THAT crazy...
Eldarain wrote: The real question is would Sisters players actually be happy about getting an update?
A great many of them seem to enjoy their persecution complexes.
You've answered your own question really. Sisters players being unhappy is a universal constant. They want an update, and when they get an update they complain about their update. They want a new model range, but you better believe they won't be happy with it.
Eldarain wrote: The real question is would Sisters players actually be happy about getting an update?
A great many of them seem to enjoy their persecution complexes.
I think you'd find most Sisters of Battle players incredibly happy to have an update.
And, you'd get lots of new players into the game as well. When you update a different flavor of Space Marines, you're not drawing people in. When you update a whole new army like with Dark Eldar, you attract people to the whole new playstyle and aesthetic. It's not just more of the same.
I would personally be happy for any new miniatures related to sisters.
I have grown tired of buying the same models over and over.
I currently own:
12 immolators
6 Exorcists
3 Penitent engines
2 Repressors and 1 Avenger from forge-world
Somewhere between 60-70 standard sisters and multiple copies of every special weapon, heavy weapon and special character models.
Getting something new to work on and paint would be a blessing at this point. I don't care what it would be, just give me something new to paint that will fit in my army.
I'd love to build a sisters army but its always been to cost restrictive, would be neat if they get some plastic models, even just plastic troop box would be a step in the right direction
By the way, here's a question: Since the Sisters of Battle are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy, what's the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus? Is there one?
Adepta Sororitas are chamber militant of Ordo Hereticus?
The Sisters are the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy, serving as it's shield and it's sword as needed. In addition to that sometimes the Sisters get recruited by the Inquisition (usually the Ordo Hereticus) to assist in missions and the like.The official ties of being a part of the Inquisition fell out of the book when the WD Codex happened and 6th didn't bring it back, so I'd say they're not officially the chamber militant.
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milkboy wrote: I actually liked the metal models. Because they don't get bits which stick out and break easily. They were all sensibly cradling their bolters close to their body.
Edited darned iOs autocorrect.
There is "cradling their bolters close to their body" and "it's fused with their bodies due to the limitations of old molds". Sisters have the latter.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few who actually like the SoB model range.
I like a fair amount aesthetically about the models but I hate painting them. I can never get paint to stop rubbing off as I'm trying to actively apply it, even when I wash the models.
I have enough models to field anything but the most ridiculous of stretching the limits of battle forged armies. I'm a good 16-20 melta gun sisters short of an unbound dominion spam list.
Thud wrote: "He called me on the way home, drunk, but this time it will be because he just got a head start on the wine he got for the romantic evening he's planned. He won't beat me again. Not this time."
"Especially since I bought this shotgun."
Seriously though, I'm not buying a single Sisters model until I've seen the codex and decided if they fethed Sisters up again or not. If they didn't, I'll go all in and do a full army update, if they did, then my army stays as is.
I like the metal models, but would prefer models that have more bits so that I can actually build my sisters superior to have the right equipment. (There's no reason to ever have a chainsword and plasma pistol.)
Once all the codices are updated? With this new edition, does it mean sob is at the end of the queue now? Certainly hope we get it before 8th edition. Lol
8th Edition will likely be out in Novermber , so I hope they hurry!
the_Armyman wrote: It got to the best sellers list in Germany. How hard is that to do? How long did it stay there, a day? Not a good metric, IMO.
It still mustered the sales to reach that spot in the first place, and that's next to more maintream books like that I am Malala one. Also, I do not see why it would be drastically different in other locations, unless Germans have a significantly greater interest in the SoB.
the_Armyman wrote: That was years ago. It's lean times at Nottingham. GW can no longer throw resources at lines that do not make money. Lots of money.
And yet, they were all too willing to go ahead with the Imperial Knights, a completely untested concept. Likewise, they continue doing fantasy updates despite Fantasy selling less than 40K. Additionally, they need only look at the sales of the SoB codex to see that there is sufficient interest in the SoB as an army.
What I'll be especially interested to see will be if this Bret release happens. If so, I think that it would support that GW are certainly still up for doing the Sisters, since the Brets are in a similar position to the Sisters.
the_Armyman wrote: Something to do with the robes, right? I've heard that old yarn before.
I don't really think that its some "old yarn" that they've spun. Reading over that interview with Jes Goodwin, it sounds like the issues were legit.
The impression In get is that they wanted to go with a certain look and still have everything be posable and look good in plastic. Could they have gotten around these issues somehow by changing their goals? Maybe, but that's just how they ended up doing things. It's also not inconcievable that development of the SoB was "put on the backburner" until a later date, hence the long period without an update.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You've answered your own question really. Sisters players being unhappy is a universal constant. They want an update, and when they get an update they complain about their update. They want a new model range, but you better believe they won't be happy with it.
The reason that some were unhappy with the update was due to its status as a digital-only codex that lacked a model release and had fewer units than before, which are all valid criticisms. And its not really fair to claim that SoB players would definetely be unhappy with the models "just because".
Eldarain wrote: The real question is would Sisters players actually be happy about getting an update?
A great many of them seem to enjoy their persecution complexes.
You've answered your own question really. Sisters players being unhappy is a universal constant. They want an update, and when they get an update they complain about their update. They want a new model range, but you better believe they won't be happy with it.
That's a little unfair seeing as the "updates" to the codex since 3rd edition have been to remove things, not add or fix anything. Complaining about losing options is always valid regardless of the army.
Sisters of Battle are certainly in better position than Dark Eldar were and they see to have a fair representation in other material so I very much doubt they're going away for long.
Eldarain wrote: The real question is would Sisters players actually be happy about getting an update?
A great many of them seem to enjoy their persecution complexes.
You've answered your own question really. Sisters players being unhappy is a universal constant. They want an update, and when they get an update they complain about their update. They want a new model range, but you better believe they won't be happy with it.
That's a little unfair seeing as the "updates" to the codex since 3rd edition have been to remove things, not add or fix anything. Complaining about losing options is always valid regardless of the army.
This is provably false, as I have done many times before.
While Sisters of Battle have not received new models since the Witchhunter release, they have received new units, updated rules, etc. We actually ended up with more SOB/Ecclesiarchy units in the last two dexes than in any previous dex, iirc.
I only have 10 sisters and 1 canonness, I wanted to use them as allies for my IG but never got around to paint them. I shall sell them (one guy really really likes metal models) and wait for a plastic update. It shall be my last army and it will be the biggest.
So, let's say that the line's being redone in plastic and we're getting the usual kit rollouts in celebration of this. That's six kits, I think? So, how would this be done? Hrm.
A Sister Superior blister pack.
A battle sister 10 model kit.
A Dominion/Retributor 5 model kit. (dual purpose)
A Celestine/Command 5 model kit (dual purpose)
A Seraphim squad 5 model kit
An Excorcist/Immolator kit (dual purpose)
This would leave out the Penitent Engine, which you'd think they'd want to focus on, Repenters, and the Battle Ecclesiary squad (Those latter two might get a pack together at some stage),
Of course, they also usually include 1-2 new models in new kits, so, who knows where that'd go.
Eldarain wrote: The real question is would Sisters players actually be happy about getting an update?
A great many of them seem to enjoy their persecution complexes.
You've answered your own question really. Sisters players being unhappy is a universal constant. They want an update, and when they get an update they complain about their update. They want a new model range, but you better believe they won't be happy with it.
That's a little unfair seeing as the "updates" to the codex since 3rd edition have been to remove things, not add or fix anything. Complaining about losing options is always valid regardless of the army.
This is provably false, as I have done many times before.
While Sisters of Battle have not received new models since the Witchhunter release, they have received new units, updated rules, etc. We actually ended up with more SOB/Ecclesiarchy units in the last two dexes than in any previous dex, iirc.
I'm sorry, I forgot the part where they gave us back two of the characters they took from us going from 2nd to 3rd and throwing in some models to support them.
And even if you want to claim new options were put in (and news flash; they aren't "new" if they're from an older codex, they're just being put back in after being ripped out in the first place), we lost a LOT of options going from 3rd to 5th. And then 5th to 6th we lost an HQ choice, lost one of our character models (Seraphim Superior), Acts of Faith got WORSE, Repentia got so bad that even I won't use them and generally the whole army looks like it was dragged by its hair into an ally and horribly beaten with a baseball bat. And then given a half-hearted apology in the way of dropping points on the Exorcist.
It's so unapologetically gak that I wrote GW and sent them a 20 page packet of things I felt needed to be adjusted/changed to make the army less gak. That included almost every damn thing in that "codex". I would have never been motivated to do that if this codex was even somewhat decent.
For the curious, the thing I sent in is attached. I'll admit it's probably not perfect (having about the same level of play testing as GW seemed to give the last two Sisters codexes, that is none) but I feel it does things better than they ever did and I spent less than a month actually writing it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wakshaani wrote: So, let's say that the line's being redone in plastic and we're getting the usual kit rollouts in celebration of this. That's six kits, I think? So, how would this be done? Hrm.
A Sister Superior blister pack.
A battle sister 10 model kit.
A Dominion/Retributor 5 model kit. (dual purpose)
A Celestine/Command 5 model kit (dual purpose)
A Seraphim squad 5 model kit
An Excorcist/Immolator kit (dual purpose)
This would leave out the Penitent Engine, which you'd think they'd want to focus on, Repenters, and the Battle Ecclesiary squad (Those latter two might get a pack together at some stage),
Of course, they also usually include 1-2 new models in new kits, so, who knows where that'd go.
I don't see Dominons and Retributors sharing a box seeing as one is all special weapons and the other is all heavy.
Also it's "Celestians" not "Celestine". Celestine is the flying lady in the gold armour with the naked babies carrying her security blanket while the Celestians are the veteran Sisters.
Superiors would likely be options in their own squad boxes, but I could see a Canoness model kit. If we're REALLY luck it might even come with more than one kind of option of weapons for her.
Exorcists has too many extra parts to double up with the Immolator (who is already a kit that is also our Rhino kit). Instead I'd expect the Exorcist to either be a stand-alone model kit or paired up with a new kit of some other kind.
I'd say that that's debatable. They scale now with the army's size now, so every unit can pull of their AoF, which is a definite plus. They're also easier to initiate now that they just use the unit's leadership value.
ClockworkZion wrote: I'm sorry, I forgot the part where they gave us back two of the characters they took from us going from 2nd to 3rd and throwing in some models to support them.
You're just wrong. Since 3rd edition, we have gained one unit and lost 1 character (non SC).
And even if you want to claim new options were put in (and news flash; they aren't "new" if they're from an older codex, they're just being put back in after being ripped out in the first place), we lost a LOT of options going from 3rd to 5th. And then 5th to 6th we lost an HQ choice, lost one of our character models (Seraphim Superior), Acts of Faith got WORSE, Repentia got so bad that even I won't use them and generally the whole army looks like it was dragged by its hair into an ally and horribly beaten with a baseball bat. And then given a half-hearted apology in the way of dropping points on the Exorcist.
Check my above break down. AoF got better than they were in any edition except 3.5 Chapter Approved in 5th/6th. Repentia have never been good. Just because you don't like the list, doesn't mean it is bad.
I'd say that that's debatable. They scale now with the army's size now, so every unit can pull of their AoF, which is a definite plus. They're also easier to initiate now that they just use the unit's leadership value.
One use only unless you spend points on a Simulacrum which can be sniped is not "better", scaling or not. Oh, and you want a 3rd use? Take this special character for a third use of your ability.
And the abilities didn't get better (arguably Repentia may have, but they lost their standard FnP so they can't even make it INTO combat), they stayed mostly the same or got worse, which doesn't justify the nerf to how many times they can use their abilities. They weren't exactly a top table army with the ability to use them as many times as they wanted afterall.
ClockworkZion wrote: I'm sorry, I forgot the part where they gave us back two of the characters they took from us going from 2nd to 3rd and throwing in some models to support them.
You're just wrong. Since 3rd edition, we have gained one unit and lost 1 character (non SC).
*snip*
All made of old models we've had for how long again? And some of the "gains" we made being the return of stuff they took out of older codexes, but then brought back using the same exact models they did before? We never "gained" anything, after 3rd. They shuffled things around, and returned stuff they "borrowed" from us.
And even though I don't play Inq, I still count them for C:WH. Why? Because they were in the book. Not counting them is just like putting makeup on a black eye: it's only covering up what really happened.
And even if you want to claim new options were put in (and news flash; they aren't "new" if they're from an older codex, they're just being put back in after being ripped out in the first place), we lost a LOT of options going from 3rd to 5th. And then 5th to 6th we lost an HQ choice, lost one of our character models (Seraphim Superior), Acts of Faith got WORSE, Repentia got so bad that even I won't use them and generally the whole army looks like it was dragged by its hair into an ally and horribly beaten with a baseball bat. And then given a half-hearted apology in the way of dropping points on the Exorcist.
Check my above break down. AoF got better than they were in any edition except 3.5 Chapter Approved in 5th/6th. Repentia have never been good. Just because you don't like the list, doesn't mean it is bad.
Repentia weren't GREAT but they were PLAYABLE before 6th ed's "update".
And seeing as we went from 3.5's system (which you admit was good) to 5th's system it didn't get better, it got worse. 6th took 5th's system, reduced the number of times you can use the abilities while other armies (Marines/Guard) either get "always on" effects that do the same thing, or have an unlimited number of uses for rules that are frankly overall more powerful than the ones we get to use ONCE.
I'd say that that's debatable. They scale now with the army's size now, so every unit can pull of their AoF, which is a definite plus. They're also easier to initiate now that they just use the unit's leadership value.
One use only unless you spend points on a Simulacrum which can be sniped is not "better", scaling or not. Oh, and you want a 3rd use? Take this special character for a third use of your ability.
And the abilities didn't get better (arguably Repentia may have, but they lost their standard FnP so they can't even make it INTO combat), they stayed mostly the same or got worse, which doesn't justify the nerf to how many times they can use their abilities. They weren't exactly a top table army with the ability to use them as many times as they wanted afterall.
We're talking about faith.
You just continue to rail against this without understanding the army or the mechanic.
2nd Edition Codex - Roll on a table to get a game based buff. Bonuses depending on which characters are attached. 3rd Edition Black Book - No Faith 3rd Edition C:CA - Faith based on # of faithful characters + seraphim squads. Martyrdom. 4 Faith Acts (Martyr, Guidance, Light, Passion), Leadership check, either player's turn. 3rd Edition C:WH - Faith based on # of faithful characters + faithful squads. Martyrdom. 5 Faith Acts (Martyr, Guidance, Light, Passion, Hand). Unit size (high/low) test, either player's turn. 5th Edition WD - Roll faith per turn. Modified 5+ roll (down to 2+). 8 Unit specific Faith acts (Passion, Crusade, Light, Martyr, Hand, Fusillade, Deliverance, Guidance). SOB's turn only. 6th Edition AS - Once per game (without wargear). Ld roll. 8 Unit specific Faith acts (Passion, Crusade, Light, Martyr, Hand, Fusillade, Deliverance, Guidance). SOB's turn only.
Faith went from a one time thing in second to the best iteration in C:CA to worse in C:WH (High low was a bad mechanic) to not-scalable in 5th but very powerful for some units to scalable and very powerful in 6th. Again, just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad.
All made of old models we've had for how long again? And some of the "gains" we made being the return of stuff they took out of older codexes, but then brought back using the same exact models they did before? We never "gained" anything, after 3rd. They shuffled things around, and returned stuff they "borrowed" from us.
Bullgak. Read the details and tell me we didn't get new units. I wrote it down for you, you just have to click the spoilers.
And even though I don't play Inq, I still count them for C:WH. Why? Because they were in the book. Not counting them is just like putting makeup on a black eye: it's only covering up what really happened.p
No, because those same units were available as allies, we didn't lose anything. They got shoe-horned into our codex for no reason in 3rd.
Repentia weren't GREAT but they were PLAYABLE before 6th ed's "update".
Repentia have never been playable in a serious list.
And seeing as we went from 3.5's system (which you admit was good) to 5th's system it didn't get better, it got worse. 6th took 5th's system, reduced the number of times you can use the abilities while other armies (Marines/Guard) either get "always on" effects that do the same thing, or have an unlimited number of uses for rules that are frankly overall more powerful than the ones we get to use ONCE.
No, I said C:CA had the good system. I didn't like 3.5's system. 5th's system was more powerful than 3.5's (except for the invincible canoness) and 6th's just made it scale. Also, getting one good faith act off reliably is better than trying to get 2 off unreliably.
How many games have you actually played with SOB in 5th/6th? (Heck, 3rd/3.5/4th as well).
I'd say that that's debatable. They scale now with the army's size now, so every unit can pull of their AoF, which is a definite plus. They're also easier to initiate now that they just use the unit's leadership value.
One use only unless you spend points on a Simulacrum which can be sniped is not "better", scaling or not. Oh, and you want a 3rd use? Take this special character for a third use of your ability.
And the abilities didn't get better (arguably Repentia may have, but they lost their standard FnP so they can't even make it INTO combat), they stayed mostly the same or got worse, which doesn't justify the nerf to how many times they can use their abilities. They weren't exactly a top table army with the ability to use them as many times as they wanted afterall.
Keep moving the goalpost. We're talking about faith.
I never moved the goal posts. I knew what I meant from the beginning. Just because you assumed I meant something different doesn't make you "correct" about my issues with the Acts of Faith system as it is now.
pretre wrote: You just continue to rail against this without understanding the army or the mechanic.
2nd Edition Codex - Roll on a table to get a game based buff. Bonuses depending on which characters are attached.
3rd Edition Black Book - No Faith
3rd Edition C:CA - Faith based on # of faithful characters + seraphim squads. Martyrdom. 4 Faith Acts (Martyr, Guidance, Light, Passion), Leadership check, either player's turn.
3rd Edition C:WH - Faith based on # of faithful characters + faithful squads. Martyrdom. 5 Faith Acts (Martyr, Guidance, Light, Passion, Hand). Unit size (high/low) test, either player's turn.
5th Edition WD - Roll faith per turn. Modified 5+ roll (down to 2+). 8 Unit specific Faith acts (Passion, Crusade, Light, Martyr, Hand, Fusillade, Deliverance, Guidance). SOB's turn only.
6th Edition AS - Once per game (without wargear). Ld roll. 8 Unit specific Faith acts (Passion, Crusade, Light, Martyr, Hand, Fusillade, Deliverance, Guidance). SOB's turn only.
Oh I understand the mechanic and the army just fine. You just assume far too much and then act like it's my fault.
Even if the powers got "better" (and "better" is subjective so don't even start acting like you have some kind of superior position here) the SYSTEM got worse. And it's the SYSTEM as a WHOLE that I am unhappy about.
pretre wrote: Faith went from a one time thing in second to the best iteration in C:CA to worse in C:WH (High low was a bad mechanic) to not-scalable in 5th but at very powerful for some units to scalable and very powerful in 6th. Again, just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad.
And just because you read my posts don't assume you know my position on things because you already proved you don't. I was speaking about the entire Acts of Faith SYSTEM not the individual components.
All made of old models we've had for how long again? And some of the "gains" we made being the return of stuff they took out of older codexes, but then brought back using the same exact models they did before? We never "gained" anything, after 3rd. They shuffled things around, and returned stuff they "borrowed" from us.
Bullgak. Read the details and tell me we didn't get new units. I wrote it down for you, you just have to click the spoilers.
I looked and I'm calling bs on your revisionist BS. You don't count half the units in a codex as being a loss when they were taken away. I'm pretty sure players who played the mixed lists would disagree with you.
Own up already, GW hasn't put anything that we haven't had before in some form or fashion in since 3rd. Even the Battle Conclave is them just moving models from one set of options to a different option.
And even though I don't play Inq, I still count them for C:WH. Why? Because they were in the book. Not counting them is just like putting makeup on a black eye: it's only covering up what really happened.p
No, because those same units were available as allies, we didn't lose anything. They got shoe-horned into our codex for no reason in 3rd.
bs. Those units stopped existing in 5th, and didn't show back up as allies options until THIS YEAR. Take the fething make up off the black eye and stop sugar coating it when GW has screwed the army.
Repentia weren't GREAT but they were PLAYABLE before 6th ed's "update".
Repentia have never been playable in a serious list.
Someone never used Grand Theft Rhino in 5th. It's all anecdotal but I've damn near tabled armies that the internet said were FAR better (Space Wolves and Blood Angels) during their peak because of Repentia. Even in 6th before the update they were a decent defensive unit because they got their FnP against a wider range of things. Now all they have is a 6++ and a one use only 3+ FnP that will never get used because they're dead before they get anywhere.
Just because you never could use them well, or never had luck with a unit doesn't make it "bad". It just means in never fit how you played, or you didn't see the combos that made them effective.
And seeing as we went from 3.5's system (which you admit was good) to 5th's system it didn't get better, it got worse. 6th took 5th's system, reduced the number of times you can use the abilities while other armies (Marines/Guard) either get "always on" effects that do the same thing, or have an unlimited number of uses for rules that are frankly overall more powerful than the ones we get to use ONCE.
No, I said C:CA had the good system. I didn't like 3.5's system. 5th's system was more powerful than 3.5's (except for the invincible canoness) and 6th's just made it scale. Also, getting one good faith act off reliably is better than trying to get 2 off unreliably.
How many games have you actually played with SOB in 5th/6th?
5th? I played Sisters almost weekly with at least a game a week (and 3-4 games on tournament days) from around October 2010 to the end of 5th Edition. I used both C:WH and CA C:SoB. In 6th I played them regularly until they got that codex update. Since then the last time they say the table was in a came of Apoc. So yeah, my army used to see a lot of time on the table. I used to make regular purchases to expand and build on it too. So yeah, I actually play the fething game and know how the army actually plays on the table pretty damn well.
And frankly as it stands the army doesn't play well. It has one monobuild it's had since 3rd (if you went pure Sisters) that can't compete effectively with most armies these days. It's no a good army anymore, it's a trainwreck. Games with them aren't about trying to win, it's seeing how long you can go before you get tabled.
No sense in arguing so much about what was and wasn't.
Here's just hoping GW actually just updates the model range and gives Sisters of Battle a proper hardback codex with all sorts of neat fluff, characters, paint jobs, models, conversions, etc.
They could be done pretty easily, in my opinion. There would be a box for Seraphim and something else, a box for Dominions and Celestians (yes, they could put heavy and special weapons all in one kit, they did it for Wraithguard/blades) and a box for the basic troop with something else.
Then, a plastic Cannoness, a new Exorcist/Immolator, and a Penitent Engine, all of which could be dual-kits with other things.
Haven't the Bretonnians had most of their non-plastic stock (that is, almost their entire range) Out of Stock for almost a year now though? I know they're due an update, but that was a long time.
It seems more likely to the cynical side of me that they just ran out of stock and - due to GW moving away from metal - aren't bothering to produce any more.
On the other hand, giving them their own updated section on the store and a new 'dex so recently is promising.
Arbitrator wrote: Haven't the Bretonnians had most of their non-plastic stock (that is, almost their entire range) Out of Stock for almost a year now though? I know they're due an update, but that was a long time.
It seems more likely to the cynical side of me that they just ran out of stock and - due to GW moving away from metal - aren't bothering to produce any more.
On the other hand, giving them their own updated section on the store and a new 'dex so recently is promising.
It really just seems like a matter of waiting. That's how it's always been with Sisters of Battle, and hopefully, eventually, the products we'd love to throw money at will get here.
I don't think they'll squat Sisters of Battle. They're just too cool.
I actually found repentia decent back when they had their feel no pain, as I could make a cover save followed by a feel no pain save to allow them survive shooting. There was also the fact that they could steal rhinos from other sisters. Yes they weren't the best unit but you could actually do stuff with them and have fun. Now they just die (unless you give them a land raider).
On another topic, GW has been making lots of female models for fantasy. In fact calling lots them sisters, such sisters of slaughter, witch elves, sisters of avelorn and sisters of the thorn. Not to menition all the characters as well. Perhaps GW are using what they have learned from these models to make plastic sisters.
I would buy some sisters just to support the line. I have all the other factions . And somewhere around 15,000 points of IG. I would like to start another Imperial faction. Sister might be fun.
Something I spotted in the Dark Millennium book (new artwork):
Priests and Seraphim fighting Chaos (with tentacles in the background). I'm willing to guess that it may show up in the eventual update for the Sisters.
And I gave the few shots of Sisters models in the picture book they included, and no, I didn't see a single model that looked new to me there. So if there are new models they're playing that close to the chest.
I'm not really playing any tabletop games right now but I'd purchase some plastic sisters (provided I liked the new models). But I have to agree that lack of availability on GW's site doesn't necessarily equate to imminent release.
By the way, here's a question: Since the Sisters of Battle are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy, what's the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus? Is there one?
Rostere wrote: I just hope the new SoB model range won't be overly sexualized.
Considering the WH:F releases, I don't think that's much of a problem. Dark Elves are always light when it comes to clothing, but the high elves and wood elves females look very nice.
Besides, 40k isn't a good universe for the sisters of battle to suddenly start wearing chain mail bikinis or striking pin-up poses. I honestly like cheesecake, but 40K's SoB are way too cool for that and I don't think GW is that crazy yet
In the sense that each breast has it's own pocket, yes. Something more like Mass Effect's female armour (which shows a female figure and even a bit of the shape of the bust but doesn't go full on boob pockets) would be better if they feel the need to keep the boob shape.
Though I wouldn't mourn its loss, as long as it was swapped out for something that also fitted that Sob aesthetic. As I've said before, an ornate, knightly chestplate would work.
Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
schadenfreude wrote: Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
Username relevant.
Automatically Appended Next Post: OT though, certain kits in the IG section went OOS before the AM update had them restocked. Not sure if this is the case, as Orks are on tab sometime this month. I guess June's release might be AS?
ace101 wrote: certain kits in the IG section went OOS before the AM update had them restocked. Not sure if this is the case, as Orks are on tab sometime this month or next.
Well, nah. If plastic Sisters were that imminent we'd probably already have heard about it via rumours by now. Also note that GW was happy to leave the Brets with several missing models for quite some time, so there's a chance that this won't spur them on all that much.
Though it does give us an excuse to send lots of emails asking what's up. Might get an interesting response.
schadenfreude wrote: Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
Yeah the box will make 4 Sister of Battle casualty markers and a single regular Sister.
schadenfreude wrote: Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
I would certainly welcome the 20%-50% cost reduction
schadenfreude wrote: Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
I would certainly welcome the 20%-50% cost reduction
The 3 pack blister of bolt gun sisters was way under $7/model.
Guessing the new kit will have 1 of each heavy/special weapon option. Maybe they will make it a 10 sister kit for $60 with 1 of every heavy special weapon instead, but my bet is still on 5 for $35.
And a 2nd kit of Seraphim that's $50 for 5.
Sister players love being martyrs, and the blood of their wallets is good for GW's bottom line.
Well, the total lack of any type of FAQ about Adeptas Sororitas in this new edition (the only exception in all codex, mini codex and suplements of it) made me think "gosh, GW squated the sisters!!!". Now, with the line getting out of the shelves, very silently indeed, im almost sure of it...
Almost, because i really hope im wrong... I really want this to be a revamp, maybe a "big surprise" before, or after the orkz...
schadenfreude wrote: Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
I would certainly welcome the 20%-50% cost reduction
The 3 pack blister of bolt gun sisters was way under $7/model.
Guessing the new kit will have 1 of each heavy/special weapon option. Maybe they will make it a 10 sister kit for $60 with 1 of every heavy special weapon instead, but my bet is still on 5 for $35.
And a 2nd kit of Seraphim that's $50 for 5.
Sister players love being martyrs, and the blood of their wallets is good for GW's bottom line.
No way... the 10 BSS pack is $8 a model. The individual special weapons were $12-14. Having bits that would allow one model to become a special weapons model or a regular can only knock that price down even if the resulting price is still way higher than other armies.
SoB are too ingrained in the fluff to be dropped, this says imminent (as in in the next year) release to me.
Even GW wouldn't want to have to hear thousands (seriously what 20-30 max?) of SoB girlyboys gnashing their teeth for ever more on the web. Hang on that would be no change from now? .
I keed, I keed.
Jes Goodwin isn't going to let a range that he likes so much die off. I don't think even GW are daft enough to piss him off. I figure they've finally crack the moving hair aesthetic vs. plastic kit thing he had talked about.
Baroque S&M Space Nuns (with helmets/no hair) here we come!
I did hear rumours some time ago (we're talking about 7-8 years ago, when I worked in a store) that GW had been very close to re-directing a hive fleet to consume the Dark Eldar. This was before they decided to get behind Jes Goodwin et al for that stunning re-launch, after many years in the duldrums for that force.
This was my forum avatar for the best part of 10 years, before I gave up waiting for another force that was similar in that there were a group of fans waiting for a return:
My impression is that the GW of 2014 is far more likely to retire a race/faction than the GW of the late 90's. They won't overtly have them eaten by Tyranids any more and say "tough, lol, get with the program", instead it will be allowed to quietly wilt in the background while the work experience boy knocks together new codex download rules every couple of years for as long as the moulds last.
I hope for the sake of the SoB fans that I'm 100% wrong, and another Jes Goodwin masterpiece is in the works, but I'm warning that there is a precedent for this kind of thing.
schadenfreude wrote: Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
I would certainly welcome the 20%-50% cost reduction
Are you insane? Everyone knows that things with boobs cost more. Now, imagine an army that is 95% boobs! That $35 US for five Sisters is probably going to be spot on, and not for their specialty units but for just the basic Sisters. Yes, that second kidney is going to be looking rather expendable.
I am with you I would start buying some sisters of battle asap if they had some plastic kits. I could see them being a super anti psyker army which right now seems to be much needed in this edition.
Claimh_Solais wrote: I have lost hope longe time ago ..
worst case the will only make new modells of the old ones in finecast :(
If ...IF sisters only could get a update like Dark eldar ..
I whold buy 3000p army easy
I think GW hasn't been releasing Finecast models lately, have they? I think it's been all plastics.
I have a few squads, not a big army, and an update like the Dark Eldar would get to buy a lot of stuff. Not one big instabuy because I can't afford it, but several small ones, no doubt.
Yep, finecast is on the way out. I think there was one model that was finecast that got released recently... in Wood Elves or something? I can't remember.
Anyway. I disagree that GW is MORE likely to drop an army. I think they're much less likely. GW is more global now than they've ever been, and the players are very readily connected through the internet. They'd get a ton of flak for dropping any army, be it Sisters or Bretonnians or what have you.
The flip side of that coin is that they'd generate IMMENSE goodwill from the playerbase for re-introducing an army that's not Space Marines (yes, there will be those that will complain it's MORE Imperium), especially an army that's just plainly different. An army without access to plasma, where most of their weapons are bolters, melta, and flamers, and their rules and stats just act differently than other armies.. that's a different playstyle, and it'll go a long way to creating more diversity in the gaming community. If nothing else, GW seems to be ALL about 'options' these days.
Now, there's a few ways that they could do the Sisters of Battle, and all of them would be better than the current digital codex, and all of them require releasing plastic kits.
The first is to combine Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle. Since Grey Knights have their own loyal following, and SoB have been relegated as 'Adeptas Sororitas' I really don't see this happening at all.
The second is to release a small, specialized codex akin to Militarum Tempestus. It'd be limited, based around a single box of Sisters of Battle troops that would have a few heavy weapons and head swaps to make everything from Retributors to Celestians to Dominion squads to regular battle squads, but it'd all be in one box. They could then release a Cannoness and call it a day. SoB players are happy, Imperium players are happy, everyone's happy. People will complain about them not getting a 'full proper codex' but at least we'll have plastic Sisters of Battle.
The final option is what we're hoping for, which is a full revamp like the Dark Eldar got. Tons of new kits to replace almost everything from the past. I imagine the Penitent Engine will be released bigger than ever, Sisters of Battle will be in a box that will make most options, a Seraphim box will be released as a dual kit that will make something else, and a plastic Cannoness will be released as well, with few other special characters, and maybe they'll get a flier as well.
----
As a final point, the main problem with the boobcups isn't one of aesthetic, it's one of practicality. If you get hit in the chest by anything, all of the pressure from the breastplate will be focused on the sternum. The sternum will crack (it's really not that tough after all) and your lungs and heart will be punctured by your now-floating ribs. If the armor is more evenly distributed, it more evenly distributes the force of impacts across the whole ribcage, preventing shattering bone and other internal damage.
But, this is the far future, and maybe power-boob-armor has special redundancies built in.
schadenfreude wrote: Going to call it now. Plastic sisters will be everything the player base is asking for and more, lots of options, lots of bits, but will probably be the same price as scions. $35US for 5 models.
I would certainly welcome the 20%-50% cost reduction
Are you insane? Everyone knows that things with boobs cost more. Now, imagine an army that is 95% boobs! That $35 US for five Sisters is probably going to be spot on, and not for their specialty units but for just the basic Sisters. Yes, that second kidney is going to be looking rather expendable.
New plastic repentia $35 for 5 for maximum boob exposure.
Maximum squad size increased to 20 and they suddenly become abusive as hell with invisibility.
Awwwwyea it's a $140 unit most AS players don't have.
Pacific wrote: My impression is that the GW of 2014 is far more likely to retire a race/faction than the GW of the late 90's.
I dunno... My impression recenently has been that GW is doubling down on product production. We got the Imperial Knights out of nowhere, they've kept up the steady stream of releases, and even gave the Chaos Space Marines new models without a proper codex update. To me, it seems like they're more about expanding rather than cutting back.
drbored wrote: The first is to combine Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle. Since Grey Knights have their own loyal following, and SoB have been relegated as 'Adeptas Sororitas' I really don't see this happening at all.
More than that, I don't really see those two fitting together at all. They're very distinct organisations within the fluff, and are pretty different in terms of playstyle. This would make as much sense as combining the IG and SM, really. Doubt that it's even on the table at GW.
drbored wrote: As a final point, the main problem with the boobcups isn't one of aesthetic, it's one of practicality. If you get hit in the chest by anything, all of the pressure from the breastplate will be focused on the sternum. The sternum will crack (it's really not that tough after all) and your lungs and heart will be punctured by your now-floating ribs. If the armor is more evenly distributed, it more evenly distributes the force of impacts across the whole ribcage, preventing shattering bone and other internal damage.
That's a very valid criticism of boobplate armour, but this is 40K. It is a fictional setting, and it's all about big, over the top appearences. The Sisters are exemplars of this, also being the proud owners of a pipe organ tank and a flaming helmet. Their "boobpalte" armour plays to their gothic aesthetic. Though, again, I wouldn't mind it being swapped out for something that was equally fitting to that aesthetic.
I noticed a few things out of stock a few weeks back but figured they'd just depleted their metal stocks. Now I'm torn between the happiness plastics would bring and the fact that I've spent quite a bit of time creating resin multi-part power armoured nuns. I got sick of waiting for multipart sisters (after falling in love with the metals in the first WD I ever bought back in September 1998!).
They're literally in the casting workshop today. I may need a cup of tea and a sit down. Or a stiff drink.
Talizvar wrote: I am a bit... apprehensive of what new sculpts would look like.
Place your bets on "body glove" with bits of armor tacked on and occasional metal bikini design?
Low cuts and any heels would be that extra special.
Extra bonus points if they outfit them with kilts...
(what am I saying? no giving them ideas)
Nah. They've got more class than that. GW has released other female models, female Eldar and Dark Eldar, and plenty of females in the Fantasy range, and none of them are beyond what you would expect given the particular model's lore. The Dark Eldar and Dark Elf Wyches are pretty risque, but that fits their theme and style. Eldar, Wood Elf, and High Elf females are modest, though they are clearly female figures.
I wouldn't doubt that females in thicker armor intimidate the GW design team, since it's something they really haven't done a whole lot of. I bet it'll come out to a style that will satisfy everyone involved though, without being overtly sexualized.
SoB are in the 7th ed book, GW is more than happy to release mini-dexes, Imperial factions are Battle Brothers, and the allied mechanic allows including small factions into bigger armies. Additionally, psykers and daemons are more prominent in 7th, and Sisters act against those two mechanics.
I'd say there would be good basis for SoB to appear sooner or later, but of course, this is GW we're talking about..
prowla wrote: Additionally, psykers and daemons are more prominent in 7th, and Sisters act against those two mechanics.
Hum, no they do not. Grey Knight are good against daemons, and Sisters only resist very slightly better than the average person to psychic powers due to their high willpower. Culexus and blanks and Sisters of Silence and stuff are good against psykers.
Well, on my side, the only kits not available are the Dominion and Retributor squad. I just e-mailed GW about those kits, and they said this about the Dominion:
"Thank you for writing into us! The Dominion Squad collection is not available as a single click item, because the Battle Sister with Storm Bolter 1 is no longer available. All of the other items from the Dominion Squad are available and can be added individually to an order and they will be the same price as if you had added the Dominion Squad collection to your cart."
Similarly, the Retributor squad is no longer available because the Sisters of Battle Superior with Power Maul is no longer available. I will inquire about those two models, but otherwise I think it's literally just those two models that are no longer available.
That's not a lot. Not the kind of movement we would normally expect before a new release. It could just be an old mold finally crapped out and they couldn't justify replacing it, which makes sense if they're phasing out metal...
notprop wrote: Squats were, lets he honest and I say this as a fan of the RT Squat range, a creative deadend. Literally Dwarves in Space.
The only thing that made them differant was their warmachines in Epic and that's well covered these days with big kits for other factions.
SoB have their niche and aesthetic set out which is entirely their own so I'm not seeing the same lack of expansion room that Squats had.
My point was that it's not unheard of for things to disappear, which I thought was a poignant remark to make considering the number of people posting as though a stunning new range of plastics is almost a given.
I won't get into a discussion about which has the most aesthetic appeal and room to carve out a niche in the background, as it would be so one-sided
Pacific wrote: My impression is that the GW of 2014 is far more likely to retire a race/faction than the GW of the late 90's.
I dunno... My impression recenently has been that GW is doubling down on product production. We got the Imperial Knights out of nowhere, they've kept up the steady stream of releases, and even gave the Chaos Space Marines new models without a proper codex update. To me, it seems like they're more about expanding rather than cutting back.
It depends how much effort is likely to go into a release - a plastic kit or two plus aforementioned half-arsed codex release, versus an entire new range to cover the numerous spots.
TBH I don't even know why I am commenting in this thread. Anyway, I had a chance to have a quick moan about the Squat disappearance which was perhaps why - I'll go now!
Sisters are always being rumoured to be at the end of the next set if codecies. Many of those in production are those released in 1998, they've had many opportunities to do something and chosen to do Space Marines again, GW just don't seem interested to me and optimism will end in disappointment.
When I said it was nonsense, I did indeed mean from a practical standpoint. I think the boobplate should be swapped out for something that's still clearly female but not so ridiculously impractical (generally, a singular chestplate instead, I'd imagine). That said, IMHO it doesn't fit with their aesthetic either because it's too form-fitting (or implied to be, whether or not the sister inside the armour is more flatchested than the armour would indicate) compared to the rest of the armour, IMHO. It just looks OFF to me. IMHO it looks hideous in part because it DOESN"T fit in with the rest of the power armour, which while more form-fitting than Space Marine armour, is still pretty bulky (at least in the models. It varies in the artwork) and thus just looks WRONG with actual boobs on it in my opinion, of whicht he only reason I can think of it being there is an attempt to sexualize the sisters which just comes off as FAIL to me because of how much it falls into the uncanny valley.
The main question being whether or not it's too late for GW to do such a potentially drastic aesthetic change to them.
Not-Dark Eldar/Slaaneshi repentia, penitant engines, and mistresses with whips kinda fall into that same field but at least they're both grimdark and catholic dark ages, so that fits (a lot, even). The boob plate has no excuse.
teban wrote: I believe that the boob plate is quite an important aspect for them - so that it is clear that it is women under armor.
Remember that no "man" shall bear arms under the ecclesiarchy. And to be honest, its pretty gothic and grim.
The fluff never actually stated or implied that, though. That's just something some fans came up with. If the fluff explicitly stated that, then I'd take it as a bit more established at least (but still IMHO nonsense), but... it doesn't. Possibly because it's just as easy (even easier in some cases) for a man to wear armour with a two-boob plate as it is for a female to wear it anyways.
Besides, I'm sure both the sisters and the inquisition would go ape-gak over the Ecclesiarchy trying to have an army of men by disguising them as sisters and only the most moronic ecclesiarch would try it (not that the sisters are directly connected to the Ecclesiarchy enough for an Ecclesiarch to pull it off, anyways, nor does the way sisters are raised and trained allow such a possibility)
There are other ways to make something feminine than a boob plate. A two-boob plate on a fighting force we're supposed to take seriously just shows an ugly lack of creativity.
They're mentioned in the 7th edition codex and continue to pop up in many novels and fluff pieces, even ones where they aren't the stars. The idea of them being squatted is ludicrous, especially in a day and age when the Legion of the Damned, Knights, and even friggin' STORMTROOPERS get their own codex.
pretre wrote: Can we leave the boob plate meanderings for another thread? Not that I think this one will last long anyways.
Yep. We've picked apart the initial rumor (only one or two models are actually no longer available, not the litany originally stated), we've wishlisted, we've speculated, we talked about the printing issues and GW design team's promises, and now we're talking about boob plate.
The Adepta Sororitas thread cycle has reached the end of its life cycle, where we all go home and play with our main armies while wishing we had a fully plastic babe army to paint with some TLC.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: and Sisters only resist very slightly better than the average person to psychic powers due to their high willpower.
Sisters do hunt witches, though. I think that that aspect of them could be played up a tad to make them a viable anti-psyker force.
TiamatRoar wrote: When I said it was nonsense, I did indeed mean from a practical standpoint. I think the boobplate should be swapped out for something that's still clearly female but not so ridiculously impractical (generally, a singular chestplate instead, I'd imagine). That said, IMHO it doesn't fit with their aesthetic either because it's too form-fitting (or implied to be, whether or not the sister inside the armour is more flatchested than the armour would indicate) compared to the rest of the armour, IMHO. It just looks OFF to me. IMHO it looks hideous in part because it DOESN"T fit in with the rest of the power armour, which while more form-fitting than Space Marine armour, is still pretty bulky (at least in the models. It varies in the artwork) and thus just looks WRONG with actual boobs on it in my opinion, of whicht he only reason I can think of it being there is an attempt to sexualize the sisters which just comes off as FAIL to me because of how much it falls into the uncanny valley.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how well it fits their aesthetic, but I will add that I don't think that any replacement would still have to be all that female looking. IMO, the most important aspect of the Sisters is that they are zealous soldiers of the church, not their gender. A chestplate would work as well as a corset for keeping to this theme, in my view.
TiamatRoar wrote: The main question being whether or not it's too late for GW to do such a potentially drastic aesthetic change to them.
Probably. GW seems to be fairly committed to it, with their newer artworks of the SoB keeping right to it.
Aside from that, I think that it's doubtful that GW even wants to change the look of the SoB all that much. While some fans do take issues with the boobplate, I haven't really seen any evidence that GW shares those critcisms. I'm going to go ahead and predict that any new SoB minis won't be radically different in terms of their aesthetics.
Puscifer wrote: I'm completely drawing blanks as to why the range isn't available.
Moulds are wearing out, GW is moving away from metal.
TiamatRoar wrote: They're mentioned in the 7th edition codex and continue to pop up in many novels and fluff pieces, even ones where they aren't the stars. The idea of them being squatted is ludicrous, especially in a day and age when the Legion of the Damned, Knights, and even friggin' STORMTROOPERS get their own codex.
The idea of the Sisters being squatted is actually kind of funny anyway. Half of the Major Orders are based on Terra. Can't really send a Hive Fleet there.
But yeah, as I've said, GW is all about expanding things right now. The Sisters may well be safer than ever, dwindling models aside.
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drbored wrote: The Adepta Sororitas thread cycle has reached the end of its life cycle, where we all go home and play with our main armies while wishing we had a fully plastic babe army to paint with some TLC.
That was during 3rd edition. Now they are not that linked with the Ordo Hereticus anymore. They mostly protect priests and relics, fight heretics and especially those that are former member of the Ecclesiarchy. Those very rarely happen to be psykers.
No need to flanderize them into some anti-psyker strike force.
drbored wrote: The Adepta Sororitas thread cycle has reached the end of its life cycle, where we all go home and play with our main armies while wishing we had a fully plastic babe army to paint with some TLC.
B-but... The Sisters are my main army!
Sisters used to be my only army. Now, they are my only army for that game I hardly ever play . For some unknown reason though, I keep focusing on them for my internet ramblings.
Boob plates do less than nothing because they redirect blunt force impact from the breast into the sternum and the heart. They are more of a hazard to the wearer than they are any protection.
As far as the looks my guess is they would look like the most recent artwork with plenty of head and helmet options. I would be surprised if a veil or habit wasn't one of the options.
I'm confident we'll see an update for SoB at some point, along with a physical Codex and plenty of new models, as there's certainly enough interest for them. It's just a matter of when. Previously, I think they were right on the bottom of the priority list, but it looks like they may be getting somewhere.
What I'm suggesting isn't really "flanderization", just a small tweak to help the Sisters hold their own in an edition which has emphasised psykers more.
We already have the condemnor boltgun, just sprinkle in a few more things in that vein and maybe buff the SoB resistance to psykers. Not major changes.
Aren't they still quite outmatched against psykers? From what I've read, adamantium will doesn't help all that much. Unless I've misunderstood something?
Troike wrote: Aren't they still quite outmatched against psykers? From what I've read, adamantium will doesn't help all that much. Unless I've misunderstood something?
Adamantium Will is good against non Blessing/Conjugation powers. But the point was what other rule COULD be added to the army? They don't have Psykers, who are the better anti-Psychic defense, so what's left?
Troike wrote: Aren't they still quite outmatched against psykers? From what I've read, adamantium will doesn't help all that much. Unless I've misunderstood something?
They are, because of GW usual notion of balancing. Adamantium Will is only useful against powers that target an enemy unit (which is fluffy). The best powers are blessings (because they allow for stupid broken combos) and invocations. Beside, having a level 1 psyker does just as much as Adamantium Will.
We'll all die of old age before they release those... sooner to see a revamp by GW!
What are you talking about, the pledge manager has been online for about a week now where you can select the stuff you want from your kickstarter funds. We should see most if not all models released before the end of the year. That's about the same number of models made in 1 year that GW puts out and from a company with less than 20 employees.
Heck they even threw in the "Not Arco-Flagellants" that weren't unlocked in the kickstarter but almost were so they added them as well
This is purely speculation, but given the recent emphasis on producing 'trademarkable' items (Astra Militarium/Tempestus Scions), it seems like the Adeptas Sororitas were already ahead of this curve in some ways.
GW might put out some Schola Progenium Codex which includes the Stormtroopers, Commissars, and Sisters, and then put out a limited edition Codex which expands on the sisters with more units and vehicles?
Alternatively, given the artwork featured, maybe Frateris Militia might make an appearance (kind of like "Loyal Cultists") and priests?
As much as I like the Sisters of Battle, I don't see GW neglecting them this long only to splurge on a big release of stuff for them. On the other hand, releasing new models for them in dribs and drabs across three or four hardcover books, I could see.
Put basic sisters, militia, and priests in one book (Codex Ecclesiarchy) Put SOB characters, some elites and some vehicles in another focused SOB book (Adeptas Sororitas). Put some special characters and very specialized units (seraphim, repentia, maybe) in another book with some priestly special characters and some Inquisitorial special characters and call it the "Defenders of the Faith" or something.
Only 3 hardcover books necessary to field your SOB army! Great News!
Mr Morden wrote: Now if every unit with Adamantium Will added 1 dice to your "dispel" pool - now that would be fun
That would be less fluffy, and that would not make dispel efficient either against WC3 powers. Remember, you need to roll 3 to dispel those. How many dice will you need to do that at least semi-reliably?
I don't see GW updating them any time soon. There hasn't been a single visible hint of GW caring about SOB. It's been over a decade since the last SOB model came out and all we have is a digital only dex that didn't add anything. I don't think they'll be squatted, I think they'll just keep them going with the most minimum of effort as they have been doing.
Da Butcha wrote: GW might put out some Schola Progenium Codex which includes the Stormtroopers, Commissars, and Sisters, and then put out a limited edition Codex which expands on the sisters with more units and vehicles?
Very much doubt that. GW did just release the "Stormtroopers and Commissars" codex, they seem to want them as their own thing. And it's not like GW is particularly into condensing their codexes these days anyway.
Da Butcha wrote: Alternatively, given the artwork featured, maybe Frateris Militia might make an appearance (kind of like "Loyal Cultists") and priests?
They would be bloody ideal as a second troops choice.
MWHistorian wrote: There hasn't been a single visible hint of GW caring about SOB.
So you mean no hint outside of what the devs have actually stated I think, because we've heard support from the GW staff before at the Citadel Open, and at Games Days. How long again did Dark Eldar sit unchanged exactly again? Because Sisters have at least seen an attempt to keep their rules current (even if I don't like the current codex, it was an attempt to do something with them instead of leaving them to rot with no codex at all).
Oh and I do have this from an email exchange with Phil Kelly (sorry Phil, but some beans need to be spilled):
I can't tell you too much about this of course, but they do indeed feature in the background stuff we write and the stories we tell – sometimes as major players. I personally make it a mission to make them compelling whenever I write about them. I feel the 41st Millennium needs more female protagonists and by keeping the flame alight there's more chance it will burst into a conflagration at a later date.
So, though I can't do much on the rules side, i'm doing all that I can on the background side
If were talking about sisters getting anti-psyker stuff, then how about a relic that helps out as well and maybe even a special character who serves on blackships which gives psykers a negative to casting or generating dice. For example if you field this special character due to the presence of a black ship all psykers now only generate additional dice on a 4+ or they only pass psychic powers on a 5+ instead of a 4+. I could maybe also see a relic that allows you to steal warp charges from the enemy and add it to your denial pool.
Troike wrote: And it's not like GW is particularly into condensing their codexes these days anyway.
Well, except for Black Templars.
Necrosis wrote: If were talking about sisters getting anti-psyker stuff, then how about a relic that helps out as well and maybe even a special character who serves on blackships which gives psykers a negative to casting or generating dice. For example if you field this special character due to the presence of a black ship all psykers now only generate additional dice on a 4+ or they only pass psychic powers on a 5+ instead of a 4+. I could maybe also see a relic that allows you to steal warp charges from the enemy and add it to your denial pool.
That would be shoehorning a new aspect into the army. If done well, with new and interesting fluff justifying it, why not? But if it is just taking the current background and adding a lot of anti-psyker focus for no reason, it is bad.
BlaxicanX wrote: The boob plate on Sisters is fine because I am a man and I enjoy seeing hot chicks shoot guns.
If you want historical accuracy, go play Bolt Action or something.
I a a man, and I enjoy seeing cool-looking women shoot guns. Not hot women, good-looking women. Cool-looking does not necessary means sexy. Actually, I think most of the time, it does not go well together.
Now if you want hot women miniatures, it is not like there is a shortage of them. Plenty of models all around. Realistic models I could get from historical games. But I would like my Sisters to be cool-looking. I do not personally have a problem with the boob-plate because I think it fits more the baroque crazy bad-taste vulgar display of excessive wealth that the Ecclesiarchy enjoy. But I would be okay with something equally fitting replacing it. As long as it screams “Someone with too much money, not enough sense, and no concern for practicality designed this armor to show off”. I would like my tanks to look like that too, and the exorcist is a nice example of that line of thinking, I think.
TheAuldGrump wrote: I have seen the Boob Monster... there is no unseeing it....
Spoiler:
I find that the pink-haired pinup is more disturbing than the wet nurse. Why? Because the wet nurse is supposed to be disturbing, is disturbing, and therefore looks cool. The pinup is supposed to be attractive, but is about as grotesque as the wet nurse, and therefore looks just plain wrong.
I would say it is just my experience. But maybe there is more to it. Sexiness add a lot of constraint for character design, for instance in term of body type. And poses. It is actually pretty normative.
That would be shoehorning a new aspect into the army. If done well, with new and interesting fluff justifying it, why not? But if it is just taking the current background and adding a lot of anti-psyker focus for no reason, it is bad.
Well I said black ship due to the fact that in the witch hunter codex (yes I know, how dare I speak of that), it said sisters guard black ships and served as wardens. That being said I also think sisters could use a new aspect or two.
I really, really hate it when female warriors are given impractical armour to show off typically female traits, like boob plate for example.
The only reason people are not more upset by this is that they have grown used to it. When we see examples of ridiculous female attire and armour which is overly sexualized just so that the typical miniature gaming consumers can gloat over their bodies, it's shameful and symptomatic of the immature and sexist "boobs or GTFO" attitude which exists in a lot of gamer culture today, and insulting and condescending towards the male gamers who'd rather choose immersion over sexual fantasies. Not to mention the complete suspension of disbelief which occurs when you see male soldiers with armour that could be practical and then women in armour that was obviously created for the male gaze. Ordinary SoBs are great except for the boobplate, while specific units such as the Sisters Repentia are just ridiculous. Female penitent fanatics get to look like they were brought straight from a leather fetish porn movie (with whips and all, and half-exposed breasts!), while male penitent fanatics look like this. Yes, absolutely no subconscious sexism from GWs side there. They are certainly not the worst in this regard, but there's definitely still things to do.
Rostere wrote: When we see examples of ridiculous female attire and armour which is overly sexualized just so that the typical miniature gaming consumers can gloat over their bodies
If someone gloat over the body of Sisters of Battle models… he or she has a really weird fetish. Those with helmets do not show ANY skin, and nobody with common sense would expect those boobplates to be in any way representative of the actual boobs of the women in it.
Rostere wrote: while specific units such as the Sisters Repentia are just ridiculous. Female penitent fanatics get to look like they were brought straight from a leather fetish porn movie (with whips and all, and half-exposed breasts!),
The miniatures are not good. The very idea of the “Mistress of Redemption” is pretty damn terrible. But the artworks are really nice though. They really look like penitent. More nightmare fuel than eye-candy.
I think it's a little narrow to say that the design of the Sisters. both armoured and Repentia, is fuelled wholly by some sexist desire to make them sexually appealing.
They are more than an army of women, they're an army that represents the pinnacle of the zealot soldier in this already over the top setting. So over the top gothic design and total zealotry are to be expected. For me, I think that it is far more important for the Sisters to play to their characterisation first and foremost.
Also, it's worth noting, I doubt that so many accusations of sexism/over-sexualisation would be thrown in were the Repentia men instead. Just because they are female characters doesn't mean that them being dressed skimpily is itself pure sexualisation. In the fluff, they have a very good reason to be looking the way that they do.
We'll all die of old age before they release those... sooner to see a revamp by GW!
What are you talking about, the pledge manager has been online for about a week now where you can select the stuff you want from your kickstarter funds. We should see most if not all models released before the end of the year. That's about the same number of models made in 1 year that GW puts out and from a company with less than 20 employees.
Heck they even threw in the "Not Arco-Flagellants" that weren't unlocked in the kickstarter but almost were so they added them as well
I want Nephrahydra for an Engineseer. If the model is any wear close the concept piece it will be sweet.
While SoB never getting rereleased in finecast points to the strong possibility that they have developed something for the SoB that hasn't necessarily gone into production I don't think there is any implication of an imminent release. The fact SoB products have been withdrawn I think simply has more to do with GW scrapping and selling off metal.
I think its a shame GW hasn't done anything more with SoB, they really deserve something more.
Considering that as with GK, you really only need one kit to make almost every type of unit plus or minus a change in jump packs and/or weapons, I'm really hoping this mean we a plastic sisters box.
Troike wrote: Also, it's worth noting, I doubt that so many accusations of sexism/over-sexualisation would be thrown in were the Repentia men instead.
How many male miniatures have you seen that you would call sexualized? Female miniatures usually have big boobs (because “heroic proportion” ), and on the repentia models, they are prominently displayed, while male miniatures do not even get nipples (and the linked WHFB flagellants are no exception). Now you are right that even if those WHFB flagellants were sexualized (suppose, say, that most of them had nipple rings or butt windows), the reaction would not be the same. At all. That is a byproduct of more than 95% of the player base being male, and more than 99% of the sexualized miniatures being female.
And we all know the only reason we've had it for decades is there have been no new models to change or challenge that asthetic.
Source? Boob-plate isn't uncommon in 40K media, even recently released stuff, so clearly GW isn't uncomfortable with the idea.
Rostere wrote: I really, really hate it when female warriors are given impractical armour to show off typically female traits, like boob plate for example.
The only reason people are not more upset by this is that they have grown used to it. When we see examples of ridiculous female attire and armour which is overly sexualized just so that the typical miniature gaming consumers can gloat over their bodies, it's shameful and symptomatic of the immature and sexist "boobs or GTFO" attitude which exists in a lot of gamer culture today, and insulting and condescending towards the male gamers who'd rather choose immersion over sexual fantasies. Not to mention the complete suspension of disbelief which occurs when you see male soldiers with armour that could be practical and then women in armour that was obviously created for the male gaze. Ordinary SoBs are great except for the boobplate, while specific units such as the Sisters Repentia are just ridiculous. Female penitent fanatics get to look like they were brought straight from a leather fetish porn movie (with whips and all, and half-exposed breasts!), while male penitent fanatics look like this. Yes, absolutely no subconscious sexism from GWs side there. They are certainly not the worst in this regard, but there's definitely still things to do.
Why is it shameful?
No one cares about Catachans or Space Marines who don't wear helmets, despite their appearances shattering immersion. Rule of Cool isn't the same thing as sexism.
No one cares about Catachans or Space Marines who don't wear helmets, despite their appearances shattering immersion. Rule of Cool isn't the same thing as sexism.
Yeah, but it is not the same Rule of Sexy either. They only interlap if you think sexy is cool.
Rule of sexy is a sub-trope of rule of cool. Saying they're different is the same line of pedantics as saying that character induced stupidity and plot induced stupidity are different.
Hm, the empire of 40k is quite on the fascist side, and fascists tend to be sexist.
There is actually nothing saying a setting where we accept whole planets of mining serfs and where people might become lobotomized servitor zombies, should have a equal and non sexist tradition regarding female warriors. Equality is not exactly a thing in the far future of the 41rst milennia.
That said, I would not mind seeing more of non sexist eldar, tau and IG (being more practical and based om individual cultures), and we know GW can do this.
It would also be awsome to see a codex: mechanicum matriarcy in the near future.
Heck, even the daemonettes look pretty decent considering.
I GW were to release a new codex, I'd rather have a standard codex than a limited edition one. Basically because only the rulebook and standard codexes are translated this days.
TheAuldGrump wrote: I have seen the Boob Monster... there is no unseeing it....
Spoiler:
I find that the pink-haired pinup is more disturbing than the wet nurse. Why? Because the wet nurse is supposed to be disturbing, is disturbing, and therefore looks cool. The pinup is supposed to be attractive, but is about as grotesque as the wet nurse, and therefore looks just plain wrong.
I'm thinking the pink haired girl is supposed to be somewhat disturbing, since it seems to be a personification of said boob monster.
Erasoketa wrote: I GW were to release a new codex, I'd rather have a standard codex than a limited edition one. Basically because only the rulebook and standard codexes are translated this days.
BlaxicanX wrote: Rule of sexy is a sub-trope of rule of cool. Saying they're different is the same line of pedantics as saying that character induced stupidity and plot induced stupidity are different.
Okay, let me rephrase it in a non-pedantic way. I am okay with Rule of Cool in general because I want 40k to be filled with cool stuff. I am however not okay with Rule of Sexy because I do not want to see my 40k filled with sexy stuff, and I think trying to make characters sexy impedes on making them cool. Rule of Cool in general is obviously not sexist, but Rule of Sexy in particular can, and usually do, lead to some pretty sexist representations. In the examples you were referring to, the no-helmet policy is there to make individual characters stand out more, to serve the storytelling and the epicness of setting. This is useful, and even though it is not realistic, it does not break immersion that much because it goes along well with the whole atmosphere of the setting. Sexiness does not.
Fayric wrote: Hm, the empire of 40k is quite on the fascist side, and fascists tend to be sexist.
Noticed something? Yeah, they are not dressed in stupid sexy clothing. Actually, from what I read, the North Korean regime is actually quite prude and women there are supposed to be very… modest. Fascists tend to be sexists, but their sexism usually does not express itself this way. Most of the time they tend to be pretty conservative.
When I went to the site, many of there were just temporarily unavailable so I didn't put much hopes into an update due to that.
BUt box art is another thing altogether. Would discussing this get the artists into trouble? Wouldn't these things have some non-disclosure thing to prevent leaks?
Models being temporarily unavailable is not a sign of the impending apocalypse. Nor is it a sign of an update around the corner.
Nor does it mean that suddenly, the Sisters will have bare midriffs or belly armour so thick you couldn't fry an egg in it.
What's more telling is that several artists have been commissioned to do Sisters art by the company, including box art.
I agree that models going unavailable means nothing more than they are unavailable... But you statement about box art is not quite making sense. GW hasn't been doing traditional art for boxes for a while; instead they have been doing photoshops of the actual models into backgrounds. If you're referring to art, as in drawings/paintings, I find it more likely that it would be for supplements/the 40k rulebook, and therefore have nothing to do with model box art/new release. So, commissions of drawings/paintings do not have anything to do with new models coming, unless you're referring to photoshop work with model photos.
Can you go into your statement about commissioning for box art a little further?
Heavily manipulated photos is the current trend, but that still requires artists.
Look, its just a rumour, ok? No, I didn't make it up, and yes, I trust my source, but no, I'm not going to state their identity or anything beyond the fact that they are working on this stuff, on commission - because yes, you're right, that would lose them a lot of future business and potentially their ability to even work in the industry (artists live by their reputation).
Now, it may not go anywhere - I don't know about GW specifically, but companies do commission art for speculative projects from time to time. The last time I got a rumour about box art commissions was for the Centurion release, though, and look how that panned out.
I do not mean to be rude or anything, but are you not already saying too much? I think in your position, I would have mentioned that I had some rumor that indicate a possible new release for Sisters without giving any specific details on the why and the how, and I would maybe, maybe have said more to people I trusted on PM (and who you trust here is up to you ).
Now of course, I do not know all that you know, so I may be completely wrong .
Am intrigued regarding the art commissions. To me, it's just another sign that Sisters are somewhere on GW's future agenda. But, as usual, there's no real sign of just when those plans might come to fruition.
I wasn't really saying that there were any. Really, all I was getting at was, as you said, their gender can alter one's perception of the models. It would be nice if the main thing that people took from them was "oh, these people are fanatics", since IMO that's the most important aspect of the Repentia.
So since we're talking about Repentia, some things I'd like to see done differently for them:
Replace the armoured boots they're wearing with bare feet and/or feet wrapped in strips of cloth. These women only own the rags made from their old robes and their Eviscarator, so they might as well look the part. A more wiry-muscled look (not unlike Lelith) wouldn't be unreasonable either. Additionally ditching the hoods for bald heads (maybe some with makeshift eye patches along with some rags being clearly used as a kind of field dressing) wouldn't be too far out there.
Lastly I'd up the ornateness of the Eviscarator. Maybe incorporating the Aquila into it so the casing looks like a wing, or maybe the Ecclesiarchy symbol, or an ornate casing of some kind (like those panels that come in the Immolator kit). It just strikes me as something that should really be eye catching and possibly come in several different designs as they sound like the sort of things that should look like pieces of art.
ClockworkZion wrote: Lastly I'd up the ornateness of the Eviscarator. Maybe incorporating the Aquila into it so the casing looks like a wing, or maybe the Ecclesiarchy symbol, or an ornate casing of some kind (like those panels that come in the Immolator kit). It just strikes me as something that should really be eye catching and possibly come in several different designs as they sound like the sort of things that should look like pieces of art.
I dunno, I think I like the Eviscerators being kinda plain. Suits the idea that they're penitents who have left their Order and are seeking redemption. It also makes a nice little contrast to the usual ornateness of the rest of the Sisters.
ClockworkZion wrote: Lastly I'd up the ornateness of the Eviscarator. Maybe incorporating the Aquila into it so the casing looks like a wing, or maybe the Ecclesiarchy symbol, or an ornate casing of some kind (like those panels that come in the Immolator kit). It just strikes me as something that should really be eye catching and possibly come in several different designs as they sound like the sort of things that should look like pieces of art.
I dunno, I think I like the Eviscerators being kinda plain. Suits the idea that they're penitents who have left their Order and are seeking redemption. It also makes a nice little contrast to the usual ornateness of the rest of the Sisters.
Eviscerators aren't only used by the Repentia though (or at least they didn't used to be), so the ornateness makes sense. Plus it adds something visually catching on a model dressed in rags.
ClockworkZion wrote: Eviscerators aren't only used by the Repentia though (or at least they didn't used to be), so the ornateness makes sense. Plus it adds something visually catching on a model dressed in rags.
Though that's not to say that the Repentia can't be using different looking ones to other Imperial forces.
I just think that a more simplistic desing suits them better, so as to emphasise how apart they are from the other Sisters. I also think that their geneal look is already eye-catching enough, in how it gets across the idea of them being penitents as well as how different they look to the rest of the army.
BlaxicanX wrote: I think they should just be completely naked, posed with their arms reaching high into the air.
Their private parts should be covered by swirls of fire, because family friendly.
Yeah, how about no.
My idea's better than your idea m8. Everyone would buy a flaming, naked penitent.
And I'd have to bathe in bleach to remove the taint of ever associating myself with such an army.
Sounds like you're jealous you didn't come up with it first.
No, I'm really not. I don't play Sisters because of the sex appeal or the boobs or because they're girls. I play them because I like their concept as an army and it's something that plays and feels different on the table from other armies. I mean the only other close range shooting army that falls under the "almost everything is 24" or less" is Grey Knights and they can brings some pretty decent toys to make them better in close combat.
BlaxicanX wrote: What is the concept of the army that you enjoy?
A parody of Catholosism mixed with Faith so strong it allows them to keep fighting through wounds that would kill a normal person. Their Holy Trinity being 3 kinds of weapons and the possibility that their religious devotion might be fueling the Emperor to becoming a kind of power of Chaos in his own right also adds to it.
And I'm sure someone could explain it better, but basically take a Space Marine. Now strip out all the modifications, hypno-theraphy, and fear supression. But leave the same level of badassery and you have an army of normal humans who are agueably even more badass than the Marines themselves just because they don't need all that extra stuff to get gak done. Just Faith and a Bolt Gun.
Woe be to the heretic, the witch and the mutant for we are the Adepta Sororitas the Emperors Brides and it is our scared duty to purge the taint, the rot and the weak from Humanity. We bring light to those who have faith and death to apostates who threaten the domain of man. We will never falter in our duty. We will never stop. We will succeed for we serve the Emperor and he is with us.
Seriously who doesn't like an army made up of crazy female navy seals nuns who evangelize with the barrel of a gun. They are such zealots and extremists that they get their arm blown off by a lascannon only to keep pushing forward because they are so insane and dogmatic to care. I also like duality of them being seen as pious and pure by Imperials citizens but in realty they are a major form of social control who suppress humanity.
BlaxicanX wrote: I think they should just be completely naked, posed with their arms reaching high into the air.
Their private parts should be covered by swirls of fire, because family friendly.
No. No swirl of fire, because that makes no freaking sense, and seriously, why cares about family friendly on models that are supposed to be nightmare fuel! Having them naked is not a problem though if they are sufficiently repulsive and horrible that they do not feel sexy. For instance, I would rather they have naked but ugly/flat unsexy breasts than the big, full, only slightly covered in a tantalizing way that they have now.
Also needs more horrible self-mutilations.
Basically, I would like them to look more like in the artwork I posted above:
No. Not Potts.Too many pin-ups and blatant pandering to let him anywhere near the Sisters. However, he could do very fine for Chaos monsters, as long as he stays out of mortal champions and too humanoid daemons. His monster are neat.
Astorath (forget nipple armour, can you say abdominal clenches? Yes you can!)
While we're at it, just take a look at Jarran Kell's chin! No-one's got a swell chin like Jarran.
The difference is that most of the fanbase isn't really equipped to recognise sexualisation in male miniatures. :p
I just wish people could get over it. 40kis sexy. Can we move on please?
Edit: Oh, and I forgot to answer. The turnaround on the boxes for the Centurians was about 6 months.
I like the simplicity of the Eviscerator, and wouldn't object to Oxy's vision of the Repentia. Heck, you don't need some ridicusilly 'swirl of fire'. Parchment nailed over the naughty bits is just fine. Then again, I don't believe that nudity is any more sinful or un-12A than tearing people apart with a giant chainsaw, so...
Laurell Hamilton may have been full of gak (we all know she really just wanted to sell more books) when she said she was including sex in her books because not doing so was hypocritical when she had people dying everywhere, but the words themselves have merit.
What do you mean they do not wear cups ? If you are speaking about their groins, it is clearly painted as some kind of solid piece of armor on the official paintjob :
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Space-Marine-Scouts I am not sure about what you mean.
Not sure about what you mean either. What do you mean by python? Is that some English, or British slang that I do not know?
Furyou Miko wrote: Astorath (forget nipple armour, can you say abdominal clenches? Yes you can!)
Okay, I give you that most of the Blood Angel-specific miniatures are quite sexualized . I forgot about them.
Furyou Miko wrote: The difference is that most of the fanbase isn't really equipped to recognise sexualisation in male miniatures. :p
Well, let us be honest, it is not as obvious and blatant as with many female miniature (except for the BA). There is no nipple armor (except BA) or nipple piercing or ass windows, but there is boob-plate and chainmail bikini. And 40k is relatively light on them, but other miniatures…
Furyou Miko wrote: I like the simplicity of the Eviscerator, and wouldn't object to Oxy's vision of the Repentia. Heck, you don't need some ridicusilly 'swirl of fire'. Parchment nailed over the naughty bits is just fine.
Then can even do the same stupid Barbie Doll anatomy as they did with the Exalted C'tan, since they seem to think it is okay. And before someone tells me the C'tan is some magical being that is not human, let me mention that :
- horses are not magical being but usually get the barbie doll anatomy treatment, to a general indifference (or they are all female or something), and
- some magical being that is not human having exactly the same body shape as a muscled human male except for the dangling bit is just every bit as stupid as “Repentia do not have vaginas because MIRACLE FROM THE EMPEROR.”. If you are willing to accept one explanation, just accept the other too .
Not sure about what you mean either. What do you mean by python? Is that some English, or British slang that I do not know?
Pythons are usually slang for referring to one's muscular arms
Spoiler:
I think the Scouts part was more of a joke, implying they are just 'naturally gifted' rather than wearing cups.
Not entirely sure that it really equates the way Furyou Miko says, as i think it is a bit of a case of False Equivalence between the Cheese Cake vs Beef Cake, as they are both predominately male fantasies (Lust and Power respectively.)
That said, I agree with the parchment over plain nudity. It breaks up the model, allows for a visible sign of the Protection of the Emperor in the form of scrolls (dammit i am not tattooing every damn Repentia all over their bodies)
I also agree that there should be a Repentia Class Evisorator that is nice and plain, good and sturdy and can be picked up off the battlefield after they die, and then a mastercrafted version, I do like the idea of the Aquilla wing, that are given to honoured members of the Ecc like priests and such.
If Sisters of Battle looked more like the artwork they'd be the best looking 40k army. They're the most grimdark people in grimdarkland.
Penitents should be emaciated, bleeding from self inflicted wounds and burns, disrobed, and have religious iconography and texts nailed into their skin. Like the artwork. They're self tortured fanatics on their last mission. They should be like Lone Wolves, you should benefit from them dying.
They look better with more believably sized swords though. Again like in the art.
I would argue that the Bloodwrack Medusa has demonstrated that GW is still not opposed to limited amounts of feminine nudity. They redesigned the Daemonettes because they legitimately did not intend them to be sexy or feminine, but instead scary demon hermaphrodites. Likewise Dark Elf Witches are deliberately clothed. Penitents may or may not be.
I have to agree if sisters looked anything like there artwork they would be an amazing looking army. I hope they get a codex soon but I still don't understand, are they not the militant arm of ordo hereticus. Games Workshop could include them in an inquisition book along with ordo malleus and the grey knights and ordo xenos and deathwatch. That would be an amazing codex. Each inquisitor opens up whatever options for there order. Lots of models and lots of versatility plus would be a blast to field for narratives. This would give sisters a huge bump to being used more as well.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: No. Not Potts.Too many pin-ups and blatant pandering to let him anywhere near the Sisters. However, he could do very fine for Chaos monsters, as long as he stays out of mortal champions and too humanoid daemons. His monster are neat.
It would still be better than if GW got Pegaso to do the SOB miniatures
Vain wrote: Not entirely sure that it really equates the way Furyou Miko says, as i think it is a bit of a case of False Equivalence between the Cheese Cake vs Beef Cake, as they are both predominately male fantasies (Lust and Power respectively.)
Yeah, if muscled was sexy, Hulk (the green guy that transform into Bruce Banner sometime, not Hoggan) would be known as a sex symbol.
Vain wrote: That said, I agree with the parchment over plain nudity.
Depends on how it is done. If done wrong, it can actually draw the eye toward the private parts and therefore make miniatures more sexy rather than less sexy. I would not want that.
Thazar wrote: but I still don't understand, are they not the militant arm of ordo hereticus. Games Workshop could include them in an inquisition book along with ordo malleus and the grey knights and ordo xenos and deathwatch.
That was an excuse that GW pulled out of its hat when they wanted to make one codex per Ordo, during the Inquisitor (the game) craze. It does not bring anything valuable to their fluff, and being merged with specialist marines will just diminish them, as just “Space Marines with a gimmick”…
sing your life wrote: It would still be better than if GW got Pegaso to do the SOB miniatures
Don't know about you, but I'd love the sisters to be distinctly female. Not necessary chainmail-bikini-naked, but obviously female and good looking too, for that whole bolter-bitches-style. Might be a reason to start a new army for me if they do that.
Power-armored dudes just dont have the same appeal as some fanatic boob-plated pyromaniacs.
What I dislike is the idea of people moaning about some of the sisters models potentially looking sexy.
Jesus christ, if they are female, they might be sexy. What does it matter?
Some of them might be ugly as hell.. who cares?
Just so long as they look bad ass enought to smite everything in their path, it doesn't matter.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Anyway, I'm fed up of reading 8 pages of the same tosh.
The key thing is wether or not we're going to see sisters any time soon.
I for one, bloody hope so!
Mij'aan wrote: What I dislike is the idea of people moaning about some of the sisters models potentially looking sexy.
Jesus christ, if they are female, they might be sexy. What does it matter?
Some of them might be ugly as hell.. who cares?
Just so long as they look bad ass enought to smite everything in their path, it doesn't matter.
I don't care if they end up looking a bit like eye candy as long as we're not delving into "intentional pinup" territory. The second Sisters start sticking their ass out or trying to emphasize their chests and look seductive is when the army becomes an attempt to get horny kids to buy them and a clear design that the devs aren't taking them even somewhat seriously anymore.
So yeah, sexy is fine as long as it doesn't go into needlessly pandering territory.
Kosake wrote: Don't know about you, but I'd love the sisters to be distinctly female. Not necessary chainmail-bikini-naked, but obviously female and good looking too, for that whole bolter-bitches-style.
Female, yes. Distinctly female, why not? But if that is just the faces and a few other details, that would be okay with me. Good looking? Obviously yes, but good-looking as warrior, which means classy armor, cool warrior poses, toughened veteran looks. Not cute faces and the usual “video game female character” body shape everywhere.
Mij'aan wrote: What I dislike is the idea of people moaning about some of the sisters models potentially looking sexy.
Jesus christ, if they are female, they might be sexy. What does it matter?[…]Just so long as they look bad ass enought to smite everything in their path, it doesn't matter.
Well, as I mentioned already, making them sexy usual ends up making them look less bad-ass. That is why it matters .
Beside, they are in power armor. It covers the full body. How can you get some to be sexy and other to be ugly when you can only see their face, and even then only for those that do not have their (good-looking ) sabbat-pattern helmets on!
sing your life wrote: They're a Large-scale company, it seems like their female models having covered genitals is the exception, not the rule.
Proper repentant people would wear "hairshirts" to give some measure of "mortification" to the body (at least that is how it was done in the good old days...).
It really is just a loosely spun shirt or undergarment to be very uncomfortable.
I saw some side note that some were made of wire (??!!).
So the clothing of choice for the penitent sister can be wire clothing, at least it may be more practical than the metal bikini.
I think some quote in the fluff is "anything worth doing should hurt" so that should fit the bill.
I have been happy watching game of thrones and it is great to see so many means of attire where women kick butt (Thinking of Brienne in particular).
Talizvar wrote: Proper repentant people would wear "hairshirts" to give some measure of "mortification" to the body (at least that is how it was done in the good old days...).
It really is just a loosely spun shirt or undergarment to be very uncomfortable.
I saw some side note that some were made of wire (??!!).
So the clothing of choice for the penitent sister can be wire clothing, at least it may be more practical than the metal bikini.
I think some quote in the fluff is "anything worth doing should hurt" so that should fit the bill.
I have been happy watching game of thrones and it is great to see so many means of attire where women kick butt (Thinking of Brienne in particular).
To take it further, a lot of Sisters wear hair shirts under their robes. The idea is to be slightly uncomfortable all the time, but to endure that discomfort as well. Would it work for Repentia? It could, yeah. I'm sure some people might end up upset that the gals would be wearing MORE clothes but it could definitely work.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just ran across a short story in Heroes of the Space Marines called "And They Shall Know No Fear" which features some Black Templars and Sisters from the Order of the Bloody Rose working together. Oh and the BT prays in it, so yeah, BT being religious is a thing that predates the current codex.
Thazar wrote: but I still don't understand, are they not the militant arm of ordo hereticus. Games Workshop could include them in an inquisition book along with ordo malleus and the grey knights and ordo xenos and deathwatch.
That was an excuse that GW pulled out of its hat when they wanted to make one codex per Ordo, during the Inquisitor (the game) craze. It does not bring anything valuable to their fluff, and being merged with specialist marines will just diminish them, as just “Space Marines with a gimmick”…
Additionally, it's been retconend away since.
Kosake wrote: Don't know about you, but I'd love the sisters to be distinctly female.
For me, the most important thing is that they look like hardcore, elite zealot-soldiers. How "feminine" they look should come second to that, IMO. Some of the faces could probably be improved a little from what they currently are, though.
ClockworkZion wrote: Would it work for Repentia? It could, yeah. I'm sure some people might end up upset that the gals would be wearing MORE clothes but it could definitely work.
Personally, I wouldn't mind Repentia who were more covered up, as long as it kept right to their theme of "fanatical zealots".
I am going to close this thread as it is more or less completely off from the original posting's intent. However, since a conversation about the sisters in general is evolving out of it, please feel free to start a new, appropriately titled thread about it if you want to continue, no problem.
A fresh line of plastic Sisters would be a huge financial investment and gamble, and it's one that 
![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif){kind=icon}
to dispel those. How many dice will you need to do that at least semi-reliably?
.
) sabbat-pattern helmets on!
