Wow~ !! Not too keen on the Wulver, although I admire the attempt. Posing is awesome for the Nomad, and the Sphinx is yet another scary looking mini for the CA!
I like everything except the Wulver.
In fact I don´t like both Wulver miniatures and it is a real pain in the ass for me because I think that they have an incredible troop profile (ARM3, W2, Climbing Plus, Mk12 no SWC... ) and their fluff is very cool, they could have become really awesome miniatures.
Sphinx is Awesome
Prowler is awesome (specially in the photo with all the shots around)
Karakuris = awesome
Yudbot and Netrod are cute.
Netrod...I'll make one or Rainbow brights high tech Pogo stick...
Yudbot is cute and I do kinda like it
Prowler... I might get one and convert him to be a little settled down
Sphinx yuck that things a mess
why they take a good idea like the Karakuris and turn them into Killer robo Geisha, shoulda stayed with the same first build and 3 new loadouts and poses
Wulver... not again... a few really good ideas have been done really poorly and this focus on super action pose 5000 hurts what could be good models...
That wulver in a snipers pose or some kinda against the wall pose... very cool...
I love infinity (if you can't tell) but they gotta calm down on the "too much action man super mid movement" pose or hire someone who can really really REALLY get it right...
my pockets will be ok this month.... matter of fact since Mr. Massacre my pockets have been really safe... hmm...
That wulver is the most stupid, idiotic, moronic thing I've seen in a long time.
It looks stupid AND it will be bad for gameplay. LoS is determined as for a normal posed model, so when people want to shoot the wulver they replace him with a normal standing infantry for LoS... wouldn't have to if he didn't have idiotic breakdancing pose.
5deadly wrote:Netrod...I'll make one or Rainbow brights high tech Pogo stick...
Yudbot is cute and I do kinda like it
Prowler... I might get one and convert him to be a little settled down
Sphinx yuck that things a mess
why they take a good idea like the Karakuris and turn them into Killer robo Geisha, shoulda stayed with the same first build and 3 new loadouts and poses
Wulver... not again... a few really good ideas have been done really poorly and this focus on super action pose 5000 hurts what could be good models...
That wulver in a snipers pose or some kinda against the wall pose... very cool...
I love infinity (if you can't tell) but they gotta calm down on the "too much action man super mid movement" pose or hire someone who can really really REALLY get it right...
my pockets will be ok this month.... matter of fact since Mr. Massacre my pockets have been really safe... hmm...
I agree with you for the most part, but I think it's a case of CB rolling dice and going for something special. Look at this mini for instance, the Reverend Moira
On paper this probably sounded terrible, but I think the sculptor pulled it off perfectly (it actually looks even better in person, you can appreciate all the tiny elements that make it 'work', and the number of tiny touches on such a small mini is simply phenomenal).
Even this month's Prowler actually, again a very dynamic pose. I think the problem is with going for a more action-orientated pose, the slightest mistake with it and it makes the whole model look wrong - as it arguably the case with the Wulver this month, it would be far easier to have the model in a more 'at ease' style pose.
But, occasionally they pull it off (such as in the examples above) and I think those guys are worth the odd misfire
Pacific wrote:On paper this probably sounded terrible, but I think the sculptor pulled it off perfectly (it actually looks even better in person, you can appreciate all the tiny elements that make it 'work', and the number of tiny touches on such a small mini is simply phenomenal).
Even this month's Prowler actually, again a very dynamic pose. I think the problem is with going for a more action-orientated pose, the slightest mistake with it and it makes the whole model look wrong - as it arguably the case with the Wulver this month, it would be far easier to have the model in a more 'at ease' style pose.
But, occasionally they pull it off (such as in the examples above) and I think those guys are worth the odd misfire
I don't think anyone is criticizing the quality of the miniatures. It's just the design choices that strike us a questionable.
There's a difference between an action pose and a "I'm bringing the terrain with me" Horizontalman pose. The Reverend Moira, the Prowler, and other action poses look great when they're doing common battlefield tasks like dodging bullets or taking cover... but looking cool while doing it. The Wulver is eternally leaping over a barrier... and the novelty fades quickly...
Anyways, it doesn't look as awful if you make it stand upright and remove the inexplicable piece of terrain.
Indolent Bastard on the official forums made this:
Did it come across that I was criticizing the miniatures? Quite the opposite in fact, as I said in the rest of my post I think most of them are superb.
Infinity certainly isn't affraid to try new things, and to be fair to them, 95% of the time, I think they pull it off, they have some of the greatest sculptors working for them.....so yeah, I will certainly forgive them the odd slip up.
They've made a few pieces now that have come intergrated with their terrain.....in most cases I don't like this, it limits the miniature IMHO.
That prowler is absolutely as good as the other prowler (which was my first Infinity model). They're both just completely awesome in every way, the rules, the weapon options, the style. Future SAS for the win. Buying one as soon as I finish my current models.
Now I just want them to release an all-new Corregidor sectorial box, with all-new intruders, mobile brigada, etc.
Delephont wrote:Infinity certainly isn't affraid to try new things, and to be fair to them, 95% of the time, I think they pull it off, they have some of the greatest sculptors working for them......
More concretely
-Fernando Liste: Founder of CB, sculptor and business man, has a degree in business management and is the man who leads CB from the shadows. The man behind the Ariadnian line and some single works like the Pheasant or Zoe. Naturally from Galicia, Spain.
-Carlos Torres: Founder of CB, sculptor and Artist Designer. You know him mainly because of his Morats and part of the Haqqislam line as well as ISS Celestial guards. He's done some impressive minis like the Yuan Yuan girl or the Naga sniper. Naturally from Galicia, Spain.
-Jose Luis Roig: It's CB's only full time sculptor. The soul of PanOcenia and responsible for the Appleseed touch/vibe Infinity high tech models breath. All REMs in the game including those of Aleph, many TAGs (including the Cutter), the full PanO line and YuJIng's Aragoto bikers, sniper and hacker ninja, Haqqislam's Lasiqs as well as some characters like BranDoCastro or Cassandra are part of his work. From my city, Barcelona, Spain, but currently living in Cangas CB's HQs, Galicia.
-Juan Navarro: Ex Rackham sculptor, currently CB's Free Lancer and Anima Tactics main sculptor responsible for around 85% of such line. You all love this guy. It's the reason Infinity girls look like the most perfect women of your dreams. This guy is all about adaptation and versatility and works in many lines/factions. To name some of his works: with exception of Nagas and the Asura MULTI rifle, the rest of Aleph's LHost line is form him (Dasyus, Achilles, Myrmidons,...), Oniwaban, Haramaki, Kempeitai and Shinobu for JSA, the Shasvastii line (with esception of the TAG), Haqqislam's Odalisques, Hafza and Saladin or the breathtaking Bakunin line: Moderators, Custodier, Sineaters and yes! both prowlers. Oh, and I almost forgot the LE Yuan Yuan with heavy armor This guy is from Barcelona, Spain.
-Pedro Fernandez:CB's most recent addition as a Free Lancer. Ex Game Zone's sculpting studio director. His work is short but impactant, mainly for Ariadna: the Merovingian Line (Metros, Zouaves, Loup Garou), William Wallace, Cateran, 112 and Bakunin UberFallKommando. I think he's from Malaga or Sevilla, at the South of Spain.
This five guys are entirely responsible for the last two years since Human Sphere release, the ones that make you all drool over the keyboard each month. My main point is that it's not that they have some of the greatest sculptors working for them BUT the fact they have worked hard to be amongst the best sculptors. Realize 3 of the 5 sculptors are "made in CB".
Other sculptors have worked for CB in the past like:
-Yannick Hennebo: Ex Rackham, responsible for the initial YuJing line and part of the Nomads. His last work for CB: Hsien HMG and MULTI. Currently working as a free lancer mainly for Studio McVey. He's french.
-Michael Bigaüd (MIKH): Ex Rackham, Sculpting Studio director of the big R. His intervention in Infinity was mainly for the EC: the Exrah line and the initial Shasvastii line which later Juan Navarro took charge of. His last work for CB: Karakuri combi old model. After that he rennounced as CB's Free Lancer in order to join as a Helldorado Studio Nantes full member and started working in the Immortals line, a few months later Helldorado went BOOM. Of course, french.
GiraffeX wrote:I wonder if Karakuri could be used as Necrons after a quick weapon swap.
More likely they would be good "servitor" counts as, Necrons should look less Anime Tech......IMHO
But on the other hand, they do have Pariahs, which are a bit more in line with the Karakuri. I have a hard time seeing why Necrons would bother with bulging chests, but whatever. Do what you want to do.
How long does it usually take before stores like Maelstrom begin stocking newly announced stuff? I need that Sphinx nao!
Those are some beautiful pictures of some beautiful minis..
Not really news, but a great write-up on this blog for those people thinking about taking up Infinity but perhaps can't decide if it's there thing or not:
SPHINX! My SEF boys are squealing in delight (at least I think that's what that sound is ) ... And the new prowler has one-upped his buddy, which is hard to do considering how nice the first prowler is.
Ok, so Hussein does not has his face exposed.
I guessed that we could see a Hassassin without the usual helmet because this guy is the Hero but, he is also the best Fiday ever so having his face exposed for everyone would be inapropiate 'cause he is an impersonator.
I think I would prefer a sword instead of the claw for CC Viral weapon, and the design reminds more a Lasiq than a Fiday.
Doesn´t matter, as Fday I will always have her:
and her prefect ass.
I'm guess it just means more choices. The infinity system already has a huge expanse of types that they haven't even created units for the types they already have lol.
BlueDagger wrote:I'm guess it just means more choices. The infinity system already has a huge expanse of types that they haven't even created units for the types they already have lol.
Lookin at you Archaic TAG
Wouldn't be sweet having an Archaic TAG for Ariadna in the upcoming book? Don't take this as a hint, I'm Spanish but I didn't attend the event. It's just wishlisting. But hey, I don't think it's too difficult.
BobbaFett wrote:Example: Odalisques from "Human Sphere" Vs. Djanbazans from the 1st Book.
Ah, that actually makes sense.
I was worried that vehicles and such would be coming out. I wouldn't mind it that much, but it'd kill the spirit. TAGs are annoying enough as it is.
Thank you for the rumors! My friends and I took the leap into Infinity about a month ago. We're still assembling and painting up models, but so far, I'm very impressed. I do wish they'd focus on putting out the models missing from the current range before releasing new ones. Also, it would be very cool to have some kind of campaign system, Necromunda-style!
jmw23 wrote:Thank you for the rumors! My friends and I took the leap into Infinity about a month ago. We're still assembling and painting up models, but so far, I'm very impressed. I do wish they'd focus on putting out the models missing from the current range before releasing new ones. Also, it would be very cool to have some kind of campaign system, Necromunda-style!
They actually compensate with the holes in the line by stating that in official tournaments it's 100% legal to proxy a like sized/equipped model for any hole in the line. If you think about it they aim to have a unique model for every loadout and unit in the game and put out 4-8 new models every month... that is an incredible feat from a logistical point of view. I personally would rather have new unit stats and loadout at a more frequent rate then wait for them to catchup their whole line before putting new stuff out.
The guys that sculpt the stuff aren't the guys that write the rules for new stuff and the sculptors can only put out this high quality of stuff so fast I would imagine.
jmw23 wrote:Thank you for the rumors! My friends and I took the leap into Infinity about a month ago. We're still assembling and painting up models, but so far, I'm very impressed. I do wish they'd focus on putting out the models missing from the current range before releasing new ones. Also, it would be very cool to have some kind of campaign system, Necromunda-style!
THIS. The beauty of skirmish systems are the ability to intimately know each and every one of your fighters, to be able to tell awesome stories and have the fighters grow as you play. A skirmish system lacking campaign systems is just... meh. Hopefully, they're just spending some good time working on it and making sure it is legit...
Supposedly the next book will have a heavy focus on scenarios - especially scenarios where "kill everyone" isn't a viable objective. This lends way to campaigns.
It is definitely a start, at least providing a little bit of narrative, but without skills and/or leveling somehow Infinity (and any other skirmish game) will always fall short of its potential.
Be careful...
I've playing this game for years and if you allow an Aquila guard to upgrade his stats to become an even deadlier nightmare you'll be breaking the delicate balance of the game.
Just imagine that you are giving smoke grenades to an Aquila Guard, or BS 19 or TO Cammo... taht would be so fething wrong...
I want rules that allow me to upgrade my army between battles, but I hope everything is properly tested, because Infinity is a hard game to balance.
BobbaFett wrote:Be careful...
I've playing this game for years and if you allow an Aquila guard to upgrade his stats to become an even deadlier nightmare you'll be breaking the delicate balance of the game.
I agree that it's a challenge, but I don't think it's impossible either. The much-reviled GW tackled that problem by putting out a line of human gang members for their 40K campaign system, and later simple Orks. As games went on, the green troops matured and became deadly. I don't think anyone is looking to see an Avatar get even tougher, say, but some kind of campaign would be a lot of fun.
DeathGod wrote:It is definitely a start, at least providing a little bit of narrative, but without skills and/or leveling somehow Infinity (and any other skirmish game) will always fall short of its potential.
I don't much like character advancement, in skirmish games or in RPGs. Particularly in skirmish games, though, it means that the finely balanced game system is screwed up. Why would I want to battle against your high-ranked gang, who have better kit than my newbies? It's not going to be a fair fight. The result of a wargame should be dependent on player skill, not on how long they've spent levelling up their force.
DeathGod wrote:It is definitely a start, at least providing a little bit of narrative, but without skills and/or leveling somehow Infinity (and any other skirmish game) will always fall short of its potential.
EDIT: In my humble opinion, of course...
Just curious, but have you ever played Infinity?
I've dangled my feet in the water, and this is what's keeping me from jumping in head first.
Kilkrazy wrote:It's an option that will be useful and fun if you play a role-playing campaign based on the rules. Otherwise it will tend to lead to unbalanced games.
I agree with this statement, in a friendly campaigns it works good... also something people need to do is not just upgrades but injuries, running low on ammo and supplies… ( like killing the supply line scenarios) these thing can make the Super hero upgraded Character not so super.
Was someone playing at the bottom of a swimming pool? Do you mean you have just tried some demo games or some such like? I have to say it is unusual in my experience for someone to witness the game and then not want to jump in head first straight after (not even bother changing into swimming gear!)
I agree about some of the units becoming too powerful, stuff like Hac Tao with HMG or a Cutter is already pretty horrific, if they had even more skills and abilities it could take 'ramboing' to an even higher level, or a situation where there is too much disparity between levels of units (something that some people would argue is already quite pronounced).
Another point with Infinity as well (although really this could apply to other wargames) is that most of the guys on the board are supposed to be highly trained. So, while Fusilier Angus might learn to shoot a bit better, a Tiger Soldier who has already been part of extensive training and fought in special ops for many years already represents the peak of his profession, with the best equipment that the Yu Jing government can provide. Would there really be a noticeable improvement (enough to make a stat increase?) for that soldier? And what stats could you increase? Perhaps BS? Certainly not PHI, ARM or BTS, that would make no sense. I think while the idea is nice of improving soldiers, in practical terms I think it could seriously undermine the delicate balance of the game - something that the developers spent a long time (was it 4 years?) beta testing to try and get right.
There is the scenario book coming next year, and already on the official forums some great player-made linked scenarios and games. I think it might be possible to introduce some campaign elements - perhaps game advantages (choice of mission, increase or decrease of SWC, points bonus) to a small degree which would allow some campaign progression without undermining the balance of the game.
To be honest, I could care less if "leveling" changes tabletop play in any way. What I am wanting is growth of character in a campaign setting. Not a tournament setting, not a one off game, but in a campaign. I want to be able to differentiate my Hexas from the guy three tables down by more than their paint jobs.
"Leveling" can be more than stat increases and borrowing special rules from other units. In fact, it should be more. Maybe added skills will alter scenario choices, or how a fighter operates within given scenarios. Maybe a fighter can choose alternate ammo, making him more effective against, say, TAGs, while less effective against infantry. Maybe you can add in options for background - a PanO religious trooper coming from a pagan convert background, for example - that subtly changes the fighter's gameplay but greatly enhances his impact on a campaign's story.
These are the types of things that make the great skirmish games great and the poor skirmish games forgotten. "Leveling" doesn't have to be about power, but MUST be about growth.
@DeathGod: What you are describing is a great _narrative_ skirmish game. Narrative skirmish games also differ in that they do not start with very elite troops that have specialized skills and cool gear.
Infinity is a _tactical_ skirmish game, which is quite a different beast. It is set up for those who want to make careful, intricate plans, and execute really interesting tactical scenarios- the kind that are a lot harder to get out of a narrative game where abilities etc. are a lot more random. Infinity does tactical skirmish very, very well, and is very carefully balanced to do it. [In fact, it has a lot of mechanical similarities to Advanced Squad Leader, pretty much the greatest tactical skirmish game ever].
I've played a lot of both kinds of game (including tons of Necor and now a good amount of Infinity). They are really apples and oranges, and they don't mix well in either pure form. Suggesting that Infinity isn't very good because it isn't a narrative skirmish system is really missing the point of the game's existence.
Now that's not to say that someone couldn't create a really, really well-balanced narrative system where every possible evolution has been tested really well. Maybe that's what you should do.
Rather than suggest that Infinity become a narrative game, you should probably take it upon yourself to design your own happy medium between the two forms- or to explore and see if there's already one out there. but pooh-poohing Infinity (especially when you're not well experienced with the system) is pretty silly.
- One way is making a 300pts army list, play the first battle. Whether you win or loose you'll get some bonus for reinforcements and proceed to the next battle. Your army now is made by the survivors of the first battle and a few reinforcement units. And this goes on and on during the whole campaign. Your soldiers become veterans and their stats grow.
Ok, while I like this particular model of campaign here, there is one main problem: CB has leaked that the campaign will be full of missions.
I don't know if all of you guys know how this game changes when you have mission objectives, but this game has like 40 different troop profiles for each army, with 4-6 equipment options each. That is why designing your army list in Infinity is HUGE, that is why they have this extremely awesome app for making your army list. Part of the Infinity experience is that you can design a completely precise, mission-oriented, army list. You can play Infinity for years and never repeat an army list.
If you make an Infinity campaign using the model described above, you¡ll be missing the richness of this game system.
This image was published by Ravage Magazine for a campaign system created by the French Infinity community (Aegis) and had some supervision from CB.
So, what would be the other model? A system that allows you to make a new army list when the mission is scheduled.
Also, they need rules for the "Cube" troops, and baggage drones.
There are all kinds of campaigns and systems that would work in an Infinity setting. I just played a campaign of Combat Commander dealing with US paratroops in Normandy, and had a blast. The winner of each game got their choice of scenario next time, while the loser received some sort of advantage (reinforcements, artillery support, a jeep, etc.). It sounds like the new scenario book will be doing something along those lines, that is linked scenarios.
I still say Infinity could do some kind of growth-based campaign. You wouldn't need to start with elite troops that got even better, but rather with green troops that become elite. I saw some previous posters complaining about balance. I'm very leery of that term in a dice-based table top game. If a campaign isn't balanced....so what? Save that for tournament play.
Savnock wrote: but pooh-poohing Infinity (especially when you're not well experienced with the system) is pretty silly.
If I gave the im pression that I disapprove of Infinity, than that's my bad, and was not my intention at all. I was talking about what is preventing me from taking the plunge (which I define as dropping a couple Benjamins, not the 150 points I've already done). I have to agree, Infinity does tactical skirmish very well.
To take a different track and give an example I'll use video games. For me, I am much more likely to drop $60 on a game that has alot of replayability. That's not to say that, say, a RTS like Dawn of War is bad, per say, but I prefer a game like Fallout that I could replay 100 times and have 100 different experiences. Bringing it back to Infinity, there's only so many times I can line up my models against the other guys' models and play Kill 'Em All. The Metallica album is awesome and can go on infinite loop, but I need more from my wargames.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Something I thought of while reading some other posts about the forthcoming book of scenarios was Battletech in its early years. For those who don't know, FASA had created a universe that was incredibly rich, with diverse factions and characters, and built upon in both sourcebooks and some very, very good novels.
Battletech the tactical game was very similar to Infinity. Similar to what BobbaFett was saying, Battletech game options were almost infinite (with a very well balanced Mech Creator, so you could design your own). That being said, after awhile games got pretty stale. FASA's solution was historical campaigns, with linked scenarios recreating important battles and heroic deeds from the fiction. You could replay some of the great battles between House Davion and House Kurita, or refight the Invasion of Tukkayid and prevent the Clans from rampaging through the Inner Sphere. These campaigns were not as diverse as what I am wishlishting, and did not have the character growth I'd like to see, but they would be a great bridge between what there is now, and what many of us would like to see.
Sounds like the aforementioned New Book of Scenarios may be precisely that...
I just wanted to post up a huge kudos to Corvus Belli. They just send out a tournament pack overnighted from Spain (can't imagine how much that cost) packed to the gills with blisters and swag for the upcoming Con in Denver, Colorado US. It didn't have the weapons packs in it though do to a mixup in shipping :(
For a company their size spending prob $250ish bucks for their fans was pretty damn cool of them. Please note though that they don't do this for everyone, we kinda have a rivalry going on between Spain and Colorado on who can run the biggest tournament. If you are in the area Nov 5th grab a ticket for the Con and help us beat their record.
Pacific wrote:Don't suppose you know any way to get a blown-up image of that map Bobbafett?
All I know is that the French Infinity community had a lot of exclusive stuff through the Ravage Magazine. They' made lots of scenarios and, in their website, they had a campaign system with that map.
I've been looking in their website, but I cannot find a Hi-Res image of the map.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, I have just wtached this video from Doremicom.
And it looks like at MACE 2011 in North Carolina they'll have Infinity demos and tournament.
Savnock wrote:Rather than suggest that Infinity become a narrative game, you should probably take it upon yourself to design your own happy medium between the two forms- or to explore and see if there's already one out there. but pooh-poohing Infinity (especially when you're not well experienced with the system) is pretty silly.
Done!
Well, started, anyways... looking for feedback and suggestions.
Savnock wrote:Rather than suggest that Infinity become a narrative game, you should probably take it upon yourself to design your own happy medium between the two forms- or to explore and see if there's already one out there. but pooh-poohing Infinity (especially when you're not well experienced with the system) is pretty silly.
Done!
Well, started, anyways... looking for feedback and suggestions.
Savnock wrote:Rather than suggest that Infinity become a narrative game, you should probably take it upon yourself to design your own happy medium between the two forms- or to explore and see if there's already one out there. but pooh-poohing Infinity (especially when you're not well experienced with the system) is pretty silly.
Done!
Well, started, anyways... looking for feedback and suggestions.
Rumours says that the Infinity website will be updated this friday.
Probably the constant massive use of f5 during the first minutes will crash the server... again... as usual.
And we already know that Hussein Al-Djabel comes with this bunch.
Then, many people is hoping for:
Sforza
Sogarat
Merovingian starter pack
Haiduk
and POST HUMANS above anything else.
It is pretty obvious that a TAG is coming in November.
Please dear Jeebus, SFORZA us! Nothing else is really close enough to proxy well.
BlueDagger, might you be willing to relate your experiences/lessons learned as an Infinity TO to the rest of us (either here or on the CB boards)? It would help a lot for those of us in areas with nascent leagues.
I think that's the big one everyone is hoping for! But, I don't know sadly, hopefully Absolutionis will do his usual detective work closer to the time!
Pacific wrote:I think that's the big one everyone is hoping for! But, I don't know sadly, hopefully Absolutionis will do his usual detective work closer to the time!
Of course we all would love that, but as others have pointed out before, entirely-new units are not likely to come out before the line of miniatures in published books is somewhat more finished.
Well, that is not exactly true.
There are troops from the first book that still don´t have miniature (Jotum, Dragao, Raicho...) and they did release troops from Human Sphere years before the books was released. I bet that we can even see something shiny even before 2012.
I've found these images on the spanish Infinity official forum, which were taken from the O-12 german infinity community. These are photos taken in the Spiel 2011 at Essen, Germany, if i'm right, where two of the Corvus Belli Staff members took new minis and concepts:
Minis:
Loup Garous, i think it's a box of 4 minis:
Traktor Mul:
Concepts:
TAG Dragoes:
Al-hawwa (don't know if this is the correct name, sorry):
Drools at the Drago, that is going to look so insanely good. For those unfamiliar CB is ridiculous good at making their models look incredibly like their concept art.
The Traktor Mul is exactly how we all imagined and they nailed it!
Very happy to see more Garou available Once I get these pesky CA painted I've been thinking Merovingian are #2, and these dudes certainly sweeten that deal
I think I just peed myself a little for that Infinity stuff.
I'm really liking those guys.
Is there a painting tutorial for those paint jobs? I really like how that dirty trenchcoat look came off on those Loupes. That mix and the shade of that blue relly put that figure together.
Grot 6 wrote:I think I just peed myself a little for that Infinity stuff.
I'm really liking those guys.
Is there a painting tutorial for those paint jobs? I really like how that dirty trenchcoat look came off on those Loupes. That mix and the shade of that blue relly put that figure together.
Great job on that one.
AFAIK there aren't official tutorials from CB or Angel Giraldez. Beast of War guys have a couple, but with their own color choices and I guess some different techniques. Angel Giraldez uses a combination of airbrush and normal brushes that I don't really know much about it.
Yeah, that new concept art is almost unimaginably cool, especially the Posthuman Proxy. I'm glad for once that I haven't started painting the very old Denizen Miniatures SF figures I've been using for Posthumans, as I will definitely be getting the official minis now!
Searth wrote:Are infinity models the same size as original warhammer 40k models?
They're the same "scale" in a sense (28mm), but different in proportions.
Warhammer has exaggerated proportions with unusually large arms, hands, and guns. All figures look "fat".
Infinity goes for more realistic (and idealized) proportions.
Seeing all this stuff, I wonder to myself why Infinity isn't so much bigger than it is?
I don't want to turn this thread into a vs GW thread, but it just makes me wonder about the bigger picture.
We're taught from a young age, that if you do well you will succeed, however, the wargaming community doesn't seem to reward quality, or innovation, instead prefering to stick with what it "knows" and rewarding mediocrity with ever increasing sums of money......Earth and the human race, what a natural wonder
Searth wrote:Are infinity models the same size as original warhammer 40k models?
I had to field this point on another forum, I'll dredge out some photos I took of 'naked' models so you can see the scale used...
*rummages*
There we go!
Those are Keisotsu, who are in keeping with standard Infinity scale (some of their older miniatures are a bit bulkier, closer to GW scale). That said, they are light infantry - i.e. plain old humans in uniform. The medium and especially heavy infantry models are generally larger, being clad in bulky powered armour, so the heavies come closer to the height of GW figures. Again, compare the below shot, which shows the two keisotsu (now painted) with two unfinished Hsien (heavy infantry) figures besides them. Apologies for the quality of the image - artificial, orangey lighting + orange paint jobs = not so great a photo.
Delephont wrote:Seeing all this stuff, I wonder to myself why Infinity isn't so much bigger than it is?
I don't want to turn this thread into a vs GW thread, but it just makes me wonder about the bigger picture.
We're taught from a young age, that if you do well you will succeed, however, the wargaming community doesn't seem to reward quality, or innovation, instead prefering to stick with what it "knows" and rewarding mediocrity with ever increasing sums of money......Earth and the human race, what a natural wonder
1: You can't support a system you've never heard of. Not every gamer stalks the net looking for new games and model releases. Lots of people only play amongst friends.
2: If you have a game you enjoy why would you go looking for a different game. If you're having fun playing/painting/modelling with 40k (it may come as a shock to learn that some people do enjoy 40k) or Warmachine you have no particular reason to seek out another game, which leads into my third point:
3: Even if you have heard of infinity and want to play it, very few people have the time to play a second game or be the driving force behind people picking up a new game. I barely have time to play one game of anything a month at the moment let alone persuade people to start playing a new game.
Not too difficult once you get a demo or two (or three) in, and putting in a little effort reveals a remarkable game.
I suppose that might be a 'point against'?
A 'point for' is that a typical army is maybe 10 figures, and you can easily field many different factions for the cost of a typical 'all options' 40K army.
Part of the 'blame' (if you can really call it that) just might be that Corvus Belli is a small company, and they are doing the best they can.
The recent INFINITY WEEK on Beasts of War had to help though!
I was rather disappointed that the Posthuman Proxy looked too much like a military unit and less like the hidden-battle-civilian with a soul-jump that I imagined it to be.
Well, this pretty much was the tipping point for me. Even though I'm totally busy with grad school and don't have much money to spare, I picked up the Infinity rulebook today. Probably won't be able to buy any figures until the semester ends but I'm definitely going to start.
In response to the comments by Plastictrees and Delphont, I think you have both made some good points.
Doing 'what you know', not taking a risk trying something new, is one of the staples of human character for a lot of people. And especially in wargaming, where so many good ideas have disappeared and never to be heard from again.
But, if it were always the case then games like Warmachine, perhaps even FoW, would never had gained popularity and become what they are today.
Infinity has a couple of things going for it:
- A very distinctive style, this won't be to everyone's taste, but with some beautifully realised imagery and miniatures.
- The low model count and entry price point.
- The rule system, as Alpharius says once you play a few games it hooks most people badly. Someone once said to me that Infinity to 40k is what chess is to chequers, and I think in terms of depth in the game this is a good analogy.
So I think people are doing as they did in the early days with PP games in GW dominated gaming clubs - get some terrain set up, a couple of small demo games set up and show people the game. I think most gamers are pretty open minded, and if they see people having fun will want to see what all the fuss is about!
OK, to be fair, I realise that nothing is so black and white people have been involved with WH40K since before Infinity was even created, and as such have not only built up a massive army and collection of gaming products from GW, but have probably also gathered long time friends through 40K.
I realise it's hard to simply drop all of that, especially when you may see the beauty of Infinity but are not sure if it's just a flash in the pan compared to the sustained longevity of 40K.
Stupidly my comments were made without really thinking of the whole picture. I guess time will tell whether Infinity really has what it takes to be a major player in the gaming industry....
The other thing of course is that due to it's small model count, Infinity is perfectly playable along with other larger-scale games (40k,WFB and the like). It doesn't have to be 'either/or', I fully intend to play Infinity alongside 40k/WFB and even FoW when I have time
I play both 40k and Infinity regularly, and a big "pusher" of Infinity I can speak from plenty of experience on both games.
40k is a great game and it is unique in it's experience. There is something to be said for fielding a large number of models and playing in a large scale battle. I play competitive Eldar, a very finesse army that requires a lot of thought. The game is getting INCREDIBLY expensive and the owners of the game seem like they are trying to self destruct.
That being said, 40k is the game I play when I just want to sit back and relax without thinking too much. There isn't a ton of cinematics to the game other then the actually seeing of things moving around.
Now on the other side there is Infinity, which is a very realistic squad vs squad special operations game. The first thing that draws you in is the looks of the game because, as 40k fans, we aren't use to seeing such a busy board. The game literally plays out like a first person shooter and can be as simple as move, move, move, shoot, or as complex as move, shoot wi-fi repeater, hacker tunnels through marks target, guided missile launcher hit target.
That being said, Infinity is a very focus intensive game which is a double edge sword. Playing back to back matches will drain you mentally if you are playing in a tournament setting, which I like lol. It also requires a large amount of terrain which can be a bit cumbersome to transport, setup, and tear down. Of course there is the ever present issue of the low population of players, but that is a given for anything but 40k.
I'm just writing from my point of view here, but INFINITY is the most challenging wargame I've ever played.
When I have a battle against other experienced player and we are both playing aggressively I end the battle mentally exhausted. The day after that match I usually remember the battle as a RPG, every move of the soldiers, every order spent becomes such a cinematic moment...
I've only experienced that kind of feeling with EPIC roleplaying games, when the DM and the rest of the players are really making it awesome.
Now, a few facts from Corvus Belli that maybe some you would like to know:
- It started as a very small company in Spain 10 years ago.
- They have a 15mm historical range. Some expert told me that the quality is top.
- They did release a Fantasy line before Infinity, it was named "Warcrow" (which is what Corvus Belli means in latin). Those miniatures can still be purchased through their online store.
- In 2005 they release INFINITY with the first three armies PanOceania, Yu Jing adn Ariadna. No rulebook, just some free quickstart rules. At that point they were still testing everything from the first book.
- New armies appear every 4 months: Haqqislam, Nomads and the Combined Army.
- 2007 First Infinity book gets released.
- February 2008 first miniatures from "Human Sphere" are released, their troop profile is published in the website (This becomes a usual mechanich, new troop are released this way, sooner or later this will happen again.)
- 2009 "Human Sphere" is released, it includes a new Army: ALEPH.
- Today they are experiencing a wild growth. Even during this crisis times, they are buying new machinery and hiring new employees, and the quality and number of their releases is growing. They are making partnerships with other companies (Battlefoam, MicroArt). They are planning to release at least two more books ("Campaign book" and something they refer as "Human Sphere 2").
So, from this I can tell one thing:
FACT every small miniature company die after their first two years, CB has passed this point lon ago. They are here to stay, and they do have a promising growing curve even during this times.
Hush Hush: John Blanche is an Infinity fan and he has a PanOceania Army painted by Angel Giraldez.
BobbaFett wrote:Hush Hush: John Blanche is an Infinity fan and he has a PanOceania Army painted by Angel Giraldez.
You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games.
Actually, I read it as quite the opposite. Looks like Bobbafett is illustrating that even someone as entrenched in WH40K as John Blanche has found love for Infinity.
BobbaFett wrote:Hush Hush: John Blanche is an Infinity fan and he has a PanOceania Army painted by Angel Giraldez.
You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games.
Actually, I read it as quite the opposite. Looks like Bobbafett is illustrating that even someone as entrenched in WH40K as John Blanche has found love for Infinity.
Which still goes to Brook's point of "You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games."
It's well-known that the GW studio guys don't exclusively play GW games. Whether it's the Perry brothers and their love for historical gaming or this new tidbit of John Blanche enjoying Infinity--it's a big who cares?
People like what they like. The studio members are not the company itself, and it's not damning or supporting one system or another--it's individuals enjoying what they enjoy.
BobbaFett wrote:Hush Hush: John Blanche is an Infinity fan and he has a PanOceania Army painted by Angel Giraldez.
You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games.
Actually, I read it as quite the opposite. Looks like Bobbafett is illustrating that even someone as entrenched in WH40K as John Blanche has found love for Infinity.
Which still goes to Brook's point of "You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games."
No, its more like "YOU CAN PLAY MORE THEN ONE GAME."
On a side lucky bastard that John as Angel is one of the best miniature painters in the world.
BobbaFett wrote:Hush Hush: John Blanche is an Infinity fan and he has a PanOceania Army painted by Angel Giraldez.
You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games.
Actually, I read it as quite the opposite. Looks like Bobbafett is illustrating that even someone as entrenched in WH40K as John Blanche has found love for Infinity.
I think that it is simply an indication of what high esteem he holds the game and imagery in, that someone who has been responsible for a huge chunk of the the artwork and even background we have seen in 40k over the years can have a high appreciation for someone else's work.
BobbaFett wrote:Hush Hush: John Blanche is an Infinity fan and he has a PanOceania Army painted by Angel Giraldez.
You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games.
Actually, I read it as quite the opposite. Looks like Bobbafett is illustrating that even someone as entrenched in WH40K as John Blanche has found love for Infinity.
Which still goes to Brook's point of "You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games."
It's well-known that the GW studio guys don't exclusively play GW games. Whether it's the Perry brothers and their love for historical gaming or this new tidbit of John Blanche enjoying Infinity--it's a big who cares?
People like what they like. The studio members are not the company itself, and it's not damning or supporting one system or another--it's individuals enjoying what they enjoy.
Well, I care. It's a good sign that people involved in the development of games I like aren't closed to their own stuff in a certain "inbreeding" poor way. It shows that they are not as blind to the rest of the gaming world as GW pretends to be in the latest years. Some years ago they were more opened to talk about other games.
Off-topic: guys, if you mix words like then and than it doesn't make it easier to understand you to us non-native English speakers :\
Kanluwen wrote:John Blanche isn't really involved in the development of games. He's been with the company for awhile, but he's an artist not a games developer.
I know he doesn't write rules or background, but I would say that the visual part (drawings, miniature design, 'Eavy Metal paintings...) is part of the process. I might be missunderstanding the meaning of "game development" and it only includes the gaming parts in English, but taking the games as a whole, I would say it's part of the process.
Whatever, I liked reading Andy Chambers and Robin Dews talking about obscure wargames that were unknown in Spain
I despise the idea that is entrenched in many people's heads that you can only play one game at a time. Multiple games are good, they play different, they have a different design philosophy, and different art style. It's not a case of either/or, and especially in a skirmish game like this. Don't let the Infinity thread turn into a mindless disregard for all other games, play both or even more games. We don't want to turn the thread like many Warmachine discussions where one talks of how the game is better, more tactical, has better models, better prices, and needs moar skillz than every other game of every genre. (I'm not saying all Warmachine players are like that, it's just the example of "one true gameism" I see the most)
Don't decide which game is better than which, just play both. Infinity is a skirmish game, you can play it and 40k, Warmachine, and historicals all at the same time. I get tired of seeing "one true gameism", just because one game is good, does not mean every other game from before is bad. I especially hate the mutually exclusive games mentality when people are comparing such completely different games, it an example of an apples to oranges argument.
Yes but some people thinks like that because of other reasons like money or space. I like a lot of games, but I actually play very few, 40k and Infinity. I have an Escher gang, a Wood Elves BB team and lots of minis unpainted, waiting for the chance of a game. But I've been a fan for a long time. Starting a new system for some people is a PITA, or they even can't afford it without selling their older stuff.
Osyr wrote:I despise the idea that is entrenched in many people's heads that you can only play one game at a time. Multiple games are good, they play different, they have a different design philosophy, and different art style. It's not a case of either/or, and especially in a skirmish game like this. Don't let the Infinity thread turn into a mindless disregard for all other games, play both or even more games. We don't want to turn the thread like many Warmachine discussions where one talks of how the game is better, more tactical, has better models, better prices, and needs moar skillz than every other game of every genre. (I'm not saying all Warmachine players are like that, it's just the example of "one true gameism" I see the most)
Don't decide which game is better than which, just play both. Infinity is a skirmish game, you can play it and 40k, Warmachine, and historicals all at the same time. I get tired of seeing "one true gameism", just because one game is good, does not mean every other game from before is bad. I especially hate the mutually exclusive games mentality when people are comparing such completely different games, it an example of an apples to oranges argument.
It is like: -"I like chocolate ice-cream and I spend the whole day saying why chocolate is the best flavour. I never try any other ice-cream flavour and I continue bitching about strawberry, vanila, banana, mango and straciatella because they are worst, and they taste bad, and people who enjoy those are idiots. I will keep on having chocolate for years until I die."
BobbaFett wrote:Hush Hush: John Blanche is an Infinity fan and he has a PanOceania Army painted by Angel Giraldez.
You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games.
Actually, I read it as quite the opposite. Looks like Bobbafett is illustrating that even someone as entrenched in WH40K as John Blanche has found love for Infinity.
Which still goes to Brook's point of "You make it sound like people can't enjoy other games."
It's well-known that the GW studio guys don't exclusively play GW games. Whether it's the Perry brothers and their love for historical gaming or this new tidbit of John Blanche enjoying Infinity--it's a big who cares?
People like what they like. The studio members are not the company itself, and it's not damning or supporting one system or another--it's individuals enjoying what they enjoy.
Another one would "NO WAY, Jervis wrote historical rules* and they aren't for Warhams Historical?!?!?"
* Blackpowder with former GW employee Rick Priestly, who are both quite the big names on the historical scene and perhaps even bigger players of that than GW's games.
I like the Traktor Mul. I prefer the concept art's missile boxes, but the shipping ones aren't bad. My Those pylons they're mounted on look a little weak, though.
The concept art says "Uragan MRL". Traktor Muls can have another MRL called Katyusha. Maybe the painted one is equipped with a Katyusha and the Traktor kit includes both options.
The real-world Katyusha doesn't really look like that model though; Katyushas have launch rails, not launch tubes. The real-world Uragan looks like that model and less like the concept art.
Either way, it's a good distinction between two types of Traktor Muls if they kept the missile systems distinct. It's fantasy after all.
Ok, so...
With this Traktor Mul almost all factions are getting Baggage remotes...
ALEPH has the Probots.
Haqqislam has the Kameels
Nomads have the Salyut Zonds
and PanOceania will get the Mulebot. The concept design was leaked in this Holo-Ad by Micro Art Studio, they collaborate with CB making terrain, so...
Yu Jing is still waiting for their Pangguling...
With this in mind, i guess that when the campaign book comes out, the Baggage drones will be crucial in the development of... you know, using resources and backup the soldiers and that stuff...
The new releases lately, and the general aesthetic of the minis (plus I have been watching tonnes of anime) means that I am goint to start getting a Pan Oceana force. Plus the cool terrain from MAS is going to make the games look good too once I get enough of it.
You know, I see the anime-influence in the concept art, but not so much in the miniatures themselves. They don't have silly exaggerated features or any of the stuff that makes me hate anime.
It has a really "clean" SciFi look that distinguishes it from the grimdark Warhammer and the Soot+WoW-ish Warmahordes and the pulp-horror/victorian Malifaux. It's more like a miniatures version of Equilibrium, Minority Report, Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, and similar movies.
Absolutionis wrote:You know, I see the anime-influence in the concept art, but not so much in the miniatures themselves. They don't have silly exaggerated features or any of the stuff that makes me hate anime.
It has a really "clean" SciFi look that distinguishes it from the grimdark Warhammer and the Soot+WoW-ish Warmahordes and the pulp-horror/victorian Malifaux. It's more like a miniatures version of Equilibrium, Minority Report, Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, and similar movies.
I hear you, but the stuff I have been watching is the more modern high end stuff like Appleseed Deus Ex/Evangelion/Sky Crawlers. It's more about the aesthetic of the mechs and integration, and less so about the exageration that can be common place in some anime. It's the qualty of the minis that I like, having seen them at Maelstrom, and the stuff one of my mates has picked up.
There is very little in the range that I turn my nose up at, and the latest releases look top notch!
I agree Cpt Jack, ive been watching loads of "realistic" anime, like Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell: SAC etc etc and i get the anime influence running through pretty much everything Infinity, which is why i like it so much!
Absolutionis wrote:You know, I see the anime-influence in the concept art, but not so much in the miniatures themselves. They don't have silly exaggerated features or any of the stuff that makes me hate anime.
It has a really "clean" SciFi look that distinguishes it from the grimdark Warhammer and the Soot+WoW-ish Warmahordes and the pulp-horror/victorian Malifaux. It's more like a miniatures version of Equilibrium, Minority Report, Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, and similar movies.
And don't forget Blade Runner!
One of my dreams of creating an Infinity terrain set-up is to have a video screen (using either a smart phone or laptop) with a picture of a geisha, and "a new life awaits you... " playing in the background
I agree though the concept is great, it has definitely got it's own identity in amongst all of the other stuff out there.
I never knew of that game.
Those miniatures are simply awesome and the gameplay seems interesting, might actually start collecting them untill I can get some of my friends to play it as well.
Games Workshop is getting more and more unlikeable with their greedy attitude anyways... -.-
I never knew of that game.
Those miniatures are simply awesome and the gameplay seems interesting, might actually start collecting them untill I can get some of my friends to play it as well.
Games Workshop is getting more and more unlikeable with their greedy attitude anyways... -.-
One of the many reasons to play Infinity, my friend. Corvus Belli have a great relationship to their fans, and make business decisions that are not insulting to our intelligence. Since I started playing Infinity my general rage at GW for nosediving their great product into the ground has subsided- I still play occasionally, but am much less invested/frustrated.
For those picking up a traktor mul, do beware of the double-edged sword that the Baggage rule can present. It means you really, really need to cover yourself against Airborne Deployment (not that you don't already need to cover your hiney if you're playing with GML lists, but I thought it would be good to state for any new players who get into the game because of the cool remotes). Total Reaction remotes are your friends.
Kroothawk wrote:Combined get no Alien baggage mule?
They don't. At moment is human technology only (if you can call it tech )
Actually if you think about it, the CA doesn't need a rule like baggage, they are already more efficient with the Morat and Shasvastii rules as well as Ghost: Mnemotecno. Retreat Threshold increased to 75%? no points can be claimed for that sniper Shasvastii lying dead behind the window of the 4th floor of a building on the other side of the table until the coccoon is destroyed? no need to worry for Loss of Lieutenant? Much more effective than the baggage rule, IMHO.
I try and try but I can't get interested in Infinity. It has great looking models and the rules are good but it doesn't inspire me.
I'll wait patiently for a new faction or something that really draws my attention. I like the Nomads but I have so many 40k models to paint I just don't have the time.
It looks very japanese, very different from all the other robots from other wargames. No gothic grimm dark sci fi at all. Very Infinity.
In this last image you can read that this base body is common for both Dragoes and Jotum Tags.
I love it, totally. It is so different from what the other games offer. This company is always doing their stuff, completely away from 40K. No GW influence at all. They are offering alternative art direction, game, style, colors...
God, I have a crush with this Infinity thing...
In the words of Judge Dredd, 'Drokk!'
Damn that is awesome. Seriously, CB are making stuff that is rivalling the detail level of some of the Gundam models (although made in a completely different way). That paintjob is on an entirely different level as well though, you could be forgiven for thinking these are in a massive scale.
DeffDred wrote:I try and try but I can't get interested in Infinity. It has great looking models and the rules are good but it doesn't inspire me.
I'll wait patiently for a new faction or something that really draws my attention. I like the Nomads but I have so many 40k models to paint I just don't have the time.
Well this is what it comes down to, a design aesthetic will either appeal to you or not! Whatever floats your boat and all that
I love this miniature and most of the Infinity line!! I love the art direction and style that they have gone for and I love the fact that the Dragoes does in fact share the same chassis as the Jotum.
I would love to get my hands on this guy and the O-Yori tag...plus the cutter tag too...though he's starting to show his age a little bit.
DeffDred wrote:I try and try but I can't get interested in Infinity. It has great looking models and the rules are good but it doesn't inspire me.
I'll wait patiently for a new faction or something that really draws my attention. I like the Nomads but I have so many 40k models to paint I just don't have the time.
I used to feel the same about MERCS from MERCS minis. I had the rule book and miniatures, and although I have stopped buying GWWH40K stuff, I still had my large IG army, and it was still my goto game. I finally had the chance to actually play MERCS a few weeks ago.......it was amazing......I mean, really amazing in a way that WH40K can NEVER be. The lesson I learn't at that point was, play a game, don't theorise or listen to other people.....really roll the dice and try it, it's the only way to make an educated judgement.
You say you like the miniatures, you think the rules are good.....so what's left? The fluff? well, to be fair, Infinity fluff is really an extension of our real world history extrapolated into a possible future.....no grim dark or chaos demons etc.....so basically, you can get into the fluff or not, it won't affect game-play (IMHO).
Delephont wrote:... The lesson I learn't at that point was, play a game, don't theorise or listen to other people.....really roll the dice and try it, it's the only way to make an educated judgement.
This is so fething true that I'm gonna paste it as my signature.
I'm actually surprised there are two big boxes this month. I wasn't sure if the Draigos or the Muls would be released, but I guess they went with both.
Everything is on par with being absurdly good quality even with the cliche Infinity trope of guy-standing-on-rock.
That Zero has quite an odd bluge. Now I know why the other Zeroes are posed like that. Abominable Nomands...
Oh, the Traktor Mul are two per box? I don't know why I was expecting one per box, so this makes them sweeter Most of remotes are two per box so, I should have seen this.
Patroclus is not as cool as Achilles, but he couldn't, Achilles is supposed to be a more important character.
I agree with the "He should not be as awesome as Achilles" theory. This miniature is not as impressive. He looks like his pupil, his apprentice. Younger, shorter hair...
Agh, now Ariadna needs a Dozer without Akrylat to be able to field the Traktor Muls, right? Or maybe the mercenary hacker is enough. I'm a bit confused right now :S
Absolutionis wrote:That Zero has quite an odd bulge. Now I know why the other Zeroes are posed like that. Abominable Nomads...
My thoughts exactly. Absolute degenerates :(
That's because we Nomads have the balls other factions lack though I have to say that bulge is actually realistic. A suit that skin tight is going to have a budge there for a cup protecting the guy's junk from getting kicked.
Over an amazing month with 6 releases! The Crane wins for best of the month though, what a stunning model.
You people are kidding, right? Patroclus is miles better than Achilles. Better posed, lacking stupid, physics defying hair and generally more badass. Great model.
Absolutionis wrote:I'm actually surprised there are two big boxes this month. I wasn't sure if the Draigos or the Muls would be released, but I guess they went with both.
Everything is on par with being absurdly good quality even with the cliche Infinity trope of guy-standing-on-rock.
That Zero has quite an odd bluge. Now I know why the other Zeroes are posed like that. Abominable Nomands...
I'm not surprised that there was a big release coming up to xmas!
Some beautiful stuff this month, nice additions for most of the factions!
This might not be the best thread for it - but what do I start with if I want to play Infinity? I guess the rulebook would be nice to have, would a starter box for one of the armies be enough to start playing? I'd like to know what the entry cost for Infinity is.
Alkasyn wrote:This might not be the best thread for it - but what do I start with if I want to play Infinity? I guess the rulebook would be nice to have, would a starter box for one of the armies be enough to start playing? I'd like to know what the entry cost for Infinity is.
The entry cost is very low, because a 6 miniature Starter Pack is perfect to make small skirmishes. The rules can be downloaded from their website so... that's it. A Starter Pack and 3 or 4 d20 dices should be enogh.
Two Starter Packs of different armies, if you want to tease your friends
Alkasyn wrote:This might not be the best thread for it - but what do I start with if I want to play Infinity? I guess the rulebook would be nice to have, would a starter box for one of the armies be enough to start playing? I'd like to know what the entry cost for Infinity is.
The entry cost is very low, because a 6 miniature Starter Pack is perfect to make small skirmishes. The rules can be downloaded from their website so... that's it. A Starter Pack and 3 or 4 d20 dices should be enogh.
Two Starter Packs of different armies, if you want to tease your friends
I understand, not bad that I can get playable armies for what amounts to 2 rhinos+ a combat squad.
Is the rulebook worth buying at all? It costs nearly as much as the starter set, but if all the rules are available on-line then I might as well skip that.
Alkasyn wrote:Is the rulebook worth buying at all? It costs nearly as much as the starter set, but if all the rules are available on-line then I might as well skip that.
The rules found in the .pdf files online are directly ripped from the rulebook itself, and that's maybe 25% of the entire rulebook. The remainder is a plethora of images and fluff that has no necessity for gameplay, but it's a nice extra for storyline reasons. Feel free to skip buying the rulebook for now if you want to simply play.
Also here are rather useful links:
The Infinity Wiki:
http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Home It's a great reference with almost everything being taken verbatim from the rulebooks and the FAQs. It's useful for when you need to search something or anything. It has stats and rules for all the weapons, skills, equipment, etc.
The Infinity Army Creator:
http://infinitythegame.com/dt_army/ It's Army Builder online for the game. Lists all the stats and point costs for all your units. Tells you whether or not your list is valid or not.
One last question -are both of the starters equally viable if I only get the regular rulebook?
I mean, are the rules for Acontecimento Regulars (the new starter, right?) somewhere in the main book, or do I have to buy the regular PanOceania starter pack to get used to the rules? Are the Acontecimento units' rules in that expansion rulebook (Human Sphere) only?
I'm not sure about that. Human Sphere added a LOT of new units to the game, but the sectorial starters use older and newer units. It's quite possible that some of that minis have their stats in one book, and the other minis in the other book. Anyway, if you choose to buy the rulebook, you won't miss anything, because you can still download the Human Sphere rules and all the army lists from the website.
Looking at the miniatures of that Starter Pack, I see it includes 3 Regulars. This minis can use a rule to make "fireteams", and that rule is included in Human Sphere. The expansion features a new way of making armies, by using the Sectorial Armies lists. For example, instead of using the Yu Jing list, you can use the purely Japanese list. But again, this is also available in .pdf and in the wiki.
My advice is: just choose the starter with the minis you think are cooler. Their stats, equipment, rules, you can read it online, despite of having or not having the printed books.
Edit: ok, now I read Absolutionis, all that minis are in the Human Sphere. That shouldn't be a problem anyway.
If you want to get into Infinity you should watch these videos even before reading the rules. This will help you A LOT.
Also, link to the quickstart rules, the best way to begin progresively learning more and more the game mechanics. Quickstart Rules
Also, I´m going to put a link here to the DEVIL TEAM´S INFINITY ARMY 3.0 wich is a very useful army builder site. Also here is the INFINITY WIKI that is a wikipedia of the rules, very useful.
Sectorial Starter Packs Acontecimento Shock Army Starter Pack- 121 Pts. 0 SWC Military Orders Starter Pack- 147Pts. 1,5 SWC Japanese Sectorial Army Starter Pack- 115 Pts. 0SWC
Imperial Service Starter Pack- 178 Pts. 0 SWC Caledonian Highlander Army Starter Pack- 126Pts. 1,5 SWC Hassassin Bahram Starter Pack- 139 Pts. 2,5 SWC Bakunin Jurisdictional Command Starter Pack- 118 Pts- 0,5 SWC Shasvastii Expeditionary Force Starter Pack- 153 Pts. 3,5 SWC Neoterra - Not Released yet
Merovingia- Not Released yet
Qapu Khalqi- Not released yet
Corregidor- Not released yet
Morats- not released yet
Finally, I'll recommend both rulebooks because fluff is awesome in this game and playing without knowing anything about who are these people and why do they fight is missing 40% of the game flavour here.
Hey, thanks, I eventually went with Haqqislam Assasins, since the Arabic background appeals to me, but both PanOceania and Ariadna have some nice models. Seeing as they're all not that expensive, I might actually have more than 1 army I guess
I also bought the basic rulebook, I'll see how good the fluff is and will decide then on whether to expand the force or not (and drag my friends into it )
The Combined Army needs angry space monkeys. It'll totally be a winner.
After all, who doesn't like monkeys?
Umm.. is that a bad joke? Or have you never seen a CA force.
I've seen them, yes. I've got one also sitting in my shopping cart for The Warstore to be ordered when their Black Friday stuff starts up. It's a joke, referencing the fact that Morat faces look vaguely simian.
Kanluwen wrote:
Or for a more sensible post:
I want to know when Corregidor is getting its starter box, and will it include Tomcat and Intruder options which currently do not have models.
It more likely 5 model already out, plus 1 starter box only model.
Which poses a huge problem because there's quite a few gaps in the Corregidor Sectorial Army list, namely there is no "basic" Tomcat model.
I want to know when Corregidor is getting its starter box, and will it include Tomcat and Intruder options which currently do not have models.
[ouote=Noir]
It more likely 5 model already out, plus 1 starter box only model.
Which poses a huge problem because there's quite a few gaps in the Corregidor Sectorial Army list, namely there is no "basic" Tomcat model.
True but with any luck the push back of the new "campain" book and the small new unit count in it, will give them time to get out most of missing models. Then when the "HS2" book is done and out they can focus on the new models.
Hi.
Ravage Magazine has published which miniatures will be the December releases:
- Tokusetsu Butai. The Medic/Engineer for the Japanese Sectorial Army. Yu Jing.
- Zerat with Sniper Rifle. Skirmisher for the Morat Aggression Force. Combined Army.
- Post-Humans Box. ALEPH
- Die Morlock Gruppe Box. Warbands for the Bakunin Jurisdictional Command. Nomads.
- Al Hawwa with Sniper Rifle. Female skirmisher for the Qapu Khalki. Haqqislam.
No images of the miniatures, but the concepts of some of these were leaked during the Essen Spiel'11 in Germany.
I'm excited about having finally the post-humans, but that Morlock box could be awesome.
Hrmh. So the Morlock box is a full squad of Die Morlock Gruppe I assume?
The Post-Humans one is indeed an exciting one. ALEPH is what I ended up deciding to go with, since the Nomad force I want to do would be very difficult to put together without extensive resculpting.
Umm.. is that a bad joke? Or have you never seen a CA force.
As Bobba Fett himself has remarked somewhat amusingly, the Morats are well known for their 'ugly baboon faces' Personally I think they look OK, but agree it is something of a 'marmite' issue (you either like them or hate them!)
Although as a light infantry I think there are few other factions that come close to them, and their morale special rule is a major bonus for anyone including them!
Posthumans are confirmed? Thank God.
I think pretty much everything in Aleph is accounted for aside from the Devabots then, and the HMGDakini is pretty much a good proxy for that.
A "generic" Naga model which is actually firing its gun would be nice. Same with a Dasyu who isn't seemingly recovering from a handstand to fire his rifle...
Alpharius wrote:I'm a big fan of Morats, and I eagerly await their T.A.G., the Raicho!
But yea, I dig the red apes as well, though not quite enough to expand out of my 'Shasvastii + bugs' theme yet. Yaogat LT is looking groovy though, for that MSV my gribblies can't get ...
If we're wishlisting, I'm still hoping for a Shasy missile launcher
I spend a lot of time reading the official forums.
It is obvious that people like Morats when they have helmets on. Here is the reaction when the miniatures are released:
Zerat (She has a helmet)- "Oh, that is a nice looking miniature, I thinking a bout starting a Morat army."
Kurgat (Helmet also)- "So cool, the Morat Army is looking cooler everyday, yeaaaah...." "I will use him with my TAU 40K army."
Yaogat Sniper (No helmet)- "Yeah, the baboon guy, yeah... his ass is probably also red and he pops it out for the females gnah hahahah!!"
CB should rescultp all the existing morats and put helmets for the whole Morat army.
About the Morlock box... It will probably be the 4 multipart box as they are doing it usually with warbands and fireteams. 2 copies of 2 diferent bodies with 2 diferent sets of arms and heads for them, 4 miniatures. And these will probably replace the old blister.
I reeeeeally like the Crane rank agent, though I'm a little sad he looks so.... grand.
Hsien are supposed to outrank this guy but his gigantic coat and are armor puts them to shame.
BobbaFett wrote:I spend a lot of time reading the official forums.
It is obvious that people like Morats when they have helmets on. Here is the reaction when the miniatures are released:
Zerat (She has a helmet)- "Oh, that is a nice looking miniature, I thinking a bout starting a Morat army."
Kurgat (Helmet also)- "So cool, the Morat Army is looking cooler everyday, yeaaaah...." "I will use him with my TAU 40K army."
Yaogat Sniper (No helmet)- "Yeah, the baboon guy, yeah... his ass is probably also red and he pops it out for the females gnah hahahah!!"
CB should rescultp all the existing morats and put helmets for the whole Morat army.
About the Morlock box... It will probably be the 4 multipart box as they are doing it usually with warbands and fireteams. 2 copies of 2 diferent bodies with 2 diferent sets of arms and heads for them, 4 miniatures. And these will probably replace the old blister.
I hope they don't I prefer the none helmeted Morat myself.
Well this is the thing, it is hard to get a gauge on what people actually like or don't like.
I remember reading that someone was complaining about the Daktari doctor (cat doctor for Nomads) to one of the top guys at CB, and saying that this kind of model had no place in Infinity and why did they sell it, and he replied by saying the cat doctor model has been a regular top 5 seller within the entire range since it went on sale!
So I think there must be plenty of people who like the 'ugly baboon face' look. I personally think they look quite cool, and can help to emphasise the alien style of the Combined Army. But maybe if some more helmeted figures go on sale, then at least CA players will have the option.
I keep hoping for news of a Jotum, more than anything I want a model for that beasty, but the Dragoe looks awesome and will make a workable standin, though a total PITA to paint, it looks much more difficult than the Cutter.
BobbaFett wrote:CB should rescultp all the existing morats and put helmets for the whole Morat army.
You know, they wouldn't look nearly as bad if their faces were not painted bright, primary red. Even a more vaired and natural red tone would be better. Without that, the focus would be less on their meh faces and more on their pose etc. In the meantime (and since Morat resculpts are not likely anytime soon), you could easily GS-cast masked faces off of other models. It would be a really slick and probably easy conversion.
About the Morlock box... It will probably be the 4 multipart box as they are doing it usually with warbands and fireteams. 2 copies of 2 diferent bodies with 2 diferent sets of arms and heads for them, 4 miniatures. And these will probably replace the old blister.
Wait- do you mean they will replace both the old models, which will not be available anymore? The female Morlock is great- I might have to snap her up before she goes OOP. The dude was definitely headswap candidate numero uno, though.
I've seen that Ángel Giraldez has posted some sort of hint/preview of the latest minis he has painted on his blog. He paint for Corvus Belli (so, Infinity), and i think that for Privateer Press as well...
Yu Jing tends to have dry ash bases. It looks like four of those bases in the bottom picture are theirs.
Ariadna and PanO have grass on the base usually, and none of those minis have grass.
Nomads have orange metal, Combined have alien blue, and Haqqislam have deadlands. Can't see any of that there either.
There's a large model in the top right. Could be a TAG.
But yeah, definitely Aleph for those four. I really hope the Posthuman near the front isn't doing a jolly schoolgirl leg-up skip. I really really hope this won't be Aleph's version of a Daktari.
If you will lend me a can opener, I have some worms-in-a-can.
Spoiler:
On a less Daktari-note, rumor on the forums says that the French Ravage Magazine reports the following for December 2011:
- 4 Morlock (Nomads)
- Tokesotsu (Yu Jing)
- 4 Posthumans (Aleph)
- Zerat with Sniper Rifle (Combined)
- al-Hawwa with Sniper Rifle (Haqqislam)
Absolutionis wrote:If you will lend me a can opener, I have some worms-in-a-can.
Spoiler:
On a less Daktari-note, rumor on the forums says that the French Ravage Magazine reports the following for December 2011:
- 4 Morlock (Nomads)
- Tokesotsu (Yu Jing)
- 4 Posthumans (Aleph)
- Zerat with Sniper Rifle (Combined)
- al-Hawwa with Sniper Rifle (Haqqislam)
Ninja'd by weeks by Alpharius it seems.
You sure it was me doin' the Ninja?
I don't remember any of that stuff being reported by me?
God he is so evil with that game. He does the Anima Tactics stuff too, so now that I'm into that as well those pics are double torture.
I'm guessing the upper right is an Iguana (wishful thinking), but I have NO clue what the lower right could be. That is a rather crazy shape to be Infinity unless it's an insane dynamic figure which the tears would flow.
On the lower pic the model on the lower right is the Prowler with ADHL I think...
Can't say I'm a fan of the Mk1 Proxy, but I'm relieved it's not doing the schoolgirl leg-up skip that it looked like initially. Either way, it's close enough to be somewhat of a disappointment.
I'm liking the sniper and the spitfire models, but I was hoping they'd have some sort of theme that tied them together. As it stands, the three models look like completely different units with nothing tying them together.
The Mk1 is wearing slutty civvies and being clumsy.
The Mk2 is wearing a helmet and hex-clothing and being casual.
The Mk3 is wearing heavy armor and being authoritative.
I would have loved them if they tied them together somehow. Regardless, Mr. Midas-touch Giraldez will find a way. Worst case, I'll have to paint them a slightly different scheme and write numbers on their thighs or something.
I wonder if the Mk2 will have a Hacker-arm option.
I also find it a strange relief that the Mk2 and the Mk3 Proxies are the only female models in the entire line that don't have heels. Even the Assassins have heels.
What is that fourth Aleph base from Giraldez's teaser?
For those that aren't awe of the fluff behind these...
In Infinity a device called a "cube" has been invented that once implanted into the brain it records all memories and the essenence of what makes tha person who they are. When the person dies they await a new body to be made for them and during that time they can download into an MK Proxy to have the experiance of being in a conflict.
Now imagine yourself in a fake body without any real fear of being "killed", you would basically be the equivalent of a person playing a first person shooter.
What's one of the most popular things in most FPS? Looks. Why is the MK1 in a skirt? because she can be. She isn't heavily armored so her avatar might as well look good and the "purse" is a medical kit with style lol. Why does the MK3 have crazy sailor moon hair? Because it looks cool.
BlueDagger wrote:For those that aren't awe of the fluff behind these...
In Infinity a device called a "cube" has been invented that once implanted into the brain it records all memories and the essenence of what makes tha person who they are. When the person dies they await a new body to be made for them and during that time they can download into an MK Proxy to have the experiance of being in a conflict.
Now imagine yourself in a fake body without any real fear of being "killed", you would basically be the equivalent of a person playing a first person shooter.
What's one of the most popular things in most FPS? Looks. Why is the MK1 in a skirt? because she can be. She isn't heavily armored so her avatar might as well look good and the "purse" is a medical kit with style lol. Why does the MK3 have crazy sailor moon hair? Because it looks cool.
Yeah, but my point about the female Proxies was that ALEPH is supposed to use both male and female Proxies. The Posthumans entry in the book is even written about a male Proxy, with a photo of a female Posthuman/Proxy underneath.
It just irks me that it's another case of seemingly "pandering" to a certain crowd, much like the Daktari or the Vixen. I could live with it on the Deva Functionary model, since Functionaries are supposed to be 'shaped' to interact with specific locales. Whether it's a middle-aged, kindly and wise looking male/female to be a negotiator or a strict matriarch clad in heavy armor wielding a battle axe--there's a purpose to it. The Proxies just feel like it was fanservice.
Well kinda to be expected, they wanted to make a sculpts that the majority of their fan base would enjoy. They had concept art of a female so they went that route with the mini. Eventually there will be a male sculpt of these as most commonly agree there will be an expansion of the GS: Ghost rules.
The all female proxies doesn't seem that odd to me. If there's one thing I know about male videogamers, it's that often their main character is male, but as soon as they think no one's looking they "try out" the female character options, especially if the female character is hot. I can imagine a "temporary" body working very similarly.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm sure the majority of their fanbase would also appreciate a male sculpt.
There's no way I'm alone in this.
Considering the two Asura models are essentially nude, there's a rather engaging thread going on in the Infinity forums regarding male Asura.
Then again, there is also a thread-petition going on in support of a female Wulver for the opposite (or perhaps the same?) reason.
JOHIRA wrote:The all female proxies doesn't seem that odd to me. If there's one thing I know about male videogamers, it's that often their main character is male, but as soon as they think no one's looking they "try out" the female character options, especially if the female character is hot. I can imagine a "temporary" body working very similarly.
I usually look down on these people as desperate degenerates, but sometimes it's unavoidable. All my Guild Wars characters are male except the one class where I couldn't stand the look of the flamboyant harlequin look of the male.
Then again, if anyone has seen the movie "Gamer", Valletta's character is essentially a human proxy being controlled by a rather vile male:
NSFW:
Personally I love that Sniper model, will have to take it's place alongside my Haqq Islam Lasiq sniper and Nomad Reverend Morias as a sexy Infinity sniper
I think it is quite a difficult line that CB tread in terms of appealing to the standard 'future tech' testosterone fuelled sausage-fest, while at the same time that slightly kitsch, off-centre anime sensibility. I think for the most part they tread that line quite well, although some models go too far for some people (the Daktari for instance, although I reluctantly bought it to paint for someone and ended up actually quite enjoying painting it )
That Daktari though fits the flavor of the Nomads rather well. They're rebellious deviants with a love of manipulating genes and dying skin/hair/etc just for fun. Nomads' version of "sexy" is sluttiness and sexual deviance through dog-people.
Aleph is all about uniformity, structure, and srsbiz order. A happy-clumsy schoolgirl with a purse is not a convincing "doctor". Aleph's version of "sexy" is an unsettling and 'perfect' prudishness. Their males and females are 'perfect' because they can buy or craft or grow these things.
Compare their characters: Aleph's moviestar glamor model Achilles and Nomads' goofy monkey de Castro.
Absolutionis wrote:I also find it a strange relief that the Mk2 and the Mk3 Proxies are the only female models in the entire line that don't have heels. Even the Assassins have heels.
You're actually wrong - on both counts. The Mk2 and 3's do have thick heels - take another look! But at the same time, you clearly need to spend more time looking at the Yu Jing range (which, as it happens, is one of the few ranges where a fair portion of the female characters lack irregularly ample bosoms). A few examples:
Oh wow. I'm actually pleased. I've usually avoided the Yu Jing line just out of preference (not a fan of ninjas). I didn't even know that one of the Aragoto Senkenbutai was female at all; it's even hard to tell from those images. IMHO, that's the way a miniatures line should be.
Absolutionis wrote:That Daktari though fits the flavor of the Nomads rather well. They're rebellious deviants with a love of manipulating genes and dying skin/hair/etc just for fun. Nomads' version of "sexy" is sluttiness and sexual deviance through dog-people.
I thought that was more Bakunin than the Nomads at large.
Aleph is all about uniformity, structure, and srsbiz order. A happy-clumsy schoolgirl with a purse is not a convincing "doctor". Aleph's version of "sexy" is an unsettling and 'perfect' prudishness. Their males and females are 'perfect' because they can buy or craft or grow these things.
Not just that, they're the "pinnacle of humanity"...even though they're not entirely human.
Compare their characters: Aleph's moviestar glamor model Achilles and Nomads' goofy monkey de Castro.
Again, I think that's more of a Bakunin thing. While de Castro can go for multiple Nomad factions, I've personally envisaged characters from Corregidor to be more like Senor Massacre, and Tunguska's to be a bit of a Jin-Roh/Akira feel for them.
Really. I just want a decent looking ALEPH sniper, preferably male. The one(soon to be two) snipers are both female and both really doing nothing to do with sniping. More striking poses.
Absolutionis wrote:Oh wow. I'm actually pleased. I've usually avoided the Yu Jing line just out of preference (not a fan of ninjas). I didn't even know that one of the Aragoto Senkenbutai was female at all; it's even hard to tell from those images. IMHO, that's the way a miniatures line should be.
Thanks for the correction.
Heh, no worries - I thought exactly the same as you, until I looked at the Yu Jing models. It was actually that which tipped me over the edge into Infinity (until then I'd been too put off by the, er, ever-so-slightly creepy female figures dotting the other armies. Particularly the uniformly awful female Ariadnans). And yes, I wasn't sure whether the second Aragoto was a woman until I got the models myself (it's the one on the right, as you probably guessed) - they're just really nicely done, for the most part. Though, admittedly, their combi-rifle equipped Keisotsu and all of their HI (and their lone MI) do go in for the heeled-up power armour look, with the exception of Ko Dali, who sadly makes up for it in every other way (skin tight armour? Check. Impractically well-endowed? Check. Ugly model? Check). But when it comes to the rest of their LI and skirmishers, practical designs all the way. And, well, I'm able to forgive the heels when the figure is encased in armour, on top of which a huge trenchcoat, and cutting a mean pose.
BlueDagger wrote:For those that aren't awe of the fluff behind these...
In Infinity a device called a "cube" has been invented that once implanted into the brain it records all memories and the essenence of what makes tha person who they are. When the person dies they await a new body to be made for them and during that time they can download into an MK Proxy to have the experiance of being in a conflict.
Now imagine yourself in a fake body without any real fear of being "killed", you would basically be the equivalent of a person playing a first person shooter.
.
That's unfortunately very unaccurate. Reread your Rulebook and Human Sphere book, because it seems you didn't properly grasp the background.
While many people has access to a cube (in PanOceania is a right given to any citizen and in YuJIng is a right allowed to first class citizens) very few people has the right to come back to life in a new body, as it's a very expensive process which only the most wealthy persons can afford to. The most usual destination for the most part of the extracted cubes is to end up stored in a cube bank, where from time to time the family can pay a visit and awake the stored personality of the deceased. However In PanOceania, the concensus between Aleph and Church and in YuJing, the consensus between the State and Aleph allow the most useful and relevant persons to be granted the resurrection, people like brilliant scientists, politicians and sport/spectacle superstars. Also there's a lottery which allows fortunate enough common people to be granted the process after their death. There are other ways to be granted the live after death, as it's been said as long as you have money and the right contacts you can pay for it. Therefore a lightning visit to the dark suburbs of Praxis laboratories in the Nomad spaceship of Bakunin is a fast way to get you a prosthetic body for more less pennies than usual as long as you're willing to face the risks involving the visit and the no guarantee of your new body. Or relevant practicants of the Aristeia can get the sponsor of companies to pay for the multiple times they are going to need the services of the resurrection process.
Still those fortunate enough to be choosen by Aleph are granted the Post Humanity. Here lies the difference with a normal resurrection process. The post human is allowed to its data to be stored in Aleph, therefore inow they 're bonded to Aleph. Now it's data lives in the net and can travel through the whole Maya net at light speed, being able to discharge its personality in any prothestic body in nanoseconds. So if the body is destroyed it can return to the safe place of the net. It's usual for many Post Humans to become Aleph agents as now they 're part of Aleph.
BlueDagger wrote:For those that aren't awe of the fluff behind these...
In Infinity a device called a "cube" has been invented that once implanted into the brain it records all memories and the essenence of what makes tha person who they are. When the person dies they await a new body to be made for them and during that time they can download into an MK Proxy to have the experiance of being in a conflict.
Now imagine yourself in a fake body without any real fear of being "killed", you would basically be the equivalent of a person playing a first person shooter.
.
That's unfortunately very unaccurate. Reread your Rulebook and Human Sphere book, because it seems you didn't properly grasp the background.
While many people has access to a cube (in PanOceania is a right given to any citizen and in YuJIng is a right allowed to first class citizens) very few people has the right to come back to life in a new body, as it's a very expensive process which only the most wealthy persons can afford to. The most usual destination for the most part of the extracted cubes is to end up stored in a cube bank, where from time to time the family can pay a visit and awake the stored personality of the deceased. However In PanOceania, the concensus between Aleph and Church and in YuJing, the consensus between the State and Aleph allow the most useful and relevant persons to be granted the resurrection, people like brilliant scientists, politicians and sport/spectacle superstars. Also there's a lottery which allows fortunate enough common people to be granted the process after their death. There are other ways to be granted the live after death, as it's been said as long as you have money and the right contacts you can pay for it. Therefore a lightning visit to the dark suburbs of Praxis laboratories in the Nomad spaceship of Bakunin is a fast way to get you a prosthetic body for more less pennies than usual as long as you're willing to face the risks involving the visit and the no guarantee of your new body. Or relevant practicants of the Aristeia can get the sponsor of companies to pay for the multiple times they are going to need the services of the resurrection process.
Still those fortunate enough to be choosen by Aleph are granted the Post Humanity. Here lies the difference with a normal resurrection process. The post human is allowed to its data to be stored in Aleph, therefore inow they 're bonded to Aleph. Now it's data lives in the net and can travel through the whole Maya net at light speed, being able to discharge its personality in any prothestic body in nanoseconds. So if the body is destroyed it can return to the safe place of the net. It's usual for many Post Humans to become Aleph agents as now they 're part of Aleph.
hm looks like I need to sit down and read my book in more depth and quit skimming lol.
To be honest, I've seen this "idea" enacted a few times for different sci fi settings, it's used in EVE where the Capsuleers come back in cloned bodies, and it was also the main theme in the new BattleStar Galactica where the Cilons get rebooted after death.
I wish CB had taken it one step further though, and straight up found the fluff to show that the "thing" coming back is actually you and not just a copy of what you were. In all the settings where this alternative to "immortality" is expounded, they all fail to realise that death is still death for the original version, and in fact it's only the copies that really get to enjoy the benefits of this digital rebirth.
Both the resurrection via cloning and memory storage in cells/cubes, and the personality download into the post human/post physical Aleph seem to be inspired in Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga. In this setting, resurrection has nothing traumatic about it: Even if the process might raise some philosophical questions, these are never explored. Characters just go along and live their (endless) lives, the only question being when to call it quits.
Fun enough, most of the inspiration for the Ariadna faction seems to come from Hamilton's works as well.
Interesting stuff in there, to 'help out' 40K players looking at Infinity.
Having finally dug out my password again...
Part two is up at http://wargamingtrader.com/infinity/intro2 and covers game mechanics, with a lot more comparisons to 40k than the first article. Part 1 has also been updated with all the faction YouTube videos from Corvus Belli.
Agent_Tremolo - hardly, Hamilton came very late to the idea of backups & downloadable personalities in SF. Apart from anything else, the original Ghost in the Shell comics are 13 years older and Infinity itself isn't much younger than the Commonwealth Saga.
Yeah, Hamilton's SF in general is very derivative. I have to admit I've not read the latest stuff, having been utterly disappointed with the bad science and worse storytelling of the Night's Dawn trilogy.
Well I shan't derail the thread here too much, but -- Night's Dawn problems:
Basic O-level physics fail in Book 1 (can't remember quite what, but it was along the lines of "no, no, our nanotech can't deal with this particular problem, because the problem is on the molecular scale"!)
Whole premise based on very shaky, dated science (Tipler's Omega point stuff -- not as interesting as, say, the Boltzman brain stuff that Stephen Baxter uses in some of his SF).
Usual Hamilton sexism -- females are basically either lovely and virginal and princess like, or ultimate badasses, or both, but either way they totally fall for the hero...
...who is, like, a starship captain and rebel and genius and expert combatant and irresistible to women... Mary Sue, much? The author really needs to get out more!
Three thick books, of which at least the first 400 pages of each are basically filler, to tell a story that finishes with a (SPOILER of an already CRAP BOOK) literal deus ex machina? The whole universe is at peril, but it's OK, 'cos as long as we ask God, he'll just sort it all out? I felt like all the time I'd spent being bored during the 3 books was even more wasted at the final revelation. :(
If you want really good posthuman / uploaded as software fiction, then check out Alastair Reynolds, or Dan Simmons's _Ilium_, or Greg Egan's _Permutation City_.
Delephont wrote:Yeah, but if you want to read really bad books, just head over to the Black Library.....ohh.
Aw, c'mon- Abnett's stuff is alright, ADB's stuff is readable, and there's a lot of decent, unapologetic pulp in there too.
Back on the infinity tip, I rather like the murkiness about whether a reloaded copy (for a Cube or other non-implanted forms of backup) is really the original person or not.
Also interesting is that one's backup is still accessible even if it's not incarnated into a new body. People go visit their dead relatives, and the dead seem to be able to control their investments from beyond the grave. Eventually (after 115 years on average the fluff says) many can buy a body. But even that figure, and the whole discussion of backups, is supposedly taken from a source of questionable accuracy. [The Infinity fluff mostly takes the part of excerpts from newscasts or academic reports etc.- so there's a bias in much of the "factual" info. In fact, some of it has obvious spin or falsification in it, which is really cool IMO.]. The incarnation-market is actually getting more clogged-up according to the fluff in the book, so perhaps it's just not possible for any but the privileged or lucky to get reincarnated.
Interesting, either way. I love how Infinity allows it's core narrative to be given by sources that may be unreliable. It really adds to the cloak-and-dagger feel and the multitudinous possibilities of the background. And given that abilities in the game are actually in a pretty narrow band and troop-type variance is really tightly controlled, very diverse fluff helps balance out the feel of an otherwise very tightly-scripted experience.
Delephont wrote:
I wish CB had taken it one step further though, and straight up found the fluff to show that the "thing" coming back is actually you and not just a copy of what you were. In all the settings where this alternative to "immortality" is expounded, they all fail to realise that death is still death for the original version, and in fact it's only the copies that really get to enjoy the benefits of this digital rebirth.
This gets into a bunch of wacky philosophical digressions, and there's some science fiction authors who've handled it better than I can (Recommend Charles Stross, Ken Mcleod, and others) but:
A lot of this comes down to how you define 'alive.' Is someone who flatlined and was brought back a different person as they were 'dead' for a while? What about amnesia that wipes someone's last few months? If we suppose the technology of near-flawless 'uploading' of someone's mind, the tech has a lot of really interesting ramifications.
From the POV of the uploaded, there's a continuity. They sat down in a chair, had the process, woke up in whatever body or virtual environment they were copied to. There may have been a 'time skip' but those happen to normal live people (get drunk, injured and put in a coma, sleep etc.)
Of course, if a person has the ability to copy themselves, run multiple copies, and do things with them, there's all sorts of rights issues our current system can't handle. Saying "Thou Shalt Not" is probably going to fail: people love the idea of immortality (even if it involved being copied into a cloned young body) and a related idea (If you can run someone in a virtual space, run them at faster than realtime so they can innovate and think up clever ideas faster).
Have I died every time I've gone to sleep? I lost consciousness for hours... My mind was doing things I was not aware of... Am I the same person that went to sleep?
Delephont wrote:
I wish CB had taken it one step further though, and straight up found the fluff to show that the "thing" coming back is actually you and not just a copy of what you were. In all the settings where this alternative to "immortality" is expounded, they all fail to realise that death is still death for the original version, and in fact it's only the copies that really get to enjoy the benefits of this digital rebirth.
This gets into a bunch of wacky philosophical digressions, and there's some science fiction authors who've handled it better than I can (Recommend Charles Stross, Ken Mcleod, and others) but:
A lot of this comes down to how you define 'alive.' Is someone who flatlined and was brought back a different person as they were 'dead' for a while? What about amnesia that wipes someone's last few months? If we suppose the technology of near-flawless 'uploading' of someone's mind, the tech has a lot of really interesting ramifications.
From the POV of the uploaded, there's a continuity. They sat down in a chair, had the process, woke up in whatever body or virtual environment they were copied to. There may have been a 'time skip' but those happen to normal live people (get drunk, injured and put in a coma, sleep etc.)
Of course, if a person has the ability to copy themselves, run multiple copies, and do things with them, there's all sorts of rights issues our current system can't handle. Saying "Thou Shalt Not" is probably going to fail: people love the idea of immortality (even if it involved being copied into a cloned young body) and a related idea (If you can run someone in a virtual space, run them at faster than realtime so they can innovate and think up clever ideas faster).
Have I died every time I've gone to sleep? I lost consciousness for hours... My mind was doing things I was not aware of... Am I the same person that went to sleep?
It's a shame there's not a "Buy you a beer" smilie, I'd use it right now, I bet you're an interesting person to sit down and chew the fat with
I like you're take on the idea, and while it doesn't answer an impossible question, it does give the concept some foundation in our current "reality".....I applaud you sir!
Thanks! I'm usually a bit more grounded, but I have been reading a lot of stuff that ties into this of later.
It's a weird topic, and I'm willing to bet that if it goes from theoretical to a real issue governments will probably have a lot of trouble with it.
If you're interested in the whole concept, I recommend Charles Stross' Accelerando as a neat introduction. it's a book of linked short stories that basically go from sometime Real Soon Now to a ways down the road.
(There's a follow-up titled 'Glasshouse' that is good, but is a bit rougher read as there's a lot going on, and some of it not-very-nice.)
Do you mean Ken Macleod of Fall Revolution notorioty? Because that is EXACTLY how I picture the world of Infinity pre-space immigration. And it's a great series.
Do you mean Ken Macleod of Fall Revolution notorioty? Because that is EXACTLY how I picture the world of Infinity pre-space immigration. And it's a great series.
Yes, spelling it wrong because I was too lazy to look it up. Amusingly, I just finished the 4th book in that series at lunch today. I don't agree with much of his politics, but I respect that he seems to challenge and consider his viewpoint throughout the books.
My favourite take on the "is it still you" issue comes from the concept that the "you" is not the physical body, it's a pattern that moves through space and time, that at least starts out as an emergent property of one's physical body and its activities. Consciousness is interrupted at least once a day by sleep, and occasionally by other means. Even the physical form alters considerably -- it is constantly being worn out and renewed, so that the "you" of birth shares only a small number of cells with the "you" of old age.
The paradox of the Ship of Theseus is relevant here:
One of my favourite emergent concepts is "what if there were two yous?" -- mentioned in that Wiki article, with Hobbes's concept that the discarded portions of the 1st ship could be used to make another, causing confusion as to which is the "true" ship. There have been some great stories based on that concept, from Andre Norton's classic SF novel "Android at Arms", to the Justin Bialy stories in Autoduel Quarterly (you guys will remember the great wargame Car Wars, no doubt -- clones are a reality in that, and one of the Bialy stories makes use of the "what if" of having 2 clones active simultaneously), to that Farscape sequence, to the amazing Calvino novella "The Cloven Viscount" in which both halves of a man bisected by a cannoball are repaired...
Anyway -- if you treat consciousness as an interruptible, renewable pattern, then it's possible for it to be revived at a later date after one version was destroyed, just like you'd go back to a backup of a corrupted document. If it's not a pattern, what is it? Intuition demands some kind of connection to the physical body, but your body isn't you -- it's a load of processed food, arranged into patterns by your parents' DNA, from which "you" arise and emerge.
) and their fluff is very cool, they could have become really awesome miniatures.
) ... And the new prowler has one-upped his buddy, which is hard to do considering how nice the first prowler is.
