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Post by: kronk
Exciting times, indeed!
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Post by: nudibranch
Hmm, these look interesting. Always liked the look of heresy special weapons. Would of liked to see Mk.3 instead of 4 though. Oh also. anyone think those upgrade packs that seemed kinda redundant (specifically in the case of the SW, BA and DA ones) may have some purpose with this?
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Post by: Rayvon
Not sure whats going on with the legs, they don't look the same as the FW ones.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
Awh yaas!
I needed me some plastic crack.
While I know many would prefer MKII/III, I'm not complaining - MKIV has always been my favourite armour mark.
Also obligatory inb4 more expensive than FW.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Rayvon wrote:Not sure whats going on with the legs, they don't look the same as the FW ones.
They're the same design, just in the usual GW squatting pose.
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
Its just more marines? Really not seeing whats exciting about this?
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Plus it's exciting because no one actually seriously believed these rumors, and then they turned out to be true... (at least in part)
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.
Because for those of us making 30k forces, this could save us quite a bit of money.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
 Zywus wrote:Slightly dissapointing to see that the plastics keep doing all legs in that classic semi-squatting pose. (I suppose it might be a necessity for plastic molding and not an artistic choice).
Because squatting Space Marines allow GW to claim they're 28mm scale. Marines that actually stand straight are 32mm.
To address an earlier comment about giving money to FW instead of GW, in an ideal world, someone in charge would notice that, if part X of their business is growing and gets higher customer satisfaction ratings than part Y of that business, then they should try to learn from what part X is doing right. While this works in many other companies, I doubt GW is smart enough to do so. I really hope they leave all the writing to FW.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pfft, Mk3 armor is prettier with all the gold trim you can put on the armor plates. That's what half my EC are in Mk3. But, mine are loyalist, so that would be why they have more of the older armor.
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
 ImAGeek wrote: Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.
Because for those of us making 30k forces, this could save us quite a bit of money.
That's true and a good point.
Can I play 40K vs 30K?
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Post by: ImAGeek
They're not designed to be played together but they aren't overly unbalanced against each other. 30k is at a disadvantage at smaller games, the list comes into its own at 2,500pts plus really.
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Post by: Gashrog
The fact that the sprue is PURE Mk4 suggests they are operating on the original fluff which was that Mk4 was incompatible with earlier technology. Said fluff also stated that Mk3 was a specialist suit unsuitable for general use, Mk2 was the standard suit until replaced by Mk4 - a process described as being half complete at the outbreak of the Heresy. So Mk4 makes sense for first rate front line units early in the Heresy.
I do hope to god they bring out some Mk3 however.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
You can, yes. (at least, FW's 30K. Unsure if GW's version will allow you)
FW has said in one of their 30K FaQ and Erratas that you can but to be aware that 30K has been balanced against 30K, not 40K.
From what I've heard the balance between 30K and 40K armies isn't as bad as balance between 40K and 40K in general, so it shouldn't be too bad.
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Post by: nudibranch
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
From what I've heard the balance between 30K and 40K armies isn't as bad as balance between 40K and 40K in general, so it shouldn't be too bad.
To be fair, that's mostly because 30K is slightly different space marines vs. other slightly different space marines + psuedo-Imperial Guard and the Mechanicum. There's simply not as much to balance.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Lupercal!
Eifragilisticexpialidocios!
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Post by: ImAGeek
nudibranch wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:
From what I've heard the balance between 30K and 40K armies isn't as bad as balance between 40K and 40K in general, so it shouldn't be too bad.
To be fair, that's mostly because 30K is slightly different space marines vs. other slightly different space marines + psuedo-Imperial Guard and the Mechanicum. There's simply not as much to balance.
Well the Mechanicum are a vastly different list. FW actually put a modicum of effort in where GW don't. GW can't balance CSM vs SM for example, or look at SM and DA in 6th...
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Post by: Formosa
There are 2 types when it comes to 30 vs 40k
The first group: cry cheese instantly, usually the anti fw crowd hangs out here but not always, they have "heard" 30k is over powered "what do you mean you can take 10 plasma guns in a squad, that's cheese!" but have not actually played a game, haven't played for long enough to know any better, or been poisoned by one of the anti forge world crowd.
The second group: generally don't care, they are happy just to play a game and will play almost anything, they also have had experience playing the game for at least a little while too and can see from the 30k rules that they are not too bad, or even good when compared to their armies.
If this all looks familier it's because it is, it's the same thing with 40k vs 40k.
Now there are some things that should happen (as usual) before playing a 30k vs 40k game (sod it I'm calling it a multi-k game from now on).
Firstly if you are playing orks, nids or any army with a 5+ save or worse, try not to take too many Volkite weapons (unless tourny setting) as one sqaud of culverin HSS will kill an ork mob a turn, easily.
Try not to spam the Spartans, 1/2 is fair, but most armies cannot deal with them at all, let alone the [MOD EDIT - Please find a different way to express that - Alpharius] you invariably have inside.
Try not to use the primarchs, first in a smaller game they will eat that 25% very easily, secondly, not much can stand up to them in 40k, and the force multiplier is evil with certain forces.
Remove the 25% lord of war rule for them, or you stick to it too.
I have more but all in all, have a chat before hand.
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Post by: Blacksails
What I'm curious about this is if we'll see a whole range of armour marks, and then if plastic legion conversion kits will be made.
I wouldn't be surprised about a few different kits for the different armour marks, but hopefully they leave the fiddly conversion bits to FW.
I'm also hoping this isn't step 1 in turning either 40k or 30k into an AoS type game.
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Post by: Ashiraya
This excites me, but it also terrifies me.
I have a large CSM army but I was moving entirely over to HH WB because FW's game and miniatures are just simply better IMO. I dearly hope GW won't make my WB into CSM too!
'Oh yeah, you are traitor, you randomly lost a bunch of stuff all the loyalists get frivolous access to because... uh... reasons.'
Or scatterbike Contemptors. You know it will happen. And only BA will get them.
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
 Blacksails wrote:What I'm curious about this is if we'll see a whole range of armour marks, and then if plastic legion conversion kits will be made.
I wouldn't be surprised about a few different kits for the different armour marks, but hopefully they leave the fiddly conversion bits to FW.
I'm also hoping this isn't step 1 in turning either 40k or 30k into an AoS type game.
Well, HH boxed game with rules similar to AoS - easily saleable. If it sells, roll out to 40K properly as that's what people are clearly going to buy.
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Post by: shade1313
 Lockark wrote:The weapon options are odd. It looks like a meltagun, missile launcher, heavy bolted, and combi?
From a kit perspective disappointing considering the newest tactical squad box.
From a game play perspective is odd because in the current rules hh tac squads don't have access to ANY of those guns.
I hope these rules don't mess with fw's exellent rule set for age of darkness. My heart can't take another age of sigmar.
The other possible perspective with the weapons on the sprue is that with this one kit, you can make a regular Legion tactical squad, all with bolters, or a veteran tactical squad, or make a few tac squads and use the leftover special and heavy weapons to make full support and heavy support squads. I'm hoping the sprues were made with that idea in mind, rather than just messing with what FW has already written and done a good job with.
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Post by: Blacksails
Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Well, HH boxed game with rules similar to AoS - easily saleable. If it sells, roll out to 40K properly as that's what people are clearly going to buy.
That's what I'm worried about. Plus, any theoretical boxed game will sell well just for the models, and not necessarily because of the rules, though I imagine GW couldn't or wouldn't be able to figure out the difference.
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Post by: NoggintheNog
Looking good. Any news on when these are likely to appear? I realise seeing them in the flesh is no indicator of being anywhere near release.
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Post by: Mr Morden
ImAGeek wrote: Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.
Because for those of us making 30k forces, this could save us quite a bit of money.
Why would they be cheaper than FW? Looking at the recent AOS prices - could be more expensive?
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Post by: rryannn
GW wants to end resells! No body will want boring old space marines! Cool models.
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Post by: psnmario
These look great, can't wait for these to be released.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Mr Morden wrote: ImAGeek wrote: Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.
Because for those of us making 30k forces, this could save us quite a bit of money.
Why would they be cheaper than FW? Looking at the recent AOS prices - could be more expensive?
It's £61 for a tac squad from FW. I'm hoping GW aren't insane enough to try charging more than that for 10 plastic minis.
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Post by: shade1313
Warhams-77 wrote:Hastings on Warseer last night:
Re: Heresy plastics
Originally Posted by Scribe of Khorne
So tell me hastings, are we looking at an AoS type moment here, or is GW going to let FW keep steering the HH ship?
If AoS style rules reboots are incoming...in a few months? I'll likely lose my ****.
I don't know TBH, I'll share what I have heard, but this dates back a while as I pay very little interest to GW now.
I heard that 30k HH would be a boxed standalone game (like execution force was) and that the plastics contained within it would go on to form part of a larger 30k range and would be released some time later as individual box sets/clampacks, I was told that rules would be in those boxes, but that some boxes would contain rules for 30k AND 40k (and these boxes have BOTH logos on - yes there is a new 30k logo) so I assume it will be using a different ruleset to 40k (as there would be no point having rules for both systems in boxes if they were both the same). I was also told the plastic assassins would get clampack releases later and be released as part of the main 40k range..... as the box set is pretty much still quite widely available I don't expect this to be soon, although I never had a timeframe in the first case.
As for your AoS style rule reboot question - I remember being told to expect 40k codexes (codices?) to be a thing of the past within 2 years, and that the rules would be in the box for each model/unit, but there would still be a core ruleset which the in box rules would obviously add to. I've not bought any AoS releases (nor do I intend to) so I don't know if they have rules in the boxes (seems daft as when rules got FAQ'd ( lol) or changed they'd need to repack ALL the boxes - seems even dafter that anything would actually bother with rules for AoS!!) or just online? I am going to leap to the conclusion that 40k probably WILL become more simplified like AoS, mainly because GW no longer see themselves as rules/games writers but just model sellers. How much more simplified I wouldn't hazard a guess at. Whatever they decide to do you can bet it's in the pipeline already, because myself and Harry were privately discussing the changes to WFB almost 3 years ago - I was told it was being canned and whilst we thought that was not the case and that AoS would be a continuation or refresh of it WFB HAS actually been canned and REPLACED by AoS, so these things are planned well ahead.
FW make huge sales from HH, there was no way that GW weren't going to want in on the action! I expect FW to still produce the big kits/characters/customising kits but GW will provide the bulk of the models needed to play 30k. We can only hope that GW let FW handle the 30k rules/books and they just make the models for it. But keep in mind I was told that when the 30k RANGE hits the stores (not the standalone box game but the actual range) it will take over the store space that used to be taken up by LotR/Hobbit, so GW may want to keep tight hold of the reigns even though they are no longer committed to producing games?
That's probably done very little to answer you, but it's the best I can manage and hopefully slightly informative if only a repost of what I wrote in January.
Originally Posted by lbecks
The character kit has two guys in it. ......
Indeed. Maybe those are the 2 characters from the starter/standalone box that might only be available in that box...... or something
*EDIT.
Having thought about this I think the unit/model rules for 30k & 40k will be online/ WD rather than actually inside the box kits (I may have misinterpreted what my source said).
Also I should point out that as I understand it 40k and 30k will be very different games/rulesets, so it may be that 40k becomes like AoS and 30k is handled by FW (although this is just wishful thinking on the behalf of hobbyists the world over!).
Of course I may be completely wrong...... because that happens a lot 
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412055-Heresy-plastics&p=7506930&viewfull=1#post7506930
Good lord, if they AoS 40k, then that's a crapload of armies that will be joining my WFB stuff in storage for the long, long term.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
nudibranch wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:
From what I've heard the balance between 30K and 40K armies isn't as bad as balance between 40K and 40K in general, so it shouldn't be too bad.
To be fair, that's mostly because 30K is slightly different space marines vs. other slightly different space marines + psuedo-Imperial Guard and the Mechanicum. There's simply not as much to balance.
Let's not forget that the 40K Demons Codex is also in there as allies for the Word Bearers, so there's an actual 40K army present in 30K. Amusingly enough, it was because of that allowance that made Word Bearers a top tier Legion.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.
But... But... They have a new hat!
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Post by: Necros
Neeto! I always meant to invest in a few squads of the FW minis and slowly rebuild my old marine army that I sold off a while back, may as well wait for the plastics.
Hopefully they'll oldschoolify some of the vehicles too, like the domeyturret predator
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Post by: Kosake
Did anyone state in what context this will be released? A 30k starter? A campaign box? Anything?
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Post by: Hanskrampf
 Kosake wrote:Did anyone state in what context this will be released? A 30k starter? A campaign box? Anything?
Multiple times. See last page for example. Rumour though, nothing confirmed.
Boxed standalone set like Execution Force, later full regular range instead of LotR/Hobbit.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Kosake wrote:Did anyone state in what context this will be released? A 30k starter? A campaign box? Anything?
Gumball machines outside every GW shop, 50 cents a bit, random packaging, single arm, leg, torso, gun, head, backpack or shoulderpad in each gum ball.
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Post by: gorgon
Hey, if at first you don't succeed in being funny, try again!
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Post by: Rayvon
Third time lucky maybe ?
I see it now that its the squatting legs making them look different, im guessing thats to help them fit the mould better, marine legs are like that nearly every time they come in plastic.
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Post by: Breotan
Wouldn't it be funny if the ruleset was redesigned along the lines of AoS? And there are no points? And we're all each other's GM's with a story?
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Post by: Crimson Devil
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And despite this are run differently, release better products, act like adults when it comes to previews and advertising, produce higher quality books (miles better quality) and seem to have their collective heads on straight when it comes to basically everything they do. So yeah, FW is part of GW in the same way the heart and the appendix are part of your body, but one is infinitely more useful than the other.
Very good points, unfortunately FW is attached to a gangrenous body. I would love to believe GW could learn to be more like FW, but it won't happen. If anything I feel FW will continue as a gutted soulless name brand under this new rules light regime.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
 Crimson Devil wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:
And despite this are run differently, release better products, act like adults when it comes to previews and advertising, produce higher quality books (miles better quality) and seem to have their collective heads on straight when it comes to basically everything they do. So yeah, FW is part of GW in the same way the heart and the appendix are part of your body, but one is infinitely more useful than the other.
Very good points, unfortunately FW is attached to a gangrenous body. I would love to believe GW could learn to be more like FW, but it won't happen. If anything I feel FW will continue as a gutted soulless name brand under this new rules light regime.
Kind of like Avalon Hill under Hasbro/WOTC?
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Post by: Necros
If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
 Necros wrote:If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)
Backlash? People complain, but others are still happily buying. Wouldn't call a whole bunch of crying and raving online a "backlash"
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Post by: ImAGeek
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Necros wrote:If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)
Backlash? People complain, but others are still happily buying. Wouldn't call a whole bunch of crying and raving online a "backlash"
What counts as backlash then?
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
ImAGeek wrote: Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Necros wrote:If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)
Backlash? People complain, but others are still happily buying. Wouldn't call a whole bunch of crying and raving online a "backlash"
What counts as backlash then?
Razing the HQ to the ground.
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Post by: shade1313
 Breotan wrote:Wouldn't it be funny if the ruleset was redesigned along the lines of AoS? And there are no points? And we're all each other's GM's with a story?
It'd be really funny to have all that extra time to put into other hobbies.
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Post by: Gitzbitah
That depends entirely on whether AoS exceeds their profit projections. If it does, then yes, 40k will look very much like it in the next edition. Heck, there may be crossover rules available- lightning bows and thunderhammers sound like an even match for most 40k armies anyways.
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Post by: Fayric
Its nice to see so many people entustiastic that GW-main will now take control of their beloved horus heresy.
I would have predicted great anxiety and doom-sayings over this.
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Post by: zedmeister
Crimson Devil wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:
And despite this are run differently, release better products, act like adults when it comes to previews and advertising, produce higher quality books (miles better quality) and seem to have their collective heads on straight when it comes to basically everything they do. So yeah, FW is part of GW in the same way the heart and the appendix are part of your body, but one is infinitely more useful than the other.
Very good points, unfortunately FW is attached to a gangrenous body. I would love to believe GW could learn to be more like FW, but it won't happen. If anything I feel FW will continue as a gutted soulless name brand under this new rules light regime.
The day that FW is gutted "taken over" by GW is the day I run screaming from 40k. I can't help feeling that head office have noted the popularity of Forgeworld's HH models and books and fancies their chances. There's a few things that could happen:
- GW produced plastics for the big sellers where it is actually economical to produce - i.e. buckets of Space Marine armour marks, Contemptors and terminators where as FW will produce resins for the not so big sellers. Rules, production and direction are FW led.
- GW fold HH inhouse in its entirety and take over its production with all the horrors that it will entail
Lets just say I am nervous about this release and what it means for Forgeworld, currently the only place I spend any money on GW and 40k related models and books. And that's because of the passion that comes across in each of their books and sculpts. If that stops, then I'm pretty much 2nd handing what I want, 40kwise, and investing even more in other game systems.
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Post by: zgort
 Alpharius wrote:The details of the Horus Heresy, revealed...
Rules for Primarchs...
And now plastic Horus Heresy models AND a game from GW?!?
This truly is...The End Times!
Truly...
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Post by: Kanluwen
There's also another path entirely, where they're just releasing marks of armor intended to be used for 40k...
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Post by: Alpharius
 Kanluwen wrote:There's also another path entirely, where they're just releasing marks of armor intended to be used for 40k...
I actually hope that's the case here - but the presence of Cataphractii Armor says otherwise, doesn't it?
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Post by: Koppo
Did we not get Cataphractii rules for 40K? I thought we did (but cannot think where so may be a figment of my imagination)
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Post by: BrookM
IIRC correctly Cataphractii have a better invulnerable save, but are Slow and Purposeful instead of Relentless.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 BrookM wrote:IIRC correctly Cataphractii have a better invulnerable save, but are Slow and Purposeful instead of Relentless.
Yeah, but they're only in 30k, there's no rules for Cataphractii in 40k.
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Post by: kronk
 Fayric wrote:Its nice to see so many people entustiastic that GW-main will now take control of their beloved horus heresy. I would have predicted great anxiety and doom-sayings over this.
Because it sounds like a one-off board game or they're simply adding to the existing Space Marines model line. I have confidence that Allan Blighe and crew will continue to put out HH stuff via the FW label. Automatically Appended Next Post: ImAGeek wrote: BrookM wrote:IIRC correctly Cataphractii have a better invulnerable save, but are Slow and Purposeful instead of Relentless.
Yeah, but they're only in 30k, there's no rules for Cataphractii in 40k.
Correct, they are not in 40k...yet.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Kanluwen wrote:There's also another path entirely, where they're just releasing marks of armor intended to be used for 40k...
I think this is very possible, as I'm sure others have noted, the kit builds a tactical squad... But legionary squads don't have special or heavy weapons... So the intent is clearly something different.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 aka_mythos wrote: Kanluwen wrote:There's also another path entirely, where they're just releasing marks of armor intended to be used for 40k...
I think this is very possible, as I'm sure others have noted, the kit builds a tactical squad... But legionary squads don't have special or heavy weapons... So the intent is clearly something different.
But tactical veteran squads do have special and heavy weapons. It's probably a Tactical Squad/Tactical Veteran Squad kit.
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Post by: Azreal13
Modern 40K boxes don't carry pre-Heresy marks of special or heavy weapons.
At least, not yet
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Post by: Abadabadoobaddon
It will be interesting to see if the traitor legions actually get Legion Tactics in 30k or they reserve those for the loyalists.
Also dreading the inevitable sales-driven retcons. Reenact the epic Siege of Terra where the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Ultramarines fought off the traitor hordes of Horus!
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Post by: STC_LogisEngine
We can only hope that the Tactical Squad package of the sprue points to a stand-alone thing and not the Dread Horror of a hostile takeover of Forge Worlds sublime work (especially rules and book-wise) on the HH.
If they do I will cry like a 5-year old and send a sharply-worded letter to the main office.
Followed by more tears. 
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Necros wrote:If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)
Backlash? People complain, but others are still happily buying. Wouldn't call a whole bunch of crying and raving online a "backlash"
I guess that explains why Matt Ward Still works there.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Necros wrote:If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)
Backlash? People complain, but others are still happily buying. Wouldn't call a whole bunch of crying and raving online a "backlash"
I guess that explains why Matt Ward Still works there.
No he doesn't...
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Post by: STC_LogisEngine
Exactly...
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Post by: Nocturnus
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: ImAGeek wrote: Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.
In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.
Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.
Because for those of us making 30k forces, this could save us quite a bit of money.
That's true and a good point.
Can I play 40K vs 30K?
Things tend to cost more in 30K, so a 40K army will tend to get more stuff. For HH you pay a premium for a minimal sized squad but it gets cheaper if you max it out. For example, if you take a Tactical squad, it's 150pts for 10. But you can buy up to 10 more marines for 10pts a piece. So, it encourages max squad size. I emailed FW awhile back asking the same thing and they told me that it wouldn't be a very balanced game to use 40K armies in 30K. Hopefully they'll do a crusade era list allowing for filthy xenos armies.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
The balance will usually be in 40K's favor. The worst that a 30K army can do is nothing compared to the crazy stuff 40K can pull off.
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Post by: gorgon
Yeah, 2500 pts in 30K might be roughly equivalent to 2000 pts in 40K. If I was going to play 30K vs. 40K, I'd probably give the 30K side a 20 to 25 percent higher points limit. But 30K armies are capable of fielding some fairly nasty stuff too. It's complicated.
But beyond balance issues, I think 30K is just really about playing games in a Heresy setting with Heresy armies. That may seem like an obvious statement. And clearly people are free to do whatever the heck they want with 30K or 40K. But to me, "forging the narrative" is more important and intrinsic to playing 30K. That doesn't just mean fluff, but things like painting your legion appropriately and not in some generic scheme to serve as a counts-as of your choice.
To me (others may feel very differently), if what someone wants from his/her tabletop gaming is 'competitive' pickup games with nondescript marines vs. random xenos on some unnamed world...I'm not sure if 30K is what he/she is looking for.
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Post by: Breotan
Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?
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Post by: kronk
Breotan wrote:Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?
What proof do you have that they won't be! I want proof, damn it!
About 87 Proof.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Breotan wrote:Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?
We've not seen anything to suggest they're touching the rules. We're going on the assumption that FW will keep doing the majority of the stuff for 30k.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Which doesn't mean that he left because of "online backlash".
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Post by: Lockark
ImAGeek wrote: Lockark wrote:The weapon options are odd. It looks like a meltagun, missile launcher, heavy bolted, and combi?
From a kit perspective disappointing considering the newest tactical squad box.
From a game play perspective is odd because in the current rules hh tac squads don't have access to ANY of those guns.
I hope these rules don't mess with fw's exellent rule set for age of darkness. My heart can't take another age of sigmar.
Veteran squads in 30k can take those weapons.
I actually would of rathered 10 ccw/pistol arms. Lol
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
Kanluwen wrote:
Which doesn't mean that he left because of "online backlash".
Exactly.
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Post by: MrFlutterPie
I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.
I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile 
Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.
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Post by: Abanshee
LOL me too. They would go great with my Sons Of Horus. Of course, the wife will kill me....
lol dude Horus is laughing somewhere in the warp 
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Post by: Prestor Jon
Breotan wrote:Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?
Well, it's not definitive proof but:
shade1313 wrote:Warhams-77 wrote:Hastings on Warseer last night:
Re: Heresy plastics
Originally Posted by Scribe of Khorne
So tell me hastings, are we looking at an AoS type moment here, or is GW going to let FW keep steering the HH ship?
If AoS style rules reboots are incoming...in a few months? I'll likely lose my ****.
I don't know TBH, I'll share what I have heard, but this dates back a while as I pay very little interest to GW now.
I heard that 30k HH would be a boxed standalone game (like execution force was) and that the plastics contained within it would go on to form part of a larger 30k range and would be released some time later as individual box sets/clampacks, I was told that rules would be in those boxes, but that some boxes would contain rules for 30k AND 40k (and these boxes have BOTH logos on - yes there is a new 30k logo) so I assume it will be using a different ruleset to 40k (as there would be no point having rules for both systems in boxes if they were both the same). I was also told the plastic assassins would get clampack releases later and be released as part of the main 40k range..... as the box set is pretty much still quite widely available I don't expect this to be soon, although I never had a timeframe in the first case.
As for your AoS style rule reboot question - I remember being told to expect 40k codexes (codices?) to be a thing of the past within 2 years, and that the rules would be in the box for each model/unit, but there would still be a core ruleset which the in box rules would obviously add to. I've not bought any AoS releases (nor do I intend to) so I don't know if they have rules in the boxes (seems daft as when rules got FAQ'd ( lol) or changed they'd need to repack ALL the boxes - seems even dafter that anything would actually bother with rules for AoS!!) or just online? I am going to leap to the conclusion that 40k probably WILL become more simplified like AoS, mainly because GW no longer see themselves as rules/games writers but just model sellers. How much more simplified I wouldn't hazard a guess at. Whatever they decide to do you can bet it's in the pipeline already, because myself and Harry were privately discussing the changes to WFB almost 3 years ago - I was told it was being canned and whilst we thought that was not the case and that AoS would be a continuation or refresh of it WFB HAS actually been canned and REPLACED by AoS, so these things are planned well ahead.
FW make huge sales from HH, there was no way that GW weren't going to want in on the action! I expect FW to still produce the big kits/characters/customising kits but GW will provide the bulk of the models needed to play 30k. We can only hope that GW let FW handle the 30k rules/books and they just make the models for it. But keep in mind I was told that when the 30k RANGE hits the stores (not the standalone box game but the actual range) it will take over the store space that used to be taken up by LotR/Hobbit, so GW may want to keep tight hold of the reigns even though they are no longer committed to producing games?
That's probably done very little to answer you, but it's the best I can manage and hopefully slightly informative if only a repost of what I wrote in January.
Originally Posted by lbecks
The character kit has two guys in it. ......
Indeed. Maybe those are the 2 characters from the starter/standalone box that might only be available in that box...... or something
*EDIT.
Having thought about this I think the unit/model rules for 30k & 40k will be online/ WD rather than actually inside the box kits (I may have misinterpreted what my source said).
Also I should point out that as I understand it 40k and 30k will be very different games/rulesets, so it may be that 40k becomes like AoS and 30k is handled by FW (although this is just wishful thinking on the behalf of hobbyists the world over!).
Of course I may be completely wrong...... because that happens a lot
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412055-Heresy-plastics&p=7506930&viewfull=1#post7506930
Good lord, if they AoS 40k, then that's a crapload of armies that will be joining my WFB stuff in storage for the long, long term.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
Oh whoa. Definitely interested in this.
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Post by: Nvs
I haven't been following AoS at all because I'm not a fan of the fantasy setting. But from what my friends who play it say, if the system actually had points and the rules were a little more serious in tone, the game would be great. Is this not the case?
Plus, if 40k is doing as well as rumors would lead us to believe, it seems silly to change something that works.
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Post by: Dawnbringer
Nvs wrote:I haven't been following AoS at all because I'm not a fan of the fantasy setting. But from what my friends who play it say, if the system actually had points and the rules were a little more serious in tone, the game would be great. Is this not the case?
And if my land rover did not have electrical gremlins and could do 100 miles to the gallon it would be great too.
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Post by: Yaraton
You can afford a land rover??? All I have is a pushbike I made from some driftwood I fished out of the local creek, steel wire and the wheels I took off a shopping cart.
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Post by: Harriticus
GW's 30k will never be able to match the diversity of products FW has come out with so I'm mostly unconcerned with this.
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Post by: Desubot
Well il be glad if i can get my grunts out cheaper than buying units of 5 constantly.
Mk4s look nice.
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Post by: Dentry
 Harriticus wrote:GW's 30k will never be able to match the diversity of products FW has come out with so I'm mostly unconcerned with this.
Right. But I always thought that was FW's niche. GW mass produces marines, FW makes Legion/Chapter specific stuff.
Edit: Standard disclaimer (which doesn't matter because it'll still be taken either way): FW = GW.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
 MrFlutterPie wrote:I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.
I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile
Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.
Kind of surprised they didn't do a mix of marks since marines have always mixed and matched from what was available.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Hastings did not say 40k WILL be turned into an AoS-like rule-system...
Hastings - Warseer
Re: Age of Sigmar style books to 40k in 2 years acc. to Hastings..
The title of this thread doesn't really match up to what I've said. I have said I was told that Codexes (Codices? how the hell do you do the plural of Codex anyway???) would be gone within 2 years. That might mean the rules for each unit are included in the boxes/free on the net/ wd etc. I do think that 40k rules will become more simplified, why? because GW don't want to focus on making games systems/rules anymore, they purely want to sell models. I do not doubt for one second that they (the main 40k rules) "COULD" become like AoS, but that is my personal opinion, and as I openly said that was me jumping to the conclusion based on how easily they destroyed their longest game world in favour of making more money. I think rather than being of any use at all this thread is purely scaremongering and misleading. The death of the codex doesn't mean the end of 40k, the death of the army book in WFB was because AoS had ALREADY killed WFB, and AoS had no place for army books.
Originally Posted by gwarsh41
It was rumored that fantasy would have a skirmish game alongside 9th edition. It was rumored that 9th edition would use round or square bases, and you could form your units in 3 distinct styles (rank, skirmish, and something else) each giving bonuses. There were a lot of rumors, but if you can find one 2 years old that points to AoS I will concede my point.
I could send you PMs over 3 years old discussing the demise of WFB would that suit? In fact if you care to look you WILL find discussions on the fantasy threads about the demise of army books and rolling them into smaller groups of armies (i.e. order, Destruction etc.) think they were by Harry though as well as myself.
Having known MANY people at GW for MANY years I can tell you without any shadow of doubt that things two years out are not unknown quantities to some members of GW. When I was right in the thick of the rumour mill some years back the occasional eagle eyed viewer might even have seen unreleased models in the background of pictures on my painting logs MANY MONTHS before they were released. I was sat happily reading the WoC army book 5 months before it was released, almost 6 months before for the O&G one, so please don't figure to assume that no one knows anything and they're just fishing, some people know a great deal, what they chose to share is entirely different.
Seriously GW don't do things on a whim, whatever is going to happen to 40k WILL already be well progressed, just no-one hears about it until the last minute.
Also not to be picky but my original post say WITHIN 2 years.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412025-Age-of-Sigmar-style-books-to-40k-in-2-years-acc-to-Hastings&p=7507130&viewfull=1#post7507130
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Kid_Kyoto wrote: MrFlutterPie wrote:I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.
I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile
Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.
Kind of surprised they didn't do a mix of marks since marines have always mixed and matched from what was available.
Well, not really. In 30k the armours were a lot more mass produced and distributed so you'd have seen whole companies and chapters in the same armour. I imagine officers and veterans and such would have had more room for customisation but the majority of stuff in 30k was mass produced. When you get to big battles like Istvaan there'd have been more scavenging and mixing armour to replace broken parts and stuff. Doing a kit for each Mark is the best way because then people who just want to use one mark for their force can do that, and people who want mixed armour can still do that too.
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Post by: HairySticks
 kronk wrote:
What proof do you have that they won't be! I want proof, damn it!
About 87 Proof.
like your style, although 87 is not enough proof! 100+ minimum for a good bourbon!
Heresy marines in plastic cant be bad, its not like people havent been wanting it.
Still though... (and yes I'm going to say it...) plastic 30k before sisters is just heresy!! (I'd happily buy either, or both though )
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
ImAGeek wrote:We've not seen anything to suggest they're touching the rules. We're going on the assumption that FW will keep doing the majority of the stuff for 30k.
They're making plastics of Forge World's resin Marines. I'd say all bets are off.
I think 30K is where they will try AoS rules, at least if they were a sane company.* Why?
A) This is a limited release that can be dual-started for 30K and 40K. They did the work to transcribe Fantasy units to Age of Sigmar and so it wouldn't be too unlikely they would do Xenos back to 30K. This release will probably be Harlequin like and could still be offered or expanded depending on how the models are received. (Read: Sales)
B) GW desperately needs a new gateway game. Problem is 40K just refuses to conform to the idea that a $40 box is all you need to play. Modern 40K requires at least a platoon worth of figures and GW needs a game that hooks new players into "the hobby" with their first purchase. AoS seems to scale like LotR did.
C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.
Seriously, the only thing these days stopping me from playing 40K is the fact I have to buy an army from the force organization which at its smallest is still more than I wish to play. If GW's dream isn't to have some kid wander off the street, buy a box of Marines and with some help be playing in less than 30 minutes then they really are lost.
Iain.
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Post by: Gashrog
 Dentry wrote: Harriticus wrote:GW's 30k will never be able to match the diversity of products FW has come out with so I'm mostly unconcerned with this.
Right. But I always thought that was FW's niche. GW mass produces marines, FW makes Legion/Chapter specific stuff.
Edit: Standard disclaimer (which doesn't matter because it'll still be taken either way): FW = GW.
Not really no, if you check the webstore you'll see GW central still sells the chapter/legion specific upgrades from 3rd edition, they even updated them for finecrap. In 4th edition they did the Black Templar, Dark Angel & Ravenwing plastic upgrade sets, 5th edition they did the Blood Angel Death Company box (which like the Dark Angel Company Veteran box was intended to also be used as a general upgrade set), and now they've just released the big four chapters plastic shoulderpad sets.
Forge World's niche is whatever Tony Cotrell wants, so long as it's in resin.
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Post by: MrFlutterPie
ImAGeek wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote: MrFlutterPie wrote:I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.
I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile
Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.
Kind of surprised they didn't do a mix of marks since marines have always mixed and matched from what was available.
Well, not really. In 30k the armours were a lot more mass produced and distributed so you'd have seen whole companies and chapters in the same armour. I imagine officers and veterans and such would have had more room for customisation but the majority of stuff in 30k was mass produced. When you get to big battles like Istvaan there'd have been more scavenging and mixing armour to replace broken parts and stuff. Doing a kit for each Mark is the best way because then people who just want to use one mark for their force can do that, and people who want mixed armour can still do that too.
This.
I would be annoyed if I had to buy a couple of boxes just to get a single 10 man squad in the armour type I wanted. When the rumours first started floating around there was some talk about the boxes being mixed which I hoped were false.
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Post by: Bronzefists42
And I just rewrote my WE to be infantry oriented too
Excited as all hell.
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Post by: Breotan
Chairman Aeon wrote:C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.
I think GW studio does not have an escape plan if 30K "peters out".
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Post by: Jehan-reznor
Breotan wrote:Chairman Aeon wrote:C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.
I think GW studio does not have an escape plan if 30K "peters out".
20K? The age of the emperor?
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
Breotan wrote:
I think GW studio does not have an escape plan if 30K "peters out".
Their escape plane is limited release.
Iain.
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Post by: Kirasu
 Jehan-reznor wrote: Breotan wrote:Chairman Aeon wrote:C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.
I think GW studio does not have an escape plan if 30K "peters out".
20K? The age of the emperor?
30k is the age of the emperor...
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Post by: Commissar-Danno
 Kirasu wrote: Jehan-reznor wrote: Breotan wrote:Chairman Aeon wrote:C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.
I think GW studio does not have an escape plan if 30K "peters out".
20K? The age of the emperor?
30k is the age of the emperor...
29K, post apocalyptic earth with marauders straight out of a mix of mad max and chaos cultists vs. power armored thunder warriors.
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Post by: Kirasu
Just play the new Fallout 4.
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Post by: Jehan-reznor
Fallout 4 is not same universe
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Post by: MrFlutterPie
 Commissar-Danno wrote: Kirasu wrote: Jehan-reznor wrote: Breotan wrote:Chairman Aeon wrote:C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.
I think GW studio does not have an escape plan if 30K "peters out".
20K? The age of the emperor?
30k is the age of the emperor...
29K, post apocalyptic earth with marauders straight out of a mix of mad max and chaos cultists vs. power armored thunder warriors.
I would buy the ever loving gak of that.
Unification wars boxset anyone?
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Post by: STC_LogisEngine
Yepp, would ruin myself on that gak indeed. Thuuuuuunderwaaaaarrioooooors!
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Post by: foenixphate
Yep, would be all over that, just thinking of the terrain potential and modeling combos is exciting, Saying that, me and my fellow old men of 40k have all vowed that when this hits we are going to build a legion or two each so I'm assuming this will drag a lot of old fans back in.
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Post by: Daston
I have been looking at doing 30K Space Wolves, so much so that I sold all the 40k toys to make room (all of my guys have FW bolters anyway).
This kit would make kit bashing the SW kit and HH kits much easier
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Post by: Tank_Dweller
Kirasu wrote: Jehan-reznor wrote: Breotan wrote:Chairman Aeon wrote:C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.
I think GW studio does not have an escape plan if 30K "peters out".
20K? The age of the emperor?
30k is the age of the emperor...
I actually have a feeling 50k will be Age of Emprah... with no points to boot!
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Post by: Relapse
I have been trading bits to create a Mark VI marine force, and built up a few squads. I'll be all over this if it's legit.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Yep. They will make a limited edition clam pack, a run of only 500 minis before the molds are destroyed in a public ceremony. They will cost $1,000 each.
Only the Emperor can save GW.
And then the recasters will save us all.
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Post by: warboss
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yep. They will make a limited edition clam pack, a run of only 500 minis before the molds are destroyed in a public ceremony. They will cost $1,000 each.
Only the Emperor can save GW.
And then the recasters will save us all.
You're confusing that with Forgeworld's plan for the Emperor mini. By that point, the decorative bases will be larger than the recently released warlord titan.
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Post by: Eldarain
I could see them giving each of Horus Transfigured and the Emperor half of his command deck for a scenic duel like Ferrus/Fulgrim taken to an absurd level.
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
Well I said I thought HH would come before the end of the year a month ago and I was laughed off the forum. But here goes;
More stuff to come next year. Jetbikes some sort of Mk3 stuff. MkIII looks abit different to FW, chestplate is more angular, and the gauntlets are more squarish. More blocky and tanky than the roundish FW look. Should fit in just fine though.
More Mechanicum stuff too.
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Post by: Kosake
 WhispererofTruth wrote:Well I said I thought HH would come before the end of the year a month ago and I was laughed off the forum. But here goes;
More stuff to come next year. Jetbikes some sort of Mk3 stuff. MkIII looks abit different to FW, chestplate is more angular, and the gauntlets are more squarish. More blocky and tanky than the roundish FW look. Should fit in just fine though.
More Mechanicum stuff too.
Whisps, you rock. In our collective defence, it sounded too good to be true.
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Post by: STC_LogisEngine
"Good" here being surrounded by so many asterisks and exceptions it needs 500 pages if printed out and a whole lawfirm to keep in order.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
 STC_LogisEngine wrote:
"Good" here being surrounded by so many asterisks and exceptions it needs 500 pages if printed out and a whole lawfirm to keep in order.
What's so bad about this?
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Post by: Yodhrin
 thenoobbomb wrote: STC_LogisEngine wrote:
"Good" here being surrounded by so many asterisks and exceptions it needs 500 pages if printed out and a whole lawfirm to keep in order.
What's so bad about this?
The possibility FW will discontinue any "basic" Heresy armour mark kits that GW do in plastic, thus humping people who would prefer the look/material/poses of FW's kits and aren't finished collecting their armies yet.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game, and make FW stop producing their good rules so the GW gakshow doesn't have to compete with them.
The possibility that GW producing plastic Heresy and shifting FW product over to the main website signals their intent to "clamp down" on FW and eliminate all the positive behaviours vets like them for, such as sharing info & teasers about upcoming product well in advance.
The possibility GW producing plastic Heresy models will free up FW to work on other things, then those other things turn out to be Age of Sigmar and yet more SM shoulderpads(yes, I know, since some folk around here apparently need it spelled out; I am taking the piss with this last one).
How likely any of the issues people are worried about actually are we don't know, probably mildly unlikely, hell we might even see FW return to its glory days and produce all sorts of niche wonderment like returned Specialist Games or more frequent and more varied Imperial Armour books, but it's indicative of GW's abysmal community management and outreach that a significant group of potential customers look at what should be a universally positive product tease and get a sick feeling of dread.
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Post by: blingman
 Yodhrin wrote: thenoobbomb wrote: STC_LogisEngine wrote:
"Good" here being surrounded by so many asterisks and exceptions it needs 500 pages if printed out and a whole lawfirm to keep in order.
What's so bad about this?
The possibility FW will discontinue any "basic" Heresy armour mark kits that GW do in plastic, thus humping people who would prefer the look/material/poses of FW's kits and aren't finished collecting their armies yet.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game, and make FW stop producing their good rules so the GW gakshow doesn't have to compete with them.
The possibility that GW producing plastic Heresy and shifting FW product over to the main website signals their intent to "clamp down" on FW and eliminate all the positive behaviours vets like them for, such as sharing info & teasers about upcoming product well in advance.
The possibility GW producing plastic Heresy models will free up FW to work on other things, then those other things turn out to be Age of Sigmar and yet more SM shoulderpads(yes, I know, since some folk around here apparently need it spelled out; I am taking the piss with this last one).
How likely any of the issues people are worried about actually are we don't know, probably mildly unlikely, hell we might even see FW return to its glory days and produce all sorts of niche wonderment like returned Specialist Games or more frequent and more varied Imperial Armour books, but it's indicative of GW's abysmal community management and outreach that a significant group of potential customers look at what should be a universally positive product tease and get a sick feeling of dread.
Jesus....
You really cannot let it go can you, [MOD EDIT - PLEASE find another way to express yourself - Alpharius]
Fed up of reading your whines thinly disguised with crap humour, this is news and rumours, post this rubbish elsewhere pls
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Post by: Jack Flask
 Eldarain wrote:I could see them giving each of Horus Transfigured and the Emperor half of his command deck for a scenic duel like Ferrus/Fulgrim taken to an absurd level.
Feth it. I want to see the Emperor come with a scale replica of the whole Vengeful Spirit as his base.
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Post by: Blacksails
blingman wrote:
Jesus....
You really cannot let it go can you, [MOD EDIT - PLEASE find another way to express yourself - Alpharius]
Fed up of reading your whines thinly disguised with crap humour, this is news and rumours, post this rubbish elsewhere pls
Maybe people are fed up reading your whining about whining?
Discussions happen, and this particular tangent is relevant and important to some people. The FW HH line is generally positively regarded, and GW main has a bad track record of having a good idea (plastic HH marines) but fething it up on execution (Sigmafy the rules, cannibalize FW's creativity are both possibilities that wouldn't be desirable).
So somebody asked a question, and they got an answer. If you don't like that answer, feel free to refute it, or ignore it and talk about other rumours or why you're excited.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
Yodhrin wrote: thenoobbomb wrote: STC_LogisEngine wrote:
"Good" here being surrounded by so many asterisks and exceptions it needs 500 pages if printed out and a whole lawfirm to keep in order.
What's so bad about this?
The possibility FW will discontinue any "basic" Heresy armour mark kits that GW do in plastic, thus humping people who would prefer the look/material/poses of FW's kits and aren't finished collecting their armies yet.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game, and make FW stop producing their good rules so the GW gakshow doesn't have to compete with them.
The possibility that GW producing plastic Heresy and shifting FW product over to the main website signals their intent to "clamp down" on FW and eliminate all the positive behaviours vets like them for, such as sharing info & teasers about upcoming product well in advance.
The possibility GW producing plastic Heresy models will free up FW to work on other things, then those other things turn out to be Age of Sigmar and yet more SM shoulderpads(yes, I know, since some folk around here apparently need it spelled out; I am taking the piss with this last one).
How likely any of the issues people are worried about actually are we don't know, probably mildly unlikely, hell we might even see FW return to its glory days and produce all sorts of niche wonderment like returned Specialist Games or more frequent and more varied Imperial Armour books, but it's indicative of GW's abysmal community management and outreach that a significant group of potential customers look at what should be a universally positive product tease and get a sick feeling of dread.
So at least half of the things that are bad about this are that the stuff is getting cheaper?
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Post by: ImAGeek
thenoobbomb wrote: Yodhrin wrote: thenoobbomb wrote: STC_LogisEngine wrote:
"Good" here being surrounded by so many asterisks and exceptions it needs 500 pages if printed out and a whole lawfirm to keep in order.
What's so bad about this?
The possibility FW will discontinue any "basic" Heresy armour mark kits that GW do in plastic, thus humping people who would prefer the look/material/poses of FW's kits and aren't finished collecting their armies yet.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game.
The possibility GW will produce Age of Sigmar-style kiddie-menu rules for their Heresy game, and make FW stop producing their good rules so the GW gakshow doesn't have to compete with them.
The possibility that GW producing plastic Heresy and shifting FW product over to the main website signals their intent to "clamp down" on FW and eliminate all the positive behaviours vets like them for, such as sharing info & teasers about upcoming product well in advance.
The possibility GW producing plastic Heresy models will free up FW to work on other things, then those other things turn out to be Age of Sigmar and yet more SM shoulderpads(yes, I know, since some folk around here apparently need it spelled out; I am taking the piss with this last one).
How likely any of the issues people are worried about actually are we don't know, probably mildly unlikely, hell we might even see FW return to its glory days and produce all sorts of niche wonderment like returned Specialist Games or more frequent and more varied Imperial Armour books, but it's indicative of GW's abysmal community management and outreach that a significant group of potential customers look at what should be a universally positive product tease and get a sick feeling of dread.
So at least half of the things that are bad about this are that the stuff is getting cheaper?
We don't know how much cheaper it's going to be, and we don't know how much of a quality drop there'll be, particularly if GW take over things like characters and legion specific units, and particularly the books. I don't care if the books from GW would be £30 instead of £70, the quality of FW books vs GW books is night and day, and I sincerely hope GW doesn't touch that side of things. GW making things like Tac marines in plastic is good news. If they take over any more than that, it can very quickly become awful news.
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Post by: Bronzefists42
Seeing as their have been a whopping two models shown for this release and their is close to a 100+ different Models and kits in the FW HH line I'm gonna guess that GW will stick with the absolute basics (infantry and HQ) and leave all the "difficult" stuff to FW.
Also FW HH books make geedubs money. Lots of money if their top ten sales emails are to be believed. They're stupid but not suicidal.
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Post by: Dawnbringer
 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Also FW HH books make geedubs money. Lots of money if their top ten sales emails are to be believed. They're stupid but not suicidal.
I present exhibit A: The Hobbit line...
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Post by: JeneralJoe117
I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.
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Post by: Yodhrin
Bronzefists42 wrote:Seeing as their have been a whopping two models shown for this release and their is close to a 100+ different Models and kits in the FW HH line I'm gonna guess that GW will stick with the absolute basics (infantry and HQ) and leave all the "difficult" stuff to FW.
Also FW HH books make geedubs money. Lots of money if their top ten sales emails are to be believed. They're stupid but not suicidal.
I agree, hence why I said it's mildly unlikely(and that's from my own cynical perspective), but it's not outside the realms of possibility for GW to take a sure-thing and do seemingly bizarre and counter-productive things with it(see: Space Hulk, the recent glut of brand-devaluing shovelware game licenses); Heresy makes GW a nice chunk of change through FW, but given the egos sitting at the top table I wouldn't put it past them to groupthink themselves into believing it could make even more money if they took creative control from FW and broke every bone in it's metaphorical body to cram it into an AoS-shaped hole.
The most rational thing - and again, still the most likely, before anyone else throws a hissy-fit at me - is that they'll do exactly what the leak suggests; produce plastics of "core" parts of the range to increase the potential playerbase so extracting more revenue, and freeing FW to either accelerate the HH release schedule or to devote to other projects. But, before AoS lots of folk thought the most rational and likely path for GW to take was to revamp fantasy to lower the barrier to entry, tighten up the rules, and more effectively leverage their rich 30-year old IP, and instead they gave us, well, AoS. Whatever your views on the merits of that series of decisions and the resulting product, they seemed so weird to so many people that a lot of folk point-blank refused to believe it was going to happen even after we started hearing rumours about it.
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Post by: Brother SRM
 JeneralJoe117 wrote:I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.
I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.
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Post by: Alpharius
 Brother SRM wrote: JeneralJoe117 wrote:I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.
I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.
I think that back then it was more from a place of "We're not going to do this anytime soon, but these guys need an answer of sorts, so here's a somewhat tongue-in-cheek 'timeframe' for them!"
And then GW either saw the sales numbers from the BL HH Series and/or did actually get desperate and...here we are!
Most likely a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, or sorts?
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Post by: Nocturnus
 Dawnbringer wrote: Bronzefists42 wrote:
Also FW HH books make geedubs money. Lots of money if their top ten sales emails are to be believed. They're stupid but not suicidal.
I present exhibit A: The Hobbit line...
I am pretty sure that they were still under contract with New Line. Plus, the original LOTR stuff did make them a lot of money. I am sure they thought The Hobbit would do the same. And let's be honest. The Hobbit movies were bloody awful...
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Post by: Wonderwolf
I think you've got it the wrong way round.
FW has been in tough times. Loss of Games Days and similar events saw their main source of revenue collapse. Pricey and failed experiments like Warhammer Forge on top.
Plastic HH Marines is pushing more people into the game, eventually expanding with FW stuff, especially if the GW version is an Execution-Force-style board game and the "wargame" stays with FW.
This is GW-main giving FW a shot in the arm, not the other way round.
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Post by: Alpharius
Maybe?
Who really knows?
But was most likely a throwaway joke line has in fact become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Well, if GW really is in trouble, of course.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Wonderwolf wrote:I think you've got it the wrong way round.
FW has been in tough times. Loss of Games Days and similar events saw their main source of revenue collapse. Pricey and failed experiments like Warhammer Forge on top.
Plastic HH Marines is pushing more people into the game, eventually expanding with FW stuff, especially if the GW version is an Execution-Force-style board game and the "wargame" stays with FW.
This is GW-main giving FW a shot in the arm, not the other way round.
FW Horus Heresy seems to have been doing very, very well. I think them starting that was their shot in the arm.
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Post by: Wonderwolf
ImAGeek wrote:
FW Horus Heresy seems to have been doing very, very well. I think them starting that was their shot in the arm.
In 2012/2013? Big World Eaters display on the UK Games Day, the first HH book, the release of Angron? Black Library not entirely fethed up yet? People queuing for full days to get FW stuff. Sure. It was the good times.
In 2014/2015? I don't think so. No Games Days. Falling attendance of HH-Weekenders? Black Library's HH-series in a total mess, with fewer people caring every day. Bad times, at least relative to those previous years at least (which, like GW's financial reports, it is often the relative drops in sales/revenue people look at).
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Post by: zedmeister
Wonderwolf wrote:
In 2014/2015? I don't think so. No Games Days. Falling attendance of HH-Weekenders? Black Library's HH-series in a total mess, with fewer people caring every day. Bad times, at least relative to those previous years at least (which, like GW's financial reports, it is often the relative drops in sales/revenue people look at).
Genuinely curious at how you've come to that conclusion. Granted, the Black Library series completely lost me along the way. Forgeworld is the last area of interest for me and my interest in 40k/30k, so I'd hate to see it come undone. Any particular rumours or insights you've heard that you care to share or any patterns you've noticed?
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Post by: -Shrike-
JeneralJoe117 wrote:I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.
Nah, it honestly makes sense. Making plastic kits of the basic units frees up a lot of production capacity for FW, allowing them to concentrate on all the far more awesome unique units. The 'break glass' strategy is lowering their prices. 
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Alpharius wrote: Brother SRM wrote: JeneralJoe117 wrote:I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.
I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.
I think that back then it was more from a place of "We're not going to do this anytime soon, but these guys need an answer of sorts, so here's a somewhat tongue-in-cheek 'timeframe' for them!"
And then GW either saw the sales numbers from the BL HH Series and/or did actually get desperate and...here we are!
Most likely a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, or sorts?
Most likely just a logical extension of GW's policy of the last few years of wringing the last few dollars out of grognards drunk on nostalgia by dredging up concepts from before the turn of the millennium.
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Post by: Fango
I'm just now seeing this (and the photos of the sprues)...and I must say that this may get me to spend some money on 40k again, even if it is just to make a small Dark Angels Legion display collection since the game, in its current form, no longer interests me in the least. I would very much like to see the Deimos pattern tanks get a plastic kit. I got one of the forge world ones, and cant justify buying more at their prices, plus the side panels cast in resin just don't hold the precision of a plastic kit and really take some work to look right and flush with the plastic parts of the kit. Apologies if this has been asked and answered already (I don't have time to pick through all 25 pages in this thread), but is there any info an when these are likely to get released?
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Post by: Wonderwolf
 zedmeister wrote:
Genuinely curious at how you've come to that conclusion. Granted, the Black Library series completely lost me along the way. Forgeworld is the last area of interest for me and my interest in 40k/30k, so I'd hate to see it come undone. Any particular rumours or insights you've heard that you care to share or any patterns you've noticed?
Do you collect a Heresy army?
If so, how much did you spend on it in GW's financial year 2012/2013 (starting with Angron and the first HH book) compared to GW's recent financial year 2014/2015
Patterns I've noticed are the drop in HH-weekenders, which used to sell out in seconds and don't sell out at all anymore. No Games Days, etc..
Forge World is servicing a loyal audience of 30K-fans, but those people tend to have a large collection by now and mostly buy only pieces. They aren't going to splurge on new armies like they did in 2013.
Without Games Days especially, they are limited in how they bring in "new blood" (even if new blood for FW is veteran GW-customers).
It's also been in the discussion about the "End of Games Days" that this was a huge blow for FW. Not going to dig up the threads and links, but the gist of it was, Games Days were unprofitable for GW-main, because they closed down lots of stores on a weekend (in the US, the UK, etc., where the event happened to be), ferried the staff to the event, paid the venue, overheads, etc.. and rarely sold more than they would've sold in their stores over the same weekend, if they hadn't moved the staff to the event.
Not for Forge World though. No overheads for them, but frequently FW was the "main event" of the Games Day. They certainly were in 2012 in the UK with the launch of 30K. I seem to remember reading on Dakka, that FW revenue was > 50% from Games Days in their heyday, but I could be mis-remembering.
Either way, HH-weekenders and the like are less attractive, as FW has to pay the overheads for those, and while still nice, they service more to the customers already "in" the 30K-hobby. There'll be less people only vaguely aware of FW, who wonder buy and get that "I must play that" moment. FW still sells on "events". That's why they go to Salute, etc... they depend on events like this in ways GW doesn't (I know, same company and all... somebody at GW is still looking what is profitable and what isn't).
Plastic Heresy could well serve that purpose. It shows up in GW stores and will be more visible to "GW-main-customers", enticing them to start a Heresy army. And of course, it could also entice 30K-veterans to start a second (third, fourth) Heresy-army, which they might not have done in resin, if they already the stuff they bought two or three years ago.
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Post by: Rayvon
Not sure where you got the information about the weekenders, I know people not able to get a ticket for the last one, and I was unable to get tickets for the Forge world open day at the last minute, they do sell out.
The money that went in for the warlord alone shows that there are people out there with plenty still to burn.
There aremany 30k fans that have not yet unleashed their wallets and are waiting for the right armies.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
I highly doubt the release of HH in GW plastic is going to have a negative effect on FW. Not unless it is a sizeable release that cannibalizes sales. From the looks of it, this is a single mark of armor, we have seen nothing to indicate it will be more than that. The terminators look to be monopose, so if you want your own custom stuff, you go to FW. If they do release the Contemptor, it will probably be monopose like the DV Helbrute. If it is a kit, it will probably not have all the weapon options. Want more options? Go to FW.
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Post by: Nvs
And that's probably why they did this...
GW plastics at a premium price and you have to pay the FW tax for upgrade bits.
This way FW can go back to focusing on upgrade pieces only and not have to provide a chest piece for everyone.
GW then gets to release a bare minimum of kits focused around their largest customer base. Space Marine.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Rayvon wrote:
Not sure where you got the information about the weekenders, I know people not able to get a ticket for the last one, and I was unable to get tickets for the Forge world open day at the last minute, they do sell out.
The money that went in for the warlord alone shows that there are people out there with plenty still to burn.
There aremany 30k fans that have not yet unleashed their wallets and are waiting for the right armies.
Yeah exactly. There's 5 legions still to be released, two being Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, that loads of people are waiting for. And I'm pretty sure the weekenders and open days do sell out still.
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Post by: -Shrike-
ImAGeek wrote: Rayvon wrote:
Not sure where you got the information about the weekenders, I know people not able to get a ticket for the last one, and I was unable to get tickets for the Forge world open day at the last minute, they do sell out.
The money that went in for the warlord alone shows that there are people out there with plenty still to burn.
There aremany 30k fans that have not yet unleashed their wallets and are waiting for the right armies.
Yeah exactly. There's 5 legions still to be released, two being Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, that loads of people are waiting for. And I'm pretty sure the weekenders and open days do sell out still.
Holding out for Thousand Sons here. And the Open Day 2015 sold out a long time before the actual vent, because I was a bit pissed off I didn't manage to get a ticket in time!
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Post by: Captain Vyper
Back in the later days of 2nd Ed, and not too shortly after FW came on the block , the "break glass in case of bankruptcy" joke used to be about the Tom having the Masters to all the Primarchs in a display case behind his desk at GW HQ. The belief back then was the release of those bad boys would be enough to right any sinking ship! Ah the old days.....
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Post by: evildrcheese
Is there no clue when these kits are going to drop?
Seems odd that we've had fairly decent pics, but not a sniff if info about when the release might be...
D
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Post by: Commander Cain
This is just a guess but I get the feeling we will be seeing them sooner rather than later, maybe even August or September if we are lucky.
Given that we did not see any pics of the other models rumoured for the set (Cataphrapctii, the Conteptor, and possibly another 10 marines) I get the feeling that this is a deliberate leak by GW and that they are trying to build up a bit of hype for a new release that is coming up soon, especially as we never get these kinds of leaks these days!
All that being said it does seem a bit odd if it comes out this close to AoS and the new marine codex so perhaps it is going to be a Christmas release?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
I wonder if the other rumored 10 marines will be of a different armor Mark. A lot of people really want Mk II or III. I would be okay with it just being another set of Mk IV, but I would also take Mk V.
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Post by: Hanskrampf
New Forgeworld webstore (mentioned in the financial report) is set for summer 2015, I guess it would be a good time to release this kit and promote Forgeworld with it. There is a Tau codex rumoured for autumn, so I guess this could mark the end for initial AoS releases.
I'm also guessing late August/September.
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Post by: reds8n
Brother SRM wrote: JeneralJoe117 wrote:I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.
I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.
I've always heard, and believed, that the break glass action would involve the 2 missing Primachs in some fashion.
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Post by: Looky Likey
They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:
Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.
All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.
The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I always thought it was odd GW had a NY Times best selling series and refused to support it with models.
Better late than never I guess.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Why not? They turned a NY times best selling series into a pathetic cash grab of novellas and special editions...
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Kid_Kyoto wrote:I always thought it was odd GW had a NY Times best selling series and refused to support it with models.
Better late than never I guess.
Nope. They took care of it years ago but not having a NYT bestselling series any more.
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Post by: Theophony
 Looky Likey wrote:They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:
Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.
All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.
The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.
You forgot plastic sisters of battle.
They could always reprint Necromunda,Bloodbowl, Mordheim, epic and gorkamorka without updating the rules
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
 Theophony wrote: Looky Likey wrote:They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass: Plastic Warhound & Reaver Plastic Thunderhawk Release the two missing legions Plastic 30k Emp. reborn etc. All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes. The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.
You forgot plastic sisters of battle. They could always reprint Necromunda,Bloodbowl, Mordheim, epic and gorkamorka without updating the rules
Pffft, nobody wants those! I mean Gorkamorka? Nobody finds souped up cars covered in spikes and makeshift guns roaring through the desert with their drivers and passengers hanging off the sides entertaining any more! No, what people want is yet more variations of plastic space marines which are only slightly different to those already available but double the price. That's what people want.
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Post by: boyd
ImAGeek wrote: Rayvon wrote:
Not sure where you got the information about the weekenders, I know people not able to get a ticket for the last one, and I was unable to get tickets for the Forge world open day at the last minute, they do sell out.
The money that went in for the warlord alone shows that there are people out there with plenty still to burn.
There aremany 30k fans that have not yet unleashed their wallets and are waiting for the right armies.
Yeah exactly. There's 5 legions still to be released, two being Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, that loads of people are waiting for. And I'm pretty sure the weekenders and open days do sell out still.
I'm interested in the Dark Angels - they were my first purchases in 40K. I love the fluff and their look. I just don't have the desire to spend the money to buy the power armor marines I want - same with my Word Bearers. Also, if I had people to game with, I would be more inclined to make the purchase. I'm probably going to buy several of these sets because I've always been a big fan of power armor and the HH setting. The fact that I can also use them in my normal 40K army is just the icing on the cake. If I only have a couple of extra purchases to bring them in line with 40K, then its a good deal for me.
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Post by: warboss
Theophony wrote: Looky Likey wrote:They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:
Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.
All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.
The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.
You forgot plastic sisters of battle.
I believe he is referring to things that would sell, not just shut up a vocal few.
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Post by: Bronzefists42
I have at least 10 Mk II/III sitting in my garage so I don't mind mark IV's being plastic.
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Post by: Rayvon
I have a Ford cortina in mine, I do not mind either.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Posted a few minutes ago in Warseer's Horus Heresy Plastic-topic, I don't know how reliable it is
O.G-Palmer;7511583 wrote:Pre order next Saturday then another for the following week.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?411615-Horus-Heresy-Plastics-in-late-2015&p=7511583&viewfull=1#post7511583
That early would be quite a surprise
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Post by: -Shrike-
That would be really early. Is that poster on Pretre's rumourmonger tracker?
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Post by: Sad Panda
Not what I heard.
Should be another ~2 months AoS. Tau after that. It's still a while off.
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Post by: Theophony
You know.....unless AoS is not doing as good as they expected and they decided to bring the HH stuff out early.
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Post by: Bull0
I don't think they can be quite as reactive as that, since they have ads and features for the pre-orders in white dwarf so there's the lead time on printing, etc. On the other hand, we went from 1 unit and maybe 1 character per week to a unit, several terrain kits, and a book all in one week - so it's possible they've collapsed the release schedule. Either way though I think they'd have had to have made the decision a while ago.
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Post by: Accolade
Hey, I think it would be a good strategy on GW's part. This way they can bounce from selling marines in 40k to marines in Fantasy to marines in 30k, and then maybe dash in some repackaging of an old fantasy race, and you've got a cycle for the next few years!
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Post by: Warhams-77
Sad Panda, the rumors that it will be a boardgame are correct? Have you heard anything about its content? Automatically Appended Next Post:  -Shrike- wrote:That would be really early. Is that poster on Pretre's rumourmonger tracker?
No, but he is well connected with some GW people according to his earlier posts. He posted some good hints scenery-wise afaik (see his other posts on Warseer). But with the Panda saying nope, it is not looking good for a Heresy preorder next week...
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Post by: Talys
 warboss wrote: Theophony wrote: Looky Likey wrote:They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:
Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.
All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.
The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.
You forgot plastic sisters of battle.
I believe he is referring to things that would sell, not just shut up a vocal few.
Awwwww everyone <3 plastic nuns with guns
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Post by: Warhams-77
*Sigh* More AoS and no HH yet according to Darnok
Darnok - Warseeer
Re: Horus Heresy Plastics in late 2015
There is still a lot of releases for AoS in line before the HH game is due.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?411615-Horus-Heresy-Plastics-in-late-2015&p=7511653&viewfull=1#post7511653
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Post by: Revarien
warboss wrote: Theophony wrote: Looky Likey wrote:They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:
Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.
All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.
The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.
You forgot plastic sisters of battle.
I believe he is referring to things that would sell, not just shut up a vocal few.
'Sisters of Battle' being the second most searched for item (the first being 'forgeworld') in the 40k section of ebay is not just a 'vocal few', they're sitting on a gold mine in their IP and don't know it, but w/e.
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Post by: rowboatjellyfanxiii
Now I can buy ten man beakie squads!!!
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Post by: Bull0
 Revarien wrote: warboss wrote: Theophony wrote: Looky Likey wrote:They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:
Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.
All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.
The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.
You forgot plastic sisters of battle.
I believe he is referring to things that would sell, not just shut up a vocal few.
'Sisters of Battle' being the second most searched for item (the first being 'forgeworld') in the 40k section of ebay is not just a 'vocal few', they're sitting on a gold mine in their IP and don't know it, but w/e.
It's just a running joke on here to antagonise SoB fans in this manner, don't take it seriously.
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Post by: Bronzefists42
I feel like "most searched on EBay" does not equal "tons of SoB players." It probably has more to do with the bloated price points on SoB models and difficulty to obtain SoB heavy weapon squads.
I've played for 6 years now and met a grand total of 2 SoB players. Even on huge forums like this SoB players are few and far between.
Unless you can pull concrete information that SoB are some unexplored patch of pure gold with a massive player base I think it's safe to call the players a "vocal minority."
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Post by: CrashGordon94
Then again it seems like that's mostly BECAUSE of all the pain with Sisters and many would play them if they had more support.
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Post by: Lockark
 CrashGordon94 wrote:Then again it seems like that's mostly BECAUSE of all the pain with Sisters and many would play them if they had more support.
With how bloated modren GW plastics are priced at, I would say many people WOULD HAVE played sisters of battle had they had plastics 3 or 5 years ago.
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Post by: CrashGordon94
That could be the case too, potentially.
Still, it does seem like it would be a fairly solid idea, particularly compared to some of their recent ideas.
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Post by: Azreal13
Can we please not have another essentially unrelated thread devolve into the Lamentations of the Sisters Players?
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
 Azreal13 wrote:Can we please not have another essentially unrelated thread devolve into the Lamentations of the Sisters Players?
Yeah. Besides, everyone knows that the Tau are in much greater need of plastics than sisters. We don't even have plastic Vespid for gods sake
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Post by: migooo
*Twitch*
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Post by: hanshotfirst
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK
i squeek with exitement.
MUST BUY MOAR MUST WORK EXTRA HOURS!
SELLING KIDNEYS-CHECK
SELLING CAR-CHECK
SELLING-SUPER AWESOME MAGIC CARD COLLECTION-CHECK
i am all reacy for impulse buying 10 plastic HH starter kits-CHECK
Automatically Appended Next Post:
if this is true i will sh*t myself with rainbows and joy and tacos.
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Post by: Talys
Bronzefists42 wrote:I feel like "most searched on EBay" does not equal "tons of SoB players." It probably has more to do with the bloated price points on SoB models and difficulty to obtain SoB heavy weapon squads.
I've played for 6 years now and met a grand total of 2 SoB players. Even on huge forums like this SoB players are few and far between.
Unless you can pull concrete information that SoB are some unexplored patch of pure gold with a massive player base I think it's safe to call the players a "vocal minority."
Yeah, but how many Assassin or Inquisition players have you met? A lot of people just like them for the models, and to mix them in with their other (complete) armies. I would never field (or model) a whole Sisters army, but I'd happily paint a few squads and vehicles, and play them together with other Imperium armies.
I've played for 25 years, by the way, and I've *never* met someone who plays Sisters in more than 50% of their games. Even the most devoted Sisters fans that I've met only sparingly play them, but I'd say that's a chicken and egg thing -- the models are ancient. If there were a full lineup of Sisters models, vehicles, and rules, at least to the degree of the Harlequins, I'm sure some people would play them as their favorite faction.
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Post by: migooo
I still play them as my main faction. I however only play second ed modified.
I've been promised plastic SoB for about 10 years at least. I've given up waiting for them. I've now invested in RH to provide that.
it's that simple logic GW do not care about them so why should I care about GW?.
This plastic HH is GW pushing the emergency button and you will see more stuff like this simply because GW is running scared.
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Post by: shade1313
Guess I better set some money aside, not just for the plastics, but for Alpha Legion bits from FW to go with them.
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Post by: motyak
Let's move on from sisters of battle and back to the topic, thanks.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
I can't see the HH plastics coming out in the next week or so. GW is doing their best to ram AoS down our throats right now. Unless the AoS sales are just that bad*, I can't see GW moving up the HH releases so early.
*I expect the initial sales of the new shiny AoS models may be pretty good, but I can't see that momentum lasting for more than a month.
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Post by: Azreal13
Would it be technically possible to adjust their schedule like that?
I suppose if the sprues are cast and packaged, it would just be a case of distributing stock to the various hubs and designing some new web pages and POS.
I'm not familiar with the print industry, would the lead time on WD be short enough now it's a smaller, weekly mag to allow for this?
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Post by: jah-joshua
good question, Az...
last time i spoke to anyone on the mag., the lead time was 3 months for an issue going to print, but that was before the switch...
it would be interesting to hear if, or how, that has shortened with the new format...
i don't see these guys going up for pre-order next week...
i could see them launching in time for Christmas...
i am not seeing how this HH set would be presented as a boardgame...
Space Hulk style???
Execution Force style???
something new???
a box like the old Battle for Armageddon game made sense with tiles and chits, representing larger forces with each chit, but on an individual mini basis, you would need a lot of tiles...
maybe a Zone Mortalis style, but with tiles, like Advanced Space Crusade...
Forge World's HH books use the 40K book as the core ruleset, right???
are they going to Sigmar the ruleset for 30K???
so many questions...
it will be interesting to see what happens...
all i know, is that the plastic Praetors look sexy, and mkiv is my favorite HH armor mark, so these plastic sprue shots make me very happy...
having plastic mkiv arms and legs gets me way more excited than it should ...
cheers
jah
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Post by: Bronzefists42
I'd die for an advanced space crusade.
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Post by: Warhams-77
According to the original rumor, from Hastings in Feb, the first of the new HH releases will be a boardgame with new plastic miniatures (these on the already leaked pictures but more, incl. Cataphractii and Contemptor). He mentioned Assassinorum: Execution Force as an example of how that will look like. He was also the only rumor source for A: EF, so in addition to his general reliability there is a good chance he has the entire picture of this release correct as well. After the boardgame according to him there will be an HH product series from GW with its own rules. The stats for example will be different to the 40k ones and they will both be in the construction manuals.
With Sad Panda and Darnok saying no to HH next weekend, it won't be. Shops should have been informed already btw, maybe someone in the know chimes in with the newest preorder list so we can solve that question.
Hastings also mentioned the boardgame lets you play in the early days of the Heresy. Maybe battles inside buildings? Anything specific in the lore that would fit? Or a skirmisher like Mordheim?
All the info was very vague...
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Post by: Azreal13
Hunting down loyalists in the ruins of Istvaan III might work.
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Post by: silent25
Azreal13 wrote:Hunting down loyalists in the ruins of Istvaan III might work.
Don't think it will be that bleak. Maybe escaping Istavann III and seizing of the Eisenstein?
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Post by: SickSix
Wow, so it's true.
Okay, but are there MkIII helmets and armor? That's really the only mark of armor I want.
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Post by: CrashGordon94
Azreal13 wrote:Would it be technically possible to adjust their schedule like that?
I suppose if the sprues are cast and packaged, it would just be a case of distributing stock to the various hubs and designing some new web pages and POS.
I'm not familiar with the print industry, would the lead time on WD be short enough now it's a smaller, weekly mag to allow for this?
If nothing else, if they have stuff ready but are waiting to cast/package/ship it, they could "shuffle" it in front of something else also ready to be cast/packaged/shipped.
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Post by: ImAGeek
CrashGordon94 wrote: Azreal13 wrote:Would it be technically possible to adjust their schedule like that?
I suppose if the sprues are cast and packaged, it would just be a case of distributing stock to the various hubs and designing some new web pages and POS.
I'm not familiar with the print industry, would the lead time on WD be short enough now it's a smaller, weekly mag to allow for this?
If nothing else, if they have stuff ready but are waiting to cast/package/ship it, they could "shuffle" it in front of something else also ready to be cast/packaged/shipped.
Yeah but only if the lead time on White Dwarf is short enough to facilitate that, or the WD won't match the product being released.
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Post by: rowboatjellyfanxiii
Finally, something I can actually buy from the Horus Heresy range that won't leave me to survive on beans on toast for a month.
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Post by: Azreal13
With GW, I wouldn't make any assumptions on price!
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Post by: migooo
Azreal13 wrote:Would it be technically possible to adjust their schedule like that?
I suppose if the sprues are cast and packaged, it would just be a case of distributing stock to the various hubs and designing some new web pages and POS.
I'm not familiar with the print industry, would the lead time on WD be short enough now it's a smaller, weekly mag to allow for this?
I think with weekly magazines the turn around is usually 6 weeks.
But with others it's a week by week basis so if they are still printed in Poland then 6 weeks if they are in the country they distribute to I think the schedule is far more flexible
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
 silent25 wrote: Azreal13 wrote:Hunting down loyalists in the ruins of Istvaan III might work.
Don't think it will be that bleak. Maybe escaping Istavann III and seizing of the Eisenstein?
Almost... Wrong legions and warzone but you have the right idea.
Also the contents rumours are slightly wrong. The forces aren't an exact mirror of one another. One force is a Pride of the Legion style force. Some might even call it a boarding party... The other is based off normal Tac. Marines.
As for the ship name, I don't think the game is based on this particular ship, but I'd go with the "Tribune." Or one of the other warships in that warzone anyway.
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Post by: ImAGeek
So... Phall? Imperial Fists vs Iron Warriors... Cool.
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Post by: Melcavuk
Cheap plastic breacher marines would be awesome. Anything I can use for my restart of HH IF would be good
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Post by: Lockark
The iron warriors and imperial fists are both mk2/3 armies not mk 4.
Not that they didn't have mk4. Just not the armour they were known for.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Lockark wrote:The iron warriors and imperial fists are both mk2/3 armies not mk 4.
Not that they didn't have mk4. Just not the armour they were known for.
Iron Warriors have quite a lot of MkIV, in Extermination at least. Mostly MkII and MkIV shown for them. And actually the IF got quite a bit of MkIV after they quelled the rebellion on Mars but I'm not sure if that was before or after Phall. They're probably not the armour most people think of when they think those legions though yeah.
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Post by: Lockark
Phall was happening as the death of innocence was beginning on Mars. So phall was before the IF took back Mars and got their mk4 plate.
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Post by: BattleSpecter
I actually like this idea. The SM army I am making will have a wide array of Marines from various chapters (some wearing older armor as they are OLD). As such, this will ease and cheapen my life with regards to creating some really nifty conversions. The only thing is I am a penny pinching snob bucket. So I will shop accordingly...
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
Dollars to donuts the HH ruleset is 40k AoSified
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Post by: Revarien
This is somthing I've been mulling around with too - it'd be an entry point into the game (getting you plenty of marine models) and have easier rules, without messing with the 40k universe or rule set.
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Post by: Bronzefists42
I can't care less any about the GeeDubs HH ruleset.
I just want some cheap heresy infantry.
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Post by: aka_mythos
I imagine the HH plastics are largely just gonna be the most basic models... Tactical Squad, Rhino, etc... With FW simply redoing certain units and models as add-ons to the plastics. This move is to optimize the FW sales by shifting the highest volume FW models to a higher margin plastic form and replacing the FW sales with lower cost and better margin per kit add-ons.
As far a the setting of a Heresy era board game like this goes, I think the Scouring would appropriate as its a smaller scope to the game with Chaos forces breaking down into smaller and smaller forces in the guerrilla retreat to the Eye of Terror and the Loyalist following suit just to be able to follow in every direction..
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Post by: 455_PWR
Anyone know who the loyalist faction will be since the traitor legion character is supposedly an iron warrior?
I am loving plastic Horus Heresy... I may yet start a legion of my own.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 455_PWR wrote:Anyone know who the loyalist faction will be since the traitor legion character is supposedly an iron warrior?
I am loving plastic Horus Heresy... I may yet start a legion of my own.
Imperial Fists, if it is set at Phall.
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Post by: Verviedi
Ultramarines because GW.
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
Ding ding, we have a winner.
If I remember rightly the box has around 44 models. Including 3 Mk4 boxes, terminators, cataphracti and the two characters.
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Post by: BrookM
Cataphractii are Terminators, unless you mean that we're getting both Tartaros and Cataphractii suits of armour.
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
BrookM wrote:Cataphractii are Terminators, unless you mean that we're getting both Tartaros and Cataphractii suits of armour.
Contemptors and Cataphracti, my bad. My fingers were moving quicker than my mind there. Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by: ImAGeek
So 30 marines, 10 Cataphractii, 2 characters and 2 Contemptors? Sounds good, but also sounds expensive.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Sounds like the £75 price point a la Dark Macragge Millenium Vengeancestorm or whatever the latest 40K starter is called.
And HH is GENIUS for GW, as one basic model makes the rank and file for BOTH factions. Hurrah! And they can sell upgrade kits to personalise to your chosen side! Huzzah!
PRINT MORE MONEY GUYS, WE'RE GONNA NEED IT!
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Post by: Commissar-Danno
 JohnnyHell wrote:Sounds like the £75 price point a la Dark Macragge Millenium Vengeancestorm or whatever the latest 40K starter is called.
And HH is GENIUS for GW, as one basic model makes the rank and file for BOTH factions. Hurrah! And they can sell upgrade kits to personalise to your chosen side! Huzzah!
PRINT MORE MONEY GUYS, WE'RE GONNA NEED IT!
Greenbacks for the greenbacks god, coins for the coin throne
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Post by: Melcavuk
At £75 for that box of true it's gonna be a bargain, I expect riots if limited. Buying those models from forgeworld would be about £400 by my guess (201 tacticals with guns, 100 ish terminators, about 80 in contemptors and then charafters)
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Post by: ImAGeek
Yeah it's gonna be more than that if the contents are true. Or at least I'd be very, very surprised if it was that cheap.
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Post by: Azreal13
I wouldn't be surprised if this tests if enough people will buy a starter/boxed game with a three figure RRP.
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Post by: Nevelon
If it has the rules for 30k in a softback rulebook, I’m in. One of the things keeping me from the slippery slope of the heresy is the cost of the FW rulebooks. I’ve got plenty of PA bodies kicking around.
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Post by: Wonderwolf
 Nevelon wrote:If it has the rules for 30k in a softback rulebook, I’m in. One of the things keeping me from the slippery slope of the heresy is the cost of the FW rulebooks. I’ve got plenty of PA bodies kicking around.
Doubt it. It's supposed to be a contained board game like Execution Force, no? Execution Force didn't have a 40K rulebook.
Also, army lists aside, rules are identical to 40K anyways, no? I always thought the FW books were more Codex-things, not actual rulebooks?
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Post by: -Shrike-
Wonderwolf wrote: Nevelon wrote:If it has the rules for 30k in a softback rulebook, I’m in. One of the things keeping me from the slippery slope of the heresy is the cost of the FW rulebooks. I’ve got plenty of PA bodies kicking around.
Doubt it. It's supposed to be a contained board game like Execution Force, no? Execution Force didn't have a 40K rulebook.
Also, army lists aside, rules are identical to 40K anyways, no? I always thought the FW books were more Codex-things, not actual rulebooks?
Yep. The big leather books have all of the fluff and rules, the red books contain all of the rules from several of those. So, if you wanted to build a 30k mechanicum list, you'd only need the little red book they're bringing out in the next few months.
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Post by: BrookM
If the listed contents are true, really looking forward to the upcoming release now, I've already got both red books plus book V, so I can easily field Ultramarines or Imperial Fists, not sure which yet.
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Post by: Wonderwolf
-Shrike- wrote:Wonderwolf wrote: Nevelon wrote:If it has the rules for 30k in a softback rulebook, I’m in. One of the things keeping me from the slippery slope of the heresy is the cost of the FW rulebooks. I’ve got plenty of PA bodies kicking around.
Doubt it. It's supposed to be a contained board game like Execution Force, no? Execution Force didn't have a 40K rulebook.
Also, army lists aside, rules are identical to 40K anyways, no? I always thought the FW books were more Codex-things, not actual rulebooks?
Yep. The big leather books have all of the fluff and rules, the red books contain all of the rules from several of those. So, if you wanted to build a 30k mechanicum list, you'd only need the little red book they're bringing out in the next few months.
Cool. Nice if the rules are inside. But they are the 40K rules? No? Or are they different? Still the old IGO-UGO, BS, WS, T, S, LD, basic move 6", Look out Sir, Charge +1 Attack, 2D6 to charge, Hull Points, Snap Shots, Jink, Scatter Dice, etc, etc.., etc.... rules we know from 40K?
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Post by: BrookM
You still use the standard 7th edition 40k rules, with some minor changes to the mission structure here and there.
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
I sort of mentioned it before but the game will provide two legal armies out the box if you split with a friend, or one big one.
One built as Vets. and Cataphracti led by the Praetor. The other with two Tac. Squads as troops choices.
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Post by: Bronzefists42
Judging by the sprues you can probably just make one big army (like I am).
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Post by: Melcavuk
At those costs I'd be grabbing two boxes just for myself. The power armour torsos look like a good way to cheapen out the cost of the phalanx breacher upgrades, and being bolter arms are all compatible with the legion heavy weapons.
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Post by: shade1313
ImAGeek wrote:So 30 marines, 10 Cataphractii, 2 characters and 2 Contemptors? Sounds good, but also sounds expensive.
If those are really the contents, then I'll be doubling what I'd planned on buying if it'd just been the marines and characters.
But what's really going to put me in the poorhouse are the Alpha Legion shoulder pads, heads, and torsos, and the Rhino and Land Raider doors.
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Post by: RedFox
WhispererofTruth wrote:I sort of mentioned it before but the game will provide two legal armies out the box if you split with a friend, or one big one.
One built as Vets. and Cataphracti led by the Praetor. The other with two Tac. Squads as troops choices.
but is it a board game? are we gonna see actual spaceship tiles ?
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Post by: Hulksmash
Yeah, depending on the sprues I'd definitely grab 1 and probably a second. Bits might hurt a bit but not to bad and that would be all the marines I'd ever need
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
 Melcavuk wrote:At £75 for that box of true it's gonna be a bargain, I expect riots if limited. Buying those models from forgeworld would be about £400 by my guess (201 tacticals with guns, 100 ish terminators, about 80 in contemptors and then charafters)
It's clearly going to be limited as the rumours (from those who were right about the plastics in the first place) say the sprues are going to get their own release later,
and if the choice is a cheap starter or some sort or the same stuff in more expensive split boxes that's not going to work
the big question is if it's going to be a really limited release ... buy it in the first couple of weeks or you're out of luck, or a more sustained release (eg available for 3 or 6 months with more being produced if demand is there
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Post by: Melcavuk
At those contents I'd be preordering two as soon as it goes up provided its sub 100 in price
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
 RedFox wrote: WhispererofTruth wrote:I sort of mentioned it before but the game will provide two legal armies out the box if you split with a friend, or one big one.
One built as Vets. and Cataphracti led by the Praetor. The other with two Tac. Squads as troops choices.
but is it a board game? are we gonna see actual spaceship tiles ?
Not sure tbh. Any "tiles" or board included would be cardboard though. The idea of this new boxed game trend, yes trend there will be more, is based entirely on what made 3rd ed Space Hulk so successful. A bunch of models you can to your army and a "free" game included.
As for those asking if this is limited. Yes it is, the characters in the box specifically. Everything else will form part of a new range which is kicking off fully next year. There'll be 2-3 months of plastic 30k releases next year at the minimum. Mostly SM stuff, but more Mechanicum too. Most of the Mechanicum stuff that has been released already, you'll be able to use in 30k.
I initially heard the contents of the box would drop 6 months after it's general release. However, I'm beginning to think, in light of the recent AoS release, that we'll get a 2nd wave of Heresy stuff in 6 months, with the box contents dropping before then. That is purely speculation on my part though.
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Post by: Requizen
WhispererofTruth wrote: RedFox wrote: WhispererofTruth wrote:I sort of mentioned it before but the game will provide two legal armies out the box if you split with a friend, or one big one.
One built as Vets. and Cataphracti led by the Praetor. The other with two Tac. Squads as troops choices.
but is it a board game? are we gonna see actual spaceship tiles ?
Not sure tbh. Any "tiles" or board included would be cardboard though. The idea of this new boxed game trend, yes trend there will be more, is based entirely on what made 3rd ed Space Hulk so successful. A bunch of models you can to your army and a "free" game included.
As for those asking if this is limited. Yes it is, the characters in the box specifically. Everything else will form part of a new range which is kicking off fully next year. There'll be 2-3 months of plastic 30k releases next year at the minimum. Mostly SM stuff, but more Mechanicum too. Most of the Mechanicum stuff that has been released already, you'll be able to use in 30k.
I initially heard the contents of the box would drop 6 months after it's general release. However, I'm beginning to think, in light of the recent AoS release, that we'll get a 2nd wave of Heresy stuff in 6 months, with the box contents dropping before then. That is purely speculation on my part though.
Mechanicum == Adeptus Mechanicus/Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus in this case?
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
Indeed. 
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Post by: Requizen
So I don't really understand the core of this. Is GW creating an entire line of 30k/HH units and rules to directly compete with the Forgewold versions? Or are they going to use the same rules?
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
The box will contain it's own rules and Forge World will continue to write their own for now. Whether that will change as 40k changes is anyone's guess.
The line is being produced because of the huge success of the HH from both FW and BL. When the HH turns your two daughter companies into very profitable parts of your business even the stupid take note.
On a personal note I really hope we don't see a full takeover from GW. To me that's as scary a thought as Nick Kyme writing the final duel on the Vengeful Spirit.
I
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Post by: Melcavuk
Whisper- Do you have any idea on the launch window for the main box if the followup is early next year?
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Post by: WhispererofTruth
Purely conjecture, but considering there's another 40k box you all know about that'll kicking around for a while. I'm going to go with; "While stocks last" on this one.
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Post by: Kosake
Requizen wrote:So I don't really understand the core of this. Is GW creating an entire line of 30k/ HH units and rules to directly compete with the Forgewold versions? Or are they going to use the same rules?
I think the beancounters just found out that some FW models sell well enough to create proper moulds for plastic casting. Maybe, and I know it's a stretch, but juuust maybe someone even thought that promoting the HH line would be a good idea too. Or maybe they just decided to give 30k a starter box. Who knows?
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Post by: gorgon
I may be wrong, but I really think this is also aimed at getting a little more 30K spending flowing to Nottingham instead of the Far East.
GW plastic prices will come in much lower than FW resin prices, and it's reasonable to think that more people will be willing to buy the real thing if the price isn't as staggering, especially from retailers who discount (which FW doesn't do either).
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Post by: Alpharius
 gorgon wrote:I may be wrong, but I really think this is also aimed at getting a little more 30K spending flowing to Nottingham instead of the Far East.
GW plastic prices will come in much lower than FW resin prices, and it's reasonable to think that more people will be willing to buy the real thing if the price isn't as staggering, especially from retailers who discount (which FW doesn't do either).
I hadn't thought of that but yes, that sounds entirely reasonable!
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Post by: Hulksmash
gorgon wrote:I may be wrong, but I really think this is also aimed at getting a little more 30K spending flowing to Nottingham instead of the Far East.
GW plastic prices will come in much lower than FW resin prices, and it's reasonable to think that more people will be willing to buy the real thing if the price isn't as staggering, especially from retailers who discount (which FW doesn't do either).
Add in that the additional stuff (like shoulder pads and helmets) aren't nearly as deeply discounted in the East vs. FW and this makes even more sense. Not to mention the capacity space it'll open up for FW.
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Post by: Bronzefists42
There's a big "Far East" Market for the infantry and special units.
There seems to be almost none for the Special characters, primarchs, Titans (obviously) and other FW bits and bobs.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
If it has what people are saying it has, I will definitely be getting a box just for myself. Will probably make it up as a Crimson Fists army instead of Imperial Fists and mix the tactial squads in with my existing army for more variation. If true, this set basically took care of my Gladius Strike Force problem (not enough tactical squads).
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Post by: Bronzefists42
If rumors are true I will probably make a small Pride of the Legion allied force for my WE (or perhaps some loyalist adversaries...)
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Post by: Hanskrampf
Bronzefists42 wrote:There's a big "Far East" Market for the infantry and special units.
There seems to be almost none for the Special characters, primarchs, Titans (obviously) and other FW bits and bobs.
You're kidding, right? Every new release gets recasted, including the Warlord titan.
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Post by: Lockark
 Hanskrampf wrote: Bronzefists42 wrote:There's a big "Far East" Market for the infantry and special units.
There seems to be almost none for the Special characters, primarchs, Titans (obviously) and other FW bits and bobs.
You're kidding, right? Every new release gets recasted, including the Warlord titan.
Trying to say this with out stepping on toes.... But I THINK what he is refering to is that the recasts of the basic HH marines are some of the 1st things that come up during casual searches on some websites. But I think this has more to do with search terms, and that the larger items you need to contact the recasters directly to get ahold of.
But you are correct that they bassicly do a blanket approach, and even recast larger more expensive GW plastic kits for the undercut.
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Post by: Jehan-reznor
I am cautiously excited the assassin game looked promising but when i saw the price, it killed my joy, Hope this will do not the same.
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Post by: Talys
Hanskrampf wrote: Bronzefists42 wrote:There's a big "Far East" Market for the infantry and special units.
There seems to be almost none for the Special characters, primarchs, Titans (obviously) and other FW bits and bobs.
You're kidding, right? Every new release gets recasted, including the Warlord titan.
Seriously? Someone rescast a Warlord Titan? LOL.
I would not have thought so, just because how many people actually want to buy one (even cheap...er) >.<
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Post by: Kirasu
 Talys wrote: Hanskrampf wrote: Bronzefists42 wrote:There's a big "Far East" Market for the infantry and special units.
There seems to be almost none for the Special characters, primarchs, Titans (obviously) and other FW bits and bobs.
You're kidding, right? Every new release gets recasted, including the Warlord titan.
Seriously? Someone rescast a Warlord Titan? LOL.
I would not have thought so, just because how many people actually want to buy one (even cheap...er) >.<
Of course they did. Shouldn't be too surprising and as usual it's around a third of the price.
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Post by: AllSeeingSkink
I'm somewhat torn, I kind of want Horus Heresy to do badly because I want GW to focus on something that isn't Space Marines/Sigmarines for once.
If the Sigmarines sell well and HH sells well it feels like only a matter of time GW can rebrand their stores once again, from "Warhammer" to "Space Marines 'R' Us".
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Post by: RexInvictus
Any sort of idea on timeline for when we'll be seeing these beauties?
AllSeeingSkink wrote:I'm somewhat torn, I kind of want Horus Heresy to do badly because I want GW to focus on something that isn't Space Marines/Sigmarines for once.
If the Sigmarines sell well and HH sells well it feels like only a matter of time GW can rebrand their stores once again, from "Warhammer" to "Space Marines 'R' Us".
To be honest, I like the idea of purely playing with Marines for once. I don't know how to describe it. It feels like if all that effort is going to go towards marines, at least it should be marine vs marine combat.
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Post by: Talys
Kirasu wrote:Of course they did. Shouldn't be too surprising and as usual it's around a third of the price.
Crazy! If I had a 15,000 sq ft house, I guess I would want one But if I had a 15,000 sq ft house, I probably wouldn't care about the price all that much and would get FW to strap one onto a carrier pigeon and fly it over ASAP.
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Post by: Alpharius
Come on guys - ON TOPIC please.
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Post by: Kalashnichris
Is it wrong that I'm planning to use a few $$ from my school loans to get this??lol
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Post by: Melcavuk
I'm budgetting 200ish for boxes and fw unit upgrades so long as it launches in the next two months, otherwise I'll get distracted by something else
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Post by: Revarien
Melcavuk wrote:I'm budgetting 200ish for boxes and fw unit upgrades so long as it launches in the next two months, otherwise I'll get distracted by something else
This happens to me regularly - this is why they should hype things properly (see: how WotC or Privateer Press does things). I end up wanting multiple things at first, but then 1 or none later due to no real information until BAM! - it's out.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Revarien wrote: Melcavuk wrote:I'm budgetting 200ish for boxes and fw unit upgrades so long as it launches in the next two months, otherwise I'll get distracted by something else
This happens to me regularly - this is why they should hype things properly (see: how WotC or Privateer Press does things). I end up wanting multiple things at first, but then 1 or none later due to no real information until BAM! - it's out.
On the other hand, FFG does stuff so far ahead that it is easy to forget about the new stuff when it finally comes out. I am still waiting for the Imperial Raider I preordered like 8 months ago, and we already know what is in Wave 7 AND 8, and the next Epic ship coming out.
Hope here is more to this first HH wave. Too bad noone has leaked the Contemptor or Cataphractii Terminators.
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Post by: shade1313
 MajorWesJanson wrote: Revarien wrote: Melcavuk wrote:I'm budgetting 200ish for boxes and fw unit upgrades so long as it launches in the next two months, otherwise I'll get distracted by something else
This happens to me regularly - this is why they should hype things properly (see: how WotC or Privateer Press does things). I end up wanting multiple things at first, but then 1 or none later due to no real information until BAM! - it's out.
On the other hand, FFG does stuff so far ahead that it is easy to forget about the new stuff when it finally comes out. I am still waiting for the Imperial Raider I preordered like 8 months ago, and we already know what is in Wave 7 AND 8, and the next Epic ship coming out.
Hope here is more to this first HH wave. Too bad noone has leaked the Contemptor or Cataphractii Terminators.
Which is why I'm approaching the notion of plastic Contemptors and Cataphractii (beyond the character) with caution and a shaker full of salt. I WANT those to be true, but...
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Post by: valace2
Someone was telling me that this new stuff was going to be based around Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors.
Anyone else heard about this?
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Post by: CrashGordon94
valace2 wrote:Someone was telling me that this new stuff was going to be based around Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors.
Anyone else heard about this?
Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread.
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Post by: SirDonlad
I cannot wait for these - two of these box sets takes my existing marine allies to 'full army' status!
Even if the set is £100 i think it would be totally worth it considering the minatures you're rumoured to get.
I'll be throwing away whatever rules come with it; unless it's the Legion Little Red Book in softback - then i'll have lots of GW branded humble-pie to eat.
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Post by: hanshotfirst
i cant say but my friends dad owns a game store and we saw the boxes...
We saw a contemptor on the side.
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Post by: Vain
 hanshotfirst wrote:i cant say but my friends dad owns a game store and we saw the boxes...
We saw a contemptor on the side.
So...."I can't say...but I will"?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 SirDonlad wrote:I'll be throwing away whatever rules come with it; unless it's the Legion Little Red Book in softback - then i'll have lots of GW branded humble-pie to eat.
"GW publishing FW rules in softback" ... and coming up next on 'Things that will never happen!'...
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Post by: PlaguelordHobbyServices
hanshotfirst wrote:i cant say but my friends dad owns a game store and we saw the boxes...
We saw a contemptor on the side.
So, basically, I now have to buy many boxes to replace my crappy 40K dreadnoughts with Contemptors...
Damn you GW, Damn you so much...
Wallet " No, what are you doing? Please!!! NOO!!!!!"
Me "I'm sorry, I have to do this... Please don't take this personally..."
Wallet "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
Me [pulls cash out of wallet]
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Post by: shade1313
valace2 wrote:Someone was telling me that this new stuff was going to be based around Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors.
Anyone else heard about this?
Another few reasons had occurred to me, on why those two legions.
They have a well known grudge
Both are pretty popular subsets of their particular codices for 40k
And, neither really changed their colors or heraldry from the time of the heresy, which will make them easier to relate to for those who aren't familiar with the heresy era, whereas a lot of the other legions did. Automatically Appended Next Post:  PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote: hanshotfirst wrote:i cant say but my friends dad owns a game store and we saw the boxes...
We saw a contemptor on the side.
So, basically, I now have to buy many boxes to replace my crappy 40K dreadnoughts with Contemptors...
Damn you GW, Damn you so much...
Wallet " No, what are you doing? Please!!! NOO!!!!!"
Me "I'm sorry, I have to do this... Please don't take this personally..."
Wallet "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
Me [pulls cash out of wallet]
If they really do have a Contemptor, along with all the stuff pictured...and even moreso if the rumors of a Cataphractii squad are also true, I'll be buying at least three boxes. The damage to my bank account will be at a ridiculous level.
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Post by: Spacewolfoddballz
Looking forward to this if i have funds available when it comes out
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Post by: rowboatjellyfanxiii
I asked my local blackshirt about this and he said very supiciously;
"Wait and see"
Confams y'all.
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Post by: Daston
I have just startedy space wolf legion properly now, all 40k stuff stripped out and have 30k tanks on the way from GW.
Will happily dump a load of £££ on plastic legionaries to kit bash with the SW box sets
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Post by: Commander Cain
If hanshotfirst is to be believed and the sets are in stores, where are my pretty pictures?! Surely someone must have snapped a sneaky pic by now...
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Commander Cain wrote:If hanshotfirst is to be believed and the sets are in stores, where are my pretty pictures?! Surely someone must have snapped a sneaky pic by now...
It might be less of "sets are in stores to be sold soon" and more "sets are in stores so that they can demo them" like Age of Sigmar was.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
Then where are all the shaky, out of focus, badly lit, cellphone camera pictures?
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Tannhauser42 wrote:Then where are all the shaky, out of focus, badly lit, cellphone camera pictures?
Who knows--it might be that GW only sent sets to independents they felt they could trust?
After all, the Age of Sigmar leaks came from independents.
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Post by: Azreal13
Don't be silly Kan, GW don't trust anyone.
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Post by: Cryptek of Awesome
Looking forward to these!
The world's supply of humans in power armor miniatures was starting to reach cryptically low levels.
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Post by: RedFox
Here some news from LoW gaming facebook
Lords of War Gaming Oh, you think it's going to be Battle of Phall? How cute...
Devon Martinez Well? What WILL it be then? And will it be using different rules?
Lords of War Gaming It will have it's own rules created by GW, but everyone will use for FW and they should. 30k is vastly better than 40k.
It will be two legions that hate each other. Any guesses?
Devon Martinez Word Bearers and Ultras are a classic duo.
Lords of War Gaming Looks like we have a winner!
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Post by: Daston
As long as they are pretty bland and can easily be converted I will be happy. Shame they did do Thousand Sons and Space wolves considering the hype surrounding the HH book for those two.
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Post by: Manchu
Ah yes the ancient struggle between Pepsi and Coke.
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Post by: kronk
I hope there are cultists and Gal Vorbak (sp?) and crashed space ship debris.
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Post by: BrookM
I rather hope they keep it simple and power armoured myself, without too much clutter.
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Post by: RedFox
Words bearers in "normal" mkiv armors is not too exciting for me, will have to heavily modify
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Post by: Polonius
kronk wrote:I hope there are cultists and Gal Vorbak (sp?) and crashed space ship debris.
the crashed ship is actually really nice terrain. I'm glad I kept mine!
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Post by: CrashGordon94
Including Games Workshop.
But really though, more Smurfs? 
Don't really have anything particularly against them like some do but this is really pushing it. Overexposure much?
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Post by: Nocturnus
I wonder if they will release it in September, as they tend to release the "other" games around then. I am not surprised that it will feature Ultras, the posterchild for Marines. At least they're generic enough for use as other legions. I am curious/frightened to see the price tag if it will contain all that is rumored.
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Post by: PrehistoricUFO
Looking at those sprues again - man they're packed with stuff.
Can't wait to see this starter set. So excited.
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Post by: Nvs
I just want some meaningful update already! I'm tired of checking out the AoS thread for bits that I could use for 40k!
This must be what fantasy players felt like :(
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Post by: Breotan
So, rumor mill got a release date for this?
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Post by: Manchu
October maybe? Warhammer World open house on October 18-17, with promise to unvail something: We’re happy to announce that we will be releasing +++DELETED BY THE INQUISITION+++, which is really exciting!
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/warhammer-40000-open-days/
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Post by: Accolade
One of these days they're going to have to come up with something different than +DELETED BY...+ for everything they're trying to keep secret!
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Post by: Manchu
It's sort of like mad libs:
We’re happy to announce that we will be releasing ____, which is really exciting!
- Age of Horus
- a pair of white doves
- the hostages
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Post by: TheWaspinator
It seems like they are finally taking the next logical step after making sure every starter set is at least 50% Space Marine.
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Post by: Manchu
An all- SM AoS-style game is frankly the best idea GW has ever had, just in terms of sales. Assuming that's the idea
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Post by: Thanatos73
I'm leaning towards Word Bearers for my Traitor Legion of choice so it'd be nice if they were in the starter. And if rumors of a Space Hulk boarding type game are true it could still work with WB and UM as there was plenty of void warfare when the Word Bearers invaded Ultramar.
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Post by: Olgerth Istaarn
I am a bit suspicious of this, and here's why.
The Age of Sigmar was leaked seven ways from Sunday. This is arguably a bigger deal than AoS. And all we have is a handful of sprue pictures. No WD leaks, nothing...
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Post by: Manchu
Could you gives some examples? I recall there being a rumor (as there is here) and some speculation based on round bases.
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Post by: General Hobbs
If the IF/UM?IW etc iconography on these are too pronounced for me to remove, these are useless to me.
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Post by: Zywus
General Hobbs wrote:
If the IF/UM? IW etc iconography on these are too pronounced for me to remove, these are useless to me.
It would be pretty silly to have molded iconography (or indeed anything too legion-specific) on the marines in this set. If they're plain, then they'll be bought by more or less every Heresy collector out there and since FW has loads of conversion kits it won't be any problem to make them into whatever legion.
GW has been making rather... say questionable, decisions lately but I'm tentatively hoping for plain and non-denominational legionaries 
The shoulderpads in the pictures on p1 is clearly without legion markings
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
Pretty sure we already have pictures of the basic marines in the first post. No iconography is present.
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Post by: shade1313
Huh. UM and WB are another pair that fit the bill of massive grudge and neither changed their colors after the heresy.
Plus it plays to GW's obsession with Ultramarines.
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Post by: Manchu
If it's just a big box of 30K SM without Legion-specific heraldry then the absolute best idea is to just throw a bunch of transfers in the box for various Legions and call it the Betrayal at Isstvan V set.
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Post by: Talys
 Manchu wrote:If it's just a big box of 30K SM without Legion-specific heraldry then the absolute best idea is to just throw a bunch of transfers in the box for various Legions and call it the Betrayal at Isstvan V set.
We've already seen the shoulderpads (and they are blanks), remember:
I am so in on this set. I love the mod potential of that cape.
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Post by: Manchu
I remember and I hope those are for real but it worries me that there is no Citadel tradmark or copyright info like on the AoS starter sprues.
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