Anyone have any idea where the May for HH started from? Only BoLS said May from what i remember but everyone seems to have latched onto it for some reason....
IIRC, someone mentioned here or on Warseer in another thread that a friend who managed a GW had a "red date" in May, which meant they had to staff the store that day, presumably for a big release. I think it was in a 9th edition rumor thread, but I haven't found it.
BOLS:
Plastic Heresy Standalone Kits (Age of Darkness) Details
Marine Squad Kit: 10 marines, Mk II-IV variants, bits for sergeant, communications, and banner bearer. Bolters or bolt pistol/chainsword for all. Combi weapon bits for sergeant. Pistols for sergeant include Grav, plasma, flame, and volkite. Power sword or fist for sergeant. Marine bits are compatible with current 40k bits. £35
Cataphractii Terminator Squad Kit: 5 Models. Bits for sergeant including grenade harness, power sword, combi weapon bits, volkite weapon. Marine bits include combibolters, chainfists, power fists, heavy Flamer, auto cannon, plasma blaster, lightning claws, and thunder hammer. (no storm shields) shoulders are 2 part to accept FW legion shoulders. £40
Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought Kit: Heavy heavy bolter, 2 fists with weapon variants (Bolter, plasma, flame, Melta) (no claw fingers), las cannon, and multimelta. Arms are universal, and compatible with FW upgrade bits. Includes legion decal sheet. £40
Deimos Pattern Rhino (or Predator) Kit: Includes dozer blade, Smoke launchers, HK, TL Bolter, heavy Bolter, havok launcher, flamer. Will be compatible with FW upgrade kits for predator, whirlwind, razorback. £30
Automatically Appended Next Post: As with most BOLS stuff... Flip a coin, it's more accurate.
pretre wrote: My guess based on this? DA are totally getting folded into c:sm. That's sad.
As a Dark Angels player, my only response to this is GOOD. This would be the best thing to happen to Dark Angels since getting their own releases to begin with.
pretre wrote: My guess based on this? DA are totally getting folded into c:sm. That's sad.
As a Dark Angels player, my only response to this is GOOD. This would be the best thing to happen to Dark Angels since getting their own releases to begin with.
I'll be honest, I'd be kind of okay at this point with the Marines going to a single collection (3 books maybe, 1 for rules, 1 for fluff, 1 for models/art?). Sure it'd be like $100 for a hard cover book, but that'd be cheaper than buying 5 seperate books.
pretre wrote: My guess based on this? DA are totally getting folded into c:sm. That's sad.
As a Dark Angels player, my only response to this is GOOD. This would be the best thing to happen to Dark Angels since getting their own releases to begin with.
I think that there are too many unique units and rules to fold them into the C:SM book and it would be like trying to get the BA or SW to fit into the C:SM book. It would be easier to add some stuff from the C:SM book into the DA book than the other way around.
BOLS:
Plastic Heresy Standalone Kits (Age of Darkness) Details
Marine Squad Kit: 10 marines, Mk II-IV variants, bits for sergeant, communications, and banner bearer. Bolters or bolt pistol/chainsword for all. Combi weapon bits for sergeant. Pistols for sergeant include Grav, plasma, flame, and volkite. Power sword or fist for sergeant. Marine bits are compatible with current 40k bits. £35
Fits with what I heard. The Tac box is actually a Veteran Tactical Squad rather than a normal tac squad, so will contain a fair few bits and pieces which are more ornate than usual. Lots of different pieces from different marks, mostly Mk4 bit a few other bits from other marks hrown in. There's a clampack Delagatus coming too, but I'm not sure if he's going to be exclusive to the box set. Cataphracti are defo on their way, I'm not entirely sure the FW pads are compatible though, I heard they wouldn't be hence why Forge World stop releasing new designs for different legions. I haven't heard anything about the other two lots but that doesn't mean they aren't coming, besides the Contemptor has Hasting's backing so I'd say that's a safe bet.
streetsamurai wrote:no way they put the DA with the regular SM codex. Way too many different units.
I'm pretty sure that they will relaese a tactical DA box with the next iteration of the codex.
BOLS:
Plastic Heresy Standalone Kits (Age of Darkness) Details
Marine Squad Kit: 10 marines, Mk II-IV variants, bits for sergeant, communications, and banner bearer. Bolters or bolt pistol/chainsword for all. Combi weapon bits for sergeant. Pistols for sergeant include Grav, plasma, flame, and volkite. Power sword or fist for sergeant. Marine bits are compatible with current 40k bits. £35
Cataphractii Terminator Squad Kit: 5 Models. Bits for sergeant including grenade harness, power sword, combi weapon bits, volkite weapon. Marine bits include combibolters, chainfists, power fists, heavy Flamer, auto cannon, plasma blaster, lightning claws, and thunder hammer. (no storm shields) shoulders are 2 part to accept FW legion shoulders. £40
Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought Kit: Heavy heavy bolter, 2 fists with weapon variants (Bolter, plasma, flame, Melta) (no claw fingers), las cannon, and multimelta. Arms are universal, and compatible with FW upgrade bits. Includes legion decal sheet. £40
Deimos Pattern Rhino (or Predator) Kit: Includes dozer blade, Smoke launchers, HK, TL Bolter, heavy Bolter, havok launcher, flamer. Will be compatible with FW upgrade kits for predator, whirlwind, razorback. £30
Automatically Appended Next Post: As with most BOLS stuff... Flip a coin, it's more accurate.
That's more than the base kits from FW, but less than the FW kits after you add in things like arms, so seems about right.
Cataphractii: £40- Deathwing were £35 for a set of 5, and had similar weapon setup (CC or Shooty, multiple specials), so I can see them adding a £5 'Heresy Tax' (on top of the 'Marine Tax') so it isn't too outrageous. Still cheaper than FW, and with more options, so I guess it's about in-line.
Contemptor: Last Dread was £31, this one is a fair bit bigger (call it +£4). Add HH tax (£5) and again, it's not too insane.
Tacticals: £40 "Hey, guys, lets make the HH range afforabable and open the door to new players who will then give us great margins on FW stuff!"
"Yeah, great idea. Any you know what? Let's make this 'gateway kit' the single most expensive basic infantry kit we've ever made!"
Yes, it's still half the price of the same from FW, but unless these are the most amazing kits ever released, I don't see what makes these worth almost twice as much as regular Tacticals (especially when a similarly purely-cosmetic alternative, the BATac squad, is only a pound more. I could see them at £30 with HH tax, but surely not more than that?)
I expected 5 man boxes, but I don't think £40 for 5 PA models is realistic. But then, I think 5 man is more likely than £40 a box.
15 different torsos (not compatible with 40K marines). 28 different helms. 34 unique, different bolters and enough special weapons to equip a company. Sculpted shoulder pads for all Legions, except the one you want to do. 1 pair of legs. 1 round base.
Nope, I'm sticking with a 20 man box for £40 as plausible.
This is making the assumption that the reports the HH game is intended as a gateway product at face value.
If it's simply a typically clumsy way for GW to try and gouge more cash out of customers because they see the products that are selling, but have no idea why? Then sure, 10 man box with a bunch of redundant pieces is a much higher probability.
HOWEVER this is GW we're talking about, so take the base cost of a 10-man box for anyone else (about £20), add a SM tax (£5), a HH Tax (£5) and there's no way in hell GW are doing 20 for £40, unless they are snap-fit/no options (which is what the one rumour said, I believe)
That list *really* looks like the typical "educated-guess-too-far-out-in-front-of-when-the-good-information-will-flow" rumoring from the clickbait sites.
Stuff that makes me curious is the inclusion of a Rhino. The rumormongers with good track records are pointing to the first round of stuff being in a board game. Wouldn't that suggest an infantry focus?
And even if this is something to come later, wouldn't you think the focus would be on kits with more cro$$-$elling potential...in other words, stuff you'll want to field with your 40KSM also? Contemptors fit. Stuff like Spartans and Sicarans do too. Another Rhino kit is certainly possible, but doesn't it seem to lack some juice?
HOWEVER this is GW we're talking about, so take the base cost of a 10-man box for anyone else (about £20), add a SM tax (£5), a HH Tax (£5) and there's no way in hell GW are doing 20 for £40, unless they are snap-fit/no options (which is what the one rumour said, I believe)
Again, if we take the "gateway" idea as read, then one needs to apply the Dark Vengeance type pricing philosophy to this stuff, rather than the usual "think of the most you could conceivably get away with and double it" approach.
I buy FW for the sharpness of detail, while I hope these are good I don't think I'm automatically going to buy these. You only have to look at the Mk6's shoulder pad with studs that already appears in plastic to see why plastic isn't automatically a good thing. I'm most interested in the pre-heresy rhino but that's for my chaos army.
As an aside can someone tell me where those dwarves are from? And the tank to the right? Thanks
Pacific wrote: The great thing is, we don't really need to wait for GW to release Squats any more!
Spoiler:
I think the Forge Fathers are pretty much what GW would do if they released Squats again in the modern era, minus a giant plastic kit of a tank thing with lots of guns and skulls on it that costs £90
There are a number of rule sets out there for using these in 40k, and of course Warpath is going to have a big Kickstarter at some point in the not-too-distant future.
Oooo good more sodding space marines
Although wouldn't it be good if we where all wrong and it ended up a new epic since the first epic was Horus heresy titan vs titan if memory serves me right
So does Lords of War have to be so obtuse and arrogant about their denying of rumors.
They can be right all they want but they dont have to be jerks about it, or deny a rumor without giving an answer of whats actually happen since they seem to know if they can deny it with such credence.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So does Lords of War have to be so obtuse and arrogant about their denying of rumors.
They can be right all they want but they dont have to be jerks about it, or deny a rumor without giving an answer of whats actually happen since they seem to know if they can deny it with such credence.
I don't get the mentality either. Just come out, state things clearly and then everyone can be happy.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So does Lords of War have to be so obtuse and arrogant about their denying of rumors.
They can be right all they want but they dont have to be jerks about it, or deny a rumor without giving an answer of whats actually happen since they seem to know if they can deny it with such credence.
I don't get the mentality either. Just come out, state things clearly and then everyone can be happy.
You guys new here? That's practically rumor monger 101 for some of the more legit ones.
Check out how Harry and Hastings post stuff sometimes. Heck, didn't Hastings post a whole thing comparing the future of WHFB to South Asian politics (Year Zero, etc) a couple months ago (without really saying what was going down but in retrospect clearly talking about end times)?
I'd have to go back and check but the folks who come out and say X - May, Y - June, Z - July are almost always wrong (Vela, Natfka, StWB, Stickmonkey). The folks who say things like 'In the next year, we're probably going to get SM, Eldar and Tau in that order' (Harry, Hastings) or limit their predictions to the next one or two (LoWG, 40kradio) end up being a lot more accurate. This largely has to do with release schedules not being set in stone (or so is my guess).
As to the arrogance, it probably comes from the fact that they know what's coming and don't like seeing a lot of arse-hats trying to generate clicks by making stuff up.
Lastly, a number of rumor mongers never give everything they have so as not to out themselves. It is much easier from a deniability standpoint to fact check or deny crappy rumors without exposing your source than to start putting out detailed potential release schedules. If they 'just state things clearly', that'll probably be the end of their source. We've seen that before with mongers who have a string of good predictions and then dry up (40kradio?).
TLDR: Give LoWG a break. They may be a bit more abrasive, but they aren't doing anything the other good mongers aren't doing.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So does Lords of War have to be so obtuse and arrogant about their denying of rumors.
They can be right all they want but they dont have to be jerks about it, or deny a rumor without giving an answer of whats actually happen since they seem to know if they can deny it with such credence.
I don't get the mentality either. Just come out, state things clearly and then everyone can be happy.
You guys new here? That's practically rumor monger 101 for some of the more legit ones.
Check out how Harry and Hastings post stuff sometimes. Heck, didn't Hastings post a whole thing comparing the future of WHFB to South Asian politics (Year Zero, etc) a couple months ago (without really saying what was going down but in retrospect clearly talking about end times)?
I'd have to go back and check but the folks who come out and say X - May, Y - June, Z - July are almost always wrong (Vela, Natfka, StWB, Stickmonkey). The folks who say things like 'In the next year, we're probably going to get SM, Eldar and Tau in that order' (Harry, Hastings) or limit their predictions to the next one or two (LoWG, 40kradio) end up being a lot more accurate. This largely has to do with release schedules not being set in stone (or so is my guess).
As to the arrogance, it probably comes from the fact that they know what's coming and don't like seeing a lot of arse-hats trying to generate clicks by making stuff up.
Lastly, a number of rumor mongers never give everything they have so as not to out themselves. It is much easier from a deniability standpoint to fact check or deny crappy rumors without exposing your source than to start putting out detailed potential release schedules. If they 'just state things clearly', that'll probably be the end of their source. We've seen that before with mongers who have a string of good predictions and then dry up (40kradio?).
TLDR: Give LoWG a break. They may be a bit more abrasive, but they aren't doing anything the other good mongers aren't doing.
I'm hardly new at this, but it doesn't mean I agree with it. If you have details and you're going to share them, just share what you want to share without rumor matrixes, guessing games or being a dick about it. You don't have to share everything, just don't try to channel the fething Riddler to do it.
I'm hardly new at this, but it doesn't mean I agree with it. If you have details and you're going to share them, just share what you want to share without rumor matrixes, guessing games or being a dick about it. You don't have to share everything, just don't try to channel the fething Riddler to do it.
This, if you got something to say say it, instead of being smug, denying rumors while giving nothing in return
pretre wrote: Not a good way for an actual rumor monger to keep their source.
There are ways to do it. Heck there are ways of giving details without directly quoting your source. It doesn't mean you need to pretend to be the bloody Riddler.
The saltiest part is the Deimos Pattern Rhino/Predator. It really doesn't make much sense to do that. Still, GW did put the FW Valkyrie and Drop Pods into plastic with few changes from the resin ones. Hell, with all the weird stuff that's been released surrounding Fantasy, I just don't know.
I honestly hope they don't do the Deimos in plastic. I've still got one of the old model Rhinos in bits and I'd love to be able to ride the hype if they do release 30k plastics.
So what's the current state of this rumor? How much do we know about it as of yet, and should I hold onto money or just get Dark Vengeance or bulk Space Marines instead?
Well it looks like there's a CSM supplement on the way after this End Times stuff is done with. (see AdMech Skitarii rumours) to include the new shiny shiny Bloodthirster types and a new CSM warband. No new models other than the Thirster.
Could be a good thing, think World Eaters supplement. Though I think GW will rather gnaw their own foot off than give a traitor legion decent spotlight-time. It'll probably be some new khornate warband, that again, for some reason, lost all plasma cannons and razorbacks and found a secret stash of autocannons.
Edit: Being a pessimist and being allways right sucks:
Warhams-77 wrote: The hints on the last page of the upcoming WD (March 13) teasers Khorne related 40k articles in the next issue (March 20). There were rumors from reliable sources (Darnok, Sad Panda) that there is going to be a CSM: Supplement around end of march. It will bring rules for the Bloodthirster variants to 40k and also for a mixed CSM and Daemon list focusing on Khorne units. No new models. The book is not featuring Worldeaters but a Renegade warband. AdMech is not this and not the next week. I cannot wait as well
Breotan wrote: The saltiest part is the Deimos Pattern Rhino/Predator.
That twigged with me as well. I just don't see them doing a slightly different Rhino kit.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a full new kit. If the FW Demios pattern bits are selling well enough, it would be simple enough to do an upgrade sprue that just contains the upgrade pieces so they can sell it as an online-only sprue for the normal Rhino kit.
Breotan wrote: The saltiest part is the Deimos Pattern Rhino/Predator.
That twigged with me as well. I just don't see them doing a slightly different Rhino kit.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a full new kit. If the FW Demios pattern bits are selling well enough, it would be simple enough to do an upgrade sprue that just contains the upgrade pieces so they can sell it as an online-only sprue for the normal Rhino kit.
Possible, but they've mostly moved away from upgrade sprues, and per Hastings they want to sell this stuff in their retail stores.
The FW rhino kits could definitely be selling well enough to justify another Rhino kit. They've done plastic kits for things that would seem to have far less sales potential. I'm just not sure that it makes sense in the first run of stuff from a board game. And I think this latest batch of rumors has all the signs of being a "best guess" invention.
When/if they start doing vehicles, I think they'd sell shedloads of plastic Spartans, especially if more people get into HH.
WrentheFaceless wrote:Then why be a rumor monger if you're not going to say anything of worth for fear off outing your source
ClockworkZion wrote:
pretre wrote: Not a good way for an actual rumor monger to keep their source.
There are ways to do it. Heck there are ways of giving details without directly quoting your source. It doesn't mean you need to pretend to be the bloody Riddler.
A real rumor monger with good sources is constantly treading the line between saying nothing and saying too much. Even if you don't quote somebody, the nature of the information you provide and when you provide it can as good as zero in on the source.
I get it. You guys want information to be free. Everyone should just tell everything. It doesn't work like that.
Anyways, we're OT so should probably take it to another thread. Feel free to start one or post in the Rumor Tracker thread if you want to discuss this further.
Look I could have the same success rate as LoW by saying "X isnt soon" all the time too, because its vague enough to be not only be believable, but not able to be actually confirmed.
They're saying next to nothing and being jerks about it, thats not being a rumor monger, thats being that kid on the playground going "I know a secret and i cant tell youuuuu nya nya nya"
WrentheFaceless wrote: Look I could have the same success rate as LoW by saying "X isnt soon" all the time too, because its vague enough to be not only be believable, but not able to be actually confirmed.
Their history says otherwise. They've been accurate with predicting as well as denying.
They're saying next to nothing and being jerks about it, thats not being a rumor monger, thats being that kid on the playground going "I know a secret and i cant tell youuuuu nya nya nya"
and I actually like it when they squelch rumours where they can, no point getting all excited and worked up over an upcoming new release you imagine is going to be next month when it's not going to be for ages
aka_mythos wrote: I buy FW for the sharpness of detail, while I hope these are good I don't think I'm automatically going to buy these. You only have to look at the Mk6's shoulder pad with studs that already appears in plastic to see why plastic isn't automatically a good thing. I'm most interested in the pre-heresy rhino but that's for my chaos army.
One of the newer plastic studded pads is quite good, it might be the one from the tacticals.
I don't like the plastic version of the MKIV though so I'd hope any plastic HH set didn't use that design.
aka_mythos wrote: I buy FW for the sharpness of detail, while I hope these are good I don't think I'm automatically going to buy these. You only have to look at the Mk6's shoulder pad with studs that already appears in plastic to see why plastic isn't automatically a good thing. I'm most interested in the pre-heresy rhino but that's for my chaos army.
One of the newer plastic studded pads is quite good, it might be the one from the tacticals.
I don't like the plastic version of the MKIV though so I'd hope any plastic HH set didn't use that design.
There has been some contradiction between rumor sources... Initially the plastics in the hypothetical set were going to be Mk4 with an eventual second starter with Mk5, and only more recently did this first set become rumored as a mix of the different armors that precede Mk5.
Mk4, Mk5, and Mk6 all have studs in different place which means undercuts, those are something that historically look better in resin. At this point I'm mostly interested in Mk5.
Breotan wrote: The saltiest part is the Deimos Pattern Rhino/Predator.
That twigged with me as well. I just don't see them doing a slightly different Rhino kit.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a full new kit. If the FW Demios pattern bits are selling well enough, it would be simple enough to do an upgrade sprue that just contains the upgrade pieces so they can sell it as an online-only sprue for the normal Rhino kit.
Possible, but they've mostly moved away from upgrade sprues, and per Hastings they want to sell this stuff in their retail stores.
Technically the Razorback/Predator/WW/etc kits are all "upgrade sprues". A Deimos Rhino could be packaged in a similar fashion, with the Deimos parts on their own sprue packaged in the box. Probably end up paying a premium for that over the regular kit, but it's not out of the question that they could do such a thing.
aka_mythos wrote: I buy FW for the sharpness of detail, while I hope these are good I don't think I'm automatically going to buy these. You only have to look at the Mk6's shoulder pad with studs that already appears in plastic to see why plastic isn't automatically a good thing. I'm most interested in the pre-heresy rhino but that's for my chaos army.
One of the newer plastic studded pads is quite good, it might be the one from the tacticals.
I don't like the plastic version of the MKIV though so I'd hope any plastic HH set didn't use that design.
There has been some contradiction between rumor sources... Initially the plastics in the hypothetical set were going to be Mk4 with an eventual second starter with Mk5, and only more recently did this first set become rumored as a mix of the different armors that precede Mk5.
Mk4, Mk5, and Mk6 all have studs in different place which means undercuts, those are something that historically look better in resin. At this point I'm mostly interested in Mk5.
Mk5 isn't an armor pattern tho. It's a collection of mk2-4 pieces hobbled together by the shattered legions or those without resupply of mk4 during the heresy. You can make mk5 simply by kit bashing other armor types
The equipping of the legions was only partially complete when the Horus Heresy broke out. Many of the Legions that had just been fully equipped with Mark IV armour turned against the Imperium while many of the loyal Legions had been deliberately starved of access to it and and remained operating with the older Mark II and Mark III armour. Additionally, even the Legions equipped with Mark IV suits quickly found themselves low on spare parts and unable to manufacture replacement units. With war damage and mobile operations, resupply for damaged equipment was difficult or impossible. Marine artificers and Techmarines had to use old style equipment from older models to keep the legions fighting, as well as salavage from slain enemies and unorthodox inovations of their own.[1,8]
This ad-hoc assemblage of various armour mark segments (including new or unoffical design elements) being created by a multitude of legions resulted in an entirely new mark of armour being 'accidentally' created; these previously non-standard, emergency/stopgap designs were retroactively termed as the Mark V once production of the Mark IV was halted and the design for the subsequent Corvus Armour mark (Mark VI) was finalised. Some form of standardisation across Mark V suits is is notable, despite their apparently random creation and individual varied origins, due to the dissemination of molecular bonding techniques across the legions. These techniques were developed due to battlefield experiece in fighting other Astartes; Astartes plate needed to be proof against their own penetrator weapons, and it was discovered that power armour would benefit from additional reinforcing in this regard.[6] All sorts of improvised additional armour can be seen on Mark V suits, but the most common technique was affix additional layers of armour with the aforementioned molecular bonding studs. This relatively quick and simple technique effectively added another ablative layer to marine armour suits. The extra weight this generated would prove considerable, however, which placed a strain on power supplies. As the addition of extra power generation sources and cabling would just require more armour plating, catching the design in an eternal circle, the wearers of the suit was forced to either deal with the additional weight, or turn up the power output of his backpack but suffer extreme heat output, which not only would prove uncomfortable and even compromising in certain situations,[1,8] and in many cases older, heavy power cabling was used, which created a weak point on the chest[8]
Many Mark V suits ended up featuring an unusual helmet design appropriated from supplies generated by the Tactical Dreadnought Armour program; this spin-off helmet featured similar levels of improved auto-senses as Terminator suits, but was still found to be inferior to those of Mark IV suits.[1] The respirator used for this helmet was codified as the Mantilla-pattern, and saw use as early as late M30.[10]
The Mark V would be the most common armour mark visible during the Horus Heresy, by its nature as a mark resulting directly from the concerns of that galactic civil war. As a result, the Mark V is commonly called the Heresy Suit and is distinguished by the molecular bonding studs often seem on areas such as helmet, shoulder plates and greaves. Few Imperial Space Marines are ever seen in Mark V suits today, as the loyalist Chapters either broke up these suits for spares or purposefully destroyed them after the Heresy was over. In contrast, many Chaos Space Marines still wear Mark V armour by default[1], either because they still possess their original suits or because they are forced to scavenge equipment.
This power armour carries resonances of the Imperium’s darkest hour and its greatest victory. Battle-Brothers will offer the wearer their respect. However, members of the Inquisition are instinctively suspicious of any connection to the Horus Heresy.
It all depends on how closely GW stick to their own fluff, I suppose?
Both views are correct, if you see the HH books you will find all the parts of the MK5 suits as variant patterns on other marks of the armour - eg. the Mantilla pattern helmet on Mk4s etc.
FW has just made the Mk5s with this bits so that they look different - there's nothing to stop you mixing 5 in with earlier marks to make these variant patterns.
Don't really see a whole lot of Mk. II - IV parts in there. Looks like a pretty distinct design of it's own.
Only because fw wanted to keep the number of parts to a minimum. They even recycled the plastic torso for that set.
Out of the 8 official marks only about 5 are actual marks.
mk1 - not space marine armour but use as a base for marine armour so not a mark.
mk2 - the first real space marine armour mark
mk3 - heavier specialist version of mk2 so not a mark, would better be thought of as mk2hv
mk4 - the second evolution in marine armour
mk5 - whatever was available. The cobbled together armours during the heresy took on a similar appearance after awhile hence the inclusion of the "heresy look" as a mark but not a real mark
mk6 - trialed as a possible replacement for mk4 prior to the heresy, replaced mk4 at the end of the heresy due to cost - I don't know if it's better or not.
mk7 - based on mk6, has added chest protection - again I don't know if this is better than previous mark
mk8 - upgraded mk7 so definite improvement over earlier mark
So mks 1, 3 and 5 are not actual mks.
Still a lot of holes in armour evolution.
mk2 originally had a helmet that was fixed like an astronaut. Mk4 was the first armour to have a helmet that was separate but I think that's been retconned.
Anyone know why mk7 was created?
Was it because they couldn't produce mk6 as those facilities were on Mars which had been taken by the traitors? Dunno.
If this turns out to be true it's finally a smart play by GW, though it's taken them ages. As for the Mark V armor not being an armor, if you read one of the BL Heresy books (I forget which one at the moment) but the one that has the Auretian Technocracy in it they are described as having a type of advanced power armor. After their world is conquered Horus takes the design of the new power armor and sends it back to the Mechanicum and they supply his legion with the new "Mark V" armor
Yes, gangbusters for FW is small potatoes for big daddy GW, we don't know how much cash FW generates by itself, but the website, Black Library and FW combined is about 20% of GW's total revenue.
Making plastics drops unit cost and extends product reach.
Remeber, FW is also GW's chief growth driver. They admitted as much in their 2013 financials, alongside Black Library. While GW prime sales stagnate or decrease, FW sees something like 8-13% annual growth. That doesn't amount to a huge amount of money, given their comparative small size, so GW would probably want to capitalize on that revenue more with greater availability, whatever form that may take.
Of course, GW also completely fails to understand why FW is experience growth, vis-a-vis better rules quality and a less schizophrenic, fluff-destroying theme to their model releases....
MajorStoffer wrote: Remeber, FW is also GW's chief growth driver. They admitted as much in their 2013 financials, alongside Black Library.
I don't those numbers continued linearly from there. The 2013 report saw GW as a whole bursting with their most profitable non-LoTR-year in the history of company. It predates the (in comparison) weaker subsequent years when GW (with or without FW) started to loose sales.
It was also the year Forge World basically switched from non-Heresy to doing Heresy with the release of the first book and Angron at the UK Games Day in 2012, and it generally was still a year of Games Days, etc.. It's been said a few times that Forge World took a bad hit when Games Days were dropped, as these kind of events were crucial to FW-business, despite overheads and staff costs being paid for by "GW-main". If FW has to pay their overhead for "Weekenders" now, their margins will be lower. Also, the odd Weekender in Notthingham will not be able to replace multiple Games Days the world over.
I'd further doubt that the one-time jump they experienced by going from obscure IA-books about Eldar/Necrons, etc.. to Heresy would turn into something like linear growth of the same magnitude afterwards.
MajorStoffer wrote: Remeber, FW is also GW's chief growth driver. They admitted as much in their 2013 financials, alongside Black Library.
I don't those numbers continued linearly from there. The 2013 report saw GW as a whole bursting with their most profitable non-LoTR-year in the history of company. It predates the (in comparison) weaker subsequent years when GW (with or without FW) started to loose sales.
It was also the year Forge World basically switched from non-Heresy to doing Heresy with the release of the first book and Angron at the UK Games Day in 2012, and it generally was still a year of Games Days, etc.. It's been said a few times that Forge World took a bad hit when Games Days were dropped, as these kind of events were crucial to FW-business, despite overheads and staff costs being paid for by "GW-main". If FW has to pay their overhead for "Weekenders" now, their margins will be lower. Also, the odd Weekender in Notthingham will not be able to replace multiple Games Days the world over.
I'd further doubt that the one-time jump they experienced by going from obscure IA-books about Eldar/Necrons, etc.. to Heresy would turn into something like linear growth of the same magnitude afterwards.
All valid points, as GW's silence on the matter in their latest financial would indicate there is less excitement all around. However, they can see that FW has strong appeal; the Heresy has been their golden goose at Black Library (with all the attendant drop in quality and extreme slow-down of plot speed), and it did generate massive revenue for FW; making some basic elements available for general purchase, especially in their regularly lacklustre GW "Hobby Centers" (the main loss driver in the company) makes a lot of sense, even to incompetent GW.
All valid points, as GW's silence on the matter in their latest financial would indicate there is less excitement all around. However, they can see that FW has strong appeal; the Heresy has been their golden goose at Black Library (with all the attendant drop in quality and extreme slow-down of plot speed), and it did generate massive revenue for FW; making some basic elements available for general purchase, especially in their regularly lacklustre GW "Hobby Centers" (the main loss driver in the company) makes a lot of sense, even to incompetent GW.
No doubt about that.
But there's nothing intrinsically "Forge World" or "Black Library" about the success of the Heresy. FW didn't hit the jackpot with .. dunno ... Imperial Armour: Eldar with bee-wings or whatever, no matter how much " vis-a-vis better rules quality and a less schizophrenic, fluff-destroying theme to their model releases...." they put into it. Forge World's attempt at Fantasy was quite possibly the worst GW feth-up in the plethora of GW-feth-ups of the last 5 years. BL continually fails to make non-Space Marines sell, be it more Abnett-Inquisitor stuff or Warhammer Age or Legends or whatever.
Heresy sells, because its Space Marines. For all the faults of GW-main, the one thing they still sell like hot cakes, are Space Marines. So now they sell even more variants of Space Marines.
Whatever qualities FW or BL have or do not have vis-a-vis GW-main, they are irrelevant. Their relative "success" is a result of doing more Space Marines and less not-Space Marines, a recipe GW has been following for years and is apparently now going to double-down on with a vengeance.
If Forge World/Black Library are doing slightly better than GW overall, it's only because their ratio of Space Marine-releases vs. non-Space-Marine-releases is even more skewed towards the former than that of GW-main.
Forge World/Black Library aren't the slightest bit more "competent" than GW-main. They fethed up everything non-Space Marine they ever touched even worse than GW-main and have been forced to stake their continued success on Space Marines even more thoroughly than GW-main has (thus far).
The "Space Marine" phenomena no doubt plays a big role in this, but I wouldn't discount the rules side of this particular case with FW's Horus Heresy line. FW provided a much tamer, structured ruleset than GW has produced in quite some time, with a clear link between fluff and rules (which is a big thing for Marines too, given how massively disconnected those things have been) and are customizeable without being glaringly imbalanced. Since establishing that core, they have since started to expand into non-Marines for the Heresy; Mechanicum and Auxilia which all generate a lot of buzz. No doubt, this is FW's most "mainstream" product they've ever released; what came before was always a niche within a niche and no one would argue that, but it was always very attractive to those within the targeted niche. Almost everyone I know at this point has a FW presence in their armies, the non-Marine players moreso (A case, no doubt of "oh look, someone finally gave my faction some love! certainly was my case with the Death Korps; GW doesn't seem to give a flying feth about Guard anymore rules or models wise, but FW does)
Almost everyone I know with interest in FW's HH states two things; nicer models and much better balance. Of course, that's easier with less unique factions (no secret Xenos are the big balance issues at present in 40k), but as more non-Marine options develop, and 40k prime continues to frustrated people more and more, I see more enthusiasm in the idea, which is only blocked due to price of making an army.
To GW, no doubt, the draw is "Space Marines sell, so let's see if we can give FW a boost and add more winning products to our stores," and they're not wrong; there's probably plenty of Marine fanboys with no interest in playing the HH ruleset or buying a single FW product, but will jump on new Marine products, but no small amount of such a theoretical product's success will be driven by the desire to play the ruleset and setting. Its lasting success will rest more on those people, I imagine, than "oh look, I can buy more tactical marines!"
MajorStoffer wrote: The "Space Marine" phenomena no doubt plays a big role in this, but I wouldn't discount the rules side of this particular case with FW's Horus Heresy line. FW provided a much tamer, structured ruleset than GW has produced in quite some time, with a clear link between fluff and rules (which is a big thing for Marines too, given how massively disconnected those things have been) and are customizeable without being glaringly imbalanced.
I doubt that.
If the "disconnect" is such a grave issue, why do GW Space Marines still sell?
If FW's allegedly better, tamer rules and understanding of the fluff, why have the continuously failed to make that comparative advantage work for anything that isn't selling on the "Space-Marine"-factor by itself (see above)?
It's simply mathematics. Forge World's Space Marine product-range vs. their .. say .. Dark Eldar product-range is easily 100 to 1, if not more. For GW-main, it's at best 10 to 1.
Forge Worlds 40K vs. Fantasy ratio is easily 1000 to 1. GW's is maybe 5 to 1?.
If GW would change their Marines to Dark Eldar (or other Xenos) ratio, not to mention the 40K to Fantasy ratio, to Forge World-like-dimensions, they'd relatively outgrow FW many times over, no matter how "inferior" their rules and/or understanding of the fluff may be.
Looking at both Fantasy and plastic-Heresy-rumours, that's what they apparently plan on doing.
Marines get the limelight, therefore marines sell. But marines sell, therefore they get the limelight.
Most of the books, games and so on focus on Marines, it's no surprise that when people get into the game, their first army is often marines. They've got beginner friendly rules, lower average model count, therefore cheaper, and the most diversity in terms of model range and rules options.
However, at the same time, what put FW on the radar? The Imperial Guard. The Death Korps, Elysian and Renegade lines were their first "blockbuster" product line, moving beyond their alternate tank models (again, mostly Guard) and Apocalypse stuff. They always produced marine stuff; the original drop pod, chapter/legion specific Dreadnoughts, but what really made them a big deal, what made them money was guard. It's no secret that almost every IA book was Guard vs Something Else, several lacking any Marine presence whatsoever.
The Badab War was their sole pre-HH product that was Marine focused, and was popular mostly for introducing a bunch of new Marine characters with which one could play chapters beyond the standard Codex ones, but didn't generate anywhere near the same interest as HH. To this day, how many Seige Assault Vanguard or Tyrant's Legion armies do you see? How many Badab chapters aside from the occasional Minotaur or Red Scorpion?
There's more to HH than just "it's Marines, therefore it does well," if anything, the initial response to it was ambivalent due to it being Marine on Marine, but has developed over time in response to solid rules and diversity in spite of it being Marine on Marine.
Now, it's entirely possible I'm biased from my environment; Marine armies are few and far between, of my club of about 15 regulars and another 15 irregulars, there are only 3 marine primary players (only one of the regulars, who's brand new), and total people with Marine armies is 7 (4 regulars, three irregulars). It's rare to see more than a single MEQ army out in play on an average game night, and I've never seen more than three, especially with CSM players having lost the will to keep using their codex. The local tournaments see a lot more marines (invisible cent-star being very popular, hence why I never go to tournaments), but enthusiasm for HH locally had to overcome a pretty solid anti-marine bias, only the cost has stopped it from exploding; almost everyone has lists written up, has mathhammered their favourite units against one another and so on. If the core 40k ruleset was to change and be as well designed as the HH spinoff, the enthusiasm for it would die off almost instantly locally.
Well, the somewhat smaller success of Badab vs. Heresy could also be seen as underlining the argument that FW's runaway success with Heresy is based on pre-existing name-recognition.
Badab War sold better than most non-Marine books, because it was Marines, not Xenos.
Heresy sold better than Badab, because it was the well-known founding chapters/legions, rather than the more obscure Badab-chapters.
Don't get me wrong. If GW still has rules-writers who know what they're doing, even if they sit "only" at FW, that must be a good thing. But to as long as they don't succeed somewhere, where GW-main failed to do so, it seems spurious to attribute any causal effect to them. Anecdotal evidence doesn't change that.
Riding the slipstream of immensely popular things like World Eaters, Space Wolves or Thousand Sons sells and will continue to sell, no matter how gakky the rules are... hell, people still keep asking for Legion-rules in 40K, and if they ever do new World Eaters or Thousand Sons or whatever for 40K, they'll again sell like hot cakes, whether they have rules written to "Forge World"-quality or written by a drunk monkey.
We all wish GW would strive to make good rules for the sake of making good rules. But the claim that there is a link between sales and good (or bad) rules needs a bit more meat to stand.
The argument that FW-rules-quality actually matters for sales can only be sustained, if they can make that case for something that didn't sell for GW due to poor rules but did sell for FW, conceivable thanks to the difference in quality of the rules. Warhammer Forge succeeding while GW's Fantasy seemingly failed probably would've been the best proof of that regard. Alas, it didn't happen.
FW succeeds almost exclusively with the same stuff that GW still succeeds with despite their poor rules and other problems, notably Space Marines (as well as things like Knights, etc.., which FW latched on to like a dying man), and thus cannot serve as logical foundation for any argument claiming that the differences in rules matters.
Wonderwolf wrote: Well, the somewhat smaller success of Badab vs. Heresy could also be seen as underlining the argument that FW's runaway success with Heresy is based on pre-existing name-recognition.
Badab War sold better than most non-Marine books, because it was Marines, not Xenos.
Heresy sold better than Badab, because it was the well-known founding chapters/legions, rather than the more obscure Badab-chapters.
Don't get me wrong. If GW still has rules-writers who know what they're doing, even if they sit "only" at FW, that must be a good thing. But to as long as they don't succeed somewhere, where GW-main failed to do so, it seems spurious to attribute any causal effect to them. Anecdotal evidence doesn't change that.
Riding the slipstream of immensely popular things like World Eaters, Space Wolves or Thousand Sons sells and will continue to sell, no matter how gakky the rules are... hell, people still keep asking for Legion-rules in 40K, and if they ever do new World Eaters or Thousand Sons or whatever for 40K, they'll again sell like hot cakes, whether they have rules written to "Forge World"-quality or written by a drunk monkey.
The argument that FW-rules-quality actually matters for sales can only be sustained, if they can make that case for something that didn't sell for GW due to poor rules but did sell for FW, conceivable thanks to the difference in quality of the rules. Warhammer Forge succeeding while GW's Fantasy seemingly failed probably would've been the best proof of that regard. Alas, it didn't happen.
FW succeeds almost exclusively with the same stuff that GW still succeeds with despite their poor rules and other problems, notably Space Marines (as well as things like Knights, etc.., which FW latched on to like a dying man), and thus cannot serve as logical foundation for any argument claiming that the differences in rules matters.
There are several books and products which have done well purely on the rules options they provide; IA13 being a chief example. It gave Chaos players a small glimmer of hope they could use units other than Plague Marines, Turkeys and Cultists, and brought back the Lost and the Damned which GW tried very hard to kill, particularly by removing the ability for CSM and Guard to ally. FW continuously offers products people want, which quality aside, is a key ideological difference from GW which instead tells people what to buy.
Name recognition of course matters, but what needs to be recognized is that GW doesn't build off of name recognition, on things the fans want. Legion rules? How about Crimson Slaughter instead? Regiment builder for guard? Nah, we'll cut all the characters which represented other regimental styles. Yes, the HH product's success over previous FW products has a lot to do with pre-existing demand and weight of the name and products on offer, but the fact that it was FW which picked up on that, while GW goes and releases Logan Clause and the Tonka Truck, irrespective of any difference in rules quality says a great deal.
Consider, if I may, that while the Death Korps, Elysians and Badab chapters were mostly FW inventions (aside from single drawings with a name in older codexes), they created their own fan-bases. The quality of product, in boths rules and model in spite of higher than GW prices, resulted in real, concrete armies you can and will see reasonably often.
Conversely, how many Crimson Slaughter, Clan Raukaan or Sentinels of Terra armies are out there that aren't just "counts as" to take advantage of certain rules combos? Aside from the supplements themselves, how much revenue do you suppose GW made on those things of which no one was asking for, while blatantly ignoring, or flaunting pre-existing demand?
This is one of the reasons I don't believe very strongly in this rumour; GW almost prides itself in ignoring what the customers want, and every time it seems like they're turning over a new leaf (digital editions and FW lines of communication on Facebook being superb, positive and good-will generating machines being brutally shut down without notice), it's at best a one-off. FW consistently gives fans what they want, albeit at prices which makes them cry.
Forge World/Black Library aren't the slightest bit more "competent" than GW-main. They fethed up everything non-Space Marine they ever touched even worse than GW-main and have been forced to stake their continued success on Space Marines even more thoroughly than GW-main has (thus far).
Funny, I thought their Tau, Ork, and IG lines were very we received. The tau stuff was particularly better received than the Gw offerings during 3rd/4th/5th editions. The Ig stuff is so "fethed up" that gw decided to incorporate several FW things into the last two codex books.
Forge World/Black Library aren't the slightest bit more "competent" than GW-main. They fethed up everything non-Space Marine they ever touched even worse than GW-main and have been forced to stake their continued success on Space Marines even more thoroughly than GW-main has (thus far).
Funny, I thought their Tau, Ork, and IG lines were very we received. The tau stuff was particularly better received than the Gw offerings during 3rd/4th/5th editions. The Ig stuff is so "fethed up" that gw decided to incorporate several FW things into the last two codex books.
Their Tau offerings for Battlefleet Gothic were far better than GW's. Their 30K Mechanicum army is very well done. Their Imperial Knight list in HH4: Conquest is vastly superior to the pile of gak GW called an Imperial Knight Codex.
It didn't sell apparently since they stopped but given the general reports on fantasy popularity overall I think the issue was because it was fantasy and they should likely have had lower expectations to begin with, not that they turned a golden egg into a turd.
I always found that a lot of the warhammer forge stuff was never in stock, even in WW, not sure why that was, best guess is there were limited amounts cast in the first place.
the clone wrote: i sadly do not think they will do it but I really want them to. the only mk3 armour set i can find is the honour guard standard bearer
That's mk4.
Mk3 is maybe what Chronus is wearing and definitely what the Master of the Arsenal is wearing.
If you mean mk4, then Chaplain Cassius is wearing that and one of the Tyrannic War Veterans has a nice mk4 chest plate.
I expected 5 man boxes, but I don't think £40 for 5 PA models is realistic. But then, I think 5 man is more likely than £40 a box.
15 different torsos (not compatible with 40K marines). 28 different helms. 34 unique, different bolters and enough special weapons to equip a company. Sculpted shoulder pads for all Legions, except the one you want to do. 1 pair of legs. 1 round base.
I had a look at FW t'other day and it looks (to me anyway, I could just have missed it) thats there is a lack of models wearing Heresy armour. I suppose that could be an indication of where GW might be going with this.
I'd be happy with that, it would probably be the first GW thing Ive bought in years if they did do a MkV set.
I think it was a nice distraction while there was nothing concrete to discuss beyond the space clowns. Now we have end times drama, new khorne flakes for both fantasy and 40k, and actual proof of something admech coming in just a few weeks. The Eye of Fanboy Sauron has shifted its collective focus.
warboss wrote: I think it was a nice distraction while there was nothing concrete to discuss beyond the space clowns. Now we have end times drama, new khorne flakes for both fantasy and 40k, and actual proof of something admech coming in just a few weeks. The Eye of Fanboy Sauron has shifted its collective focus.
Whoah, hold up - what did I miss? I went back and looked at the AdMech Skittari thread and didn't see anything. There's something concrete on that front?
warboss wrote: The preview pics of the new (next week's?) white dwarf has a bunch of binary text in the spot usually reserved for hinting at what is coming next.
warboss wrote: The preview pics of the new (next week's?) white dwarf has a bunch of binary text in the spot usually reserved for hinting at what is coming next.
warboss wrote: The preview pics of the new (next week's?) white dwarf has a bunch of binary text in the spot usually reserved for hinting at what is coming next.
My hobby shop propietor is under the impression, enough to tell me, that 30k is coming this summer and that GW is finishing up its contract with WB for LotR. I've read, though, that the LotR contract is in place for another two years, so I don't know how reliable the former is, either. The third piece of news he had was that WHFB is reducing the amount of minis needed per battle, which he hoped would have more people buy into the series because they won't need to buy so much to get started. Again, all three at once, not sure if all, none or some is true, ya herrd?
Istvaan wrote: My hobby shop propietor is under the impression, enough to tell me, that 30k is coming this summer and that GW is finishing up its contract with WB for LotR. I've read, though, that the LotR contract is in place for another two years, so I don't know how reliable the former is, either. The third piece of news he had was that WHFB is reducing the amount of minis needed per battle, which he hoped would have more people buy into the series because they won't need to buy so much to get started. Again, all three at once, not sure if all, none or some is true, ya herrd?
Sounds like your hobby shop proprietor is reading the internet and not any other real source.
Istvaan wrote: My hobby shop propietor is under the impression, enough to tell me, that 30k is coming this summer and that GW is finishing up its contract with WB for LotR. I've read, though, that the LotR contract is in place for another two years, so I don't know how reliable the former is, either. The third piece of news he had was that WHFB is reducing the amount of minis needed per battle, which he hoped would have more people buy into the series because they won't need to buy so much to get started. Again, all three at once, not sure if all, none or some is true, ya herrd?
Sounds like your hobby shop proprietor is reading the internet and not any other real source.
Valid enough rumours though, they are what's going around at the moment.
if games workshop make plastic 30k than what about rules? i myself will probably just use them as standard marines but will others use fw rules or will it be update with 8th edition. will they be more elite than the standard marine or will they be roughly the same. all in all i will be over the moon if gw make plastic 30k marines primarily for armour swaps and kitbashing with the occasional 5 man squad thrown in.
Istvaan wrote: My hobby shop propietor is under the impression, enough to tell me, that 30k is coming this summer and that GW is finishing up its contract with WB for LotR. I've read, though, that the LotR contract is in place for another two years, so I don't know how reliable the former is, either. The third piece of news he had was that WHFB is reducing the amount of minis needed per battle, which he hoped would have more people buy into the series because they won't need to buy so much to get started. Again, all three at once, not sure if all, none or some is true, ya herrd?
Sounds like your hobby shop proprietor is reading the internet and not any other real source.
I think that's basically it. Hobby store owners have no more information than anyone else, the only advantage they might have is they get new releases delivered to them a few days before the actual release date (which is when all the leaked pictures flood in).
Beyond that, the most they know is what they read on the exact same forums and rumour sites that the rest of us are reading (or crap they just invent themselves). My local GW store manager is at least honest in that he is upfront about saying he has no idea what's coming out more than a week in advance and any rumours he has he's just gotten from the internet like the rest of us.
the clone wrote: if games workshop make plastic 30k than what about rules? i myself will probably just use them as standard marines but will others use fw rules or will it be update with 8th edition. will they be more elite than the standard marine or will they be roughly the same. all in all i will be over the moon if gw make plastic 30k marines primarily for armour swaps and kitbashing with the occasional 5 man squad thrown in.
The rumor about 30k is its a board game with plastic marines you can use with 30k. There's no need to make 30k units for 40k. It doesn't make sense due to the time line.
Now, this is pure speculation on my part following the receipt of the little gizzit below in my most recent Mail Order
I surmise the numeral 'I' is an indicator for the Dark Angels, along with the use of the horizontal Tac arrows.
A big assumption on my part is, never having noticed the use of that numeral with the Tac arrows before is that it could be a Legion marking.
Hint of upcoming Horus Heresy??
That color is an indication of the black horus heresy symbol of the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus/Black Legion. The pin could relate to more stuff about the Unforgiven.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Will they release any primarchs? I don't think so, but will they?
No we will not see a gw primarch, several reasons.
They don't do finecast anymore
nor do they do metal
this leaves plastic and it's extremely doubtful they will release 1 or 2 primarchs in plastic
Fw does the primarchs
Formosa wrote: No we will not see a gw primarch, several reasons.
They don't do finecast anymore
nor do they do metal
this leaves plastic and it's extremely doubtful they will release 1 or 2 primarchs in plastic
Fw does the primarchs
I don't think we will see a GW primarch any time soon. But I don't think that not doing finecast or metal makes it a good reason.
Think about it -- if they wrote in a way to revive Roboute Guilliman (and made him playable as a 40kLoW), GW would sell a bazillion plastic clampacks at $50 a piece, or whatever. Or they could include him as a "bonus" in a $200 box of stuff that they want to get rid of!
The I symbol is the style GW uses for the Inquisition, so probably Deathwatch symbol after they retcon the old markings.
The Inquisition symbol is similar, but not the same. It has a skull in the middle and three lines on each side extending outwards.
The Dark Angels codex has pictures of a very similar squad marking on page 73. It has the arrow extending left and right with the numbers 1 & 2 in them. Change the number into roman numerals and it would look just like these pins.
The I symbol is the style GW uses for the Inquisition, so probably Deathwatch symbol after they retcon the old markings.
The Inquisition symbol is similar, but not the same. It has a skull in the middle and three lines on each side extending outwards.
The Dark Angels codex has pictures of a very similar squad marking on page 73. It has the arrow extending left and right with the numbers 1 & 2 in them. Change the number into roman numerals and it would look just like these pins.
Next week’s White Dwarf Teaser says:
“Can you Save the Galaxy”
“Citadel Legends
“Forge World”
So we may be looking at that Plastic Horus Heresy set coming up for pre-sale April 25, with a streetdate of May 2nd.
Note that most previous rumormongers up till last month were saying to look for plastic Horus Heresy in May with only “Lords of War” saying it was not going to happen. It looks like we will know who’s really correct next week.
Thought it maybe for the hh black libary book, but then the redirect would send you to the bl page. Guess it could be legit unless their selling the hh books through the main gw site.
Larry Vela is a coin flip, so I'd still expect LoW to be right, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I'd be really pleased if it is true, I'd essentially decided to quietly all but withdraw from playing 40K if the Eldar stuff panned out (not because I have to win, but because it would be the most obvious sign that GW does not care about making a playable game yet.)
A widely available HH game could be just the thing to allow me to keep a gaming toe in the universe I like most.
A lot of the guys that stopped 40K at my club have shown interest if plastic 30K comes out, so hope it does pan out!
Though from rumours this supposed to be a board game, with the plastics being a available seperately 6 months or so down the line if i remember the rumours correct.
Interested to see what is in the board game and how it plays....
Go to a yarn shop sometime and price out a few skeins. Figure out how many you’d need for a project. Then come back to out nice and inexpensive plastic minis.
People are talking of Plastic Heresy maybe releasing in May, but some sharp eyed readers have noticed some tantalizing clues out there form GW.
Several eagle eyed Spikey Bits’ readers messaged me yesterday to checkout the wording on past few ‘experimental’ sets of rules for Horus Heresy models over on Forge World.
Check this out;
Via Book IV Conquest
The game’s officially called ‘Battles in the Age of Darkness’ right? With Space Marines army list called the ‘Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List’
hidden
Now checkout the wording on the upcoming Xiphon fighter’s rules (via Forge World download section).
Could “the Age of Darkness EXPANSION” be what’s releasing soon? Have we been overlooking this little tidbit recently on all the latest releases’ rules?
It sure seems like it, as here’s a set of Horus Heresy Forgeworld rules from last year, (for the show only Navigator) that looks to be referencing the ‘Age of Darkness‘ we all know and love as 30k now.
pretre wrote: So Vela/Spikey Bits are just making crap up?
Yes. The Age of Darkness expansion is basically the Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Take a look at the crusade army book first few pages - it's mentioned all over the place, check the contents list at the top for example:
It's also in all other books for heavens sake. Here's book 2 (mid way down the contents):
As an aside, are the any rumours left of this at all or is just speculation now?
pretre wrote: Unfortunately, something like this is just speculation so doesn't add or subtract from their rating.
Even using the term speculation is stretching the meaning a bit. I'd personally use the term dishonest. Even the briefest of trawls or quick look into the Horus Heresy contents on the Forgeworld's website or a quick round of questions to some bod with the books would have told them what the Age of Darkness expansion is.
Thanks for adding a much-needed dose of info to this topic, Sad Panda
Also Hastings posted on Warseer last night
Originally Posted by Dryaktylus
What kind of game should that be? Something like Space Crusade/Advanced Space Crusade/Ultramarines? Doesn't sound like the rumoured replacement of the LotR line.
As I originally said.....
The box sets are stand alone games, the models will then form part of the main ranges. That's exactly what I said months ago. The replacement for lotr will be 30k not the h/h standalone game.
There were no grey areas, no hidden gems of info just the facts. its really not that difficult to understand.
Pretty clear now, there will be a HH Standalone game with miniatures available afterwards AND a 30k Tabletop/Other game replacing Lotr/Hobbit. With the info from SadPanda and Lords of War Gaming about release dates it looks like the first will be Q3 or Q4 2015 and the latter in 2016.
well a mate of mine says that they have recieved new shirts and badges for the "special" day, and has offered to let me have his when its done, so im hoping its soon, he also siad they just recieved a load of dark angels bits and bobs (badges etc.) so hopefully thats a good sign
Originally Posted by BramGaunt
All the assassins being on seperate clampack-sized sprues basically confirms them being sold seperatly. Not that I doubted Hastings.
No idea WHEN though.
Same will go for H/H game contents. I did get some more info on contents, think it was 20 MKIV marines, then the cataphracts & contemptors, and I assume 2 characters/lords
Yes, releasing the models on their own afterwards is the idea. Multipart kits they look to be (according to older posts by him and Sad Panda). Also Hastings this morning:
Hastings - Warseer
Originally Posted by Spiney Norman
Is that 20 MkIVs in total, or 20 for each side?
I'm totally saving money for this, I hope the MkIV helmets look like the forgeworld MkIVs and not the ugly pig-snouted GW version that comes in the current SM stern/Vangard veteran kits (then again they would be fairly easy to replace since FW sell Legion specific heads for the majority of the legions now)
Also any clue which Legions will be represented in the box, I'm kind of hoping the bulk of the set will be versatile enough to be used as marine for any Legion, but I'm half expecting a box with half the models covered in wolf pelts and the other half in egyptian bling...
I "think" it's 20 in total purely because 40 marines sounds too many, especially if they're going to be repackaged and released at a later date after the standalone game as part of the main 30k range. As far as I know they're generic marines, not with chapter specific sculpting on them.
Could still be 20 Marines per side. 3-4 guys with special weapons, 1-2 sergants and about 15 regular bolter-tacticals. Two larger sprues that come in duplicate in the starter and are sold later on serperately. Still sounds fine with me.
Warhams-77 wrote: No, highly unlikely. Not for the regular price of 100 EUR/125 US$
Depends on what's actually in the box. The starter kits usually offer quite decent value for the price (compared to gee-dubs usual pricing, at least) and somehow I have the impression that there's a tendency for rumors to blow up the ammount of non-infantry components of the starters. Let's do a quick & dirty calculation:
40 regular marines = 80 bucks. 2 Dreads = 60. That would would make 140€, with the starter pack discount --> 100. Doesn't look that far off the charts and become outright reasonable if you reduce it to 15 marines per side - 3x 5-guy-squads + dread or something = nice, interesting starter box.
ultimentra wrote: I don't know what I am looking at haha. I'm not a Marine person but I saw the pics on FB too, I can't really tell what this is supposed to be.
It's Mk IV Heresy Armor. and there's a Praetor SC and a SC in Cataphracii Terminator Armor.
Rihgu wrote: I thought that Legion Tactical Squads couldn't take special or heavy weapons? Why would this kit come with them?
You sir are correct. As for the why, well, I have two theories.
1. These aren't actually HH era marines. They are a new chaos kit, old armor loyalist tactical marines or some kind of "Lost Legion #2 come back from heresy era loyalist....thingy".
or
2. GW is ignoring all of Forgeworld's work and doing whatever they hell they want.....which seems likely.
Rihgu wrote: I thought that Legion Tactical Squads couldn't take special or heavy weapons? Why would this kit come with them?
You sir are correct. As for the why, well, I have two theories.
1. These aren't actually HH era marines. They are a new chaos kit, old armor loyalist tactical marines or some kind of "Lost Legion #2 come back from heresy era loyalist....thingy".
or
2. GW is ignoring all of Forgeworld's work and doing whatever they hell they want.....which seems likely.
1. are you serious ?
2. Or maybe GW just want people to be able to use these kits for 40k marines, and will also sell special weapon upgrade kits...
SocksOfDeath wrote: Im questioning why the pictures are such poor quality, but hopeful that they are real and not photoshops.
Poor quality? They're better than most of the cellphone camera chaff we get in the rumor mill these days, at least I can clearly tell what each piece looks like in these photos.
But the kits are useless for that, since special weapons squads all have to take the same special weapon. The kit comes with too few of too much variety for that.
The "keep it compatible with 40k" idea seems most likely. Maybe we'll still have to buy from FW to get heresy era special/heavy weapons en masse
Rihgu wrote: I thought that Legion Tactical Squads couldn't take special or heavy weapons? Why would this kit come with them?
Getting people to buy them to make a 30K army or to buy for use as a normal 40Ktac squad is my guess. GW can try to get money from both sets of players. Some 30k players use the the Space Marine Codex to represent their army too. So lots of uses.
Or GW just doesn't know or care about FW's rule set.
Finally, we can do away with all those stupid xenos kits and have pure, hot Space Marine on Space Marine action, just like GW and 95% of the playerbase always wanted.
Is it time for everyone to pull out their Ron Paul pictures? This is exciting, especially for kitbash and bits possibilities. I really hope they do boxes for all of the legions and not just Ultrasmurfs, I really want some official stuff for my Iron Hands successor chapter.
Hah. Assuming they're real, someone at GWHQ has evidently decided we need to be distracted from the AoS trainwreck.
Underling: "Milord, Milord, the nerds are revolting!"
GW Exec: "Hahah, yes, very good underling, they are indeed revolting, supine creatures, worthy only of derision and scor..
U: "No Milord, I mean they are in revolt! It appears that many are not quite as eager to indulge their hobby of buying our products when the product in question is Age of Sigmar."
GW: "CURSES! Will these beasts never be satisfied?! Over and over we give them new things to buy, at ever increasing prices so they can prove to lesser nerds that they are better as they can afford to own the Porche of miniatures, and this is the thanks they give us?! Fine, fine, leak a few pics of the Heresy plastic sprues, that should pop them back into their normal comatose compliance!"
U: "A cunning and masterful plan Milord, I shall attend to it at once!"
I'll wait for better pics, and for the sprues of the rumoured Cataphractii Terminators(assuming they exist and that rumour wasn't spawned by the character already shown).
Yodhrin wrote: Hah. Assuming they're real, someone at GWHQ has evidently decided we need to be distracted from the AoS trainwreck.
Underling: "Milord, Milord, the nerds are revolting!"
GW Exec: "Hahah, yes, very good underling, they are indeed revolting, supine creatures, worthy only of derision and scor..
U: "No Milord, I mean they are in revolt! It appears that many are not quite as eager to indulge their hobby of buying our products when the product in question is Age of Sigmar."
GW: "CURSES! Will these beasts never be satisfied?! Over and over we give them new things to buy, at ever increasing prices so they can prove to lesser nerds that they are better as they can afford to own the Porche of miniatures, and this is the thanks they give us?! Fine, fine, leak a few pics of the Heresy plastic sprues, that should pop them back into their normal comatose compliance!"
U: "A cunning and masterful plan Milord, I shall attend to it at once!"
I'll wait for better pics, and for the sprues of the rumoured Cataphractii Terminators(assuming they exist and that rumour wasn't spawned by the character already shown).
Yup, exalted. I read Underling in Gollum's voice. Well done.
IT's far more likely GW wants to increase their profits and the easiest way to do that is for them to make their customers buy plastic HH minis and then pay a forgeworld upgrade tax on top of it.
I just hope HH has fun rules that are tournament friendly and this doesn't detract from the other non-HH armies like FW has been doing.
Not to be the one that pisses all over everyone's plastic HH bonfire o' love, but the last thing this company needed was more Space Marines. Now we have Fantasy Space Marines (Sigmarines), resin Old Timey Space Marines, plastic Old Timey Space Marines, not to mention the now apparently pedestrian cornucopia of Space Marines that we were already choking on in 40K.
The corpse is starting to smell, spray some Space Marine cologne on it, quick! Just be done with it and rename the company and stores Space Marine, Inc.
Rihgu wrote: But the kits are useless for that, since special weapons squads all have to take the same special weapon. The kit comes with too few of too much variety for that.
The "keep it compatible with 40k" idea seems most likely. Maybe we'll still have to buy from FW to get heresy era special/heavy weapons en masse
30k is all about quantity. The main attraction of plastic sets for 30k is going to be to fill out those cheap 20-man Tactical squads. 5 boxes of 10 will give you two 20-man Tactical squads and two 5-men support squads with different weapons, each box after that adds another guy to each existing support squad AND adds another support squad with different weapons.
Legion Veteran Tactical Squads *can* take special weapons. That said, if we're seeing plastic HH, it's unthinkable that we won't also see some kind of mainstream GW book - which will probably do away with the bolter-only tactical squads of the FW series.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yodhrin wrote: Hah. Assuming they're real, someone at GWHQ has evidently decided we need to be distracted from the AoS trainwreck.
Underling: "Milord, Milord, the nerds are revolting!"
GW Exec: "Hahah, yes, very good underling, they are indeed revolting, supine creatures, worthy only of derision and scor..
U: "No Milord, I mean they are in revolt! It appears that many are not quite as eager to indulge their hobby of buying our products when the product in question is Age of Sigmar."
GW: "CURSES! Will these beasts never be satisfied?! Over and over we give them new things to buy, at ever increasing prices so they can prove to lesser nerds that they are better as they can afford to own the Porche of miniatures, and this is the thanks they give us?! Fine, fine, leak a few pics of the Heresy plastic sprues, that should pop them back into their normal comatose compliance!"
U: "A cunning and masterful plan Milord, I shall attend to it at once!"
I'll wait for better pics, and for the sprues of the rumoured Cataphractii Terminators(assuming they exist and that rumour wasn't spawned by the character already shown).
You say "evidently" but there's actually no evidence of that. But you know, let's all whine about Age of Sigmar some more, har de har har!
Making one and only one Heresy Space Marine kit is something I would be behind. With one kit you'd let people bulk out their Heresy armies, add some variety to their 40k Space Marine armies and add some variety to their Chaos Space Marine armies.
But if they're making an entirely new line of old Space Marine armour, it will be absolute gak. Space Marines already get way more support than most armies, so adding a fourth line of Space Marine plastic kits when the bastards still haven't given my army a single solitary infantry kit is just rubbing salt in the wound.
And I'll give you three guesses as to which path GW is going down.
People are going to whine if they don't release a kit for every Legion. Then people are going to whine if they don't get a kit for every single armor mark, so everyone can build squads out of their favorite/appropriate mark and not have to worry about getting ugly or inaccurate bits. We may not literally end up with 80 different tactical squad kits but GW's sure as hell going to try.
Rayvon wrote: It makes sense, they would sell like hot cakes.
Then I hope GW can keep itself going on the sales of Space Marines alone, because there's little reason for anyone else to play their games as it is.
Rayvon wrote: It makes sense, they would sell like hot cakes.
Yep. And allow more people to get into 30K, which is one of the very best things GW has done in a long time.
My only concern is the scale. These will probably be compatible with 40K marines, which are scaled differently than FW 30K marks. And I'm a little more than halfway toward getting the infantry I'll need. BUT...if it gets more people playing the awesomeness that's 30K...it's all good.
Rihgu wrote: But the kits are useless for that, since special weapons squads all have to take the same special weapon. The kit comes with too few of too much variety for that.
The "keep it compatible with 40k" idea seems most likely. Maybe we'll still have to buy from FW to get heresy era special/heavy weapons en masse
Veteran Tactical Squads can take both heavy and special weapons. Give your Praetor the Rites Of War: Pride Of The Legion and they become troops (along with Terminators). I am sure that is partly why they included the special/heavy weapons. Also to allow for 40k crossover, I am sure.
Wow, it's actually going to happen. As far as why include special and heavy weapons, veteran tactical squads can be equipped with a special and a heavy. Plus, there's the whole "buy 5+ of these kits and you'll have all you need to make two full tactical squads, and one support and one heavy squad"
I suppose it really depends on how much plastic GW will do for 30K. As a one and done kit, it works. As a crossover 30K/40K kit, it works.
Bull0 wrote: Legion Veteran Tactical Squads *can* take special weapons. That said, if we're seeing plastic HH, it's unthinkable that we won't also see some kind of mainstream GW book - which will probably do away with the bolter-only tactical squads of the FW series.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yodhrin wrote: Hah. Assuming they're real, someone at GWHQ has evidently decided we need to be distracted from the AoS trainwreck.
Underling: "Milord, Milord, the nerds are revolting!"
GW Exec: "Hahah, yes, very good underling, they are indeed revolting, supine creatures, worthy only of derision and scor..
U: "No Milord, I mean they are in revolt! It appears that many are not quite as eager to indulge their hobby of buying our products when the product in question is Age of Sigmar."
GW: "CURSES! Will these beasts never be satisfied?! Over and over we give them new things to buy, at ever increasing prices so they can prove to lesser nerds that they are better as they can afford to own the Porche of miniatures, and this is the thanks they give us?! Fine, fine, leak a few pics of the Heresy plastic sprues, that should pop them back into their normal comatose compliance!"
U: "A cunning and masterful plan Milord, I shall attend to it at once!"
I'll wait for better pics, and for the sprues of the rumoured Cataphractii Terminators(assuming they exist and that rumour wasn't spawned by the character already shown).
You say "evidently" but there's actually no evidence of that. But you know, let's all whine about Age of Sigmar some more, har de har har!
If you think that mild pisstake is "whining" I'd advise you put yourself on the transplant list as soon as you can, you're evidently in dire need of a new sense of humour.
Honestly I never even CONSIDERED trying 30k/Horace Hershey's Horus Heresy before for all the typical Forge World-related reasons in addition to a chronic fear of dealing with resin minis (I've heard the horror stories and I'm not sure any amount of "It's not that bad!" will ever completely purge them from my mind) as well as seeming to be a barely-existing side thingy.
BUT plastic minis and stuff from GW rather than Forgery World puts that at least into the realm of possibility.
Then again, still not sure I'd do it, considering 40k's already pretty pricey for me...
Eh, a few years too late and one edition after I stopped caring for the most part. I can't see myself buying normal sized marines ever again in bulk and definitely not a whole boxed set. In any case, I'm glad for the folks that aren't as jaded that want the sets of older armor along with HH rules in all likelihood.
So, all Mk IV, which isn't really what I'm looking for to add on to the 30k Salamanders I'm working on. BUT, this could nicely fit into the urge I've been having to do some side work on Alpha Legion.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moopy wrote: Outside of the terminator, it almost looks like a souped up "anniversary" version of the original boxed set.
Not sure about all the HH elements- these are at least MK 5 on. At least the backpacks do. Don't see much of MK3 which is what I love.
Nope, those breastplates are pure Mk IV. Mk IV has a very distinctive shape to the chest, the lower portion in particular.
Dentry wrote: Lord only knows how many Bothans these pictures cost.
All the Bothans.
And Manny Both-Hanz.
As amazing as it is to see Heresy plastics, it really does feel like GW has nowhere left to go but the grave. Also, how many people besides me had a long term, somewhat expensive, sort-of half-completed Heresy Era conversion project in a box in the closet on the table? Probably tens of thousands, right? That's going to generate some rage quit somewhere.
Bull0 wrote: Legion Veteran Tactical Squads *can* take special weapons. That said, if we're seeing plastic HH, it's unthinkable that we won't also see some kind of mainstream GW book - which will probably do away with the bolter-only tactical squads of the FW series.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yodhrin wrote: Hah. Assuming they're real, someone at GWHQ has evidently decided we need to be distracted from the AoS trainwreck.
Underling: "Milord, Milord, the nerds are revolting!"
GW Exec: "Hahah, yes, very good underling, they are indeed revolting, supine creatures, worthy only of derision and scor..
U: "No Milord, I mean they are in revolt! It appears that many are not quite as eager to indulge their hobby of buying our products when the product in question is Age of Sigmar."
GW: "CURSES! Will these beasts never be satisfied?! Over and over we give them new things to buy, at ever increasing prices so they can prove to lesser nerds that they are better as they can afford to own the Porche of miniatures, and this is the thanks they give us?! Fine, fine, leak a few pics of the Heresy plastic sprues, that should pop them back into their normal comatose compliance!"
U: "A cunning and masterful plan Milord, I shall attend to it at once!"
I'll wait for better pics, and for the sprues of the rumoured Cataphractii Terminators(assuming they exist and that rumour wasn't spawned by the character already shown).
You say "evidently" but there's actually no evidence of that. But you know, let's all whine about Age of Sigmar some more, har de har har!
If you think that mild pisstake is "whining" I'd advise you put yourself on the transplant list as soon as you can, you're evidently in dire need of a new sense of humour.
If you thought that was funny...the dire need may be yours.
Time to let go of the Age of Sigmar stuff, methinks. The circle jerk you're looking for can be found in other threads. Not this one.
This is quite possibly the smartest decision Games Workshop has ever made.
Honestly it is.
What from I am seeing this is most certainly mk IV. At closer look there is a plasma gun, melta gun, flamer, heavy bolter, and missile launcher in there, as well as several bits for combi weapons.
That is good for kitting out Veteran Tacticals and well as standard tacticals., there is so much potential here for crossover usage. Good for 40k and 30k.
The main thing prohibiting people from starting a 30k army was the cost of the basic troop, over a 100 US for 10 marines when you need to field at least 30-40 marines, thats just to damn much for most people to pay for your basic troops. If this is priced well you can get HQ, Elite, and Troop choices out of this box. It can't be anywhere near a hundred for this set. Getting close to that price would be a huge mistake, because the resin models are just better.
The heresy snobs won't like this. GW hogging into their precious Forgeworld. I love Forge World don't get me wrong, but some of the costs associated with a Heresy army are just ridiculous. The quality is there, but the cost is just to much.
This allows people to get the troops they need, and the augment their legion with the resin crack, most of us 30k players love.
I have close to 9000 points of prehersy Imperial Fists and this will help me start either a Word Bearers or Space Wolf legion army.
30k is amazing people, it honestly is. I am not blowing smoke it just is.
As for those of you Xenos players I will address that next.
Relapse wrote: Agreed. It is Mark VI armor. Looks like I'll be having a full company soon.
They're going to bug me if I can't mix and match. But if I ever get around to building that adversary force of UMs...this might be a great way to build the core at a more reasonable price.
Nice! I hope these end up reasonably more affordable than their FW counter parts. I have a small collection of HH models from FW that I've only bought via rule of cool, so not for creating a viable army list. I hope these plastics can help change that!
There are 8 Xenos races, Tau, Eldar, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Nids, and Daemons..
There are a grand total of 5 marine factions, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Vanilla marines.
For the most part the Marine factions, play quite differently from one another. While marines get to tool around in rhino's with Land Raiders, and predators (which they have been doing for decades) Tau have been getting Riptides and new flyers, Necrons have been given 2 new flyers and a bunch of other new kits. Eldar have been given Wraithknights, and Nids have been given cool new flyers among other things, Orks and Dark Eldar haven't been left out and Daemons have a new D Weapon toting bloodthirster.
Space Marines have been given a 5 different new flyers, centurions, and a couple new razorback options over 5 different armies.
Space Marines sell, the Horus Heresy is popular. If you think GW would be better off making a few new units for the Xenos races and scrapping the Horus Heresy you really don't understand how it works.
Heliodore wrote: Nice! I hope these end up reasonably more affordable than their FW counter parts. I have a small collection of HH models from FW that I've only bought via rule of cool, so not for creating a viable army list. I hope these plastics can help change that!
You, me and everyone else! I think the price will be the make or break point. If GW tries to get FW prices for their stuff, they'll shoot themselves in the foot. If the prices are in line with the other starters, I will probably buy 2, though I already have 50 MK IVs and 20 Mk IIIs. It's not like you can ever have enough marines, right? :O
BobtheInquisitor wrote: As amazing as it is to see Heresy plastics, it really does feel like GW has nowhere left to go but the grave. Also, how many people besides me had a long term, somewhat expensive, sort-of half-completed Heresy Era conversion project in a box in the closet on the table? Probably tens of thousands, right? That's going to generate some rage quit somewhere.
I dunno how many would rage quit versus shrugging their shoulders and buying the new stuff, but I think more would just shrug and buy.
For example, I have a 40k-scale Leviathan super-heavy tank I have been working on for two years, and if GW up and released a plastic Leviathan kit tomorrow I'd buy it in an instant. I don't think I am alone in that mindset, either, because at the end of the day convenience and impatience are extremely strong motivators.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: As amazing as it is to see Heresy plastics, it really does feel like GW has nowhere left to go but the grave. Also, how many people besides me had a long term, somewhat expensive, sort-of half-completed Heresy Era conversion project in a box in the closet on the table? Probably tens of thousands, right? That's going to generate some rage quit somewhere.
I dunno how many would rage quit versus shrugging their shoulders and buying the new stuff, but I think more would just shrug and buy.
For example, I have a 40k-scale Leviathan super-heavy tank I have been working on for two years, and if GW up and released a plastic Leviathan kit tomorrow I'd buy it in an instant. I don't think I am alone in that mindset, either, because at the end of the day convenience and impatience are extremely strong motivators.
Yeah, I don't see that happening. I've had a truescale project that I've been taking off and putting on the burner for years but I'm not going to cry if GW decided to finally make actual 8ft tall marines for 40k (instead of AOS of course). Will there be someone out there who rage quits because they just spent way more than they should in time and money to get the exact bits they wanted when now they could have just bought them in one order? Sure... just like there were some folks pissed that they did just that with plastic bits from all the various marine flavors to get HH squads and then FW just came out with them... but that was a quick flash in the pan and it's been raking in money ever since.
Not sure about all the HH elements- these are at least MK 5 on. At least the backpacks do.
Mk4 never had its own backpack, the original sculpt came with the plastic Mk5/6 backpack whilst the second variant came with the old* plastic Mk7 backpack. Forge World copied this with the initial sculpt having a straight up copy of the Mk5/6, then switching to a straight up copy of the old Mk7 backpack. This pack appears to be a cross between the old and new Mk7.
* usually just referred to as the 'second edition' backpack, though in truth it was made for the Space Marine Strike Force box several years before 2nd edition came out.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: As amazing as it is to see Heresy plastics, it really does feel like GW has nowhere left to go but the grave. Also, how many people besides me had a long term, somewhat expensive, sort-of half-completed Heresy Era conversion project in a box in the closet on the table? Probably tens of thousands, right? That's going to generate some rage quit somewhere.
I dunno how many would rage quit versus shrugging their shoulders and buying the new stuff, but I think more would just shrug and buy.
For example, I have a 40k-scale Leviathan super-heavy tank I have been working on for two years, and if GW up and released a plastic Leviathan kit tomorrow I'd buy it in an instant. I don't think I am alone in that mindset, either, because at the end of the day convenience and impatience are extremely strong motivators.
Yeah, I don't see that happening. I've had a truescale project that I've been taking off and putting on the burner for years but I'm not going to cry if GW decided to finally make actual 8ft tall marines for 40k (instead of AOS of course). Will there be someone out there who rage quits because they just spent way more than they should in time and money to get the exact bits they wanted when now they could have just bought them in one order? Sure... just like there were some folks pissed that they did just that with plastic bits from all the various marine flavors to get HH squads and then FW just came out with them... but that was a quick flash in the pan and it's been raking in money ever since.
I don't mean ten thousand rage quits, but even a small percentage looks bigger when taken from a pool so large.
Hopefully there will be the plastic Contemptor that was said to be coming. I would make a new Mortis so fast heads would spin. Toss a Terminator Cyclone Missile Launcher on for good measure.
Now, the real question is if I want to make these into Crimson Fists or make a 30K Legion. And then which Legion? Do I stick with the Fists and make Imperial Fists or do I make a different Legion?
I might get them and paint them as Crimson Fists, but say this is a Post-HH Second Founding company. Then get Alexis Polux and paint him in Blue and Red.
Weapon options are missile launcher, heavy bolter, graviton gun, flamer and plasma gun, with quite a few options for the sergeant and even a Vexilla to boot.
There are 8 Xenos races, Tau, Eldar, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Nids, and Daemons..
There are a grand total of 5 marine factions, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Vanilla marines.
For the most part the Marine factions, play quite differently from one another. While marines get to tool around in rhino's with Land Raiders, and predators (which they have been doing for decades) Tau have been getting Riptides and new flyers, Necrons have been given 2 new flyers and a bunch of other new kits. Eldar have been given Wraithknights, and Nids have been given cool new flyers among other things, Orks and Dark Eldar haven't been left out and Daemons have a new D Weapon toting bloodthirster.
Space Marines have been given a 5 different new flyers, centurions, and a couple new razorback options over 5 different armies.
Space Marines sell, the Horus Heresy is popular. If you think GW would be better off making a few new units for the Xenos races and scrapping the Horus Heresy you really don't understand how it works.
Lalala cannot hear you, In 30K there were only marines! and sometimes imperial guard were allowed to do something! Titans and spaceships were attached to legions, so unbound is OK! There where some alien races at the beginning of the HH but they where of no impact, Tau didn't exist, Squat? There Are no Squats! Eldar were still reeling from the impact of slaneesh's birth. Necron's were still dormant, tyranid have not arrived yet.
Lalala cannot hear you, In 30K there were only marines! and sometimes imperial guard were allowed to do something! Titans and spaceships were attached to legions, so unbound is OK! There where some alien races at the beginning of the HH but they where of no impact, Tau didn't exist, Squat? There Are no Squats! Eldar were still reeling from the impact of slaneesh's birth. Necron's were still dormant, tyranid have not arrived yet.
...aren't you agreeing with him? Or are you making fun of people who who don't agree?
And despite this are run differently, release better products, act like adults when it comes to previews and advertising, produce higher quality books (miles better quality) and seem to have their collective heads on straight when it comes to basically everything they do. So yeah, FW is part of GW in the same way the heart and the appendix are part of your body, but one is infinitely more useful than the other.
Heliodore wrote: Nice! I hope these end up reasonably more affordable than their FW counter parts. I have a small collection of HH models from FW that I've only bought via rule of cool, so not for creating a viable army list. I hope these plastics can help change that!
You, me and everyone else! I think the price will be the make or break point. If GW tries to get FW prices for their stuff, they'll shoot themselves in the foot. If the prices are in line with the other starters, I will probably buy 2, though I already have 50 MK IVs and 20 Mk IIIs. It's not like you can ever have enough marines, right? :O
Hehe, as they say, a man can dream! Dream hard! Yeah, I would hope, at the least, that if there is indeed a starter box, it will be in line with past boxes, but I won't hold my breath and probably just save up for that Mastodon!
I'd be happy to have a plastic Contemptor. Even if it's just monopose. The resin one is a massive pain in the arse to assemble (legs wise anyway). Took me a good while to pose it without it looking like an idiot.
angelofvengeance wrote: I'd be happy to have a plastic Contemptor. Even if it's just monopose. The resin one is a massive pain in the arse to assemble (legs wise anyway). Took me a good while to pose it without it looking like an idiot.
Indeed. I would take monopose as long as I can customize it into a C-Mortis. I ended up having to pin the legs on my contemptor in place, I could not get the damn thing to stay glued together.
Hopefully the Contemptor will be more like the tactical squad and not be monopose.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrookM wrote: Resin Contemptor legs are bad, but the assault cannon is an outright hate-crime to assemble.
This. Basically as long as the plastic contemptor resembles the resin one, it is automatically an improvement.
And despite this are run differently, release better products, act like adults when it comes to previews and advertising, produce higher quality books (miles better quality) and seem to have their collective heads on straight when it comes to basically everything they do. So yeah, FW is part of GW in the same way the heart and the appendix are part of your body, but one is infinitely more useful than the other.
Money still goes to the same place, Games Workshop Ltd. If someone boycotts GW and then buys FW they are deluding themselves. I personally believe that GW deliberately keep the Forge World website separate to maintain the illusion that they are different companies, very strange that so many people buy into the illusion.
BrookM wrote: Weapon options are missile launcher, heavy bolter, graviton gun, flamer and plasma gun, with quite a few options for the sergeant and even a Vexilla to boot.
Brook I think you will find that there is no Grav gun it s actually a 30k version of the melta gun.
I wish they had put in a right and left hand powerfists. and a second lighting claw attachment.
And despite this are run differently, release better products, act like adults when it comes to previews and advertising, produce higher quality books (miles better quality) and seem to have their collective heads on straight when it comes to basically everything they do. So yeah, FW is part of GW in the same way the heart and the appendix are part of your body, but one is infinitely more useful than the other.
Money still goes to the same place, Games Workshop Ltd. If someone boycotts GW and then buys FW they are deluding themselves. I personally believe that GW deliberately keep the Forge World website separate to maintain the illusion that they are different companies, very strange that so many people buy into the illusion.
I think in the haste to repeat an argument, you overlooked that a) he already gave you ample examples of why it was more than an illusion, and b) not everyone had your agenda.
Yes, the money goes to the same but the rules are totally different. As long as GW keeps those different rules, and you are giving money to one regime but not the other, you are a) getting what you want and b) you are communicating. You might think that your communication goes unheard but again, as long as one gives you what you want and one does not, I see no reason to shy away from both.
Unless your aim was total boycot of the Gdub business. But not everyone is on that end point of a continuum of opinions about how to deal with GW.
Originally Posted by Scribe of Khorne
So tell me hastings, are we looking at an AoS type moment here, or is GW going to let FW keep steering the HH ship?
If AoS style rules reboots are incoming...in a few months? I'll likely lose my ****.
I don't know TBH, I'll share what I have heard, but this dates back a while as I pay very little interest to GW now.
I heard that 30k HH would be a boxed standalone game (like execution force was) and that the plastics contained within it would go on to form part of a larger 30k range and would be released some time later as individual box sets/clampacks, I was told that rules would be in those boxes, but that some boxes would contain rules for 30k AND 40k (and these boxes have BOTH logos on - yes there is a new 30k logo) so I assume it will be using a different ruleset to 40k (as there would be no point having rules for both systems in boxes if they were both the same). I was also told the plastic assassins would get clampack releases later and be released as part of the main 40k range..... as the box set is pretty much still quite widely available I don't expect this to be soon, although I never had a timeframe in the first case.
As for your AoS style rule reboot question - I remember being told to expect 40k codexes (codices?) to be a thing of the past within 2 years, and that the rules would be in the box for each model/unit, but there would still be a core ruleset which the in box rules would obviously add to. I've not bought any AoS releases (nor do I intend to) so I don't know if they have rules in the boxes (seems daft as when rules got FAQ'd (lol) or changed they'd need to repack ALL the boxes - seems even dafter that anything would actually bother with rules for AoS!!) or just online? I am going to leap to the conclusion that 40k probably WILL become more simplified like AoS, mainly because GW no longer see themselves as rules/games writers but just model sellers. How much more simplified I wouldn't hazard a guess at. Whatever they decide to do you can bet it's in the pipeline already, because myself and Harry were privately discussing the changes to WFB almost 3 years ago - I was told it was being canned and whilst we thought that was not the case and that AoS would be a continuation or refresh of it WFB HAS actually been canned and REPLACED by AoS, so these things are planned well ahead.
FW make huge sales from HH, there was no way that GW weren't going to want in on the action! I expect FW to still produce the big kits/characters/customising kits but GW will provide the bulk of the models needed to play 30k. We can only hope that GW let FW handle the 30k rules/books and they just make the models for it. But keep in mind I was told that when the 30k RANGE hits the stores (not the standalone box game but the actual range) it will take over the store space that used to be taken up by LotR/Hobbit, so GW may want to keep tight hold of the reigns even though they are no longer committed to producing games?
That's probably done very little to answer you, but it's the best I can manage and hopefully slightly informative if only a repost of what I wrote in January.
Originally Posted by lbecks
The character kit has two guys in it. ......
Indeed. Maybe those are the 2 characters from the starter/standalone box that might only be available in that box...... or something
*EDIT.
Having thought about this I think the unit/model rules for 30k & 40k will be online/WD rather than actually inside the box kits (I may have misinterpreted what my source said).
Also I should point out that as I understand it 40k and 30k will be very different games/rulesets, so it may be that 40k becomes like AoS and 30k is handled by FW (although this is just wishful thinking on the behalf of hobbyists the world over!).
Of course I may be completely wrong...... because that happens a lot
BrookM wrote: Weapon options are missile launcher, heavy bolter, graviton gun, flamer and plasma gun, with quite a few options for the sergeant and even a Vexilla to boot.
Specials are Plasma, Flamer and Melta. No graviton, sadly.
Also, the rumoured starter set was two praetors, 40 marines, 10 terminators and 2 contemptors. It looks like the two praetors have been spotted. Still struggle to believe they would include all that in one starter, at least not at the £75 range.
I don't think it was 40 marines, for some reason I thought it was 30. But the other figures look right.
Slightly dissapointing to see that the plastics keep doing all legs in that classic semi-squatting pose. (I suppose it might be a necessity for plastic molding and not an artistic choice).
Still it'll be a good product for bulking out Mk IV squads "cheaply"
Slinky wrote: I can't tell from the pics - I hope they have FW-style Mk IV helmets rather than the (IMHO) silly-looking GW-style...
I think they're the FW ones, which I agree are vastly superior. I'm also not overly happy with the legs, the FW poses are a lot better, but I'm hoping these will be a more reasonably priced way to bulk out a force. And I really hope GW are sensible enough to leave the books and rules to FW.
Slinky wrote: I can't tell from the pics - I hope they have FW-style Mk IV helmets rather than the (IMHO) silly-looking GW-style...
Agreed. I love the FW pseudo-Stormtrooper mask rather than the GW elephant trunk mask. Even if they are the elephant trunks, I will probably order a bunch of the FW helmets to replace them. Man, now I REALLY want to get these to make my Crimson Fists Honour Guard, the Maximus Pattern is my favorite armor mark (tied with Mk. VII/VIII).
