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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
from facebook
We have something very exciting on the way tomorrow folks.
We'll be bringing you a live question and answer session on the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. We'll have Pete Foley - head of the teams behind the new edition's rules and setting - and Andy Smillie - who runs the Warhammer Community team.
Tune in at 17:15 tomorrow, UK time, to watch live and maybe even have your own questions answered - if you're a Warhammer 40,000 fan, or interested in the new edition, this is a live feed you won't want to miss
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Post by: Lobokai
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:from facebook
We have something very exciting on the way tomorrow folks.
We'll be bringing you a live question and answer session on the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. We'll have Pete Foley - head of the teams behind the new edition's rules and setting - and Andy Smillie - who runs the Warhammer Community team.
Tune in at 17:15 tomorrow, UK time, to watch live and maybe even have your own questions answered - if you're a Warhammer 40,000 fan, or interested in the new edition, this is a live feed you won't want to miss
I'm intrigued
I stopped buying books and playing 40k mid 7th... I've got 5 full companies of marines, based, painted, etc... 3 of which "historically" recreate actual companies, and I have 4k or more points of Tau, CSM, Daemons, Orks, GK, Necrons, and more too... but this is GW's last chance... I'll keep my models, but I have no doubt that my entire play group will stop playing if this isn't basically free rules and spend money on models... after all, there's other ways to use all of our models
https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/grimdark-future/
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Post by: Bottle
 Gimgamgoo wrote: Bottle wrote:@Gimgamgoo
For me the positives of having the points seperate to the warscrolls far outweighs any negatives. Surely you can appreciate having the points seperate and all in one book means GW can rebalance every faction at once without needing to re-edit every single Warscroll (which would also make pages and pages of your Battletome out-of-date too).
This is something WHFB never had, instead armies would be stuck with the same points values for years and even across editions. I like the new system much better. 
Quite clearly it works ok for you and I don't have experience of AoS with points. I just thought editing a number on a pdf and uploading it over an old version would be less hassle than reprinting an entire book for GW. Cheaper for us as well.
Surely GW is better off with us spending £30 on figures than £30 on a book. The profit margins on a sprue of plastic has to be significantly higher than on a book.
BTW that AoS army builder looks nice. Let's hope nuGW keep it free and not on some subsciption service like they would have done a few years ago.
Unless you want everything to be digital the problem is updating all those points costs when they are printed on the top of your warscrolls in battletome requires reprinting all of the books rather than just the GHB. A second reason is GW is trying to encourage multiple ways to play and having the points written in stone on the Warscroll means people are less likely to play without points, where-as the current system clearly defines points as being something for 'Matched Play', whereas a Warscroll is something used in Open, Narrative and Matched.
I really like the system it has. The GHBII isn't just going to be new points. It's going to have a new set of tournament standard scenarios and new narrative content (whatever that might entail, new campaign systems for example). Having it updated yearly means the meta is balanced much better and the game is constantly kept fresh.
To me it seems such a small downside, (I can't see the stats and points on the same page) compared to a host of upsides, (I get all the points for all factions in one book, points can be re-tweaked yearly, battletomes stay valid longer and across editions of the GHB, fun narrative-only battalions can be added in without the risk of unbalancing tournament play).
( PS. GW do already offer a subscription army builder service within the app. It's really good and offers more features than scrollbuilder (plus you don't need wi-fi) so for me it is definitely worth the 99p I pay a month for it. What's great about the new GW is that rather than ask Scrollbuilder to stop now they have their own, they are instead going to be moving scrollbuilder over to the community website).
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Post by: frozenwastes
The reasons people really should be talking about AoS and what they think of it in this thread about new40k is the sheer number of similarities GW has already mentioned.
If people have a D&D edition war level of hate or love for AoS then they're going to have to deal with that if they plan on playing the soon to be current version of 40k. There are going to be elements from AoS in 40k. Likely many of them.
So if you think AoS is an abortion or the worst thing GW ever did, you're going to have to deal with that if you want to play the new version of 40k. Or if you just want to have a meaningful discussion about the game that goes beyond expressions of your disgust or contempt.
As for the freemium pay to win thing, I think that's somewhat fair. I also think the whale customer being the minority is also worth considering. A very large number of new 40k players are going to put very small amounts of money into the rules side of things.
In some ways the free rules and stats are a natural progression of GW's miniature centrc approach. That because the real money is in selling miniatures, giving the rules away can be a marketing tool for their core businesses, selling miniatures.
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Post by: KingmanHighborn
 the_nightlord wrote: Um really guys/gals. You really believe that GW is just gonna hand over all the rules and rules/points systems to ALL the 40 armies in production for free on a website?? You either have wishful thinking or drinking the koolaid GW wants you drink. First off YES look at AOS Age of Sigmar. GW learned real fast that it needed a point system for a game the was falling faster the then Hindenberg . Then suddenly army books started rolling out. So the first things released will be basic rules to introduce 40K . Then more rules PER ARMY. Then if you want to play with "YOUR" whole army you'll have to buy the NEW AND IMPROVED codex as they are released ONCE AGAIN!!!
GW just isn't going to "GIVE" you army list and points for every model they produced. All the time and money to pay the people working on the game system alone needs to be paid. And all the stock holders want their money too. And eventually they will release ALL the "RULES" to the game. And don't be surprised that will be a 50.00 book. ONLY the introductory rules will be free.
Bottom line GW is always and will always be about making money and finding ways of getting it out of your hands. No matter how they do it. And I promise you there will be an FAQ with in 6 months of the release of the majority of the game.
All I can say to you people praiseing this new release is either your too new, too blind to whats going on, or you work for them( GW) and just trying to pump this new 8th edition for all its work.
I have played 40k since rogue trader. I weathered rules changes after rules changes for years. I played GW Epic Space Marines, I owned most everything for the game. GW changed the rules and the game died. I played ManOwar. GW just quit supporting it all together.I also played many many other GW games over the years that just died off. Then I got into WH Fantasy. All the while still playing and enduring GWs constant rules changes for 40k.After AOS release I dropped WHF completely. And I do mean EVERYTHING. And now I'm about to have several hundreds of dollars worth of useless rules and codex books sitting in my library. Some books were just bought as recently as this year. I knew GW was gonna release 8th edition, But I didn't think they would go to this extreme with what they learned from the ABORTION called AOS. But, it looks like GW may finally cut their own throats. Remember all current tournys through out the USA are based on current point systems and most people have built their armies using those tourney rules. Think how many people ran out and bought new vehicles for their armies due to the formations in the codexs. Are these gone too???
If this is the case are the tourney managers gonna jump up and totally change their rules, or are they just gonna stick to 7th edition until GW works out all the bugs that will definitely come with a brand new rules system. And the spring/ summer time is when most tournies will be run. AND we all know how "PLAY TESTED" 40k rules are. FAQs are gonna be out within 6 months. Also Are the new rules gonna cover EVERY army currently released; I mean since our current codexs will now be useless according to GW. Do you all realize how generic this game will be. And then suddenly in a few months GW will start releasing codexs for 50.00 a pop once again. Just like they did for AOS. People of the world of 40K I feel GW is either gonna look like the Greatest show on earth. Or they may have just blown a big hole in the only part of the ship that hasent filled with water yet. GWs excuse was to make the game more affordable. Maybe they should have looked at the price of their minis first. And stuck with paper back codexs.
TO this day i'll never understand this company. Back in the day TSR and FASA were some of the big boys on the block. Look where they are now. Maybe GW is about to go the way of the dinosaur. Or become the goose that laid another golden egg. Only time will tell. But this maybe where I get off the ever turning merry go round called 40k. Good day.
Amen and well said.
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Post by: Gimgamgoo
Bottle wrote:
Unless you want everything to be digital the problem is updating all those points costs when they are printed on the top of your warscrolls in battletome requires reprinting all of the books rather than just the GHB. A second reason is GW is trying to encourage multiple ways to play and having the points written in stone on the Warscroll means people are less likely to play without points, where-as the current system clearly defines points as being something for 'Matched Play', whereas a Warscroll is something used in Open, Narrative and Matched.
I really like the system it has. The GHBII isn't just going to be new points. It's going to have a new set of tournament standard scenarios and new narrative content (whatever that might entail, new campaign systems for example). Having it updated yearly means the meta is balanced much better and the game is constantly kept fresh.
To me it seems such a small downside, (I can't see the stats and points on the same page) compared to a host of upsides, (I get all the points for all factions in one book, points can be re-tweaked yearly, battletomes stay valid longer and across editions of the GHB, fun narrative-only battalions can be added in without the risk of unbalancing tournament play).
( PS. GW do already offer a subscription army builder service within the app. It's really good and offers more features than scrollbuilder (plus you don't need wi-fi) so for me it is definitely worth the 99p I pay a month for it. What's great about the new GW is that rather than ask Scrollbuilder to stop now they have their own, they are instead going to be moving scrollbuilder over to the community website).
Ah... fair enough. I hadn't realised the battletomes were prints of what was available digitally. I thought the AoS books were mixes of lore, scenarios and formations.
If the battletomes are the army stats/abilities then keeping them points free makes sense. My bad for not keeping upto date with AoS. Thanks for the clear picture.
I'm all for a new version of 40k and don't mind it being in AoS style at all. I just didn't want it for fantasy as I liked the old world setting (having wargamed in it and rpg'd for decades) and the generic tolkienesque style it had - AoS fantasy wasn't for me. AoS 40k probably will be.
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Post by: Vaktathi
 Genoside07 wrote:I don't understand why GW thinks someone will not spend more than thirty minutes to read the rules
but will spend hours assembling and painting their miniatures..
Are all the miniatures going to two piece models that are snap fit? Don't want the customer
base spending to much time with their new hobby... Just seems like two different ideas mixed.
When I first got into GWs games.. I wanted a big massive rule book, proving that I could do things
that was difficult.. but thinking every customer has an attention of a gnat may end up hurting them.
Look at how well Shadow Wars sold and the rules are actually seem quite long compared to AoS
but I feel it makes for a better game.
The problem with 40k currently is that the rules are ridiculously, absurdly long, to the point where you almost need to take a class on "Warhammer 101", and, more to the point, all that length doesn't really add any tactical depth to the game. We have special rules that just grant other special rules. We have special rules for mystierous terrain and objectives that don't really add anything big but do slowdown gameplay. We numerous special rules that all fundamentally do the same thing (e.g. FNP vs RP) in slightly different ways. We have rules that impart a level of granularity to the game that is just kind of absurd (e.g. why are we worrying about what type of blade an IG sergeant's power weapon has in an irrelevant duel with random Nob in the middle of a game with two dozen tanks and 150 infantry on the board?). We have so many rules sources that nobody can afford to buy them all, much less devote the time to analyze and comprehend them all. And, fundamentally, the game isn't any deeper as a tactical simulation than it was when 3E came out.
That's the problem with the 40k rules. We have lots of rules, but they're really just there for their own sake, they're just extra stuff to memorize, not stuff that really adds meaningful tactical depth. It's trying to hamfist RPG level detail and Epic level units and strategic assets into a platoon or company level wargame.
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Post by: VeteranNoob
You can submit some questions too via that Facebook post ahead of time and hopefully they get addressed.
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Post by: CragHack
TL;DR, but did anyone mention that Templates are going away? I guess they did...
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
I'm glad. Spacing meant that small templates were all but useless and even large templates never hit more than 3, maybe 4 models tops.
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Post by: streetsamurai
 Not-not-kenny wrote: tyrannosaurus wrote:The FAQ gives me hope that the rules won't be dumbed down to the point of AoS simplicity, which has about as much tactical nuance as Hungry Hippo. Interesting that 40K could end up as the tactical choice after Fantasy held that title for so long.
It's statements like this that make it seem like people speak out on a game they've never played. I honestly don't see how AoS is less tactical than 40K, maybe less tactical than WHFB, and certainly differently tactical from 40K. Comparing it to hungry hippo or whatever children's game they can come up with just reeks of glanced at the four pages of rules maybe played a game or two before GHB and then said "f it".
peoplewho think AOS is a tactical game obviously have a very limited knowledge of the other miniature games that exist. It's a decent game to pass a few hours, but it is very shallow tactically
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Post by: VeteranNoob
 streetsamurai wrote: Not-not-kenny wrote: tyrannosaurus wrote:The FAQ gives me hope that the rules won't be dumbed down to the point of AoS simplicity, which has about as much tactical nuance as Hungry Hippo. Interesting that 40K could end up as the tactical choice after Fantasy held that title for so long.
It's statements like this that make it seem like people speak out on a game they've never played. I honestly don't see how AoS is less tactical than 40K, maybe less tactical than WHFB, and certainly differently tactical from 40K. Comparing it to hungry hippo or whatever children's game they can come up with just reeks of glanced at the four pages of rules maybe played a game or two before GHB and then said "f it".
peoplewho think AOS is a tactical game obviously have a very limited knowledge of the other miniature games that exist. It's a decent game to pass a few hours, but it it very shallow tactically
 *blink blink* that'll be a agree to disagree 
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Post by: Darksider
streetsamurai wrote: Not-not-kenny wrote: tyrannosaurus wrote:The FAQ gives me hope that the rules won't be dumbed down to the point of AoS simplicity, which has about as much tactical nuance as Hungry Hippo. Interesting that 40K could end up as the tactical choice after Fantasy held that title for so long.
It's statements like this that make it seem like people speak out on a game they've never played. I honestly don't see how AoS is less tactical than 40K, maybe less tactical than WHFB, and certainly differently tactical from 40K. Comparing it to hungry hippo or whatever children's game they can come up with just reeks of glanced at the four pages of rules maybe played a game or two before GHB and then said "f it".
peoplewho think AOS is a tactical game obviously have a very limited knowledge of the other miniature games that exist. It's a decent game to pass a few hours, but it it very shallow tactically
Yep you're right and so 40k is also not that tactical^^. Don't know why people always want to discuss this further. GW Games are not that tactical. If you want a tactical game search outside of GW or play Chess.
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Post by: frozenwastes
One thing I think is totally valid is not liking buying a codex or army book and then having a new edition come out in a short time. I honestly don't know how many game hours or hours spent reading the fiction or looking at the pictures and modelling sections are needed for a given person to feel like they got their money's worth and that the new edition isn't basically making a product they have decline in value.
People are interested in army books for different reasons. Just as they are interested in different elements of the hobby for different reasons. Some people get the game publications for the same reason they get an art book or a coffee table book. Others get them just for the game rules. Others find the modelling and painting areas to be their favorite parts. Others love the fiction and having short pieces to read to supplement the novels that are available.
When i got a WHFB army book about two months later it was invalidated. Since I bought the army book as 100% game rules, I was very annoyed. I have since come to appreciate the book for its non rules content, but that didn't really do anything for me at the time.
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Post by: Orthon
Whatever the validity of the current ruleset, the current codices that define the "meta" are complete garbage. GW did the right move purging the existing codices and supplements. Burn it with fire.
Bye, Battle Company with hundreds of free points of transports. Compound that with grav spam.
Bye, ridiculously OP Eldar codex.
Bye, OP Tau codex.
Bye, OP Daemon codex and Grimoire Tzeentch rerollable 2++ save shenanigans.
None of this 6th/7th edition garbage will be missed. The game has been stale af for two editions with Eldar, Tau, Daemons, and Space Marines getting unfair advantages in various different forms but being on top pretty much the entire time.
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Post by: SeanDrake
-=Edit=- Pointless off-topic post deleted. There have been enough warnings. We are NOT talking about Age of Sigmar. The topic is right there in the title of the thread. - Lorek
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Post by: nudibranch
The "is AoS tactically deep" argument always devolves into a cycle of "yes it is" and "no it isn't" without ever actually going anywhere. I think it's time to move on...
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Post by: streetsamurai
yeah. I think that 7th edition was pretyy solid, as I really liked the psychic phase and the list building advantage they had at the beggining, but the codex, formations and expansions completely ruined it
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Post by: frozenwastes
-=Edit=- Pointless off-topic post deleted. There have been enough warnings. The topic is right there in the title of the thread. - Lorek
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Post by: streetsamurai
 nudibranch wrote:The "is AoS tactically deep" argument always devolves into a cycle of "yes it is" and "no it isn't" without ever actually going anywhere. I think it's time to move on...
to be honest, my comment was deliberately provocative since I'm tired of the ridiculous argument that everyone who doesn't like AOS hasn't played it.
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Post by: SeanDrake
nudibranch wrote:The "is AoS tactically deep" argument always devolves into a cycle of "yes it is" and "no it isn't" without ever actually going anywhere. I think it's time to move on...
I would but AoS fans seem determand to have 40k reduced to the lowest common denominator as well.
My only hope is that GW's threat to AoS 30k was a joke or somthing but I have a feeling some people will only be happy once allnGW games are AoS.
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Post by: frozenwastes
streetsamurai wrote:to be honest, my comment was deliberately provocative since I'm tired of the ridiculous argument that everyone who doesn't like AOS hasn't played it.
I think the real argument they should be making is that they notice that so many people who express dislike of the game demonstrate they don't know the game. It's not that everyone that doesn't like AoS hasn't played it but that many of its most vocal critics demonstrate their unfamiliarity with it in the things they criticize about it. Sort of like if a movie critic criticized a scene in a way that showed to people who had seen the film that the critic hadn't watched it.
I don't really like:
IGOUGO turns where I move, shoot and charge while you wait
Units killing units means models removed can be nowhere near the attacking model
Shooting into melee
The sheer number of dice that can get rolled by larger units that get bonus dice based on their size
Some of these things are probably in current 40k and will be in new 40k.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
You can be pretty sure that most launch Codexes will be to last a bloody long time, some never to be updated a la WHFB-carryover Warscrolls.
With NuMarines and new factions (Death Guard) coming, I wouldn't anticipate any releases for 'complete' factions like Genestealer Cult. Even the Mechanicus are unlikely to get stuff. Space Marines, Chaos and maybe the Guard will be in for updates early on. After that it's whoever's number gets drawn as Current Campaign Adversary in the new narrative, and everyone else had better get comfy and patient.
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Post by: ImAGeek
I do get the frustrations of buying a book and it being invalidated soon after, but when is an good time to stop doing books before a new edition?
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Post by: nudibranch
SeanDrake wrote: nudibranch wrote:The "is AoS tactically deep" argument always devolves into a cycle of "yes it is" and "no it isn't" without ever actually going anywhere. I think it's time to move on...
I would but AoS fans seem determand to have 40k reduced to the lowest common denominator as well.
My only hope is that GW's threat to AoS 30k was a joke or somthing but I have a feeling some people will only be happy once allnGW games are AoS.
So... what? You're going to fling your faeces at those who disagree and wait for them to throw thier faeces back? Seems to be little more than gak-stirring if you ask me.
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Post by: ImAGeek
SeanDrake wrote: nudibranch wrote:The "is AoS tactically deep" argument always devolves into a cycle of "yes it is" and "no it isn't" without ever actually going anywhere. I think it's time to move on...
I would but AoS fans seem determand to have 40k reduced to the lowest common denominator as well.
My only hope is that GW's threat to AoS 30k was a joke or somthing but I have a feeling some people will only be happy once allnGW games are AoS.
This is GWs decision, nothing to do with AoS fans.
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Post by: frozenwastes
SeanDrake wrote:I would but AoS fans seem determand to have 40k reduced to the lowest common denominator as well.
Or they recognize that accessibility to new and young gamers is vital and that it may actually be possible to build a rich gaming experience with simple rules and complexity added on later from unit rules and scenarios.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
 ImAGeek wrote:I do get the frustrations of buying a book and it being invalidated soon after, but when is an good time to stop doing books before a new edition?
If we hadn't known it was coming already, Codex Leafletstodes and Codex Sisters of Pamhplet being *free* with the models should have been a warning sign :-D
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Post by: frozenwastes
I really don't think there is a good solution to army books and supplements near the end of an edition that actually changes things. People would find themselves annoyed by a dead time of no new books if they made a gap period. Others feel blind sided for buying a release so close to the change.
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Post by: Vaktathi
Orthon wrote:Whatever the validity of the current ruleset, the current codices that define the "meta" are complete garbage. GW did the right move purging the existing codices and supplements. Burn it with fire.
Bye, Battle Company with hundreds of free points of transports. Compound that with grav spam.
Bye, ridiculously OP Eldar codex.
Bye, OP Tau codex.
Bye, OP Daemon codex and Grimoire Tzeentch rerollable 2++ save shenanigans.
None of this 6th/7th edition garbage will be missed. The game has been stale af for two editions with Eldar, Tau, Daemons, and Space Marines getting unfair advantages in various different forms but being on top pretty much the entire time.
^^^
Also throw in Necrons to boot.
Scatterbikes, D weapons, Decurions, Gladius & Skyhammer, Riptidewing, Screamerstar, etc all have been tremendously negative for this game.
8E will almost certainly bring its own problems, but seeing these things go away is encouraging.
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Post by: Lord Kragan
Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
This is the same galaxy, but it’s showing some wear and tear. A catastrophic warp storm looks to have rent the Imperium nearly in half. Even before the Fall of Cadia, the immaterium had been growing ever more turbulent. Travel and communication suffered increasing disturbances as the events of the Gathering Storm unfolded. It seems that eventually reality could take no more, and a titanic warp-rift tore across the galaxy from the Eye of Terror to the Hadex Anomaly on the Eastern Fringe. There will be more on this new interstellar feature in the coming days.
While Terra still stands at the heart of Segmentum Solar, and much of the galaxy will be familiar, there are also a few other new arrivals on the map. At a quick glance, you can see the Planet of the Sorcerers, an expanding Necron empire in the galactic east and new warp storms in every segmentum.
All of these developments set up some exciting narratives for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000.
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Post by: Whirlwind
 DarkBlack wrote:
How is Gates of Antares?
Have you given Kings of War a go for your mass battle rank and flank game itch? It plays better than it reads and I would highly recommend it.
Gates of Antares is great (I think it is anyway)! It's based off Bolt Action but with some changes (for example it uses D10s and Bolt Action uses D6s). It feels like 2nd edition 40k in some ways but is less of a fantasy style background (so no elves, psychics etc). All the races apart from a few are developments from humans that evolved or have been engineered. it's well worth looking into especially if you are looking at a 'better' 40k style game that's less bloated and less liable to the fates of dice. Also it's jointly written by Rick Priestley and he always seems to help design decent games (I just don't think GW have the same sort of talent anymore). If you are not keen on the new style 40k it's well worth looking at (and it's massively cheaper to boot).
I have tried KoW and enjoyed it but I think I'm still stuck in the "it isn't Warhammer rutt"  . I think it's a bit too streamlined and I did enjoy some of the more whacky elements to WFB. It's the OTT things that really kill WFB in the later editions. Just need something that is somewhere in the middle of the two if you see what I mean.
Automatically Appended Next Post: nudibranch wrote:The "is AoS tactically deep" argument always devolves into a cycle of "yes it is" and "no it isn't" without ever actually going anywhere. I think it's time to move on...
The problem is that it's relative based on the user which is dependent on background, education levels, what the individual skills are and so on. Therefore you are never going to get a straight answer on this one. Depending on how an individuals brain works something that might be tactical to one person is hell for another. What might be tactical for one person might be completely obvious to another. This is probably where the differences lie. A brain wired to understand statistics might not really see the challenge in AoS because for that person they see the synergies easily, hence more complex linking rules will interest that brain more because the statistical permutations are much greater. On the other hand a brain that sees distances easily might not find a game based on this type of strategy interesting because to that person it is obvious, hence it will be more interesting to have games based on numbers (and hence dice rolling) because it is less obvious and challenges them intellectually more.
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Post by: Lorek
streetsamurai wrote:to be honest, my comment was deliberately provocative since I'm tired of the ridiculous argument that everyone who doesn't like AOS hasn't played it.
This is a violation of Rule #1. If you're tired of hearing something here on Dakka Dakka, maybe get out of the house and go to a park or something.
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Post by: Whirlwind
Bottle wrote:@Gimgamgoo
This is something WHFB never had, instead armies would be stuck with the same points values for years and even across editions. I like the new system much better.
That's not quite true - in the earlier editions they did produce FAQs and even sections to print out or copy out of WD so you could stick them into your army book to update them. The real issue is when GW stopped issuing updates of any use and wouldn't look at balancing things when they needed to. It's just GW have now gone back to provided FAQs. It was a policy decision to stop providing updates. All they have gone back to doing is providing the same thing as they did several editions previously.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
Lord Kragan wrote:Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
Imperium Nihilus? Looks like the BA are gonna be in trouble 
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Post by: shinros
GoatboyBeta wrote:Lord Kragan wrote:Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
Imperium Nihilus? Looks like the BA are gonna be in trouble
Yeah looking at that map Blood angels are going to be in trouble big time.
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Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame
That map is pretty scary.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Wow, thinks sure move around a lot after whatever warp nonsense is going on.
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Post by: TheDraconicLord
Well, if the Tau were having a hard fight before, now they are completely surrounded by very bad things. Every sentient race in the galaxy seems to be in deep gak right now. (Not sure how Nids feel about this tear in the galaxy)
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Post by: Whirlwind
 joseph_curwen wrote:
40k started as an expansion of the already existing WFB and it's still here, 30 years later (and, let's face it, the rules for both had always been more similar than different.)
Not really. 40k was always a skirmish game from the Rogue Trader days but WFB started as more of a roleplaying game that morphed into a mass battle game. RP used the same basic principles but once had separated they were two completely independent styles that played differently.
By the time they became main stream they were completely different beasts. If 40k does go down the route of using the same core rules (which I understand why) then they will in effect be the same game just with different 'skins'. There are reasons that wargaming companies produce different types of games is because they appeal to different types of gamers. If both the main games are the same then you can find that one might cannibalise off the other if you assume that most people have approximately fixed annual amount of money they can spend on such luxuries. Hence if Bob has £1000 per year to spend then he has to choose between the two games. What you really want is to attract a different type of gamer to your other games as that expands your player base and supports both systems. Companies generally spend a lot of time ensuring that they don't design things that will cannibalise their own sales from elsewhere as that just doubles your overheads but only attracts the same customer. Automatically Appended Next Post: GoatboyBeta wrote:Lord Kragan wrote:Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
Imperium Nihilus? Looks like the BA are gonna be in trouble
I think they were in trouble after the end of their campaign book. Interesting there are no craftworlds mentioned.
87618
Post by: kodos
Orthon wrote:
Bye, Battle Company with hundreds of free points of transports. Compound that with grav spam.
Bye, ridiculously OP Eldar codex.
Bye, OP Tau codex.
Bye, OP Daemon codex and Grimoire Tzeentch rerollable 2++ save shenanigans.
you really think that bad balancing and "we write rules because they sound cool" is gone?
29274
Post by: Not-not-kenny
GoatboyBeta wrote:Lord Kragan wrote:Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
Imperium Nihilus? Looks like the BA are gonna be in trouble
What's Imperium Nihilus?
57651
Post by: davou
 TheDraconicLord wrote:Well, if the Tau were having a hard fight before, now they are completely surrounded by very bad things. Every sentient race in the galaxy seems to be in deep gak right now. (Not sure how Nids would geel about this tear in the galaxy)
Orks must be having fun. Its basically a giant summer vacation in the milky way for them 
87618
Post by: kodos
Not-not-kenny wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:Lord Kragan wrote:Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
Imperium Nihilus? Looks like the BA are gonna be in trouble
What's Imperium Nihilus?
the old traditional Imperium which is now separated from the new shiny Imperium
90752
Post by: Warhams-77
Really interesting development. This map... nice! Exactly what I had hoped for when they (reliable rumor sources and GW) mentioned 40k will focus more on story progression. It allows for some entirely new campaign scenarios. Two Imperiums?
10953
Post by: JohnnyHell
Oh interesting. There might be the good, good shiny knights in new armour guys and the good, grimdark, grumpy guys from Terra. Very interesting!
101511
Post by: Future War Cultist
So the Imperium is now split in two? Very interesting! Are they antagonistic to each other?
108925
Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame
 kodos wrote:the old traditional Imperium which is now separated from the new shiny Imperium
If this what they are doing, I'm kind of surprised they stuck Guilliman on Terra rather than having him be at Ultramar and using warp storms as a reason to separate off that part of the galaxy. That way they could have the old Imperium set in its superstitions and crazy traditional bureaucracy while having Guilliman start doing his "being reasonable" nonsense in semi-isolation.
I can see why they might want to have him on Terra so the entrenched bureaucracy can serve as a counter to him that keeps things from changing too fast while out in the Imperium Nihilus all different kinds of crazy can being going down.
I'm excited to see what they say tomorrow.
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
kodos wrote: Not-not-kenny wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:Lord Kragan wrote:Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
Imperium Nihilus? Looks like the BA are gonna be in trouble
What's Imperium Nihilus?
the old traditional Imperium which is now separated from the new shiny Imperium
Not quite.
Nihil means "nothing" in latin, so Nihilus in this sense probably means something like "former" or "lost". In other words, its the imperium that's been separated by that gaping scar in reality. They are really trying to mimic the Roman Empire, it seems, with two Imperiums, although in this cause it was not a desired outcome by the Imperium.
We might see an expansion of Imperium Nihilus down the line; being separated from the main imperium is bound to have created some variance.
97288
Post by: Thebiggesthat
As someone with a physics degree, masters ongoing, a job based on software test and statistical analysis, please take that chip on your shoulder Whirlwind and insert it somewhere painful. It's absolutely nothing to do with intelligence and background. Although I'm glad it doesn't appeal to you, as you seem like a conceited ass and I can imagine nothing worse than bumping into you in a tournament.
63118
Post by: SeanDrake
 CthuluIsSpy wrote: kodos wrote: Not-not-kenny wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:Lord Kragan wrote:Warhammer community has posted an image on the current state of the galactic map and holly hell, the word tearing a new one's gained a whole dimension of meaning.
Imperium Nihilus? Looks like the BA are gonna be in trouble
What's Imperium Nihilus?
the old traditional Imperium which is now separate  d from the new shiny Imperium
Not quite.
Nihil means "nothing" in latin, so Nihilus in this sense probably means something like "former" or "lost". In other words, its the imperium that's been separated by that gaping scar in reality. They are really trying to mimic the Roman Empire, it seems, with two Imperiums, although in this cause it was not a desired outcome by the Imperium.
We might see an expansion of Imperium Nihilus down the line; being separated from the main imperium is bound to have created some variance.
Imperium nihlus is where the original armies "The Lost" so to speak will be kept to not sully the new progression and armies.
29274
Post by: Not-not-kenny
So it's not an already established piece of fluff, like the Imperium Secundus?
83301
Post by: shinr
If Terra and Macragge were on different sides of the giant chaos rift, it could have been a forceful 40k recreation of the Roman Empire Division into Western and Eastern Empires.
EDIT: So Cicatrix is an actual word and means "A Scar of a Healed Wound".
Wanna bet that that huge rift actually existed sometime in the past before someone metamorphically sewn it shut?
101511
Post by: Future War Cultist
I was just about to say that it's just the Roman Empire after Diocletian! Beat me to the punch!
89883
Post by: Wonderwolf
Imperium Secundus never actually happened, despite the book of that name.
It was a plan to make Sanguinius Nu-Emperor and such, but Curze/the Lion/lots of Perptuals happened, Abnett kinda stopped writing Heresy books and we all know how the story ends for Sanguinius anyhow.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Didn't even notice the split Imperium. Nice catch. Where does it say the Imperium Nihilus thing?
108925
Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame
It's funny, many of the 40k podcasts I listen to come out every-other week and they many of them already released an episode week. If they already have their next show in the hopper it might end up being a boring month of podcasts for me.
I'm glad GW is going to be releasing new info every day. I just need to keep from getting too hyped as that leads to disappointment even if the game company does a good job.
101511
Post by: Future War Cultist
 unmercifulconker wrote:Didn't even notice the split Imperium. Nice catch. Where does it say the Imperium Nihilus thing?
Look along the top of the map, from the top right of Cadia and the Eye Of Terror right out to the Eastern Fringe. It's obscured by the warp storms though.
94056
Post by: nudibranch
Thebiggesthat wrote:As someone with a physics degree, masters ongoing, a job based on software test and statistical analysis, please take that chip on your shoulder Whirlwind and insert it somewhere painful. It's absolutely nothing to do with intelligence and background. Although I'm glad it doesn't appeal to you, as you seem like a conceited ass and I can imagine nothing worse than bumping into you in a tournament.
Okay, I'm a big fan of Age of Sigmar, it's probably my favourite GW game at the moment, and I'd like to politely ask you to calm down. You're making us look bad.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
 Future War Cultist wrote: unmercifulconker wrote:Didn't even notice the split Imperium. Nice catch. Where does it say the Imperium Nihilus thing?
Look along the top of the map, from the top right of Cadia and the Eye Of Terror right out to the Eastern Fringe. It's obscured by the warp storms though.
Oh hahahaha the big writing plastered right across. 
Thanks haha.
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
110703
Post by: Galas
 lord_blackfang wrote:Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
What?! Heresy!
Shhhh... Wraithknights stay calm, he wasn't talking serious...obviously no other reasons exist to buy other things besides you and your little biker cousins...
I have 30 Vespids and I'm not sure if it matters that I bough them in the past or buy them now
PD: I love the people that get mad when GW don't announce anything, and then get mad too when GW announce things. What exactly that people want besides crying on the internet?
98762
Post by: RazorEdge
Unification Wars - Early Roman Republic (pre Pyrrhic War)
Early Great Crusade - Roman Republic
Later Great Crusade - Roman Pricipat (Early - mid Empire)
Horus Heresy - 3rd Century Crisis
M32-M41 Imperium - Early Roman Dominate (Roman Empire since Dioletian in 284, Legions divided in Limitanei and Comitatensis with 1.000 Legionaries)
M42 Imperium - Later Roman Dominat (Divided Empire since the Death of Theodosius I. in 395)
101511
Post by: Future War Cultist
unmercifulconker wrote: Future War Cultist wrote: unmercifulconker wrote:Didn't even notice the split Imperium. Nice catch. Where does it say the Imperium Nihilus thing?
Look along the top of the map, from the top right of Cadia and the Eye Of Terror right out to the Eastern Fringe. It's obscured by the warp storms though.
Oh hahahaha the big writing plastered right across.
Thanks haha.
I didn't see it at first too. And you're welcome. 
98515
Post by: Lord Kragan
 Galas wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
What?! Heresy!
Shhhh... Wraithknights stay calm, he wasn't talking serious...obviously no other reasons exist to buy other things besides you and your little biker cousins...
I have 30 Vespids and I'm not sure if it matters that I bough them in the past or buy them now
PD: I love the people that get mad when GW don't announce anything, and then get mad too when GW announce things. What exactly that people want besides crying on the internet?
Announce the very specific thing they like, the very specifc way they want.
97288
Post by: Thebiggesthat
nudibranch wrote:Thebiggesthat wrote:As someone with a physics degree, masters ongoing, a job based on software test and statistical analysis, please take that chip on your shoulder Whirlwind and insert it somewhere painful. It's absolutely nothing to do with intelligence and background. Although I'm glad it doesn't appeal to you, as you seem like a conceited ass and I can imagine nothing worse than bumping into you in a tournament.
Okay, I'm a big fan of Age of Sigmar, it's probably my favourite GW game at the moment, and I'd like to politely ask you to calm down. You're making us look bad.
I don't speak for anyone but myself, so please lay off the dramatics. I won't have some conceited bs about AoS being a game for idiots (I'm paraphrasing) on here. It's utter rubbish, and deserves the contempt I'm showing it.
63118
Post by: SeanDrake
Lord Kragan wrote: Galas wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
What?! Heresy!
Shhhh... Wraithknights stay calm, he wasn't talking serious...obviously no other reasons exist to buy other things besides you and your little biker cousins...
I have 30 Vespids and I'm not sure if it matters that I bough them in the past or buy them now
PD: I love the people that get mad when GW don't announce anything, and then get mad too when GW announce things. What exactly that people want besides crying on the internet?
Announce the very specific thing they like, the very specifc way they want.
Yep when it should obviously be the very specific thing you like the very specifc way you want right.
83198
Post by: Gimgamgoo
 Whirlwind wrote:
Companies generally spend a lot of time ensuring that they don't design things that will cannibalise their own sales from elsewhere as that just doubles your overheads but only attracts the same customer.
True. And obvious. However GW is finding itself sitting in the middle of a rapidly expanding mass of games with multiples of every genre appearing each year. Surely they want to ensure they hang onto every one of their customers. The old advantage of playing a GW game was that you could always find an opponent. As many move to other games, this is becoming less true. If combining AoS and 40k into an interchangeable system, it would in effect double the amount of gamers. As we all know, people tend to join in and play the most popular games as they can get opponents.
All my speculation ofc.
I imagine GW learnt a lot from the initial AoS flop and have turned it around. 40k is going to be massive this time around. The hype wagon already has loads interested, whereas in the past, you'd suddenly learn a new version was out barely a month before in an expanded WD advertising how awesome the new version would be. That was all.
By the time 40k comes out this time, we'll crash their servers downloading it on release day. Just hope you get the download in the first 10 mins... (No longer available)
98515
Post by: Lord Kragan
SeanDrake wrote:Lord Kragan wrote: Galas wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
What?! Heresy!
Shhhh... Wraithknights stay calm, he wasn't talking serious...obviously no other reasons exist to buy other things besides you and your little biker cousins...
I have 30 Vespids and I'm not sure if it matters that I bough them in the past or buy them now
PD: I love the people that get mad when GW don't announce anything, and then get mad too when GW announce things. What exactly that people want besides crying on the internet?
Announce the very specific thing they like, the very specifc way they want.
Yep when it should obviously be the very specific thing you like the very specifc way you want right.
Do you see me whining about them announcing 8th edition instead of general's handbook second edition?
70069
Post by: Rippy
STOP TALKING ABOUT AOS for feths sake
Also, maelstrom and eye connected now? Wouldn't be surprised to see a Huron/Abby triumvirate now.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Someone noted Huron and Abby had been removed from their WW displays not too long ago. I would not be surprised of Abby, Huron and Mortarion being the next Tri.
70069
Post by: Rippy
unmercifulconker wrote:Someone noted Huron and Abby had been removed from their WW displays not too long ago. I would not be surprised of Abby, Huron and Mortarion being the next Tri.
Sorry yes, this is what I was referencing thanks
Wouldn't be surprised if Chaos finally got their triumvirate to usher in 8th.
100911
Post by: Whirlwind
Thebiggesthat wrote: nudibranch wrote:Thebiggesthat wrote:As someone with a physics degree, masters ongoing, a job based on software test and statistical analysis, please take that chip on your shoulder Whirlwind and insert it somewhere painful. It's absolutely nothing to do with intelligence and background. Although I'm glad it doesn't appeal to you, as you seem like a conceited ass and I can imagine nothing worse than bumping into you in a tournament.
Okay, I'm a big fan of Age of Sigmar, it's probably my favourite GW game at the moment, and I'd like to politely ask you to calm down. You're making us look bad.
I don't speak for anyone but myself, so please lay off the dramatics. I won't have some conceited bs about AoS being a game for idiots (I'm paraphrasing) on here. It's utter rubbish, and deserves the contempt I'm showing it.
Ah, well I did wonder whether I might get the over-paranoid response on this because of lack of understanding. I didn't say that, never called anyone idiots and never inferred anything about anyone. What I said specifically was that peoples views on what makes a good tactical and bad tactical game is likely to be based on an individuals make up, whether that is genetics, how you were brought up, what you learnt as a child and so on. Therefore someone's preference for tactics and what they consider strategy is likely to be based on their background and hence you are never going to get a straight answer to which games requires better strategy. I was very clear to state that those that haven't been trained in statistics (and therefore more adept in that area) *might* prefer AoS compared to someone else that had had that training because the latter can see the links easier and therefore might find it both less appealing because it is 'easier' for them as an individual. I then provided an alternative example where movement might play a factor. However it is might because it is a possible hypothesis not a statement of fact - further research would need to be undertaken to see whether there were any common factors that might apply. I didn't say that those that play AoS *are* less capable statistically. As someone trained in physics I would have assumed you could determine the difference in the language rather conclude immediately that I was stating everyone that plays AoS is an idiot (which they are not and was never stated). Just because someone has a less able brain in certain areas compared to others does not make them an idiot. you are almost certainly good at statistics but probably rubbish at undertaking brain surgery or building a house. Not being able to undertake statistics, perform brain surgery or build a house does not make someone an 'idiot'. It is a factor of their raw genetics (intelligence), training, upbringing and so on that leads to a preference for a life style job that they prefer to undertake. The same goes for wargames and how that individual interprets what strategy is and whether something is strategic in their minds eye. You need to read statements more carefully rather than jumping to the conclusion that it's an attack on those playing AoS; as a scientist I would have assumed that you would have provided a counter argument if you disagreed rather than hurl abuse across the electrons.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
It was weird they never gave Chaos (the main antagonists in GS) a tri set, obviously they are saving the best till last.
Now these are 3 characters I would love to see in a new and shiny form.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
lord_blackfang wrote:Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
As someone who mostly plays 40k just when I'm looking for casual stuff, gotta' say, I agree with Pariah. I don't care about perfectly optimizing everything, or even keeping up with anything particularly well. However, there are some options that you just regret. As much as plasma pistols are a fun aesthetic, they're currently just terribly overpriced compared to equivalent choices. You don't need to be power gaming to want to avoid trash options.
There are, of course, people with no interest in gaming, but they'd still be affected to the degree that they're not interested in rapidly outdated kits. Which also affects selling price/ability to move their kits if they're interested in trading or selling in the future if they get bored with a collection.
So, it really only doesn't affect people who have little-to-no interest in game mechanics; who like a specific model design enough that they wouldn't care if it got replaced with a potentially cooler kit; and who aren't considering the value of their collection.
70069
Post by: Rippy
Join me in reporting everyone who is off topic AoS posting
unmercifulconker wrote:It was weird they never gave Chaos (the main antagonists in GS) a tri set, obviously they are saving the best till last.
Now these are 3 characters I would love to see in a new and shiny form.
Yes, it would make sense if they were saving them to usher in 8th edition, to increase hype etc.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
unmercifulconker wrote:It was weird they never gave Chaos (the main antagonists in GS) a tri set, obviously they are saving the best till last.
Now these are 3 characters I would love to see in a new and shiny form.
Would also be a nice opportunity to give some legions new characters, since AL, NL, IW, WB all have no named characters and only NL and IW even have unique kits (outside of FW).
Though, I certainly wouldn't be sad if some of the uglier CSM characters were replaced.
100911
Post by: Whirlwind
Gimgamgoo wrote: Whirlwind wrote:
Companies generally spend a lot of time ensuring that they don't design things that will cannibalise their own sales from elsewhere as that just doubles your overheads but only attracts the same customer.
True. And obvious. However GW is finding itself sitting in the middle of a rapidly expanding mass of games with multiples of every genre appearing each year. Surely they want to ensure they hang onto every one of their customers. The old advantage of playing a GW game was that you could always find an opponent. As many move to other games, this is becoming less true. If combining AoS and 40k into an interchangeable system, it would in effect double the amount of gamers. As we all know, people tend to join in and play the most popular games as they can get opponents.
All my speculation ofc.
Yeah understand it's speculation, but possibly testable so not unreasonable to state. The question would then be how many people already play both AoS and 40k. If there is little crossover than yes it potentially doubles the numbers of players both ways, however if the opposite is true and the cross over is already there then, assuming a fixed luxury expenditure per annum then GW could find that players just drift to the most popular game over time (it won't happen overnight) as you can concentrate funds on the one game not both and they both give similar experiences. The benefit to GW is if gamers have extra money burning a hole in their pocket that they aren't spending, but I think for most people there is likely to be an overall limit they are likely to want to spend in a year and if GW are already capturing this then I'm not sure what they expect to gain by having two system that are the same (assuming they are at this point, because we don't have all the details of 40k 8th yet).
722
Post by: Kanluwen
unmercifulconker wrote:Someone noted Huron and Abby had been removed from their WW displays not too long ago. I would not be surprised of Abby, Huron and Mortarion being the next Tri.
I would be surprised if it's Mortarion; but wouldn't be surprised to see a new named character introduced from one of the other Legions.
241
Post by: Ahtman
 spiralingcadaver wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
As someone who mostly plays 40k just when I'm looking for casual stuff, gotta' say, I agree with Pariah. I don't care about perfectly optimizing everything, or even keeping up with anything particularly well. However, there are some options that you just regret. As much as plasma pistols are a fun aesthetic, they're currently just terribly overpriced compared to equivalent choices. You don't need to be power gaming to want to avoid trash options.
There are, of course, people with no interest in gaming, but they'd still be affected to the degree that they're not interested in rapidly outdated kits. Which also affects selling price/ability to move their kits if they're interested in trading or selling in the future if they get bored with a collection.
So, it really only doesn't affect people who have little-to-no interest in game mechanics; who like a specific model design enough that they wouldn't care if it got replaced with a potentially cooler kit; and who aren't considering the value of their collection.
I'm pretty sure a standard Marine with a Bolter is still going to be ok. I understand being wary of special weapons, or even Heavy Weapons, but standard infantry, of just about any army, will not change much.
I'm still putting Assault Cannons on my Cataphractii regardless of changes though, as it is awesome.
23979
Post by: frozenwastes
What do you mean “3 ways to play”?
We realise that people like to play Warhammer 40,000 in different ways. 3 broad systems are covered in the new edition: 1) Open play is the most flexible, and easiest to get started with, allowing you to use any miniatures you like. 2) Narrative play is where you can refight the iconic battles of the 41st Millennium, or create your own campaigns and sagas. 3) Matched play is designed for more balanced and competitive games, ideal for gaming clubs, leagues and tournaments. However you want to enjoy playing Warhammer 40,000, there will be rules for that.
So what do you think these different modes of play might look like? Do we have any examples of GW using this approach in another game? A source of information about what this might be like in an actual published form? No.. that would be off topic
54021
Post by: Don Savik
spiralingcadaver wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Pariah-Miniatures wrote:You'd have to be a complete moron to go out and buy anything for any faction until they release the new edition and army rules.
Gw should be taking a sizable hit until then, hope they thought about that since they openly said all books will be invalidated with the new system. In other words, stupid people come buy stuff and assemble things that may not be great lol
But what if I have a reason to buy miniatures other than crushing n00bs with the latest copy/paste netlist
As someone who mostly plays 40k just when I'm looking for casual stuff, gotta' say, I agree with Pariah. I don't care about perfectly optimizing everything, or even keeping up with anything particularly well. However, there are some options that you just regret. As much as plasma pistols are a fun aesthetic, they're currently just terribly overpriced compared to equivalent choices. You don't need to be power gaming to want to avoid trash options.
There are, of course, people with no interest in gaming, but they'd still be affected to the degree that they're not interested in rapidly outdated kits. Which also affects selling price/ability to move their kits if they're interested in trading or selling in the future if they get bored with a collection.
So, it really only doesn't affect people who have little-to-no interest in game mechanics; who like a specific model design enough that they wouldn't care if it got replaced with a potentially cooler kit; and who aren't considering the value of their collection.
First of all, we don't even know what plasma weaponry is going to do in the new edition, let alone how much they'll cost. I like painting and modeling, I also like game mechanics. And you know whats terribly overpriced compared to equivalent choices in other books? The entire ork codex. Are all ork players foolish for collecting orks? I think building marines with plasma guns should be the least of anyone's worries.
We don't even know if the current 'non-trash' meta of grav spam biker deathstars will be even functional in the newer edition, so who are we to say whats bad or not?
110703
Post by: Galas
Rules come and go. But as I use all my miniatures in other systems normally I have 0 problems buying GW miniatures with 0 use in the "competitive" play of their systems.
31639
Post by: FabricatorGeneralMike
Thebiggesthat wrote:As someone with a physics degree, masters ongoing, a job based on software test and statistical analysis, please take that chip on your shoulder Whirlwind and insert it somewhere painful. It's absolutely nothing to do with intelligence and background. Although I'm glad it doesn't appeal to you, as you seem like a conceited ass and I can imagine nothing worse than bumping into you in a tournament.
Wow, I hope the air is breathable up there.... in fact YOU sound like the kind of person I would never want to run into anywhere. When you meet a stranger do you tell him all this stuff also? Do you start off your conversation with where you went to school and what degrees you have? Do you point out all the madeupism's also in all science fiction that just couldn't exist in 'Real Physics and Science'?
I dislike AoS also. I have played the game and it's not for me. I also dislike the way 40k has been going since the tail end of 5th edition. I really disliked 6th and 7th edition 40k. Funny story tho I LOVE 30k. I love the FW models, I love the fluff, I love everything about the Heresy ( except for the fact that the BL books have been dragging on WAY to long but we all knew they where going to flog that horse until it was well and dead right  ).
If the new 8th edition makes for a more streamlined game I am all for it. If it brings in more people then leave the system I am all for it. I use to HATE GW. I mean really hate GW I worked there I know all the BS and shenanigans that go on behind the scenes. It's horrible and I am so glad that I am out of there. But their change in communication policies over the last year or so have slowly softened me to GW. I mean when Adeptus Titanicus comes back out shut up and take my money GW!!!
I will give them credit where it's due. They have done a remarkable turnaround since Kirby stepped down. Whodathunked it that communicating with your fan base could bring positive results... or at least giving the appearance of communicating with them. When I left GW I told myself I wouldn't support them anymore ( FW is it's own beast and even then I've been buying most FW off of Ebay) but even I have started to change my way of thinking with GW. If they can get me a jaded 27 year vet of 40k/epic/ GW even considering giving them money again...well done GW.
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Post by: Megaknob
I started in 4th edition did not really follow the rules unless I was in a GW, stopped in 5th Ed really enjoyed those rules, then I stopped now I have come back to 7th Ed played a few games on TTS and it was not fun I like all of the special rules it's what makes each army unique.
But there's just to Many rules games take 4 hours at time I don't have that amount of time I have just bought the ork codex two weeks ago to be told by my local GW guy that it's no longer of use ..... guess what I don't care
Get rid of the system and start again AOS its ass, I don't care out winning I play orks I'm used to it as long as my boys are beautifully painted and blowing stuff up I'm having fun.
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Post by: davou
https://warhammer40000.com/terms-conditions/
They certainly have their bases covered here.....
Site changes
We aim to update our site regularly, and may change the content at any time. If the need arises, we may suspend access to our site, or close it indefinitely.
Any of the material on our site may be out of date at any given time, and we are under no obligation to update such material.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
 Don Savik wrote:First of all, we don't even know what plasma weaponry is going to do in the new edition, let alone how much they'll cost. (...) We don't even know if the current 'non-trash' meta of grav spam biker deathstars will be even functional in the newer edition, so who are we to say whats bad or not?
That's exactly my point. I was using the plasma pistol reference as a problem that the entire 3-7th edition has suffered from. Maybe they'll buff plasma pistols to reasonable and power weapons will be overpriced trash. Maybe Centurions will be out an terminators will be in. Maybe it'll be like AOS where AFAIK some upgrades are objectively better and free, and all your chainsword sergeants will be stupid when you can get free power swords.
Personally, I'm not buying anything and will be painting things I've built rather than assembling new characters, between now and the new edition drop.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
 davou wrote:https://warhammer40000.com/terms-conditions/
They certainly have their bases covered here.....
Site changes
We aim to update our site regularly, and may change the content at any time. If the need arises, we may suspend access to our site, or close it indefinitely.
Any of the material on our site may be out of date at any given time, and we are under no obligation to update such material.
It's pretty common from what I've seen.
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Post by: Megaknob
 ZebioLizard2 wrote: davou wrote:https://warhammer40000.com/terms-conditions/
They certainly have their bases covered here.....
Site changes
We aim to update our site regularly, and may change the content at any time. If the need arises, we may suspend access to our site, or close it indefinitely.
Any of the material on our site may be out of date at any given time, and we are under no obligation to update such material.
It's pretty common from what I've seen.
Multimillion £ company completely normal behaviour or did I miss something also.
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Post by: kestral
I am... ...cautiously optimistic. A new and old Imperium could really work, if some thought was put into the new one. Very cautious however, since all we've seen so far is "Bigger Marines".
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Post by: Bottle
Yeah, I've been getting more and more excited. Can't wait to see what the starter set holds!
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Post by: Phydox
So the codices and supplements will be discontinued after 7th.
Where do all the 30k books fit into all this? Has that been mentioned yet? Are they stopping the 30k series?
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Post by: amazingturtles
 Phydox wrote:So the codices and supplements will be discontinued after 7th.
Where do all the 30k books fit into all this? Has that been mentioned yet? Are they stopping the 30k series?
The faq says this:
**A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.
So... there's that
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Post by: ERJAK
Phydox wrote:So the codices and supplements will be discontinued after 7th.
Where do all the 30k books fit into all this? Has that been mentioned yet? Are they stopping the 30k series?
If you bothered to read either the FAQ or the last 24 pages of this thread you'd already know that they said 'no changes to 30k as of yet'.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
spiralingcadaver wrote:Personally, I'm not buying anything and will be painting things I've built rather than assembling new characters, between now and the new edition drop.
Pretty much the same here. I have a Terminator squad and some Custodes built and base coated that I'll be finishing off. Once there done the only 40/30k stuff I'm gonna touch until 8th is terrain.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Lucky they just released a load of terrain then... almost like it was the plan! Noooo, couldn't be ;-)
4543
Post by: Phydox
ERJAK wrote: Phydox wrote:So the codices and supplements will be discontinued after 7th.
Where do all the 30k books fit into all this? Has that been mentioned yet? Are they stopping the 30k series?
If you bothered to read either the FAQ or the last 24 pages of this thread you'd already know that they said 'no changes to 30k as of yet'.
I started reading the 25 pages but got tired of seeing this kind of rude response to someones question.
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Post by: Dr._Jim_J_Jimmy
Phydox wrote:ERJAK wrote: Phydox wrote:So the codices and supplements will be discontinued after 7th.
Where do all the 30k books fit into all this? Has that been mentioned yet? Are they stopping the 30k series?
If you bothered to read either the FAQ or the last 24 pages of this thread you'd already know that they said 'no changes to 30k as of yet'.
I started reading the 25 pages but got tired of seeing this kind of rude response to someones question.
Not sure what rude responses have to do with reading the website.
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Post by: Azreal13
Yeah, I'd forgive not wanting to read through 24 pages. Not bothering to read the document and other material that prompted the creation of the thread however...
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Azreal13 wrote:Yeah, I'd forgive not wanting to read through 24 pages. Not bothering to read the document and other material that prompted the creation of the thread however...
While true, the offense of not reading the website doesn't exactly mandate someone being a bit snippy.
All Erjak had to do was say "They answered this question in the FAQ" and it would be a nonissue.
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Post by: usernamesareannoying
Have they mentioned if this is going to impact 30k at all?
98515
Post by: Lord Kragan
Not for the time being. We will see what they'll do.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
 JohnnyHell wrote:Lucky they just released a load of terrain then... almost like it was the plan! Noooo, couldn't be ;-)
Yeah that did cross my mind and there's probably some truth to it. Announcing a new edition this far in advance with changes substantial enough to invalidate the existing codex books helps to builds hype but its gonna cause a drop in sales. Releasing some really nice terrain kits in the waiting period could help to soften the blow to there sales somewhat.
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Post by: Lorek
There's still a LOT of people who are talking about things OTHER than the upcoming version of Warhammer 40k. I've been handing out warnings like candy.
If this doesn't stop, we'll lock the thread and deal with individual offenders.
And those of you on high horses, this is a game of toy soldiers. Save it for the OT Forum.
-=Edit=- I just worked through about ten moderator alerts. I assure you, we are keeping an eye on this thread and dealing with posts privately.
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Post by: Crablezworth
Well this all sounds pretty terrible. Glad we have geedub's permission for the time being to keep playing 30k until they can get around to dousing that in gasoline.
It must feel great to have just picked up the deathwatch or genestealer cults or traitor legions books.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kodos wrote:Orthon wrote:
Bye, Battle Company with hundreds of free points of transports. Compound that with grav spam.
Bye, ridiculously OP Eldar codex.
Bye, OP Tau codex.
Bye, OP Daemon codex and Grimoire Tzeentch rerollable 2++ save shenanigans.
you really think that bad balancing and "we write rules because they sound cool" is gone?
Exactly, it's as if some forget that the very people responsible for the bloat and neglect of the ruleset are the ones in charge of raising this new edition. At this point 30k is all I got left and if jervis and the rest of the bien pasant come for that, oh boy, I'll be a hot little potatoe.
Maybe this new edition will have terrain rules lol... it won't
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Post by: LightKing
has anyone seen this, this is supposedly the new galactic map for 8th edition
but i don't see it mentioned anywhere else?
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Post by: Azreal13
Try going back a few pages?
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Post by: Crablezworth
Couple pages back it's posted.
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Post by: LightKing
So if were going Interstellar now with this new map
new races? new xeno scum
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Post by: Azreal13
Interstellar? What?
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Post by: LightKing
" There will be more on this new interstellar feature in the coming days."
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Post by: Azreal13
It's a map of the galaxy, they're being (sort of) funny. Don't get excited.
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Post by: Gamgee
Looks like Chaos canonically won the Jericho Reach. It's the sector of space located by the Hadex Anomaly.
Is it just me or did the Tau Empire grow a lot? Usually it's depicted as a dot and not with a defined territorial area. Or they could just be defining its borders better and its the same size.
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Post by: Cerebrate64
Looks like the rumors for a June release is probably correct then.
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Post by: Quickjager
 Gamgee wrote:Looks like Chaos canonically won the Jericho Reach. It's the sector of space located by the Hadex Anomaly.
Is it just me or did the Tau Empire grow a lot? Usually it's depicted as a dot and not with a defined territorial area. Or they could just be defining its borders better and its the same size.
I wouldn't count Jericho out yet, it's GW afterall, moving it a few hundred billion lightyears to the south isn't above them, especially seeing as this map IS different in scale and placement of other planets.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
Gamgee wrote:Looks like Chaos canonically won the Jericho Reach. It's the sector of space located by the Hadex Anomaly.
Is it just me or did the Tau Empire grow a lot? Usually it's depicted as a dot and not with a defined territorial area. Or they could just be defining its borders better and its the same size.
It's still quite small, the hexagon that defines the Empire is smaller than the entirety of the Ultramarines' domain.
Also surrounded by Necrons on one side and by a giant Warp Rift on another... things aren't looking too crash hot for the Tau.
They might actually have to fight for real now.
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Post by: Breotan
So, the black hole at the center of the galaxy is in the warp now?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
LightKing wrote:So if were going Interstellar now with this new map
new races? new xeno scum
You know what interstellar means, right?
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Post by: GodDamUser
Is it just me or has there been a fair amount of reshuffling with this new map?
Baal seems to have moved North, Eye of Terra use to be more to the West.. Tau moved South East..
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Post by: davou
 Quickjager wrote: Gamgee wrote:Looks like Chaos canonically won the Jericho Reach. It's the sector of space located by the Hadex Anomaly.
Is it just me or did the Tau Empire grow a lot? Usually it's depicted as a dot and not with a defined territorial area. Or they could just be defining its borders better and its the same size.
I wouldn't count Jericho out yet, it's GW afterall, moving it a few hundred billion lightyears to the south isn't above them, especially seeing as this map IS different in scale and placement of other planets.
a hundred billion light years is a bit too far
It is estimated that the diameter of the observable universe is about 28.5 gigaparsecs (93 billion light-years, 8.8×1023 kilometres or 5.5×1023 miles), putting the edge of the observable universe at about 46.5 billion light-years away.
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Post by: Gamgee
 Matt.Kingsley wrote: Gamgee wrote:Looks like Chaos canonically won the Jericho Reach. It's the sector of space located by the Hadex Anomaly.
Is it just me or did the Tau Empire grow a lot? Usually it's depicted as a dot and not with a defined territorial area. Or they could just be defining its borders better and its the same size.
It's still quite small, the hexagon that defines the Empire is smaller than the entirety of the Ultramarines' domain.
Also surrounded by Necrons on one side and by a giant Warp Rift on another... things aren't looking too crash hot for the Tau.
They might actually have to fight for real now.
It is still small, but far bigger looking than it used to look. Back in the day it used to be so small most maps would zoom in and show a little sub map just to show how small they were. Now they get an actual spot on the main map. Neat. Also the latest lore from the GS books (forget which one probably 3) is that the Tau and IoM near the damocles were being attacked by weird warp worms and an entire Tau fleet vanished and/or destroyed.
Could we be seeing a chaos Tau release? Could be interesting.
I and many others have suspected for awhile now the only candidates for a grand alliance with Tau are Tau-crons. The Eldar didn't want the Tau's help for being too young, and they never even considered Necrons. So unless a new Ork Freeboss gets real chummy with the Tau the only GA I could see would be Tau-Cron. Perhaps Tau was supposed to be swallowed but the Necrons have made pylons to save them? It's an interesting development at any rate.
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Post by: ZebioLizard2
Gamgee wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote: Gamgee wrote:Looks like Chaos canonically won the Jericho Reach. It's the sector of space located by the Hadex Anomaly.
Is it just me or did the Tau Empire grow a lot? Usually it's depicted as a dot and not with a defined territorial area. Or they could just be defining its borders better and its the same size.
It's still quite small, the hexagon that defines the Empire is smaller than the entirety of the Ultramarines' domain.
Also surrounded by Necrons on one side and by a giant Warp Rift on another... things aren't looking too crash hot for the Tau.
They might actually have to fight for real now.
It is still small, but far bigger looking than it used to look. Back in the day it used to be so small most maps would zoom in and show a little sub map just to show how small they were. Now they get an actual spot on the main map. Neat. Also the latest lore from the GS books (forget which one probably 3) is that the Tau and IoM near the damocles were being attacked by weird warp worms and an entire Tau fleet vanished and/or destroyed.
Could we be seeing a chaos Tau release? Could be interesting.
I and many others have suspected for awhile now the only candidates for a grand alliance with Tau are Tau-crons. The Eldar didn't want the Tau's help for being too young, and they never even considered Necrons. So unless a new Ork Freeboss gets real chummy with the Tau the only GA I could see would be Tau-Cron. Perhaps Tau was supposed to be swallowed but the Necrons have made pylons to save them? It's an interesting development at any rate.
Chaos welcomes it's new mutated brethren!
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Post by: GodDamUser
Gamgee wrote: The Eldar didn't want the Tau's help for being too young, and they never even considered Necrons.
The Eldar would never think of allying up with the Crons.. too many old wounds there
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Post by: Gamgee
Actually I seen someone on ATT make a custom feral "Moant'au" model and it looked pretty sweet. If they made one and depending on how they looked I might get some to pit against my FSE army.
Edit
I know they wouldn't, but when it comes to saving the galaxy you would have thought chaos was the bigger threat, but they thought releasing a god of death was a good idea. So you know. Eldar science and thought died a long time ago.
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Post by: yellowfever
I've only read the last 3 pages and this has got to contain the most rude comments I've seen in awhile. Even maybe beating the US politics thread(which must have set a record for being closed). People in here seem to be very pissy about this topic.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Hey look, the Calixis Sector is there!
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Post by: GodDamUser
I did see that.. I didn't remember it being described at to the West though..
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Post by: Youn
Very very interesting......
Edited: as image link was dead.
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Post by: angel of death 007
 Formosa wrote:Minijack wrote: Formosa wrote: Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote:'Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.'
So, it's definately going down the Sigmar route? Ok then
which isnt a bad thing.
At the moment we have
A: Unbound, which is basically open play with points
B: Campaigns, which is campaign play with points
C: points play, which is non points play with points.
SO whats actually changing there, not much yet, we shall have to see.
Except that the old codex`s are no longer compatible with the new rules.
Utterly irrelevant, i still own the old books and have pdfs etc. if/when this new ED sucks, i will carry on regardless.
Look people, dont fall into the hyperbole and overreact, the same happens every ED, if you dont like it, dont play it and carry on with the current ED.
Current edition 6.5 sucked that is why it got flushed, what they should have done after the massive failure that was 6th edition in the first place. Glad to see GW is getting away from book club of the month and going toward actual models. Every one else posts free rules and no codexes glad GW could catch up. And they finally realized after how many years that people like to go to competitions and more balanced ones at that. Hopefully we can see an edition that mirrors closer to 5th which IMHO was the best edition to play both in pick up games and tournaments.
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Post by: Frozen Ocean
 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:Thebiggesthat wrote:As someone with a physics degree, masters ongoing, a job based on software test and statistical analysis, please take that chip on your shoulder Whirlwind and insert it somewhere painful. It's absolutely nothing to do with intelligence and background. Although I'm glad it doesn't appeal to you, as you seem like a conceited ass and I can imagine nothing worse than bumping into you in a tournament.
Wow, I hope the air is breathable up there.... in fact YOU sound like the kind of person I would never want to run into anywhere. When you meet a stranger do you tell him all this stuff also? Do you start off your conversation with where you went to school and what degrees you have? Do you point out all the madeupism's also in all science fiction that just couldn't exist in 'Real Physics and Science'?
You should read the post that Thebiggesthat is replying to. Specifically this rather hilarious tidbit (about how people who think AoS isn't tactical are just educated wrong):
Whirlwind wrote:The problem is that it's relative based on the user which is dependent on background, education levels, what the individual skills are and so on. Therefore you are never going to get a straight answer on this one. Depending on how an individuals brain works something that might be tactical to one person is hell for another. What might be tactical for one person might be completely obvious to another. This is probably where the differences lie. A brain wired to understand statistics might not really see the challenge in AoS because for that person they see the synergies easily, hence more complex linking rules will interest that brain more because the statistical permutations are much greater. On the other hand a brain that sees distances easily might not find a game based on this type of strategy interesting because to that person it is obvious, hence it will be more interesting to have games based on numbers (and hence dice rolling) because it is less obvious and challenges them intellectually more.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
Gamgee wrote:I know they wouldn't, but when it comes to saving the galaxy you would have thought chaos was the bigger threat, but they thought releasing a god of death was a good idea. So you know. Eldar science and thought died a long time ago.
The Eldar were also specifically created by the Old Ones to help fight and defeat the Necrons during the War in Heaven... sure most Craftworlds and the Dark Eldar don't give a toss about actually seeking them out but old wounds cut deep.
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Post by: GodDamUser
Matt.Kingsley wrote:The Eldar were also specifically created by the Old Ones to help fight and defeat the Necrons during the War in Heaven... sure most Craftworlds and the Dark Eldar don't give a toss about actually seeking them out but old wounds cut deep.
The Eldar were uplifted not created..
Orks were created
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Post by: davou
whatever you tried to link is dead
24409
Post by: Matt.Kingsley
GodDamUser wrote: Matt.Kingsley wrote:The Eldar were also specifically created by the Old Ones to help fight and defeat the Necrons during the War in Heaven... sure most Craftworlds and the Dark Eldar don't give a toss about actually seeking them out but old wounds cut deep.
The Eldar were uplifted not created..
Orks were created
The background clearly states that the Eldar were one of the Warrior-Races created.
Furthermore in the Oldcron fluff (since the Newcron fluff doesn't mention it or the Orks at all when it talks about the Warrior-Races) what could be the Ork's evolutionary ancestor race - the 'Krork' - was created. It never specifically mention the Orks being created by the Old Ones for the War in Heaven (though Krork could just be what the Old One's originally called them).
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Post by: ncshooter426
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
GodDamUser wrote:I did see that.. I didn't remember it being described at to the West though..
Far west. Otherside of the Scarus Sector. The Koronus Expanse leads into the Halo Stars.
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Post by: GodDamUser
I also do love that Angelis is still on the map =D
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Post by: LightKing
a split empire?
isn't that similar to what the nova-terra interregnum was?
44272
Post by: Azreal13
No.
A civil war in no way resembles a literal physical divide in two.
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Post by: Lobokai
Notice that there is an "East" and "West" passage to cross between the north and the south... but you that will be our new Cadian gates... bloody warzones... one for Terra to keep open and the other for Macragge,
Edit: Dang Az, I'm sure I've said it before, but we joined on the same day... huh. Sry, moving along...
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Shadow War: Gorkamorka confirmed!
95100
Post by: GodDamUser
90954
Post by: Torga_DW
So, a new edition of 40k and a significant revamp of the rules at that. Interesting. If they finally manage to create a passable set of rules (and that's a big if given their track record of doing things) i'd certainly look at coming back again.
But as always, gw likes to put barriers up and the notable one now is these new marines - no point collecting anything ba related until i find out how this plays out.
I'd certainly like to start playing 40k again, will be watching to see how this turns out. Cautiously pessimistic, but would like to be wrong here.
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Post by: cuda1179
Man, the tau really do have it rough. Ultramar on their doorstep, bordering a Necron dynasty, Orks on the loose, Tryanids creeping in, warp storm near them. Man, they are boxed in on all sides. Also, they are near the edge of the galaxy, so unless they want to go intergalactic they really don't have anywhere to go but through the crap.
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Post by: xttz
 cuda1179 wrote:Man, the tau really do have it rough. Ultramar on their doorstep, bordering a Necron dynasty, Orks on the loose, Tryanids creeping in, warp storm near them. Man, they are boxed in on all sides.
Nice. Death to animes.
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Post by: Not-not-kenny
Now I remember what the map reminds me of! In an episode of Star Trek: the animated series they go to a parallel universe where time goes backwards and space is white and the stars are black.
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Post by: Captain Azrael
This new map is interesting. The Imperium Nihlus above the warp storm line that divides the galaxy hints that Terra and rest of the Imperium probably lost all communication with that part of the galaxy ( since warp storms also cut all communication between worlds ). So yeah... Blood Angels are in deep... good thing they have almost all of their successor Chapters with them.
One more thing I noticed - Eye of Terror grew to a large proportion as well. With that said and seen now can we assume that Iron Hands lost their homesystem and became fleet based Chapter now?
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Post by: Souleater
 Captain Azrael wrote:
One more thing I noticed - Eye of Terror grew to a large proportion as well. With that said and seen now can we assume that Iron Hands lost their homesystem and became fleet based Chapter now?
It is possible that their homeworld has been shuffled around a little. Several other locations have been moved a bit.
I am hopeful and excited by this new rule set.
And for once I am in a quandary about the (rumoured) Nurgle vs SM starter set. Tempted to keep those cheeky Nurgle boys to seed a new Black Legion force!
Also wondering if I can build a fluffy Aeldari army? And can I justifyNuMarines in my ''only starter set models'' Lamented force??
Following this with great interest! I have certainly stopped stock piling models for Other Games while saving for this.
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Post by: Captain Azrael
It's kind of hard to shuffle a system you have been stating that it's so close to the Eye of Terror that V'th planet of the system was lost to it some time ago ( Medusa Campaign ).
Only if GW decided to change that and declare entire campaign non-canon. But I doubt they will do that.
edit: I also noticed that Rock is literally next to the Prospero.
Future Campaign anyone?
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Post by: Pacific
 Thud wrote:The level of self-awareness in that FAQ is pretty impressive.
I'm quite optimistic.
Me too. This kind of post would have been absolutely unthinkable a couple of years ago, in fact there wouldn't have been any post at all.
Definitely feels like a change of character by GW in terms of how it engages with fans, and I think 100% improvement for the better.
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Post by: Thargrim
In theory nurgle is great for a new starter kit, because they won't excessively challenge someone new to the hobby. Just paint them green/brown and slap washes/rust colors and stuff and base and you're done. Don't have to be neat about it either since Nurgle stuff tends to look messed up anyways.
To this day i've still never been able to get into 40k because I can't stand the bloated ruleset. I'll be watching this carefully, but I feel like they still might not dumb it down enough for me..lol. I can play Blood Bowl, X wing, SW armada etc but 40k...just loses me. Maybe I just do better with boardgames as opposed to true tabletop wargaming.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Captain Azrael wrote:One more thing I noticed - Eye of Terror grew to a large proportion as well. With that said and seen now can we assume that Iron Hands lost their homesystem and became fleet based Chapter now?
I'm sure Yodrin will be thrilled at that!
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Post by: Yodhrin
 H.B.M.C. wrote: Captain Azrael wrote:One more thing I noticed - Eye of Terror grew to a large proportion as well. With that said and seen now can we assume that Iron Hands lost their homesystem and became fleet based Chapter now?
I'm sure Yodrin will be thrilled at that!
Oh yes, ecstatic
Eh, frankly I've found it hard to give a gak about the Iron Hands since GW neutered them and turned them into BEEP-BOOP That is illogical, Jim Codex-adherent robo-Vulcans, but hey, I can't wait to see which other factions and characters and locations I like have been blown up or changed beyond all recognition. Yay, storyline advancement!
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Post by: Eldarain
H.B.M.C. wrote: Captain Azrael wrote:One more thing I noticed - Eye of Terror grew to a large proportion as well. With that said and seen now can we assume that Iron Hands lost their homesystem and became fleet based Chapter now?
I'm sure Yodrin will be thrilled at that!
A quick summation of his feelings and we'll quickly move on I'm sure.
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Post by: thenewgozoku
Where are the eldars on that map?
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Post by: BrianDavion
retreated into the webway perhaps?
88261
Post by: thenewgozoku
Those ork waaaghs need names!
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Post by: Azazelx
 Yodhrin wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote: Captain Azrael wrote:One more thing I noticed - Eye of Terror grew to a large proportion as well. With that said and seen now can we assume that Iron Hands lost their homesystem and became fleet based Chapter now?
I'm sure Yodrin will be thrilled at that!
Oh yes, ecstatic
Eh, frankly I've found it hard to give a gak about the Iron Hands since GW neutered them and turned them into BEEP-BOOP That is illogical, Jim Codex-adherent robo-Vulcans, but hey, I can't wait to see which other factions and characters and locations I like have been blown up or changed beyond all recognition. Yay, storyline advancement!
Did you ever see Highlander II?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yodhrin wrote:I can't wait to see which other factions and characters and locations I like have been blown up or changed beyond all recognition. Yay, storyline advancement!
Nonsense Yod. That'd never happen. Plus there are no tanks in Baghdad.
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Post by: Scrub
Anyone else see GW's latest email concerning the codecies they acknowledge will be outdated? Selling at full price no less...
"This is your last chance" Too right you cheeky fethers!
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Post by: Ruin
 Scrub wrote:Anyone else see GW's latest email concerning the codecies they acknowledge will be outdated? Selling at full price no less...
"This is your last chance" Too right you cheeky fethers!
I have not.
Are they doing some form of reimbursement like they've done in the past (last time they did this certainly was with 6th-7th ed. WHFB) where if you bought the old starter box after a certain date you got X amount off of the next edition's rulebook?
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Post by: JohnnyHell
I mean, you could ask for a discount on a free rulebook, but... ;-)
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Post by: Ruin
Ah, yes... forgot about that.
That was just the example. Maybe in this case it would be the starter box.
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Post by: Wulfmar
Ruin wrote:
Ah, yes... forgot about that.
That was just the example. Maybe in this case it would be the starter box.
I believe you'd be very lucky. I'd purchased the Big Rule Book for 7th about 2, maybe 3 months before they scrapped it and released the edited 7.1. GW flat-out refused to reimburse even though the shop had said it'll be current for a few years. I stopped playing after that.
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Post by: ChrisB
To be fair, it does say they won't be compatible:
Edit: The Dark Eldar one went out of stock over a week ago.
26519
Post by: xttz
Laffo - I can't believe they're not at least discounting the codexes. I remember picking up a pile of 2E ones for less than a tenner just before the shift to 3E.
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Post by: zedmeister
Forgeworld doing the same   Bundles are discounted. Individual books aren't
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Post by: Ruin
 Wulfmar wrote:Ruin wrote:
Ah, yes... forgot about that.
That was just the example. Maybe in this case it would be the starter box.
I believe you'd be very lucky. I'd purchased the Big Rule Book for 7th about 2, maybe 3 months before they scrapped it and released the edited 7.1. GW flat-out refused to reimburse even though the shop had said it'll be current for a few years. I stopped playing after that.
Sorry, I didn't mean from a customer service standpoint. Back when, GW used to put big yellow stickers on the rulebooks/2 player boxes when a new edition was imminent saying just that and if you bought them in that time period and brought your receipt back into the store on release of the new edition you would get money off the new rulebook.
The last time they certainly did this was the switch between 6th-7th ed WHFB, I cannot remember them doing this recently, but you never know with NuGW...
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Post by: thenewgozoku
So IA books are going to fade too? So GW and FW are on the same page this time. Interesting.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Scrub wrote:Anyone else see GW's latest email concerning the codecies they acknowledge will be outdated? Selling at full price no less...
"This is your last chance" Too right you cheeky @#$%ers!
Last chance till you can get them for pennies on ebay that is Automatically Appended Next Post: Ruin wrote:
I have not.
Are they doing some form of reimbursement like they've done in the past (last time they did this certainly was with 6th-7th ed. WHFB) where if you bought the old starter box after a certain date you got X amount off of the next edition's rulebook?
I heard if you have ever bought any codex from an edition you can get the new core rules for free.
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Post by: thenewgozoku
They opened an "ask a question post" on FB community site
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Post by: Verviedi
 thenewgozoku wrote:So IA books are going to fade too? So GW and FW are on the same page this time. Interesting.
Oh-
 Automatically Appended Next Post: Link, please.
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Post by: thenewgozoku
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Post by: BrianDavion
Thud wrote:The level of self-awareness in that FAQ is pretty impressive.
I'm quite optimistic.
Agreed. it seems minor, but the tone of the FAQ is more what you'd expect from members of the community, then "corp speak" which is good as it suggests the right people are in charge of communications
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Post by: Verviedi
Right, asking questions now. I will resist the urge to ask about Fires of Cyraxus.
Edit: Nope, couldn't do it.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
My question is quite tame - will the Adeptus Mechanicus be rolled up into a single army?
Would make my life so much easier!
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Post by: thenewgozoku
Ad mech is one faction on the new site
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Post by: Verviedi
That's one of the questions I asked. Could some brave, benevolent soul help transcribe all the questions and answers here? I'd do it, but I forgot my headphones, and I don't think they use subtitles. If the video can be watched later, I'll do it for youse, but if not, please be nice <3
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Post by: zamerion
I asked if attributes will be the same style as now, or if they will change to AoS style.
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Post by: Humble Guardsman
 Pacific wrote: Thud wrote:The level of self-awareness in that FAQ is pretty impressive.
I'm quite optimistic.
Me too. This kind of post would have been absolutely unthinkable a couple of years ago, in fact there wouldn't have been any post at all.
Definitely feels like a change of character by GW in terms of how it engages with fans, and I think 100% improvement for the better.
I agree. An attitude like this FAQ demonstrates has given me that most dangerous of things... Hope.
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Post by: loki old fart
maybe I'm reading this wrong, but points only in matched play.?
Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play - one of three ways to play
covered in the rulebook.
What do you mean “3 ways to play”?
We realise that people like to play Warhammer 40,000 in different ways. 3 broad systems are
covered in the new edition:
1) Open play is the most flexible, and easiest to get started with,
allowing you to use any miniatures you like. So unbound with no point restrictions ?
2) Narrative play is where you can refight the iconic
battles of the 41st Millennium, or create your own campaigns and sagas. Themed massed battle no points.?
3) Matched play is designed for more balanced and competitive games, ideal for gaming clubs, leagues and
tournaments. However you want to enjoy playing Warhammer 40,000, there will be rules for that. Points to allow for pick up games.?
Is that the gist of it ?
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Post by: kodos
because of the success in AoS, we get Unbound without points, Scenarios without points and standard games with points
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
Yeah, that's how it works in AoS, more or less. No one generally plays outside of Matched Play.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Pretty much.
Though Narrative Play also allows for 'set force' historical re-fights.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The points are also 'blocked' in AoS.
So you start with say, 5 Ironjaw Brutes, and they cost you X points. Their upgrades are free. If you want to expand the unit, it's their X cost again for up to 5.
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Post by: Slinky
Much like LOTR as well - The scenarios mostly have set forces for both sides, or for tournament/general matchup play there are points for everything and a set of battle types...
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Post by: biggie_reg
You could already play in those ways before, it's not like GW was hammering down on people not using completely matched points. And people can make their own decisions. You know, like adults. I appreciate that they put it out so people aren't scared off by "complexity" but it wasn't necessary.
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Post by: Jammer87
You can use points in all of them if you want to. Ultimately you decide how you want to play and what is legal in open play.
But a space marine/imperial guard/SoB force holding off hordes of tyranids/orks/necrons shouldn't be equal in points.
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Post by: kodos
 biggie_reg wrote:You could already play in those ways before, it's not like GW was hammering down on people not using completely matched points. And people can make their own decisions. You know, like adults. I appreciate that they put it out so people aren't scared off by "complexity" but it wasn't necessary.
Jjohnso11 wrote:You can use points in all of them if you want to. Ultimately you decide how you want to play and what is legal in open play.
Heresy!
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Post by: Kroem
Though Narrative Play also allows for 'set force' historical re-fights.
Yea that could be very cool, 'historical battles' which you could play again and again.
I can also see a possibilities for more free form, narrative battles.
Say a scenario Tallarn Desert Raiders armoured column punches through Ork lines to capture a set of objectives.
1. I can ignore any force org or points and assemble a convincing representation of an armoured column and Ork defence force appropriate for the scenario.
2. I can have really weird deployment zones to represent the scenario, say the initial Ork defence force can only deploy packed in the two forts that are the objectives, or that Ork relief forces come on behind the Imperials to represent
forces racing back from the front lines.
3. I can have asymmetrical victory conditions. Say I make the Tallarn force much larger than the Orks. The Imperials would win a major victory if they capture both objectives by turn 3 or a minor victory if they do it by turn 5.
The Orks only win if they delay the Imperials sufficiently.
4. I can tie lots of scenarios together, say a minor victory leads to the Imperials digging in or a major victory see them crashing into the Orks rear echelons. I can also put in things like a optional space marine reserve deployed by drop pod. Whether this reserve is used or not could affect the narrative in different ways and effect future campaign scenarios.
Now I know I can do all this now, but I think having the narrative way of playing official endorsed and enshrined in the BRB will encourage people to play and create these scenarios far more frequently.
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Post by: Ragnar69
Hehe! You should visit the SHOP section on the new website. Really cute pics
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Post by: timetowaste85
You know, I'm actually curious. With all the positive changes, with MOST people being happier with GW in the recent bit of time since Rountree took over, with AoS coming into its own, with the hype train being real and active, and 8th being announced and being listed as having game styles similar to AoS and everything else, sales up, communication, better "deals" by buying bulk boxes...do you think Kirby is actually looking bad and going "crap; why didn't I do that?" Under Rountree, GW has made massive changes. Is every change we want right on the table? No, not quite. A lot of boxes are still costly. But free base rules is one of the last holdouts for 40k. Most people are happy. If you aren't happy, well, you are of course free to not be. But I think it's safe to say the naysayers are in the minority now. GW has stepped its game up. There are still bummer moments. I've had like 2-3 opportunities to buy SWA and skipped cuz no daemons. Even SoB got rules. I'm bummed. But I'm a minority there. It's okay. They can't please 100% of us 100% of the time. I'm looking forward to 8th. I run a screamer-star. And I'm content to watch it go away while things like wraith decurians and wraithknights and stuff also become manageable. Bring on 8th!!
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Kirby didn't give a flying feth when he was CEO, why would he now
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Post by: Skinnereal
Ragnar69 wrote:Hehe! You should visit the SHOP section on the new website. Really cute pics
https://warhammer40000.com/shop/
"Your order is
INCOMING!"
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 Kroem wrote:Though Narrative Play also allows for 'set force' historical re-fights.
Yea that could be very cool, 'historical battles' which you could play again and again.
I can also see a possibilities for more free form, narrative battles.
Say a scenario Tallarn Desert Raiders armoured column punches through Ork lines to capture a set of objectives.
1. I can ignore any force org or points and assemble a convincing representation of an armoured column and Ork defence force appropriate for the scenario.
2. I can have really weird deployment zones to represent the scenario, say the initial Ork defence force can only deploy packed in the two forts that are the objectives, or that Ork relief forces come on behind the Imperials to represent
forces racing back from the front lines.
3. I can have asymmetrical victory conditions. Say I make the Tallarn force much larger than the Orks. The Imperials would win a major victory if they capture both objectives by turn 3 or a minor victory if they do it by turn 5.
The Orks only win if they delay the Imperials sufficiently.
4. I can tie lots of scenarios together, say a minor victory leads to the Imperials digging in or a major victory see them crashing into the Orks rear echelons. I can also put in things like a optional space marine reserve deployed by drop pod. Whether this reserve is used or not could affect the narrative in different ways and effect future campaign scenarios.
Now I know I can do all this now, but I think having the narrative way of playing official endorsed and enshrined in the BRB will encourage people to play and create these scenarios far more frequently.
Yup.
Asymmetrical victory conditions are fun. If one side is meant to be horribly outnumbered, their success is down to the type of damage they inflict. Take out all the enemy transports? Perhaps a narrow victory. Take out all their HQ? Major victory - whereas the larger side needs to take and hold objectives.
AoS started off with similar, thanks to Sudden Death. Sure, it wasn't especially popular, but it did make for some interesting games, especially as the outnumbered player got to choose the condition.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Making scenarios was pretty much all we did in our teens. It's awesome fun.
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Post by: amazingturtles
 MasterSlowPoke wrote:Yeah, that's how it works in AoS, more or less. No one generally plays outside of Matched Play.
I do! it's more fun than people give it credit for. Especially with scenarios as people are talking about.
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Post by: loki old fart
I take it wrath of magnus and curse of the wulfen or worthless now
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Post by: Kanluwen
Fluff is still valid, just the rules portion isn't.
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Post by: kronk
The fluff is not.
The scenarios aren't necessarily.
The rules/points? Probably.
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Post by: MaxT
The rules in them are not valid for 8th edition. The background, art images and everything else in the books are still perfectly valid, as are the rules for games of 7th.
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Post by: AllSeeingSkink
JohnnyHell wrote:Making scenarios was pretty much all we did in our teens. It's awesome fun.
Yeah, I could invent scenarios as a 12 year old, asymmetric forces, asymmetric victory conditions, that's why I never seem to understand why people are enthused by a game telling you how to create narrative games and whatnot.... the hard thing is creating BALANCED games, anyone can create narrative ones with or without a book telling us what to do.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
The rules - yeah once 8th is released.
The fluff - it depends if you care about it or not and the level of enjoyment you get out of re-reading it.
On the brightside at least CotW had a longer shelf life than the first Imperial Knights codex .
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Post by: Lithlandis Stormcrow
Hm... I like the attitude change.
Let's see about those rules, then - those will be the true dealbreakers.
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Post by: davou
I don't see anything wrong with no points scenarios; it works really well in STAW!
Certain missions (kabayashi Maru) hav eyou playing against a set table using something vastly outmatched where a buddy takes up the riengs of the NPC and you gotta try to win. Its basically beer and pretzels and you get to brag about having beat it afterwards.
The same could go for 40.... A wildly outnumbered SM company recreating the tyranic invasion of maccgragre, or the istavan dropsite massacre. Or a battle trying to keep demons from flooding a webway.
Just because points are optional sometimes does not mean it has to go bad, it could be you and four buddies taking turns at beating a 'challenge' while you get drunk.
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Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Yeah, that's how it works in AoS, more or less. No one generally plays outside of Matched Play.
I think the people who would create an account and post on the internet probably skew those numbers a bit. It is quite possible their are more players that play out side of Matched Play or who would want to. They just play super casual and aren't the type to talk with others about their hobby over the internet. They are also probably the sort that don't play at stores/clubs so they come off rather invisible. I don't know if their is enough of them to have GW bother with rules though.
I know I am getting there where I would much rather have a well tested campaign book with the army lists predefined for both sides (as long as it doesn't involve crazy model purchases) with a rough description of how to setup the table rather than build my own list. I am also not opposed to playing games without using points. Heck, when I play my buddy who just uses my collection some games we sometimes basically just grab some stuff that looks about even. Because outside skirmish games, he is not going to build an army list, and I don't like trying to figure out what stuff he want is his list all the time.
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Post by: Necros
I will miss all of the Codexes but at the same time I feel there were just too many. Like, Ad Mech didn't need to be 2 different books. And that's just 1 of many examples.
I haven't read all the details, so I don't know all that's coming, but would I'd love is free rules and warscrolls (or whatever the 40k word for them will be) for every unit in the game as downloadable PDFs. And separately a small printed "just the rules" book, and nice glossy printed warscrolls on cards that you can buy separately if you want.
And then as far as books go, they should be fluffier things that are more about special stories and campaigns and missions and stuff, rather than where they store all of the rules and stats that become obsolete as soon as the next errata is published.
I'd also love to see unit cards included with models.. they included warscrolls with AOS models, but they're just added on as an extra page in the model building instructions and just don't look as nice as a color unit card would be.. and if they're printing them in the thousands, the cost of said cards really isn't much...
I guess what I'm saying is I like cards.
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Post by: loki old fart
I know we've been promised rules for all the factions.
But any guesses on who'll be the first to get the brettonian treatment.
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Post by: jreilly89
This looks really interesting, but I'll wait to see how it actually performs in testing.
What does everyone else think so far? Is this really a new 8th edition or is this more like 7.75? Automatically Appended Next Post:  loki old fart wrote:I know we've been promised rules for all the factions.
But any guesses on who'll be the first to get the brettonian treatment.
Tough to say. Maybe Orks or Guard because they're the one with the oldest release? Eldar/DEldar should be good with Ynnari, Nidz and GSC should be okay, Tau, Daemons, and SM just got a bunch of new rules and kits, same with Ad Mech.
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Post by: Seneca
loki old fart wrote:I know we've been promised rules for all the factions.
But any guesses on who'll be the first to get the brettonian treatment.
I know, no one! Maybe because all the current factions are advertised on the new warhammer40000 page?
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Post by: Requizen
Kroem wrote:Though Narrative Play also allows for 'set force' historical re-fights.
Yea that could be very cool, 'historical battles' which you could play again and again.
I can also see a possibilities for more free form, narrative battles.
Say a scenario Tallarn Desert Raiders armoured column punches through Ork lines to capture a set of objectives.
1. I can ignore any force org or points and assemble a convincing representation of an armoured column and Ork defence force appropriate for the scenario.
2. I can have really weird deployment zones to represent the scenario, say the initial Ork defence force can only deploy packed in the two forts that are the objectives, or that Ork relief forces come on behind the Imperials to represent
forces racing back from the front lines.
3. I can have asymmetrical victory conditions. Say I make the Tallarn force much larger than the Orks. The Imperials would win a major victory if they capture both objectives by turn 3 or a minor victory if they do it by turn 5.
The Orks only win if they delay the Imperials sufficiently.
4. I can tie lots of scenarios together, say a minor victory leads to the Imperials digging in or a major victory see them crashing into the Orks rear echelons. I can also put in things like a optional space marine reserve deployed by drop pod. Whether this reserve is used or not could affect the narrative in different ways and effect future campaign scenarios.
Now I know I can do all this now, but I think having the narrative way of playing official endorsed and enshrined in the BRB will encourage people to play and create these scenarios far more frequently.
Pretty much every AoS book - from campaign books, to the General's Handbook, to army-specific Codices - comes with Narrative Battleplans to represent historical battles or a thematic fight that fits the army in question. The new Kharadron Overlords book has a cool one where half their army is trapped at a crash zone, and the other half has to break through enemy lines with their airships to rescue them.
I'd love to see similar stuff for 40k armies. A Necron one where you have to defend 3 entrances to a Tomb World? An Eldar one where you have to race to reclaim artifacts? A GSC one where you have to hold out and summon a Hive Fleet? Could be super fun.
While Matched is what everyone is used to, Open is really good for getting new players in (each person just buys a few boxes or a Start Collecting and doesn't worry about about points/lists), and Narrative is great if you have some friends that enjoy the lore or want to do something different.
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Post by: EmberlordofFire8
I just realised I need to buy the 7th ed Eldar codex so I can play 30k with them.
Anyone want to donate their codex?
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Post by: loki old fart
 Seneca wrote: loki old fart wrote:I know we've been promised rules for all the factions.
But any guesses on who'll be the first to get the brettonian treatment.
I know, no one! Maybe because all the current factions are advertised on the new warhammer40000 page?
That means nothing
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
Seneca wrote: loki old fart wrote:I know we've been promised rules for all the factions.
But any guesses on who'll be the first to get the brettonian treatment.
I know, no one! Maybe because all the current factions are advertised on the new warhammer40000 page?
The only factions I think won't survive are the Forge World ones. They'll probably fart out new profiles/points for all of their current models, but the army lists themselves will languish until they get around to updating the IA books again, so sometime in the 2020's before you see a new one. Forge World is not known to be particularly nimble.
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Post by: Dr._Jim_J_Jimmy
loki old fart wrote: Seneca wrote: loki old fart wrote:I know we've been promised rules for all the factions.
But any guesses on who'll be the first to get the brettonian treatment.
I know, no one! Maybe because all the current factions are advertised on the new warhammer40000 page?
That means nothing
And why is that?
123
Post by: Alpharius
Just checked the OP, it doesn't seem to have been updated yet.
Is there any more to report here?
Anything I should add in to the first post?
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Post by: krazynadechukr
I have gamed GW games since 1989, and had been out of it (gaming part, not modeling) the last few years. I was really crushed when Warhammer Fantasy turned into AoS. I had a wonderful Kislev themed army and didn't care for the new AoS game fluff. I briefly thought about getting into AoS with these Kharadron minis, but snapped out of it.
I was really excited about the Custodes, Cypher and the Fallen, and nearly bought some stuff. This announcement came in a nick of time. I for one will wait to see what this new (game) system will look like. I quit xbox for nearly the same reasons that Gw are doing now. New consoles every other year or so, playing a game for years only to have a sequel have you start all over again with new play style, just a money trap.
I will say my distant third game choice that was in the back of my mind, Team Yankee, is now my top choice. Has anyone else found themselves in that scenario?
I am surprised that GW & FW are selling off (invalidated per GW) codexes at regular prices. That's kinda rude, IMHO. However, free basic rules is a nice touch. In the past we have seen model points go down in order for GW to sell even more miniatures. There have been several articles from GW that have always said they wanted 40k games to have massive armies and engines in them like epic. I'd bet the new 40k games will have model counts up to the 100s now like in AoS and not around 50 models like now. Probably become more "spirit warfare" maybe have a spirit phase in nature too with fantastical astral projection swirly models of the ghostly realm and that kind of thing.......the negative imaged space map kinda hints at that whole universe reality is flipped vibe.......Bet we see true scale happen, so people need to redo armies...
Oh well, change is the rule of life. nothing stays the same forever, everything will change, so accept this and enjoy the journey.
I like their video, looked like new game of thrones season video....
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Post by: Necros
Oh here's another thing I'd like to see.. a few discounted bundle themed 2-player starter sets, like what you'd get from 2 different start collecting sets.. and each one has a printed copy of the rules and nice stat cards for each unit.
#NiceStatCards
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Post by: Nultaar
Intresting that the Imperial agents picture is the Drill Abbot from the Dark Heresy RP books.
8725
Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Looking to the fyootcha.....
If GW ditch USR in favour of 'it's on your warscroll/dataslate/unit thingy, people will have to get used to two previously identical rules not being the same.
Good example in AoS are shields. Some shields grant a standard Save Modifier. Other shields might allow you to ignore Rend (armour save modifiers) below a certain threshold.
That's intentional, that's normal for AoS.
And again, assuming that's how it all goes (though I'd be surprised if it doesn't) you can also brace for periodic scroll updates. Increase in damage here, rewording of a rule there - typically following player feedback.
Get ready for a more dynamic rules set in that regard.
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Post by: loki old fart
Just because it's there this week/month, doesn't mean it'll be there 6/12mth's from now.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
krazynadechukr wrote:
I am flabbergasted that GW & FW are selling off (useless) codexes at regular prices. That's kinda rude, IMHO. However, free basic rules is a nice touch.
Really? You think it's "flabbergasting" that GW & FW are doing that?
You do know very few companies actually discount product because of some perceived "invalidation", yeah? Campaign: Paradiso for Infinity--a book that is effectively worthless at this point, beyond the lore, is still full priced.
Right up until Infinity 3rd edition dropped, the main rulebook was full priced.
Same with the Human Sphere expansion book. Automatically Appended Next Post: loki old fart wrote:
Just because it's there this week/month, doesn't mean it'll be there 6/12mth's from now.
Bretonnians and Tomb Kings both still have their rules in the app. I think they got points in the General's Handbook as well.
Only thing that happened is the models got discontinued.
89474
Post by: Requizen
loki old fart wrote:
Just because it's there this week/month, doesn't mean it'll be there 6/12mth's from now.
You could say that about any other edition of the game. You just sound paranoid.
I'm sure the first army to be removed will be the one that you enjoy the most so you can give us all your favorite chicken little impression.
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Post by: loki old fart
 Kanluwen wrote:krazynadechukr wrote:
I am flabbergasted that GW & FW are selling off (useless) codexes at regular prices. That's kinda rude, IMHO. However, free basic rules is a nice touch.
Really? You think it's "flabbergasting" that GW & FW are doing that?
You do know very few companies actually discount product because of some perceived "invalidation", yeah? Campaign: Paradiso for Infinity--a book that is effectively worthless at this point, beyond the lore, is still full priced.
Right up until Infinity 3rd edition dropped, the main rulebook was full priced.
Same with the Human Sphere expansion book.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
loki old fart wrote:
Just because it's there this week/month, doesn't mean it'll be there 6/12mth's from now.
Bretonnians and Tomb Kings both still have their rules in the app. I think they got points in the General's Handbook as well.
Only thing that happened is the models got discontinued.
Which effectively longterm is the kiss of death. No new models means no new rules needed, means no new players of that faction.
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Post by: SeanDrake
Requizen wrote: loki old fart wrote:
Just because it's there this week/month, doesn't mean it'll be there 6/12mth's from now.
You could say that about any other edition of the game. You just sound paranoid.
I'm sure the first army to be removed will be the one that you enjoy the most so you can give us all your favorite chicken little impression.
No army will be removed when they release the new rules at launch, however AoS shows that 90% of them will be left to rot for the foreseeable future. I would fully expect them to keep all factions until 2nd err I mean 9th edition when they will be hidden under the stairsbehind a standee of AoS.
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Post by: SlaveToDorkness
I read somewhere that GW has set up Death Panels to determine if a faction was well enough to continue on in the game...
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Post by: AllSeeingSkink
Requizen wrote:You could say that about any other edition of the game. You just sound paranoid.
Well Bretonnia and Tomb Kings were the first faction GW killed since, ummm, Squats I guess?
So for all the wonderful things about the new look GW, killing a faction isn't below them.
That said, I doubt any faction will get killed, most of the main factions probably have enough popularity to carry on. Bretonnians didn't get a new book for, what was it, 10 of 11 years (?) before they finally just killed them, no 40k faction has been that neglected, not even SoB's.
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Post by: Chad Warden
Renegade Knights seem to no longer be a faction
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Post by: loki old fart
 SlaveToDorkness wrote:I read somewhere that GW has set up Death Panels to determine if a faction was well enough to continue on in the game...
I hope not. I should be ok for thousand sons and orks though. I just don't want to lose any factional depth.
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Post by: Kanluwen
To be fair...
We don't seem to be getting a preview of what's to come. Who knows if we are going to see a "Forges of the Damned" faction or an Iron Warriors faction where Renegade Knights are a part--or if Renegade Knights was just a quick stopgap last year?
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Post by: Daedalus81
About 3 hours until the live Q&A, right? Perhaps they'll tease us with more stuff.
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Post by: Dakka Flakka Flame
Pizza Handbook confirmed.
Three ways to enjoy pizza:
1. With pineapple.
2. Without pineapple.
3. While playing the new edition of Warhammer 40,000.
Also, it looks like the new edition almost certainly will not blend.
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Post by: Voodoo_Chile
Daedalus81 wrote:About 3 hours until the live Q&A, right? Perhaps they'll tease us with more stuff.
Isn't it 17:15 BST, so about ~45 minutes?
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Post by: xttz
Yeah 17:15 BST is in about 40mins from this post
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Post by: Ghaz
Yes. 17:15 BST is 12:15 EDT, so about 35 minutes.
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Post by: TomWilton
 Hragged wrote:So free rules, updated yearly, with community input - nice!
Potentially. But look what has become of Army Builders and quoting Formations and Point Costs for AoS since the "free" rules appeared?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 Ghaz wrote:
Yes. 17:15 BST is 12:15 EDT, so about 35 minutes.
29 actually
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Post by: stonehorse
Where can we go to get the live Q&A?
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Post by: DynamicCalories
TomWilton wrote: Hragged wrote:So free rules, updated yearly, with community input - nice!
Potentially. But look what has become of Army Builders and quoting Formations and Point Costs for AoS since the "free" rules appeared?
They're all available for free on Scroll Builder, which will soon be supported directly by GW?
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Post by: Daedalus81
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Post by: Not-not-kenny
Nultaar wrote:Intresting that the Imperial agents picture is the Drill Abbot from the Dark Heresy RP books.
The same picture was in Codex: Inquisition IIRC.
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Post by: Daedalus81
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Post by: stonehorse
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Post by: lindsay40k
I am totally down with units getting their full rules published on a single page data sheet. We already have 'this shield works differently to that shield' with the two variants on 'this model is aligned to the god of blood' and three variants therein on 'this model gets hyper-aggressive in melee'. I've been playing most weeks for a year and STILL have to close my Codex to open my Rulebook and swipe pages until I find Rage or Rampage or Furious Charge.
I only hope Summoning does not turn out like Sigmar, with the risk being all in the success rate with hardly any way to trade safety for success. As a Word Bearer, having no way to throw all my WC into a Conjuration would be abominable. I shelved my Tomb Kings when their playing style got completely messed around.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
Summoning needs a massive fix in Age of Sigmar, which I hope the GHB2 brings along.
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Post by: Requizen
 lindsay40k wrote:
I only hope Summoning does not turn out like Sigmar, with the risk being all in the success rate with hardly any way to trade safety for success. As a Word Bearer, having no way to throw all my WC into a Conjuration would be abominable. I shelved my Tomb Kings when their playing style got completely messed around.
We don't know how Psychic Powers, Warp Charges, and Summoning will even behave, so it's a bit silly to think of the new rules in line with how Conjuration and casting in general currently works. I hope the entire Psychic Phase and list of powers gets gutted, it's too bloated and filled with absolutely disgusting, broken stuff but then also useless crap that everyone ignores if they roll.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
lindsay40k wrote:I am totally down with units getting their full rules published on a single page data sheet. We already have 'this shield works differently to that shield' with the two variants on 'this model is aligned to the god of blood' and three variants therein on 'this model gets hyper-aggressive in melee'. I've been playing most weeks for a year and STILL have to close my Codex to open my Rulebook and swipe pages until I find Rage or Rampage or Furious Charge.
I only hope Summoning does not turn out like Sigmar, with the risk being all in the success rate with hardly any way to trade safety for success. As a Word Bearer, having no way to throw all my WC into a Conjuration would be abominable. I shelved my Tomb Kings when their playing style got completely messed around.
Tomb Kings were the one "summoning" army that got away with murder. :-p Banners, Heralds, etc... "added back" a unit, meant anything from Chariots to Necropolis Knights were essentially unkillable. My TK actually felt MORE fluffy, and terrific in AoS than they ever did in Fantasy. :-p
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Post by: davou
I'm at work and behind a firewall that blocks facebook and twitch; any chance people can be awesome and summarize the Q&A points here?
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Post by: NivlacSupreme
davou wrote:I'm at work and behind a firewall that blocks facebook and twitch; any chance people can be awesome and summarize the Q&A points here?
I second this. I can't watch either. Stupid flash player.
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Post by: Verviedi
I'd do it, but sadly I have no audio abilities and just my phone on me. I'll post screenshots if they show anything relevant.
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Post by: Lorek
I'm only seeing it on Facebook, not Twitch. Just a heads-up.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
 NivlacSupreme wrote: davou wrote:I'm at work and behind a firewall that blocks facebook and twitch; any chance people can be awesome and summarize the Q&A points here?
I second this. I can't watch either. Stupid flash player.
I'll do me best if others cannot
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Post by: Requizen
Starting now!
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Post by: Verviedi
Nope, seems to be a bit late. Still offline on twitch
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Post by: DynamicCalories
Andy and Pete are on stream now.
They've taken questions over the weekend, and then they'll pick some live.
Categories: Format of Rules, How it Plays, Game Design.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Movement values are back.
Armour modifiers to all guns.
If you charges you strike first (details later)
Morale tests as per the Adepticon update.
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Post by: Daedalus81
No more vehicle armor values!
They work just as AoS monsters.
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Post by: Requizen
Vehicles will work like Monsters in AoS - wounds and decreasing ability while damaged.
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Post by: Voodoo_Chile
Oh ffs, it's only on Facebook it looks like and as I don't have a FB account, it's interrupting every 30 seconds looking for me to login.
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
On the warhammer 40,000 site, in the War Zones section, it says of Armageddon that both sides are "utterly unprepared for the escalation to come". So it sounds like the storyline there might be advancing soon.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
Vehicles don't have armour values - all models have the same stat line.
Vehicles will have damage tables as per AoS monsters/vehicles: as they take damage, Weapon use, Strength and BS will start to come down.
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Post by: rollawaythestone
Armor Values have been removed. Vehicles get weaker as they take wounds, like in Age of Sigmar.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
"Everybody can hurt everybody else in the game."
I am sure that will annoy some people.
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Post by: DjPyro3
Not sure how I feel about Las-Guns being able to harm a Leman Russ, no matter how hard it is.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
A 1.5k point game should take 90mins to 2 hours to finish now.
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Post by: Requizen
DjPyro3 wrote:Not sure how I feel about Las-Guns being able to harm a Leman Russ, no matter how hard it is.
I'm not. Hard to kill tanks will probably have like 16+ wounds and a good save, you can see in AoS that monsters that are supposed to be tough take a lot of focus to go down.
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Post by: Mymearan
Oh this'll make for some... interesting reactions. we're going AoS baby! No fixed hit/wound though.
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Post by: Requizen
14 Force Org Charts! Many different ways to build armies!
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Post by: Kanluwen
Requizen wrote:DjPyro3 wrote:Not sure how I feel about Las-Guns being able to harm a Leman Russ, no matter how hard it is.
I'm not. Hard to kill tanks will probably have like 16+ wounds and a good save, you can see in AoS that monsters that are supposed to be tough take a lot of focus to go down.
Same.
They just said something about all the various warzone rules(Cityfight, Planetstrike, etc) being in at start.
Also Force Org Charts. Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Lowering profiles on tanks is interesting, will be intrigued to see if the more damaged they are (more holes are in the side) the tank is easier to kill from weapons with a lower profile.
However in general if they are T8 with over ten wounds, I'll invite my opponents Guard to shoot at them all day.
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Post by: Azreal13
DjPyro3 wrote:Not sure how I feel about Las-Guns being able to harm a Leman Russ, no matter how hard it is.
It's going to be a side effect of adopting the fixed to hit/wound system in AOS. Which they haven't said they're doing, but, lets be honest, it isn't obviously where this is going.
I think it brings more positives than negatives, and when this was debated recently, someone calculated that, with modest stats, it would take 100s of lasgun shots to take down something decently tough.
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Post by: DjPyro3
Good god. 14 Force Org charts will be available at the start. Each will give different command points, which will give you different abilities in the main rule book.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Mymearan wrote:
Oh this'll make for some... interesting reactions. we're going AoS baby! No fixed hit/wound though.
Did they actually say that?
Because that's basically how AoS works with fixed hit/wound.
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Post by: Mymearan
Command points allow you to interrupt your opponents turn with your own units! Very interesting.
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Post by: Cryptek of Awesome
We're going for a simplified streamlined game... oh with 14 Force Org Charts.
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Post by: Mymearan
Kanluwen wrote: Mymearan wrote:
Oh this'll make for some... interesting reactions. we're going AoS baby! No fixed hit/wound though.
Did they actually say that?
Because that's basically how AoS works with fixed hit/wound.
They talked about Strenght/Toughness so yeah not fixed.
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Post by: Lord Kragan
Combat will NOT work exactly as in AOS. Instead of going I go you go the attacking player will make ALL its attacks with ALL units before the other has time to react or uses command points.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
The Force Organisation chart will still exist in Narrative and Matched.
However there are now different 14 Force Org Charts. Filling these in will give you command points that can be spent on things like dice re-rolls, interrupting the traditional sequence of charges in the combat phase.
These are generic, like AoS's abilities and spells, but codexes will bring in specific options for each army.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Lowering profiles on tanks is interesting, will be intrigued to see if the more damaged they are (more holes are in the side) the tank is easier to kill from weapons with a lower profile.
However in general if they are T8 with over ten wounds, I'll invite my opponents Guard to shoot at them all day.
That's assuming Toughness values are going to remain.
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Post by: Ratius
Via the live stream:
All Adepticon leaks confirmed - movement changes, initiative etc etc.
No more vehicle armor values - all models use same stat lines.
Vehicles have damage tables -> when they take dmg stats of them decrease.
Tailored for each vehicle.
Vehicles have S and T "everyone can hurt everyone else".
Each army will keep their current playstyles.
Still a d6 system.
1500 point game = 90 minutes approx from playtesting.
Narrative play fully supported. Campaigns, warzones, worlds etc.
Cityfight, planetstrike "will have a home".
Every current model + scenery all supported in 8th.
Command points: battleforged + force org chart still in.
14 force org charts to be released.
If fulfilled you generate command points.
Rerolls, interrupts of enemy charges if command point spent.
Certain amount of CPs per org charts.
Each army codex will get unique CPs.
Codexes will be in 8th - updated and new rules.
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Post by: Azreal13
At last! Something that allows for interaction in the off turn!
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Post by: Lockark
Going to edit this post as new info comes out:
watching the live feed. Their will be 14 different forge org charts in the book, each giving diff number of command points. CP can be used for stuff like re-roll dice, another example was to be able to interrupt who goes 1st in CC. Their are generic ones in the book, but army specif ones will be added.
You can only use one per phase.
All match play armies need to be "battle forged" and use a FOC.
Edit: Templates are on the way out like in AoS.
Note: I missed the start of the stream. Comeing in was the tail end of everything being able to hurt everything and tanks not getting popped in 1st turn. Sounds like Tanks will be toughness based.
But it sounds like all the things they talked about as comeing changes awhile back is correct. Some people suspected it was a early april fools, since all the mentioned rules were rules in shadow wars. Witch went of pre-order april 1st. So they thought the joke was shadow wars was the "new edition" they were talking about.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
Lord Kragan wrote:Combat will NOT work exactly as in AOS. Instead of going I go you go the attacking player will make ALL its attacks with ALL units before the other has time to react or uses command points.
They stated charges will get priority but command points can be spent to interrupt that sequence.
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Post by: DjPyro3
Templates are going away!
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Post by: Lord Kragan
Templates join the dodo.
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Post by: Requizen
Templates are GONE. They're DEAD.
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Post by: DynamicCalories
I think other people are doing this better than myself so I'll let them carry on!
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Post by: Kanluwen
And there was no rejoicing!
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
True.. but I've never been against the AoS rules system.. just some lore changes.
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Post by: Ratius
Templates are gone "template free edition".
1 CP spend per phase.
Different force org charts give different # of CPs.
8th ed has been beta tested " a lot in the US". Reece from FLG has done some as have adepticon organisers.
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Post by: Lord Kragan
Wait, you guys from frontline gaming knew this!?
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Post by: SeanDrake
LoL so a carbon copy of AoS, someone needs to ask how stormcast fare against marines.
Any interest in 8th just vanished in a cloud of meh, saves me watching the rest.
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Post by: Mymearan
Adepticon and Nova teams have been playtesting every single unit and core rules
"Most playtested game by a mile"
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Post by: rollawaythestone
Dev Team says this is the most play-tested version of the game ever. Slightly worrisome
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