GaroRobe wrote: You know...that actually sounds pretty awesome. I'll take it.
Honestly, I'd bloody take it too, as long as it's the good ol' ForgeWorld standard of Diorama bases that a bunch of smaller and more playable base can neatly slot into. Damnit, I just sold a model to myself.
Voss wrote: Wait, if these torso bits are for 'older armor marks,' which models do they actually fit? That shouldn't be a trap for buyers to discover on their own.
Mostly the plastic MK III and IV and all the resin marks, seeing as they're full torsos, but of course they'll be completely compatible with any regular space marine unit of the "old era" multiparts.
What makes you think they're full torsos, rather than just front pieces? The pictures don't show anything beyond the front, and the text doesn't say anything. I guess they fit mark 4, given the link, but I'd rather not have to guess.
Voss wrote: Wait, if these torso bits are for 'older armor marks,' which models do they actually fit? That shouldn't be a trap for buyers to discover on their own.
Mostly the plastic MK III and IV and all the resin marks, seeing as they're full torsos, but of course they'll be completely compatible with any regular space marine unit of the "old era" multiparts.
What makes you think they're full torsos, rather than just front pieces? The pictures don't show anything beyond the front, and the text doesn't say anything. I guess they fit mark 4, given the link, but I'd rather not have to guess.
Because they're the same torsos they had until LCTBing them a few years ago.
They don't show the back because they're just normal Marine backs that the backpacks cover up.
Voss wrote: What makes you think they're full torsos, rather than just front pieces? The pictures don't show anything beyond the front, and the text doesn't say anything. I guess they fit mark 4, given the link, but I'd rather not have to guess.
You can literally see the bit that covers the back of the neck and the dip where the head goes...
arkhanist wrote: I assume the praetors happened to get extra-pure geneseed, making them closer to the primarch and inherited more of his traits. Which made them taller and stronger and probably smarter, which is why they ended up getting promoted in the first place.
Unless they changed the lore, praetors generally aren't predestined by genetics (whether natural or geneseed) with some exceptions like psykers in the Thousand Sons or maye the clone-sons of Horus.
Voss wrote: Wait, if these torso bits are for 'older armor marks,' which models do they actually fit? That shouldn't be a trap for buyers to discover on their own.
Mostly the plastic MK III and IV and all the resin marks, seeing as they're full torsos, but of course they'll be completely compatible with any regular space marine unit of the "old era" multiparts.
What makes you think they're full torsos, rather than just front pieces? The pictures don't show anything beyond the front, and the text doesn't say anything. I guess they fit mark 4, given the link, but I'd rather not have to guess.
Because they're the same torsos they had until LCTBing them a few years ago.
They don't show the back because they're just normal Marine backs that the backpacks cover up.
Exactly this, yeah. Also, Because all of them were full torsos.
Voss wrote: What makes you think they're full torsos, rather than just front pieces? The pictures don't show anything beyond the front, and the text doesn't say anything. I guess they fit mark 4, given the link, but I'd rather not have to guess.
You can literally see the bit that covers the back of the neck and the dip where the head goes...
Ah. That looked like a gorget to me. Angle and paint made it look convex rather than concave.
warboss wrote: Unless they changed the lore, praetors generally aren't predestined by genetics (whether natural or geneseed) with some exceptions like psykers in the Thousand Sons or maye the clone-sons of Horus.
The Tsons don't always promote Psykers, it's just preferred and Abaddon being a clone was only a joke/rumour, it was very much confirmed in the HH books (where the rumour originated) that Abaddon was recruited by Maloghurst on Cthonia.
warboss wrote: Unless they changed the lore, praetors generally aren't predestined by genetics (whether natural or geneseed) with some exceptions like psykers in the Thousand Sons or maye the clone-sons of Horus.
The Tsons don't always promote Psykers, it's just preferred and Abaddon being a clone was only a joke/rumour, it was very much confirmed in the HH books (where the rumour originated) that Abaddon was recruited by Maloghurst on Cthonia.
He means the so called "Sons of Horus" like Little Horus and the Either/Or. Not actual clones, but the ones that physically look like Horus due to the geneseed.
Except that's not a trait specific to the Sons of Horus. Astartes geneseed often manipulates the genetics of the implantee so they become more like their Primarch, some become miniature replicas. The "Sons of Horus" moniker was just a term coined by the Luna Wolves to mark out those who facially resembled their father the most, it didn't mean they were genetically destined for command.
Gert wrote: Except that's not a trait specific to the Sons of Horus. Astartes geneseed often manipulates the genetics of the implantee so they become more like their Primarch, some become miniature replicas. The "Sons of Horus" moniker was just a term coined by the Luna Wolves to mark out those who facially resembled their father the most, it didn't mean they were genetically destined for command.
Indeed; all Alpha Legionnaires tend to look nearly identical to each other and to their primarch.
What’s weird is that they also look different every time you encounter them…
Voss wrote: Wait, if these torso bits are for 'older armor marks,' which models do they actually fit? That shouldn't be a trap for buyers to discover on their own.
They were released as Mk II upgrades but they're fully compatible with the MkIII and MkIV plastics. They even put them into a bundle to go alongside the Battle of Calth release:
I don't normally do the "3D printer go brrrr!" thing, but I do wonder how much they're going to charge for those made-2-order Iron Warrior/Dark Angel pads.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't normally do the "3D printer go brrrr!" thing, but I do wonder how much they're going to charge for those made-2-order Iron Warrior/Dark Angel pads.
They're resin, giving them away would still be too much.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't normally do the "3D printer go brrrr!" thing, but I do wonder how much they're going to charge for those made-2-order Iron Warrior/Dark Angel pads.
While I tend to have mine go brrr with pads, for some reason, there seems to be a lack of "proper" Heresy era DA emblem pads. Pretty much all I've seen use the updated Primaris version of the chapter emblem rather than the full arched wings FW uses.
The fact they're doing the IW(as lame as Perty boys are) makes me hopeful for my 18th. I really want to replace all the ones that got jacked...and some!
Gert wrote: Except that's not a trait specific to the Sons of Horus. Astartes geneseed often manipulates the genetics of the implantee so they become more like their Primarch, some become miniature replicas. The "Sons of Horus" moniker was just a term coined by the Luna Wolves to mark out those who facially resembled their father the most, it didn't mean they were genetically destined for command.
I seem to recall it mentioned in Horus Rising that "Sons of Horus" tended to be more likely to be promoted, and it was odd that Loken was so senior when he wasn't a "Son of Horus"? Maybe I'm just misremembering. Also I only got through the first few books of the HH novels, so maybe it's clarified more later.
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queen_annes_revenge wrote: I don't care about different size marines in my forces at all. I just accept it as part of the hobby.
Yeah, in the end it doesn't bother me as much as whacky proportions and Marines that are no taller than your average Guardsmen.
GW scaling has never been so good as to worry about things like height variation within a single race (other than Orks where it's part of their power structure).
I'm not sure about fluff for different sized armours, but there's definitely been fluff on different sized Marines so maybe there's conflicting fluff or something? I dunno. Abaddon is mentioned as being exceptionally large, as was one specific Terminator in the Space Wolves. I'm sure there's more but those are the ones that immediately come to mind.
Ranulf was the wolf. Pollux was big. That's the first time I heard of Abaddon being a giant (I can't stand the guy that writes Black Legion though so it's not like I've read any of the Abaddon stories in recent years).
Voss wrote: Wait, if these torso bits are for 'older armor marks,' which models do they actually fit? That shouldn't be a trap for buyers to discover on their own.
They were released as Mk II upgrades but they're fully compatible with the MkIII and MkIV plastics. They even put them into a bundle to go alongside the Battle of Calth release:
Those helmets are pretty dammed sweet. The stand out from that picture
Torsos are meh for me.
The shoulder pads are nice but likely only would use on sergeants or characters.
JWBS wrote: Ranulf was the wolf. Pollux was big. That's the first time I heard of Abaddon being a giant (I can't stand the guy that writes Black Legion though so it's not like I've read any of the Abaddon stories in recent years).
I'm not sure Abaddon was a "giant", but I recall in the first couple of HH novels he's described as being larger than regular Space Marines, and his size is often referenced when it talks about him being intimidating or when other Marines have to hold him back.
JWBS wrote: Ranulf was the wolf. Pollux was big. That's the first time I heard of Abaddon being a giant (I can't stand the guy that writes Black Legion though so it's not like I've read any of the Abaddon stories in recent years).
I'm not sure Abaddon was a "giant", but I recall in the first couple of HH novels he's described as being larger than regular Space Marines, and his size is often referenced when it talks about him being intimidating or when other Marines have to hold him back.
And yet, everyone knew he was "short for a stormtrooper" - someone let a deluded Abaddon fan try to retcon his lack of stature...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd rather Cataphractii and Tartaros pads, especially the latter. I don't think FW every made any Chapter-specific ones for that type.
Yeah, they never made Tartaros pads except for the first run when they had the Crux Terminatos symbol on the left shoulder. They made a few Cataphractii pads though - World Eaters, Death Guard, Iron Hands, Sons of Horus, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors. The Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion one's were pretty good:
JWBS wrote: Ranulf was the wolf. Pollux was big. That's the first time I heard of Abaddon being a giant (I can't stand the guy that writes Black Legion though so it's not like I've read any of the Abaddon stories in recent years).
I'm not sure Abaddon was a "giant", but I recall in the first couple of HH novels he's described as being larger than regular Space Marines, and his size is often referenced when it talks about him being intimidating or when other Marines have to hold him back.
Abaddon has always had him rumored to be a clone of Horus as part of his fluff. That wasn't a big deal in 2nd ed because the Primarchs hadn't been embiggened yet. Once GW decided to do that, as a consequence Abaddon had to be embiggened as well for that part of his fluff to still be credible.
The HH books rule it out too. There are stories/flashbacks of Abaddon on Cthonia. Though his friends during that time were analogs of the four chaos gods, so.......
And yet, everyone knew he was "short for a stormtrooper" - someone let a deluded Abaddon fan try to retcon his lack of stature...
I mean the old model was tiny because it was never updated past 3rd edition Terminator sizes. I've never seen it written anywhere that Abaddon was smaller than the average Astartes.
Abaddon is the chaos lord of chaos lords so of course he's massive. His 2nd ed mini was the biggest terminator mini at the time and now he's the biggest space marine mini. Yes, Abaddon could beat your dude in a fight. Yes, if Abaddon said "jump" your dude would ask "how high". This is canon. Stay mad.
JSG wrote: Abaddon is the chaos lord of chaos lords so of course he's massive. His 2nd ed mini was the biggest terminator mini at the time and now he's the biggest space marine mini. Yes, Abaddon could beat your dude in a fight. Yes, if Abaddon said "jump" your dude would ask "how high". This is canon. Stay mad.
I was mentioning Abaddon in the context of the HH though, so before he was a Chaos Lord. He was described as being big in the Horus Rising book, i.e. pre-heresy.
And he's only 1 example of a big Space Marine, there's been others, Ranulf and Polux have both been mentioned as being larger than normal also.
As far as I know The Black Legion books only hint at the *possibility* Abaddon is a Horus Clone. Abaddon is suspected to be one by the narrator (who is, as people seem to love pointing out, incredibly unreliable). Abaddon himself never states yes or no.
However, other books as far as I know make the exact opposite claim.
blood reaper wrote: As far as I know The Black Legion books only hint at the *possibility* Abaddon is a Horus Clone. Abaddon is suspected to be one by the narrator (who is, as people seem to love pointing out, incredibly unreliable). Abaddon himself never states yes or no.
However, other books as far as I know make the exact opposite claim.
Yes, but even he isn't a clone, he must look like it would be a plausible assumption for people to think that in the first place. This is just one of the many inconsistencies caused by supersizing the primarchs.
Gert wrote: Or it was always a joke/Imperial theory that once again thanks to things like 4chan and the 40k Wiki, people took as truth.
It wasn't, it was an intentional mystery seed, to make the background bigger and more mysterious.
Like a lot of stuff, its been pruned away by 50+ novels.
Units: UM Nemesis Destroyer Squad - Themed Destroyers DG Mortus Poisoner Squad - Themed Destroyers WE Red Hand Destroyer Assault Squad - Themed Destroyers WS Dark Sons of Death Squad - Themed Destroyers IW Dominator Cohort - Themed Terminators (Cataphractii) IF Huscarl Squad - Themed Terminators (Cataphractii) NL Atramentar Squad - Themed Terminators (Tartaros / Contekar?) DA Inner Circle Knights Cenobium (Order of the Broken Claws) - New variant EC Sun Killer Squad - Heavy Weapon / Support Squad RG Deliverer Squad - Themed Terminators (Cataphractii) WB Procurators - Themed Assault Squad
And are waiting for updated rules for everything (apart from the Procurators), and stuff for Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Thousand Sons, Sons of Horus, Salamanders & Alpha Legion.
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Erren wrote: I was kinda hoping for a terminator unit for the Word Bearers, but that unit's really cool!
Did they use terminators all that much? I always thought they skipped over them in favor of possessed/deamons?
Right now - just the WB Procurators from The Scouring of Gilden's Star (the missions might still work, but I've not looked at them too closely). They've said everything was playtested with the new rules so hopefully an update isn't too far off...
JSG wrote: Abaddon is the chaos lord of chaos lords so of course he's massive. His 2nd ed mini was the biggest terminator mini at the time and now he's the biggest space marine mini. Yes, Abaddon could beat your dude in a fight. Yes, if Abaddon said "jump" your dude would ask "how high". This is canon. Stay mad.
I was mentioning Abaddon in the context of the HH though, so before he was a Chaos Lord. He was described as being big in the Horus Rising book, i.e. pre-heresy.
And he's only 1 example of a big Space Marine, there's been others, Ranulf and Polux have both been mentioned as being larger than normal also.
Yeah because torgaddon jokes that he's too big to fit in a suit or terminator armour.... Which literally makes no sense at all, but still, maybe that's the joke.
Maybe the "Abaddon is a clone-son" *originally* came from really old lore about Fabius Bile cloning Horus? And BL then kept it in as a funny little reference when they restarted the HH lore with the "new" series?
BL authors don't seem to communicate fantastically with one another.
ADBs BL books, which bring up the clone stuff (in like, a brief segment from a character who is very much an unreliable narrator) as a 'question' and its never stated one way or the other. It is also said Abaddon would not be a true clone - an altered one - but not a true clone.
In the Siege of Terra books, Abaddon is *not* a clone and this is made as like, a fact. Abaddon is not a clone - he was born on Cthonia.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't normally do the "3D printer go brrrr!" thing, but I do wonder how much they're going to charge for those made-2-order Iron Warrior/Dark Angel pads.
If you don´t want to spend the cash doing a free-hand for a legion symbol is the next best option. Doing this right now with the rest of my unpainted 40KSM stuff.
Ah, reminding me how they made a second unique terminator for Night Lords and still got it wrong. I honestly can't grasp how dumb they are to make two unique Tartaros armored units. For the love of god give them Cataphracti, or let them choose.
blood reaper wrote: BL authors don't seem to communicate fantastically with one another.
ADBs BL books, which bring up the clone stuff (in like, a brief segment from a character who is very much an unreliable narrator) as a 'question' and its never stated one way or the other. It is also said Abaddon would not be a true clone - an altered one - but not a true clone.
In the Siege of Terra books, Abaddon is *not* a clone and this is made as like, a fact. Abaddon is not a clone - he was born on Cthonia.
there's nothing odd here guys and no communication problem.,
Rumors of Abaddon being a clone of Horus, and notes that he's exceptionally large have been around since the guy was introduced in 40k. the entire "sons of horus" thing, where the SoH geneseed makes legionaares look like Horus was in fact created to address this when the HH novels where first written. The rumor is one that has been stated to exist ICly. and it's one that we've known for some time is false. there's no "communication problem" there's just a rumor we know is bs
Yea. Why is it problem to have in-universe bogus rumours? It just adds flavour.
Of course players have bad habit of taking it extreme. In universe ad mech speculating orks doing crazy stuff with belief and players take it as gospel and think orks shoot with empty boxes...
And yet, everyone knew he was "short for a stormtrooper" - someone let a deluded Abaddon fan try to retcon his lack of stature...
I mean the old model was tiny because it was never updated past 3rd edition Terminator sizes. I've never seen it written anywhere that Abaddon was smaller than the average Astartes.
^ Can we say this.
Abaddon has ALWAYS been a big boy. At the time his 2nd ed model was released it was enormous. It dwarfed other non-Monster SCs and was bigger than other Terminator models from that era.
He only became 'small' when his sculpt was never updated over the years. Yes, scale creep HAS taken place - you only need to compare the plastic Terminators to their 2nd ed counterparts to see that. You only need to compare a RTSM to a 2nd ed SM then to a 3rd ed SM.
A lot of the older SC models seemed 'small' because their sculpts were never updated - and GW's reasoning for that was that their aesthetic design was considered 'iconic' enough to remain as is.
Interesting to have so many Destroyer themed units. Really hoping they get a plastic kit.
The Word Bearers apothecary thing is super thematic and cool. I love these little extra bits.
Stuff like this gives people reason to convert and kitbash. Y'know, to actually participate in the hobby instead of building things only how they come in the box...
drbored wrote: Interesting to have so many Destroyer themed units. Really hoping they get a plastic kit.
The Word Bearers apothecary thing is super thematic and cool. I love these little extra bits.
Stuff like this gives people reason to convert and kitbash. Y'know, to actually participate in the hobby instead of building things only how they come in the box...
I'd love destroyers to get a plastic kit, maybe with a few added options than just pistols and a rad missile launcher. Maybe a rad cleanser as an alternate special weapon?
Hopefully, at some point in the very near future, the basic troop boxes will return to stock. I can't even find the Mk.IV at WHW physically this week, must have sold like hot cakes!
Cool indy stores that care about the local player base carry direct only product too. The margins are about half of normal but my store can still give 10% off on RRP. Anyone who says they can't get it, what they mean is it's not worth their time to do you a favour.
drbored wrote: Interesting to have so many Destroyer themed units. Really hoping they get a plastic kit.
The Word Bearers apothecary thing is super thematic and cool. I love these little extra bits.
Stuff like this gives people reason to convert and kitbash. Y'know, to actually participate in the hobby instead of building things only how they come in the box...
I'd love destroyers to get a plastic kit, maybe with a few added options than just pistols and a rad missile launcher. Maybe a rad cleanser as an alternate special weapon?
So with stuff like Assault Marines, Breachers, Destroyers really all we need are upgrade kits right? Because you can use any Mark of basic power armor as a base?
Mr_Rose wrote: I see they merged the three Thanatar entries into one - could that be the sign of a single kit with options to make all three primary classes?
Did they sell enough thanatars to justify a plastic kit?
Since the only difference is the weapon loadout and unit composition, it would make sense to agglomerate the profiles tbh.
Maybe it'll be the same thing as with legion land raiders where you can add a single achillies among a squadron?
Cool indy stores that care about the local player base carry direct only product too. The margins are about half of normal but my store can still give 10% off on RRP. Anyone who says they can't get it, what they mean is it's not worth their time to do you a favour.
At least here it also results in super long waiting times. Ordered 1 model via flgs. End of may still waiting. Shop had put in order. Gw just slow at delivering.
drbored wrote: Interesting to have so many Destroyer themed units. Really hoping they get a plastic kit.
The Word Bearers apothecary thing is super thematic and cool. I love these little extra bits.
Stuff like this gives people reason to convert and kitbash. Y'know, to actually participate in the hobby instead of building things only how they come in the box...
I'd love destroyers to get a plastic kit, maybe with a few added options than just pistols and a rad missile launcher. Maybe a rad cleanser as an alternate special weapon?
So with stuff like Assault Marines, Breachers, Destroyers really all we need are upgrade kits right? Because you can use any Mark of basic power armor as a base?
Jump troops could use a second base kit, then a pistol/melee option with either the mk vi or jump squad could cover assault marines or despoilers. A twin pistol and rad weapon upgrade sprue combined with either would cover foot and jump destroyers. And an upgrade with shields and guns would cover breachers.
On the other hand, a breacher squad would be a good excuse to make a mk II or updated Mk III body sprue with the better proportions and new backpack connector.
I think Mk2 Breachers would be lovely to see. Even being limited to 5 body poses like the Mk6s wouldn't be much of a hassle, since by their nature breachers would look great in a uniform, largely static shield wall
Mr_Rose wrote: I see they merged the three Thanatar entries into one - could that be the sign of a single kit with options to make all three primary classes?
Did they sell enough thanatars to justify a plastic kit?
Since the only difference is the weapon loadout and unit composition, it would make sense to agglomerate the profiles tbh.
Maybe it'll be the same thing as with legion land raiders where you can add a single achillies among a squadron?
From the leaked playtest PDF, the Thanatar lost one of its classes. So a plastic kit with 2 guns and an extra arm/fist sprue does not seem totally improbable.
It would have made way more sens for the Heresy Armor to be the lunchpad of the Heresy 2, but they went with the more recognisable MK6 instead.
Still, the 5th has been sorely missing from the plastic line for a while now (well, forever).
Mr_Rose wrote: I see they merged the three Thanatar entries into one - could that be the sign of a single kit with options to make all three primary classes?
Did they sell enough thanatars to justify a plastic kit?
Since the only difference is the weapon loadout and unit composition, it would make sense to agglomerate the profiles tbh.
Maybe it'll be the same thing as with legion land raiders where you can add a single achillies among a squadron?
From the leaked playtest PDF, the Thanatar lost one of its classes. So a plastic kit with 2 guns and an extra arm/fist sprue does not seem totally improbable.
Mr_Rose wrote: I see they merged the three Thanatar entries into one - could that be the sign of a single kit with options to make all three primary classes?
Did they sell enough thanatars to justify a plastic kit?
Since the only difference is the weapon loadout and unit composition, it would make sense to agglomerate the profiles tbh.
Maybe it'll be the same thing as with legion land raiders where you can add a single achillies among a squadron?
Not sure if they sold enough, but I did buy three of them. I will happily get 3 more in plastic if/when they come out.
It would have made way more sens for the Heresy Armor to be the lunchpad of the Heresy 2, but they went with the more recognisable MK6 instead.
Still, the 5th has been sorely missing from the plastic line for a while now (well, forever).
No rumors on any Marks. We're probably going to see MkVI Assault Marines before then (and maybe bikes too, but that's more me speculating since the current kit is an upgrade kit plus the old Space Marine bike kit).
We know the Leviathan, Contemptor, Proteus Land Raider, and Sicaran have been shown off by GW and the Predator is obvious due to the slew of new weapon options it has. That'll fill out people's armored pool.
But we really need to get assault marines with jump packs out so that half the legions can finish filling out their troop slots.
Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Sons of Horus, Raven Guard, Emperor's Children, really any legion can use assault marines but many of them rely on them for proper army build and I am not going to touch those resin models.
Current resin mark 4 assault marines with jump packs, bolt pistols, and chainswords, with zero other upgrades, is 64 dollars for 5 of them. (12+ dollars per marine)
Even if GW sells assault marines at 60 bucks for 10, that'll be doubling the value. (6 dollars per marine)
If they sell blocks of 20 despoiler marines for 80 and then have a 'jump pack and special weapon' upgrade kit for 42 bucks, it'll still be roughly 6 dollars per marine.
At this point a Melee squad seems to be a no-brainer. One for each Mk. Options for jump packs and that way you cover Despoiler, Assault and any number of Legion centric squads. Plus gives you scope for customising plastic HQ's.
They'd even be able to cut costs down by doing a generic-ish special weapons sprue much like what they've done with the tank command/weapon frame.
No, I don't think anyone is necessarily doubting that we'll get them, it's a logical next step for infantry units. It's more just that there hasn't been rumours of them yet and there's plenty of desire for proper plastic assault squads.
Mr_Rose wrote: I see they merged the three Thanatar entries into one - could that be the sign of a single kit with options to make all three primary classes?
Did they sell enough thanatars to justify a plastic kit?
Since the only difference is the weapon loadout and unit composition, it would make sense to agglomerate the profiles tbh.
Maybe it'll be the same thing as with legion land raiders where you can add a single achillies among a squadron?
From the leaked playtest PDF, the Thanatar lost one of its classes. So a plastic kit with 2 guns and an extra arm/fist sprue does not seem totally improbable.
What?!? Which one?!? Cynis or Calix?
The Cynis has been removed (at least in this playtest PDF). Like HBMC said, most likely since they did not make a model for it.
Mr_Rose wrote: I see they merged the three Thanatar entries into one - could that be the sign of a single kit with options to make all three primary classes?
Did they sell enough thanatars to justify a plastic kit?
Since the only difference is the weapon loadout and unit composition, it would make sense to agglomerate the profiles tbh.
Maybe it'll be the same thing as with legion land raiders where you can add a single achillies among a squadron?
From the leaked playtest PDF, the Thanatar lost one of its classes. So a plastic kit with 2 guns and an extra arm/fist sprue does not seem totally improbable.
What?!? Which one?!? Cynis or Calix?
The Cynis has been removed (at least in this playtest PDF). Like HBMC said, most likely since they did not make a model for it.
I'm a little perturbed by the comment about them being released later this year. Considering that there are eighteen legions to get through, which poor sod is going to be waiting until the end of the year just for their upgrade kit?
I really thought GW might have managed to make sure this is all ready to go like uh... now? I'm already getting itchy feet waiting for the Mark IV to return, and drawing up plans for alternate summer projects if they're not in stock soon.
Eiríkr wrote: I'm a little perturbed by the comment about them being released later this year. Considering that there are eighteen legions to get through, which poor sod is going to be waiting until the end of the year just for their upgrade kit?
Can't wait to see the Word Bearers and Night Lords. It's a shame they're dragging this out though. There are so many legions and it's not like its a guarantee they'll reveal more upgrade sprues next week.
Does anyone have that old HH "leak" where they listed off the upgrade sprues? It was only a handful of legions and it would be interesting to see if the ones so far match up
Can't help but feel the GW approach of dropping a box set and then not having the extra stuff ready for months isn't a great way of running things. You can't really capitalise on the initial excitement of the big release if you have pretty much nothing to sell people after that. Doesn't seem a great way of gaining new players and keeping them
BigOscar wrote: Can't help but feel the GW approach of dropping a box set and then not having the extra stuff ready for months isn't a great way of running things. You can't really capitalise on the initial excitement of the big release if you have pretty much nothing to sell people after that. Doesn't seem a great way of gaining new players and keeping them
At least heads and shoulders are very easy to leave off models to add later.
I think he is trying to strike a balance between releasing things for hh and destroying people's budgets. 40k just got the csm book, sigmar got a couple books and vanguard boxes, necromunda got the cargo truck and squats. Paints are going for preorder this week. I can see another Heresy wave after that, say the spartan and contemptor on their own with the rest of the heavy weapon sets and maybe the sicaran.
Thanks! You have some mighty conversion work in your gallery, sir. Particularly the mk5 with additional panels - nice nod to other imperial vehicle design like the uparmoured sentinel.
BigOscar wrote: Can't help but feel the GW approach of dropping a box set and then not having the extra stuff ready for months isn't a great way of running things. You can't really capitalise on the initial excitement of the big release if you have pretty much nothing to sell people after that. Doesn't seem a great way of gaining new players and keeping them
At least heads and shoulders are very easy to leave off models to add later.
I think he is trying to strike a balance between releasing things for hh and destroying people's budgets. 40k just got the csm book, sigmar got a couple books and vanguard boxes, necromunda got the cargo truck and squats. Paints are going for preorder this week. I can see another Heresy wave after that, say the spartan and contemptor on their own with the rest of the heavy weapon sets and maybe the sicaran.
Expecting people to not put heads on their models for a few months in a new game you want them to get excited about playing seems like a poor strategy though tbh.
I get the argument for too much at once, but if you are essentially trying to kickstart interest in a new game(sort of new anyway) then you really need to grab people's attention and them let them use that initial excitement to carry on getting invested. The box set has grabbed people's attention, but there is nothing there to capitalise on that initial excitement. By the time enough stuff to have an interesting army is released, most of these starter boxes will be gathering dust in people's cupboards
BigOscar wrote: Can't help but feel the GW approach of dropping a box set and then not having the extra stuff ready for months isn't a great way of running things. You can't really capitalise on the initial excitement of the big release if you have pretty much nothing to sell people after that. Doesn't seem a great way of gaining new players and keeping them
At least heads and shoulders are very easy to leave off models to add later.
I think he is trying to strike a balance between releasing things for hh and destroying people's budgets. 40k just got the csm book, sigmar got a couple books and vanguard boxes, necromunda got the cargo truck and squats. Paints are going for preorder this week. I can see another Heresy wave after that, say the spartan and contemptor on their own with the rest of the heavy weapon sets and maybe the sicaran.
Expecting people to not put heads on their models for a few months in a new game you want them to get excited about playing seems like a poor strategy though tbh.
I get the argument for too much at once, but if you are essentially trying to kickstart interest in a new game(sort of new anyway) then you really need to grab people's attention and them let them use that initial excitement to carry on getting invested. The box set has grabbed people's attention, but there is nothing there to capitalise on that initial excitement. By the time enough stuff to have an interesting army is released, most of these starter boxes will be gathering dust in people's cupboards
Exactly my problem, I am waiting for the multipart contemptor to get those decorated front-plates so can't build that yet and I also have to wait for the other two heavy weapon sets to build all my tacticals
Seeing people posting their several hundred dollar hauls for HH v2. I'd say GW successfully captured attention without needing everything released all at once.
Eiríkr wrote: I'm a little perturbed by the comment about them being released later this year. Considering that there are eighteen legions to get through, which poor sod is going to be waiting until the end of the year just for their upgrade kit?
I really thought GW might have managed to make sure this is all ready to go like uh... now? I'm already getting itchy feet waiting for the Mark IV to return, and drawing up plans for alternate summer projects if they're not in stock soon.
Four legion shoulder pads per month. So... more than four months of waiting time until everybody has received their goods. It´s pretty bad to be honest.
Eiríkr wrote: I'm a little perturbed by the comment about them being released later this year. Considering that there are eighteen legions to get through, which poor sod is going to be waiting until the end of the year just for their upgrade kit?
I really thought GW might have managed to make sure this is all ready to go like uh... now? I'm already getting itchy feet waiting for the Mark IV to return, and drawing up plans for alternate summer projects if they're not in stock soon.
Four legion shoulder pads per month. So... more than four months of waiting time until everybody has received their goods. It´s pretty bad to be honest.
Considering how slow 30k stuff released in the past, this is speed-of-light.
These also aren't necessary for anyone to start playing. I personally prefer transfers, because they're easier to apply than painting molded shoulder pads.
Immaculate! These are the first upgrade heads for the new MKVI kit which actually look like they honour the original design language of the corvus armour! Someone gets it. These are making me legion jealous, what a bunch of great looking helms.
BrotherGecko wrote: Wait are not the helmets just the current ones repackaged for 10 man squads? They are still resin. Just buy the current unrebox ones.
This was my thought as well. I don't think any of this stuff is new, as far as I can tell. FW is currently selling lots of these kinds of upgrade kits.
BrotherGecko wrote: Wait are not the helmets just the current ones repackaged for 10 man squads? They are still resin. Just buy the current unrebox ones.
Not the same, but one of the originals is similar to two of the new ones:
The new ones are more similar to the legion metal head, and all three are more clearly modified Mk VIs.
Which is funny, because in that regard they are the best so far, and IWs kinda hate the mark
Eiríkr wrote: I'm a little perturbed by the comment about them being released later this year. Considering that there are eighteen legions to get through, which poor sod is going to be waiting until the end of the year just for their upgrade kit?
Oh, easy answer. I am.
Same. I may convert/kitbash one squad with some leftover MkIII, though, to get a shattered legion look.
BrotherGecko wrote: Wait are not the helmets just the current ones repackaged for 10 man squads? They are still resin. Just buy the current unrebox ones.
Not the same, but one of the originals is similar to two of the new ones:
The new ones are more similar to the legion metal head, and all three are more clearly modified Mk VIs.
Which is funny, because in that regard they are the best so far, and IWs kinda hate the mark
I really wish they'd taken the opportunity to do an unhelmeted head with a mask for folks who are a big fan of Barabas Dantioch.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Once again, the Dark Angel's head is noticeably DA. Why can't the SoH, IF, or IW get bare heads that are also recognizably their legion?
Are the same sprues used in both the Legion MKVI Tactical Squad (that is now available separately) and the Age of Darkness Box Set - hoping to get a set and run them as 40k Tactical Squad with a few mods
Don't mind them. Hopefully they decide to pair Lucius with EC upgrades.
Beaker07 wrote: Are the same sprues used in both the Legion MKVI Tactical Squad (that is now available separately) and the Age of Darkness Box Set - hoping to get a set and run them as 40k Tactical Squad with a few mods
Weird release order for the upgrades. It’s almost in order but skipping the Emperors Children for whatever reason. If they’re gonna drip feed them out like this, legion order would at least mean you have some idea of the waiting time.
ImAGeek wrote: Weird release order for the upgrades. It’s almost in order but skipping the Emperors Children for whatever reason. If they’re gonna drip feed them out like this, legion order would at least mean you have some idea of the waiting time.
It is a bit strange - maybe they just feel a bit bad for Iron Warriors because they have the been the most neglected Legion under Forgeworld and they generally haven't been portrayed in MK VI in the past, or at least traditionally Beakie MK VI.
ImAGeek wrote: Weird release order for the upgrades. It’s almost in order but skipping the Emperors Children for whatever reason. If they’re gonna drip feed them out like this, legion order would at least mean you have some idea of the waiting time.
It is a bit strange - maybe they just feel a bit bad for Iron Warriors because they have the been the most neglected Legion under Forgeworld and they generally haven't been portrayed in MK VI in the past, or at least traditionally Beakie MK VI.
Stranger still, because their new book clearly states "the Iron Warriors famously rejected the pattern in favor of heavier armour" ^^
ImAGeek wrote: Weird release order for the upgrades. It’s almost in order but skipping the Emperors Children for whatever reason. If they’re gonna drip feed them out like this, legion order would at least mean you have some idea of the waiting time.
It is a bit strange - maybe they just feel a bit bad for Iron Warriors because they have the been the most neglected Legion under Forgeworld and they generally haven't been portrayed in MK VI in the past, or at least traditionally Beakie MK VI.
Stranger still, because their new book clearly states "the Iron Warriors famously rejected the pattern in favor of heavier armour" ^^
But the new heads do certainly look cool.
Yeah, I'm certain you could fit a couple squads in your army (like your fantastically painted ones), as I'm sure they would make use of it with their rapid recruitment and the messed up supply lines later in the Heresy - but everything I've read about the Iron Warriors seems to indicate they do not like MK VI and it was them and the Salamanders who first got to test it and were not fans at all.
ImAGeek wrote: Weird release order for the upgrades. It’s almost in order but skipping the Emperors Children for whatever reason. If they’re gonna drip feed them out like this, legion order would at least mean you have some idea of the waiting time.
It is a bit strange - maybe they just feel a bit bad for Iron Warriors because they have the been the most neglected Legion under Forgeworld and they generally haven't been portrayed in MK VI in the past, or at least traditionally Beakie MK VI.
Stranger still, because their new book clearly states "the Iron Warriors famously rejected the pattern in favor of heavier armour" ^^
But the new heads do certainly look cool.
Yeah, I'm certain you could fit a couple squads in your army (like your fantastically painted ones), as I'm sure they would make use of it with their rapid recruitment and the messed up supply lines later in the Heresy - but everything I've read about the Iron Warriors seems to indicate they do not like MK VI and it was them and the Salamanders who first got to test it and were not fans at all.
But yes, I love the heads - they are super nice!
I thought it was the Raven Guard that tested the MK VI, hence the name Corvus Armor
ImAGeek wrote: Weird release order for the upgrades. It’s almost in order but skipping the Emperors Children for whatever reason. If they’re gonna drip feed them out like this, legion order would at least mean you have some idea of the waiting time.
It is a bit strange - maybe they just feel a bit bad for Iron Warriors because they have the been the most neglected Legion under Forgeworld and they generally haven't been portrayed in MK VI in the past, or at least traditionally Beakie MK VI.
Stranger still, because their new book clearly states "the Iron Warriors famously rejected the pattern in favor of heavier armour" ^^
But the new heads do certainly look cool.
Yeah, I'm certain you could fit a couple squads in your army (like your fantastically painted ones), as I'm sure they would make use of it with their rapid recruitment and the messed up supply lines later in the Heresy - but everything I've read about the Iron Warriors seems to indicate they do not like MK VI and it was them and the Salamanders who first got to test it and were not fans at all.
But yes, I love the heads - they are super nice!
I thought it was the Raven Guard that tested the MK VI, hence the name Corvus Armor
Iron Warriors had it first, hated the prototype because their preferred manner of warfare suites heavier armour, so Perturabo dumped it on Corax who tested it, offered improvements to the Mechanicum who dubbed it Corvus Armour and then it got approved for mass distribution shortly before the Heresy started so a few legions had it at the start (Raven Guard, Alpha Legion), others got it from supply caches or looting it off the dead as the Heresy went on, but MkV was also developped as a stop gap to deal with the broken supply lines and lack of enough replacement suites to go around.
At least that's how I understand it until something gets changed again.
ImAGeek wrote: Weird release order for the upgrades. It’s almost in order but skipping the Emperors Children for whatever reason. If they’re gonna drip feed them out like this, legion order would at least mean you have some idea of the waiting time.
It is a bit strange - maybe they just feel a bit bad for Iron Warriors because they have the been the most neglected Legion under Forgeworld and they generally haven't been portrayed in MK VI in the past, or at least traditionally Beakie MK VI.
Stranger still, because their new book clearly states "the Iron Warriors famously rejected the pattern in favor of heavier armour" ^^
But the new heads do certainly look cool.
Yeah, I'm certain you could fit a couple squads in your army (like your fantastically painted ones), as I'm sure they would make use of it with their rapid recruitment and the messed up supply lines later in the Heresy - but everything I've read about the Iron Warriors seems to indicate they do not like MK VI and it was them and the Salamanders who first got to test it and were not fans at all.
But yes, I love the heads - they are super nice!
I thought it was the Raven Guard that tested the MK VI, hence the name Corvus Armor
Iron Warriors had it first, hated the prototype because their preferred manner of warfare suites heavier armour, so Perturabo dumped it on Corax who tested it, offered improvements to the Mechanicum who dubbed it Corvus Armour and then it got approved for mass distribution shortly before the Heresy started so a few legions had it at the start (Raven Guard, Alpha Legion), others got it from supply caches or looting it off the dead as the Heresy went on, but MkV was also developped as a stop gap to deal with the broken supply lines and lack of enough replacement suites to go around.
At least that's how I understand it until something gets changed again.
Mk. V was always a retroactive designation but precisely when the first suits of that type started to appear has always been a bit wobbly. I figure it will be re-imagined as a late-crusade compromise that originated with the more distant and detached crusade elements then got spread as the Heresy turbo-screwed everyone’s supply lines.
Hey look it's July and all the PDFs are here. Who'd have thought they'd stick to the schedule...
Sweet Jesus, it's a 104-page document. I think this might be literally everything that got cut.
Well I'm happy with it - Land Raider Achilles, Castra Ferrum Dreadnoughts & Terminator Indomitus Squads! (Although the rules for the Indomitus are a bit funky)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I thought this might interest some folks
In the previous edition of the Horus Heresy, we have presented rules for the Knights-Errant and Blackshields. This PDF provides
rules for several unique characters, but does not contain the full rules for these iconic factions of the Age of Darkness. Instead
both the Blackshields and Knights-Errant will be presented as Factions with complete rules in a forthcoming Warhammer: The
Horus Heresy – Age of Darkness publication.
All Army List Profiles for the Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Age of Darkness range are divided into two categories: Core
units and Expanded units. All of the units in this PDF are ‘Expanded’ units. These represent many of the little-known, rarified
units that were part of the Legiones Astartes during the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy that may not have official
miniatures and instead offer the collector an opportunity to convert their own interpretations.
Both ‘Core’ and ‘Expanded’ types of unit may be freely used in any Horus Heresy battle, and this category does not affect their
availability as part of an army or Detachment or the rules for their use during a battle.
As new units and models are released, their Army List Profiles will clearly state if those units are Core or Expanded units, and
future publications may shift the category of a given unit, with any such changes clearly noted in the unit’s Army List Profile.
Missing some options for fortifications like the battle cannon vengeance battery and quake cannon aquilla strongpoint, and some entries refer to Massive blast 5", which should either be large or 7".
It would be nice if they threw in the land raider excelsior as an option, if the hammerfall bunker of all things got included.
Minotaur tanks have had a bit of an upgrade and downgrade. Lost their flare shield and their cannon is a lot less effective but they're now Heavy Support
Gert wrote: Hey look it's July and all the PDFs are here. Who'd have thought they'd stick to the schedule...
Sweet Jesus, it's a 104-page document. I think this might be literally everything that got cut.
Well, not Daemons of the Ruinstorm or Cults & Militia... which were sort of implied to be concurrent with initial release and not July.
Weren't marines always able to take one LR achillies as part of a legion land raider squadron entry?
The wow i'm seeing with it is you can take squadrons of three per HS slot
oh, and the achillies-alpha has had 'enhanced ferromantic rites' removed and the 'normal' achillies has had it's points increased.
Indomitus Terminators, Castaferrum Dreads, Caestus Assault Ram, Std Whirlwinds and most importantly for me, Tarantulas are back! That covers basically all the core units of my 30K/40K army I planned on fielding for 30K.
Unexpected delights for sure. And these are not even "Legends" rules as such. Thanks, Andy Hoare
Now I need a Deimos Rhino chassis to make a Std. Whirlwind out of..
All Army List Profiles for the Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Age of Darkness range are divided into two categories: Core
units and Expanded units. All of the units in this PDF are ‘Expanded’ units. These represent many of the little-known, rarified
units that were part of the Legiones Astartes during the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy that may not have official
miniatures and instead offer the collector an opportunity to convert their own interpretations.
Both ‘Core’ and ‘Expanded’ types of unit may be freely used in any Horus Heresy battle, and this category does not affect their
availability as part of an army or Detachment or the rules for their use during a battle.
As new units and models are released, their Army List Profiles will clearly state if those units are Core or Expanded units, and
future publications may shift the category of a given unit, with any such changes clearly noted in the unit’s Army List Profile.
This very much feels like how legends should have been done.
Gert wrote: The Excelsior has post-Heresy weaponry though, whereas the Hammerfall has weapons that existed during the Heresy. That's why it won't be in there.
Just the grav cannon, and FW made the grav imploder option in HH 1.0 to represent 40k style grav weapons in addition to the 30k graviton weapons.
Rihgu wrote: Well, not Daemons of the Ruinstorm or Cults & Militia... which were sort of implied to be concurrent with initial release and not July.
Implied where though? The roadmap had PDFs from now until October and to my recollection, it didn't say when C&M + Ruinstorm Daemons were coming out. It was inferred that the Legacies and Exemplary Battles PDFs would be out alongside the Legion books and IMO two weeks into the full release of the game isn't bad timing to release additional materials. If Mechanicum and the various other factions are also getting Legacy PDFs then it would be safe to assume they will be out alongside those releases.
All the armies for HH that currently exist will be out in time for the WHW event in November. Is it irritating? A little bit but at the same time to be completely expected and the fact we know that all the HH armies will be out before the end of the year is better than anything we've had from FW (or even GW) in the past.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Just the grav cannon, and FW made the grav imploder option in HH 1.0 to represent 40k style grav weapons in addition to the 30k graviton weapons.
Looks like a very solid PDF, and delivered in a timely fashion after the Age of Darkness release. Can't complain. Hopefully the Liber Mechanicum and Liber Imperium will be followed by similar releases for whatever units won't get published in those books.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Just the grav cannon, and FW made the grav imploder option in HH 1.0 to represent 40k style grav weapons in addition to the 30k graviton weapons.
The Graviton Imploder being this?
Spoiler:
A big mortar type of weapon?
Or this:
Spoiler:
The Graviton Imploder isn't the 40k Grav Cannons.
Rules wise, it was.
From the SM codex,
Grav gun was 18" S* AP2 salvo 2/3 concussive, graviton (wound on a roll equal to targets save, or a 6 otherwise)
Grav Cannon was 24" S* AP2 salvo 3/5 concussive, graviton
From the Mechanicum red book
Grav Imploder was 18" S* AP2 salvo 2/4 concussive, graviton
The other grav weapons in HH were blast, with the graviton pulse (target rolls equal or under strength to avoid, and the marker is left for a turn as difficult and dangerous terrain)
Boringstuff wrote: Huh, I thought that when I swung by the thread I would see everyone hating on the IW heads like I was... Interesting.
I mean I'm not a huge fan of them, but I'm not super bothered by them either. IW are my second favorite legion, but they have a good variety of head options out there (3rd party, 3d prints, etc).
Hammerfall bunker does make sense and fit into the larger scale of the Heresy. Spartans vs Land Raiders, Stormbirds vs Thunderhawks, Hammerfall Bunkers vs Deathstorm Drop Pods
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm just surprised to see it at all.
Yeah same. It's not that it's design screams 'Primaris', but there are a few tells. The flamethrower options are identical to the Black Templar Pyreblasters and some of the angles resemble more the smooth surfaces of the Repulsor rather than the clunkier deimos-pattern vehicles.
But hey, a neat addition for people that care for it. At only BS 2 it's not going to be doing a ton of damage.
Lots of cool stuff, but I'm heartbroken that there's no profile for the Luperci. I am very happy that Indomitus Terminators have rules, as those are the ones I want to use, though I'm very disappointed that there are no rules for an Indomitus praetor or other HQ.
Looks like a lot of the statblocks are unplayably bad and overcosted, and contain numerous inconsistencies that can only be attributed to either open malice or total incompetence. The Stormlord has somehow stopped being open-topped, for example.
My earlier positive appraisal of the PDF was clearly a mistake, this is more in line what I expect from GW - a farcical, abject failure.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Is it really that bad? I'm new to Heresy so I don't quite understand all of the stats.
Yes. some mistakes are clearly copy paste no brainers.
for example Nominus Rhy'tan has a WS and BS of 4, 3 wounds and his power maul is unwieldy all for 215 points
Ash mantle is 315pts for.... god knows what reason for a t6 model
The Excindio class battle autometa is nearly 420pts once equipped for a unit that is likely to turn on you in the game... that is Knight costs in 1.0 its madness.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Is it really that bad? I'm new to Heresy so I don't quite understand all of the stats.
Yes. some mistakes are clearly copy paste no brainers.
for example Nominus Rhy'tan has a WS and BS of 4, 3 wounds and his power maul is unwieldy all for 215 points
Ash mantle is 315pts for.... god knows what reason for a t6 model
The Excindio class battle autometa is nearly 420pts once equipped for a unit that is likely to turn on you in the game... that is Knight costs in 1.0 its madness.
Ok, that makes sense, and yeah, that doesn't make any sense. The only unit that currently interests me right now is the Indomitus Terminator one. As for as I can tell, nothing looks too bad.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Is it really that bad? I'm new to Heresy so I don't quite understand all of the stats.
Having looked through it, yeah, it's pretty bad in spots. Just as an example,tThe Salamander Chaplain who was in charge of of defending Nocturn and waking up the dreadnoughts? The man is only WS 4. 4! On a Praetor-Equivalent character, who have 6 (if I recall correctly). And his thunderhammer? The one crafted for him personally by Vulkan? It's only +2, instead of X2, and lacks any other effect, not even Sunder like the base Thunder hammer.
And that's just one example, to mention another, the Salamanders Dreadnought Character? The one in 1.0 that was Av 15, the highest possible in the game? It's Toughness 6 now. Thats it. No other special rules at all beyond the standard dread rules and a way to take him as warlord and force him into a trait.
To anyone who's game has arrived and knows the scale/fittings, would the Blood Angels Primaris upgrade sprue shoulder pads fit on the beaky Marines from the box? As that'd be pretty convenient if so
This is the address that you can email any issues you spot within the document. I'd recommend the community take the time to discuss it and everyone send them similar lists to show that we do care about these issues. As the document is a PDF, they'll be able to make changes easily and at next to no cost, improving the chances they'll do something.
Gert wrote: Yes because all Space Marine shoulder pads are interchangeable across every single Space Marine in Power Armour.
Good, I suspected as much but just wanted to check given all the furore over the special weapons sprue and it's lack of compatibility. £5 of ebay for 9 shoulder pads and a couple of heads seems a lot better than £15 for the Forge World resin ones.
Gert wrote: Yes because all Space Marine shoulder pads are interchangeable across every single Space Marine in Power Armour.
While I would personally agree with this, I've heard that others are able to clearly notice differences between the pauldrons or different armor types. Regardless, if someone ever complained to me about this, I'd just tell that that it's Mark V armor and that the pads are from some mark of armor that was discarded before going into full production.
BigOscar wrote: To anyone who's game has arrived and knows the scale/fittings, would the Blood Angels Primaris upgrade sprue shoulder pads fit on the beaky Marines from the box? As that'd be pretty convenient if so
Yes, like people have said, the power armour shoulder pads are the same size. However note that only six of the shoulder pads on the sprue are normal PA shoulder pads, the other three are slightly bigger gravis shoulder pads (those fit on terminators too.)
ArcaneHorror wrote: While I would personally agree with this, I've heard that others are able to clearly notice differences between the pauldrons or different armor types. Regardless, if someone ever complained to me about this, I'd just tell that that it's Mark V armor and that the pads are from some mark of armor that was discarded before going into full production.
What? Dude the parts are interchangeable because all the contact points are the same size. You can use FW upgrades, Firstborn upgrades, or Primaris upgrades on any PA Marine shoulder and they will all fit.
BigOscar wrote: To anyone who's game has arrived and knows the scale/fittings, would the Blood Angels Primaris upgrade sprue shoulder pads fit on the beaky Marines from the box? As that'd be pretty convenient if so
Yes, like people have said, the power armour shoulder pads are the same size. However note that only six of the shoulder pads on the sprue are normal PA shoulder pads, the other three are slightly bigger gravis shoulder pads (those fit on terminators too.)
Interesting, I could see they were slightly different but it was hard to tell exactly how. I'm sure I'll find a use for them. (same for the random chainsword and bolt pistol, they'll find a home somewhere)
ArcaneHorror wrote: While I would personally agree with this, I've heard that others are able to clearly notice differences between the pauldrons or different armor types. Regardless, if someone ever complained to me about this, I'd just tell that that it's Mark V armor and that the pads are from some mark of armor that was discarded before going into full production.
What? Dude the parts are interchangeable because all the contact points are the same size. You can use FW upgrades, Firstborn upgrades, or Primaris upgrades on any PA Marine shoulder and they will all fit.
I know that. All I'm saying is that some people out there, not including myself, care about what mark different pauldrons are from. I was just giving something someone could say if they run into one of those person's.
Don't get me started - I Really got back into 40K in the early 2010's when Alan was releasing his Badab War series from Forge World . The genius of those Early Pre Heresy Forge World Campaign Books lay in making a rather silly over the top cartoon Universe into something super Hard , Dark and Grim . Since his Death - GW have opted for more of the Cartoon Style again and it looks more like a Childs game/universe again ...Sad
keas66 wrote: Don't get me started - I Really got back into 40K in the early 2010's when Alan was releasing his Badab War series from Forge World . The genius of those Early Pre Heresy Forge World Campaign Books lay in making a rather silly over the top cartoon Universe into something super Hard , Dark and Grim . Since his Death - GW have opted for more of the Cartoon Style again and it looks more like a Childs game/universe again ...Sad
40k went "dark" in 3rd. The only "cartoony" aspect is the 'Eavy Metal team simplifying their paint style to make the game more accessible to new players.
Well opinions differ I guess ( at least mine do ) - I find their entire graphical style now a lot "brighter" now both online/webpages and in white dwarf/ rulebooks . I find the main WH40K literary style also a little brighter than the Books I'm speaking of . Once can't read through say the Siege of Vraks Series and really compare the utter nihilsm and despair that comes out in those texts to anything the main WH40K rulebook authors now produce - In my opinion of course . I really only collected the Forge World Imperial Armor series and then The Horus Heresy Campaign Series as my primary interest in things WH40'ish - the mainstream WH40 stuff I picked up as well but mainly just to be a completist . Sad if they are not going to complete the Campaign Series up to the Siege of Terra - but maybe they want to keep it light , refreshing and breezy - not too many complicated words . The Golden Era of Forge World has passed ?
9th ed codexes have gotten a lot darker in the art department and don't confuse the advertisement images drawn for Warcom for being actual depictions of the setting proper.
Also, making the data sheet pages dark text on a light background so that actual humans can read them is not the same as the setting becoming “lighter.”
So the epub version of the AoD rulebook finally released, have been reading it. I really like the difference in tone compared to 40K publications - no redundant, edgy adjectives in sight! Feels like the HH rulebook is written to adults instead of 5 year olds with zero attention span.
For anyone interested to know, the epub version has full search capability as well as comprehensive indexing. Very easy to find anything. Top marks! Now if GW could also release the Liber books as epubs, that would be great.
A cartoony warhammer style is fine as long as the cartoon is Judge Dredd
While I agree 40k and 30k should be pretty grim, that really dark and cynical humor is essential too.
My first 40k army was Space Wolves. I really love the space wolves. But honestly, I chose them because they were the most outrageous over the top guys around and always gave me some chuckles.
In 30k, SW does nothing for me, they are just dull. A fine example of to much grit without the dark humor.
tauist wrote: So the epub version of the AoD rulebook finally released, have been reading it. I really like the difference in tone compared to 40K publications - no redundant, edgy adjectives in sight! Feels like the HH rulebook is written to adults instead of 5 year olds with zero attention span.
HH was always written that way, a (biased) historical retelling of events pieced together years after the events took place.
Fayric wrote: A cartoony warhammer style is fine as long as the cartoon is Judge Dredd
While I agree 40k and 30k should be pretty grim, that really dark and cynical humor is essential too.
My first 40k army was Space Wolves. I really love the space wolves. But honestly, I chose them because they were the most outrageous over the top guys around and always gave me some chuckles.
In 30k, SW does nothing for me, they are just dull. A fine example of to much grit without the dark humor.
My first 40k army was also Space Wolves, but I started them in 2nd edition when they were only a little bit silly and pretty quickly got sick of the wolf-everything that came in and they started bringing packs of wolves and riding wolves and murderface showed up.
I think 30k Space Wolves were written for people like me, who aren't looking for super serious Space Wolves but also aren't into the cartoon they have become.
A bit off topic but does anyone know what part A14 (from the vehicle accessories sprue) is for?
It looks a lot like A15 which is the pintle heavy weapon mount and connects to the rim of the top hatch (A4 or A5) but it just doesn’t sit right.
Has anyone found a kit where it gets used yet or is this future proofing?
Mr_Rose wrote: A bit off topic but does anyone know what part A14 (from the vehicle accessories sprue) is for?
It looks a lot like A15 which is the pintle heavy weapon mount and connects to the rim of the top hatch (A4 or A5) but it just doesn’t sit right.
Has anyone found a kit where it gets used yet or is this future proofing?
According to my Kratos instructions, A14 is for the pintle MultiMelta, Heavy Bolter, and Heavy Flamer.
Mr_Rose wrote: A bit off topic but does anyone know what part A14 (from the vehicle accessories sprue) is for?
It looks a lot like A15 which is the pintle heavy weapon mount and connects to the rim of the top hatch (A4 or A5) but it just doesn’t sit right.
Has anyone found a kit where it gets used yet or is this future proofing?
According to my Kratos instructions, A14 is for the pintle MultiMelta, Heavy Bolter, and Heavy Flamer.
Yeah, it's for pintle mounts for copulas that don't use A4 or A5.
Mr_Rose wrote: A bit off topic but does anyone know what part A14 (from the vehicle accessories sprue) is for?
It looks a lot like A15 which is the pintle heavy weapon mount and connects to the rim of the top hatch (A4 or A5) but it just doesn’t sit right.
Has anyone found a kit where it gets used yet or is this future proofing?
According to my Kratos instructions, A14 is for the pintle MultiMelta, Heavy Bolter, and Heavy Flamer.
Yeah, it's for pintle mounts for copulas that don't use A4 or A5.
keas66 wrote: Well opinions differ I guess ( at least mine do ) - I find their entire graphical style now a lot "brighter" now both online/webpages and in white dwarf/ rulebooks . I find the main WH40K literary style also a little brighter than the Books I'm speaking of . Once can't read through say the Siege of Vraks Series and really compare the utter nihilsm and despair that comes out in those texts to anything the main WH40K rulebook authors now produce - In my opinion of course . I really only collected the Forge World Imperial Armor series and then The Horus Heresy Campaign Series as my primary interest in things WH40'ish - the mainstream WH40 stuff I picked up as well but mainly just to be a completist . Sad if they are not going to complete the Campaign Series up to the Siege of Terra - but maybe they want to keep it light , refreshing and breezy - not too many complicated words . The Golden Era of Forge World has passed ?
I miss proper black and white line-art. The current stuff is overly rendered with colour, losing a lot of mood and detail. The little sketches in the current Kill Team books are a step in the right direction.
Anyone want to guess whether GW will scale up stuff like bikes and speeders proportionatly with new crew, or will Mk6 sized crew be crammed in original sized seats?
I reckon they might embiggen them slightly, yes. The old Marine bikes are from mid-2nd edition, only slightly edited sometime in the '00s, when the torso changed from a one-piece to a standard three-part affair with a ball and socket join in the waist. That it hasn't been retired by now rather suggests that the unit itself is really unpopular (Ravenwing possibly notwithstanding, but those guys have their own kit now), so I wouldn't hold my breath for any heresy bikers either.
Snrub wrote: Aside from the fact that they're a reasonably old kit and don't fit scale-wise any more, does anyone have an actual grievance against the bike kit?
Would people be miffed if GW released a plastic outrider Spatha kit that was the same as the FW version?
Honestly I prefer both FW kits to the plastics. I wouldn’t mind having a plastic version of either available though tbh I’d slightly prefer the recon bikes.
Snrub wrote: Aside from the fact that they're a reasonably old kit and don't fit scale-wise any more, does anyone have an actual grievance against the bike kit?
Would people be miffed if GW released a plastic outrider Spatha kit that was the same as the FW version?
The whole lines needs to be updone in Plastic. Anything resin is basically a no buy for me, and from what I've seen interreacting with the newcomers to the HH community with 2E, that opinion is the majority. I think if they want to make the game a mainstream success that they can make good money off of, plastic as much as possible is the only solution.
Snrub wrote: Aside from the fact that they're a reasonably old kit and don't fit scale-wise any more, does anyone have an actual grievance against the bike kit?
Visually, I still prefer it to the Primaris bikes, which don't look remotely functional.
But yeah, it's a basic model but holds up well for its age.
If I had to guess, at least for the average joe:
The cost, the quality of the casts (mold slip, bubbles, shrinkage), ease of working with the material.
Resin is fine. The problem is when talking about GW then resin = FW, or even worse resin = finecast.
FW is expensive, has to be ordered online, for many people it means international shipping, terrible quality control, and frankly recently the actual quality has been poor (I've received FW models with 3D print lines and supports still visible, which to me is utterly unacceptable for the premium product FW pretends to be).
I actually think the MkVI shoulder pads probably should have been done out of resin instead of two piece, but I'll be quite clear in saying that by "resin" I do NOT mean "FW" nor "finecast".
Agamemnon2 wrote: I reckon they might embiggen them slightly, yes. The old Marine bikes are from mid-2nd edition, only slightly edited sometime in the '00s, when the torso changed from a one-piece to a standard three-part affair with a ball and socket join in the waist. That it hasn't been retired by now rather suggests that the unit itself is really unpopular (Ravenwing possibly notwithstanding, but those guys have their own kit now), so I wouldn't hold my breath for any heresy bikers either.
40K battlefield is way too small for bikes to shine. You would need to play Epic and take a bike company to get most out of them.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I reckon they might embiggen them slightly, yes. The old Marine bikes are from mid-2nd edition, only slightly edited sometime in the '00s, when the torso changed from a one-piece to a standard three-part affair with a ball and socket join in the waist. That it hasn't been retired by now rather suggests that the unit itself is really unpopular (Ravenwing possibly notwithstanding, but those guys have their own kit now), so I wouldn't hold my breath for any heresy bikers either.
40K battlefield is way too small for bikes to shine. You would need to play Epic and take a bike company to get most out of them.
Honestly, it's even worse for transports, and vehicles make the game devolve fastly into something more like a parking lot than a battlefield.
Simply put, the current scale of the minis doesn't really work well for the kind of game they want it to be.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I reckon they might embiggen them slightly, yes. The old Marine bikes are from mid-2nd edition, only slightly edited sometime in the '00s, when the torso changed from a one-piece to a standard three-part affair with a ball and socket join in the waist. That it hasn't been retired by now rather suggests that the unit itself is really unpopular (Ravenwing possibly notwithstanding, but those guys have their own kit now), so I wouldn't hold my breath for any heresy bikers either.
40K battlefield is way too small for bikes to shine. You would need to play Epic and take a bike company to get most out of them.
Its also way too small for titans, aircraft, artillery, or even medium to large vehicles. Bikes are fine.
A plastic spatha bike kit would be much appreciated. Building the FW ones is a real pain, using the SM scout bike base with a bunch of resin addons. They could even throw in an attack bike sidepod to the kit if they were feeling generous
Resin is fine. The problem is when talking about GW then resin = FW, or even worse resin = finecast.
FW is expensive, has to be ordered online, for many people it means international shipping, terrible quality control, and frankly recently the actual quality has been poor (I've received FW models with 3D print lines and supports still visible, which to me is utterly unacceptable for the premium product FW pretends to be).
I actually think the MkVI shoulder pads probably should have been done out of resin instead of two piece, but I'll be quite clear in saying that by "resin" I do NOT mean "FW" nor "finecast".
Seconded.
Resin is an awesome material for modelling. Can be, if handled propperly, used for a slew of things, is durable and often if propperly done lighter than plastic (which is a boon if you intend to carry around a horde of models)
The core issue is that FW resin is FW resin, not quite failcast but frankly if the chances are better for quality resin-products if you go to chinacasts or russia casts, or if you really want to be shocked to actual model companies then we have a bit of a (and i mean that very ironically) qualty -price relation issue.
Personal exemple, i own the old R&H command, enforcers and 2 stubber teams, i cleaned all these models and had to bend some very delicate parts, i also had the upgrade sprue for unit commands including an icon that was so full and bad that i couldn't use it. Compare that to say the 70 Anvil industry models i ordered including a slew of weapons and other assorted bits, i cleaned maybee 5 minutes, had no moldlines and could use all the models as intended.
Having handled a fair amount of resin miniatures, mostly for smaller-scale skirmish type games, resin is a very good model for miniatures, as long as it's not being handled by GW or FW.
If I had to guess, at least for the average joe:
The cost, the quality of the casts (mold slip, bubbles, shrinkage), ease of working with the material.
Exactly this, for me. Just way too much for what is - more often than not - additional hassle.
I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
Sabotage! wrote: I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
I recently bit the bullet on a malcador, which is probably my best painted model now, anyways in the gallery of mine there are two pics which show the parts with moldblocks still attached on it...
i required no gak a saw and sandpaper to remove that huge moldblock off the main body which was placed diagonally on the main body...
considering what resin is, that is very annoying..
Sabotage! wrote: I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
I recently bit the bullet on a malcador, which is probably my best painted model now, anyways in the gallery of mine there are two pics which show the parts with moldblocks still attached on it...
i required no gak a saw and sandpaper to remove that huge moldblock off the main body which was placed diagonally on the main body...
considering what resin is, that is very annoying..
Ugh, that is horrible. Looking at it that picture gave me chills! If it’s any consolation the finished tank looks great!
Sabotage! wrote: I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
I recently bit the bullet on a malcador, which is probably my best painted model now, anyways in the gallery of mine there are two pics which show the parts with moldblocks still attached on it...
i required no gak a saw and sandpaper to remove that huge moldblock off the main body which was placed diagonally on the main body...
considering what resin is, that is very annoying..
That doesn't look like much of an issue, couple of seconds with a hack saw and looks like it's in a location where the track unit will cover it, so only need to be filed\sanded to be flat enough to not get in the way of that piece. That's just what I'd expect for a large resin piece like that.
Made the mistake of getting a FW Sicaran a couple years back. Warpage, drippage, mould lines, and excessive gate material. Clean-up took me a few days, and even being patient, dewarping and doing my utter best, it's still got warpage issues and looks like its been through WW3. Needless to say, no more GW resin for me.
Recently 3D printed a Sicaran and had it together in an hour with no muss or fuss. I'd go so far to say if GW had a plastic kit for the Sicaran instead of resin, I would have gotten it in a heartbeat - in fact, I'm planning to get the Kratos next time I get a paycheck.
Kanluwen wrote: friendly reminder, it's a joke to seriously suggest 3D printers as a solution to anything other than you wanting to pirate crap.
To paraphrase an older quote;
Piracy doesn't hurt Games Workshop but I sure wish it did.
Intellectual property is the most absurd concept to ever exist and piracy isn't a real crime except for the most abused of shill house wives - but I wish it was, so it would ruin GW.
I never understood how piracy lost sales. 99% of the people pirating something wouldn't pay the retail price or even the ebay price for it which is why they're pirating it in the first place.
Toofast wrote: I never understood how piracy lost sales. 99% of the people pirating something wouldn't pay the retail price or even the ebay price for it which is why they're pirating it in the first place.
FWs Quality has increased siginificantly since the Dkok range. I have the 30K DG Contemptor, many DG conversion kits and Lotr Orks. They're all on par with the best Resin models on the market (so WGE or ArtelW for me).
The price is insane, though, that is true. And that the price applies to older, often problematic kits as well, makes it even worse.
Toofast wrote: I never understood how piracy lost sales. 99% of the people pirating something wouldn't pay the retail price or even the ebay price for it which is why they're pirating it in the first place.
Cool, so then why do they pirate/3D print it?
Because they're not willing to pay the ludicrously inflated price and give money to a really gakky company?
A resin 3D printer is also an excellent way to give yourself cancer from dangerous and poorly-tested chemicals produced in nameless Chinese factories. Or a great way to start a house fire, if it's a filament printer instead. :-P
Yep, I am in general agreement with this thinking. I don't think it's perfect logic - there are surely cases where pirated product diminishes the sales of or otherwise devalues the official version, but I think the theory in general holds true. (this was a response to toofast).
Damn, if 3D printers are so dangerous I better stop buying from ForgeWorld, I don't want to endanger their employees. Given y'know, they 3D print all their masters.
For me, it's because I am not a hobbiest. I'm primarily a gamer. Secondly, the cost is outrageous for a product that you'll likely have to spend three times as much time fixing due to warps and bubbles and so on. I typically avoid resin if at all possible.
I don't mind working with resin, but I certainly mind the cost of FW products. $120 for a very small land speeder model with limited details? $23 for 5 torsos? Who is paying these prices?
Sabotage! wrote: I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
I recently bit the bullet on a malcador, which is probably my best painted model now, anyways in the gallery of mine there are two pics which show the parts with moldblocks still attached on it...
i required no gak a saw and sandpaper to remove that huge moldblock off the main body which was placed diagonally on the main body...
considering what resin is, that is very annoying..
Ugh, that is horrible. Looking at it that picture gave me chills! If it’s any consolation the finished tank looks great!
That wasn't even the worst part actually, still hate to saw resin for the whole dust aspect.
Sabotage! wrote: I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
I recently bit the bullet on a malcador, which is probably my best painted model now, anyways in the gallery of mine there are two pics which show the parts with moldblocks still attached on it...
i required no gak a saw and sandpaper to remove that huge moldblock off the main body which was placed diagonally on the main body...
considering what resin is, that is very annoying..
That doesn't look like much of an issue, couple of seconds with a hack saw and looks like it's in a location where the track unit will cover it, so only need to be filed\sanded to be flat enough to not get in the way of that piece. That's just what I'd expect for a large resin piece like that.
Oh absolutely but for the price they demand for "rest of the world" category i could expect them to atleast remove that block no?
Alas the worst was fiting the sides into the body, since they were bent but the cake took the tracks, you just get a sprue full off em, and not one schematics to explain to you how much of them you need.
Out of all the FW stuff I've purchased, the only problem I had with a kit was on a set of Salamander doors for my repulsor.assive mold slip across the entire door. Called FW & they sent me out a duplicate of my original order, which included a couple other rhino doors(which was prob a mistake).
This is why people hate on Forge World Resin. I had to fight to get these pieces replaced. The album (not shared) has only grown since. I literally taught myself how to pressure cast so that I can take the 1 out of 10 good casts (my armigers for instance - legs and torsos were a nightmare. I was lucky to get one decent version of each variant) and replace my own bad parts. Because so often, their own production is incapable of successfully delivering a proper product. Like, they do it wrong. I'm an amateur, and can prevent mold slips, warping, etc. without it taking longer to do.
This is why people hate on Forge World Resin. I had to fight to get these pieces replaced. The album (not shared) has only grown since. I literally taught myself how to pressure cast so that I can take the 1 out of 10 good casts (my armigers for instance - legs and torsos were a nightmare. I was lucky to get one decent version of each variant) and replace my own bad parts. Because so often, their own production is incapable of successfully delivering a proper product. Like, they do it wrong. I'm an amateur, and can prevent mold slips, warping, etc. without it taking longer to do.
You know why they continue to get away with it? Because people buy them.
Gert wrote: FW only seems to be an issue for non-Brits with regards to customer service.
Enjoy your independence, ungrateful colonists.
I'm in Australia and I've had reasonably good experience with FW in terms of customer service (FW for us comes from the UK). But fixing a problem after the fact is still secondary to not having the issue in the first place.
I’ve also had good customer service from FW (and even better from GW who in my experience has been nothing short of excellent on that front), but as Skink said they shouldn’t be putting out crappy casts and mold slips when they are charging what they charge for their products.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Suggesting Forge World knowingly ships subpar product to overseas customers out of a racist impulse against the non-British is certainly a novel take.
If they wanted better FW customer service they should have thought about that in 1775.
Gert wrote: FW only seems to be an issue for non-Brits with regards to customer service.
Enjoy your independence, ungrateful colonists.
Suggesting Forge World knowingly ships subpar product to overseas customers out of a racist impulse against the non-British is certainly a novel take.
It's obviously incorrect, purely due to the reason I doubt anyone at FW takes as much as a single look at the product before shipping, judging by the amount of horrible miscasts, missing components and times where they just flat-out shipped the wrong product (which is how several minis got leaked ahead of time).
Kanluwen wrote: friendly reminder, it's a joke to seriously suggest 3D printers as a solution to anything other than you wanting to pirate crap.
Yep, all those people who play indie war games that have no miniature lines that 3D print all their stuff are totally pirating the post-apocalyptic, cyber-punk, fantasy, and sci-if miniatures they 3D print. But that post-apocalyptic scavenger is clearly a rip off of a Chaos Cultist because it has a gas mask and that clockwork automaton is clearly a want to be Stormcast because it has a sword.
Way to belittle a huge section of the hobby, even those who don’t have anything to do with GW, with a very ignorant comment. I don’t think even 3D print and thought that comment was absurd.
I've had good results from FWCS, and I'm here in Texas. Had a terribly warped Demios rear door and some miscast Venatari jet packs. Got them replaced within a couple of week.
This is why people hate on Forge World Resin. I had to fight to get these pieces replaced. The album (not shared) has only grown since. I literally taught myself how to pressure cast so that I can take the 1 out of 10 good casts (my armigers for instance - legs and torsos were a nightmare. I was lucky to get one decent version of each variant) and replace my own bad parts. Because so often, their own production is incapable of successfully delivering a proper product. Like, they do it wrong. I'm an amateur, and can prevent mold slips, warping, etc. without it taking longer to do.
Not sure why but there is an adult 18+ warning on your imgur examples. I know the mold slippage is distressing and I agree that the quality is unacceptable from a supposedly premium resin product line but I don't know if I'd classify it as unsuitable for minors!
This is why people hate on Forge World Resin. I had to fight to get these pieces replaced. The album (not shared) has only grown since. I literally taught myself how to pressure cast so that I can take the 1 out of 10 good casts (my armigers for instance - legs and torsos were a nightmare. I was lucky to get one decent version of each variant) and replace my own bad parts. Because so often, their own production is incapable of successfully delivering a proper product. Like, they do it wrong. I'm an amateur, and can prevent mold slips, warping, etc. without it taking longer to do.
Not sure why but there is an adult 18+ warning on your imgur examples. I know the mold slippage is distressing and I agree that the quality is unacceptable from a supposedly premium resin product line but I don't know if I'd classify it as unsuitable for minors!
Such horrors must be kept from innocent eyes.
(I'm guessing some automatic algorithm decided the fleshy fingers were fleshy... other things)
yeah, over all I've heard nothing but praise for GW's customer service. hell msot people who bash GW harshly will follow with ".. ok I admit they have good CS"
Sabotage! wrote: I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
I recently bit the bullet on a malcador, which is probably my best painted model now, anyways in the gallery of mine there are two pics which show the parts with moldblocks still attached on it...
i required no gak a saw and sandpaper to remove that huge moldblock off the main body which was placed diagonally on the main body...
considering what resin is, that is very annoying..
Ugh, that is horrible. Looking at it that picture gave me chills! If it’s any consolation the finished tank looks great!
That wasn't even the worst part actually, still hate to saw resin for the whole dust aspect.
If you are buying a large resin kit you have to accept that sometimes you will need to cut/file away gates (the parts where the resin is poured into the mold).
A lot of people don't seem to understand that large resin kits are for experienced hobbyists and not really for casual gamers, I guess this is a failling on behalf of Forge World, as it should be clear to the customer what they will be buying before purchase.
Sabotage! wrote: I have to jump on the anti-FW resin train. The stuff I have received has been generally poor quality and needed a ton of work to make serviceable. For the price of the product it should be top notch. Only thing I ever have received from FW that didn't have some sort of defect were 1 Squad of DKoK Engineers (out of nearly 1k points of DKoK), and a few packs of upgrade heads/shoulders. Needless to say I won't buy anything other than upgrades from them, and I really have to like them to do that.
Many other resin miniatures I have dealt with were fantastic. Anvil, Artel W, and many others make miniatures that are amazing quality out of resin. FW should really take note.
I recently bit the bullet on a malcador, which is probably my best painted model now, anyways in the gallery of mine there are two pics which show the parts with moldblocks still attached on it...
i required no gak a saw and sandpaper to remove that huge moldblock off the main body which was placed diagonally on the main body...
considering what resin is, that is very annoying..
That doesn't look like much of an issue, couple of seconds with a hack saw and looks like it's in a location where the track unit will cover it, so only need to be filed\sanded to be flat enough to not get in the way of that piece. That's just what I'd expect for a large resin piece like that.
Oh absolutely but for the price they demand for "rest of the world" category i could expect them to atleast remove that block no?
Alas the worst was fiting the sides into the body, since they were bent but the cake took the tracks, you just get a sprue full off em, and not one schematics to explain to you how much of them you need.
It's a plastic sprue, it was originally for the OOP Leman Russ tank. Not sure why you'd need instructions to stick them in place? I've got three Malcador variants at home and they went together very easily I thought. You even get plenty of leftover track bits in case you make some kind of blunder.
I have been looking at starting Horus Heresy but I have a feeling it will follow the GW regular codex crap. I know right now they did those Liber Astartes and Liber Hereticus but that reminds me of when they came out with a new release of 40k and did those indexes which were only good for like a few months while they released codexes for each army.
Honestly the box set looks like a decent value or starting point but I am still kinda fearing GW will do the GW thing.
Anyone know if they will go the codex route with HH?
At the moment, impossible to know for the long term. It would seem unlikely, given that the roadmap states that they're doing a Liber Mechanicum w/Titans and Knights, Liber Imperium with others to follow. They seem committed to big book style over the codicies. At least for now.
Personally, I think we'll see the Warzone style books for specific legendary battles/campaigns. Sort of how the FW black books went. So more details on those events and maybe some additional rules for missions/certain legion units.
The June White Dwarf article on Zone Mortalis goes so far as to say that there would be a "A more complete and exhaustive Zone Mortalis rules set to be released in future publications." I doubt they'd print that sort of the thing in a Faction Liber. That's campaign/warzone type stuff.
At the moment, impossible to know for the long term. It would seem unlikely, given that the roadmap states that they're doing a Liber Mechanicum w/Titans and Knights, Liber Imperium with others to follow. They seem committed to big book style over the codicies. At least for now.
Personally, I think we'll see the Warzone style books for specific legendary battles/campaigns. Sort of how the FW black books went. So more details on those events and maybe some additional rules for missions/certain legion units.
The June White Dwarf article on Zone Mortalis goes so far as to say that there would be a "A more complete and exhaustive Zone Mortalis rules set to be released in future publications." I doubt they'd print that sort of the thing in a Faction Liber. That's campaign/warzone type stuff.
I feel they're handling it like Middleearth: a nice starter Set, a big rulebook and large army books that give everything you need. After that I'd expect campaign books to follow that add special scenario rules and some new units or updates to existing units because of new weapon options here and there while they're turning the resin range into plastic.
That's an apt comparison actually and so far it does seem to be the method they're going with for 30k. It'll be interesting to see if they continue down that track. It's certainly not one i'm opposed too.
That's an apt comparison actually and so far it does seem to be the method they're going with for 30k. It'll be interesting to see if they continue down that track. It's certainly not one i'm opposed too.
I'm not familar with ME these days but I'm not a fan of the campaign book method of releasing rules. Ends up with rules scattered everywhere and potentially needing several books just for 1 army. It's less egregious when it's done by a company that doesn't charge the Earth for books, but even then I don't find it terribly desirable.
That's an apt comparison actually and so far it does seem to be the method they're going with for 30k. It'll be interesting to see if they continue down that track. It's certainly not one i'm opposed too.
I'm not familar with ME these days but I'm not a fan of the campaign book method of releasing rules. Ends up with rules scattered everywhere and potentially needing several books just for 1 army. It's less egregious when it's done by a company that doesn't charge the Earth for books, but even then I don't find it terribly desirable.
It depends. There are few factions in middle earth whose unit profiles are spread through multiple books (Mordor and Rohan might have that problem especially). But most are good to go with 1 expansion (and these are about two a year, so not really a fast pace). For 30K I'd expect for the short future to see plastic updates before they really push into new stuff. So people might be pretty save with the current army books for quite some time.
The intent of the design of the Middle-earth campaign books seems to be 90% scenarios and campaigns, with the new units/etc that are part of said scenarios/campaigns as an 'appendix' for the matched play/tournament folk. It seems to me as a new entrant into Horus Heresy that this would fit in with the current idea of HH being a narrative/"historical" game, and I would be a huge proponent of, as I primarily play scenarios (especially asymmetric ones).
I've NEVER had an issue with FW Customer Service (it has always been stellar) but especially after dealing with smaller independent Resin casters (Hardcore Minis, Artel W) I really had my eyes opened on what a GOOD resin cast looks like.
FW wasn't any better or worse than Kromlech, or MaxMini, or some others, for anything I ordered, but the detail and quality (and good design) on some other resin casters blows it out of the water. Now, having said that, most of the casters I am praising seem to focus on smaller minis and not huge vehicles, but their detail is just insane. Clearly cast, distinct individual zipper teeth, stitching in scars, etc., plus models with numbers on the base of the feet, and the pegs of the parts, so that you can match stuff up after clipping it off the sprue. Just absurdly nice stuff.
Oddly enough, however, the instructions on their resin models are completely non-existent. I thought FW assembly diagrams were bad until I got models that have none whatsoever and you have to look at their web site and see where they say two parts go together. It's like they took the huge expense of creating B&W assembly sheets and photocopying them and reinvested into high quality resin casting.
angel of death 007 wrote: I have been looking at starting Horus Heresy but I have a feeling it will follow the GW regular codex crap. I know right now they did those Liber Astartes and Liber Hereticus but that reminds me of when they came out with a new release of 40k and did those indexes which were only good for like a few months while they released codexes for each army.
Honestly the box set looks like a decent value or starting point but I am still kinda fearing GW will do the GW thing.
Anyone know if they will go the codex route with HH?
Those two main books are your army books. Do you really think each single legion will get a dedicated book? That would be 18 books! No one will support such crap in the community. It would be even worse than Bookromunda.
We will get in a couple of months Cults/Militia and Mechanicum. And that´s it. There will be no need to turn your gaming room into a library. This is the main advantage of 30K over 40K: Less factions which warrant more fun.
Oddly enough, however, the instructions on their resin models are completely non-existent. I thought FW assembly diagrams were bad until I got models that have none whatsoever and you have to look at their web site and see where they say two parts go together. It's like they took the huge expense of creating B&W assembly sheets and photocopying them and reinvested into high quality resin casting.
Pretty much true until recently. Picked up a couple of Interemptor sets and was shocked when I opened the box and there was an honest to god, actual instructions booklet with a detailed diagram for each model complete with part numbering.
Yeah I want to be clear - FW support aside from one individual is really good. It's the processes they use to do their casting that aren't great as others have mentioned. They just must not be able to at the scale GW is at. Or different teams have different quality levels. Like, Aeronautica stuff is all better quality than Titanicus stuff. The molds are less full of slips and dings and dents. Maybe just less traffic, not sure.
Nice that they actually showed a model with the new heads this time but sad since until today it alternated between new models and upgrade packs so I expected the Proteus today
Matrindur wrote: Seems like somebody made a mistake and uploaded the plastic Predator trailer
So no Infernus (melta/flamer) or Executioner (plasma/beamer) variants.
Guessing there's gonna be two different weapon sprues with two different boxes, like AT titans (or, for that matter, the two old metal/plastic Predators)
Matrindur wrote: Seems like somebody made a mistake and uploaded the plastic Predator trailer
So no Infernus (melta/flamer) or Executioner (plasma/beamer) variants.
Guessing there's gonna be two different weapon sprues with two different boxes, like AT titans (or, for that matter, the two old metal/plastic Predators)
Yeah, like the Leviathan (did they actually officially announce that?)
Matrindur wrote: Seems like somebody made a mistake and uploaded the plastic Predator trailer
So no Infernus (melta/flamer) or Executioner (plasma/beamer) variants.
Not that we’ve seen so far. But remember the Leviathan was shown off with limited weapons, so there may be a further Predator kit coming too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And hopefully we’ll get more infantry options soon too. Assault Squad at least would be nice. Love me some tanks and Dreads, but we still need a decent suite of infantry for game variety.
Man the entitlement is real. Can't be happy with one vehicle kit containing half the turret options and all the sponson options, when before you had a choice of two per set on both counts.
I'm gonna need three with all of the choom cannons.
I'm trying to see if there's a pattern - the Contemptor will have all of it's options in the box (like the Kratos) while the Leviathan looks like it's split into a shooty kit and a puchy kit. Will we end up with three Predator kits, or are they going to combine the Infernus / Executioner? Will the Vindicator kit have both the Demolisher Cannon and Laser Destroyer? What about the Sicaran variants?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And hopefully we’ll get more infantry options soon too. Assault Squad at least would be nice.
Ah jeez so it's not even that those upgrades are available this weekend? It's just a reveal. I'm going to stop trying to follow releases. Just annoying.
Gert wrote: Man the entitlement is real. Can't be happy with one vehicle kit containing half the turret options and all the sponson options, when before you had a choice of two per set on both counts.
I didn't hear people being unhappy, just discussing the possibility that it might be the situation.
As for me, it looks cool I guess, basically what I was expecting. I've always liked Predators since I started back in 2nd edition but never had the money to buy the metal turreted versions.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Ah jeez so it's not even that those upgrades are available this weekend? It's just a reveal. I'm going to stop trying to follow releases. Just annoying.
FWIW - My local GW manager thinks they're going to do a wave/bulk release every few months rather than dripping stuff out.
I've seen no complaints, only observations. I'm personally very fine with a tank box having only, like, 5 main turret options. Beats the 1 per box we had when I was a teen.
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